ML14143A212
| ML14143A212 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Palisades  |
| Issue date: | 04/08/2014 |
| From: | Division of Operating Reactor Licensing |
| To: | |
| M. Chawla, NRR/DORL | |
| References | |
| NRC-693 | |
| Download: ML14143A212 (41) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION Title: 10 CFR 2.206 Petition Review Board RE Palisades Nuclear Plant Docket Number: (n/a)
Location: teleconference Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2014
Work Order No.: NRC-693 Pages 1-41 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC. Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 1 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2 + + + + + 3 10 CFR 2.206 PETITION REVIEW BOARD (PRB) 4 CONFERENCE CALL 5 RE 6 PALISADES NUCLEAR PLANT 7 + + + + + 8 TUESDAY 9 APRIL 8, 2014 10 + + + + + 11 The conference call was held, Louise Lund, 12 Chairperson of the Petition Review Board, presiding. 13 14 PETITIONER: MICHAEL MULLIGAN 15 16 PETITION REVIEW BOARD MEMBERS 17 LOUISE LUND, Chair, Deputy Division Director 18 Division of Reactor Licensing, NRR 19 DAVID ALLEY, Senior Materials Engineer, 20 Division of Engineering 21 REED ANZALONE, General Engineer, Nuclear 22 Performance & Code Review Branch 23 LEE BANIC, Petition Coordinator, NRR 24 BOB CARLSON, Branch Chief, Division of 25 2 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Operating Reactor Licensing 1 MAC CHAWLA, Petition Manager for 2.206 2 Petition 3 GANESH CHERUVENKI, Materials Engineer, 4 Division of Engineering 5 RUSS HASKELL, Operating Experience Branch, 6 NRR 7 JOSHUA KAIZER, Reactor Systems Engineer, NRR 8 WARREN LYON, Senior Reactor Systems Engineer, 9 Reactor Systems Branch 10 BOB WOLFGANG, Senior Mechanical Engineer, 11 Division of Engineering 12 13 NRC HEADQUARTERS STAFF 14 JEREMY DEAN, Branch Chief, Nuclear Performance 15 & Code Review Branch 16 LINDSAY ROBINSON, Project Manager, Division of 17 License Renewal 18 SHELDON STUCHELL, Branch Chief, Generic 19 Communications 20 21 REGION III STAFF 22 BRENT BOSTON, Reactor Engineer, Division of 23 Reactor Projects 24 ERIC DUNCAN, Branch Chief, Reactor Projects 25 3 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Branch 3 1 ALEX GARMOE, Senior Resident Inspector 2 JAY LENNARTZ, Project Engineer, Division of 3 Reactor Projects 4 5 LICENSEE STAFF 6 BARBARA DOTSON 7 LINDSAY ROSE 8 4 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 P R O C E E D I N G S 1 11:00 2 a.m. 3 MR. CHAWLA: Okay, all right. I'd like to 4 thank everybody for attending this meeting. My name is 5 Mac Chawla, and I'm the Project Manager for the 6 Palisades Nuclear Plant. We are here to allow the 7 petitioner, Mike Mulligan, to address the Petition 8 Review Board regarding the 2.206 petition dated March 9 5, 2014. 10 I'm also the petition manager for the 11 petition. The Petition Review Board Chairman is Louise 12 Lund. As part of the Petition Review Board's, or PRB's, 13 review of this petition, Mike Mulligan has requested 14 this opportunity to address the PRB. 15 This meeting is scheduled from 11 a.m. to 16 12 p.m. Eastern time. The meeting is being recorded by 17 the NRC Operations Center and will be transcribed by a 18 court reporter. The transcripts will become a 19 supplement to this petition. The transcript will also 20 be made publicly available. 21 I would like to open this meeting with 22 introductions. As we go around the room, please be sure 23 to clearly state your name, your position, and the 24 office that you work for within the NRC for the record. 25 5 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 I'll start off. My name again is Mac 1 Chawla. I'm the petition manager. I'll go around the 2 table here. 3 CHAIR LUND: I'm Louise Lund. I'm the 4 deputy division director for the Division of Operating 5 Reactor Licensing in the Office of Nuclear Reactor 6 Regulation. 7 MR. WOLFGANG: Bob Wolfgang. I'm a senior 8 mechanical engineer in the Division of Engineering. 9 MR. LYON: Warren Lyon, senior reactor 10 systems engineer with the Reactor Systems Branch. 11 Hello, Mike. I grew up in Peterborough. I just wanted 12 to say hello to a fellow person from New Hampshire. 13 MR. MULLIGAN: The snow is all gone 14 finally. 15 MS. BANIC: Lee Banic, petition 16 coordinator, Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation. 17 MR. HASKELL: Russ Haskell with the Office 18 of Nuclear Reactor Regulation in the Operating 19 Experience Branch. 20 MR. ALLEY: Dave Alley, senior materials 21 engineer, Division of Engineering. 22 MR. CHERUVENKI: Ganesh Cheruvenki, 23 materials engineer, Division of Engineering. 24 MR. KAIZER: Joshua Kaizer, reactor 25 6 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 systems engineer, Nuclear Regulation, NRR. 1 MR. CARLSON: Bob Carlson, branch chief, 2 Division of Operating Reactor Licensing. 3 MR. ANZALONE: Reed Anzalone, general 4 engineer, Nuclear Performance and Code Review Branch, 5 Division of Safety. 6 MS. ROBINSON: Lindsay Robinson, Division 7 of License Renewal, project manager. 8 MR. CHAWLA: Okay. We have completed the 9 introductions at the NRC Headquarters. At this time, 10 are there any other people from Headquarters on the 11 phone? 12 (No response.) 13 MR. CHAWLA: Hearing none, are there any 14 NRC participants from regional office on the phone? 15 MR. DUNCAN: Yes, Mac. This is Eric 16 Duncan. I'm the branch chief for Palisades here at 17 Region 3, and there's a couple of others here, as well. 18 They'll introduce themselves. 19 MR. LENNARTZ: This is Jay Lennartz. I'm 20 the project engineer for Palisades. 21 MR. BOSTON: Good morning. This is Brent 22 Boston. I'm a reactor engineer in DRP here at Region 23 3. 24 MR. DUNCAN: That's it, Mac. 25 7 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MR. CHAWLA: Is there any representatives 1 for the licensee on the phone? Please introduce 2 yourself. 3 MS. DOTSON: Barb Dotson, Regulatory 4 Assurance. 5 MS. ROSE: Lindsay Rose, communications 6 specialist. 7 MR. CHAWLA: We do have a couple more folks 8 from Headquarters who have joined. Please introduce 9 yourself. 10 MR. STUCHELL: Sheldon Stuchell, branch 11 chief, Generic Communications. 12 MR. DEAN: Jeremy Dean, branch chief, 13 Nuclear Performance and Codes. 