ML19242D905
| ML19242D905 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 05/18/1979 |
| From: | Guthrie C METROPOLITAN EDISON CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 7908280813 | |
| Download: ML19242D905 (33) | |
Text
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I'l UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION i
i 1
In the Matter of:
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IE TMI INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW 3!
of i
-e Carl L. Guthrie Shift Foreman si Ei 7
i 8!
j Trailer #203 9i NRC Investigation s ite I
TMI Nuclear Power Plant 10 Middletown, Pennsylvania 11)l May 18,1979 12!
(Oate of Irtarview) l 13!
July 9,1979 i
(Date Transcript Typec) 14!
__217 and 218 15!
(Tape Numoer(s))
16!
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19i 20!
21 NRC PERSONNEL:
22 l' Dorwin R. Hunter 23l!
Thomas T. Martin Mark E. Resner 24!
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RESNER:
The folbwing is an interview of Mr. Carl L. Guthrie.
Mr.
2f Guthrie is employed with the cietropolitan Edison Company and he is a 31 Shift Foreman at the Three Mile Island nuclear facility.
The present t
4' time is 7:47 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time.
Today's date is May 18, 1979.
This interview is being conducted in Trailer 203, which is located just outside the south gate to the Three Mile Island facility.
Present for 7
this interview representing the NRC are Dorwin R. Munter.
Mr. Hunter 8
is an Inspection Specialist.
He is temporarily assigned to Region IIi 9!
of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
Also present is Mr. Thomas T.
10f Martin.
Mr. Martin is an Inspection Specialist from Region I of the 11 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
Also present representing NRC is 12 myself, Mark E. Resner, and I am an Investigator with the Office of 13!
Inspector and Auditor, Headquarters, U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Co, mission.
14 Present at the choice of Mr. Guthrie to act as his representative is 15i Mr. William H. Behrle.
Mr. Behrle is a Project Engineer employed with 16!
the Metropolitan Edison Ccmpany.
Prior to taping this interview, Mr.
17 Guthrie was given a two page advisement document which explained the 18i purpose, the scope, and the authority which the USNRC has been given to 19!
conduct this investigation.
In addition, this document advised him 20]
that he was in no way compelled to talk i.o us and that he was entitled 21I to a representative of his choice.
On the second page of this document i
22l there are three questions which Mr. Guthrie has answered.
I will state i
23]
these for the record.
Question No. 1:
Do you understand the above?
24; Mr. Guthrie has cnecked yes.
Is that correct, Mr. Guthrie?
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l't GUTHRIE:
Yes, it is, i
2:
l 3l RESNER:
Question No. 2:
Do we have your permission to tape the interview?
4 Mr. Guthrie has also checked yes.
Is that correct, Mr. Guthrie?
5 O!
GUTHRIE:
Yes, that's true.
i 7l l
8f RESNER:
Question No. 3:
Do you want a copy of the tape?
Mr. Guthrie 9
has checked no; however, he has indicated that he does desire a transcript
(
10 of the tape.
Is that correct?
Mr. Guthrie?
11l 12!
GUTHRIE:
That is correct.
13 14l RESNER:
OK, we will provide you with a transcript at a later date.
At 15!
this time, I would like Mr. Guthrie to give us a brief synopsis of his 16 experience, jobwise and education wice in the nuclear field.
Mr. Guthrie.
17!
18!
GUTHRIE:
Approximately 9 years experience in the U.S. Navy, commencing 19j in 1960.
I entered the nuclear field 1965 as a control rocm operator
.C l ar.d spent the next 4 years serving on various fleet ballistic missiles.
I 21l I am presently working for Metropolitan Edison Ccmpany, commencing 1971 22I as Auxiliary Operator; assumed position of Shift Foreman in 1972.
23l Licensed Senior Reactor Operator Lisense on Unit 1 approximately '74.
I 24l Currently Senior Reactor License, cross licensed on Units 1 and 2, 25j working TMI-Unit 2.
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1 1
RESNER:
All right, thank you very much, Mr. Guthrie.
At this time I 2
will turn the questioning over to Mr. Hunter.
3; f
HUNTER:
Carl, Hunter speaking, we're interested in two areas, and the I
Si first area that we would like to discuss is your activities on the 28th 6l of March, the morning when-you were called in early and the easiest way 7
to go through it is if you would give us a quick, general outline of 8l what you did starting from the time that you were called and arrived on 9
site and the general activities that you were involved in and then we 10j will key on some of the specific activities.
As best as you recall, i
11l okay, and don't worry about the specific times.
We are more interested i
- 12l, in, as an example, if you were involved in pressurizer P aters that i
13l type thing, just go throucii it and then we'll key on thi gs.
