ML071590136
| ML071590136 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Oyster Creek |
| Issue date: | 05/31/2007 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| SECY RAS | |
| References | |
| 50-219-LR, NRC-1597, RAS 13733 | |
| Download: ML071590136 (65) | |
Text
¶?As t3733 Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Oyster Creek Nuclear Generating Station Limited Appearance Docket Number: 50-219-LR Location: Toms River, New Jersey DOCKETED USNRC June 8, 2007 (9:15am)
OFFICE OF SECRETARY Date: Thursday, May 31, 2007 RULEMAKINGS AND ADJUDICATIONS STAFF Evening Session Work Order No.: NRC-1597 Pages 1-63 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
-Th/ynPI tf =sY ' - - 03,;2- *EL4c y- 0 ';
1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 +++++
4 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT SESSIONS 5
6 .
7 REGARDING: Docket No. 50-219-LR 8 AMERGEN COMPANY LLC 9 Oyster Creek Nuclear 10 Generating Station 11 12 13 Thursday, May 31, 2007 14 Ocean County Administration Building 15 Room 119 16 101 Hooper Avenue 17 Toms River, New Jersey 18 The above-entitled session commenced at 7:00 19 p.m. on May 31, 2007.
20 BEFORE:
21 Administrative Judge, E. Roy Hawkins, Chair 22 Administrative Judge, Anthony J. Baratta 23 Administrative Judge, Paul B. Abramson 24 ALSO PRESENT:
25 DEBRA WOLF Law Clerk NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
2 1 CONTENTS 2
3 SPEAKER PAGE 4 David Most, Deputy Mayor, 5 Lace Township 15 6 William White 16 7 Blanche Grubner 21 8 Garry Black 24 9 Laura Cayford 26 10 Glennon L. Depetris, 11 Berkeley Township, 12 Councilman 27 13 Edward A. Schilling 29 14 Beverly Harris 31 15 Arielle Parsons 32 16 Joanne Faber 34 17 Patricia Doyle 35 18 Marilyn Fontanetta 38 19 Betty Gumanow 41 20 Peter Weeks 42 21 Clare Winter 45 22 Cathy Sims 45 23 Andrew A. Brown 47 24 David A. Sims 49 25 Greg Auriemma 50 NEAL F . GROSS COURT REPORTERIS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE I SLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON , D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
3 1 Nancy Eriksen 53 Marianne Clemente 54-3 Grace Costanzo 5.6 4 William White 58 5 Laura Cayford 61 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13
- 14 15 16 17 18 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
4 1P RO C E E D I NG S 2 JUDGE HAWKINS: Good evening. My name is 3 Roy Hawkins. I'm joined on the panel up here by Dr.
4 Tony Baratta, who's a physicist, on my left is Dr.
5 Paul Abramson, who's likewise a physicist but also a 6 licensed attorney.
7 We're administrative judges. We've been 8 appointed to adjudicate the issues raised by six 9 citizen groups in this case, which I'll refer to 10 collectively as "citizens," pursuant to their request.
1.1 And the citizens challenge an application 12 submitted by AmerGen for a 20 year license renewal for 13 the operation of the Oyster Creek nuclear facility.
14 This evening, the board is not here to 15 adjudicate citizens' challenge. Rather, we're here to 16 hold a limited appearance session and I'd like to take 17 a few minutes to explain the difference between those 18 two functions.
19 But at the outset, I'd like to identify 20 with a little greater specificity the parties to this 21 case. First, as I mentioned, there's six citizen 22 groups, which comprise, collectively, citizens, and 23 those groups are, number one, the Nuclear Information 24 and Resource Service, two, the Jersey Shore Nuclear 25 Watch, Incorporated, three, Grandmothers and More for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
5 1 Energy Safety, four, New Jersey Public Interest 2 Research Group, five, New Jersey Sierra Club, and six, 3 New Jersey Environmental Federation.
4 The other two parties to the litigation 5 are AmerGen and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 6 staff.
7 First, let me explain the litigation 8 process, briefly.
9 This board determined that citizens raised 10 an issue that warranted litigation under the governing 11 federal regulation, and that issue is whether 12 AmerGen's UT ultrasonic testing and monitoring program 13 for a portion of the drywell shell is sufficient to 14 maintain an adequate safety margin during the period 15 of extended operation.
16 The board has scheduled an evidentiary 17 hearing, or a trial, to litigate that issue and 18 related issues, and the hearing is scheduled to 19 commence on September 24th, 2007. It will be about a 20 two and a half day trial. We'll be in this area, 21 although the precise location has not yet been 22 determined, but after it has been determined, it will 23 be announced. It will be open to the public.
24 At that hearing, at that trial, all the 25 parties, citizens, AmerGen, the NRC staff, will have NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
6 1 the full opportunity to present their views, to submit 2 evidence, to submit testimony, to create their 3 evidentiary record for the litigation, and to make 4 arguments based on the evidentiary record that they 5 create.
6 Following the hearing, this board will 7 issue a written decision. Our decision can be 8 appealed by any party to the administrative appellate 9 body with the five commissioners who head up the 10 Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Their decision can be 11 appealed by any party to the United States Court of 12 Appeals, and if anybody is dissatisfied with the 13 federal court's decision, they can seek review of that 14 decision in the United States Supreme Court.
15 That's the litigation process in a 16 nutshell, and it's to be distinguished from what we're 17 doing here today, which is a limited appearance 18 session.
19 Federal regulations provide that a board 20 may entertain a written or an oral statement from any 21 person who is not a party to the litigation, so that 22 that party can present his or her position on the 23 issues which may be raised in the litigation.
24 The regulation in this particular case has 25 raised some questions as far as who is a party, who NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
7 1 may speak at this limited appearance session. The reg 2 says any person who is not a party. A party is easy 3 to identify when you have one person bringing suit 4 against another person. Two parties, two individuals, 5 easily identified.
6 Who's a party is not as easily identified 7 when you have a large corporation as a party, when you 8 have six citizen groups who are parties. Should a 9 party be construed as being limited to a board of 10 directors, an officer, a paid employee, a member of an 11 organization? This board, in the interest of being as 12 inclusive as possible in allowing people to speak 13 tonight, but being consistent with the regulations, 14 which say a person who is a party may not speak, this 15 board instructed the attorneys for the parties to 16 provide the board with the name of one party 17 representative for each group.
18 That one party representative for the 19 group would not be permitted to speak tonight, but, 20 rather, anybody else could speak. And I'd like to 21 emphasize that the individuals who are not speaking 22 tonight are not being muzzled or restrained in the 23 expression of their views in any way.
24 Their views are going to be expressed 25 forcefully by the attorneys they've hired at the trial NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
8 1 we're going to conduct in September for two and a half 2 days. They'll be able to present testimony, create a 3 full record. So they are in no means being restricted 4 from presenting their views. Rather, tonight, under 5 the regulation, it's an opportunity for an individual 6 who's not a party to express his or her views, and the 7 regulation recognizes that members of the public, 8 although they're not a party to the litigation, may 9 have a very significant interest in the subject matter 10 of the litigation.
11 So the statements you make tonight are not 12 part of the evidentiary record that will be created in 13 the trial. That record will be created by parties to 14 the litigation. But the statements you make tonight 15 are, nevertheless, very important, they're being 16 transcribed, that's why we ask the speakers who will 17 be talking, or anybody who will be talking to come to 18 the microphone and speak. Comments, statements, oral 19 statements, will be transcribed. They'll be put into 20 the formal docket for the proceeding, and they may 21 help this board, and the parties who are in attendance 22 tonight in the consideration of the issues as they 23 prepare for the litigation.
24 At this point, I do note that several 25 attorneys are in the audience, and I would like to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
9 I1 invite them to step forward and introduce themselves, 2 and introduce as well any individuals that are 3 accompanying them, they would like to introduce.
4 Let's start with citizens, please.
5 MR. WEBSTER: Good evening. Once again, 6 thank you for the opportunity to make a introduction 7 ýhere. I am Richard Webster. I am an attorney up at 8 Rutgers Environmental Law Clinic. We actually are on 9, a pro bono basis. That means without payment, we 10 represent the six citizens groups in the litigation.
11 There are representatives from those groups here 12 tonight who won't be speaking, because they have been 13 determined to be parties.
