ML092860275
| ML092860275 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Turkey Point  |
| Issue date: | 05/07/2009 |
| From: | Division of Operating Reactor Licensing |
| To: | |
| Orf, T J, NRR/DORL/301-415-2788 | |
| References | |
| 2.206, 2.206 Petition, EDATS: OEDO-2009-0091, G20090107, NRC-2814, OEDO-2009-0091, TAC ME0759, TAC ME0760 | |
| Download: ML092860275 (77) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
2.206 Petition on Florida Power and Light Company by Thomas Saporito Docket Number: (n/a)
Location: (telephone conference)
Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009 Work Order No.: NRC-2814 Pages 1-76 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 + + + + +
4 PETITION REVIEW BOARD (PRB) 5 CONFERENCE CALL 6 + + + + +
7 THURSDAY 8 MAY 7, 2009 9 + + + + +
10 2.206 PETITION ON FLORIDA POWER AND LIGHT COMPANY 11 BY THOMAS SAPORITO 12 + + + + +
13 14 The conference call was held, Thomas B.
15 Blount, Petition Review Board Chairman, presiding.
16 NRC HEADQUARTERS STAFF:
17 THOMAS B. BLOUNT, Chairman, PRB 18 TRACY J. ORF, Petition Manager 19 TANYA M. MENSAH, Petition Coordinator 20 MOLLY L. BARKMAN, OGC/GCHEA/AGCMLE 21 AUDREY L. KLETT, NRR/ADRO/DIRS/IP 22 LISAMARIE JARRIEL, OE 23 PETITIONER:
24 THOMAS SAPORITO 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 NRC REGION II STAFF:
2 MARVIN SYKES, DRP/PB2 3
4 APPEARANCES:
5 On Behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission:
6 MOLLY L. BARKMAN, ESQ.
7 Office of General Counsel 8 Nuclear Regulatory Commission 9 One White Flint North 10 Mail Stop O-15D21 11 11555 Rockville Pike 12 Rockville, Maryland 20851 13 (301)415-1117 14 On Behalf of Florida Power and Light Company:
15 WILLIAM BLAIR, ESQ.
16 700 Universe Boulevard 17 Juno Beach, Florida 33408 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (1:33:45 p.m.)
3 MR. ORF: I'd like to thank everybody for 4 attending this meeting. My name is Tracy Orf, and I 5 am sitting in for Jason Paige, the Turkey Point 6 Project Manager. We are here today to allow the 7 Petitioner, Mr. Thomas Saporito, to address the 8 Petition Review Board regarding the 2.206 Petition 9 dated January 11th, 2009. I am the current Petition 10 Manager for this petition.
11 The Petition Review Board Chairman is Tom 12 Blount, Deputy Director for the Division of Policy and 13 Rulemaking. As part of the Petition Review Board's, 14 or PRB's review of this petition, Mr. Thomas Saporito 15 has requested this opportunity to address the PRB.
16 This meeting is scheduled from 1:30 p.m.
17 to 3:30 p.m. The meeting is being recorded by the NRC 18 Operations Center, and will be transcribed by a court 19 reporter. The transcript will become a supplement to 20 the petition. The transcript will also be made 21 publicly available.
22 I'd like to open this meeting with 23 introductions, and as we go around the room, please be 24 sure to clearly state your name, your position, and 25 the office that you work for within the NRC, or your NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 subject organization. I'll start it off. My name is 2 Tracy Orf. I work for NRR at the NRC.
3 MS. JARRIEL: Lisa Jarriel. I'm the Agency 4 Allegation Advisor in the Office of Enforcement.
5 MS. BARKMAN: Molly Barkman. I'm an 6 attorney in the Office of General Counsel.
7 MR. BLOUNT: I'm Tom Blount. I'm the PRB 8 Chair. I'm also Deputy Director for the Division of 9 Policy and Rulemaking in NRR.
10 MS. KLETT: My name is Audrey Klett. I'm 11 a Reactor Operations Engineer in the Office of Nuclear 12 Reactor Regulation, Division of Inspection, Regional 13 Support.
14 MS. MENSAH: My name is Tanya Mensah. I'm 15 the 2.206 Petition Coordinator.
16 MR. ORF: Okay. That's everybody at NRC 17 Headquarters. Has anyone from the regional office 18 joined us yet?
19 MR. SYKES: Hi. This is Marvin Sykes from 20 Region II.
21 MR. ORF: Okay. The licensee for Turkey 22 Point is Florida Power and Light. Would you please 23 introduce yourself?
24 MR. BLAIR: My name is William Blair. I'm 25 an attorney with Florida Power and Light.
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5 1 MR. ORF: Okay. And, Mr. Saporito, would 2 you please introduce yourself for the record.
3 MR. SAPORITO: Yes, sir. My name is 4 Thomas Saporito. I'm with Saporito Energy 5 Consultants, and I am the Petitioner for this meeting.
6 MR. ORF: Okay. Is there anyone that I've 7 missed? Okay. I'd like to emphasize that we need to 8 speak clearly and loudly to make sure the court 9 reporter can accurately transcribe this meeting. If 10 you do have something that you would like to say, 11 please first state your name for the record. At this 12 time, I'll turn it over to the PRB Chairman, Tom 13 Blount.
14 MR. BLOUNT: Good afternoon. Welcome to 15 the meeting regarding the 2.206 petition submitted by 16 Mr. Thomas Saporito. I'd like to first share some 17 background on our process.
18 Section 2.206 of Title 10 of the Code of 19 Federal Regulations describes the petition process, 20 the primary mechanism for the public to request 21 enforcement action by the NRC in a public process.
22 This process permits anyone to petition NRC to take 23 enforcement-type actions related to NRC licensees, or 24 license activities.
25 Depending upon the results of this NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 evaluation, NRC could modify, suspend, or revoke an 2 NRC-issued license, or take any other appropriate 3 enforcement action to resolve a problem. The NRC 4 Staff Guidance for the disposition of 2.206 petition 5 requests is in Management Directive 8.11, which is 6 publicly available.
7 The purpose of today's meeting is to allow 8 the Petitioner, Mr. Saporito, an opportunity to 9 continue with his presentation of March 19th, 2009, 10 providing any additional explanation or support for 11 the petition before the Petition Review Board's 12 initial consideration and recommendation.
13 This meeting is not a hearing, nor is it 14 an opportunity for the Petitioner to question or 15 examine the PRB on the merits or issues presented in 16 the petition request. No decisions regarding the 17 merits of this petition will be made at this meeting.
18 Following this meeting, the Petition 19 Review Board will conduct its internal deliberations.
20 The outcome of this internal meeting will be 21 discussed with the Petitioner. The Petition Review 22 Board typically consists of a Chairman, usually a 23 Manager at the Senior Executive Service level at the 24 NRC. It has a Petition Manager, and a PRB 25 Coordinator. Other members of the Board are NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 determined by the NRC Staff based on the content of 2 the information in the petition request.
3 At this time, I'd like to introduce the 4 Board. I am Tom Blount, as I indicated earlier, the 5 Petition Review Board Chairman. Tracy Orf is the 6 Petition Manager for this petition under discussion 7 today. Tanya Mensah is the Office's PRB Coordinator.
8 Audrey Klett is the Office of NRR, or Nuclear Reactor 9 Regulation Technical Lead on Safety Culture. Marvin 10 Sykes is the NRC's Region II representative. We also 11 obtain advice from our Office of General Counsel 12 represented by Molly Barkman. We also have a 13 representative from the Office of Enforcement, OE, 14 Lisamarie Jarriel, Agency Allegation Advisor.
15 The PRB notified the NRC OIG of the 2.206 16 PRB meeting today in consideration of Mr. Saporito's 17 request that the OIG be in attendance. The OIG has 18 requested a copy of the transcript of this PRB 19 meeting.
20 As described in our process, the NRC staff 21 may ask clarifying questions in order to better 22 understand the Petitioner's presentation, and to reach 23 a reasoned decision whether to accept or reject the 24 Petitioner's request for review under the 2.206 25 process. Florida Power and Light, the licensee for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 1 Turkey Point, has been invited to this meeting, and 2 will be afforded an opportunity to ask clarifying 3 questions of the Petitioner. For clarification, the 4 licensee is not part of the decision making process, 5 or the NRC's review of 2.206 petitions. We invite the 6 licensees so that they are aware of a request for 7 action against their facility, and provide an 8 opportunity to ask questions so that they may 9 understand the details pertaining to their facility.
10 I would like to summarize the scope of the 11 petition under consideration, and NRC's activities to 12 date. On January 11th, 2009, Mr. Thomas Saporito 13 submitted to the NRC a petition under 2.206 regarding 14 concerns with Turkey Point's Employee Concerns 15 program. In this petition request, Mr. Saporito 16 identified the following areas of concern. One, 17 request for issuance for notice of violation with 18 civil penalty for $1 million. Two, request that NRC 19 issue a confirmatory order modifying the Florida Power 20 and Light license to impose requirements for safety 21 culture assessments, ratings of supervisors and 22 managers by employees, training programs for all 23 supervisors and managers on safety conscious work 24 environment, and the employee protection rule. And 25 the licensee shall inform all employees of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 1 confirmatory order and their rights to raise safety 2 concerns. The proffered basis for the two requests 3 are that the licensee did a self-assessment of its 4 ECP, which identified weaknesses and areas of 5 improvement in the ECP; that the NRC has issued two 6 Notices of Violations for violations of the Employee 7 Protection Rule, and that Florida Power and Light has 8 a 20-year history of retaliatory actions.
9 Allow me to discuss the NRC activities to 10 date. The NRR Petition Review Board has not met 11 internally to make an initial recommendation on this 12 2.206 petition. Following the conclusion of today's 13 call, the Petition Review Board will convene 14 internally to make an initial recommendation. You 15 will be informed of the initial recommendation.
16 As a reminder for the phone participants, 17 please identify yourself if you make any remarks, as 18 this will help us in the preparation of the meeting 19 transcript that will be made publicly available.
20 Thank you.
21 As I have stated before, this 22 teleconference is a continuation of the March 19th, 23 2009 teleconference. Mr. Saporito, there is no need 24 to begin anew, as the PRB has been provided a 25 transcript of the previous teleconference. For your NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 1 information, we have received and reviewed the 2 documents that you provided to Mr. Paige on April 3 21st, 2009. You will have one hour and a half, 90 4 minutes, to provide the PRB with additional 5 information in support of your request. And we will 6 alert you when there are 10 minutes remaining.
