ML072670548
| ML072670548 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Oyster Creek |
| Issue date: | 09/20/2007 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| SECY RAS | |
| References | |
| 50-0219-LR, ASLBP 06-844-01-LR, NRC-1781, RAS 14167 | |
| Download: ML072670548 (99) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings
- NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Oyster Creek NGS: Evidentiary Hearing Docket Number:
50-0219-LR; ASLBP No.: 06-844-01-LR DOCKETED USNRC Location:
Rockville, Maryland September 24, 2007 (10:30am)
OFFICE OF SECRETARY RULEMAKINGS AND ADJUDICATIONS STAFF Date:
Thursday, September 20, 2007 Work Order No.:
NRC-1781 Pages 179-275 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 Th'ie/ip /ccie = -S I Cy>-
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179 1
UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 3
4 EVIDENTIARY HEARING 5
6 7
IN THE MATTER OF:
8 AMERGEN ENERGY COMPANY, LLC Docket No.: 50-0219-LR 9
(License Renewal for Oyster ASLBP No.: 06-844-01-LR 10 Creek Nuclear Generating 11 Station) 12 13 Third Floor Hearing Room 14 Two White Flint North 15 11555 Rockville Pike 16 Rockville, MD 20852-2738 17 18 Thursday, September 20, 2007 19 20 The above-entitled matter came on for 21 hearing, pursuant to notice at 10:00 a.m.
22 BEFORE:
23 THE HONORABLE E.
ROY HAWKENS, Chairman 24 THE HONORABLE PAUL B.
ABRAMSON 25 THE HONORABLE ANTHONY J.
BARATTA NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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APPEARANCES:
2 On Behalf of the AmerGen Energy Company, LLC:
3 DONALD J.
SILVERMAN, ESQ.
4 RAPHAEL P.
- KUYLER, ESQ.
5 Of: Morgan Lewis & Bockius, LLP 6
1111 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW 7
Washington, DC 20004 8
(202) 739-5502 9
10 On Behalf of the NRC:
11 MARY BATY, ESQ.
12 MITZI YOUNG, WSQ.
13 US Nuclear Regulatory Commission 14 Office of the General Counsel 15 Mail Stop -
0-15 D21 16 Washington, DC 20555-0001 17 18 On Behalf of Citizens:
19 RICHARD WEBSTER, ESQ.
(via telephone) 20 Rutgers Environmental Law Clinic 21 123 Washington Street 22 Newark, NJ 07102-3094 23 (973) 353-5695 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 3
4 5
6 7
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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 APPEARANCES:
(CONT.)
On Behalf of Citizens: (cont.)
KEVIN KAMPS Of: Beyond Nuclear 6930 Carroll Avenue, Suite 400 Takoma Park, MD 20912 (301) 270-2209 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 3
4 5
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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TABLE OF CONTENTS EXHIBIT Applicant A-D and 1-61 Citizens A-D and 1-62 Staff A-D and 1-6 MARK RECD 199 199 231 232 245 247 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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PROCEEDINGS 2
10:01 A.M.
3 JUDGE HAWKENS:
My name is Roy Hawkens.
4 I'm the Chairman of this Licensing Board, and I'm 5
joined by Judge Paul Abramson.
The third Member of 6
the Board is Dr.
Tony Baratta who is not with us 7
today.
He had a
- conflict, but the Commission 8
regulations do permit us to proceed in his absence and 9
he agreed that we should proceed in his absence.
10 Would counsel for the parties please 11 introduce themselves for the record, starting with the 12 NRC staff?
13 MS.
BATY:
My name is Mary Baty and co-14 counsel Mitzi Young.
15 MR.
SILVERMAN:
My name is Don Silverman.
16 I'm with Morgan Lewis and Bockius and counsel to 17 AmerGen Energy.
And with me is Mr.
Ray Kyler, also 18 counsel to the company.
19 MR.
WEBSTER:
I am Richard Webster.
I'm 20 with Rutgers Environmental Law Clinic and we represent 21 the six citizens' groups who are the Intervenors in 22 this proceeding.
23 JUDGE HAWKENS:
- Thank, and you have an 24 agent here representing you, Mr. Webster?
25 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Yes, I have Mr. Kevin Kamps NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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from Beyond Nuclear who serves as an agent for the 2
Nuclear Information Resource Service who is one of the 3
six citizens, which is one of the six citizens' 4
groups.
5 JUDGE HAWKENS:
Thank you.
I can note for 6
the record Mr. Webster is participating by telephone.
7 Mr.
- Webster, if you have any difficulty hearing us,
(
8 please let us know and we'll speak a little bit more 9
loudly more directly into the microphones.
10 MR.
WEBSTER:
Will do.
Thank you, Judge.
11 JUDGE HAWKENS:
I should also note for the 12 record, the docket number is 50-0219-LR.
13 As explained in the Board's notice of 14 September 7, we'll convene an evidentiary hearing in 15 Tom's
- River, New Jersey on this coming
- Monday, 16 September 24th to consider Citizens' challenge to 17 AmerGen's application for a license renewal for the 18 Oyster Creek plant.
19 Because the parties seek to complete the 20 evidentiary hearing in two and a half days, that is by 21 noon on Wednesday, to accommodate the observance of 22 Sukkot, they suggested and we agreed to convene today 23 to admit evidence and exhibits into the record.
24 The parties previously have provided to 25 each other and to the Board the material that will be NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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admitted today.
They've had the opportunity to submit 2
motions in
- limine, challenging the initial written 3
submissions and the written responses and they've 4
taken advantage of that opportunity, moving to strike 5
certain matters on various grounds including the 6
ground that a witness' expertise did not extend to 7
issues about which he provided testimony.
8 The Board issued written rulings on those 9
motions and the objections in those motions need not 10 be advanced again today or next week.
The objections 11 in the motions in limine are noted for the record on 12 the transcript and they are preserved for purposes of 13 appellate review.
14 The Board has two motions in limine 15 pending before it.
- First, we have AmerGen's motion to 16 exclude portions of Citizens' surrebuttal and that 17 motion is dated September 18.
The NRC staff supports 18 the motion in part.
Citizens opposed that motion.
19 The second motion we have before us is the 20 NRC staff's motion to exclude portions of Citizens' 21 reply and the NRC staff's motion is dated September 18 22 also.
AmerGen supports the motion and Citizens' 23 oppose it.
24 The Board has considered the motions and 25 the responses to those motions and the Board denies NEAL. R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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both motions.-
We also note that those motions in 2
limine dated September 18 of the staff and of AmerGen 3
are noted for the record on the transcript and 4
preserved for purposes of appellate review.
So those 5
objections need not be repeated today or next week.
6 If there are no questions on those 7
- matters, let's proceed to the admission of the 8
parties' exhibits.
As I
previously stated, the 9
parties have already provided one another and the 10 Board with copies of the material that will be 11 submitted today as exhibits into evidence.
The 12 Board's law clerk, Ms. Wolf, has provided instructions 13 regarding the proper marking and indexing of that 14 material and let's go through the mechanics of the 15 admission process right now.
Let's start with the NRC 16
- staff, if they're prepared --
17 MS.
YOUNG:
Judge Hawkens, the staff had 18 a
glitch in preparing its exhibits for SECY this 19 morning which is the reason for our tardiness in 20 attending this morning and we preferred not to go 21 first if that's possible.
22 JUDGE HAWKENS:
That is possible.
We can 23 proceed to AmerGen, if AmerGen is prepared.
24 MR.
SILVERMAN:
We are prepared, Your 25 Honor.
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-JUDGE HAWKENS:
I would suggest, Mr.
2 Silverman, if you haven't already, if you would 3
provide Ms.
Wolf with the material.
What you can do 4
then is have counsel for AmerGen go through the index, 5
identify each item by number or by letter, and give a 6
brief description so that Ms.
Wolf can confirm the 7
proper identification of each exhibit and confirm that 8
each one is actually what it says it is.
I don't 9
anticipate it will take more than a couple of seconds 10 for each item.
And then after we've completed that 11 with all of your exhibits, we'll go through the 12 mechanics of actually introducing them into evidence.
13 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Very good.
14 (Pause.)
15 JUDGE HAWKENS:
Mr. Silverman, when you're 16 ready to start marching through the index, identifying 17 each item and giving it a brief description, Ms.
Wolf 18 says she's ready to go.
19 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Okay, we'll do that now.
20 Thank you, Your Honor.
21 Good morning, and I will go through the 22 list of exhibits and if anyone has any questions along 23 the way, please let me know.
24 We have Applicant's Exhibit A which is a
25 comprehensive list of Applicant's exhibits in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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accordance with the Board's prior orders.
2 We have Applicant's Exhibit B which is 3
Applicant's initial direct testimony that was pre-4 filed.
5 We have Applicant's Exhibit C which is the 6
pre-filed rebuttal testimony of Applicant's.
7 We have C.1 which is our surrebuttal 8
testimony.
9 We have Exhibit D which is the curriculum 10 vitae of all of our witnesses.
11 We then go to the numbered exhibits.
12 Exhibit 1 is also a set of curriculum vitae.
This 13 includes all of our witnesses with the exception of 14
- one, that's Dr. Har Mehta, M-E-H-T-A.
He is included 15 in Exhibit D.
He is not included in Exhibit 1, but 16 his --
so that is somewhat duplicative, but his bio 17 also appears at Applicant's Exhibit 36.
18 Applicant's Exhibit 2 are extracts from 19 AmerGen's license renewal application for the Oyster 20 Creek plant, Section 2.4.1 and Table 3.0-2.
21 Applicant's Exhibit 3
is a
letter from 22 Michael P.
Gallagher to the NRC, dated December 8,
23 2006 enclosing AmerGen's submittal of information to 24 the Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards License 25 Renewal Subcommittee on the drywell corrosion issue NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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history.
2 Exhibit 4 is a schematic drawing of the 3
cross section of the drywell, the portion embedded 4
into a concrete pedestal atop the reactor building 5
concrete foundation.
6 Exhibit 5 is a schematic drawing of the 7
drywell shell exterior.
8 Exhibit 6 is a schematic drawing showing 9
the top view of the ten bays in the sandbed region.
10 Exhibit 7 is a schematic drawing showing 11 detail of the lower drywell sandbed region.
12 Exhibit 8 is a schematic drawing showing 13 detail of the reactor cavity seal and trough drain.
14 Exhibit 9 is a schematic drawing showing 15 detail of the reactor cavity.
16 Exhibit 10 is a
letter from Michael P.
17 Gallagher to the NRC dated February 15,
- 2007, 18 enclosing AmerGen's additional commitments related to 19 aging management program for the drywell shell.
20 Exhibit 11 is drawings of the.536 inch 21 local buckling acceptance criterion tray front and 22 isometric views.
23 Exhibit 12 is a
letter from Michael P.
24 Gallagher to the
- NRC, dated December 3,
- 2006, 25 enclosing AmerGen's license renewal application NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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supplement, post 2006 refueling outages, pages 13 and 2
14.
3-Exhibit 13 is a
letter from Michael P.
4 Gallagher to the NRC, dated April 7,
- 2006, enclosing 5
AmerGen's response to the NRC request for additional 6
information related to corrosion in the sandbed 7
region, pages 3 through 7.
8 Exhibit 14 is an email from George Beck, 9
Exelon, to Donnie Ashley and Roy Matthew of the NRC, 10 dated April 5, 2006, enclosing AmerGen's response to 11 NRC audit question
- AMP, that's A-M-P, dash
- 210, 12 subquestion 3,
regarding drywell corrosion in the 13 sandbed region.
14 Exhibit 15 is the NRC safety evaluation 15 report related to license renewal for the Oyster Creek 16 Generating Station, dated March 2007.
The pages there 17 are pages 4-53 to 4-60.
18 Exhibit 16 is Exelon calculation number C-19 1302-187-5320-024, rev. 2, dated May 18, 2007 entitled 20 OC drywell exterior UT evaluation in the sandbed.
21 Exhibit 17 is GPU calculation number C-22 1302-187-5320-24, rev.
0, dated April 16,
- 1993, 23 entitled OC drywell exterior UT evaluation in the 24 sandbed.
25 Exhibit 18 is Exelon calculation number C-NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1302-187-5320-024, rev.
1, dated September 21, 2006 2
entitled OC drywell exterior UT evaluation in the 3
sandbed.
4 Exhibit 19 is technical evaluation AR-A 5
2152754E09, dated November 7, 2006, regarding water 6
found in drywell trench 5, UT data evaluation.
7 Exhibit 20 --
8 MS.
WOLF:
Give me one second.
9 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Sure.
10 MS.
WOLF:
Okay.
11 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Exhibit 20 is Exelon 12 calculation number C-1302-187-E310-041, December 15, 13
- 2006, entitled statistical analysis of drywell vessel 14 sandbed thickness data 1992,
- 1994, 1996, and 2006.
15 Exhibit 21 is AmerGen's Oyster Creek 16 Generating Station license renewal ACRS presentation, 17 slide 75 through 76, dated January 18,
- 2007, showing 18 statistical methodology used to evaluate external UT 19 grid measurements.
20 Exhibit 22 is GPU calculation number C-21 1302-187-5300-005, dated February 2,
1989 entitled 22 statistical analysis of drywell thickness data through 23 12/31/88.
24 Exhibit 23 is GPU calculation number C-25 1302-187-5300-011, pages 1 to 40, dated April 12, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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- 1991, entitled statistical analysis of drywell 2
thickness data through 4/24/90.
3 Exhibit 24 is ASME IWE Class MC 4
containment visual examination records, recording the 5
VT visual examinations of the drywell shell in all.
