ML19329E731

Deposition of Jl Bacon (CPC) on 730606 in Washington,D.C. Pp 1-3,6-9,11-12,14-20,25-28,30-37,42-44 & 55

ML19329E731
Person / Time
Site:	Midland
Issue date:	06/06/1973
From:	Bacon J CONSUMERS ENERGY CO. (FORMERLY CONSUMERS POWER CO.)
To:
Shared Package
ML19329E726	List: ML19329E725 ML19329E731
References
NUDOCS 8006170888
Download: ML19329E731 (31)

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.. UNITED STATES OF AMERICA "N

Ay,E/ksb DEFORE Ti!E l-E

. ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION

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In the Matter of u

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Consumers Power Company..'

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-(Midland Unita 1 and 2).

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.,M. -. q M:.", f:. ?'f,.f y. Wednesday, June 6,,

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Deposition of JUDD'L. BACON, a witness of lawful

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age, taken on behalf of the Interven'ers in the above-

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' entitled action, pending before the Atomic Energy Commission, 0._.

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pursuant to Section 2.730(c) of the Commission's Rules-u.

o'f Practice (" Rules"),10 C.F.R. Part 2, before Susan Drake, a notary public in and for the District of Columbia,

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.y at 10:03.a.m. on Wednesday, June 6, 1973.

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Oit bchalf of Consumers Power Company:

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'. i-1 KEITH S. WATSON, ESQ.,'

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..'On. behalf of.'the Dep'aitmen [of' Justice:

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. C. FORREST DANNAN, ESQ. '

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" On behalf of the Interveners:

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~ SPIEGEL & McDIARMID

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Robert A. Jablon, Esq.

Watert' ate Of fice Building 2600 Virginia Avenue, N. W.,,

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Thereupon, J.-

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a witness of lawful age, was' duly sworn'by the notary public,

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being examined by counsel, testified as follows:

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DIRECT EXAMINATION N

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,Can you begin by giving us n' narrative on how the file search was done?

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I object.

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You in'struct him not'to answer?

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. MR. WATSON: ' I object as to the form of the question.

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.Mr. Bacon, we have compiled scme of the discovery g

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. :q documents for our 'wn purposes and I show you any number o

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in a document entitled, For example of them just at random..

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..there is a printed n' umber'on the bottom,. 001977.

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p.' explain the derivation.,of'that'. number?

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On what grounds?.

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Work product.

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Can you explain the derivation of number 221

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Objection.

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not to answer.

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.Can you explain a date on the bottog which says December 8, 19727

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Same objection.

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There are several repositories for Consumers s

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"_A I'Contral. division,' northeast division, northwest f.. ".T...,*

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.and. operating people.

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. And Mr. Raymond said that was 'for legislative

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A We.have a legislative representative who has an n.-

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,I presume so, but'I do not know.

Q Now, going back to the central files.

Do you have separate sub'-files?

How are the files kept?

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Q The central files at 212 Ucst Jackson.

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could find out what the sub-matters were?

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Q Well', would' there have been one-and not be one now?

A-I am merely saying I can't tell you if there is Q

one now.

.I did see one at one point.

.Q And is there somebody in charge of those files?

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. And 'how many peopl'c. work tihere? '

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.Would it'be more like one or 5 or 10 or 507 n

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'officc in the city'of Midlan'd. ' Region' offices.are a' lit'tle C...

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different.

The company's' bulk power operations are' divided

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into geographic regions.

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A In general I think that is true'.

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, Do the secretaries to the major officials generally

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have separate files?

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. Mr. Aymond is chief executive and citairman of the Board of Consumers Power _ Company, is that correct?

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A Yes,'he is chairman of'the Doard'and president.

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Q Where would Mr.'Aymond's ' files be k'ept?

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.Mr. Ayr.tond's files are in his secretary 's of fice.

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iGenerally to coordinate the efforts of the file 1 <

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searchers, to keep track of the search 'and to see that s -..

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it was completed in a timely fashion.

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.'Did you spend full time on'this?.

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. ;..m Approximately how much'of your time did you

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" It would vary,, of course, and I can't put a number q

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.'on it, but it was a relatively small fraction of my time.

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,A You could say that.

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- Who would that be?

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Had you completed your previous

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statement?.

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No.

I was going to say that one of the file searchers who took the lead is within that

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Who was this?

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The question is not germano.

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e I think it is very germane.

If MR.'JABLON:

Mr. Dacon cannot answer all the questions we might want to

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. either corroborate or otherwise. depose these people.

Also

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Also, in your pleadings you have made' mention of the number

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of people who have worked on the file se. arches and we want

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Do you inseeuce them?

