ML20198R111
| ML20198R111 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Point Beach  |
| Issue date: | 03/04/1997 |
| From: | NRC OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS (OI) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20198Q977 | List: |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 9711130158 | |
| Download: ML20198R111 (36) | |
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1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
- O 3 +++++
4 OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS
, 5 INTERVIEW 6 -----------------------------x 7 IN THE MATTER OP:
8 INTERVTEW OF
. : Docket No.
9 ERICH ZILLER : (not assigned) 10 :
11 -----------------------------x 12 Tuesday, March 4, 1997 13
.- 14 Pos.nt Beach Nuclear Plant 15 6612 Nuclear Road, Hwy. 42 16 Two Rivers, Wisconsin 17 18 19 The above-entitled interview was conducted at 20 1:00 p.m.
21 BEFORE:
22 RICHARD L. DE VITTO Special Agent 23 24 25 I[d "20dcl l M# 66 NEAL R. GROSS g gg /E O pg f/02) 2M4433 COURT REPORTERb AND TMANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 ALSO PRESENT:
2 h
3 MR. TONY MC MUP. TRAY, 4 Senior Resident Inspector J 5 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 6
7 MR. JOHN H. O'NEILL, JR.,
8 Shaw Pittman Potts & Trowbridge 9 2300 N Street, N.W.
10 Washington, D.C. 20037 11 12 13
. - s.
34 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS t COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1823 MHuDE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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. . . ~ ~ - - - - - . - . . - - -
3 1
P-R-0 C-E-E-D-I-N-0-S 2
(1:07 p.m.)
3 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Good afternoon. For 4
the record this is an interview of Erich Eiller who is 5 currently employed by Wisconsin Electric at the Point 6 Beach nuclear plant, Two Rivers, Wisconsin as a shift 7 outage coordinator.
6 The location of the interview is at Site ,
9 Boundary Center at Point Beach nuclear plant, Two Rivers, 10 Wisconsin.
11 Present at this interview and representing the 12 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commiesion is special agent 13 Richard L. DeVitto of the Office of Investigation, Chicago 14 field office and Point Beach NRC senior resident inspector 15 Tony McMurtray. Representing Wisconsin Electric and Mr.
16 Erich Ziller is John O'Neill of the law firm of Shaw 17 Pittman Potts & Trowbridge out of Washington, D.C. As 18 agreed this interview is being electronically recorded by 19 Ron LeGrand, Sr. of LeGrand Services and will later be 20 transcribed.
21 The subject matter of the interview concerns 22 Wisconsin Electric's February 20th, 1997 written request 23' to the NRC requesting enforcement discretion regarding 24 tervice water component cooling water requirements at the 25 Point Beach nuclear plant's units 1 and 2.
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4 1 Mr. Zillor, would you plo0Co ctend cnd reica 2 your right hand?
C. 3 (Witness sworn.)
4 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Would you please be 5 seac6d. Mr. O'Neill, would you please state the nature of 6 your representation here today?
7 MR. O'NEILL: I represent Wisconsin Electric 8 Power Company and Mr. Ziller has asked me to sit'in and 9 rspresent him in this interview, 10 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Okay. I understand, 11 Mr. Ziller, that you had a change of heart. Originally 12 you didn't want representation but you do currently?
13 MR. ZILLER: That's correct. Basically in 14 talking with Eob Harvey who just exited, I decided it 15 might be wise to ask the gentleman to accompany to this 16 interview.
17 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: You're aware that he 18 does represent Wisconsin Electric?
19 MR. ZILLER: Yes, I am.
20 INVESTIGATOR DEVI'1TO: And you're comfortable 21 with that?
22 MR. ZILLER: Yes, I am.
23 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Okay. Would you please 24 state your name and spell it for the record, sir?
25 MR. ZILLER: Erich Ziller, E-r-i-c-h, NEAL R. Gross COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBER 3 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20006-3701 Gt02) 234-4433 m_ -
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2 ERICH ZILLER, 3 was called as a witness herein, having been first duly 4 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
5 EXAMINATION 6 INVESTIGATOR BEVITTO: What is your date of '
7 birth?
8 MR. ZILLER:
9 INVESTIGATOR DEVITIO: Your Social Security 10 number, please? .
11 MR. ZILLER:
12 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Where do you currently 13 live?
14 -
MR. ZILLER:
15 16 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Is there a phone that 17 you could be reached at there?
18 MR. SILLER: Yes.
19 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: What type of formal 20 education or professional training do you possess?
21 -MR. ZILLER: I'm a high school grad with about 22 a semester and a half of college. I got caught post-23 Korean G.I. bill, pre-Vietnam G.I. bill. There was no 24 G.I. bill for me. And there was no help from my parents 25 for a college education.
NEAL R. GROSS count neontens ANDmAnsessens 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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'1 .So bacically I'a juct C high Cchool Grad, Cn I 2 ex-Navy nuko cnd o lot of technicc1 cchoolo but that's v .
3 a bout it ' .
4 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Okay. Where are you I 5 currently employed?
6 -MR. ZILLER: At the Point Beach nuclear plant.
7 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: What is your current 8 position and title? ,
9 .. MR. EILLER: Shift outage coordinator.