10 6
bays in the sandbed region during the 2006 refueling 7
outage, dated October 2006.
8 Exhibit 25 is a table showing the location 9
mean thickness by date and the 95 percent confidence 10 interval of the internal UT grid data for the sandbed 11 region, 1992.
12 MS.
WOLF:
I'm sorry, can you hold on for 13 one moment?
14 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Absolutely.
15 MS.
WOLF:
Can you repeat that?
16 MR.
SILVERMAN:
- Yes, table showing the 17 location mean thickness by date and the 95 percent 18 confidence interval of the internal UT grid data for 19 the sandbed region, 1992.
20 MR. WEBSTER:
This is Richard here.
Could 21 I
just ask you if people are asking you questions, 22 because it appears that you're responding to 23 questions, but I don't hear a question.
24 MR.
SILVERMAN:
The questions are really 25 Ms. Wolf just asking me to slow down and wait for her NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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to catch up in reviewing the documents.
2 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Okay, thank you.
Sorry.
3 MR.
SILVERMAN:
This table was prepared in 4
response to a Licensing Board order.
5 Exhibit 26 is AmerGen's Oyster Creek 6
Generating Station license renewal ACRS presentation, 7
slide 94, dated January 18,
- 2007, showing a table of 8
general sandbed region thicknesses at 19 grid 9
locations.
10 Exhibit 27 is Oyster Creek drywell vessel 11 corrosion mitigation, TDR number 1108, dated April 29, 12 1993.
13 Exhibit 28 is AmerGen's Oyster Creek 14 Generating Station ACRS Full Committee presentation, 15 slide 14, showing a comprehensive map of all interior 16 and exterior 2006 UT inspection
- results, dated 17 February 1, 2007.
18 Exhibit 29 is AmerGen Oyster Creek 19 Generating Station license renewal ACRS presentation, 20 dated January 18, 2007, two slides showing photographs 21 of the exterior UT inspection locations.
22 Exhibit 30 is ACRS License Renewal 23 Subcommittee meeting transcript excerpts discussing 24 sources of water in the sandbed region, dated October 25 3,
2006.
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Exhibit 31 is ACRS License Renewal 2
Subcommittee meeting transcript excerpts discussing 3
sources of water in the sandbed region, dated January 4
18, 2007.
5
. Exhibit 32, propose change to OCNGSPM, 6
preventive maintenance data base, for drywell and 7
torus to implement license renewal commitments, PM 8
18704M, as in Mary, July 12, 2006.
9 Exhibit 33 is OCNGS work order number 10 R2076388, dated October 2, 2006, leakage monitoring of 11 torus, sandbeds and reactor drain.
12 Exhibit 34 is tuboscope TK-7, modified 13 phenolic coating product technical information.
14 Exhibit 35 is DIVO coatings data sheets 15 for the epoxy coating system installed in the Oyster 16 Creek sandbed region, DIVO pre-prime 167 and DEVRAN 17
- 184, 100 percent solids epoxy tank coating.
18 Exhibit 36 is the curriculum vitae of Dr.
19 Har Mehta which is also included, as I
indicated 20
- earlier, in Exhibit D.
21 Exhibit 37 is NRC safety evaluation, dated 22 April 24,
- 1992, drywell structural integrity, Oyster 23 Creek Nuclear Generating Station.
24 Exhibit 38 is Oyster Creek Nuclear 25 Generating Station updated final safety analysis NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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195.
1
- report, revision 13, dated April
- 2003, portions 2
discussing design of Category 1 structures including 3
the Mark 1 containment system drywell.
4 Exhibit 39 is a letter from Dr. H.S. Mehta 5
of GE to Dr.
S.
Tuminelli, T-U-M-I-N-E-L-L-I, Oyster 6
- Creek, entitled "sandbed local thinning and raising 7
the fixity height analyses",
line items 1 and 2 in 8
contract number PC-0391407, December 11, 1992.
This 9
letter summarizes the sensitivity analysis used to 10 established the sandbed region local - buckling 11 acceptance criterion.
12 Exhibit 40 is AmerGen Oyster Creek 13 Generating Station License Renewal ACRS presentation, 14 dated January 18,
- 2007, all slides.
15 Exhibit 41 is AmerGen Oyster Creek 16 Generating Station ACRS Full Committee presentation, 17 February 1, 2007, all slides.
18 Exhibit 42 is ASME Code Section 3, Case 19 N284-1, metal containment shell buckling design.
20 Exhibit 43 is figure showing Bay 19 UT 21 thickness measurements and the significant difference 22 between two types of statistical confidence limits.
23 Exhibit 44 are scaled maps of internal and 24 external UT thickness measurements for Bays 1, 13, 17, 25 and 19.
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Exhibit 45 is ASME Code Section 11, Case 2
N, as in Nancy, 513, evaluation criteria for temporary 3
acceptance of flaws in Class 3 piping.
4 Exhibit 46 is NRC Bulletin 87-01, entitled 5
"Thinning of Pipe Walls in Nuclear Power Plants."
6 Exhibit 47 is NRC Generic Letter 89-08 7
entitled "Erosion Corrosion Induced Pipe Wall 8
Thinning."
9 Exhibit 48 is ASME Code Section 11, 10 article
- IWE, In-Service Inspection,
- Repair, and 11 Replacement of Class MC Pressure Retaining Components.
12 Exhibit 49 is API Standard 653, dated 13 January 1992, tank inspection, repair, alteration, and 14 reconstruction, selections discussing in-service 15 inspection of tanks.
16 Exhibit 50 is OCNGS work order number 17 R2091019, inspect poly bottles for presence of water, 18 8/25/2006 inspection results.
19 Exhibit 51 --
20 MR.
HALL:
Ms. Wolf is wondering where the 21 date on the documents are, Mr.
Silverman?
22 MR.
SILVERMAN:
I believe it's on the 23 second page of the document.
24 MS.
WOLF:
Got it.
25 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Are you ready, Ms.
Wolf?
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2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Take your time.
MS. WOLF:
Are you on Exhibit 51?
MR.
SILVERMAN:
Yes.
And you'll find the date, I believe, in the next several documents on the second page.
They're all very similar work orders.
Let me know if you don't see them.
- 51.
OCNGS work order number R2091083, inspect poly bottles for presence of water, 11/25/2006 inspection results.
Exhibit 52, OCNGS work order number
- R2095404, 2/13/2007
- R2099351, 5/22/2007
- R2104033, 8/28/2007
- R2088495, inspect poly bottles for presence of water, inspection results.
Exhibit 53, OCNGS work order number inspect poly bottles for presence of water, inspection results.
Exhibit 54, OCNGS work order number inspect poly bottles for presence of water, inspection results.
Exhibit 55, OCNGS work order number inspect poly bottles for presence of water, 12 RFO daily inspection results.
MS.
WOLF:
You are doing Exhibit 55?
MR.
SILVERMAN:
55.
MS.
WOLF:
What I have for Exhibit 55 says leakage monitoring torus sandbags in RX stream?
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(Pause.)
2 It doesn't match up with your exhibit 3
list.
4 (Pause.)
5 MR.
SILVERMAN:
If you don't mind, Ms.
6
- Wolf, I'm going to have Mr.
Kyler look at it.
We 7
think it's the same document.
We may not have 8
described it the same way in my list here.
9 (Pause.)
10 MS.
WOLF:
56.
11 MR.
SILVERMAN:
- 56.
Exhibit 56, OCNGS 12 work order number
- R2088493, camera inspection of 13 reactor cavity drain line 12 RFO inspection results.
14 Exhibit 57, R.H.
Hausler, et al.,
paper 15
- NACE, N-A-C-E,
- paper, 1996 entitled "Corrosion 16 Management in the Arun Oil Field."
A-R-U-N.
17 Exhibit 58, R.H.
- Hausler, et al.,
NACE 18 paper
- 1999, entitled "Development of a
Corrosion 19 Inhibition Model 1 Laboratory Studies."
20 Exhibit 59, R.H.
Hausler, et al.,
NACE 21 paper
- 1999, entitled "Development of a
Corrosion 22 Inhibition Model Roman 2 Verification of Model by 23 Continuous Corrosion Rate Measurements Under Flowing 24 Conditions With a Novel Down Hole Tool."
25 Exhibit 60, L. Bertolini, B-E-R-T-O-L-I-N-NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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'199 1
I, et al.,
paper entitled "Corrosion of Steel and 2
Concrete Prevention, Diagnosis, Repair",
Wiley/VCH.,
3 Weinheim, W-E-I-N-H-E-I-M,
- Germany, 2004, selections 4
describing corrosion rates in concrete.
5
- Last, but not
- least, Exhibit 61, NRC 6
Generic Aging Lessons Learned GALL Report, Volume 2, 7
Rev.
1 at Roman 2, 8.1 through 5, portions discussing 8
concrete containment structures.
9 Those are all of our exhibits, Your Honor.
10 JUDGE HAWKENS:
Let me know when you're 11 ready for the next group.
12 The Applicant AmerGen has submitted 13 Exhibits A through D, and Exhibits 1 through 61.
The 14 NRC staff and Citizens previously have had an 15 opportunity to review that material.
16 Does the staff have any objection to 17 receiving those exhibits into evidence?
18 MS.
BATY:
No, Your Honor, we don't.
19 JUDGE HAWKENS:
Thank you.
Mr.
- Webster, 20 do Citizens have any objection to receiving those 21 exhibits into evidence?
22 MR.
WEBSTER:
No, Your Honor, we don't.
23 JUDGE HAWKENS:
Thank you.
24 (Whereupon, the above-referred 25 to documents were marked as NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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Applicant's Exhibits A-D and 1-2 61 and were received in 3
evidence.)
4 Mr. Webster, when Ms.
Wolf is receive the 5
next batch of marked exhibits, we can proceed with 6
you, if Mr.
Kamps feels comfortable with the process?
7 He's shaking his head in the affirmative 8
that he's ready to go.
9 MR.
WEBSTER:
That's fine.
I should warn 10 you there are going to be a couple of corrections on 11 the way, since we had a few computer glitches which I 12 would ask Mr.
Kamps if he can hand correct.
Would 13 that be appropriate?
14 JUDGE HAWKENS:
You broke up on the last 15 sentence.
Can you repeat that, Mr. Webster, please?
16 MR.
WEBSTER:
I'm going to ask Mr.
Kamps 17 if that's acceptable to the Board to make some very 18 small changes to a
couple of the exhibit list.
19 There's a couple of things which I think need to be 20 changed slightly, so I'm going to ask Mr.
Kamps if he 21 can make those changes to the exhibits before we 22 actually submit them formally.
Is that appropriate 23 for the Board?
24 JUDGE HAWKENS:
We'll deal with it as it 25 unfolds.
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MR.
WEBSTER:
Okay.
2 JUDGE HAWKENS:
Before Mr.
Kamps delivers 3
it to Ms.
- Wolf, Mr.
- Webster, I want to confirm that 4
you have expunged the material from the exhibits 5
consistent with the Board's order?
6 MR.
WEBSTER:
I believe we have.
We have 7
made our best efforts to do that.
And I think we 8
have.
There are a couple of duplicates and I think we 9
managed to catch those duplicates, so yes, I believe 10 we have.
11 JUDGE HAWKENS:
That will be fine.
We're 12 concerned primarily just to make sure the offending 13 material identified in our order that was directed to 14 be removed was, in fact, removed and it sounds like 15 you have complied with that order.
16 MR.
WEBSTER:
We have done our absolute 17 best to comply with the order, Judge.
18 JUDGE HAWKENS:
Good.
Thank you.
19 MR.
WEBSTER:
May I begin?
20 JUDGE HAWKENS:
Not yet, Mr. Webster.
Ms.
21 Wolf has asked if the other stacks of exhibits from 22 AmerGen be submitted.
23 (Pause.)
24 If you can stand by, Mr.
- Webster, I'll 25 tell you when we're ready.
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MR.
WEBSTER:
Okay, thank you.
2 (Pause.)
3 MS.
BATY:
Judge Hawkens, if there are 4
going to be modifications, could we have a chance to 5
see those?
6 JUDGE HAWKENS:
- Yes, Mr. Webster, did you 7
hear Ms.
Baty's request?
8 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Yes, we have copies for the 9
other parties, and yes, we do intend to make the 10 changes on all the copies prior to handing them over, 11 or the parties may, if they wish, have the copy in 12 advance and have the changes as we go along.
13 There aren't very many.
I don't want to 14 make a big fuss about it.
15 JUDGE HAWKENS:
I understand.
Ms.
- Baty, 16 do you have a preference?
Do you want to make them as 17 he identifies them or would you prefer to receive them 18 after they've been made?
19 MS.
BATY:
We would prefer to receive them 20 and make them ourselves.
21 JUDGE HAWKENS:
Very well.
Mr.
Kamps do 22 you want to provide the exhibits, as well as the 23 parties?
24 (Pause.)
25 MR.
WEBSTER:
My apologies.
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exhibit list which forms the first part of the exhibit 2
is missing a stamp.
I apologize for that.
3 JUDGE HAWKENS:
We're taking one moment, 4
Mr.
- Webster, while Ms.
Wolf gets the materials 5
organized.
6 MR. WEBSTER:
I believe the copies for the 7
Board are tabbed in two binders and then the other 8
copies are in complete stacks.
9 (Pause.)
10 JUDGE HAWKENS:
Mr. Webster and Mr. Kamps, 11 we are ready to proceed, so if you would like Mr.
12 Silverman just did, identify each item by its number 13 or letter with a brief description of the item as 14 well.
15 MR. WEBSTER:
Okay.
Similarly to AmerGen, 16 the Citizens have the exhibits organized both by --
17 first by letter and then by number.
