ML24144A246
| ML24144A246 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | NS Savannah |
| Issue date: | 05/08/2024 |
| From: | Tanya Hood Reactor Decommissioning Branch |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NRC-2816, EPID L-2023-LLA-0151 | |
| Download: ML24144A246 (1) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Public Meeting on Nuclear Ship Savannah License Termination Plan Docket Number:
(n/a)
Location:
teleconference Date:
Wednesday, May 8, 2024 Work Order No.:
NRC-2816 Pages 1-58 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1716 14th Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20009 (202) 234-4433
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
+ + + + +
3 PUBLIC MEETING ON NUCLEAR SHIP SAVANNAH LICENSE 4
TERMINATION PLAN 5
+ + + + +
6 WEDNESDAY, 7
MAY 8, 2024 8
+ + + + +
9 The meeting was convened 5:59 p.m. EDT, 10 Lynn Ronewicz, Facilitator, presiding.
11 PRESENT:
12 TANYA HOOD, Licencing Project Manager 13 ERHARD KOEHLER, Senior Technical Advisor, 14 N.S. SAVANNAH 15 JANE
- MARSHALL, Director, Division of 16 Decommissioning, Uranium Recovery, and 17 Waste Program 18 LYNN RONEWICZ, Facilitator 19 LINDA GERSEY 20 NATE FUGUET 21 DIANA DIAZ TORO 22 JEAN TREFETHEN 23 EMIL TABAKOV 24 LOUIS CAPONI 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
2 SHAUN ANDERSON 1
ANDREW TAVERNA 2
JEN WHITMAN 4
NIKKI WARNEK 6
JANE MARSHALL 7
10 ALSO PRESENT:
11 JUSTIN LONG 12 ROB JACKSON 13 JOHN HICKMAN 14 ANNE JENNINGS 15 LEE DUBOIS 16 LORI GLANDER 17 DAVID MINGES 18 JACK FLETCHER 19 ZEDRA TAYLOR 20 LINA PLANUTYTE 21 JOHN DAMM 22 RUTH CHES 23 JOHN WIEGAND 24 ROBERT SHERANKO 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
3 LISA MILES 1
RICHARD SCHIAPPACASSE 2
WENDY COBLE 3
ANTHONY MARGAN 4
ANNA HOLLOWAY 5
JOHN KELLY 6
CORNELIA MUELLER 7
NADIA GLUCKSBERG 8
MICHAEL HAMBY 9
GAIL MARRCUS 10 CYNTHIA BEAROR 11 WILLIAM MCCREADY 12 MICHAEL TINKEL 13 RONALD THURLOW 14 MATTHEW ARSENAULT 15 PAUL JOHNSTON 16 SCOTT GINTER 17 LARRY BOING 18 KEN EGBUNA 19 WILLIAM FOWLER 20 HILTRUD KOEHLER 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
4 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 1
5:59 p.m.
2 MS. HOOD: All right and welcome. My name 3
is Tanya Hood. I'm the licensing project manager for 4
the Decommissioning of Nuclear Ship Savannah. This is 5
a meeting that is being held between the United States 6
Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the United States 7
Maritime Administration. This is also to look at 8
their license Termination Plan, to have a discussion 9
related to that document. You will get more insight 10 as we go along about where to locate that information.
11 This meeting is a common gathering meeting 12 for the public. It is scheduled to be held between 13 6:00 p.m. and 7:30 p.m.. We have members of the 14 public to get the opportunity to have your voices 15 concerned with the NRC at this meeting. This gives us 16 the opportunity to hear what your concerns are, give 17 you a chance to make sure that we understand what you 18 are asking, and give you the chance to have your 19 comments asked at this time.
20 This is also, so that you're aware, some 21 acronyms. We do our best to stay away from acronyms, 22 but there are a few that you will hear. The Nuclear 23 Regulatory Commission will be referenced as the NRC.
24 The Maritime Administration will sometimes be 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
5 referenced as MARAD. We will also hear the License 1
Termination Plan sometimes referenced as the LTP. So 2
those are a few acronyms that you will consistently 3
hear along the way.
4 At this time, I ask those that are members 5
of the public that are in the room, I ask you to sign 6
in because the sign-in sheet gives us an opportunity 7
to make certain that we're accountable in the event of 8
an emergency. If there is an emergency -- there's 9
people logging on and off to the online meeting --
10 this is a hybrid meeting that is being transcribed.
11 With this I wanted to also share that for 12 those that are in person, if there is an emergency, we 13 would like for you to make certain that you follow the 14 instructions that are given. And I'm going to ask 15 Erhard Koehler, the senior technical advisor for the 16 NS Savannah to come and give you that information and 17 to let you know where the restrooms are as well.
18 Mr. Erhard?
19 MR. KOEHLER: All right, thank you, Tanya.
20 Welcome, everybody, to the Nuclear Ship 21 Savannah. It's our great pleasure to host you on 22 board for this License Termination Plan meeting. This 23 space was equipped for this purpose. The design 24 origanted with Al Adams from NRR at NRC, the new 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
6 office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation back 20-some-1 years ago. So it's been a long time coming and we're 2
happy to be here.
3 Everybody's who's on the ship tonight, 4
virtually everybody that's on the ship tonight is in 5
this room. If there should be an emergency during the 6
meeting, we have Nick Walsh and Caleb Soon from our 7
staff who will go and investigate the emergency. It 8
will likely be an alarm sounding. They will act as 9
the first responders to go and investigate the 10 condition. We will shelter in place in this room 11 until I am notified by radio as to what the position 12 of the problem may be.
13 In the event of an actual emergency, for 14 example, a fire, then we would evacuate the ship, 15 basically either the way that we came on board, or if 16 the path were blocked we would go outside and we would 17 use of the exterior egress ladders. So there's no 18 work going on elsewhere; the chances of something 19 happening should be fairly remote, but again, if that 20 should occur, simply stay in here. I will give you 21 direction and then we'll get you out safely.
22 As far as the restrooms are concerned, if 23 at some point during the meeting you need to leave and 24 go to the restroom, you're going to exit the room in 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
7 the back and simply go straight out through the glass 1
door on the lefthand side of the window wall in the 2
veranda. You'll take a ladder down on the lefthand 3
side of the ship and the restrooms will be right 4
there. So if you need assistance getting there, 5
several members of the staff can assist you getting 6
there. All right, thank you.
7 MS. HOOD: Thank you so much for that.
8 So I want to be mindful that we do have a connection 9
issue for those that are online. We will connect back 10 with the online portion of the meeting when we get 11 there. But at this moment I would like to have Jane 12 Marshall, our Division Director, come and give you 13 opening remarks. Jane?
14 MS. MARSHALL: Thanks, Tanya. As Tanya 15 mentioned, I'm Jane Marshall. I'm the director for 16 the Division of Decommissioning, Uranium Recovery and 17 Waste Programs at the US Nuclear Regulatory 18 Commission.
19 The NS Savannah or Nuclear Ship Savannah, 20 is the world's first nuclear-powered merchant ship.
21 When it was launched in 1959 as a demonstration ship 22 and a signature element of President Eisenhaur's Atoms 23 for Peace program, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's 24 predecessor, the Atomic Energy Commission, was there 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
8 to oversee that.
1 I now have the pleasure of overseeing the 2
public's opportunity to participate in the 3
decommissioning process. The purpose of today's 4
meeting is to describe the NRC's License Termination 5
process, the License Termination Plan for the 6
Savannah, and to accept public comments. The License 7
Termination Plan was submitted as a supplement to the 8
updated Final Safety Analysis Report and is required 9
to demonstrate compliance with NRC Decommissioning and 10 License Termination requirements.
