ML20134H582

Partially Deleted Transcript of 960328 Predecisional Enforcement Conference Between NRC & DA Fields in Atlanta, Ga.Pp 1-86

ML20134H582
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Issue date:	03/28/1996
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In The Matter Of:

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• i INRE:

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! PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE j.

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l PROCEEDINGS BEFORE LUIS REYES, CHAIRMAN March 28,1996 i

1 i

. BROWNREPORTING, INC.

l ATLANIA, ATHENS, AUGUSTA, CARROLLTON ROME 1740 PEACHTREE STREET l_

ATLANTA', GA USA 30309 l (40.4) 8768979 or (800) 637-0293 l

l OriginalFile 0328fielasc,86Pages Min-U4cript@ File ID:2514637847 i

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j Word Index included with this Min-U-Scripte l information in this record was deleted j in accordance with thy freedom of information i Act, exemptions 6

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PDR FOIA CALANDR96-357 PDR

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.PRRIOCISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE March 28,1996 Page1 , Page 2 (1) UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION [1] APPEARANCES REGM 11 p) On behet of the Nuclear Regulatory Cornmission:

( S 13 pi C. Repp

\.a C. Evans, Esq.

l4} L Clark (s) IN RE: PREDECISIONAL )

ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE. ) K Lamse le) CRYSTAL RNER. ) 15] B. Uryc p} S. Richards

- [a] '

ls] J. Ueberman M L Reyes, Chairman

[1q PROCEEDINGS BEFORE p) A. Obson

[1t} LUIS REYES, CHAIRMAN g,j ,

[trl Onbehef of Mr.Fleids:

p. M 3:15 p.rn.

R. M ,Esq gi4j (14 D. Dickey, Esq.

[1s] 29th Floor (1 11 101 Martsue Street Aioo Presers; lij Atlarna. Georgia [tal .

(19 R. Weise (L'l [tsj D. Fleide til I2UI 6 pil

[14] -

Kath A. WIkerno'n, CCR-B-1381. RPR l'N p2: II paj . (1 71 BROWN REPORTING. INC. (1 1 p4] 1100 SPRING STREET. SUITE 750 (14 .

ATLANTA. GEORGIA 30309 -

pq ps) (404)876 8979 p1]

pri p81  !

p41 psi Page3 is1 MR.REYES: Good afternoon.My name is

. p) Luis Reyes, and I'm the Deputy Regional p) Administrator for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission,

14) the Region II office.This morning we're conducting Iq .a prede'cisional enforcement conference be' tween the tal NRC and Mr. David Fields which is closed to public p) observation.In discussion with Mr. Fields and his inj counselor, who were also present during the previous rei predecisional enforcement conference, they have gig heard the introductory remarks from the NRC, they til; understand them,and at their request we will (12j dispense with the introductions.

risj Is that agreeable to you?

ti4j MR.HENDRIX:Yes.And it would be gig agreeable as wellif you wish to include them in the -

tig record by stipulation in the exact manner in which stri they appeared in Mr. Weiss's deposition.

tig MR. REYES: We'll do that.

[14 With those preliminary matters taken care pq of,I'll turn the meeting over to Mr.Al Gibson,the pij Director of the Division of Reactor Safety, to pas present to Mr. Fields the proposed apparent pai violations.

p41 ' MR. GIBSON: Good afternoon, Mr. Fields, ps MR.REYES: Do you want us to also BROWN REPORTING, INC. (404) 876-8979 Misa-U-Scripte (3) Page 1 - Page 3

PROCEEDINGS BEFORE LUIS REYES, CHAIRMAN IN RV.:

Maich 28,1996 PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE Page4 Page 6 pj dispense with those? pj I was the senior person,the senior licensed reactor pi MR. HENDRIX: Yes.We have received a p) operator on site to make that decision. I felt real pi written copy. p) good about it. It felt like the next logical thing p) MR. GlBSON: The proposed violations are p) to do to resolve this safety concern,because my la the same as you heard in the conference we just had tsi operator, Mark van Sicklen, came to me and said, isi with RobWeiss,the only exception being,if my im Dave,I want to do this,we've been shut down by m understanding is correct,that you were the shift m everybody, engineering won't listen to us,we didn't ist supervisor the evening of September 4th and 5th. Is) have any luck with the NRC management that is pi MR. FIELDS: That is correct. pi pursuing this. H,e said,Just let me do this and if

, .pq MR. GIBSON:And as such, Mr. Weiss. pq the curve is right then it's right and I'll drop it i vil reported to you. 99 forever.

4 na MR. FIELDS: That is correct. na That was my job,to respond to what-I

pai MR. GIBSON

Having said that,it appears us) knew that an operator was really concerned about pq to us that a violation of 10 CFR 50.59 and sq it. As far as what we did, we intentionally did not psi procedures OP-402,OP 103B and AR403 occurred,and psi violate any procedure, not Al 500, not OP402 and pq we would welcome any comments you might have in pq not the annunciator response procedure 403.The On response to that. Da 50.59,lastJuly,right before we did this,we l paj MR. FIELDS: Well,I appreciate the paj weren't being charged with violating 50.59.Since pn opportunity to be here.It's been quite a long time pq that time there is a definition on the street,a new pq since September 4th and September 5th,1994.We pq interpretation,but at the time in 1994 I honestly 99 submitted a lot of data, but I think this is my su didn't think that we were doing anything even

'22: opportunity to speak to the people who are actually pa appmaching a test or experiment that needed a 50.59

[c; going to make the decision, so I appreciate you ps) review. I thought we were procedurally covered by pq hearing my concerns.1 think you are taking this pq exactly what we were going to do, and that procedure pst issue very seriously,and I think it's the most asi had received the safety evaluation.

Page 5 Page 7

in significant thing that's ever happened in my ni The e-mails that came out inJuly p) professionallife. pl basically told us,This is your OP and these are the i p) 1.ct me give you a little bit of my p) sections of the OP you need to use'to maintain s  ;.p) background. I've been in this industry 23 years.I pj hydrogen where management wants it maintained.We

, ist was an officer in the United States Nuclear Navy. is were using what management told us to use to operate im I've worked for Florida Power for the last 15 pi to the curve,and we just expanded it out to once m years.I'm not new to this.I wasa't a new shift . m and for all let's draw the real plant response and is) supervisor. I had been a shift supervisor for eight p) Curve 8 will be either right or wrong.

p1 years.The decisions that I made I take full pi Did I answer that question?That was a

' odi responsibility for. pq long answer, py I was the shift supervisor.My people on MR.GIBSON: And we appreciate the long pa came to me with a safety concern that had been na answer.We really want to hear your perspective on ps) nagging and nagging them for a long time,and they pal things, pq rsked me,Can we do this evolution.They had donc

~

pq When did your crew members first approach tje their homework and they said,look,all we want to pq you with the idea of a test? _

ps) do is use OP-402,this section where we add hydrogen sq MR. FIELDS:I think on the night of pn and this section where we drain down.We looked at on September 4th Rob and Mark came to me and said, Hey, pq the annunciator response procedure.That's why we psi Dave,we want to try sonnething, and that's when we na said,Well,we don't know if the curve is going to pq started talking about using OP-402.Now,either pq be wrong or right,but if we do go to the pg September 2nd or September 3rd Carl Bergstrom came un unacceptable region we'll want to have somebody pn to me and showed me the September 2nd letter and pa alerted in the ops building to take action. pa said, Dave,I know your crew is really interested in psi At the time I personally felt very psi this, your crew has taken the lead on this,is there pq comfortable with making the decision to proceed on. pq anything you want to do or respond to this because pq I felt very comfortable that that was my authority. psi the issue is going to be closed out. 3 Page 4 - Page 7 (4) Min-U-Scripte BROWN REPORTING, INC. (404) 876-8979

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, PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE March 28,1996 P;ge 8 Page 10 p1 MR. GIBSON: Did Cart personally deliver vi MR. FIELDS: He's like the plant ,

p pi that letter to you? pl manager's representative on the back shift, and even 1

., p) MR. FIELDS: Yes, he did. p) during the day shift he is the guy that p) MR. GIBSON: Were you working day shift? p) coordinates.If a piece of equipment failed, he tsj MR. FIELDS: I was working midnight shift p) would coordinate with the shops,with operations to n on September 4th and 5th, so what was I working - p) get the clearance on it.He served as an adviser.

gn MR. GIBSON: On September 2.nd?- m He showed up at the turnover meetings.He was a p1 MR. FIELDS: Did I hold over in the p) person that I didn't refer to for decisions

'pj morning and he talked to me? I don't remember. pi regardmg a reactor,but he was certainly a person pq ' MR.GIBSON:Wp were trymg to understand . Om that I respected, and in hindsight I wish I had pq what Cari conveyed to y6u when he gave you the on talked to him about it.

pa letter but, frankly,we had concluded that he must na In a letter I wrote to Mr. Ebneter in May us) not have given you the letter because he was working pai of '95 I think I fairly clearly laid out my pq day shift and you were working graveyard shift. 04) failings.I don't want to attack anyone,but I pq That's what I was trying to understand. ,pq don't think Mr. Beard ever sent you a leuer f

psi MR. FIELDS: Did I hold over until noon usi describing where he could have done things a little

- pn some day? I don't know. On better.

pq MR. GIBSON: But you clearly remember him pai MR. LIEBERMAN: Could we go back to the pq giving you the letter? ,

og September 2nd letter? I want to make sure I pq MR. FIELDS:I certainly do.1 don't pq understand the dialogue that occurred.Do you have on remember it now.In my mind I don't remember the pu that in front of you?

pa meeting right now,but a lot of the stuff that I've pa MR. FIELDS: Yes, sir,I have it.

ps) written was written ten, twelve months ago, eighteen ps) MR. LIEBERMAN: You related the

. p4) months ago,however long ago it was.1 wrote it 94) conversation that you heard that engineering was psi down then so mymemory was much fresher then. psi going to close this out,I believe you said,without Page 9 Page 11 p) MR. REYES: Mr.Hendrix,if you want to pj changing the curve.I'm wondering if you read the p) take a break or caucus,we can do that at any time. pj last two sentences of the first paragraph that p) I'm just saying if you find anything that you need p) said: During this analysis make-up tank vi to stop the proceeding for to talk to your clients, pj overpressure per Curve No.8 will be reevaluated. j k m) that's acceptable. p) This action to be completed by September 30,1994.-  !

' p1 MR. FIELDS:I have a note here that the p1 Did you discuss those two sentences?

In 4th was the first night of mids and we were on swing in MR. FIELDS: We did not.The overriding j

[q shift.You work swing shiffand then you get one pj message that the letter sent was it's accurate, 1 pj day off and then you go midshift.Maybe the last pi reasonably conservative. Basically the issue of pq night of the swing shift was September 2nd.I'm not om whether we were going to operate to that pressure or on sure. On not was closed out.

pa MR. GlBSON: But at this point you do na Now,the way I read this last couple of paj recall being handed - os) sentences, and this is only me looking, my opinion,

04) MR. FIELDS: Very much so. p4) but to me it tells me that engineering had read the pq MR. GIBSON: And do you recall what pq calculation. Engineering realized that the EWST pq message was conveyed as it was handed to you? poi swapover point for that calculation was incorrect. -

on MR. FIELDS: Basically,that the issue un It was based upon an RV sump level, not a BWST pq was going to be closed out,that engineering had ps) level,and they needed to do some additional study pq determined that the curve was accurate and pq on this issue.But isther than do the additional em reasonably conservative. pq study they just said,Well,the curve is probably py MR.GIBSON: So did you discuss your pn okay, operate where Mr. Beard wants you to and wc*ll na plans to conduct this test with the shift manager? pa pick up on this BWST swapover later on.

ps) MR. FIELDS: No, sir,I did not. psi . That's only an opinion,but it was pq MR.GIBSON: Whu is the role of the

• pq brought to me that the issue was going to be closed psi shift manager? psi out and ifI didn't do something that Mr. Beard and BROWN REPOMING', INC. (404) 876-8979 IKin U-scripte (5) Page 8 - Page 11

i PROF'RRDINGS CEPORE LUIS REYES, CHAIRMAN IN RE:

. March 28,1996 PREDECISIONAL ENPORCEMENT CONFERENCE

, Page 12 Page 14

pj Greg Hatnon would expect the operators to operate to pl Halnon was aware of it,because Greg's memo aslie'd

pl the curve. f pi forinput,and he said he didn't get any.