, 10 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Is that your official -
11 title also?
12 MR. ZILLER: Yes. .
13 7171ECTIGATOR DEVITTO: What are the duties of 14 a shift coordinator?
15 MR.'ZILLER: My primary job function during 16 outage is associated with shut down safety which is 17 essentially assuring there's adequate functionality of 18 various plant systems to support the key safety functions, 19 reactivity containment, inventory, etcetera.
20 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: How long have you been 21 employed by Wisconsin. Electric at Point Beach?
22 MR. ZILLER: A little over 28 years, January 23 12th was my 28th anniversary.
24 TNVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Row long have you heen 25 in your current position?
MEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 133 MHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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- L7 1 MR. ZILLER:, Approximately four'and o half
-1:
{ 2 years.. I was taken off shift August 24th, 1992. I've -
3 been in this position since that date, j [ ,
4 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: 'What did you do at the- -
E 5 plant previous to this position?
6 - MR. EILLER: *Most of1ny career was spent in 7 operations. I had 13 and a3 half years as a shift 8 superintendent, five years as a control room supervisor 9 and six years as a control operator. I was part of the
-10 initial operating staff and was co-licensed at the plant, s 11 IWESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Who do you currently 12 report to in the management chain? -
13 MR. ZILLER: I'm reporting to Felicia _
/ 14 Henessay.
15 INVESTIGATOR DEVITIO: What is her position or 16 title?
17 MR. ZILLER: Her position is outage manager.
10 INVRSTIGATOR DEVITTO: Who would she report 19 to, the next step up?
20 *MR SILLER:.,I believe it would be Fred Cayia.
F 21 We -lust recently sandezvent re-organization.
22 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: -Mr. Ziller, I'm going 23 to have you look at a document I've marked here as Exhibit 24 A. Would you please take a look at it? There's several
(. 25 paoes there. It's an enforcement discretion request.
NEALR. GROSS COURT REPOMRS AND TRUSCNBERS 1223 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. ,
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1 Ex mino it and we n9Gd to cck you o c:uplo quoctieno o .
} 2 relative to that document when you're through.
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3 MR.-EILLER: This is the.first time I've 4 metually seen the enforcement discretion. I was very much 5 in favor of obtaining this discretion to avoid taking the 6 plant to a cold-shut down condition while we had a 7 component cooling order from out of service. It wasn't -
. s the safest condition for the plant to be in. I did hear what the conditions of the NOED were at the 06:45 meeting, 9
+ 10 the morning of the 20th. .-
11 .
Excuse me one minute. Do you recommend I.
12 really study this? ,
13 MR. O'NEILL: It depends on the questions they _.
14 want to ask. If they want to ask questions, you should 15 readitcarefullh.
16 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: I would suggest you 17 familiarize yourself with it. We are going to ask you a 18 specific area of concern. If you'd like, we could go off 19 the record..
20 MR. EILLER: You are aware that I wrote the 21 condition report-regarding this?
4 22 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Yes, we are.
23 MR. O'NEILL Why don't4we go off the record 24- and give Mr. Ziller time to-read it'?
25 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Yes, let'e take a NEAL R. GROSS 6'
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j 3 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Back on the record.
- 4 You made a statement earlier that I'd like to 5 clarify for the record, relative to safety, can you 6 embellish en that -a little bit more? You said it vasn't 7 the sufest condition.
8 MR. 2 ILLER: Yes. Taking the plant to a cold 9 shut down condition, with one of the component cooling 10 water pumps 'for that tinit out of service, would have put --
11 it in a condition where it only had one train of decay .
12 heat removal. It could be argued that that is not the safest condition from a shut down safety perspective, and 13 C 14 it was better to keep the plant in a condition where steam 15 generator availability remained the primary means of decay 16 heat removal. .
17 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: You've had an 18 opportunity to review that document, Mr. Ziller. You 19 indicated for the record this is the first time you've 20 seen the document, is that correct?
21 MR. JCILLER: Yes. I-am not actively engaged 22 in operating the facility. I no longer have an active SRO
, 23 license but have an SRO cert.
24 INVESTIGATOR DEVI'ITO: You didn't have
, 25 anything to do specifically with draf ting that document or NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoCE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
$202) 234 4433 MASHINGTON, D.C. 20005 3701 (202) 2h 4433
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! I cupplying any infermatien fer that document?
f 2 MR. 2 ILLER: No, mt co for C3 th3 l
3 contingencies under the NOED. I was asked if I felt this
. 4 was truly a safe condition.
i -
i i.
S INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Nho were you asked that 6 by?
^
7 MR. ZILLER: Doug Johnson, who had some a concerns and he asked me if I thought applying for the 9 NOED was a wise thing to do. And I assured him that in my
, 10 judgment it was, and the plant was in a safer condition
- 11 using steam generators as the decay heat removal means and 12 not going down to where we were depending on a single -
'i" '^ "" h"' '" "'1' Th" ~~ ~ 'h ' ~~ "" ' '"" '
C 14 involvement prior to this NOED being initiated.
15 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Do you recall when that 16 question was asked?
17 MR. ZILLER: I believe it was probably the 18 19th, the afternoon of the 19th. Probably around 3:30 or 19 l quarter to four.
