ML19119A072
| ML19119A072 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Pilgrim |
| Issue date: | 04/29/2019 |
| From: | NRC Region 1 |
| To: | |
| Dimitriadis A | |
| References | |
| NRC-0277 | |
| Download: ML19119A072 (98) | |
Text
Memo to File: April 29, 2019 Attached is the transcript of the Annual Assessment Meeting for Pilgrim Nuclear Power Station held on March 26, 2019.
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
2019 Pilgrim Annual Assessment Meeting Docket Number:
(n/a)
Location:
Plymouth, Massachusetts Date:
Tuesday, March 26, 2019 Work Order No.:
NRC-0277 Pages 1-96 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 ML19119A072
1 UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 1
+ + + + +
2 2019 PILGRIM ANNUAL ASSESSMENT MEETING 3
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4 TUESDAY 5
MARCH 26, 2019 6
+ + + + +
7 The meeting was convened in Hotel 8
1620, 180 Water Street, Plymouth, Massachusetts, 9
Donna Janda, Facilitator, presiding.
10 PRESENT:
11 ELISE BURKET, Senior Resident Inspector, 12 Pilgrim Nuclear Power Station 13 ANTHONY DIMITRIADIS, Branch Chief, Projects 14 Branch 5 15 DAVID LEW, Regional Administrator, Region I 16 BRUCE WATSON, Chief, Reactor Decommissioning 17 Branch 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S 1
NRC Introduction and Opening Remarks 2
by Donna Janda 3
3 NRC Discussion of NRC Oversight 4
by David Lew and Anthony Dimitriadis
... 11 5
Public Q&A Session with NRC........... 18 6
NRC Closing Remarks 7
by David Lew
............... 95 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 1
MS. JANDA: Good evening, everyone. We're 2
going to go ahead and get started if everyone could 3
take a seat. Hello and welcome to the Pilgrim Nuclear 4
Power Station annual assessment meeting.
5 My name is Donna Janda and tonight I'll be 6
serving as the facilitator for this meeting. And 7
Brett Klukan who is over in the corner to my right 8
over there will be helping me out with this task 9
tonight.
10 So here's how, before we do anything I 11 just want to talk about exits really quick. If you 12 could for a regular exit just use those middle doors.
13 Is that okay, sorry, okay?
14 So just use those middle doors right 15 there. The front doors and the back doors right there 16 on the side are locked at this time.
17 But in the event of an emergency we have 18 the doors on the side, the doors to the back and the 19 doors to my left which are to the kitchen area and 20 that can take you outside also. So in an emergency 21 any of the doors.
22 But right now if you need to go out or use 23 a restroom or you want to sign up to speak please use 24 those middle doors right there. So here's how the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 meeting is going to be structured tonight.
1 We're going to begin with the presentation 2
by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission of the assessment 3
of safety performance at the Pilgrim Nuclear Power 4
Station for 2018. The remainder of the meeting will 5
be an opportunity for members of the public to ask the 6
assembled NRC staff questions concerning performance 7
issues at Pilgrim or to present comments regarding the 8
same.
9 With respect to the second half of the 10 meeting, on the registration table just outside the 11 doors to the meeting room there's a sign up sheet for 12 public speakers. When you register to speak you'll 13 receive a ticket and the other half of which we 14 collected in the container that's currently at the 15 registration table.
16 The speaking order will be determined by 17 the numbers that are pulled from the container and the 18 intent of which is that the speaker order be at 19 random. Just so you have some advance warning of when 20 it's your turn to speak we'll be posting the numbers 21 on the screen over here to my right as they are 22 selected.
23 And I'd like to thank Matt and Pete over 24 here to my left for assisting me with that. So if you 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5 would like to speak this evening and haven't already 1
done so please step outside through those middle doors 2
and add your name to the list prior to the end of the 3
NRC's presentation.
4 Once we resume with the second half of the 5
meeting we're not going to add any more tickets to the 6
container. But if you then decide you do want to 7
speak, you know, and you register late you will have 8
an opportunity to speak if the container has been 9
exhausted and if time otherwise permits.
10 For your awareness, the meeting tonight is 11 being recorded and a transcript will be generated 12 after the meeting. Both the audio and the transcript 13 will be posted to the NRC website.
14 So in light of that I would ask that when 15 it is your turn to speak that you please identify 16 yourself. And I would also ask for the sake of the 17 audio recording that people not speak over each other.
18 I would ask also that we keep the area 19 beyond the front row clear. If you have something 20 that you would like to give to the NRC staff please 21 hand it to me or to Brett.
22 Now for some basic ground rules, while 23 recognizing that many of you have strongly held 24 opinions concerning the matters to be discussed 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 tonight I ask that you nonetheless adhere to civil 1
decorum, that you respect each other.
2 So please do not disrupt each other. Just 3
as you wouldn't want to be interrupted during your 4
three minutes at the microphone please respect the 5
speaking time of others.
6 Threatening gestures or statements will 7
under no circumstances be tolerated and will be cause 8
for immediate ejection from the meeting. If you feel 9
that you've been threatened please let me know or 10 please tell one of the NRC staff present at this 11 meeting.
12 So a few minor housekeeping matters. The 13 restrooms are located through those middle doors and 14 they are straight across that hallway where the tables 15 are for registration. And as I mentioned already 16 where the exits are.
17 And while cameras are permitted please try 18 not to obstruct the view of other audience members and 19 if you would be so kind to please silence your cell 20 phones at this time.
21 At this point I would like to offer 22 elected officials or any official representatives of 23 any elected officials that are here tonight on their 24 behalf the opportunity to stand and be recognized.
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7 So is there anyone who just wants to 1
introduce themselves?
2 MR. MURATORE: Good evening. I'm Matthew 3
Muratore, State Rep for Plymouth.
4 MS. JANDA: Good evening.
5 MR. MURATORE: And with me is Kathleen 6
LaNatra, State Rep for the 12th Plymouth District that 7
includes Plymouth and Monica Mullen is here from Vinny 8
DeMacedo's office.
9 MS. JANDA: Thank you. Any other elected 10 officials who want to be recognized at this point?
11 Okay. So at this point I'm going to introduce the NRC 12 staff that's assembled on the dais here.
13 I will start with David Lew. Mr. Lew is 14 the Regional Administrator for NRC Region 1. Prior to 15 that he served as the Deputy Regional Administrator 16 for Region 1 and had been in that role since January 17 2011.
18 Prior to his appointment to the NRC Senior 19 Executive Service in February of 2004 he was a 20 resident inspector at Oyster Creek and Indian Point 2 21 and a senior resident inspector at Indian Point 3.
22 To Mr. Lew's left is Anthony Dimitriadis.
23 Mr. Dimitriadis is the Branch Chief of Project Branch 24 5 which is responsible for oversight of Pilgrim and 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 FitzPatrick Nuclear Plants.
1 Mr. Dimitriadis had previously served as 2
Branch Chief of Projects Branch 1 responsible for 3
oversight of Calvert Cliffs, Nine Mile Point and Ginna 4
(phonetic). Previous to that he served as Branch 5
Chief of Plant Support Branch in the Division of 6
Reactor Safety managing inspections associated with 7
security and emergency preparedness.
8 Mr. Dimitriadis has worked for the NRC 9
Region 1 for 28 years and has previously served as an 10 inspector and senior inspector. He graduated from 11 Drexel University with a Bachelor of Science degree in 12 Physics.
13 And to Mr. Dimitriadis's left is Elise 14 Burket. Ms. Burket is the Senior Resident Inspector 15 at Pilgrim. Prior to that Ms. Burket worked as a 16 reactor inspector in the Division of Reactor Safety in 17 Region 1.
18 Prior to joining the NRC in 2008, Ms.
19 Burket served as a nuclear surface warfare officer in 20 the U.S. Navy for seven years. She currently is a 21 Lieutenant Commander in the Navy Reserves and serves 22 as the officer in charge of her reserve unit.
23 She was recalled to active duty in 2015 24 for a 10 month deployment to the Middle East. And to 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 Ms. Burket's left is Mr. Bruce Watson.
1 Mr. Watson is the Chief of the Reactor 2
Decommissioning Branch in the Division of 3
Decommissioning, Uranium Recovery and Waste Programs 4
in the Office of Nuclear Materials Safety and 5
Safeguards.
6 He has been with the NRC since March of 7
2004. He has extensive experience in decommissioning 8
of reactor and material sites and was the technical 9
lead for the license terminations at Trojan, Maine 10 Yankee, Rancho Seco and Big Rock Point.
11 Now let me turn it over to Mr. Lew, Region 12 1's regional administrator.
13 MR. LEW: Okay, thank you, Donna. First, 14 let me welcome everyone to the NRC's annual assessment 15 meeting. I recognize that the majority of you today 16 are most interested in making statements and asking 17 questions.
18 And to be respectful of your time and your 19 interests Tony will make a presentation here that 20 should take less than ten minutes. Before I turn it 21 over we recognize that there is a great interest in 22 decommissioning.
23 As a result we have Bruce Watson who as 24 our Decommissioning Branch here, he will help answer 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 some of those questions. But we also have Ray Powell 1
who is one of my branch chiefs.
2 He is sitting in the second row here to 3
the left. And he will be responsible for the 4
oversight of Pilgrim once the plant shuts down.
5 You may have met both gentlemen earlier in 6
January when they were in Plymouth to meet with the 7
public on the post shutdown decommissioning activities 8
report as well as present to the Nuclear 9
Decommissioning Citizen's Advisory Panel.
10 And the information on those two meetings 11 are available on our website as well as YouTube.
12 Unfortunately, we will not be able to answer specific 13 decommissioning question as it relates to Pilgrim's 14 license transfer as that is still under review and 15 pre-decision.
16 And as many of you know, there has been 17 contentions for which a hearing is requested and being 18 considered by the Commission. However, we will be 19 able to answer process questions as well as past 20 operating experience from decommissioned sites.
21 So with that I'm going to turn it over to 22 Tony.
23 MR. DIMITRIADIS: Okay, thank you, Dave.
24 Good evening, everyone. I will go through six slides 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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11 to discuss Pilgrim's performance in 2018. If you can 1
go to Slide 3.
2 Based on the inputs that I'm going to 3
present here the NRC determined that Pilgrim operated 4
safely in 2018 and showed performance improvement.
5 It's also important to note that the site showed a 6
marked improvement in site safety culture.
7 In reviewing Pilgrim's performance for 8
2018 we took into consideration all of the inspections 9
and noted that Pilgrim successfully met all of the 10 commitments outlined in the Confirmatory Action Letter 11 or as we say the CAL. I'll refer to that term later 12 on.
13 Also part of our assessment we reviewed a 14 number of performance indicators to evaluate how the 15 plant performed in the past year. So in 2018 Pilgrim 16 had no performance indicators that were greater than 17 green and additionally Pilgrim had no inspection 18 findings that were greater than green.
19 Therefore, we determined that Pilgrim 20 operated safely in 2018. We came to this conclusion 21 by following our process.
22 We collected all of the inspection 23 information from the past year and in March of this 24 year we determined that Pilgrim's performance was 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 representative of Column 1 performance.
1 This determination was based on our, based 2
on inspections as well as the five team CAL 3
inspections. Next slide please.
4 To give some background on how we got 5
here, in 2015 the NRC placed Pilgrim in Column 4 of 6
the NRC's action matrix due to the identification of 7
low to moderate or white safety findings and 8
performance indicators.
9 The NRC's reactor oversight process action 10 matrix basically has five columns that identifies the 11 range of NRC and licensee actions where Column 1 is 12 normal oversight where no additional oversight is 13 required.
14 As performance of a plant declines in 15 general its assessment can go into the action matrix 16 from Column 1 to Column 5. As licensee's performance 17 degrades the NRC may transition a plant in the action 18 matrix from Columns 2 to 3 to 4 or to 5 where 19 increasing additional NRC engagement is required 20 beyond the normal inspection program.
21 In this case Pilgrim was placed in Column 22 4 back in 2015 and we began enhanced oversight which 23 means a lot of additional inspections. Column 4 of 24 the NRC's action matrix means that the plant while 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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13 safe to operate had reduced safety margins.
