ML16119A509
| ML16119A509 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Pilgrim |
| Issue date: | 04/20/2016 |
| From: | Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation |
| To: | |
| Guzman R | |
| References | |
| 2.206, LTR-0319, LTR-15-0375-1, NRC-2307, TAC MF6462 | |
| Download: ML16119A509 (36) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
10 CFR 2.206 Petition Review Board Docket Number: (n/a)
Location: teleconference Date: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 Work Order No.: NRC-2307 Pages 1-35 Edited by: Richard V. Guzman, Petition Manager NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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10 CFR 2.206 PETITION REVIEW BOARD (PRB)
CONFERENCE CALL RE PILGRIM NUCLEAR POWER PLANT
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Wednesday April 20, 2016
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The conference call was held at 1:06 p.m. Eastern Time, SCOTT MORRIS, Chairperson of the Petition Review Board, presiding.
PETITIONER:
MARY LAMPERT, Director, Pilgrim Watch REBECCA CHIN, Co-Chair, Duxbury Massachusetts Advisory Committee BILL MAURER, volunteer, Cape Downwinders NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 NRC STAFF:
SCOTT MORRIS, Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation, PRB Chair JOE ANDERSON, Branch Chief Office of Nuclear Security and Incident Response, Division of Preparedness and
Response
RICHARD GUZMAN, Project Manager Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation SINGH MATHARU, Senior Electrical Engineer Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation NANCY MCNAMARA, State Liaison Officer Region I EMILY MONTEIH, Senior Attorney Office of General Counsel SERITA SANDERS, Petition Coordinator, Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation DOUG TIFFT, State Liaison Officer Region I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 1:06 P.M.
3 MR. GUZMAN: My name is Richard Guzman.
4 I'm a project manager in the Office of Nuclear Reactor 5 Regulation. I'd like to thank everyone for attending 6 this meeting.
7 The purpose of today's teleconference is 8 to allow the Petitioners representing Pilgrim Watch, 9 Cape Downwinders, and the Town of Duxbury Nuclear 10 Advisory Committee, and we'll hereafter call them the 11 Petitioners, to address the Petition Review Board in 12 light of the PRB's initial recommendation regarding 13 the 2.206 petition, dated June 11, 2015 regarding 14 radiological emergency response and switchyard 15 vulnerability at Pilgrim Nuclear Power Station.
16 I'm the Petition Manager for the petition 17 and the PRB chairman is Scott Morris. The meeting 18 is scheduled, as indicated, from 1 o'clock to 2 19 o'clock p.m. Eastern Time, and the meeting is being 20 recorded by the NRC Operations Center and is being 21 transcribed by a court reporter. The transcript will 22 become a supplement to the petition and will also be 23 made publicly available in ADAMS.
24 I'll go ahead and start the 25 teleconference with introductions and as we go around NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 the room and the bridge line, I ask that you clearly 2 state your name, your position and your office or 3 organization for the record.
4 Again, this is Rich Guzman, Project 5 Manager in the Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation 6 or NRR, and here on our end, 7 MR. ANDERSON: Joe Anderson, Office of 8 Nuclear Security and Incident Response.
9 MS. SANDERS: Serita Sanders, the backup 10 to Merrilee Banic for the Petition Coordinator, 11 Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation.
12 MR. GUZMAN: Go ahead, Scott.
13 MR. MORRIS: Scott Morris. I'm the 14 Petition Review Board Chairman. I'm also from the 15 Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation.
16 MR. GUZMAN: Okay, are there any other 17 NRC headquarters participants who have dialed in on 18 the phone, if you could introduce yourselves?
19 MS. MONTEITH: This is Emily Monteith, 20 Office of General Counsel.
21 MS. MATHARU: This is Singh Matharu. I 22 work in the Electrical Branch, NRR.
23 MR. GUZMAN: Okay. Hearing no one else, 24 how about the NRC participants from the Regional 25 Office, if anyone is on line from the Regional Office, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5 1 if you could introduce yourselves?
2 MS. McNAMARA: Nancy McNamara, State 3 Liaison Officer, Region I.
4 MR. GUZMAN: Okay.
5 MR. TIFFT: This is Doug Tifft, Liaison 6 Officer, Region I.
7 MR. GUZMAN: All right. I'm sorry, can 8 you repeat that?
9 MR. TIFFT: Yes. This is Doug Tifft, 10 State Liaison Officer, NRC Region I.
11 MR. GUZMAN: Thanks, Doug. And if 12 there's any representatives on the line for Entergy, 13 the licensee for Pilgrim, if so, please introduce 14 yourselves?
