ML071580352
| ML071580352 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Oyster Creek |
| Issue date: | 05/31/2007 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| SECY RAS | |
| References | |
| 50-219-LR, NRC-1597, RAS 13724 | |
| Download: ML071580352 (75) | |
Text
\ýr3t'Jt Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Oyster Creek Nuclear Generating Station Limited Appearance Docket Number: 50-219-LR DOCKETED USNRC June 7, 2007 (10:01am)
OFFICE OF SECRETARY Location: Toms River, New Jersey RULEMAKINGS AND ADJUDICATIONS STAFF Date: Thursday, May 31, 2007 Work Order No.: NRC-1597 Pages 1-73 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
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1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT SESSIONS 5
6 REGARDING: Docket No. 50-219-LR 7 AMERGEN COMPANY LLC 8 Oyster Creek Nuclear 9 Generating Station I 10 11 Thursday, May 31, 2007 12 13 Ocean County Administration Building 14 Room 119 15 101 Hooper Avenue 16 Toms River, New Jersey 17 18 The above-entitled session commenced at 2:00 pm 19 on May 31, 2007.
20 BEFORE:
21 Administrative Judge, E. Roy Hawkins, Chair 22 Administrative Judge, Anthony J. Baratta 23 Administrative Judge, Paul B. Abramson 24 ALSO PRESENT:
25 DEBRA WOLF Law Clerk NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 PPROCEEDINGS 2 [2:01 p.m]
3 JUDGE HAWKINS: Would people be kind 4 enough to take their seats, so we can proceed. It's 5 a little bit after 2:00 o'clock.
6 Good afternoon. My name is Roy Hawkins.
7 I'm joined at the table by Dr. Paul Abramson and Dr.
8 Tony Baratta. We're administrative judges. We've 9 been appointed to adjudicate the issues raised in this 10 case, and the case involves a challenge brought by six 11 groups, which, for now, I'll refer to collectively as 12 "citizens," pursuant to thmir request, and they bring 13 a challenge to an application by AmeirGen for a 20 year 14 license renewal for the Oyster Creek nuclear 15 generating station.
16 The board is not here today to adjudicate 17 the issue raised by these six groups. Rather, we're 18 here today to hold a limited appearance 19 session and there's a distinction between those two 20 functions and I'd like to take a few minutes to 21 address those distinctions.
22 First, with regard to the adjudication, as 23 I mentioned, it's being brought by six groups and I'd 24 like to take this moment, now, to identify who those 25 six groups are, for the benefit of those assembled.
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3 1 Number one, Nuclear Information and 2 Resource Service. Two, Jersey Shore Nuclear Watch, 3 Incorporated. Three, Grandmothers and More for Energy 4 Safety. Four, New Jersey Public Interest Research 5 Group. Five, New Jersey Sierra Club, and six, New 6 Jersey Environmental Federation.
7 Previously, this board determined that
- 8. citizens, these six groups, raised an issue that 9 should be litigated under the governing federal 10 regulations, and that issue relates to whether 11 AmerGen's - proposed ultrasonic testing monitoring 12 program for a portion of its drywell shell is adequate 13 for the period of extended operation.command 14 The board has scheduled an evidentiary 15 hearing, or trial, where we'll adjudicate the issues 16 raised by citizens, and that trial, the hearing will 17 commence on September 24th, 2007, and the parties, at 18 that trial, will have an opportunity to present 19 evidence to the board, create a full record, and make 20 arguments in support of their positions based on the 21 evidence they put into the record before the board.
22 The hearing will be open to the public, 23 it'll be held at a location here in this area, that 24 location has not yet been determined, but I must say 25 the board is very impressed with this particular NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 venue. So if we can get the cooperation of the 2 owners, we may try to get it here.
3 But in any event, the location will be 4 announced when that's been determined, and after the 5 hearing, the board will issue a written decision based 6 on the record before us, created by the parties.
7 That decision can be appealed by any party 8 to the administrative appellate body, which is a five 9 member commission of the Nuclear Regulatory 10 Commission. Their decision can, in turn, be appealed 11 by a party to the United States Court of Appeals, and 12 to the extent any party's unhappy with the Court of 13 Appeals' decision, they may seek review in the U.S.
14 Supreme Court.
15 That, in a nutshell, is our adjudicative 16 function, which is distinguished from what we're doing 17 here today, which is a limited appearance session.
18 Federal regulations provide that a board 19 may entertain a written or an oral statement from any 20 person who is not a party to the litigation. So that 21 person will have the opportunity to present his or her 22 position on a related issue.
23 Now the regulation recognizes the value in 24 having public citizens who are not actually parties to 25 the litigation present their views, because although NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5 1 they may not be a party to the litigation, they may 2 have a very significant interest in a matter related 3 to the litigation.
4 At this point, I'd like to take a moment 5 and address exactly what it means when it says the 6 board may entertain oral statement from any person 7 who's not a party to the litigation, because that has 8 raised some questions in this particular case.
9 A party, normally, is easily defined when 10 you have a person bringing a suit or a single person 11 being sued. That person is a party. The question as 12 to what is a party is not as easily answered when you 13 have, on one side, a very large corporation with a 14 number of paid employees. He's a paid employee, a 15 party, regardless of his position in the workforce.
16 Is it the entire corporate board? Is it 17 any officer, regardless of seniority, regardless of 18 length of service? And likewise, with regard to the 19 six groups who are challenging AmerGen's license 20 application renewal, should "party" be construed 21 broadly, so that any individual who's a member of an 22 organization cannot speak today?
23 Should it be limited simply to the 24 corporate, or the officers of those six organizations?
25 There's some elasticity in the term, in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 the context of this case, and this board, in an effort 2 to be as inclusive as possible, has tried to construe 3 that term as narrowly as possible, and therefore, we 4 requested that the attorney for each party provide a 5 single name, a party representative.
6 For example, for citizens it would be one 7 individual who is the party representative for that 8 organization. And so to that extent, we've limited 9 the individuals who would be restricted from speaking 10 and try to be as inclusive as we can, so we can hear 11 from everybody.
12 Statements that you will make today are 13 not considered part of the evidentiary record. It's 14 up to the parties to create their evidentiary record 15 for the issues they've brought and they will be 16 creating that record at the trial we'll hold in 17 September.
18 But I do want to emphasize that the 19 statements you make today are, nevertheless, 20 important. They are being transcribed. They're going 21 to be put into the official Agency docket for. this 22 proceeding, and it may help the board and the parties, 23 in their consideration of the issues of this 24 proceeding.
25 At this point, something else I would like NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 to emphasize is that we members of the board up here, 2 we're adjudicators, we're judges, we're independent of 3 the NRC. We're not policy makers for the NRC. Our 4 role in the adjudicative is limited, by regulations, 5 to resolving the issues brought before us by the 6 parties.
7 So our responsibility, our duty, our 8 authority, does not extent beyond that. So to the 9 extent you wish to make statements today, which may be 10 helpful to us, or to the parties in this case, we ask 11 you to keep that in mind and seek to make statements 12 which may be relevant to the issue pending before the 13 board, which as I mentioned earlier, goes to the 14 safety margin, the drywell shell, it goes, to corrosive 15 environment in the drywell shell and it goes to UT 16 frequency measurements in the drywell shell.
17 At this moment I'd like to ask--I know 18 there's at least one attorney representing the parties 19 here, and I'd like any other- attorneys--we'll start 20 with the attorney for citizens. I'd ask them to rise, 21 introduce themselves for the record, and for the 22 benefit of everybody else, and if you have anybody 23 with you, that you'd like to introduce, please feel 24 free to do so.
25 Excuse me, Mr. Webster, could you speak NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 1 louder. Come up to the microphone, please. Thank 2 you.
3 MR. WEBSTER: Yes. Thank you, Judge 4 Hawkins, for giving me the chance to just introduce 5 myself. I'm Richard Webster. I'm an attorney at the 6 Rutgers Environmental Law Clinic. We represent the 7 six citizens groups that Judge Hawkins has just 8 mentioned, and today we have a couple of people who 9 won't be speaking because they are party 10 representatives.
11 Can I just clarify, Judge. When you said 12 there was one party representative, did you mean one 13 person per organization, or one person for the 14 citizens as a whole?
15 JUDGE HAWKINS: One person per 16 organization.
17 MR. WEBSTER: Right; okay. That's what 18 I'd understood before. Thank you.
19 So there are some people here today who 20 can't speak because they are party representatives.
21 They are sitting over here.
22 There's Janet Tauro. There's Paul Gunter.
23 Janet is from Grammies. Paul is from Nuclear 24 Information Resource Service.
25 So you won't be hearing from them today, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 1 but I'm sure--oh, and Edith Gbur; sorry. Edith Gbur 2 is Jersey Shore Nuclear Watch.
3 Abigail from New Jersey PIRG also won't be 4 speaking. So there are a number of people here today 5 who won't be speaking. I will endeavor to do my best 6 to speak on their behalf, if and when we have an 7 evidentiary hearing on the issues at hand.
8 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you very much.
9 Do we have the attorney representatives 10 from AmerGen here?
11 MR. FERRARO: Good afternoon, Judge 12 Hawkins. My name is Don Ferraro. I'm assistant 13 general counsel for Exelon and for AmerGen. We have 14 a few personnel here from AmerGen. We have Mike 15 Hufnagel and Mike Gallagher from our Kennet Square 16 office.
17 JUDGE HAWKINS: All right. Thank you very 18 much.
19 The third party who will be participating 20 in the litigation is the NRC staff. Do we have a 21 representative of the staff here?
