ML20024D152
| ML20024D152 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Catawba  |
| Issue date: | 05/17/1983 |
| From: | Matthew Green, Snow L, Tuckman M DUKE POWER CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8308030219 | |
| Download: ML20024D152 (152) | |
Text
/
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD In Re:
DUKE POV'ER COMPANY, Et A1.
DOCKET NUMBERS (Catawba Nuclear Station 50 413 Units 1 and 2) 50 414 l
MAY 12,1983 9:30 A. M.
(
DEPOSITIONS O_F:
MICHAEL TUCKMAN LOWELL SNOW MICHAEL GREEN 07 95 o e i
l l
Evelyn Berger Associates 8308030219 830512 STENoTYPE REPORTING SERVICE PDR ADOCK 05000413 p o sex i.44, l
T PDR CN ARtoTTE. NORTH CAROLIN A 24219
2 1
(
2 ROBERT GUILD, ESQ.
C ha rle s ton, S.
C.
3 Couns el on Behalf of int e rvo no r, P alme tt o 4
A lli a n c e,
Incorporated 5
D E B E VOIS E & LIB ER M A N, ESQS.
W a s hin g t o n, D.
C.
6 BY:
J.
N.ichael M cG a r r y,
- III, Esq and Anne W.
C ottin gha m 7
ALBERT V.
- CARR, JR.,
ESQ.
8 R ON A LD L.
- GIBSON, ESO.
C ha rlo tt e, N.
C.
9 Counsel on B e half of A pplicant, Duke Powe r
10 Company 11 A LSO PRESbNT:
12 Roger W.
Q u e lle tt e Duke Power Company 13 Mike C hild e r s 14 Duke Power Company 15 Mic ha el F.
Lowe P alm e tt o A llia n c e,
Incorporated 16 Nina Frankel 17 Lee Ann Kornegay Electronic Recorder 18 P alm e tt o A lli a n c e.
Incorporated 19 l
20 21 22 23 24 25 EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE, CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROUNA
w 2A 1
I N D E X t
2 EIT N E S S E S DIR E CT CROSS 3
Michael Tuckman 8
147 4
Michael Green 20 147 5
Lowell Snow 8
14 7 6
7 8
9 10 11 E X H I B I T S 12 NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE i
13 Exhibit Number 1 November 2,1982, letter 61 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA e-
3 1
T he Depositions of h.ichael Tu c kma n,
(
2 Lowell Snow, and Nichael Green are taken at th e 3
Of fi c e s of Duke Power C om pa ny, C ha rlo tt e, North 4
C a r olina, on this the 12th day of M a y,
- 1983, in the 5
presence of R obe rt G uild,
Attorney on behalf of the 6
In te rv e nor; and J.
Michael M c G a r r y, III, A nn e ' W.
7 C ottin gh am, A lb e r t V.
- Carr, Jr.,
and R o nald L.
8 Gib s o n, Attorneys on behalf of the A p plic a n t.
9 It is agreed that L'i n n B.
- Gilliam, Notary 10 Public in a n'd for the State of North C a r o li n a,
may 11 take said D e p o s itio n s in m a c hine s ho rthand and 12 tra n c e ribe the same to t y p e w ri tin g.
i 13 kR.
MC G A RR Y:
Let the Record r efle ct 14 the same people who attended the prior D ep o s ition are 15 in attendance with two a d ditio n s,
hike Child e r s and 16 who me ve r you have right here.
17 We are here this mo rnin g to take the 18 Depositions of Mr.
L o we ll Snow and Michael Tuckman.
19 Bef o re commencing with those D e po sitio n s,
I would 20 li k e to note several things in the transcript with 21 respect to the S tipula tio n co n c e r nin g taking of the 22 Deposition by othe r tha n st eno gra phic means.
23 A S tipula tio n was ente red into by Palmetto
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24 and the A p plic an t s.
T ha t Stipulation is contained in 25 a Deposition of h.ary Birch taken ye s te r day, and it ir EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
4 1
cgreed there is no need to repeat that Stipulation.
2 That Stipulation remains in eff ect with 3
respect to the A pplic a nt's comment as to the lack-of 4
No ti c e of D epo sition for it s Witn e s s e s,
and with 5
recpect to the A pplica nt's p o sitio n that they are 6
a c c o m m o d a tin g Paimetto in p r o vidin g Witne s s e s for 7
D e p o s iti on s.
8 The comments contained in the D e po sition 9
of Aary Birch are a p p lic able 't o this D epo s ition.
10
/. third point concerne documents.
There II discussion about the a v aila b ilit y of docu-was some 12 ments in A a ry Bir ch' c Deposition.
We w o u ld like 13 this transcript Record to reflect that the e n ti r e FSAP 14 for C atawba ic in the room, and all necessary docu-15 ments that were in the Discovery Room of Duke Powe r 16 Company are a v ail a b le in this room today.
Two other points, this D epo sition was to I8 consist of a p a n el of three Witne s s e s.
The third is 19
- f. r.
L.ichael Green, who is knowledgeable of the 20 structural analysis.
21 Secause of a schedule c o nfli c t, and we 22 went quite late yesterday with h< a r y Birch, he is not 23 a vc ila bl e today, and we w'i l l work together to 24 reschedule his D e p o s itio n perhaps for next konday or 25 next F rida y.
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE CHARLOTTE. NOPTM CAROUPee
5 1
La s tly, I would l i. k e the Record to r e fle c t 2
in a tt endanc e at this D e p o s itio n are those p e o ple 3
whose names were reflected in h;ary Birch's 4
D e p o sition.
5 In addition, two other individuals are in 6
attendance at this D e p o s ition.
First is Michael 7
C hild e r s, an employee of Duke Power Company who is 8
acsigned to the Design E n gin e e rin g D e partm ent; and 9
he is an E n gin e e ring A r s o 'c i a t e.
10 I believe Pa lm et to A llia n c e has an additional 11 r e pr e s entative.
12
- g. S.
FE ANKEL:
Nina Frankel.
13 1: R.
GLILD:
Ms.
F ra nkel is a s sis ting us 14 in taping the D e p o s itio n.
15 16 MICHA E L TUCKMAN a nd LO W ELL SNOW, 17 having been fi r s t duly aworn to tell the truth, was 18 examined and te s tifie d as follows:
19 MR.
G UIL D:
.V y name is R obe rt G uild.
I 20 met you before, h: r.
Tuckman and Mr.
Snow.
I am 21 C oun s el and Intervenor in the li c e n si n g case, as 1 22 am sure you know, and I would like to ack you some 23 que s tion c in p re paration for our case on the s u bj e c t 94 of C o nt e n tio n Nu m be r 16 whic h has been A d tn i t t e d.
25 L! r.
- Tuckman, both g e n t l e n. e n,
a c t u r.11 y ;
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CDsARLOTTE. NORTM CAROLINA
6 1
I would ask since both of you a.r e coing to be e p e a kin g
(
2 interchangeably in response to come qu e s tio n s,
that 3
you a ll o w the other to fi ni s h b ef or e you jump in.
4 We would hare a bit of dif fic ulty s o rtin g 5
out the voices on our ta p e.
It will be Palmetto 6
A llia n c e 's R ec ord of the Deposition, and I will tr y 7
to slow down so my voice will be dis tinc t, and I 8
would ask you to do so as w e ll.
9 It might be h e l p f'u l if you w r. n t to inter-10 ject an answer, to id entif y yourself before you speak--
11 1.11 c h c c 1 Tuckman, let me add a few c omm ent s --that 12 would h elp us cla rif y th e answers.
13 I wa nt to try to obtain some in f o r mation on 14 the subject of our C o n t e n tio n 16.
.I f qu e s tio n e 1 ask 15 are not clear, the terms I am using rre unclear or 16 I am not m a kin g mys elf und e r s to od, please feel free 17 to stop and ask for c la r ifi c a tio n.
18 Ask what I mean by a term; othe rwis e, I
19 will understand and as sume you have understood the 20 q ue s tio n and your answer is responsive to the qu e s tio n 21 the way it was csked.
22 I would like to be in f o r ma l, so if I'm not 03 g e ttin g to the heart of the matter, and there is an 94 obvious a s sumption or mis tak e of fact, please feel
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25 free to correct me and help us so we can get down EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA t
Direct 6
Tuckman, Snow 1
to the actual inf o r m a tion needed.
2 3
D1R EC T EXA MIN A TION 4
BY MR.
GUILD:
5 Q
Now, hr.
T uckman, I b e lie v e that you 6
participated in a n's w e r in g some of the e a rli e r 7
Inte rr o gato rie s and R e qu e s t for P r o d uction file d by 8
p alm e tt o A llia nc e on the cubject of our C ont e ntio n 16; 9
didn't you?
10 MR.
TE CKM AN:
- Yes, sir; tha t 's correct.
11 MR.
GUILD:
C oun s el, I have two 12 documents in front of me.
Can we s tipu-(~
13 late that Mr.
Tuckman participated in 14 r e s pondin g to answers that are reflected in 15 both of these documents ?
16 MR.
CARR:
Let me check the file, 17 Bob.
I know he did on the first one.
Mr.
18 Tuckman did not p a r ticip at e in r e s po ndin g 19 to your f ollow up Interrogatories.
20 Our Response to that was file d on 21 3/25/83.
He did participate in the R e s pon s e, our Response to your initial 22 23 Interrogatories, which were fil e d Octobe r 19, 24 1982.
M I b elle ve that Roger would be the EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES, STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. enORTM CAROUNA d
v
T uc kman, Snow Direct 9
I appropriate Duke person who is r e s po ns ible 2
for the f o llo w up Responees on IJ u m b e r 16, 3
your Response dated N. arch 25; Roger 4
O u e lle t t e and Mr.
C hilde r s.
5 I can just go on to clarif y, I don't 6
think any of those f ollow up Interrogatories 7
related to the area that Mr.
Tuckman is 8
responding to.
9 10 BY MR.
GUILD:
11 Q
Mr.
- Tuckman, have you had an opportunity 12 to e x a min e the Discovery Responses that we have been
(,
13 r ef e r rin g to?
14 Let me show you a copy dated March 25, 15 1983 (in dic a tin g); and is the document that Roger 16 O u e lle tt e. -
17 MR.
TU CKM AN:
- Yes, I'have r e vie w e d that.
18 Q
Mr.
Snow, I understood that you have not 19 f o rm e rly participated in preparing R e s pon s e s to 20 P a lm e tt o A llia n c e 's que s tio n s on the subject of 21 C ont e ntion 16 ; that is correct, is it not?
22 MR.
SNOW:
That is almo s t correct.
23 Q
Help n.e understand what your role hac 94 been.
25 M R.
SNOW:
I think t h at one of the EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. $7ENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Enow Direct to 1
i n d i v i d u c. l t.
who reports to me in a s up er vis o r y way 2
has contributed to the f ollo w up Interrogatories.
3 Q
V/ h o would that have been, sir ?
4 L. R.
S N O V/ :
That would be Jim T ho r n t o n.
5 C
Mr.
- Snow, h z. v e you had an opportunity to 6
examine the two Nesponses that I had reference to, 7
P alm ett o A llia nc e 's In t e r ro gato rie s on C ont e n tio n 16 ?
8 M R.
S N O V!:
Yes.
9 Q
For the Record, g e'n t l e m e n,
fi r s t Mr.
10 T uckman cnd Mr.
Snow, identif y your present p o s ition 11 with Duke Power C ompany; and if you would, briefly 12 s um maric e your professional tr aining and experience,
?,
13 please.
14 MR.
TUCKM AN:
My name is Nike Tuckman 15 I pr e s ently hold the position of Superintendent of 16 T e c hnic al Services Operator at the Catawba Nuc le a r 17 Power S t a tio n, a p o sition I've held for a pp r o xim a te ly 18 five and a -h alf years.
19 You asked about e duc atio n ?
20 Q
Give me your work experience prior to that 21
- job, kr.
Iuchman.
no MR.
TUCKMAN:
Prior to that po sition I
~~
93 worked with Duke for about four years as Lead
~
24 Licensing Engineer on the Oconee f a c ility.
25 Prior to that I spent three years at O 2. k EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow Direct 11 1
Rid ge, Tennessee, Ele ctric al Engineer for U nion
(
2 Carbide C o r po r atio n; six yeare of nuclear Navy 3
experience and prior to that, c olle g e.
4 I have a B a ch elo r's Degree in El e c t ric al 5
En gin e e rin g, G e o r gia Tech, and graduate work in 6
Electrical E n g i n e 'e r i n g from th e U niver sity of 7
8 Is that sufficient background?
9 Q
- Yes, Mr.
T u c k m a n','
if you would, g e ne r ally 10 describe what your dutie s are as S u p e r vi s o r of 11 T ec hnic al S e r vic e s at C a tawb a.
12 MR.
TU CKM AN:
I am responsible to the
(
13 plant M ana g er in providing t e c hnic al services to th e 14 f a cility.
I have four maj o r areas of concern:
15 Health Physic s, Chemistry including r a dio a c tiv e wa s te 16 tr e a tm e n t, P e rf o r m a nc e En gin e e rin g, including 17 Reactor E n gine e rin g, Licensing P roj e ct s, and 18 Emergency Pla nnin g.
19 Q
Mr.
- Snow, if you wo uld,
- sir, your full
- name, your present po sition with the c o m pany, and 20 21 s imila r ly, a brief resume of your professional 22 experience and training, sir.
23 MR.
SNOW:
My name le Lowell Snow, and 24 I am cu r r e n tly the Supe r viso r of the Nuclear Sub Gro up 25 in the M e ch a nical Nuclear Division of the Design EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow Diroct 12 1
E n gin e e rin g D e pa r tm ent.
2 I have held that p o s iti on for a p p r oxim a t ely 3
three years.
4 Q
Slow down and try that one more ti m e.
5 What ic~ your f ormal title ?
6 MR.
SNOW:
My f ormal title is D e sign 7
E n gin e e r II, that is Roman Num e ral II, 8
Give me that de s c ription of your position wo u5d.
9 one m o r'e time, if you jM R.
SNOW:
I s u p e r vi s e the Nuclear Sub 10 11
- Group, M e ch a nic al Nuclear Division, D e sign 12 Engineering D e pa r tm en t.
t 13 Q
A ll right, sir; and your previous p o s itio n s 14 with the c o m p a ny, sir ?
15 MR.
SNOW:
I've held this p o s itio n for 16 a p p ro xim a t e ly three years.
For the three years prior 17 to that tim e,
approximately, I was th e Supervisor of 18 the C atawba Su p po rt R e s traint D e si gn Group.
19 Five years orior to that tim e I supervised 20 a group that had r e s p o n s ibility for C atawba Fluid 21 S ys tem e Design on the nuclear side of the pla nt.
22 Four years prior to that I supervised a 23 group that was responsible for R a dia tio n i. n a l y c i s,
o4 which means e f flu e n t s and shielding analysis.
3 Prior to that I was in c olle c e.
I have a EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
T uc kma n, Snow-Di re ct 13 1
Bachelor of Science Degree from the U nive r sity of s
2 T enne c c ee in_ Nuclear Engineering; and I have a 3
M a s te r 's Degree f rom the U niv e r sity of South 4
C a r olin a in h.echanical E n gin e e rin g.
5 I have completed,
- rather, I have passed 6
p r e limi n a r y exam s for PhD candidacy at the 7
U nive r sity of South C a r olin a, although that degree is 8
not completed.
9 Q
W hat fi e l d is that?'
10 MR.
SNOW:
Mechanical En gin e e rin g.
11 Q
C on tinu e.
12 MR.
SNOW:
I'rn a R e giste re d Pr of e s sion al
(
13 E n gin e e r in North and South C a r olin a.
14 Q
M r.
S no w, if you would, b ri e fly d e s c rib e 15 your present duti e s and th e po sitio n you now hold 16 with the c om p a ny.
17 MR.
SNOW:
My group has five fun c tion s:
18 They are Fluid Fuels C riti c a lity, Radioactive 19 E f flu e n t s. -
20 I have r e s po n s ibility for the M e c ha nical 21 Nucle ar Design inte r f a ced with the SR A L Division.
22 O
W ould you explain that acronym ?
23 MR.
SNOW:
- Safety, R eview and Analysis 24
- Division, and Licensing I think is in th e r e; S af ety, 25 R e vi e w, A naly si s and Licensing.
. m....
. m oc,m.. m ~om n~.. - =.c~ y. - c - ~~
Tuckman.
Snow Direct 14 1
We have a G en e ric Engin e e ring f un c tion s
2 which includes the cleaning of the Oconee system 3
generators and the fifth area of r e s pon sibilit y is the 4
r eview and r e c o mm e nd a tion s fo r RADWASTE systems 5
modification s on all s tation s.
6 Q
Mr.
- Snow, if you would,
- sir, describe 7
how your group's r e s p on s ibiliti e s or personal 8
r e s p o n s ibilitie s relate to those of a Witne s s we 9
que s tion ed yesterday, Ms.
M' a r y Birch.
10 hi R.
M CG A R R Y:
I object to that 11 que s tion.
Mary Birch's subject was 12 m o nit o rin g; and M r.
Snow is here to t e s tify
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13 about the spent fu e l pool.
14 Any objection is based upon relevancy 15 There is no relevancy.
16 MR.
GUILD:
What I' m trying to under 17
- stand, I am not in t e ndin g to pursue a 18 monitoring subject with the Witne s s ; but 19 l' m t r yin g to unde r s tand where the RADWAS TI 20 r e s p o n s ibilitie s interfaced with those 21 described by h: r s.
Birch yesterday so I 99
~~
can understand the area of the Witne s e '
93 e xp e r ti s e and his ability to respond to 94 que s tion s.
25 MR.
M CG A R R Y:
I will s till maintain EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE, CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
Direct 15 Tuckman, Snow 1
the obj e ctio n, but I will not ask the 2
W itne s s to refuse to answer the qu e s tio n.
3 4
BY h R.
GUILD:
5 O
I understood f ro m Ms.
Birch's te stimony 6
she has r e s pons ibilitie s in the R A D WASTE.
How 7
would your r e s p on s ib iliti e s dif f e r and interrelate?
8 MR.
SNOW:
The r e s po n s ibility that hi a r y 9
has is associated with the P r6 du c tio n D e p a r tm e nt; 10 and the r e s p o n s ibility that I have is a s sociated with 11 the Design D e pa rtm e nt.
12 It is simply al on g tho s e line s that th e
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13 corporate organization is divide 6.
We don't do the t-14 same things.
15 Q
. G e n tle m en, to r ef r e sh your recollection 16 I want to direet your attention to the text of 17 C ontention 16.
18 I'm showing you Page Five of a do cume nt 19 that has p r e viously been referred to as A pplic a nt's 20 Responses to third set of Inter ro gato rie s a nd R eque s t 21 to Produce dated O c tob er 19, 1982 (indicating).
22 If you would take the time to
' xamin e e
23 thct sin gle-s p a c e d paragraph indicated on that page, f
24 have you b oth had a chance to see that before today, 25 Contention 16?
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STk NOTYPE REPORTING SERVlCE. CHARL83ETE. NORTM CAROUNA o
T u c kman, Snow Direct 16 1
M R.
SNOW:
- Yes, sir.
(
2 M R.
TU CKM AN:
- Yes, sir.
3 Q
G e ntleme n, what are the company's plans 4
with respect to the storage of no n-C at a wb a fuels at 5
the C atawba Nuclear Station in s p e nt fuel storage 6
f acilitie s ?
7 MR.
MCGARRY:
In respect to the 8
- plans, that is irrelevant to the C o nt e ntio n.
9 It focuses upon t h e' ' i m p a c t associated with 10 the storage of Oconee and M c G uir e spent 11 fuel at C a t a wb a.
12 MR.
GUILD:
I would ask the
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13 Witne s s e n to answer the qu e s tion s, 14 MR.
MCGARRY:
We will direct the 15 Witne s s e s not to an s w er th e qu e s tio n.
16 MR.
GUILD:
W e ll, Mr.
M cG a r r y, at 17 that point we may want to adjourn the 18 D e p o s ition.
We certainly think it is less 19 than fruitful to pursue further qu e s tionin g 20 of the Witnes s e s where you have o bj e ct ed 21 to the m.
22 You directed them not to respond to 23 the f u nd am e ntal' qu e s tion which forms the
~
24 basis for whether or not the A p pli c a nt can 25 safely perf o rm the fun c tion s.re p r e s e nte d EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVtCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROLINA r
17 I
by the man to whom the qu e s tio n is directe d, i
2 so I think perhaps we ought to at least 3
consider wh e th e r or not it ic f ruitf ul to 4
Pursue the m att e r.
5 Le t's take about a fiv e - min u t e recess, 6
if we c'a n.
7 (Whereupon, the D e p o s iti on was 8
adjourned for a b rief recess, after 9
wh ic h the f o ll'o wi n g proceedings were 10 had:)
11 12 MR.
M CG ARRY:
I would li k e to put
(
13 on the Record the A p plic an t 's po sitio n with 14 respect to the matter that caused the 15 D e p o s iti o n to be adjourned for the period of 16 time it has.
17 We have presented three Witn e s s e s.
18 and I would like the Record to r e fle c t that 19 Michael Green is now in attendance at the 20 D e p o s ition.
These Witne s s es are prepared 21 to discuss the heat lo a d c ritic al ity-and 22 fuel h a n dlin g.
23 It is our view these areas of te s timon y 24 are consistent wit h the B o a r d 's Order of 5
July 8,
- 1982, which excluded t ra n s p o rt a ti o n EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
18 1
and the Cascade Plan as an aspect of this
(
2 C o n t e ntion.
3 R a th e r, the Board in its July 8th ' 82 4
- Order, e p e cific ally lended the C o nt e n tion 5
to relate to the storage of r a dio a c tiv e fuel 6
a s s emblie s at other f a c ilitie s than Duke a nc, 7
C a t awba, the Cascade Plan othe r wis e known 8
as Du ke 's tr an s - s hip m e nt plan, was raised 9
with respect to Cohtention D E S 10 and 19.
10 That aspect was e x c lu d e d by the 11 B o a rd 's Order of February 25, 1983.
The 12 la st position that we would lik e the Record 13 to reflect is t h a t' the p o sitio n that we take 14 today is c on si s tent w it h the po sition we ha ve 15 taken in response to Interrogatories.
16 Palmetto A lli a n c e has had an oppor-17 tunity to file a Motion to Compel with 18 respect to those p o s ition s, and indeed was 1
t l
19 p r o vid e d the o p p o r tu nity by the Board in 20 its Order I b e li e v e of.D ec embe r let or 22n d l
21 of 1982.
22 P a lm etto A lli an c e has not to sought l
23 to compel A p plic an t's obj e c tion s,
which aro l r 24 c on si s te nt with the o bj ec tion we take t o da y.
25 That concludes the s t ate m e nt.
i EVEi,TN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING EERV8CE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROLINA m,m.
19 l
1 NR.
GLILD:
h' r.
- 14cGarry, of c our s e
(
2 we discussed off the R ecord it is Palmetto 3
A llia n c e 's intention to pursue the right of 4
the que s tion which was asked, su bj ect to 5
the then a v a il a bili t y of the Witne s s es.
6 For c l a r i t y,
- sir, would we stipulate 7
hi r.
G re en w o uld respond likewis e and you 8
would direct him not to answer?
9 MR.
hi C G A R R 'Y :
The A pplic ant's 10 o bj e c tion wo uld apply to Mr.
Green also, 11
- yes, kr.
Guild.
12 MR.
GUILD:
An understanding that 13 the suggested rules and authority that 14 govern the posture we find ourselves in in 15 the D e p o s itio n at this point, s eem s to give 16 us, Palmetto A lli a n c e,
the o ption of either 17 a dj o u r nin g the Deposition and seeking a 18 R ulin g on what we b e li e v e to be the correc t 19 po s ition we have asserted, or to continue 20 with the D e p o sitio n.
21 We have discussed some areas which 22 we b e li e ve the Witne s s e s are capable of 23 addressing, which I un de r e ta nd C oun s el 24 b e li e v e s are properly the s ubj e c t of 25 D e p o s iti o n q ue s tio n s,
and I will make an EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CNARLOTTE. NosFTH CAROUNA w
r-
4
- Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 20 1
effort to pursue those subjecte at this 2
point.
3 4
MICHAEL GREEN, 5
having-been fir s t duly sworn to tell the truth, was 6
e xa min e d and t e s t'1 fi e d as follows:
7 8
DIR EC T EX A MIN A TIO N 9
BY M R.
GUILD:
10 Q
Mr.
- Green, I have asked your two c o ll e a gu es
~
11 to go through this little r e gime nt, and I wo uld like 12 you to do the same:
State your present position with
(
13 the company and give us a brief re sume of previous 14 p o s iti on s held and your p r of e s sio nal and academic 15 background, sir.
16 MR.
GR EEN:
P r e s ently Su pe rvis in g De sign 17 E n gin e e r in the Civil Environmental Division of 18 Design E n gin e e rin g D e p a r tm e n t.
