ML19249B020
| ML19249B020 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 05/24/1979 |
| From: | Lionarons J METROPOLITAN EDISON CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 7908290195 | |
| Download: ML19249B020 (46) | |
Text
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 1
In the Matter of:
2 IE TMI INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW 3
of Mr. John Kevin Lionarons Auxiliary Operator Aid 4
5 6
7 8
Trailer #203 9
NRC Investigation Site TMI Nuclear Power Plant 10, Middletown, Pennsylvania l
11 May 24,1979 12 (Date of Interview) 13 July 4,1979 (Date Transcript Typed) 258 15 (Tape Number (s))
16 17 18 19 y
20 O-21 NRC PERSONNEL:
22 Mr. Darwin Hunter
]
23l Mr. Mark E. Resner i
9"9 135 24) 25 f
a i
1 RESNER: The following is an interview of Mr. John Kevin Lionarons.
2 Mr. Lionarons is employed at the Three Mile Island facility by Metropolitan 3
Edison Company.
His job title is Auxiliary Operator Aid.
The present 4
time is 11:22 a.m. eastern daylight time.
Today's date is May 24, 5
1979.
The location of this interview is trailer 203; it's located 6
just outside the south gate of the Three Mile Island facility.
Individuals 7
present representing the Nuclear Regulatory Commission at this interview 8
are:
Mr. Dorwin Hunter.
Mr. Hunter is an Inspection Specialist.
He g
is temporarily assigned to Region III with the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
Monitoring this interview is Mark E. Resner.
I am an 10 I
11 investigator with the Office of Inspector and Auditor, Headquarters, g
the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
Prior to tape this interview, 13 Mr. Li nar ns was given a two page document which explained the purpose, scope and the authority which the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has y
been given by Congress to conduct this investigation.
In addition, it 5
16l apprised Mr. Lionarons, that he is entitled to a representative of his choice to be present during the interview if he should want one.
g
, it apprised to him that in no way is he compelled to talk to us, 18(
I if he does not want to.
At this time I'll ask Mr. Lionarons if he 191 i
20 would give us a brief resume of his educational and job experience as related to the job that he is now performing (and note for the record that when we refer to Mr. Lionarons, we'll be calling him Kevin). I assume that's what he prefers to be called.
Mr. Lionarons.
24
" 9 136 25 l
I l
i 2
1 LIONARONS:
My name is John Kevin Lionarons.
I attended school through 2
the 12th grade.
Became employed by Metropolitan Edison in February 3
'74 at the entry level utility 8 worker.
I bid through the mode of 4.
progression into the UC&M department as an apprentice electrician.
I 5
was laid off in October 74 for approximately a year and a half.
I 6
came back at that time as a C operator, which I acquired by taking a 7
written exam issued by Metropolitan Edison Company.
And ag:in, through 8
the mode, I proceeded to go from an Auxiliary Operator C to 8 and then g
to an Auxiliary A Operator which I am now.
10 RESNER:
Alright.
Thank you very much, Kevin.
At this time, Mr. Hunter 11 12 has some questions for you.
13 HUNTER:
Kevin, I would like to cover two areas and let's take the --
15l the first area will be concerning surveillance procedure on the motor 16l driven emergency feedwater system performed on the 26th of March 1979.
And it's my understanding that you were involved in performing that g
surveillance procedure, is that correct?
g 19 LIONARONS:
That's correct.
21 HUNTER:
Okay.
I would like to get you to take us through the surveil-lance procedure, if you will. Particularly indicating the procedure, the sheets that you were given the morning of the 26th, and if you can give us some times when you started the surveillance, when you finished 0^9 137
Y 3
1 the surveillance, and then I'll try to ask some specific questions 2
concerning this surveillance procedure.
I have given Kevin to look at 3
the procedure 2303 and 27 A and B with rad 4, which is the procedure 4
which was performed on that day.
Kevin you might indicate what the 5
fore -- who gives you the procedure, the control room or the foreman, 6
and sort of walk through it.
In that manner, you'll be able to hopefully 7
recall pretty close to exactly how you did the procedure that day.
8 LIONARONS:
Okay.
I was notified by the on shift CR0 that I was going g
to perform the surveillance on the motor driven fee' emps.
Okay.
At 10 3
that time I come to the control room and I'm handed the procedure, which consisted of basically what I'm handed here, which is the entire procedure.
At that time you get to look through the purpose and the 13 frequency of the modes; the limits and cautions; the location of the systems; the equipment required; and then start running the procedure.
5 I would like to point out one thing that we do read all this but this procedure here has been done many times on
, so I understood.
I understand what's going on, more'so then if it was the first time that I've ever seen it.
19 20 HUNTER:
Right I understand that.
So you went through the initial conditions, the equipment required, and some of the equipment as I understand it is already installed, and you may have gotten a stop watch or whatever it was you needed to run the procedure.
Okay?
24 2s
" 9 138 l
I
4 4
1 LIONARONS:
ihght.
2 3
HUNTER:
Then you got done to Section 6, which is actually the pei-4 formance of the procedure.
/
5 6
LIONARONS:
Right.
That's correct.
7 HUNTER:
How do you normally perform that procedure yourself? What' 8
g do you do at that time?
10 LIONARONS:
11, We start right there at Section 6; we set procedure and 3
read througn the notes that are written there for cur informatton, and then as it says here, we initial each step after we nave compiated it.
13 Okay.
So we'd come down--would you like me to go through the whole p
pr edure?
Step ty step?
15 16' HUNTER:
Generally. Just how you'd handle it.