14!
15:
GUTHRIE:
I was called approximately 5:00 in the morning I arrivea at 16:
site approximately 5:45, assisted in control room functions, restoration 17
' ventilation, pressurizer heater switchgear area, restoring tripped 18 pressurizer breakers, problems with, control room functions.
Approxi-19; mately midmorning it was, I entered the aux building to close and reset 20; the breakers for DHV 102s.
Upon leaving the aux building I t.acame 21i contaminated and left for Unit 1 for decontamination.
The rest of the 22j day essentially was tied up in Unit 1 and that's about it.
I left in i
23j the afternoon.
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4 I:
HUNTER:
OK, Carl, going back now and then we'll try to work our way I
2f down through and pick out some of the more datails.
Do you recall who called you at 5:00 o' clock or was it just a phone call?
4; y
- l GUTHRIE:
I don't remember the specific individual that called me.
6i 7
H'JNTER:
It was a request just to come in and assist in Unit 2, was i
M that the type of call it was?
9!
10 GUTHRIE:
That's right.
It was made by somoone non-ops, non-operations lli department.
I don't know who was making the cails.
i 12!
13l hut;TER:
Did you get any plant status at that time or was it just to 14!
come in?
15 1 16:
GUTHRIE:
It was just to come in and it was no specific plant status, 17 in fact, I never did get any specific plant status.
ISI 19!
HUNTER:
OK, you arrived onsite then, you indicated, at 5:45 aporoxi-20i:
mately.
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21l 22 GUTHRIE:
That's right.
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1 HUNTER:
OK and you proceeded then to Unit 2 control room?
2!
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GUTHRIE:
That is right.
4l 5
HUNTER:
OK.
Can you give me an idea of when you came into Unit 2 6j there were certain people there and you ended up talking with somebody, 7
I'm sure. And can you give me an idea of wh.ere you went when you first 8
came into the control room? Who you talked with?
i 9I 10 GUTHRIE:
Well, really didn' t do toc much conversing.
I really didn't lli get a good turnover.
I knew that things pretty well stayed a crisis.
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12!
I was assigned various jobs by the shift supervisor, Unit l's supervisor 13 of operations, or other jobs as they came along.
14!
15 HUNTER:
OK.
What was the condition of the control room when you came 16; in.
The number of people, noise level, that type of Was it fairly 17 calm, very few people at that time, about 5:45?
18[
19i GUTHRIE:
It was fairly busy.
The number of people was, I would say 5 20j or 6. The shif t supervisor, the Supervisor of Operations from Unit 1, 2 i
21f CR0s, and there may have been one or two other individuals.
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i ll' HUNTER:
OK.
Were you involved fair ly quickly in going down and checking the heat of the, the pressurizer heater breaker locally at the heater 31 control cabinet?
4!
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GUTHRIE:
Yes, that occurred fairly early.
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7 HUNTER:
And what was the status of those breakers when you arrived to 8
check them?
9f 10I Guir1RIE:
When I arrived in that area I observed that the ventilation
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11 fans were off; extremely hot and humid conditions.
I believe that 12!
there were three or four breakers that were tripped which we reset.
I 13l Radiation levels was abnormally high, close to the record.
145 15; HUNTEA OK.
The vent fans were off.
Carl, is there any reason they 16!
were off that you' re aware of?
Did they have a loss of a buss or power 17 supply
.?
18j 19l GUTHRIE:
No, I believe that you will find that those were off because 20!
of the temperature and humidity in that area and the automatic fire 21,l system which has a trip, on the fans.
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l lt' HUNTER:
Is t;1ere an alarm in the control room that would indicate that 2l' those fans had automatically tripped due to high temperature or fire 31 l
alarm type trip or fire type trip?
4j Sl GUTHRIE:
There is an alarm in the control room on the fire system 6
panel which tells you of trouble in a specific area.
I don't know, if 7
it specifically, tells you that to trip the fans or if its a trouble 8
alarm that comes on a temperature sensor.
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10 HUNTER:
And the trouble alarm would indicate that somebody should go 11l down and find out what the problem is in that area?
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13!
GUTHRIE:
Yes.
14!
15' HUNTER:
You say that this nas been plauging you fellows for a while, 16-the high temperatures in that area?
17l 18!
GUTHRIE:
That has been a problem, but you must realize that at the 19?
time that was not the sole alarm.
Of the many, many alarms that are in l
20j the control rocm, that was probably the only one that was going.
21!
i 22l HUNTER:
I understand.
OK.
You've been having problems with pressurizer 23l heaters due to the higher temperatures in that room apparently, previously.
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ilt; GUTHRIE:
That is correct.
