ML12037A223
| ML12037A223 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Grand Gulf  |
| Issue date: | 01/31/2012 |
| From: | Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation |
| To: | |
| Drucker D | |
| References | |
| NRC-1404 | |
| Download: ML12037A223 (68) | |
Text
Offic ia l Trans c ript of Proc e e dings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION Title: Grand Gulf License Renewal Public Meeting: Evening Session Docket Number: (n/a)
Location: Port Gibson, Mississippi Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 Work Order No.: NRC-1404 Pages 1-65 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005
(202) 234-4433 1
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 + + + + +
4 PUBLIC MEETING TO DISCUSS 5 LICENSE RENEWAL AND 6 ENVIRONMENTAL SCOPING PROCESS 7 GRAND GULF NUCLEAR STATION 8 LICENSE RENEWAL APPLICATION 9 + + + + +
10 Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11 + + + + +
12 City Hall Chambers 13 Port Gibson City Hall 14 1005 College Street 15 Port Gibson, Mississippi 16 + + + + +
17 7:00 p.m.
18 BEFORE: BILL MAIER, Facilitator 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 A G E N D A 2 ITEM PAGE 3 Welcome and Purpose of Meeting ..................... 3 4 Overview of the License Renewal Process ........... 10 5 Overview of the Environmental Review Process ..... 19 6 Public Comments ................................... 28 7 Closing ........................................... 64 8 Adjourn ........................................... 65 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MR. MAIER: Good afternoon, everyone.
3 Thank you for coming to today's meeting and showing an 4 interest 5 in what your government's business is as it affects 6 and relates to the environment around the Grand Gulf 7 Nuclear Plant.
8 My name is Bill Maier, and I work at the 9 Nuclear Regulatory Commission's, or NRC's, Region IV 10 office in Arlington, Texas, and it's my pleasure to 11 serve as the facilitator for tonight's meeting.
12 The purpose of this meeting is twofold:
13 First it's an opportunity for the NRC to provide 14 information to you about the process by which it will 15 review the application by Entergy for the Grand Gulf 16 Nuclear Plant to operate for an additional 20 years.
17 During that first portion of the meeting, 18 various NRC folks will talk about the process for 19 reviewing that application; they'll provide 20 information about the expected time line for the 21 review.
22 And after that presentation, we will 23 provide an opportunity for you to ask questions about 24 what they just spoke about and about the license 25 renewal process in general, or specific questions that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 you have about it.
2 We hope that all the folks present will 3 clarify the information that they presented such that 4 your questions are answered, but if we can't answer 5 the questions, I'll ensure that the question is 6 captured, and please get your name and contact 7 information to me, and we'll try to get an answer to 8 you on that question.
9 And if you think of a question that 10 doesn't come up during the question period that you 11 would like to discuss with the NRC, the folks from the 12 NRC will be around after the meeting concludes, to 13 answer any questions.
14 The second and the most important part of 15 the meeting is the chance for an opportunity for you 16 to give information and comments to the NRC about what 17 you think should be included in their consideration of 18 the review of this license renewal application.
19 Tonight's meeting is just one way of 20 providing that information. There are other ways that 21 you will be able to provide the information if you 22 have information after this meeting that you would 23 like to get to the NRC during the period that they're 24 taking comments, and the NRC presenters will give a 25 little bit more information about how to do that.
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5 1 There were several things that were 2 offered to you when you came in and signed in. We 3 have a couple of cards here. We have a yellow speaker 4 card for anybody who would like to make some comments 5 about what the NRC should consider in their review of 6 the environmental impact of the Grand Gulf 7 application.
8 And we have a blue card for folks who 9 don't necessarily want to speak but may want to get 10 some communication with the NRC in the future. It's a 11 method by which the NRC can get your contact 12 information and provide other information to you about 13 what's happening in this license renewal review 14 process.
15 A number of folks in the afternoon 16 session asked if the copies of the slides are 17 available. We do not have copies of the slides 18 available, but if you do fill out one of these blue 19 cards, the NRC folks will be able to get a copy of 20 what we call the meeting summary to you that will 21 include the slides as well as the attendance list.
22 There are also feedback forms available 23 that we are very interested in having you fill out.
24 The feedback forms tell the NRC how the meeting went 25 and how it could be improved. The NRC is always NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 looking to improve its meetings, and your feedback is 2 very important.
3 You can fill out the feedback form and 4 give it to any of the folks who are representing the 5 NRC -- and I'll introduce them all in a second -- or 6 you can take it home, and if you want to fill it out 7 and mail it to the NRC, the postage is prepaid, and 8 you can get it to us that way.
9 At this point I'd like to provide some 10 brief introductions of the NRC staff who are here to 11 tell you about the process and to answer whatever 12 questions you have and to receive what your comments 13 are.
14 There are two individuals here who are 15 going to do the lion's share of the meeting, and I'll 16 introduce them first. Nate Ferrer: Nate is the 17 project manager coordinating the NRC review of the 18 safety aspects of the license renewal application; 19 David Drucker: David is coordinating the NRC review 20 of the environmental aspects of the application.
21 We also have a number of NRC officials 22 here. Dave Wrona: Dave is the chief of the 23 Environmental Projects Branch in the NRC's Division of 24 License Renewal at NRC headquarters. Dennis Morey:
25 Dennis is the chief of the Safety Projects Branch in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 that same division. And Rajender Auluck: Raj is a 2 branch chief in the Safety Review Branch for that 3 division.
4 We also have Laura Uselding. Laura is 5 the public affairs officer. She works for the NRC's 6 Office of Public Affairs and is the public affairs 7 officer in our Region IV office, where I work.
8 The NRC's resident inspector staff is 9 also supporting this meeting. We have Richard Smith.
10 Richard is the senior resident inspector, the NRC's 11 senior resident inspector and the agency's eyes and 12 ears for the oversight of the daily plant operations.
13 And also assisting, who you already met, 14 is Ally Farrell. Ally is the site administrative 15 assistant at the site, working for the NRC.
16 We also have some local officials who 17 come to this meeting. We have Mayor Fred Reeves.
18 Thank you for coming, Mayor Reeves.
19 And another official of some sort that I 20 didn't introduce at this afternoon's meeting: Cheryl 21 Chubb. Cheryl is an emergency planner with the 22 Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality. Cheryl 23 is an emergency planner that helps to plan the offsite 24 response to an emergency at Grand Gulf and Tensas 25 Parish.
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8 1 You also probably noticed two deputies 2 that are standing in the doorways. We have Deputies 3 Smith and Claiborne here from the Claiborne County 4 Sheriff's office. They are here for your protection.
5 It makes good sense in a public meeting to have folks 6 who you can turn to if you get into trouble and you 7 need some help.
8 And I'd also like to introduce two of the 9 most important people here tonight. Mr. Bob Smylie is 10 working the sound system. And Ms. Penny Bynum is 11 transcribing this meeting. She is capturing it into 12 written form, word for word, and she will enter it 13 into the public record. It will be entered into the 14 public record, her transcription.
15 This lets the NRC reviewers know what 16 comments were provided during the meeting, and it lets 17 the world know that your comments were provided to the 18 NRC and that they need to consider them in their 19 review.
20 Ms. Bynum is recording the meeting from 21 the microphones, and because of this, there are 22 certain rules that we need to follow:
23 First one is, only one person speaks at a 24 time. More than one person speaking at the same time 25 can result in important information being lost in the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 1 transcription process. Second rule is side 2 conversations, please take them outside the room.
3 Outside noises can also interfere with the ability to 4 get a clean recording.
5 And from this point on -- and I think 6 I've already done it -- all cell phones should be 7 either turned off or put on vibrate. Let me say that 8 one more time: All cell phones from this point on 9 should be either turned off or put on vibrate.
10 And most importantly, any speaker who is 11 being recognized at the time must have me come to them 12 with this hand mike and speak into it, or if you're 13 going to provide comments, you'll have to go to the 14 podium mic to make your comments. This is vitally 15 important to ensure that the important information 16 that you have to provide to the NRC is accurately 17 captured.
