ML20244A758
| ML20244A758 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Comanche Peak  |
| Issue date: | 07/17/1984 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20097F079 | List:
|
| References | |
| FOIA-84-487 NUDOCS 8906120137 | |
| Download: ML20244A758 (62) | |
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGl!LATORY COMMISSION In the matter of:
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TEXAS UTILITIES ELECTRIC COMPANY, et al Docket No. 50-445-2 50-446-2 (Comanche Peak Steam Electric Station, Units 1 & 2)
Deposition of Meddie Gregory IN CA! ERA i
Location: Glen Rose, Texas Pages. 5 4,5 00 - 5 4,55 9 "T
Date: Tuesday, July 17, 1984 0 l
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54,500 IN CAMERA I
i 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY. COMMISSION 2
3 BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY & LICENSING BOARD A
5
-x In the matter of:
o]I TEXAS UTILITIES ELECTRIC 7
COMPANY, et al.
- Docket Nos.-50-445 e
50-446 (Comanche Peak Ste_am Electric g
Station, Units 1 and 2) 1
x 10 11 Glen Rose Motor Inn Glen Rose, Texas 13 J ul y 17, - 1984 14 Deposition of:
MEDDIE GREGORY (IN CAMERA) 15 called by examination by counsel for Interveners, 16
,7l taken before
. Suzanne Young, Court Reporter, g
beginning at 11 : 55 a. m., pursuant to agreement..
4 IO 20 i
21 22 23 24 25 1
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54,501 mgc-2 3
APPEARANCES:
2 For'the ApplicantsLTexas Utilities Electric Company, et al.:
3 BRUCE DOWNEY, ESQUIRE 4
KEVIN SHAUGHNESSY, ESQUIRE Bishop, Liberman, Cook, Purcell & Reynolds 5
1200 Seventeenth Street, Northwest Washington, D.C.
20036 6
For the Nuclear Regulatory Commission = Staff:
7 RICHARD =J.
GODDARD, ESQUIRE 8
Office of the Executive Legal. Director U.S.
Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C.
20555 10 For the Intervenor Citizens Association for Sound-Energy:
11 ANTH0!3Y Z.
ROISMAN, ESQUIRE 12 Executive. Director Trial Lawyers for Public Justice, P.C.
13 2000 P. Street. Northwest, Suite 1611 Washington, D.C.
20036 15 16 17 IB 19 20 21
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.__.-__.--_-__.-___-.----_-_._--_J
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154,502-503
):
I mge 1 INDEX 2
3 WITNESS-
. EXAMINATION BY-4 4
MEDDIE GREGORY MR.'ROISMAN:
54,505 5
6 1
7 8
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10 11 12 la 14
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No Exhibits.
15 to
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17 l;!.
18
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4 t_~
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39 66 4
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SYjl 1/1" 54,504 1
IN CAMERA 2
Whereupon, 1
4 MEDDIE GREGORY 5
.was called as a witness and, having been=first duly sworn,.
6 was examined and testified as follows:
7 MR. ROISMAN:
For the record,.I.am Anthony 2.
8 Roisman.
I am counsel for the Intervenor, CASE.-
9 MR. GODDARD:
Richard J.
Goddard, attorney'for:the 10 Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
Il MR. DOWNEY:
Bruce Downey, counsel for Texas 12 Utilities Generating Company, Applicant in this proceeding.
13 MR. SHAUGHNESSY:
Kevin Shaughnessy.
'I am also.
18 representing the Applicant in this proceeding.
15 MR. ROISMAN:
This'is.an in camera proceeding','a 1-6 witness who has requested and been-given1 confidentiality.
17 I will ask if'each of the parties who are here have 18 signed the protective order agreement and agreed to abide by 19 it.
20 <
Mr. Goddard?
21 MR. GODDARD:
To the best of my knowledge,,the i
22 ^
Staff has not.
We are governed by.the requirements to protect 22 the confidentiality of this witness.
I do not know, in fact,.
2d that we have signed it.
The,other parties may know whether tj 25 the NRC is a signatory to the formal protective order.
l l
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SYjl11/2 54,505 1
MR. ROISMAN:
I believe that the Staff lawyers-2 have, in. fact', been signing _the agreement.
3 MR. GODDARD:
Then you are awareoof that.
4 Thank you.
5 MR. ROISMAN:
The agreement has some specific 6
provisions in it.regarding nondisclosure to other people,-
7 even people'within the Staff.
8 Can we.have your agreement that you will abide.by 9
whatever it is that the Staff has already agreed to abide by to here and will sign the agreement when we are finished here?
11 MR. GODDARD:
Certainly 12 MR. ROISMAN:
I have signed the agreement, as has
~
13 my colleague, Mr. Shaughnessy.
14 MR. ROISMAN:
Okay.
That's fine.
15 Ms. Gregory will be testifying this morning on 16 items substantially less broad.than the totality of the 17 information which we have given to.the Applicant and Staff.
18 Many of the complaints that she has filed and ~
19 statements that she has made to the Office of Investigations I
20 ' relate to matters that are outside the scope of this
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21 particular proceeding.
i
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22 Thus, it is my intention, through the direct-23 ' examination of Ms. Gregory, to define the scope of the 24 parties' cross-examination of Ms. Gregory.
1 25 i
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_____...____._______.__J
l
'SYjl 1/3 54,506 1
MR. DOWNEY:
May.I in t erj e c t a comment, 2
Mr. Roisman?
3 In light of the lateness of our receipt of any 4
information concerning this witness and most particularly.
I 5
concerning any allegations of harassment and intimidation or 6
threats or quality control / quality assurance personnel at 7
Comanche Peak -- I wish to reserve the right to defer cross-8 examination or delay complete cross-examination of this 9
witness until we've had an opportunity to review the ' specific 10 allegations that you bring out in her direct examination.
11 MR. ROISMAN:
I understand you are reserving that 12 right.,,And of course, I will reserve the right to object if 13 you are not able to make the appropriate showing-.
But the 14 reservation is noted~for purposes of the record.
15 EXAMINATION XX::X X', '
16 BY MR. ROISMAN:
17 Q
Ms. Gregory, can you tell me when did you first 18 become involved with the Comanche Peak Nuclear Station?
10 A
I went to work there on May the 21st, 1982.
20 Q
And prior to that time, had you had any prior 21 experience working at a nuclear power facility?
22 A
No, sir.
23 Q
And would you tell me, what was the first job that j 24 you had when you came to the plant?
25 A
-I was in the QC Department, working with.the 1
Syj l; 1/ 4 54,507 i
installation of hydros.
2 Q
You will have to speak up.
She is hearing you.
3 through this microphone.
4 What did that work involve?
5 A
-Drawing up the maps for the boundaries, the hydro-
~
6 boundaries for the hydros that were to be run on the piping, 7
Q And what did you do subsequent to that job?
8 A
I had come off of a period of disability --
9 Q
l'm sorry, not before but after you had that job --
io after you had that particular position at Comanche Peak, what 11 was your next position?
12 A
My next position was a transfer to the Hanger Task 13 l Force in the Reactor Building.
f ia i Q
And what were your responsibilities there?
is A
Keeping up with the documentation, the hanger 16 packages that came in, and seeing that the QC inspectors had 17 the necessary drawings and things for their'walkdowns and to is see that they were transmitted back to the QC Building.
in Q
And how long did you hold that position, roughly?
20 ;
A I was there roughly -
ch, not very long, about a i
21 month or so, maybe a little longer.
22 Q
And then what was-your next positi'on?-
23 A
In my next position, I was moved up to the QES v
24 Review-Group in the QC Building.
25 Q
What were your responsibilities there?
SYjl.1/5 54,508 I
i 1
A I reviewed travelers, piping travelers.
2 Q
What did you do to. review them?
What did that 3
consist of?
4 A
It consisted of checking to'see that:they.had been.
5 t
properly inspected, that the signatures -- that it had.the 6 I sigantures of the QC inspectors and the welders, that they 7
were certified to the QC inspection, that they were certified 8
to do the welding, that the serial numbers and.everything 9
matched what was supposed to be there, just a review of the' 10 traveler itself.
11 Q
How~long did you hold that position, roughly?
12 A
Approximately about two weeks.
13 i l
Q And then what?
14 A
They transferred me to the. hangers' transmit tal, 15 where they were transmitting hangers to ANI and to.the vault.
to And I worked on mainly transmittal sheets, to see that they 17 couid keep track of were logged-in the log books so that we
'18 all the hanger packages.
19 Q
So that you could know where they were?
20 i
A Yes.
l 21 '
Q And how long did you hold that position?
