ML20148S856

Transcript of 781121 Hearing Re Subj Facil Spent Fuel Pool Expansion,Pp 181-287

ML20148S856
Person / Time
Site:	Zion  File:ZionSolutions icon.png
Issue date:	11/21/1978
From:	Little L, Luton E, Remick F Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel
To:
References
NUDOCS 7812040045
Download: ML20148S856 (107)

Text

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l i- Records Facilities Branch ( .2 ) l 016 Phil 1 l

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N UCLE AR REG UL ATO R.Y COMMISSION l

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O IN THE MATTER OF:

CCre10 ET1E3 IDISON CC:sA;PI (Cion Stati0n, Unita 1 cnd 2)

Ccchst ;'c3. 50-235 50-2N (Spart Fuel Fcol E".pnnsion) g -.<*

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11/21/78 182 wb-1 E R R .T E E I. s.

3:e Limitad Aopearance Statement of Page 3 Marilyn'Shineflug 183

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187-5 Debra Adelson 191 6 Mark Ryan' 193 7 Terry Peck 199 3 Lauren Targ 208 9 Louisa Gosz 209 10 Carl Michaud 213 11' David Palkey 215 10 Richard Webb 219 13 Betty Johnson 231 .

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1 Edy Are thara any personc here who desire to giva a a

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I O Ie . LIMITSD APPEARA1103 ST.'d.0'.2m:T OF D. NILM SHItiMFLUG

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0' OU OCHAL? OF DEKALE AREA .P.LLIAi!CE FOR RES20MSIELE t

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!! n MS. 3HI2iEFLUG: My nem is Marilyn Shireflug. i.

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l 1: 'l.. Dakalb Area Alliance for Responsi':la En arry.  ; ,

'i 1 First of all, we bali 2Ve that the Ccc.'onna.1.th i 14 .d6  ; P

. s gj Edison's ' request to expand t% cpant duel pool stcra<;a capa- .

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o n y'l use of nuclear power te gen: rata alec::.ricity. Califc:.nia and '

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mpb2 1 energy source.

r 1 21 Illinois residents in particular saculd be awara 1

3! r of both tha short and long tarn ha?*cd.

and risas iracosed by

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s 1 4 nuclear power. We have more nuclear p:. ants operating or under 5 construction than any other state. In addition, a stcrage 6' plant for highly radioactive ucad dual reds is located at 7 Morris, and a waste dump for less radicactive but still very 8 dangerous material is 10cated at 3haffiald. Both thaca dumpo 9 have requestad permission to expand, yet the technology to 10 isolata these wastes for hundreds of :ncusands of years has 11 not been or may never be developad.

12 Commonwealth Edison tells us tnat nuclaar powar is 13 a clean economical way to produce ale tricity, but neglects to 14 mention either the technological or financial problams of isola -

15 ting radioactive wasta from tne anvironment foraver. Spokaanen 1G for the nuclear industry often say there's tean no accident 17 that has killed or injured a member of anc public, but they 13 fail to tell us about near accidents cr exposure of .: Orders 19 to radiation. Workers ara not considerad mambarc cf the public.

20 Such safety claims are mislaading bacccca th:y 21 j fail to mention that sven small amounts of radi:tian can in:

2.3 i. do causa cancar and ganctic nutaticac. Sinca ;ht icctC3 2E!

i i 23 act chew up for yerra it baceras diff.'. cult to 1:ak c ;c.rticulAr

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e4 an exposure to a particular cancer. i 4J s

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' pb 3 ' Iurising most she.rply' in stats:: with :nnny nuclscr 2ncilities  !

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u 106 mpb4 .2 include the naming of a tschnical solution, yet without the

.. o 2 existence of a solution the conclusions of the report simply i 3 can't be justified. f you don't name a techaclogy, on what a .

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A basis can you say that the problem is solved? I 5 'For example, succcesful isolation of re.dioactive i I 6 wastes from the biosphere appears technically feasible fcr I

7 periods of thousands of years provided thnt tha systems view a is utilized rigorously. Wnat is tne basis for this conclu-9 sion? Well, the technical finuir.gs cf the ERG reper: I baliava!

10 represent the v?'.ews of the majority cf informed tecimicci ,

11 experts. The views of the z.ajority at r.nis tins do not yat ,

12 reflect the seriousness of the situation.

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13 We view'it as highly unlikely that such a tach-  !

14 nology will ever be developed, let alene dem:ncerated. And 15 we believe that the ERG report should have included a pro-15 vision for a moratorium en the cenctruction of new nucl.acr pj pcuer plants.

73 No mora away frcm reactor storaga iteilities for l

gg spent fuel rods should be developed. The AGNS 21e_st at 2arnwell 20 South Carolina should not be utilised an a spant fuel stcrage 21-facility, neither should the GE Plant at Mc:ris. Utilitias 3 such as Ccamonwealth Edison sho*".d not be aliceed to up.nd une ,

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.mpb6 1 Commonusalth Edison vants to store more of its 3 '

spent fuel rods at the sitz, cad rai ar than anpend M e sisc 3, of the pool, vaan May we.nt to de is compact the pool. Taey l

,- l .

4, want to put Mam closer tog 2ther. 32t in order to do this l 4 .

1 I 5{ they're going to encounter 211 kinds of problems.

t  :

6  ; Tha only thing that is going cc be a barrier 7 betueen the spant fuci redo is going to be boron.- And if I'm l 3 net mistaken, thers's going to ba bcron powder 2ncased in scra  ;

i 6 i Dl =etal, I think otainless steel. Well, e is boren powder could i

10 leak out. It's very similar to the control rods in a nuclcar t

i 1: i reactor uhara the boron powdar has been kno"1n to Izak out. i i

2

And, of coursa, if this were to happen, thara  ;

i

2 could be a criticality accidant that wculd be a ';ary serious .

la j matter. And, I don't knew, I guess Commonwsc1th Edizen crys i

ts !, that, you know, there's really no problem, that it can -he dons ,

13 without thera being any hasards. Eut we raally don' t believe l t i

p. 'n it.

a ll ,

So it saams that O m nusalth 2dison is going to i

ro right ahead and do thic if they can get sha MRC to give )

tz

l 20 ;1 its ac. .croval. +

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44 One wcndars wny Commonwealth Zdicen uculi.he ter:- .

sa 22 1l. Ing to go char.d rich this, cnd I Sink the answer ic et.c ta ci

, 4 are st,11 p2...n:.ng ena.,.: . nopes en nas oracesr, cae; era

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2.; j thinking th t, wsil, y:n kn:w, this spent fuel is going to tra (

d sitting around ready to be reprocessed sene day. HIybe thay're:

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9 7 p1 million dolla.rs :into the Clinen River Draeder Roacco: Projcc:

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, 190 mpb8 I out. Otherwise it's not going to be a profitable proposition ! 3 9

to have all thosa plants there and no fuel to run them with.

I i 3'l So that's about what I have to say. ['

5

~

4 Commonwealth 2dison seems to be really serious '

5 about going ahead with nuclear pcwor, and it's going to be ,

s o 1 very difficult to stop tham. They're ' coking at the best way i 7'

they can make a profit, and they're not really concerned about ,'

8' the human needs.

i 9 (Applause.) ,

end la 10 I 11 12 9

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'c . 1 insurer.ca cecretary cnd I liva in Glencor and-I?m a fearful

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.y t neighbor of the Sicn Plant.

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. I.strongly ocpose increasing the waste storae.s.

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!!I wasts of this magnihud should ba ::o close to the hu.p  !

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population contar that c.he Chicage aren here is.  !

9 ' To hava 1059 tonc of radioac'iva c uranium and 1

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olutonium sitting virtua11t,' on top of the third lare. cst .cou. nic- .

's tion ~ center in uhe United Statos is, I thin % a.Qing for

!3 trouble. It is treating' an already dangarcus p chlem ca:alassly.

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l9 that could ensue veulc.be herrifying. It eculd wipe out in i

20 ..one swipe, or I should say, one breathe, thousands of nillicnc .

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192 I knowledge, no Environmental Inpact Statement has been done.

cgb2 o

Where are the engineers ' reports that guarantee the leading 3 casks ven't drop and canage the pool? Where are the rapcrts i

1. of the pool won't be dacaged by the that guarantee the walls 3 added stress? And where are the reporta that guarantee the 6 pool's cooling system will be abic to function properly with 7 added rods?

B Why are we so caraful to enumerate the dollar 9 costs of environmental controls, yet so ready to plungo ahead 10 in the area of nuclear power without ad3quate investigation cf II the risks involved, without actually analyzing the human 12 cost?

13 This brings ne to my third objection. We seen 14 to have an inbred belief that growth of the econcay is always 15 ultimately good for us. We are terptzd to gc vith Conren-16 , wealth Ediscn in their request for expansion of the Zica i

i 17 i storage capacity becauservith all tneir investments,.

I I

! Commonwealth 2dison represents to uc the encenditure of 18 I 19 millions of dollars and concurrently a growing, rebust economy.

20 Yet these dollars are good as sunk in an exotic i

21 and comolen norass or capttal that we pay for out 6 5 ~"*

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22 tanes and in cur utility rates and ana: weaxsns cur 23 Uhile we meticulously do cur cost factor anal zsis: 1 24 as giant projects ara launched which yiald a mere f>.7 percent l

l 25 ' fissionable uranium, =nny of cur dollars are squandared in ,

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5i' i j e::pand the pctential dangers tc the public in 2surd, hscauso

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Cor.=onwealth Edison's racerd :: :: ion is terribla. - As a o

matter of fact, the IIRCs cWn records shcw thrt the fien g

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tiuclear Power Plant has the high0st rate and n.rd 2r cf abncr .al!

9 !!.

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14 , ir And that I'd lihc to de is rond scr.:o s:ceples .

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s r s The accid 2nt was ctused by micshapen. Zuel rcQ and . a.< net  ;

t i brought under contr:1 because of he?.a 3rror a re=ctor j

< 1

] operator hit the wrong button of 2.s trip control r:du,

/

causing a.short delr.y during 'nhich the reactor went cut of s .

. cont.rol.

c c"..oM. 7,. 1957, r.

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l graphite todo: ator reacter, Wind 5cain .qua.3m- One,. on '.h2 {

}

,. edge of tim Irish Sen, car.o close to causing nn e.;lo3 ion.  !

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196 1

agb6 January 3, 1961. The SL-1, one of 17 experimental

- l reactors at the ASC Idaho Falls tasting ground. which covered i' 3j' 892 square miles, had caen runc::.ening well and was chut dmra  !'

,r 4 l temporarily for inspaction and rain cnance work.

5 On the night of January 3, three man vere 6

reassembling the control rod drives to preparo for reactor 7 Somehow the reactor vent cut of control, parhaps startup.

8 All three from too rapid lifting of a crucial control red.

9 One impaled by a part of the control rod men were killad.

i 10 in the ceiling of the reactor building.

• t

' After renths of dismantling and exanination,

'2

' it was still not clear just what had gone wrong. There's a t I

+9

• ~ good daccription of the accident aftermath in s' ann Flocr's, N'. We Almost Lost Detroit and cisc in a film called,"SR-1  ;

i 13 Accident. "  !

16 - Octcher 5,1966, the firct costercial breeder ',

t U reactor, Enrico Ferme FAST broeder reactor, abcut 30 mil: 7 i 48

' from Detroit,was the scene of a partial fual meltdevn. i 19, , A metal plate at tha base of the reactor  ;

- E9., worked loose and bloched tha flow of coolant to the ranctor ,

1 l

e3

~

core. Several funi assemblias partially melted in r.a 1 g

l incredible accident. An explosion of the c ra was paraiblu.

" J i

i l

{

i no i

" but fortunately did not taka placc. )

l!

M It took a yaar and a half to discover the cause '

25 f of the accident. After several attempts to put the reactor

' 1 il l t:

i IS U.

l 1

A ci 9

4

- agb7 1 -

back into cperation and then an explosion, Detroit Edison

' . finally decidad to call -

ha'.t to Farme. When the ACE refused

- h. to licensa in August 1972., the plcat was clczeC. fer good. ,

"/ } bj Jiune 5, 1970. At Come.onwealth Edison's Illinois

. i,

s. 't 0

h, 'Dresden 2 Nuclear Plant, Morris, the reacter wnt out of 4

Ellcontrolfortwohcursand: ccmputer guta a falsc signal and Radioactive iodine was released i..to the a monitor stuck.

i

[

containment vessel at 100 times the permissib l.e coccentration.

I Et ..

After the accident, the plant was cicssd for

.y' ' rl

'1 recairs, during which time it tics diccevered that there were r t

M, prcblons with the ECC system. Tne AEC: clournal of Muelv.r ,

9 UL Safety mada this closinc corrmnt in its report on the accident:l -

1 I

13 Ii "It is unfortunato that prcccGur:1, t.

I4 - mechanic . cnd centrol inndcquacias ara escceniced i

M ,' cnly upon che occurrance of .::cza incident th .t )

I l t

t'! { puts them to a real test. '  ;

l.

1 7 ;,i November 19, 1971. All the 1cate etcrage spaco  ;

r

. I M$ in the Northern Stancc Pcuer Conpany Monticello Minnecat i

19j reactor was filled, cnd the company began ceilling radic::ti 72 l 20 " water into the Mississippi River. By Nevsnber 21, abcut I i

0.I . 50,000 gallons of 1. acte had been dr. ped it.tc the river and. ,

some was auched into t.:e domestic wanur int.?ke of hinn6r; .;..

EI' .  ?

& [ befors nhe gree could 'ee closed. ,

.t.  !:

U. .s...

- i< . ,

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.u. . , . .n - -v1. s,

. -.a p .._.,7:.c u s ,;,,a

. . , _.,ie .u~,,.

. - r 1

'I 4 Gl! fcund a total of 3333 sa:ery v:.01stiens at tha ~.238 nuc~. car

., j- .

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, *4 4 l l

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t' 198 i 1

ac.;hG I - facilities it inspected. 98 Of thcsa peted a thract of i l a l'

"[ radiation 2nposure to the public c to 6: to&2:s. iha ,!

i. i f i j'

1

.l

• ' .UC imposed punislunnt 2cr on:.y oi@t Of those vic.~. tiens.

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i 3 Plant near ' Decatur, an alectricle z cua.g a candl.e searched I

. ,is .

Oi[fornir'le:ksinthecableopreadingreon,startada-firs 4

61

> ler  ; that burned for seven hours and destrcyed 1G00 control cablas; O!manyconnectedwithsafetydevice.1, includin.; the F.CCS for u.

1 9 'ly Und* 1 -.

Invoctigr.ticns b12rtad the firs en faulty 10 l-- .

t

~1 equipment dc. sign, and n S2nate inroctigation rarealef the j )

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ll ' I' not meet r.2gulategy requirement:3. The plant came cloca to a h 13 }; i la f meltdevn.

The . total cost of this cecident wcs at lacct -i l

i .

13 S150 million.

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I 200 g eb2 .1 must always be kept in an inert atmospherc. It c=its deadly 2 radiation '.:hich is belieica to rescin highly potent for 3 24,000 years. .And tiny particia: Of p?.utonium frequently 4 escape into wate:. cyr, at=cupnart, cnd se c1, of nenzby 5 com=unitiss.

6 The Department cf 2ncrgy consistently denies 7 that such things are dangercus, yet last year 2cc stell 8 International, the cer.pany that now cycratas the nuclear 9 power plant at Rockey Flats, Canter, cc1 credo, raported that 10 48 of their workers had died of cancar since 1970.

3$

The fcilowing figurse sLcw the reintienchip 12 between the incidence cl cancar and pronicity of nuciaar 13 power plants:

g4 Betwcon 1972 and 1975, cancar rats: of statas with no nuclear reactors at all, Alack: had a minuc 13.5 15 percont; Montana hnd a minus 4.4 porcent; Msw :Ianishire had

!6 1,

a minus 2.0 percent; Hawaii had a minus 1.5 percen:.

s ,

Setween 1972 and 1975, cancer r:tes of u ntas 18 with the largest reacters and also with some of the lary st 39

.,0 nuclear dung sitas: The 5t:tc of Washington, which : undcr-4 stand has almost 75 perce .t of all the wanto :redu: d ::o -

21 r w ,w

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I rate; Connecticus has c plus Of 2.5 parcent in .ccru..l.:.;y g

.. rate of cancer; Tennesses has olus of 8.1 percents 7;;.c d 2 <

an i

Island has a plus of 8.8 percent.

25 1 I

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4Bo mental .:retection .T.gency is canc2r being groancs.'. by 90 .

I M, f percan er 2.nc.,ustr.:.. a.:. w a s c e s .

am ,u s t r :. 2 2 wastas con.:.c ce .

3 .

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i r: <

t

,I.

responsiale for the rise of cancer in sc:.e or. une stav.ss,

(

,Fs yet in the comparativelv. unc.on.ulated state of Wa.shinc. ten, l .

1 which is heavily nuclearizade cc.ncer mcrtali y rose sharp 17 . .

a f' I i

I s.

I Hic.hiv. .ocpulated New lork Citv., hews 2r, which ,

,j . . .' .

=.t,v w lass uses .oressur:..ceo water reactors wn:.c.a w...:.

r

.=)- p t

i t ', . ,

radiation than the bciling water tm. e tsed in an.ina. ten, . i f . .. i o, ,. ,

showed a dec,:.1ne o.: A . .:. cercant in cancar mortaa.a.t..,.

