ML18019A843

Minutes of the Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards Regulatory Policies and Practices Subcommittee Meeting - November 15, 2017

ML18019A843
Person / Time
Site:	Clinch River
Issue date:	01/17/2018
From:	Quynh Nguyen Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards
To:	Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards
Nguyen Q
References
Download: ML18019A843 (130)

Text

UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS WASHINGTON, DC 20555

- 0001 January 17, 2018 MEMORANDUM TO:

ACRS Members FROM: Quynh Nguyen, Senior Staff Engineer

/RA/ Technical Support Branch, ACRS

SUBJECT:

CERTIFIED MINUTES OF THE ACRS REGULATORY POLICIES AND PRACTICES SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING ON NOVEMBER 15, 2017 The minutes of the subject meeting were certified on January 11, 2018, as the official record of the proceedings of that meeting. Copies of the certification letter and minutes are attached.

Attachments: As stated c c w/ att. A. Veil M. Banks UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS WASHINGTON, DC 20555 - 0001 MEMORANDUM TO:

Quynh Nguyen, Senior Staff Engineer Technical Support Branch, ACRS FROM:

SUBJECT:

Walter Ki c hner , Ch airman Regulatory Policies and Practices Subcommittee CERTIFICATION OF THE MINUTES OF THE REGULATORY POLICIES AN D PRACTICES SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING ON NOVEMBER 1 5 , 2017 I hereby certify, to the best of my knowledge and belief, that the minutes of the subject meeting are an accurate record of the proceedings for that meeting.

/RA/ January 11, 2018 Walter Kirchner, Chairman Dated Regulatory Policies and Practices Subcommittee

1 ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS MINUTES OF T HE REGULATORY POLICIES & PRACTICES SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING NOVEMBER 1 5 , 2017 The A CRS and Subcommittee hel d a meeting on November 15 , 2017 in T2-B 1 , 11545 Rockville Pike, Rockville, Maryland. T he meeting convened at 8:30 AM and adjourned at 10:39 A M. The entire meeting w as open to t he public. N o writt en comments or r equests for time to m ake oral statements w er e received from members of t he public related to this meeting. ATTENDEES ACRS Members/Consultants/Staff WALTER L. KIRCHNER, Chairman RONALD G. BALLINGER, Member DENNIS C. BLEY, Member CHARLES H. BROWN, JR. Member MICHAEL L. CORRADINI, Member*

DANA A. POWERS, Member HAROLD B. RAY, Member* PETER RICCARDELLA, Member GORDON R. SKILLMAN, Member JOHN W. STETKAR, Member MATTHEW SUNSERI, Member JOSE MARCH

-LEUBA, Member Designated Federal Official:

QUYNH NGUYEN Other Participants: FRANK AKSTULEWICZ, NRO JOSEPH COLACCINO, NRO ALLEN FETTER, NRO DON SAFER, Public Participant*

RAYMOND SCHIELE, TVA DANIEL STOUT, TVA

MALLECIA SUTTON, NRO JACK CUSHING, NRO JOSEPH ANDERSON, NSIR

2 WEIJUN WANG, NRO BRUCE MUSICO, NSIR NICHOLAS SAVWOIR, NRO DAN BARRS, NSIR ANTHONY WILSON, OGC CJ FONG, Chairman's Office PROSANTA CHOWDHURY, NRO YUAN CHENG, NRO DAVID MUSICK, FEMA ALEX YOUNG, TVA BILL EBORST, FEMA ANTHONY DEFELICE, FEMA

• Present via telephone

SUMMARY

The purpose of this meeting is a preliminary overview of Tennessee Valley Authority's (TVA) Clinch River Early Site Permit (ESP) application and a discussion of the ESP process. The meeting transcripts are attached and contain an accurate description of each matter discussed during the meeting. The presentation slides and handouts used during the meeting are attached to these transcripts.

SIGNIFICANT ISSUES Issue Reference Pages in Transcript Member Skillman asked why this plant parameter envelope (PPE) is geared towards small modular reactors (SMR). Mr. Stout of TVA stated that this demonstration

-driven project is also technologically

-innovative.

10-13 Chairman Kirchner asked if the site was essentially home to the prior Clinch River Breeder Reactor. Mr. Stout stated that most previous information was not used in developing the ESP.

14 Two contentions associated with the ESP: 1) the claim that the environmental report had not assessed the impacts of a spent fuel pool fire and (2) the claims that the environmental report includes too much information about SMR features that is inappropriate language in an environmental report

. 15-16, 41-42 To date, TVA has supported three audits: 1) hydrology, 2) seismic geotech and 3) environmental.

16 3 Member Skillman asked about potential flooding with dam failure. TVA said that Clinch River is considered a dry site.

Member Skillman also asked about residential areas in proximity of the site.

25-28, 46 Member Corradini and Chairman Kirchner discussed the plant parameter envelope. 29-34 Member Skillman asked if Part 50 versus Part 52 should be used in this application due to established regulatory knowledge.

34-37, 51-54 Member Sunseri asked about a quality assurance program for the ESP.

37 Chairman Kirchner asked about emergency planning zones (EPZs) and the associated dose

-based EPZs rulemaking activities

. 37-41, 55-61 The draft environmental impact statement (EIS) is expected to be published in June 2018.

66 In response to Chairman Kirchner's question, external stakeholders will get an opportunity to intervene if the selected technology exceeds the bounding plant parameters.

69-70 In regard to mult i-unit plants and their source term, Chairman Kirchner asked how the dose-based EPZ is established.

71-76 The staff stated that a safety evaluation with no open items is expected around June 2018.

81 Member Ray stated his support for the ESP process.

83 Mr. Safer of the Tennessee Environmental Council makes a statement offering his perspectives on the contentions.

85 Documents provided to the Subcommittee

1. "Nuclear Power Plant Licensing Process," Rev. 2, NUREG/BR

-0298, July 2004.

2. "Industry Guideline for Developing a Plant Parameter Envelope in Support of an Early Site Permit," NEI 10

-01, Rev. 0, March 2010 (ML101050329).

3. Letter to Ronald L. Simard (NEI), "Resolution of Early Site Permit Topic 6 (ESP

-6), Use of Plant Parameter Envelope (PPE) Approach", From J. E. Lyons, Director, New Reactor Licensing Project Office, Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation, February, 5, 2003.

(ML030230071).

4. M. Scott, "Processing Applications for Early Site Permits," RS

-002, May 2004 (ML040700094).

Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION Title: Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards Regulatory Policies and Practices Subcomm.

Docket Number:

(n/a) Location: Rockville, Maryland Date: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 Work Order No.:

NRC-3363 Pages 1-89 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.

Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 1 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005

-3701 (202) 234-4433 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

+ + + + + ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS (ACRS) + + + + + REGULATORY POLICIES AND PRACTICES SUBCOMMITTEE

+ + + + + WEDNESDAY NOVEMBER 15, 2017

+ + + + + ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND + + + + + The Subcommittee met at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Two White Flint North, Room T2B1, 11545 Rockville Pike, at 8:30 a.m., Walter L.

Kirchner, Chairman, presiding.

COMMITTEE MEMBERS:

WALTER L. KIRCHNER, Chairman RONALD G. BALLINGE R, Member DENNIS C. BLEY, Member CHARLES H. BROWN, JR. Member MICHAEL L. CORRADINI, Member*

2 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005

-3701 (202) 234-4433 JOSE MARCH

-LEUBA, Member DANA A. POWERS, Member HAROLD B. RAY , Member*

PETER RICCARDELLA, Member GORDON R. SKILLMAN, Member JOHN W. STETKAR, Member MATTHEW SUNSERI, Member DESIGNATED FEDERAL OFFICIAL:

QUYNH NGUYEN ALSO PRESENT:

FRANK AKSTULEWICZ, NRO JOSEPH COLACCINO, NRO ALLEN FETTER, NRO DON SAFER, Public Participant*

RAYMOND SCHIELE, TVA DANIEL STOUT, TVA MALLECIA SUTTON, NRO

• Present via telephone

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S Page Welcome Walter Kirchner, Chairman

....................

4 Frank Akstulewicz

............................

8 Early Site Permit

- Overview from TVA Dan Stout................................

....9 Ray Schiele

................................

.17 Early Site Permit

- Overview from Staff Joseph Colaccino

............................

44 Allen Fetter

................................

46 Mallecia Sutton

.............................

67 Adjourn................................

...........

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 1 (8:30 a.m.)

2 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Good morning. The 3 meeting will now come to order. This is a meeting of 4 the Regulatory Policies and Practices Subcommittee of 5 the Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards.

6 I am Walt Kirchner, Chairman of this 7 Subcommittee meeting. ACRS members in the room are 8 Ronald Ballinger, Pete Riccardella, Dick Skillman, 9 Dana Powers, Matt Sunseri, Dennis Bley, our Chairman, 10 John Stetkar, Jose March

-Leuba, and Charles Brown.

11 I believe we have on the phone Mike 12 Corradini and Harold Ray.

13 MEMBER RAY: Here.

14 MEMBER CORRADINI: Correct.

15 MEMBER RAY: Yes.

16 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Good morning. Harold 17 is on Pacific time, so thank you, Harold.

18 MEMBER RAY: I think Mike is Denver if I 19 understood it correctly.

20 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Quynh Nguyen of the 21 ACRS staff is the designated federal official for this 22 meeting. The Subcommittee will hear from 23 representatives of TVA and the staff regarding a 24 preliminary overview of TVA's Clinch River early site 25 5 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005

-3701 (202) 234-4433 permit application and a discussion of the early site 1 permit process.

2 The Subcommittee will gather information, 3 analyze relevant issues and facts, and for mulate 4 proposed positions and actions as appropriate for 5 deliberation by the Full Committee.

6 The ACRS was established by statute and is 7 governed by the Federal Advisory Committee Act, FACA.

8 This means that the Committee can only speak through 9 its publishe d letter reports.

10 We hold meetings to gather information to 11 support our deliberations. Interested parties who 12 wish to provide comments can contact our offices 13 requesting time after the meeting announcement is 14 published in the Federal Register.

15 With that s aid, we also set aside some 16 time for spur of the moment comments from members of 17 the public attending or listening to our meetings.

18 Written comments are also welcome.

19 In regard to the early site permits 10 CFR 20 52.23 provides that the Commission shall refer a copy 21 of the application to the ACRS and the Committee shall 22 report on those portions which concern safety.

23 The ACRS section of the USNRC public 24 website provides our charter, bylaws, letter reports, 25 6 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005

-3701 (202) 234-4433 and full transcripts of all Fu ll and Subcommittee 1 meetings, including slides presented at the meetings.

2 The rules for participation in today's 3 meeting were published, were previously announced in 4 the Federal Register. We have received no written 5 comments or requests for time to make oral statements 6 from members of the public regarding today's meeting.

7 We have a bridge line established for 8 interested members of the public to listen in. To 9 preclude interruption of the meeting the phone bridge 10 will be placed in the listen

-in mode during the 11 presentations and Committee discussions.

12 We will unmute the bridge line at a 13 designated time to afford the public an opportunity to 14 make a statement or provide comments.

15 At this time I would request that meeting 16 attendees and participants silence thei r cell phones 17 and any other electronic devices that are audible.

18 A transcript of the meeting is being kept 19 and will be made available as stated in the Federal 20 Register notice. Therefore, we would request that 21 participants in the meeting use the microphone s 22 located throughout the meeting room when addressing 23 the Subcommittee.

24 The participants should first identify 25 7 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 themselves and speak with sufficient clarity and 1 volume so that they may be readily heard and make sure 2 that the green light at the bottom of your microphone 3 is on before speaking and off when not in use.

4 And now we will proceed with the meeting 5 and I will call on Frank Akstulewicz, Senior Manager 6 of the New Reactors Office, to begin. Frank?

7 MR. AKSTULEWICZ: Thank you, Cha irman. I 8 appreciate the opportunity to address the Committee 9 today. My remarks will be brief.

10 I don't intend to occupy a lot of time, 11 but I do want to on behalf of the staff appreciate the 12 time that the Committee is making available for this 13 informationa l briefing.

14 Nothing today will indicate any 15 conclusions or findings about the process as we go 16 forward, it's designed to kind of provide an 17 opportunity for the Committee to ask the necessary 18 process questions about scope or detail that the staff 19 will exami ning the application during its review.

20 We will present to you the schedule for 21 when we will be ready to come to the Committee with 22 our findings on the technical subject matter and we 23 will be available to answer any questions that you 24 have today.

25 8 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 So with that my remarks are finished and I 1 turn the meeting back to you, sir.

2 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Thank you, Frank.

3 Let's see, let us now turn to Dan Stout and Ray 4 Schiele of TVA to make their presentation. Good 5 morning, gentlema n, please proceed.

6 MR. STOUT: Good morning.

7 (Off the record comments) 8 MR. STOUT: Thank you. Good morning. I 9 am happy to be here and provide an overview and 10 information about the early site permit process and 11 some details about the Clinch River site.

12 By way of background, I served in the Navy 13 and I worked 15 years in the uranium enrichment 14 industry, I worked in the Department of Energy for a 15 few years, and have been with TVA for about eight 16 years, working on the small module reactor for about 17 five years.

