ML21203A312
| ML21203A312 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 07/22/2021 |
| From: | Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards |
| To: | |
| Wang W | |
| References | |
| NRC-1581 | |
| Download: ML21203A312 (44) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards Kairos Power Licensing Subcommittee Open Session Docket Number:
(n/a)
Location:
teleconference Date:
Tuesday, July 6, 2021 Work Order No.:
NRC-1581 Pages 1-34 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1
1 2
3 DISCLAIMER 4
5 6
UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSIONS 7
ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS 8
9 10 The contents of this transcript of the 11 proceeding of the United States Nuclear Regulatory 12 Commission Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards, 13 as reported herein, is a record of the discussions 14 recorded at the meeting.
15 16 This transcript has not been reviewed, 17 corrected, and edited, and it may contain 18 inaccuracies.
19 20 21 22 23
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
+ + + + +
3 ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS 4
(ACRS) 5
+ + + + +
6 KAIROS POWER LICENSING SUBCOMMITTEE 7
+ + + + +
8 TUESDAY 9
JULY 6, 2021 10
+ + + + +
11 The Subcommittee met via Teleconference, 12 at 1:00 p.m. EDT, David A. Petti, Chair, presiding.
13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS:
14 DAVID A. PETTI, Chair 15 RONALD G. BALLINGER, Member 16 VICKI M. BIER, Member 17 DENNIS BLEY, Member 18 CHARLES H. BROWN, JR., Member 19 VESNA B. DIMITRIJEVIC, Member 20 GREGORY H. HALNON, Member 21 WALTER L. KIRCHNER, Member 22 JOSE MARCH-LEUBA, Member 23 JOY L. REMPE, Member 24 MATTHEW W. SUNSERI, Member 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 ACRS CONSULTANTS:
1 MICHAEL L. CORRADINI 2
4 DESIGNATED FEDERAL OFFICIAL:
5 WEIDONG WANG 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 CONTENTS 1
ACRS Chairman Introductory Remarks 4
2 NRC Staff Introductory Remarks 6
3 Overview of Kairos Power FHR and Program 4
Development................
9 5
Overview of Fuel Performance Topical Report 6
Public Comment
................. 33 7
8 9
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4 P R O C E E D I N G S 1
(1:00 p.m.)
2 CHAIR PETTI: The meeting will now come to 3
order. This is a meeting of the Kairos Power 4
Licensing Subcommittee of the Advisory Committee on 5
Reactor Safeguards. I am David Petti, chairman of 6
today's subcommittee meeting.
7 ACRS members in attendance are Charles 8
Brown, Walt Kirchner, Joy Rempe, Matt Sunseri, Vicki 9
Bier, Greg Halnon, Jose March-Leuba, Dennis Bley, 10 Consultant Mike Corradini, Member Ron Ballinger, 11 Consultant Stephen Schultz, Member Vesna Dimitrijevic.
12 Weidong Wang of the ACRS staff is the Designated 13 Federal Official for the meeting.
14 During today's meeting, the subcommittee 15 will review and assess staff's safety evaluation on 16 Kairos Power KP-FHR Fuel Methodology Topical Report, 17 Revision 3. The subcommittee will hear presentations 18 by and hold discussions with the NRC staff, Kairos 19 Power representatives, and other interested persons 20 regarding this matter.
21 The part of the presentations by the 22 applicant and the NRC staff may be closed in order to 23 discuss information that is proprietary to the 24 licensee and its contractors pursuant to 5 U.S.C.
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5 552(b)(c)(4).
1 Attendance at the meeting that deals with 2
such information will be limited to the NRC staff and 3
its consultants, Kairos Power, and those individuals 4
and organizations who have entered into an appropriate 5
confidentiality agreement with them. Consequently, 6
we need to confirm that we only have eligible 7
observers and participants in the closed part of the 8
meeting.
9 The rules of participation in all ACRS 10 meetings, including today's, were announced in the 11 Federal Register on June 13th, 2019. The ACRS section 12 of the U.S. NRC public website provides that chatter, 13 bylaws, agendas, letter reports, and full transcripts 14 of all full and subcommittee meetings including the 15 slides presented here.
16 The meeting notice and agenda for this 17 meeting were posted there. We have received no 18 written comments or requests to make an oral statement 19 from the public.
20 The subcommittee will gather information, 21 analyze relevant issues and facts, and formulate 22 proposed positions and actions as appropriate for 23 deliberation by the full committee. The rules for 24 participation in today's meeting have been announced 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 as part of the notice of this meeting previously 1
published in the Federal Register.
2 A transcript of the meeting is being kept 3
and will be made available as stated in the Federal 4
Register Notice.
5 Due to the COVID pandemic, today's meeting 6
is being held over Microsoft Teams for ACRS, NRC 7
staff, and the licensee attendees. There is also a 8
telephone bridge line allowing participation of the 9
public over the phone.