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I p! 1957, in Windscale, England, a nuclear ra:.ctor uncccounte/21*- .

li -

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p , Pecple claim that de dramatic in: ca e in dar.Sc j i f.

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a 202 g1 I but private industry does not have to tell the public what ob4 v i it's producing or hen much. surplus plutonium it has lying around.  ;

e 4 The covernment promotas private nuclear use by 5 free enterprise but could be just trying to set up a handy l 6 supply of fissionables which it could buy up should a war 7 be declared.

8 There's a number of reports that say that wocen '

9 should be especially concerned about this issse. It's been ,

i 70 reportedthatwcmenare11timesmorevulnorabletoradiation[ t 11 than men, and the incidence of breast cancer, one of the I i

IE types of cancers fcund in recent studies to be linked to  !

I a

13 radiation, rose 12 percent in Connecticut from'1972 to 1975. l t

14 j The Millstone 1 reactor between Cnnnecticut  !

l 15 and P.hode Island, one of the large t nuclaar pinnts in the -

3 I

f 16 country, began operating in 1970. l t

f 17 I don't knew, just the incidence of the enncer -

18 incidence and the mortality going up in these areas that are i

i 19 heavily industrialized areas I think is encugh ev'.cance, y 4

20 even if it were 5 percent, for us to proceed with cautien en I Et not only wasta but also nuclear power, 22 On May 1st pclice jcilad 24 parsons, including 23 13 wcmen, at Barawell, Scuth Carolina, for crir.inal traspasa 2A following a damonstration agcinct Allied Genere.l Muclear 25 Services. Barnwell is the sits chosen by the government fer a

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intrusiens are from industrial waste. I think the bes'c chinc.: .

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I i i 210 i.

I ob12 Il

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have four childran. Thsy are all in school in Zion. My

'i profession is teaching, and I am now a substitute teacher, My college major was phvcles. I'm a former member of the d

Zion 2nvironmental Concerns Commission and helped to estab-O lish the Zicn Recycling Center in 1972.

'3 I oppose the expansicn of the Zion Nuclear Power 7 Plant spent red disposal facility. I certainly oppose its 8 expansion to the extent of three times the volume it was 9 designed to have heretofore. My reascns are trofold, one 10f having to do with the Zicn Nuclear Power Plant in particular I

11 I and one having to do with the nuclear power ef fort in the 12 United States in general.

!3 First of all, the general argument:

14 In the first place, the power industry an a

!5 matter of fact has nowhere to go uith its radicactive vastes.

16[ Uhen nuclear pcwor first became a reality more than two 17 decadas ago, the plan then was to recycle some wastes for 19 I resca by the power plants, and to encase and partanently 19 store the remainder of long-lived radioactive materials zn 2D safe surface or underground sites. Many plcac weru propa;od i

2 i but to this date, nothing has =atarialicad. 1 t '

20 :f' Thi3 naJ Cot Stopped Cile atCni0 90073 7 Mom en ~V;U i

t i 20 '! to expand and crew

' with the specious ar.jurent thct eventually {

i  !

24 ; the govern =2nt will raccgniza that it has no choice but to  ;

1 25 .

ac_ Prove reprocessin9 r.:lunts,. okay breeder reacters and bless I I

9 il a

'a  ;

i,},- i 2.1. .' 3-i 4 ebl3 i. - the preposed planr for undergeround storaga.

li  !, -

s

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. ,.r,,,,.._,,-

. . . . ~ ..,..u,..,.,,,3,,.. ,0

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.; i. .:.

the industry:3.'o2 sic lprcb1:a haa gono unsolved, unrosclved,  !

3 !.  :

4j,' and ' growing larger *.fith each passing day spent with no - l f

,i 30 .

citernati;e pcwcr scurces. The point of-compromise hetusen I

3[U government regulation and industry pressure for growth is  !

l driven sver further to one of lower and lower quality, all 7[ l a[ ,

at the ultimate ongense of cafety for.the Amcrican man, f I

woman or child. 1 g, , 1 i i 3 .,. ,

.2f. , v. , m.,

.r- , e.e., _4 o -e 'o .d.4.a y_o".a C. ...- .o m- t .e.a.' +m.

h j 3 ,- Edison's application in particular becance of ths Zion plant's faulty safatv. record. Last fall I believeJit. was Uracueck I 4.a !

I y,, Maca:ine dubbed Cor2d the most fined facility of a o_ ublic

_ l t .

utility in thic country for its past errors, its-slip ups, l y lql l 1

d i.

4. .s- t i- its negligenes in operating thic plant.  !

i t n

- 1.;. , . ' ,

?ct this same comeanv is _estitioning v.cu, the t

j

,,,  ! NRC, to allow it still =cre latitude in handling and caring  !

,, j g[ .

for' highly tenic weatos, thras bicas the vclu=e of hereto- [

g (d fore. l f

3y In school I like to gita the troublesene student -l n

. . l' ..

a break because fiwure ha has everything to enin - r.d so l

t

-yy

.: .s do I; I have noi:hing to losa. In this one can hers thare

>l i an industry with high ideals and gocd _ int:nrions, it's t- ue,

i c. ,,

ot . .,,

. c o _ .,..c

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., c o _ _u ...: #..,_.o

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=

at the enpense of workers' safety and scybe even nv ' cun,

'i t.

e. .

il l 212 i l

ebl4 8 well, that requires a lot of ~ faith and I'm not surc I have  !

2 gg, 3, .In closing, I want to address myself to another A related topic which is unpleasant to many minds to grasp but  !

O, which, though not new, is still very revolutionary.

I

$ +

Growth, the hallnark of the American scene, is  :

7 fast becoming a thing of the past. Grc.ith is bec::ing a 3 thing of the past. Let's think about that. We no longer liva S in a country of limitless resoureas and space. Our popula-  !

10 tion centers in particular are becoming overburdened and yet 11 no one, not the consumer, not the supplier ner the consumer l ,

t 11 , calls a halt to this precos-i ,

13 Now I'm a fan of R. Buc!cninsts: Fuller. Ha i

14 believes in'grcwth, but with a differance, not growth in l 1

15 quantity but in ingenuity in solving our problams, and I'm l 16 with him. I don't believe he would approve the expansion 17 of the spent fuel red facility at Zion because it represants l

ta ' just one more step toward dubious compr: mise.  ;

i 19 Where is cur ingenuity? When will the tired old i-t 20 solutions cease to satisfy the industry and the public? I i

21 ,

suspect only when it is forced to look elsewhere. I think '

4 22 it is ".ime to force it now.

?

E3 Thank you.

24 I

25 'l 1

-. p II n ,

15 a a C. , = ,.-*- - - +-= * -e-m- m + ,-em -m +-y - w e-w- w ---ww e **-en--* P&ee----a-+Wg-tre=+-~=+-- . * - + s +-tm p - v em e

213 ebl5 1j LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT OF~ CARL MICHAUD, 2' LAKE COU!iTY EEALTH DEPARTMENT, DIVISION OF 3- ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH: CHAIRMAN OF WAUKEGAN I

,. t 4

4j ENVIRONMENTAL COE41TTEE 3 MS. MICHAUD: Hello. My name is Carl Michaud.

s I'm employed by the Lake County Health Department in the 7 Division of Environmental Health. I am also Chairman of g the Waukegan Environmental Ce r!.t'.cm, My views here are not g necessarily those of my employer or the committae.

j9 j I'm very concerned with ComId's' request for 11 additicnal storage space for the spent fuel rods, and I'm 12 very concerned because the plant is located on the shores of Any potential release of large qu?.ntities 13 Lake Michigan.

p, f of radioactive materials-would have a deleterious effact en 93 .

Lake Michigan.

i 33 My other concern is that many cunicipalites er.d j j 1

37 public water supply systems have their inta'<es on the lake, j f i  !

gj and any radioactive materials in the water could possibly j i

t got into the municipal water systems and possibly contaminate {

g[ }

, g - the people who a::e drinking the water.- , l 3

4 Also the plant is located in a densely pcpulated }

3. .

J

!1 9,. .s. i region. Lately I noticed the trend has been going toward .

i lecs highly populatad areas. I know they're building cne in i

.3. .,

h.3 i

g {} Braidwood and also Illinois Fewer Company is building ene d

il 'ont in Clinton. Thev're takina orize farm land.

.w  :  ;

'J .

)

.1

l l

214 '

abl6 i I just feel that any accident in this area in 2 particular, you know, would pose a threat through atnos-3 pheric distribution of the contaminants-or the water.

' 4 Also, in Lake County geologically there is very j 5 high water.tablec and many people get their water from wells, 6 and there is the possibility of contamination of the drinking 7 water through the los groundwater table.

e Also, the disposal of highly radioactive waste 3 still poses a problem which I don't feel has yet been solved 10 and I don't think it is going to be solved in the near future.

11 I've heard many of the proposals about dispocing of i'c in 33 glass cases thousands of feet down in the R ckies. However, 33 I knew these wastes do last for -- some of them last for 14 thousands of years.

I think if we think back in time geologically, 15 1G tan thousand years ago there was a glacier covering this whole county, and the same within the Reckies. They're 17 [

r 93[ fairly new. And I don't think we could centsin the wastes 19 for very long periods of time.

So in conclusion, I would hope that the Board

2n 2,*i denics Cemnonwealth Edison's request for additional stcrage 1

22 space of the spent fuel rods, j

,,j

' Thank you.

25 I I

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,. M R . 7 2 Id.:2 Y : Mv -

-ntua is David ?elkw. , and work

.s p1 for a ncn-profit -d'/ccacy organiation, Iscrican Natural n i Uygiene Soc.d.ety.

~

hava .ever testified bafore, zo this is a '

3[ .

i l,

.s new exc. era.ence. 1 7

I will introduce Dr. Irwin 3ross' cancer research 1

3, f entitled "Ea:ards to Persons Enposed to Icni=ing Radiction 4

,I

.i.

(and to Their Children) from Doctges Currently ?c..mitted by I,

. .s

..,n

!! the 'inclear Rec.ulato_'"r Cc rnission. " .

Cr. 3ross is a senior  !

+

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cancer rece.crcher at the Resvoll Par.% Memorial Instituta in ,

'j Duffalo,IIew York. Rosuell is enc of 12 liatienz,1 Cancer . '.

e. U, r 1 Institutes in the United States, i

.)

q' l 1,.U Dr. Broso conbines the skill of a biologist and l

a. .

with Or. 3 rocs that the primary s

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a statistician. I concure  ;

,. N orincio?.e when one deals with the oublic henith iscua in-

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. .:, . 4 the denbt must go to the public cnd not to the techncicgy.  !

e n.s 6

Thus, the proponent of a hascrdous h'/pothasi:

5l 4

.I ,

has the burden of establishing a prima facie cace for the I

.s s 5 ha:ard. The burden of Drocf Shift 3 -

to thC.TS. '. Th O 'T '.i tO .3 0 J. s ::

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s.o. i 1 a11cus annual racie. tion ".evels for nuclear ucrhers within .

2 4.= h J..e.t *. a.;g ;

r.s. . l 3e.

3 .

tr. Eross uses hiOz0 dical record dcta from the o

/ Tri-State Study. which has a population ba::e cf 13 millien

! l l

5 people frca Minnesota, Mary 1 cad, and upstate 'Mw ' fork and '

6 which hns cecoiled data over a .hree ."sar Pericd..

7 The issue of increasing the spent fuel stor:ge ,

8 capacity at the Zion facility.must addrecs itself to this 9 particulc evidenes and similar avidance before recionsible to policy is formulcted. I agr c vith Dr. 3 css that the prima m o a mo ., ,. a ,, ,- _.. . i,_.nce. 4., ..... , ,

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13 Through this tactimony I wish to propose thcr.

1. these f acts ho mcde known by a joint Offor en the pr. c of 1:- r.~ee m.-~- ~,. . . ...*

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I t o- ddve.-~ . nee-.is as al.*.c.*.v . - . .n .+._# c "... d , '.. ~ , ~.'.". '.. d " _ '_~.e._-

j l

10 public hearings on these and 0 hor related iccurs he anc  ;

^

20 announced adecuatoly to the publicso that we may address our- l B

gj 581V3S properly 00 Oh3 facts.

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L *.c2 ' mpb1 I - l, A faa days t.go I had a convaraction wita ?. C2 ,

2q.: rspracentati/s, Mr., "F 4 2% Andsrdach, and ' I fet:16 him to me-d ' ,

1-3 .; cccperative, indcrmativa and favort'cla in Oo.snine. P.na linas 9

8 i 4

f ' of cc.1 unication behuaan concerned citizens 2ndLC2. . '.r . ~!

. . . 'l 5 , - Anderdach cr.id he would provide informcticn about the Zion  !:

i '

I.

52 Plant.  !

e . >L uust yesterday I and . n' aqually faverabia conversa , ,

n .

3 E' tien with Mr. George Ornvers, Assistant to tha ?rasident of ccmnenvaalth Edison.

1 Until further contrary svidance is. j.

[0 ~ producad,'I baliavs the incraaso cf lica spent fuel ca.y. it.y I: ' '

i

":' . wculd.pos2 an unacceptable ris:c to tha citizcis of La.ca County,! '

d 12 h Cook County, and Illinois in gane.ral. 3ct bayend this, I ' ' 5 t: can't really blane in11y the utility adminfat:2. tor , public i

4 ' service officin1s, and goveranent ragulators-for .T.11.. wing l  ;

li auch a buildup cf hazardcus wasta to ec.:ur, for I, myself, ', .

s must taka part raspensibility for this vast:2 I'ro caused f

• thrcuc.h o.r actions as :n 212etricity censumsr.  : '

m, Y

..: . I also blans tha wactaitl threw-2Wa'r, out- c.f-si.ht-:  !

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.3.

L cut-of-mind lifastyla.3 and mentalities our societ.r .tessassas. .

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]22forethecitizenry,unichcomprisesalltheadormantion

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.i t 't i=Us -he M20 panal to work trith tho 'Cenrcnua?li-h Edicca F

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l 218 mpb2 I Company and the citizen groups in facilitating information l 2 exchange be ? ore con:mencing with further public hearings and 3 dabates. ,

r 4

( g, I received a letter from Dr. Bross, and he's in 5 Buffalo, as I said. And he had some interesting things to 6 tell ce which I'm going to shars with you.

7 The NRC officials present here today I feel have a much opportunity now, right now, to engage in active con-i 9l sideration of options for spent fuel on the national level.

10 I request therefore postponement at le.ast of decisions regard-11 ing the Zion facility u-til it can he assured that these 12 critical public health decisions will be ccmpatible with the  :

13 guidelines being formulated at this time.

14 The Octobar 1978 -- get your pencils ready --

15 , draft, TID 2228A17:

l

" Report to the Frasident by the interagency 16 f I '

17 i :sview group on nuclear wasta cancgement has been jaj recently released along with much collaheral matar-

.!- l ill. On page 56 a discuscion with AFR, or spent ,

19'k '

20 fuel storage r indicatas the escalation of spent 2" fual storaga in existing facilities, including the 2; 1 Sicn AFR pool, may be unnecessary as facaral A2R  ;

h i depositorias are confirned."

23((. l g; [i In closing, I'm addressing nysalftothisaudiencej 0 i 25 ir only. as a citizen, and I'm not going to be precccupied with j d .

1 14 el i

y .

h. 1 t

I

. 219 i a (

1 I 2'

mob 3 1 v.v.ing with other individuals who derive their infornation I e

t.

2 j from various sources, but I will' concern myscif with  !,

l >

' ]i implenentatics'and advocation of ths prinacy priscipia.re - j

, I 4 garding this nuclear waste issue. ,'

S: ! With all sincerity, I hope we cc.n really work l 1

'I together as.pecple,.'as Americans, to decide policy on this 7 , issue in a dignified and h"manistic manner.

I 7  :

1 Thcnh you. ,  ;

I I-t 9 {! <

(Applausa.) ' '

t. -

Vi l4 c'

LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT OF RICifARD HES3 {#

l 1 MR. WEBB: Good morning. My n2ne is Richard Nchb.: i, M '{ . .

i f' 9, 1 I'm a nuclear reacter - or was a nuclen: ranctor-cagineer, N a nuclear reactor scientist. [

13l  :

1 t c ,i[ My background is I have a.Ph.D. in nuclear reactor !  !

U  ;

6 t .

1E g engineering.

I was fornerly en the staff of the. Naval reactorst j R h and had junior level responsibility for the reactor portion l .

' f.!g '.

.;. 1 of the nation's firct civilian nut 1 :.: c. ow 0

u.lant. I also  !

p, !9 worked up at Big Rock Point N"a' ~ * "over Plant. e ;

L ,

m' I!I I have done a study on the reactor accident harards:. (

20 over the inst eight years, and at the end of 1976 I issued ny l'

p. , iE report entitled "The hccident Eacards of Nuc1 car Pcuer ?lantc" ec . published by the Unive sity of Messachusctic ?r us.

-q i I

w z~ .

What I haue come out to Illinois to do is .o

}

a c..:  : initiata an investigatien into the ac- m n4- hazards of the 3o

~~

p...a spent fuel storage pool. W.at I find is that there is what

.j A.