22 A
I held that position for about three weeks.
23 I
Q And then what did you do?-
j 24 A
.They transferred me back to the QES Review Group i
25 as I handled the paper flow for all of the piping packages, i
1
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'STjl 1/6 54,509 l
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interfacing between_ANI and the QES-group".
And then..when
'l 2
everything'was signed off, I transmitted all the. packages to j
3 the permanent plant record vault.
4 Q
So, your responsibilities there involved, again, l
5 tracking; documents and eventually transmitting documents;to 6
the vault when all things were done with them for.them to go 7
to the' vault?
8 A
Yes, I maintained traceability of all piping packages.
10 Q
And how long did'you hold that position?
11 A
Until I was terminated, last Friday.
12 Q
In the period of time that you worked there.-were 13 you ever given any formal training for purposes of carrying 14 out your responsibilities?
15 A
No, sir.
16 Q
Did you at any time take a class.that was given 17 related to matters that had any tangential relationst.ip to 18 your work, although they didn't directly relate to your 19 skills?
20,
A About a month and a half or.two months ago, we I
21 l did have a training course in QES' review -- N-5 statusing and 22 QES review.
23 Q
And you attended that course?
I 24 A
Yes.
25
-Q During the time that you were employed at i
I O
SYjl 1/7 1
Comanche Peak, did you ever witness any event'or events which, 2
in your judgment, reflected an effort to either put pressure 3
on a QC employee or attempt to discourage a QC employee with 4
respect to the performance.of their duties?
5' MR. DOWNEY:
Objection.
That's.a compound 6
question.
7 I would ask you to ask those two poin ts separately.
8 BY MR. ROISMAN:
9 Q
Do you understand'any difference between the 10 phrases "put pressure on" and " discourage from doing the job"?
11 A
Yes, sir.
12 Q
Okay.
13 Then, would.you' answer the question:
Did you see 14 any QC person who was being pressured to not carry out what.
S they perceived to be their job responsibilities?
16 A
No, sir.
17 Q
Did you see any QC person who., in your judgCent,
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18 was being discouraged from carrying out their job 19 responsibilities?
20 A
" Job responsibility"'-- I need to knwo what you're 21 talking about.
22 Q
All right.
Any QC person who, in' your. judgment.
l 1
23 based upon what you saw, was being discouragedifrom doing what, I
1 24 they thought they should do.
25 A
Yes, sir.
t I
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Syjl 1/8 54,511-I Q
Can you relate a particular incident?
2 A
Yes, sir.
3 Q
Would you do that and. start, if you would, by4 d
first identifying who was the QC person involved in the 5
incident that you are now going to relate?
O j A
Sue Anne Neumeyer.
7 Q
And who-was the person or persons, if any, who you 6
saw that were attempting to discourage SuefAnne Neumeyer from doing what she thought was her job.
10 MR. DOWNEY:
I object.
I don't belive there's any II foundation that this witness knows what Sue Anne Neumeyer 12 thought her job should be.
I think it is speculative.
3 You are asking her to define what Sue Anne Neumeyer thought was her job and would-relate wha't she, Ms. Gregory, thinks was discouraging Ms. Neumeyer from Ms. Neumeyer's I
'O perception of what her job was.
J
'7
.)
I think it is speculative.
)
'O MR. ROISMAN:
I will withdraw it for the moment.
19 BY MR. ROISMAN:
,o i Q
Did you know Ms. Neumeyer before you saw the i
' I incident that you're going to talk about?-
i A
Yes, sir.
l l
23 Q
Did you know what job she had?
"4 A
Yes, sir.
25 Q
What job did she have?
ew,
1 54,512 SYjl~1/9, i
l i
.)
I
-A She was a QC inspector..
2 Q-
-And_where did she perform the work at the time' 3
that you knew her?'
-l A
She was working in'the field.
5 Q
And the' event that you-saw that involved pressure 1
6' on hst, did that occur in'the field?
7 A
No, sir.
O Q
Did-you know what kind of work.Ms. Neumeyer did in 9
the field?
10 A
Yes, sir.
I' Q
What was the basis of your knowledge for that?
1' A
She inspected everything on the piping.
She was
'3 a QC inspector.
It was.her job to inspect to see that Id everything was done according to procedure and that everything 15 was performed in the sequence that it was supposed.to be
'6 performed in.
'I MR. DOWNEY:
I would strike the answer as not I
l8 responsive.
1 move to strike it.
You asked for the basis of her1 knowledge of what
,o ;
} Ms. Neumeyer did, and she gave us her perception of what she end 1 2'
did, not the basis for her knowledge.
22,;
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25
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-jon1 54.513-t incam2 l
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i MR. ROISMAN:
At this point, rather than 2
go back over the record, I will ask'the' question again
.and if Mr. Downey feels the answer 11s not responsive he can make his objection again.
5 BY MR.- ROISMAN:
6 Q
What was the' basis for your knowledge ~ o t' 7
what Ms. N,eumeyer's job consisted of?
8l' A
I knew what the QC inspector's responsibility i
'I was.
10 l.
Q' And how did you know that?
i l'
A I worked with the QC inspectors.
12 Q
Was Ms.'Neumeyer's area of inspection'in any 13 way related to the types of documents that you. reviewed 14 in your position?
~
15 A
At that time I wasn't in document review.
16 I mean I wasn't reviewing documentation.
.I was in the 17 hydro group.
1B Q
At the time of the event that you are lo going to relate to us?
20 A
Yes.
l i
21 Q
And was Ms. Neumeyer one of the inspectors i
22 whose work you were familiar with as a result of your job.
j 23 or as a result of people who you had communications with 24 at the plant site?
i 25 MR. DOWNEY:
Objection; compound question.
I
1
-54,514 jon2 I
I ask you to ask those separately.
2' BY MR. ROISMAN:
3 Q
I am not going to do that.
Go ahead.
e MR. DOWNEY:
Note my objection, please.
5 THE WITNESS:
I was familiar with-e Ms. Neumeyer as a QC inspector because that was her-job.
7 I worked with many QC inspectors.
Their job was'to af.
inspect, to be certain of the quality of the plant.
BY MR. ROISMAN:
ib l Q
Did she ever have. occasion to discuss-with it you what her job responsibilities _ consisted of?
12 A
I knew what they consisted of.
She was_a i3 QC inspector.
Her job was to work as a quality control y
inspector.
A quality control inspector is to assure the 35 safety of the plant in conformance with procedures.
g MR. DOWNEY:
I move'to' strike the answer as not responsive to the question.
37 BY MR. ROISMAN:
)g Q
Did Ms. Neumeyer ever personally discuss with you her job and what her duties were?
20 A
Yes, we discussed it.
g Q
Before the time that you observed the event that I have asked you about previously?
A Yes.
24 Q
Would you tell me at the time of this event f
54,515 jon3' f
I, e
I who'was present.other than Ms. Neumeyer and yourself?
2 A
C.
C '. Randall and1 Dwight Woodar'd; 3
Q And 'can you.tell me what did you observe t
at that time?
5 A
Dwight Woodward ordered her to sign.offJon i
6 1~
documentation that she had not reviewed.
Q And when he orderedher to do that~ what do a
you recollect were his words to her?-
o A
He. told her that she would either sign it 10 off or she would lose the next three days.
She would, sit 11 i
up there for the next three days over the weekend.
We l
3, had three days off.
She'would either. sign it off or-she 13 would stay up there all weekend.
14 Q
And what did Ms. Ofeumeyer. say in response 15-to that, if anything, as you recollect?
16 A
She did not want to sign it off.
She 17 indicated -- she said she had not witnessed.
Now, this 18 is all I can say; it is all I heard.
t Q
l'm sorry.
To the best 6f your ' ability
'O :
could you clarify when she said she'had not witnessed, I
'l l did she say what she had not witnessed?
l A
At that particular time she~ told him she 23 could not sign it.
He said she.would sirn it or she
,a i
would stay there the three days until she did sign it.
Q And did she explain to him in your i
-jon4
,5 4, 5 1 6 I
hearing why she could not sign it?
f 2
A She had said'that she could not sign.
t 3-She didn't actually say she had not witnessed it.
She-4 just said she could not sign it; she had not reviewed it.
.I 5
.Q Do you know of.your own personal knowledge-6 what ultimately happened with regard to that matter?'
7-Did Ms. Neumeyer sign the documents?
8 A
Yes, she did.
9 Q
How do you know that?
to A
She said she did.
11 MR. DOWNEY:
Objection.