20 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: What involvement did 21 you have with Mr. Johnson?
22 MR. ZILLER: Just Ji casual discussion 23 regarding the situation. A ug wanted to make sure that 24 pursuing the NOED was the technically correct thing to do.
25 MR. O'NEILL: For the record who is Doug?
-NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS .
1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 1 MR. 2 ILLER: Doug JohnCon.
2 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: If I could call your.
!O 3 attention to page six, paragraph one which I have 4 highlighted in yellow, Mr. Ziller. If you could take a 5 look at that, please.
MR. ZILLER:
. 6 Oh, yes. I'm very familiar with 7 this.
8 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: That particular 9 paragraph you are familiar with?
- 10 MR. ZILLER
- Yeah, I'm familiar with the --,
11 design of the original component cooling water systems at 12 the Point Beach plant. '
13 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: How do you have that 14 knowledge?
15 MR. ZILLER: When I first started with the 16 company I was assigned to the original B shift and system 17 surveillance responsibility assigned to B shift included 18 the auxiliary cooling system which is kind of a basket 19 that Westinghouse used for spent fuel cooling, residual 20 heat removal and component cooling systems.
21 During the Ansta11ation surveillance prior to 22 filling the systems with water, it was pointed out that 23 there was only a single section in discharge cross-connect 24 valve separating unit I and unit 2 component cooling water
. 25 systems. This being our job at the time to look at the
, , NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCR!BERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 p'iping cystcas co th;y woro inotc11cd in th3 plent,-that
! 2- if we saw something that was unusual--to bring it to-
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- 3- management's attention.
t j 4 At that time we were advised it was of no
- - 5 concern because the component cooling water system outside 6 containment was not a safety related system and that is, 7 in fact, what the original design was.
8 INVESTIGATOR D2VITMs Again, calling your; I
9 attention to that particular paragraph, did you have any 10 input as far as this particular document itself?
11 MR. EILLER: No, I didn't.
12 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Let me also call your 13 attention to what I have marked as Exhibit B. It's a 14 condition report, signad off on 2/20/97.
15 MR. EILLER: Yes, I did see that. This 16 condition report was a result of the 6:45 in the morning 17 meeting on the morning of the 20th where I first heard 18 what the contingency actions of the company was taking 19 credit for underneath the NOED involved. I was not 20 particularly concerned when I heard that. .It-was only a 21 contingency to cycle these two valves. .However, during 22 the meeting there was a side discussion.
23 I wish 2 could remember who it was that 24 alerted me to the fact that operations was pursuing 25 preparation of a test which would cycle these two valves, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1833 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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whath3r er net cycling became n ceccory und:rnooth tho
! 2 HOED. That was of concern to me to the point where'I "
C 3
3 voiced a verbal concern based on my experience over the 4 years with the system.
5 We had a period of time where we had some 6 cross system leakage.-We'd see the surge tank on one 7 system go down while the surge tank on the other system 8 went up, surge tank, expansion tank, nearly the high point 9 of the system usually, but not in this case. .
10 In order to stop this cross system leakage we -..
., 11 attempted to torque the cross connect valves suction and 12 discharge in the shut-direction. I recollected where I 13 went out with another operator and we used a valve 14 persuader on the hand wheel of the discharge cross connect 15 and the two of us hanging on this large valve persuader '
16 were unable to move the hand wheel even a millimeter. The
- i 17 thing was rock solid. The valve in my estimation was as 18 shut as it was ever going to be able to be positioned.
19 And the leakage continued.
20 That evening at shift turnover I passed the 21 word along that.I would mot recommend torquing up on this 22 valve any further because in my estimation it was possible 23 that an excessive . amount of torque cotild possibly cause a 24 little bit of-damage.
25 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: When was that? What NEAf.R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS .
1323 RHODE ISLAND KK., N.W.
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I was th3 time frcm3?
4 2 MR. 21L52R: Oh, gosh.. That's a tough call.
!o a
3' I can't answer that. It's quite a few years ago, 4 INVESTIGATOR DEVIT70: More than five?
5 MR. EIILER: Oh, yes. I know I heard 1989 or
'6 I saw something, .an E-mail I:believe it was put out in the 7 '89 time frame. I do not know if that is accurate or' a synonymous with the experience I just related to you. I ,
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- 9 would have to go back in the station logs, find when we 4 10 had the problem and look at the control operator log m 11 sheets for both units to see this swap of mass from one 12 system to the other. '
13 Anyway, the point is that I was unable to stop 14 the system cross leakage. Because of that history and my 15 personal experie nce with that system and knowing that
- 16 others had tried to also shut that valve, I was concerned ~
17 that there any be a situation where the valve was perhaps _
18 over-torqued. so I voiced my opinion.
19 Mhat caused me to voice my opinion was not 20 that I .was worried the valve would open, but that the 21 valve would not seat properly when closure was attempted, 22 and once again we'd be faced with an operator work around 23 the magnitude of which I had no way to predict.
24 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: This was at'a 6:45 e 25 m'eting?
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W 1 MR. EILLER: Thic wao at ths 6:45 mecting.
