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Transcript of Kewaunee License Renewal Evening Scoping Meeting Evening Session, October 22, 2008
	ML083190744
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Site:	Kewaunee
Issue date:	10/22/2008
From:	; Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation
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References
	NRC-2475, TAC MD9409
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Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

Title:

Kewaunee Power Station License Renewal Public Meeting: Evening Session Docket Number:

50-305 Location:

Kewaunee, Wisconsin Date:

Wednesday, October 22, 2008 Work Order No.:

NRC-2475 Pages 1-*

NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.

Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1

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BEFORE THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

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DOMINION ENERGY KEWAUNEE INC.

KEWAUNEE POWER STATION Regarding the Renewal of Facility Operating License WEDNESDAY OCTOBER 22, 2008 7:00 P.M.

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Town Hall of Carlton N1296 Town Hall Road Kewaunee, Wisconsin 54216

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(7:00 P.M.)

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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. HOLIAN: Good evening. I'm Brian Holian. I'm the division director for the Division of License Renewal back in headquarters.

Still consider myself a regional type guy.

I just am back from nine years in Region One which is outside of Philadelphia and I spent nine years in the regional office as a manager and before that I had been nine years at headquarters so I came back and am now heading up the license renewal program there.

So it's a pleasure to be out here.

With me today is Sarah Lopas the environmental project manager and we have a

presentation of just 20 slides and I'm going to check and see really because the crowd is small.

I know we bring out a formal presentation like this but we don't mean it to be if you don't need that.

So, you know, we do that and pack up this stuff and bring it out. Oftentimes we get larger crowds of people who aren't aware of what license renewal is about.

That's the purpose of tonight's meeting really just to describe the license renewal process and then the second part of the meeting is to take any

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environmental questions or comments you have.

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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We combine kind of two meetings into one where we take any questions or concerns that you want to address in the environmental review that will just be starting now.

Let me just take a quick check with who we had a crowd of maybe about 20 people this afternoon and I see some familiar faces and I welcome you back.

I thank you for coming back to both sessions.

But who was not here this afternoon.

Okay.

So if it's okay with everybody we'll just breeze right through those 20 slides. It should only take 20 minutes or so and it's a repeat for some. But it will be worthwhile and that's how we advertise the meeting.

You know, I just wanted to before I start the meeting mention a couple of things.

We do take these public meetings seriously. In the back of the room we have slides and if you get bored about these 20 minutes of these slides there's plenty of reading material if you haven't picked it up already back on the tables.

There's things from license renewal to high level waste which I know is a good hot topic here

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and a concern of a lot of people this afternoon so we'll get right into high level waste casks.

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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 And there's stuff on radiation protection.

How much dose does a member of the public get. If you've heard about the tooth fairy project where somebody is collecting baby teeth and analyzing it for, you know, how much radiation people get.

There's a factor, a backgrounder on that subject back there. There's a booklet on frequently asked questions on license renewal. How you can be more involved. So feel free to grab that even now or at the end of the meeting and take it with you, take one for your neighbor. That's what it's there for.

And then there's a single sheet of paper in the back that, a franked envelope, our public process. You know, the NRC is a public agency, public safety agency, regulatory agency and we come out to these meetings, you know, because we want it to be useful to members of the public.

So if it's not that useful. The time of the meeting is not right, the location is not right, you don't get what you want out of the meeting put it down there. If it's something positive or negative.

And we try to improve meetings as we go along.

Somebody collects those and grades us.

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Now with that I'd like to, you know, introduce three other members of the NRC. I think all three are here tonight again. They were here in the afternoon session.

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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 But first off we've got Kevin Barclay out of Region Three a project engineer. And Kevin has been with the Regional Three office for a couple years and spends a lot of time up here at Kewaunee and Point Beach.

And Vyktoria Mytling in the back. The public affairs officer out of Region Three a good contact for if you have any questions about the plant in the neighborhood, anything going on

from, throughout the whole year, you know, Vyka can get you the right person in the region or at headquarters for an answer.

And we've got Harold, right. Harold is back there. Harral Logaras. And Harral is kind of new back to Region Three but he's been a FEMA employee and he's worked on the industry side also and he's a government liaison officer and so he can also point you to the right contact and right issues in the state or state contacts. That's part of his job to be an interface between the NRC and the state.

And I know that one issue on, on taxes and

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the independent spent fuel is a good issue for Harold to be up on. So Harral from the region. He's only been there back about a month and he decided to come out to this meeting and makes sure he meets the folks around here. So we appreciate that.

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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Let's go right into the slide. We can go from there.

