ML20195D847
| ML20195D847 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | 07200022 |
| Issue date: | 06/05/1999 |
| From: | Srinivasan R AFFILIATION NOT ASSIGNED, SIERRA NUCLEAR, INC. |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20195D715 | List: |
| References | |
| ISFSI, NUDOCS 9906100056 | |
| Download: ML20195D847 (148) | |
Text
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION Before the Atomic Safety and Licensina Board In the Matter of
)
')
PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE L.L.C.
)
Docket No. 72-22
)
(Private Fuel Storage Facility)
)
AFFIDAVIT OF RAM SRINIVASAN CITY OF Scotts Valley
)
) SS:
STATE OF CALIFORNIA
)
Ram Srinivasan, bein'g duly sworn, states as follows:
1.
I am the Manager of Design Engineering at BNFL Fuel Solutions (formerly Sierra i
Nuclear Corporation). In that position I am responsible for the analysis and design of TranStor i
storage and transportation casks and related components. I am providing this affidavit in suppon of a motion for panial summary disposition of Contention Utah K in the above captioned proceeding to describe the ability of the TranStor spent fuel storage cask, to be used at the Private Fuel Storage Facility (PFSF), to withstand heat and temperatures under fire conditions.
2.
My professional and educational experience is summarized in the curriculum vitae attached as Exhibit 1 to this affidavit. I have over 25 years of experience in the design of nuclear power plants. I have participated in and coordinated the design and analysis of dry cask spent fuel storage and transponation systems, including the TranStor and the VSC-24 designs, and I have contributed to the Safety Analysis Repons of both the TranStor and VSC-24.
3.
I panicipated in, and am knowledgeable regarding, the design of the TranStor system spent fuel storage cask, in particular its capability to withstand heat and temperatures 9906100056 990607 DR ADOCK 072000 2 p
,-wnv
1 under fire conditions. Specifically, the TranStor* storage casks, to be used at the PFSF, are highly resistant to the effects of fire, as described in the Safety Analysis Report (SAR) for the TranStor Storage Cask at section 2.3.6 (attached as Exhibit 2).
4 The TranStor i
spent fuel storage cask system consists of a sealed, cylindrical, i
steel basket or canister (containing the spent fuel assemblies and pressurized helium gas) standing on end inside a ventilated, steel-lined, hollow concrete cylinder. The cask is 222.5 in.
high and 136 in. in diameter. The concrete cylinder is 29 inches thick. The TranStorspent fuel storage cask system is depicted in the PFS SAR in Figure 4.2-4.
5.
As described in section 2.3.6 of the TranStor* storage cask SAR, the thick concrete walls of the TranStor storage cask protect the spent fuel from the effects of fire.
)
While exposing the storage cask to an ambient air temperature of about 1500 *F. might cause the concrete near the surface of the cask to lose some ofits strength, it would not threaten the i
integrity of the casks or the spent fuel inside them. It would take a continuous exposure for a period much greater than the duration of a typical wildfire in Skull Valley before most of the cask wall thickness would experience a temperature above its design limit due to the low thermal conductivity and the high specific heat of the concrete. Thus, the storage cask would protect the canister and the spent fuel from the effects of a fire at that temperature.
6.
The potential for a TranStor* spent fuel storage cask to be damaged by the heat from a fire depends on the total amount of energy absorbed by the cask from the fire. I have reviewed the affidavit of Carlton Britton regarding the effects of a wildfire at the PFSF site.
Wildfires in the vicinity of the PFSF are expected to result in temperatures over 200 F. at the
. edge of the PFSF Restricted Area for less than 5.4 minutes. Britton Aff.17. Because the
. TranStor* casks would be located inside the Restricted Area, at least 100 ft. from any wildifire, the fire would not have a detrimental effect on any components of the TranStor cask system or i
4 the spent fuel contained inside.
i 1
i i
m
i YCduw
't.wv Ram Srinivasan Sworn to before me this b day of June 1999.
j Pasisn Anic4w4a i h T N <4 & g /g f 6 0 *=~ 2 % ' s ; %
v 2
w
!~
5:-ca c>a o cc. u N6tary Public (j wccm sgres ree. 2x.
p My Commission expires
/Ed8U i
i f
- hiY, h hh'CfblY
~bh N N' AY (W
i 9
r State of California County of SANIA CRUZ On 06-03-99 before tre, the undersigned, a Notary Public in and for said State, personally appeared RAM SRINIVASAN personally hn to me (or proved to tre on the basis of satisfactory evidence) to be the person (s) whose name(s) is/are subscribed to the within instrurent and acknowledged to me that he/she/they executed the same in his/her/their authorized capacity (ies), and that by his/her/their signature (s) on the j
instrument the person (s), or the entity upon behalf of which the person (s) acted, executed the instruTent.
i WITNESS my hand and o *' ial seal.
l MICHELE REYNOLDS l 3
Comm.1200813 i
g 1
NOTARY PURXX:AWOEMA j
MYC pules NCN 6 2002 Name MI REWT (typed or printed)
(Seal) e
l l
i l
l i
SRINIVASAN - -
EXHIBIT 1 i
i i
I I
1
INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCE RECORD Dr. Ram Srinivasan i
I168 Lone Pine Lane San Jose, CA 95120
. Telephone:(408) 268-7985 E-mail: RSrinivasa@aol com EDUCATION:
BE in Civil Engineering (with honors), University of Madras MS in Civil Engineering, University ofIllinois MS in Business and Taxation, San Jose State University Ph.D. in Civil Engineering, University ofIllinois PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES:
Member, American Society of Civil Engineers PROFES$10NAL REGISTRATION:
Professional Engineer, Illinois and California Structural Engineer, State ofIllinois PUBLICATIONS AND REPORTS:
Several technical papers in ASCE and other technical societies on various topics, including Piping Analysis, Seismic Soil-Structure Interaction, Post-Earthquake Analysis, Blast Analysis, Inelastic Seismic Analysis ofFossil Fuel Boiler Structure, Limit Design, Fatigue Strength of High Strength Steel, etc.
(See attached List of Publications.)
EXPERIE't NE
SUMMARY
Dr. Ram Srinivasan is presently the Manager of Design Engineering at BNFL Fuel Solutions. He has participated in and coordinated the design and analysis of dry cask spent fuel storage and transportation systems. 'Ihe systems include the TranStor* and VSC 24 designs. He has also contributed to the various sections of the safety analysis reports of the Transtor* and VSC 24 systems.
Dr. Srinivasan has a Ph.D. in Civil Engineering from the University ofIllinois, Urbana-Champaign, Illinois. He has over 25 years of experience in the design of nuclear power plants. For ten years he has been a consultant to the Electric.~.
Research Institute, Palo Alto, Calif ^rnia. He has actively participated in the various phases of the Advanced Light Water Reactor (ALWR) Program. This expenence includes the preparanon of the Utility Requirements Document (Evolutionary ar.d Passive Plants), Design Certificanon of the various vendor designs, and Conformance Assessment of the vendor designs to the utility requirements. He has also participated in the Life Cycle Cost Reduction Programs, including Operation and Maintenance Costs.
Dr. Srinivasan has extensive experience 'in engineering and project management ofpower plant structures and components. He held positions as Head of Structural Engineering Specialist Section at Sargent and Lundy, Chicago (1972 - 1980); Project Manager of several piping projects at Quadrex Corporation, Campbell, CA (1980-1982); and Senior Consultant at S. Levy Inc. (1984-1994). Expenence includes structural and engineenng mechanics, structural dynamics including seismic analysis and design, piping and pipe supports, and application of ASME, ACl, ASCE, ANSI Codes and Standards.
kr...... -.. _
Dr. Ram Srinivasan Page 2 utilities in several costs saving projects; eliminating u specifications, efficient design of small bore piping, snubber reduction programs, etc.
SPECIFIC PROJECTS cask spent fuel storage and transportation systems.
designs. The design includes the consideration of pressure, thermal, handli earthquake, flood, etc.). He has also contributed to the various sections of the Transtor and VSC 24 systems.
EPRI AdvancedLight Water Reactor Program. Key participant in the developme Requirements Document (URD) and assessment of vendor designs (ABWR, S conformance to the URD.
Third Party Review ofthe Commanche Peak Steam Electric Station. As a Group Lead Civil / Structural discipline, reviewed the design of the various structures, se (equipment, cable tray, conduit, etc.) supports. Also reviewed the structural desig NSSS Vendor and Architect Engineer.
e Pipe Support Reduction Program. Reviewed existing design of Small Bore Piping b and identified removal of those supports not required.
SDA.
1 Review ofASME Class / PipingStress Reports. Prepared detailed checklists based on Reports using the checklists. requirements (NA 3300) for Owner Review of Stre Independent Review ofMark / Containment Study:
utility commitments. The reports were then revi commitments.
Review ofSeismic Qualipcation ofMechanical Equipment. Performed an independent requalification of mechanical equipment (ECCS pumps, fuel racks, etc.).
Technical Training. Estkh'ished and presented training courses to utility engineerin Piping Design and Analysis;(3) Pressure Vessel and Componen Litigation AscordReview. Reviewed the litigation records for Houston Lighting a identification of any deficiencies in the design and construction of the South Texas Plants, in-depth technical Review of Piping Stress Analysis and Support Design performed by connecnon with litigation of the South Texas Project (client: Houston Light and Power).
Technical assistance to Commonwealth Edison Co. on their Snubber Reduction Program i
i County Stations (BWR) and Byron Stations (PWR).
PUBLICATIONS 1.
"On Site Staffing Requirements for a Simplified Boiling Water Reactor (SBWR)," presente ICONE-4 Conference in New Orleans, Louisiana, March 1996, i
1
Dr. Ram Srinivasan Page 3 2.
"A Snubber Reduction Pilot Program," presented at the ASME Pressure Vessel and Piping Conference, Chicago, June 1986.
3.
" Economic Application of Computer Analysis to Small Bore Piping Design." Presented at ASME
~ Pressure Vessel and Piping Conference, Portland, Oregon, June 1983.
4 " Application of Frequency Response Method in Post Earthquake Analysis." Presented at Sixth SMiRT Conference, Paris, August 1981.
5.
" Blast Effects on Safety-related Structures." Presented at Second ASCE Specialty Conference on Structural Design of Nuclear Plant Facilities, New Orleans, Louisiana, December 1975.
6.
" Response of Suspended Boilers to Earthquake Motions." Presented at ASCE, Power Division.
Specialty Conference on Electric Power and the Civil Engineer, Boulder, Colorado, August 1974.
7.
"Three-Dimensional Soil Structure Seismic Analysis Using Finite Elements." Presented at ASCE Conference on Structural Design of Nuclear Plant Facilities, Chicago, December 1973.
8.
" Inelastic Response of Steel Frames to Simulated Earthquake Motions." Ph.D. Doctoral Dissertation, Department of Civil Engineering, University ofIllinois, Urbana, May 1972.
9.
" Fatigue Strength of Bolted High Strength Structural Steel." Journal ofthe StructuralDivision.
Proceedings of ASCE, March 1971.
l l
1 SRINIVASAN --
EXHIBIT 2
y SAR-Transtor* Storage Cask Revision C Docket No. 72-1023 November 1998 2.3.6 FIRE AND EXPLOSION PROTECTION No significant fires are expected at the ISFSI. No combustible materials are stored in its proximity. The only transient combustible used within the ISFSI would be the gasoline or diesel fuel in towing vehicles used to move the casks. When these vehicles are in use, they move at very slow speeds and are accompanied by the plant personnel who would detect and suppress any small fires associated with fuel leaks. The ISFSI is protected from industrial and forest fires by the distance between combustibles and the ISFSI casks and by the open areas surrounding the ISFSI. Therefore, significant fires would not be credible at most ISFSI sites.
l Nevertheless, the TranStor Storage System design is highly resistant to the effects of fire. The thick concrete walls are capable of protecting the basket containing irradiated fuel. Although the exposed layer of concrete may lose a portion of its strength, it would not disintegrate from an exposure to flame temperatures on the order of 1,500 'F (as specified in 10 CFR 71). In addition, any fire would be required to bum for a long time (days) before much of the wall thickness would be affected. Therefore, the cask is capable of being safely unloaded should it be determined that a
. fire was significant enough to warrant such an action.
Likewise, no explosions of any significance are possible at the ISFSI site. However, the cask resistance to explosion overpressure is evaluated in Chapter 11.0. As demonstrated by the analysis, the cask can withstand any potential explosion that could occur at an industrial facility located reasonably close to the ISFSI.
~
1 2.4 - DECOMMISSIONING CONSIDERATIONS The first step in d*+
dssioning the TranStor" Storage System is to move the fuel. This can be done in a number of ways. Various potentials are discussed in References 2.3 and 2.4.
i The baseline darammineinning plan for a TranStor Storage System site is to transfer the basket into a TranStor* Shippmg Cask and ship the basket and the empty storage cask to a federal or
. private E,r;;;.'N+=6v.Mg facility. His decomminaioning method involves the least burden on the utilities because it avoids opening the basket and re-handhng of fuel assemblies, mimmizes radiation dose to workers, and provides a usable storage ask to the downstream facility.
However, this is only one of many attematives, as discussed in References 2.3 and 2.4.
If the worst case scenario evolves and the downstream facility is not available, the TranStor
. Storage System would be unloaded (in the sequence that is essentially the reverse ofloading) into the fuel pool. After that the storage cask and basket could be reused for other on-site waste storage or disposed ofin a nonnal landfill (the storage cask) and at a low-level waste burial facility (the basket). Because the basket exterior is clean and doesn't contact the storage cask interior, no 2-19
CERTIFIED COPY g
1 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
---oooOooo---
4 In the Matter of
)
- Docket No. 72-22 1
5 PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE
- ASLBP No. 97-732-02-ISFSI L.L.C.
6
- Deposition Of:
(Private Fuel Storage
- WILLIAM M.
WALLNER 7
Facility)
---ooooooo---
9 Deposition of WILLIAM M.
WALLNER, taken at 10 the law offices of Parsons, Behle & Latimer, 201 South Main, Suite 1800, Salt Lake City, Utah, on the 11 lith day of May 1999, at the hour of 9:00 a.m.,
before David A.
Thacker, a Certified Shorthand 12 Reporter, Registered Professional Reporter, Utah License No. 22-105417-7801 and Notary Public in and 13 for the State of Utah.
14
---ooooooo---
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 25 Associ ATEo PaorEssiox AL R E r o n T E n s, L. C.
lO % est linudnay, suite 2(H). % alt (Ac City. lltah 84101 1901) 522-144I.In (501l122 444I
f.
l lWJ 13 f
1 Q.
Do you believe that a rocket motor 2
explosion at the Tekoi facility would pose a 3
significant hazard to the PFS facility?
l 4
A.
I really have no way of saying yes or no to 5
that.
6 Q.
I want to ask you about one of the requests 7
for admissions that was filed by PFS as a discovery 8
request.
This is Request for Admission No. 2 in the 9
Utah K.
And it said, "Do you admit that potential 10 explosions of the rocket engines tested at the Tekoi 11 Rocket Engine Test Facility, assuming that the 12 rocket engines did not escape their moorings while 13 being fired, would pose no significant hazard to the 14 PFS or the ITP?"
And the state's response was, J
15 notwithstanding their general objection, " Admission
,' M 16 No. 2 is denied on information and belief."
Did you id 17 supply any information that would be grounds for l-J 18 denying that request?
L -]a
/~
19 A.
It's more an issue of at this point about 20 actually running the numbers, you're not going
,r"
>rL-4 21 to--you're not going to know for certain whether or 22 not there is a risk.
You're looking at a potential 23 detonation of--I believe that Tekoi can do test 24 firings of motors as large as the shuttle.
p 25 Q.
How big would that be, do you know?
t e-m
! t j
lL_a l
L
14
'J l
A.
I think that's close to a million pounds of 2
propellant.
The largest motor that they're 3
currently making is the Titan, and that is over 4
500,000 pounds.
5 Q.
That's Alliant who is manufacturing the 6
Titan?
I 7
A.
Right.
And those are calculations that I 8
haven't made.
9 Q.
Do you know of anyone who has?
l 10 A.
I would guess that Alliant Tech Systems 11 has.
12 Q.
Have you seen any--have you reviewed or 13 seen any such calculations?
14 A.
No, I haven't.
No, I haven't.
15 Q.
So would you have any reason for saying 16 that the Tekoi, that the potential for explosion at 17 Tekoi, would pose a hazard to the PFS facility?
18 A.
I would say that there is a potential that 19 that hazard exists.
20 Q.
Based on--
[7 L
21 A.
Based on my knowledge of open burn, open s
22 detonation operations from waste disposal.
23 Q.
And how do those operations pose hazards to 24 structures or facilities that are some distance 25 away?
c,J L
22 1
essentially the entire document to really know for 2
sure.
3 MR. GAUKLER:
Give him the entire document 4
to read.
5 MR. BARNETT:
This is it here.
It's really 6
not that long.
7 (Whereupon, a short break was taken.)
8 Q.
(BY MR. BARNETT)
Do you have reason to 9
believe that the description in Exhibit 3, in the 10 May 1974 incident, was correct?
11 A.
No.
I don't have any other knowledge as 12 far as just personal conversations.
13 Q.
And with anyone other than the person that 14 you mentioned?
15 A.
There have probably been other individuals 16 at Alliant, but I don't recall who it was.
17 Q.
Do you know of any studies or 18-investigations that have been done of the potential I
19 for rocket motors to escape test stands at 20 facilities like Tekoi?
21 A.
No, I don't.
22 Q.
Have you done any calculations or 23 assessments?
24 A.
No, I haven't.
25 Q.
Do you know whether rocket motors have E
V l
h 23 1
escaped test stands at facilities similar to Tekoi?
2 A.
I don't.
3 Q.
Do you know if, hypothetically, if a rocket 4
motor were to escape a test stand at Tekoi, do you 5
know the likelihood that it would fly to and strike 6
the PFS facility?
7 A.
A number, no.
(
8 Q.
Do you have, based on your professional 9
knowledge, do you have an idea?
10 A.
I would say that the potential exists.
11 Q.
But would you know whether the potential 12 was high or low?
l 13 A.
I would say that the potential wouldn't be 14 something that you would commonly expect to occur.
15 It would be an unlikely or--well, I guess I would 16 say it would be an unlikely event.
It would be 17 something that would disrupt the operation and shut 18 it down while the industry would do an investigation 19 of why it happened,.
20 Q.
The operation would shut down.
It would 1
21 shut down--
22 A.
It would shut down the testing operation.
23 Q.
I was referring to the likelihood of 24.
whether or not the motor would strike, any motor 25 that escaped, would strike the PFS facility.
E l
25 1
goes with it, I can't say that I've ever really seen 2
a motor that's been strapped down to it.
I've seen 3
it.
4 Q.
Do you know anything about the design of 5
the carriage and how that would be done to reduce 6
the likelihood of a motor escaping?
7 A.
There's a lot of reinforced concrete there
[
8 to use as a thrust block.
9 Q.
And where is that located relative to the 10 motor?
11 A.
That would be located in front of the 12 motor.
The motor would be pointed into that thrust 13 block.
14 Q.
And are you aware of anything else?
15 A.
Not really.
16 Q.
Are you aware of any procedures, test 17 procedures, that are used to prevent a motor from 18 escaping or to reduce the likelihood that a motor 19 would escape?
20 A.
No.
t 21 Q.
You mentioned the thrust block.
What's the l
l 22 purpose of that?
23 A.
The thrust block is primarily what they use E.
I 24 to measure the thrust, the stress and strains that 2b they're collecting during the test firing.
l t
i
26 1
Q.
And how does that work?
2 A.
It's a lot of concrete, some of it sticks 3
above ground, a large portion of it sticking below 4
ground, in an effort to secure, to have a fixed 5
point that they can measure the force on that point.
6 Q.
Is that point on the block--is that a point 7
on the block?
l 8
A.
I believe so.
I'm not real sure.
9 Q.
And the rocket, which way is the rocket I
10 oriented, the rocket motor, when they fire it?
11 A.
They can be oriented either horizontally or 12 vertically.
13 Q.
When they're oriented vertically, are they 14 pointed nozzle up or nozzle down?
15 A.
I would say that the nozzle would be up.
16 Q.
So that the rocket motor would tend to go 17 down, the thrust from the nozzle would tend to drive 1
18 the motor down?
19 A.
That would be my guess.
20 Q.
Going back to the question of rocket motor 1
21 explosions at the facility.
I'd like to introduce l
22 another exhibit.
This is Exhibit No.
4, and it's a 23 letter dated 26 June 1997 from Alliant Tech Systems, 24 Bacchus Works, Magna, Utah, to Stone Webster 25 Engineering Corporation.
' E
p F*
27 1
(Exhibit No. 4 marked.)
2 Q.
(BY MR. BARNETT)
This document was LN 3
produced by PFS during discovery.
It's Bates No.
4 03122.
Have you seen this before?
5 A.
No, I haven't.
f l
6 Q.
Could you look at the last page of the 7
letter, table two.
Table two is entitled Buffer 8
Zone Distances.
And it has an explosive quantity in j
l t ]
I %J 9
pounds on the left-hand column, and then distances l
10 with pressures in terms of p.s.i.
across the top of 11 the chart.
Do you see one of the entries in h
12 explosive quantity is 1.2 million pounds, and the i
13 chart indicates a buffer zone distance of 7,970 feet i
14 for 0.5 p.s'.i.
overpressure.
Does that sound like a 15 reasonable estimate, based on your knowledge of j
16 relationship between explosive quantity and h
17 distance?
Does that sound like a reasonable lJ 18 distance?
19 A.
Yeah, I have no reason to believe it 20 wouldn't be.
m
'^*2 21 Q.
And if the explosive quantity used at Tekoi R
22 were limited to 1.2 million pounds or less, do you
--- J 23 believe that 7,970 feet would provide a safe offset n
24 distance?
25 MR. NELSON:
I'm going to object, lack of a
1
[d 2B L
1 foundation.
2 Q.
(BY MR. BARNETT)
Could you answer that?
4 3
MR. NELSON:
You can go ahead and answer.
["
4 THE WITNESS:
Okay.
I would say that from L~
5 the standpoint of overpressure that may be the case.
[~1 L~d 6
From going back to this document, one of the things
[~]
7 that they talked about also was material being L
8 kicked out in a detonation.
That would have a much 9
wider range than actual overpressure in some p"
10 instances.
w 11 Q.
(BY MR. BARNETT)
So do you believe that 7-q L~J 12 materials being kicked out from an explosion would F9 13 pose a greater hazard, a hazard at a greater LJ 14 distance, than overpressure?
f~
L 15 A.
That I don't know.
16 Q.
Looking at the other quantities of c~J' L
17 explosives on the table and the other distances 18 given for offset.
Do you believe, based on your 19 experience, that those distances are reasonable?
Do w{
20 you have reason to believe that those distances are V
L_i 21 wrong?
r-1 22 A.
I wouldn't expect that Alliant would supply LJ 23 false information.
l rd L~J 24 Q.
But based on your professional knowledge of r-1 25 open burn and open detonation?
i L_J l
l l
F'l
)
L~J l
u i 29 1
A.
Without going back and looking at the 2
equations used to calculate that number, I really E
3 have no way of answering that question.
4 Q.
And have you looked at those equations that 5
you mentioned regarding the relationship between E
6 safe offset distance and explosive quantities, have 7
you looked at that for--
8 A.
I have looked at that from the standpoint E
9 of open detonation for waste disposal operations.
10 Q.
Have you looked at that from a standpoint 11 of Tekoi from a rocket motor explosion?
E 12 A.
No.
13 Q.
Setting aside for the moment rocket motor 14 explosions and rocket motors escaping the carriage I
15 at Tekoi.
16 A.
Uh huh (affirmative).
17 Q.
Are there any other activities at Tekoi I
18 that you believe would pose a significant hazard to 19 the PFS facility?
j 20 A.
I don't think so.
The only other activity 8
21 out there is they do do some detonation testing of 22 explosives.
23 Q.
And what do they do?
I 24 A.
They will do quantities of up to 50 pounds 25 I think is what Alliant said years ago.
I
32 1
transported from?
2 A.
Most of these would be transported from the 3
Bacchus Works.
4 Q.
And what route would they take to Tekoi, do 5
you know?
6 A.
My guess is Highway ill, and then from 7
there probably jogging by Kennecott and out to I-80.
8 But that's just guessing.
9 Q.
Is there any other route that you know of 10 that they would take?
11 A.
They could also ship things by rail.
12 Q.
And how would they get to Tekoi ultimately 13 by rail?
14 A.
They would have to offload somewhere along 15 I-80 and then transport by truck to Tekoi.
16 Q.
Is it possible that rocket motors could be 17 transported through Johnson Pass from Bacchus Works 18 to Tekoi?
19 A.
I would say it's possible.
20 Q.
Other than the transportation of rocket 21 motors, do you see any other activities that take 22 place at the Tekoi site as posing a significant 23 hazard to the PFS facility?
24 A.
Not other than already was mentioned.
25 Q.
Other than the potential for explosions and ru~
h 33 l
1 other than the potential for a rocket motor to 2
escape its test stand.
I 3
A.
Right.
4 Q.
Going back to what you did to provide 5
information for the discovery responses.
You said I
6 that Brad Maulding also provided information for 7
those responses.
Is that correct?
8 A.
No.
Brad reviewed what we had drafted up I
9 and then sent it on to Connie.
10 Q.
You say we.
Is that you?
l 11 A.
Myself for Tekoi, and Bronson Hawley is i
12 also in Brad's section.
13 Q.
So you drafted material, and who else, 14 Bronson Hawley?
15 A.
Those probably would have been the only two l
16 that Brad looked at, to my knowledge.
17 Q.
Did he do any independent analysis or I
18 calculation or assessment of hazards, do you know?
l 19 A.
I wouldn't' expect him to.
20 MR. NELSON:
When you say he, you're 1
21 referring to Brad Maulding?
l 22 MR. BARNETT:
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
23 MR. NELSON:
Thank you.
24 Q.
(BY MR. BARNETT)
The First Request for l
25 Aemission regarding contention Utah K filed by PFS I
34 1
read, "Do you admit that activities or materials at 2
or emanating from the Tekoi Rocket Engine Test 3
Facility, other than potential rocket engine 4
explosions or rocket engines potentially escaping 5
their moorings while being fired, would pose no 6
significant hazard to the PSF, ISFSI and the ITP,"
7 and the ITP is the Intermodal Transfer Point at 8
Rowley Junction.
And the state replied, 9
"Notwithstanding the general objections stated on
~,
10 page 19 and 20,"
they objected to the phras'e 11 activity and materials emanating from, and then
,l Ld 12 notwithstanding these objections and the L]a 13 qualification described in the introduction, 14
" Admission No. 1 is denied based on information and 15 belief."
']a
[
16 Do you agree with that denial on the basis 17 of information and belief, of the request for U
18 Admission No. l?
19 A.
I don't follow you.
20 Q.
The request for admission number one read O,
21
.that, "Do you admit that activities or materials 22 emanating from Tekoi, other than potential rocket
[~a 23 engine explosions or rocket engineers potentially 6
24 escaping their moorings while being fired, would il 25 pose no significant hazard to the PFS facility."
LJ C
L_J
35 1
A.
Yeah, I think there is a potential hazard 2
here.
Those instances, and quite possibly E
3 transporting the motors in and out of the facility.
4 Q.
So when the request asks for hazards other 5
than those posed by rocket engine explosions or E
6 rocket engines potentially escaping their moorings, 7
that would leave what, in your--
8 A.
That would leave transporting motors to and M
9 from the facility.
Or transferring motors to the 10 facility and from the facility they shouldn't have 11 any propellant in them.
12 Q.
Request for admission No. 2 on the same I
13 page read that, "Do you admit that potential 14 explosions of the rocket engines tested at Tekoi LJ 15 Rocket Engine Test Facility, assuming that the 16 rocket engines did not escape their moorings while 17 being fired, would pose no significant hazard to the 18 PFS, ISFSI or the ITP."
And the answer read that, N
19
" Admission No. 2 is denied on information and i
L~)
20 belief."
Do you agree with that?
21 A.
Yes.
22 Q.
Do you have any information regarding 23 rocket motor explosions that you--in addition to t'-
24 what you discussed today?
Fl 25 A.
No.
LJ C-
l 36
(
1 Q.
Request for admission No. 2 beginning on 2
the-same page and continuing on to the next page 3
read, "Do you admit that activities or materials at 4
or emanating from the Tekoi Rocket Engine Test 5
Facility would pose no significant hazard to the
~
And the answer read, "Not 7
withstanding the objections, the State denies the 8
request on information and belief."
Do you agree
~
9 with that denial?
10 A.
Yes, I do.
11 Q.
Do you have any information other than what O
12 you discussed today, regarding the hazards 13 potentially posed by the Tekoi facility to the PFS 14 facility?
O 15 A.
No, I don't.
16 MR. BARNETT:
I don't have anything else.
17 MR. GAUKLER:
Take a break.
i 18 MR. BARNETT:
Why don't we take a break.
19 MR. NELSON:
Yes.
20 l (Discussion held off the record.)
l 21 (Whereupon, a 5 minute break was taken.)
]
22 Q.
(BY MR. BARNETT)
Back on.
23 What investigation or inquiry or assessment O
24 did you perform in response to the discovery 25 requests to provide information to answer the
,L
v-
'l 1
discovery requests?
)
l 2
A.
Just my personal knowledge of the I
3 operation.
j l
4 Q.
So you did not do any separate calculations 5
or assessments or research?
6 A.
No, I did not.
7 Q.
You mentioned that calculations or the t
8 relationship between quantity of explosives and safe
'u 9
offset distance.
f'"
10 A.
Uh huh (affirmative).
N 11 Q.
Would you consider that, based on your i
i,l i
'md 12 experience and knowledge, to be a standard 13 calculation that's used in the industry?
{}
14 A.
Yes.
I'-
15 Q.
That's a standard relationship that the f~l 16 industry practice would rely upon?
LJ 17 A.
Yes.
It's either DOD--DOD has F~l
'u 18 requirements, ATF has requirements.
[~l 19 Q.
ATF being--
L_y 20 A.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.
And then l-21 the explosive manufacturing industry has their own.
[~'
22 Q.
And do you think--are they generally the ty 23 same or are they different?
24 A.
I'd say they're similar.
[^]
25 Q.
They would produce similar offset, safe Lm WD L-
l l
38 1
offset distances, for a similar quantity of 2
explosives?
3 A.
Right.
4 Q.
Turning to one of the State's answers to 5
interrogatories.
Do you have a copy of that?
This 6
would be--this is interrogatory No. 1 on Utah K.
7 MR. NELSON:
What page are you at?
8 MR. BARNETT:
Page numbered 34 at the 9
bottom.
I 10 Q.
(BY MR. BARNETT)
The interrogatory reads, 11 "To the extent the State does not admit admissions 12 3,
18, 24 and 28 above, identify the specific 13 activities or materials (specify type and quantity) 14 at or emanating from the Tekoi Rocket Engine Test 15 Facility," and then it lists other facilities as 16 well.
17 On page 35, and this is letter E, the 18 answer reads, "Incidentr, related to the testing of 19 military weapons or rocket motors at or emanating 20 from the Dugway Proving Ground, Utah Test and l
E 21 Training Range, or the Alliant Systems Tekoi Rocket l
g 22 Test Facility, such as accidental explosions or 23 detonations of propellant, explosives, or rocket
)
l E
24 motors, a misfire weapon hitting the ISFSI of,"
I l
25 think that should be or, "ITP, or potential E
5 1
electrical problems caused by smoke and particulate 2
from a rocket motor test fire."
l l
3 Do you believe that potential problems 1
4 could be caused from particulates from smoke from a 5
rocket motor firing?