14 MR. CHAWLA: Mr. Mulligan, would you 15 please introduce yourself for the record? 16 MR. MULLIGAN: Hi. I'm Mike Mulligan and 17 -- I'm sorry? 18 MR. DUNCAN: Sorry, Mike. We need to get 19 the residents, as well, and anybody else -- 20 MR. CHAWLA: Sorry. I thought you said 21 everybody was . . . 22 MR. GARMOE: Yes, Mac, it's Alex Garmoe, 23 NRC, senior resident inspector. 24 MR. CHAWLA: Okay. Then that's everybody 25 8 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 from NRC. So back to Mr. Mulligan. Mr. Mulligan, 1 would you please introduce yourself for the record? 2 MR. MULLIGAN: I'm Mike Mulligan. I was 3 on a fast-attack submarine many years ago as a nuke. It 4 was an experimental sub anyways. I worked at Vermont 5 Yankee for a number of years. I was, for a number of 6 years, I was a reactor operator at the plant. And now 7 I'm, more or less, a general whistleblower. Thank you. 8 MR. CHAWLA: It is not required for members 9 of the public to introduce themselves on the call. 10 However, if there are any members of the public on the 11 phone that wish to do so at this time, please state your 12 name for the record. Any members of the public? 13 (No response.) 14 MR. CHAWLA: Okay. Hearing none, I would 15 like to emphasize that we each need to speak clearly and 16 loudly to make sure that the court reporter can 17 accurately transcribe this meeting. If you do have 18 something that you would like to say, please first state 19 your name for the record. 20 All those dialing into the meeting, please 21 remember to mute your phone to minimize any background 22 noise or distraction. If you do not have a mute button, 23 this can be done by pressing the keys *6. To unmute, 24 press *6 keys again. Thank you. 25 9 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 At this time, I will turn it over to the PRB 1 Chairman, Louise Lund. 2 CHAIR LUND: Good morning. Welcome to 3 this meeting regarding the 2.206 petition submitted by 4 Mr. Mulligan. I'd like to first share some background 5 on our process. 6 Section 2.206 of Title 10 of the Code of 7 Federal Regulations describes the petition process, the 8 primary mechanism for the public to request enforcement 9 action by the NRC in a public process. 10 This process permits anyone to petition NRC 11 to take enforcement-type action related to NRC 12 licensees or licensed activities. Depending on the 13 results of its evaluation, NRC could modify, suspend, 14 or revoke an NRC-issued license or take any other 15 appropriate enforcement action to resolve the problem. 16 The NRC staff's guidance for the disposition of 2.206 17 petition requests is in Management Directive 8.11, 18 which is publicly available. 19 The purpose of today's meeting is to give 20 the petitioner, Mr. Mulligan, an opportunity to provide 21 any additional explanation or support for the petition 22 before the Petition Review Board's initial 23 consideration and recommendation. This meeting is not 24 a hearing, nor is it an opportunity for the petitioner 25 10 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 to question or examine the PRB on the merits or the 1 issues presented in the petition request. No decisions 2 regarding the merits of this petition will be made at 3 this meeting. 4 Following this meeting, the Petition 5 Review Board will conduct its internal deliberations. 6 The outcome of this internal meeting will be discussed 7 with the petitioner. 8 The Petition Review Board typically 9 consists of a chairman, usually a manager at the Senior 10 Executive Service level at the NRC. It has a petition 11 manager and a PRB coordinator. Other members of the 12 Board are determined by the NRC staff based on the 13 content of the information in the petition request. 14 The members have already introduced themselves. 15 As described in our process, the NRC staff 16 may ask clarifying questions in order to better 17 understand the petitioner's presentation and to reach 18 a reasoned decision whether to accept or reject the 19 petitioner's request for review under the 2.206 20 process. 21 I would like to summarize the scope of the 22 petition under consideration and the NRC activities to 23 date. On March 5th, 2014, you submitted to the NRC a 24 petition under 2.206 regarding Palisades Nuclear Plant 25 11 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 in which you requested a number of actions. The major 1 ones concern operating with a broken impeller and flawed 2 control rod drive mechanism housing. 3 Allow me to discuss the NRC's activities to 4 date. On March 14th, 2014, the PRB reviewed your 5 request for immediate action to prevent Palisades 6 restart and determined that there were no 7 safety-significant concerns to prevent the plant from 8 restarting as scheduled. The NRC has reviewed the 9 licensee's evaluation of the impeller piece fragment 10 within the reactor vessel and concluded that it does not 11 pose a threat to the reactor and other plant components. 12 Additionally, the licensee replaced all of the 45 13 control rod drive mechanism housings prior to plant 14 startup. 15 Based on the review of the licensee's 16 evaluation related to the stuck impeller piece and 17 replacement of all CRDM housings during the refueling 18 outage, there were no immediate safety-significant 19 concerns to prevent the plant from restarting as 20 scheduled. Your request for the immediate action of 21 shutdown of Palisades and other Entergy plants did not 22 have adequate bases. Therefore, your request to 23 prevent Palisades from restarting was denied. 24 You were informed on March 19th, 2014, of 25 12 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 the PRB's decision to deny your request for immediate 1 action. On March 24, 2014, the petition manager 2 contacted you to discuss the 10 CFR 2.206 process and 3 to offer you an opportunity to address the PRB. You 4 requested to address the PRB by phone prior to its 5 internal meeting to make the initial recommendation to 6 accept or reject the petition for review. 7 As a reminder for the phone participants, 8 please identify yourself if you make any remarks, as 9 this will help us in the preparation of the meeting 10 transcript that will be made publicly available. Thank 11 you. 12 Mr. Mulligan, I'll turn it over to you to 13 allow you the opportunity to provide any information you 14 believe the PRB should consider as part of this 15 petition. 