ML033560360
| ML033560360 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Catawba  |
| Issue date: | 12/11/2003 |
| From: | Patton A Neal R. Gross & Co. |
| To: | Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation |
| Byrdsong A T | |
| References | |
| 50-413-OLA, 50-414-OLA, ASLBP 03-815-03-OLA, NRC-1239, RAS 7142 | |
| Download: ML033560360 (40) | |
Text
RAs Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Duke Energy Corporation Catawba.Nuclear Station, Units 1 & 2 Teleconference
. Docket Number:
50-413-OLA and 50-414-OLA Location:
(telephone conference)
DOCKETED USNRC December 22, 2003 (8:37AM)
OFFICE OF SECRETARY RULEMAKINGS AND 2003 ADJUDICATIONS STAFF Date:
Thursday, December.11, i
, k W
O.
Work Order No.:
NRC-1 239 Pages 577-614 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island, Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD PANEL LICENSING RENEWAL TELEPHONE CONFERENCE CALL lI IN THE MATTER OF fl DUKE ENERGY CORPORATION ll Docket Nos.
(Catawba Nuclear Station, ll 50-413-OLA Units 1 & 2) 11 50-414-OLA
'I
- Thursday, December 11, 2003 The above-entitled matter came on for hearing, pursuant to notice, at 3:30 p.m.
BEFORE:
THE HONORABLE ANN MARSHALL YOUNG, Chair THE HONORABLE ANTHONY BARATTA THE HONORABLE THOMAS ELLEMAN NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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APPEARANCES:
2 On Behalf of the Licensee, Duke EnerqV Corp.:
3 ANNE W. COTTINGHAM, ESQ.
4 MIKE WETTERHAHN, ESQ.
5 of:
Winston & Strawn 6
Suite 800 7
1400 L Street, N.W.
8 Washington, D.C.
20005 9
202/371-5700 10 AND 11 MIKE CASH, ESQ.
12 STEVE NESBIT, ESQ.
13 Duke Energy Corporation 14 422 South Church Street 15 Charlotte, NC 28202 16 17 On Behalf of the Nuclear Regulatorv Commission 18 Staff:
19 SUSAN L. UTTAL, ESQ.
20 ANTONIO FERNANDEZ, ESQ.
21 KATHLEEN A. KANNLER, ESQ.
22 Nuclear Regulatory Commission 23 Office of the General Counsel 24 Mail Stop-0-14D21 25 Washington, D.C.
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On Behalf of Petitioner Blue Ridge Environmental 2
Defense Leacque:
3 DIANE CURRAN, ESQ.
4 Harmon, Curran, Speilberg & Eisenberg 5
Suite 600 6
1726 M Street 7
Washington, D.C.
20036 8
9 On Behalf of Petitioner Nuclear Information and 10 Resource Service:
11 MARY OLSON, Director, Southeast Office 12 Nuclear Information and Resource Service 13 729 Haywood Road, 1-A 14 P.O. Box 7586 15 Asheville, NC 28802 16 ALSO PRESENT:
17 Bob Martin, Project Manager 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2
3:36 p.m.
3 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay, this is Judge Ann 4
Marshall Young. And I'm going to pass it on to Judge 5
Baratta and Judge Elleman.
6 JUDGE BARATTA: This is Judge Anthony J.
7 Baratta.
8 JUDGE ELLEMAN:
This is Judge Thomas 9
Elleman.
10 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay, staff.
11 MR. FERNANDEZ: This is Antonio Fernandez 12 from the staff.
With me I have Kathleen Kannler, 13 Susan Uttal and Bob Martin, which is the Project 14 Manager for the MOX Project.
15 MR. WETTERHAHN: Good afternoon, this is 16 Mark Wetterhahn for the Licensee, Duke Energy 17 Corporation.
I have with me Ann Cottingham and in 18 Charlotte, will you identify yourselves, please?
19 MR. NESBIT: Steve Nesbit and Mike Cash.
20 MR. WETTERHAHN: Thank you.
Just for the 21 record, I will submit a formal notice of appearance 22 with our next pleading in this case.
23 JUDGE YOUNG: Thanks.
BREDL.
24 MS. CURRAN: This is Diane Curran, C-u-r-25 r-a-n, representing Blue Ridge Environmental Defense NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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League.
2 JUDGE YOUNG: That's, when I said BREDL, 3
that's an acronym for the Blue Ridge Environmental 4
Defense League, for the Court Reporter.
And Ms.
5 Olson.
6 MS.
OLSON:
This is Mary
- Olson, 7
representing Nuclear Information and Resource Service.
8 Our acronym is NIRS.
9 JUDGE YOUNG: Is there anyone else present 10 that we haven't heard from?
Okay, well, thank you 11 very much, all of you, for putting together this 12 schedule.
13 We've looked at it and absent any untoward 14 circumstances, we think it looks good.
We were 15 talking earlier about trying to set the oral argument 16 for, did we say the 7th or the 8th?
