ML25134A221
| ML25134A221 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 04/03/2025 |
| From: | Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NRC-0290 | |
| Download: ML25134A221 (1) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
724th Meeting Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards Location:
teleconference Date:
Thursday, April 3, 2025 Work Order No.:
NRC-0290 Pages 1-86 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1716 14th Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20009 (202) 234-4433
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1
1 2
3 DISCLAIMER 4
5 6
UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSIONS 7
ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS 8
9 10 The contents of this transcript of the 11 proceeding of the United States Nuclear Regulatory 12 Commission Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards, 13 as reported herein, is a record of the discussions 14 recorded at the meeting.
15 16 This transcript has not been reviewed, 17 corrected, and edited, and it may contain 18 inaccuracies.
19 20 21 22 23
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
+ + + + +
3 724TH MEETING 4
ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS 5
(ACRS) 6
+ + + + +
7 THURSDAY 8
APRIL 3, 2025 9
+ + + + +
10 The Advisory Committee met via 11 Videoconference, at 1:00 p.m. EDT, Walter Kirchner, 12 Chair, presiding.
13 14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS:
15 WALTER L. KIRCHNER, Chair 16 GREGORY H. HALNON, Vice Chair 17 DAVID A. PETTI, Member-at-Large 18 RONALD G. BALLINGER 19 VICKI M. BIER 20 VESNA B. DIMITRIJEVIC 21 CRAIG D. HARRINGTON 22 ROBERT P. MARTIN 23 SCOTT P. PALMTAG 24 THOMAS E. ROBERTS 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
2 MATTHEW W. SUNSERI 1
2 ACRS CONSULTANT:
3 DENNIS BLEY 4
7 DESIGNATED FEDERAL OFFICIAL:
10 ALSO PRESENT:
11 SABRINA ATACK, Deputy Director, Office of 12 International Programs 13 MIKE KING, Special Assistant for ADVANCE Act 14 Implementation 15 PHIL MCKENNA, Deputy Director, Division of 16 Reactor Oversight, NRR 17 JAMIE PELTON, Deputy Director, Division of 18 Operating Reactor Licensing, NRR 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
3 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 1
1:02 p.m.
2 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Good afternoon. This is 3
the second day of the 724th meeting of the Advisory 4
Committee on Reactor Safeguards. I'm Walt Kirchner, 5
Chairman of the ACRS.
6 ACRS members in attendance today in person 7
are Ron Ballinger, Vicki Bier, Craig Harrington, 8
Gregory Halnon, Robert Martin, Scott Palmtag, Dave 9
Petti, Thomas Roberts. And virtually, we have Vesna 10 Dimitrijevic and Matt Sunseri. And Vicki is dealing 11 with a badge issue, and Scott is working on one of our 12 letter reports.
13 And we also have our consultants. I 14 believe Steve Schultz, Charlie Brown, and Dennis Bley 15 are out there as well. So I'll go around the table 16 and just ask starting with Ron. Just introduce 17 yourself quickly so Mike gets to meet you and the 18 short version.
19 MEMBER BALLINGER: Hello. I'm done.
20 (Laughter.)
21 MEMBER BALLINGER: I'm Ron Ballinger and 22 I'm an emeritus faculty member from MIT. And I do 23 corrosion materials which is otherwise known as a 24 black art.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
4 CHAIR KIRCHNER: He's being humble. He's 1
our resident metallurgist.
2 MEMBER HARRINGTON: Craig Harrington, one 3
of the new members. Just joined last year.
4 Background is materials degradation issues in both 5
commercial nuclear at a power plant and also at EPRI.
6 MEMBER ROBERTS: Tom Roberts. I retired 7
from Naval Reactors, was the Director of Reactor 8
Safety and Analysis. I spent about 25 years working 9
on I&C. Been on the committee about two years.
10 MEMBER PETTI: Hi, Mike. I'm Dave Petti, 11 been on the committee six years, six and a half, 12 something like that. I went to MIT. You'll hear that 13 a lot.
14 (Laughter.)
15 MEMBER PETTI: But my expertise is in 16 fuels, source term, and gas reactors.
17 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Great.
18 VICE CHAIR HALNON: Forget everything you 19 ever knew about, Mike.
20 MR. KING: Too late.
21 VICE CHAIR HALNON: I'm Greg Halnon. Been 22 in operating licensing, quality, security, EP through 23 my whole life at about a dozen nuclear plants.
24 MEMBER MARTIN: Bob Martin, on the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
5 committee almost two years. Came in about the same 1
time as Tom did. Primarily been industry nerd guy in 2
safety analysis and severe accident analysis.
3 VICE CHAIR HALNON: Didn't use the word 4
hazard.
5 MEMBER MARTIN: Hazard analysis.
6 (Laughter.)
7 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Vicki Bier is one of our 8
resident experts in PRA. And I think she'll join us 9
shortly if she can get her badge credentials done.
10 Matt, are you out there and Vesna? I see them on the 11 screen here.
12 MEMBER DIMITRIJEVIC: I was giving time to 13 Matt.
14 MEMBER SUNSERI: There we go.
15 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Go ahead, Matt. Why 16 don't you go first.
17 MEMBER SUNSERI: Yeah, for some reason, my 18 mic button was stuck. I'd click and wouldn't work.
19 So I'm Matt Sunseri. I'm a member. Been in my second 20 term almost ten years with the committee now. My 21 focus area is in plant operations in which I've worked 22 for almost 40 years. Thank you.
23 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Vesna.
24 MEMBER DIMITRIJEVIC: And I am Vesna 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
6 Dimitrijevic at MIT, another PRA in Boston remotely.
1 More sensitive to camera, so I'm not going to turn my 2
camera.
3 (Laughter.)
4 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Okay. We also have out 5
there Dennis Bley, who was the former chair of the 6
committee back when I joined it eight years ago.
7 Dennis?
8 DR. BLEY: Hi, yeah, I started out in the 9
Navy. My operating experience there was on the 10 Enterprise more 50 years ago. Electrical and nuclear 11 engineer, a lot of PRA work, and chairman once upon a 12 time of this committee.
13 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Steve, are you out there?
14 DR. SCHULTZ: I am. Steve Schultz, my 15 career was with Duke Energy, technical and operational 16 support to nuclear power plants for 33 years. I was 17 appointed to the committee in 2011 and was chair of 18 the Fukushima Subcommittee for four years, became a 19 consultant in 2016 to the committee. And focus in 20 areas of nuclear fuels and reactor analysis.
21 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Okay. And Charlie, is 22 Charlie on? One of our other consultants is Charlie 23 Brown, former member of the committee. He is leading 24 our digital I&C.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
7 MR. BROWN: I'm here. I momentarily lost 1
it, my whole -- I had to log back in. Yeah, I'm 2
Charlie Brown. I was in the naval reactor program for 3
35 years and up until 2000, and then I became a member 4
for -- I guess it was four terms. Now I'm just a 5
lowly consultant to help folks out.
6 (Simultaneous speaking.)
7 MR. BROWN: I was the I&C guy.
8 (Laughter.)
9 MR. BROWN: Sorry. I had to add a little 10 humor in there, Walt.
11 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Yes, okay. And I'm Walt 12 Kirchner. And I was pressed into service on the 13 Savannah some 55 years ago. So then Chairman Hanson 14 put that display out. I have a little corner in the 15 display cabinet in there. Also went on -- I went to 16 the same vocational school in Cambridge, and then my 17 career was with Los Alamos and Argonne. So Mike, 18 we'll turn it back to you and to introduce your 19 colleagues and yourself.
20 MR. KING: Great. Thank you so much for 21 the introductions. A distinguished panel you have 22 here. So first of all, thank you for the opportunity 23 to kind of brief you on what's going on across the 24 agency in response to the ADVANCE Act.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
8 We're about nine months into since the law 1
was passed. And just we'll quickly introduce 2
ourselves. And then we've prepared some material to 3
kind of give you an overview.
4 But this is your opportunity. Please feel 5
free to interrupt at any point. Ask questions, 6
follow-ups. We want to make this as productive as 7
possible for your members.
8 So I spent the -- I was former Navy 9
submarines. So I appreciate the Naval Reactors. I 10 went through that experience, trying to get my 11 engineering quals. So I don't recognize any of the 12 faces.
13 So I spent the first 11 years -- I've been 14 with the agency now about 20, first 11 years in Region 15 2 office in Atlanta. Eight years ago, I came up to 16 headquarters and had the privilege to lead the ADVANCE 17 Act activities over the past nine months in the Office 18 of the Executive Director. But next week, I start as 19 acting NRR director.
20 And luckily with us here today is Sabrina 21 Atack who will be picking up the reins on the ADVANCE 22 Act behind me. So Sabrina, you want to introduce 23 yourself?
24 MS. ATACK: Thanks, Mike. I'm Sabrina 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
9 Atack. I have about 20 years with the agency as well 1
where I worked in Naval Shipyard.
2 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Sabrina, could you just 3
pull that microphone closer?
4 MS. ATACK: Sure.
5 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Yeah, I didn't do all of 6
my script. That's one of the things we always warn 7
people.
8 MS. ATACK: My name is -- okay, there we 9
go. My name is Sabrina Atack. I've been with the 10 agency about 20 years. I've worked in Naval Shipyard 11 a couple years prior to that.
12 I've work in the Office of International 13 Programs right now. And I'm the lead for the mission 14 statement implementation guidance. And as Mike said, 15 will be taking the reins for the remaining ADVANCE Act 16 rotation effort.
17 MR. MCKENNA: I'm Phil McKenna. I'm 18 currently the deputy director of the Division of 19 Reactor Oversight at NRR. Previous to that, I had 25 20 years in the Navy as a submarine officer. Joined the 21 NRC 2008, five years at Region 1, three of those as 22 resident inspector in Salem, five years in Region 2, 23 all as the senior resident inspector at Surry. And 24 then I joined headquarters in 2018.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
10 MS. PELTON: Good afternoon. My name is 1
Jamie Pelton. I am the acting director of the 2
Division of Operating Reactor Licensing at NRR. I've 3
been with the agency for about 22 years. I started my 4
career here at headquarters actually in the Office of 5
Nuclear Security and Incident Response, spent 12 years 6
down in Region 2 in the construction organization 7
through various positions, a couple of years in Region 8
- 3. And I've been back in DORL for two and a half 9
years.
10 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Great. Thank you all for 11 being here. And we have to point out that Ron is also 12 a sub mariner.
13 MEMBER BALLINGER: Before you were born.
14 CHAIR KIRCHNER: His boat has been long 15 retired.
16 MEMBER BALLINGER: I'm older than I look.
17 MR. KING: I'll take that. So as many of 18 you are aware, in fact, your background, recently 19 celebrated our 50th anniversary as an agency. And 20 over that time period, you're well aware we've evolved 21 our regulations and our oversight programs in response 22 to different external factors and internal factors 23 over the years and advances in technology.
24 And so the ADVANCE Act has just provided 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
11 us another opportunity to accelerate our efforts in 1
that area. And so we've risen to challenging 2
circumstances in the past. And we're very confident 3
we're doing the same thing today in response to the 4
current environment.
5 And I just wanted to highlight some of the 6
landscape that we see today has significantly changed 7
over the past several years. The growing energy 8
demands partially in response to the nearly explosive 9
growth in AI has resulted in significant increase in 10 forecasted energy demands in the U.S.
and 11 internationally. And potential uses for nuclear 12 outside of just electrical generation, for example, 13 the recent Dow announcement yesterday is a good 14 example of that.
15 So a lot of interest in nuclear, we're 16 seeing that. In fact, part of the lessons learned 17 that we've experienced over the years is to really 18 keep our eyes open looking over the horizon about what 19 challenges the agency may be facing. What sort of 20 expertise and skills do we need. What technology is 21 on the horizon.
