ML061770115
| ML061770115 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Vermont Yankee  |
| Issue date: | 06/19/2006 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| Byrdsong A T | |
| References | |
| 50-271-LR, ASLBP 06-849-03-LR, NRC-1118, RAS 11864 | |
| Download: ML061770115 (40) | |
Text
3 6hR4/
RA-511 Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION DOCKETED USNRC June 23, 2006 (2:21pm)
Title:
Entergy Nuclear Vermont Yankee OFFICE OF SECRETARY RULEMAKINGS AND Pre-Hearing Conference ADJUDICATIONS STAFF Docket Number: 50-271-LR; ASLBP No. 06-849-03-LR Location: (telephone conference)
Date: Monday, June 19, 2006 Work Order No.: NRC-1118 Pages 1-39 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 2344433
2 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD PANEL 5 PRE-HEARING CONFERENCE CALL 6
7 8 IN THE MATTER OF: Docket No. 50-271-LR 9 ENTERGY NUCLEAR VERMONT 10 YANKEE L.L.C. and ENTERGY 11 NUCLEAR OPERATIONS, INC.
12 (Vermont Yankee Nuclear 13 Power Station) 14 15 Monday, 16 June 19, 2006 17 Teleconference 18 19 The above-entitled matter came on for 20 hearing, pursuant to notice, at 2:00 p.m.
21 BEFORE:
22 ALEX S. KARLIN, Administrative Law Judge 23 RICHARD WARDWELL, Administrative Judge 24 THOMAS ELLEMAN, Administrative Judge 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
3 1 APPEARANCES:
2 On Behalf of the Licensee:
3 MATIAS E. TRAVIESO-DIAZ, ESQ.
4 DAVID LEWIS, ESQ.
5 of: Pillsbury.'Winthrop Shaw Pittman, LLP 6 2300 N Street, NW 7 Washington, D.C. 20037 8 (202) 663-8142 9
10 On Behalf of the State of Vermont, Department of 11 Public Service:
12 SARAH HOFMANN, ESQ.
13 Counsel for the Department of Public Service 14 Director for Public Advocacy 15 WILLIAM SHERMAN 16 State Nuclear Engineer 17 112 State Street - Drawer 20 18 Montpelier, Vermont 05620-2601 19 (802) 828-3088 20 (802) 828-2342 Fax 21 22 23 24 K 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
4 1 On behalf of the State of Massachusetts:
2 DIANE CURRAN, ESQ.
3 Of: Harmon Curran Spielberg & Eisenberg, LLP 4 1726 M Street, N.W., Suite 600 5 Washington, D.C. 20036 6 (202) 328-3500 7
8 On Behalf of the Intervener, New England 9 Coalition:
10 RAYMOND SHADIS, ESQ.
11 RONALD SHEMS, ESQ.
12 of: New England Coalition 13 P.O. Box 98 K- 14 Edgecomb, Maine 04556 15 (202) 882-7801 16 17 On Behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission:
18 MITZI YOUNG, ESQ.
19 STEVEN HAMRICK, ESQ.
20 of: Office of the General Counsel 21 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 22 Washington, D.C. 20555-0001 23 (301) 415-1533 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
5 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 JUDGE KARLAN: This is a telephone 3 conference in the matter of ENTERGY Nuclear 4 Operations, Inc. ASLBP No. 04-832-02-OLA, the LR 5 standing for license renewal as I understand it, 6 Case No. 50-271-LR. And what I would like to do is 7 first introduce the members of the board who are 8 here in Rockville, Maryland, which is where I'm 9 located, and Dr. Elleman will introduce himself, and 10 then we'll go around and ask each of the parties to, 11 for the record, introduce themselves.
12 Here, in Rockville, I'm here with Dr.
13 Richard Wardwell, who is also a member of the board, 14 and Marsha Carpentier, one of the lawyers and law 15 folks who is working with this board on this matter.
16 Dr. Wardwell, do you want to say 17 anything? Okay; very good. And Dr. Elleman is with 18 us from North Carolina, somewhere in beautiful North 19 Carolina?
20 JUDGE ELLEMAN: That's correct. This is 21 Thomas Elleman. I'm calling in from Raleigh today.
22 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay; good. Why don't we 23 go around the table, perhaps starting with 24 [inaudible] and formally identify yourselves.
25 MR. LEWIS: This is David Lewis from NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
6 1 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman representing 2 ENTERGY, and I have with me Matias Travieso-Diaz.
3 JUDGE KARLIN: All right. So ENTERGY.
4 Thank you, David Lewis. May we have the state of 5 Vermont, please.
6 MS. HOFMANN: Thank you very much, Your 7 Honor. This is Sarah Hofmann. I'm the director for 8 Public Advocacy for the state of Vermont, and with 9 me today is William Sherman, the state nuclear 10 engineer. Mr. Roisman is on vacation today. If he 11 gets my voice-mail, he'll join us, but I don't 12 believe that--he had called in once earlier today, 13 prior to this call being scheduled. So I have some 14 information on Mr. Roisman's schedule, if necessary.
