ML13114A107
| ML13114A107 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Sequoyah  |
| Issue date: | 04/03/2013 |
| From: | Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards |
| To: | |
| Sayoc E, 415-4084 | |
| References | |
| NRC-4104 | |
| Download: ML13114A107 (66) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION Title: Sequoyah Units 1 and 2 License Renewal Scoping Meeting Afternoon Session Docket Number: 50-327 and 50-328 Location: Soddy-Daisy, Tennessee Date: April 3, 2013 Work Order No.: NRC-4104 Pages 1-66 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 + + + + +
4 SEQUOYAH UNITS 1 AND 2 5 LICENSE RENEWAL SCOPING MEETING 6 AFTERNOON SESSION 7 + + + + +
8 Soddy-Daisy Hall 9 9835 Dayton Pike 10 Soddy-Daisy, Tennessee 37379 11 + + + + +
12 April 3, 2013 13 + + + + +
14 2:00 p.m.
15 NRC REPRESENTATIVES IN ATTENDANCE 16 BOB HAGAR 17 GERRI FEHST 18 MARK YOO 19 EMMANUEL SAYOC 20 NANCY MARTINEZ 21 DAVID WRONA 22 JOEY LEDFORD 23 GALEN SMITH 24 WESLEY DESCHAINE 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 CONTENTS 2 Welcome and Purpose of Meeting .................... 3 3 Overview of License Renewal 4 and Environmental Review Process ............. 9 5 Questions About Material Presented ............... 24 6 Public Comments ................................... 26 7 Closing ........................................... 65 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (2:00 p.m.)
3 MR. HAGAR: Good evening. My name is Bob 4 Hagar and I'm a Senior Project Engineer from the NRC 5 in the Region IV Office. And today I'm here to 6 facilitate this meeting with the help of my colleague 7 Gerri Fehst, who's sitting in the back there.
8 And our goal today is to help this meeting 9 run smoothly to ensure that everyone who has something 10 to say has an opportunity to say it and to be heard and 11 keep us on the schedule. And we're going to do our best 12 to help this meeting run smoothly and make it worthwhile 13 for everyone. And we hope that you will help us with 14 that.
15 Now most of you know that TVA has submitted 16 an application to the NRC for renewal of the operating 17 license for the Sequoyah Nuclear Plant for an additional 18 20 years. The NRC is reviewing that application and 19 will decide whether to renew the licenses. This meeting 20 is part of that review process.
21 The purposes of this meeting are to tell 22 you about the license renewal and environmental scoping 23 processes for that review and to get input from you about 24 the environmental issues that the NRC should consider 25 during that review. So this meeting is going to have NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 essentially three parts.
2 In the first part we'll hear a presentation 3 from the NRC staff about the license renewal and 4 Environmental Review processes. Information in that 5 presentation will help you understand what's involved 6 with the license renewal at Sequoyah. Copies of that 7 presentation were available on the table outside. And 8 if you want a hard copy and forgot to pick one up, just 9 let Gerri or I know and we'll make sure you get one.
10 Now during the second part of this meeting 11 we'll use 10 to 15 minutes to give you an opportunity 12 to ask questions about the material that was presented 13 and for the NRC staff to answer those questions. We'll 14 keep the presentations short and we hope those questions 15 from you so we can get to the main reason we're here 16 and that is to get input from you.
17 During that last part of the meeting, you 18 have an opportunity to say whatever you want to say about 19 the license renewal process. And when you signed in 20 today, you may have noted the yellow cards and the blue 21 cards that we asked you to fill out. The yellow cards 22 are for people who want to speak today, and the blue 23 cards are for people who just want to add their names 24 to our mailing list.
25 If you do speak today, we need to have your NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5 1 name on a card really for two reasons. One is we need 2 to have an accurate list of the speakers in this meeting, 3 and the second is we want to be sure and spell your name 4 correctly in the transcript of this meeting. Now if 5 you decide you want to speak and haven't filled out a 6 card yet, just let me know or me or Gerri know and we'll 7 give you a card and help you complete it.
8 Speaking of transcripts, we are recording 9 this meeting to make sure that we fully capture your 10 comments. And later on we're going to transcribe this 11 recording into a written document. And that document 12 will be an official record of this meeting. And we need 13 that document to be accurate. And you can help us 14 produce an accurate document in four ways.
15 First, if you're going to speak, please use 16 a microphone. We'll make a microphone available to you 17 and please speak into that microphone. And for the 18 microphone that you're using, you have to -- as you see 19 I'm doing, you have to stand pretty close to be able 20 to hold that microphone close to your mouth.
21 Also the first time you speak, please identify 22 who you are and what group or groups you represent.
23 And also if you have an uncommon name or a name that's 24 spelled in an unusual way, please also spell your name 25 again so that we can get your name accurately recorded NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 in the transcript.
2 The next to ensure that our recording is 3 clear, please don't hold side conversations and don't 4 interrupt the speakers. That's because if the 5 microphone picks up two people speaking at the same time, 6 from the recording, we can't tell what either one of 7 them said.
8 Finally, please silence your cell phones 9 and any other personal electronics you have with you.
10 I know that some of you have to stay in touch with people 11 outside this meeting. And so please do that if you need 12 to. But if you receive a call during the meeting, please 13 step outside to take that call so that the other meeting 14 participants can hear the proceedings and so that neither 15 your phone ringing nor your conversation will get 16 recorded.
17 I'll take just a minute to introduce the 18 NRC staff who are here today.
19 Emmanuel Sayoc is the Environmental Project 20 Manager for the license renewal process for Sequoyah.
21 Mark Yoo is the Safety Project Manager.
22 You guys might ought to stand up.
23 This is Manny on the right and Mark.
24 Nancy Martinez is a Technical Reviewer in 25 the Division of License Renewal.
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7 1 And Dave Wrona is a Branch Chief in a 2 Division of License Renewal. And Dave's branch is 3 responsible for completing the review of the Sequoyah 4 License Renewal Application.
5 Joey Ledford back at the back is a Public 6 Affairs Officer from the NRC Regional Office in Atlanta.
7 And Galen Smith is not here yet. He's a 8 Senior Resident.
9 But Wesley Deschaine is here. He's the 10 Resident Inspector for the NRC at Sequoyah.
11 Now the NRC staff is going to do their best 12 to answer any questions that you have about license 13 renewal or any other regulatory topic that you want to 14 discuss.
15 But please keep in mind that there are only 16 a few NRC staff members here today. And you may ask 17 a question that's outside their areas of expertise.
18 So the best person to answer those questions, your 19 question, may not be here today. If that's the case, 20 if the staff can't give you a good answer to your 21 question, they'll get back to you. They'll take your 22 name and go find the right person to give you that answer 23 and get back to you very soon.
24 One other item I'm hoping you picked upon 25 is the -- when you came in was our Public Meeting Feedback NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 1 form. You can fill this out today and hand it to any 2 staff member. Or you can take it with you and put it 3 in the mail because postage is free. And your assessment 4 of how today's meeting went is important to us. And 5 we'll use that information to improve future meetings.
6 So please take a moment to tell us what you think.
7 Finally, I hope everybody recognized or 8 noticed that the restrooms are immediately outside this 9 door. And if there's an emergency in this building, 10 we'll exit through those two rooms -- those two doors 11 and then step right outside. And security is provided 12 by the two officers that are standing at the back of 13 the room.
14 Is everyone okay with the ground rules that 15 I've kind of laid out? Any objection to that?
16 Okay, with that, I'll hand this meeting over 17 to Mark Yoo for the NRC presentation.
18 I'll be back when the presentation is done 19 to lead in to facilitate the question and answer period.
20 And remember if you have questions about the 21 presentation, please hold those questions until that 22 period and we'll get those asked and answered. And then 23 we'll move to the final part of the program.
24 Any questions about anything I've said?
25 Go ahead, Mark.
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9 1 MR. YOO: Good afternoon, my name is Mark 2 Yoo. I'm one of the Safety Project Managers within the 3 Division of License Renewal. I'm coordinating the 4 staff's review associated with the Sequoyah Nuclear 5 Plant Units 1 and 2 License Renewal Application.
6 Thank you all for taking the time to come 7 to this meeting.
8 Today we will provide an overview of the 9 license renewal review process which includes both a 10 Safety Review and an Environmental Review. We will 11 describe ways in which the public can participate in 12 the Sequoyah license renewal process. I'd like to 13 reiterate that the most important part of today's meeting 14 is to receive any comments that you may have on the scope 15 of the Environmental Review. We'll also give you some 16 information on how you can make comments if you prefer 17 not to speak at this meeting. I hope the information 18 we'll provide will help you to understand the license 19 renewal review process and the roles you all can have 20 in the process.
