ML22140A215
| ML22140A215 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 03/08/2022 |
| From: | NRC/Chairman |
| To: | |
| References | |
| Download: ML22140A215 (47) | |
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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34TH REGULATORY INFORMATION CONFERENCE (RIC)
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OPENING SESSION
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TUESDAY,
MARCH 8, 2022
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The Technical Session met via Video-
Teleconference, at 8:30 a.m. EST, The Honorable
Christopher T. Hanson, Chairman, NRC, presiding.
PRESENT:
CHRISTOPHER T. HANSON, Chairman, NRC
ANDREA VEIL, Director, Office of Nuclear Reactor
Regulation, NRC
RAY FURSTENAU, Director, Office Nuclear Regulatory
Research, NRC
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P R O C E E D I N G S
8:31 a.m.
MS. VEIL: Good morning, afternoon,
evening depending on where you are, and welcome to
the 34th Regulatory Information Conference.
I am also happy to announce it's -- happy
International Women's Day, so congratulations to all
the women who make the world go round.
I'm Andrea Veil, Director of the Office
of Nuclear Reactor Regulation, and it is a great honor
to be here today, and to have this opportunity to
welcome everyone on behalf of the U.S. Nuclear
Regulatory Commission.
NRR co-sponsors to the RIC, with our
partners in the Office of Nuclear Reactor, or excuse
me, Nuclear Regulatory Research, led by Mr. Raymond
Furstenau.
We partner with the entire agency, to
bring to you an engaging conference that addresses
how the agency is preparing for tomorrow.
Ray?
MR. FURSTENAU: Thanks, Andrea. It's an
honor to be here, and to once again, co-sponsor the
RIC with you, and your office.
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As of this morning, we've got over 3,600
participants registered, and I know I'm really
looking forward to the next two and a half days.
Next, I'd like to welcome Joseph
Goodridge, from our Office of Nuclear Security and
Instance Response, who will sing our National Anthem.
(Whereupon, the National Anthem was
performed.)
MR. FURSTENAU: Thanks, to Joseph for his
outstanding performance of the National Anthem.
And, thanks to all of you for taking the
time out of your busy schedules to engage with us
this week.
I also wanted to recognize former
chairmen and commissioners that are joining us
virtually, this week. That includes former Chairman
Meserve, Macfarlane, and Burns, and former
Commissioners Merrifield, Apostolakis, and Magwood.
We thank you for your prior service to
the NRC, and your continued involvement in nuclear
reactor regulation.
Andrea, back to you.
MS. VEIL: This year's program is
comprised of two and a half days, which feature
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morning keynote plenary sessions, followed by sets of
concurrent technical sessions.
We open this year's RIC with an
opportunity to hear from our Chairman, the Honorable
The plenary sessions this morning will
feature remarks from our commissioners, the Honorable
Jeff Baran, and the Honorable David Wright.
Plenary sessions tomorrow will include
the introduction of our new Executive Director for
Operations, Mr. Dan Dorman, and remarks from special
guest speaker, the Honorable Jennifer Granholm,
Secretary of Energy.
Tomorrow, two plenary sessions will be
focused on key topics. As this week marks the
eleventh anniversary of the Fukushima accident, one
of our special plenaries will provide an update on
decommissioning efforts.
The other special plenary session
tomorrow is titled, Women Belong in All Places Where
Nuclear Safety Decisions are Being Made. Amen.
This session will be introduced by our
Chairman Christopher Hanson, and will feature an
interview with Ms. Rumina Velshi, President and Chief
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Executive Officer, Canadian Nuclear Safety
Commission.
The interview will be conducted by Ms.
Brooke Clark, the NRC's next Secretary of the
Commission, and congratulations to Brooke.
We have 30 technical sessions between the
afternoons of today and tomorrow, and Thursday
morning.
And, thanks to our virtual platform,
you're free to move from session to session, should
you desire.
In addition, all this year's sessions are
being recorded, and will be made available for
viewing on our website after the conference.
Some of those technical sessions will be
chaired by our commissioners. For example, today at
1:00 o'clock Eastern, Chairman Hanson will chair the
session on Pre-application Engagements for New and
Advanced Reactors.
Today at 3:00 p.m. Eastern, Commissioner
Wright will chair the session on Reimagining the Role
of Nuclear Energy and the Electric Grid.
Tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. Eastern,
Commissioner Baron will chair the regional session on
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Reactor Inspection Program: Leaving Tomorrow Behind.
Also on this year's virtual conference
platform, we have 13 very engaging digital exhibits,
and a virtual tour of the NRC Incident Response
Center.
I encourage everyone to check out the
wide range of exhibit topics at your leisure, before
or after our technical sessions.
Just like last year, you, the attendees,
will be able to submit questions electronically to
the session moderator, for consideration during the
session's question and answer period.
Attendees will also have the opportunity
to contribute to the discussion, by participating in
live polling in some of our sessions.
Our digital exhibits will have contact
information, should have questions or feedback for
the staff.