14 That's Janet Tauro, right here. I see 15 Paul Gunter here. Edith Gbor over here. Any other?
16 That's it. And so -- Abigail is right there -- sorry 17 -- from New Jersey PIRG. And so those people cannot 18 speak here.
19 At the hearing I will represent them as 20 vigorously as possible on the issue that is admitted 21 in the litigation, which is about the frequency of the 22 UT monitoring, but unfortunately, I cannot represent 23 them in that hearing on issues that are outside the 24 contention, and so you won't be hearing from them on 25 other issues.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
10 1 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you very much.
2 Do we have a representative from AmerGen 3 here tonight?
4 MR. FERRARO: Good evening, Your Honors.
5 My name is Don Ferraro. I'm assistant general counsel 6 with Exelon Corporation. With me tonight, I have John 7 Gallagher and John Hufnagel.
8 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you.
9 JUDGE HAWKINS: NRC staff.
10 MS. BATY: My name is Mary Baty and I'm 11 counsel for the NRC staff. With me is my co-counsel, 12 Mitzi Young, and then also with us this evening we 13 have the project manager, Donny Ashley, and also in 14 the audience is Mr. Rich Conti.
15 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Ms. Baty.
16 I'd like to emphasize that the members of 17 this board, my fellow judges, we are not policy 18 makers. Our authority is circumscribed. We 19 adjudicate issues raised by parties during the actual 20 litigation, and therefore, to the extent you'd like to 21 provide information that'd be most helpful to us, for 22 purposes of the litigation that will be conducted in 23 September, it would be helpful to focus comments on 24 the issue that we will be adjudicating which deals 25 with corrosive environment in the drywell shell, the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 drywell shell itself, frequency of ultrasonic testing, 2 and so forth.
3 Let me briefly explain the procedures 4 we'll be using this evening. Some individuals have 5 pre-registered and we'.ll be calling on them to speak 6 first. After that, we'll move on to anybody else who 7 is registered here this evening.
8 If you do wish to speak tonight, we do ask 9 that you register with Ms. Libby Perch out in the 10 front. All you need do is sign up, and then come in.
11 Your. name will be provided to me and we'll call upon 12 you to speak.
13 If anybody wishes to provide views but is 14 disinclined to stand and make an oral statement, we 15 invite you to provide us with your written views.
16 For your convenience, our law clerk, Ms.
17 Debra Wolf, has xeroxed about a 100 pages which 18 contain the information pertinent to this case, and 19 all you need do is put your name on it and put 20 whatever views you would like put into the formal 21 docket for this proceeding.
22 We will be keeping track of your time, and 23 consistent with the Federal Register notice, 24 individuals will be limited to speaking no more than 25 five minutes. Ms. Wolf will be monitoring the time
- NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
12 1 because we could, it's conceivable, we could run into 2 problems if a cluster of people come a little bit 3 later, that we may have to reduce the time from five 4 minutes to a little bit less, to accommodate all the 5 speakers.
6 For the time-being, we'll go up to five, 7 and I'll let you know if we reduce it at all. If 8 somebody, if their time expires, and they still have 9 more to say, I invite you to supplement your oral 10 statement with a written statement.
1i Ms. Wolf will raise an amber card when one 12 minute is left and she'll raise the red card when your 13 time has expired, and when you see the red card go up, 14 we do ask that you try to wrap up as quickly as 15 possible.
16 As a final note, it's important that the 17 board, the parties, and everybody here, allow each 18 person who's presenting his or her views, to present 19 them in an uninterrupted, unimpeded manner, and I 20 therefore ask you to allow each person to make their 21 statement without distraction, without making any 22 noise or comments, either in support of or in 23 opposition to the individual's viewpoint.
24 I would ask you to turn off any cellphones 25 or electronic devices, as well as my colleagues up NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
13 1 here, and I'm not sure if I addressed -- Judge 2 Abramson had a comment he wishes to make.
3 JUDGE ABRAMSON: I think it's very 4 important that you understand the. distinction between 5 this board, which is an adjudicatory board made of 6 judges only, and the NRC. Comments which would 7 ordinarily be addressed to the NRC about general 8 issues such as safety, such as emergency planning, 9 those sorts of things, while we're happy to take those 10 comments and get them into the transcript, and the 11 Commission will have an opportunity to review them, 12 are irrelevant to us as an adjudicatory board.
13 The Atomic Energy Act creates atomic 14 safety and licensing boards, and requires that they be 15 manned by, or femaled by, whatever the proper word is, 16 "personed" by one lawyer and two scientists. I can 17 assure you that the technical matters that we will 18 adjudicate will be thoroughly vetted and dealt with by 19 this board, and you're looking at a board -- Roy 20 Hawkins didn't tell you but he's the chief judge of 21 our panel, Dr. Baratta is the associate chief for 22 technical matters, and I'm a special associate chief 23 for legal and technical matters. There is not a 24 better-qualified board to deal with these issues.
25 But we are to deal with only those matters NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
14 1 that are to be litigated, which in this case Mr.
2 Hawkins has described for you.
3 So we understand that you have general,
.4 other concerns about the plant. They are not relevant 5 to us in the litigation. We are only judges. We 6 don't work for the Commission. We don't take marching 7 orders from the Commission. We don't work for the 8 staff. The staff will participate in the litigation 9 as one of the three parties, the other two being the 10 application and the citizens group.
11 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Judge Abramson.
12 One final note. I think I probably made it clear by 13 my comments, thus far, but this is the opportunity for 14 you to speak. We won't be responding. It won't be a 15 dialogue. It's the opportunity for your oral 16 statements to be made part of the formal docket in 17 this proceeding.
18 I can assure you that we, and the 19 attorneys representing the parties who are here 20 assembled as well, will be listening both with great 21 interest and with great attention to the relevant 22 information that you do bring forward.
23 With that, let us proceed to the first 24 speaker, and that's Mr. David Most, who's deputy 25 mayor, Lacey Township, and he will be followed by Mr.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
15 1 William White.
2 MR. MOST: Good evening to the board and 3 all the residents from Ocean County. My name is Dave 4 Most and I'd like to thank the board for giving me the 5 opportunity to speak to you today as deputy mayor from 6 Lacey Township.
7 The Lace Township committee has full 8 confidence in the NRC's ability to evaluate and 9 oversee the nuclear industry in this country and will 10 support the license approval process for Oyster Creek 11 Nuclear Generating Station under the conditions that 12 Oyster Creek has met the NRC's criteria and safety 13 requirements, to license the plant for another 20 14 years.
- 15. Oyster Creek has been a good neighbor to 16 Lacey Township in the past and we look forward to a 17 continued partnership. Oyster Creek has provided the 18 State of New Jersey with safe, clean, and reliable 19 power, and we look forward to its continued operation.
20 Thank you very much.
21 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, sir.
22 Mr. White will be followed by Ms. Blanche 23 Krubner.
24 MR. WEBSTER: I lust have one request. I 25 think Mr. Most is a plant employee. Could we ask the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
16 1 people to disclose if they have a pecuniary interest 2 in the relicensing process.
3 JUDGE HAWKINS: I will not. If they wish 4 to volunteer that, they may, but as we have instructed 5 everybody, they are appearing and speaking on behalf 6 of themselves, their interest as individual citizens.
7 So if anybody does wish to tell about 8 themselves, any affiliation they have, they're welcome 9 to do so. But we will not impose that requirement.
10 Thank you.
11 Mr. White.
12 MR. WHITE: Good evening. My name is 13 William White. I'm a resident of Ocean County. This 14 is a memento from a past life. It's a photo of a 15 nuclear site. But it's special to me, it has my name 16 on it. Industry Advisory Group, Three Mile Island, 17 April 1979, Bill White, Burns and Rowe. I said it was 18 a past life, Bill White. But that's William.
19 Those of us in the trenches in the sixties 20 and seventies saw Three Mile Island as a enlightenment 21 for the top brass in both Government and industry --
22 badly needed. It was a runaway program, too much too 23 fast, and too little understood.
24 It got the attention of the utility 25 executives in a way that nothing else had before.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
17 1 They looked around and said: You mean these are not 2 like our coal and oil plants? An accident there could 3 bankrupt us. You got into the game pretty soon, 4 pretty fast. Heating plants were canceled about that 5 time. The fifty remaining, that were in operation-,
6 had made major changes to them.
