ML19308C568
| ML19308C568 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 10/29/1979 |
| From: | Hartman H, Ornstein H METROPOLITAN EDISON CO., NRC - NRC THREE MILE ISLAND TASK FORCE |
| To: | |
| References | |
| TASK-TF, TASK-TMR NUDOCS 8001280597 | |
| Download: ML19308C568 (58) | |
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NUCLE AR REGULATORY COMMISSION O.
3 IN THE MATTER OF:
THREE MILE ISLAND SPECIAL INQUIRY DEPOSITIONS i
a P
DEPOSITION OF HAROLD WAYNE HARTMAN, JR.
O Place -
Lancaster, Pennsylvania Date -
Monday, October 2.9, 1979 Pages 1 - 57 p
g o c 10 lD T fh o c M e M A XlnL=
Terephone:
(202)347-3700 ACE - FEDERAL REPORTERS,INC.
OfficialReporters 444 North Capitol Street 8001280 9 7 l
Washington, D.C. 20001 i
NATIONWIDE COVERAGE DAILY
[
UNITED STATES NU_ CLEAR REGULATOR _Y,COMMIS_SION THREE MILE _ ISLAND SPECIAL INQUIRY DEPOSITION O
V The deposition of HAROLD WAYNE HARTMAN,JR.,
taken~at the Yorkshire Room of the Quality Inn, 500 Centerville Road, Lancaster, Pennsylvania 17601 on
- Monday, October 29, 1979 commencing at or about 7: 00 o' clock a.m.
APPE ARANCES :
HAROLD L. ORNSTEIN Taking the Deoosition on behalf of the USNRC Special Inquiry 3
Group
!!O i
JOHN M.
SMITH, ESQUIRE 21 North Duke Street Lancaster, Pennsylvania (717-394-3704)
Appearing'on behalf of the Deponent f
O OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
)
LANCastan CoWMTV COWRT MCUSS LANCASTER PENNSYLVANIA 1
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INDEX TO WITNESSES 1
WITNESS PAGE HAROLD WAYNE HARTMAN, JR.
i BY MR. ORNSTEIN 4
4 O
1 I
1 l
i l
O 1
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l OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LAseCASTER COUNTV COU4T HOUSS '
LANCASTER. PENNSYLVANI A
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INDEX TO EXIIIBITS EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE IDENTIFIED
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1-1201 Letter of October 17, 1979 4
1202 A Document 9
1203 A Document 11 1204 Document Containing Various 19 Exams 1205 A Letter 53 4
O i
s 9
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l OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER Lasecastra COUNTT Count MOUS$
LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
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P ROCEED I N-G S (Whereupon, at or about 7: 00 o'cloc t p.m., in the Yorkshire Room, the Quality Inn, 500 cente c-ville Road', Lancaster, Pennsylvania, on Monday, October 29, 1979, the following proceedings transpired:)
MR. ORNSTEIN:
Raise your right han d.
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you. God ?
THE WITNESS:
I do.
EXAMINATION BY MR. ORNSTEIN:
Q Will you please state your name? Give your full name for the record.
A.
Harold Wayne Hartman, Jr..
(Whereupon, Exhibit 1201, a letter i
of October 17, 1979, was marked for identification.)
i BY MR. ORNSTEIN:
4 Mr. Hartman, I show you an exhibit that is l
marked Exhibit 1201.
Is that a photocopy of a letter
(!
that was sent by the NRC TMI Special Inquiry Group confirming your deposition here, today, under oath?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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LasecasTan CouMTV Coumf Houst LANCASTER PENNSYLVANIA
A Yes, it is.
Q Have you read this document in full?
(O_)
A Yes, I have.
4 Do you understand that the information set
- c forth in this letter, including the general nature of the NRC TMI Special Inquiry, your right to have an attorney present today here as your representative, an d the fact that the information that you provide here ma y eventually become public?
A Yes.
4 Mr. Hartman, is Counsel representing you personally today?
l
)
j A
Yes.
MR. ORNSTEIN:
I would like to hot e for the record that the Witness is represented by an attorney --
MR. SMITH:
John M.
Smith.
MR. ORNSTEIN:
John M. dmith.
Mr. Hartman, you should be aware I rh
's_)
that the testimony that you give has the same force an d e f fe ct as if you were testifying in a Court of Law.
(,)
My questions and your responses are being taken'down and will be later transcribed.
l l
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LafeCASite COUNTT COUnf MOUSS LANCASTER. PENNSYLVANI A
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You will be given the opportunity to loou at the transcript and make changes that you deem
(]
necessary.
However, to the extent that your subsequent changes are significant, those changes may be viewed as affecting your credibility so please be as complete and accurate as you can in response to my ques tions.
If you at any time during the depo-.
- sition don't understand the question please be free to l
stop and ir.dicate that, and we will make,the clarifica-tion at that time.
Let me warn you of two basic ground rules.
One is that you permit.me to finish my questi.on s l
before you give the response even if you know what the question-is going to be becadse the Reporter cannot tak e
down both of us speaking at once.
i Secondly, please res~ pond audibly.
Motions such as nodding your head will not be taken do'w n a
by the Reporter.
Mr. Hartman, did you bring a copy of
' ~
your resume to the deposition tonig,ht?
(j THE WITNESS:
No, I didn't.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCASTER CouMTT COURT NOUSE LANCASTER. PENNSYLVANI A
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BY MR. ORNSTEIN:
4 Well, maybe since you don't have a copy with 1{}
you, maybe you can briefly give us a run-down of your work and educational experience from the point where you think it might be significant.
A
.Okay, I was trained in the U.S.
Navy Thermo-nuclear Power Program, served about three years aboard Nuclear Submarines.
I was discharged and subsequently employed at Metropolitan Edison, Three Mile Island Nuclear Station, as an auxilliary operato.r, and I remai ned in that capacity. for two and-a-half years and was promo
()
ted to Control Room Operator, Unit 2, in September of i
1976'.
And I was trained and licensed by the NRC on about October 20 o'r last year -- No, of '77; I'm sorry, 1977.
And I held that license until my resignation from Met Ed on April 13, 1979, this year.
Q In your academic experience prior to enterin g
the Navy or between that point and the present, what wa s
.)
the highest level of your education,in High School, College, etc.?
Ct A
I. graduated from High School, and I have a OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER -
w casun coum, count ouse
.ANCASTER, PENNSYt.VANI A
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.(g diploma, some college, and technical training through the Navy.
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Q Okay, was that Bainbridge or --
%s A
Yes, Bainbridge, Maryland was the Nuclear Power School with prototype training as S3G in West Milton, New York.