18 And Ray here also served below the waves 19 and has worked in the commercial nuclear industry for 20 a long time. He is the licensing manager on this 21 project. 22 And we'll move into the first slide. So 23 our early site permit application ad dresses site 24 suitability for potential construction and operation 25 9 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 of a small modular reactor nuclear power plant.

1 The early site permit application 2 contained more than 8000 pages, more than ten times 3 that in reference materials, and, you know, the meat 4 of it consists of the Site Safety Analysis Report, the 5 Environmental Report, other areas of interest include 6 Part 5, the Emergency Plans, and the Exemptions.

7 We based our plant parameter envelope that 8 is used in the early site permit application on input 9 we received from the four U.S. lightwater reactor SMR 10 designs, and that consists of Holtec, B&W mPower, 11 BWXT's mPower, NuScale, and Westinghouse.

12 So that input informed our plant parameter 13 envelope. It's bigger than that, it encompasses that 14 design input, but an early site permit plant parameter 15 envelope could accommodate another reactor. It's the 16 parameters that are being put forward.

17 We do assume that we would be deploying 18 two or more of the technology that is ultimately 19 selected. The maximum size of a uni t, 800 megawatts 20 thermal, for the site plant parameter envelope being 21 2420 megawatts thermal or 800 megawatts electric.

22 So, you know, doing the math going back, 23 you know, it could accommodate four Holtec, four 24 mPower, three Westinghouse, or 12 NuScale.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 Next. So the application is organized 1 consistent with regulatory guidance and the Standard 2 Review Plan. Next. So, you know, as we built the 3 application as expected we used contractors to support 4 us. 5 Bechtel was the lead on the Site Safety 6 Analysis Report, with some exceptions. Demography was 7 supported by Enercon, meteorology, a combination of 8 Enercon of TVA, flooding, Barge Waggoner, seismic and 9 geotech a combination of Bechtel, URS, and Rizzo, and, 10 you know, TVA performed Chap ter 13 and 17.

11 The Environmental Report, the lead was 12 AECOM. We did have some minor roles, support 13 contractors, for example, McCallum

-Turner supported on 14 a siting study.

15 Emergency Plans were supported by Enercon, 16 the enclosures, Bechtel. There was some w ithheld 17 information, TVA did that. That would be related to 18 things like identifying specific locations of cultural 19 resources, things like that. Next.

20 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Dan, let me ask this 21 question. I am Dick Skillman. You are very clear 22 that the plant parameter envelope was selected based 23 on a collage of the four currently recognized SMR 24 designs. 25 11 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 This is not intended to be a pejorative 1 question, it's a curiosity question, why didn't you 2 simply say we'd like to put 2500 or 3000 e lectrical 3 megawatts on that site, whatever the number is that 4 you would choose, and use classical that is understood 5 by the other large ESP applications, use those plant 6 parameters?

7 In other words, what is unique in your 8 choosing the plant parameter envelope solely based on 9 existing SMR thinking?

10 MR. STOUT: Great question. You know, one 11 of the reasons that we are pursuing small modular 12 reactors is at a higher level, you know, TVA supports 13 technology innovation, you know, advanced reactors 14 that are safer, that have more flexibility in terms of 15 siting, in terms of operability, the kind of thing 16 that we would like to have options for future 17 deployment, and so we deliberately targeted deployment 18 of SMR not deployment of 2000 megawatts.

19 So this is, you know, if you go to our 20 environmental report and the purpose and needs 21 statement is to demonstrate SMR technology and the 22 ability to incrementally deploy, the ability to 23 realize and demonstrate some of these safety features, 24 the ability to s upport the Department of Energy, one 25 12 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 of the key customers that is located right beside us 1 with features that you have to design that, you know, 2 could accommodate underground transmission to them to 3 increase the Department of Energy's reliability, 4 resiliency for important loads to them, things like 5 that. 6 So that was built in and designed up 7 front, and, frankly, if you go to our integrated 8 resource plan at TVA we don't need a bunch of 9 megawatts in the Oak Ridge vicinity, so this is a 10 demonstration

-based proje ct. 11 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Daniel, thank you.

12 MR. STOUT: Yes, sir.

13 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Thanks.

14 MEMBER RICCARDELLA: Could you accommodate 15 a non-LWR? 16 MR. STOUT: In theory, yes, but I would 17 expect that if you looked at a non

-lightwater reactor 18 and analyzed it against the parameters that there 19 would be certain source term elements that aren't 20 bounded and, therefore, you would have to re

-analyze. 21 But we didn't have enough information on 22 any non-lightwater designs. We were looking at risks, 23 t iming, et cetera, and made the decision to focus on 24 getting the input from the lightwater reactor vendors 25 13 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 that were further along in their design and able to 1 answer our questions and feed into the development of 2 the plant parameter envelope template, you k now, so 3 that was the logic.

4 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Dan, just on Pete's 5 question going back, you know, in previous times, this 6 is essentially the same site that was identified for 7 the Clinch River Breeder Reactor, right?

8 MR. STOUT: Correct.

9 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER:

Is there any residual 10 information from that that's relevant to your 11 application or you just started, assumed a, pardon my 12 saying a green field, and start over again from 13 scratch? 14 MR. STOUT: Great question. Yes, I don't 15 have anything in this presentation to talk about that, 16 but the status of the breeder reactor, they had 17 excavated the hole and had begun doing some of the 18 base mat work when that project ended and

-- There was 19 a lot of work done by DOE in that timeframe, core 20 borings, for example.

21 But we didn't have the pedigree, the QA 22 controls over the core borings, for example, we 23 couldn't put it all together, and so we used that 24 information to inform our boring plan, but we didn't 25 14 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 rely on those

-- 1 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Bor ing did that, yes.

2 MR. STOUT:

-- so it's been helpful, there 3 is a lot of characterization, but it's not relied upon 4 in the early site permit application.

5 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Thank you.

6 MR. STOUT: Yes. So this is on Slide 6, a 7 chronology of TVA's SMR development activities. Work 8 began back in 2009. At that time TVA had agreed to 9 align with B&W and pursue a construction permit 10 application for mPower reactors.

11 And so the site characterization work 12 kicked off the following year, 2010, 2014 B&W decided 13 to slow down its spending and TVA decided to pursue 14 this technology neutral early site permit approach.

15 It was a way to continue to advance 16 development of small modular reactors without being 17 locked in on the pace of development of a specific 18 vendor. 19 And ou r application was submitted to the 20 NRC in May. There was a robust review process in 21 December. The NRC accepted the application. Audits 22 were performed in the March to kind of current 23 timeframe.

24 The Atomic Safety and Licensing Boar d 25 15 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 stood up and formed in June. There were interveners 1 that filed contentions. The Board admitted two of 2 those contentions in October.

3 MEMBER BLEY: Can you tell us about those 4 two and what you have to do to address them?

5 MR. STOUT: I can tell you about the two. 6 MEMBER BLEY: That's fair enough.

7 MR. STOUT: The Southern Alliance for 8 Clean Energy and TEC have two contentions that were 9 admitted, one was associated with

-- They alleged

-- 10 I'm sorry?

11 MEMBER BROWN: Who is TEC?

12 MR. STOUT: I forget the

-- 13 MEMB ER BROWN: Tennessee Environmental 14 Coalition?

15 MR. STOUT: Something like that.

16 MEMBER BROWN: I can make up

-- Give me 17 some letters and I'll give you

-- 18 (Laughter) 19 MEMBER BROWN: I just thought I'd give it 20 a shot and see if we

-- 21 MALE PARTICIPANT: It may not be the real 22 name, but

-- 23 MEMBER BROWN: Ah, whatever, I just 24 thought -- 25 16 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 MR. AKSTULEWICZ: If I can help, it's 1 Tennessee Environmental Council.

2 MR. STOUT: Thank you.

3 MEMBER BROWN: Oh, not bad.

4 MALE PARTICIPANT: Two out of thre

e. 5 MEMBER BROWN: Two out of three.

6 MR. STOUT: Thank you.

7 MEMBER BROWN: Thank you.

8 MR. STOUT: So one of them is associated 9 with the claim that our environmental report had not 10 assessed the impacts of a spent fuel pool fire and the 11 other claims that our environmental report includes 12 too much information, it includes information about 13 SMR features and that is inappropriate language in an 14 environmental report.

15 MEMBER BLEY: Okay, thanks.

16 MEMBER BROWN: Thank you.

17 MR. STOUT: So, Ray, why don't you give an 18 overview of the audits and the stuff that's been going 19 on here in 2017.

20 MR. SCHIELE: Okay. We supported, TVA 21 supported three audits. There was a hydrology audit 23 MALE PARTICIPANT: Oh, microphone.

24 MR. SCHIELE: Sorry. TVA suppo rted three 25 17 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 audits. The first was the hydrology, the second was 1 seismic geotech, the third was environmental. The 2 audits took about a duration of four weeks in 5

-week 3 period. 4 Out of those audits 240 information needs 5 were responded to within approximately 30 days of the 6 closure of the audits. Since then ten formal RAIs 7 have been issued. We have responded to nine, the 8 tenth was just issued last week.

9 The results of the information needs and 10 the RAIs will be reflected in a Revision 1 to the 11 application which will be presented to the NRC in 12 December. 13 MEMBER BROWN: Who were the information 14 needs submitted by?

15 MR. SCHIELE: The NRC.

16 MEMBER BROWN: Oh, that's an NRC, okay.

17 MR. SCHIELE:

-- to TVA as part of the 18 audits. 19 MEMBER BROWN: I was just thinking RAIs.

20 I had never heard the term "information needs" so 21 that's why I asked.

22 MR. SCHIELE: Yes.

23 MEMBER BROWN: Thank you.

24 MR. STOUT: From our perspective it's been 25 18 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 a very efficient review process and the NRC does their 1 homework up front, gives us the information needs that 2 they have during an audit, and we get them prepared so 3 that when they come in the door during the audit there 4 is a productive engagement during that window period.

5 So materials are prepared in advance to 6 address the inf ormation needs.

7 MR. SCHIELE: And these audits were not 8 just in a classical classroom environment, they 9 consisted of meetings in the Knoxville Towers but also 10 in the field.

11 So all three audits part of the audit was 12 going to the field, seeing dams, geologic formations, 13 a lot of the things that supported the information 14 need discussions, you know, back in a classical 15 environment, so they were very productive.

16 MR. STOUT: You know, borings is a good 17 example. You know, they wanted to see certain 18 features in the core borings. Well, they are all in a 19 trailer in boxes and they are heavy, so, you know, 20 weeks in advance we rearrange and lay things out and 21 so when they are there there are the borings that they 22 wanted to see. So stuff like that.

23 MEMBER MARCH

-LEUBA: So speaking of 24 audits, I see you don't have anything planned for next 25 19 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 year to resolve the open items, but do you expect to 1 have them or is

-- 2 MR. STOUT: I can't wait for you to ask 3 that question in a few minutes. No, we're staffed and 4 ready and able to respond to any of the needs that the 5 NRC has. 6 You know, so at the moment there is no 7 identified known open items that need to be addressed 8 that we're working on. However, we are ready, 9 willing, and able to address any needs that they have 10 during that review period.

11 MEMBER MARCH

-LEUBA: Yes. Without knowing 12 the details I see a really long red line in 2018 with 13 nothing going on, which obviously

-- 14 (Simultaneous speaking) 15 MR. STOUT: I'm confident that the NR C 16 will explain all of the drafting and stuff that is 17 going to be happening during that period.

18 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: So, Dan, while that is 19 up, so it looks like you expect to have the SER with 20 open items by the end of this calendar year, is that 21 pretty much on time? Is that

-- 22 MR. STOUT: So, you know, we get this 23 information from the NRC website on their schedule and 24 -- 25 20 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Yes. Yes, more 1 correctly I should ask the NRC, but

-- 2 MR. STOUT: Now so far they have been 3 ex ecuting on schedule.

4 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay.

5 MALE PARTICIPANT: Frank's got something.

6 MR. AKSTULEWICZ: So, Chairman, I think 7 the calendar would show the SE with no open items for 8 the end of calendar '18, so a year from just about now 9 we would be

-- 10 CHA IRMAN KIRCHNER: No, with open items.

11 MR. AKSTULEWICZ: With open items, yes.

12 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: So we would probably 13 receive that from you somewhere around the beginning 14 of January?

15 MR. AKSTULEWICZ: That's kind of plan is 16 early, beginning 2018 we would start engaging with the 17 Committee on setting up timelines for meetings on the 18 different subject matter.

19 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay, right. So this 20 is not the official NRC calendar, it's my fishing 21 calendar, but looking at it it looks like, just 22 eyeballing t hat, so you're looking at March or so to 23 interact with the Committee, just so that we can start 24 planning? 25 21 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 MR. AKSTULEWICZ: We'll have the detailed 1 discussions in our presentation

-- 2 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay, all right. We 3 can take that up in your presentation.

4 MR. AKSTULEWICZ:

-- but it's a little 5 later than that.

6 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay, thank you. Keep 7 going, Dan.

8 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Chairman, are you 9 suggesting that the calendar that you presented should 10 be adapted to trout sea son, opening

-- 11 (Laughter) 12 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Is that what you are 13 suggesting?

14 (Off microphone comment) 15 MALE PARTICIPANT: That's good. Next.