7 There were fif ty under construction. They 8 also had significant changes to them. It is well-9 known that terrific effort was made to develop 10 procedural control over the program. At that time, 11 there had already -- NRC generated a more aggressive 12 program for feedback. When an incident happened 13 somewhere, everybody else found out about it. The 14 lesson was learned. The fix was made.
15 That was a program that'd been ongoing for 16 several years, then, but in a more limited role, for 17 instance, the TMI fire in '75 that lasted for days.
18 Those of us at the BWRs, we heard a lot about it and 19 it had a lot of impact throughout the industry.
20 But the NRC program led to many -- good 21 feedback as a incident happened around the industry, 22 and band aids were applied. It is those band aids 23 that I feel are the reason why the old generation 24 sixties plants are able to limp to retirement.
25 I'm very glad that some of them have NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
18 1 retired. Three of the plants that I worked on as 2 piping engineer, where I started my career, at the 3 Yankee plants, have retired.
4 What I ask is that avarice, or naivete 5 that befalls us here in Ocean County -- the radiation 6 levels at TMI, that I want to talk about, are 7 frailties here, which surround the issue that you are 8 resolving, but specifically to that issue.
9 The radiation issues at TMI were extreme.
10 I felt safe there for the many weeks, even though I 11 left a wife and six children behind. The prime reason 12 for that is that the nasty stuff and the total reactor 13 coolant pressure boundary is contained within a four 14 foot thick leak-tight reinforced concrete building.
15 Even the radiation areas outside, which 16 are limited in a PWR to mainly the demineralizer 17 areas, where enclosed in stout solid concrete, well-18 shielded. Contrast that -- well, let me say, it took 19 that type of construction to give one the confidence 20 to function in that environment, and that's something 21 that I think has stuck with me, and is really, really 22 important in relation to the matter that you are 23 adjudicating on.
24 Contrast that with the Mark One BWR, under 25 similar distressed conditions or anything equivalent NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
19 1 to TMI. The primary containment is a freestanding 2 steel plate vessel.
3 I've seen a lot in the publicity about 4 liners and this and that. It's a steel plate vessel.
5 Most of you know, I see, better than I do about the 6 thickness, but it's somewhere, an inch, or more or 7 less, or that thing -- that's not my issue or my 8 point.
9 The pressure boundary extends outside the 10 containment to the feedwater and main steam isolation
- 11. valves. Enclosure of the buildings housing 12 radioactive systems and spent fuel, it's just metal 13 siding at the upper levels.
14 The difference between those two 15 arrangements in terms of preventing or coping with 16 accidents is monumental.
17 One of the people I'd worked with at 18 Pilgrim for five years came down to help out at TMI.
19 He put it the best, as far as I was concerned. He 20 said, Bill, if anything like this ever happens when I 21 go back to Pilgrim, and I got the red card and I'll 22 give you a bottom line -- he said: If anything like 23 that ever happens at Pilgrim, I want to handle it from 24 the Prudential Center.
25 That was the headquarters, 40 miles north, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
20 1 in the Back Bay.
2 There are many other issues with --
3 including the corrosion issue, I'm not even going to 4 mention. But if you guessed that I don't like, the
.5 Mark One now, I didn't-like then, I don't like it now, 6 since we lost our innocence.
7 You have to keep that in mind. You're a 8 very important judicial body. I understand the 9 limitations but that doesn't prevent you from 10 communicating outside.
11 I just want to say I hope -- if this pun 12 dropped out -- give me a half a minute; okay? If this 13 pun dropped out -- and I don't like puns but this one 14 was: I hope the light bulb flashes, referring to this 15 containment as the light bulb. I hope the light bulb 16 flashes at someone's head who's in authority before 17 it's too late.
18 The bottom line is that the "weak sisters" 19 of the sixties are the prime candidates for the 20 accident that could be "curtains" for nuclear power, 21 including the next generation that's just hitting now.
22 What I wonder is why an enlightened 23 nuclear industry is doing that to themselves. Thank 24 you very much.
25 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. White.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
21 1 Ms. Grubner. Mr. Garry Black is on deck.
2 MS. GRUBNER: Good evening, Your Honors.
3 My name is Blanche Grubner. I am the president of the 4 Ocean County League of Women Voters. After careful 5 study of the issues, the League of Women Voters of 6 Ocean County has taken a stand opposing the 7 relicensing of the Oyster Creek Nuclear Power. Plant 8 because of concerns for the health, safety and 9 security of Ocean County's residents, and the 10 integrity of its environment.
11 The Ocean County League's reasons for 12 advocating the denial of a permit to continue 13 operating the Oyster Creek facility include, one, upon 14 its completion in 1969, the Oyster Creek Nuclear 15 Generating Station at Lacey Township was granted a 16 license to operate for 40 years.
,17 Today, it is the oldest operating nuclear 18 plant in the U.S. Its owners, AmerGen, a subsidiary 19 of Exelon, have applied to the NRC for permission to 20 continue operating for another 20 years, a reactor 21 whose design would not today receive permission either 22 to be built or to go online.
23 Two. According to AmerGen's relicensing 24 application, the containment system could fail if an 25 accident were to occur. This means that the public NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
22 1 would be directly exposed to radioactive steam.
2 Three. The National Academy of Sciences 3 has pointed out that Oyster Creek's antiquated, Mark 4 One design, is a potential terrorist target.
5 Four. The evacuation plan is unworkable.
6 Lessons learned from Hurricanes Katrina and Rita have 7 shown the difficulties with evacuation. Traffic 8 congestion on the two-lane roads in the plant's 9 vicinity is already the daily norm. During off-10 season, it would be impossible to swiftly move out the 11 residents who live in that part of the country.
12 Factoring in the increased population 13 during the summer, there is no way that 200,000 or 14 more individuals could be taken to safety in the 15 middle of a nuclear emergency while emergency vehicles 16 are claiming priority on the inadequate roads, so they 17 can get into the area.
18 Five.. Oyster Creek Nuclear Power Plant 19 contributes only 1.7 percent of the energy on the PA, 20 NJ and MD grid. Presently, there is a surplus of 21 available energy on this grid.
22 The extremely small amount coming out of 23 the Lacey Township facility would not be missed, if 24 the plant were to be closed down.
25 Six. Marine animals are killed because of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
23 1 an outdated and now prohibited cooling system. NJDEP 2 issues an NJPDES's permit every five years. Oyster 3 Creek's permit has already expired. The plant's 4 cooling system is in violation of the U.S. Clean Water 5 Act.
6 A fish kill in 2002 resulted in a $1 7 million settlement with NJDEP. Lisa Jackson, 8 commission of the NJDEP has said, that if her 9 department issues a new NJPDES permit for the plant, 10 the state will have to require that the operating 11 company replace the company's existing once-through 12 cooling system with lower volume closed-loop cleaning 13 towers, because the latter are the best technology 14 available.
15 Installation of the closed-loop cooling 16 system is required by the Clean Water Act.
17 Seven. The NRC admits that all nuclear 18 plants continually give off some amounts of radiation 19 in the process of daily operations. That means that 20 Ocean County residents are exposed to low-level 21 radiation emissions on a routine basis.
22 The National Academy of Sciences has 23 reported that all radiation, even minute quantities, 24 can cause cancer.
25 And last. By 2009, the Oyster Creek plant
- NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
24.
1 will have completed its 40 year life expectancy. It 2 is the Ocean County League's understanding that the 3 plant's decommissioning fund is sufficient to close 4 the plant, dismantle the site and provide its workers
.5 with retraining.
6 The continued operation of this plant will 7 generate more tons of deadly, highly radioactive 8 waste, whose safe disposal this country has no 9 practical, near term, easily-utilized plan. Thank you 10 for your attention.
11 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Mrs. Grubner.
12 Mr. Garry Black. Ms. Laura Cayford is on 13 deck.
14 MR. BLACK: Hello. I'm Garry Black. I'm 15 from Jackson. I'm not part of any agency group or 16 anything. I'm just me. I do regularly speak in this 17 building to the freeholders, so it's a little unusual 18 for me, right here, so I hope you'll bear with me, and 19 thank you for the opportunity to allow people to come 20 up here and speak of their concerns, frustrations.
