ML062830134
| ML062830134 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Kewaunee, Point Beach  |
| Issue date: | 06/06/2002 |
| From: | NRC/OI |
| To: | |
| References | |
| 3-2002-004, 3-2002-020, FOIA/PA-2006-0113 | |
| Download: ML062830134 (45) | |
Text
1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS 5 INTERVIEW 6 - ----------X 7 IN THE MATTER OF:
8 INTERVIEW OF
,:7 - oze a -c7alz 9 I 10
!I - ------------ x 12 Point Beach Nuclear Power Plant 13 Room 113, Engineering Building 14 6612 Nuclear Road 15 Two Rivers, Wisconsin 54241 16 17 Thursday, June 6, 2002 18 19 20 .. The above-entitled interview was conducted at 21 11:23 a.m.
22 BEFORE:
23n 3rmation inthis record was de lited in 2 4A(
iccordance with the Freedom o ltInformation Spca gn
, exemptions ")X-- MARY K A.Y FAHEY Special Agent 25 EXHIBIT /
..u-O0 2 .0 20 'NEAL R. GROSS PAGE OF (s; COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
2 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: For the record, 3 this is an interview of spelled 4 former welding supervisor for Day &
5 Zimmerman Nuclear Power Systems at Kewaunee Nuclear 6 Power Plant. Today's date is Thursday, June 6, 7 2002. The time is approximately 11:23 a.m.
8 This interview is being conducted at the
.9 Point Beach Nuclear Power Plant located in Two 10 Rivers, Wisconsin. My name is Mary Kay Fahey. I'm 11 a special agent with the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory 12 Commission's Office of Investigations in Region III.
13 This interview is being transcribed by court 14 reporter Christie Wydeven.
15 The subject matter of this interview is a 16 fitness-for-duty concern at the Kewaunee Nuclear 17 Power Plant during a refuel outage in 2001 which was 18 brought to the NRC's attention by the licensee 19 Nuclear Management Company.
20 .Mr. please raise your right 21 hand.
22 called as a witness 23 herein, having been first duly sworn, was examined 24 and testified as follows:
25 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.. And some NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
3 1 background questions. Date of .birth?
2 MR:*II 3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Social security 4 number?
5 MR.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Home address?
7 MR.
8 9 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Home telephone 10 number?
ii 12 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Work, current work 13 telephone number?
14 15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And that number is 16 the telephone number here at Point Beach?
17 MR.. That's, yes, my office 18 number.
.19 . SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And who are 20 you currently employed with?
22 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And how long have 1
23 you been here at Point Beach" 24 MR. *I came here from Kewaunee 25 the end of December.
.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
4 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY:.. Okay. And what was 2 your title when you were employed at Kewaunee?
3 MR -Mechanical and civil, 4 superintendent.
5 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And how long were 6 you emplo yed there?
7 R
- I believe I went there in 8 the -- either the end of April or beginning of May 9 through the, like I said, the end of December when I 10 came here.
Ii SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And 12 generally describe what your duties were at 13 Kewaunee.
.14 MR" NOversight of the outside 15 contractors for insulators, laborers, and 16 steamfitters and boilermakers; lay out the work, 17 work with engineering, and just make sure all the 18 jobs went smoothly.
19 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.. And in the 20 chain of command, who did you report to?
21 22 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Was he a Day &
- 23. Zimmerman employee?
24 MR. JimYes.
25 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And what was his-NEAL R. GROSS _
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
5 1 title?
2 MR. Site-manager.
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And how many 4 people -- how many supervisors did you have under 5 you?
6 MR.* I just had-- I had a 7 general foreman and foreman.
8 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: How many, rough 9 idea?
MR.* Ten.
10.
11 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And before 12 we went on record, you said you estimated that you 13 had roughly 150?
14 MR. 16 1 I thinic we topped out at 15 1.71.
16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And those 17 were regular workers, laborers, craft people?
18 MR. Yes, .everyone.
19 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. How about 20 general nuclear experience, how long have you been 21 in the nuclear industry?
22 MR.~~I came out to Kewaunee for 23 the first time,, I believe it was, 1986 for an 24 outage, and I'.ve been -- these are the only two 25.
plants I've been at.
- NEAL R. GROSS.*
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
6 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY:. Okay. And worked 2 pretty regularly?
3 MR. On and off up until about 4 '90 I hit all the outages and then it was sporadic 5 in between.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: All right. Beside *S 7 this work, what else do you do?
8 MR. Wafer plants, chip plants, 9 paper mills.
10 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And are you a member of a union?
12 MR. Yes.
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.
14 MR.' Local 400 Steamfitters.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And is that what 16 you are by trade, a steamfitter?
17 MR. "Yes.
18 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And when you 19 worked at Kewaunee, and most of my questions from 20 now on will be about your employment period at 21 Kew'aunee in 2001.
