ML20083C866
| ML20083C866 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Vogtle  |
| Issue date: | 04/17/1995 |
| From: | AFFILIATION NOT ASSIGNED |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#295-16685 OLA-3-A-001, OLA-3-A-1, NUDOCS 9505220259 | |
| Download: ML20083C866 (84) | |
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-S INDEX OF EXHIBITS E
MAY 031995 E
IN THE NATTER OF DOCKETWG&-
SERVICE BPM 4 i
VOGTLE ELECTRIC GENERATING PLANT 4
UNITS 1 & 2 DOCKET NOS 8/
p 50-424-OLA-3 50-425-OLA-3 GPC EXHIBITS
. EXHIBIT NO.
DESCRIPTION NO. OF PAGES DATE GPC-1 TAPE 57 EXCERPT 80 04-17-95 GPC-2 TAPE 58 EXCERPT 45 04-17-95 GPC-3 QUALIFICATIONS 1
04-17-95 GPC-4 CONFIRMATION OF ACTION 4
04-17-95 GPC-5 STATUS OF AIT 2
04-17-95 GPC-6 AL/ KEN FYI 1
04-17-95 GPC-7 "IMPORTANT" MEMO 1
04-17-95 GPC-8 STARTS CHART 6
04-17-95 GPC-9 LUBE TEMP SWITCH 1
04-17-95 GPC-10 RESPONSE TO FOIA REQUEST 34 04-17-95 GPC-11 HANDWRITTEN NOTE 1
04-17-95 GPC-12 LETTER FROM REYES 20 04-17-95 GPC-13 4-9-90 CONF. OF ACTION 4
04-17-95 GPC-14 4-19-90 REPORT 9
04-17-95 GPC-15 6-29-90 MEMO 11 04-17-95 GPC-16 6-29-90 EVENT REPORT 10 04-17-95 GPC-17 7-20-90 EBNETER LETTER 4
04-17-95 GPC-18 8-30-90 HAIRSTON LETTER 5
04-17-95 GPC-18A BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-18-95 9505220259 950417 PDR ADOCK 05000424 T
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INDEX OF EXHIBITS pq WORK ORDER - 192 IN THE NATTER OF VOGTLE ELECTRIC GENERATING PLANT UNITS 1 & 2 DOCKET NOS:
50-424-OLA-3 50-425-OLA-3 GPC EXHIBITS o
EXHIBIT NO.
DESCRIPTION NO. OF PAGES DATE GPC-19 QUALIFICATIONS HAIRSTON 1
04-17-95 GPC-19A HAIRSTON MEMO 5-11-94 7
04-20-95 GPC-20 QUALIFICATIONS BUCKHOLD 1
04-19-95 GPC-21 DIESEL TESTING 2
04-19-95 GPC-24 QUALIF. STRINGFELLOW 1
04-21-95 GPC-25 REPORT DRAFT 12 04-21-95 GPC-26 TAPE 53 EXCERPT 4
04-21-95 GPC-40 TAPE 157 EXCERPT 19 04-20-95 GPC-46 QUALIF. FREDERICK 1
04-21-95 GPC-47 MEETING MINUTES 2
04-21-95 1
1
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INDEX OF EXHIBITS Y
WORK ORDER - 192 IN TNE NATTER OF VOGTLE ELECTRIO GENERATING PLANT UNIT 8 1 & 2 DOCKET NOS:
50-424-OLA-3 50-425-OLA-3 INTERVENOR EXHIBITS Intervenor providedroporter'with QMLy TWO of each exhibit.
EXHIBIT NO.
DESCRIPTION NO. OF PAGES DATE INT. 13 RESPONSE LETTER 28 04-19-95 INT. 18 HANDWRITTEN NOTE 1
04-20-95 INT. 19 TAPE 25 1
04-19-95 INT. 22B BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-21-95 INT. 24 4-9-90 LETTER 4
04-17-95 04-19-95 INT. 25 TAPE 40 1
04-19-95 INT. 43 DIESEL TESTING 17 04-21-95 INT. 43A TRANSCRIPT EXCERPT 3
04-17-95 INT. 47 BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-17-95 INT. 57 RESPONSE TO INTERR.
24 04-19-95 i
INT. 62 EVENT REPORT 11 04-17-95 INT. 64 REVISED REPORT 5
04-20-95 INT. 65 BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-18-95 INT. 65A BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-18-95 INT. 67 CLARIFICATION LETTER 5
04-19-95 INT. 76A TAPE NO. 246 1
04-19-95 INT. 77 BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-17-95 INT. 81 OUTAGE TURNOVER LOG 42 04-19-95 i
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, $11 INDEX OF EXHIBITS WORK ORDER'- 192 IN THE NATTER OF:
.VOGTLE ELECTRIC GENERATING PLANT UNITS 1 & 2 DOCKET NOS:
50-424-OLA-3 50-425-OLA-3 INTERVENOR EXHIBITS Intervenor providedreporter with ONLY TWO of each exhibit.
EXHIBIT NOz DESCRIPTION NO. OF PAGES DATE INT. 89 ROOT CAUSE - DRAFT 4
04-19-95 INT. 90 TAPE NO. 27 1
04-19-95 INT. 95 INTEROFFICE CORRESPOND.
43 04-19-95 INT. 102 TELEPHONE BILLING RPRT 31 04-18-95 INT. 104 06-20-90, BRIEFING 2
04-20-95 INT. 105 REPLY TO NOTICE-07-31-94 52 04-18-95 INT. 110A TAPE NO. 34 1
04-19-95 INT. 123 LOG 72 04-18-95 INT. 124 BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-21-95 INT. 125 BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-18-95 INT. 126 BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-18-95 l
l
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N.
WORK ORDER---192 IN THE NATTER OF VOGTLE ELECTRIC GENERATING PLANT
)
UNITS 1&2 DOCKET NOS 50-424-OLA-3 50-425-OLA-3 STAFF EXHIBITS l
EXHIBIT'NO.
DESCRIPTION NO. OF PAGES DATE STAFF-20 BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-18-95 INTERVIEW SUPP.
BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-20-95 SUPPLEMENTS (13)
BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-20-95 I
STAFF-21 BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-21-95 STAFF-22 BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-21-95 STAFF-9 BOUND IN TRANSCRIPT 04-21-95 l
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- BEGIN TAPE NO. 57, SIDE A**
USilRC 4-19-90 2
(Marginalia:
Third Floor, Service Building,J. 9
% MAY -3 P Z 3
Engineering Offices.]
\\
4 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
I r
iC 5
Stokes:
(Inaudible)theystartedthediesel$1Mtwiceon l
6 that diesel where [ inaudible).
7 VOICE:
Yeah.
8 Stokes:
We still had gas in the machine.
9 Mosbaugh:
We had gas in the machine.
l l
10 Blount:
I gave them a little lecture on cutting the damned 11 thing off.
Don't ever cut it off.
12 Mosbaugh:
With hydrogen in the machine, yeah.
13 Blount:
They just got lucky.
If it had been up like say 14 that flange had held like eight or nine more 15 pounds... and they cut it off, it would have t
16 blown across the seal, and taken all the oil with 17 it.
We did that on Unit 2 with air.
It makes a j
18 big mess.
But when you're up and running at a low 19 level like that, your lube oil supply will seal it 20 to a certain degree.
We never like to trust that.
21 That's a secondary option.
22 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
23 Blount:
That switch just probably needs a little 24 adjustment.
25 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
So they were, what, not going to proceed 26 with torsional until they --
27 Kavi:
No.
g=..
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E-
.i 1
Mosbaugh:
They were.
2 VOICE:
They were.
3 Blount:
. Montgomery just called and said they were probably I
4 going to fire up in the next. hour.
5-
.Kavi:
Right.
They were waiting for the GE people to 6
come back.
7 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
They were going to run it up to speed and 8
then they were going to call the GE people back 9
in.
10 Kavi:
(Inaudible.)
11 Mosbaugh:
They were going, reenter the torsional test.
That 12 was the plan.
l 13 Kavi:
Right.
They were going to take it up to 1800 RPM 14 put excitation on (inaudible), that negative 15 sequence occurrence (inaudible).
16 Mosbaugh:
I thought they were going to play around at about 17 100 RPM initially.
18 Blount:
Well, we already played around --
19 Kavi:
That test is already done.
20 Mosbaugh:
Oh,.the 100 RPM stuff is done?
21 Kavi:
Yeah.
The 100 to 1800, they already checked out 22 everything.
23 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
I didn't know if they were going to do that 24 or not.
25 Blount:
There's slight vibration in No. 6 and No. 7 26 bearings that's running about six mils.
They 27 don't think it's a problem.
They think when they i
N:p, j i
3 4
1.
. finish loading the machine that those will settle i
21
'out, and.that's not a. big deal.
Montgomery just p
31 called and said that they were just sitting around
-4 waiting now to get everybody in so they could go 5
back up, take it up to 18, load-it, I mean --
6' VOICE:.
Excitation (inaudible).-
7' Mosbaugh:
Bring it down, start stepping up the (inaudible)..
8
_ VOICE:
Okay.
9 Blount:
Everything's running good so far.
'10 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
11 Blount:
Except for our seal oil pump.
And that~was just 12 the pressure switch.
13 Mosbaugh:
Good.
i 14 Blount:
I mean, there's a certain amount of vibration that 15 qnes into when you start (inaudible).
16 Mosbaugh:
Oh, yeah.
i 1
17 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
1 18
.Blount:
Okay.
But I did check that pressure this morning.
19 It was running good and the DP across the seals 20 was running at eight pounds like it's supposed.to.
21 Mosbaugh:
Gover's here and Junior's gone'--
22 Blount:
Yeah.
[ Bill) Gover's been in the control room all 23 morning.
He's babysitting.
-1 24 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
25 Burwinkle:
Is that the special assignment that we picked up?
26 Mosbaugh:
What?
3 1
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1 Burwinkle:
To babysit this. control room?
2 Mosbaugh:
No.
Me's the test leader for --jhe and' Junior are
'3 doing'the-torsional test on twelves. -And, yes,
'4' that's a special assignment.
5-Burwinkle:
I mean, you all said he wasn't allowed to leave
~
6 the control room or something.
7 Blount:
Well --
8' Mosbaugh:
I didn't know about that.
9 Blount:
They're all hot to trot.
So, you know, if you can 10 make them happy and keep them all satisfied, 11 (inaudible).
12 Burwinkle:
Maybe it was just ops [ inaudible).
13 Blount:
I'd sit on my head in there if it would make them 14 happy.
15 Mosbaugh:
Hold their hands.
t i
16 i
[ walking sounds; door opening / closing sounds) 17 Mosbaugh:
Yes.
I 18 VOICE:
[ Inaudible.)
19 Mosbaugh:
No. No. That's not right.
20 Minyard:
That's not right.
21 Mosbaugh:
Can't be right.
can't be right.
Just 22 (inaudible).
23 Minyard:
Okay.
To do any better than --
24 Mosbaugh:
There's something fairly gross wrong.
25 Minyard:
No.
Let me explain.
If you use exactly the way 26 Aufdenkampe said to... you're either on line, off 1
4 l
j
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mn 3-1 1
line, or sloping down.
You'll come out with 86 2
percent which is not our goal.. ~Our goal is 79.
3 So we tried to take them off and come up with it.
4 Now, if you want to, we can take them off'at 100 5
percent.
6 Mosbaugh:
Make a copy of that for me.
Let me -- I'll take 7'
care of that.
8 (Pause.)
(Break in taping.)
9 VOICE:
(Inaudible) option, other than, to, you know, 10 shoot ourselves in the foot.
11 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
12 Holmes:
Now, if it turns out something that we have to tag 13 out the RWST, then we can, you know, on a special 14 case, make sure we patch up the path and put that 15 flow path.
I figure that keeps it simpler if we 16 come up with a special case that we can just put 17 together and figure out a way around it, because 18 there are some options that I didn't want to put 19 down there that we can exercise.
20 (Simultaneous inaudible conversation.)
21 VOICE:
....RWST [ Inaudible)
If we have work in that 22 area, then (inaudible).
23 VOICE:
Yeah.
The little page I wrote up on the front, 24 there's a typo on there.
(Inaudible.)
It's 25 marked right on the print.
26 VOICE:
We can mark it right on the print.
5
b 4
'd l'
VOICE:
But I don't know why I said heat exchangers.
2
[ Simultaneous conversation.]
3 VOICE:
I heard there was a little. bat there, huh?
The 4
painters was up there working, and he come 5
tumbling out of the duct work.
6 VOICE:
Yeah.
7 VOICE:
I guess he got pretty high.
