ML15103A041
| ML15103A041 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Pilgrim |
| Issue date: | 02/25/2015 |
| From: | Morgan N S Plant Licensing Branch 1 |
| To: | |
| Morgan N S | |
| References | |
| 2.206, NRC-1420 | |
| Download: ML15103A041 (40) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title: 10 CFR 2.206 Petition Review Board RE Pilgrim Nuclear Power Plant
Docket Number: 05000293
Location: (teleconference)
Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2015
Work Order No.: NRC-1420 Pages 1-38
NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC. Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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10 CFR 2.206 PETITION REVIEW BOARD (PRB)
CONFERENCE CALL RE:
PILGRIM NUCLEAR POWER PLANT
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WEDNESDAY FEBRUARY 25, 2015
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The conference call was held, Mirela Gavrilas, Chairperson of the Petition Review Board,
presiding.
PETITIONERS:
WILLIAM MAURER
DIANE TURCO
PETITION REVIEW BOARD MEMBERS:
MIRELA GAVRILAS, Deputy Director
Division of Policy and Rulemaking
Nuclear Reactor Regulation 2 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 (Continued)
PETITION REVIEW BOARD MEMBERS:
NADIYAH MORGAN, Petition Manager for 2.206
MERRILEE BANIC, Petition Coordinator Nuclear Reactor Regulation EMILY MONTEITH, Office of General Counsel
DIANE RENDER, Project Manager Nuclear Reactor Regulation REBECCA RICHARDSON, Nuclear Incident Security Response SCOTT SULLIVAN, Nuclear Incident Security Response NRC HEADQUARTERS STAFF STEVE SHAFFER, Region I
3 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
4 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 1 (9:32 a.m.)
2 MS. MORGAN: Good morning. So, we will go 3 ahead and get started. Good morning. I would like to 4 thank everybody for attending this meeting.
5 My name is Nadiyah Morgan and I am the 6 Pilgrim project manager.
7 We are here today to allow the petitioners 8 to redress the Petition Review Board under the 2.206 9 petition dated September 16th, 2014.
10 I am the petition manager for the petition, 11 and the Petition Review Board Chairman is Mirela 12 Gavrilas.
13 As part of the petition review process, the 14 petitioners have requested this opportunity to address 15 the Petition Review Board. This meeting is scheduled 16 from 9:30 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. Eastern Time.
17 The meeting is being recorded by the NRC 18 Operations Center and will be transcribed by a court 19 reporter. The transcript will become a supplement to 20 the Petition, and will be made publicly available in 21 ADAMS. 22 I would like to open this meeting with 23 introductions and, as we go around the room, please be 24 sure to clearly state your name, position and the office 25 5 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 that you work for within the NRC for the record.
1 I will start off. Again, I am Nadiyah 2 Morgan of the NRR, Pilgrim Project Manager.
3 MS. GAVRILAS: Mirela Gavrilas, Deputy 4 Director in the Division of Policy and Rulemaking in the 5 NRR. 6 MS. RENDER: Diane Render, Project Manager 7 in NRR. 8 MS. MONTEITH: Emily Monteith, Office of 9 the General Counsel.
10 MS. BANIC: Lee Banic, NRR Petition 11 Coordinator.
12 MR. SULLIVAN: Scott Sullivan, Nuclear 13 Incident Security Response, Nuclear Security Oversight 14 Branch. 15 MS. RICHARDSON: Rebecca Richardson, 16 Nuclear Incident Security Response.
17 MS. MORGAN: Okay. We have completed 18 introductions at the NRC Headquarters. At this time, 19 are there any NRC participants from Headquarters on the 20 phone? 21 (No response.)
22 MS. MORGAN: Are there any NRC 23 participants from the Regional Office on the phone?
24 (No response.)
25 6 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MS. MORGAN: Are there any representatives 1 for the licensee on the phone?
2 (No response.)
3 MS. MORGAN: For the record, would the 4 petitioners please introduce yourselves again.
5 MS. LAMPERT: Mary
- Lampert, Pilgrim Watch, 6 Director, Duxbury, Massachusetts.
7 MS. TURCO: Diane Turco, with Cape 8 Downwinders. Harwich, Massachusetts.
9 MR. MAURER: Bill Maurer, Cape 10 Downwinders. I live in Falmouth, Massachusetts.
11 MS. MORGAN: And again, good morning to you 12 all. While it is not necessary or required for members 13 of the public to introduce themselves for this call, 14 however, if there are any members of the public on the 15 phone that wish to do so at this time, please state your 16 name for the record.
17 MS. LEGERE: This is Christine Legere. I 18 am a reporter for Cape Cod Times.
19 MS. MORGAN: Good morning, Christine.
20 Is there anyone else?
21 (No response.)
22 MS. MORGAN: Okay. With that, I would 23 like to emphasize that we each need to speak clearly and 24 loudly to make sure that the court reporter can 25 7 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 accurately transcribe the meeting.