15 (No response.)
16 And for the record, would the Petitioners 17 now please introduce yourselves?
18 MS. LAMPERT: Mary Lampert, Pilgrim 19 Watch, Director.
20 MS. CHIN: Becky Chin or Rebecca Chin, 21 Co-Chair of the Duxbury Nuclear Advisory Committee.
22 MR. MAURER: Bill Maurer, volunteer at 23 Cape Downwinders, Falmouth, Massachusetts.
24 MR. GUZMAN: Okay, thank you. It is not 25 required for members of the public to introduce NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 themselves for this call. However, if there are any 2 members of the public on the phone that wish to do so 3 at this time, please state your name for the record.
4 (No response.)
5 Okay, hearing none, we'll move on. For 6 our court reporter, can you please state your name?
7 COURT REPORTER: Colleen Herbert. Neal 8 R. Gross & Company.
9 MR. GUZMAN: Okay, and I'd like to 10 emphasize that we each need to speak loudly and 11 clearly to ensure that the court reporter can 12 accurately transcribe this meeting. And also, if you 13 do have something that you would like to say, please 14 first state your name for the record.
15 For those dialing in to the 16 teleconference, please remember to mute your phones 17 to minimize any background noise or distractions. If 18 you don't have a mute button, this can be done by 19 pressing the key *6 and then to unmute, press the key 20 *6 again. Thanks.
21 At this time, I'll turn it over to Scott 22 Morris, the PRB Chairman.
23 MR. MORRIS: Thanks, Rich. Again, it's 24 Scott Morris. You already mentioned the purpose of 25 the call. I'm going to just kind of go through some NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 boilerplates as far as the purpose of this 2 conversation today and I'll try to get through that 3 fairly quickly so we can allow the Petitioners the 4 most amount of time possible here.
5 Just a little bit of background, so I 6 think most of you probably know this, but for the 7 record, Section 2206 of Title of the Code of Federal 8 Regulations describes this process that we're 9 embarked upon here, the petition process, which is 10 really the primary way for the public to request 11 enforcement actions to be taken by the NRC in a public 12 process. The process permits anyone to petition the 13 NRC to take an enforcement action related to any of 14 the NRC's licensees or license activities.
15 Depending on how the NRC and particularly 16 the Petition Review Board evaluates the petition, the 17 NRC can ultimately modify, suspend, or revoke an NRC 18 license. It can also take any other appropriate 19 enforcement action necessary to resolve the issue.
20 The NRC has guidance on how it implements the Section 21 2206 process and that's available on a public website 22 in Management Directive 8.11.
23 The purpose, really as I said, the 24 purpose of today's meeting is to give Mary, Bill, and 25 others, the Petitioners, an opportunity to address NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 1 the Board with any additional explanation in support 2 for the petition that they have filed in light of our 3 initial recommendation to reject the petition. And 4 I believe Rich had a call or some sort of 5 communication with you, the Petitioners, back in late 6 March, March 31, 2016 to kind of outline in a big 7 picture way what our basis for our initial 8 recommendation was.
9 But in terms of today, this meeting is 10 not a hearing. It's not an opportunity to question 11 the board members, examine the board members or 12 recommendations on the merits or issues presented in 13 the petition request that's already been filed.
14 We're not going to make any decisions today. We're 15 going to listen and get clarifying information, ask 16 questions as needed.
17 Following the call today, we as the 18 Petition Review Board, will conduct further internal 19 deliberations and the outcome of those deliberations 20 will be discussed with Petitioners.
21 The PRB, as the chairman, which in this 22 case is myself, and the chairman is usually a Senior 23 Executive Service level individual here at the NRC.
24 I meet the qualification. I happen to be in NRR. My 25 current position is Director of the Division of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 1 Inspection and Regional Support.
2 The PRB also has a Petition Manager which 3 is Rich and a PRB Coordinator which is Merrilee. Are 4 there other board members, including Emily Monteith, 5 which you heard, and I think you also heard Joe 6 Anderson from the Office of Nuclear Security and 7 Incident Response?
8 (No response.)
9 And there's also an individual from our 10 Electrical Branch in NRR as well, since some of the 11 aspects of the petition involve electrical issues at 12 the Pilgrim facility. So as described in the process 13 that I outlined and that I mentioned with the 14 Management Directive 8.11, we can ask clarifying 15 questions and likely will in order to better 16 understand the Petitioners' presentation today. And 17 afterwards we will consider if we need to modify any 18 of our initial recommendations based on what we got 19 today. And then our final recommendations will be 20 included in a letter, a formal letter.