8 VOICE:
That must have been the trouble in there, right?
9 Them unauthorized starts?
10 VOICE:
Well, we also figured out that that may be why 11 your count was low (inaudible).
12 VOICE:
Yeah.
13 VOICE:
Accountability.
14 VOICE:
Yeah.
15 VOICE:
[ Inaudible) extra one in the plant that wasn't 16 badged in is because he doesn't have his badge.
17 VOICE:
Yeah.
18 VOICE:
[ Inaudible) they'll frisk (inaudible).
19 VOICE:
You're going to have to take him through HP before 20 you let him out, I would think.
21 VOICE:
I believe [ inaudible).
22 Mosbaugh:
He's already out.
23 VOICE:
He's not out of the plant.
24 VOICE:
I think there was a snake we found and they wanted 25 to frisk it or whatever before they turned it 26 loose.
6
b.
' i 1
t 1,
VOICE:
I don't know whether we.found him.in one of the
'2
'outside areas or whether it (inaudible).
3; Mosbaugh:
With the snake, we send him;down (inaudible) power
'4 area.
4 5
Mosbaugh:
Down on the bottom where it's potentially 6
contaminated.
7' VOICE:
in fact, though, they still need to check with HP.
8 VOICE:
The bat?
9 VOICE:
The bat.
10 VOICE:
Yeah.
He's a cute little thing.
'll VOICE:
On the torsional, do you what's going on.
12 VOICE:
I don't know where they are at.
I know they made 13 me roll up to 1800 and everything was fine and 14 they were coasting down and getting the 15 (inaudible) point.
I think we had a problem with 16 the seal oil pump.
17 VOICE:
Yeah.
They did some adjustments (inaudible).
q 18 VOICE:
You don't want them.
19 VOICE:
No.
20 VOICE:
And took care of a couple other little problems 21 while they were up that they would have found.
. 22 VOICE:'
Hey, Allen.
i 23 Mosbaugh:
I have heard a vicious rumor..
4
- 24 Hallman:
Which is?
25 Mosbaugh:
Are you going to license school, or anything like 4
26 that?
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. t-1 Hallman:
Yeah.
2.
Mosbaugh:
Oh, you are.
Oh, okay..
3 Hallman:
Are you?
4 Mosbaugh:
I don't know.
l 5
(Laughter.)
6 Mosbaugh:
I mean, you're lucky, at least you know.
Oh, you
-- 7 have a letter.-
8 Hallman:
No.
That's'the thing (inaudible).
9 VOICE:
Oh.
10 Hallman:
That was from my counterpart at Hatch.
'11 Mosbaugh:
Oh, Hatch, Don Hallman.
12 Hallman:
Addressed to Hatch.
13 Mosbaugh:
Hatch.
14 Hallman:
Yeah.
15 Mosbaugh:
Oh, maybe you're going to Hatch.
16 Hallman:
That's right. I'll go call him back, and say, what 17 do you know that I don't know.
18 Mosbaugh:
But this is more than a vicious rumor.
4 19 Hallman:
I very much hope to be accepted to license school.
20 Mosbaugh:
You hope to?
21 Hallman:
Yes.
22 Mosbaugh:
Oh.
Did somebody ask you or --
23 Hallman:
I have asked various people, and I think skip's 24 approved it, and I think George's approved it.
I 25 don't know how much corporate gets involved in 26 these things.
8
(
o.
1 Mosbaugh:
I had -- well, I guess -- yeah.
We just published 2
the list, and I --
3 Hallman:
My name wasn't on it.
4 Mosbaugh:
Your name wouldn't be on that because that was the 5
list of general solicitations, not any --
6 Hallman:
Oh, okay.
7 Mosbaugh:
-- Not manager in training type slots.
Yeah.
8 okay.
I had heard that.
9 Hallman:
Yeah, I want to do that.
10 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
I want to do that, too.
I've done it 11 before.
Okay.
12 (Pause.)
(Walking sounds; whistling.)
13 Mosbaugh:
So how is the torsional test coming?
14 Greene:
Well, the only problem is we are at the rated 15 speed ar.d we're waiting for the experts to get in.
16 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
)
17 Greene:
We're running all of our surveillances while we're 18 waiting.
No. 7 bearing --
19 Mosbaugh:
I heard we had some kind of vibration.
20 Greene:
No. 7 (inaudible).
21 Mosbaugh:
Not.
Real high.
They'll probably wear in.
22 They'll probably wear in.
23 Greene:
Not only that, you'd want to get up (inaudible).
24 Mosbaugh:
Well, when we have it loaded.
25 Greene:
There's no big rush on that.
That might actually 26 be a problem with that.
(Inaudible) and that's 9
B L
1L ult.
Waiting on them to get there and in the 2
seantine'we're doing all the surveillances. ~ Right 13 now, we're doing it at 1800.
U 4:
Mosbaugh:
(While eating food.) I heard there was a problem-a 5
couple days ago with the seal oil pump being 6
turned off.
7-Greene:
Yeah.
8 Mosbaugh:
Could you tell me about that?
9 Greene:
Yeah.
Let me.see if I can tell you what happened.
10 What they think happened is they turned it off 11 (inaudible).
It was part of isolating for this 12 hydrogen.
13 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
14 Greene:
So they. turned off the seal oil pump.
15 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
16 Greene:
And for some reason in our procedure the 17 regulating valves between the lube oil system and 18 the seal oil system is shut, and I think the 19 procedure is -- I mean, they did what's in the 20 procedure, and they put the -- they went into 21 (inaudible) or (inaudible) and they rolled off the 22 jack without any seal oil on them.
23 Mosbaugh:
I heard we almost pulled oil across the seals, or 24 perhaps.
25 Greene:
Those are babbit seals and you don't know what 26 you've got until you look.
They should know by 5
10
)
t p.
1 now (inaudible) problem.
I haven't heard anybody
'2 say they tried to look at (inaudible).
3 Mosbaugh:
Uh-huh.
4 Greene:
But if there is a problem, (inaudible).
5 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
6 VOICE:'
Is the PRB meeting still going on?
7 VOICE:
Uh --
8 VOICE:
I heard it's 2 to 3.
9 Mosbaugh:
Yeah, I think it probably is.
In fact, I just got 10 done talking on the budget, and talking to 11 Birmingham, and getting the status, and it'll now 12 go to the PRB.
13 VOICE:
I'm trying to find a room to have [ inaudible) 14 meeting.
Can I have it in here?
15 Greene:
Have what kind of meeting?
16 VOICE:
A critique team meeting.
17 Greene:
As far as I know, there are no scheduled meetings 18 in here.
Let's check with Melvin.
19 (Pause.) (Walking sounds; door closing sounds; 20 muffled background conversations.)
21 (Inaudible conversation.)
22 (Marginalia PRB enter.)
23 VOICE:
(Inaudible) couple days after [ inaudible).
24 VOICE:
But now it has been.
And I don't know that the 25 word has been put out that the backup ENN is now 26 equivalent to the regular ENN.
11
t
.o :
'1' Kitchens:
.The safest thing to do would be to strike the last 2
sentence.
I'll maintain I.can show you' documents p
3 that (inaudible).
4.
VOICE:
Yeah.
5 VOICE:
(Inaudible) and all that.
6 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
7 Mosbaugh:
Well, I had seen that before I came in here and' 8
when I read that, I read something about -- more 9
into it, like relative to the power supplies.
And 10 I think really only yesterday and the day before 11 did we discover the true source for the power 12 supplies and so forth.
Uh...
13 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
14 VOICE:
They're little signs we added.
15 (Simultaneous discussion.)
(
16 Kitchens:
A little plastic sign that says (inaudible).
17 VOICE:
(Inaudible), all the ENNs, (inaudible),
i 18 everythf.ng.
19 Mosbaugh:
How come there were people researching this all in 20 the last two days?
21 VOICE:
Who was doing it?
22 Mosbaugh:
Electrical engineering.
23 VOICE:
I don't know.
They could be...
24 Mosbaugh:
Emergency -- it all stemmed out of that thing for 25 the governor.
26 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
Because that's been a week or two.
12
- e.
10 1
Mosbaugh:
Where are they powered from?
2 Swartzwelder:
I don't know.
3 VOICE:
(Inaudible.]
4 VOICE:
(Inaudible.]
5 Kitchens:
It's just a little plastic sign like this 6
(inaudible).
7 Aufdenkampe:
What did George's memo say on communication 8
(inaudible) I mean, it was just [inaud'ible]
9 emergency directives, basically.
10 VOICE:
Communicators.
11 VOICE:
Communicators 12 Kitchens:
Communicators and emergency directives.
It was i
13 really [ inaudible).
It did not say what power 1
14 supply it comes from.
15 Mosbaugh:
That's the memo we're referencing?
16 Kitchens:
That was [ inaudible).
17 Aufdenkampe:
I think that's what Hairston was after, is that ha 18 wants some verbiage that we've discussed with our 19 people concerning how to communicate next time.
20 Kitchens:
I think it would be safer just to say that 21 (inaudible) -- I think it's safer to say emergency 22 directors and communicators have been instructed 23 concerning emergency communication systems and 24 their use, and not say anything about the power 25 supply.
That's just a general statement.
26 Mosbaugh:
I think we need to be more general.
i l
13
r 1
Kitchens:
I don't remember anything, any instructions given 2
out to anyone about power supplies.
3 Aufdenkampe:
Instructions have been given to emergency 4
directors and communicators concerning 5
(inaudible).
6 Kitchens:
(Inaudible) communicators (inaudible).
. had to 7
approve it (inaudible) how to handle it at this 8
point now that we have modified the back-up unit.
9 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
10 Kitchens:
I'm not sure that we've gone out and trained 11 everybody. (Inaudible) the communicators and the 12 emergency directors'.
13 Aufdenkampe:
Well, you know, I guess the questions would be --
14 we're not trying to mislead anybody with this 15 statement, and we have to have justification for 16 why this statement is correct.
(Inaudible.)
17 VOICE:
What about this front page?
18 Aufdenkampe:
It's okay, as far as I know.
(Inaudible.)
19 VOICE:
I just don't see the (inaudible).
20 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
21 Aufdenkampe:
It doesn't have to be in there [ inaudible.)
22 Kitchens:
I understand -- we -- our comment was change it 23 from 16 pages to eight pages, and take out all 24 that emergency planning stuff that's not required.
25 (Inaudible.)
26 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
14 i
,s
- 1.
Mosbaugh:
Did you correct the diesel starts.
I had given 2
John a comment on the diesel starts.
c3~
Aufdenkampe:
We have, there is a comment'in the PRB minutes.to.
4 either verify the sentence,. reword the sentence, 5
or delete the sentence.
That's what we're 6
actually doing.
7-
[6ound of Recorder being turned off and on again.]
8 Kitchens:
Now, if we can verify the, the sentence, I think 9
it would be more appropriate to say since March 10 the 20th that there's been, there were 18 11 consecutive starts of the DG.
John is going to go 12 and either verify it or take these numbers out, 13 and take out the wording that says there are no 14 problems or failures -- basically says that there 15 are no failures and no problems.
(Inaudible.)
16 Frederick:
I think what caught his attention on the number of 17 starts was when they tallied them up in front of 18 the NRC, there were a different number.
One came 19 out 20, and (Inaudible).
20 Kitchens:
Yeah, but we've started them a dozen times 21 (inaudible).
22 (Marginalia:
(Milt Bunt) chaffee team had 23 questioned the start data in COA and couldn't 24 figure how we counted starts.)
25 Frederick:
I know.
And I think that's his real question on 26 the number.
15
q 1
o i
~
-j 1-VOICE:
I believe --
~
i 2"
(Inaudible conversation.)
l 3'
Kitchens:
In 20 minutes, we could verify the number, whether 4-it's 20 or not.
Go through the. log and look it 5
up.-
But John picked that as an' action item..He's 6
going to verify if that's wrong or not.
If it's 7
wrong, we'll take it out.
Or if its right 1
8 (inaudible).
The other part was maybe to simplify 9,
the' sentence not.to make it sound so all i
10 encompassing.
George pointed out there was a 11 failure of one of the, of the B diesels right 12 after the maintenance work on it.
13 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
That was my comment.
l 14 Kitchens:
I don't think anybody.would hold that failure 15 against us since it's the diesel that's just been i
16 disassembled.
It wasn't operable.
So we don't 17 want to make a statement with no failures and no 18 problems.
19 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
I don't think you can make that statement.
j 20 Kitchens:
We'll say "since March 20th, the diesels have been 21 started more than 20 times each, successfully,"
{
22 some words like'that that -- whatever number it
)
23 comes out to be (inaudible).
