ML20136B440
| ML20136B440 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | 05000471 |
| Issue date: | 08/27/1979 |
| From: | Callihan A, Cole R, Goodhope A Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 7909050516 | |
| Download: ML20136B440 (137) | |
Text
{{#Wiki_filter:" _ , - . - - .,- . _ . _ _ . . . . _ . _ . . ._ .j^ Recorcs pacilities Branch (2) 016 Phil - NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMIS$10N O s . s - IN THE MATTER OF: EOSTON EDISON COMPANY, et al , (Pilgrin Nucinar Ganarating Unit "o. 2 Q Place - Plymouth, Massachusetts O* ~ 11, E -11,/90 2 August 27, 1979 l i
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Telephone-(202)347-3700 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS,INC. OffiaalReporters 444 North Capitol Street Woshington, D.C. 2000I l l NATIONWIDE COVERAGE .OAll -
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j 11,353 CRG348 1 UliITED STATES Of IL . IWA LTZER REELON 2 NUCLEAR REC 1LA'.CRI C M"IS 3IC;I
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mm S' - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - P 4 In the utstter of; 5 BCSTON EDISON COMPMiY, .et al Occket No. 50-471 6 (Pilgrim Nuclear Generating Etation, . Unit No. 2) - , 7 3 i PlymouE, ~.iemoria.1 ihli ! 9
?:.i mout:_ . Mascachus;tt.3 l Monday, 27 august 1_79 11 The hearing in the abon-e ::1.tiv ta .ter -'c.c 1
recorc/vad, pursuant to adjorrnmint, a. .:30 p.n. n 13 BEHORE: ls j j
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ANDREW C. GCCDlIOPE, ,Ecq.. , Chaindtii 15 DR.RICIIARD F. COLE, Menaer . 16 DR. DIXON CALLIHAM, Maier 17 3pp3gggggg I8 GERALD II. LEMALD, Eng., Rcpta & (; ray, 22S Franklin 3breen, Boat:on Sladnitchusett:.; and 19' DALE G. STOCDLEY, Esq. , ac1 ton Edinen Ccmpa ny, . Legal Dopt., 000 Boy:. cts'.n Shreat '3c.1.c n . 20 Manuachusetta; on behald of th& Applican". l
- 21 MIC11AEL B. ME'IER, Esq.
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i 11,355 l 4 i ldavid i! _P _2. 0_ C._ 2 2__ _D _I_ .;_* .r s_ 3 a t 2 CHAIRMAN GOODHCPE: This is 1 resumption of the L!vidl I h trka 1 3 , hearinga in the matter of Boston Edisca Ccmpany, et al., 8 I O 4 Pilgria Nuclear Generating Station Unit Nc. 2. { l
$ i Counsel, please state your appearances.
6 MR. IEfALD: "fes, Mr. Chairwin. I 7 My naMe is Gerald H. Levair. The address 1.3 Ropes d 8 Gray, 225 Frf.nklin Street, Boston, Manaacht:.s atts. And f i 9 together with Mr. Dale G. Steedley to my right, whc :.3 l l 10 anziatgat ceneral counsel for Benten f5isc CodFany, P30 l 11 Boyla sn Street, Dcstca, Mascachusetts, represent' the tpplica.Y]. i 12 f MR. M3YER: Michael B. Mey':r, Ad tent Attorney j t 13 General; with n.e is Francic Wright, also an assictant at orne9 t 4 0)
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g general. Our office address is One Aahnurtor. Place, 19th ( g ( ficor, Boston, Mass., appearing for the Ccmmonweath of Il
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g tl. MR. SMITH: Barry Smith, ruprecenting tho M1.C 1
.g ? staff. My address is Washingten, D. C.
gg 7 MR. CL2ETON: Alan R. CloeLon, Franklin, ;tasachusch appearing pro se. 20 g CHAIRMAN GCCDEOPE: All richt, gentlen n, hare dc f p we start? i i g Itn. LEUALD: Mr. Chari.T An, 7 -- t '? had agraad I upon the first witness who was to So :1r . Bars :c.7, trno taa i e 24 4 the absent an=her of the applicant'c panal en the need for ha as c i l l
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' s-I Q Mr. 3arstow, I chou ycn a d.cc ;ncin slu.:n bra Man i ;
l 3 carkad a3 Applicant's Exhi. bit 19, .nd th;.1;cntpis.tc haa::s the favid3: 4 caption of this .nso, and it's entitiM ":.p;1:.cnnc.' ; F.rrisd _ p/ v 5 Supplanental Tatreimony on Need for Pi .grir.! 2. r-t d And I ask if you can idratiry :. ccpy of ha 7 doenncnt tha;. I'va show:. you. l I 3 i
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14 And .htn tha .1ai n testimorty runc o1 pr. Jo .'.0 t!'rcuch 13. - 1 4 4 ta ,. Y:'cuzu *:le.
. I guass ic air a p.ua into page 15.
i i 4 G lic 1, are there an -r chc.aget c: cc: actions : hat vcu ' 4 tG - 7 t wou :.d 1. .i.e .:o mako 2.n vou-- te.cti.mv n.. J.t ia incorporat.1.i. J.a i 17 - ! i. g N O6 i 18 i ' 1 i A '.'.* 0 r ! hd70 10 chang.M to : ) -J' N . . 10 , ; i i C dcu, 15 th3 tasti:**Crff 0.U :. ;, a p g h t :t; in iq:plican;' c 1
- Zy.hibit 13 it a ini carract to t h hv.
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11,353 I . . . I. e t. us.tnesses cerc .n., e _, , ar _s ;.nal.,ty on j b rr.a::.n:.ng pane F.r. Baratou's appearanco itero, c .nc:c: we als la;c rc ainin3 (
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sec tica. O 4 It has bean incorporat2d '.n t a transcript as if . l 1 i 5 - read. , G 4 Cl!A!!1P.AN GCCDIICE: Any ch i-actaan? i i 7 (Nogatin3 resconse. i i 8
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For the recori, it'c rect.t;;d again, if ONra's t 9 3 J.Vuf S.nt' C '.;Q S t '.cn Cn 2.C. , 10 > 3Y IG. LEMED : 11 unuru.e v ;ur 1 Mr. iiurstou Oculd : M . . ' " 19
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- h 14 A Yes. My testjsany inls rd t.n capacit" a.sr ects of tn2 New England Load and Capact. y ac.;crt: '1EFOu s ra'. inh'.lir.)
15 an-1 criteria, and the iT2 POL atudi.:.s r a:f..ec*: ng cos , varuus . i ro12 ability for lead growth uncertairui . a Q Mr. Ba/stcW, I cr.cn you . . n '; a; a doctetla':, ,
- uhich n the # ce of it is enticis2d ' 'c/c.' Zng 2.an.i L. ;'.d nntA 1G l
Ca_ucity I.cport," and 1:elow the.t giria d:e St. :ca 197'i '.359.
~ oi And tr.en belou on the ic:Ithand co.r.ar, 1: hac Apr L.1, 19 7 ') .
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r. i, a 11,359 ; i this report, I beliava, as Applicard ::hibit 20-C. I; appsar::; , da = 2
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- 4. I on the transcript as Applicant's "ahi~ ic O-3, and has the !
3 date of July 13, 1979. O- 4 That is, it appears in th.a inde.:c nortion cf t!.e g 5 transcript. j I 8 Mr. Meyer did examine in :his dccument with some 7 02 the witnesses, and Mr. Meyar's ref tran.:a was with the e i 8 raf er. :.cs to the dccu= ant as we thcught i.: wa.! marked. \ i 9 And I :;ould just like to ec'. ':ht.c tha'; co.er acticn j i. 10 :;ight be netad or. t.ta rrcerd. 3
~~ I OUAIMIJ21 GCOLiiCP3: W.u; u 3;-3" m ra e 'iG-h?
tt gg JR. Im'A'_D : 2C-b :1 .. 7 M d 10 r,ac!: -- tnaro g cere three documenta cfi'.ared: 20 ..;-.3 c ? .*ar nd , ediich ua:3 tha (' .
;g 6 S3 POL fcra:as: fcr T.ha Ww Engluf li ~ 3-7 h and 3. dormaan:
.a entitled "The R3 port of !:hs :lEPOL Lor.d L' encast Ts.G. force on f 13 I'ew E.ule.nd >Iodal uns 2 0-3.
And .th2 document I just u.a:a es:f aranca c. thra 17 0 . I "Ed " 13
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tha tran ,cript that corraction cou'.d he te.dz '.:o rs:ilac . ..:a 3 , i 1 4 <shibits by the nua. born ce T. have juut ..tatad. 61 i
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!Li CEAI1EIAN GCCDEOPE: Do v.ou ca7s that datr? :
lj i b~)Iavidf, w 2 M2. IEALD: I do ha'.a that pa?a. .t's pago 3#[ 10, G . It's the - cind it's th2 t cs.eri.;t dated,' ;1ednesday , 1 O c, July 13, 1979. 5 CHAIRMAN GOOCEOPE: And2 this i.s ^he indec ca" 6 a2:hihita that you unnt cerr.=.cted. Is tM.t .:::rrect? ; t t
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7a MR. L5,WALD: Yw , th .i.:. n.. . I I a ecnductec, va: c.:tSt cted lita thz sedb: as a.: uncr -hco id .u . i t, r g '}. >**gg
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!!n. I,inlALD: It nG9c.?.rs 9.cror. mal' cn pt.Fa -- On gg the .:'.de:: page of the tra .aer2.pt as o : 0'.m i:t 2.
I 20 i MR. CALL'l*HAN: It appw.:3 M -d:at? } r ; t yl MR. L2*TALD: 20-C appisar.2 1/c:e e"actly as a rapor' .:n i t 2, l the icct caat; s u 20-C 2hocid 'ce 'i a r., -
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i I 2 - DR, COLE : Mr. Lewald, So 7:u hvia .m extra 00py
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3 cf tha Load & Capacity report? O / 4 MR. L3n3ID: I hava a ccpy. 4 5 on co72: Do you have anctuar cas? 4 6 MR. LENALDt I havs one if yoc aned t:Wo. ,- 7 0 L CO L3 2- Th: ink you, Hr. Iwtid. O MR, LEN10: It -- it 39_:05:2 r.fith 2. du psr lel 3 c0vsr thin that copy reflset.3. 10 y if 12 l 13 t 14 tEd 3 3g nLa f.'.la s 16 1 17 ,. 18 19 I 20 t 21
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i I 62 mpb dR. LINALD: I uava no furtnur questions of tno flws davi- l 1 agabl witcoss, and tau witness i s available dor croas-exsi.u.aation . 3 CHAIR E GOOD 110PE: cir. Meyer.
/ 4 MR. HEYER: Thank you, sir.
5 CROSS-E.WIIdATIod 6 BY MR. MEYER: 7 Q Mr.11arstow, could I ask you first to turn to 8 pags 13 of yoar tastimony, plasse, sir?
'9 A I hava it.
10 Q On page 13, starting on lico ') and going dcun to . Il line 15 you nave a r.aferanca to tu.a fact .nat taa ex3cucav.s 12 ceraittee nas con establisted oujectiv* capaci.ities for 13 pcuer years after tha 1984 '85 pcwor year, in that rign:? O 14 A That's corract. 15 Q Is that still correct as of tocay, sir? 16 A Ycs, it is. 17 Q co you nave an expacted by or cent.n at vaica la pcir.t you hava a bast estin.ats for waan these objectiva is capOiliti-23 are going to ha act er ira 11kel-/ to be su d
- 20. A I can' t give an estimata on t.aun tasy'll ce set.
21 I can say that the planaing cccmittee has told .2e inat tucy -~ 22 and at the r2 quest of the executive connitteo -- taar. tacy
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7, g- [. 11,254 i l 1 I::pc 3 _ years no througn '34 8 8'i which hev-2 baun 2.ui . w ca wore t.tc 24 s. 2 cu:rbars :iat b7 the wecutive ecmcitte.? , 3 A My namory is around Ja.:e el -- I haia's it uaa O 4 June, 1976. 5 Q _ Do you hava a. docuc.:.nt 2... ' . ; r;. tnat wac1d 6 rafresh y:ur recory, sir?
. 7 h 1 thic.% i da, 12 2 caa ;.;: vf has la ca :t.
S Pause.' 9 A Yaa , it waa at thei.: ue.v.ini, o f Cerm 2 *ta, E 76. 10 Q p .+nd is it, a fair OL t: ua. e ;. ir , 5 v.t caca cr. 11 ; objectiva c.ipanil.ity i:: sut ice a hr.: .r f aar s c la no;. 12 , chacged : 2:;o. pent!.r?
?
13 A The agressmat gf.vas tn ra .ns.unc.ent .:c:c2:.htau tua 14 optica of revic4ing ones a year v.n cMj.ec':ica cc.pabiliti:;n is that nava baon establichsd., And :.t .:he him thay sah th!c 16 they -- for ths year-3 Af ter -- or -ho po..r.: yse accincir:i . t. 17 ; licNMr, l'JG1, thay isaicetud se:ro provini.e.; m:.c usu .c 1 13 l' maka rem att.c natic adinst=enta in t .a sm a: L:.o 2: tt.o - 19 ' ic.fga nucian: units clier.ced r.huir c ent. ;;.e. C;nor en:.n t rc:, 20 there'c co necd for ihn:n to maka an-/ I' urn:. r au , ;.s t:..:.uit. l 3 0 2c,i puntiaq asi:'.a for (mn cm. set .;;cca .ue :ct:. .1
, adjustants 2.at start 12 li 31 2r c . asps in in-sorvicca ans i
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A I'm not 100 parcant certain of tnat, wiustr.ar i.e 3 w.is done. Thora certainly has been no caanga in an.i iaa O 4 affectsd by the schedula of Ja2e '76. I'm act surc if .nora 5 was any procedent prior to that. 6 Q A Jittla further dcwa tr.c p ge on page '.3 of y,ur 7 tachiac::7, cir, you incicata that - you ruko an ecil.:.ab.2 of 20tura r..c e. 7-2 lavals to ~.wat r 311acility :::.f:.ur . a tna 9 g 2r:.: 1 s Mrr.i. 9 vLth c:.c
- 35
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'3 J. That vna a rot.gh as ti.natu b2.aoc. on c J .::: Adda 16 tnat in in ':he curren: '.9 79 E::hibit '.'0-C , as it uas df. ace.:icac 17 ' a :'eu 1:r+3n :s agc. Jut it ua.s not a ;;ie:cuu study OJ -2.4 t.
I 16 It wa ; j'ta.: usi.ig that schadcla, a ficQ-cr11n 2 of 10 crit.9 at j 19 stodaling ths.t icad capacity raport. a 20 3
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21 Lat :es first ask. ycu, sir, jo 2 in;icstad E x.: 22 ' starting 91tn 1001 t.lare in pr0visJ.cn nr a.uiomatio wj cu .- f, A. l 23 . w. a h 4 c.c . 32nr'In inr7:ns ::ac .c ' pon shar g. .s k t a . .;..in ; :: I 24 i d...-.a~,'.4.,,- d . ... u , * .,. .' .. .'. : .. c r ". . . r_
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11,356 - I mpb3 Q And is that a aeries of sdfu2 nasta contaiand i..~. r' 1 ccr.e cc cmittaas of the c tacutiva camstht.va -- striha taa'; -- (s , 3 containal in scas minuc as of the a:ncutiva ccmittas's I'. ot-
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5 A The adjustment [4? 5 g .'aa,
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7 A Yas, sir, thsy ara. 8 Q And tan aajuar.mnte d:?rsal.vaa 3.r. uat centainad in 9 ei'; hor Applicut's 20-A, 20-M, or 2C-C.. L.; h r.e t- right? 10 gy That's corrach, t wj + re a t, 11 O And thenci ara ta:t adj: 4:nme '..: ~ c '.21 rouply .djur'. i t2 ) dcun m .mdicated 23,33 f3 2ang <_22
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f3 for ev.a:q year chat -inv. nuclour u via c. lant it. c.e2tponed :.aat i i 14 was cIcic7 to be ia aervice in th.u yn2 ut cda up ::ch noing j 15 in survice that year, ic ht cortcut? 16 A Th 2y were adjusiJ:antu dcun, yue. . [ f 17 Q Imd in ccat casou the i.c-)t.ctr m a Jcun icre. tuo I o 18 parconh aer cuclser pcwor picat act in .ercita p2: year, . .c
- 19 'i that rifat?
20 i A ';' hat appaars to be c. corret.; . t.at.ir.<w::. i f The design of the isyntam hca ::a -ic wita ocr . 11 planning criteria, which han sufficiant rasarva es ccvar j 12 cperating rauaEva as well cs planned mainc.uanc:2 and forcon i 13 octage rates. And I believe thn cas and .1 half you ro.6sr to 14 is moro the operating raserva. 15 0 And wnat that means is that at any time of the 4 16 year whenevar scheduled and unschedalad outag43 are in 17 axistancc at any time in the ysar that 27.4 dasign of the ! 18 system is such that it will ha one and a half ti- tno l 19 largest contingency on the aystem of reaarva cacacity, is i 20 that generslly correct? 21 A That is carrect, alchough cccasionally we run inte 22 a deficient cacacity p2riod for whataver 34 cccasion, whetnar 23 the icv vaa highs: than anticipated or mora capcity ran out. I 24 The operating rom:ve. is adj usud to 'z.r r zo te-eo scir*. . I ' 'DV i s cparating raserve on the cystem to main uin .ta ir.tr.grirl due i t t l l
l lic360 2pb7 to shock:: it can absorb, !!owever it starit! Out on normal m operation there. Th3:e is p.i.enty of cepacity availab1? to do , 3 cue and a half times. 4 0 At least for plann ng purposes prospectively, that is the intsntics of the way the margin la sat up, in that 6 correct, avon if it doesn't necessarily cos.e out that wa.y
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7 given any particular scheduled or unscheduled outages? 8 I don't ho*' if I quite understved that. But
. A 8 nort ally we hope that r.ost days of ths year the ayotna is 10 goihig tc be operating normally and 'it tre"Ild hav2 tant cym .\t-11 ing re.qecve availaele.
12 Mcw for the pu2pocen of nef:.n.'.::c = -: .cu t:.n<;c:.cy , O I3 the con:iccency could be -si-her cenerr. tion m2 rap oc ()
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v I8 trar.e:tission failure, or nome ce!:bir.atic n of .xs t$rc, le tnat 15 right? 16 A This criteria that tres're descr.tbi.ng now in 17 designet for having eufficient capac:.ty e.$re!.l.<nla to the 13 ' eystem, .ind it dcern't ree.lly get into + he traastission 13 . . a.spect. I l' 20 l 0 lico for the purportes of allowin(J pe.rticipento 21 vithin li37 COL to obtain crtvlit .9.ghivat "iteti.r objaxhive i 22 capabilicf require.wnts Miat at e allecei:d to i:ne biny 23j peel, '.s '.r. corrnet ':hau all mgmva. hts o f <mp.m :ity wr4 .! l za ; :x nr. ids:A to ba mm ro a.1 sw. c wge.w n mi aan..aw i , fd r l.t.hh 7 %?,N C8: 9 Ml :.s k.A.St *itJht? m , I . l e a !
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11,371 - M;LT2ER T3 .: mal 1 1 Q And for tha racerd, sir, what does the 70/30 formula 2 r<af er to? And cocid you explain ic srt.d Ly for the record? 3 A (Ilitness referring to document) O 4 70/30 forr.ula is the fer=ule daviand to determine 5 aach participant's share of the projected renarve *!hich is call- I 8 its capability responsibility. ,
. 7 And the 70 ,nercent reforc 30 that portion of t'ce 8 fractica tha t has to do 'tich tha it.' '-'- '"al ocapany ' c anne.al 3 7.cak. .
10 End the 30 percent hits te de P t.th che hvoraen of
, gg tha cor.p.ny's pc.h ever a 12- .conth ; 3 :.ca.
I 12 Q All right. I 13 And yet are rca.hng no'r t:ce t?.o ;iUCOL agrew.mt t 14 which is an agreement betwcen the part'.ciccata and .lEPC0L, la i 4 15 that right? j i A D*t's cc m o".. i 16 , i 17 . Q And that's where tha 70 '30 formu.'a actuall !s i i tt:ltten s'.c in in that agranment, is thr.". ur n: ? l 18 L 19 - A Th.=.t's cc rect. CIIAIRE.11 GCOD HOPS: Ia t.t.: ea achibit _a t".1 20 i racord? 21 M3. MEYEn ! don's %.< slier 9 1r. is, sir. $4ytn
. - the cenpany can corroct no,. il I'n r:ony.
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11,3"2 i l l 1ra2 I introduced at can of the other two cccaaions in which thiu . 1 2 q Janeral issua, naed for powr, had beea ra!.: red. . 3 Wo don't have a number on it. 4 I can prov h the Board with a copy. 5 CHAIR 5 TAN GOCDHCPE: Not if it's not in avidesnce.