19 I have held po s ition s of E n gin e er,
A s sistan t a0 E n gin e e r, A e s ocia te A s sictant E n gin e e r,
Design 01
~
- Engineer, and S u p e r vis in g Design E n gin e e r.
22 Ihave been at Duke Power since June of
'7 2, 23 f o ll o win g my g r aduatio n f rom the U nive r s it y of 94 Tennessee where I received a E ach elor of Science 25 Degree in C i v il E n gine e r in g.
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
Direct 21
- Tuchmen, Snow, G reen 1
I am a Pr of e r elonal E n gin e e r in the State 2
of North C a r olin a, lic en s ed in N orth C a r oli n a.
I am 3
p r e s e ntly P r e sid en t-Ele c t of the North C a r olin a 4
Society of Civil En gine e r s.
5 Q
C on g r atulatio n s.
6 h1 R.
G Ii E E N :
Thank you.
7 Q
D e s c rib e your dutie s.
8 hi R.
GRE EN:
Supervising a group of 9
engineers responsible for the 'analy sis and design of 10 several building s and structures at C at awba,
as w ell 11 as various a s s ignm e nt s that are bad creek pump 12
(,
storage f a cilitie s.
13 Q
What b uildin g s do those include at C a ta wb a
?
14 hi R.
GREEN:
A uxilia ry b uildin g s,
spent 15 fuel pool, new fuel build in g,
outside doghouses, 16 die s el generator b ui ldin g s.
17 Q
M r.
- Green, I b e li e v e Counsel etipulated 18 that you participated in responding to several 19 dis c o ver y requests, Interrogatories, and R e que s t s for 90 Production cerved on Duke by Palmetto with respect 21 to our Contention 16 ?
22 MR.
GREEN:
- Yes, sir.
23 Q
/. s I did with your c olle a gue s, let me show 24 you Page Five of the October 18 document that is a 25 company document and ask you to examine the text of EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
Tuckman.
Snow.
Green Direct 22 1
the C ontention reproduced th e r e..
2 You p r e viou sly are f amiliar with that 3
C onte ntion ?
4 MR.
GR EEN:
- Yes, sir.
5 Q
G entle m e n, M r.
- Green, since we have thr e e 6
p e o ple and we a r e' taping this D e po sition, l'f th'e' 7
qu e s ti on is not d i r e' e t e d s p e cific ally at you and you 8
want to com m e nt, please preface your comments with 9
your name.
10 MR.
MCGARRY:
For c on sis te nc y's 11
- sake, you asked the previous Witne s s e s if 12 they had provided a f fid a vit s in R es pons e 13 to the Interrogatories; and we w oul d stipu-14 late that Mr.
Green p r o vid e d an af fid a vit 15 with respect to the Int e r ro ga to rie s,
the 16 fi r s t set of Inte rr o gato rie s, - no t the f ollo w up set of Int e r r o g at o rie s dated October 18, 17 18 1982.
19 IV. R.
GUILD:
Thank you, N r.
McGarr y.
20 21 BY MR.
GUILD:
22 O
G e ntlem e n,
P e. l m ett o I.111 a n c e is inte re s t ed 23 in the abilit y of Duke Power to accure it can s a f ely 24 store spent fuels fram not only the C t a vc b a pla nt but 25 f rom its other o pe r atin g f a cilitie s at C at awba.
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERvtCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA d
y
-,-n-
Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 23 1
C oun s el has l'n e t r u c t e d you to not respond 2
to an e a rlie r qu e s tio n of min e c onc e r nin g the plan 3
for which the fuel storage f a cility a nd a s e c ciate d 4
procedures are designed.
5 I would like to ask you if you could tell me 6
what the design a' su m ption s are as you understand a
7 which are the bases for the design and procedures 8
for storage of non-Catawba fuele at the C a t awb a spent 9
fuel pools.
10 MR.
SNOW:
Those a s sum ption s are li s t e d 11 in the FSAR S e c tio n 9.1 12 Q
- Now, is it clear, kr.
- Snow, that those i
13 a s sum ptions are not the same as were lis t e d in the 14 p r e limin a r y safety analysis for the s tatio n FS A R ~?
15 MR.
SNOW:
There are a d ditio na l a s sum pti ons 16 in the FSAR.
17 Q
If you can,
- sir, would you or the other 18 g e ntle m en, as appropriate, refer to that s e c tio n of 19 the FSAR 9.1?
20 Do you hrve a reference.
'M r.
- Snow, for 21 the a e r u m ption, where they can be found in the FSAR
?
22 M R.
SNOW:
I would have to state that the 23 whole s e c tio n is a p p l i c a. b l e as containing the 24 a s s um ptio ns.
They are nume rou s.
3 Q
W ell, le t's start s o m e plac e, and how about EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SEnvlCE. CNARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA a
T u c k rn a n,
- Snow, G re en Direct 24 1
you helping me understand what a s s u m p tion s u nd e rlin e 2
the f u el s to ra ge plans of the company at C a t a wb a.
3 MR.
SNOW:
Can you restate your que s tio n, 4
pleas e ?
5 Q
L e t 's back up, if we can, and ree if we 6
can focus:
Was the C a t a wb a fuel s to ra ge f a cility, s 7
spent fu el storage f a cility, originally designed to 8
store non-C atawba fu els ?
9 MR.
SNOW:
It w a 's' not.
10 Q
Vl e were lo o ki n g for a document r e fle c tin g 11 the original design.
Would that document be the 12 ISAR p r elimin a r y safety analysis report for the
\\
13 s tation ?
14 14 R.
SNOW:
Yes.
15 Q
Without holding you to it, and we can go to 16 the document if necessary; but what were the baeic l
d es ign a s s um ptions as contained in the original d esig a 17 18 f o i-the f a cility r e fle c t e d in the FSAR?
19 MR.
M CG A RR Y:
I would object to thi s
20 li n e of inquiry in that the initial design of f
at j
Catawba is irrelevant to the present design L
22 of the Catawba spent fuel pool.
l 23 H o ve e v e r,
'I will not in s t r uc t the 24 W it ne s s e s not to answer the qu e r tio n.
25 EVELYN BERG &R ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA I
T uckm an,
- Snow, Green Direct 25 1-DY h' R.
G UILD:
,(
2 Q
W ould you try to anrwer the qu e s tion ?
3 MR.
SNOW:
I d on't think I can; it would 4
take a great deal of effort to id e ntif y individual 5
points.
6 Y ou would have to do it on a lin e by line 7
basis.
8 Q
L e t 's f o llow this way:
As you stated, the 9
fi n a l safety analysis report t'h a t is submitted in 10 support of your a p pli c a ti o n for an operating lic en s e 11 for the C a t a% b a station r e fle c t s the current design 12 a s s um ption s for spent fuel storage at the f acility; yer ?
(
13 MR.
SNOW:
Yes.
14 Q
A nd tho s e a s s um ption s include t 5t e storage 15 of n on - C a t a wba fuels ?
16 MR.
SNOW:
T h a t's correct.
17 Q
My in te r e s t, gentlemen, i s in focusing on 18 the design dif f e re n c e s and th e differences in 19 a s sumption s that have been adopted between the two 20 designs r e fle c t e d by those documents; and the e p e cific 21 means b y whic h the A p pli c a nt intends to demonstrate 22 that it can safely secommodate those d iff e r e n t 23 a s s u m p t i o n s..
I 24 Can you help direct my attention to the 25 e81 8n changes?
l EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERylCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA a
,w
,,,, - - - - + - - - -
7 Tuckman.
Snow.
G reen Direct 26 1
MR.
SNOW:
The design changes would agai n
2 be nume rou s ; but they would be associated with 3
phases that id e ntif y h! c C u i r e.
or Oconee fuel.
4 MR.
MCG ARR Y:
I would lik e to put 5
another ob s e rvation on the R ec o rd:
- First, 6
it is th e nature of an obj e c tion, a
7 c o nti nuin g obj e ction with respect to any 8
discussions of the original design spent 9
fuel pool.
10 I will not continue to poee the 11 o bj e c tio n; it will r e m a in as a co ntinuin g 12 obj e c tion.
/
13 I think what my o b s e r va ti on is is as 14 f ollow s :
I think what was of interest here 15 is the underlying a s s umption c ritic ality.
16 heat load and structural analysis, and 17 perhaps that should be the appropriate area.
18 of inquiry.
19 MR.
GUILD:
Thank you.
20 21 BY h! R.
GUILD:
22 Q
h* hat are th e most im p o rta nt changes in 23 a s s um ption s in your j u d g m e nt and, therefore, changes 24 in design from the original fuel pool de sign and 25 storage plans to the p re s e nt fuel pool design and EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMADILOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
Direct 27 T uc kman,
- Snow, Green 1
s tor a g e plan?
\\.
2 MR.
MCGARRY:
A g ai n, to be helpful, 3
it may be simple, k r.
- Snow, if any of the 4
three Witne s s e s have any ob s e rvation s with 5
respect to that inquiry. I think you should 6
r e s p o n d'.
7 MR.
TUCKMAN:
Although I'm not a 8
member of the Design En gin e e rin g Force, o p e rit o r --
9 but rather an 10 11 BY MR.
G U I'L D :
12 Q
.Y o u are Mr.
Tuckman?
13 MR.
TU CKM AN:
I'm sorry.
I see very 14 few changes in the actual design of the pool to 15 a ccommod ate other than C atawba 'fu el.
l 16 Q
M r.
Tuckman or other gentlemen, how does 17 the c a pa city of the fuel as originally designed compar e 18 to the capacity as now s truc tur ed ?
19 M R.
SNOW:
The capacity was increased.
20 Q
Can you quantify the increase?
21 M R.
SNOW:
I b elie ve there are now 1,418 22 storage lo c ati on s.
23 Q
Does th at represent passage of 1,418 24 a s s e mblie s ?
i 25 MR.
SNOW:
Excu se me, if that is correct EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROLINA a
m
_,-m._
- Tuckman, Snow, G reen Direct 28 1
- yes, 9.1-4, S e e tio n 9. 1. 2. 2. 2,
"F a cility De a c ription.
's 2
Q That is per unit a s s e mbly, per unit ?
3 MR.
SNOW:
- Yes, sir.
4 Q
What was the original design capacity for 5
the pools?
6 M R, SNOW:
In th e order of 600.
7 Q
W ould you accept the original design was 8
662?
9 MR.
GR EEN:
T h a t' ' i s a p pr oxim a t ely right.
10 Q
G entle m en, from a design engineering stand 11
- point, and I guess appropriately M r.
G re en and Mr.
12
(,
- Snow, what is th e si gnific a n c e of more than d ou b lin g 13 the design capacity of the pools?
14 MR.
SNOW:
An analysis was performed fox 15 the co olin g system that demonstrates the ability of 16 the c o oli n g system to accommodate the heat load.
17 Q
I understand that, and we do want to talk 18 about that; but let's talk in te rm s of general 19 principles fir s t and then get to s p ecific s.
20 Can we ac ce pt that the increase in capacity 21 design c a p a c it y, represents.a si g ni fic a nt design 22 change in the f a cilit y ?
23 M R.
SNOW:
N o, s i r ; I would not characteri ze 24 it that way.
95 Q
What is the si g nific a nc e, in eithe r EVELYN E ERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA o
,,-w-c-
y
Tuckmon, Snow, Groon Diroct 29 1
qualitative or quantitative terms, o f doublin g the i
2 capacity of the spent fuel storage f acility ?
3 MR.
SNOW:
It is a larger volum e.
4 Q
What is the significance of that larger 5
v o lu m e, g e n tle m e n, to the ability of the company to 6
s af ely conduct storage a ctivitie s that it ceased to 7
conduct at the f acility ?
8 MR.
SNOW:
It has no s ignific an c e.
9 Q
Do th e other g e n t l e'm e n agree with that t'
10 answer?
11 MR.
T U CKM A N:
I agree.
12 M R.
GREEN:
I agree, too.
(
13 Q
Is the heat load to be expected at th e 14 f acility increased over its original design c a p a cit y ?
15 MR.
SNOW:
C a p ability d the c o olin g 16 s ys tem is such that it would accommodate the heat 17 load as evaluated.
18 Q
I appreciate your position about th at,
- sir, 19 but let me ask the qu e s tion one more tim e:
The 20 que s tion is, is the heat load increased as a r e sult 21 of the increased s tora ge capacity of the fa cility ?
22 MR.
SNOW:
T hat is an a s s umption 23 d e p end e nt--t h e re are a s s u m p tio n s for which that w oul<i 24 be a correct s t at eme nt, and there are as sumptions fo r
25 which that would not'be a correct s ta te m ent.
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow, Groon Direct 30 1
Q How about'giving me r a mple s of the varyin g 2
a s s um ptions which would produce tho s e two r e s ult s.
3 b: R.
SNOW:
The age of the fuel contained 4
in the pool.
5 Q
How about giving me the a s s umption,
- sir, 6
that would give me the dif f e r e n t r e s ult.
Do you 7
f oll o w me?
8 MR.
SNOW:
No, I don't.
c a'n' be clearer:
Under 9
Q L et 's see if we 10 some sets of a s sumption s just th e heat load would 11 not be increased.
12 Under some sets of as sumptions the heat
(
13 load would be increased.
14 M R.
SNOW:
There was only one aging 15 for the fuel.
16 Q
What aging for the variable would produce 17 diff erent re sult s ?
18 hi R.
SNOW:
I c an't respond to the exact 19 value.
It is simply that fuel decays over time, and 8
s ho r te r decay periods have higher decay heat values 21 and lo n g e r decay p e rio d s o f lower decay v a lu e s.
22 Q
Can we agree, h: r.
- Snow, that spent fuels 23 from other f acilitic s of certain ages, and therefor e 24 certain decay values, could increase the heat load at the 25 C at awb a pool beyond the original design bases of the amv..e.. noci u. ra orre na ontmo. vies. c
.uma. ont ca ou.
._=
- Tuckmon, Snow, G reon Diroet 31 1
f a cility ?
2 MR.
SNOW:
I'm not sure that I understand 3
what you me an by " design bases."
4 Q
I' m not t ryi n g to ask you trichy qu e s tion s, 5
g e n tle m e n.
If you understand the dr if t of the que s tion.
6 help me.
7 If it is a te rm that you are not f amilia r 8
with--
9 N R.
SNOW:
I'm c'1'e a r in the term, but the.
10 way I use it, I'm not sure how you use it.
11 Q
Wis y don't you answer the qu e s tie n with the 12 caveat that you think is necessary for complete under L
13 standing on my part of your answer?
14 h1 R.
SNOW:
The capacity of the spent fuel 15 c o o lin g system is adequate to accommodate the heat 16 load f rom the a s sum ed fuel in the pool?
17 Q
- Yes, sir.
18 M R.
SNOW:
That capacity is demonstrated 19 in the FSAR.
20 g
Leg e s fo cu s on the two components of that 21 answer.
- First, let's talk about the a s sumed 22 inve nt orie s; and secondly, I would like to keep in 23
- mind, I would like to put your att e ntio n to the c o olin g 24 s ys te m design that you made reference to as to the 25 fi r s t point.
EVELYN SERGEst ASSOCIATES. STFNOTYPE REPOfff1NG SENVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA v-
.-,w
,--v m
.-w
Tuckman, Snow, Groon Direct 32 1
Give me a reference a nd explain to me the t.
2 a s s umed inventory for which the pool is now designed 3
MR.
SNOW:
I b e li e v e that that is in 4
S e c tio n 9. 1. 3,
and the pool is a s sume d to be completed, 5
loaded with fu el.
6 Q
By c o m'p l e t e loading, do you mean that 7
every a vaila bl e storage location would be taken up 8
with spent fuel?
9 MR.
SNOW:
Yes.
10 Q
Without fuel core reserve?
~
11 MR.
SNOW:
That as sumed that the fu e l cor e 12 dis c ha r g e is in place in the pool.
(
13 Q
Without any storage locations occupied by 14 other thnn spent fuel a s e emblie s ?
15 MR.
SNOW:
That'e correct.
16 Q
Now then, what is the age of the fuel that 17 is assumed to represent that invento ry ?
18 MR.
SNOW:
The age varies f r om-- r ef e r 1
19 to S e cti on 9.1. 3.1.1.1.
N Q
- Yes, sir.
21 hi R.
SNOW:
The values are given in the two p :. r a g r a p h e numb er ed one and two for two dif f e r e n't 22 23
- caces, and I would direct your a t t e n tio n to the last 24 sentence in the recond paragraph,
"... with the 25 r emaind e r of the pool fill e d with fuel from p r e vio u s EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING SERvlCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow, Groon Direct 33
(.
1 yearly r e f ue lin g s. "
2 C
A ll right, sir; now the inventory there is 3
d e s c rib e d in terms of the heat load of the s p ecific 4
a s s emblie s; is it not?
5 MR.
SNOW:
Yes.
6 Q
Help me understand the translation of that 7
heat load de s c ription into a de r c ription for each of 8
the a s s e m bli e s.
Do you understand the qu e s tion ?
9 h1 R.
SNOW:
No, I'm not sure what you 10 want.
11 Q
haw old is the fuel that i s described in 12 those two paragraphs?
(
13 MR.
SNOW:
I can read the paragraph on 14 the R ecord if you would li k e.
15 Q
No, I see the paragraphs.
16 M R.
SNOW:
It is a third core rated seven 17
- days, and two fuel c ycle s eradiated, and those are th e
18 ages of the fuel.
19 Q
How old le.the fuel whic h will be stored at 20 Catawba station from Oconee and M cGuire ?
21 M R.
SNOW:
I don't have any id e a about 22 what that date would be.
23 Q
Who would k n o vi ?
A 24 MR.
M CGARR Y:
I'm sorry, did you 25 say "date"?
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCLATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA o
T u c k m t-n,
- Snow, Green Direct 34 1
MR.
SNOW:
Yes.
i 2
3 BY L'. R.
GUILD:
4 Q
How long was tb e fuel stored in C a ta wb a 5
fu el storage as c o mpar ed to hf c G u i r e ?
6 M R.
SNOW:
I have no idea what that would 7
b e.
8 Q
Any of you gentlemen know the answer to 9
the que stion ?
10 MR.
TUCKMAN:
We don't know that we wil l
~
11 rtore th e f u el f rom Oconee or L' c G u i r e.
If you care 12 to look at the o pe ratin g records and if s o m e thin g like s
13 that o ccurred you could see how old th e fuel wo ul d be 14 MR.
MCGARRY:
Perhaps I can make 15 a no the r ob s e rvation.
What was the 16 a c eumption that was u tili z e d by Duke with 17 respect to Oconee and L. c G ui r e fuel stored
%m 18 at C atawb a ?
19 MR.
SNOW:
I'm sorry, the a s r ump tio n,
20 for the ba sis of this e valu a tion, my 21 r e c olle c tion is that it w ould be O c o n e e 's 22 discharge fuel, 270 days decayed.
23
~
24 BY MR.
G UI LD:
25 Q
How about L' c G u i r e fuele?
Mr.
- Snow, mayb e
.m,~.......soci ns. sn~ones airo ri~o sa men. ca*= tons. ao= c^aoua^
Diroct 35
- Tuckman, Snow, Greon 1
I can refresh your r ec olle c tio n.
I have a letter 2
p r e viou s ly i de n tifi e d f rom the company to the 3
C ommis sio n, response to que s tion s by Eleanor 4
Adensam (in dic a tin g).
5 Does that contain the inf o r m ati o n you are 6
talking about?
7 MR.
SNOW:
I don't think, I' m n ot sure tha t 8
it does.
9 Q
Take a look and s e' e.
10 hi R.
SNOW:
T hi s appears to be a c ommit-11 ment in the Response on fuel his to ry that the Oconee 12 and M c G ui r e fuels would have undergone at least fiv e 13 years of c o o lin g,
which means five years of decay.
14 Q
Five years is longer than 270 days, is it 15 not?
16 h1 R.
SNOW:
- Yes, it is.
17 Q
Did you understand that to be a c om mitme n I8 by Duke Power C o m pa n y.
I9 h; R.
SNOW:
As I read it, it is a commit-20 ment.
hi a yb e I'm not the right one to say that.
21 hc R.
MCGARRY:
That is not a c ommi t-OO ment of Duke Power.
23 24 BY h; R.
G UILD:
25 Q
So it is a s tipula ti on that the a p plic a tion EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORT 1NO SERVfCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA 0
Diroct 36
- Tuckman, Snow, Green 1
is for storage of fuel f rom other f a cilitie s decayed 2
at least five years?
3 MR.
M CG ARR Y:
T h a t 's correct.
4 consistent wit h the A p ril,
- 1982, le tte r ;
5 and the reason I say that, it make s 6
reference to burnt-up rates, which translat e 7
to a p p r oxima t ely five years.
8 9
BY M R.
GUILD:
10 Q
A nd so when you were saying 270 days deca y
~
11 for the Oconee fuels, Mr.
- Snow, was there another 12 source you were referring to, or was that an error?
N R.
SNOW:
Your original que s tion is what 13 14 were th e a s sump tion s.
15 Q
- Fine, so the a s sumed decay age of the f u el 16 for purposes of safaty analysis contained at Section 17 9.1.3.1 for Oconee fucis was 270 days decay?
18 MR.
SNOW:
For Oconee.
19 Q
W ha t would be comparable for Mc Guire ?
20 MR.
SNOW:
W e ll, this did not help any.
21 MR.
GUILD:
Off the R ec o rd.
22 (Discussion off the R e c o rd. )
23 24 MR.
MCGARRY:
It looks like it is 25
- 270, but we will have that confirmed and EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow, Grcon Direct 37 1
get it for you.
7 t
2 3
BY MR.
GUILD:
4 Q
Mr.
- Snow, I understand we are trying to g et 5
that s p e cific value for the hc c G u i r e field.
6 MR.
SNOW:
It appears to be the s a m e.
7 Q
If it was, it would be 270 days as w e ll ?
8 MR.
SNOW:
Yes.
9 O
T hank you.
T u r n. ' 'i f you would, in the 10 FSA R, g entl em en, if you would to 9.1-5 A ; and does 11 that and the p r e vi ou s page r efle c t design a s s umptions 12 underlying the present safety analysis for the C at awb a 13 fuel?
14 MR.
SNOW:
These are design a s sumption s.
15 Q
W ou ld you read for th e Record the item on 16 Page 9.1-5A, It e m B?
17 MR.
SNOW:
Item B is the capacity to cool 18 the maximum am ount of spent fuel based on an Oconee 19 M cGuir e, C a tawb a and Cascade, of fuel with the highc at 20 heat load possible.
21 "See S e c tio n 9.1. 2. 4. "
22 Q
Does that reference d e fin e the term "highe nt 23 heat loa d po s sible, " and explain what the values are; i,
24 and if so--
l 25
- h. R.
SNOW:
S ec ti on 9. 1. 2. 4 spenks to the EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
T uc kma n,
- Snow, Green Direct 38 1
a r r a n g e rc. b n t and the c ritic ality, and the accident i
2 a na ly s i s of the spent fuel storage of Oconee and 3
McGuire fuel.
4 Q
A ll right, sir; it does not answer the 5
q ue s ti o n for the value of the high e st heat load possib Le; 6
and if it doesn't, what is your und e r s t an din g of the 7
value for that term ?
8 MR.
SNOW:
That value is pre s ente d in 9
S ec tio n 9.1,3, Page 9.1-10.
10 Q
A ll right, sir--
hb.
S N O W :
Ite m Two.
11 12 Q
What is the basis for the characterization 13 of those values as r ep r e s e nting the highest heat load 14 po s sible ?
15 M R.
SNOW:
That is based on the a s sumpti an 16 presented in the 1976 Heat Load Analysis p r eviou s ly 17 referred to.
18 Q
A side from th a t document serving as the I
19 basis for those a s sumption s, is there an operational 20 a s s um ptio n that und e rlie s that value as r e p r e e e nta tive l
21 of the highest heat load po s sible ?
l 22 l
M R.
SNOW:
Those are presented, those l
23 a s s umptio n s are also presented that refer to the l
24 o p e r a tio na l c o n s tr aint s.
25 Q
Presented where, I'm sorry?
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTi. NORTH CAROUMA
Direct 39
- Tuckmen, Snow, Green 1
MR.
SNOW:
In the Heat Load Analysis as 2
a s s umption s.
3 Q
Help me then; let's refer to th at d ocum en t.
4 Does Counsel have another copy?
5 MR.
MCGARRY:
We have c on fi r m e d 6
the M cGuir e number; it is 270.
7 8
BY MR.
GUILD:
9 Q
Do you have that i n'f o r m a t i o n ?
10 MR.
SNOW:
Your qu e s tion was again--
11 Q
A gain, what is the ope rational ba eis for 12 the valu e s assigned that have been described as the 13 highest heat load'possible?
14 MR.
SNOW:
Do you mean by that, how do 15 you get there?
16 Q
- Yes, sir.
17 MR.
SNOW:
W e ll,
- again, that is o u t lin e d 18 in the FSAR S e c tion, and in this document there is 19 a s s um ed full core discharge, which requires a an 20 certain amount of t i n. e to execute the discharge.
