ML25188A225
| ML25188A225 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Palisades  |
| Issue date: | 07/07/2025 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| SECY RAS | |
| References | |
| RAS 57396, 50-255-LA-4 | |
| Download: ML25188A225 (0) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
ASLBP Hearing, Holtec Palisades, LLC Docket Number:
50-255-LA-4 25-988-01-LA-BD01 Location:
teleconference Date:
Tuesday, July 2, 2025 Work Order No.:
NRC-0383 Pages 1-14 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1716 14th Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20009 (202) 234-4433
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
+ + + + +
3 ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD PANEL 4
+ + + + +
5 HEARING 6
x 7
In the Matter of: :
8 HOLTEC PALISADES, LLC : Docket No. 50-255-LA-4 9
- ASLBP No. 25-988-01-LA-BD01 10 11
x 12 13 Tuesday, July 2, 2025 14 Video/Teleconference 15 16 BEFORE:
17 MICHAEL M. GIBSON, Chair 18 GARY S. ARNOLD, Administrative Judge 19 ARIELLE J. MILLER, Administrative Judge 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
2 APPEARANCES:
1 On Behalf of HOLTEC PALISADES, LLC:
2 M. STANFORD BLANTON, ESQ.
3 GRANT ESKELSEN, ESQ.
4 of:
Balch & Bingham LLP 5
1710 Sixth Avenue North 6
Birmingham, AL 35203 7
sblanton@balch.com 8
geskelsen@balch.com 9
10 On Behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission:
11 SHERWIN E. TURK, ESQ.
12 ANITA GHOSH NABER, ESQ.
13 KEVIN BERNSTEIN, ESQ.
14 KRIS WILSON, ESQ.
15 Office of the General Counsel 16 Mail Stop - O-15 D21 17 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 18 Washington, D.C. 20555-0001 19 sherwin.turk@nrc.gov 20 21 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
3 APPEARANCES: (continued) 1 On Behalf of Beyond Nuclear, Don't Waste Michigan, 2
Michigan Safe Energy Future, Three Mile Island Alert, 3
and Nuclear Energy:
4 WALLACE L. TAYLOR, ESQ.
5 4403 1st Avenue, S.E., Suite 402 6
Cedar Rapids, IA 52402 7
wtaylorlaw@aol.com 8
9 10 TERRY J. LODGE, ESQ.
11 316 N. Michigan Street, Suite 520 12 Toledo, OH 43604 5627 13 tjlodge@yahoo.com 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
4 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 1
(11:31 a.m.)
2 CHAIR GIBSON: Good morning. This is 3
Judge Gibson. We're here this morning in Docket 4
Number 50-255-LA-4, which concerns the matter of 5
Holtec Palisades' proposed license amendment.
6 With me on this call are Judges Arnold and 7
Miller, as well as our law clerk, Whitlee Dean.
8 I would now like to have announcements of 9
counsel, beginning with Petitioners.
10 MR. TAYLOR: This is Wally Taylor.
11 MR. LODGE: Good morning. This is Terry 12 Lodge for Petitioners.
13 CHAIR GIBSON: Thank you.
14 Applicant?
15 MR. BLANTON: Stan Blanton with Balch &
16 Bingham for Holtec.
17 MR. ESKELSEN: Good morning. Grant 18 Eskelsen, also for Holtec.
19 CHAIR GIBSON: Great. Okay.
20 And NRC staff?
21 MR. TURK: Good morning, Your Honors.
22 This is Sherwin Turk. With me today are Anita Ghosh 23 Naber, Kevin Bernstein, Chris Wilson, and we have some 24 members of the NRC staff with us present, Justin 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
5 Poole, who is the project manager for Palisades, also 1
Andrew Johnson and Paul Klein.
2 CHAIR GIBSON: Okay. Thank you.
3 This will not be a long conference, I 4
assure you. We've convened this get-together here 5
because we need to consider a couple of administrative 6
matters that have arisen in the last couple of days.
7 First, in the course of reviewing an 8
expert affidavit that was attached to the petition, we 9
encountered a document that raises some concerns for 10 us. Specifically, on page 26 of the affidavit, 11 footnote 52, there is a link to a document. And when 12 you click on the link, one is led to Petitioners' 13 website, which hosts that document.
14 However, the document is marked as 15 proprietary and confidential by the Applicant. And 16 unfortunately, because it is on that website, the 17 general public can access it as well.
