ML15181A225
| ML15181A225 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Columbia  |
| Issue date: | 06/12/2015 |
| From: | Watford M Plant Licensing Branch IV |
| To: | |
| Watford M | |
| References | |
| NRC-1653, TAC MF6268 | |
| Download: ML15181A225 (24) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
10 CFR 2.206 Petition Review Board RE Columbia Generating Station Docket Number: 50-397 Location: teleconference Date: Friday, June 12, 2015 Work Order No.: NRC-1653 Pages 1-23 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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10 CFR 2.206 PETITION REVIEW BOARD (PRB)
CONFERENCE CALL RE:
COLUMBIA GENERATING STATION
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FRIDAY JUNE 12, 2015
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The conference call was held at 1:30 p.m.,
George Wilson, Chairperson of the Petition Review Board, presiding.
PETITIONERS: CHARLES JOHNSON & PEGGY MAZE JOHNSON PETITION REVIEW BOARD MEMBERS:
GEORGE WILSON Deputy Director Division of Operator Reactor Licensing NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 C O N T E N T S Page Introduction of Participants.......................3 Introduction of Proceedings........................7 Chairman Wilson Remarks............................7 Summary of the Petition............................9 Presentation by Charles Johnson...................11 Presentation by Peggy Maze Johnson................15 Presentation by Charles Johnson...................17 Public Comment....................................19 Comment by Mr. Gregoire...........................20 Summary of Comments...............................21 Closing Remarks...................................22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 1:31 p.m.
3 MS. WATFORD: Okay, I'd like to thank 4 everybody for attending this meeting today. My name 5 is Maggie Watford and I am an NRC Project Manager in 6 the Division of Operating Reactor Licensing at the U.S.
7 Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
8 We are here today to allow the Petitioners, 9 Chuck -- Charles or Chuck Johnson and Peggy Johnson, 10 to address the Petition Review Board regarding the 11 2.206 Petition dated March 13, 2015.
12 I am the Petition Manager for this 13 Petition. The Petition Review Board Chairman is 14 George Wilson. As part of the Petition Review Board's 15 or PRB's review of this Petition, Chuck Johnson and 16 Peggy Johnson have requested this opportunity to 17 address the PRB.
18 This meeting is scheduled from 1:30 p.m.
19 to 2:30 p.m. Eastern. The meeting is being recorded 20 by the NRC Operations Center. And will be transcribed 21 by a Court Reporter.
22 The transcript will become a supplement to 23 the Petition. The transcript will also be made 24 publically available.
25 I'd like to open this meeting with NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 introductions. The PRB Chair is George Wilson. I'd 2 like the rest of the Petition Review Board to introduce 3 themselves.
4 As we go around the room, please be sure 5 to clearly state your name, your position, and the 6 office that you work for within the NRC for the Record.
7 So, I'll start off.
8 Again, this is Maggie Watford. I'm the 9 Petition Manager, and I'm with NRR [Office of Nuclear 10 Reactor Regulation].
11 CHAIRMAN WILSON: George Wilson, I'm the 12 Deputy Director of the Division of Operating Reactor 13 Licensing. And I'm the PRB Chair.
14 *MR. SHERMA: Amen Sherma, Nuclear 15 Security Branch, NRR.
16 MR. GULLA: Gerry Gulla, Enforcement 17 Specialist, Office of Enforcement.
18 MS. BANIC: Lee Banic, Petitioner 19 Coordinator, NRR.
20 MS. WATFORD: All right. That is 21 everyone at NRC Headquarters. Are there any NRC 22 participants from the Regional or from the Headquarters 23 first on the phone?
24 MR. MARKLEY: Mike Markley, NRR Branch 25 Chief, DORL [Division of Operating Reactor Licensing].
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5 1 MR. SINGAL: This is Balwant Singal, 2 Project Manager for Columbia from Headquarters 3 [Division of Operating Reactor Licensing].
4 MR. PURTSCHER: And this is Pat PURTSCHER.
5 I'm a member of DE, the Department of Engineering, EVIB 6 [Vessels and Internals Integrity Branch in NRR].
7 MS. JEHLE: Patricia Jehle, Office of the 8 General Counsel with NRC.
9 MR. POEHLER: Yes, this is Jeff Poehler 10 from NRR, Division of Engineering, Vessel and Internals 11 Integrity Branch.
12 MS. WATFORD: Are there any other NRC 13 participants from Headquarters on the phone?
14 MR. STEVENS: Yes. There's a Gary 15 Stevens, NRR Vessel and Internals Integrity Branch.
16 MS. WATFORD: All right. Are there any 17 NRC participants from the Regional Office on the phone?
18 MS. GEPFORD: Heather Gepford, Branch 19 Chief for Plant Support, Branch 2 in Region IV.
20 MR. DRAKE: Jim Drake, Senior Reactor 21 Inspector, Region IV.
22 MS. WATFORD: Are there any other NRC 23 members that I missed?
24 (No response) 25 MS. WATFORD: Okay, are there any NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 representatives for the Licensee on the phone?