1 And you can get more information about 2
what Column 4 is all about in our Inspection Manual, 3
Chapter 03035. Issues that contributed to this change 4
in columns included their electrical switch yard 5
reliability concerns and ineffective corrective 6
actions specifically to address the multiple 7
complicated scrams experienced at the plant in the 8
previous years including one involving a failed safety 9
relief valve.
10 This all pointed to a poor site safety 11 culture which we define as the core values and 12 behaviors resulting from a collective commitment by 13 leaders and individuals to emphasize safety over 14 competing goals to ensure protection of people and the 15 environment.
16 Following Pilgrim's placement in Column 4 17 we performed a series of comprehensive diagnostic team 18 inspections called the supplemental inspections as 19 part of our review process for plants in this 20 category.
21 These inspections provided an in-depth, 22 independent review of what led to the decline of plant 23 performance and assured continued safe operation. In 24 2017, we completed our supplemental inspections.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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14 And that report was issued in May of 2017.
1 Later that year in August of 2017 we issued what I 2
referred to earlier as the CAL, the Confirmatory 3
Action Letter that outlined Entergy's commitments and 4
the individual actions associated with each focus area 5
which we independently evaluated through direct 6
inspections.
7 In 2017 we saw progress and improvement in 8
Pilgrim's performance. However, we had not yet 9
determined whether this progress and improvement was 10 sustainable in large part because there was a lot, 11 there was remaining, there remained significant work 12 to be done to address the underlying causes.
13 So despite observing improved performance 14 we kept Pilgrim in Column 4 in 2017 or what we call 15 the multiple repetitive degraded cornerstone column of 16 the reactor oversight process. Next slide please.
17 This slide reflects what we did in 2018.
18 In 2018 Entergy corrected all of the issues that led 19 to moving Pilgrim into Column 4. For example, Entergy 20 addressed and we closed all of the white findings the 21 last of which was closed in June of last year, 2018.
22 We examined Entergy's actions by 23 conducting five team inspections to evaluate such 24 actions that Entergy implemented over the course of 14 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 months. We call these inspections the CAL follow up 1
inspections that I referred to earlier.
2 And we completed the last of these type of 3
inspections on January 16th of this year, 2019.
4 Through these CAL inspections our NRC staff inspected 5
and verified that all 156 action items, individual 6
action items were closed, complete and effective.
7 Based on this work we determined that 8
Entergy has demonstrated sustained performance 9
improvement at Pilgrim in 2018, satisfactorily 10 completed the work necessary for us to close the 11 Confirmatory Action Letter and addressed the issues 12 that led us to placing Pilgrim in Column 4 including 13 the associated underlying causes.
14 As a result we have moved Pilgrim from 15 Column 4 to Column 1 of the action matrix. Next slide 16 please.
17 We committed a significant portion of our 18 inspection effort in assessing Pilgrim's safety 19 culture. Our inspections included focus groups, one-20 on-one interviews and direct inspections to verify 21 corrective actions.
22 Based on these inspections we determined 23 that Entergy has indeed demonstrated a marked 24 improvement in safety culture. And this is something 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 that we think is very, very important which is why I 1
focused on it a little bit.
2 Over the course of 2018 we saw a 3
significant improvement with respect to effective and 4
timely corrective actions. That's another piece of 5
that.
6 As part of the site's recovery plan 7
Entergy took significant actions to train the site's 8
management on appropriate risk recognition and 9
decision making.
10 For example, site procedures were revised 11 to ensure the risk of significant plant impacts, 12 whether it is weather, equipment failures of changes 13 on the grid have been and are appropriately considered 14 during decisions related to plant operations and 15 maintenance.
16 Lastly, Pilgrim staff increased their 17 focus on effective and consistent use of human 18 performance tools through training and increased 19 management observations of field activities which 20 helped reduce the number of human performance events.
21 Next slide, please.
22 And coming to our assessment we considered 23 the observations and insights from nearly 11,000 hours0 days <br />0 hours <br />0 weeks <br />0 months <br /> 24 of inspections at Pilgrim in the last year. All 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 findings were of very low significance or as we say 1
green.
2 Performance indicators were all green with 3
improving trends. The frequency and significance of 4
equipment problems declined.
5 As I mentioned in an earlier slide, our 6
assessment concluded that Pilgrim's actions to address 7
the underlying causes were completed satisfactorily.
8 We arrived at this conclusion based on our independent 9
verification that all 156 actions in the CAL were 10 completed.
11 Based on the sustained improvement 12 demonstrated Pilgrim was returned to normal NRC 13 oversight, or as we say Column 1. Our oversight of 14 Pilgrim will continue through decommissioning. Next 15 slide, please.
16 We will continue our inspections with a 17 strong focus on safety and security until shutdown to 18 ensure that Pilgrim sustains its safety performance.
19 We will maintain strong oversight through the 20 shutdown, decommissioning and fuel storage.
21 After Pilgrim shuts down and transitions 22 to decommissioning we expect some level of 23 decommissioning activities to commence at the site.
24 Routine decommissioning inspections will be conducted 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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18 once the fuel is removed from the reactor vessel.
1 We will continue our inspections into the 2
decommissioning phase where we will examine areas such 3
as the licensee's safety reviews, spent fuel pool 4
safety, corrective action program, decommissioning 5
performance and occupational radiation exposure just 6
to name a few.
7 These inspections are conducted by 8
inspectors who have specialized training and have been 9
qualified in these core inspection procedures and are 10 managed by our Decommissioning Branch, Ray Powell 11 which is the Branch Chief within the Division of 12 Nuclear Material Safety.
13 This concludes my presentation. I just 14 want to turn it back over to Dave Lew.
15 MR. LEW: Thank you. You can just get 16 right into Q&A's at this point. Donna.
17 MS. JANDA: Okay, thank you, Dave. So 18 just a few comments before we begin with the second 19 half of the meeting.
20 As I noted as part of the introductory 21 remarks the speaking order will be determined by 22 numbers pulled from the container that was out in 23 front of the room, the intent of which is that the 24 speaker order be random. So when your number is 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 called please queue up at the aisle microphone.
1 And if you need to have a microphone 2
brought to you please just let us know, raise your 3
hand and we will bring you the microphone. I do want 4
to emphasize there is no prohibition against donating 5
your ticket to others.
6 You are free to do so. However, both 7
individuals must be present at the time the number is 8
called and the donation must be announced at that 9
time.
10 And if an individual has already spoken 11 during the meeting as a result of someone donating 12 their ticket to that person then that individual may 13 also donate his or her ticket if called to someone 14 else. But that individual may not use that ticket to 15 speak again at that point.
16 And in an effort to give as many people as 17 possible an opportunity to speak this evening please 18 limit yourself to three minutes when speaking. There 19 is a clock positioned at the edge of the stage that 20 will count down three minutes for each speaker.
21 And at the three minute mark I will ask 22 you politely to conclude. Note that the countdown 23 clock will be paused if you ask a question in order to 24 permit the NRC an opportunity to respond.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 The clock will resume once you resume 1
speaking. So if possible, if you can just bundle your 2
questions together so then the NRC will have an 3
opportunity to answer all of your questions. Yes, 4
ma'am.
5 (Off microphone remark.)
6 MS. JANDA: Well there may be an 7
opportunity to ask additional questions after everyone 8
has had a chance to talk. So I think we'll --
9 (Off microphone comment.)
10 MS. JANDA: I'm not sure actually at this 11 point.
12 (Off microphone comment.)
13 MS. JANDA: It's fine. That's fine. So 14 the reason why we do it in this manner is everybody 15 gets that opportunity to ask questions or make 16 comments.
17 And then if time is permitting we're going 18 to give people probably another opportunity with some 19 additional questions. But we really want to make sure 20 everybody has that opportunity to ask their first set 21 of questions.
22 Right now that is the plan, correct, yes.
23 (Off microphone comment.)
24 MS. JANDA: It's not. My understanding is 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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21 it's not working at this point. I apologize for that.
1 PARTICIPANT: Did you switch the people 2
that you normally hire to do this because we had it 3
for the last several meetings and I don't understand 4
why all of a sudden we don't have it.
5 MS. JANDA: Yes, my understanding is we 6
did not switch. It's just there was some technical 7
difficulty at this point with the closed captioning.
8 Okay, so before we begin with the public 9
speakers we will start with any elected officials or 10 their representatives who would like to speak or to 11 offer prepared statements. I do have a list here of 12 some that said they may want to speak. Rory Clark 13 from Senator Markey's office.
14 MS. CLARK: Thank you. A statement on 15 behalf of Senator Edward Markey. For years Pilgrim 16 Nuclear Power Station has received the lowest operable 17 safety rating from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
18 Now right as Entergy prepares to shutter 19 the plant and sell it to new owners the NRC is saying 20 that all of the safety concerns have been addressed.
21 The surrounding community has earned its 22 skepticism of Entergy's safety record and it is up to 23 the NRC to make sure the public is fully engaged and 24 briefed on this latest step in Pilgrim's process, 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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22 particularly as Entergy continues to receive 1
exemptions from the NRC on safety requirements and as 2
Entergy and Holtec work to get approval for their 3
plans to decommission the plant.
4 After the NRC's last public meeting here 5
in January Senator Warren, Congressman Keating and I 6
wrote to the NRC asking them to address several 7
serious financial and environmental questions raised 8
by this community regarding the proposed sale of the 9
plant.
10 I am disappointed that the NRC felt it was 11 unable to offer a substantive response at this time.
12 This plant may be about to decommission but it will be 13 a part of this community for decades to come and this 14 community deserves to be heard.
15 I will continue to fight to ensure that 16 Pilgrim is held to the highest of safety standards 17 before, during and after the decommissioning process 18 and to ensure that this community's ongoing concerns 19 are received and addressed.
20 I look forward to continuing to work with 21 the, engage with the NRC, Pilgrim owners and operators 22 and community stakeholders. Thank you.
23 MS. JANDA: Thank you. Hannah Benson from 24 Senator Warren's office.
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23 MS. BENSON: Hello. I have a statement 1
here from Senator Warren. Senator Warren remains 2
extremely concerned about Entergy's management of 3
Pilgrim Nuclear Power Station as it moves towards 4
decommissioning later this year.
5 She is disappointed in the Nuclear 6
Regulatory Commission's recent actions that move 7
Pilgrim from a Column 4 station, the worst safety 8
rating a facility can have, to Column 1 without fully 9
considering the local community's safety concerns.
10 Since Pilgrim entered Column 4 in 2015 11 Senators Warren and Markey have sent six letters to 12 the NRC raising concerns about a number of ongoing 13 security issues at Pilgrim.
14 With the June 1st decommissioning of 15 Pilgrim fast approaching and the license transfer from 16 Entergy to Holtec International under review the NRC 17 must take aggressive steps to hold Entergy and Holtec 18 accountable, prioritize safety and environmental 19 concerns and remain transparent with the community 20 about any actions regarding Pilgrim Nuclear Power 21 Station. Thank you.
22 MS. JANDA: Thank you. Michael Jackman 23 from Representative Keating's office.
24 MR. JACKMAN: Thank you. Congressman 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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24 Keating apologizes for not being able to be here 1
tonight. He is in D.C. I am happy to be here to read 2
a statement on his behalf.
3 I have long urged the NRC to hold Entergy 4
to the highest inspectional standards so that the 5
plant was not allowed to remain at the lowest level of 6
allowable operational safety as it approaches the 7
cessation of power generation operations.
8 As the June 1st date is now just over 60 9
days away the decision by the NRC to move Plymouth 10 Nuclear Power Station from Column 4 to Column 1 is 11 welcome news but should not result in any reduction in 12 the NRC's careful oversight of the plant's operation.
13 I believe it is also important to 14 acknowledge the hard work of Pilgrim employees who 15 live and work in our community and who have a stake in 16 this plant's safe operation.
17 I will continue to work with them as well 18 as with my fellow state, federal and local officials 19 to hold the plant and its licensees accountable for 20 the safety of the residents of the Ninth District of 21 Massachusetts. Thank you.