22 Ms. Baty, how are you?
23 MS. BATY: I'm good. My name is Mary Baty 24 and Mitzi Young will be joining me. I can see her 25 coming in. She was parking the car. We had a little NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 1 difficulty with our government car this morning.
2 JUDGE HAWKINS: All right. Thank you very 3 much.
4 With that, I'd like to briefly discuss the 5 procedure for making statements today. .
6 We've had some individuals who did pre-7 register. They'll be given the first opportunity to 8 speak.
9 After that, we'll move on to whoever does 10 arrive and registers outside. If you do wish to 11 speak, it's required that you register first.
12 So if you wish to speak and have not 13 registered, just step outside and our administrative 14 assistant, Ms. Libby Perch, will give you the 15 necessary documents for registering, and she will 16 provide us with the list, periodically, through this 17 session, and we'll just call them in order.
18 If anybody is here who wishes to express 19 a view but is disinclined to stand up and make an oral 20 statement, you're welcome to provide a written 21 statement, and to assist you in that, our law clerk, 22 Ms. Debra Wolf, xeroxed nearly a 100 pieces of paper 23 which have the relevant docketing information on it.
24 I think they're located out there also with Ms. Perch.
25 So you're welcome to provide a written NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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11 1 statement as well, and leave it with Ms. Perch before 2 you leave.
3 We'll be keeping track of each speaker's 4 time. As we indicated in the Federal Register notice, 5 it will not be longer than five minutes, and we will 6 be keeping track of it.
7 Ms. Wolf has cue cards, an amber card when 8 you have one minute left, I believe, and a red card 9 when your time has lapsed, and when you see the red 10 card come up, if you'd do us the courtesy of making an 11 effort to rapidly wrap up your comments, we'd be 12 grateful.
13 And to the extent five minutes is not 14 enough, you're welcome to supplement your oral 15 statement with written comments provided.
16 And as a final note, because pretty soon 17 Debra will be holding up that red card for me to stop 18 speaking, but it is important to the board, and the 19 parties, to everybody in -attendance, that everybody 20 has the opportunity to hear the full statement of each 21 person making a statement, and I'd therefore ask that 22 everybody here assembled respect the person who's 23 making the statement, allow them to make it without 24 any distraction, without interruption, or without any 25 sounds or comments, either in support of or in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 opposition to the individual.
2 I'd also ask people to turn off any 3 cellphones or any electronic devices they may have, 4 and I would likewise ask my fellow board members to 5 turn off any cellphones or electronic devices they 6 have.
7 Judge Abramson has correctly said that it 8 may be well to emphasize that this session is for you 9 to make a statement presenting your views on a related 10 issue and so we will not be engaging in a dialogue, we 11 won't be responding, but I assure you that we will be 12 listening, with great attention, to what you have to 13 say.
14 With that, let us proceed, allowing the 15 people to make their comments, and as I said, we'll 16 start with those who pre-registered.
17 Mr. David McKeon, who's the planning 18 director for the Ocean County Planning Board.
19 Good afternoon, sir.
20 MR. McKEON: Good afternoon. Thank you.
21 Thank you, panel.
22 I am presenting, for the record, comments 23 on behalf of the Ocean County Board of Chosen 24 Freeholders, and its director, John P. Kelly.
25 As director of law and public safety, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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13 1 Freeholder Kelly has closely monitored for the board 2 the licensing procedures for the Oyster Creek 3 Generating Station.
4 Throughout this process, there have been 5 concerns expresses to the Board of Freeholders, by 6 residents and officials of this county, regarding 7 safety and security issues at Oyster Creek.
8 These concerns, including on-site storage 9 of spent fuel, evacuation plans, quality integrity of 10 the original plant construction, and security, 11 especially related to the threat of terrorism, have 12 been forward to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
13 On April 18th, 2007, the Board of Chosen 14 Freeholders passed a resolution urging the NRC to 15 reverse its current position and include an evaluation 16 of terrorism threats in its relicensing review 17 process.
18 The county is prepared to join the State 19 of New Jersey in a judicial review of this issue. As 20 recently as May 24th, 2007, Director Kelly and the 21 county administrator met with the NRC's state liaison 22 officer and senior resident inspector for an update on 23 these issues.
24 During the relicensing process for the 25 Oyster Creek Generating Station, this board has heard NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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14 1 from both supporters and critics of the relicensing 2 application.
3 The board appreciates the contribution of 4 the Oyster Creek facility to the local energy grid and 5 to the local economy. Freeholders have also heard 6 continuing concerns from residents and local
- 7. organizations regarding the safety and reliability of 8 the facility.
9 It was the first, and is now the oldest 10 operating nuclear facility in the country. The board 11 has not taken a position opposing or supporting the 12 plant's relicensing because we are relying on the NRC 13 as the sole regulatory agency authorized to provide a 14 decision following a full and thorough review of all 15 the issues and concerns that have been raised, whether 16 by this board or by residents.
17 This board has fully participated in the 18 review process so far, has diligently worked to make 19 certain that the concerns and issues have been heard 20 and are addressed.
21 It is imperative the NRC's decision takes 22 all this into consideration.
23 As it is understood, the scope of this 24 meeting is limited to the integrity of the drywell 25 liner below the sandbed region and the ultrasonic NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 i testing methods proposed by AmerGen, the owners of the 2 facility.
3 In that regard, there appear to be two 4 major concerns that have been expressed to the board 5 and appear not to have been addressed to date by the 6 federal regulating body that ultimately will determine 7 whether the license to operate Oyster Creek *is 8 renewed.
9 The first issue is the current integrity 10 of the drywell liner as measured by two recent but 11 separate rounds of testing. There is ongoing concern 12 over various data regarding the actual thickness of 13 the liner and whether adequate testing can be done to 14 ensure that the proper thickness threshold is 15 maintained.
16 These results need to be adequately 17 explained to the public.
18 It is apparent from the May 23rd annual 19 performance report meeting in Toms River, that there 20 is still sharp disagreement over this issue.
21 AmerGen's proposed periodic testing 22 program cannot be considered appropriate if 23 uncertainty remains regarding the current thickness 24 and safety of the drywell liner.
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16 1 not only safe to operate now but also 20 years into 2 the future, and this decision needs to be adequately 3 understood and supported by the public to resolve the 4 concerns about safety and health issues.
5 The second issue pertains to the 6 documented leaks associated with the drywell liner.
7 The NRC's position is that it is satisfied that the 8 leak has subsequently been addressed following the 9 application of sealer to the liner.
10 However, the source and reason for the 11 original leak do not appear to have been determined, 12 Until this information is discovered and properly 13 explained, mere application of sealer does not 14 eliminate a serious concern.
15 Again, it is the responsibility of the NRC 16 to ensure that the application of sealer eliminates 17 the serious concern and that they are fully satisfied, 18 as should be the public, that the problem is resolved.
19 Other points of concern brought to the 20 freeholders, and which have certainly been placed on 21 the record, are issues with the initial quality of the 22 construction of the drywell floor, the steel liner and 23 the sandbed floor.
24 The NRC needs to adequately explain that 25 these portions of the facility, which were given NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 1 approval when the plant first began operating in 1969, 2 continue to meet the appropriate safety standards.
3 This is particularly important because 4 many of the suspected flaws or corroded areas are not 5 easily accessible and difficult to adequately inspect 6 or test.
7 As stated earlier, the Ocean County Board 8 of Chosen Freeholders appreciates the contributions of 9 the Oyster Creek Generating Station to the community; 10 however, questions remain as to the ability of this 11 facility to continue safe operations beyond the 12 current licensing period.
13 The public has the right to raise concerns 14 regarding the drywell liner and other safety-related 15 issues. It is the responsibility of the NRC to 16 address all of these concerns and adequately respond 17 to them prior to the decision on relicensing.
18 Thank you for the opportunity to present 19 these comments outlining the ongoing concerns of our 20 residents and the Ocean County Board of Chosen 21 Freeholders.
2.2 JUDGE HAWKINS: Next we'll hear from Paula 23 Gotsch, please. Joseph Mangano will be on dick.
24 MS. GOTSCH: Hi. I'm a local citizen, 25 living about 15 miles from the plant, and I wanted to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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18 1 talk today about two things. Institutional knowledge 2 and surprises.
3 One of the biggest surprises we had at the 4 May 23rd meeting, when the public--this was a meeting 5 open to all. I want to say. also, that I have 6 attended, since I moved down here, every NRC meeting 7 that's been held, and patiently trying to figure out 8 why decisions are made the way they are.
9 But anyway, the surprise was that when 10 asked what are the numbers and the data that is 11 actually used. for you to say that the safety margins 12 in the drywell liner are sound, and that because we're 13 hearing it's safe, the drywell liner's safe.
14 So I'm waiting, I'm sitting there, and 15 it's like they're throwing the ball around, to AmerGen 16 people, to NRC people. No one can give the reasons.
17 No one can give the figures. They don't have the 18 figures.
19 Okay. That was a surprise to me. I 20 thought people knew what they were talking about. And 21 in surprises -- I do want to digress a little to 22 David-Bessie, because I see a lot of parallels here, 23 and I know that then-Chairman Richard Meserve of the 24 NRC said the unexpected head corrosion was a surprise.
25 Well, talking about institutional memory, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 1 30 years ago, a nuclear plant in Switzerland, it was 2 called the Beznau, I think that's. how you--was found 3 to have a hole in the head similar to Davis-Bessie.
