ML20134N030
| ML20134N030 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Saint Lucie  |
| Issue date: | 01/18/1995 |
| From: | NRC OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS (OI) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20134M972 | List: |
| References | |
| FOIA-96-485 NUDOCS 9702210170 | |
| Download: ML20134N030 (63) | |
Text
-- _ . . . . . - -- - _ - . .
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA B
2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION ,
3 +++++
4 OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS 5 INTERVIEW 6 -----
x 7 IN THE MATTER OF: :
8 INTERVIEW OF : Docket No.
9 HERMAN FAGLEY : (not assigned) 10 :
11 ------------=- -===---=--
x 12 Wednesday, January 18, 1995 13 14 Training Building 15 St. Lucie Nuclear Plant 16 7585 South Highway A1A 17 Jensen Beach, Florida 34957 18 19 The above-entitled interview was conducted at 20 11:36 a.m.
21 BEFORE:
22 VANESSA SELEWSKI Investigator 24 o\3 25 g,,, 9 4 _ () . g EXHIBIT Ir.fcrattien in this rrcrd was deleted in a ;crdar.ce with me fregom of informatios PAGE_l 0F 63 PAGE(S)
Act, cumplicas .f.C._ 1 t?L-a ? r rn.n 9702210170 970219 Cl( /J** o //
BINDER 96-485 PDR
. . . . .. -. . . . . - - . . . - ~ . . . . . . _ - . . . - . . . ~ _ _ . .
2 1 APPEARANCES:
2 3 On Behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 4
5 VANESSA SELEWSKI, Investigator 6 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 7 Office of Investigations 8 101 Marietta Street i 9 Atlanta, Georgia 30323 10 11 12 13 14 15 j l
16 17 ,
18 i 19 20 21 1 22 23 24 25 !
i !
I 3 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S i
- 2 11
- 36 a.m. ;
3 MRS. SELEWSKI: For the record, it is 4 January 18th, 1995. This is a transcribed interview of
- 1 5 Herman Fagley. That's F-A-G-L-E-Y. And this interview is l
6 being conducted.at St. Lucie Nuclear Plant, or Power 7 Plant. And present at this interview is Mr. Fagley and
, 8 Investigator Vanessa Selewski, with NRC Office of 9 Investigations out of Atlanta.
1, 10 This interview involves an allegation made by i 11 Norm Mc11enbeck -- or Hallenbeck in which he alleges that i
12 Ernie Poarch and you, Mr. Fagley, have intimidated and
- 13. harassed him over a period of time. And I'll give you the 14 details.
1
. 15 MR. FAGLEY: Okay.
]
' 16 MRS. SELEWSKI: And as a result of his insisting ;
, i
. 17 on correct work and welding procedures and voiced concerns
! 18 about these, he has been demoted and given a decreased I
- 19 performance appraisal. And he considers that reprisal for 20 ' voicing concerns.
! 21 And I'm going to go ahead and ask you to raise
. 22 your right hand.
- 23 Whereupon,,
24 HERMAN FAGLEY, 25 being duly sworn by the Investigator, was examined and 4
e n
4 ;
- I testified as follows
i 2 DIRECT EXAMINATION l
! l
! 3 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. I'm going to go ahead and l
4 ask your full name,' address, and telephone number. !
, 5 MR. FAGLEY: Okay. Herman Fagley. Okay? I 6 live at
! 7 Zip i l
i 8 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. And home number.
! 9 MR. FAGLEY: Home number, area code 10 I 11 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. And what is your present i
I
- 12 position here?
l 13 MR. FAGLEY: Construction Services Site Manager.
I l 14 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. And how long have you had
)
I 15 that position?
s i
- 16 MR. FAGLEY
- Had that position, it will be three 17 years this June. Two and a half years.s i 1 18 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. And have you supervised '
l 19 Mr. Poarch for that period of time? Are you considered
. 1 j 20 Mr. Poarch's supervisor? I o . .
21 MR. FAGLEY: Yes, I am.
22 MRS. SELEWSKI: And what did you do prior to 23 coming to St. Lucie?
24 MR. FAGLEY: I was here at St. Lucie on 25 temporary assignment from the Juno Office, and assisting
]( f);; A '
5 1 the president at the time, the, well, previous site 2 manager, Dick Parks. And so, I had an office in Juno. I 3 was really between St. Lucie and Turkey Point, but the 4 majority of my time was spent in St. Lucie.
5 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. So you were at Turkey 6 Point for a while?
7 MR. FAGLEY: I'd been at Turkey Point, yes, 8 ma'am.
9 MRS. SELEWSKI: And what period of time was 10 that?
11 MR. FAGLEY: Say, from 19 -- I was down there 12 for duty in an outage. I was down there from January of l 13 '91 through like November of '91 for ten -- nine or ten
( 14 straight months.
15 And then I came up here. But I went back to j 16 Turkey Point from time to time. Not very long, but from i
17 time to time.
l 18 MRS. SELEWSKI: When did you first learn that 19 Mr. Hallenbeck had some concerns about Mr. Poarch and 20 problems that he was having with Mr. Poarch in one form or 21 another?
22 MR. FAGLEY: Okay. It was -- I'm trying to 23 think. It was about a -- It was in January, about a year 24 -- This was -- Pinning me down on dates, but I remember it 25 was after an outage and it was in January. I was going to l
l i
. .- _ ~ __ __ .__ __ -
j 6 1- say it's '93 - '92, make it.
i 2 MRS. SELEWSKI: January of '92?
3 MR. FAGLEY: Sometime in there. You know, I'm '
4 not exactly sure. Norm came to me.
5 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay.
6 MR. FAGLEY: Okay.
7 MRS. SELEWSKI: Came to you. And --
l- 8 MR. FAGLEY: Told --
1 ,
9 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- you think it was around 4 10 January.
i 11 MR. FAGLEY: I? was --
i j 12 MRS. SELEWSKI: Maybe it was '937 i
13 MR. FAGLEY: It could be '93. '92 or '93. I j 14 don't know. It was in January, I remember. Our dates run 15 so close together around here sometimes_I get lost in j 16 time.
17 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. And what do you recall, 18 that Mr. Hallenbeck 'came to you, and what was discussed?
19 MR. FAGLEY:- He said that Ernie degraded him, 20 that he couldn't work for the man. He didn't respect the 21 man. From day one since he came on site he questioned 22 Norm and -- on things. And that basically the -
23 organization at Turkey Point -- His position there 24 reported directly to the site manager, and here it did 25 not.
i 1
l 7
1 And I said, well -- And he wanted it to be that 2 way. And I said, no, we're going to keep it the way it 3 is.
4 After some thought and everything, and I talked l l
5 with Ernie about it. And maybe I'm a little unusual I 6 because I am Mr. Poarch's supervisor, but at one time j 7 Mr. Poarch was my supervisor.
8 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
1 9 MR. FAGLEY: So I had worked for him before. l l
10 MRS. SELEWSKI: Was that at Turkey Point that l 11 you worked for him?
12 MR. FAGLEY: No, not at Turkey Point. I worked j 13 for him here at St. Lucie. I worked for him here at -- in 14 Jacksonville, and also at Seabrook.
I 15 MRS. SELEWSKI: So the tables were turned a '
16 little bit --
17 MR. FAGLEY: Yes.
18 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- regarding who was supervising 19 who?
20 MR. FAGLEY: Right.
21 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. When did you talk to 22 Ernie about what --
23 MD. FAGLEY: Well, the day Norm came to me I 24 went and talked to Ernie. Didn't let water settle. I 25 talked to him that day and he said it wasn't valid. And
8 1 we talked about it. And he went home and thought about l
~
2 it, and I went home and thought about it.'
3 And he said, you know, basically Norm was maybe 1 4 -- he wanted it to be like Turkey Point and we're not 5 necessarily like Turkey Point. He had a different 6 relationship with my -- the person I replaced than with 7 myself. He still reported through another person to the 8 site manager at that time. I'm going to say that person 9 was not as strong as Ernie, you know, was not a -- really 10 wasn't much of a go-between, more of a buffer.
11 And I just didn't -- I felt the responsibility 12 stays right there in Ernie's field of work.
13 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. So do you remember 14 anything else that you told Norm when he came to you about 15 problems Norm felt he was having?
16 MR. FAGLEY: Well, I told him I didn't think 17 they're all valid. You know, I,-- He said, well, he said 18 this to me. Well, I've heard some of the comments. Okay?
19 He says like, what are your people doing today, which I 20 don't think is harassment.
21 I ask him, I said, what's Fred doing. I'll ask 22 Ernie, what's Fred doing today. I want to know. I mean, 23 sometimes I may say it jokingly. Sometimes I really want 24 to know. But sometimes I know what he's doing, but I want 25 to confirm what he's doing.-
l l
9 1 You know, Ernie's responsible for budget. You 2 know, Norm had a budget. Norman's budget was Ernie's 3 budget, so Ernie was responsible for all the interactions 4 in that group. And why shouldn't Ernie know what's going l i
5 on in that group. ;
l 6 One time Norm wrote a letter to me, copied Ernie.