22 MS. JANDA: Thank you. Matt Muratore for, 23 representing various state officials.
24 MR. MURATORE: Good evening. Thank you 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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25 all for coming out here again this year. My name is 1
Matt Muratore. I'm the State Representative for the 2
1st Plymouth District.
3 That includes the majority of the Town of 4
Plymouth. And with me is Representative Kathleen 5
LaNatra from the 12th Plymouth District which includes 6
Plymouth, Kingston and surrounding areas.
7 I'm here to read a statement and ask a 8
quick question. The statement is on behalf of the 9
South Shore Delegation, the South Coast Delegation, 10 the Cape Cod Delegation of State Representatives and 11 Senators.
12 The Pilgrim Plant delegation of your state 13 reps and senators met earlier today with 14 representatives from the NRC. At that meeting we were 15 briefed on the current status of the plant.
16 The delegation asked probing questions 17 about the change in status and about the closure 18 process including Holtec's financial stability. This 19 delegation stands united in our efforts to pass 20 legislation to help ensure the prompt and safe 21 decommissioning of the power plant.
22 And the question we have is with the trust 23 fund in place and the Town of Plymouth just finalizing 24 a deal where they have two years of a pilot program 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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26 can the trust fund money be used, decommissioning fund 1
money be used to pay a pilot program, pay in lieu of 2
taxes?
3 PARTICIPANT: That's a good question.
4 Yes, taxes for property taxes are an indirect expense 5
that can be used, decommissioning trust fund can be 6
used for.
7 I'm not familiar with the pilot project.
8 So I really can't comment on that.
9 MR. MURATORE: What it is, is payment in 10 lieu of taxes so I think you've answered the question.
11 Thank you.
12 MS. JANDA: Thank you. At this point are 13 there any other elected officials or their 14 representatives who would like to speak or offer a 15 prepared statement?
16 MR. DORFLER: Assistant Attorney General 17 Joseph Dorfler on behalf of the Massachusetts Attorney 18 General's office. We don't have a statement at this 19 time but wanted to note our appearance. Thank you.
20 MS. JANDA: Thank you. So now we're going 21 to, we will start with our first speaker. We're going 22 to read the numbers across in the rows. And the first 23 person will be Number 15.
24 MS. DUBOIS: Thank you. I was 14, so 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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27 Pine DuBois from the Town of Kingston and also the 1
NDCAP.
2 And my question really has to do not with 3
your recent decision to elevate Entergy's operations 4
to Column 1, that's fine. My question has to do with 5
your oversight during the decommissioning process, 6
what you said would be robust.
7 But I would like you to explain the 8
guidance that those inspectors will follow relative to 9
our changing environmental conditions.
10 When I was here in January I think I, we 11 had a little exchange about the way sea level is 12 rising and the impact that can have on the facility 13 not because of anybody's doing other than, you know, 14 our collective world view of things.
15 But sea level is rising. Storms are 16 increasing. Rain is falling harder. The ground water 17 will rise. The sea will rise.
18 The so the question has to do really with 19 where is the NRC at, at not only helping the industry 20 but in your guidance for having rapid decommissioning 21 and clean up of these sites so that they can be 22 successful?
23 If you are delayed, if you do not adopt 24 construction measures that will enable the kinds of 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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28 work that you have to do, if you will instead and this 1
is the point I was trying to make in January, if you 2
will instead let everything wash everything out to sea 3
then in our minds and in our belief living here and 4
relying on that sea that's not an effective and robust 5
clean up.
6 So where is the NRC guidance there? You 7
know, we just had, you know, the deluge in Nebraska, 8
you know, flooding some nuclear facilities. You know, 9
it happened in New Orleans.
10 Where is the guidance? It is not in the 11 SEIS and it is not in the GEIS. You have to implement 12 some.
13 So given the inspectors are there are they 14 going to run and hide or are they going to help adopt 15 some construction mechanisms that is going to make 16 sure that this decommissioning and the clean up is 17 successful?
18 MR. LEW: So there was a number of 19 questions there. I understand your questions in terms 20 of how we deal with the change in flood heights. We 21 have, you know, we have required licensees to 22 reevaluate the flood heights relative to the operating 23 plant.
24 We have confirmed through our inspector 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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29 that they are appropriately compensating for the flood 1
heights there. With respect to dry storage, you know, 2
we understand that pad is being moved up an additional 3
50 feet higher.
4 Generally when we look at our oversight we 5
do look at impacts on environmental, impacts on the 6
particular facility and we will be inspecting 7
accordingly. It's not specifically written in a 8
specific SER.
9 But it's a part of what we review relative 10 to changes in the environment.
11 MS. DUBOIS: To clarify, I guess, I think 12 that generally speaking your guidance, as in a lot of 13 construction guidance, is very exact. And it is very 14 determinative of what tools and methods should be used 15 in any sort of construction effort.
16 I do not know where that exists here. I 17 suspect that it does not exist. And what I am asking 18 and I'm not necessarily asking, Mr. Lew, for you to 19 tell me right now today, I am asking that you direct 20 your energies to address this major concern that is 21 going to affect Pilgrim as well as the other 22 facilities in the country.
23 MS. JANDA: Thank you. The next speaker 24 will be Number 7.
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30 MS. LAMPERT: Yes, Mary Lampert speaking 1
for Pilgrim Watch. I'll do it as quickly as I can.
2 The question really is how did Pilgrim, 3
even though you tried to explain, go from 4 directly 4
to 1 skipping any intermediate steps which I think 5
would have been a little bit more believable?
6 I think the decision is more of a 7
political decision not based on its performance. It 8
seems clear to me that once again NRC commissioners, 9
not the staff are once again acquiescing to the 10 nuclear industry's push for fewer inspections at 11 plants letting the industry self-assess its 12 performance and cut back on what it tells the public 13 about plant's problems.
14 The NRC Commissioners and industry 15 representatives, NEI, say changes in oversight are 16 warranted to reflect the industry's overall improved 17 safety records.
18 And how would NRC show improved industry 19 records to justify essentially a hands off policy 20 giving out green findings across the board in the 21 ropes that would show a justification for this policy?
22 And of course we know however, that 23 deregulation hands off from the NRC in this case would 24 compromise safety. And with an industry that can have 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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31 huge consequences that's a very bad idea.
1 We have seen it in this administration 2
whether it's FAA, whether it's EPA, across the board 3
to deregulate.
4 Another high priority of NEI's Christmas 5
list to the Commissioners was to eliminate press 6
releases about low level, so to speak, safety issues 7
at plants meaning the kind of problems that could 8
trigger more inspections and oversight at a plant but 9
not constitute an emergency.
10 That's to save money for the industry.
11 The industry group also asked that NRC reduce the 12 burden of radiation protection and emergency 13 preparedness inspections.
14 All of this was laid out by the Associated 15 Press in a March 15, 2019, report and they have a 16 hyperlink in that report to the September 19, 2018, 17 NEI letter to NRC regarding the rope and allowing 18 essentially self-assessment.
19 And so I think you all have done a good 20 job. Brian Sullivan is far, far better as a VP than 21 we've seen here in a very long time. But it's the 22 Commissioners that I'm very concerned about.
23 MR. LEW: Thank you, Mary. Just for 24 clarification, the decision to move Pilgrim from 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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32 Column 4 to Column 1 was not a Commission decision.
1 It was a decision made by the Commission 2
staff. And just to be clear, you know, all of the 3
plants that have been in Column 4, you know, the way 4
we approach things is we call it the way we see it 5
whether it was placing Pilgrim in Column 4 in 2015 or 6
taking them out at this point.
7 And most plants have actually transitioned 8
to Column 1, in fact. And those that did not the 9
reason that they did not typically is because they 10 still have an existing greater than green input, an 11 existing white or existing yellow.
12 In this case Pilgrim does not have an 13 existing input and in fact since we have put them in 14 Column 4 there was no greater than green or very low 15 safety significance, no greater than green performance 16 indicator or finding.
17 So it was appropriate for us to transition 18 from Column 4 to Column 1. Another thing I just want 19 to add. I know I'm talking to much.
20 The other thing I want to add is one of 21 the things that we, approach that we do is we want to 22 ensure that they address the underlying conditions of 23 what drove the performance decline back in 2015.
24 And so you saw that. Last year we saw 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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33 improvement, progress and improvement but we weren't 1
ready to say it was sustainable. This year we 2
continue to see progress and improvement.
3 They have addressed the underlying issues.
4 And so there's been a history through the CALs that we 5
have issued as well as other documents.
6 And our goal is really to ensure that 7
these plants do not jump in and out of Column 4. We 8
want them to address the underlying issues and for us 9
to have a level of confidence before we take them out 10 of Column 4. We call it the way we see it.
11 MR. LAMPERT: Jim Lampert, Duxbury.
12 MS. JANDA: Excuse me, Mr. Lampert, you're 13 Number 8 just to be sure?
14 MR. LAMPERT: I am.
15 MS. JANDA: Okay, thank you.
16 MR. LAMPERT: That's what it says in red.
17 I want to pick up where my wife left off a couple of 18 things.
19 First off, the reasons the industry gives 20 for wanting to back off that things are too burdensome 21 and it gives them problems with the SEC I trust the 22 NRC would agree are no reason at all to back off 23 making the types of inspections you ought to be 24 making.
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34 However, there are examples of backing 1
off. And probably one of the clearest is the 2
decommissioning rule if you want to look at 3
burdensome.
4 The basic justification for what looks 5
like it's probably going to become the final 6
decommissioning rule is this is costing Entergy and 7
the NRC just too much time and we're going to save 8
time for the public who before has spent time getting 9
into things, never had any success but now they won't 10 have to waste their time and money and effort.
11 Looking forward I'm concerned about 12 inspections. Pilgrim moved from 4 to 1. They did so 13 because they had a good vice president, and I am glad 14 for a change, and because you had a lot of 15 inspections.
16 What's going on as we get to 17 decommissioning? Resident inspectors are going to 18 leave. There aren't going to be any resident 19 inspectors anymore.
20 We all know what happens when you put too 21 much out to "self-regulation". And if you think of it 22 look at Max 8's and Boeing.
23 There are going to be a lot of things 24 happening over the next 45 years that are going to be 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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35 very important to people who live around here and I'm 1
not going to be here for the next 45 years but heaven 2
knows a lot of our, now I'm taking to groups children 3
and grandchildren will be.
4 So let me ask just three or four 5
questions. Will the NRC be there when fuel is being 6
moved from the reactor into the spent fuel pool?
7 Will you be there when it goes from the 8
spent fuel pool into dry casks and eventually when 9
it's moved off site? Will you be there at the end 10 when somebody goes around and tests to see whether the 11 place is really clean?
12 I have no idea who at Holtec or at their 13 partner, Lavalin has any near the competence or 14 experience that Entergy finally stepped up to at the 15 tail end here.
16 Holtec has never decommissioned anything 17 in its life. Lavalin has never decommissioned 18 anything in the United States. And let's face it, it 19 had problems doing what it thought it knew how to do 20 out at Santa Nofre (phonetic).
21 And its overall reputation in the world 22 for doing the job and doing it honestly is not 23 particularly great. So my final question and I guess 24 it's to Tony is, you talked about increased oversight.
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36 I think what we need to know and we need 1
to know pretty close to right now is specifically what 2
oversight, what inspections? What are you going to do 3
to keep track of what is going on during 4
decommissioning when it's run by people who have never 5
done it before?
6 MR. LEW: Thanks, Jim. So I'm going to 7
ask our Decommissioning Branch Chief, Ray Powell to 8
answer the questions associated with decommissioning.
9 As he's getting up I just want to clarify 10 that relative to the question of will the NRC be there 11 when they move the fuel from the reactor vessel to the 12 spent fuel pool, that will still be under Tony's 13 responsibility.
14 He will still have residence on site to 15 observe the movement of the fuel from the reactor 16 vessel to the spent fuel pool. At that point once we 17 get a, I would expect the entity to provide us a 18 letter certifying that they have removed all of the 19 fuel from the reactor vessel.