21 Before I hand it off, I'm going to 22 briefly summarize the scope of the petition that was 23 filed and the information that we considered to date.
24 So back in June of last year, 2015, the Petitioners 25 submitted the petition under Section 2206 of Title NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 1 10, Part 50 regarding concerns about the adequacy of 2 the emergency response plan and the protective 3 measures at Pilgrim Nuclear Power Station. And on 4 July 13th about a month later, the Petitioners 5 supplemented their initial filing to include 6 information concerning Pilgrim switchyard 7 vulnerability and loss of power, and specifically at 8 the station during severe weather events.
9 In addition, the Petitioners requested 10 the NRC to institute this proceeding, a proceeding, 11 I should say, to modify, suspend, or take other action 12 as may be proper to the operating license at Pilgrim 13 such that the NRC can provide reasonable assurance 14 that adequate protective measures can and will be 15 taken in the event of a radiological emergency at the 16 Pilgrim facility.
17 The Petitioners also requested that the 18 NRC evaluate the adequacy of Pilgrim's radiological 19 emergency plan and associated procedures due to 20 alleged deficiencies in the reasonable assurance 21 assessments made by the Federal Emergency Management 22 Agency, or FEMA, and the Massachusetts Emergency 23 Management Agency, or MEMA.
24 Petitioners were also concerned at that 25 time with Pilgrim switchyard vulnerability to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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11 1 flashovers and requested that the NRC require Pilgrim 2 to shut down their unit as a precautionary measure 3 whenever severe weather conditions are forecast at 4 the site.
5 We also held a teleconference with the 6 Petitioners back on July 9th of last year, again 2015, 7 in which the Petitioners addressed the Board with 8 additional explanation and support for the petition.
9 Several months later, about a month ago, in fact, 10 March 31, 2016, Rich Guzman informed the Petitioners 11 of the Board's initial recommendation to reject the 12 petition on the basis that first the petition 13 requests were not enforcement-related actions and 14 therefore outside of the scope of 2.206 process 15 and/or parts of this petition raised issues that it 16 had already been subject to NRC staff review to which 17 resolution has already been achieved.
18 On April 2nd of this month, the 19 Petitioners requested a teleconference with the Board 20 to comment on that initial recommendation and that is 21 what we're here to do today. So this is a brief 22 reminder for all the participants in this. When you 23 speak, please identify yourself before you make any 24 remarks. That helps the individual who is producing 25 the meeting transcript because this will be made NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 publicly available. The transcript will be made 2 publicly available. And it is a public meeting, so 3 I would like to remind all participants to refrain 4 from discussing any NRC sensitive or proprietary 5 information to the extent you're aware of it during 6 today's meeting.
7 So now I'm going to turn it over to the 8 Petitioners and allow Mary, Bill, and others to 9 provide any additional explanation or support that 10 they believe the Board should consider as part of 11 this petition. And again, for the record, please 12 introduce yourself and do speak loudly and clearly.
13 If you need to -- I don't hear any background noise, 14 so that's good, but just as a help, if you don't have 15 a mute button on your phone, which I suspect most 16 people do, but if you don't you can mute your line by 17 pressing *6 and then unmute it again by pressing *6.
18 So that's why I wanted to provide an intro, let me 19 just hand it off to Mary.
20 MS. LAMPERT: Oh, great. Mary Lampert, 21 L-A-M-P as in Peter E-R-T, Pilgrim Watch Director.
22 We appreciate this opportunity to express why we find 23 the initial decision untenable based on the evidence 24 presented to you that FEMA and MEMA misrepresented 25 the adequacy of Pilgrim's emergency response plan NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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13 1 during the Juno storm and misrepresented that local 2 EMDs were consulted. Their false statements brings 3 into question whether this was an isolated instance 4 or is part of a pattern. And until this is resolved 5 by NRC, there is no reasonable assurance that NRC has 6 fulfilled its responsibilities for emergency plans.
7 The Petitioners' requests 1, 2, and 4, we 8 believe, are within scope contrary to the PRB's 9 initial decision. And to find out what NRC's 10 responsibilities are, we went to NRC's website and 11 also read the MOU between NRC and FEMA which is 12 hyperlinked on the emergency planning website that 13 NRC has.
