ML19329E731

Deposition of Jl Bacon (CPC) on 730606 in Washington,D.C. Pp 1-3,6-9,11-12,14-20,25-28,30-37,42-44 & 55

ML19329E731
Person / Time
Site:	Midland
Issue date:	06/06/1973
From:	Bacon J CONSUMERS ENERGY CO. (FORMERLY CONSUMERS POWER CO.)
To:
Shared Package
ML19329E726	List: ML19329E725 ML19329E731
References
NUDOCS 8006170888
Download: ML19329E731 (31)

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.'. . UNITED STATES OF AMERICA "N . .'

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.'. . ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION .

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. ".Q . '.';'t., Do.cket Nos . 50-329A Consumers Power Company.

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M:.", f:. ?'f,.f y . Wednesday, June 6,, 1973

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Deposition of JUDD'L. BACON, a witness of lawful

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age, taken on behalf of the Interven'ers in the above- - ~

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< pursuant to Section 2.730(c) of the Commission's Rules- .

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o'f Practice (" Rules") ,10 C.F.R. Part 2, before Susan Drake, a notary public in and for the District of Columbia,

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at 10:03.a.m. on Wednesday, June 6, 1973.

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Oit bchalf of Consumers Power Company: ..

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. C. FORREST DANNAN , ESQ..c' ,

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Anti-Trust' Division Y,,* ,'

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" On behalf of the Interveners: '

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~ SPIEGEL & McDIARMID

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.Dy: Robert A. Jablon, Esq. '; - .;

Watert' ate Of fice Building  ;-- ,

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". Washington, D. C. 20037 - - -

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" "' .. . 'JUDD L. BACON a witness of lawful age, was' duly sworn'by the notary public, -.

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. being examined by counsel, testified as follows:

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.- DIRECT EXAMINATION

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-Q ,Can you begin by giving us n' narrative on how . .... - ,

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the file search was done?

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. MR. WATSON: ' I object as to the form of the question.

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.Mr. Bacon, we have compiled scme of the discovery l

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- documents for our 'wn o purposes and I show you any number ,.

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of them just at random.. For example in a document entitled,

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'. ..there is a printed n' umber'on the bottom,. 001977. -

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On what grounds? .

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Can you explain the derivation of number 221

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I ' instruct the witness

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not to answer. It is a work producit. '

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.Can you explain a date on the bottog

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which says December 8, 19727 .

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.. O Is there a general repository for Consumers

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"_A I'Contral . division,' northeast division, northwest f.. " .T. . . ,*. , ..

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. . ;, ., $ : ..!-.....e, division, Jackson, division.e g . .t r , n :,%. . .;. .:-" . * . .

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.' .7 ; . Q . ': 6 And what are the purposcs.'of those divisions?

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has split its service .ter.,ritory into geographic areas,

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ffice with a division'mancger and.. customer service people

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. . ,;. .A Yes, we do.  :  :, ' . .;.. : .

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. And Mr. Raymond said that was 'for legislative

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And there'would be files there?

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A ,I presume so, but'I do not know. .

Q Now, going back to the central files. Do you have separate sub'-files? How are the files kept? -

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'sub-matte..r oi. by date or both or- ,;

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could find out what the sub-matters were?

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was.

Q Well', would' there have been one- and not be one now? . . .

A- I am merely saying I can't tell you if there is Q one now. .I did see one at one point. '

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.t he ' files in the Jackson division.

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1. 4 Q Incidentally,.what'is the difference between - -

.. . .*.  ;.. .,.. . . .: .c . . s ;. ,,

.a division office. and an area and region office? . a.- . .

t .. .

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A An area office would be . .,;

a smaller office. ,within

- .. 2 ,. 4. . . y . . .

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'a division. For example, the' northwest division is an area

'.;p- .

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'officc in the city'of Midlan'd. ' Region' offices.are a' lit'tle C... .

-; . . + ...

y - . . .. .

.... different. The company's' bulk power operations are' divided . .

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into geographic regions. ' - e '

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-:. . . . , .a . ; . ..n. l . ; 7. .

e ..,; . .- .. .