6 A.
I don't know.
7 Q.
From PFS to the rocket motor facility?
i 8
A.
I don't know.
9 Q.
Do you know who suggested that that might i
10 be a problem?
11 A.
I don't know that answer either.
12 MR. BARNETT:
That's all I have.
Paul?
13 MR. GAUKLER:
Look at his documents.
14 MR. BARNETT:
We'd like to look at the 15 documents you brought.
16 MR. NELSON:
Let me see those.
17 THE WITNESS:
Okay.
l 18 (Discussion held off the record.)
19 MR. GAUKLER:
You're free to go, Bill.
20 (Whereupon, at 10:35 a.m.,
the deposition i
21 was concluded.)
22
---ooooooo---
23 24 25
- 3 I
4 1
1 IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 5
-x 6
In Matter of:
Docket No. 72-22 7
. PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE, L.L.C ASLBP No.
8 (Private Fuel Storage Facility) 97-732-02-ISFI 9
_x l
10 l
11 Washington, D.C.
12 Wednesday, May 19, 1999 13 14 Deposition of MARVIN RESNIKOFF, was called 15 for examination by counsel, commenced pursuant to 16 notice, at 10:10 a.m.,
at the offices of Shaw, 17 Pittman, Potts & Trowbridge, 2300 N Street, NW, 18 Washington, D.C.,
before Karen K.
Brynteson, 19 Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public.
20 21 22 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C.
20036 (202) 842-0034
128 1
A Yes.
2 Q
And what is your basis for trying to apply 3
it to commercial as well?
4 A
Because it is my understanding that most 5
accidents take place'while during takeoffs and 6
landings, and not during flights.
If I were to take 7
into. account flights, I would have to take into 8
account all the flights in the country, not just 9
those at Salt Lake City.
10 And I was using that kind of statistic, so 11 I would focus more on the number of accidents that 12 take place within a certain radius of an airport per 13 year; I would focus on that statistic because that 14 seems to capture the truth of what is happening l
15 here.
16 Q
I have two questions based upon your last 17 answer.
First of all, what statistics do you have i
18 with respect to radius, accidents within a 45 mile 19 radius of an airport, beyond 45 miles?
Would that 20 be.beyond the radius that you would consider to be 21 significant, more than 45 miles from the airport?
i 22 A
I don't know the answer to that question.
1 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 i
l LE '.
/
IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - JOHN LOUIS MATTHEWS enz 1 ruz 2 1
1 WITEDSTA35CFAMEPICA 1 APPEA?ANCES:
2 NCC'. EAR T5n!0RI C0e(ISSION 2
3 3 FOR TEE 3RR7 DOR:
4 IntheMatterof
)OccietNo.72-22 4
fndG.Kelax,Es.
) AS'.li No. 9773202-!!iSI AssisAg;Ancggy'ggyyygg 5,Fg :2 m
)
5 Offi:e :f the Attutey Gesen1
" I" "
I 160 Eut 300 Exth, 5th fic:r 6
1 6
Salt !. ale city, 3 i4 n H g73
(?ti ate Ital it: rage
)t!?CSI:!ONOF:
7 TOR TEE Ap?MCAM:
7 Facility)
)
i F421A.Gaukler,Esq.
) JOU '0013 MAnm3 Enut Blake, Esq.
g I
9 SEAN, ?n"" MAN, PCT S E RCERIDGE I
Atteneys at hw 10
- te depcsitica cf 20s LOC:5 MAMEENS, a 10 23005 Street,N.I.
11 witness in de aben entatled cause, taken befers Washingts, DC 20037-n 28 12 LANIME ! HIE:. TING, Registered Pr:feutonal Reperter n
13 and Metary Pahlic in and fx the State cf Utah, at the 12 14 law officu of FAM0f3, BEE 12 i 'AUMER, 201 $xth Main, 13 INDEI 15 salte 1900, Salt Lake City, Otah, en the 27th day cf 14 N 3Ess pgg 16 May,1936, c:cr.encing at 9:00 a.m.
15 JCEN LOCIS EMEDS 4
17 16 Examination by Mr. Caukler.....
3 ll 17 19 18 gggIgiT3 20 19 EXHIBIT 50.
FA2 1
20 1
Map................ 11 22 21 2
SafetyAnalysisReport....... 52 23 22 3
A:cident Investigation Beard Repert 64 24 23 25 24 25 PAGE 3 PME 4 3
4 1
PR0CEEDIIGS 1
1.
!as.
2 J0EN :CJ:S $! TEDS, 2
Q.
And the etner 50 percent is the censulting for 3 caned u a witness, fer and en behalf c! the Applicant, 3 thetwocontra: tors?
4 being first duly sworn, was exuined and testified as 4
A.
Ise. ! ass then that. I don't-I'm sed 5 fell:ws:
5 retirst, het I haven't bass able to tigere ont det hav.
6 EXAMInfl0B 6 to get it done yet. I'm not as asart as I shes1d he.
7 hT 2. GA E,!R:
1 Q.
So you and up dchg more than you want to de B
Q.
Would you ple u e state year full n u a f u the 1 ::metimes?
9 re::rd?
9 A.
Iss,sesatisse.
10 A.
John Led Matthere.
la Q.
Rat's your ruponibility u military advisu 11 Q.
General Matthews, l's going to be asking yon 11 to the Gentner?
12 sne gestixs this muning. I'll try to make my 12 A.
Esil, primarily I deal dth the relatimehip j
13 questics as clear u pcssible.
13 betweenthanoveense'sofficenedthemilitarr 1
14 A.
oksy.
14 actidties is stak aat give him advien sa potential 15 Q.
If at ny point yen don't understand a 15 ispect of mL11tarr actidtias, enteh legishtima.
l 16 question ef zine will yen piene ask me to clarify it?
16 trionaly asser sheet unc and related issane.
l 17 A.
Enre.
17 Q. RatisSIAC?
1 il Q.
What is ycur present position and egloyer?
18 A.
Base lea 11gesmat sea closers.
)
19 A.
Well, I'm a mL11tary adriser to the severser 19 Q.
And the issue with respect to BR E is what!
20 of Utah and I'm also a coassitant to too defense 20 A.
En11,ofcourse,theimpactafclosed 21 contreetnre.
21 facilities in any state, you keer, has esonesLe ispect.
22 Q.
So what portien cf your time is allocated to 22 se that's our prisery ceanera.
23 being the military advis x to the Governu ?
13 Q.
How 1 cog tava you been military advisor to the 24 A.
Aboet H percent.
24 Governu?
15 Q.
R=ghly 50 percent?
25 A.
since octobes of 'H.
ASSOCIAI a.D PROFESSIONAL REFOKILIC5 - (501) 322-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR,RPR i
L
M THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAOE - JOHN LOUIS MATTHEWS i
pat 5_
pact 6 5
6 1
g.
And dat was y=r pcsiti:n prior to %tder 1
A.
Yes.
2 ;3117 2
Q.
hw long were ya Carcander fer the Air i
3 L !vastheAdistaatSeassalofUtakskickis 3 Naticaal Gard!
4 caemander of the Estional Guard. I had that for 12 l
A.
Foraheetthreeyears.
I 5 years.
5 Q.
hd what were ycur respensibilities er 6
Q.
hd what were your duties as Cczander cf the 6 p:sition prier to the Air National k ard?
7 Kati:*.a1 k ard for Ctah?
?
L Well, thes ! vas a part-tian guard maa and am 3
A.
Wa u, c a naading the National Guard. The 8 edacator.
3 sational Guard in Utah has a variety of activities, both 3
Q.
h d yc3 were an e h eator d ere?
.10 Asg and Air National enard, which Mad =e attack 10 L At tisprios tigh scheel ! vas the principal
- l helicopter troep, a special forces troep. It has 11 of Tigrier ligh School and principal of Diana Jaalor
- 2 engianers and actinary mus. It has in the Air satieaal 12 Eigh scheel, both in Freve.
13 guard, air retsalers and the 299th naags Castrel 13 Q.
Ecwicagwereyeuinthesepositiets?
- ( squadren which handles an of the air traffic over the 14 1.
I ses as edneater for abent 17 years skick 15 Utak rest & Training aange. Electronto instauntim 15 incledad abset, let's see, foer years as a teacher and 16 squadres, air usebet support squadres and a large 16 then the rest as sa adiasistrator.
17 linguist unit.
17 Q.
You ny you were a part-time gurdamin at that
- 8 Q.
A large tat unit?
18 time?
)
13 A.
!.iaggist.
19 A.
Iss.
20 Q.
2.at were your resp:tsibilities prior to 20 Q.
And what did you do as a part-time tardstan?
21 becoming the Ge:aral Cemander cf the Utah htional 21 L rir airplanes, have i s.. I never could
!!! kard?
22 believe ther paid us to es that.
21 A.
IcomunedadtheAirIstional9eard.
23 Q.
Thatmeansyoulovedit.
24 Q.
Rewles;wereyouacas:darofthe--that 24 L h t's right.
25 was the Utah Air Natienal kard?
25 Q.
Wat type of airplanes did you fly as far as FAGE 7
_ PAGE B i
8 1 the Air National kard? You were a tardsman in the Air 1 hase, se fra sousse. I sent to tes and hae-1 2 htic al kard at that time?
2 ses in the EDIC, and that's hee I get my emuLesina and 3
A.
Tes. I started ont is f-86s and Files and 3 anjosed is geslagt. Thus I went es active daty after I
( then so west into transports, C-97, 5C-17, C-116s,
{ gradasted, 5 Ic 135s. I also had a stint as an instructar for United 5
Q.
And how long were you on active duty?
6 Airlines, instracter puot. And befers that I une sa 6
A.
rear years, as I sail 7 active esty isi the Air Force.
7 Q.
That's when you were the instructor pilot?
I Q.
hw long wera you on active duty in the Air I
L foe. Then, of eseree, shea I came back is 9 Drea?
9 1219 I becem full-tias.
10 A.
About four years.
10 Q.
As put cf the cuander of the Air htional
'1 C.
And what did you :o en active duty in the Air 11 Guard 1 12 A.
Tes. So fra '79 te '94 I una fall-tias.
12 ?cres?
13 L I was na instracter pilot.
13 Q.
Are you familiar with the Private hal Storage 14 Q.
And what airplanes were you instnetor pilot 11 project?
15 L tea.
15 for?
16 A.
I was in Basic flight Scheel, which use F33s.
16 Q.
And dat's your familiarity?
17 L tall, as the utlitary adriner to the Goveener 17 Q.
T-33s?
18 L Dh-hek (affirmative). Most of the aisplaans I il I have hasa assigned as his adriser a that issse, so 19 fine are saw is the Air Force Wases. It's kind d sed.
19 I sesk with Canais anhanma and the Departamat of 20 Invireensatal gna utr a that isses, 20 Q.
Technobgy marches on, right?
i 21 L That's right. And se dans q age.
21 Q.
And eat have you done on that issue so far?
12 Q.
1 knew the feeling. And prior to being as 22 L
Oh, need a 1st at things and I've had, yes 23 instructor pilot with the Air Fcrce, what did you do?
23 knee,sesyea1&asaneronmercationewithyesandgame 24 A.
ten, of oserne I vest threech flight scheel 24 to a samhet of aestings. hasissur just gettaa sensated 25 erself and then prise to that I was sa onness, yes 25 and try to hosp the speemer semented a her the shala r
A550 CIA A LD YKOFE551Ul%L RErUK1LIGl-(501) 322-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR, RPR W
IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - JOHN LOUIS MATTHEWS PAGE 13 PAGE 14 13 14 1
- Q.
Arethereairpla:esinvolvedotherthanthe 1
seally the heavier or longer reage firing ocenes to the 2 Apacehelicepters?
2 sest out nur ersatte Peak as the ispect arm. Granite 3
A.
Oh, yes, y-16s and F-ils.
] Peak is on the m et end of year asp.
4 Q.
Ar.dthathaskeeninrecentyearstteyhave
(
Q.
Sc the impa:t area is Granite Peak, fer the 5 had that type c! trair.itg exercise?
5 lenpr rnge, this w:ald he for the longer ras;e reckets i
A.
Yes.
6 andartillery?
?
Q.
Ar.y cther trainng exer:ises that you are 7
A.
Wateauy.
8 aware of that are condacted ca % p ay?
I Q.
teredotheyfirefr:s?
9 A.
En11, of course Dogsay is mader the Utah test 9
A.
There's a s aber of firing pelats. The 155s 10 i fraining Range so there's a lot of activities going on 10 caessaly fire fra as area hetgeen Ditte and English 11 at the Utah fest & Training naage. But as far as Deguay 11 Vinage to the seeth of Stark Road and they fire to the 12 itself is concerned, the only other enercias that I's 12 southeast. And is addittaa, they have fired fre-if 13 ante of vene la the past where there was ranger 13 yes look on year asp and it says MLchael Assy Airfield, 14 training at Deguay, but that as langer ocents, as far as 14 shese the seed 'airfielda is located, they have fired 15 I haos, orifitdoes,itoccursonanirregularbasis.
15 fra that area y aesth, northuest toserds tig lesentala.
16 Q.
"hefirstcateg:ryyoureferredtois li so these have been the tuo primary areas for regular 11 artilleryfiring?
17 artinary firing.
18 A.
Tes.
18 Q.
So they fire awa # fra Et;11sh Village?
Il Q.
Rat tpe of artinery is fired, what type cf 19 A.
Yes. Their firdag points are estany to the 20 shells,doyouknow?
20 sest of hglish Village 'arth and south of stark nond.
21 A.
Wan, they've fired everything fra 155 21.
Q.
- o you bellee that the artillery firing of 22 self-propound to rockets, they've aves fired the-- I'm 22 theserocketsand155:andotherweaponswouldpeseany 23 trytag to think of the name of the missile that the Amy 23 hazard to the Private Ital Storage fa:ility?
2( nses. I'u think of it in a miante, I'll give yee the 2(
A.
I have as ser of hasuing that for sare. I 25 anos in a mLoste, but I will. So it's a vide variety.
25 knou-- and it uns atac, is shat I ses trying to rammeber PAGE 15 PAGE 16 15 16 1 that the Asur sees. The only one that I voeld wonder 1
A.
It is~ if you look at est is onlled Sigson 2 ahost son 1d he the firing northsest into the Big 2 Bettes and then go east faen sisyses Bettes, 81gson 3 unnatain area.
3 springs is just off Duguur to the east.
(
Q.
Arey:nfaciliarwiththesafetyprocedures
(
Q.
So ene sheu landed there, that you're aware i
5 that are used by the A:my when firing these weapons?
5 c!?
6 A. ~ fes.
6 A.
Near $1syssa springs. Acteauy, these was 7
Q.
And what are tacse safety precadares?
7 debris and sen shrapnel that eatseed the easygesund, I
A.
Wau, they have a process in skish ther 8 ses ur o derstanding.
I calmiatethetarget. Then they have to calcalate the 9
Q.
Art you aware of any cther incidett of any 10 amount of esplosives, the charge that ther yet with the 10 ispect off the N guay Proving Groced?
11 arti nary she n. And them ther-- and they identify a 11 A.
I e ast.
12 safety soon aroma the outside of the ispect area, had 12 Q.
You referred to Apche helicopter training.
13 nasally before they give a fire order they revies the 13 Wheredcasthattakeplace?
1( safety area to sabe sure that the ispect is going to 14 A.
Een, it takes plass is a vasisty of areas la 15 ocene withis the safety seen, and hoperany it does. It 15 the west desert. Useauy ther try to-- se a yearly 16 doesn'taisers,bethopefullyitdoes.
16 hasis they adjust enes ther'se geleg to traia. Det 17 Q.
Are you aware cf whetter there's ever been an 1? vbes they're in joint trainias, la the recent past ther 18 art:11ery shell er other irpa:ts off the Dcqway traiting 18 have operated in the 1spect area does near the slapsee 19 range?
19 settee. I hans est seen the operations osdurs for the la A.
Yes, I a.
20 activity this year se I don't kaar esastly share they're 21 Q.
Andwhatincidentwasthatl 21 planning to train and shame they're planaiag to fire.
22 A.
I kast of at least one incident is shid as 22 Q.
You said the west desert area. That's off to 23 ispect occurred very near the simpse springs 23 thewestcfthisnap?
24 casyground.
24 A.
The seat desent ares, is at mLad, inclades 25 Q.
Andwhereisthatlocated?
25 Dogsay and the Utah test a Tsaising area, basionny. so ASSOCIA I 2.D FRUFE551UN AL REPOR 1 t.M5 - (501) 323-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR, RPR
l i
I IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - JOHN LOUIS MATTHEWS I
PAGE 17 PAGE 10 17 il i
1 it's a lugar una than inst Dagear.
1 Q.
hd if Bey were down bebw Stark Mad they 2
Q.
Rat direction do they fire? tat weapons de 2 wculd fire to the :ath?
3 the Apade helicopters fire in their testing?
3 A.
Uh huh (affirmative).
(
A.
The aircraft is equipped with.30 minisater 4
Q.
Wataretherangeoftheweaponsthatthey 5 cannon, it has 2.15 rockats and it fires the Eenfire 5 fire ii terms of miles, do ycu hu?
Thef on't deal is nues, ther deal in d
E missile.
6 A.
1 Q.
Anddoyeat:winwhatdire:ticastheyfire
? kilmsters.
3 Q.
h kihmeters, then.
3 theseweapcas?
9 A.
It vonid be hard for as to say-- to escinde 9
A.
I'm not sure I can give you b pui== range 10 directions, but ! venid say to you that they fire-- ther 10 of the sentire, but I sonld think that it vos14 be is 11 cften fire in the Lakeside range, which is in the acrth 11 the range of three to four miles.
l 12 una of the Utah fast E Training lange acess I-80 to 12 Q.
And that would be the kngest ratge cf the 13 the north, chy? In cases where they have been involved 13 weaponstheyfire?
14 injointexercisestheyalsohavefizeddoesinthis 14 A.
Iss. But I don't saat at testimony to say 15 portion of nugvay, either up here or dava here.
15 that is the w = = range bocasse I don't know that.
16 Q.
Ycu're poicth; to the-16 Q.
Et the Hellfire would be the cae with the 1?
A.
cedar mountains and the sigsaa auttu area.
1? h:gestrange?
18 Q.
And do yen Ltew which ditection they fire 18 A.
It voeld be, yes.
19 frc:? to they fire away free hglish Village?
19 Q.
Gehgbacktoweweretalkingabxtthe 20 A.
Tes. They would normany fire to the 20 artillery firing that the Arzy does in tems cf 155 and 21 northwest if they were up here or to the sosth if ther 21 rockets, aat w xid be the range of these weapcas, the 22 were down here.
22 sheilsthattheyfire?
23 Q.
Soifthey'reintheCedarMxntainsareathey 23 A.
Therockets,youkaov,theycango20mLlas.
24 w=1d fire to the n:rthwest?
24 In fact, the 155 can reach ont sad toech you at about 15 25 A.
Yes.
25 miles.
PAGr. 20 PAGT, 19 19 20 1
Q.
Do y a see t.ny hatard posed to the Privats 1 aos they pack up and move and they rapidly set up and 2 r;e1 Sterage facility !rce the helhepter training 2 fire again so basicany, yoe kaar, it can be a anuber l
3 activities cetteted at kgway?
3 of different laestions withis the esercise period and
(
A.
If there vare a hasard it zoald be as a reasit 4 over the unas that I have described. Usuaur they 5 of an inacesrate firing.
5 don't try to go ostside the areas that have been 5
Q.
An you aware of any inaccurate firicqs with 6 identified as suitable impact unas by Dogray.
? respect to the helicopter tniab; at hgway?
?
Q.
And the suitable impact &Ieas, again, are the B
1.
I'm not svare of any specific incioents of B etesbyGratiteHauntain?
9 sither Baufires or rockets that have ispa.ted other 9
A.
Ter. yhat's one. There's seus does south, as 10 than in the impact areas. losever, I don't know of all 10 I say, by tispoon Battaa and there's others up north by l
11 their actinties, but I'm not asere of any specific 11 WigMeestata.
12 Q.
30 all these IIaining exercists fire tcwards 1
12 accidents.
13 Q.
You referred to trsichg exercises in recent 13 ceoftheimpactareas?
l 14 years of the Air Tercs and Army ecstcted at kgway.
It 1.
yss.
15 A.
Uh-bek (affirantive).
15 Q.
Areyoua.iarecfanyotherstheyfire?
16 Q.
Eherearethosetrainkgexer:isesccadacted, 16 A.
No, I'm not aware of any others, sosever, I 1? venidn't esc 1sde others, I'm jsst am not anare of them.
I? do you how?
II A.
They vary from year-to-year foe kner, abat 18 Q.
lihat type of weapons are fires ir these j:itt 19 ther - if you're trying to trata, for 14 stance, 19 exercises?
20 artillery nee, if you send them to the same firing point 20 A.
nau, there's boats, rockets, basic arti11 err, 21 each time there isn't auch training that goes on. Bo 21 laufire slamiles, cananas from both fised wing aircraft 22 you move arourd and give them chauengen. And also in 22 and houseptors. So there's quta a vuiety of weapeas.
23 artillery training, one of the issues is a rapid move, 23 Q.
R at type of bombs are used, dc you b ow?
24 setup and fire. So you want to be in a position where 24 1.
nsaan11y they use the practice boabs, bat not 25 yee have them setting iqi, firing, now they're is danger, 25 alvers.
A550 CIA 1 t.D PROFESSIONAL REPORTERS -(801) 322-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR, RPR
IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - JOHN LOUIS MATTHEWS PAGE 21 PAGE 22 21 22 j
1 Q.
ht practice he yea iean what?
1 Q.
N yz see these icint nerdses pesing ny 2
A.
Well, they ha w a u nM charge. Ioncantell 2 hazardtothePrivateFaelStcragefacility?
3 where the bee kit, but yet don't blos a lot of staff 3
A.
Only if there were stray seapons.
4 up.
4 Q.
Areyouawareofanyinactcutsideofthe 5
Q.
So basically it's an hart bcmb with a small 5 igact areas w'.th respect to ease exerdnes?
l 6 charge to identify dare the bc2 hits?
6 A.
I've described one to yes.
1 A.
Right.
7 Q.
That's the one that was down by Si::pson Butte?
l.
Q.
Thatpcsesnotatard?
8 A.
res.
9 L
- 30. And I say that's not escissively the 9
Q.
Again, I take it on these joint exercises,
)
10 case, but in many cases it is.
10 they f:11cw the saae precedures that y w talked abcat j
11 Q.
And ten they do use light beds, do you know 11 befcre in ta:as cf safety procedures?
12 what type cf tombs they use?
12 L Ch,yes,aluers, i
13 1.
I's not sore I could assuer that.
13 Q.
Always?,
14 Q.
Et again, the tanbs would have ate of these 14 A.
Uh-hah, absolutely.
15 i:vact areas we've described?
15 Q.
Areyoufar.illarwithactivitiesregarding 16 A.
Uh-huh (affirmative), they would be, reek, la 16 Mittael1:ty Airfield?
11 allinalnaad of coarse, they ba d other areas, as 11 A.
- ras, i
il yes hase, in the Utah Test i Iraining hange.
Il Q.
And what's yatt kn wledge with respect to
)
19 Q.
Tdght, ile'll get to that.
19 activities at Michael A:ty Airfield? ilhat happens 23 A.
Soyouhavethesefightersesmingisand 23 there?
21 participating in this and also doing see additianal 21 A.
Well, one of the things that happens is that j
22 trainingwhilethey'reatit.
22 it's need as a reesvery base for aircraft on the Utah 23 Q.
At the Ctah Test & training Rage up to the 23 feet E Training hange that have hang unspeas. It is 24 north?
24 ssed as as aircraft delivery base, large aircraft 23 L !as.
25 someties land these with casge. In soms of these PAGE 24 PAGE 23 23 24 1 esercises it's metaally used as na airfield for deplored 1
A.
I think I provided bainally the seus 2 military salts that come ost, het year, for instamos, 2 informatiesIprovidedta'yes.
3 I believe at Air National Saard sait fram Eingnes Falls, 3
Q.
Justasyou'vetoldmeacw?
4 Was task deployed to Dagway and operated ont of Michaels 4
L !as.
5 with r-ils, and helicopters use it saastians as a 5
Q.
Doyoubelievethatflightsinandoutcf 6 kgway,MichaelArmyAirfieldatDugwaywouldposeany 6 deploymentsituation.
1 Q.
Do you know approximately how many flights go 7 hatard to the Private Ftal Stcrage facility?
8 oct of Mkhaels Army Airfitid?
8 L hading and taking off fr a Dagssy, I was1A be L I think it's vesy issugalar. 2 venidn't have 9 susprised if it catand any hasard. I seeld think that 10 a saber for yes. I asas, I dea't think there's a 10 any hasard voeld he from overflight rather than specific 11 consistent medier that you could project.
11 I n ding or tdooffs.
12 Q.
YoucetwithaCr.HarvinResnikoff,anexpert 12 Q.
Have you date ny eval:ation of the pctential 13 fer the State with respect to this proceeding. N yen 13 hatardofoverflights1 14 ' recall that?
14 A.
Bass I done an evalentias?
15 A.
unevia-15 Q.
Yes.
16 Q,
Resnikoff.
16 L no.
17 L Resnikoff. And he is d att 11 Q.
YoureferredtoMichaelArmyAirfitidbeing Il Q.
An expert for the State of Utah with respect 18 the place tare planes on the Utah Test & Traiting Range 19 to this pt::eeding. to ycu recall meeting with him?
19 led with hung babs?
20 -
A I prehably did. I was is a anoting with a lot 20 A.
Ther could land.
21 ofpeople. I don't think I was at one with him by 21 Q.
Couldlandwithhungbeabs?
22 himself.
22 A.
reak.
23 Q.
Do you remember providing any itformation to 23 Q.
N you know how oft a that ecetrs?
24 atybody regarding flights in and cut cf Agway, Michael 24 L I think there's scenthiar-I think that's 25 almendr besa gathered, hassit it, is rest infomation?
25 Army Airfield at hgway?
ASSOCIA A m.D FROFE55101%L REPORTERS. (801) 322-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR, RPR
i IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - JOHN LOUIS MATTHEWS
_ PAGE 25 PAGE 36 25 26 1 I eaald jest as some refer to that. I don't han it in 1 those.
2 front of so. I's eene it's sere accorate than dat I 2
Q.
I'm going te shcw you a zap of the Utah Test &
3 can g:,e you.
3 Oraining Pn;e. That has been marked as Ce;:siti:n
'l 4
g.
- oyouseetheladingatF.ic
- aelA:ty 4 ?.xhihit 3 to Ernsa Eawley's deposition so.ve won't
'l 5 Airfield :!;' anes with h:9 hubs Fcsing any hazard to 5 mark it again. On the sap you'll see there's three 6 the Private y;el Stuage facility?
6 areas cutlhed in bl:e, basi: ally in the western part :f
'l
?
A.
It depende on the flight path eming is. I 1 ;tah, the hett 2 area outlined in bice that h :13 des e don't how what the-- the landias at schael ia and of 8 Granite Peak, that's the Dc;uay Pr:ving Greend, errect?
i 9 itself certainly woeldn't, is my opiaise, Pese any 9
A.
Right.
10 hasard.
10 2
And then right ab:ve it there's ar.cther area 11 Q.
M you how the flight path they take?
11 stlined in bice, ud that's the south rn;e ! the tah 12 A.
No. And I weeldn't knew that, ps kaos, bued 12 Test &trainingRnge?
13 on where the prohlan accorred.
13 L Uh-hek (affin attee).
14 Q.
Escuse me? Say that again.
11 Q.
AndthenacrthofIi0thereisanctherarza 15 A.
nesed as dere the prehlen meerms. Yes 15 catiir.ed in the, and that's the acrth rage of the Utah 16 h ow, if they had a - where the base ordessen eeeerred, 16 festIfrainingRange?
I1 where ther were at the taan, where ther had to roters to 17 L !as.
Il get to their destination.
Il Q.
Tirst cf all, where do the trahing exercises 19 Q.
So you would need to hew where the pr: bis 19 take pla:e en the south Utah Test & Training Range?
20 oc: x ted to deterr,ic how they wculd get bsck to their 20 A.
Are Yes talking anest-skid traleing 21 destination?
21 esercise?
22 A.
Tee, I weeld think se, becanes the air 22 Q.
That wculd hvelve hung beabs. Do you how?
23 traffic people weald probably asks a decisies as to her 23 A.
Woll, yee're leeking at the greemd 24 they go based as share they are. ther hate certait 24 repeesentaties of Degear and Utak feet E fraining lange.
25 corriders based as shese they are and try to falles 25 Utah test & Training asage is as air pian Air PAGE 27 PAGE 28 Il il 1 sperations fly neamp ant this eras.
1 Q.
And you wacldn't trew that you had a hung bcab 2
Q.
And by 'this area'?
2 atil you tried to release the txab; isn't that correct?
3 A.
They release-- well, it's the esterior est11ae 3
L Tes. act if fee're eating the case, thea yes
( in hine that yee been hace es the ser.
I have to sesepeias that these is seek a thiat es huma 5
Q.
Yes say bha and I think it's probably green.
5 errer and la the enes er hessa neuer semstimes seitches j
6 L-Whatever. Aireseft eyesate la this total 6 are svitehad them they're not seppened to be svitehad.
o' e. Mr aloue ordneses la the areas mt are 1 so I weald suggaet that per shoemties is cearest 1
a 8 described, that yes have jaat an==ha hese ther eaa 8 pamded that the pilot operates is acesedance with the s
9 ispect the groemd with their ordneses sad anzzy their 9 staednad operattag pescadares.
10 ordanace throughest this total area. They jest saa't 10 Q.
Are yon aware of any h atance t ere weapon 11 release it necept is these specific ants.
11 systes have been used prior to entry into the area 12 Q.
Isn'tittruethatifthey'reflyingtothe 12 wheretheweaponsaretobereleased?
13 areas d ere they're going to release the er h ance, the 13 L In the Air recent 14 weaponsystemsarenotarmed?
14 Q.
In respect to the Utah fast i Training Range.
15 L separe117. m t's the ples.
15 L I have se tafeeneties ebest that.
16 Q.
- hat's your understanding of dat the studard 16 Q.
Now, do yos bou dere the hung beats have 11 heenidentifiedinthepast?
11 pro:thres at:1 18 A.
That's right, mt von 14 he sa 809 for the 18 A.
I de set.
il 19 Q.
Assuming that a hung bomb were identified ever 19 P ot, 10 Q.
Standard Operating procedue?
20 the Eldcat Noontain area, that's the aren between the 21 site for the south training range?
21 A.
!*a.
22 Q.
Andthattheywoalf.Onlytratheirsysteet 12 L Uh-hsh (am==tiveh 23 when they got to the area t ere they were going to 23 Q.
Do you tsow ut route they wocid take to 2
relenethebeabs, correct?
24 MichaelArayAirfield?
25 A.
Uh-hah taffissatival.
25,
L I des't. nessess asemelly it voeld depend ASSOCIATED PROFESSIONAL REPOKA EM5 - (801) 322-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR,RPR
IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - JOHN LOUIS MATTHEWS PAGE 29
_ PAGE 30 25 20 1 somehst sa what activities are going es on the ramp at 1
Q.
At Midaal A:sy Airfield.
2 that tiss. so the air traffic contral arpaisation 2
A.
No.
3 shich has responsibility for the aircraft has to 3
Q.
Are you familiar with d ealcal z niti cs t u t 4 anessvar his safely to a point abers he can land at 4 ray be at tupay Previtg Grcund?
3 hper.