21 Q
A ll right, sir; take one step at a tim e so 22 I can f ollow you.
9.1-10, Item 2,
the 11 days' va lu e, 23 does that represent the time it takes to discharge 24 full core?
25 MR.
SNOW:
No, the 11 days is eradiation EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTWG SERVICE, CHARLOTTE NORTH CAROUNA
\\
- Tuckman, Snow. Groen Direct 40 1
ti me.
The seven days represents the transfer time.
2 Q
What is the basis for the 11 da y value ?
3 My qu e s ti on is what is the basis for the 11 day va lu e "
4 M R.
SNOW:
That is the peak value for a 5
full core discharge a s s umption.
6 Q
I don't' unde r s tand; can you e xplain ?
7 M R.
SNOW:
By peak, I mean anythin g less 8
than that would r e sult in a lower decay heat va lu e ;
9 and anything greater than t h a't' would re sult in a lower 10 decay heat value u nit s,
the m a xi mu m value.
11 Q
E even days represents the m aximum heat 12 v alu e for that core?
/
\\
^
13 M R.
SNOW:
- Yes, under these conditions.
14 Q
A ll right, what is the basis for the 15 a s sumptio n that one-third of the core would be 16 e radiate d two f u ll cycles?
17 MR.
SNOW:
The basis for the a s sumption 18 is an as sumed annual one-third core r e fu elin g replace l
19 m e n t.
l l
20 Q
Is that a realistic a s s um p tio n ?
21 M R.
SNOW:
It is approximately correct.
22 Q
Is it a cons ervative a s sum ption ?
23 M R.
SNOW:
Yes.
1 24 Q
The seven day value there again represents 25 the transfer time ?
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CNARLOWE. NORTN CAROLINA
Tuckmnr. Snow.
Gra n nivore
/1 1
MR.
SNOW:
Yes.
2 O
What is the basis for th e a s s ump tion that 3
o ne -thir d of the core will be fully e r a dia te d ?
4 h; R.
SNOW:
That f o llo w s from the s a me 5
annual o n e -t hi r d cycle.
6 O
How is th e term " fully eradiated" intended?
7 MR.
SNOW:
It means that the amount of 8
time that th e fuel ha s been e r a di at e d is indistinguisha ble 9 f r om an infinite eradiation t i nk e.
10 Q
What is the t i rr. e value that is associated II with full e r adiation ?
12 MR.
SNOW:
One c ycl e.
13 Q
Of how much t i n-e dur ation ?
14 MR.
SNOW:
One full cycle.
15 Q
A nnua l ?
16 MR.
SNOW:
One year minus the amount of 17
- i m e necessary to re fu el.
I8 Q
One calendar year?
19 MR.
SNOW:
Yes.
20 Q
Min u s seven days?
91
~
MR, SNOW:
Seven days.
MR.
TU CKM A N:
This is Mike T u c k m a r.
93
~
to slip in that I d on 't think we are talking 24 a calendar year; we are ta l kin g about the 95
~
fu el burn-u n in the evela.
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHAMLOTTE. NORTM CAftOUNA
- Tuckman, Snow.
Groon Direct 42 1
If you run it significantly lower than 2
100 percent power, that would last longer 3
than a year.
But I don't believe it would have any 4
5 eff e ct on the r e sult.
6 MR.
SNOW:
By a s s umin g an annual 7
cycle, you m axi mi z e the value.
8 9
BY M R.
GUILD:
10 Q
So therefore it would produce a co n s e r va tive 11 analysis?
12 M R.
SNOW:
Surely.
13 Q
For c om p a r ative purposes in actual o p e r ati on 14 p ra c tic e if the cycle is not a calendar year, what is 15 the a p p r oxim atio n ?
16 MR.
TU C KMAN:
It depends on how the 17 fuel cycle is designed.
The initial cycle will run a 18 little longer.
19 Succeeding cycles would be in the neighbor 20 hood of 300 f ull-p o w er ed days.
21 Q
Does the ac tu al power level of the unit 22 d ete rmine the length of the actual cycle to be 23 experienced ?
24 MR.
- Yes, it does.
25 Q
Do you have a more r e ali s tic e s timate of eveu~...o==. sociar...r ~orne awo ri~o s.vica. cua wrre. ~om e nou=4
Tuckman, Snow, Groon Direct 43 I
the a ctu al c ycle length to be experienced at the C a t a vcba f
2 s tation ?
3 MR.
TU CKM AN:
It would depend upon what 4
c ap acity factor you care to a s sume.
5 Q
I' m a s king you about your plant, what 6
c ap acity factor do you b e li e v e is reasonable, r e a li s ti c
7 to a s sum e, for this purpose?
8 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Seventy percent.
9 Q
Wha t c a pa city f a c t o'r is r e ali s tic for the 10 O conec and M c G uir e field s ?
11 MR.
TUCKM AN:
I'm not sure we have a 12 r ep r e s entative s ample for M c G uir e right now because 13 I would expect that they would wind up with a capacit y
I4 factor of 70 percent or greater.
15 The fir s t cycle has not generated that 70 16 percent c a p a city factor.
Q What capacity factor has it generated ?
18 M R.
TU CKM AN:
I don't know the number 19 e xa c tly, but it is c o methin g less than 50 percent 20 because of the generator modific a tion s at Oconee.
21 You could find, hi s t o r ic a lly in th e NRC, 22 M on thly O p e r a tin g Status Reports in the neighborhood 23 of 60-65 percent, I would guesn.
60 percent.
24 Q
What is the basis th e n, I'm still r ef e r rin g 25 to Ite m Number Two, Mr.
- Snow, the beds for th e fi v e EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES, STENOTYPE REPOhTING SERV'CE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROLINA 6
- Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 44 I
day decay v alu e a s sumed ?
2 MR.
SNOW:
I believe th at we need to 3
clarify th( previous s t at em ent.
The 25 day decay t i rr e 4
ic the normal r e fu elin g t i n. e which includes the 7 5
day transfer of the fuel for discharge plu s the 11 day 6
eradiation time, whi ch means that it is 7 days to 7
- transfer, refuel 1/3 of the core, 11 days e r a d ia tion, 8
another 7 days to defuel the core.
9 I b e li e v e that addsup to 25.
10 Q
M r.
- Snow, I c ould n' t add all that to be 25, 11 but that is your understanding?
12
(,
MR.
SNOW:
Seven and seven is fourteen 13..
a ri d eleven and fourteen is tw e nty - fi v e.
14 Q
Vi h e r e did the 11 days of e r a dia ti on time.
15 how does that contribute to decay to the 25 day decay --
16 I' m n ot f ollowin g you?
17 l
MR.
SNOW:
- Okay, the sequence of events 18 described here is that f o ll o win g a r e fu e lin g cycle.
l l
19 im m e dia t e ly f ollo win g a r e f u eli n g cycle th e full core 20 ie c r e dia t e d for 11 days, at which tim e,
for reasons 21 unknown but a s sumed that the fuel full core would
(
l l
22 have to be c om ple tely discharged to the spent fuel 23 pool.
24 So the sequence is seven days plus eleven 25 daye plu s seven days, thus maximizing the amount of l
l cvatvN a RosR associaTrs. sTsNoTvPs REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NoRTM CAROUNA l
L
Tuc kman, Snow, Groon Direct 45 I
decay heat in the fuel pool.
2 Q
A ll right, thank you.
Now how is fu el 3
inventory to be stored at the Catawba s ta tion f r om 4
Oconee and M cGuir e to be tr an s por te d, tr a n s s hi pp e d, 5
to the Catawba e tation ?
6 MR.
MCGARRY:
I'm sorry, la the 7
que s tion how it is going to be tr an a s hip p ed
?
8 MR.
GUILD:
Yes.
9 MR.
M C G A R R 'Y :
I would object to tha t
10 que s tion.
11 MR.
GUILD:
Please answer the 12 qu e s ti on.
f t
13 MR.
MCGARRY:
Can we have a minut e
14 here to r e fle c t on the obj e ctio n ?
15 MR.
GUILD:
Sure.
16 MR.
MCGARRY:
To determine whethe r 17 or not we will instruct th e Witne s s not to 18 answer is a s en s itive qu e s tio n to e s t ablis h 19 that the spent fuel for Oconee and M cG uir e 20 will be transshipped in a cask, and there 21 is a sense of qu e s tionin g to d ete r mine how 22 that cask is being handled once it gets to 23
'Catawba.
(
24 MR.
GUILD:
Yes.
25 MR.
M CG A RR Y:
Then we would not EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE, CHARLOTTE. NORTM CA ROUNA
Direct 46 T u c km an.
- Snow, G ro en
\\,
1 instruct the W it n e s s not to answer, so the 2
Wit ne s s m s:. y c on tinu e answering the qu e s tio n.
3 MR.
TUCKM AN:
Do you wa nt me to 4
try ?
5 6
BY MR.
GUILD:
7 Q
- Sure, please do.
8 M R.
TU CKM AN:
If the decision is made to 9
transship fuel from Oconee t o' M c G uir e-- e xc u s e me--
10 from Oconce to M c Guir e or h' c G u i r e to C atawba, it 11 will be done in a spent fuel cask s i mil a r to the type 12 being u t iliz e d f rom Oconee to M c Guire now.
13 Q
How many a s s emblie s does that cask or 14 would th e cask that would be used c ont ain ?
15 MR.
TU CKM AN:
The cask used now contairts 16 one a s s e mbly.
17 Q
Does Duke have any plans for utili zin g a 18 cack or cesks that w o u ld c o n t a in m or e than one as s em big 19 MR.
TU CKM AN:
I don't know.
20 Q
Let me direct your att entio n to the A p ril 2 21 to82, l e tt e r to the Commis sion (indienting).
Do you 22 have a copy of that available to you?
23 On the beeis of th e as sumptio n that you 24 would use the cask you are u tili zin g now, and that 25 that would c on tain one a s s embly, how m a ny individual EWELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAmouseA
Tuckman.
Enow.
Green Direct 47
+
1 t hip m ent s are to be received at the C a t a wb a station 2
reflective of the storage plan that is represented.in 3
the FSAR7 4
M R.
M CG A RR Y:
We would objeet to 5
that que stion.
We view that as d e ali n g wit h 6
the Cascade issue, and we would direct the 7
Witne s s not to a ns we r that question.
8 MR.
GUILD:
C ouns el, our intention 9
w o uld be to direct 't h e Witn e s s ' a ttention tc 10 the cask handling that w ould be involved in 11 th e ac tivitie s under a p plic a tio n; and in 12 order to dc so, I want to have for the Rec ord 13 some reflection of the value fo r the number I4 of h a n dlin g events anticipa te d.
15 MR.
MCGARRY:
We would s tipulate 16 there would be more h an dlin g s than there II would have been at C a tawb a by virtue of 18 tr a n s p o r ta tio n of Oconee and M c Gui r e fuel 19 to C a tawb a.
20 MR.
G UI L D :
- Yes, I think that is cle ar, 21 but the qu e s tio n la what value fo r th e 22 number to be received, and I don't think 23 there is a dispute as to value.
24 I do b elie v e it is r e t e vant and it is 95 the basia for qu es tions about cask h a nd lin g
~
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA l
Direct 48 Tuckman, Snow, Green 1
MR.
M CG ARR Y:
A gain, our p o s ition l a 2
clear.
We oppose any inquiry into C a s cadin g, 3
but to d e t e r min e whether or not there were 4
underlying basis in this analysis, that assumes 5
a concern ab out the numbe r of c a sk-g'me.
6 h'a n d li n g s,
and I think that is fair a
7 8
BY MR.
GUILD:
~
9 Q
L e t 's look at Qu e s tion Number Three, in 10 the A pril '82 le tt e r, do you have that in front of you ?
11 Does that explain the numb e r of s hip me nt s anticipated 12 r eflec tive of the non-C atawb a fuel storage a c tivity ?
13 A nd if so, what value is that?
14 MR.
MCGARRY:
I think w e, ought to 15 cla rif y the Record here.
I think the 16 paragraph you made reference to is a i
17 paragraph we sub s eque ntly clarified 18 dis cu s sing DES Contentions 10 and 20; and l
19 the clarification c ontained in the Record in 20 te rm s of correspondence of the Board and 21 P a rti e s r e fle c t s 300 shipments per year fro m l
22 the total of 5 unit s.
i
~
23 That is three units at Oconee and two l
24 unit s at M c G uir e ; and that is consistent l
l 25 with Table S 4.
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES, STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE, NORTM CAROUNA
-.m.
- Tuckman, Snow, G roon Diroct 49 1
It breaks down to 60 s hipme nt s per 2
unit per year.
3 MR.
GUILD:
Tha nk yo u, C o un s e l; and 4
I don't have that reference in front of me.
5 MR.
CARR:
Let me see if I can fin d 6
it.
7 8
BY MR.
G UIL D :
9 Q
G entle m en, is t h e ' 'v a l u e that Counsel just 10 s u p pli e d for the Record the value that is r efl e c t e d in
~
11 the R e s p o ti s e to the NRC qu e s ti on which we are lookin g 12 at here.
Q u e s tio n 3A ?
(
13 MR.
TU CKM AN:
- Yes, it is.
14 Q
Does the answer contained in Item 3A not 15 r efle c t 300 per year f rom each s ta tion ?
16 MR.
MCGARRY:
A g ain.
I'll s te p in.
17 That letter was misleading, and that is why 18 we haves c la rifie d it.
19 1 don't have the letter that you are 20 speaking to before me, if I may see it--
21 MR.
CARR:
We have got somebody
~
22 now looking for the correct le tte r, the 23 letter which corrected the paragraph 24 that you are reading f r o m.
25 We s h o u ld have it in a few minu te s.
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERylCE, CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
Tuckman, Snow, G roon Diroct 50 1
BY MR.
GUILD:
N 2
Q Isn't it th e case, Mr.
T uc km an, it is not 3
the value of it being tn i s l e a d i n g, it is a diff e r e nt 4
answer alto g ethe r ?
~
5 MR.
TU CKMAN:
Mr.
G u ild,
I guess I will 6
have to see the o t' h e r Response.
7 Q
I am reading f rom the le tt e r, "It is 8
a nticipa te d,
therefore, that the maximum number of 9
a s s emblie s sustained in one [tio n t h c o u l d be as many 10 as t'w e n t y - fi v e from each s ta tio n, or an annual total L
4 11 of three hundred from each s t a tion. "
12 That is not 60'from each s ta tion, is it ?
I 13 MR.
MCGARRY:
I believe rather th a n 14 pursue the point further we will stipulate 15 to the authenticity of the paragraph you ar e 10 r e f e r ring to, and when we get the letter 17 that I have made reference to, we will 18 s tipula te to the authenticity of that l ett e r.
19 20 BY M R.
GUILD:
21 Q
Did e ith e r of you, any of you, p a r ti c ip a t e 22 in p re pa rin g the Response to this A p ril 28,
- 1982, 23 lette r ?
24 Have you been able to reach a co nclu sion 25 on th at quc c tion ?
EVELYN BENGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING $ERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
Tuckmnn.
Snow.
Groen Direct 51 1
MR.
SNOW:
The qu e s tio n was on p a r ti ci-2 pation in supplying an answer?
3 Q
Yes.
4 MR.
SNOW:
My answer is yes.
5 MR.
TUCKMAN:
My answer is no.
6 MR.
GIi E E N :
No from M r.
Green.
7 Q
Do any of you gentlemen know who s u p plie d 8
the inf o r m a tio n that is contained in the R e s pon s e 9
numbe red thre e to th at le tt e r ?'
10 M R.
SNOW:
Three B only.
11 Q
That is you, Mr.
Snow ?
12 MR.
SNOW:
Yes.
(
13 NR.
TU CKM AN:
I can't give you a name, 14 I could t e ll you a work group.
15 Q
- Yes, please.
16 MR.
T U CKM A N:
Nuclear P r o duc tio n, 17 Nuclear Fuel Services.
18 Q
Who is the re spon sible Duke person for tha t
19 d ep ar tm ent ?
20 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Tom Snead.
21 Q
Do you know Mr.
Snead's title ?
22 MR.
TUCKMAN:
It has changed r e c e ntly, ol s ome thin g li k e Manader of Nuclear Fuels.
~'
(
'4 Q
G e ntlemen, is it fair to conclude that the 25 present a s s um ptio n or plan, as you choose, is that EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NOstTM CAROUNA
Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 52 I
under the authority a p p li e d for that would be received 2
at the s ta tio n, 60 a s s e m blie s per unit per year spent 3
fu el ?
4
}v. R.
SNOW:
Are you asking about the 5
a s sumption of fuel f rom where?
6 Q
From the non-Catawba sources?
I' m just 7 li s t e nin g to your L a wy e r 's e a r lie r answer which I 8
understood was 60 per unit per year.
9 MR.
M C G A R R Y:
No more than 60.
10 MR.
T U C KM A N:
Mr.
G uild, are you 11 talking about for the basis of the heat 12 lo a d 's c al culatio n or s ome thin g els e ?
(
13 14 BY MR.
GUILD:
15 Q
To the extent that they--I want to understa nd 16 what the variance is as you heard e a rlie r, gentlemen, 17 our concern is the plan.
18 MR.
MCGARRY:
There has been an 19 o bj e c tio n stated and direction not to 20 respond to qu e s tio n s about the plan.
21 MR.
GUILD:
I'm trying to understand 22 what exa c tly the company is asking for 23 authority to do ~and with respect to this 24 pa rtic ula r issue, how many a s s em blie s are 25 to be received at C a t a wb a station from the EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE, NORTM CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow, Groon Direct 53 1
u nit s at Oconee and M c Guir e, i
2 And I b e li e v e we have understood tha t 3
the Response c o nt ain ed in the A p ril 2 '82 4
letter is in error; is th at correct?
5 M R.
SNOW:
I don't know wh e th e r it 6
is or not.
The only t hi n g I can speak to 7
is the a s s ump tio n to generate the heat load 8
9 BY M R.
GUILD:
10 Q
M r.
T u ck m a n, do you know whether it was 11 in error or not?
12 MR.
T U C KM A N:
I do not know.
13 Q
M r.
Green?
14 M R.
GREEN:
I do not know.
15 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Mr.
- Guild, perhaps I can 16 e nli gh t e n you s o m e wha t.
Sixty a s s emblie s per year i i 17 the approximate discharge f rom each reactor.
18 If you did handle 60 a s s em blie s you would 19 maintain a status quo.
f 20 Q
That is helpful s o m e wh a t ; but I guess the 21 que s tion r em ains how many a s s em blie s will be receive d U
at Catawba if the a u th o rit y that is asked for to store 23 non-Catawba fuels is granted and if you do what you 24 s ay you want authority to do.
t 25 kR.
T U CKM A N:
I don't kn o w.
EVELYN BFRGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERysCE. CHARLOTTE, OsO97H CAROUseA
- Tuckman, Snow, G roon Diroct 54 l
1 MR.
SNOW:
It is imm a t e rial to the fuel t
2 pool.
3 MR.
MCGARRY:
M r.
G uild,
again I l
4 guess from a le gal po sition we have stated 5
it s e v e r al tim e s ; but the autho rity sought 6
is to receive no more than 60 a s s emblie s 7
per u nit per year.
8 MR.
GUILD:
I guess I'm hoping we 9
can find this l e t t e 'r t h a t represents the 10 additional clarification; but I would ask if 11 yEu would accept for purposes of further
(,
answers in the meantime, your Counsel 12 13 s tipula tio n that the autho rity s ought is for 14 up to 60 a s s emblie s per unit per year.
15 Can we agree that would represent 16 300 a s s emblie s per year for non-Catawba 17 fuels to be received at a Catawba station?
18 MR.
MCGARRY:
We will so s tipula t e.
19 20 BY MR.
GUILD:
21 Q
Would the C at a wb a s ta tion othe rwis e be 22 r e c eivin g spent fuel from outside the station in the 23 absence of the authority sought in this a p plic a ti o n to
~
f 24 receive Oconee and McGuire fuels?
25 M R.
TUCKMAN:
Not that I'm aware of.
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERytCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA te-
--"9
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Direct 55 T uc kman, Snow, G roca 1
Q When the Catawba station fuel pools, fuel
(
2 building and f u el handling f a cilitie s were designed, 3
was it ae sumed that the spent fu el would be handled 4
only in l e a v in g C a t awb a station, gentlemen, any one 5
of you?
6 M R.
SNOW:
It is my understanding, no; 7
but I' m not the best one to speak to that.
8 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Mr.
- Tuckman, I'm not 9
conce rned with the design of'the plant, but I know of 10 no reason it would matte r one way or the o th e r.
11 Q
I Euess I' m not a s kin g for that judgment; 12 I' m asking for the factual answer to the qu e s tio n.
t 13 MR.
TUCKMAN:
State the qu e s tio n again.
14 Q
O ri ginally was there a design for spent 15 fuel to only leave the C a tawb a s t atio n ?
16 MR.
TUCKMAN:
I'm afraid I c a n't answer 17 that since I didn't work under the design of it.
18 Q
You d on ' t know?
Does the p r elimin a r y 19 safety analysis report for Catawba station r e fl e ct 20 fuel h a ndlin g s of spent fuel to be received at the 21 s ta tion f rom other sources?
i 22 MR.
T U CKM A N:
I don't know.
23 Q
G entle m en, I would like to talk'a little bit l
24 now about the s p e c ific s of fuel h a n dli n g.
I take it, 25 Mr.
T u c km a n, you have been n o' m i n a t e d to talk about EVELYN SERGER AS3OCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA r=
Diroct 56 Tuckman, Snow, Green 1
that subject p r ima rily of the three g e ntle m e n ?
2 MR.
- Yes, sir.
3 Q
Now, I would lik e to understand the physica l 4
process and th e s p e c ific procedures and pe r sonnel 5
involved in the a c tivitie s f rom the point of receipt of 6
spent fu el f ro m no n-C a tawba sources at C a t awba s ta tio n 7
up throu gh the unloading and placement of tho se 8
a s s e mblie s in the Catawba pool.
9 MR.
R'i g h t,
okay.
10 Q
H elp me, fir s t, is there a portion of the 11 FSAR that d e s crib e s the fuel h a n dlin g process that I 12 have referred to?
13 And if s o, would you direct my attention 14 to it ?
15 M R.
TUCKMAN:
Mr.
G uild.
I d o' n ' t b'e lle v a-16 that there is a s p e c ifi c d e s c ription of how th e cask 17 would be handled or how the fu el is r emove d in th e
~.
18 FSA R.
19 Q
Is there some other source that describes 20 for th e safety analysis purposes the cask h andlin g 21 process?
22 MR.
TU CKM AN:
The actual process, it s ell 23 I d on' t b elie ve so.
24 Q
A ll right, sir; do you r e c all whe th e r or nc t 25 the FSAR makes findin g s or presents an analysis of avetru.........ociar.. r ~ones.. onrma sa vice. c tone. aom c.=ovu4
r.,
Tuckman, Snow.
Groen Direct 57 1
cask ha ndlin g ?
2 MR.
- T U C K M A N
The analysis of the metho d 3
in whic h the cask would be handled?
4 Q
- Yes, sir.
5 MR.
TU CKM AN:
I don't recall.
6 Q
Do you have a copy of the SER ?
7 MR.
T U C KM A N:
Mr.
G u ild,
I don' t b elie ve 8
it i s spoken to in the SER.
9 Q
A ll right, sir; I'm 'looking at Chapter Nine 10 in s ec tion s that appear in th a t chapter that describe 11 the spent fuel storage f acilitie s and associated proces set 12 and systems.
(.
13 Do I understand your answer to say that th at 14
,cha pt e r does not r efle ct a safety analysis of th e cask 15 h a n d li n g of the no n-C a ta wb a spent fuels ?
16 MR.
T U C KM A N:
Mr.
- Guild, the only exten t 17 that the NRC appears in this s af e ty evaluation report 18 has addressed it, it addresses the r e sp o n s i b ilit y of 19 storage at Oconee or M cGuir e; and there are some 90 references for overhead h a n dlin g systems for casks.
21 Q
Can you help me with that r e f e renc e, Mr.
oo Tuckman?
~-
23 MR.
TU CKM AN:
On Page 9-7 it says, "The 24 Staff also dete rmine d that as long as material 25 c o mbina tion s of the fu els and storage racks and space r EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE CHARLOTTE NORTM CAROUNA
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Tuckman.
Snow.
Green Dirnet 58 I
insert materials to bs used in the spent fuel or non-
.(
2 C at awba fuel are identical to those for C at awba fuel, 3
the spent fu el pool clean-up system r equire m en t s.
4 there is a p o s s ibility of this."
5 A nd the next page on the bottom paragraph 6
it talks about spent fuel cask pads.
7 Q
A nd those are the only analyses th at you 8
see in h a ndlin g of n on-C at awb a fuels in the NSER?
9 MR.
MCGARRI:
I' m sorry?
10 II BY M R.
G UI LD :
12 Q
Those are the only analyses that you see f
t 13 o f non-C atawb a fuel ha ndlin g s in the NSER?
