ML20235W320

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Partially Withheld Transcript of 841022 Closed Meeting in Washington,Dc Re Status of near-term Ols.Pp 33-55
ML20235W320
Person / Time
Site: Diablo Canyon  Pacific Gas & Electric icon.png
Issue date: 10/22/1984
From:
NRC COMMISSION (OCM)
To:
Shared Package
ML20235W266 List:
References
FOIA-88-229, REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8903100593
Download: ML20235W320 (23)
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'l l UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 . ---

4 STATUS OF NTOLs 5 - --

6 CLOSED MEETING - EXEMPTIONS 5 & 7 7 ---

8 Room 1130 1717 H Street, N.W.

9 Washington, D.C.

10 Monday, October 22, 1984 11 The Commission reconvened, pursuant to recess, at 12 3:48 p.m. .

l 13 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:

14 NUNZIO PALLADINO, Chairman of the Commission THOMAS ROBERTS, Commissioner 15 JAMES ASSELSTINE, Commissioner FREDERICH BERNTHAL, Commissioner ,

16 LANDO ZECH, Commissioner 17 STAFF AND PRESENTERS SEATED AT COMMISSION TABLE:

18 S. CHILK B. HAYES

  • 19 H. DENTON G. MESSENGER 20 S. CONNELLY 21 AUDIENCE SPEAKERS:

Information in this record was deleted 22 E. EISENHUT i9 accor&are with the f 23 B. COTTER kt,

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33 1- ' COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: I' agree with you.

~

2 MR. HAYES: Well,.1ike I'say, we have not 3 expended any resources, it's just' in a holding pattern.

4 COMMISSIONER ZECH: You sent'somebody up there.

5 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: You sent somebody up there, you had'an appointment.

6' 7 MR. HAYES: Yes. I'm saying after the declination C

8 we have not expended any resources on this investigation.

9 There is no. place to send them unless counsel allows their 10 client to meet with us. So, we haven't done anything except 11 gotten~the turndown.

12 l COMMISSIONER ZECH: You' shouldn' t do anything.

l' Thank you.

14 MR. HAYES: The next is Region V, Diablo Canyon.

16 We have 15 investigative matters at Diablo Canyon.

16 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: One or two?

17 MR. HAYES: I'm sorry, I don't draw a distinction 18 between one and two.

19 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Okay.

20 MR. HAYES: Fifteen matters involving approximately 21 130 allegations enveloped within these 15 investigative l'

22 matters.

23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: A hundred-thirty eight.

24 MR. HAYES: N liundred and thirty, approximately, 25 the number of allegations that have been referred to us.

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34

. 1 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: What 's the dif ference 2 b.stween a matter and an allegation. Is one just a subject

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3 and the other specific?

4 MR. HAYES: Yes, they are the same. Investigations ,

A what we try to do is that if we get numerous allegations 6

involving one particular system of falsification in a given 7

area, then we open up one investigation and put all the 8 calegations in that particular hopper, similar to what the 9 staff does in trying to look at the systemic nature of to problems as opposed to specific allegations.

11 MR. DENTON: Let me mention one, Ben, that is a 12 little different- from the ones you have been talking about, 13 involving PG&E, that we asked 3en if he might want to look 14 into.

15 The company and their attorney informed Jack 16 Martin and I that one of their employees has become aware 17 that GAP was perhaps offering rewards for information that 18 could lead to the suspension of Diablo Canyon.

19 l

CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: To what?

20 MR. DENTON: Information leading to a suspension l

21 of the license S , hi divjdual r po g contract 22 signes by a You remember a of TMI. And 23 they offered him I think, $10,000 or $20,000 if they 1

24 revealed hir identity and $60,000 if the information he had 25 led to suspension of the license.

g 35 l, 4

1 Well, it didn't lead to a suspension of the 2 license and apparently hear. quarters did not agree with the 3 field office, apparently. And then he went to the company 4 to try to sell them the information.

5 So, the com pany told us about it and I asked 6 ELD -- Qjfk $X.]{ )

7 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: went to the company?