{

pj. MR. LIEBERMAN: When it was brought to p) Well,I checked with Mask van Sicklen

, p1 your attention did you discuss the letter or did you p) when that memo came out,and I said, Mark,you're

, tsi just have the conversation concerning the letter? Ist working directly with Greg on this,aren't you,and

. pj MR. FIELDS: I think we had the letter in p1 he said,Yes,I talk with Greg about every day on p1 hand. p) this issue,I should have written something up, but '

I pi MR.LIEBERMAN: Did you read it and rej I didn't.

$ ' pj discuss the letter with him? But Greg Halnon felt a lot more in l pq MR. FIELDS:Yes. , .

pq comfortable talking directly to Mark van Sicklen

' p ij MR.GiBSON: We asked Mr. Weiss some pij than he did to me.I don't know if he was

! N1 questions earlier, and we'd like to hear your na intimidated by me because I was so much older, but

} psi personal views regarding other options that might sq he felt very comfortable talking to Mark,and Mark

! ~ pq have been available to you to resolve this matter. pq talked to him on an almost daily basis when he was 5

psj As we stated earlier,we understand and appreciate pq available, saying, Greg,what's going on with this pq that you and members of your crew had taken a number pq make-up tank. Girg was very much aware ofit. Carl on of steps to try to bring the matter to resolution pn Bergstrom was aware ofit.Chenustry was aware of poi and that you were frustrated with the lack of ps) it. Pat Beard was aware of it. Pat Beard was pq progress that had been made.

• poi driving the show.He was making the decisions that pm But it appears to us that other things pq we will operate high on that curve and we will get pu might have been done.For example,you might have pti 25 cc's perkg.

pa taken it to a higher level of management,and that ga I know everybody in Florida Power was I

pal would seem to be an appropriate question for you as ps aware,and we made some contact.1 was in the pq the shift supervisor.Could you comment on that? pq control room and Mark had talked to Mr. Cooper on a i pq MR. FIELDS: Well,I was aware that it ,

psj couple of occasions, and after the last occasion Page 13 Page 15

, pj was - the issue was raised to the highest level. A p1 Mark came over to my desk and said,I don't think -

pi lot ofit was based on hearsay,the highest FPC pj the NRC's going to help us on this,and he suggested pi level. Mr. Beard was demanding that operators pj writing an allegation.

go operate on that curve to maintain 25 cc's per kg.I pi MR. DICKEY: If I could follow up on that pi wasn't at the morning management meetings when Mr. pi point,and I don't know how familiar the committee p) Beard dispatched Greg Halnon to go there and get pi is with this memo that is Exhibit 8 to the in those operators straightened o'u t.or talked about p) Department of Labor ~ complaint.It was signed by Mr.

p1 firing Mark van Sicklen. I wasn't out 'there but I pj Pat Hmtnan on 1015-92.

pi heard about them. pi MR.GIBSON: We've read that.

pq Mr.Becker was my assistant shift pq MR. DICKEY: They identify the exact pu supervisor one night,and he got on Mark.He said. Du concern that Mr.Ficids's shift had with regard to pa Mark,you're not maintaining the make-up tank na the HPI pump, so this memo is clear that management psi pressure where Mr. Beard wants it,and Mark said,I ps) was very well aware of this situation two years pq don't like operating there. And Gary just kind of pq prior to this shift's concerns.They did not know

- tig blew up,and he said.I'll call Mr. Beard at home og this at this time,of course.This information was _

pg right now.And he raced over to the phone and og not revealed until we did our Department oflabor pn dialed it,and Mr. Beard wasn't there. On investigation and found this memo.But I don't

- paj To me it was very clear that Gary Becker pet think Florida Power turned that memo over to the pe) and Pat Beard were very interested in operating high nel NRC. N pq on that curve.I don't like blow-ups like that in pq MR. FIELDS: So Mark talked to Mr.

pg the control room, so I got Gary straightened out, su Cooper, and he said to do an allegation form. I pa And I said, Gary,I'll take care of this.And I roi didn't recommend that Mark make an allegation.That pai told Mark, Mark,just put it where you want it to psi seems totally inappropriate.1 really felt that we

_ pq be, we'll work this out some other way.But I knew pq could handle this within the company.I was -I'm psi Mr. Beard was aware ofit and I knew that Greg psj part of management and I felt like I was - he was Page 12f Page 15 (6) Mla-U-Scripte BROWN REPORTING, INC. (404) 876-8979

GJW: vC1%-tbmMtJZAm mow mueo, usuusuvam -

PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE March 22,1996 ,

i P:ge 16 PJge 18 01 funneling his concerns to me and I was trying to get p) to talk about a time when he stood behind Bruce

.A gj them resolved.He was doing a lot ofindependent p) Williams's shift and ordered him to raise pressure.

! pi things, and ifI could have it do over again in the pi It was being directed,it was clear, that that was p) letter I wrote in May - I let him down when I p) what senior rnanagement wanted donc,and that blow up isj didn't take a more active sole in it,because I'm - (s) in the control room with Gary Becker and Mark van a probably a better speaker and a better writer than ej Sicklen,that's not hearsay,that happened.He m he is and I have more access to senior management m definitely came across with,This is what Mr. Beard is) thn he did. p) wants,and Gary Becker is a lot closer to Pat Beard pj But he took the issue up and he was pi than I am.

pq running with it and he was doing a real good job of pq MR. LIEBERMAN: But after that event no pn it,and he was keeping me icformed of where he was on one spoke to you directly that suggested you pa going. And it finally just pretty much collapsed to na overruling Mr.Becker'in'!ctting Mr. Van Sicklen psi where the next logical step was that the issue was psi operate where he was comfortable?

p4; going to be closed out, so what can we do to show v4j MR. FIELDS: No, he didn't. Gary didn't psi that the curve isn't correct.That's how we came to psj come back and say,I've talked to Mr. Beard and he poi the conclusion of well,we've got a procedure,it's os) wants to talk to you tomorrow morning.That didn't on not a test we'll take this data,and if we do cross nn happen.But the September 2nd memo,when it came pel the curve we'll have somebody available to vent the psi out,when Carl brought it to me,it was clear that pq make-up tank. pq this issue's going to be closed out and the pq Other things I could have done? In am operators will be expected to operate to the curve.

an hindsight I'm sure there's a lot of things.1 could 99 MR. RICHARDS: What's Mr.Becker's job pa have talked to the senior resident,but I didn't pa normally? l pai think to do that. pai MR. FIELDS: He was the former manager of l p41 MR. LIEBERMAN:What was your concern in p4) engineering,and then they decided that he needed ps) filing an allegation? psi some operations experience so they sent him to SRO Page 17 Page 19 pj MR. FIELDS: Once an employee does that pj class.He got his license and they decided he gi he's gone.That's the way I felt. And I felt that pi needed more operations experience, so they made him

. pi the organization was designed to solicit pi the peer evaluator, and as a peer evaluator with an j p) information.The organization should work.When an 93 active license he had to maintain so many days per i isj operator with as many years experience as Mark van tsj quarter on shift. He just would periodically stand is Sicklen raises what he considers is a safety pi a watch as assistant shift supervisor,but he was a m concern, somebody ought to listen to him'and I m pretty senior guy. He didn't come up through the p) did.J listened to him. . .pi ranks to become assistant shift supervisor,he came

'pi MR. RICHARDS: Do you have any previous pj down from manager of engineering to assume that

, .pq experiences with people who raised an allegation to pq position every once in a while.

Du the NRC and then they were terminated? 09 MR. GlBSON: Did you ever consider using pa. MR. FIELDS: Most of the time people are va the employee concerns program?

pai terminated and all of a sudden they come up with psj MR. FIELDS: No,and I've made my 041 some allegations after the fact.1 don't know of v4) allegation concerning the employee concerns psi any active employee that's ever raised an psi program.It does not work.It did not work in the ps) allegation.I just don't know of any, poi two instances that I used it. -

pn MR. LIEBERMAN: Mr. Fields,were you ever pn MR. GIBSON: I understand you've written

. ps; criticized for not having your crew have more psi us about that',but could you just tell us about why pq hydrogen in the system? pq you didn't have confidence in that program?

pq MR. FIELDS: Not so much me personally as pq MR. FIELDS: Well,I think the first pn I knew Mark was being criticized via hearsay.I'm pq cmployee concern that I had dealt with manipulating pa not sure why they didn't come to me,but it was pa the clock on a one hour tech spec shutdown.They pal Mark's issue,and if Pat's going to fire Mark van p3) knew they had the wrong breakers installed or the p41 Sicklen he should have come to me.I think when the p4) breaker heaters or whatever on two 'of the HPI ,

psi other operators come up here next week they're going psi pumps.They were going to manipulate the clock,and BROWN REPORTING, INC. (404) 876-8979 Min-U-Scripte (7) Page 16 - Page 19

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PROcumnINGS BEFORE LUIS REYES, CHAIRMAN $IN RE:

March 28',1996 PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE

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Page 20

' Page 22 In they said,We'll determine that this one's out of in 14th,1992. ,

pj service and give ourselves an hour per tech spec and MR. RICHARDS: Did you pursue the issue

(~

pi pi then we're waiting on engineering to tell us if the pl through,I guess, your immediate supervisor, Mr.

sq other one's out of service, they're still doing pj Halnon?

is their analysis,and ifit is, we'll take it out of tq MR. FIELDS:Ihad talked to him on piservice. pj various occasions basically to say,Are you and Mark m - I went to the shift manager and I said, m getting together on this make-up tank thing,and he pj Now,let me get real clear on this.We're wardng pi was very clear to me that Mark was hounding him pi on engineering to finish evaluating the second set pi about every day on the issue.Then I would see Greg

, pq ofideakers because,if they're both out of service, og come in the control room and talk to Mark for ten o'r

[nj that's a one hour shut down.We can't manipulate og fifteen minutes at a time.~ ~~~~ ~ ~

pa the clock. If they're both out of service I have to na MR.RICHARDS: Why at the point of

. psi start shutting d'own.He said, Dave,we already know ps) September the 4th did you decide,I guess, that Mr.

pq they're boWout of service, we'll get one fixed and ng Halnon was no longer going to pursue the issue,that pq then we'll get the other one fixed.And I go, Man, psj he'wasn't a viable way to go?.

l pq this isn't right. ns; MR. FIELDS: Well, Carl Bergstrom works un I was so mad after that and so upset that on for Greg Halnon. Carl Bergstrom brought me the psi I wrote my employee concern.It was a new program pq engineering letter and I assumed he was spmHng for "

pq on the street. I said til try this program.These pq Greg.I think the words he used was,Is there pq go directly to Mr. Beard.I said management pq anything you want to do or respond because the issue su manipulated the clock,I handed it in, and I didn't sq is going to be closed out and unless you do pa get an answer back for over two months, and it was na something operations is going to haye to just buck!c

, psi written by Mr. Hernandez, who used to be an HP pal under and operate to the curve.It was basically pq tech.To me, when the senio'r SRO on site tells pq the end of the line as far as Greg Halnon's psj management that' you're manipulating the tech spec psi involvement and Carl Bergstrom's involvement. It Page 21 - Page 23

01 clock,you're violating the law,and'the seniorvice p) was, Here's the issue, Dave,1f you want to do a

pi president who is in charge of that program should pi something, go ahead,if you don't it's going to be pi have called me pi closed out.