10 When addressing the subcommittee, the 11 participants should first identify themselves and 12 speak with sufficient clarity and volume so they may 13 be readily heard. When not speaking, we request that 14 participants mute their computer microphone or phone.
15 With that, we'll now proceed with the 16 meeting and I'd like to start by calling up NRC Staff, 17 Sam.
18 MR. CUADRADO DE JESUS: Yes, good 19 afternoon. I'll be covering for Stu Magruder, the 20 program manager who is not available this week. I 21 believe for the technical staff we'll have my branch 22 chief, William Kennedy, Duke, making some introductory 23 remarks.
24 Duke, are you there?
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7 MR. KENNEDY: Yes, I'm here. Okay, well, 1
good afternoon, everyone. I'd like to give a few 2
introductory remarks here.
3 Again, my name is William Kennedy. I'm 4
the acting branch chief of the Advance Reactor 5
Licensing Branch. So the staff is looking forward to 6
discussions with and feedback from the ACRS members 7
today on the draft safety evaluation for the Kairos 8
Power topical report, KP-HFR field performance 9
methodology.
10 And as you'll hear, this topical report is 11 important for Kairos' safety case and is related to 12 other topical reports such as the mechanistic source 13 term and field qualification reports.
14 Note that this meeting is the third time 15 the staff and Kairos Power have had the opportunity to 16 brief the ACRS on Kairos' topical reports and staff 17 has appreciated the helpful comments from the ACRS on 18 topical reports covering the reactor coolant, scaling 19 methodology, and licensing modernization project 20 implementation.
21 The staff looks forward to working with 22 Chairman Petti and the rest of the members and staff 23 over the next several years as we complete reviews of 24 more Kairos Power topical reports and prepare for 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 license applications for facilities that we use the 1
Kairos Power design.
2 I'd just like to highlight that the 3
working relationship between NRC staff and Kairos has 4
been excellent and similar to previous reviews of 5
Kairos Power topical reports, we've used public 6
meetings as a means for addressing technical issues 7
without the need for many requests for additional 8
information.
9 And finally, I'd just like to say thank 10 you to the technical staff from the Advanced Reactor 11 Technical Branch for their efforts to produce a high 12 quality draft safety evaluation and also thanks to the 13 staff from the Office of Research for their valuable 14 support. So that concludes my introductory remarks.
15 Thanks, Sam.
16 MR. CUADRADO DE JESUS: Yes, you are 17 welcome. Thank you, Duke.
18 I also want to say that for the closed 19 portion of the meeting, we'll have the tech staff give 20 the presentation. That will be Jeff Schmidt, who is 21 the lead for the topical report review, and we'll also 22 have a report from Boyce Travis and Antonio Barrett.
23 That's for the closed portion of the meeting.
24 Back to Kairos. Thank you.
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9 MR. TOMKINS: Okay, this is Jim Tomkins 1
from Kairos Power. And we have a couple of 2
presentations we're going to do today. Micah Hackett 3
will be presenting an overview of Kairos, our design, 4
and topical report. And Blaise Collin, during the 5
closed session will be talking in detail about the 6
topical report.
7 So we welcome this opportunity. We're 8
interested in feedback. And I will say we intend to 9
use this topical report both for our Hermes reactor 10 and for eventual full size KP-FHR. So this is very 11 important to us and very important to the safety case 12 for Kairos Power.
13 With that, I'm going to turn it over to 14 Micah Hackett who is our director of fuels and he's 15 going to provide an opening.
16 MR. HACKETT: Thank you, Jim. I'm going 17 to start with Kairos Power's mission statement which 18 is to enable the world's transition to clean energy, 19 with the ultimate goal to dramatically improving 20 people's quality of life while protecting the 21 environment.
22 While many of you are probably familiar 23 already, and I understand there are a few new 24 committee members who may not have a
full 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 understanding, so I'll quickly go through some 1
background on the fluoride salt-cooled, high 2
temperature reactor concept.
3 It is a pebble bed reactor. A pebble bed 4
reactor is based on the TRISO fuel particle. I 5
believe all of you are familiar already, but we are 6
planning to use a UCO or uranium oxycarbide kernel.
7 The kernel is then surrounded by a number of layers of 8
pyrolytic carbon and silicon carbide. And this forms 9
the basis of a fuel form that through the AGR program 10 has demonstrated the ability to retain fission 11 products and be very robust even in accident 12 conditions.
13 This TRISO fuel particle is then contained 14 with an annular pebble and I will show that sign in a 15 later slide here. We're coupling that TRISO fuel 16 technology with a liquid fluoride self coolant, the 17 same coolant used as the base in the liquid fuel MSRE 18 reactor demonstrated at Oak Ridge National Laboratory.
19 This is the lithium fluoride beryllium fluoride 20 coolant that will enable us to have a low pressure 21 reactor system. We do not need to pressurize the 22 reactor in order to maintain the coolant and the fuel.