5 A.
I'm plag to ask ros to restate that question 6
2 Are dere standard cperating precetres fcr 6 becatse I think there's ses they're not familiar with, 7 meuvering his safely to that rcute?
1 so I'm certainly not fastliar with them.
8 A.
Tes. The p eferred resta soold be a B
Q.
Would yea describe fer se d.at ycur 3 predotamined corridor.
9 faxiliarity is with respect to chemical asitions on 0
Q.
And the ccrrider would be oce to remain over 10 Ocpay Proving Grxad.
11 the Utah Test & Training IW.;e at Cupay Proving Ground 1 11 A.
I kaar that, one, ther de tuting of systems
- 2 A.
Iss, that's correct.
12 skick have the capability of destroying chemical
- )
Q.
It would also te cae to avcid any popalatiz 13 maitians, and ther de these la specific facilitiu.
it areaserwherepeopleare-.
1( And I knee mise that they have sa provases senasians 15 A.
Ios, that's dse encrest.
15 discovered esapens that were-have bass there for some
- 6 Q.
Do you know what happens to hug hets once 16 Period of time that sere not perisesir identified.
li de plane has lar.ded at Xidael Army Airfield?
17 Q.
h w, when we talk about chemical u niticas, 18 A.
Ther no m ally-they have sa organisatica at 18 d.at'sthedefinitioncfachemicalamition?
19 Dup er which has se s capability to deal with that 19 A.
Hall, ur endarstaedtag of chemisal-I geass 2r incident. If ther can't ded with it, than they contact la it depends a une is defining it, het I think the 21 till and lill povides people una como est and take case 21 mL11tary Wtim of chanLeal mattians incledes GB, 22 of the situatiaa.
22 ?! and estand, hanacally. se it's eseally one of those 23 Q.
Do you see any hanrd to the Private fuel 23 three.
14 $tersy facility frem the dispesal of hug habs1 24 Q.
Andyoualsowculdhavetohaveanexplosive 25 A.
AtMichaelt 25 todispersetheGB,v1crsantard,ccrrect?
PAGE 31
_ PAGE 31 31 1
A.
Eomally. Althongh these are munitions ubish 1 antarhi on thsea items.
2 are daecribed as belk catainers, which ther have 2
Q.
So they do tasting cf defensive weapons-t 3 ecstainers stick I assuma ths.f see to charge usepsas 3
A.
Well,yes, with.
4 Q.
~ with respect to using the chemical agent in fI 5
Q.
hw,isn'tittruethatwiththechen!'1 Test 5 testing?
6 !a: Treaty that the U.S. no lager rannfhetures or 6
A.
Eight.
7 Q.
Doyouknowwherechemicalmuniticasor 1 deployschesitalat:itions?
3 A.
Ine're asking se to say whether the kited I chemical agent are stored at hgway?
9 states is doing thatt 9
A.
I'm not sese I kaos. I don't think I can say 10 that I hans shase ther'n staaet I kaas ubese ther de 3
Q.
Yes.
11 A.
And I'm going ta sar yet need nosmhedy smarter 11 some of the testing, het I'm not comfortable in saying I 12 thaa as to give yet that answer.
12 knoe ehese they're stoest 13 2
What's your aderstanding?
13 Q.
AreyoufamiliarwithIglooG?
l i
la A.
ht roe are corrent abset the test aan treaty.
14 A.
ns. I have a iden ubese it is, bet I dea't 15 Q.
What's y mr u derstanding of the test Ban 15 think I'm proposed to testify.
i 16 Treaty is terns cf eeniesl suiticas?
16 Q.
Doyoubelievethatthestorageofchemical 17 A.
That we're not to podass thus and that se 17 aciticas or chemical agent at Dupay poses a hazard to 19 also are in the pocess of destroying them.
18 the Private Fuel Storage facility?
19 Q.
toyoutecwofanystcrageofchemical 19-A.
I weeld haye ast. The malenas of these-yes 20 amiticas that takes place at hpay Proving Grand?
20 kase, these's-- wham yet get lats that kind of staff yon 21 A.
San 11 assets. Becanse one of their mLeaians 21 get inte, ros base, espetse andals of what happens if 22 is chemLeal defense and, thesefore, what they have to de 22 the staff pt laeas at this locatias, has far it voeld 23 is tut clooking and other items to detesmans whether er 23 p, det's the paventag usad, all these kinds of 1
il not ther are effective against these weepens. The emir 74 thians. And I don't have ser var of kasuing that for h
15 var pt ca de that, ps kam, is to ou ses of the 25 sue becaan I des't hast the emet nemt thaf ave ASSOCIA I am PROFR;5510N AL REI'UKI a.M5 - (801) 322-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR, RPR J
IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - JOHN LOUIS MATTHEWS PAGE 33 PACT. 34 33 34 1 there and I don't know that the canyster models venid 1
Q.
Sowhattheyuseisastulantthat's 2 indicate as it relates to that parties 1&r location.
2 nnt:xt:?
3 C.
Eu the State unt.ertaken an evahatin of the 3
A.
That's right.
4 potettial ispets of a pcte:tial release of c:ezical
(
Q.
Thathasttesame:tara:teristicsinterms 5 agent :n, say, citirees at Eglish Village er any cther 5
c!--
6 citirer.softre!!ateofUtat?
6 A.
Yes, for whatever they're testing for.
7 A.
I think I'R not knowledgeable amongh to say.
7 Q.
-- f: whatever they're testir.; for. Dc y:2 3
I'm sure they han, but I don't kaos that for a fact.
I kr.cw cf any safety pt::ef.cres they take i:velving the 9
Q.
Ycu're30tawareofanyyststif?
9 testir.g:f:hemi:a1aject?
10 A.
No.
10 A.
I don't think I could relate their specific 11 Q.
Yeusaidy:u'reawareofthefacilitieswhere 11 safety procedures. I know that they have estensive 12 theytestthechemi:a1ager.t?
12 safety procadares, but I'm not an expert on those 13 A.
Yeah, at least tes locations.
13 procedores.
14 Q.
Reredotheytestchemi:a1agett,then,as 14 Q.
You've been briefed en them by the people at j
15 far u you're aware?
15 hgway,c:Irt:t?
16 A.
Thara's a location at Ditto, the Ditto ares, 16 A.
In general taras, yes.
17 and of course there's another location at the Karr area.
11 Q.
Ingateralterms?
- 5 And athar than those areas, I believe that the testing il A.
!as. I visited their facilities so I have 19 is all sinalated.
19 soon idea of how they operate, bot--
10 Q.
Bysimulatedyeaceanwhat?
20 Q.
Doyoubelievetnatthecperationcfthese 21 A.
Nonlethal. Materials which tend to give the 21 fa:ilities pese any significant hagard to the Private 22 seus characteristics as the agust itself.
22 TaelSteragefa:ility?
23 Q.
So they cse that o;tside to test?
23 A.
I don't believe so, no.
24 A.
Yes. They're not allowed to do outside 24 Q.
ilhat'sycursadersta:dingcftestingwith 25 testing of lethal aqsate.
25 respect to bic1cgical aients at Dugway Preving Ground?
I IME 35 PAGE 36 35 36 1
A.
What'ser1mderstanding?
1 Q.
Are you aware cf the safety procedares that 2
Q.
Yes.
2 theyuseintheLifeSciencesTestfacility?
]
A.
I'm ask sure that fee assa.
3 A.
I'm aware in general taese.
(
Q.
Eat do you hew about testing cf biologi:a1 4
Q.
And what pr=etres are these?
5 1;ents at Apay Proving Grxtd?
5 A.
Well, they have specific areas within the Life 6,
A.
Well, I'm familiar with their facility, I'm 6 science facility for a certain biologica1 1e n 1 of 7 fastliar with the tasts that are going on at the 7 testing, level 2, leni 3. !avel 3 is the manians that i facility because w get a report on those guarterly.
8 ther're allowed to use a.t the haber Lab-it isn't saker 9 nasica11y that's it.
9 Lab saysers, it's the Life Sciences facility. And so 10 Q.
Rere does biclogical testing take place at 10 they have to operate very specifically within those 11 paraenters. m an they prepare a test they go thrpogh a 11 Egway?
12 A.
Out here in the Baker area.
Il preparation in which they revies it with everybody who 13 Q.
Isthatthelife$:lencesTestfacility?
13 is involved and asks sure that they don't have any 1(
A.
Yes, that's right.
14 problems with the test before they do it. And beyond 15 Q.
Areyouawareofanytestingthatteresplace 15 that, I don't haov what the details are.
16 c;tside the I.ife Science fest facility?
16 Q.
Dotheyhaveanegativepressureenthe 17 A.
Oh,yes,there'stestingthatgoesoninthe-t 17 building?
18 on bugvey itself, but once egain, at's with shhts.
18 A.
Oh,you. All those, yes.
19 Q.
Se, again, they use a stim 1nt-19 Q.
And by that neptive presnre r. eats that the 20 A.
A sinalant.
20 airflew is towards the area they're deing the testing?
21 Q.
Rich is nz csic?
21 A.
The area of marissia area of len1 testing, 22 A.
That's right.
22 that's right.
23 C.
Soallthet:xictestingtakesplaceinthe 23 Q.
To include the age:t beicg cctside the 24 11ts Scien:e Test racility?
2( building?
25 A.
Uh-bik (affisestive).
25 A.
Sere.
A550CIAIM PROFESSION AL REPORTERS -(801) 322-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR, RPR
IN THE MA1TER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - JOHN LOUIS MATTHEWS PA"E 37 FAGE 38 37 38 1
Q.
AndyousaidyouwereChairmanofthe 1 about the testing then that's raised at the tium the 2
ednical Review Cc;raittee?
2 proposed testing list is presented to ss.
3 A.
Uh-huk(affirmative).
3 Q.
Anddoyc3helieveinatthetestingc'
(
Q.
Andwhat'stheparpcsecftheTechnicalReview
( bic1cgicalagettattheLife!cienceTestfacilitypeses 5 ccmittes?
5 any ha:ard to the 2nvate hel storage facility?
6 A.
Sometime back vbes this lab was proposed it 6
A.
Ivenidhopenot. I don't see any reason why
? vas proposed to be at level E 4. There was
? it would.
I considerable coseers about having a E-4 lab in the B
Q.
Are ycu aware cf the tunspertation cf 9 state and so the Azur andified their plan finally and 9 chetical or hielogical agent to and frz Ocpay2 10 suggested that they venid build a E-3 lab. There was 10 A.
I'm aware that such a thing occurs, yes, 11 still saa concern that maybe the Asur wedd build-- say 11 Q.
Andwhat'sthebasisofyourknowledge?
12 it voeld build a E-3 and really build a E 4. And so 12 A.
Wall, it's kind of hard to test if yes don't 13 an agreement was reached in which a citisans groep was 13 get the staff these to test, ht's osa of those easy 14 allowed to be privy to what they were doing to easste 14 questions. That's one of the easy cans yon gave as.
15 that it was, in fact, a E-3 lab. So basically that's 15 Q.
Bat they have certain agents frem befcre at i
16 the antithsais of the Technical Review committen.
16 Ngway fra previcus activities, correct?
17 Q.
AndthatwasthecriginoftheTechnical 17 A.
Yes, they do.
Il Review Cemittee?
18 Q.
kt do you review the specific tnasportatics 19 A.
Uh-hah (affianstive),
19 plansthat-20 Q.
A:d scw you continue to review the operatiens 20 A.
Do you kane, we normally do not get involved 21 there to etsure tnat they are E:.-37 21 in the transportation. That's ador the Departumat of 22 A.
Tes. Basically,yesknow,theygiveasa 22 Transportation in the state nad I don't redly get 23 report on their testing. We have people en the 23 directly involved other than occasionally there is the 24 eesmittee who are highly qualified in that area, I am 24 transport of chemical agent from totsy, tooele chenlaal 25 Demilitary Facility, to De psy for the purpose of tants 25 certataly not one of them, and if they have comenene PAGE 39 PAGE 40 39 to 1 and we do get information on that in my role as citineas 1
A.
chenLeal ogsat?
2 Advisory comission for tocar.
2 Q.
Yes.
3 Q.
And do you how what route that transportation 3
A.
I'm not sure that I'm svare of any chemical 4 takes?
4 agent.
5 A.
It varies. I asas, it depends on what they're 5
Q.
GcingdcwnSh11ValleyRoad?
6 transporting and where they take it, het they useally -
6 A.
Iss. There could be biologicd agents, het 7 in these cases - and remember, these are only la a small 7 I'm not sure the makeg.
8 pereestage of the cases, there's a lot of cases and I
Q.
Youhadreferredto,Ithc3;tt,the 9 things I don't kaov about that go to Dap ay, het once 9 transportation free TOCDF to Dcgway. Do you how if any 13 they transport they anke a doetsias on the roots.
10 ci that transpcrtatica has gone dos Sh11 Valley Road 11 Q.
Whatroutesareytaawarethatthey'retehn?
11 cfchemicalagent?
12 A.
Well, I know that they have transported 12 A.
Oh, no, I docht if tha.t vos1d be-.
Il material dava through skall Valler load to Depsy. I 13 Q.
that weald net go don Shil Valley Road?
14 know that they have transported from TocDr seeth to 14 A.
- 30. They vaald have to ge all the voy g to 15 vernos and then over Lookout Pass to Depay. I'm not 15 fooele and back dosa skall valier that way.
16 aware of transportation over Johnson's Pass, but I don't 16 Q.
So fra TDCCF, that would go through I.cebut 17 know for sure.
11 Pass and through Shil -
il Q.
R.at tanspcrtatica are you aware cf down 18 A.
Probably. But as I say, they detotains that 19 shilValleyRoad?
19 onasindividsalbasis.
20 A.
well, that's a primary road for transporting--
2B Q.
Do you how whether the transpettation cf 21 if yee're going to take a track of any sise, that weAd 21 chemical agent er biolcgical agent to and from Dagway 22 he the preferred rotte for Doguer becanoe of the problem 22 wedd pose a hazard te the Private hel Stcra;e 23 of curves, etc., on Johnsaa's Pass.
23 facility?
24 Q.
But what transportation cf chemical a;ent are 24 A.
I do not know that.
25 ycu spedfically aware cf down Sh11 Valley Read?
25 Q.
Ycu centioned at ene peint earlier this ASSOCIATED PROFESSIONAL REPORTERS -(501) 322-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR,RPR
..n n
IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE JOHN LOUIS MATTHEWS PAsz 45
_ PAag is
($
4g 1.
A lot of them.
1 Rasp, and they have a scochg facuity W w w 2
Q.
What tre the r.atae :f these training 2 yes com is and attack a granad target and they eaa 3 sissi=s?
3 score your accoracy and thea retssa ta base.
4 A.
Well,suswerefighteraissias,seeswere 4
Q.
What typt cf places have you f1:wn a these 5 raftaling missima, some were belicoptar missions to 5 trai:ing:issiens?
I Probahlyallthree.
6 A.
I started ont in old airplanas, r-ass, and 1
Q.
What wre d e fi;nter missi:ts that ya flew?
7 ended g firing a r-16 training assaien most recatir.
1 Can ycu describe d es te et gt.arally?
I Q.
How my T-li training missims did you fly?
9 A.
Okay. Well, ht's see. 144 as give you as 9
A.
setveryunsy,3sstacoupleofthese.
13 eaagle of a fighter ainsiaa. foegoost,yestakeoff, 10 Q.
And-i 11 yee clie ost, yet go hit the taaker abich is located sa 11 A.
I have to tall yes, off the record, that what 12 the range, fill q with feel, attack the tarpt cglas 12 ammaed un was har similar the f45 handlas te na old 13 at 511dost. fos may p back up and reisel agnia with.
13 F 16. It's pt a let ante poser and it can do a lot li the tankar, depending as how lent a mission yes vast to 14 nere vertically to get est of troshla, but as far as 15 fly, roe asr p into sensever areas whose roe de 15 handling characteristics, very similar. I uns aussed.
li air-to-air activity, in obish yes use air-to-air tactics 16 Ret she cases. Da se go.
1? vith other aircraft, smetimas there are aircraft there 17 Q.
Didyouflymissiustothesathpartofthe 19 that are desiped to be aggressors and yes're d=4=d il OtahTest&trainingRatge?
19 to attack them. Tos're vectored there by the air 19 1.
Yes, sanally. The missises I fin soma dem 10 traffic control pegle, vectored to the enest, and then 20 and stored naar the Delta area, ene is sooth of the 21 yes y through year maasevers for air-to-air activitias.
21 area range.
22 fos my fire air-te-pound at Basis aange 22 Q.
So you tect off fra Hill Air feret Base?
23 shich is up here in the north area-as yes leek at the 23 A.
Tes. Heat sooth over Salt Lake and thes deum 24 northareahere,thejog,ifyesleekdirectlynorthof 24 and then stated the range appseminately in this area, 25 arasst assistains, in this area right here is Eagle 25 which I gases I'm pointing to an area amar what voeld be PAGE 47
_ PAGE 48 41 48 1 described as Sevier hka and it's aet identified en this 1
1.
Yes,prabably, 2 amp. And Delta is ant identified en this asp, hat it's 2
Q.
And then you would came up and fly up to 3 right here. Bu e's rilla re. So if yes eene seeth frem 3 Wildca llantain?
( tockwell, a little hit oosthment te share yee see all et 4
A.
Tenn. It dgends so what yes're daing.
5 these reads kind of intarsestingt 5
Q.
You fly then into the Test and Training Range?
6 Q.
Yes.
6 A.
Iss. Ise enter the ramps and then ros have 1
1.
That's Delta. Thea se can is naar what is-7 all kinds of unmessesability. fas can get dem on the 1 those little lahas ont there is a comples ubiak need to 8 doet er uhatever yee seed te de, depending on what the 9 he called serier.
9 missies profile is.
10 Q.
Andth:selakesarebetwenCricketllaantains 10 Q.
Whatwerethelasttrainingmissionsthatyes 11 andGranitePeak,szedertinbetween?
11 flew,whenweretheyflown?
12 A.
Yes.
12 1.
In the '90s, prehably '92. They won't let me il Q,
3:se flights wald take off fra Bill air 13 fly asrears. I'm too old.
11 Ecret Base and cze over Salt lake city?
14 Q.
Do would love to fly sze mere, right?
15 A.
Yes, in these partienhr ases. Although ther 15 A.
Yes, I sos 14 love to. Talk is cheap.
16 ccan both unre. They p disestar est seat from Bill 16 Q.
Do yn know what route they as today to fly 11 into the rasse and sooth into the range.
17 to the Utah Test E training Range? Do they use the same il Q.
1:d when they case dos south they would cae 18 rocts or de they use a different recte?
13 down over this ph:e between R:ckwell and Fillacre?
19 A.
I des't believe I can tell yea with absolate 20 A.
Delta.
20 accuraer what ther use. I'm sure that ther ese that, 21 Q.
Celta?
21 among other routes. I kasy that they y east into the 22 A.
Yes.
22 range. I halieve, but I de act haar, that they aho 23 Q.
Ar.d then you would swing arocati?
23 came seeth thesegh Skall Taller as asether route, but 24 A.
And into the range here.
24 I'm aet an espart en that partialar aspeet and I thtak 25 Q.
Arxad hteh Peat and Ecllow Peat?
yet sees to be sus that ye haes that.
25 ASSOCIA 1 ED PRO ti E551tE1 REPUKI ER5 - (801) 333-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR,RPR b---
IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - JOHN LOUIS MATTHEWS PME 49 PAGE 50 0
50 1
Q.
Where is Hill Air force 3ase? It's located up 1 are alsare dasa fair 1T law. Sothatwasossanju 2 hert by C; den?
2 concars with that corrider.
3 A.
11ght there, yes. tes can sit out here and 3
Q.
Dat kind of northad traffic dc ycu 4 vatch than going directly across the lake into the
( encutter?
i nage.
5 A.
Primarilyfighters.
6 Q.
k.to the ncrth area, ::rth range?
6 Q.
% you bcw where they viere headed?
1 A.
And mise yee can hear than canas across Salt 1
A.
30.
I Iake southhoemd. Ses of them ye'll see y across the Q.
Co you bow whetser they still Ey that rotte 9 lake and thee tars seeth.
9 t: day?
10 Q.
And scuth-10 A.
Wall, I haov that helicopters still satch for 11 A.
In this ares. So they seald come threagh the 11 than and serk with clour control to try to asistain 12 skall Talley area.
12 sepasatica. Clover Control is the 299th sgnadron.
13 Q.
CoyesknowwheretheyflyinShilValley1 13 Q.
You said you c:enanded a greep ren::sible for 14 A.
I de est. And I don't haev ihat altitude ther 14 aiItrafficecatrc1?
15 fly. I know one thing, I knee that in haucoptering 15 A.
That's the 199.
16 hack and forth to Daguay sedag ecreas skall faller se 16 Q.
licaid you describe for me what yea did as head 17 often weald===* fighters at los level preeneding 11 cfthatgrcup?
Il northhoemd.
18 A.
Well, that any -M ines, yos haos. It's 19 Q.
Whereit,approminately?
19 keg an est of treable type thing. Actually, I vialted 20 A.
ne soold eene across asas perhope just a 20 their operatione a a saber of ocendana. Whenever 21 little south of Johnson's Pass and then proceed 21 there ses an aseident et the range they called an. I 22 directly-- yet cas see the roads. And this seald be 22 spent time sosking en Assens of ensposer related to the 23 Inglish Village right abset base. And se useld 23 amber of operations they sese dealing with. I alas was 24 esasanter earthbound-- anstly seethbound traffic at los 2( inesived is their Lasses related to the egeigesat that 25 level. There was soothhemd traffie, het heliospters 25 they need to spesste on the range and the facilities PAGE 52
_ PAGE 51 51 52 1 that they had available to thenhacesse they had to have 1 geesties ansat the reage, they'as pennebly av soarse far 2 gap tiller radare at variens lacetiens se they asald 2
W==H= homesse I knee the and I hear she to talk 3 have better coverage of the raags. They aseded sites 3 te g these and I keer that they de so I can find set 4 where they could provide adsgeste cessanientions. Ion 4 shat I ased to.
5 kaos, there wese blank asons in the range that ther 5
Q.
IwenidliketohavemarkedasExhibit2a 6 seeded better comanisations for se se seshed as things 6 d:ca ant m ich is a MI response to B.2 regarding 7 like that, their passeenal regnirsasets sure based sa 7 hangingbombs?
8 the sorty rate at the range sad se to had to revner 6
(Exhibit 2 aarted for identification.)
9 Q.
(BY tel. GM11 showing you a docuent which 9 their pareceaal requiremets.
10 Q.
So yeu previded sgport for the air tuffic 10 is a historic response to a question that the E had 11 cc: trol?
11 co:cerning hanging babs and flights with respect to tas 12 ;fft,haveyouseenthisbefo:e?
12 E.
Iss.
13
(.
ht yee weren't actually cananding--
13 A.
I = trying to think whethat I did or not. I 1(
L ! so n't the es m ander of the m it, bat the 14 any neve. I think I have seen this.
15 comanDe of the init reported to es.
15 Q.
Seen this, ht are you referring to when ycu 16 Q.
You provided support for the air traffic 16 say"this'1 17 A.
Standeed incident departese rettes and this 17 :catrel?
is A.
,h-hah (affiantini. so I ns faict 18 no. res, I think I neve esen this a,.
nau, t'a net 19 f mL11ar vi'& what they vase doing. I spent gaits a bit 19 absoletelycertais.
20 Q.
Ileviewing respcase (a), okay, it says that the 20 of time up t.are.
21 Q.
h a was this, what period of tiaal 21 nabar of sorties flous, based upon statistics received 12 A.
Wa1., it ended is 'H, October of '94.
22 fra the hir Force, the ember of sczties ficun with 23 Q.
Ha n you catigued to have any contacts or be 23 respect to the U:TR for fiscal year 1998, October 1, 24 familiarwiththatsincethen?
24 1991throughSeptember30,1998, total 8,7111 25 A.
I contact than on costata issons. If I have a 25 A.
Iss.
A550 CIA 1 ED PROF E5510N AL ret'OR A E.345 - (501) JZZ-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR, RPR
IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - JOHN LOUIS MATTHEWS PAGr 53 PAGE S4 53 9
1 G.
Sees that sx.d like a : rre:t nacer to you?
1 don't have mesy in their budget to transfer.
2 A.
What, the 1,C001 2
It's sg nederstanding that is the very recent 3
Q.
Yes.
3 Past that sitestion has chaaged sessuhat insofar as 4
A.
I have no reason to dispute it. I don't kaar.
t control of the range is concerned. And I don't kaos 5 It sonade los, bot historically law. That demas't seam 5 what effect that vill have on the sorty rate, hat I 6 itisn'tcorrect.
6 think there are other things that affect the sorty rate.
7 Q.
You say hi:t:ncally Icv it that you re:all 7 Das is the activities that we're intelved in worldride 3 higherndersinthepast?
8 which take inits assy fra training and put the in 9-1.
Yes.
9 operatised activities, and the second thing is the li Q.
Co yea have any dea what the nutter of 13 dava-sizing, or to see the politically correct te m, the 11 s:rties are placed for the fmre?
11 right-sising of the military.
12 A.
I have ao ides and I think that's a functica 12 Q.
So it redaces the cater of planes flying?
13 of budgeta and-- well, basiedly it's budgets, period.
13 A.
Yes. So I think that yes any have a better 14 That's shat defiase that, kt as just clarity by saying 14 feel for sorty rate if yes ase severd years rather than 15 that the reage itself has-yee kase, the Departant of 15 sen year.
16 Defense has, as a rossit of the McBesara skin kids of 16 Q.
Do you know the serty rate fer previous years?
17 the past, has gottes itseH 1 ate a situation whers every 11 A.
My reenllectian, and yes haar, it's my 18 tium you samt to use sannbedy else's locaties or 18 rece u esties, okay? Is that tbs serty rata has hees up 19 squap m at yet have to pay for it, yes have to transfer 19 is the mal W of 14,000 per year.
20 anesy frea year budget to their budget. this has 20 Q.
Rat years were these, do you recall?
21 affectedforasemberofyearssortisesatherange 21 A.
neu, I voeld say that soald have been at 22 because if the range is asned by one entity and another 22 laastteetothreeyearsage.
23 entity wants to use it, they have to transfer sener to 23 Q.
And the basis for thosc c abars w re What?
2( nse it er they can't use it. se it can sit there and 24 1.
Thebasisfortheashess?
25 they ana't get on it and they need to trais, bet ther 25 Q.
The14,000.
_ PAGE 55
_ PAGE 56 55 56 1
A.
Rat do yes anas, the basis?
1 !& the case of fighters, seustismo yes ask yearself 2
Q.
Watwasthesocrescfthesenabers?
2 with a mentaia range se sestking else and peu up over 3
A.
Well, that vanld be the 299th nait that has to 3 therangaandattackthetasyst.
( dad with them. see, we asaned that on the basis of the
{
Q.
So to test fire you try to mask by staying 5 sorty rate, so se sore always fighting for asasang.
5 nearthesountainrange?
6 2
Ocyou'r.nowwhatper:entagecfthesorties 6
A.
Tes. se it's low altitude tastics to avdd 7 carrylivecrdnance?
7 detectise and tapest fees air-to-air. Se thess's I
A.
Toa have here is this documsat il perosat. I l obrisaaly seus of that does. that dessa't asas they're i have as say to know whether that's tres or ast true. I
$ going te drop ordasmes, that assas they're just M have as reasce to doubt it, I $sst don't haar. I de 10 practiclagtactics.
11 kao,that a lot of missions these de not carry ordenase.
11 Q.
heredotheycropordinanceorfire?
12 so, yos kane, that's an I hase.
12 1.
The only plass they can deep andmance is as 13 Q.
Let'sfocusonthesouthUtahfest& Training 13 the laaaHame that yet have set 31and here is the grosed 14 Range f:: a seco d. htat type c! training activities 14 controlled parties of the Rak fast & traiaing Image, 15 take place co the scuth Otah Test 6 fraining Bange?
15 and they are limited in that area to spesific targeting 16 A.
Casise missile testing, aiz-to-air combat 16 sites.
17 training, los level tacties. Ist as clarify that. What 11 Q.
Andtheaspshowsthetargetingsites?
18 I'm talking about is if yes're going to attack a target, 18 A.
fee. I this,k that's shat the utale reemd 19 ene of the things yee have to de is deside shat is the 19 seres with the rs la the ass. So they saa't desy--
20 best var to attack the target and protact yearself 20 ist as reyksase that. They're est suppened ta deg 21 agaiset air-to-air retaliaties. sometians the hast seg 21 ootside those asens. And abrienaly it's not a happy day 22 to attack the target is through sesking, which la to 22 if they asms hoek to the haea having dame so.
23 star las and hidden. Se in the halicapter besiasse they 23 Q.
Areyouawareofordnancebeingdropped
!( ?.au it map of the earth, ubese they star ser does in 24 cotsidethedesignatedimpactarea?
25 t'as treme ud yap g W, fire and drop beak dass again.
25 1.
I as set. I as ast. If these has been, I'm ASSOCIATED PROFESSIONAL REPOR1F H3 -(501) 322-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR,RPR
)
IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - JOHN LOUIS MATTHEWS Pact 97 PAGE 58 5?
56 1 act sure ! vos1d knee.about it. so I soald have kaoss 1
A.
There's suoral sises. I thiah b y vary au 2 about it probably is the past if it had ocentzed bocasse 2 the say fras 2,000 pounds do m to 500 penaders.
3 tha 299th voeld have reported it to me, but that would 3
- c. se 2,t:0 pounds weald be the lar;est that 4 have been prior to cetober of 'H.
4 you'reawareef?
5 Q.
k you didn't how c! any pri:r to Octcber :f 5
A.
Tes. I think that m et of m acttvity is
(
6 '94?
6 with the maller bomb.
1 A.
I don't recall any.
1 Q.
The s: aller?
8 Q.
Rattypeofcrecucedetheyfireinthe 8
A.
Yes.
9 scath r11t, to yc2 bow?
9 Q.
M you knew what the extent of a blast pattern 10 A.
on tildcatt they drop b e s, they use 10 would be ft:a, say, a 2,000 bese?
11 air-to-greemd seapos systems, dich inclada-- it 11 A.
I do not. No, I'm not an supert. I can ten 12 includes-I'm trytag to thiat of the right word for the 12 you shat it looks like, bet that's probably irrelevant.
13 seapon systems, some of than are shat se can dedi 13 Q.
% you know if there's man;als ttat tell you 14 bons and aan are called mart bombe.
14 dat the blast pattern is for different besca?
15 Q.
k they use Maveriet air-to-ground missiles?
15 A.
Oh, absolately. ton can find that 16 A.
Ies, they do. And they any or any not have 16 information,I'ssure.
11 live heads on them. I soold think 11 anst casse they de 17 Q.
What procedures are in pla:e with respect to 18 not.
Il ensning the safety of these training exercises that 19 Q.
N you h :w what the range is of the Maveri:k 19 occu?
20 airto-g:candsystes?
20 A.
Wen, they have a lot of lot's. They have a 21 A.
No. I don't think I-I maan, it in't a 21 specific planning process that they go threegh is which 22 long range bocasse yes're-- yes knee, but I can't give 22 they plan the sorty la adranos, they p through the 23 yes the reage.
23 Potential creas for possible rist, they try to idsstify l
24 Q.
N y:n how
- sebeobstheydrapwhen 24 hoe they're going to mallarate that risk and then ther 25 they do use live ordna 25 atteet to implanst what they have agreed to in the PAGE 59 PAGE 60 59 E0 1 Preflight planning.
1 aircraft shink have live ordnanos on board and I think 2
Q.
M y:n b:w of any etter area in the scuth 2 shasaver res're under the path, the flight path of seek 3 Utah ?est I traising Range other than Wildcat Mcantain 3 as aircraft there is risk.
