ML19242B980

Transcript of 790716 Meeting in Washington,Dc Re Authorization Bill Amends.Pp 1-75

ML19242B980
Person / Time
Issue date:	07/16/1979
From:	Gilinsky V, Hendrie J, Kennedy R NRC COMMISSION (OCM)
To:
Shared Package
ML19242B981	List: ML19242B980 ML19242B983
References
REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 7908090614
Download: ML19242B980 (77)

Text

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/ih ^i Transcript of Proceedings 2 A"'

! NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

'e re

/

% V

• ...a DISCUSSICN OF AUTHCRIZATION SILL AENDENTS (Cpen to Public Attendance)

July 16, 1979 Pages 1 - 75 Preparec bv:

C. H. Brown Office of :PeSecretary l

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7908090.'

7, 0

_D_I :t ' A 7..' '. r. o.

u This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of the Uni ted States fluclear Regulatory Commission held on July 16, 1979 in the Commission's effices at 1717 H Street, M. W., Wasning;ca, D.

C.

The meeting was open to public atti-dance and cbservation.

This transcript has not been reviewed, correcteu, or edi ted, and i t may contain inaccuracies.

The transcript is intended solely for general informational purposes.

As provided by 10 C. R 9.103, it is not part of the formal or informal re:ord of decisica of the matters discussed.

Expressions of opinica in this transcript do not necessarily refler: final determinaticns or er b'eliefs.' l:0 pleading or other pacer may ce filed with the Ccmmission in any proceeding as the result of or addres sed to any statement or argument contained herein, except as the Ccmmissi0: may authorize.

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1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY CCMMISSION 6

e 3

I Discussion of Authorization Bill Amendments n

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(Cpen tc Public Attendance)

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6 Commissioners' Conference ?cem i'

1717 3 3tISStr N W-7 Washington, D.

C.

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ij Mcnday, July 16, 1979

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jI The Ccamission met, cursuant to notice at 9:05 a.m.,

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i Josech Hendrie, Chairman of the Commission, presiding.

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9 Commissioner Kennedy L

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Cc=missioner Bradford l

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Commissioner Ahearne

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.t one week's notice, to discuss amendments to the NRC Authori::ation 5

Bill, an ocen meetinc..

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ll CCMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Ave.

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CHAIMtAN HENDRIE i Aye.

So ordered.

9 CCMMISSICNER KENNEOY:

Is our Congressional 10 l

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t i l Relations office with us or not?

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MR. SHAPAR:

I saw him just a minute ago.

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o' clock, it's 9:06 -- Commissioners ---

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1. 4 CCMMISSIGNER AHEARNE:

Well, they came at 9:00.

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Ch, thev did ccme a 9:00 and i

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What dces it mean when it says, egis la tive day,

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1 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Yes, what is the distinction

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, between the lacislative and the actual date?

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t MR. KAMMERER:

Thev '<eep a lecislative calendar which.

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i doesn' t necessarily fellow the actual calendar day.

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5 CCMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

Or which, for our curc.oses, 6

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9 CHAIF.v.AN HENDRIE : Well, May 15, June 13, here's one i

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that doesn't seem to be printed yet, June 19th.

Scma of these I

11 have been around a while and some haven't.

I expect there 12 are a dozen cdd possible amendments that me; arise.

i 13 COMMISSICNER AHEARNE:

I think we, at least, have a 14 l

description of some of the others, don't we?

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people would have to at-least sav what our ceinion i

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] was, or if they didn't, they would know what our opinion was.

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'" hey couldn' t sai "Well, the NRC just apparently didn't ca;2 1

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CHAIRMAN HINDRII:

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'I have act been asked to ccmment.

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a principal staff Over the weekend and we have scrething of a

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4 MR. BICKWIT:

The one area of amendment is the 5

Emergency Plan cuestion on whecher licensing should be 6

conditioned on concurred-in state plans.

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You have received copies of the Bill, and there a

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d CHAIrotAN HE'iDRII:

Oh, yes, the Ear: Amendment.

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MR. BICIWIT:

The relevant. section is Section 202.

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Most of the s:ates, I guess in the

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d everyone else Pas concurred in it.

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MR. SICKWIT:

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t 11 CCMMISSICNER AHEARNE:

Would v.ou mind explaining 12 that to me.

What is a mandamus provision?

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13 MR. BICKW T:

A mandamus provision allcws a person j

l 14 to sue to compell an agency to perform a function which it is i

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15 required to perform under the law.

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4 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Oces that ean it is effective, l

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Yes, I think that's right, Mr. Chairman.

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a, contame. lated to a track system, one that v.ou would co on the

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basis of a concurrence as we new understand it, using the 5~

standarf that we new emclov. and sir.ultaneousiv. develoc a I

regulation and put it into place and then a new track wou'.d be 6

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8 the nuclear standards contained in the regulation and there I

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would be a time certain by which

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MR. BICKWIT:

Then, another change is that FEMA would i

12 have a consulting role in both the setting of the criteria 13 l and i. the concurrence in the plan.

CCMMISSICER A32AR'IE:

A consultinc. or a concurrence 14

.i 15 role?

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o ycu have anything on

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2 MR. BIC'G T :

Yes, I have the concepts.

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'l The central difference between the Johnsten i

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5 in a plan would not be a condition to new licensin~. and a l

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continued licensing.

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e 10 plan would be enforced, I'm not clear.

I put tha question to i

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3 12 by federal mandates to the state to enforce -he federal plan, i

13 and use of our authority under Section 232 of he Atomic

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1 plants which is a desirable end, but it seems to me that if 2

this additional three.cnths were provided that concurred-in 1

3 > l, clans c.rebably cce's be ac.5 iaved within 9 months from I

4 enactment of a section and the problem of closure would be 5

= coted.

5 MR. SHAPAR: If a state submitted a plan.

MR. RYA'I :

If a state submitted a plan, and the J

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indication that we have had so far is in states where there g

1 9

. are operatinc. reacters and there sre like'.v. to be operat'.ng i

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1 revise and then propose an emergency clan for a state.

I think 12 we ouv.nt to sta away : rom t.s.a t ':_ poss:

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33 COMMISSICNER KZNNEDY: Are ycu suggesting that unless 34 we had a -- are also empcwered by the proposed statute to la-e s.' ~ ' ' 2..

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9 11 have by way of detail en this.

2 Scme sor of regulatiens would be required and would 3

8 3

be promulgated by the NRC within four =cnths. I assume that t

4 means criteria for plans.

i CHAIPP.1-01 HE:iDRIE : '4hr :

s this, new you are talking l'

I 6

l about?

i MR. SICh"dIT :

I'm talking about the Johnston amendmentf 8

Six =cnths after that the state would have to submit 9

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4 12 establish an interim plan within three =cnths.

And that plan 13 would go into effect unless the state corrected the deficiences found in the state plan before then.

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With respect to new licenses, they uculd 7

i be treated virtuall"1 the same way as existing licenses.

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i 10 Senator Jchnston would offer Senator Glenn's -- the amendment r.

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that has been dcccribed as Senator Glenn's amendment.