23 And all of these are technologies that have been 24 demonstrated in some part or fashion through other 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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11 reactor technologies and what is unique is that Kairos 1
is combining three different technology sets into a 2
new reactor design concept.
3 I want to spend a moment talking through 4
some of our recent progress and highlights. Kairos 5
started at the end of 2016. By 2018, we had built out 6
an entire office and laboratory in Alameda, California 7
that became our rapid prototyping and technology 8
development facility. This facility has allowed us to 9
be able to use water-based experiments, high 10 temperature oil-based experiments as surrogates for 11 many of the different systems and components that we 12 wanted to test the design for a full scale reactor 13 program. But we have learned a great deal of 14 information at a smaller scale about how our 15 technology will work and how all of these parts and 16 pieces will come together through this rapid 17 prototyping laboratory.
18 We also designed and built out within this 19 a lab specifically for containing beryllium so that we 20 can use FLiBe and do both FLiBe chemistry experiments 21 and also a significant amount of materials testing 22 within our facility here at Alameda. So this is a 23 dedicated facility where folks can go in and work with 24 FLiBe and be protected while doing so.
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12 Last
- year, we procured a
site in 1
Albuquerque, New Mexico. This was an existing 2
facility to which we have made a very large addition 3
as the T-facility. And the T-facility will again be 4
a dedicated beryllium facility where we will build out 5
by the end of this year the engineering test unit. So 6
we will have a non-nuclear representation of what our 7
Hermes reactor will look like, not fully prototypic, 8
but testing out again many of the different component 9
systems from which we want to learn and understand how 10 the technology will work so that we can de-risk the 11 program as much as possible.
12 CHAIR PETTI: So I have a question on the 13 T-facility. Is it an individual component test 14 facility sort of thing or is it integrated in that you 15 might have multiple components and be looking at 16 integral behavior?
17 MR. HACKETT: That's a great question and 18 the answer will (audio interference).
19 CHAIR PETTI: Okay.
20 MR. HACKETT: So what we're focused on 21 right now is an integrated test unit that is the 22 engineering test unit that I spoke of.
23 We also will have many single components 24 where we will do -- and single effects testing on 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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13 specific components where we want to learn and do more 1
(audio interference).
2 CHAIR PETTI: What is the size of the 3
facility? Do you know?
4 MR. PETERSON: Sixty-five feet tall, 100 5
feet wide and 400 feet long. That's the addition.
6 MR. HACKETT: This was Per Peterson. And 7
I'll just repeat really quickly what he shared. One 8
hundred feet wide, 400 feet long, 65 feet tall, that's 9
the dimension of this new addition that we have 10 completed construction on.
11 MEMBER REMPE: Are you planning some tests 12 of the graphite pebbles' interactions with the molten 13 salt at this S-lab to see if there's any degradation 14 and then how will you consider any sort of radiation 15 that's in such a test -- after you've completed such 16 a test?
17 MR. HACKETT: I'll start with the last 18 part of that. This is a non-nuclear facility. So the 19 radiation pieces --
20 MEMBER REMPE: I understand that. I have 21 a question even if you find out there's no 22 interactions in non-nuclear environment, where will 23 you look for any sort of radiation effects on the 24 results?
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14 MR.
HACKETT:
So there have been 1
experiments done at MIT looking at the effect of 2
radiation and graphite in a FLiBe environment. So we 3
will leverage that information.
4 MEMBER REMPE: To what clearance level?
5 MR. HACKETT: Off the top of my head, I 6
don't know what the peak fluence levels that they have 7
tested their graphite up to.
8 MEMBER REMPE: And then are you going to 9
do some non-nuclear tests at the S-Lab to try and see 10 if there's any other effects that you need to capture 11 such as temperature or other things?
12 Because again, if you're claiming that the 13 FLiBe is a barrier for radiation transport, one needs 14 to make sure that barrier doesn't degrade other 15 barriers, right?
16 MR. HACKETT: So I'll try to address 17 multiple parts of that and I appreciate the question 18 and understand the basis for the question.
19 We do have a lot of tests that we are 20 planning with graphite in FLiBe in multiple different 21 facilities or multiple different tests.
The 22 engineering test unit is one where we will have 23 essentially a
prototype of what our first 24 demonstration reactor will look like and we will be 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 circulating the graphite pebble in the FLiBe salt.
1 As far as interaction, we do know quite a 2
bit from MSRE on graphite in FLiBe salt coolant and 3
any effects of a radiation on that graphite. So we 4
understand how a radiation plus graphite plus FLiBe 5
interact based on the MSRE experiment.
6 We have experiments such as tribology 7
testing and salt infiltration testing. The tribology 8
testing is already operational, but it is not 9
something that we go into detail here in this 10 presentation or in this meeting, but we are testing 11 the effects of where an abrasion or friction, for 12 example, of the graphite fuel pebble in a FLiBe salt 13 coolant.