- ^

. . i . , - . . . ' , :; . ' '. . Q Does.that complete your answer? . ,  : 7,'f 7 ,- -

s. .

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v. . . .. . ..,,: 2 .

, . .. 6. , . . . .-

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...- ..<.t.. . 56 ., . x: .;-

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.. 'Q 'Now, I.take it each major company executive would ha've his own files, is that correct? -

s .~ . . . ..

' ~ '

A In general I think that is true'. , s Q And these would generally be kept in their offices

. - .~ . . - . ., .

.or in their section offices? .

~z.

. v. , . a

-A' 'Yes. .

T O , Do the secretaries to the major officials generally

^

~

a_ . . ~~

have separate files? * '." .s-

- +

- A "I do not know. -

.. s.

Q . Mr. Aymond is chief executive and citairman of the Board of Consumers Power _ Company, is that correct?

., . .y. .

A Yes,'he is chairman of'the Doard'and president.

O

- ~ -

Q Where would Mr.'Aymond's ' files be k'ept? -

A .Mr. Ayr.tond's files are in his secretary 's of fice.

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iGenerally to coordinate the efforts of the file 1 <

. ; ., . , .g.' ., .'.. . . ... ..

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searchers, to keep track of the search 'and to see that -

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it was completed in a timely fashion.

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.'Did you spend full time on'this? .+.

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. O Approximately how much'of your time did you -

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b.

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~

.. - . devote to this? n..:' "..l 8.s:' . ~

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. , . , f... j" : n...'..A' " It would vary,, of course, and I can't put a number q

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.'on it, but it was a relatively small fraction of my time.

. . .s

.* ,

• y. ., . * .- - . *

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,, .O Was there a person'who was in operational charge

< .. s . . . .

of it as opposed to a. coordinating or more removed supervision?

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,A You could say that.

6 . ,

/ '

. . .Q_ - Who would that be? ,

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./ ,

.MR. WATSON: Had you completed your previous 3.>. . .

. .., . ~ ... , - -

. . statement? . . .

.. l

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- , THE WITNESS: No. I was going to say that one of the file searchers who took the lead is within that

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section that the search was carried out in. .

c .. .

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Who was this?

- s ' MR. JADLON : '

].

~

MR. WATSON: . Obj ection . The question is not

'y_ ,

germano. .

., e -

. . MR.'JABLON: I think it is very germane. If

. - Mr. Dacon cannot answer all the questions we might want to

.e. . .

. . . /

,. . either corroborate or otherwise. depose these people. Also

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Also, in your pleadings you have made' mention of the number

- . ,.z....

of people who have worked on the file se. arches and we want

, .: . : ~ ;, ,

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O to find out who ther are. . . Do . . . -

you inseeuce them? -

u .,

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.Let me say for the record,'Mr. Dacon

,. -,"!MR. WATSON:

,, . . ,. , i,: '

.has answered the questions.to date, I.think with some

.- . , .gj * , ?,/ ,

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completeness, and I therefore maintain my objec' tion and

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t..

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3.*

instruct Mr. Dacon not to answer.' . '#.<*.

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.  :>  :- ' . 'u' . . - -

. ?:. . %-L. '

s' .  : BY MR. JADLON: .

, A. .,.w'. v ' . . ' . ' ' " , . . .Jt.".r . e - . .

a .. . . .

O Can you. describe in detail how

, n ..< .

you~went about

.your coordinating efforts? . ..

A 5 Generally through meetings of cobsel and repre-  ;

O sentatives of the departments principally concerned. -

l 9

Q .Well, what kind of problems would you consider?

.- ,.;~

n.<..

A Interpretations :. .:-of the joint requests, the 1 mechanics of'a'ccomplishing the search.

- s .n. .

I

.Did you have periodic reports made to you?

O I

., , . . - l A .Can you amplify.what you mean by reports?

.O Yes. ' For example, you just stated that--let me

.,- l

strike that. Were any written reports made to you of any kind? .

~

. .- . 1 A ' I can't recall any off hand, but there may have Q -

been. *

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discussions with counsel. *

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.O . Lot.me ask you this.

Wero these meetings .,

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likely to be with people on your own sle'vol'and.su.perior.

rank.