We are i

12 unclear exactly on who is going to offer what and as a s " s '..'. _- a *, w.".a

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likelv to be -- to centinue to be a problem, but we have had

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i The State Legislature has passed a bill, and the 4

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would assess the utilities -- the franchise utilities 6

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planning within the S tate of Illinois and put them on a. ore --

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H a quicker timetable.

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I think, that if this bill is enacted and if the 10 (l state agencies get their act together, we can icek for 11 a

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13 meet any nine-month deadline, nine =cnths from the date of 1

i 14 enactment in the Hart bill.

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submitted, and we expect to have that plan within the next

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9 couc.le of dav.s.

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I stand bv., Mr. Che.irman, what I told you about a 3

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think we can achieve the concurrence in all of the statesl 5 '

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You will recall thac the conditions, I said were:

9 cne, that we had the cocc.eration of the states and I

10 the other federal agencies, and I think we :. ave that.

I'm going !,

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to send some letters forward this week, bv the wav, which would l 11 i

lt 12 I hope go cut ever your signature, which would reinforce the 13 l

other federal agencies in this transaction.

I

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"'he need f or sc=e urgency and cor mit.ent of sc=e t

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3.3 CCMM SSIONER AHEA? lie : So you don't really see any croblem -- lar~e problem wid the Simpson/ Hart m

3 i MR. RYAN:

I see problems, but I don't think they are a

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But I do think the idea of scte sanction cut there 1

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9 h between the Simpson/ Hart and Glenn other than 12 =cnths?

i i

i 10 MR. BICKWIT:

Well, there is a very big difference

,l with respect to new plants.

If you were to include that in j,

11 I

your 12 =cnths, then there isn't any.

12 I

13 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:

Simrscn/Hr. treats new c.lants.

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,3 COMMISSIONER AHEAP2iE : Anyhcdy kncw what partic.lar 19 4

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3 9

COMMISS IONER GI',INSKY :

Lee's see, ycu are saying t

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I MR. RYAN:

It c.robably would not c. e : c a u ~v h t, because e

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have to o is test it.

d 5'

New Jersey where we have a concurred-in plan, 6

California where we have a concurred-in plan and "'ennessee is 7

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I don' t know that we are coinc to get decisions.

We might I

I 9

h get ja==ed up on that even if the Simpsen/ Hart amendment were 10 4.,. a c. e -.

a 11 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

Cn submission to first response!

12 to the states by NRC, hcw lon~v has the time elapsed?

i MR. R'?AN :

It depends.

You know, you can't make 13 14 a generalization because ---

L5 CCMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Well, let's try.

Make a guess.

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COMMISSICNER KE'mEDY: Could v.cu call me and let me 10 know?

11 MR. RYAN:

Sure.

I 12 i

CCM'i!SSIONER KE'mEDY :

Thank yt 1.

13 CCMMISSIONER GILINSKY: But let me understand what 1

I 14 v.ou are sayinc..

Are vou sav. ing that even with the Simpson/ Hart

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19 3

CHAIPP.A'i HE'IDRII: You ; dust said a rule in clace

^

o s:.x months from enactment.

Ten minutes ago when I asked, it

~

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.i was six months frcm enactment, all we have got to do is to get a

1 1

4 i

one on t".e street, sav.in

What dc you think of this?"

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MR. BICrdIT:

No, it doesn't have to be effective r

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MR. BICrdIT:

It has to be final.

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CHAIPS.AN HENDRIE:

I'm using the wrong words.

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13 CCMMISSIONER AHEAPliE:

Did we get our rule _-raking i

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i 34

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w.w 3-MR. B ICrd!"' :

Yes.

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t CCMMISSIONER AHEAMIE:

It should get out when, next

~

3 a week?

4 MR. BIC'CiIT :

Published Tuesday.

5 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Tcmorrew.

So ccament.s won t be back for 45 days after dat, and it will take anoder two to o

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7

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8 in the meantime, clus de ccaments.

9 b COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:

I thought we were trfing I

i h,i six mcn ds frcm the date of cublication of nctice.

10 1

~

i

.I 11 MR. BIC:w::

The advanced notice?

t 12 i CCMMISSIONER AHEARNE:

Yes.

i l

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13 :

MF. BIC:CiIT :

I didn't read de advanced notice i

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r.un.. M.~o l that deals with de role of the states, and you have got a 4.

1

1 3

batch of states and so on, why I think you are going to be i

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~".=.a. less t.i...e.

I *h.i.ik the ccmment e. ericd r plus the o. ublication eericd and so on, 6

v.cu are talkinc abou' two months more.

Six months is s

I pcssible but doubtful.

3 COMMISSICNER AHEARNE : But possible.

9 C=AIP.M.A'I HENDRIE : Well,it's possible.

It depends u

-he other ccaments are gaine. to range all over the 10 on hcw 11 map, and I thin'c reduction of the conment. to give reasonable 12 censideration or at least minimal acceptable consideration to i

13 the various thinc.s that are croc.osedr it is going to be a 4

14 rather long, agonizing process.

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MR. KAMMEPIR:

It has alvav.s been bev.end Cctcher.

~

I CHAI? MAN HENDRIE: Yes That's a goed point.

I 4

l Let's see, was there sc=ething else in there bothering i i

0 5

, e,.

I

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What 4.cas Simpson/ Hart say abcut the cencurred-in C

d.

l plan route?

In the Glenn a.end.=ent it is clear.

The great a

8 j! rush to cet state plans concurred in is on the basis of presen i

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10 l Is that clear en the Hart / Simp a n side?

i.

l' MR. SIC' GIT :

In both cases you would go with the i

current r m. irements until v.ou.cdify them b'I rule.

And as 12 1

44 13 2 I mentioned, as to when you hace to ae.ly the new criteria, o

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MR. BICKWIT:

I gather thev. haven't.

That :'.ay be 1

4 their inclination and these a.endments are subject to char ce 5

at anytime before being offered.

6 l

CCMMISSIONER AHEARNE:

Well, I guess I wculd still 1

1 7

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3 Johnsten.

The idea of us generating cur cwn clan with the i

i 9

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w4,k.4s a good

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i l

I' 10 CHAIMAN HENDR E :

Dick, do you have a prc.ference in l

I 11 these thine.s?

I 12 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Well, I think I share the view 13 p that you expressed earlier that I don' t think anything is j

el 14

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Having said that, if the cuestion is between Hart /

t.

1 2

i Simpson and Glenn, I would prefer Glenn.

I don' t believe that the Johnston :otion is motivated well, in my view, is i

disacceptible to reasonable implementation on the part of the D

i Ccenission.

I don't think the plan itself would be a useful 6

l device in mest circumstances, at least as useful as visualized, l

7

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with and hope there will be some other way to get at it.

t, 9

COMMISSICNER GI INSKY:

I guess I would ortfer i

i.

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ev--ea s a.'.

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I 10 l

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.c.i...es o n/'.d.a.-*m a

l 11 new plants and existin-c.lants is a good idea.

That no plant w

12 should be licensed without meeting the standards of public l

13 I

protection beyond reactors.

I I

14 CHAIPS.N HENDRIE : You do recognize that it has 15 certain -- that there are certain ancmalies.

I will give i

i i

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,5 lead to that kind of an ancmaly, but in the carticular case

~

New Jersey does have a plan, so we won't have that displayed.

