ML11167A114

Transcript of 10 CFR 2.206 Petition Review Board Conference Call Re GE Mark 1 Bwrs, June 08, 2011, Pages 1-74

ML11167A114
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Site:	Millstone, Hatch, Monticello, Dresden, Peach Bottom, Browns Ferry, Nine Mile Point, Fermi, Oyster Creek, Hope Creek, Cooper, Pilgrim, Brunswick, Vermont Yankee, Duane Arnold, Quad Cities, FitzPatrick
Issue date:	06/08/2011
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Download: ML11167A114 (75)

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Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

Title:

10 CFR 2.206 Petition RE GE Mark 1 BWRS Docket Number: (n/a)

Location: (telephone conference)

Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2011 Work Order No.: NRC-920 Pages 1-74 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.

Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 + + + + +

4 10 CFR 2.206 PETITION REVIEW BOARD (PRB) 5 CONFERENCE CALL 6 RE 7 GE MARK I BWRS 8 + + + + +

9 WEDNESDAY 10 JUNE 8, 2011 11 + + + + +

12 13 The conference call was held, Robert Nelson, 14 Chairperson of the Petition Review Board, presiding.

15 16 PETITIONER: PAUL GUNTER 17 KEVIN KAMPS 18 CO-PETITIONERS: MARY LAMPERT 19 RAYMOND SHADIS 20 PATRICIA BIRNIE 21 DAVE KRAFT 22 PETITION REVIEW BOARD MEMBERS 23 ROBERT NELSON 24 SIVA LINGAM 25 TANYA MENSAH NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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2 1

2 NRC HEADQUARTERS STAFF 3 MICHAEL CLARK 4 SAM MIRANDA 5 EDWARD SMITH 6 KAMAL MANOLY 7 VIJAY GOEL 8 GERRY GULLA 9 LAUREN GIBSON 10 KIMBERLY SEXTON 11 REGION I 12 JIM CLIFFORD 13 REGION II 14 HAROLD CHRISTENSEN 15 REGION III 16 DAVID HILLS 17 VIJAY MEGHANI 18 REGION IV 19 TOM FARNHOLTZ 20 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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3 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 Welcome and Introductions, Siva P. Lingam, 3 Petition Manager 4 4 PRB Chairman's Introduction, Robert Nelson, 5 PRB Chair 12 6 Petitioners' Presentations 7 Beyond Nuclear, Paul Gunter, Petitioner, 22 8 Kevin Kamps, Petitioner 33 9 Pilgrim Watch, Mary Lampert, Co-petitioner 39 10 New England Coalition, Raymond Shadis, 11 Co-petitioner 45 12 GE Stockholders' Alliance, Patricia 13 Birnie, Co-petitioner 52 14 Nuclear Energy Information Service, 15 David Kraft, Co-petitioner 54 16 PRB Chairman's Closing Remarks, Robert Nelson 73 17 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 1:57 p.m.

3 MR. LINGAM: I am Siva Lingam. I am the 4 Petition Manager for this. I would like to thank 5 everyone for attending this meeting. We are here 6 today to allow the Petitioners from Beyond Nuclear, 7 represented by Mr. Paul Gunter and Mr. Kevin Kamps; 8 and Co-petitioners from Pilgrim Watch, represented by 9 Ms. Mary Lampert; New England Coalition represented by 10 Mr. Raymond Shadis; GE Stockholders' Alliance 11 represented by Ms. Patricia Birnie; and Nuclear Energy 12 Information Service, represented by Mr. David Kraft, 13 to address the NRC Petition Review Board, also 14 referred to as the PRB, regarding the 2.206 petition 15 dated April 13, 2011, and the co-petitions dated May 16 14, 2011, May 18, 2011, May 27, 2011, and May 31, 17 2011, respectively. I am the Petition Manager for 18 this petition, and Mr. Robert Nelson is the Petition 19 Review Board Chairman.

20 As part of the PRB's review of the 21 petition, the Petitioner was offered an opportunity to 22 address the PRB, to provide any relevant additional 23 explanation and support for the petition. Mr. Paul 24 Gunter of Beyond Nuclear requested this meeting to 25 address the PRB. In accordance with Management NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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5 1 Directive 8.11, the Petitioner may request that a 2 reasonable number of associates be permitted to assist 3 in addressing the PRB concerning the petition. All of 4 the Co-petitioners were also notified about this 5 meeting. Co-petitioners Ms. Mary Lampert of Pilgrim 6 Watch, Mr. Raymond Shadis of New England Coalition, 7 Ms. Patricia Birnie of GE Stockholders' Alliance and 8 Mr. Kraft of Nuclear Energy Information Service also 9 requested an opportunity to address the PRB during 10 this meeting. For rest of the Co-petitioners Marvin 11 Lewis, Janet Tauro of New Jersey Environmental 12 Federation, Janet Tauro of Grandmothers, Mothers and 13 More for Energy Safety, Tim Judson of Central New York 14 Citizens Awareness Network, Deb Katz of Citizens 15 Awareness Network, John LaForge of Nukewatch, Louis 16 Zeller of Blue Ridge Environmental Defense League, 17 John Sanbonmatsu from Worcester Polytechnic Institute, 18 Patsy Lowe, Scott Portzline of Three Mile Island Alert 19 security consultant, and Pine duBois of Jones River 20 Watershed Association, we apologize for not able to 21 allow any time to present the PRB because of time 22 constraints, however, we welcome any additional 23 information you can provide in writing for PRB review.

24 For any other Co-petitioners that I missed, they will 25 have the same thing; they can provide additional NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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6 1 information in writing for PRB review.

2 This meeting is scheduled for two hours, 3 from 2:00 PM to 4:00 PM. The meeting is being 4 recorded by the NRC Operations Center and will be 5 transcribed by a court reporter. The transcript will 6 become a supplement to the petition. The transcript 7 will also be made publicly available through the NRC's 8 Agency-wide Documents Access and Management System, 9 also called as ADAMS.

10 For those at the NRC headquarters, we have 11 public meeting feedback forms that you are welcome to 12 fill out. These forms are forwarded to our internal 13 communications specialists. You may either leave them 14 here following the meeting or mail them back. They 15 are already post-paid. If you are participating by 16 phone and would like to leave email feedback on this 17 public meeting, please forward your comments to me by 18 email siva.lingam@nrc.gov.

19 I'd like to open this meeting with 20 introductions of the meeting participants. I ask that 21 all of the participants clearly state for the record 22 your name, your position or occupation, and your 23 organization. For those here in the room, please 24 speak up or approach the microphone so the persons on 25 the phone can hear clearly and so that the court NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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7 1 reporter can accurately record your name. I will 2 start with myself and the other NRC participants here 3 in the room.

4 I am Siva Lingam, Petition Manager.

5 CHAIRMAN NELSON: My name is Robert 6 Nelson. I am the chairman of Petition Review Board.

7 I'm Deputy Director of the Division of Policy and 8 Rulemaking at the NRC.

9 MS. MENSAH: Tanya Mensah, I'm Petition 10 Review Board Review Coordinator. I'm at NRR, Division 11 of Policy and Rulemaking.

12 MR. MIRANDA: Samuel Miranda, Technical 13 Reviewer in the Reactor Systems Branch, office of 14 Nuclear Reactor Regulation.

15 MR. MANOLY: I'm Kamal Manoly, Senior 16 Technical Advisor, Division of Engineering, Office of 17 Nuclear Reactor Regulation.

18 MR. GOEL: Vijay Goel. Office of Nuclear 19 Reactor Regulation's Electrical Engineering Branch.

20 MR. SMITH: My name is Ed Smith. I'm at 21 NRR, Safety Systems, Balance of Plant and I'm a 22 Technical Reviewer.

23 MR. LINGAM: Are there any NRC 24 participants from Headquarters on the phone?

25 (No response.)

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8 1 Are there any NRC participants from the 2 Regional Offices on the phone? Region I?

3 (No response.)

4 Any participants from Region II on the 5 phone?

6 MR. CHRISTENSEN: In Region II you have 7 Chris Christensen, NRC Region II, Atlanta. I'm the 8 Deputy Director of the Division of Reactor Safety.

9 MR. LINGAM: Region III, please?

10 MR. HILLS: David Hills, Engineering 11 Branch Chief, NRC Region III.

12 MR. MEGHANI: And this is Vijay Meghani, 13 Division of Reactor Safety, Branch 1.

14 MR. LINGAM: Region IV, please.

15 (No response.)

16 Are there any representatives from the 17 licensees on the phone?

18 MR. BEAUMONT: This is Mark Beaumont, 19 Director of Nuclear Regulatory Programs for the ERS 20 Corporation.

21 MR. HAMRICK: Stephen Hamrick, counsel for 22 NextEra Energy Duane Arnold.

23 MR. DEVINCENTIS: Jim Devincentis, Entergy 24 Nuclear Operations.

25 MR. LINGAM: Anybody else?

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9 1 (Simultaneous speaking.)

2 MS. BELL: Florence Bell, Regulatory Staff 3 in South Carolina.

4 MR. SNYDER: Kirk Snyder, Detroit Edison.

5 MS. McFARLAND: Lisa McFarland, NPPD.

6 (Simultaneous speaking.)

7 MR. EDDY: Paul Eddy, New York Public 8 Service Commission.

9 MR. LINGAM: Anybody else?

10 MS. BELLIN: This is Carol Bellin. I'm a 11 member of the public calling from Montana.

12 MR. ZACHS: Vaughn Zachs, State of New 13 Jersey, Bureau of Nuclear Engineering, Department of 14 Environmental Protection.

15 MR. BERGERON: Ken Bergeron calling from 16 New Mexico. I'm a private citizen as well.

17 MR. PORTZLINE: I'm Scott Portzline from 18 Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Three Mile Island Alert.

19 MR. CLEMENTS: This is Tom Clements with 20 the environmental organization Friends of the Earth in 21 Columbia, South Carolina.

22 MS. MARSH: This is Janet Marsh. I'm here 23 with Lou Zeller, Blue Ridge Environmental Defense 24 League.

25 MS. GOTSCH: Paula Gotsch of the Oyster NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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10 1 Creek Area GRAMMES.