Each year the planning and execution of
a conference of this magnitude, would not happen
without the hard work and dedication of so many,
including our NRC staff, our contract and partners,
and a wide array of panelists and speakers.
So, I want to take this first opportunity
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to thank everyone involved in the RIC this year.
Now I have the distinct honor of
introducing our Chairman. The Honorable Christopher
T. Hanson, was designated Chairman of the U.S.
Nuclear Regulatory Commission, by President Joe
Biden, effective January 20, 2021.
He was sworn in as a Commissioner on June
8, 2020. Chairman Hanson has more than two decades
of government and private sector experience, in the
field of nuclear energy.
Prior to joining the NRC, he served in
various roles, including staff member on the Senate
Appropriations Committee, Senior Advisor in the
Department of Energy's Office of Nuclear Energy, and
the Office of the Chief Financial Officer, and
consultant at Booz Allen Hamilton.
Chairman Hanson earned master's degrees
from Yale Divinity School, and Yale School of
Forestry Environmental Studies, where he focused on
ethics and natural resource economics.
He earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in
religious studies from Valparaiso University, in
Valparaiso, Indiana.
Welcome, Chairman Hanson, we're looking
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forward to your remarks.
CHAIRMAN HANSON: Thank you, Andrea, for
that introduction. Thank you Joseph, for that
beautiful rendition of our National Anthem. And,
I'll start with a few more thank yous.
First, thank you all for attending the
RIC virtually this year. Welcome to everyone who's
tuning in from their homes, offices, coffee shops,
public parks, across the U.S., and around the world.
I might have said this last year, but I
really am optimistic that we'll get to do this in
person, next year.
This is our second virtual RIC, and once
again, I'm incredibly impressed by the dedication of
the NRC staff, in putting on what will be an
interesting and informative, three days of panel
discussions, speeches, and other virtual events.
I hope you all take advantage of the
virtual platform to learn new things, and join
conversations.
To Andrea, Ray, their teams, the clever
CIO crew, and the many others who make the RIC
possible, a heartfelt thank you.
As Andrea mentioned, the RIC this year
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again, begins on International Women's Day. This
year, we have two sessions dedicated to highlighting
the incredible contributions that women continue to
make, to nuclear regulation and global policy.
I particularly want to thank the women,
whose talents continue to make the NRC the gold
standard around the world.
Tomorrow I'm looking forward to a
discussion with President Rumina Velshi, of the
Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, where you will
hear me reaffirm my commitment to gender equity, and
an inclusive NRC.
I'd also like to thank my colleagues on
the Commission. We've accomplished a lot in the last
year, even though we didn't always agree.
Having different perspectives while
continuing to work together, is imperative to the
health of our institution.
Finally, I'd like to say thank you to my
staff. Both my permanent staff, and those who joined
me on rotation.
Not only for their efforts to prepare me
for the RIC this year, no small task, but also for
their hard work over the past year. We've kept up a
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remarkable pace, and they have not let up.
So, thank you to Kathleen Blake, and
Patty Jimenez, Molly Marsh, Cinthya Roman, Tony
Nakanishi, Olivia Mikula, Mandy Mauer, Lisa Dimmick,
Hipo Gonzalez, Mike Clark, and Margaret Cervera, who
I forgot to thank last year.
Like all of you, I've been monitoring the
situation in Ukraine with grave concern. My heart
goes out to the people of Ukraine in this desperate
time.
The Russian Federation's violation of
Ukraine's sovereignty, independence, and territorial
integrity, is a tragedy with wide-ranging impacts.
The unprecedented nature of Russia's
actions on Ukrainian nuclear safety, security, and
safeguards, hits especially close to home for the
NRC.
At the NRC and across the U.S.
government, we share IAEA Director General Grossi's
concerns about Russians, about Russia's actions, and
echo his call to refrain from any measures that could
jeopardize the security of nuclear materials, or the
safe operation of Ukraine's nuclear facilities.
I'd like to commend our partners at the
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state Nuclear Regulatory Inspectorate of Ukraine, for
their continuous updates to the IAEA, and the
international community, despite the obvious
challenges they are facing.
I also want to highlight the bravery and
dedication of Ukrainian regulatory and operational
staff, in carrying out their essential duties in the
face of extraordinarily trying and dangerous
circumstances.
The NRC will continue to remain engaged
with its U.S. government colleagues, to monitor the
situation, and we will stand in solidarity with our
Ukrainian regulatory partners.
We will continue our longstanding support
to Ukraine as it works to protect, sustain, and if
necessary, restore the safe and secure operation of
its nuclear facilities.
Last year, I spoke about my initial
approach to my tenure at the NRC, and I painted a
picture of the NRC as an institution with three
related efforts in the form of a triangle. With
risk-informed regulation, agency transformation, and
diversity inclusion at each vertex.
Undergirding that triangle are three
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pillars: regulatory independence, data, and the
people who form the agency.
This year I want to build on that
foundation, and talk about the NRC's role as an
effective trusted regulator, by highlighting three
concepts: process, accountability, and legitimacy.
