ML20003A127
| ML20003A127 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Salem  |
| Issue date: | 01/14/1981 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20003A128 | List: |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8101290669 | |
| Download: ML20003A127 (77) | |
Text
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IiUCLEAR REGULATORY CCMMISSION l/
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~ Utj, COMMISSION MEETING f
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DISCUSSION AND VOTE ON I
FULL POWER OPERATING LICENSE FOR SALEM l
i PUBLIC MEETING i
k DATE: January 14, 1981 PAGES:
1 - 75 Am.
Washington, D. C.
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.uDERMY REPORT 1.YG f.
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' 400 71.TM a Ave., S.W. Wae4n.p en, D. C. 20024 Talaphena : (202) 554-2345 i:.1 L (c(o f
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1 UNITED STATES CF AMERICA 2
NUCLEA R REGULATORY COMMISSICN 3
4 DISCUSSICN AND VOTE ON 5
FULL POWER OPERATING LICENSE FOR SALE?
6 PUBLIC MEETING Nuclear RequIatory Commission 7
Room 1130 8
1717 H Street, N.
W.
Washington, D. C.
9 Wednesday, January 14, 1981 10 The Commission met, pursuant to notice, at 11 10:05 a.m.
12 BEFCRE:
13 JOHN F.
AHEARNE, Chairman of the Commission 14 VICTOR GILIN SKY, Commissioner JOSEPH Y. CZNDRIE, Commission 15 PETER 3. BRADFORD, Commissioner 16 STAFF PRESENT:
17 L. RICKWIT, General Counsel 3.
MALSCH, Cffice of General Counsel 18 J. H0YLE, Secreta ry H.
DENTON, NRC 19 E. CHRISTENBURY, NRC J. KERRIGAN, NRC 20 D. EISENHUT, NRC L. NORHOLM, NBC 21 7.
NOONAN, NRC D.
ROSS, NRC 22 D.
VOLLMER, NRC J. KNIGHT, NRC 23 D. VASALLO, NRC J.
DICKIE, NRC 24 R. PRIE3E, N RC S. SCHWARTZ, NRC 25 J. DICKIE, FEMA ALCEASoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
MVIRGINIA AVE. S.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
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CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
The business the Commission 3
meets on this morning is to consider a report from the 4
Director of NRR regarding the Salem No. 2 sta tion.
At an 5
earlier stage we had addressed previous issues with respect 6
to Salem.
We nor come to address a full power licanse 7
proposal.
8 Len,are we under any kind of restriction?
9 3R. BICKWICK:
No.
This is an uncontested 10 matter.
It is contemplated tha t you would always have free 11 access to the staff on those matters.
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12 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
We have received a small 13 billet-doux from the staff regarding Salem and I am sure 14 that there are many interesting items in it that some of us 15 may have missed, or all of us have missed.
I have hopes f
18 that this morning will at least some of the concerns.
l 17 let me briefly mention the ones I have, so that I 1
18 would like in your pres 9ntaton at least you address these 19 and perhaps some of my colleagues would care to point out l
l 20 the areas that th e y are interested in, the emergency plan, 21 the operators, the competence of the company, the block wall l
22 and the role of ICE.
23 Does anyone else have anything that they would 24 care to say?
25 (No response.)
l ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
400 VIRGIN!A AVE., S.W., WASHtNGToN. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
F 3
1 Harold.
2 (First slide.)
J MR. DENTON:
I have with me this morning at the 4
table on my left Janice Kerrican, the Froject Manager for 5
Salem II, Darrell and on my right leif Norholm, the Resident 6
Inspector at Salen.
We did plan to cover I think all of the 7'
areas you mentioned.
8 The Commission did issue a low-power license for 9
this plant in April of last year.
They completed the 10 low-power testing in August.
Since that time these types of 11 issues and others have been partially the cause for our not 12 completing the safety revie w before this da te.
We now have 13 resolved to the satisfaction of staff all of the issues 14.except those relating to emergency planning.
15 So, is our view, the only impediment to the 16 issuance of a full power license would be the completien of 17 the energency planning plan and the execution of a drill.
18 Tha t drill is not expected to be performed until about 19 March.
20 We have in the audience today a representative of 2:
FEXA and we vil'1 ask him to discuss the status of emergency 22 planning in the two af fected states at an appropriate time 23 in the agenda.
24 Let me turn it ever then tc Janice to go thrcuch 25 our review and we vill be sure to hir the areas you have ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
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1 identified.
2 CHAIRMAN AhEABNE:
All rig h t.
3 MS. KERRIG AN :
If we could have the second slide.
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(Slide.)
5 This outlin.?s what we planned on discussing for 6
this mee ting.
7 As Dr. Denton said, we have finished our review i
8 for the Salen 2 full power license and we vill be 9
recommending issuance once the emergency preparedness items 10 have been completed.
11 Basically we are going to cover some non-THI 12 issues and THI issues.
I think all of the issues that you 13 requested will be covered.
14 First, we would like to go through the actions 15 that have been completed by the licensee since the issuance l
16 of the low-power license on April 18th.
l 17 (Slide.)
18
".his slide summarizes the major actions that have 19 been taken bT the licensee.
I will draw your attention to 20 the low-power testing program that was initiated and will be l
21 completed prior to operation above five percent power.
22 I would if Leif could give a brief status of the 23 plant as it is today.
24 MR. NORHCLMs Hight now the plant is in cold 25 shutdcwn and has been since August 30th at the completion of ALDER $oN REPORTING CCMPANY. INC.
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the low power test pro g ra m.
The only portions of that 2
program remaining at to do some training for a few 3
additional operators, but they are essentially ready fer 4
power ascensions above five percent.
5 CHAIRHAN AHEARNE:
Leif, are you the Sales 8
resident or the Salen 2 resident?
7 MR. NORHOLHs I am the Salem generating station 8
resident of both plants.
9 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Do you have an assistant there?
10 MR. NORHOLM:
Yes, I do.
He has been there for a 11 year.
12 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
The two of you cover the two 13 plants?
14 "R. NORHOLHs That is correct.
15 (Slide.)
16 HS. KERRIGAN:
This is a summary of the low power 17 testing program that was completed by Salem.
Essentially 18 the program is identical to the program tha t was completed 19 by North Anna.
The tests that were completed are listed on i
20 the slide.
We were basically happy with the prog ra m.
21 As Leif mentioned, they will be completing some of 22 the trainin g portion of the program prior to exceeding five 23 percent power.
24 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
In going through these were 25 there any anomolous results or any unusual problems that l
l ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
.h fV1CToN, D.C. 2_0024 (202) 564-2346 i
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occurred in the sense of either equipment or procedures ?
2 MS. KEREIGAN:
Not that I am aware of.
3 Leif, are you aware of any?
4 MR. NOB HOLM :
No, there were not.
5 MS. KERRIGAN:
No.
It essentially went very 6
smoothly.
7 (Slide.)
8 On the next slide are listed the main topics that 9
ve vill be discussing.
We have broken it into the non-TMI to issues, which were issues that were either left over from 11 fuel load or new issues that have come up.
We left a 11 category "Other" to address any other issues that you would 13 like to discuss.
Then we vill cover the TMI' items.
14 (Slide.)
15 The first major topic that we would like to talk 16 atout is equipment qualification.
The PSEEG program is i
17 essen tially complete except for aging.
l 18 The staff has conducted three audits on Salem.
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19 They are much further along than any of the other near-term l
20 OLs that you have heard about.
l 21 The first audit, essentially major program 22 deff.ciencies were identified in that audit.
We feel that 23 that is attributed mostly to a lack of communication between 24 the staff and the licensee.
The licensee did not have a 25 full understanding of what was expected under this item.
So ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
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they have resubmitted their entire program, redid their 2
entire progran and came in with that program.
T'ie staff 3
vent back out for another audit and was happy with the 4
results of that.
5 They audited five percent of the items and 6
essentially came up with the same conclusions as the Sales 7
station and recommended a t that time that they should be 8
allowed to go to full power.
9 Since that time, since the SER was issued, we have 10 cone out and done our full audit, the 20 percent audit.
We 11 don't have the full results back from that yet, but the 12 preliminary results do indicate that the conclusions that 13 was drawn from the five percent audit was not changed.
14 CHAIREAN AHEARNE:
What was the conclusion?
15 MS. KERRIGAN:
The conclusion was that Salem 16 should be allowed to go to f ull po wer.
There were some 17 deficiencies identified in tha t second one.
18 CHAIREAN AREARNEa Th e deficiencies, can you put 19 some number on it?
20 MS. KERRIGAN I think I will let Vince Noonan 21 give you a brief rundown of the numbers.
22 (Slide.)
23 MB. NOONAN:
Vince Noonan, Division of Engineering.
24 Before I go into this slide I would like to point 25 out that in the SER we talk about a total of 60 types of ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
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items that the licensee has identified that are required for 2
a safe shutdown of the plant.
Of those 60 we basically have 3
five types that the licensee says are qualified.
So those 4
have been placed aside and we are looking at that to see 5
whether or not we agree with that or not.
6 There are 24 types that do not appear in this 7
chart that strictly are aging problems and that, as Janice 8
pointed out, will be completed by the 1st of February.
Our 9
staff has looked at that program, gone through as much 10 detail as they could and we are satisfied that that will be 11 done by the 1st of February.
12 CHAIRMAN AREARNES Vince, when you say they are f
13 aging problems, do you mean with respect to the rest of th e 14 qualification you are satisfied and it is just the aging is 15 the open iten?
l 16 HR. NOONAN:
It is the only outstanding issues to 17 be resolved.
So I did not put that on this chart since that i
18 is the only item left to go.
19 CONMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Those have been audited?
20 MB. N00NANs They have been audited as much as 21 could be at this point in time.
It will be done in a few 22 more weeks so it is basically a pretty'cCaplete audit of the 23 aging requirements.
24 We have then what we call 31 outstanding items.
l 25 In the February 1st SER we will.be carrying these as items l
l ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
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that are unresolved and we need further work with the 2
licensee.
3 The first type is titled "Existin g Analyses 4
Indicate Qualification Not Eequired."
There are eloht types 5
of equipment totaling 93 actual items.
6 COMMISSIONER GIIINSKY:
Why were those on the list 7
at all?
. hat the licensee has done is has W
8
- 53. NOONAN:
9-done some type of an217 sis saying that because of either the 10 location of the equipment or it is not exposed to the actual IT environment right now or other means of getting the plant 12 shut down.
Since they appeared on this first list he then 13 provided us with an analysis that says they are not really 14 required.
We haven't fully resolved that.
l 15 COMMISSIONEH GIIINSKY:
It shouldn't have appeared I
16 on the original list.
t 17
- 53. EISENHUT s It is sort of semantics.
You know, 18 the way we did this is we started with everything.
What 19 this really is, and you will see this in a couple of other 20 categories, they are really disa p pea ring because it shows 21 tha t they shouldt 't have been on the list in the first 22 place, or the utility is making some design changes so they 23 no longer have to be on the list, some of these kinds of 24 things.
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25 This is sort of a completeness accounting scheme.
ALDERSON REPORTING CoWPANY,INC, L
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I reiterate the point, and Vince can correct me, we did the 2
two reviews here.
