ML13168A558
| ML13168A558 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Kewaunee  |
| Issue date: | 04/24/2013 |
| From: | NRC/RGN-III |
| To: | |
| Feintuch K | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML13168A570 | List: |
| References | |
| NRC-4131, TAC MF1045 | |
| Download: ML13168A558 (81) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
)
Title:
Public Meeting to Discuss the Decommissioning of the Kewaunee Power Station Docket Number:
50 -305 Location:
Kewaunee, Wisconsin Date:
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 Work Order No.:
NRC-4131 Pages 1-79 fOR\\GiNAL NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
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11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
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BEFORE THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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Public Meet to Discuss the Decommissioning of the Kewaunee Power Station
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WEDNESDAY APRIL 24, 2013
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CITY OF KEWAUNEE OFFICES CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS 401 FIFTH STREET KEWAUNEE, WISCONSIN 54216
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The Nuclear Regulatory Commission public meeting met at the City of Kewaunee Council Chambers, 401 5th Street, Kewaunee, Wisconsin at 7:00 p.m.,
Kenneth O'Brien, Deputy Director, presiding.
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11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 PRESENT:
Kenneth O'Brien Lopas Jo Mancuso Kenneth Riemer rt Krsek Edwards Feintuch Bruce A. Watson Smith NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PRO C E E DIN G S (7:00 P.M.)
MR. O'BRIEN:
Thank you.
Good evening, everybody.
Before I
- begin, please allow me to apologize for all you that are standing.
It's difficult to properly gauge all the t how best to predict the number of people to here.
I am extremely happy that you're here.
One of the fundamental values the Agency is to communicate to the public, and to sure that we're providing you best information we can.
So I'm really glad you're all here and, in, my apologies.
My name is Ken O'Brien.
I'm the Deputy Director for the Divis of Reactor ects for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission out of ion III.
The purpose of the meet we're holding tonight is to discuss the decommissioning activities that will be upcoming at the Kewaunee Power Stat Let me start off by welcoming everybody who's here, and welcoming those t are on the telephone.
The NRC's mission is to ensure the safe use of radioact materials by the civilian environment, to ensure public health and safety, to ensure and promote common defense and security, and the protect the environment.
We hold those values NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w.
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11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 extremely high.
Those are the key fundamentals that every s NRC s f members focuses on as part of our mission.
As I said, today's meeting is going to be one in which we're going to talk about the upcoming decommissioning activities for Kewaunee. Just to give you a brief overview of the meeting, we're going to t
k about the current status of the Kewaunee decommissioning effort; where they are.
We're going to talk about the decommissioni activities report Kewaunee has submitted to the NRC for our review.
We're going to t
k about the NRC's overall power reactor decommissioning act ties.
We're going to t k about the inspection activities we will be conducting at the plant going forward in the short term.
And we'll discuss how the public can provide us comment as it relates to the decommissioning act ties report.
The meeting overall, I'll provide some opening remarks, and we'll do some introductions so you know all the individuals that are sitting here up at the table.
And, as I said, I'll talk about the time line for the decommissioning activities.
Another staff member up here will talk about decommissioning act report I the decommissioning process, the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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oversight activities at Kewaunee.
Then I'll do some closing remarks.
At point in time, I'll turn it over to a facilitator we've brought with us from the NRC who will talk a little bit about the ground rules for question and answer session.
I'm going to try to have the staff here get through the presentation portions as soon as possible, so we can make sure you have an opportunity to ask tions.
We'll take a short break, and then we'll come back and do the question and answers.
I ask that, while the presentations are going on, if you'd p hold your comments until we finish so we can get as quickly as we can to your comments as you'd like.
MS. LOPAS:
If you could speak into that microphone a little bit more.
I think some ks in the back are having trouble hearing.
MR. O'BRIEN:
Thank you for that comment.
I've never been told that I was quiet.
Why don't we we get start
, why don't we go around the table so I can introduce the NRC staff to you.
Joe, if you'd like to begin.
MR. MANCUSO:
My name is Joseph Mancuso.
I work the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the Division of Reactor Projects, Region III.
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MR. RIEMER:
I'm Ken Riemer.
I'm working out our Lisle headquarters office for the Division of Reactor Proj ects.
I'm the branch chief with oversight responsibilities for Kewaunee.
MR. KRSEK:
My name is Rob Krsek.
I'm the senior resident currently at Kewaunee.
I've been assigned both as senior resident to Kewaunee and Point Beach since 2003, and my family and I have lived here in the area since then.
MR. EDWARDS:
Good evening.
My name is Rhex Edwards.
I am inspector out of the Region III
- office, and I
conduct inspections in dry f
d storage.
MR. FEINTUCH:
I'm Karl Feintuch. I'm proj ect manager with the Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation in Maryland, and I
handle licensing activities Kewaunee Power Station.
MR.
WATSON:
Good evening.
I'm Bruce Watson.
I'm the chief of the Reactor Decommissioning Branch at NRC headquarters in Rockville, Maryland.
MR. SMITH:
Good evening.
I'm Ted Smith.
I'm a project manager in the Reactor Decommissioning Branch at NRC headquarters.
MR. O'BRIEN:
Thank you everybody.
At this point, I'd like to ask if there are any local NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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7 elect or public officials that would like to recogni Well, welcome everybody.
I'd Ii to talk, just briefly, before I turn it over to the s f
about time line right now associated with decommissioning activities in Kewaunee. In accordance with the NRC's regulations, operators at Kewaunee Nuclear Power Plant have the NRC of ir intention to permanently shut down the plant on May 97th, to remove all fuel from the reactor vessel by 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 mid-May, to submit an application to the NRC to amend its license to reflect the shut-down status by May 31, 2013, and to begin decommissioning activities June of this As a part of purpose for today's meeting, we want to talk to you about those that NRC is doing and ewing as a part that process.
With that, I'd Ii to turn it over to Karl for discussion of the decommissioning act ties report submitted to the NRC by the operators at the Kewaunee Nuclear plant.
MR.
FEINTUCH:
Thank you.
The decommissioning activities report came to us and was rece on February 28th this year.
What we will do is complete our review that by May 29th.
after completion, the licensee may (202) 234*4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w.
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11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 decommissioning activities after we've addressed, or they have addressed any significant issues that we identify.
The mechanism that we have is that we do a review of the PSDAR, not an approval of it, since we're looking at its planned activities and that they're consistent with our regulations.
And those regulations are described in Code of Federal Regulations of the Part 50.82.
To understand the
- PSDAR, the public document I'm talking about I the activities report.
You'll that acronym occasionally.
We use a regulatory guide, and it's listed in the view graph at the bottom.
And our purposes and the purposes we expect of this document is 1) to inform the public, and I'm reading from the guide for its accuracy i inform the publ ic the licensee's planned decommissioning activities. Second, assist in scheduling of NRC resources necessary for maintaining the oversight activities.
- Third, ensure that the licensee considered both the cost of the planned activities, as well as the funding for the decommissioning process.
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11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 sting environmental impact statements.
And you will find all those things in copies of the you read.
We f re going to be asking for your feedback because part of regulatory process is to soli t
your comments.
So, for those that have not done so, ease pick up a
copy of decommissi ng act ties report.
If we've run out because the number of people here, then there's going to be contact information at the end my slide set to get a copy.
We're going to col ct comments at end the meeting, Sarah will you some further information about that.
- And, as you have any stions about this process, please contact us.
And if you'll go to the fifth and fi slide, you'll see contact information listed; myself by phone and by email address, Smith with his phone and e-mail ss, and the locally for Region III the two people listed on the right, Viktoria Mitlyng and Prema Chandrathil.
That concludes my part of this presentation. I'll turn it back.
MR.
0' BRIEN:
A couple of t
to ify, there are copies of the decommissioning activity reports on the table the back.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 also copies of slides that the staff are using, so you can have that information available to you.
With that, I'll turn it over to Bruce for discussion of the overall decommissioning process.
MR. WATSON:
Thanks, Ken.
I want to thank you all for attending tonight, and the opportunity to speak to you.
To my left here is Ted Smi He will be the proj ect manager for the decommissioning of Kewaunee when it is transferred from Office of Nuclear Regulat to our office of Federal and State Programs.
We're the Division of Waste Management and Environmental Protection.
Ted is an experienced decommissioning manager. He's been responsible and managed Haddam Neck plant, also known as Connecticut He's currently the project manager for Fermi 1, and has been the proj ect manager for a number research reactors.
will be working closely with Karl during the transition and so, they're pretty much a team, and they are your principal po s of contact for any additional questions on this.
We'll go to the second slide.
We have three principal regulations that are to be followed.