7 And I looked at it and I said -- This is after we started i
8 having a problem. And I said, Ernie, I said, you need to 9 give this back to Norm and tell him he needs to address 10 this to you because you'ra his supervisor and I -- and he
]
I 11 can copy me. ;
12 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
13 MR. FAGLEY: And that was considered -- Norm 14 considered that harassment. And it was at my request. I j 15 did not go to Norm. Tried to go through channels, chain 16 of command.
i 17 I did go to Norm quite a few times when I had 18 questions. I go to any of my people when I have a 19 question. I don't alwaysogo through Ernie. I don't 20 always go through Ron Fields or there are other 21 supervisors. I go to'-- If I need to know something, I go 22 right to them.
23 If I want their people to do something special, I 24 always try to look up the supervisor and say, this is what 25 needs to be done. But not all the time.
J
10 1 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
2 MR. FAGLEY: You can't do it all the time.
3 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. And what did you tell 4 Mr. Hallenbeck that you would do in response to his --
5 MR. FAGLEY: Well, I told him that I think that )
6 we needed to work it out. We met several times with H.R.,
7 Andy DeSoiza. We met among ourselves and he talked to me.
8 It was -- I said, you don't have to like him. I 9 told him, I said, there's people out here I work with 10 every day I don't like. I do not have to socialize with 11 them, but I can work with and do my job.
12 And I said, I don't -- You know, he wouldn't --
13 And I said, give me some specific information. And he 14 would not give me any exact specific information. He 15 says, well,.one time Ernie questioned, well, why do we got 16 to do this, can't we do comething else.
17 Well;. I told Norm it was -- I felt it was our 18 responsibility, because we work to the code and work to 19 regulations. Sometimes those codes and regulations are 20 vague or can be interpreted in different manners.
21 So I said that sometimes if you put a question 22 mark in somebody's brain then they go home and think about 23 it, hey, there's a code over here that could overrule this 24 and we can do it this way. There's more than one way to 25 skin a cat.
\
11 1 So a lot of times what he said was a question, 2 but that was to make him think, to make sure this was the 3 right thing to do, or was this the only thing to do. You 4 know, was there a loophole. And -- Or was there a way we 5 can do it a different way to make cost easier or schedule 6 easier.
7 But not one time did we ever say anything, do 8 this, it is always the code. We may question why you're 9 doing it and want an explanation why, because we know that 10 this piece -- this sentence says this, but this one over 11 here overrides that in certain cases. And we want to push 12 people to make sure that they -- they're doing the wisest 13 thing.
14 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. Do you remember anything 15 else about that meeting with Mr. Hallenbeck when he came 16 to you about that?
17 You just said you talked -- Did you tell him you 18 talked to Ernie?
19 MR. FAGLEY: I talked to Ernie. And I said --
20 give me specific instances what I've said and what I've 21 done. And, you know, said, yeah, I told him, I said, 22 well, what was your people doing today.
23 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
24 MR. FAGLEY: Or, case, you know, he said one 25 case where Ernie told me, he said, one of his -- Dale, who
t t
i 12 4
- l' I think you're going to talk to later, he was going to go i
2 ask Norm a question, but Dale was walking by, so he askad i
- 3 Dale, instead of going there.
4 He got the answer he wanted, but he didn't go 5 down and tell -- ask Norman. Norman was upset because he i
- 6 asked one of his subordinates instead of asking him.
2 f' 7 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh. j
! 8 MR. FAGLEY: I mean, the world's not going to i
l 9 end on something like that.
10 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. And you said that you I 11 talked to Ernie and -- about it and you needed more
! 12 specifics about what Ernie said to you about --
13 MR. FAGLEY: Well, Ernie.says, you know, he'd l 14 try to -- You know, we was trying to handle him with kid l
l 15 gloves after this. You know, and I said, you'know, you 16 know, try to get along with him. You know, we know what f
17 his job is and stuff like that.
18 But, you know, we did handle him with kid gloves.
19 It was a lot different than other people. We -- That's i
. 20 about it.
21 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. And then what progressed i
- 22 after that? You said you mentioned - you've mentioned 23 going to Human Resources and -- or being called into Human i 24 Resources about some concerns Hallenbeck had voiced to l - 25 them.
w .19. , ~y y - - , - - . ,w
13
< 1 MR. FAGLEY: Uh-huh.
1 2- MRS.'SELEWSKI: If you can kind of give me a 1 l
3 chronology of your involvement in that and any other '
4 discussions Hallenbeck --
] 5 MR. FAGLEY: Okay. !
i 4
6 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- had with you. 'l j 7 MR. FAGLEY: Okay. Norm, he went down and he, i
8 you know, he's talking about this. He said, well, he 9 says, well, I just can't take it anymore. I'm going to go ;
l 10 to H.R., I'm going to go to SPEAKOUT, I'm going:to go to 11- the NRC.
12 And I said, no --
13 MRS. SELEWSKI: When did he tell you that?
14 MR. FAGLEY: Oh, gosh. This is almost -- early 15 in the game, early in this whole situation.
16 And I said, Norm, I says, I'm not going to tell i
17 you what you can - -what you have to do -- or what to do.
18 I'm going to tell you, you do what you feel like you have 19 to do. If you have to go to H.R., fine. If you have to 20 go to the NRC, fine. If you have to go to SPEAKOUT, fine.
21 You do what you1 feel like you have to do. I'm not telling 22 you anything, but I think you're blowing this whole thing I 23 out of proportion. 'That's my feelings altogether. And I 24 told him this several times.
25 He was out for a period of time. And it was a ;
I I
i 14
! 1 little sticky situation because his wife worked here, l 2 also. And Joanna was a -- an1. she worked for Catalytic,
) 3 came to Florida Power & Light. She was a very good 4 worker,verypleasant.[
5 '
8 j 9 But he was out for a period of time and he was J
l 10 sick. And Joanna said he was sick. And then she also 11 said that he was -- I thought he was seeing somebody. I 12 want to say -- I mean, seeing somebody for a -- for
}
I 13 medical reasons or something, because he said, I need some I
j 14 time off. I said, fine, take off. I never denied him )
l 15 anything. If he said, hey, I need the afternoon off, i
16 fine, take it off.
{
e 1
) 17 You know, he was a very good worker. He always l
] 18 came in early, stayed late, and stuff like that. So I i
- 19 didn't mind if he needed a couple hours off to go i
j 20 somewhere. I never asked him where, except one time he j 21 asked'for -- to get off early to go get his driver's
?
22 license renewed. And I said -- so he wouldn't have to 23 wait in line, I said, go ahead, it's a slow day.
24 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
25 MR. FAGLEY: But Norm was -- He just wouldn't p l4c (<-
} 15 l 1 let the-dog die. I mean, I'never could get any specific l 2 information out of him of cases,'except he's being
- . 3 harassed. '
i
[ 4 Well, how are you being harassed. Well, I've l
5 never been talked to like that. I don't know how he -- .
i
- 6 When I was around between the two of them, I never heard ,
7 anything that I would consider degrading, derogatory, ,
8 anything of that sort, when I was around.
9 Now, I don't know what happened when I wasn't' 10 there.
11 MRS.-SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
12 MR. FAGLEY: But like I say, well, Norm would
.13 probably -- he's mentioned it several times, he says, 14 well, I know you and Ernie are good friends. Yes, Ernie 15 and I are friends. We've known each other since-1982 when 16 I first came to work here at St. Lucie. But we're more 17 friends on the job. We don't see very -- We see very 18 little outside the job.
19 But I consider myself a friend with Norm, too.
20 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
21 MR. FAGLEY: But --
22 MRS. SELEWSKI: .You mentioned the meeting that
~
23 you talked to Andy DeSoiza.
24 Was that after Hallenbeck had went to them and 25 voiced some concerns?
. ._ . . . . - . . ~ . . . . . - . - _ _ _ . . - - _ . _ - . - . .
16 1 MR. FAGLEY: I think it was. I was not quite 2 sure of that. But it was -- We came over here, I think, 3 on two or three instances and talked with Andy. Right 4 here at this table, at this desk. And I think with Andy, )
5 and maybe one time Ed O'Neil was present, also. '
l 6 So he was -- We talked about it. And, yeu know, l I
7 Norm said he was going to try harder. Ernie said he was !
8 going to try harder. And I was going to look at it.
9 And like I say, I have morning meetings and I go 10 to meetings all day long. It could be a week I wouldn't 11 -- I could see Norm in the hall and say, hi, and that's 12 all the communications I would have with him.
13 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
14 MR. FAGLEY: And then there would be other
~
15 times, like during an outage, I can see him half the day.
16 Depends on the situation or the time.
17 Going back when he was out sick, you know, his 18 wife said -- I said, you know, where's Norm. He's out 19 sick. Gb 20 =_
21 I said, okay. And I told Andy this. And 22 basically he used up all his -- When he started to use up 23 all his sick time, I said, Andy, what do I do on his time 24 sheet. And Andy told me what to do on his time sheet.