2 MR. GREGOIRE: Yes. This is Don 3 Gregoire, Regulatory Affairs Manager. And I'm also 4 here joined with John Dobken from our Public Affairs 5 organization and Steve Richter from our Engineering 6 organization.
7 MS. WATFORD: Are there any 8 representatives from the public on the line today?
9 MS. NEWELL: This is Nancy Newell from 10 Oregon Green Energy Coalition.
11 MS. WATFORD: All right. I think that's 12 all for the introductions unless I missed anyone.
13 Okay, so Chuck Johnson and Peggy Johnson, would you 14 please introduce yourselves for the record?
15 MR. JOHNSON: Okay. Hang on just a 16 second. Sorry, what was -- what did you just ask?
17 MS. WATFORD: Just a quick, little 18 introduction and then I'll proceed with the rest of our 19 intro.
20 MR. JOHNSON: Okay. So, yes, I'm Chuck 21 Johnson. And I'm with the Oregon and Washington 22 Chapters of Physicians for Social Responsibility, the 23 Joint Task Force on Nuclear Power.
24 MS. JOHNSON: My name is Peggy Maze 25 Johnson. I'm Project Manager for Heart of America NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 Northwest in the State of Washington.
2 MS. WATFORD: Okay, thank you. I'm going 3 to continue on. It is not required for members of the 4 public to introduce themselves for this call.
5 However, if there -- oh, we already did this.
6 If there are any members of the public that 7 wish to do so at this time, please state your name for 8 the record. And I think we already did that.
9 I'd like to emphasize that we need -- we 10 each need to speak clearly and loudly to make sure that 11 the Court Reporter can accurately transcribe this 12 meeting. If you do have something that you would like 13 to say, to please first state your name for the record.
14 For those dialing into the meeting, please 15 remember to mute your phones to minimize any background 16 noise or distraction. If you do not have a mute button, 17 this can be done by pressing the keys star six. And 18 to unmute you can press star six again. Thank you.
19 At this time we'll turn it over to the PRB 20 Chairman, George Wilson.
21 CHAIRMAN WILSON: I want to welcome 22 everybody to this meeting regarding the 2.206 Petition 23 submitted by Charles Johnson and Peggy Johnson. I'd 24 first like to share some background on our 2.206 25 process.
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8 1 Section 2.206 of Title 10 of the Code of 2 Federal Regulations describes the Petition process, 3 the primary mechanism for the public to request 4 enforcement action by the NRC in a public process.
5 This process permits anyone to petition the NRC to take 6 enforcement type action related to NRC licensees or 7 licensed activities.
8 Depending on the results of its 9 evaluations, the NRC could modify, suspend or revoke 10 an NRC issued license. Or take any other appropriate 11 enforcement action to resolve a problem.
12 The NRC staff's guidance for the 13 disposition of the 2.206 Petition requests are located 14 in Management Directive 8.11, which is publically 15 available.
16 The purpose of today's meeting is to give 17 the Petitioners an opportunity to provide any 18 additional explanation or support the Petition before 19 the Petition Review Board's initial consideration and 20 recommendation.
21 This meeting is not a hearing nor is it an 22 opportunity for the Petitioner to question or examine 23 the PRB on the merits or the issues presented in the 24 Petition request. No decisions regarding the merits 25 of this Petition will be made at this meeting.
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9 1 Following the meeting, the Petition Review 2 Board will conduct its internal deliberations. The 3 outcome of this internal meeting will be discussed with 4 the Petitioners.
5 The Petitioner Review Board typically 6 consists of a Chairman, a Manager at the Senior 7 Executive Service level, and that's myself. It has a 8 Petitioner Manager and a PRB Coordinator.
9 Other members of the Board are determined 10 by the NRC staff based on the content of the information 11 requested. The members have already introduced 12 themselves.
13 As described in our process, the NRC staff 14 may have clarifying questions in order to better 15 understand the Petitioners' presentation. And to 16 reach a reasoned decision whether to accept or reject 17 Petitioners' request for review under the 2.206 18 process.
19 At this time I'd like to summarize the 20 scope of the Petition under consideration and the NRC 21 activities to date.
22 On May 13, 2015, you submitted to the NRC 23 a Petition under 2.206 regarding Columbia Generating 24 Station, on which you requested a number of actions.