4 Do you remember giving a statement to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission Office of Inspection and Enforcement on or about May 22 of 1979?
A Yes.
Q Did you receive a copy of the transcript thnt was made from the taping?
I b'
A
'Yes, I received a copy of the transcript, but I didn 't receive the tape.
I had asked for a tape also, which wasn't received.
MR. ORNSTEIN:
Off the record.
(Whereupon, there was a discussior i off the record.)
BY MR. ORNSTEIN:
i (J
Q Back on the record.
Did you provide the Commission with l {J corrections to the transcript from your recollection of what took place during that particular interview?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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LANCAstEn couMTV count Moust LANCASTER. PENNSYLVANI A g
l-A No.
4 Did you read the transcript and find that.it (j
was free of errors, or was it a situation where you-.
looked at it but didn't examine it in any great detail for maj or or minor changes ?
A The only thing that I saw s*wre was name errors from mispronunciation of names, but none of the names that I can recall were important.
The important names were all valid, spelled right and everything.
4 I have here an item that I would like to enter as Exhibit 1202.
I believe this is the transcript of that discussion that was held back in May, 1979.
(Whereupon, Exhibit 1202, a documen t,
was marked for identification and shown to the witness.
)
A Yes, this is a document.
MR. SMITH:
For the record, I haven't seen it.
He has, but I would like to put some-.
thing on the record here.
()
Has this been identified yet?
Firs t of all,-could we identify it by number, or are you not (j'
going'to do that?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LasecastgR cOUNTT COURT MOUSS LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
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MR. ORNSTEIN:
I believe I introdu.-
ced this as document 1202, and it was the INE transcript
(])
of-the meeting that was held between Harold Hartman and several members of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
That meeting was held on May 22, 1979 at the Red Roof Inn at Swatara, Pennsylvania.
MR. SMITH:
All right, what I would like to say, for the record at least, is that this docu-ment, Exhibit 1202, was shown to Mr. Hartman who had an opportunity to at least bri? fly look at it to deter--
4 mine whether it was, in fact, the same document noticing
(])
how various pages and bits and pieces can, of course, at times be misplaced or what have you.
To the extent that he looked at it e
he would agree that it is the same document.
If during this deposition soecific questions are asked, of course, we can verify what it I
is, but to the extent that he did look at it, it would appear to be the same document.
I think we should make that clear.
)
MR. ORNSTEIM:, Understood.
Now, do you recall a statement that O
you provided to two other members of the Nuc1 car l
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LAfeCASTER COUNTT COURf MOUSE LANCASTER. PENNSYLV ANI A
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Regulatory Commission on or about September 12, 1979, Misters Evans and Vandenberg from the NRC Three Mile
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Island Special Inquiry group?
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
BY MR. ORNSTEIN:
4 Do you have a copy of the tape that was made at that particular meeting that you had?
A Yes.
I have half.
I have half a tape.
The other side didn't come out.
I do have a copy of a transcript which was made from the notes and that tape.
7_
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j 4
Was that a transcript that they made or a transcript that you made?
A No, this was a transcript that they provided me.
It wasn't verbatim.
It'was more or less set up in questions and answer type outline.
MR. ORNSTEIN:
I would like to ente r this as Exhibit 1203 and have you identify th'at.
(Whereupon, Exhibit 1203, a documen b, was marked for identification.)
i
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THE WITNESS :
This appears to be th e o
i document.
l OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCASTER COuseTV COURT HOUSE LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
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k BY MR. ORNSTEIN:
i 4
Did you examine a facsimile of this exhibit
' ()
and review it in any depth?
A I reviewed it.
Not to any great depth.
Jutt I wanted to make sure that the general content of my answers and the way an answer could be misconstrued, I wanted to make sure that it wasn't, in fact, misconn strued during the translation, and I didn't find any of that to becur; ~.
4 If I understand correctly the version of these three exhibits, 1202 and 1203 that.you have seen 4
are correct from the standpoint of the statements that were made, and if we refer to them -- Strike that, please.
Now, you ment.4oned the fact that you had spent several years in the Navy program.
What was your particular designation?
A I was an electronics technician and later qualified as a reactor operator.
4 For how long were you an electronics techniolan?
A I was an electronics technician for five g) years and a reactor operator for about two and-a-half.
1 V
Q During that period of time you mentioned that you were assigned on shipboard duty?
A That's correct.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCASTER CouMTY COumf MOUSE LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANIA
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Q And du. ring those two and-a-half years as reactor operator you were on a Nuclear Submarine?
()
A That 's correct.
Q And the work that you had done for the Navy and your training program you had certain formal class -
room training, is that correct?
A That 's correct.
4 Could you reflect back and tell me what you noticed that was outstanding in the Navy training and t he Navy training program relative to that of which you re-.
ceived from Metropolitan Edison in your work with Met I;d as training for Auxiilliary Operator as well as that of a Control: Room Operator?
A There is a lot to put together here. I didn' t realize -- I could have done some preparation, but I didn't.
I know that the Navy Program was.d ma by top-notch people.
I mean the Admiral had to handpick' all of his instructors.
He met each one personally, arid if he didn't -- Like anything he saw about the person, i
he just ousted them.
They couldn't be instructors.
They had a regular systematic
()
approach.
It was more or less programed almost as to OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LAncastam COUNTT COURT HOUSS LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
I your progression through your training.
You never learnedtoo much'too fast,
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and you also understood concepts before another one was introduced,that would later reflect back to that concer t.
So it taught you to think and be analytical to that standpoint.
Met Ed, the Auxilliary Operator training really didn't -- We didn't have what I would call top-notch instructors.
They were knowledgeable, but as far as their ability to put together a program, it is my opinion that they couldn't do as professional g
a j ob as a Navy Program would be put together.
%J So, therefore, it was haphazard, and the learning I don't believe was as thorough.
I don't believe that we got as muct.
out of training as we could have had it been more pro-gramed.
It is also my opinion that I think Met Ed did a fine job of training us with what they l
j had, and people, material-wise, I think they did a fino j ob.
s/
As far as the Control Room Operaton l
training; I had eight weeks of intensive training down
(!I on the Simulator, Babcock and Wilcox.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LA8eCASTER COUNTY COUnf MOUSE LANCASTER PENNSYLVANIA J
That was eight weeks of classroom covering instrumentaiton, controls, various things like
(])-
that, and then actually applying the classroom knowledg e in the Simulator with casualty actions, simulated casus.1'-1 :.
ties.