14 NRC is responsible first to assess the 15 licensee emergency plans for adequacy. This cannot 16 conceivably mean that you can base assessment of 17 adequacy on false statements. There is an implied 18 requirement to assess the reports for their 19 adequacies, especially when facts are provided to the 20 contrary. Pilgrim Watch and the other Petitioners 21 showed that FEMA's reports on the adequacy of Juno 22 were patently false and to determine adequacy, the 23 NRC needs to review Pilgrim's emergency plans itself 24 to determine if FEMA's Juno misrepresentations are 25 isolated or a pattern.
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14 1 Second, NRC is responsible to verify that 2 licensee emergency plans can be adequately 3 implemented. The petition has showed they cannot be 4 implemented contrary to FEMA and MEMA's statement 5 that evacuation was possible. And so again, it is 6 within the scope to request that NRC do its job and 7 determine adequacy.
8 Third, NRC is responsible to review FEMA 9 findings and determinations as to whether offsite 10 plans are adequate and can be implemented. In this 11 instance, review includes whether the findings 12 represent fact or fiction. We showed fiction.
13 Number four, NRC is responsible to make 14 radiological health and safety decisions with regard 15 to the overall state of emergency preparedness such 16 as assurance that continued operation, issuance of 17 operating licenses which isn't pertinent here, taking 18 enforcement actions, etcetera. And so therefore, it 19 is incumbent the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to 20 look at these three requests, act on them, so NRC can 21 do its job.
22 We know the buck stops with NRC. In the 23 MOU between NRC and FEMA, it says "nothing in this 24 MOU shall be construed in any way to diminish NRC's 25 responsibility for protecting the radiological health NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 and safety of the public." In other words, it is 2 within NRC's scope to review the adequacy of 3 Pilgrim's emergency plan especially in light of the 4 fact that FEMA and MEMA reports were inaccurate.
5 The Petitioners' third request which 6 involved a request, an order for shutdown during 7 severe weather, the PRB said that this is 8 sufficiently resolved. We disagree because the 9 question is whether the precautionary shutdown is a 10 requirement of NRC and if so, how is severe weather 11 conditions defined? In other words, what is the 12 trigger for shutdown? And would that be adequate to 13 protect public health and safety which is NRC's 14 responsibility or is this another voluntary industry 15 initiative which cannot be enforced and therefore we 16 argue would not be protective of public health.
17 So in short, we believe that the initial 18 decision is basically untenable on the basis of the 19 facts known to the PRB through our 2.206 petition and 20 we conclude that NRC is the responsible party to 21 assess, verify, review offsite emergency plans to 22 make radiological and health and safety decisions 23 with regard to the overall state of emergency 24 preparedness such as assurance for continued 25 operation, issuance -- or taking enforcement actions NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 1 such as notices of violations, civil penalties, 2 orders, shutdown of operating reactors, setting the 3 120-day clock or whatever. To take those actions, 4 it is necessary for the NRC to do its homework, take 5 its responsibility to assure that the reports and 6 what they have been relying on have been accurate.
7 So in essence, that's what I have to say.
8 Bill, Becky, do you have comments?
9 MR. MAURER: Bill Maurer, M-A-U-R-E-R, 10 Cape Downwinders. I live in Falmouth, Massachusetts.
11 You know, after the blizzard of January 12 2015 with the switchyard failure, I went back through 13 the records and Pilgrim switchyard had failed -- I 14 can go back to 1978, the blizzard of '78. Pilgrim 15 switchyard failed eight times. We're currently under 16 severe winter weather conditions. That's a pattern.
17 This is like a no brainer kind of stuff, 18 you know? In a blizzard, evacuations are off the 19 table as an emergency response. In fact, in this 20 last blizzard in January 2015, Governor Baker banned 21 any travel for a certain period of time. So it's 22 just remarkable to me that the NRC, MEMA, Entergy, 23 and BECO before that couldn't connect those dots, 24 that during a blizzard, we can't evacuate Pilgrim.
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17 1 switchyard flashovers and scraps. It took public 2 pressure to get the NRC and MEMA to make that 3 correlation.
4 In my mind, this is not heads up law and 5 this is not rocket science. So either people ignored 6 it or people weren't smart enough to connect the dots.
7 Either way, it -- I don't like the sound of it.
8 So now, the switchyard is still 9 inadequate. Actually, in a supplemental inspection 10 report that was issued on January 26, 2015, it was a 11 supplemental inspection report that was an inspection 12 that was done December 2014, the NRC discovered that 13 Entergy had actually put failed insulators in 14 storage, insulators that failed in a storm in 15 February 2013, never sent them out for testing to 16 determine root cause. This is just unacceptable.