Wa did the review which is sort of what 3
we did on Sequoyah, North Anna and down the line, that is, 4
the review we were doing up until February 1.
But at some 5
point recognizing tnat February 1 is very, very close, we 6.have the Feb rua ry T SERs to do per the. Commission 's order.
7 This is the first plant where we have completed 8
the February T type of review.
This is sort of an 9
accounting scheme to account for all of the outstanding 10 issues, all of the isstes, all of the technical subjects 11 which I believe is about 50 percent.
There were about 12 60-some items.
13 MR. N00N AN s Sixty items, right.
14 MH. EISENHUTs This is just trying to be from a 15 completeness standpoint.
Ctherwise, in the number games 1E they always f all in the cracks.
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17 COHNISSIONEH BRADFORDs There is a semantic 18 problem I think with that slide, though, because where you 19 say 31 ontstanding items you are not using the word " item" 20 the same way you are in each of the sub ca tegories.
21 MS. KERHIGAM:
That is right.
22 MR. EISENBUT Well, we are not using the word i
23 "o u tstan ding " right either.
24
( La ughte r. )
It is about 31 out of about SC or ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
k G A/Kk Arb W1PTONJ).C. 20024 A 554 2346
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so types of equipment.
2 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
That is the point, items 3
on top is synonymous with types of equipment as it appears 4
down through here.
5
- 58. EISENHUT:
In fact, as you can see from the 8
very first item, they are no longer outstanding items.
7 These were the outstanding items before and this is a soving
's target also.
Last week's review has superseded this slide 9
somewhat, but you are certainly right.
10 MB. NOONAN:
This is really an accoun ting type of i
11 sheet.
The licensee has identified 60 types of equipment 12 necessary for a shutdown.
What we do is we go through and 13 sake sure we can account for every one.of these.
14 The first group or the first e'.qh t types, he hat 15 provided us with these analyses.
The staff has looked at to them and they are sa tisfied with them.
They qucte 93 actual 17 pieces of equipment.
18 There are nine tipes of equipment to be replaced.
19 These to tal a total of 82 tctual pieces of equipment.
20 There are some design changes that are being made 1
to preclude qualification of equipment nd these are two 22 types which include eight actual items.
23 CHAIRMAN AREARNE:
Is there a date by which that 24 is to be done?
25 MR..100 NAN:
These ha ve basically already been ALDER $CN REPORTING CCMPANY,INC,
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completed.
These are mainly changes in viring of the 2
particular circuits to eliminate these pieces of equipment.
3 We have one design change that has been completed 4
that is no longer a basically required qualification.
It 5
satisfies the qualification.
There are a total of four of 6
those items.
7 There are procedural changes that have been made 8
to preclude need for qualification.
These are six types of 9
those types of equipmect and there are 23 actual items.
10 CHAIREAN AHEARNE:
Are you saying, Vince, that the 11 first item with eight types and the last item with six 12 types, the section was two and one, so the total of 17, are 13 ones that either no longer have a need or else have been 14 satisfied?
l 15 MR. N00NANs They hava been satisfied.
The staff 16 has fulfilled about 50 percent looking through the data 17 sheets now to make sure they agree with all this.
They have 18 done their site review.
What they looked at at the site l
19 they agreed with.
We will make sure we go throuoh a hundred 20 percent of all these items.
This about half way through 21 that part of it.
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22 MS. KERRIGAN The last one on th ere, we have a j
l 23 licensed condition on the licensee to complete those 24 procedural changes before exceeding five percent pcwer.
25 3R. N00NANs That is righ t.
At this point in time 1
l ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
_ 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W WA8rNNGToN. D.C. 20024 (202) 5_54-2346
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ve are not saying they are completely finished because the 2
staff has not completed its total review.
3 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
On the second item which are 4
the nine to be replaced by June 30th, you have reached some
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5 sort of concluston that having them in there through June 6
30th is not necessary?
7 NH. NCON AN :
Yes, sir.
There has been 8
justification provided by the licensee in each case.
The 9
staff has reviewed a hundred percent of those 10 j us tifica tions.
They have concluded that the tetal it replacettent of those items will actually occur and that the 12 justification is sufficient.
These are basically the items 13 that havs been identified to the Commission earlier, Barton to transmitters, limit switches, those types of equipment.
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15 (Slide.)
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16 This is the remainder of the 31 types.
" Pr ov id e 17 Qualified Equipment or Belocate to a Non-Harsh Environment l
l 18 By June 30, 1982."
There are three types of this equipment f
19 totaling 30 items.
20 There is confirmatory testing to be performed on 27 one type of ites.
There are actually three pieces of 22 equipment.
This is necessary because thie piece has been 23 qualified but they are going back and checking to make sure l
24 that the actual materials and the design of this piece of l
25 equipment is indeed the same as the one that has been l
ALDERSOPe REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
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1 qualified.
At that point in time they could not prove it 2
- yet, 3
They have one qualification schedule for one type 4
of equipment which will be three actual ite ms.
That will be 5
done by January 1st, 1982.
6 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
I gather for these five also 7
the staff has reached a conclusion that they similarly are 8
satisfied and are comf ortable with their plant operating 9
with those items?
to MR. NOON AN :
Yes, sir, in all these cases ther 11 have.
12 COMMISSIONER BR ADFORD:
Vince, what is actually 13 happening with regard to thac second item f rom the botten?
14 You say the piece of equipment itself is qualified?
15 NR. NOONAN It had been qualified.
The medel 16 number actually changed.
'Jhen the staff looked at the 17 qualification report and the piece of equipment that was in 18 the plant there were some different model numbers.
The 19 licensee has gone back to verify that this is exactly the 20 same piece of equipment that vac qualified.
21 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I see.
They are not sure 22 it is the same piece of equipment?
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l 23 MB. NOONAN:
No, they are no t.
They are checking 24 it right now and they have said they will do confirmatory i
25 tests to be completed by
'31.
i ALDERSoM REPORTING COMPANY. INC,
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COMMISSIONER BR ADFORD :
If it is a different piece 2
of equipment?
3 MR. NOONAN:
Th at is right.
4 MS. KERRIGANs Do we have any more questions of 5
equipment qualification ?
8 CHAIREAN AREARNEs Peter?
7 COEEISSIONED BR ADFORD :
This is essentially the 8
information that will be in the SER on equipment 9
qualification?
10 MR. N00NANs This will be specified in auch more 11 detail in the SER.
12 CONNISSIONER BR AD FORDS But you don't expect 13 significant changes between ---
14 NS. KERRIGANs
--- _ the five percent audit and the 15 twenty.
18 5R. NOONANs No, sir.
17 COURISSIONER BRADFORDs Basically the difference 18 between hard data and that which you are still working into 19 the SER is the difference between the five percent audit and 20 the 20 percent audit?
21 MR. N00NANt Th at is righ t.
Basically what we are 22 looking now is just going through the remaining of the 25 summary Jheets to see whet"er or not we find anything in the 24 summary sheets that would negate any finding we have made so 25 far.
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
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(Slide.)
2
- 35. KEREIGANs The ne xt subject that we would like 3
to talk about is GCC-51 which essentially requires a 4
non-brittle containment pressure boundary.
The reason why 5
this issue even came up is we have always assumed that 6
compliance with the ASME code assured compliance with the 7
As we looked into it in more detail it turned out 8
that Salen was designed to the 1968 version of the code 9
which did not require f racture toughness testing which the 10 staff felt was necessary.
tt So we reviewed Sales against the later versions of 12 the code which did require fracture toughness testtsg.
We 13 reviewed all the components and we found one that had no 14 test data, no fracture touchness data.
That was the 15 feedwater lines.
So we went back and we were able to deduce 16 from the thermal history of the pipe that the material was 17 ductile and therefore set GDC-5..' So we concluded that it 18 com plies with GDC-51.
19 While we were doir7 the review we also came across 20 in the feedvater lines some stop-check valves.
Simple check 21 valves are explicitly prohibited by GDC-57.
Sales provided 22 justification for those valves and we gave them a temporary l
23 exemption from GDC-57 until they can either show tha t the 24 stoo-checx valves would meet GDC-57 or put a motor operator 25 on those valves.
l ALDERSoN REPCRTING CoWPANY,INC.
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COMMISSIONER GIIINSKT:
Can you explain that?
2 MS. XEBRIGAN4 All right.
Which part, the GDC-51 3
part cf the ---
4 COMMISSIONER HENDBIE:
Are they stop-checks or ---
5 MS. KERBIGANs They a re stop-checks.
We are 6
verifyin4 that they are accessible.
Simple checks are 7
forbidden.
If the stop-checks are accessible during any 8
event then they would not be forbidden.
We are still trying 9
to ' confirm that those stop-checks are accessible.
10 MH. DENTON:
Vay don't we have Dennie Ross 11 describe GDC-57 and our interpretation of it and how it 12 applies in this case.
13 MR. ROSS a I would like to use a simplified 14 picture.
15 (Slide.)
18 This shows one steam generator typical of four.
17 There is a vertical line that demarcates the containment 18 boundary.
Just to the righ t of the containment bcundary in 19 the area labeled " penetration area" is a check valve with a 20 little symbol coming out of the top which is supposed to 21 denote a hand wheel.
The valve is labeled seismic class one 22 just to the right of the dotted line and that 1.
the seismic 23 class one interface.
24 Of course, the main feedvater flow is normally 1
l 25 from right to left going through the check valve which of i
ALDERSoN REPoATING COMPANY,INC, l
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course during full power operation would be f ully opened.
2 Should the main f eedwa ter stop or should a siJnificant 3
rupture occur to the right chen there sculd be a reverse 4
pressure gradient and the check valve should close.
The 5
operator can go and turn the hand wheel and effect a 6
positive closure.
So as far as the construction of the T
valve itself, without describing the means of opera tion, i
8 there is a means of assuring a positive closure by turning 9
the wheel.
10 The GDC-57 says a simple check isolation feature 11 at this point in the plant design is not acceptable.
What 12 GDC-57 says is acceptable is one of three :hings.
It could 13 he a actor operated valve f rom the control roca, or 14 manually,or it could be an automatic isolation valve that 15 would actuate, say, on a containment isolation actuation 16 signal.
17 T'he intent is for that remote hand wheel to be 18 replaced in due course with a actor which would have a 19 controller signal in the control room.
20 COREISSIONER GIIINSKY that is the intent of 21 GDC-577 22 MB. HOSS:
I said the intent'of our licensing 23 action is to be put that in.
24 COEMISSIONER HENDRIE:
It is a containment 25 isolation provision.
For instance, on lines that go th rough ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
_ Q VmGINLA AVE, S.W.,WASHlNGToN. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2346
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the containment and are open to the primary pressure 2
boundary and, hence, in case of a T.CCA or connected to the 3
accident and so on you require isolation valves both inside 4
and outside the containment wall.
Again, simple checks 5
von't do.
6 This is a system which is in principle at least 7
closed inside the containment.
So in order for anything to a
come out this system from the radioactive side of things you 9
have to have a break into that secondary system.
So in this l
10 case you get avar with one isolation valve outside of it containment, but again not simple checks.
The aim of not 12 having simple checks acceptable as the isolation valves is 13 to have a more positive closure function available.