You've heard many people, myself
included, say that the NRC must not be an impediment
to the safe use of nuclear power and materials, new
or existing.
But what does that mean? And, what
happens if the NRC doesn't get it right? I'm talking
about this from two perspectives.
First, what is most often talked about,
having a regulatory framework that applicants and
licensees, as well as the general public, can
successfully understand and navigate, tailored to the
risk profiles associated with the reactors, and
materials in question.
And, second, licensing and oversight that
does not miss any safety significant issues, thus
calling into question our framework.
As I see it, the NRC is an integral part
of deploying new nuclear, even if we're not building
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or promoting it. Without a license from a credible,
trusted regulator, society simply will not accept it.
As a federal agency, we are ultimately
accountable to the American people.
I fully understand that we don't regulate
to assuage the public's fears. But we must
acknowledge that there are fears around nuclear, and
consider how those fears affect deployment.
This is particularly relevant
considering the recent seizure of nuclear facilities
in Ukraine, resulting in an attack and fire at the
largest nuclear power plant in Europe.
Such recent events have understandably
been very alarming to the general public.
And, to understand the public's concerns,
we have to look at what information, mis-information,
and dis-information is being received, and how that
information, or mis-information, or dis-information,
is being used by the public, to assess risk.
Domestically, we find ourselves in a time
of what the RAND Corporation cleverly calls truth
decay, and what the writer Jonathan Rauch has called
an epistemic crisis.
Folks are just having a hard time telling
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truth from fiction.
Truth decay has also contributed to a
decline in the trust of government.
I don't want to get sidetracked by
talking about the pandemic, but I think it's really
highlighted individuals' ability to sift through
information, and assess risk.
And, it has shown the wide spectrum of
risk tolerance among individuals, and the general
distrust of government. I try to keep this in mind
when I shape my decisions.
In the past few years, as climate change
and energy security have come to the fore as
existential threats, many have rallied around nuclear
as the solution for clean power, including many you
would not expect.
There's a wave of excitement around
getting new reactors online quickly, and the NRC is
necessarily caught up in that wave.
But a note of caution. Let me quote
former NRC Chairman Dale Klein, whose advice I've
greatly appreciated during my tenure at the agency.
In a speech in 2007, he said, and I quote,
if the nuclear power business is treated with less
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than the seriousness it deserves, and people begin to
think that anyone can just jump on the nuclear
bandwagon, it opens up the very real danger of making
the wave of a nuclear resurgence look more like a
bubble, and bubbles have a tendency to pop, unquote.
The NRC has an obligation to remain
independent of the excitement, and hold on to our
objectivity, rather than let ourselves by pushed by
the wave, or caught in a bubble.
We're independent, but not isolated.
Independence is an imperative for a effectiveness,
and public trust.
Yet we must also transform how we work,
so we can meet new demands, while never losing sight
of our core responsibilities, overseeing existing
uses of nuclear power and materials.
Everyone, industry, and the public,
benefits from a trusted, independent regulator.
One of the most important characteristics
of an effective regulator is having a clear and
transparent processes in place, to ensure objective
decision making.
Licensing a nuclear reactor is
necessarily a meticulous process, and while
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flexibility will be important for new designs, the
process and guardrails must be sufficiently
predictable for applicants, and transparent and
understandable for the public.
Some people will roll their eyes and say,
leave it to a government bureaucrat to give a speech
defending the process, but hear me out.
I've said that nuclear safety is an
epistemological question. What do we know, how do
we know it, and what difference does it make? The
how is just as important as the other pieces of that
formulation.
As we further risk inform our approaches
to implementing our regulations, and even as we
further develop more performance based approaches,
process oftentimes gains greater importance.
Novel concepts continue to emerge, and
the agency must meet these challenges with
flexibility. However, maintaining process as an
integral part of our regulatory framework, is one way
we can continue to ensure adequate protection in all
that we do.
We ask our kids to show their work in
math class, so they, and we, can see the process from
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point A to point B. If the answer is wrong, then we
can help them go back through and find the error.
Similarly, when applicants come to us
with new reactor designs, we look not only at their
claims of performance or safety, but importantly, at
their methodology for reaching those conclusions.
The old adage applies here, too: show
your work.
And finally, there's the National
Environmental Policy Act, or NEPA, a law often
misunderstood, and frequently maligned by both
supporters and detractors.
What does NEPA require? It requires the
evaluation of environmental impacts of a federal
action or decision, and it allows the public to review
and comment on that evaluation.
It's rightly understood or thought of, as
a process law. People understandably, look to NEPA
to give them a voice in government decision making.
In short, process matters, and this
brings us to the next two concepts I want to
highlight. Accountability and legitimacy.
All that process provides
accountability. We're accountable to the public,
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applicants and licensees, other federal agencies,
states and tribes, and we're accountable to
ourselves.
When done correctly, the process
determines objectivity, and the outcome. Outside
parties can look at our processes, and validate
whether we did what we said we were going to do.