15 JUDGE KARLIN: Thank you. Ms. Curran, 16 for the state of Massachusetts?
17 MS. CURRAN: Yes. Good afternoon. This 18 is Diane Curran for the Commonwealth of 19 Massachusetts. The commonwealth is also represented 20 by Matthew Brock, but he was out of the office 21 today, so I'll be representing the client.
22 JUDGE KARLIN: Thank you. The New 23 England Coalition, please.
24 MR. SHEMS: Good afternoon, Your Honor.
25 My name is Ron Shems. I'm here with Karen Tyler.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202)
_ o 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
7 1 We're calling from Burlington, Vermont, and also on 2 the line is a representative from our client, Ray 3 Shadis.
4 JUDGE KARLIN: Thank you, Mr. Shems.
5 Welcome. And the staff. Ms. Young.
6 MS. YOUNG: Hello, Judge Karlin. This 7 is Mitzi Young, representing the NRC staff with the 8 Office of General Counsel in the NRC. Also with me 9 is Steven Hamrick, another attorney in our office.
10 JUDGE KARLIN: Thank you very much, and 11 thank you all for participating on this call in such 12 short notice. Because some of the deadlines are 13 relatively imminent, I thought it would be useful to 14 have a quick call, hopefully quick, and review where 15 the bidding is, I guess, or where we are, and need 16 for any extensions.
17 This is being transcribed of course and 18 the court reporter's transcription will be available 19 in five to ten days, something like that, but in the 20 meantime, could each of you, as you speak, try to 21 identify yourself. It helps, so that the court 22 reporter can properly identify each of you in the 23 transcript.
24 The purpose of this call--now the 25 members of the board have convened and talked about NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
8 1 this. The purpose of the call, the primary purpose 2 is to review the State of Vermont's motion of June 3 16th, to do two things as I understand it. One is 4 to extend the deadline for filing of certain answers 5 and replies, and the second part of the motion is to 6 change the date, the tentative date that we've set 7 out in our order, oral argument from July 25th and 8 26th to August 3rd and 4th. We'd like to hear from 9 you all about that and so that we can plan 10 accordingly.
11 We might also note that we have received 12 from Ms. Curran, of course, the information about 13 San Luis Obispo Mothers For Peace versus NRC 14 decision. So we're going to make a note on that, 15 and third, we have a few minor housekeeping matters 16 we would like to address at the outset.
17 We are not intending to rule on the 18 notices or motions, depending on how you interpret 19 it, for adoption, or of adoption, that has been 20 filed by the State of Vermont and by NEC.
21 So we're not here to do that or hear 22 argument about that today.
23 With that said, are there any other 24 urgent suggestions of items that anyone really 25 thinks need to be put on the agenda here?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
9 1 MR. : No, Judge Karlin.
2 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay; good; good. All 3 right. Fine. Then we will proceed.
4 All right. We'll start with 5 housekeeping, kind of do this in a little bit of 6 reverse order. Housekeeping. There are lots of 7 boards and there's various chairmen, and, you know, 8 one thing I guess I just would want to say is that I 9 think I would prefer us proceeding with relative 10 formality in terms of filings and communications.
11 I personally am not interested in 12 receiving e-mails unless some very urgent and 13 substantive matter requires it. Our law clerk, 14 Marsha Carpentier would be the primary law clerk on 15 this matter, and if you have an e-mail communication 16 about procedural or scheduling issues, you should 17 please contact her with a cc to Jonathan Rund.
18 So in order to avoid any, you know, ex 19 parte issues, or anything else, I think it's just 20 better to proceed in that way.
21 Second, on the housekeeping, I have if 22 each of you would file your notices of appearance, 23 2.314, required notice of appearance to be filed, 24 and that information is helpful. The staff has 25 already done so and I think if everyone else could NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
10 1 do that, that would be helpful for our contacting 2 people, because we did have some difficulties, and 3 particularly still have some difficulties with the 4 town of Marlboro. We've made diligent efforts, 5 calling everyone we can think of,;to try to inform 6 them, and encourage them to participate on this 7 call. It's very short notice, and we were 8 apparently not successful.
9 MS. CURRAN: Judge Karlin?
10 JUDGE KARLIN: Yes.
11 MS. CURRAN: This is Diane Curran. I 12 just have a question about that. Matt Black and I 13 filed notices of appearance before the secretary 14 when we submitted the hearing request. Does that 15 suffice? Or would you also like one to be filed 16 with the board?
17 JUDGE KARLIN: No; that would suffice.
18 MS. CURRAN: Okay.
19 JUDGE KARLIN: That would suffice. I'm 20 sorry I didn't mention your notice.
21 MR. LEWIS: Judge Karlin, this is David 22 Lewis. I filed a notice of appearance as has Mr.
23 Travieso-Diaz. And those are with the board. So I 24 believe you should have those as well.
25 JUDGE KARLIN: Great; okay.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44333
11 1 MS. HOFMANN: And the State of Vermont 2 also filed when we filed our contentions. We filed 3 a notice of appearance for Tony Roisman and myself.
