ML19343D336
| ML19343D336 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 01/12/1981 |
| From: | Nimitz R NRC OFFICE OF INSPECTION & ENFORCEMENT (IE REGION I) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8105040302 | |
| Download: ML19343D336 (26) | |
Text
1 l
AR 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
()
2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
x
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4 In the matter of:
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METROPOLITAN EDISON COMPANY 3
8 6
(Three Mile Island, Unit 2) e R
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Fifth Floor Hearing Room, y
4350 East-West Towers, y
10 East-West Highway, 3
Bethesda, Maryland.
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Monday, January 12, 1981, d
12 3
3 Og 13 Deposition of:
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E 14 xg RONALD NIMITZ, 2
15 was commenced at 3:30 p.m.,
pursuant to agreement of the 16 g
w parties.
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APPEARANCES:
18 VICTOR STELLO, Director, Office of Investigation
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19
& Enforcement, U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, g
M Washington, D.C.
20 NORMAN MOSELEY, Office of Inspection & Enforcement, 21 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Washington, D.C.
22 JOHN CRAIG, Office of Inspection & Enforcement, 23 U.S.
Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Washington, D.C.
24 Os i
25l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
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(Appearances, continued:)
2 RICHARD.FORTUNA, Esq. Office of Inspection & Audit, U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, 3
Washington, D.C.
4 WILLIAM FISHER, U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, 5
j washington, D.C.
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PROCEEDINGS 2
Whereupon, 3
RONALD NIMITZ O
V 4
was called as a witness by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission e
5 and, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified b
6 as follows:
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7 EXAMINATION A
8 BY MR. CRAIG:
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9 Q
Would you state your full name for the record, 10 please.
1I A
Ronald L. Nimitz.
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I2 BY MR. MOSELEY:
5 O i is o
Ron, ehese -- the interviewe ehee we ere conductine 14 are part of an investigation that we have been doing into E
15 flow of information concerning Three Mile Island.
So the j
16 questions that we will be asking you today are related to that us d
17 subject.
E 18 Let's start out with the day of March 28, and tell us P"
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when you first found out that there had been an accident or n
20 an event at Three Mile Island, and from whom you heard it.
2I A
It was about 8:00 o' clock in the morning when O
my Act1,g er,nch chie,o,__ I think he was Acting erench 22 23 Chief, Bud Crocker, came into my office at 8:00 o' clock and 24 said that there was an incident at Three Mile Island, something 25 was going on at Three Mile Island, and he wanted me to go out 1
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
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there.
2 O
Who was present at the time besides you and Crocker?
3 A
I think an individual who is no longer with us, 4
a fellow by the name of John Sarabian.
He and I were office 5
mates at the time.
6 0
What did Bud tell you, other than that there had R
7 been an event and you said that he told you that you were to be Ml 8
part of the team going there?
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A He said that Don Neely was the lead health physicist s
h 10 on the -- responding, and that I was to essentially report to
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I2 Q
Did he tell you anything about any specifics about c
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14 A
No, he just indicated that there was something l
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30 Q
Were you told then that there would be a briefing I
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I7 by George Smith at a later time?
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IO A
No, I was told there was to be a briefing in our C
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little conference room, and I later went --- a few minutes l
20 later went up there and was asked by Don Neely to get together 21 some -- some documents such as FSARs and tech specs and things 22 Q
like that, and to bring -- bring to the conference room.
23
- Q Where is this conference room?
24 A
Our second floor.
I guess it would be called our 25 i emergency --
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Q The incident center, response center?
2 A
Yes.
3 Q
Which is also used as a conference room?
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4 where you were told to report by Bud?
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A He -- we were essentially asked to go up to -- to a
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meet up there, and I was to take my direction from Don.
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Q And subsequently you went directly from there, or n
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did you do something between the time that you were informed d
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of this and ---
h10 A
Not that I can recall.
5 II Q
And who was present then when you arrived at the is Incident Response Center?
A As far as I know it was Don Neely.
It was so long ago, it's just --
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iou didn't talk to anyone but Don.
Were there r
16 other people present who you didn't talk to?