5 - 2 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Who wac procGnt Ct thOt
- 3 meeting?
4 MR. 2 ILLER: Well, there's a preponderance of
. 5 people. There was an WRC resident there. 'There was Fred 6 Cayia there. I'm not sure if Scutt Patulski was.
7 Basically it's all the department heado. The purpose of e that meeting is for the off coming duty shift 9 superintendent to sit in while t.he oncoming duty shift 10- superintendent briefs the plant staff on what.the plant 11 cor. figuration is for both of the nuclear units. There was 12 a very short side discussion during that meeting which 13 alerted me to the fact that, as I stated earlier, 7.
14 operations was considering cycling these valves.
15 INVE'STIGATOR TEVITTO: Excuse me. Who did you 16 have that discussion with? _
17 MR. EILLER: As I indicated to you earlier, I 18 don't remember who it was that leaned over and let r.e 19 know. Then I concentrated on the fact that we're under -
20 this NOED. 'These valves may have been over-torqued in the 21 shut direction. They're not going to open. .
4 22 I want to make one thing perfectly straight on 23 the record. I never once doubted that these valves would 24 be incapable of opening while I was at that 6:45 meeting. '
25 That was never in my mind as something that was likely.
NEAL R. GROSS
. COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1 1sts RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. '
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L :1 INVESTIGATOR DEVI'!TO:- Howevar,-thsy htdn't-I 2- been opened since you don't remember when.
'}
3 MR. EILLER: They've never been-used for their
- 4 intended design function to the best of my knowledge. I 1 ~
c 5 know of no test that was ever done that opened those 6 valves. There have been some inodifications to the unit 2 7 component cooling system which really would make those 8 valves suitable for operation only in the direst of 9 emergencies. I'm Taferring to some of the component 10 cooling piping going to the let dewa gas trippers and i 1
11 evaporator which has isolation valves W 63 and 64 and they 12 are only shut by unit 2< containment isolation, not unit 1 13 containment isolation. _
14 so the system was designed long before those i ~.
15 add ons were put there. Those add ons were put there am 16 part of the intervention for unit 2 operating license 17 where the company _ agreed to install the latest equipment m
18 in keeping with the state of the art to process rad waste.
19 So my1 concern in voicing my opinion had 20- nothing to do with the fact that- the valves may not open, 21 rather that they may not-achieve . leak tightnear curing our
- 22- attempts to reclose them. It was with that concern in 23 mind that I voiced my opinion.
24 Now, the 6:45 meeting ended and I exited and i 25- Mr. Harvey approached me-in the work control center which NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTWIS AND TRANSCRIBERS ,
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{ 1 10 immedictoly cdjecant to tha c:nforenco room that t
2 hold our 6:45 meeting in, and he ahared his experience
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3 with me. As I indicatec'. to you earlier, long ago I had 2
4 turned the watch over and advised not torquing those 5 valves any further and I found out they were torqued considerably further through the use of not only a valve 6
7 persuader but a pipe and two people. I told Bob, thank 8 you very stuch for sharing that information with me.
9 -At the 6:45 meeting Mr. Cayia had instructed
- 10 me to generate this condition report, and in light of the .
11 information that Bob 3farvey shared with me, I advised him 12 that I would include that information in this condition .
13 report because it was pertinent.
34 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Let me just stop you 15 for a minute. Iou indicated Mr. Cayla advised you at the 16 6:45 meeting?
17 MR. ZILLER: Yes.
18 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: 'to complete that 19 document.
20 MR. ZILLER: Right.
21 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Row did he become aware 22 of that condition?
~
23 MR. ZILLER: He did not become aware of the' 24 over-torquing using the two people, the pipe and the (l 25 persuader. That did not come up at the 6:45 meeting.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TMNSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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[ 1 Thnt c:me-out of th3 post-6:45 mesting diccuccion betwacn i
r r . _2 Bob Harvey and myself.
3- At the 6:45 meeting based on purely my Ii 4 experience, my past experience, Fred wanted me to document i..
5 the fact that-these valves may have been over-torqued.
6 And he wanted this condition report written-so that .
7 engineering could look into the ramifications. I felt 8 very uncomfortable rending that history, but I felt that I ,
9 was concerned about an operator work again. I Taever ,
considered, because I was unaware of the pipe and the two 10 i-11 people with the persuader until after this meeting, so I 12 just voiced a vocal concern at the morning meeting and 13 then when I wrote this condition report, the condition 14 report was an amplification of those concerns based on 15 this later information. '
16 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: When you made that 17 concern at the 6:45 meeting, was this in the general .
18 meeting, was this open discussion?
19 MR. ZILLER: Oh, no, this was in front of the '
20 whole body. Unfortunately I don't remember Doug Johnson 21 being present. I. dont think he was there. .I don't 22 recall seeing him. I generally look around for people 23 that I have a friendly good rapport with. Of late, t
4 24 there's be a preponderance of people at those meetings.
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y 1 ' INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: _ Thio c:nditien r port, f 2 did you actually write this?
1
{9 3 MR. 2 ILLER:- Yes, I did.
{ 4 INVESTIGATOR MVITTO: Is this all your l
l- 5 verbiage?