4 MR. SHEMS Well, gee, I guess I'll 5 withdraw my comments. The only party that needed to 6 hear it is not on the line.
7 MR. Yes. They're not on the line 8 anyway, so--
9 MR. SHEMS: This is Ron Shems. I don't 10 want to [inaudible] NEC also filed.
11 JUDGE KARLIN: Well, I apologize for not 12 being aware of that and we will delve into that and 13 make sure we've got all the information you filed.
14 So thank you for that.
15 MS. YOUNG: Judge Karlin, this is Mitzi 16 Young. The staff contacted the chair for town of 17 Marlboro, Kelly Newton.
18 JUDGE KARLIN: Yes.
19 MS. YOUNG: At her e-mail address. And 20 she also gave me a town clerk's number or an 21 administrative assistant's number too. So if you 22 need that information, I can share that with your 23 clerk.
24 JUDGE KARLIN: That would be great. I 25 believe Ms. Carpentier already has that.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
12 1 MS. I contacted the town clerk but 2 if you have contact information for people at the 3 select board, I would really appreciate that.
4 MS. YOUNG: I do.
5 JUDGE KARLIN: All right.
6 MS. YOUNG: I'll get that to you 7 afterwards.
8 JUDGE KARLIN: Yes. If you could handle 9 that off-line. Thank you, Ms. Young. That's 10 helpful. Okay.
11 That said, moving from--we're really not 12 going to do a whole lot of housekeeping at this 13 point because we haven't decided on whether any 14 contentions are going to be admitted at all, and of 15 course if and when they are, then we would have a, 16 you know, bring in a conference call and we'd issue 17 initial scheduling order, and there'd be more 18 forthcoming, now, information on that.
19 Turning to the next, in reverse order 20 item, the San Luis Obispo Mothers For Peace versus 21 NRC, we note, appreciate the note from Ms. Curran 22 regarding that decision that she was involved in as 23 I understand it, and we're not here to argue it or 24 hear argument on it, but I think one point we would 25 make is that if any participant on this call--we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
13 1 can't speak for anyone else--believes that that 2 decision constitutes a circumstance or basis for 3 filing something in this case, you know, or 4 mandates, or whatever, we would urge them to do so 5 promptly and without judging or prejudging any 6 issues regarding timeliness. We would see any such 7 pleading or any such filing by July 14th, well 8 before any oral argument, recognizing of course that 9 probably would not be briefed and ready if there was 10 going to be oral argument anyway, if it was filed in 11 that timeframe.
12 And we might also, I might just mention 13 that the parties on this call might want to 14 reference the ruling in Vermont Yankee uprate of May 15 25th of 06, which talks in some regard about new and 16 amended contentions, and what that board thought in 17 terms of what was required under those rules.
18 So I'd comment that to your 19 consideration, although it doesn't bind this board 20 in any way, shape or form.
21 MS. Your Honor, would that also be 22 due July 14th or would you want that sooner?
23 JUDGE KARLIN: What be due?
24 MS. If you want us to comment on 25 the May 25th order in the Vermont Yankee uprate NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 200055-3701 (202) 234-4433
14 1 proceedings.
2 JUDGE KARLIN: No; no. I don't want you 3 to comment on it. I just might commend you to take 4 note of it, if and when you decide to file anything.
5 MS. : Oh. Thank you very much.
6 JUDGE KARLIN: That's all.
7 Okay. With that, we turn to Vermont's 8 motion of 16th of June, as I understand it two 9 things--extend the deadlines for filing certain 10 answers and to adjust the tentative date for oral 11 argument.
12 What I think we'd like to do is ask the 13 parties, particularly the state, since you filed the 14 motion, to talk about the first issue, extension of 15 deadline for filing certain answers.
16 So Ms. Hofmann, I guess the floor is 17 yours on that.
18 MS. HOFMANN: Thank you very much, Your 19 Honor. Because the contentions are filed on May 20 26th, that means the answers would be due on June 21 21st, 2006, and Vermont's reply would be due on June 22 28th, 2006.
23 That left us in a rather uncomfortable 24 position of having Mr. Roisman out of the office 25 until the 26th of June on a long-planned vacation.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
15 1 So we talked to the parties and asked if we could 2 extend by two days and basically then split the time 3 between each of us, giving the ENTERGY and NRC staff 4 one extra day, and our reply wouldn't be due until 5 June 30th.
6 But basically, we're only pushing out 7 the schedule by two days. I was able to talk to 8 everyone, all the parties, no one objected to this.
9 I didn't get Mr. MacArthur from the town of 10 Marlboro. I later was able to contact him about 11 oral argument but wasn't able to really--he didn't 12 really understand what this meant, so I didn't make 13 him comment on it at all.
14 But we would be asking the board to 15 extend this schedule by the two days.
16 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay, and the extension 17 of schedule would operate in favor of the State of 18 Vermont and...?
19 MS. HOFMANN: Basically it was two days 20 and we gave one day to ENTERGY and the NRC staff, so 21 they added one day to their timeframe, and then we 22 added one day to our timeframe.
23 JUDGE KARLIN: So the dates would be the 24 22nd and the 30th?
- y. 25 MS. HOFMANN: That's correct.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 I
16 1 JUDGE KARLIN: For both NEC and--I'm 2 sorry--for ENTERGY and the staff to file their 3 answers, and then, respectively, for NEC and State 4 of Vermont to file their replies?