. pj MR. GlBSON: When did that occur, Dave? pj MR. RICHARDS: But you didn't think it tsj MR. FIELDS: Til have to give you an tsj was appropriate at that time to have a face to-face 4

mi Inswer on that.It must have been two years ago.- tq meeting about the issue with Mr.Halnon?

4 m .

MR. FIELDS: In hindsight it wouli! have i ut I consider that very significant, m to t $ccin a great idea.I thought Carl was speaking fo'r pi and that put me on notice that Mr. Beard doesn't p3 Greg.I felt that Greg was well aware of our sq reMiy care what a shift supervisor-I mean,in

• nq concern and had been briefed thoroug'lly by Mark.

09 that particular instance Mr. Beard didn't care that na MR. RICH ARDS: If I'm not mistaken, you na a shiff supervisor would write such a thing.To me na were in the engineering department at one time.

pai that was very significant. nsi MR. FIELDS:Yes.

pq MR.GIBSON: And you had a second bad sq MR. RICHARDS: Did you participate in any psi experience with this program? na of the meetings with engineering prior to September _

pq MR. FIELDS:Yes,not at dramatic but og the 4th to discuss the issue?

pn similar. na MR. FIELDS:I don't think so.I pq MR.LIEBERMAN: Before you go to the pq remember just that the curve was put in the p ; second one, did anyone from operations management og procedure in 1993,and after the startups for refuel pq speak to you about the first concern you just pq nine in June orJuly of '94 did it become a really ,

pu discussed? pu prettyhotissue, pa MR. FIELDS: No.I put myself as being ga MR. HENDRIX: By the way,why was the psj anonymous.I did talk to the STA about it,and she ps) curve put in the procedure in 1993?

pq said,This really stinks.That's allI remember of pq MR. FIELDS: Well, the curve was 'put in psj what she said, and I guess it happened on September psj to allow adding increased hydrogen to the make-up Page 20 - Page 23 (8) Min-U-Scripte BROWN REPORTING,INC. (404) 876 8979

+ ,

U#LLW utJmaZmuru m e a.uas su a a.s, umaswaan PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE . March 28,1996 Page 24 POge 26 notank.That's this letter from Pat Hinman,a summary in MR. FIELDS: No, they were make-up system A gj of' actions required to implernent the new make-up ta engineering.And Pat wrote the letter,this letter i p) tank hydrogen cover gas limits such that 25 cc's per p1 of '92, and he'd been the make-up system engineer pl kg hydrogen concentration can be maintsined in the pj for quite a while.He was a good engineer.The

,. te RCS. Im night that we ran SP430 he came out in the middle 4 a MR. RICHARDS: Gedng back to the pi of the night to help us out.

I m discussions wcVe been hearing about,it sounds like m I want to get acmss that the midnight j pj Mark van Sicklen is the person who attended these pi shift is the same as day shift is the same as swing l pl meetings and you didn't participate so you wouldn't p! shift.It makes no difference to us.We work it

! 'pq have direct knowledge of the discussions. ng year in, year out.It's just another working day.

l ~ ng MR. FIELDS: Not of all of them.I would ng But Pat came.out that night and we worked with him

02) see him come into the contml room,and he and Mark na to sah wliy didn't these pumps perform like they 3

psi would sit down and go over stuff for an hour.I did ne should have.Maybe they were air bound or maybe it na have some direct communications with engineering pq was hydrogen or maybe a valve was stuck.So there l ne during the outage when we ran SP430,which was the na were a lot of problems that were brought out that l pq full flow test,and we nearly broke the equipment. pq night that I remember I was directly involved with i on That was such a dramatic surveillance procedure,if on with Mark in getting his accuracy about Curve 8 in

{ pq it hadn't been for Mark van Sicklen and Rob standing nel that problem report.

! pq right behind him we would have destroyed two make-up pq MR. DICKEY:Just for the record,he's pq pumps.But their quick action to in une case trip pq referred to attachment three which eventually pu the pump and in the second case to reduce flow pu plotted the data at that point.

! m immediately saved those pumps. pa MR. URYC: That's attachment three to the l pal During that night we spent all night ps) DOL complaint?

{ pq getting with engineering to try to find out why it pq MR. DICKEY: Yes, sir.

j pst didn't work correctly and what do we think about pq MS. CLARK: When you were considering 4

{, , Page 25 Pege 27 l- _ go this.That was also the night that Mark had plotted gy doing these evolutions on the 4th and 5th did you l pi the data that showed that the draindown of the gj expect to see it go into the unacceptable region?

j pi make-up tank didn't look -it looked like it was p) MR. FIELDS: Based upon the SP430 data l

. pj going to cross Curve 8. Maybe that was an pj we suspected that it would.We didn't know it 1-j ga unauthorized test,you know. He just did it on his gg would. Mark came to me and said,Ifit follows it I al own'.He plotted some data,but he didn't think so. pi l'Il drop this forever; Dave,just let me run this

! m He thought he was just providing good information, m little evolution using OP-103 and if the curve is l pj and he put that in, and I hdiped him get it in there ' tsj correct I'll drop it forever.But based ori SP430 i p1 to ensure that that piece ofinformation got into pi it looked to me like the night of the 4th - you

! og that problem report,94-149. pq know,that was the night that we didn't know.The on MR. RICHARDS: Back to the discussions na night of the 5th we fully knew that it wasn't going -

ori with engineering. Do you know from your discussions na to because it hadn't on the night of the 4th.

S v3) with Mark or anybody else what level of engineering 03) MR. LANDIS: You fully knew what on the i pq management ha,d been directly involved in the og 5th?

pq discussions with van Sicklen to try and address the no MR. FIELDS: That the alarm would come in not issue? This is from May until September the 4th. net and he would draw the actual system response and it -

pn MR. FIELDS:I know that he talked to on would be different from Curve 8 and be in the

! pq Terry Austin,I know that he talked to Phil Salzman nej unacceptable region.

nel and I know he talked to Pat Hinman. ng MS. CLARK:In light of that expectation, 4

pq MR. RICHARDS: What was the first name? pq how did you conclude that the evolution was j pn MR. FIELDS: Terry Austin. I don't know pu permitted by your opetating procedures?

pa if he's a supervisor or not,but br/s oric of the pa' MR. FIELDS: Can I use the board just j paj best engineers Florida Power has. pq once? It's just an operating curve,86 inches down j pq MR. RICHARDS: The other two were not pq to 55 inches.Or is it 55 inches and 86 above?

pq supervisors. psi MR. RICHARDS: The level goes across the BROWN REPORTING, INC. (404) 876-8979 Min-U-Scripte (9) Page 24 - Page 27

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March 28,1996 PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE i

Page 28 P.s e 30  ;

gg botto'm.. pj the procedure was written, assuming that the curw ,

gj MR. FIELDS: 55 laches,86 inches.This p) was correct, and that once you got on the cm e and p) will be about 30 po.mds,and this is whatever p) you manipulated the level up and down it would just ,

8: pressure it was. I dc n't know what that was.The p) go up and down that curve, or if you're over here it I tsj OP section that we . eferred to in doing the ,sj would just go up and down following the curve.But 1 pj procedure,and we wenid be operating down hete some p) we were asked to do something by Carl Bergstrom.He l l m place,said to pressurize up to the maximum allowed m said,Do you want to do anything or respond to thir l

! p) by Curve 8,and we did that.On September 4th you pl because the issue's going to be closed out. '

p) could see that we went above the curve,and it ]

p Management had'come to me and asked me to do '

ja looked like,Oh,these guys violated the curve.But pq something, and I felt very' comfortable that my I l pq in reality,we were using the control board on pmcedures' allowed me to do that.lf anything told *

pa instrument. it's not as accurate as the computer na me you can't do that we wouldn't have done it.

pa point,I don't know which one is the most 0:1 MR. RICHARDS:let me back up.I l pci important. pq understand your perception of management's view r .n

, MS. CLARK:The strip sheet or striF pq the issue on September the 4th.Ict's back up to

! psi pai chart? pel this question I just asked. Does it make sense that pn MR. FIELDS: Yes, ma'am.In our mind we on the curve would not apply to th pocedure to drain pu didn't have this curve.In looking at the plot th. pet down the tank ifit applies to the procedure that og Rob provided later on,it looks like we went above ne has you put hydrogenin?

, poi it,but at the time we went to Curve 8 using the pq MR. FIELDS: I don't think I was looking

{ pq strip chart information.That's what we did.So we 99 for a loophole, but I think I was looking to mak'c

! tu didn't go across it.We pressurized up to it, refer pa sure that what I was doing was okay.It wasn't some ps) to Curve 8,and we did that. pa kind of a sneaky evolution.The whole purpose was pq The other section of the procedure says pq to show that the curve was correct or not correct.

psj bleed to an appropriate tank from 86 inches to 55 psj MR. RICHARDS:I understand.But back Page 29 Page 31 i tu inches,and we did that,and we stopped at 55 pj up.You have your engineering background.Does it pi inches.Then ivhen we added water the alarm cleared, p3 make sense that the curve would apply to the pi and we didn't have to vent the tank because the pj hydrogen addition but not to the part of the l

.pl alarm clearedyy just addmg water to it.In niy p) procedure that you use to drain down the tank?

pj mind at the time we used one section to pressurize gq MR. FIELDS: In hindsight I'd have to say i p) up to Curve 8,another section to drain down,and

, pi yes, but certainly at the time that I, performed it I L m then we essentially took - we were standing by to m did not feelbound by that curve.The logical l 'p) take the appropriate annunciator response procedure p1 resolution to this safety concern that had been pi required, action required.As soon as we added pi going on for months was to either show that the

~

,. pq water it .went over to the acceptable side and then pq curve was. correct or show that the curve was not pq we didn't need to. pq correct,and we felt like we had pre-approved na . MR. RICHARDS: Is it your view that Curve paj procedures to do exactly that. it wasn't like we psi 8 did not apply to the procedure that you used to psi were sneaking to do this.We put it in a problem pq draw the tank down? ' pq report.

pq MR. FIELDS: No.We made sure that it pq MR. RICHARDS: I understand that. Ixt me _

psi was a limit in precaution.Ifit had been a limit vej make sure I understand what you first said.You

- on in precaution at the beginnig of the procedure like on said yes.Yes,it would make sense for the curve to na 86 to 55 inches,we would hvc never performed the nel apply to the procedure to drain down, or is that a pq procedure.If we had known it was a design basis pq yet,it doesn't make sense,it doesn't have to pq curve we would never have done the procedure, pq apply?

pq MR. RICHARDS: K nowing that the curve - pq MR. FIELDS: The only answer you're going I

pa apphed as stated ir. the procedure to add hydrogen, na to want to hear is yes,I knew that it should be.

psi does it make sense that the curve wocdn't apply to. psi MR. RICHARDS:I'm not asking you what p.) the procedure to drain the tank down? pq you knew or what you thought.You've told us what psj MR. FIELDS: No.it's my opinion that psi you were thinking.I'm asking you if it makes sense Page 28, Page 31 (10) D11m-U-Scsipte BROWN REPORTING, INC. (404) 876-8979

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'PREDECISIONA1 ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE Page 32 Pige 34 i to that that curve wculd not apply to the procedure to sj way you comply or the degree to which you comply i

p p) drain down the taak. p) with the adnunistrative limits as opposed to design

! p) MR. FIELDS:In hindsight it makes pi basis limits?