; 6 MR. LEWALD: I rea1Lze it isa't i.n r.:vidence ,, cc.
7 CliAIRMAN GOODIIOPE: I just w-inte.u to get the pt70 i 8
, o nu:aber, i-1 it was in eviccnea, to rader c t/aare he got the j 9 icrtula tro':.
4 10 > G: ahead. 1 11 T.* MR. I1ET,: 12 O If I c0':,ld juct g a: y ". :c d:ror?.at .t..: tc;; c..).1 a i 13 little r: ore sp:c.fically, sir. 14 i; Is the f:r:nula ' hich 17 ';ae.d . to sat caca partic' pant' a I l
+
15 ; capability responsibility for such year? I th:t rig;1c? I 1 4 A That's correct. l 16;, 97 l Q ar.d thero is tire tarris t'a:.t .it a aurr.ed ce get tha i ja total capability responceibility. Gno of which in a fr.tction gg multiplied 'y c .7, and a socor.d of whien 1.1 a frac:icn :.ultipliai 20 by .3. ,
, 21 I: that righc? .
j 3 A That' r. c:::cc t. '
-a . 0 Od the first fraetica, 2 in2 me.1*.i;:11cd my . ? ic .
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11,373 ms3 1 Is that right? 2 A To tha sum -- this is what we call the 3 over C, 3 .no a being the incividual'a annual peah, and C in tna avaraga 4 of the monthly aggregates of the noncoincidental adjusta J annua _ a-5 ' pea.~ts of the participants. , S Q Now, let Ina just make rure the record is clear on 7 this. 8 3 is the numerator of that first ratio. and it is g the participant's annual peak. 10 i y I that right? 11 l A It's tha Tarticipant's id lus *.t.d annuti 90nx, yes. 12 Q Anc C in the sum of all :r.2 f:: :'.ci pe at:3 ' annv. L g3 peaxa, ic that right? O 14 A Yes. Of their noncoincidantal. Ia other wc:ds, 15 the summer peak is added along in utth ':ha wintar psak. It is 16 not a n ncoincident. 4 Q Right. . 37 and that means from Boston 2c!. son, the n.raeracer 18 3, would be Boston Edi?cn's :unw.ar pask. Is that right? 3 g A That's correct. g Q Now ths seco .d term on the + qttation, thu cna that i is raultipliad by .3, has in tha numeratcc, c.a4 avaraga of t h.s g par:icipanc's last 16 monthly posks, ir. thx right? 3 O ^ 'a r= '#1xiae ^*=== en* 'er or u i i l,. tl \ al
11,3"4 nun 4 1 0 Yes, sir. 2 A D is the participant'a projected adjusted average 3 peak for tha power year that is under consideration. So it is O 4 projected 12-:nonth, average. Or, in the caso of . thinking 5 into the future -- it is projected 12-month average for each 4 nonth.
. 7 Q And the denominator of that fraction is the similar 8 number for all the participants, not just the particular 3 participant under discussion.
10 Is that right? 13 A That's correct. 12 DR. CALLIEAN: Pardon,ths incarruotion Mr. Meyer, 13 but this part of the Board doosn' t have this fer:nula, and I g apologize for the interruption. But, lotine ask something to 15 clarify my point. 16 In this second term on the right-hand side of the 97 equation, I presume it is, you refer to tha second ,, tern? 18
.. es,sh.
i 99 DR. CALLIl!AN: Second ter:n on tha right-hand 3ide 20 **""" "*
- And the numerator, you say, la the participant'.s --
21 Applicant!s in this particular caco, parnaps --- projection. Projsction how far ahead? g T11E WITNESS: Right now thay ara at bars avullabis that Scr3 projected cut th rough tus It ti fear that their O I l
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' 4 Is that right?
5 A Y4. 6 0 Now, going to a mar.) gonaral tsoi:, in 92 cra1, air,
. 7 het NSre.CL u a pur poo'. me:w: gan rv.O'n ;k':r.ing derisicna, a t'isi 1:1 rukinej c::o c;eciator, aa tc *inat typ c ' cretoity to 9, build, : hay r.'en' t juat 1cck at tha ab:9 oJ :nc *:eak, but '9.sy 1
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g i 13 10#'I3 EI'#0' Jhcat the yccr. ja O And ain11ur!.7, a utility tL. - ' , pl.u.ais.ej -- mM. lug 15 generation pinnn t s decisiona, ' tor.14 p: o;. #.y 1 ? at le d . 18 duettier. Ourvan throughatt3 t.N. y4 w, an, .vc 'u.t et..; ::w;.m l
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mm(J t Q Certainly. 1, For looking at these tios to other poclu er other , 2 entities, do you look at the total capnaicy of the line for i calculacing its addition to MEPOCI. reliability, or do you Just i 3 ; look at a part of the capability of the line above an 1 i
- [averageusagelevel,orsomethinst like an ave _ rage usage level? >
l 7} A In actual operation in the field, of course, the ,
)
;* firm capability of the line is uced and avitilable to be j
;; dispatch conter.
I
- p. p In determining the rol.2civa reliability benefit for
,; , planning a generation systam, we mage a acudy anctinu up ostr
,; syster and in the case of Now York, he cat:.rn :fov \* rk c.yatoa, .
I g, and givo a range of anyuhara frnn zero to an infinics number { O g j capacity, and det.armine frcat the inborant syatem characteris-i t i g 1 tics of the tuo systems, what tbt real ru11 ability benefit in. g Cbviously you cannot exceed tha capacity of the line. Duc nor:nally it is considerably lass. ; i Q And just sort of an intuitive mactzr,tne reason it is usually less than the total capacity of the lino is ! g 3; because the line usually is partly in une an a routine matter { and it is only the excess cvar that that adds to the reliability h IJ that right? i A In detarmining the reliability benetic of a linu it. ano caso of taa Neu Englana systera, they have a fir.1 i
. purchats ccaing from the nott Ycrk syattm. Obvioucly the l ,
I
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I 11,3C0 m10 1 capabilitias of the lins h is to be r: duce.d by cat, becausu 2 wa are alraady counting that fir 1 enp:3111ty 2.2 . p ut al cur u . 3 gensrat:.on systen.
~
4 So in looking at t'.a rallabi'.ity acnafica, u uould , I 5 dorata the capability of tne 1.ina by tan anotr.: of .: cat purchaseb 3 ar.d then look at the romaining capabillty of tas 1 na and ces 7 vaat reliability hanolit is availabis. he s ', Q Do ycc luvo sai enti::.ta, a .r, f ar hcu seen in g, megwatts, or megawat equivalenta, th.a es .:.1 addition to i gol NEMOL pliacility is ic al'. of ha ut. id';a'.cn lana :lun I gg to othur :.::1a? l 12 A This is a tur:a P. hat you Fr.n t o a; crah:1 o '. ; i 93 24a are abla to tak) inte ofdece, by having theita l g ties to cur neighbors, wa Joci right ncy d':r.: atudy t!mt we ! 15 would hcVe the sama benufit lec:a tha 1.'.nr.3 as 'aving an fl00-- 16 me9awatt gsnar&W.* with no fc:ced cui.n !au 4pplied P.o it. 37 It is the uma as ?.sking a' 'ir's .?30-<anywn':: sitpply, and 73 13 Da/id fit. I 13 1 10 I t 21 l 22 ,l l 2s i I b [ t 2$ 8 I, f 5 h
I 11,331 2dsvid 1 Q And that's frca all of thn tica *::tv.:en Umi 2n(11 sad
*vid1 2 and ether entities adde.d together. Ia thac :. ~nt!
take 4 3 A At the, presant time, I qnct. in.at w.'Lue us cna thc.t s*. 4 w received from our New Yorhinterconns:tica ec.p .hility. Ws 5 are currsntly evaluating the valuu on ths one tid in Ney 4 6 Drr. swich,'.hacause it is a one tic. It n2:'tainly not scing to 7 ba a fir:2 b:cauce there e enly one lins thar.2. 8 Zo'<tavsr, up 8 .throu:;h -- I thinh --it's throu?h tQc y :c: are* 63-86 9 M nava a firn u .it purcha:t f:Om "tc.' un ac:rien thi sh u::cen:c to to .h t c:.;: cilicy me :st*: tc 500, so *,.e n o 900 mcgn+a.. ,nn4-11 new in ths ;rcc3cc of t.*.ying to hty:*ti ,:t <i'; .n th:4 b fi.%. a 12 pur:hnse es:pires; .T. nt tht. rmti r e'.r. :? ' .!.t ,r *nci d'.; of the 13 ! -- to He*r 2r. gland c: Scw Dr 2nsvien ic. " treuM cr.neet it 14 to be esistively cen11, due tc the eius cd e.e New ".rnnts.ic'.r 15 systa:s, co pared tc the Stc E:;giand syewu.. 16 Q Is it a fsi stc ent.act.t, sir, th:0 *tero trv to 17 transmi:mion tics bat sten "sti "ngisnd T :*~er P%1 stnd the 18 P cvinco of Quabsc? I to A Thoro 1: nc ~~ no c:atinuouc it.hrecc.n:culon. ly 20 that I menn, I b311evo, t;1ac co?.a utilirica in 'T wsnt f c 21 arrango by stritch:.ng 1cada and pui cansa '<i% na Provi..ca of 22 Quebec. *mt thora's no conti;* acus ud. 04rvisa tran'enisc ica .
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23 G T.r.d o'.:t. ...a 17 :hn only .:::.1r. tis.:ba '.i t tat F .w.
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e l 11,3E2 david 2 ' li trat right? m 2 A That's corrset. i 3l C Is it a fair charnc?.r.riantion.sie, a? in Nati ragland l m : 4 Pcwor Pool, itself 10 heavily intarcenntacten witnin itac1.!, but t 5 very lightly connected with othor pecia cr other antities? ! 6' A I don't consider lightly with HW Yorn. I think 7 they have a rather o::tensiva intorconnocticns with No.i Ycit. i 9 It's been fMpossidia ta haw an intarcounseaion uith Quaban; 7 1 3 firsu of .111, becauaa of thoir h;rdrcNya :s:ti. You equid non huve : un int wccr.na?. ion vita :.htin. cccausa r.' uu dil idntf 'antid 10 .'.C
- 11. conat.antly - tha aunbi'ity of thrs uptax., th ty ;rv.t.* d acna:ur.ily 12 ; he o ioning up ta tha ineg tran:nti.4ala.: 1.n.i:2. chat n'n' n.r?u i
13i =cming fron the ncrth and part of the provincts <1 con to th 2 t 14 l load center. 3c tho only way there .:an ha c.n indsrconnoccion 13 wculd be tr. rough, vall, wa cell it a dir,c. curnnc inter ti; i connectica :end r.othing - thara hats h en no 4.cvantaqu ' du e to i i 17 t2.s .'.nuk of any fira purcr. ass boing ave.ilacle fr ,:. Owa >co :: tg maks that had of a purchace. 19 Q When you uay that in your cyini:n that th nin r 2J to the Ms,r York Pocl would bri relativel.y ett:ng, .:culd yo 1 21 stata for the record hcv large tM y actenliy ara in veles 22 cr kilovel*.u? ! 23f *
.. I cr.5 .rc::026r all o f then Imt hu P.vc r.ia ~
[ sra a e., :a:. w:,cus uit :.u=. n caru ' < a :.: w . m 2a f .
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11,383 david 2 I connections. (
) Z Q The 800 magawatt equi.mient figur- for thc value v .
3 of the tiew England Power Pcol ptzpocas c e the num of r11 4 these ties to New '1crk -- could thaP. c uter be incrona d 5 by additional transmission ties to New Yor'C 6 A The recent analys.ls that w haJa teaJa 1:.dicates that 7 due to the fact tha ths .reliabl4 cricaria .:? the N rv '!c::k ( J, 2y s *.a:n it sdif , that if w vers -- v al I'u ::.4 '.' sir 4 a w -- ; i 9l let's aay the firm tranzf sr causeflicy .' etwevn t o .tyr:u.no I lo i:., on ya e rt:cr :: ;;.M =c;asac.:e -- J I ..m he
. '.N. .: .' D.m r e -
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- u. Ca op-arnting ree of 3..:: tr: ts.=, y v v9 .
l 1? : a contingoncy. t
'4 .v.c 30 cc.c fir *:t that car a concidor.1d .m atos:nd
?5 about le.00 with prasant intercenttecti.one, and if vn wa ra co i
M. i'*. crc:se .h:t nu*ber, tnu b.sanfit sppnar3 r.O 3,.au art 5::o
.- '!su 1LvJl.tnd sy:;te:3 grotes and the liuw Yor.t 3y.W.m (nosa.
., q : And there dcasn't appc.ar c': ';ac prucon ; tima r. hat t
g r, ! tha:o scul:1 ha =tch .ulditional nwilan) 3 .;a :Tuis b. djin 4.1 cut c At:1 .' f the la :amoanoe:.'..m c.r;. .bilicy f
,e ! thrc'a Th ' 33 or !9, y was u:croaaed.
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':rcnd rw 213 hi!.a ns'.; Lia.: cno inea 4.t: in ;;c ;.wir.a.*
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e1 11,304 1 david 4 A As of today, when both the New York eystem and 2
\ the New England system have capacity in o.tc3as of thair 3
criteria? ' 4 Q Yes, sir. 5 A I'm not exactly sure whether there would be - 6
; obviasly if there was a need, an emergency, you'd gat more capacity in, but whether there would inherently be n' ors 8
- on a planning basis that you could firmly counc on, I'm not 9 sura. to Q 11 11, sir, if there is -- aa part of this 11 hypothatical, we'rs assuraing currsnt ucous sacacity la tha 12 i New York pool, and we're asauming that you hav3 a ter nd 13 now 345 kilovolt line coma into existence, which doesn't have any day to day use between the two pools; woul<'at ' t 15 that new transmission lina automatics 11y have come magavatt It) equivalents attached to it? 17 A The -- when you stat talking abcut the reliability - to bsnefits that the peol would achieve, i'c also dependa en tha 19 ' reliability of your System. 20 If the system is ralatively otrong, the ru11 ability . benefits is when you're in trouble, thay'vo goc something to help you with, and also vica versar when you're both in an' 23 e;: cess pcaition, you don't hava that occasion ocate ses o6n, i and be abla to say, woll, I've get chac nev *. lao. "~ t 's goi.t7 O 25 co be ticrth this musn to ma. t i
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] 7 11,3115
,s d.tvid5 I obvicuely, if ycu have tha ?.dditional capabiitty 2 2nd there is the oppertunity to do scoreny int.erdsaga --
3 something that the disp;stchers are 1.1 constant connection with, 4 the ratas on the systems. I'm cure advantages would be 5 made. 6 But from reliability standpoint -- but unlear,ycu'rq 7 in an amargency tranemission rystw. condition, it's difficult 8 to say yes it 'muld. 9 Chviously, it '+ould for a time when taa ar stom is 10 in troulfe, 2!.ko in e. transminsion oute.gs. 11 r i 12 i i 13 g4 15 16 17 10 e i 19 l ao i 21 2* L3 - l 4 24 , o e h
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(- ly 11,038 j 1 ridd A I kncu of no imediata plcr.s. ebficus17, if the 2 purenase were agreed to that required addi:1cesi capacity, that 3 davidE would -- but I knew of no such plan 3. 4 Q .Tre yce aware of any Nev England Fever 2001 plans 5 for inersaced transmission tics to liew Ycrh? 6 j A Not in th'3 - not anything!!cfinite that l'.n atrara 7i of.
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Qusbec? It A I':s nec tware of any. 12 O Cculd I change. cha sub,3ct nn , . Sir an1 i c h y rtt 13 l tc turn to page 15 of your toatire.cn't. Or. pega 10, f:ho :/p I.t of ths paga, and ott.rting on lino 6, sacre'c a ests:nsnt made 15 thers About the ocenomic benefit of -- at:::s,d.ated uith pl:nning tG to a high load grcwth rate rnd actually or,2ri.ancing a lo"ar 17 load growth rater is that right? 13 ,
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19 1 Q Ncw, this stat.wacnt tu bnocd pea what pertica of f l 20 i Applicant's Exhibit 20-C? I 21 i
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T 11,339 david 9 1 Q No, sir. I've made a mistaka. Let ne -- that () 2 k study which is cited on page 14 is not containad in Applicant's 3 Exhibit 20-B or 20-C; is that right? 4 [ A That's correct. 5 0 Now, you are familiar with that study cited on 6 page 14 your testimony upon which this conclusion is based; 7 is that right? 8 A Yas. O Q Now, is it a fair statomar.t, sir, chat the methoqelogy of that study assumad :htt the nay bccoloca nuclea: to 11 fccilities that were baing -- that wera havf.ag their etconomic 12 honefit measurad, that they would be bus.it a: Ono tima or 13 another, and the only question that stitdy ad6rsasad ta tha tim'.. s-l 14 of their in-service date; is that right? / f 15 A The ctudy addressed dilferont ways to -- a7 we all r 16 know, the exact load in the future is rather uncertain, and l l'7 this ztudy addresced making expancion plano to neot diffurant 18 lead growth ratas, and than findir.g'out that you had-- that f 1 you had planned wrong, and you aicher plann2d on co high 19 20 a load grcwth or too low a load'grcwth', ' 2r And this statement rsferred to the fact that if - I s 22 you ended up planning a syntsm that 9nus a little larger ':han 97 ~ 23 grcwth and you endsd up with cems acditional nucl,.ar capacity [ l 24 installsd early because of ths tect thaS. :da nuclear [ ganaration is cho tcat economical gen:r.ticr. In tho va .. cad i 25 I
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e 1!! portion of thenix. david 10 ji . 2 .p []- But this, having this capacity in early, would be -- , b ; result in economic benefits. ,
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" d l Q Lot me ask the question a little differently: I l 5 think I asked it poorly, sir.
6l My question is: the comparison in this study you'rq 4 7 referring to was between installing the nuclear basuload 8' capacity early and finding out you didn'c need it quits that D soon on the one hand, and installing it later on tha other hand. 10 Is that right? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And it wasn't between caanging th:2 in-cervica dates sr 13 the one hand and not installing it at all en the otner hand; A O la that right? I 15 A No, I believe all these were designed within the 16 constraints to try to meet the New England mi:: guidelines, 17 which would mean installing soue alternatively. 18 MR. MPYER: I have no further questions of the 19 witness. 20 CHAIRMAN GCODHOPE: Mr. Smith, do you have any? l l 21 MR. SMITH: Yes, I have some questions. 1, 22 3Y MR. SMITH: a l 1 23 Q Mr. Baratow, referring to 'page 13 of your testimonyq l 1 24 line 21, where you refer to the pousanial - 7 ':a charactsrisinq *
,t 25 it -- reliabis crittorira that may be needed in .he futura. Is i
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11,091 ddddddd I that a correct characterization? of t'.e reserva requirements?
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,r.vidil 2 A Now that I've read it, would you please repeat it? ,
3 Q okay. Is this a range of reliability reserves 4 that may be needed in future years for the UEFOL system? 5 A It's an estimate of the reserves thati would be 8 required to meet the NEPCL reliability criteria. q Now, in that assuming that Piljrim Unit 2 as 7 3 designated in Applicant's 2.~.hibit 20-A? It cones on-line a g in December '85. , That we.s a ref1setica-ei yha -- res , of the
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I. A reserve or a reserve requirement? g Q Rasarve requiraw.nt, t o. , g I. Unfcrtunately, there's betsn esome reserves in 17 i . e::cas of that. - 18 ; i
. CHAIRIGN GCCEEOP3: I'm Jorry? I
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I 11,393-davidl3 1 And in this schedul-a, Filgrin allo comes en in () 2 the end of '35. It has a big i:apact, encco units ceming ;, i I 3 togather. l 4 0 Now, you--- that's tim basic escumpeion in che f i 5 riso in the need for reserve requireccat? l, 4 A Yas: that plus tha fact that cur initial .,* i
- I 7 :nodeling, as I'm sure you know, freu th.e panel that was !.
O here last time, tir. Bcras.er (phonetic) hr.a indicated fer-9 the first timo the pool vac using a tudel f0 recast, and the . i
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1, it en this also. I 12 O If -- atrike that. - i s 13 Loes your answ.etion also laclude any of t.5e .NEP l l 14 limits -- the New England Power units = this 29 percont? l C 15 A Of course, those twc waits, as 'fou cre awara, have ! e i tc been delayed at this point in time; at least, I don't nave a.m. I 17 rsschsdula date. ! f gg In arriving at thosa nur.Mrs, they were a part of ! 19 that. 20 0 Okay. So uc cgree that ISP imita 1 cnd 2 havo l i i 21 , been delayed beyond vnst is shotm in wglicant'a 20-A in ! 22 '87 and '09. -
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23 A Yes. I kn't knar @at en r.ee datos will be, 1 g =uT bS*[ '80.rd: Q10 o thd .hI.tIkOr9 1n Uf id?d.Vbn3 a*0 I&lic (m . d 25 l 250I- i 1; L
g F l-p , n., - . david 14 1* 0 Jould it be fair to cay chat hacau2c :.f the CG 2 situation, Ucw England Power unita land 2 is probably far -- 3 in the relatively distant future before they ,xco ' 4 on-line; veuld you agree with the.t? 5 A I W
- that's correct. I don't know what the 8 pool will bring on in its placa.