6 MR. EILLER: Yes, everything is mine.
7 ,TNVESTIGATOR I)EVITTO: Did you feel j s comfortable with that term over-torquing? Obviously you 9 used it, so you must have.
10 MR. ZILLER: Well, yes, I felt comfortable -
. 11 with that term over-torquing. I feel comfortable with 12 that based purely on n.y 24 years of power plant experience 13 in the operations department in positiening some of these ,
_14 valves. Most of the valves are provided with a hand wheel 15 which, if the valve is in a good state of repair and 16 there's nothing under the seat, going in a shut direction 17 should give you more than enough force to cause closure 18 with no leakage.
19 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Did Mr. Harvey take 20 exception to that term?
21 MR. EILLER: Uhich term?
22 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Over-torque. I take it 23 you had a discussion with him.
24 MR. EILLER: No.
. 25 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: He didn't?
NEAL R. GROSS court REPORTERS AND T'MNSCRIBERS 1323 MHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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g L e MR.-EILLER: 'No. I w; n't too Curo thtt wh0n 2 I went-out personally with another operator and used a-3 largepersuader5theinitialattempttostopthiscross.
L 4 leakage, that I myself may have been guilty of over-5- torquing that valve. We put everything we had into it.
'6' We couldn't1et the hand wheel to move a. millimeter. That 7 thing was rock solid, as I indies.ted to you warlier. Now, 4
s I turned the watch over and .I advised that that valve is 3 shut; don't try and torque it anycoro.
10 , It really wasn't until af ter the G:45 inecting 11 on the 20th, many years later, that I learned what had 12 been affected in order to stop this cross system leakage.
13 And if I felt strongly enough to be concerned about what I had done without a-length of pipe and two people, this was 14 15 certainlyofsomhimportance.
16 If my recollection is correct, I wrote this 17 condition report, not realizing the sensitivity of this 18 and how this thing was going to mushroom. I wrote the 19 condition report and completed it late on the afternoon of 20 the 20th. I handed a copy to Felicia Eenessey, my boss 21 and I-didn't bother taking it .up to the work control 22 center until'the following mornir.g because the way our 23: plant staff, if there's not an inunediate operability 24 concern, and I did not view this as an immediate
- 25 operability concern because in my mind these valves were MEAL R. GROSS e COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCMBERS 1sp RCDE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 ll .\ c:p blo'of being openid, cf coming open.
. 2 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Wh t do you br a se that i
3 on?
4' MR EILLER: It's a gate valve. A gate is
- 5 driven down into the seat. It generally takes less I~ . 6 opening force.
7 INVESTIGA'!VR DEVITTO: Did you make this
~
8 statement here, significance: I Aelieve there is a strong 9 possibility that the stems of the valves may be damaged't 10 4tR. EILLER: I did say that. 'the reason I .
11 said that is knowing that we were pursuing a test to cycle 12 these valves, I thought.it was prudent to at least do .
13 radiography and look for a possible damage. Again, I did
(' 14 not consider the fact that there was potential damage 15 until I found ou't the extent of over-torquing after the 16 6:45 meeting on the morning of the 20th.
17 Now, I did not realize the sensitivity of 18 this. I believe, to the best of my recollection, I took ~
19 this thing up the following morning to the work control 20 center. Just prior to.the 6:45 meeting I said I may as 21 well have Bob Harvey review this because he's aware of 22 what I spoke at the meeting and it would be easier for him 23 to review it. And he subsequently reviewed it.
24 Now, the reason I wasn't in a particular rush
- 25 with this is the way our staff re'riews condition reports,
' NEAL R. GROS $
. COURT REPOMNS AND TRANSCNSDM 1323 RHoDE ISUWD AVE N.W.
4302) 334 4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. s00064701 0 02) 2344433
- * - ~ *~ -== ,....w ,_ _ . . . -..%--..'..w ,,,.%%,_. , , ,
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- 1 th3 canditicn rcporto cro given o rcvicw cnd th0y go into j-2 a basket, hard copies are provided and then they're handed u ;hr 3 out at the 6
- 45 meeting and then there's a meeting at 4 about 10:00, af ter the staff. members have had time to go j 5 through the stack of these condition reports and they sit 6 down and review them. I'm sorry, but I dropped the ball.
l
? I should have probably run this up the same day. Be that 8 as it may, I'm merely relating to you what actually 9 transpired.
10 Yes, i was concerned there could have been -
11 damage and you'll notice I even said down here, which you 12 didn't highlight, evaluate before first time use, 13 INVESTIGATOR DEVITT0: Um-hmm. Okay. .
14 MR. ZILLER: I suggested radiography somewl ~e 15 in the body, and I was t$old they were not going to take 16 radiography, and a couple days later there was a change of 17 heart and they took some shots. I'm delighted to report 18 that radiography showed very good definition. I was 19 wrong, and I'm happy I was wrong that there was no 20 a.pparent damage.
21 This was worded stronger than my verbal 22 concern at the 6:45 because of the additional information
-23 that came to my attention. But I still felt that in view 24 of what I knew, we should look into this matter further 25 before we attempted to cycle the valves.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCNSERS 1323 F. MODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
$3130 2344433 -WASHINGTON, D.C. sD0054701
$102) 3344433
_1-INVES'tIRMR _ DEVITTO: 2 0 th0ro o otoff l
I 2 meeting the following day.on the 31st of February thht yov
- O 3 attended?