I4 M R'.
In the tim e all5 c a te d
- now, 15 yes.
16 Q
I don't wa nt to rush you now, if you study I7 further--
18 MR.
MCGARRY:
I will say that the I9 SER speaks for its elf.
20 MR.
GUILD:
I know it does.
Counselor.
ol
~
MR.
CARK:
Off the Record.
~~
(Dis cu s sion off the R e co rd. )
23
/
24 MR.
GUILD:
C ou n s el, what I'm 25 inte re s t ed in pursuing is fir s t if the EVELYN BERGER ASSOctATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUMA
- Tuckman, Snow, Green Diroct 59 1
s pe cific s of handling are not s et forth in 2
the A p pli c a n t's final s af ety analysis report 3
and there are some references to handling 4
in the Staff's safety analysis report, safet)-
5 e valu a tion report, excuse m e.
I want to 6
know th e factual bases for the Staff's 7
conclusion to the extent th er e are none by 8
the Witnes s e s, and I'm t r yin g to direct 9
their at t e nti on to that, whether or not ther e 10 are any further bases.
11 MR.
MCGARRY:
Those qu e s tion s are 12
(,
best directed to the S t a f f, but to the extent 13 our Witne s s e s are f a m ili a r with th e basis, 14 that is
- a. valid inquiry.
15 MR.
GUILD:
Is there another referen c e 1R 16 MR.
CARR:
No; I was just g oi n g to 17 say that there are references in th e FSAR 18 Civil S e c tio n which supports tho s e 19 conclusions about the cask drop.
l 20 l
l 21 BY MR.
GUILD:
l 22 Q
Yes; do you know of any inf o rm a tio n l
l 23 p ro vid e d the NRC other t h'a n what is c o nt ai n e d in the 24 FSAR c onc e r nin g the handling o f non-C a t a wb a spent l
25 fuels at C a t awba s tatio n ?
svrtemsaRo R associares. sianoTven MseORTING sERytCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA L
Tuc km an, Snow, G reen Direct 60 1
MR, SNOW:
I am not aware of any.
2 MR.
I am not aware of any.
3 MR.
GREEN:
Nor am I.
4 Q
C oun s el has s u p pli e d us w it h a November l
5
- 2nd, 1982,
- letter, and does this letter cla rif y or i
6 correct or alt e r the inf o rmation s u p p li e d the 7
C ommi s sion concerning the numbe r of a s s emblie s to 8
be received at Catawba station from Oconee and 9
M cG ui r e (indic atin g) ?
10 MR.
MCGARRY:
I will re pr e s ent that 11 it does.
12 13 BY M R.
GUILD:
14 Q
A nd g entlemen, if you could, do you agree 15 with C oun s el ?
Does this letter r e fl e c t C ouns el's 16 e a rlie r submis sion that there are to be no more than 17 l
60 a s s e mb'li e s per unit per year t r an s s hip p ed ' to 18 C at awba s ta tion ?
l I9 MR.
TU CKM AN:
It seems to be wh at the 20 le tt e r says.
21 MR.
GUILD:
Can we have this letter 1
on i
id en tifi e d and received as an E xhib it to thi s 1
l 23 Deposition for cla rity ?
24 MR.
MCGARRY:
C e rt ainly, I guess i t 25 w o u ld be ap p r o p riat e as De po sition Exhibit avan ~.
.....ociar...r ~orve anno,m~ seimes. c==orre. ao-c aou a
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T u c k en a n,
Snow.
Green Direct 61 1
Number One.
7 2
(Whereupon, the document referr ed 3
to as letter dated November 2,
- 1982, 4
w a. s marked and receive d by the 5
Court Reporter as D e po sitio n Exhibit 6
O ri e and entered into the R e c ord. )
7 8
BY MR.
GUILD:
9 Q
A gain, on the s u b j e'c t of cask ha n d lin g, what 10 I want to focus on is what are the make s and mo d el
)
11 numbers of casks to be used under the auth o r ity soug ht 12 to receive and store non-Catawba fuels at C a tawb a i,
13
- station, g en tle m en ?
14 MR.
C ARR-We are looking for the 15 Response to the Interrogatory whic h 16 id e n tifi e d the licensed cask.
17 We have a similar piece of in f o r m a tio n 18 in a letter to M r s.
- Adensam, if that is 19 accurate.
i 20 MR.
MCGARRY:
That is correct, it 21 is consistent with our Reeponse to 22 Interrogatory 121, that R e s pon s e being M
the O c tobe r,
- 1982, d o c um e n t.
24 MR.
GUILD:
Yes, and those casks M
are--
svuou esac.en AssociArms. stemones aspo=rino suavies.cwaaLOTTE. NORrM CAROUNA
Direct 62 T u c km an, Snow, Green
=
1 MR.
TUCKMAN:
They are identified 2
in here.
Trunk N A C IN F S 4, N LIl-2, ' TM 8 3
and r ail, IF300 and N LIl0 2 4.
4 We also make the s tat e me nt that 5
a dditio nal NRC c e r tifie d c a s k s may be 6
a v a il'a bl e at the tim e 'of shipment.
... -i i.i '
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8 BY M R'.
G U,_I. L D :_..,.
I,
'2 9
Q Of'those casks identified there, Mr.
y
,i.
10 Tuckman, w h ic h' casks are currently employed by D u kt-11 Power Company for spent fuel shipment s ?
12 MR. TUCKMAN:
I don't know.
O 13 Q
Do you know which casks are e mplo ye d in 14 the Oconee and McGuire shipme nt s ?
Do youfhave a
15 reference to that?
16 M R.
TU CKM AN:
I'm not p o s itive.
I think, 17 but 18 m not sure.
l 18 Q
.What do the initials stand for, do you know 19 the full name s of the manuf actur er s of the casks 20 id e ntified ?
21 M R.
TU CKM A N:
I know s o m e.
22 Q
Make a stab at it.
23 MR.
T U CKM AN:
National Lead Industries, l
24 N LI; the company that NAC represents escapes me at 25 this second.
N FS. is Nuclear Fuel S er vic e s.
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERvlCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
B
- Tuckman, Snow, G re en Direct 63 1
Q And TN?
\\
2 Ie R.
T U CKM AN:
I don't know.
3 Q
IF?
4 MR.
TU CKM AN:
I don't know.
5 Q
M r.
T u c km an, I want to ask you,
- sir, if 6
you can take it step by step, the process inc lu din g 7
the de s c riptio n of the f acilitie s, p r oc e dur es, and 8
p e r s onn el in v o lv e d from the point where the a s s e mbli es 9
from the spent fuel a s s e mbli e's of non-C a tawb a fu els 10 enter the C a t a wb a s t ati on site to the p oin t where the 11 a s s emblie s Ire placed in the fuel storage pools.
12 A nd if you could,
- sir, make reference to 13 fi gu re s and table s in the FSAR as we move f o rwa r d.
14 MR.
TU C KMAN:
You are looking for a 15 five minute or three hour response? Our procedures 16 at C atawba are not fin aliz e d where the actual handlin.g 17 of this s itua tion is concerned.
18 I can give you an idea of how th e y p obably 19 will be written.
20 Q
Let me stop you at that point.
Are there 21 d raf t procedures that are now available ?
22 M R.
TU CKM AN:
I don't believe th e r e is a l
draft for the casks for unloading of n o n-C a t a wb a fuel 23 4
24 y et.
25 O
A re there draf ts of any ha ndlin g procedure s avet n esRGe R associates. sta=OTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUMA
-_e
- Tuckman, Snow.
Green Direct 64 1
a va ila bl e yet?
2 h: R.
T U C KM AN:
- Yes, they are a ll for 3
C at awba fu els.
4 Q
Those procedures, would it be fair to 5
u nd e r s ta nd, M.r.
- Tuckman, r efle c t th e -- s h a ll I 6
c ha ra cte rize --no rmal r e fu elin g and spent fuel h an dlin ;
7 attendant with the o p e r a tio n of Catawba s ta tio n alone?
8 MR.
TU CKM AN:
That's correct.
9 Q
Are those precedur$s e ith e r id en tic al. t o 10 or very s imila r to procedures already in final form 11 and in use a McGuire s tation ?
12 M R.
TUCKMAN:
They are; 13 Q
Do you know wh e th e r there are procedures I4 in draf t or fi n a l form at 2v c G ui r e for the receipt and 15 h a n d li n g of no n-M c G uir e spent fuels at that s tation ?
16 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Yes, the r e are.
l 17 Q
Are you f amilia r with tho s e ?
~=
18 MR.
T U C KM AN:
I have not looked at them 19 in quite some time.
90
~
Q Mr.
T u c km a n, what will your r e s p o n sibiliti es 21 be or is your r e s p o n s ibilit y for the d e velo p m e n t of procedures to be used at C a t awb a for n o n-C at awb a 93
~
fuel handlers?
04
^
MR.
TU CKM AN:
Procedures are developed 25 by the O o e r ation s Grono.
O ne of the croups that avetru.aaan a associares. src~ortre auroari~a suavice. ca.=yorre. woam ciaov=4
_ _ ~ _ _, _ _
T u c kman,
- Snow, Green Direct 65 I
reporb to me is the Reactor E n gine e rin g G r ou p who do es t
2 have r e s p o n s ibility for r e vie win g those procedures.
3 Q
Would you likely see those procedures befo
- e 4
they are fin ally ap p r o ve d ?
5 MR.
TU CKM A N:
Yes.
I would.
6 Q
A ll right, sir; I interrupted you.
You wer e 7
b e ginnin g to s a y--fir s t, Mr.
Tuckman, I have in f r ont 8
of me Volume Nine which has figur e s and d r a win g s 9
of the spent fuel buildin g s and attendant a s s o ciated 10 h a n d li n g equipment; does it not (indicating) ?
Mk.
T U C K M A N :
- Yes, sir.
11 12 Q
Before we look at that, can you di r e c t my 13 att entio n to the p o r tion s of the FSAR which would 14 include a figur e s ho win g a general site d e s cription; 15 and with reference to th a t figur e, the f acilitie s, 16 j
procedures, and personnel to be involved at t h e' p oint l
17 where the n on-C atawba fuels are received on site ?
l 18 M ~r.
T u c km a n, do you have available those i
19 FSAR fi gu r e s so we can respond to that last qu e s tio n "
20 MR.
TUCKMAN:
- Yes, sir, I b elie v e so.
l 21 Q
H elp me ide ntif y what you have in front of 1
l 22 you.
23 l
- h. R.
TU CKM AN:
FSAR figu r e s in Chapter 94 general site plan Two lab ele d E R 2.1.1 - 3, which is a 05 c
showing in c o min g roads and major buil din g s.
l EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATE S. STENOTYPE REPORT 4NG SE RVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
T uc hm an,
- Snow, Green Direct 66 1
If we were to bring s p e nt fuel in from anot'ier 2
f a cility, it would co me over e s s e ntially into th e plant 3
a lon g one of the inner plant roads.
4 The c e c u rity fence would be opened and the 5
truck would be backed into the fuel h andlin g bay of 6
the Spent Fuel B ui1d in g.
7 Q
Let me stop you there.
By what route 8
would the spent fuel enter the site boundary, 8
s p e cific ally ?
10 Can you identify the road?
II M R.
M CG ARRY:
I will object to that 12 que s tion.
T h r.t deals with the t r a n s p o r t atio n 13 of the spent fuel, and we view this 14 C ont ention as di s cu s sin g the storage of that 15 spent fuel and that the C o nt e ntio n b e gin s 16 with the fuel on site and the fuel h an dlin g 17 e o m m e nc es.
18 MR.
GUILD:
It is e s s e ntially ur 19 p o s iti o n that at least the C o n t e n tio n, as 20 A dmitte d, required the A p pli ca n t to 91 demonstrate the storage rnethod on site,
~
92 whether it is stored s afely; and I'm a s ki n g
~
93
~
the Witne s s to identify from that point 24 where the a s s e mbly arrivec on site and 25 h a n d li n e the re af t e r.
EVELYN S ERGE R ASSOCIATES, STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMaRLOTTE. NORTN CAROUNA
Tuckman, Snow, Green Dir ec t 67 3
M R.
M CG ARR Y:
We would request
.(
2 the Witn e s s not to answer with respect to 3
the roads, but once on site, the question is fair game.
4 5
6 BY M R.
GUILD:
7 Q
W ell, it may be a fairly technical 8
d is tin ctio n c o n finin g your answer as your C ouns el has 9
o bj e c t e d, I will ho no r that.
10 I dis put e the obj ec tion and we reserve our 11 rights to r e vle w the qu e s tio n more widely, but takin g 12 it from the site, wh at is the route on site where the k'
13 a s s e rn b l y is received?
14 MR.
TU CKM AN:
It is received at our 15 normal access road.
We do not have a very d e t a il e d 16 site p la n in the FSAR showin g th e individual roads 17 in the plant.
N.
18 It would come in through the access road, 19 by the s e c u rit y fence--
20 Q
H elp me understand which road that is, if you can.
Is it the road that will be where the plant 21 22 e mplo y e e s will come in when they are c o mi n g on site 23 once the cite is operational?
24 N R.
T U CKM AN:
N o, the pla nt employee s 25 come in this area (i ndi c a tin g); this is for d eliv e rie s EbELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. MORTM CAROUN4
T uc km an,
- Snow, G re en Direct 68 1
at this end (indicating).
2 Q
What other purpose is this ' route us e d t h a t 3
you id e ntified ?
4 MR.
M CG A R R Y:
I will po s e ' an othe r 5
o bj e c tio n, but I will not instruct the 6
Witne s s, not to a n s we r; but the o bj e c tio n is 7
discussions of routes even on site are 8
irrelevant to the C onte n tio n.
' hat while the shipment 9
We maintain t
10 is in tr an sit it is Oconee and M c Guir e 11 fu el and not Catawba fuel, Catawba fuel 12 being d e fine d as any fuel stored at Catawba k -
13 The C o n t e n tio n speaks to the issue 14 of once that t r a n s po r t a tio n vehicle has com e 15 to rest at its fi n a l r e s ting point at Catawb.t.
16 and that the fuel h a nd lin g commencing with 17 respect to that cask, that th e n is the 18 s ubj ec t of th e C on t e ntion.
19 MR.
GUILD:
Could you answer th e 20 que s tion, no twith s ta ndin g the obj e c tio n.
21 gi r.
T uckma n ?
22 MR.
We bring the fuel 23 on site through--
24 25 BY MR.
GUILD:
Evf LYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SE RyICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
., ~.
T u c k m r. c,
- Snow, Green Direct 69 1
Q I'm asking you to id e n tif y the access road 2
you alr e a d y referred to.
If it does not have a name.
3 help me understand which road you are referring to.
4 You said it is the road where materials ar e 5
received.
6 MR.
T U.C K M A N:
Some materials are 7
r e c eiv e d on that road.
8 Q
If you would, with r ef e r ence to the figu r e 9
that you have id e n tifi ed, d e s cYib e the beginning of 10 that road where it b e gin s at the side boundary. and its 11 path and w hh e it ende up the read that will be used 12 by th e spent fuel.
('
13 MR.
TUCKMAN:
The access road is a 14 warehouse right here, the access road is beside the 15 warehouse and alongside the s e cu rity f enc e right in 16 this area of the plant (indicating).
17 There is a--
~
18 Q
It comes in from which dir e ction ?
19 MR.
T U CKMAN:
It enters from the we s t.
20 Q
And moves east?
21 ht R.
T U CKM AN:
M ove s eact, there is a 22 f e nc e, r ecu rity f enc e, w hi c h is opened to allow the 23 truck to move in a northerly d ir e c tio n.
24 Q
It c om e s in on the southerly side?
25 MR.
TU CK MAN:
Of the S pe nt Fuel Building EVELYN 9 ERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SCUICE. CHARLOTTE. NOMTM CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow, G reen Direct 70 k-1 Q
A ll right, sir; is there a more d e t ail e d 2
fi gu r e that shows the sit e p l a r.,
particularly the area s 3
as they enter the Fu el Buildin g ?
4 A
I don't b elie v e there is an FSAR fi gu r e.
5 9.1.1-1, it is the fir s t figu r e in that s e c tio n, that 6
dia g r a m of the bay where it would be c omin g into the 7
S p e nt Fuel B u ildin g.
8 Q
- Yes, I see.
9 hi R.
GUILD: 'Qff the R ecord a second 10 (Discussion off the R eco rd. )
C-11 12 BY h; R.
GUILD:
'(
13 Q
hi r.
- Tuckman, give rn e the r ef er enc e, if 14 you would, we find a eecond fi gu r e a little bit larger 15 in scale.
16 MR.
T U C K h1 A N :
1.2.2-17.
t 17 Q
A ll right, sir; now then we are talking l
18 about a truck shipment that comes in the access road 1
19 as you have described.
l 20 That would then arrive where?
l 21 hi R.
TU CKM AN:
It wo uld arrive at the
~
22 Spent Fuel Pool.
I 23 Q
At the Spent Fuel Storage B u ildin g ?
l l
24 Iv. R.
TU CKM AN:
- Yes, at the s outh end of l
25 the buil din 5 EVELYN BERGE R ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SE RvlCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAftOUNA
- Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 71 1
Q And f rom ther e ?
2 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Once it is inside there ar e 3
doors th at open to allow the truck to come into the 4
Spent Fuel P o ol; and as I indicated, that is on 9.1.1 - 1.
5 Q
A ll right, sir; the truck would pull inside 6
that bay?
I' m looking at three e le va ti o n s on that.
7 k R.' T U CKM A N:
The upper left
'c o r n e r.
8 Q
A ll right, sir.
9 MR.
D o. you see the r ailr o ad 10 tracks down the center?
The truck w o u ld come from 11 the top of t e d r a win g down into that area.
12 Q
Now the lower lef t ele va tio n shows a rail-n's.
13 car occupying that bay.
14 MR.
TUCKM AN:
That's correct, a truck 15 cask would e s s entially f ollow the same path and come 16 to rest at the same point that r ailc a r w ould ; th at 's 17 eorrect.
T.
18 You see the outline of the Spent Fuel 19 shipping cask car in the Spent Fuel B u ildin g ?
90 Q
T hat is a r ailc a r that is indicated?
21 LR.
TU CKM AN:
Yes.
no Q
What would be the dif f e r en c e if it w ould be 03 a truck cask?
d 04 MR.
T U C K k. A N :
It would be s ma ll e r.
l.
l O5 s m a ll e r, centered on the fi g u r e.
E s s e ntially once EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SE RVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTee CAROUNA
Tuckman, Snow, G reen Direct 72 1
in that po sitio n the truck cask ob viou s ly received 2
eaperwork and inventory r equir em ent s would be 3
observed.
4 The cask, it s elf, or the truck would be 5
curveyed to assure there was no r a dio a c tiv e c o nt ami-6 nation on t h e. outside of it.
7 Q
What kind of survey?
8 MR.
TU CKM A N:
He would fir s t survey with 9
smears.
10 Q
Are those smears read at the point.the 11 cask is rece ved?
~
12 1.'. R.
TUCKMAN:
No, they are read in the
's 13 H ealth Physics A c co unting Room.
14 Q
Smears are taken?
15 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Smears are taken, placed 16 in envelopes, and en velop e s are transported to the 17 H e alth Physics A e countin g R o o m.
18 Q
A re u nlo a din g a c tivitie s continuing whil e 19 the smears are b ein g processed?
- 0 kR.
TU CKM AN:
No, the smears are 21 counted.
Af te r th at we take off the impr ct limit e r s 92 on the front and back of the cash.
~
93 G
D e s c rib e those, would you plea se ?
24 hR.
The i.. p a c t limit e r s are removed and stored in the building.
e vetv~........soci.re...n ~orve..onw.... vies. c=*=wrra.
o r~ ca.ou~.
T u c km an,
- Snow, Green Direct 73 1
Q A nd what is an impact limit e r, Mr.
t 2
T uc kman ?
3 M R.
TU CKM AN:
It is a device to aid in 4
a s s u rin g the int e g rity of the truck cask while moving 5
over the road.
6 Q
D e s c r i b' e it just in general terms; what 7
does an impact li mi t e r look like ?
8
'MR.
GREEN:
It is an emergency absorber.
9 It comes in various types.
5'y p i c a lly it is an egg 10 crate that absorbe energy in the cask.
11 Q
V[h a t kind of m a te rials,
do you know?
12 MR.
TU CKM A N:
It varies.
t 13 Q
Metal?
14 M R.
TU CKM AN:
I don't know for sure.
15 Q
M r.
- Tuckman, I interrupt you at that point 16 What procedure is f ollo we d dependant on the re s ults 17 of the Health Phys ic s' counting of the smears ?
~ ~.
18 MR.
TO CKM AN:
N o r m ally, anything whic h 19 c om e s into the plant which could be c o nta min at e d is 20 surveyed as a p r o t e c ti on a gain s t the receiving source 21 which is as a rule, beware if we had received someth ing 22 which had not been properly decontaminated at the 23 other end.
24 Q
What other spent fuel s hip m ent s would be 25 included in that survey r equir e ment ?
evetv~.eaoe n associares. sn~oryne nerom~a ss avies. c~47rra. ~om~ canoun.
Tuckman, Snow, Groen Direct 74 1
MR.
MCGARRY:
I would object to tha t, 2
it is irrelevant.
3 Iv, R.
GUILD:
I would a s k you to answ ur 4
the qu e s tion.
5 MR.
T U C KM A N:
Perhaps some tools 6
th a t might have been shipped from an,NSS 7
vendor for use in plant mainte n anc e or 8
s o m e thin g.
9 1
10 BY M R.
G UILD:
~
11 Q
would those tools be surveyed?
12 MR.
TU CKM AN:
The box, the c o ntain e r
('~
13 would be surveyed.
These would be to ol s that would 14 be used in contact with say reactor internals that 15 might have been c ontamina ted.
16 Q
They are shipped in a secure container 17 because of that?
18 MR.
TUCKMAN:
Yes.
l 19 Q
Is that the normal pr a ctic e ?
20 MR.
T U CKM AN:
Yes.
l 21 Q
In the course of the u nit 's o p e r a tio n other 22 than for receipt and storage of non-Catawba fuels, 23 would you have oc c a sio n to service surveyed casks 24 that would be received on site for shipment of Catawb a 25 fuels off site ?
l EVELYN BE RGE R ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SE NytCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA U
T uc hman,
- Snow, G roen Direct 75 1
Do you f o ll o w the qu e s tio n ?
2 MR.
MCGARRY:
A g ain, I would o bj e c :
3 to that qu e s ti o n.
4 MR.
W ould you a sk the 5
qu e s ti o n a gain ?
6 7
BY MR.
GUILD:
8 Q
Sure; would you have occasion unde r statior 9
o p e r a tio n s other than for r e e $1 vin g n o n-C at awba spent 10 fu el, to have casks come into th e facility as you hav e 11 d e s c rib e d a n d~ requir e H e alth Phy s i cis t's surveys?
12 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Into this f a cility or the 13 plant as a whole ?
14 Q
Into this s p e cifi c f a c ilit y we are talking 15 about now.
16
, M R., T U C KM A N:
Yes.
17 Q
A nd under what cir cum s tance s, give me an
=.
18 example of why that would come up.
19 M R.
T U CKM AN:
An example mi g ht be a l
20 desire to do fuel sip pin g, and we might decide to 21 borrow or lease that equipment f rom another f a cility.
22 Q
We do not want to get into a whole new l
23 subject.
What is the term " sippin g" ?
l 24 MR.
TU CKM AN:
If you su s p e c t that you j
i fuel f a ilu r e and you try to d e t e r min e whic h i
25 have some EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERYlCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA l
l
- Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 76 1
a s s embly might be the f aulty a r s embly, it is a d e vic e 2
to allow you to do that.
3 Q
Can we agree, h' r.
- Tuckman, that the 4
spent fuel received on site at C at a wb a f r om non-Catawba 5
sources presents a s ig nific a nt r a dia tio n hazard?
6 MR.
TU CKM A N:
No.
7 Q
Can we agree that because of its radiation 8
hazard it requires s p e cific Health Physics and Safety 9
procedures for safe h a n d l i n g ?'-
10 MR.
TU CKM A N:
- Yes, we do; we would 11 take special p r e ca u tion s in shipping or receiving of 12 new or spent fuel.
s 13 Q
- Well, I want to focus your a t t entio n on 14 spent fuel.
Would you agree that the precautions 15 nec e s sitate d by spent fuel because of their r adia tio n 16 hazard are s ig nific a nt, pa r ti c ula rly as contrasted I7 with receipt of new fuel?
~:.
18 MR.
TU CKM A N:
Yes.
19 Q
From a health and safety standpoint the 20 spent fu el presents a higher radiation rish than the 21 new fuel?
22
- g. R.
TU CKM AN:
Yes.
93 Q
A re there procedures that are involved in
~
k 24 n u r v e yin g the non-Catawba spent fuel casks that are 25 in additio n to or different f rom the procedures that EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NOurTM CAROUNA
- Tuchman, Snow, G r e en Direct 77 I
would o th e r wi s e be in place if C a ta wba did not 2
receive non-C a tawb a spent fu el ?