18 The letter corresponds to Exhibit A, is an 19 exhibit list and then a number of numbered exhibits.
20 Exhibit B
is the pre-filed direct 21 testimony of Dr.
Hausler with some number of 22 attachments.
23 Exhibit C
is the pre-filed rebuttal 24 testimony of Dr. Hausler, again with an attachment.
25 Exhibit Cl is the surrebuttal of Dr.
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Hausler, again with an attachment.
2 Exhibit D are qualification documents 3
relating to Dr. Hausler.
4 Returning to the numbered exhibits of 5
Exhibit A,
Exhibit 1
is GPU nuclear drywell sheet 6
plate thickness reduction, dated January 21, 1995.
7 MS.
BATY:
Is there a correction to that 8
document?
9 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Yes, I believe there is.
10 That document appears to be dated for the final 11 approval --
oh.
I see there are two dates appearing 12 on the document.
We have taken the date placed on the 13 bottom of the document on every page, but there are 14 other dates on the approval sheet.
And so I'm not 15 sure which dates we should use actually.
16 MS.
BATY:
Would AmerGen be able to 17 provide a better idea of which date is the appropriate 18 date?
19 MR.
SILVERMAN:
The document I'm looking 20 at and Mr. Webster can confirm, this is Mr. Silverman, 21 the last date on this document is 8/2/95, it looks 22 like.
And maybe a better way to identify and confirm 23 that we all have the same document is we look at the 24 OCLR number on the bottom.
25 Mr. Webster?
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MR. WEBSTER:
This is the cover sheet, the 2
approval sheet on the document is OCLR 1306.
3 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Yes.
4 MR.
WEBSTER:
We have excerpted the 5
document and the OCLR numbers of the excerpt is 1345 6
through 1363.
7 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Those are the correct --
8 those are consistent with our numbers.
9 MS.
BATY:
Do you mean January or July?
10 MR.
WEBSTER:
July.
11 MS.
WOLF:
If you look at the bottom of 12 the pages it says July 21, 1995.
13 MR.
WEBSTER:
That's what it says.
You 14
- know, this is a
document we received in document 15 disclosure.
I'm not familiar with the way the 16 licensee has written the data on the document.
17 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Mr. Webster, I think the 18 only confusion we had was that you said January and 19 perhaps you meant July.
20 MR.
WEBSTER:
Actually it is July 21, 21 1995.
22 JUDGE HAWKENS:
Thank you, Mr.
Webster.
23 If there are no other comments, you can proceed.
24 MR.
WEBSTER:
Exhibit 2
is a
drawing 25 entitled partial cross-section of drywell and torus.
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Exhibit 3
is a
memorandum from Peter 2
Tamburro regarding unclear documentation which is 3
dated March
- well, it looks like it was created 4
March 3, 2006.
5 Exhibit 4 is deliberately omitted.
There 6
should be --
7 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Mr.
- Webster, I'm sorry, 8
this is Mr.
Silverman.
Just to be clear, we're 9
looking at the same document.
It says origination 10 date March 3rd.
Is the title AR-00461639-report?
11 MR.
WEBSTER:
It is.
12 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Thank you.
13 MS.
BATY:
Is there a correction on the 14 date?
On the exhibit list it says March 30th.
15 What's the date of the document?
16 MR.
WEBSTER:
The date of the document, 17 the origination date of the document is actually March 18 3rd.
19 MS.
BATY:
Okay.
That's a correction just 20 to the exhibit.
21 MR.
WEBSTER:
The correction to the date.
22 It should be dated March 3rd.
23 Exhibit 4 --
24 MS.
BATY:
Richard, can you hold on for 25 one moment?
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(Pause.)
2 JUDGE HAWKENS:
You can proceed, Mr.
3 Webster, please.
4 MR.
WEBSTER:
Exhibit 4 was going to be an 5
AmerGen calculation.
- However, that calculation was 6
submitted by AmerGen as Exhibit 18.
We therefore 7
deliberately omitted this exhibit from our package in 8
order to avoid duplication of exhibits.
9 Exhibit 5 again has been submitted by 10 AmerGen as Applicant Exhibit 20.
11
'Exhibit 6
is an affidavit from Peter 12 Tamburro, dated March 26, 2007.
13 Exhibit 7
is an AmerGen email document 14 responding to an NRC request regarding audit question 15 numbers AMP 141210 --
16 JUDGE HAWKENS:
One moment,
- please, Mr.
17 Webster.
18 (Pause.)
19 MS.
WOLF:
Richard?
20 MR.
WEBSTER:
Yes.
21 MS.
WOLF:
Just to go back, I'm sorry, you 22 said Exhibit and I don't know if it's just a typo, but 23 your Exhibit 5 that you say that was AmerGen Exhibit 24 20?
25 MR.
WEBSTER:
That's what I have here.
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Let me check that.
2 MS.
WOLF:
- Okay, you have it dated 3
December 12th.
AmerGen has it dated December 15th.
4 MR.
WEBSTER:
Ms. Wolf, I can't hear you, 5
I'm sorry.
6 MS.
WOLF:
One second.
7 (Pause.)
8 MS.
WOLF:
You have it dated December 9
12th, Exhibit 5.
AmerGen has it dated December 15th.
10 Is that just a typo on your part to the exhibit list?
11 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Yes, I think that's a typo 12 on our part.
My apologies.
13 MS.
WOLF:
Okay.
Okay, you can continue.
14 MR.
WEBSTER:
Picking up with Exhibit 7, 15 that's an AmerGen response to an NRC information 16 request regarding audit question numbers AMP 141, 210, 17 356, dated April 5, 2006.
18 Exhibit 8 has once again been deliberately 19 omitted because it was submitted by AmerGen as 20 Applicant Exhibit 19.
21 Exhibit 9
is a report from Structural 22 Integrity Associates, Incorporated entitled 23 "Statistical Analysis of Oyster Creek Drywell 24 Thickness Data," dated January 4, 2007.
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NRC information request regarding audit the question 2
numbers ANP 357,
- 356, and 210.
3 I have two dates on the list 4
MR.
SILVERMAN:
Mr.
- Webster, we're not 5
sure that our exhibit matches up with yours, your 6
Exhibit 10.
7 MS.
BATY:
The staff agrees.
We're 8
looking through our exhibit.
It doesn't match.
9 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Well, I see.
Let me see.
10 I think there's a compilation of emails here.
The 11 first email is an email from John Hufnagel to Donnie 12 Ashley, which attaches a number of PDFs, which are not 13 submitted.
It shows on the next couple of pages, an 14 NRC information request regarding ANP 357.
Then there 15 is an information request regarding ANP 356.
There is 16 an information request regarding ANP 210.
17 MS.
WOLF:
I think the email is inaccurate 18 and I think that the document is accurate.
I mean, 19 when you go past the first
- page, it is ANP 357,
- 356, 20 and 210.
21 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Well, I think the documents 22 that, what we have here is what we got from AmerGen, 23 which is an email with the documents attached, and 24 we've submitted the cover email and the relevant 25 documents which were attached.
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MR.
KUYLER:
This is Mr.
Kuyler.
The 2
Applicant agrees that-these are accurate descriptions 3
of these documents, or of this exhibit.
4 MR.
WEBSTER:
Is the staff similarly in
.5 agreement?
6 MS.
BATY:
The description that you 7
provided is accurate.
It corresponds with what we 8
have in hard copy here.
9 MR.
WEBSTER:
May I proceed, then?
10 JUDGE HAWKENS:
Please continue.
11 MR.
WEBSTER:
Exhibit 11 is an email from 12 Peter Tamburro to Ahmed, I
am probably going to 13 butcher this name, Ouaou, dated June 6, actually it 14 looks like it is dated June 8th, 2006.
There should 15 be a correction there.
16 Do we all agree that the email is actually 17 dated June 8, 2006?
18 MS.
BATY:
The staff agrees.
19 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Applicant agrees.
20 MR.
WEBSTER:
I think the time is also 21 incorrect there, so let's delete that time where it 22 says 14:03 EST.
I think we should delete that.
23 MS.
WOLF:
You can go on to 12.
24 MR.
WEBSTER:
Exhibit 12 is a memorandum 25 from Dr. Rudolph Hausler, dated April 25th, 2007.
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211 1
is identical to attachment 2 of Dr. Hausler's initial 2
testimony which is included in Exhibit B.
3 Exhibit. 13 is a memorandum from Dr. Rudolf 4
Hausler, dated July 19, 2007 and it is identical to 5
attachment 3 of Dr. Hausler's initial testimony.
6 MS.
WOLF:
Do you mean July 18th?
Your 7
exhibit lists the wrong date.
8 MR.
WEBSTER:
I do mean July 18th.
9 Exhibit 14 is a
single page from an 10 AmerGen presentation to the ACRS entitled "Bay 5
11 Before Shell Coating."
12 Exhibit 15 is an excerpted transcript of 13 the ACRS meeting on January 18, 2007.
14 Exhibit 16 is an excerpted transcript from 15 the ACRS meeting dated October 3, 2006.
16 Exhibit 17 is an email from Stephen 17 Hutchins from John Hufnagel, dated September 18, 2006 18 with an attachment entitled White Paper.
I think it 19 is DW Dry Well White Paper.
20 Exhibit 18 is an affidavit to Jon Cavallo, 21 dated March 26, 2007.
22 Exhibit 19 is an Action Request Form to 23 determine the proper sealant for drywell sand bed 24 floor voids, dated October 23, 2006.
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of the NRC to somebody called Richard Webster, dated 2
November 9, 2006.
3 MS.
BATY:
Mr. Webster, could you stop for 4
one moment?
We had a question about the date on 5
Exhibit 19, what the proper date is for that?
6 MR.
WEBSTER:
The proper date on Exhibit 7
19.
8 MS.
BATY:
It lists several dates.
9 October 23rd and October 25th both.
10 MR.
WEBSTER:
I think the reference we 11 can agree whichever date you would prefer.
12 MS.
BATY:
Does AmerGen have an opinion on 13 what the proper date is for that document?
14 MR.
SILVERMAN:
No, I think it is fine to 15 just clearly identify it.
Perhaps the parties could 16 agree that up in the right-hand corner, the status 17 date is October 23, 2006.
The last update date is 18 October 25,
- 2006, and the print date is October 25, 19 2006.
So I guess the document was printed October 20 25th.
21 MR.
WEBSTER:
That's correct.
You know, 22 I'm happy to agree all of those dates.
23 MS.
WOLF:
Richard, do you want to change 24 your exhibit list then to reflect October 25th instead 25 of October 23rd?
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MR.
WEBSTER:
- Well, I mean I don't think, 2
if you look at the exhibit, all of the text has 23rd, 3
October 2006 next to it.
So it appears in the text 4
that it was created on October 23, 2006.
5 MS.
BATY:
Looking at page seven, it looks 6
like some of the data is from the 24th.
So I guess, 7
or the 25th.
Staff's preference would be to use the 8
printed date.
9 MR.
WEBSTER:
Okay.
10 MS.
BATY:
Of October 25th.
11 MR.
WEBSTER:
So if everybody would prefer 12 the printed date, I would be very happy to use the 13 printed date.
So let's correct that to October 25, 14 2006.
15 MS.
BATY:
Thank you, Mr.
Webster.
16 MR.
WEBSTER:
You're very welcome.
17 MS.
WOLF:
You can move on to Exhibit 20.
18 MR.
WEBSTER:
Exhibit 20, I
think I
19 already read the description.
20 Exhibit 21 is a letter from J.C. Devine of 21 GPU Nuclear to the NRC dated December 5, 1990.
And 22 there is an attachment to that document, attachment 23 three, which is a detailed summary addressing water 24 intrusion and leakage effects related to the Oyster 25 Creek Dry Well.
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Exhibit 22 is a document from GPU Nuclear 2
entitled Clearing of the Oyster Creek Drywell Sandbed 3
Drains, dated February 15, 1999.
4
- Again, I see two dates on this document.
5 The date we've referenced is the date given by the 6
originator's signature.
I see there is another date, 7
the approval signature date, which is March the 3rd, 8
1989.
Citizens has no strong preference on how to 9
reference this document.
10 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Applicant would prefer to 11 reference this document as March 3, 1989.
12 MR.
WEBSTER:
All right.
13 JUDGE HAWKENS:
Staff have any objection 14 to March 3, 1989?
15 MS.
BATY:
No, Your Honor.
16 JUDGE HAWKENS:
Thank you.
Please correct 17 it to March 3rd, Mr. Webster.
18 MR.
WEBSTER:
So that's corrected Exhibit 19
- 22.
The Exhibit A, Exhibit List corrected to March 3, 20 1989.
21 Exhibit 23 is a single page disclosed by 22 AmerGen related to drywell
- leakage, perhaps best 23 identified by OCLR number, which is OCLR 13354.
24 Exhibit 24 is a
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February 1, 2007.
2 Exhibit 25 is a letter from the NRC to Mr.
3 Christopher Crane dated January
- 17th, 2007.
It 4
attaches an inspection report.
5 Exhibit 26 is an email from Stephen 6
Dunsmuir to Howie Ray, among others, dated October 22, 7
2006.
8 Exhibit 27 is an email from Tom Quintenz 9
to Kevin Muggleston and others, dated February 1,
10 2006.
11 Exhibit
- 28. is a
GPU Nuclear document 12 entitled Evaluation of February 1990 Drywell UT 13 Examination Data, dated, see, again, we have dated it 14 from the originator's signature, March 8, 1990.
There 15 is an approval signature which is April 18, 1990.
16
- Again, we have no strong feeling on which date to 17 identify this document.
If the Applicant has a
18 preference?
