ML062790389
| ML062790389 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Kewaunee  |
| Issue date: | 08/05/2002 |
| From: | NRC/OI |
| To: | |
| References | |
| 3-2002-004, FOIA/PA-2006-0113 | |
| Download: ML062790389 (42) | |
Text
1 1 UNITED STATES'OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS 5 INTERVIEW 6 -----------x 7 IN THE MATTER OF: : 01 Case No.
8 INTERVIEW OF : 3-2002-004 9
- -- -...-f,,,
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10 x 11 RADISSON HOTEL & CONFERENCE CENTER 12 2040 Airport Drive 13 Green Bay, Wisconsin 14 15 Monday, August.5, 2002 16 17 18 The above-entitled interview was conducted-at 19 5:55 p.m.
20 21 BEFORE:
22 MARY KAY FAHEY Special Agent 23 Information in thg'ie Ard etFPSENT:
inaccordance with the reedom of Informatio.#
Act, exemptions 25 I1II' EXHIBIT_ __
FOIA-NEAL R. GROSS PAGE_L__FA_.. PAGE(S) 2C 02-004.
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2 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 (5:55 p.m.)
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: For the record, 4 this is an interview of spelledC 5 who is a welder, who was formerly employed by Day &
6 Zimmerman Nuclear Power Systems, at the Kewaunee Nuclear 7 Power Plant. Today's date's August 5th, 2002. The time 8 is approximately 5:55 p.m. This interview is being 9 conducted in the Executive Board Room at the Radisson 10 Hotel, 2040 Airport Drive, .Green Bay, Wisconsin. My name 11 is Mary Kay Fahey. I'm a special agent with the U.S.
12 Nuclear Regulatory Commission's Office of Investigations 13 in Region III. This interview is being transcribed by 14 court reporter Carrie Bohrer. Also present is Mr.
16 The subject matter of this interview is 17 a fitness-for-duty concern at the Kewaunee Nuclear Power 18 Plant during a refuel outage in August of 2001.
19 Mr. please raise your right hand.
20 Whereupon,.
21 22 was called as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, 23 was examined and testified as follows:
24 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And 25 background. Date of birth?
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-3 1 MR. M MIMI 0 ecurit 2 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Social Security 3 number?
4 5 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Home address.-
6 MR.,
7 8 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And home telephone 9 number?
10 *MR..J im"j . ... 7....c 11 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Current employer?
12 MR. Right now I'm working for 13 Great Lakes Mechanical. They're out of Little Chute, 14 Wisconsin. Working at the Charmin-Fox River Mill.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And when did you 16 begin with them?
17 MR Y I think it's two or three 18 .weeks ago.
19 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And prior to that.?
20 MR. "Prior to that I worked for 21 another sub -- mechanical contractors. It was only a week 22 at a time. I don't even remember.
23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: A number of 24 different companies?..
25 MR. 3 Right.
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4 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY- Okay.
2 MR. And prior to that I worked 3 for Sam McGee Enterprises out -- I believe they're out of 4 Lake Wylie (phonetic). It's either North or South 5 Carolina. I don't have the card here. That's when I went 6 to work for Siemens-Westinghouse as a welding engineer 7 there. Prior to that I worked for Professional Welding 8 Associates. They're a welding consulting firm. They're 9 out of Kewaunee, Wisconsin. Worked pretty much with them 10 since 1983. And prior to that I worked for a lot of 1i different contractors, mostly for Phillips & Getschow.
12 Also worked for Westinghouse, Siemens-Westinghouse, 13 different company.-- well, they bought each other out.
14 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And when 15 were you employed by Day& Zimmerman at Kewaunee?
16 MR. " Day & Zimmerman, I started 17 with them on -- on July 2nd of last year.
18 SPECIAL.AGENT FAHEY: Through?
19 MR. They're -- This is where the 20 weird part comes in. I was -- When I came on the job, 21 after going through the indoctrination, every time-you got 22 to come there, I came through the gate and I'met one of 23 the engineers that works for the power plant that I
- 24. usually worked with for doing the testing and training of 25 the Siemens-Westinghouse personnel, the welding part of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5 1 it. And he asked me at that time if I was coming to.work 2 for him, and I said no, that I was working for.NPS. And 3 he said, "Well, that's not going to be for very long 4 because," he said, "you're going to come work for me."
5 And the next day he called me up -- or called me to his 6 office and he asked me if I'd work part time for him, 7 going through Siemens-Westinghouse, welding procedures and 8 all their-- do an audit on them as far as the welding 9 part of it, which I usually do every year. Or every 10 shutdown that they have. I've been doing that for'the 11 last five or six years,. I believe it was. And I usually 12 go.through Professional Welding Associates, a consulting 13 firm. I talked to Jim Jilek, who was the engineer in 14 charge for the power plant, and I told him at that time 15 that I'm working for'NPS full time,.and if he would talk 16 to the NPS superintendent or person that was taking care 17 of NPS, if they could work something out, which they did.