3 And that's why I have aruged that for these plants 4

>; that are essentially at the end of construction new, treat them i o

3.i a.

like operating cla.ts ter many c:_ these back:..1tt.'.ng propos:.tlons !

6 l

and ac.c.lications c:- new rec.uirements.

ti

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Ncw, as you go back the timeframe and say, "Well, how I'l 3

about a plant that is six months away from ccmpletion?"

1 h

9 [ 3etter still, "Hcw about a plant that's two years away," or i

1 10 0. something like that.

Obviously you can' t stretch that way back !

It 11 j, dcwn the line, six =caths, several months, I don't know, would i

,li 12 4 be, for me, a cutoff.

But Simpsen/ Hart.

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CCMMISSIGNER EFADFORD :

Well, it seems to me what 14 i

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we can :'. cst usefully do is the best we can, lav. cut for the 1-C ^w.3. s. s o

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, ta indicate a preference, I suppose I would prefer Si.mpson/' Ort;

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but it seems to me that we are addressing this problem one o

.5 3

0 way, their perception may be that -hey want to put a ccde of a

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rather than us who should appraise what kind of a ccde chev-i.

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CCMMISSICNER SPADFCFO :

Yes,

.C was ccamitting an i'

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I haven't mastered the buses as yet.

12 13 CCMMISSIGNER AHEARNE:

I would be glad tc give vou a

i i

1 14

' '1 advice.

l 1:

CCM'4ISSIONER 3FADFCRD :

I don't think you and I 15

.i 3

16

i take tne same, nc.

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speculates and it, indeed will be down the line scme.onths

^

I after enactment before we really know the ef fects, but the 4'l estimates, I guess, have been traded in a number of cases.

3 i

I 4

COMMISSICNER KEN'i2DY:

Let me note that when you are i

5 ;

talking about the Simpson/ Hart bill and amendments to it, we i.

I 6

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-=.1 k.4..c.

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We a.-a

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t 7

h talking about assessments of cheir impacts.

Those things ought i

8 to be taken account of as well, it seems to me.

'1 i

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CCMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

Well, cor tunications systems, I

I i, internal arrangements of the Commission, response to ---

11 l

12 MR. BICKWIT: This is the bill that our discussion i

13 is centralized on, the Simpson/ Hart arendment which doesn' t t

14 l ' deal with those issues.

j 1

15

]

CCMMISSICNER KINNIDY:

But all of : hose things are 1

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't 28 7

CCMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Yes.

2 COMMISSIO!ER A EAPSE : Why don't we schedule our cwn.

9 i

d COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

And I think that somehcw 4

in the circumstances it seems to me that.given the choice 5

among these.crocesals ---

6 CliAIRMAN :JENDRIE:

I'm sorry, I missed the first O

t d

1 sentence of vcur ccament.

\\

.i 8

i CCMMISSIGIER GILINSKY: Well, I dink that one of the i

e 9

h real.croblems is that I dink that the present state plans dcn't a

10 j address all the problems that need to be addressed and what I

f 11 one reallv needs to do is gee an uc.-graded set of rules to j

l 12 I,

a c. c. i v. to all the plants.

I 13 It seems to me th?.t

.s scmethinc that d be dene, i

14 really, I think on a shcrter ti.e schedule than s:.x months.

l 4*

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~3 dat wid the chances which you have related to us this

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3 et least, how shculd I put it, favored bv. cr at least

^

agreeable to a majority of the Cctsission.

The minority of

~

4 3 the Cercaission think that the slightly greater tir.e and 4

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Glenn amendment would be creferable, and at least two of us s

6 also vcice the view that I think we can get along perfectly 7

! well with rec.ard to the.oublic health and safety wi-hcut -he i

i r

3 legislation.

I i

I 9

L I would also -- Well, does just that much run 10 L cutside anybod'./'s view?

4 s

I 11 I just wanted to add a personal comment and that was I

12 I

that the original provisions in the bill, six =cnths and so i

13 l

on, were just goir g to shutdown substantial generating capacity

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30 a c.lant and cost us $10 million odd dollars er whatever

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the current number is a month for dif ferential."

I think we I5 are going to be sitting here shrugging and say, "Well the l

3 i

4 Congress passed this great law and we agreed that it was a 5'

great idea and we are sorry."

6 That is a personal ccament and I would not asc:: ibe 7 5 i* to

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CCMMISSICN~R BRADFORD:

Well, there may be a variant I

e 9 p of it, but I. auld agree with -- Seb, what would happen if in 10 December the Cornissidn.rrcmulgates a set.

corditions cal'.ed i

I 11 l

" Package A" for concur ence which is different frcm the =cde i

12 ;

that.vou new work on,

.c re sumablv. " Package 3".

You will then i

13 l

have from December to lay to ccncur in ---

I 1.g MR. RYAN:

The Simpson/ Hart savs that you ase the i

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Use the standards that you have ncw.

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T effect and in which the states could conform to those 2

i regulations.

3 I don't see any circumstances under which the l

a 1.

4 Commission would throw out all of the elements which are now i

5 l considered in concurrence and s+: art with something less than t

i 6

l that.

So the concurrence contemplated under the present f

i 7

schene and the ac.c.roval contemplated under '.he re2ulatcrv.

8

! scheme would have certain commen features.

i 9

ii COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:

Yes, but one could imagine

.I 10 I

a situation in which you said to a particular state, "All right, i

9 11 l if we can't ~eet concurred in v.our clan bv. mid-Mav., v.ou will i

have to shutdown."

Tnen sometime after that, depending on 12 13 what we decide in the rulemaking, after v.ou sav. to them three t

14 or four months later, "and new, we can't achieve the following i

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t 15 by another period of time w:.:n'.n crocably the same calendar

l year, we will have to shut you dcwn

ain.*

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MR. RYAN:

It couldn' be, I On't -hin'< :.f you ar e

'. talking having the bill enacted in, say Septericr.

It would be 65 i,

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3, from four to six acnths ".ou would get the rules into place

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and that would bring v.cu in to the spring of next vear, and

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1 then a year from that would be the scrinc of

'82.

t 4

CO.NISSIONER GILINSKY:

Let me ask you something i

3 else.

I i

l 6

What happens if there are several sites in the 7

1 state and the plan as you have laid out, the guidelines and I

l' I

3 so on don't really deal scecifically with individual sites, t

i i

4 3

do thev?

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10 vR. RYAN: No. What we usually do is incern. crate a lan to deal vid a particular site as cart of the state l

11 t'

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12 pian.

And so f ar, we have been able to do that withcut great

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14 I don't have much -- it is not upsetting to

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CHAIFF.AN HENDRIE: Whv. don't we turn to whatever the.

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next one of these objects is.

l' 3

'i MR. SICKWIT:

Okav, I think the naxt important area J

4 is ---

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CHAIID!AF HENDRIE: By -he way, before we leave that 3

6 Peter was saying that we ought to get some indication of

one,

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impacr., and I guess, would it be -- could I gather enough 3

support frcm the Ccemission so that an additional ecur.ent after 9

'i the main one that Carl could make to our friends in the 10 Concress the Senate et any rate

.s that in order to carry r

11 out these kinds of things, emergency planning is the particular i.