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220 l mpb4 1 we call a neltdown possibility in the storaga pool if you 2 leso your cooling water, according to ny calculations. That 5 is, when the heat of the radioactivity in the stcrage pool,

' 4 the spent fuel storaga -- the spent fuel can heat up the 5 fuel material and bring about malting of the cladding, and-S it's conceivable.therefore by centinued heatup that melting 7 of the uranium oxide would occur, which would then allow the G radioactive materials, stronti.m-90, casium-137, and others, 9l t to be boiled, smoked out of the fuel.

to The most likely pescibility for causing this is 11 a reactor accident next door at Zicn. It could dung out half .  !

I 12 the core into the immediate anvironment and you couldn't get - 1 0

13 within a mile of that place due to the heavy intense ga=ma 2cu'd get a lethal dose in tan minutas. I 14 radiation.

13 ,

So the scanario would be the pacpla in the storaga j

.i 15 pool would flee and leave it unattended for it to -- for the 17 cooling to stop and lead up to thoce accidant hazards, or the l

39 melting possibility. l 19 Now the consequances -- I'm going to discuss 20 shortly the specific mechanism by which this could be brought 21 about, but we must understand and appreciata the consequences.

t 22 My analysi: of the re'ctor accidant hasards leads ms to beliave! '

i that - neu believn, but what I find is that using the past j n i 34 contamination limits for agriculture and ethat things t'u

. t  ;

i en havebeenusedinpastcafstystudiesbytheF2daralGovernment} i l

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Ohio,.rhat size It d croc ccmoinad r2 quiring c2Vora living ,

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fallo".t, cesium-137 L

."t rectrictions due to gn=.2 re.ys and '.:thtr j t

7 !..and'others,justtot:.1ovacuatien;faneg.ilecoliclike i..

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                                          ,a                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         .

M q capacity of the sterr.ge pool of 2112 el.rsnts. n tddition,  ! i .

                                  ,        .. I just calculatad, based en dn.ta, that thers will be about
                                           ?

t . 7

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i I fuel storcve . ecol. , i M c a , '^.~

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                                                                                                                                             ..,.u                                                                                      m.,e,                                              . . , .

I  ! I p 222  : Il mpb6 I New York combined, that si:s land e.rea. New that's just the  : E level cn the outar coundary cf the fallout sona. Thr.t's the 1 ej,, ninimum level. It's more inuense in the interior., ,

  /                          d P
                            + ll                     New that's just three tens of plutonium. -There e

p 3 will be 865 tens of equivalent alpha -- equiv='a-* *adio- ' S activity. Now that probe.bly is an uppu bo'.t:d, because the f i  ! 7 data is very sparse in the NUP.EG report. It says " actinides C' and their daughters", and then it gives you so many - .048 0 megacurias per metric ton of uranium, f 10 We have to Sind out how much plutonium is in there,; i

                          'l            the radioactivii.y.                                                                                     ,

12 New what are the scenarios for getting this fuel 13 melM "g situation? Tha radioactivity has its haat due to tha t 14 i radioactivity rays that kick off energy. If you icas your  ; i 15 cooli=g water then the only coolcat is the natural cir circu- 1 I 1G lation and rad.iatien ecoling at the tcp. Eat 10 will be very f i 17 compcet and there will be very little radiai.icn -- well, 15 there won't ha any radiation cooling in the intarier of this l [ i 19 mass. , 20 So you're depending on natural air circulation. 21 I've done a thermal hydraulics calcula icn and lind that 22 spent fuel red, in one yearis eccling time vill bring tne . t 23 cladding, zirconium cladding wall up, about 4000 degrees 24 Fahrenheit. "irceniun melts at 3000 dagrees, 3200 degrees

 . .s                     25            Fahrenheit.   "airconiue. in teste has baen fcund to catch on f

i '.

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if j 1: j' . 223' i mpb7 1t firs around 1600-ds.grees Fe.hrenheit. So before, prchably, it ! l, -1 2y gets to cel.hing it will catch en fire, and than ycu've got  ! t i) i i. an exotheratic cuide.*:icn. In other words, a firs, to really- l 3 jl'i 4

                  -                                                                                                              s         ,

4 y, generata heat much more intense. I L' 5L Now, then thera are other scenaries. The intansa i. i Sf heat, the rack cans could then nbeit and just rain to the I a 1 ( 7 !! bottom The uranium c::ide malto at a higher temperature, j 11 31 based en data in the breeder explosion or breeder safety l 9 l; experiments, that tha uranium oxide pellehs rill be sintered

                     .I 0a together in the form of sticho, and                                    hey'11 he ':.7 thers.          And i

d

          ;; } if someens would try be put trater back .into that pcol to try
          ;2                           to ecatrol tha situation, you could ha're one gigantic nuclear                                      i T

3lil reactor. And you ccn conceive of cscillation growing and 1 s .; U water expelling, ccming dcwn and aven lead to just a general

                     .l-
                      -                                                                                                           {F I

o.. massi're exc.locien. Thtt's ena scenaric, i, and 1C2 3 i i h 1

                       ;)

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I 224 l I 1D agb1 The whole accident -- well, the accidental loss 2

                  , of cooling water is not analyzed in the Safety Analysis Raports e
              *'   i t of the NRC and the Applicant, as best as I can determine.                 !

t I Now, I conducted an inquiry -- another person c and I cenducted an inquiry and fcund that Sandia Laboratory a t out in Albuquerque has done a study on loss of cooling water 7 and icoked at air circulation. 6 They submitted a draft report which the NRC 9 has and they reached the same conclusions tnat I did. They j 19 found that the fuel got up to 900 dagrees, they didn't specify o 11 i centigrade or Fahrenheit, but as it got up to 900 degrees, it l' i caught en fire and then the fire took it up to melting.  ; L3 And I asked them . dces th'e repor: go -- analyze ' I4 the consequence of the melting? And he said no, they just Is I stopped thers. So that's the draft report. H He stated that thers wuc, thers would be -- l i7 the gentleman I talked with is a Mr. Benjamin of Sandia 16 Laboratory, a very fine man. 19 Now, I'd like to raad a statement here frem the 20 book, The Technolocy of Nuclear Reactor Safety, Voltrae Two, El Reactor Materials and Engineering, by the late Mr. Thcapson, i II former AEC Ccamissioner. It's put out by the MIT Press I i i 13 i , around 1972 or so. 24 These chapters written by Louis naker, he's i l 23 of Argonne Mational Lab and another gentleman. Thsy report ', s

~

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           ~

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                                                                                 - -      _m__

L t 225 1

           - cgb2.                    on me al-air racction.a. 'And.here's the quote from the bock
                     ~
                             ; cn Paqs 453:
                     -       I                                                                                                                                 .,

i i "A carious accident at-3ettis . . . . that's jj I'

                       ~ kh the settis Xtemic Power Laboratory naar Pittsburgh in Penn-
                    .a t
                                                                                                                                                               ,l 5

sylvania. j 6'i 'l l "A serious accident at Bettis i-  !

                              ;              involved the ignition of a large quantity of 3                       circonium scrap stored in open segregated bins.
                                                                      ~

I Flames rose to a height of 30 feet and were

                   "                         so intensely het that vindows over 100. feet                                                                   ,l 4

away vers cracked. , I . M "An incident at the 'l-2 salvage s3 yard at Oak Ridge resulted in two deathe ,

                                                                                                                                                             't M                         vhen a drum of finely divided zirconia.12pset                                                                     f, j
                   *9
                    '-                       causing an explosion."

l M 3cenarios you can ccma up with with r.oltan l., t[ zirecni'.rn falling into the pockets of water, or water might - ,

                                                                                                                                                            . t.

I .. t!.

                    , .4 even be brought in inadvertently thrcugh seme pipe that                                                                    j k

f k i

                    .eie.

t f finally melts and cracks open. You could get the moltan .  ; t 6i

                   ?g i; zirconium-water interaction. which could cause the molton 5..

E' zirconium to freg:.ent into v rf fine 6 :cp12tz cnd spr'.r up

                   }m A        k T, 1 in the air and then thera's yon: 2xplosion, ohich could fust i

n 1 E Ii, rupture that - prestmably rupture the cen nintent building A/ \ -

                    ~;' j enciesing the storage pocl.

a Wa haV3 to loch at - 913 L5 'I %e"6's other 67ays. 8

 %j   .

q 3... . k 4 49 g

          * -.< -             .        . .--        -       ,  -e        .4m... ,,,-r-  ,-w.,  .       ...---e   .%,     -,-4.,    --.... - . - - ,     ..._---.-...+-

i i 2 ., c., ) I i 1 agb' is at Zicn . I'll Ocnfine my ..~3 marks to Zion. I wish I

            .e.

O could talk about Crasdan as well. - h. [ Sun just the intense heat, the air pressura, f f

   -            it if that building is sr.mled up, they have butterfly valves

c,

            ~ ll that seal off the building -- tha air pressure cc.:1d b1cw
             *\

thoco valves open, doors could be left open, steam esplosions 7 such as a water pipe falls into molten uranium oxide.

            ,, i                                                                                     l
             "!                              You see, as the fuel melts down, tha zirconium           !

l '

             <2   .
             ~

I melts d vn -- if ic doesn't catch on fira, if there's not i s ,3 o

          "                                                                        fire, the enough oxygen or semathing -- if it's a limited                          l p' {i              zirconium j ust will niide down like water, and than it would
          .i
          '- ! meet the cold material in the bottom and frac:a and then i

plug up and prevent further air circulation, and then the

          ," 4 ll I        uranium oxide wculdn't have any air and then precumably the i

I*- 1

uranium oxide would heat up and melt dcun, and there you're

                    !                                                                                   I j .- -                                                                                        6
              ~
                    !        smoking out radioactive matarial.                                          j i

U I mention tsc circenium explcaien possibility. I i 10 i We don't have anv e::periments on hcw much of the plutonium i

           '3 ii oxide could be released and whether there would be an chemical t i

1 I

• oj reaction between the plutonium oxide and the circonium. j s i 2I P "irrenium ic highly reducing, so is plutonium.

J 4..

           ~- . :             '
                       ! ! . eld could you get -- :2.':o cut de oxygen fr:m 'Oc pin onium --
          * :1 clutonium boils ct lower tarperatura -- i': relaases plutenic.

4 - a E' j{t Ycu have to run expariments. I'm not recemmendin:,  !

           .d!!
           '3 that you do ran thecs experiments.

P en

r1  ! ;

l < i "7 -

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                                                                                                                                              .'i.

9 ' I ga .

                                                                                                                                                 'c   ,

agb 4. l Now, . that's. the rsactor accident - ch, Sa j.r J r A . i,- a re:cter: accid:nt wculd ha the acct'likely causa.far bringing (- r o% 2 a.d this all about. And, ycu knes, you nava a reacter next-door

 .,'                                                                                                                                          1
                ~z }j at Zicn and you get c chain re:ction accident.

They f:.e,: that.(' 3 reactor too, leaving ' chat uncttended.  !

                " i,.                               As.someone pointed out last night, those deadly.

l 7 rays, these highly intenso radioactivity that.cc as,out, it >

              .S diffuses into the ccmputer controls of theLsystem.                                   Tae rays                             ,

9 affect the transistors'in the computarn and enn cauco mal- i i 10 function signals that can help make the plant durther un- [l ' 1 13 1

                        ' contro11 chic.                                                                                                        '

l

               ,.(
            ' u ' jii                               So the reactor accidant,<:re must review the                                                      ,

U[' whole - well, the ' NRC must conduct a full inquiry into the. . i

                                                                                                                                             - {.

l t 'i ; reactor accident,.hocause that's your initicting nachanisn j i h I' i j here that is mest likaly and the T2C refuses to analyze.We- I a .! . 4 i* i

i ~ severe accident poscibilities, they only icek at very'limitadr i 4

27 " minor accident possibilitias. The ecct severe kinde, the  : I

                    'I

3 ] ones that lead to melting, well, thera is osaantially an  ; ,

                    ..i
              .'2   0 infinite nt=ber of su;:h accident possibilitice.                                     And this ic                          !

D0 discussed in my treatise, as I mentioned. ' W l ' i Another pocaibility is schetage. In Morenest I 28 . Cnic, thera was a laber union strika yh t-o *-a  !.rr.:t ceen; l ,

             'd       -

againct managarant tech cut 50 tenc ed dync=its end stonct<a i N , ite sc=scre human beings can ho pretty nasty. That's cnot.>.ar 25 .', pessibility for an accident, '.thsn we knew that th2:a are

                    ,r                                                                                                                                ,

1 i

                    .6                  *

• r,m.m. .. . , , -, . .m, ---,--..m , ,,--,_,_,-._,,,m-. ...,m-, . _ - , , , , . . , ~ - . - - , ,

       - -      -                              .     -             --       . .                          _ . - .- ~ . - . . -                                            .                                          -           -

228-I agb5 people, unfortunately, that would do such acts. oi j Mell, my reconnendation is to not only feny

                                      ;          the application but move in and close down Zion and dismantia
     '                                l 4'

l it and make recommandations to close every. other nuclear  ; i 5 i reactor in this country and close them down and develop the

j. )

6I safest rathod of. disposing of the radioactivity that we have 7 right now. S I'd Ine to make a request that the MRC -- O and I'd like to ask the 3 card the question right nc';: Would to you arranga to get me a copy of this draft rapert by Il 3enjamin and McClushey out at Sandia on the analysis of this 12 air cooling loss of pool unter accident, would you do that 13 for me, wocid you get that rapert for me if I give you of 14 address, Mr. Chair:uan? 13 ' CHAIPl:AM LUTCN: ' lou're asking us to get a 16 report fren Sandia for you? 17 MR. WE23: No, you have it, the NRC has it. 18 CHAI'Unn LUTOU: Ch, the NRC hna the Sandia , 19 report? 20 MR. WED3: Yes, they ~ r.ubmitted it to you, to 1 ' the Nuclear Regulatory Ccmmission, , t 22 cnA:ngng ;cron:  : 11 gee if we can do that. 13 I would have to cak the Regulator'1 St?.ff. l. , i 24 Are you familiar with the report? l [. s 25 MR. GCDCARD: Mr. Chairrr.n -- l 5 i 4

           -ve.-m ~ .     -n,         ,,,.m       n    wew-, a..-,-,,-er erv--,,,--,-,--e..,,.y,,-,e-ae,                      ,,.m,-,ec,  e-,.e-,-me,   v e u. .e , e- ,   e , -m m e-e, ,,,,,.m-,w.. .,,m.o.--,,4,   a ....-esw-----o---,e    ,,    w e ma-

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                   'I                                                                                                                                                                            229                  3 i

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               .t                                                                                                                                                                                       .

agb6 ;.. CHAIRMMT LUTON: Cr even if you are not, do

               .. U                                                                                                                                                                                       '

you think you can ge c it frem Sandia? j.

               '* -}                                                                                                                                                                                                   -
               *9                                                                      MR. GCODARD:                                      To th . as:tont that it is not a                                             ,

o

               'I

( classified or restricted doctur.snh, it will definitely ba. j  ; d 1 il made available to Dr. Wchb. l. f 5b1. We have. your addias , Jr. Wshb, on the record ~ - 7! of this proceeeding, I hope. If not, will you make it

                        +                                                      .

3 available'either en or off the record? I ' 9' I

                                                                                    .DR. UESS:                                        I would lika the draft report that io '-                was submitted to you as it was cubmittad to you from Sandia.

1 ". Would you give me that draft report as you receive it, as U, ths HEC received it? l- , C I-MR.'GOEDARD: If it exists, it'll be rted, available to you, subject to any restrictions our manage wnt 4

              'I2     i            night put en the ..cloase of such document.                                                                            If there are such                                   !       ,

M l restrictions, they will be made known to you, howaver.

                       .i                                                                                                                                                                                      I' 17 4i.                                                                    DR. WE33:                                    Mr. Chairman, I wculd like to ask                                        l, l0                  you to order the NRC to give me the draft report as it was                                                                                                                   i i                                                                                                                                                                                  .i e

Nh submitted from Sandia to the NRC.  : I 20 [ CF. AIR.'9.N LUTON: I really dcn't have that kind il

a.  ; or pcwer. . .

i 22 t Mcw there is a law, the 7rstdom of Inf rmation  ! I i, i. OI i( Act, prebably you?. a aware of it, and you can make your 21 f request that way. And that pcrtion of the agency that l: f,

• 25.qll concerns itself with such matters vill deal with it. Perhaps )

4 h. I, 8 a .

            ,                        -  . _ _ . . . - . _ . . _ . _ . . . _ _ . - . . . ~ . _ . . . . , _ . . _ . _ - . . _ . _ ,                               , . . _ . - . , _ . _ . _ _ . _ _ _ _ ,

                                                      ,               . - ~ -.                                            -                                                                    .            -            - -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    }

230.  !, e ein? j ; it's pescibia, putting your request t*1at way, the agency t would have no chcica but to release it. c

                                                        -                                               At the same-tino, the law dces contain some                                                                                  .

r ., I i j i j

                                               = I, e::emptions, as I reen11, to wi:sthold in appropriate cases.
                                               'll3ut,whatavertheydo,itwillhavetobedonainacccrdance U

with the law. I would suggest you make your request in that' manner, because we don't have the power to direct the

                                               '9 Regulatory Stcff to make is available if, indeed, they'have it.                                                                                                          i
                                            *o I i

i  ! We simply den' t have that power. t

MR. GODDARD: I:? I may, Mr. Chair aan.

1*" Dr. Wahb, we cencider your request made on

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -1 1~"

the record here, and we'll attempt to comply with it.- '

                                                  .         I DR. IEB3:                                For ths record, my add:cc 'is                                                      ;

i  : 1 "' 2058 111th Street, Toledo, Ohio, 42611'. My phone numbar is { dU Area Code 419-729-2224. 1r Thank you. , i N CIAIRMT41 LUTOM: Thank you. i 59 Dr. Webb, it isn't quite clear DR. REMICK: .!