21 Before I get into the discussion of the 22 license renewal process, I'd like to take a minute to 23 talk about the NRC in terms of what we do and what our 24 mission is.
25 The NRC is a federal agency that regulates the civilian NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 1 use of nuclear material.
2 The Atomic Energy Act authorizes the NRC 3 to grant a 40-year operating license for nuclear power 4 reactors. I'd like to highlight that this 40-year term 5 was based primarily on economic consideration and 6 anti-trust factors, not on safety or technical 7 limitations. The Atomic Energy Act also allows for 8 license renewal.
9 The National Environmental Policy Act of 10 1969, or NEPA, established a national policy for 11 considering the impact of federal decision making on 12 the human environment. Emmanuel will discuss NEPA in 13 greater detail.
14 The NRC's mission is three-fold: To ensure 15 adequate protection of the public health and safety, 16 to promote the common defense and security, and to 17 protect the environment.
18 The NRC accomplishes its mission through 19 a combination of regulatory programs and processes such 20 as establishing rules and regulations, conducting 21 inspections, issuing enforcement actions, and assessing 22 licensee performance. We also evaluate operating 23 experience from nuclear plants across the country and 24 internationally as well.
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11 1 operating nuclear power plants. These Inspectors are 2 considered the eyes and ears of the NRC. They carry 3 out our safety mission on a daily basis and are on the 4 front lines of ensuring acceptable safety performance 5 and compliance with nuclear regulatory requirements.
6 I'd like to mention a few very important 7 areas of NRC oversight that routinely come up during 8 our interactions with members of the public. The NRC 9 staff addresses these areas of performance every day 10 as part of the ongoing regulatory oversight provided 11 for all currently operating power reactors. They 12 include current safety performance as defined by NRC 13 inspection findings, violations, and general 14 assessments of plant performance, emergency planning, 15 and security.
16 For specific information on current 17 performance of Sequoyah, a user link is provided on the 18 slide. This is also in your handout. The NRC monitors 19 and provides regulatory oversight of activities in these 20 areas on an ongoing basis under the current operating 21 license. Thus, we do not reevaluate them in license 22 renewal. That's not to say they're not important. We 23 just do not duplicate the regulatory process in these 24 areas for license renewal.
25 The NRC received Sequoyah's Application for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 License Renewal on January 15th, 2013, requesting an 2 additional 20 years of operation. The current operating 3 licenses for Sequoyah expire in 2020 and 2021.
4 Licensees can submit an Application for License Renewal 5 after it's operated for 20 years. The NRC has determined 6 that 20 years of operation provides enough information 7 for the staff to make an informed decision on license 8 renewal.
9 The first step of the license renewal 10 process is to perform an Acceptance and Sufficiency 11 Review of the application. The purpose of this review 12 is to determine if the applicant had provided the 13 required information. The required information 14 includes technical information about plant structures 15 and components and how the applicant proposes to manage 16 the aging of the structure's components, technical 17 specifications defining the operating parameters of the 18 plant. The application indicates if any changes or 19 additions to technical specifications are necessary to 20 manage the effects of aging during the period of extended 21 operation.
22 The application also includes an 23 Environmental Report, which is the applicant's 24 assessment of the environmental impacts of continued 25 operation.
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13 1 If the application has the required 2 information, then it is considered acceptable and it 3 is put on the NRC's formal docket. And the staff will 4 perform a full review. The NRC has accepted and docketed 5 the Sequoyah License Renewal Application by notice in 6 the Federal Register on March 5th, 2013.
7 This flow chart highlights that the license 8 renewal process involves two parallel reviews, the 9 Safety Review and the Environmental Review. These two 10 reviews evaluate separate aspects of the License Renewal 11 Application. It also features three other 12 considerations in the Commission's decision on whether 13 or not to renew an operating license.
14 One of these considerations is the 15 Independent Review performed by the Advisory Committee 16 on reactor safeguards commonly referred to by its acronym 17 ACRS. Statutorily mandated by the Atomic Energy Act 18 of 1954, the Advisory Committee is a group of scientists 19 and nuclear safety experts who serve as a consulting 20 body to the Commission. The Advisory Committee reviews 21 only the License Renewal Application, the NRC staff's 22 Safety Evaluation Report, and the inspection findings.
23 The Advisory Committee reports their findings and 24 recommendations directly to the Commission.
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14 1 also be conducted if interested stake holders submit 2 concerns or contentions and their request for a hearing 3 is granted. The Atomic Safety and Licensing Board, an 4 adjudicatory panel, will conduct the hearings. The 5 Commission considers the outcome of the hearing process 6 in its decision on whether or not to issue a renewed 7 operating license.
8 As part of the Environmental Review, the 9 staff consults with local, state, federal, and tribal 10 officials, such as the Environmental Protection Agency.
11 And the staff holds public meetings to receive comments 12 on the Draft Environmental Impact Statement.
13 Now I'm going to describe the license 14 renewal review processes in a little more detail, 15 starting with the Safety Review. To better understand 16 the license renewal process, it's good to know the safety 17 principles that guide license renewal.
18 The first principle is that the current 19 regulatory process is adequate to ensure that the 20 licensing basis of all operating plants provides and 21 maintains an acceptable level of safety with the 22 exception of detrimental effects of aging.
23 The second principle is that the current 24 plant's specific licensing basis must be maintained 25 during the renewal term in the same manner and to the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 same extent as during the original licensing term. In 2 other words, the same rules that apply under the current 3 license will apply in the renewal term. In addition, 4 a renewed license will include conditions that must be 5 met to ensure aging of structures and components 6 important to safety is adequately managed so that the 7 plant's current licensing basis is maintained during 8 the period of extended operation.
9 The Safety Review focuses on the aging of 10 passive and long-lived structures and components and 11 systems that the NRC deems important to plant safety.
12 We consider safety related systems, structures, and 13 components, for example, reactor containment.
14 Non-safety related systems, structures, and components 15 which if they fail could affect safety related systems, 16 structures, component functions. For example, a piece 17 of equipment directly above a safety related component 18 and system structure components relied upon for 19 compliance with regulations for fire protection, 20 environmental qualification, pressurized thermal shock, 21 anticipated transients without scram, and station 22 blackout.
23 The staff's main objective in this review 24 is to determine if the effects of aging will be adequately 25 managed by the applicant. The results of the Safety NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 1 Review are documented in a Safety Evaluation Report, 2 or SER.
3 Now that you know what is subject to review, 4 I will talk about how the NRC looks at all the 5 information. The Safety Review comprises of numerous 6 rigorous aspects. The technical staff reviews the 7 applicant's License Renewal Application and supporting 8 documentation to determine the applicant's methodology 9 to identify the systems, structures, and components 10 within the scope of license renewal that's subject to 11 an aging management review to determine if the 12 methodology has been properly implemented and to 13 determine with reasonable assurance if the effects of 14 aging for certain systems, structures, and components 15 will be adequately managed or monitored by new or 16 existing programs and surveillance activities.
17 The staff uses site audits to verify the 18 technical basis of the License Renewal Application and 19 to confirm that the applicant's Aging Management 20 Programs and activities conform with how they're 21 described in the application. The staff documents the 22 basis and conclusions of its review in a Safety 23 Evaluation Report, which is publicly available. In 24 addition, a team of specialized inspectors travel to 25 the reactor site to verify that Aging Management Programs NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 1 are being implemented, modified, or planned consistent 2 with the License Renewal Application.
3 Finally as I have mentioned, the Advisory 4 Committee on Reactor Safeguards performs in an 5 independent review of the License Renewal Application, 6 the staff's Safety Evaluation Report, and inspection 7 findings and makes a recommendation to the Commission 8 regarding the proposed action to issue a renewed 9 operating license.
10 This slide shows important milestones for 11 the Safety Review process. It is important to note that 12 these dates are tentative. Schedule changes may result 13 from a host of reasons. If significant issues are 14 identified, the license renewal review may be suspended 15 indefinitely or terminated.
16 That concludes a description of the Safety 17 Review. The Environmental Review will be discussed by 18 the Environmental Project Manager, Emmanuel Sayoc.
19 MR. SAYOC: Thank you, Mark. Good 20 afternoon, everybody. My name is Emmanuel Sayoc and 21 I'll be focusing on the environmental portion of this 22 presentation.
