ML20113G037
| ML20113G037 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | River Bend  |
| Issue date: | 07/19/1995 |
| From: | Soni A ENTERGY OPERATIONS, INC. |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20113F955 | List: |
| References | |
| FOIA-96-155 NUDOCS 9609260108 | |
| Download: ML20113G037 (53) | |
Text
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA l 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 + ++++
4 OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS 5 INTERVIEW i 6 ---------------------------------x 7 IN THE MATTER OF: :
8 INTERVIEW OF :
9 ALLAN SINGH SONI :
10 :
11 ---------------------------------X l 12 Wednesday, July 19, 1995 13 14 Riverbend Station I
15 Conference Room 16 5485 U.S. Highway 61 17 St. Francisville, Louisiana 18 19 The above-entitled interview was conducted at 20 8:00 a.m., when where present: ;
21 22 Cl,I:iO. .1 - 9 ~ - 0 1 6 *. EXH!U-
, 23
+<. YT,_p:ges 24 25
" ' bb 4 9609260108 960815 count nepoATERS AND TRANSCRIBERS PDR FOIA l CARDE96-155 PDR 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202)2344433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4433
, t a- , .- ,--
1 ON BEHALF OF THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION: ,-
2 JONATHAN ARME:TA, JR., Investigator ,.
t 3 DENNIS BOAL, Investigator 4 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission l l
5 Office of Investigations !
6 611 Ryan Plaza Drive, Suite 400 ,
i 7 Arlington, Texas 76011 ,
~
8 9 ON BEHALF OF THE ENTERGY OPERATIONS, INC.:
10- DOUGLAS E. LEVANWAY, ESQ.
11 Wise Carter Child & Caraway i
12 600 Heritage Building 13 Jackson, Mississippi 39205 l 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 l
24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT AEPOATERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W i202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 2344433
1 EEgCgggIggS 2 MR. BOAL: For the record, this is an )
3 interview of Mr. Allan Soni whose date of birth is August 4 10, 1952, who is employed by Entergy Operations, i
5 Incorporated, at Riverbend Station. i 6 Today's date is July 19, 1995, and the time is 7 approximately 8:17 a.m.
l 8 Additionally present at this interview is Mr.
9 Jonathan Armenta, Jr., investigator, NRC Office of I 10 Investigations, Region IV; Mr. Dennis Boal, NRC Office of i 11 Investigations, Region IV; Mr. Douglas E. Levanway, j l
12 attorney with Wise Carter Child & Caraway, who represents '
13 Entergy Operations, Incorporated and is present here with 14 your permission.
15 Is that correct, Mr. Soni? f 16 MR. SONI: That is right.
17 MR. BOAL: Mr. Soni, what is your job title 18 with Entergy Operations, Incorporated?
19 MR. SONI: Supervisor, engineering. )
20 MR. BOAL: All right. And this interview is 21 being transcribed, tape recorded by Ms. Sandra McCray, and 22 pertains to a voluntary interview with Mr. Soni pertaining 23 to an alleged violation of '0 CFR 50.7.
24 At this time, Mr. Soni, may I ask you to 25 please stand, ao I can administer an oath to you.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W 202a 234 4433 WASHtNGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4433
1 MR. SONZ: Sure.
2 Whereupon, 3 ALLAN SINGH SONI 4 having been first duly sworn, was called as a witness l 5 herein and was examined and testified as follows:
6 MR. BOAL: Please be seated.
i 7 EXAMINATION 8 BY MR. BOAL:
l l
9 Q Mr. Soni, how long have you worked for I
10 Riverbend Station? l l
2 11 A Since 1984.
1 12 Q And could you tell us what your education 13 background is.
14 A I did my electrical engineering from Indian 1
15 Institute of Technology, India, and since then I completed 16 my master's in power engineering from Washington State 17 University at Pullman.
l 18 Q Did you work at a nuclear power station prior
{
19 to 1984?
20 A Yes.
d l 21 Q Which one was that?
22 A At Washington Public Power Supply System in 23 Richland, Washington.
24 Q And ', hat were your duties there?
25 A I was lead electrical engineer with an i NEAL R. GROSS
, COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W 5202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 2344433
[
Roe.
nhodes. % c i
1 architect firn called Burns &
i 1
2 Q And could you give us the dates of that 1 3 employment?
4 A I started in 1977 and terminated my employment 5 in 1984 when I joined Gulf States Utilities. l 6 Q For the last five years at Riverbend Station, 1 7 could you tell us your job titles and supervisors.
1 8 A In last five years, I have been a supervisor j 9 of design engineering. My responsibilities varied from 10 equipment qualification, procurement engineering, 11 component database, and safety classification. I used to j i
12 have all these responsibilities.
13 With Entergy taking over Gulf States and they 14 streamlined the processes, and presently I am supervisor 15 of procurement engineering. I l
16 Q And how long have you had that position?
3 17 A I -- since merger, I guess, in -- a year and a 18 half.
19 Q About December of 1993?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And how many employees do you have, sir?
22 A Currently I have six EOI people, two 23 contractors, and I have two open positions.
24 Q Could you explain to us when you first heard 25 about the ranking system here at Riverbend Station.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TAANSCRIBERS 1323 AHODE ISL AND AVENUE N V'
+202: 234.4433 e, ASMiNGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4 433
1 A Could you repeat that, please.
1
- 1 l
l 2 Q Could you tell us when you first heard about !
l' I
j 3 the ranking system here at Riverbend Station? l 1
- 4 A It has been about a year. I guess last year J 5 around October, September or October time frame, we had ,
i 6, heard about the ranking process. l 7 Q Did you receive formal training about the i
1
) 8 ranking process?
1 9 A Yes.
1
- 10 Q And when they presented that to you, did they
! 11 explain what the purpose of the ranking process was?
j 12 A Yes.
j 13 Q Could you tell us what that purpose is.
l 14 A Yes. The purpose of the ranking process is to 15 identify people in the -- who are -- who have exceptional j 16 performance, and at the same time, identify people who are 17 at the bottom relative to the peers.
i 18 And the main goal of the ranking process is l
- 19 since we are going to a new competitive environment, to i
4 j 20 improve performance at Riverbend Station.
I l 21 Q Did the improvement in performance include
! 22 reduction in staff? Was that --
1 23 A That was not the intent. We have explained 24 that there are people will be let go because of the 4
4 l 25 ranking process, but it wasn't -- the purpose was not to ,
l NEAL R. GROSS COUAT AEPORTERS AND TAANSCRIBERS 1323 AMODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W j i 6202i 234 4433 W ASHiNGTON D C 20005 (202) 234-4433 4
. - - - - ..n- , - -.- , , ,- - w -- .- ,
1 climinate positions.
2 Q Did you receive training in the implementation i 3 of that ranking process?
4 A Yes, sir. ;
5 Q Did you rank employees?
I 6 A Yes.
7 Q I believe you had about eight employees or six 8 employees.
i 9 A Yes. At that time, I had probably nine.