4 An alert was sent out to all the--it's the 5 pressurized reactors, this time, saying, "Keep an eye 6 on the boric acid, especially if it's coming in 7 contact with important components, because there's a 8 bori-generic problem here. Okay?
9 But Chairman Meserve was surprised, 10 because somehow, in all the layers of things that 11 happened, things get lost, things don't get picked up.
12 Okay. And I see the same thing with Oyster Creek, 13 what's happened there.
14 You know, I know many of us, senior 15 citizens, we come to meetings and say, you know, where 16 is the data from the UT testings. We want to feel 17 like we're secure. And so we were politely told, you 18 know, patted on the head, little old ladies in tennis 19 shoes--You wouldn't understand it if we gave it to 20 you.
21 So since, you know, we've been accused of 22 being emotional and hysterical, we're saying we just 23 want the facts. We just want the facts. So finally, 24 somehow, a citizen got ahold of some data from the NRC 25 and looked at the facts and said, oh, my God, there's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 1 a discrepancy in these figures in the last ten years.
2 No one has picked up that the figures are not right.
3 And I won't go into that because it's--you 4 probably know about that already. But the figures
- 5 were not right in that it seemed to have thickened, 6 and so again, in terms of surprises, an engineer at 7 the nuclear plant at Oyster Creek said he was 8 surprised. Oh, you're surprised to hear that?
9 So, you know. And then, at this last 10 meeting on the 23rd also, people from the regional--
11 this was the regional meeting with Sam Collins and 12 company--said, made the comment, two or three times, 13 that they were concerned about the institutional 14 memory loss because of the fact that people had left 15 the plant and they were training new people to come 16 on, and they said you have to make sure that that 17 doesn't get lost.
18 Well, we also learned that there was a 19 "white" finding that they couldn't close because 20 people still weren't convinced that they needed to 21 follow proper procedure, that they could skip around.
22 A worker said, well, it's okay if I skip 23 around, and they said, no, no, you can't skip around.
24 So they haven't been able to close a two year old 25 "white" problem.
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21 1 Now a few years ago, there was another 2 "white" problem at the plant which related to cables, 3 and they were very important because they were hooked 4 up to the vital safety component.
.5 They were cited for failure to replace 6 4,000 volt underground cables from the emergency 7 generator to vital safety components.
8 Now license documents contain engineering 9 analysis and design specifications. They should have 10 known that they kept replacing that, cause this 11 happened three times, with the wrong cable. And the 12 reason they were rotting and they were wearing out is 13 cause they had three times in a row replaced this 14 cable with the wrong cable, instead of going back to 15 the licensing documents.
16 The same thing happened with the "green" 17 finding. They kept replacing a fuse, that was, again, 18 related to fairly important things. I lose track of 19 it all here. But again, the license documents 20 contained that information.
21 You know, why didn't they go back there 22 and do that? Because I think when that plant started 23 up, there was 1000 employees. When Exelon bought it, 24 when AmerGen bought it, now it's down to four hundred, 25 I think under four hundred fifty.
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22 1 A lot of them are not the original 2 employees. So what I'm saying to you is that Oyster 3 Creek is a heavily-corroded reactor, with leakage that 4 has not had root-cause identification, and which 5 AmerGen plans to monitor, not identify and fix.
6 AmerGen and NRC do not know if the 7 corrosion in the drywell liner meets the safety margin 8 standards that they themselves have established.
9 The GE analysis of the drywell, which 10 AmerGen and NRC staff have chosen to rely upon, even 11 though they had Sandia do a study, which disagreed 12 with GE, other corrosion experts "weighing in" are 13 also in disagreement with the GE analysis that AmerGen 14 is choosing to use as the basis.
15 In other words, we've got a lot of experts 16 that don't agree here. That does not mean problem 17 solved. That means we better look at this problem.
18 We have faithfully attended--I should say 19 I have--
20 JUDGE HAWKINS: Excuse me, I hate to 21 interrupt you, but your time did lapse about a minute 22 ago. If you could wrap it up.
23 MS. GOTSCH: Oh, that was nice of you. I 24 will. Okay. All I'm saying is we have no reason to 25 believe that Oyster Creek is the Good Ship Lollipop, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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23 1 that AmerGen would like us to believe it is. And I'm 2 not going to joke anymore because this is our homes, 3 this is our families.
4 We are concerned that we're going to be 5 left with a corroded plant, with a lot of workers that 6 are still having problems, you know, running the 7 thing, and it's not--it's scary. That's all I have to 8 say. Thank you.
9 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you very much.
10 Mr. Mangano. Marianne Clemente is on 11 deck.
12 MR. MANGANO: Good afternoon, gentlemen, 13 and thank you very much for this opportunity.
14 I'm Joseph Mangano and I'm the director of 15 the Radiation and Public Health Project. We are a 16 independent group of health research professionals and 17 our work is to do studies on health risks posed by 18 nuclear weapons explosions and nuclear reactors.
19 My remarks today will be focused in some 20 way on the specific issue, the drywell liner, but 21 also, in general, about all mechanical parts of the 22 Oyster Creek reactor and the need to improve safety of 23 all parts as a contingent for relicensing.
24 Our members believe that the only way to 25 do this properly is a way that has not, to this point, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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24 1 been followed by the NRC, is to analyze evidence on 2 how much radiation escapes from nuclear reactors, how 3 much of it winds up in the environment, how much of it 4 winds up in the human body, and how much harm does it 5 cause to these human bodies.
6 And if you'll let me, I will just go 7 through a few basic data to indicate what we have 8 found so far.
9 First of all, the emissions. As we all 10 know, routinely, and through accidental releases, over 11 100 radioactive chemicals that are only. found in 12 reactors and atomic bombs, are released into the 13 atmosphere, including Strontium 90, Iodine 131, 14 Plutonium 239, etcetera.
15 For years, the amounts of emissions have 16 been calculated. Oyster Creek, for the first 25 years 17 of its life, was the reactor with the highest level of 18 releases of what we call I 131 and effluents, in other 19 words, airborne chemicals with a half-life of more 20 than eight days, are likely to get into the 21 environment.
22 In the most recent years, according to the 23 NRC Web site, Oyster Creek ranks in the top five in 24 chemicals, such as strontium and iodine. So releases 25 have always been relatively high and are still NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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25 1 relatively high.
2 As far as environmental levels go, again, 3 for years, this has been requirements from the Federal 4 Government, that each reactor operator measure, how 5 much radiation is in the local air, in the..water, and 6 soil, and so forth.
7 We have only spotty data, but, for 8 example, in the drinking water in Waretown, which is 9 only about three miles from the reactor, levels of 10 radiation are anywhere from two to eight times as high 11 as they are in Trenton, which is a long distance from 12 any reactor.
13 The next step. How much radiation 14 actually gets in the body. Well, until our group came 15 along a decade ago, this was a completely unknown 16 issue, how much radiation are in bodies of people 17 living near nuclear plants.
18 In the past decade, we have conducted a 19 study of Strontium 90 in baby teeth, again, Strontium 20 90 being one of these 100-plus chemicals, it's a lot 21 like calcium when it's taken into the body, it 22 attaches to the bone and the teeth, where it remains 23 for a long time.
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26 1 published in five medical journal articles, we have 2 found that after years of decline, beginning in the 3 '60s, when the nuclear test ban treaty was signed, to 4 the '70s and '80s, there was a decline in average 5 Strontium 90. But beginning in the late '80s, there 6 was a reversal, and an actual increase in the average 7 Strontium 90 in baby teeth.
8 Over five hundred of the teeth were 9 collected in New Jersey, and we found, in New Jersey, 10 if I'm allowed to, I will leave copies of these 11 charts, that from the late '80s to the late '90s, the 12 average Strontium 90 in New Jersey baby teeth doubled.
13 Okay.
14 This cannot be old bomb test fallout. It 15 can only be a current source of energy.
16 Now quickly on to health effects. In 17 terms of cancer, Ocean County has the second highest 18 cancer rate of any New Jersey county, right behind 19 Cape May county. It's 18 percent above the U.S., and 20 it's 33 percent higher for children under ten who are 21 especially sensitive to radiation.
22 Ocean County is actually a low death 23 county except for cancer. All the other major causes, 24 like respiratory. diseases, and nervous system 25 diseases, and so on, are below the U.S. but cancer is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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27 1 above. We have begun to find a linkage between 2 radiation and health, and that is that the trends in 3 Strontium 90 in baby teeth, in Ocean and Monmouth 4 county are matched, several years later, by the same 5 trends in Strontium 90.
6 The two lines, over time, would look 7 exactly the same. It's almost like comparing smoking 8 to lung cancer. My conclusion is this.
9 That before any decision is made by this 10 board, or by the NRC, to determine whether or not the 11 dryweil lining, and all the mechanical parts of Oyster 12 Creek are safe, they must take into account actual 13 emission levels of radiation, body, and local cancer 14 rates. Thank you very much.
15 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr Mangano.
16 If you want to leave that as part of a written 17 statement, you may do so with Ms. Perch out there.
18 Thank you.
19 Ms. Marianne Clemente. On deck is Ms.
20 Joyce Kuschwara.
21 MS. CLEMENTE: Hello. My name is Marianne 22 Clemente from Barnegat. I live approximately three 23 and a half miles from the power plant. I have 24 recently, within the last couple of years, got 25 involved, you know, on the periphery of the opponents NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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28 1 to relicensing the power plant.