Make sure its not a 9
24 false statement.
Do you have any other comments, 25 Allen?
26 Mosbaugh:
I just got a chance to look through it briefly, 16 I
- a. :
)
- s-I
+
1 and that's all I saw.
I 21 Kitchens:.
Okay.
(Inaudible)
Mr. Hairston's comments.and' i
,3 the few comments that we've had on this' initial 4
comment.
5
. Kitchens:
Lets take a vote 6
VOICE:
Do you want to vote Allen, or abstain?
17 Mosbaugh:
Uh.
I just came in.
I probably should abstain.
8 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
9 VOICE:
We're going to defer LER 2-90 (inaudible) PRB
.h 10 Monday morning.
i 11 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
l
~
12 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
\\
13 (Pause.)
14 VOICE:
Actually, everybody thought I was going to comment 15 on that q
16 VOICE:
I (inaudible).
17 VOICE:
! don't care.
I don't what (inaudible)."
I don't 18 know what MTs is. (Inaudible), but I don't know 19 what it is.
1 20 VOICE:
Management technical support.
21 (Inaudible conversation.)
.l 22 VOICE:
Then why go in and put engineering everywhere.
23 (Inaudible conversation.)
l 24 VOICE:
Anybody have any more comments?
25 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
I never asked for any of these 26 (inaudible).
{
17 i
l
,.; : s l
1 (Inaudible conversation.)
2 Kitchens:
Okay.
Let's all vote 0409.
(Inaudible.)
All in 3
favor, raise your. hands.
You got it.
4 (Inaudible conversation.)
5 VOICE:
As I recall, (inaudible).
6 VOICE:
Minority opinion by far.
7 VOICE:
254.
8 VOICE:
My comment was we added this thing in here about 9
the (inaudible) was set up to [ inaudible).
- Okay, 10 but you're responsible for all the work that's on 11 the shift.
Really, the work foreman or supervisor 12 (inaudible) set up some work on (inaudible).
13 We're talking about just setting up a certain i
14 housekeeping thing (inaudible).
15 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
16 VOICE:
Yeah.
17 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
18 Handfinger:
(Inaudible) a real problem.
We have 254 and 19 20-14-17.
We should not have two procedures; we 20 should have a procedure for control.
The 20-427 21 that we talked about this morning?
Maintenance 22 had nothing to do with setting up the zone 23 cleanliness.
Maintenance had nothing to do with 24 it.
Wasn't even there.
25 Kitchens:
That's fine.
The people that are responsible for 26 doing that (inaudible).
18
s.
4 1
Hand!inger:
That's what I'm saying.
That ought to be --
2 Kitchens:
It depends on what-you work on, Suppose you're 3
going to go work on the --
4 VOICE:
You're right.
It should be a plant --
5 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
6 Handfinger:
Should be a plant administrative procedure that we 7
all follow, and it should be -- the person that's 8
responsible for performing the work should be the 9
person that sets up the [ inaudible).
10 Kitchens:
But what if (inaudible] administentive procedure?
11 Handfinger:
Yeah.
But I'm saying we need to get rid of this 12 one --
13 Kitchens:
That's your's, isn't it?
14 Handfinger:
-- and incorporate it in -- no.
I'm saying we 15 need to get rid of 20 -- 20-427C is what do it by, 16 what you do 254B by.
You ought to have a 17 procedure on how we're going to go do this, 18 incorporate 20-427C into 254C.
So it's just what 19 you just said -- have the person responsible for 20 performing the work implement the control.
21 Kitchens:
Okay.
You agree with my comment.
But you have an 22 additional comment that we need to find a 23 (inaudible) procedure that gives them guidance on 24 how to do that.
25 Handfinger:
Right.
26 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
19
R Sl F
I n
i i.
.1 VOICE : '20-427 (b) is --
I 2
Kitchens:
Wo.took it out this one and put it in
)
3 (inaudible) a long time ago?
'4 (Marginalia: cleanliness control procedure 4
\\
5 discussion.)
6 VOICE:
Yeah.
I7
' VOICE:
'(Inaudible.)
8 Kitchens:
Yeah, but there are other work groups that need to 9
do this.
He had a good example for (inaudible) l 10 this, or --
11 Mosbaugh:
Do we do that not under a work order?
12-VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
13 Mosbaugh:
We don't do that under a work order.
14 Kitchens:
We do his part under a work order.
15 Mosbaugh:
Yeah, I know, but other --
16 Kitchens:
But not all the work that we would want to do.
17 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
18 VOICE:
(Inaudible) establishment of (inaudible).
19 VOICE:
For a refueling job.
20 Mosbaugh:
I'm just thinking, you know --
21 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
22 Mosbaugh:
If you were going to have requirements. We'd do.it i
-23 per a work order.
-a 24 Handfinger:
If we're going to do tank work, we have a specific 25 cleanliness requirement when we're going into a 26; tank.
l 20
}
- 1~
VOICE:
Or generator.
i 2
Handfinger:-
Yeah, something like that.
We would have a
'3 specific order.
For typical work, we don't have 4
'the' criterion.
5 Kitchens:
You've got very little left in there.
It~does 6
have materials accountability.
I think I
'7 understand what you're saying.
I believe that it 8
used to be in this procedure?
9-VOICE:
We took it out.
10 Kitchens:
We took it out of Admin procedures and put the 11 details in there.
12-Mosbaugh:
You know, there are two ways you can handle that.
13 You could pull it back out and put it in the Admin 14 procedure or you could require work orders when
]
15 you have cleanliness control.
16 Lackey:
It would be much easier if we had one procedure 17 that laid it all out.
18 Kitchens:
There's no reason that Operations or Chemistry 19 couldn't go to Procedure 20 and then 427(c) and 20 find out what (inaudible).
21 VOICE:
(Inaudible,]
22 Kitchens:
I think that 90 percent of the time we do it, it's
- 23 going to be by work orders, and Harvey's going to 24 do it, maybe more, because other times that we do 25 it, they put it in this procedure that the person
.l
- 26 responsible has to do it.
This one Harvey, it 21 J
' 4,
.[
1 does give you -- it does reference that 20,000 in u
'2.
427(c).
So as long as we put it in here for now,
-3 everybody else is. going to have to do whatever you 4
require.
- 5.
'Handfinger:
That's just fine.
6 VOICE:
If you want to take some of the. steps out of that 7
procedure and put it in here, that would be fine.
8 Handfinger:
The problem I have is I'm going to try to answer a 9
QA AFR that has nothing to do with the work 10 activity, and I'm going to make some commitments, 11 and I'm not the one that's implementing the order.
12 Kitchens:
Okay.
For that particular one, what we need you.
13 to do and I'm going to ask-him to do is we're 14 going to get our buddies from CSO or somebody in 15 here, and we're going to establish the controls 16 for the refueling outage, the refueling floor, and l
- 17 the fuel handling building.
Whether they use that
]
18 procedure or this procedure, I don't care'what 19 they do.
I think the cause of that we're getting q
20
.to, we didn't have that clearly identified as to 21 who had to do that thing, and so when it came up 22 and they started having problems, the people that 23 tried to take care of it, didn't take care of it.
24 I don't think we just ignored it, but we didn't do 25 sa very good job.
26 Handfinger*
I think we --
)
22
m...
~
uA' 3-7
{.
[1 Kitchens::
This time, we'll set up some person to' control.
l 2~
access to and' accountability for' materials, people' l
v l
3' and cleanliness for the containment and for the j
~
'4 retueling; areas.
But most of the time, other than L
j?
5 refueling example, and I'm sure there are going to 6
be a few other times,.most of the time when'we do l
'7-this, I think,it's going to be you guys i
l-8 (inaudible).
1:
9 Handfinger:
Ninety percent.
10 Kitchens:
I think all they're reai2y trying to do in this 11 procedure is make it be responsive.
(Inaudible.)
l 12 Tynan:
That still doesn't change --
13.
VOICE:
We might have (inaudible).
l 14 Tynan:
'We're still going to keep'(inaudible), so that's I
15 fine. (Inaudible) person responsible for the work
'16 activity.
[ Inaudible.)
17' Kitchens:
I understand that.
I agree with the changes.
18 (Inaudible) accountability in material control, j
19 you don't necessarily have to (inaudible).
20 Tynan:
I agree, but (inaudible) 21 (Inaudible conversation.)
22 Tynan:
So what you're looking for right now is change
~23-this superintendent to the individual responsible 24-for the work activity.
25 Kitchens:
Right.
or I would say the foreman or supervisor 26 responsible for the work activity is responsible 23
1 for ensuring controls are.
I think we need to 2
definitely take those out and put them in here.
3 And there's already a section to do that.
We 4
could probably do it if we want to.
And a couple 5
of years from now, we'll take it out again.
6 (Inaudible conversation.)
7 Kitchens:
Any other comments on this?
All in favor, raise 8
your hand.
9 VOICE:
Deficiency Card 1-90-195.
10 Swartzwelder:
Alright.
The only comment I had was I couldn't 11 remember what our position was on Wednesday --
12 things like improper fuses in (inaudible) panel 13 will require detailed (inaudible) review to 14 discover potential effects.
Did we table those, 15 or will we take them now, we'll wait until they 16 come back?
17 Aufdenkampe:
In general, (inaudible) believe it's reportable, 18 we say it's not reportable based on the 19 information available (inaudible).
If new 20 information comes available [ inaudible).
21 Sometimes, we don't always do it that way because 22 sometimes there is information that would lead to 23 believe that it is reportable, and those are the 24 cases that are different.
25 Swartzwelder:
No, I do not have a comment, I think its okay.
26 Kitchens:
I'll take a vote on this thing.
All in favor, 24
v ;.
I i
i raise.your hands.
Did you get a chance.to read j
2 any of'these over?
i 3
VOICE:
Nope.
4 Tynan:
(Inaudible) that I have another ISI letter.
There
-]
5 are three now --
6
. VOICE:
I don't think (inaudible).
7-Kitchens:
Tell you what, why don't, tomorrow, why don't~we
'}
8 do all those,.the annual report, and the LER that 9
we tabled, and do those at 8:30 in the morning.
10 Tynan:
There were several letters (inaudible).
11 Aufdenkampe:
What's happening on the these is the ISI people 12 (inaudible) from corporate have sent us down a 13 report, then later on they sent.us down a letter.
I 14 Kitchens:
And now we're getting a cover letter.
15 Aufdenkampe:
I will fix that problem.
16 VOICE:
When you see it, you will see it all together.
17 (Inaudible.)
18 (Inaudible simultaneous conversation with sounds 19 of paper shuffling.)
20 Kitchens:
(Inaudible) discussion item didn't seem to be 21 enough to vote on it.
(Inaudible.)
22 VOICE:
Well, I think we ought to talk about one --
23 VOICE:
One came back.
24 VOICE:
(inaudible) came back because George had.a 25 comment on the one that went to him for signature 26 (inaudible) a couple weeks ago, I guess.
He 25 e
s.
1 approved it.
He' changed all the titles and' 2
everything, but George asked for the -- he asked 3
for the changes on those two pages.
4.
Tynan:
Basically change operation-(inaudible) 5 superintendent to be superintendent, but the 6
section on responsibility in the back (inaudible).-
7 The problem -- and I sent it.back to George this 8
morning -- I haven't~ heard from him -- is the FSAR 9
is exactly what it means.
So.in order to change 10 that second page, we have to --
11 Kitchens:
I looked at that before.
It used to be more this 12 way, and then we changed it and we changed the 13 FSAR to be the other way.
I think that George's 14 direction in asking us to change.it back is okay, i
15-but I remember when it was --
16 (Inaudible conversation.)
17 Kitchens:
And give George the information.
i 18 (Inaudible conversation.)
19 Kitchens:
(Inaudible) George found that out, he was 20 (inaudible).
We are directed to (inaudible).
21 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
22 Kitchens:
After you hear back from George, let us know.
23 What are you going to do, we'll approve this under 24 the -- this is in addition to the previous one we 25 approved, and the tech evaluation that went with 26 it, or do you want to do another (inaudible)?
26
__._m_______
Tu e
1 Tynan:
(Inaudible) to approve it (inaudible) technical 2
evaluation, that's correct.
But I cannot actually 3
(inaudible) approve it without seeing it.
The 4
only thing I can (inaudible) approve is that first 5
page change.
6 (Inaudible simultaneous conversation.)
7 Aufdenkampe:
Why don't we just table it?
8 VOICE:
(Inaudible.]
9 Kitchens:
In the meantime, is George holding up signing all 10 the other changes that you had to it?
11
[ Marginalia Discussion of computer software 12 control procedure to end of tape (Side A, p. 86).]