14 So that's giving you just a quick overview 15 of the different types of effects testing that we are 16 planning.
17 MEMBER REMPE: Thank you.
18 CHAIR PETTI: Micah, just a clarification.
19 The pebble is not graphite, right? It's matrix 20 material.
21 MR. HACKETT: It's material that's 22 partially graphitized. That's correct.
23 CHAIR PETTI: Partially, right. Yes.
24 MR. HACKETT: Correct.
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16 CHAIR PETTI: Thank you.
1 MR. HACKETT: Yes.
2 MEMBER BALLINGER: This is Ron Ballinger.
3 Are you, folks, I guess in parallel, accumulating 4
experience with beryllium and the like that might be 5
applicable for a larger facility on an industrial 6
scale that's going to be helpful?
7 MR. HACKETT: Absolutely. And I can say 8
from our partner, Materion, who is a leading producer 9
of beryllium and has developed all of the safety 10 programs on safe handling of beryllium, our 11 partnership with them has taught us a great deal. We 12 are putting that learning to practice here in our S-13 laboratories that I'm showing. It will be put into 14 use in our T-facility so that way we are learning how 15 to be able to work with beryllium products safely 16 without risking the health of our employees or 17 creating additional hazards.
18 MEMBER BALLINGER: I'm sure you're 19 concerned of your employees. I would be more concerned 20 about your customers' employees.
21 MR. HACKETT: Understood and I think part 22 of the purpose of protecting our employees would be, 23 of course, by protecting our employees and learning 24 how we're protecting our employees, any future folks 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 who might come into the facility would also be 1
protected.
2 MEMBER BALLINGER: Okay. Thank you. Just, 3
if you know, if we build one of these things and 4
operate it commercially that's a little bit different 5
than a very, very, very controlled environment for 6
testing.
7 MR. HACKETT: Yes, I agree completely and 8
I think the S-Lab is our first opportunity for really 9
learning in a very controlled environment. But then 10 the T-facility, as a much larger facility, that is not 11 similar to the size and scale of what our 12 demonstration reactor facility will look like. That 13 will give us an opportunity to prove out our ability 14 to maintain health and safety at a facility that's at 15 scale.
16 MEMBER BALLINGER: Thank you.
17 CHAIR PETTI: So the procedures you use, 18 the T-facility will kind of inform the procedures that 19 you -- operating procedures you use in your demo.
20 MR. HACKETT: Absolutely.
21 CHAIR PETTI: Yes.
22 MR. HACKETT: So continuing on, we have 23 announced our decision earlier this year on the Hermes 24 reactor site selection so this is where we plan to 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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18 place our first demonstration reactor. This will be 1
on the East Tennessee Technology Park next to the Oak 2
Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee.
3 Just to briefly mention some of the 4
external awards and work that we are doing with 5
different partners. We were awarded an NRC funding 6
opportunity announcement, I'm sorry, not an NRC -- a 7
DOE funding opportunity announcement on licensing risk 8
reduction.
9 We have been in engagement with the NRC.
10 We are in a cooperative development agreement with TVA 11 on collaboration for Hermes. And finally, we are an 12 award winner from a tier 2 award for DOE's advanced 13 reactor demonstration program on a risk reduction 14 award that will be used to support the Hermes 15 demonstration reactor deployment.
16 For the design approach in the reactor 17 concept itself, we have robust inherent safety. That 18 comes from multiple different areas of the reactor 19 design. Ones that I will mention here is the fact 20 that with our annular pebble design, and the fact that 21 we have a liquid coolant in both operating conditions 22 and in accident conditions, we have very large margins 23 in the fuel temperature between what peak fuel 24 temperatures will be in our fuel and what types of 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 fuel has already demonstrated in safety case to be 1
able to withstand peak temperature before failure.
2 And so we are not crediting the pebble 3
itself or any retention of fission products, but the 4
trace of particle does retain fission products. And 5
in addition, the coolant also has excellent retention 6
of most fission products. And that combined with a 7
low pressure system where we do not have concern with 8
high pressure release and effective passive decay heat 9
removal, all of these are features of the FHR design 10 that allow us to have that inherent safety in the 11 concept.
12 A big part of the flowing nuclear force is 13 being able to achieve a lower capital cost in order to 14 be economically competitive although a major strategy 15 in our program is to design and iterate in that design 16 through slowly scaling our concepts here starting with 17 this engineering test unit demonstration experiment 18 that was deployed in Alameda with non-nuclear water-19 based systems. We learned a great deal about that in 20 order to design and now under construction for the 21 engineering test unit, again, will be a non-nuclear 22 FLiBe-based system. And the learnings from that, 23 similar size and scale, will inform our Hermes reactor 24 demonstration program.
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20 And then, of course, Hermes is just 1
another step in our ability to achieve the fullest 2
commercial scale. We are planning, as a follow on to 3
the Hermes reactor, a full-scale unit that will mimic 4
in scope and prototyping the full scale commercial 5
reactor that will be a non-nuclear unit. This is our 6
U-facility reactor demonstration unit and that will be 7
full scale, allow us to exercise the supply chain and 8
construction in order to then inform how to construct 9
a full size commercial plant.