2 What I'd like to do is read portions of 3 the factsheet that the New Jersey Public Interest 4 Research Group put out, and it basically states 5 exactly how I feel about this relicensing, much more 6 eloquently than I can write myself.
7 All right. Oyster Creek is quickly 8 approaching the end of its lifetime. The plant has 9 age-related degradation and outdated design. Oyster 10 Creek is a potential terrorist target. The population 11 in the area has more than tripled in size since the 12 plant was first built and continues to grow at one of 13 the fastest rates in the nation.
14 In the case of an accident, which becomes 15 more likely as the plant ages, or a terrorist attack, 16 evacuation is nearly impossible, as we all in Ocean 17 County have seen, especially in Barnegat, where I 18 live, with the recent fire that we had in--the forest 19 fire in Barnegat, traffic was at a standstill, and 20 that was for a very limited number of population.
21 Oyster Creek's time is up. Built in 1969, 22 Oyster Creek Nuclear Generating Station is quickly 23 approaching the end of its lifetime.
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29 1 withstand a limited number of thermal cycles.
2 Nationwide, the risks of a nuclear 3 accident have been found to increase with the age of 4 the plant. Thirty percent of recent equipment
.5 failures at nuclear plants are due, at least in part, 6 to age-related degradation.
7 Oyster Creek is currently in its "wear 8 out" phase. If Oyster Creek is allowed to operate an 9 additional 20 years, the plant will only become 10 increasingly prone to accidents.
11 If an accident were to occur at Oyster 12 Creek, and the containment system couldn't withstand 13 the pressure, the plant's design is such that the 14 public would be directly exposed to radioactive steam.
15 Oyster Creek is a security risk, is the 16 second piece.
17 Oyster Creek stores two- to three thousand 18 highly radiative spent fuel assembles in a spent fuel 19 pool located directly above the reactor. The spent 20 fuel pool and the reactor are not structurally robust 21 and are not designed to resist an aircraft attack.
22 According to Stephen Lazorchak, a 23 consulting structural engineer and former employee at 24 Oyster Creek, the impact from one 1000-pound object 25 traveling at 300 miles per hour, and hitting the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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30 1 reactor building's concrete floor near the spent pool 2 fuel, at an angle of 30 degrees above horizontal, 3 exceeds Oyster Creek's strongest floor beam capacity 4 by more than 500 percent, and the weakest beam 5 capacity by more than 8000 percent.
6 The impact of a large aircraft into the 7 reactor building's concrete floor near the spent fuel 8 pool would result in catastrophic building failure, 9 causing a water leak that would uncover the spent fuel 10 assemblies, resulting in burning fuel leaking on to 11 the floors below, damaging vital wiring and equipment 12 needed to shut down the reactor.
13 The result of a terrorist attack on Oyster 14 Creek's reactor building would exceed a Chernobyl 15 meltdown event, because there is more fuel in Oyster 16 Creek's fuel pool than there was in Chernobyl's 17 reactor.
18 The next and last point is Ocean County's 19 population continues to grow. When Oyster Creek was 20 built, Ocean County was still relatively rural. In 21 fact, because of the dangers, most nuclear power 22 plants are located in less-populated, out-of-the way 23 locations. No one can claim that Ocean County is "out 24 of the way" anymore.
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31 1 size since the plant was built, to more than half a 2 million people in 2000. During the summertime, the 3 population along, the shore typically doubles in size.
4 Population growth in Ocean County 5 continues, in fact, and it's increasing twice as fast 6 as the rest of the state and has one of the fastest 7 rates in the country.
8 If the population continues to grow at its 9 current rate, Ocean County will have more than 800,000 10 residents by nearly two7-by two thousand [sic].
11 It. is highly unlikely that the population.
12 living within a 10-mile radius of Oyster Creek would
- 13. be able to escape radioactive release. Evacuation is 14 nearly impossible.
15 Even if the evacuation plan worked 16 according to plan, it would take too long to 17 adequately protect public safety. State police 18 estimate that it will take nine and a half hours to 19 evacuate a ten mile radius during the summer, and 20 about seven hours during the winter.
21 Depending on weather patterns, radiation 22 could be released within as little as one to two hours 23 of the start of some types of accidents.
24 Making matters worse, most people living 25 anywhere close to the plant will attempt to evacuate.
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32 1 And they should. A radioactive plume won't stop at 2, the ten mile border. Clearly, the current unworkable 3 evacuation plan will only be more impossible if Oyster 4 Creek's license is extended another years.
5 I can't tell you how important it is to 6 me, personally, as a citizen of Ocean County, that 7 this plant not be relicensed.
8 I am not necessarily against nuclear 9 power. I am against the dangers that this plant 10 presents to the people of Ocean County. Thank you.
11 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank.you.
12 Ms. Joyce Kuschwara. I beg your pardon, 13 if I'm mispronouncing your name.
14 MS. KUSCHWARA: Thank you. Some of the 15 things that I'm going to say will have already been 16 said. However, I feel that it warrants being said 17 again, just to stress how important these issues are 18 to those of us who live here. I live within the ten 19 mile evacuation zone. Therefore, I really do have a 20 great concern about what is going on with this plant.
21 I do not feel the amount of attention 22 given to the corrosion and thickness of the drywell 23 liner by AmerGen is sufficient. Corrosion and 24 thinning of the barrier meant to protect us from a 25 "radiological" meltdown has me greatly concerned.
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33 1 To have us at risk of a nuclear accident 2 every two years, when the plant closes for refueling, 3 is totally irresponsible and is reason enough to deny 4 the request for continued operation of this plant.
5 I'm remembering the..people that had to 6 deal with the Hurricane Katrina. They were reassured 7 that the levees would hold and that there was no 8 danger to them. And look at what happened. We 9 couldn't evacuate them, the levees did not hold, the 10 devastation was unbelievable. Something like that 11 could happen here as well.
12 Are you going to evacuate everyone in the 13 10 mile evacuation zone before refueling as a public 14 safety measure? There is no workable evacuation plan 15 in existence.
16 I have been concerned about safety issues 17 related to the operation of this plant as far back as 18 the eighties. Conditions have worsened since that 19 time. The plant continues to be a source of pollution 20 for radioactive emissions into the atmosphere, causing 21 an increase in cancer among the population.
22 The elevated spent fuel pool, 119 feet 23 above ground, that stores highly radioactive spent 24 fuel rods, is vulnerable to a terrorist attack, houses 25 more fuel rods than the structure was built to hold, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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34 1 which was 1,800 fuel assemblies, and has been 2 increased to 2,645. The fuel rods weigh approximately 3 200 tons.
4 According to an article by John 5 Witherspoon, -and I'm quoting: "The catastrophic 6 meltdown from the spent fuel pool of a nuclear power 7 plant could cause fatal, radiation-induced cancer in 8 thousands of people as far as 500 miles from the site.
9 Those living in close proximity to the plant will be 10 prompt casualties."
11 There are so many safety and health issues 12 regarding the relicensing of this plant, far too many 13 for one person to comment on today.
14 I am not saying anything that you don't 15 already know but I do ask that you listen to what all 16 of us are telling you. We will be the ones to suffer 17 the consequences of a license renewal. Please do not 18 write us off as dispensable by ignoring our valid 19 concerns. Thank you.
20 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you very much.
21 Ms. Liz Arnone. Ms. Grace Costanzo will 22 be on deck.
23 MS. ARNONE: Thank you, sir.
24 Speaking as an ordinary concerned citizen, 25 I would like to address two particular things. The NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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35 1 preponderance of evidence by the six groups that are 2 presenting this suit is overwhelming to prove how 3 serious an issue this is. Aside from that, as 4 concerned citizens who are not technologically 5 knowledgeable about all the details, we fear, we fear.
6 We've seen what happened at Chernobyl. We've seen 7 what happened in Katrina. We've seen how our 8 Government does not respond, is not able to respond.
9 There are many flaws in the way our 10 Government operates. The bureaucracy is horrendous, 11 and since this has begun, several years ago, it's 12 already several years and we're still talking in 13 circles. It's like the dog wagging the tail or the 14 tail wagging the dog. I'm not sure which.
15 But every day that this continues, we are 16 at continued risk. We've seen how our Government 17 operates, it's very frightening to citizens in this 18 area, and as far as 500 miles away.
19 The other issue is that I believe that 20 alternative energy sources must be looked into, 21 evaluated, and implemented. We cannot continue to 22 increase the amount of depleted uranium and waste that 23 we're accumulating and leave it to generations to come 24 to resolve.
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36 1 will be the victims. It's a terrible, terrible thing 2 when corporations look at their profit margin before 3 they look at the safety and health of the people 4 around them.
5 And I think that we, as citizens, will 6 continue to step up to the plate, until corporations 7 really listen to us. And I commend the organizations 8 that have come and have served the people by bringing 9 this suit forward, and I hope that they continue, and 10 we will support them and we will shut this plant down, 11 sooner or later. Thank you.
12 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you. Mr. Richard 13 Fuller is on deck.
14 MS. COSTANZO: Hi. My name is Grace 15 Costanzo and I live a 10 mile radius of Oyster Creek, 16 and I've been at this since 2001, trying to get this 17 plant closed, which I hope we succeed.
18 Now, there are many reasons that the 19 Oyster Creek Generating Station should not be 20 relicensed. However, at this time, I want to focus on 21 the nuclear spent fuel storage, namely, the dry casks 22 sitting 400 feet from Route 9. We all know what a 23 parking lot that is. We've seen it in the last fire.
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3.7 1 radioactive than when it was put into the fuel pool.