13 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
14 Kitchens:
Okay.
Let's talk about the flow chart now.
i 15 Tynan:
What I did for (inaudible) synopsis of (inaudible) 16 required in this Procedure 410.
(Inaudible) over 17 the last seven months more controls into our 18 software program, not hardware, software, 19 (inaudible) quality assurance (inaudible).
What 20 this procedure does is pretty much mimics what 21 Plant Farley has [ inaudible)..
This procedure does 22 have (inaudible), but it provides you with generic 23 procedures in specific categories, A, B,
or C, and 24 these categories have specific requirements 25 (inaudible) combination of the documentation, 26 approval, what level of approval, (inaudible). The 27
^
36
.<D i
p.
'1.
second page is kind of an example where
.2 (inaudible) software (inaudible) different 3
categories'(inaudible).- 'The procedure is not 4
4 specific; it'doesn't say (inaudible) this 5
category, or (inaudible).- It doesn't say that,,
6 you havauto make that' call.
7 VOICE:
'[ Inaudible.)
8 Tynan:
And the last two pages are the' comments that we 9
received from the department.
Some, we haven't 10 received, but most of them are (inaudible).
I 11 Mosbaugh:
The procedures vary.
The old procedure I
-12 (inaudible) was very specific and very hard to 13 follow, okay? The new procedure is really.not very 14 specific, and I think it's easier to follow.
But 15 it's very broad.- Any software it picks up...-
16 Swartzwelder:
I probably would, on my review,-(inaudible).
I 17 think that the 410 that exists now is extremely 18 easy for me to follow, and the new one would be I
19 extremely difficult for me to follow.
And I feel-20 that just like design change requests, computer 21 software change requests should be handled in the 22 exact same type manner, and I shouldn't have to 23 get involved in the level of detail that 24 (inaudible).
25 Aufdenkampe:
Well, the flow in here is exactly the same as 26 (inaudible). (Movement sounds.)
The only 28
=
- i. -
1 difference is the departments are responsible for 2
their own software [ inaudible).
That's the 3
difference.
4 (Inaudible conversation.]
t 5
. VOICE:
Why do I want to do that?
6 Swartzwelder:
You have one in your office.
7 (Inaudible conversation.)
8 VOICE:
The question is why do I want to do that, i
9 Swartzwelder:
No reason I know of.
i 10 Aufdenkampe:
Well, no, that's not true, Jim, I'll take that 3
11 back.
What you have to do -- (inaudible).
You 12 don't really have to do that.
What you have to be l
13 able to show is it's not a Category A or B i
14 software.
The only real way to do that that the 15 procedure recognizes is to do the (inaudible).
So 16 if you're comfortable.that what you've got on your
]
17 PC is not an A or a B, and nobody would ever 18 question it, then you're fine.
But if it's a 19 Category A or B software, then you've got 20 (inaudible) it falls under 410.
An example, and 21 there are several examples, Category A is to 22 performance safety functions.
Category B is used 23 to verify regulatory compliance.
If you use an 24 algorithm in the computer to verify compliance 25 with tech spec, you have to do a software, you 26 have to control the software.
29
A.
3 1
VOICE:
(Inaudible.)-
2
'Aufdenkampe:
It doesn't, it doesn't, and that was part of QAs 3
finding.
If the surveillance tracking program 4
make sure that you comply with the 1.25 and the 5
3.25 limits and you do all your surveillances on 6
time, then you've got to control the software.
7 VOICE:
What I'm saying is, if (inaudible) makes those 8
comments in there, why do I got to go fill out a 9
sheet to do that?
10 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
One of 14 sheets you've got to fill 11 out.
12 Aufdenkampe:
If it's a C, then if it's a C you have one sheet 13 to fill out, period.
l 14 Kitchens:
You'll have to document that it wasn't an A or B.
15 Aufdenkampe:
We can even make it so if you don't want to fill 16 out, you don't have to fill it out.
But it really 17 kind of says that, I think.
We can make that 18 clearer.
But the bottom line is, you know, if 19 Mike doesn't fill one out on surveillance tracking 20 program, okay, then he's wrong.
21 VOICE:
Right.
You're right.
22 (Simultaneous conversation.)
23 VOICE:
That's true.
24 VOICE:
I'm not sure who's right, but you're wrong.
25 Aufdenkampe:
Now, Mike would argue -- Mike would argue that the 26 surveillance tracking computer program system is a 30
e.
1 C.
(Inaudible) used to ensure compliance with j
i regulatory requirements.
- 3' (Inaudible conversation.)
- 4 Mosbaugh: '
What I... what I hear people asking for is l
- 5 basically the procedure would require an 1
6 evaluation of the software, and then require 1
1 7
sheets to be filled out if it was A or B.
I 8
Kitchens:
A would be, like Jim said, the design change 9
procedure, and B would be like (inaudible).
10 Curtis would probably worry about it, somebody 11 like that.
(Inaudible.)"
C is --
J 12 VOICE:
Nobody worries about it.
13 VOICE:
Yes.
C is other.
14 Aufdenkampe:
Well, it's something different.
The procedure, if 15 it's an A, there are a lot of document i
16 requirements.
17 Kitchens:
And you (inaudible) change the ERF computer i
18 program or (inaudible).
19 VOICE:
There are a lot of document requirements..
20 VOICE:
I had another comment on (inaudible).
21 Aufdenkampe:
The proteus computer has both A and B software.
22 (Inaudible conversation.)
23 VOICE:
When we did Unit 1 pre-ops, it was a problem.
24 Software error.
25 VOICE:
It was a software error.
26 Aufdenkampe:
But I told him, I told him (inaudible).
31 p
.,p 3
,_g
,p
~1 s.*i..
- -~ e -
.i 4
i 1.
(Inaudible conversation.)
{
2 Mosbaugh:
The PC program.
. VOICE:.
The PC program.
.3 4
VOICE:
It's in there, isn't it?
5 VOICE:
[ Inaudible.)
6 VOICE:
Yeah, but you.can't turn in a PC program and say
-7 that you (inaudible) because you got to send in 8
the data, and they evaluate the data, not the l
9 program.
10 VOICE:
(Inaudible.]
11 Kitchens:
(Inaudible) programs at NRC and they've got 12 (inaudible) generic approval (inaudible) also.
If
'13 we made up our own and did it, it would be I-14 different.
15 VOICE:
That's a good point of the program.
(Inaudible.)
16 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
17 Aufdenkampe:
You don't have to validate -- you don't have to 18 validate DBase-2 or DBase or Lotus or anything 19 like that. The procedure doesn't. require you to 20 verify that, but if you write a macro for Lotus, 21 and you do an IO, you have to verify that the IO 22 works.
23 VOICE:
We still have the Marathon program (inaudible).
R24 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
You have to. verify the application.
25 Aufdenkampe:
The argument would be -- the argument would be 26 (inaudible) temp mods data base.
The control room 32
~
l 1
calls and says are any temp mods are restraining 2-one from going to mode 5,.the engineers go verify 3
that, and they verify that by going and polling 4
the database and seeing what temp mods are open,.
5 okay.
6 Kitchens:
(Inaudible) go look at the [ inaudible), but 7
otherwise, they (inaudible).
8 VOICE:
(Inaudible) all John.
That's a hard one.
9 (Inaudible conversation.]
10 VOICE:
It is.
11 Kitchens:
You can make an argument that's a B, or you can 12 make an argument that that's a C.
13 Aufdenkampe:
You know, I was probably figure that would be a c.
14 (Simultaneous inaudible discussion.)
15 Aufdenkampe:
It would fall under the c if you went through the 16 checklist probably.
I can't guarantee that 17 because it's not really the source document.
18 Mosbaugh:
It's a backup.
19 VOICE:
What if you don't use a source document?
20 Aufdenkampe:
If you don't -- the question will be, do you have 21 a source document, okay?
Let's take your 22 surveillance tracking computer.
Do you manually 23 track when the surveillances are done to make sure 24 that they're done on time, or does the computer 25' calculate to the next (inaudible).
26 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
33
1L.
Aufdenkampe:
I'm not asking if you have paperwork records.
2 There's a difference.
3 (Inaudible conversation.)
4 Mosbaugh:
No, it's really different on.the temp mod.
You 5
should have an LCO --
-6 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
7 Mosbaugh:
The temp mod --
8 Swartzwalder:
(Inaudible) for every temp mod, no.
9 Mosbaugh:
You'should.
10 Swartzwelder:
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
11 VOICE:
First of all, (inaudible).
12 Mosbaugh:
If the temp mod has affected a tech spec, I would 13 think you would be --
14 VOICE:
It requires a tech spec change.
(Inaudible.)
j 15 VOICE:
I would think you would --
16 Swartzwelder:
(Inaudible.)
It would be an unreviewed safety 17 question.
18 Mosbaugh:
You didn't understand.
)
19 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
20 VOICE:
If a temp mod in-oped something, then you ought to l
21 have an LCO on it.
22 Swartzwelder:
Absolutely.
23 Mosbaugh:
That's what I'm saying, i
24 Swartzwalder:
Absolutely.
25 VOICE:
But if it doesn't take away anything, I don't have 26 an LCO.
(Inaudible.)
34 i
I
' *r 1
Mosbaugh:
I mean, that's why we do that review that you're 2
talking about.
That's where we' started out.
3 Okay? But that's a backup check because the 4
primary check should be the LCOs themselves.
5 That's all I'm saying.
6 (Inaudible conversation.)
7 VOICE:
(Inaudible) checking to see if there's anything 8
else (inaudible).
9 VOICE:
Right.
10 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
11 Mosbaugh:
It's a backup to the LCOS.
That's the way I'd use 12 it.
13 Aufdenkampe:
You know, I know that the algorithms that we use 14 to (inaudible) calculate (inaudible) they verify 15 our compliance to the tech spec, I feel that 16 (inaudible) that the frequency (inaudible) it goes 17 in and takes the date input (inaudible).
That 18 part is C.
Now, the report-generating portion of 19 the software?
(Inaudible.)
In general, I would 20 say that is a B.
21 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
22 Aufdenkampe:
That may end up being a D.
It's not easy. I'm not 23 arguing that it's easy.
24 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
25 VOICE:
Well --
26 Kitchens:
We get people all the time that make decisions 35
e
.1 (inaudible) control room and maintenance job J
2 (inaudible) necessary.
This says that four amp 3
fuse, and they go and get that.
4 Aufdenkampe:
But they don't go'back to the design document in 5
the power run.
6 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
7 VOICE:
How about commitment tracking?
8 (Inaudible conversation.)
9 VOICE:
There's not one person that.has all the input 10 (inaudible).
11 VOICE:
It obviously verifies (inaudible).
12 (Inaudible conversation.)
13 Aufdenkampe:
You know, if we pull a safety clamp on the NPMIS:
I 14 screen for 61J or 212, something like that, that's l
15 where we get that information?
16 VOICE:
(Inaudible.]
i 17 VOICE:
I know we verify commitments, in an outage, we get 18 a printout from the computer with all our i
19 commitments for that outage.
20 Aufdenkampe:
That's George's concern.
That's George's concern.
21 And there's some legitimacy to that concern 22 (inaudible) but it is a major burden.
23 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
24 VOICE:
The NRC's been on our back before.
25 (Simultaneous discussion.)
26 Mosbaugh:
Have we gone and looked to see what the sister 36
1 plant is doing?
2 VOICE:
Well, we need to (inaudible) QA.
3 VOICE:
(Inaudible.]
4 VOICE:
They like it.
5 VOICE:
They're more difficult.
(Inaudible.)
6-Mosbaugh:
I mean, are they actually doing it?
7 VOICE:
Yes, they're actually doing it.
8 Mosbaugh:
They're actually doing it.
And it's not a burden 9
for them, then.
10 VOICE:
It is a burden.
(Inaudible.)
11 (Inaudible conversation.)
12 VOICE:
I doubt if they (inaudible).
13 Mosbaugh:
Are they really doing it?
14 VOICE:
Yeah, they are.
15 Aufdenkampe:
That's what it originally said, and I said, "No,-
16 we don't want to make [ inaudible) the commitment."
17 Mosbaugh:
I mean really, are they really doing that?
18 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
19 Mosbaugh:
I find it hard to believe they're really doing it.
20 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
21 VOICE:
I don't think they're doing.it (inaudible).
22 Kitchens:
(Inaudible) comment for not having (inaudible).
23 In other words, they just don't fall in a category 24 that has to be reviewed, either like a design 25 change because it operates equipment, or like the 26 other (inaudible).
See, you do that review, and 37
'*e i
i then you do (inaudible).
2 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
3 Kitchens:
We've got to get some more details (inaudible).