19 MR.
KUYLER:
April 18, 1990 would be the 20 Applicant's preference.
21 JUDGE HAWKENS:
NRC staff?
22 MS.
BATY:
No objection.
23 JUDGE HAWKENS:
It is corrected to April 24 18th, Mr. Webster.
25 MR.
WEBSTER:
Okay.
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affidavit from Barry Gordon, dated March 26, 2007.
2 Exhibit 30 is a letter from Jill Lipoti of 3
the State of New Jersey to the NRC regarding 4
attaching a report from an expert regarding interior 5
corrosion of the drywell.
6 Exhibit 31 has been deliberately omitted 7
because the relevant excerpts have been submitted by 8
AmerGen as Exhibit 23.
9 MS.
WOLF:
I'm sorry, Richard, for Exhibit 10 31 and maybe you just accidentally dropped a one, but 11 it could be a
different calculation.
AmerGen's 12 Exhibit 23 is the 011 calc and you have the last digit 13 as 01.
Is that just a typo?
Did you mean 011?
14 MR.
WEBSTER:
Let me just have a look.
15 (Pause.)
16 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Yes, that's right.
It 17 should be 011.
18 MS.
WOLF:
Okay.
19 MR.
WEBSTER:
The description of Citizens 20 Exhibit 31 is amended to be calculation 21 C13021875300011.
22 Exhibit 32 --
23 MS.
WOLF:
I'm just going to stop you 24 because your Exhibit 32 which is Applicant Exhibit 17, 25 you have the wrong -- also, you have it as revision 0.
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My bad eyes, I
shouldn't have stopped you.
Never 2
mind.
Sorry about that.
3 MR.
WEBSTER:
Let me just check.
Citizens 4
Exhibit 32 5
JUDGE HAWKENS:
One second, please, Mr.
6 Webster.
7 MS.
BATY:
The staff has a
question.
8 We're looking at what was the --
Exhibit 31, what 9
was the AmerGen exhibit number that it was equivalent 10 to?
11 MR.
WEBSTER:
AmerGen Exhibit 23.
12 MS.
BATY:
Twenty-three.
Okay, we missed 13 that.
14 And number 32 was equivalent to AmerGen 15 Exhibit 16 MR.
WEBSTER:
Number 32 is equivalent to 17 AmerGen Exhibit 17.
18 MS.
BATY:
Okay.
Thank you, Mr. Webster.
19 MR.
WEBSTER:
And then 33 is equivalent to 20 AmerGen Exhibit 16, so it's therefore deliberately 21 omitted.
22 No. 34 is an ACRS information packet which 23 again is deliberately omitted.
It was submitted as 24 Applicant Exhibit 21.
25 Exhibit 35 --
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MS.
BATY:
Just a moment, the date for the 2
ACRS packet of 34 is December 2006 and for 21 of 3
AmerGen it says January 18th.
4 MR.
KUYLER:
The Applicant's ACRS 5
submittal is Applicant's Exhibit 3.
6 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Yes, my apologies.
That's
- 7.
incorrect.
8 The ACRS submittal indeed is Applicant 9
Exhibit 3, so my apologies.
10 Exhibit 34 has been deliberately omitted 11 because it is equivalent to Applicant Exhibit 3.
12 There is an error there in our production.
So Exhibit 13 21 on the sheet which says deliberately omitted should 14 be changed to Exhibit 3.
15 Exhibit 35 is a
- letter, is an excerpted 16 letter from AmerGen to the NRC, dated December 3,
17 2006.
18 Exhibit 36 --
I see a problem with the 19 description of Exhibit 36.
Exhibit 36 contains the 20 email from Caroline Schlaserman of MPR Associations to 21 Howie Ray, dated November 2, 2006 which is listed on 22 our exhibit list, but I think it's probably better 23 described as an email from Barry Gordon to Harry Ray, 24 among others, dated November 2, 2006.
25 (Pause.)
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That's an email string which includes the 2
email which was have listed on the exhibit list.
3 (Pause.)
4 Exhibit 37 is a statement of facts --
5 MS.
BATY:
Just a moment.
The time for 6
Exhibit Number 36, the time on the e-mail, is 7
1:52 p.m.,
and the list says 12:09 EST.
8 MR.
WEBSTER:
Yes.
The --
9 MS.
BATY:
Do you want to just 10 MR.
WEBSTER:
-- description given in the 11 exhibit list relates to the e-mail in the string there 12 from Caroline Schlaseman.
We agree it is probably 13 better described in the way I described it orally.
14 today.
15 MS.
BATY:
Without the date.
I
- mean, 16 without -- yes, without the time stamp, because if you 17 were going to describe it as from Barry Gordon to 18 Howie Ray, that e-mail was at 1:52.
19 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Well, that's correct, yes.
20 MS.
BATY:
Should we update that, or just 21 drop time?
22 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Well, I
think we should 23 change the description perhaps --
let me go back over 24 the description.
I suggest we --
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Ray,dated November 2, 2006, containing or forwarding 2
or --
let me just say containing e-mail from Caroline 3
Schlaseman, NPR Associates, to Howie Ray, you know, in 4
the same way that we've listed on our exhibit, list.
5 Would that be acceptable?
6 MS.
BATY:
Yes.
- Yes, that's fine.
7 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
- AmerGen, is that 8
acceptable to you as well?
9 MR.
SILVERMAN:
It is.
10 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
Mr.
11
- Webster, I
trust you're keeping close track of all 12 these administrative corrections, because no later 13 than Monday morning, before we proceed, I'd like you 14 to provide all the parties, as well as the Board and 15 SECY, with clean, corrected replacements.
16 MR.
WEBSTER:
Oh, yes.
Indeed so.
That 17 will be fine, Judge.
Thank you.
18 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
19 MS.
WOLF:
And just
- also, when you do 20 that, if you could provide a new sheet for Citizens 21 Exhibit 34.
22 MR.
WEBSTER:
Yes.
23 MS.
WOLF:
Okay.
Thank you.
I think you 24 can go on to 37.
25 MR.
WEBSTER:
Okay.
Exhibit 37 is a
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statement of facts, which is identical to Attachment 5 2
of Dr. Hausler's initial testimony.
Exhibit 38 is a
3 memorandum from Dr. Hausler dated August. 16, 2007, and 4
titled "Response to the Questions About Statistics."
5 Exhibit 39 is a
memorandum from Dr.
6 Hausler entitled "Further Discussion of the Nature of 7
the Corroded Surfaces and the Residual Wall Thickness, 8
Thicknesses of the Oyster Creek Drywell,"
dated 9
August 16, 2007.
Exhibit 40 is an e-mail.
10 I
- see, again, we have a similar issue 11 here.
The substantive e-mail is the one described in 12 our exhibit list.
I don't know if the parties have a 13 preference for listing these as the final e-mail.
Are 14 the parties happy with the listing as provided?
15 MR.
KUYLER:
The Applicant has no 16 preference.
The listing, as provided, is fine.
17 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Is the NRC Staff 18 satisfied with the listing?
19 MS.
BATY:
Yes.
20 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
You may 21 continue, Mr. Webster.
22 MR.
WEBSTER:
Okay.
So it's an e-mail 23 from William Russell to Frederick Polaski regarding 24 Challenge Board Number 1 comments, dated November 30, 25 2006.
Oh,
- indeed, the description then
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"Attached to e-mail from John Hufnagel to Ahmed Ouaou 2
dated November 30, 2006."
3 Exhibit 41 is a
GPU Nuclear document 4
entitled
- well, it's on the top it's entitled 5
"Technical Functions:
Safety/Environmental 6
Determination and 50.59 Review,"
dated January 5,
7 1993.
Excerpts of that document are provided.
8 Exhibit 42 is an e-mail from Peter 9
Tamburro to Ahmed Ouaou, cc'd to others -- oh, it's 10 yes, cc'd to others, regarding the surface area of the 11 drywell, dated April 3, 2006.
Exhibit 43 is an e-mail 12 from John O'Rourke --
sorry, it's an e-mail --
ah, I
13 see.
It's another one of these e-mails.
14 There's a --
the substantive e-mail is as 15 provided in the list, which is an e-mail from John 16 O'Rourke --
hang on.
Ah, yes, here we are.
Sorry.
17 From John O'Rourke to Michael Gallagher dated 18 October 10, 2006, and then is attached to the e-mail 19 from John Hufnagel to John O'Rourke on the same date.
20 Exhibit 44 is a
memorandum a
GPU 21 Nuclear memorandum from KL Whitmore regarding 22 inspection of the drywell sandbed region, January 28, 23 1993.
Exhibit 45 is AmerGen Technical Evaluation 24 3305922727, dated April 20, 2007.
I'm just verifying 25 that date.
That's correct.
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Exhibit 46, this e-mail from John O'Rourke 2
to Marcos Herrera, cc'd to others, regarding Oyster 3
Creek Drywell Thicknesses.
4 MS.
WOLF:
I'm sorry, Richard.
Exhibit 5
45, can you just point me where the date is on this?
6 MR.
WEBSTER:
45
- yes, I
just had to 7
check that myself.
It's actually on the last 8
there's a page before the figures, which is page 7 of 9
12.
i0 MS.
WOLF:
Okay.
Got it.
April 20th.
11 Sorry, you can continue.
12 MR.
WEBSTER:
Okay.
So where was I?
46, 13
- yes, is an e-mail from John O'Rourke to Marcos 14
- Herrera, attaching
Subject:
Oyster Creek Drywell 15 Thickness, to be used for base case analysis, and they 16 attach a
document entitled "Oyster Creek Drywell 17 Thickness Reanalysis"
- well, it's entitled "Oyster 18 Creek Drywell Reanalysis:
Drywell Thicknesses for 19 Base Case."
20 46 oh, sorry, Exhibit 47 is an Issue 21 Report Number 0557180, and the documented is headed 22 "Exelon Nuclear Issue Statement of Confirmation."
23 Exhibit 48 is an e-mail from Tom Quintenz to John 24 O'Rourke attaching the notes regarding a
TOP 25 inspection.
The e-mail is dated October 10, 2006.
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The date of the TOP inspection is unclear.
The sheet 2
is headed November 5, 1996, the attached sheet.
3 MS.
BATY:
Staff has a question about 4
Exhibit 47 and the title.
The issue number is 5
correct, but.-it looks like the title on the document 6
says "Commitments Made for Generic Letter 87-05 Are 7
Not in the RA Database."
8 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Well, I agree with you the 9
subject of the document says that, yes.
10 MS.
BATY:
So what about the description 11 of the document in the exhibit list, is that --
12 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Well, on the second box 13 down, the description -- the document reflects exactly 14 what's in the list.
15 MS.
BATY:
Okay.
I see that.
Thank you.
16 Thank you.
17 MR.
WEBSTER:
Shall I move forward from 18 the TOP inspection?
19 MS.
BATY:
- Yes, that's fine.
Thank you.
20 MR.
WEBSTER:
The TOP inspection, again, 21 was Exhibit 48.
Exhibit 49 is let me find my page 22 here.
Exhibit 49 is a report from GPU Nuclear, 23 Material Non-Conformance Report, dated October 26, 24 1986.
25 MS.
WOLF:
I think --
and this could be NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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handwriting.
I think it's October 21st.
Maybe 2
AmerGen would be better equipped to.answer, but --
3 MR.
WEBSTER:
I think that could be 4
correct.
I will just have a look --
if there's any 5
other dates on this document.
6 MR.
KUYLER:
On the last page there are 7
notes dated October 27th.
October 27th looks --
8 MR.
WEBSTER:
Yes.
9 MR.
KUYLER:
like the correct date.
10 MR.
WEBSTER:
Let's just do it this way.
11 The OCLR numbers for this document are 15023 through 12 to 15025.
The date in the exhibit list is reflected, 13 as Mr.
Kuyler rightly points out, on the last page.
14 MS.
WOLF:
Okay.
That's fine.
15 MR.
WEBSTER:
Exhibit 50 is a memorandum 16 from --
is a GPU Nuclear memorandum from R. Miranda, 17 and the subject is 14R, Reactor Cavity Leak Detection 18 Effort.
It's dated February 1, 1993.
19 Exhibit 51 is a
single
- page, which 20 discusses curvature effects on the UT data.
Its OCLR 21 number is 26641.
Exhibit 52 is an e-mail from Tom 22 Quintenz to Ahmed Ouaou and John Hufnagel dated 23 September 20,
- 2006, and a
report AR-00547236.
24 Exhibit 53 is a letter from Dromerick of the NRC --
25 MS.
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repeat just what you last said, the description of 2
Exhibit 52?
We just missed it.
3 MR. WEBSTER:
I'm sorry.
Exhibit 52 is an 4
e-mail from Tom Quintenz to Ahmed Ouaou and John 5
Hufnagel dated September 20,
- 2006, and an AR report 6
numbered 00547236.
7 MS.
BATY:
Thank you.
8 MR.
WEBSTER:
Exhibit 53 is a letter from 9
Dromerick to Barton, Dromerick of the NRC to Barton of 10 GPU Nuclear, dated November 19, 1991.
Exhibit 54 is 11 another letter from Dromerick to Barton dated 12 September 2, 1993.
13 Exhibit 55 is a memorandum from Goutam 14 Bagchi --
or to --
hang on --
is a memorandum for --
15 for John Stolz.
Let me just correct the description.
16 It should read, "Memorandum from Goutam Bagchi for 17 John L.
Stolz, dated April 9, 1992," with an attached 18 Safety Evaluation Report with supporting analysis by 19 Brookhaven National Laboratory.
20 Exhibit 56 is a
letter from Dromerick to 21 Barton dated April 24, 1992.