2 The dry casks at Oyster Creek presently 3 hold tons of this deadly, highly radioactive waste.
4 There's no place on Earth, where one can confidently 5 predict that radioactiVe could remain safely isolated 6 from the environment for hundreds of thousands, or 7 millions of years. The hazard of irradiated fuel 8 will continue for millions of years.
9 Not only is the fuel pool vulnerable to an 10 attack by terrorists, but so are the dry casks.
11 The NRC--and this is a quote from the NRC-12 -contends that possibility of a terrorist attack on a 13 nuclear facility is so remote and speculative, that 14 the potential consequences of such an attack need not 15 be considered at all.
16 I beg to differ. All our nuclear plants, 17 especially Oyster Creek, are vulnerable to air 18 strikes, truck bombs, boat bombs, and well-equipped 19 and well-armed terrorists. Haven't we learned 20 anything from history?
21 The first time the Trade Center was bombed 22 was a warning. Who could even imagine that there 23 would be a second time, and thousands would die at the 24 hands of these madmen?
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38 1 radioactive spent fuel keeps piling up and none of our 2 nuclear, quote, experts, unquote, know how to dispose 3 of it safely.
4 Transporting it off site would be another 5 deadly hazard. What a temptation for the terrorists.
6 And how about an accident in transporting? Accidents 7 do happen, you know.
8 Oyster Creek will need more and more dry 9 casks to store the spent fuel and will have a cemetery 10 of deadly coffins along Route 9.
11 If the unthinkable should happen, such as 12 a terrorist attack or a catastrophe, there could be 13 hundreds of thousands of casualties and over $80 14 billion in property damage.
15 Compare this to the $12 million tax break 16 Lacey citizens get each year and will continue to get, 17 even if the plant is closed.
18 Is this worth the risk? What a horrible 19 legacy we leave for our children, grandchildren and 20 generations to come. We need to convert nuclear 21 plants to clean, safe, renewable energy such as wind, 22 solar, hydroelectric, natural gas, and other non-23 deadly sources of energy.
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39 1 have then. It's time for a change. Let's begin today 2 by closing the Oyster Creek Nuclear Generating Station 3 now. Thank you.
4 I just want to say that I object to 5 gagging some people here. I think that everybody 6 should be given the freedom to speak, because this is 7 still America, and I do believe that freedom of speech 8 is still here; but sometimes I wonder.
9 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you.
10 Mr. Richard Fuller, to will be followed by 11 Ms. Barbara McAulay.
12 MR. FULLER: Good afternoon. My name is 13 Richard Fuller. I'm a citizen of Hazlet. I'm also 14 the coordinator for the Green Party in Monmouth County 15 and I speak on their behalf.
16 Thank you, Judge, and colleagues, for this 17 opportunity to speak.
18 The Oyster Creek nuclear plant should not 19 be relicensed, for several reasons. First, our 20 country already has 70,000 plus tons of accumulated 21 waste to dispose of, with no truly safe place to store 22 it. The target waste site at Yucca Mountain has not 23 proven a safe storage site. Transporting Oyster 24 Creek's nuclear waste to Yucca Mountain, or any other 25 designated waste storage site, would be a security NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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40 1 nightmare. A terrorist attack on a truck or train 2 loaded withnuclear waste would threaten citizens, far 3 and wide, with radioactive cancer-causing poisons.
4 We should look at the Oyster Creek nuclear 5 plant as a nuclear weapon in itself. One- suicide 6 plane attack on the facility, or a missile launch upon 7 it, could have devastating consequences for New Jersey 8 citizens, our soil and our ocean waters.
9 In making a decision, we should be guided 10 by the wisdom of the European Union, which recognizes 11 the potential dangers of genetically-engineered food 12 and thereby uses the precautionary principle. Thus, 13 first do no harm and wait long and cautiously before 14 undertaking an environmentally risk-laden experiment.
15 If the same precautionary principle had 16 been applied to nuclear energy years ago, we would not 17 now be facing this relicensing decision, based on 18 Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and the age of this 19 facility, and accidents in other, less well-known 20 facilities. We must reject the relicensing plan.
21 In making a possible relicensing plan, we 22 must also be guided by the native American principle 23 of the seventh generation. When the first Americans 24 circled with their elders to make difficult choice or 25 decision, that decision had top ass the seventh NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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41 1 generation test, which meant if the issue in question 2 would negatively affect the community or the 3 environment, generations henceforth, then that issue 4 would be rejected.
5 Some of you may be old enough to recall 6 the public service video clip of the native American 7 who is sadly observing what we've done by littering 8 our shoreline with debris, our debris of discarded 9 packaging, as a tear rolled down his cheek, you 10 remember.
11 I see his tear again in what I am about to 12 say. So what about the waste products of the nuclear 13 industry that are not destined for storage?
14 As some people know, depleted uranium may 15 result from reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel. Gary 16 Null, investigative reporter and producer of such 17 nuclear-related documentaries as Fatal Fallout and 18 Friendly Fire, killing our own, has revealed again and 19 again the horrific dangers of depleted uranium.
20 Thousands of our U.S. Iraq veterans are 21 suffering from Gulf War syndrome, to say nothing of 22 untold Iraqi citizens. Depleted uranium has 23 contributed to the devastating effects of Gulf War 24 syndrome. That reprocessed or recycled nuclear waste 25 was placed into U.S. antitank ammunition which, upon NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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42 1 impact, created a cancer-causing dust that filled many 2 GI lungs.
3 The pictures and references I was on the 4 Internet last night confirmed what Gary Null has 5 stated.. That he has pictures of Iraqi children born 6 with one eye in the middle of the head, and a child 7 born with a head and no eyes, both attributed to 8 depleted uranium.
9 Considering that the half-life of depleted 10 uranium is 4.5 billion years, our armed forces have 11 poisoned the soil and nearby waters of Iraq for all 12 time.
13 I leave you with that tragic image of a 14 nuclear system gone awry. In conclusion, nuclear 15 power plants produce abundant, uncontrollable waste 16 products that have proven to be hazardous to the 17 health of people in its surrounding communications and 18 all mankind, hazardous to the environment of land, sea 19 and air for current and future generations.
20 Thank you very much.
21 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Fuller.
22 MS. McAulay to be followed by Mr. Charles 23 Hassler.
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43 1 I am with the people who spoke before me, because they 2 really have done research, they've done a lot of 3 digging and they spoke beautifully. I, on the other 4 hand, have only gone on the Internet this morning and 5 looked at some reports that were put out by Exelon.
6 I browsed a 64-page report that they put out just a 7 year ago, in May of 06, to assess the ground level 8 water for radionuclides.
9 And not surprisingly, everything came out 10 great, below levels considered dangerous by the 11 Government.
12 My only "take" on this is why is this 13 testing not done independently? Why is Exelon allowed 14 to hire the company that tests the levels of 15 radioactivity in our water? Does this make any sense?
16 It should be done independently.
17 I'm very concerned, like others, about the 18 threat assessment, both to our environment and the 19 terrorist potential threat.
20 I live in Lakewood, which is not within 21 the 10 mile radius, but two my children live in New 22 Jersey and two of my grandchildren live in New Jersey, 23 and I'd like to live here too. So I'm very concerned 24 about the safety of Oyster Creek, the corrosion of the 25 drywell, which everybody's mentioned. I'm not going NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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44 1 to repeat all those concerns.
2 The only other thing I would mention, that 3 hasn't been mentioned before, is that should the 4 judgment be that, yes, this license will be extended, 5 I think an extension of 20 years is madness, 6 especially with a 40 year old facility that is 7 becoming degraded.
8 If you agree to extend the license, off 9 the top of my head, I would say no more than five 10 years, and all testing should be done independently.
11 Thanks.
12 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you very much.
13 Mr. Hassler to be followed by Mr. Daniel, 14 I believe it's Lindy.
15 MR. HASSLER: Good afternoon. I'm here 16 today as a representative of the IBEW Local 94 to 17 offer support of relicensing Oyster Creek Generating 18 Station, a clean, safe, reliable, critical components 19 of the New Jersey electrical, energy, manufacturing 20 family.
21 I'm Charles Hassler. I'm a business agent 22 for Local 94 in Hightstown, New Jersey. Prior to my 23 assuming the current responsibilities I have, I spent 24 more than two decades working in the nuclear energy 25 industry.
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45 1 Additionally, I'm also a member of the New 2 Jersey IBEW, the umbrella organization representing 23 3 New Jersey IBEW locals, with more than 35,000 members.
4 New Jersey IBEW also is on record as 5 supporting the relicensing of the Oyster Creek 6 Generating Station.
7 Our support is based upon our 8 understanding of the findings of the NRC during the 9 relicensing effort. It is an informed, rational 10 support that comes only with our belief that the 11 safety of our members, and the public at large, will 12 be assured by the continued operation of this plant.
13 Oyster Creek Generating Station has 14 operated at 95 to 98 percent capacity, has done so 15 admirably. Any issues that have been uncovered during 16 the relicensing process have been openly and promptly 17 addressed by the operator and then corrected to a 18 standard that meets or exceeds the NRC requirements.
19 What other industry has improved the 20 standards and operating capacity in the way that it's 21 been done with the nuclear? This is truly the most 22 watched from the outside, and scrutinized from the 23 inside.
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46 1 internal evaluations in groups than any other 2 industry. This is an industry where, if you're not 3 bumping the top quartile in performance, you better 4 have a plan ready or you'll be in trouble. This is 5 the only industry that I know of that has to do a 6 voluntary shutdown before the keys are taken away, and 7 you don't get them back.
