ML19031C835
| ML19031C835 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Pilgrim |
| Issue date: | 02/07/2019 |
| From: | John Lamb Special Projects and Process Branch |
| To: | |
| Lamb J, NRR/DORL/LSPB, 301-415-3100 | |
| References | |
| EPID L-2018-LLL-0031, NRC-0051 | |
| Download: ML19031C835 (127) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Public Meeting on Pilgrim Post-Shutdown Decommissioning Activities Report Docket Number: (n/a) [50-293]
Location: Plymouth, Massachusetts Date: Tuesday, January 15, 2019 Work Order No.: NRC-0051 Pages 1-122 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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PUBLIC MEETING ON PILGRIM POST-SHUTDOWN DECOMMISSIONING ACTIVITIES REPORT
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TUESDAY, JANUARY 15, 2019
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PLYMOUTH, MASSACHUSETTS
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The meeting was convened in Room A, Hotel 1620, 18 Water Street, Plymouth, MA, at 6:00 p.m.,
Bruce Watson, chairman, presiding.
NRC STAFF:
DONNA JANDA, Facilitator BRETT KLUKAN, Facilitator JOHN LAMB, Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation BRUCE WATSON, Office of Nuclear Material Safety and Safeguards ALSO PRESENT:
ANNETTE VIETTI-COOK, Secretary of the Commission MARIAN ZOBLER, General Counsel NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 CONTENTS Call to Order and Opening Remarks..................3 Bruce Watson NRC's Decommissioning Experience.................. 5 Bruce Watson Pilgrim Decommissioning John Lamb....................................8 Mandy Halter................................14 Andrea Sterdis..............................20 Comments from Elected Officials, Representatives of Elected Officials, or Representatives of Federally-Recognized Tribes Jessica Wong................................27 Rory Clark..................................28 Michael Jackman.............................33 Seth Schofield..............................36 Mary Lampert................................40 Jim Lampert.................................43 Rebecca Chin................................45 Sheila Lynch-Benttinin......................46 Public Comments...................................52 Closing Remarks..................................121 Adjourn..........................................122 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 6:02 p.m.
3 MR. WATSON: Good evening. I'm Bruce 4 Watson, Chief of the Reactor Decommissioning Branch 5 in the Division of Decommissioning, Uranium Recovery, 6 and Waste Programs, and will be chairing tonight's 7 session.
8 Our purpose is to obtain your comments on 9 the Entergy Post-Shutdown Decommissioning Activities 10 Report [PSDAR] and the Holtec license application and 11 the related Post-Shutdown Decommissioning Report 12 associated with it.
13 I would like to highlight [U.S. Nuclear 14 Regulatory Commission] NRC's mission to protect 15 public health and safety, promote the common defense 16 and security, and protect the environment, and our 17 current work related to the regulatory requirements 18 during the decommissioning of power plants.
19 I would like to introduce a few of the 20 NRC staff who will be here to listen to your comments.
21 And hopefully, we, the staff, can collectively answer 22 questions on the decommissioning process. If we 23 can't, we'll do our best to get back to you.
24 So, you've met Brett, our Region I 25 Counselor, who will be facilitating tonight's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 meeting, along with Donna Janda, also from Region I.
2 Also in attendance is John Lamb, the current Project 3 Manager for Pilgrim. Amy Snyder is here, who will 4 be the Decommissioning Project Manager when the plant 5 shuts down and is transferred over to our 6 organization.
7 Also in attendance is Mike Dusaniwsky, 8 our Senior Economist; Jason Piotter, Senior Engineer 9 in our Spent Fuel Management Group; Jessie Quintero, 10 our Environmental Review Specialist, and Ray Powell, 11 our Region I Branch Chief that will be inspecting the 12 plant during the decommissioning process. We also 13 have some additional folks in the audience that, if 14 we need to, we can call on them to help us with 15 comments or questions.
16 Next slide, please.
17 This is an NRC Category 3 public meeting 18 to obtain comments on the Entergy PSD[A]R and the 19 Holtec application and their supplemental PSD[A]R 20 that's with it. These documents were made publicly 21 available for comment.
22 The meeting is being transcribed and will 23 be made available for the public to review. There 24 will also be a meeting summary published for the 25 meeting.
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5 1 We have a planned short presentation by 2 John Lamb, who will discuss the PSD[A]R process and 3 the license review process. Then, Entergy and Holtec 4 will be giving short presentations. Speaking for 5 Entergy tonight is Mandy Halter -- she is the Director 6 of Nuclear Licensing -- and Andrea Sterdis from 7 Holtec, who from also the Comprehensive 8 Decommissioning International, who is a Vice 9 President of Regulatory Programs, Environment and 10 Safety.
11 After those presentations, we will turn 12 the meeting over to Brett and Donna, who will begin 13 the process to allow speakers to provide comments.
14 It is my full intention, if we can, to end this 15 meeting at 9:00 p.m.
16 I also want to emphasize that this 17 meeting is to discuss the upcoming permanent shutdown 18 of the Pilgrim Plant and the decommissioning process 19 associated with it.
20 Next slide, please.
21 Now I want to just discuss a little bit 22 of our decommissioning experience. We have many 23 years of decommissioning experience. We have over 24 21 years' experience with our current decommissioning 25 regulations and have completed over 80 complex NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 material decommissionings and terminated those 2 licenses. They have all been released for 3 unrestricted use by the owner. So, they can be used 4 for any future purpose. And included in that 80 is 5 10 nuclear power plants.
6 Next slide, please.
7 On this slide is a picture of Yankee Rowe.
8 It's located here in Rowe, Massachusetts. It's one 9 of the 10 plants that was decommissioned. We 10 terminated the license in 2007. Pictured on the left 11 is the plant when it was in operation. Pictured on 12 the right is where the plant was greenfielded by the 13 utility associated with the requirements set up with 14 the State. The NRC does not require site restoration 15 as part of our process.
16 One of the things that I want to point 17 out to you is that, on the picture on the right there 18 is a hydroelectric dam that's been there for over 100 19 years. As you note, the nuclear plant operated, was 20 decommissioned, and is gone. However, on the hill 21 in the center there is a picture of the dry fuel 22 storage facility that is still located on their site 23 and under license, and will continue to be inspected 24 by our inspectors. Of course, the spent fuel is 25 there awaiting the final disposition of the high-NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 level waste disposal, either interim or final 2 repository, here in the U.S.
3 Next slide, please.
4 I wanted to just briefly discuss the two 5 decommissioning options discussed in the November 6 200[1]8 submittals. Regardless of the option chosen, 7 preparation of the decommissioning takes about one to 8 two years to remove the radioactive waste stored 9 onsite, remove filters, resins; drain systems to 10 allow the dismantling to begin and be done safely or 11 placed in storage. After the decommissioning 12 preparation period, the licensee can go into either 13 DECON or SAFSTOR.
14 DECON, or a prompt decommissioning, the 15 licensee begins the decommissioning activities and 16 usually transfer the spent fuel to dry storage. Past 17 experience has shown that decommissioning typically 18 takes seven to ten years to complete.
19 With SAFSTOR, the plant is placed in 20 storage -- we like to call it, it's cold and 21 dark -- until the licensee decides to dismantle and 22 decommission the plant. In SAFSTOR, the NRC will 23 continue to inspect the plants at least annually and 24 more frequently when decommissioning activities are 25 performed.
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8 1 Regardless of the decommissioning option 2 chosen, the NRC regulations require that the 3 decommissioning be completed in 60 years.
4 Next slide, please.
5 A few reminders. We are here to listen 6 to your comments on the Pilgrim decommissioning.
7 This is part of the process we've set up and it's 8 intended to hear your comments, so we can consider 9 those in our review of both the PSD[A]R from Entergy 10 and, also, the license application and the PSD[A]R 11 that supplements it from Holtec.
12 The meeting, again, is being transcribed, 13 and the transcript will be publicly available. A 14 meeting summary will be published and would be 15 publicly available.
16 And we will do our best to answer your 17 questions, where we can. There's going to be 18 possibly some that we can't answer, but we do our 19 best to get back to you.
20 I'm going to introduce John. John Lamb 21 is going to sit down and speak.
22 MR. LAMB: Yes.
23 MR. WATSON: Okay. Thank you.
24 MR. LAMB: Hi. Good evening. My name 25 is John Lamb. I am the Project Manager for Pilgrim NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 1 at NRC Headquarters in Rockville. I've been working 2 for the NRC for 19 years, and prior to that, I worked 3 15 years in the power plant.
4 Next slide, please.
5 In accordance with the NRC regulations, 6 a Post-Shutdown Decommissioning Activities Report, or 7 PSDAR, must be submitted to the NRC, and a copy to 8 the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, prior to or within 9 two years following the permanent cessation of 10 operations of Pilgrim. Entergy submitted the Pilgrim 11 PSDAR on November 16th, 2018.
12 A PSDAR must contain a description of the 13 planned decommissioning activities, along with a 14 schedule for their accomplishment and a site-specific 15 decommissioning cost estimate, including the 16 projected cost of managing irradiated fuel.
17 The NRC staff uses a Regulatory Guide 18 that provides guidance on the content and format of 19 PSDARs. The Regulatory Guide is available to the 20 public as noted on this slide.
21 Decommissioning activities must not 22 endanger the public health and safety or result in 23 significant environmental impacts not previously 24 reviewed.
25 Next slide.
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10 1 A PSDAR must contain a discussion that 2 provides the reasons for concluding that the 3 environmental impacts associated with site-specific 4 decommissioning activities will be bounded by 5 appropriate previously-issued Environmental Impact 6 Statements. Therefore, during the environmental 7 review of a PSDAR, the NRC uses various previous staff 8 reports to determine whether the environmental 9 impacts from decommissioning are bounded by these 10 reports. For instance, for Pilgrim, the NRC staff 11 will use a generic Environmental Impact Statement 12 regarding decommissioning and will also look at 13 previous Environmental Impact Statements developed 14 specifically for Pilgrim, such as the Environmental 15 Impact Statement developed for the renewal of the 16 Pilgrim operating license. The NRC staff will also 17 rely on findings from its inspection program.
18 Next slide, please.
19 The request for comment and meeting 20 notice for the Pilgrim PSDAR was published in The 21 Federal Register on December 21st, 2018. The 90-day 22 comment period ends on March 21st, 2019.
23 The NRC staff will notify the licensee if 24 the staff needs additional information to support its 25 review of the PSDAR. The NRC staff will document its NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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11 1 PSDAR review in a letter to the licensee and will 2 address the comments received during the comment 3 period.
4 After the submission of the Pilgrim 5 PSDAR, the NRC regulations require that Entergy shall 6 notify the NRC in writing and send a copy to the 7 Commonwealth of Massachusetts before performing any 8 decommissioning activity inconsistent with or making 9 a significant schedule change from those actions and 10 schedules described in the PSDAR.
11 Next slide, please.
12 By letter dated November 16[t]h, 2018, 13 Entergy and Holtec submitted a license transfer 14 application requesting that the license for Pilgrim 15 be transferred from Entergy to Holtec. Before this 16 transfer may be completed, the NRC must determine 17 that Holtec is qualified to be the holder of the 18 Pilgrim license.
19 In order to make this determination, the 20 NRC staff reviews the following five areas:
21 financial qualifications; decommissioning funding 22 assurance; foreign ownership, control, and 23 domination; technical qualifications, and insurance 24 and indemnity. If the NRC finds that Holtec is 25 qualified in these areas, then it would approve the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 license transfer by an order and issue a conforming 2 license amendment.
3 Next slide, please.
4 License transfer applications are noticed 5 in The Federal Register, and the public can request 6 a hearing and/or provide comments on the application.
7 The program [Pilgrim] license transfer application is 8 ready for publication in The Federal Register.
9 However, The Federal Register is currently impacted 10 by the partial federal government shutdown.
11 Therefore, the Pilgrim license transfer federal 12 registration notification will not be published until 13 after the partial federal government shutdown ends.
14 Once this Federal Register notice is published, there 15 will be a 20-day hearing period, and then, a 30-day 16 comment period.
17 License transfer applications typically 18 contain proprietary information. A redacted, 19 nonproprietary version of the Pilgrim license 20 transfer application is available to the public and 21 can be found online through the NRC's electronic 22 library called ADAMS. The proprietary version can 23 be requested using a process that will be described 24 in The Federal Register notice.
25 Next slide, please.
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13 1 By letter dated November 16th, 2018, 2 Holtec submitted a proposed revised PSDAR for 3 Pilgrim. The Holtec PSDAR is a supplement to the 4 license transfer application, and therefore, is part 5 of the license transfer application action, and not 6 part of the Entergy PSDAR action. The Holtec PSDAR 7 is contingent upon the approval of the licensed 8 transfer application and the equity sale closure.
9 For purposes of this public meeting, the NRC will be 10 accepting comments on both the Entergy PSDAR action 11 and the license transfer application, which includes 12 the proposed Holtec PSDAR.
13 Next slide, please.
14 Holtec also submitted a request for an 15 exemption from the NRC's Decommissioning Trust Fund 16 requirements in an enclosure to the license transfer 17 application. If this request were to be granted, 18 then Holtec would be allowed to use the Pilgrim 19 Decommissioning Trust Fund not only for radiological 20 decommissioning expenses, but also for expenses 21 related to spent fuel management activities and site 22 restoration activities. Like the Holtec PSDAR, this 23 exemption request is contingent upon the approval of 24 the license transfer application and the equity sale 25 closure.
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14 1 Next slide, please.
2 Comments regarding the Entergy PSDAR can 3 be submitted on regulations.gov website under Docket 4 ID NRC-2018-0286 until March 21st, 2019. Comments 5 regarding the license transfer application can be 6 submitted during tonight's public meeting. Once the 7 license transfer application is noticed in The 8 Federal Register, then comments can be submitted on 9 the regulations.gov website under Docket ID 10 NRC-2018-0279 for a period of 30 days for comments, 11 and a hearing can be requested for a period of 20 12 days.
13 Next slide, please.
14 This slide shows where to mail comments 15 regarding Entergy PSDAR or the license transfer 16 application. Please remember to use the Docket ID 17 associated with each application.
18 That concludes my presentation. I'll 19 turn it back over to Bruce.
20 MR. WATSON: Okay. Our next speaker is 21 Mandy Halter from Entergy.
22 MS. HALTER: Good evening. My name is 23 Mandy Halter, and I'm the Director of Nuclear 24 Licensing for Entergy Nuclear. With me tonight is 25 Mike Twomey, the Vice President of External Affairs NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 for Entergy Wholesale Commodities. I appreciate the 2 opportunity to be here tonight to provide you 3 information on Entergy's plans to decommission the 4 Pilgrim Nuclear Power Station.
5 2019 is a significant year for Entergy, 6 for Pilgrim, and for this area. On May 31st of this 7 year, Pilgrim will permanently cease power 8 operations. In June, we will certify to the NRC that 9 the reactor is permanently shut down and defueled.
10 Also in June, Pilgrim will complete its first staffing 11 reduction, as we transition the organizational 12 structure to support Pilgrim's SAFSTOR 13 decommissioning plan. Throughout the final months 14 of plant operation, and as we transition to 15 decommissioning, we remain committed to safety, 16 health, and security of the plant, its employees, and 17 you, the public.
18 Next slide. Next slide, please. Thank 19 you.
20 The Entergy Post-Shutdown 21 Decommissioning Activities Report, or PSDAR, was 22 submitted to the NRC on November 16th, 2018, and 23 outlines our plan to use the SAFSTOR decommissioning 24 strategy. Our PSDAR was prepared by a team of 25 experts, in accordance with regulations, NRC NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 1 guidance, and a thorough review of PSDARs submitted 2 to the NRC by plants in decommissioning.
3 The Pilgrim PSDAR contains a description 4 of our planned decommissioning activities as well as 5 a schedule for their completion, an estimate of the 6 cost, and a discussion of the environmental impacts 7 of these activities. And I will provide more 8 information in the following slides.
9 Next slide, please.
10 The majority of the dormancy period of 11 our SAFSTOR plan will involve all spent fuel in dry 12 fuel storage. This slide shows our plan to achieve 13 the dry fuel storage [dormancy] storm and sea state 14 by the end of 2022. Along the way, Pilgrim will make 15 adjustments to its staffing levels and the emergency 16 plan, in accordance with appropriate regulatory 17 approvals, based on the status of the fuel and the 18 corresponding decreasing risk of offsite radiological 19 consequences from an accident.