The first one is 10 CFR 20, which is Subpart E, and we also call the license termination rule.
And it, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 ically, was implemented in 1997 after significant involvement in stakeholders and licensees and the public during 1980's and 1990's.
Part 50 covers operating license and, as Karl said, 50.82 is the decommissioning regulations.
Keep mind that Part 50 regulations are pretty much a performance based regulation.
It allows -
MS. LOPAS:
Speak up a little bit so folks out in the hallway can hear.
MR.
WATSON:
Part 50 is, basi ly, a performance-ba regulation.
It allows a lot of flexibility for the licensee the decommissioning activities.
I want to keep in mind the decommissioning can be performed safely at any time during the 60 but it s require that the licensee complete the decommissioning in the 60 years.
The Part 72 regulations cover dry storage or on-site ISFSI, as we call it, independent fuel storage facilities.
Next slide.
There's, basically, three commissioning options.
The f one is, only two of them are used today.
first two, DECON, which is pretty much the prompt decommissioning of the reactor site.
second part is SAFSTOR, which is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W, (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross,com
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 the plant is placed in a stable condition, and can be that way for a number of
, up until the end of the license, which would be at 60 years, or end of the decommissioning is required to be completed at 60 years.
Even though a licensee may consider itself in SAFSTOR, officially, they can do some limited decommissioning act ties.
And they do that under another part of the law, regulations 50.59, which allows them to do certain activities, as long as they follow their continued safety ew requirements.
And they have to stay within what we call de-fueled technical specifications of the safety analysis report.
One the things I want to point out is licensees can go back and forth between SAFSTOR and
- DECON, but they have to notify us so we can make adjustments in our inspection program.
The third option, ENTOMB, has not been used the Uni States in commercial reactors, and right now we do not have any.
We do not plan on having that opt currently available.
So that's not truly an option, but it is in the guidance.
The bottom line of this regulation is that the licensee hasl again, 60 years to complete the decommissioning.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 If we can go to the next slide.
Prior to 1988, we did one power reactor decommissioning.
Over the last 15 years, we've done ne according to this sli And we have completed those decommissionings, and the reactor sites, licenses have reduced to t
onsite storage or ISFSI.
So, we've had some significant experience in this type of work, along with the material s es an the research reactors.
If we can go to the next slide.
In the power reactor decommissioning process, the licensee, basically, notifies us that, or certifies to the NRC within 30 days of permanently ceasing the operations.
For Kewaunee, Dominion plans to permanently shut down Kewaunee around May 7
I bel is date.
Dominion will have to send us the permanent removal of the fuel that has been certified to have been removed from the reactor vessel.
And they have ready submitt their decommissioning activity report. And, of course, purpose of this meeting is to hear your comments on the decommissioning activity report.
In the decommissioning act ty report, Kewaunee plans to place, excuse me, Dominion ans to place Kewaunee
- SAFSTOR, and return the site to greenfield is the way it's written. The NRC requires, again, that that must be completed in 60 years, and it NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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Therefore, I would expect that there may little activity for up to 50 years, bes the fuel that's in schedule for removal.
It, typi ly, takes one to two years to complete the preparation work to allow the plant to be put in a safe condition to allow it to go into SAFSTOR.
There's s lar activities that would be done, also, if they were going to go into complete DECON directly.
The NRC has accepted their PSDAR for review, and when we complete the ew, Dominion is able to access their funds to start decommissioning work which is, I guess, principally, the preparation work at this time.
Karl mentioned that regulatory guide 1.185 outlines all the requirements for the decommissioning act ties report.
And I want to reiterate that they may revise the decommissioning activity report at any t
and principally let us know, and public
- again, what the activit s are, and what they're changing, how they're changing the activities at the site.
If we could go to the next slide.
In the
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 existing license and under the current, well, will be a de-fueled analysis report.
So, as the decommissioning progresses, licensee will, again, be able to do some limited activities using their existing safety review process.
And to reduce surveillances and also other license requirements, they can make requests to the NRC.
The NRC will verify the license and regulatory compliance during on-site inspections.
We don't go away during this process.
We cont to monitor site.
And this work will, princ ly, come out Region III out the Chicago office.
And our project and our inspectors will work ly together.
The final thing that is done the decommissioning process is, when the 1 is ready, within two ready to have the license terminated, they will submit the license termination plan.
And, basically, the license termination plan will be noticed in the Federal Register.
We will hold a public meeting hear your comments on the license terminat plan.
And, at that t
, we will very interest in your comments.
The next slide.
The license termination plan is a very significantly larger document that this NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 107 pages in PSDAR, the decommissioning activities report. It contains a significant amount technical information, and is quite lengthy.
We take about a year to review it is our goal.
And, hopefully, it will be approved in that time frame.
But it does address all these issues, including any supplemental environmental information that would be pertinent to the site.
If we can go on to the next slide.
The NRC review the LTP begins with an acceptance review.
We rform a detailed techni review.
And if we have any additional questions, we request those of the licensee.
And is at one public meeting and opportunities hearing when the LTP is submitted.
We like to perform the acceptance review within 90 days.
The LTP, typically, will take about one year to do the complete technical ew.
Next slide, please.
We approve the license t nation plan by amending the license. The licensee finishes the decommissioning activities that are required to complete decommissioning. The NRC performs in-process inspections.
The inspectors are there during much of the clean-up activities.
We do side-by-si radiological surveys.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 17 results and ensure meet compl iance for the license termination meeting the unrestrict license, typically unrestricted release crit for the license.
And the next slide.
The final steps the process are that licensee will submit to us final status survey s for the site.
We will review and approve
- surveys, final status
- surveys, and we will also perform confirmatory surveys, additional ones, if we need to.
At that point, if we feel that site meets the criteria, we will terminate the license, at least the reactor part of itt and shrink the license to the dry storage on-site, the dry storage I storage onsite.
Next sli Just to give you a current
- status, there have 10 large power reactor licenses terminated.
We've done seven of them under the license termination rule, which is the current regulations.
are currently four units active decommissioning and they are actively decommissioning I
without an approved LTP t or license termination plan.
Like I said, the LTP comes in at the last two There are currently e units in SAFSTOR t are principally, at multi unit sites.
t Can we go on to the next slide.
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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a summary of the typical sequence that is in the reactor decommissioning process.
We included it.
We're not, necessarily, in the sequence that's here on this particular case, because the PSDAR has come in before the plant is shut down.
But this is the typical outline that is in the regulations on how the ss is supposed to work.
Go to the next ide. These are power reactors in SAFSTOR.
I have little asteri on Three Mile Island Unit 2 because that's the unit that had the accident. But it has, effectively, been de-fueled and is in a special case by the regulat But it is, essentially, in SAFSTOR, in a SAFSTOR condition.
Let's go on to the next one, next slide.
This is Fermi 1.
The reason I'm bringing this up, this is the reactor has gone back and h from act decommissioning, dismantling act ties, and back to SAFSTOR.
They recently removed the reactor vessel and, after that two year campaign to remove the reactor vessel, which they did very saf y, and they dec they would go back to SAFSTOR.
They still have enty of time left on the 60-year requirement.
And so, like I said, regulations low a lot of flexibility.
Next sl This is a picture of what was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. NW, (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 San Onofre Unit 1 on t left.
And currently, it is in SAFSTOR, but the condition of the site is that that is the reactor vessel when it was removed.
reactor vessel was seal up. It is presently sitting on a concrete pad.
And is the only remaining part of reactor in the entire building structure left on the site.
But it's still officially in SAFSTOR because they have not elected to submit the license termination plan at this time.
They're still within the 60
, but their plans are, as at San Onofre Unit 2 and 3, which when they begin those decommissionings then they'll submit t
license termination plan for San Onofre 1.
Let's go to the next slide.
se are large power reactors that have been decommissioned and had their licenses terminated.
And the licenses shrunk to
- ISFSI, dry storage container fuel onsite.
I want you to know that the decommission of these power reactors was done safely.
There f S no reason for it not to be done safely, and we're here to ensure that.
This work was performed safely the
- workers, for the
- public, and resulted in s
environmental conditions, also.
Let's go to the next sli I want to close with a couple pictures just to demonstrate that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 we have done this.
The licensees have done this, and the NRC has been there to safely monitor and regulate clean ups.
On your left is a picture of Main Yankee.
On the ght is a picture that I took of the greenfield where the reactor and structures were at one time.
And so, this site was released for unrestricted ease.
The next slide, please.
This is Yankee Rowe.
It completed decommissioning in 2007, and you can see the same results here.
It is a greenfield.
Next slide.
This is Big Rock Point.
It's located in Charlevoix, Michigan.
The site on the left is picture looking from the big rock, it does looking at the site. It's a very important symbol to the Native Americans up there.