                                            '9 to =a why you have made the calculations that you have.                                                                                                       f,        '
                                                               !                                           DR. *C33 :                               I'm sorry?                                                                          '

99 L , DR. REMIC": It'.s not quite clear to cae why x [ you made the calculations that yen have on the ; ion peel. i

                                          ' 24 i                                                             DR. WSSB:                              Uhy did I?                                                                          I
                                                        .:i                                                                                                                                                                             '
                                          - w" !l DR. 3EMICK:                              ' lea,                                                                                       i d;
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                                                                  -l et
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si , e o' t ',

                                           . N,s ,.

231-  ;! 1 1  ! t [ t . l agb 3  ; DR. . E .:I.B : I wanted to i.vastigata the: accident. d-  ! 4 .

                                        ;h                                                              .
                                       "] h                   nzds, ~ tint could he tac conssquences of a malfunction in                                                                                                                             ;

j: -; 4 the systan .in teri.*s of public health and safe::7.- .

    ,.                                    ,A                                                                                                                                                                                                 >- >
                                        "3                                                   On. REMIII:                  Hcyc you made theso ' calculations                                                                                 I.

p n!

                                        .. u                                                                                                                                                                                                 v
                                        # 9 available to the Applicant or de Staff?                                                                                                                                                       -f ,       t
                                        ,t                                                DR. WE33:                   I'd             be happy to.                                                                                                 #

DR. REMICX:

1. hl .

Ycu'd be villing to if thay. 3 :7 were questioning? , *

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             .       r p

3 DR. IE3B: Surely. As 30cn as I get back to 'l i Ul Tolado I?n going to be -- I have a report I'm working on now k-!

                                          'ri on another matter, but I could just %ero:: r'.f notes a..d sand                                                                                                                                 !'

4! i' 4, . t ,

                                     '"                   it out.          I have lectura notec that I put togotner which they.

3  ;

a. ,

                                     ">                   could fo11cw fairly easily.
                                                 ;                                                                                                                                                                                             j     ,

ei !

                                                 ,                                           Dn. RENICK:                  Well I wcuid apprecista it if                                                                                       I~

1 R you wculd make .it availeble to the parties and to the Eccrd. ' y*. r DR. IE23: . I will, sir.  ! l

                                     .t
                                     "                                                       DR. REMICK:                  Chank you.                                                                                                        .i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               ,1 M                                                       DR. WE33:                  Thank you.                                                                                                             c' i^
                                      -  0i:                                                  (Applause.)

e , 20 f CHAIRMAN I.UTCN: After this next person, I Uj think ua 2heuld t:ke a 10-minute break. n 2I d u._< 1, m. p .m.. .. a y. _ uy.-. .:w

                                                                                             ~._,                                                      ...s....._..w.m_ v.e                      w t.w_ r_em_ .r a nv
                                                                                                                                                                                                               . n.. ,.. w~ .
                                         ., 1

4. ,

um _;; t emt~.,;m_ C.v. ~ .w. n/- s..:'v.n.D, a

                                                                                                                                                                              . r . t .ta-^iv*e E'<             1                                       Ms. JCCiSCN:                     I'm natty ichusen                                  -

a citizen of E3 Rockford, Illinois, te :lether of seven children and fo:- .er t, g i. 9 b 4

                                                     . s 8
                   , _ _ . . . - _ _ . . . . . , . . , .          . _ . . . . ~ , . _ _ . , _ . _ . , . . - . _ . . .      . , . _ _ . , . - . _ . , _ ~ ~ - . . _ . . - . _ . _ . . . . . . _                                . . . _ _ _ _ . .

V l 232 1 agb9 l teacher. 9

        -       i                                                                                 i
             ,i                     I'm concarned about improper regul.ation,                     i v.

ft i i

        ~

{ disposal of agent fuel rods and all nuclear wazte because of l' '

• i!

{j its effects en future ganerations who Will be paying for thia 5i ' failure with loss of life, impair:ent of hecith and gene. tic 5 defects, as well as loss of natural resourcas necessary for l 7 a good quality of life. 1 G8 . Increasing the reacter spent fusi stcrage Gi l capacity by ccmpaction, or as stated in MUREG 0404, rede. signing I fuel racks and making more efficient use of available p0o1 11 floor space, will inersace the danger to present and future t "' generations by increasing the amount of radioactivity in' the L3 pools and the consequence and likeliheed of accidents.

      "                             As Natural Rescurces and Energy Chairperson of 15 the League of Wcman Voters of Rockford, Illinois, I have 16 participated in a national Energy Concensus after tuo years 17 of study.

18 According to the statement of position of the 10 natier.a1 Board of the League of Woman Voters, issued in March, 20 1978: i es

      "                                                                                                  1 "Ealiance en nuclear fisnien -- light                          i
      '"l                   water reactors -- should not be increased.

23 Special attention mu= be giton to solving wasto e '$ L  ! disposci and other health and safety prebleras i I > 4 associstsd witt. this energy scurce." 25f  ; 4 i b 1

9. .  !

a . I

t  : n. i i

                                       ,                                                                                                                                                        '233   ;

11

                                                                                                                                                                                                                       +

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                                ..          f
                                 ,          I-                                                                                                                                                                          i
           . ac.b10                    !,!                                            Prob 1 cms cnd risks associated with spent fuel                                                                      ,

i c

                            - _3       is,                                                                                                                                                                 3 , !,*
                                          .-storac.e in'nocis naar reactcre which can be increased bY                                                                                                      i           ,

e - j. i

                                                                                                                                                                                                         -l
                                        ;! fuel ecmpaction include:

fire and fuel meltdoem; criticality - -- . 1 i 4 it . .

                                                                                                                                                                                                         -f f.due to arrangement of f'eal rodt; water loss, including 12aks                                                                                                      j         j
                                .=

c in the basin liner and boiling of2; c rarficw of watar in the -t i, 1 pool; m2chanical' damage rasulting from accidents in inserting ' t d i

                                        !              fuel' rods; cask drops and many more.                                                                                                                            ,
                             ' o*
                                ~

These accidents could be causad by human  ;

                                    ' t,                                                                                                                                                                                !.

3

                                ~ [ error, faulty design or natural phenomena such as sartheunkss,.

3 mn , i major reactor accidants or enemy bombs. Thev can release r e 1* 4 . , radicactivity :nd cause pessible contamination of ai::, soi.1 ,j

                                 ~'

j and groundwater with serious: health and cancer risks to the t o. population, as well as werkers near the pool.-

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -1

{ p' 4 The League supports public hearings such as je i p": l this-one. The League of Wer..en Voters national enargy position  ! I is- f. - states: t j s' t "tblic understanding cad cecpera-r i,  ; in : tien are essential tc. the success of any national rel l energy stratee.v_ . Citizen e. artici=. ation in decisien-t making must be assured at every governmental Invol."  !  ! 4 . I i

                               " !                                                     '~he Leacno snecerts the E'A concsch 0:                                                                                 ;

a

                              .e un oj                                                                                                                                                              f'
                             "                           Envircnmental Ir;ect Statements.                                        It i-t impcrtant: that a full i

hEnvironmentalImp?.ct5tatenant be mace after holding public .

                                                                                                                                                                                                               ,       f
                             =,-          .yil h==t=gn ==em= mn ei=mtent=g "-                                                         -~s              z - - ne2=ings a

5-

                                               ~.

8' ' e 4 , f

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94

                                                                                        -a
        ,                                                s.

agbli by such negative declaratienc used in Directive 0404 such as: 2

                                          " . . . 1_-hat proposed changes have I

3 I insignificant impact on ;:he envi::enma it. . . . ," or: 4

                                          " . . . . represents little potential 5                   hazard to tas health and safety of the public."

6 An example of this need to assecs risks for each

        /

reactor spant fuel site is the situation at the Byron Plant I site, 16 miles from Rockford. Earthquancs are of particular 9 concern at the Byren Plant sits, since it is being built t 7'l l on multi geological faults of indeterminate age, which were i i grouted to withstand possible atress.  ! (E The plant site is very close to two major i 12- fault lines, the Sarhaich and the Plum River. The Plum i l' , River Fault line was not included in the Final Safety and 15 , Environmental Statements for the plant since it had not been 15 discovered wh-m the ctatements were issued. 17 No strain gauge test te determine time of i 78 most recent movement of the faults found en the site was done.  : IS Application for permission to modify the fuel storage pool to 20 increase compaction has been made, and the plant design is , 21 considered similar to that of Zion, t 22 4 In fact, all of Northern Illinois is an sarth-E3 ) guake area. And, according to a Chicace Tribune article 26 I  ! Of October 13th, 1976, by James Pearre entitled, MTnat's I y 25 3 Going on Under Earth's Quaking skin:

            'h a
                +

49 h

6'

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s a ., g _. ..,.a .. s u.. ..... _4 ... c e . . _4. _ 2.. r, c. u . r e _ c... " ". e c. 4. _' .4 + 4 e. ., . 0 ' in Ucrthern Illinois on tha ===. of sar.ha.nche faults r a uo hcvs - to hope this earthquaka doaan't happen. I hace included a rt. p -

                                                         ,        _   n      .

whc.. . . ., g ., - a...i 1.c..ser4 .j.

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                                                                                                                                                                                          . .. _                                 .. -                         ?.n*...          _1-                                 ,
                                          ...         , i, a            2egulatory Cornissicn regulation to be built to.withat2nd ".ecs
                                                                                '4'a.' " ^'.a.
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1 l. radioactivit"a included in acent f=21 pccis and in the reacto . .

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o co...,ac+4 cn o f #u.=1 47 #..* __ o_ c a l a~ v. '?. _' .'.-.4. ~._ ' a.. 4 F. .w- #..

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                                                       .           radioactive for hundrade, thousand:                                                                                              --

and in the ccsa of ,

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a -a d.4. gqh.4- ". .J. %7 y to the envircnment.

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                                                                    '   e , .'. _' ' ra s "..= .' .v      .
                                                                                                                  .'.9 2 :. 4 3
                                                                                                                             .                 "_.v$                 . . .ed.

1

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                                         -. e 4.)....

M. . g f,.g 1. j A E. . s. w.. 4. /t 1. g .*

• w 9

9.'A. N p y * .= I .I.4 4. A. .*i I F i. . . . . - . ._w -

                              .,_,..,,..-,,.,.__,..m.,                                        ,   *.m. , .,                  *.w,             ,y,         ,,....r~                      .. . ,             m.   . . ,      , _          s,, . ,                - . . ,            mmm-              , _ , , . , , , , + ,

236 agbl3 compatibility for, 2

                                               . . . . sites already having long-term 3

surveillance commitments for high-level waste

    /          A should be used. . . . "

5' l -- mean than all light-water reactor sitas which fit this description regarding plutonium, even after de-7 commissioning, mean they will be used for long-term storage 8 disposal sites? What will be the social and economic costs 9 of needed long-term surveillance and care for these cites? 10 Energy conservation and une of renewable recource a

            '             should ba considered as alternatives to incroacing usa of
            <n nuclear power until storage solutions are found.        Tho'Laagua 13 national energy P0sition states:

I4' " Top priority must be given to 13 conservation; ranewable resources, especially solar heating and cooling; bioconversion and 17 wind; and F.he environmentally-sound use of coal." j M Thank you for the oppertunity to present my 10 testimony at this public hearing.

            *O (Applause . )

es {j CHME'E! LUTO?is We'll take a briaf recess o,  ! now for about 10 minutes.  ! i a  ! 3 i (Racess.) 1 . 24 .' I' ! s' t I t

    -              i    .

l . l

                   .t i                                                                          .

9 11 = i l e

l' j i 237 ' I ,-

l. $-

l. la- mobi CIG.IR'Uli LUTCN: Let's rssuma, nott, the 14mitad

, appearances.

3- i LI1!ITED A??EARM:C2 STATE 13MT OF 3ETIf GAL 3REATI!, I. ah4 RESIDEliT, R00'.70RD, ILLIliOIS i 3'I i MS. GALFJ. EAT?.: My m-= 4s Seth Galbreath, and  ;- s 6L I'm from Rockford, Illinois, frca Sinciscippi Alliance for  : r

                                                                                                                    . i
                                                                                                                     ?-
          ?             the Envirennent, 734 Parkview Avenus, Ecckford, 51107.                                      I a j:                      ' The mambers of the Sinniss.t.ppi A1.:.icaca for the-
                  .                                                                                                 t

e. Snvironment are unanimous in opposing any an=.ansion of t (4  !>

1, . E d Commonwealth Edicon's onsita waots storage pools. To do so

f. 4 )

i' ';. would be an outragccus breach of faith with the residents of l [

• 12 h northern Illinois, who nmr consanted to the ple.nts beccming a -

4 a

         !? [I long-tarm weste dumps.

li M llt This past Friday we brought nuclear engineer  ! it i; O.: Dr. Richard Webb frem Ohio to address a two-day tro::kshop. - 4 y . g I; Dr. Webb explainad to us how nuclear disastars could haopan. 4 p l. ' ty g We were familiar with the conc 2pt of e. cora meltdctin, of ' n. nf pcoursa, but he sxplained hcw disastars of tha spant fuel u ni li ster ge pool are at least as likely, possibly mors so, and o p;; i could be even more apocalyptic. z.: [a The Occmenwenith 2disen s_:cicesperson en the canel '

        .s..c.      j d.:nied it nil end raf arr:d or. Ucbb te a stud./ dena at S adin. .
                    .ri
        .e. . '. on Sunday Dr. Webb cenaulted bv c. hens with the sandia apokas-c.. ,           man who confi=ad Dr. Wth's contentions.

Ii .

        .c a.       0..                Obticusly packing the pool tightar ca.: do noe.ing 84 94 z           ,-   m ,   --    -,-r . ,mr -- , - - - , m e            ----.-m-- - -r--a. ,.-e----,  ,,~+   -

l 238 I mob 2 1 but increase both the probability and the consequences of such j 2 q an accident. It also lots the government and the industry 3! off the too.4 - again -- on the waste disposal questica.

  'r 4i                         Commenwealth Edison insists that there is no 5L           alternative, since the goverm.ent will not allow disposal of 1

6L. the fuel. Coms nuclear industry spokespersons are caying i 7 l- that the Interagancy Review Group report has solved the waste 1 3I problam. On the contrary, those who read the rapcrt find 9 that it expresses only a fervent faith that the answer will 10 be found some day. But Ccmmonwealth Edison continues to i 11 build reactors for whose wasta it has no storage, en faith, i 12 l again, %at they will be allowed to pack more and more spent 13 fuel into their bulging pools. 14 Meanwhile, Illinoisans and all Americans are I 15l losing faith in the canipotence of the nuclear industry. 16 l Commonwealth Edisen consistently overactimates electricity 1 1 17 ii demand and builds expensive and unrsliable nuclear plants je{ which are not needed. The figures to chow this belong to a of hearing, but a halt to continu2d automatic i 19 j different type 20 expansion of the spent fuel pool will help slow Comed's head-21

                      #    long rush to build more plants of tha nuclear cersuasion.

22 '; Ns would all be better off if that happenad beca2ssl i 23 ' ratepayars are finding the atomic age unaffordiola. I

                      <                                                                         l 2-4 j                        Wisconsin's Environmantal Decade agancy found in 33 ,           a careful study that nuclear :sacters with coo Lug towers
 ._./                  j

i. I a .

                    .}

f i 239 e q L L mpb3 produced s1cetricity 83 percent =cre enpensively -- 33 percent  ! L o  ! 2j more erpe.sively - than plants burning high-sulfur coal with i 1-4o 3J scrubbers. That report was done by e.n cnvirc nantal group, r 4d but the state public utility commission fotnd it well dona . 5{ and very persuasive, and vo cd Wisconsin out of the nucicar {- 6 Ii age. We hope that that will stick.  ;-

                       *l 1

71 . Illinois, the Saudi Arabia of soft coal, would i 1 8 do well to heed that lesson and imitato it. i A first stap is to slew the building of racctors i ei n to !!. by refusing to expand the spent fuci stcrase pecle.

                         .-                                                                                          4 1 .!                                  Thank you.

12 (Applause. ) 13 , LIMIT 2D APPEA3ANCE STACE!EUT OF MITCI".JLL 32LGIM 1.a, , MR. BELGIN: My name is Mitchell Belgin. I have *

               ,3 ) a dagree in chamistry and a Iainer in calculuc, biolo?y,                                           i I
                's.
                .'         ,           o.hysics, and .chilocophy.             And I work as a chemiet at ths            .

g f 17 ' DeF1*.zant of Natural Resources, Madison, Wisconsin. 33 - This is a report, a drnft report, 2:acutive Offics .

 -                                                                                                                      )          .

19 ' of ths Presidant, Office of Scienca end Technology ?clicy, },

                            '                                                                                            I 20 '                    Isolation of Radioactive Wastes in Geologic Repositorias:                         g
                            .                                                                                            I

m. ,

Status of Scientific and Technological KncIladge, A '"crhing l 22 2 aper for the Interagancy R2 View Group on Muclear Nest , 23 ; Manag ment prepared by the Subgroup for A1:ernativs Techncicgy 24 Stratsgies. There are two charte hero, cnd if you'd lika I can ; 3i i, . I ii 4 e

240 i i l' al 3 mo.b4 1l. make it ave.11eble to you. Ths Timc Sinca Discharge of s. cent 1 Fue*. is on. .1rs.n, and the last nu -her undar this is cne i E I Oh million years, and the cn2 befora it is 100,000. And d' .