14 I am surprised ther set these up with hand wheels, 15 frankly.
Did they explain why?
You know, I used to lecture 16 on this point at MIT long enough ago so that Sales engineers 17 should have been attending before they designed the damn 13 system.
19 (laughter.)
20 MS. KERRIGAN:
They do ha ve two automa tic 21 redundant isolation valves way upstreas of these.
22 CONNISSIONER HENDRIE:
I see.
23 MS. KERRIGAN.
But they are very far away from the 24 containment.
We didn't like them that far away and we 25 wanted them to bring it in closer to this check valve.
l ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
i 20 t
MR. DENTONs The issue is confined to just th ese 2
four valves in the feedvater line.
So it is just the four.
3 The kind of scenario that would he of concern to the staff l
4 is one in which there is a steamline break perhaps 5
downstream here so that you open up this normally closed 6
secondary systen to begin with and that somehow this results 7
in core damage and the release of fission products inside 8
the vessel.
This leaks through the steam generator at some 9
leakage and gets through'these valves and you have got a
10 direct path.
That is the kind of thing tha t GDC-57 is i
1t intended to prevent.
12 The solution I think they have proposed, Ja nice,
13 is to replace these manual operated valves and to put motors 14 on these four ---
I 15 H5. KERRIGAN:
Euring the first refueling.
16 ER. DENTON:
--- during the first refueling.
Our l
17 look at the details of it and the type of layout leads us to i
18 conclude that there is no undue risk associated with 19 permitt.' to that operation in the interim.
20 CHAIRMAN AHEARNEt Are those the main valves or 2t the aux feed valves that you are talked about putting the 22 motors in?
23 MR. ROSS4 The auxiliary feed line is at the top 24 and the main is at the bottom.
25 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
I know, but you said just ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPWY. INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W WASHINGTON D.C. 20024 (202) 564 2345
29 1
four.
That vould be eight.
2 3R. ROSS:
The four main feed lines, one per steam 3
generator, right.
4 CHAIB5AN AHEARNE:
And also the aux feed?
5 MR. ROSS:
I would have to look at my other 6
diagram which is more compl=y which if Figure 1.
7 (Slide.)
8 HR. DENTON:
I don't know the answer.
9 MR. ROSS:
Figure T is a little more elaborate of 10 Ficure 2.
There are a number of auxiliary feedvater 17 valves.
The source is coming of course from the three pumps.
12 COMMISSIONER HENDRIEa I think the answer is eight.
13 (Laughter.)
14 M B. E'O S S There are quite a few more auxiliary 15 feedvater control valves.
16 CCHMISSIONER HENDRIE:
Well, yes, but this shows 17 both the motor driven and turbin driven aux f eeds coming 18 down through that stop-check into the main feedwater lines.
19 So if that stop-check is converted to motor driven on signal 20 from the control room, it is the 11AF23 valve, just the same 21 as 11BF22.
22
'HB. ROSS:
- Jt the isolation criteria for this 23 system is not the same because saf ety systems ' isolation 24 criteria take on a dif ferent interpretation.
Cbviously you 25 don 't want to isolate these.
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC, SA A A D2345.
m.
[
22 1
COMMISSIONER HENDRIE:
I see.
2 MR. ROSSs It is the sase as ECCS 1rolation 3
criteria.
4 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE We are back to four.
5 MS. KERRIGANs Yes, it is four.
l l
6 (Slide.)
l 7
We also examined fire protection and Salsa meets 8
all of our fire protection in the staff criteria.
All of i
9 the outstanding items will be completed prior to operation i
10 above five percent power.
l 1T Salen 2, although not covered by th e rule, ha s 12 committed to implement th e ne w Appendix R items on the same 13 schedule as Unit 1 to keep the units iden tical.
So they are j
14 in veer good shape as f ar as fire protection goes.
15 Any questions?
16 (No response.)
17 We also looked at sons other items that could be 18 classified as non-THI-1 which are the masonary walls.
Salem 19 does have some masonary walls and they plan on completing 20 their modifications prior to operation above five percent 21 power.
22 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Could you expand a little bit t
23 on why you raised the masonary walls?
24 MS. KERRIGAN In response to the bulletin Salem 25 did identify some walls tha t are block walls that had some l
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY tNC, 6N D.C. 20024 (202) 564-2346 -
13 1
reinforcement bars and were not constructed according to 2
design.
They have proposed som e modifica tione and those 3
modifications vlil be completed prior to operation above 4
five pe rce n.t power.
5 Would you like more details?
6 CHAIRMAN AREARNEs Yes.
7 MR. DENTON:
I think so far in our survey we have found some 5,000 masonary walls inside either auxiliary 9
buildings or containments about half of which may have 10 something hung on them of significance or may be in a 11 position such as they could fall on something significan t.
12 CHAIRMAN AHEARNEs This is clearly in all plants 1
i 13 and not just Sales?
14 NH. DENTON s That is right.
It is requiring a lot 15 of effort to look at the design criteria for nasonary walls 18 and what they may or may not have supporting th em a l
l 17 I will turn it over to our engineering group to 18 talk about Sales specifically.
19 (Slide.)
m 20 MR. VOLLMER&
In perf orming their response to ICE 21 Bulletin 80-11 they found about ten valls which would not 22 seet their criteria.
There were various reasons for this.
23 In some cases the rein f orcing rod was missing.
- n some 24 cases there were voids in the blocks, meaning that they were 25 not filled with grouting.
In some cases they were ALcERSoN REPORT 1NG COMPANY,INC,
24 1
a pparently no t designed to meet na tural phenomena.
So it 2
was a design deficiency.
So it was a combination of both 3
design and actual construction deficiencies.
4 Now, in a meeting with Public Service we proposed 5
a condition in the license in their response to Bulletin 8
80-11 that they would prior to going above five percent 7
power complate the strengthening of the walls to their 8
origina1' design criteria.
9 CHAIBMAN AHEAR3E:
Did they have a design criteria to for the walls?
It NH. VOLLMER:
Well, the design criteria for the 12 valls would be basically meeting ACI codes.
13 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE There are code requirements for l
14 masonary walls?
15 EE. VOLLMER:
The codes are not specific for 18 aasonary walls but they are design requirements which if 17 applied to masonarr walls in a proper way we feel could 18 provide the level of protection needed in a tasonary wall.
19 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Dick, wha t I~ an trying to get l
20 at is are there clear criteria tha t one would say, yes, here 21 are the criteria and we agree that those a e appropriate?
22 HB. VOLLMEB These criteria are not clear and we l
23 are in the process of developing criteria that we would hope 24 to be used across the industry in this problem.
25 MR. DENTON:
I think again it is a level of detail l
ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
25 1
that normally our review didn't extend in to.
We looked at 2
the main floors and load beariaq walls.
You know, it is a 3
question of the scope of our interest.
We have just gctten 4
into masonary walls recently.
5 CHAIEMAN AHEABNE:
But if there is safety related 6
equipment on it don't you look at it?
7 ER. DENTON:
Well, we will now, but you know we 8
can 't look at everything with the staff we have.
There are 9
3,000 valls.
10 (la ugh te r. )
11 ER. V0ll5ER:
These things came about from a 12 combination of things.
Again, one was construction 13 deficiencies.
In some cases we find that these walls were 14 not intended to support saf ety related equipment or to be 15 close to safety related equipment but in field construction 16 and so on ther ended up that way.
So it is quite a mixed 17 bag of tricks and we are trying to develop a uniform 18 approach on an expedited basis to find out what the problems 19 are and to implement a uniform action on response 80-11 20 across all the operating plants.
21 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
let me pick up though on 22 something, if I can get back to you for a moment, Harold.
23 Are you saying that you don 't have any requirement that 24 would cover how you mount safety related equipment?
25 MR. DENTON:
Well, le t me ask Jim to describe what ALDERSoM AEPoRTING COMPANY,INC,
26 1
our criteria are in this area.
2 COMMISSIONEE HENDE!Es You mean if you were 3
building a new one or if you are going back into a finished 4
plant and saying, now, will this vall fall down and pull the 5
instrument down?
6 3R. DENTON:
The latter case.
7 COMMISSIONE3 HENDRIE The latter case I expect is 8
more difficult.
9
- 58. KNIGHT:
I think, if I say get to the thrust 10 of your question, we certainly have, particularly in the 11 review of Salem, criteria in mind by which we can judge the 12 adequacy of what they have done.
As Dick notad, there are 13 codes, the ACI codes and the uniform building codes that do 14 addres.- masonary construction.
Irpically they don't address 15 it to perhaps the level of confidence, if I say use that l
18 term, that we would require in nuclear application.
17
- 53. DENTONs It is an issue which was not covered 18 in our standard review plan.
It was not custcaarily a part l
19 of our review to look at masonary walls.
It was a i
20 realization that they were quite often valls put up.
~
l l
21 CHAIEMAN AHEARNE:
Harold, I am not trying to say l
22 that you should have icoked or you should look at all 23 sasonary walls.
In that connection I was trying to see 24 whether we had any requirement on if you use a masonary wall l
25 in such a way tha t if it fails it takes with it some systems ALDER $oM REPoRTWG CCMPANY. INC,
27 1
which are very important.
2 3R. EENTONs Well, we have developed such criteria 3
in specific cases.
Remember it was a contested case over 4
masonary walls which was what got us into this issue and led 5
to the issue of the bulletin.
Jim does have criteria nov 6
for judging the responses that we are getting in, but we 7
didn't have before this began any definitive criteria.
8 CHAIRMAN.AHEARNE:. But when you look at what Salem 9
is doing you do have criteria?
10 NR. DENTON:
Yes.
11 CHAIRMAN AHEARNEs How extensive is the situation 12 at Sales?
How many walls are in question with safety 13 problemst 14 (Slide.)
15 HR. KNIGHT:
There is a summary of the situation 16 at Salem.
We are talking ten walls total.
17 CCHEISSIONER BR ADFORD :
With regard to the phrase 18 "the licensee reported ten walls" didn't we in fact have to 19 find some.of these walls?
20
- 55. KERRIGAN:
Maybe Leif could talk about that a 21 little bit.
22 ER. NORHOL5:
The response to the bulletin came in 23 two parts, onc af ter 60 days and the other af ter 180, after 24 the complete evaluation was done.
In the initial response 25 the licensee had not identified that item 1-A on the slide, i
acensoN neronnNG CowMY,INC, J
28 1
safety related piping attached to the wall.
That was 2
identified by us on site.
A subsequent response identified 3
tha t as a potential problen also.
The final 180-day 4
response has all the walls in the plant which are near 5
saf ety related equipment and does provide the analysis and 6
the corrective actions taken for both units.
7 The purpose of the 60-day response was to get an 8
initial look at what the potential problems might be.
9 CONNISSIONER BRADFORDs The first response to identified nine walls then?
11 HR. NORHOLHs They did identify the walls.
The 12 on1T wall missing in the first response was the truck bay 13 vall.
That came in later.
So the walls were identified and 14 an initial evaluation considered them not to be a problem 15 but ther did not observe that the safety-related piping was 16 attached to the wall.
That is the only point at which 17 safetr related piping is attached to a vall in the plant.