Our purpose tonight is to provide an overview of the license renewal process and describe the environmental review process and show our schedule.

Sarah will be covering all the environmental parts.

And as I mentioned the main item here is we have a set of things, like 90 things that we look at for environmental reasons.

If there's other things that we're not aware of you should bring those up. Something about the lake. Something about a fish species. Something about an animal species here that you think will be impacted by license renewal you let us know about it.

Next slide. You know, just a little bit about the NRC. If you're not aware of us, you know, I know we come out here for public meetings once a year at least to tell you how the plants in the area are

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doing. They're annual assessment meetings.

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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Lot's of good information if you're, ever see those advertised just with how well the plant and how well the region thinks the plant's operating that year. They'll give you inspection findings, what they're finding in the field and a good summary.

So we're out there for that. But we take ourselves from the license renewal process back to the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. And back then they licensed the plants for 40 years. You know why 40 years, who was here this, this afternoon, economic antitrust reasons. Really what, didn't have to do with a guess of the technical length of the plant or anything like that. It was mainly antitrust and all kind of major power plants that were licensed by a federal agency were given a 40 year life time.

In effect plants replace almost everything at the plant, you know, even in 30 years now. Some of the, pressurized water reactors are replaced, the big steam generators that haven't even been envisioned replacing when they originally built these plants.

So they replace a lot of equipment in there. So it's important as you look at license renewal we're not doing a new license for the plant.

We're renewing the existing license. And so you'll

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hear me talk about that.

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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 The difference being there we don't review whether it should be sited in the City of Kewaunee or outside the City of Kewaunee again. We don't look at siting. We don't look at emergency planning. I'll cover that in another slide here.

So that's some of the stuff we don't do and it's actually written into the license renewal rule that was, you know, Congress had us look at.

The Atomic Energy Act was smart enough though back there to say license renewal is a possibility, you know, NRC you'll have to come up with a license renewal process.

But back in `54 they said all right 40 years and then we'll look at a license renewal and how much to extend these plants like 20 years.

You know, we're here talking, we're about half way through the plants in the whole, across the United States. We're at about 48 plants out of 104 that have been renewed. We just did one up in New York a month ago and signed off on their license.

And they're already talking about another 20 years. I don't know if you heard about that. But it comes up about life after 60 and meaning they're already starting the research.

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It's not us. We don't do too much of it.

It's the Department of Energy. And I covered that a little bit this afternoon.

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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 You know, the NRC is a safety regulator and Department of Energy is a promoter of, maybe we should have a mix of nuclear, coal and gas. That's a separate government agency a lot bigger than the NRC.

But the NRC is an independent regulator.

It just looks at the safety of the operation.

The other item that Sarah will talk about more in the other governing statute is the NEPA, National Environmental Policy Act and NEPA came out in 1969 and really it's kind of an educational as I view it regulation that requires us for any significant action to do an environment impact statement.

And the commission after that came out that regulation came out demanded that for every license renewal the NRC would do an environmental impact statement.

And so that's one of the documents we're gathering information on, starting this process as a matter of fact Monday and Tuesday we had three of our staff out on Lake Michigan looking at the intake structure, you know, comparing it to other structures we've looked at before asking the state about what

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 they've seen on impacts from the current plant, you know, the current years of operation of the plant.

And walking down some of the land use and issues like that around the plant. So we've already started our review according to NEPA.

Next slide please. Once again the NRC commission and I've talked a little bit about this but to protect the public health and safety, you know, and the main issue I want to point up here is our job, Sarah and our job, is to make sure that we look at the aging effects of the plant from 40 years plus one day out to 60 years. That's what their application came in for.

Kewaunee came in and said we want a 20 year extension. So we'll look at the safety aspects of that.

And an important aspect though is that the safety of the plant is really done by the regional people. The regional inspectors. Some headquarters inspectors that go out. There are plenty, the regional folks out of Chicago that, and the resident inspectors who live outside the plant and go in day to day.

And you've got two residents there Steve and Pat. And they write reports up every quarter.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Those are published on the web site. They come to talk about those at meetings.

So you need to know you have that availability of those people living in the community that go to the plant and have unfettered access to anything they want to look at.

So that's the good part. Safety of the plant is maintained by, you know, what we do on a day to day basis through the NRC. And when you look at the logic for that, well, when it's okay to operate 40 years plus one day it's about the same plan.

You know, the big question we have to figure out, is it okay for a full 20 years on aging of the plant. We'll talk about that.

Next slide. Well, they came in the original 40 years is due to expire in 2013, that's not too far away when you really look at it.