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I can't remember specific names.
There were other E
18 people there, but I can't recall their names.
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Q And at this time was George Smith present?
20 A
I can't recall.
I can't recall.
21 Q
When you were there, Don then told you to get O
t gether the FSAR and --
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Some documents, some reference materials for O
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plant?
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Not that I'm -- not that I can recall.
3 Q
Okay.
And you went then directly te gather the
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4 material you had been asked to get?
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Materials, and to assist in carrying out materials N
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to the car.
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And once the material was loaded in the car, you N
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got in the car?
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Right.
It must have been about 10 minutes after og 10 g
8:30 or 8:15 or something, from what I can recall.
It didn't I
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take -- it must have been no more than 10 minutes that I was d
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told to get going, and we essentially went.
It was very fast.
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I3 Q
Okay.
Do you recall talking-with George Smith at E
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A Not that I -- I may have talked to him, but I l-16 can't specifically recall talking to George.
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Q At the time you got into the car to go to the site, M
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g you had received no information about what had happened at E
19 A
Three Mile?
Nothing that would relate to the status of the 20 plant?
21 A
I can't say yes or no.
I just can't recall back that O,
22 far, but from what I can recall, there was an incident and we 23 were to go out to the facility.
There may have -- we-may have Os 24 been told about releases or something like that, but I can't 25,
j say that I was told at that time, because I might just be ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
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putting that information in that I picked up from a later date.
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2 I can't specifically recall what I was told on that.
3 Q
Well, can you recall that you were not told anything
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4 or --
A No, uh-uh.
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Does that mean you recall that you were told something?
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A Yes, we were given a little information, but N
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5 specifically what it was, I can't say.
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You don't recall the specifics, but you were given e
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some information about what the -- some of the plant parameters?
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A No, not as far as plant parameters, I can't recall, c
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O Were you told, for instance, that there had been
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think you were told that?
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I can't recall.
I recall going to our Incident g
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Response Center and we had a discussion.
I was directed to 17 get some information and see about travel orders and travel wm 18
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money and things like that, but as far as the debriefing, we s
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-- as far as what was going on at the plant, on.the way to the l
20 plant, we discussed a little bit about the facility and how 21 it was designed and this and that.
But as far as actually
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going up and sitting down and discussing what was going on, 23 '
what condition the plant was in, I can't specifically recall O
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Q Do you recall standing around and having a 1
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diacussion, getting some information?
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It all happened so quickly and because Don was 3
essentially the lead HP on the operation, I anticipated that
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5 just went about getting the materials that he had asked me to h{
6 get together.
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Q Do you specifically recall whether or not hydrogen K
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was mentioned, either -- mentioned specifically before you got U
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into the car?
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No, not that I can recall.
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If someone had -- if you had heard that there e.was k
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I -- it may have -- someone may have mentioned it,
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Would it have rung a bell for you?
Would it have w
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18 remembered it, if you had heard it?
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Well, I imagine depending on how much hydrogen.
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20 there was a lot, then I would say --
21 Q
Say on the order of 2 percent.
Would that have been O
enou,h, 22 23 l A
I don't know.
As far as the HP aspects of what 24
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was going on, we -- the operational parameters may have been 25 i mentioned, but we were not keyed to that kind of information, i
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because it was reactor operations inspectors, and we were O
2 primar11,,nterested in the raeio1o,1ca1 aspects, and 1, some_
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4 been mentioned, we wee 1dn e heve xeyed in.on thae informeeion.
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Q Well, would you have keyed in on containment over-a 6
pressure?
Do you think that would have been something you R
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would have been interested in?
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A Well, if someone said something about overpressuriza-d 9
tion, yeah, I probably would have.
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By overpressure, I mean above zero gauge pressure;
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12 of pounds, do you think that would have made an impression?
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Yes.
l 14 Q
Do you recall having such a --
15 A
No.
I would have had some concerns if someone had ij 16 mentioned pressure was not negative in containment.
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Do you have a feeling that there was information f
IO known about the plant and about its condition that you 19 weren't told?
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Well, there may have been some information, but 21 again I was a junior member of the team, and I was not really 22 O
told everything that was going on.