18 So the next day I started working with Jim Jilek for the 19 power plant in their QC department, and the QC -- the way 20 they had to do it, they had to go through Vince LeGreve, 21 who was their QC manager, or system manager, and they're 22 the one that gave the purchase order to Professional 23 Welding Associates. So I worked for two companies that --
24 you know, they had to make the paperwork where I worked 25 for Professional WeldingAssociates for whenever I'm NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 needed or else NPS.
2 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Was it a-- on 3 your eight-hour tour you worked four hours each?
4 MR. No, most of--
5 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. So one day 6 you would work --
7 MR. -- the time -- Most of the 8 time -- I've got it documented here, of when I worked for 9 NPS. I worked for -- Let me see. One, two, three -- I 10 worked three weeks for NPS.
.11 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. When did 12 you finish up with them?
13 MR. hI Weil, I didn't fin -- I 7.,
14 still was working for NPS and PWA until -- let me see --
15 until August 11th. Or August 10th, I should say.
16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: All right. When 17 you were approached about this other employment, was it a 18 day or two after you started? Or was it the first day you 19 walked into, the plant?
20 MR.M It was the second day, 21 actually, by the time he made the arrangements. *A lot of 22 the time, during these three weeks, I had to have meetings 23 with Jim Jilek to get the information that he had to get.
24 from Westinghouse because he didn't have the information 25 that he got -- I had to tell him what to get from NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 Westinghouse that I needed for the -- for the audit that I 2 had to go through, for Westinghouse. So a lot of that 3 time, even though it was just charged out to NPS, was 4 actually working for the power pompany itself. Or Jim 5 Jilek.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And-we're 7 talking about Kewaunee, the plant?
8 MR. Kewaunee Nuclear Plant, 9 right.
10 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And what 11 position did you hold with NPS?
12 MR. I was just a welder there.
13 Just one of the trades. I think I made three welds there 14 during the whole time I was there.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: What was the last 16 date you were employed by NPS?
17 MR. NPS completely? Well, like 18 .I say, I was working for PWA and NPS, that Was August 19 10th.
20 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And what was the 21 reason? Was the outage finished at that time?
22 No, no. I had gone to to 23 Two Creeks, is where they were testing the welders for 24 NPS. At that time I was working for -- for Vince LeGreve 25 and Jim Jilek, the engineer. And I had to test some NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND.AVE., N.W.
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8 1 welders over at Two Creeks because they had a joint -- a 2 testing, they had Kewaunee, NPS, and also. the personnel 3 for the Two Creeks nuclear plant, so they can-use the same 4 weld procedures, so they had three different people 5 watching the people test.
6 And at that time the -- they had gotten 7 a new superintendent, or a new person that was taking care 8 of NPS. I don't know what his name was. He called me 9 into the office and he-told me that -- he asked me if I 10 was working for NPS, and I said yes, and I told him the 11 situation. And he said, "Well, you got to make your 12 choice, either work for us or you don't work for us." I 13 said, "Well, I guess I'mnot working for you anymore."
14 That's -- That.was the end of it.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. So you 16 weren't -- Were you laid off, technically?
17 MR. N Yes. I take that back.
18 On -- It was August 3rd that I was laid off from NPS, not 19 August 10th.
20 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Were you 21 ever an actual employee of NMC?
- 22. o kRQJ 23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: You worked for
- 24. them through a subcontract?
25 MR. Through PWA as a consultant.
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9 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And then 2 you indicated to me before we went on the record and on 3 the telephone that you've had a problem getting rehired in 4 2002 --
5 MR. Right.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -- at NMC plants?
7 MR. Right. Any nuclear plant in.
- 8. the United States, period.
9 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: You know that 10 because you tried, or you know that because you were told 11 that?
12 MR.: I was told that.
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Who told you that?
14 MR. Don Popp from -- He's the 15 head security person at Hudson, Wisconsin, for NMC.
16 Nuclear Management Corporation. They take care of -- .I 17 don't know how many plants it is. I think there's six or 18 seven nuclear plants that they manage now.
19 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And we're 20 going to get back. to this issue about younot being able 21 to get employment. Let's talk generally about your 22 training when you arrived in Kewaunee in 2001 for their 23 outage. Did you attend general employee training?
24 MR.* Um-hmm. Yes.
25 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: You have to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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10 1 answer --
2 MR. ** I'm sorry. Yes.
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Do you know if the
- 4. fitness-for-duty policy was discussed?
5 MR. Yes.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And did you take a 7 test?
8 MR. : Yes.
9 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Did you pass the 10 test?
MR. Yes. Otherwise you don't
.12 get in.
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And tell *me 14 what at that time was your understanding of what to do if 15 you observed someone or suspected someone of not being fit 16 for duty?
MR. I ITr hem in.
17 18 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Turn them in to.