23 The review is performed in accordance with 24 the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969, commonly 25 referred to as NEPA. NEPA established a national policy NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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18 1 for considering environmental impacts and provides the 2 basic architecture for federal Environmental Reviews.
3 All federal agencies must follow a systematic approach 4 in evaluating potential impacts and also to assess 5 alternatives to those actions. The NEPA process 6 involves public participation and public disclosure.
7 The NRC's environmental regulations implementing the 8 requirements of NEPA are contained in 10 Code of Federal 9 Regulations, Part 51.
10 Our Environmental Review considers the 11 impact of license renewal and any mitigation for those 12 impacts considered significant. We also consider the 13 impacts of alternatives to license renewal, including 14 the impacts of not issuing the renewed license. We 15 document our review in an Environmental Impact 16 Statement, which will be made publicly available.
17 Ultimately the purpose of the Environmental 18 Review is to determine whether the environmental impacts 19 of license renewal are reasonable and in combination 20 with other reviews to make sure a recommendation to the 21 Commission on whether or not to renew the license or 22 not.
23 For a license renewal review the NRC 24 environmental staff looks at a wide range of potential 25 impacts. Additionally, we consult with various NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 1 federal, state, and local officials, as well as leaders 2 of Indian nations. Examples include the U.S. Fish and 3 Wildlife Service, Environmental Protection Agency, the 4 Tennessee Department of Environmental Quality, 5 Tennessee State Historic Preservation Offices, as well 6 as tribal nations that have historic ties to the area 7 around the plant and neighboring states. We gather 8 pertinent information from these sources that ensure 9 it is considered within our analysis.
10 The Environmental Review begins with a 11 scoping process which is an assessment of the specific 12 impacts and significant issues that the staff should 13 consider in preparing the Sequoyah Environmental Impact 14 Statement. Currently this is where we are in the 15 process. Information that will be gathered from you 16 today and in the next few weeks will be considered and 17 included in an Environmental Impact Statement.
18 We recognize that some impacts are similar, 19 if not identical, at all nuclear power plants. So to 20 improve the efficiency, we have developed a Generic 21 Environmental Impact Statement that addresses a number 22 of impacts common to all nuclear power plants. The staff 23 supplements that Generic Environmental Impact Statement 24 with a Site Specific Environmental Impact Statement in 25 which we address issues that are specific to Sequoyah.
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20 1 The staff also reexamines the conclusions reached in 2 a Generic Environmental Impact Statement to determine 3 if there are any new and significant information that 4 would change those conclusions.
5 The scoping period started on March 8th, 6 2013 with a Notice of Intent to prepare an Environmental 7 Impact Statement and conduct scoping and was published 8 in the Federal Register. The NRC will accept comments 9 on the scope of the Environmental Review until May 3, 10 2013.
11 In general we are looking for information 12 about the environmental impacts from the continued 13 operation of Sequoyah. You can assist in this process 14 by telling us, for example, what aspects of your local 15 community we should focus on, what local environmental, 16 social, and economic issues the NRC should examine during 17 our review and what other major projects are in progress 18 or planned in the area, and finally what reasonable 19 alternatives are most appropriate to this region. These 20 are just some of the examples of the input we seek through 21 the environmental scoping process.
22 We don't know your community like you do, 23 so your comments here today will help us ensure a thorough 24 review. Public comments are an important part of the 25 Environmental Review process.
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21 1 So how do we use your comments? All of your 2 comments to us, whether provided verbally during this 3 meeting or in a written letter or fax or email, are 4 considered and addressed. We respond to each comment 5 as part of the Environmental Impact Statement. The 6 Environmental Impact Statement is one of the factors, 7 as well as the several others shown here, that influence 8 the Commission's decision to renew the license or not.
9 10 In addition to providing verbal and written 11 comments at this meeting, there are other ways you can 12 submit comments. You can submit comments online using 13 the Federal Rulemaking Website at the regulation.gov 14 website. Enter the key word NRC-2013-0037. This will 15 give you a list of Federal Register notices. The top 16 one says License Renewal Application for Sequoyah 17 Nuclear Power Plant Units 1 and 2, Tennessee Valley 18 Authority. There is an icon on the right hand side to 19 submit a comment. If you have problems, please give 20 me a call and I'll direct you to the appropriate contact 21 to walk you through this Regulations website.
22 You can fax your comments to the number 23 above. Please reference Sequoyah License Renewal on 24 your fax.
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22 1 to remove any identifying or contact information, so 2 do not include any information in the comments that you 3 don't want to be publicly disclosed. As I 4 mentioned, the deadline for comments is May 3, 2013.
5 You can provide written comments by mail to the Chief 6 of our Rules, Announcements, and Directives Branch at 7 the address provided on the slide. And finally if you 8 happen to be in the D.C. area, you can provide them 9 written comments in person during our business hours.
10 11 This slide shows important milestones for 12 the Environmental Review process. As Mark said, these 13 dates are subject to change based on the progress of 14 the review. The opportunity to submit contentions for 15 a hearing closes on May 6, 2013. And the opportunity 16 to submit comments for the Environmental Scoping process 17 closes on May 3, 2013.
18 Please note that a Draft Supplemental 19 Environmental Impact Statement is scheduled to be issued 20 for public comment on February of 2014 with an associated 21 public meeting to receive your comments on this 22 preliminary document.
23 Hard copies of the License Renewal 24 Application and Environmental Report may be found at 25 the library shown on this slide. The Draft Supplemental NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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23 1 Environmental Impact Statement will also be available 2 at this library when it is published for comment. These 3 documents will also be on the NRC's website at the website 4 address shown at the bottom of this slide.
5 As you came in, you were asked to fill out 6 a registration card at our reception table. If you've 7 included your address on the card, we will mail a CD 8 copy of the draft and final EIS to you.
9 Mark and I are the primary contacts for the 10 NRC license renewal process for Sequoyah. Our contact 11 information is provided on this slide and also on your 12 handouts.
13 This concludes my presentation and I'll 14 turn it over to Bob.
15 MR. HAGAR: All right, this is the part of 16 the meeting where, if you have questions about what was 17 presented, this is the time to ask them and the NRC staff 18 will answer them. And if you would step up here, I will 19 hand you the mike and then we'll decide -- wait a minute, 20 let me turn on this other mike. And based on your 21 question, we'll decide who should answer them.
22 MR. SAFER: I'm Don Safer. I'm from 23 Nashville with Tennessee Environmental Council, 24 Tennessee Chapter of the Sierra Club, and the Bellefonte 25 Efficiency and Sustainability Team. I just have a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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24 1 simple question. On Slide No. 8, you said -- and I'm 2 sorry, I didn't catch it. But you said you don't repeat 3 looking at something. And I didn't catch what it is 4 that you don't look at again. I just wanted to make 5 sure I understood what that was. Thank you.
6 MR. HAGAR: Mark, you want to take that?
7 MR. YOO: On Slide 8, the NRC monitors and 8 provides regulatory oversight of activities. We do not 9 in an ongoing basis -- sorry. The NRC monitors and 10 provides regulatory oversight of activities on an 11 ongoing basis under the current operating license.
12 Thus, we do not reevaluate them in license renewal.
13 The areas are the -- addresses these areas 14 that perform every day. Sorry, I'm trying to -- it's 15 current safety performance as defined by NRC inspection 16 findings, violations, and general assessments of plant 17 performance, emergency planning, and security. Those 18 are the items. Those are reviewed on an ongoing basis 19 and we don't reevaluate them as part of license renewal.
20 MR. HAGAR: Did that answer your question?
21 Okay.
22 Any other questions about the material that 23 was presented?
24 Okay, step up.
25 MS. JOHNSTON: My name is Gretel Johnston.
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25 1 And it was in the license renewal process, you had a 2 chart there and you said it's reviewed by ACRS. Excuse 3 my ignorance, but I don't know what that acronym is for.
4 MR. SAYOC: Oh the ACRS is the Advisory 5 Committee on Reactor Safeguards. They're a team of 6 independent scientists, nuclear experts in the field, 7 national labs. And they come in and they review our 8 Safety Evaluation Report. That's who we present our 9 Safety Evaluation to. So they are independent of the 10 staff and it's their recommendation straight to our 11 Commission.
12 MS. JOHNSTON: Independent of the NRC or 13 independent of the industry?
14 MR. SAYOC: Both. They are nuclear 15 experts. They are scientists. They are professors 16 that are independent of --
17 MS. JOHNSTON: I see.
18 MR. SAYOC: -- the industry and our staff.
19 MS. JOHNSTON: Okay, thank you.
20 MR. HAGAR: Any other questions about the 21 material?
22 All right, then we'll move to the third part 23 of our meeting. And again this is the point, the part 24 of the meeting where we want input from you on topics 25 that the NRC should consider. I have yellow cards here NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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26 1 from five speakers.