2 MR. CRUM: Jeff Crum, Grandmothers, 3 Mothers and More for Energy Safety 4 MR. LINGAM: If you're a Co-petitioner, 5 please state so.

6 MR. RIEDER: Jonathan Rieder, Wells Fargo 7 Securities.

8 MR. EPSTEIN: Eric Epstein, Three Mile 9 Island Alert, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

10 MR. LINGAM: Anybody else? Mr. Gunter and 11 Mr. Kamps, would you please introduce yourself for the 12 record?

13 MR. GUNTER: My name is Paul Gunter. I'm 14 Director of the Reactor Oversight Project for Beyond 15 Nuclear.

16 MR. KAMPS: My name is Kevin Kamps, 17 Radioactive Waste Specialist at Beyond Nuclear. I 18 also serve on the Board of Directors of Don't Waste 19 Michigan and the Nuclear-Free Green Energy Task Force 20 of Great Lakes United.

21 MR. LINGAM: Ms. Lampert --

22 OPERATOR: This is Headquarters Operations 23 Officer, for the NRC folks, could we please delay 24 start of the 2.206 petition call in that we have an 25 excessive number of callers. We're trying to find NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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11 1 additional lines to accommodate them.

2 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went 3 off the record at 2:08 p.m. and resumed at 2:37 p.m.)

4 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Okay, this is Mr.

5 Nelson, the chair of the Board. We're going to 6 recommence from where we left off and I'm going to 7 turn it back over to Mr. Lingam.

8 MR. LINGAM: At this point, we're delayed 9 due to the number of callers. I just want to make 10 sure the introductions are limited to Co-petitioners 11 that are given time to speak, to assure we've provided 12 Petitioners the allotted time.

13 Ms. Lampert, as a Co-petitioner, will you 14 please introduce yourself for the record?

15 MS. LAMPERT: Yes, Mary Lampert, L-A-M-P-16 E-R-T. Pilgrim Watch.

17 MR. LINGAM: Mr. Shadis, as a Co-18 petitioner, would you please introduce yourself for 19 the record?

20 MR. SHADIS: Thank you, sir. Raymond 21 Shadis for New England Coalition. My last name is 22 spelled S-H-A-D-I-S.

23 MR. LINGAM: Ms. Birnie, as a 24 Co-petitioner, would you please introduce yourself for 25 the record?

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12 1 MS. BIRNIE: Patricia Birnie, B-I-R-N-I-E, 2 GE Stockholders' Alliance.

3 MR. LINGAM: Mr. Kraft, as Co-petitioner, 4 would you please introduce yourself for the record?

5 MR. KRAFT: This is Dave Kraft, spelled K-6 R-A-F-T. I'm Director of Nuclear Energy Information 7 Service in Chicago, Illinois.

8 MR. LINGAM: We are sorry we cannot give 9 opportunity for the rest of the Co-petitioners to 10 introduce themselves because of the time limit. So I 11 would like to emphasize that we need to speak clearly 12 and loudly to make sure that the court reporter can 13 accurately transcribe this meeting. If you do have 14 something that you would like to say, please first 15 state your name for the record.

16 For those dialing into the meeting, please 17 remember to mute your phones to minimize any 18 background noise or distractions. If you do not have 19 a "mute" button, this can be done by pressing the keys 20 *6. To unmute, press the *6 keys again. Thank you.

21 At this time, I'll turn it over to the PRB 22 Chairman, Robert Nelson.

23 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Good afternoon. My name 24 is Robert Nelson. As Siva mentioned, I am the chair 25 of the Board. Welcome to this meeting regarding the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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13 1 2.206 petitions submitted by Mr. Gunter and Mr. Kamps 2 of Beyond Nuclear, Ms. Lampert of Pilgrim Watch, Mr.

3 Shadis of New England Coalition, Ms. Patricia Birnie 4 of GE Stockholders' Alliance, Mr. Marvin Lewis, and 5 Mr. David Kraft of Nuclear Energy Information Service.

6 I'd like to first share some background on 7 our process: Section 2.206 of Title 10 of the Code of 8 Federal Regulations describes the petition process, 9 the primary mechanism for the public to request 10 enforcement action by the NRC in a public process.

11 This process permits anyone to petition the NRC to 12 take enforcement-type action related to NRC licensees 13 or licensed activities. Depending on the results of 14 its evaluation, NRC could modify, suspend or revoke an 15 NRC-issued license or take any other appropriate 16 enforcement action to resolve a problem. The NRC 17 staff's guidance for the disposition of 2.206 petition 18 requests is in Management Directive 8.11, which is 19 publicly available.

20 The purpose of today's meeting is to give 21 the Petitioners an opportunity to provide any 22 additional explanation or support for the petition 23 before the Petition Review Board's initial 24 consideration and recommendation.

25 I'd like to make some points regarding NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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14 1 this meeting. This meeting is not a hearing, nor is 2 it an opportunity for the Petitioner to question or 3 examine the PRB on the merits or the issues presented 4 in the petition request.

5 The Board will make no decisions regarding 6 the merits of this petition at this meeting.

7 Following this meeting, the Petition 8 Review Board will conduct its internal deliberations.

9 The outcome of this internal meeting will be 10 discussed with the Petitioners.

11 The Petition Review Board typically 12 consists of a Chairman, usually a manager at the 13 Senior Executive Service level at the NRC. The 14 Petition Manager is me, Bob Nelson. It has a Petition 15 Manager, Siva Lingam and a PRB Coordinator. Other 16 members of the Board are determined by the NRC staff 17 based on the content of the information in the 18 petition request.

19 At this time, I would introduce the 20 remaining members of the Board. As I mentioned, I'm 21 Robert Nelson, the Petition Review Board Chairman.

22 Siva Lingam is the Petition Manager. Tanya Mensah is 23 the office's PRB Coordinator. Our technical staff 24 includes:

25 Samuel Miranda from the Office of Nuclear Reactor NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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15 1 Regulation's Reactor Systems Branch. Edward Smith 2 from the Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation's 3 Balance-of-Plant Branch. Kamal Manoly, Senior 4 Technical Adviser from the Office of Nuclear Reactor 5 Regulation's Division of Engineering. Vijay Goel from 6 the Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation's Electrical 7 Engineering Branch. Gerry Gulla from the Office of 8 Enforcement. Lauren Gibson from the Division of 9 Operator Reactor Licensing Communications Team.

10 Jim Clifford from the NRC Region I Office located in 11 King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, Harold Christensen from 12 the NRC Region II Office located in Atlanta, Georgia, 13 David Hills from the NRC Region III Office located in 14 Lisle, Illinois and Tom Farnholtz from the NRC Region 15 IV Office located in Arlington, Texas.

16 And we obtain advice from our Office of 17 General Counsel, represented by Michael Clark and 18 Kimberly Sexton.

19 As described in our process, the NRC staff 20 may ask clarifying questions in order to better 21 understand the Petitioner's presentation and to reach 22 a reasoned decision whether to accept or reject the 23 Petitioner's requests for review under the 2.206 24 process. Also, as described in our process, the 25 licensees have been invited to participate in today's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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16 1 meeting to ensure that they understand the concerns 2 about their facilities or activities. While the 3 licensees may also ask questions to clarify the issues 4 raised by the Petitioner, I want to stress that the 5 licensees are not a part of the PRB's decision-making 6 process.

7 I would like to next summarize the 8 Petition Review Board's understanding of the scope of 9 the petition under consideration and the NRC 10 activities to date.

11 On April 13, 2011, Mr. Paul Gunter and Mr.

12 Kevin Kamps of Beyond Nuclear, who will be referred to 13 in the meeting as the Petitioners, submitted a 14 petition, under Title 10 of the Code of Federal 15 Regulations, Part 2.206, regarding immediate shutdown 16 of all GE BWR Mark I Units. Subsequently, Ms. Mary 17 Lampert of Pilgrim Watch, Raymond Shadis of New 18 England Coalition, Patricia Birnie of GE Stockholders' 19 Alliance, Marvin Lewis, David Kraft of New Energy 20 Information Service, Janet Tauro of New Jersey 21 Environmental Federation, Janet Tauro of Grandmothers, 22 Mothers and More for Energy Safety, Tim Judson of 23 Central New York-Citizens Awareness Network, Deb Katz 24 of Citizens Awareness Network, John LaForge of 25 Nukewatch, Louis Zeller of Blue Ridge Environmental NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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17 1 Defense League, John Sanbonmatsu from Worcester 2 Polytechnic Institute, Patsy Lowe, Scott Portzline of 3 Three Mile Island Alert security consultant, and Pine 4 duBois of Jones River Watershed Association 5 respectively requested to be added as Co-petitioners 6 to the above mentioned Beyond Nuclear petition, and 7 will collectively be referred to as Co-petitioners.

8 The Petitioners seek the enforcement 9 action to immediately shut down all GE Boiling Water 10 Reactor Mark I Units for the following reasons:

11 fundamentally flawed combination of free standing 12 steel primary containments for the pressure 13 suppression containment systems; spent Fuel pools 14 elevated to the top of the reactor building outside 15 and above the rated containment structure without 16 safety-related back-up electric power, Class E1 17 systems to cool high-density storage of thermally hot 18 and highly radioactive nuclear waste in the event of 19 loss of grid power.

20 The Fukushima Daiichi nuclear catastrophe 21 demonstrates the vulnerability of this large volume of 22 nuclear materials outside of any rated containment in 23 the event of a prolonged electrical grid power failure 24 without back-up emergency Alternating Current 25 electrical generators and without the additional NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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18 1 reliable emergency backup of Direct Current battery 2 systems.

3 The subject Mark I units were identified 4 as early as September 22, 1972 by memo from Dr.

5 Stephen Hanauer of US Atomic Energy Commission, to be 6 vulnerable to early failure under severe accident 7 conditions including over-pressurization. Moreover, 8 safety concerns over the substandard Mark I pressure 9 suppression containment system were again affirmed in 10 1986 by Dr. Harold Denton, Director of the Office of 11 Nuclear Reactor Regulation with the US Nuclear 12 Regulatory Commission, when he told a nuclear industry 13 conference that the flawed reactor containment type 14 has as high as 90 percent chance of failure if 15 challenged by a severe accident conditions.