4 Aufdenkampe:
We do that if we -- we do that Skip (inaudible)
- 5 single sheet that you do that says this is an A, 6
B, or C, and it asks questions, and if the answer
{
7 comes up with a B, the department manager signs 8
it, and then it goes to vault, okay?
Now, we l
9.
could have the -- we can do the review and say 10 it's a C and throw it away, but (inaudible) will
-11 come back and --
12 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
13 (Simultaneous discussion.)
14 Kitchens:
When we're talking about the mechanics of the 15 procedure, you can have a list of exactly what 16 computers or what categories, and then it will be 17 easy (inaudible) ask that question.
(Inaudible.)
18 (Inaudible conversation.)
19 VOICE:
Where the report comes from.
- 20 Kitchens:
I don't think that can resolve (inaudible).
21 VOICE:
Yes.
Well, we used to do it (inaudible).
That's 22 where George gets his report.
23 Kitchens:
We want to be able to say, no, that's really just 24 for payrol).
When George looks at, he's going to 25 (inaudible).
26 (Laughter.)
38
's 1
VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
2 Kitchens:'
Yes, they did.
It is an indication that --
3 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
4 Kitchens:
You've got to be careful when you go and look at 5
the payroll, look at what hours, because sometimes 6
(inaudible) funny things with the sheet that they 7
really wasn't there all the time, and [ inaudible).
8 (Inaudible conversation.)
9 Kitchens:
I don't know of any of the drawings around here 10 anymore, but I believe we're going to be forced to 11 do something more like this, even if it weren't 12 for the QA.
(Inaudible.)
It would probably be 13 better if we come out and draft the procedure 14 ourselves and what we want and what we can live 15 with.
16 VOICE:
(Inaudible) pressurizing level (inaudible) leak 17 rate calculations, I guess (inaudible) pressurizer 18 temperature (inaudible)?
19 VOICE:
He gave us a violation once already on computer 20 software control.
21 (Inaudible conversation.)
22 VOICE:
We almost -- we thought we headed that one off, 23 but (inaudible).
I just really anticipate that 24 the next guy that comes down here and looks at our 25 computer software control unless we change our 26 program.
39
.1 VOICE:
You know,.I would maintain we already have some 2
computer control over proteus and ERF.
We have a 3
procedure we call --
.4 (Simultaneous discussion.)
5
. Kitchens:
-- no muss, no fuss (inaudible).
Now,.whether i
6 that's adequate or not, it's a little different-7 from this.
From what I'can. see, that's a 8
Category A.
1 9
10
- END TAPE No. 57, SIDE A***
11 i
l 40
's 1
BEGIN TAPE NO. 57, SIDE B***
2 (Marginalia In JGA's office; Telecon with JGA &
3 Stringfellow on LER corrections.)
-4 Aufdenkampe:
No comments.
5 Stringfellow:
Okay.
6 Aufdenkampe:
Page 2.
7 Stringfellow:
Yeah.
8 Aufdenkampe:
No' comments.
9 Stringfellow:
Okay.
10 Aufdenkampe:
Page 3.
"According to the operator" - I'm on the 11 third paragraph.
12 Stringfellow:
I'm with you.
13 Aufdenkampe:
(Reading) "According to the operator several 14 annunciators were lit."
Then it reads "in order l
.(
15 to restore emergency power - "
16 (Pause.]
{
l 17 Stringfellow:
Power.
i 18 Aufdenkampe:
"-- the operator reset the annunciators - "
{
19 (Pause.)
20 Stringfellow:
Okay.
21 Aufdenkampe:
"-- without fully evaluating the conditions."
22 (Pause.]
23 Stringfellow:
Okay.
24 Aufdenkampe:
And then it goes "during this time."
Does that 25 take care of Hairston's comment?
l 26 Stringfellow:
Well, only to the extent that - okay, it, yeah, i
i 41 l
i
.. ^
-1 that's --
2.
Aufdenkampe:
We don't know what he saw.
3 Stringfellow:
Okay, we cannot say what he saw. Right?
4 Mosbaugh:
The first time?
5 Aufdenkampe:
What's written here - yeah.
6 Mosbaugh:
The first trip?
7 Aufdenkampe:
What was written here --
i 8
Mosbaugh:
Operations don't know.
9 Aufdenkampe:
What was written here is what he said in his 10 report, what he saw.
What I just gave you is --
11 Stringfellow:
What Hairston wants to see in there.
12 Aufdenkampe:
A little bit more than what he - we read his mind 13 in the PRB.
14 Stringfellow:
I understand.
Okay, but, the answer to Hairston's 15 question is we don't know what they actually 16 looked at on that first trip.
17 Aufdenkampe:
Well, you don't want to say that.
You can't say 18 we don't know what they looked at.
19 Stringfellow:
Well, we don't know - I guess what I'm saying is -
20 Aufdenkampe:
What you're saying is --
21 Stringfellow:
What I want to know is did they look at jacket 22 water temperature and pressure and that sort of 23 thing?
24 Aufdenkampe:
No. No.
He didn't look at much.
25 Stringfellow:
Okay.
26 Mosbaugh:
The machine --
l 42
k
+,
1 Aufdenkampe:
He was in a hurry to get power back.
2 Mosbaugh:
The machine was already tripped.
3 Aufdenkampe:
He went in and started pressing buttons.
4 Stringfellow:
His objective was to get the diesel started so 5
they probably thought, well, if I can clear these 6
annunciators and reset the thing, then I can try 7
to start it again.
Right?
8 Aufdenkampe:
We can speculate that that's what he thought.
As 9
Allen pointed out, the diesel was already tripped 10 so there wasn't much to see on the gauges and 11 stuff.
12 Stringfellow:
That's a point.
Yeah.
Okay.
But that's a -- in 13 other words, that's -- in response to Hairston's 14 concern, that's all we think we can say.
15 Aufdenkampe:
Yeah.
16 Stringfellow:
All right.
17 Aufdenkampe:
Going to page, uh, the next page.
18 Stringfellow:
Yes.
19 Aufdenkampe:
Site area emergency was declared at 8:40. Agencies 20 of the --
Government agencies notified of the 21 emergency at 8:48 central standard time.
22 Stringfellow:
Uh, huh.
23 Aufdenkampe:
Period.
24 Stringfellow:
Okay.
25 Aufdenkampe:
And delete the next... to the end of the line.
26 (Pause.]
43
e 1
(Narginalia:
This' deletes s:57 time.)
2 Stringfellow:
Okay.
3 Aufdenkampe:
There.
Now it doesn't ask the question why it 4
took us 17 minutes.
5 (Laughter of Aufdenkampe and Stringfellow.)
6 Aufdenkampe:
How's that?
7 Stringfellow:
Well, all right.
We can try that.-
In other 8
words, we can't say that part of that 17 minutes 9
was due to the problem with the ENN.
10 Aufdenkampe:
Not specifically.
11 Stringfellow:
Not specifically.
Okay.
Well I think that may be 12 okay because Hairston said, you know, that if we 13 can't say that, then he wanted to reword it to not 14 take it to, to not have the time in there.
okay?
15 Aufdenkampe:
Well that takes care of that - it takes the time 16 out.
17 Stringfellow:
All right.
18 Aufdenkampe:
The next one was that sentence you gave me for 19 direct cause.
20 Stringfellow:
Yeah.
21 Aufdenkampe:
That went through fine (meaning through the PRB) 22 and his comments about an off-site source went 23 through fine.
The next page, root cause.
24 Stringfellow:
Uh, huh.
25 Aufdenkampe:
No comment.
The next page on the 20 starts?
26 Stringfellow:
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
44
1 Aufdenkampe:
I'm struggling with that one.
2 Stringfellow:
You struggle with that one?
3 Aufdenkampe:
I'm struggling with that one. I'm trying to verify 4
that still.
5 Stringfellow:
Oh, okay.
All right.
6 Aufdenkampe:
Okay.
We think that's basically a material false 7
statement.
8 Stringfellow:
Really?
9 Aufdenkampe:
Yeah.
Well, we know for a fact that the B diesel 10-tripped at least once after March 20th.
11 Mosbaugh:
Actually, it tripped twice after March 20, or it 12 had at least two separate problems.
13 Stringfellow:
Well, do we need to take this more 20 times each 14 out then?
15 Aufdenkampe:
That's what we're thinking but I've got Tom Webb 16 reviewing the reactor operator's log and counting.
17 Stringfellow:
Okay.
18 Aufdenkampe:
I don't know where he's at.
When is Hairston due 19 back in the office?
20 Stringfellow:
He's supposed to be there now.
21 Aufdenkampe:
Oh, so you've got to hurry and get this up there, 22 huh?
23 Stringfellow:
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I -- see, I had given 24 him -- I've given Shipman, you know, the -- a 25 version -- typed version of what you guys have 26 been looking at.
So now, as soon as we get off 1
45
i O'
1
.1 the phone I'm going to run back in there and tell j
2 him what you told me, you know?
3 Aufdenkampet okay.. So anyway, I'm still looking for words for 4
you on that one, but that sentence is going to 5
have to change.
6 Stringfellow:
Okay.
What about, the thing about -- did you get 7
my message on-your machine?
8 Aufdenkampe:
Yes, I'm getting to that.
9 Stringfellow:
Okay.
I'm sorry.
10 Aufdenkampe:
Next page on corrective actions.
That went 11 through fine.
I 12 Stringfellow:
Okay.
13 Aufdenkampe:
Okay?
Now, last page.
14 Stringfellow:
Okay.
15 Aufdenkampe:
Item 6.
We've reworded that one substantially.
16 Stringfellow:
Oh.
All right.
6 17 Aufdenkampe:
Okay, are you ready?
18 Stringfellow:
Yeah.
19 Aufdenkampe:
(Reading)
"A back-up ENN system powered from the 20 AT&T system, which previously existed and was 21 operational for South Carolina agencies, has been 22 extended to include Georgia local and State 23 agencies."
24 Stringfellow:
"Has been extanded to include Georgia local and 25 State agencies."
1 26 Aufdenkampe:
Yes, then cross out the entire last sentence and 1
46 1
l
u o; 1
il.
write this.
2 Stringfellow:
Oh, all right.
Okay.
3-Aufdenkampe:
(Reading) " Instructions have been'given to i
4 emergency directors and communicators concerning 5
use of the emergency communication systems."
6 Stringfellow:
" Systems" plural?
7 Aufdenkampe:
" Systems" plural.
(
-8 Stringfellow:
Okay.
9 Aufdenkampe:
That's what they said.
10 Stringfellow:
Let me read it back.
" Instructions have been 11 given to emergency directors and communicators 12 concerning use of the emergency communication 13
- systems."
14 Aufdenkampe:
Is that right?
Is it " systems?"
That's on that 15 George letter.
Do you have that?
I think I've j
16 got.that.
Allen has a hard time with using that l
17 but he didn't vote.
He abstained due to lack of 18 review time.
l 19 Mosbaugh:
I happen to be an emergency director.
20 Aufdenkampe:
Are you an emergency director?
21 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
And I haven't -- don't feel that I've been i
22 given very much.
23 Aufdenkampe:
But, you have been given something, right?
i
.24 Mosbaugh:
I've been given one sheet that I got with my badge 25 one day.
I 26 (Pause.)
j j
47 l
)
=-.
1 Aufdenkampe:
I can't find it.
2-
.Stringfellow:
Well, we'had " systems" in there before, so I guess 3
that's okay.
4 Aufdenkampe:
Okay.
5 Stringfellow:
Okay.
Oh, on number 5, they've identified.--
6 instead of just saying a laboratory test program, 7
they said -- they identified Wyle Laboratories.
8 Aufdenkampe:
Yes, that's what I've got -
"in addition a test 9
program will be conducted at Wyle Laboratories."
10 Stringfellow:
Okay, okay, good.
You got that.
All right, okay, 11 you got that.
I thought maybe Shipman might have 12 adjusted something after I called you but 13 apparently not.
Okay, good.
All right, John I 14 think we've -- let's see.
We're down to -- now 15 we're down to the 20, 20 times each question.
16 Aufdenkampe:
You want me to hold on and see if I can get a hold 17 of Tom Webb real quick?
18 Stringfellow:
Yeah, I'll be glad to.
19 (Aufdenkampe puts Stringfellow on hold and calls 20 odom.)
21 VOICE:
This one's going to be a killer.
22 (Pause.)
(Phone rings.)
23 odom:
Hey John.
24 Aufdenkampe:
Hey, do you know how Tom Webb's doing?
25 Odom:
He was heading over to the control room, because 26 he didn't have two or three days here of the logs.