10 DR. CORRADINI: This is Corradini. I have 11 a question. Is there a public document? Because each 12 of these are progressive step in advancing the 13 technology as to the objectives. You kind of went 14 through it in a summary fashion, but is there a public 15 document that one can read to understand the objective 16 of each of these test facilities before you get to the 17 commercial plant scale, the demonstration?
18 MR. HACKETT: Yes, that's a great 19 question. I would have to follow up offline. We 20 have made presentations like this publicly.
21 MR. TOMKINS: There is a technical report 22 on the testing program that we submitted.
23 DR. CORRADINI: Okay. So if you could 24 just give us a reference to that, that would be very 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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21 helpful because I think your summary is good, but 1
trying to put it all together after your oral 2
discussion would be helpful with some written public 3
document.
4 MR. TOMKINS: Yes, that was Jim Tomkins 5
speaking. I just mentioned that we did submit a 6
technical report on our testing program, although I 7
don't know that it has everything that's in this slide 8
in it. But that laid out kind of our plans for 9
testing. I'll get that to Weidong.
10 DR. CORRADINI: Thank you very much.
11 MR. HACKETT: So moving on, I had 12 mentioned already the TRISO fuel in our pebble form 13 and discussed the core designs with the pebble bed 14 concept. The pebbles are designed to be positively 15 buoyant in FLiBE so that they slope at all times in 16 the FliBE. That, of course, means that they are 17 inserted at the bottom of the reactor and extracted at 18 the top of the reactor.
19 We do plan to eventually use a mixture of 20 both fuel and moderator pebbles in order to operate 21 the reactor at the optimal moderation. And the fuel 22 pebble itself contains the -- this is the diagram on 23 the right --- in the annular region we have the TRISO 24 coated fuel particles that are embedded in a 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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22 partially-graphitized matrix. And the baseline fuel 1
design that we are using is the AGR coated particle 2
(audio interference).
3 The pebble handling system itself monitors 4
the condition of the burn up so that we have an 5
opportunity to extract pebbles if they become damaged 6
before reinserting them back into the core. And also 7
that when the pebbles reach the full burn up that we 8
have an opportunity to be able to extract them and 9
insert new fresh fuel pebbles.
10 MEMBER REMPE: So let me just ask the 11 question again since we have this nice picture here.
12 You have data showing that the matrix shell can resist 13 any sort of interactions with the coolant. And then 14 is it so secure that you feel comfortable that you 15 know it doesn't also have any sort of interaction with 16 the density graphite?
17 And then, have you ever gone far enough to 18 say I know it won't even interact with the silicon 19 carbide if something were to happen?
20 I mean how much data do you have for that?
21 I'm not sure I know all the details of the MIT test.
22 MR. HACKETT: Sure. So I'll just share 23 that we are collecting that data now, so we do not 24 have all of that data to share and to present today.
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23 But we are in the process of collecting all of that 1
test data to be able to demonstrate those concerns 2
that you highlighted.
3 MEMBER REMPE: Because yes, if you're 4
going to have -- you have these two barriers and if 5
there's any concern about one barrier degrading 6
another barrier, we really ought to know about it.
7 MR. HACKETT: Absolutely.
8 MR. TOMKINS: This is Jim Tomkins again.
9 We have a fairly extensive laboratory testing program 10 that's part of our fuel qualification. This meeting 11 today is not actually talking about qualification of 12 the fuel. This is really talking about the 13 qualification of our fuel performance model.
14 MEMBER REMPE: But that model must 15 account for any degradation, right?
16 MR. HACKETT: Correct.
17 MR. COLLIN: This is correct. The 18 assumption is that these -- this is Blaise Collin by 19 the way. The assumption of this board is that our 20 laboratory testing program will inform us about 21 potential interactions between the FLiBe and the 22 pebble. At this point, we assume that these 23 interactions are not degrading the performance of the 24 fuel, but obviously, depending on the findings of 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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24 these tests, we would have potentially to account for 1
such interactions. But at this point, we assume that 2
the systems do not interact in a deleterious way.
3 MR. HACKETT: And I'll just share that 4
between MSRE showing compatibility between FLiBe and 5
graphite, and again, this is not full graphite. It is 6
just partially graphetized, but between that 7
experience and ATTR experience of pebble circulating, 8
of course, in helium, but circulating nevertheless, we 9
do have some confidence that our tests will be 10 successful, but of course, it is upon us to conduct 11 those tests.
12 Any other questions on that? So talking 13 about the purpose of our fuel performance methodology 14 and the topical report. The methodology for our fuel 15 performance is to determine the probability of TRISO 16 fuel particle failure and fission product release that 17 support the KP-FHR source term basis. That is the 18 objective of the fuel performance model that we are 19 discussing here today.
