ML19305A524
| ML19305A524 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 05/05/1979 |
| From: | Zeiter D METROPOLITAN EDISON CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 7908300075 | |
| Download: ML19305A524 (83) | |
Text
i I,
j UNITED STATES OF AMERICA I
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION I
In the Matter of:
2!
IE TMI INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW 3:
of Mr. David E. Zeiter Radiation Chemist Technician, 41 Senior I
S' Gi 7l l
8!
Trailer #203 91 NRC Investigation Site TMI Nuclear Power Plant
.1 01 Middletown, Pennsylvania i
11l May 5, 1979 12 (0 ate or Interview) 131 June 21, 1979 (Date Transcript. Typed) 14!
140 and 141 IS}
(Tape Number (s))
1 61 17' 18!
19i
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20 QD 21i
~
NRC PERSONNEL:
22 Mr. John R. Sinclair 23 Mr. Gregory P. Yuhas g
g 24; 2Sj nr.7 707 w
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i SINCLAIR:
The following interview is Deing conducted of Mr. David E.
[i.
Zeiter.
Mr. Zeiter is a radiation chemist technician, senior, at Three Mile Island Nuclear Power facility.
Present time is 7:21 a.m. Eastern 3l 4l Oaylight Time.
Today's date is May 5th, 1979.
The place of the interview is trailer 203 located immediately outside the south gate to the Three Mile 5
Island Site.
Individuals present for the interview will be interviewer et Mr. Gregory P. Yuhas, Radiation Specialist, Region 1, U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
My name is John R. Sinclair.
I am an investigator with the Office of Inspector and Auditor, U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
91 Prior to the interview being recorded, Mr. Zeiter was provided with a copy 10j t
of a document explaining his rights concerning information to be obtained 11:
I regarding the incident at Three Mile Island.
In addition, Mr. Zeiter was 12f
(
apprised of the purpose of the investigation, its scope and the authority 131 by which Congress authorizes the U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission to 19 conduct the investigation.
On the second page of the advisement document, 15!
~
Mr. Zeiter has answered three questions.
The questions and Mr. Zeiter's 16i replies will now be recorded as part of the interview.
Mr. Zeiter, as 17i question 1, do you understand the above?
18l' 19I 7.EITER:
Yes.
20l t
21l SINCLAIR:
Do we have your permission to tape the interview?
22 23 ZEITER:
Yes.
24l I
25l l
C57 208 l
i
f.
l 2
l lj SINCLAIR:
Do you want a copy of the tape or transcript?
l 21 ZEITER:
Yes.
3 4
SINCLAIR:
5 At this point, I will ask Mr. Zeiter to provide some information concerning his employment in the nuclear industry.
Mr. Zeiter will you 6
please give us some of your background?
7 8
gj ZEIT3:
I've just had 5 years at Three Mile and as a radiation chemistry technician.
Prior to that I didn't have any nuclear experience.
All my 10l experiencs has been here.
You know, in the last 5 years.
121 l
YUHAS:
Thank you.
This is Greg Yuhas.
Mr. Zeiter before each comment 13!
I'll be saying my last name, so it may seem a little bit strange.
The reason we do this is for the gal that types up the transcript, to try to make it a little easier for her to distinguish between voices.
16i i
17l YUHAS:
In the 5 years, you must have started about 1973 or 74?
18l 191 ZEITER:
Uhuh.
Around 1973.
20l 21l YUHAS:
Ok.
In 1973 you came in as a chem analyst, at that point?
22 23 ZEITER:
No, I started as a radiation chemistry technician, junior.
2 41 1
25f i
857 209
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3 1
j YUHAS:
Ok.
Could you describe the training that Metropolitian Edison 1!
provided on your initial employment with the company?
2!
l 31 l
ZEITER:
My initial training was two weeks in a trailer of watching health 4!
l physics films and training by an HP foreman, and after that it was more or Si j
less on-the-job training.
P Gl I
71 YUHAS:
Was there a single HP foreman that provided your training during that two-week period?
9 10 ZEITER:
Really there was two of them.
Mostly it was done by Ken Beil and 11f another man Dick Decon helped out.
But mostly it was Ken Biel, he did most t
12' of the training.
We saw films and then he trained us.
You know, basic HP 13 training.
141 i
15i YUHAS:
Did this training include examinations?
16!
17 ZEITER:
Yeah, we've had five, or I'd say around five, tests during this 181 training.
19i 20i YUHAS:
Have you attended any vendor chemistry schools?
21, 22!
ZEITER:
No.
I did have a chance.
But the time I had the chance I couldn't 1
23!
arrange through my personal life to make it.
I 2 41 25!
n;7 91n GJt I U s.
i I
I 4
o 4
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gj YUHAS:
Okay, I see.
What I'd like to do now is have you give us in your wn w rds a scenario of where you were when the incident occurred, and what 2
i actions you took for the first three days; in other words, you heard about 3
it such and such a time and you did this, and then we'll go back and try to 4l Sj fill in s me f the thin spots...
6![
ZEITER:
Uhuh 8
YUHAS:
... based on our understanding of what happened, things that may 9),
refresh your memory.
101 l
11 ZEITER:
Uhuh.
12 13 f
YUHAS:
Okay, why don't you go ahead and start?
14l i
15j ZEITER: Well, I was in the Chem Lab when the reactor first tripped, and it 16!
was nothing abnormal, it was like any other trip that we've experienced at 17, Unit 2.
There was-you had p hnty of them in the last six months.
Startup 18j and testing and they just said the reactor turbine tripped first and then 19i the reactor tripped.
That didn't mean really to much to me except that 201 when they trip, we have to take two samples within a couple of hours:
the 21 I-Unit 2 condenser vacuum pump, gas and tritium; and the Unit 2 reactor 22 coolant RC, or Reactor Coolant letdown, for isotopic or, rather, dose-23l l
equivalent iodine--they had to be taken after a change of 15% power within 24!
l an hour, which we had when they tripped. They went down all the way, other 25!
i l
l C37 211 b
i j
I 5
t than that I didn't think it would be anything abnormal.
Around an hour, i
lets say, around 45 minutes later, I was asked to get a boron analysis to 21 see how much boron, PPM boron was in the system.
I got that and it did drop 300 and some ppm.
I didn't understand that, that started to make me 4j think that something wasn't right, because they normally would go up.
They 5l l
added BWST water to the core and that would normally made the ppm boron go 6i up, instead of drop...
7 81 YUHAS:
Excuse me, BWST is what?
91 10i ZEITER:
Borated Water Storage Tank.
11.
12l i
YUHAS:
Thank you.
13 i
14 f
ZEITER:
And then they, I called the rasults up to the control room, and 15i they couldn't understand it, so they asked me to get another one.
So I got I
1 61 i
another one and it dropped even further, to 400 and some ppm.
Now my 171
(
results then started to--I, I knew something was wrong but as it turned out l
18j l
l the numbers of boron really wasn't that low.
I was just getting the bad 191 sample of what I was told, because of, I don't really know exactly why, but 20 due to the steam in the sample lines, or something, I was not getting good 21 samples.
It was--the sample was--either in steam form before the cooler--
22 or for some reason.
I was told that the ppm boron was there but I wasn't 23 getting the good sample.
Now I forget exactly why an' how I got a bad 24 sample, but I was told I got a bad sample and it really wasn't that low.
25i i
C57 212 t
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This was, I would say, a day later.
After that I wanted to get a Unit 2 reactor coolant sample for a gross beta gamma, which is an activity sample i
to determine the activity, radioactivity in the reactor coolant water.
I i
got a sample and I put it on our multi-channel analyzer to count.
Now, I
_j knew something was drastically wrong then, because the dead time of the Di
,1 machine went up a lot higher than it should be, which meant the sample was el I
a lot higher radioact' ity than normally, just say a couple of' hours ago.
The idea of gross beta gamma and that really went high, sixteen times 9:
higher than it should have been, and this was around six o' clock on the morning that it happened.
After that, all of the alarms started going off 10l 11l in the nuc. sampling room, nuclear sampling room, the radiation alarms.
We went in and took a dose rate, not myself but Mike Janowski, and the dose w
rate was.a lot higher than it normally would have been, and we knew some-13 l
thing was wrong then. We thought that the fuel was failing.
We didn't 141 know why, but we thought we had failed fuel.
Then, after that, there 15i l
l wasn't too much after that, the air activity started going up in places.
16i Really from there it started in the Unit 2 aux building, and worked its 17!
way.
We were in there in respirators, and it just wurked its way over the
{
18l whole island, Unit 1, Unit 2, the control rooms.
We were over at Unit 2.
19i We locked, or closed the doors to the aux building, auxilliary building, 20 and we were taking air samples there and they were really high, certain 21 people were getting contaminated because the levels were going up and they 22I really didn't realize it yet.
They just kept moving us back as the contam-23 ination, airborne, spread so we ended up in the Unit I control room. We 24 weren't wearing respirators there, but they were logging the activity per 25l MPC-hours, because we weren't wearing respirators.
o"s7 913
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After that, I really didn't do much as for taking samples, and around two o' clock I went home, went down to the substation and got checked out and then went home.
I went home, and I guess got home around three, and I 3
slept a while and I came back out at work that night, and by that time there was mass confusion, rea'lly.
We went to work at the observation 5
center and they trucked us over.
Anywhere through the North Gate we had to wear respirators, from the North Gate in and from there I went to the Unit I control room.
I think the first night and what I basically I did was taking air samples in the turbine building and in the control room of Unit 1 and, you know, it was~just little odd jobs like that.
I can't really I
remember exactly what, you know, routine HP work up there.
After that, I 11:
think the second night I came to work at seven, seven at night until seven
'12l in the morning.
Wwe were on twelve hour shifts then, and I was to doing a 131 little chemistry then. We drew a reactor coolant bleed tank sample before 14i we, it was in the second day, and nobody, realized how hot it was.
I got slightly contaminated but I had gloves on and it just went through the 16l l
gloves, the iodine went right through.
You know, one or two or three pair 17!
of gloves.
I didn't really pick up any high exposures during this whole 18i thing.
I wasn't in Unit 2 during the first week, which was probably the 19 reason why, because anybody that went in the Unit 2 aux building, they got 20 high exposures--most of them got high exposures.
But I just did odd jobs 21l like helping out, counting peoples TLD's, you know, dosimetry, that needed 22 it, and helping out really in Unit 1.
But I don't know really, I can't 23 really remember the details of what I did but.
i 24 t
25I I
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C57 214 i
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i
-l 8
i YUHAS:
Thank you.
Now we're going to go back and try to ask more specific l;
2,l questions.
Ok, you were in the Chem Lab, Unit 1 when you heard the announce-I ment that turbine trip followed by reactor scram or reactor trip..
31 4!
ZEITER: Right.
6' YUHAS:
Ok, about what time did you put the Unit 2 reactor-letdown sample or reactor coolant sample on recirc?
8 l
9 ZEITER:
I'd say it was around five o' clock.
10l i
11l YUHAS:
Can you briefly describe the lineup for that recirc sample?
12f 131 l
ZEITER:
It was already lined up.
For me to put it on recirc, consisted 14!
of turning one motorized valve on the panel and it was on recirc.
15!
16!
{
YUHAS:
Was recirc pathed through the cooler.
17l l
18i i
ZEITER:
Um, right.
19l 20j i
YUHAS:
.. or through the pressurized bomb?
21!
22 ZEITER:
Through the cooler.
23 24l i
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gj YUHAS:
O k.
So the bomb....
l 2
ZEITER:
3 No, the bomb wasn't even on, it was through the cooler, straight i
4l to the samples sink and if your valves shut off the sample sink it goes 5l back to the makeup tank.
l 6i YUHAS:
Ok.
l 8l ZEITER:
You know, what we did was recirced it.