20 At that point then it goes over to Ray 21 Powell who has the responsibility for the inspections.
22 MR. LAMPERT: After that the resident 23 inspectors are gone, correct?
24 MR. POWELL: Well let's talk about that.
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37 MR. LAMPERT: And also a question just a 1
little layer we talked about the first transfers.
2 There are at least three more of spent fuel by the 3
time you get stuff out of here long after I'm dead.
4 MR. POWELL: Okay. Let me start at the 5
beginning. As Dave mentioned, yes, we will be 6
watching them unload the vessel into the pool. I've 7
coordinated with Tony already.
8 We'll have one of my inspectors who are 9
ASFC (phonetic) qualified even though it's not an ASFC 10 loading campaign they are very familiar with fuel 11 movements. They will supplement the resident 12 inspector.
13 So, yes, we will be there. With respect 14 to when it comes time for what I call an extended 15 offload loading campaign I can't tell you that we're 16 going to watch every cask.
17 We will pick and choose and we will be on 18 site monitoring the activities. And I know you had a 19 third question and it's escaping me.
20 MR. LAMPERT: The next move we've got it 21 into the casks. Eventually we have to get it off site 22 probably in new casks or new packaging. What's your 23 involvement in oversight of that?
24 MR. POWELL: You know, that's in the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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38 future and a policy question. I don't know if you 1
have any more information on that then I would on 2
that, Bruce.
3 MR. WATSON: Yes. This is Bruce Watson.
4 In the future we would be there to monitor and inspect 5
the transfer of that fuel just like we do low level 6
waste today.
7 So those programs would have to be 8
developed along with when the DOE or if it turns out 9
to be a private consortium at this point to an interim 10 storage those types of containers and to make sure 11 they're properly packaged and shipped.
12 Right now the dry storage containers are 13 designed to be transported. And so we would expect 14 that.
15 I wanted to add one more thing. Part of 16 your question was who is going to verify that the site 17 was cleaned up. That will be the NRC.
18 If you look at what we're doing right now 19 at the Zion Plant, Lacrosse Plant and Humboldt Bay 20 which is what we've been doing since Day 1 with large 21 decommissioning projects, is we employ an independent 22 contractor.
23 Right now it's Oak Ridge Associated 24 Universities, also known as ORISE, Oak Ridge Institute 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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39 of Science and Education. They do perform independent 1
surveys for us.
2 They sample the soil and everything else, 3
survey the areas to verify that the licensee has met 4
the requirements that's going to be in their license 5
termination plan. They also operate a world class 6
laboratory for us and for the Department of Energy.
7 And so we have, we use that as the 8
comparison or benchmark for all radiological 9
measurements. So I think our program in that area is 10 quite extensive.
11 There's an inspection procedure on it.
12 It's publicly available on our website too. So I 13 think between our NRC inspectors and our supervision 14 of our contractor we have a very good program that 15 will verify that the sites are cleaned up.
16 As you know, we've done ten of these sites 17 and we're expecting to terminate both Zion 1 and 2, 18 Lacrosse and Humboldt Bay probably by, I'm going to 19 say mid 2020, okay. So we'll have 14 in the bank.
20 So, thank you.
21 MR. POWELL: And I think the last part of 22 your question was there an inspection presence, what 23 I can tell you is it will be commensurate with the 24 level of activity at the site.
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40 And to give a more concrete example than 1
just those words, if you look at what BY (phonetic) is 2
doing they have now entered active decommissioning.
3 I basically have an inspector on site for all key 4
activities.
5 And right now it's averaging about one 6
week a month. If it needs to be more it will be. If 7
it needs to be less we'll adjust.
8 The contrary would be someone like Crystal 9
River 3. They are in safe store. They haven't done 10 anything in quite some time other than some rad waste 11 shipments.
12 So we go down there about twice a year 13 because that's commensurate with the level of activity 14 at the site. And all this is spelled out in 15 Inspection Manual, Chapter 2561.
16 Understand, but it will give you 17 references in that to the procedure Bruce referenced 18 and the information though, understand, but it is 19 readily available.
20 MS. JANDA: Okay. The next speaker is 21 Number 3.
22 MS. TURCO: Hi. Diane Turco with Cape 23 Downwinders. It's my understanding that multiple 24 repetitive degraded is kind of what Column 4 is all 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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41 about.
1 So I don't know what planet you're on 2
because what I'm reading is something very different 3
and it's from your reports, okay. Pilgrim's repeated 4
shutdowns are costly.
5 This is from 2018. They lost $63 million 6
in 57 days. That equals a poor safety culture.
7 They're not going to put money into fixes.
8 They aren't and it's being proven by these 9
shutdowns because of degraded equipment. We also see 10 ongoing problems with valves, parts being installed 11 backwards.
12 Valve closure causes an automatic shutdown 13 at Pilgrim. Pilgrim powers down a day after favorable 14 report. A fleet-wide order to prevent willful 15 misconduct issued by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 16 to Entergy because of willful misconduct.
17 And that happened at Pilgrim when a worker 18 did not do his rounds and falsified the records.
19 That's not the first time. It's happened may times.
20 So now the whole fleet has an order to put 21 a plan together to prevent willful misconduct. And 22 then hundreds of Pilgrim tasks were downgraded. They 23 went from, they were reduced because of a backlog of 24 work from adverse to non-adverse.
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42 That was in 2018. You can't tell me 1
Pilgrim is now in Column 1. These are from your 2
reports.
3 Specifically, 2018 Entergy personnel 4
failed to implement work order requirements on 5
feedwater regulating valve. That caused the scram.
6 That's happened many times, okay.
7 Entergy did not take effective corrective 8
actions to address issues in a timely manner 9
commensurate with their safety significance. Entergy 10 should still be in Column 4.
11 And why you moved them up to Column 1, I 12 mean maybe, you know, maybe you're miracle workers or 13 something. But the reality is it should have stayed 14 in 4.
15 It's still a threat to our communities.
16 Last thing, January 4th was a scram, loss of off site 17 power. We know that happens during many storms and 18 Pilgrim scrammed.
19 We wanted Pilgrim to be shut down. Their 20 procedures are to shut down early but they don't 21 follow procedures and you don't enforce them because 22 they're not regulations.
23 And you actually said when you inspected 24 that you said, let's see, Entergy had a documented 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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43 difficulty following, the inspectors also determined, 1
"it was not reasonable to foresee or correct the cause 2
during a storm".
3 So if operators cannot foresee the loss of 4
off site power during a predicated and reported severe 5
storm they shouldn't be operating a nuclear reactor.
6 And you're not doing your job.
7 So we're calling on the NRC to be 8
abolished just like the Atomic Energy Commission. And 9
that it be replaced with an authority that is 10 transferred to federal and state intergovernmental 11 agency independent of the nuclear industry including 12 representation by state and local stakeholders who 13 will have full authority for public health and safety 14 for their communities.
15 MR. LEW: Diane, I wasn't sure whether 16 those were statements or questions. But I will 17 address a few things, if I may.
18 First is those are issues that we 19 identified and were in the NRC report. And so just to 20 give you a little bit perspective in terms of how we 21 come to some of the conclusions and so forth, you 22 talked about the January trip, January 2018.
23 So it was about 14 months ago. And our 24 conclusion was that was an issue that was caused by 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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44 something miles from the plant, not owned by Entergy.
1 When we look at that particular issue and 2
we look at the switch yard I think over the years in 3
response to what we have provided oversight is, and 4
one of the bigger contributors into the, Entergy 5
being, Pilgrim being placed in Column 4 was the 6
vulnerability of the switch yard.
7 In that case it was not caused by the 8
switch yard. That was caused by something outside the 9
switch yard.
10 And the modifications that they 11 implemented, the procedures, the processes, the human 12 performance in fact improved the robustness of the 13 Pilgrim switch yard. In fact, there were no scrams 14 that were caused by the Pilgrim switch yard in the 15 last three winter seasons.
16 And they went beyond that. And just to 17 give you a sense of why we think the safety culture 18 improved and the conservative decision making. They 19 engaged Eversource, the company that owned the grid 20 and the equipment.
21 They worked with them in terms of ensuring 22 that the lightning lines that caused the trip was 23 addressed more holistically in terms of doing 24 inspections and so forth. So that's just a piece of 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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45 what that reflects.
1 And also I will offer that we don't look 2
at how much money they lose or not. In some cases if 3
they're shutting down they are shutting down to fix 4
things.
5 And that, and from a safety point of view 6
that is in my mind not a bad thing.
7 MS. TURCO: The off site line was based on 8
Entergy's procedures to shut down if there's a 9
possibility of loss of off site power, not the switch 10 yard but loss of off site power.
11 And that storm was advertised all over the 12 news, the National Weather Service loss of power to be 13 predicted in this area and they didn't shut down.
14 MR. LEW: Yes, so, you know --
15 MS. TURCO: So they didn't follow the 16 procedures. But the issue is you can't enforce them 17 following their procedures. If it was a --
18 MR. LEW: No, I would disagree. They did 19 follow their procedures. And we can get into --
20 MS. TURCO: Okay, no. I'll show you the 21 procedures, yes.
22 MR. LEW: -- more of a discussion on this.
23 MS. JANDA: Okay, thank you. The next 24 speaker will be Number 4.
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46 MS. DICKINSON: Good evening. My name is 1
Elaine Dickinson and I am also with Cape Downwinders.
2 And with the closing of Pilgrim the most 3
pressing issue today is how to deal with the 4
radioactive waste in a manner that keeps with the 5
NRC's mandate of protecting people and the 6
environment.
7 Selling Pilgrim to Holtec produces so many 8
unanswered questions. The casks, all casks are not 9
created equal. Thin, cheap casks are not as robust as 10 the thicker casks used in Europe.
11 Moving the waste to an area across the 12 country opens more dangerous scenarios with 13 potentially devastating accidents. Putting the waste 14 in indigenous communities that do not want it is 15 racist.
16 And remember just because Holtec says they 17 will accomplish the decommissioning in a very short 18 time wouldn't it be foolish to think that haste is 19 best when dealing with this potentially lethal 20 material.
21 In '75, 1975 the Atomic Energy Commission 22 was abolished by an Act of Congress. A new agency was 23 created, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, your 24 agency with the mandate of protecting public health 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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47 and safety.
1 As your website banner says, protecting 2
people and the environment. The citizens demand you 3
uphold your mandate or be abolished as your 4
predecessor was and replaced with an agency that will.
5 By transferring Pilgrim's license to 6
Holtec, a company that has never decommissioned a 7
reactor before and which is joining with SNC-Lavalin, 8
a Canadian company under investigation for corruption 9
and bribery, seriously I ask you how can you uphold 10 your mandate by transferring the license to such a 11 company?
12 If there was no suitable company to do 13 this dangerous work why not allow Entergy to do the 14 decommissioning and take care of the waste that they 15 have produced? The community is watching.
16 MR. LEW: So I take that as a statement?
17 MS. DICKINSON: That's a question. Is 18 that a
consideration?
We've been to these 19 decommissioning Commission meetings and it sounds like 20 it's a done deal that Holtec is going to get it.
21 MR. LEW: Well again, I guess, you know, 22 I think as I stated in the beginning we are not, it 23 was under review. It's pre-decisional. Also there 24 was contentions associated with that issue.
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48 So we won't be answering those questions 1
that are directly related to the license transfer.
2 MS. DICKINSON: Well I'm just giving you 3
things to think about then. Thank you.
4 MS. JANDA: Thank you. Next speaker will 5
be Number 19.
6 MR. GARRITY: Good evening. My name is 7
John Garrity and I was the recovery manager at Pilgrim 8
as we came through this series of inspections.
9 And if you remember last time we were here 10 I got asked the question why was it going to take so 11 long for Pilgrim to return to Column 1. And I 12 explained that it was going to be a systematic very 13 detailed process of inspections that we would follow.
14 That we were scheduled to come back to 15 Column 1 right about this time frame. I also 16 explained that we as Pilgrim Station were taking 17 ownership of our problems which meant we had to work 18 very diligently on our culture which is our core 19 values.