10 Q At that time, you had nine.
11 A Uh-huh.
12 Q of those nine employees, did any of those 13 employees receive a ranking of 9?
14 A You mean, in the rating when I did it or --
15 Q Yes, sir. When you did.
16 A The way the ranking is administered is at my 17 level, I just rank the people 1 through how many, you 18 know, 1 through 12, okay, based on performance and 19 potential. And then we roll that up to a manager's level 20 where we account for the same people with other groups.
21 And then it gets rolled up to the director and then vice !
22 president's level.
23 Ultimately when it rolled up, yes, one 24 individual from my group was ranked 9. l 25 Q When you rolled it up to your manager -- the ;
l NEAL R. GROSS l COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W
>202) 2344413 W ASHINGTON O C 20005 (202)2344433 .,
l l
1 first question is: Who is your manager?
2 A Bill Mashburn.
3 0 Were there other supervisors that you rolled 4 up to Mr. Mashburn with? l 5 A Right.
6 Q How many other supervisors were there?
l 7 A There were two of them, two additional. !
8 Q Did you have discussions with Mr. Mashburn 9 about how you placed people in the numbers or the 10 categories?
11 A We had several, maybe two meetings, discussing i
12 all our employees, how we ranked them, what their .
1 13 education is, what their performance is, what was my 14 criteria to rank these guys 1 through 7, in terms of 15 potential and performance. So we had a collective 16 discussion.
17 Q Did that result in a change of ranking for 18 your --
19 A Yes.
20 Q -- employees?
21 A Yes.
22 Q When you were doing that, was there a 23 direction or impetus to put a certain classification of 24 employees in the bottom rankings?
25 A No. There was no direction, but the way the NEAL R. GROSS COUAT AEPOATERS AND TRANSCRIBER $ l l
1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W 12021 234 4433 W ASHINGTON. O C 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 ranking worked was in my opinion or in my way of knowing !
2 of people, I ranked the individuals. And then when it 3 rolls up, you have to compare that group of individuals 4 with individuals from other groups to ensure that maybe if 5 I have all good people and if they are all better than 6 people that my other supervisor has, that is possible 7 that, you know, my guys don't have to be in block 9. l 8 so you are first doing a kind of within-your-9 group comparison, and then you are comparing it with i l
10 others. So when I went to my peers for -- to Mashburn for l
11 comparison, I had at least felt that there were at least l 12 two people who need to be in block 9. But when we rolled 13 up and discussed it, it ended up that only one guy ended 14 up in 9. That is why I mentioned that there was a change.
15 Q The person that you put in block 9, what kind 16 of criteria did you use when you originally had him in i
I 17 block 9' 18 A Performance and potential.
1 19 Q Performance, was that as measured by the 20 employee evaluation forms or procedure here, or was that 21 by their history, or was that your current?
22 A It was kind of both. But when we did the 23 ranking, it was pretty much as of that day, how that 24 person stood relative to others. Now, that same 25 individual may have received fully competent or average or NEAL R. GROSS COURT AEPOATERS AND TRANSCAiBERS 1323 AMODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W
.202) 234 4433 W ASHtNGTON D C 20005 (202) 23m33
y - .. ,x- ~ -- -_a --.~a .-.a - s - - . - . - u -
1 oven excellent ratings in the past, but when you do the 2 ranking, you have to rank one excellent guy against the 3 other, and at that time, you decide as a supervisor that 4 who is first and who is second and who is third and so on.
5 Q Was that a difficult process for you to -- ,
6 A It was.
7 Q -- undertake? When you were initially doing ,
8 that, did you know that a person ranked as category 9 may 9 be separated from employment at Riverbend Station?
10 A Yes.
i 11 Q You knew that?
12 A Right. That if he receives a 9 again, he will 13 be separated. You mean, he will be given a voluntary 14 package, or you mean --
15 Q Right. Yes, sir. Well, what I meant was the 16 initial 9 would result in --
17 A Voluntary package?
18 Q Yes, sir. Were you aware of that?
19 A I don't know if I knew at that time that they 20 would be given voluntary package or -- I don't know. I 21 knew -- the only thing I knew for sure was that if he is 22 given a 9 and then we will rank him again the following 23 year, and if he is 9 again, then he is gone. I knew that 24 for sure.
25 Q Was there any consideration made when you were NEAL R. GROSS COUAT REPOATERS AND TRANSCRIBEAS 1323 AMODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 2344433 WASMiNGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4433 l
r 1 assigning the rankings to your employees as to whether or 2 not they may have been whistleblowers or brought up 3 employee concerns? Was there any kind of direction made 4 to you --
5 A No.
6 Q -- to consider those kind of people? ,
7 A No. Not at all.
8 Q It was strictly --
9 A Strictly --
10 Q -- performance --
11 A -- performance and potential.
12 Q Were you provided guidelines to determine what 13 potential is, or how to define potential?
14 A In the -- we had training provided by human I
15 resources, and we were provided a booklet. I think it is 16 the booklet that you have there.
17 Q This blue booklet, Management Planning and 18 Review Ranking Process?
19 A That is right, and that defines how -- what 20 potential means and what performance means, and it gives j l 21 certain criteria to go by.
22 Q With the training and the directions you were i
1 23 provided, was there also, in your opinion, some 1 i l i
24 subjectivity involved in how you --
25 A I think in any evaluation process, there is I
NEAL R. GROSS COUAT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE N W.
42023 234 4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4433 w , r-
- --... . .- - _ - ._--- . . - . - _ . . . ~ . _ . . . - . - . - . _ - . . . _ . . -
1 ,some subjectivity involved, especially when you are i-2 talking about potential, and even to some extent on
~3 performance. There is subjectivity involved.
4 Q Do you believe that with the roll-up process, 5 that enacted -- that that enacted some form of check and 6 balance to perhaps compensate for such activity?
7 A That is right.
8 Q In your opinion, was this process a fair ;
9 process for the employees?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Were you subsequently ranked by the same 12 process?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Was your ranking a category 9 in the 15 subsequent process?
16 A No.
17 Q Do you know what your ranking was?
18 A No.
19 Q Was the process described as such that the 20 only persons that knew their ranking were the category 9 21 personnel?
22 A No.
23 Q Did you provide your employees with what their 24 ranking was?
25 A No.
NEAL R. GROSS COUAf AEPORTERS AND TAANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202)234 4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4433
1 Q Were you allowed to?
2 A No.
3 Q What was your direction about informing them 4 what their ranking was?
5 A There was a little bit of confusion initially 6 that we will be told what category the individual is, like 7 not so much in terms of the block, but they will be told 8 whether they are in the first tier, second tier, or the 9 third tier. And that was the training given, that 10 employees will be told. But subsequently the directions 11 came that only the block 9s will be informed; the rest 12 will not be even informed of what tier they belong to.
13 Q So this was an evolving process.
14 A That is right.
15 Q It appeared to have changed --
16 A Right Well, we were doing -- you know, I 17 think we were doing it the first time here, and everybody ,
1 18 is learning.
19 Q Do you know the source of the process? ;
A What do you mean source? Where it originated 20 21 from?
