ML19343D440
| ML19343D440 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 10/07/1980 |
| From: | Neely D NRC OFFICE OF INSPECTION & ENFORCEMENT (IE REGION I) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8105040489 | |
| Download: ML19343D440 (19) | |
Text
AR:ar
}
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION I
2 v
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x 3
In the matter of:
O 4
METROPOLITAN EDISON COMPANY s
5 g
(Three Mile Island, Unit 2)
~
8 6!
1
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _x En 7
j[
Room 332 8
8 East-West Building I
Bethesda, Maryland 6
9 i
Tuesday, October 7, 1980 10 E
g 11 3
INTERVIEW OF DONALD R. NEELY j
12 l g
commenced at 11:30, pursuant to notice.
d 13
(\\
S APPEARANCES:
14 y
NORMAN MOSELEY, Office of Inspection & Enforcement, 2
15 Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
5 J
16 JOHN CRAIG, Office of Inspection & Enforcement, G
j Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
p 17 y
TERRY HARPSTER, Office of Inspection & Enforcement, 5
18 Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
'g' 19 RICHARD HOEFLING, ESQ., Office of the Executive Legal 5
Director, Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
20 21 22 0
-o0o-23l
()
25l i
j l
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
2 1
E. E S E E.E D_ I_ E Q S_
.(])
2 MR. HARPSTER:
Don, the purpose of our investig tion i
3 today is to further,our inquiry into the flow of information
()
4 at Three Mile Island on March 28.
e 5
Would you raise your right hand, please.
3 N
N 6i Whereupon, i
o R
R 7
DONALD R. NEELY 8
was called as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was d
d 9
examined'and testified as follows:
Y 10 E_ E A,M,I_,E A_ T,I_ Q Q 3
s 11 BY MR. HARPSTER:
I I
d 12,
Q Would you state your full name for the r'ecord, please?
z 13 l A
Donald R.
Neely.
{])
E 14 i BY MR. CRAIG:
du 2
15 Q
Don, I am going to ask you a couple of questions and 5
g 16 try to get your perception concerning the flow of information s
17,
or data or recommendations on the day of the accident.
18 BY MR. MOSELEY:
E I
19 I Q
Excuse me.
Just to clarify that, this is within the 3
20 site, these questions are.
21 BY MR. CRAIG:
22 O
Well, I'm going to ask you between the operators --
m.)
23 from the operators, information, data, recommendations from 24 !
the operators into the Think Tank, the group that Gary Miller-n_-
i s
25 I was calling together.
Can you give us your perception of how i
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3 1
that was working?
(]}
2 A
Well, first of all, that is not my area of expertise.
aw-3 I was a senior aLLie specialist and I was looking into health A
(~)
4 physics matters.
I did attend many of.the meetings in the s-e 5
supervisor's office where Gary Miller was meeting with his Mn 8
6 supervisors.
I do not recollect operators being in'that office e
ag y
involved in those discussions.
There were discussions held sj 8
outside the supervisor's office, where they were going over e
4 d
9 PMIDs and certain Operations people were there involved in those i
b h
10 discussions for plannalvalve changes and line-ups and things E
5 11 like that.
's
- j 12 Q
Do you recall any specific examples of recommendations 5
13 that came in to the Think Tank which were discussed?
ThereweremanyconversationsbetweenMiller,(Gary i
j 14 A
5 Miller)andJackHerbein,whowasattheVisitorsCenter,onplant 2
15 5
y 16 conditions.
The specifics I can't --
A g
17 l BY MR. MOSELEY:
E 18 {
5 1
2 Can you place us in time here?
We know about when F
I e
{
19 you ar-ived in the control room of Unit 2 was about 10:15 or n
20 thereabouts.
Is'that --
21 A
I think it was more like 11:00 o' clock.
I arrived at 22 Unit 1 at 10:15 and got a briefing there.
g-)
U 23 Q
Then subsequent to 11:00 o' clock, can you --
24 I particularly the conversations between Herbein and Miller,
(
25 were they closer -- nearer the time you arrived or nearer the e
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
l 0
4 1
time the primary coolant pumps were started later?
()
2 A
I think the time was more -- I'm not sure when the 3
coolant pumps were started -- but I think we had spent about 20
()
4 minutes with Mr. Herbein -- Mr. Miller, being briefed as to the e
5 status of the situation, A
and-we were all wearing respirators, and N
6 it was hard to communicate after that.