5 MS. HOFMANN: I believe that is correct.
6 JUDGE KARLIN: The State of 7 Massachusetts, are they affected by any of this?
8 MS. HOFMANN: I don't believe they're 9 affected by any of this but I believe they filed 10 their own motion in terms of timeframe.
11 MS. CURRAN: That's right, Judge Karlin.
12 This is Diane Curran.
13 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay. What did you file, 14 Ms. Curran?
15 MS. CURRAN: We filed a motion to 16 extend, to basically shift the time for responding 17 and replying by two days for the NRC staff, just to 18 put it in line with the schedule for ENTERGY's 19 response in our reply. So right now, the staff's 20 response is due on the 20th and our rely would be 21 due on the 27th. Right now, ENTERGY's response is 22 due on the 22nd, and our reply's due on the 29th, 23 and we think it'd be most efficient for us if we 24 could handle both those replies, responses together.
25 So we ask for an extension that would NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
17 1 move the staff's response date from the 20th to the 2 22nd and move our reply date from the 27th to the 3 29th. And we contacted counsel for ENTERGY and the 4 staff, and there was no objection from them.
5 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay, and did anyone else 6 have any objection, or does anyone else have any 7 objection to that on behalf of the State of 8 Massachusetts?
9 MS. HOFMANN: The State of Vermont has 10 no objections.
11 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay. Now if anyone else 12 wants to comment on these extensions.
13 MR. SHEMS: This is Ron Shems from the 14 New England Coalition. We jointly filed a motion 15 with the State of Vermont and we'd be on the same 16 timeframe, and have no objection to any of the 17 motions [inaudible].
18 JUDGE KARLIN: Right. Okay. Any 19 questions from the board members?
20 JUDGE WARDWELL: I have none.
21 JUDGE KARLIN: Dr. Elleman.
22 JUDGE ELLEMAN: Just a point of 23 clarification. I thought I heard Ms. Curran say she 24 would be filing on the 29th, and did I hear the 25 others say they're filing on the 30th?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
18 1 JUDGE KARLIN: I believe that's what Ms.
2 Curran said.
3 MS. CURRAN: That's right. There's 4 different dates.
5 JUDGE ELLEMAN: Okay.
6 MS. CURRAN: We didn't have anybody on 7 vacation, so--
8 JUDGE ELLEMAN: Okay. I just wanted to 9 make sure I noted it properly.
10 JUDGE KARLIN: Well, okay. We've talked ii about this ahead of time. I appreciate, and it was 12 valuable to listen to each of you. Quite frankly 13 we're not particularly enthused about granting 14 extensions because one counsel's on vacation, and 15 the other one is excellent and can handle the 16 matter. But in light of the early situation here, 17 we're amenable and we'll grant the motions.
18 In fact, I think, if I understand it 19 correctly, what we'll just do is say the answers 20 will be due from all parties on the 22nd and the 21 replies will be due on the--the only exception to 22 that will be the town of Marlboro, which will 23 operate on its own [inaudible]. I think they may 24 have more time than that. I'm not sure of what L 25 their schedule is. So they're not here, I don't NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
It (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005.3701 (202) 234-4433
19 1 want to [inaudible] whatever, a lie.
2 MS. CURRAN: Judge Karlin, this is Diane 3 Curran. I just want to clarify. Are you saying that 4 all of the replies, including Massachusetts, are now 5 due on the 30th?
6 JUDGE KARLIN: Yes. Yes, we are.
7 MS. CURRAN: Okay; thank you.
8 MR. LEWIS: Judge Karlin, just a 9 clarification. There is one answer that none of 10 these motions address.
11 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay.
12 MR. LEWIS: ENTERGY's answer to the New 13 England Coalition's petition is due June 26th. We 14 were served on it by mail and therefore has a 15 different timing, and there's no proposal for their 16 changing that date for the answer or for any 17 replies.
18 JUDGE KARLIN: And is this Mr. Lewis 19 who's--
20 MR. LEWIS: This is Mr. Lewis; excuse 21 me.
22 JUDGE KARLIN: Let's see if we could--
23 could you repeat that. If I understand what you're 24 saying, ENTERGY's answer, due to a glitch in the 25 delivery of service, that is, you did not get--
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443 3
20 1 MR. LEWIS: It wasn't a glitch. I mean, K.. 2 they didn't have to serve us electronically. They 3 served us by mail, which adds five days to our 4 response time, and so we've been working to a June 5 26 filing date, which is the 25 days plus five days 6 to account for the service.
7 JUDGE KARLIN: Right. Okay. That is 8 unchanged.
9 MR. LEWIS: Unchanged.
10 JUDGE KARLIN: Your timeframe for, you 11 know, answering, and the timeframe for replying will 12 be unchanged.
13 MR. : And just to make sure 14 everyone's on the same page, NEC's reply would be 15 due on July 3rd?
16 JUDGE KARLIN: Seven days on--yeah. I 17 think that's right. And obviously we would 18 encourage everyone to file electronically, and 19 hopefully now you all will get the e-mail addresses 20 sorted out. You know, that shouldn't be a problem.