MR. A To the C-AS.
19 20 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: To the?
21 MR. : Security people. They call 22 it CAS, out --
23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Is that an acronym 24 for something?
25 MR. Yes, but I don't know NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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11 1 exactly what it is. It's their main gate security people 2 there.
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: C-A-S?
4 MR.4 : I. don't know if you call it 5 C-A-S -- I don't know how you spell it.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: What about 7 reporting to your supervisor?
8 MR. Yes, to supervisors, 9 foremen --
10 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: That's an 11 action --
12 MR. Foremen, supervisor. But 13 most of the time report it to security people. And the 14 reason for it, it's supposed to be confidential.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.' And are you 16 aware of an incident in 2001 involvin 4Wiin 17 which he allegedly. was not fit for duty? -.
18 MR. Yes. After Icgot laid off I 19 went to -- The plant personnel told me to go there once a 20 month to make my -- keep my badge active because there was 21 several times I was supposed to go back there and do some 22 welder training and testing of welders for the plant' 23 itself. And the last time I went there, which was in -- I 24 think it was in December, last part of December, they kept 25 my badge and they didn't say why. They just took it.
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12 1 Kept it.
2 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Did you Connect it in any way to this incident earlier wit* ---
3 4 MRj4" - There was no incident.
5 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.
6 MR. None whatsoever. There was 7 nothing.
8 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. So you --
9 That day in December when-you arrived on-site, they never
.10 let you in?
11 MR, I got into the gate and I>
.12 went through, and then my badge didn't work through the 13 card reader. And the guards there checked it and --
14 checked it several times, and they didn't know why it 15 didn't work either. I just -- That's what they told. me.
16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: When'did you 17 become aware of this fitness-for-duty issue with 18 19 MR. On December - I take that 20 back. -It was in November. End of November. The -- Boy, 21 I don't know if it was end of November or in December.
22 Anyway, the first part of December, the first week in 23 December we got back from a 24 ,)and I had a phone call or on the answering 25 machine, phone call from -- I don't remember the guy's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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13 1 name. It's in the paperwork I gave you. Anyway, he was 2 the head of security.
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: It's in here 4 somewhere?
5 MR. Yeah. He was the head of 6 security at -- at Two Creeks. I was supposed to call him, 7 which I tried to get ahold of him.
8 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Was t'andal1 9 Cleveland?
10 MR. No.-# andolph Clevelan s 11 from Hudson, Wisconsin. Give me a minute here. Guy's 12 name is not here. Anyway, I tried, to get ahold of the guy 13 at Two Creeks, and he wasn't in, and he turned me over to 14 a Harold Walker, who was a private investigator that the 15 plant hired, because'there was another incident of -- that 16 I was asked about that he was investigating about one. of-17 the -- some personnel that was laid off that had written a 18 letter to the NRC about.some welds that were made above 19 the control room in the air-conditioning room. And I was 20 inspector on that. job. "And he made a statement that the 21 welding and procedures that were being done were the wrong 22 procedures and the wrong welds. I asked him what 23 specifically was the welds that were supposed to be wrong, 24 or the procedures .that was wrong, and in the letter he 25 told me that there was some structural steel welds that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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14 1 were -- were done, that they didn't have the right 2 procedures to use. Well, the welder was misinformed, 3 because the welds that he was talking about, structural 4 steel, had nothing to do with structural steel, it was 5 just some embedments that were in the concrete that 6 were -- were weld hangers too for support of the pipes and.
7 that. It had nothing to do with structural steel, it was 8 just embedments. And the procedure that Kewaunee has as 9 far as structural steel is the building structure and any 10 support steel that ties into the building structure. And 11 these embedments had nothing to do, no tie-in to the main 12 structure at all.
13 I believe I know who the welder was, and 14 there were several welds that he had made on some piping, 15 and he only welded one side; he never welded the back 16 side. And I called him on that, 'I told the foremen about 17 it, he had to repair it.
18 And then there was a -- a. support pipe 19 that's welded to the pipe, which comes under B31.1 code, 20 and this from that point on was welded to the pipe. It's 21 just a support pipe. Well, again, it's not a structural 22 steel weld but the procedure that the'plant has in place.
23 It's a -- They go under the structural steel code, but 24 it's not a structural steel weld. But they use a code as 25 a guideline for that support on that pipe. There again, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 he welded one side and he gobbed a bunch of material on 2 the back side of it, never welded it. And he had to 3 repair that area.
4 And shortly after that they put him on 5 night shift and they-laid the guy off. I don't know if 6 they fired him, laid him.off or what. But he was gone.
7 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And --
9 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -- did this 10 Mr. Walker raise concerns about fitness for duty during 11 that conversation with you?.