17 So when the NRC now says well, now we're 18 shutting the plant down, we'll ask Entergy to shut 19 the plant down during severe weather, you know, 20 credibility is gone as far as I'm concerned. It's 21 just -- I don't know what to say, tell you how 22 disappointed I am that this is the way things are 23 playing out.
24 I mean this is probably not just specific 25 to Pilgrim, you know, all the power plants that are NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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18 1 in places that get blizzards are faced with the same 2 fact that during a blizzard evacuations are 3 impossible. The cookbook, one size fits all, 4 emergency planning, the accounts that they make for 5 severe winter weather are certainly inadequate, based 6 on empirical evidence at Pilgrim and I'm sure at other 7 plants around the country. I think those needed 8 upgrading. Thank you.
9 MS. LAMPERT: Bill, if I could just make 10 one clarification, Mary Lampert, Pilgrim Watch.
11 MR. MAURER: Sure.
12 MS. LAMPERT: The clarification would be 13 not simply blizzards, but severe weather making 14 evacuation untenable because you have situations of 15 hurricanes. You have situations of severe flooding.
16 There are all sorts of natural events. And due to 17 climate change severe weather patterns, whether they 18 be blizzards, hurricanes, or what have you are 19 becoming more frequent.
20 Therefore, and this is a second point and 21 a request for clarification, did NRC require that 22 there be shutdown as a precaution prior to a severe 23 event, natural event, that would impede evacuation or 24 is this an NRC suggestion, a voluntary industry 25 initiative? If it's the latter, then it's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 1 unacceptable, we believe and that was the thrust of 2 our third request.
3 Go ahead, Bill. I'm sorry for 4 interrupting.
5 MR. MAURER: That's okay. You're 6 exactly right. It's any sort of severe weather that 7 takes evacuation off the table as an option. I don't 8 know what else to say. I'm just in awe that we found 9 ourselves in this position after the storm, the 10 blizzard of 2015, the public pressure to -- did 11 anybody connect the dots? That's it. Thank you.
12 MS. CHIN: This is Rebecca Chin, C-H-I-13 N. I co-chair the Nuclear Advisory Committee for 14 Duxbury, Massachusetts. Actually, I'd like to say I 15 completely agree with Ms. Lampert's comment in the 16 beginning and Bill Maurer's comments just recently.
17 I have lived in town for the entire 18 history of Pilgrim Nuclear Power Plant and I can't 19 tell you how disappointed I am in the oversight of 20 the NRC and taking responsibility. It does land on 21 your toes. It is at your doorstop that you cannot 22 pass over to another federal agency and say not my 23 problem, somebody else's. And it's not okay.
24 This is a nuclear power plant. We depend 25 on you to do your job and to look at the reports that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 1 come through that are probably insufficient at this 2 point as to this petition as far as what NEMA and 3 FEMA 4 stated in their ability to protect the emergency 5 plans for the Town of Duxbury or the EOC around the 6 entire plant. It is not okay to disregard the 7 reality of the fact that we were not able to evacuate.
8 Our emergency manager director did not 9 get called to ask for his opinion if the plants could 10 be implemented and that the town was left to their 11 own devices should something have gone wrong at that 12 point and that the call to require a shutdown with 13 the advanced notice of severe weather should not be 14 an option. The plant is never going to make that 15 call easily without a great deal of either public 16 pressure or you telling them they must shut down as 17 a precaution to protect the residents in probably a 18 50-mile radius of that plant because there's no way 19 in a major storm that anybody inside that radius is 20 going to be able to move. That's my comment.
21 MS. LAMPERT: Again, Mary Lampert.
22 Excuse me, does somebody else want to say something?
23 MR. MAURER: Yes, this is Bill Maurer.
24 You know, I just want to sort of punch away a little 25 bit and say that sometimes during blizzards it's not NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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21 1 just a day, it can be three days before people are 2 able to get out and even shovel their driveways. So 3 that's it. Thank you.
4 MS. LAMPERT: Let me clarify my concern 5 with the NRC abdicating responsibility by saying you 6 rely blindly on FEMA for determination of adequacy.
7 One of my sons teaches at a university. For large 8 lecture classes, he has TAs do the grading. Now if 9 a student points out that a TA flunked him, but look 10 here at the exam, it's plus perfect, whose 11 responsibility is it? Is it the TA's responsibility?
12 No, the buck stops with my son because he is the 13 professor at that university. He is the one who is 14 responsible.
15 So to say in a similar vein that these 16 questions are out of scope, 1, 2, and 4, makes no 17 sense. No, they're totally within scope because you, 18 the NRC, cannot with a straight face make a 19 determination that emergency plans at Pilgrim Station 20 are adequate to protect public health and safety.