                                -                                                                                                                              4 I                                                                                                                                   '
  /                  d,                   Radioactivity in Curies per Metric Ton of Heaty "stal had --

I

                                                                                                                                                               }

g[ after 100,000 years encre is 21 curies per metric ton of I ai. heavy metal originally charged to a reactor. That's four 7l times the exposura rata allowed par annum for P. workar ut the i e.., ,; c. lant. And in a million vears it's ten curies. That's still n. i'. more than the exposure rata allcwed to workars at a nuclear

y. L ,

ccuer c11nt.

                    ). t      ,                              If plutonium is cracontrr. tad, if it is reprocessr.d, i

e after a. rJ.111on years nine c*rias per metric ten of plutoni'.ra. I I I Now, even though it might not be r dioactiva, we w t , l still have a heaw catal. That's something else. L. :j - i gj . Tha current rafarcnce form for high level was b : i

                    !s i.n                 assumes that the uaste is hemocaneousir distributad in boro--           .

I 1.,, .. silicate glass, which is than placed in a c:ntaiment of mild l steel for disposal in salt or stainlass steel. One prchlen bn

                                 '                                                                                                                                l with borosilicate glass is that scma highly solubla phasas                                                            j 10

• 6

                    ,                      ara produced as the glass devitrifias.

_0 g There ic slso n: cant evidenca that contact with , e

                       ., li'              transurized ws.ts at 2M to G00 digr:2s Cantiy:W --musraturi.si                                        -

1 1

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                         ,q,,               Mat ::culd ccmr near @.e. unsta in the early yer.rs of t.2                                                             i m.,                                                                                                                                                   i 1

a, e.a j ;torage rapidly alt 2rs the her:silicata glasc and prometes i.

                    . i,i interactions bat. feen vasto and both sh:13 and hasalt rechs.
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_- 4 nv s _4 9. ; c ga., a.e n. - . .. 9 s . I  ; 2 . IA . If . rou dcn't understand hat I'm talking .about -- ,i ' t

c. .,

                               *? 1. a lot of poopic harc can't eith?.                                                                                                             -       thtt's"the problam e.but.

3 3' you should, sinco you'ra deciding cn thaca issues. . A i 4

                               *     !                                                           C ". .~ *. n '_' v ' - -_

• n s - "_ _- _.a. _d ~_~ a 'c.$." - ~ 'wa.d...d a c., ~^n * .". -

                                         .i                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             .

f O ?' instad trash arc scr nlly unclosed in mac.'.anically saalad

F '

6 cteel containers. The Orcblem with ^.he t"p.a of wasta is that 1 l t ?, ,. it gansratac cc bustible cases, hvdroc.,on nnt mathane. by  !, . , l' 'h i

1. . ! radialysis and pyralysis during sternga.

3 i[ M F. Thesa are also =c=buctible radioactive gases.- ' E

1. 1. .

4 i 13 , These gases esenpe.grcdually "ren the unwnldad containers  !-

                                            .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3. :

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m x,,, s h m e.g .=. m..e gag 3g .4.h ga.a.y Jo w 1, ee.a.m.o

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I I 242 mpb6 1 DOE is resolvect. 2i The currertt status of h cwladne in research and l 0l , levelopment -- and if I say RSD that means reccarch and

  #       4                       development -- programs on      vaste rock intaracticns were the 5                      subj'ect of a recent conference. The chemical interactions 3                     between wasto and host roch, the eff 2 cts of temperature in 7l the presence of a fluid phase ara heat understood for basalt.

t ' 3IfEvenso,additionalworkisneededenthacomp12xchemical 9 propertian of brines and other subctances containing many 3 to ionic species. This report is of July 3, 1978. I want you to 1! l i 12i: pay attentien to how many tinas I'll he ce.ying "Mven so, I

o. 1, additional work must be done".

I-1.5j This ir a govarnment report, i la-l The principal mechanical affact from the, waste J t ,3 , will be the developmet in time of ther:w.1 strassco in the  ; i i rock masc 3 ,round the repository. Heatin will gen eato 17 t 73l compressive stresses in the h = Ai'te vicinirl of the reposi-e l' 19 tory with associated tensile strasa as beyond the ccmprascion  ; 20 zone. And more data ara being developed. It seems relevant { r 1 21 j r.o . e. e_. e The e:: tent of thac a and relatal eff scts T.uct be "4 ;a evaluated by means of the sciance of roc!: mechanics and wil_ a aa w,

                            ,e involve 9.cquisition of data fr?.: both 1&oratorf and i.2 s i . ..

I n It machanical tasting, which means onsite tasting, in ordar tc il s d

i i

                !i                                                                                                                        V 1

4 i 9 4 b 1 243 1

ob7 davelop a.nalvtical medcls of a r pecitory sita. It should ba

 .          ' .P1                              '

1ig emchasi.:cd, hcvevar, that =cdals validatad bv such data for 6-i tl  ! Oe 1 short ".ern oc2 rational psrieds and near-field mschanical effectb 9 i i I cannet ha valif.s. tad. in the sama mannar for 1cng ter: and far- i c j\' t

i. t i 5 i{ fiald affects. I o, i

. 6I, Because of the grs?.t 1cr.gth of time esquirad for l '

            ~

measurable effects to be observed at larga distances away ' i i Sl from the repository, confidence in the ability of such medals 1' I Sj to predict far-fiald daformations over icng perieds of '4e , M will necessarily have to ba bcsed on the accuracy ci shcr.- Mi term predictions and increased understanding of 1cnc term i 12 ! processes. Mcnitoring for scra period yet to 50 datarmined i i l' nb -- yet to be determined - will be usefn1 to assure the accu-i. M: racy nd safety of t".e prad.ictive models and to provide an ]

                  ;                                                                                                                       i 1

13 jl early warning system shculd ths cede.ls prova to be unreliabla. { I i

s !

If I were ever to casa an snpcrinant en %2culadga l i  : i

                                                                                                                                               ~
          ,,1              like this, I'd b.s turcun out.

o , . a 3l - Additional 19 - it ha.c baen pcstulated that a ic; I 19 ; pem eability asdia such as shalc or basalt, inflow of watnr , I i _on.) i into a rac.ository might result in hyd:c-fracturing of the

                    ..i                                                                                                                    I i
         .e. .t I repositorv roc:cs due to therral exp;nsion of tha :.'-ter.

4

                    .                                                                                                                       't
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         .x..           i  the ccc-clacad hyrirc-fracturing aignt antend frcs r.hz rc.posi-                                                      ;

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torv - into ov rlyinc acc,uifars is undar appraiac1 using ground-

          . . - . water medals., da.-da~da-da-da-da.

c2 .i i 3 e i

                                                                     .                                                                         I

t 244 mpb8 1 One section is methodelogy of risk assessment. 2 Uncertainties asscciated '. tith the results of risk assessment 3 are of four types. First is the uncartainty caused by lack / 4 of data. Detailed site exploration will of course provide 5 data for use in the site specific risk assessment. Second, S uncertainty results from lack cd esparience. This type of 7 uncertainty involves identification of mechanisms and scenarios. s It is only partially r=duceable by continued research. 9 Third, uncertainty exists due to natural varia-10' tions of physical properties. In principia this uncertainty 11 is reduceable with extensive field research and analysis, but 12 practical limits ars imposed by cose, time, and the need to u protect the integrity of the site. Bear that in mind. 14 Fourth, uncertainty results from the inability 15 to predict the future of long term geological and climatic 15 processes, and of social evolution. 100,000 years we're 17 talking as a minimum scale to have to protect wastes. 13 These uncertainties are predominently not reduce- 1 19 able but can be estimated by careful selection of appropriatt 20 scenarios. 21 An important limitation to 'he ability to assess 22 risk lies in associating probabilities with geologic processas 23 both for long term events and for those of immediate engineer-24 ing intarest. Development of probabilistic models in geology g3 is recent, but advancement of the techniques if proceeding

                                                                                  ;   i i

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245 2c1 ebl 1 What I'm really trying to say is that if I'm 2 wrong, well, 1t means that pecp12 will have to tighten their ' I 3 belt a little bit and we'll have to uca cur ingenuity to  ! l I 4 develop alternate means to provide energy for what I con-5 sider many times useless activitics, but that's not the ques-6 tion here right new. 7 If you're wrong I fcel sorry to be in your souls S becaus2 you're playing with livos, not yours, although you 9 are playing with yours, but you're plahing with a let of l0 people's lives and you should bear that in mind. 11 We havo Dr. Webb here, probably to be an exiled 12 scientist. Mechanical enginears with a ecmbined knowledge 13 of 56 yaars, nuclear engineering experience, resigned from 14 General Electric in moral protest to the practices going on 15 there in terms of nuclear pcwer. Nuclear worker Karen 16 Silkwood died under e::tremely ' cuspicicus circumstances tio 17 years ago, martyr to the cause of nuc1?ar safety. 18 Ucw two other une.rplained deaths have occurred. f 10 An attorney for the Silkwcod family says two vitnesses he j 20 had scheduled to interview about possible illegal sur- ' l 21 veillance in the Silhuced case both dizd very suddenly, l l l i One of che witnesses, accordingl 20 reportedly of heart attacks. i e 23 to the lawyer, was Leo Geodwin, the head of a private 24 surveillance training center in Florida. Goodwin died

                                                                                            *1 23'    shortly before he was scheduled tc be interviawed by                  l k

4. If .

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                                                                                                - ,di i
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            .p                                                                                               i eb3      -

1 'investigatorr and just threi day ; after he~ had agreed to .!

                .i                                                                                         .

t

           .     :a                                                                                        ,

21 ' testify in the Sil:eveed case. 1 a n  : a

           -1h' The ir.g,or claina the.t the ,d N H cal .w.te befell           !'    i
 ,          .       .I                                                                                     ,
           't if          Thomas aunting, former hee.d of the Okitheme. Euraan of Inves-                 ,

o

             .i                                                                                                   ,

[

                 .n tigation. Bunting clso died three days after he was sub-                   I
           . d                                                                                         1 nb                n.oenaed to testifv- in a . civil suit brought hv- the Sil:arcod              t q:                                                                                             1 h
              .y.

e family.

           &t . .!

w 5' Karen Silhiced uas a worker for the Kerr-McGee i

t. .

9[ . facility and she vas on her way, as I note. to the.'Mr/ York  ! li Oj 'y Tines reporter. Sha'd been werking for-some 73ried of time j. J with Kerr-WcGe.3 and had uncevc3 red evidence as to improcer ' (. I

                                                                                              ~

l , IE!, handlin<s' ci radioactive waste and imoroc.er laanagGMent whers

j <

9 10 l she was working. And on'her way to a meeting with this .,;. 9 L i4 reporter, her car was knocked off the road and e.s l* said,. i nl - ji

D 45 under extremely suspicious circumstances. That's one death  ! .

                   .                                                                                       i N                    related to the nuclear industry.                                              ,t   s 17 !.i                              Tha secrecy which this techno1cgy is lad:ned                 ~!
                   }     ,

is !. with is incredible, and this is how v.cu have to bring e.cwer 10 to this country. And I'm not sure what your name is in the  ! , l 20 'l middle, Mr. Ccamissioner, but I'd like you to know that I'm fI

4, 21;, real surnrisad ths.t these ccher tuc eeoole listen to :v.sry-i

                        ,                                                                                    ,i f                                                                                    1
                                                  '2-=
        ^J. d r,

one who comes un .

                                                        =nd I've never seen ucu li2 ten cc
                    ?i t-anycocy who ccmes up c,. ara.

t ..

u have a sm. .:.2 cn y.e.r face.

u

                     >\

04 ij We've taken. sone pictures. I would like to brir.g th2m to , , i t >

       .25                   .seme nawspapers wh2re I'm Jacs in ::adison.

.. p i-

                 -et                                                                                        .

r 248 sb3' 1 I' hope you have scre interest in what 3 going en

                                                                                                                                                                              ]

2' }. hera. I'm not getting paid and I have cora interest here i i 3i than you do and you're getting raid I t

      '                            1                                                                                                                                          -

46 Anyray, r.here will be nore pecpla coming up to t I  ! t 3 'I say a few things. I-hope ycu listened to what I had to say l i 6 frcm the government report.. If anybcdy vould-like'this.I 7 can make it availabla.to them. 8 (Applause.) i LIICTED APPEARANCE STATE:ENT OT MS . LAURA KONTE't, G , 10 j RESIDENT, LAKE VILLA, ILLIMCIS L 11 i MS. XONTIR: My name is Laura Kontor and I reside it 12! in Lake Villa, Illinois. 1 13 I an wondering why the federal'gotternmant appoints l 14 another federal go'rernment agency to decide what ws, the 13 - people in the United Statos of America, haveuto live with I 15 instead of appointing qualified sciantists to.do the evalua~

                             .t j               bicn who are not so biased in the close network of the                                                                        I 53               natienal government as is the untional Regulatory Commission.

tg ' - . The faderal government and Commonwealth' Edison t 2c treat us, the people, as though you were growing mushrecms, 2- kept in the dark and fed bullshit. j For eno, I do not value my lida any mere, seeing I 22 } I

                                       !                                                                                                                               l 23l               that God sees that all thingc are alike and benutiful, yet 1

2A l Cec:nonvealth Edison assumes the right to come barging in. i t l  !

                                        !       infiltrating our land and ecology.                                                    All Sings alive hava             li      ;

23 , se *

                                                                                                                                                                       ?
                                      }                                                                                                                                   .

el d + ~ _ _ . _ . _ - . _ _ _ - ._ ..~ _ - _ _ . , , ~ . . . . _ . . _ . . ~ . _ , _ . . . _ , . _ . - _._ __ , - _ . . . - _

F i j 1 r 249

                .i I

t , eb4 7I . j'Ist es much right as you do to litc a 1salth,r. no-~ 1 '4fe l . t.

             iU in-the fashicn it w2c intended 'c be frcs the very bsginning                                                    I il l
            ? ",1        inste:d of the wc" you want us to, 1

I S Iip Mhtt real ric.ht do ycu h:to to commit .c.remeditated! f murder of the environn:nt?  ?. quota fren Judge Solomon en-t E) plains why this is: Freedom is the :.:lo, regulation encep-o e I 7 tion. 6' Ycu kncu it's.too bcd that the ultimate rslianca-for the deepest needs of civilisction must be found cutside 9 :t

         'O l            of their justificatica under the g"n :ntecs of'the Constitu-i t1              tion.

12 j Thank you.

                  )

i (Appinusc.) 13 l

2. 4, 7.a.M ., T.e D .s.e

                                                         . .n _e.w. R A. u..v~ vu~

ST.a mm. t_en.T nF. o,_r.e v..m.e.m._e.R , i 15 ' RESIDI}iT, L.C*.I VILLA, ILLINOIS is ,, MR. KONTER: .91 se=3 is Rich Xonter. I : sida - I . j7 in Lake Villa, Illincis. f I. t

          ;. :                         2notione eside, ws're de ling with -hing: herc                                             !

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and vcu are const:ntiv. being told that the scf gn=rds a t

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available, that problems won't happen. I h:vs found that all !

                   ,4                                                                                                             i i
         .n. .      ,

en:cuc.h av reading cne mis: ka cfter ancther han been covered I i w 2n. with the st2mp of " Top Secrat" by the .M.c=ic 2nerm. -

         ..              Occmission r bv. the        .

c73rr=ent, under the auspicca of C0:55 2$ ? ' cr whoever happens to 1:e running the pr.rticular pinnt er re- , p;- processing area, et cetera.

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r. . !' acate tha whole realm of the ctcmi: in9eraction . Whct ye knc's i- ,

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3% about 12. ..e :'s a.;l open la pr:.nc. ..cu can pick up a good

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 /          4 ).n             book. It w!.11 tell you how to make a hemb.                 I-mean these                             f I

hi 3g aron't things that thould b3 c12.c s .'.fiad-- Thos.i sra things l' G ;L that should he clacsified as top secret. c i.

            /l                                Mcw when there's an acci. dent at:n plant, uay              .

3 ! the Seaherg plant, and the very pool that we're 'alI:ing c about I , e > l:i gy at Sicn is laahi.g dcun at the Sccherg plant,. cad it';- l

s. -

t0 9 ccvorad un with the stamo. of toc secret i I don't undcratand a,

          !q j         I vhere that's in the public int u wu.-            I don't understand                                                    r h

p-- vhere that is a =sttor for national-security. t .  : n 33

                               -              Matione.1 security sounds more lika 7 hen ths

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                       ,i     plant has a problem when.that plant has an cecident that c

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         .s P,             could be endangering the liv 20 of Scucb.nds and thouscnds                                                 r g                    of peopla, the matter for national security shculd .a te put'                                                      ,;

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            *y this stuff right cut in front, not bury'it'with the stra.p of'                                                     !-

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          .,e                 top :acrat.

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          .             1 Kow ': don't know how you, sir, and the 3 card hero ,

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l.' can get this information. I ached a few minutes ago seme-

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e. + j' body who said what "c- had tc :: is fil2 c ?rcedem of ,i

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            .                  Infcr:stion .c4 end wr an they deny :.t
                                                .                            t   then you sue them.                                       j      :-
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                     !!        Nell, I tall'you if I had the time and/or the menay I uculd                                                       l<

a t . U; dafinitelr do it, and I'm pr:bablu c. cine. to t::" . te de it , i(

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anyhow with whateva -littla resources I can nanage to nnstnr . . 9.1 , t q i k, ' . i

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it. jou a 98 percent crobcbility . that there wen't be an accident. l.