22 O Yes, sir.
i 23 A If I remember, during the training we were 24 told that this process has been osed in other companies 25 like Kodak and General Electric, and it has worked very NEAL R. GROSS COUAT AEPORTE AS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE N W WASH'NGTON O C 20005 (202) 234-4433 i20B 2344433
1 well in several companies tha'c they benchmarked. There l 2 was a QAT headed by human resources personnel they 3 benchmark and'came up and found that this is the way to 4 improve performance in a company.
5 Q In your opinion, do you believe that it has 6 accomplished that --
7 A It has definitely sparked a lot of people.
8 Q In your opinion, were the employees well 9 informed about the intent and the process of ranking?
10 A I think intent, yes. But the process, as I 11 said, it was evolving. We probably didn't do that good a j 12 job in letting everybody know how it is exactly going to 13 happen.
I 14 Q Were you provided direction as to how to 15 inform the person who was eventually placed in the 16 category 9?
17 A I think I -- we discussed with the manager, 18 and we decided that this is the way we are going to do it.
S.
l 19 Basically we called him to come to my manager's office, t
3 1 20 and we both informed him of his ranking.
j 21 Q Did you also have a human resources person i
22 present?
l 23 A I don't remember. He was supposed to come. ]
! l 24 Did he come? I don't remember. ,
4 i
- 25 Q Do you recall the reaction of the employee NEAL R. GROSS l COUAT AEPORTE AS AND TRANSCAIBE AS 5323 AMODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W j i2 con 2344433 A ASHINGTON O C 20005 (202) 234 4433
I when you told him he was in block 9?
2 A He was pretty calm.
I 3 2 Was he surprised?
4 A He wasn't, but he did say that he does not 1
5 agree, but if that is the way it is, that is the way it i 6 is.
7 .Q Is that employee still with the company?
l 8 A Yes.
9 Q Did he receive a performance improvement plan?
10 A Yes.
11 Q When this ranking process was explained to 12 you, was it explained that a certain percentage of 13 employees would be in the category 9?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q Do you recall what that percentage was?
16 A Ten percent.
l 17 Q I am sorry? !
18 A Ten percent.
19 Q And that 10 percent would rank -- would 20 indicate personnel whose performance and potential was the 21 lowest on the site here.
22 A on the scale, right, relative to others.
23 Q Did the employees -- excuse me. Did the 24 emplo ee ranked as category 9 have an appeal or a rebuttal 25 process for that?
NEAL R. GROSS COUAT REPORTERS AND TAANSCAIBERS 1323 AMODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W 2C2i 234 4433 W ASMiNGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4433
1 A No.
2 Q In your area of procurement, are you familiar 3 with employees being reterred to as whistleblowers?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Are those employees treated differently from 6 other employees?
7 A No.
8 Q In your knowledge, were any of the employees 9 that you knew that had the label whistleblowers, were 10 those personnel assigned to a category 9 to your 11 knowledge?
12 A No. In fact, I think even in Gulf States and 13 especially when Entergy took over, we took a lot of effort 14 in letting everybody know that they have to identify 15 problems. I mean, if they see a problem, they have to 16 write one.
17 Q Have to write one?
i 18 A They have to document the problem. !
19 Q The problem?
20 A Right. So that it can be evaluated and 21 resolved.
22 Q In your experience, using the ranking process 23 as a benchmark, employee concerns or problem 24 identification before the ranking and then after the 25 ranking, is there a difference in the amount?
NEAL R. GROSS
- COURT AEPORTERS AND TAANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W
<2026 234 4433 WASHINGTON O C 20005 (202) 234-4433 l
I 1 A Repeat that, please.
j 2 Q Using the initiation of the ranking process -- i l
3 let us say, October 1994 was when it was initiated.
4 A Right.
! 5 Q Okay. Up to tuat point, the amount of j
j 6 employee concerns or problem identification that you are 1
1 7 aware of, did it change afterwards?
j 8 A Oh --
i i
4 9 Q Up or down or the same, in your opinion, or in lo your experience? I am sorry.
11 A I think if at all, it probably went up. There l
12 were problems identified. That is just from my feeling of 1
13 the number of condition reports that I see, and I don't
} l
} 14 have the data. But I think that could be checked very j i
j 15 easily, how many condition reports were initiated in '94
+ !
- 1 i 16 versus '95.
17 0 In your experience, do you think this ranking )
! 18 process as had an effect on employee morale? l i
j 19 A Oh, on the morale?
l 20 Q Yes, sir.
! . 21 A Probably has.
1 l 22 Q In what manner? ,
23 A Just the uncertainty.
! )
24 Q So it would be a negative effect?
25 A It'has impact on the morale, and, you know, I NEAL R. GROSS l COURT AEPOATERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AMODE ISLAND AVENUE N W i20262344433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 2344433
._ - _ ~ - - - . . _ , - .
1 don't know how digferent people react to different, but 2 the key is that, you know, people need to understand that, 3 and they need to accept the change and go with it. l 4 MR. BOAL: I am about out of qusstions hera.
5 Jonathan, did you have some?
6 MR. ARMENTA: Yes.
l 7 BY MR. ARMENTA: l I
8 Q Mr. Soni, you -- Mr. Boal asked you about if 9 you knew what your ranking was. You said no. Did that i
10 bother you?
l l
11 A Initially it did, but then later on --
12 Q How long is later on? A week? Two weeks? A 13 month?
l 14 A Oh, yes. Just -- you know, first I thought, 15 well, I probably would like to know what my ranking is, 16 you know, where I stood, but then later on when I was put 17 in their shoes and looked my people with that perspective, 18 that really does it matter if I tell a guy that he is 19 block 4 or 5. In fact, I came to the conclusion it is 20 better I not, because there is not a whole lot of 21 difference between 4 and 6, and the only thing it will do 22 is it can upset the person for no reason.
23 Q So how long --
24 A So just on that I felt --
25 Q -- did it take you to come to that conclusion?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT AEPORTERS AND TRANSCAIBERS 1323 AMODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W 202) 234 4433
- ASHINGTON O C 20005 (202) 234 4433
1 A Not too long, because it was kind of --
2 Q- Approximately a year? Six months?
3 A- No. Maybe just a few days.
4 Q A few days, about a week?
5 A Yes.
6 Q So then at that time, it didn't bother you 7 anymore.
8 A No.
9 Q Okay. Would it surprise you if you would find 1
10 out that you are an 8? Would it surprise you?
11 A It is not supposed to happen, because the way 12 our performance and review cycle works, when we do a 13 yearly review, the people who are in the lower category, 14 without telling them it should be pretty evident where 15 they fall.
16 My performance appraisal was pretty good, so I 17 don't think I am an 8. But, yes. It will surprise me if 18 I am 8, based on that performance appraisal.
19 Q So what you are saying, then, if an employee 20 has good performance appraisal and he is ranked an 8 or 9, 21 should be a matter to be concerned with or surprising?
22 A Right. If that appraisal done in 1995, the 23 most recent appraisal done in 1995.
24 Q And --
25 A And I am not talking about the GSU appraisals.
NEAL R. GROSS COUAT PEPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE N W i202 234 4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 2344433
1 Q No, I know.
2 A The Entergy appraisal done prior to informing 3 the person of the ranking, that should -- the word should l l
4 pretty much reflect what -- kind of he should an idea l 5 where he falls. !
