ML20138L673

Transcript of 840803 Interview.Pp 1-15.Portions Deleted

ML20138L673
Person / Time
Site:	Comanche Peak
Issue date:	08/03/1984
From:	NRC
To:
Shared Package
ML20138L611	List: ML20138L607 ML20138L612 ML20138L619 ML20138L625 ML20138L628 ML20138L634 ML20138L646 ML20138L651 ML20138L662 ML20138L667 ML20138L673 ML20138L678 ML20138L683
References
FOIA-85-59 NUDOCS 8512200014
Download: ML20138L673 (16)

Text

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, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA '

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2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3

TECHNICAL REVIEW TEAM 4

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8 TECHNICAL INTERVIEW 9 ,

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12 Friday, August 3, 1984 s!

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15 The interview was commenced at 1:40 p.m. l 16 - -

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17 PRESENT:

i jg MR. DICK WESSMAN, Technical Review Team Staff Nuclear Regulatory Commission s' 19 Washington, D.C. 20555

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!- 20 MR. DAVE JENG, Technical-Review Team Staff a Nuclear Regulatory Commission 21 Washington, D.C. 20555

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MR. JOHN DEVARS, Technical Review Tean Staff 22 Nuclear Regulatory Commission 23 Washington, D.C. 20555

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2 3 MR. WESSMAN: For the record,'this is an interview 4 of for the purpose of clarifying some concerns 5 that he rai' sed regarding concrete pour and installation at l

6 the Comanche Peak' Nuclear Power Plant. The location of this '

7. .-

interview is in Present S.[.d

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.' at the' intervieware M myself, Dick Wessman from the s yy.?  ::

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5. ..: N.R.C.',' Dave'Jeng from the N.R.CT, and John'Devars'from the, 2

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10 N.R.C. Now,'as we've agreed, the interview is being  :

l 3p ' transcribed., The N.R.C. wants to ask'some rather specific -

- 12; questionsregardingthetechnicalaspectsofsomeo[the --

13 concrete installation at Comanche Peak. Before we start a- '

14 . with a couple of those questions,{ g I would like to 'l 15 clarify, if I may, your current employment and your employ-16 ment while you were at Comanche Peak. If you could, just 37 describe briefly the details of the things that you were 5

18 d ing; the position you held out there at Comanche Peak.

l 0

I g MR. WESSMAN: When did you leave out there at Comanche, 2'

2 h MR. WESSMAN: . That's fine.

i 25 We're just trying to get l . .

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1 an approximate feel.

1. 2 Yes.

4 MR. WESSMAN: Have you done anf work out there since 5

that time? '

6

[ No.

7 MR. WESSMAN. Okay. )

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. . _ . . . if I can, I'm going to -as{. . . . . .

DaveJengandJohnDevarstoask.pesefewquestionswe,have. ~~

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on the shd5t h'ere an'd then, we'll pursue the one commen..t' ,

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• 1 that you had about item E.in our letter on the concrete.

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MR. JENG: Ibased on the earlier discussions you 12 '

had with an N.R.C. investigator, you indicated that there 13 -

f were a six foot by six foot section of concrete walls which 14 was without reinforcement. 'Could you be more specific 15 about that particular location of such opening and what 16 building they were in; and also, as to shat elevation.or l 17 location in the building. Could you try your best to'your .

18 recollection to answer these questions?

( Well,'the area in liere, it's not that big 20 l a section. It's not a six by six.

21 MR. JENG: Okay. What size was it, approximately?

I It's located around the spillway.

23 MR. JENG:- Around the spillway? -

Does it have two lakes over.there?

MR. DEVARS: Yes. It has basically two lakes.

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_ _m j Well, you know the first spillway that was 1

completed over there, okay?

3

( 1 MR. DEVARS: Okay.

4 I'm not no scuba diver, but it was one of 5

those big pipes that went through that's supposed to carry 6 .

water out -- You know what I'm talking about?

7 MR. WESSMAN: Do you believe this was the. main circu-8 ,-

lating water discharge piping that went back..into.~'the lake?- .

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i It was about like this. .