Instead of draining the 91 sink, we just recirced it right back to the makeup tank.
When you get i
ready to draw your sample you just drain in the sink, you know, for a 11:,
while, a couple--even two minutes--is fine if its on recirc now, and draw 12!
I your sample.
13) 14!
YUHAS:
Ok.
Now, after you have it on recirc, and you said you put it on 15i about five o' clock.
Approximately what time did you take the first sample 16i i
for baron?
17!
18{
ZEITER:
I'd say, I think it might have even, no it wasn't on recirc, I think I probably took the sample around, I'd say around 5:15.
20l 21 YUHAS:
So you recirced it for about fifteen minutes?
22 23 ZEITER: Well, I think it was really more than fifteen minutes.
I think it 24 was more like a half hour to forty minutes really.
It might even been on 25j 0$7 9I[
1 os/
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recire, but I don't think it was because we don't sample that-yeah, we did y
sample it that night earlier--but I don't--we normally turn it off recirc 2,
when we're done for the night but I think it was on I'd say forty or I'd 3
say around a half hour.
4 5
YUHAS:
Do you know approximately the recirc flow rate Is there an indica-6-
tion of ' low rate there or is it just Delta P across the drag valve?
f j
81 I
i ZEITER:
It's would be around, the pressure gauging woul'd be around eighty 9
pounds of pressure througn the drag valve, that would be the recirc of let down.
11' i
12i YUHAS:
That would be eighty pounds Delta T across the drag...
I 141 ZEITER:
Right, ahha...
151 16i l
YUHAS:
O k.
So somewhere around 5:15, you went in and you flushed for the 17!
first boron...
18l 19f ZEITER:
Ahha.
20l i
2 11 YUHAS:
Did you open the sample valve from the line, and you flushed that 22 about two minutes?
23l 1
24!
i 25i 057 217 i
1 I
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11 ZEITER:
Ahha.
li I
2 YUHAS:
That's standard procedure?
3 I
4l ZEITER:
Yeah, it really is standard procedure to recirc it, really for 5
around I'd say a half hour, forty-five minutes.
Then, once it's on recirc 6,1 that long, you know, you've got a good representative sample in the lines, 7
i you know, and you don't have to flush in the sink long because you really 8\\
g!
couldn't because, after, say, a couple of years, the sample is gonna be too hot.
You're gonna cause, you know-you couldn't just flush it for say even five, ten minutes.
If you recall--if you release it through the stacks, you know, our monitors do alarm.
So really a good flush af a half hour to forty-five minutes with recirc time gets you good representative sample, 13l l
and right there you've got a short line of two minutes flushes is plenty to 14) i flush that out.
15j 16l l
YUHAS:
Ok.
17!
i 181 ZEITER:
So, you know, really draining the sink two, three minutes is fine.
19!
20!
YUHAS:
And when you, when you flushed out approximately two minutes worth 21i of water into the sink, did the air sampler located in the nuclear sample 22lj room alarm?
23' 24 25l l
057
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12 1
ZEITER:
No.
2 3
YUHAS:
Was the air sampler on the nuclear sample room?
4 5
ZEITER:
Yes.
61 YUHAS:
It did not alarm?
7 8
g ZEITER:
No.
f 10l{
YUHAS:
Ok.
About what volume of water did you draw for the boron sample?
I 121 ZEITER:
I drew around 500 ml.
13 14 I
YUHAS:
Did you notice any abnormal radioactivity associated with that.
15:
~
16i i
17i ZEITER:
No.
181 19i l
YUHAS:
500 mi sample?
201 I
i 21; ZEITER:
No.
22 23 YUHAS:
Did you check it with an instrument or....
24 25 857
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I 13 1;
ZEITER:
No.
i 2!
l' 3
YUHAS:
monitor or anything?
4 5
ZEITER:
No, no. I didn't think anything was seriously wrong....
I 61 1
YUHAS:
Right.
I understand.
7l 8
ZEITER:
g
... we draw letdown samples all the time we know about what they 10l 11l I
YUHAS:
Ok.
12' 13 ZEITER:
we do gross beta gamma on them every night, to me what I l
would do is normal.
C k.
I didn't think there was any cause to be alarmed,
- 15i, I
at that point, it was-just a normal trip, a normal shutdown.
161 17f i
YUHAS:
Do you routinely run boron analysis?
18(
19i ZEITER:
Yeah, every day we run baron on the reactor coolant.
20!
21l
{
YUHAS:
Ok.
Are you familiar enough with this to describe how to do a 22 boron analysis?
24l l
25l l
857 220 i
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Ilj ZEITER:
Yes.
You draw a sample, couple hundred mls, you take five mils of l
2j it, put it in a beaker, add 95 mils of wa'ter, stick it under a set of pH I
3f probes.
You titrate with sodium hydroxide til the pH goes to 8.5.
You 4
record the number of mils you used of sodium hydroxide and you take that 3
amount of mils times an operator's number which was derived from running 6
three cap samp'es, and you take that operator number times the amount of 7
mils and that gives you parts per million baron.
And that's all there is to it. Thats basically what you do.
8 9l I
YUHAS:
Do you remember the pH of this first sample?
O 11l ZEITER:
Ah... the pH, we had manitolled the sample.
I could not give you an accurate pH of the sample before I added manitol.
I don't know what it was.
14l l
15i YUHAS:
Ok.
16i 17!
ZEITER:
We used pH, we used manitol to lower the pH in every sample of 18[
boron we put manitol in, and...
191 i
20 YUHAS:
You put this in before.......before you put in the probe.
21i 22f ZEITER:
Ahah.
23l 24l 25l g7 021 os I
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15 llj YUHAS:
O k.
Fine.
Now, that sample was taken about 5:15, about what time 2
did you finish the analysis?
I 31 i
4j ZEITER:
Five-twenty. About a five minute job.
t 5!
i 6j YUHAS:
And that one indicated you said earlier, 300 less than normal?
7 ZEITER:
Right, it was seven hundred and some ppm.
Our normal sample--we 8
didn't do a whole set of reactor coolants analysis--earlier in the night g
10.
and it was over a thousand.
I think it was a thousand and fifty.
It had dropped to seven hundred and something.
l 12!
YUHAS:
Ok.
131 l
141 ZEITER:
And that was cause for me to think, what, you know, it shouldn't a been, because earlier I was just told that the boron water storage tank 16i pumped water into the coolant after tha trip, which would increase the 17!
boron insteaa of decreasing it.
IS{
19l YUHAS:
Did you log the seven hundred ppm number somewhere?
20l 21!
i ZEITER:
I logged in the book, our log book....
22I 23 YUHAS:
Chemistry log book?
24 25l l
C57 222 I
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16 li ZEITER:
... Chemistry log book.
2!
YUHAS:
3, Alright, so you were dubious about this seven hundred ppm and you 4j phoned it into the Unit 2 control room?
5 ZEITER:
Yes.
61 7
YUHAS:
Ok.
And then they directed you to take a second sample.
g i
9 es.
10l 11!
YUHAS:
Ok. Now the whole time the sample is still on recirc, right? You did not secure the recirc line..
i 14!
ZEITER:
No.
Si 15 YUHAS:
.... aft 3r you collected the first one?
181 i
ZEITER:
No, no.
191 20l I
YUHAS:
O k.
Did you go immediately in to collect another sample?
21!
22 ZEITER:
Yes.
23 24 25 l
857 223 O
i l
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17 l
i 1l YUHAS:
O k.
About what time did you take that sample?
2!
l 31 ZEITER:
I'd say around Five-thirty.
4 I
S YUHAS:
When you took the sample at five thirty, or not five-thirty, but 6l the 0515 sample did you aliquot any of that off for a gross iodine or for,
i 71 l
8l 1
ZEITER:
No, our dose-equivalent iodine we're suppose to get two hours g
10l after shutdown, but before six hours.
Anywhere between, after two hours 11 but before six hours, so there wasn't time to da the dose equivalent iodine sample yet.
g 13 g'
YUHAS:
Ok, fine.
Now, the 0530 sample, you sent in and you just essentially flushed for another two minutes and collected the second sample...ok.
16l g
ZEITER:
Ahha, a five minute job it doesn't take long to run it, run a t
i boron once you have your caps run and your standards run.
IS!
191 YUHAS:
Ok On this one, on the five-thirty sample when you collected it 201 did you get any local, airborne radiation.
22 ZEITER:
No, no.
24 25l 124 r
eua I
18 1
YUHAS:
....or anything like that? Still normal.
I 2
3 ZEITER:
Still normal.
Everything was normal except the boron was, had 4
oropped. But other than that there was no alarming in this nuclear sampling ro m f any kind, the control room didn't call for any alarms from anywhere.
5 6l YUHAS:
And you' flushed it for two minutes just like you did the other one.
7 8
ZEITER:
Roughly two minutes.
g 10 YUHAS:
Ok. You followed the exact same procedure as far as... all right g.
so you run it and this time you get what for ppm boron?
g 13 ZEITER:
A little over 400 ppm.
15j YUHAS:
Was there anyone else in the lab with you at this time?
17 ZEITER:
Tom Davis was'in the lab.
18j 19i YUHAS:
And did you consult with Mr. Davis about this finding?
20' 21 ZEITER:
Yeah, I told him I couldn't understand why it was going down.
22
-23 YUHAS:
Did he offer any explanation to you?
24l 1
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19 l
ZEITER:
No.
He didn't know.
1.
I 2l 3
YUHAS:
O k.
4-5 ZEITER:
Neither one of us knew why it had gone down since they added, el supposedly added, the borated water storage tank, water to the reactor coolant system.
7 8
YUHAS:
Now did you log this number in the book?
g 10l 11;!
ZEITER:
That was logged in the book.
i 12l YUHAS:
Do you remember the number?
i 14j ZEITER:
It was between four and five hundred ppm, that's all I can remember.
15!
16I i
YUHAS:
Ok. What is the significance of a load rejection trip and then 17' having four or 500 ppm boron?
IS!
19i ZEITER:
Well...
20l l
21!
j YUHAS:
For Physics, do you know?
22' 23 ZEITER:
Well, I don't know but I know they usually add boron to keep--make 2 41 l
sure it's not gonna go critical again.
And the boron keeps it from going 2Si 037 226 i
i
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20 i
1 critical, the higher, you know, by adding baron it keeps the criticality 2
from happening and once you get a low boron it could go critical.
I ai YUHAS:
Who specifically did you tell, do you remember who you talked to 4
Sj when you called up and gave them these two readings?
i 61 i
ZEITER:
I think I talked to Fred Scheimann, the Unit 2 Shift Foreman.
7 8
YUHAS:
And what was his reaction?
g i
10l ZEITER:
His reaction was they really couldn't understand it.
They didn't understand why it would have dropped.
i 13l l
YUHAS:
Did Mr. Dubiel come into the Chem Lab about this time?
141 15i ZEITER:
Yeah he was there, he got there right, well he really got there before that, I'd say ten fifteen minutes before that.
17l l
18t YUHAS:
Was he there when you conducted the first boron sampla?
191 20!
ZEITER:
No.
21!
22 YUHAS:
Ok.
23 24 25 i
C57 227
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21 1
ZEITER:
He got there right after work.
2 l
YUHAS:
So he got between the two borons.
3; 4l ZEITER:
Right.
51 l
6l YUHAS:
Did he take any action as far as understanding what happened with 7
these decreasing baron samples?
8 9f ZEITER:
No.
He was like running around doing some other stuff.
I told 0
him about it and he couldn't understand either.
He didn't understand why 1 11 it had dropped.