6 Q In other words, if I am an 8, I would know i 7 this in '94. Right? It is just a scenario. If I am an 8 8, I would know where I rank, so I keep on working, and I 9 am meeting or exceeding my goals in every evaluation, 10 que ly evaluation. You know, you are doing real good, 11 Jc: You are right on track. But here comes t
12 October, and I am ranked 9.
13 A That is possible.
14 Q That is possible? i 15 A Yes.
16 Q And is that surprising?
l 17 A (No response.) :
I 18 Q Would it -- let me ask you this question. f 19 Would it surprise you that that may have happened or that ;
i 20 could happen in this ranking process? l 4
21 A I guess it could happen. !
! 22 Q And I think you answered Mr. Boal's question
! 23 whether the system was fair. 11 it would happen to you, 24 would you think the system would be fair?
l 25 A I think whenever you are personally involved, NEAL R. GROSS COVAT AEPOATERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W f
, (202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON. D C 20005 (202) 234-4433 4
i 1 I feel the person is, you know, right now affected, and he i !
l 2 can never say it will be fair. If I am block 9, no matter '
3 what, even if it is right block 9, I will say it is never ;
- 4 fair. l 4
5 Q Do you think there are any -- l 1 ;
6 A As a supervisor doing the ranking, I believe i
- 7 it is fair. l i
1 '
i 8 Q Do you think there are any guarantees for'an 4 ,
i :
9 employee to be protected -- and I mean protected by -- not !
10 in the sense of a whistleblower; I mean, is there any l
11 guarantee of an employee not to be ranked 9 if some !
I i
) 12 supervisors just don't like that employee?
13 A there potentiali p 4 l
14 Q Is there a guarantee in the system? )
i 4
15 A Oh, is there a guarantee --
i 16 Q To prohibit an employee that is not liked by i
17 supervisors eventually be ranked a 9?
18 A I would say there are barriers and mechanisms 19 in place that that will not happen.
20 Q My question was: Is there a guarantee?
21 A But 100 percent assurance, you can never be 22 sure.
23 Q When you ranked your employees, you said you 24 had only one rank 9; you ranked --
25 A When I did the ranking, my perception was that NEAL R. GROSS COUAT REPOATERS AND TRANSCA:BERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W 62021 234 4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 2344433
1 there were two people who should be ranked 9 in my group.
2 Q How did you rank them? Did you rank them 9?
3 A Okay. The -- when we did the ranking, we 4 really did not put the people in the blocks. Okay. We 5 just --
6 Q What number -- my question is: What number 7 did you assign?
8 A We did not give. What we did, all we did was 9 we just put the people this category, I through 12.
10 Q Okay.
11 A All right. And that is the way we did it.
12 That is all at supervisors' level we did. I have 12 13 people; I will pufthem 1 thrcugh 12. Okay. And then when 14 we rolled up and we compared, you know, I with 1, 2 with 15 2, 12 with 12, and then they were put in the blocks.
16 Q Okay. When you rolled up your employees, how 17 many of your employees ended up in the lower tier? ,
18 A In the lower tier? Three.
19 Q Out of those three, how many were -- did you !
20 assign as a 9?
i 21 A It ended up when it rolled up, it ended up at i
22 one, one as block 9.
l 23 Q Oh, okay. Did you agree with that?
24 A Yes.
25 Q So as far as you as a supervisor, you would NEAL R GROSS COURT AEPOATE AS AND TRANSCRIBERS 13/3 AMODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W i202n 2344433 W ASHINGTON O C 20005 (202) 2344433
1 1 agree that that employee was a 9.
1 2 A Yes. But I wanted another guy who should be 1 3 9, but it didn't happen.
4 Q Okay. When you laid your spread sheet there 5 as you showed me on page -- what --
6 A It is ranking process, steps, guidelines and 7 rules. Step 1, Individual Supervisor's Rule. It does not 8 have a page number.
9 Q Okay. And I am going to read off of that; I 10 am going to be referring to that page. It is entitled, 11 Ranking Process', Steps, Guidelines, and Rules, 12 continuation step 1, where it has A column, B column, C 13 column, and in the A column you list your 12 employees 14 alphabetically. Is that correct, Mr. Soni? l l
15 A No.
16 Q They are not in alphabetical order?
17 A Yes. In the first column, yes.
18 Q Is that correct? Is that what you did? Did 19 you list your employees in alphabetical order?
20 A I don't know if listed them alphabetically, 21 but I have a list of names. I may have used just the 22 telephone directory that I have, and it will be 23 alphabetical --
24 Q When you made your list, did it matter who was 25 first and who was last?
NEAL R. GROSS COUAT AEPORTE AS AND T AANSCAIBERS 1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W v202i 234-4433 WASHINGTON O C 20005 (202)2344433
i 1 A I had -- no. I had just a list of my 2 employees.
3 Q When you put them on column-B, what did you 4 have to do to number each employee?
5 A Based on the performance, I had to -- no. I l 1
6 won't say rank them. I had to give them -- put them in 1
7 the numeric sequence, bar.,ed on performance.
8 Q And this numerical sequence, what did it
! 9 signify? l 10 A That number 1 means the best performer; number j i
i 11 12 means the worst performer. l 12 Q If you were not ranking them, you were at 13 least rating them. Is that correct?
I
.! 14 A That is right.
1 15 .Q And you said you based it on performance.
l i
4 j 16 What basis did you use?
j 17 A The basis I used was relative performance they 1
i l
j 18 perform in that group.
1 3
19 Q I mean, what did you use?
i 20 A I have -- in my system, I have different i 21 methods to measure performance. I keep a spread sheet and a
22 graphs on each individual, that shows how many evaluations l 23 a person has done, how many errors he may have made. So i
l 24 based on that --
1 25 Is this form that you just finished talking
~
Q NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS i 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W i2021 234 4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 2344433
- _ ~ -. . - - _ _ - . ._ . - _ - - - _ . - . .- - _ - - _ . -
1 about, is that in the ranking process? Does every 2 supervisor have that? ,
i 3 A No. !
4 Q So what does the process tell you, how to i
5 evaluate them?
6 A The process says that as a supervisor, knowing 7 their performance, whichever method you use --
8 Q Okay. '
9 A It doesn't say --
10 Q Before you go on, right there, whichever How 11 performance -- using the performance, my question is:
12 did you derive at Mr. Morris as -- I am just using this 13 name for the record -- that Mr. Morris was number 1 and 14 Mr. Phillips was number 12?
15 A Based on my supervision for so many years, I ,
1 16 know all these guys from so many years.
17 Q I understand that the ranking process only <
i l i
j 18 goes 12 months. l
( l 4
19 A Right. But all I am saying is: I know these
- I
! 20 people, and -- plus I have the performance chart on each t,
Okay. And based on the productivity, I ;
21 one of them. I I
22 ranked them.
1 23 Q Does every supervisor have a performance 24 chart?