20 Next slide, please.
21 Under the SAFSTOR methodology, we will 22 maintain and monitor Pilgrim in a dormancy period to 23 allow for the radioactive decay of the plant, followed 24 by the dismantlement and decontamination to permit 25 NRC license termination within 60 years, as required NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 1 by regulations. Under Entergy's plan, radiological 2 decontamination and dismantlement will occur safely 3 by the year 2079. We plan to restore the site 4 following license termination.
5 Next slide, please.
6 In accordance with regulations, we 7 developed a site-specific estimate of the costs for 8 the planned SAFSTOR decommissioning activities at 9 Pilgrim. This cost estimate was developed by a 10 leading expert using up-to-date and best available 11 data. In addition to estimating the costs associated 12 with license termination, we also estimated the cost 13 associated with spent fuel management and site 14 restoration. Our SAFSTOR decommissioning cost 15 estimate for Pilgrim is included as an attachment to 16 the Entergy PSDAR.
17 Next slide, please.
18 The site-specific decommissioning cost 19 estimate submitted to the NRC in November 2018 was 20 reported using 2018 dollars and up-to-date 2018 21 pricing information. The total estimated cost 22 associated with license termination as well as spent 23 fuel management and site restoration for Pilgrim is 24 $1.66 billion. We will periodically update the 25 decommissioning cost estimate throughout the SAFSTOR NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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18 1 period, in accordance with regulations.
2 It is very important to note that we are 3 required by regulation, as the owner of the plant, to 4 demonstrate reasonable assurance that there are 5 adequate funds available to cover the cost of license 6 termination. We provide this funding for Pilgrim 7 through a Nuclear Decommissioning Trust Fund, which, 8 as reported to the NRC and the PSDAR, was funded at 9 $1.05 billion at the end of October 2018. Accounting 10 for the growth of these funds over time, as permitted 11 by NRC methodology, the Pilgrim nuclear 12 decommissioning trust balance does not provide 13 financial assurance for the decommissioning costs of 14 our SAFSTOR plan.
15 Next slide, please.
16 We have concluded that the environmental 17 impacts associated with planned SAFSTOR 18 decommissioning activities at Pilgrim are less than, 19 and are bounded by, impacts addressed in previously-20 issued Environmental Impact Statements. A more 21 detailed discussion of the reasons for our conclusion 22 is included in the PSDAR.
23 Next slide, please.
24 In November 2018, we filed an updated 25 Pilgrim Spent Fuel Management Plan with the NRC which NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 1 outlines our intent to store all spent fuel on a new, 2 larger, independent spent fuel storage installation 3 pad which will be located at a higher elevation on 4 the program site. This pad, which we plan to 5 construct by the end of 2020, will store a total of 6 61 casks, including the 17 casks that are on the 7 current pad, as well as 44 additional casks which are 8 needed to store the fuel that is currently in the 9 reactor vessel and the spent fuel pool.
10 Next slide, please.
11 In November 2018, Entergy and Holtec 12 submitted a request to the NRC to transfer the control 13 of Pilgrim's plant and [Independent Spent Fuel 14 Storage Installation] ISFSI licenses from Entergy to 15 Holtec. If approved by the NRC, the license transfer 16 will allow for prompt decommissioning under Holtec's 17 plan, which is different than Entergy's plan.
18 Specifically, Holtec plans to decommission Pilgrim 19 using a DECON or immediate dismantlement strategy by 20 approximately 2024. Additionally, Holtec intends to 21 move all spent fuel to dry fuel storage on the new 22 pad by the end of 2021. Following this presentation, 23 Andrea Sterdis will provide more information on 24 Holtec's decommissioning plans for Pilgrim.
25 A major benefit of decommissioning under NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 1 Holtec's plan is that it will allow for earlier 2 release of portions of the Pilgrim site for reuse.
3 We have requested that the NRC review and approve the 4 license transfer application by May 31st of this year.
5 We know that this is an aggressive review schedule 6 for the staff and we are certain that the NRC will 7 conduct a very diligent review, and we expect nothing 8 less. The intent behind this requested timeline is 9 to provide certainty to the plant employees and to 10 the citizens of Plymouth and the surrounding areas on 11 plant ownership as well as the decommissioning plan 12 and timeline following plant shutdown.
13 Next slide, please.
14 More information about Pilgrim's plans 15 for decommissioning as well as our related submittals 16 that we have provided to the NRC are publicly 17 available on our website, www.pilgrimpower.com.
18 I thank you for your time. And a number 19 of us are here from Entergy, and we look forward to 20 answering your questions later in the evening. Thank 21 you.
22 MR. WATSON: Thank you for your 23 presentation.
24 Our next presentation is by Andrea 25 Sterdis from Holtec International and CDI, I believe NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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21 1 it's called.
2 MS. STERDIS: Thank you, Bruce.
3 Good evening. I really appreciate the 4 opportunity to provide you all with a brief overview 5 of the Post-Shutdown Decommissioning Activities 6 Report that has been prepared to show the Holtec plan 7 for initiating plant decommissioning following NRC 8 approval of the license transfer application, 9 execution of the license transfers, and completion of 10 the sale closure.
11 Next slide, please.
12 On this slide, you can see that I am up 13 here providing the presentation. I'm Andrea Sterdis.
14 I'm the Vice President for Regulatory Programs, 15 Environment and Safety for Comprehensive 16 [De]Commissioning International. I am joined tonight 17 by Joy Russell, Senior Vice President for Holtec 18 International.
19 Next slide.
20 On November 16th, 2018, Holtec submitted 21 a revised Post-Shutdown Decommissioning Activities 22 Report, or PSDAR, based on their plan to initiate 23 prompt DECON. Our PSDAR for DECON includes a 24 description of the planned activities, specifically 25 the activities that are required to initiate that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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22 1 prompt DECON and complete it. It also includes a 2 planned DECON decommissioning schedule and a cost 3 estimate reflecting that schedule and the DECON plan.
4 Lastly, it includes a discussion of the environmental 5 impacts for the specific activities that will be 6 performed during the execution of the dismantlement 7 and the waste removal from the site to complete the 8 radiological decommissioning.
9 The PSDAR was prepared in accordance with 10 NRC regulations and addresses NRC guidance. It was 11 prepared by a team that is experienced in planning, 12 estimating, and executing nuclear power plant 13 decommissioning. It was also informed by a review 14 of previously-submitted PSDARs, as well as 15 particularly a review and an alignment with the 16 assumptions that were provided and used in the Entergy 17 SAFSTOR PSDAR. The DECON PSDAR is contingent upon NRC 18 approval of the license transfer, execution of the 19 transfers of the license, and completion of the sale.
20 Next slide, please.
21 The DECON PSDAR reflects Holtec's plan to 22 promptly start decommissioning activities following 23 the license transfer and sales closure. The schedule 24 reflects the project goal to achieve partial site 25 release within eight years.
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23 1 The decommissioning cost estimate 2 reflects DECON activities and schedule for completing 3 radiological decommissioning, managing the spent 4 fuel, and completing site restoration activities.
5 The environmental evaluation considers 6 the DECON activities and provides evidence that those 7 activities are bounded by the existing Environmental 8 Impact Statements that are applicable to the Pilgrim 9 site, including the NRC generic Environmental Impact 10 Statement for Decommissioning as well as the Pilgrim 11 Site License Renewal Environmental Impact Statement.
12 If you look at the SAFSTOR PSDAR and 13 compare the decommissioning cost estimate with that 14 provided in our PSDAR for DECON, you will see some 15 differences. Those differences are primarily driven 16 by two reasons. First, the core business for Entergy 17 in the current time is to provide and generate 18 power/electricity. The core business for Holtec, 19 including CDI, is managing spent fuel and executing 20 decommissioning projects. And therefore, the Holtec 21 team has the latest technology, the engineering 22 expertise, and the project management expertise to 23 apply cost- and time-effective methods for 24 decommissioning, resulting in a difference in the 25 decommissioning cost.
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24 1 In addition, the DECON plan eliminates 2 the transition to the dormant state, maintaining that 3 plant dormant state for almost 40 years, and the 4 transition to reactivate the plant and complete the 5 dismantlement and waste removal activities about 40 6 years down the road.
7 It's important to note that the SAFSTOR 8 dismantlement and waste removal schedule and the 9 DECON dismantlement and waste removal schedule are 10 similar in duration. The difference is the prompt 11 DECON one modeled in our PSDAR is initiated 12 immediately after license transfer in 2019 and 13 completes in approximately five years.
14 On the next slide, please.
15 The schedule provided in the DECON PSDAR 16 assumes that the NRC will approve the license transfer 17 application in time to support a July 31st transfer 18 of the licenses and sale closure. This slide 19 provides some key assumptions that drove the schedule 20 that's included in that PSDAR, starting with the fact 21 that we've assumed an initiation of decontamination 22 and dismantlement activities in 2019 following the 23 license transfer. It also assumes that the newest 24 ISFSI pad construction is completed and the pad is 25 available for use in 2020. It assumes that the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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25 1 offloading of the spent fuel transitioning the site 2 from a combined wet and dry spent fuel storage site 3 to a dry fuel storage site only occurs by the fourth 4 quarter of 2021.
5 Similar to the SAFSTOR PSDAR schedule 6 submitted by Entergy, our DECON PSDAR schedule 7 assumes that the [Department of Energy] DOE completes 8 the spent fuel removal from the site in the 2062 time 9 period. The DECON PSDAR schedule shows radiological 10 decommission, except for the independent spent fuel 11 storage installation, ISFSI, is accomplished within 12 approximately five years following the license 13 transfer and sale closure. It also assumes that site 14 restoration activities, which are not required for 15 the partial site release approval by the NRC, are 16 continuing beyond that approximately one year.
17 Next slide, please.
18 The Holtec DCE, or decommissioning cost 19 estimate, that's included in the DECON PSDAR results 20 in approximately $1.134 billion cost in 2018 dollars.
21 The Nuclear Decommissioning Trust Fund for Pilgrim is 22 currently valued at $1.05 billion as of October 31st, 23 2018. The cash flow analyses that were submitted as 24 part of the license transfer application as well as 25 the DECON PSDAR and decommissioning cost estimate NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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26 1 demonstrate that the Pilgrim Nuclear Decommissioning 2 Trust Fund contains sufficient funds to cover our 3 plan for radiological decommissioning, spent fuel 4 management, and site restoration.
5 It's important to note that, pursuant to 6 NRC regulations, we will be required, as the licensee, 7 to prepare and submit an annual report that provides 8 the Nuclear Decommissioning Trust [NDT] Fund status, 9 including expenses and activities executed in the 10 previous year, the remaining NDT balance, and showing 11 financial assurance that the balance can address and 12 cover the remaining costs of all the activities 13 required to complete the license termination. This 14 is a public report and is made available each year by 15 the NRC.
16 With that, I'd like to thank you for your 17 time, and I'd like to thank the NRC for this meeting.
18 Thank you.
19 MR. WATSON: Thank you, Andrea.
20 Before I turn the meeting over to Brett 21 and Donna to facilitate the comment session, I would 22 like to invite any elected officials or their 23 representatives or any Native American tribe 24 representations to make statements if you're 25 available now. So, if you would, those that are NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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27 1 interested, please come up to the microphone and state 2 your name for the record.
3 MR. KLUKAN: So, we actually have a 4 couple who have preregistered with us, and we are 5 going to go down through that list. And then, we'll 6 open it up to those who did not preregister.
7 So, first up, we're going to have Ms.
8 Jessica Wong from the Office of Senator Elizabeth 9 Warren.
10 MS. WONG: Good Evening. Thank you. As 11 Brad said, my name is Jessica. I am from Senator 12 Elizabeth Warren's office, and I'm her Regional 13 Director.
14 So, Senator Warren reiterates her deep 15 concerns with the consistently poor public safety 16 record at Pilgrim Nuclear Power Station and the 17 Nuclear Regulatory Commission's pattern of ignoring 18 critical discrepancies in Entergy's safety measures 19 that put Massachusetts residents at risk. This 20 cannot continue, especially as the NRC reviews the 21 license transfer for the decommissioning from Entergy 22 to Holtec International. To date, she has sent six 23 letters to the NRC expressing these concerns, most 24 recently in October, following the reports of 25 unplanned shutdowns due to problems with equipment.
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28 1 Entergy cannot continue to use the 2 summer's planned shutdown as an excuse to avoid much-3 needed safety upgrades that protect our communities.
4 Senator Warren urges the company to prioritize the 5 people of southeastern Massachusetts over its 6 profits.
7 Similarly, the NRC can no longer shirk 8 its responsibilities to establish and enforce proper 9 safety standards. The Senator, once again, calls on 10 the NRC to require Entergy to immediately comply with 11 federal safety standards, and if they refuse to do 12 so, then the NRC must take necessary steps to shut 13 down the plant.
14 Thank you.
15 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you very much.
16 Next, we will have Ms. Rory Clark from 17 the Office of Senator Ed Markey.
18 MS. CLARK: Thank you for having me. As 19 you said, I'm Rory Clark. I'm Senator Markey's 20 Regional Director. I'll be reading a statement on 21 Senator Markey's behalf.
22 "I've long been concerned about Pilgrim's 23 safety and operating record and its management's 24 history of cutting corners at the expense of increased 25 risk to Massachusetts residents. As we turn our NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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29 1 attention now to the details of the Post-Shutdown 2 Decommissioning Activities Reports submitted by 3 Entergy and Holtec International, I must remind the 4 Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Entergy, and Holtec 5 that the people of Massachusetts will settle for 6 nothing less than the most stringent safety measures.
7 "As the federal regulatory body 8 overseeing the decommissioning process, we all expect 9 the NRC will review both Entergy and Holtec's proposed 10 decommissioning plans with the utmost of care and 11 caution. The safety of Massachusetts residents 12 demands this thorough review.
13 "Plans for the ownership and 14 decommissioning of Pilgrim must prioritize safety ans 15 [and] security. The NRC must evaluate both Entergy 16 and Holtec's PSDARs to ensure that each provides a 17 comprehensive accounting of how that owner will 18 assume responsibility for safe operations, improve 19 upon the abysmal safety record at Pilgrim, and finance 20 the complete decommissioning process.
21 "I understand that it's common practice 22 for the NRC to issue exemptions that would limit the 23 required emergency planning zone when the plant 24 begins the decommissioning process, but I must urge 25 the NRC to require Pilgrim's owner, be it Entergy or NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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30 1 Holtec, to work with local communities to maintain 2 and fund the significant emergency planning zone and 3 ensure that local communities are prepared for any 4 eventuality.
5 "Last year I was proud to cosponsor the 6 Safe and Secure Decommissioning Act which would 7 prohibit the NRC from issuing waivers or granting 8 exemptions from complying with safety and emergency 9 preparedness regulations put forth in the Atomic 10 Energy Act of 1954 until nuclear fuel had been 11 transferred to spent nuclear fuel dry casks. I will 12 continue to push for all parties involved in the 13 decommissioning of Pilgrim to abide by such 14 standards.
15 "As we are all aware, this region is home 16 to fierce nor'easter storms and rising tides, posing 17 safety concerns that other nuclear facilities around 18 the country do not have to contend with. Especially 19 given this region's harsh environmental conditions, 20 the NRC should ensure the completion of a full 21 National Environmental Policy Act analysis that would 22 exam the effect of the proposed decommissioning plans 23 on the environment and allow for additional public 24 involvement.
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31 1 provide thorough plans for communicating regularly 2 with the public and local stakeholders throughout the 3 decommissioning process. This communication is 4 essential to ensure that all members of the community 5 understand how Pilgrim will be safely decommissioned 6 and foster confidence that security measures satisfy 7 federal safety standards and community expectations.
8 "I was proud to be an original cosponsor 9 of additional legislation in 2018 entitled `The 10 Nuclear Plant Decommissioning Act,' which would 11 ensure the states and local communities have a 12 meaningful role in the crafting and preparation of 13 decommissioning plans for retired nuclear plants 14 located in our community. This bill also requires 15 the NRC to publicly and transparently approve or 16 reject every proposed decommissioning plan, which it 17 currently is not required to do.