22 MR.2 M Okay.
23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Did your duties 24 require you to go into the protected areas of the 25 plant? Did you have unescorted access )
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4n fý AL t ,...In#
mr'1 Wr &II AP
7 1 MR Yes.
2 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Into all areas?
3 MR. Yes.
4 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And 5 training, did you attend general education 6 training -- general employee training, excuse me, or 7 get training when you arrived on-site?.
8 MR. I believe -- if I remember 9 correctly, I believe I tested here before going down 10 there.
11 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Tested here, here 12 at Point Beach?
13 MR. I think so. I -- I can't 14 honestly say.' I just -- I don't remember.. I --
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Do you 16 recall whether because you may have worked at 17 Kewaunee on prior occasions that your training may 18 have been shortened or abbreviated?
19 MR.. That could be. Some stuff 20 was.
21 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. You don't 22 remember if you had training or how long it lasted?
23 MR. I know we had to check to 24 see if we were okayed for all the different things, 25 procedure-wise,.but what.class.I had to redo and NEAL R. GROSS 7TSE
'COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
8 1 whatnot, I'm not quite sure which ones I had to 2 retake, but I thought we had some of the training up 3 here because people were swinging back and forth.
4 You know, as it was, I was -- I was here and then I 5 went there and now I'm back here because in general 6 Day & Zimmerman is -- has the .NMC contract for 7 contract,. contract workers, so I go between the two 8 plants.
9 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. So you were 10 a Point Beach -- well, you were employed here at 11 Point Beach at the time you knew that you were going 12 to Kewaunee shortly so your training may have been i3 done here?
14 MR.Yes.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Were there a 16 group of you that were in the same situation that 17 were employed here at Point Beach and then went to 18 Kewaunee?
19 MR. was. He came 20 actually later on from here.,
.21 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And I was going to 22 ask you some questions about the fitness-for-duty 23 training that you had during that GET training. Do 24 you have any recollection at all whether fitness for 25 duty was discussed?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
9 1 MR.* I know fitness for duty was 2 discussed in-it, yes.
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Was there-4 specific training provided for the expectations 5 related to actions taken when an individual detects 6 the odor of alcohol on the breath of another plant 7 worker?
8 MR(3 Yes. You're supposed to go 9 to your supervisor, and I remember that to a certain 10 extent, it's something's mentioned.about abh?.ýrent 11* behavior and --
12 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And is that 13 something that's considered abhor/ent behavior?
14 MR* N Well,N I would say if you 15 see something out of character and the smell of 16 alcohol, you know you got a problem.
17 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Did you take 18 a standard test, GET test, when you went to 19 Kewaunee?
20 MR.That's the part I don't 21 remember, if I took it here or I -- it seems to me 22 there was a test-, but I -- there was so many I -- I 23 know we .had a checkoff at the time, but I -- I just 24 can't honestly say.
25 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And can we NEAL R. GROSS' COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1W 0W t~l~r Q AWNr CI AXIM k? %At
10 1 assume that since you went to work at Kewaunee that 2 you successfully passed all the --
3 MR. Yes.
4 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -- requirements?
5 Okay. Do you know.
6 MR. Yes.
7 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And how long have 8 you known him?
9MR. Roughly twenty years.
10 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And how do 11 you know him, through the union hall or --
12 MR. Yes.
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: All right. And 14 you've worked with him at Kewaunee and Point Beach?
15 MR. No. I worked with him 16 at -- this was the. first, I believe, I worked with 17 him at Kewaunee.
18 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. But worked i9 with him outside the nuclear industry?
20 MR. Yes.
21 SPECIAL.AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And how 22 wouldyou characterize your relationship,.business 23 only?
24 MR. Well, friends.
- 25 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Do you socialize NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
11 1 outside of work?
2 .I have a couple of times, 3 but I would say you could count it probably on my 4 hand in the years that I've known him.
5 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And was that 6 socializing like going out after work with the crew 7 or a company function?
8 MR o No. One time I met him and 9 his -- my wife and I met him and his wife out for 10 dinner on a Friday night when we were working 11 together at one of the paper mills, and then I 12 stopped by his house once last summer I think'and 13 said hi because my-kids were playing in the park 14 across the street and I knew -- I saw his vehicle.
15 I just knew that he lived 16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. But you 17 don't live in 18 I lived in
.19 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.
20 MR. And' 21 22 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. So you live 23 close to each other?
24 MR. Yes. Originally I'm from 25 I just sold my house a year ago.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
12 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEYt Okay. And what 2 about going out after work?
3 MR. I don't--
4 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: No?
S.-- usually go out, no. I'm 6 a gym rat.
7 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Do you have 8 any reason to suspect thatay have a 9 drinking problem?
10 MR I know he drinks or has 11 cocktails.
12 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And you know that 13 because of your contact with him or because he talks 14 about it?
SMR. Well, I remember when I 16 worked with him, he would go out with his.wife and,.