16 This same reactor design has now 17 dramatically failed in Japan to reliably and 18 adequately mitigate and contain significant and 19 mounting radiological releases to the atmosphere, 20 groundwater and the ocean from multiple severe 21 accidents in multiple GE BWR Mark I units at the 22 Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

23 In order to assure long-term containment 24 integrity, an option to temporarily defeat the 25 containment was provided by NRC to the Mark I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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19 1 operators by voluntarily installing the hardened 2 wetwell vent system, also known as direct torus vent 3 system, that runs from the torus directly to the plant 4 vent stack without going through charcoal bed 5 radiation filtration system, referred to NRC Generic 6 Letter 89-16. The Petitioners assert that the failure 7 of the Mark I containment even with the hardened vent 8 system at Fukushima Daiichi demonstrates the 9 inadequacy in design to mitigate and contain a severe 10 accident resulting from longer station blackout.

11 In conclusion, the Petitioners state: "Given this 12 tragic demonstration at Fukushima, the rational, 13 reasonable and only relevant protection is remove the 14 Mark I from any set of circumstances that might ever 15 challenge the failed experiment again."

16 With regard to enforcement actions, the 17 Petitioners requested to immediately suspend operating 18 licenses of all GE BWR Mark I Units pending full NRC 19 review with independent expert and public 20 participation from affected emergency planning zone 21 communities.

22 The Petitioners also requested that all GE 23 BWR Mark I operating licenses be suspended until the 24 following emergency enforcement actions are taken.

25 And I'm only listing highlights here.

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20 1 Conduct public meetings within each of the 2 ten-mile emergency planning zone for each GE BWR site 3 for the purpose of receiving public comment and 4 independent expert testimony regarding the reliability 5 of hardened vent system or direct torus vent system.

6 Immediately revoke prior pre-approval of 7 the hardened vent system or direct torus vent system 8 at each GE BWR Mark I unit under the provisions of 10 9 CFR 50.59.

10 Immediately issue Confirmatory Action 11 Orders to all GE BWR Mark I units to promptly install 12 safety-related backup electrical power, Class E1, and 13 additional backup Direct Current battery system to 14 ensure reliable supply of power for the spent fuel 15 pool cooling system.

16 Now please allow me to discuss the NRC 17 activities to date.

18 On the morning of April 19, 2011, the 19 petition manager contacted the Petitioners by email to 20 discuss the 10 CFR 2.206 process and offered the 21 Petitioners an opportunity to address the PRB by phone 22 or in person. The Petitioners requested to address 23 the PRB in person with an updated petition prior to 24 the PRB's internal meeting to make the initial 25 recommendation to accept or reject the petition for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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21 1 review.

2 On the afternoon of April 19th, the PRB 3 met internally to discuss the request for immediate 4 action in the petition. On April 24, the Petitioners 5 were informed that the PRB denied the request for 6 immediate action. Based on the information provided 7 in the petition, and the information available through 8 the NRC's ongoing assessment of the Fukushima Daiichi 9 nuclear plant, the Petition Review Board did not 10 identify any immediate safety concerns which would 11 impact the health and safety of the public.

12 Therefore, the PRB denied the request for immediate 13 action.

14 As a reminder for the phone participants, 15 I ask you again to please identify yourself if you 16 make any remarks, as this will help us in the 17 preparation of the meeting transcript that will be 18 made publicly available. Also, please speak loudly, 19 clearly, and directly into your phone or microphone.

20 We have a lot of people on the line and the volume is 21 not the best.

22 Mr. Gunter, I'll now turn it over to you 23 to allow you to provide any additional information you 24 believe the Board should consider as part of this 25 petition. Your presentation concludes in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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22 1 approximately 30 minutes as you requested and I will 2 allot the Co-petitioners additional time to address 3 the Petition Review Board.

4 I also like to mention that we are unable 5 to allow other Co-petitioners to present because of 6 time constraints, however, we welcome any additional 7 information you can provide in writing for our review.

8 Are there any questions before we proceed?

9 (No response.)

10 MR. GUNTER: Thank you, Mr. Nelson.

11 Again, my name is Paul Gunter. I'm Director of the 12 Reactor Oversight Project for Beyond Nuclear.

13 We want to thank the U.S. Nuclear 14 Regulatory Commission for the opportunity to address 15 the PRB on this unprecedented event. It is now in 16 evidence that there's broad public concern that the 17 Agency should pay attention to.

18 I'd like to start by first of all saying 19 that according to a 2002 Office of Inspector General 20 Report, "The NRC appears to have informally 21 established an unreasonably high burden of requiring 22 absolute proof of a safety problem versus lack of 23 reasonable assurance of maintaining public health and 24 safety before it will act to shut down a power plant."

25 Such is now the case, once again, before the NRC with NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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23 1 the General Electric Mark I Boiling Water Reactor.

2 The Fukushima nuclear accident has 3 reaffirmed many previous warnings from former federal 4 safety regulators and experts like Atomic Energy 5 Commission, the Chief Safety Officer, Dr. Steven 6 Hanauer in 1972; Dr. Harold Denton with NRC in 1986; 7 and even with the nuclear engineers who were 8 intimately involved in the development of the Mark I, 9 namely Dale Bridenbaugh, Gregory Hubbard, and Richard 10 Minor who resigned their prestigious positions from GE 11 in 1976. All of these gentlemen foresaw this accident 12 at Fukushima coming and spoke out early on in the 13 interest of safety.

14 The General Electric Mark I Boiling Water 15 Reactor is not a quality product. It is highly prone 16 to failure during an accident and its further use 17 should be discouraged. Beyond Nuclear submitted an 18 emergency enforcement petition to the NRC on April 19 13th requesting suspension of operations at all U.S.

20 Mark I pending the following specific emergency 21 enforcement actions. The NRC has requested to convene 22 a public meeting in each of the emergency planning 23 zones for each Mark I nuclear power plants to take and 24 transcribe public comment and their independent 25 experts as part of the Agency's March 2011 chartered NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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24 1 review of the implications of the Fukushima Daiichi 2 Nuclear Power Plant accident.

3 Secondly, the NRC is requested to revoke 4 its approval of the installation of the GE Mark I 5 hardened vent system as provided in Generic Letter 6 89-16 in September 1989 under the provisions of 10 CFR 7 50.59 and I stress instead require all GE Mark I 8 operators to submit to the formal license amendment 9 process accorded with full public hearing rights.

10 Third, the NRC is requested to require all 11 owner/operators to retrofit the Mark I spent fuel 12 pools with Class E1 emergency backup power systems 13 including independent AC power generators and DC 14 battery backup up to 72 hours8.333333e-4 days <br />0.02 hours <br />1.190476e-4 weeks <br />2.7396e-5 months <br /> to assure the reliable 15 operation of cooling systems for hundreds of tons of 16 thermally hot and highly radioactive used nuclear fuel 17 stored under water in elevated storage ponds and each 18 of these Mark I in the event of a loss of off-site 19 electrical power.

20 On June 8th, today, 2011, marks the 90th 21 day of the on-going multiple severe nuclear accidents 22 at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant 23 complex as a result of an extended station blackout, 24 loss of grid power, emergency diesel generators, and 25 depletion of onsite battery backup and multiple loss NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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25 1 of cooling accidents caused by the Great Eastern Japan 2 earthquake and tsunami of March 11, 2011. March 13th, 3 I'm sorry. It is March 11, right.

4 A loss of cooling accident from an 5 extended station blackout can be caused by other 6 events or a combination of events such as the 7 simultaneous occurrence of a catastrophic flooding 8 along the Missouri River, for example, something that 9 Fort Calhoun is experiencing right now, and then 10 simultaneously damage from a super tornado or perhaps 11 something more sinister or deliberate like the 12 vengeful and calculated actions of a determined enemy.

13 Any accident that challenges a substandard and a 14 dangerously flawed Mark I has the same potential 15 consequences and worse.

16 More than 24 miles of the Japanese eastern 17 coastline and 12 miles inland, already devastated by 18 the earthquake and the tsunami, will not be 19 reconstructed or inhabitable for the foreseeable 20 future because of the significant radioactive 21 contamination that continues to escape from the 22 Fukushima Mark I. Significant radioactive 23 contamination is in evidence in area groundwater, 24 soil, vegetation tens of miles away and still being 25 discovered even farther away. Millions of gallons of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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26 1 radioactive water from the stricken reactors continues 2 to flow into the sea contaminating Japan's key food 3 sources of fish and seaweed. This is but a portion of 4 the mounting evidence of the failed experiments with 5 the Mark I and the deeply-flawed containment system.

6 Beyond Nuclear supplements its April 13, 7 2011 petition to include the following Mark I 8 reactors, Browns Ferry Units 1, 2, 3; Brunswick 1 and 9 2; Cooper 1; Dresden 2 and 3; Duane Arnold 1; 10 Fitzpatrick 1 and 2; Hatch 1 and 2; Hope Creek 1; 11 Monticello 1; Millstone 1; Nine Mile Point 1; Oyster 12 Creek; Peachbottom 2 and 3; Pilgrim; Quad Cities; and 13 Vermont Yankee.

14 Our first requested emergency action is 15 that NRC come into each of these Mark I communities 16 into the emergency planning zones and explain its 17 justification for the continued operation of the Mark 18 I reactors and take testimony from public and their 19 experts for incorporation into the Agency's chartered 20 long-term review of the implications of Fukushima for 21 U.S. reactor operations.

22 The Mark I licensees were initially 23 licensed under the contract and public trust that the 24 reactor operated in a containment system with 25 essentially leaked tight as part of the Agency and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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27 1 industry's defense-in-depth philosophy. The 2 containment was supposedly designed, constructed and 3 licensed to withstand the associated pressures of a 4 loss-of-coolant accident and a disruptive core 5 explosion to contain radioactive nuclides that might 6 be released in a reactor accident. This assurance 7 allows power plants to be sited close to large 8 population centers. But the dramatic evidence of the 9 four explosions at Fukushima, three full-core 10 meltdowns and the significant radioactive 11 contamination released into the atmosphere, the land, 12 the groundwater, and millions of gallons of 13 radioactive cooling water pouring into the sea clearly 14 represents with reasonable assurance these three Mark 15 Is have failed.