I ~
to' strike move 12 all this testimony as hearsay about this. event.
i l
13 Commencing with the question that elicited the response 14 that Mr. Woodard ordered her to sign the full 15 documentation or stay all weekend.
And then I have a note 16 on the question.
But that is the substance of her 17
(
response down through this point.
And most partic 1.arly 1
18 the last response.
10 MR. ROISMAN:
I believe the uitness is l
20 testifying to what she observed.
j i
21 MR. DOWNEY:
Your-last question...
22 Mr. Roisman, was 23 MR. ROISMAN:
I am talking about the-s 24 totality of the testimony.
25 MR. DOWNEY:
The totality of'the. testimony
t Ljon5 54,517-1 I
is quite clearly hearsay,'but the.-jlast? question in 2
particular.you~ asked her do~you know-what. happened; she 3
said yes,.Ms. Neumeyer. signed.
'Jow do yo'u.know? !She told me signed.
That's'all he.
say.and I-move ' to strike
'O it.
.6 MR, ROISMAN:
No.
It: is the answerLto the question how did you know.
0 MR. DOWNEY:
It is quite clear then that 9
she doesn't know of her-own personal; knowledge'what 10 happened.
She only knows what Ms. Neuemeyer told.her, 11 in which case the answer to the preceding-~ question is 12 objectionable on the grounds that this witness is not 13 competent to testify about it because,she has no personal 14 knowledge and therefore it is excludable under Rule 601 15 of the Federal Rules of Evidence.
'O MR. ROISMAN:
As you are aware, Ms. Neuemeyer will be a witness in this pr.oceeding'and 18 the testimony that is being given here will.be 19 corroborative of that and in order to anticipate 1the-20 potential that the app'licant vill seek to discredit
'l either Ms. Neumeyer's testimony or the veracity of Ms. Neumeyer on this particular point and thus la is
'3 appropriate at this time to put that on the record l1 24 and that is what we are doing.
I 25 MR. DOWNEY:
And I would add again that I f.
j n6 54,518 I
move to strike these responses'to all of these 2
questions beginning with the response I indicated 3
earlier on the grounds that it is hearsay,.and my 4
second move to strike the questions about what happened S
to th4s-document package on the_ grounds that Ms. Gregory 6
has no personal knowledge of those events, and 7
acknowledged by her own testimony is solely derivative 8
from what 9. s..Neuemeyer told her and therefore that 9
question and response is objectionable.
And the second 10 ground is lack of personal knowledge of this' witness.
11 MR. ROISMAN:
Your objection is noted.
12 BY MR. ROISMAN:
13 Q
Ms. Gregory, was there ever a time when 14 you were employed at Comanche Peak when youtere present 15 when any effort was made by any supervisor to' pressure 16 i
or to encourage employees to produce QC inspections ~on 17 a quota system?
18 MR. DOWNEY:
Objection;'she has.already 19 testified that she is aware of no knowledge on pressure-on 20 i
QC inspectors and I would ask you that question has 21 been asked and answered.
The second half of your compound 22 I
question I would permit, but I would urge you to rephrase l
23 your question, eliminating the part of the compound 2a J
question that has been asked and answered and confine yourj
^
25 i
question to the latter part of the compound question.
W
97 54,519-1 I
BY MR. ROISMAN:
2 Q
Ms. Gregory,-were you ever aware o f your 3
.own personal knowledge of any instance in.which any.
j d
supervisor indicated'to QC inspectors'that their job 5
performance-included producing a certain number of 6
completed reviews?
7 A
The' review, is not the QC inspector's job.
~
8 Q
All right.
The terminology..then, would
.I 9
be for a reviewer of document packages; would'thatLbe'a 10 more appropriate phrase?
II i A
Yes.
12 Q
All right.
Reviewer of document packades;
'3 to complete those reviews on either a particular schedule l#
or.according to some quota?
15 MR. D0WNEY:
I object to that question I6 and its answer.
It-clearly indicates nonresponsive.-
It f
17 is outside of the scope of the proceeding and therefore I0 it is not relevant M R.. ROISMAN:
Mr. Downey, if you would 20 '
hold your tongue'for just about 30 secends you will'1 earn i
1 l
what the people are.
.If you remember the scope of the i
l 22 hearing includes QA and QC.
So if you can hold your l
23 tongue, just hang in~there for 30 more seconds, you are 24 going to find out a lot you didn't know before.
25
- A'
____i____________________.____
_________.__.________._m_________.______
jon8 54,520 1
BY'MR. ROISMAN:
2 Q
Now, Ms. Gregory.--
3 MR. ROISMAN:
Would you ~ read it.back?
4 (The reporter read the' record as-requested.)
S BY MR. ROISMAN:
6' l.
Q Ms. Gregory, if the question is in mind, 7
can you answer it yes or-no?-
8 A
Yes.
9 Q
Can you;tell me what. personnel. conduct 10' these document reviews?
Who are theythat you are 11 familiar with?
12 A
The QA revieu group.
13 I Q
And are they one of these groups thatfyou 14 mentioned earlier with whom you worked?
j 15 A
Yes, it i s..
le Q
Which is it?
17 A
The QA group, the'QA quality assurance, 4
18 i
of the final documentation.
J to j l
1 Q
Was that in the QES group or in the N-5' group j
20 !
A QES..QA, and N-5.
1 21, Q
Now, with rega'rd to the particular incidentsv j
33 J
can you tell me who was the supervisory personnel, either. j j
23 i:
\\
individual or more than one,'who you heard make theicommenc I
i 24 4
in question?
25 A
Gregg Bennettzen?
j I
f.
54.521 on9 l
l 1
l Q
And who is Mr. Bennettzen?
A He is the supervisor of of the N-5 groups.
3l Q
And who was in attendance at the time?
I
'l If you can't give me the exact names give me some idea 5
of a description of the group.
6 A
All of the N-5 group which included QES 7
review and N-5 status group.
3 Q
Were you also in attendance?
9 A
Yes, sir.
10 Q
Can you tell me roughly when did this 11 happen?
12 A
Three weeks ago.
13 Q
And at the time, as best as you can 14 recollect, what was it that Mr. Bennettzen said to this 15 group of people?
16
'A He told us that he wanted numbers.
They
)
17 had to have numbers and if they didn't get the numbers 18 the) were going to bring job shoppers in and replace all 19 of them and that they would be sitting there training I
20 people making $27 an hour to do their job.
i 21,
Q And when he said numbers, what did you l
[
22li understand him to mean?
23 A
He meant that he had to have a certain 24 number of ISO drawings completed to ANI and in the 25 vault turned over to the client within a time frame.
i 54 0522 jon10 1
Q Had you ever heard Mr. Bennettzen say 2
anything to that effect before or after that 3
particular event?
A About the job shoppers?
5 Q
Or about --
A The number system.
,Yes, sir, we were 7
pushed for 40 IS0s a week.
8 Q
When you say pushed for 40 IS0s a week, 9
could you just describe that in lay person terms fo r the 10 rest of us?
11 A
There is a certain section of piping that 12 is listed on an ISO drawing.
It contains all of the 13 welds, all of the piping, all of'the equipment, and 14 the hangers.
It has to go in as a full package concept.
15 It has to be reviewed, statused, and reviewed by ANI 16 before they can end stamp it. And when they have end 17 stamped it, then it is turned over to the client and it is 18 no longer Brown & Root's responsibility.
19 Q
And it is that review process which 20 constitutes the numbers, this 40 that you were talking 21 about, completing that review process, and one of those 22 would be one number?
l 23 A
One ISO is one number.
It can contain two
- 4 packages with it.
Or it can contain 50 packages.
25 Depending on what is depicted on the -- instead of saying I
.]'
jon11 54,523 i
1 i
l 1
t I
i isometric I am going to say blueprint of a certain I
2l J
section of pipics.
3!
Q At'any other time than the one that you d
I have described here involved in the records to the job 5
shoppers, did Mr. Eennettzen in explicit words indicate i
what the consequences might be if the numbers were not i
7 I met?
8 A
We were having meetings two or three times 0
a week, sometimes four times a week, constantly hammering to on the fact that we had to have the numbers.
We had so 11 many ISos that had to be completed and they had to be 12 turned over at a certain date.
They put us on 612s.
13 Q
Explain that, please.
What is 612?
14 A
612 is working 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br /> a day six days a 15 week, and they got us to 11 hours1.273148e-4 days <br />0.00306 hours <br />1.818783e-5 weeks <br />4.1855e-6 months <br /> a day six days a week.
{
(
16 They would tell us if we have the IS0s in we can have 1
1 17 Saturday off.