18 "I will be introducing the Dry Cask 19 Storage Act this session, which would ensure every 20 nuclear reactor operator must be compelled to comply 21 with an NRC-approved plan that would require the safe 22 removal of spent nuclear fuel from spent nuclear fuel 23 pools and placed that fuel into dry cask storage 24 within seven years of the time that the plan is 25 submitted to the NRC. This bill would further NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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32 1 provide funding to help reactor licensees implement 2 these plans and would expand the emergency planning 3 zone for all noncompliant reactor operators to 50 4 miles.
5 "As we consider tonight the shutdown 6 process for Pilgrim, Entergy and Holtec must provide 7 conclusive proof that there are sufficient funds 8 available in the Nuclear Decommissioning Trust to 9 decommission Pilgrim in a safe and secure manner. It 10 will be unacceptable for Entergy or Holtec to demand 11 additional money from Massachusetts ratepayers to 12 complete the decommissioning process at Pilgrim.
13 There can be no second chances here.
14 "Historical data and NRC guidelines 15 indicate that the decommissioning costs are likely to 16 increase faster that [than] inflation. Entergy and 17 Holtec must each account for that fact or find a way 18 to clearly rebut it. Given the amount currently 19 available in the Trust Fund, the NRC must carefully 20 assess if the proposed decommissioning timeline is 21 achievable in a safe and secure manner and require 22 there is reasonable public assurance of available 23 funds for the totality of the process. Additionally, 24 as the proposed license transfer will further strain 25 the NRC's resources, it is imperative that the NRC NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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33 1 assign additional staff to work on these issues and 2 charge the licensees for their salaries.
3 "In the recent past, I have also 4 expressed my concerns to the NRC regarding the draft 5 decommissioning rule currently awaiting review, which 6 is intended to provide clear guidelines for all plants 7 that are undergoing the decommissioning process.
8 This proposal falls far short of the NRC's stated 9 goals of providing for a safe, effective, and 10 efficient decommissioning process for nuclear plants.
11 In its current form, this fails to propose a 12 comprehensive set of decommissioning and cleanup 13 regulations, would result in the automatic approval 14 of facilities' exemptions from safety, security, and 15 emergency planning regulations, and would continue to 16 rubberstamp the industry's Post-Shutdown 17 Decommissioning Activities Report. I continue to 18 urge the NRC to reject this draft and, instead, write 19 a rule that will affirmatively guide plants and 20 communities through the decommissioning process.
21 "Thank you."
22 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you very much.
23 Next, we will have Mr. Michael Jackman of 24 the Office of Congressman Bill Keating.
25 MR. JACKMAN: Thank you.
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34 1 I do have a statement from the 2 Congressman I'd like to read, but before I do that, 3 I have just some housekeeping questions. The slide 4 presentations that were made tonight, are those 5 available online or will they be available online?
6 MR. KLUKAN: For the record, yes, they 7 will be available online on the NRC's website.
8 MR. JACKMAN: Okay. Only because I think 9 if people want to make comments both on the PSDAR and 10 the license transfer, there's a lot of good 11 information in there. Thank you.
12 "Thank you for the opportunity to address 13 you at tonight's public meeting. Unfortunately, the 14 House voting schedule prevents me from being here in 15 person, but I wanted to restate my opinion that, as 16 we draw closer to the cessation of operations at 17 Pilgrim, the rigorous scrutiny of the operations at 18 the plant must continue. Entergy must not be allowed 19 to languish in column 4, representing the minimum 20 level of operational safety for the remainder of its 21 life as a power generating plant.
22 "In addition, the NRC must scrutinize 23 Entergy's and Holtec's Post-Shutdown Decommissioning 24 Activities Reports to ensure that the health and 25 safety of Massachusetts residents is not at risk.
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35 1 The NRC must enforce its regulations and require the 2 licensee to adhere to the most stringent standards 3 for facility security, cybersecurity for all the 4 plant systems, structural integrity of the onsite dry 5 cask storage system, and mitigation of environmental 6 hazards.
7 "In addition, decommissioning activities 8 must be fully funded by the licensee, and the NRC 9 must do all it can to ensure that taxpayers, be they 10 residents of Plymouth, the Commonwealth of 11 Massachusetts, or the United States of America, are 12 not left to shoulder the burden of the cost of the 13 cleanup of the Pilgrim site.
14 "Given the real prospect of ongoing 15 nuclear waste storage here in Plymouth, it is 16 incumbent upon all levels of government to work 17 together to ensure the safety of our residents. It 18 is imperative that those residents and residents of 19 all affected communities in Plymouth County, the 20 Cape, and the islands are included in the discussion 21 and decisions involved with the decommissioning 22 process.
23 "The Plymouth Town Select Board, the 24 State legislative delegation, the Nuclear 25 Decommissioning Citizens Advisory Panel, private NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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36 1 groups like Pilgrim Watch and Cape Downwinders, and 2 many other concerned individuals and groups, all have 3 been engaged in this vital discussion over the years, 4 and they all deserve to have their input heard and 5 incorporated into the decisionmaking process. I am 6 proud to have cosponsored legislation, which I've 7 already referred to, the Nuclear Plant 8 Decommissioning Act, that will do just that.
9 "I applaud all those preset tonight for 10 sharing their perspectives, and I will continue to 11 fight to make sure that your voices are heard. Thank 12 you."
13 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you very much.
14 Next, we will have Mr. Seth Schofield 15 from the Massachusetts Attorney General's Office.
16 MR. SCHOFIELD: Thank you, Brett.
17 Good evening. I'm Seth Schofield, Senior 18 Appellate Counsel and Assistant Attorney General in 19 the Energy and Environment Bureau of the Office of 20 Attorney General Maura Healey.
21 First, I'd like to thank the Nuclear 22 Regulatory Commission for coming to Plymouth tonight, 23 so that the public has an opportunity to voice their 24 thoughts and concerns about the power plant and the 25 proposed plans to decommission the plant following NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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37 1 its shutdown this spring.
2 From the Attorney General's perspective, 3 the proposed sale of Pilgrim and the related transfer 4 of Pilgrim's operating license from Entergy to a 5 Holtec subsidiary raise significant health, safety, 6 environmental, and financial concerns for the 7 Commonwealth and its citizens. We appreciate the 8 potential benefits of accelerated decommissioning 9 that forms the basis for the sale and license transfer 10 application, but we currently have serious concerns 11 about whether Pilgrim's Decommissioning Trust Fund 12 contains sufficient funds to cover the performance of 13 all necessary decommissioning, site restoration, and 14 spent fuel management activities on an indefinite 15 basis.
16 As currently proposed, neither Holtec, 17 Pilgrim, LLC, the proposed licensee, nor Holtec 18 Decommissioning International, LLC, the proposed 19 licensed operator, will generate any revenue or bring 20 with them any new assets that could be used to fund 21 and complete site decommissioning, restoration, and 22 spent fuel management activities at the site.
23 Instead, Holtec-Pilgrim and Holtec Decommissioning 24 International's only planned source of funds are the 25 funds currently existing in the Pilgrim Trust Fund, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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38 1 and as currently proposed, there exists no guaranteed 2 add to the parent company of those two single-purpose 3 limited liability companies to compensate for any 4 funding shortfall in the Trust Funds. If there are 5 insufficient funds in the Trust Fund, Holtec would 6 likely default on its obligation and likely leave the 7 Commonwealth and its taxpayers with those 8 obligations, both as the payer of last resort and the 9 party responsible for protecting public safety and 10 the environment for an indefinite period.
11 Based on our preliminary review of the 12 license transfer application and the revised Post-13 Shutdown Decommissioning Activities Report, we have 14 reason to believe that a Trust Fund shortfall could 15 very well occur. For example, Holtec's estimate of 16 what it will cost to decommission, restore, and manage 17 spent fuel at the site is only $3.615 million less 18 than the total amount of money expected to be in the 19 trust. That means there would be insufficient funds 20 to cover any cost overrun in excess of $3.6 million.
21 Past experience, however, including 22 decommissioning experience at other sites in New 23 England, demonstrates that the potential discovery of 24 previously unidentified radiological and non-25 radiological contamination, potential unanticipated NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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39 1 work delays, and other potential problematic events 2 could well drive costs significantly beyond 3 preliminary post-shutdown decommissioning cost 4 estimates.
5 For example, the discovery of 6 strontium-90 during decommissioning at Connecticut 7 Yankee doubled the anticipated decommissioning cost 8 there. The discovery of highly contaminated 9 groundwater during decommissioning at Maine Yankee 10 also increased costs beyond those anticipated to 11 decommission that site. And the discovery of 12 [polychlorinated biphenyl] PCB 13 contamination/radiological groundwater contamination 14 during decommissioning at Yankee Rowe, similarly, 15 caused significant and unanticipated cost increases.
16 Holtec and its partner, SNC-Lavalin, have 17 poor track records on other projects at other sites 18 around the country, which amplifies the 19 Commonwealth's concerns about the potential for cost 20 overruns, delays, and other issues that will both 21 imperil public safety and our environment, while at 22 the same time enhancing the risk of a Trust Fund 23 shortfall that would make matters even worse. For 24 example, the NRC just recently issued a Notice of 25 Violation related to Holtec's mishandling of dry cask NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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40 1 loading and transfer operations at San Onofre Nuclear 2 Generation Station in California, and its failure to 3 timely report that matter to the NRC.
4 Because of the significant risk to the 5 Commonwealth embodied by the pending license transfer 6 proposal, we implore the NRC to join us in closing 7 [closely] scrutinizing the proposal's terms and 8 ensure that substantial financial assurances exist to 9 ensure that those risks are fully addressed. To that 10 end, the Attorney General intends, on behalf of the 11 Commonwealth of Massachusetts, to intervene in the 12 pending license transfer proceeding to articulate 13 these and other concerns for evaluation by the 14 Commission and the imposition of protective 15 safeguards and other conditions with respect to any 16 license transfer.
17 Thank you.
18 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you very much.
19 Next up, we have several authorized 20 representatives from the Board of Selectmen of the 21 Town of Duxbury.
22 MS. M. LAMPERT: Good evening. I'm Mary 23 Lampert, speaking tonight on behalf of the Duxbury 24 Board of Selectmen.
25 The town is very concerned the site will NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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41 1 not be properly cleaned up due to reliance on a 2 [Generic Environmental Impact Statement] GEIS written 3 in 2002 and an [Supplemental Environmental Impact 4 Statement] SEIS written in 2006 that are outdated, 5 incomplete, and ignore new and significant 6 information, and the failure of NRC to require a 7 [National Environmental Policy Act] NEPA analysis, as 8 required by federal law and legal precedent, into 9 insufficient funds in the [Decommissioning Trust 10 Fund] DTF.
11 With respect to the GEIS and SEIS, 12 Duxbury sees no rational basis for NRC to assume that 13 the environmental impacts are bounded by these 14 documents, nor that environmental impacts will be 15 small or that the site is essentially clean. It is 16 not. A few examples:
17 The SEIS incorrectly denies that the 18 National Academy's Biological Effects of Radiation 19 Report, 2006, denies to provide new and significant 20 information from the 1990 report. The 2006 report 21 found mortality rates for women exposed to radiation 22 was 37.5 percent higher than its 1990 report and the 23 impact of allowable radiation standards on workers 24 was twice that estimated in 1990. Therefore, 25 allowable doses need to be reduced from the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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42 1 millirem a year to less than 10 millirem a year, as 2 the State has requested, and reduction in allowable 3 doses to workers. You are obligated to follow the 4 latest scientific information, not go back to 1990.
5 Second, contamination onsite must be 6 updated. In the GEIS and SEIS, NRC didn't lift a 7 shovel. You just relied on the licensees' reports.
8 Their conclusions cannot be relied upon. Pilgrim 9 opened with bad fuel and no off-gas treatment system, 10 and blew its filters in 1982.
11 Where did the contamination go?
12 Hazardous waste is buried onsite, including on the 13 property off the access road. Construction has 14 occurred at the site and the soil buried. What's in 15 that soil? There's a crack in the reactor's torus 16 floor. Soil outside the reactor, beneath it, must 17 be analyzed. The source of tritium levels of 18 monitoring wells is unknown. Other slower-moving 19 radionuclides also are likely to be there, not yet 20 picked up by the monitoring wells. Also, what is 21 leaked from seismic gaps and the condensate system?
22 Again, who knows? It's not in the 2002 report. It's 23 not in the SEIS written in 2006.
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43 1 considered. The PSDAR's assumptions that spent fuel 2 will be offsite by 2062 cannot be accepted by NRC.
3 Entergy relied on DOE for its projections, but DOE 4 qualified its projections. Entergy and Holtec did 5 not.
6 PSDAR cost estimates and plans to ensure 7 the long-term integrity of the casks must be revised 8 to provide a contingency fund for long-term storage.
9 NRC's Mark Lombard stated that there is no technology 10 to find cracks in Holtec casks. They're made of 11 steel and subject to corrosion. Dr. Kris Singh, the 12 President of Holtec, said that it's not feasible to 13 repair Holtec's sealed canisters.
14 These facts cannot be ignored. Casks 15 must be better protected, monitored for heat, helium, 16 and temperature, and funds for mitigation included in 17 cost estimates because the fuel, as NRC has said, 18 could remain here indefinitely in an environment 19 subject to corrosion, moisture, and salt.
20 The GEIS and SEIS found socioeconomic 21 impacts small. Again, not so. A University of 22 Massachusetts Amherst study commissioned by the Town 23 of Plymouth found that the economic impact on Plymouth 24 alone would be almost $500 million and that there 25 would be more than $100 million impact on the rest of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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44 1 the region, including Duxbury.
2
Conclusion:
therefore, it's clear that 3 the GEIS and SEIS are totally inadequate and do not 4 bound the environmental impact. The NRC must require 5 both a comprehensive environmental analysis that 6 includes shovels and testing, made public, quite 7 obviously, at the beginning of the decommissioning 8 process and a NEPA analysis.
9 This is a major federal reaction. You 10 cannot pretend it is mere oversight to wiggle your 11 way out of the requirement. You gave the license and 12 you will terminate the licenses. That is a major 13 federal action.
14 And thank you very much.
15 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
16 MR. J. LAMPERT: I'm Jim Lampert, and I 17 am also here representing the Duxbury Board of 18 Selectmen. And I'd like to speak briefly on just one 19 aspect.
20 The Selectmen in the Town of Duxbury have 21 serious concerns about the financial aspects of 22 decommissioning. You heard Senator Markey's 23 representative, Senator Warren's representative, 24 Representative Keating's representative, and the 25 Attorney General's Office refer to these.
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45 1 Holtec's PSDAR, like Entergy's, says 2 there is enough money in the Decommissioning Trust 3 Fund to accomplish the job. Putting aside all of the 4 things the PSDAR doesn't talk about, and Mrs. Lampert 5 just listed, that assumption by Entergy and Holtec 6 rests on a further assumption that future costs in 7 decommissioning will not be more than future 8 increases in general inflation. That assumption is 9 highly questionable.
10 According to Callan Associates that 11 annually puts together a report on decommissioning 12 costs for the nuclear industry, decommissioning costs 13 increased at an annual rate of about 5.8 percent 14 between 2008 and 2016. This increase in cost is 15 about 4.5 percent above inflation. For a benchmark, 16 the NRC and the PSDARs assume that the Trust Fund 17 will grow at a rate of only 2 percent of the general 18 inflation.
19 The NRC's own questions and answers on 20 decommissioning financial assurance say that, over a 21 20-year period, there will be an annual increase in 22 decommissioning costs of between 5 and 9 percent.
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46 1 correct, it seems highly unlikely that there's going 2 to be enough money in the fund to accomplish the job.
3 Which leads me to a fundamental question 4 of the Board of Selectmen: if there is not enough 5 money, what law or regulation requires a licensee, 6 particularly a limited liability corporation like 7 Holtec-Pilgrim, or any of its parent or associated 8 entities, to pay the shortfall? Can you tell me if 9 there is such a regulation? And if so, tell me what 10 it is. And if you cannot do now, can I ask that you 11 tell us all tomorrow night at the decommissioning 12 panel meeting to give you the time to get the answer?
13 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
14 MS. CHIN: Rebecca Chin for the Town of 15 Duxbury. The Selectmen asked me to speak on public 16 safety this evening.
17 And we urge you to retain the current 18 offsite emergency planning funded by the licensee 19 until the spent fuel pool is emptied and continue 20 licensee-funded offsite emergency planning on a 21 reduced level until all the fuel leaves the site.