48
.S-I l
~l' But he was headed over to the control roca to fill 2
it in.
3
-Aufdenkampe:
Okay. Is he going to call back -- well.
Who's ha 4
going to call when he finds out?
1 5
Odom:
He's just going to come back, I think. 'Is it 6
going.in the LER7 7
Aufdenkampe:
Yeah.
8 Odom:
Oh.
You know.this is not going to be " valid" 9
information now.
It is going to be control room, 10 which is -- and then you have to interpret whether 11 it's a valid start or you know, a. valid attempt or 12 not.
13 Aufdenkampe:
All -- we aren't looking for valid failures or 14 invalid failures.
All we're looking for is starts 15 and trips.
That's what he's looking at, right?
16 Odom:
I told him valid failures -- valid starts and 17 valid -- yes, starts and failures is what I told 18 him.
19 Mosbaugh:
The wording in the LER that came from Corporate 20 does not use the word valid.
21 Aufdenkampe:
Yeah.
22 Odom:
But he can't do that anyway.
The logs don't say 23 whether its valid or not.
24 Aufdenkampe:
Right.
I understand.
And that's because Ops does 25 not make that determination.
26 Odom:
Yeah.
Right.
49 s
a.a 1
Aufdenkampe::
,okay.
2 Odom:
I'll find out uhere he's at.
3' Aufdenkampe:-
Okay, you better.
Jack's on the other line 4
waiting.
5 odom:
All right.
6 Aufdenkampe:
Okay.
Thanks.
7.
(Aufdenkampe ends phone call with Odom and returns 8
to Stringfellow.)
9 Aufdenka:npe:
You there still?
10 Stringfellow:
I'm here.
11 Aufdenkampe:
We don't know yet.
j 12 Stringfellow:
You don't know yet, but now, you know, I just --
13 it just dawned on me what Allen was saying a 14 minute ago.
In other words, if we say, "and no 15 failures or problems have occurred in any of these 16 starts," you are saying that that's not true.
17 Aufdenkampe:
Yes, I'm saying that's not true.
18 Stringfellow:
Oh, wonderful.
Okay.
19 Aufdenkampe:
So, which is also telling you that -- it's telling 20 you something else, I imagine.
Because you know 4
21 this has been written to the NRC once already.
22 Stringfellow:
Yes, I know.
That's exactly what I was thinking.
23 Aufdenkampe:
So, I'm working on that.
24 Stringfellow:
All right, John.
Okay.
Well, I'll be patiently 1
25 waiting or impatiently waiting or however you want 26 to look at it. (Laughing.)
50
1 Aufdenkampe:
Okay.
Well, I must be off.
2 Stringfellow:
Thanks.
3 Aufdenkampe:
Bye.
4 (Phone call with Stringfellow ends.]
[ Pause.)
5 Mosbaugh:
Do you have that other letter?
6 Aufdenkampe:
Huh?
7 Mosbaugh:
Do you have Hairston's confirmation.of action 8
response letter?
9 Aufdenkampe:
Yeah.
10 Mosbaugh:
Because that's the one whero corporate --
11 Aufdenkampe:
Where they lied -- I mean they --
12 Mosbaugh:
-- made that statement previously.
13 Aufdenkampe:
Mr. Jimmy, hey, what are you doing down here sir?
14 Voice:
I just came by to say hello and see if I can talk 15 to you a little bit about this conoseal blowdown 16 question.
17 Aufdenkampe:
You mean it's going to be done Friday?
18 Voice:
It's going to be done tomorrow.
It may be done 19 today.
20 Mosbaugh:
That go out to you guys?
21 Aufdenkampo:
Yeah.
22 Mosbaugh:
Went to cliff and then went to you?
23 Aufdenkampe:
Yeah.
24 Mosbaugh:
Let me see if I can't pull soma diesel stuff from 25 Kochery.
26 Aufdenkampe:
Okay.
Ken Stokes is working on it.
51 4
c.
1 1
1 (Pause.)
-2
[ Marginalia Fochery's office.)
l 3
Mosbaugh:
So what -- A, B okay.
That's it. We're working on 4
the LER.
It's got to go in today.
From the --
5 okay.
So from the inadvertent start.
~
6 Kochery:
Yeah.
It has to be from a sequencer.
7 Mosbaugh:
You think it's from a sequencer, not from this?
8 Kochery:
It's [ inaudible) through the wire.
It'doesn't 9
matter which wire they pulled (inaudible).
10 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
11 Kochery:
The sequencer is out of service.
If they did the 12 test, and, you know, energized the relay, 13 (inaudible,) if (inaudible,) the diesel starts 14 through that one.
You (inaudible).
You should 15 have brought in a B train sequencer come on, the 16 diesel (inaudible) start at the time, you know.
17 It's not -- it has nothing to do with the ESFAS 18 test.
There is an ESFAS test, and they continue 19 with the other tests also.
That's the problem.
I 20 mean, they go to the sequencer and than push the 21 sequencer buttons, you know. Like this one.
22 Mosbaugh:
What if they didn't push the button?
That would 23 cause it, wouldn't it?
24 Kochery:
They say they got this light, you know.
25 Mosbaugh:
They say they got a light.
Let's say that's a 26 lie.
Does everything get explained then? I mean, 52
i 1
.1
.could it have been, you know, a simple error, or
-2 would some other things have happened?
j 3
Kochery:
If -- okay.
If they push the light.in, they.got 4
.the light, and then they test SI.
That's what.
]
5, they said they did.
l 6
Mosbaugh:
Uh-huh..
7
-Kochery:
And the diesel started.
]
8 Mosbaugh:
What if they forgot?
What if they forgot to push 9'
that block?
l 10-Kochery:
Then --
11-Mosbaugh:
And indeed they didn't get the light?
12 Kochery:
Okay.
Then --
)
13 Mosbaugh:
T?can it would have started?
14 (Pause.)
)
15 Kochery:
Yeah, Yeah.
You see when you push that --
l 16 Mosbaugh:
So it could have been something as simple as --
17 you know, I understand that they're not saying 18 that.
19 Kochery:
Okay.
If the sequencer is in the sequence mode, 20 when you push this one --
21 Mosbaugh:
Yes.
22 Kochery:
(Pause) This... that means [ inaudible) and.you 23' can get one, you know.
)
.24 Mosbaugh:
So it's either that or there's something wrong 25 with the sequencer, you're thinking.
26 Kochery:
And then it's (inaudible).
You got the diesel 53 1
+
o 1
(inaudible).
Yeah.
That's that block diesel 2
engine.
3 (Beeper noise.]
4 Mosbaugh:
All right.
Birmingham's calling.
5 Kochery:
If test block diesel engine is not there.
You l
6 push the button, you can get it started, you know.
l 7
Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
Okay. I got to call, call the duty people.
8 (Pause.)
(Walking sounds.)
9 Mosbaugh:
Any new status on the torsional test?
10 Blount:
Kavi and Bill haven't been back up yet, so I have 11 no new (inaudible).
)
l 12 VOICE:
Okay.
l 13 (Telephone ringing.)
I 14 (Pause.)
(Walking sounds; door closing sound; l
i l
15 telephone dialing sound.) (Mosbaugh calls Shipman, 16 phone dial tone.)
l 17 Shipman:
Hello.
l 18 Mosbaugh:
Yeah, this is Allen Mosbaugh.
l 19 Shipman:
Hey Allen, this is Bill Shipman.
20 Mosbaugh:
Say Bill.
l 21 Shipman:
Do you think you can talk for a minute?
22 Mosbaugh:
I am.
23 Shipman:
Great -- Help!
l 24 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
l l
25 Shipman:
Uh, the uh, LER, you know, we're, we're, we're 26 trying to get all these Hairston question 54 t
p.1.gv.,;
I' 11 answered.
i.
L-21 Mosbaugh:
.All right.
3 Shipman:
There are.two things,:I guess,~ George (Hairston]
4 has asked us, you know, to find out and, and I' 5'
guess you were, you and, you.were probably.at the 6
time talking with Jack and Jack answered, I guess 7
one of the questions, and the question has to do 8
with, when the operators went into the diesel 9
panel the first time --
}
10 Mosbaugh:
Right.
11 Shipman:
-- it has to do with whether they observed any of 12 the instrumentation or whether they just went and 4
13 noticed the annunciators lit and reset the
^
14 annunciators.
George has remembered. hearing 15-somewhere that the operators looked'at some l
16 pressure gauges or something for some.of the 17 diesel engine functions.before they reset the 18' annunciators, and you'know, I don't know what the
'19 operator did, but he's so insistent in trying to 20 respond -- to get a response to that question.
21 I wondered if the operator or the operators who l
22 was on shift or who went into the diesel room at j
23 that time is on shift now and comebody could ask 24 him a direct question?
25 Mosbaugh:
I'll find him and we will get him on the phone.
26 Shipman:
That would be great.
55 t
1 Mosbaugh:
You know, I mean,.he may not be on shift, in'which 2'
case we can try to reach him at home.
I can.go do 3-all that.
4 Shipman:
Do you understand, Allen that --
l 5
Mosbaugh:
My. understanding.is that I don't think they looked.
6 at much.
7 Shipman:
I don't either.
8 Mosbaugh:
Okay. I was in the critique.
I don't -- I did --
9 I did --
uh, I was in the meeting with Al Chaffee 10 and the team when they interviewed the operators 11 that first responded to the panel, and I recall 12 them talking to Al Chaffee about that, but,.you l
13 know, they -- the gist of that conversation is 14 that they didn't (laughing) scrutinize things very 15 much and, you know, indeed the diesel had already 16 tripped.
So when they got into the room, it was a r
17 good number of -- well, it was minutes later and 18 the machine had already tripped.
Nobody was in 19 the room when the machine tripped.
And, uh, so i
20 all they could have observed, you know, when they 21 got in, was what remained lit at that time and any l
22 machine parameters that were still valid with the 23 machine tripped.
That's all that was physically 24 available to observe.
25
[ Pause]
26 Hello.
Hello.
[ Shipman was disconnected.
56
- - + - - - - - - -
h *.
1 Mosbaugh calls him back.)
2 (Phone dial tone.) (Telephone ringing.)
3 shipman:
Hey, Allen.
4 Mosbaugh:
Something happened.
5 Shipman:
About the time you started telling me about 6
sitting with Chaffee.
7 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
8 Shipman:
We just sort of lost you.
9 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
Anyway, I was in there like I said, they 10 didn't, you know, respond that they saw very much.
11 Indeed, nobody was in the room when it tripped.
12 Shipman:
Right.
13 Mosbaugh:
It tripped before they got to the room.
All they 14 could have seen, all that would have been 15 available to see, would be whatever annunciators 16 remained lit and whatever engine parameters 17 remained valid with the machine stopped.
18 Shipman:
Right.
19 Mosbaugh:
So that docsn't leave a whole lot.
20 Shipman:
Okay.
21 Mosbaugh:
And I believe that, you know, they cleared the 22 annunciators, you know, without much assessment.
23 Shipman:
Well, I put myself in their place and I would have 24 walked in the room and said, yeah, there is some 25 annunciators lit and reset them and all the things 26 that would have cleared would have cleared and 57
l 7..
(-
l
~ those that were still' valid alarms would have.
[
2 remained lit and I would have gone on and tried to 3~
get the diesel started.
4 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
5 Shipman:
So, you know, I don't have a problem with'what 6-we've got written, but George does, and'I just 7
need to get a --
8 Mosbaugh:
Yeah, okay.
Let me do my best.
I'll try to find' 9
-- to'see if the operator is here.
If he is here, 10 we'll try to get him.
If he is at home, we will 11 try to call him and I'll see if I can set that up.
12 so we can ask the questions.
13 Shipman:
Okay and the other, of course, the other quastion 14 we have been trying to get an answer to is to t
15 reassure George [Hairston) that we have had more 16 than 20 valid starts since, you know, March 20, 17 like we say in the LER.
18 Mosbaugh:
Yeah, now you realize I think there is a problem 19 with the way that is stated, because, you know, 20 the machine -- we can -- you know, we got one of 21 the guys trying to find what the total number of 22 the valid starts is, but there were failures.
23 Shipman:
The problem that we got, Allen, is that the data 24 that is in LER is what George wrote and took and 25 told to the, Ebneter last Monday in Atlanta.
26 Mosbaugh:
Well, you know, if anybody said that there weren't 58 l
e,.
1 any failures, you know, that's just not true.
2 Shipman:
Well, if you look at George's (Bockhold) outline 3
that he made to take to Atlanta with him, he says, t
4 at that time, it was like 18 and 19.
5 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
6 Shipman:
And without a failure.
7 Mosbaugh:
Umm.