1 If you do have something that you would like 2 to say, please state your name first for the record.
3 For those now into the meeting, please 4 remember to mute your phone to minimize any background 5 noise or distraction. If you do not have a mute button, 6 this can be done by pressing the star and six. To unmute 7 the phone, you press star and six again.
8 So, at this time, I will turn it over to the 9 Petition Review Board Chairman, Mirela Gavrilas.
10 MS. GAVRILAS: Thank you.
11 Good morning. Welcome to this meeting 12 regarding the 2.206 petition submitted by Cape 13 Downwinders and Pilgrim Watch.
14 I would like to first share some background 15 on our process. Section 2.206 of Title 10 of the Code 16 of Federal Regulations describes the petition process, 17 the primary mechanism for the public to request 18 enforcement action by the NRC in a public process.
19 This process permits anyone to petition NRC 20 to take enforcement-type action related to the NRC 21 licensees or license activities.
22 Depending on the results of its evaluation, 23 NRC could modify, suspend or revoke an NRC-issued 24 license or take any other appropriate enforcement 25 8 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 action to resolve the problem.
1 The NRC staff guidance for the disposition 2 of a 2.206 petition request is in Management Directive 3 8.11, which is publicly available.
4 The purpose of today's meeting is to give 5 the petitioner an opportunity to provide any additional 6 explanation or support for their petition before the 7 Petition Review Board initial consideration and 8 recommendation.
9 This meeting is not a hearing, nor is it an 10 opportunity for the petitioner to question or examine 11 the PRB on the merits or issues presented in the petition 12 request.
13 No decision regarding the merits of this 14 petition will be made at this meeting. Following this 15 meeting, the Petition Review Board will conduct its 16 internal deliberation. The outcome of this internal 17 meeting will be discussed with the petitioner.
18 The Petition Review Board typically 19 consists of a chairman, usually a manager at the senior 20 executive service level at the NRC. It has a petition 21 manager and the petition traffic coordinator.
22 Other Members of the Board are determined 23 by the NRC staff based on the content of the information 24 in the petition request. We also obtain advice from our 25 9 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Office of General Counsel.
1 As described in our process, the NRC staff 2 may ask clarifying questions in order to better 3 understand the petitioner's presentation and to reach 4 a reasoned decision whether to accept or reject the 5 petitioner's request. We will review under the 2.206 6 process.
7 Also, the licensee has been invited to 8 participate in today's meeting to ensure that they 9 understand the concerns about their facility or 10 associated activities.
11 While the licensee may also ask questions 12 to clarify the issues raised by the petitioners, I want 13 to stress that the licensee is not part of the Petition 14 Review Board's decisionmaking process.
15 I would like to summarize the scope of the 16 petition under consideration and the NRC activities to 17 date, September 16, 2014, Cape Downwinders and Pilgrim 18 Watch submitted a petition to -- under 2.206 to the NRC 19 regarding Pilgrim's land-based security.
20 In this petition request, the petitioners 21 requested that the NRC take an enforcement-related 22 action against the Pilgrim renewed operating license to 23 ensure that Pilgrim's land-based security is upgraded, 24 specifically, the petitioners would like checkpoints to 25 10 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 be manned at all times.
1 The petitioners would like surveillance of 2 the owner-controlled areas to ensure that intruders 3 will be detected and prevented from entering. And 4 that, the petitioner stated, that the basis for the 5 request is due to a reported 15 trespassing events on 6 Pilgrim's owner-controlled property from July 2002 7 through September 2014.
8 As a reminder for the phone participants, 9 please identify yourself if you make any remarks, as 10 this will help us in preparing the meeting transcript 11 that will be made publicly-available.
12 Since this is a public meeting, I would like 13 to remind the Petition Review Board Members, the 14 licensees and any other meeting participants to refrain 15 from discussing any NRC sensitive or proprietary 16 information during today's meeting.
17 I am going to turn it over to the 18 petitioners to allow them to provide any information 19 that they believe that the Petition Review Board should 20 consider as part of this petition.
21 Go ahead, please.
22 MR. MAURER: Hi. Good morning. My name 23 is Bill Maurer. I live in Falmouth, Massachusetts, and 24 I will start it out for the petitioners.
25 11 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Just to tell you a little bit about the 1 experience that provoked the 2.206's, Diane Turco and 2 myself were -- were being interviewed by a local news 3 station, Channel 7 out of Boston, and so we -- we were 4 interviewed by Channel 7 out at the intersection of 5 Rocky Hill Road, which is a public road, and the access 6 road going to Pilgrim Nuclear Power Plant.
7 And the interview lasted for about 20 8 minutes plus, you know, some set-up time and, you know, 9 all of that, parking the cars, and no one came out to 10 even ask who we were or what we were doing during that 11 period of time.
