ML22230A204

Tran-M780224: DOE-NRC Management Meeting

ML22230A204
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Issue date:	02/24/1978
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Tran-M780224
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. ~~U. , 10 S£CRE1/\RIA1 RECORDS NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION *.

IN THE MATTER OF:

DOE-NRC MANAGEMENT MEETING Place - Washington, D. C.

Date - Friday, 24 February 1978 Pages 1-34 Telephone:

(202) 347-3700 ACE* FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.

Official Reporten

,144 North Capitol Street Washington , D.C. 2000 l NATIONWIDE COVERAGE* DAILY

DISCLAIMER This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held on February 24, 1978 in the Commission's offices at 1717 H Street, N. t~., vJashington, D. C. The meeting was open to public attendance and observation. This transcript has not been revie\'1ed, corrected, or edited, and it may contain inaccuracies.

The transcript is intended solely for general informationa1 pu,rposes.

( As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is not part of the formal or informal reGord of decision of the matters discussed. Expressions of opinion in this transcript do not necessarily reflect final determinations or beliefs. No pleading or other paper may be filed with the Commission in any proceeding as the result of or addressed to any statement or argument contained herein, except as the Commission may authorize.

(

11 1

CR6490 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FRANK:mp NR 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3

4 5

6 DOE-NRC MANAGEMENT MEETING 7

8 9

10 Room 1130 1717 H Street, N. W.

11 Washington, D. c.

12 Friday, 24 February 1978 13 The Commission met, pursuant to notice, at 2 p.m.

14 BEFORE:

15 DR. JOSEPH M. HENDRIE, Chairman 16 RICHARDT. KENNEDY, Commissioner 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25

2 PROCEEDINGS.

CR6490

1. 1 frnak. 2 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: We are meeting this afternoon cmwl 3 on the happy occasion of the regular Department of Energy-

- 4 5

6 Nuclear Regulatory Commission management meeting under our interagency policy agreement.

(Slide.)

7 And we int.end, if we like what we hear, to sign 8 a couple of things and put in place a modified agr~ement which 9 we trust will allow us to continue to run smoothly together 10 on the things we have to do.

11 I trust W;e won't have to sign one of these.every 12 time we meet.

- 13 14 15 MR. MYERS:

• Every time we change departments.

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

1,1'..R. MYERS :

That seems .fair.

I hope that' s no longer a factor.

16 CHAiru,JAN HENDRIE: I hope so, too.

17 I don't know if you want to make any comments.

18 Then we will let the program proceed.

19 l-1'..R. MYERS: This is my meeting with the NRC~

A 20 I have met with our people and find that we have

--~- **-------------

21 I think sone

• very good working relationships -_*going with the 22 NRC people and I want to be sure from my standpoint and our

- 23 24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

DOE people that we are going to do everything we can to keep it going that way.

25 I think we ought to get on with the meeting and

3 cmw2 sign that historical document.

2 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Good.

3 MR. GOSSICK: Mr. Chairman, I will just turn it

- 4 5

6 over to Mr .. Dircks, who has been really the day-to-day project officer in bringing this to the point where we are today, working with Mr. Barber and the other people on the DOE side 7 of the house.

8 Bill?

9 MR. DIRCKS: I think I will start right in with 10 the b'riefing.

11 I think Mr. Barber is the first one, from the 12 Department of Energy.

- 13 14 15 He's going to give us somewhat of a historical background on this thing.

Bob.

16 MR. BARBER:. Thank you.

17 {Slide.)

18 This gives you some brief background which most 19 of you are probably aware of.

20 'When AEC was split, the NRC became responsible for 21 regulatory functions and also for research and technical 22 assistance in support of those functions and ERDA promotional

- 23 24 ce-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 functions, but more importantly for this meeting to provide services and facilities to* conduct NRC programs.

And in March 11th of 1 77 ERDA and NRC signed

4 cmw3 1 policy agreements which we are currently operating under~-.

2 The DOE Organization Act, put in place this last 3 fall, _brings us: up to the DOE-NRC memo which we are going to 4 sign today.

5 (Slide~)

6 This graphically shows the splitting of the atom 7 and the formation of ERDA, NRC and then DOE.

8 (Slide.)

9 In implementing the ERDA-NRC policy agreement both 10 agencies*set up organizations, task forces were formed in 11 both agencie~. and within the ERDA-DOE, the 0-ffice of Nuclear 12 Safety Coordination was established.*

13 The t.ask groups implementing the requirements and 14 conducting the major interagency actions and within DOE a 15 focal point was established within the Ev:office of Nuclear 16 Safety Coordination.

17 The status of this activity which has been going 18 on since last spring, summer; we had our first management 19 meeting with ERDA last September and about four task group 20 meetings have been held, and 20 actions are underway between 21 the two agencies.