17 you know, I'd say, "Well, what did you do last 18 night?" ."Well, we went to.the Chatter House, had a 19 few drinks, went out to eat."
20 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Are you 21 aware of any occasion whe or any other 22 Day & Zimmerman employee was asked to be 23 fitness-for-duty tested and refused?
24 MR. No.
25 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. What would NEAL R. GROSS ""fi/
COURT REPORTERS-AND TRANSCRIBERS Aflfl fIflflr I %.
f-Ai, 411tt
13 1 happen if an employee refused?.
2 I would have to escort him 3 off-site or go to security with him and do some 4 paperwork. You'd have to log everything.
5 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Did you ever 6 askt o be fitness-for-duty tested?
7 MR. No.
8 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: All right. And 9 besides did anyone identify to you anyone 10 else while you with working at Kewaunee that was 11' unfit for duty?
12 MR. No.
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Are you aware of --
14 MR*i Well,- I had -- this is.-- I 15 mean this should be all okay With that answer no, 16 but I did have somebody who tested positive before 17 they -- when they did their drug screen, and then 18 Darlene Peters had called me and we had to bring 19 that person up because they had failed the drug 20 screen, and then they were'escorted out, off-site.
21 I can't remember the worker's name, but there was 22 some -- an instance for that where they didn't pass 23 the screen.
24 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Just one that you.
25 can recall?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS jj12.4 RHrnl= I*1j AKIn A%/= MI W~
14 I MR. Yes.
2 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. What about 3 random testing, do you recall people being randomly 4 selected?
5 MR. Yes.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Are supervisors 7 included in that pool?
8 MR. Yes.
9 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Any supervisors 10 selected?
11 MR. Yes, I believe I had a 12 foreman or a general foreman. I thought there was a 13 couple times guys got called.
14 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Haq_
15 ever called in and said he was unfit for 16 duty?
.17 MR. No.
18 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: I realize you guys i9 aren't on-call, you have regular hours?
20 MR.- Yeah, we have a standard 21 shift.
.22 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And explain 23 to me generally what the rule is. Is it a five-hour
.24 rule, you're not supposed to have any alcohol for 25 five hours before coming on-site?
NEAL R. GROSS "6 01 IRT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
15 1 M Five hours no alcohol. If 2 you believe that there's even a question, you're 3 supposed to stop and you can -- you can take a 4 Breathalyzer.
5 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And we talked a 6 little bit about this before we went on the record.
7 Do you know why anyone would claiift 8 for duty?
9MR. I'm going'to say that 10 there's hard feelings because of an early layoff and 11 there were also people that wanted foreman's 12 positions, general foreman's positions,. and some of 13 the people were very bold about saying that they 14 thought they should have a position, they were owed 15 a position, and to. me it -- whe 16 .;3came out there, he was.requested by the 17 plant. From my understanding, he's been coming out 18 there for over twenty years, running the:ISI program 19 which is-something he knows like the back of his 20 hand, so I had no question about that, and he would 21 be working for the plant. He worked for Day &
22 Zimmerman as.far as getting a check, but basically, 23 he got his layout from the plant personnel, so I 24 knew when he came out he was going to go work for
.25 the plant, but before he -- they had the work for NEAt R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANf AVF" NW
16
.1 him, he helped us out a little .bit, and some of the 2 people said, well, "How can he just come out as a 3 foreman?" And I said, "It's something that the 4 plant has set up with him. He does it every year."
5 And there were some people that were -- thought
.6 because they were there earlier, that they were next 7 in line to take a position, and it doesn't always 8 work out. That's --
9 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Did 10 . rt to you early on?.
11 MR. Yes.
12 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. For how long 13 would you say?
14 MR.; I'm going to say two, three 15 weeks, maybe a little longer. I mean, he always let 16 me know every day. He was in -- he was in another 17 area, but being that I tracked the time, he would --
18 he would pop in-the office and say, "Hi, I'm here",
19 and.if he needed any support from any of the 20" steamfitters for buffing pipe or the insulators for 21 removing insulation, he would -- he would say could 22 I get.X amount of people, and I would -- I would try 23 and help him-out in that aspect because I had to
.24 supply men to him when they needed them.
25 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Was he -hired in NEAL-R. GROSS T COURT REPORTERS 1323 AND TRANSCRIBERS RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 1
17 1 April also when you came on?
2 MR. I think he came like a 3 month or two later. I'm going to say late June, 4 early July, or maybe even -- I think sometime in 5 June maybe.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And then 7 after two.or three weeks his position changed from a 8 foreman to --
9 MR He was going to go work for 10 ISI, yes.
11 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And he reported to 12 somebody at Kewaunee?
13 MR. W Yes.
14 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: All right. Now, 15 when I asked you about problems with any 16 employees -- or I guess I didn't ask you that. Were 17 there specific problems with specific employees?
18 MR. Yes.
19 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And who were they?