12 And so then, after the interview was taped, 13 Diane and I decided that we would -- you know, we would 14 walk down toward the plant, down the access road, which 15 is the beginning of the owner-controlled area.
16 And so we walked down the access road for 17 about a quarter of a mile to the -- to the building where 18 employees check in with their security card and go 19 through the turnstile.
20 Now, on that walk down towards the plant, 21 I mean, we waved at people. There were two presumably 22 security guards that went by us in the other direction, 23 didn't even notice us.
24 When we were inside the employee check-in 25 12 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 building, where there is a telephone and you can call 1 -- we picked up the telephone and tried to reach somebody 2 on that and no one answered.
3 Employees were coming and going and no one 4 even asked who we were and what our business was, and 5 I -- you know, it was just remarkable that the attitude.
6 It was like a college campus, and people were just coming 7 and going, and no one seemed concerned. It just -- I 8 was struck at how little of a security backdrop there 9 was, you know, whether it be just employees working 10 there or these two men who seemed to be security guard.
11 You know, there are signs that say "No 12 Trespassing. Keep Out." And, you know, that is really 13 -- it is very theater. It will only keep out the most 14 timid of tirekickers.
15 So, we walked back out down the road and by 16 the time we got back up to where the original interview 17 had started, there were -- there were the two guys that 18 walked past us in the other direction, and there were 19 two additional security guards with weapons out there.
20 And -- and it is just remarkable at how lax 21 the attitude was with security.
22 MS. LAMPERT: Now, weren't you walking 23 behind the guards?
24 MR. MAURER: I know when we were walking 25 13 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 back up the road to where --
1 SPEAKER CR: I am sorry. This is the court 2 reporter.
3 MS. BANIC: -- from the second building.
4 SPEAKER CR: Excuse me. Who --
5 MS. LAMPERT: Mary Lampert.
6 SPEAKER CR: Thank you.
7 MS. LAMPERT: Mary Lampert said that.
8 SPEAKER CR: Thank you.
9 MS. BANIC: Yes. As we walked -- when we 10 left the -- the employee check-in building where the 11 turnstile is, the guards that we had passed going the 12 other way were in front of us, you know, by about, oh, 13 100 yards.
14 And so we were walking behind them while the 15 two armed security guards were up at the intersection 16 of Rocky Hill Road and the access road, questioning the 17 Channel 7 news team that did the interview.
18 So, it -- it is just remarkable that two 19 people -- I understand this is the access-controlled 20 area, and it is up to -- it is up to the operator to 21 determine how much security is required there. It is 22 just remarkable that in this age of, you know, 23 terrorism, that two people can just stroll -- stroll up 24 to a nuclear power plant and knock on the door without 25 14 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 anybody -- without anybody asking them what their 1 business was there.
2 So, that is my story. I will let somebody 3 else speak now. Thank you very much.
4 MS. MORGAN: Thank you. Okay.
5 MS. TURCO: This is Diane Turco. Can I --
6 can I add into Bill's report?
7 MS. MORGAN: Please do.
8 MS. TURCO: Okay. Because, as a long-time 9 activist, and after 9/11, there is such a heightened 10 increase of concern regarding terrorist attacks, we 11 know that -- that, according to Senator Markey and the 12 9/11 Commission, that nuclear power reactors are on the 13 terrorists' lists of targets, and particularly in 14 Plymouth, because it is historically America's home 15 town, and only 35 miles from Boston, a major 16 metropolitan area.
17 We also know that the Nuclear Regulatory 18 Commission considers that the spent fuel storage 19 facilities aren't a problem in the event of a nuclear 20 attack. 21 Right on your website you talk about how 22 there would be no negative effects if there was an attack 23 on a spent fuel pool storage area, which flies into what 24 we understand from an Attorney General Office report, 25 15 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 2006 by Dr. Gordon Thompson, that if there was a spent 1 fuel pool attack or fire that it would not be able to 2 be put out, that hundreds of miles downwind would be 3 contaminated.
4 There would be 24,000 latent cancers and we 5 would just -- it would just destroy this whole 6 metropolitan area.
7 This is a serious, serious issue for the 8 public, and we expect that the Nuclear Regulatory 9 Commission will also take this as a very serious issue.
10 So, when Channel 7 News was doing a story 11 on Seabrook and the lack of security with people driving 12 by the unarmed guard shack there, are called them up and 13 said, "Hey, you should come to Toga. We can work right 14 on the property right up to the building."
15 Well, they came down and met us right at the 16 entrance of Pilgrim, where the first no trespassing sign 17 is. 18 Now, they saw the black SUV with antennas 19 sticking out of it, and there were no markings of it 20 being a news station van. We got out and we were 21 interviewed for about 20 minutes and, in fact, the 22 security guard in that automobile from Entergy drove by 23 us, never stopped to check what was going on.
24 And I thought, "Well, that is pretty 25 16 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 unusual. This could be a whole set-up right here, and 1 they are not even paying attention."