4 wheretheyuselightcrtance?
4 Q.
Putting aside the overflights, clay, is there 5
A.
rhare's another comples callad titty cat and I 5 anyriskfromtheactualactivitiesoncetheplace 6 can't tall yee whether they esa noe live ordasaos at 6 reachesthe--
7 Eitty cat or not.
1 A.
Once it gets sa Wildcat?
B Q.
WhereisthatinrelationtoWildcat?
8 Q.
Yes.
9 A.
It's not far fram tildcat, but I'm not sers !
9 1.
I would be very surprised if there was a risk.
10 can pick it ont on this asp. Det I'm sure yee can get 10 Q.
Wusectiotedthatthere'stestingmissions?
11 that information.
11 A.
Uh-hak (affinative).
12 Q.
k yc3 bcw what direction they fire live 12 Q.
Whattestingmissionsareyouawarecfwith 13 crian:e at Wildcat Mountain?
13 respecttotheUtahTest4TrainingRange?
14 A.
Idon'tineslimitationsasdirection,butI 14 A.
Well, yee kass abset the cruise adssile 15 would say that the m$ority of their sortise are north 15 testing, that's a sageing process. The Utah feet s 16 to south or south to merth. I can't tan you for sure 16 Training Ramps is seu suited for ersise manale testing 17 that that is as escissive limitatica.
17 so it became a papalar candidats, the range ocuplanes il Q.
oc you see the tnining exer:ises en the south 18 in the asethuset provide an appertanity for missilan to 19 Ctah fest i Training Range pesing any significant hatard 19 he launded even as far asey as the facific Doman and to 20 to the Privete h el Stersge facility?
20 cens through the reage cuelames up into sad tesmante 21 A.
Nell, I think there is some risk. I can't 21 is the Utah festing & traising Bange. Air ined ersise 22 seantify the risk. It usy be very sann, it nur ha 22 sissilas are sometimes launebed in the raags and thes 23 ansedstent, it any be-- I can't think that it's large, 23 hacasse af the width of the range it allass than to 24 but I don't think I'm an espart enoagh to geantify it.
24 perfess a seer af anneuvers and test est the accarecy 25 I think there is the possibility of overflights with 25 of their operations. Se they test aar weapon systans in A5SOCiATED PROFE5510NAL REPORTERS - (Bel) 322-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR,RPR
=
)
IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAOE - JOHN LOUIS MA PAGE 62 _
(2
,,,,,,, P AGE 61 il ros 1 that goes os a the range ad I haw limited wwiga the reage, ther aise test esisting seapes ernene.
of othat testing. I m gaits familiar with the cruise 2
1 hase, the Air rares has an angeist progen of testing missus tasting becasse that's been a fregnant esping j
3 the inventory as as nagis to be sure that its s perferneses le stui pedictable. se that essers en the 4 prepaathere.
2 5
Q.
What hewledge do you tue of the cruise reage, h aitions testing access in the range and it's minile testing progras at the Utah test i Iraiting 5
6 6 resur based es the nation's resurch and devolepasst 7 P.ange?
progr a and their acquisitica program as to what is I
L hathaseledesdeIhave?
1 I tasted these.
9 Q.
Yes.
9 Q.
h you see any of these test activities posing 10 A.
I'm not sene essetir her to answer.
10 ny pctential significant hazar:i to the Privata nel 11 Q.
I.et se treak it down sme. How cften do they 12 de cruise missile tests, do you how?
11 Storagearea?
12 k.
mil, these is asen risk benense ther des't 13 aluurs de what they're sg peeed to de. scantionsther 13 A.
hu, it varies asseshat, but ther are - eg 14 sessiones tous as that ther han been namediat snee it p whose therine not std and and iy is the erset fropeat is the past thes they en ser, het ther stiu-15 P oe.
16 ther stiu de a s5m" naber of tests. If ps h
15 15 Q.
Areyoureferringtoanyparticulartypeof lask back, sad ser ever a ten pas period ps'n had 11 li appresientalt 13 assidents with cruise missiles, that 11 equipment?
16 '.
L h11, there's certaisit been a seeker of gives yes sans idea of the assent of activity that's 13 20 going a ainee pa weeld espost the accadest rate to be 19 cruise missile accidents en the range.
Q.
Putting enise missiles to cne tide, do you 20 11 fairlylaw.
bow of u y other testing that eculd pose a potential 22 Q.
M you know how sany tests took place over 21 12 haurd to the Private hel Sterage facility that occurs 23 thatten-yearperiod?
23 en the Utah *est 6 training Range?
24 A.
I de ast. I'sii speenlating no I don't nase.
Be. ht my haselsige is penbebly istelevant 25 Q.
htyoudeknowtheaccidents,though?
24.
L
,25 becasas I des't have kneeledge of chssified testier PAGE 64 64 PAGE 63 63 (Exhibit 3 marked for identification.)
1 1
L hil, I know dat infessaties has been (BY 18. GhCIIZ10 Are you failiar with the 2
Q.
3 decaent that I've haded yon that's been earked u 2 ptheted a that.
W.ste did these accidents take place, do you 3
Q.
4 Exhibit 32 4 hew?
seu. they're in a variety of locations se the 5
A.
res,I a.
6 Q.
Andwhatinthatdocenst?
5 L
7 A.
h u, it's a s m eer et the assident 6 range.
7 Q.
M yen knoe of say accidents that took place investigaties for the hited states Air poses AAH29 8
t cff the Utah test 6 training Range er hpsy Proving adresses assias mLaath and gine a menial ember and 9
9 Ground?
10 date of 18 December 1997, And this is the accident you just referenced 10 A.
I'm not asase of aer.
11 Q.
11 Q.
M you know cf what safety procedures that the 12 with respect to the Japanese?
12 Air !ctce us u in testing cruise missiles?
13 L res.
A.
ch, nu, ther have a ht of safstr 14 0
Is this a complete copy of the report?
13 11 pacedores,' bet I don't knee if I's engelseat of au 15 L
h.
their naastr penedeses, not ther base a saber, 16 Q.
Do you have a couplete copy of the report?
15 incindtag processess for dealing with arrant miseihs.
In the 17 A.
I de set.
16 set seestians ther seek, sentians ther des't.
il Q,
is this the exact same copy that you have?
11 case that pe're probably familiar with that isqnested a 19 A.
res, itis.
Il19 ' the Japanese tasiles est thste, their safest posedeses 20 Q.
And if you wonid just take a look at pages 2 21 and 3 of the report.
10 didn't week.
I would like to have marted as Exhibit 3 an 22 A.
2 and 37 Q.
21 Accident Investigatica Board Report d.ich I halieve is Yes. On page 3 it looks u if something may 22 23 Q.
havegottenleftout. Is that the see pop 3 you have?
il part of th-24 24 L Is that the see en that test?
hu, it's kind of nord - it's a uttle band 25 L
25 Q.
Yes.
A550CI ATED FILOFFEMON AL REruni a,tts - (Bel) 333-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR,RPR
IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE.f0HN LOUIS MATTHEWS PAGE 65 PAGE 66 65 66 1 to read, hat it appears to be the saem page, yes.
1 resen:hfacilities?
2 Q.
Wheredidthisa::1ett,cruisesissile 2
L Enll, it's the Daiversity of Tokyo that is 3 at:. ent Oc=r? Can y:n p: int to cae cf 2e maps dat 3 collaboratingwiththeUniversityofUtakindoing 4 we ha'te given you cf the Utah fest i training Ru;e up
( coenLerayresearch.
5 cr the %gvay Proving Groced up?
5 Q.
kd co you tsow wtecer or not the r.issile was 6
A.
I'm not sure this asp is goint to do it for 6 cff course d en it hit these facilities?
?
A.
one vos1d hope so.
7 cs.
3 Q.
Xxid the te;way rap do it for yx?
8 Q.
Fra the repcrt ne you awara-9 A.
That might be better. I think the descriptist 9
A.
Otharvise the Japaanse vill be even more 10 here is probably as good as marthing I cm give yes of 10 anamred with na than they already are.
11 where it ocentred. Obviously it's as the Cedar 11 Q.
Well, isn't it tne that the repcrt says that 12 m entains, but I cm*t tall you enactly share.
12 the ft:ilities wue in the test nea cettnewnst te the 13 Q.
hd what's year understan:ing cf dat happeted 13 people d o were dcing the test?
It inthisenisemissileaccident?
14 L 1es. I guess it's a questian of, you kass, 15 A.
Well, they lost ceumication with the missila 15 she is the partise that don't kast. Dogway obviossly 16 at the end of the-- after they had released their 16 kast, Det the Air Faroe any not have knous. And I don't 11 sinalated seapos.
11 have any infomatian sa that. amt ros're r2ght, it was il Q.
Ed tat did the missile do?
11 suprising to the Air Feros that they could igact a 19 A.
It just nosed over, a steep dive and crashed.
19 research vos la the Utah fut 6 traiaiAg lange.
20 Q.
Is that what they're pregnaned to do, enise 20 Q.
So the research van was actully in their 21 missiles, anaing they don't receive a c:ntrary 21 desiguted tut usa, right?
22 ces:nicatien?
22 L rhat's correst.
23 A.
I can't-yee know, I dos't taas the aasser to 23 Q.
Sothemissiledidn'tgooutsidethe 24 that genstion.
24 dulgutedtestarea, correct?
25 Q.
!iew ycu said it hit scae Jap e sse laberatory 25 L
m, that's cerranti FAcit 68 Pact 67 61 68 1
Q.
Tc:UsingonthenorthUtah?tst& Training 1
Q.
CftheCedarllountains?
2 Ruge, do y:u fonsee any activities in the n:rth Utah 2
L fos, east of the Cedar mustains. Escase an.
3 f ast t "niting hnge haviDg any ispact on the Private 3 Barth to the Cedar m estains, yes're correct.
4 Q.
So that's the only potsatial igact you see ca 4 FuelSteragefacility?
5 L
I'm not asene of asy.
5 the ITF Woold be the tnuportation of these smitionst 6
Q.
M yon f: resee u y activities in the n:rth 6
L Tes. tes know, I dam't kase what other impaat 1.'CtahTest&TrainingRangethatnighttaveimpacton 1 thaes sonid be, bat that demon't-I sesa, that's just 8 the htermodal Tansfer Point which wonid be along I all ! taer.
9 htentate 80 about two miles west of Rawley Jcaction?
9 Q.
to y a have n y idea cf the li h litcod cf 10 L The onir igent that I nos14 foreses useld be 10 adverse impact fra the tunsportation of those 11 the transportatina of amaitians shish occus sa I 10 11 maltions?
12 fra till Air Fotos nose and from Isit kha Airport 12 L I des't have any infomaties.
13 No. 2 to the area that is near the Begla tange and is 13 Q.
Areyouawareofanyincidenceinvolvingthe 11 near th: Lakeside sammary sange skick is on the east and 14 transportationofthoseannitices?
15 of - enense es, the east end af the grond ommed 15 L
Be, I'm not asus of that. Therepeakehty 16 venidn't be m1ase thee, see t unjer probles.
16 property of the Utah test 6 traiaing lange.
11 The Air raros has a facilitt eested as the 11 Q.
A:s you familiar with airpine enshes that l
il grosed at that locaties and shes the helianytare fire sa il have occurred with respect to tnining and testing 19 the Lakeside Gennary Esege they go over to that locatian 19 aissionsintheOtahfest6TrainingRange?
20 te load thnic smaitians and back and the munitises ase 20 L 2 have the desmusst that lists the miraraft 21 transported from this locatism out I te and g the reed 21 assidents la the shat, past tan years.
22 Q.
Inthepasttenyears?
22 to the tagle aange.
23 Q.
hd the road you're pointing out to that 23 A.
!as.
24 Q.
Do you know where those accidects tsve 24 facility fut goes off of I-80 acrth?
25 L straight earth, sh hek.
25 occurred?
A550CIAILD PROFESSIONAL REFOKIERS -(Bel) 322-3441 LANE'ITE SHINDURLING, CSR, RPR
IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - JOHN LOUIS MATTHEWS PAGE 13 PAGE 74 73 l
14 1
Q.
And what potutial haurds, if ny, do you see 1 that?
2 ft:2,say,thecivilian:sersthatgoentotherege?
2 A.
h 299th keeps records of that, yes. by 3
A.
As far as the air carriers go, I see no 3 have to try and pt ahold of the pys and pt them out 4 potential hasards because there's a los probability of 4 of hama's ver and stop the fighter-- try to stop the 5 sid air collision. Other than hasard anywhere of as 5 fighters fr a running into them. Invariably they can 6 airliner dropping ont of the sky, ubich yee kaos what 6 acrossatanaltitudethatisverydangerons,lov 1 the potential of that is. There is a sommehat higher 7 altitude, so they're aboot to encounter a high-speed, B potaatial hasard from civilias pilots she are vandering 8 los altitude surprise.
9 across the range without clearas:e hacesse of the 9
Q.
Coyousestatecffsandludingsat!altLake 10 possibility of aid air en111sions. And that, whether or 10 City Airport itself posing ny hazard to the Private 11 act that creates an increased hasard for the pFE 11 FuelStoragefacility?
{
12 facility, I have no var of knowing. I don't necessarily 12 A.
I don't.
j 13 sagpst that it does or it doesn't, I don't know.
13 E. 2CET.R: Let'stakeabreakferafew i
1(
Q.
Doyouknowhowcften$3cbanerarsion 14 Einctes.
15 cecen?
15 (shortrecess.)
16 A.
by ocene are tropostly thas ! vos1d have 16 Q.
(BY E. GAGE IR) Let's go back en the recera.
17 suspected,butIcan'ttellyouwhattheencreetrateof 11 General Matthews, just a co ple more questions. h u had it incursions is. Sviously that Lafosaation is availak'a, il referred to the excursion into the 7lTR private civilian 19 I was surprised at the nauber of pecyle vbo vander 19 plues. Has there ever been an accident caused by the 20 across. saing a pilot gself, I can't believe people de 20 er=sica cf private civilian plues into the DTIR that 21 that, but they do. And seen of the are, obvionaly, not 21 you're aware ef?
22 in total possession of all their faculties when they do.
22 A.
ht's a good pestion. In ur mind I vapely 23 so that information is available. I'm sure yes coeld 23 rem eber something, bat I can't verify it so I will have 21 get that if yes vaated it.
24 to say I dos't know. let it is sonsthing that sticks in 25 Q.
2111AirterceBasewouldkeeprecordsof 25 g aiad, and it doesa't stick in er mind as a mid air.
PAGE 75 PAGE "16 15 16 1 It sticks in at mind as a crash, but not a add air.
1 A.
Oh, I think there's no geestias abost that. !
2 Bat, you kasv, don't hold se to that.
2 don't think yee unst one contag through yost roof, but I
]
3 Q.
Thesecondthing,withrespecttothecruise 3 don't kaos how meh they weigh. I've been hit by a 4 missile tests, are the cruise tissiles a::ned or net 4 goose skile I was flying and I can tall you that a pose 5 a:ted when they do these cruise missile tests, do yea 5 osa anha a big hole in goer airplass. So years ap ther 6 kr.cw?
6 said that the viad screes se car aircraft was 400 foot A.
Well, azaad or not amed. I pass what we 7 pounds capability,' which meant that you cos14 hit a one 1
I con 1d say for sure is they're not azand with fall poser 8 poemd object at 400 miles as hour and it voald resist it 9 seapons,yes. i' bey any have practice weapons, but I'm 9 oryoucouldhita400posedobjectatimilanaher.
10 sure they're not arsad with really ones. I feel 10 so I think the tapact would be igressive even if it 11 confidant that is the case.
11 vere inert.
12 Q.
So that would be s:sething like tha dancy 12 Q.
Batyoudon'tknowwhatsiseerweightthey 13 b:rbs you talked aboct wtere they have scae small 13 ne?
It m:niticas to show where they land?
14 A.
No, I don't.
15 A.
maally all they have to know is ubether ther 15 E. GA32R: Ihavenofurtherquestions.
16 pt it vbers they vaated to pt it, by've pt so such 16 E.lESON: Idon'thaveanyquestions.
17 radar going on ubes they de the tests, they've pt 11 MR.GACIER: Thank you very at::h, General 18 airplanes folloeing the and rader tracking than and I 18 Matthews, il von 14 be surprised if they need even a practice varhand.
19 Whereupon,thetakingcfthedepositionwas 20 0
A:d with respect to the c:my boats er 20 concludedat11:40a.a.)
21 ortancecarriedbythesepluesinthetraining 21
--co0cc--
22 missionsontheUtahTestifrainingRange,whatweight 22 23 are these d: sty bc:bs, do you know?
23 24 1.
I dea't think I can answer that with accuracy.
24 25 Q.
Aretheylessweightthantheregulstboobs?
25 ASSOCIA I EU PROFESSIONAL REPORTERS -(801) 322-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR, RPR
R CERTIFIED COPY sd 1
IQ 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
---ooooooo---
4 In the Matter of
- Docket No. 72-22 5
PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE
- ASLBP No. 97-732-02-ISFSI L.L.C.
6
- Deposition Of:
(Private Fuel Storage
- DAVID C.
LARSEN m[
7 Facility)
---oooOooo---
9 Deposition of DAVID C.
LARSEN, taken at 10 the law offices of Parsons, Behle & Latimer, 201 South Main, Suite 1800, Salt Lake City, Utah, on the 11 12th day of May 1999, at the hour of 9:00 a.m.,
before David A.
Thacker, a Certified Shorthand 12 Reporter, Registered Professional Reporter, Utah License No. 22-105417-7801 and Notary Public in and 13 for the State of Utah.
14
---ooooooo---
E 15 16 17 E
18 19 20 E
21 22 23 i
g 25 AssOCI ATED PROF ESSION A L R E P O R T E R S, L. C.
g
............ - ~,.,
P 1
DAVID C.
- LARSEN, 3
being first duly sworn, was examined and testified 4
as follows:
5 EXAMINATION 6
BY MR. GAUKLER:
7 Q.
Would you please state your full name for 8
the record.
9 A.
David Curtis Larsen, f]
10 Q.
David, my name is Paul Gaukler, and I'm 11 going to be asking a series of questions this i
12 morning.
If at any time you don't understand a
[
13 question that I ask yoe, would you please ask me to N
14 clarify the question?
15 A.
Okay.
16 Q.
What is your current position and employer?
17 A.
I'm an environmental scientist with the 18 Utah Department of Environment Quality, Division of 19 Solid and Hazardous Waste, Chem Demil Section.
20 Q.
Very specific.
How long have you been an 21 environmental scientist with the Department?
22 A.
About ten, ten and a half years.
23 Q.
So you joined them about 1989?
l'~
24 A.
August
'88.
C 25 Q.
August
'88.
Okay.
L-a e-m Iw
5 1
until you joined from '87 to '88?
l 2
A.
Well, actually, I was in school while I 3
taught school.
My wife was finishing school at BYU.
l 4
Q.
Very good.
Since you have joined the State 5
in August 1988, what have been your positions?
6 A.
Same position.
7 Q.
Environmental scientist?
8 A.
Uh huh (affirmative).
9 Q.
At Solid and Hazardous Waste?
10 A.
Right.
11 Q.
And what duties have you had at Solid and 12 Hazardous Waste throughout that period of time, from 13 August 1988 to the present?
14 A.
Connie could answer that question.
She 1
15 used to be my boss.
16 Q.
I didn't know.
17 MS. NAKAHARA:
Don't volunteer any 18 information.
19 MR. GAUKLER:
We'll ask you, Connie.
l 20 THE WITNESS:
Permit--RCRA permit writer, 1
21 and evaluate closure plans, do hazardous waste 22 inspections.
That pretty much generally covers it.
23 Q.
(BY MR. GAUKLER)
What type of inspections 24 did you say?
25 A.
Hazardous waste inspections.
i g
1 L.
1 6
1 Q.
Hazardous waste.
2 A.
Yeah.
3 Q.
Those are hazardous waste under RCRA?
4 A.
Right.
5 Q.
And for what facilities have you done work?
6 A.
Dugway, Tooele Army Depot north and south.
7 A lot of different ones throughout the state.
Just j
8 I can remember a few, Trojan, IRECO, Thiokol.
9 Q.
How much have you done at Dugway?
10 A.
That's what I've mainly worked on.
11 Q.
That's what you've mainly worked on?
l 12 A.
Yeah.
For the last, I d'on't know, six or 13 seven years.
14 Q.
What's your position with respect to l
l 15 Dugway?
Do you have a special title with respect
)
I 16 to--
l'7 A.
No.
18 Q.
Are you the lead person at solid and 19 hazardous waste assuming Dugway?
20 A.
Yeah, uh huh.
21 Q.
And how long have you been the lead person?
22 A.
Same amount of time.
Six or seven years.
23
'Q.
Six or seven years?
24 A'.
Yeah.
25 Q..
And prior to that time you have worked on I
7 1
Dugway as somebody on the staff?
2 A.
Just Dugway and other projects, yeah.
3 Q.
Okay.
4 A.
Yeah.
Before that time we were kind of 5
split into permitting and compliance, and I was in 6
permitting, and so it was--and now we all sort of do 7
inspections and permitting.
8 Q.
So before you were kind of organized by 9
task?
10 A.
Right.
Connie was the permit section 11 manager.
12 Q.
And permit section, you did permits for 13 Dugway and other facilities?
14 A.
Right.
Uh huh.
15 Q.
And now you're organized by facility?
16 A.
Right.
17 Q.
And your assignment under this organization 18 is Dugway?
19 A.
Right.
20 Q.
Are you familiar with the Private Fuel 8
l 21 Storage project at the reservation at Skull Valley?
l 22 A.
I'm familiar they want to build a nuclear 23 waste storage.
I E
i 24 Q.
What's your familiarity?
25 A.
That's pretty much it.
The location and E
29 1
they'll pick that up and take it to Igloo G.
i 2
Q.
In not, then they'd get an emergency permit i
3 from you and--
4 A.
Blow it up.
5 Q.
We'll get to that later.
Okay.
6 Is there any other chemical munitions 7
stored at Dugway other than those stored at Igloo G?
8 A.
Not to my knowledge.
Other th=n, you know, 9
buried in the ground.
4 10 Q.
That would be stuff that is not found yet 11 would you say?
12 A.
Right.
13 Q.
That's unexploded ordnance that may 14 not--that's undiscovered?
15 A.
Right.
Uh huh.
16 Q.
So everything within Igloo G, other than 17 the chemical agent you talked about, would be a 18 hazardous waste.
Is that'true?
19 A.
f'm sorry, say that again?
20 Q.
Everything in Igloo G--
21 A.
Except the product agent, yes, is hazardous 22 waste.
23 Q.
So all the chemical munitions in Igloo G 24 are hazardous wastes?
25 A.
Yes.
u.
sammmm -
30 1
Q.
Now, Request for Admission No.
4, I take it 2
that you--that the storage of chemical munitions in 3
Igloo G would not pose a hazard to the PFSF?
4 A.
Right.
5 Q.
That's correct?
6 A.
Right.
7 Q.
Because you regulate that under RCRA, and 8
you ensure compliance.
Correct?
9 A.
Yeeh.
Right.
Yeah.
10 Q.
Now, what disposal of chemical munitions 11 takes place at Dugway?
12 A.
Just the emergency destruction of rounds 13 found on the range, or rounds that are evaluated and 14 shown to be too dangerous to store in Igloo G.
15 Q.
Okay.
So how are they--let's take the 16 first one.
17 A.
On the range.
18 Q.
Let's take the ones found too hazardous to 19 store in Igloo G.
How are they disposed of?
20 A.
They're removed from the Igloo, taken out 21 to an area where it's believed to be safe, and 22 detonated using usually C4 plastic explosive.
23 Q.
Now, I've heard open burning and 24 detonation, is that--
25 A.
Open detonation, no open burning on rounds.
E
v.
32 1
not directly regulated by the state but still in 2
you're saying the Igloo with the munitions, would 5
3 that pose'a threat to the Private Fuel Storage 4
Facility?
5 A.
No.
6 Q.
Do you know if they store a chemical agent l
l 7
anyplace else in Dugway?
8 A.
At the chem lab.
9 Q.
Where they're actually using it?
10 A.
Right.
11 Q.
Would the storage of the chemical agent at 12 the chem lab produce any hazards, significant 13 hazards, to the Private Fuel Storage Facility, as 14 far as you're concerned?
15 A.
No.
Also the material test facility is 16 another area where they test agent, so that would be 17 a place where they'd store it too.
18 Q.
And would the storage there present any 19 hazard tio the Private Fuel Storage Facility at the 20 materia'l test laboratory?
E 21 A.
No.
No.
22 Q.
Going back to the disposal of the chemical 23 munitions.
Okay?
24 A.
Uh huh (affirmative).
l 25 Q.
Any disposal of chemical munitions, E
33 1
therefore, takes place under emergency permits 2
issued by the State?
3 A.
Right.
4 Q.
And what type level precautions are taken 5
in the disposal of those chemical munitions?
6 A.
First of all, we don't--we won't approve an 7
emergency permit unless the army explosive people 8
declare that munition to be unsafe to manage in any 9
other way except detonation.
10 Q.
Okay.
11 A.
Because that is not our preferred method 12 for dealing with those.
13 Q.
Okay.
14 A.
A'nd so if it is declared an emergency by 15 the army, we don't question that, and we'll approve 16 the permit.
But before we do that, they do a, sort 17 of a risk evaluation, and they determine, you know, 18 like the--a good location to do it, make sure nobody 19 is aroun'd there, do it only during certain wind l
I 20 direction, wind speed type of thing.
And then they 21 use a certain amount of explosive to make sure that i
22 the agent is totally destroyed when they blow it up.
23 And EOD usually uses a five to one ratio of agent to 24 explosive.
Five times the agent for the amount of i
25 explosive.
j
r 1
Q.
Is that sufficient to destroy the agent?
2 A.
Yeah.
And they basically define what they i
3 call I think a kill zone, and, you know, you have to 4
be a certain distance.
You know, if you're 5
within--you don't want to be within the kill zone is
]
6 what I'm saying.
So they define where that is, and 7
then, you know, make sure nobody is there.
A lot of j
8 times Dugway doesn't--most of the operation, they 9
work Monday through Thursday, so they'll do it on a 10 Friday or Saturday when nobody is there.
11 Q.
So they define a particular zone where 12 people are evacuated from?
13 A.
Right.
14 Q.
Make sure there's nobody there?
15 A.
Right.
16 Q.
How big is that zone?
17 A.
The last one was, let's see, think just one 18 round, and it was detonated about, I don't know, 19 about a mile I think to the east of Igloo G at one E
20 of thess cleanup sites.
And that one had a kill 21 zone of about--this is just approximately, okay?
22 Q.
I understand.
23 A.
Like 3,000 feet or something like that.
24 Q.
Where is Igloo G, first of all, on this 25 map, Exhibit 1?
E E
35 1
A.
Let's see.
Here is CARR over here.
2 Q.
Where is my map.
I 3
A.
Do you want to get out the colored copy?
l 4
Q.
Okay.
5 A.
This is--let's see.
Here is CARR facility I
6 over here.
j 7
Q.
Where is that?
A little bit just south of 8
the big number 207 on the map.
I 9
A.
Sounds good.
Yeah.
And the detonation was 10 at SWMU No. 79 I believe.
So it was kind of like 11 that.
12 Q.
SWMU 79?
13 A.
Uh huh (affirmative).
The kill zone, so to 14 speak, the area of--that they made sure was safe, E
15 that they thought the agent might go in that 16 direction, was to the north of there.
17 Q.
North of there.
18 A.
Right.
19 Q.
' About 3,000 feet?
20 A.
I believe that was the number, yeah.
21 Q.
79.
22 A.
We've got the report and so on.
And I
23 they're going to do another one, too, here pretty 24 soon.
Same area.
25 Q.
And what agent was involved in that i
E
i 36 1
explosion?
2 A.
I can't remember.
I'm fairly sure it was a I
3 G agent, but I'd have to check.
GB.
l 4
Q.
GB?
5 A.
Right.
They didn't sample it or anything.
I 6
They have to use non-intrusive methods to figure 7
out.
8 Q.
What's the biggest kill zone or evacuation I
9 that--are you present when they do these emergency 10 detonations?
11 A.
I have been, yeah, but I wasn't present for 12 that one.
13 Q.
Okay.
But you review the permits, and 14 permits identify--you review--
E 15 A.
Actually, I didn't review that one.
I'm 16 just familiar with it.
17 Q.
Do-you review the permit applications?
18 A.
Yeah.
Right.
19 Q.
That identifies in there what the zone of 20 evacuation is?
21 A.
Yeah.
22 Q.
And what's the largest zone of evacuation 23 that you can remember for these emergency permits?
Usually just one or two rounds, so a 24 A.
25 similar type of thing to that.
E
1 Q.
So roughly 3,000 feet?
2 A.
Yeah.
E 3
Q.
Maybe a mile max?
4 A.
Probably.
5 Q.
Okay.
)
E 6
A.
Like I say, there's another one that 7
they've just sent in for some munitions that they've 4-8 determined are unsafe to store in Igloo G, and I 9
think there's three or four of them, so we'll do 10 those.
And I'm not sure what the area, evacuation 11 area, is going to be like for that.
12 Q.
But you expect it to be on the order of a 13 mile at most?
14 A.
Probably.
15 Q.
How far--you were identifying on this map 16 the southern part of the reservation along this road 17-here.
And how far is the southern part of the 18 reservation approximately from the nearest point of 19 Dugway?
20 A.
Well, up here it's, I don't know, where is i
E-21 the--is there a scale on here?
Let's see, one inch 1
22 equals 1.6 miles.
So I'd say that's about a mile 23 maybe.
1 24 Q.
That part of it.
How far do you--
\\
r~~l 25 A.
Let's see.
The reservation actually cuts
. LJ 3
~
38 1
off over here.
So maybe a couple of miles.
2 Q.
How far is the Igloo G from the 4
3 southernmost point of the reservation?
4 A.
Just a ballpark guess, I don't know.
- What, 5
ten miles?
E 6
Q.
What did you say?
7 A.
I'm sorry.
She's an engineer.
I'm 8
guessing ten miles.
E 9
Q.
Ten miles at least or so?
10 A.
Yeah.
11 Q.
Okay.
E 12 A.
I mean, we like to--we wouldn't want to 13 approve something that's going to impact anything 14 off the Dugway facility.
E 15 Q.
Right.
So you wouldn't approve something 16 unless the impact stayed on Dugway?
17 A.
We wouldn't.
We wouldn't.
18 Q.
Okay.
And also you wouldn't approve 19 anythin,g that, in fact, would go to English Village 20 on Dugway?
E 21 A.
Right.
Right.
22 Q.
They're Utah citizens as well.
Right?
23 A.
Yeah.
24 Q.
Well, do you think that the disposal of 25 chemical agents under emergency permits issued by E
39 1
the State, posed any hazard to the Private Fuel 2
Storage Facility?
E 3
A.
No.
As long as it's on facility, you know.
4 If they found one off facility near the PFS, then 5
yeah.
But, you know, that hasn't happened so far.
6 Q.
They haven't found any off--
7 A.
There have been some found off to the 8
south, but none to the north.
E 9
Q.
None off to the north off facility?
10 A.
Right.
Right.
11 Q.
So they found some off to the south, is E
12 that kind of down in this dark area on this below 13 Dugway here?
14 A.
Right.
Right.
These 127, 128 on this map.
15 Q.
What area is that called?
16 A.
126 is called Yellow Jacket, it's also a 17 FUD site.
And 127 is called the Southern Triangle.
E 18 Q.
Southern Triangle?
19 A.,
Right.
20 Q.
So that's where you found some munitions E
21 off site?
