ML083190744
| ML083190744 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Kewaunee  |
| Issue date: | 10/22/2008 |
| From: | Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NRC-2475, TAC MD9409 | |
| Download: ML083190744 (55) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION Title: Kewaunee Power Station License Renewal Public Meeting: Evening Session Docket Number: 50-305 Location: Kewaunee, Wisconsin Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 Work Order No.: NRC-2475 Pages 1-*
NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 + + + + +
3 BEFORE THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 4 + + + + +
5 + + + + +
6 DOMINION ENERGY KEWAUNEE INC.
7 KEWAUNEE POWER STATION 8 Regarding the Renewal of Facility Operating License 9 WEDNESDAY 10 OCTOBER 22, 2008 11 7:00 P.M.
12 + + + + +
13 Town Hall of Carlton 14 N1296 Town Hall Road 15 Kewaunee, Wisconsin 54216 16 + + + + +
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 P R O C E E D I N G S NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 (7:00 P.M.)
2 MR. HOLIAN: Good evening. I'm Brian 3 Holian. I'm the division director for the Division of 4 License Renewal back in headquarters.
5 Still consider myself a regional type guy.
6 I just am back from nine years in Region One which is 7 outside of Philadelphia and I spent nine years in the 8 regional office as a manager and before that I had 9 been nine years at headquarters so I came back and am 10 now heading up the license renewal program there.
11 So it's a pleasure to be out here.
12 With me today is Sarah Lopas the 13 environmental project manager and we have a 14 presentation of just 20 slides and I'm going to check 15 and see really because the crowd is small.
16 I know we bring out a formal presentation 17 like this but we don't mean it to be if you don't need 18 that.
19 So, you know, we do that and pack up this 20 stuff and bring it out. Oftentimes we get larger 21 crowds of people who aren't aware of what license 22 renewal is about.
23 That's the purpose of tonight's meeting 24 really just to describe the license renewal process 25 and then the second part of the meeting is to take any NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1 environmental questions or comments you have.
2 We combine kind of two meetings into one 3 where we take any questions or concerns that you want 4 to address in the environmental review that will just 5 be starting now.
6 Let me just take a quick check with who we 7 had a crowd of maybe about 20 people this afternoon 8 and I see some familiar faces and I welcome you back.
9 I thank you for coming back to both sessions.
10 But who was not here this afternoon.
11 Okay.
12 So if it's okay with everybody we'll just 13 breeze right through those 20 slides. It should only 14 take 20 minutes or so and it's a repeat for some. But 15 it will be worthwhile and that's how we advertise the 16 meeting.
17 You know, I just wanted to before I start 18 the meeting mention a couple of things.
19 We do take these public meetings 20 seriously. In the back of the room we have slides and 21 if you get bored about these 20 minutes of these 22 slides there's plenty of reading material if you 23 haven't picked it up already back on the tables.
24 There's things from license renewal to 25 high level waste which I know is a good hot topic here NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 and a concern of a lot of people this afternoon so 2 we'll get right into high level waste casks.
3 And there's stuff on radiation protection.
4 How much dose does a member of the public get. If 5 you've heard about the tooth fairy project where 6 somebody is collecting baby teeth and analyzing it 7 for, you know, how much radiation people get.
8 There's a factor, a backgrounder on that 9 subject back there. There's a booklet on frequently 10 asked questions on license renewal. How you can be 11 more involved. So feel free to grab that even now or 12 at the end of the meeting and take it with you, take 13 one for your neighbor. That's what it's there for.
14 And then there's a single sheet of paper 15 in the back that, a franked envelope, our public 16 process. You know, the NRC is a public agency, public 17 safety agency, regulatory agency and we come out to 18 these meetings, you know, because we want it to be 19 useful to members of the public.
20 So if it's not that useful. The time of 21 the meeting is not right, the location is not right, 22 you don't get what you want out of the meeting put it 23 down there. If it's something positive or negative.
24 And we try to improve meetings as we go along.
25 Somebody collects those and grades us.
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5 1 Now with that I'd like to, you know, 2 introduce three other members of the NRC. I think all 3 three are here tonight again. They were here in the 4 afternoon session.
5 But first off we've got Kevin Barclay out 6 of Region Three a project engineer. And Kevin has 7 been with the Regional Three office for a couple years 8 and spends a lot of time up here at Kewaunee and Point 9 Beach.
10 And Vyktoria Mytling in the back. The 11 public affairs officer out of Region Three a good 12 contact for if you have any questions about the plant 13 in the neighborhood, anything going on from, 14 throughout the whole year, you know, Vyka can get you 15 the right person in the region or at headquarters for 16 an answer.
17 And we've got Harold, right. Harold is 18 back there. Harral Logaras. And Harral is kind of 19 new back to Region Three but he's been a FEMA employee 20 and he's worked on the industry side also and he's a 21 government liaison officer and so he can also point 22 you to the right contact and right issues in the state 23 or state contacts. That's part of his job to be an 24 interface between the NRC and the state.
25 And I know that one issue on, on taxes and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 the independent spent fuel is a good issue for Harold 2 to be up on. So Harral from the region. He's only 3 been there back about a month and he decided to come 4 out to this meeting and makes sure he meets the folks 5 around here. So we appreciate that.
6 Let's go right into the slide. We can go 7 from there.
8 Our purpose tonight is to provide an 9 overview of the license renewal process and describe 10 the environmental review process and show our 11 schedule.
12 Sarah will be covering all the 13 environmental parts.
14 And as I mentioned the main item here is 15 we have a set of things, like 90 things that we look 16 at for environmental reasons.
17 If there's other things that we're not 18 aware of you should bring those up. Something about 19 the lake. Something about a fish species. Something 20 about an animal species here that you think will be 21 impacted by license renewal you let us know about it.
22 Next slide. You know, just a little bit 23 about the NRC. If you're not aware of us, you know, I 24 know we come out here for public meetings once a year 25 at least to tell you how the plants in the area are NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 doing. They're annual assessment meetings.
2 Lot's of good information if you're, ever 3 see those advertised just with how well the plant and 4 how well the region thinks the plant's operating that 5 year. They'll give you inspection findings, what 6 they're finding in the field and a good summary.
7 So we're out there for that. But we take 8 ourselves from the license renewal process back to the 9 Atomic Energy Act of 1954. And back then they 10 licensed the plants for 40 years. You know why 40 11 years, who was here this, this afternoon, economic 12 antitrust reasons. Really what, didn't have to do 13 with a guess of the technical length of the plant or 14 anything like that. It was mainly antitrust and all 15 kind of major power plants that were licensed by a 16 federal agency were given a 40 year life time.