2.0 1 Well, the biggest problem 21 wa 22 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And he was 23 someone who felt that he should have been a 24 supervisor or a foreman?
.25 'Yes.
NEAL R. GROSS
- COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS fla.................ta
18 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY:. Okay. Who else?
2 MR- And his biggest 3 thing was he was from down South and he was trying 4 to stay up here. If you're -- if you're.inr the 5 local for three years, you're -- you can clear into 6 the local and have work up here as a local hand, so 7 he was trying to get his time in so he could -- he 8 could move his family up here, or himself, and 9 somebody told him when he hired on that he would 10 always be here, and I said you -- I told him, you 11 never made a deal with me and I can't -- I can't 12 guarantee anybody a job because when they say they 13 don't have money or they don't need us here, we're 14 all laid off..
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And now 16 you're going to have to explain on the record the 17 conversation before we went on the record about the 18 outage was expected to last -- tell me that again --
19 so many days.
20 MR. Okay. We had a steam 21 generator replacement and the outage was scheduled 22 to be .73 days long. I believe it was day 18 I got a 23 phone call stating that X amount of people had to 24 be -- we had to start laying off people because we 25 were -- we were lacking funds to fund certain parts NEAL R. GROSS.
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS "
19 1 of the project. So, we had to let go of some 2 laborers and -- it started, I believe, with the 3 laborers and it went from there. For the next 4 couple weeks, we laid off a lot of people, and in 5 the long-run I believe we had wound down to 6 basically a skeleton-type crew of maybe less than 40 7 people by,-- by day 40.
8 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And were 9 and" two that were let go early?
10 MR. I don't remember the order that they went. I know I was trying to make 12 everybody happy, an I've known him 13 for a few years, and he's -- actually I considered
-14 him a friend and I know he had 15 W O I know I 16 was trying to take care of him even with allthe 17 grief that he had caused me because there were a lot 18 of different issues,. but I know he got-laid off way
.19 before what he expected to. As far as a time frame 20 goes, I can't say for .sure. And the same thing with 21 I believe. That was basically the same 22 way.
23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Right. And is 24 there -- when you're hired by Day & Zimmerman on 25 site, do you sign a contract for a specific number NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1 DWnr I ANIf A\10 ýJ W
20 1 of days?
2 MR. No.
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: So they're not 4 committed to paying you if they --
5 MR. No.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -- if they promise 7 you upfront it's going to be 72 days?
8 MR. No. The construction trade 9 is you go to jobs and when the job is complete, or 10 when they tell you that they're cutting back, that's 11 .just the way it-is, and you go down to the union 12 hall and go to the next job.
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And any 14 other employees that you can think of that you had a 15 problem with?
16 MR.J
- I Well, there were a lot
.17 of -- a lot of different issues, but if -- but if I
.18 had to say .for this issue, I would say that these 19 two guys probably have something to sar.. Possibly 20 It's hard. There were so many people 21 that were unhappy. because of this and. there were so 22 many people. The hardest part about this is you got 23 to understand that, you know, the reason I feel bad 24 about the whole situation with letting people go is 25 you have families, house payments, car-payments.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
-- ~- 1#%. IMl A&fl AU L-kMA
21 1 I'd keep everybody as long as I could if it was up 2 to me, but living in the real world that's not the 3 way it is.
4 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And did any 5 of these people that you mentioned have problems 6 withM m-0 also?
MR Well, I kno 7
8 and both questioned me about how a guy could 9 just come in and be a foreman right away and that's 10 when I had explained earlier about him running the ii *. ~~ ogram.
12 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. But 13 was a "
14-14 -MR46W ) Yes.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. So he had no 16 sights on.being a foreman, did he?
17 MR., It depended what day that 18 you talked to him. He had told me that he could 19 have had my job. So I -- that's what I mean. It 20 all depends what -- you kind of take it differently 21 each day.
22 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And were 23 these concerns tha an ad serious 24 enough that they would make false accusations 25 against about being unfit for duty?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
22 1 MR2 I believe they were mad 2 enough that they could be deceitful if -- I might as 3 well throw this out: I had another issue about the 4 control room ai~r conditioning piping, about some of 5 the supports that were welded up there, about the 6 guy who welded them not being qualified. I had an 7 issue with the service water piping,, that that 8 wasn't done by procedure, and I know when-Hal Walker 9- checked all the paperwork and everything else, he 10 had said there's nothing that you have done wrong, 11 and I had told him that I didn't -- I wouldn't 12 intentionally do anything.wrong and if there's 13 something he couild find, to let .me know so I 14 wouldn't make'the mistake again-so --
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And are you saying 16 that these two brought these issues up also?
17 MR. Well, I --
18 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Or-you don't know?