So there may have been V
23 some additional information given to the senior members of 24 Q
the team that I was not aware of, and may not have been involved 25 !
in.
I anticipate that there was a lot more information given ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
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I out to the senior members, but like I said, I was primarily 2
involved with collecting materials and getting travel and 3
making arrangements like that.
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Do you feel like there was some reason for not 5
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having told you, other than that you were the junior member of 8
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A Oh, no, I don't -- it was just that everybody had N
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a specific function and thing to do, and the senior people a
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being there the length of time and what-have-you, they were --
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they were probably more familiar with information and what to do
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And I was directed to do 3
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what Don Neely said, c
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Okay.
You are now in the car underway going to the E
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site.
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MR. CRAIG:
Before we get to the car --
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BY MR. C RAIG:
6 17 Q
Can you go over briefly the people that you talked w=
18
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to when you were in the office, before you left, after Bud 19 j
Crocker came in and said talk to Don Neely?
20 A
I can recall talking to Don Neely as to what we 21 needed, and this and that, and, " Hey, you know, what kind of 22 O
things do we need?"
And also I can -- I may have spoken to Karl Plumlee because he had been inspecting the plant.
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may have wanted to get his copy of the tech specs and plant 25 I drawings or schematics and what-have-you.
And I spoke to, I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC,
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think, John McGlosker, our administrative chief, as to, " Hey,
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2 what are we supposed to do for travel?" and this and that.
3 And probably just briefly in passing.
But we were at the-door
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4 probably in --- it just seemed like no more than 10 minutes, 3
15 minutes, because I don't think I had my hard hat with me 3
6 because I went out the door so fast that I just didn't even --
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other than John McGlosker, Bud Crocker, Karl Plumlee and --
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that's probably -- I may have talked to additional people, but d
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j I can't recall who specifically I spoke to.
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Q So you spent most of this time running around?
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A Trying to collect up materials and what-have-you.
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And survey meters, and do we have all the survey meters, and
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Just essentially trying to get the materials E
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together while Don and the senior members of the team were
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either get" ting briefed or getting some final instructions.
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Q You feel that the information you did not get i
17 that they may have gotten was a result of the fact that ax M
18 you weren't there physically, you were getting everything
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20 A
I can't say for sure.
It -- we may have been 4
21 given some additional plant parameters and this and that,
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but it was quite a ways back, and I just can't recall, you 23 !
know, I can't say yes or no with 100 percent certainty.
We
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may have been there and we may have talked for a few minutes, 25 I but I can't recall it specifically, that we sat down and t
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discussed the incident.
s BY MR. STELLO:
3 Q
Ron, did you view your principal task as one of getting some equipment and reference documents and what-have-e 5
g you that someone asked you to get, and that's what was on your 3
6 mind?
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Right.
I was essentially junior member of the N
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team and was to go along and take instructions and essentially d
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10 Don Neely as he being senior member of the team.
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Q As you look back, to the best of your ability, d
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you feel that you were fairly busy in doing the things you
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were already asked to do?
When you say like in the 10 minutes m
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A Oh, yes.
Trying to get meters together and 16 documents, FSARs, drawings, so that we could see where the d
17 plant was, and where everything was located.
The radiation we 5
18
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monitor systems, descriptions, and things like that.
19 Q
So you were fairly occupied in doing what they 20 asked you?
21 A
We were so busy that on the way out the door, I
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didn't have a chance to grab a notebook when we were going out.
23,
BY MR. CRAIG:
24
,j Q
How long had you been with the Commission on March 25 t l
28th, 1979?
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A I joined the -- I think it was about three quarters n
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of a year.
A year -- yeah, about three quarters of a year.
3 BY MR. MOSELEY:
4 Q
Okay, going back to the trip in the car going to 5
j the site, what was discussed?
9 6
A Well, Karl Plumlee had been the HP inspector there R
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before, and while we were going out, Karl discussed the --
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what the plant was like, where things were located, how Unit 1 d
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was located with respect to Unit 2, and where various things cH 10 g
were in control rooms, and where the control rooms were, and
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things like that.