And so, the picture on right is where the reactor was, looking back at the big rock.
And again, it's been restored back to the lake front property that it was in the beginning.
So, last slide. Again, I wanted to thank you.
Again, the NRC is here to make sure that decommissioning is conducted in a safe manner.
We're here to ensure workers' sa and the public safety, and to make sure that the environment is maintained.
Thank you.
MR.
0' BRIEN:
Thank you, Bruce.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 that, I'd I to turn it over to Rob Krsek.
As Rob indicated earl
, he is the current senior resident at the Kewaunee Nuclear Plant.
He's actually been up here as either a resident or senior resident for the last 10 years I believe.
And Rob will scuss reactor decommissioning inspection program that we plan at least over the next couple of Rob.
MR.
KRSEK:
Hi again.
My name is Rob Krsek.
I have been the senior resident inspector here at Kewaunee or at Point Beach since 2003.
As some of you know, the past, when a plant is operating, we do have two onsite resident inspectors that inspect the plant's day-to day activities as it goes on.
And we'll continue to do that, although to a lesser
- degree, commensurate with the activities that are onsite.
So that's what I'm going to be talking about to everyone today.
So the objectives of our inspection program are the same for an operating reactor as they are for a decommissioning reactor. It's to ensure the safety of the decommissioning workers, the members of the public, and t
environment throughout the decommissioning process.
So that's throughout the entire 60-year process.
We also ensure licensee implementation of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 decommission activities are conducted in accordance with all the NRC requirements.
And, prior to license termination, as Bruce had mentioned earl we do verify the residual radioactivity in the area and on the land is reduced to a
level that permits unrestricted release the property.
The focus of our inspect program, much like it is for the operating reactors, is to obtain ormation through rect observation the licensee's activities and the workers' activities, and also veri the licensee's act ties onsite.
And we do that with t use of onsite inspectors initi ly, which I'll be talking about more, and then region-based inspectors as t goes on.
We fy that licensee documents are implement and maintained as required by the NRC license.
The utility will still maintain a license throughout the entire process, until t license is terminated.
And
- then, we verify the licensee act ties, organization and controls are effect to provide reasonable assurance that decommissioning is conducted safely and in accordance with the requirements.
The region-based inspections are a
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And I'll cover those areas that we looked at, to see what it looks 1 The schedule and level of inspection effort that we partake in is based on the commissioning activities that are planned or performed.
So, as I mentioned earlier, while the plant's operating, there are two onsite resident inspectors.
Shortly ter the plant shutdown on May 7th, we will go down from two resident inspectors to one resident inspector in about the July time frame.
And then, I
will continue to rema onsite for approximately a year after the shutdown.
ter our office is closed onsite, what it will transition to is we will have region-based inspectors coming out of the Region III office. It's in Lisle, Illinois, right outside Chicago.
And those region based inspectors will be visiting the site, aga, commensurate with the activities that are going on onsite.
So, as activities are going on, we will have inspectors that are visiting the site from the regional off to do all the things that I talked about previous verify that the licensee is performing the decommissioning activities safely.
This just gives you an idea of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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For those on the phone, I will rattle them off.
The organization and management controls.
So we look at that as of our inspection activities.
Qual i ty assurance.
- Also, spent fuel storage and handli and Rhex is going to t
talk a little bit about that at the end.
Also, t maintenance and surveillance activities that the licensee has to continue to do on the equipment that remains.
We look at that.
Of course, radiation protection the workers and so radiation protection for the environment, looking at the radiological effluent and environment monitoring.
We so do inspections of security.
We also review the safety evaluations that are ongoing for changes that licensee is making at the plant.
We al so cont inue to inspect emergency preparedness, as the emergency preparedness requirements will still be effect after the plant shuts down.
Also, fire protection. Radioact waste packaging and transportation as parts the s e and components on the site are decommissioned and shipped offsite.
And then, we also still evaluate particular safety concerns or aspects or licensee performance that require increased NRC attention.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 Our inspection act ties are detailed by, it's a little bit different than the operating reactors.
It's detailed by what's called a master inspection plan.
That is published in what's led our inspection manual chapters.
Those inspection manual chapters real layout what the inspection program is for the dif rent phases of decommissioning.
And that inspection plan is developed on an annual basis.
It's a publicly available document that we send to the licensee and is assoc ed with the license number, and is available for public ewing.
And it goes through and details what inspections we're going to be doing, again sed on the act ties that are going on onsite.
Again, the I of inspection is pre anned and also tailored for the activities that the licensee is taking onsite.
So, if there I s periods of time where t
's little act ty, those would correspondent to periods of time of litt inspection.
If there's a lot of activity going onsite, those correspond to increased inspection.
With that, I'd like to turn it over to Rhex to talk about the spent fuel pool inspection program.
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EDWARDS:
Good evening.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 name is Rhex Edwards, and I'm a Region III inspector out of t Lisle office. You've heard us use the term ISFSI. That stands for independent spent fuel storage inst lation.
And what that is is that's an onsite dry fuel storage pad.
And t pad, itself, is a concrete structure.
NRC has inspected that structure, and uated licensee's ability to safely store fuel.
I, myself, perform those inspections. The pad contains dry 1 storage canisters which are licensed by the NRC.
And again, we onsite to observe them loading and conduct odic inspections.
Our inspections will continue for as long as is fuel stored on that dry fuel storage pad.
Our objectives are same.
Our mission is the same.
We need to ensure that the material is protected from threats, as well as the public and environment protected.
And, our inspectors are examining whether or not the licensee is maintaining their ISFSI to our standards and regulatory requirements.
And that involves all aspects of radiat ion sa quality assurancei remember those key cts Ron mentioned earlier.
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KRSEK:
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MR. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Rob.
purpose of tonight's meeting was to make sure that you had an opportunity to hear what the NRC is doing to continue its role in protecting public health
- safety, environment and common defense and security.
You've heard from a
number NRC staff regarding the activities that are going to be occurring shortly, the next few months, in the next few years, and over the time frame when the I icensee implements their decommissioning plan.
All the sl that were used today are available over on the side table, including contact information for the resident inspectors, project managers from headquarters t deal with both the operating reactor and decommissioning reactor, along with the other senters that are here.
- Also, in general, you can go to the NRC's public website, and find your way to the decommissioning area and gain similar ormation and additional information regarding activities we do here.
I want to thank you all again for coming.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 understand your concerns. We're going to take a short break here after I turn it over to Sarah to discuss the question and answer portion.
And we'll come back and do that.
I'll offer you that your comments are extremely important to us now and in the future, as we go through the decommissioning process to make sure we understand your concerns, and to make sure we get your feedback as to how we're doing our job.
With that, I'll turn it over to Sarah.
Sarah.
MS.
LOPAS:
Thank
- you, Ken.
- Okay, everybody, my name is Sarah, Sarah Lopas.
I'm going to be facilitating the question and answer period tonight.
I want to acknowledge the folks on the phone.
I hope guys can hear us.
There's about 10 of you on the line, and I promise we won't forget about you.
So, I'll speak to how you guys can part ipate in just a moment.
So I'm going to go over the ground rules for the question and answer period and the comment period. After that, like Ken said, we'll take a short break.
Perfect, second slide.
So, the question and answer riod is the t when you can get up and ask staf f whatever you'd like, ly.
Or just present a general comment.
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11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 your question or comment.
If you signed up when you came in today, that S great.
I have your name.
If you didn't, during the short break l you can just come up and see me, and add your name to the list.
11m going to evaluate how many folks we have signed UPI and see if I can put some time limits on ks.
We want to make sure that we hear everybody that wants to speak tonight.
The meeting goes until 9: 00 p. m.
but we can I
stay a bit later to make sure that we everybody here that wants to be heard.
I f you have a quest ion or comment that you, maybe I want to have it read aloud but you don/t l
want to stand up in front of everybody I that IS certainly fine.
We have some note over here that Joe will have I and you can just flag Joe down during course of the question and answer and you can write it down.
You don/t have to sign your name.
You can hand it back to Joe.
We can read it aloud, or we can just t it back with us.
We don't need to read it aloud tonight.
SOl that's certainly an option l as well.
out of order.
For the folks on the line what will l
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 that will do is I have my laptop, and I'll be able to see that you would like to speak.
And we'll be able to un-mute your phone line.
The operator is Amber.
Thank you, Amber, for ing on the line. So, folks on the line, when we take our break, make sure you stay on the line.
I think you might hear music for about five minutes, but stay on the line and we'll come back on in about five minutes.
John is our court reporter. He's there to make sure that we get a clean transcript of what everybody's saying tonight.
So, when you make your comment or you ask your question, you don't need to submit it again in writing to the NRC.