If we didn't have the IS0s in they would --
3 1
IB we would have to work Saturday, and if we didn't keep end2 lo production up we would start having to work Sundays also.
l i
20 i
i 21 1
1 23 1
24 25 l
l
54,524 sy31b1 1
.Q
'Any other statements.by Mr. Bennetzen 2
relevant to the question of the speed with which these 3
reviews were supposed to be done, that you yourself heard?
s' 4
A He constantly initiated new methods'for 5
speedy -- but you can only review an Iso so fast.
In order.
6 to.do a proper review on an' Iso, on a blueprint package 7
with X number of' documents in it, you have to be able to B
look at everything, review everything.
You cannot go by
. 9 numbers because everything has a different problem. Sometimesi 10 they're easy to do.
Sometimes -- it just did not give us 11 enough time to properly review the documentation.
12 MR. DOWNEY:
I move to strike that testimony 13 on the grounds t li a t there is no foundation of personal 14 knowledge about the time it takes to do an Iso package.
15 She testified that was not her job.
16 BY MR. ROISMAN:
17 Q
Ms. Gregory,'in the position that you held, t
18 did you have occasion to discuss with'QES and N-5 reviewers 19 what was involved in them reviewing a package?
4 20 MR. DOWNEY:
Objection, the answer. calls l
l 21 for.earsay.
1 22,
MR. ROISMAN:
I'm trying to establish the 1
23 ba. sis for her knowledge. That's not hearsay.
I l
l 24 BY MR. ROISMAN:
1 l'
25 Q
Go ahead, f
i i
.i
1 9
54,525 sy31b2
}
1 A
Yes, sir.
I helped them locate the 2
documentation they.needed.
I kept track of the documentation-3-
they needed.
When they had a problem, I kept a record of 4
the transmittal sheets of the problems.
I was very closely-l 5l working with them.
I knew how many packages they were 6 i working, how many. packages there would be in one'of these 7
' blueprints of the piping or' Iso's.
I was in the office 8
with them.
I handled the locating missing documentation.
9 It was all one joint project.
We all worked l
10 together.
11 Q
Thank you.
Are there any other instances 12 in which -- that you observed yourself, in which 13 Mr. Bennetzen was attempting to encourage the people who 14 worked for him to get the-work out on'the kind of schedule 15 that he had demanded of them?
16 A
Yes, sir.
17 Q
Can you indicate those, please?
I 18 A
This is. going to take more-than a yes or 10 no answer.
s i
20 Q
Okay.
j i
21 A
We were sitting there working.
Mr Bennetzen 22 j came through the room.
He hesitated and out of the clear 23 blue he made the statement, loud and clear, "Those that are 24 loyal to the company will stay and those who are not will k
i 25 hit the gate."
j i
1 l
1 l
54,526 l
t
~sy31b3 l
1 I,
1 Now I couldn't decide whether he meant this 2
for all of us, or if he had.been having a' personal problem 1
3 with one person.
1 I
d Q
And when he said that,.an'd you heard it,
.5 what did you think he meant?
What. did you' understand he i
6 meant by loyal to the company?
i.
7 MR. DOWNEY:
Objection.
She's already 8
testified'that she didn't know what 'he meant.
'Her answer I
9 to the previous question clearly indicates that.
10 MR. ROISMAN: Now l'7 asking her what she 11 thought he meant, what she understood, what she believed 12 he meant.
13 THE WITNESS:
I=consideredLit a threat.
14 BY MR. ROISMAN:
15 Q
Do you know of an employee at the plant by 16 the name of Bill Darby?
f 17 A
Yes, I do.
l i
l
-I 18 Q
Are you aware of any incident--involving i
10 Mr. Darby and Mr. Bennetzen that relates to any attempt by 20 Mr. Bennetzen to make Mr. Darby do something that, as far 21 as you knew, was wrong?
22j A
Yes.
t 23 Q
Would you tell me when did that event occur?
24 A
That has been, I can't give you the date.
25 It has been recent.
It has been within the last -- it has t
l 1
I
54,527 sy31b4 i
)
occurred about two or three weeks ago.
2 Q
And who1is Mr. Darby?
What is his position?
3 A
He11s the lead ~
the N-5 group.- ~0ne of over 4
the leads.
He is not the lead.
There.is Greg Bennetzen, 5
Terry Mafaney, and Bill Darby.
6 Q
Can you tell me what was.the event.that you 7
observed that involved Mr. Darby and Mr. Bennetzen?
8 A
I had gotten packages back from ANI that had 9
been signed off.
One of them did not have a QES review 10 cover sheet.
I cannot put the documentation in the vault 11 without a QES cover sheet.
I carried it into Bill Darby and i
12,
told him I needed a cover sheet.
He told me that he would-13 have to have the isometric drawing to' review it by and for 14 me to go bring the isometric drawing to him.
15 Greg Bennetzen was standing there and he said 16 "You do not need to review that document.
Sign it."
And 17 he signed it.
But according to the procedures, you cannot 18 sign QES review.
It h as to be your own personal QES review 10 of the drawing I mean of the traveler.
20 You~cannot take ANI's word for it.
I mean, i
1 21 you cannot take their signature as a final review. It has 22 to be reviewed by a QES reviewer and he must sign with the 23 statement at the bottom that he has certified that he has l-i 24 signed it in accordance with the procedures governing.18.2 25 of CP-QAP.81.2.
4
~
i
'54,528
- sy31b5 i
1 MR. DOWNEY: :I'm sorry.
'May I ask her to 2
repeat that procedure?
3 BY MR. ROISMAN:
4 Q
Would you repeat again-the procedure?- Is 5
that the procedure that you'are referring to here?
4 I
6 A
The procedure that'he violated was 7
LCP-QAP 81.2 QES review.
B XR. DOWNEY:
May I ask a clarifying question?
9 Your or1ginal testimony was it was 18.2.
10 THE WITNESS:
Isn't that what I just said?
11 MR. DOWNEY:
I thought you said 81.
12 THE WITNESS:
I'm sorry.
It was 18.2.
13 BY MR. ROISMAN:
14 Q
You testified earlier that there was a-time 4
[i 15 when the N-5 group and the QES group were merged into a -
1 16 single group?
17 A
Yes.
a' 18 Q
And at the time of that merger, was there-a i
19 training course that was implemented?'
i 1
I
(
20 A
Yes, sir.
)
l'
(
21 Q
And what was the purpose of the training-j i
l i
22 l course, as you understood it?
l j
j 23 A
To train everyone in QES. review and N-5 24 statusing.
25 Q
In'cther words, the purpose was to enable 1
i
- i
54,529 l.
l sy31b6 I
I 1
those'who had only been doing.QES-before.to now do' N 2 statusing.
And those who had only.been'doing N-5' stat'using 3
before to do QES?
i d
A That was the purpose.
.That wasn't the'entireh 5
purpose, but' it was a' purpose.
i 6
Q And did you also.take that-course?
7
~A Yes, I did.
P 8
Q And can you mil me when you went into the-9' course what mechanism was used to determine whether or not.
10 those who took the. course had learned what the course had 11 to teach?
12 A
We had an open book test and a closed book 13 test.
One was on Quality Assurance program.
That was the' Id closed book test.
The open book test was on the review of 15 hanger packages and isometric drawings.
16 Q
And did you take those tests?
17 A
Yes, sir.
18 Q
And was there a time at which you passed those:
19 tests?
20 A
I passed both of them.
One of them I flunked I
21 twice.
22 Q
And did other people who took.the test also 23 i flunk the test?
24 MR. DOWNEY:
If she knows.
2S i
1 m______-_
54,530 sy31b7 1
BY MR. ROISMAN:
2 Q
If you know.
3 A
The'first test that.was given as the closed 4
book test, all but two people flunked it.
5 Q
And'how did you know that?
6 A
Because they came in and said everybody has-7 flunke'd it and we are throwing it out. We're' going to give 8
the next testuas being the first test.
9 Q
And then what-was the next test?
10 A
The next-test was a test that we'had been 11 i given as a practice test, at the beginning of the course.
12 Q
So that this next test was a' repeat of a test
(
13 that you had already taken before?
I 14 A
That they had given us to-carry home to-15 study and see what we missed.
-l lo Q
And the test, when you took it for the first 17 time, were you given
'both the questions after that test 18 and the answers?
10 A
We already had the f i r st test that we took 20 we did not have the questions.or the answers to.
This was 21 the test that we all flunked.
l 22 ;
Q I'm sorr;.
I'm asking you about the trial i
23 test that you were given to take home to study.
l l
24 A
The trial test is the quality book that was j
o i
25 given to the QC inspectors when-they started.