18 The issue on all the remaining walls is proximity to safety 19 related equipment.
20 CHAIRHAN AHEABNE The license condition that you 21 were going to impose is wha t?
22 MS. KERRIGANs It is th a t prior to five percent 23 they will complete the strengthing program and then by first 24 refueling the staff will have completed its review and if 25 there are any additional modifications that we feel should ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
29 1
be backfit on the plant we will backfit them at that time.
2 MB. EISENHUT I should point out that in the 3
package we sent down, this is a slight change to the license 4
condition.
The license condition we sent down said that 5
prior to five percent they had to do both of these things.
l 6
Now we are saying prior to five percent they do the one l
7 thing and priar to the operation following the first 8
refueling outage they resolve any differences between their I
l 9
criteria and our criteria as published in final form and 10 then fix any deltas.
11 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
And you modified it because?
12 MS. KERRIGANs I had just made a misu nd erstan din g 13 with the reviewer.
I thought that he reant everything by 14 five percent and really he meant the first three and th e' 15' last one by first refueling which is something that fell in 16 the crack.
17 MR. KNIGHT It might be worth commenting that we 18 had the structural engineering staff at the site.
We have f
l 19 reviewed the designs and reviewed the drawings.
We have 20 made a visit to the areas so we could nee what the walls 21 actually were.
22 The difference in the criteria we are talkinc 23 about here is an incremental on e.
It a measure really of-24 perhaps once again that extra step, that extra measure that 25 ve may require in, say, nuclear applications as opposed to ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
30 1
wha t would be acce ptable f cr no rmal construction practices.
2 Said another way, when they complete the 3
s tr eng thing program that they have proposed there will be a 4
very substantial increase in the seismic capacity of the 5
valls such that there certainly is a high level of 6
confidence that they would sustain the required earthquake 7
loads.
8 Now, whether or not in the final application of 9
criteria as a general measure to withstand scrutiny, if you 10 vill, without question, we require some slight additional 11 increment.
When we issue the final criteria we would expect 12 th a to meet whatever that final criteria turns out to be, 13 but we are not proposing in sny way that there be some 14 significant deficiency allowed to go on for a period of time.
15 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Th ank 's, Jim.
16 COM5ISSIONER BRADFORDs Let me ask again what I 17 took was implicit in one of your earlier questions on this 18 general subject.
When you say tha t there are no criteria 19 for masonary walls, the general design criterion says that 20 safety related pipicq has to be seismically adequate and I 27 presume that means the walls that support it as well as the 22 piping itself.
Is that criterion violated here?
23 5S. KERRIGAN:
No.
24 COMMISSIONER BR ADFORD :
Why not?
25
- 55. KERRIGAN I think st one time we weren't sure 1
ALDEASON REPoMTING COMPANY,INC,
s 31 1
about the construction of the wall, but the modifications 2
that the licensee will complete prior to five percent power 3
vill assure that tha t criteria isn 't violated.
4 COMMISSIONER BR ADFORD:
But at the moment you are 5
not sure tha t it is not?
6 MB. NORHOLM:
That particular wall has been 7
strengthened now.
8 HS. KEBBIGAN:
Ye s.
9 MR. NORHOLH It was the vital vall between the to two units that had to be resolved in Unit 1 before they went 11 back in service.
12 MR. DENTON:
I guess to put it in context that 13 while there might be a vall somewhere the chance of that 14 vall being, you know, the nail that led to the lack of 15 seismic capability of the plant is pretty remote.
There 16 aren't many walls and they are being strengthened.
17 We didn 't have specific criteria like we have for 18 the design of the containment and the main load bearing 19
'salls and it goes on and on and on about the design 20 details.
I was surprised to find the people had put any 21 safety related equipment on or near these walls, but as we 22 continually look deeper we turn these things up.
23 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I gather that the question 24 certainly isn 't unique to Salem in any case.
25 MB. DENTON:
No.
That is why the bulletin went to ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
32 1
all applicants.
It is a big review by the staff for all of 2
the plants.
3 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Tell me again on what kind 4
of a schedule it requires that the walls be strengthened.
5 5R. DENTON:
For Salem or for all plants?
6 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
No, f or all plants.
7 NB. DENTON:
I don't recall the status for all 8
plants.
9 Jim, do you?
10 MH. KNIGHT:
The responses were due to the 11 bulletin, the 180-day responses that gave the applicant 's 12 appraisal of the extent of the problem, in November.
We are 13 in the process now of reviewing those repsonses and they are 14 f airly extensive.
Out of some 69 ve have made our way 15 through some u7 of them.
16 The bulletin required that if seismic category one 17 equipment or systems were determined to be in jeopardy as a 18 result of the review performed by the applicant that their 19 technical specification language, if you will, would be in 20 force.
21 As f ar as our setting a schedule for repair of the 22 valls, it is something that we would anticipate developina 23 very shortly once we have had the benefit of our complete 24 review.
25 3R. DENTON:
We could brief you later on that.
We ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
33 1
haven't really tabulated the numbers I gave of 5,000 total 2
valls with about half of them having proxinity cr something 3
on them or what.
We are caming out with th e results of the 4
bulletin and we are not really yet decided on the complete 5
course of action.
6 COMETSSIONER BR ADFORD:
I would be interested in e
7 that at a f uture date.
For purposes of Sales you are 8
satisfied that both units -- well, let's see, whr; about 9
unit one?
10
- 35. KERRIGAN:
Unit 1 has completed all of their it modifications and they are at 100 percent power now.
12 CHAIRHAN AHEARNE:
Well, I gather what leif
~
13 pointed out is the reason that the A-wall is now 14 strengthened is because in order for Unit 1 to go back up on 15 power it had to be strengthened.
16 NR. NORHOLHs Tha t is right.
17 HR. EISENHUT:
We did a lot of interim fixes.
18 Actually the bulletin that went out last year, the 180-day 19 bulletin, there was actually iteration before that where we 20 did a quick look at different plants.
In fact, where there 21 were some problems plants were being fixed.
The 180-day 22 letter then, the reason it was 180 days was because we had 23 taken a preliminary look already and now we are sort of in 24 the final fix-up stage.
We sort of made a safety assessment 25 quite early in the process.
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
_________a
34 1
MR. KNIGHT:
A number of plants have already 2
completed the modifica tion of their walls as a result of the 3
effort they performed under the bulletin.
4 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Go ahead, Ja nice.
5 (Slide.)
a MS. KERRIGAN:
On slide No. 9 the topic is shift 7
sta f fing.
What I show on this slide is the combined with 8
both units operatino numbers and the per-shif t that is 9
required.
There are two SR0s required per shift and four 10 SB0s required per shift.
It They currently have licensed a total 11.
12 CHAIEHAN AHEARNE Janice, when you say " required" 13 which requirement is that ?
14
- 35. KERRIGANs These are the requirements from 15 NUREG 0737 and from an earlier letter dated -- I don't 16 recall the date.
17 CHAIBNAN AHEABNEs NUBEG 0737 requirements?
18
- 55. KERRIG AN :
Yes.
Currently right now they are 19 on th ree 12-hour shif ts.
They have enough people, both Ros 20 and SRCs to go to the four 12-shifts and they plan on going 21 to four 12-hours shifts within the next two weeks.
They are 22 working on putting the people in the right box and making 23 sure that Joe Smith has his time off, his vacation and 24 things.
25 There was an exam taken-last week.
We do not have ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
39 1
the results of that exan back, but if everyone passes that 2
exam they will be very close to the five 9-hour shift 3
operstion.
-1 CHAIRMAN AREARrE4 I guess past percentages would 5
lead one to conclude that probably everybody wouldn 't pass 6
the exas.
7 MS. KERRIG AN :
Hight.
I think that their
~
8 percentages are getting better.
They record just aro un d 9
fuel load time with our new requirements on upgrading the 10 exas content.
Their training people have been down and 11 talked to us and they have been beefing up the training.
12 CHAlH5AN AHEARNE:
I wasn't aiming just at Salen.
13 It is just that everyone should pass it.
14 E3. DENTONs One of our concerns with this 4
15 applicant going back to the original license was the total to amount of aanpower available at the site.
In other words, 17 ve were concerned up and down the line not just with 18 operators but with assistants and technicians and health 19 physics coverage and have seen an increase in their 20 attention to this area.
It has gotten to a point now where 21 the Human Factors Division has concluded that the plant can 22 be operated with these kinds of staffing even though ther 23 are not up to where we ultimately would like to see them.
24 MS. KERRIGAN One of the numbers tha t is not 25 shown on here is the back-up, for example, engineers or ALDER 8cM REPORTING COMP ANY,INC,
___)
1 36 1
niddl esnagement people that also have licenses.
This is 2
just the cargaining unit people.
3 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Now, Sales 1 is now operating i
4 on what kind of shif t?
5 MS. KERBIGAN:
They are also on the three 12-hour 6
shifts.
7 CHAIBEAN AHEARNE:
Three 12-hour shifts, and tha t 8
is what they would propose for Sales 27 9
HS. KERRIGAN:
Yes.
10 MB. NOHHOLM:
For the near ters.
11 MS. KEBBIGAN
'Salen 2 also has requirements even 12 though they are in cold shutdown to have the same shif t.
13 CHAIBEAN AHEARNE:
So you would end up having 14 three 12-hour shifts.
15 MS. KEBRICANs Right.
16 CHAIEHAN AREABNE:
We had some at least words I 17 thought floating around that that was a maximus, that 18 12-hour shifts were the maximum that were allowed and that 19 ve were trying to encourage people to go to less than that.
20 MR. DENTON:
Yes.
21 CHAIBMAN AHEARNE:
What are their plans, to stay 22 at th ree 12-hour shifts?
23 MS. KERRIGAN:
No, sir.
They plan on, as I said, 24 going to four 12-hour shifts in two weeks and with their 25 plan to be on five 8-hour shifts by no later than July 1st.
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
1 37 1
MR. EISENHUT:
I think it is January 27th.
2 MS. KERRIGAN:
Yas, 26th.
3 MR EISENHUT No.
Maybe we are lacking 4
communication here.
Not counting the January 6th to 9th 5
exams they have, using the current licensed group, enough L
s1 ready from the past exams that on January 26th they a re 7
going to go to four 12-hour shifts.
Given the exam success 8
rate is high then in fact they are hoping to be very close 9
to going to the five 8-hour shifts.
to MR. DENTON:
So they would be at four shifts prior 11 to any contemplated operation.
12 CHAIRHAN AREARNEL Leif?
13 NR. NORHOLH:
One point I might make is the f ourth 14 shift this month is for the requalification training 15 programs.
So operators will still be on three shif ts.
16 There vill be a fourth shift for training to meet the 17 recualifiestion requirements.
18 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
As far as operators are 19 concerned the vill still be on the three shifts?
20 MR. NORHOLE :
That is right.
21 CHAIRHAN AHEARNE Do they propose, and I ga ther 22 NRB concurs, to treat the plants at least for SRCs as single 23 control room plants?
24 MS. KERRIGAN:
That is right.
25 CHAIRHAN AHEARNEs Your argument fo r allowing that?
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
r 38 1
MS. KERRIGANs The two control rooms are right 2
across the hall from each other.