20 The methodology limits the validation of 21 representative conditions for the KP-FHR and Kairos 22 Power has requested NRC to review and approve the use 23 of KP-BISON fuel performance analysis methodology and 24 uncertainty qualification methodology for conducting 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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25 fuel fluent analysis that supports the KP-FHR safety 1
analysis.
2 And Blaise will be going into a lot more 3
detail later in this meeting. That just sets the 4
stage for all of Blaise's much more technical 5
discussion on the fuel performance model.
6 The methodology is really the fuel's 7
ability to -- of the nuclear fuel to sustain radiation 8
damage while maintaining integrity of those physical 9
barriers that prevent the release of fission products.
10 So KP-BISON is an analytical model based on the INL 11 BISON code. It is using constitutive equations while 12 in analytical relationships. All of that has been 13 developed based on experimental data, much of it 14 collected from the ACR program and, of course, 15 programs prior to that in order to assess probability 16 of failure of those different particle layers, as well 17 as the potential release for fission products 18 regardless of whether or not the layers have failed.
19 KP-BISON is used to predict performance of 20 our trace of fuel under the normal operating 21 conditions as well as postulated events. And the 22 methodology is based on the KP-FHR fuel design 23 specifically. It does include a consideration of the 24 fuel coolant uncertainties in order to calculate that 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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26 probability of failure and fission products released.
1 MEMBER REMPE: So I had some questions 2
about the prior slide. Correct me if I'm wrong and I 3
sort of asked this question when you guys came before 4
ACRS a while back. But this is the first time a 5
design developer with the DOE codes for a licensing 6
application or a topical report.
7 And I asked last time and they said it was 8
unclear that representative from Kairos. But if you 9
were to go forward and have a plant, how would this 10 work? Is DOE going to give you some sort of 11 authorization that you can sell the suite of codes in 12 the long term to a plant owner/operator?
13 And then I guess I had some questions 14 about the QA aspects of what you're planning on doing 15 since clearly, you still have to get data to valid the 16 code.
17 I assume the INL code was developed or the 18 DOE code was developed with appropriate QA, so at 19 least it's verifying even if they don't have all the 20 data for it. But then how will -- what's your process 21 going to be for the V&V?
22 MR. HACKETT: Brandon, are you on the 23 line?
24 MR. HAUGH: Yes, I can take this. This is 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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27 Brandon Haugh, the director of Model Installation for 1
Kairos Power.
2 Great question, Joy. Thanks. So on the 3
commercial terms of that, we have options in our 4
agreement with DOE. We sort that when we get there.
5 So that exact method of how licensing would work and 6
how in a commercial sense is, I'm going to say a 7
future discussion. But it's in the terms of what we 8
discussed with DOE.
9 On the code QA, you are correct. It was 10 developed under an NQA-1 compliant software quality 11 program and it's been audited and the audit is at INL.
12 Now we were going to commercially dedicate 13 those codes within our own quality assurance program 14 and audit INL in their program and then we'll carry it 15 to the finish line, as you said, through validation.
16 That validation data we have a plan that's 17 been issued internally and is a reference to this 18 topical report and it determines, you know, how we're 19 going to do that validation based on the current 20 available data through the HER program. And then as 21 we gain operational experience and other things that's 22 described in our fuel qualification plan, more data 23 could become available.
24 MEMBER REMPE: So I get that validation is 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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28 going to have to come when the data become available, 1
but given the fact that you started out with an NQA-1 2
verified code, why didn't you go ahead and verify it 3
before you submitted this topical report?
4 MR. HAUGH: We've been in the process of 5
doing that in partnership with INL, so through the 6
code development process or our industry FOA award, 7
we've been working hand in hand through verifying each 8
piece of the tool as it's implemented, so that 9
verification occurs while code is being developed.
10 Validation is ongoing, so we are working 11 through that now and it's a continuing effort over the 12 coming years.
13 We wanted to get the basis for our work 14 and licensing certainty is why we took kind of this 15 two-step approach to the topical report while the 16 limitations and conditions (audio interference) we can 17 mediate the upfront methodology and getting 18 understanding of that was very important to us. One, 19 because it's the first time this code is being used 20 for this type of fuel in a commercial sense in front 21 of the regulator and two, getting -- understanding of 22 how the code will be used and the scope of its use in 23 our validation and safety case allows us to have 24 certainty moving forward that we're doing the correct 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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29 work in validation to make sure that we meet those 1
requirements versus us having to guess ahead of time 2
and then get regulatory buy-in later, maybe we do too 3
little or too much work.
4 MR. TOMKINS: And I might add, this is Jim 5
Tomkins again, that verification and validation is a 6
defined open item in this topical which we have to 7
close and we will do it at a later date.
8 CHAIR PETTI: So just a point of 9
clarification that might help when you guys come to 10 the full committee in September, you see that we've 11 been bumping into topics sort of peripheral to what 12 we're hearing about today, sort of a road map of stuff 13 that you're planning to submit later that lays out the 14 landscape could be helpful, I think, for members to 15 understand. You know, yes, we know about this one 16 over here. We're planning to submit that, you know, 17 in the future. But everyone sees the full picture.