16 MR. MULLIGAN: Good morning. Good job on 17 the CRDMs, although there was reports in the media that, 18 you know, you were going to replace a proportion of them, 19 and then you came back and replaced a larger proportion 20 of them, and then you came back and said you replaced 21 them all. So that is a, that is a good job you did. 22 You know, as far as, I guess, I mean, 23 everything associated with these broken impellers tells 24 us that Palisades is confused. They don't understand 25 13 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 the limitations of their equipment, and they don't 1 understand how serious an issue is as far as these broken 2 impellers are. 3 And there's a lot of them. Here's a short 4 list. In 1983, they had issues with impellers, PCP 5 impellers. 1984, they had severe damage, and I contend 6 it's the same issue that caused the 2011 incident. 7 2001, there's a segment of cracked impellers that were 8 found. 2007, I originally put down 2012, but that's 9 inaccurate because you never, they never found the 10 impeller in 2012. 11 And, you know, there's reports out in the 12 media that they replaced an impeller, and I'm not sure 13 what the nature of, what they found to replace that 14 impeller in this recent outage and stuff like that. And 15 so, you know, that big question I'd like answered 16 eventually. 17 And so beyond this whole thing is, you know, 18 well, how does the NRC maintain credibility with the 19 public? And out of TMI, we discovered that there was 20 a lot of miscommunication and withholding information 21 and all sorts of rationalizations about withholding 22 information and picking and choosing the information 23 you release and stuff like that. And then once -- it 24 didn't happen. 25 14 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 And everybody was disillusioned with the 1 agency and stuff. They had reorganization. And out of 2 it came, essentially, this system that these utilities 3 are required to disclose information, an assortment of 4 information, partially to appease and make the public 5 feel better and, more importantly, to notify, to put 6 their problems on a piece of paper so all of the 7 utilities could take a look at it and see if they have 8 the same problems so, you know, there wouldn't be 9 repeated problems and that type of stuff. 10 And out of this issue with Palisades, it's 11 just amazing what they're allowed to not report about. 12 Like I said, all these incidences with the broken 13 impellers would require the LER. You know, Palisades 14 could have, there's nothing prohibiting them from 15 throwing in an LER and stuff like that. You know, they 16 could have voluntarily submitted a bunch of these LERs 17 to document the issues and to maintain credibility with 18 the public and NRC itself and to keep track of these 19 problems. 20 You know, it's interesting. The 21 Information Notice 1985 is curious. There's different 22 vibration levels, you know. In the 1985 one, the pump 23 vibration level, according to the IN, reached the danger 24 level of 10 mils. In 2012, inspection report 2012, on 25 15 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 October 11th, the operators noted a steep change of 1 approximately 1 mil on the pump monitor. Vibration 2 values were trending around 10.5 mils prior to the 3 perturbation, remaining steady state for around 25 4 hours4.62963e-5 days <br />0.00111 hours <br />6.613757e-6 weeks <br />1.522e-6 months <br /> and then spiked up to 22 mils for less than three 5 seconds. So, you know, I don't know why is it 10 mils 6 in the danger level and, you know, up to 25 mils during 7 this recent event and stuff? 8 It was interesting. Donald Rumsfeld 9 talked a little bit about unknowns, unknown unknowns, 10 and that was essentially about him trying to obscure the 11 fact that they didn't have any information about weapons 12 of mass destruction in Iraq. You know ..And The New 13 York Times, by the way, has a whole, the whole history 14 on Donald Rumsfeld and his unknown unknowns. They have 15 three articles. It's pretty interesting, you know, the 16 history. I like the history of everything, actually. 17 So the issue in 2001 was, and I guess up to 18 the present time, fatigue-related effects from the 19 operation of the pump in a condition beyond the maximum 20 flow rate and below the minimum net positive suction 21 head recommendations described at UFSAR and other 22 design documentation. 23 So, I mean, how is a plant allowed to run 24 outside of its designs? I mean, you guys, there's tons 25 16 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 of you guys in the NRC and they got tons of people, 1 licensed people and highly-skilled people and stuff 2 like that. How does a plant, how is a plant allowed to 3 run outside of its designs for so many years with so much 4 damage and stuff? How come they didn't immediately see 5 what was going on here and make it so that they wouldn't 6 have anymore problems with their PCP pump impellers and 7 stuff? I mean, that's basic competence. And if you 8 can't, you know, if you can't keep up with your 9 information and your reports and stuff aren't accurate, 10 and then you run outside your plant designs, I mean, 11 you're asking for a lot of problems down the road with 12 the competence of site employees and the NRC itself that 13 they can't figure out a way to cause a plant to fix their 14 PCPs early and not consume so much agency resources and 15 their own internal resources, you know, researching 16 these issues over and over again. 17 I had a list of all the different -- sorry. 18 They had, between Information Notice 85-03 -- oh, here 19 it is -- 85-03 and its supplement and, you know, all the 20 issues associated with these impellers and there were 21 so many different things that, you know, first they 22 talked about cap screws and the cap screws weren't 23 torqued appropriately by the site. And then there's 24 the cap screws, the threads are defective. And then the 25 17 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 cap screws were torqued appropriately by the site, but 1 it was, they weren't torqued right when they put the pump 2 together back at the -- then they talk about, in >83, 3 there's impeller damage of some sort that's so-called 4 not related. 