They're one of the older plants. Not, you know, not as old. Our first plant that expires in 40 years is on the east coast in New Jersey and that expires in April of next year.

And it's Oyster Creek. They don't have their license extended yet believe it or not. We're done with our review but it's up at the commission level and there was a hearing involved in that.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Some of the local communities and it's up before Atomic Safety and License Board panel right now. It's been there for four or five months. So they had that extended onto their review. And we're waiting to, results of that.

They're required to come in at least five years before expiration of their license to give the NRC and the state really and other organizations a chance to weigh in on the safety of the plant. And so they filed in timely renewal in 2008.

Next slide.

The license renewal application, you know, it's at the local library if you want to look at it there. It is online. It's awful big. The four binders are back there on the table for their license renewal application.

It includes a lot of information. A lot of it we know about already about how the plant operates. You know, the plant systems we go out and inspect left and right.

But they're required to put in specifics about how it's aged. How they're aging. Do they have a program in place to check cable aging, you know, electrical cabling. Will they monitor it, test it frequently enough to pick up any degradation.

We concentrate in license renewal not on

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the active components, not on the pumps. We expect them to be monitoring the pumps and replace those on a frequency and their normal maintenance rule kind of takes care of that, another rule that they have to operate by.

But we look at structures. We look at the concrete structures. We look at the reactor vessel itself. That's a significant part of your review.

And we look to make sure that they have efforts in place and programs in place to manage aging.

There's some change to the plant tech, technical specifications. Those are the things they operate day to day, the people in the control room.

If you have a one train down you can only operate seven days unless you get that train, meaning a pump and a valve and a system for injecting water back up.

Sometimes they'll do some small technical specification changes as part of license renewal.

And then finally they'll even have to submit their own part of their environmental report.

The licensee themselves looks at the environment and how they're impacting it and we take a look at that.

And as I mentioned earlier get some independent information from the states and counties and other organizations.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Next slide. You know, as I mentioned it's a two phased review that goes on. Really we have a safety review. It's separate reviewers and a separate branch at Sarah's end on environmental reviewing or has been associated with the environmental review.

On the safety there it is. We make sure we look at the aging effects and we do that a couple ways. We do it from our headquarters reviewers and we also do it kind of we evolved into bringing some early reviewers out to the site and they'll come out for an audit.

We found out that's a better way to look at some of the documentation that the licensee references. You know, make sure if they tell us they have a program in place we want to set our eyes on and the documentation and what it does.

So we'll start those audits, you know, here shortly.

Environmental review is very similar.

They contact a lot of other federal organizations do you know any reason why environmentally there's some issue you've had with the plant or the licensee or the, just the Lake Michigan area here. What should we be aware of. Sarah will cover more on that.

Next slide. You know, what don't we do.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I'll just quickly cover that because this gets a lot of attention and the NRC gets criticized for not doing a review of these areas.

So I, we lay that right out for you. The license renewal process does not re look at emergency planning, security or current, kind of current safety performance.

You know, we don't take into account hey they had two yellow findings and one white finding over the last three years. You know, maybe they don't deserve to operate another 20 years.

We don't look at it that way.

If they get enough red findings and unacceptable performance that action may trick safety matrix, shuts them down as a result of that poor performance. So that can happen at age 30 of the plant.

We don't look at that. And we don't look at it because there's other NRC processes that look at that.

Emergency planning. A lot of folks, some folks have taken us to court on that right now. NRC you should re look at emergency planning. You know, things change.

Well, that rule 5047, you know, tells the

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 licensee every ten years when there's a new census you analyze the impacts of the population and, you know, can you evacuate still, can you shelter in place, can you effectively inform the population.

Security. Our security requirements post 9/11 they got a lot of attention and a lot of people say and still say today when you go re licensing re look at their entire security posture of the plant.

We don't think that's necessary. And a good example is after 9/11, you know, we had the potential for airplane impacts on a plant and you had a potential for, you know, what we looked at was our current design basis threat, how many people might attack a plant.

And the NRC looked hard at that after 9/11 and saw, you know, what can we strengthen.

They did. They put more, they forced the licensees to put more guards in place, more, you know, they called it guards, guns and everything and training and made them strengthen the perimeter boundaries. And so you saw some of that now. It's, you know, looking a little more fortified and is more fortified. So they were ordered to put that in place.

We didn't wait for license renewal and say if you want another license do it. The NRC figured

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hey in this time and age things have changed, you know, we should strengthen that now, enforce them to do that now.