22 (Slide.)

23 The next viewgraph shows about six or eight 24 of the major activities between the task groups.

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25 We are going to hear about the status of these

5 cmw4 1 a little later from Mro Be:ckwith on that, so I won't go over 2 those in detail at this time.

3 (Slide.)

- 4 5

6 Ollie of the key items is what we call signatory requirements which really is a documentary, of how do you get to all the tiered doc.uments and how do we do business at the 7 lower level.

8 A key item here.is the interagency or programmatic 9 agreement which will define specific tasks to be accomplished, 10 and then each agency within itself would have procedural 11 agreements and instructions, to ins*truct the* Staff and offices 12 on the conduct of the work.

13 We have work going on in all these areas at the 14 present time.

15 (Slide.)

16 That brings us up to the DOE-NRC memo.

17 What we did was take the March 11th ERDA policy 18 agreement and convert it to DOE and provide for DOE access to 19 the ACRS.

20 Those are the basic changes that have taken place.

21 There are many future act~ons here required.

22 We have agreements, procedure and instructions,

- 23 24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 as I mentioned earlier, which have to be prepared and we are working on them at the present time.

So that the next viewgraph gives you a brief outsid

6 cmwS of the 10 major items in the DOE-NRC MOU.

2 (Slide.)

3 I'm not going to read each one, but it provides 4 for policy planning, how does the NRC request work and how 5 does the DOE request the work from NRC and so on.

6 It's a comprehensive document but we have a rather 7 sophisticated detailed interface.

8 So at this point, I think it would be appropriate 9 if we were to proceed to signing the document before you JO proceed further into the agenda.

11 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I was expecting to hear the 12 whole presentation before we signed.

13 We seem to be rushing precipitously ahead, but 14 on the assurance of Staff that .it has been carefully researche 15 okay. We are signed .and sealed, so you can let us know 16 the bad news ..

17 MRo DIRCKS: We have Mr. Beckwith to take us 18 through what we have been accomplishing over the past six 19 months.

20 I think we might as well keep it moving.

I 21 MR. BECKWITH: Mr. Secretary, Mr. Chairman, 22 coordination activi~ies will cover those items which were 23 brought up in the first semiannual meeting last September.

24 (Slide.)

ce-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 The first of these is joint use facilities~

7 cmw6 1 As you see from *the chart,. this area has been 2 resolved for '79, and ag~eements are being negotiated and 3 written at the present time.

4 The questions really devolve down to two points s on that.

6 First, who funds it.

7 8

As I say, this wasresolved with DOE funding all of the joint use in '79 and NRC budgeted for all of our dedi-9 cated facilities.

10 The two controller:brga.nizations *are examining 11 th4"s topic and a jointly acceptable ag*reement we believe will 12 be forthcoming.

- 13 14 15 The second question is which facilities are we really talking about.

We have information and again coordination going o 16 on that, in regards to those items which will come up in 17 Fiscal Year 'BO.

18 The second point that was brought up before, 19 there has been resolution of, at the point whea::e we had a 20 problem.

21 That was Sandia, and again a long-range agreement 22 is being negotiated for foreign nationals, at various other

- 23 24

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25 DOE weapons facilities.

The third item is general purpose project funding.

Again, it's been resolved.

8 cmw7 1 We had a list which was jointly reviewed by both 2 agencies last Septemb<:=r.

3 We found .there were some items on there which were 4 really project related rather than general purpose and those 5 NRC in fact did fund.

6 The rest of the GPP is being funded by DOE 7 presently.

8 Again, these will be covered in the controllers' 9 agreement. -

10 The final topic, which has been completely 11 resolved, is with regards to printing and distribution, whethe 12 it's done by NRC here or done by the field laboratmries

- 13 14 15 themselves.

Suitab~e arrangements have been made on that, so that thi.s matter is now completely closed.

16 (Slide.)

17 One of the big items as far as organization and ou 18 standardization of procedures was to come up with a new 19 methodology of placing work with DOE from NRC.

20 Obviously, some 77 percent of our dollars flow 21 through DOE laboratoris.

22 I think the chart here is self-explanatory.

23 Mr. Gossick signed and published the 1102 document 24 as of today jointly with the MOU.

ce-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 It was one document which was fully coordinated

9 cmw8 1 in fact by both ~gencies.

2 It's a unilateral NRC document because it's one 3 of our instructions.

- 4 5

6 However, I think some 350 copies go to DOE and we feel it will be very beneficial and useful to your people as well.

7 I might point out that almost all organizations 8 internal to the DOE and NRC were involved in the writing of 9 this and we tried to cover the whole waterfront as much as 10 we could, in this area.

11 The next chart will give you an idea of those 12 items which are covered in the 1102 bulletin.

- 13 14 15 (Slide.)