5 So it's, you know, fatigue brought on by 6 preload at the bolts. That's the supplement. And by 7 the way, the site had not followed assembling that pump 8 back up. 9 And so then First Energy, you ain't got a 10 -- their docket, you know, there was a combination of 11 residents, residential stresses caused by improper heat 12 treatment, poor fabrication practices, stress 13 associated with starting and stopping the pumps and 14 stuff. And so we get through this thing, and everybody 15 has got, you know, there's so many rationalizations or 16 there's so many different things wrong with this pump, 17 and how can you trust, how can you trust these guys to 18 throw out an accurate report with this kind of record 19 with these impellers and stuff? 20 And so then it comes out in 2012 that it's, 21 they've missed operating the pump. How does that 22 happen? How do you prevent a plant from operating 23 outside of its USFAR? How do you change the behavior 24 of that? How do you make sure all the other plants, you 25 18 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 know, take that seriously? If they can't keep track of 1 the limitations and the requirements of their safety 2 equipment, that is -- we can't identify the exact 3 accident that's going to happen in the future, but 4 there's going to be a bad one and a lot of people aren't 5 going to know what's going on and there's going to be 6 a lot of confusion. 7 And I've seen that where, you know, 8 something happens and people are caught with their pants 9 down and they don't know what's going on and their 10 panicking and stuff like that. I mean, that's not going 11 to be good if this kind of thing happens with an example 12 of a plant being operated with such a record. 13 The latest thing that I discovered is 14 something about an appendix of a report, there was 15 something about they put in a wrong sized impeller. 16 There's a, there's an operability and a functionality 17 thing. It sounds like they actually put a wrong sized 18 impeller inside there, and I don't know the nature of, 19 you know, I'm not sure if they purchased impellers and 20 they were wrong size and they kept them out of the plant 21 or -- it sounds like to me that they actually put them 22 in the plant. You know, it talks about, in 2012, at the 23 end of 2012, this report came out. Evidently, the NRC 24 looked at it and stuff. But, you know, I can't see it. 25 19 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 I don't know what it's about. 1 And so, you know, like I said to the 2 inspectors yesterday, the inspectors and the branch 3 chief or whatever, you know, they were really nice 4 people and stuff. They didn't talk about, you know, we 5 went over what was the factors involved with the pumps 6 having issues and stuff like that. And the inspectors 7 didn't talk about the wrong sized pump impellers in the 8 PCP pump. 9 And so, you know, from outside, it's hard 10 to get, you know -- reading a lot of this stuff, and it's 11 helter skelter, a lot of this information. And, you 12 know, it's just not right. It should be a complete 13 documentation. And safety, you know, is scrutinized 14 ability. It's the ability of outsiders, the ability of 15 you know that people are looking over your shoulders and 16 whether we catch you or just the idea that somebody might 17 catch you is an enormous safety barrier for people, you 18 know, doing the right thing. 19 Here's the 2012 003 August 8th and response 20 to the discovery of the two pieces that resembled the 21 PCP impeller. You know, when you get into this thing 22 and resembled and apparent impeller thing, how come 23 people can't -- what is going on here with people saying, 24 oh, it could be a possibility of an impeller or it might 25 20 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 be an impeller. Well, it's either an impeller or it's 1 not. It doesn't seem to be that hard of an issue to 2 identify. I mean, that's the first responsibility of 3 a licensee to know if it's an impeller or not an 4 impeller, to know that, you know, resembled a PCP 5 impeller, you know. 6 So why do people do that, put these weasley 7 words in here? Well, you know, if something happens and 8 that impeller is loose and we get into big problems, you 9 know, somebody can't go back and look and say we said 10 it was an -- plausible deniability. It resembled. We 11 didn't really know if it was a PCP impeller or what have 12 you. 13 So during the reactor vessel inspections of 14 2007, the licensee conducted an apparent root cause 15 analysis. The conclusion was that the pieces were most 16 likely from the DPCP. Well, what's going on? Most 17 likely from the DPCP? I mean, you could only run these 18 things knowing the facts of the condition and the 19 situations and what are the limitations of your 20 equipment. So most likely from the DPCP? Why haven't 21 they gotten it down to it's either an impeller or it's 22 not an impeller? We will be damn certain we know what 23 pump that the impeller, the piece that broke away from 24 the impeller and stuff. 25 21 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Additionally, the analysis explored the 1 history of the Palisades PCP impeller conditions, which 2 included repeated occurrences of cracking which have 3 been identified and instances of heavy re-circulation 4 damage. Okay. So you're playing big words with me. 5 So what does heavy circulation damage mean? Is that a 6 safe -- is a heavy re-circulation damage, is that 7 unsafe? 8 And then it goes on and says, well, which 9 rendered the impeller unfit for continued use. Is it 10 safe? Is it an unfit impeller for continued use, is 11 that a safe impeller? Is that a safe condition when 12 there's something going on there that they don't 13 understand is causing all these impellers to break off 14 and they lose pieces in there? 