8 Shipman:
So, you know, somebody had given George that 9
information.
10 Mosbaugh:
On the B?
11 shipman:
Have we had a failure since George went to --
12 Mosbaugh:
No, on the B.
Let me, let me tell you what I 13 know, okay.
On the B machine, on the B machine on 14 3/22 at 12:43, the machine tripped on high lube 15 oil temperature.
16 Shipman:
Caused by what?
17 Mosbaugh:
Caused by the switch that gives you a high lube 18 oil temperature, probably (laugh).
19 Shipman:
No.
I understand that, but did we not have a --
l 20 Mosbaugh:
I don't believe a high temperature physical j
21 condition existed.
I believe --
22 Shipman:
Was that a valid -- considered a valid failura?
23 Mosbaugh:
I haven't assessed these for being valid or not.
24 Shipman:
See, because we, I could -- we could, we could 25 solve the problem that is created by that 26 information by saying no valid failures.
59
F 1
t 1
2 Mosbaugh:
(Looking at a document.)
Let me find -- I think 3
we've got one other one.
Here it is.
[ Reading) 4 "On 3/23 at 17:31, the machine tripped on low" --
5 this is B machine again -
"on low jacket water 6
pressure / turbo lube oil pressure low."
7 Shipman:
Okay.
The~first one was on what date, did you 8
say?
9 Mosbaugh:
Three-twenty-two.
10 Shipman:
Okay.
How -- you know, with that data - uh, I 11 think this thing has already been through the PRB 12 a couple of times.
How in the world did it get 13 through the PRB?
14 Mosbaugh:
What's that?
15 Shipman:
The statement --
16 Mosbaugh:
The LER or --
17 Shipman:
Yeah, the LER.
18 Mosbaugh:
Well, I mean --
19 Shipman:
Was that data not available in the PRB?
20 Mosbaugh:
The previous times that this LER went through the 21 PRB, I'm not sure if those statements were in 22 there.
23 Shipman:
Okay, Jack says " yeah, they were."
24 Mosbaugh:
They were?
25 Shipman:
Yeah.
26 Stringfellow:
In fact, the last PRB added the parenthetical 60
9 Tk i
'l phrase "more than 20 times each."
I say the last l
2'
-- not today, but the previous PRB.
3 Mosbaugh:
You know, this thing -- it'came to the PRB, you 4
know, 15 pages long the first time, and then it 5.
was basically tabled for a complete rewrite back 6
to eight pages, and --
7 Stringfellow:
It went back to the PRB as eight pages.
8 Mosbaugh:
It went back as eight and, uh, --
9 Shipman:
Well, anyway --
10 Mosbaugh:
-- anyway.
11 shipman:
Irregardless, the whole question is immaterial 12 and, you know it is just -- it's sort of a bother.
13-But what we need to do is find out what's correct 14 and make sure we only say what's correct.
15 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
I -- you know, what I have here is there 16 was a tabulation made of diesel activities early 17 on by Kochery,.and that's where I am getting this 18 information from.
And, uh, I believe these -- I' i
19 believe this tabulation was providad to the t
20 chaffee team.
21 shipman:
Well, the uh, I think people have been reviewing q
22 the diesel generator log, but that would only --
23 as we talked the other day, that only went through 24 the 13th of April.
25 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
Yeah.
This data picks up on the 13th.
26 Shipman:
Somebody, gosh, somebody must have looked.
- Allen, 61 l
(5 f..
i 1
would you take that as a second thing and try to 2
get me the correct information for that?- It 3
sounds like this'whole statement needs to be just
'4 stricken.
t 5'
Mosbaugh:
You know, I basically don't'have any beiter 6
information than the two trips I told you about on 7
the 22nd and --
8 Stringfellow:
Can you determine if those were valid tests or 9
valid failures?
10 Mosbaugh:
Let me talk to Stokes and Kochery about them.
11 Shipman:
I guess at.the point where we're in now where this 12 thing -- its been to PRB several times and we have 13 several review cycles up here and everybody has 14 gotten accustomed to seeing that data.
If we can 15 use the data we probably ought to.
Certainly, if l
16 its not a valid statement, we need to get it the 17 heck out of here regardless of what George told 18 Ebneter.. So, you know, if there is anything you 19 need to do to check to make sure the data you have
.20 from Paul (Kochery) is correct and valid, we would 21 ask that you do that, or if you feel very 22 confident that it is correct now, I just need to 23 see what I need to do about striking this 24 statement.
25 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
I feel that this is the best data there is 26 and I believe it's accurate.
I will verify with 62 i
~
l l
> Kochery though.
2 shipman:
Okay.
1 3-Mosbaugh:.
And I will. pursue trying to get a conversation
{.
4-with the operator.
l 5
-Shipman:
Okay.
Jack and I are going to leave here and walk 6
down to Mr. Hairston's office to go over his 7
comments and what we have been able'to do with 4
8 those and try to, you know, finish beating out i
i 9
what he wants to do to this thing.
And so if you 10 want, you know, if you find somebody and want to 11 call back you might just call down there.
l j
12 Mosbaugh:
What's the number?
13 Shipman:
5581.
14 Mosbaugh:
Okay.,
i 15-Shipman:
Yeah.
That's right.
Okay 16 Mosbaugh:
Will do.
We are into the' torsional test..
17 Shipman:
Right.
Wo.are into it.
18 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
We spun the machine up to 1800.
Had a 19 little problem with a seal. oil emergency pump 20 coming on, adjusted the set point, and, uh, we're i
21 back down -- coasted back down and into the 22 torsional.
23 Shipman:
Okay.
Did we come all the way back down to 100 24 and start, or did we --
25 Mosbaugh:
I think we did some at 100 on the way up.
26 Shipman:
Okay.
63
)
i 4
- q
- 1
.Mosbaugh:
So they're a little further into the procedure I
2 than the first activities at 100.
3 Shipman:
Okay. Great. I appreciate that information.
4 Thanks,. Allen.
5 Mosbaugh:
All right.
Bye.
6 VOICE:
See you later.
7 (Pause.) (Break in taping.)
8 Mosbaugh:
Do we have any idea how many valid starts we've 9
had?
You know, if we're going to speak in terms 10 of valid failures, then we need to speak in terms 11 of valid starts.
12 Kochery:
Diesel Generator 1A until the incident.
Sixty-six 13 are valid --
14
.Mosbaugh:
I'm talking about afterwards (inaudible).
Since 15 3-20.
Do we have any idea, because you haven't 16 gotten any of the paperwork from Operations.
17
' Stokes:
We've got some of the paperwork, but not much.
I l
18 can look through that and see if there are any i
19 valid failures.
It's pointless at this time 20 (inaudible).
21 Kochery:
I tell you, we didn't have any valid failures 22 after that.
i 23 Stokes:
But they may be valid tests.
24 Kochery:
Yeah.
25 Mosbaugh:
The problem is if we speak in terms of valid 26 failures, then we may have to say, out of no valid i
64
~.~
l
'l f1 failures, out of blank valid tests, okay?.
j 2
Kochery:
Yeah.-
'3 Mosbaugh:
Otherwise we're going to say no valid failures out' j
4-
,of X tests, and then we've.got apples and' oranges
.l 5
kind of compared and somebody might'think we're' 6
misleading them.
1 7-
. Stokes:
It's definitely a requirement, they say how many 8.
valid failures do you have in the 100 last tests.
i 9
Kochery:
Fine.
l 10 Stokes:
The LER always report how many valid tests we've I
i 11 had, and, you know, I told them they can make that 12 decision, whichever way they want to go.
It' 13 doesn't matter.
I told then -- you know, I.can 14 provide that as soon.as I get the information out 1
15 of Ops.
(Inaudible.)
)
16 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
The operators -- I'm getting a lot of i
.17 questions from SONOPCO now because we're~getting
-18 ready to submit the LER, okay?
They want to talk j
19 to the operators that responded to the panel.
I 20 Stokes:
Okay.
21
.Mosbaugh:
Do you know who they are?
i 22 Stokes:
Yeah, I know one name.
23 Mosbaugh:
can I get --
I 24' Kochery:
I have the name of the guy.
25 Mosbaugh:
Give me the name.
26 Stokes:
Slim Whitman was one.
I can remember that one.
65
1 Mosbaugh:
Slim Whitman.
Okay.
Can't forget that one.
See 2
if you can give me the names of the people, and 3
I'm going to call Schwartz.
4 Kochery:
(Inaudible.]
5' Mosbaugh:
Okay.
6 (Pause.)
7 Kochery:
See, I got those information from the log.
8 Mosbaugh:
This here you compiled from the Operations control 9
log or diesel log -- do they have a separate log, 10 a diesel log?
11 Kochery:
Control room log, the regular log.
12 (Pause.)
13 Mosbaugh:
All right.
Here we go.
S.L. Whitman.
Okay. What 14 is this?
Duane?
15 Kochery:
Yeah.
DeLoach.
I 16 Mosbaugh:
Oh, I've been hearing him paged today.
17 VOICE:
Yeah.
18 Mosbaugh:
And what's this?
Is that -- I can't read that.
j 19 Is that a Jackson? It almost looks like a Jackson.
l 20 Kochery:
It looks like.
Okay.
This is -- let me see.
21 Mosbaugh:
It almost looks like a J.C.,
J.C.
Jackson, it 22 looks like.
23 Kochery:
Duane DeLoach, okay, Joey Jackson.
24 Mosbaugh:
Joey, yeah.
okay.
25 Kochery:
(Inaudible.)
Here's another one.
26 Mosbaugh:
These are their statements?
66
r 9,.
i:
i
~
1 Kochery:
Yeah.
2 Mosbaugh:
Let me -- okay. This goes with this.
3 Kochery:
They go together.
4 Mosbaugh:
Is this all of them?
5 Kochery:
Yeah. That's the only --
~
6 Mosbaugh:
Only two of them gave statements?
7 Kochery:
Yeah.
8 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
9 Kochery:
I believe it's from this one, too, Allen, I think.
10 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
Let me go get Schwartz and see if can get 11 any of these people.
How are we doing.
12 Kavi:
We maintained at 1800 RPM and then they were 13 supposed to close the breaker.
They close the 14 breaker, and what they do is apply the excitation.
15 Mosb.sugh:
Yeah.
16 Kavi' They did apply the excitation.
17 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
18 Kav!. :
And then we go up to five percent of negative 19 sequence current.
20 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
21 Kavi:
And I think at that plateau, they take some i
22 readings and all that.
23 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
24 Kavi:
So we had gone up to about two-and-a-half percent 25 negative sequence current.
26 Mosbaugh:
So far.
67
I l
l' Kavi:
So far. I don't see any problem.
2-Mosbaugh:
Okay.
That's proceeding.
5 3
.Kavi:
Yes.
4 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
S' Kavi:
And it looks like after that they go to about 1925 6
overspeed test.
7 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
8 Kavi:
And then they come back again.to 100 RPM.
9 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
10 Kavi:
And -- see, at 1925, when they reached the 11 maximum, they take off the excitation and then 12 they bring it back to 100 RPM.
The apply the 13 excitation again there and turn it up and then 14 that probably will take us out of that 15 (inaudible).
16 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
Good, good.
It sounds like we're making 17-progress.
18 Kavi:
Yeah.
And they did not see any problem.
On that 19 diesel, you know --
20 Mosbaugh:
Thank you.
Yes.
21 Kavi:
Looking at the logic sequence test, evidently that 22 looked to be -- if you look at the sequencer 23 logic, drawings, you know, there appears to be a 24 signal generated when you push the buttons, you 25 know.
Two milliseconds, you know.
So the signal 26 does go.
That's what the interpretation is now.
68 L
i..C o-1 We don't know if it's right or wrong.
2 Mosbaugh:
The signal, what do you mean goes?
3 Kavi:
The diesel generator, the start signal.
4 Mosbaugh:
Oh.
Even with this in the block?
5 Kavi:
That, it should not go, though. It should go, but 6
in the block it should not.
7 Mosbaugh:
Right.
8 Kavi:
If you're looking at the logic drawing, its not 9
getting very clear.
Kenny was looking at this 10 morning.
11 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
12' Kavi:
And Ken Stokes was but trying to see (inaudible).
13 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
Thank you.
14 (Pause.)
(Break in taping.)
15 (Noise and voices in the background.)
16 (Pause.)
17 Cash:
But if the light came on, it should have stayed 18 on, and he did not know for sure it came on and 19 that it was out after he pushed it.
20 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
21 (Telephone ringing.)
-22 Cash:
Mr. Swartzwelder's office, this is Jimmy Cash.
23 Yes, sir. He's right here. Okay.
(Inaudible.)