18 Now, as a practical matter, we realize 19 that this document is a 2022 document, and the 20 information that is contained in it may well be in the 21 public domain, though I should add that the document 22 does not appear to be in the NRC's ADAMS document 23 repository.
24 In any event, all of us are duty bound to 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
6 honor the Applicant's designation of it being 1
proprietary and confidential, unless and until the 2
Applicant advises us that it's no longer proprietary 3
and confidential, or I suppose if there were to be an 4
adjudication that the document is actually no longer 5
proprietary and confidential.
6 So that's all one way around of getting to 7
say that we would ask that the parties prepare a 8
status report for us to be filed in a week, let's say 9
July 9, that confirms three things.
10 First, that the linked document with these 11 markings has been removed from the Petitioners' 12 website.
13 Secondly, whether the information in the 14 document is now in the public domain.
15 And third, regardless of that document 16 specifically, that the parties confirm to us that 17 whenever any party references a document that is not 18 in the public domain, that document will not be 19 hyperlinked, but instead the party seeking to use that 20 document will provide the Board and the parties with 21 a hard copy of any such document.
22 So is -- let's start with Counsel for the 23 Petitioners. Are you agreeable to that?
24 MR. TAYLOR: This is Wally Taylor. Yes.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
7 And I would also note I just pulled up the petition 1
and the footnote 52. That is an application that was 2
made by Holtec to federal and state agencies for 3
financial support, and we got that through a public 4
records request from the state agency, whatever the 5
Michigan state agency was. So that's where that came 6
from.
7 So we assumed it was in the public domain, 8
since we got it through a public records request.
9 CHAIR GIBSON: Certainly understandable 10 why you would think that. However, the problem is 11 that the document is marked as proprietary and 12 confidential. And for that reason, we don't want 13 anything like that to be available to the public if it 14 is marked public and -- proprietary and confidential.
15 So if it's out in the public domain, you 16 all can put that in the status report, and we just 17 want you to be sure that we're not posting things on 18 websites that are not in the public domain. Okay?
19 MR. TAYLOR: Okay. And again, what was 20 the due date for this status --
21 CHAIR GIBSON: July 9.
22 MR. TAYLOR: July 9th?
23 CHAIR GIBSON: It's not a terribly 24 complicated status report. We just need -- we just 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
8 want to be sure these things are confirmed for us.
1 MR. TAYLOR: Okay.
2 CHAIR GIBSON: Okay? Counsel for the 3
Applicant, is that okay with you?
4 MR. BLANTON: Perfectly fine, Your Honor, 5
and thank you for bringing it to our attention.
6 CHAIR GIBSON: Sure. And Counsel for the 7
NRC staff?
8 MR. TURK: Yes, Your Honor. It should be 9
fine.
10 CHAIR GIBSON: Okay. Great. Okay. Let 11 me ask, Judge Arnold, Judge Miller, is there anything 12 else we need to bring up about that?
13 JUDGE ARNOLD: Not -- no, I have nothing.
14 CHAIR GIBSON: Okay. Okay. Now --
15 JUDGE MILLER: I don't have anything 16 either.
17 CHAIR GIBSON: Okay. Very well. Okay.
18 Very well. Thank you.
19 Now, the second thing we need to consider 20 is the non-public aspect of this proceeding. Even 21 though Petitioners filed their petition in the 22 non-public document, they did not mark their petition 23 as non-public. In addition, they refiled the same 24 petition in the public docket.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
9 So it's not at all clear to the Board 1
that, except with the possibility of this 2022 2
document that may well be in the public domain anyway, 3
there is anything proprietary and confidential here.
4 I don't want to put you all on the spot. I'm sure 5
there's lots of documents that you all are going to be 6
using.
7 But let me just ask Counsel for the 8
Applicant, is there any reason you can see for this to 9
be designated as a non-public proceeding?
10 MR. BLANTON: We have not -- now, I admit 11 we haven't identified the document that you -- that 12 Your Honor just pointed out. But as far as the 13 Framatome proprietary information that we sought a 14 protective order for, we do not see anything in the 15 petition that references any of that protected 16 information, and we don't anticipate that our answer 17 will.
18 I don't know what the Petitioners may do 19 in response to our answers, but so far we don't see 20 any protected information in the record that would 21 necessitate it being in a non-public docket.
22 CHAIR GIBSON: Okay. Very well. Thank 23 you.
24 Counsel for the NRC staff?
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
10 MR. TURK: Your Honor, we actually defer 1
to the Applicant on decisions of what information is 2
proprietary and that requires protection from 3
disclosure. I would note, however, that when I look 4
at the license amendment request, large portions of 5
the publicly available documents are redacted.