21 I've been following this, I've been 22 sitting in a lot of meetings, I've been reading this 23 for some time, and I, as a layman, one thing that I 24 found that was missing in the argument, everybody I 25 keep hearing, and frankly, the scientific integrity of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
25 1 some of the antinuclear groups really come into 2 question when you see what's behind me.
3 But that's missing, and I think 4 dangerously missing, everybody wants to talk about 5 terrorism with the plant open. Why isn't anybody 6 bringing terrorism when the plant's closed? It 7 doesn't shut off, become un-nuclear and everything 8 just goes away, and butterflies come out. This 9 thing's still dangerous, either way.
10 Any looking into a terrorist attack, 11 again, has to look both ways. The fact is the thing 12 may actually be more of a terrorist target, being an 13 abandoned nuclear plant, than a functioning one.
14 Evacuation won't change, whether it's open or closed.
15 The place is just as crowded. There's no change 16 there.
17 One of the other things I read, going 18 earlier, was the Operation Tooth Fairy, and from what 19 I read in the paper, if it's accurate, the majority of 20 the radiation was found not in Lacey but towards 21 Bricktown. I'm wondering why nobody wants to address, 22 hey, what happened in Bricktown? Or is it not 23 accurate?
24 If this is the plant, the radiation would 25 come out, not just go, oh, this way, I'll pick this NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202)
- ° 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
26 1 one. It doesn't make sense to me. Again, I'm not a 2 scientist, I'm a layman, and I'm a citizen.
3 And I'm leaning towards keeping it open as 4 long as it can be proven safe. I've heard so many 5 things about this liner, I don't know one way or 6 another now. And again, I have to look at the 7 credibility and the actions of some of the people, and 8 how they present their information, which makes me 9 leaning more to keep it open.
10 But, please, the one thing that was really 11 -- I've not heard at all -- that's why I'm here 12 tonight -- is terrorism's going to be looked at.
13 Please look at it both ways. The thing's just as 14 dangerous either way. Thank you.
15 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Black.
16 Ms. Cayford, and Glennon L. Depetris is on 17 deck.
18 MS. CAYFORD: My name is Laura Cayford, 19 and I feel so strongly about this issue, that I'm 20 willing to come down from Asbury Park. Why should we 21 believe AmerGen, when they don't follow through with 22 their commitments? They've said they would test the 23 water from the buckets; but somehow, it was dumped.
24 The magnitude of the reasons why Ocean 25 County should close are mind boggling. There is no NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
27 1 argument that cannot be refuted with facts. Thank 2 you.
3 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you very much.
4 Edward Schilling is on deck.
5 MR. DEPETRIS: Thank you for allowing me 6 to talk tonight.. My name's Glennon L. Depetris. I'm 7 a councilman from Berkeley Township, Ward 3, which is 8 basically all retirement communities.
9 I come here tonight to speak for the elderly.
10 We are very interested in the outcome of 11 this. We worry about our children, our grandchildren, 12 and the future.
13 Berkeley Township recently passed a 14 resolution which I would like to read to you tonight, 15 if permissible.
16 It was passed on May 21st, 1907 [sic]
17 This is what it states.
18 Whereas the regulatory commission ruled on 19 February the 26th, 2007, that the review of potential 20 effect of terrorism was not required to be considered 21 in the relicensing review of the Oyster Creek Nuclear 22 Power Plant.
23 Whereas the New Jersey State Department of 24 Environmental Protection has filed a petition with the 25 Third Court of Appeals, requesting that an analysis of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
28 1 the potential impact of a terrorist attack should be 2 included in the relicense review.
3 Gentlemen, as a senior citizen, veteran of 4 World War II and of Korea, I represent my people. We
.5 are very concerned that our future, here, in New 6 Jersey, is taken care of in the proper manner.
7 We are not against nuclear. energy. We 8 realize that coal and oil generating stations will be 9 eliminated in the future. We have to go to new types 10 of generation of our electrical power.
11 As our generation gets older and a new 12 generation comes, nuclear energy, electrical energy 13 will be needed more than it is today.
14 There are more and more. things in 15 electrical use today than we ever had before. We know 16 that in the past, we didn't have the electrical 17 scientists we have today.
18 We ask that you take in consideration, and 19 whoever makes the final decision, that the impact this 20 has on the future generation, so hold on for all of us 21 -- we, as senior citizens are very interested in our 22 future, and we thank you for taking the time tonight 23 to listen to us, to express our opinions, to analyze 24 what we have in mind.
25 We are not basically against nuclear
- NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS.
1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
29 1 energy. We are for nuclear energy being used in the 2 proper manner, the waste being stored in the proper 3 manner, and all safety procedures are followed by the 4 nuclear energy installations. We, here, in New 5 Jersey, are only too glad to have the added electrical 6 power added to our grid systems. But we want 7 everything to be kept in a safe, confined area.
8 We ask you to take that in consideration 9 for the future generation, and for our generation 10 which will finally fade away. Thank you.
11 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you and thank you 12 for your familiar service. Mr. Schilling to be 13 followed by Beverly Harris.
14 MR. SCHILLING: Thank you, Your Honors.
15 I'm very pleased, very happy to have this opportunity 16 to express a few points that I have developed ever 17 since listening to the first public hearings that have 18 been offered in Ocean County about the Lacey Township 19 plant, which I watched building from the time I first 20 resided in Ocean County, and very enthusiastically saw 21 it come to life to give us energy.
22 However, I have considered, over the 23 ensuring years, that it is a potential source of 24 danger for us here because of the storage of the spent 25 nuclear fuel rods, 120 feet above ground, and then NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
30 1 across Highway 9 because there wasn't enough room in 2 the storage pool.
3 But in doing my research, over the years, 4 in fact, after the first attendant that I made to 5 Lacey High School in 2003, I came upon an article from 6 the Wall Street Journal that was dated April 9th, 7 2002, where the writer, on the editorial page, quoted 8 the Brookhaven National Laboratory on Long Island, 9 which has said that a fire in a fuel storage pool 10 could release enough radiation to render 188 square 11 miles uninhabitable.
12 In addition, the scientific research 13 Center estimates that tens of thousands of cancer 14 fatalities and financial losses exceeding $50 billion 15 would result from such an accident, from such a 16 nuclear assault upon Oyster Creek.
17 I haven't heard too many people, nor seen 18 too many articles in newspapers, indicating that we 19 are at war, and that we are very much at danger, as 20 evidenced by September 11, and going back a little bit 21 further in time, nobody expected that our Pacific 22 fleet would be destroyed in Pearl Harbor, because it 23 was in a safe harbor.
24 So while I have no immediate solution for 25 the electrical power generation for the PMA grid, I do NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
31 1 believe that the Oyster Creek Nuclear Plant should be 2 retired as of 2009, and until such time as a safer, 3 more reliable energy source is detected, like the 4 experimentation which is going on with plasma energy 5 at Princeton University, and other universities. So 6 as a concerned citizen, I present my case, and I thank 7 you again for giving me this opportunity.
8 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Schilling.
9 Ms. Beverly Harris, to be followed by 10 Arielle Parsons.
11 MS. HARRIS: I'm Beverly Harris from 12 Rumson, New Jersey. I get very nervous talking, so 13 this means a lot to me and that's why I'm speaking.
14 I haven'.t spoken in public since I was in 3rd grade.
15 So this is a very important issue to me, 16 and I'd like all of you to think about, and I'd like 17 the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to tell me their 18 plan for what they will do with the plutonium that's 19 created by the plant, that will last 24,000 years, or 20 longer. It has a half-life of 24,000 years, which 21 means it will be around for 100,000 years, possibly.
22 It's a larger issue than the corrosion of 23 the containment tank. It's a very, very important 24 issue, and thank you, thank you so much for letting me 25 speak.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
3.2 1 JUDGE HAWKINS: Well-stated. Thank you.
2 Arielle Parsons, to be followed by Peter 3 Weeks.
4 .MS. PARSONS:. I'm just a public citizen.
5 I'm also not a great public speaker. I just have 6 several points as you're going into trial, and as the 7 gentleman in black brought up, that he was very non-8 impressed by the groups bringing this litigation
-9 because they have no apparent scientific grounding, in 10 his opinion.
11 I would somewhat concur,. but I think the 12 problem is, is that nobody is allowing for an 13 independent safety review, and as this goes to trial, 14 and my understanding, at trials, you would bring an 15 expert witness.