So that's some of why we don't tie that into a license renewal review.

Next slide. This is really I won't spend time on this. It just talks again about the safety review up top. At the same time you're doing an environmental two different groups looking at it.

We do get an independent review by our advisory committee on reactor safeguards. It's a panel of individuals. Some from industry. Some from national labs. Some from academia who review the application, review what exceptions they're taking to our generic documents on license renewal. We've learned a lot.

And they call the licensee in for a meeting and then they call the NRC staff in for the same meeting and they question both of us. And do an independent review of license renewal.

And then finally it goes to a decision.

You try to get all this done in 22 months. It's several thousand hours of review effort to make sure that kind of each of the systems has an aging management system.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 And it can be delayed by up to five or six months. I mentioned one if it goes to a hearing process and you get the courts involved.

Next slide. You know, we talk about on this slide just two guiding principles. I've kind of mentioned them already but that the current ongoing processes are adequate for safety and that the main aspect that we do on license renewal is aging management reviews.

I'll go onto the next slide.

Now here I just wanted to stress again kind of how we got through our review. We will have teams back at the NRC. I've got several technical divisions, division license renewal that I'm the director for has our own experts in materials, has our own experts in electrical instrument and controls.

We'll look at aspects of the review. We will contract some out to the national labs to do independent checks on items like this.

We look at metal fatigue. How many heat ups and cool downs can a pipe take over a 60 year period and has the licensee actually, you know, analyzed how many they've had in the first 30 years of operation and will they be bounded by that.

So we have a lot of experts do that. I

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 mentioned the onsite audits. We will issue a safety evaluation report. That will be 600 pages.

That's one thing I didn't mention in the afternoon. I'm trying to make that more readable. I think it's, you know, it's a big document and it's got a lot of information in it. A lot of it's repeated from the licensee's application.

So I'm trying to shorten that up. I don't think it needs to be such a long evaluation.

As a matter of fact in the press, I didn't mention it this afternoon, but we actually got criticized by our office of inspector general last year. It was 2007 for not making those documents a little more readable to the members of the public.

One they criticized us for putting too much information in it from the licensee's application and then not backing up our statements with enough indepth.

So we've done some, you know, improvements to how much and how much we include in there and to what depth of material. But I wanted to mention that as an ongoing criticism of even how we do our reviews.

But it's good from the public to know that there's an independent, independent people looking over our shoulders.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 What's also important here is the regional inspections. Not only do my people go out for site audit, which we found very worthwhile, but the region sends their own inspection team out. And they'll walk down a system and say licensee how come you didn't include this tank in the charging system in the scope of license renewal.

And the licensee will have to answer that and make sure that they've scoped in the right amount of equipment. Did they include everything that they should in the management of the plant.

What's also important here is that they'll come back. This plant is going through the process, you know, within five or so years of when their period expires.

We've had some plants already get their license renewed and they've only been 25 years into the process. So their first 40 year period doesn't end for 15 more years.

And I went, you know, to one of the meetings and a guy said hey the licensee has a commitment in here in 2022, you know, to have this program in place, you know, who's going to look at that then.

And well the NRC will still be here, you

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 know, it might not be this individual or me but we'll be there and they're documented in there.

And the region will send out an inspection team again in that last year prior to them going in to the license renewal period to verify that the commitments are met.

I mentioned the ACRS.

Next slide. Well, here's where we get into the environmental side and I'll let Sarah take over and quickly go through the environmental aspects.

MS. LOPAS: Hi. I'm Sarah Lopas. I'm the Environmental Project Manager for the Kewaunee license renewal.

As Brian touched on earlier, the review, our environmental review is performed in accordance with the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 which is called NEPA for short.

NEPA provides the basic architecture for federal environmental review requirements.

It requires that all federal agencies follow a systematic approach in evaluating the environmental impacts associated with the major federal actions and alternatives for those actions.

By law the NEPA process involves public participation and public disclosure which is why we're

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 here tonight.

NEPA also established the US Council on environmental quality, the CEQ which is an office within the executive office of the president.

The CEQ establishes policy implementation of NEPA.

The NRC's environmental regulations which are in 10 CFR Part 51 are largely based on those regulations that CEQ developed.

Our environmental reviews consider the impacts of license renewal and any litigation for those impacts that we consider to be significant. We also consider the impacts of alternatives to license renewal, including the impacts of not issuing a renewed license.

The staff documents its environmental review in an environmental impact statement which we call EIS for short.

Next slide. For license renewal the NRC looked at a wide range of environmental impacts. In conducting our review we'll reach out to various federal, state and local agencies.