^

pl sense. At the thae I didn't get the connection. pj MR. FIELDS: I don't actively not comply isi MR. GIBSON: Dave,let me try a question te with anything. I think I was one of the most im or two along the same lines in an effort to pi conservative shift supervisors they had at Crystal -

l m understand your perception.The curve represented m River Unit 3.We have to operate to procedures,we in what you understood to be engineering's calculation p1 have to do this,we have to do that,we have a j pi of how the level and pressure would behave following pi climbing policy,and no matter what the requirement j pqaLOCA ,

. pq was I did my very best to do it, and I think I did pq MR. FIELDS:It was a system response pq it bette'r than most of the shift supervisors out pa curve. Da there. j l

psj MR.GlBSON: And if the curve had been psi in this one particular instance we felt j pq correct and you vere operating the plant above the pq that there was a safety concern here.We felt that I us) curve, then yc er understanding would have been there psi engineering had not provided a really good answer. I psi would ha:re been a potential for damaging the make-up us) We felt that management had turned tt 3e issue over to pn pumps due to hydrogen entrainment in the make-up . on us.We felt that we had brought it to the attention pq pumps and if the curve had been correct and plant pq of the NRC and they hadn't exactly jumped on our l poi conditions were to the left or above the curve,then pel side.We looked upon it as the next logical step, pq there would have been a potential for damaging the pq Well,W can we legally do,and legally- maybe 1 pq pumps.ls that your understanding? pq was splitting hairs to use this procedure,this pa MR FIELDS:I knew that there was a pa section of the procedure and then use that section,  ;

psi tie-in to that, but I knew that it was a plant ps) where this section of the procedure pressurized up j pq response curve.We plotted plant response,and it pq where the curve applied and this section where the ps; showed that the curve was not correct.And really, psi curve didn't apply.Maybe I did.1 don't know what

, Page 33 Page 35 p1 the real significant information was on September p) my exact thoughts were.

m the 5th after we threw out what we considered to be p) MR. GIBSON: But you would not have donc pi bad data,this end point right here.This level p) it if you had known it was a design basis curve?

vi difference or this pressure difference converted to pj MR. FIELDS: Absolutely not.Mr. Beard pi a pressure' going back to the calculation showed that [q wouldn't have demanded that we operate had he known

to the margin of conservancy or whatever in the p1 it was a design basis. Engineering wouldn't have l m calculation wasn't enough.It wasn't'until the m come up with that letter of accurate and reasonably '

p1 rnorning of September the*5th that we knew that this p1 conservative if they knew it.

l l pi was a bigger safety concern than we ever thought it 14 MR. LIEBERMAN: Can I clarify one point?

pq was,that in fact you could have damaged your pq In response to Mr.Gibson's question concerning the.

l l pu make-up pumps. pq distinction between a design basis curve and an l pa MR.GIBSON: There's something you said a na administrative limit, the impression I'm getting is I osi few minutes ago,and you've said the same thing in pai after you added hydrogen up to the point of the pq letters to us that I don't fully understand, and pq curve,and that's the administrative limit,after sq that is if you had known that the curve was a safety pq that point that curve was really not applicable.

Os) limit you definitely would have followed it, you ps) MR. FIELDS: Yes.

on would not have operated in the unacceptable region pn MR.LIEBERMAN:Now,if the pmcedure pq if you t:.d known. Osj that's a design curve to add hydrogen to the system psi MR. FIELDS: I wouldn't have operated any psi and you'd stopped there and said nothing about it i pq place close to it. pq afterwards such that there was still no limit pq MR. GlBSON: And I think that what you pu thereafter,would you have done this?

pij have said is you believe the curve to be an . pa MR. FIELDS:I don't thak so. It's hard i psi administrative limit, not a design basis curve. ps) to say what I would have or wouldn't have done.The pq MR. FIELDS: Absolutely. pq words design basis,that's one of those red flags ps) MR. GlBSON: Is there a difference in the ps) that you' don't go any place near that.

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PROCEEDINGS BEFORE LUIS REYES, CHAIRMAN IN RE:

Alarch 2W1996 PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE Page 36 Page 38 pj MR. LANDIS: David,in the same vein, how pi I do not think that I went across the m do you know whether a curve is or is not a design pj envelope established by my management.I think I pi basis that you use for operating the plant,that's pi did exactly what my management would have expected ,

pi in the ops?

pj me to have donc,and I'm really disappointed -

gg MR. FIELDS:I don't know of any design 18 they've just, rather than take the heat for not n basis curves in the OP.Now,the salt margin curve isi clearly establishing what needed to be established, m that we use to operate ' our EPs and APs,that one m they're just saying,Oh, we're just aghast that this .

n might be a design baus curve,I don't know.But as pl guy would do such a thing. And then some guy that pi far as I know,there's no design basis curves in gg works in a convenience store three months later

.pa OP-IO3. , pq malls them the data and says,Oh,by the way,all

.pq MR. LANDIS: How about in any other un your operators operated on the wrong side of the prj procedures? pa curve.

. paj MR. FIELDS:I can't say that I do. pai MR. RICHARDS: Again,getting back to pq They're not flagged as "this is a design basis." pq exiting the envelope, how far past that curve would sq We've gotten a lot better.The new OP-103 8 is a pq you have gone?

pa good curve.It gives the operator all the pq MR. FIELDS: We felt that by having one on information he needs to operate safely and pn opetutor dedicated to the balance of the plant and pq correctly.It didn't exist when we had it. pq one operator performing the evolution and one psi MR. RICHARDS: You've got a large number og operator plotting the data,the computer data and '

pq of years of nuclear experience and had time in the pq strip chart data on to a copy of the curve that we

~

pu nuclear navy On'c of the principles that I think pg were following plant response,and if anything j l ' pa anybody with that experience would agree to is that ga unexpected happened or took a jump we didn't  !

j pal 'h t' e way these plants are operated is that an psi understand I would have immediately terminated it.

' pq operating envelope is def' m ed and the operators stay pq But we knew exactly where we were, and it was psi within that envelope. pq following down,and all it was was showing that the 1

Page 37 Page 39 pi MR. FIELDS:I wouldn't disagree with vi plant response as defined by Curve 8 was incorrect.

m that, but I would want - A And we were gathering data to show that Curve 8 was.

pj MR. RICHARDS: You can see where I'm pi incorrect and it was what I thought would be enough l .pl heading.You operated inside the envelope during 81 to keep the issue open. It was what I thought Cari l to the draindown event,and it appears to us that the gg Bergstrom asked me to do. I pi plant exited that defined envelope.Whether it was pi MR. RICHARDS: Again,I think 't hat's

m right or wrong at the time,that was the envelope m getting back to the' motivation

n available to the shift.The evolution took you pi MR. FIELDS:I never went outside the

. pi outside the envelope and the crew did not terminate tg envelope that I felt in my mind was governing this pq the event when it was clear you were exiting the pq evolution that I ran, and I don't think I went ny envelope.We're trymg to understand why with your nu outside the envelope established by my management or na training and background you saw that to be l' na Mr. Beard l 'osi acceptable. poi MR. RICHARDS: I take that comment to bc

pq MR. FIELDS: Well,the nuclear navy is pq that there is no cavelope to the left,that if the

pq very rigid.You're an engineering officer of the

. pq curve would have tracked far to the left - -

pq watch,and if it doesn't say do this,do this, do pq MR. FIELDS: h would never have gone on this,you don't do it.The only thing you do is on that far.I would have stopped the test.

l pq whit's written in that reactor plant manual.That's sq MR. DICKEY: I think people have tried to l pq it. Civilian nuclear power is a lot more complex, a pq draw on that Curve 8 as a hard and fast envelope.

eq lot more systems,a lot less rigid,and the envelope pq MR. RICHARDS: The first question I asked pu is huge.The envelope gives me the discretion to pg .was what was the envelope that you were going to i pa make decisions.It takes some credit that I pa operate within.The plant went across that curve.

! par understand what I'm doing and my crew understands poi MR. FIELDS: Yes.

[ pq what'they're doing and we understand how the systems pq MR. RICHARDS: Where would you have l

pq opetute, pq terminated the event? How far were you willing to Page 36 - Page 39 (12) Min-U-Scripte BROWN REPORTING, INC. (404) 876-8979

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'PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE March 28,1996 Page to Pige 42 pj go? Where was the envelope drawn? p) issue that had been ongoing,that was going to be p) MR. FIELDS:If we started taking data pi closed out,and we felt like we had procedural p) points further to the left than we expected, but it pl guidance to do exactly what we did.

p) started right on the curve and it just kind of p1 I can easily agree with you a year and a tsi peeled off and as expected drew a plant response tsj halflater that to do that would have been wrong and toj kind of like Curve 8 but showed that Curve 8 was is) I should have gone to this guy and we should.have m non-conservative.Ifit had started taking data m written a special test procedure.1 should have a points further I would have said,Stop,we don't gaj done a lot of things differently,but at the time I p) know what we're doing, either drain pressure or add pi felt very comfortable that what I was doing was pq water or whatever to cure the alarm. Rob Weiss poj exactly correct and exactly within my authority and pq would have done it, and the board operator would 09 exactly what I had seen of how other people operated pa have done it on his own. Da the plant.

03) MR. LIEBERMAN: Based on your judgment. ps) MR.LIEBERMAN:looking back in pq MR. FIELDS: Yes, sir. pq hindsight,if you were the operations manager would psi MR. HENDRIX: Well,1 might add that the psi you want your shift supervisors to decide for pe) Al 500 specifically states that when the adequacy of pe; themselves how far they should depart from the on existing procedures is questioned shift supervision on curve?

ps) will make the determmation,that shift supervision, pai MR. FIELDS:I would hope that as an pas David Fields, will make the determination as to ps) operations manager I would trust my people to do pq which procedural requirements are applicable. And poi what was the right thing to do,that if they were pq he made the determination that,Well,I can go up pq faced with a situation where they didn't think pa and I can come down. pa something was correct that they were allowed to use paj MR. LIEBERMAN:What procedure are you p3) some discretion, and that discretion is given to me pu reading from? pq in Al-500.

ps) MR.HENDRIX: Al-500. psi MR.LIEBERMAN:Who tasked you to do Page 41 Page 43 p) MR. LIEBERMAN: What's the title of that 01 this?

pi secrion. p1 MR. FIELDS: Carl Bergstrom. He didn't p) MR. HENDRIX: It's Al 500. pi say,1 want you to take over OP-402 and do this pi MR. LANDIS: David, while we're looking p) section and this section and this section.He said, (s) at that - tsj This issue is going to be closed out is there n MR. HENDRIX: What I was saying is it re) anything you want to do in response to that because j m' doesn't say STA,it doesn't say shift supervisor, m the issue is going to be closed out.It didn't seem rei That's part of the envelope. p1 like anything bizarre,it didn't seem like anything p) MR. RICHARDS: The question for Mr. pl unusual or experimental. It just seemed like an pq Fields is: Do you read that procedure to say that pq easy, procedurally approved way to show what we had ny you'can interpret the procedure in a conservative on been having concern over.

pa manner or in a less conservative or more liberal va The enforcement policy talks about that I pai manner? There's two ways to look at that.You can 03) knew or should have known.To me the inspection pq say,This procedure as written is not conservative pq report 95-22 talks about the inadequacies of

! ps; and for that reason I'm not going to operate on that psi procedures and no training, and everything was left l

0s) curve,I'm going to stay down because I don't think vej up to the shift supervisor.Well,it was left up to l pa this procedure's accomplishing what it's set out to pn me,and that was the decision I made,and it wasn't I

nel do and the way it should have done it.Or does that usi made in the middle of the night.In my opinion,it p91 statement say,1 have the latitude to expand the noj was made as an honest effort to work within the pq defined envelope,for whatever motivation? pq Florida Power management system to resolve an pq MR. FIELDS: To me it was obvious at the pq issue. And that was all there was to it.We na time.On the night of September 4th I reviewed my pa reported our findings in the p'oblem report, and pai procedures and I felt very confident that they were paj Crystal River operates a lot safer now than it did pq adequate to do exactly what we did.We had been pq then.