2:
I 3
HUNTER:
There are local breakers.
Is my understanding correct that if 4!
the local breakers trip, you do not in the control room know that they 5
have are tripped?
6i I
7 GUTHRIE:
That is correct.
8 9f HUNTER:
You have to go actually and look at the breakers.
10l lll GUTHRIE:
That is true.
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13l HUNTER:
OK. All right, after you had checked the pressurizer heater i
14' breakers did you go back to the control room and indicate to Bryan 15 Mehler or somebody that the pressurizer heater breakers were all normal 16I or back to normal?
17l 18!
GUTHRIE:
Yes I did, but I did it after I had went over to the adjoining 191 area where the fire system panel for that area is lccated and reset the 20j same and returned to tr'e pressurizer heater area and restarted the 21l local fans there.
Then I proceeded to the control room and notified, I 221 believe it was the shift foreman that we had reset the breakers.
23, 24 25j
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l{l HUNTER:
OK, and the actual fire system down below indicated that the 2
fans had been tripped and you reset the fans?
f i
GUTHRIE:
Right.
What we did 'specifically was not reset the fans, we ci defeated the fire signal enabling it to run the fans, t
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I HUNTER:
OK 81 9
GUTHRIE:
On the basis that there was no visual evidence of a fire in 10!
the area.
11' 12 HUNTER:
At that particular point, you reestablished the fans; would i
13l the alarms, the fire alarms, the high temperature alarms clear or would t
14!
they continue?
15; 16 GUTHRIE:
No, that alarm would be then locked in and you would not have 171 a status of any fire in the area.
I 18!
i 19t HUNTER:
OK.
The area that we're speaking of, would you describe the 20l area, specifically its location where the pressurizer panels are located, I
21l the heater panels.
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GUTHRIE:
That area is adjoining the reactor building and at the base 2l' of the control building.
It's below ground and contains electrical 31 i
switchgear for pressurizer heaters and ventilation fans and also it has 41 l
turbine-driven emergency feed pump in that area.
Going through that Si l
area is the four steam lines exiting the redctor building going to the turbine building to the turbine.
7 8
HUNTER:
OK Carl, thank you. Is the high at a previous event that had 9
occurred in that area, apparently a diaphram on a piece of equipment 10!
had ruptured and they had steam leak into that room.
Are you aware of t
11!
that particular event?
12:
131 GUTHRIE:
That's correct.
14!
15; HUNTER:
And have you had trouble with the pressurizer heater breaker 16i since that time or are the problems with the thermal trips on the 17 breakers and the high temperature in that room related to just the fact 181 that the steam lines are there ano emergency heat pump is there?
19 20j GUTHRIE:
I think the problem on the pressurizer heaters has existed 21i previously to the atmospheric relief expansion joint failure.
It's due 22 I would say to the temperature and humidity.
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HUNTER:
OK.
With a looking at the normal operator's tours would the 2'!
operators make tours through that room routinely?
3 i
4'!
GUTHRIE:
That is correct probably once an eight-hour shift.
Si HUNTER:
0K.
After you had reset the fans and checked the heater 7
breakers, then you went back to the control room.
Do you recall your after indicating to the Control Room Shift Supervisor foreman that the 9i heaters went on, do you recall your next activity?
10[
l ll!
GUTHRIE:
Not specifically.
I assisted in monitoring the computer 12!
alarm printout and various functions in the control room.
i 13J 14 HUNTER:
OK Carl, maybe the best thing to do is talk about the things 15' that you did, that way things, should come back.
I realize that it is 16!
quite late after the event, but looking at the computer alarm functions lj!
or demand what were you looking at?
18; 19l GUTHRIE:
I was looking at the alarm printout, acknowledging any alarms 20f that came up on the computer, checking the alarms as they printed out i
2h to make sure that there was not a condition that might of happened and 22 that we were aware of any unknown condition that came up on that needed 23!
our attention. However, that is not too fruitful because generally when 24, 25l d
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you have a lot of alarms on the computer it backs up the memory for as t
2!
i much as an hour or two at a time and what's is being printed out it is 31 j
as much as one hour previous.
4l l
Si HUNTER:
OK, and would you say that would describe what was being printed out while you were there.
That the data was about an hour or 7
so old?
8 9l 3UTHRIE:
That's correct.
i 10l i
11l HUNTER:
OK Carl, and another thing, we have, when we go back to look 12l at the computer p-intouts there is a time, there is some information i
13i that is missing, and realizing that after you have a trip that it's 14I backlogged very heavily.
We would like to ask you if you in fact know 15' that when you were reading, we'll call it reading information the time 16 frame which you were seeing the alarms and then we'll talk about when 17 this information was missing and whether or not you have any feeling 18[
for what happened.
