ML20202B360
| ML20202B360 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 02/03/1998 |
| From: | Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards |
| To: | |
| References | |
| ACRS-T-3025, ASB-300-129, NUDOCS 9802110196 | |
| Download: ML20202B360 (100) | |
Text
'
I
,..)
l
[
.l,,.,;.l-
- h, UN'f
\\ '
',. ; ' y OflA m a w L e.
?'
.. -.~
L
.., T,
.7 "{ { 3 f9 y gy,:
': j-
- f,.
Q '.., ',,: n..'l,
,[ '..,'.. ; { [.. I A [ % ; M
.,., % w.g.,
1 (.
J
- y u
4_
' \\
.3
/.' 'h.. (. ; ~ ~
x n
....M.4 -
' 3 i, e *.. ' ' f'. 4 yy' c "d,s, 1.
'lT*-
., 3 "g. 1.-
3 g t y' Q _
1,.4,. t ' '..; e.-
2 p
4 e,
.}.
- ; - y ;
L, .
"l ;
., -;..X :.;'._;.,n...g b p:
' ^
s_
-t a
', gy m
,.gr.. i
.' ' l
,.'!. l,.',Yl ? i.l
'.( l
,y Q)):,,s): &.j;:Q.j
(.,
l- '
o,.
z.
,tq } m3 Y "' p ;n J.j_].f(ll. ;L*;'s, % N, y..,..'.__..
.4
. u.
r L**:?.......-.....
.a s
- WQ,! L '
ii 'q.*th;3R c'
9
.~
__.[
~.,.- ; -._
'y y
L. 4;."- y ;.;_f.f.,p ;4. g %
y; 3.y
.~,*...
L.:;
~.3.,7 7
L.y /
s 1
.v.,.
..c
,.'[
....j..
,.s.
t,
.,;....,,,..q.'L, t
- j.I s
6
- )'.
,.;,' S
.s.
. h. M:< -a m e
t..
y.-
n
- s. : -
1 Q.prg...s,.g
- .p.;
s s.
c.
,p 0., !
,' i'.
E'[
?.
[], J..j.
'.;. y y% : yJ. li.j;;:,.j f f.p.;,
$g a wR. 4;,th 6
.4...:..s.'
1 y q,. y y
c;< a y s 2., s s,
' y.
~. - ',
.. * : ;;.~ - [',q..
. ::(;
- 7 y,;'3 3. p;',y gy : /,,
5.,f.y M:. :;,:...ly):. ; h :.i.gj;
. g Q;.
9
? ',3;:
. ; :. L:. '
e
<:.:.y;i..
.g,-Q.Qq.4
}
1v..
y,. !
y'
- .9 nc n.r, y q;.;1,;.0
- o q(., q' g' g{ %.
n
, 'j ;
,'4
}
'i..,
. '. 4 'S d).U
";f.:.lg. pg. _;;.'
g'.
. ~.. ; yh ?,.p..QQ _
y
- z..
r.
...,v.,.;,.
_ s..;.
y_..., 7f.,.qy :..
,;,7
,y1,.;k
.t y.n. p ' a
.y n..
s_
.w
. - '...f;.'.
.,.[;j..j,',.%.., J y )
.. 2 G: -;
.f.:.. -
~. -
y ',.
..c.....
w.'..
j
.r-g.,j.,
s P
L _
l,,
..L..';
. [';'Q,. ;M v o $.:c, f,:.jf e.
2w jp:! % 'n..
y.W.
p v
i :' *
'q L
.:.~ 7.al n;y'd.? '
y,.
!.2 %
', + '... -
- i. ;
'l. g %,,
,..,.,....,...t; C.,q.,j
-.p
- ,}
\\
1..., p.:..
.p*
.: l.'..,,,.. '. C,,, 4 y
4
.fi w
, p
,y f'y :
.y.
A Q.
4
- t.
y, e
. gm#
n, ', ;f -'
P-
.h' y'
s: :,?
gh 4
' w.-
, j., *
-,./,.,.
, j A. l' e
.L',
4... Sm,.,. c
.g; g
7.-.. -,
~.
p(-
(,
- ~
] ', <.. 1. 3 _. s.{. K.g. A}y.,hq, g.,...,
..d.
[
t.n.: [;c: j y :;. ;.'i t. q;. 9.y N, &e g.:.;a g g
.-. s
_e v
a.
0.
k } ; 8g,;;a,.g f.k ifl
If
,,. ; ; y..
g
.:. 7 ) 3,.
(., ;. ;.
- p K'W,J s
a
~- -
.,'q
....~.;...:..,
. '. ?; &.'.g. lQ -
y-
- . ' 5.. ;.?
y.
I '.'. 2" k,N.
.y ;.N.9. ffQ< {;q:s W W;-
O.
.'Y f/
. v.
e
. : Q., _, : y 3 _:,. ; ;f... n i;f.t-Q. 7
^
/.7.(...;:';yrq %J a
-. < x 5; c.o; g
...,4
?
~
W. m,C y.
f
- ...., T..._k-..; _
e
.. ~.
_. : ; - q, ;......,j...(
- , gj. ;..1,j. N
- 4. jg3 x, y g y.g ; S
.L.
3 r ygm $.g
- 7
.. W
- p z.,p&., m. n ;4 4..
~,.,,
....q.
.,,(
y
+.:'.. & y; '.,.m.; ; _.s.r ; %, ;i e ;.:.:. 2 Y' y
~ :.
.y.
a' s.
.n : - g:m m
w.
- . *y-g
\\.;.
- i r_:
y.
.i.y;:. QgQ
,2f y
. m.. s.tg. q i g m v
y4
. 3p 4.
~ e :.
<..,.,y..-
.g.
Y, j f./.w.....e;;.l;q$m.&g&f'j.
. j -
yl &'.[f Tk
.. l
^$Ub g.h..
c o
pw
.s
- ... j ;p...[.77.gg;,,. ? Ng
[...
b ~ f.
. q:-. y ;;.
't:
y-g..;.,
.g.g 3 g
+.... u. a.m
. l. :.
.' J I '. f. '. ?. ; L ' %:.:f%f L:L $}. m,.
..~...,.
.Q; 1.
.m
..; p ;. b
- ' ' n ? ;f y, '.. ;.. a.
^
_,.. 'V.,
./b.._
- ... g.'7_ j....;,...
...L,.,
- 3. : ^, ;,.
. J.,se,.\\
- F;.
5
, _..;,,. [
..,.g<j,.
..$..,.,.4[
.~
i.t L
'..9'
. 1 ;.E,7' CT.'.1,,,.
c <,
J: -
f.
3
., ' J
.u
. x
..y,,ic.
,....:a w c..q.y
,.p s.
, :: r x..
c..
,s
- m. m g.%..
~ [
, _ y la@' <
j}
f
' ( 7 9 ].- [ ( d M j h M k
[%. V. : f f : h.i.' &:j '; Q. y,}.
. :{ '.'
9.'.:? m y.. ';.:..b g:. gj:_.jg;&:.~:q Ogg,%yI
- yg:,./..
iy 4 @
I_
.1 t 43 m a...: "... n 3yx~',
a
~
y n
OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT OFLPROCEEDINGS Ou
- NUCLEAR-REGULATORY COMMISSION ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR ' AFEGUARDS' S
o iTitle:
' ADVANCED REA'CTOR-DESIGNS.-
~
SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING'
.gs t.j d c i
j'C Docket No.:-
gjg.g"gi.,: m em:n f(}
ii 13 ^ ~
v a -
=.
a
-Work' Order No.-
ASB-300-129 o>
b LOCATION:
. Rockville, Maryland l
DATE:
Tuesday, February 3,19 PAGES:1 - 97 aga11ctoe 0e0003 PDP A i F c, r
wt PDR ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES 12501 Street, NW, Suite 300 Washington,D.C. 20005
)
(202) 842-00 A, C TS A,c.-.-,.__34% Rei bFl 0 IhD Eid C0F M]e
.. ~ _....
4 i
'l J
- l
- 1_
- /?
DISCLAIMER r
.i UNITED STATES NUCLEAR-REGULATORY COMMISSION'S:
ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS 4
FEBRUARY 3, 1998 The contents of this. transcript of-the proceeding t
of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission Advisory
! Committee.on Reactor Safeguards,.'taken on. February 3, 1998,-
as reported herein, is a.. record-.of the discussions-recorded-
- at the meeting held on'the-above date, This. transcript had not been reviewed ocorrected and edited and'it:may.contain inaccuracies, s
N L
k l*
i 1
1 UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
-m i
(
I 2
ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS
%/
3 4
ADVANCED REACTOR DESIGNS S
SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING 6
7 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 8
Two White Flint North 9
11545 Rockville Pike 10 Rockville, Maryland 20852-2738 11 12 Tuesday, February 3, 1998 13 14 The Committee met pursuant to notice at 1:20 p.m.
x_,
15 16 MEMBERS PRESENT:
17 JOHN BARTON, ACRS Chairman 18 ROBERT SEALE, ACRS Member 19 GEORGE A?OSTOLAKIS, ACRS Member 20 THOMAS KRESS, ACRS Member 21 DON MILLER, ACRS Member 22 DANA POWERS, ACRS Member 23 ROBERT SEALE, ACRS Member 24 ROBERT UHRIG, ACRS Member 25 GRAHAM WALLIS, ACRS Member
()
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
- ~ _ _
t 2
1 1
PROCEEDINGS 2
(1:20 p.m.)
3 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
The meeting.willznow come to 4
order. _This is the first day of a two-day meeting of~the 5
-ACRS Subcommittee on Advanced Reactor Design.
6-I am John Barton, chairman of the Subcommittee.
7' The-ACRS Members in attendan' - tre George 8-Apostolakis,_ Thomas Kress, Don Miller, Dana Powers, Robert
!i Seale -- who will join us shortly, Robert Uhrig,-and Graham 10 Wallis.
We also have in attendance ACRS Consultant James 11 Carroll.
-12 The purpos. of this meeting is to hold discussions 13 with representatives of the NRC staff and Westinghouse-14 Electric Corporation to gather information concerning the-15 AP600 advanced reactor design.
Presentations will include' 16 items related to the test and analysis program and Standard 17 Safety Evaluation Report "hapters 1, 4,
5, 7,
8,-11, 13, and 18 18.
The subcommittee will gather information, analyze 19 relevant issues and facts, and formulate-proposed positions 20 and actions as appropriate, for delibere. tion by the full 21 Committee.
22 Noel Dudley is the cognizant ACRS Staff Engineer
-23 for this meeting.
'The rules for participation in today's meeting-25 have been announced as part of'the notice of this meeting ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters j-1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 l
-(202) 842-0034
3 1
previously published in the Federal Register on January 14,
(
)
2 1998.
-3 A transcript of the meeting is being kept and will 4-be made available as stated in the Federal Register notice.
5 It is requested that speakers first identify themselves and 6
speak with sufficient clarity and volume so they can be 7
readily heard.
8 We have received no written comments or requests 9
for time to make oral statements from members of the public.
10 The task of the ACRS is to review and comment on 11 the portions of the Westinghouse application for the AP600 12 standard design certification that concern safety.
The 13 Westinghouse presentations regarding the AP600 Standard 14 Safety Analysis Report chapters and the test and analysis O)
(_
15 program are intended to provide the ACRS with an 16 understanding of the proposed design.
The ACRS will also 17 review the N"C Final Safety Analysis Report and hear 18 presentations from the NRC staff concerning its review of 19 the design.
20 ACRS has agreed to expedite its review of the 21 AP600 standard design certification applicat.
For ACRS' 22 to meet the expedited schedule, NRC staff must provide a 23 complete and high-quality FSER with no safety-significant 24 open items, and Westinghouse and the staff must provide the 25 necessary support during subcommittee and full committee n()
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
4 1
meetings. -The: expedited schedule is also predicated on the
(
2 relevant FSER chapters being available to the ACRS before 3
each subsequent subcommittee meeting.
You'll note you do 4
not have draft FSERs for the chapters that are going to be 5
addressed during this subcommittee meeting.
The ACRS should 6
consider preparing an interim report based on'information 7
presented at each subcommittee meeting.
A In the absence of Dr. Seale, who wanted to make a v
9 statement at the beginning of this subcommittee meeting --
l 10 he is at a meeting with the Chairnian, I believe -- I'll read 11 a prepared statement from Dr. Seale:
12 The ACRS concerns for the acceptance of any 13 passive _ design are fundamental and are specifically 14 identified as an ACRS responsibility-in 10 CFR 50.53, which-15 states that the ACRS shall report on-those portions of
.16-standard design certification applications which concern 17
. safety.
Also, 10 CFR 1.13 states that~the ACRS, as 18 established by section 29 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, 19 as amended, will review and report on the safety studies and applications for construction permits and facility operating
-20 21 licenses.
22 In the traditional evaluation of the ability of-I 23 existing plant designs to meet the adequate protection 24-requirement, the performance of engineered safety systems is 25-basic in providing the " margins" that have been required for bI
\\-
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
-5 1
an affirmative finding.
As a result, concerns have focused
()
2 Lon ' system reliability, redundance :Ln safety trains, the 1
3 training of plant operators, and equipment operation to 4
respond to initiating events, et cetera.
When the 5
transition is made to passive safety systems, the concern 6-for a safe. response shifts to the adequacy of the basic natural processes that drive the passive systems.
. Natural 8~
convection, containment atmosphere stratification, 9
condensation heat transfer, film distribution on the 10 internal and external containment surfaces, and evapor'ative 11 heat transfer are among the natural processes that are being 12 relied upon in the AP600 design.
These processes may.or may 13 not be adequate to the loads imposed in a safe plant
-14 respcnse to an initiating event, In short, the problem has-()
15 evolved-from the adequacy of pumping power provided by 16 redundant large pumps, to the capability of natural 17-processes to provide the needed heat removal capability-18 without operator intervention.
19
-The bar has not been raised as has been suggested.
20 The end of the prepared comments by Dr. Seale.
21-At-this point we will open the meeting and turn it 22 over to Brian McIntyre of Westinghouse to start the review.
23 MR. McINTYRE:
This is hopefully the last stages 24 of a process that we started in 1992 when we turned the SSAR 25 and the PRA and portions of the ITAACs in to the staff for ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
6 1- -
review.
2-Where we think we are right now, this:is the path 3
to final design-approval, because we think we're in the 4-very, very last stages in this part of the review, is that 5.
we need to provide the responses to the remaining open items-6 to the staff, and our schedule for doing.that is-in
-7 February, this month.
And I want to talk just a little bit 8
about doing -- when we say we're just submitting the open 9
-items, how ve're reaching closure on those-items.-
I 10 We have a process with the st.af f, they ask a 11 question and we give them an answer.
Obviously where we 12-provide a written answer, they go through the review-13 process, and something that we've instituted to try to move 14 this process along is we don't get a written response back O
V 15 from the-staff, either we like it,- we hate it, or could-you 16 make these2 changes to it, but we have something called-
- -chaptea closeout meetings, and the staff is assigned two 1 18
-refer to them as ombudsmen, facilitators, whatever, one for 19 the1DSSA= group;and one for the engineering group, and:we sit 20 with down with-the technical staff and go over each one:of 21 our responses at that time, we mark it up, we make whatever 22 changes need to get made to it, and so we try 'o agree on t
23 the exact wording so we can close it on the spot.
24' What we're finding out is that of the answers that 25 we're turning in for these final safety evaluation report O
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
7 1
items is that 50 percent of them are accepted on the spot, pT) 2-first go-round; the second 25 percent after we sit down and 3
explain what we wrote or accepted, so we're up to 75 4
percent, and the other 25 percent we have to go back and 5
make some changes to, and then we send those back ir a the 6
staff.
7 This is also used as a time to find out if there's 8
any items where we're not going to reach agreement with the 9
' staff so that things aren't going to fester like the 10 containment spray did.
That was a favorite of you all at 11 various times or another, and that went on for the better 12 part a year, that we ( 'n move these things up to the senior 13 management a lot quicker.
14 And then also that lets these items be complete.
15 We have not had at this-instant any things where we've had 16 to involve senior management.
There are a couple technical 17 issues where we're probably going to have to do that.
We 18-then provide any required update of documentation and the 19 NRC -- I have the word " closed" -- they don't really close 20 it until they issue their FSER, but they consider the issue 21 to be technically resolved.
But that's the process that 22 we're going through.
23 MR. CARROLL:
Now I keep seeing on that slide 24 mention of Westinghouse.