22 Entergy has currently filed for a license 23 exemption to end offsite and reduce onsite funding, 24 and this should be denied by the NRC. You cannot 25 expect mutual aid with no funding.
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47 1 The second is on monitoring. Mass 2 Department of Public Health should continue to expand 3 offsite radiological monitoring and onsite tritium 4 monitoring. The licensee should continue to provide 5 Mass Department of Public Health with its funding.
6 It needs to be required of the licensee.
7 Thank you.
8 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
9 MS. LYNCH-BENTTININ: Sheila Lynch-10 Benttinin in Duxbury, speaking on behalf of the Board 11 of Selectmen.
12 I would like to address one issue. Forty 13 years ago when community safety was being addressed, 14 telephone poles and speakers were the technology of 15 the time. Currently, in our Town of Duxbury, which 16 is within the 5-mile zone of Pilgrim, we have an Old 17 Colony network, digital network, of public safety 18 addresses. I would like Holtec, if they are going 19 to start next July, to engage the regional fire 20 departments and the Old Colony system of current 21 digital notification to be engaged in community 22 safety and planning during the three very important 23 years, especially after what just happened in 24 California with the accident. If there's an accident 25 during the Holtec time, if they're given the license, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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48 1 and you're not up-to-date with the current fire 2 department technologies in the region, it will be a 3 very tragic day. So, I encourage Holtec, if they're 4 given the license in July, to reach out to the 5 regional fire departments and the emergency 6 notification system, which has been greatly upgraded 7 since 40 years ago.
8 Thank you.
9 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you very much.
10 Are there any other elected officials or 11 representatives of elected officials or 12 representatives of federally-recognized tribes who 13 would like to introduce themselves this evening 14 before we move on to the public comment portion?
15 (No response.)
16 All right. Hearing none, I would like 17 to introduce Donna Janda, and we will proceed with 18 the public comment portion.
19 MS. JANDA: Thanks, Brett.
20 Good evening, everyone. As Brett said, 21 my name is Donna Janda, and I'll be facilitating 22 tonight's meeting along with Brett.
23 For those of you who registered to speak, 24 you should have received a ticket, the other half of 25 which Brett has in a container over here. And the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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49 1 speaking order is going to be determined by the 2 numbers that are pulled from the container. And the 3 intent of this is so that the speaker order is just 4 random.
5 So, I do want to emphasize there is no 6 prohibition against donating your ticket to others.
7 You are free to do so. However, both individuals 8 should be present at the time that number is called, 9 and the donation must be announced at that time.
10 In addition, if an individual has already 11 spoken during the meeting as a result of someone 12 donating their ticket, and then, that individual's 13 ticket is called, that individual may not use that 14 ticket, but they can donate it to someone else. This 15 is just to give opportunity to everyone to be able to 16 speak.
17 So, when your number is called, please 18 queue up to the microphone that's in the aisle, in 19 the center aisle right there. And if you need to 20 have a microphone brought to you, just let us know, 21 and Brett will take care of that for you.
22 Just so you have some advanced warning of 23 when it's your turn to speak, Brett's posting the 24 numbers right now as I'm speaking, and we're going to 25 just go down them in sequential order there.
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50 1 In an effort to give everybody the 2 opportunity to speak tonight, please limit yourselves 3 to three minutes when we speaking. We do have a 4 clock here on this table in the center here, in front 5 of the podium, and we'll count down those three 6 minutes. And after the three-minute mark, I'll 7 politely ask you to conclude your remarks.
8 For your awareness, the meeting tonight 9 is being recorded, and there is a transcript that 10 will generated after the meeting. Both the audio and 11 the transcript will be posted to the NRC website.
12 So, in light of that, I would ask, when it's your 13 turn to speak, that you please identify yourself.
14 And I would also ask, for the sake of the audio 15 recording, that people not speak over each other.
16 I would also ask that we keep this area 17 clear in front of the stage. If there is something 18 you would like to give to the NRC staff, you can give 19 that to Brett and he'll take care of that.
20 And now, just some basic groundrules to 21 go over. While recognizing many of you have 22 strongly-held opinions concerning the matters that 23 were discussed tonight, I ask that you, nonetheless, 24 adhere to civil decorum, that you respect each other.
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51 1 wouldn't want to be interrupted during your three 2 minutes at the microphone, please respect the 3 speaking time of others.
4 Any threatening gestures or statements 5 will under no circumstances be tolerated and will be 6 cause for immediate ejection from the meeting. If 7 you feel you've been threatened, please let me know 8 or please tell one of the NRC security personnel or 9 police officers in the room, and we will try and 10 address that.
11 The one thing that I do want to also 12 note -- and I haven't heard any tonight -- but please 13 make sure you silence your cell phones, so that 14 doesn't disrupt the meeting.
15 And I think we are ready to go at that.
16 So, the first number on the list is No. 2.
17 PARTICIPANT: I've already spoken.
18 MS. JANDA: Okay. Would you like to 19 donate that ticket to somebody else to speak?
20 MR. KLUKAN: Would anyone who didn't sign 21 up yet to speak like to speak right now?
22 (No response.)
23 All right. So, let's break this down.
24 This system is designed -- I actually just experienced 25 this at a Westinghouse meeting in South Carolina where NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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52 1 we didn't have that many numbers. So, this is 2 everyone. This is everyone who signed up to speak.
3 So, we have 14 people who signed up to speak. There 4 will likely be some opportunity at the end, after 5 these individuals have spoken, if you haven't signed 6 up to speak, or if you decide after hearing comments 7 to speak then.
8 So, the plan is just to move through these 9 numbers, and then, again, open it up after that. I'm 10 still going to keep people to the three minutes. And 11 then, if people have additional things to say after 12 that, once we've gotten through the list, and whether 13 there's any additional people who would like to speak, 14 then we can add on a second round, as time permits.
15 Okay?
16 So, did anyone want to use the No. 2 17 ticket?
18 (No response.)
19 If not, we will move on to the No. 12 20 ticket.
21 Pass? All right. Look at the time we 22 are making this evening.
23 (Laughter.)
24 The No. 1 ticket. Do you want to go?
25 MS. LAMPERT: Yes.
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53 1 MR. KLUKAN: All right, go. All right.
2 MS. LAMPERT: Mary Lampert for Pilgrim 3 Watch.
4 I just want to amplify the concern of our 5 town and other speakers of maintaining licensee 6 responsibility for offsite emergency planning in full 7 force, as it is now, whatever it is, until the pool 8 is emptied, and then, ratcheted-down until fuel 9 leaves the site.
10 What is not properly considered by NRC or 11 the licensees is our acts of malice. We know there 12 is a heightened threat environment, and we know that 13 the spent fuel pool is a vulnerable target, as 14 demonstrated by an expert for our Attorney General, 15 Dr. Gordon Thompson, during relicensing.
16 We know, also, that even in a cask they 17 are vulnerable to acts of malice by a shoulder-launch 18 missile, for example, and then, in the hole, putting 19 in an explosive. This is described in excruciating 20 detail, again by Dr. Thompson, both in hearings in 21 the United States, recent ones, and in Canada.
22 So, you have to consider it. The fact 23 that the probability may be low, you can take an 24 arithmetic view to it because of the consequences 25 being so great as they are.
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54 1 And consider also, we are very glad the 2 ISFSI pad has been moved to higher ground. However, 3 unfortunately, it wasn't moved to the Manomet side.
4 It was moved more towards, I'd say, the Duxbury side.
5 And it is very, very close to Rocky Hill Road.
6 So, we have gained a great deal by not 7 having it subject to climate change effects, but we 8 have lost on security. Therefore, we need a 9 reinforced barrier or some measure, a building or 10 something, to provide the security we need, because 11 the threat is not going away and each cask contains 12 over half the cesium-137 released in Chernobyl.
13 Thank you.
14 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you very much.
15 MS. JANDA: And the next number is No.
16 3.
17 PARTICIPANT: Pass.
18 PARTICIPANT: I'll take it.
19 MR. KLUKAN: It's important to hold the 20 physical copy of the ticket. I'm just kidding.
21 Could you state your name for the record?
22 MR. WOLFE: My name is Dan Wolfe. I'm 23 from Harwich on Cape Cod, and I also serve on the 24 Nuclear Decommissioning Citizens Advisory Panel. So, 25 I'll see you all tomorrow night, and I appreciate NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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55 1 your being here.
2 In case there are people that can't be 3 there tomorrow night that are here tonight, we have 4 heard expressed by numerous folks from our 5 legislative delegation, the Attorney General's 6 Office, a real concern that there isn't sufficient 7 funds. And we could go back and forth on that. It's 8 conjecture. It's based on certain assumptions 9 relative to economic returns on what's in the Trust 10 Fund.
11 So, I guess I have a really specific 12 question. And that is, what happens if there isn't?
13 What happens if there is not specific funds? Where 14 does the burden go?
15 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
16 MR. WATSON: The short answer is the 17 licensee remains responsible for completing the 18 decommissioning and providing the funds that are 19 necessary to do that. So, that would be a 20 responsibility that, if we were to grant the license 21 transfer to Holtec, they would be responsible for and 22 for complying with the requirements.
23 MR. WOLFE: Could I ask a followup 24 question to that, please?
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56 1 minutes left.
2 MR. WOLFE: Okay. Thanks.
3 So, I guess question would be, is there 4 any precedent or is there an ability to hold the 5 original licensee liable in addition to Holtec?
6 There are layers of sort of corporate creation here 7 that I think limit and insulate from liability. So, 8 I question would be, is there a mechanism, is there 9 a precedent, is there a way to keep Entergy 10 potentially liable or the investors in Entergy 11 potentially liable if the funds are insufficient?
12 Because our concern is it goes to that 13 entity, and, of course, the well is dry. And by the 14 way, that is by design. That is by corporate design 15 as far as how this is being constructed.
16 Thank you very much.
17 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you again.
18 MR. WATSON: To the best of knowledge, 19 we don't have any precedent. We have had some sites 20 go bankrupt, and we've worked with the trustee of the 21 Trust Fund to complete the decommissioning. So, 22 there's no -- once we complete our review, and if we 23 were to transfer the license, there would be no going 24 back to Entergy for the funds. So, it's either 25 they're going to be qualified to do that and accept NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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57 1 that responsibility or not.
2 MS. JANDA: The next speaker will be No.
3 4.
4 MS. TURCO: Diane Turco with Cape 5 Downwinders.
6 Being a good neighbor means taking care 7 of each other and making decisions for the common 8 good. Entergy has advertised itself as a corporation 9 that is a good neighbor -- as long as there is money 10 to be made. Now the plug will be pulled in June and 11 the coffers will dry up. Entergy is running for the 12 exit door and leaving their legacy mess behind.
13 Entergy's PDS[A]R calls for SAFSTOR, 14 making Pilgrim a radioactive holding tank for 60 15 years. Holtec for DECON, prompt decommissioning 16 using the Decommissioning Trust Fund with exemptions.
17 What is best for the community should be the priority 18 of both their plans, but it is not.
19 We all agree that prompt decommissioning 20 is the best, but it must be done responsibly and 21 safely. The following are our standards to meet the 22 good neighbor requirements:
23 With the ISFSI holding tons of 24 radioactive waste, there's still a potential for 25 offsite release. The PSD[A]R must include emergency NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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58 1 plans based on low-probability, high-consequence 2 incidents, such as terrorists attacks, and be 3 included in the Environmental Impact Statement.
4 Location of the ISFSI pad must consider 5 a technically-defensible onsite storage location.
6 That's not what we have now.
7 Dry cask must be improved with quality 8 and be able to be inspected, monitored, repaired, and 9 are retrievable.
10 Procedures must be in place for transfer 11 of waste from any cracked or damaged canisters or 12 casks which may mean keeping the pool.
13 Procedures and training for fuel transfer 14 with certification of completion by the NRC prior to 15 moving any fuel from the pool.
16 Residual radiation levels must match 17 [Environmental Protection Agency] EPA standards and 18 inclusion of independent oversight.
19 Finally, we ask for an [Attorney General 20 Office] AGO inspection into Holtec and its 21 subsidiaries before any license transfer. As 22 [Limited Liability Corporations] LLCs, this looks 23 like a house of cards with no guarantee that available 24 funds will be available to complete the job.
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59 1 clear assurance that the taxpayers will not be left 2 paying off the mess Entergy has left behind.
3 Looking at Holtec's record from recent 4 events at San Onofre near San Diego, confidence in 5 their ability to make decisions based on protection 6 of the public is questionable. An NRC special 7 inspection report of a near drop of a full canister 8 cited poor training, not following procedures, 9 equipment problems, and mismanagement. Sound 10 familiar? Poor management, poor training, poor 11 procedures, et cetera, has kept Entergy's operation 12 at Pilgrim as the least safe in the U.S. still. This 13 is like going from the frying pan into the fire. We 14 don't need another corporation here with a poor safety 15 culture that puts profit over public safety.
16 We are concerned neighbors and will 17 support a responsible and safe decommissioning plan 18 that protects our communities. If Holtec is setting 19 the standard at SONGS, Cape Downwinders cannot 20 support the transfer of license from Entergy at this 21 time.
22 You need to go back to the drawing board 23 and do better for our communities.
24 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you very much.
25 MS. JANDA: The next speaker will be No.
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60 1 9.
2 MR. ROTHSTEIN: Good evening. Richard 3 Rothstein, Town of Plymouth resident and a new member 4 of the State Nuclear Decommissioning Citizens 5 Advisory Panel.
6 I asked the question during last week's 7 webinar regarding Entergy's PSDAR for SAFSTOR about 8 the anticipated timeline for when the NRC would allow 9 the onsite meteorological towers to get dismantled 10 during the decommissioning process under SAFSTOR.
11 The NRC couldn't answer that question, only because 12 it's a little bit too early in the process. So, I 13 just wanted to rephrase my question.
14 Why is it important to have the onsite 15 meteorological towers? They're important because of 16 emergency planning purposes. In the event of a 17 radiological emergency with the plant still operating 18 or once the plant is permanently shut down, but spent 19 fuel in the pool, before it gets transferred, and 20 even with the dry casks onsite, if there were a 21 radiological emergency, a release, emergency 22 responders would need to have that information to be 23 able to make determinations of shelter in place versus 24 emergency evacuation determinations there. This need 25 doesn't disappear simply just because the plant is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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61 1 permanently shutting down.
2 So, to rephrase my question from last 3 week, I'd be interested in learning about other plants 4 that have decommissioned or are in the process of 5 decommissioning, most using SAFSTOR, but some are 6 probably going to use DECON, and when the NRC allowed 7 a licensee to dismantle the onsite meteorological 8 towers. I don't expect you would have an answer 9 tonight, but certainly in the next few weeks I'd be 10 very interested in learning more about that history, 11 so we can see what circumstances did NRC require those 12 towers to stay up longer or other circumstances where 13 they allowed a licensee to dismantle them sooner than 14 later.
15 Thank you.
16 MS. JANDA: All right. Thank you.
17 The next speaker will be No. 10.
18 MR. WALLEN: Hello. My name is Stan 19 Wallen, a resident of the Town of Plymouth. And I'll 20 disclose that I'm a retiree of Pilgrim Nuclear Power 21 Station.
22 I have one simple question for Holtec.
23 Based on the numbers you put up on the board, where 24 are you going to make $89 million in five years? You 25 need 1.54 billion to decommission in your timeline.
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62 1 You have 105 now. If you're in the business to make 2 money, where are you going to get an additional almost 3 90 million?
4 MR. KLUKAN: One moment.
5 MS. STERDIS: This is Andrea Sterdis.
6 And the cash flow analysis that are 7 included in both the license transfer application as 8 well as the PSDAR for DECON demonstrate that the costs 9 will be distributed over time, and it does accurately 10 reflect the regulations regarding the Trust Fund 11 increases over time.
12 MR. WALLEN: I see. So, I'll just quote 13 a former presidential candidate, that we're working 14 with, "voodoo economics".
15 Secondly, this whole situation here 16 almost looks like it's down pat that Holtec will get 17 a license transfer. What is the consequence of the 18 NRC not approving a license transfer? We're going 19 to have Entergy try to decommission and take 60 years.
20 Is there a method or order or compulsion that can 21 happen to have Entergy accelerate the process? Are 22 we stuck with that if the license transfer is not 23 approved? An NRC question.