.On one page
]
I
=
i
.i
. = _ - _ _ _ -
54b531 sy31b8 1a i
n questions!
I it had the. answers and on the other.page it had the L
2 All they gave us was the questions, but'everybody that had 3
a copy of the-book had a copy of'the. questions;and answers.
i 4
-Q Alllright.
That's what I want to.be.clearton..
5i After all'but two people-had flunked-the test, you vere.
i oi then given another test instead?
7 A
Yes.
8 Q
And'the other test that you-were given.is the 0
one which you had seen both the questions and answers to 10 before?
Is that correct?
11 A
Yes.
I 12 <
MR. DOWNEY:
I'm going t'o object to this 13 line of questions.
I don't see'the' relevance to the 14 scope of this proceeding.
15 MR. ROISMAN: It is coming.
16 BY MR. ROISMAN:
17 Q
Did you feel. after you had passed the test, i
i 18 that you were, at that point, fully qualified to.do the to QES N-5 review work?
20 A
No.
i 21 Q
How did the people who were doing the QE5 --
22 i excuse me, the QES and N-5 work learn to do their job, other 23 than by taking the test?
24 MR. DOWNEY:
O bj e c t.i on.
There's no foundation!
l 25 that she knows.
i
54,532.
sy31b9 I
f
'l BY-MR. ROISMAN:
2 Q
' Start by answering'.. if you know, how you
'f i
3 know ~and then tell me what you know.
d A
You had to have.so much book testing and 1
1 51 you had to have so much OJT.
You had to have 20 hours2.314815e-4 days <br />0.00556 hours <br />3.306878e-5 weeks <br />7.61e-6 months <br /> i
6 I Q
What is OJT?
7 A
. Chi the Job-Training. 'And then you had to 8
follow it up with X number of hours On the Job Training, 9
10 hours1.157407e-4 days <br />0.00278 hours <br />1.653439e-5 weeks <br />3.805e-6 months <br />, I believe it was.
10 Q
And how would you get your experience,0n 11 the Job Training?
What would be -- who would teach you?
12 A
It's very difficult because we really didn't-
~
13 i have anybody qualified to do.the QES review.
Either Bill 14 Darby and Ralph Darby and Betty Bernard were the only'ones 15 who had been doing QES review on hangers andLpiping.
16 However, people had been.uorking on it ever 17 since they had been i n th e r e.
I mean, they already had 18 they had beenworking in the N-5 program.for about a year, 10 a year and a half. They had been doing the work.
l 20' Q
So they had been learning the job while the': y 21 l were doing it, is what you're saying?
22 A
Yes.
A i
\\
end3 23 Q
You mentioned earlier Mr. Bennetzen had
\\
2d been setting down schddules for the completion of ~the' l
25
-1 Iso reviews by this N-5 QES group; is that right?
l 1
1 i
54.533 i
1 mg c A He'was pushing the schedules.
He's not 2
.the one that set the schedule.
3 Q
Okay.
All right.
I'm sorry, d
And.was the number of Iso's-that'had to'be 5
reviewed a fixed number that kept getting smaller as 6
more of them were reviewed and completed?
7' A
No.
There's still 40 Iso's a week..
They 8
had determined that if they did 40 Iso's'a week, they 9
could have it turned'over to the utility on a certain date.
~
10 End dp 11 12 13 14 1
15
\\
16 17 I
18 lo l
20 21 i
22 l
l 23 l
l 24 l
1 I
(
25 1
1 I
.s
_______--_-_-_-____O
f 54,534 l
- 4pbl
$111the. Iso's turned over --
1 Q
You mean 2
A All of the piping in: Unit l'would then be 3
turned over to the~ client at a certain date.
4 Q
So that at some point you would run out.of 5
Iso's to review?
6 A'
Yes.
7 Q
And at the time of your being terminated from B
. your j ob last Friday, do you know how far they had reached 9
.in terms of those reviews?
10 A
They told us'we had 136 left.
.They kept a 11 little thing up on the board with the numbers left, a little 12 time sheet.
I had made -- had listed all'the Iso's that 13 were remaining.
All of the -- an'd they had put.it up on 14 the windows.
And we were designating each-one to each' 15 individual.
Not a graph, it ~ was just a large list of Iso's.
16 Then, as t'
y would do the Iso's they kept 17 a running tally.
Shane Hines had kept a running tally on 18 what had been done and what was left.
And they would put 19 it up on the board, the remaining Iso's.
And the last I 20 saw the count at the time which was last week, Thursday.
21 before I came in on Friday. I didn't have -- I didn't.have
- l l
22 anything on Friday, there were 136 Iso's that were left.
23 Q
Now how many people were there who:conductedl 24 these QES N-5 reviews that we have'been discussing in that i
side 2 bu 1 25 particular job who worked for Mr. Bennetzen.
1
54c535.
l..
I
$2 Y
1 A
Approximately about 24.
P 2
Q And how many.of them were discharged at the 3
time that you were discharged last Friday?
4 MR. DOWNEY:
If she knows.
5 BY MR. ROISMAN:
6 Q
If you know.
7 A
Out of our' department, 14.
1 mean out of our 8
group.
0 Q
Now the remainders,-did that include Mr.
10 Bennetzen and his assistant'and deputies?
11 A
Yes.
12 Q-So that they make up part of that 24?
13 A
The total number working.for him made up 14 the total people in the department.
The 14 that were-15 terminated.'the balance then that was left.
to Q
Did you have an opinion as to whether or-not 17 the people who were left were the most or least qualified l
IB of the people who did the actual reviews themselves?-
I'm 10 not talking about the supervisory people, but just t h e 'a c t ual' 20 review people, whether the most or less qualified were left.
j t
21 Do you have an opinion about that?
l 22i A
Yes, I do.
)
23 Q
What would be the basis for you'r opinion to I
24 know whether one person was a more or less qualified reviewer 25
- r. h a n another?
i l
I s
r e
.--_.__.-__-_-__-_m
q
^
54,536 4pb3 1
A The-ones.who had been reviewing the longest 2
. was one basis.for: determining.
The ones who had actually 3
been producing, the ones who were more. qualified, the:ones 4
that were left had not been'QESfreview but.for a'veryJshort.
5 while.
6 Q
Okay, I don't want you to get into 3.he next 7
question.
I just want to be sure.
I'think you had stated 8
your basis for distinguishing between morecand less.
9 qualified.
Now I'm going to ask you, were th.e more qualified 10 people left after the firing?
11 I MR. DOWNEY:
I object' to this.line of question-12 There's no indication that this witness is competent to i
13 determine who was qualified and:who was-not.
14 MR. ROISMAN:
Well, she has just given her 15 basis, and you can argue about whether you think that's a 16 persuasive one.
But she has given it.
.She has told you.
17 she has taken you through'the training program, she's IB explained the responsibility and.roleiof on-the-job training.
10 She has testified to you that the basisEfor her judgment 20 about this had to do with two-things.
t i
21,
One, those people who had'been there the i
L 22 j longest and been doing the most of these..which ~ is'part of-23 their job training.
And' number two, those who had been j
.i 24 productive.
I believe that that forms more than an' adequate l
25 basis to give the opinion that she is now giving.
i.
i e
r
'l
- 54,537 4pb4 1
'You;may argue that you wish she had had more, 2
but I don't think there's any question that shes capable 3
of giving the opinion that she's giving, i
4 MR. DOWNEY:
She already testified that'she I
5;
-fic ked.the examination for QES twice.
If 1' understand her-l 63 testimony she flunked it the second time after.she. contended-7 that she had-the questions and answers.
8 THE WITNESS:
No, that-wasn't t'h e same one.
9 That wasn't the same test.
That ~ was~ the open book test.
10 MR. DOWNEY:
My notes reflect that.the witness 11 l
testified that she flunked --
12 MR. ROISMAN:
You will have'four chance to 13 ask her to clarify'that question, and we will find that out.
14 Nonetheless, all of that goes at best to-weight, and certaini 15 not to admissibility.
16 So the witness can answer --
17 Mi.
DOWNEY:
I don't want to belabor this 18 transcript with arguments back and forth, but I do believe 10 that the testimony of the witness shows she is not qualified-20 !
to render an opinion on this subject.
And I do believe that l
21 j
goes to admissibility, not weight, i
22 Assuning she meets. minimal qualifications for 23 expressing such an' opinion, then you are correct.
It'would. {
24 go to weight.