We have it recorded right there, and it will be in a transcript that you'll be able to read within 30 days after this meeting.
Because John's, you
- know, recording everything, it's really important only one person at a time speak, we're not interrupting each other. That you try to speak clearly and slowly.
And when you come up here, please start by introducing yourself.
If you have a tricky name, I might ask you to spell it out so John can get it accurately.
Next slide please.
Just a couple more things.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 for this group, but just a reminder to be courteous to folks.
I know that emotions might run high tonight but, you know, try to respectful to everybody in the room.
This is an NRC meeting, so please direct your comments and questions to the NRC.
If you have quest or comments Dominion, we encourage you to get in touch with their fice public
- fairs, or their publ affairs department.
But to night it will just be NRC's fol that will be, you know, answering your questions and taking your comments.
Okay, with that, let's take about a f minute break, maybe a little bit longer.
Let's just make it easy and say at a quarter of.
So, quarter or eight, and we will corne back and get started right o your quest and, if you haven't signed up, come up and see me.
I'll just be hanging around up here.
ks on the phone, stay put, we'll be back.
{Off the record.}
MS. LOPAS:
Let's go ahead and start with Thomas Anderson.
MR.
ANDERSON:
Good evening ladies and gentlemen.
My name is Thomas Anderson.
I've president of a local sa ty consulting firm, West Shore Safety.
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But I realize Dominion is probably going to hire an outside contractor to, you know, do your decommissioning and tear this building all down and that.
But my concern is that it has been such an economic impact to the area, that I would like to see a proposal made that 25 percent of that work would go to local contractors, not just outs contractors, and even to DBE contractors or minority contractors, so that they, too, can have a benefit from the tearing down of this structure.
MR.
O'BRIEN:
Thank you, sir, for your comment.
MR. ANDERSON:
Thank you.
MS. LOPAS:
Thank you, Thomas.
I might butcher this last name, so I apologize in advance.
Tony Jeanquart.
MR. JEANQUART: Just some, probably, minor questions, or I think nothing is too minor when you start talking about decommissioning of a nuc plant that was built some 40 years ago.
I was involved in that plant construction. Going back to thinking about spent fuel storage, how long will it take before the spent fuel is offloaded from the wet fuel storage into dry storage?
That's one of my questions.
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How long will those monuments be sitting on the property site?
I see how these plants that have been decommissioned, they look like open prairie grass sitting there right now.
How many years did it take to get to that point?
I think we're all concerned about that because of the need, well not only the cost of revenue and jobs, but the concern about what are we going to be paying for in the future for our, maybe it was a mistake to have a nuclear plant.
MR. O'BRIEN:
Rhex, could you cover the questions regarding spent fuel?
MR. EDWARDS:
Yes sir. Sir, I appreciate your question, thank you.
And I heard several, so I'm going to try and address all those.
And my colleagues, please help me out if I miss something.
rst question was how long until the fuel moves from the pool into dry fuel storage.
That depends.
There's a minimum cooling time that the site has to let lapse before they can put it in dry fuel storage.
That's about five years.
So they'd have to wait at least f years before they could offload the into dry I storage.
And then, it depends on some other tors.
The next stion I heard was how long is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE" N,W, (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D,C, 20005-3701 www,nealrgross,com
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 the ISFSI present. That gets into the decommissioning discussion we heard, we talked about earlier.
The site has 60 years to decommission the ility, and that includes dry fuel storage pad located there.
The plan is to have that fuel removed from site within the 60-year period.
It doesn't mean that they'll take the whole time, but they do have 60 years to do that, as Bruce mentioned.
And t also is how long to the greenfield was one of your questions.
And that depends.
They do have 60 years to do it.
As far as the financial questions, what would t public have to pay for?
Our regulat require that the site show us that they have sufficient financial funds to sa ly store that fuel for a period of 60 years.
And then, also be able to show that they can remove it from the site with adequate funds.
Hopefully, that addresses your questions, and I open it up to the others.
MR. 0' BRIEN:
Go ahead, Rob.
You have one more thing you'd like to add.
MR. KRSEK:
I just have one more ific on the question of the current licensing plans for moving t fuel out of the pool into dry cask storage.
The current plan that the licensee submitted to us has that being completed by 2020, by the year 2020.
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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. O'BRIEN:
Approximately seven years from now.
Thank you.
MS. LOPAS:
Okay, thank you.
So, we're going to take a phone call right now.
Amber, it looks like we have Robert on the line.
Can we un-mute him, and we might need some help with MR. LEYSE:
You can read it, I think.
If not, I'll it.
MS. LOPAS:
Go ahead and speak up, sir, and maybe Ken if you could help by putting the microphone near the phone if it doesn't get feedback.
Okay, go ahead Robert.
Speak loud, please.
MR. LEYSE:
Can you hear me?
MR. O'BRIEN:
Yes.
MR. LEYSE:
Okay, I'll read it. Robert H.
- Leyse, a member of Professional Reactor Operators Society, and American Nuclear Soci comments as
- follows, and these comments are not on behalf either organization.
Two items, one minute.
Item one, in the future, NRC should reveal, if the spent fuel pool recommendations of Fukushima task force will be implemented at Kewaunee.
Reference, ADAMS ML111861807, Page 58 of 96.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 36 of investigations of zirconium f during spent fuel locus.
NRC must include a water environment for those experiments, instead of the air only environment of work that has been only minimally disclosed.
Reference ADAMS ML113140453, Pages three, four, five and six of 23.
Thank you.
MS. LOPAS:
All right, thank you, Robert.
We appreciate that comment.
MR. O'BRIEN:
So let me respond a little bit, if I could, that what the gentleman is referring to is the NRC undertook a number of activities post-Fukushima to try and answer immediate questions, and then long-term questions regarding whether and what types of changes might be necessary to address issued identified as part of the Fukushima disaster.
One of those activities, as he appropriately mentioned to you is we're doing research into issues associated with potential accidents associated with the spent fuel pool.
Those are ongoing right now.
We do not have results that I am aware of right now.
We're a public agency, so when we get those results, we will publish them in the NRC's document management system called ADAMS.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 37 handle that as it relates to the regulations, I
believe that's also still under consi ration in terms of whether we should or should not apply those requirements to a plant that's in the process of decommissioning.
I do not have that current answer, and we'll make sure as a part of response to this question that we include it as part our oral comments at the end, unless one of the other members up here have it.
Rob?
MR.
KRSEK:
Right now, the licensee, they're plans do have implementation, and there's discussion with the NRC on implementing the spent fuel pool recommendations under the Fukushima, that order that was referred to.
MR.
O'BRIEN:
And
- then, the final question, the final comment was that a request that the NRC consider a different of environment for the experiments associated with the spent fuel instrumentation and the potent 1
for accidents associated with it.
I will feed that comment back to headquarters so that they have that.
MR. LEYSE:
Thank you.
MR. O'BRIEN:
You're welcome, sir.
Thank you for the questions.
MS. LOPAS:
Thanks for calling in, Robert.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 38 MR. LEYSE:
I've another one, but I don't want to suck up your time.
MS. LOPAS:
Can you hang on?
We're going to go through everybody
- once, and then we're definitely going to go for more questions.
So, if you can hang tight, we'll get back to you, all right?
MR. LEYSE:
Thank you.
MS. LOPAS:
All right.
Okay, let's from David Hardtke, if David's here.
Just a reminder to introduce yourself and speak into the microphone so the ks on phone can hear you, too.
Mr. HARDTKE:
Good evening.
My name is David Hardt I'm chairman of the Town of Carlton.
I have a couple issues.
A statement was just made that that waste will be removed within 60 of that decommissioning period.
But yet, President Obama's blue ribbon commission report states in there t
the waste will be stored onsite for 100 to 300 years.
So, which is correct answer?
I have kids and grandkids in the area.
And I think we're leaving them a big mess.
I think 60 years is way too long to take these plants down.
That's prime lake frontage where the plant is.
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And for that land to stay off 2
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11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 the tax rolls, penalizing the Town of Carlton, Kewaunee County and the Kewaunee School System. Thank you.
MR. 0' BRIEN:
Thank you, sir. Rhex, would you like to cover the issue associated with the fuel, in general?
Well, let me touch it first, and see if I
make a mistake that you can help me with.
In general, the NRC licenses a facility, and requires a facility to manage their spent fuel from the day we license them all the way to the time it's removed.
Currently, the NRC has regulations requiring the licensee to complete its decommissioning activities in 60 years.
The comment, or you know, think brought up a very good point.
Things change over time.
We can't tell you what the situation's going to 10, 15, or 20 years as it relates to other requirements or other changes that the government may place upon us, or as a part our requirements.