16 MR. STOUT: Okay, so, you know, this slide 17 shows you the extent of the NRC activity trips to the 18 Tennessee Valley, the various topics and the frequency 19 of engagement, so it's been an extensive review 20 process, a lot of it in pre

-application space.

21 Next. So, the site, the site is the site 22 of the former Breeder Reactor project. It is a 1200

-23 acre parcel. The land is on the Clinch River arm of 24 the Watts Bar Reservoir.

25 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 It is within the City of Oak Ridge in 1 Roane County, Tennessee, and the land butts up against 2 the Department of Energy, so they are an immediate 3 neighbor. 4 Towns nearby, Kingston is ab out seven 5 miles away, Harriman and Lenoir City are about nine 6 miles away, Knoxville is about 27 miles away, the city 7 center of Oak Ridge is about ten miles away, and this 8 land is owned by the United States of America and 9 managed by TVA as an agent of the federal government.

10 Next. So this is a bigger view. You can 11 see things like the Knoxville Airport.

12 MEMBER CORRADINI: Can I

-- If I might 13 just ask a quick question. For the original CRBR 14 plant what was the size of the output, the thermal 15 output of that plant since it's the same site, because 16 there was a site characterization back in the '70s for 17 that? 18 MR. STOUT: Three hundred?

19 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: This is Walt. I 20 remember 350 megawatts electric.

21 MEMBER CORRADINI: Okay, all right. I 22 thought it was

-- 23 CH AIRMAN KIRCHNER: In that ballpark, 24 about 800 to, 800 plus megawatts thermal.

25 23 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 MEMBER CORRADINI: Okay, thank you.

1 MR. STOUT: Thank you. So on this Slide 2 10 I'm trying to show, you know, some of the key roads 3 and the features. The Oak Ridge Reservation is 4 colored with the purplish hashmarks and the site 5 itself is that pinkish color.

6 There is a section in there that is brown, 7 that's an area that we have designated as habitat 8 protection and it's, you know, on the order of 265 9 acres. 10 So when we look at what area we would 11 disturb as part of the construction and the lay down 12 and the actual physical location of the plant it's 13 within a 930

-acre section of the Clinch River site.

14 Interstate 40 runs about a mile from the 15 center of the site. You know, you can see on this map 16 the Knoxville Airport, to get some orientation, you 17 know, it's about a 20 to 25 minute drive from the 18 airport to the site, that kind of thing. Next.

19 MEMBER RICCARDELLA: I'm sorry, I didn't 20 see the brown. You said the area was brown on the

-- 21 MALE PARTICIPANT: They can see it better 22 on this one.

23 MEMBER RICCARDELLA: You said the area 24 with the habitat was brown?

25 24 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 MR. STOUT: So, yes, you can see it better 1 on this next slide here, 11. The area that's got the 2 green hashes is the habitat protection area

-- 3 MEMBER RICCARDELLA: Okay, okay. All 4 right, yes, thank you.

5 MR. STOUT:

-- up along what's called 6 Grassy Creek. So if you ever, you know, the site is, 7 it's a big peninsula and, you know, there is n o 8 development on there.

9 It was disturbed back in the '70s and '80s 10 from the Breeder Reactor project, so, you know, it's 11 been engineered and it's level in a lot of the area.

12 I don't have a slide that shows this, but, 13 you know, when we talked about the forme r Breeder 14 Reactor, the work, the hole was partially filled in, 15 so, you know, they had excavated down to about 80 feet 16 and then they filled back in about 40, so there is 17 what we affectionately termed "The Big Hole" on site.

18 We decided to not have the base mat over 19 top of the old base mat kind of thing. We have moved 20 slightly to the east on the site to avoid that area, 21 plenty of room, and, you know, if in the Spring when 22 we get into the more detailed briefings, you know, 23 we'll show you that, show you the core boring kind of 24 information, but, you know, this is the overview and 25 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 more about the process.

1 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Before you change

-- 2 MR. STOUT: Yes?

3 MEMBER SKILLMAN:

-- let me ask this. Not 4 far from the proposed site is the Melton Hill Dam, 103 5 feet high from what would be the water level at the 6 plant site of the Clinch River.

7 How has that Dam's elevation been factored 8 into the acceptability of this site?

9 MR. STOUT: In terms of the flood 10 analysis, you know, there is a dam f ailure analysis 11 and it's all included in that. This is a dry site, 12 you know, so in the flood analysis with wind, wave, 13 runup, you know it is a dry site.

14 So there is a pretty big elevation change 15 from the river up to the top of the site.

16 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Can you give us an idea 17 of how big "pretty big" is?

18 MR. STOUT: I don't have that number 19 offhand. 20 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Maybe in the next 21 briefing. 22 MR. STOUT: Yes.

23 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Thank you.

24 MR. STOUT: Yes, thank you. Next slide.

25 26 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 M R. AKSTULEWICZ: It's approximately 20 1 feet -- 2 (Off microphone comment) 3 MR. AKSTULEWICZ:

-- of freeboard after 4 flooding. 5 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Say again, please.

6 MR. AKSTULEWICZ: It's about 20 feet 7 freeboard after the flood.

8 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Oh. Frank, tha nk you. 9 MR. AKSTULEWICZ: Yes, sir.

10 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Thank you.

11 MR. STOUT: Okay, thanks. So on this 12 Slide 12 kind of pointed to a couple of the more, the 13 features of interest. So on the upper left there is a 14 potential barge landing site.

15 It is a barge landing that was constructed 16 many decades ago and could be refurbished and used.

17 The plant discharge location is, it's right where the 18 500 KV transmission line intersects the river. I do 19 have a couple of

-- Sure? 20 (Off microphone comment) 21 MR. STOUT: Yes, so that's the plant 22 discharge. Here, I'll drive. So this is the big 23 hole, the former excavation of the Breeder Reactor.

24 There is still there a crane pad from, just by the 25 27 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 pointer, used for the construction of the breeder.

1 You know, there is some engineered 2 features, stormwater retention. So like if you are 3 driving down this road and you kind of look over the 4 edge here you can see there is a big pond down there.

5 This is the location of the former MET 6 tower. The MET tower was very old and had some FAA 7 violations. It has been taken down and there would 8 need to be a new MET tower erected. but, you know, we 9 used it to get an adequate amount of date.

10 So this is a 161 KV transmission line that 11 also intersects the site. This is Interstate 40 down 12 there at the bottom right corner. These are the 13 project trailers.

14 We've got two trailers that were used when 15 we were doing the more significant work, site 16 characterization, and core borings are stored right 17 there. 18 Further u p river is the planned intake 19 structure. You can see a ravine and you can probably 20 follow that ravine and this area of the river is 21 fairly deep, a good location to have the intake 22 structure.

23 And, you know, Oak Ridge National Labs 24 kind of main campus complex is about two miles from 25 28 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 this location.

1 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Would you say something, 2 please, about what appear to be residential dwellings?

3 If the Interstate 40 is within a mile of the proposed 4 site then it appears as though there are residences 5 and farms closer than that.

6 MR. STOUT: Sure. Yes, there are, and I 7 forget the number, but, you know, several hundred that 8 live within a couple miles of the site. You know, we 9 have identified the maximally exposed individual, we 10 have identified the residences that would be the most 11 impacted if there were, you know, an effluent tank 12 release. 13 So, you know, and the prevailing winds 14 taken into consideration. So when we come back in the 15 Spring we'll talk to those locations, those 16 residences.

17 ME MBER SKILLMAN: Okay, thank you.

18 MR. STOUT: Next. So we used the 19 following guidance documents to inform the development 20 of the early site permit application, Part 52, Subpart 21 A, Reg Guide 1206, NUREG

-0800, RS-002, and other 22 applicable regulatory guidance , interim staff 23 guidance, et cetera.

24 So what is a plant parameter envelope? It 25 29 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 is a composite of reactor and engineer parameters that 1 bound the safety and environmental impacts of the 2 construction and the operation of the plant, an d, you 3 know, as you take these various features, you know, 4 for example, what will be the depth, you know, so some 5 of them have very preliminary designs of how deep the 6 embedment might be and we take all those answers and 7 then say, well, could they change t heir mind and go 8 deeper, and so you can build in some contingency and 9 you select your it could be as deep as depth.

10 And then you take, you know, highest 11 height, you know, do they have facilities above grade, 12 how high above grade, and from a visual impact, 13 aircraft impact, you know, so you end up with the 14 tallest component maybe coming from one vendor and the 15 deepest maybe coming from another and at the end of 16 the day it's a parameter envelope, it could be as high 17 as this, could be as low as that.

18 Similarly, on your, you know, heat 19 discharge into the river, and things like that. So

-- 20 MEMBER CORRADINI: So can you just

-- I 21 know that

-- Excuse me, I just wanted to, I think I 22 understand your point. Can you give us some idea of 23 this ra nge that you are speaking about from the "for 24 example" vendors that you are considering or using as 25 30 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 guidance, or as ways to determine a parameter 1 envelope? 2 MR. STOUT: Well, so I expect we'll come 3 back in the Spring and have lots of detail on the 4 plant parameter envelope used, but let me hit thermal 5 discharge through the river.

6 I described earlier 2420 megawatts 7 thermal, but there is no design that we are 8 considering that is anywhere near that. You know, if 9 we used 12 NuScale modules that totals on the ord er of 10 600 megawatts electric, not 800 electric.

11 And so the envelope is the value that we 12 ultimately select that was informed by these four 13 designs that often has built in some conservatism.

14 It's a process that allows the continued development 15 of the desig ns and then can accommodate fitting them 16 into the parameters.

17 You know, there is a whole other licensing 18 step, the COLA, that will review does this design fit 19 within the parameters that were selected, and so we 20 tried to build in margin to accommodate if wh at if 21 they do an uprate during the design process.

22 So mPower started off as 125 megawatts and 23 then it went to a 180 and before they quit it was 195.

24 So, you know, with that kind of uncertainty it is 25 31 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 imprudent and from our perspecti ve to build a 1 parameter envelope that can accommodate multiple 2 designs, multiple potential changes.

3 MEMBER CORRADINI: Okay, thank you.

4 MR. STOUT: You're welcome.

5 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Dan, looking at the 6 four different concepts at this point are you finding 7 any one particular or one that is stretching that 8 envelope so that, for example, underground given your 9 site characteristics or thermal discharge or any right 10 now? 11 I can understand what you'll do and put 12 some conservatisms in place to bound it, but is there 13 any one thing about

-- Let me put it on the site, not 14 on the designs, is there any one aspect that is at 15 this point appears to be a constraint or do you have a 16 lot of margin and flexibility?

17 MR. STOUT: You almost have to do it in 18 the details and do it parameter by parameter basis.

19 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Exactly.

20 MR. STOUT: You know, seismic is always 21 going to be, you know, the devil in the detail, you 22 know, at what frequency, et cetera, and so, you know, 23 we'll -- You almost have to wait until you see the SER 24 and we'll come back and we'll do a more thorough 25 32 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 briefing and getting into the technical parameters.

1 You know, but generally there is a feature 2 of a design that created the boundary, you know, and 3 so three Westinghouse units was the highest thermal 4 output. 5 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Right.

6 MR. STOUT: Their design is yea mature, 7 and so, you know, we did the best we could to 8 accommodate as many as three Westinghouse units. Now 9 at the end of the day if they continue developing 10 the ir design and if we actually go forward with a 11 COLA, you know, we have lots of options.

12 We could elect to deploy two, all right, 13 which takes you way away from the parameter boundaries 14 in many of the features.

15 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Right.

16 MR. STOUT: So does that help explain

-- 17 (Simultaneous speaking) 18 MR. STOUT:

-- parameter boundaries?

19 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: At this point your PPE 20 hasn't really been firmed up in great detail. We'll 21 see that in the, later down the road, or is your 22 application already bound

-- 23 (Simultaneous speaking) 24 MR. STOUT: Hey, the plant parameter 25 33 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 envelope is nailed down.

1 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: It is, okay.

2 MR. STOUT: But what isn't nailed down is 3 what we would ultimately go build.

4 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay, fine.

5 MR. STOUT: Thank you. So there is a 6 process that was developed by NEI and they have a 7 template that is used to develop this plant parameter 8 envelope. 9 That template was approved by the NRC. We 10 use it as a basis and then when you get into the 11 details you have to go even beyond the template.

12 So, but, you know, the reactor parameters 13 like the core power and the owner

-engineered 14 parameters, the selection of grade and how it impacts 15 flooding and, you know, site information, that can be 16 like your MET data, and site characteristics, that 17 would be your X/Q atmospheric dispersion, and, you 18 know, it all gets built in the envelope. How am I 19 doing on time?

20 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Fine.

21 MR. STOUT: Okay. So in terms of building 22 in the conservatism, we do that to accommodate the 23 future decisions with some flexibility. You know, we 24 are paying attention to documenting the conservatisms 25 34 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005

-3701 (202) 234-4433 that help you when you get into that COLA phase.

1 An early site permit works well with the 2 Part 52 process. We had talked about how we started 3 off with a construction permit application with 4 mPower, you know, so we thought about, you know, would 5 we ever do a construction permit application, well, it 6 doesn't preclude you from using the early site permit, 7 but it certainly doesn't fit well together, and so our 8 current vision is to follow the Part 52 process.

9 Next. So at the conclusions, you know, 10 TVA is serious about exploring the alternative 11 generation opt ions and advancing technology 12 innovation.

