ML20248E840

Transcript of 890914 Briefing on Status of NRC Technical Training Program in Rockville,Md.Pp 1-65.Viewgraphs Encl

ML20248E840
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Issue date:	09/14/1989
From:	NRC COMMISSION (OCM)
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REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8910060052
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l Q I DISCLAIMER <1 i This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held on September 14 1989, in the Commission's office at One l White Flint - North, Rockville, Maryland. The meeting was open to public attendance and observation. This transcript has not been reviewed, corrected or edited, and it may contain inaccuracies. The transcript is intended solely for general (E^ informational purposes. As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is not part of the formal or informal record of decision of the matters discussed. Expressions of opinion in this transcript do not necessarily reflect final determination or beliefs. No pleading or other paper may be filed with the Commission in any proceeding as the result of, or addressed to, any statement or argument contained herein, except as the Commission may authorize. C ~ NEAL R. GROSS court REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVENUE, N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHMGioN, D.C. 20005 (202) 232-6600

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BRIEFING ON STATUS OF NRC-TECHNICAL TRAINING. PROGRAM PUBLIC MEETING f Nuclear Regulatory Commission One White Flint North Rockville, Maryland Thursday, September 14, 1989 lb The Commission met in open session, pursuant to notice, at 10:00 a.m., Kenneth M. Carr, Chairman, presiding. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: KENNETH M. CARR, Chairman of the Commission THOMAS M. ROBERTS, Commissioner KENNETH C. ROGERS, Commissioner JAMES R. CURTISS, Commissioner I NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. l. Washington, D.C. 20005 I (202) 234-4433 L

i.; .,c .. V-i .t 2 TJ ' STAFF SEATED AT THE. COMMISSION TABLE: SAMUEL'J. CHILK, Secretary JOE SCINTO, Deputy General Counsel HUGH THOMPSON,. -Operations Deputy. Executive ' Director for EDWARD.L. JORDAN, Director. AEOD R. LEE SPESSAND,' Director, DOA, AEOD 'KENNETH.A. RAGLIN, Director, TTC, DOA, AEOD ~Eld a { i (1 NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

i1 s a e f'. 3 ~ (^ 1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 10:05 a.m. 3 CHAIRMAN CARR: Good morning, ' ladies and 4 gentlemen. 5 Today the staff will brief the Commission on 6 the status of NRC technical training programs.' Since. 7 enhancing the technical effectiveness and professional 8 credibility of the staff, particularly our inspectors, 9 remains one of our major goals, the Commission is 10 particularly interested in the ongoing technical 11 training process and any innovations being implemented 12 to keep the staff up to date. In my experience, a 13 valid and continuing training process is essential to { 14 maintaining a viable technical organization. 15 I understand copies of the briefing slides 16 are available at the entrance to the meeting room. 17 Do any of my fellow Commissioners have any 18 opening comments? 19 If not, Mr. Thompson, please proceed. 20 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. 21 Commissioners. I'd like to certainly echo my support 22 that we have for the importance of the training center 23 and the training programs for NRC employees. I think 24 it's even more important these days that the training 25 centers and our training capability provide us with . ( NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. l Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

l ;' q :,, T,, i .p ' i: if p 4 kij. 1 .the capable employees that-we: depend on for the key ofL 2 our safety mission. The college programs today are l l 3 having fewer-graduates in the nuclear-training l 4 . program, which really emphasizes the-need for :n. i ) l 5 . training. program that covers not 'only the inspector-j l. 6' program:but also all of NRC. l 7 'It's certainly ' been m y ' o b s e r v a t i o r. li n the 8 recent years -to see the training program grow from one 9' that was focused primarily, to th'e inspection .10 enforcement activities of the region, which remains.a. 11 very.important effort, but also to cover areas such'as-

12 the operator licensing program that NRR would have a

' {5b - 13 major responsibility for, at least.when we initially 14 started our request to expand that, as well as to the 15 NMSS program. IG So, today I'm-just delighted to see' the 17 progress the training center has made in being able to-18 support the mission of NRC overall. I think today's 19 briefing will focus and highlight on that. In fact, I 20 think Mr. Jordan will identify things even beyond that 21 that the training activities do today. 22' So, the briefing will be done today by Mr. -23 Jordan and Mr. Raglin, and Lee Spessard here who's 24 also responsible for the activities here in 25 headquarters are with us today. So, we'll be pleased NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

E. '4 ( 5 ( 1 to respond to any questions after the briefing. j 2 Ed? 3 MR. JORDAN: Okay. We last briefed the-4 Commission in January of 1988 and at that time' we 5 described the

scope, the quality and quantity-of-6

. training that was being done, and we identified some 7' initiatives that were underway, including we were 8 .in the process of procuring. a B&W simulator at the 9 time and we were in the process of developing a 10 training and qualification program in conjunction with 11; the program offices for all of the NRC technical 12

staff, and we were going through some curriculum 13 enhancements at the time.

This is consistent with our 14 mission to develop and provide technieni

training, 15 manage contracts in support of

that, manage the 16-simulator facility and, in addition, provide technical 17 assistance in various areas where the training center 18 has special expertise.

For instance, in the numbers 19 of senior licensed personnel that worked at the 20 center. 21 We feel that-the organization and people are 22 the most important element. There are a total of 28 23 positions at the training center. There is a vast 24 experience and capability there in terms of their 25 background. Nineteen of the people are from the Navy ( NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. l Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 ______-___-__-____a

.a. 6 1 Nuclear ' Program, 15 of them have SRO

licenses, 2

certifications, and 18 of them have prior commercial 3 experience. Of course, that's an overlay of the same 4 people having many of the same elements. 5 We feel also a strength is the coordination 6 with the program offices. We have a training advisory 7 group that the program offices have participated in to 8 a very high level that provides advice to the center 9 on our overall training programs. We have good 10 feedback from that. 11 l'd like to talk briefly about the 12 facilities, for those that have not been there, and we-l 13 have a couple of slides that we can show to describe 14 the facilities. 15 (Slide) Could I have the first

slide, 16 please?

17 There is a modern office building on the 18 outskirts of Chattanooga, which is about five miles 19 outside of the town. Motel facilities are adjacent, a '20 pleasant, harmonious area. 21 (Slide) Could I have the next

slide, 22 please?

23 The training center occupies three floors of 24 that building and this is a photograph showing the 25 installation of one of the simulators. This is a b NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

c. f.

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1 black box. General Electric simulator that was-2a installed in 1986. I was,just sort of. struck by the: 3 d'ifficulty of installing a simulator on a third. floor I 4 of a modern office build'ng. i 5-(Slide) Could .I have the. next

slide, 6 --

please?- 7 This'is a picture in the classroom. That is 8 the simulator classroom, the black box boiling water 9 reactor. This is a plant -- I'm sorry, a simulator 10 that's close to the Clinton facility in terms.of its 11 design layout. It has many CRT displays, so it' 12 provides a good environment for the modern control .13 room for our. personnel. { 14 (Slide) Could I have the next

slide, 15 please?

16 The next is the SNUPPS Westinghouse 17 simulator. This was installed in 1987. This - is a 18 view.from the instructor's platform and it looks like l 19 a real casualty in process there. The panels are lit 20 up very brightly, not normal operations. 21-(Slide) Next slide, please. I 22 That's the most recent simulator, the third .23 and'last simulator that we have, WNP-1, B&W that was l 24 installed in 1988. The SPDS panels are being pointed 1 25 to and this was during a briefing of the Soviet g. l l NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 l

l, .1 8-1 ' inspectors that! were 'here last month and one of the f . 4.: 2' sinulator engineers, Jim Griffin, is 'giving a 3-description. 4 There-are five classrooms at the facility, a 5 number of' training aids. '6. (Slide) Could I have - the next slide, 7 'please? '8 Just an illustration. A BWR. jet pump and a 9 control rod drive module and these.are static displays 10 but.they're beneficial in communicating with the 11 students. 12 I'd like to step on Ken just a little bit 13 and talk about the training and qualification program. 14 (Slide) Could I have the next slide,: 15 please? 16 Because that was.a commitment we made during 17 the last briefing that we were in the process of 18 establishing a cooperative training qualification 19 program for the program offices and we -- 20 (Slide) Could I have the next slide, 21 please? 22 And what I wanted to point out is that the 23 miles -- this is page 3 -- the milestones that were l 24 established for 1988 and 1989 have essentially all .(' l 25 been met. The positions that were identified for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTEftS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N.W. (202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON D.C.20005 9 02) 232 8000

4. l tj 9 t I having the training and qualification program were -4 1 2 identified, training needs have b'een established in a 3 rather rigorous

fashion, and those training needs 4

between the offices have been integrated so that the-5 . training center can provide a reasonable level of 6 efficiency in meeting those needs. And finally the 7 requirements and the revised training programs have 8 essentially been develope'd and we'll be then reviewing 9 the effectiveness of this program. 10 The next area that we will look at will be 11 reexamining the inspector training itself. We've been 12 conducting, of course, the normal inspector training 13 program and refreshers, but I think it's time to 14 reexamine that overall program. 15 With that, I turn it over to Ken and let him 16 carry through the rest of the material. 17 MR. RAGLIN: Thank you very much, Ed. 18 I'd just like to highlight some of the l 19 phases that were associated with that program for l 20 developing the headquarters training aids. 21 (Slide) Could I have slide 3 again, please? 22 The first part was associated with grouping 23 positions and that involved job analysis in some cases l l 24 and an intuitive approach in other casen and I'd just 25 like to recognize a great deal of hard work on behalf g NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