17 MS. UTTAL: Judge Young.
18 JUDGE YOUNG: Umm hmm.
19 MS. UTTAL: Judge Young, this is Susan 20 Uttal, I have a problem with the oral argument that 21 arose today.
22 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay, go ahead.
23 MS. UTTAL: One of my staff was involved in 24 reviewing the Fuel Act that will not be the 12th.
25 She's available from January 12th, to January 23rd.
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JUDGE YOUNG: I think I missed part of what 2
you were sayring. But you said they're not going to be 3
available from the 7th to the 12th?
4 MS. UTTAL: That's correct.
She will be 5
available on the 12th, through the 23rd of January.
6 JUDGE YOUNG: So we could do it on the 7
13th, for example?
8 MS. UTTAL: Yes.
9 JUDGE YOUNG: We had wanted to do it as 10 earlier as possible. So, if we, if we could, the 12th 11 to travel and did it on the 13th, that would be within 12 your 7th to 15th window.
13 Would that be all right with you, Judge 14 Baratta and Judge Elleman, assuming everything?
15 JUDGE BARATTA: As far as I'm concerned, 16 this is Judge Baratta, that's okay.
17 JUDGE ELLEMAN: Judge Elleman, I hear, that 18 will work for me.
19 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay, then I'm going to put 20 it on my calendar for the 13th.
And, unless we 21 discuss anything different, I'm just going to do an 22 order incorporating all the dates that you all have 23 come up with.
24 The protective order, we've gotten Ms.
25 Curran's objection and the staff -
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MS. CURRAN:
Excuse me, Judge Young.
2 JUDGE YOUNG: Umm hmr.
3 MS. CURRAN:
Just for a moment, can we 4
back up to the oral argument?
5 JUDGE YOUNG: Oh, sure.
6 MS. CURRAN: I would, I'd like to just be 7
sure that Dr. Lyman can be there.
Can I let you know 8
whether the 13th works for him?
9 JUDGE YOUNG: Yeah.
10 MS. CURRAN:
Okay.
11 JUDGE YOUNG: Try to, I guess I assumed 12 that, that between the 7th 'and 15th meant that he 13 would be available on any of those dates. But, so try 14 to -
15 MS. CURRAN: Okay.
16 JUDGE YOUNG: -
try to encourage him to be 17 there since -
18 MS. CURRAN:
I will.
I don't think it 19 should be a problem.
20 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay.
Is there anyway -
21 COURT REPORTER: Judge Young, this is the 22 Court Reporter, I'm sorry to interrupt, but who just 23 spoke to you, Judge Young?
24 JUDGE YOUNG: Diane -
25 MS. CURRAN:
Diane Curran.
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COURT REPORTER: Okay, thank you.
2 JUDGE YOUNG: Is there any way you could 3
call him, I don't guess you have another phone there?
4 MS. CURRAN: I'll call him when we hang up 5
and then I'll call you back.
6 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay.
Or, maybe we might 7
even take a break so that in case we need to 8
reschedule, we'll all still be here.
9 MS. CURRAN:
Okay.
10 MS. COTTINGHAM: Judge Young, this is Anne 11 Cottingham. What location are you contemplating for 12 the oral argument?
13 JUDGE YOUNG: I think we were contemplating 14 coming back down to North Carolina. Judge Elleman is 15 there and I know there's a lot of interest, and so 16 Judge Baratta and Judge Elleman and I have discussed 17 it.
18 And we're willing to do that unless there 19 is a problem with it. I think, we generally try to go 20 to the location.
21 MS. COTTINGHAM: Thank you.
22 JUDGE YOUNG: Ms. Curran, is there anyway 23 you could just break off and we'll hold on while you 24 call him?
25 MS. CURRAN:
I can try it.
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JUDGE YOUNG: Okay.
2 MS. CURRAN:
I'll get back to you.
3 JUDGE YOUNG: Just because in case we need 4
to reschedule, we'll have everybody here.
5 MR. WETTERHAHN: Perhaps we can go through 6
the schedule or items, so that if there are any 7
additional questions regarding availability that we 8
can check at the end of our schedule review.
9 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay, who was that?
10 MR. WETTERHAHN: This is Mark Wetterhahn.
11 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay.
Are there any, are 12 there any questions about the dates? I guess we had 13 assumed, the only ones that appear to be open at this 14 point, are those related to the security contention.
15 Is that correct? Am I missing something?
16 MS. COTTINGHAM: It seems that way.
17 JUDGE YOUNG: And I guess on those I was 18 going to ask the staff if you had any, I guess the 19 staff and Duke, if you have an idea when the Security 20 Plan Submittal will be available for review?
21 MS. COTTINGHAM: Well, it depends on when 22 the protective order gets signed.
23 JUDGE YOUNG: Well, okay, that's good, a 24 good point.
Let's discuss that, then.
Was someone 25 just about to say something?
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MR. WETTERHAHN: This is Mark Wetterhahn.
2 That submittal has already been filed, so the staff 3
has it.
4 JUDGE YOUNG: Right.
5 MR. WETTERHAHN: And can release it at the 6
moment the protective order is signed.