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cating.). -

11 MR. JENG: But you're talking about the spillways were.

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no longer in the safeguards building which was indicated 13 in your earlier statement. Let's talk about -- .

j I didn't say nothing about safeguard. Okay? ,

15 MR. WESSMAN: Okay. We're mixed up. We had thqught

- 16 that the area you were talking about.was'in this safeguards .

17 building. I think what you're talking about relates to the

.' 18 dam or the discharge area where the circulating water goes S 19 back out -into that lake; is that correct?

] Right.

21 l Which one?

MR. JENG:

v MR. DEVARS: He also, I think, made that allegation 23 '

was - had to do with the spillway. That's where you had 24 5-your problems of crumbling concretes?

)'Right.

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5. j 1 - 1 MR. DEVARS: And also, ,the column spand or pillar was )

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2 seventy-five to eighty degrees offsets?

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• j Right.

4 MR. JENG: Now, given that, could you try your 5

best to describe what was the size and what was the particular 6

location of these openings where you saw no reinforcement 7

was placed before they poured.the concrete.: ._ .

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.All right.- Like from.the spillway, the 9  : :- -

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w third or fourth column back7.this' wap'-- one of those big".

10 pipes like I'm talking about *--- they couldn' t fit the ' pipe 11 in there. You know what I'm saying? Before they started" pouring the concrete, so they cut all the rebar out and here 13 -

. come the concrete. .

14 MR. JENG: Okay. So, that's in pertaining to'this 15 six foot /six foot alleged in the statement you made. This i is no longer part of your allegation; is that right?

Well, now six by six -- I never did.say i ' "

18 i that.

4 19 j

MR. JENG: I'see. That's great. Now, this particular i 20 g

deficiency you are identifying now, you said there is a pipe 1 21 coming in and the rebar is supposed to pour around the pipe,

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22 but they did not put that rebar there.

23 Right. They set the pipe in there and no 24 rebar around it.

25 MR. JENG: Okay. Did you personally see - -

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2 l MR. JENG: -- that they poured the concrete --

3 Right. u 4 l MR. JENG: -- without rebars? Or they may have come l 5 -

l back to put the rebars in af ter. they poured the' concrete. I 1

How can you put rebar in there after they 7 -

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poured concrete, man?

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R '" ~. . ~, . . MR . JENGi' I never'was there, so I'm askin( you your

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l opinion. ..You were there. You are the guy who will'know

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more; right? I'm just a'sking you. . .

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around that pipe without no rebar around it. No. support.

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MR. WESSMAN: And we're still talking about at this 14 dam;. is that correct?

15 Right.

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16 MR. DEVARS:

At this s.pillway? ,

M Right. ,

18 MR. DEVARS: Let me just clarify. There's two spill-19 .

ways at the site. Which one?

The very fist one. I guess.

'1 MR. DEVARS: Is that the one on the other side of the 22 body of water. There's one next to the plant and there's 23 one way on.the other side.

24 It's the one on the north end. Is that what 25 they call Squaw Creek now?

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1 MR. DEVARS: Squaw Creek Dam.

1. 2 Okay.

3 MR. DEVARS: That's the one you're talking about?

, Yeah. .

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MR. DEVARS: Okay.

6 .

MR. JENG: Have you seen the pipe'on this particular 7 l spillway? ,( Directing iuestion l to Mr. Devars.) e 8 _

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.MR. DEVARS:] No... _

I was out there; but I don't know

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, 'specifically Where the pipsi'was located at. Inedd to go 10

.back out there'again. == l 11

, MR. WESSMAN: Okay. De we have enough now that you think you could locate the approximate area based on his i' 13 l description? (Directing question to Mr. Devars.)

14 -

MR. DEVARS: Yes. I know where the location is. It's, 15 at the Squaw Creek Dam. l MR. JENG: One more question, *How big was the 17 l pipe when you'tried to describe it? Is that twelve inch?

4 18 Eighteen inch?

19 (Indicating with hands.)

20 MR. JENG: About that size. Okay. Let's call it 2I twenty-four inches.

l And this was straight around or curving?

22 It was stragiht.

23 '

MR. JENG: You saw one of the locations?

24 Right.

25 MR. JENG: These are third'or fourth pier? Number y . . , ,

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three or number four pier? Approximately?