! psi tasked with challenging that curve.it was a safety psi MS. CLARK: Was it your understanding i

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- March 28,'1996 PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE Page 44 Page46 p; that you would have been required to get approval to 14 as that.It was not recognized as a hard boundary, gj perform an unusual evolution? pi that going on the other side of that required a pi ' teR. FIELDS: We looked at that on the ,

p1 50.59.

81 night we did it.One of the operators suggested, ej MR. FIELDS: If I pressurized the tank, n ,Well, why' don't we drain down lower to 55 inches, te knowingly pressurized the tank above that curve and, si end Rob said,No,that would be a test.We'd have p) I dsove the pressure above that curve in that m to write a special procedure if we did that, m section of the procedure for adding hydrogen,then I n MS. CLARK: So your understanding of a pj violated the procedure.

pi test would be what? - pj MR.LANDIS: And if you were going to pq MR. FIELDS:Ifit's not covered by. -

nq stand in the middle of that and pressurize hydrogen vil approved procedures,then it would require a ny up above Curve 8,would that have required a 50.59?

pa procedure to be written, either a procedure change na MR. FIELDS:I couldn't do that.When psi or a special task procedure to be written. nsi you add hydrogen, refer to Curve 8,and ifI wanted pg. MS. CLARK: And ifit was covered by ny to exceed it I'd say,Well,I need to write a l pq procedures but was an unusual evolution,would that nsi procedure change,and that would require a 50.59 l pq require you to get approvai? pq review.

pn MR. FIELDS: I don't know. I'm icarning na MR.LANDIS: And what I just described pai an awful lot about tests long after they happened. pel would have gotten you to the exact same point.That pq MS. EVANS: Would you consider what you ne could have gotten you to the same point that the .

pq did an unusual evolution,though? pq draindown would have.The draindown takes you down pq MR. DICKEY: Are you talking about pu to some point above Curve 8.lfI had donc pa draining the tank? pa something different, pressurized,using hydrogen, l

pq MR. FIELDS: Inspection report number pq just pressurized up to that same point above Curve J pq 95-22 says this was done 600 and some times during a pq 8,you're saying I would have needed a 50.59.In

! pq five month period. pq both cases I ended up at the same point.

Page 45 Page47 gy MR V4NDIS: Let's say you continued p) MR. FIELDS:I hear what you're saying gi drainicig, not an unu ual evolution.What tells you pi and I know what you want me to respond,but the

! pi that crossing that boundary of 55 means that that is pi curve was presented as a system response.A lot of aq now a test and requires - pj operators had a concern with the accuracy of that tg MR. FIELDS: It's outside the bounds of is curve.My management came to rne and asked me to do n procedure. Rob used the word test that night.1 pi something; and we procedurally used our procedures m don't know why he chose that,but it's outside the m to show that it was not the correct plant response. )

pi bounds of the procedure,and I can't violate the pj MR.GiBSON: Dave,we don't want you to l

. pi procedures. pj respond in any particular way.We just want to hear L pq MR.LANDIS:And an evaluation would have nq what your thoughts were that evening.But we keep

! pq been required at less than 55 doing a normal n'y asking the same question,When was the limit I pa evolution of draining.What told you that 55 was na wouldn't have crossed.

! pa that boundary? na MR. DICKEY:I just want to follow up on pq MR. FIELDS: lt was a built in precautioni nq the requirement for a 50.59.1!you raise pressure

, . pq of the procedure.Thou shalt maintain the snake-up ng above the level,was that question presented to -

pq tank between 86 and 55 inches.And if you look at nel Florida Power when it performed a number of these on all the people who violated it,a hundred percent of na procedures with operations,Greg Halnon and other pai all the operators that violated Curve 8, all of them psj people on the floor,when they raised level

pq maintained between 86 and 55 inches, pq intentionally above Curve 8 and then added pressure l pq MR. LANDIS: So there is a recognition pq to squeeze the bubble? Now,they went above and

[ pq that 55 and 86 is a hard boundary and requires a pq nobody thought to do a 50.59 there,and that's 3 l _'pa 50.59 to require going outside the bounds? pa management directing them to do that.Then they l j pq MR. FIELDS:Which would require a pq write thesc~c-rnails and send them out to the other ]

pq procedure change which would require a 50.59. pq opetutors telling thern how to do it, and they act )

l pq MR. LANDIS: Curve 8 was not recognized pq like it wasn't a big concern to run a little bit Page 44 - Page 47 (14) Min-U-Scripts BROWN REPORTING, INC. (404) 876-8979

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PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE March 23,1996 Page 48 Page 50 !

19 over Curve 8. p) whatever title you want to put on it? How did it r si . There was no indication anywhere before p) develop that people came to view this curve as an  !

ni that there was a major concern in these operators' pi administrative curve?

p; minds on September 4th and 5th that if you crossed a p) MR. FIELDS: Well,it was a new curve.

In little bit over Curve 8 you took the plant out of te it was a change to the procedure.The sliding toi the envelope.There was no indication of that. m alarm,the variable alarm was input as a m This is an openting curve.it was not a hard and m modification to the plant.I don't remember,but Is3 fast redline curve. Is) there was probably training when people went down pi MR. RICHARDS: We have the correspondence in for requal training and the operators were told,Oh, og from Florida Power & Light that's a public record pq yes,OP-103 has been changed and OP 103B has been vil that'I'm sure you have also that has stated og added to now add a variable lirpit to the make-up pa something to that effect.It's a public record. Da tank,and the reason is so we can increase' hydrogen

psi MR. DICKEY

What is that, sir? nsi concentration.I guess that was the kind of l pq MR. RICHARDS: I think the LER says that pq training that we probably had.1 don't remember.

l ps) this was an administative limit or curve,whatever sq MR. RICHARDS: Previous to that the limit

! pm term they used. pq war,what,15 pounds?

.pn MR. DICKEY: Was there a procedure in pn MR. FIELDS: 12 or 15 pounds.I don't

um effect on September 4th and 5th that identified it og remember.

l pq to those operators that that was an administrative og MR. RiCHARDS: Was that considered a hard ,

pq limit? I think the question you asked was what was pq limit?

pq the envelope that Mr. Fields felt comfortable in pq MR. FIELDS:I can tell you that there

pa operating the' plant at that night. He knew that pa have been many an operator that has left the l pai that envelope was close,but he had no idea that's a ps; regulator open and lifted the relief valve at a

! pq redline envelope,that you're totally outside of the pq hundred pounds in that tank.This has been ten l pq plant when you cross that line. psi years ago,just sloppy openting.They weren't Page 49 Page 51 pj There's usually a ten or fifteen degree p) design basis violations back then.Our requirements p) of margin between an operating curve and a design p) keep getting tighter and tighter as the years go l

pi basis curve, so if you normally in your mind said pi by.We keep getting smarter and smarter.

pj that's where you are and if you cross over the curve pj MR.RICHARDS: Do you recollect any i l k te by three percent or so,you think oh,I'm okay,l'm Iq tmining where they specifically discussed the si watching my dials,I know where we're reacting,we pj curve, how it was generated, how it was represented, pi pushed tlic envelope,and we pushed the envelope for pi howit should be used by operators?

' pl what we understood was a* good reason,but we didn't , pi MR. FIELDS: No.1 think what I '

n have a hard envelope that we intentionally took it 1g described to you was probably the kind of training pq outside of. ,

pq we got,but I can't swear to it,the exact taining.

pn MR. LIEBERMAN: I realize you're not the ny .MR.LIEBERMAN:Ixt rne switch the pa client here.I heard before that it wasn't sa subject.Just to clarify one point on September 4th psi perceived there was an operating limit after the psi versus September 5th,in your view did you take the pq hydrogen was added.Now you're saying that there pq same precautions on bo'th the 4th and the 5th?

. pq was an operating limit but it just wasn't a redline pq MR. FIELDS: I would have to say yes,but ps) limit. og qualified.By the second night we were a little bit -

)

on MR. DICKEY: Ask Mr. Fields. On smarter because we had read the engineering

j. .pq MR. RICHARDS: We pursued that already. Og calculation and we had a little bit better feel for

! 0g Ixt me ask one more follow-up question.What e a the significance of the curve.1 remember it talked

! pq taining was provided to the crews on this curve pq about a 1.7 foot margin if you had an HPI actuation, i pn when it came into being? pq a failure of one train or one section line to one of l

pa MR. FIELDS: None.The procedure came . pa your make-up pumps.  ;

i ps) out with the curve in it. paj MR. LIEBERMAN: And you were giving the i pq MR. RICHARDS: So how were the crews to pq same guidance to the auxiliary operator on both pq understand whether it was an administrative limit or psi occasions?

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PROCEEDINGS BEFORE LUIS REYES, CHAIRMAN IN RE4 March 28, i996 PREDECESIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE Page 52 Page 54 pi MR. FIELDS: The first night,I believe, pl action of 94-267 and accuntely reported by ER ,

m and this is just recollection in talking to people. m 94409.Then I say:Please carefully consider my pl I believe we called the board operator and said pl comments for inclusion in ER 94-009.

p) wc*ll be adding hydrogen to the make-up tank, make, p1 And a purposefully sent a copy to Pat 1 to yourscif available in case it needs to be tsj Beard, Bruce Hickle and Greg Halnon.I wasn't going pi available.The second nightJim Atkinson was the f

p) to be a part of misinformation to the NRC.I was l m auxiliary operator.,We called him and had him dress m not going to limit the discussion of one violation i n out,and he stayed near the phone and had his - pi in that make-up tank,one time we went across the pi trainee dress out actually.That was about the only pi curve,because I know that in the design basis

.pq difference,ifI remember. . pq determination twings which Rob attended and Mr.

l pu . MR. LIEBERMAN: Going back to the ER,I on Beard stated tlaat,Wdl,to have operited on th'e -

na know you had some questions concerning the ER,and va curve or even near the curve was outside design l psj I believe you wrote a memo on December 6th usi basis,let's not report ah these other events, '

pq concerning some of your concerns with the ER.I v41 !ct's just report that from tinne to time the plant pq was wondering why in describing the event in the ER~ ps) had been outside the design basis due to errors in psi you didn't insist that they discuss September 4th in ps) the curve.That was how Mr. Beard decided to report pn the ER. On all of the times that we were outs'ide design basis.  !

pai MR. FIELDS:I wrote this letter not usi . September 5th showed what we did,and poi because I was a part of writing the ER.No one had poi from time to time the plant had been operated pq ever come to me. Engineering apparently went pq outside design basis.In my mind,Septernber 4th was pu ballistic after we submitted our September 7th pu insignificant,and it just became even more sa problem report,and we were just kind of out ofit. pa insignificant because it was just being lumped in i paj They went to Bruce Hickle and convinced him we had ps) with all the other times the plant was outside the pq violated a desigt basis and we were kind of totally p41 design basis.

pq out ofit.ButJim Friehauf,just based on previous ps! And I guess I need to ask a question.Am i Page 53 Page 55 pi discussions with him,1 said, Hey,if you're ever pj I being charged with a violation of any NRC m writing an ER that has anything to do with my a regulatiord An't read anything about lying to p1 shift, how about sending me a copy of it. He mailed pl the NRC.T knee I iot filtd from FPC because Mr.