4 MR. ZZLLER: There's been a couple of Leetings
's '
. 5- in this regard. I believe the staff meeting that I i 6 attended -- what day was it? "I forget. 'I've been working 7 some pretty long hours.
~
8 W il, it's in-the record. There was a staff -
9 meeting at the plant that was not that long ago.
I 10 INVESTIRTOR DEVITM: You don't recall if you ~ ~ ~
11 were at a staff meeting on the 21st? -
f '
12 MR. ZILLER:' It may have been -- last night, _I 23 want to say last night. There was a-discussion between my
^
14 boss -- -
~.
15 INVESTIRTOR DEVITTO: I'm saying following 16 the 20th. d 17 MR. ZILLER: -- and the head of engineering, i
18 Jim-s,::hweitzer, Felicia Henessey and Jim Schweitzer where 4 19 they asked me about my concerns and asked me to change my 20 view. .
21 I went on record as the shift outage 22 coordinator of not being in favor of doing this test '
23 because I did not think it was prudent to do, not the test 24 itself. I never questioned the fact that. the test would
(* 25 jeope.rdize the operability of the component cooling
., NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRSERS 833 RHODE BLAND AVE., N.W.
8EllQ N 4MSHINGTON, D.C. 3100H701 (min 234 4433
- ..__ _ _ _ . _ . . _ _ . . . _ _ _ _ . . _. r
, _ . y a cystca, but that conc 3rn d me wno that if th3 toct did not f
l1-t 3- obtain closure and we created an operator work around and
- O-3 a repair method would have been necessary t.o either of
-; 4 these single valves, my .roncern with going on record of
-t 5 not being in f avor of the test was related to not using
, 6 some sort of technology to work on the main component 7 cooling header of a fueled reactor and ey concern was that 4
8 perhaps in focusing on runrdng the rest they had failed to .
9 look far.enough down the road at any repair techniques
.: 10 that may become mocessary. -
11 The reason I was so concerned was purely from 12 a shut down safety perspective, a nuclear safety-
-13 perspective, what I should have stated.
C. 14 If you were to use=some technology, be it free
- 15. sealorsomeoth5rmethodology,toenableyoutoisolate 16 the valve requiring maintenance from the component cooling 17 system of the fueled reactor and you were to lose the mass out of that system, you would then lose the reactor 18 29 cooling pumps since the bearings are cooled by component
- 20 cooling and that is the decay heat method that utilizes 21 the steam generators.
22 You would also lose the residual heat removal 23 system since component cooling cools the residual heat 24 from the heat exchangers. -so you would lose in essence 25 all decay heat that we take credit for in our tech specs.
y . , NEAL R. GROSS
\
SOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 13D N10DE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
$3N) 544438 WASHINGTON, D.C. EBOOH701 9 02) 334 4433 b'W @ M ---.
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1 l 1 I conoid:r that to involvo o cartcin cmount of rick, t
2 Rather than rush into this test and perhaps put ourselves
,G 3 in that situation, I thought there was another option 4 available which would, involve a period of time over three 5 outages and in the process of doing this over three 6 outages we'd wind up with redundant isolation valves and 7 we'd never have to disturb the piping towards the fueled 8 reactor.
9 That's a very sensitive and real concern in my 10 mind, and I was not convinced that the engineering group '
11 at the plant did a far enough look ahead down the road.
12 so it wasn't so much the safety in the existing point in 13 time, but safety during -any repairs subsequent to the .
14 test.
15 So I wrote a memo to file which I don't know 16 if you have it or not, stating I was not in favor of doing
~
17 the test. I did attend a staff meeting where the staff .
18 indicated that, and I agreed that I had no problem with 19 the test itself, it was what might follow the test that ,
20 concerned me. So long as they had looked far enough down 21 the road and had considered the Tamifications of what 22 might become necessary and if there was some way they 23- could do this with disturbing the piping towards the 24 fueled reactor, that as far as.I was concerned it was 25 acceptable to do the test.
NEALR. GROSS count nEPONRS AND TRANSCNBERS 1333 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. .
(aan) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 300054701 (20s) 2344433 I
_! 1 I belicva that ctoff meeting wao yactcrday I
2 oftcrnoon. I w20 ct on3 cth3r m:0 ting wh2ro I voic d my 1
(.I 3 concerns. In view of the NOED it's obvious that there was 4 a real political need from the regulatory pei spective to
!~ 5 cycle these valves, to put this issue to bed. I wish I 6 could sit here and tell you that one of.the valves failed, 7 but I'd rather be wrong, and I'm pleased to report that I-8 was walking over here with my hat and coat on, I found out ,
9 that the discharge cross connect valve opened with about
> 10' 300 foot pounds'which is exactly the same as the suction 11 valve.
12 So what my opinion was all along turned out to 13 be correct. The valves did open without any difficulty. .._
Ci 14 So this test in very quickly going to become a non-issue; 15 however, it's embarrassing to have to go through this in 16 light of that.