25 So --
f-g( pn 1w:.
b 17 1 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh. What did you 2 specifically discuss during that meeting with Andy when -- j 3- MR. FAGLEY: Well, basically we talked about 4 ' basically there's -- Norm said that he just didn't like l 5 Ernie, period. Okay. Said since the first day on the_ job J
6 Ernie questioned him or made a comment, what the hell are 7 you doing this'for, or something of that sort, you know.
1 8 And Norm took it the wrong way, or somebody 9 questioned Norm on everything. But just -- Norm has an l
i 10 ego. -And I'll say -- I've said this in front of Norm.- I 11 said it here in the meeting. I said, there's.two sets of 12 prima donnas on this job, certified welders and licensed 13 operators.
14 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
15 MR. FAGLEY: Okay? And I said, you know, Norm,
~
116 you're a welder and you're a prima donna.
17 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
18 MR. FAGLEY: Okay? I said, what's worse, Carl 1
19 Crotter is a bigger prima donna than you because he's been 20 a certified welder and a licensed operator. I've even j 21 told the plant manager he's a prima donna because he's a i 22 licensed operator.
i j :23 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
i i 24 MR. FAGLEY: But he's a prima donna.
1 25 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
I l I
4
18 1 MR. FAGLEY: Those people, the welders, they 2 have e. lot of -- Or he was a welder. He is in the welding
, 3 program. He has a lot of sense of pride in his work, and 4 stuff like that. And they can do no wrong, or whatever.
5 But I -- That's part of the nature of the
- 6 business and that makes them what -- how good they are and 7 everything else. But the'l are prima donnas.
8 MRS. SELEWSKI: And that's one of the concerns i 9 Mr. Hallenbeck voiced, was that he considered that name as i 10 intimidating or harassing.
11 MR. FAGLEY: I said that to other people. I 12 said -- I told you I told the plant manager that.
l 13 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
4 14 MR. FAGLEY: I've told other people that. I've 15 --
You get a number of people I've said this to, that 16 basically there are two kinds of prima donnas on this' job, 17 licensed operators and certified welders.
18 MRS. SELEWSKI: And that meeting -- Back to the 19 meeting with DeSoiza, how did that end?
20 MR. FAGLEY: Well, basically we -- Ernie and 21 Norman will work together, you know, to get their 22 relationships. And that was basically how it ended.
23 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. I'm going to go into 24 specific --
25 MR. FAGLEY: Okay.
19 1 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- instances in which Norm is 2 claiming that he had some problems --
3 MR. FAGLEY: Okay.
4 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- with Ernie. And just see if 5 you were aware of those problems.
6 MR. FAGLEY: Okay.
7 MRS. SELEWSKI: And then we'll go back to the 8 Human Resources actions that were taken regarding his 9 performance appraisal and his being reassigned to the .,
10 computer project --
11 MR. FAGLEY: Uh-huh.
I 12 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- that he was reassigned to in 13 May of '94.
14 MR. FAGLEY: Okay.
15 MRS. SELEWSKI: Mr. Hallenbeck mentioned that in 16 the Fall of '93 during an outage he held up a work -- the 1
17 work schedule because of an unacceptable weld on the 18 Bergen-Patterson Support for the component cooling water .
I 19 system, and that because of that, because of holding that 20 up to see what the problem was, Mr. Poarch became upset 21 with him because he held up the job to look at the weld.
22 And do you remember that incident?
23 MR. FAGLEY: Yes, I remember the incident. And 24 it was -- It was -- Yeah, we were all upset because you go 25 out there and when you tear something apart and then you
20 1 -- and you find out after you tore it apart that it was 2 installed wrong, okay, there's nothing that you can do.
3 It's an existing condition. Okay?
4 I know I heard Ernie say, well, shoot, it's been 5 like that for all these years, and everything like that.
6 You know, say, why can't we put it back together. Well, 7 it's against code.
8 WeJ1, hey, we'd like to put it back together like 9 it is and everything. But if it's against code, we know 10 we can't do it.
11- And in jest or kiddingly, like I said, you know, 12 it's been like that for years, why can't we put it back 13 together the same way, that was said, probably. And I'm 14 going to say I even thought that. But that's not right.
15 And first off, you know, Norm says, you know, we 16 have excessive gap, you know, the weld -- we don't have 17 the welding procedure to do it., We can't do it this way.
18 It's wrong, you know, by all standards.
19 So, well, I don't like it, but we got to fix it.
20 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
21 MR. FAGLEY: That's it.
22 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. So --
23 MR. FAGLEY: And it held work up, but it did not 24 -- I mean, it slowed things down. We had to order some 25 stuff. But things like that happen.
21 1 MRS. SELEWSKI: And were you upset with 2 Hallenbeck because the work was being held up, or just 3 with the weld being wrong to begin with? I 4 MR. FAGLEY: Well, we're upset because -- Well, l 5 Norm pointed,it out it was wrong. I didn't care. Okay.
6 It was that we found the existing condition that was wrong 7 and now I got to eat it or live with it, fixing it, which 8 we had not planned to do.
9 We figured, hey, put it back exactly the way we 10 found it. But we couldn't do that. It was not -- Yeah, 11 we were all upset. But like I said, we wasn't at him. He 12 identified the thing. Hey, that's life. It happens. l 13 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. Hallenbeck says that, you 14 know, this made Poarch look bad because it was held up 15 and --
16 MR. FAGLEY: It made us all look bad. You know, 17 nobody looks bad over in Construction Services. We work 18 as an organization. If Fred Gigele screws up over there, 19 we all screw up. I screw 'up. Okay?
20 I mean, it was an organization thing. Okay? It 21 was nothing -- You know, it was out of Norm's control.
22 It's existing conditions. We did not have the right 23 procedure to weld it like it was, so we had to buy the 24 right materials to make it work to our procedures.
25 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. Were you aware of any
22 1 harassment or intimidation on Poarch's part against 2 Hallenbeck after this incident because Mr. Hallenbeck 3 spoke up and said, this is what we've got to do?
4 MR. FAGLEY: Not to my knowledge, no.
5 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. He said that after that 6 Mr. Poarch would not speak to him and excluded him from 7 meetings.
8 Do you recall any incidences --
9 MR. FAGLEY: Well, I spoke to Ernie several 10 times. I said, there's nobody from welding in this 11 meeting, why. Well, Norm knows there's a meeting, so he 12 was -- he's invited to the meetings. He's chose not to 13 come to a lot of meetings. Okay?
14 And I will say -- And I was bad about it, 15 reminding Ernie. And sometimes -- I'd like to add 16 sometimes we'd have a few meetings and, well, he'c around 17 the corner. Okay?
18 Sometimes we would fail to -- well, we'd forget 19 about welding. I'm going to be honest. I did, too.
20 Sometimes we -- that was not intentional. There's two --
21 There's daily meetings that Norm failed to attend, failed 22 to send people to.
23 One time he was supposed to meet Ernie and I in 24 the South 40 down there. Okay. Here he is supposed to 25 meet his supervisor and his supervisor's boss about a
23 1 thing out there. And he was -- Some question came up that 2 he could have delegated down and he chose to ignore Ernie 3 and I after we requested his presence down in there. And 4 he couldn't say, hey, I got to meet So-and-So down here, -
5 can I get back to you, or can So-and-So handle it. He 6 just didn't show up.-
7 We had to call him on the radio. And he said, 8 well, I'm tied up with an important matter. And when we 9 got back, I found out it -- I didn't-feel it was that 10 important. Maybe Norm did, but I didn't feel it was that 11 important. So he just chose to ignore us.
12 MRS. SELEWSKI: What did you -- Did you say 13 something to him about that?
14 MR. FAGLEY: Oh, yes. Well, I said -- And he !
l 15 kind of huffed and pouted off that he thought, well, this j i
16 was a welding matter and, well, we're basically more of a 17 logistic -- I'm talking about, you know, space material.
18 You know, and this was a true welding matter, i
19 which, like I say, it was not an outage. It was not a ;
i 20 life or death thing for the plant, something'like this. I !
l 21 mean, he could have put the guy off. He could have said, j 22 hey, Dale, take care of this, let me know what you do when j 23 I come back. )
24
~
He just -- He didn't call us on the radio and 25 say, hey,.I'm tied up with something, I'11 be back. We l
l 24 l 1 had to call him after waiting for him about 20 minutes.
l l 2 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh. There was another I
L 3 incident he mentions, Spring of '94, Unit 1 outage. He l
4 stopped welding work on an intermit line, DEH System on 5 the turbine deck.
6 MR. FAGLEY: Right. l j
7 MRS. SELEWSKI: He said that the welding 8 procedure needed to be amended before continuing work. So a
then Hallenbeck directed the welding be stopped to allow 10 the procedure to be amended.
11 And Mr. Poarch became upset with him again 12 because work was stopped.
13 MR. FAGLEY: Well, I vaguely remember some of 14 this one here. Yeah. I'd be upset, too, because, you 15 know, Norm knew the job was coming up. He knew the 16 procedure wasn't right. He should have raised his hand up 17 before the outage.