21 You can't say that now because your statement of that 22 rests upon a determination by FEMA and MEMA that have 23 been shown to you to have lied.
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22 1 coming up here as Commissioner Carr did at one point, 2 send a team up to look at the plant, to make an 3 evaluation yourselves, because you are the 4 responsible party. And because Entergy has 5 determined to continue to operate until May 31st, 6 2019, the emergency plans remain very important at 7 least through that date.
8 MR. MORRIS: Okay. Any other thoughts, 9 comments, clarifying information from any of the 10 Petitioners before I open it up for questions from 11 some of the board members?
12 (No response.)
13 Doesn't sound like it. This is Scott 14 Morris again, Petition Review Board chairman.
15 Anybody on the call from the Nuclear 16 Regulatory Commission staff, specifically the 17 Petition Review Board members themselves, have any 18 questions or clarifying requests from the 19 Petitioners?
20 (No response.)
21 Are you guys there? Rich?
22 MR. GUZMAN: We have no comments over 23 here.
24 MS. LAMPERT: We put them to sleep, I 25 think.
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23 1 MR. MORRIS: No, I've been taking notes.
2 This is Scott Morris again.
3 Okay, I don't -- as I indicated, we're 4 not really here to negotiate what NRC should be doing.
5 We're here to collect information to make sure that 6 we're making the most informed, appropriate decision 7 that we can make given the circumstances, given the 8 facts, given the information presented.
9 I think I have that and I do appreciate 10 the additional offerings here today and I really --
11 I do believe I fully grasp what the challenges are 12 that you're raising here with respect to the station, 13 with respect to the NRC and its roles and 14 responsibilities and with respect to FEMA and MEMA.
15 I believe I have a full and firm understanding of all 16 of the issues.
17 I personally don't have any additional 18 questions or clarifying information and again, I 19 would just offer it up to the board to give another 20 chance, if there's something that they didn't quite 21 grasp or fully appreciate from what you said today.
22 I would just make one comment about roles 23 and responsibilities. And it's true, NRC is the 24 regulator of nuclear safety and security and our goal 25 obviously and our mission is to ensure public health NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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24 1 and safety for the civilian uses of nuclear and 2 radiological materials. And we are very serious 3 about that in spite of what you may think.
4 I will say that there are very well-5 defined roles and responsibilities of every entity 6 that we engage with in executing our mission. I 7 think in the -- well, I know in the initial response 8 or initial recommendation that the Board had that was 9 communicated to you last month, I'm not sure how well 10 you understand the basis behind those initial 11 recommendations and I don't want to invite the 12 Petitioners to ask the board members specific 13 questions, but I will just offer that some of the --
14 particularly with respect to items 1 and 2 where there 15 are assertions and slash allegations of 16 misrepresenting the facts or not telling the truth, 17 lying, I think I heard, you know, those are very 18 serious charges.
19 Typically, we don't handle those under 20 the petition process and I think that's what Rich 21 communicated. We handle those under alternate means, 22 whether it be through Inspectors General of those 23 various agencies and organizations or some other 24 potential avenues. And those are under consideration 25 as well.
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25 1 The petition review process has one 2 avenue to pursue and you have elected to pursue those 3 particular issues under this process. I think what 4 the Board communicated was in those cases, there are 5 other more appropriate means to address those 6 matters.
7 MS. LAMPERT: May I interrupt? This is 8 Mary Lampert. I think there are different levels to 9 look at misrepresentation. What you're referring to 10 is you could go to the Inspector General at FEMA, and 11 I guess the Attorney General from MEMA, to address a 12 particular misrepresentation. But there is, and what 13 we brought forward, a broader level of that and that 14 is seeing as how we showed that FEMA and MEMA 15 represented facts in this instance that it then is 16 incumbent through this process for the NRC to then 17 take a hard look to determine whether this was an 18 isolated instance or not. And it would trigger NRC 19 to then in a precautionary manner to do your job, to 20 look at the adequacy of Pilgrim's plans because there 21 is a potential that your approval of the plans and 22 determination that Entergy was fulfilling its 23 obligation to follow the rules and guidance of 24 planning may be incorrect because you were relying 25 upon FEMA and perhaps that was a big mistake.
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26 1 MR. MORRIS: I understand. Thanks.