I contend'she doesn't meet those minimal l
25 qualifications.
i
.~.
l i
j
- _ _ __ _ u
~
54$538 4pb5 t
1 Secondly,'I object to this.wholeEline o f..
, l 2
questions, all the way back through the. training questions 3
because you forgot, Mr.~Roisman', to" establish afconnection t
4 between the training testimony,' the lay-off test 1 mony
~
5 this whole line of questions.
There's no ~ connections that 6
I can-determine whatsoever between the issue in this-7 proceeding and the testimony that you are eliciting f~ rom 1this 8
witness.
9 So I have a continuing obj ection on relevance 10 and I move to strike all the prior testimony beginning'with 11 the training testimony..
12 MR. ROISMAN:
I understand.your position.
13 MR. DOWNEY:
I'm.sorry for the interruption, 14 Ms. G r e g o r y..
I believe Mr.'Roisman's question was,'were 15 the more qualified people who came-or were they laid off; 16 is that right?
17 MR. ROISMAN:
Yes, that's fair.
You did a 18 nice job.
10 THE WITNESS:
Yes, they were laid off.
The i
h end A 20 more qualified people.were laid off.
21 i
1 I
22 l
23
'i
(
24 1
l-1 j
25
.]
1 4
i
\\
i
jon1 54',539-incan #5 I
MR. R6ISMAN:
I think I have no more 2
questions, but I would just like to take a short time
~
3I to review, d
MR. DOWNEY:
That's fine.
And I would 5
like to tell you in advance that I would like~to take 1
6 a discovery deposition of this witness conclu' ding the i
7 evidentiary portion.
There are more matters related
////
B' that deal with the affidavits you provided me last night.
9 MR. ROISMAN:
Discovery related to the 10 subject of this set of proceedings or discovery related 11 to something entirely different?
12 MR. DOWNEY:
Discovery related to these 13 proceedings and particular'ly discovering if many of these 14 allegations are in fact related to this proceeding.
15 MR. ROISMAN:
Oh.. wait.
The documen t s --
16 I have as ed the witness here the questions that we are 17 offering and the information that we are offering with te reference to this proceeding; we are not offering the in affidavits.
We gave them to you pursuan t to discovery go so that whatever is in there that relates to other 73 matters has nothing to do with this proceeding and we 22 are defining that scope.
23 N w, if yu have some discovery with regard to the questions which she is talking about now, that is 24 fine; if yu want to know about something else that she 25 l
l r
_._w.-
l jon2 54.540
~
I J
l said in here that relates to some other matter then we 2
will be happy to make her available to you for a 3
' deposition.
But not today;.not now.
l First of dl, I am not prepared.to d
5 participate in a deposition on the merits and, 6
secondly, I am not retained for that purpose.
That 7'
would be someone else.
So that CASE would not be 1
8 represented at the deposition.
7 MR. DOWNEY:
I will-review again these 10 affidavits over the luncheon break and I will inform 11 you of what I think our position is or what our position 12 is and what I think our rights are:with respect to-a 13{
discovery deposition over the luncheon break.
14 As you know, I am not familiar or 15 intimately familiar with the discovery rules.
te MR. ROISMAN:
Let me be very clear on that.
17 I don't think there is any question about that, about is the discovery of this witness as to the content or these l
in affidavits in the totality of this proceeding is 20 appropriate, assumng that there has not been an order 7,
issued closing discovery, and I wou?.d assume that you
- 7 could make an appropriate motion to reopen and that 23 CASE could either oppose or support and the staff could either oppose or support.
24 25 My p int is that, number one, this hearing-
.I
jon3
'54,541-1 is a subset of the whole hearing and it is limited and' 2
these depositions, whether for discovery purposes or 3
otherwise.are limited to the contention that'this is a
focused on.
5l Number two, _to the extent that if you wish 6
to -- if you will sieze the opportunity to have discovery as to matters that are outside of this, there is a 8
practical problem and that is that there.is no one here to 9
represent CASE and this is a CASE witness.
10 MR. DOWNEY:
I understand your Il representation of CASE is limited to this' subset of the 12 entire hearing.
I3 MR. ROISMAN:
And there is_no one as far as 14 I know in this. town who is able-to do that.
But IS Ms. Gregory does live here almost within walking distance 16 of this spot.
17 MR. DOWNEY:
Allow me to rev'iew these again 18 over the lunch break and consider your. objection and I.
19 will advise you of our position before we' resume.
20 MR. R0lSMAN:
All right.
And I am not 21 indicating that I am done.
I may have a question or two 22 afterwards.
But that is certainly the bulk of it.
23 (Whereupon, the taking of the deposition 24 was recssed at 12:55, to reconvene at 1:45 p.m.,
this t-I 25 same day.)
J
Jonl_
54,542
]-
- 6 I
' AFTERNOON SESSION-I~
2 (2:00-p'.m'.)_.
3
-MR.
ROISMAN:
On the record.
We have just completed-a brief luncheon 5l break and we are gathered here on the even of another 6
blackout in Texas, I-assume directly attributable to the I
failure to get the Comanche Peak Nuclear Plant on lire 8
and.I have a couple of questions for Ms. Gregory and.then-9 she will be available1for cross-examination.
10 Whereupon, 11 i
.MEDDIE GREGORY 12 having been previously duly sworn, was deposed and
~
13 testified further as follows:
14 E 7.AMI:: AT I O N 15 BY MR. ROISMAN:
lo Q
Ms. Gregory, during our morning discussion 17 I asked you a series of questions abou;'the training 18 course that you took in the last couple of months 10 shortly after the merger o f ' ?. h e QES and X-5' program.
20 Do you remember that?
3 i
21 A
Yes.
- \\
l 22 Q
And during our luncheon break I believe
.i 23 you and I discussed the question of making sure there was j
24 no confusion on the record so I am going to go.back over 25
.that questioning with you just so that we are very i
ob.
4 I
54,543 I
clear on it..
All right?
2 A
All right.
3 Q
During'the time that you were.taking the course and before it was'over, was there an occasion 5
during which.you took a. practice examination?
6 A
Yes.
7 Q
And can-you tell me did you, subsequent t o.
8 the time of taking the practice examination.'get to see-9 the answers to the questions.that you had been asked?
10 A
Not the practice exam, no.
I' Q
What did you see answers to?
12 ;
A A t.- t h a t p a r t i c u l a r time we hadn't'seen any
'3 answers.
I#
Q When did you see the answers?
d A
After we had completed the course and we I*
were given the practice test to take home and study and
-)
I7 play with, some of the QC inspectors had been given a IO book after they had the quality assurance program -- when i
'9 they began work at Comanche Peak they were given a book
- o after they had finished that course to where they took
[
7*1 their answers and they had the answers and questions both j
22 in the book.
23 It turned out that this was the same test,.
24 so they had books there so the-QC inspectors and we
'5 all checked the answers and checked the questions and tb:
jon3-54.544 1
i I
whole thing.
2 Q
Now, when you say it was the same1 test, 3
you mean the'same test as thecpractice test that you had
~
\\
A taken?
5 i
A Yes. It was a book that1had been;given to 6'
them after.they.had finished the quality assurance 7
program that you are supposed to have when you start S
working at Comanche Peak.
Just to see how effective the 9
course had been.
It wasn't anything maj or at that time-10 but they would have the answer on one page, the question 11 on one page, and you-would' flip it over and there.was the I'
1 1 b
{
answer.
It is just sort of a thing they.would go through-13 with you after-you had had this indoctrination program.
That's what the test was.
15 Q
Okay.
So can we for clarity purposes to refer to
- hat as the practice test?
17 A
Yes.
i Q
Now, after the course was over were you lol given a real test designed to determine or a.real test i,
'0 '
designed to determine how well you had learned the course? j-
,'i A
Yes.
22 MR. DOWNEY:
Objection.
IF she knows what i
I i
it was for.
1
- s MR. ROISMAN:
'Okay.
25 i
b I
_ _ _ _ _ _ - _ ~
Ljon4 54,545 1
i
.i I
1 i
BY MR. ROISMAN.:
i
~
}
2
-Q Did you know'wh you were taking the test?
3 A
Yes.
l i
4 Q
What was the purpose?
1 q
4 5i A
The final test, you mean?
i 6
Q-Yes.
The final test.
7 A
We had just completed the course for QES 8
N-5 review and this'was a closed book testLfor the 9
quality assurance program itself to see if we knew.what to,
the quality assurance program covered.
)
i 11 Q
All right.
Now, when you took these tests 12l at t'n e end of the course were there two tests that vou
- l 13 took?
14 A
Yes.
15 I Q
One of them was a closed book test?
16 A
Yes.
~
I 17 Q
What was the other one?-
18 A
The other was an open' book test on the i
19 l
QES review and the N-5 statuzing itself.