17 MR O'NEILL: Could we make c) ear on the 18 record what valves he was talking about? He said the 19 valves.
20 MR. ZILLER: 722 alpha and bravo, suction and 21 discharge valves separating unit 2 and unit 2 cooling
. 22 systems. '
23 -MR.-O'NEILL: Thank you.
24 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: I,et me get back to this 25 condition report, M- . Ziller. You indicated you presented 44 eat R. GROSS c-COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE RELAND AVE., N.W.
9 02) 234-4433 9tASHINGTON, D.C. 30005 3701
@ 02) 234 4433
__ . _ _ . - ~
I
b 1. thic documen*. to Mr. Harvoy, 10 that c rrcet?
1-2 MR. EILLER: -I gave a copy with nothing filled
> )(_.
l 3 in down here to my boss, Felicia Menessey late in the lt '4' afternoon on the 20th,_ just as _I was preparing to axit the l .
5 premises and go home. .The following morning when I went -
! 6 up to the 6:45 meeting I had this in Aand.
i
- 7 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO
- So on the 21st- you were 4
l 8 at the 6:45 meeting, is that correct?
j
- j. 9 MR. ZILLER: I was at the 6:45 meeting on the l' 10 21st.
i 11 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: And you had this 12 document in hand?
13 MR. ZILLER: It was just prior to the 6:45 14 meeting. To the best of my recollecticn, just before the 15 6:45 meeting I b mped into Bob Harvey and he signed this 16- thing. I noted that he signed it the .same date that was 17 on the form.
18 INVESTIGATOR DEVIITO: He signed it on the 19 20th.
20 MR. EILLER: - Ytah. To the best of my 21 recollection I didn't Set that up there till the following 22 morning.
23 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: So he would have signed 24 it on the 21st?
(; 25 MR. ZILLER: On the 21st.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCNsERS 135 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(302) 334 4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 30006 3701 $302) 234-4433
1 f 1 7NVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: At th t point whnt did 1
-l 2 ha do with thic d:cument?
]O-3 'MR. 2 ILLER: He turned around and put it into q 4 a basket where the rest of these condition reports go, and
{ 5 the regulatory services personnel came up and made copies
,L 1
6 of it and distributed it to the department heads and I '
7 believe at 10:00 on the inorning of the 21st this condition 8 report was reviewed,. assuming my time line is indeed what 9 happened. That's the way,, as I explained to you earlier, 10 the way these reports are reviewed. They clump them and -
11 then the staff goes over them at 10:00.
12 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Did you discuss this 33 with anybody else, except Mr. Harvey? Was this brought up 14 as a discussion point on the 21st at the meeting, the 21st 15 of February?
16 MR. ZILLER: No, it was not. No, it was not.
17 I don't believe it came up on the morning of the 21st. I 18 saw no reason to bring it up because I had written the 19 condition report. My boss knew I had written the 20 condition report and I knew that the staff would be 21 reviewing the condition report later that morning.
22 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Did you have any 23 discussions with Mr. Cayla regarding this on the 21st or 24 subsequent?
- 25 MR. ZILLER
- I may have mentioned to him that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(302) 234 4433 4NASHINGToN, D.C. 20006 3701 (202) 2344433
- ~ ~ ~
-,.a
F
^
29 1 th3 condition report w o g:norated cnd was in tha cyOtcin, 2 but that would have been the extent of any exchange 3 between Fred and myself. I didn't go into any detail. I
- 4 didn't provide Fred with a copy of it.
i 5 ' INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: But he knew your t 6 concerns, correct?
7 MR. ElllER: He knew my concerns with the 8 amplitude that 2 had expressed verbally duxirig the 6:45 9 meeting the former day, which unfortunately was before the 10 over-torquing by Mr. Harvey and Mr. Irraf tuer were crought 3 a
11 to my attention.
12 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: You didn't have any '
13 independent knowledge about these valves being over-Ch 14 torqued?
15 MR. EILLER: Independent knowledge? I told 16 you that I considered what I myself may have attempted may 17 have constituted over-torquing, and it was with that .
18 thoughc in mind that I brought that to the staff's 19 attention.
20 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Mr. McMurtray?
21 'MR. HC MURTRAY: Vid Bob Harvey discuss any of 22 the operability determinations with you that he made?
23 MR. 2 ILLER: No, he did not. He looked at the 24 condition report and signed it and put it in the basket.
eN i 25 I asked him, wher, do these go right now. Maybe I
., HEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(302) 234 4433 -WASHINGTON, D.C. 2000lW101
, (202) 234 4433 l
- w. . .... - .-.. - -. -. -. . _ . . . _ . . _ _ . . . - . . - . - . ,_..,_ _ :. _ . -- ---
1 chouldn't hava intorrupted him. Maybe I chtuld'hnvo just 4-
? 2 walked away. ,1 said, where do these go right now and he
-$1 3 turned around and said right here. .Jie was at the counter, f
~
! 4 and you know, where that basket is for the condition 5 reports.
6 -INVESTIGATOR I)EVITTO: You weren't At any 7 meetings, say, on the 19th or 20th where the NOED was 8 discussed telephonically with the NRC?