11 This meeting is provided prior to NRC's 12 approval or denial of the licensed amendment. If the 13 License Termination Plan passes the approval process, 14 the NRC will approve it by a license amendment and 15 then MARAD would finish implementation. After that, 16 NRC will move on to License Termination. During this 17 meeting NRC staff will provide insight about the 18 decommissioning process and regulatory oversight and 19 inspection program. The licensee, MARAD, will provide 20 an overview of their progress and insight about their 21 endstate considerations.
22 After that we invite you to share your 23 comments and ask questions of the NRC staff. We hope 24 everyone has an opportunity to ask any questions you 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
9 had and to provide comments. This meeting is 1
scheduled to conclude by 7:30 this evening. We 2
appreciate you taking your time today to meet with us 3
and discuss the License Termination Plan for the NS 4
Savannah.
5 I've also been informed that this is our 6
first meeting aboard ship for the Nuclear Regulatory 7
Commission. So thanks for joining us for that first 8
for the NRC. With that, I'll turn it back over to 9
10 MS. HOOD: Thank you, Jane. So we would 11 like to have the rest of the introductions take place 12 at this time. We will start in-person with the NRC 13 staff simply stating your name and your title. Then 14 we will have the MARAD team introduce themselves with 15 name and title. From there I will turn the meeting 16 over to Lynn Ronewicz. She is our facilitator online.
17 She will ask the members of the NRC to 18 begin with their name and title, and then the members 19 of MARAD to say their name and title. At the end of 20 that Lynn will give us some logistics associated with 21 this meeting and then we will begin the presentation.
22 So I will start in-person by asking Nikki 23
- Warnek, our current branch chief for the 24 decommissioning branch.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
10 MS. WARNEK: Hi, my name is Nikki Warnek 1
and I'm the acting chief of Reactor Decommissioning 2
branch.
3 MR. DIMITRIADIS: Hi, good afternoon, I'm 4
Anthony Dimitriadis. I'm the branch chief responsible 5
for decommissioning 6:08 reactor HB in Region 1.
6 MR. CAPONI: Hi, my name's Louis Caponi, 7
I'm a risk analyst.
8 MR. WYMAN: Steve Wyman, I'm the branch 9
chief for the source manager protection branch.
10 MR. SHEEHAN: I'm Neil Sheehan, public 11 affairs office of the -- Region One Office 12 PARTICIPANT: -- Office of Professional 13 Affairs for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission over in 14 headquarters down in Rockville.
15 MS. TORO: Hi, I'm Diana Diaz Toro. I'm 16 an environmental project manager in headquarters.
17 Thank you.
18 MR. TABAKOV: Hi, I'm Emil Tabakov. I'm 19 financial analyst at NRC.
20 MR. PERRY: Hello, I'm Jack Perry, I'm a 21 senior project manager at the Reactor Decommissioning 22 Branch, but for this project I'm the backup VM to 23 Tanya.
24 MS. HOOD: Thank you. Erhard, you can 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
11 begin with MARAD.
1 MR. KOEHLER: Good evening. My name is 2
Erhard Koehler, I'm the senior technical advisor for 3
the Maritime Administration Act as the licensee. We 4
have a combination of direct employees and contractor 5
staff here. I'm going to begin with Jay and the rest 6
of the front row.
7 MR. TARZEY: Yes, hi, I'm Jay Tarzey. I'm 8
the chairman of the Nuclear Ship Savannah Joint 9
Venture. That's the company that's doing the 10 decommissioning for the ship, contracted by MARAD.
11 MR. EGBUNA: My name is Ken Egbuna. I'm 12 the assembly for MARAD ship construction and ship 13 disposal.
14 MR. MOORE: I'm Chris Moore. I'm the 15 senior advisor for strategics.
16 MR. DEROYCE: I'm Eric DeRoyce. I'm the 17 License Termination Plan manager for the contractor 18 that's supplying the services to MARAD.
19 MR. OSBORNE: My name is John Osborne.
20 I'm the licensing compliance manager and a contractor 21 to Jay Tarzey.
22 PARTICIPANT:
Certified Health 23 Physicist with RSCS and packing support for 24 decommissioning needs.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
12 MR. MACKLEROY: I'm Mark Mackleroy, I'm 1
the head of safety here on the nuclear --
2 MR. MARGAN: I'm Tony Margan, and I'm a 3
field inspector. I'm a contractor working for the 4
Maritime Administration.
5 MR. KOEHLER: Nick?
6 MR. WALSH: Yep, I'm Nick Walsh, I'm a 7
nuclear advisor with the RSCS.
8 MR. KOEHLER: Don?
9 MR. MCGEE: I'm Don McGee, I provide 10 independent oversight for MARAD.
11 MR. KOEHLER: And Caleb.
12 MR. SOON: Caleb Soon with MARAD, 13 Decommissioning Fireman.
14 MS. HOOD: Thank you. And now, Lynn, I'll 15 turn it over to you for the online introduction.
16 MS. RONEWICZ: Okay, first of all, do we 17 have any government officials online, and if so, 18 please go ahead and state your name and title.
19 MR. TAVERNA: Hello, my name is Andrew 20 Taverna. I'm a decommissioning inspector for the 21 Region 1 Office. You can see Tony Dimitriadis is on, 22 and it all comes from, he's my boss. I've been with 23 the NRC for approximately three years. Thank you.
24 MS. RONEWICZ: Any other NRC employees 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
13 online who would like to introduce themselves? Okay, 1
any MARAD and persons who are online and would like to 2
introduce themselves?
3 MS. HOLLOWAY: Hi, this is Anna Holloway, 4
Supervisor and Historian with MARAD.
5 MS. RONEWICZ: Thank you. Are there any 6
others?
7 MS. MILES: Hi, this is Lisa Miles, I'm a 8
contract specialist for the Savannah project.
9 MS. COLBY: I'm Linda Colby acting for the 10 preservation officer that Anna will now be taking over 11 for at MARAD.
12 MR. JOHNSTON: I'm Paul Johnston. I serve 13 on the decommissioning panel and I'm Curator of 14 Maritime History at the Smithsonian.
15 MR. ARSENAULT: Hi, I'm Matt Arsenault, 16 Decommissioning Project Manager for RSCS.
17 MR. THURLOW: Ronald Thurlow with Nuclear 18 Ship Support Services contracted at MARAD.
19 MR. WEIGAND: I'm John Weigand, Former 20 Decommissioner and Program Manager working for Erhard, 21 and currently supporting him as a contracting advising 22 engineer.
23 MS. JENNINGS: Hi, I'm Anne Jennings, I'm 24 working with MARAD as a contractor to support them on 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
14 the National Historic Preservation Act Compliance for 1
the ship.
2 MS. RONEWICZ: Okay, are there any others 3
online?
4 MR. DUDEK: Yes, my name is Michael Dudek.
5 I'm a licensing project manager for X Energy.
6 MR. MCCREADY: Yes, this is Robbie 7
McCready. I'm working with MARAD for field 8
inspections. I'm online as well.
9 MS. RONEWICZ: Thank you. Anybody else?
10 Okay, we'll look forward then. So good evening, 11 everyone. Welcome to this hybrid meeting and thank 12 you for attending.
13 My name is Lynn Ronewicz, and I will be 14 assisting with meeting facilitation. I would like to 15 reiterate that this meeting is being transcribed.
16 Please keep yourself muted unless you have been called 17 on to speak or have a speaking role. And please do 18 not turn your camera on unless you are speaking and 19 then remember to turn your camera off. This will save 20 bandwidth and allow the focus of the meeting to be on 21 the individual who is presenting or speaking.
22 This meeting is also being conducted 23 through the use of Microsoft Teams. Should you have 24 trouble with the Teams application I recommend that 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
15 you first use the Microsoft Teams link provided in the 1
meeting notice, as opposed to the Microsoft Teams app, 2
disconnect and try to reconnect to this Teams meeting, 3
or use the teleconference number that has also been 4
provided in the meeting notice to listen to this 5
meeting.