I would say probably R
7 in the next hours the conversations were with Mr. Herbein and A
8 8
Mr. Miller.
a dd 9
BY MR. HOEFLING:
i h
10 0
Were they on a sgawk box?
E 5
11 A
A telephone.
It was on a -- it must have been a box,
<S a
12 yes, because I could hear it.
E=
13 Q
Okay.'
{}
I E
14 A
And I didn't know who he was at the time, whose voice i
15 that was, until some time later.
w I
=
l
?
16 BY MR. MOSELEY:
E
^
l g
17 Q
Would you describe this as numerous individual calls, E
18 or one call that lasted over a long period of time?
5
\\
l E
19 A
It lasted several minutes and --
A 20 0
That would be one call?
l 21 A
Yeah.
I 22 Q
You said there were others?
23 A
There could have been others, because they had been 24 talking to B&W people on the condition of the fuel, and things gm
\\/
25 '
like this, and there were B&W people also in this group I
I l
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
5 1,
discussion.
([)
2 O
When you say "they" had been talking to B&W, yo u' re 3
talking about Rogers and Flint, or are you talking about'B&W?
(]}
4 A
o 5
0 Who had been talking with them, do you know?
Ma 8
6 A
Herbein.
e R
2 7
Q Herbein called them?
1 s
8 8
A Yeah.
N d
=
9 Q
To B&W in Lynchburg about fuel?
Y 10 A
Fuel and getting advice on what to do with the plant.
3 5
11 0
Do you recall specifics in those conversations --
<m d
12 A
No.
3
=
l f]
d 13 l 0
-- about what advice Herbein was passing back?
(_-
E
{
14 A
No.
Not being that familiar myself with the operating 2
15 system, it was -- they were discussing how to get the water 5
j 16 level back up and those type of things.
^
\\
p 17 j BY MR. CRAIG:
5 l
5 18 i Q
Was this a discussion between equals, or was Herbein E
I 19 giving direction?
Do you have a feel for that?
5 20 A
It was more discussion.
It wasn't really direction.
21 BY MR. HOEFLING:
22 O
You can recollect sharply only one conversation, or 23 many?
24 i A
Right at this time all I can say is maybe at least
()
I 25,
one.
I don't -- it's been so long ago, I don't --
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
6 1
0 There could have been others, but you don't have a
({}
2 clear recollection of that?
3 A
I was -- I would say for the -- when I noticed there
(]}
4 was a meeting going on in the room, I tried to get so I could e
5 find out what was happening, and when I wasn't there, I was.
A N
d 6
discussing with the radiological control people what they were o
Rg 7
doing.
K 8
8 BY MR. MOSELEY:
n d
d 9
Q Are you clear in your mind that this conversation took i
h 10 place shortly after you arrived, and not later in the afternoon?
E 5
11 A
Not perfectly clear.
<3 12 Q
It could have been at either time?
4 Ec
(-
d 13 A
Yeah.
I mean at that time hours to us up there were --
U}
S E
14 things were changing pretty fast, and as I've said before, there dk 2
15 was a J ot of confusion in the control room, and wearing g
16 respirators for protection, the communications were poor.
And w
d 17 a lot of the time when I was trying to overhear what was going 5
5 18 on, there were so many people involved that you couldn't get 5
E 19 close enough sometimes to really get involved in the discussions.
A 20 BY MR. CRAIG:
21 Q
Would you characterize the Think Tank meetings for us?
22 Was it a continual kind of thing, where Miller would be in the 23 shift sup's office and somebody would come in and talk to him 24 and then leave?
Or were there distinct periods in time where
/~l I
\\s 25,
certain people got together?
i l
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
7 j
A It seemed like there were breaks when there would be
( )
2 short meetings in there, and then they would -- then people would 3
reappear.
That's what I was observing, you know, and --
(")
4!
BY MR. HOEFLING:
x_/
l e
5 Q
Do you have an idea of who the participants in these M
8" 6l meetings were?
e R
R 7
A As far as Met Ed people, I can't remember, but I know N
8 8
that there was two -- one of the two B&ti engineers involved n
d c
9 in these meetings, because I had similar discussions with him io 10 myself.
E 11 Q
One or two, or one of the two?