2 And if you want to speak and have not filled 3 out a card, please raise your hand. Okay, I don't see 4 any hands.
5 So the first speaker will be Sandy Kurtz.
6 Did I say that right? Okay.
7 And the speaker after that will be Hardie 8 Stulce. Is that right? Okay.
9 Then, Sandy and Hardie -- and we're going 10 to ask that you limit your comments to five minutes to 11 start until we've gotten through everyone. And if 12 there's time left, we'll give you additional time after 13 the last speaker.
14 So, Sandy, go ahead.
15 And again we want you to say your name and 16 what organization you represent. And if your name is 17 unusual or spelled in kind of an unusual way, please 18 spell it. Thank you.
19 MS. KURTZ: Am I close enough? Okay. I 20 am Sandy Kurtz; it's K-u-r-t-z. And I am an 21 environmental education consultant, but I'm here as a 22 volunteer for Bellefonte Efficiency and Sustainability 23 Team and Mothers Against Tennessee River Radiation.
24 And we are chapters of the Blue Ridge Environmental 25 Defense League. And I serve on that board as well.
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27 1 We have a long, long list of concerns and 2 reasons why we think that this should not -- the 3 relicensing should not happen. And so we certainly want 4 these to be reviewed and considered during this 5 Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement review, the 6 scoping session here.
7 The original Environmental Impact 8 Statement was done when the plant was first opened back 9 in the 1980s and it seems like it's time to really start 10 from scratch, not just say that there's been no 11 significant environmental impact at this point because 12 it's operating for all this time and, gosh, we haven't 13 really had an accident yet. So we can just, we can just 14 rely on that same Environmental Impact Statement and 15 we can say that it's going to be the same way for the 16 next 20 years, 20 years starting in 2020, because that's 17 when the first license expires. I know there was one 18 extension in between.
19 So it's questionable to think that there's 20 going to be no significant environmental impact in the 21 future just because -- and I don't think it's even 22 reasonable to say there's been no significant 23 environmental impacts in the past 32 years. But still 24 that's what NRC is saying. So I think that we need to 25 really begin from scratch again on that.
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28 1 Aging is a real issue here. We have an old, 2 old, old, old plant. It's been operating with poor 3 technology, outdated technology. Now the ice condenser 4 design, which you all know is a bunch of ice baskets 5 to cool off -- in case of an accident it's going to cool 6 off the containment building of the reactor itself.
7 And that's old.
8 And furthermore, there's also -- there's 9 always concrete decay. There's pipes that have broken 10 that are leaking. And I know TVA will say, well, we've 11 been replacing these parts. And I know they just put 12 in the new steam generator. But there are parts you 13 can't get to. They are buried; they're buried in 14 concrete. You don't know when they're going to leak.
15 You don't know what's happening.
16 And they are -- they're aging. And I think 17 that's a very big concern to think that we are going 18 to give a license to continue on for 20 years without 19 worrying a lot about that aging situation.
20 There's concern over flooding. In the 21 light of lessons learned from Fukushima and the fact 22 that TVA has discovered with their own calculations that 23 they are well -- they're too low. They need to put in 24 flood protection in case the earthen dams upstream give 25 way. And that certainly is an analysis that has to be NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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29 1 done to assess the risk to a growing urban population.
2 When Sequoyah was first built, it was pretty rural out 3 here and now it isn't. And so we have a growing 4 population.
5 And I think we need to assess the risk should 6 those dams upstream break or an earthquake occurs.
7 Because we now also find out that we live in a possibly 8 seismically active area. We had the Knoxville 9 earthquake recently in and around Knoxville. And just 10 was today a lady here was telling me we have a little 11 small earthquake here in this area just today.
12 So if -- I think we need to figure out if 13 the design for Sequoyah is strong enough to withstand 14 a heavy earthquake. And I understand that magnitude 15 5 would be a good number to shoot for for protecting.
16 It's also I'm especially concerned about 17 water use. And we have climate disruption -- more 18 storms, more problems that way. And we also have growing 19 industry, business people that use the water in addition 20 to the drinking water, most of which comes from the 21 Tennessee River for Chattanooga.
22 And a nuclear plant uses seven -- if it's 23 a 1,000 megawatt and Sequoyah is a little bigger û seven 24 thousand fourteen hundred -- 714,740 gallons per minute.
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30 1 of which does not go back into the river after it's used 2 to cool. The rest of it is hot and so we worry about 3 the fish and the aquatic community there in that whole 4 ecosystem.
5 Thank you.
6 MR. HAGAR: Sandra, do you have more to say?
7 MS. KURTZ: Yes.
8 MR. HAGAR: Then I'll add your name to the 9 last of the list and you'll have another opportunity.
10 The next speaker will be Hardie Stulce.
11 Did I say that right?
12 MR. STULCE: Stulce.
13 MR. HAGAR: And the speaker after that will 14 be Don Safer.
15 MR. STULCE: My name is Hardie Stulce, 16 S-t-u-l-c-e. Employed by the city of Soddy-Daisy at 17 present. I have been associated with the city either 18 through the volunteer fire department since 1972 till 19 the present. Have served on the City Council for four 20 years, two years of which I was Mayor. The comments 21 that I'm going to make are qualified to the point of 22 from direct experience.
23 Sequoyah Nuclear Plant -- and this is 24 unsolicited by anybody there. And I have a number of 25 friends that work there as you would expect in any small NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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31 1 community. Our town and this region has benefitted from 2 this facility, not only from a financial standpoint as 3 to a standard of living that it provides for the people 4 who reside here.
5 But as far as the valley as a whole or the 6 Southeastern United States has directly benefitted from 7 all of the endeavors of the Tennessee Valley Authority 8 since the 1930s. And to that case in point, there are 9 dams that were built in the 30s that still don't have 10 any problems today.
11 Everything at Sequoyah Nuclear Plant that 12 I have been affiliated with as either a representative 13 of the city as a fire fighter or through city government 14 has been totally open, totally above board. There've 15 never been any secrets. I was in the facility during 16 its construction, flew over it in the late 60s when 17 they were digging the holes out in the rock underneath 18 the ground cover. It's a magnificent facility.
19 I have no concerns as far as the type of 20 neighbor that Sequoyah Nuclear Plant has always been 21 as far as safety. Yes, in any industry that is fairly 22 new and the nuclear industry starting in the 50s, yes, 23 it's an old design. It's a well-proven design. I think 24 I'm correct if I say that Sequoyah has broken the majority 25 of the records in the United States for sustained power NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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32 1 production and efficiency. Even though it is a branch 2 of the federal government to that extent which is often 3 identified with waste, it leads the industry in the 4 reliability and sustainability of the power that it 5 produces.
6 And I would like to go on record not only 7 as a citizen of this area, a lifelong resident, but I 8 speak, I think, for the entire City Council and the vast 9 majority of residents who reside in this area who would 10 be affected in a negative aspect were there a problem 11 there. We trust TVA. We trust their decisions and the 12 fact that they have always kept us in the loop in any 13 situation, whether it be good or bad. And that we 14 wholeheartedly support their request for a license 15 extension of the plant.
16 Thank you.
17 MR. HAGAR: Thank you Hardie.
18 The next speaker is Don Safer. And after 19 that we'll have Kathleen Farris.
20 MR. SAFER: Thank you. I've already 21 introduced myself, but I'm Don Safer from Nashville with 22 the Tennessee Environmental Council and State Sierra 23 Club. I want to raise specific issues in the first five 24 minutes and I will want to speak again. Thank you.
25 The plant safety and security in the TVA NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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33 1 document that was sent out back in 2010 says that, "Severe 2 accidents are defined as accidents with substantial 3 damage to the reactor core and degradation of containment 4 systems. Because the probability of a severe accident 5 is very low, the NRC considers them too unlikely to 6 warrant normal design controls to prevent or mitigate 7 the consequences. Severe accident analyses consider 8 both the risk for the severe accident and the offsite 9 consequences."
10 What that means is that they just dismiss 11 out of hand the possibility of a severe accident and 12 don't consider it at all in the Environmental Impact 13 Statement.
14 Now at Fukushima two years ago, they had 15 a severe accident. It was an accident that -- and I 16 was around the first time this plant was licensed. And 17 we were promised that it wasn't possible to have that 18 type of accident; that it was just impossible. And that 19 was the words that were used on many occasions when those 20 questions were raised.