25 A I don't know.
NEAL R. GROSS C'J >AT REPORTERS AND TAANSCAiBERS 1323 AMODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 2344433 s202) 2344433
1 Q So is this something that you individually r
i I 2 have done? r 3 A That is right. No. I don't know if others 4 have done, but every supervisor has a means to gauge the 5 employee. That is one of their jobs. I mean, does 6 everybody use my method? I don't know.
7 Q No. I am trying to see if everybody is using 8 the same method --
9 A No. I doubt if everybody uses the same l, 10 method. It is --
11 Q So we are going to have a variance? l 12 A In terms of how you decide on performance, 13 there will be variance, because different people perform 14 different jobs. And so there will be a variance on how 15 you measure the performance, because it is not really the 16 same.
17 Q Did you take a look at the personnel file 18 before rating them?
19 A I didn't as such, you know, took out a 20 personnel file on each individual. The -- there were two 21 reasons. One is that these people have been working with I
22 me from the last several years, so I knew what their 23 performance has been.
24 Secondly, this raaking process was meant to 25 rate people relatively to one another and has got nothing l
NEAL R. GROSd COU':lf AEPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AMODE ISLAND AVENUE N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON O C 20005 (202) 234 4433 1
1 to do with the absolute performance that they are doing.
2 Q You are in a position where you have !
3 supervised employees that have been with you for more than !
4 two or three years. '
i 5 A Yes. !
6 Q So you have the benefit of, as you said, prior 7 experience.. If we were to ask you to support your opinion 8 as to how you rated these employees, what supportive 9 documents would you give us? ;
1 10 A Well, as I said, one supportive document that l 11 I can show is the productivity that they have done prior l 12 to the ranking. Even today, I can show you who has done 13 what in the last six months.
14 Q Well, you can show me a graph, but what does 15 that graph represent? I mean, how can you show me in 16 terms of employee production?
17 A That graph will tell you -- this is the 18 overall graph here. I don't have it by the individual.
19 This tells me that we did 168 beans, and these 168 beans 20 are divided by each guy, that this guy did 50, this guy 21 did 60, this guy did 20.
22 Q I understand that.
23 A Okay.
24 Q But how can you support that this person did 25 168 beans?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
'323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W i202#2344433 WASHINGTON. O C 20005 (20?) 234 4433
_ j
_ _ = _ . _ _ _ _ _ . __ _ _ _ _ ._ _ . _ _ . _ . _ _ _ _ . _ _ . - . __
1 A Because we have a system to record every bean i
i 2 when a person does. It gets logged in, logged out, and 3 gets charged to a person.
4 Q So you have something to support chese charts. ,
I 5 A That is right.
i l 6 I Q What else do you have besides this, to support l
7 behavioral characteristics?
I 8 A In the PP&R, we do have a form that gives us l 9 the behavioral characteristics on teamwork, creativity, i 10 communications, and as time goes on, you do make a 11 notation if a guy didn't do that well with the customer 12 satisfaction. I do make notes on people, if somebody 13 calls and says, Hey, you know, this guy came and he did 14 this good, but he didn't do this good. I will make notes, 15 and I will tell the guy.
1 16 Q When you said --
17 A So, you know, means like that.
18 Q When you tell your staff -- how often do you 19 communicate with your staff, to tell them how they are 20 doing?
21 A I try it and do it continuous.
22 Q Once a week?
23 A I don't know if I have a set pattern. I would 24 think that when I see that if a person is not doing 25 something right or it is not to my satisfaction, I would NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPOATERS A? O TRANSCA6BERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W
<202) 2344433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4433
1 call him and tell him, and otherwise, if he has done good, 2 I would tell him that, hey, you know, you did excellent on 3 this.
4 Q When was the last time that you evaluated --
5 A Did a few yesterday -- oh, you mean, any 6 individual? ]
7 Q That he went over the evaluation, your PPR?
8 A I don't know if I would call -- no. It is not l
l I
9 a PP&R. As I said, it is just continuous on incident 10 basis. I give continuous feedback.
11 Q So what you are saying is that your employee 12 is kept apprised by you as to how he is doing.
13 A Right.
14 Q So in your case, none of your employees were 15 surprised by the -- by how they were ranked.
l 16 A I don't think so.
- 17 Q Okay. I think you mentioned earlier that the i
18 one that was ranked a 9 was not too surprised.
j 19 A Right. He said, Oh, yes' that is fine. l i
j 20 Q So if you turn around here, if you turn around j 21 and look at the blackboard, is this what happens in the 22 roll-up process, Mr. Soni, in that when you as a l
23 supervisor give up your first evaluation, it is then 24 rolled up. Let's take Mr. Morris here.
25 Mr. Morris, you rated him, and you provide NEAL R. GROSS COURT AEPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AMODE ISLAND AVENUE N W 202> 2344433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4433
1 your goll-up list to B, so that supervisors then take it
~
2 to Mr. Mashburn. Is that correct?
3 A We -- this roll-up, this item B, was done with 4 the manager.
5 Q Okay. Were you present at those --
6 A Yes. That is right. The supervisors and the 7 manager were present, and we had a human resources 8 representative in there to decide on that.
9 Q So you were present at those ranking meetings.
10 A Yes.
11 Q Do you know if other supervisors-from, let's 12 say, nuclear safety, if supervisors participated at those 13 meetings? Do you know?
14 A You mean, in their department?
15 Q Yes.
16 A No. I do not know.
17 Q Would you think that other departments would 18 do the same, the way you do it?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Is that the way it was explained to you? And 4
f 21 you are saying that you did participate in step B, 22 supervisors and managers, when you were rating the i
23 employees.
24 A That is right.
{
25 Q Now, if we go to C, to rank you, would you be
- NEAL R. GROSS COURT AEpoATERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE N W 5202, 234 4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 2344433 4
.- - - . .- . _ - . _ . - . - -. . - ...--- - n.-._...-
1
- 1 present at those meetings?
)
i 2 A No.
4 3 Q It would be the managers and higher? -1
)
l 4 A Managers and higher. !
1 i
So this process of the roll-up escalates this 1
- 5 Q 6 way. Right?
7 A That is right. Exactly.
i i 8 Q Now, back to B, on those meetings where you 9 and the manager were there, were there other supervisors
! 10 besides you?
11 A Oh, yes.
a i
- 12 Q And other managers?
13 A No. It was only manager and his direct i
, 14 reports, and we were ranking people who reported to us, to l
{ 15 the supervisors.
l 16 0 Okay. All right. In other words, name two l
17 other supervisors, counterpart.
j 18 A Joe Malara and Chris Forpal.
i j 19 Q Okay. Forpal and Malara. Were they there I
j 20 with you, and you had your manager, and you were
! 21 discussing --
a i I
22 A People who reported to us. Right.
I 23 Q Right, okay. Now I --
l 24 A That is right. Exactly, i
25 Q Does the grid on the right-hand side here on NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPOATE AS AND TRANSCAIDERS j 1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE N W l
- 6202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 {202) 234-4433 a . . . , . u . . .
1 the board that you are looking at, look familiar?
l 2 A Yes.
3 Q Is that the description of the upper tier, 4 middle tier, and lower tier?
5 A Right.
6 Q And that is how the numbers end up ranked. Is 7 that right?
8 A That is right.
1 9 Q Now, when you provided your manager, Mr.