I think this was discussed 3
back at the f uel load stage where we agreed with the 4
licensee that for SRO purposes they should be treated as one 5
control room since they are directly adjacent to each cther 6
but for RO purposes we want to go ahead and treat them as 7
separate control rooms.
8 CHAIRNAN AHEABNEs Is it your proposal then that 9
you will, independent of what happens on further training 10 numbers, et cetera, always treat them as a single control TT roca?
12 MS. KTERIGAN:
Yes, that is our proposal.
13 ER. DENTON:
Let me ask Domenic Vasallo if he 14 would like to discuss it a little bit more.
l 15 MR. VASALLO4 Domenick Vasallo.
I just want to 16 aake a clarification.
We are treating them for purposes of 17 SRos as a single control rcom and four purposes of Ros as a 18 separate one.
19 CHAIBHAN AREARNE:
I understand that.
20 MR. VASALlos That is what was granted to them in 21 their fuel load license and tha t in wha t we propose to 22 continue to allow them to do.
They would be staffing to 23 meet those requirements.
24 MR. EISENHUTs Now, to answer one other question, 25 one of the license conditions that we put in the license is ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
39 1
that PSEEG shall cozzence to use regularly scheduled 0-hour 2
shifts without reliance on routine use of overtime by June 3
the 1st, 1981.
What that says is that although we think 4
this approach is an approach that is good in the interim we 5
don't want it to be an approach that continues indefinitely.
8 You remember at the last meeting we had I think 7
Steve 's expression was he is trying to develop some science 8
to go into this approach of whether 12-hour shifts 9
scheduled are better than going with 8 hours9.259259e-5 days <br />0.00222 hours <br />1.322751e-5 weeks <br />3.044e-6 months <br /> wherr you have 10 a high likelihood of bringing people in early and carrying 11 them over late.
.I think our thought process was at this 12 point that three 12-hour shifts were adequate.
13 Recognizing ther had a get-vell program which gets 14 them to a requal'ification program using the fourth *2-hour 15 shift we have added in a license condition which states that 18 the licensee shall commence regular requalification training 17 of operators by Ma rch the 1st.
l l
18 In essence that says th a t he aust have four 1
1 19 12-hour shif ts capability by no later than March 1.
He is 20 planning to do it sooner.
Also, the other condition I just l
21 mentioned points out that he has to have enough operatCrs go 22 back to an 8-hour shif t by June the 1st.
l 23 We sort of looked at this as a package that 24 initially we weren 't as confident that the licensee had 25 developed a program, a get-vell program, overall to get to ALDERSoN REPORTING CoWPANY,INC.
40 1
where we wanted him to get to be.
Now that he has a program 2
and tha new progran looks like it is working and it is in 3
the right time scale we are willing to buy the three 12-hour 4
shifts for some short period of time.
5 We do that also recoonizing one more thing and 6
that is, as you will see in a minute, we can't really see 7
getting to the point where this plant would be able to start S
up past five percent certainly before March or perhaps even 9
later.
So it is a short period of time we are considering.
10 (Slide.)
i 11 MS. KERRIGAN When we came up for the fuel lead 12 license we talked about the control room desion review.
13 This is just to reiterate some of that.
We liked their 14 control roe'.
There were a few deficiencies identified and 15 there are still two outstanding which will be completed to prior to ' operation above five percent power.
17 (Slide.)
18 On the next slide, Slide No. 11, we did compare 19 Salem with the NUREG-0737 requirements.
They meet them all 20 with the exception of the two listed on the slide and those 21 two are tied in with the Westinghouse Owners Group.
They 22 will be a couple of months delayed and we found that 23 acceptanle.
24 (Slide.)
25 On Slide No. 12 with the topic of " Emergency AL.DERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
i 41 1
Preparedness" they do have an interim EOF and an interim TSC.
2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Would you go back to that 3
point about the reactor coolant system water level monitor.
4 You are talking there about a report?
5 MS. KERBIGAN:
That is a report, yes, sir.
That e
is the final design package.
T COMMISSIONER GILINSKY When do we think that that 8
sort of equipment will actually be installed?
9 MS. KEBRIGAN:
I believe we have the date of --
to isn't it 7/1/82?
11 HR. EISENHUTs I think it is 1/1/82.
12 HS. KEBRIGAN:
1/1/82 13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKYa It is about a year later?
14 MB. EISENHUTt It is about a year later.
This is 15 the ites you resember where there were some questions as to 18 whe ther in f act the technology is even there yet.
This is 17 the item that we deferred generically in 0737 for a year.
l 18 We initially had required this to be a 1/1/81 requirement 19 and we backed it off a year across the board.
20 What this is at this point is a report we are 21 requiring f rom all people explaining what system they are 22 going to be using and what it looks like on their plant.
23 The report on the ECS vater level monitor really 24 doesn't bother me being a month late because I know it is 25 being developed generically in most cases and the staff is ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
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42 1
following the industry 's development on this.
It may well 2
turn out that the 1182 schedule is actual.y best.
3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKYa Let me ask you are we back 4
on track now?
5 MR. EISENHUT:
Well, things haven 't changed since 8
our briefing on 0737 really.
An awful lot of reports are 7
due by 1/1/81 as you will see in our briefing on this 8
tomorrow.
I don't see us really slipping that many 9
schedules yet and there is no change in the end date as of 10 this time, that is the date it has to be implem ented.
11 COMMISS-IONER GIIINSKY:
Does it look as if 12 equipment will be developed and produced?
13 MR. EISENHUT-:
It is still the schedule we said 14 before.
We are still shooting for 1/1/82.
15 HS. XERRIGAN:
Westinghouse has supplied Salem 16 with a generic design and Salen is taking a month to adapt 17 it to their 'particular plant.
18 ER. ROSS:
We did send the Commission an 19 information report a couple of months ago on it which was a 20 status of research.
21 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
I wouldn't say it was Cne that 22 was filled with optimism.
23 MR. ROSS:
It was not an optimistic report.
I 24 would expect to update that in about two or three more 25 aon ths because there are active tests at Oak Ridge on the ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
43 1
combustion principle.
We have a test which has not yet been 2
evaluated althcuch the data is available on the Westinghouse 3
sethod, and the semi-scale testing on the Westinghouse 4
system also.
I t...nk probably by spring, March or April, we 5
would have a much better idea of feasibility.
In the 6
seanwhile the utilities are going full speed.
7 COMMISSIONER GIIINSKY:
Going at full speed doing 8
what?
9 ER. 30SSs Buying eeuipment.
to CHAIRMAN AHEARNEs As I understood it at least out 11 of those reports the sense that I would get is that it isn't 12 question of people being unwilling to put in equipment.
The 13 question is trying to get agreement that here.is a piece of 14 equipment that is worth putting in.
15 MR. RCSSs That is correct except for ECW.
For 16 BCW plants ve-don't have the agreement in principle even.
17 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Does it look as if there 18 is a design that will work satisfactorily?
19 MR. ROSS:
Tes.
Two designs.
I think that either 20 the heated thermocouple or the vessel Delta ? system vill be 21 found to work.
They would like the integral test to prove 22 it because you could take the wrong step with an erroneous 23 piece of eq61pment.
Yes, I as optimistic that either of 24 these systems will function.
When you turn off the pumps 25 the FWR is just another SWR, so to speak, under the ALDER $CN REPORTING COMPANY tNC.
m
44 1
scenarios we are talking about and they measure liquid level 2
all the time.
They run on it.
So I don't have any reason 3
to believe it won 't work.
4 (Slide.)
5 MS. KERRIGAP:
Let's go on with the emergency 6
preparedness.
They do have an interim TSC which meets all 7
of our requirements and an interia EOF whic. meets all of 8
our requirements.
9 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Where is the EOF 7 to MS. KERRIG AN s The EOF is in Quinton, New Jersey, 11 which is 12 miles from the site.
They are still avalting 12 the final issuance of NUREG 0696 so they can plan their 13
- inal facilities.
14 The status of the emergency plan at Salen is 15 summarized on the slide.
There are a few deficiencies left 16 in the on-si,te plan and they are expecting those to be.
17 corrected within the next week or two.
18 We still need to get FEMA findings from the state 19 plans and run the emergency drill on that.
1 20 CHAIRNAN ABEARNE:
You have someone from FEMA here.
21 MS. KERRIGAN:
Yes, John Dickie from FEMA is here.
22 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Perhaps we could get a summary 23 from him.
24 CONMISSIONER GIIINSKY Let me ask, when I visited 25 the center they said tha t it take four hours te activate the ALnensoN REPORTING CCMPANY. INC,
~ - - _ _
45 1
offsite facility.
2 MS. KERRIGAN:
I had someone look into that.
3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Is that what we expect?
4 MS. KER RIG AN :
No, no.
5 COMMISSIONER G11.INSKY I may have misunderstood
~6 the number, but I thought that is what I was told.
7 MR. DICKIEa May I have the question again, 8
please?
What was the question?
9 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
He was'saying how long does it 10 take to get the offsite facility activated?
11 MR. PRIEBEs Right, I think I can answer that.
12 Ray Priebe.
I as the staff reviewer for the Salem emergency 13 plan.
14 literally it will take probably three to four 15 hours1.736111e-4 days <br />0.00417 hours <br />2.480159e-5 weeks <br />5.7075e-6 months <br /> to fully staff the of fsite emergency operations 18 facility.
However, that is not to say that the functions 17 that would normally Se perf ormed by that facility cannot be 18 done until that time.
19 At the onset of an emergency, of course, the 20 initial response is from the senior shift supervisor which 21 ther call the emergency duty officer who is subsequently l
22 relieved by the senior plant staff member who would functicn l
23 out of the Tech Support Center until he could be relieved by 24 that transfer of functions to the offsite EOF.
l l
25 Now, we do require that the director of the l
l ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
46 1
esercency offsite facility be available within an hour.
2 However, th e full staffing of that center requires a large 3
number of corporate people to come down from Newark and that 4
may take three to four hours.
However, the functions would 5
begin immediately.
8 CHAIBMAN AHEARNE:
The time lag is the time to get 7
from Newark down to the location ?
8 MR. PRIEBE:
Primarily, yes.
9 CHAIRMAN ABEABNE:
I think TVA would probably have 10 an answer to that.
11 COMMISSIONER GIIINSKY:
When you say tha functions 12 would be perf ormed, what functions are you talking abcut, 13 recommending public protection?
14 MR. PRIEBEt Hight, interface with the offsite 15 support agencies which could include recommending offsite i
18 pro tective seasures and radiological. assessment.
17 John.
18 MR. DICKIE:
Thank you for the opporrunity to 19 address the Comairsion.
I as the Director of Radiological 20 Emergency Preparedness for FEMA.
21 What we have been trying to do is to make sure 22 that both New Jersey and Delaware offsite work in tandem.
23 Let me give you the key dates.
We did find out 24 this morning through Janice tha t the state has indeed sent l
25 the plans to FEMA.
We had planned to get them en Friday but I
ALDERSoN REPCRTING COMPANY,lNC,
47 1
they have sent them today to the Regional Assistant 2
Committees.
3 CHAIRMAN AREARNE:
Bo th regions.