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WATSON:

.Let me say for the record,'Mr. Dacon

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completeness, and I therefore maintain my objec' tion and

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 :., y instruct Mr. Dacon not to answer.'.

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BY MR. JADLON:

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Can you. describe in detail how you~went about n..<.

.your coordinating efforts?

Generally through meetings of cobsel and repre-A 5

O sentatives of the departments principally concerned.

9 Q

.Well, what kind of problems would you consider?

n.<..

~

A Interpretations :..:-of the joint requests, the 1

mechanics of'a'ccomplishing the search.

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O

.Did you have periodic reports made to you?

l A

.Can you amplify.what you mean by reports?

.O Yes. ' For example, you just stated that--let me

strike that.

Were any written reports made to you of any kind?

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Q I can't recall any off hand, but there may have been.

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discussions with counsel.

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. Lot.me ask you this.

Wero these meetings

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', or outside attorneys or consultants or w'ere yourself and

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,peopledoingthesearch,orboth?,.',;,'.fy7.,'.ff',',',..f> ?,

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/A It i.ncluded both.

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Q' At th'e same time?

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A Yes.

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Now,' did you have occasion to make written

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' instructions either for your own use or for people doing the search?

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-I.did not.

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Did somebody else? -

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A Yes.

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<.ho'was that?

.As fitr as wri ten instructions are concerned, I

'A believe there were two documents.

One was a letter from our Washington counsel written, I believe, before the joint

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request was received.

The other consisted of an annotated O

version of the joint request.

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O And who were these addressed to?

Wait a minute.

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Beforo I ask that, who di...d the annotated version of tho o nt request?

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You mean who'kept up the document?.

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..you stated that there was another annotated version of it.

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did somebody also make it?

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A Tho' document was physical'ly annotated by one m.

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'of the file searchers.

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.Q Oh,.I see..So the document from the Washington

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counsel was physically annotated by?

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-No..

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Q Okay.

'A The document from the Washington counsel is a letter.

The other document is the annotated version of the

[ joint request of.four documents.

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'Q

'And who did this?

Who annotated it?

MR. WATSON:

Do you mean who was the author of the document of the annotated verrion?

MR. JABLON:

Yes.

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a BY ' MR. JABLON :

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. I tako it the document itself was the joint request, b.

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Yes

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Now, who did the annotating?

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?If you mean physically who did it," it was. one

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of the file' search'ers.

If you are referring to'the source r

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of the annotation, that 1.s not necessarily tho' case,. #It

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might have been advice of counsel.

I th' ink there ma... lso

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t have been instructions or'cl'arification'by.'or.. der of.the

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. Board that w' uld ha've been " included in the annotation.

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,, he Board of Directors of Consumers Power?

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O Of the. Hearing Board, and when you said counsel, do you mean yours or Washington counsel?

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'A' Washington counsel.

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Q And were the sources of these annotations verbal

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or written?.

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..They. could have been either or both, I. don' t recall.

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Now, you mentioned they had about five people s

work on the search of.the central fi) s?

A No.

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About' how many people worked on the

. ~' b search of the central files?

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-Probably two or three.

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". " " Qi Woro',there any supervisory personnul between

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What can you take--did all of these people have s.

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.. the same relative rank within the company?

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' For purposes of the search,'were they company Q

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A..That.in a little difficult to say.

I believe I

.,y mentioned that on.e of the file searchers took the lead in seeing that it was carried'out.

I Elon' t ' recall whether r

he was one of the pcirsons who scarched the general files v.

or not.

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. And who was this?

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Objection.

• MR. WATSON:

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BY MR. JABLON:

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Q Can you--but this person who took the lead may or

.S may not-have been engaged in the' search of the general files?

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.A Correct.

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' Assuming he did not or she did not, would the s

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other people,doing the search have,roported to him or

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v directly to you?

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.I take it you don't mean organizational 1y?

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, And' reported in what sense?...Do you mean if they

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had a problem orwhat they did with the documents or what?

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.Either way.

Let's break it down.

Suppose they' A

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had a problem.

What kind of problem would they be likely,'

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or let me strike that question.

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problems did they have?

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' As I recall, the biggest problem was j est physically

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.trying to completc the search within' thin time allotted.

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- 0 IIow about probit ns of interpretations?

Would they

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A They might.

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'O And this other person would then report to you?

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-On problems of interpretation?

Q Yes.

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.A Not necessarily.

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.Whom would that un-named person report'to?

A He might discusa the problem with Washington O.

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counsel.

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Directly?

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yes,

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Would,he either discuss it with Washington counsel v

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f. o. r.'with 'yourself?

Was there,anybody elso he might report p.

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with the General ~

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.Is there anybody else apart from legal'who might

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.t be,said to act in a supervisory position over him?