I didn't think they existed 25 anymore, Brian.
[ s')
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
'/
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
.,. MR. McINTYRE:
No, Westinghouse'does.
My paycheck
()
2 says CBS.
We are a division of:CBS Incorporated. =We are a 3'
. company.
We will be
---I think the official term was-4 divested sometime from CBS sometime in the middle of 1998, 5
'but we are still going ahead with this.
-This is still 6_
important to us.
7 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.-
And the thought is that in 8
this divestiture process some other entity'will --
9 MR. McINTYRE:
Some other domestic entity, and I'm 10 told -- I'm not obviously consulted for these carticular 11 discussions that people have expressed an interest in the 12 company.
There are four parts to the company that are -- to 1.'
There's the -- let's see if-I can get this 14 right -- there's us, the nuclear people, there's the INC,
'15 the Process Control Division.
There is the Science and 16_
Technology Center, and there is the government operations,
.17.
-Savannah River and places'likeLthat'.
10 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
19' MR. McINTYRE:
And we have talked to a lot of 20 people, and the conclusion was that we would not be a 21
-candidate to be sold-to Framatome or Siemens or someone like 22 that because of the nuclear business, and obviot sly wo 23
.couldn't sell the management of Savannah River to~Siemens or 24 some people like that.
So we are for sale to a domestic 25_
buyer.
()
ANN R' LEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
. ~. - - -. - -,
~.. =. -. _ -.
9 1
MR. CARROLL:
So it's an all-or-nothing --
2'-
Mk. McINTYRE:
Ununm --
-3 MR.' CARROLL: _You can't buy a piece?
'4 MR. McINTYRE:
You-can probably buyLa piece.
5 There's a lot 1to be-said for keeping the nuclear _ parts of it 6_
together,-but for Savannah River that's primarily a
=7 management operation.
8 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
9 MR. VIJUK - Just out of curiosity, where does i
10 Faskey & Associates fit-in to that.
11 MR. McINTYRE:
They are -- what are they? -- they 12 are now a. wholly owned subsidiary of -- a division of CBS is 1 --
13 guess is they way I would-describe it.
c14
-DR. KRESS:
They might be divested also, maybe?
()
15 MR. McINTYRE:
Probably not.
It'would depend on 16 whoever buys the nuclear part ofLthe business.
But we're 17' still Westinghouse.
18 MR. CARROLL:
Very good.
i 19 MR. McINTYRE: 'Just company _instead of 20 corporation.
21' MR. CARROLL:
Yeah, I saw that.
That was 22-different.
23 MR. McINTYRE:
As far as numbers'of open items, if r
24 you look at things that are not FSER open items we have 25-freceived so far 5,027, and if you add up, there were before 4
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reportere 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C, 20005 (202) 842-0034 p
l
..- -.... - ~. ~. -... -
. = -... _ - -. -
10
- 1l weigot'the draft FSER we had received 1,700 questions:from
)
2_
the staff'on the initial' submittal that we had turned in.
3 We have received so-far 461' open; items.
Tom has a slide 4-later on that.has 480 type of a number; it's 460.to 480.
L 5
Some of the 19, we hope the other 19_are in this pile.
We 6
'have provided responses at-this instant to 410 plus 8..
We g
7 turn in answers.every day, so that they can get down to the 8
staff and they can answer them or they can redo the answers.
9-If you'look at, as a function of time, for the i
10.
non-FSER items, we are down to -
this is the total number, i
11-These are what the NRC thinks we have left, what we-think we l
12 have left.
It has 18 over on the -- out of 5,000, whatever 13 I said it was, 70-some.
Those are primarily in the ITAAC 14 area, because those are DFSER open items, or FSER-open-
)
15 items.
They are just RAIs and those are: things that we are c
16-working through with the staff right now'and'providing
- 17.
answers to.
T E
18 If you look at the -- the graph of how we are 19 doing on FSER open items, since they started to come in back 20-
,in November,-they said we received 461 we responded to'all
.21 but 43, 22-The -- this is our closure goal, which had us I
23 getting done by February 5th.
That was predicated on
-24 getting all'the questions back in -- in-this. time frame.
As 25 you can see, they have -- as the staff review has ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034 i
c
11
- lt progressed,fwe continue _to get' questions.
We_ knew that 2--
there---are some. sections that are still being out-reviewed
'3 right now.
We expect to get more questions within_the next 4.
-couple of weeks, so,- obviously,- we didn' t make February 5th, 5
but we are'doing very, very close.
6 Of those 43 that_are left, 25 of'them are related 7
to shutdown tech specs, and those.are those. questions that 81 came in this.-- this, that junk right there.
Eight of them L
9:
are ones that they still owe a first time response to, and 10 those are primarily_in the testing area.
And 10 of them are 11 ones where we have'provided an answer, the staff didn't like 12 it as a result of whatever we said, or however we worked out 13 at the open item.
Closure meetings,-since we owe responses 14 for 10 second time around ones.
()
15-So we think we are really, you know, doing a 16 pretty good job of providing the responses to the staff in 17:
these-areas.
18 We think we are done with the Chapter Closecut 19-
_ meetings, we-had those in February, rather long sessions.
20'
_ Sit down, go over every question, go through it.
Very, very_
21 productive.
What came out of there was that we need to --
22 we agreed to give them some-words. -So we owe them a revised 23 answer, we owe them up -- an update to the SSAR.
The update 24 to the SSAR should be shipped next Monday, 25 We have some test and analysis items in those, ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034 L
12 1
those eight that'we haven't answered the first time.
Those
()
2' are primarily the questions from the ACRS Thermohydraulic 3:
Subcommittee.
We.;will.be providing those in February.
And 4
then we have to start these meetings that we are starting 5
like today, which I am called pre-FSER meetings, since you 6
don't have the FSER.
These are the Chapter Review meetings.
?
We-are going to -- starting now going.though, I think we 8
have one at the end of March, the first day of April, then.
9 one scheduled for May, and it:is understanding that you will 10 try to write interim-reports.
11 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
That is correct.
12 MR McINTYRE:
And we expect that, if all goes 13 well, we will receive the FSER in May, at which point Sun l
14 will have the meetings that NOLIS has outlined, the three
()
15-
-subcommittee meetings, a full committee, and wa should:be 16 able to get a letter in July and get an FDA in_ September.
17-If ycn1 look at an overallistatus of where we think 18 we are, the testing program is done, the documentation is
- 19 submitted.
That is really -- we still owe them a few 20 things, updates to reports in those eight questions that_.I 21
. mentioned earlier.
The staff has completed, I don'c know o
22 e exactly what the percentage is, but-I think -- I know Tom is 23 going to talk about that -- but a significant portion of the 24 FSER has-been provided from the tech staff to the_ projects 25 grtup and they are working on it right now.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
.._... - - - -. - -. -.~,...-..
i 13 1-We:are essentially complete with the open items,
()
12
-because.we are:down to 43-out of 461, and when we leave here j
3 -:
today, another, hopefully, 10 or 12 will have been turned 4
in.
5 There are several 'amaining technical issues.
6
-There are things that we think we can get over. - One is the
~
7_
containment codings issue.
We are going to have a meeting
[
8 with the senior management andsthat will get resolved.
9
- There 's. a couple - -
i.
l-
-10 MR. CARROLL:
What is the issue there?
- 11 MR. McINTYRE:
The staff wants the entire --
.12 everything in the containment inside to be safety-related 13 paint.
We, den't think that we need to do that.
We are 14 going to have a discussion with the staff.to explain why we-()
15 think we don't need it.
We have made some changes to the 16 plant that we think that we can avoid that cost and the 17 problem of maintaining it.
E18 There's an issue in the fire protection area as-to 19_
where the water comes from, and.' sprinkling of the spent fuel 20 pool cooling system, w"4 ch we think we will be able to work 21 out with the staff.
22 And then we have to resolve the ITAACs, 23 Westinghouse is doing something a little 1.t different in 24 the ITAAC areas the staff has had some questions on, but I 25-think that is something that will get -- will get worked
()
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202, 842-0034
l 14 1-out.
()
f2 SrLthose_are really the three technical areas, and 3
we'think thoseLare easily resolvable.
They are not -- you 4L don't think I would really describe them as a. safety 5
significant area at.this point. -So'we think that getting 6
the FSER-in May is something thatLis achievable " rom where 7-we are1right now, and_the' final step'is really.to finish the 8
ACRS review at tais point ~.
And for us to finich up last 9
versions of the SSAR and to complete the confirmatory items.
10 MR. CARROLL:
I realize we are going to talk in 11 more detail about the first item there this afternoon, but 12 1
13 MR..McINTYRE:
- Tomorrow, 14 MR. CARROLL:
Or tomorrow, is --
f 15 MR. McINTYRE:
That's tomorrow, yeah.
16 MR. CARROLL:
But from my reading of the minutes
-17 and consultant reports coming out of the December meeting, I 18 think you are a long way-from providing the documentation 19_
.that-the committee--is going to need.-
20 Talk about it tomorrow?
21 MR. McINTYRE:
We can talk about that tomorrow, 22E yeah.
-23 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Tomorrow afternoon, yes.
24 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
25 MR. McINTYRE:
Now, is Tom going to --
i n'
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
v Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
.15 1-CHAIRMAN BARTON:
I am sure Tom:will not be quiet-
- 2 during that session.
3-
"'.. McINTYPE:
Well, he hadLsome slides I think-he
-4 wanted to present.
5 CHAIRMAILBARTON:
Oh, I thought -- I thought Tom 6--
Kress.
[-
7 MR. McINTYRE:
No, I know he won't be quiet.
l-
-8
-CHAIRMAN'BARTON:
Okay.
l i '
9:
MR. KENYON:
If_we may, I-have a follow-up,T ew f
10-more-comments I would like to add en the review status; 11 CRAIRMAN BARTON:
Sure.
!=
12 DR.- WALLIS:
May I also question?
You sound very 13 optimistic.
Now,;I am -- I am' naive and new to this game.
- 14-I see you have a FSER open item comparison-chart you showed-15 Lus.
16' MR. McINTYRE:
Yes.
.. 17 DR. WALLIS:
And I don't understand /why you are so
-18
-optimistic when there seems to be a small-percent decrease' 19.
in NRC action W and NRC LTR and all that. 'Are-?those 20 unimportant?
21 MR. McINTYRE:
No, they are not.- These are our 22 responses.
We sent'them 91 --
23
]R. WALLIS:
What are thosezones to --
-24 MR. McINTYRE:
Just a second.- We:sent them 91.
25 responses last week.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.. Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
16 1
DR. WALLIS:
Would you explain what the ones are
()
2-that_ haven't decreased at all,7 or relatively low?
i 3-MR. McINTYRE:
These are the ones coming in.
4 DR. WALLIS:
Likt the ones in between.
5 MR. Mc!NTYRE:_ So that's ---th5t hasn't increased, 6
we consider that to be good.
7 DR. WALLIS:
Well, the one that says NRC --
8 MR. McINTYRE:
These ones are the ones that --
9 DR. WALLIS:
thinks are left to resolve and r
10 close-seems to have decreased by about-25 percent.
That's l-l 11 that one, 1
12 MR McINTYRE:
This curve.
13 DR. WALLIS:
Right.
14 MR. McINTYRE:
It went back up as a result of the 15-meetings.
16 DR WALLIS:
Doesn't that mean they are still left-17 to resolve?
Am I misunderstanding something?
-18 MR. McINTYRE:
You think you have three -.out of 19 the 461 we think-we have reached technical closure en-
-20 three-hundred-and --
21 DR. WALLIS:
So what is the meaning of_NRC thinks
}
22 are still leave to resolve or close?
23 MR. McINTYRE:
That they have to -- some of this 24 is an artifact of the database that we use.
There's what 25-Westinghouse thinxs.
()
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporte-a 1250 I Stree' Suite 300 Washing:
20005 (202) 842-0034
17-11" DR. WALLIS:
Welli it doesn't make sense to
!2-present me with an artifact.
3-MR. McINTYRE:
Okay..
The things'that you need to 4
take away from this, okay, are that we have provided 5
responses to_all but 43.
They have asked 461.
There are 6-different --
l' 7
DR. WALLIS:
No, I take --
8 MR.-McINTYRE:
Just a second.
Interpretations of 9
what you can do with the things in between.
That there-are 10 some differences between where the staff is, that they have 11 to reach agreement'that we have closed things out.
They 12 have got, like I said, 91-that we turned in last week that 13 probably have just hit their desks.
14 And eventually these will come together.
Right
(
"15 now it is various, you know, they think that we have, for 16 example, _that's probably 200-ish that we.still have to take 17
' action on.
We think we are down to 43.
This is just 18-just a snapshot in time of where are in the review, 19
-And we are optimistic because we-have provided the 20 answers and when we do sit down and meet with-the staff, 21 such as during this time period, or this time period, the
-22 numbers come down.
And we expect that the number NRC thinks 23 that we have left to resolve with take a dramatic drop when 24 they sit downLand look at the answers.
And that we turn in 25 to them-the confirmatory items that we have committed to.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
)
s
18 1
DR. WALLIS:
Well, does that happOn 2
instantaneously?-
3 MR. McINTYRE:
It can happen over the course of 4
two-days when we sit down and talk about the items.
5 DR. WALLIS:
Okay.
q 6
MR. KENYON:
My name is Tom Kenyon.
I am the NRR 7
Project Manager on the AP600.
8 Brian has given a large portion of my 9
presentation, so I am just going to hit on a few highlights.
10' As Brian mentioned,_our intent is to finish the 11 Advanced FSAR and provide it to the Commission and the Av.1S 12.
on May 1st with our intent to provide final design approval 13 in September -- to issue one.
14-In order to expedite the review in November and 15 December, the Staff put together all of its FSAR inputs with 16 open items identified in them.
Our intent was to forward 17 this to Westinghouse and identify, narrow down what all the remaining open issues were and in December and January to 18 19 have these issue resolution meetings that Brian was talking 20 about.
21 We had identified 480 items.
Westinghouse has 22 them all.
They count 460.
There's a few that I keep in our 23 accounting systcm that include issues that were identified 24 early on, but Westinghouse hasn't really kept them included.
25)
They have addressed all but about 40 of the issues, as he's n
(
)
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
19-1 mentioned earlier.
():
2 Cur intent has been to have the issue-resolutibn meetings over the last two months to identify all remaining 3
.4 issues and-bring.them to'a closure.. Our intent originally 5.
in our schedule that we sent to the Commission was to -have-
~6 this all done by the-end of January.
7 As a result of the issue resolution meetings, we 8
feel that there are abour 315 of the 480 are technically 9
resolved.
What does that mean?
That means that
-Westinghouse has presented exactly what changes they are 10 11 going to make to their.SAR and to-their submittals, the 12 Staff has looked at them.andL we are in agreement with them, l:
13 and they are basically confirmatory items that either Westinghouse has provided changes to already or they are I
14 15_
going to provide changes to.
16-Now the real question is what about the other 160-17 or so of the issues, and they are in various stages.-
For 18-instance, Westinghouse owes us responses on'about'40 of the 19-items.
In other cases-Westinghouse has just recently made 20 submittals.
The Staff is evaluating them and we are getting 21
-back to them either in meetings or in telecons to try to 22.
resolve'anything remaining.
23 Now whether or not we can-achieve the schedule 24 that we have identified to provide the SER-to the committee 25 in May_is dependent upon a number of factors.
'. b
'\\
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
20 1-Number one, we are going to have'to quickly
)
2 resolve the remaining-open issues. --The problem is that that
~ 3
' entails getting submittaAs from-Westinghouse, do a final-4 review and approval, and rewriting SER sections.
,5:
Now Brian's comment that the Staff has written-g 2-6 most of the SER sections is correct to a-point, but the 75 problem that I have with that statement is that a lot of 8
_those SER sections have-open items in them and as a result
.9 of these issue resolution meetings and modifications to 10 their SAR the Staff is going to have to rewrite portiont of 11 the SER.
12 In addition, as was mentioned by Mr. Barton,.the 13
-ACRS is looking for advance copies of our SER.
The Staff is 14 looking for ways to accommodate the1 committee and still 15 comply with the Commission's directions that we received 1
16 back in '89 and to make sure that we are doing it legally --
~
17-to provide this information and predecisional information in i
18 advance of.what we would normally plan to issue in May.
p 19 DR. KRESS:
Tom, in-addition, there was another-20 ACRS documentation issue that had to do with the quality and 21 completeness of the submitted documents from Westinghouse, 22J and the ACRS raised two' questions about that.