6 When we get to the Question and Answer 7
portion of the meeting, we will start with any 8
questions and comments from people joining us in 9
person, and then we'll go to the virtual attendees.
10 If you're on the phone you will be pressing star-five 11 on your phone to raise your hand, and then star-six to 12 unmute your virtual connection.
13 A court reporter is transcribing this 14 meeting, or else we are transcribing it. All 15 questions/comments are to be made verbally for the 16 court reporter to transcribe if they are attending, 17 unless the Teams chat has been disabled. I will 18 repeat these instructions when we get to the Q&A 19 period.
20 And now I'll just turn this back over to 21 Tanya Hood.
22 MS. HOOD: Thank you, Lynn, I appreciate 23 that. The meeting agenda will follow as it has been 24 presented in the public. We will begin with a 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
16 presentation for decommissioning, processing and 1
experience, then we will move on to an inspector 2
presentation for the decommissioning reactor 3
inspector, Andrew Taverna.
4 And I'll turn the meeting over to Erhard 5
Koehler for the licensee's presentation, and then 6
we'll come back and wrap that up with a presentation 7
from the NRC giving insights to the public about how 8
you can participate with the public comment process 9
and information related to the LTP review.
10 Afterwards, we will go back into a virtual space where 11 Lynn Ronewicz will support the public comment 12 discussions with questions and comments at that time, 13 and we'll close out with closing remarks from Jane 14 Marshall, and then the meeting will be done. So thank 15 you so much for your patience with all of the 16 introductions and the beginning logistics associated 17 with this meeting.
18 Our mission is closely tied to enhancing 19 the decommissioning process. The NRC oversees each 20 stage of the decommissioning radiological cleanup, and 21 may conduct final surveys to verify the site meets the 22 criteria that we have for our agency. Once the NRC 23 terminates the license, the bulk of the site is then 24 available to be repurposed as identified by the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
17 licensee in accordance with state and local approvals.
1 We will have the NRC continue to provide oversight for 2
the decommissioning activities through that entire 3
process.
4 Next slide. This slide shows a graph of 5
how much the NRC has already gone through 6
decommissioning. We have got over 20 years of 7
experience decommissioning over 80 particular sites 8
related to the material sites, research test reactors 9
and power reactors. Even though the Nuclear Ship 10 Savannah is a ship, it is still a part of the process 11 of what we have as an agency continue to do.
12 The United States Nuclear Regulatory 13 Commission is the only one worldwide combined that has 14 the most decommissioning experience. And we will take 15 that experience and continue to move through the 16 process through our technical review. Next slide.
17 The notification is the beginning of the 18 reactor decommissioning process.
The initial 19 notification for permanent cessation in operations and 20 permanent removal of the fuel from the reactor is 21 required to begin this process. NS Savannah provided 22 us that information initially in 1971 of their intent 23 to decommission. The fuel was removed from the 24 reactor in 1971, and a possession-only license was 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
18 issued in 1976.
1 The submittal of their Post-Shutdown 2
Decommissioning Activities Report, which is often 3
listed as a Decommissioning Report, was initially 4
submitted to the agency, December of 2006. That was 5
withdrawn and the current submittal that we have for 6
their licensing basis was updated and provided to us 7
December of 2008. That began a public meeting to have 8
the public have comments and questions associated with 9
what they call the
- PSDAR, the Post-Shutdown 10 Decommissioning Activities Report, and that public 11 meeting is similar to what we're having here today.
12 We are now at a space where the License 13 Termination Plan, which was submitted to the agency 14 October 23 of 2023. The staff is still in the midst 15 of that technical review. I will give you more 16 insight as we go through this presentation about how 17 to access that License Termination Plan and how you 18 can provide your public comments associated with it.
19 Next slide. Each nuclear power reactor 20 licensee is required to submit the License Termination 21 Plan prior or along with an application to terminate 22 their
- license, at least two years prior to 23 termination. It includes these areas: the site 24 characterization, which is used to understand the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
19 environmental and radiological conditions of the NS 1
Savannah, and to prepare for the cleanup associated 2
with it.
3 Identification and planning remaining 4
dismantling activities that is associated with the 5
decontamination and dismantling of the items 6
associated with the plant to get it to its final 7
configuration; the plans for the site remediation, 8
this describes how the NS Savannah intends to 9
remediate any residual radioactive activity so that 10 the property may be released under unrestricted 11 conditions.
12 And then a detailed plan associated with 13 the final radiation survey. This demonstrates to the 14 NRC that their radioactive materials do not exceed the 15 NRC criteria for termination of the license. Then 16 there's the updated site-specific decommissioning cost 17 estimates that is provided to us so that we can assure 18 that there is enough funding to adequately release the 19 site for decommissioning without any concerns. Then 20 there's the supplements to the environmental report.
21 This includes an evaluation of the site-specific 22 environmental impacts of decommissioning activities 23 that's associated with the decommissioning for the 24 site and what is expecting around this area. This is 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
20 to association any changes from the original submittal 1
so that we can see what is occurring in real time and 2
support us along the way for our review. The staff 3
has looked at these items as well, and we continue to 4
look at as we go through our review.
5 The NS Savannah is planning to conduct a 6
safe dismantling and decommissioning, indicating that 7
their radiological criteria for a dosage that they are 8
working towards is 15 millirem per year, so that they 9
can properly release the ship for unrestricted 10 conditions and license termination. Under the NRC's 11 decommissioning regulations, a site is considered 12 acceptable with a 25 millirem per year criteria. This 13 includes all exposure pathways, as well as ensuring 14 that any residual activity has been reduced to levels 15 as low as necessarily achievable.
16 For comparison, for those individuals that 17 typically go to the doctor. A lot of what we receive 18 from the average American is about 620 millirem per 19 year. Half of that comes from your medical elements 20 that you're dealing with. To give a closer number to 21 what we're working towards, if you're an individual 22 that lives in an older brick home, we have about 100 23 millirem per year coming from the background radiation 24 associated with it.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
21 So the goal that MARAD has associated with 1
their dose criteria meets what the NRC is asking for, 2
when you see what is typically given on a regular 3
basis to the average American. Next slide.
4 The Nuclear Ship Savannah is a unique 5
facility. It is the only floating power plant. NRC's 6
criteria for release is established with the dosage 7
that I just finished sharing with you, but we do not 8
prescribe any site-specific end use for that ship.
9 That is up to the licensee to make a determination 10 about what they would like to do. But once the NRC 11 has completed its review and terminates the license, 12 then the licensee is free to release the ship without 13 restrictions. Next slide.
14 And now that concludes my particular 15 portion. I will turn it over online to the Reactor 16 Decommissioning Inspector, Andrew Taverna. Andrew?
17 MR. TAVERNA: Thank you, Tanya. So for my 18 portion of the presentation, I will be giving a 19 general overview of how we can conduct inspections as 20 released to decommissioning. Next slide, please.
21 So for the decommissioning inspection 22 program, it is based on the licensee meeting NRC 23 regulations, license-based documents and guidance 24 documents, such as MARAD's, as appropriate. The 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
22 program office MSS will perform licensing reviews and 1
safety evaluations of those license amendments.
2 Regional inspectors like
- myself, we perform 3
documentation reviews and onsite inspections to ensure 4
that the site is following regulations and following 5
license requirements. We document the inspection and 6
then special report along with any violations that 7
might be found.
8 Enforcement actions, if any, will be taken 9
for violations in accordance with NRC enforcement 10 policy. Next slide, please.
11 So we inspect using inspection -- Chapter 12 2545, Research and Test Reaction Special Program.
13 When the site enters into the program, we perform 14 oversight and verification of decommissioning project 15 at the site. Then the decommissioning special program 16 ends when the license is terminated at the site. Next 17 slide, please.