18 LIONARONS:
Like there's a few things like you've pointed out. Like we have an Eberline meter. We already have--all our meters are installed down there at this time.
So then we Jo through the Appendix A, which is the valve line up, which allows us to run the pump on recirc.
23 HUNTER:
That's Appendix A or Appendix B?
24 25; O'g l3g i
I I
f
- y p
l 1
LIONg0NS: Appendix A or AppendiA B according to which pump you're y
runni.1g, right.
So I ran Appendix A because that was the pump.
And then if you will notice, they' ce quite similar exactly the same, if I 3,,
remember correctly.
4 :
,5 h
.gp HUNTER:
Did you recall if yJu did both of them? Appendix A and 7
Appendix B that day?
8 LIONARONS:
Right.
Yeah, I did Appendix A and B.
Because, like I g
said, this allows us to run the pump or recire, so we're lining up the 10 valves accordingly. And then, like I said before, they're exactly the same.
I don't think there's a shade of difference between Appendix A and Appendix B.
14' HUNTER:
Okay.
Would you--
IS LIONARONS:
We'd be lining up the suctions exactly the same.
18 HUNTER:
Would do then do the Appendix A and B check lists at the same 191
{
time or would you do one and then the other?
21 LIONARONS:
No.
I would do both at the same time.
22 23 HUNTER:
Alright.
So vou would have done Appendix A and B that 24 morning? And run the A and then the B pump?
25}
t "9
140 t
i l
6 1
LIONARONS:
Right.
2 3
tiUNTER:
Okay, go ahead.
4 5l LIONARONS:
Continued on, we run our precheck list prior to running 6
the pump.
7 8
HUNTER:
Would like to uh...?
9 LIONARONS:
Checking lubrication, making sure we had oil.
10 11' HUNTER:
Certainly no problem.
12 13 LIONARONS:
Make sure that the seals are going to go alright.
Make sure there's no equipment needed.
I'd phone in, yeah.
16 HUNTER:
Hey John just, you know, relax.
Don't worry about it. I
~
18 19 LIONARONS:
No.
I wanted to point out one thing here to you before 20h l;
you went away.
I went to that next step.
This next step here, okay, 21j 6.1.5 I questioned the CR0 about, okay, which was -- we don't have a 22l local switch -- a local push button for that valve.
EFV 27A is inter-locked with the pump motor to open and supply same water when the pump is started.
25 o"9 141 t,
7 l
1 HUNTER:
Okay.
2 LIONARONS:
Okay? So like now that probably wasn't signed off by 3
4 myself.
5 HUNTER:
When you started the pump, then the valve came open?
6 7
LIONARONS:
Right.
Because this part of the scope is procedure is...
g at this frequency or this time that we'd run the pump, we also check g
e va es.
Okay?
10 11 HUNTER:
Right.
13 LIONARONS:
And that valve is part of the procedure: to check the time
,4 A
it's opening.
So that's the whole, you know, that's the intent of this particular step right here.
It's to record the time on the stroke of the valve.
17 18f HUNTER:
Okay.
19l 20 LIONARONS:
So we wouldn't be able to do that as the procedure reads; 21 so that was a deviation...
22 om9 347 23 HUNTER:
Okay.
24 25 l
l
8 1,
LIONARONS:
Procedure, and that included that.
2 1
HUNTER:
Okay.
3 ;
4 5
LIONARONS:
Closed, it is closed. Okay.
6 7
HUNTER:
Alright.
Now in Appendix A, it indicates that you would 8
close EF 12A and EF 128.
9 LIONARONS:
Right.
10 11 HUNTER:
g Are these closed reinotely or at the central board or down at the pump area?
13 14 LIONARONS:
They can be opercted from two places.
They can be operated 15 from out in the plant by our switchgear, which is not near the pumps 6
in the auxiliary building near the 305 elevation, and it can be operated g
g!
from the control room which is normally operated and were operated from.
19 20 HUNTER:
So that morning, they were operated from the control board?
22 LIONARONS:
Right.
Ong ]4}
24 25
(
I
t 9
1l HUNTER:
Did you call somebody to have them close those valves?
2 3
LIONARONS:
No.
I was right there.
4' HUNTER:
In the...I understand that you don't operate the control 5 :
6 board, but would Mr. Cooper or somebody else cr...
7 LIONARONS:
Hemmila, Mr. Hemmila.
8 9
HUNTER:
Earl Hemmila would he have operated them.
10 11 LIONARONS:
Right.
p 13 HUNTER:
Okay.
g l
15' LIONARONS:
They would have been operated by a CR0 the reactor operator.
16 I
171
{
HUNTER:
Right.
Can you remember what time you started this test?
18 19{
LIONARONS:
It would be early morning I'd say around 9:00.
I 21 HUNTER:
Okay.
23 LIONARONS:
Maybe earlier, 8:30.
" 9 144 25 I
10 1
HUNTER:
8:30.
Alright.
So then you got lined up, you've got the 2'
pump running, you know, you've done the valve lineups; you would do 3 :
the A pump.
At that time, would you then take specific data and fill 4
in the data sheets as required?
5 LIONARONS:
That's correct.
61 7
HUNTER:
Did you go through this procedure?
8 9
LIONARONS:
Right.
10 11 HUNTER:
And uh.
Okay.
Then you'd do the B pump and do the data on g
that.
Okay.
You've got the data completed and let me go down to 13 the... we'll pick the end of the procedure.
You do both of them at the same time.
Okay.
You would actually have gone all the way through 5
16:
d wn to step 6.2.17.
The data is is complete, everything is done and the last step is to ensure 8A and B opened, 12A and 8 opened, 7A and B Closed, and 39 and 40 closed.
i 191 LIONARONS:
Right.