That to me was invaluable, and I kr ow it was invaluable to a lot of the other fellows that we nt down there with me because a lot of them never stood a watch on a panel like that before.
They were out in tt,e engine room turning valves and things like this where I had some hands-on experience with casualties from a l
panel.
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3 I know it helped them a lot being
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able to recognize and analyze problems real quickly. I thought that that program was well coordinated, and I think everybody came out of there was at that point a competent operator just on that particular -- They developed skills there, however, that they become in?.
stinct arter awhile, so no matter where you go you can use these instincts that you have learned there and apply them to the realm of a control room-the size of
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Unit 2.
After the training that we got down in Lynchburg we had several sections learning about OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LAteCASTER COUNTT COURT MOUS$
LANCASTER. PENNSYLVANI A
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individual components.
Reactor cooling pumps is one I can recall.
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It was just basically review-type, keeping us refreshed on certain ideas and concepts.
We had a two-week cram course so-to-speak right before we had a simulated NRC examina-tion that was given by I can't remember -- General Physics.
They gave the simulated walk-through, and I took that.
I didn't make it but, you know, they all do that.
4 I don't understand.
A Well, I didn't pass that examination.
4 Simulated walk-through?
A I didn't pass the simulated one.
4
'O However, later o'n you did pass an actual walk-th rough ?
A Yes, that 's correct.
4 Was that due to the fact that you trained 4
more, or was it that the NRC walk-through was easier?
A No, ani NRC examination to me is never easy whether you know the answer, whet,her you know what they are going to ask you.
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And everybody has a basic idea what l
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER a LANCASTER COUNTY COUn? Moveg
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they are going to ask you.
They are going to ask you some questions about the reactor.
They are going to
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ask you some questions about the turbine.
They are going to ask you to go out in the plant and find compo ne nt s.
It's a standard thing.
If they don't cover that they haven't really -- The NRC hasn 't done their job, I think.
My basic impression of an NRC walk around, and examination is thorough knowledce, basic knowledge, and also the walk-around part,of it I think should be to test the composure of the examinee.
In other words, how well does the examinee stand up under a stressful ten-hour examinati an with questions from anywhere.
This was my idea of an NRC test so therefore, I conducted myself during the examination with a great deal of calm, thinking the an'wers out before I gave them.
/
Some guys were petrified.
You kno,f, they would just stand there for twn hours, but I wasn'<;
esb like that just because that 's the way I thought an examination should be.
And it's Impossible for anybody that's l-OFFICIAL CC sRT REPORT'..R
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LAfeCAS?tR COU86TT COURT HOUSS WNCASTER. PENNSYLVANI A
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not associated with the plant to ask everything, and everybody can't know everything.
You know.
So --
()
4 You mentioned the fact that you had difficu:.ty with the General Physics Corporation walk-through. I assume that was several weeks prior to the other walk-through for your license?
A I believe it was a month or a month and-a-half before the actual.
4 Do you think it was because you were more up -tight as opposed to not knowing as much, or was it a combination of both?
A Well, at that particular point in time I waa stressed in another way not involving my j ob, and so I think that that probably had a big bearing on it as we L1 as I didn't think the guy that was giving me my walk-around-knew as much as-I did', and his concepts were completely in left-field, and he based my answers an - -
Or the grading of my answers on what he thought it sho'11d be.
4 Did you discuss your observations with anyo:1e, from the training department at Met Ed. subsequent to t'1at particular walk-through?
A Oh, yes, yes, and, you know, they all say h
that this is just general -- Now, I'm not quoting OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
~10-Lasecatrta coumTv count Moves LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
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anybody, but the general concensus of the training department was, yea, they are always. tough.
They want
(])
to -- I don't know if it is to instill a feeling of fear into the examinee or what.
I think it's sort of that type of thing, perhaps to make you feel not quite so ready; a bubble buster so to speak.
And then we did have, I know, two weeks 'more of refresher training after the walk-around,
the mock walk-around before we took the. test.
Classroom, and we brushed up around 1
I the plant and everything like that.
(
y 4
In the interview that you had with the NRC Special Inquiry group people you mentioned the fact that there were some typew-itten copies of some walk-through exams that were held at other facilities as I believe there may have also beel' some at Three Mile Island.
[
I would like to enter this as Exhibit.204 f
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(Whereupon, Exhibit 1204, a docu-i ment containing a number of examin'ations, was marked (I
for identification.)
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCASTER COUNTY COURT MOUSE LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
BY MR. ORNSTEIN :
4 Have you looked at that?
()
A I didn't think I gave you so many.
Yes, these are the documents.
They appear so.
They appear to be all there, 4
Okay, did you use these documents in any way,
shape, or form to assist you in preparing for any of the NRC examinations?
A Knowing my philosophy which I just told you previously, no.
I didn't use them.
I had no need to.
4 Do you recall when you first received those documents?
h
~
A No, there would be a time frame up to a year probably that I could have gotten them.
I know I had them in my locker for quite some time.
l 4
Was that before ybu became a candidate for a Reactor Operator subsequent to your being an Auxilliary f-Operator?
I A
- Yes, b
4 Was it before you passed your Auxilliary l
Operator examination?
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My Control Room Operato,r.
O L
4 I'm sorry, that's correct: Control Room h
L Operator Exam.
o j
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCASTER COUNTT COURT HOUSE LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
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A I can't recall.
4 Do you recall what the source of this set of
()
documents was?
A I wouldn't I know somebody gave them to me, but I can't remember who it was.
You know, if I could kind of visua] -
ize when.I got them I could orobably visualize the face but I don't really know.
4 Were there a large number of peoole like yourself who had this set of documents?
A Y e s '.
4 It was commonplace among the --
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A I would say so, yes, a
4 Was it ever mentioned to you how the documen ts from St. Lucie walk-through examscwound up at different utilities?
A Yes, but I really just assumed that it's lik e, I
you know, nukes are one big family, you know, and one g ets i
a pat on the back from another, and the other wants to e
respond.
It's just that way.
l I mean look at the insurance policy that Met Ed has, five hundred million dollars.
Who pay s l
for it?
All of the other utilities.
- Ci It's just like St. Lucie says send OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
~21-LAfeCASTER COUNTY COURT HOUSE LANCASTER PENNSYLVANIA
copies of this out.
I woulf assume that's how they a n it.
( )~
Q Would you know if this was something dor.
by 4-the training departments or the individual ooeratars on the plant superintendents or --
A I have -- No, I wouldn't have any idea.
I have never seen any of this go on, so how would I know how it's done?