10 Mashburn, and you decided that your Mr. Morris or Mr.
11 Phillips here on this -- I am using this name only for the 12 record as an example, based on this example in the 13 planning review guide.
14 And if Mr. Phillips was ranked a 9, you j 15 would -- when you would come out of that meeting, you 16 would know exactly who was ranked 9. Is that correct? Or 17 did you later -- or were you told later?
18 A I do not know if we knew exactly that that is 19 the way it is going to be. Basically what we did, we --
20 you know, like if I had nine people and Malara had twelve 21 people and Chris had eight people, we put all those 29 22 people on the list, and, you know, ranked them based on 23 that.
24 And the people who were in the bottom third, 25 We knew in that meeting that, okay, there are so many in NEAL R. GROSS COURT AEPORTERS AND T AANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W 202) 234 4433 W A$HINGTON O C 20005 (202) 2344433
1 this bottom third.
2 Q Out of 75, let's say --
3 A Yes.
4 Q -- eight were in the bottom third.
i 5 A Bottom third.
6 Q Okay.
4 7 A Now, exactly -- at that time, we really didn't 8 know who will eventually be in block 9, because this thing 9 was supposed to roll up again to a higher level, where -- ;
10 Q Which level is that, according to the board?
11 A That would be C.
12 Q C, so your manager -- !
13 A Took all these people --
14 Q -- took all these people and took the names 15 with -- of, let's say -- being more practical, how many in 16 your group?
17 A At that time --
18 Q Under your manager, how many?
19 A Total 30.
20 Q Thirty. Okay. He got together, Mr.
21 Management got together with another manager, 20 or 30, 22 and give me another manager's name.
23 A Tom Davie.
24 Q Okay. Davie and Mashburn got together and 25 maybe perhaps other managers. Are there other managers?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPOATEAS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W i202 2344433 WASHINGTON O C 20005 (202) 234-4433 w- - ~ - - - - , - . - ,- , - -- n=
1 A That is right.
2 Q And these other group of managers discussed !
4 3 what your group supervisors hinted: Turn it over to Mr.
4 Mashburn, and Mr. Davie and his supervisors turned it over 5 to him.
6 A Right.
5 7 Q And these managers got together to decide the 8 final ranking of this.
9 A That is right.
10 Q When were you told that Mr. -- again, as an 11 example for the record, Mr. Phillips was a 9?
12 A I don't remember when exactly I was told. I 13 think it was sometime in January that we knew for sure, 14 that this person is block 9. I i
15 Q Okay. How did Mr. Mashburn know how you rated i
16 each employee?
17 A We explained at that time --
18 Q Who is "we"?
19 A All the supervisors --
20 Q I am talking about your employees.
21 A Right.
22 Q How did he know about your employees?
23 A The way we did that is we took all these 24 people, and we listed them on the board, 1 through 30.
25 And then we put all the educational background, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W i202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON. O C 20005 (202) 2344433
I 1 experience, you know, kind of described each guy, what ;
- 2 they did, and then ranked them --
) 3 Q You had that for 30 people you had out on the 4 board? 4 5 A Out on the board. Right. i i ,
I j 6 Q Okay.
i 7 A And then ranked them based on performance and 8 potential.
9 Q Did you submit anything in writing?
I 10 A No.
11 Q Did you take any paperwork?
12 A No. Well, I had my paperwork, my ranking !
1 '
i 13 sheets that I had 14 Q Do you still have your ranking sheets?
t i 15 A I don't know. I may have in my file --
J i
s 16 Q In your personnel files, your personal files j i
17 that you keep on your employees? l i 18 A Right. I may have discarded them too, because 19 really, as I said, when it rolls up, it is not what I took
- i. l i
20 into the office. It really didn't matter much.
2 21 Q As a supervisor, do you discard things like 1
J 22 that?
l 23 A The -- normally not, but in this case I may i 24 have.
25 Q Were you instructed to?
NEAL R. GROSS
< COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202)2344433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4433
-gn ,- -,- - , , , - , , + - ,, -- -
1 A I do not know if there was a specific 2 instruction, b) I think that in the meeting there was a 3 discussion that any worksheets on the ranking should be 4 discarded.
5 Q When did this come about? What kind of --
6 A I don't recall.
7 Q Do you recall?
8 A No.
9 Q Do you think that other supervisors across on 10 the site have received the same instructions?
11 A I don't know. It was not, as I said, a 12 directive or anything like that; hey, discard all these 13 sheets. It was not like that; it was just a practice that 14 Entergy's supervisors may have followed.
15 Q Uh-huh. And you say if you look through your 16 own -- not what human resources has but through your own 17 personal files that you keep of your employees, you might 18 have that information.
19 A I may have.
20 Q Okay. So did you hand Mr. Mashburn any 21 document, anything? Did you hand him anything? Here is 22 my list.
23 A No.
24 Q So everything that you had, that was your 25' document, and you provided information and/or either you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W i202) 234 4433 W ASHINGTON D C 2000$ (202) 234 4433
1 1 wrote on the board or somebody did. Right? j l 2 A That is right. ]
3 Q What is your understanding that Mr. Mashburn i
4 did with that information? l l
5 A He took that information, based on what we had 6 as to which ones were one-thira, middle one-third, and top 7 one-third, and took that information to the level C and 8 discussed that. I do not know what happened in that 9 meeting. !
10 Q Were there any minutes taken during those -- i 11 A No.
12 Q Any record of anything like that?
13 A Not that I am aware of.
14 Q So Mr. Mashburn took whatever was on the l 15 board, and then he took that information.
i 16 A The human resources representative who was 17 there, he finally gave -- he made the notes and gave 18 Mashburn the final product.
19 Q Who was that? i 20 A Mike Peltier.
21 Q Okay. When that ranking came out, the final 22 product, number 9, who told you that Mr. Phillips was 23 ranked 9? j 24 A Mr. Mashburn.
f 25 Q And what did-Mr. Mashburn tell you? l NEAL R. GROSS COUAT AEPOATERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W i2026 234 4433 WASHINGTON O C 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 A Well he said that such and such guys are 2 ranked 9.
3 Q And?
4 A That is it.
5 Q Who was going to tell them?
6 A Oh, who was going'to tell the employee?
7 Q Yes. What happened -- just take me step by 8 step. What happened after that?
9 A Okay. That was right around the January time 10 frame, and then by end of January, we were supposed to 11 call the employee and in presence of a manager and inform 12 him of the ranking, and also offer him the separation 13 package. And we did that. And Mashburn called Benny i 14 Serrano, and Benny came into his office, and we told him 15 that based on the relative process and based on 16 performance and potential, you are ranked 9.
17 BY MR. BOAL:
18 Q Mr. Soni, when this item of the ranking 19 process or this phase of the ranking process was discussed 20 with you, was the need for confidentiality of the employee 1 21 being ranked 9 discussed with you also?