I I

12 1. ssue at hand, but there are other areas.

We can't indefinitely f

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dcwn

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'i e with a Commission each year proposing some

,I 14 modest increases of these suc. cort of fices which come under i

if 15 llI the heading of program technical suppcrt er program development ;

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sense of it. I'm ".ct sure whether -he ---

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CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Precise language ---

2 'l e

COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:

Yes.

3 a

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE :

Okay.

4 MR. RYAN:

Mr. Chairmani mav. I sav. somethin in that I

5 connection?

i 6

CHAIP2GN HENDRIE :

I guess so.

l b

"I MR. RYAN:

There was a cut by the Ecuse t

i 8

Appropriations Cc=tittee which in terms of our of fice means

.i 9

$700;000 which, if sustained will mean that we will have to I

I cancel cur training program in the Nevada test grounds.

10 f

11 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Well ---

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12 CCMMISSIONER KENNEDY: What was the purpose of the i

13 l

5 7 0 0,0 0 0 and -- -

I 14 MR. RYAN: To mount this program.

15 CCMMISSICNER KENNEDY: That was the amount of the i

I 7 o-

c. roc. ram?

And the accrocriations?

'C.

.I3$ I HENDR*E:

No,

".he 3700,000 was the cC-going U

17 4

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y CHAIP.'4A'i HENDRIE : Well, in a verv veiled wav, I was

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s a v. i n c. I'm trv.ina. to make some inc. ression on the collective -.-

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2 CCMMISSIONER KENNEDY: About the $700,000 program?

3 a

's CHAIRMAN '3ENDRI'. :

Yes, ves.

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What I was innlv. inc., in a veiled wav., is that I'm doing my best to the aepropriations committees to not leave us withcut l

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9 l need agai.st the other agency needs and see if, indeed, it i

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doesn' t ra.-k up into the funding level.

I'm inclined to think -,-

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l 11 j, CC'LMISSIONER KENNEDY: I 100 percer.: support you.

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12 il CHAIRM.VI HENDRIE :

So that's 'ie thrus t there.

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13 :

Ecv abo:t the next one, whatever it may be.

t 14 MR. SIC:"dIT :

Before we co on, I guess I ought to r

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, moratorium on construction carmid.s, starting with the

^

3 beginning of the next fi.

3 1 ' ear and going for six months i

3 into the year.

a 4

CHAIFMAN HENDRIE : Whad would that be, October 1st 5

to something or other?

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i 6

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8 Senator Percy?

f 9

I' MR. BICKWIT:

Not t7 m v. knowledc. e.

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10 Senator Eart is folding an amendment into the

, Kennedy amen. men. which would require within six months, and 11 d

I don' t know whether it is six =cnths from enact tent c:- the same 12 13 six-month period that Senator Kennedy is talking about.

I t

14 think it is the same 2-

' month pericd Senator Kennedy is talking

..i 15 l about, that would require the Ccemissicn to prcpose scme new I.

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..I CO.NC4ISSIONER AHEARNE :

So it is a six-mon'.h stoo

! without any conditions if that's to be mne in :. hat six months,

~

4 3 I i

p and the Hart is in the condition.

Now, is the Hart the i

4 condition that this must be done to l'ft the moratorium i

I 5

t, or is it an additional feature that must be done in that

~

6 l six month ---

lll t

7 l

MR. BIC: GIT:

I don' t believe it must be done to I

t 8

lift the moratorium! but there is a -.andamus provision that 9

youla

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a. m.a. 4 '. ke do.i-.

ww a

~

I 10 l

CC91ISSIONER AHEARNE: Anvthin9 scecific about what 4

11 i these siting provisions are supposed to be?

f Lt 12 d

MR. 5:C: GIT -

Y:s.

I I

13

'9 "Thc.y shall address to the maximum extent 4

h 14 b practical the following:

n.

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d..

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i facility that have a si:nificant bearinc. on the probability i

3

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or consequences of accidental rel.ase of radioactive materials i

4 nay modify the applicabil~ity c-such requirements."

i CHAIF. VAN HENDRIZ :

I must sav., I see very little I

coint in an arbitrarv -- As I have said before, an arbitrary l

6 i

l 7

I, suscension of construct:.on cernu.ts.

to i

i 8

}

I knew one c. lace ',here tnm were contemclated as I

9 l

a lecislative croc.osal.

I noted that the state involved was i,

I t

i 10 i.

in a situation in which it would not effect, in any wav, anv.

i j

of the proposed units in that state.

I don' t :ccw :.f that 11 i

l 12 i

is the case in Massachusetts or not, but it simply makes no l

i j

13 sense to ce, and the further business about the siting 14 regulations, We have in process and a task force to lock at it.

l i.

15 It is a ccmplex matter to take into account the maximum m e.s e h. 4 m.m 1 e x e m.m. e..

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!,- there,J'e, but I Would basica'ly agre7 I WCuld be against a S. 5 i

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,t l to decide whether or not to go ahead on a par-icular plant and

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3 assur.e we will ~.eet that responsibility.

Sc I would be 4

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10 question head on, f ace en so that the public clearly understands t

I 11 creciselv. what it has 3'ust decided on its behal#, and whatever I

that decision, I would applaud it.

12 i

13 C '".. F a~ S ' C ' F 4.s' = u' "'F.-

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e 14 The c.eint is, if it is a c.uestien of the health and c,=.. 4 a.ds. *m. *..' */

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in order that we would propese io curselves.

^

7

'6 It seems to me that deir jud g.ent of our process I

.i l is theirs to make and about the most I would sav about it is i

4 that if I saw the moratorium were in order, I would vote to i

impose it here rather than advise the Congress to do it.

6 Cu, 2 MAN.ur wRIr.

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8 CCMMISSIONER GILINSKY :

I would agree.

9

-l CCMMISSIONER BRACFORD:

That having been said, I guess!

l 6

I 10 there is noting that we have indicated for our cwn purpcses i

'l l

11.; da t there were some preconditions to further licensing ard we il 12 are still working that out separatel'f.

i 13

]

CCMMISSICNER AHEARNE:

Yes.

f

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l' 6

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15 CRAI.}1AN HENDRIE:

Okay, the next amend. men t.

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they think we ouc.ht to take into account in the oublic health.

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2 and safetv. business, I think that's wholly within their i

3 c.rovince and we should be guided accordingly.

I don't think 4

I want to give them guidance as to what I'd like guidance about. ;

S' CCM.MISSIGNER AHEARNE: Excect I doubt that in contrast i

5 I

6 1,,,,...i ous wh.e -a w e

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I'm leary about being able to get into place that rule in 9

i six months.

I think we ought to mention to them that that

.I 10

] seems to be ---

j l'

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Particularly if it is going to s

12 start -- Well, Cctober 1st you could regard as ---

I 13 CCMMISSIONER AHEARNE: And that's an overly ammiticus 14 i; schedule.

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u hemergencyclanningandmycc= ment about cur proposal :.s 1

2 j really to indicate that this is really the time scale and I would 3

h like to see us move on.

f' i

I 4 l CCMMISSIONER AHEARNE:

Right, since we are already i

5' going in that direction with Simpson/ Hart, I have no problem.