.1 l. r3 10 4ld 1 of the program offices and on behalf of the Office of 2 Personnel, in particular in the job analysis process. 3 As we continued through the phases, group 4 needs were identified and the groups we're talking-5 about are groups of similar technical positions. For-6

example, in NRR there are seven groups, including 7

positions such as project managers, reviewers from 8 different divisions, technical assistants. 9 The established requirements line on the 10 chart there indicates the program office 3 11 implementation through an office letter or whatever 12 means of the actual training requirements and the two l ./ 13 stars on the bar there indicate the implementation by-14 NRH and NMSS. So, we're very pleased that this has 15 happened because it greatly facilitates quantifying -16 the real needs of the program offices. 17 I'd like to highlight the fact that the 18 development of the revised programs actually got an 19 early start. We were able to proceed on that almost 20 immediately because from the beginning we had a pretty 21 good idea of where NRR was headed in reactor 22 technology courses and we were able to develop and 23 implement the courses in 1988, and that process has 24 continued with several presentations of courses 1 25 specifically for the NRR staff through 1989. NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

11 f' l Il 1 (Slide) The next slide, please? 2 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: Excuse me. Before you. 3 do

that, how many positions did you -identify in 4

numbers? 5 MR. RAGLIN: For

NRR, it's seven large l

6 groups. For NMSS, it's 28 smaller groups, where each l 7 of those groups still has an accumulation of different 8 positions, but similar positions. Then within AEOD. 9 there are maybe ten different' technical groups. 10 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: And those are groups, 11 .those .aren't individual positions

though, is that 12 right?

13 MR. RAGLIN: In some cases it might,just be 14 one position description, several people. In other 15 cases it would be a grouping of two or three position 16 descriptions that might include eight or ten people. 17 MR. THOMPSON: But I think, and correct me 18 if I'm wrong, it covers say most of the technical 19 inspection activities in the regions. So, all your 20 technical inspectors would be covered, as well as most I 21 -of your reviewers in NMSS and NRR headquarters. So I 22 think most of the technical positions within NRR, NMSS 23 and the regions and AEOD -- 24 MR. RAGLIN: And AEOD, right. 25 MR. THOMPSON: are covered by this (. NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 I (202) 234-4433 I i

..__________________.___,-_._...m.___._____--______ 4 1 program. 2' COMMISSIONER ROGERS: This just says .3 headquarters though. 4 MR. RAGLIN: Hight. 5-COMMISSIONER ROGERS: The headquarters part 6 of it. 7 'MR. JORDAN: We had already a regional 8 training program and so we've continued to implement 9 that. 10 MR. THOMPSON: But this was to broaden it to 11 include the headquarters things. So, I think if 12 you're trying -- what does it cover today, we cover bl SI 13 just about all of our technical positions that we have .j 14 there. 15 MR. RAGLIN: (Slide) Slide 4, please? 16 Feedback is an extremely important part of 17 the training process and in support of the feedback, 18 we do provide a dynamic schedule. We try to project 19 out a year and a half in advance. In fact, the 20 schedule for FY '90 and continuing about halfway into 21 FY '91 is presently at the printers. 22 On the other hand, we realize that in order 23 to meet the needs, the schedule will

change, the 24 priorities will shift.

Certain courses will have to 25 be added. Certain courses will not be able to be NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 --(202) _234-4$33

l ge ) g 13 M 1 supported bec'ause of one reason or another. It's a 2 constant - process of responding to changing needs. A 3 couple of examples of these changing needs have been 4-within the last year we were able to accommodate the l

5 training of about 25 contract operator license 6

examiners, 15 in Westinghouse technology and ten in 7 General Electric' technology. That's a significant 8 perturbation in the training process because these 9 were people that were going through the full course 10 series and-it required some coordination,-but it was 11 accomplished. 12 Another example. of shifting needs has been 13 the use of simulator emergency operating procedure { 14 training as simulator refresher training. That was 15 something chat was suggested by the regions based on 16 the needs today compared with the needs.a year ago and 17 so that's being implemented at this time. 18 Another example of the response to the needs 19 has been the development and the shifting of some of 20 the courses in direct support of the headquarters 21 offices. 22 Another thing I'd like to particularly 23 highlight is the training advisory group because I 24 just can't overemphasize the importance of this 25 particular group in providing feedback and direction C NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.F. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

a-14 h 1-to where-the technical. training programs really should .{u 1e bt 2 be headed. 3-It's an outstanding group whose typical 4 representatives are division directors, the regions 5 and the program ; of fices are all represented on the '6 group that meets twice a year at the training center L 7 and it allows us to maintain very close ties with both 8 the regions and the program offices. It's resulted in 9' a ' number of new initiatives. and feedback which have 10 changed some of the existing programs and these, in 1 11

turn, have led to program revisions which are 12 translated into changed training requirements such as

{ 13 in the NRC Inspection Manual Chapter 1245 for 14 inspectors, the examiner standards for operator 15 license examiners and office letters for.the programs l 16 associated with headquarters offices. 17 (Slide) Next slide, please. 18 This chart gives an indication of the 19 quantity of technical training that's been provided 20 over the last few years. We use the term " course 21 weeks" because that's something that can be correlated 22 generally with the level of effort required to put on 23 the course if it's something that the staff does, or 24 with the amount of money that's required in order to ("' 25 contract for the course. NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W. (202) N WASHINGTON, D.C. 20006 (202) 232 6

.q.; 's l I '15 . (." l .The chart shows an increase in course weeks i 2 both for reactor technology training and for 3 specialized technical training. Specialized technical 4 training is a name that we give a grouping of 5 training. It's primarily non-reactor

training, 6

although not totally exclusive of that. 7 The big increase in reactor technology 8 training actually occurred in the statistics for 9 fiscal year 1988 and that was associated with bringing 10 on line full course series in the B&W design and 11 development and implementation of some courses ' for 12 NRR. 4' 13 The big change in the statist:cs for 14 specialized technical training has occurred within the 15 last year. There are 13 new specialized technical 16 training courses that have been brought on line in the 17 last year. The statistics are dominated by several 18 presentations of examination techniques courses for 19 operator license examiners which I'll speak to 20 momentarily. Secondly, site access training and site 21 access refresher training which has involved large 22 numbers of the headquarters staff within the last 23 year. 24 So, the overall statistics certainly support 25 the idea that the quantity of training that is going NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

.l a i 16 (-] 1 on.has'been increasing. We appear to be pretty stable 2 in reactor technologies, so I would essentially 3 project that line straight across. On specialized 4 technical training, I believe we're probably at a peak' 5 right now because the statistics over - the last year. 6 are higher because of all the site access and site 7 access refresher training. .I would expect it to go 8 down a little bit and level off. 9-The distribution of training over this same. 10 period of time has shifted a little bit. For reactor 11 technology courses going back to FY '86, there was an 12 approximate distribution of 75 percent regional people 13 attending and 25 percent headquarters. A comparison 14 for FY 89 on the number of training opportunity 15 slots, it's about 50/50 for reactor technology. For 16 specialized technical training courses, we project the 17 long-term distribution to be about 60 or 70 percent 18 from the regions and about 40 or 30 percent from the 19 headquarters offices. 20 (Slide) Next slide, please? 21 There have been some significant 22 modifications to the reactor technology curriculum in 23 support of the user needs and a few of these are 24 highlighted on this slide. First of all, there's been-25 a development in implementation of a full course NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

,f., 17 9 1 theories in Combustion Engineering technology. This 2 gives us the full series in all four vendor designs

3 and when I speak. of a full series I'm speaking of a 4

three week reactor technology course, followed by a 5 two week advanced technology course, followed by a one 6 week simulator course, all in the same technology. 7 Another major initiative has been the 8 development of a cross training neries in the B&W and 9 CE technology areas. The idea here was to provide a 10 mechanism by which. technical personnel who are already 11 formally qualified ' in one of the PWR vendor designs .12 could qualify in a second one in a shorter-period of 13 time without sacrificing any of the quality. And so, { 14 what we've ended up with is a three/one series where 15 it's a three week combined course picking up the best 16 features of the first two courses and a simulator 17 course. It allows qualification from a formal 18 training standpoint in four weeks as opposed to six 19 weeks and it maintains the same standards of level of 20 detail and exam quality. 21 These full series courses and cross training 22 courses are typically. attended by the reactor 23 inspectors, the operator license examiners, 24 headquarters operations officers and some other 25 miscellaneous troops. ( NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