21 Okay.
22 So the general rule is answers and 23 replies on the 22nd. I'm sorry. Answers on the 24 22nd, replies on the 30th. There are two exceptions 25 to that rule. The standard one is the NEC and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
21 1 ENTERGY exchange, the 26th, and it appears to be 2 July 3rd, and the other exception is the town of 3 Marlboro. So that part of the motion is essentially 4 granted.
5 MS. YOUNG: Judge Karlin, this is Mitzi 6 Young for the staff.
7 JUDGE KARLIN: Yes?
8 MS. YOUNG: In your June 13th order, you 9 directed the parties to send overnight express mail 10 to Judge Elleman.
11 JUDGE KARLIN: Yes.
12 MS. YOUNG: Did you really want us to do 13 that for even things that are short in nature, you 14 don't really need a hard copy to follow?
15 JUDGE KARLIN: Dr. Elleman, what do you 16 think?
17 JUDGE ELLEMAN: I appear to be receiving 18 e-mail transmissions on a schedule and I can always 19 print out the attachments from those. So if there's 20 something urgent, that is the way I can look at it.
21 Otherwise, the normal mail, I think is a 22 satisfactory approach.
23 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay. Let's do it that 24 way, until further notice.
25 MS. YOUNG: Thank you, Judge Karlin.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
22 1 JUDGE KARLIN: Thank you. That's 2 helpful.
3 Okay. Turning to the oral argument, 4 bring in the oral argument. A couple things we 5 wanted to talk about and then I would like to go 6 around the table and ask you all about the schedule 7 and your issues or difficulties with the dates we've 8 proposed.
9 Obviously this is a tentative date for 10 oral argument. The board hasn't decided whether we 11 need one or not, but given the timeframe, we like to 12 try to get some time available, and this one seemed 13 to work well for us, July 25th and 26th.
14 Another point for all of you to take 15 note of is it's not an "all or nothing" matter. The 16 only purpose of the oral argument is for the board 17 to get information and answers to questions we may 18 have in order to rule on the admissibility and 19 standing of the parties. We don't have any 20 questions about particular contentions or 21 [inaudible]. We will not hear oral argument on that 22 contention or from that party.
23 So we may not have all of you present, 24 or at least all of you may not need to do any work.
25 We also take seriously the fact that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
23 1 under 2.309(i), the board will attempt to issue a 2 ruling within five days of the final, the last 3 reply.
4 MS. CURRAN: I'm sorry, Judge Karlin.
5 It's strange. Every once in a while, I miss a 6 syllable of what you're saying. How many days did 7 you say?
8 JUDGE KARLIN: Is that Ms. Curran?
9 MS. CURRAN: Yes. I'm sorry. Yes; it 10 is.
11 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay, Ms. Curran, under 12 10 CFR 2.309(i), the board has some obligation to 13 try to issue a ruling on the admissibility of 14 contentions and the standing of the parties within 15 45 days of the final pleadings, that being the 16 replies, generally, and so we try to take that 17 seriously, and that constrains us because August 3rd 18 and 4th pushes pretty hard up against that 45 day 19 timeframe.
20 We would note that there is a parallel 21 proceeding in Vermont Yankee uprate, in which an 22 evidentiary hearing is scheduled for the week of 9-23 11, and that board, and I'm on it, wanted to have a 24 goodly amount of time before the 9-iI to prepare 25 itself for what we think is probably the first NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
24 1 subpart L proceeding under the new subpart L 2 requirements. All that said, we set the 25th and 3 26th of July. We also have [inaudible] issues to 4 consider such as the availability of--we have 5 preliminarily [inaudible] several options.
6 Therefore, we would now like to hear from each of 7 you as to why you are not [inaudible] on July 25th 8 and 26th, and what the problems are, and let's see 9 if we can work it out.
10 Vermont. Please, would you address 11 that.
12 MS. HOFMANN: Thank you very much, Your 13 Honor. I actually will be on vacation in another 14 state during that time period and it turns out Mr.
15 Roisman will also be gone during that period. I 16 believe he's in either California or Oregon, I 17 forget, but he's on vacation. Both of us had 18 planned these vacations.
19 So I'm very sorry but we could not do 20 the dates provided.
21 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay. And that's you're 22 out for both dates?
23 MS. HOFMANN: For both dates, and I did 24 get those dates from Mr. Roisman beforehand, and 25 that's also how we came upon the August 3rd and 4th, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
25 1 that was good for everyone.
2 JUDGE KARLIN: Are you both out all of 3 that week?
4 MS. HOFMANN: Yes, both of us are out 5 all of the 24th through the 28th, and then at the 6 beginning of--on the ist I'm actually at a 7 conference at NRC, it's a state liaison officers 8 conference that the NRC puts on, and I'll be 9 [inaudible] point in time.