E
'<s d
12 A
I remember one, one individual for sure, B&W engineer.
E=
d 13 He was the resident engineer there.
J E
l E
14 BY MR. MOSELEY:
w l
{
15 Q
That's Rogers.
Do you know now that he was Rogers?
=
j 16 A
I'm still not sure what his first nan;e is.
I know I
^
l 17 :
him by sight.
I've seen him, w=
18 0
Was he a younger guy?
E 19 A
Older.
I En 20 BY MR. CRAIG:
1 21 Q
And shorter?
l 22 A
Yes.
f A/
I 23 '
BY MR. HOEFLING:
1 24 Q
Did Miller appear to be relying on Mr. Rogers, this
,_3V 25 '
B&W individual?
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
L
8 j
A Yes.
(])
2 O
How did you observe that?
3 A
I -- through their discussions, there was a lot of
(}
4 input from Mr. Rogers to Mr. Miller in the discussions wnich I V e6b e.V e
5 would see from a consultant or de4 ender giving him guidance.
Mn 3
6-He seemed like he knew the system probably as well or better ng 7
than --
8 Q
Do you have any other -- can you identify anybody else d
d 9
who was an active participant in these Think Tank discussions, i
h 10 Met Ed people?
z 11 A
Dick Dubeel, who was the radiological engineer.
There "J
12 were supervisor personnel on the operating staff, but at that 13 point I didn't know who they were, and if I were to mention (a"T E
14 names now, I would be guessing if that was the individual.
But dv
{
15 they were -- they were supervisory personnel, and I --
z 16 definitely I would think it was the operations supervisor, that 3*
I
(
17 i kind of level.
18l BY MR. CRAIG:
5 l
t 19 0
Can you give us your perception of the flow of 5
i n
20 information frem the Think Tank back out to the control room?
l 21 And I guess this is more direction or questions going out.
22 A
I really can't speak to that, because I didn't follow
- 23l, it up because the position I had taken that we had NRC operations 24 inspectors in the same -- standing in the same discussion.
25 ;
O In previous testimony before the Hart subcommittee, i
k ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
9 i
you stated that you were not present during the discussions
(])
2 concerning containment pressure spike at about 1:50 p.m. on 3/28.
3 A
To my knowledge, I was not.
()
4 Q
Is this still your recollection?
e 5
A Yes.
I did not hear of that pressure spike until it b
8 6'
surfaced in the -- in the regional office.
It was brought up e
7 and we were questioned about it.
E 8
Q How can you explain the fact that you were present a
d d
9 in the control room or the shift sup's office during the pressure 6
10 spike, and that people in the control room and people in the E
i 11 shift sup's office havectestified that the pressure spike or.
'J 12 thud was common knowledge at the time that it occurred?
In 13 fact, virtually everyone in the Unit 2 control room and/or
}
l 14 the shift supervisor's office who was present on 3/28 at about E
2 15 1:50 p.m. has testified that they either knew of the spike or 5
16 heard the thud.
A d
17 j A
I don't know.
I don't -- as far as I was concerned, 5
5 18 the noise level in there was so -- was so high that I couldn't --
5 I
19 if I heard it -- I mean I'd even have recognized it, I mean --
A 20 0
Some Metropolitan Edison employees have testified 21 that an order was given on the af ternoon of 3/28 not to s tart 22 electrical equipment inside containment.
Did you hear this 23 order?
I 24 A
No, I did not.
25 '
O Do you have any knowledge of such an order or i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
10 1
suggestion being made not to start electrical equipment inside
(])
2 containment?
3 A
The only time that I recall ~ was.af ter the hydrogen
(])
4 problem had been surfaced, and then the concern was about e
5 starting electrical equipment.
U 8
6 i 0
Which day would this have been, do you know?
e i
7 A
It was when -- it wasfafter the NRC was put on alert Aj 8
that they hydrogen bubbles had increased and were increasing d
d 9
in the containment.
i h
10 0
During interviews conducted after the incident, the 3
5 11 Metropolitan Edison employees-have stated that the 28 psi pressure d
12 spike was explained to an NRC inspector.
Did you have any 3
ja discussions with Mehler or Chwastyk on 3/28/79, the day of the C:)
4 E
14 accident?
l x
1 2
15 A
I did not.
First of all, I did not know those l
l 16 individuals, who they were, or by name.