Right now, our requirements are that the licensee be able to, and complete removal of all activities associated with decommissioning within 60 years.
And that's the activity we'll ensure is enforced, unless we're told otherwise by Congress and the President through laws.
Did I miss anything, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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MR. EDWARDS:
No.
All I would add would be as long as the is stored on the site, the NRC will be there to inspect it to ensure that it/s sa and it/s safe for publ ic and the environment.
MS. LOPAS:
Okay I great. Thank you l guys.
All I
next let/s from Steve Tadi Mr. TADISCH:
Hi l I'm Steve sch.
I'm a resident of the Town Carlson l plus 11m on the town board and 11m a town supervisor.
And, as I go l
through this report I see how it/s outl that the I
power plant is designated for all this money through the decommissioning fund.
One of my questions is where is the local government and county government outl in this decommissioning fund?
Because wasn l t supposed to cost us money to decommission plant.
Whereas I now we have to provide an assessor to assess property to set a value at it whi is agreeable to Dominion.
And plus like you made comment of 50 to 60 years it/s l
going to be there.
So that is going to not allow our tax roll to grow on land during this time period.
So, to our local municipalities, that is a burden on us.
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And re we have bills ling up on our desk for all t
s stuff. So, that's my question tonight, and thank you for your answer.
MR.
0' BRIEN:
I appreciate it, Steve.
Overarchingly, the decommissioning fund is put together and required to ensure that the ility can be properly and safely decommissioned.
It does not, however, and the NRC's rules and regulations do not cover, economic issues between the operator of the plant and the local governments.
That's a separate activity that will have to be engaged.
Our focus is exclusively on the safety and the security of that ility. So, while I appreciate and I understand your issues that you've raised here, that's, unfortunately, outside the NRC's regulatory processes.
MS. LOPAS:
Okay, thank you, Ken.
We're going to go to the phone again.
Amber, it looks like we have Steven Dolley.
If we could get Steven un muted.
Hi, Steven.
Can you hear us? Steven, are you there?
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 MR. DOLLEY:
Yes.
Can you hear me?
MS. LOPAS:
Yes we can.
Go ahead.
MR. DOLLEY:
Thank you very much.
My name is Steven Dolley.
I'm a reporter with Platts, we're an energy news service.
And Dominion has said it has no plans to restart Kewaunee, and operate it again.
But, if they should change their mind, would they be able to return their license to an operating license status through NRC processes prior to the 1 icense termination point that you mentioned? And, if so, how would that process work, and that review work on NRC's end?
Thank you.
MS. LOPAS:
Okay, thank you, Steven.
So, the question is if Kewaunee wants to operate it again, how would that work?
Do we let that happen?
MR. O'BRIEN:
We've had instances in the past where licensees have decided to stop construction, stop other activities associated with their reactors, and they have come back at a later date and decided to change that answer.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 down the road, they would also have to submit a request ~o the NRC, and demonstrate to the NRC why it would be okay to change t license back to an operating license.
I'm not aware of any previous instance where that has happened, but that would be the normal process for making a change to any license the NRC oversees.
MS. LOPAS:
Okay, thank you, Ken.
MR. O'BRIEN:
You're welcome.
MS. LOPAS:
Thank you, Steven.
Ken, if you could speak into your microphone a little bit.
You are very loud, but you're not getting the microphone for some reason.
Next we have Linda Sinkulu.
I'm probably but that name, too.
Sorry, Linda.
MS.
SINKULU:
I'm Linda Sinkulu, clerk of the Town of Carlson.
One of my questions is what is the current balance the decommissioning fund, and is there enough money the nuclear plant to be complete, have it complete?
Another one is a follow-up to Steve, we're to have lawyer fees and everything for this township for this decommissioning process to see what our, what we need to do as a township.
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Like the breakdown of the reactor head.
Can it be put in those dry storage containment and be stored there?
MR. 0' BRIEN:
Thank you very much for your questions, Linda.
I'm going to actually do this in reverse, because that will give Rhex an opportunity to answer the last two while I work on the first two, or t
last one while I work on the first two.
Rhex.
MR.
EDWARDS:
- Yes, I
understand your question is can any other components be stored in dry storage casks, and the answer to that is yes.
It has to be within approved contents.
There are certain requirements as to what can be stored in the pad, but it is not exclusive to spent nuclear fuels is the simple answer to it.
MR. O'BRIEN:
Thanks, Rhex.
Your other questions were how much is current in the decommissioning trust fund.
And the answer, based upon my staff around me, is approximately $578 million.
And then, the final answer is will there be enough, and what I'll do there is I'll say the answer is that we evaluate that, when the plant is operating, on an every two-year basis by a formula that we have to ensure that the licensee has sufficient resources.
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When they shut down the plant and go into a ommissioning mode, we actually do that same every year to make sure they have sufficient to be able to address all the decommissioning costs are required. Hopefully, that answers your tion.
MR. EDWARDS:
I would like to add, so, to my response that you cannot mix materials.
So you couldn't have fuel mixed with some other of MS. LOPAS:
Okay, thank you guys.
Next t's ar from Shane Greisbach.
MR. GREISBACH:
I will pass.
MS. LOPAS: You'll pass, all right. Let's see who's after Shane.
We have Jennifer Brown.
Would r still like to make a comment?
MS.
BROWN:
Hi.
My name is Brown.
I'm with the Kewaunee County Corporation.
Thank you for being I just want, I have a general quest on some information that I
heard from you tonight.
's some comments in her about socioeconomics, and I know you probably can't make any comments in to the economic impact.
But, obviously, we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w.
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There are some comments the PSDAR here
- about, ifically regarding, you know, t impact on our local taxi entities.
And then, obviously, the support to the local economy.
And then, there's also some specific comments about the impacts are not destabilizing, and that's according to the generic environmental impact statement.
I'm wondering if you can explain that a little bit; how the NRC reviews that.
And then, secondly, you talked about going from SAFSTOR to DECON back to SAFSTOR.
Are there additional reviews in terms of socioeconomic reviews or do you sort re review that in terms of the generic environmental impact statement?
Is that something that you'll revisit by the NRC?
MR. O'BRIEN:
I'll take a shot at that, and I'll see if my staff around me want to correct something that I've articulated.
In general, there's a
generic impact statement associated with decommissioning for plants.
And then, we require the licensees, as a part of their putting together of a plan, to address anything that's unique and specific to their area.
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And any time the licensee makes a change to their decommissioning activities report, we'll again review that, those changes to see if they make any changes in the activit s we've done before.
So, we'll continuously review as they make modifications to that report.
And now I'll ask the staff on either side of me if there's any other additional clarification you want to add.
Speak loudly.
MR.
SMITH:
The generic environmental impact statement, the EI S, basel ine for review for many of the standards.
In some cases, it's comparing it to the operational conditions of the facility.
And, in some cases, it compares it to the status of the area before the ility existed.
Socioeconomic, it compares it to before reactor was there, what was the socioeconomic impact, and after t reactor is gone.
And so, that's the way the GElS is structured.
MR. O'BRIEN:
And let me just add, if you don't mind, Ted, and make sure I'm correct here.
So, the change from when it's operating to when it's going through decommissioning wouldn't, necessarily, be evaluated unless it was dramatically dif rent than before it came here and after it left.
I'm getting two nodding heads for those that are on the phone.
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Sarah.
MS.
LOPAS:
- Okay, next we have R.C.
Nelson, if R.C.'s here and would like to speak.
MR. NELSON:
Good evening.
My name's Rick Nelson.
I'm a ret electrical engineer.
I have 31 questions.
MS. LOPAS:
All right, we might count the time a little bit, but go it.
MR. NELSON:
But, I already sent some of them in, and I'll leave some of the ones I'm not going to ask before the NRC.
MR. O'BRIEN:
We appreciate that, Rick, thank you.
MR.
NELSON:
You stated earlier that there's $578 million available in the decommissioning fund.
On May 7th Kewaunee plans to shut down.
In accordance with the purchase power agreement, they're obligated to pay for replacement power to the end of the year.
I'm just curious if the decommissioning fund is going to be taxed to pay that loss of generation.
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0' BRIEN:
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MR.
NELSON:
You mentioned earlier the Fukushima responses for spent fuel pool.
There are also some attributes on Fukushima for the restoration of offsite power because you have to declare your diesel generator's not available.
Would the same expectations for operating plants be passed on to Kewaunee after shutdown?
MR. O'BRIEN:
Normally, when a plant goes into decommissioning, and I'll let the staff around me correct me if I make an error here.
Normally, when the plant goes into decommissioning, they would come up with and propose to the NRC a new set of technical specification requirements that they would then rely upon as they were going through decommissioning.