20 One of our core values which is just 21 unmistakable is safety. So the NRC made sure that not 22 only did we solve our technical issues which were 23 relatively easy to show compared to our cultural 24 issues, and then they made sure that we took the time 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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49 to understand and correct the underlying root causes 1
of these issues.
2 That took a lot of time. And I personally 3
was involved with all five inspections. And I can 4
tell you those inspections were not performed by 5
politicians.
6 They were performed by engineers. And if 7
you deal with engineers they deal with facts. So we 8
dealt with the facts. We dealt with the causes.
9 And then at the very last inspection was 10 our safety culture inspection. And that one took the 11 longest because it's the hardest.
12 It's very hard to prove to people that you 13 care about safety, that you understand you own the 14 issues and that you, us were responsible for creating 15 them, correcting them and making sure they didn't come 16 back.
17 So I feel proud of the people that worked 18 on that project. I'm very confident that we corrected 19 the issues.
20 But I'm more confident that we learned how 21 we got there so that we will not go there again. So 22 thank you very much.
23 MS. JANDA: Thank you. The next speaker 24 will be Number 17.
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50 MS. CORRIGAN: Hi, Joanne Corrigan 1
(phonetic). I live here in Plymouth. I can actually 2
ride my bike down to the power plant. I have a couple 3
concerns.
4 And apparently there are those of us who 5
are skeptical that Pilgrim went magically from Column 6
4 to Column 1. And I have a problem with trying to 7
believe that since their corrective action plans that 8
they've had over the years they've failed this, this 9
didn't work, they didn't know how to fix it.
10 And they didn't give them six months, a 11 year, whatever to fix it. You guys gave them get to 12 it when you feel like it which is why a lot of stuff 13 never got done.
14 I was in the, I was an (inaudible) tech 15 for 45 years. We had hospital inspections. If JCAHO 16 finds out something was wrong, that we were doing 17 something in any part of the hospital we had a 18 corrective action plan with a set time frame which 19 these guys never got which is why a lot of stuff 20 didn't get done.
21 They have a laundry list of failures over 22 there starting with the operators failing your own 23 proficiency test, the equipment malfunctions numerous, 24 the repairs not done or done incorrectly and the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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51 falsification of their medical physicals. That was a 1
good one.
2 So the violation of their inspections and 3
so many failures over so many years only resulted in 4
a pass or a slap on the wrist by the NRC. Do you 5
really expect us to believe that Pilgrim went from 4 6
to 1 in a short time as if by magic?
7 Which leads me to believe that apparently 8
Entergy hired Dumbledore and the Wizard of Oz and 9
that's how it got done. But there's one problem over, 10 after the other over there not to mention the nitwit 11 decision to put the casks next to the ocean.
12 What on earth were they thinking? They 13 didn't have to have big studies done. Just come down 14 in any Nor'easter stand at the step end of Priscilla 15 Beach. That wave comes up those 12 steps into the 16 street across the parking lot into the street.
17 And they put those casks so close to the 18 ocean with an area where we have Nor'easters, 19 hurricanes, full moon high tides constantly and not to 20 mention the sea level is rising.
21 So and then now they're going to put them 22 along Rocky Hill Road so the terrorists can see the 23 targets they need to hit with their RPGs.
24 So the past history of Pilgrim is 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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52 indicative of the lack of interest and concern to keep 1
us safe. Thank you.
2 MR. LEW: And thank you. I understand 3
your skepticism. I would maybe offer this for you to 4
consider and something that we look at.
5 It's beyond just having all the actions 6
that were done under the Confirmatory Action Letter as 7
well as the effectiveness review. But when I take a 8
step back and I take a look in the last two years 9
there were two scrams at Pilgrim.
10 One was outside their control, equipment 11 that was miles from the plant and not owned by the 12 licensee. But those two scrams, and one was an 13 equipment failure.
14 But that's not abnormal in terms of what 15 you see in other plants consistent with Column 1. But 16 the more salient piece of it is when the plants did 17 scram and you look at the response the equipment 18 worked the way it should have.
19 Processes and procedures were followed.
20 Performance of the operators were good. And that's an 21 important data point, you know, in terms of how the 22 plant responds to the scram.
23 And I just share that with you to sort of 24 contrast that to 2015 when they had the scram and they 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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53 had a safety-related valve that did not work as it 1
should have. That there were risks, important 2
equipment that did not respond the way they did.
3 The command and control was not as strong 4
as it should be. So that's certainly an indication in 5
terms of how they addressed those issues and looking 6
at how the plant responded.
7 So, you know, certainly I just share that 8
as a data point for you to consider.
9 MS. CORRIGAN: Well Pilgrim did not do 10 what it had to do when it was generating and making 11 money and making electricity. So I can't imagine when 12 it goes offline how all of a sudden it's going to have 13 this big concern to keep us safe.
14 In March, we knew about those storms. It 15 was, March was one storm after the other last year.
16 The third of March we had a huge nor'easter storm.
17 I went all the way to 495, nobody had 18 power. I came down here to get to 495 and I couldn't 19 even get down Rocky Hill Road there were so many trees 20 down.
21 I got to the light here. All the power 22 was out. The only reason I got out of here was 23 through that little side road you have going to 3A and 24 that's only because I have a little standard and I 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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54 went off road into the mud and snow to get out of 1
there.
2 And Entergy claimed they didn't lose off 3
site power. They didn't lose any power at all. Well 4
that's funny. They must have their own power source 5
because none of the street lights were working and 6
there was no power from here to 495.
7 They don't take into consideration where 8
this plant is, the kind of weather we get here. So I 9
don't know how if no one is inspecting them the whole 10 time that they have to wait, what four years for the 11 thing to cool down to take the rest of the rods out, 12 right?
13 MR. LEW: Right. And I just want to be 14 respectful of other's time. I don't want the 15 conversation to go a little long, you know, being 16 respectful.
17 And I'm looking at Donna to tell me to 18 yank me off the mic. But just to share with you last 19 year, 2018 was a significant winter season. It was 20 tough.
21 In each of those cases we had inspectors 22 on site ensuring that the licensee followed their 23 procedures, appropriately addressed those issues.
24 Yes, there was the January trip.
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55 There was also a delay in the start up 1
that was for another trip. But we were there. And I 2
just want to assure you that we were there and we 3
observed and inspected throughout.
4 MS. JANDA: Okay, thank you. Next speaker 5
is Number 1.
6 MR.
GOLLINGHAM:
John Gollingham 7
(phonetic). I'm really glad I got Number 1. I've 8
read some NRC testing that acknowledges the potential 9
for chloride stress corrosion cracking in the type of 10 steel used in Holtec's dry cask storage system.
11 And because the casks are so close to the 12 ocean do you include testing, did you include testing 13 in your safety assessment of the casks?
14 MR. WATSON: Let me just speak to the fact 15 that chloride stress corrosion is a known entity for 16 attacking stainless steels.
17 The stainless steels are, the design of 18 the casks and the thickness of the walls all take that 19 into consideration along with long term monitoring of 20 the containers.
21 MR. GOLLINGHAM: So how do you, what 22 monitoring is used?
23 MR. WATSON: Right now the industry and 24 the NRC are developing testing requirements and 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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56 surveillance requirements for looking at the casks.
1 Not long ago one cask was removed from 2
Maine Yankee and tested and it had been there for, I 3
think a dozen years. And so no signs of any corrosion 4
or other activity.
5 MR. GOLLINGHAM: And what emergency plan 6
is intact in case a cracked cask, right? I can't 7
even, the plan of an event of a cracked cask, is there 8
an emergency plan in place? What happens then?
9 MR. WATSON: Yes, the casks are inspected 10 or at least the facility is inspected at least 11 annually. There are plans in place for and the fact 12 that if they were to detect a leak that actions could 13 be taken.
14 MR. GOLLINGHAM: What actions?
15 MR. WATSON: One would be to make sure 16 that the monitoring of the cask continues and see what 17 kind of provisions could be made to have the cask 18 removed and encapsulated or placed in another cask to 19 ensure its integrity.
20 MR. GOLLINGHAM: It doesn't sound like 21 anything is in place. And can a cracked cask be 22 moved?
23 MR. WATSON: Well I guess you have to 24 define crack. We expect a crack would be very minor.
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57 However, you know, to have a crack is extremely 1
unlikely.
2 There would have to be some kind of cause 3
for that. That's why we would inspect them and 4
periodically to make sure that there is no corrosion 5
or attacks on the particular metal for the long term 6
storage of these casks.
7 MR. GOLLINGHAM: From my obsessive 8
research the chloride stress cracking is like spider 9
cracks. It's not like a nice little crack that you 10 can weld or anything like that.
11 Holtec's president said if you could find 12 a crack it couldn't be fixed. So that's why I'm 13 curious, I'm not hearing, you know, you have a plan in 14 place because you can't fix the crack. It's not a 15 fixable crack.
16 MR. WATSON: And this is why I mentioned 17 taking and putting the cask in another cask to ensure 18 the integrity of the material.
19 MR. GOLLINGHAM: Are those casks going to 20 be on site? Are you going to have Holtec have those 21 extra casks on site?
22 MR. WATSON: There's no requirement for 23 that right now.
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58 be important.
1 MR. WATSON: Well let me finish. Holtec 2
is not the only manufacturer. New home facilities 3
actually have a transfer cask which could be used to 4
load an old cask into.
5 I was just out at Rancho Seco. They still 6
have the old transfer cask there which is available 7
for how they transferred it from the plant to the dry 8
fuel storage.
9 MR. GOLLINGHAM: So there was a container 10 at the Koeberg Plant in South Africa which was thicker 11 steel than what is used in Holtec steel. And that had 12 a through the wall crack within 17 years.
13 Can you talk to that? Do you know any 14 more information on that?
15 MR. WATSON: I really don't know any 16 information about that.
17 MR. GOLLINGHAM: It's in one of your 18 documents.
19 MR. WATSON: Yes, I do decommissioning.
20 I don't do spent fuel management. I'm trying to at 21 least answer some of your questions.
22 That one I don't know the particular 23 technical details on. But I would point out that 24 there's been comments made that thicker casks are 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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59 safer.
1 I don't know that's necessarily true. If 2
you say this cask was thicker, so --
3 MR. GOLLINGHAM: Well that was my next 4
question. Why are thick wall casks used in other 5
countries and not in America? Why aren't we doing 6
that?
7 MR. WATSON: The primary reason that we 8
have thinner walled casks than those made in Europe is 9
our casks are designed to be transferred. So they are 10 intended to be able to place in a transfer cask so 11 they could be shipped to a permanent repository.
12 MR. GOLLINGHAM: Well that's a concern of 13 mine as well because if they sit by the ocean with the 14 chlorine and now they're next to the road with more 15 chlorine coming up with road salt if that steel 16 becomes more vulnerable and you're not catching that 17 cask and then you're shipping it across the country 18 that's, right, it's not that funny. I mean I'm 19 concerned about that.
20 MR. WATSON: Well fundamentally to do any 21 type of radioactive material shipment you're going to 22 ensure the integrity of the container before you put 23 it in a transportation mechanism to be moved. That's 24 part of our inspection procedures.
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60 MR. GOLLINGHAM: Promise?
1 MR. WATSON: It's part of our inspection 2
procedures even for low level waste today.
3 MR. GOLLINGHAM: All right. My last 4
question is how quickly would the public be informed 5
if a cask cracked?
6 Are we going to be, are you going to keep 7
that to yourselves or will the public be informed that 8
a crack, that you have had an event?
9 MR. WATSON: There are emergency plan 10 procedures in place for dry fuel storage facilities.
11 I would assume those procedures would be followed.
12 Again, it's not my area. But I know they 13 have plans in place for notification of not only the 14 public but the NRC of safety issues.
15 MR. GOLLINGHAM: All right, thank you.
16 MS. JANDA: Thank you. Next speaker, 17 Number 6.
18 MS. CARPENTER: I'm Susan Carpenter with 19 the Cape Downwinders. And I'm concerned about the 20 finances of all of this, about the decommissioning.