18 MR. TOMKINS: So we have submitted a 19 regulatory engagement plan which has that information 20 in it. I think we've updated that at least once, so 21 you know, NRC can provide you that or we can get it to 22 you. It lays out all the topicals we're doing and 23 kind of when we're submitting them.
24 Does that answer --
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30 CHAIR PETTI: Yes.
1 MEMBER HALNON: This is Greg Halnon. I 2
have a question and both are on slide 8. And I'm one 3
of those that I'm not sure how far along you are on 4
your design for the actual plant, but how did you 5
define an envelope of operating conditions and define 6
postulated events so that we know that performance 7
behavior is well bounded by your analyses?
8 MR. HAUGH: Yes, I'll go ahead and take a 9
stab at that. His is Brandon Haugh, another good 10 question.
11 So we looked at the envelope conditions of 12 how we're designing the plant at the top level 13 requirements so the operating conditions and 14 surrounding and then using for Hermes is a test 15 reactor, the basis in NUREG-1537, so constructed 16 deterministic events bound to those using an MHA 17 process.
18 So when we get the applicability of these 19 tools within kind of a box of what the plant lives 20 within.
21 MEMBER HALNON: So when you get to the 22 actual building of the plant, I guess it's probably 23 more in the design certification of the licensing 24 process where you take a look at the full plant, make 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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31 sure the postulated events you did under this 1
methodology is bounded by the actual assumed 2
operational occurrences that occur during -- with the 3
actual plant design?
4 MR. HAUGH: Yes, yes, as we went through 5
that final design or moved through those design phases 6
(audio interference) called out in terms of either 7
technical specifications or conditions we have to 8
live within. That's one of the bases of the safety 9
case.
10 MEMBER HALNON: Okay, if you can't drive 11 to within the envelope here, you'll have to redo the 12 analysis then.
13 MR. HAUGH: Exactly.
14 MEMBER HALNON: Okay, thanks.
15 MEMBER REMPE: Again, I guess the road map 16 would help me, but are you planning to bring this back 17 in with an updated topical report after you validated 18 and verified it and after you have data for postulated 19 events, as well as normal operating conditions?
20 MR. TOMKINS: Yes. If that's what the 21 committee desires, yes.
22 MEMBER REMPE: I mean that is your plan.
23 I mean the staff has put a lot of limitations and 24 conditions on their approval and it sounds like you 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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32 almost have to come back again, doesn't it?
1 MR. HACKETT: Yes, that is part of the 2
- plan, after we perform the verification and 3
validation, we will be updating the topical report in 4
another revision, including all that information and 5
that will be submitted to the NRC at a future date.
6 And so Joy, coming back to one of your 7
earlier questions about validation, the data, this is 8
the final slide in the introduction of KP-BISON. The 9
plan is to validate this model through the use of 10 historical radiation data, much of it coming from AGR-11 1 and 2 manufacturing and radiation campaign and that 12 includes the topical report that EPRI led in 13 coordination with INL and submitted to the NRC.
14 So much of the AGR 1 and 2 radiation data 15 is included in that topical and is going to be used 16 for part of the verification/validation program of the 17 KP-BISON. And a lot of that is being done through our 18 model development as Brandon already mentioned through 19 the DOE iFOA licensing award that we received in 2019.
20 And the purpose of that was really to accelerate the 21 licensing pathway through the DOE NEAMS program.
22 Any other questions on that or anything 23 else for the introduction?
24 MR. CUADRADO DE JESUS: Jim, this is Sam.
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33 I see here a revision to the engagement plan was 1
provided on December 2020. Is that the latest version 2
I guess?
3 MR. HACKETT: I think so, yes.
4 MR. CUADRADO DE JESUS: Okay, so I can 5
send that to Weidong.
6 MR. TOMKINS: All right, we're done at 7
this point.
8 Weidong, what's the next step? Do we 9
switch for the -- or do you take it from here?
10 MR. WANG: Hi. This is Weidong. I think 11 the next is for public comments because we are in a 12 closed meeting for the next two or three hours, so I 13 suggest to ask for any public comments at this point.
14 CHAIR PETTI: There's no other staff 15 slides at this point, is that true?
16 MR. CUADRADO DE JESUS: Correct.
17 CHAIR PETTI: Okay. Great. So let's open 18 the public line.
19 MR. DASHIELL: The public line is open for 20 comments.
21 CHAIR PETTI: Any comments from the 22 public? Well, not hearing any, I guess we can close 23 the open meeting and everybody get on the closed 24 meeting link. We'll see everybody in about five 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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34 minutes hopefully. Okay, we'll see everybody there.
1 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went 2
off the record at 1:43 p.m.)
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Copyright © 2021 Kairos Power LLC. All Rights Reserved.