22 A.
Right.
23 Q.
Okay.
E 24 A.
In fact, one of our own guys found one 25 right there at Yellow Jacket.
E
i g
40 l
1 Q.
At the 126 off the site there?
2 A.
Uh huh (affirmative).
I 3
Q.
By the same token, therefore, you believe 4
that unexploded ordnance on Dugway would not pose a 5
hazard to the Private Fuel Storage Facility?
6 A.
Yeah.
7 Q.
That's all in a different location on 8
Dugway?
9 A.
Right.
10 Q.
The chemical agent, okay, we talked about 11 chemical agent being stored, you said there would be 12 no hazard from storage of chemical agent.
How about 13 the testing-of chemical agent at Dugway?
Do you 14 foresee that posing potential hazard to the Private 1
i 15 Fuel Storage Facility?
16 A.
No.
17 Q.
Again, that's done inside laboratories?
18 A.
Right.
19 Q.
With protections?
20 A.
Exactly.
I 21 Q.
Like we have in a fume hood, for example?
l 22 A.
Yeah.
Carbon filtered system.
23 Q.
Carbon filter?
24 A.
Right.
25 Q.
Negative pressure?
I
f
]
41 1
A.
Right.
2 Q.
The building is at negative pressure so l
3 things don't go out?
4 A.
Sucks through the carbon filter.
Right.
5 Q.
Now, the name of the laboratories where the 6
chemical agent is tested, you identified two, you 7
said one was the material test lab facility?
8 A.
Right.
9 Q.
And what's the other one?
10 A.
The chemical lab.
11 Q.
Chemical lab.
Are those the only two 12 places that you know?
13 A.
And then they have another facility, it's 14 where the MMD is right now, it's Building 3445.
i 15 Q.
34--
16 A.
It's the old test facility, the MTF 17 replaces that.
But there are still some activities 18 going on at 3445.
19 Q.
You don't see any hazard posed from testing 20 at that location?
21 A.
No.
No.
22 Q.
Now, in terms of biological agents.
All 23 biological agent testing takes place in the Life I
f 24
. Sciences Laboratory?
25 A.
Right.
Well--
I
42 1
Q.
Life sciences facility, is that--
2 A.
All testing of biological agents that are 3
dangerous.
4 Q.
Okay.
5 A.
But I believe there's simulant testing that 6
goes on outside.
7 Q.
But simulant testing--
l 8
A.
To the best of my knowledge.
It's not 9
something that's going to hurt somebody.
[ql 10 Q.
And you don't foresee any potential hazards 11 in the testing of the Life Sciences Laboratory to 4
12 the Private Fuel--
I 13 A.
Right.
14 Q.
They're done under strict procedures and 15 control?
16 A.
Right.
They have the same kind of filter 17 system and so on.
E 18 Q.
Negative pressure?
19 A.
Yeah.
Right.
20 Q.
The testing and firing of weapons.
Okay.
r-21 What's your familiarity with the testing and firing 22 of weapons, the--strike that.
What's your knowledge 23 with respect to the various training activities that I
C L-J 24 take place at Dugway?
[~~
25 A.
Okay.
Well, the training activities aren't U
l 44 l
1 A.
Right.
And then that's all that I know of 2
for sure.
I'm not sure whether they fire to the 3
north or not.
4 Q.
But again, they fire away from populated 5
areas?
I 6
A.
Right.
7 Q.
Do they have any special procedures they 8
take to protect the firing of these, any training I
9 exercises when they use live ammunition?
pretty sophisticated 10 A.
Well, Dugway has a 11 what they call range control center, and the range E
12 control guy is kind of familiar with everything 13 that's going on out in the desert areas, and you 14 have to get clearance from him before you can go to I
15 a certain place.
And they have a gate at Ditto, and 16 you can't get out that gate until you get cleared 17 from the range control guy.
I 18 Q.
And so basically the purpose of that 19 control is to make sure what?
20 A.
That somebody doesn't get accidentally 5
21 blown up.
22 Q.
Okay.
23 A.
And they keep, you know, security too.
24 Q.
So they have to check out where the weapon 2S is aimed and the direction the weapon is aimed?
E
45 1
A.
I'm not familiar with the National Guard's 2
procedures, so they--they probably do.
I don't E
3 know.
l 4
Q.
Okay.
Do you foresee any hazards to the 5
Private Fuel Storage Facility from the training I
6 exercises of the National Guard and other training l
7 exercises?
8 A.
I'm not that familiar with it.
I mean, I E
9 k6ow once in a while, you know, an accident could 10 happen, could shoot the wrong way or too far or l
11 something like that.
But the only--the thing I J
B 12 would think of, is a lot of the firing that they do 13 includes I think occasionally white phorphorus l
14 rounds and other rounds that can cause range fires.
E 15 C.
And so--
16' A.
Guard activities could easily cause a range l
17 fire.
I 18 Q.
So you see that being the primary hazard i
l 19 that may result?
20 A.
Other than a really accidental, you know, E
21 probably I'd say unlikely misfiring, yeah.
22 Q.
You think it would be unlikely for them to l
23 have a misfire toward the Private Fuel Storage?
E 24 A.
Yeah.
l 25 Q.
Opposite direction?
I
46 1
A.
And pretty far away.
2 Q.
Do you know what the ranges on the 3
munitions they shoot are?
4 A.
I'm not sure.
It depends on how much l
5 powder you use, propellant.
Several miles.
6 Q.
Several miles?
7 A.
Yeah.
I think so.
t I
8 Q.
Do you know whether they would go 15, 20 W
9 miles?
l 10 A.
I don't know.
l 11 Q.
So it's unlikely for any hazard to come E
12 from these training exercises in terms of the l
13 Private Fuel Storage Facility.
Is that correct?
14 A.
Right.
Yeah.
Yes.
Based on what I know E
15 about it, you know.
The army could probably tell l
16 you more.
l 17 Q.
What testing of weapons, army weapons, 18 takes place at Dugway, if you know?
l l
19 A.
I know rockets, they do have a facility at l
20 CARR where they occasionally get in a certain number E
l 21 of rounds of certain type of munition, and they'll 22 fire a certain number of them off to--as like a 23 quality assurance type of thing.
i i
24 Q.
Okay.
That's in the CARR facil.ity?
I 1
l l
25 A.
Right.
It's a testing.
Munitions testing.
E L
l 4
47 1
Q.
Test facility.
2 A.
Yeah.
i 3
Q.
That's in a controlled laboratory type 4
situation?
5 A.
No, they fire them down range.
6 Q.
I see.
Okay.
7 A.
Right.
8 Q.
And that's again at about 207 on that map?
9 A.
In that area.
Yeah.
Right.
10 Q.
And what direction do they fire them?
)
11 A.
They usually fire--I believe they fire to 12 the south and then to the west.
13 Q.
South, southwest.
Okay.
14 A.
Uh huh (affirmative).
15 Q.
And do you see any hazard to the Private 16 Fuel Storage Facility from that activity?
17 A.
No.
18 Q.
Any other testing of weapons that you're 19 familiar with with respect to Dugway?
20 A.
No.
No.
That's it.
21 Q.
Okay.
Hung bombs.
What's your familiarity 22 with respect to the ai.rplane traffic in and out of 23 Dugway?
Do you have any familiarity with that?
24 A.
I couldn't give you any numbers.
I mean, 25 every time I go there you see jets flying around and E
L.
49
~~a
[
1 Q.
So do_you see any hazard to the Private k
2 Fuel Storage Facility from explosions of unexploded su 3
or hung bombs?-
I'7 4
A.
No.
I mean, unless one dropped before it k'
5 got there.
But yeah.
No.
Not for my involvement.
]
6 Q.
Do you know what route they take when they
{
7 fly for--
8 A.
I don't.
9 Q.
You don't know?
10 A.
I assume they just come off the range, but j
11 I don't know.
l F']
LJ 12 Q.
I assume they come off the range and stay 13 over military space.
But you don't know?
m-
-J l
14 A.
Yeah.
P l L,;
15 Q.
Let's talk about this map here.
This map 16 you brought, Exhibit 1, which is called the SWMU
' 17 Monument Sites.
Now, these are--can you tell me 18 what these sites are again now?
.pq 19 A.
SWMU stands for Solid Waste Management LJ 20 Unit.
l "l
l LJ 21 Q.
And are all the circles and triangles and 22
.different figures that you see on this map, do they
~
23 represent Solid Waste Management Units?
[]
24 A.
They do.
Areas where wastes have been c-)
25-disposed or treated or something like that.
The LJ I
im-1 A.
Evaluate them in terms of where they 1(
2 were--where Dugway sampled, the parameters they i
3 sampled for, and then take that information and 4
determine whether soils need to be removed or not I
5 type of thing.
Or treated or whatever.
How to 6
clean it up.
7 Q.
Does the cleanup of these sites pose any 8
hazards to people in Dugway, the people that live on 9
Dugway?
10 A.
No.
N 11 Q.
No.
Do you see the cleanup of these sites, 12 or any of these sites, posing a hazard, any of these 13 215 sites--
W I
14 A.
I mean, they've got signs around all of F~
PW 15 them that says keep out.
So if somebody went around 16 and dug in there, yeah, it's going to impact your 17 life.
18 Q.
If they follow the precautions--
I~
19 A.
And they followed precautions.
20 Q.
And stay away from the do not enter signs.
21 A.
Right.
Right.
22 Q.
So I take it you wouldn't see any of these u
23 215 sites posing any threat to the Private Fuel J
24 Storage Fec111ty2
]
25 A.
No.
You know, other than if there wan
'- d C
w L.
i l
52 1
something we don't know about.
You know, we find 2
new ones all the time.
3 Q.
And new ones, have you found any new ones v
4 off site?
5 A.
No.
Ll 6
Q.
No?
7 A.
No.
8 Q.
Okay.
And are there any to the--you have a
.N 9
couple down in the south part of the site.
10 A.
Right.
These two.
11 Q.
I guess you have--I see only one north of 12 Dugway.
Is that correct?
13 A.
Right.
Actually, though, we really haven't 14 looked that much off site.
So--yeah.
[l 15 Q.
Why haven't you locked off site?
16 A.
Because there's so many on site that, you L a.
17 know--
18-Q.
And because you don't expect--
19 A.
And also it's difficult to get ahold of all N,O 20 the army's old test documents and stuff like that to 21 do a good evaluation of it.
I don't have as good an 22 access to information.
23 Q.
Do you expect there to be any off site, R
24 many off site or not?
25 A.
I expect there to be some more sites we J
l
,m l
56 i
\\
1 Q.
They're transporting some chemical agent i
1.
2 from--
3 A.
From Tooele to Dugway for the tests.
l 4
Q.
Right.
And isn't it true that this 1.
5 document shows that their proposed route, look at 6
the last page, has a Bates number on 32156, the 1
7 proposed route is over the Pony Express Trail south 3
of Johnson's Pass?
i 9
A.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know if that's the 10-route they use, but that's what this says, yeah.
I 11 Q.
Do you have any reason to believe that 12 that's not the route they would use?
I 13 A.
Well, no, I don't.
I don't.
.I 14 Q.
And you're. talking about munitions.
You 15.
would expect them to use either Johnson's Pass or l
L' 16 this route here, the Pony Express Trail?
13 A.
You would think that's the closest route.
18 Q.
You wouldn't expect them to use Skull 19 Valley Road?
20 A.
I wouldn't think.
But like I say, they're 21 pretty sensitive to security issues when it comes to 22 moving agent around.
So--
23 Q.
But they've identified this in a published t.
l' 24
. plan here, the proposed route?
'25 A.
Right.
Right.
They have.
I k
P 57 1
. Q.
You have no reason to believe that's not 2
the route they would use?
3 A.
I don't.
4 Q.
In terms of transportation of other 5
hazardous wastes.
What's your familiarity with 6
that?
7 A.
It would just be the transfer of hazardous 8
waste off pite from Dugway to the disposal facility.
9 Or occasionally, like if they found a round down 10 here at Yellow Jacket, site 126 on this map, and it 11 went back onto Dugway for disposal.
12 Q.
Okay.
And so they would transport wastes.
13 Let me ask you a question.
How do they dispose of 14 the chemical agent that they use in the testing?
5 15 A.
How do they--it's decontaminated in a 16 solution, usually bleach or sodium hydroxide.
17 Q.
So that's down in your RCRA facility that's 18 licensed on the--
19 A.
That's done at the test facility.
20 Q.
Test facility?
E 21 A.
Right.
And then that waste becomes 22-h'azardous waste.
23 Q.
So they take the chemical agent to use in 24 the testing?
25 A.
Right.
E
u-59 1
Dugway goes through that facility.
Anything from 2
agent waste to, you know, waste they would generate 3
at a, like a vehicle maintenance facility or 4
something like that.
5 Q.
So anything, oil, for example, would go E
6 there?
7 A.
Yeah.
8 Q.
So it could be decontaminated chemical 9
agent or it could be oil?
10 A.
It could be anything, yeah.
11 Q.
And again, the State regulates this central 12 waste facility?
13 A.
Right.
14 Q.
And you have procedures in place to--
15 A.
We do annual inspections and so on.
16 Q.
Annual inspections.
And you have 17 requirements in place to protect the public health E
18 and safety?
19 A.
Yeah.
20 Q.
Do you envision any hazard to the Private 21 Fuel Storage Facility from this central RCRA 22 facility?
23 A.
No.
E 24 Q.
Do you envision any potential hazard to the 25 Private Fuel Storage Facility from the disposal of I
i
h 60 1
chemical agent?
2 A.
No.
3 Q.
Then I take it they have this central RCRA 4
facility.
Do they transport any of that waste 5
someplace'else?
6 A.
Yeah.
Then that waste goes to off site 7
permitted RCRA disposal facility, the treatment 8
facility.
9 Q.
Such as?
10 A.
Such as Safety-Kleen in the West Desert of 11 Utah or incineration facilities in Texas.
12 Q.
Why in the West Desert of Utah?
Is that 13 APTUS?
14 A.
I believe they probably send waste to y
- J 15 APTUS, yeah, for incineration, and across the road 16 to Safety-Kleen landfill, USPCI.
It's changed names 17 a lot recently.
E 18 Q.
Is that also known as Grassy Mountain?
rm 19 A.
Grassy Mountain.
That's a good name.
[]
20 Yeah.
~,
I N
21-Q.
Just trying to use constant names in this.
22 A.
Everybody knows that name.
23 Q.
That's what we've been using so far in this IN 24 case, so we're trying to do that.
l 25 A.
Yeah.
LJ L
ff 61 1
Q.
And where is that waste transported, do you 2
know?
What roads are used?
Skull Valley--
3 A.
To the best of my knowledge, yeah, the 4
Skull Valley Road to I-80, and then out I-80.
5 Q.
Do you see the transportation of those 6
wastes causing any risks to the Private Storage 7
Facility?
f 8
A.
No.
9 Q.
About two miles off the road?
/
10 A.
Right.
I mean, if a nuke truck and a 11 hazardous waste truck hit, that's it.
Other than
{
12 that, it's some kind of a catastrophic thing.
But 13 yeah, other than that.
14 Q.
You don't see any--
i b
15 A.
No.
16 Q.
Has the State taken any precautions--I take 17 it the State takes precaution in terms of regulating 18 the transportation of the hazardous waste from 19 Dugway.
Correct?
20 A.
Right.
The waste has to be sent by
(-
21 manifest and tracked, you know.
Il 22 Q.
Tracked, and you have procedures for the LJ 23 shipment of that waste, in terms of what type of L-.J 24 containers it has to be packed in?
25 A.
Right.
It has to be in DOT containers.
O
5 62 1
Q.
So they have to be in safety certified 2
containers.
Is that right?
3 A.
Right.
Right.
4 Q.
What activities--you talk about various 5
activities that you haven't seen proposing any 6
hazard to the Private Fuel Storage Facility.
What i
7 activities do take place at Dugway that you would see posing any hazard to the Private Fuel Storage 8
9 Facility?
10 A.
None.
11 Q.
None?
12 A.
I can't think of anything.
13 Q.
Okay.
14 A.
As far as hazardous waste goes.
l 15 Q.
Well, in terms of the other activities--
16 A.
And testing too, yeah.
17 Q.
Training exercises, testing for biological 1
18 agents?
i 19 A.
Yeah.
Huh uh.
9 20 Q.
The things we've talked about today?
21 A.
Right.
Yeah.
[^
22 Q.
So.you don't see any, you don't know of we talked about today, 23 anything else other than what 24 that would cause a hazard to the Private Fuel i
1 25 Storage Facility?
]
~
O
63 l
1 A.
No.
2 MR. GAUKLER:
Let's take a break.
3 (Discussion held off the record.)
4 (Whereupon, a 5 minute break was taken.)
5 Q.
(BY MR. GAUKLER)
Are you familiar with the 6
X-33 space plane?
7 A.
Only from reading the EIS on that.
8 Q.
You have no information beyond the EIS?
9 A.
I really don't.
10 Q.
Do you see that posing any hazard to the 11 Private Fuel Storage Facility?
12 A.
No.
13 MR. GAUKLER:
Okay.
I have no further 14 questions.
15 MS. NAKAHARA:
I have a few.
16 MR. GAUKLER:
Okay.
17 EXAMINATION 18 BY MS. NAKAHARA:
19 Q.
Dave, let's see.
You indicated that Solid 20 Waste Management Units, that there are a number of E
21 Solid Waste Management Units on Dugway Proving 22 Ground and off of Dugway Proving Ground.
Is that 23 correct?
24 A.
Yeah.
Uh huh.
25 Q.
Have any of the Solid Waste Management
P7 68 iw-v 1
MR. GAUKLER:
Objection, leading question.
2 Q.
(BY MS. NAKAHARA)
Let me rephrase it.
Are I~~
>'m, 3
there any circumstances in which the storage of 4
agent or the treatment of agent, could impact the
{
5 Private Fuel Storage Facility?
6 A.
I don't see anything.
I mean, if the whole I'l 7
Igloo blew up, I don't know, maybe.
Y 8
Q.
If any safety procedures that the army has
,I'7
'm]
9 in place fail, is there a potential for agent i
10 release?
11 A.
To the environment?
'i 12 Q.
Yes.
13 A.
Yeah, there is.
{t 14 Q.
Is there a potential that an agent release c-,
15 could reach the Private Fuel Storage Facility?
16 A.
I don't know.
You'd have to do like a
~
17 modeling study and stuff like that.
18 MS. NAKAHARA:
That's all I have.
I'"
19 FURTHER EXAMINATION Lu 20 BY MR. GAUKLER:
V~
21 Q.
You don't have any reason to believe that m-I~l 22 Igloo G will blow up.
Correct?
LU 23 A.
I don't.
No.
I mean that's why they 24 re-evaluate them sometimes.
And like I say, these v
25 two rounds they have in there they think might blow
{
c.
6 A.
i 69 i
0 1
up, so they're going to get rid of them.
~
2 Q.
And the Army has procedures that they 3
follow to provide protection at Igloo G and other 4
stuff pursuant to your RCRA permit.
Right?
5 A.
They have the what now?
-~,
N 6
Q.
The Army has procedures that they follow to C
7 provide public health and safety pursuant to your
(
8 RCRA permit?
9-A.
Right.
Right.
10 Q.
And you inspect to see that they follow
]Y 11 those procedure <?
ID' 12 A.
Right.
13 Q.
You referred to some chemical munitions
~
.x 14 potmutially blowing up in place.
If chemical 15 munitions blew up in place on Dugway, that would not 16 pose a hazard to the Private Fuel Storage Facility, l'1 would it, because of the large distance, miles away?
f 18 A.
You know, unless it's right on the border I
19 of something right on the site, no.
No.
W 20 Q.
And in terms of--talking about biological W
21 rounds at CARR.
What were those biological rounds N
22 at CARR that you referred to?
W 23 A.
They were some biological munitions that
-r-24 came to the surface when Dugway was doing an 4
25 investigation of a contaminated site, and turned out La i
72 1
A.
No 2
Q.
Do you see any of the other biological 3
agents you referred to, the biological munitions 4
referred to, do you see them posing any potential 5
hazard to the Private Fuel Storage Facility?
6 A.
No.
Other than like the one we don't know 7
about type of thing.
8 Q.
But that would have to be right next to the 9
facility?
r 10 A.
Right.
L 11 Q.
Right next to the Private Fuel Storage 1
12 Facility?
13 A.
Right.
14 Q.
So it's safe to conclude as you said
~
15 before, that you don't see any hazard posed to the
?,i 16 Private Fuel Storage facility from Dugway?
17 A.
Right.
Right.
18 MR. GAUKLER:
No further questions.
19 (Where upon, at 10:35 a.m.,
the deposition 20 was concluded.)
---ooooooo---
21 22
- ~
23 M
24 25 W
g CERTIFIED COPY 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
---ooooooo---
i 4
In the Matter of
- Docket No. 72-22 5
PRIVATE NUEL STORAGE
- ASLBP No. 97-732-02-ISFSI L.L.C.
6
- Deposition of:
(Private Fuel Storage
- MARTIN DELMAR GRAY 7
Facility)
---ooooooo---
9 Deposition of MARTIN DELWAR GRAY, taken at 10 the law offices of Parsons, Behle & Latimer, 201 South Main, Suite 1300, Salt Lake City, Utah, on the g
11 12th day of May 1999, at the hour of 2:00 p.m.,
4 before David A.
Thacker, a Certified Shorthand 12 Reporter, Registered Professional Reporter, Utah License No. 22-105417-7801 and Notary Public in and i
13 for the State of Utah.
14
---ooooooo---
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 25 AssocI ATE D PRO F F s 5 ton AL R i i> o n T E a s, L c.
hlh
("%l 4 85L k eD i 0 $
'8 b
46 1
A.
Testing for the disposal purposes are 2
permitted activities, and so we're very aware of I
3 what they do on those.
4 4
Q.
And so you permit, those activities are 5
permitted by you under the RCRA permit?
The RCRA 6
permits?
7 A.
Yes.
8 Q.
And do you believe that those activities I
9 would pose a hazard to the Private Fuel Storage 10 Facility?
I 11 A.
We believe that if they comply with their 12 permits that they would not pose a hazard.
13 Q.
And you inspect them regularly to ensure l
14 that they comply with their permits?
15 A.
Yes.
16 Q.
And do you have any reason to believe that 17 they would not comply with their permits?
I 18 A.
There have been instances of noncompliance 19 at Dugway.
20 Q.
And have you corrected those instances of I
21 noncompliance?
22 A.
Yes.
23 Q.
Have any of those instances of I
24 noncompliance posed a significant threat to the 25 people at Dugway, do you know?
To the population at I
47 1
English village, for example?
2 A.
They could pose a significant potential for 3
harm.
Whether or not it would be to English village 4
depends again upon the size of the test, 5
meteorological conditions, how far out of compliance 6
they were.
7 Q.
These tests, do they have a safe zone when 8
they perform the tests?
I think Doug Larsen talked 9
about safe zones for particular activities.
Is that 10 true, they have a safe, zone which they will evacuate 11 people beyond?
12 A.
I believe they do.
13 Q.
And the purpose of that safe zone is to 14 provide protection.
Isn't that correct?
15 A.
Yes.
16 Q.
And you regulate and oversee the 17 installation of those safe zones in order to protect 18 the public and people at Dugway.
Isn't that 19 correct?
20 A.
That's difficult for us.
21 Q.
Well, you permit--
22 A.
We do not permit those necessarily.
23 Q.
Permit those--
24 A.
Safe zones.
We don't--our permits don't 25 say you can only operate with safe zones.
47 1
English village, for example?
2 A.
They could pose a significant potential for 3
harm.
Whether or not it would be to English village 4
depends again upon the size of the test, 5
meteorological conditions, how far out of compliance 6
they were.
7 Q.
These tests, do they have a safe zone when 8
they perform the tests?
I think Doug Larsen talked 9
about safe zones for particular activities.
Is that 10 true, they have a safe, zone which they will evacuate 11 people beyond?
12 A.
I believe they do.
13 Q.
And the purpose of that safe zone is to 14 provide protection.
Isn't that correct?
15 A.
Yes.
16 Q.
And you regulate and oversee the
~
17 installation of those safe zones in order to protect 18 the public and people at Dugway.
Isn't that 19 correct?
20 A.
That's difficult for us.
21 Q.
Well, you permit--
22 A.
ife do not permit those necessarily.
23 Q.
Permit those--
24 A.
Safe zones.
He don't--our permits don't 25 say you can only operate with safe zones.
48 l
1 Q.
But you review their application which 2
identifies a permit--that identifies a safe zone for
.3 the conducting of the disposal or test.
Correct?
4 A.
We will review that data, but we cannot 5
enforce those types of things.
6 Q.
And if you found something you thought was 7
incorrect, what steps would you take if you 8
disagreed with what they wer~e doing?
I 9
A.
If we disagreed, we would more than likely l
10 have tried to revoke their permit.
11 Q.
You have some steps in place to take action 1
12 if you disagreed with steps they were doing to 13 protect the public health and safety.
Isn't that l
14 correct?
l 15 A.
We believe we have a recourse.
We have not l
16 tested that.
17 Q.
You haven't found the need to test that so i
18 far.
Is that correct?
19 A.
I can't recall anything specifically we l
20 discussed that, no.
I 21 Q.
It hasn't come up, in other words, then.
22 Correct?
23 A.
Not that I can recall right now.
No.
I Other than testing of these chemical 24 Q.
25 munitions, what other potential activity at Dugway I
51 1
and either go back out for public comment or issue 2
the modification, approve the modification.
3 Q.
And based on those scheduled events, when 4
would you expect the modification to be issued?
5 A.
It.'s hard to predict.
6 Q.
Do you expect it within a year?
7 A.
I would hope it will be within a year.
8 Q.
You expect it to be within two years?
9 A.
I can't say anything for sure.
10 Q.
But pretty sure?
11 A.
I would feel confident it would be issued E
12 within a year.
13 Q.
Okay 14 A.
But I could not guarantee that.
15 Q.
Right.
And again, is it true that the 16 storage of the wastes under the State permit in 17 accordance with state procedures, would not--strike E
18 that.
You would agree that the storage of chemical 19 munitions under a permit from the State, would not 20 pose a significant hazard to the Private Fuel 21 Storage Facility as long as the State's p r o c e c. 2 r e s 22 were mst?
23 A.
We will not issue a permit unless it would E
24 be protected.
25 Q.
So that the answer to my question, I take E
F.~
52 1
it, is yes?
2 A.
Yes.
3 Q.
And I take it now even under this interim 4
status, they're subject to your regulation, Igloo G 5
is?
6 A.
They are subject to some regulation.
7 Q.
And so they are subject to regulation at 8
this point in time?
4 9
A.
(Witness indicating affirmatively.)
10 Q.
What regulation are they not subject to 11 under' interim status that they would be under full E
12 status?
13 A.
Under currently there is no monitoring that 14 goes on for that Igloo, and the inspections do not 15 meet RCRA standards currently.
Also, the waste 16 analysis does not meet RCRA standards in our 17 opinion.
18 Q.
I assume you're talking about the 19 monitoring by the--
20 A.
Monitoring for chemical agent inside the 21 Igloo.
22 Q.
And inspections and analysis?
23 A.
Yes.
-24 Q.
And that's what's being modified as part of 25 this application,'in the permit they're putting in?
56 1
Q.
No.
9.
No. 9 is--where is No. 9?
2 A.
(Indicating).
3 Q.
And that is on the--would you point it out 4
to me again, please.
Right here?
5 A.
(Witness indicating affirmatively.)
6 Q.
That's on the far western side of Dugway.
7 A.
Yes.
8 Q.
How far is that from English village, 9
approximately?
10 A.
I'm not sure.
11 Q.
Do you see those munitions posing any 12 significant hazard to the Private Fuel Storage 13 Facility?
14 A.
I'm not sure.
15 Q.
Do you have any basis to believe they would 16 pose a hazard to the Private Fuel Storage Facility?
17 A.
We don't know how much agent is in those or rm 18 if any agent is in those, and we also don't know how 19 stable the explosives are in the munitions.
An 20 accidental explosion of those, you don't know what 21 could happen.
22 Q.
What steps have you taken to protect the 23 public health and safety from those munitions in 24 that stockpile?
25 A.
We've--they're unsafe to handle so they
4 59 i
store?
At Igloo G?
2 A.
The only option they've indicated to us is 4
3 to destroy them in place.
4 Q.
Destroy them in place.
Okay.
And why did 5
you reject Dugway's plans?
You said they wanted to E
6 do it last summer?
7 A.
Yes.
8 Q.
And the State said no?
9 A.
We told them that they needed some 10 additional data.
11 Q.
And why did you request additional data?
4 12 A.
There were concerns from the EPA concerning 13 PCBs.
14 Q.
PCBs from the--that were contained on the 4-15 explosive?
16 A.
In the rocket tubes.
l 17 Q.
In the rocket tubes.
So it wasn't the j
18 actual agent themselves that was the concern?
19 A.
No.
)
20 Q.
What steps are the State or the Army taking 21 to ensure the safe storage of these munitions in l
22
'this waste pile?
i 23-A.
Dugway took a sample of the r c.c ke t material 1
24 and they were going to run -they were going to do a 25 test on it in what they called the boom box, and E
l
al 60 1
collect data on whether or not PCBs are emitted from l
2 a small explosion.
And once that data is received,
)
3 then we'll act upon--we'll proceed from there.
4 Q.
How far is the concern that PCBs may be 5
exposed if you explode the munition?
6 A.
I don't know.
Pl 7'
O.
You don't know?
LJ 8
A.
(Witness indicating negatively.)
T~_,t i
9 Q.
I take it the State would not allow the 10 explosion of those munitions if they feel it's going w
11 to cause a public hazard to people that live in 12 English village.
Is that fair enough?
13 A.
Correct.
w 14 Q.
You were talking about unexploded ordnance 15 that may exist on the Dugway facility.
Do you 16 believe that unexploded chemical munition ordnance 17 could pose a significant. hazard to the Private Fuel I,'
L 18 Storage Facility?
19 A.
I believe that potential exists.
20 Q.
And what's the basis for that potential?
21 A.
Our understanding is that there are a 22 number of unexploded ordnance on the ranges at 23 Dugway.
Experience that we have received from 24 Aberdeen, is that occasionally these rounds will 25 self-detonate, and when that happens you have no
61 1
control of the situation.
2 Q.
And how far of an impact would you have 3
with a round self-detonating?
Do you know what the 4
range of impact is?
5 A.
We don't k'now exactly which munitions are 6
out there, and the meteorological conditions would 7
play a large role in that.
8 Q.
In terms of what munitions are out there, 9
you know what types of munitions have been 10 discovered in terms of chemical munitions.
Correct?
11 A.
We do have a list of what has been l
12 discovered.
13 Q.
And what has been discovered?
What 14 munitions have been identified or discovered on 15 Dugway?
16 A.
It's a fairly large list.
17 Q.
What's on it?
18 A.
Mortar rounds, rockets, projectiles, bombs.
19 Q.
Those are all conventional that you just 20 identified right there.
21 A.
They all have--they can have chemical agent 22 in them, those types of --
23 Q.
What type of chemical agent?
24
'A.
We have found Mustard GA, GB, and VX.
25 Q.
- Mustard, G--
1 A.
G A, GB, BX, and also Lewisite rounds.
l 2
Q.
What's Lewisite?
3 A.
.Lewisite is a blister agent.
4 Q.
VX we talked about.
Which one is the Sarin 5
again?
6 A.
Sarin is GB.
7 Q.
GB.
And what's GA?
8 A.
GA is--it's German Agent.
It's also called 9
Tabin.
It's a lot like GB, but it has cyanide in 10 it.