18 And it did not impact the job. Of course, when 19 somebody, oh, that needs to be amended, well, why does it t
20 need t.o be amended, why didn't you think of this or see 21 this earlier.
22 It was not -- I don't remember that much about it 23 because it wasn't -- Things got done in a timely manner.
24 But maybe Ernie -- I would have been upset, too. It had 25 to be amended. Well, why did it have to be amended.
25
, 1 We've had this procedure.for years, and now you're telling j l \
( 2 me we can't weld it. I mean, this plant's not brand new. '
i
- 3 MRS. SELEWSKI
- Uh-huh. So are you aware of --
l 4 Was Mr. Poarch upset with Hallenbeck, or was he just upset j
5 that work had to be stopped or --
I i 6 MR. FAGLEY: Well, we're always upset when work l 7 has to be stopped because it's inefficiency, costs you 8 money, and things of that sort.
9 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh. I 10 MR. FAGLEY: He had tu pul] pcopie off and i
11 reschedule people. You know, and Ernie's job was product 12 -- scheduling cost. So, yeah, he'd be upset.
l 13 Like I say, it didn't impact us schedule-wise, i
14 but I don't know what it did cost-wise. But it just --
15 You always had to stick -- You never like to stop 16 something in the middle.
17 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. I c2're not aware of 18 anything that Mr. Poarch dio or said to Mr. Hallenbeck i
19 which --
20 MR. FAGLEY: Maybe he made some comment.
21 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- may have been harassing or 22 intimidating?
I 23 MR. FAGLEY: Not to my knowledge. He may have 24 said, well, why, or why are you doing this, and stuff, 25 well, why didn't you think about this earlier. 1
, 26 a
1 I think any questions that'any supervisor would
- 2 ask somebody why work is being stopped and why you have to i 1 3 amend the procedure at this point in the work -- {
1 4 MRS. SELEWSKI: He said another form of 4
5 harassment was Poarch giving his employees direct --
1 :
6 giving Hallenbeck's employees directions and kind of going 3
7 over, or undermining Hallenbeck's position.
8 And you did mention before, you know, one time j l
9 Dale was walking by and he asked Dale a question.
10 Are you aware of any other --
11 MR. FAGLEY: No. I mean --
12 KRS. SELEWSKI: -- instances where that was a 13 problem or considered harassing?
i 14 MR. FAGLEY: I don't think so. I don't think l
15 Ernie's done anything more than I have done. You know, 16 what Ernie's done, asking Dale, if you'd go back there to 17 the welding department and Norm is not there and Dale and 18 . Jerry are there, I'll ask them the question.
19 In other words, if Ernie wasn't there, I'd go 20 down and I'd find somebody and ask questions. And -- Or 21 if Ernie wasn't there, I'd ask somebody else to do the 22 work. And if somebody -- If Norm wasn't there, ask 23 somebody to do the work.
24 I mean, it's no different than what I do every 25 day. And if that's the case, then I guess everybody -- I
27 1 guess Ron and Ernie can charge me for harassment.
2 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. He also claims part of 3 Ernie's harassment involved turning his employ -- turning 4 Hallenbeck's employees a hundred percent against him ,
l 5 and --
l 6 MR. FAGLEY: I don't feel that's the case. Of 7 the two employees Norm had, Dale and Jerry, I've only l l
8- known Dale since I came here to St. Lucie. I knew -- I've 9 known Jerry Kunkel since 1977 or '76.
10 And I don't -- He didn't turn them against him.
11 I mean, we always tried -- In fact, I went out of my way.
12 Both Jerry and Dale used to be Catalytic employees and 13 then we hired them at FPL. And the first year in 14 employment you don't get no vacation time.
I 15 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh. )
16 MR. FAGLEY: And I said, let me know, they're 17 going to get two weeks, I'll take care of the time cards.
18 Okay. Norm came to me about that. I s' aid, let me know 19 when they're going to do it, I'll take care of the time 20 cards.
21 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
22 MR. FAGLEY: And I -- And they got two weeks 23 vacation. So it was, you know, something that Norm came 24 to me about his employees and I took care of it for him.
25 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. There was an incident in
28 l i
1 April of '94 when Hallenbeck claimed that Jacobs !
2 confronted him about lying and they had an argument about ;
I 3 Hallenbeck deleting welding files from the computer,-and- !
4 it' appears they had a pretty good confrontation there.
l 5 And Hallenbeck felt that this -- Jacobs turned on 6 him and all that was part of Poarch's harassing and i l
7 turning his employees against him. )
8 Are you aware of that incident?
l 9 MR. FAGLEY: Yes. Dale told me about it. And I 10 heard that.the files were missing out of the computer, no 11 longer there. Norm was working nights at that time. And 12 then when he came in the morning -- They were there that i'
13 day when Dale was working days, and then the - 'either 14 second and third shift, Norm was working the third shift.
15 Then when Dale came back in in the daytime, they were --
i 16 the files were'gone. I 17 Okay. Who had access to the computer, Norm. You 18 know, I did not know what files they were, how important 19 they were, whatever. He was -- Norm was not a happy 20 camper there because he was working third shift. He 21 thought he should be in charge of that project instead of working for somebody else, which I agree.
~
22 Norm was a lot !
23 more capable and competent than the person that supposedly 1
24 was in charge of their project, and did not go on. I 25- agree.
29
~1 But, hey, he's a victim of circumstances. That's 2 the way the plant wanted it. I had no control over'it.
l 3 This' happened. You just got to bite the bullet, eat a 4 little humble pie, and do your job.
5 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh. So you were aware of 6 that incident, that they --
7 MR. FAGLEY: Well, Dale came and talked to me.
8 Also, I think, when that thing happened, I notified Andy 9 DeSoiza, Human Resources, that -- what happened, also.
10 MRS. SELEWSKI: Chay. And was -- Who placed 11 Norm on third shift?
12 MR. FAGLEY: It was the plant. Let me see. It 13 was Chuck Geier was named in charge of'the welding.for the 14 project. And I can't remember who, but it was the. request 15 of the plant that Norm go on third shift. j i
16 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. Was there any point in i
17 time in which you told Mr. Jacobs some of the problems i 18 that -- with Hallenbeck regarding his performance
- 19 appraisal or anything about what his performance appraisal i 20 had on it?
- 21 MR. FAGLEY
- I never told Dale. I never
- _ 22 discussed anybody's performance appraisals with any other 23 person, except themselves. Maybe -- Okay. Ernie, his 24 supervisor, I had to sign all the -- Ernie does Norm's and s
~
25 other people's appraisals. I review them and I sign them.
e
L 30 l 1 Okay. Those -- The only -- The supervisor is the ,
2 only one I discuss the performance appraisals with.
i 3 Whatever Joe Blow did, they don't need to know. It's none
, 4 of their business.
5 MRS. SELEWSKI: Then there is the subject of the ;
6 performance appraisals. And I don't know -- Do you 7 approve or review the performance appraisals that Mr.
8 Poarch has done --
9 MR. FAGLEY: Yes, I do.
10 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- certain -- Okay. This is j 11 where he's claiming his performance appraisals decreased 12 over time and he felt that was reprisal for voicing 13 concerns.
14 MR. FAGLEY: Okay. Now --
1 l
l 15 MRS. SELEWSKI: If you can kind of give me some j 16 information about your involvement with the performance 17 appraisals and I'll give you --
18 MR. FAGLEY: Basically, one year -- the first 19 year we did -- I was here and did performance appraisals.
! 20 It was at the first year we said two ch was average. The f 21 second year we said two five was average, or something of 22 that sort.
I 23 The -- So, as I recall -- Let's see, which one's 24 which. This is the first one, '92. Yes. You know, this 25 is another pay period too, isn't it?
31 1 MRS. SELEWSKI: Yes. I wasn't sure. That may 2 not be complete, that one that's the '92 one.
3 MR. FAGLEY: No, it isn't, '92, and everything. ,
l 4 So basically, the two accomplishments here, you know, this 5 one here, two, he had a three and two seven. That's above 6 average on each one. This one here in '93/'94, he had --
7 it looks like -- I can't read it all, but he's above 8 average in both of them.
9 And this one here, this is the one -- Okay. This
~
10 one here talks about him not attending meetings, which I 11 already talked about. And we talked about the spending an 12 amount of time per week on training, welding. And this 13 was when he was trying to get into -- he needed some 14 supervisory help.
15 This was an interim one where we felt we had to ,
i 11 6 say, Norm, we feel we've got a problem with you. We'd )
17 like to take some corrective action. And this was the i 18 method that we were told to document it.
19 MRS. SELEWSKI: And that was -- You were told by 20 Andy DeSoiza?
21 MR. FAGLEY: By H.R., yes.
22 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. So had there been 23 problems --
24 MR. FAGLEY: There had been problems before --
25 MRS. SELEWSKI: -
prior to this?