If I wanted to sit down in front o a tape recorder for ten hours and talk about what I talked with my examiner about I could do that, and then they could transcribe to whatever they want, but I Os really don't know how it's done.
4 Do you know if Babcock and Wilcox and the training department were involved in this at all?
A No, I do not.
' I' 4
Do you know if these walk-through exams were j
transcribed from tapes that were held on the candidate s' person as they were actually walking through,the plant 4 2 as opposed to a debriefing subsequent to the exam?
rm A
No, I don't know that either.
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l 4
When you.had your walk through exam for the Three Mile Island Control Room Operator license were y )u Cl
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debriefed after the exam was over?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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LasecASTER couNf? Coumf Moust LANCASTEM. PENNSYLVANI A
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A No, not by anybody other than myself.
I de--
briefed.
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Everybody wanted to know what -- Yc u knnw, just among my peers.
None hi, e r up.
4 Was a transcript or recording made of these observations that you made?
A Not to my knowledge.
Just to put it on the record, I hav e no knowledge that Met Ed ever had anything to do with transcribing walk-throughs, and I can't help but think that you are diving for something here, and all I presented i
you with was a set of documents which I received from
)
training.
I realize you are interested in the se documents but, you know,.I, like I said before, I don't know where they come from.
'I don't know who makes the m.
Met Ed doesn't make them that I know o f s o --
d',
j 4
You said you received them~from training.
Now-does that mean somebody like Marsh Beers, Nelson 17 c.
Brown, or Dick Zechman?,,
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It's possible that they,could.
4 As opposed to someone like Cellenger or someone Cl l' like that?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LA96 CASTER COUNTT COURT HOUSS LANCASTER. Pt.NNSYLVANI A
A No, I don't think it would come from anybody like Cellenger.
It would probably be maybe Unit 1
)
Control Room Operator had had a copy and, you know, he gave it to someone else who was studying for a Unit 2 license and, hey, these are pretty neat.
I might make some copies of these and see if anybody else wants ther And he might go about distributing it that way.
That it happened that way I don't know, but it was just one of the mechanisms that was freq uent ly used for other things.
4 Yes, but I got the impression from what you
]g3 just mentioned a few minutes ago that it was coming from
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training an opposed to operations.
Is that correct?
A I assumed that they came from training.
4 No one actually put a stamp on them saying, here_ for your perusal, or to' help you for next month's exam use this but don't tell anyone where it came fromt A
No.
It wasn't like that.
4 Getting back to comparisons with,the Navy Training and the Met Ed Training, did the Navy teach
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you or have co'urses or lectures on thermodynamics and phase change in the-primary system.as well as chase change in general and the PVT relationships and such?
h A
Yes, they did.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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Q And did the Met Ed Training stay after the aame?
h A
I can vaguely remember a lecture
'n that subject, but I think as I recall it was only taught one time, and that was it.
And it wasn't all in really that much depth.
Q Did --
A I think you might -- Are you referring to the Zirconium Hydriding?
4 No, I was referring to saturation conditiono, two-phase phenomena not necessarily associated with hydriding, generation of steam voiding saturation.
A Yes, they did talk about that.
They talked about heat flux versus water temperature in saturated systems, what happens, nucle' ate boiling, bulk boiling, film boiling.
They talke'd quite a bit about it, especially the steam generators.
Q They being --
q A.
The training department at
)
Q Met Ed and the Naiy?
A Yes, both.
(i 4
Was there any emphasis in your Met Ed train ing OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER.. -..... _, -., -..
LANCASTER. PENNSYLVANI A
on the possibility of boiling in the core?
A Yes, but as long as we didn't exceed a safet y r~~
(_)
limit there should be no boiling.
4 Did the Met Ed Staff instill within you an understanding of the saturation temperature and oressur e relationships which were behind the safety limits, or d id they just say, " Hey, this is the limit, and this is wha t you have to make sure you do or stay within"?
A Well, there were several different curves that we operated by based on how many reactor coolant pumps we had operating, and they were the flux flow in-i balance curves.
l And they always told you that as lc ng as-you stayed within lines.the departure from nucleate boiling ratio was always going to be greater than 1.03 <
4 1.30?
A Yes, 1.30, and that boiling won't occur.
And then also they did dimension DNBR, what it was, how we got it.
How we got the' term things like that.
-rS 4
Did they instruct you about going solid in O
the primary system?
A They said you don't ever want to do that, and that was -- That's my extent.
That's all they said.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER.
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4 Did they ever instruct you about pressur.ize'i' level and the fact that high pressure injection was to
()
be kept on as long as the primary system pressure was below a certain point regardless of what the level was or was it a matter of looking at the level instead of the pressure or both pressure and level?
A Okay, to the best of my recollection we were told that we should follow our indication.and also-knowing it was heresy to let -- You were committing a heretical act to let the plant go solid.
If I saw a pressurized, level goins; up greater than 400 inches, which is top scale, I woultl l
turn the. pumps on myself.
I would do that probably aft;er I checked all the other three -- Or all the other two channels, the other two redundant channels I would check to make sure that those other two are responding the same way.
4 Did the Navy Training dif fer?
A This is taking me back here.
i (Whereupon, a technical discussion followed, off the record.)
BY MR. ORNSTEIN:
(f 4
Can we go back on the record.
Was there anything in the Met Ed OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LaseCASYta COUNTY COURT MOUSS LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
4
(
Training that hinted or indicated that one should throttle back the high pressure injection on certain
]
transients in order to prevent a SCRAM and allow a ICS runback?
A I don't think I understood there.
I don't think it's possible what you just said.
Q Well, the high pressure injection can be initiated automatically.
However, the operator has the capability of throttling back the number of gallons per minute that the system is delivering, and the ques'; ion I had is do you recall anywhere in your training the suggestion that you throttle back the high pressure O
injection at any point in order to prevent SCRAM?
A I never been told that by Met Ed.
Can I say that if high pressure injection.has occurred, auto"matically the reactor should already be tripped.
4 Well, on a turbine trip you don't necessari ly trip the reactor.
A No, but if you do get high pressure injecti on you will have a turbine trip automatically at low pressure or variable pressure temperature.
4 But you will not necessarily have a SCRAM.
O A
Same thing.
All the rods deenergize and OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 4g LasecastaR COUNTY COURT NOUS $
LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANl A
f~
k go in the holes.
4 Well, the idea of the ICS needs to allow the (h
(_)
plant to remain at some hotel load or house load while you try to fix the problem with your turbine or 'the initiating event and not actually SCRAM per se.