6 CHAI?y.AN dENDRII:

Well I must say, an amend.ent which i

t,

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in particular with regard to previsions having to do 'li.th I

9

4. O.cc. ulation densities and distribution of populatien about I

10 l

potential sites, and implement or promote amendments that deems '

i I

11 necessar"2 and appropriate within six months, I "hink, you could 12 at least m.ake a stab at it.

13 When you crank it up with words like "T.aximum, i

3 practical,"

what for Gcd's sakes, does that mean;" hat every 4

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43 setting it up so it can' t be done is to kill the whole

^

process, then once again it becomes a moratoriurt cuestion and 3

_ I think the f air thing to do for the senator is to set down 4

and propose no more plants be sited and vote on the issue,

,!ahich in fact, underlies the proposition.

)

J i

4 CCMi!SSICNER AREARNE :

Could I get a, perhaps someone I

9 t

, more familiar with leg:.slative language than I could answer, 3

when the phrase "to the maximum extent practical," does that I

9

=ean do as best you can or does it mean something. ore in the i

i 10 l mathematical sense, tia maximum that the Chairuan alluded

[

l 1

o co.

4 r!

12 d

MR. BICKWIT:

I think i t means do the bect you can.

I l

13 MR. SHAPAR:

And be pre-ared to litigate.

1 e

i 14

'I C'GIMAN HINDRIE :

Yes, I look forward to explaininc.

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how about that for lan uac.e?

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9 Well, en the ---

J 2

i MR. SICKWIT

It's do the best you can, but it is l

I not do the best, which in your judgment you can.

It is do the 5

best, which in t'le court's judgment you can.

COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:

Tcu would agree with Howard?

7 J

MR. SICKWIT:

Yes, yes I would.

j 3

CCMMISSIONER AHEARNE :

Be prepared to litigate.

uy 9

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Well, for myself, I would take l-h.thepcsitionthat 10 these admoniticas to change the siting lJ 11 segulations don't scund to me -- it is the first time I have 1

12 l heard it, as a matter of fact.

I still don't have a co.ev.

13 j' written dcwn any place so I can read the language.

.I t sounds d

'.t l4 to me like a fairly bad idea.

And I would accreciate ccmment 14 n

'. 5

.'. up and dcwn the table, and maybe we can.cve to the next one.

t

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16 COMMISS *CNER 3RACFORD : Well, -here is na reason not

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CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Yes, the maximum practical 2

• consideration struck me as a bloody horror, but it sounded to 3

I me as thouch there were some other things dug icwn in there 4

i that sort of had the same ring to them.

i

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COMMISSIONER BRACFCPS :

I took the others to be mostly -

6 l

. ell, listing in topics we cught to consider or areas that we n

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l MR. BICKWIT:

Well, address to the maximum extent l

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practic&l, the following.

i 10 CCMMISSIONER KENNEDY : This is the r'.'es, should be i

I 11

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12 MR. BICKWIT:

(Ncds in the affi-mative.)

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13 l

COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD : Well, it is no: an area in j

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14 which I would oc.cose the Congress legislating an any cf t.he i

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>s 4o MR. B ICKWI'" :

Mr. Chairman, I think the Commission

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l is opposed to both ends of this equation, i

3 l

i y

CHAIRMAN HENDRIZ:

To the moratorium provisions, I f

4 think clearly.

I think also, to the extent that on the other 3

half, I would clearly -- I read it as a moratorium sort of 6

thing, that is, an essentially incessible task being assigned 7

i under the law and then the result is, well, you couldn't do 8

that and kncck everything off and set it un so that lawsuits i

i l

9 h will be not only permitted, but encouraged and de law is I

10 l

carefully oriented so they are bound to suceed and the result I

11 l

is that everything gets cranked dow'1.

12 So I'm rabidly opposed to it.

I'm not sure that i

13 l

that could be regarded as the view of the Commission.

Peter i

+

14 has noted that indeed, it is fair to where there is some r.ercet. tion that carricular lanc.uac.e may create more problem i-

. %.e o-rc..ac

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COMMISSIONIP KENNIOY. As I,

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3 CHAIM!AN HENDRIE:

That's right, we have been working

on it.

3 l CCMMISSICNER KENNEDY:

We have been at this for some 4

years, and it seems to me that if, in fact, there is a genuine 5

danger that we could not submit an ef fort and complete the task in six months, the Conc.ress shoul4 he aware of that, 6

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10 but we should not, I think, suggest that we are starting from 12.

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Certainly,,

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l 4

Thev. will be as obvicus to the Congressmen as they are to us.

se.

CF 3.IR.V.AN HEND RIE :

Yes, I think I understcod that t

6 i point of view cn your part, Peter, and hope hat Carl had

/

noted it.

t 8

2 ob'ection to tne six-month moratorium cn 3,.;w, m v.

J l

9 cps :.s 1: the Congress is concerned about health and safety r

10 i and dcesn't think we have got the guts or the wisdcm to do I

11 what is necessary, why are they fool'ng around with cps.

.]

12 i! I have never seen a clant in the construction termit sta-e t

.1 13 i that has fission products in it, and fission products are I

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other a,endments. Time rur.

on.

CHAIRMAN ENDRIE : Well cor.sidered.

1 b.

3 CCMMISSIONER KENNEDY: What is the next one, Counsellcr?

I 4

MR. BICKWIT:

The next area is the waste area.

i

-3 Senator McGovern wi.ll offe: a proposal cc give states 6

l a veto over the sitine. of waste facilities.

I, I

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we have?

i 9

.v '. BICKWIT:

Yes.

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I 10 There are a number of other amendments in this area.

1 I

11 I gather that the ficar manager can move to table the McGove:.

I r

12 amendment, that they have the s,.: ppt et o# the Energy Committee t

i 13 and the ranhng me=cers or the Governmental Af f airs Cc=mittee, l

t I

14 j

and that includes the mincrity sides of all three cccmittees.

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50 1

i CC&!ISSICNER AHEAPSE:

Wait!

2 j

MR. BICKWIT:

Just the opposite, which would deny 1

lh the rights of a state, that 3

l 4

COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Excuse me, now what ---

i 5

MR. BICKWIT: The idea was that if ---

j i

6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:

If you have a nuclear plant i,

I 7

in your state 1 you do not have a right to have a veto on 8

disposal of waste in your state.

i 9

h MR. SICKWIT:

9. hat's right.

10 i

COMMISSIONTm AHEARNE:

If you do not.. ave a nuclear 11 plant in your state, then you would. have the right to dispose i

i of waste.

17 i

13 COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD:

Suc.cosin7 vou own a c.iece I

1.g of a nuclear plant 1". another state?

MR. BICKWIT:

We have not seen language that

.3 i

f 16 COMMISSIGNER KENNEDY: What was your cuestion?

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MR. BICFWIT:

We have seen no language in that regard.

6

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,1 MR. BICKWIT:

The Icnenici amendrent would recuire 3,.

that "he Secretary of Energy and the individual states.egctiate 5

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a relationshic. with resc.ect to sitin~ or waste rac1: ties, v

state-by-state and until thev nec.otiate it, no waste fac:lity

~

o 3 l

3. t can be sited, which is tantamount to a state veto.

i 4

i CCMMISSIONER AMEARNE: Are you describinc-Dcmenici's J

l.'.

i as one c: tne amendments that wou2d not be o:..:ered :.

o I

l 6

f McGovern'c is tabled?