25 The major actions included concern modifying the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 1 operating license and/or suspend the restart of the 2 Columbia Generating Station until a known crack in the 3 jet pump riser well is repaired.
4 Allow me to discuss at this time the NRC 5 activities to date. On May 27, 2015, the PRB reviewed 6 your request for immediate action to prevent Columbia 7 Generating Station restart and determined that there 8 were no significant concerns to prevent the plant from 9 restarting as scheduled.
10 The NRC has reviewed the licensee's 11 evaluation of the crack in the jet pump riser to riser 12 brace well (RS9) for jet pump repair 17 and 18 in the 13 report dated April 14, 2015 and concluded that it does 14 not pose a threat to the reactor or other plant 15 components.
16 Based on the review of the licensee's 17 evaluation related to the crack in the jet pump riser 18 weld, there were no immediate safety -- no immediate 19 significant safety concerns to prevent the plant from 20 restarting as scheduled.
21 Your request for the immediate actions to 22 prevent Columbia Generating Station restart did not 23 have adequate basis. Therefore your request to 24 prevent the [Columbia Generating Station] -- from 25 restarting was denied.
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11 1 You were informed of this decision on June 2 1, 2015 from the PRB's decision to deny your request 3 for immediate action. On May 22, 2015 and June 1, 2015, 4 the Petition Manager contacted you to discuss the 10 5 CFR 2.206 process and to offer you an opportunity to 6 address the PRB.
7 You requested to address the PRB by phone 8 prior to its internal meeting to make initial 9 recommendation to accept or reject the Petition review.
10 As a reminder for the phone participants, 11 please identify yourself if you make any remarks as this 12 will help us in the preparation of the meeting 13 transcript that will be made publicly available.
14 I will at this time thank you for 15 listening. And Charles Johnson, I will turn this over 16 to you and allow you the opportunity to add any 17 additional information you believe the PRB should 18 consider as part of your Petition.
19 You have approximately 40 minutes for your 20 presentation.
21 MR. JOHNSON: Okay. Thank you very much, 22 Mr. Wilson. The main thing that I would ask the PRB 23 to consider in reconsidering your decision about having 24 the Energy Northwest repair this crack in the riser 25 inside the -- that holds the jet pumps inside the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 reactor vessel, would be the additional earthquake 2 information that has recently been reported through the 3 Fukushima required earthquake reevaluation process.
4 There was a hearing [public meeting] on 5 June 5 that took place after your June 1 decision, in 6 which the results were presented to the public. And 7 during that hearing [public meeting], I noticed that 8 there was considerable discussion between the NRC and 9 Energy Northwest's contractors about the question of 10 the magnitude and frequency of potential ground motion 11 at the site.
12 It's clear from what the decision was in 13 terms of how -- that the NRC is requiring that Energy 14 Northwest come back in two years with some sort of a 15 discussion of what they intend to do about the fact that 16 there appears to be more a potential for larger ground 17 motion then the plant was originally designed to 18 withstand.
19 That is a -- to me is a factor that really 20 needs to be more -- taken more seriously when 21 considering questions like this crack in this riser 22 inside of the reactor vessel.
23 If we had an earthquake, a sizable 24 earthquake, greater -- a beyond design earthquake that 25 caused numerous problems, including some additional NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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13 1 damage to the riser, you potentially could have water 2 draining from the reactor vessel and an inability to 3 cool it in the way that the plant was designed to 4 operate.
5 And that combined with a potentially other 6 additional problems at the site could lead to an 7 accident. And so therefore, for that reason, I think 8 you really need to take every one of these problems that 9 have been identified, extremely seriously. And 10 address them.
11 You don't want to cut into your safety 12 margin when you know that the plant is already operating 13 in an area that in the -- with a potential for beyond 14 design earthquakes that wasn't known when the plant was 15 originally approved.
16 So, that's really the -- that's the crux 17 of why we're indicating you ought to do this. Ideally, 18 you would do some sort of an ultrasound inside the 19 reactor vessel to see if there's additional cracking 20 beyond what you've already identified inside the 21 reactor vessel.
22 For example, when you did -- when this was 23 found in 2011, it was later determined in looking at 24 back photographs that there were signs that this crack 25 was appearing as early as 2001.
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14 1 It's possible that there are additional 2 cracks or weaknesses inside the reactor vessel that 3 haven't been detected yet. And its still in the 4 susceptibility for this to happen in this case.
5 And therefore, I think it really needs to 6 be looked at more broadly throughout the entire reactor 7 vessel. We're not asking for that with this particular 8 2.206 Petition.