9 MR. EILLER: No, I was not. I was not privy 10 to that. The first that I knew that these valves were '
11 being relied as a contingency for the NOED itself was at 12 the 6:4b meeting on the morning of the 20th when the shift 13 superintendant reviewed the conditions we were going to 14 operate under. That's when I first raised my eyebrows in 15 view of my experience.
16 And having no doubt in that these valves would 17 open if attempted to be opened, I did not see that as 18 being a real operability concern. My concern was, again _
19 as-I've stated three or four times previously, that we 20 would not gain positive closure subsequent to opening 21 them, sand that is a fact, believe or not, that's a. fact.
22 MR. NC MURTRAY: Did you discuss all your 23 concerns that were in the CR at that meeting and with Fred 24 Cayia?
25 MR. O'NEILL: I'm sorry. What meeting?
MEALR. GROSS count neomms ANovnANacmsens 1323 nH00s BLAND AVE N.W.
$MR) 334 4433 4 WASHINGTON, D.C. 200H701 (302) 234 4433 i- .- .
$f
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l 1 MR.-MC MURTRAY: On tho 20th.
l.
f 2 MR. EILLER:' No. All I did is I stated that O'
-i 3 based on my experience these valves may have experienced 4 over-torquing and I_went into a brief explanation of what 5 caused this, to perhaps over-torque them, af ter the 5 attempts to stop this cross system leakage where we saw 7 mass transferring from one component cooling surge tank to a the other. I started to relay some history to you. I 9 indicated that many years ago, at shift turnover, 7 10 indicated that they should not atte~ipt to torque those +
11 valves any further.
12 -
But I came in to take the watch the following 13 day and the guys kidded me and called me a wimp, meaning I C. '
14 did not have enough strength to obtain closure. Of 15 course, they clid *t share with me what they had gone 16 through to get this valve to seat.
17 I was just glad the cross system leakage was 18 gone. I just said, did you guys take up on those some 19 more? And I just . kind of shook my . head in disbelief and
-20 that was the end of it until the morning of the 20th.
21 M. MC +IURTRAY:- But in that meeting they did 22 not know all ., ar concerns. They only knew that you had 23 been involved in what you said?
24 MR. ZILLER: Based on what I shared with them, 25 and I. interjected at that point in the meeting -- you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSORISERS 1333 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. ,
Oce as444as +AsHINGTON, D.C. 30005@D1 .
GIDEQa364433
-M N* *eme he _ ee eww erme n <_,
. I know, we g3 through c ch cf tha d:partmentos industriol, 2 safety, shut down safety, and then each of the different O 3 departments and t'han on the tail end during other, is 4 shortly before then is when I first became aware that
. 5 operations was preparing a test to cycle these valves and 6 then I said I better alert people to the fact that these 7 valves had been over-torqued.
8 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Anything further?
9 MR. MC MURTRAY: I don't have anything else.
10 .
INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Anything further you'd ;
11 care to add for the record, Mr. Ziller?
12 MR. O'NEILL: I hav,e no questions.
13 MR. ZILLER: I really don't have anything
/ 14 that's pertinent to this particulnr instance. Off the 15 record I'd hke to share some thoughts bot that has 16 nothing to do with this. It's more related to the process
- 17 of what happened. -
18 1NVESTIGATOR DEVITIO: Okay. Mr. Ziller, have 19 I or any other NRC represantative here threatened you in 20 any manner or offered you any rewards for this state.nent?
21 MR.~*2 ILLER: None whatsoever.
22 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: Have you given this 23 statement freely and voluntarily?
24 MR. ZILLER: Yes, I have.
25 INVESTIGATOR DEVITTO: And there's nothing HEAL R. GROSS f courrnoromERt ANDTMNSCNBERS inta NiODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
por)zums: WASHINGTON, D.c. smx2 3MH por)3HMM i
__. _-.~ _ _ ..___... . ._____. .
f 1 further you would liko to cdd?
i
, 2 MR. EILLER: No, sir.
} I)
- 1 3 INVESTIGMVR DEVITTO; Okay. Thank you for
. 4 your cooperation.
5 (Interview concluded at 1:50 p.m.)
7 5 -
9 .
10 ,
11 12 13 C, .
14 15 16 -
17 18 19
- 20 21 - '
22 23 24 h- 25 NEAL R. GROSS 4
count wromas ANDmascaisens lies nHoDe ISLAND AVE. N.W.
4EIO 3344433 4 WASHINGTON. D.c. 510064701 M 3344433 t_
- -~~~~~e** - mm ,e . s
i i
D C3RTIF20&TE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the tinited states Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of Name of Proceeding INTERVIEN OF ERIC EILLER
.bocket Numbert N/A Place of Proceeding TWO RIVERS, WISCONSIN were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the 1)nited states Nuclear i
Regulatory commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to O'
typewriting by me or sander the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record o* the foregoing proceedings.
m -
- RON Le@ HAND official Reporter Neal R. Gross and co., Inc. '
O NEAL R. GROSS COURTaDORTERS ANDTRANSCRI2RS 3333 RHoot ISLAND AVD62,NW 002)2444H WASHINGTON, D.C. 30003
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DATE: N84[ 8 O U, V
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