.2 3 '
One is it makes it difficult to rea.'v do an 24_
appropriate review and we were wondering how-you were coping 25 with that in-developing an FSER.
It's really not our ANN RILEY-& ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
21 1
business there, I don't think.
()
2 The other part of that question was in terms of 3
having an archive of the licensing basis, this becomes'part 4
of the licensing basis -- this documentation -- and 5
questions whether-it should be complete and readily 6
available before certification or can it wait until after i
7 certification -- do you cars to comment-on either of those 8
right now?
9 MR. KENYON:
Well, the Staff has performed the 10 review in the piecemeal fashion we have talked about in 11
' previous meetings.
I'believe that the Staff currently _ feels 12 that sufficient document has been provided, However --
13 DR. KRESS:
Is there a regulatory basis for what 14 i:s sufficient, or. just a judgment call on you guys part?
15 MR. KENYON:
Jerry?
I don't have an answer, 16 MR. WILSON:
Jerry Wilson, NRR.
17 The regulatory basis is in Part 52, specifically 18 52-47.
It_says Staff need sufficient information to make a 19 safety : finding and so t: e implementation of that of course 20 is judgmental end depends on the particular technical area 21-inrolved.
22' MR, CARROLL:
I guess I was taken by the fact that 23 if'the chapters we are looking at today, which are in two 24
' binders, plus the ones that we haven't got, probably 25 constitute three or four binders, by comparison the ABWR and
(
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
~
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
22
-l' the 80 Plus were a bookcase plus. full of binders.
, ( )'
2
- What is-the difference?
Why was this FSER so 3
concise, I guess?
i
-4 ~
MR. KENYON:
Are_you saying that the SER does-not
-5 seem to be-the-same
---I'm sorry.
I-don't Callow your 6
' question.
7 MR. CARROLL:
_ ell, the Westinghouse _ submittal --
W 8
SAR.
9 DR-KREFS:
SAR is what we have got, 10-MR. CARROLL:' Yes, SAR.
11 MR KENYON:
Woll, the SAR is 20 volumes or so, 12 approximately.
There is a bookcase full of --
13-MR. CARROLL:
What-are we looking at?
14 MR. DUDLEY:
I have provided only those chapters
)
15=
that were going!to be reviewed during this meeting.
16 MR. CARROLL:
Yes,'but they were in two binders.
- 17' MR DUDLEY That's correct, They were short 18 chapters.
19 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
So the remaining chapters 20 are --
21 MR DUDLEY:
-- are more voluminous.
22 MR CARROLL:
All right.
23 MR. KENYON:
When you say 20 volumes, are you 24 counting the ones that are separate proprietary volumes?
25 MR. CARRCLL:
Well, actually there's no more
-b ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
\\#
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
23~
~
1 -
proprietary volumes for the SAR.
()
'2:
They have either removed the information from the-3 SAR and. -- cnr they have included it in reference ~ -- in 4
WCAPS, but there's 20 volumes.
5 There's 18 or 19 chapters.
As Noel mentioned, 6
they are different sizes.
I mean Chapter 16 takes a volume,.
7 so --
8 My point here with the ACRS. request for the 9
advance documents is we are looking into -- lookin.~ for ways 10 to accommodate your request --
11 DR.-KRESS:
But that is the ISER.
12 MR.-KENYON:- That is the FSER -- and we are still E13 vorking~toward a schedule to issue the SER, advanced SER in
.14
_May.
)
-15 I just wanted to make a brief' statement on the-16 status of today's topics.
'I have noticed that in_the agenda 17 we are listed to have a discussion at the end of each-18 chapter.
19--
The Staff has no significant open issues on;most E
L20 of these chapters, and so we have no prepared formal 21-discussions.
22 Now we are going to have Staff members available
' 23' during the discussion -- during the Westinghouse-24 presentations to address any comments.
Now the one section 25.
on-the testing program and code development of course O
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
24 1
there's still significant issues that are under review.
[)
2 They have been identified in previous ACRS meetings.
V 3
Basically what we are going to present ton.orrow is 4
a slide or two giving a summary of where the Staff is with 5
regard to doing that portion of the review, 6
MR. CARROLL:
Chapter 13 should have said that you 7
haven't included security, right?
8 MR. KENYON:
That's correct.
Security is still 9
under review by the Staff and we thought it appropriate to 10 delay that until the next meeting.
11 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
I caw n.ention of a i
12 Westinghouse security design report.
I wonder if there is 13 some mechanism by which that can be made available to our 14 staff and kept under proper lock and key so the members can
/~
(,T) 15 look at it when they are here.
16 MR. KENYON:
I'm sure --
17 MR. CARROLL:
Well, it's your report.
18 MR. McINTYRE:
It's our report.
We give a copy to 19 the Staff and there are certain legal --
20 MR. CARROLL:
I understand.
21 MR McINTYRE:
-- implications and I keep mine 22 locked in the safe and the Staff has one.
I'm sure you can 23 see it somehow.
24 MR. KENYON:
I'll work something out with your 25 fellow, with Noel.
l
- O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
's-Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 i
Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
4 25_-
11:
That completes my presentation.
With that, I_
. ()
2=
think I'll turn it ' Jack over to Westinghouse 3
MR.'McINTYREi.LThank you, Tom.
4>
We are going to have a_ presentation by'Ron Vijuk 5-on Chapter 1, which'is~the_ general description of the plant.
6 MR. VIJUK:
Thank you.
My name is Ron Vijuk.
I e
7 manage the systems engineer 3ng function for.AP600 at 4
8 Westinghouse.-
I've kept-chapter 1 material that I'll 9
present'relatively'brief.
10 What I wanted to-do was to point to the things in 11 AP600 that distinguish it from operating plants, things.that 12 are different in AP600 than plants that you've seen-in the 13~
past, just to refresh -- I'm sure you've heard this all 4
~
14z before, but these'are the specific features I think that O
g,,/-
15 distinguish AP600.
The reactor coolant loop's a bit 16 different.
We use canned motor reactor coolant pumps.
That 17 allows us to simplify.the main' loop piping and simplify the 18
-reactor coolant loop, and when we.get into chapter 5 we can-
__19 see a lot more specifics on that.
'20-It's a low power density core relative to a
$21
- typical Westinghouse two-loop plant, and again when we get 22 tinto chapter 4 we can give you specifics on that.
23 Of course AP600 uses passive safety systems.
We
-24 won't be talking in detail about that today.
That's in 25 chapter 6.
.But I'll talk a little bit more about it in the
. Os ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-00 4 n
e
--1
26 1
introduction here, i
'()
2
-We've tried to simplify the normal operating 3
systems in the plant to keep the plant simple for the-4 operator and as simple to maintain and so forth that we 5
possibly can.
6 The plant incibJes digital microprocessor-based 7
technology for the control and protection systems in'the 8
plant on a plantwide basis, and we'll be talking more about D
that. tomorrow when we get into chapter 7 I guess it is.
i 10 Likewise, the control room design is based on 11 electronic work stations for the operator interface as 12 opposed to the conventional big switches and control board 13 that we're used to seeing.
14 The physical arrangement of the plant -- and I'll
()
15 talk a little bit more about that -- is we've paid a lot of 16 attention to ir designing the plant to factor into the
.17 physical arrangement things that enhance safety,-
18 maintenance, operations, and so forta,-and I'll try to point 19 out some of those features in a few slides.
20 Finally, we've put emphasis in the design of the 21 plant on having the capability to use modular construction 22 techniques to speed the construction of the plant, and we factored that into-the design.
24 DR. POWERS:
I. wonder if you could give me a 25 capsule description of why you made a design.ecision to go I I }-
IJul RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
j J
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 l
Washington, D.C. 20005 l
(202) 842-0034 1
4 r
~,. - -, -.,.,..,.,. ~,,. ~.,,,_,,.--,.,.,- _
.m-
,,#s
.w--
.,..-~,..~...r...
-.----.,,v
......u.
M 27 i
l 1
with electronic work stations for operator interface.
Did
()
2 you have some evidence that that was superior to the more 3
traditional designs?
}
4 MR. VIJUK:
I just -- my personal view, and I'm 5'
sure we'll talk more about this tomorrow when we get into i
j 6
chapter 7 and chapter 18 and we have the-experts here who 7
were party to those decisions, but that's where the 8
tecnnology in general was pushing us.
It wasn't l
9 DR. POWERS:
So you-didn't do an' actual trace 10 study to --
11 MR. VIJUK:
Oh, there were many studies.
There 12 have been many studies done, and I can't speak to them i
13 myself, but we can hear about them tomorrow I think, that i
14 back up the use of these kind of interfaces, and t.nere are-()
15
-continuing studies.
As you will hear in chapter 18, it 16 basically lays out a very rigorous process for evaluating 17 the operator interface.
As you develer the design you put 18 the operators through testing and verify that they can do 19 the jobs that they're being asked to do and this kind of s
t 20 thing.
21 DR. POWERS:
Is this a crucial element of the 22=
design, that is, without this, you know, if a customer came 23 in and says I love the plant, I'll buy it, but I want the 24 traditional control room design, would you say buy it-2' 5 someplace else, because we can't change it?
' ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 125 0 I Street., _ N.W., _ Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
28 1
MR. VIJ;K:
Yes, I don't think we could change
()
2 that at this point.
3 DR. WALLIS:
May I ask about passive systems?
I 4
take~it this means that nature does it --
5 MR. VIJUK:
Right.
6 DR. WALLIS:
Does that mean that humans cannot 7
interfere with those systems and shut them off, or modify 8
them in some way so that they don't operate as designed?
9 MR. VIJUK:
Again, this is a human systems 10 interface issue.
We are designed -- the passive systems 11 are -- most of the functions are, if not all, are automatic, 12 automated, so that the plant will sense when it needs to 13 actuate one of these safety systems, and it will 14 automatically actuate.
And we've tried to design them so
()
15 that they will complete their mission.
16 We have, as in current plants, we have emergency 17 operating guidelines under which the operator can take 18 actions depending on the course of events and what the plant 19 is telling him to adjust the systems appropriately.
So I 20 don't know if there's a yes or no answer to your question, 21 but --
22 DR. WALLIS:
Well, it think it's a design 23 philosophy question, because passive sounds good until you 24 let somebody actively change it in some way, and it becomes 25 not quite so passive.
Someone can close a valve or open a h
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
k-Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
29
{
1 valve or --
2 MR. VIJUK:
Once a safety system is actuated, the 3
operator cannot change the functioning of that safety system 4
unless he meets certain criteria which are established in 4
5 the emergency operating guidelines or procedures.
6 DR. WALLIS:
He cannot or he is not supposed to, i
?-
MR. CARROLL:
He's not supposed to.
8 MR. VIJUK:
He's not supposed to.
9 DR. SEALE:
Excuse me.
When you say that the 10 system when it senses the requirement it actuates those 11 systems.- That includes the alignment of the valves in the 12 appropriate way to allow the so-called natural flow paths to 13 be established and so on?
r 14 MR. VIJUK:
That's correct.
15 DR. SEALE:
Okay.
16 MR, CARROLLt In-December of '96 we had'a meeting-
[
17 and looked at chapter 1, and I glanced over the minutes of 18 the meeting, and I found that we discussed the Westinghouse-
~
19 statement that the design overall'is consistent with the 20 EPRI utility requirements document.
And I have absolutely 21 no recall of what we talked about.
But I'm sure we must 22 have said are you producing a list of places where you do 23 not exactly meet BURD and -- because I remember that was 24 done with both GE and Combustion.
Did you do that, or am I 25 imagining things?
O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300
' Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 N
4 i
30 l
i 1
MR. McINTYREt-ihot 'eA6 7 ',
"2 t.he staff questions f
()
2 that was a Commissioner Rogcru atem, and we have prepared f
3 that list and sent it in to the-staff.
And it was an 4
. item -- it was a number of like three or four things.
I 5
MR, CARROLL:
Were any of them particularly safety 6
related?
7 MR. McINTYRE:
No.
8 MR. CARROLL:
They're like the bathroom l
9 facilities?
10 MR. McINTYRE:
Well, they're more than the 11 bathroom facilities, but they weren't safety-related items.
12 MR. CARROLL:- Okay.
Can the staff provide us with 13 that list for tomorrow?
14 MR. DUDLEY:
Yes, we can bring it.
()
15 MR. CARROLL:
I'd just like ---I'd like to look at 16 it.
17 MR DUDLEY:
- Okay, t
18 DR. SEALE:
By the way, I think the ACRS can 19 disavow any interest in the bathroom facilities.
20 MR. CARROLL:
I guess the other thing that jumped j
21 out at me at looking at chapter 1 again, which I'must have 22
.done to get ready for that December '96 meeting, was I find 23 absolutely nothing in chapter 1 on fire protection, which it 24 would seem to me would be an important' issue.
Nothing on 125 habitability of the control room, which is a very unique i
O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court' Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
. ~.
31 1
design situation that you have here.
Nothing on shutdown
()
2 risk.
And I guess I couldn't find any~ mention that you 3
comply with 90.016 and its progeny.
4 MR. VIJUK:
I think in section 19 is it --
5 MR. McINTYRE:
90.016 is discussed in section 6
19 --
7 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
8 MR..McINTYRE:
Fire protection is in 9
- chapter 9
9'--
i' 10 MR. CARROLL:
Yes, I know they are --
11 MR. McINTYRE:
Okay.
12 MR. CARROLL In other places, but it just seemed 13 to me if you were doing an overview of the plant or whatever 14 you're calling chapter 1, these are important issues that at 15 least need a paragraph.
16 MR. VIJUK:
.I think there's a lot of pointers in 17 chapter 1 that say go look at chapter-9 or go look at other 18 areas.
19 MR. CARROLL:' Okay. -Just a --
20 MR. VIJUK:. And section 19 in chapter 1 covers all 21 the. regulatory criteria in capsule form of how we --
22 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
1 23 MR. VIJUK:
How we deal with the criteria.
24 DR. MILLER:
I can't say where the fire protection
'25 is there, but --
i O
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250-I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005
,(202) 842-0034
-... - ~ - _ -. -. - -....
4 4
32 1
1 MR.-CARROLL:
No, no, just a -- oh, yeah, here we
()
2 are, 195.
Missed it.
3 MR. VIJUK:
Going back to your question about the E4 operators,~I think when we get into the control and 5
protection systems tomorrow, they can tell you exactly what i
6 prohibitions the design puts -- limitations it puts on-the 7
operator intervening as well as the procedures.
There are 8
design features that I can't speak to myself but I think 4
9 we'll be able to talk about that more tomorrow, 10 The non-safety systems in AP600 are your normal 11 operating systems that do many of the same functions that 12 the safety systems can do, or will do.
They provide, in 13 AP600 approach, the first line of defense if the plant j
14 experiences a malfunction or a failure.
These systems are
)
15 generally redundant active systems powered by on-site 16 non-safety diesels and can deal with -- with many types of 17 events that can occur in a plant without getting the plant 18 into a need for actuation of the passive safety systems.
19 So that is the basic philosophy in designing the L
20 non-safety systems, and the overall result is the capability 21-to reduce the risk because we now have both an active, 22 traditional type system that can deal with the more probable i
23
. events, as well as being backed up by.the passive, 4i 24 safety-related systems.
25 Just to --
1 O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters L
1250.I Street, N.W., Suite 300 L
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 l
~,,
. ~ -.. -. -,,
33 1
DR. WALLIS:
Could you explain something?
I'm 2
sorry.
3 MR VIJUK:
- Sure, s
4 DR. WALLIS:
Unnecessary use of passive-safety l
5 systems minimized.
6 MR. VIJUK:
Yes.
7~
RDR. WALLIS:
I mean that means someone has to 8
decide when it is necessary or when it is not necessary?
9 MR. VIJUK:
No. Elf you have.an upset it: the plant 10 that calls for -- if you had a leak in the primary system, 11 for example, the normal charging system can provide make-up 12 for that leak, so that you wouldn't get a reduction in i
13 pressure or volume in the primary system such chat it would 14 actuate --
)
15-IMi. WALLIS :- Well, it-would.be much better to say 16 -
passive safety systems always activated when necessary, 17 That would -- that would make sense to me.
But this sort of
-18 sounds to me that --
19 MR VIJUK:
Well -- yeah --
20-DR. WALLIS:
-- someone might want not to use them 21
- because they want to minimize their use=and this might lead
' to them not being used when they were necessary.