15 This is really interesting. When the DPCP 16 was later inspected after removal during the 2009 17 refueling outage, it did not have any pieces of impeller 18 missing. Inspections of the PCP were recommended in 19 the apparent cause and had been planned to be executed 20 and the DPCP was not the source of the 2007 pieces, was 21 canceled. The cancellation was based, in part, on 22 thoughts that the piece may have originated elsewhere. 23 So here you go. You know, it resembled a 24 PC, most likely was from the DPCP. It might have been 25 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 an impeller. It could have been an impeller and stuff. 1 And it sets you up where these guys can say, oh, well, 2 we thought that it came from the DPCP, but we popped it 3 open and there was no damage in there, so it had to be 4 from the steam generators or wherever the hell it comes 5 from and stuff like that. 6 And so, you know, how come that engineering 7 is, you know, you know what's going on. You know the 8 conditions of your equipment. You know these defective 9 parts and these parts that are floating around in the 10 system, you know what they are. You get with facts and 11 evidence. 12 You know, somebody with a Ph.D., I mean, I 13 have to have triplicate evidence or proof of an 14 assertion. A Ph.D. can get there and, you know, they 15 can guess on a lot of these things. And the engineers. 16 You know, most of this is not about evidence and proof, 17 it's all about guesswork, and it irks me. 18 So a piece, I mean, they didn't hunt down 19 and figure out what these pieces were in 2009. Then 20 that leads up to the inspection of 2012, 03. So that 21 was in August 2012. The event happened seven months 22 before that, October 11th, 2011. It was safe to operate 23 until the April 12th, 2012 outage and stuff. 24 So here today we're sitting in not this 25 23 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 outage but the outage before it. They knew that it was 1 a piece of an impeller. I mean, everybody admits that 2 it was the October 11th event of 2011, that's the 3 impeller that's in the core right now and stuff. 4 You know, the idea that -- and that prior 5 outage, you know, after they were given such leeway by 6 the NRC and stuff like that, I don't think they should 7 have been operated. Like I said, you know, the impeller 8 was unfit for continued use, and they talk about heavy 9 re-circulation damage and stuff like that. So what is 10 safe or what is unsafe? You know, everybody bandies 11 around about being safe and stuff like that, and, you 12 know, there's very little information on what is safe. 13 There's a lot of -- outside people can 14 understand, I'm telling you. You've got a reactor 15 coolant pump and it's flinging impellers, that's 16 unsafe. They don't have to go through a whole 17 calculation and stuff like that. They know that's not 18 right, and it stinks to high heaven that a plant like 19 that would be allowed to operate in such an unfit 20 condition, in such a discombobulated, confused 21 condition and stuff. 22 And so, like I was saying, and, again, so 23 here we sit in 2014. We know that an impeller got stuck 24 between the vessel and the flow skirt. That comes from 25 24 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 2011 and stuff. So, you know, what I'm trying to get 1 at, from that 2012 inspection report, I mean, everybody 2 knows that there's an attitude of, you know, broken 3 impellers and, wink-wink, we're not going to -- you 4 know, they're apparent impellers or they're almost 5 impellers or, you know, they might be impellers, but we 6 really haven't looked close enough to be positive that 7 they are impellers and stuff like that. 8 So they have a long history of having 9 impellers, knowing we have impeller damage and not 10 saying, not stopping and saying we're going to, number 11 one, before we start up, we're going to know what pump 12 that came from, we will never allow a PCP pump to 13 operate, knowingly operate with any cracks of any sort 14 or any degradation and stuff like that, and we're going 15 to hunt down that impeller and yank it out of the core 16 and stuff like that. 17 So, I mean, you know, that impeller that's 18 sitting next to the core or the vessel or the core skirt 19 and stuff like that, there's a long history of Palisades 20 losing impellers and knowingly losing impellers and 21 dancing around with the NRC saying they're, you know, 22 talking language like it resembled a PCP impeller, you 23 know, kind of playing with words, you know, we think it's 24 an impeller, but if we get in trouble we can deny that 25 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 or, especially if we do a search like we did in 2012 and 1 we can't find the impeller, well, maybe there was never 2 an impeller blade that was missing, or, you know, if the 3 NRC doesn't ask us then we won't have to tell them and 4 then we get started back up. 5 Everything about that 2012 inspection 6 report is, it's making that information inscrutable to 7 the public. So make sure that you don't discuss it 8 until not only way after the event, it's only publicly 9 discussed after the next outage and when that plant is 10 back in operation. All the dirty little linen and all 11 that sort of stuff is engineered so it's on the other 12 side of the plant operational threat, and the agency has 13 a habit of doing this all the time, you know, not 14 discussing the dirty deeds until everybody is safe or 15 you're already back up at power and it can't be 16 contested, there's no way it can be contested. It's not 17 fair. It's not allowing the public to see what's going 18 on and giving somebody a shot to ask a question and that 19 type of thing. 20 So we don't know. You know, again, you had 21 a whole bunch of, you had a whole bunch of conditions 22 post that inspection report. And, basically, you 23 talked about the sequencing of the pumps. You know, how 24 do you, how do you know a pump is within its designs and 25 26 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 the plant is running according to, you know, the FSARs 1 or whatever it is and stuff like that? 2 So, you know, you measure its suction 3 pressure, its discharge pressure, you know, you hit the 4 pump curves and all that sort of stuff, and that's how 5 you, you know, see the green or red. It's either 6 possible conditions that pump is going to be operated 7 according to its designs. You have verifiable 8 evidence. So, you know, you guys didn't show us. It 9 was kind of blurry as far as would them fixes really 10 protect the public and protect from any future issues 11 with broken impellers. 