Sort of just the general plant layout, and
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13 how you get in and out of the plant, and what kind of security I4 would be waiting for us when we got there.
Just sort of a 15 g
rundown of what essentially the plant was like, in terms of
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Was this directed principally at you, or was this
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5 18 instructed for all the people who were in the car?
I9 8
A Well, it was -- Don Neely who was to -- who was n
20 on the team with myself and Karl, he was taking the --
21 essentially it was a turnover.
He was going to be taking 22 I's that plant over from Karl who had been inspecting it, and so O
23 it was really for the benefit of both of us, because Don wasn't
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l that familiar with the facility e_:her.
25 Q
So the three of you were sitting in the back seat.
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ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
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Were you looking at the FSAR while you were having this 2
discussion?
3 A
No.
One of the problems was the car was so small O
4' that we --- Karl had drawn, from what I can recall, little 5
j pencil sketches of where things were located on a little pad.
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6 But everything was piled in the back of the car, and it was R
7 virtually impossible to get things out of the back of the Al 8
station wagon.
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So as far as where the people were located in the o
h 10 car, I think Karl was sitting in back with me and Don and Jim
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may have been in front with Chic, because Chic Gallina was B
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oo vom rece11 e=reni=9 e1 e enet wee discu ed oa 14 the way?
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15 A
There may have been some operational things discussed,
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I7 things were located and HP monitors, rad monitors, and things
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IO like that, where checkpoints were located.
And there may c-
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have been some other additional information, which there n
20 probably was, but I can't recall it specifically.
21 Q
Do you recall whether there was a discussion of 22 the perceived severity of the accident?
23 A
No, it was quite a ways back, and I can't recall, 24 but basically we were -- we really didn't know how bad it was, 25 '
d or how things were going on, because we didn't have a radio, f
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ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
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and we were essentially listening to the radio driving out
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2 there.
3 Q
You didn't have a two-way radio, you had a commercial radio is what you are saying?
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Right.
Yes.
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Q Was there speculation about how bad things may be E
7 when you arrived?
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8 A
No.
Like I say, we really didn't -- as far as I d
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was concerned, we really didn't know what was -- what we were eh 10 E
getting into and what to expect, at least from my point of --
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from my perception.
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Q That you heard no discussion or speculation about O.'S 13 how bad it might be in that ride?
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A I can't recall.
I just -- it was such a long time i
9 15 j
ago, I just can't recall it right off the --
T 16 Q
Do you recall whether or not hydrogen in the d
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containment was mentioned in that?
5w 18 3
A No.
To be truthful, the first time I can recall I
19 R
hydrogen was probably -- was some time Friday, I think.
It 20 was --- and Friday maybe -- from the first couple of days, 21 even the first couple of days, I can't recall anything about 22
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The first -- it may have been Friday or even later, 23 ;
but I just can't recall.
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Q What brings Friday to mind as the probable day 25l
- j you first heard about hydrogen?
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
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A I don't know why I'm thinking of Friday, and --
2 because I think I might have been -- may have been talking.to 3
Walt Baunak about something.
I recall -- it just seems like 4
it was later on.
I can't -- it might have been two weeks, e
5 later on, three weeks later on, but for some reason I just 9
3 6
associate it with a Friday and talking to Walt Baunak.
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just not sure about that, but I know it was some time later s
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5 on, three, four days, maybe even later on than that, because I d"
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was there for such a long period of time, and that things C
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just started really losing their time sequence.
When you are
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But as -- from what I can recall, it was later on that -- I
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can't even -- the first couple of days, I don't even recall m!
or remember anybody mentioning anything about hydrogen.
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Q Wha' were you doing most of the day on Wednesday T
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after you arri' red?
6 17 !
A Wednesday?
I was directed by Don to do some surveys 2
Ew 18 around the plant, inside the plant, axi Karl was outside doing 19 j
some surveys outside.
But they were having some airborne 20 problems, so they were esentially trying to get around without 21 a respirator and what-have-you, and being out in the noble I
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gas atmosphere, there really wasn't anything we could do.
23 They had, from what I can recall, closed off the building 1
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l and you couldn't get in.