18 And one thing I didn't mention in this 19 afternoon's meeting, but it is important for Ms.
20 Bynum -- when either asking a question or making a 21 comment, please start out by giving your name and your 22 affiliation, if you have one, so that she can put that 23 into the record.
24 I talked about the yellow cards, and I 25 haven't gotten any from anybody, so that may make the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 1 comment period really short, but if I do get some, I 2 will call folks up to the podium to make their comment 3 in the order that I receive the cards.
4 It's very important that you fill out the 5 card clearly so that I don't mispronounce your name 6 and get it into the record wrongly. And when I 7 recognize you, you can come up and make your comment.
8 We don't expect that there will be any 9 time limit for making comments about the things that 10 you want the NRC to look it, and I already mentioned 11 the blue card.
12 And one of the things that's my duty to 13 inform you of is the safety information for tonight's 14 meeting, and that consists of knowing where the 15 restrooms are -- very important.
16 They're at the bottom of the staircase 17 here, just underneath it, a men's and a women's 18 restroom together, right underneath the stairwell.
19 And across from the restrooms on the 20 first floor is the water fountain, if anybody needs to 21 get some water. There's a restroom up here in this 22 corner, but Debra tells me don't use it if you need to 23 use the restroom for anything other than washing your 24 hands, because the door won't latch.
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11 1 building for whatever reason, what we have to do is 2 down this stairwell and out the door into the parking 3 lot. If there's a problem getting down this 4 stairwell, there's a door in the room across the hall 5 that leads to an external staircase that we can use to 6 get to the parking lot.
7 Are there any questions for me on what 8 I've gone over so far?
9 (No response.)
10 MR. MAIER: If not, let's silence our 11 cell phones, and we'll start the NRC presentation.
12 MR. FERRER: Thank you, Bill.
13 Good evening. My name is Nate Ferrer, 14 and as Bill mentioned, I am the safety project manager 15 at the NRC coordinating the staff's review of the 16 Grand Gulf license renewal application.
17 I'd like to thank you all for taking the 18 time to the meeting. Tonight we'll be providing an 19 overview of the license renewal review process, which 20 includes both a safety and an environmental review.
21 We'll describe ways in which the public 22 can participate in the renewal process, and I'd like 23 to reiterate that the most important part of tonight's 24 meeting is to receive any comments that you may have 25 on the scope of the environmental review. I hope the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 information we provide will help you understand the 2 license renewal review process and the roles that you 3 all can have in that process.
4 Now, before I get into the discussion of 5 license renewal process, I'd like to take a minute to 6 talk about the NRC in terms of what we do and what our 7 mission is.
8 The NRC is a federal agency that 9 regulates the civilian use of nuclear material, and 10 the Atomic Energy Act authorizes the NRC to grant 40-11 year operating licenses for nuclear power reactors.
12 I'll highlight that the 40-year term was 13 based primarily on economic considerations and 14 antitrust factors and not on safety or technical 15 limitations. The Atomic Energy Act also allows for 16 license renewal, which is what we're here to talk 17 about tonight.
18 The National Environmental Policy Act of 19 1969, or NEPA, established a national policy for 20 considering the impact of federal decision-making on 21 the human environment, and Dave Drucker will discuss 22 NEPA in greater detail during his portion of the 23 presentation.
24 The NRC's mission is to ensure adequate 25 protection of public health and safety, to promote the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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13 1 common defense and security, and to protect the 2 environment. We accomplish this mission through a 3 combination of regulatory programs and processes such 4 as establishing rules and regulations, conducting 5 inspections, issuing enforcement actions, and 6 assessing licensee performance. We also evaluate 7 operating experience from nuclear plants across the 8 country and internationally as well.
9 The NRC has resident inspectors at all 10 operating nuclear power plants, and as Bill mentioned 11 earlier, Rich Smith, who's here with us tonight, is 12 the senior resident at Grand Gulf. And these 13 inspectors are considered the eyes and ears of the NRC 14 and carry out our safety mission on a daily basis, and 15 they're on the front lines of ensuring acceptable 16 safety performance and compliance with regulatory 17 requirements.
18 I would like to mention a few very 19 important areas of NRC oversight that routinely come 20 up during our interactions with the public. NRC staff 21 address these areas of performance every day as part 22 of the ongoing oversight provided for all power 23 reactors.
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14 1 information on current performance of Grand Gulf, you 2 can use the link provided on this slide, and this is 3 also provided in your handout.
4 The NRC monitors and provides regulatory 5 oversight of activities in these areas on an ongoing 6 basis under the current operating license, and 7 therefore, we do not reevaluate them in the license 8 renewal process. And that's not to say they are not 9 important; we just don't duplicate the regulatory 10 effort.
11 Another issue that is addressed under our 12 ongoing regulatory oversight is the NRC's response to 13 the accident at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi power plant in 14 Japan. Since the accident at Fukushima, the NRC has 15 taken multiple steps to ensure the safe operation of 16 nuclear power plants both now and in the future.
17 As part of its initial response to the 18 accident, the NRC inspected all of the nation's 19 nuclear power plants in order to assess disaster 20 readiness and compliance with current regulations.
21 The NRC then issued the Near-Term Task 22 Force Report, which provided near-term recommendations 23 and a suggested framework for us to move forward in 24 the longer term.
25 This report was issued on July 12, and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 the results were discussed in a public meeting on July 2 28. As a result, the Task Force presented 12 3 overarching recommendations for improvement, and these 4 recommendations are applicable to operating reactors, 5 regardless of their status in the license renewal 6 process.
7 The NRC has prioritized these 8 recommendations, and the Commission has directed the 9 staff to move forward on those that can be pursued 10 without delay. The staff plans to issue related 11 orders and demands for information by March of this 12 year. To date, the NRC has not identified any issues 13 as part of these activities that call into question 14 the safety of any nuclear facility.
15 And I'll reemphasize also that this 16 review process is going on independent of license 17 renewal, and any changes that are identified as 18 necessary will be implemented for all licensees. More 19 information on the NRC's post-Fukushima activities can 20 be found on the NRC's website by clicking on Japan 21 Nuclear Accident-NRC Actions on the home page, or 22 directly through the web address provided on this 23 slide. There are also a limited number of copies of 24 the Near-Term Task Force Report available at the table 25 in the back of the room.
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16 1 At this point I'll move on to Grand Gulf 2 and the license renewal review process. The NRC 3 received Grand Gulf's application for license renewal 4 on November 1, 2011, requesting an additional 20 years 5 of operation.
6 The current operating license for Grand 7 Gulf expires in 2024, and I'll note that licensees can 8 submit an application for license renewal after they 9 have operated for 20 years. The NRC has determined 10 that 20 years of operation provides enough operating 11 experience information for the staff to make an 12 informed decision on renewal.
13 The first step in the license renewal 14 process is to perform an acceptance and sufficiency 15 review of the application. The purpose of this review 16 is to determine if the applicant has provided all of 17 the required information.
18 The required information includes things 19 such as technical information about plant structures 20 and components and how the applicant proposes to 21 manage the aging of those structures and components.
22 Technical specifications define the 23 operating parameters of the plant, and the application 24 indicates if any changes or additions to the technical 25 specifications are necessary.
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17 1 The application also includes an 2 environmental report, which is the applicant's 3 assessment of the environmental impacts of continued 4 operation.
5 If the applicant has provided all the 6 required information, then it is considered acceptable 7 and is put on the NRC's formal docket, and the staff 8 will perform a full review. For Grand Gulf, the 9 license renewal application was formally accepted on 10 December 16 of last year.
11 This flow chart highlights that the 12 license renewal review involves two parallel paths:
13 the safety review and the environmental review, and 14 these two reviews evaluate separate aspects of the 15 application. It also shows all of the considerations 16 in the Commission's decision of whether to renew an 17 operating license.
18 I'll explain the dotted line, which shows 19 the hearing process. And this process may be 20 conducted if interested stakeholders submit concerns 21 or contentions, and their request for a hearing is 22 granted.
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18 1 in its decision on whether or not to renew the 2 license.