24 MR. WATSON: Okay. Yes, first of all, 25 we are in the process of reviewing the Holtec NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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63 1 application and the associated financial and 2 technical information that has been provided. So, 3 there's been no conclusion on that.
4 Should we deny the application and not 5 allow the transfer to take place, yes, Entergy would 6 remain the licensee and be responsible for 7 maintaining the plant in a safe condition. So, we 8 would continue to inspect as we will if the license 9 were transferred the facility to ensure it's 10 maintained safely, and regardless of the DECON option 11 or SAFSTOR option they choose. But the bottom line 12 here is the licensee would be, continue to be Entergy, 13 and their requirement is that they have to complete 14 the decommissioning in 60 years.
15 MR. WALLEN: Thank you.
16 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you very much.
17 Would it be beneficial to people if we 18 put back up the slide with one of the numbers instead 19 of just looking at "Thank you," which I'm sure is 20 very useful to all of you? Maybe either the Pilgrim 21 numbers, or the Entergy numbers or the Holtec number, 22 one of the two? Okay. Thanks for doing that.
23 MS. JANDA: Okay. The next speaker will 24 be No. 14.
25 MS. CONSETINO: Good evening, everybody.
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64 1 I'm Henrietta Consetino, resident of Plymouth and, 2 also, Chair of the League of Women Voters Nuclear 3 Committee.
4 And I thank you for coming tonight. We 5 appreciate it. It's very important.
6 I also want to say I appreciate greatly 7 the speakers who came from the offices of our elected 8 officials. It was very helpful to have their 9 comments.
10 I have a question, but I'll save it for 11 last. My first is just a comment in total laymen 12 terms. We have two possibilities right now. On the 13 one hand, we have Holtec proposing to decommission in 14 a very short amount of time, and for cheap, and 15 phenomenally. It just sounds too good to be true, 16 particularly if you start to pay attention to the 17 nature of the dry casks that are being proposed and 18 the fact that these very same dry casks have been 19 tremendously troublesome at San Onofre and probably 20 in other places, too, all of them scratched, being 21 subject to erosion from saltwater, being stored on 22 the beach.
23 At least in San Onofre, the plan was it's 24 now suspended for a time, but the plan was to put 25 these faulty casks in a vaulted system. Here in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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65 1 Plymouth, there is no proposal for any kind of 2 vaulting, any kind of hard cover for these very 3 vulnerable casks that could be subject to terrorism.
4 We appreciate the moving of the ISFSI, 5 and that was important to us, but there is much more 6 that needs to be done if Holtec is to have the 7 license. It's also very disturbing that Holtec is 8 requesting waivers for a certain amount of 9 regulations, just as Entergy has been granted waivers 10 for the computer security that was required for all 11 of their plants in the wake of Fukushima, waiver from 12 the kind of hard valves that would make it safer.
13 So, this is disturbing.
14 On the other hand, if we go with so-15 called, grotesquely-called SAFSTOR, 60 years of 16 decommissioning, this is surreal. We will all be 17 gone 60 years from now, every single one of us in 18 this room, unless there is a very young person. And 19 many of our children will be gone, too. And I wonder 20 who exactly is going to be in charge, what they will 21 have been told, and so forth.
22 Have I reached my limit? Okay. I stop 23 there then.
24 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you very much.
25 MS. JANDA: The next speaker will be No.
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66 1 8.
2 MR. GARLEY: Hi. I'm John Garley. I'm 3 from Hingham.
4 I have an NRC Information Notice 2012-20 [Potential 5 Chloride-Induced Stress Corrosion Cracking of 6 Austenitic Stainless Steel and Maintenance of Dry 7 Cask Storage System Canisters, dated November 14, 8 2012 (ML12319A440)] that says that chloride-induced 9 stress corrosion cracking of austenitic -- right?
10 You got the right word? -- stainless steel in dry 11 cask storage systems. And there's a couple of times 12 that it happened in San Onofre, St. Lucie Nuclear 13 Power Plant, Turkey Point, and through the wall at 14 Koeberg Nuclear Power Station. Are these casks made 15 out of this austenitic steel? That's a question for 16 Holtec. Austenitic. Are you going to answer the 17 question or?
18 PARTICIPANT: Austenitic.
19 MR. GARLEY: Austenitic? Thank you.
20 Are these casks made out of that? Because this 21 document says that they're cracked from being near 22 saltwater.
23 Do you need to hit a button or something 24 (referring to microphone)?
25 MR. KLUKAN: I'm just going to phrase it.
26 Would someone from either Entergy or Holtec like to 27 answer that question?
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67 1 MR. GARLEY: Well, my concern is that the 2 [Chief Executive Officer] CEO says that, if there is 3 a crack, you couldn't fix it, right? And you might 4 not be able to find it. But if there's no fuel pool, 5 what do you do with that cask? So, that's a question 6 for Holtec. Do we have a solution if there's a cask 7 leak, and what are you going to do with it?
8 MS. J. RUSSELL: My name is Joy Russell.
9 I think that Andrea did introduce me at the very 10 beginning.
11 First, I would like to say that your 12 information about canisters is incorrect. There are 13 no leaking canisters in the United States. Holtec's 14 canisters do not leak. There has been no --
15 MR. GARLEY: The steel has corroded.
16 MS. J. RUSSELL: That is incorrect, sir.
17 I have --
18 MR. GARLEY: Okay. Well, that's an NRC 19 information docket number. So, you might want to 20 check with them. I'm just going by what they have.
21 MS. J. RUSSELL: Okay. Holtec's 22 canisters have no evidence of stress corrosion 23 cracking.
24 MR. GARLEY: Really? All right. Well, 25 you might want to talk to them because they're putting NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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68 1 stuff online that says they do. All right?
2 And then, the Sierra Club put a letter to 3 the NRC as well -- it's Event No. 51134 [event date 4 June 6, 2015 - https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-5 collections/event-6 status/event/2015/20150610en.html] -- that Holtec 7 filled the Diablo Canyon canisters incorrectly in 8 half of them. Is that incorrect as well? Because 9 there's stuff online you might want to cancel.
10 MS. J. RUSSELL: Sir, I beg to differ 11 with you; that is also incorrect.
12 MR. GARLEY: Again? Okay.
13 MS. J. RUSSELL: The Diablo Canyon 14 canisters, which were loaded by Holtec on behalf of 15 Pacific Gas and Electric, were all loaded correctly 16 in accordance with our Certificate of Compliance.
17 MR. GARLEY: Okay. Well, somebody's got 18 some bad -- and the last thing is with NRC. Are you 19 considering deep isolation technology as well, 20 besides just Holtec's stuff? Because, I mean, we're 21 getting one option here or two that sound pretty bad 22 to me.
23 MR. WATSON: Well, let me just state that 24 there is --
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69 1 (referring to the tickets for order of speakers).
2 MR. WATSON: There is a need in the 3 country for permanent repository of the spent fuel.
4 MR. GARLEY: Uh-hum.
5 MR. WATSON: The Department of Energy is 6 responsible for developing and finding that site and 7 using the proper technology. So, it's really up to 8 our policymakers in Washington to fund those 9 activities and to allow them to do their work in 10 identifying and developing a site and what 11 technologies will be used with that.
12 I think everybody is aware that there was 13 some work-in-progress at the Yucca Mountain site in 14 Nevada. And so, that came to a halt. And so now, 15 it's up to the policymakers to reinstate the need or 16 the promise they made for disposing of this material.
17 MR. GARLEY: Okay. And my last question 18 for Holtec is that you have sent an application to 19 the NRC for interim storage in Lea County, New Mexico.
20 Does that mean you want to move this waste to New 21 Mexico? Is that on your plan?
22 MS. J. RUSSELL: Sir, you're correct, 23 Holtec has submitted a license application to the 24 Nuclear Regulatory Commission to license a 25 consolidated interim storage facility in southeast NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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70 1 New Mexico. And if the facility is constructed, it 2 is the possibility of moving the fuel from here to 3 that facility in New Mexico. That is correct.
4 MR. GARLEY: All right. So, the DOE says 5 there's 5,000 train car incidents a year. Do you 6 think that could be dangerous with stuff that's 7 corroded from the ocean?
8 MS. J. RUSSELL: Sir, if I understand 9 your question correctly, you're asking for my 10 opinion --
11 MR. GARLEY: Yes.
12 MS. J. RUSSELL: -- if I think 13 transportation of spent nuclear fuel is safe. Yes, 14 I do. The industry does it on a regular basis. We 15 have transported more than 1380 shipments by rail, 16 all safely, without any release of radioactive 17 material.
18 MR. GARLEY: Okay. Thank you.
19 MS. JANDA: Thank you.
20 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you very much.
21 Before we move, since we do have some 22 time, we kind of left that hanging there, that 23 question. So, just to clarify, so the members of the 24 public don't go away potentially confused on this.
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71 1 steel, or if they're not, could we just state that 2 for the record? Because we kind of moved on to the 3 second question without answering the first. I just 4 want to make sure, because it seemed like there was 5 some confusion about that amongst the crowd.
6 MS. J. RUSSELL: Yes, the canisters are 7 made out of austenitic stainless steel.
8 MR. KLUKAN: All right. Thank you. I 9 appreciate that.
10 MS. JANDA: The next speaker will be No.
11 11.
12 MS. MILLER: Hello. My name is Claire 13 Miller. I'm the lead organizer with Toxics Action 14 Center. We're a public health and environmental 15 nonprofit founded in 1987.
16 And while I don't consider myself to be 17 an extremely young person, it is conceivable that I 18 could live to 93.
19 And I'm a community organizer, but I also 20 happened to grow up -- I was born and raised in 21 Duxbury, Massachusetts. And so, I want to speak a 22 little bit more from the heart tonight.
23 At Toxics Action Center we've really seen 24 over our history that corporations go to very great 25 lengths to avoid cleaning up their messes. And as a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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72 1 teenager, I have a lot of memories hearing about 2 Pilgrim Nuclear Power Plant. It's not every 3 childhood that you learn your home could be in a 4 nuclear meltdown.
5 My father is a curious man. He took 6 tours of the nuclear power plant before they stopped 7 doing that after 9/11. He told me stories about how 8 the folks would say, "Oh, don't stand there. That 9 spot's hot."
10 We also had a family friend who worked at 11 like a landscaping company. And I remember my father 12 and them joking about, you know, how the site 13 was -- there are hidden mysteries. And my distinct 14 impression was that they weren't kidding, even though 15 they were talking in a funny manner.
16 So, it really disturbs me that this isn't 17 proceeding with extreme care to the data. And I want 18 to say that it's extremely important to me that 19 there's a comprehensive environmental analysis done 20 on the entire site. We have to know really what's 21 there.
22 The second piece here is that, as corny 23 as it may sound, we're in Hotel 1620. I am actually 24 descended from a pilgrim, and that's 15 generations 25 of my family. And I have an intention to do well by NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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73 1 this place. You know, my descendants haven't always 2 done well by this land, and I'd like to see 15 more 3 generations. But that's only possible if we do an 4 extremely good job. So, it's very important to me 5 that we honor the Commonwealth's desire for a cleanup 6 standard of no less than 10.
7 And the third thing that I am really 8 sitting on as we're here is really around drinking 9 water. It's so precious. And once it's 10 contaminated, it's extremely difficult to fix.
11 Toxics Action Center is working with 12 countless communities across the region who don't 13 have access to clean drinking water. And so, as this 14 continues, as the NRC oversees the future of the site, 15 we have to ensure that there's clean drinking water 16 and we must meet the EPA's own standard of no less 17 than 4 for the drinking water.
18 Thank you.
19 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you very much.
20 MS. JANDA: The next speaker will be No.
21 7.
22 MS. CORRIGAN: Hi. Joanne Corrigan. I 23 live in Plymouth. I can ride my bike to the power 24 plant.
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74 1 of all, that beautiful slide they showed of Yankee 2 Rowe, how pastoral it looked after the 3 decommissioning, where are the spent fuel casks? Is 4 that airbrushed or Photoshopped?
5 (Laughter.)
6 MR. WATSON: No, that's an actual 7 picture. The dry fuel storage facility is located 8 above the river there on the hill.
9 MS. CORRIGAN: Because Plymouth will 10 never look like that. First of all, we have that 11 nasty jetty that's ripped the sand off Priscilla 12 Beach. And apparently, that's staying there, even 13 though the slides are saying how it goes back to the 14 natural state in the environment. Is that right?
15 Isn't Holtec going to leave the jetty there? After 16 the reactor cools, I know --
17 MR. WATSON: I guess Holtec can maybe 18 answer.
19 MS. STERDIS: It is our plan to leave the 20 jetty there.
21 MS. CORRIGAN: Okay. My other 22 question -- and I agree 100 percent with Mary Lampert 23 that you're moving the casks now. Finally you 24 figured out it's too close to the ocean. You didn't 25 need a study. Just come down to Priscilla Beach NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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75 1 during a full moon when there's a nor'easter, and 2 you'll see the waves come crashing onto the street.
3 Why they put those first ones so close is beyond me.
4 Now where they're going to move them, 5 they're right out in the open of Rocky Hill Road.
6 And what's to prevent, say, a dump truck with about 7 10 terrorists with RPGs or AR-15s with armor-piercing 8 bullets from stopping there, jumping up, and not 9 shooting at 100 casks, shooting at one cask? What's 10 the chance of that being compromised and breached and 11 releasing radiation?
12 MS. J. RUSSELL: Again, Joy Russell.
13 In November, we presented at the Citizens 14 Advisory Panel 15 [1] a very 16 lengthy discussion -- I personally did that with one 17 of my colleagues -- about the safety and security 18 that's offered by the Holtec HI-STORM 100 System 19 that's in use at Pilgrim. In that discussion, which 20 you can go back and I believe see it online, I 21 presented a long discussion about the casks' ability 22 to withstand even an aircraft crash 23 24 tec%20Cask%20Design%20NDCAP%20Nov%2028th.pdf. So, 25 the system is very robust and it can withstand what NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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76 1 you have just described as beyond-design-basis 2 scenarios.
3 MS. CORRIGAN: I see. Well, my third 4 comment is, when Pilgrim was up and running and 5 actually made money, Entergy still couldn't get them 6 out of the column 4 degraded column, didn't want to 7 spend the money, didn't have the expertise, didn't 8 have the enthusiasm, all of the above.
9 What makes you think we are going to 10 believe, after the NRC gives them a pass on the 11 cybersecurity, the everything, that now, all of a 12 sudden, they're offline, they're not making money, 13 and they're going to put in the resource of the money 14 to keep us safe? I don't believe that for a minute.
15 Thank you.
16 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
17 MS. JANDA: The next speaker will be No.
18 5.
19 MS. CONSETINO: Now I'll finish my 20 comment, but I'll make it very quick.
21 I wanted to follow up on the 22 comments -- I'm sorry. Henrietta Consetino.
23 MS. JANDA: Thank you.
24 MS. CONSETINO: Plymouth resident, 25 League of Women Voters.
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77 1 I wanted to follow up on the many 2 questions about finances, and go back to Jim Lampert's 3 question. Where is the regulation that actually 4 holds the licensee responsible, should the fund, the 5 Decommissioning Trust Fund, be inadequate? And along 6 the way, what happens if the stock market crashes, 7 and 1.05 billion turns into 900 million, or something 8 of that sort? What happens then? What is the state 9 of the Trust Fund right now?
10 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
11 MR. TWOMEY: Mike Twomey, on behalf of 12 Entergy.
13 We provide a periodic update on the value 14 of the Trust Fund, and we do not have an up-to-date 15 number available this evening.
16 MR. KLUKAN: Just to follow up, so we 17 don't leave it like that, when do you provide these?
18 So, October was the last one. When would you provide 19 the next one?
20 MR. TWOMEY: Well, we at least provide a 21 number in March of every year as part of our annual 22 disclosure to the NRC. I don't know if we will be 23 providing one before March. And it's actually a 24 March number. I think it actually comes out in April.
25 MR. KLUKAN: Okay. Thank you.
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78 1 MS. CONSETINO: It's worrisome because 2 we've had some very serious major plummets in the 3 market since October.
4 But I want to go back to the first 5 question and make sure you don't forget that Jim 6 originally asked, is there a regulation that holds 7 the licensee to its financial responsibilities? And 8 if so, what is that regulation?