7 Q If you take cut NEP 1 and 2 Th+". aculd tant do 8 to yoc: numbers, 23 to 28 pe=2nt? 9 Would that chenge che rnnge to make it lo nr? 10 'y
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11 it. !:c uppar part c!.ght chance, but in +eutda an 'sas: 12 : tha 3o2. decidaa to de ahcnn rc7.:tcin? thy: F .:~.M 9
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14 cn cr is thors anything 3100 that ' s c =ing cr.? 15 That veuld cbricusly bo in;arunt in that pariod. 16 j Q If you q cna of tha reasons "cu havt thic ranco 17 is bec tise of im.ntura noits affectin? a stre 3 s m, t3 , eculd that be a tamporary type of phanoannon: let's sa7 , 19 .1 rf.ttar of tw2 to thre ycJtrs or icarj32, givbu ti.*e fcr ':ncae 10 , nDL2B t= 23? 3? 21 A *2 usa a five y2a.: i=:sturity paried, s.nl tha 22 auquence of when you'ra hetnain:J thae oa - foe :c.cw,11 w 2, thera cas ona cvarv five inara, obwicucl'r . < on' t en uitti.m-
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11,395 davidl5 1 have a multiple sffect. 2 , In this particular cace, the cchacule -- I think , 3 there was a cocple of them in one year, and zban same delay 4 and a couple more. 5 With a schedule that looks like hc.re -- I do think 6 though that the impect of the new foreccat vill also be a 7 factor. g Q Would it be fair to any hat enca thouc placts that 9 ars coming on relatively shortly ha acusdelad c relatively 10 short t p within ene another, that tha rece::ve reaui crent 11 would cand to go back to the 33 parcont rather than the high 12 and of 28 percent av they beccma :nturs. g A I think there's a condency to dio that. e. gain, y though, en the 'in: pact of the new forecast, this may hcvs 15 a factor of sort of holding this contant rathsr than retlly 16 dropping back. 37 0 I think one mors question: I refar you to applicant .s 18 exhibit 20-C, pags 36. That's the New England Load ana 39 Capacity report, '78 chrough ;39. 20 Do you have that? g CEJPSsN GOODEOPE: What page is thct? i MR. SMITE: Pago 36 i . U !g SY MR. 3M7.TH: l
! G Ca vou have that, Mr. hr:r.crs?
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- i A Yes, I do.
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1 11,296 davidlG 1 O I'm 1 coking at line or itam 29, p;nscat racerve (l V 2 after maintenance.
- 3 A Yes.
4 0 Could you explain to me why those numbers go from 5 '86 of 27 percent down to winter of '89 '90, 22.6 can 6 you tell me if there is any difference between thoze tw 7 numbers and the onsa you have in the tastimony? 8 A Thasa nu &sra hero that arn up, I ses .sor.a of th u 9 that ars in the :i7. l l 10 Qp Sumner valua, is that correct? 11 A Yes. 86. l 12 0 Would you planco rapost yocr questien. I'm trf ng i g4 13 to sea if there's any relationship haturen thic range of the U 14 27 parcant through 22.6 percant in tha winter of '99-90 and 15 the numbers that you have on page 13 - required reservee 16 23-29 percent. 37 A What you're locking at acro is install 2d reserva, 18 if you will. And whatII am talking about is that reserve 19 requirsd to maintain of a lichility critoria. But obviously, 20 the schedule that I am talking about beers on the same uniu 21 installations.
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22 Q. One f5a=1 question, for clarification. Ara yca 23 referring in your. resoonso, to the 70-20 formula, and is that y a formula for also datermining rouerva raquirementa? () 25 A No. This formula la centained -- it's a formula l l l l
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is 40 percont nuclecr -- e.nd for scr.e : :.e.m na nach; 4 power plants in the cystem have to ve shnu Cem -. political
- 5 cr other. rise -- hov does NE900L pl:n +.o raicanin r.yct.m 6
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' MR. CLZ2TCN: Mr. Chairme.n.
m MADELON ,
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- CHAIR'4mi GCODuo?c: 'Js s . ;
david 3 r.pbl MR. CLEETCM: At tha hima Of tha Thres "ils Is.'.r.ad
~~ 4 incident the State of Connecticut we.s mr/ hignly re lying upon 5 nuclear power. Thern was a great deal of discussion 1.~uF 6 what would happen in Concocticut if tacy '. 2d to shut dm'n 7 all of their power planta. l 8 So it's not a; aypoth Mical :.3 si'. i.w.e.. . *-muld 9 2.e it cut to be.
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9.....'._', ...- .<.3'......>.-.=._'..*.'.'..'....'.- 13 vo'ra 6.11%ing . bout, and ero :a a:oving bwmi :.:cr2 Luc 1 c 8 3 J 14 reliability, th:n &nt happen: to ice systen il c.ha ne... car 1 15 pcwer plants are une.blo to 0;:.srato Cor ons r+uon 0:' sr :hsr? 16 CHAIRMid GOODdOP2: Yeu: 72 limit).ng it te na:1ss.:, 17 och any 40 parcent. l' 18 MR. CLE3 TON: No. If it i.3 40 porcant col:. v.la.: i 6 19 heu, then, would they maintain sy stect zniabilit.y aii ; W; r. 20 : ior=12 4
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21 1 CHAIR'!MI GOODHOPS: Ycu aan 1?i it' 3 40 c.-.3:c:s c I t 22 relicila. 40 cere::st
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mpb2 ' 1 is about 23 to 20 percent, and you've gev.10 perce st miccing. 2 CIAIIU!All COODl! OPS.: Mcil, '.tr. Latald, I thin t . i 3' tho ans.ior is pretty obvicus, ao I'm going to lo's Mr., D'irstew
,e 4 answer it. ,,
5 MR. LEWALD: Wo11, it may be obvicas, but I would 6 object to continuing the dialogues that too:c pls.ca in 7 connecticut hars. 8 C11AI3 MAN GOODIiOPS: M1 riant l'.a going to ich ; 3 him anc'.ier ti:is onc queation. 10 F GO 3hsad, Mr. 9al.at v, 11 TH3 ~4ITUU53 We ?.1, .::cvi.cea Ly 15 iv. 30c.* 'masen i2 or anodier nc: e ci that nucln4r porrm w.o av1ilabl;,, g3 13 g New England would be r.:: ning all its c'.1 li.ced cq :.ip:c. eat V L 1
, 14 ' and everything l': had available <4cd trjing a suc as m*;ch as 15 help sa they can. And I'm et.~a they uod d be closa, nig anc 16 tuck, depending on uhon this ucr? ho coc'.r.
17 But if tha Han ngland .lucie L: p'. ants vara doin, : I i 13 l I'n sur,s di.1 other -- across tim tia. So r acn ' c thina in 19 wou!.d b.s a confine:nent to !BW Eng1md., *lo : N odd 21n .:. 5. sc: ! i tne rest of the ccantry would also hava :t 9.icble.a. I 20 , I
, 21 i .9*.i MR. C M CM: ;
9 22 9 Well, in relationship :.o that, it 5.uw 'd glar.d 1 t 1 hag U. '
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's 25[ 11 would a.' fact this r:::c ;mra E.u .24r. .: " c :. of ac -
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71 11,401 mpb3 1 country, is that correct? fm 2 Q A I'm surs that's true. , 3 Do you knov whsther or not the Nw England Q 4 planning group has any contingancy plans to request the ( 5 utilities t> continue to maintain at the raudy certain 6 fossil fusi plants or other types of cloctric power 7 generation plants in the event that they would nced thab 8 if there were an outage of one or r.: ora, or a aufricisnt 9 number cf nuclear power plants to crusa the ru arve cc.pacity to to disc.ppear? 11 A New England plan.s to a criteria t.2 ::.ca a 12 rollability critaria, and they're tryinc- to ajand tnoir 13 syntes in the most economical way they can, so it benefita 14 the custner. So ocusoquently ths reliability critoria 15 calls for a cartain amount of reserve, and hopefully they 16 carry that rasarve in the most economical manner they can. 17 Q In other words, you're saying that the reaseve la is just simoly megawatta and doesn't taka into account 19 whether it's fossil fuel or nucleart it's -lust so you have 20 the capacity. A 21 The capacity of scmething that we'.O.d maintain 22 the reliability of tho system, and obviously sema of that 23 would be in gsa, curbino, and so Eorth. 24 G Chack you. 25 3!2. CLIETON: Me, furder q'amtions. i t i
11,402 mpb4 I CHAIRMMI GC0DEOPE: ;.1r. Lawald, any rsdirect? 2 a MR. L3MALD I hava no fstrther que:Sticas. , 3 DR COLE: Just a couple of quasticna , Mr. Barstow. 4 EXA!(INATION SY TilS EOARD 5 BY DR. COLE: 6 Q Cn page 14 of your testimony you refar to - I 7 beliove it's pags 14 - tha econcaic generatica mix. 8 'inat is the current aceno:nic gerarat.icn laix for 9 nuclear and cthers in tho NEPCOL? ) 10 Ay I'd havs to get the rudelinen out %o rsus>a.:- 11 tham ext.ctly. Det frce the studies th:in n'v.: dorre, exp.nd-12 . ing tha syntara to try t: =Na'c tha = cst -necac'.nical s.v?.aaica s 13 ' avalLible, we havs =ccisar capacity in tarn.s of p.nck aarnu s V(s e 14 sconomical up to 70 pereent.of pcM: load. fai I'*/a forgotton k j 15 what that is in capacity, irtybo arcund '50 percent. I
! 16 I can dig out the stuchers hera.
. 17 So it 'rould be bateload capaci"q, a.2d I ?>si'avo I
, 18 ~ the desirable addition la ~ being ut: clear up to .u c' ich a u
r is 70 percent of posh, but r.tnging frca .3I: to '75 cr am 20 Inter aediats onpe. city - Let un pull out a l 21 rafaranca document, if I might. 22 (Pausa.)
~ I 23 52 had be.neloe.d capacity, cf which a:.1 w i 24 addition: would bs ccioar In terni of pac.f: it wcca.d bo (nd 25 60 to 70 percent. In tar:rus of caoa.ca,ty, ,ccus 43 to 50, d
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4 11,403 1 mpb5 par cnt. And we have acma asiating baso 10ad cape. city which rx U would bring the total base capacity to arcend 70 to 75 parcant 3 of peak, and about SG to 62 of total capacity. 4 Then we have intermediata cs.pacity, around 20 to 5 25 percent of peak, internal combustion, around 12 to 15. And S I pump storage, or its equivalent, around 10 to 13 percant.
~
7 Q Could you idontify the r= port you've read thesa 8
. figures from, sir?
9 - This is entitled "New England Iscarrodiato and
.A Peaking Denaration Mix Study, 1930 '31 to the Year 2000/01."
II It's dated Augusc, '77. 12 Q Thank you. I3 (m On page 14, at liaas 14 to 13 - and I guans
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14 also on down to lins 22, but in that section, spacifically 15 with rafcranca to linas 14 and 15 on that pago - could ycu 16 explain to ma, sir, why is it that the higher thd raliability 17 level tuo 1cuer tha overall cose des to airly installation of 18 nuolaar capacity? 19 'dhat z.ro tha asaumpticas that ar.s built int: that 20 statsr. ant?
!; 21 A Frem theco mix guidalines that I just indicat;d 22 to you, it indicated that it would bc cccacmicci far ~
23 3 w "a gland to h.wo bEPJaen 60 to 70 por0: enc of tha m usi 24 paak load is nucicar cacc. city. l l [- 25 n a a r un a= , ,a u u a en u a u g a al:==c. l
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.1,in5 mpb7 I A Yes. It. ha report - .tculd Teu giva :n anat I -. 1 j 2 rsferance again, sir? [,
3 Q Your tsstin:cny, paga 13,1i:2.0 6, 7 and 0, a N f
-* arstence which readas i
5 "In additi== thsra i= an acer,or.ic bancfit I i 6 s33ccic. tad with 97.cnning to 2 hiric lotd grcuth 7 rato and actcally ent.x3riencing a 1:".tr grew:h i h.J .. u .14 t e 1 9 Tha.t is in offect 23.d aa: a quas;-J.ca .C u'::.d. y:u t
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11 did r.aAa ccapucer sxpanaicns. %s mad; cr.:.3 to a i;a parcnnt 15 laad gecwth, and tN:s had the syster. -~- 124 :h.'.n dotorni.2nd , 15 that thres yea.ca dcuc tno road ti's syn:n Jce ic .ut!.ly
-;; c:tpericacing a 5.4 peres.Q Icid gr.:uta, .:Id DAnn, :r.auca iS of ..b.'s lead tii+3 Ocastrar.nts of tryitc to qu: use: 1 u and 19 '
your n :t guidsiirts is a 0?.20h-n? 3 L - J.J.cica ~ end -: . rr:rS M. . 10 , 'm had an expanulon wir.a e pic.st <>iving a d,4 per en. 1. cad i. 2: i growth and i:hrt.c '/ cars into it dr:0.;inud inor- . cc 3 ?. al 1 r 7:~Y'ith wa2n' t thah groet, and 9t' S ca'.', c::n.triac::ing 2 ur
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11,4C6 mpb8 it was 15 to 20 years -- and actually angerienced C.o conclusions that .I just -- witscased the conclus.'.cas ^.ha.t 3 I hav= just described. m 4 Q Thank you, sir. 3 DR. COLE: I have no furthar qucsticas. O CHAIRMA.9 GCODHOPE: Dr. C:111iha.3 has a fet 7 qt:ssticas. l 8
; BY DR. CALLIEAN: ! l 9 Aa a corollary SO Mr. Cicator's qu:3-.1:n, I Q l f
- 0 prasttzt if tha suppositien *rors cada tar.- th: 50 par:aat j i
II fossil fusi generatad capacihy la tJef .hgland 'scra te .:assa . t 12 to 2:tist because of s. vir:na:ntal er etc.er corsifcrittion: i I 1 C ycur answer would bs ths sans as to nia qa w .i.:n3. j v 14 A That's correct. l 15 0 Th=*. you, i 1 16 On page 11 of your testimony ~ T.rd I apologiac
- 17 if I = lifting this out of contart, but 1et =s to ao . sad '
s i' 18 we 11 go back as far as secassary ?.o got r.a : straight. dl 19 The final centence on that paga 11 which rafsrc i 20 to the amabar of instsness of potantial pcwor shortig.3s and - i e.1 ao forth, the final sentence saye: i
- 1r 3
e 22 The swapia was taratinated in ocr.cber ! 1 23 ; cf '73 bacaua.s of the subroquent o== Sac I 24 ' rossrva aituatica brought about ny 2.3 oil
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e 11,407 mpb9 And at lar.st to tho extant tha: I cndarsted n
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V) 2 uhct prs:sdas it, that ssatence bothers nu. C.n ycc halp 23, 3 pisase? 4 A I'd nava to read thia again. 3u'. what uc,*ra 5 describing hora was an historical analysis that wcc usad in 6 detomining what ths lisw Eng12: d exp3ri==a had ho:n *w a 7 proposed critsria, the prenant New England reliability 8 .nnd I's hscribing, indicating in M1.0 thr.u ysar critaria. 9 period, I think it va.s, ch, is, crr 1970., '7:. 572, cad up 10 ustil tis oil wbe.rgo in '73, vnidi i balis.va hit ac h 11 Oct0 car er 2cver.bsr. 12 Mmr 2ngiud in that tic, fran v *.: having 13 rapid load growth and it waa having t:0uale gr.tting capacity
]
14 on lina. So we vers superi cing soms shortaga0 a='i naving 15 to operat.2 the systra quita #.w.eetly with a deficient 16 capacity situation, and we had to razort to ' nit:gs raductions 17 and custa=2r 2nd radio and rv cppsalts to acit ~.ho cuac. *- .r to 18 rsdnes thair slectri: consu=prica. 19 : .bd all us*r2 saying and trying is annlyn.a 20 what really happened in establishing unat ww'.m pr::os h: . 21 foe critaris is thst as far as th-2 disconnecti=J c2 rwto:23rs 2.2 our critaria calla for not cavi.sg te dicacrasc., 3h7:1::.2.17 . es *e w -
.s. 84 ampeare .e e ...e m i
24[ oCC3 in ha 73a:3.320 ,0 C I.40h e d g'.r. Ort *.i ?.3 Cay ?.ci "*l , ; (O V 4 23 Acd all W 'ra 3aying ia th e c72 3r:gr m te.a
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bl 12 408 mpb10
' estimating that the incidsnca for discceechi n of curtcsors,
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- the actual aparisac.s hara was 3 to .SE,. had during that ,
3 period wa did not have to pull a switch on a.y customara althcugh we fael that if that time ported ra.n lifa a parianco ( 5 had gona en longar that thera was a v.ary scod chcsca wo would 6 havs had to disconnect .i cuato:2cr. 7 0 I gun:n, again, in the final ncnts :m en unat 8 pago, it's cha cxesas rassrv4 sinettien ;alatsd to tan cil 9 er.targo , 10 k That was a r. .rt of your car.:::r..? l I t t1 That's what I don't '.*naar:t:e.d. C 12 A N911, with En.a cil m.:g dt :: taz ::::uitir.g 13 sconomic situation that resulted in taic country sud ta=
,n, %.)
14 conscrvatica af forts that hagan inmediata1*/ ".o redues oil, 15 thers was a slacksning off of tac s1cetrical 1 sd Jre r:2 in 16 New I:ngland. At the saI::4 tina thcro was enpacity that una 17 almost raady to go conmarcici, and it was brTaght cn 1.in-s t i 1 18 and the load didn't grow. So that. time Englahd bacama x:cac: l i 19 M:. Vo tne capacity sacdod to imat a rf.11a2111ty crit.irf.a. i 20 0 I can imagina the.t teorsafter taa aaa2 ~:niag f 21'I wocid rat necessarily ba repreonat:'.tiva ha:caut t. of c..nrnal l 22 factora. And vnat I understand yon now to have said 1; tc.t.6 ; We e= 88 e. d e e * ** *8 f *'O
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i kd I 'j .f 3 dk'*.'sl* tNi".n NWJ Ce5pt hlO9 7.t kD? 2CV.Isdk tV ~.* la [.rCN E S ='3.m 6 I e j , sj 23 ( OhD.t 13: M.a h c.2c Er.b fi.~.l y giViag *.'c3 3c' t Of 04 $ 2~'*..'. i i. c .i 9 Il
11,439 mp'.211 I excess. 2 ' A That is cerract. l 3 l G Than.t you.
.a 4 Thsre's bazn ec sic 3rabia disaubnion ' tis 5 aftarncon about tha reserve aargin, and I would lika to 6 : tocch en them also, please.
and parhaps first may I awe you to aid ref :.v.aory 7 8 a ; sit. W5va plom:d thic grocac a utz. dst.: ed rices, na you i 9 doll k.ou, E.ad I hava Ic?.:r.bsrod, con resfirr.cd, u:-h:tuach.o17 i 10 corn :hiF; lik: at 13 percent resc rs :n:gia 27 uns ti?.OCCL': j t.
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t.3 if I ra, d.on't hesitc.to to 2011 r.? re. 12 2 5 not caa ynn , f. 14 corral #e thn 18 R:.tn tha 03 F.c ?,7 P.oranpa 2. al. & rent ; i 15 tis? n an, for ona thing. } . I 4
. 16 ; A T411, I'm nch ?r. e.ve ed tho sp2c.'li.e r3for nco l i
17 ,l to the 18 percont. l l 13 C AAl rig 3U. i t I A Out eno of tb thinya She. notered la nh:2 i to ~
?
l 2c olactric industry throcgh t:br ??.c3 histori::.J.lly h abre 93 j at an as indu.stry started te 'ahe the c? nadi 5 n. 9ccc0cict of I scale and co forth. The unih.s t3.C: scra 2cing incta'.luci itw;.2 22 ,
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a i 11,410 mpbl2, I But in tha scphisticatian diat caan vihh tne n j 2 industry in the loss of Icad prcbability cal:ulatiemt it 3 bacar.:e obvious that as you're expandiac a syates wie.h
'I differant kinds of generation tant you're rnally kidding S
yourseyf if you'rs just talking about a fix:!d reserva becatmo 6 the impact of the units as you'ra adding hon ac 1 thn kind 7 of units tht.t you're adding, y;23 rr not g2h:ing a firod 8 rsliability. 9 .2d
- lees of load grecahi.t.ity progrv.s hTie 10 tried ::cbake 1% co tha.t :'hcr you cru Ot*t-lyi.h? tax.