7 JUDGE YOUNG: Oh, okay. Well, okay. That 8
explains it very succinctly, thank you.
9 JUDGE BARATTA: One thing, though, this is 10 Judge Baratta.
I think that there has to be a review 11 of the, all the parties security.
I think that was 12 something that was brought up at the hearing.
13 MS. UTTAL: I think that's already been 14 done, Judge Baratta.
This is Susan Uttal.
15 JUDGE BARATTA: Okay.
16 MS. UTTAL: I think they've already been 17 cleared.
18 JUDGE BARATTA: Well, the clearance, yes, 19 the clearances, but the physical security is, I'm 20 sorry, is what I was referring to.
21 Like there was some discussion about 22 checking the containers and that sort of thing.
23 MR. FERNANDEZ: I think once the, this is 24 Antonio Fernandez.
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can be done later, at a later time, if the staff 2
chooses to conduct an inspection.
3 It's not a requirement.
We assume that 4
Ms. Curran and Mr. Lyman will adhere to the contents 5
of the order.
And that if they do end up processing 6
safeguarded information that they would obey the terms 7
of the order.
8 So it's
- not, it's not a condition 9
precedent that we go and inspect their facility prior 10 to them going ahead and processing the information.
11 JUDGE BARATTA: Okay, I was confused, I 12 apologize. I thought at the meeting it was said that 13 that was necessary.
14 MR.
FERNANDEZ:
If we gave you that 15 impression, I apologize, Your Honor.
16 JUDGE YOUNG: So are all the parties clear 17 on all the procedures and requirements?
I haven't 18 lately read the protective order and the non-19 disclosure affidavit in detail.
20 But I think that that did seem to cover 21 pretty much everything about computers and everyone 22 knows not to use e-mail and telephone.
23 And one thing that was pointed out to us 24 by Bern Stapleton in another case, was when you're 25 traveling it's often better to send it in a double NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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envelope sealed method, than carry it with you, in 2
case you might, something might happen to it.
3 Am I correct in assuming that you all have 4
all clarified any questions relating to the security 5
methods and procedures?
6 JUDGE BARATTA: I don't think there are any 7
questions with regard to the content of the protective 8
order.
I think the parties are knowledgeable and I'm 9
sure if there are any questions, there will be 10 consultation among the parties as to the meaning.
11 MS. CURRAN:
This is Diane Curran.
The 12 way I think understand it, sometimes when you go to 13 carry something out a question comes up, but I think 14 I have all the contact people that I would need to get 15 in touch with.
16 JUDGE YOUNG:
- Okay, great.
On the 17 protective order, we have discussed your objection, 18 Ms. Curran, and we've tentatively discussed approving 19 the protective order subject to a possible further 20 conversation or argument on your objection.
21 But, in the meantime, I want to ask Judge 22 Baratta about a suggestion that you came, you and 23 Judge Elleman came up with, with regard to a possible 24 alternative way of addressing the concerns in Ms.
25 Curran's objection.
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JUDGE BARATTA: Yes, it's my understanding, 2
and correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Fernandez, is that 3
the staff doesn't feel that they would have the 4
resources to review all of the pleading.
5 And I was thinking that if it were 6
possible, maybe Ms. Curran could generate a summary 7
which might be a little bit shorter in duration and 8
maybe that could then be reviewed. So it wouldn't as 9
quite a heavy a burden.
10 I think maybe we could, in that way, 11 achieve the same goal which is keeping her membership 12 as though it was a public form.
Is there any -
13 MR. FERNANDEZ: Since last we met, I've had 14 the opportunity of speaking further about this issue 15 with my client. And not only does the staff feel that 16 it would a burden on their resources, but also that, 17 given that they are not required to do so, they are 18 not going to exercise that discretion and go ahead and 19 review these documents.
20 JUDGE BARATTA: All right.
21 JUDGE YOUNG: The only other thing, well, 22 this may not be the only other, but one other thing 23 that we had discussed was the possibility of, at 24 whatever point at which we conduct the closed hearing, 25 closed oral argument on the security contention, if NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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there are any questions at that point, while everyone 2
is there. We would ask to have a staff person there.
3 And if Ms. Curran could be prepared with the summaries 4
or abstracts and we could just address those right at 5
that point with the security person there.
6 MR.
FERNANDEZ: Your Honor, I think, the 7
staff and I want to be very, very clear. The staff is 8
not going to review documents for the Petitioners in 9
this proceeding to determine whether the documents, 10 before issuance, have safeguards information in them.
11 JUDGE YOUNG: Are you saying that you're 12 not going to have a staff person at the oral argument?
13 MR. FERNANDEZ: I'm assuming that we will, 14 Your Honor, since you have requested to have a person 15 there.
But that person's function there is not going 16 to be to review documents for the Petitioner.
17 Rather, it would be of an informational 18 service to the Board, if the Board were to have any 19 questions with regards to the conduct of the 20 proceeding.
21 JUDGE YOUNG: And if the Board were to ask 22 if the security person had any problem with a 23 particular summary, you would not have any objection 24 to the staff person, the security staff person 25 responding, would you?