13 We believe in nuclear and we believe that 14 advanced reactors have some hope and promise of 15 improving safety, of meeting other goals in terms of 16 cost, in terms of operational, employment flexibility, 17 it is valid for up to 20 years.

18 So it would reduce the future risk 19 associated with a COLA because the siting and the 20 environmental matters would have some finality in 21 advance. 22 And we are also addressing some policy 23 issues such as appropriately

-sized emergency planning 24 zones. So that wraps up the presentation. Any other 25 35 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 questions?

1 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Yes, sir. Let me ask 2 you to go back a slide, please. Back up. A 3 convoluted question, but let me make my point first 4 and then address, and then presen t the question.

5 We have dealt with Part 50 applications, 6 and some of us basically our whole professional lives, 7 30, 40, 50 years, and we are dealing with Part 52 8 licenses in the last decade.

9 One of the lessons at least that I 10 consider most important from our Part 52 experience is 11 coming to the recognition that you don't know what you 12 don't know. You don't know what you don't know.

13 So we go ahead and we forge hundreds of 14 thousands of professional hours at the staff and 15 licensees and the vendor and we hatch this design we 16 believe to be capable, fit for duty, precisely what we 17 want it to be in accordance with the regulation and, 18 ah ha, we find a subtle detail that has the potential 19 to cause the whole house of cards to collapse.

20 We found this in a couple of areas and 21 well intending people, very smart people, have been 22 able to remedy this, but it's a lesson that I think 23 that most of us have learned in dealing with Part 52, 24 whereas as wormlike and slow as Part 50 is we develop 25 36 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 an increasingly competent database of understanding of 1 what the design is ultimately going to be and then 2 when we go to the construction process we end up 3 getting precisely what we want, more so, in fact, than 4 perhaps in a Part 52 license.

5 Here is my question. On an S MR design 6 that has never been built before, it is truly a 7 concept, wouldn't we, wouldn't you be wiser to follow 8 a Part 50 track than a Part 52 track because of the 9 risks that are associated with what are most certainly 10 new technologies being presented by t he SMRs? 11 I am not suggesting they are less safe. I 12 am suggesting that the metered approach under Part 50 13 might in fact be an advantage for where you want to go 14 with this technology exploration journey that you are 15 on with what could be several SMRs.

16 So my question is, now might it not be 17 wiser for you to pursue a Part 50 approach than a Part 18 52 approach?

19 MR. STOUT: Valid points. Rest assured we 20 have had many internal debates over this very question 21 and, you know, we haven't made the decision yet. You 22 know, we watch what's going on with Vogtle and others 23 and, you know, are trying hard as an industry to 24 identify and address lessons learned.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 So, you know, ITAAC is a good example. A 1 lot of work has been done by the SMR community to t ry 2 to streamline, simplify the ITAAC process or, you 3 know, address some of the lessons learned from what 4 has been going on.

5 And, you know, is that going to be better, 6 is a new and improved Part 52 process going to be 7 better than Part 50? I don't know. I know that on 8 the financial side and on the legal side the risks 9 associated with the Part 50 process are still out 10 there and, you know, maybe that would work out better, 11 I don't know.

12 So we haven't made the decision yet, but 13 the points that you make are goi ng to be re

-discussed 14 again before we make our final go

-forward decision.

15 MEMBER RICCARDELLA: So the early site 16 permit would permit either a Part 50 or a Part 52 17 application?

18 MR. STOUT: Yes, a CPA can use the 19 information in the early site permit in theor

y. 20 MEMBER RICCARDELLA: Okay.

21 MEMBER SUNSERI: I got a question for you.

22 MEMBER RICCARDELLA: Thank you, Daniel.

23 MEMBER SUNSERI: Question over here.

24 MR. STOUT: Yes?

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 MEMBER SUNSERI: Have you established a 1 quality assurance program yet for this part of the 2 project and if not when do you anticipate establishing 3 a quality assurance program?

4 MR. STOUT: So we have a quality assurance 5 program that was used for the early site permit 6 application. It was based on TVA's existing qua lity 7 assurance program.

8 Work done to gather data that is safety

-9 related, like the core borings, the vendors were using 10 NQA-1, so we haven't made the decision but we are 11 thinking right now about in a COLA what will we do 12 and, you know, so that's

-- I expect it will be 13 different and, you know, that QAPD for COLA 14 development could very well be NQA

-1 right out of the 15 gate. 16 So that's how the data was gathered for 17 the early site permit and the future hasn't been 18 decided yet.

19 MEMBER SUNSERI: Thanks.

20 CHAIRMAN KIR CHNER: Dan, could you address 21 I think it's your last bullet, yes. What is your 22 approach on "appropriately sized EPZs," emergency 23 planning zones?

24 MR. STOUT: So the application contains a 25 39 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 methodology in SSAR Chapter 13.3 that is well defined 1 and it moves towards a dose

-based EPZ size and we have 2 asked for exemption from the current 10

-mile one size 3 fits all number and a shift to this dose

-based 4 approach and a dose

-based approach informed by EPA 5 Protective Action Guidelines, one rem, you know. 6 So with that construct in mind it's to use 7 that 13.3 methodology to determine what the 8 appropriate size is. Now in the early site permit 9 application is when we are getting that methodology 10 reviewed. 11 In a COLA we'll take a specific design and 12 us e the specific, you know, X/Q information 13 atomospheric dispersion and that methodology and 14 determine what that size is.

15 So in anticipation of the results we 16 expect that at least one of the designs could 17 accommodate a site boundary and we expected that all 18 of the designs that we were considering could work 19 with a 2-mile. 20 So we took the time to develop the major 21 features of both, a site boundary and a 2

-mile 22 emergency plan, and included them in Part 5 as Part 5A 23 and Part 5B.

24 So we are asking the NRC to review those 25 40 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 major features with the idea that if we're right when 1 we get to a COLA if we, using that 13.3 methodology, 2 analyze and calculate that we can meet the criteria at 3 the site boundary then we could incorporate by 4 reference the major features into the COLA. So that's 5 the approach we have taken.

6 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Without details, if 7 you drew a 2

-mile radius around your, approximately a 8 2-mile radius around your perspective site, how much, 9 it looks like you would control most of t hat -- 10 (Simultaneous speaking) 11 MR. STOUT: No

-- 12 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: No?

13 MR. STOUT: You know, there is a

-- 14 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: A good half of it is 15 out below the river and outside of the reservation, so 16 to speak? 17 MR. STOUT: Yes. I mean, back to the ma p, 18 we had residences, I mean they, you know

-- 19 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Yes, okay.

20 MR. STOUT: So, yes, what we learned in 21 the development of these two different emergency plans 22 and the exemption request is there is a big difference 23 from site boundary to one fo ot off the site.

24 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Right.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 MR. STOUT: And from 2

-mile to 10

-mile 1 there is not that much difference.

2 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Yes.

3 MR. STOUT: You know, so the programs that 4 you need for emergency planning are, they exist 5 whether it's two miles or ten miles.

6 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Right. It looks like 7 two miles notionally includes Interstate 40, for 8 example. 9 MR. STOUT: Yes.

10 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay. All right. Is 11 that your presentation, Dan?

12 MR. STOUT: Yes, sir.

13 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay. Questions from 14 the -- 15 MEMBER BROWN: A thought I remembered from 16 earlier is that you were going to say something about 17 the two contentions. You said on a later slide I'm 18 going to -- Somebody asked about what were the 19 subjects of th e contentions.

20 MR. STOUT: And I

-- So -- 21 MEMBER BROWN: And I must have missed it.

22 MR. STOUT: No problem.

23 MEMBER BROWN: But I think I was awake, 24 unusual as that may be.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 MR. STOUT: One is the claim that our 1 environmental report does not contain any information 2 about spent fuel pool fires.

3 MEMBER BROWN: I got that part.

4 MR. STOUT: The other one is that we 5 included too much information in the environmental 6 report -- 7 MEMBER BROWN: I didn't read that one as a 8 contention. I can't b elieve somebody thought there 9 was too much information. So, that's fine, I didn't 10 read that one as a contention, I just thought that was 11 extra information.

12 (Simultaneous speaking) 13 MEMBER RICCARDELLA: What was the 14 contention, that it was promotional that you were 15 promoting it or something, is that what

-- 16 (Simultaneous speaking) 17 MR. STOUT: That there was information

-- 18 So I talked about how part of the purpose and need is 19 to demonstrate the technology, to demonstrate the

-- 20 enhance safety features.

21 So some of that was described, but an 22 early site permit application is not required to do 23 energy alternatives analysis, need for power analysis, 24 et cetera, and those were not addressed in our early 25 43 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 site permit application.

1 Those ar e, you know, deferred till COLA.

2 And so the intervener's claim that we included 3 information in the environmental report that was 4 inappropriate.

5 MEMBER RICCARDELLA: That's why I didn't 6 view it as a contention, so I thought I missed one.

7 Thank you.

8 CHAIRM AN KIRCHNER: Okay. So let's 9 quickly go around the table. Ron?

10 (Off microphone comment) 11 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Well, I wanted to get 12 any questions of Dan or Ray while they are still here.

13 Are there any further questions?

14 (No audible response) 15 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay. So thank you 16 very much.

17 MR. STOUT: Thank you.

18 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: That was much less 19 than the allotted time. I am going to take the 20 Chairman's preogative and call a break until 20 of ten 21 and hopefully our Chairman, who is off visiting 22 another Chairman, I believe, will be back by that 23 time. So we are recessed until 20 of ten by this 24 clock. 25 44 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 (Whereupon, the above

-entitled matter went 1 off the record at 9:25 a.m. and resumed at 9:41 a.m.)

2 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay, we are back in 3 session, and now we will turn to the staff with Joseph 4 Colaccino making some opening comments. Please 5 proceed, Joe.

6 MR. COLACCINO: Thank you very much. My 7 name is Joe Colaccino

-- 8 (Off microphone comments) 9 MR. COLACCINO: Ah, thank you. So I guess 10 that tells me I haven't presented for an ACRS in 11 awhile. 12 MEMBER BALLINGER: Well, it just means you 13 are too close to me.

14 MR. COLACCINO: So my name is Joe 15 Colaccino. I am Chief of the Licensing Branch III in 16 the Division of New Reactor Licensing in the Office of 17 New Reactors.

18 My Branch has responsibility for the 19 Clinch River project, both the safety review, which 20 Allen Fetter, who is the lead project manager, and 21 Mallecia Sutton, who is his backup on the safety 22 review, will be presenting to you thi s morning.

23 I also have responsibility for the 24 development of the Environmental Impact Statement. I 25 45 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 want to acknowledge my other team, Tami Dozier and Pat 1 Vokoun who are in the audience as well.

2 We are very much busy with the review of 3 this project going forward. Allen will talk to you 4 about our schedule, the four

-phase schedule that we 5 are undergoing and future ACRS actions that we have in 6 his presentation.

7 I also want to let you know that we were 8 listening to the first part of the presentation. We 9 do know that you had a number of questions. We will 10 try to answer as many of those questions as we can.

11 However, we are still conducting the, you 12 know, we still are underway with our safety review but 13 we will try our best as we can as w e go through. If 14 you do want us to answer those questions please bring 15 them up. 16 We are also going to be assisted by Mr.

17 Jack Cushing from the Environmental Technical Support 18 Branch, he is in the audience as well. He is involved 19 in the review of previous early site permit 20 applications and the review of industry guidance that 21 was mentioned earlier by TVA in this presentation.

22 Jack's got extensive experience with that, with early 23 site permits.

24 My experience, I have been with the NRC 25 46 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 for much longer than I would like to mention and I 1 have been working on new reactor work since 2003, 2 design certification, COLs, early site permits, and a 3 number of reactor guidance, maybe, and including Reg 4 Guide 1206, which a lot of the applications are based 5 upon. 6 So with that introduction I would like to 7 turn it over to Allen.

8 MR. FETTER: Okay. Good morning, 9 everyone. 10 (Off microphone comments) 11 MR. FETTER: There we go. Now can you 12 hear me? 13 (No audible response) 14 MR. FETTER: Good morning. I am Allen 15 Fetter and as Joe mentioned I am lead Project Manager 16 for the Clinch River Nuclear Site Early Site Permit 17 Application Review, and Mallecia and I are here today 18 to provide you an overview of the early site 19 application review process from the NRC's perspecti ve. 20 And I just wanted

-- We heard some of the 21 questions that were asked and I wanted to do, you 22 know, provide the ACRS with some follow

-up. If both 23 dams would fail the site would, in fact, have 20 feet 24 of freeboard, so it is, in fact, a dry site, so I just 25 47 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 wanted to confirm with that.

1 And then Mallecia did some leg work to get 2 some population numbers for the one

-mile radius.

3 Mallecia, can you provide that?

4 MS. SUTTON: So based on the application 6 (Off microphone comments) 7 MS. SUTTON: Hi, Mallecia Sutton. So 8 based on the application information during the CETA 9 in 2013 within one

-mile is about 150 to 200 10 individuals live within one

-mile of the site, okay.

11 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Thank you for that 12 feedback. Thank you.

13 MR. FETTER: Okay. And then now Joe said 14 that I was going to describe the schedule, Mallecia 15 and are splitting this up, and so we'll get into the 16 four phases, she'll go over that, and we can talk 17 about details.