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' , or outside attorneys or consultants or w'ere yourself and

. v . . , . , . ( '; , .,c. ..

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. ,peopledoingthesearch,orboth?,.',;,'.fy7.,'.ff',',',..f>

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It i.ncluded both.

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. . . . . :...s Q' At th'e. , .same time? . j ., " J. s t. ' - , j' ' '[ . f,"

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"Also coparately, I take it?

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A Yes.

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Q Now,' did you have occasion to make written

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' instructions either for your own use or for people doing the search?

. v. .  ;.. . .

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A -I.did not. '*

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Q. :Did somebody else? - },

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A Yes. '

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. O W

<.ho'was that?

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.As fitr as wri ten instructions are concerned, I

'A believe there were two documents. One was a letter from .

our Washington counsel written, I believe, before the joint ~

request was received.

The other consisted of an annotated O .

version of the joint request. ~

~

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O And who were these addressed to? Wait a minute.

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Beforo I ask that, who di...d the annotated version of tho n.

o nt request? ... .

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'. A You mean who'kept up the document? . -

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. .,..- _t" .0 I mean you said that the Washington counsel had

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. T..' + T." written a letter before'the joint' request and I believe

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..you stated that there was another annotated version of it.

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-. , , ~ .;'.#: , . ' . ' .;Was'

. ;u. . ,-y ~., this annotated .

version. from ,

y the Washington

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.,,counsel or did somebody also make it? ' -

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. , - A Tho' document was physical'ly annotated by one

.,. ., . m. ,.. .

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'of the file searchers. .

a-

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.' .Q Oh,.I see. .So the document from the Washington counsel was physically annotated by?

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.v

. ..~.

- +

-No. .

A .

e. -

Q Okay.

'A The document from the Washington counsel is a letter. The other document is the annotated version of the .

[ joint request of.four documents. ~ '

. 'Q 'And who did this?

Who annotated it? .

MR. WATSON: Do you mean who was the author of the document of the annotated verrion?

. MR. JABLON: Yes. .

O

' ~

- a . .- .: ' '

BY ' MR. JABLON :

O . I tako it the document itself was the joint request,

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? ',. -. . '._v is that correct? '

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A. Yes

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O~ Now, who did the annotating? .

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(

'A .,

?If you mean physically who did it," it was. one . - -

>. .s . :g .., . . . . . -

of the file' search'ers.

If you are referring to'the source r  :. ~

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of the annotation, that 1.s not necessarily tho' case,. #It

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• , i I th' ink there ma..ya

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~

might have been advice of counsel.

t . ' . . . . . . - . -+ -

have been instructions or'cl'arification'by.'or.. der of.the .

~

. Board that w'o uld ha've been " included in the annotation. .

.s.

. .i...

c.,

Q , , The Board of Directors of Consumers Power?

..l

~

., A -.~ No, !! caring Board.

e. 'l, .

. O Of the. Hearing Board, and when you said counsel,

., do you mean yours or Washington counsel? - -

. :~

'A' ~

Washington counsel. -

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i

-. . ., l

~

Q And were the sources of these annotations verbal

= . ,

or written?. - 4- *

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, .y. ...., . .

..They. could have been either or both,

-A I. don' t .

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recall. .

• ~ . ' '. -;, -

. . . , c

' . f. .

O Now, you mentioned they had about five people s

work on the search of.the central fi) s? .

. A No.

.. ::+

O- .

O I am sorry.

4. .

About' how many people worked on the

.. '. ~'r..b search of the central files? .... . ,

.i .

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4-

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. , .. . . et .

,.y.:

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• - -Probably two or three. l 9 , . .. .' ' ' s. , ..',' t' O.

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i

, , . , ~Q Is that including yourself? .- .

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" . " " Qi

. Woro',there any supervisory personnul between

. a. . -

. - : .: .. . - ,e . . .

(..~

. ?. . . . . .

g,f..Jyoubscif and these two or three people?

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' Q .

What can you take--did all of these people have .

s. *. , -

. . ,. . , . ,. . .c.:. ,... o. .,

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' , "; .. .u; . . : . . the same relative rank within the company? -

.. . . w . . , . . , . . +.