I did not discuss
.kW p
17 anything of that sort.
18 Q
Do you believe that you could have been told of the 19 28 pound pressure spike that was due to an electrical problem
(
A
(
20 or any other reason, and dismissed it?
21 A
I don't think so.
I -- again at that point my primary 22 mission was the radiological control of things.
Afterwards I (E) 23,
had to go out-and find out where that particular console was.
t 24 BY MR. MOSELEY:
l ()
l.
25 l Q
Had you been told, do you think you would have recalled ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
~
11 it?
1
({)
2 A
Yes.
3 BY MR. CRAIG:
(}
4 Q
Did you see the containment pressure increases e
5 indicated by the chart recorder at approximately 2:00 p.m. in b
8 6,
the af ternoon on 3/28?
I E
7 A
Could you repeat that?
8 Q
Did you see the spikes on the chart recorder?
n d
=
9 A
No, I did not.
As I've said, I don't even know where i
10 that recorder is located at the time.
E_
i 11 Q
Were you aware on 3/28 at about 2:00 p.m. that the d
12 containment spray pumps came on?
E=
d 13 A
No, I did not.
i 14 l MR. CRAIG:
Let's go off the record just a second.
x 2
15 (Discussion off the record.)
5 j
16 BY MR. CRAIG:
A d
17 ;
Q Are you aware that you have been identified as the 18 inspector who received an explanation concerning this pressure
=
m
[
19 spike by Brian Mehler?
A 20 A
I was informed by an individual many, many weeks 21 after the accident -- and I don't know if it was Mehler or not, 22 and I turned that over to the investigating group.
()
l 23 l Q
It was Chwastyk, I believe.
Which group?
The Rogovin 24 group?
()
25,j A
No, the special investigating group.
l i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
12 g
BY MR. MOSELEY:
(])
2 O
I'm sorry, I missed somethi.ng here.
When did you say 3
you were told?
(}
4 A
Several weeks after the accident, the -- and I'm not --
e 5
I think it was Mehler, said he had information about the spike, U
8 6l, and I turned it over to the IE investigating group at that point.
e R
7 O
Several weeks?
That would have been in April?
8 A
Yeah, it could have been April.
It was when we had --
d d
9 we were in our site coverage at that point.
i h
10 BY MR. HOEFLING:
3 5
11 Q
What kind of information did he indicate he had?
<a d
12 A
I can't remember now, something -- he indicated at z
i 5
^3 13 that point he had talked to people regarding the spike.
v
{
14 Q
NRC people?
b 15 A
Yes.
And so I knew -- we had our investigating team Y
j 16 on site, so at that point I turned it over to -- it was Tony M
Fasano y
17 eir:nc, who is the special investigator.
r 5
5 18 BY MR. MOSELEY:
3 19 0
Would this have been some time before this information n
20 was in the newspaper, which would have been early May, I believe?
21 A
This was after.
22 O*
It would have been after that?
(
23l A
(Witness nodding.)
24 i In fact, I was in the control room one day and he
()
25 ;
brought up that point.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
13 i
Q To you?
(])
2 A
Yes.
And I pointed it out to the investigators, that 3
this individual had some concerns and had this information.
(}
4 Again it wasn't my area of expertise.
That's why I passed it o
5 along.
4n 8
6 BY MR. CRAIG:
e Rg 7
Q Were you aware that he believed -- I think it was 5
8 Chwastyk believed that you were the inspector who was at the n
d
=
9 recorder during the time of the spike, and that they turned i
h 10 around to you anc said, in effect, "We havs just had a 28 pound Ej 11 pressure spike inside containment"?
m d
12 A
No.
I don't even know who he is.
I mean now I do, E=
13 but then I didn' t.
My main areas in the control room would
("}
5 14 have been at the instrument panel, for the process monitors and 1
dk 2
15 area monitors.
N 16 BY MR. MOSELEY:
k A
Q Isn't that in the near vicinity of the --
6 17 j 5
i 18 l A
It's up in front.
E 19 0
-- of the containment pressure?
8n 20 BY MR. HARPSTER:
21 Q
Let me ask you a question, to help clear this up.
22 You had-the ' operator's console, and then the vertical rods in
(
i 23 l back.
Here is the radiation monitors.
Were you in this part 24 here?