19I 20!
RESNER:
We'll give you a littla time to think about that one and cut 21 off the tape.
The time now is 8:0F a.m., Eastern Daylight Time.
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1f RESNER:
Resner speaking.
We have changed the tape.
The time is now 2'
08:08 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time, on May 18, 1979.
We will pick up 3f with Mr. Guthrie's answer to Mr. Hunter's question.
4j HUNTER:
Hunter speaking.
Carl, we were talking of about you asking 6
for, reviewing alarm printouts on the alarm typer, the computer typer, 7
did you ask for information to be printed out?
Did you request any I
8l information or were you just reviewing the alarm typer?
9l 10j GUTHRIE:
No, I didn't ask for any, 11!
12l HUNTER:
Did you look at the power operated relief valve tailpipe 13 temperatures? Was that part of, do you recall seeing those alarms.
14!
15; GUTHRIE:
No I don't remember seeing them.
16!
i 1~7l HUNTER:
We have a, if you were reading the computer at like 6:3C or 1S[
so, is that the timeframe that you were actually looking at the alarm 19!
computer?
20j 21:
GUTHRIE:
Wcll, that may be iust a bit early.
It's probably more like 22I a quarter of seven or seven o' clock when I first started looking at it.
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HUNTER:
And when you were looking at the alarm typer, there was nothing i
2' unusual about the alarm typer.
The paper was there and it was folding 3
back and there was nothing missing on the alarm typer at that time.
4l c;!
HUNTER:
There were no missing times that you were aware of?
61 7f GUTHRIE:
I saw no problem with it.
I did not specifically look for 8
missing times, but I 'idn't notice any.
9j 10' HUNTER:
Did you notice any paper jam or see anybody unjam it and put 11l the paper back in, that type of thing?
12 13 GUTHRIE:
No I did not see that.
14!
15 HUNTER:
OK. And you reviewed the alarm '.yper.
Did you see anything 16:
unusual or did something strike your attention that was unusual while 17l you were reading those alarms?
181 19:
GUTHRIE:
No, not considering the plant conditions.
Most of the infor-20!
mation there had happened since the time before.
Most of it was irrelevant l
21l material.
22 23 1
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!lt HUNTER:
Do you have a feel for bow.eng before that, that you were 2:
actually seeing data? What the time frame war? Was it like an hour 31 from an nour - lat's say 6:45 would it be an hour before that two hours i
4
before that?
5l l
CUTHRIE:
I don't remember the time on the typewriter.
7 8
HUNTER:
Do you recall the, when the typer was in fa:t not typing out 9
heavily and it was actually - or was it continuously typing out all the 10[
time you were there?
11; 12 GUTHRIE:
I would say that it was almost continuous.
I 13!
14!
HUNTER:
OK.
Do you recall any, anccher activity that you were involved 15; in early in the morning.
16!
17!
GUTHRIE:
Well the other activity that I was involved in was the prepa-18!
rations being made to possibly put the reactor coolant system on decay 19f removal.
One of the things that was required to do that is to fire up 20!
the breaker for the suction valves, the decay heat removal.
- Normally, 21l that system takes its suction from the borated watar storage tank and 22l its suction valve from that tank is kept in an ES condition of open ar.d 23' its breaker open.
Its two breakers are located in the auxiliary building 24 305' elevation one of the engineering safety features switchgear.
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previously stated that plans were to eventually, possibly put the decay 2;'
heat removal system in operation which would require powering up lireing i
31 up breakers to get an alternate suction from the RCS and I went in and 4!
closed the breakers, removed the locks from these breakers and left the Si area.
While I was in the area I found that I was contaminated to such 6l an extent that I had to proceed to Unit 1 to be decontaminated.
7l 0
HUNTER:
Carl, do you have the time frame on when you went into the 9!
auxiliary building to close those breakers, generally.
Was it early 10l morning, mid-morning?
lli 12I GUTHRIE:
Very rough, I would say mid-morning and I was probably out of i
13{
the building around 10:30 or 11:00 o' clock, something like that.
I 14 15 HUNTER:
OK.
Would the procedure that day then wouid be to undress and 15:
tnen go to Unit 1 to be decontaminated? Was that the normal path?
17l 18l GUTHRIEi Only if you was contaminated.
Which you, you know, you could 19!
tell by checking yourself with a portable radiation meter.
20' I
21l HUNTER-Did you have pencil self reader, self reading dosimetry with 22 you on that entry and that you monitored that you checked your exposure 23l while you were in there?
24l 25!
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i, 11 GUTHRIE:
No, the time I spent in there was very short.