11 Q.
Do you know what type of evacuation range 8
the Army uses when they explode some of these 12 that 13 under emergency permits?
14 A.
They use a model to determine what the 15 evacuation range is.
16 Q.
Do you know what the evacuation range is 17 when they explode some of these list of these 18 agents?
19 A.
It all depends.
20 Q.
Do you know, have you been there when 21 they've exploded these agents?
22 A.
No.
23 Q.
You've not been there?
24 A.
No.
25 Q.
Do you know if any evacuation range has d
l 63 1
ever extended outside of Dugway?
2 A.
No.
3 Q.
Do you know if any evacuation range ever 4
extended to English Village?
5 A.
I don't.
6 Q.
Do you have any basis to believe that 7
chemical agents,'other than the ones you've just 8
identified to me, would be idetified on the Dugway 9
Proving Grounds?
10 A.
There are other agents potentially on 11 Dugway.
I 12 Q.
And what's the basis for that?
13 A.
We've seen some testing documentation.
14 Q.
And what other agents have you seen testing I
15 documentation with respect to?
16 A.
An agent called BZ.
17 Q.
BZ.
What's that?
i 18 A.
It's a incapacitating agent.
The effects 19 are descr'ibed to be like LSD.
20 Q.
Have any munitions been discovered with BZ?
I 21 A.
They did have one munition.
I don't know 22 if it was discovered on the range or where it was 23 retrieved from.
They did test on it.
I 24 Q.
And you don't know where that was 25 discovered?
I
66 1
range.
2 Q.
Where was that found?
3 A.
I'm not sure.
4 Q.
Any munitions that have chemical agents 5
that are discovered on Dugway, would have to be 6
disposed of in accordance with your State RCRA 7
r e quir eine n t s.
Isn't that correct?
8 A.
They would either have to be put into 9
storage or disposed of.
10 Q.
Either way, it would be under your RCRA 11 regulations?
12 A.
We believe we have authority to require 13 management of those.
The Army disagrees with us.
14 Q.
Well, have you been doing regulation of 15 chis?
16 A.
We have.
17 Q.
But even though they disagree with it, 18 they're allowing you to regulate them?
19 A.
Currently they are.
20 Q.
And you would fight if they tried to stop 21
.your regulation?
22 A.
I hope so.
23 Q.
Now, do you believe that the disposal of 24 chemical munitions under a RCRA permit issued by the l
25 State of Utah, would pose a hazard to the Private i
j
67 1
Fuel Storage Facility?
2 A.
The disposal of chemical munitions under W
3 emergency permits is the only way that we believe 4
they could do it.
We don't believe that would pose 5'
a hazard.-
E 6
Q.
We talked about chemical munitions, let's 7
talk about biological munitions.
Well, let's--just 8
to clarify what we've been talking about.
Do you 4
9 believe that any activities involving chemical 10 agents would pose a significant hazard to the 11 Private Fuel Storage Facility, apart from chemical E
12 munitions that we just discussed?
13 A.
Apart?
14 Q.
Yes.
15 A.
Such as?
I missed the question.
16 Q.
Okay.
Do you believe that any activities 17 involving chemical agents at Dugway, would pose a 18 significant hazard to the Private Fuel Storage
~
19 Facility?
20 A.
Say that one more time.
I'm sorry.
21 Q.
I'm sorry.
We're obviously ot 22 communicating exactly.
Let me ask you this.
Dugway 23 does current tests with respect to chemical agents?
24 A.
Yes.
25 Q.
Okay.
Do you believe that any of the E
4 68 1
testing that Dugway does of chemical agents, would 2
pose a hazard to the Private Fuel Storage Facility?
4 3
A.
For testing that is done in accordance with 4
permits that we have issued, we believe that those 5
would be safe.
E 6
Q.
What permits do you issue of chemical 7
agents?
8 A.
We issue research, demonstration and 9
development permits.
10 Q.
Such as, give me an example.
11 A.
There's a project called the MMD, Military 12 Munitions Device.
13 Q.
Uh huh (affirmative).
14 A.
It's a treatment process that cuts open 15 rounds and cleans the inside out and neutralizes the 16 agent.
17 Q.
Okay.
Again, this is with respect to 18 chemical munitions.
19 A.
Yes.
20 Q.
Okay.
Go ahead.
Any other permits that 21 you issue?
22 A.
Currently that's the only RD&D permit.
23 Q.
Is there any chemical agent testing that's f'
L-24 not permitted by the State at Dugway?
M 25 A.
Yes.
Lj n
ua
69 1
Q.
Do you believe that that chemical agent 2
testing would pose a significant hazard to the 3
Private Fuel Storage Facility?
4 A.
I don't know anything about that testing.
5 Q.
You don't know anything about that testing?
6 A.
All I know is the waste streams generated 7
from that testing.
8 Q.
Do you know what Dugway uses to test those 9
other agents?
10 A.
Not clearly, no.
11 Q.
Do you know what facilities they're tested 12 in?
13 A.
There's testing in the chem lab and in the 14 test chambers.
15 Q.
Test chambers referring to what test 16 chambers?
17 A.
There's the Material Test Facility.
E 18 Q.
Okay.
Material Test Facility.
19 A.
There's the Ditto Test Center, or Dugway 20 Test Center.
1 21 Q.
Okay.
22 A.
And I believe there's one other one, I l
23 don't remember the name of it.
24 Q.
But you don't know of the procedures that t
l 25 Dugway has to protect the public health and safety e
1 4
70 1
with respect to that testing?
2 A.
I know in general their procedures.
3 Q.
What in general are their procedures that 4
they have?
5 A.
Well, I know that they are in ventilated, 6
controlled ventilated rooms, and that their 7
employees wear personal protective equipment when 8
they do the testing.
9 Q.
Do you know if the rooms are at negative 10 pressure?
11 A.
Yes.
12 Q.
And the purpose of that is to what?
13 A.
To prevent.the escape of agents to the 14 atmosphere.
15 Q.
Do you have any reason to believe that 16 chemical agents tested under these protective 17 procedures, would pose a hazard to the Private Fuel 18 Storage Facility?
19 A.
I wouldn't know.
I don't believe so.
20 Q.
So you don't believe it would pose a 21 hazard?
22 A.
With my limited understanding of their 23 testing, I would say no.
But I don't know the 24 entire procedure.
25 Q.
I understand.
Now, the disposal of 4
1 1
chemical agent that has been subject of tests, what 2
happens with that?
Would that pose a hazard to the l
3 Private Fuel Storage Facility?
4 A.
Could you say the question again.
g 5
Q.
I'll say it again.
Chemical agent that's 6
been tested.
Okay?
Doiyou believe that the 7
disposal of chemical agent that has been the subject 8
of the testing, would pose a significant hazard to 9
the Private Fuel Storage Facility?
10 A.
The agent or the test residues under Utah 11 hazardous waste rules, they are still hazardous 12 waste.
Still regulated _as hazardous waste.
13 Q.
So they would become, once they dispose of 14 those agents, they would become subject to your.
15 regulations under RCRA?
16 A.
Once their test is complete, they are 17 subject to our hazardous waste rules.
I I
18 Q.
And at that point in time they come under l
l 19 your regulation and enforcement?
3 20 A.
~Yes.
21 Q.
And do you believe that the disposal, j
l would l
22 pursuant to your regulation and enforcement, f
23 pose a significant hazard to the Private Fuel a
i I
24 Storage Facility?
l 25 A.
If properly conducted, no.
l I
73 1
1 rules because it would be waste?
That's my 2
question.
s i
3 A.
Unfortunately, only the explosive component 4
of the biological weapon falls under our rules.
The 5
biological component we do not regulate.
6 Q.
But they cannot explode the explosive 7
. portion of it without getting your approval.
Is 8
that correct?
l 9
A.
Correct.
10 Q.
Where have these biologica'l munitions been 11 found?
12 A.
I'm not exactly sure.
13 Q.
And do you know what type of agent was 14 found in those biological munitions?
E 1
15 A.
I don't remember the name of that agent.
16 Q.
And do you know if that would pose any 17 significant hazard to the Private Fuel Storage 18 Facility?-
]
19 A.
I don't know.
l 20 Q.
Do you know if any other biological l
21 munitions have been found recently?
22 A.
No.
j 23 Q.
What familiarity do you have with the l
l 24 testing of biological agents at Dugway?
25 A.
We know that the testing, current testing, E
1
7 74 1
is conducted indoors in controlled ventilation 2
rooms.
3 Q.
And at.the Life Sciences Facility.
Is that 4
correct?
5 A.
Yes.
6 Q.
Any testing of biological agent at Dugway 7
done anyplace'else other than the Life Sciences 8
building?
9 A.
Not to my. knowledge.
10 Q.
Do you believe that the testing of 11 biological agents at the Life Sciences facilities, 12 poses a signi8ficant hazard to the Private Fuel 13 Storage Facility?
14 A.
I'm not familiar with the testing.
15 Q.
Is there any area of Dugway that is subject 16 to State regulation, potential State regulation,
' 17 that we have not discussed this afternoon?
18 A.
There are some old test ranges that are no 19 longer within Dugway borders, which we do oversight 20 the cleanup of those.
21 Q.
And where are those cest ranges located?
2.2 You saw this on the map that's been marked as 23 Exhibit 1 to David Larsen's deposition, n
6Ld 24 A.
The ones I'm familiar with are the Yellow 25 Jacket.
cL
h-75 1
Q.
That's No. 126?
2 A.
Yeah.
And I don't know how accurate this
.I 3
location is.
There's one also called Southern 4
Triangle test area.
5 Q.
That's down by 127?
V 6
A..
I believe so.
And there is near Dugway, 7
there is the sheep burial site.
And I believe there 8
are three sites that are sheep burial sites.
"vs 9
Q.
Sheep burial sites.
Those sites are where?
10 A.
They are on the eastern side of Dugway and 11 northeastern side of Dugway.
i d
12 Q.
And one is on the Skull Valley Reservation.
i w
13 Is that correct?
w 14 A.
One of them is on the Skull Valley 15 Reservation.
16 Q.
And what role do you have with respect to 17 those?
18 A.
We will oversee the cleanup of thore.
19 Ensure that whatever is removed is properly managed.
20 Q.
And to protect the public health and
'U 21 safety?
[
22 A.
- Yes, t_.
23 Q.
And do you see any hazards from those sheep J
24 burial locations to the Private Fuel Storage 25 Facility?
n a
E 76 1
A.
Those sites are not well characterized yet, 2
so we don't know.
- r.,b 3
Q.
You don't know.
4 h.
(Witness indicating negatively.)
5 Q.
What steps have you taken to protect the 6
public health and safety,with respect to those N
7 burial sites?
y 8
A.
We have been reviewing some work which has 9
been done at the White Rocks sheep burial.
The i
10 other ones we have not been involved with at all.
Il Q.
When will these burial sites be cleaned up?
m 1
12 By what date, do you know?
9 Fy 13 A.
No.
14-Q.
'Any schedule?
m "I
15 A.
There is no schedule.
h 16 Q.
Any cleanup on those sites would have to be La 17 done under the State RCRA permit?
18 A.
Of the White Rocks sheep burial, yes.
The
_q 19 ones on indian ground, no.
Except that the waste 20 has to be managed in accordance with State rules.
21 Q.
And those cleanup on the indian ground, 22
'they would be subject to EPA regulations under RCRA 23 or something similar?
24 A.
I'm not sure.
25 Q.
You're not familiar with that?
8 t
1 79 ssJ 1
referring to the potential for chemical munitions?
2 A.
Yes.
3 Q.
Are you referring to any other potential m
4 wastes?
k 5
A.
Primarily to either explosive wastes that C
6 are still in the ground or to chemical munitions P
7 still in the ground.
t u 8
Q.
And is it fair to say that if there's just r,k 9
explosive wastes without any chemical agents b
10 involved, that would not pose a hazard to the N
11 Private Fuel Storage Facility?
12 A.
I'm not sure what types of explosive 13 devices they would have.
m 14 Q.
What type of explosive devices have they 15 found.in the past, do you know?
~
pr, L,
16 A.
I'm not sure.
17 Q.
Do you know what type of explosive devices b
18 they've' tested in the past that may be located i
p-m 19 there?
(
20 A.
No.
~~d 21 Q.
What familiarity do you have with the n
[
22 training exercises that go on at Dugway, National 23 Guard training exercises, any other military 24 training exercises?
{
25 A.
I'm not real familiar.with those.
O
1 1
Q.
So you're not in position to say whether 2
that would prevent a hazard or not to the Private 3
Fuel Storage Facility?
4 A.
No.
5 Q.
What type of knowledge or information do 6
you have with respect to testing of Army equipment, 7
munitions, rockets, et cetera, that may take place 8
at Dugway?
E 9
A.
My knowledge is what I read in the news.
10 Q.
So you have no basis to say whether they 11 would pose a potential hazard to the Private Fuel 12 Storage Facility or not.
Is that correct?
13 A.
All I have is news reports, and I don't 14 know the accuracy of those.
E 15 Q.
So you're not here to say you have any 16 basis to know whether there would be potential 17 hazard to Private Fuel Storage Facility?
18 A.
No.
19 Q.
Do you know whether air flights into and 20 from Michael Air Field would pose any significant E
21 hazard to the Private Fuel Storage Facility?
22 A.
I don't know.
23 Q.
You're in no position to say one way or the i
24 other on that?
25 A.
No.
E
7-82 1
treatment.
2 Q.
That's the type that you say could go to 3
APTUS I believe you said, or Grassy Mountain, one of 4
those two?
5 A.
F-999 could go to either facility.
It used 6
to be.
I don't know if it still can.
7 Q.
Okay.
8 A.
They.also manage ignitable waste.
9 Q.
Excuse me?
10 A.
Ignitable waste streams.
They manage il corrosive waste streams.
12 Q.
Now, F-999 waste streams, how large of a 13 spill will you need to have to cause impact two 14 miles away, do you know?
15 A.
I don't know.
16 Q.
So you don't know whether or not a spill
' ' 17 from F-999 would cause impact to the Private Fuel 18 Storage facility?
Strike that.
Do you know how far 19 the Private Fuel Storage Facility is from Skull 20 Valley Road?
21 A.
Not exactly, no.
22 Q.
Assuming that it's about two miles, okay?
23 It's fair to say you don't know what quantity would RLd 24 be required to cause impact on the Private Fuel 25 Storage Facility?
O
l 83 1 '
1 1
A.
I don't know.
2 Q.
Do you know whether such quantities are l
8 3
shipped--do you know the quantities that are shipped 4
on Skull Valley Road in any shipment?
5 A.
It varies I'm sure.
I don't know exactly
)
- ]
gr 6
the quantities.
7 Q.
You don't know the quantities that are 8
shipped?
9 A.
No.
10 Q.
Okay.
In terms of ignitable waste, would 11 you believe any ignitable waste would cause a hazard l
12 two miles from a spill?
Do you have any reason to l
13 believe that?
14 A.
I would assume that there would be a 15 potential for that.
16 Q.
What's your basis for that?
17 A.
It depends on how ignitable, how large the 18 fireball could be.
19 Q.
What type of waste do they transport from 20 Dugway that you think might cause such a fireball?
I 21 Can you identify any such wastes?
What are you 22 talking about?
l 23 A.
I'm not exactly sure.
All ignitable wastes primarily solvents.
24 are 25 Q.
And do you know if any of that could cause I
r E
1 carry it in that direction.
2 Q.
It would be fair to say it would disperse 3
it as it got into the air, is that correct, the 4
chemical agent?
5 A.
Say that again.
l 6
Q.
Strike that.
What procedures or 7
protections has the State taken with respect to this 8
transportation of chemical agent, to protect the 9
public health and safety of the people?
10 A.
We don't necessarily regulate the 11 transportation of that agent.
All we have done is 12 ensured that the Tooele County' emergency response 13 team is aware that that was taking place.
I'm 14 talking about this one you showed me.
L 15 Q.
This specific transportation here?
P 16 A.
Yes.
'J 17 Q.
Have you reviewed this transportation plan, 18 Exhibit 3?
p 19 A.
I have.
t m 20 Q.
And based on that, do you have any concerns G
tLJ 21 on the safety of the transportation of that chemical 22 agent to Dugway Proving Grounds?
l 23 A.
Based upon that plan, I believe it can be 24 done safely.
r 25 Q.
And the plan sets forth a procedure and
' L]a
I 87
)
1 plan for doing it safely.
Is that correct to say?
2 A.
Yes.
3 Q.
And if that plan and procedure is followed, 4
do you believe it will be safely done?
5 A.
Yes.
6 Q.
And do you have any reason to believe this 7
plan will not be particularly followed?
8 A.
Not right offhand, no.
9 Q.
What other transportation of chemical agent 10 to Dugway Proving Ground are you aware of?
11 A.
In the past or future?
12 Q.
Both.
We'll take one at a time.
Give me a 13 choice, I'll take both.
Sorry about that.
14 A.
We know that in the future that there will 15 be rounds transported from Deseret Chemical to 16 Dugway for use in the MMD project.
17 Q.
And do you know what route they will take?
I""l 18 A.
I do not.
I 19 Q.
And do you expect they would be covered by A
20 a similar plan and procedure as has been developed 21 with respect to Exhibit 3?
I-q 22 A.
My understanding is they will have a plan.
L ~ >i 23 Q.
Okay.
,q L~J 24 A.
We won't be involved with the development
{
25 of that plan.
~
lLJ
I lg CERTIFIED COPY 1
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
---ooooooo---
4 In the Matter of
- Docket No. 72-22 5
PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE
- ASLBP No. 97-732-02-ISFSI 8
L.L.C.
6
- Deposition of:
(Private Fuel Storage
- BRONSON W.
HAWLEY I
7 Facility)
---oooO oo---
9 Deposition of BRONSON W.
HAWLEY, taken at I
10 the law offices of Parsons, Behle & Latimer, 201 South Main, Suite 1800, Salt Lake City, Utah, on the 11 lith day of May 1999, at the hour of 1:05 p.m.,
I before David A.
Thacker, a Certified Shorthand 12 Reporter, Registered Professional Reporter, Utah License No. 22-105417-7801 and Notary Public in and I
13 for the State of Utah.
14
---ooooooo---
15 16 17 18 19 I
20 g
21 l
l 22 23 ll 25 associ3rgo paoppssios3t a p p o u r g u s, t, c.
i Suite 2tM). s lt lakt Ots. litale 44101 Notp522 1441 IasiM0 0 122 144i 10 Wri!!rialway a
Deposition of: BRONSON W. HAWLEY
_ PAGE 13
_ PAGE 15 i
13 15 1
Q.
That'sadeclaraticaof3r:ns:nEawley, 1 erflightpads:ftheair::aftthatd::pthebcss?
2 thatthestateentsc=tair.edintheStateOfUts's 2
A.
No. Not extensively. Gene al bowledge 3 responses as cblecti=s to the applicut's first set 3 from watching them. But I have no specific 4 :ffecaldis::veryrenestswitnres;ectto 4 baledge of their flight paths, approach, retrut.
5 C=tetunI,s;ecificallyUtahTestandTraining 5
Q.
Just a point Of clarification. Are you 6 En;e ed Hill Air i; ce Base, are tne and c:::ect 6 failiar with respect to the dr:pping of be=s nd 7 to the best :f y c: b:wled;e, inf: cation and 7 wherethattakesplace,orthefiring:fweap=s, ll 8 telief. Is that c:::ec;?
8 are you failiar with wnat takes place arced 4
9 A.
That is correct.
9 Michael A =y Air field? I d n't want to the keep 10 Q.
Did you review th:se n swers, er did you 10 askingyouaboutthatifyou'renot.
I 11 see these nswers?
11 1.
I'm not.
[.
[l I
12 A.
I reviewed a draft copy.
12 Q.
I'mscr:y?
13 Q.
Dotheanswersfiledintheactualresponse 13 A.
I am not.
14 thatwejust10kedat,dotheycorrespondtowhat 14 Q.
You'renot?
]
15 yousaw?
15 A.
Tsailiar with activity. Michael Air riald 16 A.
TotheextentIjutreadthroughthem, 16 is on Duguay Proving Ground. That's not one of the 17 they do. But in the aaout of time I didn't review 17 facilitiesI'mresponsiblefor.
18 entusively the 64 page document.
18 Q.
Soyou'reresponsibleforHillandthe 19 MR.BARNETT: I'dliketoint:ducethisas 19 UTTR?
l 20 Exhibit No. 2. This doc =ent is entitled 20 A.
Correct. Thisasp--
21 Descripti:n cf Activities for Utah Test ud Training 21 Q.
This:apreferstothemapentitledHill 22 Rn;e, May 1997, Prepared by Br:nsen L "awley, 22 AirforceBase,UtahTestandTrainingRange,Ncrth ll 23 Division of Solid u d Hazardous Waste, De;artment of 23 andSouth.
24 Enviro = ental Quality, State of Utah. And it's 24 A.
The tugets, et cetu a, are the locations
_25 BatesNo.OT-19250.
25 of the pnaary tugets.
_ PAGE 14 PAGE 16 14 16 1
(ExhibitNo.2 marked.)
1 Q.
Asindicatedonthismap?
2 Q.
(3YMR.BARNETT) WasExhibit2,isthat 2
1.
Correct. Thisisactuallythebest 3 the doc =ent you were referring to earlier?
3 bowledgeIhaveoftargetlocations,wherethey 4
A.
ThatisthedocuentthatIreferredto 4 actuallydropbombs.
i 5 eulier.
5 Q.
I'dliketointroducethismapasExhibit l
6 Q.
ThatyoupreparedentheUTTR?
6 No. 3. It's entitled UTTR Military Air Space, 5
7 1.
Yes.
7 WesternUtahandEasternNevada.
8 Q.
Whendidyoupreparethatdocuent,doyou 8
(ExhibitNo.3 marked.)
g; 9 remeder? Oh, it says May 1997. Is that correct?
9 Q.
(BY MR. MRNETT) Ifyouwouldlookatthis
[i '
10 A.
Teah. I think that that was the original 10 map, Exhibit 3,wherethere'sasymbolmarking 11 prop u ation date for that.
11 militarytrainingtargets, facilities, etcetera.
g 12 Q.
Areyoufamiliarwiththeflightoperations 12 Doesthatcorrespond,dothosesymbolscorrespondto g
13 thatinvolveHillAirForceBase,theUtahTestand 13 where you h ow military targets to be within the 14 Training Range, and Midael Amy Air field on Dugway 14 UTTR?
l i
l 15 Pr:vingG:o=d?
15 1.
Yes.
l 16 A.
Not extensively. Any pnaary work out 16 Q.
That'sanaccurate--toyourknowledge, 17 there is environmental, and flight operations n e 17 that'sanaccuratedepiction?
18 notdirectlyrelatedtotheenvironmentalsideof 18 1.
Yes.
19 things. Othu than how they--hov those flight 19 Q.
What'sthebasisfo:yourfamiliaritywith 20 opuntions and particululy dropping boobs, inpact 20 theactivitiesthattakeplaceatHillandtheUTTR?
21 the environment.
21 1.
Throughsiteinspectionsrelatedto l
22 Q.
Areyoufamiliarwiththelocationsof 22 characterizingcontastnatedsoilandgroundwater.
s 23 wherebedsared:cpped?
23 Site visits. And through the compliance inspections 24 A.
Yes.
24 I visit opu ation facilities, ask questions on what l
25 Q.
Areyeufamiliarwiththeflichtcatterns 25 the operations are trying to understand what vaste I
Associated Professional Reporters, Salt Lake City, Utah - (801)322-3441 DAVID A. THACKER, CSR, RPR l
i t
Deposition of: BRONSON W. HAWLEY
_ SHEET 3 PAGE 17
_ PAGE 19 1 staans would come out of those opuntions.
I doc =entsthegee?
2 g,
k d when you 7isit de site, is that to 2
TEEWITNESS: They certainly !cck so. Yes, l g 3 perf: a tr.s:ections?
3 they certainly lock the same. This :r.e has a ccuple l
E 4
A.
Yes.
4 cf additi:r.al en the back, two tar:et a:s which I l
5 Q.
Ed are those inspecti:r.s, wnat's de 5 have pr:vided f:r you tring de if.terview.
6 Ourpcse :f dem?
6 (ExhibitNo.4 marked.)
I 7
A.
RCRA cogliance. Cog 11ance with Rescuce 7
Q.
(BY E. W 3ETT) k d d e target mad ages l
8 consuration and Reconry Act. Huardous vute 8 you referred, to these are Sates n=:er UT-3'77'49 and 9 gemrationregulations.
9 UT-37750. Is that right?
i 10 Q.
And aside ft:m site visits, 6 you have any 10 1.
749 and 750, that is correct. Thesetso 11 etherfamiliaritywiththeactivitiesthattake 11 pages were not originally part of this doement.
12 placeonHillandtheUTTR?
12 Q.
Ofthearticle.
I 13 A.
Through doc uents the Air Force submits.
13 A.
of the uticle.
14 You know, as fu as cornetin action, 14 Q.
They'readditicnal, 15 chuactuisation of containated soil and 15 A.
This deement case-this up cans free--
16 groundwater, they have propued documents 16 S.NEI. SON: Refertothenudersothey E
17 esplaining, you know, locations of past 17 know.
18 contamination to the best of their knowledge.
18
- 8. W SETT: 37749.
19 Prelimnary usessments of where those locations 19 TEEWITNESS: Thiscameft:mor.eoftheir I
20 are, what materids ne located there.
20 corrective action and site assessment tc=ents.
21 Q.
Ed these tc=ents are related to 21 And 37750 cae frca an emergency per-it fer 22 ha:artuswastethatispresentontheUTTRandat 22 treatmentofhazartuswaste,scecifically 5
23 Hill?
23 unexploded'botsfoundontherange.
24 A.
Tes.
24 Q.
(By g. W EETT) Outsideofinfc=atica 25 0
Any other doc =ents that you have received 25 previdedtothepublicinacublicrelationsc:ntext
_ PAGE 18 PAGE 20 18 20 1 frcmthemerhavereadfrcmtheAirforceorfres 1 withrespecttotocleanupofwasteandotherthan l
2 HillertheUTTR,regardingwhattakesplacethere?
2 withrespecttothecleanuportreatmentofwasteat 3
A.
Odds and ends of doc annts. That's a 3 HillandtheUTTR,doyouhaveanyother--been
( doementthatwasputoutforpublicparticipation
( providedanyotherdocumentsbytheAirforce 5 to invoin the public in providing the public with 5 regardingtheoperationsthattakeplacethere?
6 knowledgeanddetunnetheirinterestand 6
1.
Nov. They've submitted doements an 7 involvementinmakingdecisionsoncorrective 7 application for a Sub Part I RCRA permit for open 8 action.
8 burning and open detonation of hasardous vaste I
9 Q.
Andwhenyousaycorrectiveaction,whatdo 9 propellant,ctheresplosiveastuialsthatthe 10 you mean by that? What does that term mean?
10 airforcewantstodisposeofthroughtreatment.
11 A.
Cleaning up contam nated soil and 11 Q.
EcwoftendoyouvisitHillandtheUTTR?
I 12 groundwater.
12 1.
I any visit them two or three times in one 13 Q.
This doc =ent is entitled Range Rcring, 13 month and then not for three months. Most of my 14 Meeting with our West Desert Neighbcrs. We'd like 14 visits are associated with corrective action, E
15 togetac:py.
15 cleanupofcontamnatedscilandgroundwatu, 16 A.
Okay. And to be honest, I don't know where 16 characteriaationofcontamnationofthesoiland 17 thatdeementcamefrom.
17 groadwater.
18 Q.
This t c = ent, the one entitled the 18 Q.
Andwouldyousaymostofyourvisitsare 19 Hill /Wentver/DugwayRangeComplex?
19 toHillortotheUTTR?
20 A.
It's a generalised description of 20 1.
I.atelyIwouldsaymoretoUTTR,because 21 activitiesatUTTRandDugvay, 21 ve'rejustgettinggoingonidentifyinglocationsof 22 E. W SETT: I'dliketointroteethis 22 cont - ted soil and gro adwater, so more site 23 tc=ent as an exhibit. It's entitled the 23 visits out there related to that.
24 Eill/Wendover/DugwayRangeComplexbyJ.Wallace 24 Q.
Areyoufamiliarwiththeflightoperations E
25 Gwynn, and it's Bates No. UT-37745. Are these two 25 orthemilitaryoperationsthattakeplaceatHill Associated Professional Reporters, Salt Lake City, Utah - (801)322-3441 DAVID A.THACKER,CSR,RPR l
Deposition of: BRONSON W. HAWLEY PAGE 21 PAGE 23 1 and the CTR?
1 Q.
CanyouseewhereGranitePeakandWildcat i
2 1.
Not in detail. Only pnaarily from 2 Mo=tainarelocated?
3 obsernng airplanes flying through the air while I'm 3
A.
- g.,
i 4 conductingasitevisit.
(
Q.
Andyousaythecrashesthatyouknewof, 5
Q.
Doyoubelievethatfli;ht::erationsat 5 ene to:t place west of Wildcat Mo=tain?
6 HillAiricrceBaseortheUTTRwouldoosea 6
A.
At least one in that un vest.
l l 7 si;nificantha:aratothePrivateicelStera;e 7
Q.
MdonetookplacewestofGranitePeak?
8 facility?
8 SomewherewestofGranitePeak?
9 A.
Ithinkthereisthatpotential.
3 1.
h one on Dugssy Pronng Ground I do not 10 Q.
And what is the basis for that belief?
10 knov & unct location. It's my igression it was l
11 A.
Information that I have reesind about 11 vest of Granite P u k, but I do not knov & enct W
12 crashes of T-16s in the not desut.
12 location.
]
13 Q.
bd what inforntion was that?
13 Q. hdtheoneontheUtahTestandTraining g
14 A.
Generally when they have a downed aircraft, 14 Rangencrtharea,thatwasthewesternpartofthe IJ 15 theyfileaspillreportwiththeDivision 15 area,thatwouldhavebeenwestoftheGrassy 16 identifying what natuids, primarily jet fuel, was 16 Mountains,isthatcorrect?
17 released to the environment as a result of the 17 A.
Correct. North / northwest of the Grassy 18 airplane crash. Thu e's also hydru ine on the 19 Mountains.
19 aircraft, and there are also annitions on b 19 Q.
CanyouseetheGrassyMountainson l
20 aircraft,whichbecomevasteandbydefinitionof 20 Exhibit 5?
21 2 heir explosive nature, hu ardous vaste, and ther 21 A.
Tes.
22 are rd en ed also to the environment at the tino of 22 Q.
CanyouseealsotheareamarkedPESFsite?
l 23 the crash. So by provide & Division with this 23 1.
Yes.
24 information.
24 Q.
Howfararethesecrashes,thosecrash 25 Q.
GoinsbacktoExhibit3,amanentitled 25 sites,fromthePFSFsite,accroximately?
l
_ Paas 22 Pact 24 22 24 1 UTTR Military Air Space. Could you identify where 1
1.
Fortyto50milu.
2 thecrashesyouknewofhaveoccurred?
2 Q.
Doyoubelievethatacrash40to50 miles 3
A.
I don't at present have specific knowledge 3 awaywouldposeaha:ardtothePFSsite,orplanes
( of u nctly whu s b y ha n crashed. I can provide 4 flying 40to50milessway,wouldposeahazardous 5 genwal information. I know they have crashed 5 tothePfSsite?
6 aircraft vest of Wildcat Mountain. I know they've 6
1.
I do not.
1 crashed airplu es in & Fish Springs area. And I 1
Q.
Thenwhenyousaidyouthoughtthatplane 8 knowtheyhavecrashedairplanesonthewestunpart 8 crasheswouldposeahazardtothePFSsite,whydid 9 ofUtahTestandTrainingRange.