12 And we know that, you know, that that 13 inspection notice 85-03 or whatever it is, we know that 14 these things can lead to a severe accident. You could 15 destroy out of your four seals almost immediately, three 16 seals. And you could spew a lot of metal in the coolant 17 and have the potential of, a strong potential of 18 damaging fuel and stuff. You know, so there's a threat 19 to the pressure barrier right there that Palisades is 20 required to not have any, you know, to have their 21 pressure barrier within a certain set of quality type 22 of things and stuff. So, you know, I would think that's 23 a threat to the pressure barrier, you know, if, in the 24 future, there's other issues with the impellers 25 27 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 breaking off and stuff. 1 You know, well, you know, the question of 2 why would these guys not have new impellers on site? 3 What makes guys like this go into this thing of doing 4 weld repairs on reactor coolant pump impellers? And 5 especially you find that these weld repairs are, you 6 know, it's the most threat to throwing blades and stuff 7 like that. I don't understand why the NRC wasn't in 8 there and saying you can't do that welding kind of stuff 9 on these impellers and stuff, you know. You can't have 10 a history of having broken impellers and stuff. 11 Where's the NRC in this, in that thing, you know? 12 So I have questions whether Palisades is 13 competent to operate that plant, and I have issues in 14 this that the NRC is competent in knowing what the 15 conditions of culture is. And you know that there's a 16 lot of confusion going on, and you're not using the right 17 tools in order to straighten these guys out and stuff. 18 You know, Palisades has been in a lot of trouble, you 19 know. Entergy, the recent issues with the stator drop 20 accident. And now it's a red finding and a yellow 21 finding. 22 When that event in 2011 was going on, 23 Palisades was starting up from their yellow finding with 24 their DC, they let their employees perform maintenance 25 28 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 on a DC bus and it almost killed them, killed an employee 1 and stuff. And then you go into Palisades has issues 2 with the security department, their employees not 3 telling the truth. Their security employees across the 4 board for years have had issues with intimidation and 5 being afraid to speak up to their managers and stuff like 6 that. Back with that first incident with security and 7 now there's a new thing going on that we don't understand 8 really what's going on. 9 And so, you know, Entergy, site-wide, had 10 issues with, down south it had an engineer that was 11 raising issues and they tried to intimidate him and 12 stuff. So there was a lot of training about that 13 incident and stuff. They had employees in another 14 plant going on the internet in the control room and 15 stuff. 16 So I'm just saying, you know, all of a 17 sudden, to treat Palisades like they're a victim and, 18 you know, and give them all sorts of more breaks and 19 stuff like that, I just, I think that's heading in the 20 wrong direction and stuff. 21 The message here is that you can play word 22 games and you can call them apparent of almost impeller, 23 broken impeller blades and all that sort of stuff. And 24 every time you get a broken impeller, you won't be forced 25 29 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 to shut down and repair it and, number one, find it and 1 then figure out what the hell is broken or degraded and 2 replace it with a fully-qualified reactor coolant pump 3 and stuff that you won't have problems with for decades 4 and stuff like that. 5 So what you're signaling to Palisades is, 6 oh, you can have as many broken blades as you want and 7 we'll all play around with definitions and the words of 8 apparent impellers being stuck between the skirt and the 9 core and stuff. And, you know, you can keep this 10 behavior going on for infinite. You know, every time 11 a bad, you know, scares the pants out of the staff with 12 vibration problems and throwing blades and stuff like 13 that, you know, oh, don't worry about it, you will never 14 pay the price of a shutdown. As a matter of fact, you 15 don't even have to find out where that blade went. You 16 have repeated incidences of, like, a 2007 one, like the 17 most recent one in, I don't know, last August 2012, I 18 think it's April 2012, where, you know, it's really not 19 that important that you have a big incident where you 20 lose a 5 x 12 inch impeller in there. 21 And it's really not that important that you 22 find that impeller. You can start it back up and two 23 years down the line by mistake you can find it, and then 24 you're heroes. What's up with that? Besides the 25 30 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 point, okay, you guys pick on me because I speculate and 1 I use my imagination. Well, so where are the reports 2 on broken impellers and stuff like that, you know? 3 Where's the evidence that this kind of, this size 4 impeller is not going to lead to a 1984 event and this 5 size impeller break is going to lead to, you know, not 6 being an operational issue? 7 You know, with your recent, trying to yank 8 out that impeller piece this last outage, well, the 9 going theory is the flow, the large amount of flow pushed 10 that impeller against the skirt and the core and that 11 made it so that I guess they used 3,000 pounds to try 12 to yank it up from above and then they used some sort 13 of hammer to see if you could knock it up from below and 14 stuff. And so, you know, see, you know, why did Ph.D.'s 15 get to make guesses on what caused that impeller to be 16 stuck versus where's the evidence, you know -- on the 17 other end, you'd have to say, well, you'd have to have 18 a mockup maybe or something similar, and you'd have to 19 have the same size impeller and stuff. Yes, I know this 20 is costly and ridiculous, but you're not supposed to 21 allow a PCP impeller to break in a nuclear power plant. 