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N.;. .' -Q

} ' ' . , ' .A ;I believe so'. ' ' N ', '. .Y;, .. . .

.. . ... s , .,-

. . .e , .

Q ' For purposes of the search,'were they company

, . ~

/,

. . . :;. :. e .. . .;..- ..

equals? '

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.- , . .. , ..n .

, ,  ?

.c. .

.. .3, .

A . .That.in a little difficult to say. I believe I

.,y , . . ., .

mentioned.. that on.e of the file searchers took the lead in seeing that it was carried'out. I Elon' t ' recall whether -

r .

he was one of the pcirsons who scarched the general files

v. . ,

. . t,' t .*  %

or not. " ' .

- ';-  ; c .

'. ,. *c-

~. '

Q. . And who was this? ..'

s. ,.

. ~

~ ', . .

'. *

• MR. WATSON: Objection. ..

.~ .

.J ,

BY MR. JABLON: .' -

~ . . . .

, Q Can you--but this person who took the lead may or

. .S '

may not-have been engaged in the' search of the general files?

J. '

Q .

- L

- .A Correct.

.i.,'-

.. . t .

O ' Assuming he did not or she did not, would the s .

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other people,doing the search have,roported to him or , . . . -

' 4... v ..t.

- directly to you? *

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. , , , , , . .. ..  ;. p e. 4 . g .,,

~'  ;., . . .

O_ A .I take it you don't mean organizational 1y? -

- - ~ * (

7,;

. "_1, 0 No, I mean functionally. ". -

. J.'s . J r. ';].  ; .-

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~ . . . ..

-l _ ;, .

.- . rg . . . .

. A, , And' reported in what sense? . ..Do you mean if they -

\; )- '

, - , _..,1. .

had a problem orwhat they did with the documents or what?

a.. . .. ,.

.. O.. .Either way. Let's break it down. Suppose they' A

.--.-l-

' , . , . q . ; ' ., . h q,(

-~;. . . .

" x., -

.. . had a problem. What kind of problem would they be likely ,'

.e .,.,.- ,

y. . .

.to have? or let me strike that question. What kind cf i... , . - -

. . .c .: + . : - . .- .

problems did they have?

.' , .. A' ' As I recall, the biggest problem was j est physically

.. . .: . . .  : .u. . ,.

, .trying to completc the search within' thin time allotted. ,

"C

- 0 . .

IIow about probit ns of interpretations?

,.s .

Would they

,' . c' first go to this other person? ' '

' ~

.,. _ . . , ' . f, . .'r:. s,,.

. A They might. *

, . ; s. . .

- 4 - -

. 'O And this other person would then report to you? '

. A -On problems of interpretation? '

Q Yes. - -

/

. 1,. ~ , ~ .- ., .

.A Not necessarily. ..

^ -

I

.Q .

.Whom would that un-named person report'to?

A He might discusa the problem with Washington O.

~

counsel. .,

a -

x -

. . s -

, O Directly? -

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yes, <7 ...

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, . . .... . , ., . . . . , , . a. .... , . . . . . .

. . ; O '. Would ,he either discuss it with Washington counsel

)

., v .... ..

,g. . , . . .. -

i,~ . ..

. ,JU f. o. r.'with 'yourself? Was there,anybody elso he might report p.

. " ~ ~... '

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., .A- with the General ~

,., Ire ~could have. . ,discussed'it:

. ~

...4

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..5. 3.

y:s . : '.C. o un s el ,

., ? . +

.. .....- ...r.

^s .

.Q

,' <, ,j .

.Is there anybody else apart from legal'who might

. . a., ..

,, ,. .t .

be,said to act in a supervisory position over him?

w. .

v. . ., ~

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.f .

.. . A ,

Directly over him? ,.^- ,

_ .'f a , : .

( . *

(. ,

..g

.- .O Directly or indirectly. . c,

. + . . , .

..' A Organizationally the General Counsel reports to .

, . a senior vice president. -

s. .

0 Incidentally, would this person have been a lawyer?

'A Would what person have been a lawyer?

Q The person we are talking about. -

• A The senipr vice president?

< e .