2 So, after our interview, we suggested to 3 this TV crew that we will show them, we could probably 4 walk by that guard shack that was unmanned and nobody 5 would even come out.
6 So, Bill and I -- and so the TV crew would 7 not go on because it would be going past those no 8 trespassing signs, and they weren't going to be doing 9 that. So, they stayed on the main road.
10 Bill and I walked past the no trespassing 11 signs, we walked past the unmanned gate and unmanned 12 shack and we kept walking, and we walked up to the top 13 of the hill, and I couldn't believe that people drove 14 by us, we waived. Nobody stopped or paid any attention 15 to us. 16 So, we kept walking towards the building 17 and then we thought, well, we would take some time and 18 so let's see how far we can go. So, Bill and I kept 19 walking towards the entrance building and two men from 20 -- I assume they were security men from Entergy, walked 21 in the opposite direction right past us, didn't even 22 give us a second look.
23 We ended up walking into the building where 24 employees were scanning or punching in a code to get into 25 17 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 the building. No one spoke with us. We stood there and 1 were so surprised that we were -- we were there and 2 nobody paid attention.
3 Bill, like he said, picked up the phone and 4 asked if he could get a tour, and no one answered the 5 phone. So, we stood there. And then we thought, well, 6 let's get back because the Channel 7 people are waiting 7 for us out on the street, and they have been there for 8 a while.
9 So, as we walked back, I noticed the two men 10 who had passed us previously were in front of us, walking 11 towards the public road. We walked behind them. It is 12 a good distance. And they never even knew we were 13 behind them.
14 And in front I could see the Channel 7 news 15 folks with two other security people from Plymouth --
16 I mean, from Pilgrim. One of them had a huge gun over 17 his shoulder.
18 So, I have to say, this was very, very 19 serious. We are two people on the property of a nuclear 20 power reactor and there are four security guards between 21 the street and us and the reactor is behind, undetected, 22 for over 20 minutes. That is a very serious violation 23 of security, I would say.
24 In considering, like I said, the location, 25 18 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 the spent fuel pool, it is just unacceptable, and that 1 is why we put this petition together because it is 2 unacceptable that Entergy does not patrol or protect the 3 owner-controlled area at all.
4 I will be done with that.
5 MS. LAMPERT: Yes. This is Mary Lampert, 6 Pilgrim Watch. I want to bring up just a couple of 7 points. 8 First off, NRC is responsible for safety.
9 We know that Entergy is responsible to their 10 shareholders. Clearly, they don't want to see the 11 place blown up, either, but they are looking at money 12 and particularly here in our market electric economy 13 where they are not doing well competing with natural 14 gas. 15 So, we can understand from the financial 16 point of view why they don't want to pay for guards at 17 the checkpoints going in. They want to reduce the staff 18 or keep it as at just required, as far as guards go, as 19 far as putting a fence around the perimeter. Then, that 20 would cost money.
21 Putting a grade across the intake and now 22 as recommended long ago by Homeland Security. That 23 would cost money, et cetera.
24 So, when you have the licensee looking at 25 19 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 their pocketbook, it is especially important for the NRC 1 to step up to the plate and fulfill your obligations to 2 protect public safety.
3 Diane mentioned, this is America's 4 hometown. That makes it a particularly -- Pilgrim 5 particularly attractive target. Also, you have to look 6 at the issue of land security in connection with the 7 other two modes of potential attack.
8 As far as an air attack, Pilgrim is 9 vulnerable to a small airplane. That has been 10 demonstrated. There is no security, nothing to prevent 11 an air attack on -- nothing on site, that is.
12 And these private airports don't have 13 beefed-up security that you find at your major airports.
14 Second, as far as security from the water, the nuclear 15 proliferation prevention project at the University of 16 Texas, their study specifically says it that Pilgrim is 17 one of a handful of reactors that was vulnerable, 18 especially vulnerable to attack from water.
19 So, you have two out of three that do not 20 have the robust attack security that they should. And 21 we have seen that the same is actually the case for 22 laymen. 23 We know that the U.S. Department of 24 Homeland Security had issued the National 25 20 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Infrastructure Protection Plan called NIPP, and other 1 Federal agencies along with NRC have confirmed their 2 acceptance of NIP.
3 And NIPP identifies the purposes to protect 4 critical infrastructure of which nuclear reactors are, 5 and the first -- first point is deter the threat.
6 And so, what we are talking about here is 7 the need to increase deterrents or the lack of 8 deterrents in the owner-controlled area at Pilgrim.
9 The importance of having visible deterrents such as 10 guards in the, you know, entry points, and a fence around 11 the property is really telling prospective, let's say 12 terrorists that, you know, this isn't necessarily a soft 13 target, so maybe we ought to take our trouble someplace 14 else. 15 And it also would tell the less 16 sophisticated perpetrator that, you know, this isn't a 17 good idea. If there is this apparent effort to keep 18 people off the property, it is probably really beefed-up 19 further down.