                .,      y That                two percent is not worth 200,000 lives.                                                                                                                                                                 ,

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                                                                                    !M m2ttar hcw you cut the muttard, wa:re so deep                                                                                                                                      i f.
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                 .s b                                                            3afaty StandardG.                                                         '"ohn Ocfman and Arthur Tamplin
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a " safe" desa of radiatica, it would cause 37.,000 a::tra I f* cancers per year. 17 ';t

             'C.'                                                                    All right.                                      That was ru.done and the anotat was n

n IJ Ps taken dcyn to one percent of the cid allowances. After that, b O d.s, Dr. Gefman has calculated tha.t full davelco. ment of the

1. '- nuclear power program UCuld incrd:P ~e O IM.ng ciL.00r dJS.sh3 in

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252 1 l eb7 I Is it really worth that to have an electric can opener? l E-All right. Now."icn is in a situation where you 3' can shut down one reactor and run on the other. Well, you - ( 4 have two years to build a coal plant with a scrubber that i 5 - could use the turbines that are in the second'rea,ter for l l.

                      'the actual power. supplies, becausa all the atcmic reactor is 5

7 is-a hot. water boiler. No matter how involved;you get, that's 8 'a11'the dang thing is. 'It's a lump of metal that gets so 0- hot that it superheats water and'will use that to drive steam e

          'f0          turbines.

11 You can build a coal plant outside on2 of those I 12 reactors and within two years you can dhat down both of these 13 reactors and you won't even dim a light in Illinois. 14 He've get more coal in this state than prac-18 tically any other stata in the Union nes. Why ar2 we sitting 16 on top of it'and mining uranium and paying tha Indians and 17 of course we're ripping that off, clso, where wa're mining i 13 the uranium frem. Ninety percent of uranium that's mined, by 1 10 the way, is mined off of Indian reservations. . .

.          20                        The uranium is selling for a-tremendous amount 21           of money. I nean you're talking 500 a pound. And tha Indians.      <

i ! 22 . are given no more than.a fraction of a dollar a pound ,! 4l 23 for that uranium that is mined off of their land. 24 The atomic structure'ia so stated right ncv tht: i 1 25 just'to' keep thanselves greased they're inflating the pricet ! 8 6h Il .

. . _ _ ~ _ _ ___ _ 1.;.  !, I I ) i i 253 4 ' i eba of the products that thev told' ten originally would be ava- =

                         ! j1                                                                                                                       .

I 5

                                        - abic to all of us. for eens; new it's for a great dieal or                                           ;

ii  ! A3 vears.

• A.d the truth of the matter-is it is more lika seven i

                            . l .                                                                                                            I. y r                       .

t i, er eight years, unless they perfect'the breedar reactor.  : 1 i 0 They aren't going to perfect the breeder reactor.  ! . 9 l'-l Another fact: The Fermi reactor in Detroit had 1 1 7 a partial gore neltdown and Detroit -- and t.his is a quote l.

                         ?                 frem one of the scientists that worked on the Detroit                                                     l 3'                reccter:    "We almost lost Detroit.'

10 What kind of a cuoto is that? ' tiith all of the Il safeguards, they had a partial core meltdown. j 12 .Right new it is your responsibility. -' iou can 13 even turn this thing around. "ou know the reason whv they d  ? 4 t-14 want to expand the ensi'te stcrage. It's not because thev

• i' i

1

                      !$                   think that they can put a couple of extra rods hers~and save U3 !                a little bit of ncncy here and this kind of thing, but it's                                          !

l  !

                                 +

3 17! becnu:e their-reprocessing plants don't work. , o is . The places whers they're hurying this garbags, i

                                 ?,!                                                                                                             .

t is ! people are ecming out and saying they don't vant any part of , t 1 20 lid it . - The Wall St:sct Journal had an article and the lead + i

5. :l*. centence in ths Jctrnal *.123 97111 Ocvs glx; in the darh?'

22] And that's a ssricus, sericus quota. a. b*I { ,

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q 254 2A2 wb1 1' Plutonium, the most dangerous, or one of the most 2 dangerous elements we're talking about here', entsrs the' food 3 chain. The plants call it iron. All right. They assume

     'r-       '4   3     'it's iron and they suck 'it from the water up into . themselves .                                                 I
                   .I f                                                                                                                        I 5j  i They consider it a premium                        iron and taey put'it rignt up
 .              S'         in the top leaves.

7 The cows, or us, eat those plants. At that 8L particular point our body considers the same radioactive O plutonium' an important thing for our body. It cuts that iron, 10 or what our body believes is iron, in the places it most 11 needs it: the mammary glands and the testicles. All right. 12 'ie may be talking about only barely noticeable l ' 13 traces of :ndiation into the environment at places like 14 Barnwell in South Carolina and in Morris here in Illinois. 15 But a bare trace is- the beginning cf what you should be 16 thinking of. Because they told you there wouldn't even be 17 a trace. And there is a trace, je ' In Amsterdam, naxt to one of the atomic dumping 19 sites they found. frogs with three legs. Is this'a small

 .             20          thing?      It's only a couple of frogs, isn't it?                                  But right 21          here af ter this quote -- and I'll' read . it again:

22 "If the AEC tightens their regulations 23 . to permit only 1 percent of the allowed, Dr. Goffman . 1 i 24 has calculated that a fully developed nuclear power 25l program would increase the lung cancer deaths in the I . _ _ _ . . . . _ . . . _ _ . _ . . . - . _ _ . _ ~ . _ _ . . _ - _ . . - _._.

                                                                                       ~

u > h H y 255 ,

                           !                                                                                                                                      i d

wb2 I !.3

                               .              United States by 500,000 a year after the turn of                                                                   .ii
                                                                                                                                                                       - 1
                                                                                                                                                                      'i 2 j;                  the cantury."             "                                                                                               '

4  :  : 0 'i How that's'a pretty strong figure. -

                           *\                                                                                                                                     .

f

 /'                     41 s' And then you scy they've got the safaguards.                                                             !.

I 1, 6 I, Well I'd like to' read you just a few of the places that they ! l 6 pl had their safeguards, and what happened. I 7 il 12/12/52. Over a millien gallons of highly 1 . O! radioactive water flooded the basement of the reactor build- ;f - i . 3 , ing. This was at that MRX e::perimental reactcr at Chalh-  ! 10 l, River. 9

3.i 10/12/57. Large amounts cf radi activity  ;

n . 22 !I I esc ped. Milk from 200 square miles of neightcring farmland i . 4 12 l had to be destroyed. They say it dcasn't get into the d  : tl I 1.? environment? It cortainly did. Isnd how did they dectrcy i i

s tihat milk?

a. ; -

I'll bring this plutonium thing just ene step .

                            ,t   ,,

r; ; further. Say I got it in my body, I die of cancer in ten

                       ;c!             years. All right.            My family opts to have me cremated.                             They a
                             'l

m. , o

                                      . don't really know what the cause of death was.                                 They have me                               .

a , 20 .! cremated. Do you think that plutonium '.y dear i i. 3; '. ! friends, no, it dcean't. The smoke ' :n cre::Intion carrias; 2 the plutonium en to sater the food chain again. And for

  ,                   .;;              100,000 years, or_how: aver icng the half-life a:ays R.ngerous
                      ;                of this particular element, that will remain in the fcod chain af ter _n ' re gone, after Ccm Idison is gona, aftar all a
               - ,,,-               ,               . , - , .                                                    a
                                                                 . . '        ,   .. .      , . , , _ , -    - - - .        -   . . . . . . . . . . - ~ . - - , ,

256 wb2 I the lawyers and all the bureaucrcts are gone, the plutonium, 2 strontium-90, the radiation will remain here. # 3 Your children, my children, the children of the

 /              4   world will live with cancer rates of 50 percent, with genetic 5   defects of 25 to 80 percent.

6 Are we really willing to pay this price? Are you 7 really willing to pay this price for electricity? C I've just described how Ccm:nonwealth Edison could 0 convert over to coal, use Illinois ' abundant supply cf 10 coal to repair the problem now stated. 11 We'll bring it one step further:-- Nell, there 12 are so many steps. 13 This is one of the articles that came out of a 14 current newspacer. "Thero are many alternative sources of 15 energy available." I wonder if anybcdy from ComEdison ever 16 reads this. Because the biggest prcblem shout this is the 17 profit isn' t there for the corporation. 18 But, you know, no matter how many times I read it, 19 no matter how many times I go over it, that's the only thing i 20 I can find wrong with these alternative sources of power: you 21 can't charge for the sun, you can't charge for the wind. 22 If we would have spent ene-nslf -- the government, when I say "wa" -- had spent ene-half as much en the solar  ! l 23 l. 24 industry as it spent on tne nuclear industry, our solar indus trt i I 25 would be to a point where it would be mera than ccmpatitive, ij l I' 1 l t . j i

3 257 wb4- 1

                - would almost put the radioactive industry right out of the 2     business.

3 (Applause) d At this particular point it cos ts about $30, [ 5 16 to 30 dollars, for a chip to lay on your roof to collect 6 solar radiation for electricity. Now in mass production, and 7 with government backing for the technology involved, if the O price of that chip could be brought down in half you could 9 pay for your entire roef to be coatad with these chips within 10 three years of running your house without electricity. 11 All right. Say they ecme through with a break-la through and, you know, " Hey, it happena," and they can .nanu-13 facture that chip for 25 cents, we won't even have to pay 14 for energy in ten years. And what's so wrong about that? IS Maybe we as people: can go back to living lives that are 16 involved more in our own personal happiness than the profit 17 incentive of the structure that we hava allowed society to la become. I. 19 I've read you some mistakes that have happened. 1 r i 20 The people that will talk to you later on from Octmenwealth I 2; Edison will tell you that the mintakes have been calculated l 1 l ' 2; out. I reelly think that this Commission might do sc=2 seriou4 23 good if it asked for some of these top secrat mis akes to be  ! l at declassified as top secret and to be brought out into the ,

                                                                                      !      1 1

25- open. There is no national security involved here except the j  ; s.- , l  : I

250 wb5  ! personal security of this nation. If there was a mistake 2 in the Seborg plant and their pool leaked out, then that's 3 something that you should- know about before you can make a e 4 decision about what's going to happen here. 5 What Dr. Webb talked about, about the pumps 6 breaking dowr. at the Zion plant. It's very, very pessible. 7 And -- all right: I'm a worker, obviously. Can 8 you dig this scenario? A valve breaks down. All right. It 9 has been involved in a radioactive circuit for a great deal 10 of time. All right. The sr.ount of radioactivity et this 11 particular valve is enough so I can only be there for six or 12 seven minutes at a time, and I can only go once. All right. 13 So you hire me and you say -- or you hire an 14 electric company or a plumbing company and say "Fix that 15 valve." I say "All right. It's going to take two hours to 16 fix that valve." 17 How many people are going to walk in there and. 18 put a hand on that valve in that two hours? How many people 19 are going to be absolutely sure that every nut and bolt on 20 that valve was torqued properly? How do I know that the 21 third person who went in there -- and we know for a f act that 22 statistics show there are a great many alcoholics and other 23 people that have problams, mental and otherwise. Ucw do you 24 know that they didn't go in there to work on that valve, too, < 25 torque down half the bolts on the cover and just have the rest

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. I N. { 'I i 259 i-W , l' u( tightened when semebcdy opens up the door and says " Hey,-

                                                                                                                   \

wb6 5 l 1 i i 2l your seven minutes are up, you've got to ecme out." " Yeah, 1- , 3p I tightened them down."  ! 1 C -Ajgl Mistakes. happen and we've got to ad=it to the l 5h fact that mistakes happen. And no matter what they tell you, i

  -                   6          dig.it, even if they give you 99 percent assurance that'no 7          problems are going to happen, it's that 1-percent.            Is that 3          1 percent anywhere calculable to 500,000' lives?-                                ;

9 Please help us out. 1d And, Mr. Ccemissioner, just two other things. 11 : After you had graciously allowed my name to be i 12 put on the list for information the gentleman from down here 13 told me that the information was available to everybcdy and 14 l that my name was no longer on tha M st . T vish you would 13 reconfirm that that I may be on the mailing list. I would tu very much like to be involved. 17 .The second questien, Mr. Commissioner, is: This 10 is a matter for the people. Now Justice -- I've forgotten 19 his name, who was cited earlier, stated -- and we did_a little  ;

   .                20           bit of research -- also stated that when we're            involved in 21           solving a problem for the pecple it's not the ru'les and i

22 regulations that are important, it's the problem that's im-  ! 23 portant. 24 :4cw you're going to be faced with people that have

                  - 25           meney tied up, their jobs are tied up, their entire lives i
                             !r

260 wb7 1 are tied up, and it's going to be very difficult for any of 1 them to get up in front of ycu and say "Well, we're not exactly! 3 sure about this point." Dig it? And if anyone of them would,

                   ?
       '~'

4 you know as soc.n. as they walked out the door, Bang, their 5 job is gone. All right. 6 Why can't you please appoint some sort of.a 7 group that doesn't have a tie to the Atomic Energy Commission, 2 a citizens group, a scientific group; .it's not really import-s ant who; but a point of view that would give you the opposita 10 edge. It I heard something a little bit ecrlier today that 12 ', upset me: we aren't liars, we're just dumb. Sir, I'm not 13 dumb. I know what I'm talking about. I may lose my job 14 because I came up here today, and they were a little bit upset 15 with me taking so much time off yesterday. I've got customers 16 waiting for me at the shop, and as soon as I've finished 17 speaking I've got to split. 18 Do you think I'm doing this cut of. stupidity? 19 (Applause) nd 2A2 20 21 22 23 24 2V

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1 262 mpb2 1. Are yoa interested in obtaining copies of previous-Z ly filad papers in this proceeding?' i 2 3 MR. KOMTER: Yss that involvo.s this case, yes,  !

               !                                                                             I 4        most dsfinitely, sir.

f i 5 May I also state thn': I would like, if the  ; I . S , comnicsion wouldn't mind, to m:ke a trip up.to Zion or have I 7 somebody make a trip up to Zion *o find out uhat is really , c e available in the public record al.d how easy it is to get l s ahold of it. I think that this, as a little personal j t 10 informatien, might be of some use to the gentleman hera, how li , 3; difficult is it, what do you have to go through.  ! i 12 I'm a worher. Is thc. place open after five?  ! , 1 l g; Do I have to taka some axtra time off work to go up thera l yl and get this information? Is it readily on file? Will I l g have to talk to half a decan pacpla, cr will scmebody know t exactly where it's at? ' t g' 2ublic record and public inform:. tion is someti=ec I mora difficult to get chold of thar. classified information. g l 3 i g g ,'. So I'd be mors than happy to do that and bring it in front j p,o of the Commission, tell them what I had to go through, tell  ; 21 , them what I had to do to find out this, the.t, ar.i the ether s t

          .        thing.

• i i

        ,;, i CE.UZGai LUTOH:    You mr.y do thd.t -- you maj take       '

gg a trip to the 2nblic Document F.ocm. MR. KCNTER: 2ight. And what decurants ars  ! 5[ , h -

es. .

            . . . . .syp_ ..                                  -

r,  ; I 1 6n :.s, f I mpb3  ! I' , c.vailab?.s and what documsnt; shculd have hs.sn avm.ilcble.  !. I i M, C!!. AIR *.fr.i LUTOM : Suraly ycu can do Fhat. t1 .i 3 i M2. MONTE 2:  %'d be mora th ^ '- .~..ar tc brinc it . -

                                                                                                                                                             .i I'                4                  in front cd the Ccemission.

5. Can' you tell me when tners might be a time, becauss!

                          . ,I 0 ',               obvicucly I don't have time today.                                                                                    ;    i
                            +

i

                     '? l                                         CliAIP14AN LUTON:                There should hav2 bean a published 1

J, . notice bv- now, e. notica - cublishing the location of the olacs - I 9' and the hours the.t it's opnn ac vell. Sc=ebcdy must have seen > l

m. . . .

                                        .t. e.

1i , Thc.t's usually what is f.on2. Was it done in this l'. casa? It orcbabl*r lists the location and the hours of tha 13 ? Public

                             ]:I                 Occument Roomp when it is coen.

I I i 1 4 l l 1.4 k9 AR. GOODARD: I hava a ccm. r of the initial notica i

                                                                                                                                                             }

a f  : g !' in this prcceeding, but I'm sura it was dena. This is standard: 13 0, procedure in all : 120 cases. I I

                                                                          ,                                                                                  4
                  ;7 d                                            CIIAI2:3.21 LU'"ON :             Hall, nc of n;w ycu dc2 t know      8 j

1.. i 13 whers the ?ublic Dccument Room is?

                               .\                                                                                                                             t p* I         1 MR. XONTER:          No, I don't.                All I kncW is it's in                      !

1 l

,                 en
                  --           ',       Sion, and --                                                                                                           ,!

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9. ,.  !. ,', C I??Mi LUTOM: I the".yhte N**. L Gcddar'#.f yOu gt.t.*' I

                                 ?.I
                  . a.. ,

hi~4 tiu address.