18 And one thing that is clear to us is that 19 we have to look in "Trout Unlimited" to when we 20 schedule our Subcommittee meeting. So in any case we 21 want to briefly discuss what an early site permit, you 22 know, some of this is somewhat repetitive from what 23 TVA provided, but we have our slides before us that 24 we'll go t hrough. 25 48 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 We are going to briefly describe what an 1 early site permit or ESP is and how it fits into NRC's 2 licensing process, describe the regulatory basis for 3 an ESP safety review process, and discuss the plant 4 parameter envelope, or PPE concept, discuss the ACRS 5 review, hearings, and ESP issuance, and present a 6 review schedule, and we will also answer your 7 questions during this time. Next.

8 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Might I interrupt you?

9 MR. FETTER: Absolutely.

10 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Just qu ickly, Allen, 11 for the record, your cover slide says "Presentation to 12 the ACRS Full Committee," we are a Subcommittee and 13 just for the record to make that point and it's the 14 Full Committee presentation and reports from the Full 15 Committee that will reflect t he ACRS's contents and 16 findings on this matter, okay.

17 MR. FETTER: Okay, thank you.

18 MR. COLACCINO: Thank you for that 19 clarification.

20 MR. FETTER: Okay, next slide, please. An 21 early site permit is an approval of safety and 22 environmental suitability of a p roposed site to 23 support future construction and operation of a nuclear 24 plant. 25 49 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 At the early site permit stage the 1 applicant doesn't have to commit to building a reactor 2 or specify a reactor design that will be built there.

3 The ESP r esolves both site safety and environmental 4 issues that are independent of a particular reactor 5 design. 6 As you know, ACRS only reviews the safety 7 aspects of the early site permit review and ESP does 8 not allow for construction and operation of a nuclear 9 plan t. 10 Before a nuclear plant can be constructed 11 and operated as a site with an ESP under Part 52 a 12 combined license application referencing a specific 13 reactor technology for the site must be reviewed and 14 approved by the NRC.

15 Next slide, please. Early site pe rmits 16 are of interest to applicants for the following 17 reasons, an applicant chooses an ESP to identify and 18 resolve safety and environmental siting issues early 19 and reduce regulatory and financial uncertainty when 20 planning for the future.

21 An ESP is valid for up to 20 years, which 22 gives applicants schedule flexibility for seeking 23 approval to build a plant or have a COLA application 24 submittal.

25 50 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 Because an ESP does not need to reference 1 a specific reactor design an applicant can be in a 2 b etter position to negotiate offers from competing 3 reactor technology vendors prior to submitting a 4 combined license application.

5 Next slide, please. Part 52 contains 6 three main licensing processes, early site permit, 7 design certification, and combined license. All three 8 of these processes start with the option to enter into 9 pre-application activities with the NRC.

10 Pre-application activities are very 11 important, especially in areas where new concepts are 12 being used or where the applicant is conducting the 13 work that will be used for developing the application.

14 Involving the NRC staff early on helps 15 facilitate the review when the application is 16 submitted. It also helps the staff identify any new 17 regulatory tools that it needs in order to be ready to 18 review the application.

19 The rectangles on the left shows the early 20 site permit and design certification application 21 review processes. For an ESP siting information is 22 required and for the design certification design 23 information is required.

24 The ellipse in the middle captures the 25 51 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 review of the combined license application, the 1 hearing takes place and the Commission decision on 2 issuance of the combined license.

3 The combined license application could 4 reference either an early site permit, a certified 5 design, both or neither, as long as it provides 6 sufficient information to complete the review.

7 Referencing an early site permit and/or a 8 certified design would be of great value because a 9 good portion of the review would have been completed 10 early. 11 The combined license would include 12 inspections, tests, analysis, and acceptance criteria, 13 also known as ITAAC, because these ITAAC that we have 14 determined are necessary to demonstrate that the as

-15 built plant meets regulations.

16 It would as include any necessary license 17 conditions, for example, license conditions that could 18 be used to capture startup testing requirements.

19 The vertical dash line shows major 20 construction activities that would occur after 21 issuance o f the combined license. The square to the 22 right of the dash line shows that following 23 construction and before fuel loading the licensee 24 would complete the inspection, the ITAAC required to 25 52 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 demonstrate that the plant as constructed meets the 1 acceptance cri teria. 2 The NRC staff would verify that this, in 3 fact, has occurred and the Commission would follow the 4 necessary finding that the acceptance criteria have 5 been met and would authorize operation. The licensee 6 would then commence fuel loading and startup 7 ac tivities. 8 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Alan, if TVA decided to 9 pursue a Part 50 approach how much of your work of the 10 effort would be in vain?

11 MR. FETTER: I don't believe any of it 12 would be in vein.

13 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Yes, that's my thought, 14 too. 15 MR. FETTER: Yes, ye

s. 16 MEMBER SKILLMAN: As a matter of fact, the 17 two could be dovetailed quite smoothly, depending on 18 how cautious you might be in your oversight in fitting 19 those pieces together.

20 MR. FETTER: Right. So the licensing 21 process for Part 50 does allow referencing an early 22 site permit, and so I believe that if you looked at 23 the scope of what was contained within Reg Guide 1.70, 24 which is the COL guidance I believe, that that would 25 53 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 be inclusive.

1 Now that's a fairly old document, but the 2 guida nce document going forward, Reg Guide 12.06, 3 included a lot of that information. So

-- 4 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Probably not much lost, 5 if any, is what I am concluding.

6 MR. FETTER: Yes, that would be my 7 assessment as well, just, you know, answering your 8 questio n here. 9 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Okay, thank you.

10 MR. FETTER: Sure.

11 MEMBER POWERS: It's my impression that 12 one of the advantages of the early site permit is when 13 it's used fairly quickly because it's a great way to 14 stand way up your compliance, regulatory staff , and 15 whatnot, in a staged fashion.

16 I think it worked out well for Vogtle, for 17 instance, because they could build up their staff for 18 a new plant in kind of a steady state way as they 19 began first with the early site permit and then 20 evolving to the actual re actor. 21 MR. COLACCINO: So if I could just briefly 22 comment on that. I think that the way that 23 regulations were initially envisioned back in the late 24 '80s of how that they would be implemented was just 25 54 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 exactly that.

1 MEMBER POWERS:

Yes. 2 MR. COLACCINO: But it does not preclude 3 them to being used differently.

4 MEMBER POWERS: Yes.

5 MR. COLACCINO: And so what TVA was doing 6 right now or what the other, the first three early 7 site permit applicants did, you know, the regulations 8 and the li censing process clearly allowed it.

9 MEMBER POWERS: Yes, it's fine, except I 10 think you lose something. There may be some advantage 11 when you put in the bank and store it awhile because, 12 you know, people, as we discover, age.

13 MEMBER RAY: Well, Dana, as som ebody who 14 has done an ESP before let me tell you the major issue 15 is investment at risk. It reduces the investment at 16 risk related to site issues.

17 MEMBER POWERS: I'm sure that is a major 18 consideration.

19 MEMBER RAY: It certainly was for us.

20 MR. FETTER: Al l right, any other 21 questions or comments at this time?

22 MEMBER RICCARDELLA: Some discussion with 23 the applicant about whether this early site permit 24 could be used in twinjunction with a Part 50 25 55 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 construction permit, is that

-- 1 MR. COLACCINO: Yes, that was just the

-- 2 I believe that was the question before, whether you 3 could use a Part 50 construction permit referencing an 4 early site permit, and the regulations do allow for 5 that. 6 MEMBER RICCARDELLA: Thank you.

7 MR. FETTER: And the oth er point was that 8 that would not be in vein, just that it would be 9 complimentary and potentially dovetail with Part 50.

10 MEMBER RICCARDELLA: The applicant said 11 theoretically, but that was incorrect.

MR. 12 FETTER: So they are allowed to keep their options 13 o pen. 14 MR. COLACCINO: Well, and I'll, you know It hasn't been done before, so let's see. So 16 theoretically I believe at this stage would probably 17 be, you know, the process envisions that, so the 18 actual implementation we would see how that would have 19 to all work out, because the staff hasn't done that 20 before. 21 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Allen, with regard to 22 emergency planning and what we just heard from your 23 applicant, how are we positioned, how is the staff 24 positioned to make an assessmen t of a dose

-based EPZ 25 56 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 and what is needed in policy space to do that and 1 where is the NRC on that matter?

2 MR. COLACCINO: So we are still reviewing 3 the application right now, but I'll go to your 4 question on policy. So we have a rulemaking that is 5 in progress right now with, the EPSMR rulemaking, 6 we'll refer to that in short, they are in the stage 7 where they are developing the proposed rule.

8 That proposed rule is based on a final 9 regulatory basis that has already been published. So 10 we are closely coordinating with and making sure that 11 we are we aware of the activities that are going on in 12 that rulemaking effort and we have that regulatory 13 basis which is publicly available which provides the 14 basis for proceeding with the rulemaking.

15 So we are very cognizant o f what they are 16 doing as the staff conducts its evaluation.

17 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: And what

-- Pardon me.

18 What do you expect the timeframe is to complete that 19 rulemaking process?

20 MR. COLACCINO: So I believe that Mallecia 21 sits on the, is one of the working group members, and 22 I believe that this public schedule for the proposed 23 rule is -- 24 MS. SUTTON: It's 2020.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 MR. COLACCINO: So the proposed rule 1 issuance schedule is I believe at the end of this 2 year. Do you remember what month, Mall ecia? 3 MS. SUTTON: So the draft is getting ready 4 to be issued early next year, but the final proposed 5 rule is scheduled to be issued some

-- 6 (Simultaneous speaking) 7 MR. COLACCINO: So let me give a little 8 more, so in our rulemaking process we have a

-- we're 9 through the regulatory basis process, now the staff 10 prepares a proposed rule and that proposed goes to the 11 Commission and then the Commission will issue that 12 proposed rule for public comment.

13 So I am trying to remember, you know, the 14 staff's work I believe is scheduled to be completed

-- 15 MS. SUTTON: Early March, like March, 16 April. The proposed rule, draft rule, goes up to the 17 Commission by early March, April

-- 18 MR. COLACCINO: Of this year?

19 MS. SUTTON: Of this year, yes.

20 MR. COLACCINO: Okay. Of 2 018? 21 MS. SUTTON: 2018 of March, yes.

22 MR. COLACCINO: Of 2018, okay.

23 MS. SUTTON: Yes, sir, yes.

24 MR. COLACCINO: Well, we'll if you are 25 58 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 interested we'll get you the precise schedule at

--- 1 ACR staff 2 MEMBER MARCH

-LEUBA: On a related question 3 on emergency planning, if you look three miles to the 4 west directly the plant is Oak Ridge National 5 Laboratory. It's a very concentrated

-- in a good 6 summer there you have 5,000 people there when you have 7 all the students and everybody else.

8 How ever, it's the optimal operation to 9 equate because they do drills regularly, there is 10 announcements, there is accounting for everybody, 11 everybody has a car they can run to

-- the subway and 12 get stuck there.

13 But does the rule allow for credit for 14 different types of people to evacuate? It will be 15 harder to evacuate a hundred people, hundred persons 16 that you mentioned before within a mile than all the 17 5000 three miles away.

18 MR. COLACCINO: So I'm not going to

-- So 19 I think what I believe you asked, the questi on is is 20 the proposed rule that the staff is working on credits 21 the specific populations that are mainly within the 22 area. 23 So I am not going to

-- I believe that 24 that was included in the final regulatory basis, a 25 59 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 characterization of populations like that. I 1 understand what, the point that you are driving at, so 2 -- 3 MEMBER MARCH

-LEUBA: Yes, because you are 4 going to go here with 5000 people right there, 5 downwind from the plant

-- 6 (Simultaneous speaking) 7 MEMBER POWERS: Well, it's

-- 8 ME MBER MARCH

-LEUBA: -- who are not going 9 to be there by the plume arrives.

10 MEMBER POWERS: It is true that any 11 facility that is actually built here will be required 12 to make an evacuation time estimate and the nature of 13 that population will affect and probab ly benefit an 14 early, an estimated evacuation time because they are 15 organized.

16 MEMBER MARCH

-LEUBA: Yes.

17 MEMBER POWERS: Now we have an example of 18 that in the case of Vogtle where they are located 19 right next to another Government reservation and they 20 in fact make use of that Government regulations 21 emergency capabilities as part of their emergency 22 plan. 23 So I think the answer is affirmative to 24 your question that there is credit available to you, 25 60 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 you just have to take it.

1 MEMBER MARCH-LEUBA: Okay.

2 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: May I go back to the 3 schedule aspect. So the actual rulemaking process 4 would come to conclusion in circa 2020, did I hear 5 that correctly?

6 MS. SUTTON: Yes.

7 MR. COLACCINO: I believe that's the 8 current schedule.

9 (Sim ultaneous speaking) 10 MR. COLACCINO:

-- public schedule, but 11 we'll get that. We'll show the ACRS staff where they 12 can pull that off and get that information to you.

13 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay. And I don't 14 know, Mr. Stetkar pointed out to me that I am not su re 15 to what extent we would be in the loop on that. Dana, 16 would we be part of that rulemaking review?

17 MEMBER STETKAR: Certainly, yes.

18 (Off microphone comments) 19 (Simultaneous speaking) 20 MEMBER STETKAR: I mean certainly so that 21 we should, somebody should be plugged into that 22 schedule for the draft rulemaking going up to the 23 Commission.