So the major portion of the' afternoon, N
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supervisor's office, and Chic Gallina was on the phone, and f'>l -
2 was directed not to leave the phone.
But all the offsite s
dose information coming in from the Licensee's radio was
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being relayed into Unit 1 control room.
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6 getting windspeed direction, dose measurements, and then n
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l giving them to Chic, and Chic was relaying the information N
8 8
over the telephone back to the region.
d 9
g Q
And you were there doing that for how long?
From O
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the time you arrived until --
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A It must have been the better part of the afternoon d
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because I can recall when the -- when the van came, our mobile
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van came, I got involved with running the mobile van for an E
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hour or so, and then got involved with the Licensee's offsite 15 g
teams.
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16 So, to the best of my memory, it was probably the d
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better part of the afternoon, probably maybe till 5:00, 6:00 18
=
o' clock.
5 19 Q
And then what did you do?
20 A
As I recall, I know I got off the island and went 21 to the observation center, and while there I got involved
()
with, like I said, running the mobile lab for a while, and 23,
doing some offsite dose measurements.
I went out with a
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Licensee team, Bill Store had arrived by then and asked me to 25l:
go out with one or two of the teams and see how they were ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
18 1
doing everything, and to check how they were doing it, and see
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2 if they were doing it correctly, and from what I can recall 3
then, I had gotten back into Unit 1 -- I had gone back into Unit O(_/
4 1 control room, because they wanted an offsite dose survey e
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done.
So myself and Smitty -- Ray Smith -- got involved with n
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essentially making a tour, a 360 degree tour, around the e
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7 island and the major highways up to Middletown and over n
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across the Susquehanna and down to Goldsboro, and essentially a
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g got 360 around the island making dose measurements.
0 10 E
So for essentially from like 12:00 midnight to
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7:00 in the morning,. 7:00 in themorning Thursday morning, we c
12 3
were involved in doing dose measurements.
3 13 Q
Then about 7:00 o' clock, you left the island?
E 14 f
A No, I got involved -- I got involved -- we came z
9 15 g
back to the control room and then I got either involved with 16
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2eviewing some release calculations, because they apparently had 6
17 g
some liquid radwaste going out, or I got involved with the M
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radwaste shipment somehow or other, taking -- I'm not sure C
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when that was -- taking a shipment or escorting a shipment to 20 the airport.
Out at the airport.
The Army Air Base.
And I 21 think that was some time Thursdgy morning, maybe early Thursday 22 O-afternoon.
23 i
Q Okay.
And then what did you do?
24
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A Then I was pretty well beat and bedraggled so I 25,
j got a motel room for about an hour or two hours and showered i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
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and slept for about an hour, and then came back to the island,
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2 ar.d by that time they had a lot of additional people there, 3
and I got in -- went back to the control room and just got
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4 involved in reviewing releases and the ssentially logging 5
y information, things of that nature.
I can't recall the a
6 specific one, two, three-things I did; but towards the second
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7 day or third day, we got on a fairly routine schedule where a
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we had shifts, and the shift guy would just go around and d
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look at things and report back to the individual that was on z
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the phone, if there was anything different going on.
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5 II Q
And you were there then Thursday evening until 3
f I2 when did you leave the island then?
4 13
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I can't recall Thursday, because I went on a 14 midnight shift.
I don't really recall when I left the island
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15 on Thursday.
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Did you work through the night and go and leave
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Friday morning?
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I don't recall.
I think I might have worked through A
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the evening and -- no, I think I might have lef t the bland e.
20 Thursday evening because I was to go on a midnight shift and 21 take over a midnight shift.
I'm not really sure, I'd have to 22
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look at my notes, and I didn't bring mu notes with me.
23 1
Q Then you went on a midnight shift and you were 24 l'
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working with Plumlee then?
He was working 4:00 to 12:00.
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I think it might have been Greg Yuhas that came down.
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Greg and I were working the midnights together.
I'm not quite
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3 Q
You think you began those midnight shifts Thursday
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Thursday at midnight, Friday morning, from the best 3
6 of my knowledge.