For example the US Fish and Wildlife --

MR. HOLIAN: She's got her Lavelier muted.

MS. LOPAS: -- endangered species. We'll

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 talk to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. The Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources will be important.

We also --

MR. HOLIAN: Could you push the button on that.

MS. LOPAS: Oh, yeah.

MR. HOLIAN: Just makes it --

MS. LOPAS: Good thing I'm loud enough --

MR. HOLIAN: You're loud enough. We don't need these sound systems.

MS. LOPAS: Oh, look at that.

MR. HOLIAN: We wouldn't, we wouldn't have brought these out these tonight but we actually do do court reporting to, you know, to make sure that we capture any comments on environmental issues and that and they get transcribed and it actually goes into the record.

That's why the recording system and everything.

MS. LOPAS: But otherwise I'm just loud.

Today at the early afternoon meeting there was actually a woman from the Costal Zone Management Agency here for Wisconsin. That's one part of what the plant has to go through in order to get their license renewal.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Next slide. So the environmental review process begins with the scoping process. The purpose of the scoping process is to identify significant issues that should be considered in the environmental review.

We are now gathering information that we will use to prepare our environmental impact statement.

As part of that process we're here to collect your comments on the environmental scope of the review and that is what, you know, important environmental issues you think that we should look at, the NRC should look at for this license renewal review.

The staff has developed in 1996 which we're currently updating right

now, a

generic environmental impact statement that addressed a number of issues that were common to all nuclear power plants.

The staff is supplementing that generic environmental impact statement with a site specific impact statement for Kewaunee.

In this site specific impact statement we will address the issues that are specific to Kewaunee and the staff will also re-examine the conclusions

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that we reached in the generic EIS to determine if there are any, if there's any new and significant information that would change the conclusions of that generic environmental impact statement.

Next slide. The scoping period started on October 9th, 2008 obviously. That's when we published a notice of intent and, intent to prepare an EIS and conduct scoping. And that was published in the federal register.

The NRC will be accepting comments on the scope of the environmental review until December 9th, 2008.

In general we're looking for information about the environmental impacts from continued operation of Kewaunee. You can assist us in this process by telling us for example what aspects of your local community that we should focus on. What local environmental, social and economic issues the NRC should focus on as well as what are some reasonable alternatives to license renewal that are appropriate for this particular region.

These are just some of the kinds of examples that we're looking for as far as input. And they represent the kind of information that we're seeing through this environmental scoping process.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So any comments that you have tonight would be helpful in that.

Next slide. This slide illustrates the commission's various considerations for deciding if a renewed operating license will be issued.

So how do we use your input? Tonight the public comments they are an important part of our environmental review and all the comments that we receive from you we'll take a look at. They'll be included in our review.

Next slide. To that end there are a few ways that you can submit comments. You know, you can speak tonight and it will be on the record. And you can also write us a letter and send it to this address.

And if you just reference Kewaunee license renewal it will get to myself or John Daley, the safety project manager. And you can also e-mail at Kewaunee.eis@nrc.gov. You can also e-mail me, call me, I mean any way that your comments come in - they do get incorporated.

I also have received some written comments tonight and those, you know, will come in as well.

And once again the due date for those comments is December 9th, 2008.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Next slide. This slide is the milestone slides for the environmental or milestone dates for the environmental review.

Obviously the highlighted dates so the hearing opportunity closes on December 1st and that's different than the scoping. You know, that's for contention for a hearing to oppose the license renewal.

The environmental scope being comments period closes about a week later or so. So those are the two important dates as far as public participation that are good to know.

We are going to be issuing a draft EIS, a draft environmental impact statement in August of 2009.

Next slide. This is just the license renewal contacts. John Daily couldn't be here tonight but he is the safety point of contact.

And then obviously myself. I'm the environmental point of contact. But if you call either one of us, you know, we sit right next to each other so not a big deal.

The Kewaunee Public Library has agreed to keep the application on hand for us. As well as when we start publishing the draft EIS we'll have a copy of

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that on hand as well.

I believe we have to send them a copy of our SCR too so they'll have that on hand for the entire length of the license renewal project. So for about two years.

And in addition to that it's probably easiest just to go online if you have access to that.

The license renewal web page will have, also has, you know, PDF of the application and when we publish the draft EIS.

And that's all I have to say. So we can move onto comments and questions now.

MR. HOLIAN: Well, we had a sign up list for questions and comments. We had a sign up list in the back and I know some individuals spoke this afternoon. But feel free it's a little bit of a difference audience and to repeat your comments or questions as you have.