16 Now it seems to me in this case, AmerGen 17 has all the information. They're given credibility 18 because they supposedly have these facts. We did 19 these tests, here's the information.
20 I think if we truly want to be as factual 21 as possible, we really need to have an independent 22 safety review, so they can present -- well you know 23 what? we did this testing and, actually, we did it 24 last month, and these are the results that we 25 obtained. And I think without that information, the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
33 1 trial is somewhat meaningless in my opinion, because 2 you're really going on the very biased opinion, in one 3 case, and no factual grounding in the other case. So 4 that is one of my points.
5 I just want to say, and. I know this isn't 6 the issue, but I know, given that there are AmerGen 7 representatives, I'll speak to the back of the room, 8 and also as was brought up, the evacuation plan. I 9 know that you're looking at a very specific area when 10 you're looking at the relicensing within this law 11 suit.
12 But I really think that you're all smarter 13 than that. In the back of your mind, you have to keep 14 in mind, if they truly believe the evacuation can 15 happen safely, I would challenge them to have a 16 practice evacuation on a typical day, not we're going 17 to evacuate this neighborhood, okay? It would be, 18 okay, Monday, at 10:00 a.m., wherever you would 19 typically be, you need to get evacuated.
20 And I say that as someone that lives in 21 Pine Beach which is 11 miles from the plant, where 22 Route 9 is my only way out. So I feel strongly about 23 that.
24 Let's see if there's anything else. I 25 guess that's it. Thank you for your time.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
34 1 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Ms. Parsons.
2 Peter Weeks. All right. We'll come back 3 to him. Let's go on to Ms. Joanne Faber, to be 4 followed by Patricia Doyle.
5 MS... FABER: Thank you very much for 6 holding this session. Upon the review of the 7 information -- I'm a citizen of Toms River. I'm also 8 a businesswoman. I'm also, by degree, an electrical 9 engineer. I am also, to a degree, a financier, and I 10 would also consider myself a capitalist.
11 There is no argument I can see, that would 12 justify the relicensing of this facility. It was 13 mentioned earlier, that all data has been thoroughly 14 explored. I would question if even data were 15 minimally explored, this would not be proceeding as it 16 is and has been.
17 As a citizen of the United States, I find 18 it disturbing that people have gag orders in which 19 they cannot speak. What country are we living in now?
20 I mean, what country? And I also question -- it has 21 taken six coalitions to bring light to this issue.
22 This issue has always been the same -- the 23 facility is unsafe. As a citizen of the United 24 States, I am very disturbed, more than anything.
25 Thank you.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
35 1 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you.
2 Patricia Doyle, to be followed by Marilyn 3 Fontanetta.
4 MS. DOYLE: In the spirit of disclosure, 5 I am an attorney. I'm here representing myself as a 6 citizen. I am principal appellate court attorney with 7 New York Supreme Appellate Division, First Department, 8 former staff counsel to the Fourth Circuit.
9 So I speak to you as a very concerned 10 citizen, taxpayer, and resident of Forked River Beach, 11 New Jersey, which is the area of Forked River, Lacey 12 Township, right on Barnegat Bay.
13 And I get up in the morning and I see the 14 most beautiful sight in the world, which is six and a 15 half miles of Barnegat Bay, right in front of my 16 house, because I live on the beach. And I turn around 17 and I see a nuclear plant, perhaps three miles away.
18 My family has owned a house in that 19 location since 1966, and at the risk of dating myself, 20 I remember when there really was a farm there, and 21 there was no nuclear plant.
22 But I have to tell you, I'm not anti. In 23 my life, pre government, I was a corporate 24 transactional attorney for a Wall Street firm, 25 LeBoeuf, Lamb, Greene and Macrea. I understand NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
36 1 business. I understand the machinations of business, 2 and that it's necessary for all of us that business go 3 forward. I understand that, completely.
4 But I can tell you, we also understand, as 5 Committeeman Most said, that it is a good citizen in 6 the township of Lacey. That plant, frankly, pays a 7 lot of taxes for senior citizens, that helps them 8 remain in that area where they have lived so long.
9 The plant also provides a lot of jobs.
10 and I don't dispute that.
11 The other side of the coin needs to be 12 looked at, and I specifically raise the issue before 13 you that is not specific to your litigation, but it's 14 an important issue. It's actually a very quiet issue 15 that concerns me, that none of the groups have raised 16 it. So I will raise it today.
17 And it is the tremendous amount of beach 18 erosion that has gone on, I believe contributed, at 19 least in part, if not substantially, by the cooling 20 system that is currently in place at the plant.
21 The beach in front of my house is perhaps 22 one-third of what it used to be. Lacey Township has 23 taken steps with a rock type product. Fifteen years 24 ago, they put it in. That's how evident the beach 25 erosion was to the township.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v
37 1 I actually became involved in this issue 2 when many neighbors of mine expressed concern about 3 the beach erosion and asked the inevitable question 4 that happens when you're a lawyer, that your neighbors 5 come forward to you and say, What can we do about it?
6 And the next thing you know, I was in the middle of 7 the issue.
8 We went about it because we were looking 9 at the state department, the DEP has a type of grant 10 that we felt might help fund some bulkheading, which 11 we felt would be the more permanent solution to the 12 problem that did not seem to be 100 percent in 13 abeyance.
14 And in my travels, and in my research, I 15 tried to be as diligent as I could be. I talked to a 16 few engineers and I read a few reports by the Army 17 Corps of Engineers. I am not an expert. I mean, I'm 18 an attorney. So I say I don't know anything.
19 But I do know that the reports I read, if 20 I read them correctly, indicate that beach erosion 21 occurs because the direction of the river has been 22 reversed since the building of the plant.
23 In my own simple way, the way I understand 24 it is a river should flow in and flow back out. When 25 it does that, in nature's way, it actually builds up NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
38 1 a beach and builds up the sediment. But when you have 2 a river running in the opposite direction of where it 3 should be running, it actually pulls sediment away 4 from the beach.
5 I'm not saying that's the only 6 contributory factor, but I'm saying the evidence that 7 I have read seems to be credible enough, that I would 8 hope that this is an issue raised and studied. Again, 9 I have on the one minute card. This is not anti, but 10 this is please go forward in a responsible way.
11 I think many people are willing to be 12 cooperative citizens with the plant. We ask, and 13 there are many concerned citizens in Forked River over 14 this plant, who may not be here tonight. We ask that 15 they go forward, cooperatively, with all of us. Thank 16 you.
17 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you.
18 Marilyn Fontanetta, to be followed by 19 Betty Gumanow.
20 MS. FONTANETTA: Good evening, gentlemen, 21 thank you, and ladies, thank you for hearing us this 22 evening. I don't know if this is within the scope of 23 what you're going to consider, but, certainly, I feel 24 it should be considered by the NRC when they're 25 deciding whether to extend the license of this plant.
- NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
39 1 And one of my main concerns is about 2 terrorism, and I understand that it is not going to be 3 considered when they're deciding whether to extend the 4 life of that.
5 I can't understand the logic, if any. of.
6 doing that. Just today, as I was doing my stock 7 research, I came upon this, a posting of a report 8 which was released by the Department of Homeland 9 Security, on May 21st, 2007.
10 The U.S. Department of Homeland Security 11 announced today the completion of 17 sector-specific 12 plans, SSPs, in support of the National Infrastructure 13 Protection Plan. NIPP. N-I-P-P.
14 NIPP outlines a comprehensive risk 15 management framework that defines critical 16 infrastructure protection roles and responsibilities 17 for all levels of government and private industry.
18 The consequences of an assault against 19 America's vast network of critical infrastructure 20 sites could be dire, both in loss of life and in 21 economic impact, said Homeland Security Secretary 22 Michael Chertoff.
23 Homeland Security President Directive 7 24 identified 17 critical infrastructure and key resource 25 sectors that require protective actions to prepare for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
40 1 or mitigate against a terrorist attack or other 2 hazards.
3 The sectors are agriculture and food, 4 banking and finance, chemical commercial facilities, 5 and the fourth one listed is commercial .- nuclear 6 reactors, including materials and waste. Then they go 7 on to dams and defense installations, and so on.