20 And that is a key -- key reason to have the 21 fences and the guards. Granted, the probability of an 22 attack you could say is fairly small, however, the 23 consequences are very, very large.
24 In addition, if people can wander -- as you 25 21 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 say, "at-will." I will say "at-will" onto the property 1 because only last week I was talking to an electrician 2 who came to do some work in the house. He lived in 3 Manomet close to the reactor.
4 We were talking about himself. Yes, we 5 always go down and go fishing. Everybody goes -- goes 6 down. It is not a deal. That is not good news. It is 7 not good news when you consider the weapons that are 8 available today that can penetrate the three -- now we 9 have three dry casks on site, visible from the parking 10 lot, that they -- that the two petitioners, Bill and 11 Diane passed, because there are weapons that can 12 penetrate, as you know, and the contents of a cask is 13 equivalent to half of the cesium-137 that was released 14 in Chernobyl.
15 Knowing that there are those casks there 16 now, okay, visible, able to be penetrated, it would --
17 and these casks are going to continue ever two years to 18 grow on this tag where they are stacked vertically with 19 nothing but a fence around them.
20 I think, as added reasons to beef up -- I 21 won't even say "beefed up." Add security to the 22 owner-controlled area, not to mention a fuel pool that 23 is tightly packed in a closed-frame design outside 24 primary containment. There are numerous ways, 25 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 obviously big problems could occur.
1 I would also add this point. The number of 2 security, or the DBP has in it an assumption of how many 3 attackers that they would have to defend against.
4 Now, if the owner-controlled area is wide 5 open, it only stands to reason that the number of 6 attackers, the number of groups of attackers would have 7 to be assumed to be far larger than if the 8 owner-controlled area was, in fact, secured to deter 9 entry. 10 And so, it seems you can't have it both 11 ways. You can't assume you only need actually a small 12 force of guards, you only need to protect against a 13 relatively small number of attackers, and groups of 14 attackers when you are wide open from the water and you 15 are wide open in your protective areas.
16 Now, because of the bad press, Entergy has 17 put up more signs. That was their response. That was 18 the most cost-effective measure they could take.
19 But, let's be serious. Signs along the 20 road and buoys in the water to mark the 500-yard no entry 21 area are not going to deter anyone who is determined to 22 cause trouble.
23 What are they -- there is a cartoon here 24 when they put up the buoys in the water that has some 25 23 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
-- a couple of frogmen approaching the buoy saying, "Oh, 1 my God, abort attack. It says "No trespassing."
2 It is the same thing with the signs along 3 the road. We understand that Entergy has two goals to 4 minimize efforts to have visible security. One, of 5 course, is money that I mentioned before. The other is 6 public relations.
7 That if you have a sign, then you might 8 notify the neighbors this could be a potential problem, 9 then they won't like us. It is the same type of thinking 10 of why the NRC and industry thought providing potassium 11 iodine, as was recommended in the Kennedy Commission 12 because we provide a pill we might notify the natives 13 this could be a hazard.
14 But this type of thinking is totally 15 inappropriate post-9/11 and inappropriate after 16 Timothy McVeigh, Oklahoma, and inappropriate when our 17 President is saying we should be concerned about 18 Americans here who may have become sympathetic to ISIL 19 and could follow not only the requests from ISIL to start 20 blowing up malls, shopping malls, but who really would 21 go after a mall when you have a nuclear reactor that 22 could cause such devastation, such symbolic value, as 23 we have here.
24 So, what we are saying is, to NRC, is -- has 25 24 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 endorsed NIPP, therefore, it is time to follow through 1 and require deterrents on the owner-controlled areas 2 because that is the only sensible thing to do in regards 3 to, again, the weapons that are available today, the 4 threat that is available today.
5 And I could list -- we did list in -- I think 6 it was Part B, the appendix, the capability of some 7 weapons and match that up about -- with the thickness 8 of the walls around the dry cask and the thickness of 9 the wall of the reactor and that should have been a 10 wake-up call.
11 We know nuclear utilities aren't required 12 to protect against rocket-propelled grenades. It is 13 sniper rifles with armored-piercing ammunition, 14 weapons that are possessed by many terrorist 15 organizations.
16 POGO, Project of Government oversight 17 noted that rocket-propelled grenades could be purchased 18 cheaply and quickly in international weapons markets 19 and shipped with relative ease to the United States, 20 making them a very plausible weapon for a terrorist 21 attack on U.S. nuclear facilities, and the one we are 22 looking at now, I am looking at actually -- I am looking 23 at it out my window, the Pilgrim's Nuclear Power Plant.
24 So, please, step up to the plate.
25 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MS. MORGAN: Thank you.
1 MS. LAMPERT: Who is next? Or, do you all 2 have any questions?
3 MS. GAVRILAS: We have no questions 4 MR. MAURER: You know, I will just add one 5 thing. One other experience of mine not reported in the 6 written petition is there is another entrance to the 7 Entergy owner-controlled area. I call it the back 8 entrance.