12 MR. Right after that part was 13 cleared up, he said, "Well, there shouldn't be any problem 14 with that at all." And he said, "Do you know who p 15 is?" I said, "Yeah, I've knownV" I 16 for years, since about the '70s when he was an apprentice, 17 when he first came out there." And he asked me if he 18 had -- if I had smelled alcohol. I said, "I can't smell 19 so it's pretty hard for me to smell any alcohol on 20 anybody."i He said, "Was he drinking or drunk?" And I 21 said, "Not that I know of." I said, "He had bad breath, 22 but I can't -- I couldn't tell you if there was alcohol on 23 his breath or not." I said, "It has to be pretty" -- "his 24 breath was pretty strong, but, you know, I couldn't 25 differentiate anything." And I told him, my sense of NEAL R. GROSS.
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16 1 smell has been gone for years. And I said, "The only way 2 I can tell if anybody's either been on drugs or alcohol is 3 by their eyes, bloodshot eyes, or circles around their 4 eyes, or slurring of the words, of their words, and 5 speech, or if they stagger." And I said, "And none of the 6 above was seen." I said, ."I only seen him for about two, 7 two and a half-minutes when he came through the gate, said 8 'hi' to him, 'how you been,' so on and so forth, 'where 9 you been,'" and I said, "after that there was only a
.10 couple times that I seen him throughout the whole shutdown 11 because where he works and I worked are -- you know, we
.12 have nothing to do with each other." And --
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: So you only 14 interacted with once?
15 MR. Once.
16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: For a few minutes?
17 MR.W. Yep.
18 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And do you 19 remember when that was?
20 MR.J Well, the first day that he 21 was released out of the -- out of classes and that. I 22 couldn't tell you exactly what day. .
23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: But pre-outage?
- 24. MR. Yes. And then the next time 25 I seen him I was doing some inspection, a bunch of welds C NEAL R. GROSS COUR REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 1 in the fab shop they had there, and he was about six, 2 seven, eight feet away from me, and he was talking to two 3 other guys, and I said hi to him and just kept on 4 inspecting. The next time I seen him was in the hallway, 5 and I was with -- with one of the QC people, going one way 6 into the building, he was with another person coming out 7 of the building; I said hi to him and that's -- we just 8 kept walking, and that was it.
.9 And another time I seen him but he was 10 across a couple rooms away, so I really -- I didn't see n1 him -- say hi to him or nothing. -I seen him, that was it.
12 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.
13 MR. And that was just a glancing 14 thing that I -- when I seen him.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: You brought with 16 you some documents.
17 MR.A Yes.
18 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And one of those 19 documents is a February 12th, 2002 letter from NMC telling 20 you that you are ineligible for NMC nuclear access 21 authorization. And attached to that is the reason, and 22 I'll quote, "On.December 10th, 2001, you acknowledged to 23 an NMC investigator that while working at Kewaunee you 24 smelled alcohol on a coworker. You did not report the.
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18 1 or security." And that statement, based on what you're 2 telling me, is incorrect?
3 MR That is very incorrect.
4 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. You never 5 did smell alcohol on Mr.
- I can' t.
6 7 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And then 8 you also provided me with a number of.documents from your 9 attorney, Pola 10 11 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -- Hitchcock 12 Cross. And attached to this -- And this is actually a 13 copy of your access authorization denial appeal, and 14 attached to it are some medical records --
15 MR. Yes.
16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -- indicating.--
17 from your doctor, a medical report.
18 MR. Doctors.-7 19 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Doctors, okay.
20 MAnd I have another doctor's 21 report that goes back further than that. That's not 22 attached because I figured that was enough. Or the lawyer 23 figured that was enough.
24 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And these papers 25 indicate that you have an impaired ability to smell' NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 1 MR.4 That's right. i-2 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And how long have 3 you had that problem?
4 MR.ý Since I was a little kid.
5 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And I'm going to 6 ask you if I can make copies of some of these --
7 MR. Sure.
8 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -- documents 9 before you leave today?
10 MR. No problem at all..
11 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And then 12 you -- Excuse me. I didn't finish --
13 MR. Like I say, I have another 14 doctor's report that goes back further than that if you 15 want copies of that.
16 SPECIALAGENT FAHEY: I don't think 17 that's necessary. The second part of this letter --
18 excuse me, quote from NMC is: "When asked why you did not 19 report the smell of alcohol, you stated you feared union.
20 reprisal." And you stated earlier off the record that you 21 did make that statement --
22 MR. , That's right.
23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -- but can you 24 give me the context in which you made the statement?
25 MR.* He asked me if I had smelled NEAL R. GROSS.
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20 1 alcohol on because previously he asked me if I 2 had smelled alcohol and I told him, "No. I can't smell."
3 And he said, "If you had smelled alcohol, would you have 4 turned him in?" And I told.him that, ,I probably would 5 have but there would have been union reprisal." And I 6 said, right after that, "But that wouldn't bother me 7 because I had turned a man in I think it was '83." That 8 was -- because I was superintendent on the job when the 9 had the steam generator replacement f orrison Knut 10 the man had been on drugs, his speech was slurred, his 11 eyes were -- had bloodshot with rings around his pupils, 12 and he was'staggering. And I had fired-him on the spot.