3: gl 18 ,j; 1 Another big effort has been associated with 2 the development of courses for the NRR staff. We 3 called it a mini-series, -just for lack of a better 4 name. It's been developed and implemented for the 5 Westinghouse and General Electric technologies and 6 it's a two/one series for NRR, or two weeks followed 7 by one week -- a two week classroom followed by a one 8 week simulator course. And it's widely attended by 9 NRR project managers and some other technical groups. 10 Finally in reactor technology area, there's 11 been extensions of the full course series in support 12 of additional needs for operator license examiners. (.5 13 So, one to two course weeks simulator time have been d 14 provided for operator license examiners. The first 15 one is associated with more hands-on training doing 1G normal evolutions, actions that they will be directly 17 observing licensed candidates conducting during the 18 exams. 19 The second extra week is associated with 20 emergency operating procedures on the simulator. It's 21 vendor specific, EOP training in that case. l 22 (Slide) Next slide, please. l 23 In addition to the expanded reactor 24 technology training that's been provided on behalf of 25 operator license examiners, a great deal of effort has NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. l Washington, D.C. 20005 L______-_____--.-_-_------ - - - - f M 3-M -A N ---- --

m. N". g. .o 6 i 4 ' k-19 I also taken place to provide examination techniques 2 training. It's. involved a great deal of work by the' 3 training center staff and

NRR, in particular the 4

operator licensing branch, over the~last year and a 5 half. The initial development and presentation of the 6 courses was provided through contractors. Initially 7 there were three courses, a written exam techniques, a 8 simulator exam-techniques and a walk-through exam 9 techniques course. There were four rounds of these 10 three courses given over about the last year or so. 11 Relatively recently, we've shifted and brought the 12 responsibilities in house such that the instructors { 13 for the examination techniques courses are the 14 training center for one of the instructor positions 15 and NRR from the operator licensing branch. 16 So, we feel this has been a good move. It 17 gives a better perspective, a better NRC perspective 18 for the training that we're trying to provide and we 19 feel it's also given us better quality. 20 CHAIRMAN CARR: Who is the contractor? Do 21 you resember? l 22 MR. RACLIN: We used the task order 23 contracts that we had in place for reactor technology 24 and RTS, Resource Technical Services, was the task l i 25 order holder. Separately, they subcontracted to an 5 NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

l Q l.

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. Ip i 20 '10 - l-1 individual who ' t,v.s been involved with operato'r' L 2 licensing as a contract examiner before and it was 3 really'a combination. 4-CHAIRMAN CARR: Okay. 5 MR. HAGLIN: The courses have now been 6-consolidated -into two courses that will be presented 7 on a continuing basis by the NRC staff. One of them 8 is the written exam techniques course and the other is 9 an operating exam techniques course'which incorporates 10 both the simulator and the walk-through portions. 13 (Slide) Next slide, please. 12 Another major area of emphasis over the last 13 couple of years has been associated with health 14 physics training, both in the reactor area and the 15 nuclear materials fuel cycle area. There have been 16 training development workshops.in November of '88 for i 17 the reactor HP community. That got us started on the 18 right foot. There's been a great deal of coordination 19 with NMSS and the regional materials personnel in 20 establishing new manual chapter requirements for 21 materials inspectors. 22 I was personally involved in the state cost 23 sharing task force that recently issued NUREG 1356. 24 As part of that, I got to take a good look at the 25 programs that were in place and planned for the h .. 7 NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. f Washington, D.C. 20005 ) (202)234-4733 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - _ - _ _ - _ - --_-_-]

II' O '( [ I 21' -{ 1 training of. agreement state. personnel. As a result of 2 the work ~ with the different groups of people, we've 3 been able'to consolidate our position a-bit and make 4-more efficient use.of the resources. 5 One of the breakthroughs has been the actual 6 structure of the. curriculum for the reactor HPs, the 7 materials

HPs, the fuel cycle HPs

and,

-in all 8 probability, the agreement state personnel. By the 9 curriculum structure, I'm speaking of instead of - 10 having all courses front loaded such that you have to 11 do everything before you're able to be certified as a 12 qualified inspector, there's now a grouping where one-13 batch of them is required for certification. And at 14 that point in

time, assuming the individual has 15 completed all of the' other activities, he can be 16 certified for independent inspections.

17 There's another grouping that still required 18

training, but it's not required right away.

It's i 19 required over a period of time, maybe two years. And 20 then there's a third grouping that's supplemental 21 training for specialization, the idea there being that l 22 not all HP inspectors need this specialization'in this 23 particular area or that one. l 24 Another breakthrough I feel we've made in 1 25 the HP area has been the concept of having certain NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 1 m@O 2%G-GG%3-.- O

- ~.

,i I,-.

l!):. f;-l; 22 i ' !i J ~' l courses that can be attended by both reactor and l. 2 materials personnel. _There are some. examples of'that 3 where it's a stand alone course and it's the same all 4 the way through. 5 There are other examples where it's a course 6 that has certain modules which are core modules 7 attended by all people in the. class and other modules 8 split out into breakout sessions where the materials 9 people go into one room and get a specific module at 10 the same time the reactor people go into another room Il and get something different. 12 We look forward to common courses that would 'G 13 involve both NRC staff and agreement state personnel 14 as well. This has to increase the flexibility for the 15 managers that are trying to schedule the courses in, 16 schedule the people into the courses. It typically 17 allows an opportunity to attend maybe one of three 18 different presentations of the course during a given 19 year rather than being specifically limited on this 20 one particular week that a course might only be given 21 once in a year. 22 So, we feel there's been a lot of progress 23 in the consolidation of the health physics area. 24 (Slide) Next slide, please. 25 A number of cou rs:es associated with the f NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

a l l 23 k. I health physics curriculum have been provided during 2 the last year. This particular slide shows some of l 3 other HP courses which will be made available during l 4 the next year. The way they're grouped on the slide 1 5 is chronologically. I'd like to highlight the second 6 one, the HP technology course. That's a course that 7 we consider to be the cornerstone of the curriculum 8 for the reactor and materials health physicist. It 9 includes basic coverage of

exposure, instruments 10 surveys, ALARA findings and applications.

This is an 11 example of one of those courses which would be 12 attended by reactor and materials personnel and it 13 would have breakout sessions. 14 The one above it, teletherapy and 15 brachytherapy is an example of a course which is 16 specific to the materials area and, of course, is not i 17 appropriate for the reactor people. I 18 The third one on the

list, whole body 19 counting / internal dosimetry is an example of,a course 20 which is appropriate and included in the curriculum 21 for both reactor and materials personnel.

There's no 22 change in that class. I mean there's no breakout l 23 session in that class. 24 The last two, reactor radwaste course and an 25 advanced health physics course, are courses that are l NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

I 24 1 required for reactor health physicists and not 2 appropriate for the materials or fuel cycle personnel. 3 (Slide) Next slide, please. 4 In addition to the courses associated with 5 the henith physics curriculum, a number of other 6 specialized technical training courses have been 7 provided. Some of these are highlighted on this 8 rlide. I'd like to mention non-power reactor 9 technology. That's one that's come to pass in the 10 last

year, in fact within the last quarter.

It 11 involves non power reactor design types and systems of 12 these

reactors, reactor physics as specifically 13 related to the

fuel, non power reactor licensing,

(.C _J 14 technical specifications, inspections. Another one, 15 co ld chemistry course that was given within the last 16 year. This dealt with analytical techniques, 17 analysis, technical specifications, et cetera. 18 One area that's consumed quite a bit of our 19 time over the past year is associated with site access 20 traitaing and site access refresher training. Right 21

now, both of these are given in stand-up classroom 22 environment.

I'd like to highlight our plans for site 23 access refresher training for the future. The 24 refresher training is something that all personnel 25 needing unrestricted access to the different NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 830-66@@

y, /. 25 '( I facilities need to be refreshed on every year..That's 2_ a fairly massive effort. So, our long-range solution 3 for this involves the.use of computer based training-4 for the site access refresher training. We. project j. 5 that will be available here in headquarters. in the 6-learning; center managed by the Office of' Personnel 7 starting in FY '90 and continuing and it will also be 8 available in the regions. 9 One more thing -l'd like to highlight is a 10 new initiative on safeguards training. This 11 represents, in essence, a program shift somewhat from 12 NMSS to the training center. It's associated with 13 physical security performance testing workshops that 14 previously were funded by NMSS and developed by Sandia LIS National Lab. Recently there was a safeguards 16 training development workshop at the training center 17 and there will be some revision to the program for the 18 safeguards inspectors. There's going to be a 19 consolidation of the courses previously given by 20 Sandia into a new two week safeguards technology 21 course. 22 I just highlight this one because we're 23 really just scratching the surface from o training 24 center standpoint in the safeguards

area, but the 25 surface is now scratched.

C NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue. N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

.s.. 3 - l- : l' 2G hh l' (S1ide) 'Okay. Next slide, please. 2 Over the last year there-have been a number 3 of special requests for previously unscheduled 4-training. Some 'of these are highlighted on this 5 particular slide. Some training for the government of G Mexico and its regulatory agency. There was a two l 7 week reactor technology course given in Mexico last 8 ' October. .That's the fourth such course that's been 9 given in Mexico since 1977. 10 As un aside, there have. been a number of 11 courses given in foreign countries over the years, 12 'maybe ten or 11 different ones. 13 As a follow-up to that

course, we'll be 14 providing some simulator training for some of the 15 Mexican individuals who were involved in the' previous 16 course and there's a simulator course on the General 17 Electric simulator at the training center in October.