17 In effect plants replace almost everything 18 at the plant, you know, even in 30 years now. Some of 19 the, pressurized water reactors are replaced, the big 20 steam generators that haven't even been envisioned 21 replacing when they originally built these plants.
22 So they replace a lot of equipment in 23 there. So it's important as you look at license 24 renewal we're not doing a new license for the plant.
25 We're renewing the existing license. And so you'll NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 1 hear me talk about that.
2 The difference being there we don't review 3 whether it should be sited in the City of Kewaunee or 4 outside the City of Kewaunee again. We don't look at 5 siting. We don't look at emergency planning. I'll 6 cover that in another slide here.
7 So that's some of the stuff we don't do 8 and it's actually written into the license renewal 9 rule that was, you know, Congress had us look at.
10 The Atomic Energy Act was smart enough 11 though back there to say license renewal is a 12 possibility, you know, NRC you'll have to come up with 13 a license renewal process.
14 But back in `54 they said all right 40 15 years and then we'll look at a license renewal and how 16 much to extend these plants like 20 years.
17 You know, we're here talking, we're about 18 half way through the plants in the whole, across the 19 United States. We're at about 48 plants out of 104 20 that have been renewed. We just did one up in New 21 York a month ago and signed off on their license.
22 And they're already talking about another 23 20 years. I don't know if you heard about that. But 24 it comes up about life after 60 and meaning they're 25 already starting the research.
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9 1 It's not us. We don't do too much of it.
2 It's the Department of Energy. And I covered that a 3 little bit this afternoon.
4 You know, the NRC is a safety regulator 5 and Department of Energy is a promoter of, maybe we 6 should have a mix of nuclear, coal and gas. That's a 7 separate government agency a lot bigger than the NRC.
8 But the NRC is an independent regulator.
9 It just looks at the safety of the operation.
10 The other item that Sarah will talk about 11 more in the other governing statute is the NEPA, 12 National Environmental Policy Act and NEPA came out in 13 1969 and really it's kind of an educational as I view 14 it regulation that requires us for any significant 15 action to do an environment impact statement.
16 And the commission after that came out 17 that regulation came out demanded that for every 18 license renewal the NRC would do an environmental 19 impact statement.
20 And so that's one of the documents we're 21 gathering information on, starting this process as a 22 matter of fact Monday and Tuesday we had three of our 23 staff out on Lake Michigan looking at the intake 24 structure, you know, comparing it to other structures 25 we've looked at before asking the state about what NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 1 they've seen on impacts from the current plant, you 2 know, the current years of operation of the plant.
3 And walking down some of the land use and 4 issues like that around the plant. So we've already 5 started our review according to NEPA.
6 Next slide please. Once again the NRC 7 commission and I've talked a little bit about this but 8 to protect the public health and safety, you know, and 9 the main issue I want to point up here is our job, 10 Sarah and our job, is to make sure that we look at the 11 aging effects of the plant from 40 years plus one day 12 out to 60 years. That's what their application came 13 in for.
14 Kewaunee came in and said we want a 20 15 year extension. So we'll look at the safety aspects 16 of that.
17 And an important aspect though is that the 18 safety of the plant is really done by the regional 19 people. The regional inspectors. Some headquarters 20 inspectors that go out. There are plenty, the 21 regional folks out of Chicago that, and the resident 22 inspectors who live outside the plant and go in day to 23 day.
24 And you've got two residents there Steve 25 and Pat. And they write reports up every quarter.
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11 1 Those are published on the web site. They come to 2 talk about those at meetings.
3 So you need to know you have that 4 availability of those people living in the community 5 that go to the plant and have unfettered access to 6 anything they want to look at.
7 So that's the good part. Safety of the 8 plant is maintained by, you know, what we do on a day 9 to day basis through the NRC. And when you look at 10 the logic for that, well, when it's okay to operate 40 11 years plus one day it's about the same plan.
12 You know, the big question we have to 13 figure out, is it okay for a full 20 years on aging of 14 the plant. We'll talk about that.
15 Next slide. Well, they came in the 16 original 40 years is due to expire in 2013, that's not 17 too far away when you really look at it.
18 They're one of the older plants. Not, you 19 know, not as old. Our first plant that expires in 40 20 years is on the east coast in New Jersey and that 21 expires in April of next year.
22 And it's Oyster Creek. They don't have 23 their license extended yet believe it or not. We're 24 done with our review but it's up at the commission 25 level and there was a hearing involved in that.
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12 1 Some of the local communities and it's up 2 before Atomic Safety and License Board panel right 3 now. It's been there for four or five months. So 4 they had that extended onto their review. And we're 5 waiting to, results of that.
6 They're required to come in at least five 7 years before expiration of their license to give the 8 NRC and the state really and other organizations a 9 chance to weigh in on the safety of the plant. And so 10 they filed in timely renewal in 2008.
11 Next slide. The license renewal 12 application, you know, it's at the local library if 13 you want to look at it there. It is online. It's 14 awful big. The four binders are back there on the 15 table for their license renewal application.
16 It includes a lot of information. A lot 17 of it we know about already about how the plant 18 operates. You know, the plant systems we go out and 19 inspect left and right.
20 But they're required to put in specifics 21 about how it's aged. How they're aging. Do they have 22 a program in place to check cable aging, you know, 23 electrical cabling. Will they monitor it, test it 24 frequently enough to pick up any degradation.
25 We concentrate in license renewal not on NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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13 1 the active components, not on the pumps. We expect 2 them to be monitoring the pumps and replace those on a 3 frequency and their normal maintenance rule kind of 4 takes care of that, another rule that they have to 5 operate by.
6 But we look at structures. We look at the 7 concrete structures. We look at the reactor vessel 8 itself. That's a significant part of your review.
9 And we look to make sure that they have efforts in 10 place and programs in place to manage aging.
11 There's some change to the plant tech, 12 technical specifications. Those are the things they 13 operate day to day, the people in the control room.
14 If you have a one train down you can only operate 15 seven days unless you get that train, meaning a pump 16 and a valve and a system for injecting water back up.
17 Sometimes they'll do some small technical 18 specification changes as part of license renewal.
19 And then finally they'll even have to 20 submit their own part of their environmental report.
21 The licensee themselves looks at the environment and 22 how they're impacting it and we take a look at that.
23 And as I mentioned earlier get some 24 independent information from the states and counties 25 and other organizations.
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14 1 Next slide. You know, as I mentioned it's 2 a two phased review that goes on. Really we have a 3 safety review. It's separate reviewers and a separate 4 branch at Sarah's end on environmental reviewing or 5 has been associated with the environmental review.