16 Notification for the construction of a 17 nuclear power plant in the United States must meet a 18 set of General Design Criteria which includes 19 Criterion 16, containment design which requires that 20 "reactor containment and associate systems shall be 21 provided to establish an essentially leak-tight 22 barrier against the uncontrolled release of 23 radioactivity to the environment and to assure that 24 the containment design conditions important to safety 25 are not exceeded for as long as a postulated action NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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28 1 conditions require."

2 The Petitioners are supplementing their 3 April 13th petition asserting that the Mark I system 4 is an unreliable and dangerous containment component.

5 We are submitting the 1976 joint testimony as 6 supplement to our earlier petition of the three GE 7 engineers, Dale Bridenbaugh, Richard Hubbard, and 8 Gregory Minor who publicly resigned from GE before 9 Congress testifying that the Mark I is not a quality 10 product and because integrity of the primary 11 containment which in their view is an absolute 12 requirement for continued operation could no longer be 13 assured.

14 The NRC eventually concurred. However, 15 upon admission that the Mark I is not reliable as 16 contracted to be essentially leak tight, rather than 17 embark upon an actual containment improvement program 18 to seek to strengthen the Mark I to its licensed 19 condition as essentially leak tight, the industry and 20 the Agency instead chose to pursue an experimental fix 21 that now compromises containment to pursue the option 22 for the operators to vent the consequences of a severe 23 accident to the atmosphere in order to save the flawed 24 product from permanent rupture. That experiment is 25 now demonstrated to have failed.

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29 1 The April 13, 2011 petition first argued 2 that the experimental hardened vent system has failed 3 at Fukushima with significant safety implications to 4 US Mark Is. On May 17, 2011, The New York Times 5 confirmed that "the emergency vents American officials 6 have said would prevent devastating hydrogen 7 explosions at nuclear power plants in the United 8 States were put to the test in Japan and failed to 9 work according to experts and officials with the 10 company that operates the crippled Fukushima Daiichi 11 Nuclear Power Plant."

12 The failure of the vents called into the 13 question the safety of similar nuclear power plants in 14 the United States and Japan. After the venting failed 15 at Fukushima, the hydrogen gas fueled explosions that 16 spewed radioactive materials into the atmosphere 17 reaching levels about ten percent of the estimated 18 emissions from Chernobyl according to Japanese Nuclear 19 Regulatory Agency. As of June 7th, Japan doubled its 20 estimation to 20 percent of Chernobyl's release.

21 The Petitioners now emphasize the 22 irrationality of the apparent regulatory retreat from 23 the Agency's own and all important defense-in-depth 24 regulatory standard and the unacceptable compromise 25 that has been imposed upon health and safety, the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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30 1 approval and installation of the experimental venting 2 system that was retrofitted to deliberately, albeit 3 temporarily defeat the weaker, substandard containment 4 of the Mark I through controlled release of an 5 accident in order to save this principal and last 6 barrier system from permanent rupture and uncontrolled 7 releases.

8 The Times story further illuminates that 9 the venting design is the result of conflicting 10 schools of practice within the NRC: those who want 11 containment closed and those who need to have a 12 recognized weaker containment be vented under severe 13 accident scenarios. "It is a very controversial 14 system," an expert is quoted to say in the Times 15 story. "It is alarming that there is no consensus 16 within the NRC over the controversial compromise of 17 the Agency's defense-in-depth philosophy and thus the 18 public health and safety."

19 The lack of regulatory consensus and 20 evidence from Fukushima further warrants the requested 21 suspension of the operation of the Mark I and the 22 requested emergency enforcement actions. The news 23 article concludes that a redesign of the venting 24 system itself might be necessary which brings to 25 second emergency enforcement request. The NRC should NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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31 1 revoke the Mark I experimental hardened vent system as 2 provided under 10 CFR 50.59 and require the operators 3 to submit the license amendment process with full 4 hearing rights by the public.

5 The provisions of 50.59 provide making 6 changes to nuclear power plants without going through 7 the NRC prior approval, review, or the license 8 amendment process and therefore such changes are not 9 subject to public hearings, but only if the change 10 does not result in "more than a minimal increase" in 11 the risk of the occurrence of an accident, malfunction 12 of safety components, or create the possibility of an 13 accident of different types."

14 The NRC is now conducting its chartered 15 review on the implications of the catastrophic 16 Fukushima accident for U.S. reactors which more 17 directly bears upon the 23 Mark Is and their 18 experimental venting system. We charge that this 19 process itself requires a revocation of these 50.59 20 approvals.

21 We have reviewed the NRC and the industry 22 correspondence in reply to Generic Letter 89-16 which 23 particularly was the NRC guidance for the Mark I 24 hardened vent installation and it revealed the record 25 with a scant, inconsistent and incomplete response NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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32 1 from the operators. Much of the controversial 2 documentation is classified as proprietary by industry 3 and not publicly available. Some inspection findings 4 on the installations are available, others are not.

5 Other inspections found violations, but that's where 6 the public record ends.

7 Oyster Creek in New Jersey, Millstone I in 8 Connecticut, Dresden II and III in Illinois, and 9 Fitzpatrick in New York in their October 18, 1989 10 reply declined to voluntarily install vents. Mark Is 11 like Oyster Creek and Fitzpatrick said that they 12 already had existing vent systems. Oyster Creek 13 eventually installed the upgraded vent, but 14 Fitzpatrick, with its pre-existing vent was approved 15 with "acceptable deviation."

16 The Petitioners now request that NRC 17 publicly disclose the status of each Mark I vent 18 installation by thoroughly reconstituting the public 19 record and the release of proprietary information.

20 In closing, we are submitting our full 21 supplemental comments in writing to the PRB and we 22 further request at this time that the Petition Review 23 Board convene another public meeting per Management 24 Directive 8.11 to receive additional supplemental 25 material and to accommodate the additional community NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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33 1 groups that have submitted their request as 2 Co-petitioners to address the Petition Review Board.

3 I would now like to turn over the 4 remainder of the time to my colleague, Kevin Kamps.

5 MR. KAMPS: Thank you, Paul. My name is 6 Kevin Kamps. I serve as Radioactive Waste Specialist 7 at Beyond Nuclear. And my comments, my supplemental 8 comments will address high-level radioactive waste of 9 GE BWR Mark I.

10 As Robert Alvarez at Institute for Policy 11 Studies said in his May 2011 report entitled "Spent 12 Nuclear Fuel Pools in the United States Reducing the 13 Deadly Risks of Storage", high-level radioactive waste 14 storage pool risks are no longer academic, theoretical 15 or to be neglected or downplayed, that they have said, 16 for decades by the U.S. nuclear power industry, as 17 well as the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. In light 18 of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear catastrophe, high-19 level radioactive waste storage pool risks are 20 particularly vulnerable GE BWR Mark I elevated pool 21 are especially concerning.

22 A coalition of scores of grassroots and 23 national environmental organizations have urged NRC 24 for nearly a decade, ever since the 9/11 terrorist 25 attacks to empty GE BWR Mark I pools into hardened on-NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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34 1 site storage. Our repeated appeals and warnings have 2 fallen on deaf ears at NRC. The Agency's slogan is 3 "protecting people and the environment" and it's 4 proposed mission and mandate is to protect public 5 health and safety, the environment, the common defense 6 and security against the potentially catastrophic 7 risks of nuclear power, including high-level 8 radioactive waste pool storage.

9 Ironically, this has even included, this 10 response from NRC has even included NRC opposition to 11 environmental intervention aimed at upgrading high-12 level radioactive waste safety and security. As the 13 world's single largest GE BWR Mark I, the 1122 14 megawatt electric Fermi II Nuclear Power Plant in 15 Monroe, Michigan, located on the shoreline of the 16 Great Lakes, 20 percent of the world's surface fresh 17 water, drinking water supply for 40 million people in 18 the United States and Canada and numerous Native 19 Americans and First Nation, and life blood of one of 20 the world's single largest regional economies. This 21 opposition by NRC staff to our intervention for safety 22 and security upgrades for high-level radioactive waste 23 storage is but one example of what is at stake.

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35 1 several times more than Fukushima Daiichi's Unit 4 2 pool. Another example at Vermont Yankee's pool also 3 contains well over 500 tons of high-level radioactive 4 waste, putting not only Vermont, but also New 5 Hampshire and Massachusetts and additional states and 6 even countries downland or downstream at risk.

7 Incredibly, NRC has allowed Mark I pools 8 to keep their high-level radioactive waste packed to 9 maximum capacity. As Robert Alvarez has reported, 10 several times more densely packed than originally 11 designed. An especially egregious example of this is 12 at the Millstone Unit 1, Mark I in Connecticut.

13 Although permanently closed since the mid-1990s, NRC 14 has allowed this pool to remain packed with high-level 15 radioactive waste, an incredible and entirely 16 unnecessary risk, an accident or attack waiting to 17 happen.

18 Mark I owners and operators seeking to 19 defer dry cast storage costs for as long as possible 20 has been allowed to put us all at incredible risk by 21 keeping their pools packed to the gills.

22 My supplemental written submission which 23 just hit the floor quotes at length Bob Alvarez' new 24 report which clearly shows how these risks -- how big 25 these risks are. In fact, BWR Mark I high-level NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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36 1 radioactive waste storage pools represent some of the 2 single most concentrated motherloads of hazardous 3 radioactivity in the entire United States.

4 For example, Alvarez cites the following 5 Mark Is as containing more than 200 million curies of 6 radioactivity associated with their adjacent nuclear 7 power plants that is: Millstone Unit 1, the entire 8 site containing 500 million curies; Dresden Units 2 9 and 3, 350 million curies; Browns Ferry Units 1, 2, 10 and 3, 325 million curies; Nine Mile Point 1 and 11 Fitzpatrick 1, 300 million curies; Peachbottom 2 and 12 3, 250 million curies; Hatch 1 and 2, 250 million 13 curies; Hope Creek 1, 250 million curies; Quad Cities 14 1 and 2, 225 million curies.