21 And one of the things that concerns me is 22 several other companies have requested waivers to use 23 decommissioning funds for other purposes. And I'm 24 wondering has the NRC ever refused to grant a waiver 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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61 to the industry?
1 PARTICIPANT: I guess to rephrase your 2
question is have we ever denied an exemption. And 3
specifically your question is for the separation or, 4
of spent fuel management funds and decommissioning 5
funds.
6 I think there was one. But I can't 7
remember exactly. It may have been either withdrawn 8
by the licensee. There was something that had to do 9
with Vermont Yankee not too long ago.
10 But most exemptions are, the fact that 11 most utilities or licensees at the time the original 12 rules required one fund. And the rules were changed, 13 I think, back a little while ago that you had to have 14 separate funds.
15 But since they have a single fund under 16 one trustee by an independent bank where the money is 17 kept there is actually an accounting by the trustee 18 that separates the two. So that's the equivalent 19 almost of having separate trust funds.
20 So we've granted that exemption where they 21 can show to us that we have two accounting and which 22 money goes where and what it's for.
23 MS. CARPENTER: So it's not a common 24 occurrence then? I mean it's been used for taxes Mary 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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62 just said and a waiver was granted.
1 PARTICIPANT: I can tell you that the 2
payment of taxes from the decommissioning fund are 3
only allowed once the plant is in decommissioning.
4 When they're operating they can't use those funds for 5
any other purpose.
6 So they stay with the trustee in the bank.
7 They are not allowed to release the money for anything 8
but decommissioning funded activities.
9 MS. CARPENTER: And that's coming up quite 10 quickly. Thank you.
11 MS. JANDA: Thank you. The next speaker 12 is Number 16. My apologies for missing that. Okay, 13 we're going to move on to Number 2 please.
14 (Off microphone comment.)
15 MS. JANDA: Okay, thank you. Number 11.
16 MR. ROTHSTEIN: Richard Rothstein, Town of 17 Plymouth and Member of the Massachusetts NDCAP. Let 18 me first state that I'm not opposed to nuclear 19 decommissioning trust funds being used for on site 20 spent nuclear fuel management as may be necessary or 21 appropriate.
22 That
- said, are there any current 23 applicable NRC regulations or policies for existing 24 nuclear power plants which are still operating or have 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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63 been permanently shut down and undergoing 1
decommissioning per their submitted PSDARs that 2
mandate any monies recovered via lawsuits against the 3
U.S. Department of Energy for on site spent nuclear 4
fuel management be used by the licensee to fully 5
reimburse the decommissioning trust fund if such 6
monies were or will be used via exemptions granted by 7
the NRC for such said purposes?
8 The basis for my question is NRC's October 9
17, 2018, approval of Northstar's financial exemption 10 request made for Vermont Yankee.
11 In that approval the NRC determined that 12 Northstar's revised PSDAR demonstrated reasonable 13 assurance existed that funds within the nuclear 14 decommissioning trust when combined with other funds 15 including a
"anticipated future United States 16 Department of Energy reimbursements" would be in 17 excess of the amount needed to cover the estimated 18 costs of radiological decommissioning and irradiated 19 fuel management.
20 MR. WATSON: In the Vermont case part of 21 their justification for maintaining adequate funding 22 to do the decommissioning was that they were going to 23 take credit for any monies that come from DOE go back 24 into the trust fund to either complete the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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64 decommissioning or manage the spent fuel.
1 So that was a commitment they made and we 2
agreed that was okay. Does that answer your question?
3 MR. ROTHSTEIN: Partially. I wasn't 4
questioning the decision of the NRC.
5 My question is more related to regulatory 6
policy in terms of even if the funding is deemed by 7
NRC to be sufficient in that case or in the case for 8
Pilgrim for any future exemptions that may be granted 9
by the NRC is there a current or even a proposed 10 regulatory requirement that such monies recovered from 11 DOE be placed back into the DTF in the event that the 12 licensee has needed to use any portion of the DTF for 13 spent fuel management?
14 MR. WATSON: Well, I guess I'll have to 15 answer your question this way. First of all, you're 16 not supposed to be using decommissioning funds for 17 spent fuel management without our prior approval such 18 as in Vermont because they agreed to put the money 19 back into the fund.
20 But there is no requirement to take the 21 money that you get back from DOE back into the spent 22 fuel fund in order to manage the spent fuel into the 23 future.
24 However, there is a requirement that you 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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65 maintain sufficient funds to make sure the fuel 1
remains safely into the future and that it's properly 2
managed and kept under good security.
3 MR. ROTHSTEIN: I'm satisfied with that, 4
Bruce. What concerns me is why is there not an NRC 5
regulation that spells that out even from a simple 6
bean counting exercise to make sure those monies which 7
were used for spent fuel management costs would go 8
back in terms of recoverable funds from DOE?
9 I know you can't answer that totally. But 10 it's more of a recommendation.
11 MR. WATSON: Yes, I understand that. The 12 decommissioning trust fund is supposed to be 13 independent and sufficient to reasonably, to give us 14 reasonable assurance that they can complete the 15 decommissioning fund.
16 And that's why we have a separation 17 between the two funds designated for the two different 18 issues.
19 MR. ROTHSTEIN: And please note I'm not 20 questioning about NRC's ability to watch everything as 21 carefully as you intend to do and do there, but having 22 that regulation in place is just another belt and 23 suspenders there. Thank you.
24 MR. WATSON: Thank you.
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66 MS. JANDA: Next speaker is Number 13.
1 MR. AGNEW: No real concern. The 2
industry's captive regulatory agency has raised 3
Pilgrim from Column 4 to Column 1. I take that as a 4
bad joke but also as a sign that things with our local 5
Mark 1 BWR have been worse.
6 And I'm counting the 67 days until 7
Pilgrim's final shutdown and the unknown number of 8
days until the final defueling of the reactor and 9
removal of all (inaudible) material from the pool.
10 As the Patriot Ledger wrote, "what the 11 public and the regulators need to watch now is how 12 well decommissioning is done." No cutting corners, no 13 substandard materials, no shoddy work.
14 Given that Entergy seeks to hand off 15 Pilgrim to SNC-Lavalin, a scandal plagued outfit 16 facing fraud and corruption charges in relation to 17 millions of dollars of bribes given to Libyan 18 officials, it's not a great start.
19 Abuse of the populous by the nuclear 20 industry will continue. How much abuse? At least as 21 much as the public will tolerate.
22 After 47 years of Pilgrim polluting the 23 environment with radionuclides Entergy Holtec wants 24 the Commonwealth and its citizens to have no say 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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67 regarding decommissioning claiming the would be 1
interveners rely on speculation.
2 As if the corporations don't speculate 3
with their own projections. It's ludicrous that the 4
NRC has allowed Entergy to put nary a penny into 5
Pilgrim's decommissioning trust fund in the 19 years 6
they've been the licensed operator.
7 Entergy says that the fund has enough 8
money. The Commonwealth needn't worry it's pretty 9
little head. And they want to tap into the DTF to 10 deal with the waste fuel, the pad, casks, transfer of 11 the high level waste.
12 I guess they failed to speculate that 13 these things would be needed. And by the way, Entergy 14 expects the rate payers to pay Plymouth $13 million 15 for hosting their liability.
16 I wish we could trust the NRC to disallow 17 these obvious attempts at theft. But as former NRC 18 Commissioner Victor Gilinsky said, the Agency is a 19 wholly owned subsidiary of the nuclear power industry.
20 I don't know if I mentioned, I'm David 21 Agnew from Harwich.
22 MS. JANDA: Thank you. Next speaker, 23 Number 9.
24 MS. CHIN: Hi, yes. I'm Rebecca Chin.
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68 I'm the co-chair of the Nuclear Advisory Committee for 1
the Town of Duxbury.
2 I have a comment. I've been listening to 3
what will happen with the NRC during decommissioning.
4 My concern is that you will actually have 5
eyes on the ground and you will be protecting the 6
public health and safety of the environment here which 7
we care about.
8 My question is that when you do your final 9
sampling and you send it to your labs to determine the 10 clean up standard, are you going to have split samples 11 so the Massachusetts Department of Public Health can 12 also confirm those numbers?
13 MR. WATSON: Yes, this is Bruce Watson.
14 I'll answer that. The state is welcome to take as 15 many samples and do their own independent analysis as 16 they choose.
17 We will be doing normally sampling on our 18 own, independent sampling of the licensee. But we 19 will also split samples with the licensee to verify 20 the performance of their laboratory because our 21 laboratory is world class.
22 It's always in the top one percent of the 23 laboratories performing in the country. So, yes, 24 there will be split sampling with the licensee to 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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69 verify their lab work and also we'll be taking our own 1
independent samples at the completion of the clean up 2
to make sure that it meets our standards for meeting 3
our unrestricted release criteria.
4 MS. CHIN: But you won't do split samples 5
of your samples with the Massachusetts Department of 6
Public Health? You're going to make them take their 7
own samples?
8 MR. WATSON: It's up to them if they want 9
to do that. But my point is that they're welcome to 10 take their samples if they choose to. It's up to, 11 whatever they would like to do we are willing to talk 12 about that.
13 It just costs money to do that and it's up 14 to them whether they want to expend the funds or not 15 because we have a very good program, I'll say an 16 excellent program for verification of the final status 17 of the sites.
18 MS. JANDA: Thank you. The next speaker 19 is Number 20.
20 MS. CALDWELL: So I'm almost 74 and I've 21 been fighting all the problems with nuclear power 22 plants it seems like more than half my lifetime. And 23 when I was in graduate school it was the honor system 24 and we were supposed to try and do our best and be the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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70 best.
1 And when we couldn't be the best then we 2
would go back and try to be the best. And when we 3
made a mistake we would try harder and harder and 4
harder until somebody would tell us this is not good 5
enough and then we would go back and try to be better.
6 And when I look at the Nuclear Regulatory 7
Commission I am just so sad because I know you all 8
want to be your best. I know you want to go home at 9
night proud of what you've done.
10 And all that I hear at the Citizen's 11 Advisory meeting or with you is failures when we 12 couldn't live up to my expectations of what the best 13 is. So this is my question.
14 How can we have nuclear power in the 15 United States when we can't plan how to decommission 16 a plant safely so that it can go 50 years into the 17 future, 100 years into the future? We're just arguing 18 about a few seven years of decommissioning and then 19 the money runs out.
20 When are we going to tell the people of 21 the United States that we don't know how we're going 22 to decommission a plant? The people of the United 23 States are not going to allow nuclear waste from one 24 state to travel to another state.
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71 They'll be more massive riots about 1
nuclear waste passing through any state than we've 2
seen to date. So if they're not going to allow them 3
to travel to any site that's forced to take it, it 4
means that Pilgrim and Yankee and all the plants 5
across the country have to be safe for storage.
6 But you said, this gentleman over here 7
that we're worried about money. So we're worried 8
about money.
9 We don't have enough money to really put 10 in thicker steel or thicker casks or watch cracks or 11 we don't even have enough money to go through what 12 Entergy has done to find out where the spills and 13 mistakes are.
14 How do I know that, because at the 15 Citizen's Advisory meeting when we asked where are the 16 spills and we keep saying where are the spills, where 17 are the spills and they say it's a lot of paperwork to 18 go through and find the spills.
19 So I guess this is rambling and I can see 20 your faces. I guess I'm just really depressed about 21 the bad state of the nuclear power industry.
22 And I don't see how we can hire Holtec.
23 I don't see how we can hire Holtec who doesn't have 24 the money to deal with a mistake or deal with a spill 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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72 or deal with anything except the chaos we're in.
1 I'm sorry it wasn't written up. I'm just 2
depressed about the future of the industry and 3
Plymouth.
4 PARTICIPANT: I apologize if we had facial 5
expressions. It was in an attempt to try and better 6
understand. And I think what you're saying here is 7
just a statement, rhetorical.
8 Was there anything specific you wanted us 9
to try and answer?