At about that time he asked myself and Todd, or Tom Davis, if we wanted to go into the Unit 2 reactor building and do a job, stay 14:
He didn't know, he didn't know what was going on.
We turned him over.
down and said, " Send some fresh bodies in, we've worked all night." We 15i said, " Yeah, we'll run boron, but not go into the reactor with a Scott 16l Airpact on.
He really didn't, he didn't understand why the boron had 171 I
dropped.
18l 191 YUHAS:
Did he ask Tom to run a second boron analysis from the sample you 20!
collected at 0530?
21!
22 ZEITER:
I don't think he did.
I ran two samples and he didn't ask him to 23 run a backup.
241 i
25i C57 228 l
J
22 i
ilj YUHAS:
OK.
You ran both you can two samples at 0530?
I 2
ZEITER:
Right. YUHAS:
Did you log both those sample results?
3 4I ZEITER:
I logged them both in the book.
5 61 YUHAS:
OK.
Good.
Did you do any radioactivity measurements on the sample 7
8 9-ZEITER:
No, I drew that a little bit later.
11l YUHAS:
Ok, the sample still on recirc then?
13 ZEITER:
Right.
And I put it on a multi-channel analyzer, commonly known 14}
l to us as a "Ge(Li)," and at that time on.1 mils was approximately 40 151 percent at 10 centimeters from the detector.
And this was out way higher 16l l
than it normally ran.
Normally you can put a sample 1 mil, I think, at 3 171 centimeters and you only have about 10 percent dead time.
And this sample 18j was way higher and I knew something was wrong then because the activity was 19l going up.
We were thinking if not then, soon after, something happened--
201 failed fuel, we were thinking the fuel had leaked out into the system.
What else would you think? After that I got a gross beta gamma--it was 22-either before that or after that--I got a gross beta gamma, which consists 23 of a cooking.1 mils down on a planchet, and sticking it under a GM tube 241
[
and counting it for one minute.
Taking your results and then going through 25j i
I C57 229 t
l 23 1;
some formulas that would give you an answer in microcuries per mil.
And 2
that was 4. something, 4.0 microcuries per mil, which was an increase of I
3j n rmally--that ran roughly.2 microcuries per mil.
I 4j YUHAS: And that sample was collected...?
5 61 ZEITER:
I'd say around 6:00, I'm not sure exactly when, but I'd say around 7
8 9l i
YUHAS:
Ok, and the sample that you'd taken earlier in the evening when you 10l had done the Unit 2 reactor chemistry u
ZEITER: Was.2 microcuries per mil.
14 l
YUHAS:
Did you convey this information to the Unit 2 control room?
15i 16j i
ZEITER:
I called over, yes.
I called and told them the activity was going 17l l
' up.
IS!
i 191 YUHAS:
Ok, and who did you speak to at that time?
20!
21!
ZEITER:
I really, I think I talked to the control room operator, although I don't remember his name.
I think the shift-they were pretty busy over--
23 there and a lot of times you just talked to the control room operator 24i giving your information-you don't tell the shift foreman.
25' l
857 230 i
l
l
{
24 i
l 1l YUHAS:
Allright.
I 2
SINCLAIR:
This is John Sinclair.
We're going to break and change the 3
4 tape.
The time is presently 7:51 a.m.
Si l
SINCLAIR:
This is Sinclair again, we're resuming the interview with Mr.
6 Zeiter this is at 7:55 a.m.
7 8
YUHAS:
So picking it up where the gross degas beta gamma went to 4 micro-g Curies and it had been.2 microcuries earlier in the evening, you informed 11;!
the Unit 2 control room.
OK. What actions did you take after this?
I 12 ZEITER: Well.
I went over really at the time--I don't know what I did for the next 10 or 15 minutes, but it seemed like it wasn't too long after that 14!
I the monitors started to go off in the nuclear sample room, and Mike Janouski 15!
l took a dose rate in there took a dose rete and found out everything really 16i went high.
I forget exactly what numbers he came up with for a dose rate on the sampling line, but they were way higher than normal.
Then we secured the let-down sample.
19l 20l YUHAS:
The sample that read 4 microcuries per ml:
Did Janouski or yourself 211 l
check that with a dose rate instrument?
22' 23 ZEITER:
No.
No.
24 25l 037 23l i
i f
I
{
25 YUHAS:
Ok.
Did you go ahead and run the iodine on that one?
y l
2.
ZEITER:
I don't think we did, because it wasn't due for an iodine yet and 3
i in the confusion I don't think we ran an iodine on that one.
I'm pretty sure we didn't.
Si i
6i YUHAS:
Did you when you went in the nuc sample room, did you go with Janowski to respond to the alarm?
8l i
9l l
ZEITER:
Yea, I went in right after he did.
I was behind him and he took 10l l
the dose rate and of course we secured letdown and got out, because it was a high radiation area.
l 131 YUHAS:
What alarms were going off specifically?
14, 15i ZEITER:
RMA12 is a local air monitor in the nuclear sampling room.
16i 17 YUHAS:
Does that have more than one channel, does that have a particulate 18[
~
l iodine and gas 191 20 ZEITER:
Iodine and gas.
21l 22 YUHAS:
Do you know what channels were going off?
23 24j 25l qq7
'). 3 2 u
i l
l' J
26 ZEITER: I really don't know, it just alarmed.
I forget which one they 1
really were.
They were going off.
2 3
YUHAS:
Do you remember-, did Mr. Janouski tell you what the dose rate was 4
n the sample line?
5 6
ZEITER:
I think he did, but I sort of forgot it.
I didn't know.
He just 7
like yelled it, er not yell but he just said it, said it you know.
I g
forget what it really was.
I really wouldn't want to say what I think 9I i
because I wouldn't even trust it being right.
.11 YUHAS:
Do you remember what sort of instrument Mr. Janouski was using?
13 ZEITER:
Teletector.
14!
15!
YUHAS:
Okay.
So this was a contact reading he took on it?
16i i
17 ZEITER:
Um hum (agreed).
18r.
i 19f l
YUHAS:
... on the sample line.
20 21, ZEITER:
Yea, he took a contact reading on the sample line.
22 23 YUHAS:
Ok, so the two of you, you secured let down 24 25l 857 233
[
a
i j
27 i
ZEITER:
I-secured letdown.
i 2
YUHAS:
And, specifically what valve did you operate to secure letdown flow?
S ZEITER:
I really don't know.
I can't think of the valve number.
7 YUHAS:
O k.
What description wise?
9 ZEITER:
It's a motorized valve on the panel Unit 2 sampling panel that 10l l
controls the flow of the letdown, reactor coolant letdown, to the sample llt sink and then back to the makeup tank.
12l 13 YUHAS:
Ok, and about what time did you isolate that valve?
14!
15!
ZEITER:
I'd say it was close to quarter after six, 6:30, around that time.
16i l
I 17 f
YUHAS:
Did either you or Janouski call the control room and tell them that ISJ you had secured letdown?
19i 201 i
ZEITER:
No.
I don't think I did.
I don't remember calling them.
21l 22' YUHAS:
The Unit 2 control room would have no idea of these remote area 23 monitors that had gone off in Unit 1, is that correct?
24 25l 057 234 f
a
28 ZEITER:
Oh yea, they have readouts up there.
Ah, the Unit, no, the Unit 2 doesn't.
You're right.
Unit I has readouts.
3 YUHAS:
So the Unit 2 control room operator would not think to have shut or i
secured letdown from the control room, right?
51 6
ZEITER:
No.
Probably not.
Although I can't say for sure.
81 YUHAS:
In other words, normally they don't secure letdown unless you call i
9 them and tell them?
10' 11 I
ZEITER:
No.
12!
13 l
YUHAS:
O k.
Right now the only valves that were isolated was.the valve 14!
that you closed?
15i 16i j
ZEITER:
Right, but that valve--let's see--where does that valve secure it 171 l
at? The motorized valve I did does secure it from the reactor building 18l over.
You know, it's a motorized valve in the reactor, it does control the 19f letdown valve in the reactor building to send flow over to the sampling 20l room.
21l t
22I YUHAS:
Ok, at the time you got the RMA12 alarm, did you also get an RMG3, i
23 which is the...
2 41 i
25l u
7 935 G
t t
l u
29 ZEITER:
g Yea, all the alarms started to go off.
I 2f YUHAS: When you say all the alarms, you mean the alarms in Unit l?
i 4j l
ZEITER:
Yea, all alarms around there started going off.
51 5!
YUHAS:
O k.
Did the Unit I control room supervisor announce'a local emergency or high radiation area alarms?
9 i
ZEITER:
A local emergency.
10j 11!
YUHAS:
Ok.
He announced that over the PA system.
12 13 ZEITER:
Um hum (agreed).
141 1
15j YUHAS:
And what action was taken at that point?
16l 17l l
ZEITER:
Air samples were being drawn.
You know, everybody was getting air 18!
samples in different areas, seeing what the air activity was.
That's, dose
~
19i l
rates were taken in different areas.
At the time there really was mass 201 l
confusion. I was--I forget exactly where I went then.
Let's see.
I think 21l l
from there... I went over to Unit 2.
22 23 YUHAS:
This is when you went to the Unit 2 Auxiliary Building?
24-i 25 C57 236
-l
\\
i I
i l
30 I
!lj ZEITER:
Ah, I really don't remember.
l 2t YUHAS:
About the time that these alarms wera loing off in Unit 1, were 3
4j there day-shift people coming in?
i 5
ZEITER:
The alarms were...
This happened right before day shift people Sl came in, or right...
Really, at the time the alarm went off and I'd say 5, 7
gj 10 minutes, day shift people were coming in, it was close to 7. Between quarter of 7 and 7:00.
g 10l t
YUHAS:
Do you remember when they announced the site radiation emergency?
12, ZEITER:
I think it was within the next hour.
I 14!
15l YUHAS:
Ok.
So you guys were responding to the local radiation emergency there in Unit I?
16i 17;l i
ZEITER:
Yes.
18!
191 YUHAS:
Ok.
Shortly thereafter, they announced the site emergency.
Is 20 that when the ECS was activated?
21 22.I ZEITER:
Yes.
23 24 25!
l l
857 237
l
{
31 1
YUHAS:
But you didn't activate it on the local?
1 2:
3' I
4i YUHAS:
O k.
Who was in charge of the ECS? Were you there when the word 6lI was passed for a site radiation emergency? Were you there in the Unit 1 chem lab, HP?
81 l
ZEITER:
I was over in Unit 2, the Unit 2 HP area, when they announced 91 i
that.
10l ll!
12'{
YUHAS:
O k.
When you went from Unit 1 to 2 it must have been sometime between 6:30 and 7 right?
13, t
14!
ZEITER:
That's where I'm a little hazy.
No, I went, I think I went--I was 15i in Unit 1 close to 7:00.
No I don't know if I walked over through Unit 2 16!
i to the Auxiliary Building or if I went around.
You can go through a corridor 17}
of the turbine outside of, outside the Aux Building, yea.
I forget where I 18(
went then--I either went to get a condenser vacuum pump sample or--I really 19!
don't remember, but somehow--well, I ended up over in Unit 2 control room 20 or the Unit 2 HP lab area, I know I came through--I didn't go through the 21, j
Auxiliary Building, I came the other way, I'm sure, because I went through 22 the door...
23 24 25!
o 7
,38 e:
4 i
32 YUHAS:
Through a--door?
l 2
ZEITER:
No. I went through the door going back to the control point from 31 the turbine building. Well, from the control tower into the HP lab area, 4
which is you know the clean area back.
And everybody was, you know, respira-tor, they said the air was activity--there was going high--and you know I ut a respirator on, a pair of coveralls and boots on.
7 8
YUHAS:' When you came in from the control building area into the Unit 2 Auxiliary Building control point area, do you remember any of the people you saw there at that time?