I t

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understandinc is that none of these would be offered if tne A

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McGovern is tabled.

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r il COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

Demenici's '.'ould not?

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10 I

11 i

MR. BICKWIT: That is my uncerstandint,.

i i,

l 12 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

That sounds like a result hardly l

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13 to be sought.

i MR. BICKWIT: And Glenn and.ercy have an arendment 14

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! which allows for a Congressional override by a concurrent 15 a

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2 I would think that you would want, whichever way you ccme 1

3 l out, c.erhacs would want to address that question and cerha-se 4

have scmethin3 to say about it.

l 5

u'CMMISSIod?.R AHEARNE : There is a related -- in for 1

6 example, the Demenici amendment in which an arrangement entered i

i into by the Secretary of nergy and state is binding on all 7 ?

8 agencies of the "ederal Government.

l 9

ii MR. SHAPAR: That's one of the provisions I was I

il 10 il referring to.

d CCMMI55IONER AHEARNE:

Yes.

And thar's nnt so much 11 i 12 i Ehe veto as it is that here's au arrangement DOE makes in which l

1 13 the law wculd seem to say would then be binding on us.

14

] I don' t think we would want to deal with those.

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C" AIRMAN HENDRIE: Ls. And that amend ent says the

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i CCM.VISSIONER BRACFCRD:

Yes, does have that

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4 CCMMISSICNER KENNEDY: Yes, but I think that 's j us t

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COMMISSICNER KENNEDY: He is talking about the i

9 Chai:=an of the Atomic Energy Ccmmission, really.

10 COMMISSIGNER AHEARNE: But for those functions which I

i 11

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COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

Yes,

-hat's right.

t I

a 13 The Comenici amendment takes that same language and t

14 says 00E.

I think this is a technical problem which needs i

i 15 to be corrected, in any event.

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CCMMISSICNER KENNEOY: No. This au-hori::es you to --

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2 j this directs you to go tell the states, tribes, et cetera ---

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CCM.MISSIONER KENNEDY: -- abcut the exc. loration in 6

i, which you intenu cc dc.

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in moving to table that this subject matter shculd be dealt 9

with in the context of general waste legislation.

Che 10 l

Cccmission supports. hat view to avoid with dealin"2 with the i

11 l

sc.eci#ics invcived.

I 12 CCMMISSIONER AHEARNE:

Yes.

13 CCMMISSIONER K.ZNNEDY:

I think it is a splendid view.

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that exercise cf the points of view.

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i CCMMISSICNER AHEA?lII:

I would end up supporting 6

i who is offering the Glenn amendment, but the 1cea or a 1

i 4p Congressional override.

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10 CCMMISSIONER AHEA? lie:

I would be in ravor of it.

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11 CHAIP.v>21 HENDRIE :

I would too, just because I think 12 j

ulti.ately the Congress is going to have to break the deadicek i

13 j

by passinc a l'aw saying -his is the way it's going to be.

i 14 COMMISSIONER 3?.;DFORD :

So you would be in favor of

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exerc:.se 2t at one.olace after there has been a sufficient pro and con set of discussions and hearings and then provide,

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i which is our Congressional override, because with the national i

4 co lic./, I just think, we are c.oinc. to need it."

t 5

Co.vMISSICNER KENNIJY: Well, I would have cene to i

I f,

6 that wid an intervening step dat first, I wculd have hoped 1

7 that a state veto would not have been enacted, that a state I

t ll 8

censultation would be assured, but not necessarily veto.

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9 0

Secondly, if, in fact, then ene did go ta to establish!

d 10 f a veto proposition I would prefer to see the Executive -- the i

11 President be authori::ed to override that in the national 12 interest.

Failing that, I would then have turned to the 13 l

Glenn/Perci proposition.

There should be a Congressional t

i 14 override.

i 15 MR. SHAPAR:

Of cour.se, the states have an effective n-.. ". ~. ^

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.-21 CHAIRMA:I HENORIE:

It is primarily that this sert of

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2 thing ought to be considered in the context of an overall waste i

3

! managemen bill, rather than tacked on as an amend.ent or 4

alternative amend =ents to the authorization bill, where there 5~

hasn't been -- you knew, it is a subject that clearly is worth 6

talking about at scme length and deserves better :han the kind 7

of consideration it gets here this morn:ng in these amendments.

I 8 !

MR. B!Ch~dIT:

And do you want to indicate concurrence i 9 h around an'I other oroc. esition?

10 3

CHAI?. VAN HENDRIE:

I think there is a majority, i

i 11 ;

altnough not a clear unanincus sentiment en the Commission

• hat i

12.

indeed, if scmething like these amendments come, probably i,

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13 scmething like the override is useful to talk about because i

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s otherwise ycu mav. 4ust paralize the systemi and sooner or 1

', !, later we will have to come to that point.

But I feel a litnle 2s l

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CHAI?. VAN HENDRIE: les.

The w'y I read these a.endments

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includin9 e.cssibly AFRs.

CHAIRMAN HENDR ?: Yes, and Icwlevel stuff, I expect.

3 i

Okay, let's trv. the next amendment.

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MR. BICf4IT:

I'm just going to *.ick off some of i

5 these which I don' t think will cause you any problems.

i 6

Cemenici will offer the Cc= mission's mill tailings a

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] language.

,i 3

CrMMISSICNER AREARNE:

We've in favor of it.

0 0,,

MR. BICKWIT:

I assume v.ou are in favor of it.

9 10 CHAIRMAN HE'iCRIE.

Mill tailings language.

Is he i

llformilltailingsoragainst 11 it?

12 MR. BICKWIT: For cur procosal.

I 13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIF.: Which is?

14 M2.. BICKWIT: For it.

I 1

15 CCMMISSIONER AHEARNF: The one we sent up, remember it? '

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.39 1

CCMMSSICNER AHEAPlIE:

Please do.

2 MR. BICKWIT:

The DeConici amendment would be offered, 3

l which allcws the Commission to restore its regulatory authority i

4 without notice in hearing, even tu the case of an agreement 5

state.

6 l

CCMMISSICNER AHEARNE : That's the one we have a copy 4

7 l

of?

j j

8 l

MR. BICKWIT: That's right.

l

}

9 h

CCMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Ecw does that differ from I

10 the au dority the Cecmission new has under such ---

i i

11 i

MR. SFAPAR:

You need a hearing.

12 COMMISSIONER AHEAPliE: And also, it enables us to go I

i 13 l

af ter just part of it.

J I

74 MR. SHAPAR:

You can go after part cf it now, this 1

I' 15 would enable you to go after one sit _at:.cn.

l L o-1, C " ~MM '- = S ' C ' en- "' ~~ ~' ~' 'i = r! -

Na

"cw.^o vo" ---

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1 1-j CHAIRMA.'i HZNORII:

I 2c u g'~.: the presenc situation

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MR. SHAPAR:

It was amended vid de -.iil tc.' '.ings

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3 MR. SHUAR:

This wcu'.d enable you to pinpoint a

,.'s p specific c.lant.