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A Directly over him?

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.O Directly or indirectly.

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A Organizationally the General Counsel reports to a senior vice president.

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0 Incidentally, would this person have been a lawyer?

'A Would what person have been a lawyer?

Q The person we are talking about.

A The senipr vice president?

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2-Q The person who may or may not have. participated 1

- in the central office file search?

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O IIe is.an attorney.

lIow'would you describe the other two people who were working on this search in terms r

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of type of position?

Were they clerks, were they attorneys,

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were they accountants?

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Well, first of. all',* let me make it cicar,'J an'd I

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think I did at' the outset,

- I am not sure exactly how many

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peopic participated in the search.of the goncral files.

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-I think the searchers of the general files were prob' ably

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... all attorneys, but not necessarily.

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' I refer y.ou to Consumers ~ Power's motion for i.-

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'can ' order modifying procedural schedule. ' I.believe'it

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..is dated December 22, 1972, and particularly to pages 3

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through 5.

Incidentally, are you familiar with this' document?

'I believe I was a.t the time..

A

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I would have to read

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it again.

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Q Lot me--you may r'end th'c whole document, of course, of you uish, but let me call your attention specifically

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to page 3 and really page 4 where it states two company attorneys were assigned to the search on a full-time basis

. hile another senior attorney and other non-legal personnel w

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also contributed significantly in time and effort.

Have

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• I believe so.

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.. And also on page 5 where it states that another

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company attorney was committed to work full-time on,the l

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affidavit, what files ha'd been searched as of,the ^da.t.e' of

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The non-legal personnpl as well as the '

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.( attorneys would.have participated in. searching,the, files c

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. J11sted as having been completed.at that time, and I cannot,..

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. *:,..tell you now which of those' files was scarched'by which s

" individuals except I believe the officers'. files to have

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been scarched by attorneys only.

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'A. _

BY MR. JABLON:

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!Q

-And"'were the no'n-l.egal employees and %he legal

" employees working on a company, equal basis in terms of,

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function?

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A Can you clarify that?

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10 What were the position's,of the non-legal employees

, in the company?

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A., And I take it the non-legal employees you are s'

referring to are the three that are mentioned on page 5 that assisted the attorneys on a full-time basis?

i Q

That is correct.

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A 1

As I recall, they were from two different depart-ments.

One was from the rate department and I believe the

)

other two were from the generation and transmission area.

'O And would they have had a college educatio:.

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I believe so, although I am not sure of one of

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the two from the gen'eration and transmission area.

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- ' But in ariy event they'would have been of what u

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you consider pr,ofe'ssio,nal. stature, is that correct?,

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atature?

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Well,, what,would their'r.ank be in the company?

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I', don ',t..r. ecall t.h..eir titles.

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Q Now, when, you answ.ered that there were two or three attorneys working on the' general files, two or three persons, g

were you referring to these three attorneys referred to in the sentence,"To deal with this situation another attorney O

was committed to work full-time on.the project December'4, 1972, and all three attorneys were ordered to work overtime."?

'A' As I indicated before, I am not sure exactly who did search the general. files, although I believe I said s

it may have been two or three different persons and they were probably those attorneys.

..Q'

. Incidentally, would you have been any one of these

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persons listed?'

'A As working full-time?

O Yes.

Q A.

On this search, no, I was not one of the file

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I searchers.

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Wotil.ti you have been the senior attornov referred

.to on page 4 in the clause, "...while another senior a'ttorney g

.and other non-legal personnel also contributed significantly W

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in time and effort..."?

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'I'believe so.

,e 0--

How, in t he search of.the general files, did the search proceed file by file?

Let me withdraw that question.

When you proceeded to search the central files--

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.I did not search the central files or the general a

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.' files. '

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'When Consumers Power proceeded to search the general files, they had a list of document requests, is that

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. correct, the joint request?

F

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.A I believe so.

O Now, did they go down question by question and go to certain files first by sub-matter or did they go

'through the files one by one attempting to sco if any of

.the documents ract any. of the questions or did they use some

.other method of' organization?

A I' believe it was the second method that you

. ',.3 mentioned.

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.In other words, they generally read through each document, is'that correct?

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A That is not.wh'at I said.

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'I am sorry. Would,you please explain how they

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proccoded?

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A' I boliove thc6*to havo searched it filo by filo and

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..: they would have pulled'documentis. they belicved to be responsive e ~.:...,,,..fi ;.

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Q So in other words they went,from drawer to drawer

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')' essentially or shcif to shelf or however it'is kept?

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.-Do you,know?

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No, I was not there.

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'Was it discussed?~

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It may have been.

I can't recall a' specific conversation.

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. Did eithe'r you or anybody else give instructions on how it was to proceed?