22 A Yes.
23 Q What we have heard and what we have seen as 24 has been provided to us is that since the process for 25 informing the employee was that on a certain day, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W 1202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4433
- 1. employee -- a certain employee would be called into the f 2 manager's office and explained that they were a 9, that ,
3 actually confidentiality was breached, because it wasn't 4 real hard to see who went into the manager's --
5 A Right. That is possible.
6 Q Was there any discussion of that with you and i 7 human resources or your manager, that maybe an extra step 8 would have been in order?
9 A We know, yes, we could have done better. Yes.
10 Q After the fact, but I guess we are trying to 11 look before.
12 A Yes. At that time, I mean, they were all just 13 done a certain time schedule, and we just called the 14 people that day and informed them who was 9.
15 Q But there was no discussion about protection 16 of the employees' ranking that could have been --
17 A I mean, it doesn't disturb that it is supposed 18 to be confidential, or it is confidential, and so far as 19 there was no list published; there was no announcements I
20 made; we didn't tell anybody. I mean, by the mere fact 21 that the guy was called to the office, if somebody infers 22 that he is block 9, that is possible.
23 But I was called in my manager's office that 24 day, too, so, I mean, if somebody infers I am block 9, 25 that is his prerogative.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT AEPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AMODE ISLAND AVENUE N W (202) 2344433 W ASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4433
1 Q It is his inference.
2 A That is an inference.
3 Q Right.
4 A Right.
5 BY MR. ARMENTA:
6 Q Mr. Soni, is it true that initially you 7 were -- you could tell your -- you were direct -- in other 8 words, you could tell your employees; is that true? That 9 some supervisors actually tell --
10 A Oh, yes.
11 Q Did you know of some supervisors that told 12 their employees --
13 A Right. Because initially the direction was 14 that you will be told what tier you are going to be in.
15 Q And then --
16 A And some supervisors knew exactly which tier 17 each guy was, so they did inform the people.
18 Q What caused it to change? l 1
I 19 A I don't know what caused it to change.
20 Maybe -- the reason it changed as I said: Probably there 21
/W was not much 44ss benefit in telling other people, you 22 know, what group they were in, other than defining the top 23 tier and the bottom.
24 Q Would you think that if people knew that there i i
25 were 7s and 8s, that would probably cause a decline in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AMODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W
.202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON O C 20005 (202) 2344433 l
- 1 morale, do you think?
I 2 A It probably could.
3 0 Okay. There was another question I was going >
4 to ask. '
5 Have you experienced, have you seen, have you 6 had people come to you or given you information; are you 1 0 7 aware of a chilling effect as a result of this ranking-1 1 8 process?
9 A What do you mean, " chilling effect"?
l I
i 10 Q Chilling effect that they may be timid, '
1 11 perhaps indirectly intimidated by the fact that they might 12 lose their jobs when you compete with your peers. There 1 13 is always a fear that we don't know where we stand, you
! )
14 know. They might come and tell me I am ranked a 9.
i I 15 Q I do not know -- I do not understand your .
16 question exactly, but the purpose of the ranking process 17 was to kind of give a wake-up call to people that if you 18 are not going to perform better than and if you don't 1
19 stand up against your peers, you have a potential to lose 20 jobs.
21 Q If you are ranked a 9, what is your
- 22 understanding that if you are ranked a 9 again, what is i
4 23 going to happen?
1 24 A You will be fired, let go. ;
25 Q Because you did not perform or improve your l
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
! j 1323 RMODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W WASHINGTON O C 20005 (202) 234-4433 j i202) 234 4433 l
= - - _
- 1 performance.
2 A That is right.
3 Q But is it true that if I am a 9 and I improve, 4 meet or exceed my goals, but then everybody above me goes 1
5 up a notch, and then it is not based on performance, is ;
6 it? I guess it is --
7 A It is based on performance relative to others.
8 Q But even if you exceed or meet your goals, you 9 could still be fired.
10 A That is right.
l 11 Q And you think it is fair? 1 12 A That is the way to survive. Otherwise 13 everybody has to stay home.
14 Q That is fine. I am just asking you, to see 15 what you think. That is fine.
16 A We are losing money here, so if we don't 17 improve, everybody stays home.
18 Q Do you think this is a way for EOI to 19 economize or downsize, economical reasons in your opinion?
20 A I think the bottom line is money, so, you 21 know --
22 MR. ARMENTA: I would like to make a request, 23 with the permission of Mr. Doug Levanway, attorney, GSU, 24 that you, Mr. Soni, Mr. Levanway, that you provide to us 25 whatever work sheets you have in your personnel file, so NEAL R. GROSS COURT AEPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W
' s202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4433
1 that we may evaluate them. I am sure -- we have done this 2 before; if you would go back to your desk -- I know there 3 is no guarantee. I am that you probably used a PC instead l l
4 of a typewriter. I have seen the PC in your office. ,
l 5 I think if you go back in your records and if 6 you search for that information, we would like to see l
l 7 whatever worksheets you have on your employees.
8 Mr. Levanway? ;
9 MR. LEVANWAY: Well, I am no sure in his case 10 to what purpose. I mean, he didn't rank anybody who is 11 the subject of the investigations. Just to open up all ;
12 his people --
13 MR. ARMENTA: Well, just for the sake of the 14 ranking process being uniform. If it is applied only to 15 nuclear safety, well, then I think we need to know, if it 16 is being applied in a different manner to nuclear safety, 17 which is what these investigations are going on, how else 18 will we know, if nuclear safety is being rated on a 1 19 different level, unless we take a look at other 20 departments?
l l
21 MR. LEVANWAY: Well, see if you have got l
2 22 anything; we will take a look at it.
23 MR. ARMENTA: And I an not saying that I don't 24 believe you, but the thing is that we need to confirm 25 that, to ensure --
3 NEAL R. GROSS COURT AEPORTERS AND TRANSCAtBERS
]
1323 AHODE ISL AND AVENUE. N W d
(202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 2344433
1 THE WITNESS: Right. As Z said, these sheets 2 were done at the time of ranking, and they were very 3 informal sheets, and basically you will see handwritten 4 names, and we ranked them, and that changed as it went 5 along.
6 MR. ARMENTA: All right. That is fine.
7 MR. LEVANWAY: Well, let's just say I will 8 take the request under consideration, and we will see what 9 he has, if anything, and I will give you our response to i I
10 that.
l 11 MR. ARMENTA: All right. That is fine.
12 I don't have any more questions. Dennis?
13 BY MR. BOAL:
14 Q Mr. Soni, you were explaining during the roll-15 up process, that when you went into that, there were 16 perhaps two of your employees who would have gone into the 17 block 9, but then you said that it didn't happen and only 18 one went in there. Could you explain to us how you were 19 swayed not to place the other person in block 9? What 20 occurred or what kind of dialogue?
)
21 A As part of the discussion, when you do the 1
22 ranking and when you do the roll-up, one of the things 23 that plays into part is what is the individual performed 24 not just within the group, as to his relationships and j 25 impression outside the group.
NEAL R. GROSS ;
COUAT REPOATERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W s202 234 4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4433
- - - -~ .. - , _ .- ._ -
1 And this particular individual that I was 2 talking about had an opportunity to work with another 3 supervisor, because his assignment was being changed from 4 me to him. So, you know, I supervised him for most of the 5 year, and last month or two, he worked for Mr. Joe Malara.