15 Following close behind, Oyster Creek at 16 125 million curies and Vermont Yankee at 100 million 17 curies. In addition, Fermi II has 90 million; Duane 18 Arnold, 80 million; Cooper, 75 million; Brunswick 1 19 and 2, 75 million; Monticello, 70 million; and 20 Pilgrim, 70 million.

21 My written submission which I will turn 22 into you also includes a lengthy excerpt from a 1996 23 book by David Lochbaum entitled Nuclear Waste Disposal 24 Crisis. Lochbaum, a nuclear engineer with 17 years' 25 experience with Mark Is and has served at NRC as a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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37 1 trainer for NRC Mark I and sectors has long served as 2 the director of the Nuclear Safety Project at Union of 3 Concerned Scientists. His 1996 book written 15 years 4 ago shows that Mark I high-level radioactive waste 5 storage pool risks have long been known about and 6 downplayed to our peril. In fact, he cites an 7 alarming number of near-miss accidents that could have 8 led to catastrophic radioactivity releases involving 9 Mark I pools.

10 These risks are made all the worse by Mark 11 I pools elevated design located outside any primary 12 containment structure vulnerable to both accident and 13 attacks. Whether emptied suddenly by a drain down or 14 slowly by a boil off, an uncovering of Mark I cooling 15 water cover which preclude emergency response produced 16 a lethal gamma dose rate due to loss of radioactive 17 shielding provided by the water as has occurred at the 18 Fukushima Daiichi.

19 It could also lead in the matter of hours 20 or days to an exothermic zirconium fire which could 21 release up to 100 percent of the hazardous and 22 volatile radioactive cesium-137 put in the pools.

23 Millions or even tens of millions of curies' worth in 24 the environment due to a lack of primary containment.

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38 1 such fires? A 1997 study cited by Alvarez and others 2 reported that 8 to 80 megacuries of cesium-137 could 3 be released from a pool fire into the environment.

4 This would result in 54,000 to 143,000 deaths the 5 report documented and it would result in 2,000 to 6 7,000 square kilometers of agricultural land 7 contaminated. The report also calculated economic 8 costs of $117 to $566 billion which has not been 9 adjusted for inflation.

10 A report by the NRC itself, NUREG-1738, 11 dated 2001, also looked at the potential for waste 12 pool fires and calculated that 25,000 people as far as 13 500 miles downwind from a pool fire could die from 14 latent cancer.

15 In conclusion, NRC should require not only 16 emergency backup power on Mark I pools as was laid out 17 earlier, emergency makeup water systems and supplies, 18 as well as water-level gauges, temperature gauges and 19 radiation monitors that would survive and continue to 20 function despite even severe natural disasters and 21 nuclear catastrophes as shown by Fukushima Daiichi as 22 being all too possible.

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39 1 security, and public health, safety, and environmental 2 protection policy of the highest priority, the 3 replacement of unnecessarily and indefensibly risky, 4 high-density storage of high-level radioactive waste 5 in Mark I pools, hardened on-site storage as an 6 interim measure, as has been urged for nearly a decade 7 by almost 200 environmental groups across the U.S.

8 Thank you.

9 CHAIRMAN NELSON: We'll go to the 10 Co-petitioners' presentations at this time.

11 Ms. Lampert, at this time you have 12 approximately ten minutes to address the Petition 13 Review Board as you requested.

14 MS. LAMPERT: Thank you. Mary Lampert of 15 Pilgrim Watch. Thank you for the opportunity.

16 I'm going to start off with a process 17 issue. As you know, Pilgrim Watch, Massachusetts 18 Attorney General filed requests for hearings in 19 Pilgrim's license renewal application, June 1 and June 20 2, respectively, on new and significant information 21 regarding the probability of severe accident 22 containment failures, hydrogen explosions, spent fuel 23 pool failure, fires, and the probability of far 24 greater volume of releases and consequent off-site 25 costs than previously modeled.

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40 1 These filings highlighted what's before 2 you: the venting systems, spent fuel fires, etcetera.

3 4 It was sent to the PRB and added to the 5 record, so the procedural question is this. Should 6 the PRB hold the 2.206 process in abeyance until the 7 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board issues its opinion?

8 We say no. But that's not what happened when a 2.206 9 on submerged non-environmentally qualified cables was 10 put on hold in early 2011. It was slated to be put up 11 on the Federal Register. It was put on hold because a 12 filing on the issue was filed by Pilgrim Watch and is 13 before the Atomic Safety and Licensing Board at 14 Pilgrim. So you'll be facing the same question.

15 We believe that filing a license renewal 16 contention on the same subject as a 2.206 should not 17 present a conflict or require holding in abeyance 18 2.206. This is for two reasons. First is a very 19 clear distinction between current operating safety 20 issues that occur before a reactor's 40th birthday, 21 their present safety concerns, albeit ones that 22 continue into the future. And on the other hand 23 concern that only address the extended 20-year license 24 renewal period.

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41 1 that we do not believe that under NRC regulation that 2 intervenors in the license renewal process 3 automatically surrender their right to redress on 4 current operating safety issues under the 2.206 5 process. In fact, there is no regulation, simply a 6 Management Directive 8.11 review process for 10 CFR 7 2.206 petition. Because both the LAR adjudication 8 process and the 2.206 process take a considerable 9 period of time, Pilgrim, for example is in its sixth 10 year of adjudication in the license renewal process 11 and clearance type. We ask that both processes be 12 held simultaneously. And I respectfully request we 13 have a PRB teleconference to work this procedural 14 issue out. And we shall submit a written request to 15 that effect.

16 I'll address two issues and, as you know, 17 Pilgrim was the initial experiment in the direct-cause 18 event. And it did not fix as advertised the basic 19 design flaw of the GE Mark I BWR. It did not prevent 20 containment failure. In fact, when it was tried, it 21 failed three times at Unit 1, Unit 2, Unit 3 which is 22 a pretty bad score.

23 In 1990, the NRC Chairman Kenneth Carr 24 acknowledged one of the DTV's limits. He said that 25 during some anticipated transient without scram event NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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42 1 the pressure in the containment will rapidly increase.

2 Venting pressure could be reached in a matter of 3 minutes rather than hours. Therefore, venting may not 4 prevent containment failure because of the high 5 containment pressurization rate, but would provide 6 additional time to scram the reactor and delay --

7 delay, not prevent core melt.

8 In March 2011, obviously, we had the first 9 real test and failure of the DTV. And we learned 10 three things. Properly trained operators in Japan 11 decided not to open the DTV when they should have 12 because they feared the effects offsite on significant 13 unfiltered releases.

14 Second, when the operators finally decided 15 to open the DTV, they were unable to do so because of 16 power loss initially and then subsequent heavy 17 radiation to operate them manually. The failure of 18 the DTV to vent led to containment failure explosions 19 that resulted in significant off-site consequences.

20 Now how will this apply here? First, 21 let's get properly trained operators not opening the 22 DTV. This goes to the fact that Pilgrim's and other 23 vents here to save a buck on filters. We always 24 thought it was an unnecessary, unfair, poisoning of 25 neighborhoods in order to save containment, but it was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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43 1 looked at as sort of a balance. However, it is seen 2 to have unintended consequences because the operators 3 are reluctant to open the vent because they recognize 4 the contamination that will go out and therefore will 5 wait and wait and wait until too long.

6 There is really no economic basis for the 7 status quo, to leave unfiltered vents in place. It is 8 not the practice in Europe. Entergy estimated that 9 adding a filtered vent at Pilgrim in their license 10 renewal application would cost $3 million. Houses in 11 my neighborhood sell for more than that. Wayne 12 Leonard, CEO of Entergy, earned over $27 million in 13 compensation in one year 2010. Personally, I think he 14 could live on $24 million a year.

15 So number one, the vent has to be 16 filtered. Number two, we learned in Japan when the 17 operators finally decided to open the vent, they 18 weren't able to do so. This would happen, I know for 19 sure, at Pilgrim because to open the first two valves 20 requires power from a battery. If that is -- also 21 Pilgrim's control room has two key lock switches in a 22 series that have to be opened manually when the need 23 to use the DTV occurs. All these steps can go awry 24 just as they went awry in Fukushima.

25 What we need, obviously, a passive system.

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44 1 This was recommended years ago out in Minnesota at 2 Monticello to put in a rupture disk, properly set to 3 release at the time needed, followed by valves that 4 have ample redundancy to close once the situation is 5 brought under control, to put the genie back in the 6 bottle so to speak. This is doable. It is a design 7 issue. It is not a design block.

8 Third, the failure of the DTV to vent led 9 to containment failure explosions at Fukushima as we 10 would find in the same weak containment structures we 11 have and highly significant ongoing off-site 12 consequences far in excess and currently modeled and 13 assumed by NRC and industry in the event of 14 containment failure.

15 Japan has shown that industry and NRC 16 assumptions of the probability of off-site 17 consequences are wrong. We expect that Entergy and 18 the rest of the licensees will continue to fight 19 having a filter, putting in reasonable fixes, relying 20 on incorrect assumptions that the suppression pool 21 will scrub out retain particulates and volatile 22 fission products and other particulates will be plated 23 out. This hopeful assumption is simply wrong.

24 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Ms. Lampert?

25 MS. LAMPERT: Yes.

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45 1 CHAIRMAN NELSON: I'm going to ask you to 2 bring to a closure your comments, please.

3 MS. LAMPERT: I'm going to do that. Thank 4 you.

5 Dr. Von Hippel explained this. NRC knew 6 this, which is in our filing. In summary, the design 7 team of the Mark I failure and what we need is to go 8 forward with a fixed DTV, spent fuel required to be in 9 dry cask. Thank you very much for this opportunity.

10 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Thank you, Ms. Lampert.