If there is no further questions on this, Mr.

Yates will be your neJ::t presenter.

16 Thank you.

17 MR. YATES: If there are no questions, we will 18 go aheado 19 (Slide.)

20 As Chuck mentioned, the placement of work, on

~

21 a day-to-day ; basis agreement has been signed.

22 Procedures are being developed for placement of

- 23 24 ce-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 work within DOE also, a similar kind of document.

Now; that's a day-to-day basis.

On a long-term basis, we need an institutional

10 planning process, .and I want to give a little background on l

cmw9 2 that.

To begin *with, I want to mention how we have 3

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organized to develop policy.in this area.

(Slide.)

We have established a field of laboratory 6

7 coordination council headed by the Under Secretary.

~~ership of the Assistant Secretaries and the 8

9 Director of the Office of Energy Research and others, 10 managers of field offices also attend the meetings.

11 The purpose as ;Stated is to advise the Under 12 .Secretary in the established policy and coordination of I

- 13 14 15 activities with respect to R&D installations.

(Sli*de.)

There's examples of some of the functions 16 performed by the.FLCC.

17 The first one should read facility reporting 18 relations to Assistant Secretaries.

19 The last item is the long-range facility 20 utilization plans, and in that area a guidance memo has been 21 issued on February 14th by the Under Secretary, addressing a number of items.

22 23 (Slide.)

24 But it does make a commitment to the institutiona Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 planning process, and this is based primarily on the results

11 cmwlOi 2

of the first cycle of institutional planning within ERDA.

(Slide.)

3 Basic objectives, supplement the existing 4 laboratory headquarter contracts with an annual opportwiity 5 for exchange of views between the labs and headquarters 6 people.

7 Annual review and basicueans for multiyear 8 guidance for the laboratories.

9 For those that are not familiar with the DOE 10 laboratories, they number about 50 plants and laboratories, 11 100,000 people, eight government-operated laboratories with 12 about 1000 people, eight operations offices, two projects offices with about SOOOpeople, so we have in addition, le 13 there are power administration and other activities in the 14 15 field, but it's a substantial field organization.

16 The institutional planning process, that I'm 17 going to go on to discuss-, address multi,progrant facilities 18 primarily.

19 Now, the institutional planning process overall 20 will address plans for all facilities.

21 (Slide.)

22 The basic responsibility for institutional plannin 23 falls on the Assistant Secretary, to which the laboratory 24 or plant or plan or facility is assigned.

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25 All laboratories, multiprogram -- all facilities

12 cmwll are assigned at this point except for several which are still 2

reporting to the Under Secretary.

3 MR. MYERS: Four are still reporting to me.

4 MR.*YATES; Four. The.!Laboratorr has the basic 5

responsibility for the preparation of the institutional plan 6

which is prepared on an annual basis.

7 Coordination is handled through the Assistant

• 8 Secretary of£ice.

9 Participating laboratories are the eight multi-10 program *1abora tortes.*

11 I think most of you are familiar with them.

12 I will read them off, Argonne, Brookhaven, 13 Oak Ridge, Lawrence .Berkeley Lab, Lawrence Livermore Lab, 14 LAS!,l. S&;\lldia and *::~aci£ic .Northwest *I:iab.

15 In addition, there are four others, HEDL, 16 Engineering Development Lab, Savannah l:ti.ver Lab, Ames .and 17 Idaho National Engineering Lab, participating in this next 18 cycle of institutional plans.

19 The content format is similar to

• last year's 20 plans schedule.

I 21 I wouldJ.like to go on to .the next chart and then 22 come back to this one.

23 (Slide.)

24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. The schedule has been changed substantially since 25 last*-.*year.

13 crnwl2 Last year we had essentially two, three versions of the institutional plan, two drafts and one final this 2

3 year, will be one draft and one final.

.4 The cycle is shown there with d~aft plans in 5

April and final plans in August.

6 (Slide.)

7 Uses. The plants have multiple uses *.

Use by the laboratory in presenting his 8

9 programs to the visitors, use by headquarters for program 10 division for planning the programs of the *1abs.

11 These by DOE and NRC management, in terms of 12 controlling -and reviewing the placement of work.

Now, concerning procedures, the formal ~mmediate 13 14 .interim management directive establishing the procedures for 15 institutional planning will be issued shortly, or within 16 the Department of Energy.

17 Field operations offices will have a major 18 responsibility, as delegated by the Assistant Secretaries' 19 implementation of the institutional plans, and to summarize 20 briefly the status of last year's institutional planning 21 process, the procedures worked very well.

Bob Barber's office worked to collate planning 22 23 information from the various labs, to present it to NRC, 24 and then have -- then ~eed back that kind of guidance to Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 the lab, as well as NRC dealt directly with the labs.

14 cmwl3 l You may expect that to continue in the '78 plans.