23 MR. VIJUK:
Yeah, it's a probably a poor choice of 24
-words, but the thought that we were trying-to convey here is 25 that when we design these normal operating systems,.although i
i O
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
J Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300
-Washington, D.C. 20005
=-
(202) 842-0034
.... ~
34 1
they.are not needed for -- to meet the criteria for a design
()
2 basis event, we have designed them in such a way that they 3
can.
They can deal with these events up to -- up to a 4
limit.
So that was the thought, and I agree the words aren't very good.
6 DR. UHRIG:' So the better description, is this 7
what you mean, unnecessary reliance on passive systems?
Is 8
that what you mean?
9.
MR. VIJUK:
That's not great either.
I think the 10 way he said it is best, that the non-safety systems provide 11 a first line of defense.
If they fail, in addition to the 12 failure, the passive systems will actuate and perform when 13 necessary.
14 DR. UHRIG:
Passive systems don't actuate, do
(%
(,,/
35 they?- They-just exist.
16 MR. VIJUK:
No, they have-to. actuate..There's --
17 DR. UHRIG:
They actually have --
18 MR. VIJUK:
There's valves.-
19 DR. SEARLE:
That valve will line-them --
20 DR. UHRIG:
You need to line them up.
Okay.
21 DR. APOSTOLAKIS:
Now, why are-the diesels 22 non-safety related?
What is -- there must be something 23
-behind it?
24 MR. VIJUK: -Yeah.
For the passive systems, we 25 don't-need AC power, traditional AC power.
We have -- the ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 l
l 35 i
valve actuations are all through battery, motor-operated or
()
2 other types of valves, air-operated valves, for example, 3
that don't need AC power except what you get through 4
inventors and so forth for the controls.
But it is -- the 5
power source is batteries, 1E batteries.
So we have very 6
large 1E batteries in this plant to do those functions.
7 DR. APOSTOLAKIS:
How many diesels do you have?
8 MR. VIJUK:
We have two large diesels, and for the 9
post-72 hour operations, we have two very small diesels.
So 10 there's -- there's four altogether.
11 DR. WALLIS:
How do non-safety systems reduce the 12 risk?
That's your last bullet.
13 MR. VIJUK:
They reduce the risk by providing this 14 first line of defense.
You can deal with a LOCA in two
)
15 ways.
So, the LOCA gives you a certain probability.
The 16 probability of success if provided by the first line of 17 defense.
18 DR. WALLIS:
Okay.
So you have a quantitative 19 measure of this?
20 MR. VIJUK:
Yes.
In the PRA we have done 21 sensitivity studies.
I can't quote you a number.
22 The only thing left on Chapter 1, that.I was going 23 to.present at least, was the physical arrangement of the 24 plant, just to get people oriented.
This is th9 site 25 layout.
The containment building is here.
This is the
(\\
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
3r 1
auxiliary building, and this part of the plant comprises all
- ()
2 of the seismic part of tne plant, seismic Category 1 part of 3
the plant.
4 We have the turbine building here.
The annex 5
building here, which -- which houses some of the non-safety 6
_ equipment and machine shops and so forth.
This is the rad.
7 waste building here at the end of the aux, building.
8 We have shown a large cooling tower, but the plant 9
is amenable to other ways of providing the heat sink for the 10 plant.
We have two service water cooling towers here that i
11 provide the cooling during shutdown.
?
12 This the transformer area here.
It is -- take a 13 little closer look at the nuclear island, as we call it, the 1
14 containment shield building and auxiliary building.
()
15 MR. CARROLL:
What are the parallel, horizontal 16
-dark lines --
17 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Circ water piping, I think.
18 MR. CARROLL:
-- that extend out?
19 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
The dashed lines, going to-the 20 -
l 21 MR. CARROLL:
No, no.
Over on the right of the 22 drawing.
23 MR VIJUK:
On the right.
24 DR. APOSTOLAKIS:
The dark horizontal.
25 HMR. CARROLL:
Yeah.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 i-Washington, D.C.
20005
=-
(202) 842-0034
_ _. _ - ~. _ _ _.. _ -
4 37
]
1 MR. VIJUK:
That's the rail access.
2 MR. CARROLL:
And there is another one up above?
)
3 MR. VIJUK:
I didn't think so, but it could'be for I
4 the turbine building, yeah.
It may'have shown : rail l
3 i
5 access.
6 Do you recall, Brian, or Mike?
7 MR. McINTYRE:
Both.
8 MR. VIJUK:
Both of them, yeah.
l 9
MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
Okay.
I expected to see one, 10 but not two-.
1 11 MR. VIJUKt Looking at the nuclear island, this is 12 a cross-section at an elevation just -- the elevation just 13 below the operating deck in the containment, and it shows 4
14 some of the more interesting thf.ngs about the physical 15 arrangement.
i 16 We have, of course, reactor and steam generators.
l 17 These are the main steam lines heading.to the' turbine l
18 building.
This is the refueling cavity connecting'into the 4
19-spent fuel area over in the aux.l building.. This is a I
20 maintenance hatch, which is really at grade level, which is 21-one level below this plan, but it is a high bay area.
So we 22 have grade-level access to the containment for maintenance.
i 23 Here you see the main control area.
We divided 24-the aux. building into radioactive side of the plant and a 25-normally not-radioactive side of the plant.
All of the ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,_ Suite 300
~
Washington, D.C.-20005 (202) 842-0034
38 1
control, electrical equipment and instrumentation and 2
control equipment and as well as some HVAC equipment are 3
located in that part of the. aux. building.
On this part of 4
the aux, building is the rad. waste equipment, the normal 5
residual heat removal system, the spent fuel cooling system, 6
the spent fuel pool, the rail car bay, spent resins area, 7
most of the equipment that can be radioactive during i
8 operation.
9 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Is that the only access hatch in 10 the containment, the one shown on the.t elevation?
11 MR..VIJUK:
No, there's one at the operating deck
)
12 as well, almost directly above it.
13 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Thank you.
14 MR. VIJUK:
There's two hatches, two big hatches, 15 and there's also two personnel access hatches at those same 16 elevations.
17
.This is the in-containment refueling water storage 18 tank.
It's -- this is the large source of water for the 19 passive systems and the long-term cooling mode, or for the 20 heat sink from the -- the passive residual heat removal heat 21 exchanger which sits inside the tank here.
22 This is the pressurizer.
These are the sparsers 23 for the automatic deprescurization system.
24 MR. CARROLL:
Back to your maintenance hatch for a 25 moment.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005
-(202) 842-0034
I 39 4
I 1
MR. VIJUK:
Uh-huh.
q I ()
2 MR. CARROLL:
Can that be closed to be pressure l
i 3
tight without AC power?
l r
j 4
MR. VIJUK:
Yes.
5 MR._ CARROLL:
Good.
How long does it take?
6 MR. VIJUK:
I don't know if I can quote you a 7
number but it is something less than an hour, I believe.
{
8 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
9 MR. VIJUK:
Now, if we look at a sec, son here.
10 this section AA, through this building this way, we can see
].
11 what the nucleor island looks like in elevation view, i
12 Again, we can get a better perspective on the reactor and 13 the steam generators.
This is the refueling canal here, i
14
.There is the spent fuel pool and the fuel movement and the
()
15 fuel. handling part of the aux, building.
i l
16 This is -- you can-see where grade level is here, a
17~
This is where you get -- in front of this is the rail access' l
18 into the spent fuel area.
j 19 Over on the clean side, you-see some of the HVAC p
20 equipment and electrical rooms.
The chemical volume control-p 21 system for AP600 la -- most of the equipment is.inside 4'
22 containment in a module here.
l 23' Here we can see the passive containment cooling 24 features on the roof of the shield building is the-large d
L 25-tank for passive containment cooling.
We have the steel 4
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
~ Court-Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington,;D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 o
_-.__._,,~_,_..__,.___.,~...,-._...._.-...,_...,._.m.-_...._.
i 40 1
containment-vessel, of course.
A portion of the air baffle l
()
2 for air convection around the containment vessel is shown.
j 3
And I have --
4 MR. CARROLL:
I am sure the smart seismic 5
structural guys know what they are doing, but it stills make j
6' me nervous having that mass of water up at that altitude --
7 or elevation.
t 8
MR. VIJUK:
Yeah.
We have been through an-i 9
intensive review, I would call it, by the staff on that 10 aspect of the design in particular, and I think everybody is 11 happy now.
12 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
13 DR. APOSTOLAKIS:
Where is that water?
Explain to 14 me'a little better where that is?
15 MR. CARROLL:
Way up on top.
16 MR. VIJUK:
This is a tank of water here that 17 holds about 530,000 gallons of water which da distributed 18 through pipes, and things that don't show in this view, onto 19 the containment vessel for cooling the containment vessel'in 20 a post-LOCA. type situation, or a steam line break.
21 DR. APOSTOLAKIS:
And inside the containment you 22 have another tank of water?
What is-that in-containment 23' refueling water' storage tank?
Where --
24 MR VIJUK:
It -- well,_I have to put up the other 25 section.
I think it shows in the other section.
This --
ANN RILEY &-ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
41 1
this is a section through that large tank that_you saw in
, ()
2 the plan view.
It is just below the operating deck.
This 3
is the operating deck elevation in the plant.
This is grade 4
level.
And, as you can see,-it is located above -- above 5
the reactor, as are the core make-up tanks which naturally 6
-feed the reactor too.
7 DR.-APOSTOLAKIS:
Are we -- are we talking about 8
seismic risk this time?
No?
9 MR. VIJUK:
Seismic risk?
This is all --
10 everything I am showing here is Seismic Category 1 11 structures.
12 Here you can see there is a valve room below the 13 tank that -- where the piping and valves that provide the 14 water to the containment cooling are located.
- 15:
These are -- this is some of the gaseous waste 16 charcoal beds.
These are pressurized air bottles for the 17 control room habitability system.
18 Here's the grade level hatch, or at least part of 19 it -- I mean the operating deck level hatch.
L20 That's all I had prepared on Chapter 1.
I can --
21.
MR. CARROLL Let's see, in looking through 22 Chapter 1, I found Appendix B on SAMDA.
And one of the 23 things that jumped out at me is that you are using the.
24
-$1,000 per man rem in your SAMDA evaluations.
And I thought 25 at our urging the Commission had changed that to $2,000 per ANN RILEY &-ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300-Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
l 42 l t
)
1 person rem.
()
2 Is that right, Tom?
3 DR. KRESTs That's right.
l
~
4 DR. SEARLE:
Correct.
1 5
DR.-KRESS:
This just sort of --
I 6
MR. CARROLL:
I don't think it would change the-g a
7 results but 8
DR. KRESS:. It's not that much different.
9 MR.-McINTYRE:
You're right.
10 DR. KRESS:
That means --
11 MR. McINTYRE:
You would not change the result of 12 the SAMDA calculation.
13 DR. KRESS:
Unless you were awfully.close.
3 14 MR. McINTYRE:
We are not even close.
- 15 DR. KRESS:
No, I-don't think-you would.be.
16 MR. CARROLL. But if you want to be up to date 17 with regulatory policy, that's it.
18 MR. VIJUK:
I was going to do the next couple of
- 19 chapters as well.
I can move on to that if you like.
20 Shall I go on to Chapter 5?
j-21 CRAIRMAN BARTON:
Four.
22; MR. VIJUK:
Four -- 4,-5 and 11 I have here kind 23 of together but I can -- I'll start with 4.
p 24 Chapter 4 deals with the reactor and the fuel and I
25 so forth.
I'll start with aLcomparison here between AP600 O
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
,wr,
,-.,,+-,-.,--r-
,,pren-,-,,-.
c m.-,,es,.
mm
.,_.3
,,,,,.,-r.,,-
4 sw,.-y 4
n,w.
w e.%
+,
4 43 1
and typical two loop Westinghouse designs.
()
2 Thermal power is a bit higher.
We have 145 17x17 3
fuel assemblies compared to 121 16x16, so it's quite a bit
-4 larger core and correspondingly!a larger number of fuel rods.
6 It is a 12 foot core,-just like the standard two 7
loops -- the oiameter of course is bigger and the core 8
loading is larger.
The power density, however, is less 9
because of the bigger core and relatively the same overall-10 power.
The power density is about 25 percent lower and it 11 shows up in the average power density average linear power 12-and average specific power.
13 DR. SEALE:
Are these both 600 megawatt electrical 14 nominal?
15 MR. VIJUK:
I can't swear that'the typical two 16 loop is exactly 600 megawatt electric, but ittis 580 or 17 620 -- it is in that range anyway.
18 DR. KRESS:
What is the target burnup?- The fuel?
19 MR VIJUK:
I'll get to that on'a later slide.
20 DR. POWERS:
Before you go on, what was -- again, 21
-can you give me a capsule description of what drove you to
=22 the lower thermal to electrical efficiency?
23 MR. VIJUKi-Low power density was -- it's two 2(
things.
25 It's to build in some safety margin and it gives m
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I-Street, N.W,, Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
=
I i
44 I
'1 you better fuel economics, slightly better fiel economics.
2_
DR. POWERS:
Okay.
3 MR. VIJUK:
One other thing I'll mention here and 1
4 I'll get into it further yet, is the number of control ro3 5
locations we have in AP600.
We have two typse of control 6
.. rods, what we call the convention or black control rods, and 4
3.
7 we have 45 of those, and we also have gray rods in A9600 And 8
I will talk more about that, compared to 33 normal control 9
rods in the typical two loop --
l
{
10 DR. SEALE:
That's the number of drives; isn't it, 11 actually?
12 MR. VIJUK:
We have 45 plus 16 is the number of, 13 total number of drives, right.
14 DR. SEALE:
Okay -- then you've got these-spiders
!- VO 15 hanging off of them?
I 16 MR. VIJUK:
Right.
Each one has 24 rodlets I 17 believe-it is.
j 18 DR. POWERS:
The black rods are what type?
19 MR VIJUK:
20 DR. POWERS:
Yes.
21 MR. VIJUK:
This shows a comparison of the 4
22 standard two loop and the AP600 core cross-section, as you 23-can see.
The vessel and the core are quite a bit bigger.
24 We also have in AP600, we have designed in a radio reflector 25 around the periphery of the core, and-it is stainless steel O
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
45 1
and I'll talk more about that.
()
2 That has a number.of benefits for the reactor.
3 This shows the control and gray rod locations by 4
assenbly_in the AP600 pattern.
5.
The fuel assembly design is similar to what we 6
would put-in today's plants in that we call the 17x17 7
Vantage-5H design, if you are familiar with our names for these things.
8 9
It has some slightly different features.
The fuel 10 assembly is 10 inches longer, then the overall assembly is 11-10 inches longer, and that was to put in additional gas-12 plenums in the fuel rods so that you hr4ve the capability to -
13 take more gas, fission gases that are produced and therefore 14 get to higaer burnups.
()
-- 15 We:use a modified Vantage-5H grid design that was 16 developed recently. -We have one additional structural-grid 17 r.nd one additional flow mixer grid in-the AP600 assembly 18 compared to the standard design because it is a bit longer, 19 DR. POWERS:
You attempted to compensate for gas 20 release at higher burnups.
Did y.u -
do you anticipate any 21-changes to the cladding?
- 22 MR. VIJUK
As you see, on this slide we have
'23 ZIRLO cladding, we call it, the trademark name, which is a 24 version of Zirealloy that has some better features than the 25
_ standard Zircalloy used for the cladding.
O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250'I Street, N.W., Suite 300-Washington, D.C. 20005
-(202) 842-0034
46 1
In particular, the recent concerns about burnup (a) 2 and incomplete rod insertion that we have seen in operating 3
plants, ZIRLO experiences less growth in the material as a 4
function of burnup and therefore should be less susceptible 5
to the kinds of effects that manifested themselves in high 6
burnup assemblies in operating plants.
7 DR. POWERS:
Is it as good at the Zirconium 8
Niobium clads?
9 MR. VIJUK:
I don't know the answer to that.
10 MR. CARROLL:
What was your question, Dana?
l 11 DR. POWERS:
I just wondered if the ZIRLO is as 12 good as the Zirconium Niobium clads.
13 MR. VIJUKi As I mentioned we have upper and lower 14 plenuma and they are bigger than the standard design for (n_,)
15 fission gas release.