O 25l A
No. Up on the panel, in the back, the tall panel in i
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
14 1
the back.
2 Q
No, but where were you standing?
3 A
At times r,,ht at the process monitors.
()
4 O
So you were behind the front?
e 5
A Yes.
^
j 6
BY MR. MOSELEY:
R 7
0 You were standing in front of the vertical console?
A j
8 A
Yes.
d d
9 BY MR. CRAIG:
i O
g 10 Q
Between the two?
g 11 A
Yes.
3j 12 BY MR. EARPSTER:
8 13 0
You weren't back here?
{}
14 A
No.
That is something I guess we have always practiced.,
5 2
15 that we don't move into the operating console area, and most of W=
16 g
my time was: spent to the whole 1ert-hand side of the console, gvotecMon 25 y
17 the big console where the rad production ' supervisor had located i
W t
x l
M 18 himself.
l 5
{
19 MR. CRAIG:
Okay.
That concludes the interview.
l l
20 Thank you for coming and talking to us, and we will give you a t
l 21 copy o f the tranr,cript, so you can review it for any necessary 22 corrections.
3 J
l L'3 (Whereupon, at 11:50 a.m.,
the interview was 24 concluded, and-at 2:00 p.m., Mr. Neely was recalled, 25 and testified further as follows:)
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
15 1
BY MR. MOSELEY:
()
2 Q
Mr. Neely, this is a continuation of our earlier 3
discussion, and I want to remind you that you are still under
(])
4 oath, in these questions and answers also.
e 5
Did you on March 28th, did you have -- did you take An 8
6 notes of things you observed and of things you were told?
Were o
7 you taking notes on March 28th?
8 8
A I have some vague notes, yes.
n dd 9
Q Did you bring those notes with you today?
I h
10 A
No, I did not.
I was not instructed to do so, nor was E
5 11 I told this was going to be a deposition.
d 12 0
Okay.
Would you provide copies of those notes, Ece 13 specifically those that were made on March 28th, to us as soon
(~3
%-)
E 14 as you return to your office?
2 15 A
(Witness nodding.)
5 j
16 Q
And in addition to those notes that were made, if w
d 17 '
you made any summaries or other written matter, records that E
18 refer to those notes, would you also provide copies of those to 5
{
19 us as soon as you return?
n 20 A
Sure.
Whatever I can get together.
Several groups 21 have gone through those.
22 Q
Okay.
Fine.
(
i 23j MR. MOSELEY: That's all we wanted to ask you about, 24 and ask you to furnish those to us as soon as you can.
Okay.
25,
Thanks, Don.
l l
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
16 1
(Whereupon, at 2:02 p.m.,
the interview was O
2 coactueea.)
3 O
4 e
5 6
4 6
N i
7 s
8 8
2 n
'J l
c 9
i i
i O
l 10 y
j 11 s
I
'J 12 i
E S
13
- Og m
r o
E 14 u
2 15 w*
_f 16 s
' si L
i 6
17 r
w X
18
=
N 19 g
5 20 21 s O 23 ;
24 t
i O i
25,
i i
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
i-
1
-~
-J NUCLEAR REGULATORY Co.94ISSION This is Oc certify tha; the attached prcceedings 'efere the r
-)9 in the matter cf:
METROPOLITAN EDISON CO. (TMI II)
Date of ?rcceecing:
October 7, 1980 Decket llu=ber:
? lace of ?receeding:
Bethesda, Md.
4e.,. w...e i s w
as.... 4.....
a,. ears,
.n.
w
, s
...a. _w,s 4s.w...._.
4 4.,..,_-
sc 4.
thereof for the file of the Ccc=issicn.
nnn ni l m, Cfficial Reper:er (Typed) l
.p
/)_ _ _ _ _ _
- s...
9 Cfficial Repce:er (signature)
O m
s em a
en-e
h
(
n);yjg, 4%As :fLOf,Krkp' d n' d R y
, Q r, 2 x F- -
m e" nem cm (na ua, Liz)
Toy *-
9% S-M C
3, k. 3 a4e
.nda 9,b 7 Awy Pto'r 2; & n sysai
(%ep4) s, & s Wk
~~W a
@j k Il d!MN M) M
% h
y g
/saan 4e
/% k 17
@d
,2w k k.
P00R ORB!NA!.
=.
.=
.