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MR. FERNANDEZ: I think we would. Because 2
then it would, it would just try, it would be trying 3
to get in through the back door what we've already 4
said that the staff would, is not going to do.
Which 5
is review documents for the Petitioner.
6 These are documents the Petitioner wishes to disclose 7
to their membership, and they are advised by Counsel, 8
as is the staff, and they can read 7321, as well as 9
the staff can.
10 MS. CURRAN:
Well, I beg to differ about 11 that.
The guidelines are pretty broad and there's 12 tremendously liability associated with disclosing 13 safeguards information.
14 Certainly with proprietary information 15 it's much less, considered less valuable, the NRC has, 16 a whole process for dealing with that.
17 JUDGE ELLEMAN: Judge Young, this is Judge 18 Elleman.
May I ask a question or so on this issue?
19 JUDGE YOUNG: Umm hmm.
20 JUDGE ELLEMAN: Ms. Curran, from our oral 21 discussions in Charlotte, it was my impression that 22 what you wanted to be able to do was to apprise your 23 membership of what in general was going on, what 24 progress was being made.
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report.
Is this substantially the case?
2 MS. CURRAN:
We want to be able to, to 3
some degree, address substantive issues, such as to be 4
able to say we think the security plan is inadequate.
5 JUDGE ELLEMAN: Okay.
6 MS. CURRAN: Or, and then the question is, 7
to what degree can we describe it. And there's really 8
very little guidance that you can get from the 9
definitions as to what that, where you draw the line.
10 And I know recently there's a group that 11 put some information on its web site and was told, 12 this is safeguards information and was threatened with 13 criminal liability.
14 I don't want to get my client into that 15 situation.
16 JUDGE ELLEMAN: No, and I think we would 17 all understand that and appreciate that. I was hoping 18 you could describe, in general, the areas of concern 19 without getting into a specific discussion of 20 procedures, which is where the classification exists 21 in issues.
22 So you think you couldn't steer clear of 23 that boundary in your reporting?
24 MS. CURRAN: Well, my problem is I don't 25 know what it is we're going to be seeing.
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seen a security plan before. So I don't, I'm a little 2
bit in the dark, as to what the issues are and what 3
I'd want to be able to tell people.
4 We definitely, we don't want to disclose 5
safeguards information.
We also want to be able to 6
tell people as much as we can about what's happening.
7 8
Because the public hearing process is a 9
very important practice for informing the public about 10 what's going on.
11 JUDGE ELLEMAN: Yeah.
12 MS. CURRAN: And I'd like to, I don't want 13 to be restricted to real general platitudes, and I 14 think there's probably some middle ground there.
15 JUDGE ELLEMAN:
Yeah, I was hoping you 16 could convey to the membership a sense of what is 17 happening in the deliberations and in the reviews, 18 without having to get into the specifics of what the 19 plans say.
20 And that's where you would have the 21 security trouble, I think.
22 MS. CURRAN: Right.
23 JUDGE YOUNG:
I understand what you're 24 saying, and this is Judge Young, in terms of, without 25 seeing it, it's hard to know exactly what you're NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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talking about.
2 I think one of the functions that is 3
helpful for the Board, for the staff to serve, is to 4
sort of help us be alert to the kinds of things that 5
all of us shouldn't discuss or include in public 6
orders, public pleadings, whatever the case may be.
7 And Mr. Stapleton performed that function 8
when I asked Duke Counsel a question in Charlotte and 9
on one or two occasions, I believe.
10 It strikes me that we should be able to 11 discuss, at oral argument, in one context or another, 12 the kinds of things that
- are, constitute the 13 safeguards information and the degree to which it can 14 be discussed generally without stepping over the line 15 and disclosing safeguards information.
16 And I think we encourage, we want to 17 encourage the parties to work together on this. But 18 if we, if it cannot be revolved prior to the oral 19 argument, I don't think we need to hold up the 20 briefing that's scheduled for contingents and 21 responses.
22 And if there are any issues that the 23 parties can't work out by agreement, just in, you 24 know, good faith talking with each other, then those 25 could be brought up at that point.
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And if we need any advice, I mean, we may 2
be issuing orders which will have some parts of public 3
and some parts under seal.
4 Because we, I think we view it as our 5
responsibility to try to be as public as possible. IN 6
the recent Maine Yankee case, we were able to issue 7
decisions in, publicly, without having to have any 8
parts of it being private.
9 So, it strikes me that that's something 10 that should any disputes remain at the time of oral 11 argument, we could address those at that point.
12 Am I, does anyone see any problem with 13 proceeding in that fashion?
14 MS.
CURRAN:
- Yes, Judge Young.
My 15 understanding of the position that staff is taking is 16 that, in effect, there won't be any dispute because 17 the staff isn't going to engage us.
18 In other words, the staff isn't going to 19 give us any assistance in figuring out what we can put 20 in a public pleading. We're just going to be told do 21 it at your own risk.