13 And they did a drug test on him; it was positive for 14 drugs. So it's not-the first time it's that I've 15 turned someone in.
16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: What plant did 17 that happen at?
18 MR. W. At Two Creeks Nuclear Plant.
19 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And was there any 20 union reprisal for that? 7 21 MR. A little bit.
22 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And what did they 23 tell you? What did the union say to you?
24 MRa I. That I shouldn't have done 25 it. And I told him I would do it again because I told him NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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21 1 what happened, that there was some guys with a cutting 2 torch, and he went over to these people and grabbed it and 3 he almost burnt a guy, and that's when I grabbed him and 4 took.him out of there. I said any time that people are 5 going to get hurt or hurt someone else around them, I will 6 get them off the job.
7 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Even though --
8 MR. . I told this to the 9 investigator.
10 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: So even though you 11 feared that there would be some union reprisal, it would 12 not have prevented you from reporting Mr. if you (.
13 had smelled alcohol on him?
14 MR.A That's right.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: But that's all 16 hypothetical?
17 MR. . That's right.
18 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: You were never in.
19 a position where you observed Mr.
20 MR. Like. I said, when I seen 21 I talked to him the first day that he came in, and 22 I said hi to him and that, and like I said, there -- there 23 was nothing wrong with his eyes, there was no slurred 24 speech, there was no staggering, nothing. So I you 25 know, to me he hadn't been drinking.
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22 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Is there 2 any unwritten or unspoken rule at Kewaunee that you should 3 not report a co-worker?
5 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. So no one 6 in licensee management, any supervisor, no one has ever 7 discouraged you fromreporting anyone?
8 MR.U'A No. I asked when I was -- I 9 asked this investigator, this Walker, I asked him if he 10 had been drinking. I said, he works with one of the 11 engineers out there constantly, day in, day out during the 12 shutdown, and he is also in highly secured areas where 13 there's guards with him constantly within two, three feet, 14 and I said if he would have been drinking or smelled of
.15 alcohol, why didn't these other people do a check? You 16 know. And in my -- When I was at Prairie Island, where I 17 first found out that I wasn't going to get in to Prairie 18 Island, I also have a report from their nurse, and I 19 said.-- I also told them that every time I go to the 20 nuclear plant I tell them that my sense of smell is bad 21 and I have documentations of that.
22 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: All right. But 23 she just wrote down what-you told her?
24 MR. o ight. But it's still 25 documented at all the plants, every time I go someplace.
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23 1 And -- Lost my train of thought here. Oh, when I was at 2 Prairie Island, we were in a secured area, they have --
3 they had an outer secured area and we were let in that 4 point, check point, every day to go to a waiting area 5 while they did the schooling and everything else. And I 6 was in and out of there all the time. And I was there 7 for, God, must have been a month, three weeks, a little
- 8. over three weeks. I was sick one week there. And I was 9 still in classes, and on the third day I asked the guy, 10 one of the superintendents, "How come I haven't got my 11 clearance yet?" And he said that "NMC is not going to let 12 you in." And I asked him-why. He said, "Well, you got to 13 talk to them." So I talked..to,-, I forget his*
14 name --
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: (levelandy 16 MR. * 'ndy Clevelandý And he 17 also interviewed me, oh, about a week after I was there, 18 and I told him the same story-that I told this Walker from.
19 Two Creeks. And he didn't seem to have any problem with 20 it. And I called and up and he said, "Well, I can't 21 talk to you." I'said, "Well, why can't you talk to me?"
22 And I said, "What, are you restricting me, are you not 23 letting me into this plant?" And he said we -- "We're not 24 telling you you can't come in, but you can't." I said, 25 "Well, why? Either I can or I can't come in." He said, NEAL R. GROSS.
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24 1 "Well, you're not restricted but you can't come in." I 2 said, "I need somebody that's higher than you." *So I 3 talked to this Don Pop and he told me that there was an 4 investigation going on, that I'm not restricted from the 5 plants but I can't go in. And I said, "This doesn't make 6 sense; either I am or I'm not." He said, "Well, I'll let 7 you know in a week or two.."
8 So no sooner hung up. the phone and about 9 a half an hour later the superintendent come uip to me and 10 told me you have to get off the property right away.
11 Otherwise they were going to -- they were telling me that 12 I could work in the partially restricted area throughout 13 the shutdown as doing some welding in .the fab shop, but 14 that was -- that was gone too. And I lost over $18,000 15 right there because they were working seven-twelve's.
16 And--
17 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And who was this 18 that you were going to work for? Was it Phillips 19 Getschow?
20 MR. No, no. I can't think of 21 the name of the company.
22 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Was it Day &
23 Zimmerman?
24 MR j No, it wasn't Day &
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25 1 Prairie Island. XCEL. It's X -- capital X, capital C, 2 :capital E, capital L. It's a construction company, from 3 what I understand, of the power company.