8 The vast majority of the nation's critical 9 infrastructure is owned and operated by private
- 10. industry. SSPs define roles and responsibilities, and 11 establish the strategic objectives required to achieve 12 a level of risk reduction appropriate to each 13 individual sector. Each SSP also establishes -- and 14 I'm skipping certain sections to be briefer --
15 consultative network to facilitate information sharing 16 among federal, state, local, tribal and private 17 sectors.
18 Strategic objectives include protecting 19 critical sector asset systems, networks and functions 20 prior to a terrorist attack or natural disaster, and 21 then rapidly reconstituting critical asset systems and 22 networks after an incident, planning for emergencies 23 and updating response plans.
24 Now in view of the fact that this is a top 25 national priority, I cannot understand why it is not NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
41 1 being given a top priority when considering whether to 2 extend the life of this, the functioning life of this 3 plan for another 20 years.
.4 Thank you for listening.
5 JUDGE HAWKINS; Thank you very much.
6 Ms. Betty Gumanow. I beg your pardon if 7 I mispronounce your name.
8 MS. GUMANOW: I'm standing here as a 9 senior citizen of Ocean County. I'm also handicapped.
10 I'm legally blind. I live in this community and I 11 represent, not legally, but I speak for a lot of 12 people who are handicapped, blind citizens in Ocean 13 County. We have the largest number of citizens, 14 handicapped citizens in all of New Jersey, who live in 15 Ocean County.
16 Even though you mention that safety is not 17 one of your considerations, I really want to stress 18 that we don't want to be considered another Katrina, 19 results of Katrina. I can't drive, I can't read, and 20 I'm really concerned about what would happen to me, 21 and other people like me in case there was an 22 emergency.
23 So I really think that that's really 24 something that has to be considered in renewing this 25 antiquated atomic energy system here. Thank you for
- NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
42 1 listening to me.
2 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you for sharing your 3 thoughts with us.
4 Mr. Peter Weeks, you may step up and 5 speak...
6 MR. WEEKS: It's become aware to me that -
7 - I don't think that what's going on with the steel 8 and the concrete that's underground in the containment 9 vessel is understood by a lot of people. First of 10 all, cement immediately starts reacting with concrete 11 -- or the cement in concrete immediately starts.
12 reacting with steel, as soon as it's poured against 13 it, around it, or with it. Reinforcing rods are 14 historically a problem with reinforced concrete. You 15 see it on bridges every day. You see it in tall 16 buildings in New York City where local law 10 has been 17 implemented to do repairs in this kind of situation.
18 These are situations where one can see 19 them and one can get to them.
20 In the encapsulated part of the vessel, no 21 one can see it and no one can get to it. It's 22 underwater. The tide rises and the tide falls. In 23 those areas where there is corrosion, the corrosion is 24 hidden by the encapsulation of the concrete. It's not 25 easily examined, and to my knowledge, no one has even NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
43 1 taken into account the fact that the cement again 2 causes the steel to rust, and when steel rusts, it 3 oxidizes. It's like ice. It grows. It doesn't
.4 shrink.
5 And when they do tests to find out how 6 thick the walls are, they could be in fact testing 7 outside wall to outside wall, and what's in between 8 could be a big rusted void.
9 We've seen it many times. We see a 10 building where there's a lintel over a window, where 11 it's masonry, and the steel's expanded and blowing 12 itself right out of the building. But that's an 13 obvious case.
14 This is not an obvious case, and it's very 15 hard to decipher how far along it is in its 16 deterioration. Also, again, like a bath tub ring, 17 except one that rises and falls with the tide. You 18 have an oxidation range that's very, very active when 19 it's wet, and then it's dry, and it's wet and it's 20 dry, as it goes up and down.
21 And also, the encapsulated part won't show 22 that it's failing. It'll start breaking up and it'll 23 start falling apart, and there's nothing that can be 24 done about it. And then people can't even get to it, 25 to see it. And that's one of the biggest problems
- NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
44 1 that we have here, since there's no recognition of how 2 severe something could possibly be, after all these 3 years of submersion, number one, and corrosion, active 4 corrosion activity. And nobody's been able to answer 5 that question at this point.
6 It's basically like there's an area of 7 perforation right around that containment vessel at 8 the point between high water and low water, where it 9 keeps active through the whole time, as the tide rises 10 and falls, and nobody seems to be able to answer any 11 of the questions regarding these situations, nor has 12 it even been really raised or addressed, and that's a 13 very critical factor because we know it's leaking, in 14 some form.
15 So where is it leaking from? And concrete 16 doesn't give itself up as far as where that little 17 leak is coming from, and so you have a situation where 18 it could be leaking and seeping, and leaking and 19 seeping from many, many places underneath that 20 concrete, and it couldn't even be found, probably, if 21 you dug the whole thing up, because it's not the kind 22 of thing that shows itself on the surface. It's a 23 very insipid kind of a situation. It's kind of like 24 formaldehyde in a building. It was built into all the 25 products. It was killing you while you were standing NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON,. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
45 1 there, which we might be right now.
2 It's the same kind of a thing. You know, 3 it's not easy to decipher what those exact factors 4 are, or where they are, but it has to be looked for, 5 and it should be recognized that it's a very serious 6 problem. Thank you.
7 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Weeks.
8 Ms. Clare Winter. Ms. Cathy Sims is on 9 deck.
10 MS. WINTER: Good evening, everyone. My 11 name is Clare Winter. Thank you for listening to us.
12 If AmerGen and the NRC have not done it thus far, and 13 if they are still unable to safely transport and store 14 all the nuclear waste produced in this country, in a 15 safe, permanent repository, why are these companies 16 still willing to build up more and more waste and thus 17 jeopardize the nation's health and safety? MY 18 question is: Will we ultimately have to store this 19 waste in everyone's back yards, in the future? Thank 20 you.
21 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you.
22 Ms. Sims, and Mr. Andre Brown is on deck.
23 MS. SIMS: Hi. My name is Cathy Sims and 24 I've been following a lot of the issues that have been 25 in the newspapers for many, many years. That none of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
46 1 it makes sense to me today, why we're even considering 2 relicensing this plant for another 20 years. They 3 don't know what the corrosion level is. They know 4 that it could be extremely dangerous. It could be a 5 huge catastrophe. We know what happened at Chernobyl, 6 which is nowhere near a significant economic place as 7 we are here in Ocean County.
8 It's absolutely ridiculous, why we need 9 this plant to be open, when it's only supplying less 10 than, definitely less than 10 percent, some people say 11 only 2 percent of the electricity on the grid. But 12 even if it was 10 percent, there are things that every 13 average household can do right now, today, in New 14 Jersey, to save 15 to 30 percent of their energy by 15 doing some basic and modern energy efficiency upgrades 16 to their homes.
17 And there are solar energy, renewable 18 energy replacements that can supply the energy that, 19 any additional energy that we may need in this State 20 of New Jersey.
21 We've already got the infrastructure in 22 place. In fact, right now, there are hundreds and 23 hundreds of businesses that are on waiting lists, that 24 have been waiting almost two years to get solar, that 25 want solar, that want to put money into solar.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
I.~
47 1 But the state program has put them on a lie 2 waiting list for almost. two years, and I don't 3 understand why, when we want the energy, it's 4 available, we have clean energy, and we can do energy 5 efficiency to make up any of the deficiency that would 6 happen if Oyster Creek were to shut down today.
7 Now I have another question that I never 8 got answered. Back in August of 05, the plant had to 9 partially shut down immediately because of a large 10 algae and seaweed clump that clogged one of the intake 11 valves, and they never explained how. that happened.
12 So I'm wondering if you're even considering that. Was 13 just some unexpected thing that happened in the middle 14 of the summer, that caused a partial shutdown. And 15 there was another problem that resulted from that, 16 which was that the management at Oyster Creek failed 17 to alert the emergency system that was in place.
18 They didn't do what they were supposed to 19 do in case there was a problem. They would have lost, 20 who knows how many hours of time, to get at least some 21 people out. Thank you.
22 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you.
23 Andrew Brown, to be followed by Mr. David 24 Sims.
25 MR. BROWN: Good evening. My name is
- NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
(j I, 48 1 Andrew Brown, and I am a resident of Toms River and an 2 electrical engineer by trade. As a member of the 3 North American Young Generation in Nuclear, I would 4 like to thank everyone for coming here today.