8 MR. DENTON: No, this ind v 1 --

9 this individual had a contract wi 10 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS; He said he had a contract.

11 MR. DENTON: He said he ha ,c,p n c M, .

12 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Wit -

13 MR. DENTON: And' the contract had been shwon to 14 the company's lawyer. But the contract was not given to

'15 PG&E's lawyer but he showed a copy of the contract when he 16 was trying to sell this information to PG&E.

17 Well, it smelled awkward to me --

18 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Yes. ,,

1 19 MR. DENTON: -- that he was offering large sums 1

20 of money for such information because an important worker 21 could look the other way during an important test or 22 operation that caused a safety problem.

J 23 So, I asked ELD and OI to advise me on that 24 matter and I guess we couldn't find any criminal statutes 25 were violated because someone is offering sums of money for f

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36

. 1 such information, and I did refer that one to Ben just 2 because I though'. it was something that we should follow up 3 on, even though it apparently does not violate any criminal 4 statutes.

& COMMISSIONER ZECH: I hope you'll look into that j i 6 one.

7 .

CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Yes.

8 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: Well, I want to see if I 9 understood what you said. PG&E's lawyer claims to have 10 seen this?

11 MR. DENTON: Yes.

12 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: To have seen the contract.

13 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: Ind does he attest to the 14 fact that --

15 MR. DENTON: He said it was obviously written by 16 an attorney, it was a good contract, it had all the right 17 language in it, except it had blanks for this individual's 18 n ame . So, granted, apparently the same contract could be 19 used for different individuals. So, you fill in the name of 20 the person. But it was not an improper contract.

21 But the company didn' t know what to do with this 22 information. The employee no longer works for PG&E, and that 23 he was one of the construction workers and as the plant was 24 completed, it turns out he has been terminated or laid of f 25 since this got started. But it wasn't related to this activity,

n 4 , .

37 i

p .'

1' just that his work was completed. l t

2 So,.it did strike me as odd that people are 3 buying information and willing to pay such large sums.

p 4 Howeve r, at the same time, you know, if it were valid 5 information we would have acted on it. But it turns out this 6 particular information was made available to us and it did .

!. 1 7 not represent a big safety problem. j i

8 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: On the one hand, it seems l i

9 to me that could be taken in the category of offering a 10 reward for information leading to, which'is very commonly 11 done.

12 But somehow it strikes me that that really subverts 13 the process that we are about here. And again, I would think 14 we'ought to look at that, and there may -- if in fact that 15 practice is established, I don't know what's going on here '

16 in terms of trying to get.the facts. But that 's some thing, it 17 seems to me, the Congress ought to be made aware of.

18 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: Is the PG&E attorney 19 in-house?

20 MR. DENTON: No, the attorney was Mr. Norton who --

21 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: Oh, yes, we know who Mr.

\

22 Norton is.

I 2 (Laugh te r) 24 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: These individuals are placing f 26 themselves in a situation of withholding information that l'l

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38 1

. relates to the public health and safety. Now, I don't know 2 whether there is any leverage from that standpoint.or not.

3 MR. MALSCH: Well, we can certainly subpoena them, 4 I mean, if they have health and safety information. Moreover, s I would have to say that someone who is only willing to speak 6 if he is . paid a certain amount of mon'ey is therefore l 7 damaging his own credibility, you know.

8 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: What do you subpoena him to, 9 a Board hearing? ,

10 MR. MALSCH: To appear before NRC investigators 11 and divulge the safety information -- he has no right to 12 insist to us that he not divulge safety information until we 13 pay him some fee. He has an obligation, . if he is subpoenaed, 14 to come forth and give whatever relevant information is 15 called for.in the document, in the subpoena. And we have 16 the authority, the broad authority, to issue subpoenaes.

17 We don't do it very often, but we have very broad 18 authority to do that. .

19 MR. DENTON: In this case we did find out what 20 the information was -- I have forgotten .all the details --

21 and did look into it, and it was "ot significant safety 22 information.

23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, I think we ought to be 24 alert, though, to a situation'wh'ere we have a good case to  !