We expect the same of our licensees.
Indeed, some of our most significant enforcement
actions involve falsification of documentation.
That is a violation of the process, which is
significant because it calls into question
conclusions about safety or security. It undermines
the how we know what we know.
A big part of accountability is
maintaining a safety culture, where everyone in the
organization is willing to raise concerns, and in
turn, make corrections if they're warranted.
As President Biden says, when you mess
up, fess up. And, I would add, fix it. That goes
for the Commission, as well as the staff.
Finally, process confers legitimacy and
credibility on our decisions. Ordinary individuals
are not likely to understand the technical details of
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some of our reviews. But they're much more likely
to understand our process, at least in general terms.
First, we looked at X, then we
independently reviewed Y, then we analyzed Z, and so
on. Process is the way the public knows they can
trust us when we reach a safety conclusion.
Legitimacy and credibility must be
earned, and fervently upheld and protected. At the
foundation of our legitimacy is the core technical
competence of the NRC staff, in which I have full
faith.
But we must continue to invest in the
people who make up the agency, and bring in new
talent. Both with their own expertise, and the
ability to learn from our existing staff.
There are a lot of competing demands on
the NRC staff. Our top priority must be, must
continue to be the oversight of existing reactors,
and uses of materials.
For years, as the nuclear industry
shrank, has been shrinking, the NRC was told to
shrink, too. And, we did.
Since 2014, the number of operating
nuclear power plants has shrunk by 10 percent, and
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the NRC staff has shrunk by more than 20 percent.
Meanwhile, the excitement outside the NRC
is on new reactors, and building them quickly. We've
been changing course to be ready, and we're doing our
best to have the necessary resources in place.
A key indicator of our legitimacy going
forward, is our ability to continue to transform our
inward-facing, and outward-facing processes.
Ideally, citizens, applicants, and
licensees, will see modernization of government at
the same pace and scale, that they see in the private
sector. That's not easy.
Transformation for me has never, repeat
never, been about cutting regulations or staff. For
me, it's about making better regulatory decisions by
bringing our data, and the full expertise of the
agency, to bear on an issue.
Sometimes that results in greater focus
in some areas and less in others, depending on risk
significance. I'm willing to follow the data.
For many in the agency, transformation
has been extra duty, which people have been largely
willing to do. But it's not sustainable. Our people
have been stretched thin by multiple demands, and the
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Covid public health emergency.
Transformation, rather than being an
exciting initiative, has in many cases, become a
burden.
And, sometimes what we call
transformation, is really just internally shifting
responsibilities, rather than truly rethinking what
needs to be done, why, and which parts of the
organization are best suited to the task.
For me, our transformation efforts are
inextricably linked to the hiring initiative
spearheaded by our EDO, Dan Dorman, and our Chief
Human Capitol Officer, Mary Lamary.
Annual attrition at the NRC is running
about 7 percent, which means we need to hire roughly
200 people a year, just to stay at current staffing
levels. A level by the way, that we know will not
be sufficient to meet the challenges of the future.
Not when 24 percent of our people are
over the age of 60, and 55 percent are over the age
of 50. All of them looking forward to a very well-
earned retirement.
And, we need to expand our perspective
about how, who, and where we are recruiting.
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Building the diverse workforce of the future, and
agency transformation, go hand-in-hand.
Equally important, transformation is
about preparing the agency for a range of possible
futures, potentially a wide range of possible
futures.
With regard to nuclear reactors, we have
an existing fleet, some of which are decommissioning,
and some of which are continuing to optimize their
operations, and seeking to extend their licenses out
to 80 years.
We have to get our house in order on NEPA,
and continue to efficiently review applications for
Then we have new light water reactor
designs with a lot of technological adjacency with
the existing fleet, poised for near-term deployment.
And we have advanced reactors, which
build off decades of research and development in
fuels and materials, that have the potential to
greatly expand the economic use cases for nuclear
power.
With developments, and fuels, and
materials, we've seen increased engagement on uranium
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enrichment, fuel fabrication and transportation.
Therefore, our forecasts and preparations for the
future, must address all segments of the nuclear fuel
cycle.
Also in the materials area, we have a
growing number of Agreement States. Thirty-nine to
date, and we have two additional applications.
We must adjust to state agencies taking
on more of the materials licensing and oversight
roles, by taking a close look at our inspection
procedures, our integrated materials performance
evaluation program, and capacity building, among new
Agreement States.
There are advances in nuclear medicine,
with an expanding array of radioisotopes and
treatment modalities.
Patients and their families should be
able to continue to count on us, to efficiently
evaluate new technologies, and oversee the safe and
secure use of these materials.
Finally, the security and incident
response situation is constantly shifting.
Especially with regard to cyber security,
international events, and domestic political
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polarization.
Our partnerships across government,
federal, state, tribal, local, are crucial to our
security awareness and posture, emergency
preparedness, and incident response.
It's a dynamic situation, to put it
mildly, and I didn't even talk about fusion.