3 Now I'll describe the safety review in a 4 little more detail. There are two main principles 5 that guide the license renewal safety review. The 6 first principle is that the current regulatory process 7 is adequate to ensure that all operating plants 8 maintain an acceptable level of safety.
9 The second principle is that the same 10 rules that apply under the current license will apply 11 during the additional 20 years of operation and, in 12 addition, a renewed license will include conditions 13 that must be met to ensure that applicants adequately 14 manage the effects of aging and maintain the same 15 acceptable level of safety for the additional 20 years 16 of operation or, in other words, what is being done 17 today will continue, plus a lot more, to ensure the 18 continued safe operation of the plant.
19 The safety review focuses on several 20 types of systems, structures, and components. It 21 looks at safety-related systems, structures, and 22 components, as well as nonsafety-related equipment 23 that could affect the safety-related equipment if they 24 failed.
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19 1 are systems, structures, and components that are 2 relied upon for compliance with the regulations that 3 you see listed on this slide.
4 The safety review focuses on the effects 5 of aging on all of these different types of systems, 6 structures, or components, and the main objective in 7 the staff's review is to determine if the aging 8 effects will be adequately managed by the applicant.
9 Now that I've described what we are 10 reviewing during the process, I'll talk about how we 11 perform that review. The NRC has a team of 12 approximately 30 technical reviewers and contractors 13 that review the application and supporting 14 documentation from our headquarters in Washington, DC.
15 The staff also comes onsite for three 16 weeks to conduct audits in which we verify the 17 technical basis of the application and confirm the 18 applicant's programs and activities are consistent 19 with how they're described in the application.
20 In addition, a team of specialized 21 inspectors from one of our regional offices travel to 22 the site to verify that the aging-management programs 23 are being implemented or planned consistent with the 24 application.
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20 1 conclusions of its review in a safety evaluation 2 report. A final step in the safety review process is 3 an independent review by the Advisory Committee on 4 Reactor Safeguards. This committee is a group of 5 scientists and nuclear safety experts who serve as a 6 consulting body to the Commission.
7 The committee performs an independent 8 review of the application as well as the staff's 9 safety evaluation report and inspection findings and 10 makes a recommendation to the Commission.
11 This slide shows the important milestones 12 for the safety review process. And I'll note that 13 these dates are tentative, and if any significant 14 issues do arise, delays may result.
15 I'll also note that the safety evaluation 16 report, which is indicated as SER on this slide, is a 17 publicly available report that documents our results 18 of our review. And the Advisory Committee on Reactor 19 Safeguards meetings, which is indicated as ACRS on 20 this slide, are -- these meetings are open to the 21 public, and they're held at our headquarters in 22 Washington, DC.
23 This concludes the description of the 24 safety review, and I'll hand it over to Dave Drucker 25 to talk about the environmental review.
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21 1 MR. DRUCKER: Thank you, Nate. And good 2 evening. My name is David Drucker, and my focus is on 3 the environmental review.
4 The review is performed in accordance 5 with the National Environmental Policy Act, commonly 6 referred to as NEPA, and NEPA established a national 7 policy for considering environmental impacts for 8 federal environmental reviews.
9 All federal agencies must follow a 10 systematic approach in evaluating potential impacts of 11 their significant actions and also assess alternatives 12 to those actions. The NEPA process involves public 13 participation and public disclosure.
14 The NRC's environmental regulations 15 implementing the requirements of NEPA are contained in 16 10 CFR 51. Our environmental review considers the 17 impact of license renewal and any mitigation for those 18 impacts considered significant.
19 We also consider the impacts of 20 alternatives to license renewal, including the impacts 21 of not issuing a renewed license. We document our 22 review in an Environmental Impact Statement which is 23 made publicly available.
24 Ultimately the purpose of the 25 environmental review is to determine whether the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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22 1 environmental impacts of license renewal are 2 reasonable and, in combination with other reviews, to 3 make a recommendation to the Commission whether to 4 renew the license or not.
5 For a license renewal review, the NRC 6 environmental staff looks at a wide range of potential 7 impacts. Additionally, we consult with various 8 federal, state, and local officials, as well as 9 leaders of Indian nations.
10 Examples include the US Fish & Wildlife 11 Service, the Environmental Protection Agency, the 12 Louisiana and Mississippi state historic preservation 13 officers, Louisiana and Mississippi tribal nations 14 with historic ties to the area around the plant. We 15 gather pertinent information from these sources and 16 ensure it is considered in our analysis.
17 The environmental review begins with a 18 scoping process, which is an assessment of the 19 specific impacts and significant issues that the staff 20 should consider in preparing the Grand Gulf 21 Environmental Impact Statement.
22 Currently this is where we are in the 23 process. Information that we gather from you tonight 24 and in the next few weeks will be considered and 25 included in the Environmental Impact Statement.
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23 1 We've recognized that some impacts are 2 similar if not identical at all nuclear power plants, 3 so to improve efficiency, we developed a Generic 4 Environmental Impact Statement that addresses a number 5 of impacts common to all nuclear power plants. The 6 staff supplements that Generic Environmental Impact 7 Statement with a site-specific statement in which we 8 will address issues that are specific to Grand Gulf.
9 The staff also reexamines the conclusions 10 reached in the Generic Environmental Impact Statement 11 to determine if there is any new and significant 12 information that would change those conclusions.
13 The scoping period started on December 14 29, 2011, when the notice of intent to prepare an 15 Environmental Impact Statement and conduct scoping was 16 published in the Federal Register.
17 The NRC will accept comments on the scope 18 of the environmental review until February 27, 2012.
19 In general we are looking for information about the 20 environmental impacts from the continued operation of 21 Grand Gulf.
22 You can assist this process by telling 23 us, for example, what aspects of your local community 24 we should focus on; what local environmental, social, 25 and economic issues the NRC should examine during our NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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24 1 review; what other major projects are in process or 2 planned in the area, and what reasonable alternatives 3 are most approximately for this region.
4 These are just some of the examples of 5 the input we seek through the environmental scoping 6 process. We don't know your community as well as you 7 do, so your comments help to ensure a thorough review.
8 Public comments are an important part of 9 the environmental review process, so how do we use 10 your comments? All of your comments to us, whether 11 provided verbally during this meeting or in a written 12 letter, fax, or email, are considered and addressed.
13 We respond to each comment as part of the 14 Environmental Impact Statement.
15 The Environmental Impact Statement is one 16 of the factors, as well as several of the others shown 17 here, that will influence the Commission's decision to 18 review the license or not.
19 In addition to providing verbal and 20 written comments at this meeting, there are other ways 21 you can submit comments. You can submit comments 22 online using the federal rulemaking website at the 23 regulations.gov website. Enter the key word NRC-2011-24 0262; this will bring you to a list of Federal 25 Register notices.
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25 1 The very first one will say -- at the top 2 will say, Entergy Operations, Inc., Notice of Intent 3 to Prepare an Environmental Impact Statement and 4 Conduct Scoping Process for Grand Gulf Nuclear Station 5 Unit 1. So you'll know you're on the right page.
6 And there's an icon on the right-hand 7 side of that page that will enable you to submit a 8 comment. If you have any problems with that, please 9 give me a call, and I can walk you through it.
10 Also you can fax your comments to the 11 number shown above, and if you do fax, please 12 reference Grand Gulf License Renewal right on the fax.
13 Please note that comments will not be 14 edited to remove any identifying or contact 15 information, so do not include any information in 16 comments that you don't want publicly disclosed.
17 And as I mentioned, the deadline for 18 comments is February 27, 2012.
19 Also, written comments can be mailed to 20 the chief of our Rules, Announcements, and Directives 21 Branch at the address provided on this slide. And 22 finally, if you happen to be traveling to Washington, 23 DC, you can provide written comments in person during 24 business hours.
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26 1 milestones. And as Nate said, these dates are subject 2 to change based on the progress of the review. The 3 opportunities to submit contentions for a hearing 4 closes on February 27, 2012, and the opportunity to 5 submit environmental comments closes on February 27, 6 2012.