22 And so all indications are and in 23 particular in response to the ADVANCE Act and the 24 bipartisan support from both houses of Congress 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
12 indicates that there's significant importance to the 1
role the NRC plays in enabling energy security in the 2
United States and being ready for the anticipated 3
growth. So the ADVANCE Act is just one signpost and 4
marker as we call it amongst many indicating the 5
importance of what we've got to do in response to the 6
Act. In fact, NEI just recently released an updated 7
survey results of its members where 93 percent of the 8
95 units surveyed said they indicate they plan to come 9
in for approval job rate past 80 years and for at 10 least 80 years.
11 So that means the vast majority of their 12 current fleet is going to operate to 2050 and beyond.
13 Seventy-three percent of the surveyed sites have 14 interest in power uprates. So in response to tax 15 incentives and other things, we anticipate an 16 significant uptick in that area, so we have to be 17 ready for that.
18 And that can add in the relatively near 19 term up to 3 gigawatts additional capacity in a 20 situation where we need capacity relatively quickly to 21 meet our energy needs. For the first time in the U.S.
22 recommissioning a plant that started decommissioning 23 and not only one but potentially three. So in fact, 24 it's great that Jamie is here at the table.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
13 I understand we've also got a briefing to 1
the ACRS on what's going on in Palisades in 2
particular. Look forward to that. And we'll give you 3
a lot more details on that.
4 But when we saw the Palisades opportunity 5
come in front of us, we anticipate there may be others 6
to follow. So we did take steps to make sure we'd be 7
ready for the follow-on. And the number of mega data 8
centers and the tech companies that have announced 9
efforts to do things like the Crane Energy Center, 10 unprecedented purchase in 20 years of full production 11 capacity of that facility.
12 All of that's indicating that we're on 13 track or there's lots of interest for us adding 14 capacity that we need. So if you go to the next 15 slide. Actually, two slides. Got to keep up.
16 So I'll just highlight there's lots of 17 sections in the Act. The Act is pretty broad sweeping 18 in scope. And certain areas, there's very direct 19 specific guidance on things they want, direction they 20 want the agency to do. And some areas are more broad 21 sweeping.
22 And we'll touch on in detail -- a little 23 more detail on the things that we've already 24 accomplished. And we try to anticipate some of the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
14 more heavy hitting things that are coming down the 1
road in the near term that your members may be 2
interested in. But here are some of the -- kind of 3
the larger areas of the Act.
4 The first one deals with their updated 5
mission statement. This was a topic of discussion at 6
the RIC. At the ADVANCE Act public meeting, we talked 7
on this quite a bit, our ADVANCE Act Commission 8
meeting.
9 But the Commission did approve on an 10 updated mission statement. And so we're in the 11 process currently of developing implementing guidance.
12 And we'll go into that, a little bit more detail.
13 That's a very important piece of the 14 overall ADVANCE Act response because we think that's 15 one of the biggest pieces will help us to drive 16 sustained culture change, accelerating our efforts to 17 be more efficient and risk-informed performance-based 18 down the road. A lot of the Act is focused on us 19 becoming more efficient, timely, and predictable and 20 how we do our licensing activities, not just within 21 the reactor business lines but the other business 22 lines as well. So we'll tell you a little bit about 23 what we're doing there.
24 There's a section in the Act that deals 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
15 with what we call qualified new reactor license 1
applications. So in situations like, for example, the 2
AP1000s that we built at Vogtle, if another facility 3
was to come and request, hey, we'd like to take that 4
previously improved design and build it somewhere 5
else, we ought to be able to do that efficiently. And 6
so what the direction in the Act tells us to do is 7
develop a procedure such that you can do that in a 8
more expedited timeline, reflecting the fact that you 9
don't need to repeat a lot of items.
10 So that effort is underway. There was a 11 section of the Act that helped to reduce fees for new 12 reactor applicants. And our response to that, we 13 actually just issued the draft fee rule, and it's out 14 for public comment currently.
15 And that explains how we're going to have 16 that. And the net impact of that is for these new 17 reactor applicants or for applicants that come to us 18 with a plan that shows that they're on the ultimate 19 path to get a license, they effectively cut their 20 hourly fees in half that they would pay. So instead 21 of paying roughly 300 dollars an hour, it's, like, 150 22 dollars an hour. Those numbers, don't hold me to it.
23 It's close. So next slide, please.
24 The Act has us continue our efforts to 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
16 work on the regulatory framework for fusion technology 1
and for making use of brownfield sites or former 2
fossil fuel power plant sites. What can we do there 3
to make that process a little more streamlined? So 4
we've got ongoing efforts there.
5 We signed a -- relating to nuclear fuel, 6
there was a signing ceremony not that long ago where 7
we signed an agreement with Department of Energy on a 8
memorandum of understanding to improve our technical 9
coordination on that. I'll tell you a little bit more 10 about that later. And there's some direction in the 11 Act for us to relax some of the former ownership 12 control restrictions. And so we've initiated efforts 13 in that. Next slide, please.
14 Just a few more before we dive into some 15 of the details. There was some direction to reinforce 16 our ongoing support for international activities. In 17 fact, there was a section that dealt specifically with 18 how they may internally consider being structured 19 within the Office of International Programs.
20 Continuing our previous efforts on 21 microreactors, there's a lot of work going on in that.
22 We've held a number of public meetings in that area.
23 And of all the areas, this has a lot of police issues 24 in particular that would need to be worked out.
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17 In fact, we've got a large matrix of 1
things that we need to consider in terms of 2
microreactors. And I would imagine this is of 3
particular interest to the ACRS. One of the 4
additional flexibilities that was provided by the Act 5
was pay and hiring flexibilities. I'll talk to you in 6
a little more detail about that because we did deliver 7
that congressional report.
8 And it also provided us -- we're directed 9
to establish a nuclear energy traineeship program 10 which is a subset of our nuclear university program.
11 So those activities are ongoing as well. Next slide, 12 please. So just a little bit of a history lesson.
13 From about nine months or so, we started 14 this journey. Shortly after Mirela become the EDO, 15 she asked me to come up and be a special assistant for 16 the ADVANCE Act. And we recognized early on this is 17 an agencywide, whole of agency response.
18 So we established a core team of high 19 level executives from across the agency covering all 20 these areas. And you could see here we got 21 representatives from General Counsel, NMSS, Chief 22 Financial Officer, and a field office in Region 3 in 23 Atlanta -- or Region 3. So we meet weekly to discuss 24 the status of things and make sure that we're seeing 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
18 all perspectives as we're developing our 1
recommendations.
2 But as I mentioned, if you hit the next 3
button this -- oh, it didn't transition. We had a 4
magical transition showing Sabrina superimposed taking 5
my face on that slide. I apologize. That didn't work 6
out.
7 So yes, so Sabrina is stepping in to be 8
the lead there. We've discussed that. But more 9
importantly, behind the scenes, there is a lot of work 10 going on. It's a small group within the Office of the 11 Executive Director that are kind of project managing 12 across the organization.
13 And these are the folks that are behind 14 the scenes doing really the heavy lifting, and the 15 names that you're likely going to see if you interact 16 with the ADVANCE Act team at all. So couldn't thank 17 them enough for all the hard work they're doing behind 18 the scenes. And Jessica Hammock is the latest 19 addition to the team. Next slide, please.
20 So what we did early on was we took the 21 ADVANCE Act and we carved it up into bite sized chunks 22 and tasked those items out. And what you'll see there 23 is we had about -- currently, we've got a count of 24 about 36 different items that were discretely ticketed 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
19 to different offices throughout the agency. So far, 1
we've completed about nine of those actions on 2
schedule.
3 But those different actions are logically 4
grouped. So we have about 20 different project teams 5
that are accomplishing those actions. And as part of 6
the efforts, the Act is pretty explicit in different 7
places about who we need to interact with in terms of 8
DOE or other organizations for different sections of 9
the Act.
10 But we recognize the importance of keeping 11 the public and our own staff engaged into what's going 12 on here. So we've had so far over 30 public meetings.
13 And those meetings have resulted in a number of 14 improvements to the products we've produced so far.
15 Some of the suggestions that have come through have 16 directly resulted in changes or additions to the 17 report. So they've been valuable.
18 (Simultaneous speaking.)
19 VICE CHAIR HALNON: Are you getting 20 feedback from others besides NEI or from the public?
21 Are you getting feedback from them as well?
22 MR. KING: Yeah, and I think the nature of 23 the feedback sometimes we get from members of the 24 public is pretty focused on a particular area whereas, 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
20 for example, some of the input we've gotten from NEI 1
has been pretty broad sweeping, touching a lot of 2
different areas. And hopefully, what you'll see in 3
the reports that we generate, the congressional 4
reports, is we try to acknowledge the interactions 5
we've had with public, the areas with which they 6
provide input where we've benefitted from it. We've 7
talked a little bit about some of those improvements 8
at the ADVANCE Act Commission meeting as well, how 9
we've changed some areas of the report in response to 10 that. But the nongovernmental organizations have 11 probably been the most vocal. But we have had some 12 individual members of the public --
13 VICE CHAIR HALNON: One common thread we 14 seem to be getting quite a bit is transparency. And 15 the advent of the new reactors, the vintage or the 16 maturity where they're at, a lot of the stuff is 17 proprietary. We get a lot of comments about lack of 18 transparency. I was curious if they were bringing 19 that up as part of this ADVANCE Act. It's sort of a 20 potpourri of topics that you could bring.
21 MR. KING: Yeah, no, I haven't heard any 22 concerns raised about lack of transparency. I have 23 hears a thirst, and not just from members of the 24 public but across the board of us making sure we 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
21 provide an opportunity to engage at multiple points as 1
opposed to just collecting information once and going 2
away and coming back and here's the final answer. And 3
so we've tried to do that where we can arrange 4
multiple public meetings, even on the same topics.
5 But I haven't heard that.
6 VICE CHAIR HALNON: I've been to a lot of 7
public meetings.
8 MR. KING: Yeah. Next slide, please. So 9
I can offer this opportunity up to Sabrina. Like she 10 mentioned, she's the lead on this section of the Act.
11 MS. ATACK: Thanks, Mike. I have a 12 whopping one slide, so I'm really going to make it 13 count. All right. So this slide contains a mission 14 statement that was approved by the Commission.
15 As you can see, there's a lot in there.
16 And there are a lot of concepts that are relatively 17 new, right? Some of the same core concepts and ideas 18 that we've had in the previous mission statement are 19 carried through.
20 But then you have concepts like enabling 21 deployment that are novel for us as an agency. So the 22 guidance is intending to provide more specific 23 expectations to the staff of what does this mean to 24 you and how do we expect you to implement these 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
22 actions, your day-to-day work. So what we're doing in 1
the guidance, and we've had multiple touch points with 2
the staff.
3 We've been soliciting input from the staff 4
as we've developed sort of an outline of the guidance 5
and then continuing to iterate on it. And then we'll 6
have a town hall with the staff later this month to 7
give them a better perspective of what the guidance is 8
shaping up to look like and field any feedback from 9
them. In the realm of public engagement, we did have 10 a public meeting on the guidance on the margins of the 11 RIC and got some really helpful feedback as well 12 that's helped us to iterate on the guidance.
13 So it's been very helpful feedback from 14 both NEI and Breakthrough Institute and our staff as 15 well. So what we're doing in the guidance as we're 16 breaking the mission statement into four separate 17 elements. And we're going to describe each of those 18 elements so that we can really pay attention -- oh, 19 Dennis, did you want to hop in?
20 DR. BLEY: Yeah, I just wanted to ask a 21 question because the Act -- back in '74, they split 22 Atomic Energy Commission into two pieces to take 23 promotion out of the role of the AEC. This kind of 24 puts it back in. Is that right or am I misreading how 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
23 this comes across?
1 MS. ATACK: I think it's nuanced. And 2
that's part of the challenge in making sure the 3
guidance is very, very clear. So it doesn't give us 4
any promotional responsibilities if you will.