2 This is Scott Morris. I understand your 3 clarification, Mary. And I appreciate that. So 4 thanks for that.
5 Yes, clearly, just for the public record, 6 it's clearly the NRC, the licensee in concert with 7 the state and local officials developed a plan, but 8 ultimately the NRC reviews and approves that plan and 9 once it's approved and part of their operating 10 license, then clearly there's not only an 11 expectation, but a requirement that the plan be 12 implemented. And so I understand that.
13 And I think what I'm hearing you say is 14 well maybe the plan as written and as reviewed and 15 approved by the NRC may, in fact, the plan itself may 16 not be adequate, in part or in whole because there's 17 a reliance upon a third party or a state and local 18 plan and emergency officials who exercise its role in 19 support of that plan.
20 MS. LAMPERT: Correct. Because in the 21 past we have found 2.206 petitions about emergency 22 planning, about for example --
23 MR. MORRIS: Right, I understand.
24 MS. LAMPERT: -- decay. And there could 25 well be a common thread running here.
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27 1 MR. MORRIS: Well, I will say -- I 2 appreciate that, Mary. Again, Scott Morris here. I 3 will say that as the regulator, we are -- we do, in 4 fact, approve and have requirements for emergency 5 planning and a variety of other things. It's our 6 expectation that, in fact, those plans be 7 implemented. That expectation is based on a 8 presumption. The presumption is that the parties 9 that are -- the entities that are party to that plan 10 will do their -- fulfill their function as written.
11 MS. LAMPERT: I guess they're reputable 12 presumptions, rebuttable.
13 MR. MORRIS: Exactly. And it doesn't --
14 the plan itself does not contemplate the -- whether 15 or not somebody will willfully ignore or abdicate, I 16 think is the word you used at one point, elements of 17 the plan. And so when those -- when assertions of 18 that type of impropriety or willful behavior or 19 careless disregard or however you want to 20 characterize it, as I said, we don't -- we're not 21 saying we're ignoring it. We're just saying that our 22 initial recommendation was based on the presumption 23 or the fact that that could be remedied through 24 alternative process. That's all we were saying in 25 the --
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28 1 MS. LAMPERT: Yes, well, the alternative 2 processes would be a spank on FEMA's and MEMA's rear 3 end --
4 MR. MORRIS: I don't want to comment on 5 what may ultimately happen.
6 MS. LAMPERT: Yes, but I'm just saying 7 that's what could happen. Dealing directly with that 8 instance, but again it doesn't solve the broader 9 problem.
10 MR. MORRIS: I understand. I do.
11 MR. MAURER: Can I jump in? This is Bill 12 Maurer.
13 MR. MORRIS: Yes, sir.
14 MR. MAURER: Hi. When we've chosen 15 alternative routes like talking to MEMA, Governor 16 Baker, Senator Markey, what comes back to us is we're 17 preempted by the NRC. So you're telling us to --
18 MR. MORRIS: Yes.
19 MR. MAURER: It's like a dead-end street.
20 MR. MORRIS: I hear you. I guess I'm a 21 little, well, I'll just say I understand what your 22 understanding is or what you've been told.
23 MR. MAURER: In the meetings.
24 MR. MORRIS: Yes.
25 MR. MAURER: In the meetings. But NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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29 1 that's the posture people take.
2 MR. MORRIS: The other thing I just 3 wanted to mention by way of clarification is with 4 respect to the switchyard at the station, and as you 5 said, its pattern of challenges that it's experienced 6 over the lifetime. That's something that we, too, 7 are in full recognition of. There have been a number 8 of inspection and assessment activities that occurred 9 at the facility including as recently as this year 10 where -- and I will say that members of this very 11 board have been in communication with the folks 12 responsible for implementing those inspections.
13 Those inspections have looked at this. They have 14 taken a look at the equipment issue. They've taken 15 a look at the licensee processes with respect to 16 maintaining and operating those systems.
17 So it's their conclusion, based on boots 18 on the ground, so to speak, and looking at the actions 19 that the licensee has taken and proposes to take 20 should there be another incident like Juno. We found 21 that to be sufficient and adequate, consistent with 22 our regulatory structure, requirements, etcetera.
23 MR. MAURER: Why not just fix the 24 switchyard? Why not just spend the money just to fix 25 it instead of the band-aid approach? How about a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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30 1 little belt and suspenders instead of do as little as 2 possible?
3 MR. MORRIS: Yes, I don't want to comment 4 on this call with respect to the actions that the 5 licensee has or intends to take absent what's already 6 in the public record and inspection reports. But I 7 think that the belt and suspenders approach, I think 8 that the regulatory infrastructure requirement plan, 9 oversight, other things that we do, I think provide 10 a reasonable -- without -- I mean this is Scott Morris 11 speaking, provide a belt and suspenders approach.