24 MR. COLACCINO: I agree, and ACRS will be 25 61 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 involved in that.

1 MEMBER STETKAR: Okay.

2 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Now if I am applicant 3 and I really want to go ahead in an expeditious manner 4 how would you do your safety review including that of 5 the EPZ requirements in the ESP if they are doing a 6 dose-based EPZ and that has not been approved yet?

7 MR. COLACCINO: So

-- Do you want

-- 8 (Simultaneous speaking) 9 MR. COLAC CINO: So I believe that in the 10 Commission's policy in their staff requirements 11 memorandum I think they in 2015

-- 12 MS. SUTTON: Yes, zero, zero, I think it's 13 0057, gave the staff direction to proceed where the 14 applicant can come in with an exemption reques t from 15 the current rule and the staff will evaluate that 16 exemption request

-- 17 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Can you give us that 18 for the record and provide Quynh with that 19 information?

20 MR. COLACCINO: We will.

21 MS. SUTTON: We will.

22 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Thank you.

23 MS. SUTTON: Okay, I will do that.

24 MR. NGUYEN: Also follow up on the 25 62 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 rulemaking activities related

-- 1 MS. SUTTON: Did I finish answering your 2 question, sir?

3 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Yes.

4 MS. SUTTON: Okay, good.

5 (Off microphone comments) 6 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Please proceed.

7 MR. FETTER: Okay, next slide, please.

8 The regulations governing an early site permit 9 application are listed in this slide. 10 CFR 51 10 relates to the environmental review. ESP applicants 11 have the option to use Review S tandard 002 or RS

-002 12 in preparing the application.

13 As for staff, NUREG

-0800 or the Standard 14 Review Plan, SRP, this is the primary guidance that is 15 used during the review.

16 MEMBER POWERS: I would just interject, I 17 found Review Standard RS

-002 to be incredibly helpful 18 when we did our first early site permits and I 19 recommended highly to the members to read, it was just 20 particularly helpful to me at least when I did, when 21 we reviewed the first of the early site permit, the 22 first four of the early site permits.

23 So if I am going to pick a document out of 24 this list to look at I would say RS

-002 is the one I 25 63 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 would pick.

1 MR. FETTER: Okay.

2 MR. COLACCINO: And I would agree with 3 that and I will make sure that the staff member who 4 wrote that le ts you know that, gets that compliment.

5 MEMBER POWERS: It was just very, very 6 helpful and helped to understand not only specifics 7 but what the general philosophy was.

8 MR. FETTER: Yes, and we have the Atoms 9 Accession Number for that right here and where w e can 10 provide it to our designated representative 11 afterwards.

12 MR. NGUYEN: I believe that the Committee 13 has these documents.

14 MS. SUTTON: Okay, great.

15 MR. FETTER: All right. And then 16 following up, even though the NUREG

-0800 is the 17 primary guidance that is used during the review staff 18 ensures that there is no gap in the guidance in RS

-002 19 and the SRP.

20 Next slide, please. The NRC reviews the 21 ESP applications for safety, security, health, and 22 environmental factors to ensure that ther e is 23 reasonable assurance that a nuclear facility at the 24 site could be constructed in operation and compliance 25 64 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 with the provisions of the Atomic Energy Act and the 1 Commission's regulations.

2 The NRC reviews an ESP in two major areas, 3 the safety review, whic h includes site safety, 4 emergency planning, and security, and the 5 environmental review.

6 The NRC issues a safety evaluation report, 7 or SER, in accordance with the regulations in 10 CFR 8 Part 52 documenting its evaluation of the application 9 from a safety pers pective. 10 The NRC uses this information to determine 11 whether or not the site is suitable for constructing 12 and operating a nuclear power plant. The staff 13 conducts the safety review to determine if the 14 application meets the requirements laid out in the NRC 15 regulations which are part of the Code of Federal 16 Regulations, and in the Atomic Energy Act.

17 Emergency Preparedness Review is conducted 18 in accordance with 10 CFR 52.17 to evaluate any 19 physical characteristics of the proposed site that 20 could pose a significant impediment to development of 21 emergency plans and provide a description of the 22 contacts and arrangements made with federal, state, 23 and local agencies with emergency planning 24 responsibilities.

25 65 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 The applicant may propose and the NRC 1 would review any emergency plans provided in the ESP 2 application. These emergency plans must be either 3 partial emergency plans which address some but not all 4 major features of the emergency plans, such as size 5 and configuration of emergency planning zones proposed 6 for the site or complete an integrated emergency, 7 onsite and offsite emergency plans for the site.

8 For licenses issued under 10 CFR Part 52, 9 Part 52 points to emergency planning requirements 10 found in 10 CFR 50.47 and Appendix 10 CFR Part 50. So 11 the state of emergency plan requirements for Part 50 12 licensees also apply to Part 52 licensees.

13 By reviewing the ESP security plan the NRC 14 ensures that the ESP applicant provided sufficient 15 technical analysis to demonstrate that the site 16 characteristics an d potential hazards do not present 17 impediments that would preclude the development of 18 adequate security plans and measures.

19 Additionally, the staff conducts 20 environmental reviews under the National Environmental 21 Policy Act, or NEPA, to evaluate the impacts of 22 construction and operation at the site.

23 The staff's findings in these reviews are 24 documented in the SER and the staff's environmental 25 66 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 findings are documented in the Environmental Impact 1 Statement, or EIS.

2 Next slide, please.

This flow chart 3 outlines the steps in the ESP review. The rectangular 4 shaped boxes indicate an NRC action, the starbursts 5 are areas where members of the public can get 6 involved. 7 As shown there are several opportunities 8 for the public to share comments and ask questions 9 about the NRC review of the application. During the 10 safety review members of the public can attend 11 meetings where the advisory committee on reactor 12 safeguards examines the staff's assessment.

13 The Atomic Safety and Licensing Board, 14 ASLB, or also Licensing Board, examines the request to 15 participate in a contested hearing. There is also a 16 mandatory hearing that is held after the staff 17 publishes reports on its final safety and 18 environmental reviews.

19 Ovals indicate throughout the process when 20 our findings are documented in the SER and the EIS 21 statements.

22 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Allen, while you have 23 that up -- 24 MR. FETTER: Yes?

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Which of those boxes 1 now can you check? Do you have a draft EIS at this 2 point? 3 MR. FETTER: No. The draft EIS is 4 scheduled for publication in June of this year, if

-- 5 MS. SUTTON: March 2018.

6 MR. FETTER: 2018, sorry.

7 MR. COLACCINO: We keep thinking it's next 8 year. 9 MR. FETTER: Yes, we're getting ahead of 10 ourselves here, so

-- but we do have our environmental 11 review staff in the audience who can correct any 12 misstatements.

13 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: So you have your 14 environmental review and report at this point?

15 MR. FETTER: Yes, we do. So the draft EIS 16 is in preparation and that will be p ublished in June 17 of 2018. 18 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay, thank you.

19 MR. FETTER: And the hexagon shaped boxes 20 indicate the submittal of the application and the 21 Commission's decision. And I will now turn over the 22 remainder of the presentation to Mallecia Sutton , then 23 I will be available to answer questions.

24 MS. SUTTON: Hi, again, I am Mallecia.

25 68 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 The safety review is a comprehensive and in

-depth 1 review of the applicant's analysis and evaluation as 2 presented in its early site permit application and it 3 begins after the application is docketed.

4 During a safety review the staff evaluates 5 several technical areas. A partial list of the areas 6 covered during the safety review is what you see on 7 this slide.

8 Included in this list is applicant's 9 emergency preparedness program while Federal Emergency 10 Management Agency, also know as FEMA, evaluates the 11 adequacy of the offsite emergency preparedness program 12 which is implemented by the state and local 13 governments.

14 The NRC evaluates the adequacy of the 15 applicant's onsite emergency preparedness and the NRC 16 reviews FEMA's findings in making the overall 17 determination of the accuracy of the emergency 18 preparedness plans.

19 All of our reviews follow a systematic 20 approach. For the safety review the staff documents 21 its conclusion about whether or not there is 22 reasonable assurance that a site is acceptable for a 23 nuclear power plant based on the regulations in 10 CFR 24 Part 52. 25 69 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 And quality assurance programs, as 1 mentioned earlier in conducting a safety review the 2 staff uses guidance provided in NUREG

-0800, the 3 Standard Review Plan, or SRP.

4 It is possible to approve an ESP site 5 without selected reactor technology. ESP plant 6 parameters, also known as PPE, values can be bound in 7 a variety of reactor technologies rather than one 8 specific technology.

9 The PPE values are bounding criteria used 10 by the staff to determine the suitability of an ESP 11 site for construction and operation of a nuclear 12 plant. 13 The SER evaluates the site 14 characteristics. At the COL stage when a specific 15 technology is identified the ESP PPE values are 16 compared to those of the selected technology.

17 If design parameters of the selected 18 technology exceed bounding ESP PPE values additional 19 reviews are conducted to ensure that the site rem ains 20 suitable from a safety and environmental standpoint 21 for construction and operation of the selected nuclear 22 plant technology.

23 In addition, the site parameters for the 24 referenced certified design must be bounded by the 25 70 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 site chara cteristics in the ESP.

1 Slide 11. In the development of the PPE 2 an applicant

-- 3 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: May I interrupt you

-- 4 (Simultaneous speaking) 5 MS. SUTTON: You sure can.

6 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Sorry for the 7 interruption. Going back to the previous viewgr aph, 8 the last bullet, you state that additional reviews are 9 conducted if the selected technology exceeds the 10 bounding plant parameter estimates, or envelope.

11 Does the public also then have an 12 opportunity to intervene, and thinking specifically of 13 what we h ave seen throughout the industry the desire 14 to uprate the plants that have, that according to the 15 applicant they have bounded their estimates 16 conservatively, we don't know that, but we will assume 17 that, but if indeed they hadn't and they come back to 18 you with say another hundred megawatts thermal or X 19 megawatts electric, what additional reviews would you 20 do and are they then subject to public intervention?

21 MS. SUTTON: So, yes. The answer to your 22 question is yes. So if there is a c hange that is 23 different from the parameter that has been issued for 24 the ESP and the CR application comes in then the 25 71 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 interveners do have the opportunity to

-- probably 1 have opportunity to request to be, petition and ask 2 for that change in the application, because if it's 3 not bounded anymore, even at the staff end, you have 4 to evaluate that new information to confirm if it fits 5 within that box of the PPE.

6 MR. COLACCINO: So and I would

-- That's a 7 great answer, thanks. And just to understand, in a 8 COL we ar e in a new, we're in a different action, 9 that's a different federal action.

10 It is an additional review of the 11 application. Your use of the word intervener, there 12 is another public process and there is a

-- 13 (Simultaneous speaking) 14 MR. COLACCINO:

-- associ ated with that.

15 So it's just clear, you know, we're out of ESP, the 16 permit is issued, the combined license application 17 comes in. That application is evaluated on its 18 merits. 19 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Thank you.

20 MR. FETTER: So just to follow up, so even 21 if the y are within the PPE they can still proffer 22 contentions.

23 MR. COLACCINO: Good clarification. Thank 24 you. 25 72 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 MS. SUTTON: You're welcome. I'm on Slide 1 11. In the development of the PPE an applicant 2 typically draws data from a number o f plant 3 technologies under consideration to construct a 4 bounded envelope.

5 It is important to note that when issuing 6 the permit NRC approves the PPE rather than a specific 7 technologies that the PPE was drawn from. As such, 8 any plant technology that can be demonstrated to be 9 bounded by the PPE is suitable for use in a combined 10 license application.

11 In TVA's case they use the following 12 reactor design to develop the PPE, as I mentioned they 13 used the BWXT, the used NuScale, the Holtec, and the 14 Westinghouse SMR.

15 TVA's PPE is based on construction and 16 operation of two or more SMRSs at the Clinch River 17 Site with a nuclear generating capacity of 2400 18 megawatts thermal or 800 megawatts electric.

19 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: So since this is a 20 bounding estimate how do you deal with multi

-unit 21 plants and the source term that you used for 22 establishing that dose base to EPZ?

23 MS. SUTTON: So the staff is still 24 currently evaluating that particular question that you 25 73 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 just asked, so we don't have findings on that 1 particular answer, but when we do get to that ending 2 point of the review we'll be happy to come back and 3 share that info rmation with you.

4 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: It seems to me that 5 would be critical going forward if you allow for a 6 common cause failure, i.e. seismic events, then each 7 of the units if it exceeded its seismic design basis 8 would be expected have a design basis acc ident and 9 release. 10 MS. SUTTON: So there's two or more, but 11 there is a limit because they also said no more than 12 2400 megawatts thermal, so whatever technology that is 13 chosen it can't exceed the 2400 megawatts or the 800 14 megawatts electric so whatever box that the staff 15 determines that the PPE should be would not exceed 16 those limits.

17 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: So you will use 18 notionally the 2200 megawatts thermal and an LWR 19 technology to determine your source term?

20 MS. SUTTON: Within

-- Remember, this is The E SP is technology neutral, so we

-- 22 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Right.