9 youbelievethat?
10 Q.
Andthat'sthenortharea?
10 A.
Because I know the planes fly quite a bit 11 A.
Tes. by've also crashed them--there was 11 close than 40 to 50 miles susy from the PFS site.
12 arecentonethatwasinthevesternpartofDugesy 12 I also know that the crashes are related to 13 ProvingGrounds.
13 activitiesaroundthetargets.
14 Q.
ThatwouldLewestofGranitePeak?
14 Q.
kdisthatWildcatMountainthatyou're I
15 1.
Right My understanding was vest of 15 referringto?
16 Cranite P u k. The esact location of that crash site 16 1.
Yes,theprimarytargetvestofthePFS 11 I do not have.
17 siteinWildcatMountain.
19 MR.BARNETT: I'dliketointroducethis IB Q.
hdyoubelievethatflyinaaroundWildcat 19 mapasanotherexhibit,thiswouldbeExhibitNo.5, 19 MountaincouldposeahazardtothePTSsite?
20 andthisisfigure1.1-1fromthePrivatefuel 20 1.
I vald feel that a crash is-I'm aware 21 StorageSafetyAnalysisReport.
21 that most of the aircraft crashes are reitted to 22 (Exhibit No. 5 n rked.)
22 engine malfmetion. That's one of the primary 23 Q.
(BYMR.BAisETT) ReferringtoExhibit5, 23 cau es.
24 thefigure1.1-1.
24 Q.
k d what's the basis for that? Where did 25 A.
Uhhuh(affirmative).
25 vonfindthatout?
Associated Professional Reporters, dalt Lake City, Utah - (801)322-3441 DAVID A.THACKER,CSR,RPR
Deposition of: BRONSON W. HAWLEY
___ SHEE; 4 PAGE 25
_ PAGE 27 1
A.
Primarily hursay, talking with Air For 1
A.
lio.
2 pusonnel.
2 Q.
Areyoufamiliarwiththetestingorfirir.g 3
Q.
Anyonein: articular?
3 of air-delivered :=iti=s or weap=s :r nissiles
(
1.
No one in putiedar. I han not read the 4 thattakespla:eoverthe1TTR?
5 specific, you know, crash reports, but that's my 5
A.
I as famili e in p nu al with what 6 igression.
6 unitions are dropped, but not the specific details
?
Q.
Andyoubelievethattheflyir.;thatmight 7 of how they un dropped.
9 lead to a crash at Wiltat Montain, c=ld pcssibly B
Q.
Are yea feiliar with de t3es :f 9 lead to a crash that would ha m the Pf3 site?
9 =niti=s that are 2:pped or fired?
10 A.
I vodd believe that it's possible once the 10 A.
h edy familiuity I have is through M
11 aircraft has had an in-air probles, that, I mean, 11 reports of unuploded ordnance that has been treated 12 that they vedd not have full control as to where 12 under an aanrgency destruct punit. b y provide 13 that airplane crashes.
13 suasaries of what smitions they trut during their M
14 Q.
How far is Wiltat Mountain ft:m the PfSF 14 rany clurance opwations.
15 site,a:prcximately?
15 That is an u a g le of one of their reports.
16 A.
Approumatdy 25 miles.
16 Q.
We're referring to a doc =er.t etitled M
17 Q.
And do you believe that an airenft that, 17 ExplosiveOrtanceDisposalRepert,siredby 19 say, enc =ntered scme difficulty while flying around 18 JeffreyS.5:ith,UnitedStatesAirf:r:e, dated 20 19 WiltatMountainoreverWiltatMountain,could 19 Oct:ber 1997. Is this decrent, bis hplosive m
20 crashatthe?f3 site?
20 OrtanceDispcsalReport,wouldthisbepartofa 21 A.
I vodd bdieve that that is possible.
21 pemitthattheAirforcewouldreceivetodispose 22 Q.
Doyouknewhowlikelythatwouldbe?
22 ofottance?
23 A.
Idonot.
23 1.
They receive an emerency treatment punit 24 Q.
Anddoyouhaveanyotherbasisfor 24 to dispose, to treat these items, and they provide 25 believinathatanaircraftthatencountered 25 this information as a requirement of that permit.
_ PAGE 26
_ PAGE 29 26 28 1 difficultyoverWiltatMountain,couldcrashand 1
Q.
So they provide infomation like this in 2 ha m the ETS site?
2 order to get the pe mit? You would have to receive M
3 1.
I do not have specific detailed 3 thisinfocationbeforeyouwouldissueapemit?
( information. I have not read through the crash
(
A.
I issue the punit, they go out and treat 5 summaries information for those incidents, and I'm 5 whatever they find, and then they provide the 6 not sue if they provide information as to vbere the 6 informationastowhattheyfoundandtreat.
7 probles originally occured and where the aircraft 7
Q.
Sothisisprovidedafterwarc?
8 eventuallycrashed.
8 1.
h t's provided after the issuance of the M
9 Q.
You refer to crash s=: aries. What 9 punit.
10 tc=ents are those?
10 Q.
Doyouordoesyouroffice,haverecords 11 A.
The Air Force provides crash summarias for 11 likethesepertainingtotheAirForce'sdisposalof 12 anydovnedmilitaryaircraft.
12 ortance, of = exploded ottance?
13 Q.
The doc =ent we're locking at is entitled 13 1.
Wehavethosefortheiroperationsinthe 14 State:ent of Opinion, F-16 Mid Air Collision, 7 14 lut three or fou years I think was when w first 15 Ja=ary 1998. We'd like to look at these at the 15 stated requesting this follow-up information.
16 break,ifwecoulddothat.
16 Q.
And 6 these records typically indicate 17 A.
Okay.
17 where the ottance was found?
1B Q.
OtherthanovertheUTTR,nearWildcat 18 1.
Tuh. by indicate clunng--ther 19 Mountain,andtheotherlocationswhereyou've 19 indicated as fu as a pnerd tuget area, Iitticat 20 identifiedplaneshavecrashed,doyouknowwhere 20 bombing range. Kittycat is the northwest corner of 21 theaircraftflyingfr:mHillandtheUTTRfly?
21 Wildcat kantain. This document would be for 22 1.
Notindetail.
22 Kitticat bambing range. Kittycat boshing range.
23 Q.
Wouldyouhaveanywayofestimatingthe 23 This is Kittycat muntain, so that's the detail we j
24 likelihoodthataircraftflyingfromHillorthe 24 get on where ther--on location.
25 UTTR,wouldcrashandharmtheFESfacility?
25 Q.
Do the unexoloded ortece, t you knew Associated Professional Reporters, Salt Lake City, Utah - (801)322-3441 DAVID A.THACKER,CSR,RPR l
Deposition of: BRONSON W. HAWLEY
_ FAGE 2D
_ pAgg 31 29 31 1 ehere it cre fra in r:ery ir.stnce? :o deV 1 theDugusyarea,andIrememberareportseveral 2 report hid aircraft n which th;r.: de ordare 2 yeus ago quite a hit futher south. As I 3 crefra?
3 remembered, they had a crash down in the Sevier Dry 4
A.
No. No.
4 Lake not, southwest of Delta, Utah.
g 5
Q.
Do y:a believe, given vo n in:wledge :f 5
Q.
Southwest of Delta, Utah. And where is 4 l 6 r exploded Orta r e, nat any cf de nex;i:ded 6 th e in referea.ce to Dugway? Eere is Dugway.
7 n=nce = de ZR wculd pse a ha:nd to de PTS 7
A.
Tes. Doe south of Dogray.
8 facility?
8 Q.
Appr xuately how far is d at?
9 A.
I vedd suspect not.
9 A.
Oh,eightymilessouthofDuguay.
10 Q.
Would d e trea ent c disposal of dat 10 Q.
SouthofDugway?
1 11 creancepeseahnardtotheifSfacility?
11 1.
To the Sevier Dry Lake area. I don't know f
12 A.
I would suspect not.
12 how frequently they test those u nitions.
13 Q.
Other than.here the tex;1oded = = nce is 13 Q.
Isthereanythingelseyouknewaboutwhere 14 locned, are you familin with where weapons testing 14 air-dr:pped or air-launched m=itias are fired er l
15 ortraininginvolvingthefiringofweapcnstakes 15 tested?
16 placeontheUTTR?
16 A.
Other than at specific bombing targets 17 A.
Tes.
17 whichwe'vetalkedaboutandarelocatedonthis 18 Q.
Andwherewouldthatbe?
18 map, no, I am not failiu with any other locations.
19 A.
Most of the weapons testing that I'm 19 Q.
AndthemapyourefertoisExhibit3?
20 familiar with takes place, and this vodd be static 20 A.
Uhhuh(affirmative).
21 testing, one of the operations at Utah Test and 21 Q.
Doyoubelievethatthetestingorfiring 22 Trunng Range, which is described in the documant 22 ofair-deliveredmunitionsorweaponsermissiles 23 descriptionofactivitionforUtahTestandTraining 23 overtheUTTR,wouldpeseasignificantha:ardto 24 Range, occus in the una north of Grassy huntains.
24 thePTSfacilityortheITPfacility?
25 Specifically they do propagation testing.
25 A.
As long u they keep their unitions on the PAGE 3e
_ PAGE 32 30 32
.j 1
Q.
Andpr:pagationtestingiswhat?
1 UTTR property, I vodd say no, it vodd not have an i
2 1.
Propagation testing is where they stack up 2 inpact.
gl 3 a pile of boss and then build a small sand bunker, 3
Q.
Doyoubelievethatthosemunitionsmight E
4 and stack up a second pile of bombs, and detonate 4 not stay on the OTTR property?
5 one of the two piles and see what effect it has on 5
1.
I guess I'm not qualified to ansvu that.
6 the other. They're essentially attespting to 6 I mean I don't really know whether they would or 7 determine how they can store ordnance in the field, 7 not. I'm not aware of any that have been dropped 8 off the UTTR property.
l 8 and if the enemy sends a missile or a bottes at i
9 Q.
Are you aware of any safety precautions or h
9 their, you know, unitions storage arsa, how can 10 they store it so that one pile doesn't set off the 10 measuresthattheAirfereetakestokeepweapons 11 next and they lese the whole usenal.
11 from leaving the OTTR property or leaving a target ll 12 Q.
Wouldyouseethatthattestingwouldpese 12 area?
13 ar.yharardtotheETSfacility?
13 A.
No.
14 A.
No.
14 Q.
Other than aircraft enshes which we've i
15 Q.
Wouldyouseethatthattestingwouldpose 15 discussed and air other launched weapons er g'
16 ar.yharardtotheEf3IntermodalTransferPointthat 16 air-dropped weapons or missiles, tre there any cther 17 wouldbelocatedatRcwleyJunction?
17 activitiesthattakeplaceatHillertheUTTR,that la A.
No.
18 youwouldbelievewouldposeaharardtoeitherthe g'
19 Q.
Areyoufamiliarwithanyctherlocations 19 EFSfacilityortheITPfacilityatRowleyJection?
I' 20 where--other than where unexploded creance is 20 1.
Theonlyotherpossihteactivityrelated 21 found,wherethetestingcrfiringofweaponsor 21 to, you know, Air Force's operations that I'm aware g
I' 22 munitionstakesplaceontheOTTR?
22 of, wedd be the transportation of huardous rute 23 1.
I'm avue in a non-detailed form that they 23 missileactorsfremtheAlliantTechnologies 24 do cruise missile testing in the general usa. The 24 facility,whichissouthofMagna, Utah,totheUtah 25 Air Force has reported crashed cruise missiles in 25 Test end Truning Range, north range, along, what is l
Associated Professional Reporters, Salt Lake City, Utah -(801)322-3441 DAVID A.THACKER,CSR,RPR I
I
Deposition of: BRONSON W. HAWLEY
_ SHEET 5 PAGE 33 PAGE 35 33 35 I
1 that,I-80.
I the time w get up to photo, let's see, five, sir, 2
Q.
Ar.dwhat'syourbasisf:rbelievingthat 2 senn shows the initid detoution. byhadthne 3 th:se a:tivides could pose a ha ard to the Of5 3 balloons tethered in the air, they show up as very I-( facility::theITF?
( sadl red dots, and they wre attempt--they had air 5
A.
Part of my activities at Utah Test and 5 samplers attached to u ch of these balloons.
6 Training Range, is to monitor their treatment of 6
The next photo shows those three balloons 7 these large missile s tors at their RCRA--well, 7 still in place a wry short tias, seconds after the B we'reintheprocessofissuingaRCRAsubpartacts B original detonation. By the time you get to the i
9 open detoution permit for treating large missile 9 third photo relating to the detoution, you can see l
10 motors. This is a, what do I call this thing, photo 10 that two of the balloons han broken loose. by 11 log of a specific treataant ennt on the 7th of 11 w re origi ully those two w re below this break in 12 April 1999, where thsy treated two Trident C4 second 12 thecloudlayer,andinthisphotothey'reabovethe I
13 stage missile motors. And--
13 break in the cloud layer. ht occured before the 14 Q.
Thesearephotograchsofthetreatmer.t?
14 plume ever got to them so they probably didn't get a 15 A.
Yeah, they're photographs. h first 15 good air sample. Ne were monitoring this for I
16 photograph is a photograph of the flahd truck with 16 releases of contaniution to the atmosphere.
17 the two missile actors strapped to it. This is at 17 Q.
Duringatest?
18 ine entrance to the UTTR facility, h secud photo 16 A.
During--
19 isoftheunloadingoftheainsileactors.
19 Q.
Or tring disposal of the--the explosive I
20 Q.
Andaretheseotherphotos,three,four, 20 disposalofthemot:r?
21 phot:sthreeandf:ur,andthenaloose,clearpage, 21 A.
Exactly.
22 twoclearpagesinbetween,whatcotheydeciet?
22 Q.
Doyouknowwhatkindofmetersare I
23 A.
Looks like three and fou, we'll call this 23 transportedalongInterstate80totheUTTR?
2( one fin. Five is of--the reason that I would 24 A.
I knoF that they transport Trident C4 1
25 believe that there would be a potential concern, is 25 second stage notors. b y have a contract, I'm not
_ PAGE 34 PAGE 36 34 36 1 thatoneofthethingsthatthey'reveryworried 1 sus if it's a contract, they have an agreement with I
2 about, putieduly duing unloading, is static 2 the Navy, h oe are actually Navy assets, to treat 3 electricity. Photo No. 5 is of an Allint 3 it'sintherangeof3or400ofthesemissile
( Technologiespusonnelscanningstatic91ectricity.
( actorsoverthenextfewyears.
5 Italsoshowsgroundingplates,littlewires 5
Q.
Andwhenyousaytheyhaveacontract,is 6 connecting to ground any static electricity. b y 6 thattheAirforcethat'sdoingthis?
7 seen quite worried about static electricity 7
A.
h Air Force is doing the truting for the 8 potentially setting off the rocket actors.
8 Navy. I'm not sure how they're all--
I 9
Q.
Doyouknewhowlikelythatwouldbeto 9
Q.
Doyoubelievethatthetransportationof 10 happenwhilethemotorsareintransitonInterstate 10 themissilemotorsalongInterstateBO,wouldpese j
11 80?
11 anykindofaharardtotheFFSfacilityonthe 4
12 A.
I don't know hov likely that would be. I 12 GusnuteReservation?
13 would suspect not very likely, unless thue was, you 13 A.
I do not believe it would pose any huard 14 know,aproblemwiththetruck,iftheyhadan 14 to the PFS facility on the Goshute Reservation.
E 15 accident.
15 Q.
Do you know how big the motors are, hcw 16 Q.
Areyoufamiliarwiththesafety 16 muchfueltheycarry?
17 precautionsthataretaker.whilethe20tersarein 17 A.
I do. Let's see han. It would be two 18 transit?
18 second stage rocket actors, not explosive weight of 19 A.
No, I am not.
19 17,000 pounds.
20 Q.
What's the purpose of the photos? Why did 20 Q.
Doyouknowwhetheranylargermot:rsare l
21 youtakethem?
21 goingtobetakentoHilltobe--I'msorry--yes,to 22 1.
The purpose of the photos, they w re 22 Eilltobedisposedof?
23 attempting to collect air saspies-23 A.
Tes. They are also, bt's see, one 24 Q.
ThiswastheAirforce?
24 additional detonation event vi'. involve the E
25 A.
Yes. A contractor for the Air Force. By 25 detonation of two first stage Trident I rocket Associated Professional Reporters, Salt Lake City, Utah - (801)322-3441 DAVID A. THACKER, CSR, RPR g
m r
Deposition of: BRONSON W. HAWLEY 4
_ PAGE 37
~
37 d.
1 actors. Each motor has a not uplosin might of I fadlity or the PFS facility, that takes place en 2 Hill Air force Base or the UTTR, outside of the air 2 40,000 pounds.
3 Q
And dis discesal;r:gra, this ;rogra 3 crashesandtheweaponsthatwetalkedabout?
( dis;csing of :::r.et stors, hcw l=g will that take?
4 A.
Ican'tthinkofanyotha.
5 Q. TheRCRAact:vitiesthatyouoversee,the
~w %- gli " n:ine!
5 u
6 I'm g saing three to fin yurs for-they 6 treatment, handling and disposal of waste, do ycu 7 have just finished a three-year program of truting 7 thinkthatthoseactivitieswouldpeseaha:ardto e possden c3 actors. They're closing that progras 8 theITPortheFFSfacility?
9 out and they're starting, the fridents. And I'm 9
A.
% I don't beim they mld. Due 10 not sure--they're stuting 9 the Trident c4 second 10 photos of a detonation were all tdan fres l'
11 stage. And they also have plans, according to this 11 approziantely a mile and a hdf away, and I don't 4
12 letter, to do first stage frident I rocket actors.
12 see how, yes know, & activities at this site vodd 13 I don't know how anny of these motors or what time 13 have any influence further than that.
E 14 frams. You know, I vodd guess they are mking 14 Q.
Doyouknowwhattheminimumsafestand-off 4
15 several yurs into the future, three to fin, just 15 distancewouldbefrcaadisposaleventlikethat?
16 on thue assets. What's coming down the road after 16 A.
Other than the 300 clears the area for a g
17 that I have no information on.
17 mile and a half away free -
g 10 Q.
Doycuknowwhetherthesemotorsarebeing 18 Q.
IsthattheAirforce?
19 transportedtotheUTTR,doyouknowofany 19 A.
That's the Air-yes, IG) is Explosive 20 precautionsthattheStateofUtahtakesorthata 20 ordnance Disposd. They are the Air Force esperts l4 21 county gover=ent would take to pr:tect people or 21 on blowing g things.
22 pr:pertyfr:manyharmthatmightbecausedbythem 22 Q.
IguesstheAirforceisprettygoodat 23 whilethey'rebeingtransported?
23 that?
l 24 A.
Idon'tknowofanyprecautions. Itwould 24 Let's take a break. We'd like to look at 25 he my belief that they would be transported 25 those docaents that you brought with you.
_ PAGE 38 PAGE 40 38 l
40 I according to DOT regulations. I'm not familiar what 1
E. NELSON: Letmelookattheonesyou 2 these regulations are or what precautions are 2 brought.
3 associated with those regulations.
3 (Discussion held cff the record.)
4 Q.
Doyouknewofanyprecaut:enary 4
(Whereupon,a15minutebreakwastaken.)
5 evacuationsoranymovementofpeopleorproperty 5
E. W 3ETT: We'llgobackon.
O thattakesplacewhenthey'retransportingthese 6
We'dliketogetacopyofallthese 7 motors,sothatthepeoplewouldnotbehamedif 7 documents here that you brcucht with you today.
B somethingweretohappen?
8 E. NELSON: That'sfine.
g.
9 A.
I'mnotawareofany.
9 E. W SETT: ThephotologistheUtah 3l 10 Q.
Areyouawareofany,orhaveyouseen 10 Test and Training Range, Thermal Treatment Unit, Two 11 any,studiescrcalculationsthathavebeendone 11 TridentC4(SecondStage) Noters,DetonationatTTU g
12 regardingtheha:ardpotentiallyposedbythe 12 7 April 1999.
g 13 transportationofrocketactors?
13 Andjustforpurposesofclarificationwe'd 14 A.
I'mnotawareofanysuchstudies.
14 like to introduce another exhibit, this would be 15 Q.
Doyouknewofanyconcernsthathavebeen 15 ExhibitNo.6,andthiswasthemapthatwewere 16 voiced by, ssy, :eders of the public regarding the 16 discussingentitledHillAirForceBase,UtahTest 17 transportationofthesemotors?
17 andTrainingRange,NorthandSouth,andithasthe la 1.
I'mnotawarecfany.
18 air targets indicated on it. And those are the same 19 Q.
AreyouawarethattheStateofUtahhas 19 targets ht correspond to the targets listed on 20 voiced any concerns of the Air icree or the Navy 20 Exhibit 3,whichisthemapentitledUTTRMilitary 21 aboutthetranspcrtationofthesemoters?
21 Airspace.
22 A.
No.
22 (ExhibitNo.6 marked.)
23 Q.
Otherthanthetransportationcfrocket 23 Q.
(Bf E. BARNETT) Also to follow up.
24 motors,arethereanyotheractivitiesthatyouknow 24 Regardingcruisemissilesthataretestedorfired W
25 oforyoubelievewouldposeahazardtotheITP 25 on the DTTR. Are you familiar with where those are M
Associated Professional Reporters, dalt Lake City, Utah - (801)322-3441 DAVID A. THACKER, CSR, RPR g
Deposition of: BRONSON W. HAWLEY
.__ SHEET 6 PAGE 41 PAGE 43 1 ' tested or fired?.
1 A.
I do not how what information he provided, 2
A.
No. Not in detail.
2 if any.
3 Q.
Do you bew whether th0se cruise :issiles 3
Q.
Do you h ow of any inf rmation er any 4 would;cseasignificantha:ardtothePTSfa:ility 4 analysiserinvertigationthathedidtoprcvide 5 crtheITP?
5 infer:ati:nforthesedisc:veryresponses?
6 A.
Iwouldn'tknowspecifically,otherthan 6
A.
I do not how of any.
7 the reports I'n, you how, become aware of that 7
Q.
Didyoudiscusswithhimanyofthe B they crash, you know, off range, ht they han 8 materialorinformationthatyouprovided?
9 crashedoffrange.
9 1.
Idon'tremmeberanydiscussions.
10 Q.
Andwhichreportsarethese?
10 MR. BAFETT: That'sallthatIhave.
11 A.
b crash report that I mentioned earlier 11 Paul?
12 of a cruise missile that vent down in the Sevier Dry 12 MR. GRUKII.R: Idon'thaveanythingelse.
R 13 Lake area.
13 MR. ELSON: Ihavenoquestiens.
kJ 14 Q.
Thatwasattheonethatwas20milessouth 14 (Whereupon,at3:00p.m.,thedeposition 15 ofDu;way?
15 was ccncluded.)
n 16 A.
Yes.
16
---o000000---
LG 17 Q.
Doyouknewofanyothersthathavecrashed 17 19 offrange?
18 19 A.
Idon'tknowofanyothers.
19 p
tJ 20 Q.
Whatin=iryerinvestigationeranalysis 20 21 didyouperforminordertoprovideinfor:ationfcr 21 22 thediscoveryresponsesfiledbytheStateofUtah?
22 23 AndI'mreferrin;totheStateofUtah'sResponses 23 24 andObjectionstoApplicant'sfirstSetofict:a1 24 f
25 Dist:veryRecuests.
25 ym LQ PAGE 42 PAGE 44
"Y'**^**
i 1
A.
ht vu the first part of that question?
2 sms or i
mQ 2
Q.
Whatinquiryorinvestigationoranalysis a comr or 3 didyouperforminordertoprovideinformationfor
- NUMy MOUts*'d "t"*,'"8 !%'l0'n3 3 C
4 theresponsestothediscoveryrepests?
g '3dy,lgi'h Of,ty,*g*,,18 fdrg,"d,gggt 5
5 1.
Ithinktheonlydirectinquiryor 6 of the corrections I have listed below in ink.
6 investigation that I did to assist in that, was to 7
C"""i *"
!;dM*
1 request this target map.
e i;dg* -
'""c""
P 8
Q.
Andthattargetmapyou'rereferringtois k
9 f.xhibitNo.6?
1, j;jg*
'""c"on 10 A.~
correct.
- 4. e.9e
__ une _ correcuon f~'
11 Q.
Isthereanythingelsethatyouremember?
!".lEe __ ua _ carecuan
~
12 Li 12 A.
No. All of the other information was p ;g, u,,
u n cu,,
13 13 information that I basically had or had become aware f*;g, u,
cy,,u,n 14 ofthroughsysiterisits,relatedtocorrective pa;=,
li u,
15 actionorinspectionsofhazardousvastegeneration is me non I;dH*
~
16 compliance section.
is UdM*
17 Q.
Do you how a man by the naze of Brad 13 m
'""c"=
gjg*
L";
18 Maulding?
1,
[9 A.
I do.
12 Page _ une ____ cazecuon 19 Reason 20 Q.
Andwhoishe?
2o
]
21 A.
He is my section annager. My direct 21 m - u n. w m 22 CRIsto m o to at 22 supervisor.
g
.a 23 23 Q.
Do you h ow what information he provided to 24 supportortoassistinthetheState'spreparaticn 24 um mc w
25 of its responses to these discovery re=ests?
2s Associated Professional Reporters,. salt Lake City, Utah - (801)322-3441 DAVID A.THACKER,CSR,RPR
IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - DAVID C. SCHEN PAGE 2 PAGE 1 2
1 1
UKITED S*ATES Cf AMERI 3 1 AFPT.APMCES:
2 NCCLEAR REGU 3 TORY CT!!I5310N 2
3 FORTEEINTERVODR:
3 4 !a the Matter cf tocket No. 72-22 4
fredG. Nelson,Es A!LEP No. 97-13242-ISTs1 ASSISTANT ATTORNEY ENERAL 5 PR M *E TUEL 3 C E R I
5 Cffice of the Attorney Gateral I
L.I.. C.
)
160 East 303 South, 5th floor 6
)
6 SaltlateCity,U: 8411( 0873 (Private fuel S:crage 1 OEPCSITIC3 0F:
7 E0RTHEAPPLICAST:
1 Facility)
I l
Paul A.
aukler. Esq.
) CAV! C. S rIN Ernest Blake, Esq.
B
)
9 SEAH, PITit!AN, PCTT3 a TMWBRIDGE Atterteys at 1,aw 9
10 The deposition of CAVID C. StrIX, a vituts in 10 2300 N Street, 8.11.
11 the above-entitled ense, taken befere 2NEITE Eashingten,DC 20037-1128 12 Sii!ELTd!NG, Registered Professional Reporter and lictary 11 13 Pdlic in and for tta State of Utah, at the law effices 12 INDEx I
14 cf FAR50!ts, BEE 2 & MTIER, 201 Secth Hus, Saite 1300, NI*E13 FME 15 Salt Lake City, Utah, en the 25th day of May,1996, 13 AVID C. SCEEN 16 cc:zencing at 9:20 a.a.
14 17 Examination by Mr. Gauller.....
3 18 15 Examination by Mr. Nelson Il 19 TurtherEraaiuticabyMr.Cauklet 81 20 16 21 11 EXHIBITS 22 18 EII: BIT No.
PME 23 19 1
Bes mo cf David C. Schen 5
24 20 2
hese taltos/Schen, 5-25-91, S4ect:
25 SkullValleyFirefrequency 21 Information........... 10 15 22 3
Hap................
23 4
Article, Prescribed Burning..
34 24 5
Map................ 44 25 6
Declaration, David C. Sdem 4-22-99 fi PAGE 4
_ PAGE 3 1
3 1
PR0CEED15G$
1 natural resouros programs, nat wtad= program 2
CAVID C. SCEN, 2 coomhantors for about seeen major programs.
3 called as a witness, for and en behalf of the Apphant, 3
Q.
Andwhatprograsarethessi
(
L n ose inninds 1,andommer Assistance programs, 4 being first daly swcrn, was ermined and testified as foratInith,urbanrarestrr,theIoanPeak 5
5 fellows:
i EZMfINA!!05 6 Conservation Cater.
1 Q.
tatisit?
? BYHR. GAT.ER:
B Q.
'huld yac please state your full see f:I the I
L Ilhare is it?
)
Q.
Whatisit.
3 rec:Id?
10 A.
tavid C. sehen.
10 L It's comprised of tues sad shrub asedling 11 Q.
- avid, my came is Ful Gackler.
- his scrting 11 nan arias nas fire fighting resources. Our Fire 12 Managemaet trogram and our leimaral tenaing Program.
12 l'E g itg to be uli:q sze pestier.s to try to 13 uncerstad the State's positien on varicus satters which 13 Q.
So fire unagement is one of the seven 14 1cr.derstandyouareinvolved. I'lltrytomakemy 14 prograssthatyoucoordinate?
15 L nat's one of the progens within er vosk 15 pestion as clear u pessible, but if at any time you 16 don't underatsud my pestion will ycu please ask se to li mit.
11 0
And pleue cescribe f:r se the Fire Haugement Il clarifyit?
il Program.
18 A.
I will, 19 Q.
Rat is your current pcsitica ud uplcyer?
19 L our : 7--muttee an arrind at through 10 A.
I'at aspisyed by the Stata of Utah, Division of 20 law. State law charyse the Divisi a with protacting 21 Forestry, Fire and State ! ands. It's one of seves 21 about 15 ut1Han acres of Stata and private lands. The 22 divisione nthin the Departamat of Naturni Resostcas.
22 rey-NHty as private lands is shared with the 23 Q.
Andwhatareyourresponsibilitiesasdivisien 23 conatias.
24 Q.
And do you have any respenibility for B3 24 mar.ager?
25 L lyresponsibilitiesincludeoversightofour 25 land?
ASSOCIATM PROFESSIONAL REPORTERS - (801) 322-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR,RPR
w,,,
IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - DAVID C. SCHEN
- r.,PAGE 25 PAGE 26 25 26 1 this.
1 V:latilitation cf radioactive atterials c:ce fres?
2 Q.
So that still culd be you statenett cf you 2
A.
That's a good geestian. I don't have the 3 epinien today, that the wild!!!es would Let present any 3 aassa to that.
I specific procles with respect to the spent hel itself
(
Q.
It wocid have to c:me from the spect !;el rods 5 stored in the sealed canisters?
5 sealedi:sidethecanisterswoulditnet?
6 1.
I don't feel I have adagnate infomation to 6
A.
It son 1d see that it von 14 have to, yes.
1 respond either say to that, to confi m or deer that 7
Q.
Ycu go en to say here that, the last paragraph I statment at this point.
6 en pa;e 2, you say that "hel breaks mid previde an 9
Q.
ht you haven't chuged yer opinica in terms 9 effective protective barrier to the principal stcra;e 10 cf wnat y:u stated bus since May 1997, right?
10 site.' I take it ycu helieve that to be a true and 11 A.
sell, that ses my m etima et that tim.
11 ccrrectstatementatthattime!
12 Q.
Isthatstillyarreacticatoday?
12 A.
I do.
13 E. E!.305: Obje: tion,it'sbeenaskedand 13 Q.
And you believe that to be a tne and ccrrect il aoswared. You can go ahead and resp:nd.
14 statementatthistime?
15
%I E M SS: Pardon?
15 A.
I de be11sve that real breaks can provide a 16 M. E SQR: You can go ahead and respond if 16 baerier that can be need effectively to protect a site.
11 youwactto.
17 they don't de se unto th esalves.
Il TE NIM 13: It'sstillmyopitionthatthe 18 Q.
lihat do yx mean, they don't do so unto 19 two greatest risks to the fire fightus old be the 19 thesselvas?
20 wildland fire itself and the potential ter see exposure 20 A.