.pl me a copy ofit,and he mailed me a copy of Draft p1 Beard was not pc'sonally made aware of September ist 1. is) 4th, but what's the NRC's position on this?

n I could realize where this thing was p- MR. LIEBERMAN:We just want to m going,from not too serious to a group of operators g, ucderstand what ha'ppened.We're curious as to why p) had purposely done something wrong, and I felt that p) m .iidn't know about September 4th,and we've made pl I needed to write a letter to him.I'll read it pj no decisions as to whether that should be a focus of )

poi slowly.On the second page I say:1 realize that pq our actions or rot.

on the company is in a sensitive position due to ' on MR. FIELDS: So it's still undecided?

pa possible NRC enforcement action.However,we should na MR. LIEBERMAN: Completely undecided.

pai not present misinformation.There are two issues psi MR. DICKEY: Why did Ol investigate that, pq which should not be confused.First, control room p.; whether or not there was misinformation made to Mr. I pq personnel performed an evolution in which we p:, Ficids or Mr. Weiss? _ l pal unknowingly violated a design basis curve without psi MR.GIBSON: To my knowledge they did pa the proper procedure review.This evolution is on not.

ps) being investigated thoroughly. Secondly,the entire pq MR. DICKEY: But they did ask questions psi make-up tank overpressure issue needs to be poi of them.

pq addressed.The performance of the evolution pm, MR. FIELDS: I felt like I was thoroughly

, pu provided proof that Curve 8 of OP-103B was pq asked that question about September 4th.I provided l pa normonservative. Operator safety concerns pa the letter to Mr. McNulty.'

l pai previously documented in PR 94-149 were shown to be psi MR. HENDRIX: We have addressed that ad pq valid when actual plant response was plotted.These pq nauseam.It's a red herring.I think our position ps) other issues'need to be pursued in the corrective pst is well known on that.

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• PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE March 28,1996 Pzgo 56 Page 58 1 tu - MR. FIELDS: Exhibit No.46.We ' pj l'd like to spend some time talking about

, y pi discussed it at length with 01.1 don't mind pi what that shift of operators did on the week ofJuly

(( pi talking about it.lf we want to continue talking pi 20th.The e-mail messages from DaveJones and Greg ,

pj about it,I'd like to bring out a few other things p) Halnon talk about this.This was during the day is about September 4th and other things. I was just te shift.Halnon,Bergstmm,DaveJones,the shift to curious ifI'm being charged. pi supervisor,the whole shift for a week spent going m MR. REYES: We need to caucus for a m up, going down, going up, going down validating the p) minute. ,

p) pmcedure,OP-402 for maintaining pressure,the same pi (Discussion ensued off the record.) pi pmcedust steps we used.

pq 'MR. LIEBERMAN; You're not being charged. . pq As we have known after the fact,they o n at thls time on that issue. All we want to og pushe,d'it up into alarm and they drove it up for the' pa understand is what happened.I have another na whole time being outside the unacceptable region of l ps; question.In the May 23rd letter to Mr. Ebneter psj the curve.Everyone knew how much trouble my shift I v41 you're describing what happened and you're 041 was in, how much trouble I was in, and none of those l psi describing the Septernber 2nd leuer.I'lllet you os) people came forward and said,You know,we operated ]

ps) get the May 23rd letter out.On the second page of pq back inJuly all week long,it was in alarm the on that letter,the first full paragraph,it begins: on whole time.The plant manager walks into the om Our response was to perform the drawdown evolution og ' control board periodically, the shift manager is in poi oh September 5. pq there a lot.A lot of people were aware that that pq I was wondering why, since this appears pq alarm was in. And that wasn't required by plant pu to be in chronological order,you go from September pu conditions,to every day up and down, up and down.

pa 2nd describing your responses to September 5th and pa It was not required by plant conditions,and they l psi you left out September 4th. mal took data, l p41 MR. FIELDS:I'm not sure.When I wrote p41 Bruce Williams hand-plotted it, and he l ps) this letter I clearly had broken ranks with my psi took this data on the make-up tank and gave it to Page 57 Page 59 pj company.1 realized that the significance of me vi Carl Bergstrom and said, Here, your curve is no p) going outside of my company and writing a letter pi good,you could put it at a thousand pounds,that's i p1 directly to Mr.Ebneter was the end of my career.1 p1 fine with me, your curve is no good. It's pi just felt like the company had twisted the facts and 81 significant that - not that these other people are

! ts) provided so much misinformation to the NRC,my [s lying.I'm not trying to get another shift of l n career was over, and I felt like,Well,let me just p) operators in trouble,but a whole bunch of people m try to get my side of the story across,let me tell . m were aware tha,t the plant was operated in alarm for

+

p1 Mr.Ebneter what I felt m/ responsibility was on mi a whole week back inJuly. Data had been taken and pi that night, and I'll even tell Mr. Ebneter what I pi given to Carl Bergstrom.That's Carl's writing on pq thought I did wrong on the night of September 5th- pq the bottom of the curve.

09 But I guess I was still of the mindset on MR. DICKEY: For the record,that's na that the significant event was September 5th.The va Exhibit 48,a Department,of Labor exhibit.

l psi significant event of September 5th is we provided usi MR. FIELDS: Carl Bergstrom had that, but p41 good data to show that the plant was not being 04) he didn't bring it to me on the night of September psi operated safely,and we reported that.The pq 4th.

pq significance of September 4th wasn't very high in my pel MR. HENDRIX: Ironically, had these guys -

na mind because it was flawed data.We couldn't use it on had that data thenselves they could have issued a om to prove or disprove anything,and it certainly was pm problem report a st based on that to continue to i

poi diminished when Mr. Beard recognized that,Well,if pq pursue their iss' c.

, pq you operated on or near the curve you're outside the pq MR. FIELDS: Rob could have got the pq design basis. pq readout data from that date and made up a pretty na It wasn't a numbers game.We knew we na curve just like he provided for September 5th.I'm

psj operated outside of design basis from time to time psi not saying that's exactly what we would have done, p41 for over a year, so the significance of September p4; but we would have been given the opportunity if Carl ps; 4th was tremendously diminished. psj had given it to us.

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, Page 60 Page 62 MR.GIBSON: Dave,let me pursue

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in 01 and I went to Greg Halnon and I said,I don't want pl something for a moment. pi to look it up or get anybody else in troubic,but I pi MR.REYES: Dave,have you seen our pi understand some data was taken aroundJuly 20th.He pi inspection report of February 5th of '96? p said, Dave, crase that date from your mind.That sq MR. HENDRlX: What's the number ofit? Is told me management wanted to keep the make-up tank pi . MR. DICKEY: 95-22. pi issue just confined to the LER that was written, and m MR. FIELDS: Yes. m they didn't want to expand it out. j

_;i MR. REYES: There's a description of all pi The important lesson I thought was if you '

pi the times that thefcurve was either approached or pl were on the curve you were outside the design basis, ti g exceeded in the sumnieriDo you think our report is ' pq and I don't think that came out very clearly in the

' pq accurate? pq LER,but it did,you know,and the curve got -

na MR. FIELDS: We provided you with the na changed, so I felt good about that.But I guess I

. psj data. psi feel like I got fired over the September 4th issue, pq MR. REYES I know,but there are some 041 and additional NRC sanctions possibly connected to pq opinions here.We went to the site based on that sq September 4th, and I really don't feel guilty about pq and made several conclusions.I'm looking for the pg it. Apparently the company has written you this pn table.Do you agree with the conclusions in the nn " points of light" letter. All that's based on is pq report?. og our DOL submittal.

og MR. FIELDS:I do.But see,you only pq The company has nothing.The company pq limited it to greater than half a pound for greater sq hasn't provided you with anything.Everything nu than 30 minutes.In fact,if you had narrowed your pq germane or dealing with this make-up tank issue from ga scope down a little bit there would have been a lot sa safety to the details to anything has come from us, pai more evolutions the week ofJuly 20th. psj from Rob and me and my operators. And they hired pq MR. REYES: That's what I was trying to pq some lawyers to go through there and say,Well,he pq pursue.1 was trying to pursue that particular psi could have written it there and he could have Page 61 Page 63

, ni information. pl written it there or there,and he mailed it to you pi MR. HENDRIX: Moreover, you only looked pl so we couldn't see it.The DOL can't reveal that pi at a three month period.If you had gone back p1 letter to me now because they mailed it to you.

y months before - p) They're playing a legal game here.Is that

.tg MR. REYES:I understand that.But our sq correct?

n conclusions were based on,the band that we pi MR. DICKEY: Those points oflight a selected. And you made a point,a,different. m weren't there on August 23rd,1995.They came there ,

h perspective on information that wotild be different si after they received the Department oflabor I

. pi because of what we selected,and I wanted to explore te complaint and the exhibits.

pq that. pq MR. GIBSON: I'd like to get back'to the pq MR. FIELDS: I don't disagree with how - pq July manipulations for a moment and to what causes pa you selected your criteria.I'm just trymg to make va you to believe that they were conducted for the ps) the point that a lot of managers,a lot of psi purpose of validating the procedure,I believe you pq operators, operations management,possibly the NRC pq said.

pq reddent inspectors were in the control room during pq MR. FIELDS: The e-mail messages. _

pg day shift that week when the plant was being pg MR.GiBSON: There were three e-mail na manipulated up and down. Data was being taken. na messages,I believe,that provided direction to pq MR. GIBSON: Dave,how do you know the psi operators to maintain hydrogen pressure in the na purpose of the manipulations inJuly? pg make-up tank as high as permitted by the curve,and pq . , MR. FIELDS: The e-mail messages. And I

, pq you believe that in developing that position pu didn't even figure it out until after I'd been - pq management directed another shift or maybe more than pa fired.The e-mail messages and their dates just pa one other shift to manipulate pressure and level in psi happened to correspond with what Rob found out was pq the tanks?

pq the week's worth of work inJuly.I knew before I pq MR. FIELDS: Yes, sir.

psi was fired that some data had been takenJuly 20th, pq MR. GIBSON: And is that speculative on Page 60, Page 63 (18) Min-U-Scripts BROWN REPORTING, INC. (404) 876-8979

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OMia .