12 ZEITER:
Karl Myers was there, Mike Kuhn was there, Dick Benner was there either then or a little later, Richard Benner he was there.
A little bit 141 i
later Ed Houser was there, and we were just taking air samples.
They had 15j closed the Aux building doors going from the HP lab area into the Aux 16l l
building.
They had closed them because they knew the air was coming from 17l there. We were just taking air samples, and we closed the door outside the 18i HP lab area going to the control room tower, to try to keep it in, the air 19!
i activity, from going, you know, out into the control tower.
We were taking 201 air sa'mples, then passing them out through the door in the control tower 21.
and they were, you know, like putting them on the frisker.
I don't know if 22 they were counting back there.
I think they were--had let them set out, 23 out there eventually, and they were oh I know, they had a Ludlum out there.
24l We were counting air samples out there, taking them from the HP lab area.
25; i
I i
i l
cG7
')XQ l
Us/
cs/
J
i 33 YUHAS:
Ok.
Do you remember any numbers that they may have given you in i
terms of about what the concentrations were?
2\\
31 ZEITER:
I remember.
It was some e'0 gross activity in that area.
4I S'
YUHAS:
O k.
You said you were wearing full face respirators?
7 ZEITER:
Right, full face respirators.
9' YUHAS: What typc of cartridge on the respirator?
101
/
11!
ZEITER:
Ah, just regular Scott cartridge, it wasn't an iodine canister, 12i just a regular particulate cartridge.
13 14!
YUHAS:
Did you take any dose rates in the Unit 2 chem HP area?
15i 16i ZEITER:
The dose rates were--we did take the dose rates, and if I remember, 17 they were,...let's see, I'd say they were less than a hundred mr.
I can't 18j recall; exactly if that I'd say they were less than a hundred mr, or they 19l i,
were higher than normal.
20!
21 YUHAS:
Cid you do any valve lineup for a once through steam generator 22 sample? You know, STG sample.
23 l
24) 25j i
o;7 740 os i.
J l
t
{
34 i
gj ZEITER:
No.
I didn't do any I didn't get in on that lineup.
2; YUHAS:
O k.
3 4l 5)
EITER:
I was there outside the--in the control tower when I think they "9
"*"P'
- E*"
- ~#
6
~
dose rate over by the step-off pad going into the Unit 2 reactor building 7
Was greater than--it Was 1 or 2 rems right at the step-off pad. Which is, ah, 15 feet from the hatch.
10j YUHAS:
Ok, this is, yea, I was going say this is the step-off pad is 10 or 11l 15 feet in front of the personal air lock?
13 ZEITER:
Right, and that was one or two rems, and we knew something, you 141 l
know, everybody knew there was big trouble.
Failed fuel, everybody unought, 15i you know.
Then everybody started, you know, everybody knew there was 16) something drastically wrong.
They didn't know what, you know, really.
17I Noone knew, then and, you know.
We just kept, like, moving back as the air 18l l
kept spreading we kept moving back until eventually, you know, there was 19!
nowhere to move.
It was just all over, you know, the air activity.
20 21I YUHAS:
Were you manning the control point outside the Unit 2 Auxiliary 22 Building when the site radiation emergency alarm was sounded? Did you hear 23 it?
246 l
25 OG7 9A1 bs<
41
o 35 l
1,l ZEITER:
Yea, I heard it.
Yea, I het.rJ the alarm and they made an announce-l ment.
2!
I i
4l YUHAS:
Do you remember where you were when you heard it?
I 5
ZEITER:
I was in the Unit 2 HP lab area.
6 7
YUHAS:
Oh, you were still in the-you hadn't moved outside the hallway g
yet?
9; 10 i
ZEITER:
No.
No, we were still in it.
11!
i 12 YUHAS: When you heard that alarm, what action did you take?
141 1s,i ZEITER:
Wel,1 we right then and there I didn't take any action, other tnan taking air sampies in that area right then.
You know, basically, I just continued doing what I was doing at the time.
17!
18{
YUHAS:
Ok.
Was there an HP foreman in the Unit 2 chem HP area at that 19!
t time?
20f 21' ZEITER:
No.
22 23 YUHAS:
Ok.
24 25 l
857-242
I i.
l j
36 ZEITER:
No, there was no foreman there.
y 2
YUHAS:
What, what, decision, or what action precipitated the decision to 3{
4j leave the chem HP area and establish a control point down the hall outside the...
g I
6l ZEITER:
That was...
That was still clean, in other words a frisker the 7
RM14's weren't high, and you could tell--we just moved it down there because 8
it was still--the area was basically clean then, and we could set our i
91 i
friskers up and--count our air samples and check people out as they came out.
11; i
12l YUHAS:
Did anyone come out contaminated from Unit 2 Aux Building?
14!
ZEITER:
Really, nobody then was in the Aux Building.
They were all--we 151 were all basically around in the HP lab area.
The Aux Building doors were 161 closed.
Nobody I knew of was in the Aux Building that came from the HP lab 17{
area. We roped off areas, like, posted signs going into the Aux Building.
18i We posted signs coming down from the second, third floor of the control 191 tower, not to come in even the HP area because it was airborne activity.
20f So we posted all the exits, or entrances and exits, you know, to the HP lab 21f area because the airborne.
But I don't remember anybody being in the Aux 22l Building from, you know, coming from the HP lab area.
There might have 23 j
been somebody in--from coming, from some other way.
24l 25j i
c :17 937 use tJ
37 i
YUHAS:
Do you remember the word being passed for personnel to evacuate or 11 stay clear of Unit 2 auxiliary building?
2' I
3f ZEITER:
Um, I really don't remember it, you know.
I couldn't say it i
4j j
wasn't announced.
I wouldn't say that it wasn't, but I don't remember Si hearing it.
6l 7
YUHAS:
All right.
About how long did you stay at the Unit 2 Aux Building 81 control point?
91 10j ZEITER-I'd say around 10 or 11:00.
11!
12l l
YUHAS:
Ok.
Do you remember where you went from there?
131 14!
ZEITER:
Yea, we went to the Unit 1 control room.
That's where the ECS was set up.
16f l
171 l
YUHAS:
O k.
Who was running the ECS in Unit 1 control room?
18!
19h ZEITER:
At the time, Tom Mulleavy was there.
I think he was running it 20r j
mostly at the time.
There was a lot of people up there.
Really, there was 21!
a lot of--there was NRC personnel, a lot of the operations shift foremen, shift supervisors, operators, and Tom Mulleavy and I think Len Landry was 23 there actually taking, directing, the offsite teams.
By then they had 24 offsite teams set up, and they were directing them.
25{
[
t 0G7 '44 u.
i
l i
38 i
i i
i gj YUHAS: Who was directing the onsite HP effort?
I 2'l 3l ZEITER: Well, right then Dick Dubiel and Tom Mulleavy were directing it.
i Really, they, they, were there and they were in charge, you know.
5 YUHAS:
What did you do between 11:00 and-you said you left around 2 that 6
day?
7 8
ZEITER: Taking air samples up there, in the tur..., in the control room g
and turbiite room.
10 11 YUHAS: Where were these air samples being counted?
i 13
-ZEITER:
Up there.
We had set up, let's see, where were--they were being 141 counted up there.
15i 16i YUHAS: Why weren't they being counted in the Unit 1 chem HP area?
17, i
18(
ZEITER:
I really don't know, except the activity was probably higher 191 there.
20f 21 YUHAS:
Ok.
Were you aware of another effort to take a reactor coolant 22 sample from Unit 2 after you left the Unit I chem HP area?
23 24 25l i
i C37 245 t
i
.i i
1
39 i
ZEITER:
No. I don't know of any.
g 2.
"^
^' " 9
- P""
3 significant air activity measured in the samples you had collected?
4 5
ZEITER:
You mean, air activity from...
6 7
YUHAS:
The turbine buildings or the control tower.
9l ZEITER:
Oh yes, the yea, there was e'Oth in the control room.
i 10 11 YUHAS:
Ok.
12l 13 ZEITER:
Air activity.
14i 15; I
YUHAS: Were personnel in the control room on respiratory protection?
16i 17 ZEITER:
No.
No they weren't.
We took everybody's name, in fact I did 18{
that. I had to go around asking everybody's name and what time they got 19!
there. I don't think it was a good way, because people were' coming in and 20l l
out the whole time, and you know there was like a lot of people, you know, 2 11 really it was a hopeless cause.
But, you know, at the time there weren't 22 respirators up there and I did make a list out supposedly for MPC log-23 hours.
i 24 25 857 246 i.
_~
(
40 YUHAS-Are you familiar with the air monitoring system for the Unit 1 1
i 2j control room?
i 3:
ZEITER:
I know some about it, pretty much about it.
4!
i Si YUHAS:
O k.
Did you go over and look at the readings on that panel?
6 7
ZEITER:
No, I didn't.
8 9
YUHAS:
Ok.
Did you notice that they were in the alarm mode?
0l I
11}
12}
ZEITER:
I think they were in alarm mode, pretty sure they were.
13 YUHAS:
Do you know if the control tower ventilation system was in operation, recirculation system?
16i I
ZEITER:
I really don't know.
17l 18 YUHAS:
Ok.
All right.
So Mr. Mulleavy sent you home at 2:00 in the 19l afternoon?
20l i
21!.
ZEITER:
Two; it was around 2:00.
22 23 YUHAS:
O k.
And what time did you return that evening?
i 24 25l l
857 247 i
o.
f 41 gj ZEITER:
11.
i 2
YUHAS:
Eleven pm, the night of the 2Gth.
3l 4l Si ZEITER:
My normal shift.
Si YUHAS:
And when you came in that night, you reported to the observation 7
center?
g I
9 ZEITER:
Yes.
I lif YUHAS:
Ok.
And who assigned you duties from the observation center?
12i i
13i I
ZEITER:
Nobody really assigned me there.
In fact, I didn't see any foremen 4
14!
there, ah, HP foremen.
I think Mike Janouski got information where we were 15i supposed to go, and we all dressed up there with protective clothing on, wetsuit, and went to the Unit I control room.
171 18l YUHAS:
You dressed this way at the observation center?
20l
-l ZEITER:
Yes.
2 11 22 YUHAS:
O k.
When you came to the North gate, what was going on at the 23 North gate that night?
24 25l i
f cC7 948 GJt l
I 42 l
ZEITER:
They were, ah--a lot of activity.
They were making sure everybody 1l i
2j was in a respirator going through and that was basically it.
They were 3
doing their job taking badge numbers and making sure everybody had a respira-tor on.
4 51 YUHAS:
Ok.
6 When you got to the process center, what was the condition of the process center at midnight on the 28th?
7 8
ZEITER:
The processing center, ah, I'd a, I'd say it was blah (?) jumpsetter(? ),
g but you know really wasn't that much, not nothing noticeable.
11 YUHAS: Were there other--were there guards there?
Was there any other people inside the process center or just the guys that got off the truck did you...?
i 15i j
ZEITER:
Really, that was about it.
There weren't that many people in 16!
there.
17 18l YUHAS:
O k.
And so yourself and Janouski and who else?
19 i
20 ZEITER: Janouski went over to Unit 2.
21!
I 22l YUHAS:
Ok, and you went to Unit I?
23 24l 25l j
s 057 249
{
43 i
ZEITER:
I went to Unit 1 control room.
i 2'
YUHAS:
And who was in control in the Unit 1 control room at that time?
3 4!
ZEITER:
I think Tom Mulleavy was there again.
I think he was there in the 5
Unit 1 control room, and that's about the only foreman that I remember O
being there.
Si YUHAS:
O k.
Now, were you assigned to an onsite survey team or were you i
91 i
just free-lancing?