I don't have a list but if anybody has a comment I will ask you to use the mike and identify yourself and comment or question.

And feel free to bring up again, you know the ISF, independent spent fuel was an issue that came up earlier so I'll bring it up if you don't. Yes, sir.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. HARDTKE: Okay. My name is Dave Hardtke. I have a question on the financial environmental issue with this plant.

If they are allowed to continue to operate we are sitting on a growing pile of nuclear waste.

And when this plant shuts down, and it's going to shut down someday, I have kids and grandchildren in the area, who is going to make up the financial loss to the town when this plant shuts down because we will not be getting any money from the utility tax at that point.

And we are sitting on a pile of growing waste out here and some day our kids are going to have to pay the price for it.

So I am against the, the license renewal right now.

MR. HOLIAN: Okay. Let's just, let's address that. And that was probably the prime issue that came out in the afternoon session also was the issue of the, of high level waste and that issue.

It's two parts to that question. You know, one is and I compared it this afternoon to just the high level waste sitting here. I mean that's enough to bother some people is just currently, high level waste sitting in casks here and the failure of

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the federal government to move that waste off.

We covered that in detail this afternoon and I'll cover it a little bit more here and there are some great documents on the background of that back on the table. So really grab one on the way out.

The federal government did state when they started originally building nuclear power plants that they would take that waste and, and move it off somewhere.

Now originally back then a lot of people don't realize they were going to reprocess that waste.

The waste that is sitting in those casks there is very valuable economically. It's got a lot of resources.

And in the 70's the United States went away from, of reprocessing where we would build a plant somewhere and reprocess that and make more nuclear fuel and I don't know all the percentages but you can take, you know, 90 percent of that fuel and use it again and get it down to an amount that is, is much more manageable for storing away eventually.

You'll always have some high level waste that you'll have to store away somewhere but they can take a good 90 percent of it and reuse it again.

Other countries do that. Japan does it.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 France does it and they do it for other countries and they do it economically although it's a lot of, a big up front cost that the U.S. didn't want to face in the 70's.

So but I mention that because all of a sudden that's coming back again just in the last year or so or two years and GEP, I forget what it stands for here, but, you know, the current administration said we look at that.

They didn't tell us to do that. That's the Department of Energy. So once again another government agency will look at is it feasible now with the economics to re look at using that waste.

You know, what would that do. That might minimize the amount that might go into Yucca Mountain if Yucca Mountain is the final resting place.

And it also might help fuel costs and uranium costs. I mean people worry some, that uranium is a fixed amount out there.

So the first issue I just wanted to quickly, kind of quickly cover was just it's sitting there bothers some people.

From the NRC perspective, you know, we don't, we don't get a voice in hey we'd rather have it shipped off to another place. They don't ask us and

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we don't get to state our preference on it.

We do get to do a review of both avenues as I'll call it.

Just this year the Department of Energy finally gave the NRC their application for the high level waste repository at Yucca Mountain. It took them 15 years longer. I don't know the exact number of years then it was meant to for them to study that mile long tunnel in the mountain that they made.

And it just took them too much longer. I don't know who blame. But some of their funding was cut at different years.

But either way the application just came in just a month or so ago the NRC looked at it after 90 days and said alright it looks like there's enough information in there for us to start a several year review on whether it's acceptable to go.

So you're right. It's delayed and it's delayed now until 2018, 19, 20 before, if it's approved. If it's approved waste will start going there.

So that's one issue is Yucca Mountain.

NRC will license that if that's the place.

What will we do when utilities have the waste growing onsite. Well, we reviewed how much they

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 keep in their spent fuel pool over the years. We watch them as they put in applications for us and they put more waste in there and they put it closer together and they re racked as they called it.

And we made sure that the water systems and the cooling systems were adequate for that. So those were reviews that we did to make sure they're safe.

After 9/11 we did some additional reviews independently with research to make sure the security of even the spent fuel pools there were still safe.

And then the casks that they, some of the plants went to starting, you know, a good ten years ago they realized hey we can't re rack, there were some other methods to go. They could put more poison in the water or some other ways but they thought the fuel that's been in there, you know, for a long, several years greater than five years, can be cooled just by convection air currents in a concrete cask.

And it's well known so they designed a cask. The cask vendors came in. The NRC did a year or two review of the cask vendors. Went out and looked where they were built, how thick the concrete was, what kind of stainless steel canister they'd need. You know, how many fuel assemblies to put in

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 there, how to make sure you'd get convection cooling, you know, just air cooling out on the pad.