16 We have also made a longer solid bottom end plug 17 to prevent clad fretting due to debris at the bottom grid, 18 which we have had experience with in operating plants, and 19 the low linear power in conjunction with the advanced 20 features gives us confidence that we can achieve assembly j
21 l
average burnups of more than 60,000 megawatt days per metric 22 ton, which is one of the utility requirements that's in the i
23 URD.
24 DR. POWERS:
Can you tell us what that confidence 25 is born of?
b' /
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 1 Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
46 1
In particular, the recent concerns about burnup 5()
2 and incomplete rod ~ insertion that we have seen in operating 3
plants, ZIRLO experiences less growth in the material as a 4
function of burnup and therefore should be less susceptible j
5 to the kinds of effects that manifested themselves in high 6
burnup assemblies in operating plants.
7 DR. POWERS:
Is it as good at the Zirconium 8
Niobium clads?
q.
q 9
MR. VIJUK:
I don't know the answer to that.
i.
10 MR. CARROLL:
What was your question, Dana?
i l
11 DR. POWERS:
1 just wondered if the Z1RLO is as 2
12 good as the Zirconium Hiobium clads, i
j 13 MR. VIJUK:
As I mentioned we have upper and lower 14 plenums and they are bigger than the standard design for
(/
15 fission gas release.
16 We have also made a longer solid bottom end plug 17 to prevent clad fretting due to debris at the bottom grid, 18 which we have had experience with in operating plants, and 19 the low linear power in conjunction with the advanced 20 features gives us confidence that we can achieve assembly-21 average burnups of more than 60,000' megawatt days per metric
-22 ton, which is one of the utility requirements that's in the
-23 URD.
24 DR. POWERS:
Can you tell us what that confidence 25 is born of?
O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIA2hS, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,-Suite 300 Washington, D.C, 20005 (202) 842-0034 i
l 47 1
MR. VIJUK: -What is it born of?
2 DR. POWERS:
Yes.
Why should you huve confidence 3
in light of' experiments going on in France and Japan that 4
suggest the fuel changes pretty radically above 60,000 5
megawatt days.
6 MR.'VIJUK:
I'm not the expert in this area, but I 7-am. familiar a little bit with what we have experienced f
8-recently in the incomplete rod insertion and that issue, and 9-this is talking about an assembly average burnup.
10 I think people tend to talk in terms of the peak 11 rod burnup and the regulatory limit I believe is 62,000 12 megawatt days per metric ton.
13 I checked on this, actually this morning, to find 14 out from our fuel decigners what does this mean for AP600, 15 and what they told.me was that we would come nowhcre near a l
16 burnup problem in the first cycle of AP600, which is what 17 the design certification is-based on, and the -- but in the 18 equilibrium cycle we would approach.a number with a 24-month 19 fuel cycle, AP600 would approach 64,000 megawatt days per 20 metric ton, which if we had to meet the 62,000, which would 21-be like a 3 percent effect on the overall fuel cycle length.
'22 However, we fully anticipate by the time we get to 23-an AP600 going into a cycle beyond the first cycle that we 24 will have worked through these burnup questions at this 25 range and have provided the evidence that higher burnups are O.-
Court Reporters ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
48 1
1 okay.
()
2
!MR. POWERS:
So'the concerns about the aoility of 3
clad to withstand the power insertion ramps and design 1
4 criteria like that hasn't'been part of this. consideration 5
here, how we see fuel blowing up at things like 100 calories i
i-6 per gram kind of inputs and things like that once they get-7 up to these higher burnups?
i 8
-That 60,000 is probably down to 36 calories per 9
- gram, i'
10 MR. VIJUK:
Yes.
The Westinghouse fuel designers 11 are deeply entrenched in understanding all of this stuff.
12 What we have put into AP600 is based on that experience and-13 that body of knc ledge.
14 I am not able to quote it here but that is --
()
15
.there have been many kinds of tests and lots of operational 16 data that provides a body of knowledge that serves as the 17 basis for what we are doing on AP600.
18 I'll get into the reactivity-control features on
.19 the AP600.
20 Here we are doing something a little bit different 21 than. standard plants, although we have the same kinds of 22 features.
We have soluble boron, rod cluster control 23 assemblies and burnable absorbers, all ways of controlling 24 reactivity in.the core over the fuel cycle.
25 We'are using the gray rods tuat I mentioned and in O
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 1 Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) E42-0034
49 1
a mechanical shim strategy so that we can do load follow
()
7 operations, power maneuvering without changing the boron 3
concentration in the reactor coolant.
4 Here !s the definition of what black and gray 5
are -- the silver indium cadmium in the black rods.
In the 6
gray rod we have four of the 24 rodlets or silver indium 7
cadmium and the other 20 rodlets are stainless steel 304.
8 I think the next thing I have shows the way they 9
are configured in the core.
10 The M0 and M1 banks-here are the locations that 11 have the gray rods -- M2 and M3 are black rods but they are 12 also part of the MSHIM strategy.
There is an axial offset 13 control bank -- the AO banks -- and then there's three 14 shutdown banks.
()
15-In load follow operation, the M banks are used 16 to compensate for the -- make the power maneuvers compensate 17 for the xenon effects and the A0 rods provide axial offset 18 control, so that the combination of the M banks.and the A0 19 banks provide the-capability to do a load follow, like a 20 daily load follow would be something like 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br /> at 100 21 percent power, two hour ramp down to 50 percent, 8 hours9.259259e-5 days <br />0.00222 hours <br />1.322751e-5 weeks <br />3.044e-6 months <br /> at 22 50 percent, two hour ramp back up to 100 percent -- and you 23 can do that'in this reactor design without changing the 24 boron concentration, so you don't -- it simplifies the L25 processing of reactor coolant and the equipment needed for O
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,-Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
50 1
that.
2 DR. MILLER:
What is the difference between the 3
gray rod and the black rod?
I am still not clear -- besides 4
they have different materials.
5 What is the difference in-effect on reactivity?
6 MR. VIJUK:
I can give you sort of a feel for that.
I don't have the number but the gray rods are very 8
like poison compared to the-black rods and it's -- we have 9
four of the 24 rodlets in the gray rod are like the-24 10 rodlets in the black rod no its' work is probably on that 11 same ratio.
12 DR MILLER:
On that ratio, one to six then?
13 MR. VIJUK:
The stainless steel rodlets provide 14 some degree of poisoning but very small compared to the 15 silver indium cadmium.
16 DR. MILLER:
Do they act kind of like what I am 17 used to a research reactor -- we_ call them regulating rods
-18 versus shim rods.
19 MR. VIJUK:
That is exactly what their purpose is
~20 in -- this design, in fact, is a kind of. fine-tuning of 21:
reactivity.
22 DR. SEALE:
So you don't have to change the boron 23 concentration.
24 DR. MILLER:
Right, I understand that part.
25 MR. VIJUK:
Some aspects of-the nuclear design =--
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court' Reporters
-1250--I Street,-N.W., Suite 300-Washington,-D.C. 20005 (202) 842_-0034
51 1
theJreactivity coefficients for the various effects are 2.
comparable to the standard Westinghouse core design.
3 Tha moderator temperature coefficient specifically 4
n 4;
is negative over the full range of expected operating 5'
conditions.
Again, this was a utility requirement.
6 The reactivity control systems ensure power 7
distribution control as well.as to ensure shutdown 8
capability.
As-I mentioned, we use.the -- we control axial-9 offset with the rods.
10 We meet the URD energy -- cycle energy requirement i
11 of a 24 month fuel cycle with an 87 percent capacity factor 12 and all applicable general design criteria are met with the 13 core-design.
14 The therraal hydraulic design of the core is-
)
15 comparable to the standard designs as well.
16 DNB and vibration evaluation testing performed, 17 including the modified Vantage-5-H grid design, so it's 18 based on-existing technology.
19
- We modified the'DNB correlation for low flow 20 conditions since with the' canned motor _reactorLcoolant pumps 21
~the flow coast-down 'is f aster in AP600 than _ ' is in the 22 standard plant, which has Shaftsfield pumps with large 23 flywheels on it, so we had to extend the DNB correlations 24 down to lower flow conditions, 25 We have done that and that's been through the
[
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATHS, LTD.
%)
Court Reporters
-1250-I Street,--N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
i 52 1
Staff review as well, and from a thermal hydraulic
()
2 standpoint, all_the cerformance and safety requirements are l
3 met.
l 4
CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Ron, are you going to Chapter 5 5
next?
l-6-
MR. VIJUK:
Yes.
7 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Before we go into Chapter i 1
8
-would this be a good time to take a break?
9 MR. VIJUK:
Surt.
10 CRAIRMAN BARTON:
All right.
We'll take a 11 15-minute break and reconvene at five of 3:00, 12
[ Recess.)
13 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
We'll reconvene.
14 Ron,=before you go onto Chapter 5, I believe there
(
O) -
(_
15 was some questions on some of the material you covered in 16 Chapter 4, so --
17 MR. VIJUK:
Okay._
18 DR.-POWERS:
Mr. Chairman, before we walk away
-19 from the core, I wonder is there a time when we plan to walk
-20 through a rod-ejection accident?
21 CHAIRMAN BARTON:- Would you like to do that now?
22 DR. POWERS:
I mean it's a Chapter 15 kind of
-23 analysis, isn't it?
24-MR'. HUFFMAN:
Yeah.
This is Bill Hoffman --
-25 MR. VIJUK:
We can do that now.
()
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250--I Streeti N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
... ~. -. - -
53 1-MR.HUFFMAN:
-- from NRC projects.. Yeah, that
()=
2 I think that would be covered'in Chapter 15.
~3 DR. POWERS:
Okay.
\\
4 MR. HUFFMAN:
We don't have the appropriate staff 5-
-here, 6;
DR. POWERS:
I can wait till'the appropriate time, l
'7 whenever that is on this enduring agenda.. But I definitely 8
would.like-to walk through a rod ejection accident, and i
9
-especially'for something ---for looking at ejections around 10 critical' locations within the core and these gray rods.
111 DR. KRESS:
With the 60,000 megawatt days burn-up.
12 DR. POWERS:
Whatever their design limit is.
More
-13 is better, and I would definitely like to hear why they 14 think the-r:omputer codes they-have available are suitable 15 for that.
16 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
I think Dr. Miller has some 17 Chapter-4 18 DR. MILLER:
I don't really have a' question.
I 19 just tnought there were a couple of significant items, ar
>20 least I kind of-look at the-I&C area.
In the core area that-21 7-thought were significant, one, none of.the I&C leads come 22 from the bottom, as they have in the past.
23 MR. VIJUK:'
That's correct.
24' DR. MILLER:
Significant.
And a;90, I thought the 25 most significant thing, maybe-it is just because I have a
<(
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Couru Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 l
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 i
54 1-always. thought'ittwas one of Westinghouse's weaknesses, that
()
2 they now'have a fixed-in-core instrument system versus the, 3
and, I'll speak, paraphrase the operators, the abominable 1
-4 traveling-core fission chamber, finallyfhave caught up to 5
today's technology.
-6 MR. VIJUK:
That's -- we heard that same -- same f
7 thing frcm our utility. friends, and that is why it is 8-different, l.
9 DR.' MILLER:
And I think~it was -- it was1 -- ano.
10 I'll-make this' comment probably tomorrow, too, appropriate 11 that you not specify what kind of in-core system you would
~ have, even-though the WCAP did say you could have one type.
12 13-I thought that was -- those are two major 14 differences I thought in that-core.
l i
15.
MR. VIJUK:
You're right.
You're right.
16 DR. MILLER:
From my point, _at least.
17 MR. VIJUK:
And I think I have some in --
18 DR MILLER:
Plus the gray _ rods.
19 MR. VIJUK:
-- under the reactor coolant system 20-about the top mounted ~ detectors,
- 21 DR. MILLER:
.Oh, you.had it in that part.
Okay.
22 MR. VIJUK: 'But youLare right, that is a-23 difference between AP600 and a standard Westinghouse plant.
2 4 --
CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Any other questions or comments 25
'on Chapter 4?
Okay.
x ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
_ N Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
-l 55 1
Go' ahead,_Ron.
Thanks.
()
12:
MR. VIJUK:
Okay. _ Chapter 5.is reactor coolant 3 --
-system.and its associated' systems.- This is view of the 4
reactor coolant system.- The main difference again is-;the L-.
-5 use of, again,-reactor and coolant pumps.
We-have two of 6^
them that monitor the steam generator channel heads.
This
-7 allows us to use-main loop piping that doesn't require any 8
crossover leg, therefore, keeps all the-piping above the 9:
reactor _ core, which is-a safety benefit.
10
-The -- let's see.
What else-is different?
The pressurizer is bigger, I'll get into that a bit.
I'll talk 12 a little more about what the steam generator design is.
I 13 have already covered the reactor.
14 Our approach-on over-pressure-protection is a bit
()
15 Ldifferent._ Again, this goes to the utility requirements in 16 that in the standard design'we typically have, in addition 17 to two safety valves, we have power-operated relief valves 18 whose function is to, if you'get a malfunction that cause 19-the: pressure.to go up in the primary. system,-first, the PRVs H
120-would open, and if it is a mild upset, you avoid opening the
-21
. safety valves by' opening your PRVs first.
22-In AP600 we accomplish-the same function by using 23j
_a much bigger pressurizer.
We.have this, in a typical tube
- 24
' plant, this is a 1,000 cubic feet; in AP600, it is 1600 25-cubic feet, so it is much bigger.
And so we use, we just ANN RILEY-& ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
a 56 1
-have the two safety. valves and we can=on a -- avoid, similar
()
2 to-PRVs, we can avoid' lifting the safety valves for normal 3
'and upset conditions by having the bigger pressurizer.
4-MR. CARROLL:
No;1oop seals?
5 MR VIJUK:
No loop seals on the_ safety valves.
6 That is to prevent the set point drift that we have seen 7'
with the loop shield types.
8 MR. CARROLL:
Loop seals were put in to solve 9
another problem.
10 MR. VIJUK:
- Yeah, Mike, can you say more about 11 that?
12 MR. CORLETTI:
Yes.
This is Mike Corletti.from 13 Westinghouse.
Recent developments in flexi-disk type safety 14 valves allowed-the use of -- eliminating of the water loop 15 seal which was originally put in to minimize leakage through 16 --
the safety valves, and that-is the type that we_are -- the 17 type of valve we intend to use there.
18 MR. CARROLL: :Okay.
19 MR. CORLETTI:
For this application.
20 MR. CARROLL:
And the hydrogen diffusion problem 21 isn't 22 MR. CORLETTI:
We do not expect thatoto be an 23 issue.
24 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
Have you tried this in an 25 operating plant?
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street,- N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034 e
57
^
l' MR. CORLETTI:
Oh, yes.
There are. plants 1
1
- l) 2 operating today
- with-the -- with the flexi-disk safety
+
3:
valves andLexperiencing very low leakage.
4 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
..5 MR~ VIJUK:
The AP600 has also automatic 6-de-pressurization valves, which-is part of the -- they are
.n 7
,there because-of -- to function along with the passive 4 -
8 safety systems, but they are part of the reactor cooling
)
9 system, so'I.will mention them here.
10-We have the reactor -- reactor coolant pressure.
11 boundary valves,:they operate with the passive core cooling 12 syst'm.
There are three stages of-de-pressurization valves-1 13-
'on the pressurizer.
These have -- each of these, and 14 there's two sets of them, and each-pathway has a motor --
k 15 two motor operated valves, a gate valve and a globe valve in i
i 16 series, and both=normally closed.
1
-17' And we have the fourth stage of. ADS connected'to-18 the hot legs of:the reactor coolant' system, and these, 19 there's four pathways to -- on each hot leg, and each
'20'
. pathway has a squib valve in series with the normally open 21 motor-operated valve.
22-DR. POWERS:
Can the motor-operated valve close
- 23 against the stage four de-pressurization?
l=
124 MR. VIJUK:
Yes.
25 MR. CORLETTI:
Yes.
The valves can close against l~?
Y ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES,-LTD.
Court Reporters 1250=I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
_._.m.
58
'l the blowdown forces.
()
2 DR. POWERS:
That is known from experiment or.
3-analysis?
4 MR. CORLETTI:
Basically, the sizing of the 5
motor-operators, they are' sufficient to close.
6' MR. CARROLL:
And these are DC?
7-MR. VIJUK:
Yes.
8 MR. CORLETTI:
DC powered.
9 MR. CARROLL:
And you are aware of all the 10 problems people in the past have had with DC motor-operated 11
-valves and getting enough power to the motors?
12 MR. CORLETTI:
As far as the pressure locking and 13 all of those issues?
14 MR. CARROLL:
No, I was' thinking of some of the 15 electrical. issues.