- 1y t0 i i IL 3xpe.ed the systua . thc3 .secu it lech han t -*crmen .iwcd.ni'c: I, 12 a3 2n equal relicbility. P a n a c r e e.o r m ..sy i:e o..Merec e. , i I
s 13 But the reliability is c:ccal h : f t.n all plus, 11 and one of the things that han occur::od nr:re., 0.3 we'~to 13 indicated in er.p?ading th.- ayetar: in 'ca 2can acancaical 16 ! sanner, a=d tno li.rger unita hava requir:d ae.:c addi.eic-ni ! 17 reser w. And the aconceic studia 3 tav's All i;dicattu ;ca 10 it's tren econocical to de 3% T h a . n a a fi.e.J of h.wir. ; th en 19 c tra espacity early at a 10w incr.: santal (,s.it .M3 %r' :.i an
~
20 execederths addi>.ionsi :c.rgin. 21 ,1 O On ! ';ni::*: it 1:13 *: t'to cccaci.;nc 'his d'.ar:cca ; I e 22 ! you ha to at least in part it.=c'4= rad tha fo_.lo ting quas:1 a, hat j
~
i 23 , I E'Ald '.iha 10 nqcest you to bd.cg Mm. Mar aer.3 o.2 .2 0 n - *. ; i.. g . . s l g g * , e 9 O I
*?h500 *11*223 Cf 2g CCl 2 3 f3Il J J.'.t * <hi'.N' 25 .'.
F t i + h t' E l
c-11,411 mpbl3
' perhaps erroneously associate wit *1 tao two c.c.no interva'.c 3 2 (V on page 17, but that's really incicental - on thoco -
reserves of 23 to 28 parcont, the developri:Jtt of reservos of 4 23 to 28 percent are contingent upon the - quct.e - " coming 5 on line" - unquote - of what generating star.ic.a presostly 6 in the offing? 7 The installation of r.he Soshrcok 1 and 2 units, A 8
. the Pilgrim 2 unit, :iillstono 3 nuci-aar unit, and at th:.a 9 tina ebviously -- at fic bite thah this us; weir / en it m2 to also codtingent en h hpco 1 n<i 2 urits, e.a:i th:2 Scars II Island coal unit.
l *' its .flws O 14 15
- 16 17 18 19 20 21 i
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r I l 1 11,.',12 MELTZEL1 Q Gears Ittland is tha only locail thc.t cemen into 76 mal x.s
) 2 this datermination? t .
1 3 A That's the only pool-c.ppr:ved fessil unit in this l t 4~ timo paried. The stUEC units are combint:d cycic untts and 5 is iicheduled earlier. But it is relativelf Wall.' 6' O Will the fata of NEPCC 1 and 2 cha:.go thora values, 7 23, 28 parcont?
, 8 .V.d if no, hy ahut hcu 2.uch?
9 A. I thie'.k tirat it 4111 lerar tha i:ppi.r rcr.ge, ;;h a 28 10 number, y 11 Sat it .7111 also depend on wnat tas pcci 4.ce; in 12 pleco of atoaa crite. If they have inct:11M .:::viing 13 ea-liar to tshe itc place.
'v':
;4 So it is very difficult to cay. Ou: I cal.1 guass 15 the fact that the NEPCO units arc not there raight latter that 16 ro r to tha cpper range, 25, 26 1/2, scr.ewhera in th:re.
37 Q Suppose that becauce ed an er cr in the prsccnn 18 enAmtsd grctith ::tu, or in the event cf cther decreasac, ia i gg d:cand not included in ny first conditica . under thcrn g ccntingencies wer: these values given hcra to tura cut to 53 21 t scali, tha is there is s ro escaso availabla than indicaced i hecs, what in your cpinion t,culd you scpect prcdu ,:r in ?!r.: 1 22 i
~
t 2ngland to do *iith Onr3 of shces plan;c c= Octd t0 020 On 1;.nt { e ON csCT CU cO n .ri .'I 4 t 3 IO I 43 N, 43 yI3rC 3.T
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I! 11,410 ! e i 1 nuclear capacity when it 13 availabla, ia the first thing mm2 ( , 2 dispatched. 3 There is not a focall capacity of any natura timt 4 can compctitively ccmpete with it. Go, as long as the nuclear 5 unit is available, it is going to be base loaded. 6 And as we have inlicated earlin, tla econclic 7 bensfita of that have been citad. And it vill displace -- 8 obviously New Englual haa had a r,nobisu with dorm.dancy en l 9 cil, and it wuld help to rep.uce the oil conw.pdon. And , t 10 i *here gain,tecauas of ths- resnt n'inu5 in oli. pri:w , P.cVe j i 11 great econcnic benefit. $1 t 12 Q Cn2 YM Y, trivial a.itter; en yqa 24, i litt 16, 20 ! i 13 example, what is a LOLP7
; i j
14 A That's Ebbrevi.4ted l!.ngo fer Ices ci lord ! t 15 probability. ! i 16 Q ch, this 1a the one in tan-year, that ectt of 37 thius. 4 18 A That's right. gg Q Pine. That's all I have. h nk yoc very muen. 20 CHAIFE*JI GOODIiOPH: Anythin? ?7 w? I i co
. MR. MEYER: i*es . ;
n CROS S-C'.AMINJ.TlCN Ci U;MD Fr -ir..?IC';' j
" i
, .,Y MR. ME?LR:
3 .' y Q T.o giustion LaCF.d On GCmr thi.Eg Cr. *1013 d3EEc ycur ! x_/ c5 I Mr. 3ar 3 o J. ; e
v 11/14 mm3 I Going back to page 14 of your testimony, on lines 1 14 and 15, Dr. Colo asked you a question aMut the sentence: 3 "The higher reliabilicy level, tha lo.ver the c 4 overall cost due to the early insta11a'clon of nuc1;ar 5 capacity." 4 I just want to make sura I understand yo'ur tratinony 7' correctly. What you are saying is that if you hold projected , 8 growth rates ccnstant, and you incresce your ra11 ability 3 levels, and you huild exactly to mest those relisbRity 1cv314, 10 given ante particular grevth rats the program calculated that 11 the highar reliability Icvols req 2 ired earlier installation 12 ci nuciaar capacity. 13 Is that right? 14 A The higher reliability levels call for additional 15 capacity. And in this case we ware trying to rsach cur 16 sixad guidelines, our econcmic mixsd guidelines as gaickly as. j7 possible. And the higher ra11 ability laval, tia ara abic to 18 install those units earlier. 19 Q All right. 20 Ard that means if you holc erpseted growth raten . 21 e natant but vary the reliability laval, averything 61sa haing y equal, higher.ra11 ability level hilows sarlier installation of 23 nucinar baseload capacity. 3 Is that right? g A I think thte iJ tha sh.me thing cast ! just sa ic , s
ll 11,-115 mm4 1 but I'm not positivo. r] 1 Q All right. 3 And secondly, what you are saying hare is that if 4 you compara two in-service dates, if you assu.no that nuclear 5 power plant is going to go ip Service DCmetiDO, if you Utake 6 that asaumption, then you calculate a comparison between the 7 two la-service dates, the earlier one is .nora economical than 8 the latar 'one because of this phencuena wa are discussing. 9 Is that right? 10 A p As long as New Engla.v.1 is not ae 1:3 aixed 11 guidalints, then cils helps arriva arliar, caac would b.: mara 12 *CCAC3iCdl* 13 Q And so I am correctly concluding that tais comparison 9,g like the one on pags 15 on lines 5 co 3 taat wo di.tcusasd 15 aarlisr, chis ccouparisca comparas -- cutkas cha aaswnption 16 nuc12ar basaloaded capacity is going to be inscallca, and then 37 looks at the timing and cor.1parsa tha d Lif srant timings. 13 Is that right? A I think that is essentially corrsct. 19 l g MR.ME'l2R No furthar qu33tions. MR. S; TITH: I have one question. 21 CliAI3 MAN GOCDHCPE: Mr. S.nith.
. 3*I MR. 3MITli Q S:>1rv3 back to your sans reacimony that you w.sre j i
just provicualy question.ad on, red.tr. ling to tha aconnu 21::aa (V7 25 t ! .L :
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.s. s-guidelines, I belire that you revsered := c.1974 sindy.
ens 5 1
' In raspending tc a questica
~
Ia that corract? to Dr. Callihan? 3 A :lixsd cuidelinos?
~
4 O Yss. A It was in 1977 I was quoting some values frem. f Q 1977. Ckay. 7 t 8 What is tha differenca hanveen thnt ctud-l ar.d the ! l study that's cited on paga 14, line 77 9 A Tha otady cn lina 7 c2 cagc 14, Nhan w2 talk of . 10 >- ,! studying the cos: versus raliabili'.c: s. : .tiffurcat relir.cility l 1 4 t levels, that was u. icd in the. mi::c'; qui .aliaea. re.d cach enc ! 12 8 1 of the reliability levela, if wn vue expapai,r:g the ".aau England j 13
\
nystan, we vera axpanding i:: to raeet 2M:e guidelines as 14 early as we could. g s3 So tha gttideline of tua mind ctuay was done earlier. 16 O. Okay. 17
' ~
, You plugged in cho'se guidelines to ycur ccan varcus 18 t ref. lability studias.
l 19 {'
, Is that ccrrect?
- 20 7 .
j A Yes. In c:acr words, tisu England right now is far l
. 21 !
off its econcaic mix. So m'ch time we expan tne e"stam, :e l 21 i I i-
. try co rcccgniza leac tinos. l
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l 11,417 1 capacity for any reliability lovol. r mm6 ( 2 MR. SMITH: That's all the quastions I have. , 3 CHAIRMAN GOODHCPE: All right. r
- 4 -
Well, thank you Mr. Barstow. You are excused.
~
5 (Witness excusad) 6 We will take a short recess now of about ten 7 minutes. 8 (Recess) 9 CHAIPJ4AN GOODHOPE: The hearing will be in order. 10 F First, I want to apologise 20: the confusion which 11 apparently has arisen as to waat ths subjact r.atte.r of this 12 week's haarings uere going to b2. O 13 APparently a good number of pecple who have showed O
;4 up thought we were going to talk about emergency planning tcday, 15 and alco that the hearing was going to start at 9 o'cicek.
16 It is a mi::up and I apologize. i
;7 Emergency planning is now scheduled to ccc:menca herc 18 at 1 o'c1cck on October 1 of this year.
;g A rn= W of people have shown a desire te make what ,
20 is in our rules, a limited appearance. 21 The Board just discussed it, and limited appearances 22 will be parmitted starting on Octobar lat ct 1 o' clock in the 23 aftern on, and centinuing until 3 c' clock at n:.ght, tritt s4 two hours out for dinner at .About 4 :30 to 6.30. g They will bs held an catota: let nearting ar. 1 c'cleq. l
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{ 11,418
-mn7 1 a'nd en Octobar 2nd at 1 o'cic:k cnd centinaing on until 3 o'cle-]P e~.\ ,
( f (,,/ 2 in the evening until everyone haa boon heard. l 3 We do put in the F2deral :icciar.ar a notica of our 4 hearings, and a press raloaca is icauei. I will try and get it 6 1 out at 2. east two weaha in advance of our October 1 haaring, so 65 that it can get inte the local papars and get tho cublicity l
. 8 4
'7 ao pacple may attend Nho vish ca ma!:a a linited apoaarance.
. 8 Asi no.i an going to rer.d :ho Orm iesion'a rulas.
, 9 It is cut of tha Cecmiscinn's rules of practica. It i: 10 r ,
' 10 Ccdo of).Fcdaral Regclacionc, p; reg ro.ph 'J. 7 '.3, r nn ti this is the paragraph that controls tht: 3:?rd, bac.v:nt it is ,
t2 thG C3:3182iDA'3 r21EG 'and rcg c1:ti . .s . And ' c at:nas: 4 s 3 'A cc.cscn .tho ic net a enrt.' may in tho
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J - , - 14 discretion d tna Presiding G!ficar. . . -- ar.d by t. 15 2 residing Of ficer they mann the thrzo of aa -- l 16 . . .bc permitted to r.aka a ifr:it0-1 ar.ptaranca'y c g
,' 17 :.a%in~ cral or sritton stataIcat of cia cosition en -
18 the icsucs e.t any cocsion of the hearing or 2ny 39 prehearing confcrance vittin esc'c linica 2nd cn scch 20 C 051210^8 28 "2Y D* 21* 5d DY Ch* Ff05idiU9 0 f1C"#
- I
, But he . Cay not oth3Bli33 participate in thG ,Cr0c60silaf . "
22 That is the rule ',re will _:r ::ed nni.:: Ot.crting t 4, on Oct:1'?r le and 20bOh!/" 2. -I 1 I l ?I. 'W " * *r . '.:h '.1:*. 3.n*? j ym l < . t .. . . _ . . y._,
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l, 11,119 run8 ,1 MR. SMITH: May I bo heard on this subject? m (s) -2 CHAIRMAN GOCDHCPE: Ya3. - 3 MR. SMITH: I don't mean to add to che =cnfucien, [ 4 but I thought I should say something nov since acce of tha 5 People here may not be here tomorrou. 6 I was going to, hcpefully, to:norrow addrcus tua
~7 Board on the issua of enorgancy planning and the scrd uling
. 8 of testimony and tha hearing. g m IRfw! GCO E PE: You can't aant the dato 10 changed,yI hope. 11 DR. COLZ: Are you raying C::c' car 1st : sight nac 12 be the da:s for the a cart ci that, .'i . Saf.:h?
- (Laughter.)
13 J 14 IIR* UMf238 I I" 13d1022109 Dhl
- C# *17 D8 15 some questica evei icsces chac wn s:ruld parzua among the 16 partiss and the beard as to wasthar er not we shocid go g forward on Ocr.cber 1st, y J.
* ' 5"" " * *** * *"*
18 19 g in suspense. The reason I was waicia natil tcaorrey is because tha Commission is meccing today. And as you probably are all' aware of, laat we k tha Ke:aney Cemism.on, the 23 Prasident's ccmission on Thra3 Milo I+1:.nd had acca direc :cic. with tha 2.uc14ar acqu?.atory C.nmission ubce: 2_.c ras ir. : jrecans, 24 q 1 (v) 3 which shculd oc.m,: Or go on :mic t r ' :u_r : vn.-t ..e in zu ed . - l 1'
11,420 mm9 1 Director Denton indicatsd timt ha would ac!c the O 2 co==i io *o co= ia r eu re iae=* cc==1=eie= reeue== **>= ; 3 licensing prcceedings be held in abayanca, or at laast some r 4 issues that relate to Thrae Mila Island bs held in abeyance 5 until the President's Ccomission issued their report.
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7 CHAI?#.AN GOODUCPE: Will 2ct go 'fec ;2.r?. On 6 dathrc.enOV. -Dh.nning 135U.2S7 l ./, 4-c,i
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[ it did not say that the hearing; vould ...n 3:0: n '. .
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4 dt.vid2 1 MR. SMITH: I think they Imy, as we Siti en :ha 2 Dagit hoaring, ' acid back on certaia isar.en s'tch an ancrgency 3 planning. c.' 4 And there's some c nfusi.r., a hnitudly, .:.ne.it what 5 the Cenission -- ths President's C:micsaien vented, ivgain, 6 ' I don't even kncu what the NRC Cc: siscica's Tc :;cr.ca vill ha
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10 h . i th<3y 3cd of tedcy, : nt since ;:.u nno. tia'. .u=et'. .mcr.h -- l ti as :.: eci:1, it : ouldn't foreclor.e %d.nj lain cggu cr.nces en
. ..- ter.t 02:e r thetgh.
CUA 'UM GZ0HG'J3 : I 'va dis.:u m * .dii.: .a fortc.a lly 13 ,i ja ! with tha ether n cbers o' the board, ms car fali.v ucs - t i e 5;i tLo.r c e contradict se it thsy want P.c - vaa we ei.gh: to 16 70 thead with smergency planning, and at 1:.2uc2 gnt 'a cuan of . 1s . it cnt of tha way as no cm.
;g It: =sy ba changeil a littio bi';, b;: Lev v.n: n an i,
it M c':ange:d'2 23[ 1 : gg l If tta c:.a gat au EMch tyd it C".* o '.' ti .e P.'J tw i i i :e can acv ~~ tio nich:: havn to ccoa back into end .-iah - .1 i - .
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] 11,423 david 3 1 substantially correct?
O g 2 DR. COLE: I don't disagree with that. 2 think . 3 the issus we want to cettle right neti is the lir.ited 4 appearances. {' 5 And I think the dates of Octcher . and 2-- I think 6 we should stick with that so the peop.la know when they're 7, supposed to cone so ve can at least finid. . tith tha limited 3 appearances. I think the chaff can cc.te for:s.:6 with its t 9! testi:r. ny and witnessac en esa.:goney planning. 10 . p At cht.t tiinc - - vc 'l'. c Artain.;y .mW before then -- i 11(g hnt at least wo enn har.: freu tca .co7.12. 12 i! MR. S.'i!"'R : T'.at ecul.1 '.: 211 righc. 13 CEAIRFJ.N C00020PS: 70u . filed a ruhatat;tial b s'/ 14 a!! cent of tesci3.cny en em ryancy plannir;, 2."a you not? 15 .un.. .c ur
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1S C2.UP.m.21 GCCDLOPE: Ch:'t 's r '.gh t . 20t'vo got a 17 few more days. - 18 P3. DAY: May I b3 honni? 19 CE.\I2B21 CiOE092 You. 20 MS. DAY: Barbara Day, ciniceiz. n e t C d s o w.T t o 21 r.3 that citizenc vould like to see a final copy ud w.atavar 22 daveloped and at cid be speaking to thcus r;oi:::3, ao I Cen't 23 t:i:-k ent it renid ha very practical to hev: lO2ited y ac~ ura .cu ctat.mente ada at thr: time. -2 in f?m: no l 25 i c: a :qcncy plannin; he trirqu :r' w:': q:1nt? .:: co lo *.r r d u . i l
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, s 11,124 1
t rsdavid 4 2 that tb-a. L CEAIIUWi GCODHOPE: You wer3 icing to bring scmethi:S 3 up on this tomor:cw, Mr. Smith. ou are going to cf to
~
get information this evening or what? 5 MR. SMITII: Yes. As I saic, the Camission ic 6 ' meeting today. I understand ona of th2ir subjacts ail ~ be . !
' }
7 responsa to the Kannady Commissicn. S DR. CAI.IISAN: I think, as we pointed out, this 9 hoard acts en forr.sl directiins, act en what cight *.ucpF:. 10 > This board as of thin t'r.c has no far:C d.irve.iv2. i 11 l Is that cerr2ct, Mr. ChaimW l 12 i CHAIIIfAU GCCDK002: 'fhat's crrect. I!: could b3 ; 13 h)v changed by tc?rrrew crening, but than ,t?'11 .:ava te go through 14 that at that time. 15 (Board conferring.) 16l' It's a good icng mon h off. M t'a hsop tha 17 dataa for Cetobar 1 and 2 sat as 'se irro done. it. If dm 18 Cczmission changes it, 9a 'll hava to cPr.r.g3 c:. If thay 19 tell us not to do it, or thn thing goes oct ca a ecxpla W.y 20 different format than it's set up ncw, >c'll jaat hava to 21
- canC31 thCSO ar0cS. ,
22 l And we'll althar hava the .'.ir.ited .'py crnr.co.e or j 23 i UE- tien't. If theS'S Gnctigh ".9%i.itidf., i3 7;00*2. I ,17?O'S 2.4 g with 707., .t . -- 7 t .
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..l 11,425 david 5 I CHAIRMAN CCCOEOPE: Dr. Callihan brings up a pj 2 good point:---.1f anybcdy cazae here today misled and having v ,
3 things to say they wish i.: any ht thic tJme, vs'd be willing
^ 4 to go ahead with the limited appearances now, if anybody 5 so feels.