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'I don't recall whether the procedure was covered in the letter from Washington counsel that I mentioned earlier.

It may have been.

It may also have been decided on in informal discussions.

.Q" O

Why'didn't you simply go to certain sub-categories?

hn. WATSON:

...ho is the "you" you are referring W

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For' instance, our effort'atthe occasions when we did.

'. outset of 'the. search was to produce documents responsive c..

'to the asterisk items in'the' request.' - E' 2.

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' DY MR. JADLON':

'Does that 'complet'e 'your Statement or answer?

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' There could also have be'en dther instances where

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'.had general responsibility for it, would that be yourself?

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' MR WATSON:

'part of the question but I will permit the witness to answer the first part of the question.

.THE WITNESS:

Yes, in the sense of seeing that

'the efforts of the personnel concerned were coordinated

- and seeing that the search went forward in a time)y fashion.

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'.'BY MR. JABLON:

Did anybody clos ly supervise your efforts?

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Was there any occasion where it was called to your attention or somebody elses attention to your knowledge i

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Excuse me.

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I can't recall an' instance of that.

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• withhold for reasons of legal privilege?

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Withheld from what?

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ADLON:

Withheld from the Department of

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,. Justice interveners or'the AEC.,

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WATSON:

You mean with$ eld by the company or withheld by Washington counsel?

MR. JABLON:

Either one.

Off the record.

MR. WATSON:

Back on the record.

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I am advised that Washington counsel

.did witnhold some such documents but I don't know of any that were so withheld from the documents that were trans-

.mitted from tno company to Washington counsel.

BY MR. JABLON:

O Incidentally, before today were you aware of e

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Would you define the word "workpapers"?

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Work product..

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work vroauce-r-

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Withheld by Washington counsel.

BY MR. JABLON:

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Q Well, I take it you have stated that Jackson counsel, if I can make the difference, did not withhold any document on any ground of pri.vilege or legal objection,

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>is that' correct?

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O Would you have known if they had?

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' Q Who would?

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Objection.

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Would it be the people making the search?

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Were any documents withheld-on the grounds that

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With whom?

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No, negotiations with whom?

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You. asked it.~

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Any kind of privilege whatsoever

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which Consumers ~ werwompany,or the individue1 miehe raise

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'as a reason for not supplying the document?

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. THE WITNESS:

I said I didn't'know of any and

'that is still my answer.

MR. JABLON:

Off the record.

,' (Discussion held off the rec'ord.)

-MR. JABLON :

Back on the record.

~! BY MR. JABLON :

Q Apart from grounds of non-responsiveness, do you

.know of any reason apart from those mentioned why any documents were withheld from the Department of Justice, the interveners, or the AEC', staff which came.under the joint

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What matter are you referring to?

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Back on the record.

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THE WITNESS:

The only one that comes to mind as a possible subject of discussion was the matter of withholding a document or documents relating to current negotiations

~~

which could have been mentioned in the course of a con-versation with Washington counsel.

' BY MR. JABLON:

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Q '

In the motion for order modifying procedural O

schedule which we discussed previously, you state that at l

that time--by you I mean Consumers Power--states that at l

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.that time the applicant sent about 39,000 p' ages of documents ll.

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'Do. you understand the quAstion?

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I think I do.

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Why don't you atate..what you-think.

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My understanding'of the question

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counsel.

MR. JABLON:

Yes.

Incidentally, were fewer 4

documents submitted to the part than to Washington counsel?

TIIE WITNESS:

I believe that to be the case, yes.

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.Now,'did you know approximately how many were submitted?

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.To the other parts?

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..To the other parts.

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A I recall someone saying it was in the.n.eighborhood of 25,000 document pages.

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.I.want to consult with my client.

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c-9 THE UITNESS:

I think these were generally screened

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Q, Did you do that?

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. I believe that to be the case. - Now, if a file searcher was going through a file and saw ten copies of the a

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. same report,of the identical report, pull only one.

Regarding items two and three, that is, that the 1

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fruits of the search may have been more all-inclusive than i

i Washington counsel deemed relevant and that certain documents O

may have been withheld on grounds of privilege, were you

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that is, to withh'olding a l consulted on these decisions, t

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is'that correct?

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'.1 "Did the same people who searched the general'officos O'

search the [livision and other regional offices?

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region offices and area offices were generally searched by 1so have the attoritcys but one of the non-legal persorn may participated in that.

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. Were there any instances where anybody who had searched the general officos das present at the search of 1

Let me any other office which happened to be scarched?

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That is all.

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Were there any O

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one you mentioned of the mechanical scope of-T:onpiling the y.

documents during the file scarch?.

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I think the mechanics of getting it done

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