19 MR I don't know, but I just --
20 there was -- there was so many things that. kept 21 popping up and it all kind of revolved around the 22 piping, the mechanical aspect, which was'the 23 steamfitters. The other people that had ii problem,
.24 they would-deal with me one-on-one about, you know, 25 if they were getting laid off or if they ere NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
23 1 unhappy about something, but the fitters never, you 2 know, came and sat down in your office and would 3 talk to you one-on-one and say there was a problem.
4 They'd -- it was like they were trying to get even 5 with people.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And for the record, Hal Walker is who?
8 MR. From my understanding, Hal 9 Walker was an investigator that was hired by the NMC 10 to check into some of the things that were going on.
11 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Did anyone 12 raise fitness-for-duty concerns to you abou'*li 13 14 No.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Did you tel4&-
16 recently that some of the workers had?.
MR.* I told
- 17 18 and I talked after all this stuff started happening, 19 and I said that there was an issue about his fitness 20 for duty.
21 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Did.you 22 identify anybody specifically?
- 23. 4RII-didn't -- I didn't know 24 because nothing has been told to me about the names.
25 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY:' Oka Ad when'did NEAL R. GROSS-COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 41A9 P*rflf IRI AMn A\IF 'J W
24 1 you have that conversation, after December of 2001?
2 MR. Yes.
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Was --
MR.
- Basically after*
4 5 was gone.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Did you ever 7 discuss fitness-for-duty concerns about*
8 with Day & Zimmerman management?
9 MR.. Just after we started 10 having the meetings. -I had-- I had mentioned to 11 them what was going on. There was a 12 fitness-for-duty issue and that's what it was about.
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And after --
14 MR. It was after the fact.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: After December?
16 MR. Yes.
17 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.
1.8 MR.Itwas 19 didn't work for us anymore and after I had talked:to 20 Hal Walker and I was told that there was an issue.
-21 Otherwise,. I knew of no problem.
22 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And were you 23 aware that an issue was raised about your fitness 24 for duty?.
25 MR.* Yes.,
NEAL R.GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
25 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY:. Okay. And how do 2 you know'that?
3 MR. Darlene Peters and I think 4 it was Cheryl Andrews was in the meeting with her, 5 and they were asking me questions because my badge 6 was put on admin hold while there was more 7 investigating going on back in, gosh, I'm going to 8 say February, sometime around then, my badge was put 9 on admin hold for ten days while they investigated 10 some more, and Hal Walker came in and then one of 11 the last days Darlene had called me into the office 12 and, like I said, I believe it was Cheryl Andrews 13 was in there as a witness writing stuff down, and 14 they brought up, I thought it Was them, that they 15 brought up that they had even questioned my fitness 16 for duty, and they had gone on to-ask me, you know, 17 how often I drank and stuff like that, and I had to
- 18. chuckle to a certain extent because, like I had said 19 -earlier about the issues, just when one issue fails, 20 something else seems to pop up,'and I'm -- a lot of 21 -people know me and I go to the gym at night and I go 22 to the gym right after work.. I stop at home, get my 23 bag. I don't go out very often.'
24 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And were you 25 ultimately *badged?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
26 1 MR Yes.
2 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. So the first 3 you heard about it was when you went to work at 4 Point Beach?
5 MR. Yes.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: That was in 7 February of 2002. Okay. So nobody ever questioned 8 you while you worked at Kewaunee --
9 MR. Oh, no.
10 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -- and said that 11 they thought you were unfit?
12 MR.V ý No 13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Nobody requested 14 you to go be'tested?
MR.No 9=
15 16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Nobody in Day &
17 Zimmerman management ever questioned you?
18 MR. No.
- 19 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. So, 20 basicallythe whole fitness-for-duty concern thing 21 never came up while you were employed at Kewaunee?
- 22 MR. No.
23 SPECIAL AGENT. FAHEY: Okay. It was all
.24 after the fact?
25 M *5 Yes.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
27 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY:. Okay. Let's talk 2 abo again. Did you ever smell 3 alcohol on him?
4 MR. No.
5 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Did you ever 6 see any other indications that he was unfit for
- 7. duty?
8 MR. . No.
9 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Slurring of his 10 speech or unsteady on his feet?
11 MR. No.
12 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And you said 13 earlier he checked in with you pretty much every 14 morning for a 'period of time or the whole time?
15 MR. Basically the whole outage.
16 .My trailer, my office, and we had. a trailer set up 17 right inside the security parameter where everybody 18 would badge through.the gate, our trailer was right
.19 inside that area. would walk into the 20 trailer, pop his head in my office, and give me a 21 little wave "I'm here" and then he would let me know 22 if he needed anything.
23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Let's go off 24 the record for a minute.
25 (Discussion held off the record.)
- .NEAL.R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
28 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: We're back on. All 2 right. And you said he would give you a wave just 3 acknowledging that he was present for the day?
- 4. MR. Yes,.just to let me know he 5 was there.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Do you recall him 7 missing'any work time?
8 MR.* : No.
9 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: How many people 10 worked forl do you know,-or under him?