Exhibit 57, a
letter 22 from Devine of GPU Nuclear to the NRC dated May 26, 23 1992.
Exhibit 58 is another letter from Dromerick to 24 Barton dated June 30, 1992.
Exhibit 59 has been 25 deliberately omitted, because it has been submitted by NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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227 1
AmerGen as Applicant-Exhibit 39.
2 Exhibit 60 has been excerpted, because we 3
have submitted the portions of the report, the 4
relevant portions of the report that the Staff is not 5
including in its exhibit --
in Staff Exhibit 6.
So we 6
have only included pages 77 to 85 of the Sandia --
the 7
report from Sandia National Laboratories regarding 8
drywell stability.
9 MS.
WOLF:
The Staff since we don't 10 have your exhibits yet, is that correct, is it going 11 to be --
it's Exhibit 6, the Sandia study?
12 MS.
BATY:
Yes.
Excerpts of the Sandia 13 study are Staff Exhibit 6.
14 MS.
WOLF:
Okay, great.
Thanks.
15 MR.
WEBSTER:
Exhibit 61 is a memorandum 16 from Rudolf
- Hausler, further discussion of the 17 external corrosion on the drywell shell in the sandbed 18 region, dated September 13, 2007.
That is identical 19 to Attachment 1 to Dr. Hausler's surrebuttal testimony 20 in Exhibit C-1.
21 Exhibit 62 is an excerpt from the ACRS 22 meeting held on September 6, 2001.
Exhibit 63 is an 23 AmerGen drawing entitled "Lower Drywell Sandbed 24 Region."
Exhibit 64 --
25 MS.
WOLF:
Hold on, Richard.
I don't have NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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Exhibits 64 and 65.
The last thing I have here is 2
Exhibit 63.
I don't --
let me make 3
MR.
WEBSTER:
I agree.
The copy --
the 4
hard copy I have here is missing Exhibits 64 and 65.
5 I will submit those urgently tomorrow.
Referring to 6
our pleadings, Exhibit 64 is a string of e-mails 7
ending in an e-mail from Barry Gordon to George Licina 8
dated October 24,
- 2006, which was originally 9
proprietary but we have redacted to be non-proprietary 10 in accordance with an agreement with AmerGen.
11 And Exhibit 65 is an e-mail from O'Rourke 12 to Herrera dated February 7,
- 2007, and, again, that 13 has been redacted to be non-proprietary.
14 MS.
BATY:
Mr.
- Webster, we're having 15 trouble finding --
did you submit --
did you prefile, 16 what is it, from 62 on?
64 and 65, did you prefile 17 those?
We're having --
18 MR.
WEBSTER:
We did prefile those.
They 19 were prefiled with Citizens testimony, surrebuttal 20 testimony, on September 14, 2007.
Can the Applicant 21 confirm that?
22 MR.
KUYLER:
Give us a second, Richard.
23 MR.
WEBSTER:
All right.
24 (Pause.)
25 My apologies to the Panel.
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229 I
these exhibits were prepared at a time when there was 2
a lot of intensive work to do, since we had to get 3
them ready a couple of days ahead of time.
- And, 4
obviously, a couple of things got lost in the shuffle 5
here.
We will make sure that they're corrected as 6
soon as possible.
7 MR.
KUYLER:
The Applicant can confirm 8
that in the electronic copies we received from you, 9
Mr.
- Webster, that the last exhibit was Exhibit 10 Number 62.
So we're missing 63 through 65.
11 MR.
WEBSTER:
Unfortunately, my.e-mail is 12 actually down right now.
I can't access that.
I am 13 trying the hard copy.
14 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Mr.
- Webster, if you 15 would stand by for a moment, Ms.
Wolf is going to 16 retrieve the materials she received and see if it's 17 included in that.
18 MS.
BATY:
Are copies of 64 and 65 in the 19 room somewhere?
I don't know if Mr.
Kamps has them.
20 He doesn't --
oh, okay.
21 (Pause.)
22 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Mr. Webster, Ms.
Wolf 23 retrieved her copy of your written submission, and 63 24 through 65 were included in that.
She is now sharing 25 that with the NRC Staff and AmerGen.
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MS.
YOUNG:
The question the Staff would 2
have, was that copy received on the 14th, the hard-3 bound copy?
Because what we received on the 14th we 4
believe was the electronic version filed by e-mail, 5
and it was not included, based on the representation 6
from Applicant.
7 MS.
WOLF:
I can't tell you for sure.
8 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Mr.
Webster, here is 9
what we're going to do, and, Staff, please make sure 10 I'm articulating this correctly.
Your records show 11 that you timely received exhibits through Number 62.
12 We're going to act upon those exhibits today.
13 Mr. Webster, I would ask you to coordinate 14 with the Staff and AmerGen prior to Monday and resolve 15 whether, in fact, those were previously submitted.
If 16 you determine they were properly, timely submitted, 17 please provide everybody with copies prior to the 18 start of the hearing on Monday along with the 19 replacement of your exhibit list that's corrected and 20 clean, and we will then take steps, if appropriate, to 21 enter those exhibits into evidence at that time.
22 MR.
WEBSTER:
Judge, may I ask, the hard 23 copies that AmerGen and the NRC received, which should 24 have been overnighted to them, can we confirm that 25 those hard copies do reflect those exhibits?
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CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
I'm going to let you
- 2.
work with the Staff on that.
That remains an 3
unresolved question that I'm not prepared to address 4
right now.
5 MR.
WEBSTER:
Okay.
6 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
For the time being, 7
Citizens have submitted Exhibits A through D and 8
Exhibits 1 through 62.
9 (Whereupon, the above-referred 10 to documents were marked as 11 Citizens Exhibits A through D 12 and Exhibits Numbers 1 through 13 62 for identification.)
14 Do the NRC Staff and AmerGen have any 15 objection to receiving those exhibits into evidence, 16 taking into account that the motions in limine, the 17 objections that you have already submitted, are 18 preserved for the record?
19 MS.
BATY:
No objection from the Staff.
20 MR.
SILVERMAN:
And no objection from the 21 Applicant, Your Honor.
22 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
citizens 23 Exhibits A through D and Exhibits 1 through 62 are 24 received into evidence.
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to documents, previously marked 2
as Citizens Exhibits A through 3
D and Exhibits Numbers 1
4 through 62 for identification, 5
were received into evidence.)
6 Ms.
Wolf is now receiving the additional 7
- copies, Mr.
- Webster, from Mr.
Kamps.
After she 8
receives them and puts them away, we'll proceed to the 9
NRC Staff's submissions.
10 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Judge
- Hawkens, Don 11 Silverman.
When you have a moment, I don't believe 12 you actually stated on the record that the Applicant's 13 exhibits were admitted into evidence.
I could be 14 wrong.
15 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
I believe I did, but 16 let me repeat myself --
17 MR.
SILVERMAN:
I may be wrong.
18 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
if I
didn't.
The 19 Applicant's AmerGen's Exhibits A through D and 20 Exhibits 1 through 61 are received into evidence.
21 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Thank you very much.
22 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Better to err on the 23 side of caution, I agree, Mr.
Silverman.
24 (Pause.)
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exhibits by number and letter and then provide a brief 2
description?
When you're ready.
3 MS.
WOLF:
- Richard, did you have any 4
errata?
5 MR.
WEBSTER:
Oh.
- Yes, I have one very 6
minor.
There was we submitted an errata which 7
corrected an exhibit problem.
And I haven't --
I have 8
basically used the final version of the exhibit, as 9
corrected by the errata.
We renumbered the rebuttal 10 testimony, I believe of Dr.
Hausler.
The exhibit 11 cover sheet reflects that the testimony has been 12 renumbered, but it has not been otherwise changed.
13 And with regard to Exhibit C-1, the 14 surrebuttal, there are a
couple of very minor 15 renumberings I think we should do.
On page 11 of the 16 surrebuttal testimony there's a
Question
- 27.
On 17 page 12, there's another Question 27, and I propose 18 that we renumber that second Question 27 Question 27A, 19 and then Answer 27A.
20 With regard to the next question, which is 21 Question 28 on page 12, there's then a
second 22 Question 28 on page 12.
I propose we renumber that 23 second Question 28 to
- 28A, and the corresponding 24 answer to 28A.
25 MS.
WOLF:
Okay.
That sounds fine.
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MR.
WEBSTER:
Thank you.
Thank you for 2
the reminder.
3 MS.
WOLF:
So you didn't have anything 4
more substantive that needed a separate errata sheet 5
for the Board, correct?
6 MR.
WEBSTER:
No, that's correct.
7 MS.
WOLF:
Okay.
8 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Would all the parties 9
please confirm that the statements provided by their 10 witnesses have, in fact, been signed and declared to 11 be truth or true and correct consistent with 12 Section 17.46 of Title 28?
13 MR.
SILVERMAN:
The Applicant will do 14 that, Your Honor.
Our statements have been signed and 15 declared in accordance with 28 U.S.
Code 17.46, 16 correct.
17 MS.
BATY:
The Staff's testimony is all 18 covered by an affidavit by affidavits, declares 19 under penalty of perjury that statements are all true 20 and correct, including the errata.
We have added --
21 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
22 MS.
BATY:
an affidavit.
23 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
- And, Mr.
- Webster, 24 likewise, you 25 MR.
WEBSTER:
That's correct.
- Likewise, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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our testimony has been signed and sworn in accordance 2
with the requirements of the Code.
3 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
All right.
Thank you.
4 MS.
WOLF:
I'm ready.
5 MS.
BATY:
Okay.
The Staff has --
first 6
exhibit, Staff Exhibit A, list of exhibits.
Exhibit B 7
is the NRC staff testimony of Hansraj Asher, Dr. James 8
- Davis, Dr.
Mark
- Hartzman, Timothy L.
O'Hara, 9
concerning drywell contention, dated -- original date 10 is July 20th, as corrected, through September 20, 11 2007.
12 Staff Exhibit C
is NRC Staff rebuttal 13 testimony of Hansraj G.
- Asher, Dr.
James Davis, Dr.
14 Hark Hartzman, Timothy L.
O'Hara, and Arthur D.
15 Salomon, in answer to Board's question dated August 17 16 originally dated August 17th with corrections 17 through September 20, 2007.
18 Staff Exhibit C-1, NRC Staff surrebuttal 19 of Hansraj G.
Asher --
20 MR.
WEBSTER:
Could I just ask a question 21 with regard to the corrections?
I see corrections 22 dated August 23rd here.
23 MS.
BATY:
This is a
supplement in 24 addition to the correction we filed with the party --
25 with the Board and the parties on August 23rd.
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have provided to your agent here and to the Applicant, 2
and the Board, as instructed by Ms.
- Wolf, copies of 3
our markup, and then clean copies provided.
4 MR.
WEBSTER:
Could you provide. us --
5 MS.
BATY: We'll overnight --
Mr. Webster, 6
we'll overnight you a copy of our errata.
7 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Well, could you provide a 8
description now?
9 MS.
BATY:
We have distributed hard 10 copies.
We do not have an electronic describe 11 them?
They're --
the changes are to correct grammar, 12 like you would do to a transcript of a deposition.
13 There were a number of errors, including a pagination 14 error with Mr. Salomon's professional qualifications.
15 MR.
WEBSTER:
Does the Staff represent 16 that these changes are not material to the meaning of 17 the testimony?
18 MS.
BATY:
Can you ask the question again, 19 Mr. Webster?
20 MR.
WEBSTER:
Are these changes material 21 to the meaning of the testimony?
22 MS.
BATY:
To the extent that they clarify 23 mistakes that Staff made, oversights, grammatical 24
- mistakes, then they are material.
25 MR. WEBSTER:
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word "material" there to mean going beyond merely a 2
grammatical mistake to actually change the meaning?
3 MS.
BATY:
- Well, grammatical mistakes 4
could --
5 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Ms.
- Baty, he's 6
wondering about substantive changes that will catch 7
him cold on Monday during the hearing.
He, 8
understandably, not having seen them, would not want 9
to agree to them being admitted into evidence.
I 10 assume you haven't made any substantive material 11 changes to these individuals' testimony.
12 MS.
BATY:
There is one change that we --
13 with --
the one change that we have made is a --
oh.
14 MR.
WEBSTER:
Can I
just clarify that?
15 I'm referring, in general, to all of the testimony, 16 not just the August 23rd, but also including the 17 July 20th and September 14th.
18 MS.
BATY:
Yes.
No, what I was about to 19 explain --
it's understood that it's this is in 20 addition to August 23rd, and I
was just going to 21 explain that specifically in the Staff's surrebuttal 22 testimony of September 14,
- 2007, Answer A48 an 23 opportunity to locate it.
Let me know when you --
24 MR. WEBSTER:
I'm looking at Answer A48 of 25 the surrebuttal testimony right now.
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MS.
BATY:
Okay.
The sentence beginning 2
at the --
the fifth
- line, it
- states, "GE invoked the 3
symmetry it originally stated, "GE invoked the 4
symmetry about the middle plane of a bay between two 5
vent lines to reduce the size of the analysis for 6
performing the reduced wall thickness calculations."
7 And you have that sentence before you?
8 MR.
WEBSTER:
I see that sentence, yes.
9 MS.
BATY:
Okay.
The Staff has --
Dr.
10 Hartzman reviewed his testimony and discovered an 11
- error, and he has in his description of the 12 symmetry that GE invoked, and so he has revised that 13 sentence as follows, "GE invoked the symmetry about 14 the center plane between two bays to reduce the size 15 of the analysis report forming the reduced wall 16 thickness calculations."
Is that clear?
17 MR.
WEBSTER:
So the word "middle" is 18 deleted and "center" is substituted?