• PREDECISIONAL ENPORCEMENT CONFERENCE March 28,1996 Pige 64 PIge 66 in your part,just based upon the dates of the memos? pj performing tests with no procedure whatsoever,and I

,e pi MR. FIELDS: Well,it's sort of pj made that an allegation too in August of 1995.Have pj speculative But let's read this one on 7 25-94 pl Greg Halnon explain what he was doing with a diesel pj from Greg Halnon.It says it's to me but it's to pj generator and that set of jumpers.He had no l ty all the shift supervisors:This message is from tsi procedure whatsoever,and now he's telling Mr.

pj wont DaveJones did with Gary.1.ct's all try and p) Beard,Oh,we don't condone this and we don't m maintain hydrogen concentration in the acceptable m condone that. He was just basically telling me,You p) region. Here is a method to correct if it is (q just got pulled over.

pj necessary.Then they go on to talk about squeezing tg The other part was I felt I was perfectly og the bubble and stufflike that,and that was what pq bounded by procedure. I' knew of other instances on they did the week ofJuly 20th. On where people weren't u'ing procedures,but I was na ' MR. GlBSON: So the week ofJuly 20th na using the procedures.My interpretation was that I pai they manipulated level for the purposes of ps) was exactly doing what I should be doing per pq developing this squeezing technique? pq approved procedure.

pq MR. FIELDS: That's correct,and they psi MR. HENDRIX: The only reason we even j pg, violated the curve nearly every day they did it and ps) raise this,by the way,is not to make allegations  !

on they took data,and it wasn't required by plant on and all that of other people,but when the company j pq conditions. Hydrogen was already up because they pel suggests that they were shocked, shocked to find out i l pq would bleed down and press up, bleed down and press pq about this September 4th major integrity issue and.

pq up.They violated the defmition of a test.And . pq so on and so forth,it's total garbage.Again, pn just because Greg Halnon and DaveJones and Cari pu their strategy, as a layman and sort of new to all pa Bergstrom said it's okay,they're managers,and pa this,is that management is so unbelievably ,

paj managers cannot authorize violations of NRC policy. ps) concerned about the NRC's perception, and they tried pq They can't do it no more than I can do it.It just pq to figure out in advance what your perception's

! psi seems to me like if everyone thought this September pq going to be rather than putting the cards out and

, Page 65 Page 67 I pj 4th thing was such a big deal somebody would have vi talking about them.

pi come forward and said,You know,we opented for a mi They're very concerned, and they attempt pi long time on the wrong side of that curve. p) in advance to figure out how you will perceive an p) Now,1 didn't know it until after I'd p1 event so that they can then very carefully review it

~

ist been fired, but I don't believe anybody wrote you a te with you in that manner.That's the only reason we pj letter saying, Hey,I operated for up to four hours pi bring all this up,because they cast aspersions on m in alarm one time.it tookJiffy-Store operator p) these men's integrity,which is just totally

+

pi over.here to bring that to your attention'That's

. . .pl uncalled for, pi just the way it happened.The compariy has not been pi And they'do that why?To poison the

, pq very honest.with you,and they're trying.to convince pq well.1 mean,they knew that they were going to say on you that September 4th was this deviant behavior on ny that before we came here today so that maybe you na my part.They made it an integrity issue.My va would have a jaundiced view of anything this man 0s) integrity was just not good enough, didn't meet ps) told you today,so maybe you wouldn't believe him pq their standard,and it's not true. pq because there's an integrity issue,and I think psi They know that they operated on the wrong pq that's very purpose'ul, f slick.It's very slick,and pei side of the curve,and they know that what I did was psi they've got good lawyers,but it misses the big on an expected action by a shift supervisor.That's on picture of discussing things with candor and l

pe) why Greg Halnon told me when he was talking about my p:1 discussing all issues rather than making this sound l pq performance appraisal,which was the worst I'd ever pq like isolated rogue operators who are just off the l pq gotten in my life, he said,You know, Dave,it's pq reservation doing their own thing and they deserve pn just like a line of speeGig traffic and you just pu to be fired We would just reject that l' pa happened to get pulled over. pa emphatically.

i pa; That statement told me, and I knew for a psj What we are concerned about from our i p.g fact -I've seen Greg Halnon run around the control pq scifish issue is you may allow them to validate if pq room with a set of jumpers around his neck ps) you find deliberate misconduct by these gentlemen.

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l PROCEEDINGS BEFORE LUIS REYES, CHAIRMAN IN REr

! March 28,'1996 PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE Page 68 Page 70 l in You will validate that.The reason they're pushing in MR. LIEBERMAN: Could you explain what l pi the 4th in all this is that's their fall-back p) those limits are?

pi position on the DOL complaint.If they lose on this p) MR. FIELDS:I can't violate company pl issue, that's their fall-back position to justify. pi policy, company procedures. I can't do anything to They fired them in retaliation for speaking out (q just on my own,and at the time of September 4th and pi against management. !xt's face it.That's why ej September 5th I felt honestly bounded by the '

m these men are fired. m procedural guidance that I had. AI-500 gave me a p  ;(A recess was taken.) tel little bit ofleeway for making some decisions,but p) MR. REYES: We're back on the record. pi I certainly fell within the envelope that I had as a pq Day'e, we have a couple more questions.1 want to . pq shift supervisor.1 really felt like I was part of l Ifn make sure we get' everything clear before we lose the no management.The concerns were coming up to me and ' )

, na opportunity to talk to you this afternoon. na the pressure was coming down to me and it kind of ps) MR. LANDIS: Dave, you referred to Curve vai stopped at my Icvel,and I felt like,Well,I'll get l i 99 8 as a plant response curve as opposed to it's pq involved with this,I haven't helped Mark out too 1 i

pq called on its title a maximum make.up tank pq msch on this and I can see how frustrated he is.

l

' Ital overpressure curve.What I'm trying to ask is why ps) He came to me and said, Dave,can we do l l on did you considerit a plant response curve, pn this,ifit's accurate I'll keep my mouth shut.1 l

! psi MR. FIELDS:I believe we probably psi looked at the procedures and I made the decision. I pm invented that term because we performed SP-630 and pq Weiss didn't make the decision, Mark van Sicklen, pq we could see plant response to a draindown and poi Christine Smith, Jim Atkinson, they didn't make the 99 hand-plotted the level on the pressure.It was kind pu decision.I made the decision.They shouldn't be pa oflike Curve 8 but it gave us the indication that- ga here other than to provide you folks with j pai Curve 8 was not accurate,but it was clearly plant psi information. And I guess - well, let's leave it at pq response.The plant was responding to a draining of 99 that.

ps the make-up tank,and that was the resulting curve psi l've made this argument before that I'm Page 69 Page 71 l ni that you would get.That's why I referred to it as vi the guy that made the decision, but I thought I made pi a plant response curve,and I think that's pi the right decision, and ifI thought at any time I pi accurate. pi was going to be violating what was expected of me by i

.,91 The company could call it whatever they p) Mr. Beard or Mr.Halnon or what was expected of me ]'

l te want,but in reality it was what the make-up tank ts) by the procedures that bound me on how to operate l . a would do on a lowering level.We thought it looked ist the plant,I wouldn't have done it.I sincerely ,

m like a loss of coolant,where you,have an HPI .

m would n'ot have done it.We'd just try something

tai initiatio'na'nd the level would drain down during a tsj clse and not do that.-

p1 real LOCA with an HPI pump in full flow conditions. pi MR. LIEBERMAN:Thank you.

pq It'would go down'a lot faster.But we just felt ' pq MR. REYES: Do you or your counsel want pu that our evolution would show them that the curve's 09 to make any closing remarks or statements or pa not correct and we'd keep the safety issue open. na information that we didn't pursue?

l pai MR. LIEBERMAN:I guess I have the last psi MR. FIELDS:I've got a couple ofitems l pq question.In your DOL submittal,the complaint of pq I'd like to speak to.The company has done a really l psi February 14th,'%, paragraph 59,I don't know if pq good job of describing me to you.I don't know what ~ _

i psi you have a copy of that with you. pel it is, but I've lost my job over this issue.Before on MR. FIELDS: Yes,I do. na Ilost my job,as I was writing some of these pq MR. LIEBERMAN:It says Fields had a poi letters, I knew my job was on the line, my career pq legal responsibility for the public safety to pursue pq was over,but I felt really concerned,it was an

- pq his concerns with his license as a senior reactor pq important issue,it was things that I felt the NRC pu supervisor and position as a shift supervisor. pu should be concerned about. Safety concerns pa Fields had the necessary data gathered of an issue pa shouldn't be brushed under the rug or dismissed out

_pai of safety concern.My question is are there any pai of hand.

j pq limits on that. pq When people do things that they believe

! psi MR. FIELDS: Absolutely. psi are correct and they present you with information, Page 68. Page 71 (20) Misa-U-Scripte BROWN REPORTING, INC. (404) 876 8979 l

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• PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE March 28,1996 P:ge 72 Prge 74 pi they present the company with information,that is, p3 MR. LIEBERMAN: If the letter is sent or pi that shows that the plant is operating outside gi if the NRC finds you guilty?

'7 -

pj design basis or whatever,I think that's important. pi MR. FIELDS:If the letter is sent and p; But for the company to come back and make p1 the NRC finds me guilty, te disparaging remtrks about me and to pull me off (q MR. LIEBERMAN: Both has to happen?

n shift and to pull him off shift and to totally pi MR. FIELDS: That was what was related to m dissolve my former shift and make misstatements to m me from Mr.Hendrix from Mr. Williams.

pi you,I felt okay, my career's over,I'm going to p1 MR. URYC:You were told that if you sent pi write a letter and tell Mr.Ebneter the way I feel pi the letter and the NRC finds you guilty yo'u will be

'pq about these things. pq fired?.Is that what you were told?

psi in one of these letters,and I forget on MR. FIELDS: That we will not hesitate to .

na which one it was,I was told,1f you send this na fire you.

pai letter wc*rc going to fire you. And I made the par MR. RICHARDS: You were told that by your pq decision, okay,I still feel strongly about this. pq counsel?

pq lilR. RICHARDS: Did someone in company usi MR. FIELDS:Is that correct?

pq management tell you you'd be fired? pq MR. HENDRIX: Yes.

l pn MR. FIELDS: Before I sent the letter to on - MR. FIELDS:I don't think he can tell

( pel - the company had written a letter on May 5th,and nel attorney to attorney information. l j pe) before they sent it Mr. Beard called me into his poi MR. LIEBERMAN: Can you, Mr. Hendrix, j pq office,and he called Rob into his office pq confirmthat?

l pu separately.And he said basically,This is the un MR. HENDRIX: Only with his permission,

! pa letter we're going to send,and it removed me as na and I wouldn't want to do it in such a way as to pal being a shift supervisor or ever even any hope of pal waive any privilege to the entire subject matter.I pq ever being a shift supervisor.It confirmed that in my can go back to the very beginning of my discussion pq the eyes of the companyI had done something so psj with Mr. Williams You have to understand this goes Page 73 Page 75 p) terrible that the company was taking very strong pl back to the joint defense things.

pi action and they wouldn't hesitate to fire me if the p) The company position was that these guys pi NRC gave them the go-ahead, and I said I couldn't pj did bad,they deserve to be sanctioned,and the j pi live with that.1 said I'll write my own letter. pi company wanted to focus everything on these guys and (s) And Mr. Beard told me,he says, Don't do (q offer them the bone that,look, we'll take you off pi that, the NRC will eat you up. And I said,Well,I p) the shift,we'll do this,we'll do this,but at m need.to write it anyway.So I wrote my' letter on m least you'll have your job, at least you'll have tej May 23rd,that's Exhibit 37,and I gave it to Mr. p1 your job, sign here on the joint defense' agreement, j pi Beard.1 gave him an advance copy. pi sign on the dotted line and be good boys and you'll pq MR. REYES: Say that again. pq have your job,with the implicit statement that if on ' MR. FIELDS:I gave Mr. Beard an advance pq you go against the company you're making a bad va copy. Da decision because our approach will save your job, pai . MR. REYES: Before May 23rd? pai and our approach will save your job because we're pq MR. FIELDS: Yes,to review. pq going to 'say that there are mitigating factors and