22 JUDGE YOUNG: Well, I think we're going to 23 need to have some discussion, not necessarily limited 24 to what your pleadings would contain.
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various parts of the plan make it safeguards 2
information and what overall descriptions don't. Just 3
for the assistance of the Board if for nothing else.
4 And I would hope that even before that 5
time, the parties will have discussed that with each 6
other for all your benefit.
Just so that we can try 7
to keep everyone on the same page and moving along as 8
efficiently as possible, without any roadblocks that 9
are unnecessary.
10 And I think the more the parties can 11 cooperate with each other, the less, the less, well 12 the more efficiently we can conduct the proceedings.
13 MS. CURRAN: That sounds good to me, Judge 14 Young, I'm just not sure I hear the staff saying 15 they're willing to do that. Maybe we should just hear 16 from the staff.
17 JUDGE YOUNG: Mr. Fernandez 18 MR. FERNANDEZ: Yes, Your Honor.
19 JUDGE YOUNG: I'm not sure what answer I'm 20 going to get, but, I would be surprised -
21 MR. FERNANDEZ: Well, let me say something 22 real quick. The staff is advised by Counsel the same 23 way the Petitioner is. And if the staff were to come 24 with a question about whether a document was 25 safeguards information, I would do exactly the same NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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thing that Ms. Curran would do.
2 I would pull out the regulations, I would 3
read them, I would look at the document and I would 4
give my legal opinion as to whether the document is 5
safeguards or not.
6 JUDGE YOUNG: We understand and that's what 7
you said before. And what I wanted to get at, really, 8
was this.
The Board may have some concerns of its 9
own, about what types of things.
10 I think it's good to get all the parties 11 on the same page as much as possible, on the issue of 12 what types of things should be protected.
And any 13 writings that any of us do and what sorts of things, 14 what sorts of general descriptive or summary 15 description which would fall within that limitation.
16 And I'm sure that you're not going to tell 17 me that if the Board seeks assistance from the 18 security expert, for the Board's benefit in writing 19 orders, that that would be refused.
20 MR. FERNANDEZ: I don't think that's what 21 I was saying, Your Honor.
22 JUDGE YOUNG: Right.
23 MR. FERNANDEZ: What I was saying is that 24 initially when this issue came up and it seems to have 25 been changing a little bit now that we're having this NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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conversation, was Ms. Curran said that they would be 2
filing certain pleadings that contained safeguards 3
information.
And that she wanted to inform her 4
membership or her client's membership, to a different 5
document or some other type of vehicle of what it was 6
that they had done in those, in those pleadings, that 7
contained safeguard information.
8 The staff has never engaged a Petitioner 9
in a proceeding in such a fashion as to be reviewing 10 documents that would be those organization's documents 11 to determine if the organization has properly marked 12 the documents and safeguards are known safeguards.
13 JUDGE YOUNG:
And that's not what I was 14 talking about.
15 MR.
FERNANDEZ: Okay.
16 JUDGE YOUNG: Judge Baratta, are you back 17 at your phone?
18 JUDGE BARATTA: Yes.
Yes, I am.
This is 19 Judge Baratta.
I think what Judge Young and I are 20 thinking that since we're rather ignorant in what 21 constitutes safeguards and that my experience over the 22 years with security questions have often times 23 involved interpretations and such, that I think maybe 24 it might be appropriate if we were to, at the next 25 hearing, see if we could arrange to have a training NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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session for all of us on this.
2 And to have the, everybody starting out at 3
the same level, so we're thinking maybe -
4 MR. FERNANDEZ: That is a different request 5
than the one that I had initially heard. And if that 6
is the case, I need to present that to my client, 7
because I have not presented that option to my client.
8 MR.
WETTERHAHN: This is Mark Wetterhahn.
9 The Licensee has an interest in protecting its 10 safeguards information because it's Duke's safeguards 11 information in this case for the most part.
12 We would be glad to assist the Board in 13 determining what is safeguards information and what 14 should not be revealed at oral argument.
15 And we believe that interveners can take 16 their cue from that and determine on their own what is 17 safeguards and what is not safeguards.
18 JUDGE BARATTA: I appreciate that offer of 19 assistance.
I think Judge Young, Judge Elleman, do 20 you think we should pursue, as I said, having this 21 training session and also taking up the suggestion we 22 just heard of assistance?
23 JUDGE ELLEMAN: This is Judge Elleman. We 24 have the same the problem Ms. Curran has. We need to 25 know what the boundaries are.
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definitely need a session like that.
2 JUDGE YOUNG: And I think that actually, it 3
gets to an aspect of the case, which is that lawyers 4
aren't necessarily always the best experts on security 5
matters.
6 And I know that I've gotten invaluable 7
assistance in another case from a security expert and 8
I think we rely on them.
So, I agree.
I think that 9
pursuing both those avenues of clarification for all 10 our benefit would be very helpful.
11 JUDGE BARATTA: We'll discuss this on our 12 own as to how to make that come about, whether to use 13 an order or whatever I guess we have to.