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25 bring the individual in under subpoena to give the information

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- 39 1 they have, or she has.

2 MR. DENTON: I think it's the only exception 3 to referring to Ben instances of wrong-doing about the l

company. I can't tell the company did anything wrong in l 4

5 this case, they came to us pretty quickly af ter they had

} 6 their first meeting.

7 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Is that something that the 8 Department of Justice would be interested in?

9 MR. HAYES: Well, in our look at the matter and 10 the reading of Harold's memorandum to me explaining the 11 situation, we can find really very little jurisdiction for 12 the Commission except that the information should be made 13 available to us , which it already was ,

14 I did take the liberty on my last trip to 15 San Francisco two weeks ago to attempt to get in touch with 16 executives of PG&E in hopes that I could sit down with them 17 and get more detail on the matter, but they were not 18 available . .

19 COMMISSIONER ZECH: If it's true, though , if it 20 really is true and we are convinced it.is true, that story 21 ought to be told. That ought to get out to the press, you 22 know, something like that. I think we'd have to check with 23 our lawyers on it to make'sure we are not doing something 24 improper, but that's a story that should be told.

25 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, PG&E is a good place

40 I.

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1 for'them to begin.

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L 2 COMMISSIONER ZECH: It ought to get out.

l 3 Something like that is something, it seems to.me, that the 4 public has the right to..know about it, N '

s CHAIRMAN PALLADLNO: Okay. Well, do you have 6 more on Region V?

7 MR. HAYES: Palo Verde. We have three 8 investigative matters at Palo Verde. One of those is in 9 my office for review and the other two will be done prior to to year end -- falsification matters, intimidation matters, 11 that sort of thing.

12 So, we hope to conclude those by year end.

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13 CHAIRMAN PAILADINO: Now, what about your resource '

l 14 matter? When you and I talked, you had some ideas. I 15 .

MR. HAYES: Yes. I brought to the Chairman's 16 attention a week ago in preparation of this. particular 17 Commission meeting the fact that we had in excess of 130-some 18 investigations. As you may or may not know, these 19 investigations basically come from the staff. They are 20 referred to us from the staff for investigation.

21 We self-initiate very few investigative matters.

22 And right now we have on board less than twenty investigators ,

23 exclusive of my five managers that I have in the field. Some 24 of those managers are carrying investigations themselves in 26 hopes of expediting the investigative process.

52 9

1 on the licensing schedule.

2 CHAIRMAN.PALLADINO: Well, let's see whst other V

3 plonts you have here.

4 MS. CONNELLY: We have Midland, Diablo Canyon,

-5 Comanche Peak.

6 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: Midland is kind of " water 7 under the bridge."

8 ' CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Diablo Canyon, what's your 9 comment on this? I don't read very rapidly.

~, 10 MS. CONNELLY: All right, let me just cover 11 Diablo Canyon and Comanche Peak. ,

12 We have no on-going investigations involving 13 Diablo Canyon, but I would like to note that Commissioner

(

14 Asselstine has asked that the Commission direct OIA to re-15 open our investigation of alleged misleading or material 16 f alse statements by the NRC staff.

17 Commissioner Asselstine stated that his' concern So, we 18 is to assure that the Commission has all the f acts.

19 are waiting to see what the action of the Commissohn will 20 be with respect to --

21 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I don't know if the i

22 action is complete, but I thought it was. I thought a l

23 majority had said to include this as part of your normal 24 audit activities.

25 MS. CONNELLY: That's another issue, Mr. Chairman f

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($/ Sk

. 1 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: That 's Enother issue?g j 2- MS. CONNELLY: That involves t.h e 3 letter to Commissioner Zech. That's the second item we 4 have under Diablo Canyon.

6 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, what's this one, then, 6 that you are talking about? l 1

7 MS. CONNELLY: This was a 2.206 petition, an 8 investigate'on that we conducted as to whether or not there 9 were misleading and material false statements by the NRC

', 10 staff to the Commission during the March 19, 16 or 27 briefinc 11 or in supplemental safety evaluation' reports issued in 12 December '83 and in March '84. -

MR. MESSENGER: That was briefed at the open

({ 13

. 14 hearing. That was the report that was issued when you 15 voted for the full power license. That was the investigation 16 report. j l

17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, I'll have to check 18 my memory and check the status.