23 MS. SUTTON: Yes, so we're not, like I 24 said based on the parameters that is provided in the 25 74 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 application is what the staff is currently using to 1 evaluate what the box migh t be and we have not 2 concluded the box, so if that

-- 3 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Well

-- 4 MS. SUTTON: Yes.

5 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER:

-- you -- 6 MEMBER CORRADINI: Can I ask

-- Walt, can 7 I ask your question a little

-- 8 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Yes, please, Mike.

9 MEMBER CORRAD INI: So are you looking at 10 design basis events based on the thermal power you 11 just noted or are you looking at it

-- I'm still not 12 clear of your answer to Walt.

13 I assume that with any design basis 14 accident there would be a thermal power associated 15 with it and then an associated source term. Is that 16 how you are doing the EPZ comparison analysis?

17 MR. COLACCINO: So this is Joe Colaccino, 18 I understand the question. I don't think we have the 19 staff here prepared to answer that question right now, 20 but what the early site permit process is a technology 21 neutral process.

22 Now the staff is asking questions about, 23 has asked RAIs associated with, you know, one of 24 those, you know, getting a little bit deeper, because 25 75 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 of what is being requested i n the application.

1 So understand the interest in that type 2 of, in that discussion, and that is something that 3 we'll be prepared to come and talk about in much more 4 detail when we are in the, we're back with ACRS once 5 the staff has completed its work on the evaluation of 6 their application.

7 MEMBER CORRADINI: Okay, but

-- All right, 8 but let me use an example, since Vogtle was an ESP 9 site was it not a single unit that was used even 10 though there are two units being built?

11 I think we'll use that as an example to 12 answer Walt's question.

13 MR. COLACCINO: Yes, that is correct, 14 Vogtle was used, single

-- Even though it was an 15 application for two units the analyses that were done 16 were for a single unit.

17 MEMBER CORRADINI: Thank you.

18 MR. COLACCINO: Thank you.

19 MR. FETTE R: So we will take this question 20 and make sure we're ready to answer it when the time 21 comes. 22 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Not to repeat myself, 23 but it seems to me if you really want to play the 24 technology neutral game then you are bound by the 25 76 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 applicant, you are bound to analyze the applicant's 1 upper threshold for a thermal power and, therefore, 2 come up wi th a source term and then that probably 3 drives you to say, well, it's an LWR technology and 4 assume some analytical approach on that order I think 5 would be needed to say it's technology neutral, 6 correct? 7 MS. SUTTON: So we actually have an audit 8 -- I mean t he questions you are asking are questions 9 that the staff are evaluating

-- 10 MALE PARTICIPANT: Right.

11 MS. SUTTON:

-- and we actually have an 12 audit today after this ACRS to go over and analyze 13 those specific, some of those questions that you 14 asked. 15 So that's why you see I am kind of 16 hesitant to give you any further information because 17 we're still on a review. As soon as we get clarity on 18 where the staff is headed with the review, because the 19 application came in in January, we're just in Phase B.

20 We would be more than happy to present the 21 staff's findings at that time and provide you 22 hopefully with more clarity on where the staff stands 23 and our position.

24 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: It seems to me you have 25 77 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 a policy issue in effect in front of you, whether it's 1 four of one or eight of another what you are going to 2 assume about the source term for that envelope, 3 because if you're going to say it's technology neutral 4 then you are almost driven to use the thermal power 5 rating and some assumption on technology for deriving 6 a source term because you don't how many units they 7 are going to have so you can't assume a priori, yes, 8 we know they are modular, or it could, but, again, 9 then that's not technology neutral.

10 MEMBER POWERS: A lot of your concerns ar e 11 probably -- You have to recognize that there is a 12 criterion and that a lot of these things are threshold 13 sorts of things.

14 So you have a 25 rem at the site boundary 15 criterion, it's not continuous. Once you cross that 16 25 rem at the site boundary you are n o longer in 17 compliance, so it's not a continuous function.

18 And why these small plants can violate 19 that even though they have very much lower power than 20 2000 megawatts, or 2400, or something like that, it 21 only takes about 25,000 curies of iodine to violate 22 that site boundary for an existing plant.

23 So you can escape a lot of the details of 24 what the plant is just because it produces iodine.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 MEMBER RAY: Walt, can I also make a 1 comment, actually make two comments? One, we have 2 added units at sites often in the past and what 3 assumption one makes about the hypothesis that you 4 gave relative to an earthquake, for example, you 5 exceed the design basis earthquakes to all the units 6 at the site are they required to be assumed to fail.

7 That's one thing we need to be conscience 8 of where we are in the policy space and I think that 9 is an issue that has been long under discussion and we 10 should keep that in mind but not assume the solution 11 is obvious.

12 MR. COLACCINO: So the staff would like to 13 proceed. We understand what the question is and

-- 14 (Off microphone comment) 15 MR. COLACCINO: Oh. And I was going to 16 say unless there is more questions.

17 MS. SUTTON: We have two things.

18 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Harold, do you have 19 more to add?

20 MEMBER RAY: No. No, I just wanted to say 21 we need to be mindful of the fact that we have added 22 units as sites, Vogtle is an example, but only just an 23 example out of many, and what one assumes about all 24 the units that may affected by a common occurrence is 25 79 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 s omething that is a significant policy issue that we 1 need to recognize and deliberate in that way, not 2 assume, for example, that the ESP would envelope 3 everything that would ever be done at the site.

4 MR. STOUT: If I might, I would encourage 5 you to look at SSAR Section 13.3. It contains the 6 methodology that addresses design basis and beyond 7 design basis.

8 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay, please proceed.

9 MR. COLACCINO: Okay.

10 MS. SUTTON: Okay, thank you. ACRS 11 reviews each ESP application and the Safety Evaluation 12 Report. ACRS reports to the Commission on the safety 13 portions of the ESP application. I am on Slide 13.

14 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Just going forward we 15 should use what is actually required and what is 16 required in the language is "which concerns safety," 17 okay. 18 MS. SUTTON: Okay.

19 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Just for clarity.

20 MS. SUTTON: Okay. Okay, thank you.

21 There are two types of hearings. There is the 22 uncontested hearing, also known as the mandatory 23 hearing, which is going to be done by Ato mic Safety 24 Licensing Board, and there is the contested, and that 25 80 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 is when contentions are admitted.

1 As you were told two contentions was 2 admitted on this proceeding on October 10, 2017, 3 related to environmental issues.

4 I am on Slide 14. Before the Commissi on 5 can issue an ESP with terms and conditions as it deems 6 appropriate for 10 CFR 52.24 the following needs to 7 occur, hearings on initial decisions must be made by a 8 licensing board, ACRS reports provide to the 9 Commission, and the Commission needs to conclu de that 10 Atomic Energy Act and regulations have been met. The 11 ESP terms are valid for ten to 20 years.

12 I am on slide 15. The NRC has issued the 13 following five ESPs, Clinton, Grand Gulf, North Anna, 14 Vogtle, and PSEG. Both Anna and Vogtle reference an 15 ESP in their combined license.

16 The NRC is currently reviewing the Clinch 17 River Nuclear Site ESP application. This slide shows 18 the Clinch River Nuclear Site ESP application accepted 19 dates and a four

-phase safety review schedule.

20 We are currently in Phase B of the review, 21 Development of Advanced SE Sections with No Open 22 Items, and some sections are expected to be ready for 23 ACRS Subcommittee review by late May 2018.

24 Phase C, ACRS Review and Meetings on 25 81 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 Advanced SEs is scheduled to run from June 2018 1 through March 26, 2019.

2 And this concludes the staff presentation.

3 Do we have any additional questions?

4 MR. COLACCINO: I would just like to add 5 something a little bit, Mallecia, if we could go back 6 to the previous slide.

7 MS. SUTTON: Okay.

8 MR. COLACCINO: Just to make sure that 9 there was no confusion.

10 MS. SUTTON: Okay.

11 MR. COLACCINO: So this is a four phase 12 schedule and I noted on TVA's slide that it looked 13 like that there was a milestone in there for a safety 14 evaluation report with open items and I think I recall 15 some discussion about when that would be delivered to 16 ACRS. 17 So we have no intent to deliver a safety 18 evaluation report with open items to the ACRS. What 19 you will be getting is a no open item safety 20 evaluation report.

21 So it will be a ll of -- You will not 22 receive a safety evaluation report until all those 23 items are resolved in the staff's mind and then 24 brought to the ACRS.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 And so what we are looking for is we have 1 already interfaced with ACRS staff about the tim ing of 2 when those would be coming up and the timing of those 3 reviews. 4 We are hoping that some of those will be 5 done a little bit earlier than when the public 6 milestone gives that span starting in June of 2018, 7 but we'll interfacing with you all for schedul ing for 8 that for those reviews. Thank you.

9 MEMBER POWERS: I will say that I thought 10 we were relatively successful on the previous early 11 site permits, not when it was resolved but when it was 12 clear, the path to the resolution of any open item.

13 It didn't

-- I mean in old cases that I 14 can remember we were able to proceed pretty easily 15 because all parts agreed, yes, this is the thing that 16 needs to be resolved and here is how we're going to do 17 it, and we just needed to fill in some things pretty 18 well. 19 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay. Thank you very 20 much. While you are there let us go around amongst 21 the members for any questions or comments. I'll start 22 with you Ron.

23 MEMBER BALLINGER: No comments.

24 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Pete?

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 MEMBER RICCARDELLA:

No comments, thank 1 you. 2 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay.

3 MEMBER SKILLMAN: Thank you, no further 4 comment. 5 MEMBER POWERS: Yes, again, I'd just say 6 that review of RSS

-002 is good preparation for going 7 into this thing. It

-- What I can say unquestionably 8 is it h elped me a lot when we did the first one.

9 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Matt?

10 MEMBER SUNSERI: I have nothing additional 11 to add. Thank you.

12 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: So our Chairman just 13 returned, so I'll just repeat what I thought I heard 14 on schedule matters, and that i s we would be looking 15 in the May 2018 timeframe to start looking at sections 16 of the SER with no open items.

17 MR. COLACCINO: Correct.

18 MS. SUTTON: Correct.

19 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: That's the staff's 20 plan at this point.

21 MEMBER BLEY: We're not going to see the 22 o ne with open items?

That's -- 23 (Simultaneous speaking) 24 MS. SUTTON: That was not part of our 25 84 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 schedule, so

-- 1 MR. FETTER: Yes, this is a four phase 2 schedule. 3 MS. SUTTON: Yes.

4 MEMBER BLEY: There we go. We'll see how 5 it works. 6 CHAIR MAN KIRCHNER: Okay. John?

7 MEMBER STETKAR: No further comments.

8 MEMBER MARCH

-LEUBA: Nothing to add.

9 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Charlie?

10 MEMBER BROWN: Nothing more. Thank you.

11 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: All right.

12 (Off microphone comments) 13 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Mike a nd Harold, have 14 you any comments or questions?

15 MEMBER RAY: Well, I'll go first. I just 16 want to say that the ESP process I have been a big, 17 big fan of it for many years and as I mentioned in my 18 comment following Dana it has the tremendous benefit 19 of resolving some, not all, but some major issues 20 before major investment takes place by the ultimate 21 COLA or operating license holder.

22 So it's a very, very I think important 23 process and I am glad we have a chance for the current 24 generation on the Committee to go through it and get 25 85 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 familiar with it because it was the only way I could 1 see in my prior life if we could ever move forward and 2 get a project built again.

3 So I just think we should look at it as 4 having that kind of a potential role in the future.

5 The use with a certified design that isn't yet 6 selected and so on is inevitably I think what we have 7 to recognize, in other words the envelope principle, 8 because it's only then after the ESP is obtained that 9 the potential licensee can say, all right, I am ready 10 to put some money behind this and I'll pick up the 11 reactor design and invest and add as I would need to 12 do in order to move forward.

13 So it's an important process and I just 14 want to make that point.

15 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Thank you, Harold. 16 Mike? 17 MEMBER CORRADINI: I don't have any other 18 comments. I just wanted to thank TVA and the staff.

19 We're going to see them again, so I think a lot of the 20 detailed comments we'll have to see when we see the 21 details of the results.

22 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Good. Thank you, 23 Mike. Let me turn to the audience and members of the 24 public who are present. If anyone would like to make 25 86 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 a statement or a comment please come and identify 1 yourself at the microphone here at the corner of the 2 table. 3 Seeing no one coming forward, can we check 4 the -- 5 MALE PARTICIPANT: I'll just check with 6 the -- 7 MR. BROWN: The bridge is open.

8 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay, the bridge is 9 open. Okay, thank you. Is there any member of the 10 public who would like to make a comment?

11 MR. SAFER: Yes. Hello, can you hear me?

12 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Yes. Please identify 13 yourself. 14 MR. SAFER: Okay, thank you. My name is 15 Don Safer. I am on the Board of the Tennessee 16 Environmental Council in Nashville and we a re a 48-17 year-old environmental advocacy organization in 18 Tennessee, operate statewide, so for your information.

19 And then on the contention, the second 20 contention that was talked about during the TVA 21 portion of the meeting, it was unfairly and 22 inadequately c haracterized.