Let's proceed on to other points.
When you were with Met Ed you mentioned the fact that you were initially an Auxilliary Ope rator.
I assume yo u came in on the Aux 1111ary Operator A-level?
A That's correct.
4 4
That was because you had additional training
)
compared to one who would be coming in at the Auxilliar y Operator C-level?
A That's correct.
4 And as time went on you applied for the position of Control Room Operator, is that correct?
A Th'2t 's correct.
4 What was the incentive available to people like yourself to become a Reactor Operator an opposed to an Auxilliary Operator?
{')
A Well, for one thing it was over a dollar an hour raise just to start, and then; of course, after you progressed through the training period it got progressively more until you got full rate for CRO.
I OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER Lancastem COUNTT Count te3ust LAf 4 CASTER, PENNSYLN AN6 A
e
- s...
When you obtained your NRC license you got at the time it was $21.00 a week
()
extra license bonus, and for my own personal reasons for taking control room ooerator, I wouldn't go any further if you don't take what's ahead of you.
I didn't want to be an aux 1111ary operator the rest of my life.
Q Did you find that there were any drawbacks associated with being a control room operator?
A Any --
4 Drawbacks?
A Oh, drawbacks.
I Juess the real drawback
()
that I could see was being in.close contact with so many people at one time, especially during the hot functional testing and the start-up testing program.
There wdre engineers and neople just congregated in the control rooms looking for information, trying to run tests, and, of course, any tests that are going on in the plant have to go a
through the control room operator or through the shift foreman via the control room operator, b
Of course, he has to' keep all these things in his mind somehow and keep them with h
a' fair degree of arrangement.
Tha',
plus all the l
OFFICIAL COURT. REPORTER LANCAsf tn COUMf T COUM7 MOUSS LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
I constant hounding by people other than the people run-t ning the testa like can I get this valve closed and
()
opened, it was just a constant harassment for eight hours.
Q Was the Auxilliary Operator free of this kind of harassment?
A Yes.
Basically the only harassment he got was from us, the Control Room Operators.
4 Now, did you find a requalification program to be a burden on you as opposed to having staved an Auxilliary Operator?
A No, I don't think so.
This is my own per-sonal.--
4 Well, when you studied for your requalifica-.:.
tion did.you study on your own time or was it exclusively on company time?
A Well, as I recall we had three operators, three Control Room Operators at the time.
One guy was designated as survella lance coordinator, and that job normally took maybe an hour.into the day until you could get all the papers shuffled out to the appropriate people, and then if l
there was any for the guy to do, then he would do it.
Ci It wouldn't take too long, and I l
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCAsf an COUNTT COUNT MOutt LANCASTE R. PENNSY LVANI A
=
i' u(
would use that day to go in the back where it was a little quiet and review my notes and things like that.
(~'T I got to see my wife little enough L) yet alone taking home a pile of books to study till '
generally studied on company time.
4 Was that the norm?
Did most operators do it that way?
A I really don't know.
I don't know -- Some guys took them home.
Other guys didn't.
4 Did Met Ed give you specific homework assigr ments when you were in the training program for your j()
initial Reactor Operator license?
That is would you gc I
over material in class and then be expected to produce 4
k
~
~
certain problems or feedback certain information the next day, or was it something that they did not expect you to do anything at home and it was mainly while you were on'whatever cite or classroom?
A Okay, I think I'm picking up what program you're talking about, and it's the one that's conducted i
by Met Ed's training through the licensing year.
In other words we have -- We had (D
\\>
various stays of training.
We would go down to the
~
training building and sit, and we would study say five Ci' emergency procedures, and they would give us two hours, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCASTER COuMTV COUNT HOUSE LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANIA
'I three hours to study them.
They would have an instructor to go O
over ene=
ita ue, aaa et the eaa or that ee 1oa e
would have an examination, and they would be graded.
If we got less than an 80 on it they would send it up to us in an envelope, and we woul d have to complete it by such and such a date to get credit for it.
But none of that generally had to be taken home.
I don't think anybody ever took any of that home.
I l
Q Now, did it work the same way in your initial
.s l
j li c t.. se studying or preparation?
That is not the requ'alification program, but the cold training as you had or the hot training as it may have been?
A.
Yes, we had basic &lly it was what we call th e OJT book, and it was -- They had all the systems listed and a general study guide for each system.
t And we had to study the study guide for the system, and then we could go to a shift foreman or a shift supervisor, and he would give us a checkout s
on it.
I might say at this point I was a l h part of the first group of operators to be licensed at OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCAsian COUNTY COURT HOUSE LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
rk the initial -- The initial batch.
The people that were licensed afte r
()
the initial group of October 20, '77 they started in on the company program which was another program thing.
You know, they asked them a lot of questions about the feed pumps, and then they would have a test, things like that.
4 But it was mostly studying while on the OJT program or something which did not really involve a lot of outside study where you weren't really expected to take all the stuff home with you and spend hours on end ?
t A
If you had to do that to get the license O
they expected you to take things home.
i 4
Now, did the Navy operate the same way?
A I guess in a basic sort of way.-
They wont let you go home.
If we needed an extra two hours of training at night because we didn't do so hot during the day they said, "You just 10 o ' c 1'o ck. "
can't go home until 6 : 0 That's just a little push, but that 's l
what they do.
4 Now, I have been made aware of some nuclear plants in which I'm not sure if it's AO's or CRO's havo k.I been stopped at the gates by union stewards and told to OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCasign COUNTY COURT MOutt LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
e k
leave their books at the plant, that they couldn't take the work home with them, that it was something to be done at the plant on utility time as opposed to their own time.
Do you recall seeing any such thing; occur at Three Mile Island?
A Not to my recollection.
Q Was there very heavy union involvement in the conduct of business for the Auxilliary Operators and Control Room Operators?
MR. SMITH:
Off the record for a minute.
(Whereupon, there was a discussion 1
off the record.)
4 i
- BY MR. ORNSTEIN:
4 Back on the record.
When a person like yourself got a new position, take for example the CRO position, what was the basis upon which you might have been rated and
()
salaried, changed upwards or downwards?
A It was seniority.
Company seniority deter-mined if I got the j ob.
C:i l
If there was 13 openings, and I wa s OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCASTER COUNTY COURT HOU$E LANCASTER. PENNSYLVANIA
the 14th in seniority I wouldn't get the job.
The other 13 would.
(f 4
Okay, once you got the job what about incre- -
ments in your salary and reviews or annual reviews?
What kind of measure was there in determining your performance and your eligibility for raises?