5 But what's intended with the enabling is 6
really to make sure that the way that we're operating 7
is efficient and doesn't create an unnecessary burden, 8
right, so that our licensing activities are efficient.
9 We're applying the right level of effort commensurate 10 with the safety or security significance of something.
11 Just because the technology is new, we don't say, all 12 right, we're going to need at least twice as much time 13 to look at this because we really need to think about 14 it harder or treat it with more scrutiny than 15 something of a commensurate importance or risk.
16 So that's the idea behind it. It's 17 definitely -- that's why especially in that enabling 18 the deployment, we need to be very clear with the 19 staff. This doesn't change our core mission, the 20 statutory responsibility we have.
21 And really the first thing in the guidance 22 is our primary principle is public health and safety 23 and security, common defense and security. So we're 24 not changing that. That's our north star, safety and 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
24 security. And we won't compromise on maintaining 1
that. Mike, was there anything you want to jump in 2
on?
3 MR. KING: Yeah, you may want to mention 4
the efforts we've got going on, on clarifying the line 5
between begin a consultant and -- because I think that 6
helps and that's part of what we're doing in the area 7
of clarifying. What do we mean by that?
8 MS. ATACK: Yeah, absolutely. So part of 9
-- as we break down the guidance in separate elements, 10 we'll have sort of these key words and phrases that 11 really will accentuate with the staff. And one of the 12 concepts embedded in that is really explaining that 13 there's a difference between consulting and guidance.
14 And I think you all are well aware that 15 the agency has really pounded in a culture that we 16 don't consult, right? That's not our job. We're not 17 consultants.
18 We're here to ensure safety and security.
19 But with that, we want to make sure that the staff 20 understand, well, where is that line, right? Because 21 we're generally very risk adverse in terms of, like, 22 not wanting to cross that boundary.
23 So there's an effort to develop some 24 guidance. And we'll have some of those concepts in 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
25 the mission statement implementation guidance as well 1
to describe what is that difference. Where does that 2
boundary lie?
3 And really the underpinning concept is 4
that we don't need to play bring me a rock to maintain 5
that delineation between consulting and guidance. We 6
can explain, here's what you need to do to have a 7
successful engagement with the agency. Here's what 8
you need to do to meet the regulations.
9 We don't need to be prescriptive about how 10 to accomplish that, right? That's where you get into 11 the line of consulting. So really trying to make it 12 clear to staff so they feel more comfortable with 13 having meaningful engagements with applicants and 14 licensees and not being worried that if they explain 15 a process, for example, that that would be viewed as 16 consulting.
17 DR. BLEY: Okay, thanks. That's a nicely 18 nuanced answered, and I hope you're able to keep that 19 clear.
20 MS. ATACK: Thank you. I appreciate that.
21 So --
22 MR. BROWN: This is -- oh, I'm sorry. I 23 didn't mean to interrupt you. This is Charlie Brown.
24 I wanted to springboard off of one of Dennis' comments 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
26 when you're finished.
1 MS. ATACK: Yeah. No, please go ahead.
2 MR. BROWN: Along the lines of promotion 3
and the safety aspect, when it was split out of the 4
AEC, from '59 to '79, the government didn't build all 5
those nuclear power plants. It was roughly the 6
commercial world. But there was -- I guess was it 7
Price-Anderson provided some liability background.
8 I'm not familiar with it in total.
9 But right
- now, there's
- nobody, no 10 government. Is there some way to get the industry to 11 combine? People want to build nuclear power plants 12 because need electricity.
13 And yet your all's primary responsibility 14 is safety and make sure you can deal with the 15 commercial industry in an efficient, safe manner and 16 not delay things. But whereas industry's stress to 17 come out with at least two water reactors are 18 available today, pressurized and BWRs. And a couple 19 of them have been approved. A couple of them have 20 been built.
21 So who is expected in your all's view to 22 do the cheerleading to get the industry to start 23 coming forth and building plants with a little bit of 24 liability help from the government but not expect the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
27 government to pour money in? Because the government 1
is not going to spend money building a bunch of power 2
plants. In over 20 years, we've built over 100 3
plants. So is anybody involved in that or do you all 4
know anything about that or just focusing on this one 5
area?
6 MR. KING: Yeah, so we definitely aren't 7
involved in any cheerleading aspects of things.
8 MR. BROWN: Exactly.
9 MR. KING: So our focus is solely on 10 making sure we adhere to our principles of good 11 regulation. And if we do that or when we do that 12 successfully, we think that meets the enabling intent 13 of the mission. Because if we're operating 14 efficiently, if we're reliable, we're clear, and we're 15 operating that way, then licensees or potential 16 applicants are going to see the NRC as a credible 17 regulator that if they provide us a high quality 18 design, high quality application, that they have some 19 level of confidence that they're going to get through 20 and be treated fairly. But ultimately, it does rely 21 on the quality of them coming in with a design that is 22 safe and engaging us at appropriate points. But yeah, 23 so you probably -- you're asking the wrong folks that 24 question, I think.
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28 MR. BROWN: I understand you all can't do 1
that. A hundred plants in 20 years, if we hadn't 2
stopped in '79, we could have 300 today at that rate.
3 And everything came to a stop obviously.
4 But it's interesting that it doesn't seem 5
to be between NEI, EPRI, all the other general 6
commercial world doesn't seem to be coalescing 7
together to say, hey, look, I've got a whole bunch of 8
nuclear operators. Why can't we build more plants?
9 And then propose and get together in some way and get 10 that. But you don't see any of that.
11 All you're doing is positioning yourself 12 to do the right thing in terms of the regulation which 13 I understand. So I was just curious whether you had 14 seen any other movement outside of your old 15 organization that is trying to develop a game plan for 16 getting back to building nuclear power plants. It's 17 nice you talk about brownfields and to hear the 18 government official talking about it in the 19 administration. But there doesn't seem to be an 20 coalescence. And I was just wondering if you heard 21 anything because you're the only person we know to 22 talk to.
23 MR. KING: I will offer up, though, in the 24 role of the ADVANCE Act lead, I have had the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
29 opportunity to present on the ADVANCE Act at a number 1
of industry and stakeholder sessions, including state 2
public service commission meetings and one recently.
3 In fact, the last two that I attended, in fact, the 4
National Academy of Sciences Pathways for New Nuclear 5
conference, that point you just raised about is there 6
a way for industry to come together to kind of spread 7
the risk out, so to speak? And that was a topic of 8
discussion at one or multiple panels. So I know it's 9
being discussed. But that's about the extent of it.
10 MEMBER PETTI: Charlie, there's minutes 11 for that workshop. I participated as well as the, I 12 guess, director of the study committee, whatever they 13 called it.
14 MR. BROWN: Oh, okay.
15 MEMBER PETTI: Once the minutes are 16 available, I will distribute them. I've seen a draft 17 but not official yet.
18 MR. BROWN: Okay. That'd be great. Well, 19 thank you. I appreciate your discussion on the 20 subject. It's from a guy who participated in a 21 program that built -- when I retired, there were 140 22 nuclear power plants boogying around in submarines and 23 aircraft carriers.
24 And you can do it, but you need to -- it 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
30 needs to be focused. And that's not your job. So 1
that's for feeding me back. I'd like to see the 2
minutes once they become available just for interest.
3 So thanks a lot for the response.
4 MS. ATACK: Yeah, and I would add that I 5
think the Department of Energy does have a number of 6
initiatives underway to try to clear some of the 7
barriers to deployment.
And then even 8
internationally, there's a lot of effort between the 9
Department of State, Department of Energy to go out to 10 other countries and help with development of 11 regulatory programs and advertising technologies and 12 trying to boost the deployment if you will. We go and 13 wave the flag for strong, independent, technical 14 competent regulators as part of that program.
15 And that's is a little bit of broader 16 context. But yeah, not so much in the domestic realm.
17 Do we have a cheerleading club? I think the 18 competitive nature of the industry right now is 19 holding them back from being collaborative that would 20 entail.
21 All right. If there are no further 22 questions, I'll plug along and just give a little bit 23 more information about the guidance before I end my 24 slide here. So we've got the narrative sections where 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
31 we break the mission statement down into four separate 1
elements and explain what they mean. Within that 2
realm of the guidance, we're also providing some 3
success stories.
4 So it's clear to the staff what does good 5
look like in these realms and what does good look like 6
in these behaviors. What are the outcomes you would 7
expect to see? And then there will be a series of 8
appendices associated with the guidance where we break 9
down by functional area.
10 For example, there's an appendix that 11 applies to all employees. And then you'll have 12 licensing, oversight, mission support, communication, 13 external engagement, those sort of functional areas.
14 And then we'll provide one page of bullets that 15 describe behaviors that are consistent with the 16 mission statement, though the staff can use that as a 17 reference to really do a routine calibration of what 18 does implementing this mission statement look like.
19 How do I bring it in to my day-to-day implementation 20 of my work activities?
21 I think that's the end of my summary.
22 I'll just note that we are in the final stages. We 23 have a draft of the mission statement implementation 24 guidance that's been developed. We have a SECY paper 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
32 with the list of implementation guidance due to the 1
Commission in early May and then a report to Congress 2
due in early July.
3 So we've been keeping a pretty solid pace 4
on developing this and then iterating with the staff 5
to ask for feedback. We asked for feedback with our 6
initial outline. We've asked for feedback for success 7
stories. And then we'll provide an update to the 8
staff and ask them for more feedback, one last round 9
of feedback opportunity if you will before we provide 10 the product to the Commission. I'll hand it back to 11 Mike.
12 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Before you go back to 13 Mike, I would just observe that when you collect your 14 success stories, there's a success story here in the 15 agency and this committee was involved in it with a 16 foreign entity, Korea Hydro and Nuclear Power. Ron 17 Ballinger led the review team for us on that. And 18 getting your gold stamp of approval, then went out and 19 sold that system to, I think, Unite Arab Emirates.
20 So it's not a story, perhaps, that the 21 domestic legacy vendors want to hear. But just it's 22 an example that when they got that, that was a major 23 factor in their successful sale of that technology.
24 And it was U.S. technology. It was the CE80 system.
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33 MEMBER BALLINGER: And they came in on 1
schedule and under budget.
2 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Yeah. So just maybe put 3
that in your -- it's probably not one you want to lead 4
with because it's a foreign sale. But it certainly 5
was something where the NRC had a major impact on 6
deployment, enabling deployment of safe nuclear 7
energy.
8 MS. ATACK: That's a great point, and we 9
do see that internationally as well that a lot of the 10 countries we're talking to, we'll want to make sure 11 has the NRC seen this technology, right? That gold 12 standard regulator, have they reviewed it? Have they 13 approved it?
14 And has it been built somewhere? That's 15 really -- especially for newcomers to nuclear, they're 16 really looking to meet those criteria. You have the 17 credible regulator looked at this.
18 And then has somebody successfully built 19 and operated it? So that's why you see Poland, the 20 AP1000s being deployed there. And then the BWRX-300, 21 right, interest is increasing in those.
22 MEMBER BALLINGER: As an added comment, 23 that Korea plant is a System 80+. So what goes 24 around, comes around, I guess.
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34 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Yeah.
1 MS. ATACK: Thank you.
2 MR. KING: Great. So if you go to the 3
next slide. I'm going to kind of give you some 4
highlights of a few of our first congressional reports 5
that we issued. The first one I'll mention is Section 6
401 of the ADVANCE Act which dealt with the advanced 7
manufacturing -- advanced methods of construction and 8
manufacturing.
9 And this is one, Greg, where we did get 10 some public feedback that was useful. In particular, 11 there was an interest in us doing what we can to go 12 beyond our traditional reliance on nuclear code 13 standards and look for alternatives. And there was a 14 lot of focus on alternative manufacturing for large 15 components in particular. There's use of new 16 materials that'd be suited for a high temperature 17 environment for advanced reactor use such as new Class 18 A advanced austenitic stainless steel alloys.