4 MR. DICKIE:
Actually Delaware go t theirs on the i
5 2 9th of December.
So the next then is for the RAC, Regional 6
Assistant Committees to meet and comment on those and that 7
we are expecting around 17 to 18 February for comments back 8
to the states, to the state and local by 18 February.
9 Af ter those comments are given back to the state 10 the schedule gets a little vague because of the time the 11 state may need to correct any deficiencies that are noted.
12 But we are shooting for a joint exercise with the close 13 cooperation of the NRC and FEMA v,ith the licensee and the 14 state, both Delaware and New Jersey, somewhere near the end 15 of March.
If that could be accelerated pending comments 16 back from the states on the. consents that we gave them we 17 vill try to do that.
18 CHAIRMAN AHEARNEs Now, in New Jersey's 19 transmission, has New Jersey approved the plan as far as Ne w 20 Jersey is concerned?
21 MR. DICKIES I don't know that we would use the 22 term "a p pro ve the plan."
These things are running in 23 tanden.
They just got the plan from the contractor 24 themselves.
Part of the FEMA cole through the RAC system is 25 to assist the states in developing t.he plans.
So we are in ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC,
I 48 1
that iteration right now.
There is a dialogue.
So we do 2
not have a formal Governor submitted approved state plan but 3
ve are still doing our thing.
4 You know, once you have the exercise then there is 5
a public meeting that is required.
So we a re talking a 6
schedule that would be compiled and a determination by FEM A 7
and then transmittal to the NBC for your finding.
So,the 8
benchmark we are shooting for now, at least the main 9
benchmark is the joint exercise in the latter part of March.
to CHAIBHAN AHEARNE:
I would gather then, assumino 11 that things were acceptable, then sometimes towards the end 12 of April you might be in a position to say everything is 13 accep table ?
14 HB. DICKIEt I would imagine so.
In our joint 15 rules we have a 21-day period f or the determination f rom the 16 state to the Associate Director of FEMA before we transmit 17 it to you.
Based on everything working right then April 18 does sound good.
19 COHNISSIONEH GILINSKY:
So how did we manage to 20 work things more rapidly in one of the earlier cases?
21 MB. DICKIE :
I am not sure what you are ref erring 22 to, sir.
23 CONNISSIONER GILINSKY:
The North Anna case.
24 CHAIRHAN AHEABNE:
I think the State had 25 previously reached agreement on what the plan was.
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
49 1
COMMISSIONER GILINSKYs I see.
The only thing 2
that remained was the exercise.
3 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
The only thing was actually tc 4
do the exercise.
5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKYs I see.
6 HR. DICKIE:
Well, my understanding, and I was not 7
i:ere at the time, but we would not like to have the same 8
process occur through the FEMA at least as occurred in North 9
Anna.
10 COHHISSIONER BRADFORD That is the business of 11 having the signoff within a day of the exercise.
12 HR. DICKIE:
Well, we never did a pprove the plan.
13 COHEISSIONER BR ADFORD a I see.
14 HR. DICKIEa The license was granted and we a re 15 still waiting for Virginia to provide us their corrected 16 plan.
We would no t like that to happen in this case.
17 CONNISSIONER GILINSKY:
What in fact had you done?
18 HR. DICKIES Excuse me, sir?
19 CONHISSIONER CILINSKYs What in fact had you 20 done?
Was there any sort of preliminary approval or 21 tentative approval in the case of Virginia?
22 HR. DICKIEa I am sorry, I was no t here then.
I 23 am new and I don't know the specifics of that, but my 24 understanding is that there was indeed some dialogue 25
'w o r kin g.
In fact, I think Shelley would probably address it ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, a
90 1
better than I because he was ac ting prior to me.
2 MR. DENTON:
I think it was recognized at the time 3
by FEMA that there were some things that sti11 required 4
correction but nonetheless they gave us a letter that in 5
effect indicated their concurrence.
6 HR. SCHWARTZ:
Shelley Schwartz now with the NRC 7
Division of Energency Preparedness in ICE.
8 At the time we worked with the State of Virginia 9
and based on ---
10 CONNISSIONER GILINSKYa Let's see, were you then 11 over at FEMA?
12 HR. SCHWARTZs Yes.
I was then on loan from NRC 13 at FE,3A at the time.
14 At that time we worked with the State of Virginia 15 and YEPCO at NRC.
As a result of the exercise there were 1S. still some procedures tha t needed development by the state.
17 As part of the license that was issued by NRC there were 18 con'ditions that the state would provide the necessary papers 19 and procedures to NRC to be reviewed.
Ihat period of time I 20 believe was about three sonths.
So the sta te and the local 21 government should have by this time provided FEM A these 22 updated documents for their review.
23 CONNISSIONER GIIINSKY:
But didn't FEMA send us a 24 letter discussing the state of emergency preparedness and 25 approving ---
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
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51 1
MR. SCHWARTZ:
Not approving, sir, but a letter 2
that 3
CONMISSIONER GILINSKYa
--- our going f e rwa rd with 4
the license or recommending or at least indicating no 5
objection to going forward?
6 MR. SCHWABTZa That is correct.
7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKYs Which of those?
8 (Laughter.)
9
- 58. SCHWARTZs A letter was sent from FEMA to NRC to that said we.have these outstanding items based on the 11 exercise the state can perform and the locals can pe' a rm in 12 the event of an emergency and we are waiting for these other 13 procedures to perf ect the plan.
It is not the 14 administrative process that FEMA has in their proposed rule 15 that lays out a rigorous approval process that ends with an 16 approval by the Associate Director for plans preparedness at 17 FEMA which is an ongoing process right now.
18 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I see.
And Virginia does 19 not yet have an approved emergency plan, a rilan approved by 20 FEMA?
21 MH. SCHWARTZs To my knowledge, not yet.
22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY s Could someone let us know 23 the status of tha t ?
I don 't mean necessarily right now.
24 FR. SCHWARTZ:
I think we should report back to 25 the Commission on that.
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
53 1
CHAIEMAN AHEARNE:
Any other questions on Salem?
2 (No response.)
3
( Slid e. )
4 MS. KERRIGANs Slide 13 lists the status of 5 to the license in the package that we sent down 6
here.
We had an Attachment 1 to the front of the license 7
that said these Ltems will be completed prior to issuance of 8
the license.
All items on that list have been completed 9
with the exception of the esecgency planning items and th e 10 report that we discussed before that has to come in that we 11 are delaying a month.
12 (Slide.)
13 On the next slide,on Slide No. 14 as we mentioned 14 a little bit earlier we did. find a couple of mistakes in the 15 draft license.
We had given them a little too much time to 16 install their containment water level and we bumped tha t 17 back, and the masonary wall, there was a misunderstanding 18 and that is delayed until first refueling.
- Je have been 19 getting the editorial comments back from OPE but they are 20 editorial in nature and they do not change the content of 21 the license.
22 Finally, our recommendation is that, a full power 23 license should be authorized following successful completion 24 of the emergency preparedness items.
25 I believe that is the end of my presentation.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
53 1
CHAIEHAN AHEARNE:
I have two other questions.
2 First, I noticed that in a number of pit" es in 3
here in the description the statement is made that ICE will 4
verify it or ICE will check it.
Is there something that ICE 5
is aware of that they are to check?
Is there some list of 6
things that ICE has that, yes, here is a transfer to ICE 7
res;snsibility?
8 HS. KERRIGAN Yes, sir, it is all in the 9
license.
Every item that is to be completed by five percent to or 60 days, whatever, is listed in the license so that ICE 11 has a handy guide to check off the items.
12 COEMISSIONER BRADFORDa What is served by the 13 formulation to be completed before five percent or that they 14 are authorized to go to five percent at present?
15 MS. KERRIGAN :
That is right.
16 COEMISSIONER BR ADFORDs So what you are really t
17 saying then is before issuance of the next ?,1 cense?
18
- 55. KERBIGANs No, sir, we are saying prior to 19 operation above five percent power.
A lot of these were 20 carried over f rom the fuel load license.
In that we 21 recommended that they be granted a license.
There are some 22 actions, and maybe Leif has the status of some of those 23 actions.
It was my understanding that a lot of those items 1
24 are very near completion but we don't have the ICE signof f l
25 sud we just want to make sure that some of that stuff l
l ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
54 1
doesn't fall in a crack.
2 MR. DENTON:
I think it.is partially the fact tha t 3
they have to try to prepare the license before they have 4
actually finished every little detail.
Otherwise if you 5
wait until every detail is wrapped up then you have to wait 6
an extra length of time to produce the paperwork and so 7
forth.
So it is an attempt to put everything in writing 8
bef ore and then you rely on ICE to be sure that those things 9
identified do get resolved.
10 COEMISSIONER BR ADFORD a Its practical effect 11 though is that before they can do any more than they can do 12 wright now they have to have done these things.
13 MS. KERRIGANs That is right.
14 3R. EISENHUTt That is right.
In fact, another 15 way around it is since we may be talking a couple of months 16 for emergency preparedness as an item would get completed we 17 would go ahead and as we get verification from ICE it is 18 completed we would be deleting them from the license.
19 5H. DENTON:
In fact based on the kind of schedule 20 ve have heard today I would expect a lot of these would be 21 completed.
22 CHAIRMAN AREARNE:
let me ask this to see if I 23 can't get a little more specific.
I am wondering how the 24 following sen tence gets t ransla ted into something.
This is 25 talkin about engineered safety fea tures and reset controls.
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
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55 1
It says "The Office of Inspection and Enforcement will 2
verify that these actions have been conpleted prior to 3
exceeding five percent power."
4 Now, what kind of a system is in place that alerts 5
IEE to know that NRR has made a commitment?
6 MS. KERHIGAN It is in the license.
7 MB. DENTONs Let me describe the general way.
We l
8 give copies of our SER to the resident inspectors and we 1
9 have always given them to IEE over the years so they in 10 essence know what assignments they 'have got as we finish t
tt the review.
Then we get a fo rmal letter from IEE prior to 12 the issuance, for example, of an operating license that they 13 have satisfactorilr resolved those issues that remain 14 o ut st anding.
So that is the general case and I will let 15 Janice and Leif talk about how this one has worked.
18 NS. KERSIGAN:
Leif, do you have anything to add 7 17 MR. NORHOLE:
What vill happen prior to a license 18 actually being issued is that we will transmit letters 19 con firming that actions have been taken and that they can be 20 deleted from the license.
That particular iten is a 21 condition of the license presently.
22 After the license is issued, and this was the case 23 in the five percent license, there were conditiens to be met l
l l
24 prior to the core load.
All those were confirmed by ICE and I
t 25 documented in appropriate inspection reports.
The license ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
~
56 1
conditions serve as a handy check list to ensure that those 2
items are completed.
3 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
So that whenever in here there 4
is a statement that IEE will verify that relates in some way 5
to an explicit condition that is in the license?
~
6 MS. KERRIGAN:
Yes, sir.
7 CHAIRMAN AREARNE The other question was, and I 8
am not sure whether it is Harold or Leif or someone from 9
IEE, could you talk about this particular utility 's ability to to run a plant?
11 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
You are referring to this 12 systematic assessment 13 (Laughter.)