22 So what is your proof that the flow actually 23 wedged that impeller in that position? What is the 24 proof of that? Is it all guesses? You know, normally, 25 31 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 you'd kind of make a model, like I say, reenact it, and 1 then the proof is that, well, yes, shit, that thing did 2 get stuck in there with all that flow. And then you go 3 on real evidence and stuff like that and real proof and 4 studies and those kind of peer-approved reports to be 5 presented. And then we'd have some sense of well, you 6 know, this is the truth and a lot of people looked at 7 it from different perspectives. 8 You know, like I say, you know, and even the 9 NRC in this, it might be true, it's the cool down that 10 those parts contract at different rates, and that's what 11 putting the pressure on it. And, again, we don't know. 12 We don't know what kind of pressure is on that part right 13 now. We know what it is when the vessel is cooled down. 14 We don't know what it is when it's heated up. There's 15 no proof that, you know, that ten pounds won't move that 16 piece of impeller in the core today and stuff. 17 And so, you know, I don't know. I just see 18 a pattern of behavior of the issues of really not knowing 19 what gets broken in that plant. Yes, symptoms of a 20 coolant pump being thrown off impellers and nobody goes 21 searching for them blades and stuff. And so, you know, 22 whether we're safe now with that impeller being stuck 23 in the core, I know that there's been a lot of impellers 24 broken and a lot of them have been found at the bottom 25 32 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 of the core. And this is really sloppy, unthoughtful 1 ways in which to operate a nuclear power plant. 2 And when's it going to stop? Like I say, 3 when it's going to, when's Palisades going to realize 4 that they're not allowed to operate with those kind of 5 degraded components in a nuclear power plant. They 6 should, a decade ago, the NRC should have come in there 7 and, you know, if they can't find the discipline in 8 themselves to do the right thing, then the agency is 9 supposed to behave in a way that the utility sees the 10 light and starts behaving the way they're expected to. 11 I don't know what's in other PWRs, what's the -- and 12 this, again, there's a problem there because it's not 13 documented. 14 I suspect there's a lot of plants out there 15 that don't have PCP problems as Palisades, just like 16 there's a lot of plants out there that don't have control 17 rod drive mechanisms, these kinds of repeated problems 18 over decades like Palisades and stuff like that. When 19 is Palisades going to be treated like a regular plant? 20 You know, and then they get all these 21 different kind of, they've got flaws and stuff, and then 22 they're getting all sorts of special permission from the 23 NRC to not go according to ASME. You know, again, you 24 know, it's just -- oh, so here it is. When the fixes 25 33 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 post 2012-003, you had a monitoring plan. A monitoring 1 plan? A monitoring plan? How about making sure that 2 that equipment is of a proper quality that those things 3 never happen again? So where's that? Monitoring 4 plan? It boggles the mind. 5 Change the preferred sequence of starting 6 and stopping pumps during startup and shutdown, 7 corrective action to explore further procedure changes 8 regarding PCP and operations and result in other aspects 9 of other, result in impacts of other aspects of plant 10 operation. 11 CHAIR LUND: Okay, Mr. Mulligan. You have 12 about ten more minutes. This is Louise Lund. 13 MR. MULLIGAN: Oh, thank you, yes. Cyclic 14 pressures and stresses are created under reduced 15 pressure conditions. So I just don't get how the NRC 16 allows the plant to operate like that without -- I mean, 17 has PCP pumps been placed in a condition that they're 18 in accordance to FSAR and other pump design documents? 19 I ask the inspectors and the branch chief yesterday, and 20 I got a kind of fuzzy answer. I didn't, I didn't -- and 21 another thing is that, well, why are they doing that? 22 Okay, that was a nice inspection report in 2012, 003, 23 but, you know, the agency doesn't explain why they were 24 doing that, you know. What were the motivations of 25 34 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 operating outside the FSAR and the other -- for so long, 1 you know? Like I talked about, you know, how long is 2 the exposure rate? The NRC talks about it being limited 3 to 2007, and I think, like I talked about, I think the 4 1984 one and this most recent one are basically the same 5 incident and the exposure rate. Does the NRC get to 6 say, well, arbitrarily, it's from 2007, you know, back 7 then? 8 How come the NRC didn't, you know, they 9 mentioned a 1984 event back in 2012. How come they 10 didn't explain in that inspection report to the 11 community, you know, they had a pretty terrible accident 12 in 1984. It wasn't just a blade letting loose. They 13 had serious damage to a pump. Why didn't they kind of 14 inform us of that more closely on that 1984 event and 15 stuff? 16 I mean, that's what I'm saying. Does the 17 NRC get to pick and choose? You know, they got a list 18 of ten things that causes an event, and they can pick 19 the top five things to disclose to the public, the ones 20 that reflect well on Palisades? I mean, that's what it, 21 that's the issue. If you don't got your documents 22 straight and you don't report to us in a 23 straightforward, honest manner, instead of playing 24 these word games, how can you expect public confidence 25 35 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 and stuff? 1 And, you know, a plant like Palisades, say 2 there's another plant that acts in the same way. Do you 3 think that if they get into a big problem, if they get 4 into a big accident, and all of a sudden you have to 5 disclose all this sort of stuff, do you think it's going 6 to end well? You think it's going to reflect well on 7 the agency and the utility and all that sort of stuff? 