21 HUNTER:
Do you recall that particular step?
b LIONARONS:
Sure. Yeah.
24 25 l
11 l
1; HUNTER:
Did you sign it off on the procedure you were running?
I 2!
l LIONARONS:
Yes, I did.
3l 4
5 HUNTER:
Uh, who'd you give the procedure to?
6l 7
LIONARONS:
CRO: That control room operator Earl Hemmila.
8 HUNTER:
So you gave it to Earl.
g 10 LIONARONS:
Right.
11 12 HUNTER:
Okay, and it was signed off?
13 14 15l LIONARONS:
- Right, l
16' HUNTER:
Okay.
Is that your normal habit of doing these procedures?
Do you always go down through and sign off the procedure as this re-19{
quires? Is that the way you do this?
20' LIONARONS:
Yeah I do. Mm hum.
21 22 HUNTER:
And do you know what Earl did with the procedure after you gave it to him?
i 25 l
i i
12 l
1!
LIONARONS:
No.
2 3
HUNTER:
Okay. No idea. How did you verify these particular valves in 4
that position?
5 6
LIONARONS:
EFV-39 and 40 are the manual recirc valves. They are a 7
locked closed valve normally.
So after we ran the pump on recirc 8
which was through EFV-39 and 40, we reshut 39 and 40 and ensured they g
were locked.
Then we proceeded to go upstairs, went to the control 10 room to the control board, and at that time we met with Marty Cooper 11 and Earl Hemmila and read the step off 6.2.17, and when they told me 12 that the valves were realigned, it was signed off.
13 HUNTER:
Okay.
Go back now, and you said that when they told you they 14; 15 were realigned, did you actually operate the valves?
16!
LIONARONS:
77 No I did not operate the valves on the control panel.
18' HUNTER:
Did you, in fact, see the valve operating or verify the red g
20j light on yourselves personally? In other words, as I remembered, did you end up...?
22 LIONARONS:
No.
Are you saying; can I see that red light in my head or the green light?
24 o"9 147 25 l
13 1
HUNTER:
Yeah.
Do you remember looking at it?
2 :
3 LIONARONS:
No, I can't see that.
S HUNTER:
Are you going over and see yes those are open and yes those are closea?
6{
7 LIONARONS:
No.
8 9
HUNTER:
Would you normally do that or would you just let them tell 10, 11 y u that they're open or closed?
12 LIONARONS:
13 Probably, normally let there tell me that it's open or closed cause I could of done that from the local.
I could of called up n the phone and had them phone them up.
15 16jj HUNTER:
Go back again, Kevin, and try to talk to us through the last step.
You had finished and I'll assume that you are on your way then 18{
back to to the control room. And you got to the control room did the 19 procedure. And walk through real carefully, 6.2.17 again.
Again, as you recall, or the best recall, specifically how you signed that particular step off?
23 LIONARONS:
Okay.
I cuo.. up to the control room, up to the control panel.
Like I said I met with Marty Cooper who had the panel, which 0"9 148
1 14 l
1 was standing in front of the panel.
And Earl Hemmila, which was the 2
control room operator directing the surveillance.
Okay.
Earl asked 3
me if we were done, and that means have we got our data complete, 4
cause.he knew we were finished, cause the pump was shut off.
So yes 5
we were done, and I said the last step, we've gotta realign the EFV-8, 6
12's and 7's, and I said the 39 and 40 were already done.
7 g
HUNTER:
Okay.
And then his indication to you after that? Or was g
that where you dropped it?
10 RESNER:
What was his response?
11 12 HUNTER 2 What was his response? Was it that okay...
13 14 LIONARONS:
His response was...
15 16 HUNTER:
We have to realign these valves.
g 18 LIONARONS:
The valves were realigned.
g 20' HUNTER:
Oral, verbally to you...
22 LIONARONS:
Right.
And then we got into a discussion on a question that I had.
And then I said after we finished our discussion (which was on those valves not 12's in particular but the 7 and 8's) that I "9
149 6
.I 15 1
said "Okay this is signed off" or this is done".
And they acknowledged 2
the valves were realigned and that was it.
3 4l HUNTER:
What was the discussion?
5 6
LIONARONS:
I had a question on EFV-7 and 8's.
I wasn' t... see we run 7
those on recirc back to the condenser.
And normally they were lined g
up to the condensate storage tank.
And I was wondering why they g
weren't lined back up just...
We were taking a suction... we would 10 n rmally take a suction from the condensate system during a loss of normal feed.
So I questioned him about that and they were explaining 11 12 to me about 7 and 8's positions where they were 1 ned up.
13 HUNTER:
All right, EFV-8A and B is open; that opens a recirc to where?
15 16 LIONARONS:
Back to the condensate storage tanks.
18 HUNTER:
Alright.
And 12A and B are the header valves; these I assume i
19l would be open...
21; LIONARONS:
Right. Right.
23 HUNTER:
78 and B is closed; that's the recirc back to the condenser?
24 2s
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+
t i
16 1:
LIONARONS:
Right.
2 3
HUNTER:
And the question was, why recirc back to the condensate tank 4
versus the condenser?
And...
5 6
LIONARONS:
When we'd be taking a suction during a loss of feed, we'd 7
be lined up to take a suction off the condensate system.
8 g
HUNTER:
During a blackout or loss of feed with the...
10 LIONARONS:
Right...
11 12 HUNTER:
--condensate pumps the suction would then...
13 14 LIONARONS:
feed pump...
15 15 HUNTER:
... feed pumps okay...