And we'd evaluate those to ensure that there was adequate sa ty provided.
MR. NELSON:
One of the delays in Dominion announcing this earlier was the need for MISO to perform a study on the grid reliability.
In response to NUC001, there are cert n
er for nuclear generation and the grid operator to maint n a certain voltage level to ensure the ability of the plant to safely shut down to safely mitigate an accident.
In a public release, MISO sa sure, go ahead.
Has there NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w.
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MR.
O'BRIEN:
I think to get to ifics of the detail of the transmission, the grid transmission's evaluation, you'd have to go direct to But, they provided assurances as part of to the licensee.
And it's a requirement, as the shutdown process, that they would have voltage and ability here to maint n what was nece for the grid without the Kewaunee ant.
MR. NELSON:
Over the last few I've irly intimate with that operation, a
number of years, MISO and the ATe has lobbied on ir If reliability to make sure that the Kewaunee and Point Beach outages don't overlap because voltage issues and the stability of the I now, we're going to have one unit not So, just reading the publ ic not i f icat ion that that is is thorough raises some questions in my mind on the amount of review and analysis the last ten years.
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O'BRIEN:
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No, that's a comment.
MR. O'BRIEN:
I'd offer
, obviously with your background, you'd be well versed to be able to talk to the transmission entity, MISO, and get the additional information.
MR. NELSON:
Some of the ot folks here have mentioned similar questions.
I've been in the power industry since 1978, and ctures you show of Fermi 1, Main Yankee and the i
, I used to si t right outside of the Fermi l' s reactor, so I recognize that picture.
But, when you look at
- Rock, and the other pictures, to me I'm really disappointed in the fact that the e that we have presented in the public document lasts 60 years.
If these other plants can with a schedule which seems to be, maybe accel I would think that the public would want Dominion to do the same thing.
- And, unfortunately, there isn't any elected officials here to raise their hand.
But I know, for one, that I don't want my grandchil and these people to be driving past those dry storages for 60 years.
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One of the things that's very, very unique NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NRC as an independent regulatory agency, and dif rent from many other regulatory agencies, is when we give a license to a facility to operate, we hold them responsible for taking and achieving the end result, and we don't dictate that to them.
So, in this case, our regulations in their license allow them 60 years to do that.
And so, therefore, we've already that perspective and that requirement.
And, therefore, we allow them to make the determination based upon a number of factors, most of which are not related to sa ty, as to when they would Ii to decommission.
So I appreciate your comment.
I understand it, but MR. NELSON:
I have plenty others, and -
MS. LOPAS:
How about one more, and then we've got a couple more signed up, and we're going to go back around for seconds and thirds, so you can come back up.
MR. NELSON:
I'll sit down.
I'm good.
MS. LOPAS:
Okay.
MR. O'BRIEN:
Thank you, sir.
MS. LOPAS:
You can come back, though, in a moment.
Thank you, Rick.
Can we hear from Claire Thompson?
Ms.
THOMPSON:
Cl re Thompson with NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w.
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Most my questions have already been answered l but I wanted to reiterate I think a lot of the comments that I have heard prior to this meeting in our desire to see that site return to greenfield status.
And I
wanted to know I very specificallYI if there were safety concerns with accelerating the time 1 the decommissioning of the plant?
MR. O/BRIEN:
re are no safety concerns with accelerating.
It/s a function of a lot of other issues.
As I think Bruce articulated you can do l
decommissioning of the ant from the day you submit the request to the NRC and we approve that action and l
the course of action l up to and including the 60 years.
I thinkl Bruce correct mel you said about 50 years l it takes about seven to 10 years to actually implement that process.
So you/d have to actually start somewhere early '50 / s.
But is no safety limit to being e
to do it. That/s why we allow the licensees when the l
I propose to decommiss to be able to do it any time over that 60-year There are a large number of factors that the licensees may take into considerat in making that decision.
But safety is not one of them from the NRC/s ive.
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THOMPSON:
And can you give us an example of some of other plants, how long it taken to decommission plants?
MR. O'BRIEN:
I'm going to turn that over to somebody that ly knows what they're tal about in that particu area.
MR. WATSON:
As I said before, typi a plant that's in a true what we call DECON or decommissioning status where they want to do decommissioning ly, it typically takes seven to 10 years.
That would so include that year or two of preparation work, and getting the plant ready decommissioning; ining systems, making elect cal isolations to make it for workers to, you know, disconnect the plant, pumps, pipes and other But actual schedule is really to the licensee.
One example I can give you is Wisconsin, there's LaCrosse Boiling Water Reactor, it's in LaCrosse, Wisconsin.
That plant was in SAFSTOR for I want to think 15 years.
And in the last few
- years, they've been in a
very active decommissioning mode, where they removed the reactor vessel and disposed that.
They removed the fuel and put it dry storage.
And now, it looks like they're kind settling back into their, I'll NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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And
, s, principally, driven by economics of how they want to spend money.
The other aspect that I'll bring up in schedul these decommissionings is, especially with some t
ones that we've al completed, in the 1990's and into 2000, and I can't remember the exact date, but one of the principal reasons for doing prompt decommissioning has been also driven by access to be able to dispose of the low level waste.
And so, many of those utilit s that did decommission early 2000's were by the fact that they dn't to continue to of what we call Class Band C low level waste
- Barnwell, South Carolina.
So, that was another economic factor that they looked at to being able to clean up the site, and actual dispose of all the mat also MR. O'BRIEN:
And I'll just have a little bit for you on dates.
I happened to work for the State of Wis at the time LaCrosse was operating and made the ision to shut down.
I believe it was in 1986 or 1987 when they originally did it.
So that would be approximately 25 years ago, theyfre still in the process of doing decommissioning.MS. THOMPSON:
What is the formula for obtaining the difference NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
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$578 million current balance and the $900 million estimate in 2012 dollars?
MR.
O'BRIEN:
I donI t have I we have a formula we use to determine whether the amount of monies available are appropriate and sufficient.
I don't have intimate knowledge that off the top my head, so we'll have to take question and get back to you, as a part of our minutes of this meeting, to provide information.
It is stated in the regulat
, I'm just not as familiar with it.
MS. THOMPSON:
In PSDAR, it suggests that you ewed a scenario one in terms of budget.
Have you ewed other scenarios, and were those scenarios related to time
?
MR. O'BRIEN:
I'm I missed that question.
Could you start again me?
MS.
THOMPSON:
In decommissioning report, t was a scenario one label on many of the tables were related to the budget of the 60-year time frame.
Have you, as a group, reviewed the other scenarios were considered, and was the time frame different those scenarios?
MR.
O'BRIEN:
document that you're talking the post shutdown decommissioning activities report, that's a document put together by NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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Part of the reason you saw that scenario is because they're required to demonstrate that the cost that they anticipate it will be to decommission, and they're required to demonstrate that they continue to have adequate funds for decommissioning.
So that's not something, the NRC wouldn't look at different scenarios.
The NRC, instead, would look at do they have sufficient funds based upon what they described to us as their method of decommissioning.
So, a
little different from the NRC's perspective.
MS. THOMPSON:
Thank you.
MR. 0' BRIEN:
Thank you very much for your questions.
MS. LOPAS:
Thank you, Claire. I'll touch base with you so that one of our folks can get in touch with you about that question that we can't answer right here off the top of our heads.
The next person I have here on the list, and then we'll go back around for seconds and thirds, and if anybody on the line, remember on the phone you press *1, and I'll be able to un-mute you.
We have Ken Lionarons.
MR. LIONARONS:
Hi.
I'm Ken Lionarons.
It's L-I o-n-a-r-o n-s.
I'm a resident of Algoma, Kewaunee County, and my thunder's been stolen because NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.* N.W.
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had.
Prima ly, the tech specs and the condition of the plant and the rules that are going to govern the safety of the plant post decommissioning, especially the next seven years.
And my concern is that the post Fukushima mods or any other new regs that come up that we're in step with those to make sure we don't have new hazard that's unrecognized in a ant that's not operating.
So, I have conf idence in the NRC and the licensee, but these things somet s have a way of getting out of
- hand, and maybe things slip between the cracks.
Espec lly on the dry storage, on the fuel storage, the zirc fire, instrumentat in the fuel pool, flood concerns all need to be addressed.
- Also, the availability service water and rna enance of the heat sink.
But even more to the point than that, small items like with tornados and meteorological events, keeping the site clean so we don't have an issue with the substation or with the offsite power, we don't have pieces of metal.
That we have a full compliment onsite.
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Especially with a reduced staff.
In the same mode iness, EP's.
Are we going to maintain the same kind EP schedule for drills and involving the public ty drills and security challenges?