4 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And were 5 you actually unemployed for a number of weeks or months?
6 MR. Months.
7 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: What's the time 8 period?
9 MR. *
- Well, during the period I 10 was supposed to go to Kewaunee and do some training there, ii which never came about. They never let me come back so --
12 I was out of work since, oh, maybe about a month ago.
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: So from roughly 14 beginning of December?
15 MR. No, it was the -- of 16 February. So I was --
17 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: So you were
.18 actually paid at Prairie Island for a few weeks while they 19 were trying to sort your --
20 MR. Right. I started at Prairie 21 Island on January 7th, .1 was there that week, was there 22 the week after, and then I missed a week because I was 23 sick, and then the three days into the last week of 24 January, 28th, 29th and 30th. 30th is when they told me 25 that I had to leave.
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26 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And then so 2 February -- roughly from the beginning of February?
3 MR.A Right.
4 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Until?
5 MR. . Oh, it was --
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Three weeks ago 7 when you-went to work?
8 MR. No, it was about a month 9 ago. Little over a month ago. I missed several shutdowns 10 at Kewaunee -- or Two Creeks, I should say. They had a 11 fall outage. I missed that. Like I say, I usually work 12 for Westinghouse also. The other one was for Phillips and 13 Getschow.
14 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: You didn't miss a 15 fall outage between February. and July. You missed a 16 spring outage, maybe?
17 MR. Well, yeah. You're right.
18 Got too many days mixed up here.
19 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Too many outages.
20 MR.@ Yeah.
21 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Have you made any 22 attempt to get employment at any other nuclear power 23 plant?
24 MR. No, because I was told that 25 that is throughout the United States.
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27 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And 2 r. Pop old you 3 MR. That was per Mr. Popp 4 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Do you know why he 5 told you that?
6 MR.. : On a phone conversation. I 7 have no idea.
8 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Was that in any 9 letter that you received?
10 MR.' No. It was told to me over ii the phone b n Popp 12 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And then 13 you subsequently have hired an attorney?
MR.* Yes.
14 15 SPECIAL-AGENT FAHEY: And tell me what 16 the attorney's done in an attempt to get you back to work.
17 MR. L : The attorney wrote -- She 18 got the information from my doctors and she wrote a letter 19 to on Popp ithin that 30-day period that he stated in 20 this letter --
21 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: That's your 22 appeal?
23 MR..* Right.
24 *SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.
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28 1 that, within 30 days they're going to-go over it and send 2 back the information whether it was approved or not.
3 The attorney constantly, after the 4 30-day period, she called, she faxed letters to them, the 5 faxes were never answered, the calls were never answered, 6 nothing was ever returned, the attorney told me not to 7 call, which I didn't. And like I say, on PoP Or-anda>'
8 would never acknowledge anything.
9 Finally when it came to the time to --
.10 that they got done with their inter -- review or whatever, 11 he called me and asked me if. I wanted the-letter. I said,
.12 "No, I'm not even supposed to be talking to you. You're 13 supposed to be going through my attorney.", Well, he said, 14 "I'm not going to send it to her." I said, "You will send 15 it to her." I said, "I'm not going to talk to you 16 anymore." And --
17 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: This isflevelani 18 or ýopp?f Mr. --
19 MR. n Po 20 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And did he 21 send it?
22 MR. About a week or two 23 afterwards, yeah.
24 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And do you have a 25 copy of that?
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29 1 MR. That's the letter that I 2 gave you.
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Oh, May 14th 4 letter?
5 MR. Yeah.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And that's 7 telling you you-have -- you are ineligible for NNC nuclear 8 access authorization and that you may reapply on or after 9 September 1st, 2002.
10 MR. And again, my understanding 11 that I couldn't get --. because I asked them, "Can I get in i2 any othernuclear plant?" He said, "No, as long as 13 your. -- you've been denied this plant, you're not goinig to.
14 get in any other plants." Quote, unquote.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Do you know what 16 PADS is?
17 MR. i No.
18 SPECIAL'AGENT FAHEY: P-A-D-S?
19 MR. (Shakes head negatively.)
20 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: All right. Have 21 you discussed this fitness-for-duty issue with' 22 with anybody else,-any other welders at Kewaunee?
23 MR. I've.been called by --
24 what's the name --. because he also was denied.
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30 1 contacted recently?
2 MR. 'He was contacted a while 3 back.
4 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: No, were you --
5 When you did you have your conversation with 6 Recently or --
7 MR. Yeah, just last week or so, 8 because he was just hired at the same company I'm working 9 for right now.
10 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: All'right. My 311 question is, at the time of the incident with 12 did you have any discussion with any of the other welders 13 who were on-site?
14 MR.JgppW,No, because nobody knew that 15 this was going on.
16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. So the 17 first you learned about any concern with WCs5 18 roughly November, December?