6 On the safety there it is. We make sure 7 we look at the aging effects and we do that a couple 8 ways. We do it from our headquarters reviewers and we 9 also do it kind of we evolved into bringing some early 10 reviewers out to the site and they'll come out for an 11 audit.
12 We found out that's a better way to look 13 at some of the documentation that the licensee 14 references. You know, make sure if they tell us they 15 have a program in place we want to set our eyes on and 16 the documentation and what it does.
17 So we'll start those audits, you know, 18 here shortly.
19 Environmental review is very similar.
20 They contact a lot of other federal organizations do 21 you know any reason why environmentally there's some 22 issue you've had with the plant or the licensee or 23 the, just the Lake Michigan area here. What should we 24 be aware of. Sarah will cover more on that.
25 Next slide. You know, what don't we do.
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15 1 I'll just quickly cover that because this gets a lot 2 of attention and the NRC gets criticized for not doing 3 a review of these areas.
4 So I, we lay that right out for you. The 5 license renewal process does not re look at emergency 6 planning, security or current, kind of current safety 7 performance.
8 You know, we don't take into account hey 9 they had two yellow findings and one white finding 10 over the last three years. You know, maybe they don't 11 deserve to operate another 20 years.
12 We don't look at it that way.
13 If they get enough red findings and 14 unacceptable performance that action may trick safety 15 matrix, shuts them down as a result of that poor 16 performance. So that can happen at age 30 of the 17 plant.
18 We don't look at that. And we don't look 19 at it because there's other NRC processes that look at 20 that.
21 Emergency planning. A lot of folks, some 22 folks have taken us to court on that right now. NRC 23 you should re look at emergency planning. You know, 24 things change.
25 Well, that rule 5047, you know, tells the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 1 licensee every ten years when there's a new census you 2 analyze the impacts of the population and, you know, 3 can you evacuate still, can you shelter in place, can 4 you effectively inform the population.
5 Security. Our security requirements post 6 9/11 they got a lot of attention and a lot of people 7 say and still say today when you go re licensing re 8 look at their entire security posture of the plant.
9 We don't think that's necessary. And a 10 good example is after 9/11, you know, we had the 11 potential for airplane impacts on a plant and you had 12 a potential for, you know, what we looked at was our 13 current design basis threat, how many people might 14 attack a plant.
15 And the NRC looked hard at that after 9/11 16 and saw, you know, what can we strengthen.
17 They did. They put more, they forced the 18 licensees to put more guards in place, more, you know, 19 they called it guards, guns and everything and 20 training and made them strengthen the perimeter 21 boundaries. And so you saw some of that now. It's, 22 you know, looking a little more fortified and is more 23 fortified. So they were ordered to put that in place.
24 We didn't wait for license renewal and say 25 if you want another license do it. The NRC figured NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 1 hey in this time and age things have changed, you 2 know, we should strengthen that now, enforce them to 3 do that now.
4 So that's some of why we don't tie that 5 into a license renewal review.
6 Next slide. This is really I won't spend 7 time on this. It just talks again about the safety 8 review up top. At the same time you're doing an 9 environmental two different groups looking at it.
10 We do get an independent review by our 11 advisory committee on reactor safeguards. It's a 12 panel of individuals. Some from industry. Some from 13 national labs. Some from academia who review the 14 application, review what exceptions they're taking to 15 our generic documents on license renewal. We've 16 learned a lot.
17 And they call the licensee in for a 18 meeting and then they call the NRC staff in for the 19 same meeting and they question both of us. And do an 20 independent review of license renewal.
21 And then finally it goes to a decision.
22 You try to get all this done in 22 months. It's 23 several thousand hours of review effort to make sure 24 that kind of each of the systems has an aging 25 management system.
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18 1 And it can be delayed by up to five or six 2 months. I mentioned one if it goes to a hearing 3 process and you get the courts involved.
4 Next slide. You know, we talk about on 5 this slide just two guiding principles. I've kind of 6 mentioned them already but that the current ongoing 7 processes are adequate for safety and that the main 8 aspect that we do on license renewal is aging 9 management reviews.
10 I'll go onto the next slide.
11 Now here I just wanted to stress again 12 kind of how we got through our review. We will have 13 teams back at the NRC. I've got several technical 14 divisions, division license renewal that I'm the 15 director for has our own experts in materials, has our 16 own experts in electrical instrument and controls.
17 We'll look at aspects of the review. We 18 will contract some out to the national labs to do 19 independent checks on items like this.
20 We look at metal fatigue. How many heat 21 ups and cool downs can a pipe take over a 60 year 22 period and has the licensee actually, you know, 23 analyzed how many they've had in the first 30 years of 24 operation and will they be bounded by that.
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19 1 mentioned the onsite audits. We will issue a safety 2 evaluation report. That will be 600 pages.
3 That's one thing I didn't mention in the 4 afternoon. I'm trying to make that more readable. I 5 think it's, you know, it's a big document and it's got 6 a lot of information in it. A lot of it's repeated 7 from the licensee's application.
8 So I'm trying to shorten that up. I don't 9 think it needs to be such a long evaluation.
10 As a matter of fact in the press, I didn't 11 mention it this afternoon, but we actually got 12 criticized by our office of inspector general last 13 year. It was 2007 for not making those documents a 14 little more readable to the members of the public.
15 One they criticized us for putting too 16 much information in it from the licensee's application 17 and then not backing up our statements with enough 18 indepth.
19 So we've done some, you know, improvements 20 to how much and how much we include in there and to 21 what depth of material. But I wanted to mention that 22 as an ongoing criticism of even how we do our reviews.
23 But it's good from the public to know that 24 there's an independent, independent people looking 25 over our shoulders.
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20 1 What's also important here is the regional 2 inspections. Not only do my people go out for site 3 audit, which we found very worthwhile, but the region 4 sends their own inspection team out. And they'll walk 5 down a system and say licensee how come you didn't 6 include this tank in the charging system in the scope 7 of license renewal.
8 And the licensee will have to answer that 9 and make sure that they've scoped in the right amount 10 of equipment. Did they include everything that they 11 should in the management of the plant.
12 What's also important here is that they'll 13 come back. This plant is going through the process, 14 you know, within five or so years of when their period 15 expires.
16 We've had some plants already get their 17 license renewed and they've only been 25 years into 18 the process. So their first 40 year period doesn't 19 end for 15 more years.
20 And I went, you know, to one of the 21 meetings and a guy said hey the licensee has a 22 commitment in here in 2022, you know, to have this 23 program in place, you know, who's going to look at 24 that then.