10 MS. CALDWELL: No.
11 MS. JANDA: Ma'am. Could you give your 12 name for the record? I'm sorry.
13 MS. CALDWELL: Irene Caldwell.
14 MS. JANDA: Thank you. Next speaker is 15 Number 21.
16 MR. BURKE: My name is Kevin Burke. And 17 I've been coming to these meetings off and on for over 18 20 years. I've not been a true dedicated activist 19 with regard to the nuclear industry.
20 And I thank you people who I follow in the 21 newspaper for what you've done to keep this on track.
22 And tonight I can tell you that I don't feel much 23 confidence in terms of what's going to happen in the 24 future.
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73 I see the ocean levels rising. I see not 1
enough attention being paid to these casks and 2
ultimately where they're going to go. I just don't 3
understand how we ended up in the mess that we're in.
4 I read the newspaper about a woman who 5
left the Cape in a banged up car and drove right up to 6
the reactor. This was in the Globe. Where is the 7
security?
8 I just, it's beyond me. I met a man down 9
on the canal. He was an engineer over at the nuclear 10 reactor and he had retired. And he had a cap on.
11 And it said Kellogg, Brown and Root. And 12 I said to him isn't that the same firm that is 13 involved in Iraq? He said, yes. I said do you work 14 for them, where do you work?
15 And he said I work over at the Pilgrim 16 Plant. And I said give me an insight into how things 17 are going over there. This was about five years ago.
18 He said well I'll tell you a little story.
19 We use pumps to pump water. And we've got pumps 20 coming in and the pumps didn't have the proper packing 21 in them.
22 So I told my supervisor do not use those 23 pumps because we have to get the packing that goes in 24 there that keeps them watertight. So he had gone away 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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74 on vacation and lo and behold he got a panicked 1
telephone call they had taken, one of the pumps had 2
broken down and they used this pump, supposedly new 3
pump and put it in its place.
4 And they had a room full of radioactive 5
water. Now you don't hear about any of this stuff.
6 You hear about the anecdotal stuff and it really makes 7
you wonder what the hell is going on.
8 So once again, I thank my concerned 9
citizens for their dedication and I hope it just keeps 10 us out of trouble. But just remember the thermal 11 expansion of the ocean is out there and you can't stop 12 that.
13 MS. JANDA: Thank you. Next speaker will 14 be Number 14. Number 18.
15 MR. PERRY: My name is Doug Perry. I'm a 16 resident of Plymouth and an employee of the plant.
17 And I
just wanted to express my 18 appreciation to my coworkers and friends at the plant 19 for the hard work and dedication that it's taken over 20 the last three or four years, I guess, to work through 21 the recovery and also for the folks who preceded them 22 and us and the 47 years of safe, reliable plant 23 operation and, you know, I guess the contribution that 24 Pilgrim has made to carbon-free energy here in New 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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75 England over the last well 47 years. Thanks.
1 MS. JANDA: Thank you. Next speaker, 2
Number 18.
3 MR. PERRY: I was 18.
4 MS. JANDA: You were 18, sorry, Number 12.
5 MR. DOVE: Hi, good evening, folks. My 6
name is Dan Dove, a citizen here in Plymouth part time 7
while I work at the power plant. I've been there 8
approximately five years.
9 And I wanted to respond to some of the 10 questions regarding the sampling. In my position I do 11 what's called (inaudible) shipping.
So I'm 12 responsible for sending off the samples that you 13 people are talking about.
14 And in regards to Massachusetts Department 15 of Health and Public Safety I send them samples 16 regularly. They are split samples. Chemistry takes 17 the samples.
18 We send part to a lab that is a lab we 19 choose and we also send them to Massachusetts 20 Department of Health. So to say that you don't know 21 what we're going to do, we already do it.
22 We're going to continue to do it in 23 decommissioning. In regards to Oak Ridge National 24 Labs and the ORISE facility I've been there. I've 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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76 seen how they work.
1 It's a great facility. In regards to 2
moving from Column 4 to Column 1 if you think three 3
years is a short period of time, I don't think so.
4 It didn't take them that long when they 5
said hey, we've got a bunch of problems here at 6
Pilgrim. Did they move us from 1, 2 to 3 to 4? No, 7
didn't happen that way.
8 So to go the opposite direction in three 9
years I don't think is a big deal. Let's talk about 10 costs. Things I know factually, I've worked for Plum 11 Brook which was part of NASA at a decommissioning 12 there.
13 And you want to talk about costs I'll tell 14 you what costs cost. They did a study in 1976 and the 15 good people said it's going to cost a million dollars 16 to decommission that.
17 Way too much money, can't do it. Fast 18 forward, waited until 1998. It cost $250 million just 19 20 short years later. We have a billion dollars in 20 our trust fund.
21 Eight years may seem aggressive. You say 22 Holtec has never done it before. Someone has to be 23 first. You can't have one company do all the 24 decommissionings otherwise people are just going to 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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77 stack up.
1 So long story short, as an employee of the 2
Entergy Company I'm proud to work there. I think we 3
do a great job. I think our NRC oversight keeps us in 4
check.
5 And you know what, we've created lots of 6
tools. They're in this little book right here, 7
Achieving and Sustaining Excellence.
Human 8
performance tools you can work with, you can live by.
9 That's all I have. Thank you so much.
10 MS. JANDA: Thank you. Next speaker will 11 be Number 10.
12 MS. GASLIC: Good evening. My name is 13 Mary Gaslic (phonetic). I'm a resident of Plymouth.
14 I've been here for 34 years. And for the sake of 15 transparency I am also an employee of the Pilgrim 16 Nuclear Power Station.
17 And I've worked there for 24 years. All 18 right, this is the last public meeting we're going to 19 have as an operating nuclear power plant. You know, 20 it kind of saddens me.
21 It would have been nice to continue to 22 provide clean, carbon-free energy until 2032. But 23 that's not the case here. I was not surprised when 24 the plant, I'm not surprised that the plant is back in 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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78 Column 1.
1 The return to Column 1 was not because of 2
fairy dust, by no matter but rather the hard work and 3
the dedication of the employees and the individuals 4
there. And I have seen it, I've been a part of it.
5 And so anybody to say anything else is a 6
slap in the face to those guys that work there. The 7
NRC annual assessment letter indicated that Pilgrim 8
had demonstrated sustained improvement.
9 The plant had addressed all of the reactor 10 oversight program items that had initially moved it to 11 Column 4 and had completed all of the recovery plan 12 items that were in the Confirmatory Action Letter.
13 I'll tell you what the best part of 14 reading that letter was. You know what it was, it was 15 reading those words Pilgrim will transition out of 16 Column 4 and into Column 1.
17 As the plants sets down the road to 18 decommissioning it still will be with NRC oversight.
19 It's not like the wild west where anything goes.
20 The plant will be decommissioned under 21 guidelines just as strict whether it's under safe 22 store DCON (phonetic) the same vigor will be applied 23 so that the process will be done safely and 24 environmentally sound.
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79 And as a resident of Plymouth I'm not 1
afraid of having dry cask storage in the town. I am 2
however disappointed that the government has not lived 3
up to the contract that they, the contract and 4
supplied the nuclear industry with a final repository.
5 This has been an ongoing battle since the 6
1980s. I implore you, the NRC, to grant the DOE's 7
license application for the (inaudible) Project.
8 And I as a citizen promise you that I will 9
tell my lawmakers to get off their duffs and approve 10 it. Thank you.
11 MS. JANDA: Thank you. Next speaker will 12 be Number 5.
13 (Off microphone comments.)
14 PARTICIPANT:
All
- right, question.
15 Entergy has said that if there's a problem with the 16 casks that they would be putting an overpack over the 17 cask as their way to resolve that. Are you aware of 18 that situation?
19 PARTICIPANT: We're aware that the 20 manufacturers are, that is their plan for any 21 potential degradation of the casks in the future.
22 Right now I don't have any physical evidence of that 23 right now other than for the new home facilities.
24 PARTICIPANT: Okay. And has the NRC 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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80 approved that?
1 PARTICIPANT: They have not submitted them 2
for our approval yet.
3 PARTICIPANT: Okay, all right. Well 4
Entergy is saying that's what they're going to do with 5
the casks, the 17 on the pad now.
6 But I just want to go back to Mr. Lew.
7 You mentioned when we talked before that, you know, 8
that Entergy has taken care, during that January storm 9
scram that Entergy has taken care of the switch yard 10 and everything.
11 But my question was regarding off site 12 loss of power. And you brought it back to the switch 13 yard and that everything is fine there.
14 I want to read from your website, okay 15 that they have to take action based on criteria by the 16 National Weather Service forecast. This is from your 17 website.
18 For the most severe cases the intent of 19 the directed action is to reduce the risk of core 20 damage due to a loss of off site power by reducing the 21 plant's heat load before the loss of off site power 22 occurs.
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81 power is high the procedures change is now direct 1
shutting the plant down and immediately placing the 2
shutdown cooling system in service to cool down to 3
less than 200 degrees.
4 That is your, on your website regarding 5
loss of off site power and that didn't happen during 6
that storm. And are you also aware during the March 7
4th storm that the governor declared no, a travel ban 8
and the local emergency directors said they could not 9
implement their emergency plans?
10 And they sent that to the Massachusetts 11 Emergency Management Agency which pushed it up to the 12 NRC. So here we have a situation where our local 13 emergency directors are saying they cannot protect the 14 public, they cannot implement their emergency plans 15 and the NRC sat on it for 40 hours4.62963e-4 days <br />0.0111 hours <br />6.613757e-5 weeks <br />1.522e-5 months <br /> until the MEMA 16 reported back to them that it was all clear.
17 MR. LEW: So let me try and address and 18 certainly 14 months ago I want to make sure, I want to 19 caveat that I probably need to go back and take a look 20 at it.
21 My recollection though relative to the 22 January event was the only loss, when you talk about 23 loss of off site power we ought to be clear in terms 24 of are you losing all loss of off site power in that 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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82 particular case.
1 My recollection and may look for some help 2
here was only one line --
3 PARTICIPANT: That's true.
4 MR. LEW: -- of off site power was lost.
5 PARTICIPANT: Right, that's true, yes.
6 MR. LEW: And actually Brandon was 7
actually, were you on site for --
8 PARTICIPANT: And shortly after that the 9
second line went down, yes.
10 MR. LEW: Not in January, okay. So just 11 a clarification that it was one line of off site 12 power. The licensee then took corrective actions to 13 shut the plant down. Relative to the --
14 PARTICIPANT: Loss of off site power, yes.
15 MR. LEW: -- MEMA that was back in March 16 of 2018 --
17 PARTICIPANT: March, yes.
18 MR. LEW: -- you are talking about. And 19 so when we receive the information and I believe Doug 20 Tift (phonetic) who is also here received that 21 information that evening about the question about 22 evacuation I will offer that MEMA and FEMA worked 23 through the night so not 40 hours4.62963e-4 days <br />0.0111 hours <br />6.613757e-5 weeks <br />1.522e-5 months <br />, but worked through 24 the night and made a determination relative to the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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83 ability to evacuate.
1 So that call goes to MEMA and FEMA. From 2
the NRC's perspective, you know, certainly it's the 3
role of MEMA and FEMA to make that determination. But 4
from our perspective we establish a defense in depth 5
approach.
6 And emergency preparedness is just one of 7
those defense in depth. And from our perspective the 8
short period of time that MEMA and FEMA took to make 9
that decision and make that call was reasonable and it 10 would be inappropriate based on that to order the 11 plant to shut down.
12 And relative to defense in depth during 13 that storm Entergy did in fact strengthen their safety 14 defenses in terms of actions for severe weather, 15 multiple actions that they have. And we were on site 16 verifying that they completed those actions and 17 ensuring that the plan continued to operate safely.
18 PARTICIPANT: Yes, and I was here, the 19 inspectors were on site during the storm June '02 when 20 it crashed, yes.
21 But so we see repetitive degraded nuclear 22 reactor still operating, the valves are repetitively 23 degrading. There is mismanagement. There is ongoing 24 issues that should still keep it in Column 4.
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84 They're not resolved. But that's why we 1
call for the abolishment of the Nuclear Regulatory 2
Commission to be replaced by an interstate 3
governmental agency.