3 M R, TU CKMAN:
Yes.
4 Q
Can you identify those, ple a s e ?
5 MR.
T U CKM AN:
If we were not h a nd lin g n otl hand lin g spent fu el from other 6
- fuel, we were 7
- sources, we would not be putting r a di c ac tive fuel 8
into the spent f u el pool.
9 The activities acsociated with h a n d lin g th e 10 casks are somewhat dif f e r e nt to put a fuel a s s e mbly 11 into the pool than to take them out.
12 Q
Before we r e s um e going through th e detaile d s
13 d e s c rip tio n of where we go to get those a s s e m b lie s 14 in place in the pool, o u tlin e for me the sig nifi c a nt 15 diff e renc e r in the a c tivity that you have just a llu d e d
~
16 to in' r e c e ivin g spent fuel and putting it in the pool 17 as contrasted with taking it out?
T.
18 M R.
TU CKM AN:
The major diff e re nc e 19 associated with putting s pe nt fuel into the pool would 20 be the fillin g of the spent fu el cask c a vit y with water 21 prior to p ttt i n g it in the pool, u nlo adin g the a s s embly 22 Q
A ll right, I want you to describe that 23 dif f e r en c e in some detail as we move back into the 24 process; but you have taken us as far as the surveys 25 and the r e sult s of the surveys.
EbELYN B ERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE NORTM CAROUNA
- Tuchman, Snow, Green Direct 78 1
Will the A p plic a nt have any a d ditional 2
equipm e nt f acilitie s or personnel to p e rfo rm the 3
survey and H e alth Physics' function that are neceasi-4 tated by the receipt of n on-C a t awba spent fuel?
5 M R.
T UCKM AN:
I don't think I und e r s tan d 6
what you are g e t ti n g a t'.
7 Q
If C atawb a were to operate solely as a 8
power reactor ge n e ra tin g its own spent fuel with the 9
n e c e s s a,r y faculty, p r o c e du r e s' a n d f a cilitie s to do 10 that,. personnel to do that would have one set of pro-11
- cedurec, f a cilitie s,
personnel--
12 What I' m asking you to focus on is what is i
13 u niqu ely dif f e r en t, e s p e c ia lly with respect to f a cility, 14 procedures, and personnel, that is neces sitated by 15 this portion of your ap pli c a tio n ?
16 MR.
If we were to receive II spent fu el on a regular basis, we would take addi-18 tional people to deal with it.
i l9 Q
How many additional people, in what 20 c apa city ?
21 MR.
We would need additional l
l 22 operators and H e alth Physicists, technicians to per-
~
23 form th a t work.
l 24 Q
A ll right, by operators, how do you mean l
5 that t er m ?
l
(
tvatvN a tmos m Associates. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERYtCE. CHARLE7TTE. NORTH CAROUNA
.T u c k m r. n,
- Snow, Green Direct 79 1
ht R.
TU CKM A N:
The o p e r ation s group is 2
the one that is recponsible for a c tu ally movin g the 3
f u el.
4 Q
Not operators in the sense of Ce nt rol Room 5
Operators, but some other personnel?
6 MR.
TUCKMAN:
S ame g r ou p.
7 Q
Same group, same training, qu alifi c a tio n s,
8 experience?
9 NR.
T U CKM AN:
N o' t in this particular 10 endeavor.
11 Q
T h'it is what I want to focus on; what type 12
- people, by operators, what job d e s c rip tio n ?
Give me l(
13 f,,1 14 MR.
We are talking about an 15 o p e r a tio n, s up e r vi s o r and Nu cle a r Equipment Operator s, 16 to pe rf o rm these a c tio n s.
II Q
A ll right, sir; one supervisor?
18 k R.
TU CKMAN:
It would be a supervisor 19 for this a c t i.v i t y while it goes on.
I oo Q
Would that person have o the r dutie s ?
91
~
MR.
T U CKM AN:
No.
22 Q
Hae that position been id en tifie d at the 23 s tatio n ?
24
- h. R.
TU CKM AN:
The person would be 25 assigned to this par ticula r f unctio n w hen needed and be EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SE RVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
-.---e.-
l Tuckman, Snow, G r ee e n Direct 80 I
r elie ve d of his other dutie s.
4 2
Q W he r e would he or she be assigned f rom?
3 MR.
T U CKM AN:
From the o p e r a tio n s group.
4 Q
What po r tio n of th e op e r ation s group?
5 MR.
TUCKM AN:
I d o n 't understand.
6 Q
Is t h e r'e a designated person by job title 7
or individual id e ntit y who has been i d e ntifi e d as th e 8
person who would as sume the r e s p o n s ibility as 9
O p e r a tion s S up e r vi s o r ?
10 Iv R.
T U C KM A N:
He would be assigned as 11 needed.
12 O
What would this p e r s o n 's normal du ti e s be?
13 MR.
TU CKMAN:
A s sistant C hi ef Su p e r vi s o r,
14 A s s ic tant O p e r a tin g En gin e e r; he could be a lot of 15 dif f e r ent individuals within the operations group.
16 Q
Will there be a procedure that s p e cifie s 17 the qu a lific a tio n s and normal du tie s of the person whc,
18 would be de signate d. to pe rfo rm this fun c tio n ?
19 MR.
T U C KM A N:
I would think so.
20 Q
Has that procedure or de s c ription been 21 e ctablis he d ?
22 MR.
T U C KM AN:
N o.
c o m p a r a b'l e procedure or p o rition bec n 23 Q
Has a 24 e s ta bli s he d at M cGuire ?
25 MR.
Yes.
l EVELYN BE RGER ASSOC 4ATFS. STENOTYPE REPORTING SE RvfCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 81 1
Q Who at h' c G u i r e perf orms the functions you s
2 have reference to?
3 h: R.
T U C KM AN:
The individ u al assigned at 4
the tin e; it is not a unique p o si tio n.
5 Q
Can you tell me the oo s ition which would 6
form the pool f rom which that person would be 7
designated?
8 MR.
TU CKM AN:
I couldn't tell you at 9
M cG uire.
'f, 10 Q
If you would, the othe r personnel th at woul d 11 be d e t a ile d
'o'r required to pe rf o rm this f u'n c t i o n - -
12 MR.
TU CKM A N:
Health Physics T echnicia ns t'
13 perform the survey.
14 Q
Survey?
15 MR.
T U C KM AN:
M o nit o rin g.
16 Q
W ould he have other duties ?
l 17 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Yes.
I i
l 18 Q
What else w ould he do?
l 19 M R.
TUCKMAN:
The one that would be i
l 20 assigned to that task would be asigned f u ll ti m e,
I l
l 21 guess.
22 Q
Any others ?
23 M R.
T U C K M A N:'
- h. a i n t e n a n c e personnel, 1
24 probably one mechanic.
25 Q
What would the me ch a nic 's duti e s involve ?
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SE RvlCE.CMARr.DTTE. NORTM CAROUMA
Tuckman, Snov.,
Green Direct
$2 1
MR.
TU CKM A N:
A s sis t Operations, 2
O A ll right now, l et 's see if I und e rs tand.
3 W ould there be-an O p e r a tio n s ' su pe rvis o r, H e alth 4
Phy sic s T e c hnicia n, one mechanic; any othe r s ?
5 MR.
T U C K hi A N :
Nuclear Equipment Operatcirs c 6
Q Is that. plural?
7 M R.
TU CKM AN:
- Yes, two.
8 Q
Two; what equipment would they be 9
responsible for o p e r atin g ?
10 MR.
TU CKM AN:
The hoist.
11 Q
Ibthat all?
12 MR.
T U CKM AN:
Let's proceed on, some-t 13 thing might come to mind.
14 Q
We have the truck into the bay, we have 15 done surveys, we have. r emoved the im p ac t--wh at do 16 you c all them?
17 hi R.
TU CKM AN:
Im p a c t li mi te r s.
?.
18 Q
Then what?
19 gg,' T U CKM A N:
The cask is raised to a 20 v e rtic al p o s itio n by,the.
125 ton crane.
21 Q
Do you have a figu r e that shows a cask?
22 Give us a fi gu r e r e p r e s e ntin g a cask truck analysis, 23 M r.
Tuckman.
24 l
(Wh e r eu p o n, Mr.
Tuckman 25 refer red to the requested in f o r m a tio n. )
EVELYN BERGER AL1001ATES. STENOTYPE REPORTlhG SE RVICE. C84ARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA e'
T uc kman,
- Snow, Green Direct S
1 BY MR.
GUILD:
,y 2
O 8.2.1-4, and that ic e n titl e d,
" Cask Drop'
/..
-3 E valua tion. "
Is that an accurate r e p r e o c n t a t i o'n of i
4 the configuration of the type cask we arc t a l k 1 r. g a b o t. t.- ~
.~.
5 truck cask ?
6 M R.
GREEN:
M i k e.G r' e e n,
yes.-
,o Q
W h'e f e is the lif tin g' lu g that w ou ld1 be 7
8 employed located on that cadk ys shown on th e diagra m, 9
sir?
10 MR.
GREEN:
It is not at the top of the 11 cask.
It is along the side, I would eay in the upp6r 12 one-third of the caek.
(
13 Q
A ll right,
- sirs,
.in' the v e r tic al center 14 line of the cask?
15 MR.
GR E EN:
- Yes, sir, 16 Q
Is that a unif o rm c onfigu r a tion that covers 17 the make and manu f a c tu r e r 's --a s long as we are 18 a
talking about truck casks, for the lif tin g ' lu g mand the 19 location of that lif tin g lug ?
/
90 MR.
GREEN:
I'm not sure it is unif o rm,
~
91
~
I' m not f a milia r with a ll the cacks.
go Q
Do you know whether the casks t h a t' w e r e
~
23 id en tifie d in response to Ea r lie r qu e s tio ning, t'h e c onfig t ratio n i s th e same as you have just ~deceribed1 24
~
25 MR.
GREEN:
C o uld you repeat that?
EVELYN BERGER Af SOCIATES. STENOTYPE ftEPORTING SERylCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA o
4
- - - - -.. ~, -.
,m
,-,e-
T uc hmar,
- Snow, G re en Direct 84 1
Q Sure, for the cacks that are set out in 2
c a. r li e r answere in the A p ril letter, are the lif ting 3
lu g e and general c o nfigu r a tion s of those casks, the 4
truck ca sks now as you have de s c rib e d the m ?
5 MR.
GREEN:
- Yes, sir.
/
?
s I
g j'
' 6 Q
Just to' give a c ompa r ative response for a 4
7.
rail cask where would th e lif tin g lu g be?
8 MR.
GREEN:
Same general p o s itio n.
ac curats' r e pr e s entation of a rai 9-Q Is this an 10- cash as shown in that 8.1.2-4 figu r e ?
~
11 MR.
G R EE N :-
I cannot remember if this is j
12 a r epre s entation of a rail cask or truck cask.
It is 13 the largest one or the one that would be th e most 14 ;
c ritic al for the cask drop i n v e s t i g a. ti o n.
15 Q
Would you agree that the largest cask woul d
16 be a rail cask?
17 MR.
GREEN:
I would say s o.
18 Q
How many a s s emblie s does a r ail cask hold ?
19 MR.
GREEN:
I don't know.
20-Q Does it hold more than one?
l 21 MR.
GREEN:
I don't know.
2:!
Q Are there casks that are s m a ll e r than the 23 cachs th at are reprecented on fi gu r e 9.1.2-4 th at (d
24 w ould be ernployed at Catawba station ?
- 25 Iv. R.
GREEN:
A gain, I don't know whic h
(
r 2.
evrun a enorR AssociArts. sTENOTTPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHAR OTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
- Tuckmno, Snow, G roea D1roct 85 I
cask would be e mplo y e d at Cctawba Nu cic e r Station 2
at this tin.e.
but yes, there are esshe emaller than 3
the one r epr e s ented in that figu r e.
4 Q
Cen you give me a general comparative 5
reference if a cask shown in the fi gu r e that has been 6
r epre s ented as the largest cash is shown to be eight 7
f e et wide by seventeen. feet t a ll, what would the 8
a p p r o xima t e dim en s io n s be of the s m all e r cask?
M R.
GREEN:
I c o n'i d n ' t tell you that.
8 10 Q
Do you have an e s tim a t e, es a p p r o xim a tion ?
g[ht.
GR EEN:
I r e a lly d o n ' t, it ranges, 11 12 like I said, there a r 'e s eve ral ca shs.
s '
13 Q
A ll right, sir; M r.
- Tuckman, back to the 14 12 5 ton crane.
15 MR.
T U CKM AN:
- Okay, the cask is lif ted 16 and put into the area shown as the DECON Area.
It I7 is right in the center of the upper icit d r awin g,, o n tho I8 right side.
18 O
The 125 ton crane, would you describe its 20 c o nfi gu r atio n and path?
21 M R.
TU CKM AN:
If you look at FSAR Figur e
- 2
~
911-2, it shows you th e main cack h a nd lin g crane.
23 Q
I see, that identified as cark h a nd li n g crar.e.
94 and it shows cap.,
c a p a city,
125 tons?
25 MR.
TUCKMAN:
Richt.
evrov~... ora nociares. sr ~oryce irearm se vice, c==torre..xmrw camou.
Direct 86
- Tuckmen, Snow, Groon 1
Q The main branch of that crane travels in 2
an e a s t-w e s t direction, which the t r olle y is in the 3
north-south di r e c tio n ?
I 4
The bridge are those, the r a il s on which 5
the t r olle y travels (in dic atin g) ?
6 MR.
T li C K M A N :
- Yes, it is the r ails on 7
which it travels.
8 Q
A ll right, with reference to the fi g u r e that appears in the left top f i g u r e' ' w h i c h appears at 9
10 9.1.1-1, wha t. is the range of m ove m e nt of the load supported b[the 11 125 ton crane?
12 MR.
TU CKM AN:
On Figure 9.1.2-3 it show s 4 '
13 the e a s t-we s t stop of the c a s k ha ndlin g crane 14 (indic a tin g) there.
15 I will add a c o r r e c tio n to this d r awin g.
16 The r ail s a c tu ally do not, over further in the west II dir e c tio n where the stop is in s talle d--
18 Q
The r ails extend over the Spent Fuel Storag e 19 Racks and the Spent Fuel Pool?
i 90 M R.
TU CKM AN:
- Yes, and the stop will be 21 in s t alle d where shown.
22 were the r a il s extended beyond the Q
Why 23 li mi t shown in that figure ?
(
24 MR.
GREEN:
Mike G r e e n; it was put in 25 there for c o n s truc tion purposes and for in s t alla tion EVELTN DE RGE R ASSOCIATE S, STENOTYPE REPOsrTaNG EERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUMA e
-+,
n
, ~ -, -
Direct 87
- Tuckmnn, Snow, Grosa 1
of the gpent fuel racks and to the pool.
2 I might add that those r ail s are up there, 3
but they cannot be accessed by the 125 ton, cask 4
h an d lin g crane af te r the stops are in c t alle d.
5 Q
D e s c rib e please th e stop s that you are 6
referring to that
'e i t h e r have been added or will be 7
added to those rails.
8 MR.
GREEN:
The stops are f ab ric ate d out 9
of carbon steel, woven up s e 'c',t i o n s.
10 Q
How are the y in s talled on th e rails ?
11 KfR.
GR EE N:
They
- r. r e either bolted to th e 12 r a il s or they are welded to it, I don't know at this 13 ti m e.
14 Q
Are they in s t all e d at this time ?
15 MR.
GREEN:
- Yes, sir.
16 MR.
.T U C K M A N :
T h ey a r e in stalled at the 17 far end of the r ail now, and they will be moved for-18 ward and b olt e d in place.
19 Q
So the stops in place now will a ll o w the 20,125 ton crane to roll over the top of the fuel pool?
21 MR.
GREEN:
- Yes, as it is now in s t alle d; 22 it will be m ove d back to the lo c a tio n shown in Figure 23 9.I-2.3.
24 Q
What is the north-south range of m ove me nt 3
of the 125 ton crane?
EVELYN S ERG ER ASSOCIATES, STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE, CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
Tuckman, Snow, Groen Direct 88 1
MR.
If you lo o k on Figure 2
9.1.1-1,
- again, the fir s t fi g u r e,
the upper lef t shows 3
th e rail for that crane.
4 They are e s s entially to the north-s outh 5 walls of the New Fuel B u lldin g c olum n, Line 48 to 6
51.
7 Q
The r ail s and stops as now in s ta lle d then 8
would allow the 125 ton crane and its load to range 9
all above the Spent Fuel P o o l' ', a s w ell as the bay, the 10 r ec eivin g bay, and the D e c on ta min a tion Area?
11
}dh.
T U C K M A N :
- Yes, what you pointed to 12 is not the Spent Fuel Pool; it is New Fuel Storage.
(
13 Q
Where in this c onfigu r ation ?
14 (Mr.
Tuckman indicated the 15 desired inf or mation to Mr. Guild. )
16 17 BY h2 R.
GUILD:
~~:
18 Q
On this side, all right.
The cask is raise i 19 then in the bay?
20 MR.
TU CKM AN:
The cask is raised in the 21 bay and placed in the Decontamination Area, which is 22 the fir s t opening that you see.
23 Q
Now how m m.n y personnel and which 24 p e r s o nn el th at you have id e n tifie d before would be 25 involved in this lift and the o p e r ation s you have
.m,~...an a.ssociates. sr=~orvre asromaa semer. c=a;ons ao m c"ou"*
T u c km an,
- Snow, Groon Direct 89 1
d e s c rib e d so f ar ?
2 M R.
TU CKM AN:
O pe ration s personnel 3
would do that.
4 Q
Id e ntif y who those were.
5 MR.
TUCKMAN:
Nuclear E qu i p rn e n t 6
O p e ra t o r s would operate the cask h a n dlin g crane to 7
move th e cask from th e truck to the Decontamination 8
A r e a.
9 Q
Who is r e s p o n s i b l e ',f o r rigging the crane 10 on the cask?
dh.
T U C K M A N :
The O p e r a tio n s personnel.
11 12 Q
Who of that--
^
13 M R.
TU CKM AN:
The people that actually 14 do the wo rk ar A the N u c l e a. r Equipment O p e r'a t o r s unde r 15 the direction of the Fuel H a ndlin g Supervisor.
16 Q
One person is rigging the cask?
j 17 MR.
TUCKMAN:
No, two.
2 18 Q
What work does each of them perf o rm ?
i l
19 MR.
TU CKM AN:
It would most likely be i
20 the Nuclea r E qu ipm e nt Operator and the M aint enanc e 21 person to af fix the c lin g to the cask handle, and 22 there would be another person o p e r atin g the crane.
23 Q
With the supervisor observing?
24 MR.
Yes.
25 Q
The cask is lif t e d fir s t and then moved ?
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES STEh0 TYPE REPORTING SENysCE CHARLOTTE NORTN CAROUNA
T uckmca, Snow, Groon Diroct go 1
M R.
TUrKMAN:
To the Decontamination 2
A r e a.
3 Q
And lowe r ed into the D e c onta min a tio n Pit?
4 M R.
TU CKM A N:
Yee.
5 Q
W ha* happens th e n ?
6 M R.
T U.C K M A N :
Once it is in the Decon.
7 tamination Pit, th e cask is fill e d with wa t e r.
8 Q
The cask is filled with wa te r ?
9 MR.
TUCKMAN:
Y'ei e.
casks are shipped 10 dry with H e liu m atm o s phe r e.
The cask vent is 11 connected to the Spent Fuel Pool ventilation s y s t e m.
12 The fill line f rom out of the S p e nt Fuel i
13 c o o lin g or d emin er aliz ed water is connected to the 14 cask.
15 W at e r dis pla c e s the H e lium which goes out 16 to the Spent Fuel Po ol ventilation system until the 17 cask is fill e d with wat e r.
18 Q
A ll right, stopping there and going back, 19 how is the c a s k fille d with water ?
20 MR.
'T U C KM A N:
A hose would run from the 21 S p ent Fuel c o o lin g or d e mi n e r a li z e d water to the cask.
22 Q
What is the connection on the caek with the 23.lh o s e s ?
24 N. R.
TU CKM AN:
Hose c o n n e c t i o r..
25 Q
If you would describe it.
e mv~.......soci.v s. sra orre..oni~a sc.vics. c,. ym. om c..ou~ s
- Tuchman, Snow, Groon Diroct 91 1
MR.
T U C K 2/. A N :
It has been a long time
(.,
2 since I' v e looked at it.
3 Q
To t h.e beet of your knowledge.
4 MR.
TU CKM AN:
More than likely with 5
disconnect fittin g s.
6 Q
What is a disconnect fittin g ?
7 M R.
T UCKM AN:
You plug it in.
8 Q
Snap fit tin g ?
9 MR.
S'o m e t h i n g like that.
10 Q
What kind of hose?
11 hl'E.
TUCKM AN:
Rubbe r ho s e.
12 Q
Garden hose?
f 13 MR.
T U CKM A N:
Ho p ef ully :a little better 14
- grade, but s o m e thin g s imila r.
15 Q
Snap fit tin g, do you need to open a valve ?
16 M R.
TUCKMAN:
Yes.
17 Q
Is the valve accessible on the outside of
~:.
18 th e cask?
19 M R.
TU CKM AN:
- Yes, it is.
20 Q
No other equipment or features of th e caek 21 have to be handled in order to snap the hose onto the 22 valve ?
23
- h. R.
T U C K M A N :
No.
6
\\
24 Q
What kind of valve is opened?
25 M R.
TU CKM AN:
It is a manual valve.
emv~.a cia.ssociaras. sta~orres asaoarmo semer. cua yorra. ~om c4=ou~a
T u c k m r. r..
Snow.
G rann DLroct 92 1
Q Gate valv e ?
2 MR.
TUCKMAN:
I don't know the s pe cific 3
valve in use on that cask.
4 Q
Does it require a wrench to do it ?
5
,g R,
TU CKMAN:
I can't answer that one.
6 g
po, i t'.v a r y from cask to cask?
7 MR.
I would imagine it would, 8
but I do n' t recall.
9 Q
A nd the other end 'of the hose is connected 10 to what ?
p..
.?.;
11 gg.
TUCKMAN:
T o the Spent Fuel Pool 12 v e ntilatio n --I' m sorry--this hose.
13 Q
The water hose?
14 MR.
T U C KM AN:
Eith e r the Spent Fuel 15 Po'l c o olin g s y s te m or to the
'd e min e r a li z e d wate r 16 c onn e c tio n.
17 Q
W ould it draw w a.t e r that would circulate I8 through the S p ent Fuel Pool?
19 MR.
It is water on the dis char ge 20 of the Spent Fuel Pool pump.
21 Q
It has been filt e r e d down there ?
22 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Yes.
s p e c'i fi c valve or water source 23 Q
Is there a i
th at is located, and where is it loc ated that you woul d 24 25 m ak e this c onn e ction to ?
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SE RVICE. CHARLOME. NORTH CAmouMA o
Tuckman, Snow, Green '
Direct 93 1
MR.
TU CKM AN:
Both the d e min e r ali z e d an,i 2
Spent Fuel c o o li n g water have taps near the 3
D e c o nta mina tie n Pit.
4 It you look at Figure 912-2--
5 Q
Yes.
6 MR.
T U.C K M A N :
Both c onn e c tion s are 7
roughly between the lef thand side of the drawing 8
b etwe en c o l.u m n.s TT and SS on the upper p a r t. o f. t h e 9
d r e. w i n g.
10 Q
Does th at indicate it is valve pit ?
h[R.
TU CKM A N:
They are not in a 11
- pit, no.
12 Q
They ar e not shown on the drawing?
(.
13 MR.
TU CKM AN:
I see; they are b a s i c a lly c o o' in g lin e is her a 14 here (in di c a tin g).
The S p e nt Fuel l
15 and the d e min e raliz ed wate r is here (in di c a tin g ).
16 Q
Then another hose is connected where?
17 MR.
T U C KM AN:
Another hose is connected T.
18 from the cask vent to t h e' Spent Fuel Pool ventilation 19 s y s te m.
20 Q
The Spent Fuel Pool ventilation s y s t e m.
21 that is an air syetem?
22 M R.. TUCKMAN:
Yes.
23 Q
As opposed to a liquid systom?
k 94 MR.
TU CKM AN:
- Yes, a v e n til a ti o n system 25 Q
Where is the Spent Fuel Pool cask vent aveten ermon = associare s. srs=OTvre REPORTING sE RylCE. CMARLOTTE NORTM CAROUNA
Direct 94 Tuckman, Snow, G re en 1
located t ypic ally ?
k,.
2 MR.
TU CKMAN:
It is on the same drawing 3
on Figure 912-2 on the bottom of the d r s. vri n g in this 4
area (in di c a tin g).
T u c $c m a n,
5 Q
I'm talking about the cask, M r.
6 the cask, it s elf.
7 MR.
T UCKM AN:
It is on the hea'd of the 8
cask.