7 18j LIONARONS:
Yeah. And we'd take a suction off them.
g 20 HUNTER:
Okay and 39 and 40 were local manual closed and locked closed.
Do you know if those were logged in the control room log book as being returned to their lock closed position or would you have done that?
24 25
""9 151 i
17 l
1 LIONARONS:
No, I didn't uh..
2 3
HUNTER:
Go ahead...
4 5
LIONARONS:
No, they weren't.
6 7
HUNTER:
If they were, it was done by Earl?
If they were logged?
8 LIONARONS:
I didn't do them.
g 10 HUNTER:
Okay.
11 12 RESNER:
Do you know who did do them?
13 14 Y
15 16 HUNTER:
The logging of the layout was locked back to normal locked 18 19l LIONARONS:
uh-huh...
20 21 HUNTER:
You acted on insulated valves LOCA and put the locks back on?
23 LIONARONS:
Right.
nng 25,
18 1
HUNTER:
Okay.
Alright. Taking any other surveillance, now, you gave 2
this procedure intact then, as a whole, to Earl Hemmila?
3 4
LIONARONS:
Right.
5 6
HUNTER:
And then what he did with it,...uh...you're not aware?
7 8
LIONARONS:
Not officially, no.
9 HUNTER:
- Okay, uh...
10 11 LIONARONS:
Only that I asked him afterwards.
12!
13 HUNTER:
Alright.
When?
Right then?
g 15 LIONARONS:
No.
After March 28th.
[ chuckle]
17 HUNTER:
Okay. When we pulled the green package, and this is the copy I
right here, this is the green sheet...
19l 20 LIONARONS:
Right, right.
22 HUNTER:
You would find the green sheets indicating... Do you recall when you finished that particular test approximately?
Now that's manhours, don't forget...
25lI o"9 153
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1, LIONARONS:
Yeah, no, no I realize that. That's why it was six.
2 Before :00, no, before lunch.
3 4
HUNTER:
Okay, like 8:30 to 10:00 or 11:00?
5 6
LIONARONS:
Right.
Because I was going to eat lunch right after we 7
finished that.
8 HUNTER:
Okay.
It's logged out at 10:00.
Does that sound reasonable?
g 10 LIONARONS-Yeah, it could have been.
11 12, HUNTER:
13 I was more interested in when you started. You logged the data out and the time at 10:00 and he actually signed off at 12:45, g
got through, the shift foreman did. So would this be the time you tcok i
the data or when the test was finished? This particular time?
16 17 LIONARONS:
That would be the time that we collected that data right 8{
i there.
19l 20' HUNTER:
Okay so you may have run on out until 11 or so.
22 LIONARONS:
Right.
You know, an hour is not much.
24 nn9 54 25l' i
20 1
HUNTER:
And what you recall, you were going to eat lunch right after 2!
you finished this.
l 3
4 LIONARONS:
Right.
S 6
HUNTER:
When do you normally eat lunch? That'd put...
7 8
LIONARONS:
Whenever we can.
9 10 HUNTER:
Okay. Do you recall on this day, realizing that it was a long hour?
11 12 LIONARONS:
No.
13 14, HUNTER:
15 But is it usually noon plus or minus an hour, or something like that?
16 17 LIONARONS:
No, it would be 11 plus or minus an hour.
18i t
19l i
HUNTER:
Okay, so it might have been 10:30 or 11:00, 11:30.
21 LIONARONS:
Yeah. Right.
g 23 HUNTER:
Okay.
But it was really before early afternoon that this was finished.
25l l
""9 155 i
t
21 1
LIONARONS:
Right.
2 3
HUNTER:
That would put this system, Kevin, out of service or in the 4-actual surveillance made like from 8:30 or 9:00 up to maybe 11:30...
5 6
LIONARONS:
Yean, on emergency standby.
7 8
HUNTER:
or 12:00, whatever?
9 LIONARONS:
Uh-huh.
10 11 HUNTER:
Okay. Emergency standby, would you explain that?
g 13 LIONARONS:
14 The system is an ES system or engineering safeguards 15 system and it's designed to supply feedwater to the steam generators when there's a loss of normal feed which is through our normal feedwater E"*E**
17 18 HUNTER:
So you consider that as an emergency standby system?
Is that g
what that was?
21 LIONARONS:
Right.
23 HUNTER:
Okay, now... the data sheets in the package are separated from the procedure and then the cover sheet of the procedures is into o"9 156 i
l l
22 1.
the package.
And this is what's in the file. The procedure and your 2
sign offs are not in the file.
3 4
LIONARONS:
I realize that.
5 6
HUNTER:
I have no record... there is no record of you performing that 7
particular test.
8 LIONARONS:
Right.
I realize that.
See I didn't know that at the g
time.
And when I heard that, I was surprised.
Because...
10, 11 HUNTER:
Go ahead.
12 13 LIONARONS:
We do through and initial off all the steps...
14l 15 HUNTER:
What about the other aux? What about the other auxiliary 16 operator?
p 18, LIONARONS:
Oh he's an auxiliary operator from Unit 1 and we cross-g trained so we stake our auxiliary operator aids with their auxiliary operator aids and vice versa; and uh Ed was working with me that day.
22 HUNTER:
Let's see, I believe I saw his name on here somewhere.
24 25 0"9 157 I
l
23 l
1 LIONARONS:
Yeah right there.
2; 3
HUNTER:
Ed Tennis?
4 5
LIONARONS:
Right.
6 7
HUNTER:
Ed Tennis?
8 LIONARONS:
Right.
g 10 11 But did you... include does that means that he and you were HUNTER:
working specifically together?
p 13 LIONARONS:
Right.
p 15 16-HUNTER:
Never not apart but actually...