7 Please note that a draft Supplemental 8 Environmental Impact Statement is scheduled to be 9 issued for public comment in December 2012, with an 10 associated public meeting to receive your comments on 11 this preliminary report.
12 Nate and I are the primary points of 13 contact at the NRC for license renewal issues for 14 Grand Gulf. Our contact information is provided on 15 this slide, and it's also in the handout that's 16 available at the desk out front.
17 A hard copy of the license renewal 18 application and the environmental report is provided 19 on the table out back there, and it's also found in 20 the local library shown on here the slide. The draft 21 Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement will also 22 be available at this library when it is published for 23 comment.
24 These documents will also be on the NRC's 25 website at the web address shown at the bottom of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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27 1 slide, that is also contained in your handout.
2 As you came in, you were asked to fill 3 out a registration card at our reception table. If 4 you've included your address on that card, we will 5 mail a CD copy of the draft and the final 6 Environmental Impact Statement to you.
7 This concludes my presentation, but 8 before we get into the comment period or any questions 9 in general, I just want to make sure, if there are any 10 questions about what I've presented or what Nate 11 presented tonight, this is the time to ask those 12 questions. Looking left, looking right.
13 (No response.)
14 MR. DRUCKER: This concludes my 15 presentation. I want to thank everyone coming out 16 tonight. I know it's not easy to get away in the 17 evening, and I really appreciate it, and I turn the 18 microphone back over to Bill Maier. Thank you.
19 MR. MAIER: Thank you, David.
20 As I mentioned earlier, we didn't have 21 copies of the slides here for you, and you saw a 22 number of email addresses and addresses and website 23 and things. If you got a copy of the welcome sheet 24 that's front and back, it has a lot of all that 25 important information, if you wanted to provide that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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28 1 information to the NRC or if you wanted to look at 2 some of those websites.
3 Before we go to the comment period I'll 4 just urge that if anybody does have -- excuse me.
5 When we got to the question period, I'll urge that if 6 anybody has a yellow card that they'd like to make a 7 comment for the NRC to consider, please hold that card 8 up; I'll get it, and when we get to the comments, I'll 9 call on you to come up.
10 Now we have an opportunity to ask 11 clarifying questions of the NRC presenters and others 12 here.
13 If you have a question, just wave your 14 hand. I'll come by with the handheld mic, and the 15 folks with the NRC will be able to respond on the 16 podium mic.
17 I'll ask that you please identify 18 yourself, and if you have an affiliation with an 19 organization, please provide that before you ask your 20 question.
21 And remember the ground rules, please:
22 Only one person speaks at a time, and the person 23 asking a question needs to speak into the microphone.
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29 1 about Grand Gulf that aren't necessarily related to 2 the presentations you just received, and there may be 3 questions that the staff here at this meeting may not 4 be completely qualified to answer.
5 That's not to say your question shouldn't 6 be asked; it's just that we may not be able to provide 7 an answer to questions about things outside of the 8 license renewal process.
9 We've got Rich here. Rick is 10 knowledgeable about plant operations. He'll be able 11 to provide whatever answers he can, but if you have a 12 question and we aren't able to answer it, I would urge 13 you to get that question on the back of one of these 14 blue cards with your contact information -- maybe 15 write "question on back" on the front of the card, and 16 when David gets those or when Nate gets those, we can 17 get those back to the folks who can provide you a 18 complete question -- complete answer to your question.
19 So with that, I'll ask if there are any 20 questions by anybody in the audience.
21 Okay. And I'll ask you to give your name 22 and your affiliation before you ask your question, and 23 folks from the NRC will try to answer.
24 MS. HILLEGAS: My name is Jan Hillegas.
25 I'm the acting chair of the Green Party of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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30 1 Mississippi.
2 I have several questions here, and I 3 would like -- though they are questions, I would like 4 them also to be sure to be in the realm of being taken 5 into consideration as things that I think you should 6 be thinking about, too; not just that I want a bit of 7 information tonight, but I want you to be thinking 8 about most of these things, too, in what you do.
9 And since I have several questions, I 10 would be very glad to be interrupted when anybody else 11 has other questions; otherwise I will go down them.
12 My first question is to just get my 13 bearings a little bit, to be sure. I'm thinking that 14 Grand Gulf went online with a license that started 15 probably in 1984? Is that correct? And so it had a 16 40-year license which runs out November 1, 2024.
17 And at that time it was a 40-year 18 license, but at this time 20-year licenses are 19 available -- potentially available.
20 MR. FERRER: The license renewal process, 21 if approved, would add an additional 20 years to the 22 end of that expiration date. So if approved, the 23 license would then expire in 2044 rather than 2024.
24 MS. HILLEGAS: And the reason for doing 25 this process in 2012 is? -- 2012-23 is?
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31 1 MR. FERRER: You're asking why they've 2 come in now.
3 MS. HILLEGAS: Uh-huh.
4 MR. FERRER: Well, our regulations allow 5 for licensees to submit an application after they've 6 been operating for 20 years, and that provides us with 7 enough of operating experience to make an informed 8 decision.
9 As far as why they chose now rather than 10 a few years down the road is a decision that the 11 applicant makes.
12 MR. MAIER: Let me ask if anybody else 13 has a question they'd like to ask, and we'll get back 14 to Jan.
15 (No response.)
16 MS. HILLEGAS: I drove around this 17 afternoon after the first session, to remind myself 18 where things are and so on.
19 As I was coming back toward Port Gibson 20 and I was near the plant at the time, the plant being 21 on my right, on the left, quite near the road, a man 22 was burning something, quite high flames going up in 23 the air.
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32 1 that side of the road, and across the road between me 2 and the plant of course there were trees and grass and 3 so on.
4 I don't know whether anyone knows whether 5 it's legal to burn things like that out in the county, 6 but I couldn't help wondering, if that fire had been 7 done maybe not in quite such a relatively wet time of 8 year as we're in now and the fire had become like some 9 of the fires that have taken thousands of acres last 10 year in other parts of the United States, what could 11 have happened to Grand Gulf if that fire had just gone 12 on its way?
13 What -- I know that an issue in past 14 years has been quite small number of fire departments, 15 vehicles, personnel in the county. What gives you --
16 what assurance could people in this community have 17 that such a fire that went beyond where the man was 18 trying to burn, went toward the plant -- what 19 assurance could people have that there would -- that 20 that fire could be put out before it caused a problem?
21 And if could not, what kind of a problem would be 22 caused to the kind of plant that Grand Gulf is by such 23 an out-of-control fire?
24 MR. MAIER: As I mentioned, Rich Smith is 25 the NRC's eyes and ears, and he looks over the plant.
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33 1 Rich, are you interested in maybe telling 2 what would be the way of mitigating something like 3 this?
4 MR. SMITH: Well, first of all, the 5 plant, in its location there, is relatively -- the 6 surroundings of the plant, there are no trees on the 7 plant site itself, or flammable materials.
8 I'm sure a fire of that duration, the 9 state would bring as many people in as possible or try 10 to mitigate it. As far as the plant itself, they have 11 their procedures and things that they have to deal 12 with, events like that, external events, and they 13 would take the appropriate actions to protect the 14 plant and also protect the public.
15 Does that answer your question? I mean, 16 there's quite a bit of standoff difference between the 17 tree line and the nuclear plant.
18 MS. HILLEGAS: You're saying that a fire 19 could not get there; you're saying a fire could not 20 get to the plant.
21 MR. SMITH: I'm saying that there's a 22 lack of flammable material in trees and things like 23 that up close. There's basically all buildings and 24 concrete and structures like that.
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34 1 behind burning trees that didn't start out on the 2 property, what is the potential?
3 MR. SMITH: I would only be speculating 4 on what, you know, could happen. I know they have 5 evaluated the plant site. It's pretty much cleared 6 off where the buildings are and everything.
7 The plant protected area is surrounded by 8 a mile-long fence all the way around, and -- over a 9 mile. So I don't believe there's the possibility that 10 could be -- but I'm not speaking as an expert; I'm 11 just speaking as just generally how the plant's laid 12 out and everything.