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Well, from the east side, 5.t would be like 3

number three or number four. Something like that.

4 MR. JENG: Okay. I think that's all we need to know.

5 Thank you.

6 Now, I'm not through.

7 MR. JENG: On this one. ~ . -

'8 - #-

MR..WESSMAN: Okay. On that question. Go ahead 9'

to'your next one now. ~'

Let's go off the record for a minute. ..

11 (Off the record.)

MR. JENG: we got into this pipe you just mentioned .

[

13 Are you aware of any co-workers besides yourself who,saw that they poured concrete without rebars? Besides yourself?

15 If you can identify that, that will help us pinpoint and re-

~ ii solve the problem. Anyone that you know that you are aware .

3 17 i of?

Well', I don't know if he would testify or

'4a 19 j not, but there's a " man working around here in this local' neighborhood for a construction company. His name is t

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MR. JENG: How do you spell it?

23 5-- MR. WESSMAN: And he lives right here in ms ,_._,._ ._, s..s s _. ,_,s. _., s, .u ms , , ;. , ,. , g,_ , _,., _ __.,,, ,s 3,,,,,,,,,,3, ,,s ..,3 s.,, .., s.,.

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== 2 MR. WESSMAN: what I suggest to you is this:

, If you know and see him frequently, if you would tell him that we talked with you and if he feels that he 5

would like to talk with us about this, I'm going.to give you a 6

phone number where he can call me and ask that he make'a I 7

call collect to me or a member of the N.R.C. staff and we'll

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work out'.an arrangement.where we can come and talk with him.

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I dont know'how this Vanguard building got 10 put in this. I.never did mention the Vanguard building.

reading from document Mr. Wessman handed him.)

12 '

MR. JENG: one last question. I want to be sure 13 -

_ I understand what you are mentioning. Did you actually see 14 the concrete being installed without rebars in this particu-15 lar area around the pipe?

j Yes.

t i 17 MR. JENG: You saw with'your eyes? P 18 i Yes. I saw them cut the rebar out so that '

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they could put the pipe in there.

1', 20 l MR. JENG: Okay. And they poured the concrete after 1:

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they cut the rebars?

l 22 Right.

93 MR. JENG: Okay. Thank you very much.

i: 24 MR. DEVARS: I have a question. Was this actually a

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25 pa'rt of the spillway or.was this part of the dam that's in f

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. I that particular location?

EE-It's one of those pillars right up there close to the top.

I MR. JENG: f6r our information, did you'have any 5

more' mention on the design drawings -- maybe the drawing called for no rebar. Or you. knew for sure the drawing 7

required placing'rebars, yet they cut it out.

-Do you have

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-. . . . . _ any more mention.on this account?' Just.in general. drawings which may indicate wh~ther.the e ,

rebar should be there or not there?

you awar,e of anything at all?

11 Well, I forget my foreman's name, but we

. had to replace some of those steel rods -- What do you call

, them,where they'll se.nd me the forms?

14 MR. JENG: A connection?

15 Yeah. And then, they cut the rebar out, 16 It wasn' t according to pririt. - Th't's what I'm

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f' like I say.. a ,

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- 17 saying. That's what my foreman told me; and I can't remember i 18

his name.

d 19 i, MR'. JENG: Ok'ay. Thank you very much.

?

• - 20

, MR. WESSMAN: 'Okay. .Th at concldu es th e questi ons u.

21 that we were specifically coming to talk to you on, 22 Now, you want to offer a comment on one item on that paper; 23 is that right? Can I see the paper for a minute?

24 hands document back to Mr. Wessman.) The item that you

.E 25 wanted to comment on is item E on our May 23rd report;.is

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.., MR. WESSMAN: Okay. This item reads: 1 they would pour concrete in hot and cold 5

weather and the next day we would remove forms and the con-6 ..

crete fell away and they would just pour over it again.

I don't know who took that down,~ but that's .

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'not'my words. 'M ' -

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",- MR.'JENG:1'So,"Es wh'at you remsmber,'this'do's e not

-10 reflect your information'? .You are not making this' statement? ,

I will make a statement.