17 18{
19 HUNTER:
Okay.
Any information--did he go with you up to the control room when you actually got the system realigned?
22 LIONARONS:
Yes, yes he did.
24 "9
158 25 I
I I
24 1
HUNTER:
Were you explaining anything to him at that time or was he following the procedure step by step?
Did he have...
2lt 3
4, LIONARONS:
At.what time? At what time?
I 5
6 HUNTER:
Did he put the system back to normal, like opening the 8, 7
the 12 valves? Did he happen to be standing with you, listening to 8
Mr. Cooper'or Earl saying "the vah es are open"? Or was he actually g
looking at the valves himself?
Do you...
10' LIONARONS:
You'd have to ask Ed because I don't want to say.
11 12 HUNTER:
13 He wasn't standing with you in some kind of discussion at that time listening to you discuss the 12 valves?
14 i
15' LIONARONS:
I don't remember. I don't remember.
16 17 H
a s fine.
18 19l l
20 RESNER:
Ed who?
21 LIONARONS:
Ed Tennis.
22 23 HUNTER:
We can check with him.
So what we've got down to again, and let me make sure I have all the information we need, is that the...
I "9
159
25 1,
it's a routine test that you've run before as an A0A, as an auxiliary 2
operator A who's done that morning sometime like around 9:00-12:00 or 3
whatever...
4 5
LIONARONS:
Morning hours right.
6 7
HUNTER:
What...
How long does it normally take you to do that test?
8 That's a good... just a feel, if one or two of you are working.
Is g
that about a three-hour test or two-hour test or...
10 LIONARONS:
Could be.
On that particular morning we had problems with 11 12 some valves so that took a little while longer.
We were getting dual indication on our EFP7s, the recirculation valves to the condenser.
13 S
14) we had to cycle those up, had to send Ed up on the piping which is 9' ""
15 16 wanted to ensure that they were open.
So that's... it's hard to pinpoint the time.
But, you know, we went up and they had communications so we had to go down.
They had a cycle and we had to send a man up.
19!
We had to be satisfied that they were open.
20l 21 HUNTER:
Did you issue a maintenance order at that time?
23 LIONARONS:
No, I believe we cleared the dual indication, I think.
Ed had gone up and checked to see if they were hung up at all, and then l
we had cycled them and then they got the straight indication.
t i
i 0^9 160 i
k
26 1
HUNTER:
So they must have not traveled fully the first time that...?
2 31 LIONARONS:
That's common.
6 4
5 HUNTER:
Was Earl aware of that?
6 7
LIONARONS:
Sure, he was around somewhere.
8 HUNTER:
So ' Earl then was aware that the valves had a partial to g
10 travel for the first time you tried them.
Okay, so it's a couple hour test.
You finish the data, you run both pumps, you did the valve line 11 y
ups, you signed off all the steps, which is...
That's the way you do business?
13 What about what's his name Tennis, is that the way he does business?
Does he sign off his surveillance sheet procedures? You'd 14 have to ask Earl, I mean you'd have to ask Ed?
15 l
16!
LIONARONS:
You'd have to ask Ed.
It seems so; that's the procedure g
f r an operator.
You know, you'd have to talk to him.
18 i
19l HUNTER:
Yeah.
The... would.. are you sensitive to the fact that 20' Section 6.0 says " initial each step after satisfactory conclusion"?
22 LIONARONS:
Yeah.
O"9 lbl 24 25l
1 27 1
HUNTER:
Is that the way you're trained?
i 2
1 3f LIONARONS:
That's right.
4 5
HUNTER:
Some surveillance only has data sheets and doesn't require 6
you to sign off a step.
There may be some like that, but most of them 7
that you run have actual steps that you sign off?
8 LIONARONS:
When we're runing equipment like that, you do sign off g
10 steps.
11 HUNTER:
12 Okay.
13 LIONARONS:
You're going to look at a surveillance sheet that just g!
requires you to take a reading or something like that, there is no steps.
t 17 HUNTER:
Right, okay.
18[.
19I LIONARONS:
So thats, but when we are running, you know, that's a major piece of equipment.
22 HUNTER:
Okay.
You've completed a test, you went back upstairs, you go to the control room the... you were told that th? 12 valves were back in their position?
" 9 162 i
28 l
1 LIONARONS:
Right.
2' 3
HUNTER:
The 8's, and the 12's and the 7's were in...
4 5
LIONARONS:
Right.
6 HUNTER:
But again you did not, in fact, walk to the control panel 7
8 and look at the five valves, the pumps, the 12 valves...
9 LIONARONS:
I could find them on there if I wanted to look for them.
10 11 HUNTER:
But you did not...
g 13 LIONARONS:
But I am not acclimated to the panel where I could just 1
k and tell.
I kind of have to gawk for a little while.
5 16 HUNTER:
I understand that.
18 LIONARONS:
So...
i 19 20 HUNTER:
But that morning you did not in fact go over and verify by indication that they were open.
Secondly, you did not go back down-stairs during that day, or did you, and verify those valves open?
24 Dog jf3 25 l
l
29 1,
LIONARONS:
No, I didn't go back downstairs and verify they were 2
open, and under normal circumstances, I wouldn't do that.
3 4
HUNTER:
I understand that, but I just want to make sure that we've 5
got all the strings tied, loose ends tied, so that we don't leave 6
anything.
Okay.
7 8
LIONARONS:
But, when we realigned that system back to normal; the g
way we were standing probably had something to do with why they were 10 realigned, by whom they were realigned.