13 MR. MAIER: Rich, let me ask a follow-up 14 question. Is there a firefighting organization that's 15 part of the plant staff onsite?
16 MR. SMITH: Yeah. What you have is a 17 fire brigade made up of operators that respond to 18 fires in the protected area, and then they have 19 agreements with the local fire departments to come and 20 assist them if needed.
21 Like I said, a fire of this magnitude, I 22 would believe that there would be ample amount of 23 response from both state and even federal agencies, if 24 necessary, to protect the plant.
25 Does that answer your question?
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35 1 MS. HILLEGAS: That answers that part of 2 it. Could someone else talk about the status of fire 3 stations and personnel at this time?
4 MR. MAIER: I don't think we have 5 somebody to represent the offsite fire departments who 6 might be able to answer that question for you, but if 7 you want to fill that out on a blue card, we might be 8 able to get that information from whoever is qualified 9 to answer it.
10 Questions from other attendees, other 11 folks in the audience?
12 (No response.)
13 MR. MAIER: Jan, you have the microphone 14 again.
15 MS. HILLEGAS: Okay. Thank you.
16 It's my understanding -- but correct me 17 if I'm wrong -- that all the radioactive waste that's 18 been produced by Grand Gulf is still on the site after 19 these 27 years. If that is the case, can someone give 20 the approximate square footage or cubic yards or 21 whatever number you can give about that? And then 22 just a general idea of how much more accumulates every 23 year.
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36 1 anybody from the site is -- feels qualified to answer 2 that question who might be here.
3 MR. SMITH: First of all, you've got the 4 classification of radioactive waste. Anything's that 5 low-level radioactive waste has been shipped and is 6 shipped off the site routinely, sent to appropriate 7 facilities.
8 What you're probably referring to is the 9 spent fuel. All right? And so what the licensee is 10 doing and has been doing over several years, with 11 approval from the NRC, is that there are taking the 12 fuel out of their spent-fuel pool when it's aged, put 13 it into canisters, put it into shielded containers, 14 and storing it on seismically built pads inside the 15 protected area, and they put anywhere from five to 16 seven every other year out there.
17 These hold 68 bundles of spent fuel, and 18 I believe there's approximately 17 to 19 out there 19 right now, and like I said, the NRC approved all that, 20 the design of the overpacks and the process by which 21 the licensee executes that.
22 MR. MAIER: Let me ask a question of the 23 NRC reviewers from headquarters. Is the accumulation 24 of spent fuel an impact that the NRC reviews in its 25 review of this license renewal application? And if NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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37 1 not, where is it taken into account?
2 MR. DRUCKER: Yeah, spent fuel is not a 3 part of the license renewal review; it's an ongoing 4 issue that is managed on a regular basis at the plant.
5 And the gentleman in the back grabbed the 6 environmental report. Were you looking up to see if 7 that information on the previous question was answered 8 in that?
9 VOICE: Yes, I was.
10 MR. MAIER: Thanks. Other questions?
11 MS. HILLEGAS: You said some of those 12 things pretty fast, and I'm sorry; I didn't get it all 13 there.
14 Spent fuel goes first to a pool, where 15 it's cooled, I guess. Is that -- and then you said to 16 canisters, and there was something in between and then 17 seismically built pads, and then five to seven 18 something.
19 MR. SMITH: I'll go through it again.
20 So the take the fuel out of the reactor 21 over many years, and these bundles are stored in a 22 spent-fuel pool. After they have a requisite number 23 of time to allow the thermal heat to dissipate from 24 the decay process that occurs after fission's done, 25 these bundles are put into what they call multipurpose NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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38 1 canister, where they can store 68 bundles, and it's a 2 stainless-steel canister that is welded shut and 3 helium dried, so there's no moisture in them.
4 Then these canisters are put in an 5 overpack, which is a high-storm canister which has 6 boron-impregnated concrete poured around it for 7 shielding purposes, and they're very substantial.
8 They've gone through a lot of testing on these 9 canisters for weather, tornadoes, things like that.
10 And they're put out on a pad that has 11 been seismically built in case an earthquake occurs, 12 so that the pad's not going to crack and things like 13 that.
14 And there's ample storage space there, 15 and every other year the licensee has gone to 16 campaigns where they remove more bundles from the 17 spent-fuel pool, put them in these canisters and place 18 them out on the pad in a very controlled process, and 19 it's about five to seven a year.
20 MS. HILLEGAS: Five to seven?
21 MR. SMITH: Five to seven canisters every 22 other year.
23 MR. MAIER: Jan, I think since we're in 24 the evening meeting, if there are questions that are 25 related to general information about the plant, as I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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39 1 mentioned before, the NRC folks will make themselves 2 available after we conclude the meeting so that 3 questions can be answered. I don't know if that's an 4 agreeable situation for you or not, but that might be 5 better for the audience as a whole to be able to 6 adjourn and get their comments in.
7 Are there any people that have any other 8 questions that are related to the license renewal 9 application?
10 Mayor Reeves?
11 MAYOR REEVES: I have two questions. Has 12 any plant been denied renewal in the past? Never?
13 MR. FERRER: There have not been any 14 applications that have been denied once formally 15 accepted by the NRC, but that's not to say that there 16 hasn't been applications that have maybe been sent 17 back or reviews that have been essentially halted for 18 significant changes.
19 MAYOR REEVES: My other question is what 20 effect would the current upgrade at Grand Gulf have to 21 do with the process? Would that have an impact on the 22 process?
23 MR. FERRER: The EPU process that 24 currently ongoing is its own independent process.
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40 1 going on that could impact our review, but we have 2 processes in place to account for that.
3 MR. MAIER: Any other questions related 4 to the license renewal process?
5 Cheryl, please give your name and your 6 affiliation.
7 MS. CHUBB: Cheryl Chubb, Louisiana 8 Department of Environmental Quality.
9 Just expanding on what Mayor Reeves 10 asked, how many licenses have been renewed so far?
11 MR. FERRER: The current number is 71 out 12 of the 104 that we have.
13 MR. MAIER: Other questions related to 14 license renewal?
15 MS. HILLEGAS: Is any part of the -- does 16 any part of the renewal process or evaluation by the 17 NRC assume any date that the spent fuel will be stored 18 offsite or that decontamination technology will be in 19 place?
20 MR. FERRER: The spent fuel that is 21 stored onsite is actually controlled under its own 22 license and its very own process. I don't have the 23 details as far as when that's set to expire, but it is 24 its own process, and it's controlled.
25 MR. MAIER: In my opening -- go ahead.
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41 1 MR. SMITH: I just wanted to add 2 something. Before they can store any spent fuel in 3 these canisters, they have to have an approval by the 4 NRC to do this. They had to submit an application to 5 be able to be able to store fuel onsite and ensure 6 that they meet all the appropriate specifications and 7 things like that, and it is governed by another group 8 that reviews all this and actually inspects it on a 9 yearly basis; comes out and makes sure everything's 10 being done properly per regulations.
11 MR. MAIER: In my opening remarks I 12 stated that the most important portion of this meeting 13 was the portion in which members of the local 14 community, members of the public, and local officials 15 would have an opportunity to provide comments to the 16 NRC for things to consider in the environmental 17 review, either comments of what would be the impact of 18 additional 20 years or the impacts of denial of an 19 additional 20 years of operation.
20 Although I haven't received any yellow 21 cards, I'll ask that if anybody does have comments, 22 which we consider to be the most important thing to 23 come out of this meeting, if anybody would like to 24 make a comment, would you please raise your hand and 25 let me know, because we'll try to get to the comments, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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42 1 and then if we have additional time for questions, we 2 might do some questions.
3 Is there anybody who has a comment that 4 they'd like the NRC to consider in their review of the 5 environmental impact for this license renewal 6 application?
7 (No response.)
8 MR. MAIER: Jan, do you have additional 9 questions that are related to license renewal?
10 MS. HILLEGAS: And remember that I asked 11 that my questions be considered comments, though 12 they're framed as questions.
13 Can someone tell me how far in advance 14 the disaster at Fukushima was predicted? It happened 15 on March 11 of last year. How far in advance was it 16 predicted? That's the first part of a few questions.