7 With that said, Mr. Saporito, I'll turn it 8 over to you, and allow you to provide any information 9 you believe the PRB should consider as part of this 10 petition.
11 MR. SAPORITO: All right. Thank you very 12 much. I appreciate the second opportunity to address 13 the PRB in this matter. I think it's important for 14 the public to interface with the government regarding 15 nuclear power operations in this country.
16 Just for the record, I believe the first 17 meeting was on March 14th, and not March 19th. Because 18 this is a public record, I heard the acronym NRC OIG 19 mentioned. NRC OIG for the public's information is 20 Nuclear Regulatory Commission's Office of the 21 Inspector General.
22 I'm going to be referencing the documents 23 that I did provide to the Agency, and they were 24 enumerated with a SEC number at the top of each 25 document, with the first document being SEC Number 1.
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11 1 And that would be the petition. So, the PRB members 2 have those documents at their disposal at this time.
3 Is that correct?
4 MR. ORF: This is Tracy Orf. Yes, we have 5 them.
6 MR. SAPORITO: Okay. Great.
7 All right. As the Petition Manager, Mr.
8 Blount, accurately stated, the petition was filed on 9 January 11th, 2009, and was seeking a $1 million 10 penalty, Notice of Violation with a $1 million penalty 11 to get the licensee's attention to correct the work 12 environment. That's the essence of this petition. We 13 strongly believe in nuclear power production in this 14 country, but the employees have to have a work 15 environment that encourages them to raise safety 16 concerns without any fear of retaliation whatsoever.
17 And that's what the essence of this petition is, is 18 for, number one, to get the licensee's attention with 19 a stiff penalty, a monetary penalty. And, number two, 20 to modify the license in such a way that the licensee 21 is required to take aggressive measures to change, 22 what I believe to be hostile culture, hostile work 23 environment because of poor management culture at that 24 nuclear plant just over the last 20 years.
25 Okay. The first document we're going to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 look at is SEC Number 2, which is where we left off in 2 March. This is the State of Florida Public Counsel 3 brief, the Citizen's brief on Issue 13. It's a 4 document that was submitted in the Florida Public 5 Service Commission Rate Hearing involving Florida 6 Power and Light. The page I want to continue on is 7 page 11, where I left off last time, and specifically 8 at the bottom of the page under Paragraph 5.
9 There is language there that talks about 10 Commissioner Skop, S-K-O-P. Now, he pursued a concern 11 with the Public Counsel and with Florida Power and 12 Light attorneys regarding a hole that had been drilled 13 in the plant system as an act of sabotage related to a 14 contract worker who was permitted unescorted access to 15 the facility.
16 The part that I want to highlight to the 17 PRB is that a co-worker became knowledgeable of this 18 vandalism before FPL discovered the vandalism, but the 19 co-worker did not report it immediately. So, there 20 was some apprehension of that co-worker. It's my 21 understanding, the beliefs that the co-worker did not 22 want to be subject to any type of retaliation for 23 identifying this safety issue, and it shows that in 24 this one instance, in any event, that there was a 25 delayed reaction in not coming forward with the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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13 1 information. And if my recollection serves me 2 correctly, I believe FPL offered $100,000 reward to 3 anyone at that plant with information leading to the 4 individual or individuals who performed this act of 5 sabotage. So, the fact that a licensee has to offer 6 $100,000 for their workforce to come forward with 7 information should be a red flag to the NRC that there 8 is a problem with that work environment, where people 9 aren't properly trained to come forward with these 10 concerns, and fear retaliation if they do come forward 11 with safety complaints.
12 If you turn to page 12, the next page of 13 that same document, the Public Counsel is talking 14 about the same point I just made. It raises the 15 issues of the adequacy of FPL's training of workers 16 with nuclear power plant access, and that they must be 17 trained about the importance of reporting anything 18 that could be a safety concern. In fact, this 19 particular worker, who was a co-worker, failed to 20 report this serious act of vandalism, that's a concern 21 of itself, and it reflects FPL's failure to properly 22 train its nuclear workforce at the Turkey Point 23 facility. And the fact that this contract worker was 24 allowed access to the power plant, also calls into 25 question FPL's failure as a licensee regarding plant NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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14 1 access to their nuclear power plant. So, it's an 2 illustration of failed training programs at the 3 facility.
4 And, Commissioner Skop, his concerns 5 included the adequate emphasis of how critical it is 6 for nuclear workers to report safety concerns. FPL, 7 according to this document, is not able to properly, 8 or definitively answer the Commissioner's concerns.
9 The very end of that document, the last 10 paragraph talks about -- there's a statement there.
11 "First, this failure arose in the training process 12 just as in Docket No. 900001." And the reason why I 13 highlight that particular sentence is because that 14 docket was another Public Service Commission public 15 hearing. That was back in 1989 where numerous 16 operators at the Turkey Point facility failed to pass 17 the NRC required re-qualification exam. So, the NRC 18 took action back then, and those plants were not 19 permitted to restart until those operators could 20 demonstrate their knowledge of how to operate that 21 plant. So, you can see that there's quite a lengthy 22 history of 20 years, where we're addressing training 23 problems at that facility.
24 The next page, page 13, under Paragraph 6, 25 this talks about, there was an NRC augmented NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 inspection team sent to the Turkey Point facility in 2 2006 when this vandal drilled a hole in one of the 3 reactor system loops. And the augmented inspection 4 team went in and investigated, and made a report. And 5 that was followed by a report by the FBI, who did 6 their own investigation. FPL put a witness on the 7 stand, and the individual took an oath to tell the 8 truth at a public hearing. And the Public Counsel, 9 his comment related to that testimony. And after 10 referencing the ATR report, the Public Counsel goes on 11 to say, "Nevertheless, FPL witness took liberties to 12 make several public representations which purported to 13 characterize the AIT's findings, the actual language 14 of the confidential report, however, directly 15 contradicts the public representation that FPL made 16 about AIT's findings."
17 And the very next sentence says, "The 18 utility's witness claimed that the NRC's confidential 19 findings exonerated FPL." And the Public Counsel 20 pointed to the Commissioner saying that, "Mr. Jones' 21 claims, however, are directly contradicted by the 22 report, itself."
23 And the next page has a big section at the 24 top that you can't read because it was crossed out, 25 because it's confidential part of that report because NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 1 it's a security-related matter. That's why that's 2 blacked out like that, or redacted. But that's what 3 he's referring to. He said FPL put a witness under 4 oath up here, testified that the NRC exonerated the 5 utility, which meant they did nothing wrong allowing 6 this contractor to come on their site, even though the 7 contractor ended up vandalizing the plant. And Public 8 Counsel is saying that's all -- what he's saying 9 really is suborned perjury, putting somebody under 10 oath. You're saying one thing, and it's totally a 11 lie. That should be of grave concern to the NRC, 12 because we're talking about a licensee here who's 13 entrusted with public health and safety in operating 14 two nuclear power reactors on this Turkey Point 15 facility. So, these are very serious situations when 16 you have a utility, in what appears to be a very 17 blatant act of suborned perjury, in my view.
18 Anyway, on page 14, the next page of that 19 document, Public Counsel goes on to say, "The clear 20 and unambiguous language the AIT report itself 21 directly contradicts Mr. Jones' claim that the AIT 22 found FPL's programs, processes, and procedures in 23 full compliance with the NRC." And "in full 24 compliance with the NRC" is in quotes, meaning that's 25 the words of Mr. Jones, the FPL representative.
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17 1 Then at the bottom of page 14, Public 2 Counsel goes on to talk about that, "Initially, FPL 3 never mentioned any red flags, but rather led the 4 Commission to understand that the individual's 5 application, meaning the vandal, was clean. And then 6 just days before the hearing, it was revealed that the 7 individual's security questionnaire, with FPL has 8 possession since 2006", okay, for two years they've 9 had that, "showed a number of red flags that should 10 have concerned FPL." So, that was the point made by 11 the Public Counsel.
12 And, on the very next page, on page 15, 13 the Public Counsel talks about, "The vandal had 14 confided to a co-worker that he had drilled the hole, 15 and had the co-worker reported this serious violation, 16 serious admission in a timely fashion, the hole would 17 have been discovered and repaired without any 18 additional outage. Requiring workers to report 19 incidents of such magnitude is the responsibility of 20 FPL's program for training nuclear plant workers."
21 And that brings us back to the point that FPL has a 22 failed training program across the board over there at 23 the Turkey Point facility with respect to compliance 24 with the NRC regulations at 10 CFR 50.7.
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18 1 management, and they don't properly train their 2 supervisory personnel. They don't properly train the 3 nuclear workers, themselves, about the employees 4 unfettered right to raise nuclear safety complaints 5 directly to the NRC, directly to management, or to the 6 media without any fear of retaliation, whatsoever. And 7 this particular exhibit, which is SEC Number 2, 8 amplifies that point in spades.
9 All right. The next document I'm going to 10 talk about is SEC Number 3. Number 3 is entitled, 11 "FPL Turkey Point Employee Concerns Program, Self-12 assessment dated January 14th-17th, 2008." And, I 13 guess we'll go to page 7 first, and we're just going 14 to highlight the points that I want to emphasize here.
15 On page 7, there's a methodology, I'm sorry, that 16 they talk about. If you go down to the second 17 paragraph, it talks about the team performing 18 interviews on off-site personnel. And it says they 19 performed 27 interviews. And, in my view, 27 20 interviews is not representative of the volume of the 21 personnel at the Turkey Point site. Therefore, the 22 base, what I consider the baseline data for Turkey 23 Point Nuclear Plant's Employee Concerns Program 24 evaluation by the licensee is flawed, the methodology 25 is flawed, just on that basis alone. And I would NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 1 extend that concern back at least five years on all 2 their programs. You have to look at the baseline 3 data, how many employees did they interview? How many 4 were nuclear workers, craft, mechanics, electricians, 5 they type of people, how many people were in 6 Operations, how many people did you talk to, or 7 supervise? How many people did you talk to who were 8 managers, executive managers, corporate managers that 9 have responsibility and authority over the operations 10 at the Turkey Point Nuclear Plant? So, 27 people is 11 not adequate. It's not representative of the work 12 environment at that facility, in my view.