Like I said, Marty had the 11, panel, and it was myself reading the procedure and Earl standing to my 12 right, and as I was reading them off...
13 HUNTER:
You were looking at the panel?
14 i
15j LIONARONS:
I was looking at the panel.
Earl is to my right.
16 17 HUNTER:
And Cooper is over by the...?
19f LIONARONS:
No, Cooper is right directly on my left, and we're standing at the panel.
The panel is directly in front of me.
As I read the steps off, Marty repositioned the valves, and the only reason that Marty repositioned them instead of Earl, it's just partly a matter of convenience.
Like, instead of Earl having to reach across in front of me and across in front of Marty to reach the valve that was here,
" 9 164
30 1
Marty would just reach up and reposition the valves.
As I read them 2
off, Marty repositioned them.
And, like I say, did I see the valves 3
actually change the colors from red to green? You know, I would like 4
to say "yes I did," but more than likely, you know, I could of, but 5
when something like this comes up and somebody says "did you see?" you 6
know, you question in your own mind.
7 HUNTER:
Okay.
Uh.
You've run this surveillance procedure a number 8
of times?
g 10 LIONARONS:
Right.
11 12 RESNER:
Let me interrupt. We'll break at this time to change the 13 tape.
The time is now 11:50 a.m.
p I
15; RESNER:
This is a continuation of the interview with Mr. John Kevin 6;
Lionarons, and, as we broke to change the tape, Mr. Hunter was in the process of asking a question.
19l HUNTER:
We're to cover one more area concerning the surveillance.
20l You have done the surveillance, as you indicated earlier a number of times.
You're familiar with the surveillance, being part of your routine job; that's understandable.
Part of this surveillance, this particular surveillance procedure, is to perform Appendix A and B; we discussed that earlier and they are identical.
The performance of the o"9 165 i
31 1
A, in fact, does require valve manipulations, and if a valve was not 2
in a normal positica, you would pick it up during the test.
For 3
instance, if the 12 valves were already closed when you started this 4
test, or the 8 valves were out of position, or the 12s or the lls were 5
out of position during your performance of this surveillance, somebody 6
would note that; you or Earl would make a mental note of the valve 7
position.
8 LIONARONS:
Right.
That's true.
g 10' HUNTER:
11 The question is, if in fact during the performance of this particular surveillance, and I would like to extend that a little g
bit--there's a 14 series of surveillances (A, 8, C, D and E) which are valve lineup verifications the 0 and E; A, B and C are doing the turbine pump and valve.,.
15 I
16i LIONARONS:
That's true.
18l l
HUNTER:
But I would like to include that in the question, okay?
g 20' LIONARONS:
Okay.
22, HUNTER:
And I am sure you've done those tests, because it's the same type test on the other pump.
Have you, in fact, as you did these surveillances, found any valves in an abnormal position?
I i
" 9 166
32 1
1 LIONARONS:
None that 1 can recall right at this time.
i 2
3 :
HUNTER:
Finding a valve in an abnormal position du;ing a critical 4
test, and I think you said this was major piece of equipment...
5 6
LIONARONS:
Sure, right, yeah...
7 8
HUNTER:
Should, uh, should be an item to remember.
Even if you don't g
remember when or where or how the date...
The point is, had you in 10 fact found a valve in a position in other than what you had thought it 11 should be and called Earl or whoever the surveillance key was, the 12 control operator, and say " hey look, I have a valve out or position,"
13 because I think the procedure says, especially.the 14 says, if, in i
fact, you do a valve line up and you find anything out of position, g
n tify the shift foreman.
Have ycu ever done that? Have you ever had 15 i
the case to call?
6' 17 LIONARONS:
On that particular surveillance or any surveillance?
l lo_j i
19{
HUNTER:
Any surveillance.
I want to....
on any surveillance, have you found something out of position?
I said I wanted to include the 27A and B, I want to include the 14, but again.I realize that you may be, as a A0A, you do decay removal pumps, you do...
On surveillance, have you had to call your foreman and say, hey, there's something out of position?
25l
" 9 167 l
33 i
l If LIONARONS:
I can't recall anytime that I have had to call the control l
2l room on a valve chat was out of position that was inadvertently left 3
out of position.
Now may be, yes, on red tag, but that -- like you 4j said -- that didn't particularly stick in my mind because that's been 5
done many times.
You may be doing a surveillance that encompasses a 6
piece of equipment that's legaly tied down and you'd run on your valve 7
line up.
Yes.
But as far as, have I inadvertently run across a valve 8
that's closed on this procedure? No.
9 HUNTER:
Okay.
You do routine walk arounds.
10, 11' LIONARONS:
Rignt.
12 13 HUNTER:
00 you happen to pass the switch gear where these particular 14 valves have a BEF 12 valve type of LOCA switch.
Is the valve indicated 5
. n the switch gear as far as open and close.
16 17 LIONARONS:
Right yes.
8l 19!
MUNTER:
Have you ever looked at that and found those valves other than open.
~
?2 LIONARONS:
Thc;e particular valves, no.
24 n ~:'
168 I
i
34 I
HUNTER:
Okay.
2l 0
2 LIONARONS:
There's a slew of valves along that wall.
T
'1 4
3 HUNTER:
Have you...
Do you recall finding in any particular valves, 6
or,...that have been in a wrong position like more than once, or do 7
you recall finding a valve like decay heat valve, something or other, 8
in other than normal position?
9 LIONARONS:
I'm not sure, I really... Like I know what you're asking 10 but I dof t see...
Do you want to know if I ever had found any valves 11 12 f und any valves that...?