20 '
Q And when you took the open book test the 21 first time how did yqu do?
22 l A
I failed it.
I 23 Q
And how many others failed it?
l 24 A
There were four that failed it.
j i
i 25 Q
Did you take it a' second time?
I l
i i
_.________m.__.
. j on5-54,546 1
A Yes, I did.
2 Q
And how did you do?
3 A-I failed it.
's Q
Did you take it a third time?
5 A
Yes, I did.
6 Q
How did you do?
7 A'
I passed it.
8 MR. DOWNEY:
Excuse me, Mr. Roisman.
Could 9
I ask a clarifying question?
10 MR. ROISAMAY Yes.
11 MR. DOWNEY:
This series of t t. _ e e 12 i
examinations were all open-book?
13 THE WITNESS:
The open book test.
14 MR. DOWNEY:
You took it and failed, you 15 l
took it and failed, and then vou took it.and passed?
16 THE WITNESS:
Yes.
4 MR. ROISMAN:
That'is what I wanted to get i
clear, where the passes and fails were.
19 BY MR. ROISMAN:
20 Q
Was there also a closed book test.that you
I took?
A Yes.
I 23 Q
How did you do on that?
I 24 A
I failed it.
25 Q
And how did everybody else d'o ?
1
_____________a
jon6
'5 4 ' 5 4'7
'l I
I A
Only two passed it.
2
.q.
Did you-take it again?
3-A Not the same test.
-1 i
Q Did you take another closed-book _ test?
5 A
Yes, we did.
6 Q
And how.did you-do' on that?
7 A
We all passed it.
8 Q.
Was that test familiar to you when you'took
~
it?
10 A
Yes, it was.
II Q
What was the' test?
12 A
It-was a practice test that we had been given I3 to take home and study.
14 MR. ROISMAN:
That is all the questions on 15 that.
MR. DOWNEY:
I renew my objection to the
'I line of questions and my motion to strike the testimony as
'8 not relevant to this proceeding.
BY MR. ROISMAN:
'O Q
Ms. Gregory, at one time were you 21 approached for purposes of presenting testimony in this 22 proceeding by either representatives of CASE or 23 Ms. Billie Garde or one such person and asked whether j
's you would be willing to tell you r story in this 25 proceeding?
+
l
jon7 54,548 I
1 A
Yes.
2 Q
At that time were youlwilling to tell'your 3
story in any kind of an open proceeding?
d A
No.
5 Q
Were you willing to tell your story to anyone 6 I other than the hearing board chairman?
7 A
Yes.
B Well, only if -
before the hearing board 9
chairman only if it wouldn't become public knowledge as l0 to who I was.
II
~
Q Okay.
And now you are appearing in this I2 deposition.
This is not what you had originally agreed 13 to do; is that' correct?
'd A
That's correct.
15 Q
And wha t changed our mind?
16 Why did you decide to come to this proceeding now?
'7 A
There wasn't any reason.to keep my I8 identity secret anymore.
I9 Q
Why did you want to keep your identity a 20
. secret before?
21 A
Because I worked at Comanche-Peak.
22 Q
And what did that have to do with keeping 23 your identity a secret?
24 A
If it had been known that I was giving 25 i
information or testifying in any manner I felt I would i
.l I
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jon8
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be terminated.
2 Q
What was your-basis for that belief?'
3 A
Mainly my. fear was that.I would be fired d
because Greg Bennettzen, I know Greg and if he had known 5
-that I had agreed to testify in any manner lijustifelt 6
that he would have terminated me.
7 Q
Was there anything in particular that you 8
can remember that he said or did that made you; feel ~that 9
if you came and' testified in these hearings in opposition.
10 ta the position 1 taken~by the utility that you would.be l'
fired?
12
~A-Well, l' knew how~he felt about anybody
'3 that was testifying in the hearings.
Id Q
How did you know that?
15 A
There was public discussion during the 16 hearings of the people who were tertifying.
'7 Q
And did you hear was Greg part of some
'8 of those discussions?
I' A
Well, yes.
I 20 i
Q And you heard what he had to say?
21 A
Yes.
22 Q
Can you remember any of'the kinds of things, 23 if not the speciife words that he used --
2d
.l MR. DOWNEY:
I object to this.whole line 1
25 of questions as speculative and now calling for hearsay 1
4 jon9 54,550 l
I from the witnness.
I move
't o ~ strike the previous answer.
2 MR. ROISMAN:
She'has tescified as to'what 3
she heard or what the basis was for her belief that she would have been fired if she had testified openly.'at a 5
prior time.
That is not he'arsay.
6 MR. DOWNEY:
My objection has b'een noted.
7 BY MR. ROISMAN:
8 Q
Okay.
Go ahead.
A Well, I know Greg. -That is all I can say.
10 I know that he was very definitely against anybody who II came out against Comanche Peak and the discussion between 12 he and everyone else i n ' t h e.'o f f i c e that they were. filth, 33 that they were scum, and they were not worth tolerating.
Id Q
And subsequent' to the time that you
'S originally had discussed the possibility of' testifying in.
this hearing, uhat happened to change all of that to
'7 change your reluctance to come?
IO A
Why I decider to come forward?
It wasn't necessary to keep the identity a secret a n:, longer.
I
,o was terminated Friday.
21 MR. DOUNEY:
My understanding, Mr. Roisman, 22 and I think Ms. Gregory has been clear;on the point',
1, 23 that she no longer seeks confidentiality.
'I think 'by l
24 limiting her in the protective-order would save ourselves 25 all administrative problems.
ANd.her testimony seems to
jon10 54.551-O I
be quite clear that ishe has waived any claim of 2
confidentiality.
3 MR. ROISMAN:
I understand that and I would d
like to request that we retain the status of'the 5
confidential. arrangement until such time as we can.get' 6
an 01 clearance.
It is not for Ms. Gregory at this point 7
but for the problems of OI.
And I followed the 8
protective order approach of giving you the-information 9
that we have in our possession that had been generated by 10 Ms. Gregory.that was pertinent.to this, and I would like to II write OI claims ~so at the end of this week they willJbe 12 finished with the matters that she relates to,vhich is 13 why we are holding next-week'sfdepositions open and.I would request that we retain it in this status until the
'S conclusion of this week, for further instructions.
16 MR. DOUNEY:
As-I understand the protective
'7 order and the basis for it, it is at the request of te the witnesses to maintain the confidentiality of their identity and not in any way relates to 01's interest in 20 i keeping their identity secret.
Indeed, the four witnesses y
4 whose testimony has been deferred are openly referred to, n
22 their identities are not subject to the protective order, 23 and I see no reason to keep Ms. Gregory'.9-identity subject 2'
to the protective order in light of those other disclosures 25 and her testimony today.
j onll' 54,552 t
1 MR. ROISMAN:
Well, I would ask only that.
2 we attempt to either commun1cate with the hearing board 3
orvlth 01 to get clear direction on that.
I do not want.
~
d to.do something that is viewed as compromising, or 5 i particularly unnecessar11y comprosing something that 01 l
6 may be investigating.
7 Ms. Gregory is the affidavits that'you 8
have, it is my understanding have been submitted by'GAPP' or the OI investigators.
I simply did not want to do 10 anything that would unnecessarily jeopardize that.
11 So before we unilaterally here'make a decision that this 12
~
proceeding would be put on the public record now. I would
'3 request that we either. file the deposition this afternoon 14 or now or tomorrow morning, whichever, that we contact the 15 board and/or 01 and get a sense of where they.are coming 16 from.
17 MR. DOWNEY:
Well, let ne be clear, 18 Mr. Roisman.
These affidavits that 1-have reviewed carefully, I have reviewed them twice.
To my knowledge 20 they do not contain any of the allegations which were the 21 subject matter for direct testimony this morning.
22 MR. ROISMAN:
I agree with that.
We turned 23 them over to you because of our viewing of your-24 discovery request as broad as possible, and you 25 requested to have in your possession anything that we had 9
- j o n 12-54,553 1
and I have noticed that-it is.the-applicant's penchant 2
in these proceedings to take prior statements made: by 3
a witness and find out why.they didn't~ mention 4
the
_j things that they are mentioning in this hearing'in'their
- 5. i
[
entire statement.
So I could conceive of'a way-that you' could make an argument that if-I didn't.give it. to-you 7
I was depriving you of something that you considered a
relevant.