19 And based on that, the NRC identified 20 development of some additional guidance that we 21 thought would be useful for emerging technologies.
22 And for each of the reports that we've issued, you'll 23 notice at the end of the congressional reports, we're 24 trying to have a standard kind of format for an 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
35 enclosure where we highlight things that we recently 1
completed that we think are consistent with this 2
section of the Act, things that are ongoing, and 3
future things that we might want to potentially 4
consider. And so for this section of the Act, we did 5
identify some things that we want to look at.
6 VICE CHAIR HALNON: That brings up a 7
question then. Are you projecting impact and then 8
measuring that impact as you go forward to ensure that 9
what you expected and what you're getting?
10 MR. KING: Yes. And in fact, we're going 11 through this process right now of we task each of the 12 offices who are leads for these reports to take each 13 of the items we specifically identified in the tables, 14 come up with how are we going to measure whether or 15 not we'll have the intended outcome if we're pursuing 16 those items.
17 VICE CHAIR HALNON: That's the danger of 18 clogging up the process too. We've seen that happen 19 where we thought we were making great improvements 20 too. And it just seemed to take longer which is not 21 obviously what we want.
22 MR. KING: Yeah, in a particular -- some 23 of these early reports, six months from when the Act 24 was signed --
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36 VICE CHAIR HALNON: It's hard to see an 1
impact.
2 MR. KING: You never know. And so it is 3
important. It's even more important for us to put 4
measures in place, for us to check and adjust. These 5
are --
6 VICE CHAIR HALNON: These are public 7
measures?
8 MR. KING: Yes. No, we're going through 9
the process of determining which metrics would be 10 appropriate to be publicly available.
11 VICE CHAIR HALNON: Yeah, they've got to 12 be understandable and --
13 MR. KING: Right.
14 VICE CHAIR HALNON: -- clear.
15 MR. KING: But that is the intent is for 16
-- and not only for these individual reports. But one 17 of the things we're doing is looking more broadly of, 18 hey, what can we do from a broader perspective? Like, 19 for example -- and I neglected to mention this in 20 earlier comments.
21 But the Act gives us things specifically 22 to do. But we also said, what can we do in the spirit 23 of the Act? And so the EDO launched these 24 initiatives, we call strategic direction initiatives.
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37 And they're kind of cross cutting things.
1 And so we've launched a number of initiatives in that 2
area. One of them is for us to put in place some 3
publicly available, broad sweeping, challenging 4
metrics.
5 If we have an expectation which we do to 6
resolve better and more timely resolving low level 7
safety issues, we got an expectation for the amount of 8
time it should take us to do that. Let's establish 9
that expectation. Let's develop a metric and hold 10 ourselves accountable to it and show how we're 11 performing in that area.
12 And we've got an expectation that we are 13 more accurate in the amount of time it takes us to 14 accomplish a licensing -- a type of licensing action 15 and that we're on budget and on schedule in accordance 16 with what we estimated in our acceptance review.
17 Let's establish a metric for that and let's hold 18 ourselves accountable to that in a public way. That's 19 just a few examples of things -- some things that 20 we're doing that the Act didn't direct us to do it.
21 But it's things we think makes sense and are 22 consistent with the spirit of the Act.
23 (Simultaneous speaking.)
24 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Could I interrupt now?
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38 MR. KING: Yes.
1 CHAIR KIRCHNER: You'll find we're an 2
interruptive committee.
3 MR. KING: Good. It's more dynamic.
4 CHAIR KIRCHNER: And you glossed over 5
something that we make part of the chair of any of our 6
meetings opening statement. And that is that all 7
member comments should be regarded only as those with 8
the individual -- as the individual opinion of that 9
member and not a committee position. You'll find we 10 have lot of opinions, so I'm going to give you one.
11 That first one up there, I think the 12 committee -- I'll speak for myself -- would really 13 strongly endorse your more active participation in 14 codes and standards development. Don't cut costs 15 there. It's a benefit to the agency to be in sync 16 with what's going on, whether it's ASME or IEEE. 17 Have input to what they're doing and then 18 get the knowledge that comes with participating in 19 that. And to the extent that you can help those by 20 your participation, prioritize to the extent you can.
21 These are NGOs and professional societies. But the 22 code cases as appropriate that support things like 23 advanced reactors and higher temperatures. That's a 24 win-win for the agency as well as the industry, so one 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
39 member's opinion.
1 MEMBER BALLINGER: You can make a big bang 2
for your buck if you get a lot of commercial 3
dedication and place some of the more stringent --
4 well, on paper, stringent codes and standards.
5 MR. KING: Yeah, so -- yeah, and I think 6
those types of discussions were definitely part of the 7
engagement in our public meetings. And the focus was 8
-- and if you look at the report, it's more about what 9
can we do to accelerate our endorsement of codes that 10 we think would be applicable and less about how do we 11 save resources by not participating in code type 12 interactions.
13 CHAIR KIRCHNER: No, I didn't mean it in 14 that spirit. But your participation will help you 15 expedite endorsement because you'll be part of the 16 creators of those codes and standards.
17 MR. KING: Great. Yeah, and so I think 18 I've touched on this last point of really it's about 19 focusing on what can we do to accelerate our efforts 20 to endorse codes and even commercial construction 21 codes for areas that are of low risk and figuring it 22 out where it makes sense to do that sort of thing. So 23 next slide.
24 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Before you go on --
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40 MR. KING: Yes.
1 CHAIR KIRCHNER: I interrupted you again.
2 Your research arm provides a valuable service to the 3
agency. And so often when we hear about efficiency, 4
sometimes it's code for cutting costs.
5 But your investment in research and we 6
have a triannual report on the research programs will 7
pay off in a number of those previous slide's bullets, 8
the second two bullets on the previous slide. If 9
you're going to deal with emergent technology, you 10 have to have an informed staff to deal with them and 11 the endorsement process. If they're informed they can 12 be an active and more agile regulator. And we've seen 13 some promising results out of the future -- what's the 14 15 MEMBER PETTI: Future-Focused Research.
16 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Future-Focused Research 17 and addressing emerging technologies. Great. So just 18 a pitch on behalf of RES. Helping you meet that goal.
19 MR. KING: Great. Okay. So the next 20 report I wanted to highlight is the report we did on 21 ways we can be more efficient with our environmental 22 reviews. And I'll just highlight a couple things in 23 particular. We did take a comprehensive look, even 24 though we had recently sent a paper to the Commission 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
41 with some options in this area.
1 We did take another fresh, holistic look 2
at the program to identify actions we could do to be 3
more efficient. And we've decided to implement a 4
5,500-hour resource model which is roughly a 30 5
percent reduction from previous estimates for 6
operating reactor license renewal environmental 7
reviews. And we're measuring the current applications 8
against this new model to inform future adjustments 9
that we make.
10 We're also working on a new reactor 11 generic environmental impact statement rulemaking.
12 And if this is finalized, we expect it could save us 13 up to 40 percent of staff efforts per application, 14 roughly 6,000 hours0 days <br />0 hours <br />0 weeks <br />0 months <br />. We also see significant benefit 15 in situations where we are establishing memorandums of 16 understanding with cooperating agencies for 17 environmental reviews.
18 And we've got a number of these reviews.
19 We think it provides -- or a number of these in place.
20 We think it provides clarity on roles and 21 responsibilities and schedule for deliverables for 22 environmental reviews.
23 And we've got some in place with 24 Department of Air Force on the Eielson Air Force Base 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
42 project, DOE on projects for the Palisades restart, 1
and a trio of reactor projects. In the agreement with 2
the Department of Air Force, they're the lead for 3
consultation, the Section 106 for the National 4
Historic Preservation Act. And we anticipate that'll 5
save roughly half of the NRC staff's effort in the 6
consultation process. So it's not an insignificant 7
efficiency gained in that area.
8 MEMBER PETTI: So Mike, the 5,500 hours0.00579 days <br />0.139 hours <br />8.267196e-4 weeks <br />1.9025e-4 months <br />, 9
that's only the environmental piece, not what we see 10 a lot of, the licensing piece. Are you guys giving 11 any thought to a resource estimate for the licensing 12 pieces, CP, an OL, a COLA, some sort of metric or 13 benchmark to measure this health against?
14 MR. KING: Yeah, outside of just the 15 license renewal piece, yeah. We do have goals in that 16 area. I don't have the -- we don't have the 17 environmental expert in the room to give you the 18 details on that one. We could follow up.
19 MEMBER PETTI: No, just I mean, the idea 20 of having some good metrics if they can be 21 implemented.
22 MEMBER BALLINGER: Along those lines, 23 again, this one person's opinion, a 35 or 25 percent 24 reduction in the time for environmental reviews or for 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
43 renewals, why? Why just 25 percent? If they have an 1
environmental review for the plant and it's up to 2
date, I guess, okay, I'm just curious as to why just 3
25 percent?
4 MR. KING: Yeah, so --
5 MEMBER BALLINGER:
Not being an 6
environmental person.
7 MR. KING: Right, right. So that's my --
8 and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night either.
9 But that's part of the discussions I know the teams 10 are having. But my understanding of environmental 11 requirements are a little bit different than they are 12 in terms of safety requirements.
13 Since the last environmental review if the 14 requirements have evolved over time when it's time to 15 do the next review, you have to look at -- see what 16 has changed and measure it against that. But I know 17 I'm doing it a disservice. So if you want to go into 18 a deep dive and why that's the case.
19 MEMBER BALLINGER: No, just it strikes me 20 as if you have it in place, up-to-date environmental 21 review. I'm guessing that the intervener, if you want 22 to call it that way, delays related to plants are more 23 environmental -- on the environmental side than they 24 are on anything else. I could be wrong. Am I wrong?
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44 CHAIR KIRCHNER: No, we can go offline and 1
take it up in detail. But NEPA has fixed timelines --
2 MEMBER BALLINGER: Yeah.
3 CHAIR KIRCHNER: -- too. And time is 4
money. So there's some compression that you can 5
obtain in an environmental -- going through the NEPA 6
process.
7 MEMBER BALLINGER: I got you.
8 CHAIR KIRCHNER: But you've got fixed 9
timelines to work against too. And those may 10 sometimes be the long pole in the tent for the 11 applicant.
12 MR. KING: And we're definitely meeting 13 the NEPA requirements in this area. If you look at 14 the paper, we explicitly say that.
15 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Dennis Bley has a 16 question or a comment. Dennis?
17 DR. BLEY: Yeah, I mean, we aren't 18 involved in the environmental reviews. But it kind of 19 sounded like NRC is saving staff time. But it's been 20 moved over to another agency. So overall, are we 21 saving? I'm a little -- I might've missed something 22 in the way you presented it, Mike.
23 MR. KING: Yeah, I think that's NRC staff 24 effort time. So I don't know what the net impact 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
45 overall is on the applicant itself. So I have to get 1
back with you on that.
2 DR. BLEY: Okay. Yeah, I think you said 3
one shifted over to the Air Force or another defense 4
department agency to do it. So that doesn't sound 5
like a net savings anywhere.
6 MR. KING: Yeah. Well, I know the goal is 7
overall net savings. But I don't know the -- whether 8
or not this 50 percent is overall big picture of what 9
does that look like. This is 50 percent of NRC staff 10 effort.
11 DR. BLEY: Okay, thanks.
12 MEMBER PETTI: Mike, I mean, in addition 13 to this ADVANCE Act coming down, are there any efforts 14 to empower the staff to come up with ideas on how to 15 streamline and be more efficient? If there's anybody 16 that ought to know, it ought to be the staff. I've 17 always felt that these top-down things are good.
18 But it's where the rubber meets the road, 19 it's hard to see -- sometimes it's hard to see down in 20 agencies -- into agencies. I don't know here where 21 the eyes can see effective down into the agency. But 22 if you can get -- if you can incentivize even 23 financially people that come up with ideas to improve 24 efficiency, that can be very powerful.