14 JUDGE YOUNG: Right.
15 MR. WETTERHAHN: May I suggest with regard 16 to schedule, because of the convenience and the 17 security of facilities in the Rockville Office, I 18 suggest that the oral argument on security contentions 19 be in Rockville. And any session -
20 JUDGE YOUNG:
It would be.
21 MR. WETTERHAHN: Okay, thank you.
22 JUDGE YOUNG:
There's no question about 23 that.
The only question that we might have is that 24 our hearing room is going to be going through some 25 renovation and I'm not sure of the schedule for that.
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So if it is not available, we're going to 2
have to find another room in the NRC offices here, to 3
conduct it.
But we would conduct any sessions on 4
security issues in the Rockville office, either in our 5
hearing room or in another conference room or -
6 JUDGE BARATTA:
In secure, some sort of 7
secured facility.
8 MR. WETTERHAHN: Thank you.
9 JUDGE YOUNG: All right, then, is there 10 anything else relating to the protective order that we 11 need to discuss? Because the only other questions I 12 would have, then, before issuing it is, just from a 13 practical standpoint, I'm assuming I can go back to 14 the staff submittal and save it on to my computer.
15 Take out the draft -
16 MR. FERNANDEZ: Your Honor.
Your Honor.
17 JUDGE YOUNG: Yes, Mr. Fernandez.
18 MR. FERNANDEZ: I think you may not be able 19 to do that because we submitted as a PDF file, so it 20 won't be, you probably won't be able to manage the 21 document in such fashion.
22 JUDGE YOUNG: Maybe you would submit it in 23 WordPerfect format.
24 MR. FERNANDEZ: I will ask the Applicant to 25 send it to the Board.
They actually have the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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document, the document actually resides on their hard 2
drive and I would ask Ms. Cottingham, as I have 3
before, that in the event that you were to need it, 4
she has already offered to send it to you.
5 MR. WETTERHAHN: We will do that, Your 6
Honor.
7 JUDGE YOUNG: Thank you very much.
8 MS.
COTTINGHAM: Let me just ask Antonio 9
for clarification.
We had agreed on some additional 10 language -
11 MR. FERNANDEZ: Yes.
12 MS. COTTINGHAM:
to go into -
13 JUDGE YOUNG: That was my next question is 14 whether, since you're bringing that up, Mr., tell me 15 your name again? I apologize for not -
16 MR. WETTERHAHN: Wetterhahn.
17 JUDGE YOUNG: Wetterhahn.
W-e -
18 MR. WETTERHAHN: T-t-e-r-h-a-h-n.
19 JUDGE YOUNG: Could you incorporate, do 20 your have the language that you all have agreed to?
21 MS. CURRAN: Yes, Your Honor.
22 MR.
WETTERHAHN:
Yes.
And we will 23 incorporate that and send it to you as well as the 24 other, as to the parties.
25 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay.
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will just add something like subject to the provisions 2
of another, well, I'm not even sure I would need to 3
that.
4
- But, basically, the reference to our 5
discussion at oral
- argument, I could
- include, 6
incorporate in another order, so that unless any party 7
sees a need to include any language like that in the 8
protective order itself.
9 Ms. Curran, you're the one who raised the 10 objection.
Do you see any problem with addressing 11 your concerns in another order which would include all 12 these dates and scheduling issues?
13 MS. CURRAN: That would be all right.
14 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay.
That would probably 15 make it quicker.
And if you send it to me as 16 WordPerfect, I think I can transform Word to 17 WordPerfect, but sometimes there are problems going in 18 that direction.
19 It's easier to go from WordPerfect into 20 Word, I think.
Is it possible for you to save it in 21 WordPerfect, Mr. Wetterhahn?
22 MS. COTTINGHAM: Yes, ma'am, it is and we 23 will do that.
24 JUDGE YOUNG: Great. Thank you very much.
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do that.
And I should be able to get it out tomorrow 2
or Monday.
And then assuming, let's
- assume, if it 3
were Monday it would be December 15th, which would 4
make the deadline January 15th.
5 I believe that would be 30 days.
- Well, 6
that would actually be 31 days, would be the 14th.
7 Ms.
Curran, can you manage that?
I know we're going 8
to be having, we're talking about having oral argument 9
on the 13th.
10 MS. CURRAN: I'm sorry, can I manage what?
11 JUDGE YOUNG: The 14th?
12 MS.
CURRAN: For?
13 JUDGE YOUNG:
For your security 14 contentions, assuming we get out the order on the 15 15th?
16 MS.
CURRAN: I don't think, I would rather 17 not, it's just going to make it really hard.
18 MR.
WETTERHAHN: Your Honor, this is the 19 basis of our agreement.
20 MS. CURRAN: Yeah.
Well, I wasn't figuring 21 on going to North Carolina in the middle of it.
So, 22 I mean I was already aware that it was cut back 23 because of the holidays, but it seems like 30 days is 24 a good rule of thumb, so I stuck with it.
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have to travel, I have to prepare.
It means, umm, 2
okay, if you approved it, I guess what I, let me just 3
suggest this.