4 I thick it would be better if te kept it all in 7 one group, one point in the record so it would be mors 8 orderly and hopefully racre infor:cti'.w. 9 So that's -- we 'll '.ewre it just that tray, unlaca 10 acr.at.ging conac up and we have to et'ceja it. 11 As Fr. Smith poista cat. he li. peubaaly acid up 12 trith something to;rcrrca. Eo derisn't .tnc1 z.I.d I dcn't kncv. 13 Anything else on thic? O 14 MR. SMI':'3: Mr. Chairmn, I nave ons othar 15 preliminary matter. 16 CHAIR'IAN CGDEOPE: I have a pr 21em. I have a i 17 question right acn. ! 18 IfL LEWALD: I have a point of clarificatien. 19 Assuming that tho her. ring would be going fowari as le 20 scheduled, do I understand that the Chair's unling mean.s that 21 October land October 2 be devoted e>:clusively to limited 22 , appearances and that vn won't be taking testi=cny on eitner l 23 data? i;I . 24 .] CHAIT'."3 C4'X)DHOPE : That 13 acrren: . I 25 . OL CUL3: Th3t iC 04r ?h L' 4WTerr . Sr., L w nlf.. i , I : I i 1
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and hopefully - <n11, if wo ::ars u hava ecce avid 6 2 time availabla - let's nay wa ran aa; cd wid2sceis sr . 3 ran out of limitad appearoes, than we could ge fonrard with
,m 4
whatever we had to go forwarl uith. 5 CIIAIRMAN GOODIIOPE: What you'ra recrried about is 6 ycur scheduling, whether to have peepio here en the 2nd or 7 the 3rd. I understand your proble. 3 We'll try and meet that then we got to it. Uc 9 c =ny havs to lese scme c'ir.a; if ua do, us:11 have to do it. 10 l > I f
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! bi2. L2;OLD: I'd liht M =rha en ciscr'.s.itica cn t 'p 13 linited app.nrancost when ::a began chose prec2cdings, tharo I( 14 limitarl appearances, and were a nt=ber of requats to = ke i -15 t then the people t:ut appearad very early in this utage IS ! took the view that they wanted te wait ceatil all cd the f 17
- evidence was in, at which tieta to maka ; '.inilad appearenza 3
13 Stattrant. ! 13 [ Well, that's allveil und gced. Out I uculd sis:mit s 1
=
20 that the ressen for offering licitad :.ppearanen statements 2" t is in part at least -- and 2 gcor.ly part too -- advice cha 22 ccamisaicn and the parties cc that they can <drcss thanasiva.
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$ to the ccncerns that ara raised by the limit 2d ar.penrnaces l 24 !
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- n. , ,L,.7 devid7 1 th2 record is cicned, and than vo, fcr tha first timo gat N 2 l mitad $>ppearance ste.tementa it rocid M s litule lata j i 3 than to address tho' cncerns that e.ra :.'.;ed, That's (n
4 CHAIRMNT GCODEOPS: I :ca cice ymir preble.I. 5 why I vanted to discuss tha limitad appearanc:.c, in hepas 6 during thosa two vaels of hearings ycn can 6 what rec just
!~ 7 uaid; you may not te :tble to do it t.%:. :ia cay ham to 8 cc=s hv:k cc ic.
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E . e 11,428 davidS a CHAIRMMI GOOD 30PE: Mr. Jchn:! cit, youis au'ted (D 2 to make a limited appearance today. I hava a little problan LJ 3 vith it. I have a Ifttle problem with it. G 4 Could you step up here, sir? 5 A have a little problem because I thini you have 6 aproblem that's not within the authcrity of this beard. 7 But go ahead. I'll give you a chance. 8 MR. JOHNSON: Mr. Chair, I certaisy appreciata s ' 9 the opportunity of speaking bedora you, and I 'Jusss the
~
10 problan that ycu' f unt r,cnticaca ac ns w..i to yot 2tcausa j 11 evarybody oise says ib's not their pro 1c::, and it ende up 12 ' hero. 13 '"ha probles that I cons 09foru the JEC on is n' 14 d. i that there 1.9 a 10 year class actica C.iacraminacian suit 15 on Pilgrim ' that obviously should be claared up before 16 anything is done on Pilgri:n 2. 17 Mr. Augustine And:cws, plaintiff in that ence and 18 a citi:La o.5 Plymouth, has dil11 gently wt wic.n nesc 19 ; fedaral agLacie: trying to work thin out hafore own Jet:ing 2D to 7eu, t 21 But va have a problem VMrr: the p.oposed ocadractor 22 in the r.atter, ?Achtel, has not rasparded to any contenicatic: l 23 ' or ccerasy ndonca taat 90 5: cat cvar a cr.*i cgo. 24 AlthnW ths '7. '.' , 32;+r 1. m 2 7 f.ntor .:2::: (m) m 23h. chn Aces i.Iitici"/2 ha si: 6<vn '.r.d n ..=: m: .a f t -d:ent
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.i ., , 4 .-.o david 3 i negotiating a voluntary affirmative actica =rcgram for 2 Pilgria 2, which is both an economic factor in this ianua , ,
.I 3 and also a cafety issue. ,
1
,-m 4 If you'ra talking aboc: taining beth mincrity v
5 folk and veman -- which is not a black list:m, but an 6 economic issue for citizens of couthoastarn > tar:Acncaatts , 7 ir. general -- we're tal'cing iout Et least soco kind of 3 planning stags with both Ecston Edison at:d acma kin.d od 1 9 approval f_7.2 the NP.C as to the. safat-f of th.acc, b.m 4 upcn IG ? 2af0t*t Cr rJCrkers in th014 %rkiT@ OCC.diciCnh. 11 j eecer.d of all, tho star.c's wcenction plca 12 :. cover: mcat of acuthesstern Cancach:.;cttu, co -6st'; th 13 crea th:t vo haves also iacen ccnsideri .g ud 'alking abent w 14 with stata anc! ft:1eral officials on cmploy:ar. md 15 cconcmic op7ortunitice. Furthor, it hr.3 tun detarminad t at c:.isunces or 16[a i 17 l 'cupayera - whichever ycu cmy chocco -- usuniy paid fcr N utility cervice natura, and certainlir cur firac cor.csrn i.; 13 ll il tg te naka sura tin.t residents of tiuscchuc06 c, if in ti.a 20 ); avont Pilcrim 2 is to be built, is affcxdui ca cp?c::tual-:y P
- 1 i of cconomic conditions and both colostents ecnditions e { iir % I
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11,400 i david 10 1 3enator Kennedy's staff: Peter Porham and Brims Deltcoy 2 (phonetic). V 3 And a ntaber of entities ta're n'.raady been i.wolved, n 4 and I guess we and up back here tiith you. Na did writa s
. 5 Boston Edison. We did get a respo.isa. "Jhoy caid it wn:s 5' not their problem.
7 I an not talhing about en the isana whether it's 8 Douton Edison's problee: or Mr. Andrw'-: court ense or uct. 9 3oston Edison do hr.$te a responsibility to Pilgrir.: 2. 573 10 wsat befora the b..ard of Selectw. 2 1:n t v.u k ,
;1 ,
Us go hadora thr: eg.'.ir tct r c> ni% t. Cnsir 12 attoa.n-ty, .t. Robert Shea (ph=cacic) ha3 ten h 't.*: i it:n.1 13 costnuni cation, who nov .v;a it is not -- d.. : .-lrar :cr in , x 14
- in the final analysia, that it is r,o tr.s tosn 'a prchi na.
15 *ris11. it ': got to be sembcdy's pr:ble:n. 16 CHAIPPJG GCCEEOPE: I n no t 2-*.ra, * ;r. J.0hron , 17 I knew exactif what the pr:bl a is, , m MR. J0EISCM: Woll, the prshim i.s :hsr. t'm:0 is . ts 11 years class actic u discri"tinatien .:ti': vi!:h 10 ether 20 people in addition 62 Mr. .V.drmra, i'rnt s.hculd ha clured. 2 Ycu don't cer. pound the problam. It saens te .-.c :':u she.ld 22 cleae the preolem b9fers you want on te n. nether , treble.m. i
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I 11,431 i-david 11 1 Second of all, EECC in '69 or latter years, after c 2 they had given Mr. Andrews the right to sua, made an a i.,l
- 3 agreement. That agreement was to be applied to Pilgrim 2.
4 So it is a federal problem at this point. 5 I think, though, they are the agency that's 5 responsible for sffirmative action for all federal agencies 7 now. And cince you are the people that have to make ;;ho 8 reco - ndations for construction permits, in obviously 9 has to come before you und the public and ac a natter of to public record as to whether wo de go. 11 No've been to overybody at thia point. Io'v3 12 tried to find out where we go. Will injua: tiro kind 13 of situatica cost constocrs additional monay to be paid (nf _ 14 in order just to hold up thenc ser plant? Or it can? 15 And thocs kind of questionn ubculd be answerad. 16 Wete brining them to ycu for you to considar in ycur raport 17 and your findings no you will be familiar enero is a problem. 10 I can ark -- answer any questionn you might havo c and I'm 39 sure if you a*. lowed Mr. andrava to npen): r.o you -- to thi.s 20 situatica a little be".tcr than I can. 21 I Speak as an advecato for both citinenn and ~ 22 consumera and in particular m2.nori+.y fal%c as it : Intes to - 23 the construction industry., y (."4MTJ7di GOODEOPM: 2tr. Johnacng yce Pind cf est na cac when you infor2nd .r.o this w.5cla aastur 3s x Jarn the O, i 25
\._/
e 11,432 david 12 1 federal district court. l
,r 1 2 MR. JOHNSCN: Yas.
Q) 3 CHAIRPAN GOODliOPE: Nell, I don't knew. You probabl/ m 4 know andI know all these lawyers know that if you go tinkering 5 around with a case that's before a federal district judge, t 6 they sometimes become very upset with that, and it's been . 7 kncwn for them to fine people and put then in contempt and 8 put them in jail for fooling with the cases that are beforo 9 them. 10 I don't know what ih the world we could actually 11 do right now. You're suggesting that =e put a condition on 12 thelicense or something lik.a that? 13 HR. JOENSON: I am not suggesting you put a conditic n v) 14 on. I'm suggesting that if at all possibla, tha NEC direct 15 some staff along with the other federal staff along with 16 Boston Ediscn to at least talk about -- we're s not talking 17 about this court case. 10 We're not -- I'm not asking you to decide that. 19 What I'm asking you to do is that since there has been to prsvious agreement made by federal agencies as to what would 11 occur in the event that Pilgrim 2 is to be built -- and 22 you are the agency who actually issued the license -- I think 23 that you do have cme role in what happena on Pilgrim 2; yl not necassarily 311 grim 1.
} 25 Dd I 'J"SS ""I remarka 'iould be mera direr ;rd to i
a
11,433 i e il david 13 1l you, towards if a Pilgrim 2 is to be built. $
's 2 And I say "if" becaUso both the Boston Globe '
(~J C , 3 and the New Bedford Standard Times has repcrtad that
' 4 Boston Edison has receised ccme $500 million toward ccustructidn i
5 activity. 4 I 6 So I assume t tere wouldbe r_nough for us to at l l ' ) t s
. 7 least begin to work on some kind of correctim censurec on 8 P1Tg~riE 2, and it has to be the resp. nsibility of some agency.
9 I don't know whather that reconsibility lias in your agency 10 or not y 11 But I do kncu it should be e natter of rOco.?d 12 before the NRC. 13 CHAIPJOUT GCODHOPE: All right, Fir.e . Thank you. m I \
\v' 14 Your name is Eddie L Johnson?
15 MR. JOSNSON: Yes, it is. 16 CHAIRMAN COODEOPE: And what is your address?
?
g7 MR. JOHNSCN: I live in Ne'.13cdford -- Matt Bedford, gg Mass. i CHAIPfL*.B GOOEHOPE: 19 Mr. Andrmic, did you hava nythp 7 20 to add? 21 What is your address? 22 .NE. ANDP3WS: I've been a reind et all my lifa horn 25 in Plyrcuth, end my qualifications -- I've been a na.=1zar 24 pips wid.sr and 7 pu 1 fittar cir. e 19 6.!, Y .e m y la I' in i [xs p- f'3d'.3rR1 oO*1rt , but I' 2 Al*D3 pr0 32; 2 * *.! c' Ors?.);ing fOr r.yralf. e l
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11,*t39 j m i. I C3AI'IC.;' CCD3 CPS: That is 0/::.ccly the substantive david 15 x 2 matt 2r that wa're going to go inia cA 00%0lmr 1 on this d 3 energoney planning, .ad th it has to d:2 v.'.ta -- thcro's a lot
<m 4 of problems with thac uhan wa get to it.
5 tm. F.IIDPS S: Maybe we'll havo to cene hack October G 13t. 7 OF.U.NCIT GOCDIIOP3: Hall, whr. alac did you hhvo S . you wantad to cdd? I v
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CE'sLJC4 OCODHOPZ r Thanh p , :T. And.c39c. 15 16 Th:2k you, Fr. Jchnscn. (3aard conferring.) 17 18 C*IA!'ULTI 000D?.0P'5 : Co you sw.t to ga.ve na tho.:a la
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11,43G davidl5 I 19.. SMITS: I did, cir. 7 2 I just wanted to dor the rec.Ord to 1cta thac
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3 today the etaff distributed to the distributed to the m 4 board and partics a responce in the Public Servica Gac and 5 ElectEic Cenpany Salon ITuclear Cancrating Station; this 6 is a resqp>nse to board's question ntmber fcur regarding
. 7 the class 9 accident at Three Mila Island.
8 It's just comsthing vu ahoulti bring ce the atcancion 9 of the board and parties. . 10 Clu.'.:O.If GOODSCPE: W tt's the f.:3h ,?f it?
)-
t1 MR. S2 TITH: The crist .7f in :.5 450 acIrd in canother 12 3. rocasding ashec uhudior .c. Chroa MilJ Zrl Ld : cc.'.60s tr.3 a 13 cissa 9 accident, snd chs respcaso by t'..: ,tc.i*f was that it (., V 14 was a class 9 accident. 15 CHAIRMAN CCCCHCP3: It was cr tras not? 16 T+ CHI'"3 Was. 1,, The other thine' I di.stributed te da heard and ja p:: tics today, a rapsr: of a citing an d policy tc..Qfecn.
~
19 This is gcing to be publicly di.:tr2nesf', L;t it 12 ;nc.icly 20 availabla n:u,.ad I dought it tron 2.0 nrcin ha :c :et'aias 21 which should bo brought to the Sea-d's r, entian. u It's a racerrien.dation cf the taa%ferce t h:n
. %a NO cm3 On n.Y.I d 3) r '.3iting .1.". d .'T..if..'i ?.ra 1 24 0.f 4
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11,437 ! davidl7 1 Dut I wanted to bring it to the attention of the [] 1l board and parties. That's all, cir. v 3 3! CUAIRIG.N GCODEOPE: What is tha purposa, just for I
'^ ocr information that this is in the sail and thera may be 4l i 5 some changes caminc up in the near futura?
8 -MR. SMITH: Yes. 7 MR. WRIGHT: tir. Chairman reinase of that 8 parti =nlar report at this particular tima - I don't want 9I to vasta any :aorc of this beard's ti=e chna is necacsary/ but 10 - Mr. Smith gave me th:.c thing, vui=h is a vict.cly pertient i > 11 to the testimony we'rre going to be ho cing, and I 'r.sv.W t 12 had a chanco to lock at it. 13 He just handad nu tha clar.s 9 thing, unich ic G O T.s ' also pertient, and in addition, when the witne.:ses tah2 15 the stand, he's going to be introducing a whole new set of 16 da.ta that is substantially different than what is contained 1,s in the final environ =catal statencnt. . 18l tion, they hnva coca acreas nau infor= anion that i 13 leads thss to change tne figarca, una that'n fins uith r.o. 20 But I've had no time to look at thia, uhatacaver. And 21 that's what troublas me, espaically r.ince many of my carly 22 questions of themse gentle an Jara going to go to this 23 very issua, ni:nboro. y C3hIPl!?27 CC00!! CPU 2 Till ri<jht, ar : you sc.in5 00 j 3 imt your mt::t panril en?
11,430 david 18 1 MR. SMITH: Yes. ("% 2l CHAIRMAN GOODHCPE: tiho are thay? () i 3 MR. SMITH: :L. 3cffer and Mr. I'antor. m 4 (Doard epnferring.) 5 MR. SMITH: Mr. Chairma , just so the record in 1 8 clear, these matters were discussed with the comanwealth prior
. 7 to being distributed; although, I will say that tha 8 d:cument is a large one -- an*. I'm not ta. ting cuay from that --
O and those numbers also -- I callod tha ce=~en nalch to toll 10 them that we had found thess: number changas. l 11 I didn't have them available, but ca toht them 12 as soon as we could. 13 DR. COLB When did you di.N. usa it with them? MR. SMITH: Friday. 'N-14 15 DR. COLE: Friday. f I 16 MR. NRIGET: Me, it was Friday that ho told 17 us thera would be some new numbern in, that tid.a thing was 18 finally coming out. 39 HR. SMITH: It was th.a first tima I hsard chout it. 20 CIIAIRMAN GCODI! OPE: Mr. Wright, 7. undorrstand 21 your problem. I just don't knoar W.at thia board can do about ~ 12 it right nott, until wr. uea what tiie ncy inforraation ia. e If you find yoursalf in a bind - t l
, , ,, l Lin MRIG7?: All ri<3ht, I'd J.ikra to do it thcu l
"' " '*"" '" *** ""'"'' " " " ' " " ' ' ' ' " ' " " "" " " " " ' I O 2$
L L t
I ! 11,439 david 19 1 that that could be a big problem. 2 CHAIRMAN GOODHCPE: We ham nothing to rule on at th il 3 juncture. Right new we have nothing before us.
'-s 4 MR. CL3ETON: Mr. Chairman, could I suggest that 9
5 the witnesses perhaps carefully characterize what the changes 6 are in their presadation so that we know what the difference is . 7 (Board conferring.) 8 CHAIRMAN GOODBOPE: Are you prepared to call your g panel now? 10 MR. SMITH: Mr. Kantor and Mr. Soffer,:;3 ease take 11 the stand. 12 CHAIRMAN GOODHCPEi Have you been cuorn beforo? 13 MR. SMITH: They havs. O 14 Mr. Chairman, as a preliminary nwtter, I believe ' 15 we had on August 15 rebuttal testimony, Professor Hare's 16 testimony. We will not be introducing that at this tf14e. 37 We'll wait until the cross examination of Professor Hare 18 is completed, 6 39 CHAIRMAN.GOODHOPE: When is Professor Hara going 20 to testify?'
- a 21 . MR. WRIGRT: Tometrow. f, 22 ,,
CEAIDKW 40tDHOPE: All right, go ahead. t
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i 23 i 24 l 25 . i i i '.L
david 20 1 Whereupon, 11,440 C' 2 , FALK KTNTOR 3 and 4 LEONARD SOFFER s 5 were called as witnesses, and having been previously duly 6 sworn, we examined and testified as follows: 7 DIRECT EXAMLNATIOtt 3 a 1 8 BY MR. SMITH: , Q Mr. Kantor, you have before ylou a dccument labeled 9
"Falk Kantor Professional Qualifications, Accident 10
, g Analysis Branch, Division of site Safety and Environmental 12 Analysis, Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulacicn."
I believe this was attached to the top of the tastimony of Professor Bare of MIT. Did you prepara this I4 document? 15 A (Witness Kantor) Yes, I did. i 16 o Have you previously filed a statement of 17 professional qualifications in this proceeding? 18 A Yes, I have. 19 Q Is this statement diffarant than the one,you M filed provinsly? N21 A Yes, it is: different to the extant that it la 22 Imore up to date than the original cne that was filed.
~
23 Q Are thera any additions or corrections '.o thia 24 particular stateraent? O 25 A ne11, ie ref1eces me=e et nz e >>=i.,nce in mue last comral years: the numbnr of 31%s I worhad on; it
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. - _ . , . . - , - , , _ _ . - _ _ . , . . _ . _ _ . , . - , - . _ _ . _ . - . . _ - _ , _ . . . . -_~ ._ .
4" 11,441 david 21e 1 expands on some of my experience that I think is 2 pertinent to the present hearing. , 3 Q The document a that we now have in front of us, 4 are there any other additional corrections to that document? 5 A No, sir. 6 MR. SMITH: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to have this 7 hound into the record as if read. 8 CHAIRMAN GOODHOPE: So ordered. 3 (The document referred to follows.) 10 y 11 s 12 l ss O 14 15 i 16 17 18 13 20 21 23 24 23 l [
;= -
7
= - - - - -- -- - - - - - - -
g i FALK KANTOR PROFESSIONAL QUALIFICATIONS
! ACCIDENT ANALYSIS BRANCH DIVISION OF SITE SAFETY AND ENVIRONMENTAL ANALYSIS j OFFICE OF NUCLEAR REACTOR REGULATION J
I an employed as a Site" Analyst in the Accident Analysis Branch, Division C' of Site Safety and Environmental Analysis, Office of Nuclear Reactor Reg-ulation, U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Connission. My duties include the eval-uation of the suitability of proposed sites for nuciaar power plants in l particular addressing the radiological consequences of postulated design
. basis accidents and nearby external hazards.