16
-)MR. VIJUK:
Yeah, we have worked with the vendors 17 on motor-operators and these are capable of'doing-the job.
18 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
191 MR. VIJUK:
A closely associated system to the 20 reactor coolant system is the normal residual heat removal-21 system that provides'the heat removal from the core--in
- hutdown modes.
In the AP600 design this system has no 22 s
23 active safety functions.
This is different than.in the 24-
. current-plants, where it would have active: safety functions.
25 It's a safety class 1/3 pressure boundary classification and ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 200 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
59 11:
-it!_s seismic category:I_because it is carrying reactor 2
coolant during the shutdown conditions.
- 3.
It prostdes these defense-in-depth functions.:
It-
.4,
has-'the capability to make up at low RCS pressures,.and we.
-5=
use that capability as the first line of defense for makeup.
6 in a loss-of-coolant accident, for example.
It provides
- 7 low-temperature overpressure _ protection by providing.a 8
relief valve:inside containment for LTOP scenarios in 9
shutdown 1 conditions so that.it has sufficient capacity to
. _3 10
-deal with_those low-pressure conditions and keep the reactor l:L1
' coolant-system within'the pressure / temperature limits.
12 Some' inner system LOCA enhancements associated 13 with.the normal RHR system compared to current plants.
The 14-
. ultimate rupture. strength of this system is greater than the
()
15 RCS operating pressure, so-that in the event that a lot of 16 ;
things went wrong and you connected this_. system with RCS at
-17 full pressure, it would'not. fail.
And this meets:the 18
- guidance of SECY-90-016.
19 MR. CARROLL:
That includes heat exchanger. tubes 2 0 :-
and --
21 MR.JVIJUK:
Yes.
22-
.MR; CARROLL:
Pump seals?l 23-MR. VIJUK:
Yes,-I think pump seals are still kind 24 ~
Lof a question.
25-MR. CORLETTI:
,To the. extent practicable it's ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
~
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
1 60 1 _-
designed to the. ultimate rupture-strength of the operating
()
2 pressure; the mechanical seal on the pump is not itself 3
capable of withstanding' full RCS pressure.
However, we've 4
designed a what we call-disaster bushing that would limit 5
the leakage from the mechanical seal _to less.than 100 gpm or 6
within the capabilities of the normal makeups.
7 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
8 MR. CORLETTI:
When exposed to full RCS pressure.
9 MR. VIJUK:
We have additional isolation valves 10 between the RCS and the low-pressure part of the normal RHR 11 system.
We have three valves in series.
12 We have as I mentioned-a relief valve inside 13 containment for the overpressure relief, or if you connected 14' to the primary system at higher pressures it_would relieve
)
15 the inside containment.
And we have built into the logic 16 system interlocks to prevent the valves from opening when-17:
the RCS is in high pressure, so it takes multiple failures 18 to cause the system to be lined at the wrong pressure.
19 DR. UHRIG:
Some of the isolation valves are check 20 valves?
21 MR. VIJUK:
On the suctiva side they are-22 motor-operated valves.
23
-DR. UHRIG:
Motor-operated.
24 MR. VIJUK:
Yes.
On the discharge side there are 25-check valves in there.
5 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
61 1
MR. CORLETTI:
And.there is-one motor-operated
()
2.
containment isolation valve.
3 MR. VIJUK:
On the discharge side.
4 MR. CORLETTI:
On:the discharge side also.
S MR. VIJUK:
We've also done a number of things 6
relative to this system-to make.it more tolerant of reduced 7
-inventory _or midloop conditions. -We have the -'- we've 8
designed into the-protection system logic-that the passive 9:
systems can be available during mid-loopEor are available 10 during mid-loop in the event you lose normal RHR cooling
-11 capability.
We have --
12 MR. CARROLL:
Now is that going to be tech-sp60'd?
13 MR VIJUK:
Yes, it is.
14 MR. CARROLL:
Because you may want to do
- 15 maintenance on passive systems during_this same period of 16 time, so you can't take them all out.
17 MR. VIJUK:
That's right, not during-reduced 18 inventory operations.
19-MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
20 DR.1WALLIS:
Could you tell me what.mid-loop is?
21 MR.~VIJUK:
Yes -- do you know the official 22 definition,' Mike?
2 31 MR. CORLETTI:
The way we interpret -- we.use it 24 is;any reduced inventory state where we would reduce the 25-direct coolant system water level to somewhere in the hot
()
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
~
~_
62 1
leg to permit certain types of maintenance such as insertion O'
2 !
~
g of nozzle. dams in the steam generator or to'do maintenance E
3 on instrumentation that requires the system level to be 4
reduced.
4 DR. WALLIS:.There have been a number of-events 6
where --
7 DR. POWERS:
During mid-loop operation.
[
8 DR. WALLIS:
During mid-loop where some sort of 9
scary things happened.
10.
MR. VIJUK:
Yes,~you're operating with the level 11 in the reactor coolant system at-ab;ut 80-percent level in 12 the hot-legs, so you have a relatively low inventory of 13 coolant-above the core at that' point.
1 14 DR. POWERS:
Well, more importantly you typically.
15 only haveLone heat-removal system available to-you during 16-mid-loop operations.
1 k
-17 MR. VIJUK:
Right, and your normal --
18 -
DR. POWERS:
And so a failure in that puts you 19 into --
3 20 MR. VIJUK:
Right.
L 21.
DR. POWERS:
Into a place you do not want to be.
22 MR. VIJUK:
We've designed:the suction side 23 connection for the normal RHR system-comes off of the bottom 12 4 -
of the hot leg, and there we've provided a relatively 25 large-diameter pipe connection compared to the I think it's g
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
i Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005
}
(202) 842-0034
63 1-about 20-inch connection to the hot leg, and then a few feet
()
2 fdown it goes into the normal line size, which is-12 inch 3
or -- 12 inch.
And we've.done testing on this relative to
~
4-vortex formation and -- that can'cause air entrapment into 5
the pump and cause problems in the pump, and so we've come 6
up with this particular design;as being the 7
least-susceptible design for vortexing.
8-We've offset the loop --
9-
-DR. POWERS:
The words-ycu selected are 10 interesting.
The least-susceptible.
That means that it has 11 still some susceptibility that protects it?.
12 MR. VIJUK:
Very little.
Mike, do you remember 13 the test information?
14 MR. CORLETTI:
Our tests showed that when you 15 reduce the level basically as low as you can go and still 16 support your pump flow rate of 2,000'gpm that the maximum 17 air entrainment that we saw into the pump suction was on the 18-order of.5 percent, and the particular pumps that we have 19 selected, they can operate with such levels of air 20 entrainment, you know,-15 percent is an upper limit where 21 you start questioning the operability of a pump to continue 22' to operate.
So basically what we're-saying is you can-23 reduce the level to very low levels, at low as you could 24 reasonably assume, and still maintain the' flow, and you 25 would still have air entrainment no more than 5 percent.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
64 1-DR. POWERS:
And what temperatures did you test 2
them at?
3' MR. CARROLL:
Yes, that's --
4 MR. CORLETTI:
We did temperatures'at ambient 5-conditions.- However, at higher temperatures the NPSH 6
requirements that we have on our pump is that they are able 7
to maintain sufficient.NPSH with fully saturated _ conditions 8
in the RCS.
So the pumps ~are located very low relative to 9-the loop, relative to the loops.-
10 MR. CARROLL:
But the combination of that and air 11
~ entrainment is okay?
12 MR. CORLETTI:
Yes, I don't -- my understanding, 13 our belief that there's not really an effect there as far as 14 air entrainment with high temperature is not an effect.
15 MR. CARROLL:
- Steam, 16 MR. CORLETTI:
Certainly, yes.
With steam,-
17 that's -- basically that is where I was apeaking of tue 18 NPSH.
When_we do, you know, our NPSH evaluations, we have 19 done it with saturation conditions.
Now since our pump is 20 relatively low compared with the loop piping,- there is an 21 amount of sub pulling that you get at the pump suction due 22 1to that elevation.
23 MR. CARROLL:
So when you say saturated, you mean
=24 saturated up at the --
25 MR. CORLETTI:
Yes, right.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
65 1
DR. SEALE:
Right at the breach.
()
2 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
3 MR. VIJUK:
The loop piping is offset.
This means 4.
that the cold legs are higher than the hot legs, so the 5
level that you have to go to to be able to put nozzle dams 6
in the steam generators is higher in the hot leg than it 7
would be in the standard design where the loops are 8
essentially the same level.
So our minimum mid-loop level 9
is still at 80-percent of the hot leg compared to like 50 10 percent in the standard plant.
11 We have designed the routing of the pump suction line so that there's no local high points; it's self-venting 12 i
13 by virtue of that feature.
There's no throttling of RHR 14 flows required for mid-loop operation, so you don't have 15 to -- the pumps will run at their normal speed all the time.
16 There's no throttling of the flow, li, 17 We've also provided some instrumentation 18 enhancements for shutdown conditions.
19 We have hot-leg level instruments that are 20 redundant and safety-related.
21 They're used for some automatic isolation of 22 letdown on low level.
23 They're used to automatically actuate the gravity injection from the in-containment refueling water storage 24 25 tank on'an essentially empty level in the hot leg with a
(\\
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
k/
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
4 66 1
30-minute time delay, and that's based on the time you have
- ()
2 before you would start to challenge inventory in the core 3
itself.
4 MR. CARROLL:
Now I seem to remember that we came 5
up with some sequence where you were installing nozzle dams 6
and lost-level, and depending on if you had one in'you could
.7 push the level down in the core in a big. hurry, I don't 8
really remember what that scenario was.
You guys look'like l
9.
.you -- in much less time than 30 minutes,- if I remember.
10 EMR. CORLETTI:
You're saying for your plants 1
11-today?
12 MR. CARROLL:
Yes.
~
13 MR. CORLETTI:
That may be -- I'm not-sure 14 speaking to that -- but maybe the use of the steam
("X (m,/
15 generators as a heat sink basically-in your plant today you 16 want to maintain as long as possible with one-steam 17 generator as a possible heat sink, and maybe -- and 18 basically if you were limited on your venting, what could 19 happen-is if'you started steaming, that could depress -- and 20 you didn't have sufficient heat removal with your steam
-21 generators, it could depress the level.
The thing that we've done to alleviate that is 22 1
-23 requiring the ADS valves on the pressurizer to be open 24 during mid-loop.
25 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court-Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Wasnington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
. ~ -. - - -.. ~. -....... - - -
67 1-MR. CORLETTIt-So basically that provides a vent'
()
~2 path through the pressurizer to prevent --
l 3
MR. CARROLL - Ah, Okay.
4 MR =CORLETTI:
Such a condition.
5 MR. CARROLL:
Very good.
I like that.
One more 6-advantage of passive systems.
7
-DR MILLER:
It improved the shutdown reliability, 8
didn't it?
I 9
MR. VIJUK:
We've extended the pressurizer wide e
10 range level instrument down--to the' bottom of the hot leg so 11'
'that there's_always an' indication of where the water level 12 is when you go from normal operating level down to mid-loop.
13-We have the hot-leg temperature measurements, the 14 hot-leg temperature indicators are on the bottom of the hot
'i
. k[]Y 15 leg, so that they will even during mid-loop operation 16
-provide an indication of what the reactor coolant 17 temperature and the core exit thermocouples are in during-18 this mid-loop operation as well.
19 DR. WALLIS:
This level, that's a delta p 20
-measurement?
I;
-21 MR. VIJUK:
Yes.
22 DR. WALLIS:
c So if there were flow in the surge 23 line, wouldn't that -- you have to interpret it somehow.
-24 MR. VIJUK:
Yes, you would.
During the operations 25 that get you from normal to mid-loop, the flow would be O
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
-... ~
68 i
c1
_very, very low,--and just draining, basically.
4
()
2 IMI. MILLER:
I didn't look back at chapter 5, but 3-do you have a WCAP that tells you how you might implement i -
4 that particular measurement, that pressurizer level li 5
measurement?
Is it in chapter 5, how you do it, or just say 6
you do do it?
7; MR. VIJUK:
This feature?
This is just to provide ll 8-an indication as you're going --
9 DR. MILLER:
Yes, I understand what it does, 10 but physically how does the instrument -- I'm following up t
11 on -- is it just a tap or a delta P measurement?
4 12.
MR. VIJUK:
It just taps, yes, delta.P --
13 MR. CORLETTI:
Right.
In current plants the cold 14 calibrated wide-range pressure-level instrument just spans
()
15 the pressurizer essentially.
We just take the tap off the 16
" bottom of-the hot leg to provide you of an indication from 17 the level bottom of the hot leg up to the top of the 18 pressurizer.
And it's calibrated for cold conditions.
I'm 19 not sure.anything more --
20 MR VIJUK:
It's not meant for postaccident --
-21 MR. CORLETTI:
Right.
22 MR. VIJUK:
Kind of monitoring, if that's what you 23 mean.
24 DR. MILLER:
Okay.
So that's not safety-related 25 or even postaccident --
()
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
69 11l MR. CORLETTI:
No, that's right.
2
.MR. VIJUK:
That's right.
3 DR.' MILLER:
I thought the core-exit thermocouples 4-aren't used during -- available during shutdown.
5~
MR. VIJUK:
Well, they come out with as in'our 6
- design, I guess there's not a difference here_really.
7 DR._ MILLER:
Right.
Okay.
So that's the same --
8 MR. VIJUK:
The-hot-leg instruments are different 9
in that they're on the bottom of the hot leg as opposed'to 10=
.on the top.
11 DR. MILLER:
Right.
11 2 There_were a couple of items that were on the list 13 of ACRS items that came up in previous meetings that I would 14 like to speak to.
There were actually three things.
O
(,/
15 One of-them has to do with RCS leak decection and 16 the other two have to do with the safe shutdown condition,
{
- 17 so I am not sure exactly what the question is.
The list I 18
.saw was kind of terse, so basically 1 am putting this up_and-19 giving you the opportunityLto ask about it.
20 MR. CARROLL:
I asked the first question --
-21 MR. VIJUK:
On leak detection?
22 MR. CARROLL:
-- in December, 1996,-and I can't 23 remember what I asked.
24 MR. VIJUK':.Okay.
Well, let me summarize what we 25 are doing relative to the leak detection and then if need be
[\\
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
\\~
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
1 l
70
- 1 --
we can get-into more specifics.
()
2-DR, POWERS: ~The first questionryou asked was over
- 3 what time does it take to' detect-a half a gallon per minute 4'
leak rate, 5
MR. VIJUKi Okay, and the answer to that is we 6:
have_the capability to detect,that within one hour, 7
DR. MILLER:
Is-there a standard or a Reg Guide on 8-that requirement, or is-that a utility requirement' document?
9' MR. VIJUK:
I don't think_the URD has any real --
10 DR. MILLER:
I am justl wondering where --
11 MR. CORLETTI:
Reg Guide 145 speaks to reactor 12
' coolant pressure boundaries, leak-detection.
13 I can't swear though as'far as does it have the-14 sampling time in it, but I was going to look at it.
15 MR. VIJUK:Will youtlook that_up, Mike?.
116 MR. CORLETTI:
Yes.
17 MR. CARROLL:
In a summary oflACRS questions,_I
- 18
_ guess,I did ask in May of.1995-if your leak detection 19-methods support leak-before-break piping designs?
20 MR. VIJUK:
Yes, they do, and we-have three 21.
different ways of detecting leakage in the design.
122-We monitor containment sump level so-we know when 23 lthere is something abnormal going on in the containment.
24 We have airborne gaseous radioactivity monitors 25 that monitor _N13 and F18 gases so that we know from a
~(
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
71 1-
~ radioactive standpoint _if something is happening in.
_.O' 2
Leontainment, and we have a --
3 MR. CARROLL:
Do they discriminate so that you are 4
measuring only Nitrogen-13, for example?_
5~
MR. VIJUK:
Yes, I believe so.
That is my 6
understanding.
7' MR._ CARROLL: _Okay.
8 MR. VIJUK:
There are specific monitors --
=9 MR. CARROLL:
So they cancel out any_ fuel defects 10 you may have?
11_
MR. VIJUK:
Apparently that is the idea behind=it.
12 Can you ---
13 MR. CORLETTI:
Yes.
There separate -- for 14-Nitrogen-13 and Fluoride-18, I believe.
15' MR. CARROLL:
Yes.
16 DR. WALLIS:
Am I being naive, but this looks to 17 me.like if-you are using the containment sump to measure a 18 leak-like that, that's just like having.a dripping faucet in 19
.the bathroom and measuring it in the sump, isn't it?