I don't know which future will come to
pass, but I do know that any future will require a
flexible, efficient, transparent regulatory
framework, implemented by experts dedicated to
continuous learning and improvement.
My view is that we've made significant
progress over the last couple of years. By way of
example, I want to spend a minute or two, talking
about the development of our risk-informed
performance based regulatory framework, for advanced
reactors. Also known by its proposed place in the
Code of Federal Regulations, Part 53.
The staff's taken an innovative approach
to development of this rule, by engaging stakeholders
early and often, in the process.
We've received feedback, sometimes, even
oftentimes, conflicting, from many stakeholders
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addressing key issues, such as the use of
probabilistic risk assessment, and risk information
more generally.
Appropriate criteria for a performance
based approach, and how to accommodate a wide range
of both technologies, and technological maturity
levels, in the advanced reactor community.
I've been substantially involved in this
effort, receiving regular updates from the staff, as
well as hearing directly from stakeholders.
And, let me say this, I've been pleased
with the approach and the progress the staff is
making.
Work is ongoing. But they're being
thoughtful and deliberate, taking care to maintain
some adjacency to existing frameworks, while being
creative where needed, to craft a balanced and
protective rule.
I have every confidence that the staff
will produce a rule that adequately protects people
and the environment, while allowing a range of
technologies and licensing approaches, in the
timeframe set out by the Commission.
While the agency develops the new
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framework, the staff is working commendably within
our existing regulations, to review reactor
applications and topical reports, that are ready now.
I started this speech talking about the
importance of process. Its importance for
objectively determining reasonable assurance of
adequate protection.
For accountability, and for public trust
and legitimacy, not just for the NRC, but for the
entire industry.
And, I've talked a lot about change. One
of the key themes of my speech last year, was change
in the context of an institution.
Adapting is essential. But in doing so,
we must preserve and further the goals of the
institution, adequately protecting people and the
environment, and overseeing the safe and secure use
of nuclear power and materials.
To be an effective regulator, we must be
careful we don't create instability in the
institution, that could throw things off balance, and
undermine our legitimacy. It is a challenge to which
we must rise, and I know we will.
So, we need to do several things at once.
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First, we need to uphold our institutional values.
Stay true to our principles of good regulation,
independence, openness, efficiency, clarity, and
reliability.
Second, we need to continue to risk
inform our regulations so we're focused on the most
safety and security significant issues by leveraging
data, and training our people.
We need to apply modern technology to
yield safety and security insights, to communicate
more clearly, and to streamline and modernize our
business processes.
In other words, we need to drive change
in the context of our overall mission and values.
And, finally, and perhaps most crucially,
we need to recognize each other as the future of
nuclear safety and security, and as the bearers of
the sacred trust of the American people.
The NRC is just people. That's all it
is. That's all any organization is. Honest, smart,
and talented, yet fallible.
Dedicated and engaged, yet weary after
two years of a pandemic. Creative and eager, yet
unsure about the future.
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Together, we will honor the work of those
who came before us, and we will sustain the
institution as we advance.
Thank you for listening, and for
attending this year's RIC.
Andrea, back to you.
MS. VEIL: Thank you, Chairman, for number
one, laying out so many themes in such an eloquent
way, in such a short period of time.
And, this is a reminder to those on the
platform, if you have questions, you can select the
Q&A tab in the upper right-hand box, and type your
questions in.
So, whenever you're ready, Chairman, I
have the first question ready for you.
CHAIRMAN HANSON: Go for it.
MS. VEIL: Okay, the first question is,
you discuss the NRC not being a hurdle for new and
advanced reactor technology. The NRC has yet to
fully approve new reactor technology. How can the
NRC ensure that its processes are not causing new and
advanced reactor technology, to wither on the vine?
CHAIRMAN HANSON: Great question. I think
one of the main things we can do is really, and I'm
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going to have a session on this, this just this
afternoon, so I appreciate kind of the tee-up on this,
is really pre-application activities.
And, as much pre-application activity as
applicants are ready for. And, on specific technical
topics. So, that, the staff is already familiar with
the technology that comes in. It's already familiar
with the fuel types, and the materials, and the other
technical aspects that we might receive.
I really, part of the discussion this
afternoon will be about lessons learned from GE, and
TerraPower, and Kairos, on this front. And, things
that I'm sure the NRC can be doing better in this
space, too.
So, we're really leaning into these
engagements, this interaction, and we'll continue to
do that.
MS. VEIL: Right, next question. Do you
expect acceleration in applications for new nuclear
power plants, as a result of high energy prices?
CHAIRMAN HANSON: That's a great question.
I mean, the issue I think, is probably going to be
natural gas prices. There isn't a lot of oil fueled
power plants in the country.
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And, so sometimes natural gas and oil
prices move together, and sometimes they don't. And,
we'll just have to see.
I think one of the interesting things
about some of these newer designs, is the idea that
they can be built and deployed, more quickly. And,
that potentially changes the economics, in terms of
response to energy prices going forward. So, we'll
have to kind of see on that.