21 Now at Fukushima 160,000 people have been 22 permanently evacuated from their homes. The cost is 23 going to be anywhere from fifty -- I've seen figures 24 as high as 500 billion dollars of economic cost to Japan.
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34 1 miles of land that is permanently contaminated for human 2 use evacuated -- farms, homes, businesses. So 3 that's the kind of thing that a severe accident actually 4 has done two years ago. And that accident is ongoing.
5 They've still not got it under control. And there are 6 serious issues with the fuel that's -- the irradiated 7 fuel that's in the fuel pools there.
8 And we have a lot of irradiated fuel at 9 Sequoyah. Every single bit of it that's been there since 10 the -- that's been made there is still there, much of 11 it in fuel pools.
12 At Chernobyl 200,000 people were evacuated 13 and the amount of deaths are anywhere from 4,000 to a 14 million, depending on who you ask. And the million is 15 actually quite well documented by Ukrainian doctors.
16 The tremendous -- the people, I'm sorry, that are the 17 most likely to know. They evacuated permanently a 18 19-mile circle with Chernobyl in the center.
19 So just imagine. Take a 19-mile circle 20 from Sequoyah and that's what's possible in the event 21 of a severe accident. And that is not even being 22 considered in this process. And I ask the NRC in going 23 through this in a post-Fukushima time to take that into 24 account in the decision to relicense or not.
25 How much time do I have?
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35 1 MR. HAGAR: You have five minutes now.
2 MR. SAFER: The other issue I think that 3 is important that I'll get into right now -- if I can 4 find my note -- is this issue about the life expectancy.
5 I have an AP article that was just written in the last 6 year. I remember when these -- as I said, these plants 7 were first licensed. They said 40 years was it. The 8 engineers that designed these things designed them for 9 40 years. Adding another 20 years is really suspect.
10 And it's largely an economic decision. So this article 11 says they're rewriting history saying that these things 12 can go easily another 20 years. The metal imbrittlement 13 is a question.
14 Just the design, I think later I'll get into 15 the design of the ice condenser units which are 16 remarkable except they're really wacky. I mean you've 17 got a lot of ice in there. But the ice condenser design 18 just briefly was identified after Three Mile Island as 19 being the most likely of all the United States reactors 20 for the containment to fail in a serious accident in 21 a loss of -- a coolant water accident where the fuel 22 rods are exposed. You get hydrogen buildup. They had 23 to go back and retrofit hydrogen igniters.
24 But this design was done in the 60s.
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36 1 if you count Watts Bar 2. There's a reason why they're 2 less than 10 percent of the United States reactor fleet 3 and why not a single new one has been built. TVA did 4 finish the ones at Watts Bar that they had started.
5 But thank you. And for the record, I don't 6 see why we can't go on a little longer first. But thank 7 you. And I'd like to speak again.
8 MR. HAGAR: Understand, Don, you want 9 another opportunity. So you'll have that.
10 Kathleen Ferris. And then following 11 Kathleen will be Gretel Johnson.
12 MS. FERRIS: Good afternoon. My name is 13 Kathleen Ferris. I'm from Murfreesboro, Tennessee.
14 Cofounder of the organization called Citizens to End 15 Nuclear Dumping in Tennessee. I am speaking today 16 primarily, however, as a mother and a grandmother.
17 I gather that most of the people that I'm 18 speaking to here who are scientists are in the field 19 of physics or chemistry. And what I would like to ask 20 you to do today is to consider these issues in terms 21 of the biological perspective as opposed to the more -- I 22 don't know what the word would be for that. But the 23 other branches of science.
24 For many decades we have been warned by 25 physicians and public health officials, people like NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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37 1 Helen Caldecott and Dr. John Gofman and Rosalie Bertell 2 have told us the dangers of ionizing radiation to human 3 health. We have been told that it damages DNA and causes 4 mutations and that it is carcinogenic and especially 5 to children. Now there's no debating the issue that 6 nuclear reactors do emit radiation. There are routine 7 emissions; there are spills; there are accidents, some 8 more serious than others.
9 However, TVA and the NRC, I have yet to see 10 a report that does not say, "No risk to the public,"
11 after one of these things occurs. These reactors 12 pollute the environment, the water, the air. The rain 13 rains down radionuclides onto the grass, gets into our 14 plants, into our food chain.
15 There are many studies that have been done 16 mostly abroad that show that people, especially 17 children, who live near nuclear reactors have a higher 18 incidence of cancer than the national averages or than 19 people who live at a greater distance. Back in the 1980s 20 there was one by at Sellafield in England that found 21 clusters of leukemia and cancer. In Germany around the 22 year 2010 was a government sponsored study that showed 23 that the reactors tested there was almost double the 24 rate of leukemia -- well, over double the rate of leukemia 25 and double the amount of other cancers in children.
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38 1 Another study at Chepstow, Wales, a very recent one, 2 shows that three and a half times the risk of cancer 3 to children than the national average.
4 Now just this past week another study came 5 out from Sacramento. It was done at Sacramento County, 6 California, where there are approximately 1.4 million 7 people living. Rancho Seco is a reactor that has been 8 closed for 23, over 23 years. This study shows -- by 9 going through all the cancer records of the state of 10 California, they have shown that there is a drop of cancer 11 incidents in the 20 years since the closing. A very 12 precise number, 4,319 fewer cases over that 20 year 13 period. And many of these are women, Hispanics, and 14 children. Again children are some of the worst victims 15 of radiation poisoning.
16 National Academy of Sciences is currently 17 carrying on a study of reactors in this country to see 18 whether the cancer incidence is indeed higher or not.
19 The NRC is sponsoring that study and it's not yet 20 completed. Yet the NRC is going ahead with relicensing 21 before knowing all the facts regarding human health in 22 the vicinity of these plants.
23 Now Hamilton County contains 134,000 24 people. I'm sure there are many, many more; I'm not 25 sure of the exact number within a 50-mile radius. I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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39 1 urge you not to put these people at further risk by 2 approving a plant that's already -- reapproving, 3 relicensing a plant that's 40 years old that has a poor 4 record of operations with repeated scrams and that has 5 a design that has been called faulty, maybe not by the 6 NRC or local people.
7 We have all seen the horrors of somebody 8 dying of cancer. I know I have. And it's even much 9 worse if it happens to be a child. And I ask you, please, 10 to focus on not just -- our society needs to focus not 11 just on cures for cancer but on prevention of cancer.
12 And this is one way that you can help do it.
13 Thank you.
14 MR. HAGAR: Thank you, Kathleen.
15 Gretel.
16 And after that, Sandy Kurtz, you'll have 17 another opportunity.
18 MS. JOHNSTON: I'd like to this into the 19 record. This is my comments and supporting documents.
20 MR. HAGAR: I understand you want this into 21 the record.
22 MS. JOHNSTON: Yes, sir.
23 MR. HAGAR: I'll turn it over to Dave. I'm 24 sure he'll make that happen.
25 MS. JOHNSTON: Okay, thank you.
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40 1 Hi, my name is Gretel Johnston. That's 2 G-r-e-t-e-l. And I'm with a group called Mothers 3 Against Tennessee River Radiation and we're part of 4 Bellefonte Efficiency and Sustainability Team and the 5 Blue Ridge Environmental Defense League.
6 I come here today, first of all, I'd like 7 to challenge a basic assumption that's in this 8 Environmental Report. And that is that the only 9 alternative to extending this license is either to do 10 nothing and decommission, which I would recommend, or 11 to -- the other option is called, in your own words, 12 as the "reasonable alternative energy sources" as an 13 option. But the only options that are given in this 14 study are nuclear and gas powered power plants.
15 And many, many studies -- and I've included 16 them in the literature -- have addressed the issue of 17 how to replace -- as we retire coal plants and nuclear 18 plants, how we replace dirty energy with clean energy.
19 And the first and foremost choice that we advocate is 20 energy efficiency.
21 Energy efficiency cannot only replace all 22 the power that's being generated by Sequoyah at this 23 time and quickly. It does not come on line slowly; it 24 comes on line quickly and creates a lot of jobs and it's 25 less expensive by far than nuclear. But it also will NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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41 1 improve the homes of the people of the Tennessee Valley.
2 It will improve your lives by giving you smaller 3 electric bills every month and as well as creating jobs 4 and not fouling our nest and putting dangerous 5 radioactive poisons into our ecosystem or fossil fuels 6 either.
7 So our first line we recommend is that this 8 basic assumption that the only alternatives are dirty 9 fuels being looked at carefully and examined and that 10 that assumption be renegotiated for the power plant.