9 It is -- it is opposite -- it is at the 10 opposite end of the plant and it is -- it goes into a 11 storage area and where the helicopter landing pad is, 12 and it is up on higher ground. It overlooks the -- the 13 vantage point actually overlooks the plant and the dry 14 cask storage area.
15 I have driven into that area twice in my 16 vehicle. One time I even parked my car. I got out of 17 my car and walked up to the first layer of the double 18 fence where there were warnings painted on the ground 19 saying, "Don't go any further than this."
20 And I stood there, looking through the 21 fence down -- down at the plant and at least two 22 employees came into this -- this upper storage area and 23 went to storage, chain-linked fence storage places that 24 they had up on the paving, and no one even came over and 25 26 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 asked who I was.
1 You know, it is -- it is just incredible at 2 how casual, you know, the security atmosphere and 3 attitude is there. It -- you know, it boggles my mind 4 that -- that I could just get that close to the plant.
5 And I am -- I am not a terrorist, but I am 6 thinking to myself, you know, -- you know, there are all 7 kinds of weapons have now. You know, shoulder-mounted 8 rocket launchers and things like that. And, you know, 9 I could practically hit the plant with a baseball, 10 swinging a bat.
11 You know it is -- that is why we are writing 12 this petition. We really think that it is just -- just 13 way too casual at Pilgrim Nuclear Power Plant.
14 MS. LAMPERT: Yes. And another point.
15 Mary Lampert.
16 What Bill just said reminded me that some 17 of the FLEX equipment, you know, that is outside -- they 18 are outside the protected area, and so, on the one hand, 19 how can NRC approve the FLEX plan, the fact that the 20 extra diesel generator, you know, was put in place when 21 that could be taken out so easily.
22 MS. TURCO: Right. And this is Diane 23 Turco. And I just want to sum up here that all that is 24 happening at Pilgrim, with us being able to walk on the 25 27 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 property the way we did was very frightening.
1 It is just a symptom of the lack of real 2 oversight by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. When 3 I read on their website the answer to the question, "What 4 is the danger from radioactive contamination as a result 5 of a terrorist attack?" the response by the Nuclear 6 Regulatory Commission is, quote, "It is very unlikely 7 that any substantial radiological releases would occur 8 from an attack on a spent fuel pool or dry cask storage."
9 Now, just that the NRC acknowledges that 10 they don't even see any risk, very unlikely risk of any 11 release, radiological release is a very huge concern 12 because, like I said before, there are studies and 13 documents that say just the opposite.
14 And in the Crac Report, that is talked about 15 damages all across Massachusetts. So, you can't deny 16 that there will be a serious and substantial 17 radiological release if there is an attack on that spent 18 fuel pool.
19 So, I think it is really important that the 20 Nuclear Regulatory Commission recognize the risk. And 21 there will be no public confidence or trust when the NRC 22 artificially reduces the threat of a catastrophic even 23 by not including plans to consider the maximum level of 24 credible threat or require that Entergy work to deter 25 28 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 entry to the owner-controlled property by increasing 1 security in those areas beyond what they have done is 2 put up no trespassing signs.
3 Safety is not a suggestion it is something 4 that the public demands, and it is a mandate of the 5 Nuclear Regulatory Commission to provide for public 6 health and safety.
7 And we have put this petition in because it 8 is not doing its job.
9 MS. LAMPERT: Mary Lampert. Again, 10 Diane's last statement concerning NRC description of 11 the probability consequences of a terrorist attack on 12 spent fuel.
13 We noted -- I noted that in the Peachbottom 14 study done for the nuclear waste, new nuclear waste 15 confidence, it talked about what the consequences would 16 be of a spent fuel fire.
17 Of course, they never bothered looking at 18 security as a potential cause, however the consequences 19 were described that would make uninhabitable an area 20 about the size of Massachusetts.
21 Our own attorney general, the New York 22 Attorney
- General, Connecticut,
- Vermont, all looked into 23 and have looked into the consequences of a spent fuel 24 pool fire that could be caused by, among other things, 25 29 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 a security attack.
1 And so, recognizing there is a problem, if 2 you -- if you want for your own PR purposes, to say it 3 is a small probability, the consequences are 4 undeniable. Therefore, when severe consequences, it 5 then becomes prudent to step up to the NIPP 6 responsibilities of deterrents.
7 And I would broaden deterrents, not only to 8 the land, but also to the protective area that is in the 9 water. Pilgrim is on Cape Cod Bay and, as I commented, 10 there are 19 buoys, very thin, as a matter of fact, 11 because we have a couple of boats, to mark that area.
12 Last summer, my husband and I went out just 13 to, you know, see whether we could, in fact, see where 14 the buoys were. And with the lobster pots, their sticks 15 and then the sticks from Pilgrim, we couldn't figure out 16 and we didn't want to be caught inside, where -- what 17 is being marked. Where is it marked?