                  .n. ',,                                         :C. GCCDARD:            l#2.*, . The CiU41      F C.'O lic Libre *--(.

t'

                  .e a

20. 20"T2R: Yes wa de hc7c the addr.ans and th:

it

                                    $ iccation ci the Public Occument 2cen.                                                                                    ,

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                                                  ~._ . , - - ,- . .                   -. _ - ,       - .,          ~ _               - . . . - . _ . - _

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264 , 1 mpb4 T, CHAIRMAN LUTCN: The hours I really don't hcr1, E but I assena it is whatever the nor:aal library operating hours i 3i are. 4 s 4i MR. KONTER: VThich makas it difficult for the pub- ; 7 , 5, lic to utiliza it. j t 6, CHAIRMAN LUTON: Well, I'm sure we can find out i f 7,! and let you know. I t 3 MR. KOUTER: AS a matter of fact, I'll nake arrange!- i i S ments to do something about it today and I'll bring back to thei

      -to        N misalon the case of it, and hopciully it will b2 sems good                  ,

11 news.

        ;2                      Thank you.

13 CHAIRMM LUTON: You had a second requnst, I , 14 thought --

      .j j                      XR. KONTER:           Yes, I did, most defiaitely.

16 CHAImiAN LUTCN: -- having to do with this Board

       ; --      appointing an outsida panel, I believs.

3g Well, you str. tad it much battar than I could hers, gg and it was for what purposa? 20 MR. KONTER: To get a differant point of vicW, a l 2; point of view that isn't tiad up with tha menay of the Atomic r Energy Commission and the money involvad in the nuclear industrl. g,3 You have a probla= hora whare mest of the people I y who are talking to you get paychecks from the pacple that have ' sent them to defend their point of view. It might be a good I 2.; i i' 0 E

il 265 mpb5 1 idea to get a point of view frc::i sc= acne t;ho isn't m6 starily l

                   %              involved, who will not lose their job if Sey say Yec hers 0         .

6 was an accident at such and such a n1sc2. f 4}, (Applause. ) j 5 CHAImout LUTou: Ne're going to ccaduct an adjudi-6 catory hearing that will involve the cal' 4 g of witnesses. 1 7 }IThepartieswillbegiventhefirstopportunitytocallappro- < 0 priate witnesses to respond to all d o inqu'-ics that tha Scard, 9 must make, that the parties themselves fs21 they must put be- l 10 d ,, fore us. But we have the pcwer and we'll a:cercise it to call i i i 11 in our own witnesses 4# 4" h ed we cheuld bo dissatisfiad with i f:  : f 12 the witnesses produced by the partics. j is f There are people we can call cur::alvas if the need ' 14 arise, if the'information we fasl that we are being given la 15 incomplete. Ifwe'rbnotsatisfiedwiththctwe'llgatcur l l 16 own witnesses.  ; t 17 HR. KONTER: I'm sure the infc= nation you rocsive is will be completa and not erren20cs, very factual. 3th as mos 19 anybody can tell you, the simpia game of chess cannot be

  .             20               determined passed ths first two or three movas.

2; So if somebody givas you a scanario they can back 1 i , ulic it up with all the solid information th2y . rent. 3nt then Dr.  ! i  : n Webb could give you a scenario that you knc.7 for c fcct thcy 2,1 }. can't back up with an c=swer baccusa ha can give you a scenaricj i , l yi that says What if 23 ottne . . breahn down. , AM {i

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i 266 i { mpb6 3 7 CHAI2PM LUTCH: If this kind of thing arises 2- [; we'll hava to chcose between the testinony that's given by the ' 9

            'Oli respective sidac.                   That8a cur functicn, that's our job.

1 ( ~f . MR. KOtiTER: I undarctc.nd that. It u 5' I just think if the public was a little bit more 5 involved there might not be the possibility of the public ag4in 7 saying, Well, 1cch at this sham, they wotnd up doing it again, 3 they asked themselves whether it was all right to do it, esd 9 they told thenceivec Yes it vas. l 10 . CHAIRMA'! LUTON: Well, in tho --

                     .h
            !!                              MR. KONTER:        Not to innugn on your integrity, I'u 1 '.               sorry.

10 CHAIRMA:1 LUTON: What are the opportunities that 14 members of the public have who are not goi".g to be participan-15 ing partieu in the case to bring macters to our attention that ' 16 they want us to take a look at is tha limited appearanca 1; procedura. Mcw is cne of the tiras to do it. Another time i i a j to do ih is when we hava additional limited appearancas latc j 19 on. I, i MR. KONTER: The Seaboard plant I think is the l 20 ,  ! i  ! l 21 l major thing I eculd bring up. Thsy did hava an accident with l

                        ,.                                                                           .i 22 '!              their pcol. iTnat did they do about it?      Why ic it classific  !

w  : f. info;mation? Is it availabla to you? And if it has nothing 2'; , .l "1 2- -! to do vith natienc.1 accurity - which I don'4 believe a led: .

                         $6                                                                          j  l 23 ] in a concruta poc1 has -- why isn't it public informatica?

P, e

                         .i                                                                           .

I

           !                                                                            267 l

mpb7 1 I mean, they kaap ths scarv things m ay frca us. t 2! I know the people hero standing behind me hs.vs  !

1. . ,

I 'c 3 j reall" s had to de sc.2 hnavv research. For six months I've I i i  : i been involved in undarstanding what the Atomic Enargy / 4l i 5 cccnission has dcne and allcwad to happa*, what the corpora-G tiens have dens for profit. It's takan me a 1cng time to be 7 brave enough to stand in front of you and feel that I am 3 totally right in this matter. And I think, yes, for a great l' 9 il nany yoars I saw the Union Carbide Plant in Mcu York. When I l j i I 10 jf was 13 years old I got a walh-thr0tth. It ' .: something that t I I i 11 I'm cfraid many of thase 900p1o have navor seen, the inside j H , 12 of rn atomic picnt. I've seen the inside of a plant, I kncu 13 what it's lika. I'v3 1coknd down into the 2001, gi: wing. I , l' I 14 thought it was a gract idea. i 15 ; . As a matter of fact, it's not a bad ib a when you  : get right doun to it. 3ut the probicm is that sverv hiaa thev ! 13 :  : 17 ; have c mistnho thsy classify tha inscrmatics. l t t , u ,!o Now I have never ka:wn ev2n an exper.'.mant in  ! I 19 college to say, Well, we had a mistake, so we're going to cay d i 20 al that goes undarnanth hara and that's it, wa'ra not going to ' q ' I pay ny attention to that; that's classifiad now ud we'll ,

      ;2                  just %cep cn going.   ?:n*va got to   talto thaza mistrkaa, you'Je 2;                 get h ' pa'c then oct in tha cper.. ycu hnvc to shn%s tham out
      .- .               and zee unv thav. wara .nis.u.kos. And after a whila I think it 25                you'ra going to realiza, just as I have, by doing 20ma digging,;

se

268 mpb8 I that there are so many mistakes, we'ra pl?.ying with too many Z lives to allow it to continue. 3 CHAIRMAN LUTON: I think tha point you've mada f 4 is certainly appreciatad by tha 3 card. You named the plant. 5 You say thera has been soms kind of a spent faal pool accident C there, sad the information, so far as you ara aware, is not 7 availabla. O MR. KON!ER: That's right. I just hava hoc.rsay 9 information., 10 CHAIRMAN LUTCN: We'll sea what ua can find out 1; about that. If it conr.ains anything that we.calieve to be 12 islevant to the Zion proceeding, or potentially relevant, we'll 1;) examine it. 14 MR. KONTER: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 13 CHAIR:iAN LUTON: You're valecme. to (Applause.) 17 i8 19 20 21 22 23 24 23 -

..                                                                                        I l

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1 20 l 1 . l 232 wb1 , IURTHER LIMITED APPD_Je!CE SIATmIT OF ,  ;

                 ,.                                                                                                                        ,     i

. 4

                        !                     MS. CATHER..1G CUIGG                                                                         I     i I-a
                      -}                      MS. Ci" IGG:   I'm Catherine Cuigg, I mada a state-                                          i

( 4 - . mesc yesterday. I itculd like to add just a Su cc=ments

                 -                                                                                                                         I

I* 6 for the record.  !

 ~

3 , First, with relationship to the library, I have j . been to~the library. The file is act in the library itself, 1 3 it is in a building uhich is not even adjacent to the library. 3 } It is, I-believe, two blocks away. And it requires the avail- f

               ;c '

ability of a staff member with the appropriata heys and 11 responsibility and tima to go over and unlcck tha door and

              .j 6 i

i be able to sit there while youdo your research. I 13 I i' I also thought that the library was inadequats in 14 its inde:r of its rescurces. And I think that deserves some , 4 g.e $

           . a                                                                                                                            -

attention, too. l hi There are three quotoc ~ want to add to my remarks, 1 the first frcm Satte11e Northwest Labcratories. I

                ?3
                                                       Detailed systcaatic examinatiens of                                                .

19  !  : I fuel bundle materials have not been conducted l 20 - l-1 f specifically to define storags behavior because of

                                                                                                                                           ,   i the exeectation that the fuel will be rec.rocessed
                ~~
                            }          after relativelt/ short residence.                         If storage times n~~     l 1           of the spent fuel inventory are e::pset2d to entend                                                  ,

L '

                            .          into the 10- to 100-year tim 2frams, there is                                                        i,
               -~
                    . I i

m increasing incontive to dctern:ine whether any - Slow , i el 4

                                                                          - , - - - . - . - ~ - - . . . . . - . . . . , - - - ~ ~ _ - -

270 wb2 1 degradation mechanisms are operative." 2 The ne::t comment is frcm the Jet Propulsion 3 Laboratory of the California Insuitute of Technology.

 ,/       4                                 "The accumulation of spent fuel rods 5                 at reactor sites shculd be limited, since a continu-6                 ation of present practices into the indefinite 7

future would constitute a de facto form of nuclear 8 waste disposal." 9 I think it is particularly fitting to close with 10 a comment by Peter Bradford, Cc=missioner of the U.S. Nuclear 11 Regulatory Commission. He said, 12 "The Ameco Cadiz was safe enough right 13 up until the mcment that it went on the rocks off 14 the French coast." 15 It is our hope that when you look at the Zion 15  ; spent fuel pool today you will look deep, and remember the g7 seriousness and the urgency of the people's cencerns as ex-to pressed here today and yesterday. Is Thank you. 20 (Applause) 2; CHAIRMAN LUTON: When I get back to Washington

p I will have the effice in charge of setting up the local l 23 public document rooms take a paruicular icok at the one in

             !                                                                          l
         ;; j    '

this case. We have just gotten an indication that it's I g3l uns atis f actory . The hours of access-- thera aren't very many j i 0 l i ' il

271-ub3 1 hours, and ' to have to' have somebody cit there with you, and 2 tha documents . are perhaps incomplete. So I will see that tha : O' :; gets checked. perhaps the ' arrangements at the present locaticp 11 { 4ll can be made more satisfactory. 3< I

               .                        MR. BELGIN :   My name is Mitch Belgin. I was here 6

il - E.l . before. I just wanted to read -- to submit secathing I was

               .. f 7"          talking about yesterday.       These are the plans to build an'          1
.                 1 SM          atomic bomb.

O i 9 Also I would like M ask one question. Everybcdy ! -j 10 h here would li.ke to raise it. u 1 Ecw many people have received sclaries to be :P 1 12 g here today? Or, rather, hcw many people. ara not receiving 1 1 Il 13 i I salaries to be here? i 14 (Show of hands) t 15 It's interesting. l 1 16 tfhat the gentleman befere was talking about, 'which! I. 17 was kind of gone over with a broad brush, was that there is j 18 I one law that we learn in this ccuntry when we grew up, from i F is childhcod: Don't bite the hand that feeds you, otherwise you - l

                  !                                                                            :  i 0

. 2.0 i,1' dca't get fed. And any intelligent person, whatever ccticns 11 i 21 f they do, they - '4*e there is semacne in this country that 12 d feeds them. I 23 uh"O New any person who has an adequate, sufficient 23 q knowledge of nuclear engineering has ed'$=~ ko be (n) employ 2di If . 25 j{ by a public utility company, (b) works for the Mnc and hcs i f

                   !i                                                                             l a                                                                           .  ;

((

272 wb4 1 ' previously been employed by a public utility company, or (c) 2 goes through universities in which the funding for their i 3 programs dependa on extanding nuclecr power, all activities 4 dealing with proliferation of nuclear technology. Professors' 5 jcbs depend on the fact that that technology exists, that it 6 is extended, that it is expanded and that it grows. 7 There's a university class at the University of 8 Wisconsin in nuclear engineering for freshmen. And basically i 9 ' what it is, it's a 10-week propaganda course. They have i 10 l experts from the public utilities come and talk about nuclear 11 power and talk shout how good .it is and how great it is, 12 and start giving statistics like solar energy is mora 13 ; dangerous than nuclear energy because , people are going to i fall off their roofs installing solar cells. 14 l 15[ Now I just had an argur.ent last week with a pro-1 16[ nuclear who gave me this argument. He said 20,000 pecple a j i 17 ; year fall off their roofs, and they're going to fall off I 18 4 their roofs putting up solar cells. I 19 l (Laughter) 1 20 I'm not kidding. And I asked him how many people t 21 die in cars, and he said 50,000. l i 22I This is insane. That's what this is, it's i 13', ridiculous. O l 24 Look how much money has been spent to proliferata 25 this technology and justify it, just to justify it. Look at l .

                                                                                                                                               ' 3'
     ,                P                                                                                                                               ,

o '73 8 4:,  ; a ub5 1,, how much money we're spending on vaste, wasting money on l' i i f wasta. Please use your rational mindi this is wasta we're

• H '

f T talking about. J We're not talking about delivering things to (} ,, . 5U consumers. And I don't know what kind of 'hings. c We're not lii r.r i 'f talking about' lowering the suicide rate in this ccuntry . 7 Ij because people are fed up with growing up in a country where f. E h,I nothing gets done.

                          ,                                                                                                                       f i

D q}9! With the money th:t's been spent en proliferating j i 10 d nuclear technology we could have energy in our homes today,  ! Y-i

          ; ; d,                solar energy; not through mic cuave conversion, which is I
          ;f l                  another way the utilities companies uculd have chair hands                                                         i

s. s b  :

y; !! cn. it, we're talking about individual homes being sustained I O 3d J substantially wi'h c photovoltaic conversion of solar radiation,; d  : ej and also alternative forms of energy: bic ass conversion,  ; 31 geothermic, wind. The'. list gces on. , b

          ;j l                                            California has taken sc:a pretty gced steps                                             -

30 toward develcping solar energy. They new have scmething

                       ;~ -            .

i j g ;' like 150,000 hcmes.being supplied with energy by the sun. t.i 3,; ', And that's all due to a tax incontive program started by i1

              ;                 Governor Brown, which doesn't exist in many states in this country.
         .a.                  t And I'm absolutely convinced that I'm not wrcng.
         -   c                  Mot because of my salary.                               I was effared a job with E:c:cn                            .

_e_ , for $16,000 a year to start. And I'm not taking it. And I d i e

,              . _ . , . - -     - _     , . , .    ,.r-- y y   ,,.      -..~,.m. v.m.,   +,,,     ,,,,_w.w,.     , ...,,.-._.--,m,-        w

F 1 274 l wb6 I' won't take any jchs en that level. Because I know what , I happens when you get into these kinds of situations: you 3i are optad from the very beginning .ae w.use you are told what ' i ( 4i- to do, and you are given research to do. And that is not science.

   .                             6                                  Thank you.

7 ' (Applause) End 2B2 3 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 l 15 17 1 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 I 23

                                   .l ;                                                                                                                                                                            !'

i.

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3. T4!DERK:i: Ladies and ;entlet.un, I ' think

       <                            , ~                                                                                                                                                                                                                              .

1.:. the situation in our country right neu is analoccus to wh at e l' .

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1.1 2. > o . e . {.. Mc are cor.tnitted as a country to a policy thnt i I 4 7* ' '

    ,                                     .j           we are proceeding on and that wa ara justifying each stop t

o o f the wa'.r , '.iithout m:amining our cricinal - . oremise. L

                                 ,- e
                                  ~

d, :icu the originni premise was to davalop the I v., n

                              ~ ~ h atomic bomb.
                                                                                           '!.his is, in itself, accathiag that has continued. . ,

t. )

                              ' ' :i We are today creating atomic bcabc, a cctnt:f that is committed !

e,

                              ' " M. to creating hiller usaponc becomes blind co all morality
                              ,,            e                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i d in other forms.
                              .             a.
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                                                ..                                         This morning as I approached the haaring, v-'               t 9,

with acca difficultv. beenusa of the ww.ther and 'cacause of *

                               " I the traffic, the r:dio announced tha imminent birth of 4

c.  ;

l Heather Dilandic'c child. , i .%, s a.a

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                                 9          1cnncunced also a woman who had shot har child unborn.

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1 wcman lived,, the child was dead. 1 *r

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I 276 P agb2 1 only saying that perhaps in this room we can say Stop, step o1 i to the first thing we becerte. We become a'xclutely inured  ! i 4

                                   .. jj to figuras of death and destruction.

3 Mc view with equanimity a i f " ';- thaso things. Perhaps we enn even view the figures of l 5f 90,000 pecple dying -- it is, after all, only one football I 0- game's stadium -- I mean, who would miss that many people? 7 Prchably none of us. t 8 Cn the other hand, we're going to go down in 9 history far worse. We are the wc11 poisoners. A well poiscnert-p

                                 'O'            is someone who, in the past, would have beaa attacked by his li i           cwn tribo.              Whars are we ncv, attac%ina cur own?