11 Mr. Shadis, at this time you have 10 to 15 12 minutes to address the Board as you requested.

13 MR. SHADIS: Thank you. And thanks for 14 the opportunity to address the Board. This is Raymond 15 Shadis speaking for New England Coalition and I would 16 like to preface with the caveat that my remarks are 17 intended to represent New England Coalition's views 18 only and I hope that if they are in any way 19 contradictory or in any way discount any remarks by 20 previous presenters that the PRB won't use that. Let 21 the remarks that have been made please stand.

22 From our point of view the 2.206 is not 23 asking that NRC change any of its regulations. What 24 we are asking for is for NRC to enforce its 25 regulations. Mr. Gunter brought up the design NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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46 1 criterion, GDC 16 for containment design. What we are 2 asking is that regulation, that design criterion be 3 enforced and without any accommodation or editing in 4 order to make it more palatable to the industry. The 5 containment must be designed to contain and it is just 6 strikingly unfair to propose to the public that it 7 will contain except in certain circumstances.

8 With respect to the Mark I containment, 9 NRC has -- and this is what is apparent to us 10 observing over time -- that what NRC has done is to 11 adjust their regulations, adjust their enforcement, 12 adjust their inspections to accommodate all of the 13 various weaknesses in the Mark I containment design 14 system. And at the same time, because NRC has an 15 ambition to preserving the operation of these reactors 16 and to making it more profitable, they have allowed in 17 the extended power uprate process, they have allowed 18 plant operators to take credit for containment 19 overpressure in order to maintain suction on the pump.

20 I don't know, but it could very well be 21 that the hesitation on the part of the Japanese 22 reactor operators was just that, that they had gotten 23 to a point where temperatures were such that they were 24 afraid they were lose suction on their pumps and 25 therefore were maintaining containment pressure rather NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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47 1 than venting. I don't know. But it is certainly a 2 predicament that NRC allowed reactor operators to be 3 placed in. It adds to the complexity of working with 4 this very intricate, active containment system. And I 5 guess that's the key because its very weakness is its 6 sophistication. Its very weakness is its complexity 7 and it does require operator attention at the highest 8 level and therein a failing.

9 I would like to just briefly address one 10 part of that and that is that the Mark I containment 11 system requires power throughout the accident sequence 12 in order to be properly operated in order to function 13 and it appears that at Fukushima power was lost to the 14 various containment systems and accident mitigation 15 system components not simply because of the earthquake 16 and not simply because of the dislocation of the 17 diesel emergency generators following the tsunami, but 18 more likely because of the interruption of circuitry 19 and power distribution within the plant due to 20 flooding.

21 When you look at this, I would point the 22 PRB to the many news articles about the workers who 23 were contaminated when their boots were overtopped.

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48 1 were stringing new electrical cables into a pump and 2 that pump to be used for an attempt to recover that 3 particular reactor unit.

4 So you know, obviously, the cable was not 5 a victim of some common mode failure. It was 6 functioning after the earthquake because they were 7 still operating those pumps after the earthquake.

8 However, the pumps were not functioning when power was 9 restored to the site because power distribution 10 somewhere along the line had failed.

11 This is particularly relevant to Vermont 12 Yankee because the question, the whole question of the 13 susceptibility of non-qualified, safety-related 14 electrical cable to wetness, to flooding, submergence, 15 was an issue that we raised in the license renewal 16 proceedings. It's an issue that the Atomic Safety and 17 Licensing Board and the Commission itself decided to 18 ignore. It's a condition that was allowed. It was 19 written in to their rewrite on the GALL Report and 20 even though NRC staff opined that it might not take 21 care of aging issues, companies were allowed to leave 22 nonqualified cables in areas where they could get wet, 23 but do no more than to inspect every six months and 24 test every several years.

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49 1 response to what is a design flaw. The design 2 criteria state that every component must be able to 3 withstand the environments in which it is expected to 4 operate, but this is not the case. And it's 5 particularly egregious when you're considering this 6 2.206 petition, I would ask you to reflect back on the 7 situation of March 10th and 11th. March 10th was an 8 affirmation session in which the NRC Commission then 9 gave the nod to the staff to issue Vermont Yankee's 10 license renewal even with this cable issue 11 outstanding.

12 The next day was the Fukushima incident 13 and then -- and then, the Commission went ahead, based 14 on nothing but hot air, to say that they were 15 confident that the plants in the U.S. were safe and in 16 compliance and therefore they went ahead and issued 17 the renewed license to Vermont Yankee, not taking 18 Fukushima into consideration, but absolutely ignoring 19 it. And I'm hoping that when you review these things 20 you won't do that.

21 If I may, just a couple of words about the 22 fragility of the elevated spent-fuel pool at Vermont 23 Yankee. In NUREG 1738, attachment 3, I believe it is, 24 the NRC's consultant, seismic consultant, Dr. Robert 25 Kennedy, points back to NUREG CR 5176 which is a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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50 1 seismic analysis on spent-fuel pool at two 2 representative plants, one of them being Vermont 3 Yankee. And he says for Vermont Yankee, Reference 1 4 being the cited NUREG, states that "critical failure 5 modes for gross structural failure of the pool is out 6 of plain sheer failure of pool floor slab. With this 7 failure mode, the liner will be breached and a large 8 crack will develop through the concrete floor slab 9 within a distance equal to the floor slab thickness 10 from the pool walls. Possibly," he says, "possibly, 11 the entire floor will drop out, but I think that such 12 a gross failure is unlikely." There's no 13 quantification there for what unlikely means.

14 However, all of the jerry-rigged backfit 15 gizmos to spray water into the spent-fuel pool would 16 not mean very much if the bottom were to fall out. In 17 2008, Vermont Yankee had a crane brake failure with a 18 loaded cask. The crane had been tested only to 80 19 percent of its anticipated load. I don't know why it 20 wasn't tested to 120 percent. It was tested with an 21 empty cask. And then some 30 plus tons were added.

22 And it failed. The brakes failed on the cask. A few 23 days later, a licensee event report, amended event 24 report was issued in which the company admitted that 25 the travel stops that were intended to prevent NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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51 1 swinging the cask over the spent-fuel pool had not 2 been put in place.

3 I think the specter of a filled, concrete, 4 dry storage cask plummeting through the bottom of the 5 spent-fuel pool would be enough to make any review 6 committee wonder about the effectiveness of providing 7 some fire hose in case of a drain down. Certainly, 8 the line of sight radiation level would be 9 extraordinary. One could not count on the shielding 10 of the wall if there were a fracture, a drop out of 11 the bottom of the spent-fuel pool. The fuel would be 12 in a heap on the ground under the building.

13 Additionally, NRC very piously went to the 14 plant and looked to see if they had hoses and stuff in 15 place, but they didn't consider the possibility that a 16 small hydrogen explosion or even an aircraft impact --

17 by the way, the Mark I secondary containment says 18 NUREG 1738 would provide no substantial barrier to 19 aircraft penetration.

20 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Mr. Shadis --

21 MR. SHADIS: I'm finishing right now, sir, 22 if I may.

23 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Thank you, sir.

24 MR. SHADIS: In that instance, what NRC 25 does not consider, and they didn't consider when we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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52 1 worked on 1738 either is the draping of the metal 2 roof, collapsed metal roof over the spent-fuel pool 3 preventing the addition of any water from fire hoses 4 or cans.

5 I guess in sum, this is a real can of 6 worms that Fukushima has opened up with respect to the 7 Mark I and NRC efforts so far to assess the 8 vulnerability have been pathetically limited. And I 9 hope that you will take this petition to heart and do 10 more. Thank you.

11 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Thank you for your 12 comments, Mr. Shadis.

13 Ms. Birnie, at this time you have 14 approximately five minutes to address the Board as you 15 requested.

16 Ms. Birnie? Ms. Birnie, you're going to 17 need to speak up. We can barely hear you.

18 MS. BIRNIE: Thank you.

19 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Please get closer to 20 your phone.

21 MS. BIRNIE: I'll try. The on-going 22 Japanese nuclear catastrophe has broadened and 23 intensified the public's awareness of the risks and 24 dangers of nuclear power. I urge you to consider the 25 following request related to the Beyond Nuclear NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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53 1 petition submitted to the Nuclear Regulatory 2 Commission on April 13, 2011.

3 I hope you will suspend the operating 4 licenses of the GE Mark I reactors that are currently 5 operating in the United States. I believe you should 6 protect the public from uncontrolled releases of 7 highly dangerous radioactive emissions that may be 8 caused by long-recognized Mark I design flaws as well 9 as by potential accidents otherwise.

10 I believe it is essential that the NRC 11 stop allowing Mark I reactors to continue stockpiling 12 additional irradiated fuel rods in their used fuel 13 pools. The lack or failure of backup power essential 14 for cooling the fuel has been undeniably and 15 tragically demonstrated at the Fukushima Daiichi 16 reactors in Japan. The fuel rods should be stored in 17 reinforced concrete casks.

18 I urge you to study and implement changes 19 suggested in the May 24, 2011 report issued by Robert 20 Alvarez of the Institute for Policy Studies. Mr.

21 Alvarez advocates that essential safety measures be 22 implemented to address the dangerously over-crowded 23 fuel pools at all Mark I reactors where the irradiated 24 fuel rods have been reracked and as other reactors 25 where the fuel pool has similarly been reracked beyond NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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54 1 its design capacity.

2 I find it unconscionable that the NRC has 3 authorized 20-year license extensions for 17 of the 4 Mark I reactors. One extension was even issued as 5 recently as March 21, 2011, namely the Vermont Yankee 6 reactor only 10 days after the Fukushima Daiichi 7 disaster began. You even allowed the Vermont Yankee 8 licensee to increase the 39-year-old's reactor power 9 output by 20 percent. I believe that all Mark I 10 operating licenses should be suspended until further 11 analyses of the Japanese crises are completed and 12 lessons learned are implemented.

13 And finally, I urge that the makeup of the 14 NRC be modified to include at least one physician as 15 part of the NRC Commissioners to help give the public 16 more confidence in your vital work to protect public 17 health and safety. Thank you.

18 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Thank you, Ms. Birnie, 19 for your comments.

20 Mr. Kraft, at this time, you also have 21 approximately five minutes to address this Board.

22 MR. KRAFT: Thank you, Chairman Nelson. I 23 want to make sure, can you hear me?

24 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Yes, sir. Very clearly.