18 So, we asked some people who were in their 19 boats, fishing. They just had, you know, small 20 whalers, what have you, with anchors over. "Gee, are 21 those the marks where we are not supposed to go in?"
22 We asked three different boats. "I don't 23 know. Look, there are their boats in there. It must 24 not be. It must be some other ones closer. Who knows."
25 30 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Sometimes kids use them for slaloms, for Pete's sake.
1 So, my point is that the protected area is 2 not even protected on the water side when Pilgrim was 3 cited as being highly-vulnerable.
4 We know, if you go down to New London, 5 Connecticut, you can see floating barriers to protect 6 the atomic submarines. That is a possibility. But, of 7 course, it is not there. Also, the possibility for 8 grates at the mouth of the intake canal.
9 Entergy and Millstone, they didn't want it 10 because they might have spent some more money scraping 11 the mussels off to the grates. So, we know, it is a 12 piece of cake to be able to either a diver or a remote 13 controlled, operated using the underwater missiles to 14 take out the cooling structure.
15 Not a difficult operation. So, when I 16 stand in line -- I like to travel a lot. When I stand 17 in line at the airport, and they want me to take off my 18 shoes and they going into my bag because I might have 19 a large bottle of shampoo, but the nuclear reactor is 20 wide open to attack from the air, from the water, and 21 it would not be difficult from the land, and nobody seems 22 to want to do anything about it because it would cost 23 the licensee money.
24 I think you have got to understand that is 25 31 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 not right. Oh. I can't think of anything more to say 1 because it is so obvious.
2 Bill, Diane, do you have anything to say?
3 MR. MAURER: No. No. I don't think there 4 is anything more to say. You know, it is a no-brainer 5 for me, is that the plant is quite vulnerable from the 6 land and from the ocean and from the air. I mean, there 7 is no restricted air space over the plant, either. So, 8 I will close for that.
9 MS. LAMPERT: Yes. And I happen to -- Mary 10 Lampert. I thought of one more thing.
11 During demonstrations some people have 12 been arrested for putting their toe on the property.
13 Now, why are they doing that if they don't think it is 14 -- would be dangerous to have 80-year-old ladies 15 stepping their toe over the property?
16 But it does say if you are going to arrest 17 people, then you must recognize there is a problem. If 18 you recognize there is a problem, then you should be 19 having real concerns against that, because there is an 20 80-year-old lady or two. That is one thing.
21 But, that is not saying everyone or anyone 22 who is going to plan to cause harm is going to be like 23 those 80-year-old ladies. So, again, you can't have it 24 both ways.
25 32 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 If you aren't going to actually protect and 1 keep people out, then you might as well have your picnic 2 benches, serve cocktails, gin and tonic's on Friday 3 nights in the summer. Maybe show a few movies. Have 4 a whale of a time.
5 At least you will be accomplishing what 6 your goal is, that let's not be fearful of nuclear 7 reactors, let's pretend there can be no problems and we 8 will do this by assuring there will be a problem.
9 Oh, it is bad for my blood pressure, so I 10 am not going to talk anymore.
11 MS. TURCO: Right. And, this is Diane 12 Turco again. And I -- I will support Mary, too, because 13 there are gates there. There are no trespassing signs. 14 There is an empty guard shack. Empty.
15 And again, too, is that -- is that just 16 there to make it look like there is security there when 17 we kind of proved that there wasn't. And again, this 18 is a very, very serious issue. We are talking about a 19 nuclear power reactor, 35 miles south of Boston and 35 20 miles north of where I live.
21 MS. LAMPERT: And 37 miles from 22 Providence.
23 MS. TURCO: Does the Board have any 24 questions?
25 33 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MS. GAVRILAS: We are waiting for you to 1 conclude your remarks.
2 MS. LAMPERT: I am finished. I told you, 3 it is bad for my blood pressure.
4 MR. MAURER: Yes. I am -- this is Bill 5 Maurer. I have concluded my remarks, as well.
6 MS. TURCO: And this is Diane Turco, and I 7 would just like to make one more remark in just a general 8 not so much towards the petition.
9 But, given the Nuclear Regulatory 10 Commission's recent report from 1/26/15, after a whole 11 year of oversight because of the degrading cornerstone 12 that Entergy was given for Pilgrim, it has reiterated 13 that Pilgrim still remains as one of the worst operating 14 reactors in the world.
15 So, while we are very concerned about a 16 terrorist attack that is real because our senators in 17 the 9/11 Commission said so, we are also feeling that 18 Entergy and Pilgrim Nuclear is a terrorist site, itself, 19 for us, because of the dangerous and degrading 20 cornerstone that Entergy did not complete corrective 21 actions that they should have, that the last storm --
22 two storms ago, Juno, knocked it out do the scramble of 23 complications.