9 Q
Y ou mean at the to'.p of the cask in the 10 raised p o s ition ?
' 's.
T U C K M A N :
Yes.
11 M
12
,Q How is the vent c o nn e c tion made ?
?
s 13 M R.
TUCKMAN:
In a simila r manner as 14 the water c onn e c tion.
15 Q
It is a snap fitting ?
16 MR.
TUCKMAN:
I think so.
17 Q
Do you know what kind of valve is connecte d 7
18 to it?
19 M R.
T U CKM AN:
N o.
20 Q
Is it accessible on the outside of the cask 21 ht R.
T UCKM AN:
Yes.
22 Q
A nd a gain, you started to say the other 23 end of that hose is connec'ted--
24 MR.
TU CKM AN:
To the Spent Fu el Pool ventilation system which is on Figure 9.1. 2 - 2 in the 25 emr=
.e...... soc..res. sr.~orres asro vm. =viec. ca.3em. =om ca ou a
T u c kman, Snow.
G reen D!roct 95 1
low e r left corner.
2 There is a c o nn e c tio n to the ventilation 3
c ys tem.
4 Q
Wat e r displaces th e H elium ?
5
.MR.
TUCKMAN:
Yes.
6 Q
The H ailum is processed through the cool 7
vent system?
8 M R.
T U C KM A N:
Yes.
9 Q
Filt e r e d and d i s c h a'r g e d to th e atmos phere ?
10 MR.
T U CKM AN:
Yes.
11 Q
dikat happens when the cask is fille d th en ?
12 M R.
TU CKM AN:
Once the cask is fill e d 13 we unbolt th e head of the cask.
14 Q
Are the c on n e c tio n s still made; the hose 15 c on n e c ti o n s still in plac e ?
16 MR.
T UCKM AN:
No, they are disconnected l
17 before we unbolted it.
l 18 l.
Q You disconnected and clo s e d the valv e ?
l 19 MR.
T U CKM AN:
That's correct, and unbolt 20 the head from the cask.
i 21 Q
Now where is the cask and what kind of 1
22 l
e nvir o nm e nt is the cask at the point where the head l
l 23 b olt s are unbolted?
24 l
MR.
TU CKMAN:
In the De c ont amination 25 P it in a v e r tic al p o s itio n still connected to the crane 1
I
- Tuckman, Snow, G reen Direct 96 l
1 Q
A ll right, is there wat er in the D e c o nt a mi-2 n a ti o n Pit ?
3 M R.
N o.
4 Q
How many bolts are there on t h e' ' head of 5
the cask?
6 MR.
TO CKMAN:
I don't know.
7 O
What kind of equipment is used to unbolt 8
those bolt s ?
9 MR.
N.'rench.
10 Q
. Standard wrench?
11 hiR.
T U CKM AN:
S o m e what diff e r e n t than 12 standard.
^l, 13 Q
Is it a unique decign for this purpose?
14 M R.
TUCKMAN:
Yes, it is.
15 Q
C an you d e s c rib e it?
16 ER.
TUCKM AN:
I r cally co u ld n' t now.
17 Q
Is it a manual wrench or p o w e r e d,. w r e n c h ?
,~
18 M R.
TU CKM AN:
I can't answer that for l
19 sure.
20 MR.
GUILD:
Any other g entle m en, 21 please volunteer.
22 MR.
GREEN:
I don't know,
.I.r e a lly 23 d o n ' t.
f 24 MR.
SNOW:
(Shook his head n e g a tiv el y.)
l 25
...u
.........oei.re...r.aervre aero riaa. avic. caa wire. ao m caaoua^
Tuckman, Snow, G reon Dir ec t 97 1
Q What type b olt s are we t alkin g ab o u t,. s m al:
2 b olt s, large bolts; talking about five, talking about 3
twenty ?
4 G iv e me an approximation if you don't 5
know the s p e c ifi c answer.
6 MR.
TUCKMAN:
There is a lot, I,would 7
guess more than a dozen; you are talking about 8
s ub s tantial bolting.
i n c h 'd,n diame t e r ?
9 Q
More than an 10 MR.
TUCKMAN:
I c ould n' t answer that.
11 Q
WTr o performs the unbolting ?
12 M R.
T U CKM AN:
M aint e nan c e personnel.
.,I 13 Q
The one, th e mechanic w hi c h you indicated 14 e arli e r ?
15 MR.
T U CKM AN:
Yes.
16 Q
Is the mechanic shielded f rom the cask?
17 M R.
T U CKM AN:
N o.
18 Q
How does the mechanic p hy s i c a lly r emove 19 the bolt s ?
20 MR.
TU CKMAN:
There is a grating he 21 s tand s on which is a p p r o xima t ely the height of the 22 cask head.
23 Q
Adjacent to i t ?
j 24 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Surrounding it, and the 25 bolt is r e mo ve d.
. m.................. m ~.... - ~... -.c~. 7 m..~ ~ c - ~.
- Tuckman, Snow, Greon Direct 98 1
Q Where are the bolts placed when they are 2
removed?
3 MR.
TUCKMAN:
I don't know.
Our pro-4
- cedure, I may add, the procedure for each cask is 5
s om ewhat diff e r e nt, s p e c ifi c a lly on bolting patterns 6
and types of tools.to be used.
7 It is as much as, I don't know which cask I
8 we would use.
I'm n ot f amilia r with the d e t ail s.
9 Q
Is it fair to say a t' M c Guir e th e r e are 10 procedures within and in pince for each cask used at f a c ilityh 11 that 12 MR.
T U CKMA N:
Yes.
(
13 Q
'A n d they d e t ail the s p e cific procedures?
'14 MR.
TU CKM AN:
That's correct.
15 Q
And they are similar to the procedures in 16 this respect that would be finally in place at Catawba
?
17 MR.
TUCKMAN:
I expect th a t 's correct.
T.
18 Q
Now describe th e job r e quir e m ent s, 19 qualific a tion s,
of the individual or individuals who 20 will pe r f o r m the f un c tio n s you have just described, 21 r em oving the bolts.
22 MR.
TUCKMAN:
I can't tell you the 23
~
~
~ individual.
qu alific a tio n s of that p a r ticula r
(
24 Q
Have those been e s tablis he d ?
25 MR.
TU CKMAN:
Not at Catawba, I'm sure EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERvtCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 99 I
they are at McGuire.
2 O
You are just not f amilia r enough?
3 MR.
TUCKMAN:
No.
4 O
Will there be special training?
5 MR.
T U CKM A N:
Yes.
6 Q
Do you'know what that special training will 7
consist of?
8 MR.
TU CKMA N:
Just training of the task 9
to be done.
10 Q
Is there any curricula,
- text, written 11 t r ainin g m at e rials for this task?
12 MR TL CKM A N:
Do they exist now?
f s
13 Q
Yes.
14 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Not at C a ta wb a.
15 Q
Are there training materials at M cGuir e 16 that will r e fle c t what t r ainin g m ate rials will be used 17 at C atawb a ?
18 MR.
TU CKM AN:
I would i ma gin e s o, b ut I' m 19 not f a milia r with it.
20 Q
/.11 right, the b olt s are ph y s ic ally removed ?
21
( Wh e r eu p o n, Mr.
Tu ckman nodded 22 his head af firma tively. )
23 O
And next?
24 hi R,
TU CKM AN:
Next the cask is lif t e d M
again and placed in a shallow end of the cask area.
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERvtCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA e
-~
- Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 100 1
1 Look on Figure 912-2, and you will see that the thin g
(
2
- says,
"... fl a t f orm in the lower half of the area."
3 (Indicating).
4 O
The cask is placed in that location ?
It ha<1 5
f o rm e rly been in the D e conta minatio n A rea ?
6 MR.
T U CKMAN:
T h a t 's correct.
7 Q
Lif t ed and set down again on that pla tf orm ?
8 MR.
T U C K h1 A N :
T h at's correct.
easterky dir e c tion--no, 9
Q M oved in an 10 wes te rly dir ec tion ?
11 MR.
T U C K h1 A N :
Not we s t e rly di r e c ti on.
12 North is at the bottom of this fi gu r e, yes.
13 Q
What is between the D e c o n ta min a tio n Area 14 and.the platfo rm ?
15 h: R,
TUCKMAN:
A w a 11, 16 Q
W ould you describe it ?
17 ht R.
TE CKM AN:
It is made out of concrete 18 it is about six feet.
19 MR.
GR EEN:
That is a four foot, reinforc ed 20 concrete wall s e pa r atin g the DECON A r e a. f rom the 21 Cask Pit Area.
99 Q
I direct your a t t e n ti o n to Figure 9.1.2-4;
~~
23 is thia the w a ll that would be to the left of the Caek 04
~
Area in that dia gr am ?
25 MR.
TE CKM A N:
Yes.
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING SERVICE, CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow, G roon Direct 101 1
Q It is lowe red onto the pla tf o rm ?
2 MR.
TU CKM A N:
At this point the head is 3
removed f rom the caek.
4 O
Is it under wate r ?
5 MR.
Yes.
6 Q
What is' the depth of the water in the area 7
where the cask is lowe r e d ?
8 MR.
TU CKM AN:
The elevation of the plat-9 form is 583.
10 N R.
GREEN:
The a p p r o xim a t e depth of the 11 water is 15 ~~ feet at the upper pla tf o rm level.
12 Q
How much water then is above the top of 13 the cask without the cask lid removed, before the 14 cask lid is r e mo v e d, a pp r oxima t ely ?
15 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Depends on the s p e c ific 16 cask.
17 Q
We show a cask drop elevation at seven 18 f e et; wo ul d that protrude out of the water if that wer e, 19 in fact, the true dimen sions ?
20 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Yes.
21 MR.
GREEN:
The cask that is depicted in 22 the cask drop ele vatio n, as I said, is the maximum 23 dim e n sio n, the ma ximu m si=e of any c a's k-t h a t we 24 could find or id e n tif y at that tim e.
25 It may be,
- indeed, the cask that would be EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 102 1
used for cask transfers.
2 Q
If you used the cask shown in that cask 3
group ele v a tio n, it would be unshielded if it were 4
lowered onto that platf orm ?
5 MR.
T L C K h: A N : Yes, sir.
6 Q
So yo u 'would want to use a s m alle r cask 7
or lower platf o r m or higher wate r ?
8 MR.
TUCKMAN:
W e ll, the water in the 9
- cask, it s e lf, would shield i t.' -
It wouldn't need to be 10 directly over the top of that cask.
11 Q
So you are a s suming a s m a ll e r cask and I 12 may have m i. s s e.d an e a r li e r answer, but how much
(
13 water is intended to be above the c a s k lid before the 14 lid is r emo ved ?
15
- h. R.
TU CKMAN:
I don't b e li e v e th e r e is on it.
s pe cific ation 16 a
17 Q
Can you e s tim at e how much will be above 18 the lid ?
19 hi R.
TU CKM AN:
A foot or so of water.
20 Q
That is above the to p of the li d before the 21 lid is r emoved ?
22 h: R.
TU CKM AN:
Yes.
23 Q
II o w t hi c k ie the lid a pp roximat ely,
f 24 ty pic ally ?
25 MR.
GREEN:
I d o n' t kno w.
EVELYN SERGE R ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
T uc km a n,
- Snow, Green Direct 103 1
Q A foot or more?
2
- k. R.
GREEN:
I couldn't tell you.
3 Q
How are the bolt s removed f rom the lid 4
before the cask is moved into the platf o r m ?
5 U. R.
TU CKM AN:
I'm almost certain they 6
are--
7 Q
Not c e r tain ?
8 MR.
TUCKM AN:
Not 100 percent c e r tain.
9 Q
If they are not, how are the b olt s removed 10 once the cask has been lowered onto th e pla tf o r m ?
11 g'R.
TU CKM AN:
If they were not removed 12 they would come off with the head, pic k up th e head
(
13 and bolts would come with them.
14 Q
The b olt s are free if they are still on th e 15 cask?
16
.MR.
TU CKM AN:
They are not bolte d.,
I 17 r eally can't remember the procedure.
18 Q
P h y sically then, how is the lid removed 19 f r om the cask on the platf or m ?
20 MR.
TU CKM AN:
The lif tin g fixtu r e irom 21 the cask is disconnected.
22 Q
F rom the lif tin g lugs?
23 In R.
T U CKN AN:
Yes.
24 l
Q A ll right.
25 F. R.
TU CKM AN:
We have to disconnect the EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE PEPORTING SERYlCE. CNAECTTE. peORTM CAauOuMA
Direct 104
- Tuckman, Snow, Green I
lif ting fixtu r e to put the extended lif tin g fi xtu r e,
to
(>
2 move the cask to the deep end.
3 The head is grasped by th e fuel crane and 4
li f t e d off.
5 Q
The fuel crane is the same 125 ton crane speaking'of?
6 we were 7
MR.
TU CKM AN:
- Yes, I think the y used the 8
a uxilia r y hoist on that; that is a ten ton crane.
9 Q
The a u xili a r y h o i s t' ' i s fixe d to the head?
10 MR.
TU CKM AN:
- Yes, it has a separate 11 bridge and t r oll e y that extends to the Spent Fuel Pool 12 handling crane, s
13 Q
Show me where this erane is that you are 14 r ef e rrin g to.
15 M R.
TU CK M AN:
It hangs off the bottom of 16 the 125 ton crane on Figure 9.23, but it is not shown 17 Q
It is referred to as what a gain ?
18 MR.
T U CKMAN:
Ten ton, au xilia r y hoist.
19 Q
A uxilia r y hois t ?
20 MR.
TU CKM AN:
(The Witne s s nodded his 21 head a f fir ma tively. )
22 Q
And is its range the same as the range we 23 have d e a c rib e d e a r lie r for the 12 5 t o n crane now and 94 to be used when the f acility is operational?
25 ER.
GREEN:
It has a somewhat dif f e r ent EVELYN BERGER ASSOC 8ATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
1 T uc kman,
- Snow, G reen Direct 105 1
range on
.1.1 - 1 in the upper icithand corner; there is 2
a shaded area which depicts the range of th e main 3
- hook, your fiv e ton capacity hook and ten ton auxiliar y 4
center lin e that we are speaking o f.
5 As you can see on the east end it can 6
extend over the New Fuel Storage Area.
On the weat 7
end it has t 'h e s imila r range of t h e' main hook.
8 Q
What is the range for this a uxilia r y hoist 9
over the Spent Fuel Pool?
10 MR.
GREEN:
It cannot reach over the 11 S pent Fuel Pool.
12 Q
Can it reach over there now ?
(~
13 MR.
GR EE N:
Now it can; in o pe r a tion it 14 c ould n ' t bec~ause the stops prohibit m o vin g of that.
15 Q
Same stops you m e ntion e d ea rlie r ?
16 MR.
GREEN:
- Yes, as I said, it is connected 17 to the main 125 ton crane a s s embly.
18 Q
Do I understand th at the range of the ten 19 ton hoist is li mit e d
- r. n d s m a lle r ?
20 MR.
GREEN:
- Yes, on the Spent Fuel Pool 21 that is true.
22 Q
Why is it greater on the other end thouEh.
~
23 if gg 13 7 24 M R.
GR EEN:
I don't know if I follow you.
25 Q
I m ean is it an accurate statement that the EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROLINA
T u c km an,
- Snow, G reen Direct 106 I
range of the ten ton hoist is limited to the range of 2
the one hundred twenty-five ton holot f rom whi c h. it --
3 MR.
GREEN:
The range of the ten ton 4
hoist is limited by the same stops that li mi t the 5
one hundred twenty-five ton hoist.
6 The exact dim en sion s of the center line of 7
the au xili a r y hoist are not id e n ti c a l to the dime n sio n r s s
8 of the main hoist.
9 Q
Can the auxiliary hoist extend beyond the 10 range of the 125 ton hoist?
11 h: R.
GREEN:
Yes.
12 Q
Ple a s e help m e unde r s tand, what is that i
13 I' m tr yin g to focu s on?
14 MR.
G RE EN:
It cannot get over the Spent 15 Fuel Pool level, 16 Q
On the east side, the side over the new 17 fuel it can go fu rthe r ?
18 h1 R.
GREEN:
- Yes, sir; that is the hoist 19-ured to load new fuel.
l 20
(
Q Just as g e om etr y, how is the range, the 21 larger range possible over the new fuel but not over 22 the spent fu el ?
23
- h. R.
GR EEN:
The m ain, 125 ton a c r embly i
94 has a larger d ru m, la r g e r windings, everything els e
~
25 f r om a stop to the center lin e of a m ain, it ta ke s up EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STEh0 TYPE REPORTING SERVICE CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow, G reen Direct 107 1
more epace than it would for a 10 ton boirt.
2 You can get closer to your end point, your 3
- stop, w it h a s m a ll e r h o l e; t.
4 O
The cask 11 d then is r emo ved with the 5
a uxili a r y hois t ?
6 M R.
TU CKM AN:
Yes.
7 Q
W he re is it put?
8 MR.
T U CKM AN:
I don't think we have--do 9
we have a designated s to r a g ee pot for it?
10 N R.
GREEN:
It is not shown.
11 1.[R.
T U CKM AN:
I'm not sure what the 12 designated storage location for that is.
(
13 Q
What are the po s sibilitie s ?
14 ER.
TUCKMAN:
Back on the s la b north of 15 the DECON Area on Figure 9.2-2 (indicating).
16 Q
Yes.
- Now, at this point is the cask on th e 17 platform that is indicated as " platf o rm" ?
18 MR.
TU CKMAN:
Yes.
19 Q
What is th e cask area that is just above 20 thr.t on this figu r e ?
21 MR.
TU CKM AN:
That is a s olid platf o rm.
22 T hi s is a shallow depth and a deeper depth (indicatin d.
23 Q
I see, I understand.
All rig ht,
- sir, so it 24 is in the s h a llo w depth, whic h is in the lower of tho ne 25 two.
EVELYN SEPGER ASSOCIATES, STENOTTPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
- Tuchman, Snow, Green Direct 106 1
MR.
T U CKM AN:
The lower in the drawing.
/
2 the bottom of the d r a win g.
3 MR.
GR EEN:
That is 583 plus 6 elevation.
4 Q
All right, ths.t is where the cask sets?
5 MR.
TU CKM A N:
That's right.
6 Q
We have the lid removed, then what?
7 MR.
TUCKMAN:
We attach the long lif tin g 8 fixtu r e to the cask.
9 Q
That is what you 'c'a l l the extended li f tin g 10 fixture ?
11
?v. R.
TUCKMAN:
Yes.
12 Q
What is its c o n fi g u r ation; describe it ?
13 MR.
It is a s li c k, ve rtic al 14 spreaders.
15 Q
A nd it extends further down th e cable ?
16 MR.
GR E EN:
It a llo w s a greater distance 17 between th e center lin e of the rr. a i n hook and the cash 18 It is th e r eb y not putting as much of th e e a s ting cable 19 into the water.
20 MR.
TU CKM AN:
It ba eically allows you to 21 low e r the casks to a deeper depth without s u bm e rgin g 22 t he crane into the fuel pool area.
23 Q
T hen what?
24 MR.
TU CKM A N:
The cask is sicked up and 25 p laced into the ?co,ce r oart of the Cark H a ndling A r e a.
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHAMLCrTTE NORTM CAROUNA
i Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 109 1
Q By " picked up"?
\\
2 M R.
TU CKM AN:
By the 12 5 ton crane.
3 Q
How much is the cark raised?
4 MR.
TUCKMAN:
Just a few inches.
5 Q
There is very little m a r gin for error here 6
is there not?
I' mean you only have a foot or two 7
of water above the top of the cask.
8 MR.
TU CKM AN:
It is not that critical 9
because there will be nobody'in that particular area 10 when you are lif tin g it.
~
11 Y'o u wouldn't wa nt to lift it out of the wate r; 12 you would lift it a few inches.
13 Q
What procedures or fixtu r e s, f acilitie s,
14 insure that the cask is not lif t ed out of the water 15 with the head remo ved ?
16 M R.
T U C KM AN:
Your procedures would 17 specify you would probably need to check the M cG uire l
18 procedures, but they would s p e:if y to lift this cask a 19 few inches.
20 Q
It is an a d minis tr ativ e procedure?
21 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Yes.
22 Q
Is there a physical ba rrie r or stop or 23 fi::tu r e' tha t would p r e ve nt' th e crane operator f rom i
l 24 r ai s in 5 the uncapped cask out of the wate r ?
25 MR.
TU CKM AN:
The hoict can only go so j
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROuMA l
Tuckman, Snow, Groon Diroct 11 0 1
high because the lif tin g fixtu r e, the extended lif tin g 2
fix tu r e, is relatively long so the crane can physicall y 3
o nly go so far; but I don't have any idea what the 4
dim e n s io n is right now.
5 M R.
GREEN:
T his is M ik e Green again, 6
I don't know that dim en s io n, but the extended lif t e r 7
li mit s the heights you can lift this cask.
8 Q
Such that it cannot be p hy s ic ally raised 8
above the surface of the w a t e 'r ?
10 MR.
GREEN:
I don't know that elevation, II but it is limit e d.
12 O
Is that a design feature of the extending I3 li f tin g fixtu r e ?
I4 MR.
GREEN:
One of the design f e atu r e s.
15 Q
So you b e lie ve that the de sign feature 16 p r e ve nt s the cask with lid removed from being raised I7 above the water le vel at this same--
I8 MR.
TU CKM AN:
I don't know that, I would I8 presume that.
20 Q
To the best of your knowledge then, it is 91 an ad mini s t r a tiv e procedure that limi t s this function?
~
22 MR.
T U CKM AN:
I would have to say yes.
23 as far as a c tu ally breaking the surface of the water.
t i
s 24 Q
D e s c ribe the c o nfi gu r a tio n of the plat f o rm 05 and the b dt o m of the cask area over which the cask
~
l EVELTN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. PeORTH CAROUNA 1
Direct 111
- Tuckman, Snow, Groen 1
mu s t transverse in order to be lowered i n t o 'th e' deep er 2
p o r tio n.
3 MR.
TU CKM AN:
It is a smooth, horiaontal 4
surface.
~
5 Q
1s there a lip or barrier of any s o rt that 6
the bottom must b 'e raised above in order to range to 7
the deeper area?
8 MR.
No.
9 Q
How much v e r ti c a l' 'li f t in g then is r e q u'i r e d,
10 if any, in order to transverse the cack into the 11 deeper areaf 12 M R.
TU CKM AN:
That is vir tually a matter
(__
13 of inches.
14 Q
Then proceed, what happens then ?
15 MR.
TUCKM AN:
The cask is moved over 16 to the deep end or it'is lowered to the bottom.
17 Q
A nd a p p r o xim a te ly how much wate r then 18 would be above the top of the cask?
19 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Roughly 40 feet, not over 1
20 the top, I'm sorry--
21 Q
Forty feet deep total?
22 l
k R.
TU CKM AN:
- Yes, excluding the height 23 of the cask.
t 24 Q
A nd a p p r o xi m a t ely how much above the top 25 of the cask?
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STEhCTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROL #NA
- Tuckman, Snow, Groen Direct 11 2 1
7 y",
1 MR.
GREEN:
A pp r o xi ma te ly 25 feet on top
(.
2 of the c a s k.
3 Q
'A g a i n,
depending upon the a c tual c o n fi g u -
4 ration of the cask?
5 h R.
GREEN:
- Yes, sir.
6 Q
N ext ?
7 MR.
T U CKM AN:
Next the cask lif tin g 8
adapter is disconnected and removed.
9 Q
How is it r e m o v e d ?'
10 h' R.
TL CKM AN:
I'm not sure of the 11 s pe cific c o nfig u r ation of that p a r ticula r tool, how it 12 is dis co nn e c te d.
(-
13 Q
It is remotely done, does somebody need to 14 use some kind of tool that is lowered into the pool 15 and lo w e r e d into the water and a tta ch e s --
16 MR.
TU CKM AN:
No, I b e li e v e it is part 17 of the lif t in g fix tu r e, it s e lf.
18 Q
A ll right, next.
19 MR.
T U CKM A N:
One of th e R e e pon s e s to 20 the Interrogatories, Numbe r Eight, indicated that the 21 weirgate is in place whenever the cask is handled in 22 reference to s ec tion s in the FSAR to that e ff e c t.
23 On r e vi e w of that r e c e n tly we r e alis e d the i
24
- error, FSAR error, as our A nswe r is we would not 25 have that weireate in place durine the n o r m al cask EvEevN.ERGER ASSOCIATES. STENonPE REPORTING SERvtCE. CMA8tLOTTE. SuORTM CAROUNA
Tuckman.
- Snow, Groen Direct 11 3 1
h a n dli n g e v olu tion s.
7 s.
2 Q
Why not?
3
- h. B.
Tl CKM AN:
There ir no purpose.
4 Q
What is the purpose of the weir gat e ?
5 MR.
TL CKM AN:
To dewate r the Cask 6
H andlin g A rea for h.' a i n t e n a n c e.