9 We're asking simply that a known crack be 10 fixed rather then using work around of the -- adding 11 additional hydrogen to the water. Although we don't 12 know because its proprietary, we don't know exactly 13 what you're doing to compensate for the fact that you 14 have a crack in a place where it shouldn't be.
15 And therefore, we can't forward this onto 16 experts at Union of Concerned Scientists or Fairwind 17 Associates for their evaluation. And that puts us at 18 a disadvantage of really understanding upon what basis 19 you chose to say that it's okay to continue to operate 20 the plant and not fix the crack.
21 At this point, I think that's really all 22 that I have to add. I believe Peggy has some additional 23 concerns to express as well.
24 And then perhaps some members of the 25 public. I think I heard that Steve Gilbert from WPSR NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 [Washington Physicians for Social Responsibility] was 2 on. I'm not sure. But, perhaps he would want to make 3 a statement as well.
4 Thank you for your time.
5 CHAIRMAN WILSON: Peggy, do you have some 6 statements that you would like to make also?
7 MR. JOHNSON: Maybe she got bounced off 8 somehow.
9 MS. JOHNSON: Oh, I'm sorry, I had -- I was 10 obeying and I had my -- I was on mute.
11 My name is Peggy Maze Johnson. And I'm 12 with Heart of America Northwest.
13 We're an organization that's been around 14 20 years. And the reason for our existence was 15 checking out what was going on at the Hanford 16 Reservation as far as the cleanup.
17 Even though U.S. DOE [Department of 18 Energy] does not claim the Columbia Generating Station, 19 it indeed sits right in the middle of the Hanford 20 Reservation. And has, according to a report issued by 21 Robert Alvarez, has as much waste generated by the plant 22 as the whole rest of the Hanford Reservation.
23 We find that that is very serious when you 24 consider the safety of this plant. We believe that you 25 are essentially saying that the reactors are operating NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 1 outside of the license.
2 And we don't understand why you think 3 that's okay. This sits right at the mouth -- this sits 4 right on the Columbia River, which we find is a precious 5 resource for our northwest.
6 The NRC knew about the crack in 2011. But 7 we believe that they knew that it existed in 2001. And 8 we can't prove it.
9 But they have a history of not being 10 transparent. And we believe that cutting corners on 11 safety by this operator is unacceptable.
12 We have a membership in the northwest of 13 about ten thousand people that we communicate with on 14 a regular basis. And they have expressed their 15 concerns about the operation of this plant.
16 After Fukushima, it was said by various 17 people that this plant very closely replicates the 18 Daiichi plant at Fukushima. And that there was no 19 additional inspections because of that.
20 And because of the fact that it sits on this 21 earthquake fault that their safety is at risk. And we 22 find that very troubling that the NRC thinks that this 23 is okay.
24 So we are asking to please take another 25 look at this. To not allow them to operate outside of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 1 your safety standards. And wait another five years for 2 another inspection. You know, what's going to happen 3 between now and then?
4 So, please take another look at it. And 5 allow us the information so that the Union of Concerned 6 Scientists and Fairwind Associates can indeed say yes, 7 this is safe.
8 So, I will stop at that. And I thank you 9 for the opportunity to present our case to you. We find 10 that the NRC, and I know personally that the NRC's 11 standards are very high. And that it is unusual for 12 you to allow somebody to operate below that.
13 So, thank you very much for this 14 opportunity.
15 MR. JOHNSON: I have one more thing to add 16 as well. This is Chuck Johnson again.
17 The -- I do want to mention that there's 18 an additional factor that you ought to take into 19 consideration in -- as to whether or not you reverse 20 your position about allowing the continued operation 21 without fixing the crack in the riser, RS9 riser.
22 It's basically Energy Northwest's 23 operation -- current operating mode in that they're --
24 Energy Northwest seems to be showing signs these days 25 of caring more about maintaining an image of efficient NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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18 1 operation.
2 And it looks as though in the case of this 3 crack and in the case of the lack of adherence to the 4 emergency plan, which the NRC is going to be holding 5 a hearing [public meeting] with Energy Northwest next 6 week. These are examples of Energy Northwest 7 emphasizing production and downplaying some of the 8 safety needs of the plant.
9 To some degree, they are being pressured 10 regionally to show that they are economic. And we 11 believe that consequently, they're ignoring making 12 repairs and following procedures that are critical to 13 the safety of the plant.
14 And this is an extremely important example 15 of that. So, I'd ask you to consider that. There are 16 a variety of things that could go wrong in an earthquake 17 at the site.