I would say a 2'
j maximum of maybe five minutes.
31 l
4!
HUNTER:
Who was with you on that tour?
I 6l GUTHRIE:
I was by mysel f.-
7 O!
HUNTER:
And you indicated that you were decontaminated and then went 9
to Unit 1. Was there any problem in getting decontaminated?
10!
l 11 GUTHRIE:
That is not exactly correct.
I was contaminated and I had to 12l put on overcovers or over clothing in order to proceed to Unit 1 to be 13!
decontaminated in their shower.
14!
15!
HUNTER:
And did you have any problems then getting decontaminated in 16; the shower?
17l l
18l GUTHRIE:
Well, I heard then that it is a v j time consuming process 19l and after about four or five showers yot'r levels are down to probably 20l what the background was in that area which was not very low.
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18 lt HUNTER:
OK.
When you were in the Auxiliary Building, did you step in 2l' any water cr anything or was it gaseous and particulate activity that 31 you apparently were contaminated with?
t 4!
"I GUTHRIE:
Well it was apparently gaseous and parti ulate.
There was no OI water that I observed that was strictly on the 305 level.
Based upon a relative short half life and the rapid decay of cctivity in the body 8!
afterwards, I would say most of it was, in fact, gaseous activity.
9i 10 HUNTER:
Did you have a, carry a hand radiation detector with you when 11l you went in to close the valves?
12!
i 13l GUTHRIE:
Yes I did.
14i 15 HUNTER:
Do you recall reading that detector while you were in there?
16 17l GUTHRIE:
I believe it was in the area of one to two "R" 18l 19f HUNTER:
OK you indicated that those valves had locks on them because 20l they are ES valves, they are normally, the breakers, are normally 21;l opened and locked in the open position?
i 22l I
2 31 GUTHRIE:
That's correct.
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HUNTER:
Well are they break away locks?
2:
1 31 GUTHRIE:
No they are a lock that requires a key for it.
4i l
c-1 HUNTER:
So, do you have a key, each shift foreman have a key to those 6l ES type locks? The safeguard locks?
7!
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GUTHRIE:
There is a key vittle, you know, in the control room for 9f locked valve locks.
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11!
HUNTER:
Wnen you went in there, Carl, was there a discussion about a 12!
buddy system or any concern about going into that area as one person, l$(
as an individual?
14 15 GUTHRIE:
At the time, of the available manpower and the state of 16 confusion, it was not very well organized.
17]
18i HUNTER:
OK Carl, and then you, after you were, become, to be contaminated 19i and you..
Did you remain in Unit 1 until you went home that day?
20l 21f GUTHRIE:
That is correct.
While I was being decontaminated they 2
evacuated the Unit 1 HP area to Unit 1 control room.
I stayed in the 23; Unit 1 control room for I would say for two or three hours.
Following i
2d; that, I lef t the site and was over at the temporary area for people 25!
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leaving the site.
It, was at 500 KV sub and radiation levels on my 2
body then was too high to leave so I stayed for another couple of i
3i i
hours.
4j i
G' HUNTER:
OK, then did you get a whole body count fairly quickly after 6
that, after the 28th?
I mean, did you get a
.?
7 8
GUTHRIE:
I guess that it was a couple of days later.
Si 10 HUNTER:
Tim, any particular questions?
11:
12 MARTIN:
No.
t l
13!
14!
RESNER:
Mr. Martin has indicated that he doesn't have an" 'uestions.
I 15; 16!
HUNTER:
OK.
There is another area that I want to talk, that we want r
17l to discuss, Carl and I want to - OK Carl there is another area that I 18l would like to touch base with you on and get a feel for - this particular 19l activity.
During the trip on the 28th, the motor-driven, steamdriven 20l auxiliary feed pumps started, come up to discharge pressure but the 12 I
21l A&B valves were closed.
And we've been looking at that area specifically 22!
and it appears that they were left closed after doing a surveillance on 23!
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the 26th, OK? And the records show that you, as a shift foreman, that that surveillance was done on your shift and that you signed the surveil-3!
lance data sheet.
The surveillance data sheet, do you recall that?
i 4I 5i j
GUTHRIE:
That is correct.
Si J
HUNTER:
OK and can you give us a brief synopsis of the way you handle 8l this type of surveillance - this specific surveillance so that we then h
can discuss this particular area in more detail?
The scheduling, what I
10 you, how you handled it and what you did?
11; 12 GUTHRIE:
Well I take it, - I'd like clarification of the question.
I 13!
take it what you want to know is, in general, how do we handle surveil-14l lances.
Is that correct?
15 16' HUNTER:
Yes, just start off in general how you handle the surveillances, lij and knowing realizing that we're talking about this particular one -
18!
now you handled it and then we'll proceed with that.