7 Q
The Cask H a n d li n g Area i s what we are 8
t alkin g about now, both th e shallow and the deep are 9
c all e d the Cask H a n d li n g A r e a' ?
10
.NR.
TU CKM AN:
That's correet.
~
11 Q
Indicate the location of the w eir g a t e on 12 Figure 9.1-2.2.
(
13 M R.
TU CKM A N:
It is on the top side of 14 the d r a win g there.
15 Q
A ll right, I want to make reference to that 16 Interrogatory Answer again, if we c o uld correct that 17 for the Record.
18 MR.
CARR:
Number Eight on Page Te n
19 of our R e sponse s of October 9.
20 MR.
GUILD:
I don't have mine handy, 21 The weirgate la not no r mally in place?
l 22 MR.
TU CKM A N:
T h a t 's
- correct, it is 23 n ot.
e' 24 3
BY NR.
GUILD:
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES, STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA o
- Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 114 1
Q Where is it located?
N 2
LR.
TL CKM AN:
The weir g at e is n o r m ally 3
etored on the east wall of the Cask H a nd lin g Area.
4 Q
Is it then a free flow of water f rom the 5
- cask, from the Spent Fuel Storage Pool through the 6
opening where the' weir gate would be located and into 7
the Cask H a ndlin g Area?
8 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Yes.
9 Q
And the surface w a't e r level is the same in 10 both areas?
11 LR.
TU CKM AN:
That's correct.
12 Q
A ll right now, if you would--
(
13 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Once the cask is in the 14 bottom of the Cask H a n dlin g Area, the next e volu tio n 15 is to pi c k the fuel a s s embly up and store it.
16 We u tili z e the fuel h a n dli n g crane, which 17 is the m o va ble crane shown on Figure 912-2, and in 18 the center of the fuel pool (indicating).
19 T hat crane is a li g n e d to go through the 20 weir gate opening and to po s itio n it s e lf over the top 21 of the fuel a s s e mbly.
22 The cable is lowe r e d, fuel a s s embly is 23 grappled and r ai s e d up into the fuel h a n d li n g m a s t.
I 24 Once it is up, it is transferred back through the w ei r-25 gate o p e ni n g to v hicheve r fu el lo c a tion we decided to EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
~
=
Direct 115 Tuckman, Snow, Green 1
store the fu el a s s embly in.
2 Q
A ll right, what is the minimum depth of 3
water above the top of the a s s embly at the top of the 4
fuel handling crane?
5 MR.
TUCKMAN:
T e chnic al s p e c i fi c t. t i o n s 6
require us to h a v'e 23 feet of water over the top of 7
the a s s embly in the spent fuel racks prior to handling 8
fuel,, and I don't know th e actual dimension of once 9
the as s e mbly is a c tu ally up in the ma s t, from there 10 to the top of the water.
- ~
11 Q
I am t r yi n g to follow the technical s p e cifi-12 cation that you ref er red to.
Is that depth above the
(
13 as s embly once they are stored?
14 MR.
TUCKMAN:
Right.
15 Q
T his a s s e mbly b ein g removed f rom the cash 16 will be higher than that?
17 MR.
T UCKM AN:
T h at 's correct.
18 Q
The water will be shallowe r?
19 MR.
TUCKM A N:
That's correct.
20 Q
Do you have an a p p r o xim a tio n of how 21 c ha llo w ?
22 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Twelve feet a pp r oxi ma t ely 23 Q
What procedures or fixtu r e s prevent the i
24 spent fuel a s s embly from being raised above the leve L
25 of the water ?
.mv~........sociares. srs~orree anroari~a scavice. c=Sorre. ~om c.=ou~.
- Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 116 1
f.! R.
TU CKM AN:
I think I' v e just mislead 7
(
2 you a little bit.
Can we start.over a g ain ?
3 Q
Sure.
4 MR.
TUCKM AN:
If we were picking up 5
Oconee fu el we would not use the m a s t, we would use 6
a B and W Spent l'uel H an dlin g Tool because th e fu e l 7
would not be compatible with the m a s t.
8 It is a manual tool which is suspended frorn 9
the east crane on the fuel ha sdling bridge.
10 Q
T hi s is more than one crane?
11 1,fR.
T U CKM AN:
There is a crane that ride s 12 on the east.
T hi s is the east, this is the
'w e s t rail, t'
13 and this is the east rail (in di c a tin g).
14 There are manual cranes that rid e in those 15 slots in addition to th e no r mal fuel h a n dlin g crane 16 used for n o r m al o p e r a tio n s.
17 Q
These are indicated as two ton, a uxilia r y 18 hoints on this fi gu r e (indic ating) ?
19 MR.
TU CKM AN:
That's correct.
I l
20 Q
By "m a nual tool," how do you mean?
21 1iR.
TU CKM AN:
It is a l o n g -h a n d l e d tool 22 which is suspended from the crane with a spring scal e 23 on it and tha t a s e em bly or thct lon g -ha ndle d tool 24 nozzle of the fuel once it is set in plac e grabs the top 25 and is locked from above the water.
EVELYN SERGEfe ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERytCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
\\
T uc km an,
- Snow, Green Direct 117 1
There le a limitation on dietance of travel 2
of the crane and le n gth of the tool, which prohibits 3
you f rom drawing the tool beyond n o r m all y 12 feet 4
beyond the top of th e wa te r.
~-
5 Does that help any?
e Q
Yeah, how is the lif ting perf ormed ?
7 M R.
TUCKM AN:
With the controls on the 8
bridge.
9 Q
U sing a mechanicale-10 M R.
T U C KM AN:
It is an electrically 11 d riven hoisti 12 Q
The two ton, auxiliary hoist we are talking i
13 about?
14 MR.
T U CK MA N:
That's correct.
15 O
So the mechanical portion is simply the 16 lockin g and unlocking of the tool?
17 MR.
TU CKM AN:
It '. s what actually sets 18 on top and grabs the s haf t, the handle on the top, th e
19 latching m e c ha ni s m on the to p.
20 Q
But the lif tin g is pe rf orme d m e cha nic ally ?
21 MR.
TUCKMAN:
That's correct.
22 Q
And for M cGuir e you would use just the 23 fuel h a n dlin g --
24 MR.
TU CKM AN:
I would use the Westingho ues 25 Spent Fuel H a ndlin g Tool also.
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLEFTTE. NORTM CARouNA
Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 118 1
Q W ould it be cus pended f rom the au xilia r y
\\
2 hoist?
3 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Id e ntical.
4 Q
What is the fuel h a n dlin g crane?
5 M R.
TUCKM AN:
That it used for h an dlin g 6
of fuel within the' Spent Fu e l Pool.
It is a W e s tingho usc 7
type to be mo ve d from one location to another, or to 8
bring new fuel into the fuel poci or for t ra n s po rtin g 9
fuel to the Reactor Building.
10 Q
Those are the normal tools.
Why do you 11 use diff e r e nt tools?
12 MR.
TU CKM AN:
For the Oconee fu el s,
the
(
13 mast is not c o m pa tible with the Oconee fuel.
You us e
14 the Oconee special h a n dlin g tool.
15 To be p e r f e c tly honest, I' v e never thought 16 about moving W e s tin ghou s e fuel in--I'm not sure which 17 we w oul d use, the normal mas t or We s tinghou s e S p ent 18 Fuel H a ndlin g Tool.
19 Is m not sure.
20 Q
W ould i t, make a dif f e r e nc e ?
I don't think it would, but 22 I really haven't looked at We s tin ghou s e fuel.
l l
23 Q
Then t h.e a s cembly is placed in its d e s tin a-24 i
tion ?
25 MR.
T UCKM AN:
Storage lo c a tion.
l l
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTTPE REPORTING SERvlCE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA l
Direct 119 Tuckman, Snow, Green g-1 Q
What is the basis for determining th e 2
storage lo c a tion s for the non-C a tawba fuels in the 3
C at awba Fuel Pool?
4 MR.
T UCKM AN:
As far as the W e s tinghous e 5
fuel goes, after we get that on site, it is b a s ic ally 6
no r e s tric tion.
7 It could be stored in any l o c a tio n.
For th e 8
Oconee fu e l, we w ou ld have to put the spacer in to 9
s to r e an Oconee a s s embly.
10 Q
D e s.c r,ib e the spacer.
11 IdR.
TUCKM AN:
There is a de s c ription in 12 the FSAR,
- 9124, about the middle of the page, and I 13 guess in the Interrogatory Response we have describe d 14 it to you also.
15 Q
S e c tio n 9124 on Page 9.14-81-9.
16 MR.
GREEN:
T hi r d paragraph.
17 Q
Have the spacers been f abricated ?
18 MR.
SNOW:
No.
19 Q
Where would the spacers be located?
20 M R.
SNOW:
R e a lly no d e t e r min e d lo c a tio n 21 right now.
22 Q
Is the re anything s i g ni fi c a nt in terms of 23 safety to th e ar rang ement' of the Catawba and n on-C at a wS)
/
24 spent fuels within the pool?
25 Who was that that answered that qu e s tion ?
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERvlCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA r
e,-
,,,-r.-
e.
T u c km an.
- Snow, Green Direct 12 0 1
MR, SNOW:
Lowell S n ow.
2 Q
Mr.
- Snow, thank you.
So then what would 3
be the basis for d e t e r minin g ultimately where to put 4
which fuels ?
5 MR.
TUCKMAN:
Wherever it is convenient, 6
Q T ypic ally what is the basis for determining 7
where you locate spent fuels in say at M cGuir e ?
8 MR.
TU CKM AN:
I don't know at M cGuir e.
g e'n e r a ll y whether you star t 9
Q Can you tell me 10 at the far wall and fill back or is there any rhyme o r
11 rcason?
12 M R.
TUCKMAN:
There is no r equir e m e nt
(.-
13 where you store it for whateve r reason.
14 Q
How do you keep track of where fuel 15 a s s emblie s are sto red ?
16 6 MR.
TUCKMAN:
We have a record of wher e
17 the a s s e mblie s are stored, both on the visual s ta tu s 18 board and on a computer p ro g r am.
19 Q
Is that record s uf ficie ntly detailed to 20 id en tif y each s p e cific as sembly as to its origin and 21 age?
22 MR.
TU CKM AN:
Yes.
23 Q
Let me direct your attention to the p o r tion 24 of the process that you have described.
Mr.
Tuckman or the o th e r gentlemen, that relates to the transit 25 EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA a
'r
="
r
-v---
,,--,--,------,,r,--
Direct 121 T uc kman,
- Snow, Groon I
I r;
of the cas k from and to the cask lo adin g ar ea.
Do 1 2
understand c o r r e c tly that you have concluded that ther e 3
po s s ibility of a cask tip accident into the Spent is no 4
Fuel Fool?
5 MR.
GREEN:
T his is Mike Green; yes, tha t 6
is true.
7 Q
A g a in, with reference to the cask drop 8
e va lu a tio n, Figure 9.1.2-4, is that and the f o ll owin g 9
fi gu r e, 9.1.2-5, do those r e ll'e c t,
those figu r e s,
10 r e fle c t the analysis th at produces th at ?
11 dR.
GR EEN:
- Yes, those figur e s r efle c t 12 the two cask drops that could possibly end up in a
(
13 cask going into the Spent F u el Pool.
14 Q
Now just if you would, id e ntif y those two 15 postulated scenarios without d e tail s.
16 MR.
GREEN:
They are explained in the 17 FSAR g e n e r ally.
We look at two diff er ent cases, the 18 fi r s t one b e in g the cask b ein g carried by the cask 19 handling crane, t r a v e ls at the maximum horizontal 20
- velocity, 50 feet a minute, hittin g the stop a b r u p tly.
21 the cask s wingin g up and dis plac e m en t of 30 degrees 22 at that time p o s tula tin g the cable rigging snapping,
- breaking, and the cask f a l'li n g at that p oint v e r tic ally 23 24 and seeing where the cente r of g r a vity li e s.
25 The second case was the d r o p pin g of the EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. DeORTH CAROUNA
,.,-e-
~
r-p-
m
~ - - - - - -
w-a
Tuckman, Snow.
Groen Direct 122 1
cask further west of that wall that separates the fuel s
2 pool from the cask area such that a corner of that 3
cask im p a c t s on that wall and tends to want to flip 4
the cask over the adjacent wall.
5 A gain, by analysis of basic momentum 6
e qu ation s we c o u l'd show that it did not fall into the 7
Spent Fuel Pool.
8 Q
A ll right, what is the as sumed cask 9
c o nfi g u r a tio n that was used l'o' r those as repr es ented 10 on those two fi gu r e s --17 feet high by 8 foot diamete r 11 what s p e c ifi c cash is represented by that analy sis ?
12 MR.
GREEN:
I couldn't tell you that at
(
13 this ti me.
14 Q
Do I understand it to be a s p e cific cask?
15 MR.
GREEN:
It represents the largest 16 postulated ca s k that we c o u ld d e t e r mine.
17 Q
Is it the he avie s t cask?
18 MR.
GR EEN:
H e avie s t and largest.
19 Q
- Now, is it true th a t the center of g r a vit y 20 is represented in both of these diagrams as in the 21 geometric center of the elevations th e r e of the casks P
l I
22 MR.
GREEN:
Yes.
23 Q
Is that also t h e' case for all casks that 24 will be employed or have been employed by Duke ?
s 25 MR.
GREEN:
- Yes, the center of g r a vit y EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
T u c kman, Snow. G reen Dir ec t 123 1
is within a certain tolerance located at the center of 1
2 the cask.
3 Q
With or without the cack lid atta ched ?
4 MR.
GR EEN:
Yes.
5 Q
Does the center of gravity change?
6 M R.
GREEN:
It would n ' t appreciably 7
change with the head attached or not attached.
8 Obviously it would be raised s o m ewhat vertically with 9
the head in plac e.
10 Q
Can you give me an e s timate of the r ela tiv e 11 weight of t h'e head as compared to the cask body?
12 MR.
G R E EN:
I could not at this tim e.
(-
13 Q
T he total weight of the c a s k appr oximately t 14 MR.
TU CKMAN:
Twenty-five to forty tons, 15 depending.
16 Q
Might th e lid weigh a ton?
17 M R.
TU CKM AN:
I don't know.
18 MR.
GR EEN:
I couldn't t ell you.
l 19 Q
A nd it is your judgment that the removal 20 of the lid does not appreciably alte r the geometry of 21 the center of gravity loc ation ?
22 MR.
GREEN:
For'a cask drop a c cid e nt 23 in ve s ti g at ion, the head being in s t alle d on the cask is s
24 a more critical ca s e to look at.
25 R emoval of the head lowers the c ente r of
.my~...... ociares. svenorv a a own~a s==ica. ciwom. ao= caaoua^
T uc kman,
- Snow, G reen Direct 124 1
g r a vit y, causing it to fall back away from the Spent 2
Fuct P o ol.
3 Q
The cack represented in the two figur e s,
4 is that a cask with the lid on?
5 MR.
GREEN:
That represents a cask with 6
a lid head o n.
7 Q
What is the dim en s io n of the cask area and U
8 the Spent Fuel Iool area?
9 M R.
TUCKMAN:
T f2 a t is a th r e e-f o o t t h i c k, 10 cast concrete wall represented in Figure 2-5..
g y'e e,
sir; Figure 9125, how does that 11 12 particular c onfigur ation at C at awba diff e r from the 13 design configuration of the M cG uire Pool, if at a ll ?
14 MR.
GREEN:
The c o nfi gu r a tio n of that wal l 15 does not dif f e r.
The configuration of the adjoining 16 w all s separate the cask area from the DECON Pit.
17 Those walls are four feet lo we r than the 18 c o r r e s p on din g w a ll s at M cG uir e.
19 Q
Why is that?
20 MR.
GREEN:
I' m not sure why it is.
21 MR.
SNOW:
Excuse me for i n t e r r u pti n g,
mu l
- 2 understanding is that was a design feature to avoid 03 the cask drop cccident.
04
~
Q With th e Icft wall, and I am r ef e r rin g to 25 Figure 9.1.2-5, with the left wall higher th an now at EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERytCE. CHARLOTTE. NOkTM CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow, G reen D i r ra c t 125 I
- Catawba, the chance of the ca s k tip aceident of th e f
s 2
pool is increased?
3 hR.
GREEN:
The chance of that would 4
- increase, yes.
5 Q
The center of r o ta tion of the cask in a 6
ti ppin g a c cid e nt would be higher?
7 MR.
GR EEN:
Yes.
8 Q
A nd the center of g r avit y of a particular 9
cask would fall over the S p e n't Fuel Pool with the 10 higher left wa ll ?
11 M'R.
GREEN:
I have not analyzed that for 12 C atawba.
(
13 Q
Under the o rigin al design at M cG uire ?
14 h! R.
GREEN:
I wa s n't involved in McGuire 15 I couldn't t e ll you.
16 Q
Do you know the answer to the que s tion ?
17 MR.
GREEN:
I d o n' t.
18 MR.
IA C G A R R Y :
I think the Witne s s i
19 mie s poke and said C atawba at the b e gin ni n g 20 I b e li e v e the answer was given in th e 21 context of IA c Guir e.
i 22 h: R.
GUILD:
- Yes, we understand it is 23 a four foot lower w a ll at C a t awb a.
24 MR.
GREEN:
- Yes, e
25 EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROLINA e
Direct 126 Tuckman, Snow, G reen 1
BY MR.
GUILD:
2 Q
R elc ting again to the Tigure c.1.2-5, is the top of the wall at M cGuir e r e fle c t e d by the ele va tio n, 3
4 th e non-shaded portions of the pic tu r e ?
5 MR.
GREEN:
- Yes, the M cGuire w a ll, the 6
corresponding elevation at M cGuir e would be related 7
by 605 plu s 10 ele va tio n li n e.
8 Q
D id the A p plic an t s take the p o s itio n at 9
M cGui r e that a cask tip accident of this sort c o uld n ' t to happen?
11 MR.
MCGARRY:
I will obj ect to the 12 line of que s tionin g concerning M c G uir e.
13 It is irrelevant to this C atawba p r o c e e din g, I4 M R.
G U ILD :
I w ould a sk the Witne s s 15 to answer the qu e s tio n.
16 MR.
GREEN:
I don't know about the I7 final outc ome at M cGuir e.
I really wa s n't 18 involved in M cGuir e's elevations.
19 20 BY M R.
GUILD:
21 Q
Do you know whether or not Duke took the 22 p o s itio n such a tip accident could not occur at 23 M cGuire ?
24 MR.
SNOW:
It is my und e r s ta ndin g that th e M
cask drop at M cGuir e had been analyzed.
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROLINA
Tuckman.
- Snow, Green Direct 127 1
Q Did you understand the qu e s tion, do you 2
know whether Duke did or did not take the po sition 3
that a tip accident into the pool as repre sented by the 4
Figure 9.1.2-5 for C at awb a c ould n' t happen?
5 MR.
SNOW:
That is my unde r s tanding, that 6
the analysis demonstrated th at the M c Guir e in cid e nt 7
could take place.
8 Q
C ould not take plac e ?
9 h: R.
SNOW:
Could; I think we are pretty 10 far a fie ld.
11 MR.
MCGARRY:
I'll clarify the 12
- Record, I object to th e lin e of que s tioning;
(
13 but to clarify the R e co rd, the Record r e fle cts 14 that the cask would not tip into the pool, 15 and that was affirmed by both the Lic en sing 16 Board and Appeal Board.
17 MR.
GUILD:
That wa s n't the qu e s tio n ;
18 th e qu e s tion was could it happen, not woulc.
19 it happen.
20 M o m e n tum and geometry and there hav e 21 been fundamental c o nfi gu r a tio n changee, it 22 seems relative to e s t a bli s h whether or not, 23 fi r s t, would it happen; but for that design 24 change and secondly wh e th e r th at d e s ig n 25 change le adequate to prevent itt occurren c e.
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERysCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
T uckman,
- Snow, Groen Direct 128 1
MR.
MCGARRY:
Over our o bj ec tion, 2
I will state that the McGuire record r e fl e c ts 3
that the cask would not tip into the Spent 4
Fuel Pool.
5 6
BY MR.
GUILD:
7 Q
A ll right, Mr.
- Tuckman, p a r ticula rly, and 8
I appreciate you leading me through that did tha t S
9 represent a complete d e s c riptio n of the cask handlin g 10 that would be involved in receipt and ultimate storage-11 of n o n - C a t a v[b a spent fuel at C atawba ?
12 MR.
In a very eketchy manner, l'
13 the procedure would be much more d e t a il e d.
There a:
e 14 a lot of t hin g s we didn't mention.
15 Q
Is there a nythin g that occurs to you that l
l 16 was not mentioned that was of significanc e ?
17 MR.
TU CKM A N:
That is s uf ficie nt.
18 Q
What would happen, g e ntle m en, if a spent 19 fu el cask f ell into the Catawba Spent Fuel Fool and 20 that pool was at that tim e filled with assumed 21 inventor y of spent fuel, including spent fuels di r e c tly 22 b elow or dir e c tly adjacent to the wall s e pa r a tin g the l
23 pool f rom the cask storage area?
i 24 MR.
M C G ARR Y:
That is a h y p o t h e t i c :.1, i
M and I don't b e li e v e a basis can be e s tab -
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
'I n c k m t. n, Snow, G reen Direct 129 1
li c h e d for that h y p o t h e t i c al, c.
2 MR.
GUILD:
I would ask you to 3
answer the qu e s tio n, please.
4 MR.
SNOW:
That a naly si s has not 5
been pe rf o rme d for Catawba.
6 7
BY MR.
GUILD:
8 Q
The answer is you d on't know?
9 MR.
MCGARRN:
No, I believe the 10 answer is that analyses have not been per-11 f o rmed for C a t a wb a.
12 s
13 BY MR.
G UI LD :
14 Q
I aeked you what would happen.
15 M R.
SNOW:
Do you want me to speculate?
16 Q
I want you to t e ll me to the best of your 17 knowled ge wha t w o u ld happen.
18 h1 R.
SNOW:
I would ima gin e that a fuel 19 cask dropped into the Catawba pool with a storage 20 a s s e mbly in that r e g io n, that would r e s ult in some 21 damage to those storate a s s e mblie s f rom a postulated 22 cask drop.
23 Q
W ou ld it cruch the a s s emblie s ?
24 M R.
SNOW:
I'm not sure thst--I d on ' t 25 know what would happen to th em.
I would accume the y
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow, Croan Direct 130 1
would be d a ma g e d.
2 Q
Is it reasonabic to conclude that a cask of 3
between 25 and 40 tons f allin g onto the
- t. s s e m b li e s 4
would c ruch them ?
5 M R.
SNOW:
I would a s s ume, yes.
6 O
What damage could r e s u lt to those 7
a s s emblie s ?
8 M R.
SNOW:
A me chanic al damage to the 9
m at e rials of f abricatio n.
10 Q
C ould it r e s ult in a release of radioactive 11 materials into the Spent Fuel Pool?
12 M R.
SNOW:
Yes.
13 O
A rupture of cladding?
14 M R.
SNOW:
Yes.
15 Q
C on ta min atio n of the Spent Fuel Pool water ?
16 MR.
SNOW:
Yes.
l 17 Q
In your judgment if such an accident 18 occurred would that contaminat ton be s ig nific an t ?
19 MR.
SNOW:
No.
20 Q
w ould any special procedures be required 21 in order to assure the h e alth, public health and s af et y 22 in that event?
23 MR.
SNOW:
I think tho s e procedures, yes.
24 Q
W ould there be any special procedures to 25 address that?
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLDTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
F Direct 131 T u c hm a n,
- Snow, G re en 1
MR.
SNOW:
I think the de sign would 2
accommodate that action so the health and cafety of 3
the public is s a ti s fie d with current design.
4 Q
Would the current fuel pool ventilation and 5
fil t r a ti o n s y s t em --
6 MR.
SNOW:
It is my un an alyz e d judgment, 7
yes.
8 Q
It would work?
9 (hir.
Sn6w nod ded his head 10 af fir m ativ ely. )
11 Q
What would be the li k e li h o o d if such an 12 accident happened, what was de s cribe d happened and 13 there was a crushing of the a s s e mbli e s, would 14 c ritic alit y.
r e sult ?
15 MR.
SNOW:
It would be my j u d g rn e n t it 16 would not result.
17 Q
Why not?
18 MR, SNOW:
Why is it my jud gment or w o ul d 19 it r e s ult ?
20 Q
B o th.
21
}/. R.
S N OW:
The level of the c o n fig u r a ti o n 22 for c ritic a lit y would not be enhanced for this 23 circum s tanc e.
24 Q
What would be t h e ef f e c t produced by crushe d 25 fuel a s s emblie s in the event of a cas k drop accident EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CNARLOTTE, NORTH CAROUNA o
'T u c km an,
- Snow, Green Direct 132 1
d e s crib e d ?
2 2.. R.
SNOW:
I would only s p e culat e, that 3
h a s n't been analyzed.
In other cir cums t anc e s it has 4
been demonstrated that the c r i ti c a li t y; would not 5
r e s ult f rom that cir cums tanc e, so on the basis of 6
previous inf o r m a ti on that is on the Record.