13 The next page we're going to look at is 14 page 10. And this talks about, the second paragraph, 15 specifically, "Employees continue to have a negative 16 perception that ECP, or Employees Concerns Program, 17 will address and investigate concerns properly. The 18 level of upper management support is sufficient, and 19 that the program not be used without fear of 20 retaliation, and that confidentiality of the concern 21 will not be maintained." So, what they're saying here 22 in this one paragraph is the employees have a very 23 negative perception about using the program. They 24 feel that their concerns not only will not be properly 25 addressed or investigated, but they also have a fear NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 1 of retaliation if they would go ahead and use that 2 program. And they certainly don't feel that there's 3 any measure of confidentiality maintained about people 4 who go and avail themselves of this program. So, 5 that's a pretty serious finding, and, let's face it, 6 that's the heart of any Employee Concerns Program.
7 You have to have a nuclear workforce at your facility 8 that is encouraged to use the program. They have to 9 feel good about it, they have to feel confident about 10 it. They have to know that when they raise a nuclear 11 safety complaint, that management takes that complaint 12 seriously, that management will exhaust no finite 13 amount of resources to insure that that concern is 14 investigated, and that at the proper point in time 15 when the licensee investigates, and either concludes 16 or fails to validate the concern, that there is proper 17 feedback to the individual, or individuals who brought 18 that concern. So, these items, or these elements of 19 the Employee Concerns Program are failed at the Turkey 20 Point facility. And, therefore, you have a generic 21 pervasive problem in implementing the existing 22 Employee Concerns Program. And this Employee Concerns 23 Program is labeled the icon ECP, is a product from the 24 prior program, which is called "Speak Up". And that 25 program is a failed program, also, so it's just a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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21 1 continuation of that failed program.
2 If you would turn to page 11 of that 3 document, again, at the top it talks that the team 4 only interviewed 27 employees. And some of those 5 employees were contractors, meaning that they didn't 6 work directly for the licensee. And, at some point, 7 there services would no longer be needed, and they 8 would leave. At the bottom of that page at Paragraph 9 5, it says, "Some individuals felt there has been 10 retaliation in the past for CRs", and CRs are 11 Critters. It's the licensee's documentation for 12 concerns. "There has been retaliation in the past for 13 CRs, and were concerned that it would be the same now.
14 A lot said there is retaliation for using the ECP.
15 This is part of the perception, where individuals --
16 they fear retaliation if they raise safety 17 complaints, and that they feel that there is 18 retaliation going on right now with people who engage 19 in the licensee's current ECP program."
20 All right. Then the next page of the 21 document, page 12. I'm going to go down to Paragraph 22 7, and it talks about, "None of the interviewees could 23 recall having any ECP specific training." So, of the 24 27 individuals that were interviewed, nobody was 25 trained. No one was trained on the ECP. Here is our NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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22 1 program, here's an outline of the program. If you 2 have a concern you would go here. You go here, this 3 is the next process. We look into the concern. We 4 either validate it or we don't, and then there's a 5 feedback step. We'll come back and ask for more input 6 from you before we make a final determination. But, 7 at some point, you're going to get feedback. And you 8 are protected as an employee in raising this concern.
9 If you feel -- if you've been retaliated against, you 10 can contact the NRC, because it's a violation under 10 11 CFR 50.7. They can't make you whole economically. If 12 you get some economic harm, you get fired, or 13 whatever, you can file a Department of Labor complaint 14 under 42C-58.51.
15 None of that was explained to these 16 employees, and that's part of the heart of the failed 17 program. If you don't train your nuclear workers 18 about your program, if you don't train your first 19 level supervisors about the program, if you don't 20 train your managers about the program, and you don't 21 train your executive management about the program, the 22 program is inherently flawed, and it will fail, as 23 this program has failed.
24 We go down below Paragraph 9 on page 12, 25 you'll see "Conclusions." And what I want to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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23 1 highlight, it says, "The majority of the employees did 2 not know the ECP Coordinator, or his name." Now, I 3 think that's very significant. I mean, if you're 4 going to have an effective Employee Concerns Program, 5 well, then individual charged with the responsibility 6 of implementing that program, and operating that 7 program, had darned well better become the most 8 popular individual at that nuclear power plant. That 9 individual should be attending management meetings.
10 That individual should be attending daily tel board 11 meetings in the maintenance department, in operations 12 department, health physics department, wherever that 13 individual can engage the volume of employees, that 14 individual should make himself known, make himself 15 seen, should be wearing a badge, I'm the ECP 16 Coordinator. You've got safety concerns, come talk to 17 me. He should go out there and solicit concerns, you 18 know. He can go in there at a plant safety meeting, 19 say I'm the ECP, in case you forgot who I am. I'm 20 still here. My name is whoever. Just want to let you 21 know, if you've got a concern, you come talk to me, or 22 I'll come meet you. You need to have a rapport with 23 people. You've got to make them understand that the 24 program is meant to encourage them to use it. And if 25 they do use it, I'm the guy that's going to help you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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24 1 get through this. If something bad happens to you 2 after you talk to me, darned sure someone is going to 3 be held accountable for it.
4 Well, these things aren't being done.
5 Hell, the people don't even know who this individual 6 is. They didn't even know what his name was, so, I 7 mean, that's a very, very big red flag. And NRC 8 should be very, very concerned about that.
9 Let's move to page 21 of the same 10 document. This says, "Conclusionary Statement" under 11 ECP facility, under Paragraph 1 at the very, very 12 bottom. Conclusionary Statement. "The ECP facilities 13 did not create a welcoming environment to conduct 14 investigations/interviews. Office accessibility was 15 also discussed, and the location of the trailers in an 16 area with heavy traffic, which could compromise the 17 concerned individual's confidentiality."
18 What they're saying here is that the 19 office facility where this unknown Employee Concerns 20 Program facility resides, it's not conducive -- it's 21 not a professionally -- it's an unprofessional looking 22 facility. It's a trailer. First of all, it's a 23 trailer, and it's a heavily trafficked area. If Mr.
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25 1 trailer, where everybody knows the trailer is the ECP 2 Coordinator's home. So, that does nothing to instill 3 confidence and encourage people to use the program.
4 And I have recently attended NRC Region II progress 5 meeting regarding Turkey Point Power Plant down in 6 Homestead, Florida a couple of weeks ago. I believe 7 Mr. Sykes on the line here, and he can validate that 8 one of the Commissioners stood up there. I believe 9 her name was Kathleen Soresen, I believe, if my memory 10 serves me right. And one of her concerns was, she 11 says, "Look, when people called in, talked to me, they 12 said there's a trailer out there at this Turkey Point 13 facility, and that's where people are supposed to 14 voice safety concerns. And there's a camera on it.
15 And she said that's something I want the NRC to look 16 into." She told that to the Region II people. So 17 this is the same trailer that we're talking about.
18 She's saying her people, and I have actually since 19 that time confirmed, or even prior to that time 20 confirmed that that is one of the concerns of these 21 people. Someone has told me yes, there is a camera 22 there, and that is one reason people don't want to use 23 that trailer facility to report concerns. And, as the 24 report documents, when you go in there -- you've got 25 to have an Employee Concerns Program, employees, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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26 1 whether they feel confident in using that program or 2 not, depends on a number of elements, some of which 3 we've already discussed. But one of those elements is 4 certainly whether or not management is serious about 5 the Employee Concerns Program, or do the majority of 6 the employees, including supervision and management, 7 believe that the program is just superficial; meaning 8 that, you know, the NRC is our regulator. And NRC 9 regulations at 10 CFR 50.7 says we've got to have a 10 work environment that encourages employees to raise 11 safety concerns. To meet that obligation, to keep our 12 operating license, we're going to come up with this --
13 we came up with this ECP program. But if the 14 employee sees that it's so superficial-- and, believe 15 me, if I walk into a trailer that has a camera on it, 16 and I've got to go through a bunch of my co-workers to 17 get there, management is not telling me that they're 18 very serious about this ECP program. They're not 19 spending any amount of resources, whatsoever.
20 I mean, there are very well-built 21 professional looking office facilities available at 22 that Turkey Point nuclear site. And there is 23 absolutely no reason that some of those resources 24 should not have been expended, and allocated, and 25 dedicated to the Employee Concerns Program. I'm NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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27 1 talking about going into a professional office, not a 2 trailer, a structure, building that's going to at 3 least withstand a hurricane, and that it's made out of 4 concrete and bricks, and it's well lit, and it's got 5 an Employee Concerns Program in there, and it's got a 6 secretary in there to assist this individual, so that 7 these employees can see that management is serious.
8 Management is not serious if you've got to report your 9 concerns to an individual who hangs his hat on a 10 trailer and monitoring everybody that comes in and out 11 of there with a camera.
12 Turning on to page 22 of that same 13 document, under the second half is highlighted 14 "Training". There's two paragraphs highlighted there.
15 First one I'm going to talk about, it says, "Team did 16 not conduct any interviews with site 17 supervisors/managers." Think about that. Here is a 18 licensee doing a self-assessment of their Employee 19 Concerns Program, and the reason they're --
20 theoretically, the reason they're doing a self-21 assessment is to identify deficiencies, to highlight 22 those deficiencies, and to resolve those deficiencies, 23 and to enhance the overall effectiveness of the 24 program. So, this team -- my understanding, there was 25 a team of individuals, people from other nuclear NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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28 1 plants were part of this team, so they're getting 2 input from all these other nuclear plants, which is an 3 excellent idea. It's an excellent way to handle this.
4 They have their ECP -- their licensing manager round 5 up all these individuals from these other plants and 6 made this team, but then they don't talk to any site 7 supervisors. They don't talk to any managers at the 8 site. I mean, what's with that? That's very, very 9 important to have -- and when you're going to 10 establish a baseline for your program -- I mean, you 11 have to have an effective baseline. You have to 12 interview from the top. You have to start with the 13 executive management level. You have to talk to this 14 guy J.A. Stall, who's been there since probably the 15 first brick was laid at the Turkey Point facility.
16 You have to start with him. You have to interview 17 him, get his understanding of how serious he is about 18 dedicating resources to this program. What he knows 19 about the program, does he understand what 10 CFR 50.7 20 means? Does he understand employees can go directly 21 to the NRC without -- have to be able to go there 22 without fear of retaliation to raise safety 23 complaints. And if you don't start there, the rest of 24 your baseline is flawed to begin with.