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21 1 know, it might not be this individual or me but we'll 2 be there and they're documented in there.
3 And the region will send out an inspection 4 team again in that last year prior to them going in to 5 the license renewal period to verify that the 6 commitments are met.
7 I mentioned the ACRS.
8 Next slide. Well, here's where we get 9 into the environmental side and I'll let Sarah take 10 over and quickly go through the environmental aspects.
11 MS. LOPAS: Hi. I'm Sarah Lopas. I'm the 12 Environmental Project Manager for the Kewaunee license 13 renewal.
14 As Brian touched on earlier, the review, 15 our environmental review is performed in accordance 16 with the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 17 which is called NEPA for short.
18 NEPA provides the basic architecture for 19 federal environmental review requirements. It 20 requires that all federal agencies follow a systematic 21 approach in evaluating the environmental impacts 22 associated with the major federal actions and 23 alternatives for those actions.
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22 1 here tonight.
2 NEPA also established the US Council on 3 environmental quality, the CEQ which is an office 4 within the executive office of the president.
5 The CEQ establishes policy implementation 6 of NEPA.
7 The NRC's environmental regulations which 8 are in 10 CFR Part 51 are largely based on those 9 regulations that CEQ developed.
10 Our environmental reviews consider the 11 impacts of license renewal and any litigation for 12 those impacts that we consider to be significant. We 13 also consider the impacts of alternatives to license 14 renewal, including the impacts of not issuing a 15 renewed license.
16 The staff documents its environmental 17 review in an environmental impact statement which we 18 call EIS for short.
19 Next slide. For license renewal the NRC 20 looked at a wide range of environmental impacts. In 21 conducting our review we'll reach out to various 22 federal, state and local agencies.
23 For example the US Fish and Wildlife --
24 MR. HOLIAN: She's got her Lavelier muted.
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23 1 talk to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. The 2 Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources will be 3 important.
4 We also --
5 MR. HOLIAN: Could you push the button on 6 that.
7 MS. LOPAS: Oh, yeah.
8 MR. HOLIAN: Just makes it --
9 MS. LOPAS: Good thing I'm loud enough --
10 MR. HOLIAN: You're loud enough. We don't 11 need these sound systems.
12 MS. LOPAS: Oh, look at that.
13 MR. HOLIAN: We wouldn't, we wouldn't have 14 brought these out these tonight but we actually do do 15 court reporting to, you know, to make sure that we 16 capture any comments on environmental issues and that 17 and they get transcribed and it actually goes into the 18 record. That's why the recording system and 19 everything.
20 MS. LOPAS: But otherwise I'm just loud.
21 Today at the early afternoon meeting there 22 was actually a woman from the Costal Zone Management 23 Agency here for Wisconsin. That's one part of what 24 the plant has to go through in order to get their 25 license renewal.
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24 1 Next slide. So the environmental review 2 process begins with the scoping process. The purpose 3 of the scoping process is to identify significant 4 issues that should be considered in the environmental 5 review.
6 We are now gathering information that we 7 will use to prepare our environmental impact 8 statement.
9 As part of that process we're here to 10 collect your comments on the environmental scope of 11 the review and that is what, you know, important 12 environmental issues you think that we should look at, 13 the NRC should look at for this license renewal 14 review.
15 The staff has developed in 1996 which 16 we're currently updating right now, a generic 17 environmental impact statement that addressed a number 18 of issues that were common to all nuclear power 19 plants.
20 The staff is supplementing that generic 21 environmental impact statement with a site specific 22 impact statement for Kewaunee.
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25 1 that we reached in the generic EIS to determine if 2 there are any, if there's any new and significant 3 information that would change the conclusions of that 4 generic environmental impact statement.
5 Next slide. The scoping period started on 6 October 9th, 2008 obviously. That's when we published 7 a notice of intent and, intent to prepare an EIS and 8 conduct scoping. And that was published in the 9 federal register.
10 The NRC will be accepting comments on the 11 scope of the environmental review until December 9th, 12 2008.
13 In general we're looking for information 14 about the environmental impacts from continued 15 operation of Kewaunee. You can assist us in this 16 process by telling us for example what aspects of your 17 local community that we should focus on. What local 18 environmental, social and economic issues the NRC 19 should focus on as well as what are some reasonable 20 alternatives to license renewal that are appropriate 21 for this particular region.
22 These are just some of the kinds of 23 examples that we're looking for as far as input. And 24 they represent the kind of information that we're 25 seeing through this environmental scoping process.
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26 1 So any comments that you have tonight 2 would be helpful in that.
3 Next slide. This slide illustrates the 4 commission's various considerations for deciding if a 5 renewed operating license will be issued.
6 So how do we use your input? Tonight the 7 public comments they are an important part of our 8 environmental review and all the comments that we 9 receive from you we'll take a look at. They'll be 10 included in our review.
11 Next slide. To that end there are a few 12 ways that you can submit comments. You know, you can 13 speak tonight and it will be on the record. And you 14 can also write us a letter and send it to this 15 address.
16 And if you just reference Kewaunee license 17 renewal it will get to myself or John Daley, the 18 safety project manager. And you can also e-mail at 19 Kewaunee.eis@nrc.gov. You can also e-mail me, call 20 me, I mean any way that your comments come in - they 21 do get incorporated.
22 I also have received some written comments 23 tonight and those, you know, will come in as well.
24 And once again the due date for those 25 comments is December 9th, 2008.
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27 1 Next slide. This slide is the milestone 2 slides for the environmental or milestone dates for 3 the environmental review.
4 Obviously the highlighted dates so the 5 hearing opportunity closes on December 1st and that's 6 different than the scoping. You know, that's for 7 contention for a hearing to oppose the license 8 renewal.
9 The environmental scope being comments 10 period closes about a week later or so. So those are 11 the two important dates as far as public participation 12 that are good to know.
13 We are going to be issuing a draft EIS, a 14 draft environmental impact statement in August of 15 2009.
16 Next slide. This is just the license 17 renewal contacts. John Daily couldn't be here tonight 18 but he is the safety point of contact.
19 And then obviously myself. I'm the 20 environmental point of contact. But if you call 21 either one of us, you know, we sit right next to each 22 other so not a big deal.
23 The Kewaunee Public Library has agreed to 24 keep the application on hand for us. As well as when 25 we start publishing the draft EIS we'll have a copy of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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28 1 that on hand as well.
2 I believe we have to send them a copy of 3 our SCR too so they'll have that on hand for the 4 entire length of the license renewal project. So for 5 about two years.