19i 20j GUTHRIE:
OK.
We work from a surveillance schedule which is a computer 21!
printout based upon Tech Spec requirements.
This computer printout is l
22 periodically sent to the control room.
Each survillance has what we 2$j call a green sheet for performing that surveillance showing date it's i
2dl due, early date, late date.
The surveillance precedure also contains 25\\
I o,,
- r O i Jw U
22 i
I 1!
an area for signoff by tne person performing the surveillance and his 2'
{
immediate supervisor.
The general method of handling surveillances is 3i working from the green sheets.
A shift foreman reviews the green i
4' sheets for a specific day, selects his surveillances, runs a copy of c
the surveillance procedure log and attaches it to the green sheet, and 6l gives it to a control room operator who is assigned surveillance functions for that day.
That contrcl room operator working in conjunction with 8
an auxiliary operator - or more - will perform the surveillance.
The 9
auxiliary operator does the functions on the equipment in the plant.
10 The control room operator handles the remote controls indication in the 11 control room.
Upon ccmpletion, the aux operator returns the entire 12!
xeroxed procedure to the control room.
The control room operator 13 reviews it.
The aux operator has signed it, signed all of the applicable 14!
steps in the procedure and the data sheet and fills in the appropriate 15i data.
The CR0 has reviewed it and returns it to the shift foreman for 16i final approval and review and station staff.
l 17l 181 HUNTER:
OK Carl, let me clarify a couple of points and make sure that 19t I understand.
You indicated that the - and I have in my hand a copy of 20l 2303 M 27A and B which is in fact the motor-driven emergency feed pump 21!
functional test and valve operability test - and this a control copy 22 that we had obtained out of the file that's is maintained in the control i
23) room where you also would get a, the control copy and make a copy for i
241 the operators to use.
25i J
i
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23 i
i l!
GUTHRIE:
That's correct.
2!
l 31 HUNTER:
O K.
In this particular instance - when you make a copy - and 4!
indicate you make a copy of the procedure - do you..
would you make a c!
copy of the complete procedure? Meaning, page 1, for instance, all the 61 way through and including the data sheets.
7!
l 0l GUTHRIE:
Yes we copy it in its entirety, including the cover sheet and
- \\.
page 0 through page whatever.
10j l
11 HUNTER:
OK.
New that woula include then, for instance, in this particular 12 Section, Section 6 say is procedure and 6.1 is for a particular activity 13 but it says emergency feed pamp A or B valve tests.
And valve tests, 14 and then it says initial the procedure as you go through and do the 15 steps.
16:
17f GUTHRIE:
That is correct.
18(
19' HUNTER:
The control room operator or the~ auxiliary operator would, in 20!
fact, normally perform these steps and initial the steps.
21 22f GUTHRIE:
That is correct.
23j 24 25!
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24 I]t HUNTER:
And the green sheet that's a computer printout which really is 2'
]
the routing sheet for this particular type surveillance is also signed 3t i
by the Control - the Auxiliary Operator or the operator and then you 4l l
countersign that green sheet, in fact.
Is that correct?
i 5
Gi GUTHRIE:
That is correct.
7 l
8 HUNTER:
When you countersign the green sheet, that would indicate that 9
the surveillance'had been completa?
10j i
11l GUTHRIE:
That's right.
I 12l l
13 HUNTER:
Do you do a1y specific activity associated with signing the 14) green sheets?
For instance, would you in fact verify, personally 15i verify, or is there a requirement to verify, any of the activities or 16l do you review that the sheets and the data sheet and the prccedure is l$
complete?
18i 19:
GUTHRIE:
I review the data sheets, review the data that is on the data 2d!
sheets, look at it based upon the acceptance criteria which is generally 21{
in the front of the procedure to insure that it meets the requirements.
22f And all data is complete and that the data sheet is filled out properly..
23!
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1 HUNTER:
0K Carl, for instance looking at data sheet A in this particular 2!
procedure there is a data sheet A performed by....
Would that normally 31 be signed by the operator?
i 4!
i 51 RESNER:
Resner speaking.
The tape cut us short at 08:27 a.m. and the 61 time now is 08:30 a.c.
We put a new tape in and we'll continue where we got cut off.
81 i
HUNTER:
Hunter speaking, we were discussing the data sheet A on the 10 procedure 2303 M 27"a" and "b" concerning the emergency feedwater 11 pumps.
We had just, Mr. Guthrie, Carl, has just indicated that the lk!
signatures on the bottom of the data sheet as indicated " Performed By" l
131 would be signed a operator who performed the particular surveillance.