23 Let me give you some more information on 24 that please. From the document that we filed, the 25 87 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 Petition to Intervene, Contention 3 is what it was, 1 asserts that the environmental report is biased and 2 unfair because it advo cates the technical advantages 3 of SMRs as an energy alternative even though TVA 4 formally elected not to address energy alternatives or 5 the need for power in the environmental report for the 6 ESP. 7 And a little bit more, and I am not going 8 to go too deeply, but allow me just to go into the 9 statement of the contention, the ESP application 10 violates the National Environmental Policy Act and the 11 NRC implementing regulations because it contains 12 impermissible language comparing the proposed SMR to 13 other energy alternatives and discussing the economic 14 and technical advantages of the facility.

15 The language is impermissible because TVA 16 has explicitly invoked 10 CFR 51.50(b)(2) which 17 excuses it from discussing the economic, technical, 18 and other benefits of the proposed f acility, such as 19 need for power.

20 By formally choosing to exclude 21 consideration of alternatives from its environmental 22 report TVA has effectively precluded petitioners from 23 submitting contentions on those subjects.

24 So that's just to give you the actual 25 88 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 contention itself and give you a little bit more 1 information.

2 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Thank you. Is there 3 anyone else, a member of the public who wishes to make 4 a statement?

5 (No audible response) 6 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Hearing none we can 7 close the bridge line. Thank you. Any final comments 8 or questions?

9 MR. COLACCINO: Chairman

-- 10 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Yes?

11 MR. COLACCINO:

-- just summarizing our 12 action items for the staff, I picked up two, that we 13 will follow up with the ACRS staff on more explicit 14 information on the EPSMR rulemaking schedules, in 15 particular, and we also just noted the discussion 16 about single unit versus multi units and we'll make 17 sure that the staff is aware of that coming into 18 either the more, as we present our safety eval uation 19 report. 20 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Thank you.

21 MEMBER BROWN: Walt, could I

-- 22 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Yes, Charles?

23 MEMBER BROWN: I've forgotten how this 24 process interacts with the ALSB. There are obviously 25 89 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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-3701 (202) 234-4433 contentions, and he just cl arified what they thought 1 on theirs, how does your end product SER interface 2 with the actions of the ALSB?

3 MR. COLACCINO: So

-- 4 MEMBER BROWN: Do you have to come 5 afterwards or do you wait for them or

-- 6 MR. COLACCINO: I appreciate the question.

7 We are working on two separate processes right now, 8 so the staff's review proceeds as it does. The 9 process that is going through contention is being run 10 and that is completely separate and we'll

-- 11 (Simultaneous speaking) 12 MEMBER BROWN: Okay, two separate

-- two 13 separate, solid things.

14 MR. COLACCINO: Yes.

15 MEMBER BROWN: Okay. Thank you.

16 CHAIRMAN KIRCHNER: Okay. Well, thank you 17 very much. Thank you to the TVA presenters and staff 18 and with that we are adjourned.

19 (Whereupon, the above

-entitled matter went 20 off t he record at 10:39 a.m.)

21 22 23 24 25 TVA Clinch River SMR Project Early Site Permit Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards Subcommittee Meeting November 15, 2017 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 l 2 Early Site Permit Overview Dan Stout Senior Manager, Small Modular Reactors Early Site Permit Application (ESPA) l 3 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 An Early Site Permit assesses site suitability for potential construction and operation of a nuclear power plant. The TVA ESPA contains more than 8,000 pages and is supported by over 80,000 pages in referenced documents. Application includes: Site Safety Analysis Report to address impacts of the environment on the plant Environmental Report Emergency Plans (Part 5A and Part 5B) Exemptions (Part 6) ESPA based on a plant parameter envelope (PPE) Based on input from the four U.S. light-water SMR designs developed by BWX Technologies, Holtec, NuScale Power, Westinghouse Assumes two or more SMR units of a single design Up to 800MWt for a single unit with a combined nuclear generating capacity not exceeding 2420 MWt (800 MWe)

Application Organization l 4 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 Part 1 Administrative Information Part 2 Site Safety Analysis Report Chapter 1 Introduction and General Description Chapter 2 Site Characteristics Chapter 3 Aircraft Hazards Chapter 11 Radioactive Waste Management Chapter 13 Emergency Planning Chapter 15 Transient and Accident Analysis Chapter 17 Quality Assurance Part 3 Environmental Report Part 4 Limited Work Authorization Not Used Part 5 Emergency Plan Part 6 Exemptions and Departures Part 7 Withheld Information Part 8 Enclosures ESPA Contractor Support by Part l 5 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 Early Site Permit Application Chronological Development l 6 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 TVA begins exploring potential SMR Project Site Characterization ESPA Submitted to NRC NRC accepts ESPA for review NRC performs audits & issues RAIs Contentions filed, ASLB formed Two Contentions Admitted by ASLB 2009 2010 - 2015 May 2016 December 2016 March October 2017 June 2017 October 2017 ESPA Project Update Licensing Process l 7 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 Application Submittal l 8 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 NRC Site Visits Pre-Environmental Report Visit PPE Development Pre-application Site Visit Alternative Sites Visit ESPA Readiness Review Meteorology and Source Term Audit Hydrology and Groundwater Audit Seismic/Geotechnical Audit Environmental Audit March 2013 September 2014 October 2014 June 2015 August 2015 April 2017 April 2017 May 2017 May 2017 Site Location l 9 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 The CRN property encompasses 1200 acres of land adjacent to the Clinch River arm of the Watts Bar Reservoir, within the City of Oak Ridge, Roane County, Tennessee. Borders DOE Oak Ridge Reservation 6.8 miles east of Kingston, TN 9.2 miles east-southeast of Harriman, TN 8.8 miles southeast of Lenoir City, TN 25.6 miles west-northwest of Knoxville, TN The land is owned by the United States of America and managed by TVA as the agent of the federal government.

TVA ESP Site and Regional Vicinity l 10 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 TVA ESP Site and Local Vicinity l 11 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 TVA ESP Site Points of Interest l 12 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 ESP Application Development l 13 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 Regulatory guidance to prepare the application 10 CFR Part 52, Subpart A RG 1.206 - Combined License Applications for Nuclear Power Plants (LWR Edition) NUREG 0800 - Standard Review Plan for the Review of Safety Analysis Reports for Nuclear Power Plants: LWR Edition RS-002 Processing Applications for Early Site Permits Appropriate Guidance Documents What is a Plant Parameter Envelope (PPE)? l 14 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 Composite of reactor and engineered parameters that bound the safety and environmental impact of plant construction and operation Considers 4 SMR Vendors BWXT mPower NuScale Holtec SMR-160 Westinghouse Developed based on NEI 10-01 Guidance Margin added to specific parameters as appropriate -

Plant Parameter Development Process l 15 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 PPE Use Considerations l 16 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 Includes Appropriate Conservatism Prevents rework when vendor analysis is updated Safety conclusion becomes more apparent Document and, when possible, quantify conservatisms Allows use of multiple reactor designs, providing flexibility for future business decisions. An integral element of 10 CFR Part 52 Works well with a future COLA Conclusions l 17 ACRS Subcommittee Meeting l November 15, 2017 TVA is exploring more generation options SMRs have desirable attributes: Safety Cost Operational and Deployment Flexibility An ESP would establish suitability of the Clinch River Site for potential future construction and operation of an SMR facility Valid for up to 20 years Reduces future COLA licensing risk by achieving finality on most siting and environmental matters Addresses some regulatory policy issues such as appropriately-sized Emergency Planning Zones (EPZs)

Joseph Colaccino, Branch Chief, NRO/DNRL/LB3Allen Fetter, Project Manager, NRO/DNRL/LB3Mallecia Sutton, Project Manager, NRO/DNRL/LB3Office of New ReactorsPresentation to the ACRS Full Committee Early Site Permit Process Overview November 15, 2017 Purposes of Today's MeetingDescribe what an Early Site Permit (ESP) is and how it fits into our licensing processDescribe regulatory basis and ESP safety review processDiscuss the Plant Parameter Envelope (PPE) conceptDiscuss ACRS Review, Hearings and ESP issuancePresent Clinch River Nuclear Site ESPA review scheduleAnswer questions 2

Early Site Permit (ESP)An ESP is an approval of the safety and environmental suitability of a proposed site to support future construction and operation of a nuclear plantAn ESP does notallow for construction and operation of a nuclear plant Before a nuclear plant can be constructed and operated at a site with an ESP, a combined license application referencing a specific reactor technology for the site must be reviewed and approved by NRC 3

Applicant Interest in Early Site PermitsAn applicant chooses an ESP to identify and resolve safety and environmental siting issues early, and to reduce regulatory and financial uncertainties when planning for the futureAn ESP is valid for up to 20 years, which gives applicants schedule flexibility for seeking approval to build a plant (COLA submittal)Because an ESP does not need to reference a specific reactor design, an applicant can be in a better position to negotiate offers from competing reactor technology vendors prior to submitting a COLA 4

5Part 52 -Fitting the Pieces Together

• Site preparation and preconstruction (non

-safety-related construction) can take place before licensing decisions finalized

• Licensing decisions finalized before safety

-related (nuclear) construction can begin

• Inspections with ITAAC to verify constructionPre-ConstructionConstruction & VerificationEarly Site PermitStandard DesignCertificationCombined License Review, Hearing,and DecisionVerification of ITAACCompletionReactorOperationDecisionOptionalPre-ApplicationReview 5 Regulations and GuidanceRegulations:10 CFR 52, Subpart A10 CFR 50 (Emergency Planning & other areas)10 CFR 51 (Environmental Report)10 CFR 100 (Reactor Site Criteria)Guidance:Review Standard (RS) 002NUREG-0800 (Standard Review Plan) 6 Required Reviews for anESP Application 7Atomic Energy Act, as amended, authorizes the NRC to protect public health and safety, and to provide for the common defense and securityThe safety review team creates a Safety Evaluation Report (SER) addressing

• Site Safety

• Emergency Planning

• SecurityThe environmental review team prepares an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS)

Early Site Permit Review ProcessSafetyReviewEnvironmentalReviewSite Safety & EP ReviewSafetyEvaluationReportACRSReviewACRSReportScopingActivitiesDraftEISCommentsOn DraftFinalEISHearingsPublicParticipationPublicMeetingCommissionDecision onApplication 8Early Site Permit Application Accepted ESP Safety ReviewSite characteristics and areas reviewed include:

• Seismology

• Geology*Hydrology*Meteorology

• Geography*Demography (population distribution)

• Site Hazards Evaluation

• Radiological Effluent Releases

• Radiological Dose Consequences

• Emergency Preparedness (with FEMA)

• Security Plan Feasibility 9

ESP Plant Parameter Envelope (PPE) 10Approving an ESP Site without a Selected Reactor Technology

• ESP Plant Parameter Envelope (PPE) values can bound a variety of reactor technologies rather than one specific technology (an amalgam of values representing a surrogate nuclear plant)

• The PPE values are bounding criteria used by staff to determine the suitability of an ESP site for construction and operation of a nuclear plant*At the COL stage, when a specific technology is identified, the ESP PPE values are compared to those of the selected technology. If design parameters of the selected technology exceed bounding ESP PPE values, additional reviews are conducted to ensure that the site remains suitable from a safety and environmental standpoint for construction and operation of the selected nuclear plant technology 11ESP Plant Parameter Envelope (PPE)Plant Parameter Envelope (PPE)

-continuedTVA used the following reactor designs to develop the Plant Parameter Envelope (PPE):

• BWXT mPower SMR, 530 MWt (180 MWe)

• NuScale SMR, 160 MWt (50 MWe)

• Holtec SMR

-160, 525 MWt, (160 MWe)

• Westinghouse SMR, 800 MWt (225 MWe)TVA's PPE is based on construction and operation of two or more SMRs at the CRN Site with a nuclear generating capacity of 2420 MWt (800 MWe)

ACRS Review 12ACRS Review

• ACRS reviews each ESP application and staff's Safety Evaluation Report (SER)

• ACRS reports to Commission on safety portions of ESP application Hearings 13Hearings*Procedural Requirements in 10 CFR Part 2

• Hearing takes one of two forms:

• Uncontested (but still mandatory) by ASLB

• Contested when contentions are admitted (on October 10, 2017, the ASLB admitted two contentions)

ESP Issuance 14Commission issues ESP with terms and conditions, as it deems appropriateESP TermsValid for up to 20 yearsRenewal application

-between 1 and 3 years before expiration of permit

• Must contain information necessary to bring previous application up

-to-date*Good for up to an additional 20 years ESPs Issued and Under ReviewThe NRC has issued five ESPs:Clinton (IL)

-March, 2007Grand Gulf (MS)

-April, 2007North Anna (VA)

-November, 2007Vogtle (GA)

-August, 2009PSEG (NJ)

-May, 2016The NRC is currently reviewing the Clinch River Nuclear Site ESP application 15 Clinch River Nuclear Site ESP Application Review Schedule

• Application accepted for docketing and detailed technical review on December 30, 2016. FRN on acceptance decision published January 12, 2017

• Phase A (Preliminary Safety Evaluation Report (SER) sections prepared and initial RAIs issued): Completed August 4, 2017 (on schedule)

• Phase B (Development of Advanced SE sections with No Open Items): August 5, 2017 to October 20, 2018. Some sections are expected to be ready for ACRS subcommittee review by late

-May 2018*Phase C (ACRS Review and Meetings on Advanced SE): June 2018 to March 26, 2019 (ACRS Report)

• Phase D (Final SER Issuance): August 17, 2019 16 Early Site PermitQuestions?

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