6 And in addition to that it's probably 7 easiest just to go online if you have access to that.
8 The license renewal web page will have, also has, you 9 know, PDF of the application and when we publish the 10 draft EIS.
11 And that's all I have to say. So we can 12 move onto comments and questions now.
13 MR. HOLIAN: Well, we had a sign up list 14 for questions and comments. We had a sign up list in 15 the back and I know some individuals spoke this 16 afternoon. But feel free it's a little bit of a 17 difference audience and to repeat your comments or 18 questions as you have.
19 I don't have a list but if anybody has a 20 comment I will ask you to use the mike and identify 21 yourself and comment or question.
22 And feel free to bring up again, you know 23 the ISF, independent spent fuel was an issue that came 24 up earlier so I'll bring it up if you don't. Yes, 25 sir.
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29 1 MR. HARDTKE: Okay. My name is Dave 2 Hardtke. I have a question on the financial 3 environmental issue with this plant.
4 If they are allowed to continue to operate 5 we are sitting on a growing pile of nuclear waste.
6 And when this plant shuts down, and it's going to shut 7 down someday, I have kids and grandchildren in the 8 area, who is going to make up the financial loss to 9 the town when this plant shuts down because we will 10 not be getting any money from the utility tax at that 11 point.
12 And we are sitting on a pile of growing 13 waste out here and some day our kids are going to have 14 to pay the price for it.
15 So I am against the, the license renewal 16 right now.
17 MR. HOLIAN: Okay. Let's just, let's 18 address that. And that was probably the prime issue 19 that came out in the afternoon session also was the 20 issue of the, of high level waste and that issue.
21 It's two parts to that question. You 22 know, one is and I compared it this afternoon to just 23 the high level waste sitting here. I mean that's 24 enough to bother some people is just currently, high 25 level waste sitting in casks here and the failure of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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30 1 the federal government to move that waste off.
2 We covered that in detail this afternoon 3 and I'll cover it a little bit more here and there are 4 some great documents on the background of that back on 5 the table. So really grab one on the way out.
6 The federal government did state when they 7 started originally building nuclear power plants that 8 they would take that waste and, and move it off 9 somewhere.
10 Now originally back then a lot of people 11 don't realize they were going to reprocess that waste.
12 The waste that is sitting in those casks there is 13 very valuable economically. It's got a lot of 14 resources.
15 And in the 70's the United States went 16 away from, of reprocessing where we would build a 17 plant somewhere and reprocess that and make more 18 nuclear fuel and I don't know all the percentages but 19 you can take, you know, 90 percent of that fuel and 20 use it again and get it down to an amount that is, is 21 much more manageable for storing away eventually.
22 You'll always have some high level waste 23 that you'll have to store away somewhere but they can 24 take a good 90 percent of it and reuse it again.
25 Other countries do that. Japan does it.
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31 1 France does it and they do it for other countries and 2 they do it economically although it's a lot of, a big 3 up front cost that the U.S. didn't want to face in the 4 70's.
5 So but I mention that because all of a 6 sudden that's coming back again just in the last year 7 or so or two years and GEP, I forget what it stands 8 for here, but, you know, the current administration 9 said we look at that.
10 They didn't tell us to do that. That's 11 the Department of Energy. So once again another 12 government agency will look at is it feasible now with 13 the economics to re look at using that waste.
14 You know, what would that do. That might 15 minimize the amount that might go into Yucca Mountain 16 if Yucca Mountain is the final resting place.
17 And it also might help fuel costs and 18 uranium costs. I mean people worry some, that uranium 19 is a fixed amount out there.
20 So the first issue I just wanted to 21 quickly, kind of quickly cover was just it's sitting 22 there bothers some people.
23 From the NRC perspective, you know, we 24 don't, we don't get a voice in hey we'd rather have it 25 shipped off to another place. They don't ask us and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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32 1 we don't get to state our preference on it.
2 We do get to do a review of both avenues 3 as I'll call it.
4 Just this year the Department of Energy 5 finally gave the NRC their application for the high 6 level waste repository at Yucca Mountain. It took 7 them 15 years longer. I don't know the exact number 8 of years then it was meant to for them to study that 9 mile long tunnel in the mountain that they made.
10 And it just took them too much longer. I 11 don't know who blame. But some of their funding was 12 cut at different years. But either way the 13 application just came in just a month or so ago the 14 NRC looked at it after 90 days and said alright it 15 looks like there's enough information in there for us 16 to start a several year review on whether it's 17 acceptable to go.
18 So you're right. It's delayed and it's 19 delayed now until 2018, 19, 20 before, if it's 20 approved. If it's approved waste will start going 21 there.
22 So that's one issue is Yucca Mountain.
23 NRC will license that if that's the place.
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33 1 keep in their spent fuel pool over the years. We 2 watch them as they put in applications for us and they 3 put more waste in there and they put it closer 4 together and they re racked as they called it.
5 And we made sure that the water systems 6 and the cooling systems were adequate for that. So 7 those were reviews that we did to make sure they're 8 safe.
9 After 9/11 we did some additional reviews 10 independently with research to make sure the security 11 of even the spent fuel pools there were still safe.
12 And then the casks that they, some of the 13 plants went to starting, you know, a good ten years 14 ago they realized hey we can't re rack, there were 15 some other methods to go. They could put more poison 16 in the water or some other ways but they thought the 17 fuel that's been in there, you know, for a long, 18 several years greater than five years, can be cooled 19 just by convection air currents in a concrete cask.
20 And it's well known so they designed a 21 cask. The cask vendors came in. The NRC did a year 22 or two review of the cask vendors. Went out and 23 looked where they were built, how thick the concrete 24 was, what kind of stainless steel canister they'd 25 need. You know, how many fuel assemblies to put in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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34 1 there, how to make sure you'd get convection cooling, 2 you know, just air cooling out on the pad.
3 And we actually put those into the 4 regulations, those casks that were approved.
5 So the NRC said, you know, we'll go two 6 ways ourselves, you know, the spent fuel in the pool 7 has always been a method for safe handling of 8 radioactive fuel. The casks for the older fuel is 9 still safe and we looked at that and they've been in 10 casks now for ten years or so. A lot of operating 11 experience with casks.
12 And both those are deemed safe by the NRC.
13 Yucca Mountain we know there's a lot of 14 political pressure. It makes sense to not keep waste 15 in every state or, you know, there are 30 some states 16 that have nuclear power plants, get it to some central 17 repository.
18 The NRC doesn't have a stake in that. We 19 don't get a voice in that. We don't get to say hey 20 let's pick Utah and there's a lot of empty land there 21 and just store a lot of these casks right now and put 22 them on one location.