32 t
, 1 MR. FAGLEY: There had been problems prior to 2 that. We tried to work them out. You know, I'm going to 3 say the construction group, bunch of good old boys, we try 4 to work them out. We don't like paperwork. We don't like .
5 doing these things once a year, anyhow. It's a necessity.
6 But we try to work it out verbally witho6t l 7 letters, without things of this type, without a lot of 8 documentation. It came to a point where we felt in this 9 point in time, you know, just before this there was just a 10 problem with Norm and his superiors. I'm going to say 11 Ernie and I.
12 When the -- This came shortly after his 13 confrontation with Dale when we started realizing there 14 was a problem with his subordinates. His subordinates had 4
15 a problem with him. Then we decided to take some action.
16 You know, Dale came to -- said to me in passing 17 one day, he says, you know, old Jerry's really tore up 18 about this thing.
19 (l5 the way Norm is just treating him and beating -- he's
. 20 dog. cussing him and everything else. 3-21 And I said -- I said, no, I didn't know anything 22 about it. Jerry never came and said anything to me about 23 it. So I said -- He says -- And then he said -- He told 24 me this at the same time, you know, him and Norm had a 25 face-to-face confrontation over in the weld test shop.
i l
33 1 So -- And that's when we decided to go ahead with 2 this review, when he started having problems with his 1 3 subordinates. Before, it was just Ernie and I and 4
4 occasionally a peer.
5 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. Were those problems 6 documented over that time period or just --
7 MR. FAGLEY: No. Well, basically the only thing
, l 8 documented was like Ernie and I, and that was to H.R.
9 Like I said, we didn't keep much paper. We're not -- We 10 wasn't looking for -- out to hang anybody or do anything.
p 11 We thought we could work this situation oat. We tried to i
12 work the situation out. And there's no paper on it.
13 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay.
14 MR. FAGLEY: I mean --
15 MRS. SELEWSKI: Do you see any reprisal or
- 16 actions that are considered intimidating or harassing in
) 17 these performance evaluations ,-
i 18 MR. FAGLEY: No, I don't.
19 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- that were given to 20 Mr. Hallenbeck --
4 21 MR. FAGLEY: I do not.
22 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- for voicing concerns or --
1 23 MR. FAGLEY: No.
24 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. And going to the 25 ' reassignment of Hallenbeck from welding supervisor to --
34 ;
i 1 MR. FAGLEY: That --
2 MRS. SELEWSKI: I don't know what his title 3 would have been in that position.
4 MR. FAGLEY: Okay.
5 MRS. SELEWSKI: Could you just tell me a little l 6 bit about that?
7 MR. FAGLEY: Okay. This was -- This happened
- 8 after the Dale and Norm confrontation. Okay?
1 9 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh. j
] l J 10 MR. FAGLEY: We felt like we had to do i 11 something. They was doing this new computer welding i 12 program that Norm was very, I mean, involved in. And 13 Ernie would ask questions about them and Norm would tell
. 14 him this and that, and they needed all this time, and do )
l 15 all this stuff.
16 And, you know, I know it involved work and a lot i
17 of precise work to make sure it's done right and you don't 1
18 have to redo anything, and that sort. l 1
19 But when he was having trouble with that, we 20 said, okay, we're going to make a reassignment. That 21 letter was put out. Norm did not come to work. He never 22 saw that letter. Okay. He never saw it here on site, 23 unless it was in this office over here, because that 24 letter came out after he called in sick. Okay? He never 25 saw -- You know, Joanna probably took it home to him.
35 1 And the day he left sick I didn't realize it.
2 The first day he left sick he took every personal object 3 off his wall in his office like he wasn't coming back.
4 And I didn't -- And I went on back to see Dale 5 one day in Norm's office, and Dale was using it because'it 6 has all the reference books. And I finally noticed his i
7 personal effects were gone off the wall.
8 And then I -- And I told Andy and asked Dale.
9 And he says, oh, yeah, they were gone the day he.left, the 10 last day he was here.
11 MRS. SELEWSKI: So your --
1 12 MR. FAGLEY: It was -- When he left out on sick, 13 as far as'I'm concerned, when he took all his personal 14 belongings with him, he had no plans on coming back.
1 15 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay.
16 MR. FAGLEY: And that letter like -- That letter 17 was issued. He never saw that letter here on site. He 18 may have seen it at home. But it was never personally 19 given to him.
20 MRS. SELEWSKI: So he'd already been on sick 21 leave when this came out?
22 MR. FAGLEY: Yes.
.3 23 MPS. SELEWSKI: Did you -- So you didn't discuss 24 this reassignment with Hallenbeck --
25 MR. FAGLEY: No, I did not.
36 1 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- at any time?
2 MR. FAGLEY: No. Did not.
3 MRS. SELEWSKI: Was that because he was out sick 4 on sick leave when this was decided? I 5' MR. FAGLEY: I can't remember all that clearly 6 on the exact dates and things like that. But it was l
7 decided shortly about that time, yes.
8 MRS. SELEWSKI: Any particular reason why it 9 wasn't discussed with him, other than he was out on sick 10 leave?
11 MR. FAGLEY: No. I can't really give you a good 12 reason. He was -- He wasn't here and we decided this is 13 the way it was. So the computer program.-- He said all 14 his time was that. So we said, well, okay. He was like 15 mothering the project along. And so.we'll keep him'right 16 there. And the day-to-day operations we'll give to Dale.
17 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. And back to the 18 performance -- the-last performance appraisal that was 19 done, there was a comment section that was written --
20 MR. FAGLEY: Noted.
21 MRS. SSLEWSKI: -- by Mr. Poarch.
22 MR. FAGLEY: He was -- Okay. He had been to 23 several supervisory schools. Nothing -- He felt that 24- "there was -- he didn't need to go. He does not need -- He 25 felt like he didn't need to go to any. He'd been to
1 4
j 37 l
1 adequate supervision ar.1ool and that was back on another 2 corporation, - and he dit 'n't need any more' supervisory 3 schools.
4 MRS. SELEWSKI: And that was an alternative you 5 all --
6 MR. FAGLEY: That's what -- I 7- MRS. SELEWSKI: -- suggested to work things out 8 with his --
9 MR. FAGLEY: Subordinates.
10 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- cubordinatas? )
1 11- MR. FAGLEY: Not with his superiors. With his 12 subordinates.
13 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. And then he made a ]
i 14 statement about stepping down or --
15 MR. FAGLEY: Basically, we didn't say anything 16 meaning stepping down. He was still in charge of the 17 welding program. His -- Let me say, Norm has, like I'say, 18 I' call it -- Norm mentioned that, you know, I -- the word 19 prima donna.
20 Okay. Norm has an ego, which is good. But Norm 21 is one of these people that -- and I've said it before and H22 I'll say it now -- is that if you had a hundred watt light 23 bulb on you, Norm has to have.101 light bulb on him. He 24 always has to shine more.
25 And he's that' type of person. He needs to be
. __ _ __ . _ . . . _. .._._.--.__--_.-.-..m - m - -- _
i >
i 38 if 1 stroked. I'm not a supervisor to stroke or pet a thing. >
t
)_ 2 My dog comes up and wants -- rubs against my leg and wants 3 to be, you know, pet.
I'm not -- I pet my dog, but I'm not going to do that to people every day that goes by and
~
! 4 i
i 5 pamper them.
- 6 He has a job to do. He's the expert in welding
! 7 and I expect him to be the expert in welding. ;
i 8 MRS. SELEWSKI: So you didnt force him to 4
2 9 resign or -- '
10 MR. FAGLEY: No, I did not.
I MRS. SELEWSKI:
13 Because, you know, here the 12 comment is he --
1 13 MR. FAGLEY: I can't --
i j 14 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- he does not feel that he can 1
15 ' supervise the welding department any longer.
1.
16 MR. FAGLEY: Yeah. -He said that.
i i 17 MRS. SELEWSKI: Did he tell you that?
l 18 MR. FAGLEY: He said that. His own words. So 1
I 19 with that comment -- Yeah. With that comment and what had 20 happened, that's the reason that letter was -- Okay, Norm, 21 we'll take you out of the supervisor's pool, let you tune 22 down. You need to go to school, still keep you in tune 23 with the welding. You do not get a drop in pay. His 24 classification stayed the same and his pay stayed the 25 same. And he was to see this computer program through.
-. . -- . . . - - .- .. .. - ~. . . . . - . . ~ . - . - . . - . . . - . - - . . . . . . .. . - ..
l i
39 l- And maybe after this time, we could have worked i
2 something out or'something could have came to light. But i
- 3. it never had a chance to materialize. i 4 MRS. SELEWSKI: So it vould have just been wait 5 and see. If he had stayed on site and --
6 MR. FAGLEY: Yeah.
7 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- taken this assignment, you 8 just would have waited to see --
i 9 MR. FAGLEY: Well, he kept on saying, I want the 10 package. Give me a package.
11 MRS. SELEWSKI: Retirement package or -- )
12 MR. FAGLEY: Give me a package. He just said 13 package. Give me a package out of here. I can't take )
14 this anymore. My health is -- I've lost all this weight.