10 JUDGE KARLIN: I'm sorry. The last was 11 cut off.
12 MS. HOFMANN: Okay. I'm sorry. The NRC 13 Conference for State Liaison Officers is August Ist 14 and August 2nd.
15 JUDGE KARLIN: [inaudible] constrained 16 by that?
17 MS. HOFMANN: And I am constrained by 18 that as is the state nuclear engineer.
19 JUDGE KARLIN: How about the week of 20 August 17th? July 17th?
21 MS. HOFMANN: July 17th? I have Mr.
22 Roisman gone. I'm here the first three days of that 23 week. I'm here the 17th, 18th and 19th. But Mr.
24 Roisman is gone that entire week as well.
25 JUDGE KARLIN: And what is his problem?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
26 1 MS. HOFMANN: That's the vacation, where 2 I can't remember if it's California or Oregon, but 3 he's on the West Coast.
4 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay. So you're 5 available the 17th, 18th and 19th?
6 MS. HOFMANN: Yes. And I also wanted to 7 say, this is [inaudible] I was able to communicate 8 with Mr. MacArthur, Dan MacArthur from the town of 9 Marlboro.
10 JUDGE KARLIN: Yes.
11 MS. HOFMANN: And he was available the 12 3rd and 4th of August and I sent an e-mail today, 13 Sorry, I was only responding to the board's order of 14 June 13th, where it did say we could e-mail the 15 proposed alternative dates to you.
16 JUDGE KARLIN: I thought that said to 17 the law clerk; but that's fine.
18 MS. HOFMANN: Sorry.
19 JUDGE KARLIN: Now Mr. MacArthur said 20 he's available on the 3rd and 4th. Is he not 21 available any other day?
22 MS. HOFMANN: Mr. MacArthur is a 23 carpenter, so it's hard to get him during the day.
24 But I believe there were other dates he was 25 available as well. In fact, I think he was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005.3701 (202) 234-4433
27 1 available August 8th and 9th as well.
2 JUDGE KARLIN: That's not much help.
3 Okay. Well I guess his level of interest is--well, 4 I won't say anything more.
5 Massachusetts. "Mr. Curran, can you--
6 you're available on these dates?
7 MS. CURRAN: We're available the week of 8 July the 24th, and we're available the 18th through 9 the 21st of July, although it will be very difficult 10 for me to get there on the 18th. It'd be better to 11 do it towards the middle or the end of the week.
12 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay. So the week of the 13 17th, 18th, 19th; but the 18th is bad for you?
14 MS. CURRAN: 17th and 18th are bad. The 15 rest of the week is fine. And we also are available 16 on the 3rd and the 4th of August.
17 JUDGE KARLIN: How about Mister--your 18 associate lawyer?
19 MS. CURRAN: Yes. He's available.
20 JUDGE KARLIN: He's available all these 21 days?
22 MS. CURRAN: The same dates I mentioned; 23 yes.
24 JUDGE KARLIN: Well, what about the 25 other dates? Is he available the 17th and 18th?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
28 1 MS. CURRAN: Yes.
2 JUDGE KARLIN: Even though you're not?
3 MS. CURRAN: Right.
4 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay.
5 MS. CURRAN: But I am the person who's 6 responsible for the contention and I think it would 7 be difficult for him to carry it without me.
8 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay. I guess we would 9 turn to New England Coalition. Mr. Shems, what's 10 your situation, please?
11 MR. SHEMS: New England Coalition is 12 available on the 25th and 26th. We're also 13 available the week of the 17th and we're also 14 available August 3rd and 4th. We are not available 15 August 9th and 10th.
16 JUDGE KARLIN: And when you say "we,"
17 you mean you?
18 MR. SHEMS: Myself, and after the 10th 19 also, Karen Tyler.
20 JUDGE KARLIN: After August 10th? I'm 21 sorry, Mr. Shems. You said after the 10th?
22 MR. SHEMS: Yes.
23 JUDGE KARLIN: The 10th of...?
24 MR. SHEMS: The 10th of August and 25 after, it's not good for either Karen Tyler or NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202 )2344433
29 1 myself.
2 JUDGE KARLIN: All right. I understand 3 you're saying the 25th and 26th is okay. The week 4 of the 17th if okay and the 3rd and 4th of August is 5 okay.
6 MR. SHEMS: That's correct.
7 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay. Great.
8 Let's see. ENTERGY. I guess we'll turn 9 to Mr. Lewis.
10 MR. LEWIS: Yes, Judge Karlin. The week 11 of July 17th is okay. The week of July 24th if 12 okay, and the week of--what is the August week?
13 August. That first week in August is okay. The 14 week of July 10th, currently the Pilgrim licensing 15 board has scheduled, tentatively, their prehearing 16 conference for July lth and 12th but I think that 17 will change. The only day that week that I couldn't 18 do it is July 14th.
19 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay. We weren't talking 20 about July. We're talking I think August. Somehow 21 we ended up talking about August. We're not 22 contemplating anything as early as July l1th or 23 12th. So we have some difficulty, overseas travel 24 that won't be completed at that point.
25 So your report, Mr. Lewis, is the week NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
30 1 of the 17th is okay, the week of the 24th is okay, 2 the week of August Ist is okay?
3 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir.
4 JUDGE KARLIN: That's what we like to 5 hear. A nice clear schedule. That's good.
6 And I guess Ms. Young, Mr. Hamrick, 7 staff?
8 MS. YOUNG: The week of the 17th and the 9 beginning of the week of the 24th, the environmental 10 project manager is not available to attend the 11 conference and the staff would need his support if 12 you have questions in that area. He returns from 13 overseas travel and will be in the office on the 14 26th. So the balance of the week of the 24th, 26th 15 through the 28th, the staff will participate.