I would 7
have to, in my jud gm ent, conclude that it would not 8
r e s ult in c riti c ality in the C a tawb a pool.
9 Q
What othe r plants
'a'r e you f amiliar with 10 where that analysis has been p erfo rmed ?
11 hi R.
SNOW:
All plants with lic en s e s which 12 have c a p abilitie s to or who have analyzed fuel cask
~
13 h a n dli n g incidents.
14 Q
S p e cific ally, yes?
15 M R.
SNOW:
Oconee a n d la c G ui r e have had 16 analyses of these types performed.
l 17 Q
Why were those analyses pe rf o rm ed at l
18 Oconee and M cGuir e ?
l 19 MR.
SNOW:
I guess they were directed to 20 be performed or there was some higher problem for
^
21 a cask drop accident to occur in the fuel pool.
i 22 Q
Do you know the reason?
23 M R.
SNOW:
I t'h o u g h t I did, but I' ve been 24 directed o th e r wi s e or I'm somewhat ignorant about l
25 that.
A pp a r ently the analysic was done on M c G ui r e.
L EVELYN DERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NosrTM CAROUNA l
Tuckman, Snow, Green Direct 133 I
1 The reasons for doing it are beyond my l
2 knowledge.
3 Q
Why was it done at Oconee?
4 M R.
TUCKMAN:
I can answer that, I was 5
Lic ensin g Engine er at Oconee when the analysis was 6
performed; and a t' th at tim e we were applying for a 7
lic e n s e to rerank O c o n e e. III.
8 O
Are'you f amiliar with the analysis there ?
9 MR.
TU CKMAN:
N'o t the d e t c.11's of the 10 analysis.
11 Q
In the analysis that was done at M cG uir e 12 and O c.o n c e, what was the configuration a s sumed to be:
)
k' 13 produced by the drop onto the a s s e mblie s ?
14 MR.
MCGARRY:
Let me let the Recor d 15 r efle c t I objected to this lin e of inquiry 16 ten minut e s ago.
17 The fact thnt I have not been obj e c tin g 18 does not mean it is not a continuing 19 o bj e c tion.
20 MR.
SNOW:
It is my r e c olle c ti on tha t 21 the maximum enhancement of c ritic ality 22 potential would be the s ho vin g together of 23 a s s e mblic s f r o rn the cask drop.
24 25 BY MR.
GUILD:
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORT NG SERvlCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
Tuckman, S n o w, G roe n Direct 134 1
Q A nd what geometric configuration--
7
\\
2 MR.
SNOW:
Side by side.
1 3
Q A lo n g their ve rtic al axes?
4 MR.
SNOW:
Yes.
5 Q
What criticality enhancement would r e s ult 6
f r om a diagonal or a right angle inte r s e c tion of 7
a s s emblie s ?
8 M R.
SNOW:
Much less.
9 Q
And with the m a xi rhu m enhancement you sai
- 1 10 was produced by the a s s e mbly being pressed together 11 a lon g their v e r tic al axes, how close to c ritic alit y 12 did the a s s e mbli e s come ?
t 13 MR.
SNOW:
I d on't r e c all that num b e r.
14 It was b e l o w, less than c ri ti cal.
15 Q
R emaine d sub-c ritic al ?
16 MR.
SNOW:
Yes.
17 Q
For all possible--
18 MR.
SNOW:
Yes.
19 Q
Why ?
20 MR.
SNOW:
P h y s i c s.
21 Q
Is the s ymmetrie s of fuel pool wate r s 22 significant to that c ond ition ?
23 MR.
SNOW:
I don't r e c a ll in this 24 particular instance.
25 Q
The fuel pool wate r is designed for b orated-< -
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA r
- Tuckmun, Snow, Green Direct 135 1
MR.
SNOW:
It is.
s 2
C I< n d the b e r a ti o n is in part to reduce the 3
chance of c rit ic ality ?
4 MR.
SNOW:
No.
5 O
b' hat is the purpose of the b o r a t i., n ?
6 hi R.
S N O V/ :
The purpose of the bo ration ol 7
the water ir to prevent dilution during r e f u e lin g into 8
the rack to the c o o lin g s y s te m.
9 Iv. R.
M C G A R R S':
Are we into 10 c ritic ality now?
We were talking about 11 L'. c G u i r e and Oconee and the cask drop at 12 M c Gui r e and Oconee.
13 If we have gone into another area, we 14 are at an appropriate time to take a break.
15 MR.
GUILD:
Just a little mo r e.
16 17 BY MR.
GUILD:
18 O
What is the f u n c ti o n of the boration of the 19
.v a t e r,
eith e r in the fuel pools or in the racks e f flu e r.t?
20 hR.
S N C Yl:
The f un c tio n of borated water?
21 Q
- Yee, in the rtek to fu elin g, i t s e'1 f,
docen't 22 it r; e r v e the c a r.: e function in the pool?
23 u n, snow; yes.
24 O
Doesn't it reduce the lik elih o o d of 25 c ritic ality ?
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
3
- Tuckman, Snow, Groen Direct 136 1
MR.
SNOW:
Its presence would.
(
2 Q
A nd its absence would c o n ve r s ely increase 3
the chance of c ritic ality ?
4 MR.
SNOW:
Yes.
5 Q
What is the technical s p e cific a tio n being 6
e mplo ye d at C atawba for the cond en s ation of Boron 7
in the c entr al pool?
8 MR.
TUCKM AN:
I b eli e v e it is 2,000 parts 9
per mil; I don't r e c all the u p'p e r limit.
10 Q
Has Duke ever experienced an instance whe:re 11 Boron c ond e ns ation at any of its f a cilitie s has droppe d 12 below e ith e r the rack to c o o lin g system or spent fuel ?
t' 13 MR.
T U C KM AN:
It sub s equ ently dropped in 14 the rack to c o o lin g s ys tem during reactor.
I am not 15 aware of an instance when it dropped below technical 16 a p e cific atio n s.
17 Q
How about below two parts per m il ?
18 MR.
TU CKM AN:
That is a technical 19 s pe cific ation.
20 Q
You are not aware of any cir cum s t a nc e s 21 where the Boron has dropped below 2,000 parts per l
22 mil ?
23 MR.
TU CKM AN:
I am not f amilia r with 1
24 O c o n ee, l
25 l
Q G entle men, do any of you know of any l
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow.
Green Direct 137 1
in s tance ?
2 MR.
GREEN:
M ik e Green, Iam not eithe r, 3
MR.
SNOW:
I am not f amiliar with an 4
instance.
5 Q
Either in the fuel pools or any other Boran 6
storage tank o r make-up wate r tank or any other syst em 7
where eith e r under normal conditions or ac c o r din g to 8
- textuals, the 2,000 parts per mil standard would 9
apply?
10 MR.
TU CKM AN:
I don't u n d e r s t r. n d the 11 que s tion.
12 O
I have understood there may have been an 1
13 instance at one of Duke's f ac ilitie s in some portion 14 of the f a c ili ty,
- s. n d I
.m trying to understand whe n 15 and where or if I am correct, w h e re Boron 16 c onden s ation dropped below 2,000 parts per mil; and 17 help me, if you can think of s o m ethin g, and I am not 18 u sin g the correct technical terms.
19 MR.
TU CKM A N:
Oconee had an instance, 20 and I can't r e c all where or when, in which B or at ed or Bo ra tion s p e cific a tion s were below the s pe cific atio n, 21 22 but I can't r e c a ll where or when.
23 Q
And that would be on the 2.000 parts per 24 mil standard ?
25 M R.
TUCKM AN:
Yes.
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERvlCE. CNARLOTTE. NOsrTH CAROUNA
T u ckman,
- Enow, G roen Direct 138 1
Q Do you know how or where that happened?
l 2
M R.
T U C IO.: A N :
I don't know.
3 MR.
GUILD:
All right, C ou n s el, this 4
has been going a long time.
I think I can 5
fini s h up quickly, if you will bear with me 6
a little ~ bit.
7 8
BY M R.
GUILD:
9 Q
Let me turn very briefly, if I can, to the 10 Spent Fuel Pool cooling s y s te m.
Is it e s s e n tially 11 correct that the fuel pool cooling system as in s t alle :1 12 at C atawb a l's th e same design s ystem a s was original ly 13 proposed for the s m all e r capacity pool?
14 M R.
TU CKM AN:
That is e s r entially correc t.
15 There were mino r m odific a tion s.
16 Q
With those minor m o dific atio n s,
were they 17 imp o r ta nt to the f u n c tio n s of the c o olin g system?
18 MR.
T U CKM AN:
No.
19 Q
Is n't it e s s e ntially true that the '7 6 heat
- load, increased heat load analysis, is the basis for 20 your c o n c lu s io n that the originally de signed pool 21 c o olin g system will function adequately under the add e'd 22 23 heat l o r. d s of n o n - C a t a wb a~ fuel pool as s e mblie s ?
24 M R.
SNOW:
Yes, that is correct.
25 Q
In lay terme, g e n tle m e n, how much is the EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CARCE.fMA
,m...-
m n
- Tuckman, Snow.
Groon Direct 139 1
heat removal r equir e m ent at the expanded C a tawba poc le s
2 enhanced beyond th e hect load expected at Catawba 3
prior to its redesign and exp an sion ?
4 L R.
SNOW:
What ?
Are you a s kin g for the 5
diff e renc e in the quantity of heat, the analysis that is 6
p re se nted in this document gives two v alu e s for a ll 7
C atawba situations and one for an as sumed amount of 8
material f rom other plants.
9 Q
- Yes, sir.
10 M R, SNOW:
Do I understand your qu e s tio n 11 to be what is the diff e re nc e between those two nu mb e r s?
12 Q
No, the que s tion is what is the dif f e renc e t
13 b e tw e en your o r i g in a ll y expected--I am not talking 14 about the design range, but the expected no rmal remo val 15 value a nd the value that is postulated for use at Cata.v b a 16 as expanded to include the non-C a tawba fuels.
II MR.
MCGARRY:
I would object to tha t
I8 lin e of qu e s tio nin g.
I b elie v e we were into 19 this lin e of qu e s tionin g e a rlie r, and th e l
oo
~
basis for the objection le the status, the 21
- design, the heat lead c a pa bilitie s of the 92
~
o rigin al design at Catawba Spent Fuel Pool 93 is irrelevant to the p r e s en tly designed 24 C atawba Spent F uel _ Pool.
25 M R.
G UI L D :
I would ask vov to answ 3r EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. MORTH CAROLINA
Dircet 140
- Tuckman, Snow, Green the qu e s tion, please.
1 f
MR.
SNOW:
We would have to do a 2
lot of adding to fi gu r e that out.
The 3
current or the 1976 d o cum e nt a s s um e s,
and 4
it is in the FSAR there, B42.7, B.T U.s 5
for heat generated for the m axi mum --
6 If I could call it multi-unit c o nfi gu r at ion 7
8 Pool.
9 MR.
GUILD:
'Yes.
10 MR.
SNOW:
With C :. t a w b a pool only 11 the number is in the order of three m illi o nk 12
, MR.
G UILD:
- Okay, B.T.U.s?
i 13 MR.
SNOW:
Yes.
But that in clud e s 14 some as sumed Catawba fuel passed th e 15 o rigin al, about 700; and you would have to 16 look on the values to de te rmin e th at,
but i t 17 would be s m all.
18 But the additional fuel expansion did i
l 19 not rn a t e r i a ll y increase the heat load f r om 20 C at awba fuel.
21 22 BY M R.
G UI LD :
23 Q
But the order of m a gnitud e is within the r
f 24 range of 39 to 457 l
25 MR.
SNOW:
- Yes, 39 to 42 mit B.T.U.s.
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE, NORTM CAROUNA
- Tuchman, Enow, Groes Direct 141 1
Q Now the design of the Spent I'uel Pool 7
2 o r i g in ally was on the basis o f the a s sumption that the 3
pool would be used only for short term decay and the a
4 p r o p e rti e s transchipped to a reporsessor, r e po sit o r y, 5
is thr.t correct?
6 ht R.
SNOW:
Not particularly.
7 Q
Did you understand that the original pool 8
design was for long term, on site storage of spent 9
fuel?
10 MR.
S N O V/:
The heat load a naly s is is 11 dominated by the fuel core discharge.
12 Q
- Yes, I understand your position there; but
/
13 let me repeat the qu e s tion again:
Wouldn't you agree 14 that the original design of the f a cility wa s for the 15 expected normal operation which would include use of 16 the pool only for temporary decay and then properties 17 t r an s s hipp e d ?
18 hi R.
S N O V/ :
That is imm a te rial.
19 Q
Isn't that true?
20 MR.
S N O VI:
I don't know whether it is tru e or not; it is i mm a t e rial to the analysis is my point.
21 22 The analycic does not m s. k e any dif f e r e n tia tio n there.
23 It a c cume s the fuel pool full of a s s e mblie s 24 and therefore it cannot speculate rbout what may or 25 inay not happen to the m at e rial.
evetm nr.onn associares. svawones aseo=rimo suavice. cuaatorra. wo=ra caaouwa
- Tuckman, Snow. Groon Diroct 142 1
Q The o ri gin al a naly s is for the design of the 2
C at awba S pe nt Fuel Pool prior to its expansion assum ed 3
a f u ll pool?
4 M R.
SNOW:
Sure.
5 Q
A nd hottest fuel?
6 M R.
SNOW:
Yes.
7 Q
Beyond that, is it your understanding then 8
that beyond the physical expansion of the dim e n sio n s 9
of the pool and therefore its
'c a p a c i t y,
no alt e r atio n s 10 were eith e r necessary or have been rnade to the 11 S pe nt Fuel P ool coolin g system?
12 M R.
SNOW:
That's correct.
L 13 Q
Do any other systems significant to safety-M MA.
SNOW:
The Spent Fu el Pool v e n tila tio n 15 system was increased in capacity due to the larger 16 volume of air mas s in the fuel pool area.
17 Q
I direct your attention to this do cument, 18 the '76 heat lo ad study.
19 MR.
SNOW:
A ll right.
20 Q
L o o ki n g at Page Two of Thirty, does that 21 note accurately r e fle c t the current dimen sion s of the 22 pool at the bottom of the page?
23 MR.
SK C W:
A p'p r o xi m a t e ly tha t 's correct.
24
- yes, sir.
25 Q
What is the basis for the dif f e ren c e betwee n EVELYN BERGE R ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
- Tuckman, Snow, Groon Direct 14 3 the 1,412 a s s embly capacity r e fle c t e d on Page 5 of 1
2 the EO study and the s p e c ifi c a tio n s that are currently 3
referenced, 1,418 now in the FSAR?
4 MR.
SNOW:
I'm not sure I know the 5
dif f e r e n c e.
6 MR.
TUCKM AN:
The dif f e r enc e is six.
I 7
Q Thanks.
Was the 1,412 intended to be an j
g a p p r o xim a tio n ?
9 MR.
SNOW:
I think it is an a p p r o xim a tio n, 10 Q
The 1,418 is a firmer fi g u r e in terms of
~
11 actual cap acity ?
12 M R.
Yes.
l 13 Q
What happened to th e Spent Fuel P o ol liner l
14 plate if the temperature design limitations are exceed e d ?:
15 M R.
GREEN:
The line r plate, w e ll, it is l
16 designed for t empe ratu re s s p e cified in the FSAR.
If 17 those temperatures are exceeded, is that your qu e s tic.n?
18 Q
Yes.
l 19 MR.
GREEN:
You would have more of a 20 tendency for d ef ormation of the water, the lik e lih o o d 21 of ma re degrees being a p p lie d to the w e ld s,
to the 22 base plate bedded in the concreta.
23 Q
What would happen if the lin e r plate welds, 24 if the lin e r plate deformed or w eld s,
d ev elop ed crack s 25 or breaches?
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NOMTH CAROUNA
T uc kman, Snow, Green Direct 144 1
M R.
GREEN:
What would happen?
2 Q
- yes, 3
MR.
GREEN:
If the li n e r plate was to 4
expand it would how out further from the concrete 5
surface.
6 If the welds were to crack, which I' m not 7
sure they w ould, if they were to crack, I don't know 8
of any significant consequence at this time.
9 Q
Is the lin e r significant to m aintainin g, io 10 preventing leakage from the spent fuel?
1,. R,
GREEN:
There is a leak chase outsid a 11 12 of the weld s that connects the lin e r pinte to the base 13 plate.
14 That w o ul d n ' t crack under any t e mp e r atur e s 18 Q
B elow the pool?
16 3.: R.
GREEN:
No, it is outside the pool on 17 to p of the line r plate.
18 Q
Next to the line r plate?
19 hi R.
GREEN:
I' m trying to find a way to 20 d e s c rib e it to you.
There is opent fuel water to 21 come in contact with the concrete su rf ace behind the 29 liner p l e.t e,
two diff er ent welds would have to crack
~
93 and develop icaks.
94 Q
Is it a double li n e r ; is that what you are
~
25 a aying ?
avt:tyn ennaan associates. stenorvas necoarino senvice.cuantorra.nonra canovna l
- Tuckman, Snow, Groen Direct 145 1
MR.
GREEN:
- Yes, at the joint there is a 2
doubic lin e r.
3 Q
At the bot tom of the pool, s id e s of the poo l?
4
.V R.
GR EEN:
A ll surfaces of the lin e r 5
plate.
3 Q
Is this an annulus ?
7 MR.
GREEN:
An annulus, if you will, that 8
surrounds the joints, the y are welded up to the water 9
T hat weld is an a nnulu s curro'nding the w e ld.
u 10 It runs the length of the pool.
11 O
It is cn angle, a structural, stainless stee'l 12 angle thst sets down over the weld and w eld e it down 13 to the lin e r plat e ?
14 L R.
GREEN:
On the wat e r s id e of the lino r 15 plate.
,1 -
i 16 Q
Incide the pool there are angle irons?
17 A. R.
GREEN:
- Yes, tu r nin g it upside down 18 you would look Ilk e a toepee.
19 Q
If the int e g rity of the line r was b r e t. c h e d,
20 would the pool water leak?
21 14 R.
GREEN:
I don't know.
22 O
Whe r e would it go if it got through the 23 line r ?
24
?,t R.
GREEN:
It would come in contact with 25 the concrete s ur f ac e.
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES, STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NOWTH CA'touNA
i Direct 146
- Tuchman, Snow, Green 1
Q Is that concrete s e s. l e d ?
f s
2 h R.
GREEN:
No.
3 Q
W ould it drain through cracks in the 4
concrete ultimat ely ?
5
- g. R.
GREEN:
Cracks in the e xi s tin g 6
concrete?
7 Q
Joints in th e concrete?
8 M R.
GREEN:
- Pores, yes; if cracks did 9
~
p o s sibility.
f o rm,
- yet, that is a 10 Q
M c. s the company p e r f o rme d any analysis 11 of postulated leake in the Spent Fuel Pool?
12 hi R.
GREEN:
No.
13 Q
Has the company performed any analyses 14 to determine how much expneure at what temp e ratur e s 15 beyond the de sig n limitations the pool liner could 16 with s t a n d before its in t e g rity was thr eate ned ?
17 A R.
GREEN:
I' m not f a milia r with Oconee 18 I couldn't answer the qu e s tio n.
19 Q
For C atawba ?
20 MR.
GREEN:
Repeat the qu e s tio n.
21 Q
Has any analysis been pe rf ormed of the o9
~
the lin e r plate of exceeding th e temperatur e e ff e c t s cn 23 design limit ation s ?
\\
24 MR.
GREEN:
We have no calculations goin g
25
'hevond 150 degrees.
EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CMARLOTTE. NORTM CAROUNA
T uc hman, Snow.
Green Cross 14 7 1
Q That analycle has been p e r f o rm e d of the s
2 effects on the in t e ;; r i t y of the Spent Fuel E uildin g of 3
impacto from an airc raf t crash?
4 MR.
MCGARRY:
We object to that 5
que s tion, and we would direct the Witn e s s 6
not to ans we r that que stion.
7 That area was raised in a C ont entio n 8
by P a lm e t t o A lli a n c e w hi c h was r ub s equentl y 9
rejected by the B o a'r d.
10 MR.
GUILD:
We desire the Witnes s 11 to answer the qu e s tion.
12 MR.
M CG ARR Y:
And we instruct the 13 Witne s s not to answer the qu e s tion.
14 MR.
GUILD:
That c o nc lud e s my 15 qu e s tion s.
16 MR.
M CG A RR Y:
I just have s e v e r al 17 f o ll ow up qu e s tio n s.
I direct this to the 18 Panel.
19 20 CROSS E X A I.I IN A T I O N 21 EY MR.
M CG ARRY:
22 Q
A re t ranc e hipm e nt s between the C a tawb a 23 S p e nt Fuel Poolc c o n t e m pla t e d ?
24 MR.
SNOW:
Setween the pools?
25 Q
T ha t's correct.
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLDTTE. NORTM CAmouNA
- Tuckman, Enow.
Creon Croes 148 I
h: R.
TE CKMAN:
I don't know of any.
g(
2 MR.
SNOW:
Not to my knowledge, no.
3 Q
With respect to the inquiry c on c e rnin g the 4
p eo ple who would be u tili = e d in u nlo a din g the spent 5
fuel casks, I b e li e v e his area of inquiry was directed
's it necessary for Duke Power Com pan 6
to Mr.
Tuckman; i
7 to hire additional pe r s onnel to conduct this a c ti vity, 8
or will th e personnel necessary to conduct this 9
a c tivi ty be drawn from a poo1'already in existence at 10 the Catawba plant?
11 MR.
T U CKM AN:
If this a c t i vit y were to 12 c ontinu e at rates we talked about e a r li e r,
we would 13 still u tili = e personnel f rom the e xis tin g resources.
14 but we would have to increase th e m a na g e m ent a t' th e 15 s tatio n to accommodate that le vel of activity.
16 Q
What additional s t a f fin g would be required?
17 M R.
TUCKMAN:
The maximum stipulated 18 300 s hip m e nt s per year, I would think that we would 19 wind up with at le a s t one additional O p e r atio n s 20 Supervisor, two Equipment O pe rator s, and that is 21 probably it.
22 MR.
MCGARRY:
- Okay, that is it, 23 g e ntle m e n.
k 24 FURTHER THE DEPONENTS SAITH NOT 25 EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERvtCE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAROuma
149 1
r I,
Lichael T u c km a n, hereby c e r tif y that I have s
2 read and understand the foregoing transcript and 3
b elie v e it to be a true, accurate and complete 4
t r a. n e c r i p t of my t e s tim o ny.
5 6
7 Michael Tuckman 8
s i g n'e d i n my pres ence by 9
This D e p o s ition was 10 Michael Tuc kman on the day of June, 1983.
11 12 f
('
13 Notary Public 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
(
N 24 25 EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATE $. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
150 1
I, Lowell Snow, hereby c e rtif y that I have read
,(
2 and understand the f or e g oin g transcript a nd b elie v e it 3
to be a true, accurate and complete transcript of my i
t e s ti mo n y.
5 6
7 Lo w e ll..S n o w 8
9 This D e p o s ition was s i g n'e d in my pres ence by 10 Lowell Snow on the day of June, 1983.
11 12
(
i 13 Not a r y Public 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
(
24 25 EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE NORTM CAROUNA
151 1
I, Michael Green, hereby c e r tif y that I have rea d
(
2 and understand the foregoing tr an s c ript and b eli e v e it 3
to be a true,
- t. c c u r a t e and complete transcript of my 4
t e s timo ny.
5 6
7 Michael G reen 8
9 This D e p o s iti on was signed in my presence by 10 Michael G re en on the day of June, 1983.
11 12 t'
(
13 Notary P u blic 15 16 17 5
18 19 l
20 21 22 23 I
s 24 25 EVELYN SERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTM CAmouMA
152 1
C E R T I F I C A T E
's 2
STATE OF MORTE C A RO LIN A 3
COUNTY OF MECKLENBURG 4
I, L ynn E.
G illi a m,
do hereby c e rtif y 5
that the proceedings were by me reduced to m achine 6
c h a rthand in the presence of the Wit n e s s e s, af t e r wa rd a
7 transcribed upon a typewriter under my d ir e c tio n; and 8
that the foregoing is a true and correct transcript 9
of the proceedings.
10 I further c e r tif y that these proceedini;s 11 were taken at the time and place in the foregoing 12 c a p tio n s p e cifie d.
\\
13 I further c e rtif y that I am not a 14
- relative, Counsel or /. :t o r n e y for eithe r Party or 15 o the r wis c inte re s te d in the outcome of this action.
16 IN WIT N E S S WHEREOF, I have here-17 unto set my hand
'a t C ha rlo tte, North C ar olin a, on 18 this the day of June, 1983.
l 19 20 21 l
22 LYNN B.
GIL LI A M 23 Court Reporter 2/.
25 7.. y C o m mi c c io n expires Id a y 12, 1988.
l l
EVELYN BERGER ASSOCIATES. STENOTYPE REPORTING SERVICE. CHARLOTTE. NORTH CAROUNA
[