5 I think this public meeting exemplifies 6 the best of our democratic process at work.
7 Also as a member of the North American 8 Young Generation in Nuclear, I would like to voice our 9 support for the renewal license of Oyster Creek. We 10 believe that the licensee has demonstrated its ability 11 to operate the plant safely, reliably, and securely.
12 We are confident in the ability of its management to 13 ensure the plant complies with the regulatory 14 requirements, and its operators to ensure that the 15 plant is run smoothly, and its maintenance 16 organization to ensure that the components are also 17 operating smoothly, and its engineers to ensure that 18 the plant meets its design basis.
19 We look forward to continuing to 20 participate in the public process as young members of 21 NAYGN, and we thank everyone for participating in the 22 meeting, and thank you very much for allowing me to 23 speak. Thank you.
24 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Brown.
25 Mr. Sims, to be followed by Mr. Greg NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v
49 1 Auriemma.
2 MR. SIMS: Good evening, ladies and 3 gentlemen. My name is David Sims, and I install solar 4 systems for a living, that's what I do, and although 5 I think that it's probably a lot less safe to drive a 6 car than it is to operate a nuclear plant, when you 7 operate a car and get into an accident, the entire 8 region isn't destroyed by it, as what happened in the 9 Ukraine when Chernobyl acted up.
10 If that happened, nobody'd have a car.
11 And what we're talking about is a thing called an 12 accident, and they call it an accident because it's an 13 accident. People don't plan them, and it doesn't take 14 much to completely destroy -- I don't know -- most of 15 Central Jersey, it seems like, if something actually 16 did happen.
17 And we're really talking about something 18 that is just not appropriate to guess at, and not that 19 I'm implying that you guys are guessing at anything.
20 Okay? I know you've got all the top experts giving 21 you all the top opinions.
22 I myself, I'm just a technician, and I 23 know that solar energy could do a lot for the state, 24 but it's just not being pushed enough by the state.
25 There are still restrictive zoning ordinances. All of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www neal~rross.om
50 1 the senior citizen communities, the gentleman so 2 proudly lives in, have ordinances against solar 3 systems still. Wind projects are the same thing.
4 It's nearly impossible to get a permit for 5 wind. Hopefully, all that will change when the 6 governor comes out with his new energy master plan, 7 but it's not happening yet.
8 I think the facts aren't going to do it, 9 but I know that you judges have a way of seeing 10 through the stuff people "lay on you," and making 11 decisions based on, I think something beyond the 12 facts, which is, you know, the truth, which is any 13 accident of a nuclear sort is just simply going to be 14 a real problem. So I hope you'll take that into 15 consideration more than any fancy pictures that 16 AmerGen is going to draw, and has drawn, and, you 17 know, you'll just not risk the future of the whole 18 country, because I think that the Soviet Union almost 19 completely dismantled itself when Chernobyl went down.
20 It was a major production center, as is 21 this area of the country. So good luck.
22 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you.
23 Greg Auriemma, to be followed by Nancy 24 Eriksen.
25 MR. AURIEMMA: Thank you so much for the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
51 1 opportunity to speak before you. My name is Greg 2 Auriemma. I live within a 50 mile radius of the 3 Oyster Creek plant in Bricktown. I want to categorize 4 my comments into two sections. First of all, the 5 procedure that is being followed tonight, which I 6 vehemently object to.
7 I'm here tonight as a private citizen who 8 lives within an area that could certainly be impacted 9 by any incident at Oyster Creek. At the same time, I 10 am somewhat nonplussed and frustrated by the fact that 11 I am not allowed to speak on behalf of my 12 organization.
13 The First Amendment gives us the right to 14 speak, it also gives us the right to organize, and, 15 you know, not allowing us to speak on behalf of our 16 respective organization I deem to be a lobotomization 17 of democracy.
18 It's kind of like giving the British an 19 opportunity to give a checklist, who's going to 20 participate on the tea party in Boston.
21 So in that respect, I vehemently dissent.
22 In terms of the merits, I think that the 23 debate on Oyster Creek has kind of culled itself into 24 three main issues, perhaps four. The first is the 25 drywell, which came within 1/16th of tolerance. That NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
52 1 is akin to playing Russian roulette with not only my
.2 life, but the lives of tens of thousands of residents 3 in Ocean County.
4 Now if we're going to say, well, let's put 5 some additional safeguards in here. Well, they can't 6 even -- when I say "they," meaning Oyster Creek -- and 7 the employers keep buckets handy for examination. Do 8 we really want to entrust the lives of tens of 9 thousands of people for an organization, a corporation 10 that does not even keep buckets available for 11 inspection?
12 The second issue I think which has become 13 most salient is the impact upon marine life. I 14 believe that based upon the Second Circuit decision --
15 and I am an attorney, that clearly, Oyster Creek has 16 to comply with employing the secondary cooling towers 17 that would stop the mass destruction of marine life in 18 Barnegat Bay, and this august body should abide by 19 that decision.
20 The third thing is that the Ninth Circuit 21 has recently ruled that the NRC should take into 22 account the impact of a terrorist attack on those type 23 of facilities.
24 We now have nuclear waste piled close to 25 70, 75 feet in the air. Please don't tell me that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
53.
1 that would not be a target for a potential terrorist.
2 And again, according to the law, as enunciated by the 3 Ninth Circuit, this issue that has to be addressed, 4 that AmerGen and Exelon have not addressed, they're 5 ignoring those issues, they're ignoring the Second 6 Circuit decision, and it has to be something that has.
7 to be taken to serious discussion in terms of the 8 ultimate decision that the NRC has to make. And I 9 hope you will take those comments into serious 10 consideration. Thank you.
11 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you.
12 Nancy Eriksen.
13 MS. ERIKSEN: I'm Nancy Eriksen from 14 Forked River. I'm on the board of directors of United 15 Way of Ocean County, and I'm here to speak on behalf 16 of Anu Gupta who is the executive director of United 17 way of Ocean County.
18 As of this date, Oyster Creek has raised 19 about $1.5 million for United Way of Ocean County.
20 Oyster Creek staffs various committees which are vital 21 to the business health of United Way of Ocean County.
22 Oyster Creek allows its employees to 23 belong to the United Way board of directors, 24 obviously, and one of their employees, Phil Scallon, 25 is the president of the board of directors.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
54 1 Throughout the year, Oyster Creek donates 2 thousands of hours, and thousands of dollars, to 3 United Way of Ocean County, to all their activities, 4 whether it be fund-raisers or various charities.
5 Oyster Creek is a backbone support of 6 United Way of Ocean County. It provides at least 14 7 percent of the annual goal for United Way of Ocean 8 County. They are an invaluable asset to Ocean County 9 and United Way of Ocean County would be in dire 10 straits without Oyster Creek, without their support.
11 Thank you for the opportunity to .speak 12 tonight.
13 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you very much.
14 I have a Marianne Clemente who's asked to 15 speak. I believe we heard from her already, but 16 seeing as everybody who wanted to speak this evening, 17 for the first time, has had the opportunity, Ms.
18 Clemente wanted to speak a second time and share her 19 views with you, and we have no objection to that.
20 MS. CLEMENTE: Thank you. I guess I 21 really have to thank you for allowing me to speak 22 tonight, because this is the third time that I've 23 gotten to speak. My name is Marianne Clemente from 24 Barnegat. I'm fairly close to the Oyster Creek plant.
25 I am going to, Judge Hawkins, going back to the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
55 1question I left you with in the earlier session, about 2 the purpose of this hearing is a limited appearance 3 hearing, *and when I asked whether you were going to 4 take into consideration things that people say in your
- 5. deliberations, you indicated that that wasn.'t the 6 purpose.
7 But then, beginning today, this evening, 8 you had said that what is being said here would be 9 helpful to you in your further actions.
10 Now I think I may have heard -- again, I'm 11 not a lawyer. I'm just trying to understand it. I'm 12 the type of person that will ask a million questions 13 until I understand it. So bear with me.
14 You had indicated that this hearing was 15 only related to the containment issues, was those 16 parts of the discussions that people have brought up 17 would be brought into your purview. In other words, 18 what Mr. White has presented and what Mr. Weeks has
.19 presented. We're talking very specifically about the 20 containment. Is that part of what you would be 21 including in your purview of -- I'm still confused by 22 what we are all doing here.