2 In addition, we are asking for a little more 3 planning information for each laboratory in the '78 plan.

4 Are there any question~7 5 MR. MYERS: Let me say a little about this.

6 Those laboratories are such a large part of our 7 operation, we put a special -amount cf attention into the 8 management aspects,. and have decided.to have the laboratories 9 in general reporting to the Assistant* Secretary who has

• the.

10 primary responsibility in the particular area.

11 As you know, we have had some of the laboratories 12 whose *prime mission .is-defense and they report to our defense

• 13 14 15 programs

• We .have others* who:-:have prime missions *in other elements of energy and they report to a fair number -- a 16 fair number report to Bob Thorne.

17 Four of them, as I said, report to me.

18 We in the Department are developing a long-range 19 strategy of where we want to be many years from now, in the 20 energy business, and then backing that up are what I call 21 long-range plans, and what are here called institutional plans, which deal with about five years' projection forward.

22 23 That is the activity now being generated by the 24 labb~atories and gives us a base of the manpower and Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 facilities that are requia:ed to carry out these kind of r::<>:;,-,

15 cmwl4 l programs.

2 And then finally you break back down from that 3 in the budget, .which is a - two-, three-year

• kind of budgeting

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we are getting into now, for administration.

So when we get our total strategy, long-range .

6 plan and budget elements put together/ we have a flow of 7 information that covers the whole thing.

8 As each of these specific tasks get developed 9

• by NRC and approved into the plan, that will become the 10 baseline in the one*or two years ahead, then we :feed into 11 that overall .institutional planning, where*. do we think the 12 whole structure of laboratories will :90 iri that longer-

- 13 14 15

-range area, :so I think we *will have *a plan where we c~ give you a *pretty good picture of the capabilities of the laboratories, their projections for the future., how tight

'<)1;;

16 they-are going to be as far as their ability*to carry out 17 various tasks, and will give us probably also a much better 18 picture of what kindoof institutional planning in terms of 19 upgrading of facilities,~*maintenance of facilities and 20 things of that nature we*need in a particular area.

21 So it's our objective to get into that mode by 22 about the budget planning cycle of this summer, and I think 23 everything is on track, to make that happen.

24 MR~ THORNE :- I might mention, until that I s Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25. actually done,*we have placed a ceiling on all the laboratorie

16 cmwlS to kind of curtail their growth until we* can go through the l

sorting out process to see where the strengths and capabilitie 2

~

are.

MR. BECKWITH: To fit into your institutional 4

planning, Mr. S~cretary, of course will require information 5

.6 from NRC

• 7 (Slide.)

• a We have developed the information and*--weewill start a very detailed ievel for our current fiscal year *

.9 This chart shows our latest proryections which 10 11 will be placed at your labs.

12 This is knQWil datao

- *13 14 15 Data at what we call the financia.l level or

• task level detail.

These have been provided to the operations 16 planners and headquarters as well as data *for '79.

overall, about $130 million is known funding, 17 18 along with $30 million more, of still undetermined,funds, 19 where they may go to a commercial firm or to *DOE during 20 the next seven months;. *.*

Of course, this is a wise thing; there have 21 22 been several changes since the first of February.

23 For example, NMSS has raised that amount at 24 Albuquerque and Oak Ridge, just since this chart was made, Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 on 1 Feb:ruary.

_J

17 crnwl6 1 The bulk as you can see are four locations 2 in Idaho, Albuquerque, Oak Ridge and Chicago.

3 Also note that our Office of Research has the

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largest amount of these.

total.

Some 82 percent of the total or $104 million in 6

7 .or. Murley will provide greater detail .on 8 research's* specific profile. in just a few minutes, sir.

9 Now, changes in this profile fer NRC are not 10 expecte~ to be radical in the next few years.

11 However, as advanced reactor or alternate fuel 12 cycle work, .wa13t.etinanagem~ntc,and other amas become more

• 13 14 15 definitive; the change of course is possible.

It's still too early for us to tell :now, but our work will go,of course,to the most appropriate location.

16 We do expect some overall growth, in our funding 17 in the next few years.

18 (Slide.)

19 On the '79* chart, the picture is 1:>retty much 20 the same, except for a large increase by research.at Idaho.

21 The work there is expected to climb by some 43 percent to about $39 million.

22 23 Mostly for LOFT operations*, second core and so 24 forth.

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25 Again, I. will c;tefer to Dr. Murley on a iater<r

18 crnwl7 l presentation.

2 This is pretty much the same as*the total amount 3 projected for each of the operations offices except for

- 4 5

Idaho.

It's still too early to oompare totals by year.

Such a large .additional amount for 1 79 is still 6

7 undetermined, much more so than in 1 78.*

8 Also, like you, our budget is still to be 9 approved by Congress.

10 NMSS as* an example has projected $3_.5 million, 11 not $2.5 as shown on this chart, for their waste work at 12 San Francisco.