18 We've been able to provide-a couple of 19' reactor technology courses for the State of Illinois 20 personnel. We were just able to work those in on 21 short

weeks, weeks that had holidays where we 22 typically don't have courses scheduled for the NRC 23 staff.

We were able to accommodate that and they were 24 able to accommodate it by having their people work on 25 a holiday. So, that worked out pretty well. .b NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, L.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

-t 8 .27 . (.. l 1 There'.have been two ne>nal-news media 2 seminars ' given at the: training. e.= r: over the last 3 year and I,would distinguish these a.little bit from 4-the previous ~maybe 30 or so news media seminars-that i 5 have.been given in the past. These are different in 6 .that they were a little longer, they were'given at the 7 training center, they involved some demonstrations on 8 the simulators at the training center and they also -9 involved a question and answer session associated with 10 some health physics issues. 11 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: Khat was the l. 12 attendance at those? 13 MR. RAGLIN: It was maybe 10 or 12 people 14 scattered from around the country. There were 15 newspaper reporters. The last one we had a couple of 1G people from The Washington Post. We had one from 17 Nucleanics Week. We typically have newspaper or TV 18 personnel. One of the last two we had three or four 19 people from the State of Florida, r.r it's media 20 personnel. 21 CHAIRMAN CARR: How long do they last? 22 MR. RAGLIN: It was a day and a half. 23 There's a similar session that's planned for 24 October, reactor concepts training for congressional 25 staffers. It will be similar to the national news { NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

r n.: 28 lig 1 media seminars except that it will be. totally focused 2 on reactor. technology and there's no questionc and 3 answer session in health. physics.that's planned for 4-that one. 5' CHAIRMAN CARR: Do you do anything for 6. schools, service clubs, boy scout troops, that kind of-7 stuff? B-MR. RAGLIN: Actually we've never been 9 requested to do anything like that. We've given some 10 tours on occasion, but that's something that could be 11 accommodated relatively easily.if asked. L 12 (Slide) Next slide, please. l g71 13 Another significant area of interest over Rd 14 the last year and for the foreseeable future is -15 associated.with severe accident considerations. A 16 course has been developed in support of the emergency l~ l 17 response function. The course has been a l 18 collaborative st'aff effort in developing and' 19 presenting. The pilot version was given in May of 20 this year. It's one that's designed for reactor 21 safety team members, protective measure team members. 22 It could be given to the executive team if that was 23 considered desireable. 24 The course content includes accident 25 instrumentation and emergency operating procedures, l NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

29 1 which is part of it, and then a large part of it is 2 associated with severe accident phenomenology, core 3 melt sequences and consequences, some sample 4 calculations and some severe accident insights. This 5 collaborative effort has involved AEOD as the program 6 office from the Incident Response Branch outlook. The 7 direct instruction has been provided by training 8 center and, in particular, research personnel. The 9 feedback function is coming from NRR on that one. 10 The plans for the future are to give a li second headquarters presentation and then once the 12 content is well established and stable, the plans are 13 to provide one of these seminars in each of the 14 regions during the next fiscal year. 15 (Slide) Next slide, please. 16 A big initiative for the next couple of 17 years will be associated with expanding risk based 18 perspectives within our existing, well established 19 training curriculum. Recent events such as the one at 20 the Bilbus Plant and Agency concerns about certain 21 high risk events and precursors to these high risk 22 scenarios have caused us to take a look at what we're 23 doing within the reactor technology training program. 24 After we've looked, we've concluded that we really 25 need to build in an additional culture at the training ( NRAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

1 lI '7. 30 1 -center. 2 We have a very strong culture right now from 3 an operational perspective.. What;we plan to do over 4 the next year and a half is continue that, but also 5 build in-a risk based culture. The goal is to-6 increase the staff awareness of risk dominant 7 sequences, major risk contributors. and the staff. 8 here I ' m..first talking about the training center 9 staff and then I'm secondly talking about the NRC 10 staff as a whole and in particular those ' who attend 11 technical training center programs. 12 The concept here is not to create a special 13 risk course. It's to factor in these perspectives 14 into the existing programs. This likewise is a 15 collaborative staff effort that will be heavily i 16 involving AEOD, NRR and Research. It will result'in 17 some speci fi c training to all members on the training 18 center

staff, a

couple of courses in the PRA 19 technology transfer curriculum, and it will result in 20 integration into the existing courses, integration all 21 the way into the lesson plans, the course manuals and 22 routine or special presentations as appropriate. So 23 that's one of the things that we intend to do over the 24 next couple of years. 25 (Slide) Next slide, please. E NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

9, I' 31 '( l Simulator training is provided.in all four 2-reactor vendor designs. As noted earlier, there are 3 .three full scope simulators at the training center, 4 one modeling GE, one modeling Westinghouse and one 5 modeling B&W. In addition. to those, we presently 6 obtain CE simulator time through a contract with 7 Combustion Engineering and the use of the facility at 8 Windsor, Connecticut. 9 This graph shows the usage of NRC. simulator 10 training time over a ten year period starting in FY 11 '86 and projecting out to FY '94. That's the graph 12 that is represented by the black rectangles for each 13 of the data points. The other graph is associated ~14 with cost per hour for the simulator training based on 15 the actual costs and the actual hours. That is 16 highlighted by the triangles there. 17 There are some inflection points on these 18 curves that I would like to point out, starting with 19 the graph that's showing simulator hours. If we go 20 back to fiscal year

1985, all of the simulator 21 training that we were providing was achieved by 22 procuring the time and paying by the hour on a number 23 of different simulators.

It's increased and there's a 24 down dip in fiscal year '87 and the reason for that is 25 that Westinghouse simulator time was generally not too C NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

a.*. 4 (; 32 1 'available during that time period. 2 We were previously using the TVA Sequoyah 3 simulator for Westinghouse simul'ator training and TVA '4 requirements essentially shut us out of - simulator. S training time on that particular machine. Also, this 6 was the year in which-the procurement for the 7 Westinghouse SNUPPS simulator was taking place and as 8 a result we were only able to provide a little over 9 600 simulator hours in Westinghouse technology in FY 10 - '87. So that's why that particular data point-is as 11 low as it is. 12 As we continue on, FY 88, '89 and '90, we i 13 believe that we will reach a stable, steady state {d 14 simulator hour usage of about 4200 hours. That's 15 about 1500 hours on the GE simulator, 1500 on 16 Westinghouse, 600 on the Babcock & Wilcox simulator 17 and about 600 hours of Combustion Engineering 18 simulator training. Those numbers support the number 19 of. full course series and cross training series, 20 NRR mini-series and all of the other training that we 21 believe we'll be providing for years to come. 22 CHAlHMAN CARR: And how many training hours 23 in a year do you usually work with7 24 MR. RAGLIN: For the simulators or -- 25 CHAIRMAN CARR:

Well, yes, whatever you NEAL k.

GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. j Washington, D.C. 20005 1808L $$G-00_33

[.Q ~ ~ ;. 1 33 l' call -- what's a. year's. worth of training hours? 1 2 guess I'm. t rying to figure - out-how much time these 3 things are idle. 4 MR. RAGLIN: Oh,. okay. -From that-5- standpoint, the. Westinghouse simulator is busy on. day 6 shift alment all of the time. The GE simulator is 7 about the same. On most weeks, we have-swing. shift 8 available, although several times throughout the' year-9 we'll have a day shift and a swing shift class on the 10 same simulator. We presently do no training on night 11 shift. 12 So, there is a substantial' amount of 13 simulator. time that's available particularly on the 14' ' swing shift. On the other hand, all of the simulator 15 time involves the use of staff and that's really where 16 we're.more limited than the availability of.the time. 17 The graph of the cost per hours shows an 18 increase from FY '85 to '86. 19 (Slide) could I have the slide, please? l l 20 That i r.c re as e reflects the start-up costs 21 for the General Electric simulator, relocating it to 1 22 the training

center, building modifications, et 23 cetera.

Those start-up costs were $329,000.00. So 24 that's why there's a relatively high number there. 25 For FY '87, it's still relatively high NFAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

a d a 1 34 I bI.~ ; I because it reflects the start-up costs for the 2 Westinghouse simulator project and that was i 3 $325,000.00 and it also reflects a relatively low i l 4 number of Westinghouse simulator hours. i 4 5 For FY '88, it reflects the start-up costs 6 for the B&W simulator and those were $299,000.00. And ( 7 then it heads down. The apparent. anomaly for FY '90 1 8 is associated with the fact that we are upgrading the 9 capabilities of the NRC simulators and so these 10 upgrade costs are reflected in the computations here 11 and that's why FY '90 is higher than FY '89 and then 12 it goes down to a relatively low number. So, if we ('. _"J] 13 look at the out years, the cost per hour gets down to 14 around $200.00 or even less, $200.00 per hour. This 15 compares extremely favorably with the present $700.00 IG per hour that we're paying for Combustion Engineering 17 simulator time. 18 It's also worth noting that we have a stable 19 solution for General

Electric, Westinghouse and 20 Babcock & Wilcox.