9 MR. KLUKAN: Again, thank you.
10 MR. WATSON: Let me respond. I'm sorry.
11 The regulations for the decommissioning funding are 12 spelled out in 50.82. The actual requirement, if 13 you're going to accept or apply for a license with 14 the NRC, means that the licensee will be responsible 15 for providing the decommissioning funds to restore 16 the site and have the license terminated. Those are 17 in, I think it's 50.2. When a licensee applies for 18 a license, there's something called the Common 19 Defense Clause, which means you are accepting that 20 responsibility when you apply for a license, and that 21 you will be radiologically and environmentally 22 responsible for cleaning up the site when you've 23 completed the work.
24 PARTICIPANT: What if they go bankrupt?
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79 1 for providing the funding, and that would be part of 2 the process we would go through for getting the assets 3 of the company and continuing the completion of the 4 decommissioning.
5 MR. WATSON [KLUKAN]: We have two more, 6 and then, we can potentially do a second round. But 7 the question that was posed on the floor, to which 8 Bruce responded, was, what happens if they go 9 bankrupt? I just wanted to make sure we capture that 10 for the transcript.
11 So, next up will be No. 13.
12 MR. GUSTAFSON: Good evening. My name's 13 Scott Gustafson. I'm a Plymouth resident.
14 I'm happy to hear tonight that Holtec is 15 planning on going with the DECON process and the 16 expedited process. I'm here to support the license 17 transfer to Holtec because of their technical 18 expertise.
19 As a representative of the Laborers' 20 International Union of North America, our union has 21 worked extensively with Holtec and their subsidiaries 22 around the country, successfully, safely, 23 efficiently.
24 I don't know if some of the references to 25 Holtec tonight are accurate, because we've always NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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80 1 worked closely with them. It's always been safe.
2 It's always been very efficient.
3 I have a brother and sister who are 4 working down at Pilgrim now, or have worked on the 5 last two projects with Holtec down there. I don't 6 hear anything about unsafe conditions. I hear that 7 the job is going great; they're moving the fuel 8 correctly, and they're very comfortable, and they're 9 making a great living while they're doing it. The 10 plant has always been an economic benefit to our town, 11 and decommissioning this way will also be a strong 12 economic benefit.
13 I also want to say that Holtec works 14 extensively with our International Union and has 15 helped us develop a state-of-the-art rad worker 16 training program, and we train workers in our state-17 of-the-art facilities here in New England, in 18 Hopkinton, in Pomfret, Connecticut. And over the 19 years, our members have decommissioned Maine Yankee, 20 Connecticut Yankee, and the Yankee Rowe Plant, which 21 I actually go rafting up there, tubing up there in 22 that river. It's a beautiful site. I go up there 23 every year. It doesn't bother me at all.
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81 1 to its beauty that it once was for the Town of 2 Plymouth.
3 So, thank you very much.
4 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
5 MS. JANDA: And the last speaker on the 6 list will be No. 6.
7 MS. CARPENTER: My name is Susan 8 Carpenter with the Cape Downwinders, and I live in 9 South Dennis on the Cape.
10 I have a comment, and then, I have two 11 questions. At one of the Nuclear Decommissioning 12 Citizens Advisory Panel meetings, Holtec spoke and 13 said that they have an impeccable safety record. On 14 the other hand, the fact that that near-drop on the 15 West Coast occurred kind of defies their claim that 16 they have an impeccable record. And not only that, 17 but it was a whistleblower that brought this to public 18 attention.
19 My questions are: is it a conflict of 20 interest for Holtec to buy Holtec casks to store the 21 nuclear waste?
22 MR. WATSON: I guess that's a commercial 23 thing that the NRC would not get into, but I don't 24 see any real issue with it. It is what their product 25 line is and what they're offering. And I assume that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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82 1 they will use that, do the work safely and compliantly 2 with the license requirements for the Certificate of 3 Compliance. And we'll be there to inspect to make 4 sure that they are.
5 MS. CARPENTER: Okay. And my other 6 question was: how many sites has Holtec 7 decommissioned? And by that, I don't mean as a 8 contractor. Excluding that, how many sites has 9 Holtec decommissioned?
10 MS. J. RUSSELL: Holtec International has 11 not decommissioned any sites. However, that said, 12 we have hired Comprehensive Decommissioning 13 International, CDI, which is a company that includes 14 SNC-Lavalin, and they have a rich history of 15 decommissioning nuclear plants and other nuclear 16 facilities.
17 MS. CARPENTER: Thank you.
18 MR. KLUKAN: Again, that was Joy Russell 19 of Holtec, just for the purposes of the transcript.
20 All right. We've now exhausted, as you 21 can see -- this is really good handwriting for me.
22 I'm going to pat myself on the back for this. We've 23 now opened it up -- whatever, I'll take what I can 24 get -- to people who have not yet spoken this 25 evening.
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83 1 So, we don't have an established order, 2 but I think Pine raised her hand first. And then, 3 we'll just go around. Okay?
4 So, again, we'll do three minutes apiece, 5 and then, if we have enough time left over, people 6 may get to do a second round. But let's go first 7 with people who have not yet had an opportunity to 8 speak.
9 So, I turn it over to you.
10 MS. DUBOIS: Thank you, and thank you all 11 for being here.
12 I want to state clearly that I hope Holtec 13 succeeds. I hope Entergy is happy, and I hope the 14 NRC finally wraps its head around sea-level rise, 15 which you are not doing, and that is pretty plain 16 with your reliance on the SIEC [SEIS] and the GEIR 17 [GEIS].
18 There is no basis at all for you to accept 19 Entergy's proposal to wait 60 years to clean up the 20 site. That's plainly a fraud.
21 Take a look at the Fourth National 22 Climate Assessment that was released in late October-23 November. You will be chapter 18 in the Northeast.
24 You will see that our worst-case scenario is, by 2100, 25 we have sea-level rise of 11.5 feet NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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84 1 [2].
2 That's the new estimate, but daily things are changing 3 so fast and the scientists are learning so much, that 4 that adjustment continues.
5 It is important to the public trust that 6 you regulators and you contractors and Entergy -- oh, 7 Lord -- takes care of us and looks at that. Cleaning 8 up the site does not mean letting it wash into Cape 9 Cod Bay, and in 60 years that's what's going to 10 happen.
11 Even if there's not inundation on the 12 site, the groundwater level will be so high that you 13 will not be able to safely and effectively get the 14 contamination out of the ground. If it goes into the 15 environment, the NRC is failing in its mission to 16 protect the environment and the people. So is 17 Holtec, as a reputable company, I will say. So, is 18 Entergy, as a reputable company. You need to address 19 this. The PSDAR for Entergy does not. The Holtec 20 PSDAR does not. And if they run out of money and the 21 cleanup is delayed, we're all in a stew.
22 So, please, NRC, take another look at 23 your regulations. Give it a try at updating that.
24 Call in those scientists that work for the government 25 that wrote that report, and get on the reality page.
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85 1 We've living with it here. Stick around on Sunday.
2 Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, stay here. Go down to the 3 plant then and see what happens.
4 Thank you very much.
5 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
6 Again, that was Pine duBois.
7 Just please state your name for the 8 record before you begin.
9 MS. DUBOIS: Pine duBois with 10 [Commonwealth of Massachusetts Nuclear 11 Decommissioning Citizens Advisory Panel] NDCAP.
12 MR. KLUKAN: So, Pine duBois with NDCAP.
13 Thank you.
14 MR. E. RUSSELL: I'm Ed Russell, an 15 elected town meeting member in Plymouth.
16 When businesses as well as governmental 17 agencies engage in big contracts, they usually see to 18 it that there's a bond produced that will guarantee 19 the performance of the contract. And so, I'd like 20 to know why that isn't possible here.
21 MR. WATSON: Performance bonds are used 22 frequently. If we deem that there's sufficient funds 23 to do the decommissioning, we have no need to require 24 them. I think in the recent [Vermont Yankee] VY 25 transfer, Vermont Yankee sale, asset sale and license NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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86 1 transfer, one of the conditions we put on -- or the 2 agreement that we got from NorthStar was to provide 3 additional financial assurance. I think it was along 4 the lines of $30 million to make sure there was 5 sufficient funds. If it's not required, then they're 6 not required. So, it's up to the agreement between 7 the sales, also, to come up with the proper financial 8 information and guarantees.
9 MR. E. RUSSELL: That's your version of 10 risk assessment, but we citizens here have a different 11 assessment of the risk. And when you do have a 12 contract that's just barely enough to cover, and could 13 well exceed the funds available, I would say a prudent 14 entity would look for a bond. And if there is, as 15 you say, a low risk, then the bond should not be that 16 expensive. So, I'd like to see that happen.
17 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
18 MR. KELLERMAN: So, my name is Bruce 19 Kellerman.
20 I have a question. What happens to the 21 1200-acre site? Who owns it and are there plans for 22 development? And if so, where can we find those and 23 what are their elaborate schemes?
24 MR. TWOMEY: This is Mike Twomey, on 25 behalf of Entergy.
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87 1 When you say the 1200 acres, I assume you 2 mean the 1200 acres of undeveloped property across 3 Rocky Hill Road, correct?
4 MR. KELLERMAN: Yes.
5 MR. TWOMEY: That property currently is 6 owned by Entergy. It is included in the sale to 7 Holtec. And if the license transfer application is 8 approved and the transaction closes, Holtec will 9 become the owner of the 1200 acres. And I have not 10 heard about any specific plans for development of 11 that site at this time, but they would be the owner 12 of the land after the transaction closes, if it 13 closes.
14 MR. KELLERMAN: Does Holtec have plans 15 for the development of the site? It will be 16 paying -- I assume it will be paying property taxes 17 going forward.
18 MS. STERDIS: No specific plans for that 19 property have been defined at this time. And, yes, 20 we will be paying the appropriate property taxes on 21 that site.
22 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you for your 23 questions.
24 MR. DELAFIELD: Yes, I'm Lawrence 25 Delafield. I'm a resident of the Town of Plymouth, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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88 1 a town meeting member, and the President of the Six 2 Ponds Association, which is a local organization very 3 close to the site.
4 And of course, my concern is this: we 5 live in an area that will be in danger until this 6 material is totally removed from the site. Why do 7 we have to wait that long? How can we possibly get 8 that moved up, so that it's removed quicker, or at 9 least provide a major incentive to remove all items 10 from the site? Because we will not be safe until 11 that happens.
12 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
13 Okay. Is there anyone else who has not 14 yet spoken who would like to speak this evening?
15 (No response.)
16 Going once, going twice. All right.
17 Is there anyone who has spoken this 18 evening who would like to speak again?
19 MR. LAMPERT: Jim Lampert, resident of 20 Duxbury.
21 I'd just like to spend a moment on 22 comments, and if I'm wrong, I would ask that the NRC, 23 Entergy, and Holtec correct me. My understanding of 24 the transaction, as described in the license transfer 25 application, is that Holtec-Pilgrim will be the owner NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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89 1 of the site and will be the one who owns the 2 Decommissioning Trust Fund.
3 In Holtec's license transfer and PSDAR 4 applications, it says that, quote, "The existing 5 Decommissioning Trust Funds provide the appropriate 6 basis for the financial qualifications of Holtec-7 Pilgrim." It also says that Holtec, quote, "Holtec-8 Pilgrim will be required to pay for HDI's cost of 9 post-shutdown operations, including all 10 decommissioning costs at Pilgrim." Close quote.
11 It seemed very clear from that that the 12 only potential financial responsibility of Holtec-13 Pilgrim -- and that is the only one we need to focus 14 on because they are the only licensee -- depends 15 entirely on the Decommissioning Trust Fund.
16 It also seems clear, listening to Mr.
17 Watson, that a statement in a regulation that a 18 licensee that, frankly, has no money and is bankrupt 19 is, quote, "responsible," close quote, provides 20 absolutely no assurance that that licensee will pay.
21 It, frankly, doesn't have any money. And that, 22 unless I missed something that Mr. Watson has 23 said -- and I asked the question earlier -- there is 24 absolutely nothing in NRC rules, regulations, or 25 pertinent law that would permit the NRC to enforce NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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90 1 the licensees' and their parents' responsibility to 2 pay for what they caused. Am I correct?
3 MR. WATSON: I will try and respond a 4 little bit here. We owe you a response to your 5 question on the ownership. The only comment I can 6 really make at this point, we will be responsible 7 with the responsible regulations. I have to go to 8 our Office of General Counsel for that.
9 MR. LAMPERT: No, no, I would appreciate 10 your doing that, though.
11 MR. WATSON: Yes. No, we have to do 12 that.
13 The other issue is that we are currently 14 reviewing the license application or plan to start on 15 that very soon. So, we really can't pass any judgment 16 other than the general process we're using and the 17 general requirements for the decommissioning funding 18 and how they would apply to the license transfer.
19 It's we're still doing our review. So, we haven't 20 concluded anything. And so, your comments are valid 21 to that review. And so, I'm sure the staff will take 22 that into account.
23 MR. LAMPERT: Yes, and I would ask that, 24 if in the review or in further conversations with 25 Holtec, the NRC or its staff discovers any way in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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91 1 which there, in fact, is an enforceable commitment or 2 an agreement, that people who have the money will set 3 that money up to pay for the shortfall. I would like 4 to hear about it, and it's quite clear that the 5 Massachusetts Attorney General would also like to 6 hear about it.
7 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you again.
8 MR. TWOMEY: Yes, if I may briefly, Mr.
9 Lampert introduced his remarks by saying that, if we 10 didn't say anything, it meant that we agreed with 11 him. And I can't agree to that, just at least on 12 behalf of Entergy. On behalf of Entergy.
13 MR. KLUKAN: Okay.
14 MR. ROTHSTEIN: Richard Rothstein.
15 Two questions. One for Dr. [Mr.] Watson 16 and one for our Holtec representative, Joy.
17 Dr. [Mr.] Watson, can you qualitatively 18 explain or define, for purposes of releasing the site 19 license, site restoration, what basically is 20 included; what would not be included in the case of 21 the Entergy site? So that people don't get false 22 expectations one way or the other.
23 MR. WATSON: Yes. The Decommissioning 24 Fund requirements from the NRC are for the 25 radiological decommissioning. So, once we would NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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92 1 terminate the license after verifying the 2 radiological conditions of the site -- we have an 3 independent contractor we use in many cases to help 4 us with the surveys and verify the radiological 5 residual radioactive levels at the site -- we would 6 terminate the license. If the site restoration is 7 not in the requirements by NRC, because there's a 8 number of approaches you can take to 9 decommissioning -- many of them take into account 10 removing the buildings and turning it back into 11 greenfield. If they submit that to us in their 12 license termination plan, then that's the plan they 13 follow because it's a license amendment.
14 If they choose to do things which some of 15 the other power plants have done, such as Trojan or 16 Rancho Seco, where they actually terminate the 17 license, but leave buildings and stuff still 18 remaining on the site, that's their choice. And 19 after that, it's up to the owner of the facility or 20 the licensee -- and at that point they're no longer 21 the licensee, but the owner of the property -- and 22 the state, to determine when and where they should do 23 the final decommissioning and site -- I should say 24 final site restoration and what those requirements 25 are.
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93 1 MR. ROTHSTEIN: Okay. Thank you.
2 I had the pleasure of sitting in the 3 Holtec predecisional enforcement conference last 4 Wednesday, I believe it was, the four-hour -- and 5 more nuts and bolts were discussed than I could fit 6 in my car.
7 But I wanted to commend Holtec on its dry 8 cask presentation to the NDCAP last fall. I thought 9 it was very informative, and I believe it's on the 10 NDCAP website.
11 Just expanding upon Ms. Lampert's comment 12 earlier about cracks not being able to be fixed in 13 the multipurpose canister at this day and age, one 14 thing I was envisioning, given that premise, has 15 Holtec, for purposes of future design considerations 16 to remedy that kind of unsolvable problem at the 17 moment, considered constructing a larger multipurpose 18 cask there to go over the cracked cask? And then, 19 of course, that slightly larger cask could be filled 20 with helium gas as a coolant and sealed. And then, 21 that larger cask would then -- or that larger 22 multipurpose cask with the cracked inside of the other 23 cask, multipurpose cask, getting to a larger 24 overpack, if it need be, with the air vents, too.
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94 1 the drawing board from Holtec?