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55 1 Dave Kraft, Director of Nuclear Energy Information 2 Service. We're a 30-year-old safe energy organization 3 in Illinois.

4 I point out to this group that Illinois is 5 the most nuclear-reliant state in the United States.

6 We have 11 operating reactors and 3 closed reactors.

7 We also possess within our borders the largest 8 standing amount of high-level radioactive waste of any 9 state in the country. These reasons alone are 10 compelling enough to urge us to urge you to accept the 11 contentions in this petition.

12 In light of the explosions, fires, and the 13 now-confirmed meltdowns at the three Fukushima 14 reactors, we express grave concerns about the safety 15 of the continued operation of four BWRs at Dresden and 16 Quad Cities listed in the petition. These four 17 Illinois reactors are slightly older and of the same 18 design type and vintage of those destroyed at 19 Fukushima.

20 I'd like to point out four unique concerns 21 that we have in Illinois that we believe this petition 22 addresses and that we ask the NRC to take under 23 consideration. The first deals with existing 24 uncertainties involving verifiable safety of the 25 reactors and that this demands greater caution be NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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56 1 exercised.

2 First, the NRC has not done the proper 3 level of safety analysis in previously granted 4 pre-approval of the installation of the Mark I 5 containment, the hardened vent system which was 6 mentioned by Mr. Gunter earlier. We believe the NRC 7 should require that GE Mark I Boiling Water Reactor 8 operators submit to the formal license amendment 9 process according with full public hearing rights.

10 The second point we want to make on this 11 issue is that the lessons learned from Fukushima have 12 yet to be identified, let alone made actionable and 13 this is, in part, due to the sluggish, sometimes 14 withholding and deceptive nature of the information 15 flow coming from TEPCO, the Japanese government and 16 the IAEA. Given what is not known or currently 17 verifiable in terms of this international nuclear 18 disaster, the precautionary principle argues for 19 caution and it would seem that the German government 20 which represents the fourth largest economy in the 21 world has reached this conclusion and insisted on the 22 closure of its reactors pending thorough inspection.

23 We would expect the same kind of consideration be 24 given in the United States.

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57 1 when Southwest Airlines learned of fuselage cracks and 2 skin peeling in its fleet of 737 jets this past year, 3 it grounded the jets pending complete reinspection and 4 in many cases repairs. The NRC's current approach to 5 allow reactors of Mark I containment to continue 6 operating post-Fukushima would be akin to Southwest 7 Airlines allowing its jets to continue flying until 8 one crashed before taking action to verify safety.

9 This attitude is reprehensible and unacceptable.

10 The second unique Illinois consideration 11 would be that of precipitating events. While Illinois 12 may not be subjected to tsunamis any time soon, we do 13 have several unique precipitators for potentially 14 catastrophic events that Japan lacks. The first is 15 O'Hare Field. This is the second busiest airport in 16 the world. It's situated outside of Chicago and we 17 have calculated that normal flight time between O'Hare 18 and the two Dresden reactors is 9 minutes and to the 19 Quad Cities, 28 minutes.

20 An accidental or intentional airline crash 21 into the currently unprotected spent-fuel pool areas 22 of these reactors has the potential to sever cooling 23 water piping or institute other dangerous disruptive 24 events at reactors which would be similar to a tsunami 25 or an earthquake in Japan.

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58 1 The second unique consideration is NRC's 2 robotic response after the 9/11 incident to ensure 3 that airline crashes into reactors and spent-fuel 4 pools -- the reaction we saw inspired zero confidence 5 in the Agency that it takes this possibility 6 seriously. With 11 operating reactors in Illinois, we 7 here cannot afford this level of indifference and 8 negligence and we hope that this petition will correct 9 the enormous deficit in NRC imagination.

10 The third consideration, all Illinois 11 reactors are operating on river flood plains and the 12 current situation in Missouri and Nebraska speaks 13 volumes as to what this means in terms of flooding.

14 We would point out that moving forward in time in an 15 impending global warming and planet disruptive world, 16 this has to be taken seriously.

17 Climate models for Illinois predict 18 greater amounts of precipitation, but also of a more 19 violent nature and of intense -- a greater intensity, 20 although less frequent. So this would mean you would 21 have a potential for flooding to have an effect in an 22 Illinois reactor.

23 A third area of consideration is that the 24 Mark I spent-fuel pools are sited in a dangerous, 25 potentially, catastrophic manner. The Fukushima NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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59 1 disaster has exposed the unique vulnerability of the 2 Mark I design that the spent-fuel pools are located 3 outside of sufficiently protective reactor containment 4 and are sited five stories above ground. Neither the 5 NRC nor the U.S. Congress can repeal the law of 6 gravity. Breakage or blockage of cooling water piping 7 will result in cooling water interruption or draining 8 of the reactor spent-fuel pool opens up the 9 possibility of recreating Fukushima in the United 10 States.

11 Permitting the continued operation of 12 these reactors without correcting these design defects 13 is tantamount to criminal negligence after seeing what 14 has already occurred in Japan.

15 And the final unique Illinois situation 16 would be the potential damages to Illinois. We would 17 point out that Illinois is a prime agriculture state.

18 A nuclear accident of any kind here in Illinois opens 19 up the possibility of our state becoming the Belarus 20 or Japan of the United States. The potential economic 21 loss to agriculture here would be devastating as we 22 have seen after the Chernobyl and now the Fukushima 23 nuclear disasters. Where nations have imposed 24 embargoes on agricultural products coming from these 25 nations as a result of the meltdown.

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60 1 For these reasons and those that you have 2 heard previously, we request that the NRC accept the 3 contentions of the petition and order the closure of 4 the US BWR using the GE Mark I containment until such 5 time as the requested investigation can be completed 6 and a satisfactory safety result is independently 7 verified.

8 We would conclude by pointing out that 9 whatever has already happened must therefore be 10 possible. Fukushima is hard data that the NRC cannot 11 responsibly ignore. So we thank you for your 12 consideration in listening to these remarks and we 13 would welcome any questions or discussion you might 14 have. Thank you.

15 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Thank you, Mr. Kraft.

16 That concludes the presentations for the Petitioners 17 and the Co-petitioners. At this time staff in 18 headquarters have any questions for Mr. Gunter, Mr.

19 Kamps, Ms. Lampert, Mr. Shadis, Ms. Bernie, or Mr.

20 Kraft?

21 MR. GOEL: This is Vijay Goel. I have a 22 question --

23 PARTICIPANT: Can't hear.

24 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Much louder, please.

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61 1 Electrical Engineering Branch from NRC. I have a 2 question for Mr. Gunter. I think you mentioned that 3 the Mark I unit needs to have a safety-installed 4 backup for loss of off-site power. I want to know 5 where did you get this information that they don't 6 have backup power when there is loss of off-site 7 power.

8 MR. GUNTER: This is for the fuel pool?

9 MR. GOEL: Yes.

10 MR. GUNTER: Well, what we have seen 11 typically is that the -- when there is a loss of off-12 site power that the fuel pool temperatures begin to 13 rise. So we are concerned that loss of off-site power 14 represents -- we also understand that when the -- when 15 there is a loss of off-site power that the -- that 16 there is a load shed to the spent-fuel pool cooling 17 system.

18 MR. GOEL: Yes.

19 MR. GUNTER: Is that correct?

20 MR. GOEL: That's true 21 MR. GUNTER: Well, the question is not 22 about immediacy. The concern is about prolonged 23 station blackout. So the power shed during a loss of 24 off-site power to the spent-fuel pool is a concern.

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62 1 mitigation is that you will make up water to the pool, 2 that you will simply let the water boil off and then 3 reconstitute the water levels in the pools as they 4 boil off.

5 Some of the supplemental information that 6 we want to get to you and we would also like you to 7 give us --

8 CHAIRMAN NELSON: I'm sorry to interrupt.

9 Was your question answered?

10 MR. GOEL: No.

11 MR. GUNTER: Restate the question, please.

12 MR. GOEL: My question is where did you 13 get the information that they don't have backup power?

14 MR. GUNTER: We have seen again, we've 15 seen that the load shed during a loss of off-site 16 power -- I'd have to provide you with the 17 documentation. It's our understanding that there is a 18 load shed to the spent-fuel pool in a loss of 19 off-site power and the mitigation that you're using 20 right now is to reconstitute the water levels in the 21 pool.

22 MR. GOEL: That's not correct.

23 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Okay, I don't want an 24 argument. The question has been asked and answered.

25 Any other questions from the staff?

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63 1 MR. MANOLY: This is Kamal Manoly. One of 2 the Petitioners mentioned the report of Dr. Robert 3 Kennedy on the fragility of the fuel pool. Can you 4 give me the report number, please?

5 MR. SHADIS: Yes, this is Raymond Shadis.

6 That was -- I quoted that. It is NUREG 1738, spent 7 fuel pool accident risk at decommissioning nuclear 8 power stations. And it was attachment 3 by Robert P.

9 Kennedy.

10 MR. MANOLY: Thank you.

11 MR. SHADIS: You're welcome.

12 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Thank you, Mr. Shadis.

13 Any other questions from the staff at headquarters?

14 (No response.)

15 Regions? Region 1?

16 MR. CLIFFORD: Nothing from Region I.

17 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Region II, do you have 18 any questions?

19 MR. CHRISTENSEN: No questions from Region 20 II.

21 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Region III.

22 MR. HILLS: No questions from Region III.

23 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Region IV?

24 MR. FARNHOLTZ: No questions from Region 25 IV.

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64 1 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Do licensees either 2 present in the room or on the line have any questions 3 for the Petitioners or Co-petitioners?

4 (No response.)

5 I'm hearing no questions from the 6 licensees, so we'll proceed.

7 MR. SHADIS: Mr. Chairman, this is Ray 8 Shadis.

9 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Yes, sir.

10 MR. SHADIS: A housekeeping detail. If I 11 may, you invited those persons who did not get to 12 present to provide written presentation. Is it 13 possible for NRC to establish a site for that on their 14 home page?