17 MR. MAIER: Jan, I have to ask you why 18 you would like that to be considered as a comment for 19 the license renewal for the Grand Gulf plant.
20 MS. HILLEGAS: It's the first of some 21 questions, and it will be clearer with the subsequent 22 parts.
23 MR. MAIER: Can I ask you what your 24 estimate is of how many questions you have and how 25 long it would take to answer them?
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43 1 MS. HILLEGAS: (away from microphone).
2 MR. MAIER: Please restate your question 3 about Fukushima. I don't know that we have anybody 4 here to answer it, but if there is somebody who feels 5 qualified to answer, we'll see if they want to step 6 up.
7 MS. HILLEGAS: Okay. Well, today I 8 became aware of this report that you have about 9 recommendations for enhancing reactor safety, which 10 was done exactly in the wake of Fukushima, and I think 11 that's very relevant.
12 So I was asking -- I don't know whether 13 it's in here, because I haven't read almost 82 pages 14 yet. How far in advance was the disaster at Fukushima 15 predicted, approximately?
16 MR. MAIER: Is there anybody who feels 17 qualified to answer that question?
18 (No response.)
19 MR. MAIER: Jan, we may have to ask you 20 to put that on a blue card and get that back to us.
21 MS. HILLEGAS: Had the officials -- the 22 technicians at the plant, Fukushima, prepared for what 23 happened there, had they foreseen the possibility of 24 what did happen there?
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44 1 NRC. As Nate presented in his slide, when the events 2 of Fukushima happened, the NRC took immediate actions 3 and did some inspections at all the plants.
4 And it's very important to the NRC, and 5 we're continuing to follow up what happened there and 6 what we can do -- if there's any things that we can do 7 going forward: changes in our regulations, changes in 8 how we inspect. And a lot of those are called out in 9 that report that you had indicated.
10 And as Nate indicated, the agency hasn't 11 found, to date, anything that has caused us to call 12 into question the safety and operations of the power 13 plants. It's an ongoing issue. The agency's 14 continuing to look at that and plans to issue some 15 orders and some demands for information of perhaps all 16 the applicants by in the March time frame.
17 So there's more to follow on this. It is 18 under the realm of our current operations and making 19 sure the plants are safe today, and it will be 20 implemented irregardless of the status of the license 21 renewal for any of the plants, whether they have 22 applied and they're currently under review, whether 23 they already have a renewed license, or whether they 24 plan to come in with an application in the new future 25 or even in the distant future.
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45 1 MR. MAIER: Dave, this is Bill Maier.
2 Let me just ask, is it prudent to say that any 3 statements or any reports about what happened onsite 4 at Fukushima by the staff -- whether the staff 5 anticipated or not -- would be more appropriately 6 dealt with in a report from the Japanese government 7 rather than the NRC?
8 MR. WRONA: It would just be guessing at 9 all the events and what they had known at the time, 10 unless they had indicated to us in an official report.
11 And we do have some information -- the 12 slide show had presented it and I think in the 13 handout -- that is available. We have a website that 14 could go into a lot more detail on the specifics that 15 we are doing as a follow-up to the Fukushima event.
16 MR. MAIER: Maybe if we could pull that 17 slide up again, folks could see what that website is.
18 (Pause.)
19 MR. MAIER: And it should also be in the 20 handout that David provided. There at the bottom of 21 that slide there, and it's on the back of the welcome 22 sheet.
23 MS. HILLEGAS: Can any of you tell me how 24 the standards of the Japanese equivalent of the NRC 25 compare with the standards of the US NRC in relation NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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46 1 to the various safety and emergency preparedness 2 things that were relevant to Fukushima?
3 MR. MAIER: Anybody feel qualified to 4 answer that question?
5 (No response.)
6 MR. MAIER: No.
7 MS. HILLEGAS: But you are the people who 8 are in charge of figuring out whether Grand Gulf meets 9 US standards.
10 I know everybody can't know everything, 11 but even given that, it seems to me that it's very 12 much within your job description to become familiar 13 with how the standards compare and how the 14 predictability of disasters figures into this and 15 therefore the preparedness for the expected or the 16 unexpected, all of those things.
17 That's why all of this is so important.
18 MR. MAIER: David, let me just say, would 19 it be appropriate to talk briefly about the Japan 20 Lessons Learned directorate that's just formed up in 21 the Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation and talk in 22 general terms about what their activities are designed 23 to do?
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47 1 takes that mission very seriously. The folks we have 2 here are specifically to talk about license renewal, 3 and we came to seek comments on specifically the 4 environmental scoping.
5 There is a group within the agency that 6 their whole task is to evaluate what has gone on in 7 the Japan event, make recommendations to the 8 Commission on how to move forward. The Commission is 9 acting on those recommendations, and as the slide 10 indicates, you know, we plan to take some actions and 11 issue some orders in the March time frame.
12 And all I can add is that that 13 information's available. We're not the experts on 14 that particular area. We do have folks in the agency 15 that that is their sole responsibility, and we can 16 just point to the website, and that will give you as 17 much information as you'd be interested in trying to 18 find out on the Japan event.
19 MR. MAIER: Additional questions, Jan?
20 MS. HILLEGAS: Grand Gulf has been in 21 operation about 27 years. Can someone tell me, in 22 those 27 years, on at least about how many occasions 23 or how many days was the level of the Mississippi 24 River above flood stage? That's part one.
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48 1 spring. I don't know if anybody has kept those 2 statistics and brought them here to this meeting, but 3 I'll let Rich take a stab at it.
4 MR. SMITH: First of all, I want to just 5 explain how the site is laid out. All right?
6 So the site is at 132-1/2 feet mean sea 7 level, and the record anticipated flood is 103-1/2 8 feel mean sea level, so there we have 29 feet of 9 buffer. Okay?
10 The equipment that was affected by the 11 flooding event, which didn't cause the plant to have 12 to shut down or anything, is nonsafety-related cooling 13 pumps down by the river.
14 If those pumps were lost, they're not 15 counted on to keep the reactor cool during an event.
16 So essentially a flooding event is not in the design 17 base as an accident that is credible that could occur 18 at Grand Gulf that would cause a core-damaging event.
19 But just like I was saying, these 20 nonsafety-related pumps, if they were all lost, they 21 have safety-related cooling, and they have a basin of 22 15 million gallons of water for a 30-day supply to 23 cool the reactor as part of their design.
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49 1 they needed it.
2 So does that answer your question? As 3 far as the number of days of flooding, I cannot answer 4 specifically in the last 27 years how many, but 5 they're never had a flooding event that has caused any 6 detrimental operation to the plant.
7 I've been here for the two highest 8 floods, in 2008, 53 feet. Last year I think it went 9 57.1 feet. And both times the licensee has taken 10 appropriate actions to ensure that their equipment is 11 well protected; they're built up on platforms and 12 things so that they can continue to operate, but they 13 also have standards if the level got too high; they 14 were going to shut the plant down in a safe, 15 controlled manner, mainly because the cooling water to 16 their nonsafety-related equipment could have been 17 interrupted.
18 And we oversaw the whole thing, had frank 19 discussions with the licensee what their plans are and 20 things like that.
21 MS. HILLEGAS: When you said in 2008 that 22 the level was -- did you mean 157.1?
23 MR. SMITH: It was 53 feet mean sea 24 level -- it was 53 at Vicksburg. Okay? And it was 25 57.1 feet at Vicksburg this year, past year. Now, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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50 1 that doesn't totally correspond to -- 57.1 feet 2 reflected 94 feet at mean sea level; there's a 3 correction factor as you come down river.
4 MS. HILLEGAS: Thank you.
5 MR. MAIER: Maybe we can go over the 6 numbers after the meeting's over. Do you have 7 additional questions that are related to license 8 renewal?
9 MS. HILLEGAS: Well, you've given me 10 numbers 132 and then 103.5, and now you're down to 53, 11 so I am definitely confused, and maybe the transcript 12 will clarify that for me, but it doesn't otherwise.