2 MS. J. RUSSELL: That's a very 3 explanation. It's very close to what we've actually 4 designed for recovery of a canister in the event the 5 inspections were to show that there has been a 6 degradation. So, indeed, that is the approach, is 7 to put it into another overpack, but an overpack, not 8 necessarily the canister as you've described. So, 9 you're on the right track, sir. It is definitely an 10 additional overpack that we are going to use.
11 MR. ROTHSTEIN: I'm glad to hear that.
12 Can you tell me who I write to at Holtec to get some 13 royalties?
14 (Laughter.)
15 MS. J. RUSSELL: Right. Royalties and 16 to get on the patent.
17 MS. M. LAMPERT: Can a canister be 18 shipped under current regulations?
19 MR. KLUKAN: Ma'am, are you asking, just 20 so we get it on the transcript, are you asking whether 21 the current canister or the overpack can be shipped?
22 MS. M. LAMPERT: (Off microphone.)
23 MR. KLUKAN: Okay. I just have just 24 given you the microphone.
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95 1 been or a canister which has been compromised or 2 degraded, do the regulations allow it to be shipped, 3 is the question that was posed by Ms. Lampert.
4 MS. J. RUSSELL: The regulation question 5 I defer to the NRC.
6 MR. WATSON: I ask Jason Piotter, who is 7 our Senior Engineer for Spent Fuel Safety, to come up 8 and give you an answer for that.
9 MR. PIOTTER: The regulations are 10 performance-based. And so, if you had a canister 11 that had a demonstrated flaw like you're talking 12 about, there would have to be an engineering analysis 13 that was done to determine what the best way to 14 mitigate that particular flaw would be. I can't 15 answer the question right now whether or not it would 16 be allowed to be shipped because we don't have any 17 scenarios where there are flaws such as you describe.
18 So, it's a case-by-case basis, depending upon what 19 the situation is for the canister that you're talking 20 about. But it would have to be evaluated prior to 21 transport. I couldn't just be put into a transport 22 overpack and sent. So, it would have to be an 23 engineering analysis prior to that activity.
24 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
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96 1 Holtec in San Onofre because it could be our future.
2 Diane Turco with Cape Downwinders.
3 At San Onofre, they've been loading, 4 Holtec has been loading canisters in underground 5 vaults on the beach. The sea-level rise is 6 eventually going to leak into the bottom of those 7 vaults. They have been loading them and scratching 8 them. And there was a special inspection by the 9 Nuclear Regulatory Commission 10 experience/songs-spec-insp-activities-cask-loading-12 misalignment.htmland it sounded almost like 13 Entergy's special inspection report, pretty much the 14 same.
15 So, I want to know. And the people in 16 California have said, "Let them know the public in 17 Southern California is asking the Holtec System to be 18 recalled." It's a lemon, and Holtec is making 19 loading errors due to mismanagement and bad 20 engineering design that the NRC admits it cannot fix.
21 So, that's what's happening out in California.
22 So, I have two questions. No. 1, how can 23 you come to the NDCAP meeting and say that Holtec has 24 an impeccable safety record when this was all exposed 25 by a whistleblower?
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97 1 And No. 2, would you conduct an 2 environmental impact study, including sea-level rise 3 and acts of malfeasance on the spent fuel pad?
4 MS. J. RUSSELL: Can you repeat the first 5 question again?
6 MS. TURCO: Let me try it this way: how 7 could you with a straight face tell the NDCAP that 8 Holtec has an impeccable safety record when we know 9 what's going on at San Onofre?
10 MS. J. RUSSELL: I appreciate the 11 question. I understand your concern.
12 Let me just state, Holtec does have an 13 impeccable safety record. And the issue that 14 happened at San Onofre, which was reported by the 15 licensee who is the Southern California Edison 16 Nuclear Plant, they went through their process. So, 17 Holtec does have an impeccable safety record. I 18 absolutely can emphatically say that.
19 MS. TURCO: Did Southern Edison report 20 this incident when it happened to the NRC?
21 MS. J. RUSSELL: Those questions are 22 best --
23 MS. TURCO: Okay. No, they did not.
24 MS. J. RUSSELL: -- to the Southern 25 California --
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98 1 MS. TURCO: And you can look up on the 2 record they did not. No. Actually, the NRC 3 initiated the special inspection, right, Mr. Watson?
4 MR. WATSON: From what I understand, the 5 licensee was a little late in responding to --
6 MS. TURCO: Yes.
7 MR. WATSON: -- the requirements. And 8 so, based on that, we escalated our inspections to --
9 MS. TURCO: Thank you.
10 MR. WATSON: -- evaluate the situation.
11 MS. TURCO: Thank you. It was a 12 whistleblower.
13 MR. WATSON: But it was not a 14 whistleblower that submitted the complaint.
15 MR. TWOMEY: This is Mike Twomey, on 16 behalf of Entergy.
17 One thing, I think, just to clear up any 18 confusion for those who don't know as much about the 19 issues as some of the recent speakers. One thing 20 that's important to note here is that, if Entergy 21 remains the owner of the facility, we will be using 22 the Holtec dry fuel storage system. If Holtec 23 becomes the owner, they will be using the Holtec dry 24 fuel storage system. So, the license transfer will 25 have no impact on what system is used at Pilgrim for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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99 1 storing spent nuclear fuel. It will be the Holtec 2 dry fuel storage system that we use or they use.
3 And I don't know how that relates to the 4 scope of this particular proceeding, but I do want to 5 make sure that people understand that it's not an 6 "either/or". It's not like, if Holtec becomes the 7 owner, that's the only circumstance under which the 8 Holtec system will be used. That very same system 9 will be used if we remain the owner.
10 I just wanted to clear that up for 11 anybody who may not understand that.
12 MS. TURCO: Right. Yes. Thank you.
13 Right. Because the point is it's both mismanagement, 14 poor equipment, ongoing problems.
15 But the second question was, would an 16 environmental impact study include sea-level rise and 17 acts of malfeasance on the ISFSI pad?
18 MS. J. RUSSELL: First, I want to 19 emphatically state that the system that's in use at 20 San Onofre is markedly different than the one that's 21 in use at Pilgrim. You're comparing apples to 22 oranges. It is correct. It's an above-ground system 23 versus an underground system.
24 MS. TURCO: Oh, no, no. That's not my 25 question.
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100 1 MS. J. RUSSELL: And not the dry storage 2 system.
3 MS. TURCO: That's not my question.
4 MS. J. RUSSELL: And therefore --
5 MS. TURCO: That's not my question.
6 MS. J. RUSSELL: -- there isn't a 7 probability of an issue as you have at San Onofre 8 with water collection in the bottom of the system.
9 MS. TURCO: Okay.
10 MS. J. RUSSELL: It can't happen because 11 they are two different systems.
12 MS. TURCO: Right. But what I'm asking 13 is, would you include sea-level rise for the property, 14 as Pine spoke about, and storm surges, and acts of 15 malfeasance? That's my question.
16 MS. J. RUSSELL: So, the dry storage 17 systems are licensed under Part 72, and they're 18 deployed under Part 72 currently. And they're 19 already being deployed in accordance with the 20 regulatory requirements. There's no additional 21 investigation or analyses that need to be performed 22 for the dry storage systems.
23 MR. KLUKAN: I gave the women a back-and-24 forth. But, if you know you're going to keep talking, 25 just, for the sake of our poor transcriptionist -- he NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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101 1 is not the object of your concern. So, let's make 2 his life easier. So, just speak into the microphone 3 when you're asking questions. Okay?
4 And the question there was, would you 5 include sea-level risk and acts of malfeasance in an 6 environmental assessment or impact statement?
7 MS. J. RUSSELL: We'll meet the 8 regulations. The dry spent fuel storage system is 9 already deployed and it will continue to be deployed, 10 no matter whether this license transfer application 11 occurs or not. I don't understand the question of 12 the need for additional environmental studies related 13 to dry storage.
14 MS. TURCO: You're building a new storage 15 facility there, a brand-new storage facility. Right 16 now, you can drive onto the property, pass the "no 17 trespassing" signs, and eyeball the dry casks. Now 18 you're moving them closer to Rocky Hill Road. We 19 need to be assured that there's going to be some 20 increased security there. So, that's just a 21 question. Are you going to be looking at acts of 22 malfeasance when you do the new pad?
23 MS. J. RUSSELL: The security that's 24 already at the nuclear plant, I allow Entergy to talk 25 to. The security of the dry storage system, under NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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102 1 the license under Part 72, has already been 2 established. There's no additional requirements that 3 need to be addressed.
4 MS. HALTER: This is Mandy Halter, on 5 behalf of Entergy.
6 The independent spent fuel storage 7 installation facilities are required to be secure.
8 And with the newly-located pad, there will continue 9 to be a physical barrier behind an intrusion detection 10 system, and monitored 24/7 by armed security.
11 And that's correct; that's all I can talk 12 about, due to safeguards.
13 MS. LYNCH-BENTTININ: Sheila Lynch 14 Benttinin, Duxbury.
15 I have a question about regional public 16 safety. In the last 40-plus years, Entergy was 17 required to do a regional public safety plan, and 18 they've applied with their PSDAR to abandon that 19 regional planning. And we are concerned about Holtec 20 taking over. What is your plans for notifying 21 regional safety folks, like firemen, et cetera, on 22 safety, particularly with the expedited four-year 23 plan that you presented tonight?
24 MS. STERDIS: This is Andrea Sterdis.
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103 1 regulation. And I want to emphasize that it is 2 Holtec's top priority to maintain the health and 3 safety of the public.
4 MS. LYNCH-BENTTININ: But what I'm 5 asking, in particular, is, what is your plan to reach 6 out to regional safety folks, like firemen and 7 regional coordinators, as your expedited four-year 8 plan is ongoing?
9 MS. STERDIS: And again, I will emphasize 10 that we will maintain the health and safety of the 11 public, and we will be complying with all regulations.
12 MS. LYNCH-BENTTININ: And my second 13 question is, can NRC add to their PSDAR another level 14 of regional safety outreach to public safety 15 officials?
16 MR. WATSON: If I understand your 17 question correctly, there's no need to add anything.
18 Because the site is still going to maintain an 19 emergency plan and emergency response capabilities, 20 along with security response plans, which have those 21 communication tools in them that they're required to 22 have. So, they're going to continue those things 23 until the decommissioning is complete. So, there's 24 really no need to change those plans.
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104 1 regional plan. I'm not familiar with it. It was not 2 an NRC requirement that I know of. But there are 3 requirements for notification and security/police 4 support; also, fire protection and fire response, 5 medical emergencies and medical responses to the 6 site. And so, those things all stay in place.
7 MS. LYNCH-BENTTININ: But Entergy has 8 requested that they be discontinued in the regional 9 capacity.
10 MR. WATSON: All I know is they have to 11 meet the minimum requirements for the NRC, which means 12 they will maintain the ability to talk with, get 13 notification of the response capabilities from local 14 and state law enforcement. They will continue to 15 deal with, communicate with the local fire 16 departments and rescue squads.
17 MS. LYNCH-BENTTININ: Would they be 18 required to coordinate --
19 MR. WATSON: The regional, there's no NRC 20 requirement for a regional response plan.
21 MS. LYNCH-BENTTININ: Okay.
22 MR. WATSON: There is one for the 23 immediate location around the plant.
24 MS. LYNCH-BENTTININ: Thank you.
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105 1 Action Center.
2 I'm getting really agitated because this 3 really matters a lot to me. And if I understand what 4 Diane is bringing up correctly, and your response, 5 Ms. Russell -- it's kind of hard to read your name 6 tag from here; sorry if I got that wrong -- it's that 7 we have rapidly upchanging data on climate change, 8 the impacts of sea-level rise that are getting worse 9 every time they're updated. We have someone in the 10 White House who's changing world politics and 11 dynamics rapidly, and we are living in an age in which 12 terrorism is ever present. And we want to know, are 13 you willing to go above and beyond, if necessary, or 14 are you only willing to do as much as -- like the 15 floor of what's required?
16 Because what I hear Diane asking is, are 17 you willing to go above and beyond to protect our 18 health, our community? And what I hear you saying 19 back is, "We're doing with it what's written. We're 20 just going to do what's necessary, what the law is."
21 Am I understanding correctly? You're committing to 22 the floor?
23 MR. WATSON: I just want to respond to 24 that, and that the NRC regulations fully provide for 25 safety for the people working at the plant, the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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106 1 public, and the environment. And so, complying with 2 those is one demonstration that the plant is 3 maintained safe, and we'll continue to inspect that 4 plant against those requirements.
5 MS. MILLER: I have no doubt that the NRC 6 is doing the best that it can to protect the health 7 and safety of my community. I also know that we're 8 in a rapidly-changing world. And I am interested to 9 know if Holtec is committing to the floor of what the 10 NRC -- like where we're at the last time those laws 11 were passed, those statutes, those regulatory 12 processes we went through, those elaborate commenting 13 periods, or if they're committing to respond to an 14 ever-present, fast-changing world of climate change 15 and terrorism.
16 MS. J. RUSSELL: I think what you're 17 asking me is, am I confident that our dry spent fuel 18 storage system is safe.
19 MS. MILLER: No, that's not what I'm 20 asking you at all. It's not what I'm asking you at 21 all.
22 MS. J. RUSSELL: I am personally 23 convinced -- I am a nuclear engineer. I am part of 24 the design team that designed this dry storage system.
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107 1 that we have gone above and beyond to ensure that we 2 selected materials --
3 MS. MILLER: I am --
4 MS. J. RUSSELL: -- that we've selected 5 the methodologies, and we have done the absolute 6 utmost we can to ensure the health and safety.
7 MS. MILLER: I have no doubt that you're 8 sincere --
9 MS. J. RUSSELL: May I please finish?
10 I live by these nuclear plants as well, 11 and I am confident that, when I go to visit these 12 plants -- I live by these plants; I live by where our 13 dry storage systems are deployed -- I am personally 14 confident that my company has done everything it can 15 to go above and beyond. And therefore, I have 16 answered your question.
17 MS. MILLER: That wasn't my question in 18 the slightest. I do believe you're 100 percent 19 sincere when you say that. I also believe that the 20 engineers who worked on Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, 21 and Fukushima were also really sincere in believing 22 that their plants were safe as well.
23 I just want to say for the record you 24 didn't answer my question.
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108 1 again.
2 My question is to Holtec. As I 3 understand the fund, it can go up and down. It's 4 like a 401(k), right? It's an investment vehicle.
5 What happens if it goes down? And also, could you, 6 would you sue the Department of Energy, as others 7 have done, for failing to take the waste offsite?
8 Would you plan to do that? Are you?
9 MR. WATSON: Well, let me respond to the 10 first part. Yes, there are market changes. The 11 Trust Fund is in an independent trust with an 12 independent trustee. Most of them are with Mellon 13 Bank of New York. So, the trustee has certain 14 requirements on them to make conservative investments 15 to protect the fund.
16 Secondly, all the licensees that are 17 storing fuel -- I'll say broadly "everyone" -- has 18 the ability to request or sue, if they have to, the 19 Department of Energy to get the cost back for the 20 storage of the nuclear fuel. So, I'm sure Entergy 21 has done that in the past for their plants. I'm sure 22 Holtec will do the same to recoup the costs. Those 23 costs are, then, available for doing other activities 24 at the sites. And so, that's part of the agreement 25 with the federal government.
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109 1 MR. KELLERMAN: Thank you.
2 MS. LAMPERT: Two points. NRC is giving 3 exemptions. So, the DTF can be used for spent fuel 4 management costs. Now go back. The Decommissioning 5 Trust Fund was established when we were a utility 6 structure -- Boston Edison was the owner -- by 7 ratepayers. Since that time, it's grown from 8 investments. Entergy didn't put a dime in it.
9 Holtec won't put a dime in it. Okay?
10 Then, they will sue DOE to recoup what 11 they've spent on spent fuel management costs, okay, 12 what they've spent by taking it out of the 13 Decommissioning Trust Fund. But, then, when they get 14 the money out of DOE, there's no requirement to put 15 it back. If there is, please correct me and give me 16 the regulation. Instead, they put it in their 17 pocket. And that's, you know, if I were Holtec, I'd 18 say, "I'm going to make a pile of money doing this."
19 And that's part of the incentive to take over the 20 license.
21 It would seem to me that the NRC would 22 get on the stick and make some sort of 23 requirement/regulation that it goes back into the 24 Decommissioning Trust Fund to refurbish what they 25 have taken out. Because there's no requirement?