11 That, if in fact another option is taken, that that could 12 be renewable energy or the first line we would recommend 13 is energy efficiency.
14 In a study by Georgia Tech and Duke 15 University a couple of years ago asserted that energy 16 efficiency programs in one decade in the South alone 17 could create 380,000 new jobs. That's between 2010 and 18 2020, 380,000 new jobs. It would lower electricity 19 bills by 41 billion dollars. And all while eliminating 20 the need for new power plants for two decades and saving 21 8.6 billion gallons of fresh water. Now that's a major 22 environmental concern. And if this truly is an 23 environmental study, I think that this has to be taken 24 into consideration and considered as a viable modern 25 alternative.
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42 1 As David Freeman says about the nuclear 2 technology and TVA, he says, "TVA is building yesterday's 3 technology tomorrow." And I have to agree 4 wholeheartedly with him on that. And I want to see us 5 looking towards the future and especially the future 6 of our children and grandchildren by providing them with 7 a clean and healthy environment to live and grow in.
8 And allowing radionuclides into our 9 environment not only affects the food chain, but it 10 affects our very DNA. It changes the structure of our 11 genetic makeup. That's a long range issue, you know, 12 just one of these radionuclides -- the power plant 13 creates 200. When the uranium goes in, it creates 200 14 poisons that don't exist in nature.
15 Our body doesn't know what to do with them, 16 so they try and find the things that they most closely 17 resemble, whether it be iodine or potassium or calcium.
18 It tries to find that and it takes it up that way in 19 the bones, in the thyroid, and different parts of the 20 body. That's what it does with these radionuclides.
21 And they last for a very long time; some 22 of them are short lived. But we're talking about 200.
23 And some of them are extremely long lived.
24 What is it? The iodine 129 lasts 25 for -- what is it, 570,000,000 years is the half life?
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43 1 That's 570,000,000 years, you know, that it's 2 dangerous. We can't even begin to absorb what that 3 means. But it's just not fair to the future of our 4 planet, to future generations, to living beings to impose 5 this upon them.
6 So we call first of all for energy 7 efficiency.
8 Thank you.
9 MR. HAGAR: Well, at this point all of the 10 speakers who signed up to speak have had the opportunity 11 to speak and so now we'll give the speakers who wanted 12 to say more a second opportunity.
13 And, Sandy, Kurtz, you were the first.
14 And if it's all right with everybody for 15 the second go around, we'll expand the time available 16 to 10 minutes per speaker. And perhaps that will give 17 the speakers an opportunity to finish.
18 Is that okay with you?
19 MS. KURTZ: Sure.
20 MR. HAGAR: Okay, 10 minutes.
21 MS. KURTZ: Where was I? I was talking to 22 you earlier about the water usage and how much water 23 comes out of the river, every minute, 714,740 gallons 24 per minute when the plant is operating. And two thirds 25 of that goes up into the air through the cooling towers NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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44 1 that we're all so familiar with.
2 And the rest goes back into the river and 3 is hot. There are regulations about how hot it can be, 4 but it is hot and it goes back into the river and affects 5 the fish. Although as I've been told, fish can swim 6 around the hot parts. But there are other macro 7 invertebrates and small critters in the water that are 8 called the drift community and they cannot swim around.
9 They are subject to whatever they run into. So that's 10 a problem.
11 And in fact, it's water that's going to be 12 the constraining resource in the future. We cannot have 13 nuclear plants using all that water that could be used 14 for other uses. And it's just evaporating into the air 15 for the most and that is -- that also causes climate 16 change, climate disruptions as well. So I think we need 17 to -- I think that we are going to have continued drought 18 conditions in between storms if the predictions are 19 correct about that.
20 And we are also going to have hotter water 21 and that has caused some shutdowns of nuclear plants 22 already here in the Tennessee Valley. I know that 23 Sequoyah and Watts Bar have both shut down because the 24 water in the river was too hot to take the hot water 25 that the nuclear plants were putting into it. So those NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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45 1 shut-downs that are caused by climate should be a 2 significant environmental impact and should be 3 considered as one of the possible things to analyze as 4 to how that's going to work.
5 Further shut-downs -- every time there's 6 a shut-down, that is really, really expensive. That 7 costs a lot for TVA to be operating shut-down and they 8 have planned shut-downs. But every time there's a 9 scram -- that's an emergency shut-down. And by the way, 10 Sequoyah has been cited by NRC for having too many of 11 these emergency shut-downs in a year. I think that 12 happened last year. So that is a problem.
13 The other thing that I wanted to talk about 14 a little bit was the extension of the license.
15 Apparently TVA -- well, I know TVA has already entered 16 into an agreement with the Department of Energy to 17 produce tritium until 2035. And tritium is a 18 radioactive form of hydrogen that becomes a radioactive 19 form of water. If it's ingested, inhaled, or absorbed 20 through the skin, tritium can permeate living cells and 21 cause damage at the cellular level.
22 So in both 2003 and in 2011, tritium was 23 found in the ground water at Sequoyah. It's also leaking 24 from the Watts Bar 1, where they're making it, cause 25 the -- absorbed with the rod cladding. It's being NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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46 1 absorbed into the rod cladding and then it's leaking 2 into the river. So since we get our drinking water 3 primarily from the Tennessee downstream from Watts Bar 4 and Sequoyah, we've been exposed to that for these now, 5 these, what will be 40 years when the license expires.
6 7 And I don't think we need another 20 years 8 of that just so the Department of Energy can have tritium 9 made in a commercial -- supposedly a commercial nuclear 10 plant. And they're using it for military use because, 11 as you all know surely, tritium is used to boost military 12 bombs, making of bombs. And it's used for that purpose 13 and so the Department of Energy wants those. But I don't 14 think we should be supporting the making of bombs while 15 we're poisoning our water.
16 The other issue, too, is about radioactive 17 mixed oxide fuel. That's another thing the Department 18 of Energy wants TVA to be using here. It's experimental 19 in commercial nuclear plants, never been used in the 20 United States in a commercial nuclear plant and Sequoyah 21 is not designed for it. So to say that TVA -- TVA to 22 agree to that, to using that mixed oxide fuel that's 23 so radioactive, more so than plain old uranium, I don't 24 think we should think about that. And that too, of 25 course, would be a significant environmental impact if NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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47 1 that leaks, gets loose, or we have an accident.
2 Spent fuel storage, you know, spent fuel 3 is radioactive fuel that uranium that has been used in 4 the reactor and then it becomes actually more radioactive 5 and it is taken out of the reactor and put into this 6 fuel pool. And the rods that where the uranium fuel 7 is -- this is highly radioactive rods -- are put into 8 the fuel pool. And what's happening is it's getting 9 more and more crowded because they don't know what to 10 do with the waste.
11 Where shall we put the radioactive waste 12 since there's no place to ship it to? There's no setup 13 for that. And besides why have two places that are 14 radioactive when you can just leave it on site here at 15 Sequoyah? But how much more should we be making? So 16 the crowding of the rods is a problem.
17 And when they take the rod density, there's 18 more opportunity for accidents when the rods are so much 19 closer together and fission can happen. So where do 20 we put it? These are the things that I think that the 21 scoping should include. Where are we going to put those 22 rods and keep the crowding smaller? And is 23 the Watts Bar radioactive waste also going to be 24 supported to Sequoyah, which has -- I think is true.
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48 1 storage building been put in place and is it secure 2 enough?
3 Further, are there plans to put things into 4 hardened cask storage so that they are safer than they 5 are in the fuel pool?
6 I know that Gretel had just spoken about 7 the decommissioning plans and the fact that there are 8 only two alternatives mentioned, both of which either 9 say decommission -- and we would recommend that -- or 10 and build a new -- but the alternative also says if you 11 want a new 40-year licensed nuclear plant. But you can't 12 do it on the Sequoyah nuclear site. It's already 13 poisoned actually. So that doesn't sound like a good 14 plan. We wouldn't recommend any more nuclear plants.
15 16 The other is the gas fired generators to 17 replace Sequoyah Nuclear Plant, but again not on the 18 Sequoyah Nuclear Plant site because it's sort of no man's 19 land when you get a nuclear plant. People can't go there 20 again. It's kind of like a land grab, it seems to me, 21 kind of giving away your land which can never be entered 22 again because it always -- even in decommissioning, 23 because it always has to be protected from the radiation.
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49 1 decommissioned, it has to be certainly safe, too.