We still fuel onsite, and I believe the threat's still going to be the same as it was before.
But, I probably would like to see the EP presence the same as it was in the past, including the operation of the sirens, notification, so those things are still in order.
I'm also, I rs here, a little, don't want to say annoyed; it's too strong a word.
But I think it's unfortunate t we're waiting so long to do the final decommiss ng.
I really don't see any reason why we should it out, you know, a total for 60 years.
I can understand, on a multi-unit site, how we might want to wait to do all three units together because of the economic impact.
But for a single site, it's dollars now or dollars later. And having a non functioning piece of equipment there with Ii material in it, no matter how slight, I still it presents somewhat of a hazard and, certainly, an eyesore, and a tax issue for the Town of son.
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I do iate it.
Thanks.
MR. O'BRIEN:
Thank you.
Let me try and touch on a few of t The licensee still s
1 the same requirements today that they'll have a month from now as a part their technical specifications and other things as if they were operating. Until licensee submits to t NRC a request for changes to their technical ifications and their license requirements, they still have to follow the ones t currently exist in manner that they exist.
So, example, ensuring that they available offsite power.
Ensuring that they reliable conditions.
Those sorts of things they'd have to.
In the two areas that you articulat on, the security rements and the emergency preparedness requirements, the NRC has regulat that require any time a licensee would like to make a change to those two areas, they have to do an evaluation to determine if they believe it would be a decrease in effectiveness.
And if they termine it would be a decrease in effectiveness, they have to come to the NRC and ask for our approval be they're allowed to make it.
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But that's something, as a part of our routine inspection activities, that are normally accomplished by, right now, in part, by the resident inspectors and also, in part, by regional special inspectors.
So both of those are there as part of that process.
I would anticipate, to be very frank with you, that the licensee will be looking to make changes to t programs that are in place right now as they go
- ong, and the relative hazards at the ility decrease.
It's, there is a much smaller concern for accidents and other aspects of response for the plant as they shut plant down, as they remove the fuel from the core.
And then, as the aged fuel ages.
So, I expect there will be changed proposed, recommended, sent to the NRC for ask for approval.
That's not inconsistent with what other licensees have done over the course.
But that's a continuing evaluation process by the NRC to make sure, again, public health and safety is maintained, the environment's protected, and the security of the material is inspected.
We're on the case, and we're going to stay on the case all the way until the end.
MR. LIONARONS:
Okay, thank you.
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Thank you.
MS. LOPAS:
Okay.
That's the end of the list that I have of folks signed up.
So, if
's anybody else that wants to speak, go ahead and raise your hand, and make your way up to the podium.
Go ahead.
Just remember to re-roduce yourself before you start.
MR. TADISCH:
I'm Steve Tadisch from the Town of ton.
I think, Rob, I can direct s
question to you.
You've been the NRC inspector out there for 10 years you said?
MR. KRSEK: That's correct. Between Point Beach and MR. O'BRIEN:
Rob, could you get near the mic?
MR. TADISCH:
My question is since they've been, received a license to run for 20 years, the plant is in what kind of condition? And would it meet requirements after the 20 year period, because I guess the statement was made one time that that is excellent shape yet.
And maybe you can comment on s because you're a daily inspector there.
Thank you.
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The current, what NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w.
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9 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 we call material condition or condition of the plant at Kewaunee, which myself and my staff members walk every day is in excellent condition.
And with the license extension that was granted to plant for 20 years, what that means is that the NRC has determined that the plant could be run an additional 20 years.
And so, the licensee would have had programs in place to continue operating.
Does that answer your question, Steve?
MS. LOPAS:
Alfred Kohnle.
MR. KOHNLE:
I'm Alfred
, assessor the Town of Carlton.
When power plane was built, it was said that it's back to a
ield in 60 years.
Well, they built a number of exterior buildings since that time.
Are those building included in the greenfield effect?
MR. O'BRIEN:
Our understanding MR. KOHNLE:
And MR.
O'BRIEN:
Go ahead, I'm sorry.
So ahead, you can finish.
I'm MR. KOHNLE:
Okay, the second question is will other companies be allowed to bring the dry casks to the Carlton or the Kewaunee plant for storage of the dry casks?
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MR. EDWARDS:
Sure, to answer your second question will other companies be allowed to transport ir spent fuel to Kewaunee.
would be a consolidated interim storage facility at that point.
That would not be an independent spent fuel storage lation.
would not be rmissible ir current 1 I'm sorry, did somebody say something?
MR. O'BRIEN:
No, you're fine.
Go ahead.
MR. EDWARDS:
I'm sure you've read various reports out there where recommendations are made. All of those recommendations and proposals can be made, but no action can be taken wi NRC review and approval.
MR. O'BRIEN:
And your first question was would all the out buildings that the licensee built since it was originally constructed be luded in that process.
The NRC's process for decommissioning, generically, not include any of buildings are outs the fence the facility, because those are all additional facilities are not a part of the operation the p
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And if they wanted them to remain at site.
When we talk about greenfield, that's a decision by a licensee to take care of things that are normally considered within the protected area the plant.
However, many licensees, to very frank with you, make the decision to take t entire site back to that state of af rs.
But
's not a NRC requirement, specifically.
And
- then, even the definition of greenfield, that's not an NRC requirement either.
And I'll ask Bruce to talk about that for just a moment.
MR. WATSON:
The buildings that are outside of what I'll call the reactor footprint, they are not radiologically impacted by the operation of the plant.
And the utility will verify that they are in those status.
When you go to greenf d, it means that we're removing the reactor footprint and all the radiological hazards and residual activity associated with that area, which is actually the whole site, when you look at it.
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MR. KOHNLE:
Thanks.
MR. O'BRIEN:
Thank you for the question.
MR. WATSON:
I would add one more thing.
We have the Trojan ant which also built a large office and training facility at ir site.
And they were looking at leasing that out for economic need.
MS. LOPAS:
Okay, thank you. Anybody else want to come up to the podium?
Any t questions or comments?
And that/s for anybody on t phone line l too.
A reminder to ss *1 if you want to make a comment or ask a quest ion if you 1 re on the phone.
It/s Rick l againl right?
MR. NELSON:
Yes.
Rick Nelson l in.
MR. 0 1 BRIEN: Your microphone, I thinkl is off.
MR.
NELSON:
I have a
couple NRC quest Has NRC considered the Dominion choice to shut down one of its merchant nuclear plants as a leading indicator to the other nuclear utilities with merchant plants?
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So, I'm just curious as to the NRC's opi on that this may be a leading indicator on the merchant side of nuclear.
MR. 0' BRIEN:
The NRC has a very fantastic that it sits in as an independent regulatory body.
Whether 1
104 currently operating nuclear power plants operate, or whether they all shut down, the NRC's only focus is on safety.
So t question you're ng is outside our purview.
We only consider, we only look at, we only make sure of the operation of any power plant or any use of radioactive materials is done safely.
So financial question or leading edge questions, it's beyond our atory responsibility or purview.
MR. NELSON:
So, t
would reside wi the DOE, then?
MR. O'BRIEN:
You'd have to go and look at, the Department of Energy, I lieve it's function includes promotion of different aspects of uses of different types of energy.
But I wouldn't choose to speak for the Department of Energy.
MR. NELSON:
second comment I have, then, is related to that.
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MR. O'BRIEN:
The latter part of, I think, that question was actually directed towards the utilities as opposed to the NRC.
And the first part of that question, I'll tell you that the NRC is a fantastic organization because we're independent.
And, to be very frank with you, that's a key attribute when we have inspectors at sites.
And I'm not going to, you know, be a little light on this one.
I was a resident inspector for 11 years my career, three of those here at this plant.
I spent eight years, seven years, excuse me I
have to apologize, at a facility that used to be regulated by the Department of Energy.
We gained great credibil i ty and great focus by only having to be concerned about safety.
It's outside of our purview, and our inspectors don't even have to consider those other factors, which allows them to really be focused on the things that are important to the people in the community, the people at the plant, and the United States, as a whole, to be very frank with you.
I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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MR. NELSON:
Thank you.
MR. O'BRIEN:
Thank you, sir.
MR. NELSON:
And now that you mention you were at Kewaunee, I think I gave you a tour in 2010 in the summer of the substation.
MR. O'BRIEN:
You're absolutely correct, you did.
And I wasn't going to mention that, but yes.
MS. LOPAS:
David, did you want to come up again?
Just roduce yourself again.
MR. HARDTKE:
I'm Dave Hardtke, chairman of the Town of ton.
The State of Nevada was to receive $20 million to store the high level nuclear waste.
And they threw it out because they d it was unsafe and $20 llion not enough to do it.