18 The objective of the inspection program is 19 to obtain information through direct observations to 20 document, and documentation reviews, and verification 21 of licensee activities. And that is just to determine 22 whether the site is being decommissioned safely and 23 that site operations and license termination 24 activities are in conformance with applicable 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
23 regulatory requirements. And not just regulatory 1
requirements, but site licensing basis, licensee 2
commitments and --
3 Next slide, please. So our inspection is 4
very, I would say, very intrusive. Decommissioning 5
work that we inspect uses a variety of activities and 6
a review of licensee programs. We assess them by 7
looking at various activities, such as site status, 8
modifications, maintenance, surveillance, 9
transportation and radiation protection. The amounts 10 and complexity of decommissioning work, as it 11 increases so does the number of our inspections. So 12 if there's a significant safety risk, significant 13 safety activities at a site, we really want to focus 14 our attention on those as well. If there's nothing 15 really going on at the site, we reduce our onsite 16 observations.
17 Next slide, please. Special planning and 18 effort, so we kind of try to develop a sort of master 19 inspection plan in advance. We start with activities 20 that the NRC may undertake and we try and coordinate 21 that with the program office. One caveat I see with 22 decommissioning, unlike operating the reactors, 23 decommissioning schedule can slide. So as the 24 inspectors are trying to be flexible, we have a team 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
24 of inspectors so if I can't be at a certain activity 1
that I want to observe, I try to coordinate with 2
another inspector to have them go and see that 3
particular activity.
4 Again, I coordinate that with the program 5
office and then we're in communication with the site.
6 We have monthly calls with the site to understand 7
what's going on at the site. The inspection effort 8
includes reviewing licensee correspondence. We ask 9
for documents related to site activities that we're 10 going to see. We look at previous inspections, we 11 look at previous inspection reports, and also include 12 talking to other inspectors that have been at the site 13 previously. Once we finish our planning and we 14 perform the inspection and we identify any findings or 15 violations. We communicate that to the licensee 16 during an exit meeting. Again, like I said before, 17 violations are handled in the course with NRC 18 enforcement policy.
19 Next slide, please. This is my last 20 slide. So after an inspection is completed, we get 21 with NRC management and we go over what we did for the 22 inspection and we debrief them if we have any 23 violations or issues of concern. We issue an 24 inspection report within 30 to 45 days after the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
25 inspection is complete. When we exit, that's when the 1
clock starts. 30 days are for solo inspections, 45 2
days are for team inspections.
3 As you can see on the slide here, you can 4
go to that link and search the docket number provided 5
there to look at previous documents associated with 6
the NS Savannah. That concludes my portion of the 7
presentation. Ill turn it over to Erhard Koehler.
8 Thank you.
9 MS. HOOD: Thank you. Erhard.
10 MR. KOEHLER: Okay, somebody start the 11 timer. I've been told I have 15 minutes, maybe 20 if 12 I'm lucky, and that would be a world record for me.
13 I have a number of slides that are historical in 14 nature. We're going to kind of gloss over them a 15 little bit. The presentation is available on the 16 MARAD website. It would be available on the NRC 17 website. There are copies for people here in the 18 room. And so for those of you online you should be 19 able to download it.
20 Let's get to the next slide, please. This 21 presentation is not intended to duplicate material 22 that has previously been docketed. So you can see 23 that we have had a number of other meetings beginning 24 with that PSDAR back in 2009. We've had a number of 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
26 pre-submittal meetings with NRC where the presentation 1
materials are docketed. We have a couple of follow-2 ups that I'm not certain whether they're on the 3
docket, but if somebody asks I'm sure we could provide 4
them. So these are good references if you search 5
Atoms and look for those to get a sense of where 6
decommissioning progressed from 2009 to present.
7 Next. I'm going to talk a little bit 8
about the facility history and milestones, an overview 9
of our decommissioning process and the progress, and 10 in particular, as this is a national historic 11 landmark, the implications of historic preservation, 12 consultation and compliance with the National Historic 13 Preservation Act and state considerations, 14 understanding that MARAD has several possible end 15 states for the ship, but a preferred outcome of 16 preservation. And then in that how we demonstrate 17 compliance with the license termination radiological 18 criteria.
19 Next please. The mentioned ship is a 20 national historic landmark. It possesses tremendous 21 significance. It is the signature remnant of the 22 Atoms for Peace program, and I would be remiss if I 23 didn't remark that so much of what NRC does, so much 24 of what the United States does in the peaceful uses of 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
27 nuclear technology, that the world uses nuclear 1
technology peacefully stem from President Eisenhower's 2
1953 Atoms for Peace speech. And we are sitting in 3
the Eisenhower Room, named in his honor in 2009 for 4
that groundbreaking work that he did and as the 5
inspiration for this ship.
6 Savannah is a relic. It dates back, it 7
was proposed in 1955, it was authorized by an act of 8
congress in 1956, it was constructed through the 9
latter part of the 1950s and went into service in 10 1962.
11 Next. In context, it is a first 12 generation site. So you can see on this slide a 13 number of other first generation facilities. The 14 Manhattan Project Facility that began it all, U.S.S.
15 Nautilus, just a handful of years before Savannah, was 16 the first nuclear power ship to demonstrate that this 17 technology could be used to make a ship move. The 18 shipping port nuclear generating station in 19 Pennsylvania in 1957, the radioactive wand used to 20 trigger the construction of shipping port was the same 21 one used to trigger the construction of Savannah the 22 following year and other first generation sites.
23 This is really the last one left other 24 than Ledden, which is preserved as a museum in 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
28 Murmansk, a hotbed of tourism in Murmansk, Russia.
1 The U.S.S. Enterprise will be decommissioned by the 2
Navy in next decade or so. Of course, Nautilus is 3
preserved up in Groton, Connecticut. Next.
4 Savannah was an extremely successful 5
program. Do not let the myths and legends of the 6
internet confuse you or take you down any other road.
7 Savannah had specific things it was intended to 8
explore. It explored them all and answered most of 9
them. The fact that there were not second and third 10 generation nuclear ships following Savannah had more 11 to do with politics and finances than anything about 12 the Savannah program in and of itself. So it was an 13 extremely successful government RND program that was 14 ended in 1970 because the federal government had had 15 far greater needs for the money that was being 16 expended, Apollo, Vietnam, Great Society, among them.
17 Next. The reactor operating history and 18 the licensing history presented here up to the 19 possession-only license in 1976 - one thing I will say 20 is that you can see the defueling completion date in 21 December 1971, was retroactively declared to be the 22 permanent cessation of operations. In 1971 there was 23 no such thing as permanent cessation of operations.
24 In 1971 there were not decommissioning rules. There 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
29 were no regulations, there was no guidance. That 1
didn't happen until 1974. And so we actually declared 2
that date in PSDAR to be the defacto permanent 3
cessation of operations, which established that 60-4 year time frame that Tanya spoke about in her 5
presentation. And we have, of course, combined use of 6
safe store and Decon to get to this state.
7 Post-operation, Savannah was a museum. It 8
was intended to be a museum in Savannah, Georgia.
9 That did not work out. It was a museum in South 10 Carolina for 13 years. I repossessed it in 1994, and 11 I've been with it ever since. But we anticipated that 12 the ship would go into a much longer extended period 13 of safe store in 1994, that it would go into our 14 reserve fleet in Virginia, and we would basically all 15 retire before anybody did anything with it again.
16 That didn't work because 9/11 happened.
17 Although 9/11 did not have a direct nexus 18 to NS Savannah, the federal government in the wake of 19 9/11 looked at all sorts of different vulnerabilities 20 and had to address those vulnerabilities, and one of 21 them was this floating, old nuclear power plant in the 22 middle of the James River in Virginia, and so 23 Administrator Schubert in February 2002, which was 22 24 years ago, decided to decommission. We are finally 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
30 here. Next.