4 If we have the oral argument later in the 5
week, let's see the, you would approve it on December 6
the-7 JUDGE YOUNG: I was saying tomorrow or 8
Monday.
It depends on how quickly I get it.
But 9
assuming I did it Monday, we wanted to have some time 10 with Judge Elleman.
If we moved it forward to the 11 15th, Judge Elleman and Judge Baratta, would that, if 12 we do the same thing we do this time, would that be 13 pushing up against your schedule too much, Judge 14 Elleman?
15 JUDGE ELLEMAN: Any time that week is fine 16 with me.
17 JUDGE BARATTA: That's fine with me.
So 18 we'd have the hearing on the new contentions on the 19 13th, is that correct?
20 JUDGE YOUNG: Well, we're talking about 21 moving it over to the 15th.
She was, Ms. Curran was 22 asking if we could move that more towards the end of 23 the -
24 JUDGE BARATTA: Week.
25 JUDGE YOUNG:
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could have the beginning of the week to finish up her 2
3 JUDGE BARATTA: Right, right, I'm sorry, I 4
missed the, for some reason I was thinking that we 5
were talking about security plan. Okay, so the 15th, 6
that's fine.
7 JUDGE YOUNG: Then, let's see, 21 days.
8 Let's just, let's just set a date. If you're going to 9
be traveling on the 14th, if I issued it the 15th, it 10 will be the 14th.
11 So let's say the deadline is the 14th.
12 MS. CURRAN: Okay.
And then I wanted to 13 make a request about the oral argument.
If we could 14 agree, I will tell Dr. Lyman and my client that the 15 15th is the preferred date, but maybe if everyone 16 could look at their calendar, between the 15th and the 17 23rd, which is the date that Ms. Uttal had given and 18 see if we could all do it on some day in there that 19 would give us a little flexibility.
20 JUDGE YOUNG: Is that, was that the date 21 you gave Ms. Uttal?
22 MS. CURRAN: It was the 12th to the 23rd.
23 MS. UTTAL: It was the 12th to the 23rd, 24 that's correct.
25 JUDGE YOUNG: Twelfth to the 23rd.
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MS. UTTAL: I would note that the 19th is 2
open.
3 JUDGE YOUNG: We can't do it the week, 4
actually, I'm sorry.
Judge Elleman will not be 5
available the week of the 18th, so we need to do it 6
the week of the 12th.
7 MS. CURRAN: Okay, and the 15th is a 8
Thursday, is it?
9 JUDGE YOUNG: Umm hmm.
10 JUDGE BARATTA: That's correct.
11 JUDGE ELLEMAN: Yes, that's correct.
12 MS. CURRAN: Okay, so, say Thursday or 13 Friday, the 15th or the 16th?
14 JUDGE YOUNG: We could, if we need to go 15 over to Friday would that, I'd prefer not to, because 16 we want to have some time with Judge Elleman before he 17 leaves the country or I think that's it.
18 JUDGE ELLEMAN: Judge Young, this is Judge 19 Elleman.
I'm available, really, through the end of 20 the day on the 19th, if you had any reason to want to 21 go early in that next week.
22 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay.
23 MS. UTTAL: Judge, the 19th, is Martin 24 Luther King Day.
25 JUDGE YOUNG: Oh, okay.
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JUDGE ELLEMAN: Oh, okay, yeah, that's not 2
good.
3 JUDGE YOUNG: Well, let's try for the 15th.
4 The deadline would be the 14th, then, for the security 5
contentions.
And they would need to obviously be 6
filed in the, in the manner specified in the non-7 disclosure agreement.
8 Twenty-one days after that is February 9
4th.
10 JUDGE BARATTA: I counted the 5th, but 11 would someone else count for me?
12 JUDGE YOUNG: Well, 21 days is three weeks, 13 and three weeks from the 14th, if I'm reading my 14 calendar right, it's the 4th.
15 JUDGE BARATTA: Okay.
16 MS. CURRAN: I believe it's the 4th is -
17 JUDGEBARATTA: I've been corrected, that's 18 fine.
19 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay.
Then you had put, 20 let's see, seven to ten days after the responses. We 21 are probably going to need to, what about the 12th or 22 the 13th for the oral argument on the -
I'm sorry, 23 Judge Elleman, you're back on the 8th?
24 JUDGE ELLEMAN: I'm back on the 8th.
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3 4
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7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 609 to do that week.
Would you be able to come up here that week?
JUDGE ELLEMAN: I could.
I'm starting the week of the 9th, Monday, I'm flexible for that entire week.
And so I could come to Washington, stay in Washington, whatever.
JUDGE YOUNG:
- Okay, okay.
I'm thinking we're going to have a lot to do that week with you, and I'm thinking that it might be better to set this for the 13th.
- Now, I don't know, I don't know that any of us have any idea how many contentions, but we, I
think, could go late, if need be, on the 13th.
That's a Friday the 13th, that's not good luck.
MS.
UTTAL:
- Judge, Fridays are very problematic for me because I have no aftercare for my kids.
So I'd prefer if we did it on Thursday.