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29 1 attorneys, like this fellow, William Blair that's on 2 the line. You need to interview him. You need to get 3 his aspects, because he counsels executive managers 4 like Mr. Stall, and like Louis Hay, who is the CEO of 5 this company.
6 They want to build two more nuclear plants 7 out there, and here we have two nuclear plants which 8 they can't even manage effectively with respect to an 9 Employee Concerns Program, which is the heart of 10 protecting public health and safety. So, this program 11 is serious -- this self-assessment is seriously 12 flawed, and it shows how seriously flawed the ECP 13 existing at the Turkey Point facility is.
14 The next couple of lines down it talks 15 about conclusion. It says, "Employees are not trained 16 on HIRD effectively." HIRD is Harassment, 17 Intimidation, Retaliation and Discrimination. It 18 says, "There is no specific ECP HIRD training for 19 supervisors and managers." There is no training.
20 They're not trained on the program. They're not 21 trained about 10 CFR 50.7. They're not trained that 22 you cannot retaliate against employees who raise 23 safety concerns, either to the management, or directly 24 to NRC, or if they decide to go to the media. Say 25 look what happened here at this plant. They're not NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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30 1 trained at all, so if you're not training your 2 supervisors, if you're not training your managers, 3 guess what, your program is going to fail. People who 4 use the program, the crafts, the operators, HP 5 technicians, they're going to get retaliated against 6 for raising safety complaints. Why? Because 7 management and supervisors, they don't know any 8 better. They weren't even trained as to how to 9 ascertain what the route for a safety complaint is, 10 the protected status of the employee bringing that 11 concern, and how to interface, react, and deal with 12 the safety concern that was raised, and how to 13 interface, react, and deal with the employee who 14 raised that safety complaint. This is very, very, 15 very, very serious. It's a very serious finding.
16 The next page, page 23, has three 17 paragraphs highlighted there. I want to go to 18 Paragraph 3. It says, "There is no formal ECP 19 training. This is not applicable." So, this is a 20 generic statement about there is no training, period.
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31 1 supervisors aren't being trained, plant nuclear 2 licensed operators aren't being trained. Nobody is 3 being trained.
4 Paragraph 5 below that says, "There are no 5 ECP training objectives." There's no module, there's 6 no trainer to conduct the training sessions. So, this 7 is a failed program that will continue to fail because 8 there is absolutely no training going on at all with 9 respect to training the nuclear workforce at Turkey 10 Point Nuclear Station, or to train management, or 11 supervision. This amplifies, and exemplifies the 12 comments made by the Public Service Commissioner, 13 Commissioner Skop, S-K-O-P, when he said, "Look at 14 this contract nuclear worker that you allowed on your 15 plant. He drilled a hole in one of your nuclear 16 reactor loops. And a co-worker observed this, became 17 aware of it ahead of FPL, but that co-worker did not 18 report this concern."
19 Well, why would they? They were never 20 even trained that they were supposed to report that 21 nuclear safety concern. Had they been trained, even 22 though they're a contractor, they should be trained.
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32 1 have been brought on line much quicker than the week 2 or so it took to expend the funds for replacement 3 fuel. FPL would have saved themselves about $6 4 million. It's a failed program, and that's what 5 happens when you have a failed program. You have a 6 contract worker drilling a hole in a loop, and it's 7 not reported in a timely manner. It could not have 8 been reported at all, and it could have been another 9 system where the reactor started after it came up to 10 some level of power, another system would have failed.
11 It could have been vandalized in a much more 12 sophisticated manner. And this is very serious. If 13 you have a program that's failed, public health and 14 safety is at risk. That's the bottom line.
15 If we have a Three Mile Island incident 16 here, and there is a release of radiation, then we're 17 not going to be coming back to our homes. We live in 18 this area, and we like coming back to our homes, so we 19 depend on the NRC to constantly monitor the activities 20 of these plants in such a way that protects our health 21 and safety. And, right now, that's not being done.
22 When I attended the performance meeting 23 held by Region II, they gave them green lights across 24 the board, green, green, green, green, green.
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33 1 problems at this nuclear plant. It's unbelievable 2 comments in the light of what's progressed over the 3 last couple of years over there, with the hole being 4 drilled, security guards sleeping, security guards 5 covering for sleeping security guards, security guards 6 disassembling their weapons, nuclear engineer 7 violating a procedure willfully, licensee denying the 8 willfulness of these security violations, and the fact 9 that the violation even existed. All these things 10 transpiring at a couple of nuclear plants licensed by 11 the NRC where there is a failed Employee Concerns 12 Program, people -- the public should be gravely 13 concerned about their health and safety, at this 14 point, because no one knows if there is a safety 15 concern out there that hasn't been reported, because 16 people -- due to the hostile work environment. I'm 17 telling you, right now, and people are scared to raise 18 safety complaints. And, on top of that, you have an 19 Employee Concerns Program which is a failed program, 20 where there is absolutely no training across the 21 board, a pervasively failed program, where no one is 22 being trained. And there are plenty of examples to 23 that extent.
24 Okay. On page 26 of this report of SEC 25 Document 3, Exhibit 3, it says, "Another example of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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34 1 event-based investigative focus contained in the 2 report of a substantiated concern involving the 3 chilling behavior of a supervisor." It goes on to say 4 that, "The report noted some of the interviewees had 5 mentioned that the performance of this supervisor had 6 been called into question before." So, then it says, 7 "Did you have a problem with a supervisor?" It says, 8 "Chilling behavior. Supervisor did something that was 9 very what's called aberrant, aberrant behavior is a 10 concern that should raise the eyebrows of the NRC, 11 because this is a nuclear plant." If you have a 12 supervisor acting in an aberrant manner, then that's a 13 big red flag.
14 So, they found this guy, this male, 15 female, whoever, supervisor acted this way before.
16 Other people have seen this supervisor act in this 17 manner, and this team of licensee -- this licensee's 18 team is doing this ECP review, and in their view it 19 was chilling behavior. So, that just emphasizes again 20 the negative and hostile retaliatory work environment 21 at that facility, at the Turkey Point Nuclear Power 22 Plant.
23 The next page, page 27 talked about, 24 "There's recurring concern expressed by station 25 personnel in various forms. The perception is ECP is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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35 1 either unwilling or unable to maintain 2 confidentiality." And then it says, "This issue is 3 evidenced not only from a number of interviews 4 described previously in this report, but has been 5 extensively documented in previous inspections and 6 surveys dating back, the 2005 survey, the 2006 survey, 7 NRC problem identification and resolution inspection, 8 and in January of 2007, and in July 2007 when the NRC 9 did a PINR inspection." And it goes on to say, "The 10 problem" -- this says, "The team is not aware of 11 significant efforts underway to address the problem, 12 or relay the problem, underlying issues appears to 13 have gone unnoticed, and the ineffectiveness of 14 previous corrective actions." Meaning, the licensee 15 was aware of this dating back to 2005. I've mentioned 16 this point before. "They're aware of this deficiency, 17 that there's a problem with the confidentiality, with 18 the ECP program. They known about this for now over 19 four years, and the problem has not been resolved."
20 And it's been, again, documented here, so this is a 21 big red flag that the licensee's program has failed.
22 I'm going to move on to page 23 of this 23 exhibit, at the bottom of page 23 are some 24 conclusionary statements. "These efforts to prevent 25 the perception of retaliation have not been NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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36 1 effective." Now, how could they? No one even knows 2 who this guy is, or what he does. They don't even 3 know what his name is. No one is given any training 4 from the nuclear worker, and all the way up through 5 management. So, it's no reason that the conclusion is 6 that there is a perception that there's no effort to 7 prevent retaliation. In fact, retaliation has 8 occurred at that plant. They forced the resignation 9 of a senior nuclear plant operator because he had 10 safety concerns in restarting a nuclear reactor, and 11 he had numerous other safety concerns this individual 12 had raised during his employment there. And it got to 13 a point where they were challenging his NRC license, 14 because is a licensed operator. So, they were 15 challenging his license and ordering him to restart 16 this reactor. And it's coming from Bill Jefferson, 17 the Plant Manager. Bill Jefferson, being perceived by 18 a Senior Nuclear Plant Operator, is retaliating 19 against him because he wants to operate the plant in 20 conformance with his own NRC license, plus the plant's 21 license, of course.
22 At the bottom of that page, again, it 23 says, "Some station personnel expressed a concern that 24 ECP is unable to prevent retaliation." It is. It's 25 unable to prevent retaliation, because, again, there NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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37 1 is no training. People aren't aware of the program.
2 Managers aren't trained, supervisors aren't trained.
3 Therefore, if there is retaliation going on, no one 4 knows that what they're doing is wrong. Managers 5 don't know, the supervisors don't know that they're 6 not supposed to act this way to a nuclear worker, and 7 that's a violation of NRC requirements and regulation 8 at 10 CFR 50.7, because they weren't trained. They 9 have no idea, they have no concept.
10 I've worked at that nuclear plant, believe 11 me, and I stayed in touch with a lot of people there 12 over the years. There's a lot of good quality people 13 there. But I don't care how good you are, how 14 professional you are, how many degrees you have, how 15 many years experience you have, if you aren't trained 16 in a specific area, or specific function, you're not 17 knowledgeable. And you're going to make missteps, and 18 the licensee, management, supervisors have made 19 missteps, and continue to make missteps, and will 20 continue to make missteps in retaliating against 21 nuclear workers because they have not been trained 22 otherwise. This is very, very serious.
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38 1 licensed facilities, and formed this team. They fired 2 him. They fired him right after he turned this report 3 in to FPL management and NRC. So, think about that.
4 People know who Paul Insanger was out there. He's 5 well liked, professional individual, probably 15 or 6 more years in the industry. He was fired right after 7 he submitted this report. Because why? This report 8 puts FPL, puts the licensee in a bad light to the NRC.
9 And the individual doesn't have a job there anymore.
10 His co-workers know he doesn't have a job there 11 anymore, and they know that he was the main author 12 behind this report. And they know that FPL was made 13 aware of this report, and NRC was made aware of this 14 report. That just goes to instill the hostility and 15 the retaliatory work environment at the Turkey Point 16 plant. That's probably one of the most serious 17 nuclear safety concerns that this PRB will ever hear.
18 The licensee -- the manager gets fired for engaging 19 the licensee on the failure of their ECP. It's just 20 an incredible, incredible event.