24 And then, just after Valentine's day, 25 34 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Entergy shut it down on their own with an incoming storm 1 but, again, there were more complications when they 2 tried to restart it.
3 So, yes, we know there is a terrorist threat 4 out there, but we also are threatened by the continued 5 operation of the Pilgrim Nuclear Power Reactor in 6 Plymouth, and we ask the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 7 to seriously consider to revoking the operating license 8 there for the public health and safety.
9 MS. LAMPERT: That isn't part of the 10 petition. Mary Lampert.
11 MS. TURCO: I know. I know. I know.
12 MS. LAMPERT: That is not part of the 13 petition, so I feel it is inappropriate.
14 MS. TURCO: Okay.
15 MS. GAVRILAS: Any more comments from the 16 petitioners?
17 MR. MAURER: I have concluded. This is 18 Bill Maurer.
19 MS. LAMPERT: Concluded. Mary Lampert.
20 MS. TURCO: I am concluded. Diane Turco.
21 MS. GAVRILAS: Okay. Thank you again.
22 At this time does the staff hear at 23 Headquarters have any questions for the petitioners?
24 (No response.)
25 35 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MS. GAVRILAS: I am seeing none.
1 What about the Region?
2 MR. SHAFFER: No questions from Region I.
3 MS. GAVRILAS: Thank you.
4 Does the licensee have any questions?
5 (No response.)
6 MS. GAVRILAS: Again, I am hearing none.
7 Do any members of the public have questions 8 about the 2.206 petition process?
9 MS. LEGERE: Yes. This is Chris Legere.
10 How long does it take to wrap this up? When can one 11 expect a decision?
12 MS. MORGAN: Well, honestly, you know, 13 that is really based on schedule, but we do, you know, 14 proceed immediately.
15 After this meeting here, the PRB will meet 16 internally to come up with an initial recommendation as 17 to whether or not to reject or accept the petition and 18 then, upon approval from management, then I will notify 19 the petitioners of that decision and then offer them a 20 separate -- or a second opportunity to address the 21 Board. 22 After that, then we will meet again to 23 discuss our final recommendations and then, upon 24 approval of management also, we will determine, you 25 36 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 know, if the petition will actually be accepted or 1 rejected.
2 And so, depending on which happens, the 3 process is different. If it is going to be rejected, 4 there will be a closure letter. Obviously, if it is 5 going to be accepted, it will be a proposed director's 6 decision as the final document, and that process is a 7 little longer because then we are investigating the 8 petition.
9 So, it is really hard to say. But it is an 10 ongoing process. We do try to, you know, get it done 11 as soon as possible.
12 MS. LAMPERT: Mary Lampert. Nadiyah, I 13 have another point. I have brought this up many times.
14 MS. MORGAN: All right.
15 MS. LAMPERT: In a proceeding I was in on 16 one of the NRC orders, Judge Rosenthal was sitting on 17 the Atomic Safety Licensing Board, and he accurately 18 said that was one possible exception, the NRC has not 19 granted a 2.206 petitioner substantive relief for at 20 least 37 years.
21 He concluded where, "Truly substantive 22 relief is being sought by some affirmative 23 administrative action taken with respect to the 24 licensee or license. There should be no room for a 25 37 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 belief on the requester's part to pursue such a course 1 is either being encouraged by Commission officialdom or 2 has been fair chance of success."
3 That is from his memorandum and order deny 4 petitions for hearing LBP 1214, July 10, 2012.
5 Additional comments of Judge Rosenthal.
6 And I will add there is no ability to appeal 7 a final PRB decision which also slams the door shut for 8 relief. There is a potential we are learning, to go to 9 the OIG.
10 But, my request would be to save a Judge 11 Rosenthal in the future could the Petition Review Board 12 keep score as the petitions come in and indicate, as 13 Judge Rosenthal has discussed, too, what it was about 14 and whether it was accepted, what relief was or was not 15 granted.
16 That way, I think it makes this whole 17 process more transparent and it would be helpful for the 18 public, but I think for the NRC also.
19 MS. MORGAN: Thank you for that, Ms.
20 Lampert.
21 MS. LAMPERT: This is a request on process.
22 MS. MORGAN: Thank you, Ms. Lampert.
23 MS. LAMPERT: Oh. Thank you, Nadiyah.
24 You really do a very nice job in keeping everybody up 25 38 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 to date on the status and procedure.
1 MS. GAVRILAS: Thank you for that 2 feedback, and thank you for everything.
3 Unless there are any -- any further 4 comments, I would like to say thank you to the 5 petitioners for taking time to provide the NRC staff 6 with clarifying information on the petition you 7 submitted.
8 Before we close, does the court reporter 9 need any additional information for the meeting 10 transcript?
11 MS. RENDER: No. This is Diane. I just 12 want to thank you for your time.
13 (Whereupon, the conference call was 14 concluded at 10:23 a.m.)
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