JUDGE YOUNG: The 12th? Okay, well, let's, is everyone available on the 12th of February?
MS.
CURRAN: I will check on that.
JUDGE YOUNG:
- Okay, well, we'll take a short break in a minute and you can check on both of those.
MS.
CURRAN:
Okay.
So January 15th and February 12th.
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JUDGE YOUNG: Right.
2 MR. FERNANDEZ: Your Honor, should we look 3
at February 12th and 13th, just in case we have enough 4
contentions that it may -
5 JUDGE YOUNG: That might be a good idea.
6 That might be a very good idea. Assuming, Ms. Uttal, 7
if you had to leave, Mr. Fernandez could stay for the 8
end of it on the 13th if we needed it?
9 MS. UTTAL: That's right, Your Honor.
10 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. All right. Are there 11 any other dates?
I think we've got them all or am I 12 missing any. Now, obviously the security contentions, 13 oral argument is dependent on us finding a room to do 14 it in.
15 I don't think that will be a problem in 16 this whole, these two buildings here.
17 MR. FERNANDEZ: Your Honor.
18 JUDGE YOUNG: Yes.
19 MR. FERNANDEZ: In case the Board's hearing 20 room is not available, the person to contact is 21 Cynthia Harbaugh.
22 JUDGE YOUNG: Right, okay.
23 MR. FERNANDEZ: And the requirements to 24 have, for a room to, where you can discuss safeguards, 25 are not that onerous.
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rooms that you can use.
2 JUDGE YOUNG: And, I don't guess we need to 3
have room for an audience, because it's only going to 4
be for cleared people, so, yeah.
And we work with 5
Cindy on, Ms. Harbaugh, on security issues.
6 So, I'll check and hopefully in the order 7
that's issued tomorrow or Monday, I'll indicate where 8
that will be.
Why don't we take a break now, unless 9
anyone can think of any other dates?
10 Why don't we just take two or three 11 minutes and let Ms. Curran call Mr. Lyman and make 12 sure we're all together.
And if anyone else has 13 anyone you need to call, to confirm the January 15th 14 and February 12th dates.
15 MS. CURRAN: Okay, will do.
16 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay.
17 MS. CURRAN: I'll be back.
18 JUDGE YOUNG: I'm going to put my phone 19 down and come into Judge Baratta's office.
20 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 21 went off the record at 4:18 p.m., and 22 went back on the record at 4:26 p.m.)
23 MS. CURRAN: The 15th works for us.
24 JUDGE YOUNG: What about the 12th?
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too?
2 JUDGE YOUNG: Great, okay, so I'll put 3
those two dates in.
4 MR. FERNANDEZ: Your Honor.
5 JUDGE YOUNG: Yes.
6 MR. FERNANDEZ: We will add Ms. Olson to 7
the service list for Catawba, but she --
the staff, 8
when they put somebody on the service list, she is 9
going to get all the correspondence between the 10 Licensee and the Agency on the facility.
So, it's not 11 going to distinguish between MOX or anything else, 12 everything will start going to her.
13 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay.
14 MR. FERNANDEZ: But she will be added.
15 JUDGE YOUNG: Thank you.
All right.
All 16 right, I think that pretty much covers everything. Am 17 I overlooking anything? Can anyone think of anything 18 that we need to look at?
19 Court Reporter, did you tell me that this 20 is a one-day turnaround?
21 COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry, ma'am, can you 22 repeat that?
23 JUDGE YOUNG: Could you confirm for me that 24 the transcript we're supposed to get tomorrow, one day 25 turnaround?
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COURT REPORTER: I was told that it is a 2
daily, which means yes.
3 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay, great.
Yeah, I asked 4
for that this time so we could keep things moving 5
along.
Can anyone think of anything else?
Judge 6
Elleman? Judge Baratta?
7 MS. CURRAN: Oh, Judge Young, I just wanted 8
to let you know, this is Diane Curran.
I checked 9
Adams today for that transcript and it's not there 10 yet.
11 JUDGE YOUNG: We were just talking about 12 that and I apologize for not making sure of that 13 before we started today.
I will right after we hang 14 up.
15 MS. CURRAN: Thank you.
16 JUDGE YOUNG: Judge Elleman, Judge Baratta, 17 can you think of anything else?
18 JUDGE BARATTA: I have no additional items.
19 JUDGE ELLEMAN: And I have no additional 20 items.
21 JUDGE YOUNG: Any of the participants?
22 (A chorus of nos.)
23 JUDGE YOUNG: Thank you all and, as I said, 24 I'll get an order out on this Monday, and I think 25 everyone's been keeping notes, so you'll know the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 dates.
And we appreciate your working together to make this a lot easier for us by picking most of the dates in advance. So, we will look forward to hearing from you and next seeing you on January the 15th.
Okay.
(End of call.)
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CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Duke Energy Corporation Catawba Nuclear Station Units 1 & 2 Teleconference Docket Number:
50-413-OLA and 50-414-OLA Location:
telephone conference were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
Alex Patton Official Reporter Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.
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