11 MR. It varied. You know, once 12 in a while it was nobody and sometimes I would say 13 maybe he'd have, you know, a dozen or a couple, more 14 than a dozen.. Sometimes if he needed scaffold 15 built, carpenters would work for him and laborers,.
16 and then, like I said, sometimes he'd have to have 17 insulation removed off pipe so some insulators might 18 remove insulation and then the pipe fitters would 19 have to buff the pipe for inspection.
20 SPECIALAGENT FAHEY: Generally are 21 employees hesitant to report a co-worker as being 22 unfit?.
23 MR. Can you repeat that?
24 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Generally are
. 25 employees hesitant to report a co-worker as unfit?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
29 1 MR.AANIow 7 Generally?
2 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Um-hmm.
3 MR. Not that I'm aware of.
4 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Is there any 5 unspoken code of silence that you don't want to get 6 somebody else in trouble?
7 MR. Not that I'm aware of.
8 SPECIAL AGENT.FAHEY: Has Day & Zimmerman 9 or NMC ever discouraged any employees from reporting 10 anyone?
11 No.
12 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And specifically 13 fitness-for-duty concerns?
14 MR No.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Are you 16 aware of any employee being retaliated against 17 because they reported somebody?
18 MR No.
19 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: How about the 20 union, do they discourage that?
- 21. MRI No. Our union actually has 22 a fitness for duty now in place for its workers that 23 they test you and I -- I don't know how often it 24 happens.- I know they just implemented it in the 25 last two or three years, where everybody had to come NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSdRIBERS 4 DLJr- '
0"'V 101 Akr, AMIC KI %At 1
30 1 in or'else the contractor you were working for had 2 you test for them, so the union actually supports 3 fitness for duty.
4 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And you're 5 talking about Union 400?
6 MR.= Yes.
7 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Local 400?
8 R Yes.
9 SPECIAL-AGENT FAHEY: Is that out of 10 Green Bay?
11 R Yes.
12 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And does that make 13 it quicker for you to get on-site or get hired --
14 No.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -- 'if the union can
- 16. vouch for you?
17 1 I would say no. It's -just 18 they.... they. know whether or not a guy is probably 19 wil.ling to go out and go through everything that
- 20. they go through with the testing and everything 21 else. Some guys might not be as gung-ho to show up 22 to make money as others that don't have problems.
23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.- And I. asked 24 you this before, but let me just get it again. Are 25* you aware of any employee who knew that you were NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
31" 1 unfit for duty yet failed to report you?
2 MR No.
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And if 4 another employee had reported to you that they 5 thought you were unfit for duty, what would you do 6 or what are you required to do?
7 ,MR. Well, I would have either 8 hadt take me tosecurity or just went with 9 that person to security, had them walk me up.
10 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And when you 11 get to security to be tested ...
12 MR. es.
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -- okay, is that 14 where you go?*
15 MR Yes.
16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. If another 17 employee suspected that you were unfit for duty, 18 what are they required to do?
19 MR@ They're required to go to 20 their supervisor. Now, if I would be the supervisor 21 in question, I would say they should -- they should 22 pick another supervisor.
23 SPECIAL AGENT.FAHEY: Okay.
24 M Or else --
25 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY:. Or go. above you?.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1.q1a Nrbl R1~ RHnrIFI~ n I ~ai
32 MR. 011 Yes.
1 2 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And that 3 would have been. -
4 MR. Yes.
5 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -. Okay.
6 And just for the record, do you understand the 7 underlying premise about the importance of being 8 fitness -- of the fitness-for-duty program while 9 working at a nuclear power plant?
10 MR. Yes.
1i SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And you worked 12 enough here to understand and be trained?*
.13 MR.i, Yes. Like I was telling 14 you earlier,. or I might have been telling you before 15 Mary.Kay got here, but we have a mod going on right 16 now, IWP for the control room, so I have guys in the 17 control room all day long on and off. We're getting
.18 ready for temporary chillers for the control room 19 when they're upgrading this summer and there's a lot 20 of things that could go ýirong if somebody bumps 21 something. You need to be on your toes to begin 22 with. So to me it's-pretty important, especially --
23 I mean every day it's important, but now that I have 24 people in there, and something happens, they come 25 back to me, it's very important.
NEAL R. -GROSS
-COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
33 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY:. Okay. Have you 2 ever seen any drinking on-site?
3 MRNo.
4 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Of alcohol?
5 MR. No.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And we 7 talked a little bit before we were on the record.
8 You said that explained that his badge 9 had -- he had not been badged when he went to Point 10 Beach or came here?
11 MR. Yes.
12 SPECIAI. AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And what did 13 he explain to you was the reason or did he know the 14 -reason?
- 1. MR.. I don't think he knew the 16 reason. I don't know if-anybody has ever really.
17 given him anything other than all these questions.