15 CHAIRMAN NELSON: I prefer that you send 16 them to our Petition Manager, Siva Lingam, please.

17 MR. SHADIS: All right. Thank you.

18 MS. LAMPERT: Will they be circulated?

19 Mary Lampert.

20 MS. MENSAH: This is Tanya Mensah for the 21 NRC. I'm the Petition Review Board Coordinator. Any 22 information that's provided as a supplement, either 23 during this call or in writing will be made publicly 24 available in ADAMS and it will be provided to all the 25 Petition Review Board members to consider before we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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65 1 make the initial recommendation.

2 CHAIRMAN NELSON: All right, is there any 3 -- that's a nice segue for my next question. Are 4 there any questions from anyone regarding the 2.206 5 process?

6 MR. GUNTER: This is Paul Gunter. So I 7 understand that Management Directive 8.11 does provide 8 us an opportunity to request an additional PRB meeting 9 and we've entered that request into the transcript. I 10 would like to just clarify that our request satisfies 11 establishing that second meeting?

12 MS. MENSAH: Yes, that's given to every 13 Petitioner. So after Siva Lingam informs the 14 Petitioners of the additional recommendations then 15 you'll be offered that opportunity. What I'm hearing 16 is you want that opportunity, so they will just have 17 to coordinate the date and time.

18 MR. GUNTER: Thank you. And at that 19 meeting that we as the Petitioner may defer our time 20 to the additional Co-petitioners who have requested to 21 speak, but have not been given that time at this 22 meeting?

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66 1 final. If you want to defer your time to other --

2 MR. GUNTER: Co-petitioners.

3 MS. MENSAH: -- speakers or 4 Co-petitioners, that's your choice. You would just 5 need to coordinate, communicate that with Siva Lingam.

6 MR. GUNTER: Let me clarify. Are you 7 saying that we can defer our time to other speakers, 8 not Co-petitioners?

9 MS. MENSAH: Well, if they're not 10 Co-petitioners, we consider them members of the 11 public. And of course with the Management Directive 12 only members of the public can observe the meeting or 13 ask questions on the 2.206 process. If they're 14 Co-Petitioners, as you can see what we've done today 15 with the other Co-petitioners.

16 MR. GUNTER: To the petition itself.

17 MS. MENSAH: To the petition.

18 MR. GUNTER: Right. Okay, so in order to 19 speak to the petition, a member of the public has to 20 be a Co-petitioner to that petition?

21 MS. MENSAH: Right.

22 MR. GUNTER: Thank you.

23 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Are there any other 24 questions regarding the 2.206 process?

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67 1 wonder if the Petition Review Board or any sub-agency 2 of NRC has a record of the results of previous 2.206 3 proceedings, so for example, has the Agency ever taken 4 action in response to a 2.206 petition or have they 5 all been rejected in the end?

6 MS. MENSAH: Well, the public website 7 contains a listing of all of the petitions that have 8 been accepted for review at this time. I can provide 9 the link to Siva and he can send that out if you want 10 to see that. But it's not -- just to clarify, it's 11 not a proceeding. It's the usual 2.206 process, not a 12 hearing process. That information is on the public 13 website.

14 MR. KAMPS: I would like to see that.

15 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Are there any other 16 questions?

17 MS. GOTSCH: Yes, this is Paula Gotsch for 18 Grandmothers, Mothers and More for Energy Safety. Why 19 is it that the process is you take the information, 20 you mull it over, and then you make a decision which 21 you then tell us about later?

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68 1 while the great deliberations are going on. Great 2 deliberations affect us all and we would love see your 3 process and hear what you all are saying and why you 4 come to the conclusions that you do.

5 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Yes, ma'am. I'd like to 6 address that. First of all, we will have another 7 meeting. We will prior to that meeting make a 8 preliminary determination. That will be communicated 9 to the Petitioners at which time you can provide 10 additional information supporting your position. We 11 will then take all of that information under 12 advisement.

13 We have to have a process to review that 14 information. We do that. We prepare a draft 15 Director's decision if the petition is accepted. That 16 draft Director's decision has our full rationale for 17 any of the conclusions that we reach, that's provided 18 to the Petitioners, to the licensees for public 19 comment. Those comments are then taken, reviewed and 20 a final determination is made.

21 So there are numerous opportunities for 22 you to be involved, for members to be involved with 23 the process we're undertaking.

24 Are there any other questions on the 25 process?

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69 1 MR. GUNTER: I just have one additional 2 question with regard to the timing of the preliminary 3 determination. Can you give us the time frame that 4 you operate under for providing that preliminary 5 determination and then -- I understand that you look 6 to make a final determination within 100 days, 120 7 days. Is that correct? So can you give us an idea of 8 the actual time frame that you proceed under?

9 MS. MENSAH: If the petition is accepted 10 for review, you will receive an acknowledgement letter 11 back from us that says from issuance of the date of 12 that letter there are 120 days to issue what we call 13 our proposed Director's decision and that's when you 14 have the opportunity to comment in writing. Prior to 15 that, the phase we're in right now is to try to decide 16 if it meets the criteria for review or not. And that 17 means we consider all the information that you 18 present, supplemental, as well as any information that 19 you later present in additional meetings with us.

20 Based on however long it takes us to get 21 to that process, we generally try to meet within a 22 week to make our initial recommendation from having 23 any teleconferences or public meetings with the 24 Petitioner. I can't commit to say that that will 25 happen in this case based on the volume of information NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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70 1 that the technical leads and the advisors have to 2 receive, but Siva, as your point of contact, will 3 certainly keep you advised, and if you have any 4 questions, you can call him as well to ask him about 5 the status.

6 MS. WARREN: Hello?

7 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Yes, we're here.

8 MS. WARREN: This is Barbara Warren. I'm 9 in New York. I'd like to ask about the regional 10 meetings. When might you make a decision on holding 11 regional meetings?

12 MS. MENSAH: That request as submitted in 13 the petition request has to be considered by the 14 Board. That will be conveyed back to the Petitioners 15 along with the initial recommendation.

16 MS. WARREN: So you haven't made a 17 decision with it, to hold regional meetings or not?

18 PARTICIPANT: That means don't hold your 19 breath.

20 MS. WARREN: You know, I just want to say 21 that we have significant issues just with the plants 22 that are in New York.

23 CHAIRMAN NELSON: I understand that, 24 ma'am.

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71 1 breath", we're not going to sit on our hands and delay 2 this process. A lot of information that's been 3 presented here needs to be reviewed by a number of 4 staff members. That is going to take some time. And 5 we're not going to hastily go through that.

6 We need to give the information due 7 diligence and time to review and we're going to do 8 that. We're not going to delay and we'll provide an 9 answer as soon as we can. And I believe Tanya has 10 described the process and any time you have a question 11 regarding where we are in that process, you can call 12 the Petition Manager, Mr. Lingam.

13 MS. WARREN: Okay, and is there an 14 opportunity for other people to put in comments on 15 this petition for the public to add to that?

16 MR. LINGAM: This is Siva Lingam, the 17 Petition Manager. You are welcome to send any 18 supplemental information by email to me. We will make 19 sure it has been reviewed by the Petition Review 20 Board.

21 MS. WARREN: I understand it's a very 22 difficult process given the enormity of the disaster 23 in Japan, but that is more weight to the seriousness 24 of what we're dealing with here and so we're very 25 anxious to have a proper decision on this matter.

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72 1 CHAIRMAN NELSON: We understand that, 2 ma'am.

3 MR. KEHLER: This is Randy Kehler with 4 Safe and Green Campaign for Vermont Yankee. I simply 5 want to ask is this process you've just described 6 considered an expedited process due to the fact that 7 this is a request for urgency enforcement? Do you 8 consider this an emergency?

9 CHAIRMAN NELSON: I believe we've already 10 addressed the immediate nature of the request and that 11 was discussed earlier in the discussion regarding the 12 status of the petition.

13 MR. KEHLER: My question is what is this 14 expedited process that you have described?

15 CHAIRMAN NELSON: We do not have at this 16 stage an expedited process. We'll proceed as fast as 17 we can, given the volume of information that we have 18 and the amount of information that we need to review.

19 MR. KEHLER: I understand that and I 20 appreciate that. I'm just asking whether under the 21 circumstances is this the normal process that you 22 would go through with due diligence or is this somehow 23 an expedited process?

24 CHAIRMAN NELSON: We do not have an 25 expedited process.

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73 1 MR. KEHLER: Okay, thank you.

2 MS. GOTSCH: This is Paula Gotsch again, 3 Grandmothers, Mothers and More for Nuclear Safety. I 4 just have to say issues raised by the speakers today 5 --

6 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Excuse me, ma'am --

7 MS. GOTSCH: -- seem so glaringly obvious 8 that there are really bad problems here. The fact 9 that you're making it sound like oh, this is 10 information that we have to look at carefully. Why 11 aren't you saying what we're saying? Why haven't you 12 looked at it carefully? It makes me have no 13 confidence in you.

14 If you were to say hey, yeah, we know 15 this, that might make me a little more confident. But 16 it's so grossly obvious to the village idiot down the 17 street that there are terrible problems here and the 18 fact that you now have to weigh these things that 19 you've been told is just very crass. Thank you.

20 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Thank you for your 21 comments. We're going to close the meeting at this 22 point. Mr. Gunter, Mr. Kamps, Ms. Lampert, Mr.

23 Shadis, Ms. Bernie, Mr. Kraft and all those who have 24 spoken today thank you very much for your time to 25 provide the NRC staff with clarifying information on NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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74 1 the petition you've submitted. Thank you all rest of 2 the co-petitioners.

3 PARTICIPANT: Nuclear Fuel Services, 4 Erwin, Tennessee, they've been contaminating for 54 5 years. They're killing an entire town and nobody 6 wants to talk about it.

7 CHAIRMAN NELSON: Before we close, does 8 the court reporter need any additional information for 9 the meeting transcript?

10 COURT REPORTER: Just the information that 11 we already talked about.

12 CHAIRMAN NELSON: With that, the meeting 13 is concluded. We'll be terminating the telephone 14 connections.

15 (Whereupon, at 4:17 p.m., the meeting was 16 concluded.)

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