16 JUDGE KARLIN: Well, okay. The 17 environmental project manager, is that what you're 18 saying?
19 MS. YOUNG: Yes.
20 JUDGE KARLIN: And who is that?
21 MS. YOUNG: Richard Emch.
22 JUDGE KARLIN: Oh, Mr. Emch? Okay.
23 Well, setting him aside, what is your availability 24 the week of the 17th?
25 MS. YOUNG: Available both dates.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
31 1 JUDGE KARLIN: The week of the 17th, the
-' 2 week of the 24th, the week of August 1st. Those are 3 all available?
4 MS. YOUNG: Correct. As long as we're 5 not talking [inaudible] contentions.
6 JUDGE KARLIN: Well, I don't know what 7 contentions we're talking but we're going to be 8 hearing from lawyers, not from technical people, so 9 I think that would be probably unnecessary, to have 10 him there.
11 MS. YOUNG: Well, the other parties are 12 trying to arrange dates where they have their 13 technical support with them, too, Judge Karlin. So 14 just understand the concern.
15 JUDGE KARLIN: Right; okay. I 16 understand. Okay.
17 MS. YOUNG: Do I owe you any other 18 dates? I'm sorry.
19 JUDGE KARLIN: No. I think that was 20 helpful. Let me then understand. The difficulty 21 with the 25th and 26th comes solely from the State 22 of Vermont, setting aside the town. Is that right?
23 Everybody else is available that date?
24 MS. YOUNG: Except the staff and
- 25 environmental project manager who doesn't return NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
32 1 till the 26th.
2 JUDGE KARLIN: Yes. Counsel. Ms.
3 Hofmann, is there no way that a lawyer from your 4 organization, you know, the State of Vermont is a 5 big organization, you've got Mr. Roisman and 6 yourself, appearance in this. Is there no way that 7 either one of you can be available? Because the 8 only other alternative is to go to the week of the 9 17th, 18th and--the July 17, 18, 19.
10 MS. HOFMANN: Your Honor, I'm very sorry 11 but both Mr. Roisman and I are gone. In terms of 12 Vermont being a big organization, I'm the director 13 for public advocacy, which means I have a staff of 14 six lawyers, and right now none of them are "up to 15 speed" on this case and actually have their own 16 caseloads, where they're working on in-state 17 matters. So I don't believe I could get one of them 18 to do it.
19 Both Mr. Roisman and I will be in 20 different states. Obviously if you set the date, 21 one of us will fly back for this.
22 JUDGE KARLIN: Well, you are in town and 23 available on the 17th, 18th, and 19th?
24 MS. HOFMANN: I am available. Mr.
25 Roisman is not. But yes, I am available. It would NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 2344433
33 1 be definitely too bad for the board not to hear Mr.
2 Roisman's deep experience.
3 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay.
4 I think what we--our contemplation is 5 we've talked about two days. It may not take two 6 days. As we said, we may not need to hear from 7 everyone on every contention, and, in any event, 8 it's very unlikely that any one party would need to, 9 or any one intervenor would need to be there more 10 than one day. Certainly you'd probably want to 11 listen in and have someone attending and taking 12 notes and be on the record, but argument would 13 probably not be required, any one more than one's 14 day appearance.
15 With that said, I'd like to take a brief 16 recess here, so that I can confer with my colleagues 17 and then we could get back to you.
18 I think I'm tending to go to the 17th, 19 18th, 19th, 20th, that timeframe.
20 JUDGE ELLEMAN: Judge Karlin, this is 21 Judge Elleman. Could I .ask a question first? I 22 think I'm clear, in listening to the discussion on 23 the status of the 17th, the 24th and August 7th. I 24 heard some comments related to the early August 25 date, like on August Ist or 2nd.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
34 1 Are those available possibilities or are 2 they not available?
3 MS. HOFMANN: This is Sarah Hofmann for 4 the State of Vermont. After we did a lot of 5 communications between all of the parties, the date-,
6 that everyone was available was August 3rd and 4th.
7 I believe there were some conflicts on 8 August Ist and 2nd, but let me have--oh, I was going 9 to be at the NRC conference in D.C. for state 10 liaison officers, and if I have to, I'll skip that.
11 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay. Dr. Elleman, 12 unless anyone has any other questions, or any of the 13 board members have other questions, Dr. Wardwell, 14 perhaps we could take a break and we could call you.
15 JUDGE ELLEMAN: Okay.
16 MS. CURRAN: Judge Karlin, I just want 17 to make sure you understand. There's no way I could 18 do a conference on the 17th. I could hopefully get 19 there by the 18th, but I'm coming back from a trip 20 out of the country and I won't get home till late 21 that afternoon.
22 JUDGE KARLIN: Right. Okay. I 23 appreciate that.
24 MS. YOUNG: Judge Karlin, this is Mitzi 25 Young for the NRC staff. The staff is totally open NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
35 1 the week of July 31st.
2 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay.