18 There's a concern on fitness for duty,7but I don't 19 think anybody has ever given him anything concrete 20 that -- why they can -- why they -- why he hasn't 21 gotten his badge. There's a question so far as 22 Point Beach going, they have to investigate to make 23 sure that there's no ifs, ands, or buts, but for --
24 in A eyes he's still wondering because he 25 doesn't see where there was a problem because O NEALPR. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
34 1 nothing has ever been brought to him or nobody -- at 2 the time he found out about this, he was already 3 laid off. I found out about this, it was a surprise 4 to me, so even for me I say, gosh, 2I don't --. I 5 don't know really what the reason is because if they 6 had something concrete where somebody said, "Let's 7 go get you tested, I don't think you're fit for 8 duty", you would go blow in a tube, take a 9 urinalysis, and it would be straightened out.
10 There's no -- you either are or you aren't, but to 11 have where somebody makes an accusation, I think the 12 plant can't say, well, you're not fit for duty, but at the same time there's a question so they're 14 investigating'so -- so he's kind of been up in the 15 air and that's what I've gotten so far.
16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Have you 17 ever had occasion to be fitness-for-duty tested?
18 MR. Yes.
19 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. At Kewaunee?
20 MR. I Yes. It was -- this was a 21 random, though. I think it was in maybe the early 22 '90s or --
23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Is that the last 24 time?
25 MR For a random?-
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
35 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Yes.
2 MR. I believe so.
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. What about 4 not for a random?
5 MR.S Well, every time.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Oh, *okay. Just the 7 routine upon entry?
8 MR. Yes. Nothing where 9 somebody had an issue with me where I--
10 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. It was 11 hiring testing?
12 MR. , .\ Yes.
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And that's 14 each time you'come on-site?
15 M. i Yes.
16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And would bj 17 - be subject to the same?
18 MR. Yes.
-.----- ;eve 19 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Has' ever 20 indicated to you that he has any sort of medical 21 condition?
22 ;shasn't. I've heard 23 scuttlebutt about something with a flapper in his 24 throat that doesn't close right. And like I said 25 earlier, you don't know what's true and what's not
- NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
36 1 true, but you hear stories.
2 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. But nothing 3 that you can confirm -
4 MNo.
5 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: -- or anything?
6 Okay. And when you do this hiring testing, is it 7 strictly a blood test and urinalysis or is there 8 actually a physical -- a doctor gives you a
- 9. physical?
10 MR Yes. We -- they have a --
11 it's -- I believe it's a nurse, but she could be a 12 doctor, but you come in, you go and you -- you.have 13 to empty your pockets, wash your hands. Then they 14 go through the -- they have you pick out a cup. You 15 have to urinate in the cup. Then they -- you have 16 to sign and everything gets closed up. Then you're 17 allowed to wash your hands again. Then you go to 18 another room and blow in a~tube for alcohol a 19 couple -- I think it's two times that they do it for 20 both, and, two or three times, and then you're done 21 with .that and then you get your results within a 22 couple of days.
23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: No blood pressure 24 and other stuff taken?
25 M I think they -- they've
-NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
37 1 done it in the past. I can't remember if they did 2 the last time. I think sometimes when you -- when 3 you come, they might do that, but I can't say for 4 sure. I remember in the past there's been times 5 when they've done it. Now I haven't -- you knowi 6 I've been flopping back and forth, so I'm not always 7 getting like where if I -- I went two weeks ago to 8 do some work up at Kewaunee, so I didn't -- I didn't 9 have it where I had to take a -- blow in the tube or 10 a urinalysis.
ii SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.
12 MR. Because we're considered 13 one site, but it's been a little while since I have 14 so I can't -- can't say whether or not I had a 15 high blood pressure test or any of that.
16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And then.
17 just a couple of follow-up questions about your 18 condition. Have you ever violated that five-hour 19 rule?
20 MR No.
21 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Have you ever 22 arrived at work smelling of alcohol?
23 MR No.
24 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Anyone at work ever 25 told you you smelled of alcohol?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
38 1 No.
2 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And despite the 3 five-hour rule,. have you everfelt you were impaired 4 when you arrived at work?
5 MR, No.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: All *right. I don't 7 think I have any other questions. Let's go off the 8 record for one minute.-
9 (Discussion held off the record.)
10 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. We're back 11 on the.record. . do you have anypart in the 12 hiring process for Day & Zimmerman?
13 MR. . I did up the road.
- 14. SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: At Kewaunee?
15 MR Yes.
16 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: All right. So you 17 mentioned these three employees that you had a 18 problem with:. an Did you 19 have any say in hiring them or laying them off 20 early?
21 MR ý I had say in all the
- 22 layoffs, and the hirings. The way the hirings work 23 is I call the union hall and tell them how many 24 people I need and they supply them. They give me 25 .the names. So you can pick certain people. If you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
39 1 need a foreman or a general foreman or a supervisor, 2 you can go by name and call them off a list of say 3 whosever on the list. was working at 4 Point Beach at the time when I went up to Kewaunee.