No Reproduction or Distribution Without Express Written Permission of Kairos Power LLC.
KP-FHR Fuel Performance Methodology Topical Report ACRS Kairos Power Licensing Subcommittee OPEN SESSION JULY 6, 2021
Copyright © 2021 Kairos Power LLC. All Rights Reserved.
No Reproduction or Distribution Without Express Written Permission of Kairos Power LLC.
2 Fluoride Salt-Cooled High-Temperature Reactor (FHR)
Technology Basis Low-Pressure Reactor Vessel (FFTF core shown)
Coated Particle Fuel TRISO Liquid Fluoride Salt Coolant Flibe (2LiF-BeF2)
Copyright © 2021 Kairos Power LLC. All Rights Reserved.
No Reproduction or Distribution Without Express Written Permission of Kairos Power LLC.
3 Kairos Power Highlights of Recent Progress T-Facility Engineering Test Unit New Mexico Expansion S-Lab Flibe Chemistry and Materials Testing Lab R-Lab Rapid Prototyping and Technology Development Hermes Reactor Site Selection East Tennessee Technology Park Nuclear Regulatory Commission Pre-Application Engagement DOE Advanced Reactor Demonstration Program (ARDP)
Risk Reduction Award Cooperative Development Agreement Development & Demonstration Collaboration for Hermes Internal Milestones and Accomplishments:
External Awards and Validation:
Copyright © 2021 Kairos Power LLC. All Rights Reserved.
No Reproduction or Distribution Without Express Written Permission of Kairos Power LLC.
4 Kairos Power Design Approach for Hermes Demonstration Reactor
- Robust Inherent Safety Uniquely large fuel temperature margins Retention of fission products in primary coolant Low-pressure system Effective passive decay heat removal
- Lower Capital Costs Reduce requirements for high-cost, nuclear-grade components and structures through FHR intrinsic safety and plant architecture Leverage conventional materials, existing industrial equipment, and conventional fabrication and construction methods
Copyright © 2021 Kairos Power LLC. All Rights Reserved.
No Reproduction or Distribution Without Express Written Permission of Kairos Power LLC.
5 KP-FHR Uses TRISO Fuel in Pebble Form
- Core design is a pebble bed concept within a graphite reflector Pebbles are positively buoyant in Flibe Mixture of fuel and moderator pebbles operates with optimal moderation
- Fuel particles:
Tri-structural isotropic (TRISO)-coated fuel particles embedded in a partially graphitized matrix Baseline fuel uses AGR coated particle design
- Pebble handling system monitors condition and burnup Fuel reaches full depletion in 1.4 effective full power years Rapid depletion reduces total fuel inventory and enables accelerated development of advanced fuel designs 6
4.0-cm diameter, annular fuel pebble is the same size as a ping-pong ball
Copyright © 2021 Kairos Power LLC. All Rights Reserved.
No Reproduction or Distribution Without Express Written Permission of Kairos Power LLC.
6 Purpose of Fuel Performance Methodology Topical Report
- The methodology is used to determine the probability of TRISO fuel particle failure and fission product release to support the KP-FHR source term basis
- The methodology is limited to validation of representative conditions for the KP-FHR
- Kairos Power is requesting NRC review and approval to:
Use the KP-BISON fuel performance analysis methodology and uncertainty quantification methodology for conducting fuel performance analysis for a KP-FHR to support the KP-FHR safety analysis.
Copyright © 2021 Kairos Power LLC. All Rights Reserved.
No Reproduction or Distribution Without Express Written Permission of Kairos Power LLC.
7 Fuel Performance Methodology
- Fuel performance is the ability of nuclear fuel to sustain irradiation damage while retaining the integrity of the fuels physical barriers to fission product release.
- KP-BISON is an analytical model, based on the INL BISON code, that uses constitutive equations and analytical relationships developed from experimental data to assess the probability of failure for the particle coating layers, and the potential release of fission products.
- KP-BISON is used to predict the performance behavior of TRISO fuel under KP-FHR normal operating conditions and postulated events.
- The Kairos fuel performance methodology is based on the KP-FHR fuel design and includes a consideration of fuel performance uncertainties to calculate probability of failure and fission product release to inform the fuel contribution to the source term.
Copyright © 2021 Kairos Power LLC. All Rights Reserved.
No Reproduction or Distribution Without Express Written Permission of Kairos Power LLC.
8 AGR Irradiation Data Informs Fuel Performance Model
- KP-BISON is validated through use of historical irradiation data, especially from the AGR-1 and AGR-2 manufacturing and irradiation campaigns and topical report from EPRI.
- Model development received a DOE iFOA licensing award in 2019 to accelerate the KP-BISON licensing pathway through the DOE NEAMS program in collaboration with INL and LANL D.A. Petti et al., A Summary of the Results from the DOE Advanced Gas Reactor (AGR) Fuel Development and Qualification Program, INL/EXT 40784