1 MARAD is the federal government's agent to 2
dispose of non-military ships, noncombatant ships, 3
both the ships that we own and ships from other 4
agencies. We have principal ways that we can dispose 5
of those ships, primarily ship-raking or recycling, 6
scrapping, as it's known. Sometimes we can sink a 7
ship as an artificial reef, and in rare cases, ships 8
can be preserved. The Maritime Administration has in 9
fact donated a number of vessels over the years that 10 are museum ships today, including the John Brown, 11 which is laying here at Pier 13 near Savannah; that 12 was many years ago.
13 MARAD has these three possible end states 14 for Savannah, okay? And LTP considers each of these 15 potential end states. However, from the earliest days 16 of the project, virtually from that meeting in 17 February 2002, when the administrator decided to 18 decommission, the next question was what are we going 19 to do with the ship?
20 And this was kind of a heady time for 21 historic preservation. We had the Preserve America 22 executive order in 2003, and a number of other 23 initiatives that had come out in the Clinton 24 Administration before. So historic preservation was 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
31 given great prominence. So a very early decision made 1
by MARAD was that we would seek the preservation of 2
the ship. It did not unduly influence decommissioning 3
because what we ultimately found was that those two 4
things complemented each other very well.
5 Next. As a federally owned landmark, the 6
highest standards of care under preservation law 7
apply. And so we are charged as part of this process 8
to minimize harm to the landmark. Now decommissioning 9
the dismantlement of the nuclear power plant and its 10 disposal in a low level waste repository would seem 11 the antithesis to minimizing harm. And so finding a 12 middle ground, finding an approach that combined those 13 two was the principal challenge for the project.
14 Next. We established these principals in 15 2005 and these have guided the project to the present 16 day, all right? Wherever possible, decommissioning 17 will be undertaken in a manner that fosters future 18 preservation, that we will not create additional big 19 holes in the ship to get stuff out, that if there's an 20 option to be considered, we'll take the option that 21 promotes preservation, and if there are opportunities 22 to improve the ship during decommission, we will use 23 those.
24 All of the infrastructure modifications, 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
32 and I'll talk about that, we've made to the ship over 1
the years, are intended to have some form of adaptive 2
reuse. That adaptive reuse may not occur because the 3
ship may be scrapped, and that is a distinct 4
possibility, but if the ship is preserved, the 5
structures that we built for decommissioning had a 6
second life in that next life.
7 Next. The decommissioning process is 8
primarily engaged with the nuclear power plant itself.
9 For those of you online, I'm standing at the screen 10 and I'm circling the containment vessel cutaway, which 11 is the right hand of the two cutaways on this slide.
12 And as we'll show later, we were able to preserve some 13 signature remnants of the nuclear power plant that we 14 are confident meet the license termination criteria, 15 and result, in effect, in minimizing the harm to the 16 power plant and providing the possibility for future 17 interpretation.
18 Next. The project has been ongoing since 19 2017. We have submitted the License Termination Plan 20 relatively late in the process, near the end of the 21 dismantlement phase. During phase one, which was 22 primarily engineering and planning, we also undertook 23 the infrastructure modification to the ship and we had 24 an opportunity when the ship was dry-docked to remove 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
33 some of the components that were near the skin of the 1
ship, that were most easily removed when the ship was 2
out of the water.
3 That phase completed in 2021. These are 4
some of the infrastructure improvements that were made 5
to the ship, the climate controls that allow our 6
decommissioning workers to work year-round without 7
suffering the heat and cold stress that ocean defines 8
and the need to break productivity. They worked 9
through. There were very few times where we really 10 had to break production in order to take breaks 11 because of either heat or cold.
12 Improved access and egress, facilities for 13 contractors and staff, restroom facilities so people 14 wouldn't have to leave the ship in order to go to the 15 bathroom, and then they stay on board, that increases 16 productivity. And the training center, which someday 17 might be something else, a theatre or some such thing.
18 Next.
19 These are a number of photographs, again, 20 of some of the improvements. On the upper left is the 21 portal, the horizontal portal we built into the C.V.
22 to allow for safe access and egress by workers that 23 also turned out to be an excellent material handling 24 path during dismantlement. On the lower left is the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
34 area in Cargo Hold 3 where we established a water 1
collection, a contaminated liquid collection bladder, 2
so that liquids that were trained from systems as they 3
were being dismantled were collected here and then 4
transferred off the ship to tanker trucks that went to 5
Irwin, Tennessee for processing.
6 And then on the right hand is a vertical 7
stacked photograph of the Cargo Hold 4, material 8
handling and packaging facility, where intermodal 9
containers would be at the bottom of the shot, that's 10 the tank top area of the cargo hold, and at the very 11 top the ribbed structure is the hatch that opens to 12 the weather. And so cranes outside the ship would be 13 able to lower the empty intermodal containers in and 14 raise them out. You can see the stairs in there that 15 allow the workers to access. And difficult to see at 16 the bottom of the picture is actually what we call a 17 heel control system, which is a pair of pumps 18 connected to two ballast tanks on the wings of the 19 ship, that allow us to heel the ship to one side or 20 the other or to keep it on an evenkeel, particularly 21 when we were lifting the reactor vessel to improve 22 clearances. So all very important infrastructure.
23 Next. Safety, always job one, every job 24 begins with a safety pre-job brief, work planning and 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
35 so forth. This happened to be for one of the 1
intermodal lifts. Next.
2 These were the removal of the buffer seal 3
charge pumps in the dry dock in 2019 in Philadelphia.
4 Next.
5 This was back in Baltimore where the 6
process began with removing the cupola head and the 7
shield ring. They were on top of the containment 8
vessel. So this was done in 2020 when the ship came 9
back from dry dock. It was lifted with a barge crane 10 that was located off on the starboard side of the 11 ship. The structures themselves are on the pier in 12 storage. They will be replaced on the ship at the end 13 of the project.
14 Phase two began additional 15 decommissioning, engineering and planning. The 16 detailed plans for dismantlement, for waste material 17 packaging, for transportation, for disposal and the 18 like.
19 How am I doing on time?
20 MS. HOOD: Good.
21 MR. KOEHLER: Good? Okay, all right, 22 talking fast. It's like I'm back in New York.
23 All right, we began minor component and 24 equipment removals in September of '21. This, by the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
36 way, is the contract that was awarded to NSS Joint 1
Venture, and they have been doing a bangup job. You 2
know, it's RSCS and Energy Solutions as the prime 3
members of the joint venture. So we've been very 4
fortunate to have that deep body of experience at both 5
companies bring to the decommissioning process. And 6
Energy Solutions does not have a monopoly on 7
decommissioning in the United States. I know you like 8
that, and I know some of the other guys do, but they 9
do really well. So we've been well served.
10 So this all began. We had a major change 11 in approach to how we originally intended to remove 12 structures inside containment. It was proposed in 13 November of '21, we approved it in February '22, and 14 it's really what resulted in the retention, as you 15 will see, of the neutron shield tank outer wall. We 16 surgically extracted the reactor from the center and 17 that was primarily to reduce the occupational risk 18 associated with the dismantlement and disposal of the 19 lead shielding on the outer wall of the neutron shield 20 tank.
21 Removing the lead that had been heat-22 treated and fixed to this thing was proving to be a 23 little difficult. When you can't rip and ship it's 24 difficult to do that and it all had to be done by 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
37 hand. So it was a very thoughtful change in approach 1
that was made by the contractor that was proposed at 2
MARAD, which we accepted. The end result of that is 3
a tremendous addition to the preserved components 4
inside the plant as we'll see.