14 I as willing to lump it in with your question if 15 that is what you are referring to.
16 BR. NORHOLM One way of determining their ability 17 to run a plant is reference to the systematic assessment a 18 licensee performs.
19 HS. KE3RIGAN:
Do you need a slide, Leif?
20 3R. NORROLHa Rhy don't you put the first one up.
21 ES. KERRIGAN:
Could you put up back-up slide 15.
~
22 (Slide.)
23 HR. NORHOLHs This is a new technique being used 24 by the regional offices to look at licensee performance 25 looking at their inspection history for a period of 12 ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
4 57 1
months.
Generally it is conducted by senior regional 2
management with input from resident inspectors.
3 In the case of Sales this is conducted in October, l 4
and, by the way, the first round of these evaluations is not 5
complete la Becion I yet.
We did look at Salem 1 and 2 6
covering th e period of September 1st,
'79, until August 1980 7
and the evaluation was done in October.
8 Wa looked at 19 functional areas and again we 1
9 looked at both units.
Of those 19 the conclusions reached to by the SALP essentially are was licensee performance 11 satisfactory or unsatisfactory in an area, was licensee 12 performance acceptable at the end of the evaluation period, 13 particularly if we found unsatisf actory performance during 14 the year,and finally what change in the application of 15 resources by ICE was dictated by the findings, either an 16 increase or a decrease in the inspection effort in that area 17 because of the types of items found.
18 If you would like, I can go into the details of.
19 the eight areas which were identified as needing increased 20 inspection effort for Salem.
21 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Wh y don 't you.
22 MS. hERBIGAN:
Would you put on back-up slide 16.
23 (Slide.)
24 MR. NORHOLE:
This slide lists the 19 areas that 25 we addressed and the eight that indicated t hat we should 1
A1.DERSON RSPoRTINLa COMPANY,INC,
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RA A A P~ SEED
4 58 1
have increased inspection eff ert for plant operations, 2
surveillance, reporting, design changes and modifications, 3
radiation protection, radioactive vaste management, security 4
and safeguards and management controls.
5 Management controls tends to be a catch-all.
If 6
we have tha t many areas that need attention then mangement 7
controls also need attention.
8 CHAIHHAN AREARNEs I recognize that it is not a 9
total' ICE normed program, it is a regional program, nor, as i
10 rou say, has it even been normed within the region.
11 HH. NORHOLHs Richt.
12 CHAIHHAN AHEARNEt Nevertheless, at least looking 13 at this particular plant the the ICE regional conclusion is to that the total inspection effort has to be increased because I
15 there are no decreases.
18 ER. NORHOLHs Let me explain that a little more.
17 We did make the conscious determination that licensr,e 18 performance at the end of the period was sa tisf actorily 19 acceptable.
We made that on the basis that those areas 20 where we had identified concerns over the 12 months l
21 appropriate corrective action had been initiated and in many 22 cases completed.
l
~
So the purpose of increasing the inspection effort l
23 t
i 24 is confirmatory in nature.
We expect that we won't find 25 problems but we need to confirm that.
ALDEls8oN REPORTING COMPANY. INC, 1
m
59 1
CHAIRMAN'AHEARNEs All I was trying to do is to 2
look at if you have a finite amount of resources.
You are 3
going to increase the effort in one place.
Although perhaps 4
it has not been a normed approach, nevertha',ess something 5
has get to decrease.
6 MR. NORHOLM:
Right, I agree.
T CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
So that has to mean at least in 8
this case there is an increased. concern.
9 MR. NORHOLHa That is correct.
What we are really 10 trying to do is to determine the ' areas that need to be 11 focused on.
The inspection effort As both region,a1 based 12 and it is to resident inspectors and we can certainly cause 13 our focus to be on these particular items.
l 14 MR. DENTON:
There has been a company l
7.t about that same time to increase the 15 reorganization, too r l
i 16 management attention to nuclear operations within the 17 company.
18 MR. NORROLM That is right.
19 MR. DENTON:
I assume that is part of the 20 corrective action.
21 MR. NORHOLH:
Right.
(
I 22 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Is the plant totally a PSEEG 23 plant?
It is totally operated by PSECG.
I 25 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
To tally owned?
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
60 1
MR. NO RROL M :
No.
The ownership is split with 2
Philadelphia Electric, Atlanta City and Delmarva.
3 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Are Salem plants the only ones 4
the company owns, nuclear plants?
5 MR. NORHOLE:
The only operating plants.
Oak 6
Creek right next door is under construction.
7 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
How long have you been there?
l 8
ER. NORHOLHa I have been on site two and a half l
9 years.
I have been inspecting Salem for three and a half to years.
l 11 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
What is your personal judgment 12 on the operation of the plant?
13 NR. NORHOLM Overall I think they have been 14 learning for the last five years.
15 CHAIRHAN AHEARNE:
We all have.
16 HR. NORHOLH The reorganiration indicates that 17 they have learned some lessers and I think from here on in 18 should make a presentahie appearance as far as bodies like 19 this.
20 HR. DENTON:
My own view f rom the time we sort 21 began the OL review of that company going back about a year i
22 is that they were entirely too thrif ty in the resources they 23 had assigned to the operation.
I think ove r the past year 24 through the licensing review we have tended to dem:n/ nore 25 from them and they.have come to see this and th e-l AL7ERSON REPORT!NG 00MPANY. INC,
61 l
1
' reorganization sort of reflects it and improvements are 2
definitely noted.
3 I think if you go back about a year it was 4
operated with what I would consider limited resources 5
devoted to the plant throughout.
I am not just talking 6
about a licensed operator but it just didn't seem that they 7
had given the amount of attention to operations and we nov 8
see as necessary.
9 CHAIh4AN AHEARNEs This recrganization you are 10 talking about basically did wha t ?
11 HR. NORHOLHs Two basic changes occurred.
Prior 12 to the reorganization the station manager reported to a l
13 general manager who had all stations, fossil or nuclear, t
14 reporting to him.
They have now made a split between the 15 nuclear and fossil electric generation organizations at the 16 general manager level.
17 The other significant change is to reorganire 18 quality assurance to make it a single organization reporting 19 at a higher lavel of management than it did before.
20 HR. DENTON:
This is a large company with 21 considerably engineering resources.
I think Janice or 22 Darrell can add their comments, but I just didn 't see that 23 they were bringing to bear on plant operations the rescurces 24 that the company really possessed and that was part of our 25 effort over the review effort to be sure that turned around.
l ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
62
)
1 CHAIRMAN AH2ARNE:
Darrell.
2 MR. EISENHUT:
'd e ll, I guess I probably ought to 3
make several comments.
4 First, addressing the specific issue here, I guess 5
I second what has been'said.
The problem as I saw it over 6
the last year or so was here is a very large company with 7
lots of capability and lots of potential, yet we were still 8
having difficulties as we went through the process of 9
getting really an issue resolved until it was brought to the 10 right level of high enough management attention.
17 By and large I as optimis. tic that the 12 reorganization of last fall will help to address that.
The 13 other thing that will help address it is our continuing to 14 follow this.
You know, if I see the problem come up again 15 ve will have the appropriate management level meeting to try 16 to get it addressed.
17 So I an encouraged tha t the reorganization I think 18 will address this.
As Leif said, I think things are 19 improving.
20 HR. DENTON :
I can't help but observe that the 27 chief nuclear person in the company, Mr. Snyder is not here 22 today.
I had hoped that he would have been here to attend 4
23 this very important meeting.
It has been an ongoing issue 24 within the staff to raise our sensitivity to operational 25 concerns.
l ALDERSG! REPORTING COMPANY. INC,
63 1
COMMISSIONER GILINSKYa He is the man in ch arge of 2
nuclear operations?
3 MR. DENTONa Yes.
4 HR. NORHOLH:
He is the senior vice president in 5
charge of production.
6 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
In charge of fossil or 7
nuclear?
8 HS. KERRIGAN:
Production.
Mr. Mettel who is at 9
the same level as Mr. Snyder in the organization is on the 10 licensing side of th e h ou se.
He is responsible for Salem it Unit 2.
Mr.,Snyder is on the operations side of the house.
12 COHNISSIONER GILINSKY Can I ask you in the ICE 13 assessment under plant operations, the report speaks of 14 operator attitudes and inattention, is that control room 15 operator or operator as the utility?
16 ER. NORHOLHs Actually both, but the control room 17 operator is the one that comes to mind most of the time..
18 COHHISSIONER GILINSKY Has that turned around 19 sufficiently?
20 HR. ';0RHOLHs There were significant attitude 21 problems vien the licensee attempted to work 12-hour shifts 22
- b y scheduling eight and the extra four came out of whoever 23 could be forced to work.
Since he has scheduled 12-hour 24 shifts things seem to be a lot better in terms of attitudes 25 of the operators in preparation to work 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br /> and knowing ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
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64 1
full well that when they say two days off they mean two days 2
off.
l 3
CONMISSIONER GILINSKYa Is it as simple as that?
4 BR. NORHOLN:
The two go together.
There is an 5
improvement in attitude and there is an improvement in 6
attention by the opera tors.
They also are cetting, as you 7
saw by the numbers, more people available to work.
I think I
8 it has gotten better.
l l
9 CONNISSIONER GILINSKY:
How frequently are these l
l 10 assessments made?
l l
11 MR. NORHOLNa We intend to do another one abcut l
l 12 April 6th which will be six months after the previor une.
13 They will look at a year in overlapping intervals.
14 CONNISSION ER GILINSKYL In this case you mean l
15 f airly soon ?
l l
16 NF. NORHOLt For this particular plant we will 17 have one in April.
18 CHAIRHAN AHEARNE:
Why is that?
19 NS. KERRIGAN:
That was at the specific request of 20 the Salen management.
I think that Mr. Eckert asked for a 21 review very quickly, as soon as possible afterwards.
He was l
22 very concerned vnen we did give him the results and he asked 23 us to specifically come back and prove that they could turn l
24 themselves around.
25 CHAIRNAN AHEARNE:
I see.
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, i
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65 1
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
How quickly would you have 2
normally done it?
3 MR. NORHOLM :
nell, the original intent was to do 4
them every six months.
I don 't know if we are able to hold 5
to that schedule.
We do intend to for Salem to do another 6
full review in April.
I 7
CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Darrell, did you have acything 8
else?
9 NR. EISENHUT:.
First, our overall program is that to once a year on all operating plants and all plants under l
It construction there vill be some form of a S ALP review.
12 Now, just a couple of notes of ca ution, and Jim 13 Taylor is not here -- IEE was going to be here I thought to l
14 address this.
We have in headquarters a review group.
15 CHAIRMAN AHEARNEa You weren't implying that if he 16 were here you wouldn't say it?
17 (Laughter.)
18 3R. E!SE3 HUT:
No.
I would try to let him say it.
19 We have a review group in headquarters who has two t
20 functions.
One function is to look at all of these SALP 21 reviews and the detailed back-up on them.
The objective is 22 that we are going to come out and literally rate plants, 23 tha t is utilities, by average, above average and below 24 average.
Those are the three groups we are looking at.
25 The second main function of this headquarters ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
66 1
group panel is to somehow normalize these different reviews 2
done around the country.
3 The group in headquarters consists of four 4
people.