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46 MR. KING: Yeah. Do you want to -- I can 1
see you're jumping at the bit to say something.
2 MS. PELTON: Sure. Well, and you're 3
right. A lot of the great ideas we're getting on 4
staff. And in a few minutes, I'll talk about ADVANCE 5
Act 505 and highlight a few initiatives. We have a 6
number of initiatives that are being undertaken that 7
drive towards efficiency, timeliness, and 8
predictability that are staff-driven efforts that 9
build into that framework. So that's definitely 10 happening.
11 MR. MCKENNA: And I will also do the same 12 thing.
13 DR. BLEY: This is Dennis one last time.
14 I think Dave or somebody mentioned construction 15 permits in here somewhere. That's an area where it's 16 kind of unclear what you need to do for a construction 17 permit.
18 Every application that comes through seems 19 to work that out on its own. If we could systematize 20 that a little better, that might be a good place for 21 you to look. I don't know if you're already looking 22 there.
23 MEMBER PALMTAG: This is Scott Palmtag.
24 My comment is not really related directly to 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
47 environmental but just in reviews in general. And 1
this is off Dave's comment.
2 But I come from industry. In industry, we 3
have -- there's programs like Lean Six Sigma or Lean 4
methodology or Toyota-based manufacturing and just in 5
time. But it's not just a manufacturing process.
6 It can really help. I've seen this 7
tremendous speed up on reviews in the industry. And 8
I'm relatively new to the committee, and I don't see 9
that sort of tools available to the staff.
10 But that's something you may want to look 11 at as -- it's one thing to say, do this faster. But 12 you actually have to bring tools in. And a Lean 13 program can bring tremendous speed up. So just a 14 suggestion.
15 MR. KING: Thank you very much. And 16 there's so much going on, it's hard to share with you 17 in this time frame what all is going on. But one of 18 the strategic direction initiatives is kind of what 19 you're talking about, enabling the -- in particular, 20 there's a big focus on project management skills and 21 tools, right?
22 Helping leverage the latest technology, 23 best practices. And how do you manage projects from 24 cradle to grave? How do you identify areas which are 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
48 underperforming, ways you could streamline processes, 1
steps you could take out of the process?
2 And that's a big part of Lean Six Sigma, 3
optimizing what are the hand-offs, who's doing what, 4
how do you track all of it. And I'll just share with 5
you to your point about are we leveraging the creative 6
skills of the staff, empowering them to just move out 7
on things. One of the first things I did as ADVANCE 8
Act lead was meet with all of the offices at all-hands 9
meetings and introduce this topic.
10 And that's the first focus was, hey, don't 11 wait for direction. Nobody knows your job better than 12 you. Please anything that frustrates you, anywhere 13 you know you don't spend time on something that 14 matters or you think you're spending too much on 15 something that doesn't matter, please raise it up.
16 Propose a solution.
17 If there was ever a time to make a change, 18 a bold change, this is it, right? And so that has 19 been a key message. And I think what you'll hear one 20 of the biggest, boldest ideas in terms of potential 21 changes to the reactor oversight process was a staff 22 initiated effort proposal.
23 And Phil is going to talk to you a little 24 bit about that one. And we have seen a lot of 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
49 engagement from the staff. I think the slide I showed 1
earlier, there were over 200 ideas that have come in 2
so far.
3 And we maintain kind of a list of things 4
that we're looking at, temporary shed activities to 5
make room for us to do other stuff. So I mean, there 6
is a lot going on behind the scenes. And staff, my 7
experience, they've used this as opportunity to 8
propose all the things that frustrate them.
9 They've really used this as an opportunity 10 to kind of highlight that and what can we do to stop 11 spending administrative time on things. And let's 12 focus on the technical things and things that matter.
13 So good questions. Thank you very much. Next slide.
14 So I mentioned earlier we signed a 15 memorandum of understanding with Department of Energy 16 to coordinate on fuels. And this will provide an 17 opportunity for us to increase the level of technical 18 chairing between our organizations. So we'll have 19 access -- better access to do these experimental data 20 and codes to hopefully give us some efficiency gains 21 in our use for the licensing process to advanced 22 nuclear fuels.
23 I mentioned also that a section in the Act 24 gave us some initial hiring and pay flexibilities.
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50 And so we did issue the report back in December to 1
Congress. And we think this is going to be a very 2
important tool because it gives us direct hire 3
authority for areas where we think we're going to need 4
really specialized skill sets so we can just do 5
noncompetitive hirings in areas that we feel like we 6
really need to.
7 Or if we got a demonstrated area where we 8
-- despite multiple efforts, we just been unsuccessful 9
bringing in the skills we need. We can use this tool.
10 It's an opportunity for that. It also provides us 11 increased pay above current limits for those 12 qualifying positions when and if we need it to retain 13 or attract.
14 It gives us the ability to do hiring 15 bonuses for those particular skills. And the -- yeah, 16 so the big opportunity there is the ability to -- in 17 addition to the hiring bonuses, we have the increased 18 flexibility to give performance awards, up to 25,000 19 dollars. And this is an opportunity for us to 20 incentivize the folks who are looking for ways to do 21 business in a smarter, more efficient way because 22 we'll be able to apply these bonuses or performance 23 awards to those individuals through their performance 24 system. So --
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51 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Mike, could you elaborate 1
on the fuels MOU? I mean, traditionally, the two 2
agencies have always cooperated in this area. What's 3
new? What's different? What's going to change as a 4
result of this MOU?
5 MR. KING: So my understanding is it just 6
clarified and expanded the range of sharing of 7
experimental data with DOE and particularly access to 8
their codes and any data that may come out from their 9
testing of fuels. So this is an area where there are 10 more details than that.
11 (Simultaneous speaking.)
12 CHAIR KIRCHNER: The funding comes from 13 the same taxpayer for both agencies. So I presume 14 this is just -- okay, it's focused in RES and NRR 15 probably and NMSS. Okay.
16 MR. KING: And this is an evolution of 17 previous agreements that we've had. So to the extent 18 we identify areas in the future where we feel 19 constrained by the MOU, then we will not be hesitant 20 to make revisions to it if we feel like that would be 21 beneficial to us.
22 VICE CHAIR HALNON: Have you been able to 23 use the ADVANCE Act hiring and pay authorities to 24 override some of the executive orders and other 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
52 executive actions, the freeze hiring and probation 1
employees, stuff like that?
2 MR. KING: So we haven't executed on it 3
yet. But we've laid the groundwork. We've got 4
internal procedures in place. But it's fairly new, so 5
we haven't had the opportunity to execute on it yet.
6 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Do you have an agencywide 7
plan that looks at your staff? And I'm thinking 8
mainly the technical staff that identifies the skills 9
you need. And how do you implement that, or is it 10 just different organizations go out on their own and 11 find individuals? Is there some strategic view of 12 candidly replenishing the brain drain that the agency 13 has suffered over the last years?
14 MR. KING: Yeah, and we have a tool called 15 the strategic workforce planning tool where we 16 forecast our current skills and expertise of the staff 17 against the anticipated needs, both, like, within the 18 next year or the next few years, look for those gaps.
19 And we're in the process right now of streamlining 20 that tool, updating it to make it a little more 21 effective, to be more closely tied to our hiring 22 systems and our budgeting systems so that we can have 23 a more integrated and useful outcome from our efforts 24 to work on strategic workforce planning. But that --
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53 we agree with you.
1 That is an area which is increasingly --
2 particularly in an environment where we're seeing lots 3
of interest in stakeholders, with varying 4
technologies, dynamic workforce folks. We recently 5
lost a fair number of experienced folks who were 6
focused on knowledge management, knowledge transfer.
7 So having a current survey of what are your expertise 8
and what areas compared to where you think you need 9
those areas based on your current look of what's 10 coming down the road is very important. So we're 11 focused on that right now.
12 MEMBER BALLINGER: Isn't it kind of a 13 two-path process, kind of short-term and long-term?
14 In the industry, a lot of these plants will literally 15 fund students -- their entire education expense as 16 long as they come and work for them. So that's the 17 young people.
18 And then there's the stuff you've been 19 talking about. And the agency has a number of 20 programs in places, internship programs, those kinds 21 of things. Is there a thought to enhancing some of 22 that stuff? Because that's your long-term pipeline.
23 Actually, it's a long-term pipeline for the industry, 24 even if they don't come to work for you.
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54 MR. KING: Yeah, in fact, the Act directs 1
us to shift to an annual solicitation of our NRAN 2
program, Nuclear Regulatory Apprenticeship Network 3
program. So that's one thing in particular that's 4
directed by the Act. But the apprenticeship program 5
that I mentioned earlier as an extension of our 6
university leadership program was also directed by the 7
Act. So having a healthy look at folks coming 8
straight out of college as well as folks that are new 9
to career that are coming in, having a healthy 10 balance.
11 MEMBER BALLINGER: Is there a way to --
12 are you expanding it?
13 MR. KING: Well, yes, we are in process of 14 handing the annual NRAN program -- or expanded it to 15 be annual instead of biennial before. And the 16 university leadership program, expanding that to 17 include the apprenticeship program as well. Now that 18 program doesn't commit them necessarily to come work 19 at the NRC.
20 It's more broader than that. It helps 21 industry -- all nuclear industry as a whole. But the 22 NRAN program in particular, that's our steady stream 23 of entry level folks to be able to meet our needs.
24 So that in combination with these new 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
55 direct hire authorities which will allow us to be more 1
competitive at selecting particular skill sets that we 2
need. It helps us be in a better position. Okay.
3 Next slide. So I mentioned that we're also looking 4
for actions that we can take wherever possible to do 5
things consistent with the Act and not necessarily 6
waiting until the report is due for us to move out on.
7 So some of the things we did early on, we 8
recognized an opportunity to share you what we've 9
experienced in the past is sometimes in response to 10 inspections that go on in the regions, the regions ask 11 for help from headquarters. And what we found is 12 sometimes we're a little slow to recognize where we 13 spend a lot of time on issues at headquarters. And so 14 we decided to take action right away to provide some 15 clear expectations for the amount of time we should 16 spend on an issue before we ask ourselves the very low 17 safety significance issue resolution questions of, is 18 this a low level issue? If it is, does it make sense 19 for us to continue to expending effort on it?
20 So we ran a little more discipline into 21 our process there. We went ahead and implemented that 22 guidance right away rather than waiting for a report 23 to be issued. We also issued a memo on expectations, 24 and this was on how it could be more efficient, 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
56 licensing.
1 And this was in response to a couple of 2
meetings that we had in advance before the events had 3
came out of pre-applications. How do we make the most 4
of those engagements? And so we issued a memo 5
clarifying expectations on issuing your safety 6
evaluation report, gaps identified in it before we go 7
asking any questions for licensees for follow-up.
8 That's a best practice. It's been in 9
place for years. But we wanted to reinforce that 10 expectation. We're following that memo up with some 11 metrics to hold ourselves accountable to actually 12 measure are we doing what we're expecting to be done.
13 And I mentioned earlier the things we're doing to 14 measure ourselves in a more public way in response to 15 Greg, the discussion we had.
16 VICE CHAIR HALNON: So Mike, I want to 17 expose myself here. Do we have access to these memos 18 that you're writing?
19 MR. KING: Yes, I just put down the links.
20 VICE CHAIR HALNON: Okay, so I'm not a 21 fast clicker. So the only other comment -- and you 22 probably get back to the water cooler saying I 23 expected that comment from him. When I look at the 24 ROP from this, it looks like things we've been talking 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
57 about since 2012, and now we're just now getting an 1
excuse that we can go do them because we have the 2
ADVANCE Act pushing us.
3 Over the years, a lot of the things have 4
been kept arm's length, some not. I'm not saying 5
there hasn't been many improvements. But my overall 6
impression was that we weren't very bold in really 7
taking credit for the 50- to 60-year operating of 8
these plants and how safe they've been, how they've 9
improved, the number of low level findings below that 10 we're getting at, relatively steady but still not 11 serious.