2 There are alternatives and I, too, would 3 suggest that NRC consider other alternatives besides 4 just those two.
5 I want to talk about radiation doses and 6 you have -- NRC has radiation doses. They have 7 established standards and those standards for radiation 8 tell all the nuclear plants what level of dosages are 9 okay, in their opinion, okay for you to receive. Some 10 small amount that they consider absolutely safe and below 11 that there's no problem. And that's how they figure 12 out what the dosage is going to be and how they say there's 13 no public risk. But we all know that there is no safe 14 dose of radiation because it's cumulative.
15 I'll do the rest at the evening meeting or 16 maybe another time here.
17 MR. HAGAR: All right. Thank you, Sandy.
18 Don Safer, did you have some more to say?
19 MR. SAFER: Yes, sir.
20 MR. HAGAR: Ten minutes, please.
21 MS. SAFER: Once again thanks for the 22 opportunity. Before I get started, I'd like to 23 recommend to everybody, especially the young people 24 working on the NRC on this project. It's called Tritium 25 on Ice. It gives a great history of the NRC, not totally, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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50 1 but in regard to the ice condenser design and the tritium 2 question. And this man worked at the Sandia Lab for 3 25 years. He was highly respected until the truth 4 finally got to him, especially on this particular issue.
5 6 And in here he says that there are serious 7 grounds for worry that ice condenser plants could undergo 8 catastrophic accidents exposing nearby populations to 9 fatal doses of radioactivity. And he goes on to 10 say -- this is a dispassionate outside observer -- "The 11 fact that the operator of the plants is the Tennessee 12 Valley Authority, a federal agency with a long history 13 of compromising nuclear safety, exacerbates the 14 potential danger."
15 Now the history of TVA and nuclear is long 16 and it's not so pretty. And we've been very lucky that 17 we haven't had a major accident. Browns Ferry almost 18 went up because of the famous candle fire in 1974. And 19 if you don't know about it, you should look it up because 20 it's pretty scary.
21 There have been improvements, but his main 22 point in here is that the ice condenser design is 23 fundamentally flawed from the get-go. It was originally 24 designed as a way to put -- make the containment vessel 25 less robust, not as thick, not as strong, not as big.
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51 1 So it costs less. This is nuclear power on the cheap.
2 That's not the kind of nuclear power that we really 3 want. We don't want any nuclear power, but on the cheap 4 is the worst. That's why he says it's more likely to 5 fail.
6 The description of the ice condenser system 7 is very well done by Dave Lochbaum in his book. And 8 the ice condenser is a large vault-like structure which 9 encircles the base of the reactor containment building.
10 The ice condenser is subdivided into 24 bays. Each 11 bay has two hinged doors at the bottom of the wall between 12 the reactor containment building and the ice condenser.
13 Each bay contains 81 large 45-foot-tall baskets filled 14 with ice. Those doors, in a major accident those doors 15 are supposed to open. The ice is supposed to absorb 16 the heat.
17 It's supposed to be chipped ice. And I 18 would like to ask the Resident Inspector of the NRC maybe 19 privately or maybe publicly to establish whether that 20 ice stays chipped or whether it becomes solid blocks 21 of ice and they dealt with the subsidence issue. But 22 not on my 10 minutes here, please.
23 The other major issue it's been mentioned 24 about the children. In doing research on this in a 25 Reuter's article from March 15th, 2011, it quoted, it NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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52 1 said between 12,000 and 83,000 children were born with 2 congenital deformities according to the German 3 physicians group IPPNW, between 12,000 and 83,000 4 children born with deformities. Some of the deformities 5 of these children, if you have the stomach for it, they're 6 horrible. They're hardly human.
7 Chernobyl?
8 MR. SAFER: At Chernobyl, I'm sorry, 9 Chernobyl. What did I say? At Chernobyl, anyway at 10 Chernobyl. And so that's going back there.
11 The other thing that I would like -- next 12 thing I'd like the NRC to consider in this application 13 is the need for the power from this risky type of power.
14 Last year alone in 2012, according to the USA Today 15 there was over 13,000 megawatts of wind power installed 16 in the United States. That's 13 reactors like Sequoyah.
17 In one year without hearings like this, without the 18 need to go through these types of procedures, without 19 the risk to the public, without the evacuation plans, 20 without the radioactive waste. At Sequoyah 21 there's currently 1,174 metric tons of this high level 22 radioactive waste. It's easily one to three million 23 times more radioactive than when the fuel went into the 24 reactors. This is not just spent fuel; this stuff is 25 a nightmare.
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53 1 At Fukushima Unit 4, which is teetering and 2 if it falls there are concerns by scientists that it 3 will be a global environmental catastrophe if that Unit 4 4 if all the cesium in there spills and is spread. Well, 5 the amount of cesium -- amount of fuel rods in that pool 6 is far less than the 796 metric tons in the pools at 7 Sequoyah right now. There's also 378 metric tons in 8 casks there.
9 So back to the need for it, the wind 10 potential, the solar potential in the valley, at this 11 point TVA is putting a restriction on the amount of solar 12 that can be installed. There's so much more potential 13 to install solar and it won't even cost TVA anything 14 but the feed-in tariff. People are willing to spend 15 their own money, put these solar panels on their roofs.
16 And TVA is putting a limit on how much solar power can 17 go on people's roofs.
18 I think it's to justify continuing to build 19 Watts Bar 2, continuing to operate Sequoyah, doing the 20 small modular reactors. They're doing everything they 21 can to slow down the renewables.
22 And there are credible sources. The 23 National Renewal Energy Lab in Colorado, it's a 24 Department of Energy funded think tank on renewable 25 energy. It says we can get all of our power in a reliable NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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54 1 grid by 2040 -- or 80 percent of our power in a reliable 2 grid by 2040 from all renewable sources. And that's 3 not with -- that's without even evolving the renewable 4 technology like it's going to evolve.
5 We don't need this plant. We need to get 6 away from it. They're doing it in Germany. After 7 Fukushima, the Germans decided to shut down all of their 8 nuclear plants. They're going to do it by 2020, when 9 this license is set to extend the life another 20 years.
10 Certainly we can make plans and get rid of it. In Japan 11 after Fukushima, they had maybe one reactor operating.
12 They had to go cold turkey off of nuclear because the 13 people won't accept it anymore after they've seen the 14 cost.
15 So we should have a phase-out at least.
16 And the beginning of the phase-out is to stop licensing, 17 relicensing these old plants that have a much higher 18 likelihood of problems, especially these ice condenser 19 designs. The idea of putting MOX in this reactor which 20 is under consideration -- TVA is the only utility that's 21 thinking about using it -- is phenomenally ridiculous.
22 And this was tried in two ice condensers that Duke Power 23 owns. And those experiments failed, and Duke Power ran 24 away from it screaming. They won't touch the stuff.
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55 1 it.
2 So the waste confidence, the waste, it was 3 supposed to already be somewhere else. In the very 4 beginning, they said, "Oh, don't worry about the waste."
5 And there've been oh so many different ways to deal 6 with it theoretically. But the reality is it's an almost 7 insoluble problem that nowhere in the world have they 8 really answered.
9 Reprocessing is an environmental 10 nightmare. Ask the people in West Valley, New York where 11 they tried reprocessing. And this was years and years 12 ago -- 20 or 30 years ago. And they're still cleaning 13 up the mess. The DOE is still cleaning up the mess.
14 And there's a plume of radioactive water that's headed 15 to the Great Lakes underground. And it's an 16 environmental nightmare for the people.
17 So this licensing procedure can't even be 18 finished until the NRC figures out what to do with the 19 waste. They did something called waste confidence.
20 They said, "Trust us. We have confidence we'll figure 21 out what to do with the waste."
22 Some of the independent environmental groups took 23 the NRC to court and actually won. And the court said 24 you got to have a plan. And that process is going on 25 concurrently with this process.
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56 1 I think the feeling is that the NRC, oh, 2 we'll get the waste confidence thing done and we'll get 3 the Sequoyah thing done. And they'll all go together.
4 But they can't relicense this plant until that waste 5 is adequately addressed and there are a lot of plans 6 to do that. But some of the best minds in the world 7 have been trying to figure that out for 50 years and 8 have not figured it out.
9 It's a nightmare stew of toxic substances 10 that absolutely have to be protected from the biosphere.
11 And we are not doing a good job of that. And that's 12 why the background radiation levels are increasing.
13 If you want to find out more about the ice 14 condenser design again for the NRC, please read New Reg 15 1150. That was something that was developed in the 1980s 16 after Three Mile Island when there was a very serious 17 attempt at the NRC to study the reactors. And that's 18 where the ice condensers came out as the very most likely 19 to fail. And that again was a study conducted by the 20 NRC.