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BY MR. STELLO:
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Ron, the first time you said you heard hydrogen ud 9
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anything regarding the fact that the containment sprays had E
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come on and they had the engineered safety features come on?
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this and that, and I think that's when he mentioned something 2
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about the sprays going on.
But it might have been even later
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losing track of time there.
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h 19 A
Not that -- I'm almost certain that it was Friday 20 or Saturday or even later than that.
21 Q
Well, if you were on midnights, you would have
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been on midnight starting Thursday night, worked through till 23,
Friday morning?
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A Friday morning.
25[
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And as I recall, that's when it first started to ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
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Is it possible it could have been on Friday morning on that shift?
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from the operations inspectors.
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Well, maybe I could kind of skip a lot of things.
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Did you feel that you were generally appraised or E
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you followed at all the operational information like thermo-e 9
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couples and in-cores and pressure and stuff like that?
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No, we didn't get involved -- primarily my job l
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and what liquid waste activity was going out, and we essentially 20 lef t the operational things to -- it might have occurred to me in passing, because my background is nuke E, I might have 22 been interested in temperatures and things like that, but I
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I was just there for the 24 radiological aspects of it.
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25 Q
If you had heard about something like in-core ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
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thermocouples reading 2000 degrees, would you.have clearly A(-)
rememberedhthat?
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I think I would have.
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Q You don't recall hearing about that?
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No, uh-uh.
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How about if the relief valve were open'for hours?
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Would you have remembered something like n
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Yeah.
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Did you hear about any of that?
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A No.
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things, and we weren't overseeing or looking at anything in
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I was down talking to HP techs and seeing d
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what's going out and where your releases are and things like 18
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that.
N 19 T.2 g Q
Let me ask you some general questions.
Do you 20 feel that Met Ed people generally gave you whatever you asked 21 for?
22 f~)D A
Yeah, I would say so.
I had a couple of problems x
23 which I brought up to Don Neely about one of the HP supervisors
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or something had indicated he was going to do something, or 25 '
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exposure or people were going into areas without RWPs, and I 2
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can recall bring it to his attention two or three times, without 3
any satisfaction, and talking to-Neely about it, and he went
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But outside of -- but it might have
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been because there was a lot of activity going on.
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generally didn't have a real big problem with the people there.
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Did you have the feeling that you were fully
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A Well, like I say, I had only been with the Commission a"
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was going on.
I was essentially just told to go and do some-6 17 thing.
3m 18 Q
Do you feel that anybody ever withheld any informa-s g"
19 tion from you intentionally?
20 A
No, I really didn't get into that -- I didn't get 21 into a situation where that would have occurred, but as far as 22 the people I talked to and what-have-you, I generally got 23 l the information I had requested.
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Did you feel that you had an appreciation for the p'.
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seriousn.ess of the accident?
Now let me explain that.
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guess I see a double meaning in that.
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Not as serious as the accident is known to exist 3
today, but as serious as they felt it was, as best you could
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perceive it?
Was that passed on?
A No.
As far as -- when you say passed on, as far a
3 6
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days to follow, while the operations personnel were trying to a
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they could just work on the operational problems.
But from
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an operational point of view, it looked like they were having d
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a lot of problems.
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releases.
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But I think I perceived a big problem operational-T 16
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17 get water to the core.
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5 18 MR. MOSELEY:
Thanks a lot, Ron.
We appreciate
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your coming down and talking with us today.
20 THE WITNESS:
Sorry I wasn't able to give more 21 information, being one of the people there, but I'll tell you, l
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22 l this thing has really -- has really taught me a lot about, 23 '
you know, keeping accurate and very good notes about what is 24
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going on.
25 l l
(Whereupon, at 4:10 p.m.,
the deposition was adjourned.)
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
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auctr^a arcutaroar coxarssros This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the I&E Investigation Team in the matter of:
TMI Unit 2 Date of Proceeding:
Jan. 12, 1981 Docket Number:
Place of Proceeding:
Bethesda, Maryland were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the Commission.
ANN RILEY Official Reporter (Typed)
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9..
7 Official Reporter (Signature) l l
O l O.
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- - - -.