2- 1

, Q The person ..

who may or may not have. participated l

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- in the central office file search?

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,. O IIe is.an attorney. lIow'would you describe the l

other two people who were working on this search in terms

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of type of position? Were they clerks, were they attorneys, ,

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were they accountants? -

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think I did at' the outset, - I am not sure exactly how many

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peopic participated in the search.of the goncral files. ,; .. .

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. . -I think the searchers of the general files were prob' ably  ;,

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. . . all attorneys, but not necessarily.

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.,. ' I refer y.ou to Consumers ~ Power's motion for Q i.-

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'can ' order modifying procedural schedule. ' I.believe'it .

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..is dated December 22, 1972, and particularly to pages 3 ,

.';. through 5.

Incidentally, are you familiar with this' document? .

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A .

'I believe .-I was - . .

a.t the time..

I would have to read

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it again. ,,

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Lot me--you may r'end th'c whole document, of course, Q . .

of you uish, but let me call your attention specifically

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e to page 3 and really page 4 where it states two company

. attorneys were assigned to the search on a full-time basis

.' .w hile another senior attorney and other non-legal personnel

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also contributed significantly in time and effort. Have -

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A *I* believe so. .

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-Q .. And also on page 5 where it states that another

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company attorney was committed to work full-time on,the ,, .. ; l

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. s affidavit, what ..

files ha'd been searched as of ,the ^da.t.e' of

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the document. .

The non-legal personnpl as well as the ' 7,;.

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.( attorneys would.have participated in. searching,the, files c -

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. J11sted as having been completed.at that time, and I cannot,.. .-

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• , . -..tell .

you now which .

of ,.., -

those' files was .

scarched'by which .

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" individuals except I believe. .the . . . .

officers'. files ,o . . .

to have ..

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been scarched by attorneys only.

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BY,.MR. JABLON: . 5..t.;.$..y'"%.*Aj',~

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!Q -And"'were the no'n-l.egal employees and %he legal

" employees working on a company, equal basis in terms of ,

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.r. function? ..- 1<; - *

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Can you clarify that?

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10 What were the position's,of the non-legal employees

, , in the company? '

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, And I take it the non-legal employees you are s' -

referring to are the three that are mentioned on page 5 ,

that assisted the attorneys on a full-time basis?

i Q That is correct.

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A As I recall, they were from two different depart-1 ments. One was from the rate department and I believe the

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other two were from the generation and transmission area.

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the two from the gen'eration

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- ' But in ariy event u they'would have been of what

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Well,, .. what ,would their'r.ank be in the company?

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- Q - Now, when, you answ.ered that there were two or three attorneys working on the' general files, two or three persons,

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. were you referring to these three attorneys referred to in the sentence,"To deal with this situation another attorney O was committed to work full-time on.the project December'4,

.' . 1972, and all three attorneys were ordered to work overtime."? '

, 'A' As I indicated before, I am not sure exactly who did search the general . files, although I believe I said s

it may have been two or three different persons and they were probably those attorneys. . .

..Q' . Incidentally, would you have been any one of these )

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. persons listed?' .

'A As working full-time? -

O Yes. - '

Q A. On this search, no, I was not one of the file

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searchers. ^

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i Wotil.ti you have been the senior attornov referred Q

.to on page 4 in the clause, "...while another senior a'ttorney g ..

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.and other non-legal personnel also contributed significantly

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in time and effort..."? -

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. * - . ' . . A' 'I'believe so. .' '

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,- 0-- How, in t he search of .the general files , did the search proceed file by file? ,

Let me withdraw that question.

When you proceeded to search the central files--

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A .I did not search the central files or the general

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.' files. ' )' '

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O 'When Consumers Power proceeded to search the general files, they had a list of document requests, is that ,,

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. correct, the joint request? ,

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.A I believe so. ,

. O Now, did they go down question by question and go to certain files first by sub-matter or did they go

'through the files one by one attempting to sco if any of '

. .the documents ract any. of the questions or did they use some

.other method of' organization? ,

A I' believe it was the second method that you mentioned.

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. , O .In other words, they generally read through each document, is'that correct? .

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proccoded? .