13 HUNTER:
Yes.
I want to know if you ever had found any.
15 LIONARONS:
Yes.
I have found valves out of position.
16 17 HUNTER:
'Okay.
Then if you have found valves out of position, again, g
do you recall what they were?
19[
l 20!
LIONARONS:
Allright? I found a valve out of position not too long ago.
But I'm not sure what I'm getting into.
I'm not...
Do you want to dig into another system nom Is that what you want me to do?
r 24 "9
169 251 1
i
35 1
HU.1TER:
I.f, in fact, it was a safety related system, I would like to 2
know if it was out of position.
3 4
LIONARONS:
Yes.
I found a safety related valve out of position.
5 6
HUNTER:
Okay.
Can you tell me which valve it was?
7 LIONARONS:
8 BHB 102A and you want a...
9 HUNTER:
Can you identify that?
10 11 LIONARONS:
Identify it.
nkay.
Because of the way our plant is g
designed, and the way our decay heat removal pump take a suction from 13 our BWST or our reactor building sumps, and because this valve has g
failed it's stroke time, we have that valve, and we have it locked 5
open.
We have the valve open and the breaker open.
The breaker is open and the valves is closed.
18' HUNTER:
Okay.
Do you recall the way it was generally?
But also g
even -- this is important -- who did you notify?
21, LIONARONS:
I notified the CR0.
22 23 HUNTER:
And the CR0 would be ho?
24 25
" 9 170 l
I
36 1
LIONARONS:
Osle Congeon.
2-3 HUNTER:
Congeon C-o-n g-e-o-n.
4 5
LIONARONS:
Yeah that's right.
That's correct.
6 7
HUNTER:
Okay. And what did he say at that time? Do you recall?
8 LIONARONS:
Close the breaker or open the - yeah -
excuse me, _close g
the breaker.
10 11 HUNTER:
So you went through an evolution; close, take the lock off, close the breaker, open the valve, open the breaker, and put the lock 13 back on.
Did you go through that evolution?
p 15 LIONARONS:
Right.
Exactly that.
1g 17 HUNTER:
Is there any other incidents -
excuse me -- 102A valve is 8
from uh...
is shut from BWST if I'm hearing you right, okay.
Because there would be an A and B - you didn't find B also?
21 LIONARONS:
No, we check those on our readings.
23 HUNTER:
Okay.
009 j/)
25 f
. 3 37 1
LIONARONS:
At that time I found it out of position.
t,' ~
2 3
HUNTER:
Do you recall, a month ago, uh two months ago, was that that 4
particular incident? Was.it recently, the reason you recall?
5 LIONARONS:
Recently in terms of four months.
6 7
RESNER:
8 Which would have been, right about when during the month?
What month what day?
g 10 i
y, LIONARONS:
See, you're asking me, I'm not really sure, because I was on a different shift at that time.
I was trying to relate when I had g
switched shifts.
See I was on with Joe and Seesha.
13
+
14, HUNTER:
When did you shift?
15l e
3 16
?
LIONARONS:
I don't know, I was trying to remember.
Wnen our shift
=~' '
17 was formulated.
' ~. -
18l 19l HUNTER:
Was th?t when you fellows went to a sixth shift?
21i LIONARONS:
Right.
22 23 HUNTER:
Oksy, we'll can get that then.
, ^ ',
24 iT
" 9 172
.,l 25 GD %
s g
e _
4
~
p g
38 1
LIONARONS:
It was right before that, maybe.
2 3
HUNTER:
Just before sixth shift.
4 5
LIONARONS:
It was from the time that I was notified. So that was 6
right before the six shifts.
7 HUNTER:
Do you recall seeing any...?
Let me ask you, during this g
g type of reading and all that was in an abnormal position.
10 LIONARONS:
Right.
g 12 HU mig
, may assume cat... Can you recall d e con M on 13 of the plant? Was it at hot shutdown or how...?
What was running g
15l that day. The main feed pumps were running?
16!
LIONARONS:
Well, let's put at it this way. It was in a position, the plant was in a status where you wouldn't want that valve shut.
19 HUNTER:
Okay.
21 LIONARONS:
Okay.
23 HUNTER:
Not that I can't remember but then I'11 say where do you go 24 next? And you'll say, I go by the main feed pumps.
And then, were 25 ong l
t I
39 1
they running or we ; they not?
Yes, they were.
We were at power; the 2
valve should of been on, but you, it was then on you, because you 3
realize the plant was in condition, that valve should of been on from 4
past performance...
5 61 LIONARONS:
Right.
When I looked at that and saw that the valve was 7
shut, and it kind of set you back a little bit.
Plus, there was some-g thing that went along with that too, which probably isn't relevant, but the...
g 10 HUNTER:
Go ahead.
Once you said something was not relevant.
Go yy ahead.
12 13 LIONARONS:
No it wasn't.
It wasn't relevant to that.
g 15 I
HUNTER:
What about another bag, or another case where the pump was in full to lock or valve in not in the normal position.
Am I building, am I spreading my wings a little bit.
19 LIONARONS:
No, I can't think of anything like that.
21.
HUNTER:
Nothing specific.
Okay.
Would you say that this is very unusual.
23 24 ong 25 t
40 1
LIONARONS:
Yeah, highly unusual.
2, 3
HUNTER:
Would you say that, have you, you've been here a year or so, 4
you know, whatever have you seen this kind of thing very often?
5 6
LIONARONS:
Not on the power like that, no.
7 g
HUNTER:
Did you ask why it was in a closed position or did you go g
back and say, hey look, I would like to know why it was closed? Was 10 it after surveillance?