How 20 does it get there?_
It takes forever.
21 MR. CARROLL:- And it evaporates on the way.
-22 DR. WALLIS:
ItLtakes forever.
Next year.
23 MR. VIJUK:
Half a gallon-a minute.
The sump is 24'
_only 100 gallon or something on that order, right?
25 DR. WALLIS:
It has to get there.
[
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
3 72
- 11 LMR-CORLBTTI4 ~ Yes, this is fairly standard.
r-r 2
However, most thinga are routed to the. sump, like the-
{
-- - 3 '
condensate from theLfan cooler and the floor drains also are
-4 all routed.to the sump, so that with the'other combined --
5 basically it's all three methods are used.
6 MR.. CARROLL:
The fan coolers are-really key to 7-this, because any moisture gets condensed in them and runs 8
into the sump, so if you have a leak, you are going to see a 9
change.
10-MR. CORLETTI:
Reg Guide 145 -- that was the 11:
previous question -- does recommend the sampling times.
, 12 within one hour, to be able to sense leakage within an hour,
- 13, increase in leakage within an hour.
. 14 DR. MILLER:
I'm certain as to your conformance b
\\,,/
15
. ith Reg Guides and' standards, that is in the list, I w
f16 assume?
17 MR. VIJUK:
-Yes, in Chapter 1.
18 MR. CORLETTI:
The statement conforms, yes.
19' RDR. MILLER:
Yes,.okay.
20
'MR. VIJUK:
And this approach ':bt the half a GPM, 21-it supports leak before break for flows in lines as small as J
22 four inches.
In reality, we are applying leak before break 23 in lines six inches and bigger, so we have some extra 24 capability.in our. leak detection system compared to the --
25 besides the pipe we.are actually applying leak before break.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
4 73 l'
MR. CARROLL:
So how much more leak'before break 1 ()
2 systems do you have than a standard plant today?
3 MR. VIJUK:
I don't think we are significantly-4 different from some plants that are using this approach.
5-Do you know, Mike?
6 MR. CORLETTI:
I don't know if the Staff would 7
care to comment.
I believe that it has been used for-loop 3
i 8
piping in reactor' coolant size -- I am not sure how low it' L
9 has been used.
I know it has been used for-loop piping;
-10 I am not sure --
1 11 MR. VIJUK: ' Leak before break?
12 MR. CORLETTI:
Leak before break, yes.
We use it 13 for lines down to -- we had hoped to use it-for lines down 14
-to fcur inch, but we did not come t'o agreement with the 15 Staff'on that.
4 16 MR. CARROLL:
So are you using.it on carbon 1 steel 17 systems like the steam line and feedwater?
18 MR. CORLETTI:
I do not believe the. Staff accepted 19 our proposal for the feedwater.
0 20 RMR. CARROLL:
How about steam?
21 MR. CORLETTI:
I do not believe -- no.
We are 22 using it-on --
23 MR. CARROLL:
Austenitic --
24
.MR. CORLETTI:
Portions of the passive' containment
, - cooling, the Class i lines, the core makeup tank lines --
4
(
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
\\
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034 i
. ~ _..., _,... _ _
74 l'
MR.- CARROLL:
And there you are just dealing with 2 '_
austenitic material?
3 MR. CORLETTI:
Yes.
4 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
I wish we'd push that issue.
5 because I think it is something that could really solve a 6
-lot of problems.
7 MR.-CORLETTI:
8 MR. CARROLL:
Yes.
9' MR. CORLETTI:
It was our opinion that we had a 10 technically defendable position for the feedlines but we did 11 not come to agreement.
12
-MR. CARROLL:
It sounds like something we.ought to 13
-get Mr. Shack involved in.
14 --
MR. VIJUK:
Anything else on leak detection?
15 MR. CARROLL:
No.
'16 MR. VIJUK:
The other two issues -- I think it-was 17 two'that were listed -- were relative to the 420 degree safe
.18 shutdown temperature condition.
19
.This is related to the capabilities of the passive 20-safety system, in particularly the passive residual heat 21 removal system, which is a heat exchanger that is-located in 22-containment refueling water storage tank and in a non-LOCA-2 3 _-
event, you_go on cooling of your chief' safe shutdown with 24 safety related equipment by going on to that passive RHR 25 system and using the rods to shut down the reactor, so what-b ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
75 1
we did to show this is a safe condition is to demonstrate
()
2 that we'd get an acceptable passive RHR performance and that 3
pipe rupture from this condition would not violate 5046 4
criteria and maybe --
5 and these are the criteria that uere set out in the SECY and 6
we demonstrated that we meet those and we have presented 7-that in a shutdown evaluation report that has been given to 8
the staff sometime ago now.
C-MR. CARROLL:
Now, in the real world, safe 10 shutdown with the non-safety-related systems is just the I
11 same as the present plant, Jess than 212.
This only --
12 MR. VIJUK:
We call it cold shutdown, yeah.
13 MR. CARROLL:
This only occurs if you don't have 14 the nor.-safety-related systems.
()
i,/
15 MR. VIJUK:
That's right.
And this puts you in a 16 condition when you are on passive RHR, or you're -- the 17 reactor coolant is not losing inventory, you are in a stable 18 condition and holding there are 420 degrees, and you can 19 stay in that condition for a long period of time.
There is 20 nothing like need for condensate water in a conventional 21 type system to force you to go to some other mode.
22 So it is a safe, stable condition that you can 23 stay in until you get whatever caused the problem fixed.
24 MR. CARROLL:
Has this been -- has your report 25 been approved the staff or is it still being evaluated?
I
\\
\\2 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
- -.. ~.
- _ ~..
76 1
MR. VIJUK:
I'llLlet.the' staff answer.
2 MR. HUFFMAN:
This is Bill Huffman, one of the.
3 AP600 project managers.
That review is nearly complete.
4
.There are some open items'in'it.
There's one or two that 5
concerns the -- I. won't call them design basis analysis, but 6-the shutdown analyses for these conditions.
.But by the time 7
we get around to discussing that, we hope that those will be 8
' resolved.
9 MR. CORLETTI:
One other comment.
This particular 10 evaluation has not been the subject ~of any FSER open items I
11 to date.
So we hope that means that it, this part of it has 12 been accepted, but we can't say_that at this point.
13 MR.-VIJUK:
I think what Mike is saying, there's 14 still some -- still some open items relative to this report, 15 but not to the 420 degree aspect of the' report.
16 MR.- CORLETTI:
That is correct.
No one on the 17 staff has questiNed that 420-degrees is the safe shutdown 18
- inistate for AP600.
~19 MR. VIJUK: 'Okay.
That covers what I had prepared-
- 2 0 ;-
sfor Chapter 5.
Well, I take that back.
Let me -- I have 21..
some component information here in various -- partly in-L 2 2..
Chapter 4, partly in-Chapter 5.
o 23,
- The reactor system, I think I am covering the same 24 ground again, but this is what the reactor assembly looks 25
'like with the core, the upper internals package, the guide ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
l 77 1
tubes and support columns, the upper head package, which is L()
2-
-- we call it integrated, upper head package.
So that all of 3
this, when you take the reactor vessel head off, all of the i
i 4
equipment on top, the head and everything comes out with
?
5
'this package.
6 MR. CARROLLt A few fuel elements hanging on the
~ 7 bottom of it.
8 MR. VIJUK:
Not by design.
9 DR. KRESS:
Hopefully not.
10 MR. VIJUK:
Not by design.
The lower internals, I 11 put this in-just so I.could point out the radial. reflector 12 that I mentioned earlier.
This is the -- around the 13 periphery of the core, it is mostly stainless steel with 14 cooling holes in it, and it is -- a couple of slides back
()
15 you can see more what it looks like in perspective.
It is 16 made up of these -- these cylindrical-type, stack of blocks, 17 if you will, that create this radial reflector around the 18 periphery of the core.
19
-AndLthis replaces baffle former-plates that we 20 used in there, in that region previously, and the region 21 between the-core and the core barrel was mostly, had water
.22 in it during operation.
Now, it mostly-has stainless steel 23 and that is how you get the reflector qualities of --
24 neutron reflector qualities around the periphery of the core 25 and that has a number, provides a number of advantages.
()
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-3034
-~~~""
78 1
.It reduces the fluence on the vessel relative to 2
embrittlement of the vessel such that the neutron per square
-3 centimeter hitting the reactor vessel-is on the order of 2 4
times 10 to the 19th over the 60 year life, versus current 5
plants which is'about 5 times 10 to the 19th ir 40 years, 6-and this is below the limit for causing embrittlement in the 7
reactor vessel.
8 It also eliminates the potential for-jetting of 9
water if you get a pressure difference between t.
fuel 10 assemblies on the periphery and the flow in the region 11 betweea the barrel and the assemblies of a phenomenon we 12 have experienced as baffle jetting, causing fuel wear. -We 13 have many fewer parts and fasteners in the baffle former 14 type of configuration and there are no fasteners -- no 15
-fasteners in the high flux region, so you reduce risk 16 -
corrosion cracking potential.
17 DR. SEARLE:
Are you convinced that you won't have 18 any_ internals cracking problems?
19-MR. VIJUK:
Internals cracking?
20 DR. SEARLE:
Of the stainless.
21-MR. VIJUK:
We-don't 'elieve we will have any of a those kind of problems.
We -- I am not a materials expert, 23 but we have -- we have looked at this carefully.
This 24-stainless steel, we have -- there is a temperature-related 25 effect in the stainless over a long time -- term that we ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005
-(202) 842-0034
79 1
have addressed by making sure we have adequate cooling in l l(
)
2 there to keep the temperatures below limits where the-3 neutron effects could cause problems.
So we think we have 4
addressedzthe issue.-
5 IMt. POWERS:
Your oxygen concentrations are low I
6 enough'that you probably don'c have'to worry _about 7-inner-granular. stress corrosion cracking of any type?-
d-MR. VIJUK:
I hope so.
I 9
DR. POWERS:
I would think so.
4 10 MR. VIJUK:- I will take.that.-as a comment, not as 2'
11 a question.
12 DR. POWERS:
Yeah.
It just strikes me that you-4 4-13_
- would, d
14 MR,-CARROLL:
Of course, unlike the boiling _ water
)
15 reactor, they do not have free oxygen floating around in 16
-there, a
i 17 IMt.. POWERS:
That's right.
In fact, there is a 18 strong oxygen deficit in these cores.-
l J19 ^
MR. CARROLL:
Wh::h do make a difference.
-20 MR. VIJUK:
The drive line that we have mentioned 21 earlier, as far as-the rod-drives, we have the conventional
~
22'
. control rod drive mechanistas connected to conventional type E22 rod cluster controls, as well as gray rods, so there is no 24-
!significant change there.
25 As was mentioned earlier though, we bring our ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
%/
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,
Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034-
80 1-in-core instrumentation in through the top of the vessel and
- (
)
- 2 we used fixed in-core detectors and they come in through 3
support column locations in the core through a guide 4
assembly such es this.
And this includes the neutron, the
-5 fixed in-core neutron detectors as well as the core exit 6
thermocouples.
7 MR. CARROLL:
A big improvement.
8 DR MILLER:
Yes.
9 MR. VIJUK:
The steam generator design is a Delta i
10 75 steam generator.
This is like the generators that we put L
11 in as replacement generators in some plants.
It is 75,000 1
12 square feet of the heat transfer area, typical.
Two loop 13 plant was on the order of 50,000 square feet, so it is a i
14 much higher capacity unit than the standard plant.
()
15 It has all the features that have evolved over the 16-
-many years of struggles with steam generators, most notably, 17 alloy 690 tubes and stainless steel supports, as well as a 18 number of other features that have proven effective in 19 reducing the damage to tubes over the operating life.
20 DR. POWERS:
How many tubes do you have in there?
21:
MR. VIJUK:
Beg pardon?
22 DR. POWERS:
How many tubes are there in there?
23' MR. VIJUK:
I don't F
'fhand.
I don't know.
24 We could -- I could look it up, ut it's somewhere between i
25 3,000 and 5,000, I would guess.
O' ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034 a
e
i l
l 81 1
DR. UHRIO:
The series 45, as I recall, had ubout
()
2 3,000, below 3,000.
3 MR. VIJUK:
Yeah.
So this would be probably
-4 closer to 5,000, I would guess.
5 The canned motor pumps, I mentioned.
Thiscis --
6 Westinghouse makes these pumps, our Electro-mechanical 7
Division.
They have made them for many years for_the Navy 8-applications and for some fossil plant applica.tions.
This 9
design is based on that technology.
We havr4 increased the rotating inertia of the assembly by putting a flywheel type 10-11
-assembly in the -- on the drive shaft the of pump and in the 12 bin.
13 As the name implies, all of the rotating parts are 14 canned within the pressure boundary, so you don't need a
()
15 seal system like we do with the shaft seal pumps in the -- a 16 special system to pump flow through the seals.
-17 DR. POWERS:
What are the downsides to this, side 18 to increasing the rotational inertia?
19 MR. VIJUK:
What are the downsides?
20 DR. POWERS:
Yes.
21 MR. VIJUK:
Well, of course, it adds additional 22 drag and load on the shaft.
We, in fact, built a prototype 23-of this assembly-and tested it ror vibration and drag losses 24>
and that-kind of thing and it does -- it adds to the drag i
25 losses and you itse some pump efficiency by having that
()
ANN RILEY & AFSOCIATES, LTD.
Cout'; Reporters 1250-I Street; N;W.,- Suite 300-Washington, D.C.
20005
-(202) 842-0034 g
n
~.
82 1
there.
()
2 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Does this have a way from i
3 preventing it from going backwards?
Is there any device in l
4 there?
-[
5 MR. VIJUK:
Where did We end up on that, Mike?
1 6
MR. CORLETTI:
I'm sorry
[
7 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Anti-rotation device?
8 MR. VIJUK:
Is there an anti-rotation device?
9 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Anti-rotation device?
f 10 MR. VIJUK:
In the pump, I-don't think so.
11 MR. CORLETTI:
It was in and it was out.
I 12 MR. VIJUK:
Yeah, we have gone back and forth on-l 13 that.
I 14 MR. CORLETTI:
I believe the base design now is we
)
15 do not have an'.j-rotation device.
+
- 16 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Do not-have it?
17
- MR. CORLETTI:
Right.
18 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
We can confirm that?
19 MR. CORLETTI:
Confirm that, yeah.
20-MR. CARROLL:
And what are the implications of 21
' that?
22 MR. CORLETTI:
Well, the implications were in t
23
. starting --
3 24 MR. CARROLL:
Is it free-spinning, 25 MR. CORLETTI:
Yes, is it free-spinning in the
()
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Screet, N.W, Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 l
(202) 842-0034 I
N 4
---,,,...,c,
~y. +.,
,w~,
,_.....m.s..
r
,...,,_,m,
.,g,,mo..m.,.,~,.,,,r,
..,....ymn__,_
83 1
reverse direction, and when you start one pump in the
()
2 opposite loop and then how you size the motor for starting.
3 Without -- with the anti-rotation device, of course, you 4
don't have to overcome the reverse rotation, t
5' We, in as far as our safety analysis --
6 MR. CARROLL:_ _ Without snapping the shaft.
7 DR. MILLER:
Yes.
8 MR._CORLETTI-As far as safety analysis-goes 9
though, we-have done it -- we-have used what was 10 conservative, what we believe is; conservative to allow for 11 either possibility.
12 MR. VIJUK:
Now, I am done with Chapter'4 and 5.
1J MR. CARROLL:
This pump needs cooling to thermal
'14 barrier, or something or other.
Where is the water for that 15
_ coming from?
16 MR. VIJUK:
Compound cooling water system provides
'17 cooling to the --
18 MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
And is that in operation when 19-you have lost all AC power?-
20 MR. VIJUK:
No, and neither is the pump.
21 MR. CARROLL:
Well, what happens to the pump then?
22:
.MR. CORLETTI:
It coasts down.
23 MR, VIJUK:
It coasts down and stops.
24_
MR. CORLETTI:
Sharing its warmth, 25 MR, CARROLL:
Okay.
How long does it take before
()
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters
-1250--I Street,- N W.; Suite 300 m.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 l
6 4
84 1
you have ruined the pump?
l I
()
2 MR. CORLETTI:
I think this was a question in f
3 December of '96 also.
t 4
[ Laughter.)
i 5
MR. CARROLL:
Sounds familiar.
i 6
MR.'CORLETTI:
Yes.