5 Major components were removed throughout 6
2022. The vertical stack inside containment, 7
beginning with a control rod to rod tower; the vessel 8
had several of the internals that protruded above the 9
flat surface of the bolting ring, and then finally the 10 reactor vessel itself removed on November 8, 2022; the 11 same day my granddaughter was born. And then we 12 slipped that reactor vessel through the Howard Street 13 Tunnel in the dead of night a week later, and it went 14 out to Clive in Utah. All of our waste has been sent 15 to the repository in Clive, Utah, with the exception 16 of the water that was processed at Irwin, Tennessee.
17 The major dismantlement was completed in 18 the spring of last year; we're in a wrap-up now. We 19 went through and did a lot of additional minor 20 interference removals to get the spaces really clean 21 and ready for final status survey. Sometimes it's 22 difficult to get around waterways and things like 23 that, so we removed a lot more cable in the tail-end 24 of phase three. We are finishing it up now with the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
38 removal of grading inside the C.V. where it's being 1
replaced with fiberglass material.
2 So I have a number of photographs, if we 3
can slide through those. These are workers engaged in 4
the hand dismantlement of systems and components 5
inside. This is in the containment vessel in this 6
series of shots. This is all in the containment 7
vessel on the first level inside the portal.
8 Next. This is material handling coming 9
out of the portal on the upper left, using that with 10 hand trucks, and then receiving the material in Cargo 11 Hold 4 in the lower two shots. There's a high reach-12 down on the bottom, which can go up one deck, pick up 13 the waste material and bring it down for loading into 14 the IMs in the intermodals in the lower right photo.
15 Next.
- Again, packaging into the 16 intermodals, this is work taking place inside Cargo 17 Hold 4. It was very important to us, the license site 18 boundary for NS Savannah is the ship's perimeter, 19 okay? And so unlike a land-based site where there's 20 quite a bit of property where you can do a number of 21 different things, or you have auxiliary buildings that 22 are cleared out and can be repurposed for other 23 things, we didn't have the luxury of space. We only 24 had the internal volume of the ship.
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39 Anything that would happen off the ship 1
would be very expensive. You can find a mobile 2
license, you can do work off the ship, you can come in 3
with that type of a license. However, you have to 4
find somebody who is willing to rent you the land to 5
do that. You have to ensure that you don't schmutz it 6
up and you have to clean it up at the end. And if you 7
do it in a shipyard, lord forbid, because that's the 8
most expensive place in the world to do work, is in a 9
shipyard.
10 So we found that - I have five minutes 11 left, she is telling me, wow. Is that five minutes to 12 15 or 20?
13 MS. HOOD: To 20.
14 MR. KOEHLER: Okay, so we did it all 15 inside. Next, next, next. Okay, more cutting up, 16 next. Again, working safely, proper protective 17 equipment going on. Next. Truck crane on the pier to 18 lift the intermodals. Next, load them on the trucks.
19 You will get a copy of all this. There's a video down 20 at Cargo Hold 4. The barge cranes were used for the 21 heavy lifts out of the containment vessel. This is 22 control rod drive tower on the upper left, same 23 photograph with this crane. This is now engaged to 24 work over on the Francis Scott Key Bridge.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
40 This is the reactor removal in November of 1
2022. We are now in phase three. We submitted the 2
LTP. We are rolling into the final status survey 3
program. We are working towards coordinating a 4
schedule for confirmatory service by Oakridge in the 5
summer of 2024. We continue to have our monthly 6
status meetings with the NRC.
7 Next. The end state condition. Our 8
consultation under the NHPA was initiated in 2018. We 9
have what's called a programmatic agreement. The NRC 10 is one of the parties to the programmatic agreement.
11 That was signed in March of 2023, which was some 12 months before we submitted the LTP.
13 I would like to go on the record as saying 14 that the federal agency, in my experience, most 15 interested in preservation of NS Savannah outside of 16 MARAD itself, has been the United States Nuclear 17 Regulatory Commission. And I really want to thank NRC 18 for its deliberative approach to this, the serious 19 nature of it, and the appreciation of NS Savannah as 20 a shared legacy because it was the atomic energy 21 commission forerunner of the NRC that was the joint 22 program partner with the Maritime Administration that 23 created this ship. So it's tremendously appreciated 24 how much the NRC cares for this, just as we do.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
41 So meeting Minimized Harm was using the 1
License Termination
- criteria, the radiological 2
criteria for release, and determining this plant 3
operated very cleanly. If there were components that 4
we're going to be below the release criteria that we 5
could preserve, seek their preservation.
6 Next. Whatever we do, scrapping, reefing, 7
preservation, preservation implications with the Toxic 8
Substances Control Act, there is PCBs on the ship, the 9
United States Environmental Protection Agency is 10 engaged in anything we will do. This is the principal 11 reason why we adopted the 15 millirem standard that 12 the EPA likes to use. We can debate that, you know, 13 whether it's appropriate, but they like to use it, and 14 we're using it because we don't want to have conflict 15 with the EPA after the license is terminated.
16 Next. So where are we today? Tanya 17 talked about background radiation in the United 18 States. This ship protects us from lots of background 19 radiation. You are really receiving less exposure 20 inside the ship than you would get once you leave that 21 ship, and that is from ground sources, waterborne 22 sources, cosmic sources and background radiation. For 23 years, for years, when the ship was a museum, when the 24 ship was operating the reactor was operational, the 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
42 exposure to passengers in this room and all the other 1
spaces on this ship, was effectively zero. They 2
didn't wear -- okay? And nothing changed after the 3
plant ceased operating, and nothing has changed with 4
the plant being dismantled and removed. So really, 5
our challenge is to demonstrate of what remains inside 6
the C.V., where do we stand?
7 Next.
So
- again, we already meet 8
unrestricted release criteria than most other places.
9 Implicit in the release criteria is the possibility 10 that some material remains behind. And our challenge 11 is to demonstrate.
12 So next. Our end state is that we have 13 some signature components remain.
14 Next, we looked at these three scenarios.
15 We looked at the people that would be engaged in these 16 three scenarios. We looked at the preservation 17 scenario, the docent that's in the C.V. - counting 18 down, how much time?
19 MS. HOOD: You have four slides, left, go, 20 go, go.
21 MR. KOEHLER: What does the docent who 22 stands in the containment vessel for 250 days a year 23 get, plus the zero. The ship raking, the person 24 that's cutting up the plant after it goes to Texas to 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
43 be scrapped with its residual contamination. We use 1
extraordinarily conservative numbers. We ridiculously 2
over-expose the workers that were doing that work, and 3
we demonstrate that in dismantling that remaining 4
residual radioactive material, the worker is not 5
exposed beyond the 15 millirem per year limit.
6 In the reefing
- scenario, which is 7
plausible, but less likely, by statute, anybody can 8
ask and we can give a ship to be reefed. We have 9
policies that say we don't do ships that are of this 10 vintage because of the presence of PCBs. That doesn't 11 prevent somebody from wanting to remove all the PCBs.
12 It doesn't prevent the power of a lone congressman 13 from New Jersey, you know, who might want to dive on 14 it. And so we had to at least consider it.
15 We went the extra mile. The purpose of 16 artificial reefs is primarily to support commercial 17 fishing. It is not for sport diving. And so we came 18 up with a residential fisherman scenario to kind of 19 parallel the residential farmer which is not 20 appropriate to Savannah. And we demonstrate that in 21 the reefing scenario, again, we meet the radiological 22 release criteria.
23 Next. All right, couple last pictures, I 24 think. These are some of the dismantlement shots.
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44 This is before and after. So this is before, this is 1
after. Next.
2 Again, before and after. You can see the 3
state of the spaces virtually bare steel.
4 Next. And this is underneath the 5
containment vessel, and after, virtually bare steel.