2 4

/

1 S'

d I

q g e

h 9

j a

60

~.

CCMMISSICNER GI'INSKY: But where is the language that al.

~

does that?

I thought -- It still says all or part, doesn't it?

I MR. SHAPAR: Well, legislative history of the other l

s i

4 one, I think, means the part is a b i-c. art, like all bv.o.roduct v

-o or a source.

I D

i COMMISSIONER KINNEDY.

It winds up by saying, 7

provided,hcwever, that a temporary suspension under this l

i 8

subparagraph shall authorize the Cc= mission to exercise its I

1 I

I 9

authority only to the extent necessary to contain or eliminate f

10 the danger, and only for such time as the emergency situation I

11 i exists."

12 I'

CCMMISSIONER GII.INSKY: I see, so it is more specific.

13 COMMISSIONER KINNEDY:

It is a piece of the part.

i 14 CHAIP.V.AN HENDRIE :

Yes.

The DeConici amendment speaks l 15 to dealing with an emergency situatien which presumably then is one clant er a coucle of closed c.lants or a particular 1-o

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MR. SHAPAR:

And without hearing, to also raspend 20 i

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MR. SHAPAR:

J'.2 s t send a telecram.

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u o i a-3 do in any event, would we not?

3 d

W CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Anv, cc: vent on this one, Scb?

b 4 i MR. RYA'T :

Yes sir. I think, en balance, I suc.c. ort t

3 t the idea, that an amendment like this wculd be helpful becausa it 6 l would have the practical effect of making the states pay a 7

de a.'.

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I proceed frem the a.rc9 ram with the NRC.

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Mr. Kerr, who i, not here today has asked me to point t.

i l

hout, and I will, that it is, hcwever, tailored to a specific 10 d

11 situation and he cuirie s whether it is desirable to lee islate 12 on the basis of one situation.

i.

13 We can think of no comrarable situation frem the c.ast,i

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13 4 reccccendatiJns concerning agreement states cases.

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r MR. RYAN:

I don't.hink we have been bccbar ed in d

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62 the. cast with c.articu'ar cases er states asking for us to take.

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the heat.

I think we have been asked from time to time for

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3 t

suc.c. ort ---

n i

4 CHAIFF.AN HENDRIE:

No, but we sure get & lov Or

.32.1 I

complaining about things in a ;reement states.

i 5

6 ;

MR. RYAN:

I'm scrry.

I don ' t know that to be the 1'

7 l care, Mr. Chairman.

i d

l MR. SHAPAR: Well, I think with this legislation in if I

9 ll the bccks, it might serve as an invitation.

I guess beycnd 10 !

chz. t, I guess I have.aised the questica of whether or not the i

i l

11 l Commission would have sort of a continuing cbligation to more i

12 l closel.y monitor the activities of the states, because the 13 Commission, according to the legislatien, can, on its cwn i

i 14 motion extend that requirement.

If you have thac authority, i

I 13 I we.id think you would be kind of ccmpelled to -onitor more

' closelv.

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So we tre expected

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.t 63 I

1

=e is that under the law as it stands new we are required to

! make a health and safetar detern.ination ---

i I

3 0

MR. SRAPAR: Annuallv.

I 4

CCMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

No, no.

Before we would 5

susc.end or terminace part of an amreement.

Here, it 1ccks as 6

if -- I see, the Cor:r. ission still has to make a judgmen: that 1

t an emergency still exists.

Okav..

I e

r l

l 8

i 1

^

I wanted to MR. SHA?AR:

One other cuestion that I

1 1

9 h raise is that '.ne Ccemission would exercice its authority only t

10 l

to the extent necessary to contain or eliminate the danger.

0 11 Then the state, of course, would move back in, and I guess the l

12 question I want to raise is maybe that line isn't all so clear.

13 that ycu would' have, really, two agencies involved in health 1,

.4 and safety.

I I

.i e

l COMMISSICNER GILINSKY:

Suppose, I don't knew hcw

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i CCMMISSICNER AHEARNE:

Sur even then, ycu would still

~

2 need a hearing.

4 t

'l 3

MR. SHAPAR:

You would need a hearing unde, the 1

i 4

present law before you could terminate.

Now, 'he only grounds l

of termination is lack of adequacy to protect the public health 3

6 and safety which presumably would be the grounds, as you 1

7 stated it.

3 i

CCMMISSIONER AHEAR'E : Bill, do you have any cccments 9

!. on this?

10 l

MR. DIRCKS:

No.

I think the point that Howard i

11 raised about what is the cutting peint that we make, byproduct i

i 12

material,

'ific plants handling specific isotopes.

I think i

13 l

these are the areas.

14 CCMMISSIONER AHEARNE:

Do you have iny comment on t

1:

CeConicir the amendnent?

I l

i 16 MR. CIRCKS:

What?

1 M M V.V..'".C. O". s. a

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COMMISSICNER AHEAR'E: Io you have any problem with it? '

O i

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., 3 CC."d.MISSIONER KENNEDY :

I have no problem with it.

3 COMMISSICNER 3' RAD.rCRD :

(Nods in agreement.)

, c,.

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5

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b

,13 i

- J

..CD CHAIRMA;l ".ENDRII:

I have no real problem with it

~

O.' " -'. e.".

3 I will add a ccm ent that it will be not an encr.cus<

4 but I expect over time not a trivial I&E resource user.

I'o r 5

facilities in agreement states operating under license by that i

6 :j state, e v e r v. b c d v. that dcesn't like them can cceplain to us, 4

7 and sav., "Under v.our emergencv. c.cwers v.ou ought to c.et in there 9

and shut this pit.nt down."

And in order to know whether we havs b

9 cot a real situaticr or 3'ust a ccme.laint from semebcdv. who i

10

.i doesn't like the c.aant, whv. out will go the I&E team and once I

I 11 in a while one of Bill's cecc.le, the re gional license inspectors J

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13

.,l 6

13 J

MR. DIRCFS:

And the mills tco, the uranium mills.

j l

14 CHAI. MA'. IENDRIE :

A.d uranium mills also.

15 So I th nk the amendment, which seems '.ike a useful C

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Sc it is appropriate to at 50 a-

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an inspection, an investigation area.

I can just see it going down the line. There will be another 100-cdd cases a year

]

for inspection / investigation on specific cc= plaints.

3 4

Vic, how do yc a feel about it? '

5 CCMMISSICNER GILINSKY:

I guess I move the same as o

I 6

l vou.

1 4

I i

7

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3 CCM.MISSICNER 3RADFORD:

I have no difficulty with it.

I 9

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Let's see, they were locking for i

10 informal cc= ment.

I c.uess the infc mal ccament is the l

11 Cc= mission believes it would be a useful piece of authority 12 j

and just notes in p issing that en down the line it will i

13 j

create a resource naed, because of the need to investigare.

]

l 74 CCMMISSICNER GILINSKY: "'his dcesn' t af fect our i

I

'I curren* authority to take over or suspend part of an agreement 15 4

,!i, as c. revicusiv. inter reted, because it is generally not 3-3

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COMM SSICNER AHEA3NE. P.a t specifical -' 's in mind

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i 0I MR. BICK'dIT :

Excuse me?