21 Okay. Page 41 of this document at the 22 third paragraph down, talks about, "Management 23 attention to the EC program did not meet expectations.
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39 1 emphasized with their employees. The ECP facility was 2 of low quality, and did not give the impression of 3 being important to management. Two of the items we've 4 previously talked about, three of the items we've 5 talked about. "There is a perception problem with the 6 ECP in the areas of confidentiality, and potential 7 retribution", the report goes on to say. So, again, 8 people do not feel that their complaining about safety 9 complaints will be kept confidential, and they 10 certainly feel that they'll be retaliated against if 11 they use this program.
12 "Previous surveys and assessments have 13 identified this perception, but little or no progress 14 has been made in reversing this perception." I mean, 15 they knew about it. The licensee has known about this 16 for the better part of four or five years. Nobody has 17 done anything about it, to correct it, so the program 18 continues to be a failed program.
19 Then at the very end it says, "A large 20 percentage of concerns submitted anonymously hampers 21 feedback to individuals." This is a very, very 22 critical and important statement for the NRC to 23 analyze. What they're saying here is, our licensee 24 employees, including management, supervisors, they can 25 raise safety complaints anonymously if they fear NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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40 1 retaliation. Because, you know, if you do it 2 anonymously, no one is supposed to know who you are, 3 so how can you be retaliated against, if you're doing 4 this anonymously? Well, the licensee is saying here 5 that there's a lot of people filing complaints 6 anonymously. So, number one, that raises a red flag, 7 should raise a red flag to the NRC saying well, these 8 people were fearing retaliation, because everybody 9 wants to be anonymous. If you didn't fear 10 retaliation, you just go up to your supervisor, you go 11 up to your manager, or if you're a manager you go to 12 your next level of management and say look, this 13 indicator over here on the control board, you know, 14 doesn't look right to me. It's supposed to indicate 15 this, it's indicating this. We may have a problem 16 with the pressure coming out of this pump, whatever.
17 And let me know how you make out on this. That's not 18 happening. No, no, no. People are trying to secretly 19 submit their concerns because, like I say, the people 20 at Turkey Point facility are very excellent workers.
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41 1 and their kids go to the same schools as the people 2 who live in the area. But, on the other hand, they 3 don't want to take that complaint directly to 4 management or NRC, because if they get found out, 5 they're going to lose their job. They're going to in 6 some way get retaliated against.
7 In the past, they've seen Gino Urbanos, 8 who was a nuclear engineer, he got discriminated 9 against. He got fired. He was a nuclear plant 10 operator, he got demoted, failed to get a promotion.
11 They were cited on both of those occasions by the NRC 12 as retaliation. How many retaliatory issues does the 13 NRC Region II, that they're not even aware of over the 14 last 20 years? Numerous ones. Go to the DOL website, 15 there's been many DOL complaints filed. Now, it's 16 very hard to prosecute a DOL complaint under 42 USC 17 58.51, because when you're economically damaged by an 18 employment action by FPL, you get fired, the 19 attorneys, they want $10,000 minimum before they're 20 even going to talk to you. You got $10,000? Sit 21 down, I want to talk to you. You don't have $10,000 -
22 - well, why don't you go see Joe Blow down the street 23 here. He might be able to help you out. You're just 24 left twisting in the wind.
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42 1 workers at Turkey Point decided to go rob a bank down 2 there in Homestead, God forbid, but they decided to 3 rob a bank and they got caught, first thing the 4 Department of Justice does is appoint the individual 5 an attorney free of charge if you're economically 6 disadvantaged. Free of charge. You can rob a bank, 7 you can get represented by this government. You can 8 raise a nuclear safety complaint, get fired, and 9 you're on your own.
10 Anyway, back to this report, on page 41.
11 "A large number of employees are using the program 12 anonymously, and the licensee is saying that that 13 hampers their ability to provide feedback." Well, 14 that's a ridiculous statement, because if the program 15 was set up correctly, and properly managed, and 16 operated, you can have employees raise concerns 17 anonymously. You can identify those concerns with a 18 number, enumerate them, FPL B you can have the 19 Employee Concerns forms somewhere out there in the 20 plant. And they're all numbered with an FPL number, 21 or a Turkey Point number, TPN 0002. And these forms 22 could be throughout the plant, different boxes, 23 Employee Concerns stations, and people can on the fly 24 pick these up. And, hell, the licensee could mandate 25 and require all supervisors, managers, and nuclear NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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43 1 workers to have one of these forms. They should be 2 everywhere. There should be no -- you shouldn't have 3 to tiptoe around the rose bushes to find one of these 4 forms, and try to get one secretly. They should be 5 everywhere, so that everybody has access to them, so 6 that if you want to raise a concern anonymously, you 7 have the form already. It's enumerated. When it goes 8 into the little locked box, or however they want to 9 get it to the Employee Concerns manager, that manager 10 has a document with a nuclear safety concern on it 11 from an individual that he has no idea who it is, but 12 it's enumerated. So that nuclear safety concern can 13 be readily identified. It could be investigated. It 14 can be corrected, if need be. And, in any event, when 15 final resolution is achieved by the licensee, that 16 nuclear safety complaint can be posted publicly at the 17 nuclear facility on another FPL form with that FPL 18 tag. This is Turkey Point Nuclear Safety Concern 19 Number 2. It doesn't identify anybody, but, guess 20 what, it gives feedback to the guy or girl who raised 21 the safety concern, because they know. It could be a 22 tri-part form. They kept the last part before they 23 turned it in. Their part says it's Concern Number 2, 24 and this is my concern they're talking about. And 25 here's what they did about it.
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44 1 Not only does that instill confidence in 2 the individual who used the program, whose safety 3 complaint was looked at by FPL and investigated, 4 whether it was validated or not, it shows the employee 5 that FPL took his concern, his or her concern 6 seriously. There was an effort made to investigate 7 it, and to resolve it one way or another. And it was 8 posted, so the employee knows that it was done. And 9 his or her co-workers see that a concern was raised.
10 FPL took the following actions, and here's final 11 resolution. And that's the way the program could be 12 run, and should be run to address those individuals 13 who want to remain anonymous. So, don't tell me, 14 being the licensee, don't tell me, FPL, that this 15 hampers your ability to provide feedback to 16 individuals. That's totally absurd. That's a failed 17 analysis by this team, who did this report. And it's 18 a failed conclusion by the licensee, itself. So that 19 should be a separate concern with the NRC, to the 20 extent that the licensee can't even manage their ECP 21 program, which is a failed program to begin with.
22 The next page, page 42 down here it talks 23 about -- Paragraph 2, "Weakness", there's a number 3 24 after it. Talks about the quality of the Employee 25 Concerns office. It says -- it talks about, "The NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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45 1 appearance of the office is such" -- it's a poor 2 appearance. It doesn't give the appearance that 3 management is serious about the program, or that 4 management is going to expend any amount of resources 5 to enhance and operate the Employee Concerns Program.
6 We talked about that before.
7 Hello? Are we still on the line here?
8 (Chorus of yeses.)
9 MR. SAPORITO: Okay. I'm sorry. It must 10 have been my phone.
11 So, again, the perception problem 12 certainly needs to be addressed. And you've got to 13 start with providing professional building office area 14 for the ECP Coordinator or Manager to work from. And 15 they do need some help, whether it's a male or female, 16 the person needs at least one secretary, some help.
17 You need to look -- the NRC needs to look at the 18 program from an operational perspective, first of all, 19 or the use of computers if they -- as their filing 20 system, and how do they manage it? Is it an 21 electronic filing system? How is it managed? Is it a 22 paper system? How is it managed? Where are all these 23 things kept, and how -- you need to interview the ECP 24 coordinator. How are you operating your program? Are 25 you out there talking to people? Are you making NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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46 1 yourself known? Do you interface with management, 2 interface with supervisors, interface with first-level 3 workers, craft? Do you attend meetings? If people 4 give you a concern, what do you do? How are you 5 keeping it confidential, if they want to be 6 confidential? If you investigate, how it is being 7 investigated? Do you turn it over to quality team, 8 people that have specific experience? If an 9 operations concern, do you have a -- do you have a 10 licensed plant operator as part of a three or four-11 member team to address it? If it is an operations 12 problem, and it involves a piece of equipment, motor-13 operated valve, do you have an electrician on this 14 team? Do you have a mechanic on this team? Licensing 15 department on this team?
16 One individual cannot effectively manage 17 the entire program by themself, so you have two 18 nuclear plants out there. One individual cannot 19 investigate the volume of safety complaints that are 20 out there. One individual certainly is not qualified 21 to address the array of nuclear safety complaints that 22 come in nuclear plants to the extent the individual is 23 not a licensed operator himself. What is his 24 background, electrical, mechanical? No one possesses 25 all those skills to, in a sufficient quantity or NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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47 1 quality to ascertain, and validate any nuclear safety 2 complaint. He needs teams at his disposal, he or she 3 needs teams at their disposal so that when they get 4 safety complaints, these teams are already in place.
5 Here's one, operational nuclear safety concern.
6 Here's a mechanical maintenance nuclear safety 7 complaint. Here's a health physics nuclear safety 8 complaint.
9 The team analyzes the complaint, 10 investigates the complaint, makes their preliminary 11 findings. He can review it with the team, and then 12 they can decide on resolution, and then feedback to 13 the individual bringing it about. But as it exists, 14 the entire program, the overall program is a failed 15 Employee Concerns Program. It is a failed program.
16 This only a sampling of 27 people, and 17 there is no managers, or no supervisors in this 18 sample. So, the baseline -- there is no baseline, 19 first of all, for this particular self-assessment.
20 Other self-assessments will show you the same. And, 21 therefore, the baseline for the entire -- the last 22 five, ten, fifteen, twenty years, there is no baseline 23 of what the environment is out there at Turkey Point 24 Nuclear Station.
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48 1 request a modification of licensee's -- to order the 2 licensee to have valid self-assessment done. And you 3 need to have an outside entity, someone outside of 4 FPL's business relationship to come in there and do a 5 self-assessment. You have to -- if you're going to do 6 a baseline, a valid baseline, you need to talk to I 7 would say 100 percent of the people. You need to talk 8 to 100 percent of the people out there to get your 9 first valid baseline. You need to be talking to Lou 10 Hays and get his understanding, how serious is he in 11 operating nuclear power plants under his authority.