At least in the public announcements that
we've seen out in the world, that I think everybody's
seen out in the world, is much more about
decarbonizing power production for, you know, at
least from some of the major utilities in this
country.
And, so I think carbon is a major issue,
but certainly energy prices could be a factor, as
well.
MS. VEIL: This next question has to do
with transformation, and it first thanks you for your
statement on transformation.
You mention transformation versus just
shifting responsibilities. This is a large
undertaking and as you said, we have decreased the
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size of staff, putting us at a disadvantage in having
sufficient resources to conduct change, while
ensuring our mission.
How do we best carve out time and
resources, to really transform, and what risk
appetite does the commission and senior managers have
for real transformation?
CHAIRMAN HANSON: Wow, that's a great
question, and there are a lot of questions in there.
So, I think I'll probably start with the last one and
kind of move up.
I have a lot of appetite for
transformation. I was having this discussion with
my staff on a trip a few weeks ago, and I said, boy,
you know, I'd like to see, I'd like to understand
more about both what's going on in the agency, and
I've done that some.
And, at one point, they kind of threw up
their hands and they said, well, what do you want on
transformation? I said, I want more.
So, I think particularly on the business
side. I look at it as one of the strategic
imperatives I think, of transformation, is, is really
around exactly what this person is asking, right?
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Whereas the agency shrunk, but the
mission, in a lot of ways, the scope has kind of
stayed the same, right?
The operating reactors has changed
somewhat, but we still have a lot of licensing
actions, we've got a lot of interest on advanced
reactors, and so on and so forth.
And, yet like a lot of government
agencies, we've got demographic pressures on us.
And, so how do we use transformation to focus on the
most important activities, right, that we have?
And, I want to say, this is a little
inside of the agency, but I know a lot of that line
staff have felt that burden of, of transformation.
And, so I think that augmenting our staff
in some ways, you know, pushing ahead with this hiring
initiative that Dan and Mary have going, is really
critical in order to provide some relief.
There's kind of that adage you have to
spend money to make money. This is kind of the same
thing, right? You need a few extra people around to
actually drive change in the organization because, so
that everybody has a little bit more bandwidth to do
that. That's really the idea there.
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MS. VEIL: All right, this next question
has to do with software digitalization, which is a
mouthful to say for me.
What are your views on software
digitalization, and how we make our fleet safer and
more cost effective?
CHAIRMAN HANSON: So, I assume this is a
digital instrumentation and control question, which
is also a mouthful.
MS. VEIL: Uh huh.
CHAIRMAN HANSON: Look, this is something
that I've been very interested in since I came to the
agency, about how we get, again, that, people have
heard me talk about having a regulatory line of sight
on some of these things, and getting clarity on that.
Revisiting where necessary, was it the
1993 policy on common cause failure, and getting
some, getting some regulatory transparency, clarity,
certainty, whatever you want to call it on that issue
for licensees.
All while we're making sure that we've
got appropriate redundancy where necessary, we've got
the firewalls in place where necessary, hardware, as
well as software, to protect these systems.
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Look, I mean I'm very interested in this
issue both on the technical side of this, but also on
the human factor side, which I think is another, which
is another thing we can and should, be interacting
with light applicants and licensees on.
So, I think it's important, each utility
will make their own business decision about whether
or not to invest in that. It's not an insignificant
cost to them, I understand that.
But I'm committed to having at least for
the NRC's part, again a predictable and clear process
for addressing digital INC.
MS. VEIL: Okay, toward the end of your
remarks, you mentioned fusion. So, this question has
to do with fusion.
What might the role of the NRC be in the
use of nuclear fusion?
CHAIRMAN HANSON: That's a great question.
I think we're trying to figure that out, right?
Because in some cases, it depends on the
fusion technology itself. In some cases, it might
be perfectly appropriate because it falls under Part
30, that our Agreement State partners are going to be
involved in that.
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So, it's not just a matter for us. I
mean, there are kind of key regulatory issues about
activation products, and tritium, and some other
things that I think the staff is still learning about.
And, thinking about where that fits.
Also, this issue of having a burning
plasma, and what the risk significance of that is,
and what the safety systems are.
So, I wasn't trying to neglect fusion.
I'm actually really interested in this topic. But
we're still kind of, we're still figuring that out.
I think we're in learning mode.
We're hearing from stakeholders both
individually and collectively, with the Fusion
Industries Association. We're hearing from our
state, Agreement State partners on this as well.
And, we're starting to kind of piece this
together.
MS. VEIL: Next question.
Internationally, there's a great interest in globally
accepted licenses. How is the view of NRC? Will you
accept design approvals from other regulators? Are
there any activities in this direction?
CHAIRMAN HANSON: I'll acknowledge that
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there are a lot of, there is interest in this, you
know, what's kind of called harmonization.
But I'll echo my colleague in the U.K.
We had a, he and I, and President Velshi from the
Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, were in a
discussion with Director General Grossi.