8 The output from Oyster Creek represents 9 approximately 9 percent of New Jersey's electric 10 consumption needs, producing that electricity without 11 the creation, of greenhouse gases, an important and 12 critical component to this discussion, given the 13 global warming situation.
14 In fact, a long with its sister reactors 15 at Salem and Hook Creek, these workhorses produce 52 16 percent of New Jersey's electrical needs.
17 Without this output from Oyster Creek, the 18 reliability of electric delivery to meet demand would 19 be at risk.
20 Next, America's reliance on foreign energy 21 imports continues to stress our economy, costing 22 American job and putting the middle class itself at 23 risk. Sound energy policy is in our nation's best 24 interests and nuclear energy has to have an important 25 role to play in that policy.
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47 1 Finally, we must all recognize that 2 license renewal does not come open-ended and without 3 ongoing monitoring. Safety and performance standards, 4 just as they are today, will continue for the entirety 5 of the time the plan operates.
6 If the plan falls below acceptable 7 standards, I and my members will be among the first to 8 speak out, and if ever a major safety issue arises in 9 the future, we can all be assured that the NRC has the 10 ultimate power to come in, take away the keys, shut 11 the doors and close the plant. Thank you.
12 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you. On deck is Ms.
13 Jane DeMarzo.
14 MR. LUNDY: Hi. My name is Dan Lundy.
15 I'm here on behalf of myself and many of my neighbors 16 on Long Beach Island.
17 We've had two recent experiences where the 18 Government agencies let us down on a question of 19 safety. One, the beach replenishment that we've had 20 resulted in more than one thousand items, and possibly 21 danger ordnance, and closed our beaches until last 22 week.
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48 1 of 2500 people.
2 We've seen the Corps of Engineers and the 3 Department of Environmental Protection squabble over 4 the entire replenishment program. We're not confident 5 that assurances we get will be adequate. We see a 6 redux of FEMA and Hurricane Katrina, and the homeland 7 security aftermath of 9/11, as to the effectiveness of 8 intragovernmental operations. We ask you to connect 9 the dots, please, among the different agencies 10 involved, among the different parties at interest 11 here, special interests, the employees, corporation, 12 and the town that receives these big tax breaks, 13 against the citizens at large and their safety.
14 Many of us firmly believe in the 15 importance of nuclear power, but our concerns are that 16 this is the wrong plant in the wrong place at the 17 wrong time. The plant has a Mark One reactor, which 18 I understand is of obsolete design. Its safety record 19 has been besmirched by operational errors and it is 20 ranked in the lowest third of the 103 plants operating 21 throughout the country.
22 It's in the wrong place, located in a 23 population center of almost 600,000 people. The means 24 of egress are wholly inadequate, and everyone I know 25 admits this. The spent fuel pool, located 100 feet NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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49 1 above ground, and being close to the ocean, in an area 2 that cannot be made a no-fly zone, it is extremely 3 vulnerable to terrorist attack.
4 On LBI, Long Beach Island, ten miles south 5 of here, we get more than 250,000 people staying with 6 us in the summertime. In the event of a catastrophe, 7 we would be trapped. We're told that you cannot 8 consider vulnerability to terrorist attack and 9 inadequacy of egress in determining to relicense for 10 another 20 years.
11 Gentlemen, you are avoiding the "elephant 12 in the kitchen." Terrorist and egress. And as an 13 affected citizen, I am upset.
14 MS. MARSH SAX: My name is Gail Marsh Sax, 15 and I'm a local citizen here, and I realize it's after 16 lunch and everybody's tired, but it really is 17 inappropriate for one of you to sit there and have 18 your eyes closed so much of the time. It gives one 19 the impression that perhaps you're not hearing us.
20 Thank you.
21 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you. Ms. Jane 22 DeMarzo, to be followed by Mr. Ben Mukherjef.
23 MS. DeMARZO: I'm a resident Barnegat, New 24 Jersey, which is within the ten mile radius.
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50 1 does in a court of law. I believe that. the concerned 2 citizens have, and are continuing to present facts 3 that lead to reasonable doubt as to the ability of a 4 40-year-old facility to maintain a safe and secure 5 level of energy production over the next 40 years.
6 You gentlemen have in your hands the 7 ability to save our future, the future of New Jersey, 8 the future of atomic energy, the future of our 9 country.
10 There will be no one to say you're sorry 11 to, after a disaster happens. Thank you. Just 12 remember--reasonable doubt.
13 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you.
14 Mr. Ben Mukherjef, to be followed by Ms.
15 Jeffrey Brown.
16 MR. MUKHERJEF: I live within one mile .of 17 the tower. Every time this blinks, I can hear, see in 18 my living room, that plant. I heard all about it.
19 I've been living--well, by the way, I'm living in, 20 since 1999. I used to live in Montclair. We moved.
21 What I heard is I think a lot of confusing 22 information's been given to the people, and I'm one of 23 them.
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51 1 engineer, by profession. Thirty-five years I work as 2 a civil engineer. I know more about this thing 3 because I built some of them, and I know about the 4 liner because I work the thickness of liner measured 5 by the, you know, different widths. So all the 6 information gone--is that correct? Never got good 7 information. We need the good information.
8 Design criteria, drywell. And needless to 9 say, we need electricity, all the gadgets coming in.
10 Where are you going to get the power? We are not only 11 doing nuclear. There are other country. France.
12 China building forty nuclear. India building nuclear 13 power plant. Thereare safe way of doing it. Don't 14 tell that cannot be done; but there is safe way of 15 doing it. That's one.
16 Second point. What the plant has done, 17 nobody had mentioned that, because they don't know, 18 they don't live there. Because I live there. They 19 have dredged that river, South River, three, four 20 years ago, making it deep, make it impossible for us 21 navigate any our boat, because they deepen it up and 22 push the muck both sides. And I can't get my boat 23 out.
24 I bought a boat. It's sitting there. So 25 these two points I have. First, we need the correct NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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52 1 information, not the ambiguous information with 2 thickness, seepage, this and that. The NRC should do 3 it. Because I work for FERC, the sister department of 4 nuclear. FERC is Federal Energy Regulatory 5 Commission. We did license dam and other aspect.
6 So my point here is two things. One, we 7 need the correct information from this Agency, they 8 are supposed to give it to the citizens, and second, 9 what they have done to the river. I can't get my boat 10 out at this point. Those are the two things I have.
11 Thank you very much.
12 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you.
13 Mr. Brown, to be followed by Joan Finn.
14 MR. BROWN: Gentlemen, I was disappointed 15 to hear that you're not going to give answers, because 16 I signed up hoping to get a question answered, and the 17 question I had was what could you possibly hope to 18 gain from us today.
19 The context, as I understand it, is that 20 you have spent months narrowing the citizens efforts 21 to bring several contentions down to a very highly 22 technical, very narrow issue of the drywell liner, and 23 there's been a stable of lawyers in the NRC that have 24 fought our lawyer.
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53 1 AmerGen/Exelon, a multibillion company, fighting our 2 lawyers. It required us to dog into our pockets for 3 expert advice of engineers, into the *thousands of 4 dollars, to have a presence before your board.
5 And you're judges. So I can't understand 6 if this is a judiciary process, what you're letting 7 yourself be contaminated for. From public opinion?
8 Is there really some expert advice that you think will 9 come out of the grassroots. I'm very confused by 10 that. It seems to be--I don't know if that's an 11 intention, to confuse us, but it seems very 12 contradictory to the judicial process.
13 I was at the meeting last week of the NRC, 14 the safety exit meeting also. I heard Mr. Conte of 15 the NRC become Mr. Kante when Mr. Webster asked him, 16 What are the figures that you used to determine that 17 the drywell liner is currently operating safety? and 18 he could not produce those figures.
19 So again, we have the possibility that the 20 plant is currently in violation of its own standards 21 for operation, if it's 9 square feet versus one square 22 foot, or whatever the thickness is, etcetera, and to 23 date, as far as I know, we still have not gotten the 24 raw data, the figures upon which the NRC engineers 25 calculated that this plant, for this year, is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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54 1 currently operating safely.
2 It's not convincing.
3 We have discovered in the process of the 4 contention, that AmerGen has repeatedly violated 5 commitments. They knew that they had the wrong data, 6 the 1996 UT tests. They relied on it to make reports.
7 They promised to monitor the water. They did not 8 monitor the water. They found water. They dumped it.
9 They promised they're not going to do it again.
10 It's not credible, and so we need you to 11 take seriously our concerns. We're not just a bunch 12 of emotional people. We've studied the facts. We 13 find a lot of inconsistencies. We find, it seems, 14 that the NRC is there to facilitate the continued 15 operation of this plant as opposed to protect us and 16 to regulate it.
17 And I close by agreeing with the prior 18 speaker who said that it makes no sense not to let 19 people speak in this country. None of the people that 20 have been excluded from speaking today have spoken 21 before you. Only our lawyer has spoken before you and 22 it seems to me extremely un-American to tell these 23 people that they cannot speak. Thank you.
24 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Brown. Ms.
25 Finn, to be followed by Michele Donato.
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55 1 MS. FINN: Thank you. I live in Waretown 2 for the past year, and I can echo some of the concerns 3 of the people who've spoken so far, one of which the 4 position of the pool that carries the waste, and the 5 other is the condition of the drywell.