23 We don't get a choice to choose that.
24 Congress is looking at that a little bit themselves.
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35 1 along. Even if Yucca Mountain gets delayed whether 2 there's another central repository somewhere that they 3 can move them to.
4 But the NRC position, you know, we do 5 review it whether they're safe there. We do inspect 6 it.
7 Now the second part of your question, I 8 mean our inspectors go out there and make sure the 9 temperatures are fine. Whether it snows outside, make 10 sure snow is not blocking the ventilation ducts or 11 that or the ventilation holes and, you know, it's 12 fine. Radiation doses are measured. They're within 13 the security boundary of the site or they have to 14 build a separate one.
15 So security and safety of the casks are 16 evaluated by the NRC.
17 You know, the second question about the 18 fairness, you know, it, it's true that the public 19 didn't sign on to have spent fuel in additional to the 20 plant sitting there.
21 And there was a plant and somebody came up 22 to me after the afternoon meeting who had worked at 23 that plant, it's in Maine that's one of them that I've 24 visited out in my regional job, where right now the 25 plant decommissioned.
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36 1 So the plant did go away. And it's a 2 green field now. The buildings are gone. Everything 3 is gone except they do have the independent spent fuel 4 casks still sitting there with a security fence around 5 it with some security officers there 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> a day.
6 And still have procedures to call the local law 7 enforcement if they need anything. And it will be 8 there until Yucca Mountain or a central repository is 9 decided.
10 Congress has stated that they are going in 11 that direction. They don't want it in individual 12 states. The individual state senators and congressmen 13 when we talk to them or they come in and talk to us or 14 come to our public meetings they're usually universal 15 for at some point we'll get there.
16 That's a long answer to your question. I 17 know it's unsettling. It's not meant to be there for 18 your kids kids, you know, it might definitely be there 19 for your kids now for a good part of their lives as 20 the government as a whole has delayed on that.
21 So safety wise though that's the NRC's job 22 is to make sure that it's safe sitting there. And we 23 do that. We inspect those. And I mentioned this 24 afternoon even the transportation of some of those 25 casks we're even looking forward to that.
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37 1 There was a tunnel fire in Baltimore and 2 we know that's on the proposed route or any cask to go 3 through a tunnel and there was a horrific tunnel fire 4 five or six years ago and we analyzed the temperatures 5 inside that tunnel from that tanker that had exploded 6 and wanted to make sure that the cask design could 7 survive something like that.
8 So we're still doing research about when 9 the time comes for that.
10 That's one piece in on it. The other 11 piece didn't come up but somebody might raise it.
12 This afternoon session the issue came up with locally 13 here at Kewaunee an issue and a complaint about really 14 the tax base for that.
15 That you're probably well more versed in 16 it and someone can add on to it here from the audience 17 I know spoke to it today.
18 But it was an issue once again that the 19 NRC doesn't have a say in, you know, how your taxes 20 either get collected or assessed for the ISFSI the 21 independent spent fuel storage installation and how 22 that money gets sent to the state and maybe doesn't 23 make its way back to the town or county seat here.
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38 1 much about that. That's really a state issue.
2 And I know states do it differently. It's 3 a, and I've learned in between these two meetings it's 4 even been done differently here on the history of the 5 plant here amongst the state.
6 And I know at other plants a larger 7 portion of that does go to the local communities.
8 And, you know, so I can't answer that as 9 well but I know that it's an issue that comes up and 10 it rightly should come up in these forums during 11 license renewal because it's an issue on your mind and 12 it's an unfairness issue.
13 So it's good to hear it. You know, your 14 state representatives if it's on the record here you 15 can point to that and say we brought it up here in 16 these meetings and kind of try to leverage that for 17 your state economic issues.
18 But from an NRC perspective, you know, 19 that's not a concern of ours.
20 Even going through this license renewal 21 process sometimes we'll get through it and the state 22 will have a voice in whether the plant gets re 23 licensed. A lot of times they'll have water usage 24 permits.
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39 1 the approval out in New York and they, on one of the 2 lakes up there they wanted to make sure that the, you 3 know, the intake structure and all that wasn't harming 4 certain fish habitats and that and so the state 5 themselves have a lot of management issues.
6 So usually those work themselves out 7 through the process even ongoing at 40 year plants and 8 states will assess that.
9 But, you know, the NRC is not the final 10 say on whether this plant keeps operating for out 60 11 years. We'll do the safety review of that and a lot 12 of times it's up one to the utility, is it still 13 economic to go nuclear. That's their own decision.
14 And then even the states will get a piece 15 in on a lot of the water management usages of that.
16 A long answer but let me go to him and 17 then back to you. That's fine.
18 Oh you want, you got the mike. Go ahead.
19 MR. HARDTKE: Could I just finish --
20 MR. HOLIAN: Oh, sure.
21 MR. HARDTKE: -- a comment on yours?
22 MR. HOLIAN: Yes.
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40 1 of those rods yet. They belong to Dominion.
2 MR. HOLIAN: Oh, right.
3 MR. HARDTKE: And so we're stuck with them.
4 So who do we talk to. Dominion says they, they 5 aren't going to settle anything with us. You said you 6 aren't in control. The DOE says they aren't in 7 control but now whose taking responsibility for them?
8 MR. HOLIAN: Well, the federal government, 9 you know, I say me because the NRC they have sued DOE.
10 So DOE they've actually sued the government, 11 utilities have to recoup costs.
12 And it's your costs they're trying to get 13 back. And somebody described that today. So NRC is 14 not in on the financial side. So that's all I mean.
15 DOE is someone good to get at. Yeah, 16 you're right. The rods aren't DOE's yet. But they've 17 been held or they settled. I won't say how that's 18 come out. But in court they've settled with utility 19 companies who have sued them.
20 And so you're aware of some of the 21 background. So they have had to pay out settlements 22 for the fact of being late for taking that fuel out of 23 here.
24 I don't think it's, but that money hasn't 25 gotten to you. I know.
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41 1 MR. HARDTKE: I know.
2 MR. HOLIAN: Yeah. So that's the issue 3 here is that the money hasn't gotten to you and we had 4 a state rep here this afternoon talking about that, 5 that, you know, that part of that gets into the state 6 politics of it.
7 You know, the settlement goes to them and, 8 you know, how that's distributed from the state is an 9 issue there.
10 Go ahead, sir.
11 MR. CARROLE: Well, I've got the CRS report 12 here. And it's an updated one for October 9th. And 13 Yucca Mountain might be ready by the year 2020.