I received a BS degree in Industrial Engineering in 1958 from the Pennsyl - vania State University. Upon graduation I entered the U.S. Air Force where
; I attended the Basic Meteorology Program at St. Louis University in St. Louis,
- j. Missouri. Following the completion of this program in 1959, I served as a j weather officer for two years in the U.S. Air Fcree
! In 1963, I began employment with the Westinghouse Electric Corporation at theBettisAtomicpowerLaboratoryinPittsburgh, Pennsylvania. My duties
. included the design of radiation shielding for nuclear power reactors for both landbased and shipboard applications. I also participated in field
- , tests to evaluate the effectiveness of shield design features on operating '
reactors. - I entered graduate school in 1967 at the University of Pittsburgh on a U.S. Public Health Service Fellowship and received cn MS degree in 1968 i h- in Radiation Health (Health Physics). Following graduation I was employed by the NUS Corporation in Rockville, Mayland, an enaineering and environ-mental consulting organization. At NUS I was. invol.ed fri the environmental j aspects of siting both nuclear and fossil power plants. - I have been a member of the NRC (AEC) Staff since January 1973 and have j participated in the detailed accident analysis review of over thirty nuclear ; i power plant sites. I have presented testimony at public hearings and appeared ~~ { before the Advisory Connittee on Reactor Safetguards for several of these J cases. I am a professional member of the Health Physics Society.and the American
, Meteorological Society. I am a member of the Air National Guard and accred-ited by the U.S. Air Force as a weather forecaster. I have presented a paper on the evaluation of external hazards for nuclear power plant sites at the 21st annu'al meeting of the Institute of Environmental Sciences in Anaheim, } California, and I have lectured on the NRC's methods for evaluating population j, distribution near reactor sites for the International Atcmic Energy. Age.1cy .
l Safety. Course at the Argonne National Laboratory. l L . l l l
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s a= 1 datridt. Ii BY :.!R. G:C't h 2' C lir. Kant=r, could you elf orate on wh:2 is tho , 3 bac?qronnd nocesaary to bacemo c wa-/2c:- ic:::acter in tha I' 4 U. S. Airforce. t A It's necansar r to attend graduata level 5l 6, achoci for approxir.ataly one year and then '.e c sa:.va on e active duty in a crew with a certain 1sve.'. of crpsrience. 7' i 3 At thct time ycu rscaiva cartification er .r:creditation as s t 9 a ?.sather offirar in the U2iited Stataa Airf.:ra. ! to y tr.aat kin-i o2 faschground noC 2 'fon aced? I1 h Gradar.ta Ic731 ::ateortilogi.ad / rsas. , 12 ' C Could yrc. rx m c Cat? , i i 13 A Graduata 1cvs2.r.uce=relogical cor.rsec. 14 0 Thank you. , f 15 ft . Soffer and ?r. Xanter, for E:n purpcaos of , tg clarifying the record and bringing 1: r p 2: .*.ata, can ycu 17 tell ue *. hnt ycur roim *.it.s in .:ces.:r;. fita . cuppiccant
;3 to ths Pilgrita !!nclear rower Statien relcr.:129 - to ultarn:c; 19 sitas.
m A I was involved in tha red.n.t and preparati:n of 21 lca catorial on dealegraphy and o:rcer.a!. hh.uriu . 22 Q I:r. Soffar? 13 A 'Uitnesa Sof5ar)
! : Wity: cd :;r.O. '.i:e.t. 1 y vcr3 in b'is rc79.r1 7.nd n
. t!.:) :'.r.r. .: P1".e ci:: e,:. ;a.;2at,.va g Jit.) UY'i?ist b4gOn 3 . 2 Al'.!! ' tr. lO ;fJr ' ;J ME - >*: 7f.Odi : 'r , 'i . ',t C I'
l 11,142 ! i david 22 1 la ac longer undier my superviai:n. ,
! ) 2 :cuover, for the purpor:u of the Pi:crim alternativr: ,
3 sito revieu, I licyc acted as hic revi.+..er and supervi::or l 4 in E2at particular capacit1 l. cnd S;r i . I 6 !
. I 7,
i I 3i - 9 to > i 11 ' I2 l
'3 Ov i 14 15 16 17 18 i
e
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23 i l 2.: ! n V 25 i l l l
.. _ _ _ _ . . . . . . . . . _ . . _ _ . . . _ _ _ . . _ _ _ _ _ _.._..u 11,444 43 0 Did you both participato in the praparatica of O MADRI4N D flwa ::caponses to cermanha which relate to demography en they david rapbl nppear in the Final Supplomant?
4 A (Witness Kantor) Yas, sir. 5 A (Witness Soffer) Yes, sir. 6 ' MR. SMITH: Begging the Board:a indulgeaca, I 7 1pparently have left my bcok of oxhibitr, 4.ad I don't h we
. 8 Mr. Stocr31oy said he would
.the last cr.hibit of tha Staff.
9 chuck his transcript to nu i2 he hed the r!.'.zaer.
~
- IO I do wan : to mark for 16mtification.
5 2 I1 .ipologisa. a I2 CHAIPl!AM GCODEOPE: '2he 1:.st S ?r.if n's;:ccr?
- 13 Mn. SMITH: The lest Staff nn!:bar 14 MR. LENALDs The last Staff nerbar is 60, I 15 thi=k, Mr. Smith. But that is act necscsarily asqu:ntial l l
16 DR. COLS: I've got Staff 3r.hibit 55 en .Priday, 17 20 July. 10 HR. SMITH: 45 counda fealliar., l
- / IS I811 :.tark this as Staff Dd11 bit 35, U CHAIR:Cd! GCODEOPE: All right:. So narkad.
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22 6 rafarr3d to uus marksd j i '+
/ 0 %e . = .* e e n9 )
i 74 - *00 it!"Ohi.'.'iGO.*:icn. ) ym 1 2S IE 3;!!?C: Mr, Q.e ' r. nan s . .w.did.cist c:ptoa wra I
k. 11,445 I mph 2 stado for the Scard and partion. I do aut haJo anough far the i : 2 7 ,) Icurt Reporter - 3 I will havo onough available tomorr:9 W2'till 4
- eproduce them.
5 CHAIRMAN GOOD 40PE: Thare was como discussica 0
%at the Court Raportar only ron11y raods two copien.
7 MR. SMITII: I don *t ever. hava tuo copina, J: can O givs har ono. 9 (Handing c::hibit to tha Report:rd 10 > da. L3WED: We cra surracus." .'se, tir. 3nita. 11 MR. SMITH: Fino., Th :#. tcu, 12 Wo Hill raaku rarc.
!.,- .1 13 (Document handad to Mr. Smith.)
,r <t 1
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11 SY MR. S;C2!i:
}
P[ 15 Q Mr. Kantor, I will ack if y=a can Identify 'Inat { 16 has been marked ao Staff 2xhibit 55?
!; le n (Witneca Kantor) Yoa, I c;m id Stify ih 2a e I f 13 ' matorial pertinant to the populauic;. data.
19 Q Cauld you bc = ora cpecific ncd tail c.3, fi.ce; of i
- i. 20 all, did you prapara thic?
21 A Yes, I did. 22 , Q And could you Ball us if he firs'; :40s dcca --
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23 .. idecrJ.fy tho first pato e d tall uu whac it 10
},
I 24i A *bil, in enlicipat'.ca of gr.:a . lou: scace.csi m tca _ ; l
/ 2S [ bachgrcuad d.wslep:unt ci tca populatice .h..r. La d. a 7i2.21 !
d ! y +
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=
g I~ l 11,446 l 1 ,
- npb3 ' loment, I preparad Table 1 and Tablo 2, which shows thu l
down and the components whick ge into the final popula- . a ti. . numbers.
# The data in Table 1 and Table 2 is not new. It's S referred to in several places in the Final Environ = ental 6 1 Statament. I jaut thought that compiling it this uny would i 7 be helpful to the Board and to all the partias in i'mierstanding
. S' where the final numbers came fro:n that are shcwn in the tablu 9 in the FES, Tablo 1 in the FSS.
10 h now in addition to Tabla 1 and Tabla 2 thera is ' I t 11 also coma written matarial which would ha page 3. . i 12 i could you tell na if you prepared that and , i
; 13 .'please explain to us uhat it is? l 14 A Yes, I did.
s { 15 This raflects a revicw un unds rocantly of a f
; 16 document untitlud "An Evacuation Analycic for the Pilgrin j
17- Site, ERT Dccu:2 ant Number PlS43-1, which us raccntly recalvcd i to fro:n the Applicant. I-I - t 19. Upon ruview of that docuc3nt, which contains some seasonal racident population v 1uan uhich tars siightly f 20 ' E
. 21 higher than the enes we had used originally in our study, ws 22 ; incorporated that infcrmation into our tablas to shcw tho 23 affect if we did ucts that infonuction.
1 24 1i O iTaaro is th2t shoun? i i 25 A In Tablas 3 cad 4. l' t
u l 11,447 mpb4 I DR. CCLUs Excuse me. () 2 Mr. Xantor, this does not supersede any taola, - 3' or these don't supersede any tables in tne Final Supplement, 4 do they? It's just in addition to whatever tables are in the 5 Supplement? E WITN3SS KANTOR: At this point, yes, I Vould 7 say that's, correct. 8 DR. COLS: At some lator point ara you going to 9' change your mind? 10 F WIT!33SS KANTOR: Well, Tabiss 1 at:0 % ac's 1 bac:t-11 ground of Table 1 in che FES. IE DR. COLE: 0;tay. l 13 HIT!GSS IGdITOR: q Now Tablw 3 and'4 12:lud.n this
\_)
14
] new data, and it ocould be that perhaps it would evolve that . 15 rhay would replace Tabla 1 in the FES.
1& 8 DR. COLE: Okay. 17 So you eny could replac:3. En if thero's a
; 18 cos.flict you're going to go with Staff E::hibit 667 i i 19 WITNE33 XMITOR: *les. This rr.prweents newer 20 data. .
l 21 DR. COLE: Okay. Thusk you. ' 22 DR. CALLI 3ans This docm:uant boarc no data. ' fat l
. s t
23 , en paga 0, in chont taa scvcuth line, tacro ia a raw.ar.t i: hat !
\.t l' 24 ' sc:: Lathing rscalv.3d ;.)y tha Staf 2.: cut ths first of Au9at n i lj 25 d thi3 7402* Id "thiJ 7G40' 19797 i
l 1'
n s 11,448 apb5 ' FITNESS FANTOR: Yes, sir. 2 DR. CALLIHAN: Thenk you. 3~ BY MR. SMITH: 4 Q Mr. Soffer, are you familiar also with Staff a 5-
. Exhibit 667 l
6 i A (Witness Soffor) Yes, I am. ' , 7 - Q Did you aid in the preparation of this? 8 A No, I did not. i 9
- Q Have you reviewed it?
}
10 FA Yes, I have II Q Mr. Y.antor and Mr. Soffer, do any of the ~ l 12 strika that. 13 l MR. SMITH Mr. Chair: nan, I'd now liko to 'covia
.O 14 into evidence Staff Exhibit 66.
I 15 , MR. WRIGHT: I have an objection only as to tha
, j 16 timeliness, Mr. Chairman. But I just welcome. the fact that I 17 there is now data, nors accurata appe.rsntly than uhrt they ;
j 18 used before. So obviously as to the aubstance we have no '
, 19 complaint whatsoever. !
20 Once again, I'd just like to say that it re.sms to K4 25 inappropriate to be changing the Final Supplomant at this i 22 late date in the game. ; 23 DR. COLE 3xcuse ms. . 24 Are the necbars actually significantly diffommt ' O 2. in Seaef ===ibit es fre< these fie==ee -d eomeers me.eienee . i
11,449 mpbG I in the Final Supplemsnt, or is this just a different brsak-2 down of the same numbers? . 3 WITNESS KANTOR: Tables 1 and 2, the final 4 numbers are identifical to Tabis 1 in ths FES. Tables 3 and 5 4, which incorporata newer data, result in density factors 6 that are slightly greater than the ones shown on Table 1 of 7 the FES. . 8 However the extent of the difference is not 9 significant enough to change any of our conclusions in the 10 FES. > 11 DR. COLE: Thank you., 12 DR. CALLIHAN: Mr. Smith, can you tell us p 13 pracisely the purpose of introducing this into evidence? V ' 14 MR. SMITH: Yes. 15 Twofold: 16 One is that the witness believes that Tables
'17 1 and 2 would aid not only the Board but the parties in 18 -
understanding the Final Supplement. Thu introductica of the
'19 written matarial that accompanies Table 3 is that us'd like 20 to bring to this Board the most recsnt information; an stat 3d
, 21 in page 3. The Staff is than st smpting to gather this 22 , information. The report was not available, n.d it then 23 - became available. 24 The numbora are apparastly better nuscora en d 2g transients than what is use.d by th-3 Sta ff, And to giva a =cro l l
't i.
l
Q
.,,m,v mpb7 I accurata pictura the Stafd used th:ce zun:c.:s and calculitsd 2 ';2nlatira dor.titica ni so On, and put i';
hou it affected , 3 togothar. l 4 It derts not chtnge cc concluainna, c.= atsted 5 by .W. hter, but s'-a ecusht w could p 2t loE% all informa-0 1 tion that's relevrt and pertincat upon ac tdi2g. 7 D.% CM.LIID.N: Do tho dat in Tab ha 3 and 4 8 replace ecsathing that's is the 7inc.1 St;;1er.c.nt? 9 MR. SMITH: h' ell, a.: indir M i by 1r. Kantor, 10 th 5 bles would - tn nur ces h the M_:bs 'rculd Onango, i 11
' I if I x2 ccercet, the sea:cas:1 ; cpu.'c.hacn diEnr:s can u.a
~2 fcusd in cha Yical Suppincant. f 3 13 ' D?.. c".1riMI: Ic thers r.ccething i.3 2.a Fir.nl V '
13 Sucpint to tha .?inni I 'rir:cr.:.ntal EMts:LLE unich cocid t i 13 bo ripptd out a. d Tablas 3 and 4 jus c b :.'.3 ':Mrd? , I i i 1o i , m. .,, ,..~.r: ,: H v
- a. ...n..
u dr. tr..
- m. f..
.W . .a.. , .s..L~ 4h.-- .
l 17 i MICH2SS ra0R: I '2. ink Cru 2.s 1 of tha FES, t
- i. 1 3,- which shows the ?ilgris n. oc. ulatica :'.ia -13utd.en rad c. c.p 21atico i tl
!S ! dist.ribution fer the Rock.' ?oint site pznintic d t .:culd !
20 he breu7ht up to data by inclusica of tho 6:.ta which i.: is i i 1 21 T:blos 3 and 4. So I would anticipato that 12 a sup.pl.:.: scat i
, W Mm W 4 eme m'e. p .. W M4 23 ES wedd .t that ':ina ha 5::ught up to iste ::o r..tzlMet tha 74 *,
..,.,.,.*,6.,
3* k W = ( 25 !j , u?.. CLLEJ : ;c d a u D ::o 2:u2r c' 2 2 2.:a 12 d a 18 4
+
c- . . _ . . ,., - _ , - - , . _ . ~ . - - - - - , - . - - . -
r o e. 11,451 1
- cpbS Tables 3 and 4?
) A WITNZSS 1:AUTOR: Yca, cir. The last two colunns .
3 show total population and density. Thr.a are tha two colccns 4 that would appear in Tabla 1 of thu 5'inal Supp1renant. 5 Ma. 3: TITH: Mr. Chair.wn, 7. apologiaa - A C3tJ.r&.Au GCCDHCP3: Wall I':: act su;s taat - i 7 ' Mr. Wright, did you really chjers *.o 1* 1
- - 3 112, W1UCHT: NO. !
O CIIMRMNJ GCCD30PS: I apprecii'.ta your '?4 int, it
, 10- shoultf have been gimm tc ' jc' ,
I : MR WICCETs It' a cr.1'1 hha tin.':lla.tcr..
- i ,
' i IE CHAI2:3.N GOODUO2.h le: 1cag :..: 20v Iv;.d an appcr-12 tusity to study it befora toda1
(~') v i 14l All right. staff E:.:hibit 55 1.3 rcccim:i. i 15 (wherar.: pen, th.: docu:2ent ' i 16- pr.svicuely nark <1 as j 17 Str.i! Er.hihi: 2 55 was - la ' rocai'.2.d is evid.ecs.) i 19 Ila. SMITH: nr. N m m , +.s2 p .cl 1.s n:V i t 20 avciladia for cross .r raination. . 21 C3AIRW.N GOCC302E: LIr. l.c.. cal 17 23 ' w MR. IEC: Mr. Chai nc:2, we g:101.2031y gecM . iI 23 j. away waat va ^2.cught ws cf.s o'i cur t10 c0pisc, cd I find t. (! 1:4 j!, 04t that V1s gaVO ak.*a'f 03'r culy C07f. 7, ;g e ,
'L) 23 ,C (2.CC16h hiadcd to Xr 1.n".711d.)
i i'
T. 11,452 mpb 9 I MR. ISTALD: So if I might hava c. minuto, now, 2 I don'P. believa I have any questi0na. . 3 (Pausa,,) 4 CICSS-HXAt4INATION s _. 5' 3Y MR I. EWALD 2 I Q Sir. Kantor,1 coking at both Tables 3 cad 4, and 7 the source Isttsrial is S&W. Tabla 2.1-3. And I quoss my 3 question is winsthier or not the nuabara tu.c appear la Tablas 9' 3 aod 4 are in that actrcia r-aforanced? 10'l .g (,qitagna mtitor) Ths numbers is tho rulcrce. c, If ' tho na? &mn3nt, are contained la eclu=a n., T.M an.W ra la 13 , Co?..mn is are from ti:e 753., 1 13 -Q My qtustica in whather or not tha SSAR nutours 14 are from - which ycu indicato scurca cau ~ .ua fmu uhat 13 you indicaba source two is on Tt.ble 3? 16 A In fact, tha am' docar.Ent 4ca.s inclado par:4acent 17 realis=t data that is idantical to PCM Tablu 2.1~2,. 18 O So it would ba fair ta cay snat tha 12 EAR ::ahla 19 wculd ba a 33conda:f courca for has num: ars that appear in } 20 the Ec documsnt. 21 A I would ccnaidur it a prir.arv cource = aald, 22 ; Q ' fell, it's hcth tha sc== 4 gutna is what I'n j 23 i scling. ' 1 . s , tal : A Taac's right. 25 C An.#. ths PCAR Tabi.a 2 1-3 h-la ba.n ; it.attt.:r of i t . 1, i
11,453 I mpblo record for uome time. It isn't cc.~: thing that was filed o d yasterday. 3 A Yes, it hc.s. And it's identical to Colunta A in (_ , 4 Table 1 and Table 2. 5 Q So it would be fair to say that the EFT document 6- is simply a backup with the.PSAR table? 7 A For permansat residents, yes, sir. 0 0 .Md not for the rest of tna colen? 9 A 5: ell, alm for Colute B. T+1-so the ERC docmunt ! 10 g,_v,s to a population within five ,tuse only. I t' C iM I understanei frera f i cur prior anwer de.t the 12 rest of the 6ata that 1ppears en 32.blan 3 e.nd. 4 vec 6.0 talo?a:1 l n 15 by you and your associeta-s froid the Staff frca site trisit U 14 information end the Appliennt's Envircerwat11 Re3rt? 15 A That's correct. The popultstion information in tha 16' Tables 3 and 4, with the eNeeption of ti! A 741us.u 3 data vi'.hin 17 five milo! which corces frem the ERT doctmnh, CM PNcA ccmas , t 1B ,i fret C'le PSAR, tha .hvironmental Repo.*;t ind oths inforw. tion f 19 geh-mred by the Staff. $- 20 The only changea beiwaen Tables 1 and a cad 3 and 4 era chme J.n Colcan 3 with.in 3*;co 30 fiva nilua e tha t . I
, ceasen+.'. :.osi-%nto within aero ho fi'us sils4 Thet'.i tha i only differsmes. '>e::i-mn tha :.sh'_w., j G ';.7md. you l i
f1 y me-nw ec.or.=nn- xt, w. igre , go shs.4. i i
l.
..,,39
.L 4 1
. m.ebli BY MR. WRIG'T: d
')
(., 2 C Just fc110 wing up ca that vary briafly, Mr. Isantor 3 ^ you say that tha changes bc*.fr.ea the tio Colu:an Bs are only k between =ero and five :nilas, is that cor:Oct? 5 A (;dikness Kantor) That's corrcet. i 6 Q And that's becansa the 3nT repc-t that you 7 ~ recaived racently only coes out to fiva milan, is that
- 8 corrsct?
3 A It's a $ct:112d smalysis of thc.'.'epn!.atic withis 10 F gg73 3;133, 11 < <; s .a. t..i. .s. -g ,.. c c -.. o_, , .
,. 3, 3..