10!
i 11:
i ZEITER:
I was just freelancing in the control room.
Taking air samples in 12l i
the turbine building, the control room building, in control room.
I helped 13l out the Unit 1 HP, they really weren't doing too much in Unit 1 HP then.
14!
No, not too many people were going in the lab area because, well, you know, 15l there was, of course, that was a respirator area.
There was no RWP filling 16l j
out then for that Unit 1 area, er, the, I'd say, the next few days RWP's 17l l
weren't even filled out, in the mass confusion.
18j 19i YUHAS:
Did you have any specific or significant findings on the night when 20i j
you worked from midnight, the 28th, until the following morning of the 21{
29th? Very high air activities, high dose rates in the turbine building, 22 anything like that?
23 24 25; L.a' ocn r
l JU I
J
44 l
ZEITER:
No, ah, the air activity was high e' all over, but dose rates 1.
2 weren't too high in the turbine building.
You know, they were high in the 3
like the nuc sample room but to, really--the dose rates in, I mean, they were higher than normal, I'd say.
I mean, they were definately higher than 4
n rmal, but they weren't high that I would be scared.
You know.
They 5
Weren't abnormal, well, they were abnormal but they weren't really that high.
7 8
YUHAS:
So on that shift you did not get involved in any reactor coolant g
I samples or steam generator chemistry on analysis in any length?
101 1
11!
ZEITER:
No.
12l l
13!
YUHAS:
O k.
You went home about 7:00 the morning of the 29th? And you returned about 7pm the night of the 29th?
1Si 16i ZEITER:
Ur hum (agreed).
17' l
18l YUHAS:
Ok.
Can you describe who you reported to and where you went?
19!
20:
ZEITER:
I reported to the Unit I control room again.
I think that night I was in counting, I was doing some chemistry I dont' know if it was then, 22'j l
but I think I was, I think it was that night I went down and did some 23 secondary chemistry. Neutralizer tank, PH which they dumped with the PH, 24 i
they didn't do the regular analysis on it.
Its not a radioactive sample, 25i I
i CJ7 251
(
45 1,
but they do certain analysis on it for the State,--to satisfy the state.
I 2
drew, I don't, I think it was that night I drew a bleed tank for something--
3 reactor coolant bleed tank sample from Unit 2, I think, hey, it was from 4j Unit 2.
I forget exactly what I drew.
I did on it.
I drew a sample, Sj I think, I, I know I saved the sample, but I forget what analysis I did on it, but it was reading I think around 500mr a beaker-full.
6 i
7 YUHAS:
Is this unusual?
g
'l ZEITER:
Yes, definitely unusual.
7g 11}
YUHAS: What would that sample normally read? What would that sample 12!
I normally have read?
13j 14!
ZEITER:
The sample I gather would have read--bleed tank--less than Smr.
ISI 16i YUHAS:
O k.
Do you remember what analysis you performed on the bleed tank 17!
and who,the results were reported to?
18!
191 ZEITER:
I really don't remember what I ran on it.
20l 21I YUHAS:
Did you write the results down somewhere?
22 23 ZEITER:
Yea, I wrote it in a log book.
24 25i l
l 1
857 252 i.
L
1 i
b f
46 i
lj YUHAS:
Same log book as you logged this other chemistry reading?
I 2
l 3l ZEITER:
Yea.
I saved the samples.
I was told to save em by Gary Reed.
4l YUHAS:
O k.
The on-site or once-through steam generator sam;iles--were they g
from Unit 1 or Unit 2?
el 7
ZEITER:
Tne...
9 YUHAS:
Steam generator samples, that you'd taken that~ night.
I 11l l
ZEITER:
Steam generator samples...
12i 131 YUHAS:
Yea, you said you did secondary chemistry.
Was that...
141 i
15i ZEITER:
Oh, no.
That was just a secondary neutralizer tank.
16j 17l YUHAS:
Oh, Ok.
IS{
i 19l ZEITER:
That wasn't a generator.
20l 21l YUHAS:
Ok.
This is the tank you are talking about dumping?
22 23 ZEITER:
Yea.
24 25\\
l J
Gvi l
1 k_
.f.
I
{
47 i
yj YUHAS:
And you made a comment about the pH in the tank not being right.
I 2
ZEITER:
Well, the pH was right, but they usually, when they dump the tank 3
they do more analysis on it.
Ok, they do a pH and suspended solids, and 4
g!
iron, and total er dissolved solids and alkalinity.
And what you do is you get an influent and effluent an hour after it started to dump and you run 6
j these analyses. Well, that night, we didn't.
Because of the, you know, the confusion, and...
l 91 l
YUHAS:
O k.
So, that night you just took one sample and measured the pH?
11!
I ZEITER:
Right.
The regular tank they were going to dump to the river, and 12l measure the pH, and that wasn't good so they dumped it.
14i YUHAS:
Ok.
Did you record that reading?
15l i
16i ZEITER:
That was recorded in the book.
Ok.
And I was told to save the 17 sample, the tank sample.
18j 19l YUHAS:
Ok.
Fine.
Yuhas, you mentioned earlier that a day.or so after the 20i i
incident someone explained to you why the boron numbers were low. Do you 21 remember who that was?
22 23 ZEITER:
I think it was Dick Dubiel.
241 25l i
o~7 '54 OJ l
l 48 YUHAS:
y, Do you remember the explanation that he gave you?
l 2:
ZEITER:
I really remember it vaguely, but I think he said the sample was--
31 the reactor coolant was so hot that, at one pr
- t in the sample line, that was, I think he said there was steam, and the boron either--what I under-5 stand it--is the steam it didn't go with the steam.
In other words, it some of it was left behind in the flow to the sample, and then when the sample when it got to cooler of course it was cool, right? And it was a sample that was without all the boron that should have been in it.
In other words, the boron was left behind, because the sample was steam, but I can't really believe that would be steam in the lines, cause it's, you know, it would still be--I don't, I don't really understand it, but the
(
boron was left behind the sample lines, and I really didn't get a representa-13{
l tive sample of the baron in the reactor coolant system at the time.
14!
15; YUHAS:
On the night that you came in, on the 29th, were you aware that 16i slightly before you came in Mr. Houser and Mr. Velez collected another 17 reactor coolant sample?
18l l
19i ZEITER:
I don't think then I was.
20!
i 213 YUHAS:
Ok.
Did you learn that later in the evening?
22 23 ZEITER:
I learned of that later in the next day or so, that they drew 24 another one.
25i i
o G 7,
(
f
{
49 i
l!
YUHAS:
Did you see (McKnight?) in there scrubbing? Or showering down and 2j trying to decon themselves in the Unit 1 chem lab area?
I 31 1
4j ZEITER:
No, I didn't see them.
I didn't them no.
I didn't really hear I 5l didn't really know about that 'til like a day or two there.
I didn't see Ed Houser until I'd say a day or 2 after that.
6!
7l YUHAS:
All right.
So, the night of the 29th into the morning of the 30th, 8
you did the secondary neutralizer tank?
g i
101 11;l ZEITER:
Um hum (agreed).
l 12!
I YUHAS:
The reactor bleed sample?
13l l
14j ZEITER:
Um hum (agreed).
16i YUHAS:
Did you do anything else of interest that evening?
17l 18{
ZEITER:
Not other than taking routine air samples.
I--it's hard for me to remember exactly what I did.
It really isn't, you know--if I was working 20!
l in Unit 2, I could probably tell you more, because you know you make the 21l runs in the Aux Building.
And it's--it's something would stick in your 22I mind, but what I did was really routine--routine HP over there in chemistry.
23 It really wasn't nothing out of the ordinary.
24l 25l l
C37 256
w r
(
50 lli YUHAS:
Then you got off the morning of the 30th, about 7, and returned 7 2
pm the night of the 30th?
3 4l ZEITER:
Right.
Si YUHAS:
6 From 7 pm to midnight, the night of the 30th, what did you do?
7 ZEITER:
I went--reported in Unit I control room, and I think the rest of 8'
that night I counted TLD's. We had our TLD counter, then.
It was--it was g
Met Ed was still operating it, then, in the trailer.
I counted TLD's for 10, people as they left through the North gate.
They'd drop their TLD's off and every so often I'd go out and pick up, when they had a fair amount of
'em--all their TLD's--and I counted ' em.
l 14!
YUHAS: Good.
Did you survey the TLD badge holders for contamination with 15i the HP 210 probe?
r 17 ZEITER:
Yea, I surveyed 'em and I found a couple of em that were contaminated.
And I went over and with the Maslam pump (?), which I had there.
191 1
20j YUHAS:
Did that remove the contamination?
21!
22 ZEITER:
Yes.
23 24 25j l
857 257
l 51 1{
YUHAS; O k.
Who had trained you to operate the TLD reader?
I 2l ZEITER:
I was trained by Mike Buring, sort of on-the-job again.
I do 3
4j remember a couple formal classes we had on TLD's.
5 YUHAS:
About how long ago would that have beer >?
6 7
ZEITER:
8j I'd say 3 years, 4 years, about 4 years, 3 or 4 years ago.
9 YUHAS:
O k.
Did you routinely run TLD quality control samples-someone spiked badges and asked you to read them?
11!
I i
12f ZEITER:
Yea, I read--I read spiked samples.
14, YUHAS:
How frequently?
15j 16i ZEITER:
Really, they were run every month, before we counted the monthly 17l l
TLD's.
We spiked them at 100mr you know in the heat exchanger vault room.
IS!
We calibrated our instruments, and we'd run 'em and they had to be within I
191 l
10 mr,10 percent of 100 mr, plus or minus 10 percent.
I think Houser did 20t 1
that.
I think we now and then ran samples or TLD's that were sent from Harshaw, and we checked the machine out.
22 23 (End of tape Side 2) SINCLAIR:
Came for the interview with Mr. David 24 I
Zeiter, the time is 8:33 a.m. and we're continuing the interview.
25 i
l 857 258 9
l 52 l
1l YUHAS:
Dave, did you ever run quality control checks on TLD badges that 2
have been exposed to beta radiation?
I 3
ZEITER:
No.
Our source was the cesium-137 source.
That's the only source.
5 I remember running 100 mR exposure from that.
6l YUHAS:
7 How did you measure personnel exposure to the neutron radiation?
8 ZEITER: Well about two months before the accident, we issued neutron TLD's g
to be counted on the TLD machine.
Before that we just, we would give them 10 neutron film badge, which were sent out.
I'd say, well before, a couple of 1
years before that, we just issued the film badge and then two months ago, 12!
I'd say, well, before the accident, I'd say it was around January to be exact, they started giving out neutron TLD's to be counted on the TLD 15l1 machine, and you went througt. certain calculations that, you know, for your neutren.d....
16i 17 YUHAS:
Did you have a neutron source that these badges were exposed to for calibration checks?
19l 20 ZEITER:
I don't think we had a source here.
We happen to have a neutron 21 i
source here but I don't remember if they were running any calibration check 22 i
by using our source.
24 l
25!
C57 259 L
l j
i 53 l
7 I'm going to ask you some questions now just about general HP YUHAS:
aspects at Metropolitan Edison, not necessarily cannected with the incident.
2 Lets talk a little bit about training.
Could you describe the training program here for health physics and chem techs?
l Si ZEITER:
Well we're, it seems to me we're all awful understaffed for the Ql
/
work we do, and there was just no time to send peeple to training.
They could not spare the people. The work had to be done and I'd say two years 81 ago they would send us.
We have in our system a one week out of 5 or 6 9,1 that they call training, and it was set up to be training, and orginally we did have training, but it really was a math course if I remember right.
11{
l Now and then we would have training that would be job related, like, v t
12l training one day for the SAM II kits, how to operate them.