9 Without getting into'an argument with you 10 about whether it was relelvant or not' I just gave' it to 11 you.
But I agree with.you: I don't'think'that those 12 statements bear directly on the matters.that Ms. Gregory 13 !'
has testified to.
la j
MR. DOWNEY:
Well,,I would like to pursue 15
)
this notion of disclosing her-identity because I think to
\\
it has been waived by her own ~ testimony for the purposes j
?7 of investigating her allegations this morning.
18 1
As you know, we had no advance knowledge
)
19 of any of these incidents to which she has testified.
20 i
The matter in her prior
- affidavit had not been 21 described to us in any prior communication ~from you or 22 your colleagues, a nd I would like to facilitate an 23 1
g
[
expeditious investigation of these allegations b'y simply j
24 going to Mr. Bennetzen and others whose identities she has revealed in her direct examination and ask them their I
l 1
jon13 54,554 I
i version of these stories without'the necessity of 2
s ubj ec ting them to a protective order.when one is 3
clearly not required.
s As to the allegations contained in her 5
affidavit, so I view them as pretty much separate 6
allegations.
7 I-would agree to maintain-the confidentiality 8
of these documents until Friday, the'date on which OI 9
has committed itself.to completing the investigation.
10 Doesithat satisfy your coacerns?
11 MR. ROISMAN:
It goes 95 percent of the way tt 12 doing so and I would say it would go all the way to doing
'3 so if I didn't feel like there was an easy way to deal is with the other 5 percent.
15 I would suggest a very quick phone call and 16 get an answer to this.
I personally and on behalf of 17 Ms. Gregory, she does not personally have any problem 18 with and would expect that she would want to go back and 10 ask the people that she has identified whether these i
,o events happened or whether.they think they happened or i
21 not, and why they didn't know what their explanation is 22 and the like.
23 Obviously I recognize your right to do
'4 that.
I would like to just.-- and if youwant to do it
'5 now, because you would like to call those pecsle and say,
..,a f
54,555 i
'jon14
't I
hey,1 guys,-I want you to look at this now and thenflet's 2
get the chairman on the phone very.quickly and jus'iput t
3 the. question to'htm.
l 4
MR. DOWNEY:
Let-me suggest an alternative 5
point.
I, in light of what 'I think is a clearly 6-surprise nature of the testimony in the-sense ~that we.
7 have been using that word, I personally and on behalf of the applicants will pass cross-examination.
9' i
I would111ke to close the evidentiary.
10 q
I record at the conclusion of your direct, ash some j
questions in the nature of a discovery deposition on 12 specific allegations this morning to allow me to elicit 3
13 facts that will assist me in investigating her claims.
la l
Then I would suggest that we recall Ms. Gregory for her 1
15 formal cross-examination in this proceeding during next 16 week or during the time when these matters are all to be public anyway.
18 MR. ROISMAN:
All right.
Since I will not to i
be*here next week I can't commit to making her available next week.
I would need to talk to the lawyers who are.
i i
21 going to be here and Ms. Gregory as well.
\\
We could certainly make her available -- let
)
23 me just ask her.
1 24 BY MR. RCISMA":
25 Q
Do you have any plans'to travel anywhere.in
$g.
l l
l i
jon15 54,556 o
?
j I
the next two weeks?
2 A
No.
3 Q
And would you be available if. requested to 4
come back and finish whatever cross-examination the 5
applicant wants to do during.that time frame?
6 A
Yes.
7 Mk. ROISMAN:
Okay. 'The witness will'be 8
available and at this point, then, the only problem 9
would be availability of appropriate lawyer 10 on behalf of CASE, and I think we can work that out l
11 and we would be glad to do that.
l 12 MR. DOWNEY:
Then.why don't we proceed 13 along those lines and we can avoid at leas t.f o r the 1
14 moment the questions raised
'y this protective order.
15 I would, however, reserve the right to 16 bring that matter up with you again before the end of the d'ay because I think i'. is important that we initiate i
i 17 18 our investigation of these new allegations as soon as i
'o possible to prepare to deal with them in this proceeding.
\\
1 6 '
MR. ROISMAN:
Okay.
And I am sensitive to
-l 21 l 1
l that.
I would like to know if the staff has any j
i
,, I problems with what we are suggesting.
i 23 MR. GODDARD:
None as far as I am concerned.
MR. ROISMnN:. Doe s the staff.want' to do its j
l-25 cross now or do you also want to do something in the 4
1
'54c557 jon16
.o
.j'.
1 nature of discovery and postpone your cross?
2 MR. GODDARD:
Well _since attorney'for 3
applicant-has indicated that he is going to.go into a e
line of questioning which is in the discovry vein, i
5!
1 think it may-cover all_the questions I have,.so 1-6 would prefer to follow' attorney for.the applicants.
7 MR. DOWNEY: -And let me make~ clear.-one 8
add 1tional point, if it hasn't already been made clear,-
9
~
and that is,-Mr. Roisman, as I understood your 10 representations the entirety of Ms. Gregory's testimony, 11 her direct testimony with respect to the issue we are 12 litigating now, that is the issue of harassment, 13 i intimidation, or threats of-QC/QA personnel was.her 14 testimony this morning and that to the extent her 15 affidavit goes beyond those issues you are not seeking end6 to prove them up through her testimony.
17 18 19 l
2c 21 22 23 24 l
25
)
' ~
H l
1
Syjl 7/1 54.558' 1
.MR.
ROISMAN:
That's correct.
I am not going to 2
try to anticipate how the further. cross-examination would go 3
and that would be~ redirect and theclike.
But ' wha t I am d
saying is'that having stopped my' questioning of.Ms. Gregory'.
5 at this point, our direct. case on Ms. Gregory is.what you have 6
heard.
And we are not offering her' affidavits, nor.do we have 7
any intention of offering ~ affidavits ir support of that 8
. testimony.
9
'Now, there are other witnesses who are testifying-10 about things that.she is testifying to.
AndLobviously, we l'
-our " case" is-a combination of all that testimony.
.But you i
12 : can. rest assured that the' affidavits are not being' offered by 13 us as part.of this direct. case.
'd MR. DOWNEY:
Is that true of the matters'that.
15, arguably, are relevant to this proceeding, including the
~10 affidavits that were not included in-her direct testimony?
17l MR. ROISMAN:
Well, that's a little more difficult 18 to say, except to say this:
I believeLthat.any time, from this point on, any matters that are discussed in those 20 affidavits would be explored in the deposition of Ms. Gregory.
i 21 I would have to get them in under the n'ormal rules of 22 rebuttal testimony and/or redirect and that it is;not' 1
(
23 permissible for me to, in effect, present a'new direct. case l
24 based upon those.
25 Okay?
s.
f
. _ = _ - _ _ _ _ _
e
~!
1 SYjl 7/2-54.559 1
MR. DOWNEY:
All right.
l
.2 With that, I think we can adjourn thejevidentiary
-i i
3 portion of Ms.-Gregory's testimony,[her deposition'-- her d
evidentiary' deposition to be rescheduled by agreement of 5 ! counsel either during the week of July 23rd or the week of 3
6 July 30th, whichever the counsel agree upon.
7 MR. GODDARD:
The questions that'the Staff has'for B
Ms. Gregory will ' Int ' consid e red part of the evidentiary deposition if they have.no objection..
10 MR. DOWNEY:
None whatsoever.
11 MR. GODDARD:
I would just as soon do it after you 12 handle the discovery because'ir. may shorten things.
13 1
MR. DOWNEY:
That's fine.
j 14 l
So, we will adjourn for perhaps a very short time l
15 the evidentiary portion of this testimony and. proceed to a 10 separately bound transcript of discovery.
J 17 (Whereupon, at 2:23 p.m.,
the taking of the
'8 deposition was adjourned, to be resumed pursuant to 1
end 7 10 notice and agreement of counsel.)
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21 !
1 22 '
i
'Meddie Gregory 23 24 1
25 J.
]
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l s
.t CERTIFICATE OF PROCEED!::GS 4
j
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2 This is~to certify that the attached proceedings before the 3
.. j f
NaC COMMISSION t*
In the matter of: Texas Utilities Electric Company, et. ~ al, 3
Deposition of-Meddie Gregory (IN CAMERA)
Date of Proceeding:
Tuesday,. July 17, 1984.
Place of Proceeding:
Glen Rose. Texas 7
were held as herein appears, and that-this is the original a
transcript for the file of the Commission.
10 Suzanne Young
. official Reporter - Typed 12 13
_ d red OfficiddI Reporter'- Signature 15 16 17 I
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18
~ 19 i
23
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21
.]
22
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2D-TAYLCE ASSOCIATES REGISTERED PROFESSION AL REPCMTEMS NCRFOLK VIRGINIA b