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l' Sc if tho 13RT wara to do a r.acorS out to 33 13 milza, in other words a fiva to ten mile rangn, a t.23 to 14 dianty nile range end a t:r=ty to thirty '4 ' a 'tr.gc, as i
- 1 17 don 8 t !:scu at this point wht.t the results of that *doui.d bo. l l
16' A That's corract., It could po :ibly change tho - 3 l 17~ Q It c:ald chang 2 the etner figurss. . i. 18 A - tha other figursa. :?a'd ".av 4 to canck ':sen.4 i
., i 19 I. figurca against other cou ccs. .t d ths-f tra -c =c resse:abla } -
I 20 istarpretaticas of the scase el resident dcta. I t i
. 21 C Which figuras are you t2?J.in; about?
22 .a. Thn c2:= neyond th: fi?c T.lco i .
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11,.155 mpb12 I A I would say in the past year. 2 All right. Q 3- But in any event, prior to the rocsiving ol this? 4 (Displaying document.) 5' A yes, 6: Q I assums you also checked out thost othar 7 sources from sero to five miLss?
- 8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q All right. 10 > And e.t that time you didn't :saks ':.? Shese Il diffsrsnees? 12 A Mo, I didn't, 13 Q I think mai.ybe I'll get back to thia later . n. 14 I'm going to address most of my qusstions I 15 guess to you, Mr, Kantor, becauss you aru the p+srson that's 16 most directly coneseted with the 911grf.m sites, 17 If there's so.riething' you want to add, of course, 18 you may jump right in, Mr. Soffer. 19 A (Wituees Soffer) Yes, sir. 27 C3 AIRMAN GOODHOPE We're micniaq you up harby
. 21 Mr. Wright.
22 MR. WRIGHT: I'm sorry, 23 BY MR, W2IGtc: 7.4 0 @M t *3 'l ?Mlhain8 af m-d: tor, :c. JianMr, yo4 25 sc.y you wer%si on the d.vtcgraphy and .utarn.V. hazarda7 t I l
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a 11,457 1 1 mpbl4 Q All right. l '
) 2 And I .usuco ~~ Ncil, lavs 1stk O.t han tahls 3 '
on pago 4-61 of ths Final Supplcnant. It's 2cblo nutbar 11 4 on 4-61. 5 DR. CALLI 1D2i: Tabla 11, Mr. E<right? 8 MR. WRIC:1T: Yan, on paZo -61.
~
7~ DR. CALLIIG.N: Thank. you. E' EY MR. WRIGliT:
} .
Q :Icu if Ii= not mist ht.:n,, this is I. list of all i IO I of the datet:Is in r. rcthsr arrm.":y fashion, but 4 list cf all I t 11 of the factors that go into an altarnativs sita:2 3.nalysis, is f Cd that correct? s G A {Witnasa Itantor) I did =ch 9:spara this tabla r i 14 j! but I believe it's a compilatica cf tnz varicus factors that 15
- era considersd during the stusy of tha aPx:nritivsa sitos.
W Q Okay. 17 i .bd ca=cgraphy ic Onn si thrn. in that ccrrect? 13 A Y:s, zir., 19 I O All right. I' r 20 1 3:d descg::phy, as I caid besfare, is thera co I 21 that scos reading can ha ehtcicod e.s ts the population at s i 22 'g1 rich in tha a'Jant of a sc lcar accidcnt, right? I t i 23 i . A P.iz.ne., ' t 24
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, 2 Act 201'Ja a00icanta that y :U'.8r.t c0ccarne . chett g at ,
u) 23 !I ir.cluda Olsca 9 accid.m':c, e,:-callec? I
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mpb15 A They include e fu.'.1 epcetr= cd roasibla accidants, p s' 2 . 733, 31r. 3 G Including class 5'1 4 A Yes. 5 Q And could you perisaps charscheriz3 what a 6 Class 9 accident is for usi
'l A W il, I thin.k it'a dMin9A .Q1 10 CFR Part 30.
i 3 It's also given in R+7ulfr.orv Gei:ia 4.'i, I aslicite. M d the t Sl t actual definitic.n of it - l 10 ' 0* I*.a no t 1:alkin g Y?on t jraod.M. .c. q , .5 :2 tsiking i 1* rK. a%vit - i
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13 MJ av. wr.iu s it'.s sa ac:L%cc b.y: cad thu~ 14 desig.s basis of a plant. 15 ! t G All rifnt. 16 i: Md it i.amolves, does in . cob ::02r.e .:12d o.! 17 gl hrced. .af c.:stiinnwuc? i I 13 d. A '.J.all: Misra +.re various tf.incJ of.:rmgerisz cd 15 b Class 9 acid,sats. Join 40 invol te breach oi 20sta.'.ar. eat,.
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l 11,459 mpb1G 51R. I. EWALD: Could we ha.ve the questic: St:.ttd l O
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1 V hafora the answar arrivas? Uc'va got hc.).f u. annusr c vling . 3 out, the witneos is answaring, and thea the nort quostica 4 cemes on before ho stops. 5 MR. WRIGHT: All right. I will sisu do.m. E ' 3Y MR. ', FRIGHT: 7 Q New in tv.mm of assessing tra cn:.sog's.ncas of a
. 3 1 acclanr accidant, did ycu look Lt any 0*..cc.: factor other unen occulation dv.sity at ::aess. varicco cirst?
9 l. r to I; A (Nita:cc r.anter) I:. ::.y rs.v1.a then ucc tno l' 11 - pri.ut.rr .tre::. cf rc.vu.. . IEl' Q So you di6.'t 1co;; an nay cP..tew d ctoit. 13 A What aro thy fustorri you 2 :a { I'm cet sura. 14 referring to? 15 As part of my revici I alsa ec::.af.derad the i 16 rastcorciogy in fdta ricinity of the - or si ca p ",1cular i 17 s12:ss a'co. That's ancitur dactor., 1 13 i Did you lock, for <ncfm1Fs, c4% .rd.?ic f1w in cad Q f t+ i' around e.= cie.2=? I 20 ., CHAIPJiMI GCODEC9E: .?raddi c f1cu ? I t 21j. tiR. WRIGIT: 2 ss. i, 22 1 i!T:ESS rue 3Rs ::c, I dic not.
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a1;I Q Did you lec% =c reid capi:x.ty7 . (} ll t v :3 tj A mc.tzc.m x.:n: .c) so,
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l. _-,4GO j l 1 1 g ::o. b17 I '.aink what you're reh: ic.'; to ia an cur.7m,cy
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plan c=ci evacuatic:, crd that uca 1 ca:.>nry.i . 2Viaw tree. ir. I which I <. lid act - 1 I 4 0 I'm culy. talkineg acti chout your esaly:in o:i the 5 consaquencc:: of an c.ccide.sh ad part of tha al:urnati.ra oli,cc : i i 0 cnalysis. 4 7 3a, SMITH: Mr. Chairran, I bi;.*,r.vo hhs.t tho 8 Staff pecitics on hunt is found in ?)pc_*:.. 2. 3 l. 3Y 4.te 3v ft.'.3.Y.s1*2.r'.s e . J i.t
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x 2 Let me read some ching to you, then, 3 In response to 'cle Ccraon*,icaith'a "curmont idla?.
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i a class 9 accident should - eitcuso r.ie -- a Cie.ss 9 accident 5 analysis ahculd be und setaken, you responded - End I'm 6 reading nou from 2 4 fourth paragraph devn ca page 5-7: 7 "As a general responus, the Etaff ste.te.s
- 3 that ca assesunstst o.d the Pilgrin sii:a in the 9 alter:9thi4 si.tes hac been nada in :ho D3 F:i:3, i b# cP. COEq?ared thG rela.ti'IH di Sh ' COO in b
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a, 4 LGuidG'. h Co7S'.:q"."JC30 110r tCCi'icut? duri13 4 en I
' I CLaS3 9 TJ'!:?A , Old. 3 *:C'lital" ~ '
I3 p] L l Acd this is the poi.st I ve:S t: c2 you erbcu% g - i "This review based en recoa.c.issarca j 15 i lovel information used the p pulation and i 16 popul:.tica density in tuo vicinity of s cito j
.I U ,
13 & ICOCCurt Of the r*312ti'#.1 dog 3ii".Cd's Of IS l potontic.1 consqued*:os. And tlm Staff has , 19 dotaruined wh!.:thar thera are situn that have j t 20 I
; significantly lowar accideat ccaces ;noco i . 21 than On Rocky Point aito." l -
i 12 !' In cr.her words, ycu used 2.':tning but ralativo ,
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1 22 i population de.aity in ranking a dr,c.ernicci. ion as ha accident i
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et 24 N. 00n%d.0,nGnCoG y 13 thah OOrrO<f$ I 9
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s 11,462 1 arpb 19 =crrect.
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I O In regard to what factor? 3 A The evaluatica of tha populatics diatribut'wn . 4 A (Witness Scffer) Can I clarify sc :ar.niag? 5 No used population in relatiemehip to proximity to the plant, and zwtaoroicgy., ct; Mr. Kanter hw alltid cc 7 previously.
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8
*<ccid ycu toil ae hca you usca mat:ccroicgy?
h: D II - A (>fihms.a Saraor) 1.%11, he - nyt.a.x. .0a sonoral
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ME""'"" E"^/ 1 liR. LDIALD: I r.m going *c object to this lit.s of (, al T9 2 questioning. Thess witnecsas aro 1.a.co becauce they ::ere , 3 the witnesses that wara active en the danographic aspects of ( 4 the FES. That's the culy renaon why they ara here, t0 5 tastify on this subject. 6 Ilow Mr. Wright keeps anking them whathur they did
- 7 anything elsa, implying nothing cine was doner by the agency with 8 raspect ec cafety consideraniana c2 the site, iniczy analysis, or environmental cuaiysis cc fa.
- .:103.
9[ 10 iI y I don * : .' acN '.nicr e ch.; 'q.:. L - - 4~ 50127 ?,vi.cusi:( ll l 11I thay hav.in't dona cala 7 ruciess el Chr ;ts i, f.;r !.n:;tt.:ca, l 12 l 1 cf Ch:7t:ar 15 of tec2 ?h. Thsy t er/W a 1; nv a ns.shar of i 13 l thingc. Their con: cat:2 tion ta.s b.cn ca pcyclczica G l 14 i censa.darations and I think tr.ie is argur.:n; it ha i.s di.;acti.sc 15 hi.s questions to snd askialg tLaca wizascoas, #2 vo -tou :'.one i 16 anything elce to considur populaticn?" 17 :c. WRIGHT: I? I usy re per.n, :It. Chl:.rman? i 13 -i CLIPEi CCODZOP2: Y e' .s . 19 tiR. WRIGHT: I am cenecrnai enly wine. ;.ae j i 20 alco:nativa sicas analycia and caly uith chs utant co <hich i 21 i che problam of accidzat con saquencaz ,cs loc..:ca ac t.*ic I I
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11,464 raa2 1 relative accident aanlysia. j 2 So far wa have established de.aography ar.:t a certain , 1, 4 3 amount of nataorology. And ny only question *.sca, in thor's (^ 4 anything more than that. 5 I suspect tha ann'or is no, and at thi.s point in 6 time I will go on. 7 CHAI7. HAM GOODiIOPE: I overrule tnia objection.
; . a iie understand theca ara lialted vitnenses.
9 MR. TEtinLD: Mill these uitnescas speak for the 10 Staff y a whole, er do the apeak to tthan they did? I 31 CEIF/t.N 000DE0?E: As fr uc au concerned,uhey a 14 Scar.k for 8<ndt tha.v di.~i .
. .g3 MR. SMITH: I think OS Mr. Wright. Cid , Mr . Chair:Rans ja we are cross-dremining ar.d present testim %:y on altarne. live , 15 citas, not the salocy analyaic hhe': went inco the cine i
16 criterf.a et cetera for .?llgrim Unit 2 ?.O ib.a proposad ni e. 37 CHTI?RZdi C.? AID: That's anoth.':r scitet :::ctt r . alto:2trar. IS - 39 MR. SX2fH: Yes. 20 CHAIC W1 GCODEO?E: I thi:2 we ara all e. mra of that.
. El Do you have une quecticn, ?.r. Kanter?
4 I o.m .* w =4' 22 e 4. e %* .
~ f 23 , cc page 3-G of our respen :me. Me 3taff dee: :7
, 3,, . t i M a !"taid - _:.44 . Jct ' d - " * ' fc'*:OlatiOn dist:"i -**.tiO 3 ard. -I w 24l') 25 w .a.a w~~ u = .;r:.= =^~ sea mr= ,..ta
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I 11,465 Inm3 1 consequences.
,m 'tuj I 2 BY MR. WRICHT:
3 Q All right. Fine. 4 MR. LEh' AID: I'm going to objccc to thase conenents 5 to what tha witness is saying by Mr. Wright. If the witness 6 testifies to something,then the testimony chould stand without 7 Mr. Wright saying, "All right," "Okay, char.'c great."
. 8 Let's have those contents stricken.
9 CHAIRMAN GOOLHOPE: When he said that what he meant l-10 'sas, ulytt he said '.es fir.2, that answers my quest'.on. 33 MR. WRIGIIT: That susvers my question. 1 e 12 CHAIP29.N GOODUOPE: Go .thead, it. Wright. MR. LEWAID A The way he wanted it anstrered, or -- p 13 v 14 MR. WRIGET: Just that hs answtrad it. 15 MR. LEMAID: Can we have him instructed not to hava 16 e cmants aftar the witness answers the question. 17 CHAIRIG.N GCCDHCPE: Just let him answer the 18 19 20 0 . x, ym obtain.xi population figures for
. 21 y ur particular analysis from the Envircr: rental Report prepared bv* the applicant? l 22 i i
23 A (Witness Kantor) Some of ocr firjures came frem 24 . the Envirormental Raccrts, ~veu. I l h'- as;
, 2 All right. !
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11,466
- mn4 1 And the PSAIt?
1 A Some came frca the PSAR. b' ' , 3 Q The 1978 update, so-callec?
^
4 A Well, in addition to the PSAR and Envirer.mant;al 5 Report, there was a 1974 Siting Study which included a 1978 5 update. ~ 7 Q I cae. s And in addition to that de.ta, all of which au I g understand it was cuhmittoi oy the Aoplicant, ycu also obtained 10 you on figur0s froo the UniMd Statss Census 3crsau? l
;g l A We chtained data frca varion.: acurcea as a mora cr i
12 lkss indecendent chcch 02 the data w hnd racezivea fr a the a Aoulicant frca the licasing docmnents. g This included Bureuu of th.3 Census data, data frca the Ccmmonwealth of Massachusatts, and data fro;u regional 15
/ - ' piarming centnissions.
16 Q 2nd mosr. neancly you havo received this so-:alled is T ,,o ERT doe. ment frcal tne Acclicant? A Yes. g _ Q 'Aow, from all of thosa data .:ources, yo:1 ?!cre to able to construct your cwn figures ac to surreumiir.g xoulation at the various sites? y - - A. ha. that's correct, pr "*-ilir 2:r ths Pilgrim 23 . l alto. The to::natica ci,;ribuulen Mr the ethw
- y. - -
O t/ 25 alt s:nar.iva ait..:s *;%~a y.rLur:.ly , if :.= : gazi: 2'.y , i: u.
> I I l 1
s
..l 11,467 Icm5 1 the Applicant's data.
l 2 Q Was all fromthe Applicant's data, you say? 3 A Yes, from the 1978 updata, which we indepaniently l 4 checked. But the numbers shown in the final cupplement are 5 the numbers that were subnitted to us.
- 6. Q All right.
~
7 Now as to all of those other sites except for 8 Pilgrim, the data you received was not broken down into 9 various sectors, was it? 10 A y No, it van not. 11 It das prasented in a cumulative fashion. 12 Q All right. So wo i we radial rings for each of 13 these sites, is that right? (2e mile, two milo, three mile, 14 that kind of thing? 15 A (Nedding affimatively) 16 DR. COLE: I don't think the n0d will come through 17 in tha transcript. You havs to answer yes or no. 13 WITNESS KANTOR: In the 1973 data which was submittr c gg to us, it was presented in a radial fashicn as a function of 20 incremental distance. 21 BY MR. WRIGHT: 22 Q So you don't knew then where the pepulation is 23 , distributed within each of those rings for those sites ocher yf than Pilgrim? MR. SMITH: C- 25 I objv:t P.o the form of ::ho question. i i,
1 l 11,463
- rms 1 On scmathing that is in evidence, "You don't know" --
2 CHAITRAN GCCUHO?E: Well, the question cculd bc , 3 asked, de thcae rings snow whera chose pacple actually livo 4 within the ring. 5 Is that what you cre acking? 6 MR. WRIGHT: That scunds lika a fina tray to . gut 7 it, Mr. Chairman.
. S 3Y MR. '.lRIGIP_': , 9 i0 Thcon rings 2ctually she'i where t'.io ;*ecplo live 10 btwithin caph of then?
tv A (Witncas Yantor) Nci tr.ny dc not. 12 As part of cur .:ts'rir,i, ca indapandancly ran our o s 13 }l own 1970 Cansas pregran wnichgives us tl.a -Opulation dist-ibu-14 tion as a fu' action of distanco and directian in a radial 15 fashicn. 16 0 Is that information contained in the . lina.'. 17 sup?lesent? g, A l'o , in is not in tha final sur-pimient. 19 Q Ncw, as to the -- let's look at the. Pilgric 20 sit,::ation and the surrounding population th=re. 21 A7 I understand it, you usc-d a nxtlar of diff arrnt . u, catzgeries for tho surrcunding population, incicdf.ng por ar.ont y recidcn = and s easonal raaidanus. t' g },. a- .v ....,. 4_. . ,. _. , e ._.u - i i
- i. )
s
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. uusd hc ez prir.af.*y :x:ogarie ;: ' % m 'i u s a7 0
i
, j 11,453 y
permanent residents, seasonal residents and sactsonal tourists
~T r visitors. Three primary groups.
(d . 2 Q And that last category, acmetimss you call that day trippara? 4 Is that where that tara comes from? 5 A Yes, sir. Day trippers would be included in that
. category, , 7 Q Imd befera actually comparing this population ' :o tha other sites, you weighted it, didn't yat?
A Ya , sir. Ma voigated scaccral r u ident ceaucadi 10 >
'.ransient population.
H 0 All right. 12 , Now, What is the Jeighcing faccer that ycu uwd
- 13 1 for seascual residents?
14 A Cur objective is to get c -- 15 0 I didn't ack you that. 16 I asked you what is tha ? eight! c.g facter? , 17 A The unighting factor we uued for saanor.a1 residents 18 was 25 parcent, whichreflect the aasumption that enc 19 seasonal rasident lives at this iccation for roughly th 02 20 months, full tice, cut of a year.
. . 21 O Okay.
22 .
- And wnat -- se in other v.'Orde, der nur:penaa el I
23 [ l l t cecparing the populacion at Pilgran with th.c c c r sia:u. you i i ' 24
%Culd COOGt a 336.CCna1 reJident, d ; i .iontQ ci a p.;;;c;i,'
1 ( e { t b h *
.'a F i
- i. ;
1, . t
k. 11,470 t mm8 1 A seasonal residents were weighted by 25 percent () (3 2 at the Pilgrim aita,and also at three cf the other alternative ; 3' sitas where seasonal rasidents were included also. ( 4 Q Wh'ich three were they, pleasa? 5 A These were the sites located in the coastal regions, 6 sites 13, 19 and- 20.
. i 7I Q Alvt other than that, you did not weight for . 8 season?
9 A That's correct. 10 Q> Now, t(nat is the weighuing facter that you used tt for day trippers? t-z A For day trippara the factoe we used tras .33 fm 13j percent, which is roughly equal to cna day per year. U 14 Q Is that three one thousandths? 15 DR. CALLIHAN: Excuse me, Mr. Wright. Will you 16 give that weighti.g factor agcia, please? g7 WITNESS MNTOR: .33 percent. gg DR. CALLIHAN: .33 parcent? 19 WITNESS nNTOR: On an annual basis, wnich is 20 equivalent to approximately one day one of 365 days.
. 21 DR. CALLIHAN: Thank you.
22 BY MR. i4RIGHT: 23 Q Jusc 3 I uriderstand it, 1.2 that also aquiva. Lent i g i to three one thot.iaa:xiths? - O Q) 25 M I ccmc? I l
I j er.9 1i A (Witness Kantor) It uculd ho .0033.
.( 2 0 So that means for avary thcusand r.cocle viciting ,
3 Plymouth Rock, you would add three to the Pilgrim figuras? 4 A It would bc .aquivalent te a full-tina annual (\. 4 5 cccupancy of three. 6' Q There is a statsment at page 2-32 of 6hs Environmentt 1
~
7- Raport that more than a million and a quarter people visit f
. c.: Pilgri:s --
you don't hav: c le: : it up - .acra thau a i
. 9; million and.a quarter pacpl.a viait Pilgri2 1.nd its hian :rical 4 ?