13 MR. MAIER: Let's take care of this after 14 the meeting's over.
15 MS. HILLEGAS: Well, what -- the follow-16 up to understanding what has happened in the past 27 17 years is to ask what was the historically highest 18 level of the river, and then how many more feet would 19 it have had to rise above what it has in 27 years or 20 historically to cause a problem at the plant, and what 21 kind of a problem would be caused by those additional 22 feet.
23 I'm just trying to get a picture of the 24 options.
25 MR. SMITH: Okay. First of all, I said NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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51 1 that a flooding event at the plant is not a credible 2 accident, so all I know is from the history of the 3 Mississippi, 1927 was the highest flood stage, and 4 that would not have affected the plant. I can't go 5 and speculate how high it's going to get; I have no 6 idea.
7 But I know that in 1957 -- 1927, when it 8 probably would have rose higher than '57, they 9 estimate 65 feet, it still would not have affected the 10 core safety, because all the safety equipment is up on 11 the 132-1/2 feet elevation at the plant site, and that 12 would have kept the core cool. And they would have 13 shut down, but the core would have been fine.
14 Does that answer your question?
15 MS. HILLEGAS: Okay. Are you saying that 16 the significant, dangerous part of the plant is 132 17 up, and the water hasn't gotten above 50 or 60?
18 MR. SMITH: To try to clarify, I use 19 apples and oranges, and I apologize for that. At 20 Vicksburg, where they measure the water for flood 21 stage, that's the lower numbers -- 54, 57, things like 22 that.
23 When it comes down the river you have to 24 add a correction factor, and what they deal with is 25 the 132-1/2 feet mean sea level. It's about, I don't NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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52 1 know, 30 feet more that you would add on to -- 30, 40; 2 I'm not exactly -- remember the exact number, but 3 there is a correction factor from Vicksburg down to 4 where the plant is.
5 And so what I'm saying is I think it was 6 estimated with 65 feet at '27 flood. You had 40, 50 7 to that, it's still not going to get to 132-1/2 feet 8 mean sea level, so that's why flooding is not a 9 credible accident at the Grand Gulf site.
10 MR. MAIER: I think, to ask clarification 11 of these specific numbers, we may not have that 12 information for you, so we'll have to entertain that 13 at some other time. I see Debra has a question or a 14 comment, and I'll ask Debra to respond, and please 15 give your name and your affiliation.
16 MS. CHAMBLISS: I'm Debra Chambliss; I'm 17 with the City of Port Gibson.
18 My question is, over the 27 years that 19 Grand Gulf has been in operation, has there been any 20 environmental or safety issues that the NRC has had to 21 rectify at Grand Gulf?
22 MR. MAIER: Debra, I guess we'll need to 23 get a little bit more focusing on that one. Is there 24 something in mind that you wanted to ask --
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53 1 has been any significant event at Grand Gulf that has 2 been -- has the plant at noncompliance or anything 3 where the NRC has had to come in and regulate 4 anything, or is everything going pretty much as 5 planned?
6 MR. MAIER: I'm going to let Rich take 7 this one.
8 And, Debra, is it fair to say that your 9 question is, are there problems that are identified by 10 the NRC? Are those problems addressed by the NRC, and 11 are those problems corrected such that plant operation 12 is maintained safe? Is that a fair way to paraphrase 13 it?
14 MR. SMITH: Yeah, our process is that 15 we're conducting inspections daily at the plant, and 16 sometimes during our inspections we find that they're 17 not in compliance with the rules.
18 So the licensee has a corrective action 19 program. They write a condition report identifying 20 that, immediately implement either corrective 21 actions, if they can, or compensatory actions to meet 22 the standard.
23 We go through our process, and if it's a 24 violation, we write the violation up, and then they're 25 required to take correction action to prevent that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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54 1 type of violation from recurring again.
2 Now, as far as significant violations at 3 the plant, I can only speak for the four years I've 4 been there, and we have not had anything above what we 5 call a white finding, which would be low to moderate 6 safety concern.
7 Most of our findings are green, which are 8 very low safety significance. There are violations of 9 the rules, and they have to correct them, but they're 10 not very significant.
11 None of them have screened where it would 12 be a potential core-damaging event type thing. I'm 13 only speaking of the four years. I can't go back the 14 other 23, because I haven't been here. All right?
15 Thank you.
16 MR. MAIER: Thank you.
17 Once again I'll cast a net, and I'll ask 18 if anybody in the audience would like to provide any 19 sort of comments for the NRC to consider in their 20 review of the environmental impacts of the license 21 renewal application for Grand Gulf.
22 If you'd like to raise your hand, we'd 23 give you an opportunity to step up to the microphone 24 and make that comment.
25 (No response.)
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55 1 MR. MAIER: Do you have additional 2 questions that are related to license renewal?
3 MS. HILLEGAS: One of the things that's 4 been mentioned is taking into account the fact that 5 this is an aging plant, now a 27-year-old plant, and 6 by the time the renewal would start, would be a 40-7 year-old plant and then becoming a 60-year-old plant.
8 Can someone give us a general idea of 9 what percentage of the potential trouble spots in the 10 plant, especially given an aging plant -- what 11 approximate percentage of the potential trouble spots 12 can be directly observed so they could be noted before 13 something actually happens?
14 Are there signs of wear of one sort or 15 another, or -- I don't know -- steam or -- you know, 16 any indications like visible indications that would be 17 warnings that something was going wrong? And then 18 what kind -- given that aging is recognized as a 19 legitimate problem and fact, what kinds of potential 20 problems does the NRC -- do you all realize could be 21 the ones that are most likely to happen?
22 MR. FERRER: I can't speak necessarily to 23 a specific percentage of issues. I can kind of speak 24 about what the license renewal process accomplishes, 25 and that's to ensure that applicants put several NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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56 1 programs in place to specifically look for the types 2 of things that you're talking about, the aging 3 components.
4 And the programs may have them look at 5 things more often, do more inspections, look at 6 additional items to make sure that things continue to 7 operate safely.
8 MR. MAIER: Nate, I'm going to follow up 9 with maybe you would want to talk a little bit about 10 what the tools the licensee has for conducting this 11 aging management, for evaluating these passive 12 components. How would they do it if they can't 13 visually see it? What sort of schedule of inspections 14 they're on and how do they do this? In general terms, 15 not real specific.
16 MR. FERRER: Well, we have -- the 17 programs themselves may implement additional, like we 18 talked about, inspections; there's also testing of the 19 components. And in some cases, if they find 20 something, they may be required to replace those 21 components.
22 MR. MAIER: But things like -- would 23 there be things like X-rays, radiography, ultrasonic 24 testing?
25 MR. FERRER: Yeah, that's part of the --
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57 1 yeah, there's several ways that they can observe or 2 inspect or test a component, several technologies that 3 they have at their disposal to look for those things.
4 MR. SMITH: I think, to address your 5 question, they have -- all licensees are required to 6 have a flow acceleration corrosion program, which 7 basically they go through and sample all the steam and 8 water piping that are exposed to high pressures for 9 erosion, corrosion issues on the piping systems, and 10 they have it all computerized and mapped out.
11 And they normally use what they call 12 ultrasonic testing to see the thinness of the pipes, 13 and when they reach a certain thinness, then they're 14 required to cut those pipes out, replace them with new 15 pipes, and that's all part of the process right now.
16 Even if they weren't doing license renewal, they'd be 17 doing this, and they do do this, and so that has 18 proven to be very successful in heading off potential 19 issues, and all plants do this.
20 So I think that kind of answers some --
21 no, you can't just walk up to a pipe and say, Hmm, it 22 looks like it's getting ready to fail. Normally when 23 they're shut down they go ahead and have scheduled 24 areas that they're known, such as elbows and things 25 like that are known to have high flow rates, potential NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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58 1 corrosion areas, and then so they will check a certain 2 percentage each outage, to ensure that everything's 3 okay, and if it's not, they take appropriate actions 4 to fix it.
5 MR. MAIER: And this is all part of aging 6 management? A horse by any other name.
7 MS. HILLEGAS: One other part of this 8 same subject. What is the longest number of years 9 that, well, an exactly or similarly designed plant has 10 run successfully? -- some other plants?