15- It is affecting my family, affecting my wife. 'Like I say, 16 he had a wife here, very good worker, you know, and
]
1 17 everything. -
l 18 You know, so, in fact, I've seen Norm once since 19 lue 's lef t here. Sat four rows down in front of me at the i
20 football game.
21 MRS. SELEWSKI: Well, is that here in this area j 22 or -- I i
23 MR. FAGLEY: In Gainesville. !
i 24 MRS. SELEWSKI: And was anything said? !
25 MR. FAGLEY: No. I saw him. His wife sat in I
40 1 front of me. His daughter and son-in-law had season --
2 has tickets about four rows in front of me --
3 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
4 MR. FAGLEY: -- this year.
5 MRS. SELEWSKI: Ironic, huh?
6 MR. FAGLEY: Ironic.
7 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. So was this reassignment 8 done in a way to take action or reprise against --
9 MR. FAGLEY: Well, he said he --
10 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- Hallenbeck for voicing 11 concerns about procedures and --
12 MR. FAGLEY: No.
13 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- correct work --
14 MR. FAGLEY: No. Never.
15 MRS. SELEWSKI: -
practices?
16 MR. FAGLEY: Never. He said he couldn't 17 supervise the -- anymore. So do you want a supervisor 18 supervising if he doesn't want to supervise? No, you 19 don't.
20 So we -- In the interim this is a project that 21 was going to go on for a few more months. So we said, 22 okay, you can do this. And basically you're working by 23 yourself with somebody else.
24 And which we never had a chance to talk to him 25 about this because he never showed up for work again. And
41 1 we never were able to work things out or try to work i 2 things out.
3 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. So was this a decision by 4 you that was made or was it --
5 MR. FAGLEY: It was --
6 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- part of Human Resources?
7 MR. FAGLEY: It was a decision made by Ernie and 8 I. Okay?
9 MRS. SELEWSKI: Were there other alternatives 10 that were looked at, what --
11 MR. FAGLEY: We looked at other alternatives, 12 what could we do with Norm, where could we place him.
13 There was no place in Juno to put him, no other place here 14 in the plant to put him.
l 15 We thought about taking him out of welding, 16 making him a construction supervisor, but still he'd 17 report to Ernie. Anything he worked in my organization he 18 would be in contact with Ernie one way or the other.
19 Okay?
20 Like I say, the problem was with -- you know, he 21 said it was with Ernie. There's 22 other people in my 22 department. Nobody has a problem, except for Norm. So, i
~
23 I've never had anybody come complain to me about Ernie.
24 I've had people, other peers of his come to me 25 and say they can't - you know, they had trouble getting
l 4
1 42 1 cooperation out.of Norm. I think I said, well, he's a i- 2 little head strung, high strung, you know, let it go.
1 3: Word got down.- People got things going.
4 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. I'm going to go over some 5 notes and some information provided to me --
4 6 MR. FAGLEY: Okay.
$. 7 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- by Hallenbeck -- l i
j 8 MR. FAGLEY: Okay.
9 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- and ask you specific -- or
- 10 state certain specific concerns that Hallenbeck felt was ]
f
- 11 intimidation and harassment over a period of time, just i 12 get your response -- 1 l
13 MR. FAGLEY: Okay.
14 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- to'these -- some of these 15 concerns. And a lot of these I've touched on, so I'm 16 going to skip --
17 MR. FAGLEY: Right. ;
18 -MRS. SELEWSKI: -- a number of these. So did 19 Mr. Hallenbeck ever come to you and say, hey, my mental 20 health and my physical health is going downhill or --
21 MR. FAGLEY: Yes, he did.
22 MRS. SELEWSKI: And what -- And I think you did 23 touch on that somewhat, that he was losing weight and --
24 MR. FAGLEY: Yeah. He said he'd lost weight.
25 'You know, it was affecting his relationship with his
l l
43 1 family, and everything like that.
2 And I said -- I said, Norm, a lot of this is your 3 own doing. I mean, you're -- He's so wrapped up in his 1
4 job -- I'm going to say Norm was -- was very dedicated, 1
5 very wrapped up in his job. I said, you're taking things I 6 too seriously. You need to sit back and relax and don't 7 take everything to heart.
8 MRS. SELEWSKI: About what time frame do you 9 remember was that --
10 MR. FAGLEY: Well, I've said that since day one.
11 I told him he was taking things too seriously and taking 12 things to heart. I mean, it was n'ot meant in that tone or 13 that attitude or the way he implied it.
14 It's just people tell you a lot of times to do 15 things and it's -- I don't pay attention to everything 16 somebody tells me. I -- Somebody tells me something and 17 I've forgot about it two seconds later because I know he 18- didn't mean it or he's pulling your chain or something of 19 that sort.
20 MRS. L2LEWSKI: Uh-huh. He mentioned that he 21 came to you first in June of '93. And you mentioned 22 January. Was it --
23 MR. FAGLEY: Okay.
24 tiRS . SELEWSKI: I just want to be sure of the 25 dates. It might refresh your memory.
1 44 I l- MR. FAGLEY: It was in '93. Like I say, we did 2 not do a good job documenting this because we weren't out 3 to get anybody. We tried to work it out ourselves. Like 4 I say, I'm going to.say the construction clique is a good 5 old boy system.
6 But it was sometime, maybe June. All I remember 7 it was in '93.
8 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. And you just said that 9 you told him that, you know, he needed to try to get along 10 with Ernie and, you know, sometimes Ernie had an odd 11 approach to things. And just basically, you know, you l l
12 said, you try to get along with each other.
l 13 He said that you -- in July of '93 he talked to 14 you again. And you said, maybe you should take some time i
15 off from work. And this is when you said, you know, you i 16 take your job too serious -- or he said you told him that i
17 he took his job too serious.
18 And he just mentioned he needs to stop -- needs l 19 Ernie to stop harassing him. And he has a hard time i
20 concentrating on daily activities.
21 Anything else you remember about -- He says he 22 again came to you in July of '93 again and that he was 23 still havAng problems with Ernie. He says you just
}-
24 ignored the problem and you didn't respond.
25 MR. FAGLEY: I basically told him the same thing
5 l 45 i
j- 1 I told him before. I said, you're going to have to get r
2 along together. This is the way we're going to do it.
l- l 3 -I'm.not going to change.
4 And, you know, I pointed -- I told you he -- hey, !
- 5 Turkey Point's organized different than we are.- I said I !
,6 didn't care. This is the way it's going to be here.
l 7 But basically, maybe I said, you're going to have 1
8 to learn to get along. I said, I don't see a problem
!. 9 there. Nobody else has a problem with Ernie but you.
10 And I said -- Then he said he'd gc to SPEAKO T j 11 about this and NRC. And I said, Norm, you do what you 2
, 12 have to.do. I'm not telling you what to do. I'm telling F ,
13 you, you just do what you feel.like you have to do.
1 14 MRS. SELEWSKI:- He does touch on that. On i
15 July 15th,93, he says he talked to you again and, you t
, 16 know, you told him, do what you feel is necessary, there's '
l i
17 nothing I can do about the problem, is what he said you
! 18 said to him.
A
! 19 MR. FAGLEY: Basically, I was not going to give
- 20 in to his wants and wishes that he report directly to me.
! 21 I did not need him -- I did not need a headache like him 22 -- I'm going to say a headache. What I say when I mean a i 23 headache, bring me all these little trivial things.
i 24 You know,-I have~-- I'm looking after a bigger 25 scope of work than just the welding department.
I 46 1- MRS. SELEWSKI: He says you also told him that, 2 whatever you do,.just remember, you will have to live with 3 the consequences.
4 MR. FAGLEY: Yes.
5 MRS. SELEWSKI: What did you mean by that?
6 MR. FAGLEY: Basically, I told him, you know, do 7 what you have to do, Norm. Just remember, you're going to )
8 have to live with whatever you do. And I just left it 1 9 like that.
10 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. What particularly did you 11 mean by, you'd have to live with the consequences?
12 That could be --
13 MR. FAGLEY: Well --
14 MRS. SELEWSKI: That could be perceived in 15 several different things. So I wanted to get what was in ]
1 16 your mind. i 17 MR. FAGLEY: Well, in mind, just remember, 18 whatever you do, you're going to have to live with it.
19 You can do anything you want to. I'm not holding nothing 20 against you. But you're going to have to live with what ;
21 you do.
22 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
23 MR. FAGLEY: That's all.
24 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. Did you mean -- When you 25 said, consequences, did you mean some kind of employment ,
l l
47 l l
1 action taken against him --
2 MR. FAGLEY: No. Well, no, because --
3 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- some kind of reprisals?
4 MR. FAGLEY: As you can probably well tell, ;
i 5 we're not well documented, and so we never intended on i
6 taking any reprisals or anything of this thing. I thought j 7 all this could be worked out, could be worked out.