12 The improvements made in the resident 13 inspector programs and quality of the people you have 14 full time at the site, it just seems like we could've 15 taken a really bold move and said, okay, design basis 16 stuff, we've look at that for 40 years. We don't need 17 to continue to look at that. We went through license 18 renewal. We looked at it all again. Why do we have 19 to keep regurgitating minor low significant safety 20 compliance issues?
21 Why are we even finding those, because a 22 difference of opinion, difference of level of detail 23 and documentation from the '70s to now? You can 24 regurgitate all that, those reasons. Are you talking 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
58 about maybe even a more progressive move in the 1
reactor oversight process from the existing lightwater 2
fleet?
3 MR. MCKENNA: Two slides from now. I can 4
talk about it now.
5 VICE CHAIR HALNON: So you did anticipate 6
that question.
7 MR. MCKENNA: It's coming up. As soon at 8
Jamie does he slide, I'll be into my slide.
9 (Simultaneous speaking.)
10 MR. KING: And I don't know if you got the 11 chance to watch the ADVANCE Act Commission meeting.
12 But Jeremy Groom presented on this topic. And he had 13 a chart on there that was very insightful. To your 14 point about over the years, it showed what has changed 15 in terms of level of oversight total hours to conduct 16 the baseline inspections over time compared to some 17 charts, proxies to industry performance over time. So 18 it's a valid point. That's part of the information 19 we're using to inform the improvements we're making.
20 VICE CHAIR HALNON: My data point was just 21 early public meeting had some details of the ROP. So 22 I'll give it to you that I'm not current as I should 23 be.
24 MR. MCKENNA: So I can speak to that early 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
59 data point. So we -- that first initial meeting we 1
had, we changed the plans since then. And I'll speak 2
to it at the slide.
3 MR. KING: Are you going to talk about the 4
metric for resolve on low level safety issues?
5 MR. MCKENNA: You can mention it.
6 MR. KING: So in addition to all the stuff 7
he's going to talk about, I think -- one of the things 8
that I think for us as an agency that is rather bold 9
is being very clear what our expectation is for how 10 long we should spend resolving low level issues, 11 right? Many of us have experienced times where it's 12 taken us too long, perhaps even over a year or 13 multiple years to resolve issues that at best would've 14 been green findings. So what we're putting in place 15
-- and we're not waiting to do it for the report, 16 we're launching this effort now -- is a metric that 17 says when you leave the site, you're done with 18 inspection, you've got so many days with which you 19 need to have the low level safety issues resolved.
20 Otherwise, we're going to have escalated engagements 21 on should we enter the VLSSIR process to make a 22 deliberate decision on how much more resources we need 23 to make on issue if we agree it's a low level issue 24 that doesn't warrant that amount of resources.
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60 VICE CHAIR HALNON: So let me give you --
1 this is a Greg talking point. Once you determine it's 2
a low level issue, why is it the time frame is zero?
3 Once you're in line that is the low level safety 4
issue, it should be zero. Move on to the next thing.
5 MR. KING: Well, I think we may disagree 6
on that somewhat. If you're right at the edge, you 7
need an hour or two more to finish.
8 VICE CHAIR HALNON: We agree it was a low 9
level safety issue. Okay.
10 MR. KING: Yeah.
11 VICE CHAIR HALNON: That's what you expect 12 to hear from me.
13 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Individual opinions.
14 MR. KING: I know Greg well.
15 (Laughter.)
16 MR. KING: All right. So next, I'll pass 17 it over to Jamie who's going to talk to you a little 18 bit about Section 505 which is some of the things 19 we're looking at in the area of licensing 20 efficiencies. And this is an area where we did make 21 a decision deliberately to expand beyond what was 22 directed in the Act. And she can tell you a little 23 bit more about that.
24 MS. PELTON: Okay. So Section 505 of the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
61 ADVANCE Act calls for the director of NRR to establish 1
techniques and guidance for the efficient, 2
predictable, and timely review of licensing actions 3
for nuclear reactors. As Mike just said, we did 4
expand that. We're applying the principles that we're 5
apply for NRR across business lines.
6 So we are working closely in partnership 7
with NMSS to ensure that what we are learning, the 8
ideas that we are hearing, the activities that we're 9
undertaking that we're sharing best practices across 10 the business lines to make sure that as an agency we 11 are going in the same direction for efficient, timely, 12 and predictable licensing. So at a high level in all 13 of the efforts that we're undertaking, and Sabrina 14 said safety, security, those are still our north star.
15 But efficient licensing is now built into our mission 16 statement.
17 So the work that we're doing as part of 18 505 is very well aligned with the new mission. So 19 between the two offices, we've established a reactor 20 licensing efficiencies and processes team and a 21 partner materials licensing and efficiencies and 22 processes team. These teams are evaluating our 23 licensing processes to see where we can gain 24 efficiencies, where we can focus in on the areas that 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
62 we can enhance our processes to give us more clarity 1
and communication with the industry, drive more 2
efficient licensing reviews, and move licensing 3
forward in the most efficient way possible.
4 Mike had mentioned the pre-application 5
engagement and safety evaluation with gaps efforts.
6 Those teams right now are undertaking efforts to 7
enhance our guidance and not only to train and 8
communicate with our staff. But someone mentioned 9
earlier high quality applications from the industry 10 are important.
11 We can look at our processes and come up 12 with internal process efficiencies. But it also 13 requires high quality applications from the industry.
14 As part of that, we've had a number of public 15 meetings.
16 We're planning another workshop to have 17 that conversation so that as we approach issues, we're 18 looking at how we update our guidance, how we train 19 our staff, and how we also engage the industry to make 20 sure that moving forward in licensing there's mutual 21 understanding of what a high quality application 22 entails. So we have LEAP teams that are working 23 together, evaluating our processes. We're also 24 looking at we have a number of initiatives ongoing in 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
63 NRR that are driving towards efficiency.
1 And I'll pause and say, what does 2
efficient mean? To define what we are going after, we 3
really looked at our principles of good regulation.
4 Efficiency has been part of that since the beginning.
5 We look at project management principles, 6
our strategic plan to drive at -- efficiency can mean 7
reduced cost and schedule of licensing applications.
8 Driving into efficiency also goes to risk-informed 9
decision making, data driven decision making, being 10 proficient in our processes and accountable to those 11 processes. So as we evaluate our initiatives, we're 12 ensuring that those objectives of efficiency, 13 timeliness, and predictability are met.
14 So we have a team for power uprates, for 15 example. That is looking at how we can grade power 16 uprate reviews to ensure that we're focusing our time 17 on the most important areas of power uprates using 18 historical data. I believe you recently had a meeting 19 on streamline license renewal reviews.
20 So a lot of activity is happening there to 21 streamline that process and those reviews. Mike has 22 mentioned improving the project management processes 23 and techniques. Beyond this, we're working towards 24 how do we enhance our LIC-206 processes, integrated 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
64 review teams bringing risk into the very front of the 1
review to make sure that we're applying the right 2
resources in reviews.
3 And those are just a few examples of some 4
of the initiatives that we're undertaking to drive 5
licensing efficiency within NRR and across the agency.
6 Our next public workshop is scheduled for the late May 7
-- we're trying to nail down the schedule for the late 8
May time frame to talk to the industry, the public, 9
and the non-governmental organizations to get 10 feedback.
11 And we're also very focused on how we are 12 measuring. So licensing, the easiest measure for how 13 we're efficient in licensing is schedule duration and 14 the number of hours spent. So that's one measure.
15 And we've seen success so far, even with 16 some of the pre-ADVANCE Act changes that we've 17 implemented. So for example, we changed just how we 18 schedule our reviews. So prior to -- FY '23 and 19 prior, we established a one-year schedule for the vast 20 majority of our licensing actions.
21 And data showed us that we were actually 22 getting those done much sooner. Some would work 23 towards a one-year schedule. But we were using data 24 for various categories of licensing action to see this 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
65 action should be done in eight months or six months.
1 So shifting from the generic one-year 2
schedule, we made our metric the estimated completion 3
schedule to drive behavior change in our project 4
manager's end and our reviewers using data. So we 5
were not crunching the safety review. We were saying, 6
what does data tell us this review should take?
7 And we reduced the schedule by 18 percent 8
on average and our duration of the review by 6 9
percent. As we go through -- so for each of our 10 initiatives -- so that's our long view. Licensing, it 11 is a lagging indicator.
12 So we won't be able to measure the 13 schedule and hours duration impacts until those 14 actions are issued. So we're looking at interim 15 measures to make sure that we're driving in the right 16 direction for each of these initiatives. So for all 17 of the initiatives that we're undertaking, the teams 18 are looking at how do we show success in the interim.
19 And to make sure that, as you said, we are not gumming 20 up the system, that we're actually going in the right 21 direction. So those are just a few of the highlights.
22 MEMBER HARRINGTON: So in your public 23 engagements with NEI and other organizations, to the 24 point of high quality applications, are they 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
66 recognizing their role in that process?
1 MS. PELTON: Absolutely, absolutely. And 2
that's been part of the dialogue. And we're really 3
looking forward to the workshop in May because we will 4
have completed products that we can share and have the 5
open dialogue to see what are the best practices.
6 So for a pre-application meeting, we're 7
going to think about what is the right time to have 8
that meeting. What is the right level of information 9
to have at that meeting? Because if there is a piece 10 of the review, for example, that might be first of a 11 kind but it's not brought up during that 12 pre-application meeting.
13 It might not be the most effective. So 14 those up front and transparent communications as 15 Sabrina talked about, ensuring that our staff know 16 when to lean forward and ask questions and present 17 information and describe processes in a way that's not 18 consulting but adding clarity for the industry, those 19 are all best practices that are going to help us get 20 better in the long run. And the industry is 21 absolutely receptive and looking forward to -- at 22 least from the feedback I've heard to our workshop and 23 future dialogue.
24 MR. KING: Yeah, and if I could add onto 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
67 that a little bit, consistent with the new mission 1
language of enabling, I think this is an area where we 2
could do better also to help industry be more 3
successful engaging with us. And in particular, being 4
able to answer simple questions, like, under what 5
circumstances does it make sense to come to the NRC as 6
pre-application engagement? Because it may be less 7
efficient to do that in some situations.
8 But today we don't collect unnecessary 9
data internally to know if are these type of licensing 10 actions -- if you come in for a pre-application 11 engagement, does it typically result in fewer RAIs?
12 Does it typically result in less overall review? We 13 got to do better on our end to be able to collect that 14 information so we can help share, hey, these are the 15 situations as we see it where it makes sense to do 16 that.
17 Also, doing a better job of tracking 18 throughout the life cycle of a review. Who has the 19 ball and who is causing delays and being very 20 transparent about it. If we are behind, we need to be 21 very clear.
22 Hey, we're behind our schedule. It's the 23 NRC causing this delay. But if the delay is caused by 24 a licensee who is provided not adequate quality, us 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
68 being very transparent with the licensee and saying, 1
okay, we consider the amount of time to these delays 2
to be as a result of this. Do you agree?
3 And let's have that candid conversation, 4
right? And we track that. If we do a better job of 5
tracking all that, then we will be able to provide 6
more high quality feedback to licensees and applicants 7
on, hey, these are the areas where we have 8
historically seen challenges with the quality of 9
reviews.
10 Today, it's a little hit or miss. It's 11 about what you recall was a challenge on an issue. We 12 can do better there. And I think all that falls in 13 the area of being much more transparent and enabling 14 in the sense of the new mission not crossing any lines 15 it doesn't make sense to cross.
16 MEMBER BALLINGER: To the extent that I 17 can blow your horn, I personally -- only one person's 18 opinion. I think we've seen improvements in that area 19 with the last reviews that we've been doing. And so 20 there's much more engagement I think along the lines 21 of what you're talking about. So I think it's 22 happening.