12 MR. JENG: No. This is.not --

13 -

MR. WESSMAN

You are saying that this statement in 14 this report of ours attributed to you is incorrect; is that what you are saying? --

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I'm saying it's partially correct, but 17 l it's incorrectly worded. That's not what I said. gl 1

18 1

. . MR. WESSMAN: Okay. Would you be so kind as to tell

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'I'm telling you that's partially --

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e, MR. WESSMAN: -- what you -- <

22 WAIT A MINUTE! Okay? l 23 MR. WESSMAN: Okay.

24 The person I called and talked to, I told 25 him that we pour concrete below freezing weather. Okay? The

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1 i next morning when we went to work, you could take a hammer' En 2 i and you could -- you could dig it just like that. Just like ,

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3 that. The very same night we made that pour, I can't remember 4

the night, but they made a' pour on a wall; I don't know 5-where it was at, but it was several people working overtime 6

that night, made a pour on a wall of a reactor over'there 7

an'd the concrete froze on the bolt ring.

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. - - >> '~ .MR.' WESSMAN: Is this a wall of'the reactor ~ building  :.,-

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, or a wall inside the building?. --

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I On the outsidei-- Inside. . . gy; I ..

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, MR. WESSMAN: Inside?' "-

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Inside.

13

_ . MR. WESSMAN: Do you have any idea whereabouts 14 inside?

15 I wasn't working over there.

4. 16 .. . .

i MR. WESSMAN: You didn't see this. This is what .

R l: 17' f you heard or did you see this crumbling or wh.ere this pour' ,

l! 18 H was?

I 19

{-

I 'know there was some guys that stayed i 20 . .

over that night'on the carpenter crew. Okay? The~same 4 '

21

[ night we did and they said that their concrete was in the 22 '

same shape that ours was. It was frozen and you could just 23 take and crumble it out.

24

g. MR. WESSMAN: All right. Do

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you recall the approximate 25 deto of that or even the month that will give us a clue so-s . .

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we can look at the pour records? .

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That wouldn't do you no good.

3 MR. WESSMAN: Nuts.

Nuts 1 What do you mean by that?

5 MR. WESSMAN: Nuts. We want to try and look at the 6

records or know whereabouts --

7 Nuts! Hell! When the records have been 8 ' ' -

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falsified, what are.you going to do?

.  :. : . J

. 9 .," ....- '

. . ~ 'MR.LJENG':

.. We are.',getting'to that. Many, many items, 10

- ~~* -

issues,;, some of them are regarding what you -jus _t mentioned:

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. falsification of records,'nd a we are looking into that area 12 .:

as well.'

13 MR. WESSMAN: All right. Is there anything else about 14 this statement that you want to clarify?

15 ~

I just want to say that the cement was

!~ poured during the cold weather, it froze; tlie hot weather -- -

' '17 I didn't even say that.

i 18

'; MR. WESSMAN: Okay. We'll get that resolved.' Is

[ 19 y there anything else*that you would like to say to us while i 20 j- we're taking notes and on the record?

I Well, let me look through that. Ok'ay?

22 (Mr. Wessman hands document back to This basically 23 says what I'm talking about right here.

24 You're talking about item 4C and MR. WESSMAN: Okay.

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25 D on the second page of this report?

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.=, 2 MR. WESSMAN: Okay. Then I think this is all we want . .;

to try and cover with you, Do you have anything else .

4 that you want to add then? -

5 That's it.

6 MR. WESSMAN: Have you given this statement to us freely 7 ~

and voluntarily? -.

8 You better believe it. -

~

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MR. WESSMAN:

We thank you for your time, Let's 10 ...

go off the record.

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11 (Whereupon the interview was 12 concluded.) .

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_ CERTIFICATE OF' PROCEEDINGS e.. r 2 I 3 This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the 4 Nuclear Regulatory Commission l S-In the Matter of:' COMANCHE PEAK, TECHNICAL 6 INTERVIEW 7 Date of Proceeding: Friday, August 3, 1984 g Place of Proceeding: ~

n were held as herein appears, and that this is the original 10

• transcript.for the file of the Commission.

- ~

11 12 "

Cheryl Lynn Walters, CSR 13 .

Certified Shorthand Reporter 14

. Lswd /

16 CertifledV Korthanci S Reporter 17 N'

18 19 ,

ig.

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