12 You need to talk to J.A. Stall, certainly. And to the 13 licensing attorneys, Blair and Ross, get their 14 understanding of how serious are they about 15 implementing a valid program, something that's going 16 to work. And then you need to interview the entire 17 population at that facility, the Turkey Point Nuclear 18 Plant. And that's your baseline.
19 From there, you can start. But this is --
20 this program is garbage. This is a major and 21 significant nuclear safety concern that the NRC should 22 be very concerned about, very gravely concerned about.
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49 1 representing to the public at its recent meeting that 2 everything is green at the Turkey Point Plant.
3 Everything is safe. The plant is running just fine.
4 Where was the NRC over the last 20 years? Why did the 5 NRC Region II allow these plants' work environments to 6 degrade to this degree? That's what the OIG should be 7 looking into.
8 Okay. The next document we're going to 9 look at is SEC Number 4, Exhibit 4. It's a "Miami 10 Herald" news article entitled, "Court papers reveal 11 nuclear feud at Turkey Point". It's dated March 12th, 12 2009. And page 1 of this document talks about this 13 fellow I mentioned earlier, David Hoffman. He's a 14 Senior Nuclear Plant Operator, and he's a licensed 15 individual. He holds a license from the NRC separate 16 and apart from FPL's operating license as DRP-31 and 17 41, which regard the operation of those two nuclear 18 reactors.
19 Mr. Hoffman -- well, he happened to be on 20 duty on February 26th, 2008, when another engineer at 21 one of the FPL substations obviously violated, 22 apparently violated a procedure, maintenance 23 procedure. He pulled some relays he shouldn't have.
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50 1 both nuclear reactors at the Turkey Point facility 2 automatically as a safety function of that system.
3 And Mr. Hoffman was in charge. He was the senior 4 nuclear power operator. And, yet, all his safety 5 concerns about starting this reactor in less than 12 6 hours6.944444e-5 days <br />0.00167 hours <br />9.920635e-6 weeks <br />2.283e-6 months <br /> were cast aside by plant management. He was 7 brushed aside. People from Juno Beach were apparently 8 sent down there, and given orders. And he got very 9 concerned about safety. He had safety concerns 10 before. They apparently weren't addressed, and now 11 his authority has been usurped by people from the Juno 12 facility. And the licensee, being FPL, and through, I 13 would imagine, Bill Jefferson, the Plant Manager, 14 wanted to get this reactor started back up within 12 15 hours1.736111e-4 days <br />0.00417 hours <br />2.480159e-5 weeks <br />5.7075e-6 months <br />. So, the licensee sets a time table. We want 16 this reactor restarted within 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br />.
17 Well, think about that. You're putting 18 your operations department on a time line now. It 19 doesn't matter what happened, doesn't matter what the 20 status of that nuclear reactor is at the core when the 21 neutron flux in that reactor, whatever it did when 22 these reactors scrammed, and whether it was too much 23 Xenon in there, or displacement of the flux within 24 that core, or the status of any of the equipment that 25 was involved in the significant action of a nuclear NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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51 1 reactor scram. No matter what, we want this reactor 2 started within 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br />. Okay? So, you're putting 3 your -- the licensee is putting plant operations in a 4 very precarious position to look at changing their 5 focus from the safety aspects of what just happened, 6 to let's get this reactor back on. Let's make our 7 million dollars a day. It's an economic consideration 8 over safety, licensee is putting money over safety.
9 And they're doing it in a very direct, and forceful 10 manner. They're having their management from their 11 corporate offices, Juno Beach rush down there and take 12 over, brushing away Mr. Hoffman, who was in charge, 13 who knows how to operate a nuclear reactor. He was 14 hired to do so by FPL for many years. And brushing 15 him aside, and all his authority, and all his 16 insights, and you're saying we want a time line, and 17 we're going to have this reactor back up in less than 18 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br />.
19 That is a nuclear safety concern, in and 20 of itself, putting your operations department in such 21 a precarious position. So, Hoffman got to the point 22 well, this is it. I'm out of here. You're going to 23 jeopardize my NRC license. The guy's got a family.
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52 1 leaves. He resigns, and he resigns on the cusp of 2 having raised a significant nuclear safety concern to 3 management, who just brushed it aside, and brushed him 4 aside, all in the name of economics, to get the plant 5 back on line.
6 Page 2 of that news report, you have a 7 statement by this fellow, Tom Veenstra. He represents 8 Florida Power and Light as their spokesman. He 9 represents the licensee. He's making a statement to 10 the public. And he's quoted as say, "Without 11 exception, the safety of our customers, communities, 12 employees is always FPL's top priority at Turkey 13 Point, and all of our facilities. The facts clearly 14 show this case is totally without merit, having 15 nothing to do with safety, but rather, one 16 individual's attempt to improperly keep a retention 17 payment that he chose to forfeit."
18 That's the most outrageous, and 19 incompetent statement I've ever heard from any 20 manager, or any spokesman for the Florida Power and 21 Light Company. That is outrageous, and it's totally 22 contradicted by the actual events that happened 23 concerning Mr. Hoffman. And it's contradicted by the 24 Employee Concerns Program report we just went through.
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53 1 the safety of their customers and communities, and 2 their employees. That's not always their top 3 priority. Their top priority is restarting this 4 reactor as fast, within 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br />. Their top priority 5 isn't maintaining the facilities for the Employee 6 Concerns Program. No, let's just get them a fricken 7 trailer out somewhere back there. You know what, put 8 a camera on it. I want to know who's coming in and 9 out of there. And make sure it's a heavily traveled 10 area, in case somebody sees them. We want somebody to 11 see who's going in there. That's FPL's top priority, 12 making money. So, this statement is just totally 13 outrageous. And that's how they retaliate. This is 14 retaliation against Hoffman, because he -- Hoffman.
15 Yes, he was paid a big amount of money, like all the 16 people. We're going to get that, all these nuclear 17 workers down there are paid a big bunch of money by 18 FPL because no one wants to work there. Believe me.
19 Everybody in the nuclear industry knows how bad it is 20 at Turkey Point, everybody. All the other nuclear 21 plants know how bad it is at Turkey Point, so to get 22 anybody to work there, you're going to have to pay 23 them a lot of money. And if you pay somebody a lot of 24 money, they're going to say oh, if I have to work 25 there, I could probably stick it out for three years, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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54 1 and I'll maybe get my house paid off. I mean, that's 2 the only incentive, that's the only reason that people 3 like Hoffman, who are professionals, would go to 4 Turkey Point, to begin with. So, the fact that 5 they're saying oh, you know, Hoffman is just trying to 6 get out of his bonus payment. That's totally 7 frivolous. That's totally without merit, and it's a 8 misrepresentation to the public of what's really going 9 on at Turkey Point.
10 The report goes on to say that, according 11 to this reporter, "29.2 percent", and they're talking 12 about the Employee Concerns Program -- it says, "The 13 Employee Concerns Program found that one in four, 29.2 14 percent disagreed with the following statement. `I am 15 confident that nuclear safety and quality issues 16 reported to the ECP are thoroughly investigated, and 17 appropriately resolved.' More than one in three agree 18 with this statement. `I can use the ECP without fear 19 of retaliation." So, here again, you have a reporter 20 that apparently reviewed this report, and even the 21 layman can see that there's a problem, where people 22 fear retaliation using the Employee Concerns Program 23 at Turkey Point. And they don't believe that the 24 issues that they raise in that facility are going to 25 be resolved. So, you know, this is -- it just NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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55 1 exemplifies in layman's terms. It's a news reporter 2 who can take this report, and see the inherent 3 problems with it.
4 The next exhibit, Exhibit 5, is a Miami 5 News article, "Silence clause aims to keep Turkey 6 Point workers quiet". It's dated March 12th of 2009.
7 Page 1 of this document, if you go down to the fourth 8 paragraph, it says, "One reason" -- they're talking 9 about "virtually, all operators are reluctant to talk 10 to journalists. One reason is that many signed bonus 11 agreements, which they promise not to say anything 12 bad." It's supposedly quoted in the bonus agreement 13 that, "The employee shall not at any time in the 14 future, and in any way, make any statements that may 15 be derogatory or detrimental to the company's good 16 name." And the reporter is saying, this is the way 17 that the document was phrased on the contract of 18 employment agreement that David Hoffman signed. So, 19 these employment agreements where FPL is paying 20 operators, and health physics technicians, and non-21 licensed operators, and other craft a lot of money to 22 come work at it's Turkey Point Nuclear Plant. And 23 they require them to sign these agreements.
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56 1 require the employee to sign saying they won't make 2 any statements that are derogatory or detrimental to 3 the company's good name, because it precludes them 4 from raising safety complaints at that facility, at 5 the Turkey Point facility. And that is a direct 6 violation of 10 CFR 50.7. I mean, there is no if, 7 ands, or buts about it, that is inherently 8 discriminatory, and inherently in violation of NRC 9 requirements and regulations under 10 CFR 50.7.
10 But, FPL Spokesman, Tom Veenstra, in this 11 report is quoted as saying that, "The utility 12 vigorously encourages any one at any of our nuclear 13 power plants, or our other facilities, to identify 14 safety concerns without fearing reprisal of any kind."
15 Well, that is totally false. I mean, their own self-16 assessment contradicts that statement by Mr. Veenstra, 17 and they're making this to the public, again. They're 18 misleading the public.
19 The fact of the matter is that FPL doesn't 20 vigorously encourage anyone. They don't even train 21 people about their nuclear safety concerns program.
22 If you don't train people, how are you going to 23 encourage them? I mean, it's just -- it's totally 24 ridiculous. And there was -- FPL is a huge company.
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57 1 Generation, and FPL or something. They renamed it.
2 But, anyway, they have other power plants that are 3 licensed by the NRC, and I just want the PRB to make 4 note of a document dated December 22nd, 2008. It's 5 FPL's response to an NRC enforcement action, EA 6 178, regarding the safety culture of the Point Beach 7 Nuclear Plant, that the NRC inspected and found the 8 safety culture to be very, very poor. And, actually 9 modified FPL's license to operate that plant in such a 10 way as to correct the work environment there. So, 11 where you have an FPL spokesman, Tom Veenstra, saying 12 that we vigorously encourage anyone working at any of 13 our nuclear power plants, or other facilities, to 14 identify safety concerns without fearing reprisal of 15 any kind, is totally false, totally misleads the 16 public. And it's contradicted by the ECP, and it's 17 contradicted by the fact that the NRC cited another 18 nuclear facility operated by FPL, because they have a 19 work environment that doesn't encourage employees to 20 raise safety concerns without fear of reprisal. That's 21 what you're dealing with here. You have a licensee 22 who denies everything. They deny all violations, they 23 deny there's nothing wrong with our facility, and it's 24 a mess.