14 It says might be. But it also says that 15 every, every nuclear plant is getting reimbursed from 16 DOE because they're being sued so they'll get it.
17 So this is the big thing right now is when 18 Dominion put in for theirs there was no reason why 19 they couldn't have put in for compensation for this 20 because that would have been an expense for them.
21 And if NRC can come over here and overrule 22 our zoning because they are that big and they can step 23 on us, it's like I told our state senator, we have 24 only 600 voting people in the town and you don't give 25 a damn about us.
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42 1 And that was Herb Cole. And it's the same 2 with Kagen's office and it's the same with everyone of 3 them. We met with them all. And Gary Visor is the 4 only one that is trying to fight for us.
5 But the State of Wisconsin is the only 6 state that takes all the utility tax and sends back 7 what they want.
8 MR. HOLIAN: Yeah. And I don't know if 9 it's the only state. This is myself. You might know 10 more about that than I do. I know you checked and it 11 is, and that's an issue with the state.
12 You know, I just, as you said that, you 13 mentioned that, you know, the NRC is somehow you mixed 14 us in with zoning.
15 Once again we have nothing to do with 16 zoning out here at the plant, you know. We will 17 license the plant but it is up to state officials, I 18 mean we'll look at the original siting of a plant but 19 it's up to, you know, state officials for changing, I 20 think what you meant was changing the zoning or 21 allowing the independent spent fuel installation 22 facility there.
23 MR. CARROLE: Town zoning.
24 MR. HOLIAN: Yeah, town zoning, okay.
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43 1 plants. You know, some plants, states have limited 2 zoning requirements where you'll only put 16 casks out 3 there. We won't let you put 20, you know, that's 4 happened at several plants I'm aware of.
5 Usually that works out amongst the 6 economics between the utility and the state and 7 somehow they come to some settlement in the cases I've 8 seen.
9 In other words I'm not aware of a plant, 10 you know, not being able to work that out somehow 11 economically with the state that's shut down a plant.
12 And we've had plants decommission over 13 economic decisions. I just haven't, don't think I've 14 seen one yet over how many casks or independent spent 15 fuels storage installation.
16 We've had some plants, you know, as I 17 mentioned that one in Maine that had shut down, had 18 some safety issues and the owner at that time just 19 said, you know, deregulation was coming. There were a 20 lot of things at the time and they decided not to 21 continue the operation of that plant or sell it to 22 somebody else.
23 So we've had several plants there right 24 around the early 90's that decided to shut down.
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44 1 renewal or environmental issues or scoping issues that 2 you want the NRC to look at.
3 You know, in some of those documents there 4 we do generically look at 90 some impacts from water 5 impact to land impacts to socio-environmental, 6 archeological impacts. So a lot does get looked at 7 both on the environment side and as you take these 8 documents and go away for the night and you think of 9 something as Sarah said anything that comes at an 10 environmental review you can come in and just put 11 those in either through us or through your state 12 offices where hey we want you to dig a little deeper 13 into these areas.
14 You know, the independent spent fuel 15 aspect you're right it comes up in these meetings 16 often because the immediate thing the public sees is 17 okay if we do the plant's been operating pretty well, 18 we like the electricity. But if we do let it operate 19 it bothers us because we didn't buy in for 20 more 20 years of high level waste being stored there also.
21 You know, we can understand some. And so 22 I don't mind that obviously being a topic of 23 discussion here tonight. It's not that that's not a 24 part of license renewal.
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45 1 we do license for a certain amount of time.
2 So, you know, we will have to look at 3 that. If Yucca Mountain doesn't go and DOE keeps, 4 well I won't put it all on DOE some of it's Congress.
5 Congress will cut their budgets so they can only do 6 so much work.
7 So sometimes you can't fault them for how 8 late they've been. I haven't looked at how much of 9 that blame is to share.
10 But, you know, even now, even with the 11 application in now and that's why I know you read with 12 skepticism maybe by 2020 because Congress has already 13 said well the application is in with the NRC but we 14 still may cut funds for the, you know, eventual review 15 of our dollars, NRC dollars to even review it.
16 So that, if we don't get the budget to 17 review it we'll have to delay it. It's just, so a lot 18 of that I put on Congress.
19 But I do get to the safety of those casks.
20 They will be looked at. If it's, it's a commission 21 level item. They call it a high level waste 22 confidence decision. Is there confidence. They 23 actually call it the waste confidence decision.
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46 1 grandkids. And they have to revisit that decision 2 that yes Congress is still behind moving it to some 3 kind of central repository.
4 So we don't mind the issue coming up. I 5 can't always give you satisfactory answers.
6 Just like in some area emergency 7 preparedness I showed you on an earlier slide and 8 security are even bigger issues than independent spent 9 fuel storage because people say, you know, right now 10 we don't think we can hear the sirens when something 11 happens at that plant.
12 And our roads are, you know, here you've 13 got plenty of roads to go somewhere. Over in New York 14 they've only got a few roads and that's a bigger issue 15 for them. And it's unsettling for them to hear some 16 of the answers which well if that's an issue that's an 17 issue right now it's not necessarily a license renewal 18 issue. There's other mechanisms to either get that 19 through your state or bring that to the NRC and 20 petition to shut down the plant.
21 But we do hear. That's the point of these 22 meetings. One we get to hear it. Some of your state 23 reps get to hear it. And you get to be on the voice 24 here of that as we take these back we do cover aspects 25 of this of what's on the population's mind in these NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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47 1 meetings and go from there.
2 Other questions, go ahead, yes sir.
3 MR. TADISCH: I'm Steve Tadisch. I'm a 4 resident here. And we're talking about this high 5 level waste storage. How is that going to affect an 6 addition to the plant or any new plants in the state 7 or the United States?
8 MR. HOLIAN: Just the independent spent 9 fuel storage? I --
10 MR. TADISCH: Yes. Are they going to give 11 new licenses even though Yucca Mountain is not going 12 to be running at the time or are they going to just 13 prorate it kind of and --
14 MR. HOLIAN: No.
15 MR. TADISCH: -- then hope that it's 16 running?
17 MR. HOLIAN: Well, the same issue for new 18 plants in the country, right. Now that's a whole 19 other, that's whole other division by the way. So 20 Sarah and I, our reviews are going to be only on 21 Kewaunee and the other 11 plants that we have in with 22 us.
23 It takes about two years to do a license 24 renewal and you're at the beginning of this process 25 for Kewaunee. So for the next 18 months we'll be NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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48 1 studying Kewaunee and the other plants that are in 2 there.