We do not have for Combustion 21 Engineering. The solution that we had before is 22 disappearing and we believe that Combustion 23 Engineering will be shutting down that facility in the 24 near future. So, we're presently exploring ( 25 alternatives for a long-term combustion engineering NEAL R. GROT.S 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 _ ____O

.(vg l l '35 k.c i 1 'simulat'or solution. 2 ' CHAIRMAN CARR: What are they going to do 3 with it? 4 MR. RAGLIN: I think _ they'll just shut'it l; 5 'down' and use the space for something else because 6 their paying customers have gone away. Everybody has 7 site specific simulators and the need will go away. 8 CHAIRMAN CARR: So, you might get it on the 9' cheek? 10 MR. RAGLIN: Possibly. 11 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: Of fer..them space for 12 it. 13 MR. RAGLIN: (Slide) Next slide, please. 14 A comprehensive plan to upgrade the 15-capabilities of the NRC controlled simulators is in 16 progress at this' time. The upgrade will be 17 accomplished within. the existing budget and at 18 substantially - less cost than commercial rates. It's 19 associated with both the hardware and a software 20 upgrade to the simulators. It's necessary to upgrade 21 the hardware, and when I speak hardware I'm talking 22 the computer hardware that runs it, in order to 23 support better thermal hydraulic modeling which is 24 necessary. 25 The simulator computer procurement has been C NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 . ~ + -

3 f : ', a i 36 " completed. The' delivery of the first upgraded computer 2 should take place-yet this month. The software 3 improvements include redesign of the. instructor 4 stations, adding input / output override, which allows l 5-failing any individual meter or indicator. Something 6 that's extremely important when we're training 7 examiners, not quite as important when we're training. 8. inspectors. 9

Finally, the upgrade includes the addition

-10 of a high fidelity thermal hydraulic model. This is 11 .possible through the use of the in-house expertise, 12 and when I speak of the expertise I'm talking about 13 two simulator engineers in Chattanooga on the training 14 center staff, as well as Doctor Stan Fabic on the AEOD 15 staff. This combination of people gives us a unique 16 opportunity to carry out the upgrade at relatively low 17 cost in comparison to what utilities are paying for 18 commercial upgrades. 19 We're projecting that when

done, these 20 simulators will then have state-of-the-art 21 capabilities, advanced simulation capabilities, the 22 ability to run extended scenarios, ability to do 23 multiple failures.

It will allow us to do several 24 things that presently we can't do. We project that 25 this is a project that will be completed over the next NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 ( 2 0 2 ) 2 3 4 - 4 4 3_3 _ _ __ _______ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ __ _ _ ___ _ a

j d.. 1;;( 37-I two to three years. 2 -{ Slide) Next slide, please. 7 3 In addition to the technology improvements 4 associated with the simulators,.a number of'other high 5 technology-enhancements are either-in place or are 6' .being actively pursued at this time. These two will 7 be accomplished within the existing budget. Some of 8 the. major examples are highlighted on this particular 9 slide.- A computerized examination bank system is 10 something that we obtained more than a year.ago and is 11 'in operation right now. 12-Over the last year we've added some 13 audiovisual editing equipment at the training center. 14 That gives us local video tape production capability 15 for small scope projects. Case in

point, we're 16 producing a

video tape that will be used by the 17 regions as part of the site access training. It's not 18 something that we're into on a large scale, but we do 19 have some capability in this area. 20 Another example is laser videodisc plant 21 tours. There are some systems that we've watched 22 evolve over the last two to three years and the 23 evolution has reached a point where it's extremely 24 attractive to us now. These laser videodisc systems 25 involve a disk which typically contains about 54,000 l . [.. NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

4 9 -.s f 38 ' 0,. p 1 color slides of components and locations fo r. some l-2 part icular plant. These slides were actually shot at 3 th'at plant. Our plans are to have this capability in 4 the classroom and to have multiple disks so that we 5 can show plants of different BWR product lines and' 6 maybe two or three examples for each of the reactor 7 technology areas. So there's a procurement effort ~on 8 this line already in progress. 9 Another major addition for the future will 10 he classroom engineering simulations. This will take 11 a great advantage of work that's been done by Doctor. 12 Fabic on the AEOD staff in the development of analysis 13 work stations. We're extending it from analysis to 14 training purposes and what we project is that in the 15 classroom we will have this engineering simulation 16 capability running the high fidelity thermal hydraulic 17 code, essentially the same code as will be added to 18 the NRC controlled simulators. 19 We'll have an ability to show certain things 20 in the classroom that you just can't see on the 21 simulators because the parameters either are not 22 computed or they're not displayed. It should allow 23 great enhancement to the transient analysis that's 24 done in our advanced technology course for each of the 25 technologies as well as some specific examples such as b NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

4 4 I ( 1 BWR instability, for example. We can show that on one 2 of these engineering simulations. { 3 The displays from the videodisc and from the 4 engineering simulations will be projected in the 5 classroca on projection TVs which will typically fill 6 up an image size maybe eight by eight feet. What 7 we're trying to do there is make sure the people in B the back of the room can always see the displays and 9 see what's going on. 10 Okay. This concludes the major items that I 11 wanted to describe. I'd like to turn it back over the 12 Ed Jordan. 13 MR. JORDAN: (Slide) Okay. I'd like to { 14 have the next slide, please, and just discuss briefly 15 the other uses of the TTC expertise. 16 Individuals from the staff participate in 17 diagnostic evaluations. In

fact, each of the 18 diagnostics to date has had a

reactor engineer 19 participating, participate in other NRC team 20 inspections such as recent work at Pilgrim and South 21 Texas. Performing technical consulting

for, for 22 instance, the CRGR or the ERDS Project within AEOD.

23 Incident response

support, the training center 24 provides and the personnel provides support in 25 exercises and we expect to have one of the ERDS C

1 NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

9/ 40 'fb. 1 stations available from the' training ' center back to 2-the operation center for use during drills. So:we'll 3 be able to drive an ERDS station back'here from the 4 training center. So, it will be a big benefit for 5 exercises in the future. 6 We've participated in human factors research 7 p ro,ie c t s with the Office of Research in team skills 8 and behavior using the equipment and using personne] 9' from the center itself. And so there is a resource 10 there that has a -- 11 CHAIRMAN CARR: How much use have - those 12 civilian human factors research people made of the 13 simulators when we offered them to them? Have they 14 used them? 15 MR. JORDAN: Outside of NRC -- 16 CHAIRMAN CARR: Remember they came in and 17 said, "One of our problems is we can't ever get on a 18 simulator," and we said, "Try us." 19 MR. JORDAN: I'll let Een answer that. 20 MR. RAGLIN: We've had no formal requests 21 other than those through the Office of Research. 22 There were two projects that involved research and 23 research contractors that were completed last year and 24 there's another one on enunciator research that will 25 be completed sometime between now and May of the next C_ NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

y:., c.- 41 1- ' year. But we've had no university requests or .2 anything like that. 3 MR. JORDAN: -(Slide) Last slide, please. 4 In summary, I think I would sort of-trace 5 the maturation process of the training. center. We 6 really started the training center years ago as more 7 or. less an operator training program using utility 8 operator training techniques and procedures. It 9 evolved to being an inspector training program. Now a 10 technical staff training and I think becoming even 11 more advanced in terms of the culture change that Een 12 described toward severe accident and emphasizing the 13 risk perspectives. So, it continues-to ~ grow and 1 1: 14 think prosper. 15 These

are, in my

view, extraordinary 16 contributions from

a. staff of 28.

We feel that the 17 center has been very responsive to needs of the 18

Agency, particularly now in the health physics and 19 materials and waste areas.

But the using of our in-20 house expertise in upgrading the simulators is a 21 substantial cost savings for the Agency that will in 22 fact provide a very high quality engineering simulator 23 within a very limited budget and, in fact, will also 24 provide expertise for the Agency that we didn't have. 25 High technology enhancements, we're ( NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

{ 42 1 continually looking for ways to improve the 2 effectiveness and efficiency of training. We're 3 looking for training aids that are beneficial for our 4 staff to'use.as well as different techniques. 5 So, I'm very pleased with the progress that 6 the training center has made and I appreciate your 7. interest in hearing the story. 8 MR. THOMPSON: That concludes our briefing, 9 Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. If you have any 10 questions, we'd be delighted to respond to them. 11 CHAIRMAN CARR: Commissioner Rogers? 12~ COMMISSIONER ROGERS: I'*ve got some 13 questions, but before I ask them I just want to say 14 that I think your presentation today was absolutely 15 superb and what you're doing is really exciting. I 16 started making a little list of things that I wanted 17 to compliment you on and I stopped making the list 18 because it was getting too long. 19 So, I'll ask you some questions, but it's 20 really just for my own information. I want to just 21 simply say that there's no doubt in my mind that what 22 you've done here is really outstanding and it's just 23 a -- I did visit the center almost a year ago, I 24 guess, and was very impressed with what I saw there. 25 There's been obviously a lot of progress since then. NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

q.

c..

43 1 So, I think we're getting a lot of mileage for our 2-money in this center. It's really a fine effort. 3 Just a few questions though, if I could, to I 4 L get a little more information. You mentioned early on 5 that there are people at the technical training center 6 who have had corporate experience and some that don't 7 have corporate experience. Some come from the Navy .8 and haven't had any corporate experience, some have 9 come from the private sector. How are you getting a 10 cross fertilization of experience among these people? 11 One of the comments that I hear frequently 12 in the field in talking to people at nuclear power 13 plants is that they think in general our people are- { 14 very highly qualified technically but they haven't had 15 much corporate experience or much operating 16 experience. And we know that that's always a 17 difficulty for us to fill that need. 18 Do you have any ways 'n which you're trying g 19 to somehow or other share the perspective of a person l 20 who has had operating and corporate experience with 21 those who have come without it? 22 MR. RAGLIN: Are you talking about sharing 23 that with members on our staff? 24 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: Yes. No, no, within 25 your own staff, within your own team. C l NEAL R. GROSS 1 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. l Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

-- C <,, 44 b' 'l MR. RAGLIN: Okay. Well, included in this 2_ headquarters training program development, we're part 3 of that and there is an instructor qualification 4 program. We have a rigorous program that brings any 5 new instructor up to speed. We do have a mixture on 6 the staff where several of the people are former i 7 senior reactor operator license -- or former SR0s and 8 we have some other people who haven't had that 9 experience. 10 We spend a great deal of time in instructor 11 training on the simulators. Over the last couple of 12 years, we've gotten all of the staff out in the field ~1 13 on a lot of different activities. For example, we've (u B 14 supported every diagnostic evaluation that's taken 15 place. We've had a number of these team inspections 16 in addition to some of the things that aren't-- 17 weren't listed on the slides there. We've had trips 18 to individual facilities by a number of our people. 19 But we make a very conscientious effort to try to have 20 the same result from each course, independent of who 21 the actual instructors are. There's no substitute for 22 having been an SRO on shift for several years, but we 23 try to compensate for it as best we can. 24 Going the other way, we do have some people 25 who are non-degreed and who are working on the NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

g; - s' 45' ' k' 'l' completion of the degree. So, the way we're 2. approaching it is trying to even out the staff all the 3 way around. 4-COMMISSIONER ROGERS:

Well, sometimes 5

-informal mechanisms work as well or better than a more 6 formal approach to trying to -- you know. a course or' 7 something like that. I don't have anything specific 8 to suggest, but it does seem to me that somehow or some 9 way of informally talking about different perspectives l: 10 as they relate to the training programs, from past 11 experience, can.be a -- it may be sort of telling ' war 12

stories, but they really do help in giving some 13 insights that don't -- you never really want to write 14 down in a course outline or something.

l 15 MR. RAGLIN: I think that we do that to some 16 degree in the qualification progrna because one of the 17 components of that is for each qualifying instructor 18 to get a system check out from certain people for 19 every system that's covered there. Those are very 20 detailed system checkouts, not unlike those in the 21 Navy qualification program. A great deal of material 22 is covered in the -- 23 MR. THOMPSON: Dut I think cross 24 fertilization will be a key, is an important area that 25 we can look at in a little bit more detail since the C NEAL R. GROSS i 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. j Washington, D.C. 20005 i (202) 234-4433 1 l ~ _-_______-__-______----_-_-__"u

_ 3-.3..* c l..; I 40 ~ l key staff is small and I think that's a good point. 2 Lee, did you have something? 3 MR. SPESSARD: Yes. I Just wanted to add 4 that'in addition to everything he mentioned, we've-had 5 a lot of turnover in our staff.. We push that. We've i 6 brought in senior resident inspecters toEthe training 1 7 center. In' fact, we have an individual that's leaving 8 momentarily to go to the Waterford plant. So, we're 9 sending them out and we're bringing them in-in ? 10 addition to -- Il CHAIRMAN CARR: Turnover inside NRC or 12 what's the loss. rate, I guess? 13 MR. RAGLIN: The last few people who have 14 left the training center have gone to other positions 15 within the Agency. 16 MR. SPESSARD: All within the Agency. 17 CHAIRMAN CARR: Okay. And how about are you 18 able to hire industry retired operators? They're 19 starting to retire out there these days. Are you 20 looking at that opportunity? 21 MR. SPESSARD: We're always looking. 22 CHAIRMAN CARR: Advertising for -- 23 MR. SPESSARD: Well, every vacancy that I 24 have, we are actively recruiting. 25 CHAlhMAN CARR: Okay. NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 ___ __ ___u

m,;; e' [ l MR. SPESSARD: My name is and 'in the i2 regional offices, I can tell you that'. 3 MR. THOMPSON: I'm not aware of any recent 4 retired SRos that have applied, but obviously the 5 training center would be high on the-list of 6 opportuniv.2ei for them. 7 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: They may not be 8 thinking or it'though. 9 MR. THOMPSON: That's true. 10 CHAIRMAN CARR: That's why I keep 11' advertising that when I visit. 12 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: I think that's a great 13 thing to do. I hadn't thought to do that, but I've l { 14 heard of people -- 15 CHAIRMAN CARR: I tell them we're looking 16 for ther down there and we're also looking for them on l 1 i-17 our inspection teams. 18 MR. SPESSARD: We just worked out a three 19 person deal within our Agency where a resident 20 inspector from Region IV is coming to the training -21 center and we're sending an instructor there. We've 22 sent an instructor over to Sequoyah and we have 23 exeminers coming to the center. So -- 24 CHAIRMAN CARR: I would imagine some of our 25 residents will be looking for places to go other than C NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 L_--

.c s: ro.1 48 .11_) 1 headquarters as we start moving them_around. 2 MR. RAGLIN: That's a distinct possibility., 3 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: Could you say a little i 4 bit-about what the site access training involves? E What really is involved in that course? -t 6 MR. RAGLIN: It's what the utilities 7-typically call nuclear general employee training. 8 It's.the.part.of the training which is 'not site 9 specific such that when the individuals go on site all 10 they need to do is get to site specific stuff in order 11 to get unrestricted access. It includes dressing out 12 in N3C clothing. It includes the standard type of 13 briefings that would be given by the licensees at 14 their facility if our people needed to get the same 15 thing there. IG COMMISSIONER ROGERS: Okay. Do you have any 17 special training or have you thought about offering 18 any special training for inspecticrs of fuel 19 fabrication facilities? 20 Mp. RAGLIN: There's an effort along those 21 lines that's planned. It may be within the next 22 fiscal year and I'm no sure when it's going to end up. 23 But ' that 's one of the areas that was identified by 24 certain NMSS technical groups as a part of this phased 25 plan and, yes, it's on the drawing board. NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

L,. bc 1. 49 k: 1 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: Well, I've picked up 2 some indications in just my travels around that that's 3 an area that'we maybe should be paying more attention '4_ to,. particularly with respect to questions such as 5 approaching criticality, that a lot of misconceptions 6 on the part of some of the licensees themselves, or 7-there have been in the past, as to what is safe-- ~8 what are safe distances and so on and so forth and 9 not -- and being approached from a rather 10 unsophisticated point of view that actually have come 11 rather close to creating a critical situation when 12 they thought they were making it less than critical. -13 In other

words, greater distance isn't 14 necessarily moving you away from criticality.

It may 15 be moving you to criticality under certain conditions. 16 It just seems to me that maybe there's some 17 issues there that we're not -- we haven't been quite 18 enough alert to and trying to include some training on 19 these things from an engineering point of view. I'm 20 not thinking so much from the point of view of health 21 physics, although that would obviously be an important 22 part of it. But maybe from the standpoint of reactor 23 engineering. 24 MR. RAGLIN: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: And I would hope that C NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

,.g. 50 l ~if we do have a program that it would at least have 2 some part addrer, sed to questions -of geometry and 3 criticality. 4 MR. RAGLIN: Criticality was an area ' that. 5 was identified also in the NMSS plan and we have a .6 couple of leads on some. criticality' courses. In all 7 probability, based on the relatively small numbers of 1 8 people, these would be arranged through slots to an 9 ' existing course. But we have a couple of hot leads in '10 that area. .11 MR. THOMPSON: Maybe Mr. Glen Sjoblom, who 12 is responsible for part of that area in NMSS, can l 13 address the point. He is also, I believe, on the 14 MR. SJOBLOM: Criticality safety is an 15 extremely important, though somewhat unique, area.and l l 16 we and the industry as well have a problem with having 1 l '17 fully qualified people. We do have an existing-18 training program that is available through two 19 different lengths of courses at the University of 20 Mexico

and, in

fact, some of the NRC senior 21 criticality safety people participate in the teaching 22 of that course.

Two people in NMSS participate in l 23 that. l 24 We have been l at one of the recent 25 workshops we had with the fuel facility licensees in i b 1 l i NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. j_ Washington, D.C. 20005 [ (20$)__8$6-00$$_____ _____ a )

L 1-(. 51' l May of this year, we in fact had an item on the agenda 2 there. And as a result of talking this issue up, the 3 University of Tennessee has-established'a sub-element 4-in their nuclear engineering program like a major in 5 criticality safety. They intend to run five or six 6 people through that. It is an extremely-important 7 subject. We do not ever want to have another 8 inadvertent criticality accident in our program. 9 And so, we are not currently' working really 10 directly with TTC on that because' there is this 11 available

course, but as Ken mentioned, that's 12 something that is for the future.

13 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: I hope I'm not taking 14 too much time, but I've got a little list of things 15 here that I'd like to hear about. The other is non-16 power reactor technology. How many times has that 17 course been given and who attended it? 18 MR. RAGLIN: It's just been given this one 19 time. 20 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: Given once. How many 21 people and who were they? 22 MR. RAGLIN: Mostly

well, there's a

23 distribution. It was mostly regional people and some 24 from headquarters. I think the class had 15 to 18 25 people in it. It was given within the last quarter. C NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

L4 L-7,. - -, f t I, j l I 52 l, The primary presentations were given by INEL and Les ,1 2 Constable of the Region IV staff gave~NRC perspectives 3 on one day during the course, most of that day.= It's 4 something that's established-now and so would 5 logically be presented on a. regular basis perhaps once 6 a year. 7 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: And just. one more .8 comment and then I'll back away because I want to give 9 other people a chance. 10 It does seem to me that your risk based-11' perspective is a very important initiative. That's 12 really important to try to weave that into our 13 program. It: certainly is much more the approach that 14 we're all taking on looking at nuclear issues. I 15 think to try to put that in as a component of all of 16 your courses is really very, very important and I 17 think it's a marvelous initiative. 18 Okay. Thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN CARR: Commissioner Curtiss? 20 COMMISSIONER CURTISS: I just have one 21 question. In the area of maintenance, are we doing 22 anything to provide specialized training in that area 23 and in particular now as we've got the maintenance 24 team inspections out on the road and participants, 25 different teams and different individuals and perhaps NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

g b 4^', r. (^ 53 l-with different-interpretations of the way the TI 1' 2-operates, what to look for and how'to look for it? Is' jf .3 there.anything that we're doing or ought to do in that. 4 area to ensure that what we get back from the team 5 inspections now over the next several months will, in 6 fact, be based upon a uniform interpretation of wh'at 7 we're looking for? 8 MR. RAGLIN: We are doing - certain things 9 that relate to maintenance. I don't know that=I could .10 - closely align these with the maintenance team 11 inspections yet. For example, we do - offer motorized-12-valve operator training. We do offer emergency diesel 13 generator training. In the - last meeting of the 14 training advisory group, there was some discussion 15 there by the NRR representative about some upcoming 16 training in the electrical area in support of the 17 maintenance team inspections. We haven't gotten to 18 the point of quantifying those needs and proceeding 19 with them. Those are some examples. 20 We don't have any hard needs -- from the 21 training center perspective, we don't have any hard i 22 needs. that have been identified other than the ones 23 that are being provided right now. It's something we 24 see as coming. It's still a little fuzzy to us right 25 now. {. - NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

p n. L- ? i 75 4.; : i 54 1 COMMISSIONER CURTISS: But'the sense is at 2: this point it's just a preliminary sense that'as you 3 l ook. : a t. the team inspections. that ~ are coming in, it 4-may be' comparable.to~what we saw in the early days.of-5 the SALP reports where the results and ' the - approach - . G' and what you're looking'for and how you're looking'for 7 it may depend more on the personality and. makeup. of-B the team..with the-consequent result .that it's d-difficult. to compare team inspections from region to .10 region and' from team to team. I wonder if it might 11 not make sense to take a look at what can be done 12 there. 13 MR. THOMPSON: Yes. We'll take a look at 14 get back to the Commission just kind of outlining the 15 training and the programs that we plan to have in 16 place for those teams that go out. 17 COMMISSIONER CURTISS: That's all I have. 18 CHAIRMAN CARR: On the time that you spend 19 doing inspections for other people as part of 20 inspection teams, do they reimburse you for your time? 21 How do you account for that in your budgeting because 22 I gather that's kind of random? ( i 23 MR. RAGLIN: Within the budget process we've I 24 developed a model that can predict how many course ( i 25 . weeks of training we can provide with a given size F NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 _ _ _ _ _ - =

- g ;- - ~~ - I + 1 . \\ 2 I staff and it make certain. assumptions. Included in 2 those assumptions are the time.that is associated with L 3 the various inspections.

4 I will have to admit, however, that the time 5

that we have in fact devoted to the diagnostic 6 evaluation teams has greatly exceeded what we' had y 7 assumed in the labor area. 8 CHAIRMAN CARR: So you can update your 9 model. 10 MR. RAGLIN: A little bit. 11 MR. JORDAN: I think I'd make a comment 12 about that. There is clearly a positive side to that, {'3 13 to having the instructors out in an environment with 14 inspectors -- 15 CHAIRMAN CARR: If you have to pay him, 16 you're going to turn around and charge him for 17 educating him on your trips. 18 MR. JORDAN: It's sort of like you pay them 19 now and pay them later. Within our program office, we 20 believe it fits and is beneficial. 21 CHAIRMAN CARR: Okay. Well, we ought to 22 have some consistent way of figuring out how much of 23 this we're going to spend because we've got to get it 24 into the real budget. You know? j 25 MR. JORDAN: And I think maybe the point I C NEAL R. GROSS f 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

74 l.* 56 1 - should be made that we're getting training support 2 from the.'other offices..For instance, severe accident 3 training, the Office of Research is actually putting 4 on part of the course presentation. So there is a 5 reasonable interchange and.the NMSS also provides some 6 training. So, we feel that there's a reasonable-7 exchange there that probably comes out pretty close. 8 CHAIRMAN CARR: Well, as we keep adding all 9 that training in there though, we can't keep taking it 10 out of hides. Sooner or later we've got to account 'll for it and budget for it and make sure that we do 12 that. n: 13 MR. JORDAN: Yes, sir. ' (b 14 CHAIRMAN CARR: How about when we train 15 Illinois and Mexico, who pays for that? 16 MR. JORDAN: We do. 17 MR. RAGLIN: The travel is paid by the host 18 country or, in this case, the State of Illinois. We 19 were just able to accommodate both of those cases. 20 CHAIRMAN CARR: You provide the people -- 21 MR. RAGLIN: Yes. 22 CHAIRMAN CARR: -- and the training. 23 MR. THOMPSON: I think that probably was 24 addresced in the report about typically they'll.have 25 spaces available and we'll accommodate them to the i NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 _____--_________-_____-_____-_-______-______________-__________--_-________a

.j. 57 .(' I extent'that we can. 2 CHAIRMAN CARR: Right.

Yes, it's not a 3

question of-when they. send-them down there, it's a 4 -question of when you're going. You travel to Mexico, 5 I assume. 6 MR. THOMPSON: Right. 7 MR. RAGLIN: They pay the travel. 8' CHAIRMAN CARR: When'you briefed us back in, 9 I guess it was early or last fall ' and you sent us a 10 memo then later on in October on materials training. 11 You said there were a lot of courses set up but there 12 were still four going to be set up at the technien) 13 training center. Is that the ones you're talking 14 about #or materials inspection that are going to be 15 set up there, four more courses? 16 MR. RAGLIN: It's probably more than four,- 17 more now. We know a lot more about where we need to 18 be in the materials curriculum than we did when we 19 last briefed in January of '88. So, what we were l 20 referring to is definitely now incorporated into what 21 we're planning now. But there's some new things that 1 22 have also been added. 23 CHAIRMAN CARR: I guess my curiosity is 24 we've got qualified inspectors. Are we requiring 25 those inspectors to take these. additional courses that C NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

R. 58 ~ l might not have been around when they qualified, to 1 2 keep their qualification up to date or current or. 3-whatever? 4 MR. THOMPSON: Let me ask Glen Sjoblom, 5. who's been working directly with the-regions on 6-establishing the basic-qualifications to respond to .7 that question. 8 Glen? 9 MR. SJOBLOM: Let me give an example of'n 10 course that would be in~a category like you're talking 11 about, the irradiators. We have underway in TTC some 12 development of a contracted for course to teach people m-13 about the large pool type irradiators. That is going 14 to be a subcontracted course. So that's one example. 15 A course where we've had -- 16 CHAIRMAN CARR:

Well, it's not the course

-17 I'm as much interested in as what are we going to 18 require the inspectors to attend? 19 MR. SJOBLOM: We definitely would - for 20 those who haven't had a sufficient basis for believing 21 they have a good understanding of that technology, we 22 would require them to take that course. It is not 23 going to be necessarily a hard and fast rule because 24 some people could have a come on knowledge of that 25 technology through years of their experience. But the E NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 1 (202) 234-4433 __:_-__=_=_=_:_=

'~ b 59 k 1 intent is,

yes, as we add new

courses, we would 2

require those people needing that to go back and take 3 those courses. 4 MR. THOMPSON: But generally, I suppose, the 5 section leader and the branch chiefs in the regions or G headquarters would evaluate the individual's training 7 need. Typically we do it on an annual banis and say, 1 8 " Hey, this course is now available. It wasn't 9 available previously. We have a need for you to make 10 sure you have your background in that area." So 1 11 think that's the way it would be. 12 CHAIRMAN CARR: Okay. 13 MR. JORDAN: And maybe I could make a point 14 there that I think in the past 18 months we've changed 15 from responding to individual's training desires and 16 changed to accommodating the Agency's training needs. 17 CHAIRMAN CARR: That's what I'm looking for. 18 MR. JORDAN: This being a substantial 19 difference, yes. 20 CHAIRMAN CARR: The other thing is are we 21 able to accommodate all the people that we need to be 22 trained, or are we -- I guess, are we training hours 23 limited or are we budget limited? 24 MR. RAGLIN: I feel comfortable that we're 25 essentially meeting the need. There were some C NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

T- .,.. 41, di 00 LJ 1 adjustments made about. a year and a half

ago, 2-particularly in the reactor technology area.

We had 3 what appeared to be a peak coming and we adjusted'the 4 class size-.for the full course series classroom S courses from 18 to 24 on a trial basis. I'm pleased 6' to report that our evaluation was that it didn't 7-deteriorate the course and we were able to continue 8' that. l 9 So what we expect for those courses is that .i 10 normally we'll have 18 people, and we typically - do, 11 but we allow up to 24. And so by making that one 12

shift, we're able to accommodate some peaks and

-,1 ;q 13 valleys in the program. Many of the courses will be 14 oversubscribed and people will have to wait until the 15 next presentation of the course. But 'looking on a 16 yearly basis, I'm comfortable that we're presently 17 meeting the needs that have been identified. 18 CHAIRMAN CARR: We don't have a large 19 backlog of people needing training we're not able to 20 accommodate, then? 21 MR. RAGLIN: Let me throw in one more 1 l 22 qualifier.

Now, this headquarters training and 23 qualification program development, one of the things 24 that's still going on by the Program Office is, now 25 that the program has been defined, is to look at the

.b NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

g ' :.~., s 61 1 incumbents'and make these' decisions. Does this person 2 have enough' here, ~ does he need tc.' go-t'o.this or 3 training? And I haven't seen the numbers yet from 4 NRR, and it's such a big office that that potentially 5 could change my answer on that question. But right-G now, I'm comfortable'that we're-meeting the needs. 7 CHAIRMAN CARR: Well, keep an e'ye on it so 8 we can stay informed. 9 As I wander around, I get lots of comments 10 about the inspectors and their -- let's say their non-11 similarity in inspection techniques and processes and 12 opinions. And I understand we have a course down 13 there that you teach in the initial inspector training (i. 14 area that teaches philosophy of inspection, .or 15 somebody teaches it. It's your training. 16 MR. SPESSARD: The fundamentals of 17 inspection course. 18 MR. RAGLIN: Right. 19 CHAIRMAN CARR: And somewhere in that, we 20 give the NRC phi 30 sophy, I assume, of inspection. 21 As far as we know, have all our inspectors 22 taken that course? 23 MR. RAGLIN: Yes. I think that's a very 24 good assumption. That's one of the things that's 25 specifically listed in the regional qualification t NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

c., q 62 h I journals and in the similar document for the '2 headquarters position. That is a course. that there 3 was a significant Agency effort to revise about two 4 years ago to standardize, and it's been given several 5 times in'the new format. So, we feel comfortable that G the same information is being transmitted independent 7. of which. region it is, and it's been given several 8 :- times in headquarters, several sessions for the NRR 9 staff. 10 CHAIRMAN CARR: And do we have a requirement 11 for a refresher training in that aren? 12 MR. THOMPSON: Not in the fundamentals. We 13 do have a requirement for refresher training, or what 14 are called " continuing training" for the resident 15 inspector types and I guess our inspectors. But I 16 don't believe it goes back over that course. 17 MR. SPESSARD: Not for the fundamentals, no. 18 CHAIRMAN CARR: I understand that's only a 19 couple hours or something, the re-fundamentals or -- 20 MR. SPESSARD: No, sir, that's three -- ~ 21 CHAIRMAN CARR: Or the philosophy portion of 22 that fundamentals is what I'm really worried about. I 23 sean, do we inspect by the module and ignore the fire 24 because it's not on the check-off list, or do we look 25 for the safe -- I guess, how do you inspect? NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

[ - s f _, :. 7, 63 - {tt 1 MR. THOMPSON: Safety versus compliance: 2 philosophy. 3 CHAIRMAN CARR: Tha't kind. of thing. 4-Presumably, that's where this philosophy is~put out. 5 MR. THOMPSON: Right. 6 CHAIRMAN CARR: My concern is it's'not'put 7 out the same to everybody and we don't refresh that 8 philosophy at a routine basis. So,'take a look at 9 that, will you? 10 MR. THOMPSON: We'll look into.that, because 11 I think that is an important area. I know that we --- 12 CHAIRMAN CARR: I'm trying to get 13 consistency -- 14 MR. THOMPSON: Right. 15 CHAIRMAN CARR: in the residents 16 throughout the -- so that we don't get, well, one guy 17 want's to do this or one region wants to do that or 18 your headquarters guy comes out and he wants a 19 different thing than somebody else does. 20 In the manuals you talked about and in the -21 guides for procedural inspection and all that stuff 22 that we worked over a couple of years ago, is there 23 any follow-up to make sure those things are being used 24 consistently? Do we audit that program? Who audits 25 training? Anybody? (, NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 i I i

~g G4 '((t-1 MR. RAGLIN: We don't specifically audit it, 2 but .we do get feedback from everyone of those 3 fundamentals.of inspection courses. We end up issuing 4 certificates on them and we keep heavily involved with 5 their we know that the new modules are being used 6 uniformly in.the regions. As far as the -- 7 CHAIRMAN CARR: How do you know the. regional 8 program conforms to your suggested program in the 9. manual? 10 MR. RAGLIN: Because the regional managers 11 who are giving the presentations are using the same 12-lesson plans -- 13 CHAIRMAN CARR: Okay. 14 MR. RAGLIN: -- that were developed, and it 15 was -- when the major change occurred about'two years 16 ago, there was a wide developmental effort.that was 17 then circulated for comment through the regions and 18 program offices, and then everybody bought into it. 19 And we feel comfortable that it's consistent on that 20

basis, because the same lesson

plans, the same 21 presentations during the fundamentals of inspection 22 course.

23 CHAIRMAN CARR: Okay. Any other questions? 24

Well, I

certainly join my fellow l 25 Commissioners in thanking you for the presentation. I NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. j Washington, D.C. 20005 ) (202) 234-4433 j

~ } 65 1 think~.it's been a very informative-briefing and 2 training is one of the keys to doing our work right. 3 The programs seem to be responsive to the needs that 4 we've .got and I'm interested -that you've got-5 specialized training going on now, and the future 6 looks bright as far as the kinds of things you're 7 getting into. Certainly, upgrading our simulators ~and l8. getting state-of-the-art type response is important. 9 I would encourage continued efforts .to 10 improve training for fuel cycle and material 11 inspectors, because I feel like that's. some of our 12 weakest points. And I say I note that we may need 13 periodic refresher training in the area of NRC '(?. 14 inspection philosophy. I'm trying to weed out those 15 few people who may have their own idea of how to 16 inspect, rather than our idea. So, I urge the staff 17 to continue seeking and making-improvements in 18 training quality and diversity offered to our staff, 19 as well as to other people we can. 20 Any other comments? If

not, we stand 21 adjourned.

22 (Whereupon, at 11:30 a.m., the above-23 entitled matter was concluded.) 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS 1023 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

p g-i L : a1 L.- L.( CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER. U This is to certify that the attached events of a meeting of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission entitled: L TITLE OF MEETING: l-BRIEFING ON STATUS OF NRC TECHNICAL TRAINING PROGRAM PLACE OF MEETING: ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND DATE OF MEETING: SEPTEMBER 14, 1989 1 were transcribed by me. I further certify that said' transcription is accurate.and complete, to the best of my ability, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing events. Ak>1/ v ~ - s Reporter's name: Peter Lynch b e e NEAL R. GROSS COURT REP 0aTER$ AND TRANSCRIBER 5 1323 kHODE t$ LAND AVENUE, N.W. <=> ru+33 w Asun To N. o.C. ooos <m> m =

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• S TRANSMITTAL TO:

I Document Control Desk, 016 Phillips ADVANCED CDPY TO: The Public Document Room /d/3/f9 DATE: 5 FROM: SECY Correspondence & Records Branch ~ E' Attached are copies of a Commission meeting transcript and related meeting ll document (s). They are being forwarded for entry on the Daily Accession List and i j. placement in the Public Document Room. No other distribution is requested or jl required. Meeting

Title:

E b % /0C & & #1 N W ]-M Aru-od f %Ai /hr,ss-,l ~,, //9 fh Open Closed Meeting Date: i i Item Description *: Copies f )_ Advanced DCS

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1. TRANSCRIPT 1

1 Ld l ANow-c u Ah a t/ 2. 3. 3 -l;. 3 3 = 3!, 5. 3., 3 3 3E 3 " A 3 ~ [O I PDR is advanced one copy of each document, two of each SECY paper. C&R Branch files the original transcript, with attachments, withcut SECY papers. 13R33 _ _ _ -}}