- 13 14 15 They know again $1.6 million is undetermined but they know it will.go to ahDOE location, .in addition to the funds shown.

16 This data is *being coordina tedc:m.+/-rectly by our 17 personnel, in our program offices, sir, with your field 18 office managers on a day~to-day basis.

19 Of course, it should be reflected in*their 20 latest projections which will appear.in your institutional 21 plans and your budget progess~ for FY 'SO, as an example.

22 As I said before, overall some 77 percent of

- 23 24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

NRC's program support funds go go to DOE.

(Slide.)

25 I will now give you some projections, sir, by

19 crnwl8 1 our five major offices, as the off.ice director.shave made 2 them, out through the planning phase.

3 These will show the trends.

4 They are .. not scrubbed, I might note,* and haven't 5 been approved, of course, by the Commission as such by anyone 6 else further up theline.

7 They represent. the office directors' assessment.

8 of current needs.

9 For NRR, their technical assistance is to deal 10 with the short-term inputs into the licensing process.

11 No exper.imental studies or facilities are 12 involved.

- 13 14 15 About 50 percent of these funds shown on the bottom line that goes to DOE is for light water reactor safety work.

16 Some 25 percent is for siting and environmental 17 matters, and the balance is for safety and advanced reactor 18 work.

19 As you see, change is noted, the growth in the 20 numbers of operating reactors and inflation account for the 21 increase.

The percentage to DOE is again relatively 22

• . 23 el 24 saw in the earlier charts.

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25

20

1. 2 (Slide.)

FP/fml CR6490 2 For standards development, -again the projections are 3

quite stable. In fiscal '77 and '78, the substantial portion 4

of their::-work::bad been ._,_, performed at Oak Ridge and Pacific North-0 5 west.

6 There is a growing portion now being done by Sandia 7

as well, which picks up in '78. We expect th.ese proportions.

8 to continue.

9 LASL, Mound, ANL and BNL are also tasks for some 10 effort but, of course, at a lower level. The overall per-11 centage, as you will note on the chart drops to about 60 percen in '79 and it wilLcontinue at that level out through '84.

13 I think the percentage for '78 was about 70 percent.

14 (Slide.)

15 For I&E, DOE work represents an analysis of samples 16 and independent measurements. Some 90 percent of these funds 17 are for those two categories. The workload again is primarily 18 spread through 5 locations with some minor tasking to 19 approximately 6*other laboratories, New Brunswick, Idaho, E&E, 20 EGG, Argonne and Brookhaven.

21 The work is depending on the number of operating re-

- 22 actors or number of licensees. The figures allow for some inflation.

23 24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

For NMSS, this is a broken chart here. As you see.

25 We show the total by the top line. It is very stable. And

2]

fm2 four breakouts are shown. Of the two subjective breakouts 2 on this chart, waste management shows a downward trend. Here 3 we have a dramatic increase in our total funds in '77 and '78.

4 About 70 percent of our funding is placed with your laboratori s 5 in this area.

6 However, as the criteria are settled, the percentage 7 will drop to about 40 percent in :1984. In safeguards,

• about 15 8 percent of our current dollars are placed with DOE at present, 9 but this will climb to 40 percent by 1981, so DOE work will 10 increase, even though the overall NRC program will decrease.

11 The two remaining areas are projected again to be 12 fairly stable and predictable.

13 (Slicle.)

14 Uranium fuel cycle program support, at all 15 laboratories throughout the period.- In the area of spent 16 fuel storage, again almost all of our contract dollars are 17 placed with DOE. We expect about 90 percent of these funds, 18 although they are small in total, to continue to go to the lab 19 atory.

20 Overall I think 58 percent of,our '78 funds went to 21 DOE for our office, NMSS, Nuclear Material Safety and 22 Safeguard, and it will continue at about this level according 23 to our current projections.

24 (Slide.)

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25 For research my last chart in this series, here are comparable projections for the Office qf Research.

22 fm3 This represents, of course, the bulk of our funding, 2 which is placed with the laboratories. That in~ludes the majo 3 facilities funding,* such as for LOFT.

4 Now, Dr. Murley will next speak to this area in 5 detail, gentlemen.

6 Thank you.

7 MR. MYERS: You are carrying it about two .years fur er 8 than we are. That is great. That is a good help to us.

9 MR. THORNE: I am curious about very little growth 10 beyond '80, probably not even a cost.;..of-living gross. Does 11 that reflect anything in /your program, no real new initia-12 tives?