But basically, 13!
we didn't get too much training for the job, not as much as I thought.
14i i
Unit 2 came into perspective a couple of years ago, you know, started up, 15i i
and we didn't get very much training for the monitors. That was all stuff 16i you had to learn yourself, by yourself, and there was a lot of other stuff, 17!
1 i
you know, we just didn't have the time to be trained.
They could not spare 18i three guys on dayshift, two or three or four guys on each of our shifts, to 19l go to training.
When you're doing HP and chemistry and deconing, TLDs, 20i j
environmental runs, I don't think that we have enough people, that's my 21!
opinion.
I 23)
YUHAS:
Due to the number on the staff, was it necessary for the chem or 24j the HP to work a lot of overtime?
25i k
Oh7
- ) d b U/
UU I
I i
54 1
ZEITER:
Oh, we got a fair amount of overtime.
I'd say a lot of overtime.
3; i
Well f course during outages we could work 10 or 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br /> a day, seven 2j days a week.
And a lot of times we would ask if we could work our own 3
scheduled days.
q 5l YUHAS:
Was this overtime necessary to accomplish just the routine required 6
test and inspections, and additional coverage for outage requirements?
8l ZEITER:
Yeah, the--we--it was required for routine work and it was required 9
during an outage because of the extra requirements, you know, an outage I
requires.
11l 121 YUHAS:
Do you do much HP surveying, dose rate surveying that sort of thing?
14i 15!
ZEITER:
Yeah, I, we have a list of surveys we do on, we've doing for the 16i i
last year and a half, HP surveys that we do on the 11 to 7 shifts.
17l i
18f YUHAS:
Ok.
19!
20 ZEITER:
Certain ones, you know, we have a schedule that all the RWD areas 21; in the Auxiliary Building are surveyed at least once a week.
22 23 YUHAS:
Is there a, instruments available for you to run these surveys...
24 25!
t i
C07 261 i
l I
I f
55 l
lj ZEITER:
Yes.
i 2t l
YUHAS:
In other words, is it the appropriate type of instrument?
3 4:
5l ZEITER:
Yes, there is the instrument there we can use.
i 61 YUHAS:
00 you know of any problems with availability of calibrated instru-men s?
8 4
9' e
ere was ur nc u ages, ey e short During W s last 10f outage they had a lot of instruments that were just sitting in the instru-ment shop needing to be fixed.
I think it wa: 20 some of them, you know, during those normal hours you don't really use that many instruments because, you know, you got a couple here and there.
Sometimes during daylight hours 15:
when you had a lot of HP work on, you might have to look for an instrument, 1
but you cculd always get one, but there weren't near as many there as we owned.
You know, you shouldn't really have to look too far for an instrument.
I Its, if you've got 15 broke down and you've got four in the lab, what does 181 l
that tell you, you know.
You've got the instruments here, just not working.
19!
20!
l YUHAS:
Was it a very rare instance where you could have 15 broke down and 21!
4 operable?
22I I
23' ZEITER:
Well no, I don't think it happened all that often.
I remember 24l during the last refueling outage we had a lot of, I'd say 15 or 20 some 25}
r i
f n P, 7 747 L./
- UL I
l
i.
l l
56 1,
instruments, that were in hot instrument or the instrument shop, not the 2
hot instrument shop, that needed repair.
3 4l YUHAS:
At the time of the incident in the first few days, were there 5l en ugh high-range, dose-rate instruments available for use of the people i
6 entering these areas who could have an instrument with them?
i 7
8 i
9l
""^
10 11 ZEITER:
Not till Rad Services brought their instruments in did wE have enough instruments.
141 YUHAS:
Do you remember when rad services arrived on site with instruments?
16i I
ZEITER:
I'd say it was in, I don't remember what day, but I would say it 17l was 2 days after the accident.
18f 19 YUHAS:
How many teletectors do you normally have available for use?
21l ZEITER:
Normally, that, you mean that we own, or around?
23 YUHAS:
Around.
24 25l i
i C57 263 u
L i
l 57 ZEITER:
...and operable?
1, l
2i i
YUHAS: Operable.
3 4l r
ZEITER:
I'd say around 4.
Si I
6{
YUHAS:
How many did you have available on the 28th when the incident 7
occurred?
ZEITER:
I'd say around 3 or 4.
i 10l 111 I
YUHAS:
Has it been your experience that these instruments are known to 12l fail frequently in use?
i 14!
15l ZEITER:
Not teletectors, if you don't bang on them they usually don't 4
fail.
I don't--I never had tuo much trouble with them failing...
17l YUHAS: Ok.
18!
19i ZEITER:
It's just, you know, they couldn't take to being banged around, 201 but I don't remember having too many of them fail.
I usually could rely i
21l on, you know, felt pretty secure with, a teletector.
22 t
23 YUHAS:
Did you participate in calibration of radiation survey instruments?
24l 25j C57 264 a
hL '
l.
58 ZEITER:
Yes, we calibrated them.
7 2'
YUHAS:
O k.
Could you describe now a teletector was calibrated? What 3
4l source was used and what range...?
5 ZEITER: Well, it was the high range calibrator was used on the 1000 rem 6
and the 50 rem scales.
The small CS-137 source, the low range calibrator 7
was used to calibrate the 50 mR, 2 mR and the 2r. ranges.
g 9'
YUHAS:
What source is used in the high range calibrator?
I 11!
l ZEITER:
The high range is, I think that's cesium too, but I maybe wrong, I 12!
really can't recall.
i 14-YUHAS:
When you performed calibrations, were the instruments usually on, lo,;
or did they re: quire adjustment to bring them within the acceptable tolerance?
16' 17l ZEITER:
Some of them, you could usually find them half and half.
Some of 18f them required calibration-you'd have to adjust them.
Some of them didn't.
19f I
The E520, usually a lot of them didn't.
Teletectors, a lot of times they 20:
did require that you adjusted them.
21 22i 23 Was it usually that the teletectors were a balance between those YUHAS:
that read high and those that read low?
24 25l
.i 857 265 t
a
l.
I l
{
59 i
if ZEITER:
I'd say they were about the same, roughly a balance between the 2l ones that you, I would say that t.ere wasn't a teletector you picked up 3
that at least one range you had to calibrate.
You know, you might find one 4
that had 2 maybe 3 ranges that were good, 2 ranges you had to adjust.
But 5l in ot many of them could you pick up and every one was a right-on.
An 6
E520 you could, but then again that's a lower range instrument, too.
7 YUHAS:
On the teletector, what was the highest dose-rate that you checked 8
the calibration at?
g i
101 f
ZEITER:
200, and I think it decayed off to right now, 230 some rems.
I 12; YUHAS:
That was the hightest point you checked it?
14!
ZEITER:
Um Um.
15!
16i YUHAS:
Which was roughly about 1/3 the scale?
171 l
1Sf l
ZEITER:
Right, that'.s the higMst or high range calibrator, that's the 191 highest that we go...
20,!
l 21l YUHAS:
O k.
22l
\\
23{
l ZEITER:
Without any, we stick it in, exposure it to the full strength of 241 l
the source without no shielding and you adjust it, you know, the low pot in 25[
l the, it's the end of the probe, the teletector probe.
uaes,,66 j
i i
l 60 llj YUHAS: What tubes are used in the E520 as far as the detection tube?
i 2!
3 ZEITER:
GM tubes.
4 5l YUHAS:
Do you know the model?
I 61 ZEITER:
The model?
7 8
YUHAS:
Is it an HP-177 with a 1085 or 10558, or something like that?
g l
101 ZEITER:
It's the, I think it's the HP-210, no wait a minute...
12 13j YUHAS:
It's been out of circular, that's the pancake....
I 14!
ZEITER:
Yeah, that's the pancake probe, I really don't know, there's a lot 15 of them.
16i i
17 YUHAS:
Ok, and that's checked against the cesium source?
i 19l ZEITER:
Right, um um, that's checked with tne cesium 137 source.
21, YUHAS:
Is that instrument checked against the beta source?
22 23 ZEITER:
Uh Um.
24 25!
l cr'7 767 va
{
l 61 l
gj YUHAS:
Ok, so there is no beta correction factor to get millirad per hour?
2!
l 3'
ZEITER:
No, no, not for the 520, there is for the R02s.
4l 5(1 WHAS:
Ok. What beta source is used to check the R02?
6l ZEITER:
Uh, I don't know what the source is, what is that?
I really 7
f rget it.
I know which one it is. We do use it, and we do an open and 8
closed, and you come out with your beta correction.
I forget what isotope g
the source is.
11!
i YUHAS:
O k.
Have you received a whole body count or given a urine analysis
,2 sample since the incident?
131 l
14:
i ZEITER:
Yes, I received one.
A whole body count.
Uh, it was sort of my 15j own fault, because I was scheduled before I could get down there being on l
16i the backshift, and I did--I gave one urine analysis.
IS(
YUHAS:
During the course of the incident, was there any question in your mind as to who you should be taking orders from?
20 21 ZEITER:
Yes. That's one big deal.
Everybody was like trying to run the 22 operation, you know, it. C,916 seem.
I mean, I take my cirect orders from 23 the HP foreman.
Di?, p know, as for the whole operation, it seems like 24 there's too many <wople uying to run the place and you really, you know, 25{
i I
i o;7 '68 u.
4
F-I o
62 I
gj orders were coming from all directions.
Directives was coming from all directions.
You know, a lot of times they would coincide, conflict.
You 2
know, it was like a lot of confusion.
Here you have Met Ed, and you have 3
GPU, and you have the NRC, and have a little bit of everybody running the 4!
pera n.
was m e mass confusion.
5 6-YUHAS:
Could you describe 'for me what t.he words breathing zone air sample 7
mean?
g 91 I
ZEITER:
Breathing zone air sample.
I don't know what the definition of it 10l is.
Really, I've never used it too much on the job, not that expression.
11!
l 12 YUHAS: When you take an air sample, what device do you normally use?
I 14!
ZEITER:
The Radecto air sampler.
It's a portable model where you can put 151 a charcoal or a particulate air sampler.
Put a sample in it and take it to i
164 i
different areas where you want to take you air sample and run it around 17l l
five minutes, or ratner five SCFM for three minutes we'd run it.
,18 191 YUHAS:
If the man is working in th':, let's say the primary sample lab,
,l 20' running analysis on the reactor coolant, do you routinely collect air 21 i
samples in there?
22 23 ZEITER:
No, we don't. No. We have a monitor back in the new sampling room 24 that you know, the RMA12.
25 e c 7
?_. 6 9 -
s I
f f
l 63 l
yj YUHAS:
That's just for when the sample's collected, though.
We're not y
thinking as to like when you're running the borons and the...
2 3l ZEITER: 'We don't take air samples, no.
Not everyday.
Never did.
4 5!
i YUHAS:
Prior to the incident, did you have available what's the' lapel air 61 i
sampler?
7 8
ZEITER:
No, I never even heard of a lapel until the accident.
I 10l YUHAS:
OK.
11l i
12 ZEITER:
I'm gonna be frank with you.
14!
YUHAS:
That's eight.
That's what we want.
15i 16 l
ZEITER:
I never, I never even heard of it.
17 18i l
_YUHAS:
OK.
Did you, prior to the incident, ever collect tritium in air 191 for workers breathing?
In other words, when you made the containment 20 entries to the reactor power.
21, 22I I
ZEITER:
Yea, we did.
We did that once a day on the 11 to 7 shift.
We did 23 a, we pulled a tritium off the reactor building sampler, e gas, a particulate, 24l and then the iodine.
And that was required before anybody could go in 25!
4
-l containment.
i 357 270 (2
r I
64 YUHAS:
OK.
Now this sample that you talked about was collected off of 7
HPR227, right?