6 I have a third concern, and that's to what 7 extent is NRC really responsible for the people in the 8 environment? NRC has messed up several times. One 9 time in 1997, to '92, I heard it from Senator Connors-10 -it was 1982, rather--I heard from Senator Connors, 11 who used to be the head of the freeholders, that there 12 was something wrong with the pool that needed to be 13 investigated.
14 When they asked for investigation or 15 inspection, they were given a part-time inspection.
16 They said no, we need a 24-hour inspection; it could 17 be dangerous.
18 It took a call and a letter and a request 19 to then Jimmy Carter, president, who's a nuclear 20 scientist, nuclear physicist, to say no, we will have 21 a 24-hour inspection. At that time they found out 22 that the pool of water was 18 feet down and it was in 23 a dangerous condition. That the backup water was also 24 broken. Had that not been inspected, 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br />, there 25 would have been a meltdown.
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56 1 Now in whose purview is the care, 2 condition of the people, the welfare of the people and 3 the welfare of the environment? It is not in NRC's, 4 let's face it, and let's not--you know, there's an 5 "elephant in the living room...let's admit it. And 6 who, then, is going to inspect?
7 Well, look at the drywell. I asked at a 8 recent meeting of the Environmental Protection Agency, 9 a Lisa Jackson. I said, How about the drywell? It 10 hasn't been measured since '96. Her basic answer:
11 It's essentially not measurable.
12 Now I echo that women who spoke before.
13 Her concern is reasonable doubt. The main piece here 14 for me is where is the morality in this? If NRC 15 doesn't stand for the people and the environment, who 16 does? We do. We have a right to our own integrity, 17 not just the people on the island, not just the people 18 in Waretown.
19 There's a principle here. We live in a 20 society that opts for life. If a 2-year-old child 21 falls down a well, we use all the human power we can, 22 in the hope that she's alive. Shouldn't the reverse 23 be true if there's a chance of death? Thank you.
24 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you. Nick Morale is 25 on deck.
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57 1 MS. DONATO: My name is Michele Donato.
2 I live in Ocean County and I'm a practicing attorney 3 as well; but I'm here on my own behalf.
4 And I'm here because I recognize that this 5 particular body of individuals has the ability to help 6 us to get to the truth of the situation that confronts 7 us.
8 When the citizen groups filed the 9 contention with the NRC regarding this bathtub ring of 10 corrosion in the drywell, at that point all that we 11 knew was that it had been identified, and the citizens 12 also knew that it hadn't been monitored, as would have 13 been required by the NRC.
14 So we recognized that the system had 15 failed in keeping up with this very, very critical 16 aspect of the plant.
17 Since then, the citizens have really been 18 fighting to get information and it's somewhat 19 appalling, that at this stage of the game, for the 20 bathtub ring itself, it's about 500 square feet of 21 area, and AmerGen has tested one percent of that area 22 only. One percent. 99 percent is unknown.
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58 1 below the critical safety margin of .736, thus 2 violating the plant's own current safety licensing 3 basis.
4 So not only do they not have an ability to 5 age manage this corrosion for the next 20 years, they 6 don't meet it right now, and how can we ever conclude 7 that they can manage something, that we don't know 8 what they're managing? 99 percent of it is unknown.
9 How can this possibly be in this tightly regulated 10 system? How can this possibly be?
11 It is because the NRC and the industry 12 work hand in glove. The NRC doesn't understand its 13 mission. The NRC thinks it is here to promote nuclear 14 power. The NRC is here to regulate. The Agency was 15 separated, specifically, because of the fact that it 16 had a confusion in its mission, and that confusion 17 continues to this day.
18 We do not have independent regulatory 19 control. The citizens in this room have little say.
20 Our congressional delegation has little say.
21 The congressional delegation convinced the 22 NRC that there should be an independent scientific 23 evaluation of the drywell issue, and the NRC obtained 24 the services of Sandia National Laboratories, a well-25 know, well-respected group of scientists.
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59 1 Sandia looked at the measurements, looked 2 at the mathematics modeling that had been conducted by 3 Exelon, and said this is incorrect. You're double-4 counting safety factors. The hoop factor. They're 5 taking it into account more than once.
6 So the drywell is less than what Exelon 7 would like us to believe. And what does the NRC do?
8 They ignore their own scientific evaluation. They 9 ignore the congressional delegation's request for 10 independent evaluation.
11 You cannot ignore it. You have got to 12 stand up for this. You are judges. I see you are all 13 administrative judges. And I trust that you will have 14 the objectivity and the fairness to evaluate this 15 data, and realize less than one percent of the 16 corroded region that they have identified has been 17 measured. What about what they haven't even looked at 18 at all? Can you really hang your hat on that? Can 19 you really let this entire state be subjected to that 20 danger, with that minuscule amount of data in support?
21 I close by quoting from the CEO of Exelon 22 who stated: "License renewal has become a routine 23 undertaking. License extension will enable us to 24 extract value for our customers, far in excess of what 25 we imagined ten to fifteen years ago."
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60 1 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Ms. Donato.
2 Mr. Morales. On deck is Mr. Jim 3 LeTellier.
4 MR. MORALES: Hi. My name is Nick 5 Morales. I'm here representing myself, my little 6 brother who's in the audience, and my family. We're 7 long-standing residents of Lavalette which is out on 8 the barrier island. It's just about ten miles past 9 the Oyster Creek zone, and our family owns a small 10 business there, it depends on summer tourists coming 11 in and purchasing goods, and those summer tourists 12 come because of our beautiful ocean and our beautiful 13 bay and the beautiful scenery around here.
14 And all of that is at stake if this 15 critical radiation should fail and should poison what 16 we love to call the Jersey Shore around here. So 17 there's a lot of uncertainty over what assumptions to 18 use, what data, where to draw the line as to what is 19 safe and what is not safe.
20 But when you look at both sides, when you 21 compare what Oyster Creek has said and what the 22 community groups have said, you have to conclude that 23 there has been no proof that the drywell meets the 24 minimum safety operating standards so far.
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61 1 so little of that actual corroded barrier has been 2 tested. There's just so much that we don't know right 3 now, that we can't draw any firm conclusions in the 4 positive to say that it's safe.
5 It's a critical radiation barrier that 6 Oyster Creek has repeatedly said was safe, yet, at the 7 insistence of community groups and our neighborhood 8 law clinic have demanded testing, and found that there 9 were significantly corroded areas and potential 10 problems.
11 Oyster Creek will continue to avoid and 12 dodge, and insist upon the minimum amount of testing, 13 and a minimum frequency of testing. But it's NRC's 14 job to stand there and protect the interests of our 15 public health and safety.
16 So as i said before, there is a lot at 17 stake here if that barrier should fail, and I humbly 18 ask you to err on the side of caution and require 19 frequent and thorough testing of the barrier. Thank 20 you.
21 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Morales.
22 MS. CLEMENTE: I don't want anybody to 23 think I'm schizophrenic but Jim LeTellier had to 24 respectfully leave you, was called away. So I didn't 25 want his name to go unnoticed.
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62 1 JUDGE HAWKINS: All right. Thank you.
2 No. I would have been waiting for him for probably 3 quite some time. Thank you very much.
4 Mr. Ed Stroup.
5 MR. STROUP: Good afternoon My name is 6 Edward Stroup and I thank you for the opportunity to 7 speak about what a good plant Oyster Creek is, and why 8 it should be quickly relicensed.
9 For the record, I and my family live close 10 to the plant. I speak today as a private citizen.
11 At Oyster Creek, in the early 1980's, 12 some small leaks in a refueling liner were found, and 13 those coupled with an improperly functioning rough 14 drain led to some corrosion of the drywell shell.
15 This leakage no longer affects the drywell.
16 Refueling cavity liner is now temporarily 17 covered during refueling outages with materials that 18 minimize leakage.
19 The trough drain below the reactor cavity 20 has been improved, so that any minor leakage now 21 enters the drain.
22 This drain is monitored daily during 23 refueling outages. Also, all sand was removed from 24 the sandbed region in 1992, and the sandbed drains 25 were cleaned, the sandbed floor was improved to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.j N.W.
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63 1 promote drainage, should any water enter the region.
2 Finally, a multilayer of epoxy coating was 3 applied to the exterior of the drywell shell to 4 prevent further corrosion. Oyster Creek has performed 5 ultrasonic inspections of both the upper and sandbed-6 regions of the drywell during the recent 2006 7 refueling outage..
8 Those results confirm that the drywell 9 shell was thick enough to meet design requirements.
10 In short, the measurements confirm the integrity of 11 the drywell shell.
12 It should also be noted that the interior 13 of the drywell is not a corrosive environment.
14 Corrosion during plant operations is expected to be 15 almost nonexistent since the drywell operates inerted 16 with nitrogen and no oxygen is present to drive the 17 corrosion reaction.
18 Now more than ever, America and New Jersey 19 needs safe, clean, reliable nuclear power. Reliable 20 electricity that we have counted on for 40 years.
21 Safe power that we can count on for 20 more years.
22 Please relicense Oyster Creek quickly.
23 It's in everybody's best interests. Thank you.
24 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you very much.
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64 1 anybody here who did not register but would 2 nevertheless like to register and then come back and 3 speak to us? I'm afraid, consistent with the 4 regulations, we may not permit that.
5 Ms. Donato.
6 MS. DONATO: I don't understand why Mr.
7 Stroup, who just presented AmerGen and Exelon data to 8 this group, is allowed to speak, and yet another a 9 citizen is not allowed to speak. I mean, can't she 10 speak as an individual? I mean, he gave data that 11 only somebody inside the plant would know.