10 sittvJ spnusily. 11 Di that an aucu ate figura, sc il1 y:n anyi
; I , 12 A I ballsve I have rcenthat di:Jm:0 in t.'a Savi Onnenta.
_ g3 Raport. 14 1 However, I have alco vi: sited che e.rca, had 15 conversations with Iccal .c1;n.ning officials .ind Ch:,rher cd a 16 CCN'arce c2ficiala, and the' r.u:Lcera I have gotten en the 37 annual numbur of visitora ranga anywhera .drca 300,000 to a i jg { millicn, on that or.".er c2 magnitude. jg ' C In any event it was ths App;:.irent's af.missi-w. tc 20 you that chore tms zers thr.n a million and a gnarcer pacpla
~1 visiting --
n ;- ! helieve that 3annnes ib in *hu 5.-[irud.nal
~
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r\ 11,472 mml0 1 percent of a million and a quartar, or would you look at tho 2h peak tourist influx for ona day and thren taka .33 percent of O) 3 that? 4 1 MR. LEifALD: Or nona of the above?
': i 5 I BYI(R. WRIGHT 4 Q Or none of 'the above?
7 A (Witness Kantor) Our method of obtaining an 8 annual avaraga population, we look at tha annual number of 9 tourists or short-term visitora, multiply than by a weighting to factor yhich in this base is tna .33 percont, to get an 11 annual equivalant population. j 12
- Q That doasn!t quita answer my Tacttion, 13 *Jhich of the figures did you use?.
O 14 A tiell, if 'you ref ar to Table 1 -- 15 Q Table 1 of -- 16 A This 2xhibit 66. 37 Q Yas. 18 A Column D shows a tourist, which is the general j9 category for day trippars, short-term visitors. And it says 20 0. hat we used for 1985, an estimata of a total number of 21 942,500 ~ visitors within five miles of the Pilgrin Site.
~
22 'Q So within fivs miles of the site, ycu used g 942,M0 people as the total numbsr of tecrists. y And then: what you addr.d to the population column ,
'[ g fcr the Pilgrim cito would b3 3133, is that r.orrecc?
e b g
.;, !';I v
/ 4.
t 11,473 ! 4 i
- 111 1 A That's correct. -
(m) .2 Q Showing a weighting of 942? '
%) '
3 A Shoun in column E. l. t
, s 4 Q Mow, Mr. Iantor, you have had a chance, I
' l 5 assume, to look over bhis ERT report fairly thorcughly? j s 6 A Yes, sir, I have reviewed it. ' ,
i 7 Q Do you have a copy of it with you?
. 8 A Ye3, I do. 1
( 8 g G 'fould you got it out? ; 10 p M. WIGHT: Mr Chair.v.in, ccia ins san". te all 11 o! du parties. I don't know 11 tha pnxil ha a it or nor.. 12 CHAIZ'mN. GOCDUCi>H : -*w , wo it'?3 i :. 13 Wacuation A.uly:ais? 14 M. HRIGHT: Yas. 15 C3A.G4AU GOCDECN.: I4 hava it, ync. iS MR. Wa! GUT: As I undscatand it, it is going to j 37 ho introducal at a latsr ti:r.a by the :ltall. t 7g Is that correct? i 10 ' I f.ta. Ci!T'l: 30, ApplicInt. i l s.u MR. URICu"T: 3v - tsa Applicant. My r*istah2.
,, .In any a7aat, I acn 3r. inta=1 to in'. reduce it a.
this tin?. I just ' cant to att Mr. ~L1:0:r a -. .*.ctr of gN3tionu I dtcist i*.*. Q,Dd OMGt tht cd27.*tt . 23 - y u. Mt t*L'.:': ':o ycu bapc :: to hr.':3 L nc:a ::9y" t () s- to 3:: . unm: c ac I do r.r n , at . _ c :cgy o.i :: :c t. I t l [-
w9
) l' 11,474 l i
- am12 1 varicus charts that I am q. cing te be referrina. to -- .
', , z s 2 (Document handad to Dr. Callihan)
('v/ . s . 3 [ - with the page nunther at the bottcm. t' s 4 BY MR. WRIGHT 1 5 0 !?ould you say, Mr. Kanter, haced upon your review 6 of this particular document, that ths population figures'were 7 raaacnably accurate?
,- 8 A (Witnese Kantor) .C believe it is a roaconable I
9 represantation of the population t.19.in five nila.a cf the to 2113:14 tite. 11 Q Could we lock pl:tase, te pago D. . hat p cvides you
- 12 wit a tha pack seaconal trnne? ent Mpule.tien det: 1or 1975.
13 Is that no*. correct? 14 A Yes, I believe the.t f.#.gure aerun-3s th t all 15 touria facilities are filled to capacity, and it is a daily 16 peak trancient pc?11ation figure. ai- CHFJPf'.F.H G000EOPE: haat figure ars you celking 15 about? MITNESE HA" TOR: I belic70 at is en : age 50, I 19 20 . l Figure 3.<!-1, 21 CHAIE4Jd! GOODH0PE: Yes. But 'ihat figtree art you 1 22 talking ahcut? .9:2t h
- ars? The ring nopuln":irn?
La
., '1I".'HES'? "E!?^n: The ring ,cr:ule.tien .2nd Sha-l y : mulative pepitiaticu, he:h. i i i t
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nal3 BY Ma. WRIGHT: O \ t v Q So if wo take tha ceralative population ::ut to five miles, according to tha 22T figurcs, the peak day tripper k population to be found in that fivo -nila ring is 14,332, is a that not correct? A (Witness Kanter) yg3, 337, Q Now, let's lock at seasonal re' idents. could we icok at pago 49 ci tna 2nt' roifert, Figcre w . t 3.2-3,
> tica these cro the cu =:r 'curdcn D , cr; thuy ncn,,
for the year 1990? A Tes, that's carr-tet.. Q And could you tall me tha date t>ct it is raasenabla to expect Pilgrim 2 unit, if it is licansad, to atart un at this sciat? Do ycu have any feel fcr that? A I can't say I really do have a dr.tn Int could project tira Otartup of t'io ple.ne.. We are using 13:35 ac car croject4'. acetraad d Its of 5' cperations.
. Q 2.at's your asciraed dr.to cf op 2ra::.f.cc.
Do you kncu '.f that date has cince bec:r..3 incperative, et; no longer ecour: N? A Mo, I do not hacw. G U Q Could wo lech a0 S.c : 2aric.cl pagulai.ica e/20 P.c 1 l l l i
.v- , _ , - -
w-,,-g -- ,- r-,. ,
n
.v.s e476 1
2 14 two milau in the year 1 390. 3 4 L) And that is 5259, is it nct? i A That's ccrrect. ( Fm. LEWALD: Can th?. record shcw that is seasonal cumulative population? MR. WRIGHT: 2'c3. Sea enal c'entlative populatica. BY MR. URIGHT:
) Q If you wars to m31ght ths.t nich y0ur .05 voighcing factors - de you hava a calculater?
A (Witnera Kanter) Y 33, I do, Q c uld jcn t::.11 rce hete :w:h *:ha . w:cid cc unfor. y:nr waighcing syct:n? A Wall, it would h3 5059 times .25, unich is r:nghlr (3 s.) 1200 or ro. 1314, to da mact. 0 All right. So even though ycu had S200 .7:cpla 1:iving within 1 two miles of tha reactor site itcalf, ir. ta:ns of ec= paria:
? Pilgrim with the othat sitsa ycu trould adC 1 14 to its total r population figura for tiithin chat two--r.tilo range?
A That's right. Zn ccmparing tha annnal averagt
. ' population at ?ilgrim with the annual aver:go population ac
' the ~ alternative sitos, we vculd vaight :.ha scanenal :esidents f
3 .. I f* w we e J"eM e h 40 e d O E.7) *
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C L a;ar.s= .
~
11,476
" 14 two miles in the year 1990. ~h (d 4 And that is 5259, is it not? i A That' = c0rrect.
MR. LEWALD: Can tho re:ord show that is seasonal cumulative population? MR. URIGHT: Yes. Seasenal cuculativa population. BY MR. WRIGHT: Q If you were to weight that wi h your .25 weighting factors -- do you have a calculat:r? A (;Iitness 11ntor) Yac, I do. Q Ceuld ycu toll ma how much 9.at vould ha under your weighting systrca? I Q v A Well, it would he 5259 timas .25, which is :ugnly 1 1200 or so. 1314, to be exact. , 1 Q All right. So evon though ycu had 5:200 peopla livir.g within two milas of tha reactor sitta itsolf, in tar s of ccuparing a Pilgri:n with the cther sitta ycu would add 1314 to its total population figura for within that t so-mile rango? A That's right. In ccaparing the arnual average
~ population at Pilgrim with tha annual avar:ga pcpulation a:
the alterne.tive sitoa, va veuld voight tho scarenal racidents
' - :: .25.
O Ict's nc *that happans t!un wi'h. thi: Scighting m n
/
v sycnen.
11,477 mm15 If you look on page 75, ycu vill find, will you
/
I
\_ ,
not, the total paak population for tha yor.r 19N. Now that . includes both the fu'.1-time rasidants, tha seasonal rasidents
, and the day trippers, does it not?
. A Yas, I believe it dosc.
O And ehet is the cu:mzlativa figarc :ar tho two-nilo range? In. SMITH: .':r. Chai=aan, I m godens; to cbjsnt. I think this lino of questioning is act.relavant to the tcstiaony presenth. Ua talkr.d chout -- Staff ad.uita cha s it doca r idCCCgh an Ennual CGaly3iO, it '7Giyh '.~.3 10,.CD C at.!C . Mr. Wright wenta us to do his entlyais as: ::.ng (m u) peaks. It is something wa haven't done. If he wint: to out on a witness to do thac and show tha compaci en, d.~.ne. In fact, I think this is what Prefssacr IIara dosa. 4 3ut it is simply cut. side tno acep.: cf the winnassmi? m testtaony. If he trants to aak him tehy aidn't ha usa peak, chny hav,e already ransvared it, but they can answer h ag.un.
. But this type of creas-4:canin.itica 4.3 just Oct reinant 'n the tastinony .
MR. VaIGET: I" I mcy rw pent.
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11,.i73 imn16 ralevant. (N.
'\d -
I would like to establish v.h c::?h this writness first
'tinat tha actual weighting system unat they ass?., which 12
; : the next step is my creas-e:caminstion weall auk him co ' ak-3 c
. - [ this twomile ri::q and weight it Ecr un co that wa could comparo 3 the actual figure that is there with the figtze that they come
!up with when they weight it.
^
thinP. it la extr*Miy relevaan. cs R G.N GCCOOPD: 1:n scan raitiply that 12401 by .25? 2'.P.. h" RIG 11^ : We will hav.2 to krse.k t.: Gr.vb IEcr.U.;u it involte3 1 nn:aber of diffcrent si T ir7 3
') It irric1ves the c:asonal rsaMnt, pw: Tan =nr.
~J
- E rssident and day trippers.
i MR. 3MIT3: Mr. Chairuan, I woula sea chia inutoad
.jofputtingontheirownwitnes2, they erv ryi.,.3 v.o build thai.:
cwn casa. Ycu can de that through cros 5, ialt stot outr,id.t the , dj g
' scope of tha testimony.
C*P.IMIM GOGUEOPE: Cn ecuel> ety v;m's occuau.t. MP.. SMITH: hs .
- S.. WRIGHT: This is a doc'2 ment .:.'iat han r.s2?.1o;;94
' for hc fir:t tim 2 'eccty by Mr. Factor. Es h4a 'arcught it 52id '.hMEO pCP!laticn IIit UZds W10 f a.r*J2rd ?.Z'f. # .it' O'".0 3'! 3 , 2003
- 192cCrarQ i In US U.i:Y1 htdOcc.
(3 1 x
-) : went te tea u ;ont. c e e.i m,e m;.mw ,.:nn l I
i 11,479 mal 7 Mr. Kanter and see how they are treated by the Staff. O MR. SMITH: We have alreaay said how we treated these populations. We have done that in this FES, in the
^
supplement, we have done it in the testimony. 9 CHAIRMAN GOODHO?E: What do you want him to do now? You want him to do what breakdown? I'm going to let him go and just see where he is going. I'll overrule the obje:: tion right now. BY MR. WRIGHT: O So tne total peak population for than particular ring, that two-mile ring frcm =erc '.o two niles as it is, in I 12,121, right? (Witnesc Kanter) Q - A 'les, cir. MR. LDTALD: For the year 1990. BY MR. WRIGHT: Q For the year 1990. p All right, ifyeu will just quickly icok, let's see hcw that breaks down. If you look on page 36,which provides you the year-round population for that ring, saa number is 4393. Is that not correct? A (Witness Kantor) 'les, sir.
)
Q And that one multiplied thnon eno. In other werda, t you 'aculd not weight that? A That is corrtet.
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, 11,481 mm19- We hava dono contothing very similar to what we
~
\
J are going through in Tabic 3 for 19 35, :rhi.:h .:houa the permanean ranidents, seasonal racidants. ::nd tira:t wo 1,olieve i to be raprauentative touriri data. O My question hcwever is, if you teordf. kindly weight that figure, 2469. 4 A I guess uhat I am saying, tbne 2160 sculd have te l
- be broken do m furder into variota mtbyrcapa. uc just enn:t sinply .velgne this 2469 by our .33 nirth: -~ . II ys.rcant ntaber hacacac Dhs hu2.k of thana chcrt cc.:a vici:cer ca wn here ara pacple that cosa to die Pilgr5n unc.:a "r:n . ana .narice.
The.:a ars acme pacpla in 21.2 figure M t also vicit 4 a 1ccal park. And I don't think it 13 .ag.:es antativa to ca-f s that the avorage parson sprend.a onc full dcj ac clu recricch cr I at the shora front. L Theraiore, I thich c is ligure litt I 4
' have indicated,:tould necd to be broken dcun furthee if p
.m. w.'.ro going to continue with a dai:2ilM .:aal:/ i: of rui; ccrt.
l 0 Well, lac's Icok at yc:u 2:thibic -26. New in thatparticular ena. just iceking say to
, Tablo 1, ycu inva a tourist - in col r. O yc4 have a c:uricc
, , figura c:f 468,000, do ycu not? A correct. Annual - C .t a.?. sun a v.has incluu.2c all tha:: ' acious tT?es tb icu jr.: diac.te.;cd, la tha:: 0.04 r! ga l'
. . j A .bmurl nshar el 10ttr.LW c,2 .;! ?,.M i 7..:e.'.tr \ population and the seasonal weighted population, if you would -
" add 4393 to 1315, please?
MR. SMITH: I object to why the witness has to perforra these calculations. i' MR. WRIGHT: I am trying to ditermina what the weighted population for that particular ring in. .+
-, CHAI.T.AH 00CDECP3: Overruled.
i WITNESS XMITOR: I get a fic.'ra c: 5700. TM i if :culd S.% compared to tne f:.gi:ra in Ticic 3 Y:.unin toro to two milss, of 3943. DY MR. WRIGHT: l- Q That we.s what I mu goia; to t .ku no:::. Lat's look i l' at Table 3. e il Bacod en thcua ERT figurte tcra ro havo just uced [
' from =ero to two :ailc3 ou a cenulativo weigh::.ng -- 5'103 cid 1
- 4. you my?
5,70S? A (Witnzca IUtntar) Correct. DR. CCLS: This is 1995 thengh, en Tcolo 3. WITNESS KMTOR: Thnt'e the point I Tuc cciref to make, sir, yes. BY MR. WRICES: Q A:xi 1: hun you fi::t d:4 thu Yi:C. if Sic c:r. lack plcacs at =cge 4-c --
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11, 104 mm22 Ma. WRIGHT: '7a ce now loc!cinJ a: page 4 .l.
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D7 ILt. WR.CCHT: ( Q ::aro to two .alles 1935 you .ny t.aa weigtesd population is 3214. Ia that r.ct co m et? A (Witnes; ~ Canter) Yes, sir. .'eni I'.u raf.1r ycc to - Tabla 1 ol th.e S taff Exhibit M, 51 ahav j ou Q & crc:.ikdcwa cf that nt.mber. QF Nst tho W in rat.: air.c dO . 1. net .er . J.nter , -'.0'.t vhs.n v. m 2 Lr c. s. i ec. arnd *c'c1:- L *:0a catch =1 n:.11 L:Co irm:'. narc to '..v. uilvi c.2 aoight .i p.:';ah2.ca -4: . :.t i an . 2.ta ERT figuras for 19X , .:'iva '/ta.es M ter, wiza:cd ic: ::: ?. met
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area show that thort is f.70s pacpic. Is tnt not corrxt?
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T 11,480 david 3 1 at tima of start up to two mileo. Ihat's not the caso, I n s 1 vant to havo Mr. Kantor look at 1990 for us to ces hc r nuch mora i V . 3 that is. And than thu board, arned vi:h chace fiJurcs will 4 ( have to make sema-docision au to which is more accurato. 5 Certainly it is proper cross e:tantination, those aro figures 6 that ha' has, introduced. 7 C.%uRMAN .GCCDECPE : I'In not 30 3':ra that it is. 8 Why don c you gen ycur own viercac to do chia calculatien, 8 9 and bring it en in? 10 ..;
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+ I G . C L1: T.JO!!: Mr C.al:m2n,--
11 ClihIIC1.".U OCCC2092: Then sh.:2i ett , L::te. > st .: 12 wrong With tha -- what ha 14a0 .tr.rca, it .j mda Omh* Itudy g 13- and prescuted their infor c.a': ion en the 'J a:i:: cf 1935. T.f ho u 14 sr.cwad us ocr figustes e.rs t.- ong--:: still dea' t .':ncs, unure wa 15 are goi:p with coli of this. 16 MP. WECHT: I'r1 itt.nptimj :o :: r., !!r. Zutcr's 17 tectinony to dc=cn tro.te what, prhys , i 'r 2 rc:3 c.ccurnto 18 rdeding of th: varieuc populction wi. i.: "h c '.".~.T i:a cita . I 19 C% AIR &M! GCCCH09E: Go far, di; t n:ut.mcuy han huse i .
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r , e] 11,489 dnvide I cnAIP2W: GOCCUor3: All right. p] x 2 3Y MR.11RIGHT: 3 Q Mr. Kanter, if you pick the weighted ERT figura of ( 4 tho 5708 for that .crea, what is the de:Isity of people per
$ s quare mile?
6l A A simple calculation vould show it's 453 per squara 7 mila. i
, s O' - T5ank you. i t
i g A For 1990 ba3ad cn ERT figure:3. ! l i 10 Qp Thank you, Mr. Kanter. j i f 11 Ma. E GHTt Mr. Chai..r.an, n:: %r.s cima, una nc:t i 12 area of crocs esaminatien invciv.c see.cthing r.hac touchas ';ory 13 closely on the data that was just given te no . On the Q U 14 document that was just given to tcday 'cy ifr. 22ith. .bd I'd 15 li!ca a chance to Icek ar. !t this evc .ing. l
;g CHAIR W GOODHOP3 hOnld yen lika a chanca fio review '
17 that cefere you go any furthtr? 18 MR. MCW: Yes. I t jg (BOARD CCNFERRING) 20 CHAIRMaM CCCDHCP3: Deus anyhc:8.y havrs any objection?
. 21 1 c'11 s.djourn until 9 :00 in the zczning. Did you se7 i:cn.sthing 22 :L:. Sut.t.%
1
. ~ i g TC. S C.T !: Tha cauff .ics nono. ';ou arn act geing '
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/^ ' . 2 CHA!rMAN GCCDEOPE: All right,- if you're not going i a
3 to put it in the -- is yo>.r document. : 4 MR. LrfAI.D : It'a the docnosnt we supplied to ; i e
?. staff, a 1975 document. I 1
6 CHAIPRAN GCOOHOP :: Yes. 7 MR. KIIST011: The question :: taa going to a:sk l
^
8 befera tne atipulation on e:thibit GG.Say tha.t the 2RT 9 docnent for it's source f: en table 3 ar. the bottcwi it, a j i 10 , f c ut. .c'g . 11 CHAIRM\N GOC 0 HOPES U.ght. I I 12 i !D., iUaEETOtn Said PAa dcenne it is Lrrelrurx. I 13 CAI?J.4U GCODHC?E: To wiac?
,o e
14 MR. KL2ETON: To whnt we're dJ.scussin hen. l 15 CHAMM GOOOHOPE: You can offar it when we get e ; 16 accand to it. All right, we'll adjourn .'ncil 9:00 in c'.e ,
,7 morning 18
!. Trac 7cn, at 4 :50 p.m., th; acaring van ad.tovs:.sd 19 -
to sconvene at 9 : 00 a .m . , AU.yuct '18, 19 70. ) , o 1. I i
+
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