3 We are not affected by to quote the new 4 build, new reactor build. There's a whole other 5 division back at NRC that handles that. And whether 6 that comes about or not there's a lot of factors. You 7 know, there's economics. You know, will they get the 8 right, you know, rates of return on their money. Will 9 the U.S. even be able to build it.
10 But your question was even if Yucca 11 Mountain doesn't open up will the NRC even license a 12 new plant and the answer is yes. We could still 13 license a brand new plant having nothing to do with 14 Yucca Mountain.
15 It gets into that waste confidence 16 decision that hey that Congress has said we're going 17 to be looking at a repository.
18 If Yucca Mountain gets turned down for 19 some reason at its, you know, it's one of the issues 20 they brought up is there's more sizemic activity out 21 in Nevada than people thought. And people are saying 22 so therefore you should have picked Texas, shouldn't 23 have picked Nevada.
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49 1 activity, you know, that might delay it another five 2 years. Congress might have to pick another area.
3 You know, it would be longer than that.
4 But Congress has stated we have a waste confidence 5 decision that we will eventually get this waste and 6 put it somewhere.
7 Or now they're talking about maybe 8 reprocessing it.
9 So their timetable is off. They've looked 10 at the NRC and they've said, you know, can it be 11 safely stored while we wait on that. And the answer 12 is yes, you know, we can do it in the pools like we 13 originally for 10 or 15 years and then we can put it 14 in casks.
15 And they've stated the casks are not to be 16 long term storage. They've stated that. Now how long 17 is long term? Will it be how much of your kid's life.
18 But it's limited by that cask review.
19 But a new plant license the answer is, you 20 know, you can still go just like, you know, when these 21 plants were originally licensed you didn't have a high 22 level repository. It was envisioned that you'd just 23 build it by then.
24 So there's no, we're at this new plant 25 build, there's no view of whether it, you know, would NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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50 1 be a factor in deciding for an up or down yes or no.
2 MR. TADISCH: The game starts in ten 3 minutes so we have to hurry up.
4 MR. HOLIAN: All right. That's the 5 Phillies so you know what he's talking about.
6 MR. TADISCH: The only thing is I was going 7 to say it also says that those spent fuel rods have to 8 be in the water for five years --
9 MR. HOLIAN: Yes.
10 MR. TADISCH: -- before it can go in the 11 casks.
12 MR. HOLIAN: Yes. That's, right, that's 13 right. And there's usually not a problem with that.
14 The fuel that's in there it's plenty of room in those 15 spent fuel pools. The original design for, you know, 16 for 10 or 15 years of amount of fuel going in there.
17 So there's no problem keeping it in there 18 for five years. You're right. You don't want to take 19 it out before five years there's too much heat and you 20 wouldn't be able to cool it by air outside of that.
21 So they do keep it in there for at least 22 five years. And it's a good, good thing they've done 23 it.
24 You know, one of the plan, I'll just 25 mention, you know, has, it was on a New York plant NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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51 1 just drained one of their old spent fuel pools and 2 actually moved some of the fuel that had been in there 3 30 years. And just, you know, moved it over to 4 another pool.
5 But there's been a lot of talk about even 6 then you might be able to store it not in a cask 7 outside but in some kind of, you know, right within 8 the plant boundary in concrete and just air cool it 9 there.
10 Now they didn't do that. But I'm just 11 telling you there's other methods for, you know, 12 putting that fuel in storage that maybe haven't been 13 thought about yet.
14 So I know that's an unsettling issue. I 15 know in this community it's unsettling for some state 16 reasons really for some kind of financial equity.
17 And, you know, I understand that.
18 There was a state rep here this afternoon 19 and he heard that again and that was good for this 20 forum to bring that up. We were keyed into it even by 21 the regional people that that would be an issue to 22 come up.
23 And I, you know, I apologize sometimes the 24 NRC, the federal government, you know, doesn't have 25 more of a say in a state issue. Well, it just NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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52 1 doesn't. You know, I got asked in a New York meeting 2 what if the governor of New York says he doesn't want 3 that plant re licensed. And I said well he can just 4 add his name to, you know, another list of people.
5 I mean some of the state individuals don't 6 have, you know, as much say as an individual who lives 7 within 10 miles of the plant.
8 You know, you have an opportunity if you 9 have a safety issue to put a contention in and say, 10 you know, maybe for some reason I don't think those 11 casks are as safe as the guy from the NRC told me they 12 were.
13 You know, I think something might happen.
14 And, you know, you can raise that issue.
15 It is being done. If you, and you're very 16 well read and I appreciate that because out in several 17 states and I think California was one they raised the 18 issue of whether on security after 9/11 we should even 19 do more with the casks and do some kind of other, you 20 know, berms around them or dirt berms and other 21 things.
22 So there have been petitions raised about 23 that. I just want you to know and the NRC, there's a 24 lot of written documentation about what courts have 25 looked at and caused us to do on that issue.
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53 1 But post 9/11, you know, a lot of issues 2 were looked at on the impacts and even fire impacts of 3 planes landing anywhere on site. And a lot of those 4 reviews if they demanded changes were made but it the 5 results were kind of inconsequential we left them as 6 designed.
7 You know, I don't get into this often but 8 not only the casks themselves with the thickness of 9 that concrete but even the thickness of those 10 containment buildings or you're talking feet and feet 11 of concrete.
12 And that is one area that does get 13 reviewed by the NRC. I don't know if I mentioned it 14 earlier but not only piping and, you know, the fatigue 15 of piping, how many heat up and cool down cycles it 16 can take.
17 But concrete just the ability of the 18 concrete itself to last temperature effects over 60 19 years that's one of the items we look at here.
20 I don't want to drag it out too long but, 21 you know, as we do close the meeting we'll be around 22 here. We'll be packing up some of the material that 23 you don't, decide not to take for going to the next 24 meeting.
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54 1 concerns that you just want to get a different answer 2 to while we're closing up tonight feel free to grab 3 us.
4 Any other questions on the process?
5 We will be back for, you know, other 6 meetings when these documents come out in draft form.
7 The safety evaluation and the environmental report.
8 You know, there will be another meeting like this 9 scheduled somewhere here in the area to go over that 10 and here's what we found.
11 It's probably still a, you know, a year 12 away some of those meetings but.
13 Well, thank you for coming out tonight. I 14 know it's an upset to your schedules to get out but 15 we're glad you did come out and that's what we're here 16 for.
17 And you can get us by e-mail. You can 18 contact us by the web site itself. So please feel 19 free to give us a call on any other issues. Thank 20 you.
21 (Whereupon the meeting concluded at 8:00 22 p.m.)
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