8 And he just took the different approach.
9 MRS. SELEWSKI: So what, in your mind, were you 10 -- What did you mean when you said, consequences? You had 11 to have had something -- It wasn't something negative -- l l
4 12 MR. FAGLEY: No. Negative. But I just told l 13 him, hey, whatever you do, remember, you've got to live 14 with the consequences. And, you know, if you choose to 15 run a stop sign, you're going to have -- and you get 16 pulled over, you know what the consequences are.
17 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
18 MR. FAGLEY: So I'm not saying that that was 19 normal. I just said it because whatever you do, you're 20 going to have to live with it.
21 And I -- Maybe it was taken out of context.
- 22 Maybe I said it in the wrong perspective. But every 23 action you do every day, you're going to live with what 24 you do.
l 25 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh. So you did not mean I
t I'
. ~ .
o '
48 1 that as a negative --
2 MR. FAGLEY: No. I -- No. :
3 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- employment related -- You 1 4 know, well, it you -- You know, you didn't mean that as, 5_ well, if you go.do this, you're going to get fired, or if j 6 you go do this, you're going to get a demotion --
7 MR. FAGLEY: No.
i 8 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- or if you go and do this, 9 something's going to be done to you or against you?
10 MR. FAGLEY: Never said anything about it.
11 Never demotion or firing or any disciplinary action 12 whatsoever. Never.
13 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. It appears that he, you 14 know, took that as something negative, though, 15 MR. FAGLEY: Uh-huh.
16 MRS. SELEWSKI: When you said that to him, it 17 was a kind of a threatening statement.
18 MR. FAGLEY: Well, I was not intending it to be 19 a threatening statement. I told him -- I always told him 20 that he had to do what he felt was best. And, you know, I 21 never told him not to.
22 I.said, well, I said, I think you're -- I think 23 you're blowing things out of proportion. You-don't have 24 to do this. You're not trying to work things out, Norm.
25 MRS. SELEWSKI: He said that he again talked to
i 9
49
.1 you in November o'f '93 about the problems, as he labels. 1 1
2- it, and that you became very hostile toward him. )
3 Was there a point when you were hostile towards 4 him about him coming to you again about his and Ernie's 5 relationship?
6 MR. FAGLEY: I wouldn't say I was hostile. I l l
7 may have said it with a stronger voice. I said, Norm, 8 you've got to work it out.
I'm tired of you coming to me 9 about this problem. I don't see the problem. .The 10 problem's in your head.
11 I -- Okay. And I said -- And we're.right 12 outside the-porch where the -- the smoking porch where the 13 diesel is. And I said -- And kicking around rocks. But I 14 said,.I don't see a problem, Norm. And I says, you're --
15 it's in your head. You need to get things straightened
-16 out.
17 MRS. SELEWSKI: He just said that you chose not 18 to solve the problem that he was coming to you with.
19 MR. FAGLEY: No. The problem -- I told him I 20 didn't feel there was a problem. And he kept on coming.
21- And we went to H -- He's been to H.R. He's been to all 22 that.
23 I felt that -- I told him there was no problem.
24 In my mind, it was not a problem. And I told him he had 25 to do what he thought was best.
[
50 1 Now, at that time he could have even gone to my 2 bosses. He never did. Hey, Herman and Ernie -- And he --
3 I'm going to say that. He never went over -- He went over 4 Ernie's head, but never went over my head. He could have, 5 if he wanted to. But I think that he would have got she 6 same response. .
l 7 MRS. SELEWSKI: And it looks like he started I l
8 going to Human Resources the day after that, which was i
9 November 5th, '93, started talking to them about some -- l 10 what he perceived as intimidation, harassment on'Ernie's 11 part.
12 MR. FAGLEY: Uh-huh.
13 MRS. SELEWSKI: And then he talks about the 14 meeting that you had with him in the Human Resources.
15 MR. FAGLEY: Okay.
16 MRS. SELEWSKI: And that was in January of '94.
17 If you could go off the record for a moment and 18 let me finish reviewing.
19 (Whereupon, documents were examined off the 20 record, after which the following proceedings were had:)
21 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. I'm going to repeat that 22 question. We were off the record and I'm going to repeat 23 a question that I asked.
24 Are you aware that employees have a right to 25 voice safety concerns --
l l
51
_ 1 MR. FAGLEY: Yes, I am.
2 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- and procedural concerns to 3 whomever_they feel a need to without fearing reprisal --
4 MR. FAGLEY: Correct. !
5 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- or employment actions taken 6 against them?
7 And you had mentioned that -- a safety concern, 8 thec the only safety concern that you're aware of that 9 Mr..Hallenbeck voiced was regarding an electrical --
10 MR. FAGLEY: One of his employees got a shock 11 around some of the electrical equipment that had been 12 there since the - probably installed in the '70's 13 sometime. It was degraded. It was corroded, and stuff 14 like that. And he got a shock.
15 And we found out what the problem was and ended 16 up had to do some engineer -- in-house field engineering '
17 to take care of it. And it was not budgeted for, but we 18 found -- I found budget money to take care of it. And it i
19 was addressed.
20 But now, it couldn't have been addressed right 21 away because the engineering material had to be procured.
5 22 But it was done. And it was also -- He documented it on 23 an 1880 Form, which is a site safety form, which I'd 24 rather he didn't have, because I'd have rather taken care f
25 of things in-house instead of out of house.
52 1 But it was checked out by the electricians and 2 said, hey, that faulty cord, we need to repair it.
3 MRS. SELEWSKI: And that was more of a physical
- 4 industrial safety concern --
5 MR. FAGLEY: Yes.
6 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- than a nuclear safety 7 concern?
8 MR. FAGLEY: Correct. I -- He's never related 9 to me any -- I can't recall off the top of my head right 10 now any nuclear safety concerns, except that basically he 11 said the fastest way to shut this plant down is let the 12 NRC find something wrong with the welding program, which 13 was a common statement of his.
14 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh. l l
15 MR. FAGLEY: And every time we had an audit he 16 got all uptight. As far as my concern, any group in this l 17 company or any outside group can come audit my group any 18 day of the week. We should do business the same way every l
19 day. I should not do it any differently just because I'm )
20 going to be audited. If I'm doing something wrong., I 21 should know about it.
22 MRS. SELEWSKI: Are you aware of any time that 23 Ernie compromised welding codes or requirements --
24 HR. FAGLEY: No.
25 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- for some reason or another?
l l
-53 l
l 1 MR. FAGLEY: No. Never. Sometimes, like I said 2 previously, you don't always agree with the Code or l
l 3 regulations, but that's the way the Code and regulation 4 is. Sometimes it takes years to change it, but it will 5 work that way. But it may work your way, too, but there's l 6 only -- if the Code says there's only one way of doing it, 7 there's only one way of doing it. $
1 8 But sometimes the Code says there's other ways of i
)
f- 9 doing it besides that way. So there's some interpretation 10 in the Code.
11 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh. I think we touched on 12 the deleting the welding files somewhat. And I don't L
13 remember if I asked this, so I'll ask it again --
l.
l 14 MR. FAGLEY: Yes.
15 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- to get it on record.
16 Did you ever accuse Hallenbeck of purposely l 17 deleting the welding files?
1 18 MR. FAGLEY: No, I did not. Basically, I heard 1
19 that they had been deleted. And that was it. And I said l
l 20 -- Well, and then I asked somebody, I said, I know on 21 other jobs there have been people that's deleted files l
22 from computers. Not welding files, but, you know, some 23 kind of other file. And somehow through some -- they were 24 able to recreate them or pull them out. I did ask, could i
25 that be done. Okay?
i --
1 0
54 !
i 1 Also, I think after we -- I did do this, that I 2 basically I think prior additions or letters, you know, 3 when he wasn't going to show here, after -- with that case 4 when the files had been deleted, I asked our computer 5 person or a system person, hey, can -- is there anything 6 we can do to protect the files to make sure nobody deletes 7 it, or anything like that. And he was looking into it.
8 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. So as far as j 9 Mr. Hallenbeck's technical and engineering skills, there 10 was not a problem with that?
11 MR. FAGLEY: No. Norm was very good, very 1
12 competent. He's also is very conservative, which kept you l 13 out of trouble. And he was the -'His counterpart at 14 Turkey Point was maybe a little more liberal with the 15 codes and stuff like that, which can get you in trouble 16 with the interpretation. But Norm was very conservative.
17 l He -- Technical-wise there's nothing wrong with l 18 Norm. Like I said, he drove a hard line. And he was very 19 conservative. But he kept us out of trouble. And that ;
20 was his job.
21 MRS. SELEWSKI: So in your view, there was no 22 intimidation and harassment?
23 MR. FAGLEY: No. Nothing more than a -- I'm 24 going to say he probably wasn't treated any differently 25 than any other employees in the Construction Services
. .__ - . _ _ _ _ . ~ ._ _ . _ _ _ . - _ __ . . . _ _ _ _ -
55 1 . Department.
2 Kidded about some things sometimes. Some days 3 you may be kidded, and it depends on what kind of mood 4- you're in, you take things the wrong way.