12 And I'll leave it at that. I understand your 13 concerns and really what I wanted to make sure I fully 14 grasp what it is you are conveying.
15 MR. MAURER: Absolutely. I feel like 16 the Agency and Entergy has been recklessly gambling 17 with public safety in regards to that switchyard and 18 seeing if it can go through blizzard after blizzard 19 after blizzard without repairing it.
20 MR. MORRIS: All right.
21 MS. LAMPERT: The company has been losing 22 money and they're going to close May 31, 2019, so 23 anyone would be a fool to think they're going to spend 24 money on it. And NRC has shown no enthusiasm for 25 requiring them to spend money. And that's the way NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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31 1 it is. So we hope our luck holds out and that said, 2 that was only one part of the petition. And so we 3 look forward to hopefully, you determining that the 4 other three were in scope and that your response will 5 also indicate whether a precautionary shutdown is, in 6 fact, a requirement by providing the ML, so we can 7 see that it is a requirement to their license and a 8 definition of severe weather that would trigger the 9 shutdown, or again, whether it is a suggestion by the 10 NRC and opt to a voluntary behavior by Entergy that 11 wants to squeeze every drop of juice out of the lemon.
12 MR. MORRIS: I understand.
13 MS. LAMPERT: So that's what we'd really 14 like to hear.
15 MR. MORRIS: This is Scott. I 16 understand.
17 MS. LAMPERT: It was great talking to 18 you.
19 MR. MORRIS: I'm sorry?
20 MS. LAMPERT: I just said it was nice 21 talking with you.
22 MR. MORRIS: Oh, okay. You mentioned ML 23 and ML for those who may not be familiar including 24 our individual transcribing, ML stands for Main 25 Library. It's a reference to a specific number in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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32 1 our Electronic Library System.
2 Okay, I don't think that the licensee for 3 Pilgrim is on the line, but I'll ask one more time if 4 perhaps someone, an individual from the licensee 5 joined the conference? If not, or if so, I would ask 6 them if they have any questions. If not, I'll ask 7 if there are any members of the public on this call.
8 (No response.)
9 And it doesn't sound like it.
10 MS. LAMPERT: Becky, is there anything 11 you want to say?
12 MS. CHIN: I made my comments and echo 13 your original comments and Bill's comments and my 14 concerns that the licensee is allowed to have options 15 that probably shouldn't be put in their pocket. They 16 should be on their toes by the NRC to require shutdown 17 when a predicted major storm is coming into the 18 coastline and not leave it to luck.
19 MR. MORRIS: Okay, thank you for that.
20 Well, listen, I do appreciate the time you took out 21 of your day today to provide us that additional 22 information and I can assure you that we are going to 23 take that information. We will go back and review 24 our notes and the transcription from this. We will 25 reconvene as a board, consider the additional NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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33 1 comments that you've made and we will render -- I 2 think, an appropriate decision and that will be a 3 publicly-available document.
4 Before we close, does the court reporter 5 or the individual who is transcribing this call need 6 any information?
7 COURT REPORTER: Yes. Thank you. I do 8 have a few questions, actually, about spelling.
9 Could I have for the record everyone's -- everyone 10 present from the PRB and who is also on the call from 11 the NRC state their name, if they could spell it for 12 me and also their title or affiliation.
13 MR. GUZMAN: Is it Colleen?
14 COURT REPORTER: This is Colleen.
15 MR. GUZMAN: Do I have your name right, 16 Ms. Court Reporter?
17 COURT REPORTER: Yes.
18 MR. GUZMAN: In the past, I've just 19 emailed all the names to the reporter to make it 20 easier and facilitate that process, so I can either 21 get your email address or I can send it to Matina.
22 COURT REPORTER: To who? Excuse me.
23 MR. GUZMAN: I can provide her a list of 24 the names so that way we're not using up this time.
25 COURT REPORTER: Okay, that's fine.
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34 1 MR. MORRIS: Okay?
2 COURT REPORTER: Great.
3 MR. MORRIS: Any other questions, 4 Colleen? COURT REPORTER: No, that will 5 be all.
6 MR. MORRIS: All right, again, well, 7 thank you all. With that, we'll conclude the meeting 8 and we're going to terminate the phone connection.
9 Thanks again.
10 MS. LAMPERT: Thank you.
11 MR. MAURER: Thank you.
12 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 13 went off the record at 1:56 p.m.)
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