13 MR. MYERS; You mean in research?

14 MR *.THORNE: Really in the overall. They all kind 15 of flatten out beyond '80.

16 MR. GOSSICK: I think that is probably true.

17 We can't foresee what other kinds of problems might crop up.

18 MR. MYERS: They are projecting low inflation.

19 MR.. THORNE; Very .low.

20 MR. GOSSICK: Is inflati:6n , cranked *into this?

21 These are uninflated dollars?

22 MR. ~ECKWITH: These are uninflated dollars in 23 most instances.. A couple of of fices such as I&E and SD did 24 use some inflation in their figures, sir. It wasn"t that con-Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 sistent.

23 fm4 MR. MURLEY: Research dollars are in fiscal 1 80 2 dollars.

3 Can I have the next slide?

4 (Slide.)_

.5 ILwould like to remind you that the research that we 6 do is not developmental research. Rather it is to confirm 7 the adequacy and the conservatisms in our regulatory decisions, 8 so we are not really out to develop equipment or hardware 9 processing.

10 This schematic figure shows the flow of how the 11 research function works in NRC. Across the top line you see 12 the scope of our responsibilities, ranges from nuclear power 13 plants all the way to waste disposal licensing. Through the 14 licensing process, then, there are technical ques*tions that 15 arise, and some of these need research information. The re-16 search needs are then communicated from the licensing staff 17 to the research staff. We manage to contract for the research, 18 and then feed back ; to the licensing. groups data in the area of 19 reactor safety, analysis, safeguards and environmental research 20 (Slide.}

21 This represents a breakdown of where our research 22 dollars go. As you.can see, about.84 percent of our research

- 23 dollars go to DOE laboratories.

24 I might add, that these numbers represent an update Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 from Chuck's last chart because we have cranked into these

24 fm5 7. 9 million of undesignated funds, that he did not have.

2 Nearly all of which goes to DOE laboratories. We just haven 1 t 3 put that money out in the field yet, but we intend to. So 4 about half of our .projects, slightly over half of our project

.5 go to laboratories., but the bulk of those, because of large 6 facilities like LOFT and the power burst facility in Idaho, 84 7 percent of ou:i:: mo.ney. goes to that.

8 I might add :that the other. government agencies line 9 i tern,. like the Geological Survey, NOAA and Naval Research 10 Laboratory.

11 (Slide.)

12 Except for Idaho, we are a small £ractimn:. of any 13 one DOE laboratory. The Idaho-~ at Idaho, we are about

'f:

14 30 percent of EG&Gs responsibility.

15 Now, I hasten to add that the figures for Idaho 16 do not include the Naval work or the Chem plant work 17 but they do include all.of EG&Gs responsibilities. We are 18 30 percent and next year when NRC assumes operating responsi-19 bility for.LOFT, we will jump close to $60 million. It will 20 be nearly half of the Idaho, EG&G Laboratory.

21 So there are some problems. Lest you think every-22 thing is sweetness, and roses, there are some problems that ere 23 up .and I think I should talk about those just briefly.

24 Primarily at Idaho. They deal with adequate building space Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 for our research programs, and general plant.projects, narnely,

25 fm6 adequate money, to maintain;PBF* and LOFT and the roof and 2 the building out there and so forth.

• I am satisfied-*. the probl m 3

is being worked. I don't mean to indicate that this is a probl m 4

that is not being resolved, but it is there, and I think you 5 ought to know about it.

6 (Slide.)

7 MR. THORNE: I think we did do. a very good job of 8 protecting their interest. - When it came right down to the 9

specific little bits and pieces, we didn't do bad.

10 MR. MYERS; Charlie talked to me about this. I 11

• call it spares,-what do you call it, Charlie?

12 MR. WILLIAMS: Inventory.

13 MR.MYERS: Inventory.

14 We have a real job there of support parts and 15 things to keep i t going.

16 MR. THQ3NE: Charlie and I talked about that yester-17 day. We have to find a different way of managing that in-18 ternally than we have done .before.

19 MR. LIVERMAN: That was a particularly tough year 20 with the changing from ERDA to DOE, and so forth.

21 (

MR. MURLEY: We simply do not have the kind of 22 budgetary flexibility to fix roofs and things like that.

23 MR. MYERS: That is another area we know we have 24 not done well in in the last three years. That wasn

• t ce-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 the transition to DOE that did it.

_J

26 FM7 There has been a problem ?f what amounts to 2

-~~~-----

priorities, to basic plant; maintenance .;activities. We have a 3 .major study under way to look at that whole picture.

4 MR. MURLEY: This chart shows the research trends 5 through fiscal '84. There were two points I would like to 6 make.

7 One.* is clear, with Idaho. We are jumping from about 8 $40 million this year to about 59 million next year and 62 9 million, and then it levels off through '81, '82. and we 10 show it tailing down. That is primarily because the heavy 11 program in LOFT .and PBF began tb:~.ta+/-l:.. aown::::. somewhat.