2 3
ZEITER:
Right.
4 5'
YUHAS:
Do you know what the sample point for that is? Where that sample 6
suction originates?
7 a!
ZEITER:
No.
What do you mean, which floor in the reactor say?
It a g
common header.
It's supposed to be a common suction to draw representative i
101 11;!
sample from the whole, all the areas in there, but, I really don't, can't think of, where exactly it comes out of the reactor, at what location you 12!
mean.
I really don't know.
13 14; l
YUHAS:
OK.
Let's assume the that sample takes a suction about two thirds 15i l
of the way up the dome off the top, and it runs through several hundred 16i 17l feet of pipe before it gets there.
Now, what individuals entered the reactor building to, say, look at leaks of the reactor when the reactor's 18(
l at power--if they're down on the, say, 305 elevation walking around looking 191 i
for leaks, is that HPR227 representative of the air that the workers might 20I be breathing?
i 21f 22l ZEITER:
I was told it was, in the whole building.
Now whether, you know, 23 I haven't heard, when I say heard it was it's just, uh, rumor, not rumor, 24 it's just worded.
I might ask somebody and they say, well, that's a repre-
- 't C57 271
'f
65 i
lj sentative sample of the whole building, and that's the only thing I know 2
I don't remember seeing it in a book or seeing it in the manual or, o f.
i 3
but, I was under the impression that when you pulled 227 that was a good sample of the whole building.
4 5l YUHAS: Was it a rare occasion to find either the particulate or the charcoal 6
filter damp when you changed those filters out at the HPR227?
7 8
ZEITER:
g If I remember right, uh, I don't recall too many remember it I
being.
Maybe once or twice it might have been wet, but mostly it was dry, i
101 most of the filters were dry, that I--I'd say 99% of the time I drew a 11:
sampler they were dry.
RMA2 now had had a water problem which is Unit 1 reactor sampler.
They had a condensation problem sometime, but they took l
care of that.
Unit 2, most of the time they were dry samples that I can 14!
remember.
15i 16}
YUHAS:
Are you aware of any problems that were created due to poor design 17l l
or not building the plant in accordance with the original design criteria 18!
that could have complicated the situation as a result of this incident?
191 20i ZEITER:
You mean something, you mean something that was designed on the plant that would have helped that caused it.
No, not off hand.
I don't 22f really know of any design things, problems that I know of.
We're really 23 not into that part of it.
24 25 f
l C37 272 i
f I
66 i
YUHAS: ~ OK.
I'm thinking more about, for instance, the primary sample y
lines, what effect does a long run of 3/8" tubing have when it's unshielded 2
and it goes from Unit 2 over to Unit 1? Does that cause any problems?
3 4!
ZEITER:
Not under normal operations.
5 6
YUHAS: OK.
But under these conditions?
7 8
ZEITER:
Oh, definitely.
Right now, under these conditions you had a, you g
got lines reading 50 R coming from Unit 2.
They hadn't been shielded.
I They have to be shielded, and every time you go into Unit 1 Aux. Building, 11!
i you running under them.
Right now, they haven't been shielded but you 12l won't pick up too much radiation from them unless you have stay, get, crawl 13 i
up close to them but from the long run it is a problem.
I thing they 14{
should have put a Unit 2 primary chem lab and sampled the room in Unit 2, 15,;
you know, instead of running over to Unit 1.
16i 17 YUHAS:
A't this time I'd like to give you the opportunity to bring forth ISj any comments, criticism, either complimentary or negative about the way the 19t l
incident was handled or ways that could be improved.
20' l
21 ZEITER:
I think the incident could have been handled putting one set of 22 people in charge and that's it.
I think that our HP department, I think 23 it's understaffed, I think the training's not that good.
Because they're 241 understaffed, I think my training was lousy. What I picked up was mostly 25 l
I 057 273 i
{
67 y
on the job.
I think that to give good HP coverage, you're going to have to 2
have more people.
I don't think we were taking as many air samples as we should have.
I think during, uh--after, like, after this Unit 1 outage the 3
4, reactor building, we had air problems during that outage and we had to wear i
respirators more so than the year before, and it just seems like the air S
activity in the reactor building in Unit 1, that is, would build up from 6l year after year. And nobody did any attempt to decon it.
And next year, 7
r the next refueling, for Unit 1 it will only be worse.
There will be 8
more respirators worn, at more times.
I think they ought to make some t
g effort to decon the reactor building in certain areas and the Aux. Building.
I think they let their contamination problems go too long.
I remember last year, they had us in on double-time days mopping floors in the Aux. Building.
We were cleaning areas up, but then that just like faded away and nobody worried about.
You have areas in the Aux. Building during normal operations 14I 15l that were really well in excess of 100,000 dpm and nobody seemed to care.
1 You know, they'd make an attempt now and them to clean an area but, you 16i know, they just didn't.
And it was partly the techs and the partly the foremen.
They just would seem to be content to leave it the way it was.
I 18(
don't think enough air samples were taken for different jobs during normal 19l operations that should have been.
You send the guys in an area, uh, you 20l know, might have 2 or 3 hundred thousand dpm.
Normally, we did put them in 21 a respirator, but we didn't take an air sample during the time they were 22 there, you know.
I think Operations has too much pull when it comes to HP.
23 I think they get their own way, and slowly it's reverting back to that way 24 now again.
After the accident, it did start to show up that Operations 25i I
l t
j 057 274
l f
68 1
yl didn't run HP, but now slowly it seems to be reverting back to the old way.
2
- That Operations really gets what they want, and I think, I don't really I
3 mean to say that they get what they want but I think they, uh, they can finagle HP to their liking.
I 've seen some of the shift foremen, and--
4 especially during the outage, I've seen them do some things that have sure 5
been totally against the rules.
I've seen, I know incidences when a shift 6l foreman went down drained an evaporator bottom on the floor, and then just 7
hosed it down the drain without an RWP.
8 9l i
YUHAS:
Do you know who that was?
101 11}
l ZEITER:
I don't remember who did it, but I think it was Terry Crouse.
13 YUHAS:
For the record, where does that drain go to?
15j ZEITER:
To the Aux. Building itself.
17l l
YUHAS:
So, this is not an unconditional release point, its sampled to get 18i from there, is that right?
19i 201 ZEITER:
Oh, yes, it's not, you mean to the river?
21j t
22' YUHAS:
Yea, it did not go to the environment?
23 24{
i 25l C57 275 I,
l
r 69 ZEITER:
ll No, no, oh, no, it didn't go to the environment.
But I mean he, y u know, he should've had an RWP and he should--I don't think he should 2
have been able to do it.
3 4
YUHAS:
3!'
Do you know the motivation for doing something like that?
I 61 ZEITER:
The motivation?
7ll 8
YUHAS:
Why he would have done that?
9l
[
101 l
ZEITER:
I think they had to change of diaphragm on the valve on the suction 11l l
line.
12{
l 131 YUHAS:
Rather than process the concentrated waste, he figured it was 14!
quicker just to dump it on the floor?
1 15 16l ZEITER:
Oh, yea.
He had to drain the tank to do the job.
171 1
18 YUHAS:
Did he get crapped up doing that?
19!
20l l
ZEITER:
No.
But about three days later Dave Kemble did, because the tank 21l j
wasn't drained, and the RC evaporator, and he was sent to change the very 22 same diaphragm on the suction valve, or the valve on the suction line, and 23 f
the tank was supposed to be isolated.
Well, you couldn't isolate the tank 2 41 l
from the valve.
So in other words, to make it safe, you've got to drain 25!
t O ", ^7
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70 1l the 'ank.
It wasn't drained and he got spritzed.
Now, I don' t think he 2
even had a wet suit on, but I don't know how he got contaminated, but he 3j g t highly contaminated, plus the water was warm temperature wise.
I 4I YU.fAS: Was this guy an operator?
5 l
6!
ZEITER:
No, he was maintenance.
7 8
YUHAS: Was he under an RWP?
9l 10 ZEITER:
Oh, yes.
He was under an RWP then.
The instance I referred to before was during the first two or three days of the, I'd say two days of 12.
the accident, where people just went in the Unit 1 Aux. Building and just l
went down and went in, because, you know, the concern was, was away from 141 that with all the other things going on.
16 YUHAS:
Is this incident with Mr. Crouse, did this happen the first couple 17!
days of the accident?
18!
19l ZEITER:
Yes, uh huh.
It happened about three or four times.
20 21; YUHAS:
The same individual?
22 23 ZEITER:
I don't know but he just told me that it happened.
I made out an 24l RWP, was making it out for Dave Kemble, and he said the shift foreman had 25 i
e ~, 7
") 7 7 l
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71 i
e lj done it three or four times earlier that week and, you know, they just 2l drain it on the floor and hosed it down, you know, which wasn't good, you 3
know, that's not good practice.
I hate to fink on anybody's name; I don't 4;
really want to do that.
5 YUHAS:
Well, it's important for the health and safety of all the workers 6l 1
7 at the plant.
8 gl ZEITER:
It's not good practice.
i 101 if YUHAS:
That's right.
12 ZEITER:
But I realize HP cannot, shouldn't be able to stop jobs just at their whim, but they should have a little power to, if they really think 14!
15;!
that they're not getting proper coverage, or people going in an area aren't getting proper protection, to be able to stop a job.
And normal operation, 16; 17l normal circumstances, you could not do that, because Operations would I
finagle through our supervisor and they would get there own way, you know.
181 Just like in Unit 2 before the accident, they had a neutron problem in the 19l reactor building, and we were getting really high neutron dose rates up 20j around the 0 ring, 3rd floor and the bottom floor, and they would just send 2 11 22l us in there, you know, and operators would look for laaks and stuff and, ycu know, I just don't think we should have been in there during when they're running at 100% power.
24l 25j l
C37 278
I l
t i
73 I
ZEITER:
Uh huh.
1 1
I 2
YUHAS:
Who was the shift supervisor that was with you?
3l I
4l ZEITER:
Bill Zewe.
5 i
6l YUHAS:
Did you tell Mr. Zewe that you did not know the neutron dose rate 7
inside the secondary shield?
8 91, I
ZEITER:
No, I did not tell him that.
No, I didn't mention nothing to him.
10l l
11!
YUHAS:
Did he have an instrument in his hands when he went in?
12l 13f
{
ZEITER: Well, what he had, he had an instrument, the gamma meter.
15l YUHAS:
OK, did he know the m between the neutron and the gamma?
i 17!
ZEITER:
No.
18j 191 YUHAS:
Did he have any idea wiiat the neutron rumbers were inside there?
201 1
21l ZEITER:
No.
23 YUHAS:
Was he wearing something capat'e cr measuring neutron dose?
24 25l no 080 GJl i
)
)
74 l
ZEITER:
Neutron TLD.
1 I
2!
3 YUHAS:
Neutron TLD, OK.
4{
l Sj ZEITER:
Which was--we did have a requirement for neutron TLD.
61 YUHAS:
And about how long was he in there?
7 8
ZEITER:
Oh, he would run in and run out.
He wouldn't stay in there too g
10l 1 ng.
I'd say thirty seconds, 45 seconds.
11{
iy YUHAS: We're going have to break.
I 13l SINCLAIR:
We're going to have to change the second tape.
The time is 9:04 a.m.
15i 16i j
SINCLAIR:
The time is 9:06 and we are continuing the interview with Mr.
17:
Zeiter.
18i 19{
YUHAS: We were, we were just discussing the entry of the shift supervisor 20 into the loop arez.s, inside the secondary shield without a neutron survey I'
meter, and to the best of your knowledge, without any knowledge of what the 22l neutron dose rate was inside the areas when the plant was 100% power.
- Did, 23 uh--are you aware of any instances, other this one in which you and Mr.