11 What I'm getting at is, has any plant run 12 40 years or 60 years yet?
13 MR. WRONA: Yeah, there are, I think by 14 the end of this year, approximately five to nine 15 plants that are going to be operating past their 40-16 year period. Most of them are in the 40- to 43-year 17 period, I believe.
18 MS. HILLEGAS: Okay. I want to ask about 19 something that I read about in a news release that 20 came out just a week ago.
21 The NRC found an error in the modeling of 22 a design that relates to the steam dryer part of the 23 boiling water reactors such as Grand Gulf has. It was 24 discovered when -- by the NRC staff when it was 25 reviewing this application by Entergy -- I'm sorry --
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59 1 no, I guess not. Excuse me.
2 Actually, now that I see what this says, 3 it adds another question. The error in the design of 4 this component was found when they were reviewing an 5 application by Entergy to increase the power output of 6 the Grand Gulf nuclear plant, is what this release 7 says.
8 So the additional question is, when did 9 we hear about that -- any such application, and was 10 the public comment and review and any of that about 11 the increase of output?
12 But then the question about the steam 13 dryer component -- this is a GE Hitachi product, which 14 presumably had been reviewed by Entergy people before 15 they decided they wanted to put it in Grand Gulf.
16 What if the NRC had missed the same 17 things that GE people and Grand Gulf people had 18 already missed?
19 MR. MAIER: I don't know that NRC people 20 are ready to speculate on that, but we do have another 21 division that's reviewing this particular thing as 22 part of the operating license. Is that true? And 23 those would be the folks who'd be most qualified to 24 talk about that. Maybe that would be another blue 25 card question to put on a blue card and get a response NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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60 1 from the people that would know best how to answer.
2 But we have someone who's going to talk.
3 MR. WRONA: No, I'd just like to put in a 4 plug for our listserv. Either on the signup sheet or 5 the -- one of the blue cards, if you provide us with 6 an email address, you'll be added to an electronic 7 distribution, and all the communications between the 8 NRC and the licensee, or applicant, in the case of 9 license renewal, will come to you in that email, and 10 that would include license amendment requests, which 11 the power-up rate is; any requests for additional 12 information that the NRC has of the applicant, the 13 responses back and forth any notices associated with 14 that license amendment would come right to your email.
15 MR. MAIER: And that's at www.nrc.gov?
16 MR. WRONA: Well, all that stuff's 17 publicly available on our ADAMS system.
18 MR. MAIER: To get on to the listserv.
19 MR. WRONA: But if she gives us -- if you 20 give us your email address, we'll put you on the 21 listserv.
22 MS. HILLEGAS: All right.
23 MR. MAIER: Yeah, we'll get you on there.
24 We're almost out of time.
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61 1 about why -- was there some process that I missed to 2 increase the capacity, or did that -- as far as I 3 know, it just appeared in the newspaper it was going 4 to happen, even though there had been a process that I 5 attended some years ago about the proposed Grand Gulf 6 3, which did not happen, but then all of a sudden that 7 wasn't there anymore and there was the increase of 8 capacity.
9 MR. WRONA: It would have been a license 10 amendment request, and those are noticed in the 11 Federal Register notice. I don't know the date that 12 that came in, but again we can get you the information 13 on when the initial application was submitted to the 14 NRC for review.
15 MR. MAIER: We're almost out of time.
16 MS. HILLEGAS: Can anyone tell me 17 anything about the role of the Southern Mississippi --
18 or South Mississippi Electric Power Association in 19 relation to this community that's based in 20 Hattiesburg, and I believe it has 10 percent ownership 21 in the plant?
22 MR. MAIER: Do you have a specific 23 question that you want answered?
24 MS. HILLEGAS: The role of the South 25 Mississippi Electric Power Association. Maybe nobody NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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62 1 knows that.
2 MR. MAIER: I don't think the NRC 3 folks -- oh, wait a minute.
4 MR. SMITH: Yeah, the SMEPA, as they're 5 referred to, they have a 10-percent ownership of the 6 plant, and so they pay 10 percent of the bills and 7 things like that, and then they get power from the 8 plant, and that's kind of the role how it is; it's 9 called minority owner.
10 They do have one representative on staff 11 down there that's independent that just follows along 12 the processes and asks questions and -- to protect 13 their interest and things like that; make sure 14 everything's running well and understands what's going 15 on, be able to explain it to his immediate superiors.
16 That's it. They don't run the plant.
17 Entergy runs the plant. They're just a minority 18 owner, and they pay 10 percent of all the bills and 19 then they get the power in return to help supply that 20 to the public.
21 MS. HILLEGAS: Can someone tell me the 22 approximate annual budget of the NRC?
23 MR. MAIER: Come on; get up there.
24 MR. WRONA: If I'm remembering 25 correctly -- and this is all publicly available on our NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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63 1 website, but I think the NRC's total operating budget 2 is approximately $1 billion.
3 MR. MAIER: That's billion with a B.
4 Correct?
5 MR. WRONA: Correct.
6 MS. HILLEGAS: And the approximate cost 7 of a license renewal and environmental scoping process 8 like we're in?
9 MR. MAIER: It's a good question; I like 10 that question.
11 MR. WRONA: It's -- the cost of the 12 applicant to produce and send in is outside of our 13 purview, so I can't speak to that. It's -- it depends 14 on the length of the review. All the hours that the 15 staff and the contractors perform on our license 16 renewal review are billed to the applicant, and if --
17 it's in, I believe, the $5 million range, you know, 18 depending on how -- and it's hard to convert how we 19 measure resources by staff utilization to a specific 20 dollar amount.
21 MS. HILLEGAS: So that 5 million is part 22 of the billion or in addition to?
23 MR. WRONA: I have to explain a little 24 bit how we -- we do charge licensees annual fees, and 25 we also bill them for the reviews that we conduct, but NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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64 1 the funding goes to the government's general fund, and 2 we have to request our budget from Congress annually.
3 So the $1 billion is what we get from Congress.
4 MR. MAIER: Isn't it theoretically safe 5 to say that that's part of the 1 billion, because the 6 1 billion is what the NRC gets?
7 MR. WRONA: Yeah, typically we base our 8 request on the work that we plan on performing.
9 MR. MAIER: Okay. Well, we've come to 10 the end of the scheduled meeting here. I guess I 11 would urge if anybody does have additional questions 12 that they'd like to discuss with the NRC folks, they 13 can ask it after we finish the meeting here. Some NRC 14 folks will be staying around to be able to answer some 15 questions.
16 If questions were asked that were not 17 able to be answered, filling out a blue card with the 18 question on the back and maybe the words "question on 19 back" on the front with your contact information will 20 get you -- get that card back to whoever is most 21 appropriately qualified to answer that question.
22 And I will also urge folks to fill out 23 the feedback forms, get the feedback forms to one of 24 the NRC folks. And if you don't have time or you 25 don't want to fill it out tonight, mail it in.
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65 1 We have had a pretty full meeting, and 2 I'm sorry to say we didn't get any comments for the 3 NRC to address, but that's the way it goes sometimes.
4 Many thanks are in order. Thanks to 5 Mayor Reeves for providing a very comfortable setting 6 for us to have this meeting. Thank Deputies Claiborne 7 and Smith for your service; you sat through both of 8 these meetings.
9 And I thank you for coming. I thank you 10 for showing an interest in it, and also thanks to Bob 11 Smylie and Penny Bynum for capturing all the comments 12 and the questions and verbiage for including in the 13 transcript.
14 I don't think that we have any more 15 things that we need to talk about, just that the NRC 16 folks will be available, that this meeting will be 17 documented in a meeting summary that will be put out 18 on that list service that we talked about, or 19 available to folks who fill out a blue card and ask 20 for that information to be sent to them.
21 Is there anything else that any of the 22 NRC folks would like to say?
23 (No response.)
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66 1 experience for you.
2 (Whereupon, at 8:30 p.m., the public 3 meeting was concluded.)
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