24 Dan, (inaudible).
25 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
26 VOICE:
Hi, Jack.
Right.
69
5...
i 1
(Pause.)
2 (Jim Swartzwelder talking on the phone.)
3 Swartzwalder:
Yeah.
1.nybody present wants to talk to him?
i 4
(Pausre.)
'S VOICE:
The Senior Vice President wants to talk to'him.
6 Swartzwelder:
Mr. Hairston wants -- is having some difficulty 7
with the way things are stated in the LER dealing 8
with the Site Area Emergency and would like to 9
hear firsthand from the operator at the diesel 10 exectly what was done so he can assess whether 11 what is stated in the LER is okay.
You know, they 12 don't need to quake in their boots as they walk up 13 here.
It's no, not, no big deal.
And they're not 14 going to get yelled at by a Senior Vice President.
15 VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
16 Swartzwelder:
They're not going to be yelled at.
If anybody 17 gets yelled at because of what they say, it'll be 18 me. They will not get yelled at.
I promise you.
19 VOICE:
(Inaudible.]
20 Swartzwelder:
Okay.
You pass that word around.
Okay.
Bye-bye.
21 Cash:
They need to go get the IR transcripts 22 (inaudible).
23 Mosbaugh:
I have them.
24 (Laughter.)
25 Mosbaugh:
I have that, if you're interested.
No.
This is 26 not the transcript, this is a statement.
I'm not 70
_. ]
a p.c,.
t t
t 1:
sure I-have -
let's'see, who is'this?
i
'2
'[ simultaneous' discussion.]
[
t
'3' VOICE:
-- not from'the NRC transcript.anyway.
H
'4 VOICE:
The three PEOs.
i
'S VOICE:
Thanks, Lee.
6' Cash:
I-just wanted to [ inaudible).
7 Mosbaugh:
That's okay.
8 Cash:
And that we probably would not have an extra set 1
9
[ inaudible).
10 (Pause.)
.I i
11 Cash:
They were also going to call the [ inaudible) once j
12 they talked to I & C and find out from I & C i
13 what's the matter.
What we can do, if we run it, i
14 this is what we discussed --
i 15 VOICE:
Even.if we lift the leads.
16 VOICE:
No.
(Inaudible.)
17 Swartzwalder:
No. I mean can't we do that?
t 18' VOICE:
We're going to relay [ inaudible).
19' Cash:
(Whistling.) That is your diesel start.
If you
{
t 20 lift the lead'there and you get an SI while you're
)
21 doing testing, the diesel ain't going to start.
22-Swartzwalder:
There are several tests that we do on a diesel --
23 VOICE:
Yeah.
'24 Swartzwalder:
I mean -- and we'd have to take an LCO to test it.
[
25 Cash:
Well, not the -- what we talked about doing this, i
26 Swartzwelder:
This is a field lead they lift.
l l
71 1
)
)
I
.o i
1' VOICE:
(Inaudible.)
2 VOICE:
From being on-shift.
I'll say yes.
3 (Pause.)
4 VOICE:
(Inaudible).
5 (Pause.)
(Whistling, walking sounds.]
(Break in 6
taping.)
7 Odom:
That's not good.
The LER is nct the problem, that 8
letter sounds like the problem.
9 Aufdenkampe:
Yeah. The LER is not a problem.
10 Mosbaugh:
What?
11 Aufdenkampe:
Allen just walked in.
12 Mosbaugh:
Shipman just called me.
He's got me getting the 13 operator so that Hairston can talk to the operator 14 on that issue of what they saw when they got 15 there.
And then I gave Shipman the specifics.
So 16 you want to see these trips?
17 Aufdenkampe:
Well --
18 Mosbaugh:
Here's the trips.
19 Aufdenkampe:
Yeah, I got them.
Rick just talked to me about 20 the trips.
21 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
22 Aufdenkampe:
There's two of them.
23 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
There's two trips.
One on the 22nd and one 24 on the 23rd.
25 Aufdenkampe:
Atlanta -- what B1rmingham is thinking now is that 26 they made a material false statement in the April 72
a. '. -.
l' 9th letter.
2 Mosbaugh:
That would.be a good thing for them to think 3
about.
4 Aufdenkampe:
Who'd he say?
McCoy, Hairston and Mcdonald are 5
reviewing this now?
6 Mosbaugh:
I'm calling back into Hairston's office as soon as 7
we get the operator up here.
8 Aufdenkampe:
Is he coming to my office?
9 Mosbaugh:
No.
He's coming down to Swartz' office.
- Anyway, 10 I believe that your two failures are not valid 11 failures.
They are --
12 Aufdenkampe:
That's correct.
13 Odom:
That is correct.
14 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
15 Aufdenkampe:
There's no question about that.
16 Mosbaugh:
So, however, if you're going to speak in terms of 17 valid -- of having "no valid failures," you also 18 need to probably speak in terms of, "out of X 19 valid tests."
You know, otherwise it would appear 20 that you're trying to pick --
21 Odom:
I'll tell you something.
I got the 4/9 letter in 22 front of me, John.
23 Aufdenkampe:
Yeah.
24 Odom:
I don't think the letter is a material false l
25 statement now.
26 Mosbaugh:
I read it, and it was very marginal.
73 i
1 1
Odom:'
'It says', (Reading) "Since March 20th, the A diesel l
2 has been started 18 times and the B diesel has 3
been' started 19 times.- No failures or problems 4
have occurred during any of these starts."
That's 5'
not wrong.
6 Aufdenkampe:
It's misleading.
It is misleading.-
7 Mosbaugh:
Odom.
Try that again.
8 Odom:
It's not wrong.
It says since March 20th.
9 Mosbaugh:
Hold it.
Read it again.
10 Odom:
Okay.
(Reading)
"Since March 20th, the A diesel 11 has been started 18 times and the B diesel has 12 been started 19 times.
No failures or problems 13 have occurred during any of these starts."
14 Mosbaugh:
That is only true, that is only not materially 15 false if the total number of starts'--
16 Odom:
Is 18 and 19.
i 17 Mosbaugh:
No.
Is 20 or 20 -- what's the number on the B 18 diesel?
t 19 Aufdenkampe:
21.
20 Odom:
The letter says 19.
21 Mosbaugh:
That's only true if there have been 19 starts on 22 the B machine since 3-23 at 17:00 hours.
23 Odom:
I agree.
I see what you're saying.
You're saying 24 25 Mosbaugh:
Only if there have been 19 since 3-23 at 17:31 is i
26 that statement not false.
74
g w'.
L 1R. " '.ar l
1
, Odom:-
Since. March.20th though,. is' the meaning of that L!
i 27 sentence.
3 Mosbaugh:
I have no problem with that, because what-we're 4 ~
doing -- it's still' correct if.you can dismiss the 1
.5 period of time between 3-20 and 17:31 on 3-23..
'l i
6 It's merely since that date,'and I'm --'and then
]
7 there have been no, you know,.no. failed starts or-8 no problems, resets you to 3-23..
9 Odom:
Right.
j 10-Mosbaugh:
At 17:30.
But if there haven't been 19 starts' 11 since 17:31 on 3-23, then it's still false.
l 12 Odom:
Right.
13 Mosbaugh:
Even under that subtle interpretation.
]
14.
Odom:
Okay.
15 Mosbaugh:
So actually if somebody can verify that,.that's 16 really critical to knowing if that statement is 17 true or false.
How do we know that?. Does anybody 18 have that data?
19 Odom:
No.
20 Mosbaugh:
You're getting it?
21' odom:
I'm not getting -- I haven't started getting that 22 data.
I 23 Mosbaugh:
Hold it.
Well, if Tom's getting the total starts
)
24 history, he should concentrate on the B machine 25 and get the start information.
i 26 Aufdenkampe:
We don't have the logs.
75
n
' *4 *** 'C'.
'll Mosbaugh:
You. don't have'the logs'yet. 'You're just not'far
-2 enough along to have it.
3:
Aufdenkampe:
The -- well, the real key is that it's really got-i 4
to come from Kenny' Stokes.
i 5
Odom:
'Right.
]
6 Mosbaugh:
Well, it's got to come from Operations.
7 Operations has yet to send it to Kenny.
L 8
Aufdenkampo:
Yeah.
And it's'got to come from Kenny Stokes 9
because Kenny Stokes -- you know, I'm just talking.
)
10 about the -- telling the NRC people because Kenny.
11 Stokes is the one who makes the calls of " valid" 12 or " invalid".
)
13-Mostaugh:
Yeah, but there's no -- the letter does not use 14 the word " valid," so that can be derived fr'om log 15 data without' engineering interpretation.
Right?
16 They don't use the word " valid"?
l 17 Odom:
No.
18 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
At what date was that letter' written?
19' Odom:
Ninth of April.
20 Mosbaugh:
4-97 l
21 Odom:
Yes.
22 Mosbaugh:
Basically, if you had all the logs between 3-23
~
23 and 4-9 inclusive, you could have what you needed.
)
24 And all you'd need to do, I think, is get the B j
25-machine.
26 (Pause.)
76
.I
-~
?e ' e
..o ?
lL Mosbaugh:.
Do you have that?
2' (Pause.)
3
-Aufdenkampe:
Hello?-
4 Odom:
Yeah.
We just started talking-about.
We just 5
said -- but the problem right now is not -- the 6
LER' statement, I think, could come out.
Do you 7
all agree with that?
8 Aufdenkampe:
That's fine.
'9 Mosbaugh:
We need to know in the LER what we can say or can 10 say safely.
We have to say -- we have to either 11 say -- you can use the word " valid" in the L10R and 12 most probably be correct.
But you may have to 13 change your numbers.
9 14 Webb:
Allen?
15 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
16 Webb:
This is Tom Webb.
Do you feel like we should -- I 17 think we should do one of two things.
Just tell 18 me what you think.
We need to get rid of the 19-statement in the LER about how many failures or 20 how many tests you've got all together, or'else 21 correct the misconception that we generated on 22 April 9th.
I don't know if we should try to 23 continue the misconception that started nine days 24 ago.
25 Mosbaugh:
Mr. Hairston will have to decide on that since ha 26 signed it.
And I think, however, we have to 77
-. ~..
e-
+
')'.o 1
quickly get the information I just mentioned.
2 Odon:
We can't get it quickly is my problem.
We don't 3
have that information available.
That's got to 4
come from...
1 5
Mosbaugh:
Hold it.
Hold it, hold it, hold it.
For the B 1
6 machine, if you'll -- if you have the control logs 7
8 odom:
I don't have all the control logs is my problem 9
right now.
I've got days missing.
I can go and 10 look right know at what I got and we start on the 11 days missing.
1 12 Mosbaugh:
If you got the control logs for the B machine from 13 3-23 to 4-9 inclusive, you can do the job.
14 odom:
We're going to go look for them.
15 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
16 Williams:
You're talking about the logs from Kenny Stokes?
17 Mosbaugh:
Yeah.
18 Williams:
They're not up-to-date.
They're not current.
19 Mosbaugh:
We know that.
We're talking control room logs.
20 Williams:
Those aren't up-to-date.
21 Mosbaugh:
No, no.
Control room logs have to be filled out j
22 at the time they're generated.
Right?
23 Williams:
They do.
]
24 Mosbaugh:
Well, they sure as hell better have them.
25 Williams:
He's got all the control logs already.
26 Mosbaugh:
Well, he said he had some days missing.
78 j
't-~
-_ ' -. - - _ - - - - -., - - _ - - ~
3'sIo f
l' Williams:
I've got all of them.-
2 Mosbaugh:
You have them all?
3 Williams:
Yeah.
4 Mosbaugh:
The logs --
5 Aufdenkampe:
The reactor operators' logs?
6 Williams:
I have the RO log and the SS log.
7 Mosbaugh:
Okay. The log that would show diesel starts. Which 8
log do they log that in? The RO log?
9 Williams:
Both usually.
Both.
10 Mosbaugh:
Whichever one is most complete.
11 Aufdenkampe:
The RO log is the one that logs the starts.
" ~ " ~ '
12 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
The RO log from --
13 Sharon:
Sharon speaking.
14 Mosbaugh:
-- 3-20 to 4-9, inclusive.
15 Aufdenkampe:
Sharon, I need Rick Odom.
16 Sharon:
Hold on, please.
17 Mosbaugh:
Okay.
Do you have both of them?
j 18 Sharon:
John?
19 Aufdenkampe:
Yes?
20 Sharon:
Do you want me to go in for him?
(Inaudible.)
21 (Walking sounds; door closing sounds.) (Background 22 noise.)
23
- END TAPE No. 57, SIDE B***
24 79
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