23 VICE CHAIR HALNON: Yeah, I think the 24 advent of a lot of new licensing folks is a double 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
69 edged sword. You get folks that come in and they are 1
truly looking at lessons learned because they don't 2
know otherwise. And you have the other folks that 3
think that they know everything and they pop out 4
whatever they want to pop out, thinking they don't 5
need pre-engagement.
6 And the pre-engagements is what staff has 7
a chance to really give expectations what they want to 8
see and need to see. So it's a double edged sword on 9
the new ones. But the workshops, I was going to make 10 a comment.
11 They're highly valuable. I think that the 12 coming into an atmosphere of a bunch of new companies 13 coming in, new licensing folks, and a lot of retiring 14 that used to do licensing, it's real important to have 15 full day, multi-day in-person type workshops. And 16 we've encouraged that in other areas as well.
17 MEMBER PETTI: Yeah, also -- and I 18 mentioned this at the meeting -- the use of audits, 19 foreign or AI, is just huge. We see it in all those 20 ones we've done, electronic reading rooms which is 21 more on the licensee side. But there are better ways 22 to engage with technology today. And it's showing --
23 it's paying dividends.
24 MS. PELTON: Absolutely. And that is one 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
70 of the focuses -- focus areas on the reactor LEAP team 1
that we'll be talking about at the workshop next month 2
because how we get supplemental information from the 3
licensees is so important. How we can be mutually 4
effective in that is very important, absolutely.
5 MR. KING: Okay, great. And now I'll turn 6
it over to Phil who's going to talk to you a little 7
bit. If you go to the next slide. And sorry, the 505 8
report is not a congressional report. It's a report 9
to the EO. But it's a very important, broad, cross 10 cutting area for us.
11 So we think it's of high importance in 12 particular. And of course, Section 507 which deals 13 with improving our oversight inspection programs is 14 another very important area. And this one is a 15 congressional report. So Phil, go ahead.
16 MR. MCKENNA: And I'll just say that the 17 congressional report is due at least to the EDO on May 18 19th. So the report is already in its first draft.
19 And so we were tasked with Section 507 which is 20 improving oversight and special programs across all 21 the business lines in the agency does not operate on 22 reactors.
23 And the specific task was to identify 24 specific improvements to a nuclear reactor and 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
71 materials oversight and special programs that the 1
Commission may implement to maximize the efficiency of 2
such programs through appropriate risk-informed 3
performance-based procedures, expanding incorporation 4
of information technologies, and staff training. So 5
Mr. Halnon, you had spoken about the first public 6
meeting that we had on this effort.
7 And we initially had gone after -- it was 8
a two prong approach where we were going to give 9
licensees credit for sustained performance in column 10 1 of the action matrix for ROP and then later go on 11 and go after new performance indicators. We pulled 12 all that up. And the current plan is to revise all 13 the performance indicators which will start next month 14 to work in earnest on and doing a holistic review and 15 rebaselining of the entire ROP based on getting new 16 performance indicators that are going to take in place 17 of an inspection itself.
18 VICE CHAIR HALNON: You think you'll be 19 expanding the number then?
20 (Simultaneous speaking.)
21 MR. MCKENNA: Yeah, absolutely. It would 22 be more performance indicators than we have now and 23 potentially treating the performance indicators 24 different where it's not a movement in the action 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
72 matrix. It's a movement in the amount of inspection 1
that occurs.
2 VICE CHAIR HALNON: And get rid of the 3
MSPI.
4 MR. MCKENNA: And change that performance 5
indicator. Yes, sir. So like I said, this was across 6
all oversight processes and programs in the agency.
7 Some of the actions in the Act itself are very 8
specific to entrance and exit meetings. We're 9
adopting that across all the business lines, making 10 entrance meetings optional.
11 Exit meetings can be as simple as talking 12 to the licensing manager if there's no performance or 13 no documentation of findings as part of the 14 inspection. That can be done remotely after the 15 inspection is done. There's some specific language in 16 there for the CCI program for operating reactors which 17 we'll have a discussion on in the report to Congress 18 and in the separate paper to the Commission for 19 recommending what to do with that program.
20 We've taken action on reducing the amount 21 of documentation in inspection reports in particular, 22 very low safety significant issues, i.e., green in the 23 ROP or Severity Level IV in traditional enforcement 24 where we're not spending a lot of time on documenting 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
73 those, one or two paragraphs and move on to a more 1
significant inspection. We're also recommending that 2
we give licensees credit for finding their own issues 3
that screen to white. Now we don't do that.
4 If there's an issue that screens to white, 5
we take credit for it. And we have movement in the 6
action matrix. So the plan right now would be if the 7
Commission approves, that licensee would get that 8
credit.
9 We would still have some follow-on 10 inspection afterwards. But the licensee would remain 11 in column 1 of the action matrix. Like we said in 12 that first public meeting, we talked about adjusting 13 the amount of baseline inspection for licensee 14 performance.
15 We're going to give guidance in our 16 current manual chapters where that may be appropriate 17 to go to minimum samples that we have right now.
18 There's a range of minimum, nominal, and max samples 19 for each inspection procedure. It may not make sense 20 to go to nominal level to complete the inspection 21 procedure.
22 It may make more sense based on the number 23 of samples that are available and the licensee's 24 performance just to do the minimum. So they're kind 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
74 of the aspects of the change we're doing. Like I 1
said, as the project team itself, all the ideas that 2
we discussed and most of the ideas were staff driven.
3 Our starting point was the past ROP 4
enhancement effort. So we pulled that all in, 5
evaluated all those old recommendations from ROP 6
enhancements, and came up with the list of items that 7
were going on right now. And we spread those across 8
all the business lines.
9 VICE CHAIR HALNON: Just a couple, and I 10 do see that those early letters are sprinkled 11 throughout this. I think that's very positive and 12 they were conceptional ideas originally. I know some 13 of them are difficult to implement.
14 There was -- I thought I heard somewhere 15 that you were considering some kind of relationship 16 with INPO that you could get some of this, at least 17 that data. I know you may not want to open up the 18 INPO indicators to the process. But you can -- the 19 data that gets sent, at least you can reduce the 20 burden on the licensees.
21 MR. MCKENNA: Right. We had some initial 22 indications or discussions with INPO. And that's the 23 right thought process, that we know the licensees are 24 already collecting the data. So they could report 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
75 some set of data directly to us that we could use for 1
our performance indicators. So that's the starting 2
point for the new performance indicators.
3 VICE CHAIR HALNON: And that'll help with 4
the safety culture aspects of the site too, which is 5
really one of the key areas of corrective action and 6
how programs are being maintained. One other 7
question, when we redid the engineering inspection 8
programs, I believe -- correct me if I'm wrong -- that 9
we did take an emphasis away from the old design 10
- basis, licensing basis and looking at more 11 programmatic and how the equipment is operating. I'm 12 looking forward to the aging management project.
13 MR. MCKENNA: That is correct. And as 14 part of this effort of rebaselining the ROP, we will 15 reevaluate the engineering inspection program. We're 16 going to do the effectiveness review of the current 17 four-year cycle which just started in 2023 this year.
18 So we can have those recommendations ready to go live 19 when nominally the new ROP will be in place for the 20 beginning of 2027. But yes, so all the inspection 21 effort will get relooked at again.
22 VICE CHAIR HALNON: Thanks.
23 MR. KING: Okay. So if you go to the next 24 slide. So that's all the reports that we've already 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
76 issued and a couple of the big ones that we wanted to 1
spend significant time kind of catching you up on.
2 And these are just some deadlines for some of the ones 3
I mentioned early on, the combined license review 4
procedure for things like someone wants to follow with 5
another AP1000.
6 What's our expedited review? How would we 7
qualify somebody for that? We've had a couple 8
meetings on that one. That one is due September of 9
this year.
10 The discussion we've had earlier about 11 brownfield sites, that one is due a little bit later 12 on. That's July of '27. So we still have a lot of 13 public engagement opportunities on that one. And 14 similar with a
microreactor frameworks, the 15 brownfields and the microreactor framework, those are 16 a little further out in terms of timelines.
17 VICE CHAIR HALNON: So Mark, what is the 18 issue on brownfield sites? And I realize that they're 19 attractive because they've already got the services 20 around the transmission and that sort of thing. Is it 21 the amount of real estate and the environmental piece 22 the most because of what was there before?
23 The amount of real estate based on the 24 fact that there's probably a smaller footprint. You 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
77 might need a bigger footprint. Is that the main 1
issues there, environmental?
2 MR. KING: Yeah, I think coordinate with 3
the states, figuring out what we can do to make use of 4
this land that potentially has legacy environmental 5
issues and how can we be smart about the approach we 6
use to make that site productive, working through 7
those issues of how do you deal with the legacy.
8 VICE CHAIR HALNON: You might pull the 9
industry for plants. I know that when I was at my 10 previous utility, we sited a plant, an SMR when you 11 look at brownfield sites. And we put them on the list 12 and took them off the list for various reasons. But 13 there may be some lessons learned from some of the 14 false starts that some of these utilities had back in 15 mid-teens when they used the process to site it just 16 to get some, hey, this is what stopped us.
17 MR. KING: Yeah, in fact, I was able to 18 attend at least one of the brownfield site public 19 meetings that we've had. And the states were very 20 active. In fact, some of the states participated in 21 those discussions.
22 And sharing experiences in the past and 23 what do we think the unique challenges would be. How 24 can we overcome those challenges? That's a key 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
78 aspect, the discussion. And we've got a lot more work 1
to do on this one. So there'll be a lot more 2
opportunities for stakeholders to weigh in on.
3 MEMBER HARRINGTON: Is there also some 4
guidance to help figure out siting --
5 (Simultaneous speaking.)
6 VICE CHAIR HALNON: Yeah, there's an EPRI 7
document out there, plus Oak Ridge has a big -- I 8
can't remember what they call it, but some kind of 9
siting geo program that helps you drill down into just 10 below the soil levels that you can determine what was 11 the best spot for it.
12 MR. KING: Okay. Next slide. And if 13 you've attended any of the previous ADVANCE Act, these 14 slides are going to look very familiar. But early on, 15 we did establish a public website. And if you scan 16 that QR code, it'll take you to the public website.
17 On there, we've got a dashboard that shows 18 all the 36 actions we're tracking and the current 19 status of them. And we thought this was particularly 20 helpful for stakeholders because for each of those 21 actions, there's a way you can click on the 22 information. On the right, it'll show you their point 23 of contact.
24 So if they want to reach out and share 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
79 thoughts to anybody in particular who's leading those 1
projects, they can do that. So we thought that was a 2
way for us to be more transparent about what's going 3
on. Go to the next slide. Also, on that website, we 4
consolidated every public meeting related to the 5
6 If you notice when they're posted, there's 7
a hashtag, ADVANCENRC, embedded somewhere in there.
8 And we use that as an automated way to kind of keep 9
track of everything that's ever occurred. So if you 10 miss a meeting, you're interested in what may have 11 happened in a meeting, you can come there and it's all 12 in one place.
13 And upcoming meetings that have been 14 noticed will all be there as well. And then there's 15 a Contact Us link on the right. If you go to the next 16 slide. And I mentioned earlier in the presentation 17 we've had over 30 ideas submitted externally.
18 Many of them have come through this 19 website itself. Makes it easy for folks to give us 20
- ideas, comments, suggestions, or just general 21 feedback. In fact, someone invited me to speak at one 22 of the state utility conferences through this website.
23 I got an invite to that.
24 So this is -- and also on the website, 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
80 we're maintaining a list of all the relevant 1
references. Any of the congressional reports, any of 2
the deliverables, we're trying to keep it up to date 3
to make it easier for folks to see. Okay. Say we're 4
done with something. Where is that document at? We 5
try to list it on the website. So keep us honest. If 6
you see we're falling behind on something, let us 7
know. So next slide.