24l l
Zewe were involved in, occurring with say other chem HP techs?
25!
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=
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I 75 1l ZEITER:
There was one time that he went in with Tom Davis, said he went 2
the lower D ring on the lower level, and I don't know how long he spent in there.
But I think it was entirely too long, too long for the dose rates, 3
to look for leaks.
He would go in the hot areas himself.
In other words, 4
5 he didn't drag us in.
He was willing to take the load on himself.
He had 6
us survey, and he'd go in and look for leaks, he didn't overexpose us and he really didn't overexpose himself for his weekly limit of gamma.
I don't 7
know how the results from his neutron TLD came out.
It seemed ridiculous, g
some of the areas they we.it in, for high radiation for the job they had to g
do.
I know they had to 30 in there and look for leaks.
If they think they g
I had a leak, they had to try a,d find it someway.
But I think they wer' too quick to jump into an area wittaut really knowing what they're going to 121 receive.
t 14I YUHAS:
When these individuals would go inside the secondary shield, into 15l 16l; the loop areas to look for leaks, would they be wearing respiratory protec-i tive devices?
17 18{
ZEITER:
Not if they're reactor building entry form didn't allow it.
Most 19f l
of the time, they weren't, because the reactor building entry form would 20 say that it wasn't required for the particulate and the, you know, xenon gas doesn't require it.
Most of the time, they didn't wear it.
22 23 YUHAS:
When they went into the lower level, for instance, in the reactor 24 building, how would they know what the localized airborne concentration i
-25 l
j would be in the ama that they're looking for the leak?
L C57 '82 1,
l
r I
t 76 i
y{
ZEITER:
It all went off, they would just use their reactor building entry 2
f rm, and that's what they would wear.
3 4.
YUHAS:
So the only air sample that was taken was taken from HPR227?
5 ZEITER:
That's correct.
6,1 7
YUHAS:
And you or any other tech did not collect a localized air sample 8
where these individuals were looking for the leak?
10 I
ZEITER:
No.
lli 12; I
YUHAS:
And the individual did not wear lapel air samplers?
13l 14!
l ZEITER:
No.
15; 1Si YUHAS:
...to collect air that he was breathing as he went into these 17 i
various components?
18l 1
19l ZEITER:
No.
20' l
21!
YUHAS:
OK.
Did these individuals wear beta goggles when they were in 22 looking for leaks?
)
23 24 I
25!
i 1
O s, 7 7 0 )7 0.'
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q 77 1
ZEITER:
Yes.
We wore goggles because of xenon.
2:
YUHAS:
OK.
Was xenon typically high in the reactor containment?
3l 4 ;
~4 ZEITER:
Well, it was e
, that's Unit 1.
It wasn't ths.t high in Unit 2 5 :
~4 yet; it didn't get that high yet.
But in Unit 1 it was e 6
7' YUHAS:
OK.
The incident that you were just relating, was this Unit 1 or 8
Unit 2?
g 10 ZEITER:
Unit 2.
i ut YUHAS:
And about how long ago?
141 f
ZEITER:
I'd say, oh, the time--it was around December.
15i 16l YUHAS:
OK.
This is the entry with Mr. Zewe?
17l:
i ZEITER:
Uh huh.
18f 19l l
YUHAS:
OK.
All right, let's move on to a different topic.
If there's
.20!
anything else, you were still just generally talking comments you have.
21 22 ZEITER:
I just think that HP should have a little more say in what goes on, and they should be able to stop a job that they feel is not adequately 24.
protected, without having somebody go over their heads and telling us to do 25 l
it anyway.
i l
l l
G57 284 i
i t
C f
78 11 YUHAS:
Let me ask you a question, flat out.
Have you been told you do not
.j 2l have the authority to stop a job?
l 31 I
4; ZEITER:
No, I was never told that.
Si I
6i YUHAS:
In situations like the one you just described, where an individual 7l was entering a high neutron dose rate area without a dose rate instrument, 8
did you tell the individual you should not go in there without a neutron dose rate instrument?
g 10 ZEITER:
No.
I didn't.
lli 12-.
YUHAS:
Why not?
13 14 e
ecause, m e I say, we had a neukon M s here, but we 15 were never really pressed neutron radiation, or we never did any really 6
routine surveys for neutron.
And it was just some of the people, it seemed 17!
like they didn't worry about it that much, you know.
They knew it was 18{
19:
there, but they really didn't take like--see we do, we survey both reactor buildings for gamma every week, right?
--on Unit 1. and that's at, there, a hundred percent power.
You know, nobody's required the neutron--was just sort of a practice that now and then they'd get in and take it.
In other words, when we found out we did have high levels from that neutron shield being evaporated you know we did find out from a routine survey.
But 25;i normally, neutron-you know--it wasn't taken like gammas any in the building.
I ony
,m85 us i
I 79 1
YUHAS:
Let me ask you a question, you say you do a weekly survey inside 2
the reactor containment building at 100 percent power?
3 4
ZEITER:
That's right.
Every week.
l 5
l YUHAS:
And this is just for routine purposes?
6 7
ZEITER:
Just routine purposes.
8 9
YUHAS:
How much exposure is incurred, both gamma and neutrons, to run this 10 survey?
12; ZEITER:
Ah, I'd say, well, see, we never get results from our neutron.
Ah, I mean, ah, I don't remember.
We get results from the TLD's, but I 14!
guess it's added on their gamma, but I really don't know.
It's, I'd say
]
around, roughly, let me think, I'd say around 100mr.
17j YUHAS:
Is this for each individual?
18f 19 ZEITER:
Right. YUHAS:
And how many individuals make that survey?
20lj 21 ZEITER:
Two.
22 23 YUHAS:
Ok. ' So every week you're taking like 200 millirem total from making surveys.
25l i
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cu 386 1.
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80 i
l 1;
ZEITER:
Well, yea, somebody is.
You know, I don't get stuck with it every 2
week.
l 3t 4
YUHAS:
No, I'm just talking in man-rem.
And that's of gamma and you don't 5'
know what the neutron level came out to be.
Si ZEITER:
Well, the neutron numbers are, for the last two months, were 7
8 counted on the TLD a-d added to our exposure.
But before that when we had film badges they sent 'em out, you know.
g 10 YUHAS:
And this had been going on for years?
21, 1
12l ZEITER:
Sure.
Up until, you know, I'd guess it was the end of last year, really, that the neutron TLD's were, you know, implemented--it was just 13l neutron film badge.
Then at the end of the month they'd be sent out with, you know, to be counted and I never knew the results.
I don't think the 15;j 17j film badge is supposed to be really any good.
I don' t think it's worth it, f
really.
18l 19l YUHAS:
Whc evaluartes the neutron TLD's?
20 21!
ZEITER: Well the techs count them and they're fed into a computer, and 22 l
then the dose is added to, you know, your quarterly total, you know. But I 23 was told by the guy, Fred Huwe, he ran the TLD department, that neutron wa; 24l added with gamma.
You know, it was--they were both added together for your 25{
t exposure, you know.
l c;7 087 os m
i
I i
(
72 i
I YUHAS:
Were you told to enter areas where neutron dose rats was in excess lj g!
of the capability of the PNR4 instrument to measure the dose rate?
3 4j ZEITER:
No.
I wasn't really told to do that, but I've seen Operations 5
shift supervisors tell me to stand outside an area where they would run in.
6l Now at the time we only had a gamma meter, you know.
We only had a tele-7 tector, and he would run in the secondary shielding right near the steam 8
generator and look for leaks and come running back out and at the time we really didn't know that we had--what the neutron was.
We knew what previous g
10f surveys was, but we didn't have a meter with us.
And the neutron was h
something around here.
Let me say that up until two months before the I
accident, nobody seemed to care about neutrons.
I mean, we knew it was there, we had our PNR4s, but, you know, no surveys routinely were done for g
l neutrons that often in the reactor building.
But you know it was something, we know it was there but it's no big deal.
Nobody really gave it much concern, the supervisor on down to the techs, and it wasn't a good situation.
Now we had an investigation before the accident, I think Karl Plumlee was 17!
in on that and the water shield leaked in the Unit, or was drained in the 18(
Unit 2 reactor building, and that's why all this high neutron dose was up 19j there and we did take readings that were in excess of 5 Rem, when the guy 20f l
took the re ding of that inside of 0 ring.
21l 22 YUHAS:
Let me ask you specifics.
Were you involved in the incident where the shift supervisor told you to wait outside the secondary shield while he 24 went in?
25j t
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81 l
i 1.;
YUHAS:
On your, on your computer printout does it read so many millirem of 2
neutrons, and so many millirem of gamma and then the total quarterly, the i
3j sum of the two?
4}
ZEITER:
No.
5 The quarter is supposed to be the sum of the two, but I d n't--I don't think it reads out in neutrons, like a specific column for 6!
it.
But I was told it was supposed to be the total of the two combined,
,t
/
you know.
9 YUHAS:
Do you know the ratio of the neutron to gamma in the areas that you 10f normally ran surveys?
11l l
12; I
ZEITER:
I'd say it's almost, well, in Unit 2 when they had that shield 131 l
problem, I'd say some areas, 2 to 1 neutron.
14!
15 l
16; This is outside the secondary shield, right?
YUHAS:
l i
171 ZEITER:
I'd even <ay outside, yean.
l 18i i
191 YUHAS:
Ok.
And did your--based on your pocket dosimeter reading, when you 20f looked at your exposure printout, did the numbers that appeared on the l
211 I
printout appear to reflect what you would assume you would have received, 22 both neutron and gamma?
23 24 l
25!
C57 288 F
a i
82 i
I 1l ZEITER:
You mean on the TLD?
In the printout?
2!
l 3j YUHAS:
Right.
t 41 gf ZEITER:
Yea, I think it would.
I really do, but you know I really didn't Check on any specific incident.
g i
7!
l l
YUHAS:
Ok.
Do you have any other comments that you feel that should be 8l brought forward at this time?
g 10l ZEITER:
No.
11; i
i 12!
l YUHAS:
I have one other question.
The question is, do you feel that there 13l is any reason to believe or to suspect that any individual may have contri-14!
buted to, precipitated, or aggravated the incidents that occurred on March 15; 28th? Deliberately.
16i 17!
ZEITER:
I don't know of any, no.
18i 19f
_YUHAS:
Ok.
20l l
21l ZEITER:
No, I don't know.
I wouldn't know.
I don't know of anybody who 22 would have sa'd they would have wanted to do even the, ah, wanna do some-23 thing like that to cause a--to mainly, say, leave a valve closed or some-24 '
thing.
No, I don't know of anybody.
25 I
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u 1 7, 700 0
4 c07
f In c.
83
{
YUHAS:
O k.
Fine.
I'd like to thank you on behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for taking two hours after working all night, and sitting here in this cold trailer shivering.
4i
~
,_ i ZEITER:
Yea, I know a lot of my answers seemed vague, but you know, I 3!
6l didn't really want to rat on anybody, but I do think there's a problem, you 1
know, with Operations and HP.
I think Operations has too much power in some areas, and I think HP should be run, like, with an iron hand and there should be no fluctuations.
You know, but see you can, you can, you have shift foremen and shift supervisors who they just, you know, they got to 10(
11!.
get the job done and if you're in the way, it's too bad, you know, we're gonna get it dcne. Whether they got to beg, borrow, cheat, or steal.
I 12l mean, you just can't, you can't really run a plant like that, you know, and 13 protect people.
I 15!
SINCLAIR:
John Sinclair, the interview with Mr. Zeiter is concluding at 16i j
9:18am, March 5, 1979.
(typist:
Mr. Sinclair means May 5, 1979, I believe) 17!
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18!
I 19l 20!
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22!
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