A Okay, we had periodic reports.
I can't recall if they were monthly or every six months.
I believe they were monthly or 90 days'.
Every 30 days we would get a repor b, and it was a standard Met Ed form that his attitude, g-his work attitude, is he picking up the concepts of
( )3
~
the new j ob ; you know, questions like this, performanc e, and then they would be rated by the supervisor.
Q Were there any specific things listed?
For example turned vavles so mahy times, did so many things to cause so many reactivity changes, pushed the wrong buttons so many times?
Was there any such assessment t
made of the operators?
A No.
Basically what we do there was if we r-had a person that was in training for a license and he needed to do fiv.e reactivity manipulations we would l
_actually _-- He would stand by a licensed operator and l (3 go through everything before he actually did it, and l
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCAstan CoWNTY COURT HOUSE LANCASTER. PENNSYLVANI A
e(,
he would make the reactivity manipulations, and then we would log it into the main OR log as so and so
()
performed reactor. start-up under direction of licensed operator Hal Hartman.
Q This would be primarily for satisfying some NRC requirements for the license, but it was not some-thing for a Met Ed assessment having anything to do wii;h the employee.'s salary?
k No.
4 Now, getting back to --
A Okay, the former question, I think I under-stand that.
.()
4 Yes, that 's what I was going to get back to a
I think what I am trying to get at was if there is any real record made of having a man stand back 'and say, "Okay, h'e pushed the wrong button i
that time.
Mark it down."
Things like that, there was nothing like that?
The performance of an operator was a
based on bla'k?
You fill in the blank.
n A
That's a tough question.
I really don't
,g J
know what they base it on.
I don,'t really.
Maybe the shift supervisor likes b
this guy.
You know.
Maybe he really is good.
He OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCASTER COUNTV COumf MOUSS LANCASTER. PENN5YLVANI A
just beams out all over as being good, and they know it 4
I get the impression that you are saying it
()
is sort of a subjective-type thing by the supervisor as opposed to a quantifiable thing?
A Well, first let me say that during our train-ing -- Now, you can talk two different groups.
4 Okay, training and operating.
-A:
- Training and operating.
Well, during the training period precriticality.
Okay, we had. cold license.
Our training. differed after we went critical.
Then there was a separate.
They do walk-arounds that they took overy so often.
The candidates had walk-arounds that they would take, I don 't know, every couple of weeks or every couple of segments'.
The'y would have a walk-around with one, a member of' the training department,
would come up and walk around the control room with him, and they would go over those systems.
Okay?
And then he would make an evaluation a
based on that walk-around, and they would do basically what an'NRC examiner would do, start this pump and thert Os you were supposed to get the proce, dure and line-up the correct valves and so on.
You know.
l-This was a following for I thought OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCASTER COUNTT COURT MOUSE LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
i I
r(
it was an extensive set of questions that were given to you on specific systems that you had to answer
()
subjectively.
They were graded and returned to the candidate before his walk-around, and this was
- progrens, and generally it took a candidate nine months, and they would give him a mock NRC test of their own, a written or oral.
And from their day would determine whether they would send him up.
Q Okay, that was one where the Met Ed require ments was you had to pass a certain exam within a certain period of time or you went back to where you were be fore, I believe?
A Right.
Q Okay, but let's t'ake the case, the other case. That is you now have the license.
A Yes.
Q The question was one of are there any quantifiable things upon which the advancement of the e
individual as far as pay step and such go or is this merely a matter of seniority and n,ot making any waves?
A.
Once you got to be control Room Operator with a license your pay went no higher, and you were OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCASTER COUNTT COURT MOutt LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
r'(
just stuck unless you got promoted to shift foreman, and that was the discretion of generally the shift
(])
supervisor and the plant superintendent.
4 Did you not need a senior operator's licens e for that?
A That's correct.
Well, they would promote you, and then they would put you on a senior operator training program, but you wouldn't fulfill that capacity until you had a SRO license.
The other thing that we had just t o I
maintain the proficiency was once a year we had to do O
certain things, operate the plant and any maj or evolu-tions which we performed were documented under I forget the column, but this was just general things that we did.
Then we had reactivity manipulations, and we
'ad to do five of those with greater than one percent change or something.
I can't even remember a
that exactly.
4 This is basically the NRC operator licen-O sing requirements for requalifying, I guess, that dete r-mined this kind of thing?
A Yes, and that was really all we had.
OFFICIAL CO'IRT REPORTER 11 0 -
LANCASTER COUNTT COURT MOUSE LANCASTER. PENNSYLV ANI A
,..(
4 You mentioned the fact that you did have simulated training at Lynchburg.
I believe you said it-()
was an eight-week program in obtaining your Reactor Operator license.
A That's correct.
4 Now, had you had subsequent simulated training after October '77 now at Lynchburg?
A Yes.
I had one week at approximately the last week in June of '78, and another week approximately the week of the 28th, March 28, 1979.
Q-Okay, and that was a predetermined program that Met Ed had many operators going down in order to stay current and be in fulfillment of the manipulationr requirements for license renewal?
A I'm not sure I know what you mean.
Q This training that you had at B&W ontheir facility, the simulator, that involved manipulations of the sinulator controls?
A (Indicates yes.)
4 And I assume in your case you must have beert involved with numerous manipulations so that you did without that simulated training actually meet the NRC l
requirements for renewing your license in 19797 A
That's correct, at the plant.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCASTEN COUNTY COumt MOUSE a
LANCASTER. PENNSYLVANIA
r(,
4 Right.
A (Indicates yes.)
()
Q And the thing that it must have done was to assist you in understanding certain transients which you did not actually experience during the year?
A That's correct.
4 And I assume that also it was geared so tha1 ;
people who were not at the controls per se like a senior operator would have an opportunity to actually manipulate the controls, is that correct?
A That 's correct.
i 4
How, again I'll ask you to try and go back l ()
a bit in time.
I assume that in your Navy program you used or had been exposed to the simulator that the Navy may have had in your tr'aining?
A We didn't have simulators in the Navy.
4 You did not have any Navy simulators at all ?
A We had prototype training centers which wera s
actual reactors.
They were operating.
Q On those Navy prototypes did you undergo similar casualty. events such as yo,u had at Lynchburg, or were they more complex?
k_ !
A It's really difficult to answer the questio t OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LASGCASTER COUNTT COUNT MOUSS U
LANCASTEft. PENNSYLVANI A
?(
because of the nature of the two plants. One is a very simple plant.
It is so stable it's ridiculous, and all
()
you do is pull rods, and that's it.