19 MS.
BATY:
Yes, with "center."
20 MR.
WEBSTER:
The words "of a bay" are 21 deleted?
22 MS.
BATY:
Yes.
23 MR.
WEBSTER:
And the word "vent" is 24 deleted and substituted for "bays" or "bays" is 25 substituted for the word "vent"?
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MS.
BATY:
It's substituted bays" is 2
substituted for the words "vent line"
". vent" and 3
"lines."
"Vent lines" is deleted.
4 MR.
WEBSTER: -Okay.
5 MS.
BATY:
Okay.
Then, at the bottom of 6
the page, second-to-the-last line on that page there's 7
a sentence that begins, "It is not clear whether 8
Dr. Hausler understands that the analysis of a 36-9
-degree pie slice of the drywell shell applies to each 10 bay of the shell."
There is Dr.
Hartzman has a
- 11.
correction to that line as well.
The last line of the 12 page, the word "each" is replaced with "alternate,"
13 and an S is added to the word "bay."
And --
14 MR.
WEBSTER:
Alternate bays.
15 MS.
BATY:
- Bays, that's correct.
And the 16 same change is made later on in a
sentence as it 17 carries over to page
- 6.
The word "each" in that 18 sentence --
in that line is replaced with "alternate" 19 and an S added to the word "bays."
Is that clear?
20 MR.
WEBSTER:
Okay.
So with the exception 21 of those changes, which I agree are material, are 22 there any other material changes in the Staff's 23 errata, which is being submitted today I understand?
24 MS.
BATY:
There is one other, and made 25 throughout the Staff's testimony, initial
- rebuttal, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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and surrebuttal, and Staff has made a change to be 2
more precise about the applicability of the ASME, 3
American Society of Mechanical Engineers Code --
code 4
case, the N284, Section 3NE, Code Case 284.
The Staff
.5 has changed the words "required" and replaced it 6
generally with "specified" by the code case or 7
"provisions" of the code case.
8 This is to clarify that it
-- Oyster Creek 9
is not required to comply with the code case.
It is 10 part of their current licensing basis.
It's not 11 incorporated --
Section 3NE is not incorporated --
is 12 not a regulatory requirement under 50.55(a).
But 13 Oyster Creek has incorporated that code case in its 14 licensing basis through its use in the --
its FSAR.
15 And so it's a commitment.
16 MR.
WEBSTER:
Can I
- ask, have the 17 witnesses sworn to that change?
18 MS.
BATY:
Yes, they have.
19 MR.
WEBSTER:
And was the basis of their 20 of the change, legal advice provided to them by the 21 Commission --
by the Staff counsel?
22 MS.
BATY:
No.
It was the members of the 23 Staff, the experts, witnesses made that correction.
24 MR.
WEBSTER:
No, I understand they made 25 that correction.
But what --
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MS.
BATY:
On --
2 MR.
WEBSTER:
I think it's important --
3 I'd like to understand why they made that correction.
4 Is it not --
it doesn't sound like a miswording.
5 MS.
BATY:
It's a
clarification and 6
precision and perhaps and the use of the word 7
"required" in the everyday parlance as opposed to what 8
the legal meaning of that term in terms of NRC 9
regulations.
10 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you, Ms.
Baty.
11 Are there other changes which you want to bring to Mr.
12 Webster's attention?
13 MS.
BATY:
No, Your Honor.
14 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
All right.
Please 15 continue.
16 MS.
BATY:
Staff Exhibit D 17 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Let me interrupt you, 18 Ms.
Baty.
You're going to be overnight expressing 19 this to Mr.
Webster?
20 MS.
BATY:
- Yes, we will.
21 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
22 MS.
BATY:
Staff Exhibit D
is the 23 professional qualifications of the Staff witnesses.
24 This is this exhibit contains all of the statements 25 of professional qualifications that are also included NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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in Staff Exhibits B and C and C-I.
No, there are --
2 B
and C.
And it also includes the professional 3
qualifications of A.
Louis Lund and Kamal Manoly.
4 Staff Exhibit 1
is excerpts from NUREG 5
1875 Safety Evaluation Report.
6 MR.
WEBSTER:
Ms. Baty, can I just ask you 7
a question about Ms.
Lund and Mr.
Manoly?
For the 8
record, when were those qualifications submitted?
9 MS.
BATY:
The qualifications were 10 submitted on Tuesday after the decision was made by 11 management that in order to respond to the questions 12 the topics identified by the Board in their 13 September 12th order that --
directing the Staff to 14 bring individuals to the hearing who would be prepared 15 to address the topics in that order.
16 MR.
WEBSTER:
And so these are individuals 17 who have not provided any testimony whatsoever so far.
18 MS.
BATY:
That's correct.
They're here 19 to --
they will appear to address --
only address the 20 matter in the Board's order, and that would be the 21 reasonable assurance, and that would be the first 22 numbered topic area in the Board's September 12th 23 order.
24 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Mr.
- Webster, this is 25 Judge Hawkens.
We're going to discuss the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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appropriateness of them testifying after we get these 2
exhibits admitted into evidence.
But from the Board's 3
perspective, there is should not be a problem with 4
admitting this list of their professional 5
qualifications into evidence, because it does not 6
-involve any commitment to having them testify.
7 MR.
WEBSTER:
Okay.
Yes, on the --
can I 8
just say I haven't --
I assume that later on we'll 9
have a chance to object prior to these exhibits being 10 submitted into evidence.
11 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
I'm sorry?
Say that 12 again.
13 MR.
WEBSTER:
I'm assuming that at some 14 point there will be a moment for objection.
15 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
There will be.
We will 16 provide you with that opportunity.
17 MR.
WEBSTER:
Thank you.
Thank you, 18 Judge.
19 MS.
BATY:
Okay..
I will --
I was on Staff 20 Exhibit 1, the excerpts from NUREG-1875, Safety 21 Evaluation Report related to the license renewal 22 application of Oyster Creek Generating Station, dated 23 or published April 2007.
Pages included in this 24 exhibit are pages 1-1 to 1-18, pages 3 --
page 3-114 25 to page 3-143, page 3-163 to page 3-167, page 3-420 to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 244 page 3-430, page 4-41 to page 4-75, page 6-1, page A-I --
MR.
WEBSTER:
Ms.
- Baty, isn't page 5-3 through 5-11 also included?
MS.
BATY:
Per the Board's order, we have relocated --
we have removed those pages and placed them in Staff Exhibit 3I.
MR.
WEBSTER:
Ah.
Okay.
MS.
BATY:
The ACRS report.
MR-WEBSTER:
Thank you for that clarification.
MS.
BATY:
So page A-I, and A-18 to A-33, and A-40 to A-41.
Staff Exhibit 2 is ASME Code Section Roman Numeral 9
it's
- 11.
The Staff there's a
correction to the Staff's exhibit list.
There should be another --
it should have another "I."
MS.
WOLF:
It's 11 or 12?
Because you have 11.
MS.
BATY:
Oh, it's
- 11.
That's correct.
Sorry.
Subsection MS.
WOLF:
You're fine.
MS.
BATY:
Okay.
It's correct.
IWE excerpts, and it's from 1992.
Staff Exhibit 3 is the ACRS report to the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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245 1
Commission dated February 2
February 8',
2007.
2 Staff Exhibit 4, Exelon procedure, TQ-AA-122, Rev 3, 3
qualification and certification of non-destructive 4
(NDE) personnel.
It's 52 pages in length.
5 Staff Exhibit 5 is NRC inspect.ion report 6
05-000-29/2006007, dated September 21, 2006.
Staff 7
Exhibit 6
is SAND2007-0055, structural integrity 8
analysis of the degraded drywell containment at the 9
Oyster Creek Nuclear Generating
- Station, Sandia 10 report, pages 15 through 76 and 91 through 100, dated 11 January 2007.
12 Oh, excuse me, there's a correction.
It's 13 not page
- 15.
It's the beginning of the document 14 through page 76.
We'll have to --
the Staff will have 15 to correct it's Exhibit A
to reflect the 16 beginning of the report through page 76 is included.
17 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Ms.
Baty, you're done 18 describing 19 MS.
BATY:
- Yes, we are.
20 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
the exhibits?
The 21 Staff has submitted Exhibits A through D and Exhibits 22 1 through 6 for admission into evidence.
23 (Whereupon, the above-referred 24 to documents were marked as NRC 25 Staff Exhibits A through D and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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Exhibits Numbers 1
through 6
2 for identification.)
3 Do AmerGen or Citizens have any objection 4
to receiving those exhibits into evidence?
5 MR.
SILVERMAN:
No objection from AmerGen, 6
Your Honor.
7-MR.
WEBSTER:
From Citizens, Your Honor, 8
we believe that the errata --
some of the errata made 9
today are material.
We would, therefore, like the 10 chance to provide questions to the Board regarding 11 those errata in order to, you know --
provided that 12 chance is provided and we have a reasonable time to 13 prepare those questions --
14 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Your objection, Mr.
15
- Webster, is to certain of the errata which you are 16 going to be receiving overnight express from the 17
- Staff, is that correct?
18 MR.
WEBSTER:
That's correct.
Where the 19 errata make material changes, similarly to previously 20 when the Staff made material changes, we wold like the 21 opportunity to ask the witnesses about those material 22 changes.
23 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
You will have that 24 opportunity to raise any objections or advance 25 raise objections to that evidence on Monday after NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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you've seen it.
Until then, though, your objection is 2
overruled, and the NRC Staff's Exhibits A through D 3
and Exhibits 1 through 6 are received into evidence.
4 (Whereupon, the above-referred 5
to documents, previously marked 6
as NRC Staff Exhibits A through 7
D and Exhibits Numbers 1
8 through 6 for identification, 9
were received into evidence.)
10 MS.
BATY:
Your Honor, I
believe Mr.
11 Webster was asking -- also asked for an opportunity to 12 submit --
to propound questions or propose questions 13 for the Board to ask on the material changes to --
14 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
The Board --
yes, Mr.
15 Webster, I'm sorry if I misunderstood your question.
16 To the extent that you view changes in the errata to 17 be material changes that you think entitle you to ask 18 questions which you did not previously ask, you may 19 submit those questions to the Board.
And submit them 20 Monday morning.
21 MR.
WEBSTER:
Monday morning.
Thank you 22 very much, Judge.
23 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
We'll take a
few 24 moments while Ms. Wolf obtains the material, and then 25 turn to the qualification of the parties' witnesses to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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testify as experts.
2 NRC Staff, to the extent that there were 3
changes on your NRC Staff, are you with me?
4 MS.
BATY:
Yes.
5 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
To the extent there are 6
changes to be made to your exhibit list, would you 7
please submit them, provide parties to the Board and 8
to the parties before we start the hearing on Monday 9
morning?
10 MS.
BATY:
Yes.
11 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
12 MS.
BATY:
Thank you.
13 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
As the Board has 14 explained previously, it's necessary for the Board on 15 the record to recognize that witnesses are qualified 16 to testify as experts.
And for the moment, we are 17 going to put to one side Ms.
Lund and Mr.
- Manoly, 18 whose names and statements of qualifications were 19 provided on Tuesday, September 18th, by the NRC Staff.
20 We'll start with the NRC's proposed 21 experts.
This question is posed to AmerGen and 22 Citizens.
You've had the opportunity to review the 23 Statement of Professional Qualifications of their 24 proposed expert witnesses.
Do you have any objection 25 to receiving their prefiled written statements as NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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expert testimony?
2 MR.
SILVERMAN:
AmerGen has no such 3
objection.
4 MR.
WEBSTER:
Citizens has no objection.
5 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
Another 6
question directed to AmerGen and Citizens, do you have 7
any objection to them testifying orally as experts on 8
the panel topics identified by the Staff?
9 MR.
SILVERMAN:
No objection from AmerGen.
10 MR.
WEBSTER:
No objection from Citizens.
11 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
And to be 12 clear for the record, I'm going to identify the six 13 topics and the NRC witnesses, and please confirm that 14 my listing of the --
your witnesses is correct.
For 15 Topic 1, the drywell physical structure, history, and 16 commitments, Mr.
Ashar, Dr. Davis, Dr. Hartzman, and 17 Mr.
O'Hara.
For Topic 2,
acceptance criteria, Mr.
18
- Ashar, Dr.
- Davis, Dr.
- Hartzman, Mr.
O'Hara, Mr.
19 Salomon.
20 Topic 3, available margin, Mr. Ashar, Dr.
21
- Davis, Dr.
- Hartzman, Mr.
O'Hara, Mr.
Salomon.
22 Topic 4, sources of water, Mr. Ashar, Dr. Davis, Mr.
23 O'Hara.
Topic 5, epoxy coating, Mr. Ashar, Dr. Davis, 24 Mr. O'Hara.
Topic 6, future corrosion, Mr. Ashar, Dr.
25
- Davis, Dr. Hartzman, Mr. O'Hara, Mr. Salomon.
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The Board finds that these witnesses are 2
qualified to testify as experts.
We accept their 3
prefiled written statements as expert testimony, and 4
we find they are qualified to give expert opinion 5
testimony on those panel topics.
6 Let's proceed to AmerGen's proposed expert 7
witnesses.
The Staff and Citizens have had the 8
opportunity to review the Statement of Professional 9
Qualifications of those proposed expert witnesses.
10 NRC Staff and Citizens, do you have any objection to 11 receiving their prefiled written statements as expert 12 testimony?
13 MS.
BATY:
The Staff has no objection.
14 MR.
WEBSTER:
Citizens questions whether 15 all of AmerGen's witnesses really are experts.
We 16 believe some of their witnesses are actually fact 17 witnesses; specifically, Michael Gallagher, who was 18 clearly more of a manager than a technical expert.