6 Just the cat walk, some of the temporary lights and so 7
forth.
8 Next. This is inside containment before, 9
including the asbestos flagging that's now gone.
10 Next. Clean steel. All right, next.
11 Last slide, I think, next to last slide.
12 So what we have, what have we got left? We have 13 something that doesn't exist anywhere else in the 14 world. We have the signature components of a nuclear 15 power plant in their native state capable of being 16 released and capable of visitation and interpretation 17 in the future.
18 If that doesn't sell the ship, I don't 19 know what will. If the ship survives, this is a 20 remarkable thing that we've done. If the ship doesn't 21 survive, we should at least get an award. So again, 22 nowhere else in the world can you ever see this, all 23 right? Because on the Nautilus it's hidden. On the 24 Lennon it's hidden, and everywhere else that it might 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
45 exist it's still in service. I believe that's my last 1
slide. Thank you.
2 MS. HOOD: So for those that are 3
listening, we are conscious of time because this 4
public meeting is for the public. We want to give you 5
enough information so that you can get an idea of 6
what's happening with what we're doing with the 7
License Termination Plan. What's happening with the 8
type of review, insight about the ship, so that your 9
comments that you'll provide will be informed. We 10 also want to ensure that we give you enough time to 11 ask your comments and questions when we get to that 12 portion of the meeting.
13 But before we get there, I still have 14 another presentation. So to go over the License 15 Termination Plan with you, as previously stated, the 16 license termination submittal was submitted to the NRC 17 October 23, 2023. It is currently available at the 18 NRC's Agency Documents Assessment and Management 19 System. We had that as an acronym ADAMS.
20 You can locate that at the Nuclear 21 Regulatory Commissions website. When you go to the 22 website, I'd like for you to select at the top tab 23 Document Library. That will take you to the public 24 ADAMS. There you can look up the accession number 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
46 associated with the License Termination Plan as 1
ML23298A041. The NRC has already done the acceptance 2
review of this submittal. That is located under 3
accession number ML23352A371.
4 For those that do not have access to 5
ADAMS, you have the opportunity to give us a call.
6 There's a 1-800 number: 1-800-397-4209. There is also 7
a local 301 number. And this information is available 8
for you with the slides that are associated with this 9
public meeting schedule. The slide presentation that 10 we are currently showing now as a slide presentation 11 that was provided to you by the licensee are on that 12 meeting schedule. You can also email us at PDR, Papa-13 Delta-Romeo, at NRC.gov.
14 There is a hearing opportunity available 15 with this license submittal. It closes May 28, 2024.
16 The comment period, which also supports us being here 17 giving you more insight associated with this review, 18 closes June 3, 2024.
19 Next
- slide, please.
The License 20 Termination process is an activity that describes what 21 the NRC is reviewing regarding the performance of a 22 final status survey that demonstrates to the licensee 23 the criteria that the licensee has met the NRC's 24 criteria for decommissioning. The final status survey 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
47 consists of scans and surveys, direct measurements and 1
physical sample collections and analysis.
2 The final status surveys are done to 3
demonstrate to the NRC that residual radioactive 4
material and the facilities attributable to past 5
license conditions do not exceed the NRC's criteria.
6 You have already heard from the license and 7
information has been provided by Erhard that this 8
plant, when it was running, was already below our 9
current criteria and what they are licensing to for 10 their projection is the 15 millirem per year which is 11 EPA's criteria, which is still below the NRC's quite 12 specific criteria.
13 The NRC staff reviews the final status 14 survey design as part of the License Termination Plan 15 review, and to determine whether the survey design is 16 adequate for demonstrating compliance with the 17 radiological criteria for license termination. The 18 final status survey results are compiled in a final 19 status survey report that the NRC used and compares to 20 the NRC's confirmatory survey. That is an independent 21 survey that the NRC does for our compliance measures.
22 When the license is terminated, if it is terminated, 23 and it will do so when it meets the site release 24 criteria that we have.
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48 Next slide. For those that are needing 1
access to the information associated with the license 2
termination plan, you can find that information on the 3
NRC web by going to the policy ADAMS that I stated 4
initially. We have also placed this information 5
inside of the federal registered notice. That notice 6
can be accessed on Regulations.gov. You can go there 7
and place the docket number in the search field: NRC-8 2024-0060. We published the information in the 9
federal register on April 3, 2024, and you will see in 10 there where you have the opportunity as the public to 11 place your comments. Those comments are due to the 12 NRC by June 3, 2024.
13 Next slide, please. And now we are at the 14 comment and question portion and we've given enough 15 time for the public to ask your questions. We will 16 start with any questions that we have that are in the 17 room, and then we will move online where Lynn Ronewicz 18 will run the discussion points for the public meeting 19 and give any insights associated with that.
20 I'm going to turn the meeting over to 21 Lynn. She will run the next portion of this. Thank 22 you for being here at this time. Lynn?
23 MS. RONEWICZ: Thank you. As Tanya said, 24 we'll now go to questions or comments within the scope 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
49 of this meeting. We are first going to ask those 1
joining us in person if they have any questions for 2
the NRC staff and then we will go to the virtual 3
attendees. I will call on you by name in order of 4
hands raised.
5 Please remember to speak loudly and 6
clearly, stating your name first. And if you are 7
affiliated with any entity, please state that entity.
8 If you dialed in by phone, please raise your hand by 9
pressing star-five and then once called on, press 10 star-six to unmute yourself.
11 For accessibility purposes, you may turn 12 on the closed captioning for this meeting by selecting 13 the three dots on the top of your screen where it says 14 More. From the dropdown menu, depending on your 15 version of Microsoft Teams, you can select Language 16 and Speech or accessibility to turn on live captions.
17 Again, please keep your microphones muted unless you 18 are speaking.
19 So at this time we are first going to go 20 in the room. I see hands raised, but first we're 21 going to go to those in person to ask if they have any 22 questions or comments in the room before we go to 23 online.
24 MS. HOOD: There are no hands being raised 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
50 in the room at this time, Lynn. You can begin with 1
those that are online.
2 MS. RONEWICZ: Okay, so it looks like 3
David Allard. Please go ahead with your question or 4
comment.
5 MR. ALLARD: Hi folks, David Allard. I'm 6
the vice-chair of the Three-Mile-Island Unit Two 7
decommissioning, vice-chair of the Community Advisory 8
Panel for decommissioning CMY Unit Two. Tanya, nice 9
job, Andrew, Erhard, really good job there with you 10 here. Just a quick question regarding the license.
11 Andrew mentioned that the termination is 12 under research
- reactor, research test reactor 13 protocol. Erhard, you mentioned that it was a power 14 reactor, which I guess technically the reactor was a 15 power reactor; for a ship, very unique. Just 16 wondering what the decision was, and I think I know 17 the answer, but what the decision was for going the 18 research test reactor route.
19 MS. HOOD: So thank you for the question.
20 One of the reasons why the NRC initially designated it 21 as a research test reactor is because at the time when 22 the Atomic Energy Commission was partnering with the 23 government to put the ship together, it was considered 24 a test reactor even though it has actively had a 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
51 pressurized water reactor associated with it. So that 1
was to give us an idea as an agency, how we can look 2
at it, get some determinations, but once we made that 3
as a legacy element, we let that remain, the 4
parameters associated with the inspection is what was 5
already prepared and shared with you in the 6
presentation that Andrew Taverna has. We still do a 7
quality inspection associated with it even though it 8
is currently on paper labeled as a research test 9
reactor. We were aware of what type of reactor was 10 located on the ship when it was active. Hopefully 11 that supports your response.
12 MR. ALLARD: Great, thanks. One quick 13 follow-up question. Regarding Erhard going for the 15 14 millrem versus the 25, we could talk about that 15 offline, but by going to 15 millirem, and this is 16 really a question for the NRC, do you consider that 15 17 millrem basically satisfying the ALARA requirement for 18 the 25 millirem plus ALARA by going through 15 19 millirem criteria. Thanks.