19 MR. MESSENGER: But that's the one that l 20 Corrmissioner Asselstine, I think, when he voted made the 21 statement that he had some concerns on that, on the vote ,for 22 full power.

23 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: On the proper conduct of 24 some of our people in Region V?

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25 MR. MESSENGER: Right. I think it was going back l

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- _--___ ________ - _ _ A

3 1 rather than taking the statem nts made by Devina to go back 2 and interview allegers. I th .nk th a t 's -- i 8 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, <ne check where 4 we stand on that. You are not doing anything yet on that. l 1

5 MR. MESSENGER: No, we are awaiting the decision l

  • . l 6 resulting from Commissioner Asselstine's memo to the 7 rest of the Commissioners.

8 "' CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Sam, are you following this 8

one?

'. 10 MR. CHILK: I must be . I'm not familiar with it.

II CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Will'you check, then let us 12 know where we stand.

13 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: Did we not even decide 14 yet to give Region V a chance to respond --

16 That's what I'm trying to CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:

16 find out.

17 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: -- first to those questions' 18 I mean, that was my vote that we would do that before moving It seems to me they in fairness deserve a chance

~

I8 f a rther.

" to tell their side of the story.

MS. CONNELLY: Commissioner Bernthal, I believe those ]

that that is the ipsue, i5A EX. 7 ($) the issues that were raised from the letter to Commissioner Zech. ]

COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: You are right, you are 25 right.

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55 1 MS. CONNI:LLY : That's a separate issue. And we 2 have an audit on-gcing now of allegation management, And 3 what we had proposed to do was to incorporate those allegation 4 into our audit.

5 They were very broad. There wasn't anything 6 specific that we could really conduct our investigation with 7 respect to. So, we are treating it as part of the audit.

8 ' COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: Okay.

9 MR. MESSENGER: I have the other one here, it 's 10 the letter from Commissioner Asselstine to the other 11 Commissioners, dated September 7, 1984, COMJA-84-7 is the 12 control number. It's Item No. 3.

i 13 CdAIRMAN PALLADINO: Okay. Why don't we have ,

14 SECY check ca our responses to th a t ., and we will be back to you 16 All right?

16 MS. CONNELLY: All right, then the last item 17 with respect to Comanche Peak, we have two investigations 18 which involve alleged breach of confidentiality. One 19 involves an allegation that Region IV released an Office of 20 Investigations report containing the names of persons 21 provided in confidence to the investigator by a former 22 intervenor, and the other investigation involves an allegation 23 that the name of the source who was promised confidentiality 24 was released when an NRC employee's NFE notes were made e

M public.

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..., ... ....e,o.46mu ... 644,330-005 (415) 768-0300 EREEDOM OF INFORMATION T REQUEST Director, Office of Administration tf8 'M U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C. 20555

'- d# h~ [=g Re: Freedom of Information Act Reauest To Whom It May Concern:

Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act (5 USC Section 552 et seq.) and implementing regulation 10 CFR 9, subpart A, we requcat that you furnish the documents identified in the attached FOIA request.

In accordance with the provisions of 10 CFR 9.14, we are prepared to pay fees necessarily incurred in responding to this request.

1 If you should have any questions regarding the '

request, please contact the undersigned at the direct dial number listed above. Your prompt attention to this request will be greatly appreciated.

Very truly yours, h.S Patricia A. Schmiege for O'MELVENY & MYERS PAS:dm 1

Enclosure j l

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Q (') f *} A & A A An mir D4A 4( W4Wl J

FOIA REQUEST For all closed sessions and/or meetings of the Commissioners of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission held bet *een January 1, 1980 and December 31, 1985 at which Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant was discussed or mentioned in any respect, please provide a copy of the transcript of such sessions and/or meetings, as well as all memoranda and notation votes which relate in any manner to such sessions and/or meetings. .

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