4 MR. LEW: So if I can just ask Donna at 5
this point just for transparency and how we want to 6
move forward. Do you want to discuss how we want to 7
move forward since we've gone through the first round 8
of questions and we're continuing?
9 MS. JANDA: Yes. So before we go to any 10 other questions and then I can answer that. Dave, we 11 were going to offer up some more time because we still 12 have time before the end of the meeting.
13 It's scheduled into 8:45. So if there are 14 other people. But before we get to that, one sec. I 15 understand there is a selectman who would like to make 16 a statement. If that's the case please come forward.
17 MR. MAHONEY: Good evening, everyone.
18 John Mahoney from the Plymouth Board of Selectpersons.
19 My colleague Shelagh Joyce and third colleague is in 20 the room, Chairman of the Board of Selectmen back 21 there is Kenneth Tavares.
22 So in a meeting we were a little tardy.
23 We got here late because we had a 5 o'clock meeting 24 that ran a little late. But we appreciate everybody 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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85 coming out.
1 Every time I see Bruce he knows this is 2
one of his favorite stops throughout the course of the 3
year and he tells me that all the time. But we 4
appreciate the passion that is being shown by the 5
individuals in the room.
6 You can tell and I certainly appreciate 7
your patience with respect to answering their 8
questions. But you can tell this is a significant 9
thing not only to the community but to an entire 10 region.
11 I would say it's one of the top issues in 12 the state but certainly in the region south of Quincy 13 and out to "P" (phonetic) Town it's, this is right up 14 there. So we're looking forward to working with you 15 in a partnership.
16 We want a safe and prompt decommissioning 17 process. And one of the prior speakers referenced, I 18 think evidenced based or everything was based on 19 engineers.
20 Yes, we want it to be non-political and, 21 you know, just a disciplined process moving forward so 22 that, you know, ten years down the road, God willing, 23 you know, this thing is behind us and we can move on.
24 Thank you.
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86 MS. JOYCE: And if I could just emphasize 1
as well transparency and communication are a priority 2
as well. So we appreciate your time and your effort 3
and look forward to the rest of the meeting. Thank 4
you.
5 MS. JANDA: Thank you. Did we get your 6
name, I'm sorry.
7 MS. JOYCE: My name is Shelagh Joyce, one 8
of the Plymouth Selectmen.
9 MS. JANDA: Thank you.
10 MS. LAMPERT: Mary Lampert, Pilgrim Watch.
11 Question to Bruce. I didn't quite get the details of 12 your response to Rebecca Chin on the NRC's plan for 13 environmental monitoring.
14 So help me out here. Do I understand that 15 the NRC itself, and this would be a couple years 16 before termination I guess, takes actual samples and 17 sends it to the laboratory?
18 Do you also take some of the split samples 19 from Entergy and send those for verification also to 20 the laboratory then the results of your samples, the 21 results of the split samples are they made public in 22 a timely manner or do you put the results up on your 23 website?
24 Next question is what Mass Department of 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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87 Public Health, how they would interface? Would they 1
just send some of their samples and that would be 2
ridiculous that they test in their own lab in Jamaica 3
Plain or instead do they get a split from NRC's sample 4
and a split from the split of, that sounds ridiculous, 5
but of Entergy's sample to be able to see the results?
6 And would MDPH have to pay the cost of 7
this or is there a procedure other than legislation in 8
the State of Massachusetts to assess the licensee for 9
the environmental monitoring? Last question, could 10 you direct me to whatever regulation or NUREG 11 discusses this?
12 MR. WATSON: Well I think I counted 15 13 questions. But I lost count after 12. All kidding 14 aside, the one thing I want you to realize is that the 15 NRC environmental monitoring program which is in 16 effect today continues all the way almost to the end.
17 And by that I mean at the end there is 18 hopefully nothing to measure, okay. So we will do our 19 independent sampling all through the process.
20 We will have our samples analyzed just 21 like we would do today if the residents or the HP 22 inspectors that inspect the plant will take samples 23 and they'll be analyzed by our independent laboratory 24 just like it is today.
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88 One of the things I wanted to, we don't 1
necessarily publish results on the website. But they 2
are referenced in inspection reports or discussed in 3
inspection reports. So those are publicly available.
4 As far as the splitting samples with 5
Massachusetts Department of Public Health, I think 6
it's MPH, I was glad you brought this back because 7
Rebecca Chin, yes, I had some more thoughts after you 8
sat down.
9 And at Maine Yankee they had the state 10 inspectors doing sampling and surveys. And we always 11 compared results with them. I don't recall 12 specifically splitting samples with them.
13 But we always compared results. The State 14 of Connecticut also with Connecticut Yankee because I 15 was involved, very much involved in Maine Yankee.
16 So we worked with the, they had, typically 17 had two inspectors there frequently. I'm trying to 18 think of the guy's name. Pat Dosties (phonetic) was 19 the name, as a matter of fact. He was an employee of 20 the state.
21 And one of his jobs was to follow up on 22 the, just like we did on inspections and doing surveys 23 and sampling. So, yes, there's an opportunity to do 24 that.
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89 It depends on what the State of 1
Massachusetts, MPH decides they want to do. They can 2
discuss that with us. You know, we, I'm sure they 3
have their own lab which you mentioned which I'm sure 4
is a quality lab.
5 I'm sure they do the kind of, what we call 6
the inter-comparison laboratory tests with blind 7
testing to make sure they have a good quality control 8
on their laboratory just like our lab does.
9 But as far as funding that's up to the 10 state how they fund their own programs. There's 11 nothing that I know that the NRC provides to them.
12 It's really their choice on what level of 13 involvement they want to have in the decommissioning.
14 So I think I answered most of your questions.
15 PARTICIPANT: And is there a NUREG?
16 MR. WATSON: There is an inspection 17 procedure. We do talk about sampling I think in NUREG 18 1757, Volume 2. That's a thick volume.
19 It's a lot of technical stuff. I'll admit 20 that. And we're in the process of actually revising 21 that. It's going to be even thicker for the stuff 22 we've learned over the last ten years.
23 So, you know, it will definitely help you 24 with your sleeping, at least it does me. Just 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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90 kidding, anyway, there is some guidance on that.
1 I can't think of anything specifically.
2 It covers a cadre of technical issues that also 3
includes a verification and when we do sampling 4
throughout the decommissioning process to validate the 5
licensee's historical site assessment, the 6
characterization actually going out and doing what we 7
call in process surveys where we do them side by side 8
with the licensee to see how good their program is 9
with our inspectors and our experts.
10 And also do the split sampling to verify 11 their lab works, they are getting quality results. We 12 have had issues with contracted laboratories that some 13 of the licensees have used, not specifically the 14 utilities but other labs that, in material sites.
15 And also of course I just talked about the 16 independent verification at the end to make sure that 17 they've met our criteria for the actually terminated 18 license.
19 (Off microphone comment.)
20 MR. WATSON: That would be when they 21 complete that. The licensee will generally start that 22 at the beginning of the decommissioning. And that is 23 generally based on what's called the 10 CFR, yes, G 24 file.
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91 Yes, and that's the regulation that was 1
put in place back in the 1990s. And it was 2
established to capture data related to spills and 3
other radiological events or mishaps so that the, it's 4
basically established a record that's important to 5
decommissioning.
6 I know there is a file there at Pilgrim.
7 I've already talked with the residents about taking a 8
good look at that and having our inspectors look at 9
that.
10 So there is a large, fairly large file on 11 that from issues that they've had through the years.
12 So keep in mind when the plant goes into 13 decommissioning many of the things that we do today 14 when the plant is in operation continue into 15 decommissioning.
16 And that includes the environmental 17 monitoring program. Excuse me, it is the same, okay.
18 That program continues.
19 And so that in association with the rules 20 that we put into
- place, what we call the 21 decommissioning planning rules in 2012 with the 22 additional groundwater monitoring up close to the 23 plant give us a good assessment on the radiological 24 situation at the site as well as the licensee and for 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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92 planning decommissioning.
1 So like I said, that rule was intended to 2
detect leaks up close to the plant so that you detect 3
it early so that the plant would know there is a leak 4
to go fix it and most utilities have done that. So 5
it's really to prevent large areas getting 6
contaminated.
7 MS. JANDA: Is there anybody else who 8
would like an opportunity to speak who hasn't had a 9
chance? Sir.
10 MR. COUGHLIN: Joe Coughlin, resident of 11 Plymouth. Also a member of the NDCAP. I want to 12 thank Bruce for attending our NDCAP meeting the day 13 after you all were here last January.
14 One of the issues that came up at that 15 meeting was, and comes up at a lot of meetings, the 16 adequacy of the DTF. A question was raised in that 17 regard that if the licensee who says with their 18 filings with you that the, they can do the full 19 decommissioning job in compliance with your 20 requirements based on the amount of funds in the DTF.
21 But if during that decommissioning process 22 the funds in the DTF prove to be inadequate the 23 question was raised in regard to that using this term.
24 Could the corporate veil be pieced?
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93 Meaning that if there are other companies 1
involved even though they're not the direct licensee 2
could in essence they be gone after to acquire the 3
additional funds that may be necessary to complete the 4
decommissioning process so such a burden would not 5
fall on the host community, such as Plymouth and/or 6
the Commonwealth.
7 Bruce, I think you said at that time that 8
the NRC's attorneys were looking into that issue. Is 9
it possible to give us an update on where they may be 10 in researching that?
11 MR.
WATSON:
Yes.
Excuse me, 12 unfortunately, you know, we have this, we're in 13 hearing space with the contentions that have been 14 filed.
15 So I kind of have to be careful here what 16 I say just to be --
17 MR. COUGHLIN: Sure.
18 MR. WATSON: -- honest with you. Right 19 now I'll tell you what the process is. And that is 20 the regulations require at the end of March, March 21 31st that the licensees report to us the status of 22 those decommissioning funds for the previous year.
23 And so we take a look at those, what 24 they're reporting to us. It can be verified through 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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94 the independent trustee what those funds really are, 1
true that they're there.
2 And so each year we will be doing an 3
evaluation to ensure that the amount of funding is 4
reasonable to complete the decommissioning. If we 5
feel it's not we will address that to the licensee to 6
come up with a plan on how they're going to recover 7
that money in order to ensure that there are adequate 8
funds or a reasonable amount of assurance that the 9
funds are going to be there to complete the 10 decommissioning.
11 So that review goes on annually. And also 12 so that's fundamentally what we do to verify that 13 there is adequate funding throughout the 14 decommissioning.
15 MR. COUGHLIN: So would it be safe to 16 assume that going through that process if in one of 17 those annual updates the issue arose that there 18 appeared not to be adequate funding to complete the 19 decommissioning process and you then went back to the 20 licensee to rectify that, that the NRC probably 21 wouldn't care where the funds came from as long as the 22 funds were made available to complete the process?
23 MR. WATSON: I would have to say that's 24 probably a true statement. I don't know that we've 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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95 had that happen to my knowledge because I haven't been 1
following the financial parts very closely.
2 I know that we have one self-funded plant 3
for an (inaudible) 1 that is kind of funded from the 4
utility. It never had a decommissioning fund. It 5
only operated for a couple years.
6 And that the utility has actually been 7
directly funding that. And so they stopped 8
decommissioning right now to allow the fund to grow 9
back.
10 But they're about 90 percent complete on 11 the decommissioning. And, you know, they did a 12 significant amount of work to get there. And so now 13 they're letting the funds grow.
14 MR. COUGHLIN: Thank you.
15 MS. JANDA: All right, thank you. Are 16 there any other individuals who would like to speak or 17 have any questions that haven't had a chance yet?
18 Okay, so I believe this will end the 19 public meeting and I'm going to ask Dave if he has any 20 final --
21 MR. LEW: Just a very, a big thank you to 22 everybody. I do appreciate the respect that you've 23 shown each other and the questions.
24 And certainly, you know, if you do have 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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96 any other questions, you know, as always we remain 1
available to answer those questions either one on one 2
or afterwards. Thank you.
3 MS. JANDA: Thank you very much for 4
attending tonight.
5 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went 6
off the record at 8:17 p.m.)
7 8
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