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A' I boliove thc6*to havo searched it filo by filo and 4, .

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..: they would have pulled'documentis. they belicved to be responsive

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So in other words they went,from drawer to drawer

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')' essentially or shcif to shelf or however it'is kept?

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.A*. . No, I was not there. *

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, ,7, A It may have been. I can't recall a' specific conversation. ..

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. Did eithe'r you or anybody else give instructions

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- c, 7 A 'I don't recall whether the procedure was covered .

in the letter from Washington counsel that I mentioned -

earlier. It may have been. It may also have been decided on in informal discussions. . .

.Q" Why'didn't you simply go to certain sub-categories?

O hn. WATSON: .~.

...ho W is the "you" you are referring to? ' ' $

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For' instance, our effort'atthe occasions when we did.  ; . .. . .

'. outset of 'the. search was to ...

produce documents responsive -  ;

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'to the asterisk items in'the' request.'-- E' 2.

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<- . .s ' DY MR. JADLON':

'Does that 'complet'e 'your Statement or answer?

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'I There could also N,have be'en dther instances .. -

where -

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-we' were looking for docume'nts

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relating to a particular

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. question. ..... .

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Would you say

'I would likc~to clarify.your role.

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'.' that you were in charge of the scarch?

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.lIn the way I have described, it was a general q, ,

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. supervision. I was not in charge of the physical searching

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',. of an area that I would be there when the.- search was made. .

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.But if there was one person in t ehcompany who Q' -

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' .had general responsibility for it, would that be yourself? F

.*. m And'if not, who would it be? . .

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' MR WATSON: I am going to object'to the second

'part of the question but I will permit the witness to answer the first part of the question.

.THE WITNESS:

Yes, in the sense of seeing that l

'the efforts of the personnel concerned were coordinated . .

- and seeing that the search went forward in a time)y fashion.

O

'.'BY MR. JABLON: -

. l

'.Q

Did anybody clos ly supervise c ,%

your efforts?

. A Well, I would report directly'to'the General Counsel

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v And you do'so anyway? ' <

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Would you report to him on a ' periodic basis with

- .A

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regard to this file search? .~~~.'

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Not necessarily on a periodic ~.basis in the sense ,,,

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that there was a regular interval of time.

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,;, ' *But frequently? [, ,'. S;

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~A I can't recall., I believe it to have varied with '

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the time. '

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O Okay. Now, there wcro a number of people reading

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the documents from the general files. They had these an,-,

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notations, is that correct? In going throug the documents

~

.they had the annotations to guide them?

c A I believe so. " . rc b. -

Q And these were prepared by an attorney or at .

least checked or assempled. ,by an attorney, is that correct? .

a, .

A 'Yes.

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Q When a person went to a file, did he read cach . .

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document? ..

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.If a person thought a docume.nt might . .. . > ... ; , .  ;, .

be relevant,

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did he read that document?

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physically present.

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.,-..:,Now,.,.w, . - - ...hat . . , . would have been- .done with the document

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..: . . . ..which was thought to be relevant? .

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'.It would.have b6cn pulled from the' file.

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. ,'  ; ;Q ' And. then'whati . happened, r..to it? . .

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.A- Well, when a-snumber of'them had been gathered g

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, Q~ ,.So the documents were assembled in Jackson and

, sent directly .to Washington counsel? , . .

~Ai* .I believe so. s O And there was no additional review in Jackson?

'A Beyond the file scarcher's review? , .

Boyond'the' file searcher's review.

Q i.

A I believe that is so.

m .

O Was there any occasion where it was called to your i attention or ~

somebody elses attention to your knowledge . .

'that there was question whether to send a particular document or. documents? - -

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' MR. WATSON:

Excuse me. I am a little confused

,, . . =  :.

t b'y the question, counsel. .Perhaps we can clear it up. ,

.: < ~;

.1You mean af ter they had been extracted by a file searchcr?

~

. MR. JABLON : That is correct.

~

.~ . . , . . ..

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TIIE WITNESS : Would you read the question back?

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\ ,' '. (The question was read back.)

), . . , , . ,

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f THE. WITNESS:

d - :

I can't recall an' instance of that.

,._