.pq MR. REYES: Before it was sent to us, to pq technicalissues and so on and so forth,but if you pai the NRC? pai go off the reservation and you pursue it and it's -

en MR. FIELDS: Correct. I said,This is un not accepted by the NRC,you're gone,so you need to pq what I planned to send to the NRC. And from Gerald nel stay on board, stay on the reservation, don't leave,

[-

poj Williams to Mr.Hendrix,it was,Mr. Fields,do not nel because if you do you're gone.

pq send that letter.lf the NRC finds that Mr. Fields pq And so they vigorously objected to our 99 is guilty we won't hesitate to fire Mr. Fields.It pq willingness to discuss allissues that did not go pa was second-hand information,but that's the word pa 'along with this sort of one happy family, we all

pa that came to me,that if you're going to go outside paj have this sort of joint view of the universe.So pq management that far you'll be fired, maybe not on pq when we broke ranks it was understood that okay, not psi the spot,but eventually you will be fired. psi only are you making a mistake strategically BROWN REPORTING, INC. (404) 876-8979 Dtin-U-Scripte (21) Page 72 - Page 75

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PROCEEDINGS BEFORE LUIS REYES, CHAIRMAN IN RE: I March 28,'1996 PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFFJtENCE Page 76 Page 78 pj vis-a vis the NRC because by not going with us and pj of me,that's fine,and I guess the terms of my pi by going off the reservation you're more or less pj getting rid of was the usual separation package.1 pl guaranteeing that the NRC is going to find pi didn't want any action taken against the people who l pi deliberate misconduct,and when they do you're p) reported to me,and if there was any civil penalty

! gg gone. gq involved I wanted the company to pay it.

pi But of course they did it earlier when pi I felt very strongly about the issue.I m they began to hear the allegations we were making. m wanted the NRC to hear my side of the story and not pi They got us gone in advance so that they would be mi some letter that Mr. Beard invented.Mr. Beard ,

pi discredited before they even got here.That's why.. pt presented me and Rob in a very bad light that wasn't i

' pq we never got to our last predecisional enforcement pq true.I guess I feel like it's'okay,I lost my job p a conference. nd what made me so upset is they used' piron this issue,but I don't really want to give up my na an enonymous allegation the night before by probably va integrity over it.I would like to have that back.

pai someone in engineering to not allow us to come up pai I would like for you people to basically 04 here and discuss these issues in advance.The pq vindicate me,to say,This guy may have made some pq company always wants to come first.They wanted to pq nustakes but there was no deliberate or willful psi always come first so they could dump on us. pq anything on hispart,he sincerely thought he was l'pn They didn't want us up here talking about na doing a halfway decent job.I think it's important . )

pq things that they had not disclosed to the NRC,that pq that you have shift supervisors,that you have pq the NRC had not been provided information about. pq managers of operation and everyone interested in poi They didn't want us up here,and they succeeded. pq those sorts of issues.1 think that's important to pq All along it's been, Are you with us or are you pq the whole nuclear industry.But I think when people pa against us,and if you pursue this strategy it's pa like me get fired and get sent down the road and paj wrong and you're going to lose and we're going to pa what happens to my assistant and to the other r pq fire you.That was from day one.That's what the pq operators on the shift,that message is just l pq joint defense discussion was all about. pq unbelievably bad to send to the industry, l-Page 77 Page 79 01 And they tried to intimidate them into ni Everybody at Crystal River 3 knows our pi saying they wouldn't even give them an attorney m situation.They know that Rob works at a pi unless they went along with that strategy.I was pi convenience store.They know all about us. And -

.pl there. I'm not providing testimony,but I'm just - pi they're not going to come forward and say,Well,I gg they've had an opinion from day one that they're tsj operated on the wrong side of the make-up tank, rl going to protect management first,and that's all pi well,I talked to Dave Fields about this.They're m they're concerned about. i m not going to come out of the woodwork now.They l pi MR. LIEBERMAN: I presume, Mr. Hendrix, pi know that they have to stay in line with the si that as an attorney you wouldn't Ict your client say pi company.To deviate from that line, the pq anything that was inaccurate on a material matter. poi conseque'nces are severe.

pq MR. HENDRIX: To my knowledge I would ny Kerry,I know you're familiar with the na not,that's correct. na condenser tube leak that they had about two months l pai MR.LIEBERMAN: And Mr. Fields has ps) ago.They had salt water coming into the condenser l ot described what you told him' - pq and it was going forward and it broke through and i . pq . MR.HENDRIX:Yes, sir. pq they were sending chlorides to the steam _

poi MR. LIEBERMAN: When you said, Mr. pq generators.And the shift supervisor and the shift na Fields,that if they found you guilty, guilty of pa manager were just frozen, unable to make a pq decision.Well,we don't have a procedure to

! pqpa what.

~ MR. FIELDS:I'm not sure.At the sarx pq initiate to initiate.So they did a controlled pq time I told Richard. I said,Just negotiate me ou*. pq shutdown and just kept feeding the salt water into i

un see if you can get sorne sort of a separation 99 the steam generators.

pa package,I can't put up with any more demotions, ma - That's the kind of decision-making you p } it's not good for my family life,just get me out. psi can't tolerate in the industry.You need people to pq Basically the letter was written in draft form pq make a decision and not fear for the consequences, pq saying,If you want to negotiate me out and get rid pq not fear that they made the wrong decision and Page 76 r Page 79 (22) Min-U-Scripte BROWN REPORTING, INC. (404) 876-8979

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' PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE March 28,1996 Page 80 Pige 82 j 19 because they made the wrong decision they're going pj raised as to whether it was reasonable at the time

! m to get fired because ofit.You make split-second pl for these gentlemen to interpret the guidance that pj decisions as a shift supervisor,and they have to be pi they had in the manner that they interpreted it.

81 correct to the best of your knowledge, and after the 81 I think that's an important issue, the si fact you expect people to come out of the woodwork te reasonableness of theirinterpretation of the a and say,You could have done this,you could have pi guidance, such as it was,that they had at the time m done that.That comes with the territory, m under the procedures they were working with at the pi But that tube leak,in my mind that's a p1 time. And I'd like to have about a week or so to m significant event in the history of CR 3 From now m submit an affidavit.1 don't require any testimony pq on the steam generators are compromised.They're pq or anything,just to include that in the record.

pq going to be riursing tube leaks,and one of these pq MR.LIEBERMAN: Can I ask who would bc l pa days there's going to be a' tube leak. And you can na preparing or sdhmitting that affidavit for you?

l l pai probably bring it back to that shutdown two months psj MR. HENDRIX: Well,I have not gotten a l pq ago when a shift manager and shift supervisor pq final commitment so I cannot answer, but when I can pq decided, rather than initiate emergency feed water pq get the commitment I'll give it to you in a week.

ne because they didn't have a procedure to do it,they pq IfI can't, you won't get it.

l vn would just do a controlled shutdown and feed salt on The other thing is I would like to echo pe) water into the steam generators. pej the chilling effect argument.We recognize that  !

pq lt only takes four buttons.You push sq you're concerned about a message that would be sent l pq four buttons and you've got it. Trip the plant, pq if an operator feels like you can do what you want, su Push the buttons and you've isolated the secondary nn what kind of message does that send,so maybe you l pa silo.You've got good water going to your steam ga should come down on these people,versus,Well,if psi generators. But I'm just an outsider. I don't work paj they're frozen and paralyzed they won't be human l pq there.That's just what I hear from people that 99 beings and they won't react,which is the main

! pq still work out there,that some bad decisions were pq reason they're there, i

l , Page 81 Page 83 pj made,and I think that's a chilling effect we see at p) As Dave was saying,I don't believe it's a Crystal River and any other power plant where we m escaped notice out at Crystal River that Rob Weiss pi start hanging operators. p) has been employed at a convenience store and now is vi 1.et's not hang the messenger,let's not pj unemployed. I don't think it's escaped notice as to k to shoot the messenger.lf the guy thought he was tal what effect this has had on these men's lives and p) doing a good job,if he used his pmfessional p) their families. It's a big chilling effect. Again, j m opinions and all his background and he thought his m our people were put in this position, put in this l p1 decision was correct,let' shot do that.Let's not rej position by a host of management failures.They l m shoot the messenger.That's what I'm asking. If m were caught in this position.

l pq you're going to shoot somebody, shoot me, leave him - pq The fact that they had to make these pq alone and leave my other operators alone.1 can 09 kinds of decisions at all, they would never have l pa survive without a job but these other guys can't, na been in that position had management reacted ps; and it wasn't their responsibility to make those ps) properly.So I think that has to be considered, pq decisions.That concludes my statement. pq too,when you step back,particularly when you look pq MR. LIEBERMAN: Would you lawyers like to ne at a possible enforcement action against an vei say anything? pq individual. I mean, that's a big,a big item under -

on MR.HENDRIX:Just one thing I'd like to un your own rules of practice,were they there because pm put in the record is that I did send to Mr. Gibson per of management failures.

l pq today a letter dated March 28th, % and I would pq There's no question in this case that's

!- pq like for that to be considered part of our pq why they were there,which is why there should be un presentation. Also, we had hoped to have a possible su absolutely no enforcement action against thesc

! pil affidavit to include in the record today,but we - pa individuals,because management failures is what I pai don't have it,and I'd like to have permission to psi caused the situation to exist on September the 5th.

pq have about a week to submit an additional affidavit pq The actions he took were caused by the lack of pq on some of the technicalissues that have been psi procedtiral guidance and the ambiguities as to where BROWN REPORTING, INC. (404) 876-8979 - Min-U-scripes (23) Page 80 - Page 83

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March 28,1996 PREDECISIONAL ENFORCEMENT CONFERENCE Page 84 Page86 I p1 that envelope was at that time and whether he did Ul pi have the discretion or didn't have the discretion. "

p1 And what was the training? What were pj CERTIFICATE w they supposed to do with it? All that was caused by (s) - '

is) management, and they were caught in this situation. pi STATE OF GEORGIA:

is They could have done things differently,maybe they m COUNTY OF FULTON:

m should have done things differently,but what they ec taken a statedin lei did at the time was reasonable. And they weren't pq the caption,and reduced to rygwiiiing under l pi just off the reservation,they had safety in mind, vil my direction,and that the foregoing pages 1

,na and as a result there's no title'on that card

• pa through 85 represent a true, complete, vil today. I hope that y'all will consider that when - psi and correct transcript of said proceedings. ,

. 04) This,the 8th day of April 1996.

pal you make your final decision.That's allI have. g ,,

L psj MR. DICKEY:The only point I wanted to pe; l ' v41 add with regard to mitigation is that the source of on Keith A.Wilkerson, CCR-B-1381 r

! v5) a lot of this information came fmm these men and My commission expires on the i nel that they fully wanted to cooperate with the NRC all nel day of May,1999. ,

j pn along.By Dave Fields writing this May 23rd letter l poi he went out on a limb.When they were terminated py .

L pq they knew there were a lot of additional areas to R21 -

[ pq look that Florida Power never told you to look,and R81 l .pn they knew it all along,and there was serious motive "

, pa for Florida Power not providing that information, l ps) but there's no motive here.It's just an area of l p41 mitigation to consider how they wanted to cooperate  ;

psi with the NRC all along and how they cared about  !

l l . Page 85 l p; their positions and they cared about t.'teir

, si responsibilities to the nuclear industry and nuclear l 91 safety, si MR. REYES: Before I close the Ysi proceedings,I want to mention. Mr. Fields, after we

! si close today,if,you want to talk in private to the j

. m NRC on this or other matters,we're svallable.

' p1 With that.I'm going to termir&te the

! pi rnecting today.Thank you.

pq - . (Proceedings concluded at 4

45 p.m.)  !

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