11 LIONARONS: Well, I asked if it was supposed to be closed, which I g
13 knew it wasn't supposed to be closed.
Right.
So you ask that " Joe why have you got the BH2B closed." You know like...
14 15 HUNTER:
g The indications for that valve local are but also up on the control room.
.j 18 LIONARONS:
I don't know.
I can't tell you for sure because I dont g
know.
I know they do have indication for that valve up there, but I don't know if they have indication for that valve up there when the breaker is open.
23 HUNTER:
Right.
Would you say, I believe they do have.
25' "9
175 t
l
41 1
LIONARONS:
Okay.
2 3
HUNTER:
They are local at the switch gear to the lights...
The 4f breaker you had to read the position of the breaker.
5 6
LIONARONS:
Oh right, right.
The breaker is either open or it's 7
closed.
8 HUNTER:
Right.
And the breaker was in fact closed, I mean, was g
10 pen.
11 LIONARONS:
The breaker was open.
g 13 HUNTER:
But the lights on the breaker, like the motor control center, g
is that... where you read it, or do read it somewhere else?
5 i
16' LIONARONS:
No, on those particular valves, because they 2 1 what they g
re, we check those manual -- we check those physically.
18 19f HUNTER:
Do you actually go down and check the stem?
21 LIONARONS:
We go down and check the stem on that valve.
That's in our decay heat ball.
24 "9
176 25 i
I 42 1
HUNTER:
Do you that once per shift?
Is that the kind of thing to do 2
one per shift.
3 4
LIONARONS:
No.
Yes, once per shift right.
5 6
HUNTER:
Did you log that on the shift, on your shift, on your log.
7 8
LIONARONS:
I don't remember.
9 HUNTER:
Would you normally do that?
10 11 LIONARONS:
I would seem so.
12 13 HUNTER:
You know, you would say abnormal BAQ 102 found closed or 14 ;
P'"'
15 16' LIONARONS:
Yeah, I believe I would, because it does ask.
Well 7
that's the position of it.
18 19 HUNTER:
So you would have logged it closed and then had t 21 LIONARONS:
I may of logged it open and noted that it was found closed.
23 o"9 177 24 25 l
43 l'
HUNTER:
Okay.
Alright.
We've gone through pumps and valves and 2
doing your routine surveillance and you're taking specific readings so 3
and it must be apparent to you.
It is apparent, I'm sure, that you're 4
taking those like the shift readings and you're logging them open or 5
closed or whatever, and there's a reason for it, because it's in that 6
mode performance type sheet in this kind of verification.
7 8
LIONARONS:
That's a mode check list.
9 HUNTER:
Right and so in the mode check, list you would take that 10, 11 up...
Okay.
Uh.
12 LIONARONS:
Plus, we do know the status of the plant.
We do how it 13 perates.
14 15; HUNTER:
I would hope so.
16 17 LIONARONS:
You know, we would know that a valve like that.
g 19l HUNTER:
You haven't found anything since that day that...
So that was like a few months ago and since then you've had...
You haven't found any...
23 LIONARONS:
It's like, you say, something like that is a rarity.
25 o"9 178 I
r
44 1
HUNTER:
Are you aware of special operation of the emergency feedwater 2
valves, or the 11 valves or the 12 valves where they would be inad-3 vertently or intentionally kept closed? Are you aware of anything 4
like that?
Have you ever heard of anything discussed like that where 5
the valves actually intentionally kept closed or the 11 valves intention-g ally kept in manual rather than the 12 valves beir.g open as they 7
should and the 11 valves being allowed to open as they should at 30...
8 9
LIONARONS:
Right.
Right.
10 11 HUNTER:
Okay.
12 LIONARONS:
No.
13 14, 15l HUNTER:
I don't have any further questions Kevin.
We would like to 16 catch the tail end of that sheet, those Qree questions, right now.
17 18 Before going on I would like to ask you a couple of question, RESNER:
if we can digress a moment.
When you found that valve that was in 19 abnormal position, what percent power were you?
20 21 LIONARONS:
I don' t remember.
It's like I pointed out.
It was that...
l It was in a period in a, where the plant was at a position where that g
valves shouldn't have been in that position.
2s
" 9 179 t
45 1
RESNER:
Okay.
2 3
LIONARONS:
So, you know, I would say that we're at a power status as 4
opposed to be in a shutdown like a made 3 or 4 or 5.
5 6
RESNER:
Okay.
Thank you.
The thing that we discussed that you said 7
you didn't feel was relevant, what were you speaking of?
8 LIONARONS:
It was a personal thing that related to that.
g 10 RESNER:
Allright. Inadvertently, did not ask you the three questions, 11 which are on the second page of the advisement document which we p
13 covered at the beginning of the interview.
So for the record, I would like to get those on the tape now.
Question 1, do you understand the above and this is in reference to the advice of the document? And you 5
have checked yes.
Is that correct?
g 17 LIONARONS:
That's correct.
t 19 RESNER:
Question 2, do we have permission to tape the interview?
You have cnecked yes.
Is that correct?
22 LIONARONS:
That's correct.
Ong 24 25
46 1.
RESNER:
Question 3, do you want a copy of the tape.
You have checked 2.
yes.
Is that correct?
3 4
LIONARONS:
That's correct.
5 6
RESNER:
Okay.
We'll provide you a copy of the tape shortly after 7
the interview is concluded.
The time now is 12:07 p.m., and this 8
concludes the inteview of Mr. John Kevin Lionarons.
9 10 11
'"'9 181 12 13 14 I
15 16l 17 18 19 l
20' 21 22 23 24 25 l
l l
l