18 There's this continued problem with the 19 control blades of sticking in the GE BWR [General 20 Electric Boiling Water Reactor] reactors. There's a 21 couple of -- the ultimate heat sink for the plant itself 22 is -- are two spray ponds which are linked together.
23 And if one were somehow punctured, would 24 actually drain the other. So you potentially could 25 lose the ultimate heat sink in an earthquake if it were NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 1 bad enough.
2 So, there are things -- a bad combination 3 of things going wrong could make this plant extremely 4 dangerous in an earthquake. And we don't think that 5 you should ignore repairs that need to be done.
6 That's it. With that I conclude our 7 statement.
8 CHAIRMAN WILSON: At this time does the 9 staff here at Headquarters or anybody in the Region have 10 any questions? Or need any clarifications?
11 (No response) 12 CHAIRMAN WILSON: Does the Licensee have 13 any questions?
14 MR. GREGOIRE: No, we have no questions.
15 CHAIRMAN WILSON: If there's any members 16 of the public before I conclude the meeting, does --
17 the members of the public may provide comments 18 regarding the Petition and ask questions about the 19 2.206 process.
20 However I ask that it be opened. Go ahead.
21 MR. GILBERT: Yes, this is Steven Gilbert.
22 I am also with Washington Physicians for Social 23 Responsibility and live in Seattle.
24 And I just had a couple of quick comments.
25 I'm a toxicologist very interested in public health.
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20 1 And we're a small non-profit institute and an affiliate 2 professor at the University of Washington.
3 In my review of a risk assessment and 4 looking at cost benefits, you know, how we look at the 5 Columbia Generating Station and the issues that 6 continue to be raised, it seems like the risks are 7 greater than the benefits.
8 So, in the effort to keep my comments 9 short, I just want to encourage the NRC to really 10 examine the risk from multiple angles. And consider 11 the benefits.
12 And remembering the operating conditions 13 of Columbia Generating Station. And whether the 14 continued operation of an old reactor, Mark II style, 15 is really worth the risk.
16 So I'll leave it there. Thank you.
17 MR. GREGOIRE: This is Don Gregoire with 18 Energy Northwest. I just want to state that we do 19 appreciate the concerns of these organizations.
20 They are things that we concern ourselves 21 with each day living and working in the area. And we 22 appreciate the NRC's consideration into the factual 23 matter of the considerations there in making their 24 decision.
25 I won't say that we agree with many of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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21 1 conclusions or comments made. But we do understand and 2 appreciate that people do have concerns.
3 And they have the right to demand that the 4 plant is operated safely. And we expect that of 5 ourselves.
6 And so, I would just again, thank the NRC 7 for taking a look at the effects surrounding this. And 8 make sure that a fair decision is made with regard to 9 the Petition. Thank you.
10 CHAIRMAN WILSON: Before we go, I want to 11 summarize the additional comments that were made for 12 us to consider. First was additional earthquake 13 information of the new Earthquake information and 14 assessment of the Columbia Generating Station based on 15 the post-Fukushima evaluation.
16 Also, the associated effects on the plant 17 if an earthquake would happen. The proprietary 18 commission control associated with that and 19 potentially trying to get information to get it 20 independently evaluated.
21 Another factor was the current operating 22 mode of Columbia Generating Station maintaining 23 efficient operations of the plant. And the last was 24 the risk of the plant being there, is greater than the 25 benefits of the plant for an older reactor, Mark II NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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22 1 containment.
2 Did I catch all the additional concerns 3 that were raised?
4 MR. JOHNSON: I believe so.
5 MS. JOHNSON: This is Peggy Maze Johnson.
6 And one of the things I wish you would address is the 7 location of this plant and the fact that it sits in the 8 middle of the Hanford Reservation.
9 The amount of waste that is there not only 10 from the reactor but from the Hanford Reservation 11 itself. And I think that must be taken into 12 consideration when you're talking about safety.
13 CHAIRMAN WILSON: I understand. And I 14 also had another one, is exactly the placement of the 15 plant and the associated surrounding conditions of the 16 plant with the materials that's associated around the 17 plant if something should happen.
18 Before we close, does the Court Reporter 19 need any additional information for the meeting 20 transcript?
21 COURT REPORTER: I do not.
22 CHAIRMAN WILSON: Charles and Peggy and 23 Steven, I want to thank you for taking time to provide 24 the NRC staff with the clarifying information on the 25 Petition that you submitted. And that I've NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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23 1 characterized it total.
2 With that, this meeting is concluded. And 3 we'll be terminating the phone connection.
4 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.
5 MS. JOHNSON: Thank you.
6 MR. GILBERT: Thank you.
7 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 8 went off the record at 1:58 p.m.)
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