12 I must admit we are trying to look through a cloudy

• 13 14 15 crystal ball when we are looking "that far, but we do, in fact, intend that they do trail down.

The other point I would like *to make is with regard 16 to Sandia. That increase, that is projected, is mainly as 17 a result of our assumption of some growth in the advance 18 reactor safety research programs.,. starting in 1

80. The advance 19 reactor program is mainly our breeder and gas-cooled safety 20 research program and they are now in a flat, kind of holding 21 pattern, and for the last year and we projected for.fiscal '79.

22 'I'his depends entire.ly on what DOE does, of course, and so if 23 there are no increases in DOE's advanced reactor development, 24 then our safety research will not grow accordingly, but Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 as far as the assumed growth in Sandia, it is primarily the

27 fm8 result of the advanced program.

2 That is all I have.

3 4 MR. BARBER: We thought it would be important for 5 DOE to present-to NRC and give you some feel for our projectio s 6 of NRC assistance to DOE in the next.* 3 /or 4 years.

• ---r 7 So this table summarizes the current situation 8 and the projection. In '81, ib:.:is:i.kind:::of vague, because 9 they depend a great deal on the budget cycle in projects and 10 facilities, but as you can see, there are a fair number of 11 safety reviews, studies and transportation cask~. reviews that 12 are corning down the road from which we will ask NRC for advice I* 13 14 and assistance on.

The only one that I know of, where there is maybe 15 some problem, is in the transportation cask reviews. We have 16 some kind of a schedule problem. We will have to work that 17 one out.

18 (Slide.)

19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Before you go away from that one, 20 what kind of things are on the facility safety review?

21 Do you remember some of the items?

22 MR. BARBER: Yes. The next two viewgraphs will 23 cover that. There is a list of facilities. You can see there 24 is some weapons laboratories, fuel laboratories, the Navy Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 facilities, SHE, A-1-W and so on.

28 fm9 Some are new, some* are modifications. There is 2 quite a variety.

3 MR. DIRCKS: Bob, the '79 facility requirements, 4 is that tied in all with the mFCK *::~T work? The National 5 Fuel Cycle Evaluation work? We keep hearing after October 6 of '79 we will be faced with some more work coming over 7 from DOE.

8 MR. BARBER: I have another viewgraph on studies, 9 and I think that is related to the international fuel 10 cycle work. It is related to the nonproliferation. A whole 11 bunch of them.

12 (Slide.)

• 13 14 15 This is a continuation of the facilities safety review, which project out a little further, and again, some are licensed, the high level waste, most of them are unlicensed.

16 The safety test facilities, fast reactor facilities and some mo e 17 Navy cores coming down the road.

18 (Slide.)

19 I think this is What you were referring to, Bill.

20 These are what we call facility, studies, wherein 21 SRR, when you produce, there is no site per se for these things 22 but so-called preliminary information safety documents produced

- 23 and it asks for NRC advice in regard to the license problem I

i 24 in these facilities.

!Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

I 25 Again it covers the gamut. Heavy water reactors,

29 fml0 temperature gas cooled, liquid metal fast breeder, gas cooled.

2 There is a wide variety.

3 MR.MYERS:*:'** Is this part of the UO-2 study?

4 MR. THORNE: Gas cooled and pr.obably .temperature 5 gas cooled reactor.

6 .MR. MYERS: This will be in support of that, to look 7 at the safety:'i'B'Slle,- as we go down the pike on that?

8 MR. THORNE: My guess is i t will be more than that.

9 Probably another half-a-dozen more.

10 MR. BARBER: We checked with your staff for this lis ,

11 primarily.

12 MR. DIRCKS: r*think i t is important. As we go into

• 13 14 15 the '80 budget cycle, this stuff has to be found.

MR. BARBER:

We will do that.

We have to do the best we can. Okay.

16 (Slide.)

17 _These are what we call information submittals, 18 mainly they pertain to facilities that NRC or AEC Regulatory 19 has reviewed in the past and there is some modification or 20 change coming up. We thought *it important to keep you apprised .

21 of the activity.. Again there .is a wide gamut in production 22 reactor, Purex reprocessing plant at Richland, Brookhaven, 23 research reactor and high level waste facility at Savannah 24 River.

Ace-Federal Reporter~, Inc.

25 If there are no questions, that concludes this

30 fmll 1 part of this presentation actually.

2 MR. LIVERMAN: Our two agencies have an enormous 3 amount of reaction commenting on EPA proposed regulations. in

• 4 5

6 the radiation.area.

things.

In fact, I would guess, Bill, they are together almost .every day in the week.. on those sorts of We are both deeply involved now in commenting on EPA's 7 proposed p*lutonium regulations, so there is a lot of interactio 8 going on on that basis all the time but never gets ground into 9 this,but works most of the time I think very smoothly.