8 MEMBER ROBERTS: Can you go back to slide 9
16, the three things, potential interest of the ACRS?
10 Looking at the ADVANCE Act, there's some interim dates 11 that are considerably more aggressive than the three 12 dates you have listed there. How are you tracking 13 that?
14 For
- example, microreactor framework, 15 there's a deliverable in January of 2026 which if we 16 were to review it, it would come right in the middle 17 of a very busy period for us. I'm just wondering 18 what's in there. How do we track to what we would 19 expect to be coming?
20 MR. KING: So we've got a much more 21 detailed breakdown for each of these. And at the 22 public meetings, we talk about the interim milestones.
23 And I don't have them broken out here.
24 But you're right. For several of these, 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
81 there are deliverable dates to
- EDO, separate 1
deliverable dates to the Commission, and separate 2
deliverable dates to -- if there's a congressional 3
report to Congress. So I don't have the detailed 4
breakdown for each of these.
5 (Simultaneous speaking.)
6 MEMBER ROBERTS: But for example, Section 7
208 starts with the Commission shall not later than 18 8
months after the date of the enactment of the Act 9
developed risk-informed and performance-based 10 strategies and guidance to license and regulate 11 microreactors. So what does that mean? Does that 12 mean you come through all the ACRS reviews that will 13 be required and Commission approval and just you don't 14 have to tell Congress yet? Or is there some better 15 definition of what that actually means in terms of 16 what you're going to do?
17 MR. KING: So that's the Commission's 18 opportunity to get an early look at what would 19 eventually be in the congressional report. So for 20 that reason, they decided to break it up. They knew 21 they wanted to take an early look at what the staff 22 was working on.
23 And they didn't do that -- they didn't 24 take that approach with all of them clearly. But for 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
82 some of them perhaps longer term items where they may 1
want to have more substantive interaction with the 2
staff, they did specify some interim milestones. And 3
to the extent there's desire amongst ACRS to be 4
involved, we would need to coordinate in advance of 5
any of those.
6 MEMBER ROBERTS: Okay, thanks.
7 MR. KING: So any other questions, burning 8
questions? Happy to answer.
9 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Well, one observation is 10 that the ADVANCE Act did not really call out ACRS. So 11 where do you see ACRS engaging with these initiatives?
12 And where could we help the agency most?
13 MR. KING: Yeah, that's a good question.
14 And coming into this meeting, I kind of asked myself 15 that. I really didn't see an area where we're really 16 diving in to make substantive changes to our approach 17 to the technical areas of review.
18 It's more largely what can we do with our 19 processes to ensure we're focused on the most safety 20 significant things. And so I didn't -- nothing really 21 jumped out at me in particular. But obviously, you 22 all have your unique areas of expertise.
23 VICE CHAIR HALNON: Yeah, part of our 24 mission is the ACRS is like a safety policy too. So 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
83 if you ever start messing with actual safety policies, 1
and that's a real nebulous term. I get it. But it 2
should have some nexus to safety in some respect.
3 I think like the ROP stuff, if you're 4
really drawing back on the amount of inspection, that 5
might be an area that you may want to get maybe an 6
independent look and either some advice and/or 7
confirmation that you're in the right area or from us 8
saying roger that could be helpful for you to sell 9
something because you're trying to move against a 10 headwind. So you can use us to your advantage. Or 11 there's also some possible areas we might call in 12 because we see a safety policy that's significant.
13 MR. KING: Understand. And I think with 14 regards to the voter ROP ideas, having discussions 15 with things like Scott Morris who is around. And when 16 we formulate the existing ROP, this is not a departure 17 from the original principles of ROP. It's a fresh 18 leveraging all the technology and the information 19 that's already been collected and going back to first 20 principles --
21 (Simultaneous speaking.)
22 VICE CHAIR HALNON: Yeah, I agree. I 23 think it's going in the right direction, and I think 24 that you got the right people on it.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
84 CHAIR KIRCHNER: What do you see doing in 1
the area of fusion framework?
2 MR. KING: Again, this is an area where 3
I'm not the expert.
4 (Laughter.)
5 MR. KING: And that one is certainly a 6
little further out.
7 CHAIR KIRCHNER: We touched on that a 8
while back. I think where the industry was bonding 9
very strongly with Congress and the Commission. It 10 was a pretty light touch while they're in the R&D 11 phase. The question of if and when they actually turn 12 these devices into something that resembles a power 13 plant, maybe move up on your screen, I guess, in terms 14 of priorities. Members, any other questions or 15 comments? Online, Matt, Vesna?
16 (Simultaneous speaking.)
17 MEMBER DIMITRIJEVIC: I'm good.
18 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Well, we typically --
19 when we do our meetings so you know how we operate, we 20 usually have a public comment period. I haven't 21 checked who is -- and these are open meetings. So if 22 there's anyone out there from the public who wishes to 23 make a comment, please state your name, affiliation as 24 appropriate, and make your comment. Yes, we see 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
85 someone with a hand raised. Joy Jiang, you wish to 1
make a comment?
2 MS. JIANG: Yes, can you hear me?
3 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Yes, we can.
4 MS. JIANG: Yes, thank you. This is Joy 5
Jiang with The Breakthrough Institute. We are a think 6
tank here in Washington, D.C. I just want to make a 7
comment saying that we have been focusing on following 8
the ADVANCE Act, all kinds of activities really 9
closely.
10 And we are really happy that our name was 11 mentioned earlier when you were discussing the Section 12 501, the new mission statement. I think of our input 13 into the ADVANCE Act not only for Section 501 but also 14 for the other sections is just trying to be a good 15 public engagement force and try to cooperate with the 16 NRC and the ACRS and all of the stakeholders to make 17 sure that the ADVANCE Act was signed into law. But 18 it's also implemented successfully as it should.
19 So we will continue to doing that. And 20 hopefully, you will mention our name more and more in 21 the meeting and also in the report. Yeah, so one more 22 comment is that hopefully in the future upcoming 23 meetings, all the -- not written comment but just the 24 comment stage in the meeting would also taking into 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
86 account as important as the written letters and 1
comments. We do have several letters in our draft 2
box. And we look forward to future engagement with 3
all the stakeholders. Thank you so much.
4 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Thank you, Joy. Any 5
other members of the public? I forgot to mention our 6
ground rules, Mike. You don't have to answer the 7
questions. They can be sent into a designated federal 8
officer for the meeting.
9 Okay. Anything else? Well, then on 10 behalf of the committee, I thank you for taking the 11 time to come down and brief us. And we certainly wish 12 you success in your efforts. And we look forward 13 interacting with you as appropriate as you make 14 progress on your agenda. So thank you.
15 For those online, we will pick up letter 16 writing again at 3:10 Eastern Time. So we are going 17 into recess for the next 15 minutes.
18 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went 19 off the record at 2:55 p.m.)
20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
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- $6+,1*721'&
www.nealrgross.com C E R T I F I C A T E This is to certify that the foregoing transcript In the matter of:
Before:
Date:
Place:
was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate DPNQMFUFrecord of the proceedings.
Court Reporter 88 724th Meeting of the ACRS U.S. NRC 04-03-25 teleconference
NRCs Implementation of the ADVANCE Act Mike King Special Assistant for ADVANCE Act Implementation Jamie Pelton Deputy Director, Division of Operating Reactor Licensing, NRR Phil McKenna Deputy Director, Division of Reactor Oversight, NRR April 3, 2025
The Landscape Has Changed 2
Growing demand to support advanced tech Increased need for energy security Improved public perception
Overview of the Act Update mission statement and develop implementing guidance Enhance initiatives for efficient, timely, and predictable license application reviews Establish an expedited procedure for reviewing qualifying new reactor license applications Implement changes regarding fee recovery, including a reduced rate for advanced reactor applicants and pre-applicants 3
Overview of the Act Develop a regulatory framework for fusion technology Assess the licensing review process for new nuclear facilities at former fossil-fuel power plant sites and brownfield sites Implement new requirements relating to nuclear fuel Remove certain limitations on foreign ownership of some types of licensed facilities 4
Overview of the Act Continue to support international coordination on nuclear technologies and licensing activities Develop strategies and guidance for microreactors Establish a nuclear energy traineeship subprogram to meet critical mission and nuclear workforce needs Take appropriate actions on new pay and hiring authorities 5
The Core Team Mike King Special Assistant Owen Barwell Jack Giessner John Lubinski Chief Financial Officer Administrator, Region 3
- Director, NMSS Jessica Bielecki Assistant General Counsel 6
The Support Team Annie Ramirez Project Management Luis Betancourt Project Management Aaron McCraw Communications 7
Jessica Hammock Project Management
ADVANCE Act by the Numbers 8
30 Over Public meetings held to engage interested parties on ADVANCE Act topics 36 Actions tasked related to the ADVANCE Act (9 completed as of March 26) 30 Submissions from the public related to the ADVANCE Act 20 Agency project teams formed to address actions Over 130 Over Ideas from the NRC staff related to the ADVANCE Act
Section 501 - ADVANCE-ing the Mission 9
NRC Mission Statement The NRC protects public health and safety and advances the nations common defense and security by enabling the safe and secure use and deployment of civilian nuclear energy technologies and radioactive materials through efficient and reliable licensing, oversight, and regulation for the benefit of society and the environment.
10 Section 401 - Report on Advanced Methods of Manufacturing and Construction Benefited from public input to explore alternatives beyond the traditional reliance on nuclear codes and standards Identified development of additional guidance for emergent technologies as action to enhance efficiency in staff reviews and provide greater clarity to applicants Examined accelerating the endorsement process to provide regulatory predictability for applicants using code-approved innovative manufacturing techniques and materials
Focused technical review level:
30% resource savings for subsequent license renewals Enhanced resource analyses: 5500-hour model for reactor renewal environmental impact statements Leveraging MOUs on over 1/2 of new reactor projects: 50% resource saving when other agencies lead consultations 11 Section 506 - Modernization of Nuclear Reactor Environmental Reviews
Other Milestones of Interest 12 Signed Memorandum of Understanding with DOE on advanced nuclear fuels, as required by Section 404 December 12, 2024 Issued report on new hiring and pay authorities to Congress, as required by Section 502 December 17, 2024
Consistent with the Spirit of the Act 13
- Revised inspection manual chapter for light-water reactors
- Provides clear expectations and best practices to monitor technical support between Headquarters and Regions
- Helps ensure timely resolution of low-level safety issues
- Issued memo on expectations for reactor licensing efficiencies
- Disciplined, safety-focused, risk-informed reviews
- Enhanced pre-application engagements
- Establishing effective metrics to track the timely completion of licensing actions, inspections, resolution of low-level issues and differing professional views
Section 505 - Nuclear Licensing Efficiencies
- Licensing Efficiencies and Processes (LEAP) teams
- Leveraging our licensing experience on power uprates requests
- Streamlining license renewal reviews
- Improving project management processes and techniques 14 Upcoming Actions of ACRS Interest
Section 507 - Improving Oversight and Inspection Programs
- Comprehensive review of the NRC's Reactor Oversight Process including security
- All performance indicators (17 total)
- All inspection procedures (42 total)
- Interim changes to reactor safety inspections frequency & scope based on industry performance
- Frequency, schedule, and content of security inspections
- Treatment of white findings
- Inspection preparation and documentation enhancements 15 Upcoming Actions of ACRS Interest
16 Future Actions of ACRS Interest Section 207 Combined license review procedure Tasking due Sept 2025 Section 206 Brownfield sites Final action due Jul 2027 Section 208 Micro-reactor framework Final action due Jul 2027
How to Follow Our Progress Follow NRCs ADVANCE Act implementation with this Dashboard 17
How to Stay Engaged For NRCs public meeting information on ADVANCE Act activities 18
How to Ask Questions and Submit Ideas Contact us with ADVANCE Act questions, comments, and ideas 19
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