20 MR. DIMITRIADIS: Hey Dave, this is Tony 21 Dimitriadis, the branch chief.
22 MR. ALLARD: Hi Tony.
23 MR. DIMITRIADIS: How are you? Good, good 24 question. If you consider the 15 millirem, so you 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
52 know the regulatory limit for us is 25 millirem plus 1
ALARA. So for MARAD to go to 15 is well within the 2
ALARA we believe.
3 MR. ALLARD: Okay, thanks. Thanks, Tony, 4
cheers. Thank you, folks.
5 MS. RONEWICZ: Thank you, and we're 6
waiting for any other hands raised. Any other 7
additional questions or comments.
8 MS. RONEWICZ: So far no hands raised.
9 Did anybody in the room have anything at all or 10 nothing at all in the room?
11 MS. HOOD: Nothing at all in the room at 12 this time.
13 MR. FLETCHER: I just have a question.
14 I'm not sure of the answer, but I was reading that in 15 like a 2013 article, it said the ship is operating on 16 a $2 million budget. Do you have any sense of how 17 that would - I assume it's changed, but how it would 18 change further after the License Termination Plan?
19 MS. HOOD: That's a question for you to 20 answer.
21 MR. KOEHLER: Okay, money. All right, 22 Chris? Oh yeah, you need to state your name.
23 MR. FLETCHER: I'm Jack Fletcher.
24 MR. KOEHLER: Jack Fletcher, okay. So 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
53 Jack, the Savannah for its entire history, with the 1
exception of the brief interlude when it was a museum 2
in South Carolina, was been on the federal budget.
3 Our baseline services budget today is about $3 million 4
a year; that's what we ask for. That covers the cost 5
of the labors facility, it covers the cost of our 6
personnel to do the basic minimum standards of keeping 7
the ship safe at the berth. The ship is the primary 8
safety boundary element of the nuclear power plant, so 9
keeping it safe and secure and in good mental 10 condition is, we believe, we define as an element of 11 the license activities. And keeping the lights on, 12 the utility cost, and so on and so forth.
13 Ironically enough, back in the 1960s, the 14 budget for the ship was about $3 million a year. So 15 we think that that's pretty good, you know? It's not 16 too much off of inflation. Of course, we're not 17 sailing around the world anymore. That amount of 18 money is for a federal ship-keeping staff and the 19 federal government keeping the lights on and so on and 20 so forth.
21 If the ship goes into a preservation 22 scenario, there are a number of different ways that 23 that number might come down. It depends on how an 24 entity would staff the ship. Usually there's quite a 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
54 few volunteers and far fewer paid staff. They might 1
not have to pay a lease, a full commercial-rate lease 2
for the pier. We're probably not going to get much of 3
a break on the electricity though.
4 So the budget could down by as much as 5
half depending on different scenarios for some 6
alternate user, but at the present time we're at about 7
3 million a year.
8 MR. TABAKOV: And I from NRC -
9 MS. HOOD: Emil, say your name.
10 MR. TABAKOV: Oh, Emil Tabakov. I'm the 11 financial analyst, and that is the prediction right 12 now for the next three years, about that much. So we 13 found it reasonable and we did a cost estimate that we 14 need to make sure that they can be --
15 MR. KOEHLER: Thank you.
16 MS. RONEWICZ: Okay, we're going back 17 online to see does anybody have any questions or 18 comments online? If so, please raise your hand. John 19 Kelly, please go ahead. John Kelly, you can. Are you 20 able to unmute yourself?
21 MR. KELLY: John Kelly, former president.
22 I was just curious how the NRC be engaged. Is it from 23 MARAD or is this -
24 MS. HOOD: Can you repeat the question?
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55 We did not understand it.
1 MR. KELLY: Yes. So the NRC trying to be 2
license termination reviews, is that being funded by 3
MARAD or is that within the NRC's budget itself?
4 MS. HOOD: It's a combination question.
5 The Nuclear Regulatory Commission receives its budget 6
from Congress. Our licensees pay fees associated with 7
the review of what the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 8
does. At that time, when we get budgeted, our budget 9
comes from Congress, but the licensee does pay fees 10 that go into the bucket that reimburses elements of 11 what the NRC gets paid. Does that help support you?
12 MR. KOEHLER: I think I can offer a 13 follow-up.
14 MR. FLETCHER: So the Department of 15 Transportation -
16 MR. KOEHLER: John?
17 MR. FLETCHER: Yes.
18 MR. KOEHLER: John, this is Erhard. I can 19 add to that slightly. So those of you who are feds or 20 former feds, or appreciate federal budgeting, know 21 that there's this thing called the Anti-Deficiency 22 Act. And the Anti-Deficiency Act generally holds that 23 one federal agency will not pay another federal agency 24 for services.
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56 Well, back in around the middle 2000s, the 1
Department of Energy had this little thing going on 2
called Yucca Mountain. That was supposed to be 3
licensed by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and 4
that was consuming an awful lot of the NRC's budget.
5 So the Energy Policy Act of 2005 introduced this 6
little tweak that said federal licensees will now pay 7
fees for NRC inspections. We don't care what the 8
Anti-Deficiency Act says. You're going to pay fees.
9 And I think that was really supposed to be 10 for the DOE, but it wound up catching us and a few 11 others as well. So MARAD has been paying fees since 12 2005, and believe me, I've had to explain that to more 13 than a few budget officers over the years. This is 14 what the law says. So yes, we do pay fees and we're 15 very proud to do so.
16 MS. HOOD: Thank you, Erhard. Appreciate 17 that, Erhard. John, does that support your response?
18 MS. RONEWICZ: Okay, we're waiting for any 19 other hands raised online, and of course, if anybody 20 else has anything in the room, feel free to speak up.
21 MS. HOOD: There are no other questions in 22 the room.
23 MS. RONEWICZ: Okay, no hands raised, but 24 why don't we give it just a few more seconds or so 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
57 just to see if anybody has any questions before I turn 1
it back over to you, Tanya, to close it out. So far 2
no hands raised. It looks like we have no other 3
questions or comments, Tanya.
4 MS. HOOD: Thank you so much for that, 5
Lynn.
6 And with that, we want to say thank you.
7 Thank you so much for participating in this public 8
meeting related to the comments associated with 9
License Termination Plan for the Nuclear Ship 10 Savannah. I will now turn the meeting over to Jane 11 Marshall for our closing remarks.
12 MS. MARSHALL: Thank you, Tanya. So I get 13 the pleasure of both opening and closing the meeting 14 this evening. I'd like to thank you for taking your 15 time to join us here onboard the ship whether in-16 person or virtually this evening. Thanks for the 17 questions and the discussion. I was really pleased to 18 hear as many historians as are online and the 19 preservation aspect with the ship. Again, as Tanya 20 mentioned, we invite you to provide your comments 21 online on this topic, or if you have other questions 22 you can also contact the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 23 staff.
24 With that, the meeting is adjourned.
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58 Thank you.
1 MS. HOOD: There's one more thing. We 2
will adjourn shortly. But I want to give an 3
opportunity to ensure that if there's any final 4
comments associated with what the court reporter 5
needs, and to let those of the public know that there 6
is a feedback form that sis available for this 7
meeting. It will more likely show up like 7:35 8
because it is scheduled to show up at the end of the 9
time period associated with this meeting. You can go 10 to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission where you went to 11 register. You will see under the meeting feedback 12 form there will be a link. In that link you can get 13 your comments about this meeting. For the comments 14 associated with License Termination Plan, you have to 15 go to Regulations.gov to provide your comments there.
16 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went 17 off the record at 7:11 p.m.)
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