19 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
You object to him 20 testifying as an expert witness because you view him 21 as a fact witness, do I understand you correctly, Mr.
22 Webster?
23 MR. WEBSTER:
That's correct.
Well, there 24 may be a narrow area of expertise that he may be able 25 to qualify in.
I'm not quite sure exactly what --
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big the scope AmerGen is attempting to qualify him in.
2 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Could I
hear from 3
AmerGen on that, please?
4 MR.
SILVERMAN:
- Yes, in just a moment, 5
Your Honor.
6 (Pause.)
7 This is Don Silverman for AmerGen, Your 8
Honor.
We would strongly oppose any characterization 9
of Mr. Gallagher, or any objection to Mr. Gallagher's 10 qualifications, on a number of counts.
The first one 11 is that this is the first we've heard of this, and 12 Citizens had the opportunity to raise this objection 13 on a number of occasions.
14 Mr.
Gallagher has been on these panels 15 since our direct prefiled testimony was originally 16 filed.
- And, furthermore, he is Vice President of 17 License Renewal Projects for the company.
He has 18 broad responsibility for a
lot of the topics and 19 issues that are raised on the various panels.
20 He has got a bachelor degree in chemical 21 engineering.
He is supported in his testimony by 22 others as well, that in some cases may have more 23 detailed facts.
But, nevertheless, Mr. Gallagher can 24 testify and has sworn he can testify to the things he 25 is testifying to.
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at all for any kind of caveat on his qualifications.
2 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
NRC Staff, 3
would you like to weigh in?
4 MS.
BATY:
The Staff joins with AmerGen's 5
objection for the reasons stated by Mr.
Silverman.
6 MR.
WEBSTER:
May I clarify, Judge?
The 7
reason they haven't objected so far is because so far 8
we regard his testimony as fact-based testimony.
9 There is a
danger that he may stray into expert 10 testimony if he is allowed to.
11 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Mr.
- Webster, your 12 objection is overruled.
13 Let me go to the second part of my 14 question.
Do either NRC Staff or Citizens have any 15 objection to AmerGen's proposed expert witness 16 testifying orally as experts on the panel topics 17 identified by AmerGen?
18 MS.
BATY:
The Staff has no objection.
19 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Yes, we do.
My apologies.
20 Perhaps I was a bit premature.
With regard to Mr.
21 Gallagher, we believe he is a fact witness, not an 22 expert witness.
23 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
For the 24 same reasons which were previously mentioned by 25 AmerGen, that objection is overruled.
The Board finds NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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that the witnesses offered by AmerGen are qualified to 2
testify as experts.
3 MR.
WEBSTER:
I'm sorry.
May I just for 4
the record?
5 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS.:
You may.
6 MR.
WEBSTER:
There are a couple of other 7
witnesses I'd like to object to.
8 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Say that again, please, 9
Mr.
10 MR.
WEBSTER:
If I could, I would like to 11 have --
I would-like to state my objection to a couple 12 of other AmerGen witnesses with regard to their 13 qualifications.
14 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Go ahead.
15 MR.
WEBSTER:
Okay.
Citizens, likewise, 16 objects to Mr.
- Polaski, who again is more in the 17 nature of a fact witness than an expert witness, and 18 the qualifications of Mr.
O'Rourke, who is, 19 similarly --
20 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Is that it?
Mr.
21 Polaski and Mr.
O'Rourke, any others?
22 MR.
WEBSTER:
No others, Your Honor.
23 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
- Response, please, by 24 AmerGen?
25 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Your
- honor, the same NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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objection with respect to the fact that Citizens have 2
had plenty of time to raise these objections, and they 3
are completely untimely at this point.
Mr.
Polaski 4
has been on Panel 1 for quite some time.
Mr. O'Rourke 5
has been a witness from the very beginning, I believe, 6
completely out of order as far as we're concerned.
7 If it's important for your ruling for us 8
to go through their qualifications, I would be happy 9
to do so.
10 MR.
WEBSTER:
May I
- clarify, Judge?
We 11 are not objecting to their testimony submitted so far.
12 We have not made objection to that, because we regard 13 their testimony as fact-based testimony.
We are 14 objecting to their providing expert testimony in 15 response to Panel questions.
16 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Why don't you address 17 their expertise as well, Mr. Silverman?
18 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Thank you.
19 JUDGE ABRAMSON:
Mr.
Silverman, while 20 you're working on that --
this is Judge Abramson --
21 let me just note for the record, the procedures of 22 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panels are informal 23 by their nature.
We take, with a grain of salt, what 24 we hear from people.
We have two technical members of 25 this Panel.
We will certainly be able to sort out NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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what we give credibility to and what we do not, as we 2
have said in several rulings.
3 It's for that reason we have declined to 4
bar or strike certain testimony, and for that same 5*
reason I
am disinclined to limit or eliminate any 6
particular expert whom we may wish to question.
7 MR.
WEBSTER:
Sorry, Judge.
May I just 8
make one other -- with regard to Mr. Tamburro, again, 9
we question his qualifications with regard to, again, 10 we believe he's a fact witness, not an expert on 11 statistical analysis.
12 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Mr. Silverman, let me 13 relieve you of having to look at that.
The Board is 14 familiar with the professional qualifications, the 15 record submitted by AmerGen, and is satisfied that 16 these individuals identified by Mr. Webster have the 17 experience, background, education, to testify as 18 experts.
- And, moreover, we agree with your 19 observations that the principles of timeliness, 20 principles of
- waiver, strongly compel against 21 entertaining his objection.
22 So those objections, Mr.
- Webster, are 23 overruled.
The Board finds the witnesses offered by 24 AmerGen are qualified to testify as experts.
We do 25 accept their prefiled written testimony, and we find NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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they are qualified to give expert opinion testimony on 2
the Panel topics identified for.AmerGen.
I am going 3
to identify the topics and the witnesses that will be 4
testifying as experts orally on behalf of AmerGen, and 5
please confirm that I am correct when I identify them, 6
Mr.
Silverman.
7 Topic 1, drywell physical structure, 8
history, and commitments, Mr.
O'Rourke, Mr.
- Polaski, 9
and Mr. Gallagher.
Topic 2, acceptance criteria, Mr.
10 Gallagher, Mr.
- Tamburro, Mr. Awahoo (phonetic).
11 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Ahmed Ouaou.
12 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
And Dr.
13 Mayta.
14 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Correct.
15 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Topic 3, the available 16
- margin, Mr.
- Polaski, Mr.
- Tamburro, Dr.
- Harlow, Mr.
17 Abramovici.
18 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Abramovici.
19 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Abramovici, and Mr.
20 McAllister.
Topic 4, sources of water, Mr. O'Rourke, 21 Mr.- Ouaou, Mr.
- Ray, Mr.
- Hawkins, Mr.
Erickson.
22 Topic 5, the epoxy coating, Mr.
- Ouaou, Mr.
- Hawkins, 23 Mr.
Erickson, Mr. Cavallo, Mr. McAllister.
Topic 6, 24 future corrosion, Mr.
Gallagher, Mr.
- Tamburro, Mr.
25 Gordon, and Mr.
Hosterman.
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MR.
SILVERMAN:
And Topic 7, which is our 2
concluding
- topic, which appears in our direct 3
testimony, would be Mr. Gallagher and Mr.
Tamburro.
- 4.
CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
All right.
Thank you.
5 Let's move to Citizens' proposed expert.
6 AmerGen and the NRC Staff have had the opportunity to 7
review the, Statement of Professional Qualifications of 8
Dr. Hausler.
Aside from the objections you've already 9
made in your motions in limine, which the Board has 10 ruled upon and which are preserved for purposes of 11
- appeal, do you have any objection to receiving Dr.
12 Hausler's prefiled written statements contained in 13 Citizens' Exhibits as expert testimony?
14 MS.
BATY:
The Staff has no additional 15 objections.
16 MR.
SILVERMAN:
And Applicant has no 17 additional objections.
18 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
And aside 19 from the objections you made in those motions in 20
- limine, which I said are preserved for purposes of 21
- appeal, do you have any objection to him testifying 22 orally as an expert on the topic matters that we will 23 discuss next week?
24 MR.
SILVERMAN:
We do not.
25 MS.
BATY:
No additional objections.
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CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
The Board 2
finds Dr.
Hausler is qualified to testify as an 3
expert.
We accept his prefiled written statements and 4
Citizens' exhibits as expert testimony, and we find he 5
is qualified to provide expert opinion testimony in 6
the hearing next week.
7 And let's turn, finally, to Ms.
Lund and 8
Mr. Lanoly.
9 MS.
BATY:
It's Mr.
Manoly.
10 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Mr. Lanoly (phonetic).
11 Thank you.
12 MS.
BATY:
- Manoly, M.
13 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Oh, Manoly.
All right.
14 The NRC Staff submitted the Statement of 15 Professional Qualifications in the names of these 16 individuals on Tuesday indicating they will be 17 available to answer questions regarding reasonable 18 assurance posed by the Board at the hearing.
19 Mr.
- Webster, I understand that you have 20 objections to them testifying generally, and 21 specifically in a capacity of experts.
Can we hear 22 from you now on that?
23 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Well, perhaps I wouldn't 24 characterize it quite that way, Judge.
The objection 25 we have is that Staff was notified by the Board of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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question in August prior to rebuttal testimony.
They 2
did not submit any testimony whatsoever-from these 3
witnesses.
4 So allowing these witnesses to testify 5
orally at this point, without submitting any prefiled 6
testimony, would deprive Citizens of the chance to 7
propound questions, and it would also deprive Citizens 8
of the chance to rebut that testimony.
9 We note that in 10 CFR 2.1202(a) (3),
it 10 states that once the NRC Staff chooses to participate 11 as a
- party, it shall have all the rights and 12 responsibilities of a
party with respect to the 13 admitted contention.
Staff decided to participate as 14 a party on April 3, 2005, by letter from Anne Hopton 15 to the Board.
16
- Citizens, therefore, suggests that NRC 17 Staff has not met the responsibility of a party, which 18 is to submit prefiled testimony for the other parties 19 to have a chance to propound questions and submit 20 rebuttal.
However, we recognize that the Board wishes 21 to have a full answer on this topic, and we do believe 22 it's an important topic.
And we certainly do not wish 23 to stand in the way of the Board getting a
full 24 answer.
25 Therefore, we suggest that we carve out NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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this issue and have a separate session on this issue 2
at a later
- date, and then NRC Staff can have the 3
opportunity to provide initial testimony for these 4
witnesses.
We can have an opportunity to provide 5
rebuttal and perhaps present our own witness on the 6
same issue, and then we can have a and then we can 7
propound questions as well, and then the Board can 8
both gets answers to these questions as it
- desires, 9
quite correctly, and Citizens can also have their 10 rights preserved.
11 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you for your 12 suggestion.
Let's hear from the NRC Staff.
13 MS.
BATY:
The Staff vigorously objects to 14 Mr.
Webster's assertion that the Staff is like any 15 other party.
The Staff is not treated like another 16 party.
In the rules, under
- 2336, it says the 17 requirements are for parties other than the NRC Staff, 18 and that's where the requirement is to identify 19 witnesses.
20 But, more importantly, these witnesses are 21 Staff identified these witnesses in response to the 22 Board's question in its September 12th Order, and they 23 directed the --
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and provide specific examples of the reasonable 2
assurance
- standard, has it been used in matters 3
involving measurements of parameters that are at issue 4
in license renewal proceedings.
5 MR.
WEBSTER:-,
Can I 6
MS.
BATY:
This is as a result the 7
Staff's addition of these witnesses is as a result of 8
only of the September 12th Order.
And they are 9
only going to address Question 1 or Topic Area 1
10 identified by the Board in the September 12th Order.
11 They are not rebuttal witnesses.
Their purpose is to 12 provide the Board with the information it requested on 13 September 12th.
So no additional session should be 14 needed.
15 MR.
WEBSTER:
Can I just clarify that the 16 question relates back to an August 9th Order.
17 Citizens did not object to having an evidentiary 18 session with regard to a response to this question.
19 Citizens agree that this question did provide some 20 clarification.
Citizens would also like the chance to 21 provide an expert witness on this issue.
22 We believe that because the 23 responsibilities of a party are to submit initial 24 testimony, so that other parties have a chance to 25 rebut, but we cannot add a witness on this issue at NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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this late stage, and in any event it's very difficult 2
to schedule a witness on this issue.
3 There is one exception to the rules --
4 that the NRC Staff has the responsibility of the party 5
that is only in the discovery area.
We are now 6
well beyond discovery.
Once testimony has been 7
submitted, obviously, the fact that the Staff is not 8
to disclose testimony in
- advance, it becomes 9
immaterial.
10 The Staff had a chance to submit these 11 witnesses before.
Because the Staff has waited until 12 this late date to add
- them, we think it's only 13 appropriate to provide Citizens with the chance to 14 address these questions in the same way the Staff 15 wished to address these questions.
And, moreover, we 16 believe that the Board will get a more complete answer 17 to its remaining questions if we have a session later 18 on.
19 The sessions that we already have 20 scheduled I think will be amply taken up by the other 21 issues that are to be heard in this matter.
22 Thank you.
23 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
AmerGen, do 24 you have any comments on this?
25 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Just a few brief
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Your Honor.
- One, we concur with the Staff on this.
2 We think that the issue was occasioned very 3
specifically by the Board's question in its 4
September 12th Order, which was Mr.
Webster is 5
correct --
an adjunct of prior questions you raised, 6
but nevertheless is very specific about the 7
information you want witnesses to speak to.