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58 1 entitled, "Amid nuclear worker shortage, FPL says it's 2 following the rules", dated March 12th, 2009. Page 1 3 of this document, third paragraph down, talks about, 4 "In the first six weeks of 2008, the Nuclear 5 Regulatory Commission found that the Florida Power and 6 Plant Nuclear Plants had 21 overtime deviations, 17 7 plant operators that worked more than 72 hours8.333333e-4 days <br />0.02 hours <br />1.190476e-4 weeks <br />2.7396e-5 months <br /> a week, 8 which exceeds the maximum allowed, and that two of 9 those workers were involved in a spill of 200 gallons 10 of boric acid used to control the nuclear reaction in 11 the core."
12 At the bottom of that document there's a 13 couple of paragraphs that talks about, "The NRC 14 Chairman, himself, Dale Klein, he visited Turkey 15 Point, and then he spoke with journalists. And he 16 talked about "how furiously understaffed the facility 17 was." This is dated March 12th, 2009. But this 18 reported document that Mr. Klein visited the facility 19 last year, so this is approximately one year dated.
20 He's talking about the serious under staffing. And 21 Mr. Klein was quoted by this reporter as saying, "This 22 is the first time I've delivered a message of this 23 magnitude on a plant's human performance issues." And 24 then he's quoted again as saying, "A lot of operators 25 are complaining about the overtime they do." And he NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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59 1 says, "FPL was way behind in filling openings, and its 2 training programs weren't sufficient."
3 Well, the NRC -- the Commissioner, the 4 Chairman of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission is 5 telling the public that it's an overtime issue, 6 because Turkey Point Nuclear Power Plants are being 7 overworked. They're working numerous hours, and that 8 he's personally coming down to the plant here. He 9 personally came there, admonished them about it, 10 because he's serious about it. He's concerned for 11 public health and safety. But the fact of the matter 12 is, FPL has failed training programs, is what the 13 Commissioner said. And we already talked about their 14 failed training programs with the ECP. He's talking 15 about now failed training programs regarding plant 16 operators. The fact that there aren't enough 17 operators. You're working too much overtime. But 18 even though it's an overtime issue, it also deals with 19 training, failed training program at the licensee's 20 plant. And it also deals with the situation, 21 extensive overtime, 72 hours a week, extensive 22 overtime takes away from the overall work environment 23 at Turkey Point Nuclear facility. And there can be no 24 if, ands, or buts about it. I've worked at that 25 facility. I've worked seven days a week, ten, twelve NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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60 1 or more hours a day, and you're just a zombie down 2 there. So, it takes away from the work environment, 3 believe me. And Mr. Klein was perfectly correct that 4 there's a very serious problem here.
5 The next document is SEC Exhibit 7. It's 6 a "Miami Herald" news article entitled, "At the heart 7 of Turkey Point plant worker's unrest overtime", March 8 12th, 2009 is the date of it. And, again, the second, 9 the third and fourth paragraph is talking about the 10 core issues involved, bonuses, which operators could 11 get $40,000 or $50,000 a year in addition to their 12 regular salary, which can easily run over $100,000 13 with overtime. Overtime is important at Turkey Point, 14 because there is so much of it. The lawsuit said that 15 most operators, an average work week is sixty or 16 seventy hours more."
17 What you have here is a news article 18 related to a lawsuit filed by at least 20 operators at 19 Turkey Point Nuclear Power Plant regarding overtime 20 issues, and the way that FPL allocates the overtime 21 with respect to the Department of Labor rules and 22 regulations in that regard. But, the only reason I 23 bring this to the PRB's attention, again, because it 24 deals with overtime. It deals with the fact that FPL 25 is paying large monetary bonuses to recruit workers, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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61 1 and to force workers to stay at Turkey Point Nuclear 2 Power Plant. And those two issues, again, go to 3 illustrate the poor work environment at the Turkey 4 Point Nuclear Power Plant facility.
5 People don't want to work there. People 6 know you get retaliated against. You raise safety 7 complaints, they know how bad it is down there.
8 Money, that's the only reason FPL is offering this 9 money, is to get these people down there for at least 10 three years.
11 The next exhibit, SEC Exhibit 8, an 12 "Associated Press" article entitled, "Ex-Worker of 13 Florida Power Company puts safety second". It's dated 14 March 14th, 2009. And it talks about Hoffman again.
15 It says Hoffman or FPL's B and he's quoted saying, 16 "Horrible management". He was quoted as saying in his 17 resignation letter to Bill Jefferson. And, Hoffman, 18 of course, he hired an attorney. He's suing FPL 19 because FPL is wanting to get back their bonus pay 20 they gave him. And they're claiming that's the only 21 reason that he quit. He's trying to weasel out of 22 this payment. But according to Hoffman's attorney, 23 this guy, Joe Hackney, he said that his client's case 24 was the, "tip of the iceberg."
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62 1 in the know, because he's talking to Hoffman. That's 2 his client, and witnesses that are involved in the 3 Hoffman case, and whatnot. The attorney is saying 4 it's the tip of the iceberg. So, the NRC should be 5 very concerned. That's a red flag to the NRC that 6 there's many, many other issues regarding safety, and 7 the environment at that plant that are going to be 8 coming out.
9 And just a point of record here, one of 10 those plant operators, there's 20 operators, I think 11 the name is Klein, I think it's Mark Klein. There's 12 another document that references the name, so I can 13 identify that later. But he told this reporter that 14 people are retaliated against when they raise safety 15 concerns at Turkey Point Nuclear Plant. And he's 16 working there right now. He's an operator, licensed 17 operator, so Region II, you might want to look into 18 that.
19 Okay. The next exhibit, SEC 9 is a "Miami 20 Herald" news article entitled, "Turkey Point Nuclear 21 Operator Response to Miami Herald Article." It's 22 dated March 14th, 2009. This is Hoffman. He 23 responded to the news article. I guess the one that 24 said there's a feud going down there, a nuclear feud 25 at Turkey Point. But, anyway, he's quoted here about NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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63 1 the third, fourth paragraph down. He said, "FPL has 2 chosen to continue to neglect the environment created 3 at Turkey Point regarding the retaliatory nature of 4 the management team in place. Multiple examples of 5 this inappropriate behavior will continue to be 6 presented as the lawsuit moves forward."
7 So, remember my earlier comment about his 8 attorney saying this is just the tip of the iceberg.
9 Well, here, this is the iceberg, Hoffman is telling 10 you what the iceberg is. There is retaliation, there 11 is a hostile work environment at Turkey Point Nuclear 12 Plant. There's going to be witnesses testify to that 13 effect. Some of the NRC should be very concerned 14 about it.
15 The last paragraph talks about, "As the 16 Senior Licensed Operator with the NRC who was charted 17 to safely operate the nuclear power plant, while 18 insuring the health and safety of the public, I left 19 FPL when I was no longer allowed to satisfy these 20 requirements."
21 That's what the -- Dave Hoffman. That's 22 what that Senior Nuclear Power Operator had to say.
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64 1 with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and the DRP-2 31, 41, which are licenses FPL holds with the Nuclear 3 Regulatory Commission, David Hoffman is saying he 4 can no longer maintain the -- to work at the Turkey 5 Point facility, because he can't work where there is a 6 safety environment which it's required, where he'd get 7 his safety concerns acknowledged, addressed, and 8 resolved to protect public health and safety. So, 9 he's saying there's a retaliatory work environment.
10 That's what that -- he's telling the public here 11 through this reporter.
12 And, again, I go back to Region II 13 presentation a week or so ago to the public, that 14 everything at Turkey Point is fine. We give them 15 green across the board. The Region II Administrator, 16 he never even attended the meeting. I guess it's not 17 important to him. It's not important to him to 18 interface with the public, and all the concerns that 19 were raised at that meeting.
20 He should have been there giving answers 21 to myself, and to other members of the public who have 22 some serious safety issues that they're bringing to 23 Region II. And many of those issues weren't -- there 24 was no answer. I guess, people that were representing 25 Region II at the time were going to look into it, and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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65 1 didn't have an answer available at that time. But 2 they said everything is green. I think that's a gross 3 misrepresentation what's actually happening at Turkey 4 Point Nuclear Power Plant.
5 And to the extent that OIG is going to be 6 reviewing these transcripts, OIG needs to look into 7 how regions, like NRC Region II, interface with the 8 public. And they should be more -- there should be 9 more sunshine. There should be more transparency.
10 The NRC should say we cited them these violations. We 11 sent a guy in there. They found guards sleeping on 12 the job. They found guards covering up for other 13 guards. They found guards taking their weapons apart.
14 And this is what we did about it. And this is where 15 that situation is now. Yes, we know Hoffman resigned 16 after this reactor scram, and we're looking at it, and 17 this is where we are now.
18 No, they didn't do any of that stuff.
19 It's just dancing around this silly report, these 20 White findings, and Green findings, and Orange 21 findings. And hell, the public don't know what the 22 hell they're talking about. All they hear is the NRC 23 thinks everything is fine out there.
24 MR. BLOUNT: Excuse me, Mr. Saporito.
25 MR. SAPORITO: Yes.
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66 1 MR. BLOUNT: Just to let you know, we're 2 coming up on an hour and a half. You've got about 10 3 minutes left.
4 MR. SAPORITO: Okay. Thank you.
5 MR. BLOUNT: Yes.
6 MR. SAPORITO: All right. So, SEC Number 7 10, I just want to get through these, so I'm going to 8 go a little faster here. An article talking about 9 FPL's response to the Turkey Point story. And this is 10 by Bill Jefferson. He's the Turkey Point Site Vice 11 President. Everything he says in this report, I'm not 12 going to read it to you. You can read it for 13 yourselves. But everything it says is contradicted by 14 the documents we've already reviewed, and the Employee 15 Concerns Program itself. And by statements made by 16 Hoffman in those reports, so that's why I put that in 17 there. He's trying to make the public think that 18 everything is fine. It's really not.