And we actually put those into the regulations, those casks that were approved.

So the NRC said, you know, we'll go two ways ourselves, you know, the spent fuel in the pool has always been a method for safe handling of radioactive fuel. The casks for the older fuel is still safe and we looked at that and they've been in casks now for ten years or so. A lot of operating experience with casks.

And both those are deemed safe by the NRC.

Yucca Mountain we know there's a lot of political pressure. It makes sense to not keep waste in every state or, you know, there are 30 some states that have nuclear power plants, get it to some central repository.

The NRC doesn't have a stake in that. We don't get a voice in that. We don't get to say hey let's pick Utah and there's a lot of empty land there and just store a lot of these casks right now and put them on one location.

We don't get a choice to choose that.

Congress is looking at that a little bit themselves.

And so that's one item that might come

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 along. Even if Yucca Mountain gets delayed whether there's another central repository somewhere that they can move them to.

But the NRC position, you know, we do review it whether they're safe there. We do inspect it.

Now the second part of your question, I mean our inspectors go out there and make sure the temperatures are fine. Whether it snows outside, make sure snow is not blocking the ventilation ducts or that or the ventilation holes and, you know, it's fine. Radiation doses are measured. They're within the security boundary of the site or they have to build a separate one.

So security and safety of the casks are evaluated by the NRC.

You know, the second question about the fairness, you know, it, it's true that the public didn't sign on to have spent fuel in additional to the plant sitting there.

And there was a plant and somebody came up to me after the afternoon meeting who had worked at that plant, it's in Maine that's one of them that I've visited out in my regional job, where right now the plant decommissioned.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So the plant did go away. And it's a green field now. The buildings are gone. Everything is gone except they do have the independent spent fuel casks still sitting there with a security fence around it with some security officers there 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> a day.

And still have procedures to call the local law enforcement if they need anything. And it will be there until Yucca Mountain or a central repository is decided.

Congress has stated that they are going in that direction. They don't want it in individual states. The individual state senators and congressmen when we talk to them or they come in and talk to us or come to our public meetings they're usually universal for at some point we'll get there.

That's a long answer to your question. I know it's unsettling. It's not meant to be there for your kids kids, you know, it might definitely be there for your kids now for a good part of their lives as the government as a whole has delayed on that.

So safety wise though that's the NRC's job is to make sure that it's safe sitting there. And we do that. We inspect those. And I mentioned this afternoon even the transportation of some of those casks we're even looking forward to that.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 There was a tunnel fire in Baltimore and we know that's on the proposed route or any cask to go through a tunnel and there was a horrific tunnel fire five or six years ago and we analyzed the temperatures inside that tunnel from that tanker that had exploded and wanted to make sure that the cask design could survive something like that.

So we're still doing research about when the time comes for that.

That's one piece in on it. The other piece didn't come up but somebody might raise it.

This afternoon session the issue came up with locally here at Kewaunee an issue and a complaint about really the tax base for that.

That you're probably well more versed in it and someone can add on to it here from the audience I know spoke to it today.

But it was an issue once again that the NRC doesn't have a say in, you know, how your taxes either get collected or assessed for the ISFSI the independent spent fuel storage installation and how that money gets sent to the state and maybe doesn't make its way back to the town or county seat here.

We can't, we can make this forum available for that kind of complaint but we can't, we can't do

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 much about that. That's really a state issue.

And I know states do it differently. It's a, and I've learned in between these two meetings it's even been done differently here on the history of the plant here amongst the state.

And I know at other plants a larger portion of that does go to the local communities.

And, you know, so I can't answer that as well but I know that it's an issue that comes up and it rightly should come up in these forums during license renewal because it's an issue on your mind and it's an unfairness issue.

So it's good to hear it. You know, your state representatives if it's on the record here you can point to that and say we brought it up here in these meetings and kind of try to leverage that for your state economic issues.

But from an NRC perspective, you know, that's not a concern of ours.

Even going through this license renewal process sometimes we'll get through it and the state will have a voice in whether the plant gets re licensed. A lot of times they'll have water usage permits.

They held up a plant where we had given

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the approval out in New York and they, on one of the lakes up there they wanted to make sure that the, you know, the intake structure and all that wasn't harming certain fish habitats and that and so the state themselves have a lot of management issues.

So usually those work themselves out through the process even ongoing at 40 year plants and states will assess that.

But, you know, the NRC is not the final say on whether this plant keeps operating for out 60 years. We'll do the safety review of that and a lot of times it's up one to the utility, is it still economic to go nuclear. That's their own decision.