3 MS. HOFMANN: And Your Honor, this is 4 Sarah Hofmann again. I would be happy to skip the 5 state liaison officer meeting in Rockland, if you 6 decide to go with the first and second, and Mr.
7 Roisman is available those days.
8 JUDGE KARLIN: We're looking to move it 9 up now significantly, or keep it up, rather than 10 into August, for reasons I--now we'll just have to 11 see. All right. I appreciate you all thinking 12 through the schedule. Nothing can be perfect for 13 any of us, and I think one of the things that 14 perhaps to be aware of is that having it later 15 rather than earlier may tend to force the board not 16 to be able to meet the 45 requirement of the regs, 17 or tentative requirement.
18 I'm hearing that you all are okay with 19 that. But okay, we're going to take a 10 minute 20 break. Please stay on the line. Meanwhile we will 21 speak on the line with Judge Elleman and Mr. Court 22 Reporter, we will now go off the record.
23 [off the record]
24 JUDGE KARLIN: On the record. This is 25 Alex Karlin taking us back on the record of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44333
36 1 prehearing conference call in Vermont Yankee's K.-' 2 renewal.
3 Judge Elleman, are you on the line?
4 JUDGE ELLEMAN: I'm on the line, sir.
5 JUDGE KARLIN: Very good.
6 Thank you all for explaining it to us, 7 and we know this is a difficult time with summer 8 vacations and that sort of thing, and we don't 9 really want to disrupt people's plans. We have 10 plans of our own and we want to turn to this 11 problem. The pleadings essentially be complete on 12 June 30th and we feel somewhat constrained to have 13 oral argument, if we're going to have it at all, as 14 promptly as we can.
15 All that said, we're going to say that, 16 move the date to August 1st and 2nd. We recognize 17 that's not very much but perhaps it's a few days and 18 we can at least keep this thing moving promptly.
19 I understand Ms. Hofmann may have to 20 change her schedule, but otherwise, everyone seems 21 to be available. So those will be the new 22 tentative, again tentative dates, August Ist and 23 2nd, Tuesday and Wednesday I guess of that week.
24 I appreciate everyone going through this 25 with us. So we will try to inform, obviously, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
37 1 everyone, about this issue, this effect, but that's 2 all we needed to cover on that. Appreciate your 3 help on this.
4 We had no other issues on the agenda but 5 **we just wanted to check with the parties if any 6 other items need to be covered at this moment.
7 MS. YOUNG: Judge Karlin, will you be 8 memorializing this ruling in an order or is the 9 transcript going to suffice?
10 JUDGE KARLIN: Who is that, please.
11 MS. YOUNG: Mitzi Young for the staff.
12 JUDGE KARLIN: Oh, Ms. Young. Okay. I 13 think we may memorialize the tentative dates for the 14 oral argument in an order but I don't expect a full 15 order laying out everything we just said here.
16 MS. YOUNG: Okay. Well, also the 17 guidance on how to serve Judge Elleman.
18 JUDGE KARLIN: Oh. We probably wouldn't 19 put that into an order.
20 MS. YOUNG: Well, right now, you have an 21 order that says we have to do something different.
22 JUDGE KARLIN: Well, I think we will 23 recognize what we've said here, you know, verbally, 24 and that will suffice at the moment.
25 MS. YOUNG: Thank you.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
38 1 JUDGE KARLIN: We won't hold it against 2 you if you comply with what we discussed here. But 3 that's a good point to raise. I think we will issue 4 a short order reflecting the adjusted dates.
5 Okay. With that--
6 MR. SHEMS: Excuse me. This is Ron 7 Shems. Just to be clear, how are we supposed to 8 serve Judge Elleman? Is it by FedEx or by the e-9 mail that he can print out?
10 JUDGE KARLIN: If you've got anything 11 with a significant number of attachments or more 12 than, say, ten pages, I would suggest you send him 13 Federal Express. If it's relatively short, that he 14 can print out in his home computer, I think I heard 15 him say e-mail suffices 16 MR. SHEMS: Okay. Thank you very much.
17 JUDGE KARLIN: Now the problem is large 18 materials which, you know, overwhelm a private 19 person's e-mail system and printer, and that sort of 20 thing.
21 JUDGE ELLEMAN: Judge Karlin, I would 22 add to that, if you're sending only by e-mail, I 23 would appreciate an ordinary mail backup just to 24 confirm that I'm getting it.
25 JUDGE KARLIN: Okay. And w e will NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
39 1 incorporate that ultimately in an order, if and 2 when, you know, we have contentions submitted.
3 All right. Thank you very much for 4 participating in this call. I think we got it done 5 in less than an hour, so that's helpful, and again 6 for participating on such short notice.
7 Thank you, and we will look forward to 8 following this case, and oral argument, perhaps in 9 August. We'll close the record now.
10 [Whereupon, at 2:57 p.m., the pre-II hearing conference call was concluded]
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Entergy Nuclear Vermont Yankee, LLC and Entergy Nuclear Operations, Inc.
Pre-hearing Conference Docket Number: 50-271-LR and ASLBP No.06-849-03-LR Location: via teleconference were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
dg Turner Official Reporter Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202)
. o 234.4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v