And, my British counterpart, Mark Foy, we
were talking about harmonization, and this was
something that the Director General is very
interested in.
And, Mark had a thing that was kind of
like, yes, yes, yes, but sovereignty. And,
sovereignty is really important.
Because I'm not accountable to the
British people, I'm accountable to the American
people. And, the American people look to us, look
to the NRC for us to make our own determinations.
And, in a way, to reflect the risk
tolerance, and the kind of, the policy environment
that we're in.
Now, having said that, right, the laws,
and the theories, and principles of physics, work in
the United States the same way they do in Canada, and
Britain, and Poland, and other places, right?
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So, is there room to collaborate on the
technical aspects of advanced reactors? Absolutely,
and we have a memorandum of cooperation with Canada
doing exactly that. Where we're sharing information
and approaches.
Now, is that a universal license? No,
but at the same time, and I don't think it should be,
frankly. But at the same time, does that mean that
every applicant has to come up with an entirely new
set of information or data? Well, I think that's
probably where there's some work that can be done.
MS. VEIL: Okay, next question. How has
the COVID-19 pandemic affected your risk-informed
decision making, and how has the NRC addressed the
challenges?
CHAIRMAN HANSON: Oh boy, that's a great
question. I've been so proud of the NRC staff and
the way we've adapted.
I mean, and some of this was just some,
some really great foresight by our Chief Information
Officer, Dave Nelson, who, we moved from desktops to
laptops probably six months before the pandemic.
And, boy aren't we glad we did.
And, he had made a number of other
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investments internally. So, when the pandemic hit,
I think other agencies were getting, you know,
supplemental and emergency appropriations for
hundreds, tens and millions of dollars, hundreds of
millions of dollars, to kind of upgrade their
infrastructure.
I think the NRC, we got $3 million, and
it was to improve, kind of the bandwidth into the
building, and really help people do VPN. And, a
couple of other minor things. I'm just so impressed
and proud.
And, we've adapted in all kinds of other
ways.
I do think though, that and I've said
this at commission meetings, right, the nuclear
safety and security, is, it's a contact sport, right?
It's boots on the ground.
There's nothing quite like having NRC
people around with our NRC badges, and our NRC hard
hats, in facilities and checking things out.
And, so while we were able to do some
things like remote inspections, or some materials
inspections remotely, and some other things, those
were really important in the pandemic, right? People
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didn't want us going into hospitals. People didn't
want to go into hospitals.
That was kind of sufficient temporarily,
but not something that we necessarily want to do in
the long-term.
On the other hand, you know, you look at
our resident inspectors and, you know, very quickly,
our licensees provided them with remote access into
their systems, either by providing with laptops or a
VPN, or whatever.
So, there were things that they could do
remotely. Review documents, and other things,
without having to be onsite for some of those direct
sampling.
So, I think we're working on the lessons
learned in the agency, that's been kind of an ongoing
process. And, I know we're going to share the
results of that publicly, when we kind of crystalize
some of those lessons.
MS. VEIL: Okay, this next question is
long, and it's multi-faceted so I'm going to speak
slowly.
CHAIRMAN HANSON: Let me get out my pen.
MS. VEIL: All right, get ready.
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CHAIRMAN HANSON: Okay.
MS. VEIL: NRC regulatory processes within
nuclear reactor regulation, benefit from a clear set
of procedures that were first developed in the mid-
1990s, to clarify the myriad of regulatory guidance,
and to clear standards for regulation.
Processes in other area, for example,
decommissioning, new reactor designs, et cetera, rely
on regulatory guidance, rather than clear rules.
Clear rules in these other areas are definitely
needed.
Since these diverse areas cannot be
addressed simultaneously, where and how, would you
prioritize rule making in select areas?
CHAIRMAN HANSON: That's a great question.
I mean, this gets to the heart of a lot of our efforts
on Part 53 and advanced reactors, right?
It's along that spectrum between
predictability and flexibility. And, where should
we be in that, right?
Where do we have rules on the flexibility
part, and where do we have guidance? We got a lot
of feedback on that question, right? Our staff, and
not all of it entirely, entirely consistent.
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And, I'll be honest, I'm not exactly sure
where we should be on that continuum. Because I
think in different issues, we're going to be in
different places.
I think having that option for having
clear rules, or having guidance, lets us evaluate
each one of these things kind of individually.
Now, we have to learn, we have to be
cognizant, that there's some consistency in there,
right. We can't kind of do this, we can't, you know,
pick one end of the spectrum or the other, at random.
But I do agree that having a set of
procedures is important. We've got a couple of
papers in front of the Commission on this.
50.46(c), I think is an example of that
where we're, you know, that paper I think the staff
proposes to be more on the procedure end of, and the
predictability end, of things.
Likewise, a rulemaking plan for a higher
enrichment, higher burn up fuel, which is another
paper in front of the Commission, right. Again,
having rulemaking around those things, rather than
guidance.
There are going to be other things
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though, that are more appropriate on the other end of
the spectrum.