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110 1 Correct that.
2 And then, I just want to sum up by saying, 3 the points brought forward on sea-level rise, the 4 points brought forward on the increased risk of 5 terrorism, of cyberattack -- now that's a big one 6 when you think of the spent fuel pool. All these new 7 and significant information that you should be 8 responsible, NRC require that they do a NEPA review, 9 and then, not say what is blatant foolish. It's a 10 lie to say the 2002 Generic Environmental Impact 11 Statement and the 2006 Impact Statement done during 12 relicensing bound environmental impact, so we can all 13 skip along and say it's a clean site; we've done our 14 job. So, they really don't have to spend a dime, and 15 all the stuff can go in Cape Cod Bay. Dilution is 16 the solution.
17 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
18 MR. WATSON: I just want to make one 19 comment, that the Decommissioning Funds that are -- or 20 excuse me -- the spent fuel funds that are recuperated 21 from the Department of Energy, I think it's 50.82, 22 Mike, in the regulations, the fund. The money goes 23 back into the fund. No? It doesn't? Okay.
24 PARTICIPANT: It goes to the company.
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111 1 them to make money.
2 MR. WATSON: Okay. Well, I'm sorry. I 3 appreciate the comment then. We have to look at 4 that.
5 MR. KLUKAN: Before you begin, is there 6 anyone else in the audience who has not yet had an 7 opportunity to speak who would like to do so?
8 (No response.)
9 Okay, please. Would you mind letting her 10 go first? Okay. Thank you, sir.
11 Your name for the record, please.
12 MS. GARRY: Joanne Garry. I live a mile 13 from the plant. I've been here since I was 16. So, 14 I saw it built by people that shouldn't be building 15 it. But that's not my question.
16 My question is twofold. First of all, 17 Entergy owns it, correct? Got the license. Owns all 18 the property. How much is it worth? What's the 19 property worth? What did Entergy get or might get 20 from Holtec, the cost, the dollars? Are you selling 21 it for money? So, there's no money exchange?
22 Entergy walks away. Holtec, if it gets the license, 23 walks in, correct?
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112 1 horrible thing to fix? We've got thousands of people 2 on the line. So, what's the deal? Why are you doing 3 this? No answer?
4 MS. STERDIS: This is Andrea Sterdis, and 5 I will make this a personal response.
6 As a mother of two children and a 7 grandmother of four children, I am committed to us 8 doing in this industry what is right. And that is 9 to take care of our plants when they're past their 10 operational life expectancy and to turn that property 11 back into a useful piece of property in the community.
12 So, that is my personal reason for being involved in 13 this project.
14 MS. GARRY: But it's in it for the money.
15 So, the money, you're going to own 12,000 acres.
16 Twelve hundred acres. You've got a big hill there 17 that hasn't been developed. Why not move all this 18 terrible spent fuel to the top of the hill? If you're 19 going to move it; move it, move it away from the ocean 20 or bury it in the hill -- I don't know -- a better 21 solution than moving it next to Rocky Hill Road, which 22 I go by every day. So, I mean, it just seems simple 23 solution. If you can't move it away, move in a safer 24 area.
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113 1 bucks here. So, we want to be safe.
2 That's all I have to say.
3 MR. KLUKAN: Before we begin, because we 4 do have -- I'm sorry for interrupting you again, sir.
5 Just because we do have extra time -- I don't usually 6 intervene like this, but I think there's some 7 confusion out there regarding what's the financial 8 arrangement between -- and I'm not asking in specific 9 terms -- but what's the financial relationship 10 between Holtec and Entergy?
11 And I think the question was asked like, 12 how would Holtec benefit from this transaction? And 13 I think if we could answer that, that would go a long 14 way to clearing up some of the confusion in the 15 audience.
16 MR. TWOMEY: This is Mike Twomey for 17 Entergy. I'll address the specific question of the 18 way the transaction is structured.
19 Entergy is receiving only nominal 20 consideration. And I have to say I don't have the 21 number in front of me. We just recently closed the 22 Vermont Yankee transaction, and the nominal 23 consideration there was a thousand dollars.
24 And we receive nominal consideration.
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114 1 buying Entergy Nuclear Generation Company through an 2 equity sale. They get that company which owns the 3 plant, has the Decommissioning Trust Fund and the 4 liability for the decommissioning.
5 So, what Entergy gets out of the 6 transaction is a thousand dollars. And we are no 7 longer involved in the decommissioning of the plant, 8 in the same way that Boston Edison is not involved in 9 the decommissioning of the plant. All right. We're 10 going to transfer that responsibility to Holtec, and 11 Holtec will receive the project, the plant, the 12 Decommissioning Trust Fund, and the work associated 13 with it.
14 And I'll let Holtec describe why they 15 would be willing to take this work on, as other 16 companies have taken it on in other parts of the 17 country.
18 MS. J. RUSSELL: Again, this is Joy 19 Russell from Holtec.
20 Holtec is, and has been for 30 years, an 21 industry leader in safe and secure storage of spent 22 nuclear fuel. We also have other business endeavors 23 such as designing a small modular reactor. And as 24 we've pointed out this evening, we also have submitted 25 an application to establish a consolidated interim NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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115 1 storage facility in southeast New Mexico.
2 Holtec is committed to the nuclear 3 industry. And unfortunately, part of that also 4 includes the safe decommissioning of nuclear power 5 plants.
6 We recently built our third manufacturing 7 facility here in the United States. We now have 1.4 8 million square feet of manufacturing here in the 9 United States. We're the largest exporter of nuclear 10 products. And again, that's a demonstration of our 11 commitment to the nuclear industry.
12 So, that is Holtec's reason for taking 13 the next step and to acquire shuttered nuclear plants 14 and to safely decommission those; and to take the 15 ownership of the spent nuclear fuel, which is also 16 our core expertise, and to manage that as it remains 17 either onsite or is moved to New Mexico.
18 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
19 And thank you, sir, for indulging me for 20 that minute.
21 MR. ROTHSTEIN: I've got all the time in 22 the world.
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116 1 last November, as originally envisioned, and that 2 final promulgation would have taken place sometime in 3 the first half of this year. Notwithstanding the 4 current government shutdown, what is NRC's [estimated 5 time of arrival] ETA for when it was envisioning 6 getting these proposed and final regulations out?
7 And a second question is, licensees who 8 have submitted their PSDARs, even if they're in the 9 process of being evaluated, or the NRC said, okay, 10 they're good enough, so you can start the 11 decommissioning process once the plant is permanently 12 shut down, would existing licensees in those 13 circumstances get grandfathered separate from the new 14 regulations for decommissioning? Or would it be 15 like, for example, a post-Fukushima, where the NRC 16 says, okay, we've come up with this and the new 17 regulations; therefore, all licensees must do blank, 18 blank, blank for decommissioning, regardless of what 19 was in your PSDAR?
20 MR. WATSON: Let me respond to the 21 rulemaking schedule. The proposed decommissioning 22 rulemaking that's been in progress over the last few 23 years, the staff made its scheduled requirement to 24 submit to the Commission the proposed rules and the 25 basis for those proposed rules back in May. As many NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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117 1 of you may know, we also had two new Commissioners 2 appointed by the Administration. And based on that, 3 they've been taking care of the backlog of information 4 or voting issues that they have on their plate.
5 So, the staff is waiting for the 6 Commission to do their job. So, it's the 7 Commission's priority to address their work at their 8 own schedule. So, the staff is waiting for the 9 Commission to vote on it. We have not received a 10 schedule of when that vote is to take place. And so, 11 we are basically at the mercy of the Commission for 12 meeting the time limit requirements they had 13 originally placed on us to have these rules in place 14 by the end of 2019 rm/doc-collections/rulemaking-16 ruleforum/active/RuleDetails.html?id=49.
17 So, we will, hopefully, resolve the issue 18 with a Commission vote. That will give us the 19 direction on how we are to proceed with the proposed 20 rules.
21 One of the proposed evaluations was 22 looking at the PSDARs. If there is a change in the 23 regulations that the Commission wants concerning the 24 PSDARs, then we will issue the regulations and the 25 guidance with that. And anybody that would come out NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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118 1 in the future would have to comply with the new 2 regulations. Since the plants that are already in 3 decommission have submitted their PSDAR, if they were 4 to revise that, we would believe they would have to, 5 at least I would believe that they would have to 6 comply with the new requirements.
7 So, I think I answered both questions.
8 But we're at the mercy of the Commission and their 9 vote scheduling. And apparently, they have more 10 pressing issues than the decommissioning rulemaking.
11 MR. LAMPERT: Jim Lampert, Duxbury.
12 I've spent a lot of time thinking and 13 trying to figure out the answer to the question why 14 would Holtec get into this. And in addition to the 15 fact that it's your business, I think the obvious 16 answer is they expect to make a profit.
17 And if you ask yourself on what basis do 18 they expect to make this profit, a number of things 19 that I think are fairly clear, if you look at the 20 whole picture, come to mind. And to the extent 21 anybody, Holtec disagrees with me, and you think you 22 can, consistent with the limitations of what you can 23 say, correct me; please do so.
24 The first is they obviously think they're 25 a great deal more efficient at doing this type of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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119 1 thing than Entergy ever will be.
2 The second is they want to get the 3 decommissioning done early to avoid the risk of 4 drastically-increasing costs that could 5 be -- "destructive" is a nice word -- if they waited 6 the period of that Entergy was planning to wait.
7 The third is that I was told by a Holtec 8 representative that their profit is included in the 9 costs you see in their PSDAR.
10 And last, just talking to various people 11 in the industry, my understanding is that, before 12 someone will get into something like this, they really 13 need a fairly clear path to what they see as a 25- to 14 35-percent profit.
15 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
16 MS. CARPENTER: Susan Carpenter with Cape 17 Downwinders.
18 This has nothing to do with money, but it 19 has to do with ethics. Recently, I know that Holtec 20 changed the design of its casks for San Onofre and 21 did not notify anyone, and that it really took 22 Southern California Edison and Entergy by surprise.
23 And I'm wondering if Holtec, having basically gotten 24 away with it because it was eventually approved, if 25 they feel that they can do that here or if there's a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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120 1 likelihood they'll do that in the future, and we'll 2 end up with something different than what we've 3 negotiated for.
4 MS. J. RUSSELL: The statements that you 5 just made I need to disagree with. They're 6 incorrect. I'll correct them.
7 The design of the system was not changed 8 for San Onofre 9 experience/songs-spec-insp-activities-cask-loading-11 misalignment.html.
12 Actually, the amount of time it would 13 take me to actually correct all of your statements is 14 going to exceed the time we have, and I would hate to 15 do that, so that other speakers to have an opportunity 16 to speak.
17 I'd recommend that you go and listen to 18 the NRC's [pre-decisional enforcement conference] PEC 19 Conference that was held last Wednesday, the 9th of 20 January. It explains the entire process. But you've 21 incorrectly characterized that.
22 MS. CARPENTER: May I send you the 23 article where I got the information?
24 MS. J. RUSSELL: I didn't hear what she 25 said.
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121 1 MR. KLUKAN: May she send you the article 2 where she learned of this information?
3 MS. J. RUSSELL: Absolutely.
4 MS. JANDA: Just to clarify for the 5 transcript, the PEC video -- I hope I'm not restating 6 this -- is available on the NRC website. I think 7 it's video.nrc.gov, will be the quickest way of 8 getting there [3].
9 MS. CARPENTER: This is the Orange County 10 Register. The title is, "NRC and Holtec to Face Off 11 Publicly Over Redesign of Spent Fuel Canisters at San 12 Onofre Plant".
13 I wonder if, are they wrong in their 14 headline?
15 MS. J. RUSSELL: I'm sorry, re-read the 16 headline again?
17 MS. CARPENTER: "NRC and Holtec to Face 18 Off Publicly Over Redesign of Spent Fuel Canisters at 19 San Onofre Plant" 20 holtec-to-face-off-publicly-over-redesign-of-spent-22 fuel-canisters-at-san-onofre-plant/.
23 MS. J. RUSSELL: The headline is 24 misleading. We didn't redesign the canister for San 25 Onofre. And again, it's a lengthy discussion, and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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122 1 it's all captured in a video from the PEC Conference 2 on January 9th, where Holtec had a meeting at the NRC 3 Headquarters.
4 MS. CARPENTER: From what I understood, 5 they have a difference in the canisters. But it was 6 aware of, down at the bottom there were bolts added, 7 and that design was only discovered when one of the 8 bolts was loose in the canister.
9 MS. J. RUSSELL: Again, you're making 10 misstatements, and we could go back and forth all 11 evening on this. I recommend that you get your facts 12 from this PEC video from the January 9th meeting.
13 MS. CARPENTER: Okay. And I will recheck 14 with the newspaper as well.
15 Thank you.
16 MR. KLUKAN: Thank you.
17 MR. DELAFIELD: This is Lawrence 18 Delafield again.
19 I didn't really get an answer to my 20 question. So, I'd like to restate it in a slightly 21 different way.
22 The question -- and it was a 23 question -- is there any way at this point in this 24 process that we could require that the material be 25 removed and put in a secure facility someplace else, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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123 1 such as you're talking about doing in New Mexico, and 2 get it away from the community? Because we will not 3 be safe until that happens. Or, if that's not the 4 case, is there any way to give an incentive so that 5 it gets removed faster and moved to another location?
6 I did not receive an answer to that. So, I'd 7 appreciate getting an answer.
8 Thank you.
9 MR. TWOMEY: This is Mike Twomey, on 10 behalf of Entergy. I'll answer that because we're 11 the current owner of the facility.
12 I believe what your question is when you 13 talk about the material, you're referring to the spent 14 nuclear fuel. And the answer to that is, the United 15 States Federal Government is responsible for removing 16 the spent nuclear fuels from the Pilgrim site and 17 every other nuclear site in the country. And the 18 federal government has repeatedly breached its 19 obligation to do so. And many of us have been 20 required, not personally, but Entergy has been 21 required to sue the federal government for failing to 22 fulfill its obligation.
23 So, the only answer I can give you is 24 that -- I know there were some representatives of 25 some federal Congressmen here tonight -- it is to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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124 1 talk to them about when the federal government is 2 going to fulfill its obligation to remove spent 3 nuclear fuel from the Pilgrim site as well as the 4 other sites in the U.S.
5 MR. KLUKAN: All right. So, it's 8:47.
6 We're scheduled to go to 9:00 p.m.
7 Is there anyone who would like, who has 8 not yet spoken who would like to make any additional 9 comments before we close this out?
10 (No response.)
11 Going once, going twice. All right.
12 Before I turn it over to Bruce to close 13 out the meeting, I would just like to thank all of 14 you for attending, personally from the facilitators, 15 and to say, out on the registration table there are 16 feedback forms. Donna and I would greatly appreciate 17 you filling those out. We use your feedback in trying 18 to make these meetings better in terms of public 19 process. So, please take a couple of minutes to do 20 so.
21 And with that, I'll turn it over to Bruce.
22 Thank you.
23 MR. WATSON: Well, the first thing I want 24 to thank you for is coming out tonight. I know this 25 is an important issue to many of you.
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125 1 Your comments will inform the staff on 2 the NRC's review of the PSDAR. I heard some very 3 good comments for our consideration. And then, when 4 we look at the license transfer request and the 5 application and its PSDAR, those comments can also be 6 taken into account there.
7 As a reminder, you could provide written 8 comments, I believe it's through March 21st. We will 9 be publishing The Federal Register notice on the 10 license transfer when the rest of the federal 11 government goes back to work. The comment period, 12 again, is going to be 30 days for that and 20 days 13 for hearings. So, you're hearing about it early 14 before the notice is published. So, we look forward 15 to your comments.
16 Again, I want to thank you for your 17 comments and questions. We will be, at least I will 18 be, and a couple of the other NRC will be, at the 19 Massachusetts Nuclear Decommissioning Citizens 20 Advisory Panel tomorrow evening. So, I'm sure we'll 21 be having some more discussions on the topic.
22 So, with that, I would thank our 23 panelists and our presenters for their presentations 24 and in answering questions where we could.
25 With that, I would adjourn the meeting.
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126 1 Thank you very much.
2 (Whereupon, at 8:49 p.m., the meeting was 3 adjourned.)
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