14 And then Carl who would have assigned the approved signature on this 15t particular data sheet?
16 17 GUTHRIE:
Yes, I would sign that.
There may be more than one operator 18!
sign that depending on exactly what the surveillance is.
If the surveil-19) lance required positioniig of control valves in the control room then 20l probably the CR0 would sign that portion of it.
Generally, it is quite 21:
explicit, specific areas of it being signed by aux operator and others 22 by the control room operator.
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26 1;
HUNTER:
OK.
Thank you.
The shift foreman are normally the shift i
2 personnel who handle the surveillance?
Is that specifically one of your activities that you handle on a daily basis?
c GUTHRIE:
Yes.
6 7
HUNTER:
That is required?
8 i
91 GUTHRIE:
That is true. Looking at the way you have the plant set up
{
10' you have on a routine shift, you have a foreman for Unit 1 and a foreman 1!
for Unit 2 and then a shift supervisor who is over both units?
12, i
13l GUTHRIE: That is correct.
141 15 HUNTER:
OK and then I did notice, Carl, that in the procedure, getting 16!
back to Section 6 which is the procedure, there are steps in the specific 1Yi procedure that indicate performance of certain activities and it would 38!
include as an example, a step which indicJ es to perform Appendix A or 19i B valve lineup and also there is a place to initial these particular 20{
steps.
I notice that this particular section of the procedure was not 21!
available in this case.
Can you ccament on that? What would I normally 22 expect to find during this activity and if it's not there, how do the i
23l cperators use this particular section?
24l 25j
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27 11 GUTHRIE:
Well, bcsically our procedure is in two parts.
The first L
2f part is a body of the procedure explaining the steps necessary to the 31, perform procedure and detailed directions.
The latter part is generally 4l a data sheet which is filled out recording the results of the surveillance, ci
- j valve times, pump discharge pressures, etc. etc.
6i l
7 HUNTER:
I'm just reading off the form.
8 9l GUTHRIE:
Normally all this that is turned or is returncd to me is just 10j the cover sheet and data sheets.
ll!
I 12l HUNTER:
OK Carl, the cover sheet being the computer schedule the green t
131 sheet?
14!
15!
GUTHRIE:
That is correct.
16 171 HUNTER:
And, on which you would have signed and also the data sheet 18l which would be attached below to the green sheet which would then also i
19t
'be signed by the person or persons performing the test and approved by 20j you.
This then as I understand it, you said, this then would be forwarded l
21 to the plant staff for analysis or review.
22l t
GUTHRIE:
That's correct.
23j 24l 25I i n C, u
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l 28
,b
]
HUNTER:
...In accordance with your surveillance procedures.
- Carl, 2i j
this particular procedure was performed on the 26th by one of the AB on 3\\
your shift.
4i c;
- l GUThRIE:
That's correct.
6i 7)
HJNTER:
And for this particular procedure, 27A and B, is that routine 8
that the Auxiliary Operator perform this particular surveillance?
Is 9f that normal? Is that one of his normal jobs?
101 l
11:
GUTHRIE:
Yes in conjunction with the control room operator who is i
12 giving him directions and assistance on it.
13l 14!
HUNTER:
OK, the control room operator, for instance, coordinating the 15:
effort, the control room operator has on the control board the start /stop 16' switches on the emergency feedwater pumps, for instance.
t 17!
18l GUTHRIE:
That is correct.
19!
20j HUNTER:
He then also has like the certain motor-operated valves, 21l including the 12 valves, the five on valves the ontrol board, so if 22l those particular switches need manipulated, would it normally be the t
23!
control room operator who manipulates the switch or might it be the 24 auxiliary operator who comes up and actually manipulates the switches 25; under the control room operator's direction?
/o U v )r r ri.-
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29 i
i t
'{
GUTHRIE:
No, I Liink you'll find it's a pretty hard and fast rule that 2I j
the auxiliary operators never operate any switches on the control 31 console. It's always the control room operator. The control room operator 4!
has the license, the reactor operator's license and the auxiliary 5
operator is not licensed.
Henceforth, it's a requirement that CR0's do 6i that.
7l 8l HUNTER:
Carl at this particular time, I don't have any more questions 9f on this particular item.
If you have any questions or comments, feel 10l free to ask or comment.
I would request of you that after we take the 11 first cut on this area and your particular activities, we may in fact l
nead to reschedule you for another interview, but at the present time I 13f don't have anymore questions.
14!
P 15 GUTHRIE:
Well, I have a coupla of comments in general.
OK.
We view 16; the the handling of the surveillance by the control room operator in a 17I manner such that we present them with the complete procedure.
He is i
18l responsible to direct auxiliary cperaters in performing that procedure 19i and to insure that it is done correctly and is compiete.