Fire can cross feel breaks frem seed bermang 21 to radicactive materials in see form, but I do not feel 21 embers. So they provide a depes of protectise, het not 22 that I have the techtical expertise to say whether er 22 fallprotnotion.
23 tet the mthed cf stcrage old miniaire the risk cf 23 Q.
Butifyouhadafuelbreakarxndtheentire 24 exposure to radicactive materials.
24 area of interest then that mid pr: vide a protection 25 Q.
(BY n. GA31C D ) Wherewoulsthe 25 for that area cf interest, correct?
PAGE 27 PAGE 28 21 28 l
1 A.
It voeld provide pectactim, bet act gearastas 1 supervise volaatser fire fighters when they respond to 2 that a fire sonidn't cross that beesias.
2 fises seder sur W 9 H.
3 Q.
Cr:ssthebarrierinwhatsense?
3 I also had the a sponsibility for negotiating i
A.
In the seese that it seald not proclade
( agreensats with the conties in sg area. I had l
5 burning starial fuen being carried hr sements of air 5
- " ties for angstinting ensemasts similar to 6 nernes the barrier sea ignittag storials en the other 6 the Anneal Opetettag flaa se have talked abget that
? side of the barrier.
7 covered that geographie area and had :
- m H ty for 8
Q.
Buttherewculdhavetobematerialsthat 6 assisting sardme es, yee knew, our staff as the fins 9 could be ignited en the other side cf the barrier f:r 9 withis the area and providing management of thnes 10 that to be a probles, correct?
10 incidenta des ther aseded nedstace.
11 A.
That's eerseet.
11 Q.
fte Bear River area forest, where is that 12 Q.
Eatresponsibilityhaveyouhadforfighting 12 1ccated?
13 wildfires thrcughout you varix positions in y:n 13 A.
nat area at that time was a three county area
= cache, 31 4 and nos Ilder counties.
i 14 career? I guess the simplest way would be to lock at 14
~=-
15 your resse aod start-15 Q.
If yz lock at Exhibit 3, are they shewn I
16 A.
mink pelat la my camer?
16 anywhereinExhibit3?
11 Q.
I.et's start fra the beginning, clay? Page 3 11 A.
so, they're not.
11 of yar resus: you talk abcut being a ItC&D forester and 18 Q.
Nbere mid they be in reference to the map en 19 aBearRiverFcrester.
19 Exhibit 3?
20 A.
I didn't have any r 7 N Hty other than--
20 A.
sorth.
aaf irect responsthility as na RCID reesstar, het as 21 Q.
So they would be north--
21 d
22 the area feesster la tagea I had --, - m u ty for 22 A.
Earth and northeast.
23 supervising what we call our district fire saadens, and 23 Q.
Sobasicallythey'renorth/northeastofsalt 1
24 they are the partise at the cessty level that se hize 24 I.akeCity?
25 $olatir with the ouestr to ha3e trale and esensian and 25 A.
ne vastara ena se ans sider constr herders 1
ASSOCIA 1 ER I'KOFE55101W., REFUKILR5 - (Bel) 322-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR, RPR
I IN THE MATTER OF PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE - DAVID C. SCHEN PAGE 29 TAGE 30 29 30 1 sevada, the aarthern and of nos Ildar, cache and aiah I bordering nich and Cache Conty ya can find high j
2 consties border the State of Idaho, and the eastera and 2 elerstion alpine tisbar types. so there's a great 3 oreastsideofBoaEldercomtybordarsEyaming.
3 variety of plaat commaities and feels.
4 Q.
So it's certh-4 Q.
Going to ycur next position, n:rthern regioul 5
A.
It's north, north and northmant of &
5 usager, dd you have say respcasibilities with res; set 6 location.
6 tothefirefighting?
i
?
Q.
Ncrthtoncrtheastcfthis!ccation,okay.
1 A.
My responsibilities inclnded-in that J
I Whenycusay'c!thisloca: ion"you'rereferringto--
I position I had three areas, administrative areas wittia 9
A.
Oh, yeah, Iack doue, do yes see the littla 9 sg region. That included h11y all the consties in 10 state any la b gnadreatt 10 the northern half d the state fram - if yes look at 11 Q.
Yes.
11 this little asp on Eskihit 3, the south end of Tooela 12 A.
If yoe $nst take a look at those three 12 County, is a line generally plag from Colorado to 13 northers counties, those are Pos Elder, Cache and Rich 13 Hevada, from the scath and of focale consty aarth, we
(
14 going from west to east.
14 had offices is salt take, lages and Ternal, and the area 15 Q,
Okay. the three catcties going across the 15 foresters in those three offices had rat =NHties 16 northern part of Utah. I see. What type of vegetations 16 such as I described I had is my position as near River 17 intheseareas,primarily?
17 areaforester. so ther sere responsihie for those 18 A.
It varies. The westas part of nos sider li 1., 4 Og things, activities. I had responsibility for 19 Consty is very siellar to tooele consty's vegetatias 15 assisting then negotiate agrammats, primarily the 20 plant communities. And la tick, the eastera side of 20 hansal operating rians, het nr re-=^" ties eene 21 Rick Consty is high desert feels, but sagehresh, 21 associated with overall managsamat of that propas for 22 grasslands, piaios, juiper, soodland, het moister 22 that gnagraphic area as een as other propeus that the 23 sites. And in the anastains hordering-- m11, is the 23 divisins administered at the tian.
24 high asentais areas of km Elder Conty as sell u the 24 Q.
As opposed to actually being involved-in 25 Wausville range and near River Maestain range and 25 fighting er unaging the fighting of particular fires?
PAGr. 31 FAGE 32 31 32 1
A.
That's correct.
1 purpose with respect to wildfires for doing that?
2 Q.
Then your pcsition fica 1982 to November 1995 2
A.
The purpose, typisany se ease doing that as 3 as forest stewardship a.ccrditator?
1 assistasas to private landsumers she sere involved in
(
A.
It direct responsibilities dering that period 4 ranching and raising livested and their objectives 5 of tims did not inclade admLaistration of aspects of the 5 incledad inneensing the volans of forage suitaue for 6 yise Managemast Prepas as adidaistened by the state.
L their livested a that property and la seen cassa it 1
Q.
Haveyouevercondactedexperimentsortest 1 aise incledad aestering the yield of unter and streams B burtswithrespecttowildfires?
I and springs that see a side hammHt. Det primarily they 9
A.
Ihaveconductedprescribedfires.
9 vese taspting, yee base, changing the plaat comunities ID Q.
Andwhatareprescribedfires?
10 to inuinde more passes.
11 A.
These are fires that we intentionally set to 11 Q.
Have you ever cadacted test burns to nessure 12 achieve some assagensat, land annaguest objective. And 12 temperaturesofwildfires,forexample?
13 2 have set fires as part of a wildland fire sgyressian 13 A.
No.
14 operation to control vMbes as a teel to control the 14 Q.
Haveyoueverconductedtestburnsto 15 spread of the wildfire itssif. I voeldn't necessarily 15 different futi 1cadings to identify the intensity of 16 refer to those as esperiamets, samstimas ther vosked, 16 wilafireswithaifferenttypecffuelloadings?
17 thosgh, sometimes ther didn't.
17 A.
Bo.
15 Q.
So basically the objective of the prescribed 18 Q.
Do yon believe that wildfires pose a 19 burningwastokindofcentrclthevegetationinanarea 19 significant hazard to the Private Fael Storage facility 20 forsomeparticularreason?
20 andthespentfcelstoragetres?
21 A.
To sedify the plaat osmanitt. ?!picany it 21 A.
I believe that vildfires de p went a hasard 22 was to reduos the sagebrush and the piniaa, juiper 22 to the proposed famility.
23 cepeneet and anos native pasa and ehreb species to 23 Q.
Andhownachcfahatarddoyouseeit 24 reasser.
Il presenting?
25 Q.
Why would you want to do that? Is there any 25 A.
named on sg hassiedge, I de betine that ASSOCIATt;D PROFESSIONAL REPUKA tRS - (501) 322-3441 LANETTE SHINDURLING, CSR, RPR
f i '
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD
)
i In the Matter of:
)
Docket No. 72-22 ISFSI
)
PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE, LLC
)
ASLBP No. 97-732-02-ISFSI
-(Independent Spent Fuel
)
Storage Installation)
)
April 29,1999 I.
i STATE OF UTAH'S AMENDED RESPONSES TO APPLICANT'S FIRST SET OF FORMAL DISCOVERY REQUESTS l
The State of Utah files an amendment to its April 14,1999 response to the Applicant's First Set of Formal Discovery Requests (" Applicant's Discovery L
' Requests"), an electronic copy of which was served on the State after the close of 1
business on Friday, April 2,1999. This response amends GeneralInterrogatory Nos.
l l
1,3,4 and 5, and responses to Request for Admissions Nos.14,15,16,17,25, and 26 for Board Contention 5 (Utah K/ Confederated Tribes B), Inadequate Consideration of l
l l
Credible Accidents.* -
I.
STATE'S AMENDED RESPONSES TO GENERAL i
INTERROGATORIES i
l l
l Due to a personal emergency experienced by the State's technical expen, j
David B. Cole, the State is not able at this time to amend its discovery responses to Utah Contention M, but it will do so after Mr. Cole returns. See Affidavit of Norman
. E. Stauffer, Jr., supervisor of David B. Cole, attached as Exhibit 2 to State Response to Applicant's Motion to Compel Answers to Interrogatories and Admissions by the State of Utah j
i t
)
l 1
STATE'S AMENDED RFRPONSE TO REOUEST FOR ADMISSION NO.16 UTAH L The State of _ Utah admits that page 4-101 of the FEIS for the X 33 space plane, states that seven flights for the X 33 to Michael Army Airfield would occur in mid-1999.
j l
REQUEST FOR ADMISSION NO.17 - UTAH K: Do you admit that the operations of the X-33 aircraft would pose no significant hazard to the PFS ISFSI or the ITP?
_1 STATE'S AMENDFn RFRPONSE TO REOUEST FOR ADMISSION NO.
)
17 - UTAH L i
To the extent all X-33 space plane flights are in fact completed by mid-1999, the State of Utah admits Request for Admission No.17. However, it should be noted for the i
record that it is now the end of April 1999 and no X-33 space plane flights have occurred to date, thus, completion ~ of all planned 'X-33 flights to Michael Army Airfield, as i
contemplated in the FEIS, may not in fact be completed by mid-1999.
REQUEST FOR ADMISSION NO. 25 UTAH K:' Do you admit that activities at or emanating from Salt Lake City International Airport, other than aircraft flying to or from the airport, would pose no significant hazard to the PFS ISFSI or the ITP?
STATE'S AMENDFD RFRPONSE TO REOUEST FOR ADMISSION NO. 25 - UTAH L The State of Utah admits that activities at or emanating from Salt Lake City International Airport, other than aircraft flying to or from the airport, would pose no significant. hazard to the PFS ISFSI or the ITP.
8
DECLARATION I, William M. Wallner, hereby declare under penalty of perjury and pursuant to 28 U.S.C. 6 1746, that the statements contained in State cf Utah's April 14,1999, Responses and Objections to Applicant's First Set of Formal Discovery Requests, with respect to Utah Contention K (Inadequate Consideration of Credible Accidents, specifically Alliant Techsystems) are true and correct to the best of my knowledge,information and belief.
Dated this 22nd day of April,1999.
By:
MU William M. Wallner Environmental Scientist Division of Solid and Hazardous Waste Utah Department of Environmental Quality
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD
)
In the Matter of:
)
Docket No. 72 22-ISFSI
)
PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE, LLC
)
ASLBP No. 97-732-02-ISFSI (Independent Spent Fuel
)
Storage Installation)
)
April 14,1999 STATE OF UTAH'S RESPONSES AND OBJECTIONS TO APPLICANT'S FIRST SET OF FORMAL DISCOVERY REQUESTS The State of Utah files this respome to the Applicant's First Set of Formal Discovery Requests (" Applicant's Discovery Requests"), an electronic copy of which was served on the State after the close of business on Friday, April 2,1999. The State and the Applicant have agreed that the party responding to Requests for Admissions and Interrogatories, during the formal discovery period, may have eight working days in which to timely file a response.
GENERAL OBJECTIONS These objections apply to the State of Utah's responses to all of the Applicant's First Set of Formal Discovery Requests.
1.
The State of Utah objects to the Applicant's instructions and definitions on the grounds and to the extent that they request or purport to impose upon the State any obligation to respond in manner or scope beyond the requirements set forth in 10 l
l CFR $$ 2.740,2.741 and 2.742.
f i
i 1
1 j
l l
Notwithstanding the general objection stated on pages 19-20, the State objects f
to this Request for Admission on the grounds that it is repetitive of Request for j
i Admission Nos.1 and 2 and is unduly burdensome. Notwithstanding these objections, the State denies the request on information and belief.
Dugway Proving Ground REQUEST FOR ADMISSION NO. 4. UTAH K:
Do you admit that the storage and/or dirposal of chemical and other ordnance, including the open burning and open detonation of such ordnance, conducted at Dugway Proving Ground would pose no significant hazard to the PFS ISFSI or the ITP?
STATE'S RESPONSE TO REOUEST FOR ADMISSION NO. 4 UTAH 1
L In addition to the general objection stated on pages 19-20, the State objects to this Request on the ground that it is over broad. Notwithstanding these objections, l
Admission No. 4 is denied, except with respect to the following statement. The State l
of Utah admits storage of chemical and other ordnance would not pose a significant hazard to the PFS ISFSI or ITP provided that: a) the chemical or other ordnance is a hazardous waste as defined in $19-6102(9) Utah Code Ann., b) the hazardous waste is stored at a Dugway Proving Ground storage area permitted by the State of Utah, and c) storage is conducted in accordance with the procedures authorized by $19-6-108(3)(a)
I Utah Code Ann.
REQUEST FOR ADMISSION NO. 5. UTAH K:
Do you admit that the testing, handling, analysis, and disposal of biological agents conducted at Dugway Proving Ground would pose no significant hazard to the PFS ISFSI or the ITP?
i i
STATE'S RESPONSE TO REOUEST FOR ADMISSION NO. 5 - UTAH k
In addition to the general objection stated on pages 19 20, the State objects to this Request on the ground that it is over broad. Notwithstanding these objections, 1
Admission No 5 is denied, except with respect to the following statement. The State admits that the testing, handling, analysis, and disposal of biological agents conducted at the Dugway Proving Ground Life Sciences Laboratory would not present significant hazard to the PFS ISFSI or the ITP provided that the testing, handling, analysis, and disposal are conducted in accordance with the information, test procedures, and protocol provided to the Governor of the State of Utah's Technical Review Committee for Dugway Proving Ground.
REQUEST FOR ADMISSION NO. 6 - UTAH L Do you admit that the testing, handling, analysis, and disposal of chemical and other non-biological agents conducted at Dugway Proving Ground would pose no significant hazard to the PFS ISFSI or theITP?
STATE'S RESPONSE TO REOUEST FOR ADMISSION NO. 6 - UTAH L
In addition to the general objection stated on pages 19-76, the State objects to this Request on the ground that it is over broad. Notwithstanding these objections, Admission No. 6 is denied on information and belief.
REQUEST FOR ADMISSION NO. 7. UTAH L Do you admit that the weapons and munitions testing conducted at Dugway Proving Ground, other than testing of air-launched or aircraft delivered weapons or munitions, would pose no significant hazard to the PFS ISFSI or the ITP?
23
F.
g l
i objection, the Admission is denied on information and belief. To the best of the
{
l State's knowledge no fire break currently exists at the ISFSI site. Furthermore, PFS has not described with specificity how the fire break will be constructed and rinaintained.
J i
REQUEST FOR ADMISSION NO.38 UTAH K:
Do you admit that wildfires pose no significant hazard to the PFS ISFSI or the ITP?
STATE'S RESPONSE TO REOUEST FOR ADMISSION NO. 38 -
UTAH K:
)
The State objects to this Admission as over broad. Notwithstanding this
]
l objection, the Admission is denied on information and belief.
B.
INTERROGATORIES - UTAH K/ CONFEDERATED TRIBES B INTERROGATORY NO. I - UTAH K. To the extent the State does not admit admissions 3,18,24, and 28 above, identify the specific activities or materials (specific type and quantity) at, or emanating from, the Tekoi Rocket Engine Test facility, Dugway Proving Ground, Salt Lake City National Algort, Hill Air Force Base and the Utah Test and Training Range that the State claims would pose a l
significant hazard to the PFS ISFSI and/or the ITP.
STATE'S BFCPONSE TO INTERROGATORY NO.1 - UTAH Kr Without waiving its right to supplement or modify its response, the State responds that the following incidents may pose a significant threat:
a) Incidents related to air-t& air, air-to-ground, and ground-to-ground combat training with varying quantities of inert and live ordnance at, emanating from, or en L
route to the Utah Test and Training Range and Dugway Proving Ground. Examples 34 l
include the accidental bombing of the ISFSI or ITP with live or inert weapons, including missiles and bombs, the intentional release of a fuel tank during an emergency, or flying debrit traveling in excess of 126 miles per hour.
b) Incidents related to the testing and training of air-launched weapons, including cruise missiles and side winder missiles, at, emanating from, or en route to i
the Utah Test and Training Range and Dugway Proving Ground which strike the ISFSI or ITP.
c) Incidents related to air traffic, including military F c., attack Black Hawk and Apache helicopters, B-1 bombers, F 16, Falon jets, etc.), commercial jets flying along commercial corridors or over military airspace, private jets and planes, and aerospace (e.g., X-33 space plane, space shuttle), at, emanating from, en route to, flying over, or landing at Skull Valley, the Utah Test and Training Range, Dugway Proving Ground, Tooele Valley, and the I 80 corridor in which the air craft directly crash into the ISFSI or ITP, or flying debris, including jet engines, strike the casks at a speed in excess of 126 miles per hour.
d) Incidents related to the unauthorized treatment, storage, or disposal of hazardous waste at or emanating from Dugway Proving Ground, the Utah Test and Training Range, or elsewhere in the vicinity of the PFS ISFSI or ITP.
e) Incidents related to the testing of military weapons or rocket motors at or emanating from the Dugway Proving Ground, Utah Test and Training Range, or the 35
Alliant Systems Tekoi Rocket Test Facility such as accidental explosions or detonations of propellant, explosives, or rocket motors, a misfired weapon hitting the ISFSI of ITP, or potential electrical problems created by smoke and paniculate from a rocket motor test fire.
f) Incidents related to currently unknown former activities with hazardous, radioactive, or toxic waste or materials at or emanating from the Dugway Proving Ground, Utah Test and Training range or elsewhere in the vicinity of the PFS ISFSI or ITP, (e.g., incidents that may cause harm to PFS employees or cause the ISFSI or ITP to be evacuated, leaving the facility unsecured or confounding the radiation detection monitors).
g) Incidents related to future unknown military activities at or emanating from the Dugway Proving Ground, Utah Test and Training Range, Hill Air Force Base, or other military operations which will utilize the Dugway Proving Ground or Utah Test and Training Range; h) incidents related to the transportation of chemical agents, biological agents,
' ' xplosives, propellants, hazardous, radioactive, and toxic wastes, hazardous materials e
along Skull Valley Road, Interstate 80, and the rail spur that parallels Interstate 80 from or en route to Dugway Proving Ground, Utah Test and Training Range, or Alliant Systems Tekoi Rocket Test Facility in quantities which may detonate or explode or when released or spilled may harm ISFSI or ITP employees, and cause the G
36
1 evacuation of the ISFSI or ITP, or close transportation routes.
INTERROGATORY NO. 2 - UTAH K. To the extent the State does not admit admissions 29 32 above, identity the transportation of hazardous materials (i.e.,
specific quantities and type of waste) to or from the Laidlaw Aptus hazardeus waste incinerator, the Envirocare low level radioactive and mixed waste landfill, the Laidlaw Clive Hazardous Waste Facility, and the Laidlaw Grassy Mountain hazardous waste landfill that the State claims would pose a significant hazard to the ITP.
STATE'S RESPONSE TO INTERROGATORY NO. 2 - UTAH K:
Without waiving its right to supplement or modify its response, the State responds that any hazardous, radioactive, or toxic waste or hazardous materials in a quantity which may a) explode or when released or spilled may harm ITP employees, b)'cause the evacuation of the ITP, c) close transponation routes, or d) confine the radiation monitoring equipment at the ITP would have a significant impact on the ITP. In addition, any hazardous, radioactive, or toxic waste or hazardous material in a quantity when transportation is halted in an area due to congestion with spent fuel shipments may increase the potential risks to personnel transporting spent fuel or operating the ITP orISFSI.
INTERROGATORY NO. 3 - UTAH K. Identify and fully explain the scientific, technical, statistical and/or other bases on which the State claims that each of the activities and/or materials identified in response to interrogatories 1 and 2 above would pose a significant hazard to the PFS ISFSI and/or ITP.
STATE'S RFRPONSE TO INTERROGATORY NO. 3 UTAH K:
The State of Utah objects to Interrogatory No. 3 as over broad.
Notwithstanding this objection and without waiving its objections or its right to 37
(i 4d UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION i
BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD i
)
In the Matter of:
)
Docket No. 72-22-ISFSI
)
PRIVATE FUEL STORAGE, LLC
)
ASLBP No. 97-732-02-ISFSI (Independent Spent Fuel
)
Storage Installation)
)
June 4,1999 STATE OF UTAH'S RESPONSE TO APPLICANT'S SECOND AND THIRD SETS OF DISCOVERY REQUESTS WITH RESPECT TO GROUP I CONTENTIONS The State responds to Applicant's Second and Third Sets of Discovery Requests with respect to Group I contentions. Applicant's Second Set of Discovery Requests, dated May 13,1999, as it relates to Group I contentions, includes Utah K (credible accidents) and Utah Security contentions. Applicant's Third Set of Discovery Requests, dated May 18,1999, relates to Utah K and Utah M (probable maximum flood) only.
The State files declarations (included hereto as Exhibit 1) for each person who assisted in answering particular interrogatories and requests for admissions, specifically; i
2 Martin D. Gray, Dane Finerfrock, Bronson W. Hawley', David Larsen, John L.
While Bronson W. Hawley reviewed these Responses, he was unavailable to sign his Declaration, which will be filed once he has signed it.
2 While David Larsen reviewed these Responses, he was unavailable to sign his Declaration, which will be filed once he has signed it.
p, The State objects to this Request for Admission on the grounds that the term
" approaches"is ambiguous. Request for Admission No.10 does not appear to be referring to the boundary of the UTTR, South Area. Cf Admission Request No.10 with Request No.12. Notwithstanding the previous objection, assuming the term
" approaches" refers to aircraft approach into the Utah Test and Training Range, South Area, then the Admission Request No.10 is denied.
ADMISSION REQUEST NO.11 - UTAH K. Do you admit that most of the Air Force targets for training with air-delivered munitions on the UTTR, South Area are located at Wildcat Mountain?
RESPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO.11 - UTAH H.
The State objects to this Request for Admission on the grounds that the term "most" is ambiguous. Notwithstanding the previous objection, assuming the term "most" means more than fifty percent, then the Admission Request No.11 is denied.
ADMISSION REQUEST NO.12 UTAH K. Do you admit that Wildcat Mountain is more than 25 miles from the PFSF?
RESPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO.12 - UTAH K.
Admission Request No.12 is denied.
l ADMISSION REQUEST NO.13 - UTAH K. Do you admit that the State and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any military aircraft flying to or from the UTTR that has released a weapon (e.g.,
missile, bomb, or rocket) outside the area in which the weapon was intended to be i
released?
l RESPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO.13 UTAHX.
The State objects to Admission No.13 to the extent that it implies that no such 15 t
I t -
[.
1%
information exists. However, the State admits that currently it has no record of the matter described in Admission Request No.13.
. ADMISSION REQUEST NO.14 - UTAH K. Do you admit that the State 3
and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, s
of any military aircraft having released live ordnance over Skull Valley?
RESPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO.14 - UTAH K.
The State objects to Admission No.14 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. However, the State admits that currently it has no record of the
]
matter described in Admission Request No.14.
ADMISSION REQUEST NO.15 - UTAH K. Do you admit that the State's and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any incident on Dugway Proving Ground involving chemical munitions or agents having harmed anyone off of Dugway Proving Ground, other than the 1968 sheep incident?
RFRPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO.1S - UTAH K.
The State objects to Admission No.15 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. The State also objects to this Request for Admission on the grounds that the term "having harmed anyone" is ambiguous. Notwithstanding the previous objections, assuming that "1968 sheep incident" is presumed to "hav[e]
harmed [some]one," then Admission Request No.15 is denied.
j i
' ADMISSION REQUEST NO.16 UTAH K. Do you admit that the State l
and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any incident on Dugway Proving Ground involving biological munitions or agents having harmed anyone off of Dugway Proving Ground?
RESPOhlSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO.16 - UTAH K.
16
m, The State objects to Admission No.16 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. The State also objects to this Request for Admission on the i
grounds that the term "having harmed anyone" is ambiguous. Notwithstanding the previous objections, if "1968 sheep incident" mentioned in Admission Request 15 is presumed to "hav[e] harmed [some]one," then the State admits Admission Request No.
16.
ADMISSION REQUEST NO.17 - UTAH K. Do you admit that the State and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any incident in which a chemical or biological munition on Dugway Proving Ground spontaneously exploding?
RFRPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO.17 -Iff*AH K.
The State objects to Admission No.17 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. Notwithstanding the previous objection, the State admits j
Admission Request No.17.
ADMISSION REQUEST NO.18 - UTAH K. Do you admit that the State and its consultants have no knows :dge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any incident involving the trangortation of chemical munitions or agents to or from Dugway Proving Ground in which a person was harmed by exposure to chemical
' agent?
RFSPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO.18 - UTAH K.
The State objects to Admission No.18 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. The State also objects to this Request for Admission on the grounds that the term " harmed" is ambiguous and not defined. Notwithstanding the previous objections, the State admits Admission Request No.18.
l 17 I
l
a t
ADMISSION REQUEST NO.19 - UTAH K. Do you admit that the State and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any incident involving the transportation of biological munitions or agents to or from Dugway Proving Ground in which a person was harmed by exposure to biological agent?
RFSPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO.19 - UTAH K The State objects to Admission No.19 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. The State also objects to this Request for Admission on the grounds that the term " harmed" is ambiguous and not defined. Notwithstanding the previous objections, the State admits Admission Request No.19.
ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 20 - UTAH K. Do you admit that the State and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any incident involving the transportation of hazardous materials, other than chemical munitions, chemical agents, biological munitions, or biological agents, to or from Dugway Proving Ground in which a person was harmed by exposure to such hazardous material?
RESPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 20 - UTAH Kr The State objects to Admission No. 20 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. The State also objects to this Request for Admission on the grounds that the term " harmed" is ambiguous and not defined. Notwithstanding the previous objections, the State admits Admission Request No. 20.
ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 21 - UTAH K. Do you admit that the State and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any incident involving the transportation of hazardous materials to or from the Aptus hazardous waste incinerator in which a person was harmed by exposure to such hazardous material?
RFSPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 21 - UTAH Kr 18
g s
The State objects to Admission No. 21 to the extent that it implies that ao such information exists. The State also objects to this Request for Admission on the grounds that the term " harmed" is ambiguous and not defined. - Notwithstanding the l
l previous objections, the State admits Admission Request No. 21.
l l
ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 22 - UTAH K. Do you admit that the State and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, i
of any incident involving the transportation of hazardous materials to or from the Clive hazardous waste incinerator in which a person was harmed by exposure to such hazardous material?
RESPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 22 - UTAH K.
l The State objects to Admission No. 22 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. The State also objects to this Request for Admission on the grounds i
that the term " harmed" is ambiguous and not defined. Notwithstanding the previous objections, the State admits Admission Request No. 22.
l ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 23 - UTAH K. Do you admit that the State and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise,
)
of any incident involving the transportation of hazardous materials (including radioactive materials) to or from the Envirocare low-level radioactive waste and mixed waste landfill in which a person was harmed by exposure to such material?
RESPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 73 - UTAH Kr The State oF*s to Admission No. 23 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. i ne State also objects to the term " harmed" as ambiguous and l
undefined. Notwithstanding these objections, with respect to the radioactive elements l
of hazardous materials, Admission Request No. 23 is denied. However, the State 19 1
e i
admits that it has no record of any incident involving the transportation of ' 2ardous l
materials, other than the radioactive elements, to or from Envirocare in which a person was harmed.
ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 24 UTAH K. Do you admit that the State and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any incident involving the transportation of hazardous materials to or from the Grassy Mountain hazardous waste (including radioactive materials) landfill in which a person was harmed by exposure to such such material?
RFSPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 24 - UTAH Kr The State objects to Admission No. 24 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. In addition, the Safety Kleen Grassy Mountain hazardous waste l
landfill is not authorized to handle radioactive material. Thus, with respect to non-radioactive hazardous materials, the State admits Admission Request No. 24.
ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 25 - UTAH K. Do you admit that the State and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any incident in which a rocket motor at the Tekoi Rocket Engine Test Facility exploded while being test fired?
l RFRPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 25 - UTAH K.
The State objects to Admission No. 25 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. Notwithstanding the previous objection, the S tate admits l
Admission Request No. 25.
ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 26 - UTAH K. Do you admit that the State and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any incident in which a rocket motor at the Tekoi Rocket Engine Test Facility escaped its test stand while being test fired?
20
Fe s
I RESPONSE TO ADMISSION REOUEST NO. 26 - UTAH Kr The State objects to Admission No. 26 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. Notwithstanding the previous objection, the State admits Admission Request No. 26.
ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 27 - dTAH K.
Do you admit that the State and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any incident in which a rocket motor being transported to the Tekoi Rocket Engine Test Facility exploded or ignited while in transit?
RFRPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 27 - UTAH Kr The State objects to Admission No. 27 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. Notwithstanding the previous objection, the State admits Admission Request No. 27.
ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 28 - UTAH K. Do you admit that the State an'd its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any incident in which a rocket motor being transported to the former Bacchus Works rocket engine test facility exploded or ignited while in transit?
RESPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 28 - UTAH Kr The State objects to Admission No. 28 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. Notwithstanding the previous objection, the State admits Admission Request No. 28.
ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 29 UTAH K. Do you admit that the State and its consultar.ts have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any incident in which electromagnetic emissions from a ground facility caused the' crash of an aircraft flying within 10 miles of such facility?
RESPONSE TO ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 29 - UTAH Kr 21 I
l r
"s The State objects to Admission No. 29 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. Notwithstanding the previous objection, the State admits Admission Request No. 29.
ADMISSION REQUEST NO. 30 - UTAH K. Do you admit that the State i
and its consultants have no knowledge of any record in their possession, or otherwise, of any incident in which the smoke plume from a fire or explosion prevented the correct operation of any electronic device more than two miles from the fire or explosion?
RESPONSE TO ADMIMSION REOUEST NO. 30 - UTAH K.
The State objects to Admission No. 30 to the extent that it implies that no such information exists. Notwithstanding the previous objection, Admission Request No.
l 30 is admitted in part and denied in part. The State admits'that it may not currently have in its possession any record of the matter described in Admission Request No. 30.
However, such records may exist and be in the possession of other public agencies 1
involved in wildland fire suppression. The State denies Admission Request No. 30 to the extent that, based on fire fighting experience, the power supply may be shut down l
in the area of wildland fires due to shorting (arcing) of transmission lines resulting i
from particulates in the smoke plume. In addition, wooden utility poles which carry transmission lines are known to have been burned off at the ground by wildfires.
Incident Commanders often request that the power supply to transmission lines in an area affected by wildland fires be shut down to avoid shorting of the lines and for j
firefighter safety where wooden utility poles may be consumed by the fire. To the 22