6 And Joe felt pretty strong that, Well, you know, I have 7 given him this; in last two months, he has done this, 8 this, and this, and, you know, he is doing -- relatively 9 he is doing good.
10 And then he was still in the bottom third i
11 based on what my recommendation was, but then ultimately, l
12 since we had the 10 percent criteria, he didn't cut it; he 13 didn't end up in block 9. There were other guys who were 14 worse than him who ended up in block 9.
15 Q But the basis for'the discussion that swayed 16 it was performance. Is that correct?
17 A Right. It was performance. That is true, 18 Q As viewed by another supervisor.
I 19 A That is right. Exactly.
20 Q Mr. Soni, the responses that you have provided 21 to us during this interview have been appreciated and 22 quite deta_ led and we do appreciate it. What we would 23 like to is'to ask you for your opinion, perhaps help us 24 with our quandary.
25 We have been told that the ranking process NEAL R. GROSS COUAT AEPORTERS AND TRANSCAIBE AS 1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W
.202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 2344433
1 appears to have singled out a group of individuals at 2 Riverbend Station who are known to be whistleblowers or 3 more aggressive in pursuing concerns, and we would like to 4 ask you if you can counter that.
l A That is not true at all. l 5
6 Q You do not believe that.
7 A I do not believe that at all.
8 Q Could you explain your answer?
9 A Basically because the whole process never had 10 any element of targeting any person. It was to look at 11 the individuals based on performance and potential by each 12 supervisor, and then it rolled up based on the process, 13 and there was no criteria about identification of problems l 14 or whistleblower activity type thing.
15 MR. BOAL: Thank you. Mr. Soni, has Jonathan 16 or I or any other NRC employee threatened you in any 17 manner or offered you a reward in return for this 18 statement?
19 THE WITNESS: No.
20 MR. BOAL: Have you provided this statement 21 freely and voluntarily?
22 THE WITNESS: Yes.
23 MR. BOAL: We have gone through the questions 24 we would like to ask you, but we would like to afford you 25 an opportunity at this time to add any statements or NEAL R. GROSS COUAT AEPORTERS AND T AANSCRIBERS 1323 AHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W 1202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON O C 20005 (202) 2344433
1 ingormation you feel may assist us in our investigations.
2 THE WITNESS: I think the questions that you 3 asked are quite detailed and provided, you know, anything 4 that I have to say.
5 MR. BOAL: Mr. Levanway?
6 MR. LEVANWAY: No. j 7 HR. BOAL: It is approximately 9:25 a.m., and 8 this interview is concluded. I 9
10 11 12 13 14 I
l 15 l
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 l
25 i
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 234 4433 i
_ _ _ . . . . .~___ _ _ _ . _ . . - _ . . . . _ _ _ ._ _ _. _ _ . - _ - _ _. _ _ . - . _ _ .__._ . _ _. _
i t This is to certify that the attached i i
proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory [
Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: ALLAN SINGH SONI Docket Number (s): --
Place of Proceeding: St. Francisville, LA j were held as herein appears, and that this is the original i
transcript-thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and thereafter .
reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the l court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
w NN Sandra McCray Official Reporter Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc.
f NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBER $
1323 AHODE (SLAND AVENUE. N W W ASHINGTON D C 20005 (202) 2344433 i2021 234 4433 I
=. - w. .e-.- - + , - -+m yv. e ---y -- -i q
l T h ' :. is to confirm that on this day, f-2/- iI' i
,I A LL 4 N S. SON I read this transcript dated 7 // V 7.s-
, consisting of (+ 7 pages and have initialed any corrections I have made.
l i <
W f
Additional changes or additions to my testimony regarding the following pages will be provided to the NRC under separate correspondence.
I I
l I
. )
l 1
i
O O
N t
4 4
EXHIBIT 86 f
I t
/
EXHIBIT 86
j i iI REPORT OF INTERVIEW WITH NORMAN EUGENE TISON, JR.
On October 26, 1995, TISON, Nuclear Environmental Technician First Class, Entergy Operations, Inc. (E01), River Bend Station (RBS), was interviewed by Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), Office of Investigations (01), Region IV (RIV), Investigators Jonathan Armenta, Jr. and Dennis Boal about allegations of discrimination for reporting safety concerns at RBS. TIS 0N provided the following information in substance:
TISON said he has been employed at RBS for 5 years as a nuclear environmental
- technician first class. TIS 0N said E01 has contracted out radiological laboratory work to a laboratory [NFI] in Little Rock, Arkansas. TISON said he continued to analyze a cross section of the Arkansas laboratory's work and found discrepancies with the laboratory's results. TIS 0N said he talked with his supervisor numerous times about his concern but the laboratory continued their work, and his analysis continued to find problems with the results.
TISON said he brought up his concerns in January 1995 and February 1995, and l in May 1995, he talked with Craig MAXSON, RBS Employee Concern Program l Representative. TISON said, in addition, he talked with Blair NICHOLAS, NRC:RIV, and Gilbert GUERRA, NRC:RIV, about his concerns with the Arkansas laboratory. TISON said E01 is downsizing and he [TISON] is raising an l unpopular issue about the laboratory. TISON said he has not been threatened, but he is apprehensive about the situation. TIS 0N said MAXSON assured him that no reprisals will be taken against him. ,
TISON said he assisted in an inspection of the Arkansas laboratory sometime in June 1995, and an RBS vendor audit was subsequently conducted by RBS. TISON said the RBS audit report was not well received, and TIS 0N said he has philosophical problems with the RBS audit report. TISON said Reg Guide 4.15 i was not being followed, and he did not know the source of resistance about the laboratory matter at RBS. TISON said he is disappointed as nothing it being done about the laboratory, and he considers the matter to be a political f ssue within the company.
TIS 0N said Roger BACKEN, RBS Supervisor, Nuclear Safety Department, was correct in saying he [TISON] was uncomfortable with the situation. TISON said RBS had a good program within tne on-site laboratory before E01 assumed operations, and he is not sure the change to the Arkansas laboratory "was worth it." TIS 0N said he is not happy with the environmental staffing at RBS and the decline in the experience level. TISON said the RBS laboratory personnel can perform the procedures, but they do not have the underlying knowledge about what they are doing. TIS 0N said he is not a great technician, and other RBS employees should have detected the problems he found with the Arkansas laboratory.
Case No. 4-95-016 Exhibit E
, 1 Page / of )_.
/khufV
1 .
TISON said he was not hesitant to use the RBS Employee Concern Program. TISON said he knew it was in place but preferred to address matters internally i
, before using the program. TISON said he was hesitant to use the program ,
because he preferred to do his work and leave it alone. l This report was prepared on November 8, 1995, from investigator's notes.
- i k
Dennis Boal, ' Investigator i
Office of Investigations Field Office, RIV i
3 l 4
d 1
n d
I l
1 d
Case No. 4-95-016 Exhibit fif 2 Page 3 of 3-
EXHIBIT 77 I
Ir. formation in this record was deleted g\\
i-eme wit Act,exemptio s geeem onnruiua txatsiT 77 i Lol&. }lQ f ~ ~