12 I don't understand why somebody like Janet 13 Tauro cannot speak. I mean, I know that this was, as 14 I understand it from reading the information, that the 15 exclusion of the public from this process was at the 16 urging of Exelon as opposed to this group's choice.
17 But it just doesn't seem fair to me, I mean, that Mr.
18 Stroup, and that the union representative can come up, 19 but Mr. Stroup, in particular, because he gave you.
20 information that came from the plant.
21 I just don't think it's fair and I think 22 you're in a difficult position, but I just--I can 23 understand the sense that there's truth to be stated 24 and I know that Exelon doesn't want the truth, but we 25 suspect that you do and we hope that you do.
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65 1 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Ms. Donato.
2 Anybody else? I suspect Mr. Stroup wants 3 a rebuttal.
4 MR. STROUP: Would you indulge me for a 5 minute.
.6 JUDGE HAWKINS: You may.come forward and 7 you may have a minute, although you need not take the 8 entire time; but you're welcome to take it.
9 MR. STROUP: I'll be brief. I'd just like 10 to say that I'm here as a private citizen, not 11 testifying on behalf of anybody other than myself 12 today, and I note that the--Ms. Donato, Mrs. Donato, 13 who just spoke about me, has been involved in this 14 process every step and every turn, as much as I have.
15 She's involved with the people, in great depth, whose 16 only agenda is to close Oyster Creek and end all 17 nuclear power. She has worked with them at every turn 18 and every step, and she was afforded the opportunity 19 to speak as a private individual.
20 I think there are people here, today, that 21 are trying to make an issue out of a nonissue, and I 22 think that's just what we heard from the opposition.
23 Thank you.
24 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you very much.
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66 1 *may have a late-arriving speaker. Ms. Carol Birns.
2 MS. BIRNS: I'm a grandmother, I have 3 grandchildren, and I don't live within the ten mile 4 radius but I live in Marlton, but my grandkids, they 5 have a house in Forked River and they come here on 6 weekends.
7 I agree with everything that has been said 8 here about the safety factors, from everything I've 9 read, there seem to be great problems with that.
10 I just don't understand why they want to 11 extend the life of this plant. I understand that it 12 was extended five years already. I read that it was 13 extended five years ago, that the original life of the 14 plant was supposed to be 35 years, and they extended 15 it to forty. Why do want to extend it for another 20 16 years?
17 The new plants, from everything I've read, 18 and we're going to have like 30 more nuclear plants, 19 are supposed to be much safer. You know, they say 20 don't worry about it, the new plants are much safer.
21 I would not take a 40-year-old car and 22 drive it across country. I'd rather have my fairly 23 new Honda than a 40-year-old Rolls Royce, much less a 24 60-year-old Rolls Royce. The new cars are better.
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67 1 is my big worry. A couple of blocks from the Pentagon 2 at 9/11 and I know there was gridlock. You cannot get 3 out. There was smoke all over; but that's okay. It 4 was not nuclear. But if it's nuclear, what are you 5 going to do?
6 Have you ever driven up Route 9 on an 7 ordinary day? Has there been a study of evacuation 8 route? has there been any new roads built since this 9 nuclear power plant was built? None that I know of.
10 And that's all I have to say. Thank you.
11 JUDGE HAWKINS: That's quite a bit, and 12 we'll let you have the last word, Mrs. Birns.
13 I thank everybody for coming and for 14 presenting their well-researched and, clearly, 15 strongly-held views.
16 It's 3:37. In our effort to be inclusive, 17 we will certain permit her to register at this time 18 and speak. I apologize, Mrs. Birns.
19 The board is prepared to be here for the 20 full two hours, so you need not be sorry. One second, 21 please. Let's get your name.
22 Helen Mahtaban.
23 MS. MAHTABAN: Helen Mahtaban.
24 JUDGE HAWKINS: Mahtaban.
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68 1 affiliated with anyone. I thought this would be a 2 question-and-answer situation. So I went into the 3 library yesterday to "bone up" onjmy nuclear physics 4 and on understanding what the structure is that we're 5 talking about, and I realized, even though my son is 6 a structural engineer, I couldn't accumulate all that 7 knowledge in. one day.
8 But I did come across a few documents, 9 one, the Sandia report, which was an independent study 10 commissioned by the NRC, and the title of the report 11 is to study the degradation, the amount of degradation 12 of the drywell liner. A priori, they admit there's 13 degradation.
14 Now, to me, in the first lien of a safety 15 structure of a nuclear plant, there should be no 16 degradation. There shouldn't be quibbling about 17 whether it's .5 or point whatever. There should be no 18 degradation in the first outpost, in the first safety 19 structure that's containing the nuclear reaction; 20 okay.
.21 But then, of course, the second line of 22 defense, or the final line of defense, is the 23 containment structure, the concrete thing that 24 surrounds.
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69 1 first of its kind. It's a Mark One boiling water 2 reactor, which in 1972, was determined never to be 3 licensed again. That type of design was never to be 4 licensed again because they found flaws in the actual 5 containment structure.
6 We're talking about the final line of 7 defense has. a great flaw, so most of the plants were 8 retrofitted in 1972 by a system which allowed direct 9 venting of any build up of steam, radioactive steam 10 which escaped any other safety structure, allows the 11 direct venting of steam, radioactive steam into the 12 environment, unfiltered and directly, to prevent 13 rupture of the containment structure.
14 So instead of what people like to call a 15 redundancy of safety features, we have two of the most 16 vital safety structures of that plant to be not 17 redundant but deficient; both of them. So that if the 18 drywell liner breaches under a catastrophic condition, 19 which is when we want our safety structures to 20 function, we don't care if they mishap here or there, 21 but when there's a catastrophic problem, we want it to 22 function then. That's when we need it. Sorry. I'm 23 a little nervous.
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70 1 recognized degradation of the primary safety structure 2 of the plant, there is also a problem with the very 3 design of the final containment structure of the 4 plant.
5 What we have are two deficient ..safety 6 structures in that plant. One of them has to be a 100 7 percent for us to feel safe. And safe, reliable 8 energy? I don't think so. Thank you.
9 JUDGE HAWKINS: Thank you, Ms. Mahtaban.
10 MS. CLEMENTE: Marianne Clemente from 11 Barnegat. This is the third. time I'm up here. Twice 12 as Marianne and once as Jim. Can I just ask a 13 question? Are you judges going to be taking under 14 advisement everything that has been stated here, in 15 your determination on this relicensing? Is that--
16 JUDGE HAWKINS: I don't know if you were 17 here at the outset but I explained what is done with 18 this. We do not look at this as part of the 19 evidentiary record. The parties to the litigation 20 make the evidentiary record, they're the master of 21 their case, and that's what we consider.
22 They make their case, we consider the 23 record they make, the testimony they put forward, the 24 evidence they put, and the arguments they make, based 25 on the record they create.
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71 1 MS. CLEMENTE: So what is the purpose for 2 us all coming out here today to speak?
3 JUDGE HAWKINS: Again--and I'm reluctant 4 to answer because--
5 MS. CLEMENTE: I was there. Maybe I 6 didn't understand it. Maybe I didn't understand what 7 you said.
8 JUDGE HAWKINS: But I will repeat what I 9 said earlier. The regulations provide for the limited 10 appearance session, and it's because it allows 11 individuals who are not parties but may have a very 12 significant interest, as everybody here has shown, in 13 the issues involved in the litigation, and the 14 testimony--not the testimony--the statements that are 15 made are transcribed, they're considered by the 16 parties who are in attendance, they're considered by 17 the judges, and they're made part of the official 18 docket in this particular case.
19 MS. CLEMENTE: So it will be used in--
20 JUDGE HAWKINS: To the extent anything has 21 been said that a counsel here, who represents the 22 parties, feels should be introduced as part of the 23 evidentiary record for the litigation.
24 MS. CLEMENTE: Okay. I'm not a lawyer, so 25 I don't understand--
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72 1 JUDGE HAWKINS- I appreciate that. And 2 before we close, I believe Judge Abramson had a 3 comment that he wanted to make.
4 JUDGE ABRAMSON: I think this follows up 5 on your. last question, and on a question we had 6 earlier. It's important to recognize that we're 7 judges, not part of the NRC staff, we don't take 8 marching orders from the commissioners. Our job is 9 very narrow, and that is, our job is to adjudicate 10 this question about the corrosion in the drywell liner 11 that's-been put before us.
12 Your comments are not in the record of 13 this litigation. If you have information that's 14 useful to that litigation, then you should make sure 15 that information gets to the parties to the 16 litigation.
17 The purpose of these limited appearance 18 statements is to allow, as public citizens, as Judge 19 Hawkins said, to make your comments. We would have 20 hoped they would have been focused on this issue. We 21 do not make policy for the Commission. We do not make 22 policy for the Government. We are simply judges who 23 will adjudicate the particular issue that's in front 24 of us.
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73 1 transcript of your comments, and if you are interested 2 in trying to influence policy, then you should.contact 3 the Commission itself and suggest that they go look at 4 your comments.
5 JUDGE HAWKINS: We have another session 6 scheduled for this evening, from 7:00 to 9:00. This 7 concludes the limited appearance session for this 8 afternoon. Thank you very much.
9 [Whereupon, at 3:43 p.m., the session was 10 concluded.]
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CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Oyster Creek Nuclear Limited Appearance Docket Number: 50-219-LR Location: Toms River, New Jersey were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
Christine Bunting Official Reporter Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.
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