6 So I don't know whether testimony or 7
verbal discussions were involved in the material that 8
is redacted. So I can see there may well be a need 9
for a non-public hearing. I can't say that 10 definitively, but I see the potential.
11 CHAIR GIBSON: Okay. Excellent point.
12 Excellent point.
13 Counsel for the Petitioners?
14 MR. LODGE: We believe -- Your Honor, this 15 is Terry Lodge. We believe that -- we certainly 16 concur, I should say, with the Applicant.
17 But as things prospectively appear, it is 18 pretty doubtful that we will be relying on any of the 19 confidential Framatome information. I can't guarantee 20 it 100
- percent, and I'm not making that 21 representation, 100 percent, but it doesn't look to us 22 like we're going to have any need to refer to that in 23 any way in arguments or pleadings before the Board.
24 CHAIR GIBSON: Okay. Okay. Very well.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
11 Then I think -- I'm not sure -- and you all can 1
indicate that in your status report, but I think what 2
we ought to do at this point is we would still like to 3
get your -- I know I put you all on the spot a little 4
bit here, but, you know, you all can confer among 5
yourselves, think about it, and hopefully -- and so --
6 and if you can't make a decision by -- you know, 7
together or even you don't -- you just don't know, 8
that's fine. Specify that.
9 But if we can make this non-public or make 10 it public, it would certainly make things easier for 11 us, because right now we're sort of in this 12 never-never-land, and we don't want to stay there.
13 Okay?
14 So if you all could add that to your 15 status report to be filed by July 9, we'd appreciate 16 it.
17 And counsel, I would add that if there is 18 a need for a non-public designation, you will need to 19 refile your petition with appropriate markings that it 20 is non-public. You put it in a non-public docket, but 21 you didn't mark your petition that way. Okay?
22 So let me ask, Judge Arnold, Judge Miller, 23 anything else to note?
24 JUDGE ARNOLD: No.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
12 CHAIR GIBSON: Okay.
1 JUDGE MILLER: No. Nothing from me.
2 CHAIR GIBSON: Okay. Thank you. Thank 3
you, Judge Miller.
4 Okay. Finally, in the event that the 5
Board determines that it would be appropriate to hold 6
oral argument on the admissibility of Petitioners' 7
contention, we would ask the parties to confer among 8
yourselves as to whether an in-person oral argument 9
here in the NRC's hearing room is appropriate or 10 whether it can be done virtually.
11 And I should add that if it is -- you all 12 decide it could be done virtually, we need to confirm 13 in advance that everyone can be connected 14 appropriately, so that we won't encounter any of the 15 technical issues that occurred in a previous Palisades 16 oral argument.
17 Can you all do that for us?
18 MR. TAYLOR: Sure.
19 CHAIR GIBSON: Thank you. Very well.
20 Okay. Judge Arnold, Judge Miller, 21 anything else?
22 JUDGE ARNOLD: Nothing.
23 CHAIR GIBSON: Okay.
24 JUDGE MILLER: Nothing for me.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
13 CHAIR GIBSON: Two more things.
1 Thank you, Judge Miller.
2 Two more things. Don't forget that your 3
notices of appearance in this matter are due on July 4
- 11. And also, if there is anything that we just 5
covered that any of you think -- is there -- let me 6
just ask, is there anything that we just covered that 7
any of you think necessitates that this transcript be 8
placed in a non-public filing?
9 Counsel for the Petitioners?
10 MR. TAYLOR: No. This is Wally Taylor.
11 I don't see any reason.
12 MR. LODGE: Correct. This is Terry Lodge.
13 CHAIR GIBSON: Very well. Counsel for the 14 Applicant?
15 MR. BLANTON: Stan Blanton for Holtec, 16 Your Honor. No, we don't think it needs to be.
17 CHAIR GIBSON: Very well. And Counsel for 18 the NRC staff?
19 MR. TURK: No. We don't see anything that 20 needs to be protected.
21 CHAIR GIBSON: That's great.
22 Well, I know that we caught you all by 23 surprise a little bit, but we needed to get these 24 things, try to wind out, so we can proceed in an 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
14 appropriate manner.
1 I hope you all have a wonderful 4th of 2
July, and thank you so much. We stand adjourned.
3 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went 4
off the record at 11:46 a.m.)
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com