Unfortunately, 20j due to the workload, paperwork, etc., on a shift foreman, each individual 2l procedure cannot be reviewed in depth, step by step as would be the 22!
ideal situation.
Ou the date in question you will find approximately i
23l l
24l 25; I
/OG nn' (8OJ U.c
[
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r 1!
l six surveillances we had accomplished.
This is in addition to our responsibilities for handling people, probably c triple shift, and all 3l the other collateral duties.
4l l
c*i j
_H]UNTER: OK Carl, if you mind, I'll retract and ask a couple of questions.
6!
This is a very interesting area.
The comment was that yc.; m'ue was 7
that there were six procedures run appro,.. _
ly that daj. Obviously, O
I'm not dealing in numbers, was that on the day shift that you were 9f asked to perform these surveillances?
10l 11 GUTHRIE:
That is correct, and I am looking here at a copy from the 12l Shift Foreman's log.
13l 14 HUNTER:
OK, and was that was the surveillance routinely done on days 15' or do they actually do surveillance on other shifts also?
16 17 GUTHRIE:
No, it's routinely done on days unless such a situation 18:
arises that requires that you do it otherwise.
There are basics for 191 that, I don't know if you would like for me to go into that or not.
20j 21l HUNTER:
Fine, I think it's appropriate that you indicate the reason 22!
the schedule is the way it is. 'Cause I think it is important.
23!
2.4!
25:
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31 1!
GUTHRIE:
Well, basically, surveillances generally are done on days, weekdays upecifically, because certain Tech Spec requirements spell out t
31 l
ACTION STATEMENTS with time limits anywhere from two hours to 30 minutes.
4!
j It is very difficult to enter into ACTION STATEMENT because of piece of c'
~
equipment being found out of service on a surveillance at 1:00 in the morning and attempting to provide the necessary manpower and maintenance I
7 to return that piece of equipment to operative status at that time of 8
the day.
9I i
10l HUNTER:
That makes it very difficult to get the maintenance people in 11!
or get help if you need to work, to get it returned to service.
12l I
13l GUTHRIE:
That is correct.
14' 15.
HUNTER:
Do you have extra people on day shift operations people
'.o 16!
help in surveillance?
17!
l 18!
GUTHRIES: Yes, generally the way it has been.;ing there is a relief l$!
shift who works surveillances four days out of five work days.
Being 20!
the second day is not done surveillance because the relief shift actually 1
21 is on shift and there is no other people on.
i 22!
i
'3F HUNTER:
I see, the nc,.al day shift crew is on its day off at that i
24 time and that's they're "illing in that particular day.
25i f
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32 I
i i
1 GUTHRIE:
Ttat's correct.
2:
3l HUNTER:
OK, you ccmmented that due to the workload you were having i
M difficulty reviewing all the procedures?
Is that just that the number i
0 of procedures and also the day to day activities of the plant, switching 6l and tagging, operating other equipment, handling problems, that type of 71 activity?
I a!
9f GUTHRIE:
Well, that's true in general difficult in the sense that you 10 can't do a step by step review of the procedure. Don't forget that some 11l of these procedures may be as much as 100 pages in the t,ody of the l
12l procedure when you get into an ESAF system surveillance.
i 13l 14I HUNTER:
OK Carl, you in iicated that you were on day shift.
Who were 15; your control room operators that were involved in this particular 16 surveillance?
I know the control room operators split up, one is on 17!
the, you know, one is like a switch and tagging operator and one is the 18!
board.
Do you recall who was on the board? The one who would have been 19l involved in the emergency feedpump valves?
20; 21l GUTHRIE:
I believe the individual was Earl Hemmi'a, control r,om 221 operator.
23l 24!
25l o3 L
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33 l
l l]'
HUNTER:
Could you spell his name, please?
2; GUTHRIE:
Earl-E A R L-H E M M I L A i
4!
5 HUNTER:
0K, and the auxiliary operator who performed the surveillance we have his.ame because he signed off the actual data sheets and the i
I!
green sheets and we have him scheduled for an interview, so that's 1
8l fine.
Any other comments, Carl?
These are appreciated by the way 3l because the apparent lack of review of a completed surveillance procedure i
10f by a respensible supervisor appears to be a very critical item..and I
11!
I'm not, and it's duly noted and that's all I'll say.
i 12l i
13l GUTHRIE:
No, I don't believe that I have any further comment at this 14!
time.
15, 16' RESNER:
OK, this is Resner speaking. Thank you very much for your time 17!'
Mr. Guthrie in coming over here. We will conclede the interview.
The i
18f time is 08:44 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time.
19-20 21l 22!
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