Why is the Town of Carlton Kewaunee County forced to sit on our share of s country's nuclear waste for nothing?
And I know it's out of your of expertise or regulation or whatever you want to 1
it. But go back to Washington, DC and tell them to at least give the Town Carlton and Kewaunee County our share for storing our share of nuclear waste.
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I appreciate your comment, Dave.
And as a Wisconsinite, even though I don't get to live in the State of Wisconsin anymore because of where my job is located, I understand and appreciate your perspective.
Like Rob t who's here today and lives in the communitYt I used to live in the same community, and I still say I'm from Wisconsin.
I work out of the Chicago office t and so that would be not my location.
But all headquarters staff up here would tell you that that's not within our purview.
That wet again, we focus exclusively on safetYt which allows us a great deal of freedom to make sure we're doing the right thing all the time, outside of what other forces may try and blow the wind one way or another.
So I appreciate your comment, Dave.
I'm not, I'm not trying to minimize it. I understand your perspective but, unfortunately fort probably for you and others, it's outside of our realm of ability to do anything about that.
I apologize.
MS. LOPAS:
Okay, Ambert can we un-mute Robert Leyse again.
MR. LEYSE:
Robert Leyse is on.
Can you hear me.
MR. O'BRIEN:
Yes we can, sir.
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Good.
I'll keep this brief.
I understand that the spent fuel pool will be in operation five to seven years? Now, during that time, the containment building is going to be functioning, I guess, just as if the plant itself was producing power.
And you can comment on that on some point.
And the other question I have is, and this will take a little bit of research and a response later.
I'd like to know about leak grade testing of the huge containment.
When was this last completed, and you know, what were the results?
And you anticipate, regulation-wise, that any such leak tests will be required as long as there's fuel in the spent fuel pool?
And thank you.
MR. O'BRIEN:
Thank you, sir.
I'll let Mr. Krsek, who's a senior resident onsite, answer that question to begin with.
MR.
KRSEK:
Sir, to answer your first question, on May 7th when the plant is shut down, all the fuel is going to be removed from the reactor building, or the containment building.
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Could you repeat that about the containment building?
I missed that.
MR. KRSEK:
So, the containment building will no longer contain radiated fuel.
licensee will no longer able to -
MR. LEYSE:
Oh, outside of the containment building?
MR. KRSEK:
The-MR.
O'BRIEN:
Robert, did you ask the question of whether or not the spent fuel pool is located inside or outside the containment building?
MR. LEYSE:
Yeah.
MR. KRSEK:
The spent fuel pool is located outside the containment building.
MR. LEYSE:
Okay, I'm done.
Thank you.
MR. KRSEK:
It's a good question.
MR. O'BRIEN:
Thank you, sir.
MS.
LOPAS:
Well, I'm glad that was an easy one.
Amber, can we go to Matthew Gore who's so on the line here.
Matthew.
Can you hear us?
MR. GORE:
Hi, yes I can hear you, thank you.
I have a couple questions about the trust fund and how, what that can cover.
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My question around that is what determines whether they get that waiver?
If they don't receive that waiver to use the trust fund to cover dry fuel costs, are they required to set aside separate funds for, or how does that work, if not?
MS. LOPAS:
Okay, so let me try, I'm going to repeat your question cause you were a little quiet here.
So Matthew's asking can the decommissioning trust fund be used to cover the storage, t dry storage, the dry cask storage's spent fuel that
- happens, I
- guess, outside decommissioning, right?
MR. FEINTUCH:
That's a licensing action.
They've filed an, okay, sorry. This is Karl Feintuch.
They, the subject which you speak is an exemption request, it's a licensing action that MR.
O'BRIEN:
I don't want you to move away, Karl.
I'm moving it closer to you.
MR.
FEINTUCH:
I don't want to do feedback.
MR. O'BRIEN:
No, you're fine.
You can get as close as you'd like.
We'll correct the feedback.
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FEINTUCH:
So, we this licensing action, and it's under our review.
We don't a decision yet on that, but it will involve people, both financial and attorneys ation.
Part of my work is to involve the te reviewers that would be knowledgeable in those part ar areas.
So, I don't have any comment on it, ot than the t
that you can see that as one of the public documents.
MR. SMITH:
I want to one follow on, and you can correct me here if I'm wrong.
MS.
LOPAS:
Introduce yourself,
- Ted, MR. SMITH:
Ted Smith, ect manager in the Reactor Decommissioning Branch.
So the exemption request is to co-mingle the funds, if you will.
But t
's still, funding for the two e pieces are luded.
So there's still a cost estimate for decommissioning and a cost est e for spent fuel management.
But it's one, ir exemption request is put in one vehicle.
Is that 1
?
MR. FEINTUCH:
co mingling refers to the fact that the licensee's ition, through its application, is that it has ficient monies for all the purposes that it wants to carry out.
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MR.
O'BRIEN:
Let me clari I
apologize.
We're providing you perspect as to things the licensee has submitted to us our evaluation and determination. We're not representing the licensee in any way, shape or form.
NRC is talking about the two things that we have in front of us, I'll cl if I might.
And both of you tell me if I'm wrong.
licensee has a separate fund for decommissioning, and a separate fund for management, maintenance and insurance the safety the spent fuel.
The licensee has put a license amendment into us to ask us to allow them to co-mingle those funds.
Am I correct, Karl?
MR. FEINTUCH:
No.
MR.
O'BRIEN:
No?
That's what understood.
MS. LOPAS:
No, Matthew's just asking if that was a possibility.
MR. FEINTUCH:
No, if you look at, those of you who have the activities report, if you look at Table 6, you'll see that there is money set as for both spent fuel management.
s is Page 6 of the
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There is, in fact, several thing going on there, including greenfield money, which is not at all managed, regulated as far as the Agency.
The 1icensee, again just simply condensing the gist of their application, which is a public document. Is asserting that, since they have adequate monies for all intended purposes, they would like not to be constrained by spending one kind of money in preference to another kind of money.
And they perceive that they are inhibited by the regulations.
So, this is simply an appl ication that says we think we may need to be exempt in order to spend these monies as we assert.
And again, I refer you to the application.
Anyone who's interested in this, if you get in touch with me through the contact number, I'll give you a reference.
You heard earlier reference to documents with the letters ML followed by nine digits.
Well that's, in fact, how we can retrieve our documents through our own system.
It's entered out system.
It goes through a review process with expertise.
In this case, it will be expertise, economics expertise through our financial group.
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And then, if it's needed, whether or not they've adequately demonstrat that they should have such an exemption.
But when you hear t
terms pre decisional, it means that we're forming up on this, and it's a relatively new application. It's come in, I think, within the last month.
MR. O'BRIEN:
Thank you, Karl.
MR. FEINTUCH:
So that's what's re if you look at it.
MR. O'BRIEN:
Thank you.
MS.
LOPAS:
Great.
Thank you, Karl.
Okay, anybody else in the room want to come up to the
- podium, have any additional quest comments?
Before we leave tonight, we'll put back up on the screen, you know, the contact information the NRC PM's, for the, the project managers, sorry.
I know there's a lot of acronyms, project Our office of public affairs, as well.
Just a reminder, we're not done yet.
You know, we have more time. It is 8:41, so we still have plenty of time if folks want to get up.
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You can NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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You can e-mail some comments to Karl.
You can get in touch with anybody if you want to know how you can submit more comments.
So, it's not just done tonight.
There's additional opportunities.
So, with that being said, would anybody else like to come on up?
Going once, going twice.
Let me check in with the NRC folks.
We had some questions that we received.
Do we want to go through those at all or no?
MR. O'BRIEN:
No, we'll put those with the overall process.
MS. LOPAS:
Sounds good, okay.
MR.
0' BRIEN:
In closing, I'd like to thank everybody for coming.
I appreciate the comments and the questions you've asked.
As Sarah indicated earlier, a transcript of the dialogue here tonight will be provided and should be In our document management system wi thin the next 30 days.
We're looking for your review and comments on the plan.
And there will be more to come down the road.
So if you look at it, and you don't have comments in the next 30 days, and you want to send them in two months from now, please do that.
If you have questions, as was indicated earlier, there's a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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There's also, you can also contact our of f ice of public aff rs in Region III.
Again, thank you very much, and I greatly appreciated your attentiveness and your questions.
Thank you.
That will close the meeting.
MS. LOPAS:
Thank you to the folks on the phone.
Thank you, Amber.
We appreciate your help.
(Whereupon the meeting was concluded at 8:45 p.m.)
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CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission Proceeding:
Kewaunee Power Station Public Meet Docket Number: nla Location:
Kewaunee, Wisconsin were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the united States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken and thereafter reduced to typewriting under my direction and that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.
Official Reporter Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.
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