Basically, there_is no t
7 long-term damage to the pump.when you lose-cooling water _and 8
it coasts down.
9.
MR. CARROLL:
Okay.
So if I can restart power, I i
10 can run the pump.
11 MR.-CORLETTI:
Right.
You can restart it in an 12 hour1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br /> or 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> basically.
13 MR. CARROLL:
Write that down, Noel, so when we 14 have a meeting two years from now --
15 (Laughter.)
16 MR. CARROLL:
We won't ask the name question.
17 CHAIR!GN BARTON:
Chapter 11.
18 MR. VIJUK:
Okay.
Chapter 11.
I'll take us into 19 bankruptcy.
20 DR. SEARLE:
Sounds ominous.
21:
MR. VIJUK:
This chapter deals with' rad waste 22 system and the first part of the chapter talks about how we 23
' establish sourcc terms to use in the design and evaluation 24 of rad waste systems.
And we establish two different source 25 terms,fone on a design basis level and one to evaluate the t
[
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters y
1250 I Street,- N.W., Suite 300 I
Washis ' ton, D.C. 20005 (2v2) 842-0034 j
i
.+.,.,~4
+ _ - -
,_.v___-_-.
..._,_,-...m,.,
~......__.,.,
m_
..-,.m..,
.,._,..._,..-.m.
85 1
design on a more realistic basis.
()
2 On the design basis case, we assume a quarter 3
percent of the fuel generating power in the core is -- have l
4 defects in them and, on a realistic basis, it is based on 5
experience from operating plants in using an ANSI standard 6
to come up with the source terms.
7 DR. POWERS:
The 1984 standard had how many data 8
points based on 60,000 megawatt day fuel?
9 MR. VIJUK:
Beats me.
I don't know.
10 DR. POWERS:
It can't be too realistic then.
11 MR. VIJUK:
Wel'l, 12 MR. CARROLL:
Well, another question is, in 13 today's plants that are running at high burn-ups, how close 14 do any of them come to the quarter percent?
I think the 15 answer is a long way away from it.
16 MR. VIJUK:
Pight.
17 MR. CORLETTI:
That was in a long discussion 18 series that we had with the staff saying that we thought
.1 19 percent was a better number and the staff said, sorry, but 20 it has got to a be quarter percent, so it is a quarter 21 percent.
22 DR. KRESS:
Was this based --
23 MR. CARROLL:
That's what our grandfathers 24 thought.
25 DR. KRESS:
Was this based on the iodine spiking?
8 Adai RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 l
(202) 842-0034 l
a
~
86 1
MR. CARROLL:
Yeah, I think so.
()
2 MR. CORLETTI:
I really don't know the answer.
I 3
just remember it was a long discussion with the staff, and 4
it is a quarter percent because they said so.
5 Okay.
That's it.
6 DR. SEALE:
Well, there is really no database for 7
60,000 at this point, and there is more than just enhanced 8
burnup -- that is, the linear accumulation of enhanced-9 burnup.
There is also the question of enhanced cracking or 10 even powdering in the fuel with the attendant larger surface 11 or volume regions for iodine spiking to -- well, the iodine 12 to accumulate for iodine spiking.
13 So we are kind of waving a magical wand on this, 14 aren't we?
I assume the Staff will talk about this whenever
()
15 they give us some information.
16 DR. KRESS:
Well, this might show up in the steam 17 generator tube break analysis.
18 DR. SEALE:
As well, yes, 19 DR. KRESS:
Because I think what it does is fixes 20 this capacity of your cleanup system, which goes in to 21 determine the level of iodine that you might release out the 22 steam generator tube.
23 MR. CARROLL:
Which is the subiect of the next --
24 DR. KRESS:
Oh, is it?
25 MR. CARROLL:
I think.
()
7JN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300-Washington,.D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
l 87 1
DR. POWERS:
What you are going to find, I think,
()
2 is that at these relatively low levels their spiking is 3
going to be a good deal different than the famous 501 sort 4
of thing.
5 DR. KRESS:
That is what worries me, yes.
6 MR. VIJUK:
I think in the tube rupture analysis
'7 that pre-existing iodine spiking -- I am not sure it is the 8
same, we are talking the same thing here as what we use in 9
establishing the radwaste systems.
10 DR. POWERS:
Definitely not..
11 MR.-VIJUK:
So I-think we'll defer that to -- we 12 do deal with iodine in here but not on the same level or with the same conservatisms that you do when you are looking 13 14 at the tube rupture and you are looking_ at potential offsite 15.
-doses and things.
16 I think that would best be left'to Chapter 15 --
17 six, is it?
18 The source term we are talking about here, it 19 defines the activity, primary coolant activity levels that 20 go into the tech specs and'say if you get activity levels 21=
.beyond this,_you've got to do something.
-22 It is used in the design basis accident tose 23 analyses but not the LOCA dose.
That is a different source
- 24 term.
25:
It'provides the basis for the radwaste system ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250-I Street, N.W., Suite-300-Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
i 88 l.
1 design and for estimating the solid-radwaste generation in 4 ()
2 the plant and the basis for radiation shielding for normal
~
3 activities in the plant.
1 The tech specs are shown here.-- steady state j
5 iodine and iodine spike transient and the noble gas limit.
3 1
\\
6 Those are in the tech specs based on the generation source 7
- terms, 8
The ANSI source term or the realistic source term e
9 as they call it is used to calculate-anticipated annual 1
i 10 releases and fractions relative to 10 CFR 20 limits and it i
11-is used in evaluating the operating costs of the radwaste I
12 system as a more real indicator of what to expect and the 13 offsite release concentrations for -- this is again for i
14 normal. operations -- using the realistic source term you see
()
15 the percentages of the 10 CFR 20 limits and=with the design r
16 basis or conservative source term of course you get closer 17 to the limits but still a relatively small fraction, so we 18 stay well below the 10 CFR 20 limits.
19 One of the things that I think came out of the 20 Staff-review was that we adjust the source term to one 21 percent fuel defects for_ fission products other than iodine-4 22 and noble gases.
23 DR, UHRIG:
You've got 100 percent on iodine and 24-noble gas or-is it something less than that?
4 25 MR. VIJUK:
From 1 percent fuel defects.
Is v ()
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters
~
1250 I Street,-N.W., Suite-300-Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 4
.1.
89 1
that -- what is your question?
()
2 DR. UHRIG For iodine and noble ganes --
3 MR. CARROLL:
You assump a quarter percent fuel 4
defects.
5 DR. UHRIG Oh, okay.
6 DR. POWERS:
I think what Bob is asking is what is
-7 the release from the -- the inventory release to out of the 8
defected fuel rods which are released to the coolant from 9
the defected rods.
10 MR. VIJUK:
I assume it is 100 percent, yes, 11 DR. UHRIG:
Okay.
12 MR. VIJUK - Chapter 11, Section 11.2 talks about 13 the liquid radwaste system.
It is designed to collect 14 influents from various sources, from the radioactive waste
(
15 drain system which are drains from areas of the plant that 16 were -- there are radioactive liquids and there's floor 17 drains and so forth that any spillage or leakage would be 18 funneled into the liquid radwaste system.
i 19 The reactor coolant is let down, it's fed into the 20 liquid radwaste system, where it is processed by filtration 21 and ion exchange as are all of the inputs from the waste 22.
drain system 23 The chemical and detergent wastes are collected in 24 a separate part of the liquid radwaste system and they are 25 processed not by installed systems but by mobile systems,
(
IdR1 RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300-Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
~_._._m_._
t 90 1
depending on the particular need, the type of waste that you 2
- have, 3
The noncontaminated wastewater is segregated and i
4 processed separately _like the steam generator blowdown 5
system normally is not radioactive and it has its own system f
6 associated with it, but if you had enough leakage between 7
the primary and secondary system, enough activity in the
-l 8
primary water: to contaminate the steam generator blowdown 9
system, it can be diverted to this system for filtration and j
10 lon exchange processing.
11 DR, UHRIG Is there a reason why you use_ mobile 12 systems for the chemical and detergent waste?
13 MR, VIJUK:
- Yes, I guess the feedback from 14 operating plants says that this is an advantageous way to do 15-it from the standpoint of it may require different 16 processing depending on what chemicals or whether it is
- 17 detergent waste, this type of thing.
18 MR. CARROLL:
Or not require any?
19 MR. VIJUK:
Or not require any --
20-CHAIRMAN BARTON:
If you--are building a lot of 21-stuff _in the plant if you need it, you go_ contract it out?
22 MR VIJUK:
Right.
~
23 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
And then if you really establish
[ the need over time, you would want a permanent system, j
25 right?
ANN RILEY A ASSOCIATES, LTD.
-Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
91 1
MR. VIJUK:
Right.
2 The gaseous radwaste system deals with the 3
primarily hydrogen and traces of radioactive gases from the 4
primary system and the let down of the primary system.
5 There is a degasifier in the liquid radwaste system and the 6
gases that are taken off there.are fed into the gaseous 7
radwaste system.
8-It's processed by hold-up in a low-pressure 9
activated carbon delay beds to let the gases decay in the 10 beds before they are discharged.
It has design features 11 with nitrogen capability to prevent ignition of the hydrogen 12 and so forth and automatically dilute combustible mixtures 13-so -- to avoid the potential for hydrogen problems.
14 DR. POWERS:
Is that some sort of a passive -- it 15 says automatically dilute -- is that some sort of passive 16 thing or is it something that is actively done that has to 17 be instrumented?
18 MR. VIJUK:
It's active and it has to be 19 instrumented.
It is nitrogen gas.
It is passive in the
.20 sense that it is pressurized bottled gas that feeds in, but 21 valves-have to move and things like that -- it monitors 22 pressure and so forth.
23-DR. POWERS:
And so you have a combustible gas 24 detector that activates the system?
25-MR. VIJUK:
A hydrogen monitor, yes.
ANN RILE *~ & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
l Court Reporters l
--1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
l 92 i
-1 DR. POWERS:
And what are you using for a hydrogen 2
monitor?
1.
3 MR. VIJUK:
I don't know the specifico.
Do you, l
4 Mike?
5 MR. CORLETTI:
No.
I don't-know that we would 6
have specified that level of detail even.
7 DR. POWFRS:
In the SAR.
9 MR. CARROLL:
But you are not continuously 10 diluting with nitrogen?
This is for abnormal conditions 11 or --
12 MR. VIJUK:
Right.
If you get high -- if you've 13 got high concentrations of hydrogen in the gaseous radwaste 14-system, it would detect it and introduce nitrogen to dilute 15 it automatically.
16 DR. POWERS:
Could you manually overrun it?
I 17 mean if an operator thinks that the system is not working, 18 you can dilute --
19 MR. VIJUK:
I'm sure he could in this system, yes.
~
20 The solid radwaste system -- solid radwaste comes 21_
Lfrom a number-of place-and we are dealing with it in a 22 number of different ways.
23 Dry solid waste, processed-by mobile systems, 83 24-percent of all of the solid-waste is compactable dry solid 25 waste, less than 5 percent is noncompactable.
()
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD, Court Reporters 1250-I Street,--N.W.,-Suite-300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
93 1
Another 5 percent or so comes from spent resins
()
2 and filter elements from the wet systems.
They are
-3 dewatered and handled in the plant to put into the solid 4
radwaste storage area and ue have the mixed liquid and 5
chemical waste again that is processed by mobile systems, 6
and the solid that comes out of that processing makes up 7
about 7.5 percent of the total solid waste generation in the 8
-plant.
9 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
So really all you are providing l
10 for the solid and liquid and chemical waste is storage?
11 MR. VIJUK:
Storage, some dewatering --
i 12 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Dewatering --
]
13 MR. VIJUK:
-- of resins and compaction and dry
)
a 14 waste, right.
()
15 We have done an evaluation of the~ amount of solid 16 radwaste that would be generated on a cubic foot _per year 17 basis from the various types -- categories of solid waste 18 and there is a utility requirement -- or goal of 1700 cubic i-19 feet per year and we believe we are meeting that goal.
-20 The last thing in Chapter 11 has to do with 21
_ radiation monitoring and we have in addition to nonsafety 22 related radiation monitors we have a number of safety P
23 related radiation monitors that do, that are used in i
24 actuation of safety related functions.
25 We have a monitor that tells us when to initiate
<O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court. Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,-Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034
=.,. - _.
94 1
isolation of the containment air purge.
We have one to
()
2 initiate containment residual heat removal isolation.
This 3
.would be like in a post-accident scenario if your normal RHR 4'
system came on to provide makeup if the radiation levels get 5
too high in'the containment we stop that function and it 6
allows the safety systems, the passive safety systems, to do 7
the function so that we are not taking highly radioactive 8
fluid outside containment.
L 9
We use a radiation monitor in the air supply duct i
10 to-the main control room to implement or initiate 11 supplemental filtration on the normal HVAC systems and thene 12 systems are designed -- this is an active system, aDain a 13 defense-in-depth approach.
14 If it is able to filter the air sufficiently to I
l (
-15 keep the activity levels low enough in the control room, you 16 would stay on that system.
If the activity levels get high l
17 encu3h, we initiate the emergency control room ventilation 18 system and stop the normal HVAC system.
19 MR. CARROLL:
Now you have radiation initiating 20 it.
How about chlorine?
21 MR. VIJUK:
We deal with that on a site-specific 22 basis..
23 MR. CARROLL:
So some sites may need a chlorine 24 monitor-to do these two functions?
25 MR. VIJUK:
That's right.
O ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W.,-Suite 300 Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 842-0034 l
.,_._.-m
i i
95 1
MR. CARROLL:
- Okay, f
2 MR. VIJUK:
And finally, the radiation monitors 4
3 also provide for long-term post-accident monitoring.in the
?
4 4
containment radiation, for example, f
5 That's everything I had on Chapter 11.-
t j
6 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Any questions that we haven't I
7 covered in 4, 5 and 11 before we hear from the Staff?
8
[No response.)
9 MR. VIJUK:
Okay?
?
.10 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Thank you, Ron.
11-Do we have some questions?
They've answered all 12 the previous questions we have had in:this area?
13
'MR. McINTYRE:
There wert some questions that came f
14 up here today that we didn't have our -- we didn't'think 15 we'd bring a core designer.
Maybe we should have -- I guess i
16 in hindsight -- but we will scurry home, call our core 17 design guy and get the answers to some of those questions 18 that you had that we didn't have the answers to, and bring 1
t 19 those in in the morning.
l 20 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Thank you, Brian.- No other 21 comments?
We'll recess until-tomorrow morning at-8:30 --
22
--DR.
MILLER:.Are you going to ask us for questions 23 or --
24 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Yes.
I asked if_-you had any 25 questions.
+
l O
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES,_LTD.
1 Court Reporters 1250-I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
96 1
DR. MILLER:
Okay.
, ()
2 MR. CARROLL:
So can you say that ACRS has 3-completed its review of these three chapters pending receipt 4
of the' Staff's FSER?
i 5
CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Right.
I believe that's true --
6 and then some quettions that we have asked --
7-DR. SEALE:
There are some outstanding questions 8
they are going to get back to us on.
9 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
From Westinghouse we'll get back 10 tomorrow.
Other than that we have completed 4, 5 and 11 and 11 Chapter 1.
12 DR. KRESS:
I guess we relegate Dana's questions
~
i 13 on burnur to Chapter 15 probably, i
14 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Fifteen, yes.
i
(
15
.KRESS:
And the iodine spiking question 16 probably goes to Chapter 15 also,
~
17 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Yes.
-18 MR. CARROLL:
You are seven minutes ovar schedule j
19 there, Mr. Barton.
20 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
Well, we started late.
We made 21
_up time.
22 (Laughter.)
23 CHAIRMAN BARTON:
We'll recess until 8:30 tomorrow r
24.
morning.
25
[Whereupon, at 4:08 p.m., the hearing was i
i ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters
-1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 l
.(202)'842-0034
97 1
- recessed, to reconvene at 8:30 a.m.,
Wednesday, February 4, 2
1998.)
3 4
l 5
6 l
7 8
9 10-11
-12.
13 14
'15 16-17 18 l
19 20 21
-22 23 24 25 O
ANN RILEY;& ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters
--1250-I--Street, N.W.,-Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
NAME OF PROCEEDING:
ADVANCED REACTOR DESIGNS SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING DOCKET NUMBER:
PLACE OF PROCEEDING:
Rockville, MD were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
+
K Mark Mahoney Official Reporter Ann Riley & Associates, Ltd.
(v
... _...