23 Is it just here to make us all feel better 24 that we're "getting off some steam?" Is that what the 25 purpose is of this meeting, or I'm still a little NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
56 1 confused. Can you help me be unconfused.
2 JUDGE HAWKINS: I have tried to help you 3 already. I've said what the limits of this proceeding 4 are, and one of the principal limits is it's not an 5 opportunity to engage the judges in a dialogue. This 6 is the second time already that I have been brought 7 into one.
8 I'm going to decline. I've already 9 addressed it twice in the introductory comments, which 10 you heard. I already answered the question once and 11 I will refer you to Mr. Webster, because I'm sure he 12 clearly understands the purpose.
13 MS. CLEMENTE: Okay. And in terms of it's 14 very disconcerting to hear someone get up and speak 15 from United Way in terms of the money that the Oyster 16 Creek helps them raise. Instead of talking about 17 people's lives in this county, they're concerned about 18 the money.
19 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Ms. Clemente.
20 Is there anyone else who would like to 21 speak orally? I would you to step outside and sign 22 the register and we look forward to your return.
23 MS. COSTANZO: My name is Grace Costanzo.
24 I know I spoke this afternoon, but I would like to 25 address the question that the gentleman had earlier, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
57 1 regarding why we haven't looked at leaving the spent 2 fuel on site, how dangerous that would be, even if the 3 plant is closed. Okay. We have 40 years of spent 4 fuel on site. It's, as they said earlier, as I said 5 earlier., it's got a life span of, could be millions of 6 years, being deadly radioactive. I'm a little bit 7 nervous because I haven't got anything written.
8 Anyway, spent fuel that's on site now, 9 okay, if, some day in the future, the experts, nuclear 10 experts, come up with a plan to either bury this 11 waste, to safely transport it somewhere, maybe they'll 12 go to the moon -- who knows? -- then what's there now, 13 okay, will take a lot of people to do that.
14 However, if you're going to put another 20 15 years of that deadly radioactive spent fuel on site at 16 400 feet off of Route 9, it's another 20 years of it.
17 We already have tons and tons there now.
18 I mean, what's going to happen? Do we 19 need more nuclear spent fuel on site? I don't think 20 so. So closing this plant would really be the ideal 21 situation for now. Okay. Main Yankee was closed.
22 They have a legacy and they don't like it, but the 23 next how many generations, we don't know. We have a 24 legacy that we're giving to our children, our 25 grandkids, the future generations, of deadly nuclear NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
58 1 fuel right in our back yards.
2 And one of the ladies said, Where are they 3 going to put it, in the back yard? We don't want any 4 more of this fuel. We don't need any more of this 5 fuel. We don't need the plant. We don't need 6 anything from Oyster Creek. We need Oyster Creek to 7 be shut down. That's what we need. Thank you.
8 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, again, Ms.
9 Costanzo.
10 Is there anybody else?
11 Mr. White.
12 MR. WHITE: Thank you.
13 JUDGE HAWKINS: Mr. White, do you think 14 you'll be able to present your comments in four 15 minutes? Would that be enough?
16 MR. WHITE: Thank you; appreciate it.
17 Okay. There's a flaw in the rulemaking that governs 18 the nuclear relicensing, 10 CFR 54. I wondered why 19 red flags were not coming up in the staff's review and 20 the ACRS review with regard to the efficiencies in the 21 Oyster Creek type plant.
22 And I found that flaw in a three letter 23 acronym, CLB, Current Licensing Basis, which in effect 24 is the original licensing basis plus whatever happened 25 in the meantime.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
59 1 What that means is identifying the current 2 licensing basis as adequate. This allows the staff to 3 miss very obvious things. For instance, special 4 separation of redundant components has been known to 5 be a tremendous risk reducer.
6 Only became aware as, from, starting with 7 the Browns Ferry fire, and so forth. If you ever know 8 an aged plant with two diesel generators, 100 percent 9 redundant, but adjacent to each other, relying on one 10 oil tank, why would the staff not ask that another 11 diesel be located the other side of the plant to give 12 redundancy.
13 The co-location of merging these 14 generators, without which the lights are out, is 15 extremely deficient for this plant. But the 16 relicensing process, or license renewal process, this 17 is that type of thing.
18 There are other issues in the old 19 generation BWRs that are perhaps more complex, but 20 nonetheless, real problems, and they're being missed 21 in the review process also. I understand that they're 22 beating the limitations of your evaluations and 23 adjudication, but I'm looking for opportunities to 24 bring these things to the forefront, and to life.
25 A second type issue is the core cooling NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
60 1 systems have been improved under the generation of 2 BWR, after the vintage plants of the sixties. What's 3 missing therefore, when the improvements are made, 4 mean that the old generation still requires the 5 reactor coolant pressure to be lowered in the event of 6 a small pipe break in the containment. A large pipe, 7 a small pipe break, the pressure has to be lowered.
8 You follow that sequence through, with 9 perhaps an operator miscue, you find echoes of the TMI 10 event very scary. Parallels are just ominous.
11 And therefore, with those parallels, TMI 12 happened from a very simple event -- condensate pump 13 trip. It wasn't even a pipe break. Feedwater 14 isolated. Take it from there to a small pip break in 15 this congested containment. And I've been inside 16 those containments. Believe me, they're congested.
17 A small pipe break is going to do damage to redundant 18 systems.
19 It will not respect the single failure 20 criterion of 10 CFR 50, appendix A, which says we're 21 safe, provided there's only one single failure.
22 Those, and there are many others, but the 23 point is 10 CFR 54, following the GALL Report, muzzles 24 independent assessment and evaluation from the staff 25 and ACRS. CLB is a major problem and a major issue.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
61 1 Someone needs to get to it before you really have a 2 problem. Thank you very much.
3 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you.
4 You may have four minutes as well in the 5 interest of fairness.
6 MS. CAYFORD: I just want to reinforce 7 what Marianne Clemente said. United Way, or a school 8 district, or any such group, is not really having the 9 welfare of citizens, in general, in mind, if they let 10 themselves be used by Oyster Creek.
11 Thank you.
12 JUDGE HAWKINS: Refresh my memory on your 13 name, please.
14 MS. CAYFORD: Laura Cayford.
15 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you.
16 Anybody else?
17 If not, the board is grateful for 18 everybody's expression of their viewpoints tonight, 19 they were well-articulated and really an expression of 20 deep convictions and very sincerely held views.
21 We thank you, and this session is now 22 closed. Oh. Judge Abramson would like to say a few 23 words.
24 JUDGE ABRAMSON: Before we close out, 25 there are a couple of things that I think we should NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
62 1 all note. First of all, the vast bulk of the comments
- 2 we've heard this afternoon and this evening are 3 addressed to matters well outside the control of this 4 judicial body, as some of you have noted.
5 What I would suggest is two things. First 6 of all, there are members of the staff here. For 7 those of you who aren't aware of this, Nuclear 8 Regulatory Commission staff reviews the application.
9 They're the one who I assume will be taking note of 10 your comments, and to the extent that you are i concerned that they are not taking. note of your 12 comments, I would encourage you to contact the staff, 13 in writing, or contact the Commission, in writing, on 14 those issues you have raised today.
15 Second, to the extent that you're raising 16 policy matters, we don't make policy, and you're 17 wasting your breath onus, but they should be heard by 18 the staff, and they should also be taken up with your 19 elected legislators.
20 And finally, for those of you who have 21 commented about this board muzzling people, we've done 22 no such thing. In fact, what this board has done is 23 stretch the limits of the regulations to allow as many 24 people as possible to comment, narrowing the number 25 who are limited, or restricted from commenting to one NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
63 1 single representative per party.
2 JUDGE HAWKINS: Ms. Wolf reminded me that 3 she did also kindly make a number of copies of the 4 Federal Register, which are outside on the table. So 5 if anybody, after this limited appearance session, 6 remembers something that they wanted to be included in 7 the formal docket of this proceeding, please pick up 8 a copy of that Federal Register and it contains 9 instructions on how to submit a written view.
10 That concludes this session. Thank you 11 very much.
12 [Whereupon, at 8:32 p.m., the public 13 session was concluded]
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Oyster Creek Nuclear Limited Appearance Docket Number: 50-219-LR Location: Toms River, New Jersey were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
Christine Buntingl' n Official Reporter Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com