5 I don't feel like he's treated any different than 6 anybody else in the Construction Department. In fact, 7 like I said, after we started seeing it, we -- I treated 8 him with kid gloves, gave him a little bit - probably was 9 not as hard or a little more lenient on him than we would 10 be on somebody else.
11 MRS. SELEWSKI: Why do you think Norm brought 12 these concerns out and was -- over time was really 13 concerned about intimidation and harassment, and felt --
14 He felt, in his mind, that he was being intimidated and 15 harassed, it appears.
16 Why do you think he went to this length to --
17 this is your opinion --
18 MR. FAGLEY: Yeah.
19 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- to bring all this out and j 20 document the way he did and --
21 MR. FAGLEY: I really don't know. Like I say, 22 he has a tremendous ego, because when we rewrote the 23 welding procedure and did -- redid the organization chart, 24 I changed his title to welding superintendent instead of 25 welding supervisor so nobody could compare him to this
i l
l 56 i
1 other gentleman over here in the plant.
2 So if somebody came, who's in charge of welding, 3 it must be Norm Hallenbeck because he's a welding i
4 superintendent.
5 I did that for his ego. I put it : ~ ' '.le 6 organization chart like that. We put it in the procedure l l
l 7 like that. I accommodated him because it made him feel ,
8 good. As far as I'm concerned, he was in charge of 1
9 welding. ;
I 10 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh. !
11 MR. FAGLEY: Regardless of what title I can call i
12 him or whatever, he's in charge of welding. But from the 13 outside perspective, maybe he didn't like people checking 14 on him, like Ernie did, what you doing, trying to get into 15 his business or look what he -- how he administrates I 16 things. I do not know.
17 I know on other jobs I worked on I know enough 18 about welding to be dangerous. I'm not a welding expert.-
19 I've always worked on jobs if I had a welding problem or l
20 something like that, I went to a person like Norm and )
21 said, Norm, hey, we have this, what do you do. They told l
22 us what to do.
23 But, you know, I felt like I had enough knowledge 24 sometimes to ask questions.
25 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
l
. - ~ , . - . . . _ . . - -- - _ . - . - . ... - - - - . -
l 57 l
1 MR. FAGLEY: Maybe it would be stupid, maybe 2 not. But he was the expert on welding, and I expected him i j
l 3 to give that direction in the welding thing and get along 4 with people, and that sort.
5 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay.
6 MR. FAGLEY: Because he provides the service and 7 he sees a lot of people going through his -- well, you 8 know, a lui of people going through the welding department i
9 in each outage and every year. But he had an important 10 job.
11 MRS. SELEWSKI: Did you ever feel there was a l 12 personality conflict between he and Mr. Poarch?
- 1 13 MR. FAGLEY: Oh, yes. Norm made it very l
14 evident.
l 15 MRS. SELEWSKI: Did Mr. Poarch feel the same 16 way, that, you know, they just had a basic disliking of 17 each other? -
i 18 MR. FAGLEY: I don't think Ernie started out 19 that way. But towards the end I thought he saw it was
]
20 pretty much hopeless.
21 At one time they -- Norm had a motorcycle and 22 rode. You know, and at one time Ernie had a motorcycle.
23 And he sold it. But, you know, they had motorcycles in 24 common. Okay?
25 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
- n.,
! 58 i
1 MR. FAGLEY: Norm, he told us he worked here
! 2 during construction -- Ernie and I was here in 3 construction -- as a pipe fitter / welder, f
I 4M 5 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
6 MR. FAGLEY:
7 l
! 9 .
10 11 ..
l ,
~
, 13 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
i /
l 14 MR. FAGLEY:
15
\
16 .
17 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh. s 18 MR. FAGLEY: /
19 MRS. SELEWSKI- Okay.
20 .. MR. FAGLEY: y 21 g :
23 24 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
/ \
25 MR. FAGLEY:
/
o* ,
r, / ,-
59 1 /
2 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh. Okay. Is there 3 anything that you want to conclude with today on what his 4 allegations are or the reasons for anything?
5 MR. FAGLEY: No. I don't think he was harassed.
6 Like I said, Norman is a very -- he takes his work very l
7 seriously. He is very good at his work, technical. I 8 think he took it too seriously. I told him that. l 9 Like I said, I think he had a big ego problem, l l
10 which I think was part of the nature of his business. And 4
11 I've always said that, you know, I consider him a prima 12 donna, but I figured -- you know, I told you why.
3 l
13 And I also said that if you had a hundred-watt 14 light bulb on you, he has to have 101. He has to shine 15 more. He needs -- I didn't give him the personal stroking 16 maybe other people did.
17 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
18 MR. FAGLEY: I did not go and talk to him. The 19 only thing we did talk about non-job related was that his
~
20 son and daughter were big Gator fans. Okay? --
21 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
22 MR. FAGLEY: And in fact, I helped get his 23 daughter and son-in-law tickets to the Sugar Bowl, not j 24 this year, year before last.
25 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
) ///
l l
60 1 MR. FAGLEY: I mean, I went out of my way to I 2 get --
3 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
4 MR. cAGLEY: -- to find somebody that can get 5 him tickets for his daughter and son-in-law.
6 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh. Well, that's not 7 intimidation and harassment, is it.
8 MR. FAGLEY: No. I mean, I -- And he did 9 mention, well, we should get together sometire after the 10 game. We never did in Ocala. But my schedule, at that 11 time I was going up and back to the game the same day. We 12 never did meet socially.
13 I did have a departmental cookout in my house a 14 couple times. The first of the year I had it him and 15 Joanna came. Last year it was in the middle of this 16 thing. They were invited, but they did -- they chose not 17 to attend.
18 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
19 MR. FAGLEY: I saw one of the people here that l
20 had a - part owner in a motorcycle shop and he had a {
21 grand opening, and they invited me to come. And I drove l 22 my wife down there to a bunch of Harley -- She's not too l l
23 much on motorcycles.
24 And Norm and Joanna was there, along with Dale 25 and his wife. And,.you know, we -- basically, they were
~. - - . - - . . - - . - - .. -. -- -. . . _ - - - - _ . . . . . .~
l 61
)
I the only people I knew there, so I talked to them and j l
2 stayed for about 30, 40 minutes. i 3 MRS. SELEWSKI: Uh-huh.
4 MR. FAGLEY: You know, because somebody asked me l a
l 5 to come. Had a hot dog and a hamburger and a couple 1
s 6 beers.
7 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay.
l 8 MR. FAGLEY: And so other than that --
l 1
I 9 MRS. SELEWSKI: There's no other summary that 10 you want to provide regarutag -- !
1 l
11 MR. FAGLEY: No. I -- I
~
12 MRS. SELEWSKI: -- his concerns and --
13 MR. FAGLEY: No. Basically, I don't think he i 14 was treated any differently than anybody else. I think 15 him and Ernie -- And I got involved in it because I 16 supported Ernie.
i 17 And let me say, I'm not -- Another thing he l I
18 mentioned, that it was Dick Parks, whose place I took, l l
19 didn't do it this way. I know Dick Parks. I worked for 20 Dick Parks before. I know Dick. I worked for him at --
21 before over in Indian Town. And I worked for him here in 22 St. Lucie. I know Dick Parks. Dick manages differently 23 than I did and I have. And --
24 MRS. SELEWSKI: You think that was part of the 25 problem with just different management styles between Dick
i 62 1 Parks and you and --
2 MR. FAGLEY: Possible. And the person between 3 him and Dick was a very -- he was a non-technical person
, 4 and not as strong a person as Ernie. And basically, he 5 did whatever he wanted with Dwight. And Ernie wasn't --
2 6 You know, hey, he's responsible for the budget and the 7 schedule and how things were administrated. And Ernie s .
8 wanted to know what things were going on. And he asked 1
i
) questions. Arid he thought that was intimidation.
10 MRS. !1ELEWSKI: Uh-huh. Okay. Anything else?
11 MR. FAGLEY: No.
12 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. Did you give your 13 statement today voluntarily? l l
14 MR. FAGLEY: Yes, I did. l l
15 MRS. SELEWSKI: Okay. I appreciate your time i
16 today.
17 MR. FAGLEY: Okay.
18 MRS. SELEWSKI: And we'll go ahead and close 19 this interview.
20 (Whereupon, these proceedings were concluded at 21 1:00 o' clock p.m.)
22 -----
23 24 25
l C3
- l 1 CERTIFICATE 2 This is to certify that the attached proceedings I 3 before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in u j
4 the matter of:
1 5 Name of Proceeding: Interview of Herman Fagley 1
6 Docket Number (s): (not assigned) l 7 Place of Proceeding: St. Lucie Nuclear Plant, 8 ,
Jensen Beach, Florida )
9 10 were held as herein appears, and that this la the original 11 transcript thereof for the file of the United States 12 Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter 13 . reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the 14 court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true 15 and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
16
<di t n
[ 'lPeggy l -
,) '
19 S. May 1
20 . Official Reporter 21 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc.
i 22 23 24 25 26
. .