Who are l i l i ?- 1 the well poisoners among us? l 13 I say Stop. And I ask every woman -- and as 3. 14 conscious woman who examined myself with my ethnic background i J if of German, I said to myself What wculd I have dens if I had i o 16 been in I*a:i Germany? Would I have turned away? 17 I've asked my friends about the atenic benb 10 and atemic energy. And I think I found the answer to the 13 German -- the German answer that they didn' t knew. ED In my friands, in my relatives and in my E.* neighbors I have fovnd there are people who don't want to knew,i i. 2:1 And the reason they don't want to know ic because it uculd  !

\

20 requirs them to ac. cr ha recuonsible cr de something and, ;l

                                                                                                                                   >  t L

2,:. tharafors,. if they plead ignorance they don't know, they're  ; o  ; 25 q not required to ask. I t t' i a 3 e It ab

114 277l 1 4

               -          i
                           '                                                                                         l agb3                            not required to ask.                                                           ;

1

             ~        u In 2:his recm, we have enough to begin.                        '

I ask 1 j that I be made part of it. I ask that you be part of it. t 4 I And we start with, maybe, the atemic bomb. And, if n must,

                      .!                                                                                              l n                                                                                                        -
                      ;               let's start with the whole atomic question of whether it is                    ;

f

               ~

• 9 ii a moral premise.

Thank you. 1 (Applause.) . 0d CHAIRMAN LUTCH: Is there somecne else? l-l 1, 4 0, P 4 FURTHER LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMEl.T OF i i i n'  !  ! y TERRY PECK i E EI ~ MR. PECK: I'd like to make a clocing statement

                       !                                                                                             .i e+ ti - to Cor:monwealth Edison and NRC.                                                                   !

a P MN4 I've been working with anti-nuclear peepic all b 9 -

           ,0 4           1 over the country and have contacts throughout Gerict.ny, i

16l ' And I would like to say that for every decision that's made t ' l7 in the proliferation of nuclear power, it's going to be met. ' l 1 I6 ' We're committed to non-violence. I don't think i Mi that we will ever, in the anti-nuclear movement hers in the '

l. .

.          20 '

v

                                    ' Unitad States, ever resort to violence.                 We're con:nitted to it 21,D          .            because we feel the terrorists are the pacple who cra e

221 prolifarating nuclear power, and not the peepis that I

                 ; .,                                                                                                       l 25                         ebject to it.
                 . 3
           ?.4 )            .,                        The numbars are still fairly sec11 in Sie 15 ,' United States and they're going to grew with 2" cry decision,                                         '

1

                   \

ir . 1.2  !

li l 275 l

,      agb4              and it's going to be a lot more cost.

I taL':ed about costs of decommissioning plants,

              ~
                    ' putting them away, uhat it costs, what it's cocting the

( 4 utilities. I might be sticking out my neck, but I'm going to say that every decision that's made is going to be mot 7 with civil disobedience. We will -- I don't care, across the o

              '.         country, wherever -- plants will be occupied, sites will be occupied. We're going to monitor shipments, we're going to
            $0 knew where every piece of nuclear shipment is        throughout the 1U country.

1 ~0 We mean to knew as civilians, as people, and I2 what's going on and we're going to do it, and there's a lot 14 of pecple committed to it. I3] There are nuns doing it. Two nuns at Seabreck, 16 just two months ago, climbed the reactor cranes that were l 17 going to put in the cora reactor and chained themselves to it  ! I3li to stop it. It cost the State of New Hampshire $50,000 a day l 1 i 1* to keep 1414 people in jail that refused to leave. , l 20 And it's not going to stop. It's just going to l UI proliferate-right with nuclear pcwer. And that's going to be i n-

             [ a cost that I think everyone shculd take into censideration, l

o.  : j

             " p because pecple are villing to sacrifice,               people with no         -

1

            -,      i
                ' ' . criminal records, teachers, nuns, doctors,           lauyers, chemist::,
                    !!                                                                                 i e"- 9 y they're willing to sacrifice - they are really willing to                        i d

s

                      =4
                     %                                                                          l

1, 279 1 1, 1 1 agb 5 1' sacrifica 12,. for no one slas, the future generations, time i l

                    ~

L in jail, fines for class c misdensancr, traspaccing. l-e . E' I,I  ; And it's going to continue and it's going to t. r 8

 /                ~

get large. I hopo it nevar resorts tc violence, I really do,  ! i 0 ' because nobcdy, at least'in this group that I know, is ever a,

                   '                                                                                             I
                                          - going to resort to violence. Eut I think it's another 7'                       consideration to kaep in' mind,

a. .

l

                   ;?                                     Like the Woman before un said., the people that      .;

1 C a1 ars fighting this fael it's mi issua greater then Vietnam. ,

                               .                                                                                 l
               .:, t.

j. And'I think we're going to ace, in thc.nsnt couple of years, i IE 9 why it's an issue'greator than Vietnam and hcw the nassas l

                                    !                                                                            i l
                               .           are going to come out againct it.
              ,,               l'      .

i

               'Y l             '

They may ~ not ba hero now, but thece stands aren't! e

               .? ?

y full of people for nuclear pouer, they're pecple against j

                'a             '.O; nuclear pcuer that have given up their time and they're -;oing
             .,",!!,                       t,o keep doing it becausa they knew liife is mora important'            ;

h . 4

                'd 4, than money.                                                                     ,
                !N. I.'                      -

(Acplauce.) I . 3 v

                "                                         CHAIRMAN LUTON:       Anveno else?-                      .

i a, . 9' ]., Is there anycno else who desircs to speah? > 3 ,.

                        } is      i'
              *a d * *                                      (IIe responsc.)

i "q C'IA!P!aN LUTCH: Limitad appearances ar 50: E i use by the public. The procedurc h:s been used, at ths d,- :sa=s timo, wo are not averse te giving r.he parties and

                                   ^.

De j f-f *. petitioners all an ecportunity alac tc scock, scmething in 4

                                                                                                                       ].
                           \ 'i
                             \1 S

• e4 e

m q l 280 1

   - agb6             the nature of a summation.                If any of the nenbers care to                  l l

e~ make. remarks, they m.y do so at thin time. j 3 coes anyone?

  ,/'       4 fir. S'.:'EPTOE :        Mr. Chairman, petitioner has S'

nothing to say at this tims,

.           6 CHAIRMA:I LUTON:              The State of Illinois?

7 MR. EGGERT: I think've'll make our case at 8 ) the time of the evidentiary hearing. l l 9 MR. GODDARD Tnank you for the opportunity, i 10' howetur, the Staff has no desire to m&.e a statement at this 11 - time.

                                                                                                        ^

CHAIRMNT LUTON: All right. 13

                 -                     As I stated at the cutset of the limitad appear-14 ances, Atomic Safety and Licensing Board is often misunderstcod 1 '5
          .           unfertunately.

16 We are not, obviously,the Nuclear Regulatory , 17 Commission. We have been appointed by the Co= mission to 18

              .. a    hear the evidence on and make an initial decision on a 19 particular license application.

O We are unable to act with respect to nuclear 21 Our role is going to be, has to be, concerns in general. an evidentiary one. That is, receiving, censidering all 23 appropriate evidence having to do with the proposed modifica- l tion of the spent fuel pool at Zion, t 25. 11

a lt 1 281 . 6h t i m abl *' !r 4

    ,                       ?                      .b d in doing that, I acy again that our                   ;

b $ w ,

                            ., limitaticas a.~. :       first, the law that the Ccngrecs ?? che                  ,

3 p Unitad Statoc has pasced; secondly, thcae cemplic:.53d, citon- .

 /                     4I   -

i times complicated rules and regulation: of the Nuclear Regula -

                                                                                                                 \

1

il..

                       ~
                        - r)ij tory Cocmission which it has promulgated pursuant to the lav 1

C t. i j}whichCongresepassed. Ne are not free to base our decision ,, l P i on anything other than appropriato evidence in the case.  ; o ,

                               ; That is what we are coing to hava to do in any decision we                   '  l 0       I make. It is necessarily going to have applicability only to              '

9.: , s .  : l the Zion spent fuel pool mcdification anendecht. l

                     .t i 'l                                                                                  '

t a f.

                               ;                 Yacterday several persons acked what happens "y

pafteryoumakethedecision,whatgoesonaftarth:t? As I

                    .o      9 i
                               ' said a moment ago, we mahe an initial decision in this casa.

l l u 1 '

                               ' That's the firct one.                                   '                   !

t m  ;-

                               !                 He have an Atenic Safety and Licensing Appeal 10         $
                            .4 Zoard which is the nent lavs1 um which will review any deci-
                              -t.

a f < l sion that we make, irrespcetive of whether cny cf the pert:.cs  ! 1B p'I  : , to inis case appeal that decision. Of course, if e.ey do .

                              .1

w. i

                   ~, e y acpeal, the Appea.1 Scard will review these things which ars                   ;

cw q e, h,, raised on the appeal in cddition to everything clse in the ,

                       .       4 ecasa.

3

                   ~ a If nona cf tha partica 2ppe' ^= deciaien. ch?

e . Appeal Board will nov2 thelacs ravicw eye j:hing in the caze. s.s */ .

                               ;                 Thereafter, at the nent icvel, the Ucclear v.ag'.'.la-
                    ,.:r'    '.

ue::y C:=icaict itself has tha cpportunity, which it senati.tes a '

o

l l 282 l l eb2 1 exercises, to take a look at the last decision made in the

  ~

2 agency, that is,~either by'a Licensing Board or by the Appeal ;

                                                                                                           ]

3 Board. The Commission can, simply by permitting passage of  ! r d' .a certain amount of time, let a decision become the final I , 5 decision in the agency, a decision that had been made by one ' G of its subordinate Boards, but it dcas not always do that.

                          'T     As I said, it can change the decision in the way.that it sees.           '

B fit, based on the evidence, houever, that has been adduced 9 'in the case. 10 Thoreafter, it is possibla for the parties to

                                                                                                     }

1: ., resort to the federal court system with the same case. The 12 Court of Appeals and thereafter, the Supreme Cocru of the' i 13 United States may be a possibility. j l 14 That's cur role in this proceeding. Hopefully, l i i 15 my remarks have been helpful to a better appreciation of , 16 the constraints that we operate under, the pewers and respon 17 sibilities that we in fact have. j 18 Is there any other mattar to be raised by anyo..e before we leave? 19 20 R. BELGIN: I'd lika you to give a statement on 21 the record of what you think is appropriate in this case. 22 What knowledge do you accept as apprcpriate? Do ycu not 3se t 23 the connecticn betwsen extending the nuclear spent fuel rcd , I 24 storagecapacityandcontinuinganunsafeenergyformbecauae{ l g there is no permanent fuel storage capacity?

E l l. 283 eb3 1 1 CHAIRMAN LUTCM: If'you're asking'for my personal E[L! views, I decline to stata them. O' MR. BELGIN: No, I'm asking for your official *

   /       4          views.                                                      .

5 CHAIRMAN LUTCU: I'm going to have to decline to O state.that, too. My role is really that of a judge and it's 7 not appropriate for me to get into a colicT.ty with people 0 ' about matters that may come before us. 0 MR. BELGIN: It's your statement. 10 CHAIRMAN LUTON: I simply cannot state that. 11 MR.3 ELGIN: You said you will be considering l 12 the information. The only information you will be consider- - 13 ing is the information appropriate to the spent fuel' red 14 j storage capacity being expanced. I'm asking you the question i 15 officially: 15 Is it appropriate-- Do you not see it being < 17 appropriate to connect the spent fuel rod storage capacity,  !

                )

13 l tcmporary capacity, to connect that and the prolifaration

 *              'l 19          of the technology that we're talking abcut here today as being 20          connected?

21 b CHAIRMAN LUTCN: There is always the danger in b I 22 'ie permitting this kind of thing, but if I understand you il 22 i correctly what you're asking me now is to take a position , 26 , with respect to evidence which may be brought before us  ; l i i 23 l during the hearing. I cannot do that. i l

                    '                                                                     l .I t

i i l,  :

I 294 eb ,.

                       .                       P.S . T.A RG :          Is it accrocriate for "ou to define

_ 1 . I I the term "aperopriate"?

2. ('

3!'l Unfortuna.tely, I can't define - CI?.~PE.:i LUTC:T :

   /                 -           it any better than bhat, in accordance with the law.                                              The Administrative Precedures Act is really cr.:ite complicated, s                .,             anc'. the parties themselves vill no doubt disagree vich much 7              that we do during the courso of this hearing.

O MS. TARG: I didn't und rstand. Is it appro-p priate for you to define your ter: " appropriate"? Ic i CHAI3?A1 LUTCN: In accordance tith the law. 1- MS. TARG: Will y?u pl ase do that? i 1; I CHAIRIIA:i LUTCN: Ko, I can't. It's toc ccmpli-pa cated and I cannot do it in the abstract and I will not try. p, I'm very sorry, and I'm also going to end this discussion. l 73 I thin.% you all for yc.ur participation and you - l

                '. o-             CourtOcy.

M3. TARG: Are ve participantc7 You know, you  ; 17 ' i i gj heep talking abcut participants. I thought t'.at I was a t l

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participant when I came. I'm leaving with the impression . 39 I go that in effect I am not a participant. l 1 c. I i CHAI31AN LUTC:i: I'r corry 20t f ? e l 3.'.21 ay . l i m *= g 93 .a _4 +.3.. e.3 ,,7 3. ..T -_'t

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                ~!                 legal term, "Participante"?                    In other wc dc is Cc' c.cn'raald.                            ;

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                            'l e           h     Edison a carticipant and--

Or arc we not pcrticipantc?

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nu .i{ I'm not trying to be funny; I'm really sincerc. and I renid

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                  ,8 i.
 /           .'. !            indicatsd in my cecnine ramarks ths.t there were two nethods                                                                                l,     .,

0 3 . by which interected parties may pcrticipate, he participants I,  ; i .

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I a v i in the Ccr. mission proceedings. One is bv. vay cf beccning  ! l l l 7f a party intervening, ac the State of Illinoi.s is atte=pting f 1 i 4 3-1 to do, and has in fact done. I-  ! g i And the other is by way of linited appearances. 1

         .. -) d              These are the two ways.                                                                                                                       .

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1 1 b,) All the limitzd at.tenrance statensnts that have S

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         .t.o. Hq             been given have been given bv corsons e.articicatine. in tha   -n    -                                  .                                     I t.

I preceeding. l.  !

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il Then we are c.articirants? J

          ... e, .a.                                    MS. TARG:                                                               .

it } b l CHAIF. MAN LUTC3: Suralv. j

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gi , MR. BELGIU: Are we appropriate? , i 1 g ., ! CHAI"lW1 LUTON: We are going to roccss new,  ! uis I and we will, depending upon the Staff'c progress with the j

           .gf,               Safety Evaluation and with whatever other dcct=2nts it ncsda                                                                                  l.

t gg I to prepare, we expect that we will ge to hearing in the , L case in the spring perhaps of nart ye r.

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              ,                additienal cpportunitiac for per:cn2 to continue                                                                     to make
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l 286  ! eb6 1 14-4 tcd appearances at any future prehearing conferences we i 2 hold, and certainly at the evidentiary hearing itself. And 1 3 those hearings will be held in thc vicinity of the :: ion I 4 site. I'm not going to say thnt it will be here, although  ! 3 it may well bo, but it will be near the plant. We're re-6 quired by the regulationo to hold the hearing near the 7 facility, and we expect we'll held all the hearings in the 3 vicinity of the site. 9 MR. BELGIN: Is there a list that I could put my , i 10 name on te receive info:.zation as to 7 hon KRC henring are

         '1         to be held?                                                            -
         * ." .                  CHAIPl@.N LUTON:  I'm non micre of one.

i 13 }i i MR. BELGIM: I would like to be able to know whenI i 14 hearingo are being held. 15 MS. TARG: It couldn't be that expensiva. 15 CHAIRMAN LUTCNs Why don't ycu give me your 17 address, and I will try to get that done. 13 MR. CUNNINGEAM: Mr. Chairman, -- l , 19 CHAIRMAN LUTON: Will scmebody help =c cut, 20 because I'm not aware of a list. m 21 MR. CUliUIMGHAM: Mr. Chairman, I beliava that ne 22 office of Public Affairs of the Mnclear Regula:Ory C:rmissi ,n - publiches a veekly newsletter. It's a three- to fcur-page 23 , 24 summary of all the Cor.missi n's public issuance and i: Wou.1 25 include notices of hearings and also tell about the , i I

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I u 1 1 l , 1 I 287 j i  ! I , availability of Environmental Lnpact Statements, HRS letters, eb7 t. to Ella and co forth.

                        't 3                                                     It is my understanding this publication is mada 1

I 4 available on a setscription basis free to anyone who requests!. l 5 it. Raquests should he addressed to the Diractor of the - I 6I Office .cf Public Affairs, the Nuclear Regulatory Con'. mission, 7 Mashington, D. C. 20555. 8 C:IAIE;4AN LUTON: Thank you, Mr. Cunningham. . n I 9 We stand adjourned. 10 (Whereupon, at 12:00 ncon, the prehearing pr- 11 conference _in the above-entitled matter was 12 adjourned. 13 . f t. If 15 17l

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