10 MR. DIRCKS: We have a SO-minute target and I think 11 we just about .made it.

12 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I think you did very well. Very

• 13 14 15 well organized. I am surprised and delighted to see these things run on time.

Let me. -ask a question about the final -- just re-16 mind me again about the ACRS linkage now that we have agreed 17 to. It is one in which you have access to the ACRS 18 MR. DIRCKS: Generally through the staff, but with 19 provision for direct access when required with information 20 given to the staff., that the access is being made. I think 21 we have all agreed on that.

22 MR. BARBER: . Yes. That is in the MOU that you 23 have before you.

24 Generally we expect to go to the staff, and then ce-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 the staff would probably exercise the option, but there may be

31 fm1 some rare occasions where we need ACRS advice, so we have pro-12 2 vided, through the proper channels, for that'.

3 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Typically, the Committee will 4 need staff support if i t is going to do*anything of any sub-5 stance, and that is provided for. Well, I think that the 6 Committee has worked hard to produce an agreement that takes 7 the recent document into account,* i t touches i t up. in a few a places.where i t seemed to be needed.

9 My impression, I haven't been around for a couple 10 of years. My impression is things are running a lot better now 11 than they did in the beginning.

12 MR. GOSSICK: Indeed.

• 13 14 15 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: So, I think we have got a good document as a basis, and the implementation documents that fall below that then are *in the process of various stages, and 16 seem to be doing well.

17 r::think we just have to recognize, that in human af-18 fairs, things aren't always going to run smoothly and we are 19 bound* to come across glitches of various kinds and we just have 20 to put our heads together and fix them.

21 I think.in terms of the formal agreement between 22 us, we are unlikely to do better than.this in. the near term.

- 23 I am very pleased with it, as a matter of fact, with the inter-24 agency. The interagency group has done a fine job, in Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 sorting out these things.

32 fml3 MR. LIVERMAN: I think both of the staffs need to be 2

congratulated for the way in which the LOFT thing finally 3

shook itself out. I hope the Commission is pleased. The last 4

three years of progress has really been major strides forward, 5

I think.

6 CHAIRMAN .HENDRIE: I had to assure Congressman Mille 7

the other week that we were glad to have it.

8 So I am on record now.

9 You have taken over what, half of the construction 10 sites, what would have been called construction sites in: '79 11 and I guess we. will get the whole thing in . 1 80.. Along about th 12 start of fiscal '80, ;' we will hear the deep sigh of relief

• 13 14 15 coming up from Germantown and other places.and I will know what that is, but I think it is work:i,.ng pretty good.

very pleased with it.

I am 16 MR. LIVERMAN: Ever1 the:> preliminary results confirm 17 that.

18 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: The ~iroents that have been nm thus 19 far have been enornously valuable and we are nCM getting on tcm-ard the 20 nuclear runs which are going to be a little expensive.

21 MR. MYERS: I had a very good review, in-depth 22 review of these things last week, and it is looking good.

23 I sure saw the problems that were involved over the last 24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

few years, but it has really come on line beautifully.

25 Joe, I think just the one comment I would make as

/

33

\

fml4 a newcomer.._-in this business, we have got certain things that 2

are clear responsibilities of each of-the agencies but we 3

also have a clear responsibility to work very closely and I 4

want to be sure if you see anything going off-line in that 5

area, give me a call and I will do the same thing with you, 6

?tnd we want to be sure if there is any major issues that come u 7

betweei;i now and the next formal scheduled meeting, get ahold of 8

me and we will give whateve~ support we can.

9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: We won't hesitate to get together 10 and get them straightened out before they become real annoy-11 ances and difficulties in getting out the program.

12 Do you have anything?

• 13 14 15 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

fascinated to thin]s No. Just to say I was back over that histori*cal summary, and*

note that the institutional framework that exists now for an 16 effective interagency relationship reflects the very hard 17 work that a lot of people have done over the past two or three 18 years.

19 It seems to me right now it is just about as good 20 as you are ever going to get, that kind of relationship.

21 That is what really counts*. An opportunity to talk to each 22 other and make sure the :i;,roblems get solved before they get 23 unmanageable.

24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

MR. THORNE: I think one of the real contributing 25 factors in the good working relationship has been Charlie

34 frn Williams, shaping up the LOFT project and generally having a 15 2 much better working relationship with NRC than existed be-3 fore.

- I 5

4 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

MR. GOSSICK:

I can attest to that.

I can attest to that as well.

6 MR. MYERS: Careful, he's sitting out there in 7 the audience.

8 MR. GOSSICK: He gave us a tough time getting 9 started but it 1 s been useful.

10 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I think that is great. Okay.

11 Thank you.

.1 12 13 14 eluded.)

(Whereupon, at 2: 59 p.m., the meeting was con-15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

- 23 24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25