8 And I would add that Mr. Webster, in his 9
which has been ruled on, of course, but in his 10 motion in limine, one of my motions in limine has --
11 pardon me one second.
12 I'm sorry.
In his surrebuttal testimony 13 he had a second opportunity to raise to present 14 evidence, and he did present evidence on this question 15 of reasonable assurance.
16 Finally, and most emphatically, we would 17 strongly oppose a delay in the proceeding, a carve-out 18 of the proceeding, to address an issue such as this.
19 We'd like to get this issue resolved and the hearing 20 completed on time next week.
21 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
The Board can well 22 understand AmerGen and the staff's reluctance to 23 extend the proceeding any longer than absolutely 24 necessary.
But I have to say I do believe that the 25 eleventh hour naming of these individuals does put Mr.
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Webster at a serious disadvantage in the sense that he 2
is completely unaware of what they may say, so he 3
can't provide questions to the Board, and his expert 4
witness won't be prepared in advance to respond, 5
because he doesn't know what he'Is going to respond to.
6 Having said that, the Board is going to 7
defer making any decision at this point on whether 8
we'll hear testimony from them.
It's our great hope 9
that-the questions we have about reasonable assurance 10 can be answered by the NRC Staff's witnesses without 11 having to resort to Ms. Lund and Mr. Manoly.
12 Having said that, unless the Board intends 13 to withdraw them as proposed witnesses, the Staff 14 should have them there at the full session of the 15 hearing next week in the event that the Board has 16 determined that the responses provided by your other 17 witnesses are not adequate on the reasonable assurance 18 issue.
19 JUDGE ABRAMSON:
Are you going to let me 20 speak to this now?
21 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
And Judge Abramson 22 would like to speak to this.
23 JUDGE ABRAMSO5N:
Let's get this perfectly 24 clear. What reasonable assurances means to the Staff 25 is all we're after. And while it may be possible that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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somebody outside the Staff would have an idea what 2
reasonable assurances mean in my view, and I suspect 3
in the view of Judge Baratta, we want to know what the 4
Staff means by "reasonable assurances," if we have to 5
deal with that.
6 And we intend, and you will --
you have 7
seen this in other proceedings in which we have been 8
- involved, that when we're asking expert witnesses 9
questions, at the end we will certainly ask counsel 10 for the other parties whether they think we've covered 11 everything they want to ask.
12 So, Mr.
- Webster, you will have every 13 opportunity to ask questions of these witnesses.
If, 14 in fact, you believe you have an expert who knows 15 something about how this agency has applied its 16 definition and what its definition is of reasonable 17 assurances, in other instances similar to this, then 18 by all means bring your reasonable assurances expert 19 who knows what this agency does to the hearing.
And 20 if you think you can dig somebody up afterward, then 21 we'll talk about it at the hearing.
22 We don't know at this point whether we're 23 going to need to dig into this.
Everybody understands 24 what's at issue in this case, and we'll try to deal 25 with this on the basis of the technical facts.
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need reasonable assurances questions answered, we're 2
going to go after them.
3 MR.
WEBSTER:
- Judge, may I just respond 4
respectfully that it's much more difficult to provide 5
cogent questions for the Board when we're responding 6
in real time rather than having the chance to consult 7
with other individuals on prefiled testimony where we 8
get around a week to think about those questions and 9
try to make them as cogent as possible.
10 JUDGE'ABRAMSON:
If, Mr. Webster, as you 11 assert, you've known since our early questions that 12 this is what we were after, then your testimony should 13 address this already.
We've been trying to probe 14
- this, as you suggest, for some time and we've with our 15 last questions tried to clarify it to get a little 16 more meat into the responses we've been getting.
17 I'm sympathetic with your concern about 18 not being able to foresee what questions we're going 19 to ask and what answers we're going to get, but that 20 applies to every single expert witness that's going to 21 be talked to by us.
Remember, we do the questionings.
22 This is a very different kind of proceeding from what 23 you might normally be accustomed to.
24 MR.
WEBSTER:
No, I
think I understand 25 that, Judge.
But with the other witnesses we've had NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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the advantage that we've been able to see their 2
testimony, we've been able to rebut their testimony, 3
and we've been able to propound questions for the 4
Board regarding their testimony.
5 This question, I mean, I don't --
I hope 6
I don't misrepresent that this issue was raised by the 7
Board on August 9th.
We agree --
I think all the 8
parties agree that there was a greater specificity 9
with regard to the Board's wishes provided on 10 September 12th.
And I think all the parties agree 11 that it was very difficult to --
on that date, when 12 the surrebuttal was due on September 14th, to submit 13 a responsive prefiling to this question.
14 The issues in this question I think can be 15 answered not only by the Staff.
It asks --
it asks 16 for specific examples where the reasonable assurance 17 standard has been used in matters involving 18 measurement of parameters that are at issue in license 19 renewal proceedings, as well as in making 20 determinations as to whether a
licensee is in 21 compliance with its current licensing basis.
22 It's certainly my experience that --
and 23 I
think it's generally a
principle that an 24 adjudicatory tribunal should try to hear both sides of 25 the story.
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determinations, I agree it might be very useful for 2
the Panel to hear what the Staff -has got to say.
But 3
I also believe that it might be useful for the Panel 4
to hear another perspective on the same decision.
5 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you, Mr. Webster.
6 We understand your concern.
7 MS.
BATY:
If I may, Your Honor, a couple 8
extra additional points from the Staff.
The Order --
9 the Board's August --
excuse me, September 12th Order 10 specifically states that the parties should be 11 prepared to have their experts testify about 12 reasonable assurance at hearing.
The Board did not 13 direct the Staff to address the issue raised in the 14 September 12th Order in rebuttal testimony.
15 And also, the Board indicated during the 16 teleconference on the 5th of September that they 17 expected the parties to provide testimony at hearing 18 on the topics that they would memorialize in an Order, 19 which was the September 12th Order.
So to that 20 extent, no one would have an opportunity to know in 21 advance what the parties were going to say on this 22 topic, what experts might say on this topic, or the 23 proposed questions.
24 MR.
WEBSTER:
Let me be more specific, 25 Judge.
My problem here --
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MS.
BATY:
Excuse me, Mr. Webster.
I had 2
another point to
- make, and it's a
.matter of 3
clarification from Judge Abramson about Mr. Webster's 4
ability to ask questions.
I understand this is a
5 Subpart L proceeding, which the Board propounds the --
6 only the Board propounds questions to the witnesses, 7
and I didn't know whether there might have been some 8
ambiguity about his --
him --
not Mr. Webster having 9
an opportunity to ask Ms.
Lund or Mr.
Manoly 10 questions.
11 JUDGE ABRAMSON:
The cross examination 12 procedures for Subpart L are quite clear, but our 13 practice has been -- and I expect it to continue on my 14 part and on the part of Judge Baratta and I expect on 15 the part of Judge Hawkens that after or in the 16 middle of cross examine while we're asking a
17 witness what we think, it is likely that we will ask 18 counsel for the other parties whether they think we 19 have missed anything.
And we will ask those counsel 20 to tell us what they think we've missed.
21 We will also, as we have indicated to all 22 of you, ask other experts what they think about what 23 we're hearing.
Our focus here is fact-finding, and 24 that's what we're going to do, and we're going to do 25 it with the aid of everybody and with the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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participation of all parties.
2 MR.
WEBSTER:
May I just make one point?
3 At this stage, Citizens --
unfortunately, the expert 4
I have in my mind has confirmed to me that he is not 5.,
available for the three days of the hearing, but may 6
be available at a later date.
And so I think if we 7
are to go ahead with these questions on the last day 8
of the hearing 9
CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
I think we're beating 10 a dead horse here.
As I indicated, we're going to try 11 to get the information we need without resort to using 12 these individuals.
If we need to resort to them, if 13 the NRC Staff believes they have new information which 14 is important to put on the record, we'll hear from 15 them and we'll determine what the proper process to 16 ensure fairness to Citizens is at that time.
17 MR.
WEBSTER:
Okay.
Thank you, Judge.
18 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
All right.
Let's wrap 19 up some loose ends.
The NRC Staff had inquired about 20 procedures and timing for the transcript corrections.
21 I am going to ask one of you if you would please poll 22 the parties and reach agreement as to a date on the 23 submission of a motion for transcript corrections.
24 And if you would, once you select a date, advise Ms.
25 Wolf.
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And I
believe also either at the 2
conclusion of this hearing or another time Ms.
Wolf 3
will let you know --
she will provide the parties with 4
suggested formats for the preparation of that motion.
5 Will that be after this
- hearing, Ms.
- Wolf, or will 6
that be another time?
7 MS.
WOLF:
I can do it today.
8 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Sure.
Ms.
Wolf will 9
provide that to you at the close of this hearing.
10 Our next session is going to be at the 11 Ocean County Administrative Building in Tom's River, 12 New Jersey, on Monday.
The hearing session will open 13 at 0900.
We're informed that the facility itself 14 opens at 0700.
And if that's incorrect, Ms. Wolf will 15 advise the parties.
16 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Your Honor, when you are 17
- finished, there's one additional item we'd like to 18 raise today.
19 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Please go ahead.
20 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Thank you.
There is a
21 matter we've been able to coordinate with Citizens, 22 but we have not been able to coordinate with Staff.
23 And I wondered if we could just take five minutes to 24 speak with the Staff offline, and then we can get back 25 on the record and explain the item to you.
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CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Let's recess for five 2
minutes.
3 (Whereupon, the proceedings in the 4
foregoing matter went off the record at 5
12:41 p.m. and went back on the record at 6
12:46 p.m.)
7 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
All right.
We're back 8
in session.
9 Mr.
Silverman, you have the floor.
10 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Okay.
Thank you, Your 11 Honor.
AmerGen has a physical model of a quarter of 12 the drywell.
Mr.
Webster has seen it, and Staff has 13 seen it.
We have agreed with the parties that we are 14 going to bring it to the session in case the Board 15 would like to use it or in case any witness from any 16 of the parties would like to use it as a --
to, you 17
- know, make it
- clearer, the physical configuration, 18 etcetera.
19 We wouldn't be able to turn that physical 20 piece of --
that model over, but what we will do, and 21 the parties have agreed to this, is we will --
if it 22 becomes used, and you would like an exhibit, we will 23 have photographs of all four sides of the model and 24 the top down, and we could use that as introduce 25 that as an exhibit.
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All the parties have agreed to that 2
procedure.
We may not need it, but it might be 3
helpful to have the model.
4 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
That would be fine.
5 Have it ready.
6 MR.
SILVERMAN:
Thank you.
And then, I
7 don't know whether Mr. Webster had something else or 8
not here.
9 MS.
YOUNG:
Richard, was there something 10 you wanted to raise about the transcript delivery?
11 MR.
WEBSTER:
I was saying --
Ms.
Young 12 was asking me on what date we could have the 13 transcripts corrected.
And I was asking her, well, 14 what date could we expect the agency to supply it to 15 us?
16 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
I will let the NRC 17 Staff coordinate that with you, provide you with that 18 information, and establish an agreed-upon date.
19 MS.
YOUNG:
Judge Hawkens, just to refresh 20 Mr.
Webster and what I said to him previously, the 21 Staff cannot provide copies of transcripts to 22 intervenors.
There is a prohibition against providing 23 intervenors assistance.
I believe it's an Attorney 24 General Opinion and something that got put in the 25 Atomic Energy Act at some point.
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But there is a normal processing time when 2
things are in ADAMS and becomes available in 3
electronic hearing docket.
If there is any way for 4
the Board to expedite that, that's how Mr.
Webster 5
would obtain a copy of the transcript.
It wouldn't be 6
from the Staff directly.
7 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Mr. Webster, Ms.
Wolf 8
will look into that.
And to the extent we're able to 9
influence getting it quickly onto ADAMS, we will do 10 that, and she will let the parties know about that.
11 MR.
WEBSTER:
Thank you very much,. Judge.
12 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Are there any other 13 matters to be addressed?
NRC Staff?
14 MS.
BATY:
- Yes, Your Honor, one other 15 question.
When we --
when can we expect to get the 16 transcript from today's proceeding?
17 MS.
WOLF:
We asked for a
one-day 18 turnaround, so I --
whenever it gets to you --
I think 19 it's supposed to be hard copy tomorrow I think at 20 10:00.
Is that normal delivery time?
I think it's by 21 10:00.
So someone from this office normally sends it 22 up to your office in hard copy.
So when it comes in 23 it will be sent to you.
24 MS.
BATY:
Thank you.
25 MS.
WOLF:
Richard, for your information, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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you can arrange, at a cost obviously, with the Neal 2
Gross Company that does our court reporting to get 3
your own immediate turnaround if you'd like.
Just so 4
you know.
5 MR.
WEBSTER:
Okay.
And how will --
when 6
will the transcript be available for all the parties?
7 MS.
WOLF:
How about I'll give you a call 8
after
- this, and I can explain to you the transcript 9
process.
10 MR.
WEBSTER:
Thank you.
11 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Thank you.
Anything 12 from AmerGen?
13 MR.
SILVERMAN:
No.
14 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
Mr. Webster, anything 15 else?
16 MR.
WEBSTER:
Nothing further.
Thank you.
17 CHAIRMAN HAWKENS:
All right.
We're in 18 recess until
- Monday, 0900.
Thank you very much.
19 (Whereupon, at 12:50 p.m.,
the 20 proceedings in the foregoing matter were 21 adjourned.)
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CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Oyster Creek NGS Evidentiary Hearing Docket Number:
50-0219-LR Location:
Rockville, Maryland were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a
true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
ý`Charles Morrison Official Reporter Neal R.
Gross & Co.,
Inc.
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