And then even the states will get a piece in on a lot of the water management usages of that.

A long answer but let me go to him and then back to you. That's fine.

Oh you want, you got the mike. Go ahead.

MR. HARDTKE: Could I just finish --

MR. HOLIAN: Oh, sure.

MR. HARDTKE: -- a comment on yours?

MR. HOLIAN: Yes.

MR. HARDTKE: I think that's what's broken in the system. You stand up there and say it's not your issue. We go to the DOE. DOE is not in control

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of those rods yet. They belong to Dominion.

MR. HOLIAN: Oh, right.

MR. HARDTKE: And so we're stuck with them.

So who do we talk to. Dominion says they, they aren't going to settle anything with us. You said you aren't in control. The DOE says they aren't in control but now whose taking responsibility for them?

MR. HOLIAN: Well, the federal government, you know, I say me because the NRC they have sued DOE.

So DOE they've actually sued the government, utilities have to recoup costs.

And it's your costs they're trying to get back. And somebody described that today. So NRC is not in on the financial side. So that's all I mean.

DOE is someone good to get at. Yeah, you're right. The rods aren't DOE's yet. But they've been held or they settled. I won't say how that's come out. But in court they've settled with utility companies who have sued them.

And so you're aware of some of the background. So they have had to pay out settlements for the fact of being late for taking that fuel out of here.

I don't think it's, but that money hasn't gotten to you. I know.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. HARDTKE: I know.

MR. HOLIAN: Yeah. So that's the issue here is that the money hasn't gotten to you and we had a state rep here this afternoon talking about that, that, you know, that part of that gets into the state politics of it.

You know, the settlement goes to them and, you know, how that's distributed from the state is an issue there.

Go ahead, sir.

MR. CARROLE: Well, I've got the CRS report here. And it's an updated one for October 9th. And Yucca Mountain might be ready by the year 2020.

It says might be. But it also says that every, every nuclear plant is getting reimbursed from DOE because they're being sued so they'll get it.

So this is the big thing right now is when Dominion put in for theirs there was no reason why they couldn't have put in for compensation for this because that would have been an expense for them.

And if NRC can come over here and overrule our zoning because they are that big and they can step on us, it's like I told our state senator, we have only 600 voting people in the town and you don't give a damn about us.

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 And that was Herb Cole. And it's the same with Kagen's office and it's the same with everyone of them. We met with them all. And Gary Visor is the only one that is trying to fight for us.

But the State of Wisconsin is the only state that takes all the utility tax and sends back what they want.

MR. HOLIAN: Yeah. And I don't know if it's the only state. This is myself. You might know more about that than I do. I know you checked and it is, and that's an issue with the state.

You know, I just, as you said that, you mentioned that, you know, the NRC is somehow you mixed us in with zoning.

Once again we have nothing to do with zoning out here at the plant, you know. We will license the plant but it is up to state officials, I mean we'll look at the original siting of a plant but it's up to, you know, state officials for changing, I think what you meant was changing the zoning or allowing the independent spent fuel installation facility there.

MR. CARROLE: Town zoning.

MR. HOLIAN: Yeah, town zoning, okay.

And so that's been an issue at some

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 plants. You know, some plants, states have limited zoning requirements where you'll only put 16 casks out there. We won't let you put 20, you know, that's happened at several plants I'm aware of.

Usually that works out amongst the economics between the utility and the state and somehow they come to some settlement in the cases I've seen.

In other words I'm not aware of a plant, you know, not being able to work that out somehow economically with the state that's shut down a plant.

And we've had plants decommission over economic decisions. I just haven't, don't think I've seen one yet over how many casks or independent spent fuels storage installation.

We've had some plants, you know, as I mentioned that one in Maine that had shut down, had some safety issues and the owner at that time just said, you know, deregulation was coming. There were a lot of things at the time and they decided not to continue the operation of that plant or sell it to somebody else.

So we've had several plants there right around the early 90's that decided to shut down.

v t e Letter Sequence Meeting
TAC:MD9409, (Approved, Closed)
Initiation Request, Request Acceptance... Administration Meeting, Meeting, Meeting, Meeting, Meeting, Meeting Questions 27 October 2008 8 January 2009 3 February 2009 22 April 2009 8 July 2009 10 July 2009 Answers 9 March 2009 27 July 2009 Results Approval, Approval, Approval, Approval Other: ML082341039, ML082520774, ML083100092, ML083100093, ML083100094, ML083380455, ML090750720, ML091880344, ML100550210, ML102150464
MONTHYEAR2009-04-22 [Table View]

ML083190744

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