19 MR. In December, first week in 20 December.
21 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: December.
22 MR. In fact, I can tell you 23 exactly what day.
24 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Who was your 25 immediate supervisor when you worked for Day & Zimmerman?
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31 1 MR. With Day &,Zimmerman? They 2 had -- there was onlyi 1 and -- not HIM... 7..
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: y d 4+ No. He was -
5 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY:
6 MR. Rgt 7 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And then after a 8 month you changed supervisors because you went to work for 9 the other company?
10 MR. Well, I -- Again, during 11 that period of time I worked more with the power company 12 than with them. Because I was -- every day I had to go up 13 in their office and --
14 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: So who did you 15 report to?
16 MR.- ut the NPS people told me.
17 just to leave the time on there, on their part, instead of 18 going back and forth until towards the end of the month 19 when I was doing -- I was steady day -- all day long.
20 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. After 21 August 3rd who did you report to?
22 MR. After August 3rd?
23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: That's when you 24 were no longer employed by Day & Zimmerman.
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32
.1
- people. It was and the-engineer, 2 -SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Has 3 anyone -- Since roughly December, has anyone from the 4 plant contacted you and suggested what you should say if 5 you're contacted --
6 MR. 'akes head negatively.)
7 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY. -- and asked any 8 questions about this incident?
9 ~MR. o
.10 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And nobody from 11 the union has contacted you?
12 MR. Yes, there was another -- I 13 can't think of-his name. When you-get old 14 M had called me in Manchester, New Hampshire when I 15 was working for Siemens-Westinghouse. That's when I found 16 out that he was also restricted-from going into the 17 plants, nuclear plants.
18 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: He's not a union 19 official? He's a coworker?
20 MR. , He's another --
21 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Welder.
22 MR.1L Welder, yeah. He's a 23 fitter. I don't think he's a welder. And then 24 25 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: He contacted you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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33 1 also?
MR. He didn't contact me.
3 i told me that he was also restricted. was 4 another one that was restricted. But I didn't talk to 5 either one of those.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And what was 7 lpoint in contacting you?
8 MR. . He asked me if I was TL.-
9 restricted, and they were trying to find a lawyer, and the 10 union hall told them that I had contacted a lawyer because I went to the union hall to see if they could help out, 12 and they told me to forget it.
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: To get your own 14 attorney?
15 MR. Right. They told me a few 16 other things but I can't put that on record.
17 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. So0 18 and do you think these other two,q nQ.
19 were attempting to get a group together to do some sort of 20 class-action type?
J*_4*m 21 MR. They wanted me to go in with 22 them on a class action, but my lawyer told me that each 23 individual case-is different, because they were actually 24 working for -- for NPS, and I wasn't. Well, I was but I 25 wasn't.
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34 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. DidL 2 ever indicate to you that he had reported* i U 3 MR.I He told me on the phone that 4 he had -- him and w both reported him to the two 5 superintendents for NPS.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And who was that?
7 MR. ,M and who was the 8 other one? You had mentioned his name before.
9 SPECIAL AGENT FAH{EY:
11 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY:
12 MR. :Right. And4W -Aan 13 this is what he's telling me. I don't know if they did or 14 not. And he told me that don't worry about it. Or he was 15 told to not worry about it - not me but -- he was told 16 not to worry about it, they'll take care of it.
17 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Did* say 18 whether he knew for a fact whethe had ever been 19 tested?
20 MR.ýý He didn't really say. I 21 found out from the union office, though, that he's never 22 been tested the whole time he was out there except for the 23 time that he -- he initially comes in.
24 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: The union told you 25 'h*had never been tested?
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35 1 MR Yp 2 business manager.
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Except for his 4 initial?
5 MR mhm ýJfiwill probably 6 deny that was ever said to me, though. He has a way with 7 words. I am a very vocal person in our union.
8 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: I'm just -- that 9 Keems to me kind of privileged information. I would be 10 surprised that he would tell you that.
11 Anything else? Any other documents that 12 are in your folder that you think would be pertinent?
13 MR. Pretty much everything is-.
14 covered in the letter from Nola Cross.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. It's a 16 chronology and --
17 MR.A & Right.
18 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -- she kind of 19 lays out the whole --
20 MR. Right. And also, if you 21 need, I also have another document from another doctor.
22 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: This is more than 23 enough. Is there anything in these two doctor statements 24 that are attached to this that you would consider private, 25 privileged information?
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3*
1 MR. No. It is, but for this 2 instance I have no problem with it.
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: But they both 4 speak directly to your problem with smell?
5 MR. Yes. And I believe they 6 have documentation or can get documentation from the 7 doctor.
8 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And --
9 attach --
10 MR. Saý I'll releasethat without 11 any problem.
12 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Attachment 13 C is a copy of that pink sheet that you had shown me 14 earlier.