5 Originally he had asked about coming up and being a 6 foreman and I said it probably wouldn't be a 7 problem, to wait and see what happens, and when we 8 hire more people, we should be able to give him a 9 shot at being a foreman because -- I remember this:
10 He had told me, "I'm )years old, I'm not going to 11 burn rod my whole life", meaning welding rod, and-I 12 told him, "Yeah, if you want a shot, I'll give.you a 13 shot." But what happened was there was another --
14 there.was a site manager down here who had told me 15 that there's no way in hell that you're going to 16 ma foreman, and when I to1 17 that, he didn't believe me,. and that's kind of where 18 things started .going downhill wit and I I 19 have a Day& Zimmerman file where there's probably 20 three or four violations that were just written on 21 With one written violation, I can
- I can 22 lay him off or fire him. There's rules that Day&
23 Zimmerman has. And I had mentioned earlier, I know 24 he haas he can have a bad temper and 25 sometimes his mouth can move before he- thinks things NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
40 1 through, and I knew he had
[
2 :that he's taking care of and a big 3 payment t and I just kind of let 4 things go in one ear and out the other hoping that 5 they would go away.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. What about 7 the otherttwo guys" an, 8 MR.
- As far as?
9 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Hiring them or --
10 did they just come to you on a list?
MR i came up from--
12 I don't know if he's fr or 13 somewhere in that area, and I had -- I didn't know 14 who he was or.:anything.. He had _- I believe he had is been here before, though, that's how he got here, 16 and- he -- the hall -- the hall had sent him.
17 I know him, but I didn't ask for him or anything.
.18 He just came through the hall.
.19 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And did you 20 specifically request anybody as foreman or general
.21 'foreman from the union?
22 MR. Yes.
23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Off the list?
24 MR.S Yes.
25 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.- Was one of NEAL R. GROSS 11BERS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCE
. 1323 RHODE ISt.AND AVF. N.
41 1 them
- 2 MR. Yes, but that was because 3 the plant had asked me to ask for him. The plant 4 can't call for him. .I have to. So they asked me to 5 have him referred out there so I did.
6 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And just as 7 the plant can__eqest employee, they can tell 8 you, like inA case,.who you're not going to 9 hire as a foreman or general foreman?
10 MR. Well, that was -- that was 11 through my boss from Day.& Zimmerman.
12 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Well, you 13 said site manager.
14 MR. The site manager for us.
15 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Not at the 16 plant. But they certainly have that right to say
.17 who comes on site and who doesn't?
18 MR. They could give you -- they 19 could give you their opinion.. Now I could say no, I 20 don't agree with that and we would talk about it 21 because I work for the customer obviously and I want 22 them to be happy, but I haven't had that problem 23 with anybody. 'They normally, with the position I 24 have, they entrust in me to have good judgment.
25 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.. So far as NEAL R. GROSS._
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
42 1 you know, in your experience the licensee never 2 stepped in and directed --
3 MR No. The one -- the only 4 case where they asked for any -- for me to hire 5 anybody was cause he had been 6 running that program for 22, 23 years, whatever it 7 may be, and that's who they always had do it.
8 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. Now I would 9 think if you had some control over the hiring and 10 layoff process, these guys would be even nicer to 11 you and not giving you a problem.
12 M' Well, that's where the 13 friendship part of it came in. You know, a guy gets 14 to be your friend and he -- sometimes you -- you 15 treat the people you know best the worst and take 16 advantage of them.
17 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. And do you
- 18. know, ha pretty much worked at Point 19 Beach and Kewaunee,* do you know if he works outside 20 of those 21 MR Oh, yes, he works -- he 22 works--
23 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Other industry?
24 MR. Well, yes, around Green 25 Bay, the paper mills.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
43 1 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay.
2 MR Green Bay has a lot of 3 paper mills.
4 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And you said you 5 did know him from other work?
6 MR.-., Yes.
7 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: And is there. a lot 8 of work up here -- this is just general 9 information -- or do you have big periods of 10 layoffs?
.11 MR. 'Most of the time there's a 12 lot of work.
13 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay..
14 Things are -.- the economy 15 has slowed a little bit this past year, but in 16 general there's usually quite a bit of work.
17 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. I don't 18 think I have any other questions. Mr. have 19 I threatened you in any manner or offered you any 20 reward in return for your statement?-
21 MR No.
22 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Have you given your 23 statement freely and voluntarily?
24 MR. es 25 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Anything further NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS . -
44 1 you care to-add for the record?.
2 MR.No.
3 SPECIAL AGENT FAHEY: Okay. We're 4 concluded at approximately 12:20 p.m.
5 (Proceedings concluded at 12:20 p.m.)
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
-1*'2-' Dt..l~lr'% I01 A&li' A%fý" - SANr
CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Interview of Docket Number: N/A Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcrip t thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
Christie Wydeven Official Reporter Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS