ML20346A175

NRC-2016-000721 - Resp 2 - Interim

ML20346A175
Person / Time
Issue date:	02/08/2017
From:	Mcmillan J NRC/OCIO
To:	Lochbaum D Union of Concerned Scientists
References
FOIA, NRC-2016-000721
Download: ML20346A175 (63)

Text

Dear FOIA Requester:

The FOIA Improvement Act of 2016, which was enacted on June 30, 2016, made several changes to the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). Federal agencies must revise their FOIA regulations to reflect those changes by December 27, 2016. In addition to revising our regulations, we intend to update the Form 464, which we use to respond to FOIA requests.

In the interim, please see the comment box in Part I.C of the attached Form 464. The comment box includes information related to the recent changes to FOIA that is applicable to your FOIA request, including an updated time period for filing an administrative appeal with the NRC.

Sincerely yours, S~ 5~ ISi Stephanie Blaney FOIA Officer

NRC FORM 464 Part I (OIG)

U.S. NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION FOIA RESPONSE NUMBER (12-2015) c>>>-"Jllitaqt I

l I I

~¥~

RESPONSE TO FREEDOM OF 2016-0721 2

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INFORMATION ACT (FOIA) REQUEST

.. -')........

RESPONSE [Z]

TYPE INTERIM FINAL REQUESTER:

DATE:

!David Lochbaum 11 EEB O 8 ?OH I DESCRIPTION OF REQUESTED RECORDS:

Request for 35 documents by ADAMS Accession Number PART I. -INFORMATION RELEASED Agency records subject to the request are already available in public ADAMS or on microfiche in the NRC Public Document Room.

Agency records subject to the request are enclosed.

Records subject to the request that contain information originated by or of interest to another Federal agency have been referred to that agency (see comments section) for a disclosure determination and direct response to you.

0 We are continuing to process your request.

0 See Comments.

PART I.A - FEES AMOUNT"

$ II II You will be billed by NRC for the amount listed.

None. Minimum fee threshold not met.

• see Comments for details You will receive a refund for the amount listed.

Fees waived.

PART I.B - INFORMATION NOT LOCATED OR WITHHELD FROM DISCLOSURE D We did not locate any agency records responsive to your request. Note: Agencies may treat three discrete categories of law enforcement and national security records as not subject to the FOIA ("exclusions"). 5 U.S.C. 552(c). This is a standard notification given to all requesters: it should not be taken to mean that any excluded records do, or do not, exist.

We have withheld certain information pursuant to the FOIA exemptions described, and for the reasons stated, in Part II.

0 Because this is an interim response to your request, you may not appeal at this time. We will notify you of your right to appeal any of the responses we have issued in response to your request when we issue our final determination.

D You may appeal this final determination within 30 calendar days of the date of this response by sending a letter or email to the FOIA Officer, at U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Washington, D.C. 20555-0001, or FOIJ\\,ResoJ,Jrc;;.e.@_r:m;;.,g_Q\\l.

Please be sure to include on your letter or email that it is a "FOIA Appeal."

PART I.C COMMENTS ( Use attached Comments continuation page if required)

In confonnance with the FOIA Improvement Act of 2016, the NRC is informing you that you have the right to seek assistance from the NRC's FOIA Public Liaison.

This interim response addresses nine more of the records listed in your request. Since the date of your request, these records have been removed from ADAMS. However, because the NRC was able to locate them by the accession numbers when your request was received, except as noted below, we have processed the records. We have enclosed

[ continued on next page]

~A.Tl'--

.. *~-ECTOR GENERAL FOR INVESTIGATIONS, OIG iu.

JVJ-.r.., _ ** JYLl,.JYL i an NRC Form 464 Part I (OIG) (12-2015)

Page 2 of 3

NRC FORM 464 Part I (OIG)

(12-2015)

U.S. NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION RESPONSE TO FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT (FOIA) REQUEST Continued REQUESTER:

lnavid Lochbaum PART I.C COMMENTS (Continued)

FOIA 1

2016-0721

RESPONSE

TYPE RESPONSE NUMBER 11 2

INTERIM FINAL DATE:

II FEB O 8 2017 I copies of ML16238A007, ML16238A008, ML16244A009, and ML l 6245A002. Note that these records already included redactions of certain content within them; we have determined that these records, in their redacted format, may be released to you in their entirety.

ML! 6238A005, ML! 6238A006, ML16238A009, ML! 6245A000, and ML! 6245A00 1 were determined to be personal, not agency, records for the reasons set forth below and, accordingly, are not subject to the FOIA and have not been processed.

-- ML16238A005 is a partial transcript of interview that contains as its initial page a typewritten notation apparently prepared by the individual who received the transcript in response to a FOIA request. In addition, it appears this same individual annotated page 15 of the transcript by adding a boxed comment. Since the Office of Inspector General did not locate another copy of this record in its records systems, we determined it is a personal record.

-- ML16238A006 is a transcript of interview that contains a handwritten notation on page 25, line 22, apparently written by the individual who received the transcript in response to a FOIA request. Since the Office oflnspector General did not locate another copy of this record in its records systems, we determined it is a personal record.

-- ML16238A009 is a transcript of interview that contains highlighting of selective text appearing on pages 11-12, apparently added by the individual who received the transcript in response to a FOIA request. Since the Office of Inspector General did not locate another copy of this record in its records systems, we determined it is a personal record.

-- Both ML16245A000 and ML 16245A00 I consist of multiple pages from two different OIG investigative files, selectively culled from the totality of the files, with typewritten commentary and highlighting throughout, apparently added by the individual who received these pages in response to a FOIA request. Since the Office oflnspector General did not locate another copy of these records in its records systems, we determined they are personal records.

NRC Form 464 Part I (OIG) (12-2015)

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OfFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL

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x IN THE MATTER OF :

INTERVI EW OF OIG Case No.

13- 001 (C'LOSED)

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x at 9:37 a.m.

BEFORE:

cf :

Wednesday, October 24, 2012 OIG/AIGI Interview Room OS-COS One White flint North 11555 Rockville Pi ke Rockville, Maryland 20852-2738 The above-entitled interview was conducted Special Special Agent I Agent L-..---- ------'

Office of the Inspector General U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 11555 Rockville Pike FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANO TRANSCRIBERS I.-.,-,.. 7

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2 Rockville, Maryland 20852 SPECIAL AGENT ll>K7JiCJ (9:37 a.m.)

This is an official Office of the Inspector General investigation, and the i nterview is being conducted under the authority of the Inspector General Act Today's date i s October 24, 2012, and the time is 9:37 a. m.

My name i s LJ _

<oJCT_k_c, __..,l, and I am a Special Agent / Criminal Investigator with the Nuclear Regulatory Commiss ion Office of the Inspector General.

This is a recorded interview of 1o:o~c, I being conducted at the OIG office in Rockville, Maryland, at the One White Flint building.

t11_v_~_1 _ _..l do you understand an::l conser.t to the recor d i ng of this i nterview?

Sure.

SPECIAL AGENT I <WXCl Also present for tr.e interview is Special Agent ~l ___

~K_,,_ci __

~~ who is also with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission Office of the Inspector General.

_ ¢,_~?J1_c_1 _ __,! please state you name for the FOR OFFICIAL US£ ONLY NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANO TRANSCRIBERS

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record.

<bX_7~_Ci __ __,!.

SPECIAL AGENT IWXC)

Please spell your first and last names.

L SPECIAL AGENT tt,l(7~Cl Please state yo*Jr du~y ti t l e and the address where you work.

loKTliC1 1o_x,_*c_, _____ _,j, and that's Two White Flint.

I believe it ' s 11555 Rockville p j ke, Rockvj lle, Maryland 20852.

SPECIAL AGENT The N:;clear

~egulatory Commission Office o f the Inspecto::: Gene:al is conducting an investigation, Case Number 13- 001.

You a:::e advi sed it is a crime to wi llfully and intentionally make material false statements to a

federal inve!5tigacor.

Title 10 United States Code Section 1001 applies.

At this ti me, I need to place you under oath or affirmation.

Which do you prefer?

(b)(1kCl Whatever.

SPECIAL AGENT I lbKl'ltCJ I We'll do oath.

Please stand a nd raise your r ight hand.

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,oidxCJ Okay.

SPECIAL AGENT I (1)N7Nc1 j Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give in the matter under investigation wi ll be the t r uth, the whole truth, and nothi ng but the truth, so help you God?

Yes.

SPECIAL AGENT I (b"ollNCI Okay.

j10N1xCJ!,

co;.il d you tel~ us how long you have been employed here at the NRC?

I think i~ 's six years in (l>_~_N_ci ___ ~l* So 2006 to now, 1~~*c1j.

And how long have you been in your current position?

'--""'(b""'Ji:..a'~""'

q __

_,! j..._ _____

(_0K_1;c_c1 _____ --'I

• SPECIAL AGENT I tl>M7kC)

Could you please explain what your current duties entail and how that re:!.ates to safety and security of facilities and information of the NRC?

1o~M!,

I am the I

{o<lNCI (1)K)XC!

I, and the responsibilities inclvde the physical protection of the facilities to ensure that they meet the r equirements of Management Directives and Executive Orders and Interagency Security Committee standards.

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As we explained i n prepara':ion of this interview, we wou:.d like to discuss a matt er that has come to our at tent.ion

nvolving Larry Criscior.e, where he has released info:-r.iat io:, to Cor.gress and :ion-governmental and private citizens that is 1.rnclassified but sensitive ir.forrr.ation.

Could you explain to us your involvement witt: this r.-,atter?

beca:ne aware of this situation fro~ yourself, l~--~-*1_~_1_~!*

You provided me a document some time ago wi tt: an err.ail and some supportir.g documents that basically state that CZ] -- I don't know how to pronounce his last name.

SPECIAL AGENT

~~xti Criscior.e?

Criscione.

Mr. Criscione had s e nt via email to T.embcrs of Congress and other governmeP.t officials infor:nation on an email.

Some o:

that. i nfcrrr.at.icn within t.he email conta.ined Official Use Only -- security-re~ated informa tion, Official Use On l y,

or sensitive intcrr.al information.

The email contained that information that was derived fron-. documents that were marked as s:.Jch, and the email was not unmarked.

So that's -- so I beccme aware of that.

So we took t he information -- wa:1t me to FOR Oft'ICIAL US! Olfl,Y NEAL R. GROSS COU~T REPORTERS ANO TRANSCRIBERS

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keep going?

So tha~ *s how I became aware of it.

SPECIAL AGENT r {l),l?~c, I What I'd like to do is capture a time1ine of activities f:om start to where we are now.

Right.

SPECIAL AGENT I <*mci I And please include notification from Larry Criscione's --

Management.

SPECIAL AGENT I **J17wc1 I -- management on how they t reated this incident.

So what r 'd like to capture from you is a timel ine of events of what has occurred, what notifica~ions have occurred, what is the normal process in responding to an incident like this, a report of a - -

Okay.

SPECIAL AGENT I <WJCCJ I disclosure of information that should be protected.

<b)(t)iC1 Okay.

So receive the information, a nd I think that was my first i:1itial notification tha t there was an incident that had occurred.

After that, sat down with my management and that's when l became aware that there is also an email that has been sent and that I was forwarded the email.

I don ' t know the timeframe.

And the email just basically FOR Of'fiCINi USE eMLY NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANO TRANSCRIBERS

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said, Look, thi s was tr.e email that was sent.

We bel ieve 1t con~ains Official Use On}y security-related information. "

So what we d : d is, as a matte~ of process, is we went ahead and I turned t.his over to.._l ___

1,_'(1_xc_1 __ _,j, who

. s\\

1.. _________ (l)_x,_,r._, ____

.....J),

and 11"~"'1 developed a -- l(bI\\C*Jlooked a t the informati.or..

reached out t o t he responsibl e manager.1ent official s, the branch c hief, and the directors, and had therr. fill out a Forrr. 183, which is a security incident.:.nfraction violation form, NRC f orm 183.

'!'~e form 183 itself, the manager -- I cion't remember the name of ~he manager who submir.ted the forrr. -- indicated t ha~ t h e indiv i d ua l who sent r.he email had sent an emai l with -- which contained Otficial Use Only secur ity-related in:ormat::.on and other types of informat ion that 1s :nternal to the NRC that shouldn't have been re leased puhlic ly, o r il s houldn't hove been released wit~out proper permission.

Anci they s':at ed that this is contrary -:o the SUNS! requirements and the Management Directives, which I dor.'t -- ! can't recall off the top of my head.

So we took that a:1d we deve l oped, as we normally do, a memorandum, and we -- 1n FOR GPPICIAL USE ONLY NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTE~S AND TRANSCRIBERS

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the memorand:.1m we identi fied that, you know, 0:1 this day we received notification that the following individual released a document to the person that was listed on the document to the fol lowing personnel that was contrary to the SUNSI r ules.

And t hen we indicated on the rr.emorand'.l!Tl that, you know, because the person - - because they failed to follow the SUNSI gui_delines and rules, the individual responsible must train -- must take the training -- the SUNS! guidance and tra i ni:19 course, basically look at it, make sure he understands the requirements to protect SUNS! inf ormation, which is sensitive unclassified non-safegua rds information, and then report back to ors indicating that he has completed that training and he understands th~ requirements.

And t hen, we are categorizing this as a securi ty i nc ident, because what we are in the process of doing -- normally, we would just say it's an infraction in accordance with Management Directive 12.1.

So we went ahead and called it a security incident.

l conc.1rred on the document, sent it to management, and it is with management right now.

And the reason i t's there is because we are calling it a security incident, b.1t there is no definition for "security FOR OPPICIAL OSE OlfLY NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTI:RS AHD TRANSCRIBERS

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incident" cur rent l y.

We did also, you know, before we developed the memorandum, we did notify CSIRT.

And l think we spoke with ~l ___

mx_.,,_q--~~ which is a rr.atter of process.

You know, i f we get something t hat has infonnat i on that has been released, we will talk to CSIRT and tell them that they need to redact the information.

And I believe that. CSIRT looked at the information.

They couldn ' t find anything which they thought at the time was information that needs to be pulled back.

SPECIAL AGENT 1Dx7,:r.,

Who is CSIRT?

4>X7J(C)

CSTRT is the Computer Security Inci dent Response Team.

They are the ones that usua l ly deal wi th PIT spil l s or classified spills, et cetera.

But I don't know that to be a fact.

I would have to look at my emails to figure out exactly what they said.

But. s o I tal ked to - -

I bel i eve I talked to

,DPwc, I bac k and forth, who is i n charge of that CSIRT program.

And we said, "Well, what we ar:e going to do is it looks l ike they failed to follow applicable SUNS!

gui del i nes.

We are going to issue an incident, security incident," which is, you

know, kind of like a n infraction, but t he reason -- okay.

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10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 22 23 24 ii li FOR O!'Pfem OSE ONLY 10 So I' ll just say the reason it -- the memo hasn't gone out, it has been co~ct.:rred on, even manage:nent has signed it.

The reason it hasr.' t gone out is because what we are trying to do is change the definitior.s of i~fracti~ns.

So what we are t rying to do is include a sect.:rity i r.cident, wJ-.ich a security incident is any

.rri t te

, po~icy ~r.at tt.e NRC has that would be considered a security incident.

It could include a computer security-related incident.

Ar.ci

then, we are t rying to separate ir.fractior.s and violations from an incident, because a~

infraction ano violation really only pertain tc classified informati on.

Somehow or another in our

~anageme nt uirectives we have said ar. ir.fraction i.s only -- an ir.fraction is all-encompassing.

Tt covers everything.

And the problem behind ~hat is ~ha~ it is very contusing.

And I know I 'm kind of getting off the topic here.

It's ve~y confusi~g bcc/3i;se d:..irir.g a

background investigation whe~ employees gc :or their five-year o r 10-year reir.vest:gation, o~e of the questions that are asked is, tave you had a~y security infractions?

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And if they had a PI: spi.!.l, then the -- you know, they are going :o say, "Yeah, : *ve !-lad three or fot.:r of them."

A~d so : he investigator is going to thin k, wow, this g:iy can' t protect cl assified information, beca use infractions a nd violatio:-.s only pertain to classified int c rmat:on.

So we t ried to -- what we are trying to do i s cha nge it to security i:,cident.

That way, peopl e don' t report you know, inappropriately report a security incident and a securi :y infraction.

So that ' s wr.a ~ we we r e trying to do.

So I guess going back to this, t hat's kind of where we ' re at.

We haven't --

don't know that we -- D:S has not made contact wi th tr.e individual.

We have only made co~tact with the management.

f the wacagement hasr.': rnade contact with the individua l and tol d h im not to send out any additio:1al information, that s h ou 1 d h ave beer. done.

But we - -

t o date we ~aven ' t rea ~hed ou: to the individ ual ourselve s.

Normally, we woi..: :d close i: by a ir.emo randum, and that ' s how -- we would

~et the ma:1ageme~t deal wi t.h the di scipl. ine of the individual.

Have you had similar infractions o r i ncidents l ike this occur?

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Yeah.

SPECIAL AGENT I ()*9xc> I And how were they handled?

And pl ease incl ude timel ines of --

I'll give you - - yeah, I'll give you a few different types.

We have let's just use a SUNSI spil 1.

So l et's just say somebody put SUNS l l et's --

somebody puts Official Use Only secur ity-related i nformat ion into ADAMS.

It I S inappropriately marked.

Information gets out to the public.

Once they identify t hat t hat has occurred, regardless of how it occurs, s ometimes they will notify us t hat, hey, somebody f rom the public contacted us and said that t her e is an OUO documen t in ADAMS.

So then what we do is we say, "Contact CSlRT and get the information redacted, scrubbed, removed."

So that is -- CSIRT' s job is to clean the spi 11.

Q;.)r j ob is to go ba ck in there and s ;,y, "Now you need t o submit to us a 183 and tell us how you are going to prevent -- tell us what occurred, tell us what you did for immediat e corrective measures, tell us what you' re doi ng f or long-t erm corrective measures, to prevent recurrence.

You know, tell us how you are going to fix the problem so it doesn 't happen again in the NEAl.. R. GROSS COURT Rf PORTERS ANO TRANSCR18ERS

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So o~ce we get that information, what we do is we develop a mel".lorandWTi, and then we send the memoranourn to the Di visio:i Director and we say, "Yoi.. had an i nc ident o ::::c-..i r t :1at contai:ied -- you know, i t involved

~he spL l of sensi tive unc;assified no:'1-Silfeguards information," and then we tel! them that, Your personnel are required to ta ke tr.is trai nir.g.

Once the training is compl eted, report back to ~s that yo~ have completed

he training and your peop:e understand the req'...:irements to protect this infor:natior.."

And t hen we 1ust -- that's how we trac k..it.

So that's how we close out t:'le memorandum.

so that's f or sur,;sr.

If we have an SGI spill --

SPECIAL AG£NT I ;l>IC'~C, Let's just stick with S:JNSI.

How ~onq -- at what point do they report back to you that the individuals completed the trair.ing and the matter is resolved?

It depends.

rt varies.

There is no set t i meline right now.

Basically, sometimes t ~e individuals have already ~ompleted the training before before we even issue them the

~emorandum, they have al~eady completed the training.

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mwn.c, A m~tter of days.

SPECIAL AGENT I tlJMJ~Cl Months?

Yeah.

A matter of -- sometimes it's a matter of days that they complete the training.

Sometimes it's a montr. or so before they get everybody to complete the training, because it could be more than one person, or it could include contractors.

SPECIAL AGENT I lh7)(C) I Let's focus -- because this involves -- this issue we are talking with Larry Cris cione, he is one individual.

Right.

SPECIAL AGENT Let's compare him - - let's compare apples to apples.

The last time a SUNS! -- unauthorized SUNS! release occurred, it was identified, properl y reported.

How did that pror.ess -- can you provide us an example?

Cl>K7ltCJ Yeah.

Just as described, we get the information, we tell them to contact CS!RT, CSIRT goes in t~ere and they say, "What is the document tit le?"

And t hen the y wi 11 call t he person and give them instructions on what to do, and then they will clean it, redact it from ADAMS, all of that stuff, get it out of FOR OFPICllL USE ONL'f NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANO TRANSCRIBERS

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As far as how they rea~h out to members of the public to say, "Yo:.i've got a docume::it that you shouldn't have," I don't know :hat -- l don't know what that process is.

I don't icnow that we !":ave a process for that.

Maybe we go with a "no comment" pol icy.

l don't know.

This is kind of an unknown :n our process.

But anyway, then after they have done tha:

piece, we turn around and say, "Okay.

We had an incident that occ1,;rred."

We send out the 183, because now we want to fir.d the details behind the ir.c:dent, who was responsib~e, who did it, how it occurred, and what did you do as soon as it occurred, and what is your lonq-terrr corrective measures.

The~, we wil l develop the memo.

And most of the time, i f it's j ust an individual, within a week, two, rr.aybe a r.10:ith, the i nd:.vidual completes the t r a in i.ng and t~ey report back to ~s that the tr~ining has beer.

completed.

Once again, in some cases, as soon as we reach out to the individuals they ~ave a l reody completed the t ra i ~ing, and they ~nderstand the requirements to protect the infoIT.'lation.

Ar.ct t he reasor. :hey know that is because FOR OFFICIAL OS£ ONLY NEAl R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AHO TAANSCRIBERS

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16 when we r each out to the rt1 a nd t a lk to them, we tell U*.etn up fror.t that, hey, we are going to be putting in our memo that you guys need to complete this training, so they do it before we even issue t he memo.

And as soon as we issue the memo, they'll respond back with a memo saying that we have completed the training.

It goes from Division Director to our Divi s i on Director.

So the timeline varies.

SPECIAL AGENT I R>xii,c, j But, in general, the majority of these incidents are r esolved within a week.

\\bX7 llCI I don' t know i f I can say that.

Within a month.

SPECIAL AGENT 1w,c:,

Within a month?

Yeah.

SPECI AL AGENT I tWJ(C) 1 Okay.

With these simil ar incidences, is t he individual involved in the i nadvertent spill ~r t he i nadvertent posting or the imp roper r elease of SONSI or ot.her inf o r mation, how soi:.m are t hey notified and i nterviewed by management?

Well, from our -- you know, we assume that they are contacted i mmediat ely, because we' re asking them the details of what occur red.

So, I

mean, the only way they s hould know what occurred is by going out t o the ind i vidual and saying, "How did this FOR Of'FICIAL USE Olft.Y NEALRGROSS COURT REPORTERS ANO TRANSCRl9fRS

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Now, i f t he y are just giving us -- if they are just sending us -- if they are fil l ing out the 183 sayi ng that, you k:1ow, as an example, '._I ___

,bx_11_1c_, _ __.I had a spill.

We haven't talked to him, but this is what we believe occurred," we are under the assumption that they are ta l king to the individual, because we don't actually reach out -- a lot of t imes we don 1 t reach out and talk to the person themselves.

We ta l k to management.

But we try to actually talk to the individual themselves, and I believe in this case we might have reached out and talked t o Mr. -- the gentlema n himself.

r would have to ask~'---~K_,~_, __ _,I*

Okay.

I take that back.

No, we reach out and talk to ~he individual.

We always reach out and talk to the individual themselves, and t hen they li;now t.hat t hey -- when they Leport it, t_hey 've g ot to go through management.

So I

don't know when that communication occurred.

SPECIAL AGENT n,1(7~c, I Okay.

I'd have to ask! (b~1,c, I-SPECIAL AGENT I 1ni1m Would lt be possible to get a copy of that report t hat was f iled --

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SPECIAL AGENT, *W~CJ I on this incident ?

SPECIAL AGENT tb~r~c, J Okay.

The 183?

SPECIAL AGE:NT I rw xti I The 183.

lll~l)(C)

And the memo?

SPECIAL AGENT I 1*11xc, I Yes.

11>1C1~c1 Okay.

Yeah.

SPECIAL AGENT I 11>1(1xc1 I So where is your division at today on issuing the memo to the Office Director of Research regarding this September r e ~ease ?

Yeah.

Okay.

September.

The memo has been signed.

It has been s ~gned for quite some t ime.

What they were waiting o~ is for me to get t he definition of infractions changed.

So I have an announcement up wi th ADM - - or our front of:ice saying that we would like to ch~nge the definitions to security i ncide nt, security i nf raction, and security violation, but that needs to be signed out by the front office and concurred on by -- i t might be even I rwxc, I, So that I s what we are trying to do is we are t r ying to put these incidents i n the right g roup.

We didn't want ~o have this one the same as a c~assified FOR Of'PICllL USE OlfL!'

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That 's why we were t rying to separate them out.

So as s oon as that goes throuqh, then we are go ing to issue -- we've got a stack about this high that we are going to issue all at the same time for security incidents.

SPECIAL AGENT Okay.

But no timeframe.

You don't know when that will occur?

I don't.

concurrence.

SPECIAL AGENT ll>ll7XCJ Okay.

time to go over the Management Directive Uh-huh.

SPECIAL AGENT I 11>tnc, I 12-1.

!b"1l1Cl Right.

It's in I -:ook some SPtCIAL AGENT NRC f'ac il it ies Security Program.

Uh-huh.

SPECIAL AGF.:NT I a,x*xci I Ar.d some port ions in there regarding security infractions and program requirements for an initial security orier.tation for new assigned employees, some recurring training.

The definition of a r. infraction, as you have stated, "There:ore, an infraction may include an actual or suspected compromise of classi:ied i~:ormation or FOR OPPICild. USE OMLr NEAL R. GROSS C~T REPORTERS,\\Nt) TRANSCRIBERS

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20 sensitive ur.c:assified information."

Right.

Of which we are discussi~g abo~t Larry Criscione.

Ur.-huh.

SPECIAi.

AGENT I tbfl;(Cl I There is

.:i requi rement r egardi ng determination of act i on regarding NRC employees, t hat the office or division di rector s at headquarters shal l det ermine whether an infraction com.~itted by the NRC employees requires disciplinary or adverse action.

~h-huh.

SPECIAL AGENT j,wxc1 I With regards to firs~

infract i ons, headq*Jarters employee -- an i ntervi ew shall be conducted by t he di rector, the deputy director, or assistar.t di rector of the err.ployee' s office or di vision.

ls t hat i n any way coord~nated with your off~ce or --

No.

SPECIAL AGENT And what is the normal timef~ame on these?

Are you involved in this process at al l?

You' re ta ik i r.g abou'.:, is this a!ter the i nfraction has been issued, or is t~is pr~or to?

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!l>V7liCi Okay.

So your notice -- they are waiting on notice from your office.

And then, if --

SPECIAL AGENT f.,,i/ixc;i I That would be a proper reporting of all of the facts.

n,imc, And there is some confusion in the reporting.

This is my assumption is - - and that's why we need to -- we ' re trying to clean this up, is what is happening is -- well, first o f all, with the reporting of i nfractions what we identified is a SUNSI spill, you could have t wo things occur.

Well, a number of things occJr.

You cou;d have t he i ndividual report it to -- you could have the office r eport it to the IG, or the y could report it to NSIR, or t hey could report it to DFS, or they could report it to CSIRT.

~nd then, eventually -- or they could report - - or t hey don' t repor t it. And then, event ua 11 y, it is s uppo sed to come back to Df'S, 50 we can begin t.he p r ocess of saying, okay, what happened?

But at the same t ime, it also needs to be - - we ' ve got to make s ure that :t's being c l eaned by CSIRT, computer security off ice.

So what happens in tr.ose cases is when they report it t o the IG, we have no idea tr.at there is an inci dent that occurred unless the FOR OPPICIAL USE etff.Y NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AHO TAANSCRISERS

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22 lG is report ing it to us.

If they report i t to NS!R, you know, ~here could be a situation where NSIR makes the determination, "Well, we don't think it was a spill."

So they say nothing occu=red, and then nothing happens on the back end.

So what we're trying to say -- and that's the process we are trying to get into is this repo=ting of incidents -- that everything comes in.

Everything comes in, and it either goes -- i t e \\ ther goes to us or CSIRT, but us and CS!RT are talking to each other.

That way, we are reporting and we are centralizing all of the incidents that occur, and then we are determining what actions need to occur.

If it's a spil l, it gets cleaned by CSIRT and it gets the inf raction process, the 183 p=ocess, by us.

And then, if we identify that there is some suspected wrongdoi~g, ~hen we can do -- t hen we can do a referral.

But right now a referral is kind of -- we are still working that process out, because we don't exactly know when we should refer an incident of this type of nature.

But I think right now'-l ___

<<>_x,_Mc_i __

_,! is j'JSt sending you guys everything.

Every incident that comes FOR GPPICIAL USB Olft..'l NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANO TRANSCRIBERS

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23 i:1 l(tl(7\\ciljust cc ' s the IG, jus!: so you guys are looking ai::

these i te:ns.

i3U!. as far as when management gets involved, they should be involved as soor: as the incident occu rs.

6asically, you have a SUNS! spill occur, the first thing that t hey s~ould do is contact their managc~ent, and concur~ently they should be not:fying OFS o r CSIRT that we had a sp.: 11, or that they had a spill.

And the n, management should !:urn around and say, "Okay.

If it went oi..t to the public, then you need to follow Management Directive" -- I think it 's MD 3.4 or somethi ng Eke that --

that discusses how your

~emo randum r.eeds to describe what

~appe~ed, what corrective act.:ons you are taking.

But aside fro~ that, we are still sending out the 183 saying, "Hey, tell us what els~ happened.~

But t.hc 1!'.ar.agement should a l ways be involved from the front end to clear:.:. t, to correct it, and implernent long-term corrective measures.

And I thought that's what happened ir: this case.

I thought they were involved the wr,ole t 1 me.

Well, in the

~nstances that you are describi ng, whe~ yo~ refer to a SUNS] spill, that is mo~e of an inadvertent release, an inadvertent processing of i:1formation, and it gets FOR OPPICIAI, ~

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~osted publicly where it shouldn't have.

Ri ght.

SPECIAL AGENT I fl>x7xci I This instance, it ' s clear that Mr. Criscione knew he was disclosing intern.:il docu~ent s to members that shouldn ' t have --

Right.

SPECIAL AGENT I ff>)(7-Cl I -- access to it.

So this is an i nt entional disclosure.

Does it alarm yo u t hat Larry C:-iscione hasn't been talked to by his management?

(b~7~CI Yeah.

It kind of does.

I thought that he was.

I thought this was already -- that they had been ta~king to him, but I guess r*~ wrong.

I guess they haven't t alked to him.

I mean, that ' s what it seems l i ke.

But I thought they had been talking tc him.

I thought he was aware of what he did and what he did was wrong.

We haven't reached out to him, like I said, and not that I ' m aware - - I haven't said, "What you did is wrong.

Don't do it anymore."

We don't inC!.Ude ourselves in the disci plinary action of the e~ployees.

We just follow the spill and say SPECI AL AGENT o,~7KCJ You are no: part of the administ~a t ive --

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SPECIAL AGEl'\\T fb*7x<:1 I -- chain Right.

SPECIAL AGENT I (b~T*.CI with most employees, ~niess t ~ey fa:l within your branch.

Right.

That's right.

SPECIAL AGENT So that responsibility falls Back to their management.

S PECIAL AGENT On lha l the management of the individua:

That's correct.

SPECIAL AGENT fbX7,::;,

involved in an 1ncident.

Yeah.

Our i cb is to ident i:y that an incident occur~ed, trac~ it, identity what corrective measures have beer. implemented, and then wr:le a w.e~o and ~eep i t, mai~tain the r ecords.

Their responsibility i s to ide~tify that, okay, yeah, we had an incident, we have corrected it, we have disciplined

he er:ipl oyee, however they want to ciiscip:.1 nc the emp:oyee in accorda~ce with their process.

We have reported i t to t he IG beca~se we think it ' s wiilft;l, as an exarr.p:.e.

And t her., we -- yoi; kr.ow, we wili close it FOR OF!'ICUL USE om.Y NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND ffiANSCRll!ERS

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But as far as our process, you know, we -- our process continues.

Whether it's willful or not, our process i s goi ng to contir.ue.

To close that, we are just going to say, "You had an incident.

We ider.tified it.

You put corrective meas~res in place.

We agree with the corrective measures," or "we don't agree wi th the corrective measures. "

Issue the memorandum, make sure t hat they follow up with us to close out the issue.

But if t here was an IG thing going concurrently wi th that, we wouldn*t interfere with that.

We would~'t -- obviously, we wouldn't get involved in that.

We would just con:inue with our process.

And that is just to try and stay on track with - - in our lane, so to speak.

I don't know i f I answered the question or not.

SPECIAL AGENT lb)ll}IC, So because of the definition change from incident to infraction, that has delayed the official notification to La~ry Criscione ' s management of t his i ncident?

jb)(7~CJ Well, it' S SPECIAL AGENT I

mean, they NEAL R. GROSS COUl{T REPORTERS ANO TRANSCRISERS

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They have r eported i t. to :.is.

They know that they have an issue.

They have report ed it to us.

We just haven't closed out our ~emoranda.

SPECIAL AGENT I 1*K1~c, I But :he process to indicate to them that actions are required, that off i ci al document hasn ' t Hasn ' t been out.

SPECIAL AGENT I a,x,Kc, I -- be en received That ' s correct.

SPECIAL AGENT I 11>.(t~C)

- - by Research yet.

Net an offi ci al notifi cation, no.

We are still sitting on that.

SPECIAL AGENT I 11>lf711.C* I Okay.

Agent! 11>~1,;;, j?

SPECIAL AGENT I !b)(lllC) j:

Jus t ct couple things. l11>lf7~*1, how many instances would yo~ say - - and I guess we will go kind cf broad here -- how many i nstances of these 'kind of behaviors --

s;:>ills, Pil, SUNSI,

i nt entional, accidental, whatever -- do you see per year,

~ould you est i ma te?

ll>,<1)fCl around 45 to 50.

I wou l d say about roughly And I would say thai: about 4 6 percent because we actually had the s t ats for a while -- about 46 percent involve the mishandling of FOR OPFICIAL use ONLY NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANO TR.ANSCRlllERS

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28 classified information, and I would say about 30 percent involve the mishandling the release of SUNS:

• information.

The ot her ones are like safeguards and unescorted access, stuff l ike that.

SPECIAL AGENT /,wxc; J How does that compare with other agencies in t he Federal Government?

Are we higher, lower, same?

that we are I don* t know.

My concern is you know, my concern right now is the classified spills. That's what we are tryi ng to reduce.

We are actually going through -- 1 've got a team together trying to put a plan together to try and see if we can educate employees on what i s classified, how to protect it, how t o repo!'t, disclose, you know, inadvertent release, or whatever, disclosure.

SPECIAL AGENT I 1t>H1JCll j:

And when was this clarification of the process started?

For the report i ng of infractions o r the i nfractions definitions change?

SPECIAL AGENT I l'>K1xci ):

Both.

So t here was an lG report that was issued to NSIR some time ago with a finding on centralizing ~he reporting of SG~ information.

So we started working with NSIR on that probably about two FOR ewtelti.-tJft--etft.Y N.EAlRGROSS COURT Rf PORTERS AHO TRANSCRIBERS

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FOR OftICI:lcL USE ONLY 29 months ago.

About t wo months ago, we started wor king with NS!R, rr,aybe t hree *months -- started worlcing with NSlR and we said that the reporting needs to be centralized, and it needs to quit going to al l of these different. offi.ces, i t needs to go to us or CSIRT, and cis or CS!R~ stii l are going t o be able ~o see everything, so we can ~ake sure tha t we ar e capturing a 11 of the data coming in, s o we ca~ stay wi:hin a timefra~e.

So probably a bout t hree months ago we star:ed :his process.

They in1tially sent up a

memorandum to t he IG stating that, "Hey, we a re goinq t o close this out, because we just believe you should report au SG, inf ractions to DFS."

IG came baci< and said, "No, you've got to have a centralized reporting process. "

So then we got together -- ~SIR, DFS, CSO, O!S -- we al l got together and said, "Okay.

How are we going to fix t his?"

So that ' s when we started looking

.:1c, okay, we needed a centra lizeo reportir.~ process,.:ind we a~e going t o do it j n this fashion.

So we got this, you know, kind of a wo rking gi:-oup, a'.ld we have been working towards this, ar.d now we have a plan.

Part of that plan included char.ging t he defini tions of infract:ons, because it was clear to us that peop!e a re report.ir.g one mass -- yoi; kr.ow, it doesn' L FOR OPf'ICUd. -esE--Olff.Y NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPOR'TERS ANO TRANSCRIBERS

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30 matter if, you kr.ow, you left your computer unlocked or you have released Top Secret informatio~.

It was considered a~ in~ractior., so we said, "We've got to separate these i nto th~ bins they are supposed to be in, because we can' t tra(.'.i<., you know, how tr.any of what do we have."

And we haven* t even began to talk about what is willful, what is not "lolillful.

We haven't even looked at, you know, as far as if the -- if an individual in this case -- like in this case, if he sent something out knowing that he cut and posted, you know, Official Use Only security-related information, put it into this document, what does that mean to i.;s?

What are we supposed to do with i t ?

So we haven't even looked at that.

Basically, what we're doing is iooking at the process saying, "How do we ge;; the information first?

How d o we get. the information?

How do we fix this? "

So that's where we were, and that's the process that we are in right now, so we have ider.ti fied the process of reporting, which we thi nk i s a good, solid p~ocess.

It is al~ automated, to include telephone and hotline.

And then, we -- the next step was change the definition of infractions, which we started that before FOR O!flCIAf. tfSE ONLY NEALRGROSS COURT RE.PORTERS ANO TAANSCRISERS

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And t hen, of course, th i.s spill came out.

But we have already started that. It's up at our f,ont office for concurrence.

The next thing is going to be sending ou:

a yellow announcement. to all employees saying -- and thi s is how you now report al 1 infractions, whether it's security -- any security event, security incident, which is any wri t t en policy t hat the NRC has concerning security, which this would concern security, or any event that invol ves the protection or the mishandling of c lassified information, you

know, would be an infraction, such as, you know, mishandling Secreto~

Confidential docu~ents, leaving a safe open, leaving a vault door open.

And then, the last one is what we are trying to do is

identify, okay, a

viola::.ion is the intentional -- you know, the intentional distribution or s omethi ng of classi f ied information, which will lead to a

potent ia l disclosure of that i nforrr.ation.

Par~icu1arly, ~e a r e t a lking about Secret, Corifidential, and -- arid then it also says that any mishandling of Top Secret infor~ation or SCI infor~ation or special access program would be a violation.

So we would put it in that group down t here.

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SPECIAL AGENT I n,**r~c, !:

Do you know how close you are t o t he comp l etion of al l of that ?

(bl{7J(t; We've got it all written out.

Like I said, the infractions memo is sit ting on the desk of our fron t off ice up at ADM.

And the rest of the process, what it is waiting on, before we issue a yellow announcement, is that we a r e able to -- we are fixing the phone lines.

Right now, it i s going to be a system where you call in.

You wi ll have a hot line where you can call i n and Opt ion 1 wi ll say, "To report a physical s ecurit y

incident, press

l.

To r eport a

computer security-related i ncident, press 2."

And then, that way it wi l l send you - - for two, it will take you :o CSIRT.

r o r one, it wil l take you to a DfS repre~entative.

Or t he front page of the intranet, what we* re looking a t is putti ng kind of a tab there that says, "Repo r t a securi ty event. "

So the employee could click on that and it will pop up with, "To report a physical securit y event o r a computer securi ty, you click here,"

and it will stil l go to t he responsible office.

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SPECIAL AGENT I '"~'~) i:

You had mentioned to us that s ome of the policy -- and I g~ess that is what the co.::-rec:ior.s and the changes are going to address, but it is r.ot clear Right.

SPECIAL AGENT! '"*'Kc, j:

-- exactly what some of the defi r.itions might be, or even, I take it, maybe some o f the procedures Righ:.

SPECIAL AG::!'lT I ;oi,ic, j:

-- of how to do t his.

So i f it's not clear to DfS, how confusing do you think

t might be to non-DFS divisior.s within the NRC?

No, I agree.

Tr.at' s why we're tryi ng t o resolve it.

SPECIAL AGENT I **~11.c,

~

Okay.

r think it ' s confusing.

And J L's in di fferent areas.

Li ke the SUNS! guidance documents arc buried withi n the OIS webpage.

So if you needed t o look a t wr.at are the SUNS1 requirements, you needed to go to - - you needed to type in SUNS I, first of all, inside the i nternet address, then go to the :>IS where it says SJNSI requirements, and then click on the tab, and then you ' d pop up wit h the -- it 's a spreadsheet that FOR. OPPICIAL USB -&lffd' NEAl R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANO TRANSCRIBERS

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It's all covered in that document.

So that's the other thing we're trying to do is we're trying to hotlink -- in our a~nouncement, we' re trying to hot l ir:k all of those items in there, so peopl e wi ll say, oh, SUNSI requirements, you click there.

SGl requirements, it wi l ! have 10 CFR 7 3. 22 on the link.

You just click there, anc i t will show you what are the requirements to protect SGI.

SPE:CIAL AGEN'T' I l'Xl~Ci I:

Do you happen to know -- and if you are able t o answer this, it would be great -- i f there 1s a procedu re built in for notifying either the IG or OGC of any type of incident thdt may come to yo~ in this new system?

That i s -- what we are trying

~o do is build that int o -- because I know the~e is o requirement to notify :t:e IG of events, and in some cases notify OI for l icensee events.

What we are trying to do is, in the reporti ng there will be a database, and in the process there is going to be a section that is ca;led a FOR OPPICIM. USI OlfL'f NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS

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3S referral, and t hat referral wi l l be the notification to rG or like the Protect ive Threat Advisory Team or, once this Executi ve Order cones o~t, the Nationa~ Insider Threat Task force.

The re i s going to be a referral to this group.

SPE:CrAL AGENT 11:;;*~C)

~

But that's not an automat lc f unct i on.

That i s something that - -

(1J):1wc, That 's a manua i ~-

SPEC IA::.. AGENT! !lithe, l: -- DFS would have to decide whether o::.- no t it wo:Jld go to orG, OI, OGC, whoever.

Right.

SPECIAL AGENT

,w.n j:

Okay.

And that's t he threshold we*ve got to play with is, what are we supposed to r eport?

What are we not?

I mean --

SPECIAL AGF.NT I,..,.q j:

Right.

- - we can overwhelm you w.i t h everything, or we can say, "~ou know what? This looks l i ke it's a clear, you know -- it was deliberate. "

But of cou:se, you know, you guys are the only ones that really make that determinati on.

All we can do is, "We thinic it is, " yo,; know, so -- ~mless you guys have access to j ust everyt r.ing and you can just screen everything as FOR OP'PICIAL USB---eN!JY NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANO TRANSCRIBERS

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!I I i 36 i t's corning i n.

I t 's a lot of information.

Well, that is probabl y something foe some future di scussions.

Right.

SPECIAL AGENT I,.,,~c;

~

Agent

<Wxt>

SPEClAL AGENT

!:w,.-c,~ has Larry Crisc:o~e had pr-evious securi ty infractions or incidents?

1 don ' t know.

I would have to check.

ls t hat queriable in your tracking of 183s?

It is.

SPECI AL AG!::NT I "'-'~~*

Okay.

R>~ll!CI

! t i s not so m*Jch 183s.

It's we used to put it ir. !PSS, so we put it in the IPSS, and that's attached t o t~e i r security !ile.

And then, any memora ndum t hat went out t o di vi sion as a r esult of -- yo~ know, woul d go i r.to his f i le, as an example, his security file.

And I M >i;:i I would hold t~at.

SPEC I AL AGENT I ltlITTCJ I Okay.

Is that sometr.ing yo~ can fol!ow up on, or should I foll ow up with No, we c3n follow up on i~.

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?1 22 23 37 S?ECIAL AGEN7 (1)-"'m All right.

So you want a copy of the memo and how ~any infractions.

S?ECIAL AG~NT Or any pieViOUS copies of those if they were docunented.

Okay.

All right.

SPECIAL AGENT I w:-c, I 11.*e11, in summary you have -- I t~ink you have given us an overview of how the facilities sec~r~ty progra~ works with regard to reporti ng incidents like this, and you explained the delay of why his management in Research hasn't received an official Notification.

SPECIAL AGENT I lb;rw:., I -- notification.

Is there something we haven't tal iced about that you feel is important tr.at wo~ld help us resolve this matter with Larry Cr.jscione?

! tr.ink we have pretty much cove~ed everything.

SPECIA:. AGENT itiin.c, Yeah.

SPECIAL AGENT ICXl~C, j:

l have -:1othing further.

SPECIAL AGENT I ()~7~C1 With t.hat being said, FOR OPPICUd. USZ ONLY NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANO TRANSCRIBERS

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9 JO 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 1 9 20 2i 22 23 24 FOR OPFICDd. US!! -elftiY 38 I' l l move to close :he in:erview.

Okay.

SPECIAL AGSNT I (l)K'llCJ I With respec:: to the testimony tha: you have provided d~ring this interview, do you need to make ar.y changes er clarify any part cf your-testimony?

I don't think so.

SPE:C!AL AGENT I ~.iw-.:, I Okay.

Yo'.l are reminded that this is an ongoing investigat ion, and the questions tha t r.avc been asked, your responses to those questions, and any informat ion your.ave learned as a result of this interview a re cor:sidered co:-it.:.dential and sensiti ve information and should not be disclosed to anyone el se, other ~ha~ a need to know, such as OGC, or the proper processing of thi s security infraction matter.

Okay.

SP£C1AL AGENT I "'~'*CJ I Do you a c.: lmowl edge this and agree to maintain confident.:.ality?

interv i ew.

I do.

SPECIA!., AGENT I ce~1xc1 I

':"his co:icludes the

~he ~ime is 10 :17 a.m., and the date is October 24, 2012.

(Whereupor., at 10: 17 a. rr.., '::he interv iew was ccncluded.)

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FOIA/PA NO:

2014-0327 RECORDS BEING WITHHELD IN THEIR ENTIRETY The following types of infonnation are being withheld:

Ex. 1

Records properly classified pursuant to Executive Order 13526 (Est pages_)

Ex. 2:ORecords regarding persoMel rules and/or human capital administration (Est. pages_J Ex. 3:Olnformation about the design, manufacture, or utilization of nuclear weapons (Est. pages_)

OJnfonnation about the protection or security of reactors and nuclear materials (Est. pages_J D:ontractor proposals not incorporated into a final contract with the NRC (Est. pages_J Dother --------------------

Ex. 4:OProprietary infonnation provided by a submitter to the NRC (Esl. pages__)

OOther ___________________ _

Ex. 5:ODraft documents (D.P. Privilege) (Est. pages_J Q:orrespondence deliberating a proposed action (D.P. Privilege) (Est. pages_)

CJRecords prepared by counsel in anticipation of litigation (A.W.P. Privilege) (Est. pages_J Privileged communications between counsel and a client (A.C. Privilege) (Est. pages__)

O0ther ___________________ _

Ex. 6:OAgency employee PH, including SSN, contact information, birthdates, etc. (Est. pages_J Ofhird party PU, including names, phone numbers, or other persona) infonnation (Est. pages__)

Ex. 7(A):OCopies of ongoing investigation case files, exhibits, notes, R0I's, etc. (Est. pages_)

Records that reference or are related to a separate ongoing investigation(s) (Est. pages_)

Ex. 7(C):OSpecial Agent or other law enforcement PU (Est. pages__)

OPII of third parties referenced in records compiled for law enforcement purposes (Est. pages_)

Ex. 7(0):OWitnesses' and Allegers' PII in Jaw enforcement records (Est. pages_)

Confidential Infonnant or law enforcement information provided by other entity (Est. pages_)

Ex. 7(E):

• Law Enforcement Technique/Procedure used for criminal investigations (Est. pages 160)

OTechnique or procedure used for security or prevention of criminal activity (Est. pages _J Ex. 7(F): D Jnfonnation that could aid a terrorist or compromise security (Est. pages_)

• Description of Records I. Forensic Analysis of Computer 02/21/2013 160 pages

S:Qfl 8FFl8M: Y!iE et*W 1

UNITED ST ATES OF AMERICA 2

NUCUAR REGUlATORY COMMISSION 3

4 OFFICE Of THE INSPECTOR GEr-tERAL 5

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x 6

IN THE MATTER OF:

7 INTERVIEW OF OIG Ca~ No.

8 13-001 9

(CLOSED) 10 11 12 November 29, 2012 13 14 OHS Office Building lS 24Sl Crystal City Drive 16 I Arlington, Virginia II I

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The above-entitled interview was conducted at 9:06 a.m.

BEFORE:

Special Asentl._ ___

,._x1_x,_, __

of:

Office of the Inspector General U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 11555 Rockville Pike Rockville, Maryland 20852 PROCEEDINGS 9:06a.m.

SPECIAl AGENT I 1t>K7KC1 I This is an officiat Office of the Inspector General investigation and the interview Is being conducted under the authority of the Inspector General Act.

Today's date is November 29, 2012 and the time is 9:06 a.m.

My name Is j

~*1xc1 J and I'm a Special Agent/Criminal Investigator with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Office of the Inspector General.

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This is a recorded intetview of I t1>~7xci

!being conducted at DHS Office Building in Crystal City OriVe, 2451 Crystal City Drive, Virginia.

I *~~;i L do you understand and consent to the recording of this interview?

Yes.

SPECIALAGENTI lb:mc, I Please state your name for the record.

My fu!1 name is._l ___

11>_~_*x_c, __ __.

SPECIAL AGENT! to-1~c! I Please spell your first and la~ name.

!b~7J<C>

I First name is spelled I

,wMc, Last name is spelled {

(OX'l!C,

~

SPECIAL AGENT I *wxc> I Please state your duty position, I'm L! _______

lb_~_,,_c1 ______

.....1 SPEOAL AGENT I lb~'XC> I And the address where you work.

rumc, I 2451 Crystal Drive, Arlington, Virginia.

SPECIAL AGENT ~

The Nuclear RegulatO/)' Commission Office of the Inspector General is conducting an Investigation. Case No.13-001. This interview will also be used for two other investigations.

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~

you are also advised that it is crime to wUlfully and intentionally make material false statements to a Federal investigator.

Title 18 United States Code Section 1001 applies.

At this time, I need to place you under oath or affirmation.

Which do you prefer?

Under oath is fine.

SPECIAL AGENT I c,,-.nc, I Okay.

Please stand and raise your right hand. Oo you solemnly swear the testimMy you're about to give in the matter under investigation will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?

ldo.

SPECIAL AGENT I (bi(lwc, I Dhow long have you worked with the Department of Homeland Security?

<*,1xc1 j Since its inception basically, 2002.

I was with FEMA that got brought into OHS. 5o technically from the very beginning.

SPECIAL AGENT I (l)x1xc1 I And what are your current duties and res.ponsibilities and how does that interface with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission?

Current duties, I'm the1..! ___

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s responsible for in helping the private sector enhance the security and resiliency of the private sector critical infrastructure.

With regard to the NRC, that means working with them on the nuclear sector which is one of the 18 sectors defined in the National Infrastructure Protection Plan and in the HSPD-7 which is the governing document. So we work.

with the NRC on such things as security and resilience of commercial nuclear power plants, sources of radioactive material, transportation and disposal of material and other types of issues associated with the nuclear sector.

SPECIAL AGENT I,w~q I How long have you been in your current position?

Current position since basically January of *07.

SPECIAL AGENT I ~J!jc, f As I mentioned, in preparation of this interview, we understand you coordinated with the Nutlear Regulatory Commission regarding the upstream dam failure report.

Could you please describe your involvement and communications with the NRC: regarding preparation ofthat report?

~.-!1>""'X1..:;Xc-'-'1 _ _,I Wen, we were app<oached and asked to review the report with regard to sensitivity of the information contained in the report.

So we weren't involved in the drafting and in the technical aspects of it, but just reviewed the data from the standpoint of rs there any information in tnere that we would not f8R 8FFIEMt t:,§f 8NI!¥ NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPOfU~RS ANO TAANSCR18EP.S

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want released to the general public or made available on the general public on a publicly-facing website.

One of the sectors in addition to the nuclear sector that I'm responsible for is the dams sector.

SO I have dams expertise, if you will, on the staff in the way of engineers and security specialists and things like that.

SO I believe it was I (01(7XCi I (Phonetic) - I believe it wase[}hat approached us about taking a 100.k at that material and since we have this dams expertise and we work closely with the dams sector as well to see what material, if any, in there we would consider sensitive and therefore should be withheld from general release.

SPECIAL AGENT I 1bXIMC* I When dld this ** What was the time frame that this occurred?

lb.iii, CJ I I believe it started *- The summer of 2011 is what I tend to remember.

I'd have to actually - I need more specifics. I could go back into my flies maybe and take a look. And I could also talk to I

!,b~*~c1

)who was my I c*x1xc, ! at the time for the dam!> activities. CZ]and, worked together on thi~ request that they made.

SPECIAl AGENT! ~Kixci j ~ame again please?

IOXIXC)

It's I 1cx7xCJ I and the last SPECIAl AGENT~ And~uty title?

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is a I lbx1xc1 J of.. I want to get the right name of the! **K'kc.; !foryou. Yes~'-______

10_)(1_~c_, _____ _.

SPECIAL AGENT I coxr.c1 I As a part of the review, how did that **

Can you describe that in more detail? Were there written communications back and forth?

And what w~ the final** how was that res.olved?

i.....-.::.,;;;;'!lc.:;.l<C;.;.1 _ _,I There were email communications baclc and forth. They actually sent us a copy of the report(,.~1xCJ ! and t both looked at It and then based on I lbmc1 jrecommendations we then had phone conversations with them as well about which material we would not want released and basically that's what we did. We said this i5 the material tl,at you should probably hold back..

And it wasn't - There might have been an email follow-up. I'd have to do a search in my records and I could do that if you'd like.

But we did not suggest holding back much information.

I think there was one table in particular that we recommended be held back.

SPECIAL AGENT I.,~7xc, I t would like to ask you for any wrinen documents or emails that you have regardinB what information should be withheld.

(b)(1J(Cj Okay. It will take me probably a few days to pull that together.

SPECIALAGENTi "*1XC1 j No problem.

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If that's okay.

~ecause of my schedule, l'N be glad to go back and do that.

SPECIAL AGENT I D~111C1 I Okay.

Thank you.

Sure.

SPECIAL AGENT 1 11>~1*E.i I Were any discussions -- Did any of the discussions occur regarding protection of critical infrastructure information?

PCII?

SPECIAL AGENT! 1>x1Jc1 I Yes.

Well, what we did is when! (w~c, land I loolced

rt this we looked at the classification guide that we have in the j.._ ___

lll_x,_xc_, __

ibx1xq Jand if it was information that we had generated how we would classify it which addresses the PCII to some degree. So our thoughts did e110l11e around PCll and what that would mean with regard to th~ panicul.1r document.

But it wasn't ** I'd have to go back and get with! 1bXl~t:*, Jbecause there is a s.ection in our classification guide that addresses, I'm prenv sure, dams information.

And we can provide you a copy of that classification guide if that would be helpful.

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SPECIAL AGENT I tb***ci I I think what this come down to is did OHS communicate to the NRC that information should be protected under critical infrastructure information tuidelines.

111xikc1 I I don't think we got to that level and the rea$0n I say that Is POI is usually used by - done as a request from the private sector when they submit information to us.

They would say, "This is lnfonnatlon that we do not want made available to anybody else. It's for your use and your use only." And they requested that ~

protect it as PCll.

So in this situation since this Is a repart generated by the NRC it really doesn't flt in. And I'm not a PCII expert.

I'm trained in it. So I have access to that kind of information.

But it didn't really flt the bHI of something coming directly from the private sector, if you will, c.oncernlng their vulnerabilities and weaknesses and things like that.

So wMe we look at our classifiution guide and we thought about how PCII might look at It that we really didn't treat it as PCII. And I did not make any recommendations I'm pretty sure based on protectinS It as PCU.

SPECIAL AGENT ~

I'm familiar witn the acronym CII.

What is the P?

Protection?

Protected Critical Infrastructure Information.

SPECIAL AGENTI 11>x7~ci I Okay. Protected.

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9 10 11 12 13 14 lS 16 17 18 19 20 21 FSR e,.. e,At tlM etfli 10 a,vxc, I Yes, we actually have a program and then I think it was in the original Homeland SecuritV, After 2002, I think there was an opportunity for protecting such Information. And then thev developed a program around that. So when we deal with the private sector whether it's a dam owner or operator or even a nuclear power plant owner or operator and commercial, any one or those sectors, if they in the course of us working with them to identify weaknesses, vulnerabilities and then ways to mitigate them and protect them, they could submit that information to us.

And it would be protected from FOIA requests and discoverv requests and things like that.

And I can get you information on that program if you'd like if that would be helpful.

SPECIAL AGENT I <t~1Kci I I think for this effort to lmow e>1actly what was recommended to the NRC and to the level of which that protection should be considered is more important.

to)(l).'CI Right.

Ard if I remember right and I think it would be good for you to talk toj 11>ir1xc1 pbout this as well, in mv remembrance since we didn't generate the information, we just said, "Okay.

You generated the information. It's vour report. Protect it as vou see fit."

But this is the one table.

And if I iiw the report I thinlc I could pick out the table.

It's been a while. It's been at least a year since I've looked at this stuff. I covld identify what the material was that we recommended be protected.

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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 f8ft 8fFl@IM WSE OHW 11 And I think it had to do with the arrival times of flooding information should a flood happen. Basically wlttl that upstream dam, the dtsta~

downstream, how fast the water wolUd get there and how much, I think it dealt with the table that had that kind of information in It.

But most of our corwer-.ations were through the telephone and contact throu,ih email. I do not think we wrote a - I'm pretty sure we did not write any kind of a formal 1etteror anyth4ng lili:e that.

SPECIAL AGENT [Efil) Okay. l._ __

0_~_

1i_c, _ __,I here locally.

>K,.c, j ~office is on this floor, yes.

SPECIAL AGENT { 11>~1,c.1 I Okay.

I can give you ~ntact information if you'd iike.

S~ECIAL AGENT tEfill Okay. I'll collect that at the erld of the interview.

SPECIAL AGENT l cw.cc, j And when did this coordination piece -

ts it ongoing now? Or it started in the summer of 2011.

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) I believe it started in the summer of last summer.

And it went over a penod of about a few months if \\ remembef right But I had it -

Other than hearing about the concerns with how material was protected and this investigation of these issues, I haven't been Involved. I just heard about that over the last several months. But we have not been actively involved for months withc::Jor any of the other folks.

SPECIAL. AGENT I \\bx>xc1 I Have you been notified recently of the active release of this report to the public?

<1>MI Kct I t heard about it. And I think I might have heard about it from some NRC folks because we deal with them routinely as part of the critical lnfrastructure activities we do. So I've heard it through those folks and I think I may have seen some stuff in the news articles and stuff that I read periodically.

SPECIAL AGENT I \\bK7xc1 I What is the impact of that public release?

\\bx]JIC; J There's been no impact for us and no impact on any of the programs that rve been involved in. So I don't know.

Like I ~ id, if I remember correctly, we only recommended one table be held back because we didn't think there would be that much of an impact with the other material being available.

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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 l7 18 19 20 l3 SPECIAL AGENT I 1b~1)(c1 I Okay.

Is there something I haven't asked you with regards to the this matter that you feel would help us in resolution of releasing this reactor report to the public?

11>X7Kct I No. And I have not gone back and reviewed the report that was provided to me recently in preparation for this just to get up to speed.

I can't think of anything else.

Uke l said, our involvement was somewhat remote. l don't even think we met even once face-to-face on this issue. It was just a few phone calls and a few emails. But we did not see a lot of high level sensitivity to the material if I remember correctly.

SPECIAl AGENT j I111c1)(c1 I Some other, so~ engineers, within our agency have made a complaint that t"" NRC is over classifying some security related information with regards to flooding times, information In relation to time intervals that should cooling of the reactors not occur the time it would take for that reactor to fall.

These engineer5 state that this is not security related Information and should not be withheld from the public.

00 you have any professional Opilllon regarding the protection of that type of informatM>f'?

I'd really have to take - I'd really like to see eKactly what that information is before making any opinion on "tt. So I could fully reR 8ffl8fll: USE 811Wf NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPOR'TfRS ANO ffiANSCRIBERS

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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 f8fl 8FFl&M. Wfif OHi!¥ 14 understand exactly what they're talking about and how it fits into the whole scheme of vulnerability and consequences if you will. Without seeing it again and really looking closely at it, I wooldn't want to comment on it.

I do know that ** My professional opinion though on information like this as a whole is that that kind of information needs to be discussed with those folks who are responsible for support111g a response at such a facllity so that everybody knows the importance of response timely, planning, preparing. Should one of these unlikely events hal)l)en they've done the best job they c~n to be ready for it.

There definitely needs to be use of the Information for officia1 purposes with Federal people who would help with the response, state and local folks who respond and obviously the facility folb. It may not necessarily need to be available to the seneral public, but at least it needs to be used by those folks who we would rely on to protect health and safety and lives if you will in the environment.

In mv opinion, that's where one of the issues is that sometimes the Federal Government does dassify infonnation too much to the point that they don't effectively share it with those follcs who really need to see it for their official duties. And that does present an impediment sometimes.

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• L rJii lilfBf 15 I can't 5ay that's the case here.

But there has been issues that we've faced in general with working with private, the state and local gcwemments and folks SPECIAL AGENT I l'l(1MC1 I I don't believt that that's the case here.

coi/iJcCJ Okay.

SPEOAL AGENT I rw,cc*, I It was more withholding that information from the general public.

1oxlxc1 I The gen er al public, right.

SPECIAL AGENT I (l>Xll!C1 I From a security concern basis.

Okay.

SPECIAL AGENT I *w~,, I~ would you like to add anything?

The only thing I would acid is that!

/b\\1Jxc1 I is l'I_Y1_J1C_1 ______

__.)*

I'll give youlll]information. And !

would just recommend that you contacfflas well. ~supposed to be I <t>x1~c) for 30 days or thereabouts.

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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 16 SPECIAl AGENT I ll>X7~c1 I The email responses back to the NRC.

You and[)filwould have the same ** would!;ID,ave additional correspondence that you would not?

SPECIAL AGENT I ;oxlxci I I will collect,~~;*fontact information when we conclude.

Okay.

SPECIAL AGENT I (tj(T,c, I I'm going to close the interview.

Okay.

SPECIAL AGENT I Ml11C1 I ~

with respect to the testimony that v<>u have provided during tnis interview, do you need to make any changes or clarify any part of your testimony 7 I don't believe so.

SPECIAL AGENT I !b~ixc, I ~you are reminded that this is an ongoing investigation. And the Qt.testions that have been asked, your responses to those qve$tions and any information VoU have learned as a result of this interview are con!.idered to be confidential and sensitive information and should not be discl<>5ed to anyone else.

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17 Okay.

SPECIAL AGENT I 1*x1xci I Do you acknowledge this and agree to maintain confidentiality?

Yes.

SPECIAL AGENT I 1*K7xci I This concludes the interview.

The time is 9:27 a.m. and the date is November 29, 2012. Off the record.

(Whereupon, at 9:27 a.m., the above entitled matter was concluded.)

"J!bn OFFIUAL tl!iE.-,w.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS

Case

Title:

Origination Doclink: :

OFFIGl,l(L l:lSE OPL:Y Memos to File l'ref}(Jred by: I (b)(7l(C) j o,1::01w11 Misuse of Government Case Numbef:

Position and Inappropriate Conduct by RES Employee

Subject:

CRISCIONE Conversation with NRG Employees Report Date: 0311912011 Narrative:

C 11 031 On March 29, 2011, While attending the NRC and It's Environment course, Special Agent (SA)

I (0Jt111ci ptfice of Inspector General (OIG), Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC).

overheard Larry CRISCIONE, Division of Risk Analysis, Office of Research, NRC. having a conversation with

{bH7l(Cl

, Information and Record Services Division, Office of Information Services, NRC. and (o)(7)(Ci Division of Preparedness and Response, Office of Nuclear Security and Incident Response, NRC, regarding his interaction with the press following the Fukushima-Daiichi incident in Japan.

SAi (t~r11c 1

!heard CRISCIONE speaking to! (bJ(7l(C) land I (b)(7)(CJ I about what things were like for each of them the days after the Fukushima-Daiichi incident in Japan CRISCIONE explained to both that he was called early one morning by a reporter and asked about the situation in JapanJ (bH7J(CJ I asked CRISCIONE what his response was and CRISCIONE stated that he answered the reporter's questions as best he could.

Agent Note: Nobody questmned CRISCIONE wh he didn't direct the reporter to the NRC Public Affairs Office as stated in NRC policy S 1*X"1c-will follow up with interviews of I (bl17 HC) I and I,bll7>(CJ !to see if they had any sim1 ar conversations with CRISCIONE during the training.

Concurred by Name Date (b)(7)(C) 0412012011 OJ:20 PM Allow Other Editcn:

Edit Aulhorlzalloo:

Request Review:

Approval Approveci I (b)(7)(C) 0412012011 04 00 29 PM OFFiCIAE O~~ Ol<ILI' 1

AGENT'S INVESTIGATIVE REPORT CASE FILE NUMBER 11-31

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NRC Office of the Inspector General PAGE 1 OF 1 PAGES ___

Oi;'AILS

SUBJECT:

CRISCIONE Conversation with NRC Employees n March 29, 2011. While attending the NRC and It's Environment course, Special Agent (SA)! ib~n,c, (bll7J(CJ Office of Inspector General (OIG). Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), overheard Lar RISCIONE. Division of Risk Analysis, Office of Research. NRC, having a conversation with (b1(7)1CJ Information and Record Services Division. Office of Information Services, NRG, and tb)F)!Cl Division of Preparedness and Response; Office of Nuclear Security and Incident Response. NRC. regarding his interaction with the press following the Fukushima-Daiichi incident in Japan.

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1 heard CRISCIONE speaking to I tbh 1 i,C) I and I 11>>{ 1 l!Cl j about what things were like for each of them the ays after the Fukushima-Daiichi incident in Japan. CRISCIONE ex lained to both that he was a/led early one morning by a reporter and asked about the situation in Japan.

(bl{7J!Cl asked CRISCIONE hat his response was and CRISCIONE stated that he answered the reporter's questions as best he could.

gent Note* Nobody quest1oned CRISCIONE why he didn't direct the reQDrter to t~e N,,1,M....1.....11.w.1.LW,Affairs Office s stated 1n NRC policy. S~

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• lwill follow up with interviews 0(1bJ{1i(C: }and to see if they ad any similar conversations with CRISCIONE during the training.

SIGNATURE AND DATE TEAM LEADER SIGNATURE DATE 1fflS OOCUMENt IS 'tHI! PROPER r' Of"TMe !IIIC. IF tOAfil!CI TD AflfOTlt!II AG1!NC I I I ANO' Is CDNTl!NTS A"l!"NOT TO Ill! lll!l'II00UCl!D OR DIS I kl BU I i!D 00, SibE iHI! lll"ct!MNG ~

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Case Tide:

Program Office:

Team:

0FFl01,ltl U!E vlfrf Chron Note Prepared~: I (bi(7r1c1 I 07.1261]()/ J Release of NRC Security Case Number:

Related Documents by RES Employee Office of Administration Fiscal Year:

!*P11c, Primary Classification:

Origination Doclink: J Date:

07/26/2013 C 13 001 2013 Employee Misconduct Note Tille:

Receipt of CRISCIONE transcript copy from._l __

1°1*_:r1_c;1 _

_,lwith comments.

Note:

I 1b~7Y,c,

!reported "no Oconee/Jocassee related redactions needed" regarding the January 17, 2013, CRISCIONE interview transcript. I 1b1axci I added the transcript did contain figures that~ffice previously had considered sensitive information and not publicany releasable, but based on new guidance over the past week from the NRC Office of General Counsel the figures relating to the Jocassee dam failure probability rate. flood heights at Oconee, and core damage frequency at Oconee - having been previously released under FOIA, the Agency can not legally defend, nor will DOJ defend the Agency to continue to withhold this information. As such the Agency will release this information in future requests.

(l,~7,1c1 lwill provide the meeting meetings from the OGC centric meeting last week outlining the agencies options forwarded regarding the Oconee flooding issue as it relates to CRISCIONE ConfldenUality: Standard Reed Authoriza<<lon: !Monitor], (AH]

Allow Other Edltcn:

Edh AUlhortultion:

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