15 MR. - Right. Okay.
16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And this is from 17 Prairie Island?
18 MR. That'"s from Prairie Island, 19 right. But if you check back through the records at any 20 of the plants, I've also told them about my lack of smell.
21 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. How.far 22 back does it go? I asked you this already but tell me 23 again.
- 24. MR.
- I started working at the 25 plants in 1968, so I've had FBI clearance ever since then.
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37 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: When have you had 2 the problem with the smell?
3 MR. Oh. Since a little kid.
4 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.
5 MR.. As far as smell goes.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And you've 7 declared that every time you've gone to --
8 MR. r Pretty much. In case 9 anybody has problems with it. They also ask your history 10 of things so --
11 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Now, tell 12 me, despite all these letters that you've gotten from NMC, 13 why do you think that you're being precluded from --
14.. MR. I really don't know because 15 the reason I'm -- I'm -- a lot of the information -- or 16 all the information I gave the guy, I think he only took.
17 out the information that he wanted to, because it's all on 18 the recording. And myl* listened to my conversation 19 the whole time.
20 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: So as far as the 21 licensee's concerned, they believe that you suspected 22 was not fit for duty and failed to report him?
23 MR. As far as --
24 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Is that how you 25 understood it?
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38 1 MR.1Ij0 That'. what they're saying.
2 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.'
3 MR. But like I said, how can 4 you -- by just talking to a guy for two, two and a half 5 minutes, and not being able to smell, and there was no 6 slurring of words, there was no red eye or anything or 7 staggering, as far as I was concerned there was no --
8 there was nothing.
9 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Based on 10 everything that's happened so far, would you be hesitant 11 in the future to report somebody 12 MR No.
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -- if they had a 14 fitness-for-duty concern?*
15 MR. . Nope, never have been, never 16 will. And I also told that toi Poý and the rest of 17 them.
i8 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: So you've had no 19 chilling effect even though you've been --
20 MR. Nýpe. I'm very outspoken, 21 like I said. Any time someone's life's involved, their 22 own and somebody else's, and if it's going to affect 23 somebody, yes, you betcha.
24 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Do you think other 25 employees, because of this incident, would be afraid of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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39 1 reporting fitness-for-duty concerns?
2 MR. I would say a jot of them, 3 yes, because this is their livelihood.
4 SPECIAL AGENT.FAHEY: It's your 5 livelihood too,. isn't it?
6 MR. It's my livelihood, that's 7 right.
8 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. But some.
9 people just don't want to get involved?
10 MR.1That's right.
11 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And this is an 12 example of --
13 MR.' And if you check through the 14 1-4ith th OW N 15 through pensions and that, I've contacted them 16 -many times at different incidences through the union too..
17 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: You contacted the 18 19 MR.LW You betcha. It had nothing 20 to do with this. This had to do with the IW* The 21 22 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Anything 23 else that you want to add for the record? I don't think I 24 have any other questions.
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40 1 all my letters and everything.
2 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And I'll 3 make copies.
4 MR.N If you don't mind, I'd like 5 to get them back, yes.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Have you 7 socialized with Mr. You mentioned earlier that 8 you've known him for quite a few years.
9 MR. All of my contact with him 10 has been on jobs. I don't socialize with him, no. I 11 don't socialize with too many people. They're
-12 acquaintances.
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY:. Do you know if 14 access was pulled also?
15 MR.UI J I-heard the last shutdown, 16 this -- I think it was the spring, or last fall, one of 17 the two, he was working for Phillips & Getschow, he was 18 working at Two Creeks, he was there the whole shutdown.
19 They wouldn't let him inside of the main gate, but they'd 20 let him inside the property. And he sat in the trailer, 21 from what I understand, and got paid for it, the whole 22 shutdown, is my understanding.
23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Did the 24 investigator ask you how was able to conceal the 25 smell of alcohol from the security force?
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41 SMR. Not really. 1 kno 2 pops a lot of mints and stuff in his mouth. I seen him do 3 that through the years.. But that doesn't mean nothing to 4 me. I take mints too because I have bad breath for my 5 sinuses.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. I don't 7 have any other questions. Mr. I threatened 8 you in any manner or offered you any reward in return for 9 your statement?
10 MR. ."None whatsoever.
11 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Have you given 12 your statement freely and voluntarily?
13 M.AM-.Ys 14 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Anything further 15 you want to add for the record?
16 MR.U *' would like to get a copy 17 of the statement that I -- or the transcript that I have.
18 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And when we 19 go off the record I'll tell you how to do that.
20 MR. I also have check stubs from 21 XCEL Energy. I don't know if you want them or not.
22 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: No, that would not 23 be necessary. Okay. We'/re concluded, approximately 6:45 24 p.m.
25 (Concluded at 6:45,p.m.)
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CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Interview of Docket Number: 3-2002-004 Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced tb typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
1 Carrie Bohrer Official Reporter Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.
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