It consists of Jim Sniezek and Norm Mosely from 5
ICE, Carl Michaelson and myself.
Now, that group will be 6
done these reviews and actually they have a three-man staf f 7
who will be looking at the different plants trying to put 8
them in these schemes.
9 The other point to make is that the SA1P as we go 10 down the road will not be just an ICE review, it will really 11 be an NBC review taking input from NBR, perhaps AEOD, et l
12 cetera.
The Project Manager, in this case Janice, will sit i
13 on the board,actually the board meeting out at the utility.
l 14 The purpose of having the NRR input, for example, 15 is tha t the project manager will be drawing input from how 18 the other divisions perceive the utility 's perf ormance,
?
17 par ticula rly Steve Hanauer's division.
That is, a lot of l
18 the utilities are doing a mangement review or a licensee l
19 performance.
So we are really integrating these into a set.
20 Now, the o ther thing to be cautious about when you 21 look at these increased or decreased inspections, first you 22 must remember the ICE inspection envelope allows some 23 fluctuation, increases or decreases, alreadf.
24 The second thing to note is that if you have a 25 couple of very strono inspectors, which I happen to think in l
l ALDERSoN REPORTING COWANY,INC,
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this case we do have, you have better and stronger 2
inspection and you may in fact find more thin gs.
3 A utility who is very, very vigilant about 4
reporting and looking very hard will submit more LEES and 5
more information.
Therefore when you do the statistics, 6
whatever they mean, you can in f act infer some rav 7
conclusions.
8 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
But we haven't been l
9 talking here about sta tistics.
10 ER. EISENHUT:
No, but the statistics are in fact 11 part of the base that goes into the SALP program.
l 12 COHHISSIONER GILINSKY:
That is true but l
13 NR. EISENdDT4 It is a large piece of determining 14 whether or not you increase or decrease inspections.
15 COHHISSIONER GILINSKY&
The more significant 16 comments from my point of view and the more disturbing ones 17 are ones about company attitude.
18 HR. EISENHUT Oh, certainly, I agree with that.
19 I am just saying that it varies tremendously though from 20 plant to plant.
Many of the SALP reviews from a region are 21 based very largely on statistics.
We all have that same 22 caution.
I 23 So there is considerably flexibility in the 24 interpretation of the actual make-up of the members as to 25 what constitutes increase or decrease.
For example, the ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
68 1
headquarters panel has now looked at, it is either eight or nine plants, that is looked at the reviews done, and I think 2
3 everyone concluded that there has to be increased inspection 1
4 in several areas.
5 It gets back to the same question the Chairman l
6 raised.
If every one of these conclude that you have to 7
increase inspection in three, four, five and up to nine and 8
ten areas maybe the nors is somewhere adjusted wrong.
It is 9
just a note of caution that we as a panel have looked at to these and feel the same conclusion you mentioned.
It The actual iten-by-item conclusion of increase 12 inspection here, increase it there and increase it there us.
It is 13 really does not carry that auch weight with 14 really the overall underl.ying management attitude and the 15 management approach which seems to be there in the bottom of 16 every one of these and not just these areas but even tne 17 areas that we have discussed earlier, for example, 18 environmental qualification.
It took us a long period of 19 time to work the issue out.
20 COMMISSIONEB GIIINSKT:
It would not be good if 21 the next review concluded that the plant operations category 22 was unsa tisf actory.
23 3R. EISENHUTs Absolutely.
I agree with you.
24 Tha t is our point.
25 COMEISSIONER GIIINSKY:
However you define the ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
~
69 1
elements that enter into that.
2 MR. EISENHUT:
That is right.
3 MR. NORHOLMs I can say now since there are only 4
six weeks left in the review period tha t there probably I
5 won 't be an increase.
l 6
MR. EISENHUTs Then you get back to the other 7
system.
ICE, I. don 't belie ve, if they would have a problem l
8 with the management of the plant, and NRR, if we had a 1
9 problem for our management reviews, we would be recommending to a license without some additional steps independent of the 11 SALP review.
12 COHEISSIONER GILINSKYa I understand that but it 13 is important that that level of performance and rate of 14 improvement continue.
15 CHA1RMAN AHEARNEs We are also I think as an 18 agency still developing what kind of approaches we take in 17 overall management.
So we are still trying to fit all these 1
18 pieces together.
l 19 MR. EISENHUTs It is very complicated.
l l
20 MR. NORHOLN:
One comment I would like to make on l
21 the corrective actions taken by the lice nse e, in most of the
~
22 areas listed the corrective action is addressed at the 23 corporate level or at the station level in terms of 24 procedure or practice or something like tha t.
The benefits 25 would accrue to both units.
So that the addition of Unit 2 ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY, INC,
70 1
doesn't really im pact on that.
2 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
I wonder if you could give me a 3
little chart which would show me what is the organizational 4
structure starting at the t
^#
+he corporation.
5 MS. KERRIGAN All rignt.
6 MR. DENTON:
Mr. Chairman, I would suggest that it 7
would be usef ul to the staff to get any consents on any areas other than emergenc7 planning as they are developed 9
and see if-we can't complete our documentation of the review to of the license so that when the energency plan issue is 11 concluded tha t will be the only issue that would still be 12 open.
13 CHAIS!AN AREARNEt Vic?
14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKI:
I don't have any major 15 questions I feel need to be resolved.
In visitino the plant 16 one of the things that surprised me is a lot of the 17 equipment that would otherwise be in covered buildings is 18 out in tha open.
Does that pose any safety problems?
19 MS. KERRIGAN We have looked at turbines and we 20 have looked at the cracking of turbine disks and we 21 concluded that there was no action that needed to be taken.
22 We asked them to inspect those turbines in their second 23 refueling.
24 3R. EISENHUT:
That is not uncommon.
In fact, 21 quite a number of the southern plants have a lot of thes ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
71 1
o ut d o o'rs.
2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY Well, I have seen it in 3
I just haven't seen it in the Northeast.
4 MR. EISENHUT A lot of the things, particularly 5
the turbines outside is pretty common.
6 CONHISSIONEH GILINSKYa No, I don 't have any.
+7 further questions.
8 CHAIRHAN AHEARNE:
John?
9 COMMISSIONEB HENDRIE I don't have any 10 questions.
I commend the staff for a very well prepared 11 b riefing this morning and would be happy to leave the matter 12 with the Commission leaving it to Ha rold to find a 13 satisfactory completion of the emergency planning 14 requirements and he can issue it at his t.iscretion 15 thereafter.
I don't feel the need to see it again.
16 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Peter, questions?
17 CONNISSIONER BR ADFORD :
No further questions now, 18 John.
I don 't ha ve any concerns that in any way outpace the 19 emergency planning concern.
I would be interested to see 20 the SEB on equipment qualification but that will clea rly be 21 over and done with long before the energency planning matter 22 is laid to rest.
23 I would to a t least see the FEMA conclusions 24 following the emergency planning drill before signing cff an 25 it once and for all, but short of that I don 't have any ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
M8N
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72 1
difficulty with the staff reconmendation.
2 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Let's see.
I am not sure then 3
if I completely understand how you would then leave it.
4 Joe has proposed that we approve the license.
I 5
think what Joe has proposed is agreeing to Harold's l
i 8
recommendation which is approve the operating license 7
conditional upon the successf ul completion of emergency l
8 preparedness.
Upon that successful completion Harold could 9
go' ahead and issue it.
10 MR. DENTON:
Yes, that is our recommendation.
1 11 CHAI3HAN AHEARNEs That is your recommendation and 12 Joe has said that he would. concur in that.
f 13 Now, what is your proposal?
14 COMMISSIONER BR ADFORD s I took it that Joe went a l
15 step further and said that for his part he was approving 16 emergency preparedness, too, unless Harold came back and 17 said there is something wrong here.
18 COMEISSIONER HENDRIE:
Approving issuance of the 19 license without the Commission having to hear it again, 1
20 leaving it to Parold to conclude that the emergency planning 21 is in satisf actory shape and all the requirements of FEMA 22 are met.
23 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
We may not be saying 24 anything different.
I just wouldn't conceptually turn loose 25 of the Commission 's hold on the license until we ha ve the i
1 l
ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
l
,,. G QRGINIA AVE S.W WASHINGTON 0.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
73 1
FEMA letter in hand.
! don 't k no w that that requires 2
another meeting or anything of that sort but I would wait 3
until that point.
4 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Would it be correct to say that 5
rou would be satisfied with whatever mechanism that SECY or S
OGC could come up with that a notational agreement would be 7
adequa te without going through a full meeting again?
Is 8
that correct?
9 COMMISSIONEH BEADFORDs Yes.
10 CHAIEMAN AHEARNE:
I as just trying to make sure It wo get the procedure correct.
12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
That is perfectly fair.
I 13 assume it allows obviousir if emergency preparedness turned 14 out to be a nightmare we would have a meeting if we had to, 15 but sure.
16 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Well, I assume if it did tha t 17 Mr. Dickie or his cohorts and Mr. Denton would be back up 18 here and telling us that.
19 COMMISSIONES BHADFORD:
Sure.
The way you have 20' stated it does not give me any difficulty.
21 CHAIBHAN AHEARNEs Victor?
22 COMMISSIONEB GILINSKY:
Well, I d on ' t see a need 23 for a further meeting but I guess I would put off sn 24 affirmation vote until everything is in order.
25 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
An affirmation vote wculd be a ALDERSON REPORTING CCMPANY,INC, 6M FWA NTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-20*4
74 1
seeting.
2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I mean not a meeting 3
dealing with the details of the license.
4 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
So you would not go as far as 5
Peter would go?
6 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, I think that the i
1 7
Commission to give its approval has to vote and I would i
8 leave the formal vote to the time when we are ready to deal l
9 with it.
As f ar as I as concerned in the areas other than 10 emergency planning I as satisfied.
11 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Harold, I think where we have
(
12 come out is that all four of us are in agreement on all t
13 aspects of it other thaa the emergency plan.
I think we 14 will have to wait and see.
Once the emergency plan comes in 15 I would conclude that if there are no real problems that it 16 will need at most for you to come down and'tell us that and l
17 it may not even require that much of a procedure.
If there l
l 18 are problems, clearly we all would want to revisit it.
With 1
1 19 the exception of that I think that we are all in agreement.
20 MR. DENTONa We will proceed with that 21 understanding.
22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
As f ar as the 23 non-emergency planning aspects of it the Commission has l
24 clearly concluded it is satisfied.
I 25 CHAIRNAN AHEARNE:
There are various pieces, as ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
w
~
e 75 1
Jim has said, that have to be put into the SEE, but those 2
are wrapping up pieces.
3 All right.
Thank you, Janice and Harcld.
4 Thank You very much.
i 5
(Whereupon, at 11:45 a.m.,
the meeting concluded.)
7 e
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 l
15 16 17 18 19 i
20 l
l 21 22 23 24 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC,
I NCC*lAR REGULATORY CO.W4ISSICN
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w COMMISSION MEETING in One matter Of: Public Meeting - Discussion and Vote on Full Power Operating License for Salem Cate Of ?"Oceeding:
January 14, 1981 Docket Nu=ber:
? lace cf ?roceeding:
Washington, D. C.
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