Everything else is so self-regulating that it takes care of itself basica] ly.
The Babcock and Wilcox is quite a bit more complicated to operate.
By failing a TH ins-trument high on one plant it would do a multitude of things where it had an automatic control system that looked at that parameter.
If you f ailed TH high in the flavy plant you would look up and say, "It's high.
What's the other one read?"
Which was right below it, and it I()
l roads okay.
~
"Oh, I must have had an instrument problem back there,"'and you know that -- To kind of say the casualties were as c'omplex, I don't know.
I have a hard time answering that.
4 Okay, the simulator in Lynchburg, was that of a reactor, another facility?
That's the SMUD branc i
4 4
e i
of SECO simulator?
4 A
That 's correct.
1
-)
~J 4
Did you find that this, detracted somewhat from the training-with regard to Three Mile Island,
('. !
or was it something that you got used to fairly quickly?
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
_4 i
LANCASTER CoWNTT COURT HOUSE LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
r(.
A Yes, I got used to it fairly quickly so it didn't -- It didn't really -- I'm very easy to reorient
()
like that though, and I adapted down there within houra.
And some guys I guess it still bothered.
I don't know.
But myself, I didn't find it annoy- -
ing or anything like that.
It didn't deter from my training.
4 I'd like to go back to a statement that you said which was rather interesting, and that is I got the impression that in the Navy plants it was fairly
}
easy to detect an instrument that wasn't working right ?
s A
That is correct.
4 And I gather that it is not quite the same i
at Three Mile?
A It's a nightmare.'
You know.
j I had mentioned before in'some of these things that certain operators should develop a sense of, you know, when they sectionalize a panel regardl.2ss of what kind of indication it is. style-wise
[
p.,
an operator should be able to look at a section of the d
panel and just scan it for a secon,d and realize if l'
something is not really kosher, and then, you know, I
scan another.section, do the same thing.
'l OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
-NN-LANcasian CouMTV Count House LANCASTER. PENNSYLVANI A
r
- Now, a lot of guys wouldn't do
(.
- that, and.they would become locked in on just certain
- rm
- gauges, you know, and that's really a bad cart.
t) 4 The gauges, themselves, were hard to read because they were vertical.
They were only about an inch wide by I'd say ten inches high.
The needle was very small, and these were the ones on the main console and in back; for instance, extraction, steam oressures, and temperatures were gauged on a meter with a face an inch wide by say three inches tall.
And to view those gauges you could
()
N-probably get as close as twelve feet to them, which
~~
requires fairly good eyesight to be able to read the exact values.
But you.could scan it, and you can see l'f your parameters are about where you think they should be.
l Q
Did you ever have an opportunity or confrontation with anyone at the plant wher'e you l
expressed your observations on sytm of this equipment o A
Oh, yes, but I r?.usly don't know who I l
l would have said it to.
(.I If I said it to anybody it would
~.V OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCastta COUNTY COURT MOWSE LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
have been somebody that I'was working with at the f
s, time.
You know, probably a shift foreman or a shift supervisor.
,Co) '
As far as names, I don't really know, but I did mention the fact that I think there is too much,.I think there:is a lot of extraneous garbage in that control room that could be taken out and compressed into a workable size where one man could scan the panel and know exactly what'c going on, make it easier to read, sectionalize it a little bit better.
They have things all over the LO 91 ace.
Y 4
Do you ever actually say to someone: Hey, this is like this, and it really ought to be like that; or is it just a matter of simole discussion wit hou.t any change ever being expected to take place?
Well, let me back off and ask you in a slightly different way.
Was there anything in your manual of procedures of being an. operator which would allow you to raise to management what
()
appeared to you as a significant or even possibly a safety concern for a plant and its method of operatir s
- (!-
or information that was available to you as an operat' ort OFFICIAL. COURT REPORTER y,,
LAMCA$TER C3UNTY COURT HOUSC LANCASTER PENNSYLVANI A l
t
.j{
A Well, generally if we ~just had a simple problem like a meter was incorrect we would go to e the shift foreman and say, "This thing isn't operatinr properly. Shall we turn in a work requesL7" And he would say yes or know, and the course would proceed from there. And either the instrument man : fixed it or the work request was disapproved along the line or something. I think if I was operating the plant and I saw something that was really serious I'd mention it to the shift supervisor. O. You know, maybe we have a better 'J way of doing this. Maybe we should take a look'at ~' that. 4 Did such a situation ever occur? A-
- Yes, I mentioned to him about the polisher system,.which was terrible.
You know, the situation i l wa. Just terrible. They didn't have any automatic l ^ bypass around the vessel so that in case a vessel a would go on a high differential pressure, that is we cut flow off to the booster pumps and subsequently the feed pumps. And if they had an automatic valve ("l in there-that was air operated that would send the OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER - LancastEm Couseff court HOUSE LAi! CASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
f{h high DP-in'the. system that couldop open just right away and keep this and condensate booster pumps with () some water; everything'would have been all right. It was at least six 'nonths before the .acident if not longer that this question had beert raised by other members of the control room staf f to - their shift supervisors, and I know I and the other operator that I worked with, I know he had mentioned too, that an automatic valve there, it would be ideal because we had experienced these problems with the polishers before. 4 This was all oral requests or suggestions? () Was there anything in writing that was put down on that? A No, n ot th at -I c an re c all. 4 Were you, as a reactor operator, familiar with the specs for the plant? A I was familiar with them, yes. I could generally tell you if there was a tech spec on a a certain item. I couldn 't recite it word for O ~
- word, but I know where I could go to find that information.
Q' Wero you familiar with the tech spec or ^ OFFICIAL' COURT REPORTER f4 8. Lancastan county count nouss LANC ASTER. PENNSY LVANI A I
~ operating procedure - associated with the tail pipe
- f. -
- i. -
from the PORV and safety valves? A
- Yes, e
Nm] Q If you knew that a situation existed where the plant in that area was not within the tech specs or operatin~g procedures, how would you go about apprising management of this or what would you do to get it corrected? A
- Well, what I would do is just I would talk to my shift foreman, and if I didn't really get any satisfaction out of him I would go to the shift supervisor and tell him, you know, I.think we've
() got a problem. 4 Did you ever do that with regard to that particular temperature? A That particular problem I.was -- I never + wrote anything down except I -- volumes.of water that had to be exchanged, I thought that was testi-mony enough that we did have a problem. 4 Well, were you -- A But () 4 Go ahead. l l A But I did talk to Bernie Smith and Dick I ([l Hoyt about this problem, about the leakage out of the l valves, and they j ust said, "Get a good leak rate." ~ ~ OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCASTER COUNTY COURT HOUSE LANCASTER PENNSYLVANIA
And whenever I did it I cassed it off as often as I could. I would just say, "I couldn't get a good one all night," and keep doing it that way. They had three days to get a good j one, and sometime during the day or during the night a good one would come up, and then it would have to go for three more days until they would get a good i one. Q Was there anyone else you could have gone to with this concern? A I probably didn't go to anybody because j () I thought that this was such an obvious problem that i the people that I could have gone to were already notified. I think you're getting at that -I could have gone to the NRC. Q Well, I'm not getting to that.