21 And it needs to be part of the debate about 22 whether this reactor should continue. It should have 23 been part of the debate about Watts Bar 2 and the 24 licensing there.
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57 1 interest by the people of the country and also at the 2 NRC in safety because of the tragedy at Fukushima. And 3 I trust that that spirit will infuse this process.
4 It is a fact that not one of these renewal 5 applications has been denied. And I have people who 6 have called it rubber stamped. I hope that the rubber 7 stamping stops and this will be a very serious 8 consideration.
9 And thank you.
10 MR. HAGAR: Okay, I need to address an 11 administrative detail. One of the speakers has picked 12 up my clipboard off of this lectern. Oh, never mind, 13 the NRC speaker got it.
14 All right, we have all of the speakers who 15 signed up to speak have spoken, some twice. Is there 16 anyone else like to speak twice? Gretel?
17 Okay, Gretel. And you have 10 minutes, 18 please.
19 MS. JOHNSTON: Thanks, okay. A lot of 20 issues have come up. Let me see. First, I'll just 21 address some of the ways that -- oops, uh-oh -- before 22 I address anything, I need to make sure that's not going 23 to -- can you all hear me all right? Good, okay.
24 I would like to talk about a number of issues 25 I have concerns about that are specific to Sequoyah.
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58 1 Some of them apply to other nuclear power plants as well.
2 One of them that is specific to Sequoyah is what I 3 consider, our group considers, a compromised integrity 4 of the containment and that we consider it beyond the 5 design basis of this nuclear power plant.
6 That the TVA sawed through the containment, 7 the concrete and the metal secondary containment, of 8 the building the reactor is in and 9 took out a broken generator and replaced it with a giant 10 crane. And this was not designed to be done. This power 11 plant was not designed for this. So this is a beyond 12 design basis issue.
13 And I hope that the evaluators will consider 14 that in the light of the integrity of the unit itself, 15 but also in the light of what it means in terms of TVA's 16 willingness to cut into the containment structure, 17 thereby compromising it in order to cut costs to continue 18 the program. We think this is an unacceptable lack of 19 quality control at the very least and it shows little 20 concern for the safety and health of the citizens in 21 this area.
22 Which by the way someone was wondering about 23 that. Within a 50-mile radius of Sequoyah, there are 24 over a million people, thanks to Pam Sann (phonetic) 25 I know that, and that is a major concern.
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59 1 Another deliberately fabricated beyond design 2 basis ongoing event that has been mentioned earlier is 3 this extended use of cooling pools to store the 4 irradiated, spent -- it's called spent fuel, but it's 5 actually much more toxic than the uranium that goes into 6 the reactors because it has been enriched in the process, 7 creating these radionuclides I talked about earlier.
8 In that the Homeland Security and Congress 9 asked the National Academy of Sciences to do a study 10 on this to decide whether it was dangerous, this 11 overloading of the cooling pools, and they recommended 12 that all of the fuel going into these cooling pools be 13 removed after five years and put into dry cask storage 14 which is considerably safer for all of us.
15 The ones in Fukushima, that's a lesson of 16 Fukushima, the dry cask storage, came out unscathed.
17 The cooling pools we still don't know. That's what they 18 were dropping water from the helicopters to try and 19 prevent a fire at the cooling pools.
20 According to a very well respected Robert 21 Alvarez at the -- I'm sorry, I've forgotten where he 22 is -- the Policy Institute of some sort. Anyway he wrote 23 a study in 2012 and he quoted something that I think 24 is worth requoting, "A severe pool fire," -- they 25 said -- first let me preface it that they had known for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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60 1 decades that severe accidents can occur in cooling pools.
2 They've known that for decades. And he said, "A severe 3 pool fire could render about 188 square miles around 4 the nuclear reactor uninhabitable. Could cause as many 5 as 28,000 cancer fatalities and cause 59 billion dollars 6 in damage according to a 1997 report for the NRC by 7 Brookhaven National Laboratory." Sequoyah has 8 well over 1,000 metric tons of this higher irradiated 9 radioactive trash and it's very, very dangerous stuff.
10 And it's stored in these cooling pools. In fact, 75 11 percent has been piling up in these cooling pools for 12 30 years now. They've only moved a quarter of it into 13 dry cask storage. Now that's a better rate than Watts 14 Bar, which is 100 percent in the cooling pools and Browns 15 Ferry, which is 88 percent in the cooling pools.
16 But basically they're just saving a buck 17 by keeping it in the pools and not putting it in the 18 safer dry cask storage. Okay, that's beyond the 19 potential for these concerns. They're potential 20 non-deliberate beyond design basis events such as floods 21 or tornadoes.
22 The TVA dams are aging and they were not 23 built to withstain earthquakes in the way that big power 24 plants were. They don't have -- they're not up to those 25 standards and they are aging. And there have been many, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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61 1 many failures of dams in America and TVA has suffered 2 some as well. And we're concerned that there could be 3 a dam failure that could trigger a domino effect above 4 Sequoyah and that numerous dams could break. And the 5 integrity of the cooling systems could be compromised 6 no matter how much planning we do. As we found at 7 Fukushima, we cannot foresee everything; we are human.
8 9 Okay, another issue is maintenance. TVA's 10 record -- and I found out when the tornadoes came in 11 2001 and we had the outbreak of tornadoes in April, there 12 were two of the eight backup generators that were 13 inoperable at Browns Ferry that day. One of those EF-5 14 tornadoes, the strongest tornadoes known to man, touched 15 down very close to Browns Ferry within visual distance.
16 And it was a very close call because those are different 17 kinds of cooling pools. They're raised up in the air 18 and all they have is overhead containment or sheet metal 19 roofs.
20 It's the same as Fukushima. That's what 21 built up and you saw those roofs blow off in Fukushima.
22 It's the same design.
23 Okay, so two of those were inoperable on 24 that day. The next day another one had to be shut down.
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62 1 in the backup emergency systems.
2 And the irony of nuclear power plants is 3 that you have to have incoming power from another source 4 to keep them from being -- (Noise in background) 5 Is that me?
6 THE REPORTER: That's not you.
7 MS. JOHNSTON: Okay, I'm glad. So you have 8 to have a backup power system for you power system and 9 that's a sad reality with nuclear power.
10 And, okay, I want to show you something 11 here. I notice in the ACRS that tornadoes were mentioned 12 and they talked about their study. Basically they did 13 their statistical work around two major periods. One 14 was a 37-year period from 1950 to 1986 and there were 15 31 tornadoes during that period in a 34-mile radius.
16 And then the next period was the next 15 years up to 17 2002 and there were 23 tornadoes during that period.
18 That is nearly doubling the rate in that period time.
19 And this only goes up to 2002. Okay, well, 20 in 2011, as you can see, this is NOAA track of the 21 tornadoes that came through the Tennessee Valley on April 22 27th, 2011. And those circles are the 50-mile radius 23 of our nuclear power plant in this valley. And Sequoyah 24 had around 15 of them, it looks like here. Someone else 25 may count it differently, but that's what it looked like NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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63 1 to me.
2 And I noticed in your report that you did 3 mention that and that TVA reported that three of them 4 touched down within 10 miles of Sequoyah. Your 5 statisticians predict unlikely odds of a direct hit on 6 Sequoyah. But I tell you, I'm not real confident with 7 gambling on this. There's a lot of people whose lives 8 are involved in this and I think we need to take it 9 seriously.
10 And I think what it's going to take is us 11 demanding that the dollar not be counted above our health 12 and safety. And I, of course, call for the 13 decommissioning of Sequoyah.
14 Thank you very much.
15 MR. HAGAR: Thank you, Gretel.
16 Now is there anyone who wants another 17 opportunity to speak that's already spoken?
18 And is there anyone in the audience that 19 has not yet spoken who wants to?
20 (Background comment) 21 MR. HAGAR: Okay, I understand we'll hear 22 from you later then.
23 I would remind everyone that we're going 24 to hold a repeat of this meeting at 6:00 p.m. tonight.
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64 1 outside off the outside desk and fill it out and send 2 it in so we can have your assessment of how this meeting 3 went.
4 And we'll also let you know, remind you that 5 the NRC staff will stay available after the meeting to 6 have one-on-one conversations about any topic you want 7 to talk about.
8 So does anyone have any question about 9 anything we've covered?
10 Then I thank you for your time and attention 11 and this meeting is adjourned.
12 (Whereupon, this meeting was adjourned at 13 3:33 p.m.)
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