19 The next exhibit, SEC Number 11, this 20 talks about the David Hoffman lawsuit. But, 21 specifically, the first page. If you go down to the 22 dotted paragraph, there's are safety concerns that 23 Hoffman raised. Okay? And that's the reason he quit.
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67 1 quit, but all these incidents he didn't think were 2 getting resolved.
3 But there's a paragraph, the second one 4 from the bottom of that paragraph, says, "The 5 operating crews should never be placed in the position 6 to get the reactor startup completed under a time 7 pressure condition, which to me seem -- the IV 8 plotting requirements for the third doubling with a 9 rapidly changing Xenon condition. This lack of desire 10 to listen and act on input continues to force written 11 correspondence, and is a major contributor to why we 12 have an SCWD issue at the station. People are not 13 valued, and they're treated like equipment and 14 numbers."
15 What he's saying is, I raised these safety 16 complaints, including the one to restart this reactor, 17 and no one cares, no one listens. They want to get 18 the reactor back on line. We're nothing more than 19 equipment and numbers to this plant. Again, that goes 20 to the work environment.
21 The next couple of pages, this one is 22 entitled, "Counterclaim Count One-Retaliation", not 23 that one. I'm sorry. It's the next page following 24 that. It's Item 11 and 12, talks about, "The plant 25 manager insisted that Hoffman start the reactor", and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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68 1 it talks about Hoffman being put in the position of 2 being constructively discharged because he refused to 3 do something he thought was not safe. And, again, 4 that goes to the environment.
5 And on, this page is not numbered. Oh, 6 it's page 4 of 6 of the Retention Bonus Agreement, 7 Paragraph D. It says, "The employee shall not, at any 8 time in the future in any way disparage the company, 9 its related entities, or any current or former 10 officers, directors, and employees orally or in 11 writing, or make any statements that may be derogatory 12 or detrimental to the company's good name, or business 13 reputation, of that of its related entities." This is 14 the statement that Hoffman and all these nuclear 15 workers have to sign to get their bonus pay. This is 16 inherently discriminatory. It's inherently in 17 violation of 10 CFR 50.7.
18 The next, Exhibit 12 is just the Union's 19 Memorandum of Understanding. Again, it highlights the 20 amount of pay and the fact that it's across the board.
21 It's a pervasive bonus program to keep their nuclear 22 workers at Turkey Point. They don't even want them 23 transferring out of Turkey Point to another plant 24 owned or operated by FPL. They're paying them big 25 dollars, $40-50,000, to agree to stay at Turkey Point.
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69 1 It's because the environment is so poor there, they 2 have to offer these kind of bonuses.
3 The next document, SEC Exhibit 13. This 4 is the amended complaint. I don't have time to go 5 through this. It's pretty self-explanatory. But, 6 again, the reason I put it in there, it accentuates 7 issues concerning the environment at Turkey Point, the 8 poor environment.
9 SEC Number 14, again, this is a Memorandum 10 of Understanding. It talks about the bonuses. And 11 number 9 on the first page of it says, "Operators 12 execute the election agreement will not be eligible to 13 bid out of Turkey Point, TPN is Turkey Point 14 Operations Department prior to 2010." Again, the 15 environment is so bad, they want to pay you big 16 dollars, thousands, and thousands, and thousands of 17 dollars, and they don't even want you bidding out of 18 the department, let alone the plant.
19 Okay. The next document, SEC Number 15, 20 is FPL Motion to Dismiss. Again, I'm not going to go 21 through this document. This document said -- so the 22 PRB has some insight as to FLP's challenge to the 23 lawsuit.
24 And, SEC Number 16, I wrote a letter to 25 Louis Hay. He's the Executive Officer of FPL, the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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70 1 Chief Executive Officer. And I offered my services to 2 go in that plant, assess the environment, do a 3 baseline, put a training program together, talk to 4 employees, bring everybody up to speed what their 5 protections are, why you need to raise safety 6 concerns, how important it is, and their avenues of 7 protection within the Department of Labor, and how the 8 NRC investigates under 10 CFR 50.7.
9 He never responded, not even the courtesy 10 of a reply. So, you need -- in closing, I just want 11 to say that the petition asks for $1 million Notice of 12 Violation issues with a civil penalty. That's to get 13 their attention. Money talks. They don't care about 14 anything else. You've got to hit them with the money 15 first.
16 If you say send us $1 million, you're 17 going to get the attention of Lou Hays, believe me.
18 You're going to get the attention of Lou Hays. You're 19 going to get the attention of Stall. You're going to 20 get the attention of William Blair, and of Mitch Ross, 21 because $1 million is $1 million. And the public is 22 going to see that, as hey, the government is doing 23 something about safety at these plants.
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71 1 in here and do a baseline, do an assessment of the 2 Employee Concerns Program, and to make 3 recommendations, and require the licensee to make the 4 changes that are recommended, and to monitor that 5 program over the next 10, 15, 20 years.
6 So, if there's any questions, I'll be 7 certainly happy to answer them.
8 MR. BLOUNT: Thank you. Any questions 9 from the folks here at headquarters for Mr. Saporito?
10 Okay. How about the Region? Does the Region have 11 any questions for Mr. Saporito?
12 MR. SYKES: No. No, we don't.
13 MR. BLOUNT: Do we have any questions from 14 the licensee?
15 MR. BLAIR: Yes, if I may. I'll try to be 16 brief. This is William Blair from Florida Power and 17 Light.
18 Mr. Saporito, what specific rule, 19 regulation, or order are you alleging that Florida 20 Power and Light violated at Turkey Point?
21 MR. SAPORITO: Well, Mr. Blair, it's 22 pretty obvious that 10 CFR 50.7 has been violated over 23 the years at Turkey Point Nuclear Power Plant. It's a 24 matter of public record. The NRC has cited Florida 25 Power and Light twice to the extent that those NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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72 1 regulations have been violated. The fact that the 2 Turkey Point Nuclear facilities are being operated, in 3 my view, with a hostile work environment, and not in 4 full compliance with the requirement, the NRC 5 requirement to maintain a healthy work environment 6 which encourages employees to raise safety concerns 7 directly to the NRC, or directly to the licensee 8 management, or to the media, if they so desire, is a 9 violation of NRC requirements.
10 Because that, certainly, the work 11 environment there is nothing near, it's not even close 12 to complying with the NRC requirements to maintain 13 that type of environment, which encourages employees 14 to freely raise safety complaints without fear of 15 retaliation.
16 MR. BLAIR: All right. You've mentioned 17 the pressurizer piping hole incident. Mr. Saporito, 18 do you have any specific information as to the 19 individual that would have committed that act?
20 MR. SAPORITO: I reference the Public 21 Counsel's 13C brief. It's in that brief. There is an 22 FBI investigative report, an FBI Special Agent 23 conducted an investigation, apparently interviewed the 24 individual who drilled the hole. And I would point 25 you to the FBI for that specific information.
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73 1 MR. BLAIR: Okay. So, you have no 2 specific knowledge, other than what the FBI and NRC 3 looked at.
4 MR. SAPORITO: Well, yes, I do. If you --
5 I don't have all the pleadings in that Public Service 6 Commission hearing before me right at this time. And 7 it goes into quite specific detail about what 8 transpired when that hole was drilled.
9 MR. BLAIR: All right. I'll move on.
10 You went on at length about the ECP report 11 from January of 2008. Who performed that report?
12 MR. SAPORITO: That's proprietary, 13 confidential information at this time. I can't 14 release that to you.
15 MR. BLAIR: Well, do you know if there 16 were any corrective actions taken as a result of that 17 report?
18 MR. SAPORITO: Do I know what?
19 MR. BLAIR: If there were any corrective 20 actions taken as a result of that report?
21 MR. SAPORITO: No, I don't. I'm not 22 knowledgeable at this time if there was any corrective 23 action. In my view, whatever corrective actions that 24 may have been taken, were not sufficient to overcome 25 the overwhelming evidence which points to a failed NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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74 1 program.
2 MR. BLAIR: Right. I don't doubt that.
3 Do you know if the NRC inspects the safety conscious 4 work environment at Turkey Point?
5 MR. SAPORITO: I know they're supposed to.
6 I haven't followed the inspectors around at the plant 7 to monitor their actions.
8 MR. BLAIR: Thank you. You mentioned that 9 the Hoffman case, as well as Insanger, do you know if 10 those issues were raised those individuals to the NRC?
11 MR. SAPORITO: Do I know what?
12 MR. BLAIR: If those individuals raised 13 their concerns for themselves to the NRC?
14 MR. SAPORITO: I am under the 15 understanding, certain communications that the NRC 16 Office of Investigations, is conducting an 17 investigation of the Hoffman case.
18 MR. BLOUNT: At this point -- this is Tom 19 Blount, the PRB Chairman. I'd like to make sure that 20 we're directing our questions of the Petitioner to 21 clarifying the petition.
22 MR. BLAIR: I'm confused, quite frankly, 23 as to what his petition is. I was going to make sure 24 that I understood his statements, but I'll skip to the 25 chase. The petition is dated January 11th, and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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75 1 addressed to the Office of Inspector General. Mr.
2 Saporito, now after a period of two and a half hours, 3 has talked about everything except what he thinks 4 Turkey Point did to violate, so I'm just confused.
5 And I'll just leave it at that. It's not clear to me 6 what his alleged violation is.
7 MR. SAPORITO: And this is Thomas Saporito 8 with Saporito Energy Consultants. I just want to 9 confirm that Mr. Blair is confused, because the 10 petition, January 11, 2009, was addressed to the NRC 11 Executive Director for Operations, and not to the 12 Inspector General. So he, apparently, is confused.
13 MR. BLOUNT: I understand. With that in 14 mind, I want to thank you very much for the final 15 clarifying remarks.
16 Are there any members of the public on 17 line? If there are, before I conclude the meeting, 18 the members of the public may provide comments 19 regarding the petition, and ask questions about the 20 2.206 petition process. However, as stated in the 21 opening, the purpose of this meeting is not to provide 22 an opportunity for the petitioner, or the public, to 23 question or examine the PRB regarding the merits of 24 the petition request.
25 Hearing no questions, I want to thank Mr.
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76 1 Saporito for taking time to provide the NRC with 2 clarifying information on the petition you've 3 submitted. With that, this meeting is concluded, and 4 we'll be terminating the phone connection.
5 MR. SAPORITO: Thank you.
6 (Whereupon, the proceedings went off the 7 record at 3:16:50 p.m.)
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