- However, that is an ultimate avenue that one could take, but l
I was concerned with finding out what specific guide-lines there are within the Met Ed Organization that [) would allow an individual like yourself to notice that you were being stifled by th'e next layer of .( l man ag'ement and try to raise-to the surface a concern without rocking the entire boat like what you just OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER ~ Lancastan Counff COUnf HOUSE LANCASTER. PENN SYt.V ANI A
r 1;. A Yes, I really don't think -- I was kind' of afraid of rocking the-big boat up there. O t eee ea to me 11xe ener were totally unpredictable. I knew they were aware-or'the problem,-and their minds are greater than mine. They could do things with their heads that I could never imagine. 4 Was there some quality assurance function o r some quality assurance group that was depended upon s by Met Ed to make sure that this kind of thing would be resolved? A Well, as far as I know they had -- We had surveillance procedure forms, and the surveillance group would send any sheets that come back completed, they would go to ISI, In Service Inspection,.and an t engineer would look at the data and evaluate it. l l= What he gets is just the minimum v [ information, you know. And -- That's all. As far as l the QA is concerned, that's all I know about. I o 4 Was there an area that was le f t out from (.( your training in the Met Ed program on Auxilliary l Operator and Control Room-Operator or was there' some-i thing discussed along these lines of reporting or fixing'up things which appeared to be incorrect? i OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LaMcastes county count' Moues LANCASTER. PENNSYLVANIA
U fr T,,, A; No, I never -- We never were told to fix anything up, but they told us to get one anyway you cart. - ( )( 4 You get one meaning what? A Meaning a leak rate. 4 Okay. Are you aware of the recent I think it was Friday Press Conference that the Director of the Division of Inspection Enforcement held Friday in which 155 thousand dollars in fines were levied against Metropolitan Edison?' A Uh-huh. 4 Were you aware of the fine that the NRC would have levied on Met Ed with regard to that parti-cular tailpipe? e I would like to introduce as Exhibit 1205 a letter written by Victor Stello to Bob Arnold, Metropolitan Edison," on their findings, and I l would like to draw your attention to the item of leakage i from the safety valves and the. tailpipe temperature. The cumulative civil. penalty for that one item alone would have been 630 thousand dolla rs, which amounted to a penalty of five thousand dollars s '~ a day for every day.that they were not in compliance l - I on that. item. l i This is the letter, and,this is th e l OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCA$tte COUNTT COURT HOUS$ LANCASTER. PENNSYLVANI A ,-n
s f (.; item over here. (Whereupon, Exhibit 1205, a letter, () was marked for identification.) A This is quite stunning. l Q I don't know if there is more'that can be said, but apparently the NRC has expressed their thoughts about this particular incident, and we - feel it t o be art l extremely serious event, but I think you have sort of expla. mad the way in which many people at Met Ed might. l have viewed this tech spec violation, or is it an operating procedure violation as opposed to a tech speo violation? A It is an operating procedure violation, I think, rather than a tech spec violation. I MR. ORNSTEIN: May we take a break for a few minutes? l (Whereupon, there was a brief re.ce ss l in the proceedings.) l i (Whereupon, the proceedings contin aed .,m (_) as follows :) BY MR. ORNSTEIN: ! b L Q Back on the record again. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCASTER COUNTY COURT Moung LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANI A
You had mentioned the fact that yott 4 were at the Lynchburg simulator at the time of the
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Three Mile Island accident on March 28, and I gather that was part or four requalification training. Now, were you slated to have your license reviewed fairly shortly? A Yes. 4 Was there a particular submittal date that comes to mind? A No, that's usually handled by the training department as far as the submittal date. I know that t i 7-ny-license would have expired the 19th of February or \\~/ the 19th of October of this year. 4 Q Were you doing satisfactorily well in the requalification training, or were you having problems with it which might have imp" aired your receiving the renewal? MR. SMITH:- I have. a little trouble with that. Off the record. q (Whereupon, there was a discussion %J off the record.) j l BY MR. ORNSTEIN: OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER tancastan county count ' ousa w LANC ASTER. PENN SYLV ANI A
.(f 4 Can you. repeat the last question, please? (Whereupon, the Court Reporter rea l back as follows : "Were you doing satisfactorily well in the requalification training, or were you having -problems with it which might have impaired your receiv Lng the renewal?") BY MR. ORNSTEIN: 4 Let me qualify that. Prior to March 28, 1979. A No. I thought I was progressing satisfactor'Lly. 4 You were not in a category, in a training program where you were deficient in areas and had to a make up certain lectures? A Not that I know of. MR. ORNSTEIN: Off the record. .(. hereupon, there was a discussion W off the record.) MR '. ORNSTEIN: Let's go back on the h (\\-) record.. I have no further questions at the present time. Does your attorney, Mr. Smith, hav n (! any questions? OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCAS?te COUNfT COURT HOH98 LANCASTEft, PENNSYLVANIA
f ft:. ( MR. SMITH: No, I don't think so. MR. ORNSTEIN: In conclusion I woul d 7 ~ 'u) like to say that this is an on-going investigation, and although I~have completed the questions that I have for today we.may nded to bring you back for further depositions. We will, however, make every effort to avoid having to do so, so I will now recess this deposition rather than terminate it and just went to thank you for your time that you spent with us today. (Whereupon, at or.about 8:53 o'cloc k ' O p.m., the deposition was concluded.) ,u a e f O l l. OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER - LANCASTER COJNTY COURT MOUSS LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANIA
C COURT REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE ~./ I HEREBY CERTIFY that I was present upon the hearing of the above-entitled matter and there reported stenographically the proceedings had and the testimony produced; and I further certify that the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of my said stenographic notes. 0]t. {N-N-sY Alfred W. Kershaw, CSR, RPR Official Court Reporter i. O e i OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER LANCASTER COUNTV COURT MOUSE LANCASTER. PENNSYLVANI A .}}