8 Do you think, with all this kind of confusion, 9 engineering confusion running rampant, it's going to 10 end in a good way? 11 You're going to have an accident, and then 12 you're going to have an accident on top of it because 13 you didn't, you weren't communicating for decades in an 14 appropriate manner. And you didn't have that bank 15 buildup of honesty in the public there. Well, I know 16 the NRC, and I know these guys, they're particular as 17 hell and they make everybody document everything. You 18 know, out of this thing here, you can make the case that 19 is the exact opposite. 20 These guys, I don't know what kind of rules 21 they follow, but it ends up that an event like these 22 pumps are never documented, are arbitrarily put in an 23 inspection report because, you know, not because the 24 inspector sat there and says, boy, that's an interesting 25 36 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 thing, you know. I looked at the suction pressures and 1 the discharge pressures and the pump curves, kind of we 2 expect that at the NRC. You know, it doesn't fit. And 3 so they're not operating in accordance to the FSAR and 4 the procedures. And you throw up an inspection report 5 before the damage was shown. That's what you'd expect 6 out of the agency, you know, not have to have triplicate 7 proof that damage has occurred but to kind of, oh, well, 8 these guys aren't operating in accordance to their FSARs 9 and we're going to pick up that problem before the damage 10 shows and stuff like that. 11 Why can't the agency be proactive and ask 12 difficult questions, instead of waiting for, you know, 13 the evidence of multiple examples of broken impeller 14 blades to show up? And then they kind of get half honest 15 and stuff. 16 And so, I mean, I've had issues. As an 17 example, with Pilgrim relief valves that Palisades 18 bought -- not Palisades. Pilgrim bought four brand new 19 relief valves, stuck them in there, and then for the next 20 operating cycle they had repeated power ups and power 21 downs because those guys were leaking. And, 22 essentially, the NRC and Pilgrim, you know, wink, wink, 23 wink, we don't have to report anymore. The crap out of 24 TMI, that doesn't matter anymore. We've got rules in 25 37 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 here that says that we don't have to make an LER report 1 that is accurate, that is detailed and stuff. And if 2 we write it up, it's on the other side of the operability 3 issues or the threat of a plant being shut down. The 4 agency will never give outsiders the opportunity of 5 having information available that should prove that 6 that plant is unfit to be operating. 7 The bad stuff only comes out after the 8 operability issues are over with and stuff. So there. 9 Vermont Yankee had the same related issues with their 10 SRV valves and stuff like that. And we've had issues 11 in trying to follow it in the inspection reports and in 12 the LERs, and it's really poor reporting. 13 You know, I know what's going on here. 14 They're saying these utilities and you guys are saying, 15 oh, well, we've put all this information in our 16 corrective actions and all these different kind of 17 internal reports. See, you shifted from the lessons of 18 TMI, of being honest, building up that bank of 19 credibility, and getting these documents -- Jesus, you 20 know, that was a miracle when they came out with LERs 21 and post TMI and stuff like that. 22 And, you know, it was quite detailed, a lot 23 of those reports, which they aren't. Case after case 24 after case where, you know, the agency is just meeting 25 38 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 its minimum requirements to document issues at these 1 plants. They don't have no sense of, as far as I'm 2 concerned, professionalism or what really the public 3 wants and stuff like that. So they're reporting this 4 crap at a minimum level or less, and we don't have any 5 really ways to, you know, present our side of the story 6 and stuff like that and see about these inspection 7 reports. You know, there's no open way to criticize, 8 oh, this is a skimpy inspection. 9 I hear this next one is going to be quite 10 thorough in justifying why that blade is stuck in the 11 core and stuff like that. But -- all right. 12 CHAIR LUND: Mr. Mulligan, let me go ahead 13 and move to the question period. So at this time, does 14 the staff here at Headquarters have any questions for 15 Mr. Mulligan? 16 (No response.) 17 CHAIR LUND: Okay. And what about the 18 region? 19 (No response.) 20 CHAIR LUND: Does the licensee have any 21 questions? 22 MS. DOTSON: We have no questions. 23 CHAIR LUND: Okay, thank you. And are 24 there any members of the public on the phone, besides 25 39 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Mr. Mulligan? 1 (No response.) 2 CHAIR LUND: Okay. Before I conclude the 3 meeting, members of the public may provide comments 4 regarding the petition, ask questions about the 2.206 5 process. However, as stated in the opening, the 6 purpose of this meeting is not to provide an opportunity 7 for the petitioner or the public to question or examine 8 the PRB regarding the merits of the petition request. 9 So, again, is there anybody from the member 10 of the public who would like to ask a question? 11 (No response.) 12 CHAIR LUND: Okay. So in closing, Mr. 13 Mulligan, thank you for taking time to provide the NRC 14 staff with clarifying information on the petition you 15 have submitted. Before we close, does the court 16 reporter need any additional information for the 17 meeting transcript? 18 COURT REPORTER: I'm okay for now. Thank 19 you. 20 MR. MULLIGAN: And I appreciate this 21 opportunity, and I appreciate the branch chief and the 22 two inspectors, I was talking with them yesterday, I 23 appreciate and thank the agency very much. 24 CHAIR LUND: Okay. Thank you for that 25 40 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 feedback, Mr. Mulligan. And the court reporter, did 1 you need anything else? 2 COURT REPORTER: No, thanks. 3 CHAIR LUND: Okay. With that, the meeting 4 is concluded, and we will be terminating the phone 5 connection. Thank you. 6 (Whereupon, the above-referenced matter 7 was concluded at 12:02 p.m.) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20