MS. VEIL: All right, now you used this
word in your speech and I remember trying to pronounce
it out, and so here it comes in a question again.
Your framing of regulations as
epistemological work, now did I get that right?
CHAIRMAN HANSON: Yes.
MS. VEIL: Seems insightful and suited to
the time we're living in. Can you say more about
the, what the NRC can do to safeguard its interactions
with stakeholders in an era of truth-challenged
public discourse, and which you talked about truth
decay?
CHAIRMAN HANSON: That's a great
question. I was having a conversation with our
Office of Public Affairs staff, who I think, who feel
this challenge particularly acutely in the agency.
But I think everybody does.
And, I think that one of the key things
we can do is just be as open, and as transparent as
possible. And, the NRC has done remarkable job of
that over the years.
People complain about ADAMS, our online
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document management system, but literally everything
is out there.
We have public dockets, we have, you
know, with the exception of some business sensitive
information, security information, we really do make
everything available.
I think, and sometimes the NRC can do a
better job of the translation function, and, but
translation function isn't easy. And, there are some
concepts that don't always lend themselves to
translation.
But I had this, I was doing an emergency
planning exercise recently. And, I honestly, oh, it
was for Limerick. And, we do these things every
couple of years, and we work with FEMA, and state and
local.
And, I was over in the Operations Center,
and I was playing my role as Chairman, and we were,
had everything staffed up, and the screens going, and
lots of activity.
And, one of the managers that we had in
our nuclear security incident response group said
okay, this is the part where I take you into this
backroom, and I brief you.
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And, so I said okay, great. And, we went
in, and we sat down, and he gave me the spiel about
what was happening at the plant under this exercise
scenario. And, I said, fantastic. Now say it again
in English.
Because, right, I mean everybody, you
know, I'm not necessarily a technical person. But I
also knew that I was, in my role in this incident, I
was going to have to go explain what was going on.
If this was a real situation, I was going
to have to go explain what was going on to National
Security Council, to the Secretary of Homeland, to
the Secretary of Energy, et cetera, right. And, I
needed that in plain English.
And, he kind of caught up a little bit,
and he went, he kind of took a breath, and he said,
okay. And, then we did it again, and it was great.
And, it's that kind of, you know, we're
a technical agency. We're a technical regulator.
We're really good at that.
But sometimes, you know, there's what's
this cliche, right, I have to go home and explain it
to my mom, or to my sister, or whatever, who aren't
in the agency. I think there's some more we could
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do there.
MS. VEIL: Okay, next question.
Given the variety of advanced nuclear
technologies, do you think NRC should move away from
prescriptive regulation?
CHAIRMAN HANSON: Well, I see that kind of
like the situation a couple of questions ago, right,
where there is this kind of more prescriptive end
that is, that's predicable.
And, there is the, and then there's the
flexibility.
And, I did talk, I think in my speech,
quite a bit about the need for flexibility. And, for
performance based approaches, right, where we're
focused on the outcome, and less on prescribing
specific methodologies for getting to that outcome.
Now, that doesn't mean that any
methodology is okay, right? It's the show your work.
We get to validate whether those methodologies for
assessing, or for meeting the requirements of those
performance based criteria, are adequate.
Because again, if they're not, or if we
think that they don't work in some way, it calls into
question the conclusions. Which is ultimately what
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we're about. We're about safety conclusions.
So, it's going to depend. It depends.
MS. VEIL: And, we have time for one more
question. You mentioned data in your speech. Can
you talk more about, you're very busy, so can you
talk more about how you and your staff use your data,
or data analytics, to make your job easier, or how
you use it in your day-to-day interactions?
CHAIRMAN HANSON: Yes, great question. I
mean, certainly in a couple of key areas. I mean,
one is certainly on the budget and internal
processes, right?
I've worked in CFO offices, and so I'm
like, give me all the information. And, the CIO has
really done a great job I think recently, of turning
that data into information.
And, then I would say in other areas,
it's in a lot of the papers, I use it quite a bit
just, just in papers.
I mean, medical technologies, right,
where we have a lot of data about the use of
radioactive materials, and what issues might arise
with those.
We see it in some of the fuel papers we've
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seen, and some of the other nuclear papers we've seen.
Whether that's the ISI-IST inspections, or other
kinds of things, right.
So, what does the data tell us, and how
can we use that to kind of inform moving forward.
So, I'm really constantly asking staff about okay,
well let's gather the data on this.
And, let's see what that says, and then
let's kind of, kind of move forward.
And, I have to say, I mean we've used on
a number of occasions, too, the tools that we've got
out there that are Mapex, and, you know, other kind
of performance data on the plants, so.
MS. VEIL: Well, Chairman, thank you so
much for breaking the ice and opening our second
virtual, a little bit in person, RIC, your expert
remarks, and for fielding the questions.
And, with that, I close the session.
Thank you so much.
CHAIRMAN HANSON: Thank you, Andrea, thank
you, Ray.
(Whereupon, the above-entitled matter
went off the record at 9:27 a.m.)
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