.,i C C MM 2 a "m".r R n'.*3.rn'.'"..# -

N. ". 7. '. s e.: c.i.#.4

=.1.' v, i a-4..

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bv. the c.hrase " insular area"?

i t

4 MR. BICrdIT:

I dcn ' t know.

I haven't even seen the 4

5 '

language.

It sounds like you have.

6 (Mr. Bickwit provided a copy of the doc"=ent. )

7 MR. BICrdIT:

I have no idea.

8 ;

COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:

The gentleman on my left i

i i'

9

'e suggests Pureto Rico.

i 10 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

The Virgin Islands.

11 COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD:

'de ll, I suppose if there is l

+

to be Pacifi: base for spent fuels for sacebody, that might 12

1. al.l

" 4.d e ~-

+w."..a..

1 i

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• 4 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Let's see,

't is prior to the 1

i I

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, o-MR. SICrdIT:

Yes.

Now, there will be an ameni~.ent l

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1 the collect 1Cn points to the waste disn.csal labs.

So we 2

have a jcb of classifying what nuclear wastes would be inclu. led 3

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.MR. DIRCKS:

It would be cretty ti,ht.

l In addition to that ---

10 I

1 11 CCMMISSIO: ER KENNEDY:

I think it vould be remarkabic.,lj l

12 because we have been setting October 1st as the assumed date 33 for enactment, which would be the same date we would e to I

.4 comclete this, i

]

CHAIFliAN HINORII:

We just aren't going to get there

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1, 69 MR. DIRCKS:

They are not even required to notify 7

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COMMISSICNER 3RADFORD :

Ch.

But at least they are now required to notify us.

5' MR. DIRCKS:

No, only for certain tv.e.es of wastes, 6

for example, spent fuel. They are required to : otify us.

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CHAIF3 TAN HINDRIE:

I think -- you kncw --

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i leuislatien is practical in anv. sense only if we are willing t

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11 l the amendnent takes hold and that we are willing to go forward l

i with a rule here that limits the waste for which notification 12 i

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will be supplied to a couple of very specific highlevel 13 L

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14 categories.

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CCMMISSICNER SPACFORD :

Well, I wouldn't go so far as

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1 7C to say that states shouldn't have notice of at least highlevel.

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4 and i:npose whatever re9uirement that we feel necessar,/ to i

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6 be interested in.

But I wouldn't, myself, want to sign en I

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.MR. DIRCKS:

If we are talking about hic.hievel l

10 wastes and spent fuel, as a matter cf fact, we are not really 1

1 11 shicain3 any highlevel waste now, and spent fuel i= caally 12 CHAI.P. MAN HENDRIE : The only highlevel waste is spent l

t 13 i

fuel.

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.MR. DIRCKS: -- is spent fuel, and under this new i

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!! procedure that we hate, the safesuarding precedure, we are o

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NRC, beca".se there are shipper that we don' regulate, and 2

,' if nhe c.oint in to have states comperhensivelv notif:' d of a 1 3

shipmente for certain types of mat rial, it is better to put I

4 i the burden on che shippers than it is to put the burden on 5'

someone who doesn' t have jurisdiction over a f air porcion of i

their shipments.

6 t

MR. SHAPAP:

I guess 00'" would have authority now i

i 8

to compel us to do it, wouldn' t v. ou think?

Under the

'l 9

L hazardcus mrterial act.

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10 MR. MALLORY:

I think it is interesting to note that I

I i

11 i.

as I understand it we ': sed to have a program of notifv. ing the 12 states of when highlevel waste shipments were made.

And I 13 I

gather ths the reaction of the states was,

'"4 hat are we going i

i I

to do with this information?"

I have refused that for years 14 15 l and then the program was stopped, and then ---

16 CCMMI55IONZR BPA FORD.

Ihat was a few years ago, io

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,3 3 CHAI.3tA'i HZ'IC R 2 : 'de ll, I note a range of views, but 19 I don't knew.

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CCMMISSIONIR AHI.'-dCII:

I don't think we can make 23

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will be doing that.

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3 CHAIRMAN HENDRII:

Or already doing it.

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CCBDiISSIONER AHEA?llE :

I don' _ think the legislation l

4 p is coing that, necessarily.

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It isn' t necessarv., we are doing what is contenplated.

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ll COMMISSIONER 3 FAD'iCRD: Richt, but when we say we are a

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m 10 to also to add the point that what we are doing doesn' t cover

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i 12 l

CH? IP.V.AN HIND RII :

Yes, that it covers our licensees, 13 and what we are talking abcut is the highlevel stuff,

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14 spent f'.e l, at the present tine, and that it dcesn't cover what l

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Vice President and consist o# private individuals, a s t'- -

n cc= mission, on the status of our energy problems.

CCMMISSICNER AHEARNE:

I would prefer not to CC= ment 4

on that one.

l i

5 CHAI.O. MAN HENDRIE - Did we get to ser.d Jctebcdy t0 -he I

6 s.o,. h A _ 4 a.,,.

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MR. 3ICh"dIT :

You would kncw.

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CCMMISSIONER AHEARNE:

Do you have any other amendments 1

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1 l

10

.MR.

37C.KW'*..-

Yes, ~.". e.>. e.i.. ~. *.. e.d..a.. *. " ". = ~. wcu.'d I

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I 11 require resident inspectors to live within five miles of a l

12 i

plant.

t 13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Absolutely

.ot.

Jesus Christ, if i

14 we had one more requirement for the resident inspectors, it l

t 15 becomes humanly impossible.

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the nor-h gate once a day for a half heur's exposure.

How 2

abouu that 3

,l, COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:

Perhaps you could just pass down 4

+ k. a. ~. w %.e C cn.m. ; o s.4 n i s, n a.4...- s.

1' s..

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5 COM'4ISSICNER KENNED:

Perhaps we could make a 6

requirement that the licensc.as establish small school

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I MR. BICKWIT:

There is a Church / Jackson proposal g

1 to add $20 to $25 million for NRC safety research.

9 L.

CCMMISSIONER AHEAR'iE :

To add it?

30 p

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• o add.

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MR. BICKWIT:

To add $20 or $25 million for NRC g

safety research.

And that will be opcosed by Simeson and 14 3

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MR. BICKWIT: That's all I know.

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-he bill which is new -- Well, I guess it is new ready for -he i

floor.

But their point was, "Leck, if we do this, we can then e

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regcrd whatever sum is put in there as having been authorized,

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l and when the su c.lement ccmes throuc.h, then all vou need is t

3 a supplementary appropriation.

You have all read'.r get l

4 authori::ation for at least that chunk.

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6 Research?

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MR. BICKWIT:

(Ncds in the affirnative.)

t l

8 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I'm inclined to think that --

I 9

v.cu kncw, s cmebcdv. is going to want to talk abcut what it is I

10 going for, whether it is the appropriation cc=mictee or the i

l i

11 i

authori::ation committee, and I':n sure both will, on the other i

i 12 hand I hat =. to be negative abcut who would like to provide 13 l

us a little more elbcw reca in the budget.

I I

14 CCMMISSICNER AHEARNE:

I guess my attitude would be I

la-that we will certainly be asking for supplemental.

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